The Megyn Kelly Show - Could Cringe Kamala Really Replace Biden, and False Media Narratives on Immunity Ruling, with Mike Davis and Andrew Klavan ｜ Ep. 828

00:00:00.420 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:11.980 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.300 Today, the fallout after the Supreme Court's landmark decision on presidential immunity.

00:00:22.180 The left is in a full-on meltdown over this decision.

00:00:26.120 Notwithstanding the fact that it pretty much precludes any prosecution of their guy, Joe Biden, when he leaves office, all they can think about is Donald Trump.

00:00:36.800 So just how epic is this decision?

00:00:40.760 Who better to ask than Mike Davis of the Article 3 Project?

00:00:44.700 He's been on The MK Show many times.

00:00:48.840 I've got to say, Mike, predicting this exact result.

00:00:54.160 You continue to be right in your legal predictions on this show.

00:00:58.260 We don't have Dave here today, but I'm sure he'd tip the hat to you as well.

00:01:02.480 So what's your reaction to the decision that came out yesterday?

00:01:06.720 Predictable and predicted for many, many, many months because the alternative to what the Supreme Court held in this Trump presidential immunity case would be the destruction of our Constitution,

00:01:21.180 the destruction of the presidency, and therefore the destruction of our country.

00:01:27.380 Think about this.

00:01:28.100 If a president of the United States is not immune from criminal prosecution for his official acts, not personal misconduct, his official acts,

00:01:38.460 you're going to see the Trump 47 Justice Department prosecuting President Obama for capital murder for his extrajudicial drone strike on two American citizens, including a minor.

00:01:53.200 You're going to see the Trump 47 Justice Department prosecuting President Biden for his illegal mass parole of over 10 million illegal immigrants into our country and the resulting rapes and kidnappings and murders and other violent crime.

00:02:09.600 You're going to see the Trump 47 Justice Department prosecute George W. Bush for lying about weapons of mass destruction and the resulting hundreds of thousands of deaths in Iraq.

00:02:22.260 This was a monumental decision by the Supreme Court of the United States authored by Chief Justice John Roberts, not exactly a MAGA warrior,

00:02:32.540 because the Chief Justice rightly understood this is so much bigger than Donald Trump or any other president or candidate.

00:02:40.600 This is about the presidency and therefore our country.

00:02:43.620 All right.

00:02:44.680 So this is you, by the way.

00:02:46.180 I just want to give you the credit that you're due back in.

00:02:50.340 Let me see.

00:02:51.020 What was the date of this?

00:02:53.060 Hold on.

00:02:54.340 It's January.

00:02:55.840 Episode 695, predicting what the Supreme Court would do.

00:03:00.420 Look, the Supreme Court, if the D.C.

00:03:02.520 Circuit does not hold that the president of the United States at a baseline level,

00:03:08.220 any president has immunity from criminal prosecution.

00:03:11.500 For what that president does in his official capacity, the Supreme Court is going to have to take that case.

00:03:17.260 The reason the courts have not established that presidents are immune criminally is because no president has ever been charged with a crime

00:03:25.000 until the Democrats brought this unprecedented lawfare against President Trump.

00:03:30.540 So the issue is going to be, does the Supreme Court establish at a baseline minimum that the president of the United States is immune from criminal prosecution for his official acts

00:03:41.480 or the outer perimeter of his official acts, like the other two branches of government?

00:03:45.920 They can decide that very narrowly that, yes, the president of the United States is immune criminally from prosecution for his official conduct.

00:03:54.400 Why would the president not be immune criminally, but he's immune civilly?

00:03:57.440 It doesn't make sense.

00:04:00.320 I mean, literally every word of that was just found by the majority, six to three, every word of that.

00:04:06.060 Immune for his official acts, including the outer perimeter.

00:04:09.520 The outer perimeter would be an area in which he would have a presumption of immunity that they would then have to test if they wanted to.

00:04:16.960 A prosecutor in court tried to pierce the immunity by proving it didn't apply in this particular case.

00:04:21.640 And only clearly unofficial acts will be treated as not immune.

00:04:27.720 This is I have to say you've been saying it since longer than January.

00:04:30.360 From the beginning, you've been saying this exact thing.

00:04:32.860 But now there's an absolute meltdown.

00:04:35.000 And something you said in there was very important because the left keeps saying the Supreme Court erred here in not considering this case, the Trump case.

00:04:45.800 They need to consider how extraordinary what Trump did was, as opposed to just issuing down a ruling that would apply to the presidency in general and its powers.

00:04:55.440 He's such an egregious character.

00:04:57.260 He crossed such egregious legal lines in their view.

00:05:00.360 This court erred by not considering what he did.

00:05:04.420 And what you said in that answer, I think, is the response, which is, no, what you guys have done is what's truly extraordinary here.

00:05:14.680 And it's what the court was responding to.

00:05:17.480 Absolutely.

00:05:20.440 This is overreach by President Biden and Attorney General Merrick Garland and Jack Smith, who is who has an amazing track record of getting reversed by the Supreme Court of the United States and his henchmen.

00:05:35.840 Jay Brad, these are the people who politicized and weaponized the Justice Department to go after Biden's political enemy because they fear they can't beat Trump on November 5th, 2024.

00:05:49.600 So they they've tried to bankrupt him.

00:05:51.920 They've tried to throw him off the ballot.

00:05:54.600 They're trying to throw him in prison for the rest of his life.

00:05:58.020 They're even talking about drone striking him on these various left wing shows. 0.99

00:06:02.780 These people are insane.

00:06:04.520 And guess what, guys, when you lose Chief Justice John Roberts, again, not exactly a MAGA warrior by any stretch of the imagination, you know, you've lost the game. 0.60

00:06:15.800 OK, so now let's go through some of the outlandish scenarios that the left is trying to tell us will happen as a result of this decision.

00:06:25.360 They I'll just I mean, I'll skip like the more egregious people.

00:06:29.380 But here's one quoting an elected DNC member from California, David Atkins.

00:06:36.000 So if President Biden declared the Republican Party, a terrorist organization and ordered drone strikes on Mar-a-Lago as an official act, he would have immunity.

00:06:47.820 Right. Those are the new rules.

00:06:49.460 I mean, I realize a piece of this is facetious because I think even the left doesn't think that, you know, President Biden would do this or President Trump in response.

00:06:59.020 But what about that?

00:07:00.100 Because using the military is 100 percent within official duties.

00:07:05.240 And this court has also ruled you're not allowed to look at motive, you're not allowed to look at the motive behind the president's act.

00:07:13.840 So let's be honest.

00:07:15.340 Is it true that that that could happen, that President Biden could say the Republican Party is a terrorist organization and order drone strikes at Mar-a-Lago and not be criminally prosecuted for it?

00:07:27.880 That's not true.

00:07:29.440 And I mean, remember, President Obama did order extrajudicial drone strikes of two American citizens, including a minor.

00:07:38.620 He killed a minor.

00:07:40.180 And they did this after seeking advice from David Barron, who was the head of the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel at the time, OLC, which is the general counsel for the executive branch.

00:07:53.180 So they got David Barron's input on this drone strike.

00:07:57.820 So David Barron's now a judge on the First Circuit Court of Appeals in Boston.

00:08:03.760 He's a federal appellate judge. 1.00

00:08:05.060 His wife is a loudmouth, pain in the ass CNN contributor. 0.99

00:08:09.580 And can the Trump 47 Justice Department now charge Judge David Barron, along with President Obama, for this conspiracy to murder two Americans? 0.99

00:08:19.240 Do they really want to go down this path as Democrats?

00:08:21.340 Because guess what?

00:08:22.880 When Trump's back in office, we can play this game if they want to play this game.

00:08:28.560 President Biden, when they change his diaper this morning and feed him his pudding, he should be very thankful for the fact that the Supreme Court held that the President of the United States is immune from criminal prosecution.

00:08:39.800 Because after that debate, I hope he understands he's not going to be the president after January 20th, 2025.

00:08:46.620 And does he want crazy people like Mike Davis prosecuting him?

00:08:51.100 This that's the thing. 0.63

00:08:52.060 This applies to both sides.

00:08:53.100 But I am kind of I'm a little intrigued, I have to say, with the notion that maybe this guy is right, Mike.

00:09:01.160 And I'm not sure how I feel about it.

00:09:02.700 I mean, to me, it seems like that you could come up with such an outlandish designation in the course of your official duties.

00:09:09.240 And and then, you know, the U.S. military would not do this.

00:09:13.300 I mean, they're not allowed to follow illegal orders, but just the act of saying they're terrorists and I declared so and then ordering the military to do it.

00:09:22.440 But I think he would be criminally immune.

00:09:25.740 I think now in the wake of this decision, tell me if I'm wrong, the remedy is impeachment.

00:09:31.860 He he will be thrown out of office and he will be stopped from making such outlandish decisions again.

00:09:37.080 But he will not be criminally prosecuted because it seems to me the Supreme Court said we're just not going to be a banana republic.

00:09:43.660 We are not going to allow criminal prosecutions of a president or virtually anything done in his official capacity.

00:09:49.800 That's the nature of the executive branch.

00:09:52.440 I disagree. So think about this.

00:09:54.780 The Supreme Court said that when you're dealing with your core constitutional powers as the president of the United States, you're absolutely immune, meaning you can't be prosecuted.

00:10:07.180 You can't be questioned about it.

00:10:08.460 But when you're dealing with the president's other official acts, his his his powers that flow from statute versus the Constitution, he would be presumptively immune.

00:10:19.920 But that presumption would be overcome.

00:10:21.700 You'd have a mini trial and evidentiary hearing on the hearing on the issue of immunity.

00:10:27.440 And the judge would say, OK, you're are you acting within your core constitutional powers?

00:10:32.980 I don't see in the Constitution where the president is authorized to drone strike Americans.

00:10:39.100 Right. And so drone strike Americans on American soil.

00:10:43.180 So you're not repelling. This is not the commander in chief clause.

00:10:46.940 This is not the president's war powers under the Constitution.

00:10:50.380 The president's not repelling a sudden attack, which is the case law on the war powers.

00:10:57.540 And so you're looking at the president's statutory powers and under the president's statutory powers.

00:11:03.280 The president could raise immunity as an initial matter.

00:11:07.280 And then there would be a mini trial and evidentiary hearing to figure out whether the government can rebut that presumption of immunity.

00:11:14.560 And the standard they use is the Fitzgerald standard, the Nixon case from 40 years ago where the Supreme Court held that the president is immune from civil prosecution for his official acts.

00:11:27.700 And so the government could rebut that presumption of immunity by showing that the prosecution does not endanger the intrusion on the authority of the of the and the functions of the executive branch, meaning the executive branch doesn't have the power to kill Americans on American soil because they disagree with them politically.

00:11:47.240 Let's talk about something they do have the power to do.

00:11:50.200 That's the pardon power.

00:11:51.920 This came up over and over, came up in the oral argument, came up in the decision to.

00:11:55.460 And one of the questions is because that's definitely within the president's official constitutional acts.

00:12:02.160 So it would be granted absolute immunity under this majority ruling.

00:12:06.460 And the question is, OK, but what if the president took a bribe in exchange for the pardon?

00:12:12.780 Would that be prosecutable in the wake of the Trump decision?

00:12:17.660 Yeah, because under the Nixon framework that they're extending to the criminal context, the civil context, they're extending to the criminal context.

00:12:24.360 They've already held that bribery is not part of your official duties.

00:12:27.700 Bribery is specifically carved out of the president's official duties in the Constitution.

00:12:33.620 OK, but here's where it gets weird.

00:12:34.900 And I made a reference to it earlier.

00:12:36.780 The court also held that not only would these official acts be immune, either absolutely immune or with a presumption of immunity,

00:12:44.980 but they cannot even be used, these acts, as evidence against a president who's getting prosecuted for his unofficial acts.

00:12:57.320 So in this case, the Trump case, they claim the whole spake electors thing, that was all a scheme.

00:13:03.740 And in order to present it to a jury, this came up in an oral argument.

00:13:06.920 In order to present it to a jury, we're going to need to talk about what are probably going to be unofficial acts,

00:13:12.740 maybe dealing with state electors and also official acts.

00:13:16.840 Trump's conversations with his attorney general about, you know, challenging the vote and what he can do and what the attorney generals looked into.

00:13:23.700 And this court said you cannot do that.

00:13:25.800 You are not going to be able to get into the the officially immune conduct as evidence in a case going after him for his non immune conduct.

00:13:35.260 So back to my bribery example, you'd have a case where if you prosecuted him, you'd say, so, Mr. President, you accept a accepted a bribe.

00:13:45.480 Yes. In exchange for what? Objection sustained.

00:13:49.100 It can't tell them that it was a pardon that was on the on the line.

00:13:52.980 It's an oddity, but I think that's the correct legal analysis.

00:13:56.940 Am I wrong?

00:13:58.260 No, because there's a carve out under for bribery that so that there's a again, there's a constant that the bribery is.

00:14:04.560 But no, but the carve out allows the prosecution for bribery, but it will not allow a jury to hear why the bribe was paid.

00:14:13.060 I don't think it goes that far because there's a carve out for bribery in the Constitution.

00:14:17.500 So you have to be able to prove the elements of bribery.

00:14:20.760 Right. And so you'd have to show the quid pro quo and that the bribery is.

00:14:24.580 I don't think you're right.

00:14:26.160 I know you're right on everything, but on this particular thing, I think you're wrong because the court made very clear they don't want evidence of the official acts.

00:14:32.880 Anything that cannot come in as evidence.

00:14:34.660 And Amy Coney Barrett wrote an opinion concurring with the overall decision, but saying, I disagree with this piece of it.

00:14:40.780 You should allow it as evidence.

00:14:41.920 We have evidentiary rules that would allow the jury to be instructed.

00:14:45.980 We're allowing the fact that it was in exchange for a pardon to come in, but not to prove that he's guilty of the bribery.

00:14:51.940 Just so you have context, but you can't use the fact that he was exercising his pardon power against him.

00:14:56.720 That's what she wanted the court to rule. 1.00

00:14:58.400 But the majority said no.

00:14:59.600 Well, we might have that very case come before the court after President Biden leaves office with his pardon after his family took over $20 million.

00:15:09.360 It seems like every Biden family member was on the Chinese and Russian and Ukrainian and Kazakhstan and every other dump around the world, corrupt third world country around the world. 0.81

00:15:19.380 It seemed like every Biden, except for the six-year-old granddaughter who they don't claim, who Dr. Jill, the loving grandmother, doesn't claim.

00:15:26.760 So, you know, maybe we'll have that very case before the Supreme Court make.

00:15:31.520 And I would love to be the special counsel on that case if that office is still constitutional after this is all done.

00:15:37.420 And maybe we'll find out whether the evidence of bribery can come in when the president burdens himself or how, you know, that could be an amazing case for the Supreme Court to decide.

00:15:49.660 And I just wonder if these three liberal justices on the Supreme Court who dissented and all these commentators and left-wing hacks on MSNBC and other left-wing shows,

00:16:00.720 I just wonder if they would take this same principled position they're taking right now if the Trump 47 Justice Department prosecutes President Biden for pardoning himself after a bribery.

00:16:12.620 You're absolutely right.

00:16:14.060 I want to get to some of the reaction.

00:16:15.300 Let's start with the current president of the United States, Joe Biden, who, in what I thought was just a totally, totally inappropriate White House address, comes out last night.

00:16:26.480 I mean, let's face it.

00:16:27.220 What he was really trying to do was improve his catastrophic situation right now in the wake of that debate and act like this, the senior, the elder statesman, you know, criticizing the Supreme Court from the White House and getting into President Trump's criminal trials.

00:16:42.800 And in a way that was just totally inappropriate.

00:16:45.800 Stay out of it.

00:16:46.520 You're trying to look like you don't have anything to do with it.

00:16:48.820 You know, the jig is up.

00:16:49.960 But here's just a bit of what the president said last night on this ruling.

00:16:53.860 This nation was founded on the principle that there are no kings in America.

00:16:58.860 Each, each of us is equal before the law.

00:17:02.340 No one, no one is above the law.

00:17:05.480 Not even the president of the United States.

00:17:07.440 But today's Supreme Court decision on presidential immunity, that fundamentally changed.

00:17:15.360 For all, for all practical purposes, today's decision almost certainly means that there are virtually no limits on what a president can do.

00:17:24.220 This is a fundamentally new principle.

00:17:26.880 And it's a dangerous precedent.

00:17:28.580 Because the power of the office will no longer be constrained by the law, even including the Supreme Court of the United States.

00:17:38.700 So do we agree with the president?

00:17:41.260 I think that, you know, there, I don't hate President Obama.

00:17:45.520 I disagree with him because I, you know, I just, I actually think President Obama is a personally a good person. 0.97

00:17:51.540 I think President Biden is a wretched human being. 0.92

00:17:53.940 And I think he is so destructive to the office of the president and to the presidency. 1.00

00:17:59.440 And he's so selfish.

00:18:01.200 He doesn't care about his country at all.

00:18:04.460 He doesn't care about his family. 0.89

00:18:05.780 He has his drug-addled son as the bag man for the Biden family corruption. 0.84

00:18:11.260 He's taken inappropriate showers with his daughter, Ashley, according to his diary.

00:18:15.920 He's always grooming kids on TV. 1.00

00:18:18.660 I think the guy is a total scumbag, and he is the most destructive force in the White House we've ever seen. 1.00

00:18:24.640 He's an evil man. 1.00

00:18:25.840 And we just see this on display right there. 0.85

00:18:27.900 How can he get up there and say that, pretend like nobody is above the law and that the Supreme Court's at fault after he politicized and weaponized his Justice Department,

00:18:38.360 along with these other Biden Democrat prosecutors around the country, to go after his political enemy?

00:18:44.600 These are republic-ending tactics, what Joe Biden has done. 0.90

00:18:50.640 And the Supreme Court had to step up with this presidential immunity case because they were pushed so far by this corrupt, deranged man named Joe Biden. 0.91

00:19:01.200 I mean, that's the thing, a harsh assessment by any measure.

00:19:03.560 But your point that he's the one responsible for this ruling, the Democrats are the ones responsible for this ruling, is entirely valid. 1.00

00:19:13.120 The reason we've had to have the Supreme Court step in and say, we're not doing this in America,

00:19:19.680 the founders did not envision a world in which presidents leave office and get subjected to criminal prosecutions by their successor president or his administration,

00:19:30.560 is because they crossed the line never before crossed.

00:19:33.640 And now you hear them saying, well, even on The New York Times, The Daily this morning,

00:19:36.980 well, that's because we have an unprecedented president in Donald Trump who crossed lines never crossed before.

00:19:42.940 OK, so we've never had a president commit crimes before.

00:19:47.160 Like you point out, Obama with the droning of an American citizen.

00:19:50.660 And let's go back to what Bill Clinton did when he was in office and not we could go down a list with that guy.

00:19:56.860 But and Nixon, of course, was pardoned because he also was accused of committing crimes in office.

00:20:02.520 But the point is, we generally have not prosecuted former presidents here.

00:20:07.440 It's just been it's not the way the United States Constitution was set up.

00:20:11.080 And the Supreme Court enforced the guardrails stopping them from continuing this nonsense.

00:20:16.340 And that leads me. Well, before I get to the Trump case, because I do think that's that's really what I want to talk about.

00:20:23.120 Let's let's get to the Rachel Maddow reaction, because you talk about the left wing loons and how far they're taking it. 1.00

00:20:29.240 Listen to her characterization of what the Supreme Court did.

00:20:33.000 The practical impact of what they have done is to give Trump immunity that even he and his counsel did not ask for.

00:20:39.440 And given that the hypotheticals over the course of these arguments, as you rightly pointed out, included things like, can the president assassinate a rival?

00:20:48.260 I think we have to look at the Supreme Court's affirmative answer to that.

00:20:52.840 Yes, you can with as much seriousness as it deserves.

00:20:57.780 I mean, this is a death squad ruling.

00:20:59.280 This is a ruling that says that as long as you can construe it as an official or quasi official act, you can do absolutely anything.

00:21:11.500 Absolutely anything, including the death squads.

00:21:14.000 I mean, that's this is to our earlier point, which is not true, because for most of the official acts, there will only be a presumption.

00:21:21.140 It will be a strong presumption of immunity, but it will not be unpierceable.

00:21:26.700 Absolutely correct.

00:21:27.700 And you know what?

00:21:28.880 Where are these Democrats who are so concerned about the president being criminally prosecuted when you have a president of the United States sitting in office right now who is clearly corrupt, clearly compromised by over 20 million dollars in foreign corruption to what seems like every Biden family member.

00:21:50.980 Right. And then you have a president who has put not only indicted his leading presidential rival, Donald Trump.

00:21:58.700 We have two top presidential advisers, Peter Navarro and Steve Bannon, sitting in federal prison right now for contempt of Congress after Trump asserted constitutional executive privilege going back 250 years to George Washington to prevent presidential aides from having to testify to courts for Congress.

00:22:19.500 Because Biden and Biden and his Justice Department ignored that while they are giving amnesty to Hunter Biden, who ignored a congressional subpoena, was held in contempt after he did a press conference.

00:22:32.260 Merrick Garland turned over the transcript of Biden's conversation with special counsel, but then made this legally frivolous claim of executive privilege that he can't turn over the tape after he already turned over the transcript.

00:22:56.280 And then Merrick Garland got a good went down to his office of legal counsel, one of his subordinates, and got a legal opinion, essentially a get out of jail free card.

00:23:05.980 Right. So I don't want to hear.

00:23:07.680 But honestly, this this pairs perfectly. Well, not perfectly, but it pairs with what Steve Bannon did and just reported to Danbury, Connecticut prison for.

00:23:16.340 He, too, got a subpoena to appear in front of Congress.

00:23:18.720 He objected, asserting executive privilege, got advice of an attorney saying that's the right thing to do.

00:23:24.760 And Congress found him in contempt of Congress.

00:23:27.020 All the same things as Merrick Garland.

00:23:28.680 Only in one case, the DOJ prosecuted him and put him behind bars.

00:23:32.520 And in the other, Merrick Garland, because he runs the DOJ, surprisingly, they had no interest in doing that.

00:23:38.240 Yeah. And Peter Navarro, the White House trade director.

00:23:41.480 They put the White House trade.

00:23:42.680 Peter Navarro is still in prison.

00:23:44.420 Well, Hunter Biden, where there's zero claim of executive privilege, there's like crackhead son privilege.

00:23:50.240 I'm not sure what it is, but he he doesn't get prosecuted for contempt after his drive by press conference, where he clearly was able to show up to the House that day.

00:24:00.260 They got him out of the crack den and he was able to go to the House that day, but he couldn't testify.

00:24:04.480 Right. Are you kidding me?

00:24:05.700 And then, like you said.

00:24:08.300 Yeah, go ahead.

00:24:09.160 Finish your point, Eric.

00:24:10.040 I was going to say that on January 20th, 2025, we're going to find out if these same robots are going to be saying the mantra that nobody's above the law when the Trump 47 Justice Department prosecutes Hunter Biden for contempt and prosecutes Merrick Garland for contempt.

00:24:25.640 So are because the congressional House Republicans are now pursuing in civil court an order that would compel Merrick Garland to fork over the audio tape of Joe Biden in his consultation or his interview with special counsel Robert Herr saying that, you know, because the objection on paper was,

00:24:50.160 oh, we don't want A.I. to make replicas of the president's voice and use it again.

00:25:00.260 It was such a nonsense objection.

00:25:02.380 The president's voice is everywhere.

00:25:04.120 They can if A.I. gurus want to take the president's voice and create a version of it, I'm sure they've already done it.

00:25:09.960 They don't need the Robert Herr audio tape.

00:25:12.320 This is very, very clearly a political objection.

00:25:15.360 They know what's on that tape, I think, is going to sound very much like what we heard of that debate.

00:25:20.720 And they have the attorney general doing the president's bidding to try to keep it away from the electorate before the election.

00:25:27.940 So do you think that this district court will order the production of the audio tape?

00:25:34.000 Yes.

00:25:34.160 And if they don't, the appellate court will, because they established very clearly under the Trump administration that Congress has these powers. 0.99

00:25:43.160 And so now these precedents from under the Trump administration are going to come back and bite these Democrats in the ass. 0.99

00:25:50.560 And, you know, I mean, we were talking about that. 0.99

00:25:53.560 There's also the Fisher case, the 18 U.S.C.

00:25:56.320 1512 obstruction of an official proceeding that deals with the destruction of evidence or the hiding of evidence.

00:26:03.140 This might actually apply to this particular case because the attorney general is hiding evidence from Congress.

00:26:09.860 And that's a felony under the Fisher, you know, under the 18 U.S.C.

00:26:13.660 1512.

00:26:14.440 And then he's conspiring with others to hide this evidence, conspiracy, obstruction of official proceeding.

00:26:22.220 I mean, these cases that are in Trump's favor now may be very much needed by President Biden and Merrick Garland and these others who are pretending nobody's above the law.

00:26:32.280 I agree with that.

00:26:33.540 All right.

00:26:33.660 Let's talk about what this means for the prosecutions against Donald Trump.

00:26:37.120 First and foremost, I think this Clarence Thomas concurrence about Jack Smith not being a proper special counsel.

00:26:47.220 He didn't say he's not.

00:26:48.300 He said he's got serious questions about whether he's an appropriate special counsel, given that we don't have a special counsel statute anymore.

00:26:55.580 He hasn't been properly appointed by the executive branch.

00:26:59.620 He's not somebody who's been appointed by the president, confirmed by the Senate.

00:27:02.820 And he said he thinks that we should be determining whether the special counsel is valid at all before we proceed with any of these prosecutions.

00:27:10.960 It was a very interesting tell on whether Jack Smith can survive, because that's another legal argument that's working its way up through the courts right now.

00:27:22.620 And I'll bet you anything he's got another four votes on his side on that.

00:27:26.660 What did you make of that?

00:27:28.220 There's no question he does, because Jack Smith's office is clearly unconstitutional.

00:27:34.000 You have to have offices established by the Constitution or by congressional statute.

00:27:41.100 The independent counsel statute expired after the 10-star investigation of Clinton.

00:27:46.980 They've never, Congress has never reestablished an independent counsel or a special counsel office.

00:27:52.140 It's, it's been, it's been done through Department of Justice regulations.

00:27:55.840 And the problem with that is when you are hiring, essentially Jack Smith's not an officer.

00:28:00.880 He's an employee.

00:28:01.640 He's just like an assistant U.S. attorney in a U.S. attorney's office.

00:28:05.600 But the difference is, is the U.S. attorney is Senate confirmed and appointed by the president.

00:28:11.740 And that, as that U.S. attorney supervises the assistant U.S. attorneys on a day-to-day basis,

00:28:17.460 the special counsel regulations actually make it where the attorney general to whom the special

00:28:23.240 counsel reports on paper actually can't supervise the special counsel on a day-to-day basis.

00:28:29.420 So this is, this is clearly unconstitutional, this whole special counsel regime.

00:28:35.100 That's another one that if the high court rules accordingly would help Joe Biden,

00:28:39.980 because if special counsel Jack Smith is not appropriate, then special counsel Robert Hurd.

00:28:45.760 Mike Davis.

00:28:47.900 You know, you never know.

00:28:49.100 I mean, that could come back to help him as well.

00:28:51.040 But okay, here is Trump's attorney, Will Scharf, on how he thinks this immunity decision is going to affect

00:28:57.560 the New York trial.

00:28:59.780 And there's breaking news on Trump's maneuvering in that trial.

00:29:04.080 This January 11th sentencing may be off.

00:29:08.600 Watch.

00:29:08.680 Yeah, absolutely, Caitlin.

00:29:10.940 The Supreme Court was very clear that for acts that fall within the outer perimeter of the

00:29:16.460 president's official responsibilities, acts that are presumptively immune from prosecution,

00:29:22.600 that evidence of those acts cannot be used to try essentially private acts.

00:29:28.520 So what we have in New York is a situation where a substantial number of official acts of the

00:29:33.960 presidency, things that we believe are official acts, were used as evidence to support the

00:29:38.660 charges in that New York trial.

00:29:40.680 We believe that that corrupts that trial, that that indicates that that jury verdict needs to be

00:29:45.420 overturned.

00:29:46.000 And at the very least, we deserve a new trial where those immune acts will not come into evidence as

00:29:51.040 the Supreme Court dictated today.

00:29:52.680 And no sooner did he say that, Mike, than Trump filed a motion seeking to throw out this verdict, saying you

00:30:00.820 allowed official acts to come into evidence.

00:30:03.380 And that was improper, pursuant to our discussion earlier.

00:30:06.400 And therefore, there should be no sentencing and this conviction should be overturned.

00:30:10.720 How do you like his chances?

00:30:11.460 Well, if you had a fair judge, you'd have very good chances.

00:30:15.740 But I think that this evidence is what Will Scharf just said is absolutely correct.

00:30:20.780 And it's going to get this conviction reversed on appeal for that issue alone.

00:30:25.680 But the issue and there are so many other issues.

00:30:27.340 The problem is, is that you have a corrupt partisan rigged process and a corrupt and partisan

00:30:32.540 judge in this, Juan Mershon, whose adult daughter he donated to Biden and another anti-Trump cause

00:30:38.720 that creates a recusal issue under New York statute.

00:30:44.080 You also have the fact that his adult daughter, Lauren Mershon, is raising millions of dollars

00:30:48.560 off this unprecedented trial of Trump in New York, requiring Judge Mershon's recusal under

00:30:56.240 New York statute.

00:30:57.260 And that's not just me saying it.

00:30:58.500 Will was just on Caitlin Collins' show.

00:31:00.600 There was a former federal Clinton judge on Caitlin Collins' show on April 5th who said

00:31:07.300 very clearly that Judge Mershon had to recuse under New York statute because his daughter

00:31:12.460 has a financial stake in this criminal prosecution.

00:31:16.160 She's raising millions of dollars as a Democrat fundraiser. 1.00

00:31:19.700 She's taking a cut. 0.79

00:31:20.800 When President Trump raised this evidence with Judge Mershon, Judge Mershon retaliated against

00:31:27.400 President Trump and said that he's going to throw Trump in prison.

00:31:29.900 And if he mentions Lauren Mershon's name, there are so many other reasons that this trial

00:31:34.900 was corrupt.

00:31:35.600 You had a rigged jury.

00:31:37.160 So wait, I don't want to go back all through the New York trial.

00:31:39.480 But I do think I'm interested because I think this judge will either.

00:31:44.940 Some of these acts will say were unofficial.

00:31:47.200 He'll say they were clearly unofficial and therefore not within the Supreme Court's ruling.

00:31:51.040 But some of them, he's going to have a trickier time saying were clearly unofficial.

00:31:57.340 I mean, some of these actions that Trump was prosecuted for happened while he was in the

00:32:02.440 Oval Office.

00:32:03.020 He was the sitting president.

00:32:05.120 And I don't know, there's at least a colorable argument.

00:32:07.920 And this court is saying the lower courts need to have a hearing, an evidentiary hearing to

00:32:12.040 figure out whether it's official or unofficial.

00:32:15.880 And if he decides not to do that, I mean, no judge wants to be reversed.

00:32:21.940 That's the number one thing they don't want.

00:32:23.940 And in the way, like it would be pretty brazen to flout the U.S. Supreme Court within a week

00:32:30.740 of its ruling.

00:32:31.540 I said before January 11th, the hearings on July 11th for Trump's sentencing.

00:32:37.240 I don't know.

00:32:37.880 And something interesting happened on Monday, Mike.

00:32:39.700 The prosecution was supposed to make its sentencing recommendation for Trump, and it didn't

00:32:44.220 in the New York case, at least not that the docket reflects.

00:32:48.000 So what do you think is going to happen?

00:32:50.040 You think he's actually going to get sentenced on July 11th?

00:32:51.940 Or do you think this judge is going to take another look?

00:32:55.440 I think this judge is going to sentence Trump on July 11th because this judge has proven

00:33:00.440 over and over and over that he's ignored the Supreme Court and the Constitution, including

00:33:06.280 the fact that the judge said that the jury did not have to unanimously agree to all the

00:33:14.060 elements of the criminal charges.

00:33:15.320 They can disagree on the underlying second crime that turned bookkeeping misdemeanors into

00:33:21.880 felonies.

00:33:22.640 The judge has said, oh, you could pick whatever you want.

00:33:25.760 You can have 444 or whatever you want, right?

00:33:27.760 So this judge has proven over the course of this trial, he doesn't care about what the 0.81

00:33:32.040 Supreme Court has held in the past, and he's corrupt.

00:33:35.800 He doesn't want his daughter, Laura Michonne, to get cut off from the Democrat fundraising

00:33:40.260 machine.

00:33:40.620 And he hates Trump.

00:33:41.040 She's making a lot of money. 1.00

00:33:42.800 And he hates Trump.

00:33:43.560 I think that's his biggest motivation of all.

00:33:45.500 Here was an interesting point, something I've never said before, by Lawrence O'Donnell last

00:33:50.480 night on his show, because the January 6th case is all but dead.

00:33:55.520 I mean, it's it's all but dead in the wake of Fisher, which gutted the main claim against

00:34:00.980 Trump on the January 6th stuff.

00:34:03.580 And now in the wake of the presidential immunity ruling, it's I don't know what's left.

00:34:07.620 But Judge Chutkin, the district court judge in that case, is going to have to have said

00:34:11.320 evidentiary hearing.

00:34:12.300 And the court seemed very disdainful of her.

00:34:14.200 The majority was saying, like, in a case this complex and this important, there was

00:34:18.980 no evidentiary hearing at all on what the nature of the acts was, whether they were

00:34:25.620 considered a fish in his official capacity or as candidate Trump and seemed to be chastising

00:34:31.380 the lower court and frankly, the D.C.

00:34:33.140 Court of Appeals for rushing to judgment because they so wanted to get Trump as opposed to doing

00:34:39.140 their jobs.

00:34:40.340 So good for the SCOTUS majority on that.

00:34:43.120 In any event, though, now there will be a hearing by Judge Chutkin, who doesn't also

00:34:47.160 she doesn't like Trump and Lawrence O'Donnell made the following point.

00:34:50.620 Take a listen.

00:34:51.780 The very bad news for Donald Trump in this decision today and for candidate Trump, very,

00:34:56.860 very bad, is that Mike Pence is going to walk into a federal courtroom, raise his right

00:35:02.100 hand, take an oath to tell the truth and testify against Donald Trump in this case in September.

00:35:10.440 But you're going to see this incredible January 6th hearing on steroids, possibly for six,

00:35:18.240 eight weeks, September, October, maybe.

00:35:21.840 So do you agree with that?

00:35:23.400 Not that it's going to be a bit terrible for Trump, but do you think that's what's about

00:35:26.020 to happen?

00:35:27.040 It could.

00:35:27.640 But remember, the Supreme Court also said that the president's communications with his vice

00:35:33.880 president.

00:35:34.240 I think what I'd have to go back and look at the opinion, I thought it was part of his

00:35:37.680 core constitutional responsibilities to communicate with his vice president.

00:35:41.640 I think they said probably.

00:35:42.980 I think that that that one got less protection than attorneys conversations with the attorney

00:35:48.800 general.

00:35:49.460 And I think that's more situation based.

00:35:51.460 So presumption or at least subject to a fact finding hearing.

00:35:55.880 Yeah.

00:35:56.100 Well, I think they said at least the presumption.

00:35:59.240 Right.

00:35:59.480 So we'll we'll see on that one.

00:36:01.080 I think that communications between the president and the vice president might be core constitutional

00:36:05.860 responsibilities that are absolutely immune.

00:36:08.260 But even if Pence comes in and testifies against Trump, I don't think the American people give

00:36:12.880 a damn about January 6th.

00:36:14.680 Right. 0.99

00:36:14.880 I just think people are way over January 6th.

00:36:17.220 They care about the fact that interest rates are very high.

00:36:21.220 Inflation is bad.

00:36:22.720 The border is a disaster.

00:36:24.340 Crime is high.

00:36:25.160 They're just they're not doing well at home.

00:36:27.560 Right.

00:36:27.720 They're suffering at home.

00:36:28.720 So I don't think they care about what the D.C.

00:36:31.860 Democrats care about January 6th.

00:36:33.660 They act like it's the you know, they act like it's worse than the Civil War and the

00:36:37.860 American people just don't give a damn. 0.89

00:36:39.360 And that's what's so frustrating.

00:36:40.260 If we could just if we could just have one more hearing on it, then people will see it

00:36:44.000 the way we see it.

00:36:45.100 It's like we've had hearings coming out the ears on this thing.

00:36:48.660 We've had an impeachment process, primetime addresses.

00:36:52.180 We've had a whole congressional committee executive produced by ABC News, former chief executive.

00:36:59.160 I mean, my God, how many more can we have before they realize what you said?

00:37:03.180 People care about their kitchen table issues.

00:37:05.800 OK, I've got to ask you, is is this going to get rid of the Florida case, too?

00:37:12.640 I mean, there's just I feel like this this ruling is absolutely devastating to the potentially

00:37:19.040 the Georgia case, potentially the Florida, the Florida case, potentially, yes, the January

00:37:23.560 6th case and New York.

00:37:24.760 But how much would you say is getting gutted by the immunity ruling yesterday?

00:37:28.280 The Florida case is a little bit different because that was retention of records after

00:37:34.400 he left office.

00:37:35.460 But I'll tell you what, these January 6th cases are toast, just absolutely toast, which

00:37:40.360 I think is great because January 6th has become the Democrats high holiday and high holy holiday. 0.56

00:37:47.060 And I just I think it's just awesome that it was the chief justice, John Roberts, not exactly

00:37:52.660 a MAGA warrior who destroyed the Democrats holiday.

00:37:58.380 Well, we'll see.

00:38:00.280 I mean, Atlanta's dead on the vine right now anyway, because Fannie Willis's disqualification 0.89

00:38:04.700 is up on appeal.

00:38:06.200 Florida, it's not going particularly well on the rulings for them down there.

00:38:09.760 And we'll have to see.

00:38:11.660 But nothing's happening before Election Day.

00:38:14.640 And that's what everyone says.

00:38:16.760 I mean, the president himself said it in his address from the White House last night.

00:38:20.440 Every liberal pundit, every legal pundit said this officially puts to bed the possibility

00:38:24.780 of an actual legal case prior to Election Day.

00:38:27.720 We'll see whether Jack Smith tries to make something happen before swearing in day in

00:38:32.200 January, which is their next great hope.

00:38:34.960 Never dull moment.

00:38:35.640 Mike Davis, thank you so much for your sage analysis.

00:38:39.000 Thank you.

00:38:39.680 Up next, we're going to be joined by Andrew Klavan of The Daily Wire and host of The Andrew

00:38:44.780 Klavan Show.

00:38:45.540 He's got thoughts on the Democratic meltdown around Joe Biden and his refusal to go.

00:38:52.900 Stand by.

00:38:54.540 I'm Megyn Kelly, host of The Megyn Kelly Show on Sirius XM.

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00:39:57.920 Joining us now, Andrew Klavan.

00:40:00.520 He's the host of The Andrew Klavan Show over on The Daily Wire.

00:40:03.700 Andrew, great to have you.

00:40:04.880 Joe Biden's not going anywhere, so says the president himself, so says his team.

00:40:11.540 His top campaign officials were holding meetings with top donors, telling them,

00:40:17.960 start breathing through your nose.

00:40:19.660 Just calm down.

00:40:20.900 It's not that big a deal.

00:40:22.020 Just a bad night.

00:40:22.840 And then when the donors were saying, like, well, we want to know what kind of condition he's in,

00:40:26.560 their response was, we're not going to be discussing the debate.

00:40:29.660 This is not about the debate.

00:40:30.920 So we're going to be discussing a go-forward plan.

00:40:35.580 This is getting really dicey because the Democrat establishment has said he needs to go.

00:40:41.440 And there are reports that even top Democratic lawmakers are saying he needs to go,

00:40:45.100 though outwardly they're saying the opposite.

00:40:47.240 And yet the president is completely dug in.

00:40:50.120 As far as I can see, none of these are bad options for Republicans,

00:40:53.160 but you can see the Democratic Party in a seriously fractured mode right now.

00:40:57.780 What do you make of it?

00:40:58.380 Well, I think this is a watershed moment in the main thing that this country is going through,

00:41:03.160 which is an information revolution and an information revolution that's really on the

00:41:06.860 verge of an information crisis.

00:41:08.620 What we saw at the debate was the collapse of this kind of fake planet that the Democrats have created

00:41:15.680 by their incredible domination of the flow of information up until this point.

00:41:21.440 So you have the networks, you have the New York Times,

00:41:23.320 and the New York Times is really an underrated source of information for everybody else.

00:41:28.340 You know, whatever is in the New York Times becomes the scripture for the rest of the media.

00:41:32.980 And all of it was false.

00:41:34.660 You know, the three words that no one is allowed to speak in America are conservatives were right.

00:41:39.660 Once again, conservatives were right.

00:41:41.300 Joe Biden is not fit to hold the office of the presidency.

00:41:43.560 He's been a bookmark all this time.

00:41:45.520 He's been a placeholder and a kind of acceptable face of a far left agenda that the rest of the

00:41:51.760 Democrat Party is putting forward.

00:41:54.240 They went from one line.

00:41:55.580 It was amazing.

00:41:56.880 You know, before, if I can pat myself on the back for just one moment, before the debate,

00:42:00.740 I said that Joe Biden has dementia.

00:42:04.500 Dementia is a progressive disease.

00:42:07.160 And the right kind of has this fantasy that because the left controls so much of the information,

00:42:12.380 they have utter control over information, they kept saying, well, they'll drug him,

00:42:15.600 they'll give him a cocktail.

00:42:16.720 And I said, at some point, we don't have a cure for this disease.

00:42:19.580 It gets worse and worse and it starts to speed up.

00:42:22.220 And so I was kind of saying he might collapse.

00:42:24.120 And at the same time, Donald Trump has established a new form of discipline,

00:42:27.560 a new kind of restraint that nobody's been paying attention to either.

00:42:30.620 So the debate was kind of exactly what I was expecting.

00:42:32.940 But it was what no one else was expecting because of this dome of misinformation that

00:42:39.680 the media is able to create.

00:42:41.240 And that dome collapsed.

00:42:42.500 I mean, it just fell down.

00:42:44.400 And the question is, the really big question is, how much of the people,

00:42:48.380 how much has the American audience adjusted to the lies?

00:42:52.880 So in other words, were they seeing something that they had no idea existed before?

00:42:56.500 Because I do talk to a lot of liberals.

00:42:58.280 I work in the arts.

00:42:59.200 I know a lot of people who are on the left, they usually have no idea what's going on.

00:43:03.400 They read the New York Times.

00:43:04.660 They think the New York Times is information instead of disinformation.

00:43:07.840 So how shocked were they by what they saw?

00:43:11.260 Most people, I think, understood that Biden has collapsed.

00:43:14.380 I mean, Biden is, you know, he's a senile guy.

00:43:16.820 It's like it's sad, but there it is.

00:43:19.080 And so what the New York Times did was they shifted immediately from one lie to the next.

00:43:23.380 One was the lie before the debate was that he was perfectly fine.

00:43:27.260 Everything was just a cheap fake.

00:43:28.860 All the videos were cheap fakes.

00:43:30.400 It was all invented and all this stuff.

00:43:32.400 The lie afterward was he should step down after a long and distinguished career. 0.97

00:43:37.520 Well, Joe Biden has been a corrupt political hack with a nasty streak his entire life. 0.75

00:43:42.380 And the idea that he is a lunch bucket Joe and that he has some kind of sense of principle 0.98

00:43:46.520 is a complete falsehood.

00:43:48.200 This guy.

00:43:49.060 He's got himself.

00:43:51.800 He's amazing.

00:43:53.000 He's been the poster boy for unprincipled politicians.

00:43:55.920 And so, you know, what I'm asking myself is how much are people learning to adjust to

00:44:04.160 the new information age?

00:44:05.680 How much are they able to now parse information themselves without the gatekeepers who have

00:44:10.600 been washed away?

00:44:11.880 I don't think the left is on board.

00:44:14.260 I don't think the left.

00:44:14.940 I think that's you're only speaking of independents and righties at this point.

00:44:17.660 The left, some lefties.

00:44:19.140 I mean, I know some who have pierced the veil and said, OK, I'm starting to see it.

00:44:22.940 But it's it's the exception, not the rule.

00:44:24.840 I do want to let's just because I've been wanting to put this together, but the notion that we

00:44:30.900 can dismiss what happened on Thursday night is just, you know, he was a little off.

00:44:35.740 Everybody has good days and bad days.

00:44:37.580 It's a cold is absurd.

00:44:39.220 Here's just we just put it down to a one minute.

00:44:41.000 But here's just a reminder of what happened that night.

00:44:44.860 Much more informed on the.

00:44:48.440 This is actually a montage of the motives of some of the political players and some of the.

00:45:05.360 And the political parties, Jackie, you here?

00:45:08.440 Where's Jackie?

00:45:09.500 I think she was going to be here.

00:45:12.300 America was dead.

00:45:13.580 That can be defined in a single word.

00:45:15.540 I was in the foothills of the Himalayas.

00:45:20.940 Somewhere between 700 billion and a trillion, 300 million billion.

00:45:26.820 Here, a brute here.

00:45:27.880 It is used to make the brew beer.

00:45:31.740 Oh, Earthrider.

00:45:33.260 Thanks for the Great Lakes.

00:45:34.600 Don't mess with the men in America unless you want to get the benefit.

00:45:38.600 Asylum officers and over 100 cutting edge inspection machines. 0.90

00:45:44.280 To help detect and stop fentanyl coming outside our southwest portion.

00:45:48.420 Imagine what we can do next.

00:45:50.540 Four more years.

00:45:53.220 Four more years.

00:45:57.120 I really need the Archie Bunker button.

00:46:00.260 I need the Archie Bunker button where he just says,

00:46:03.680 So we've all seen that.

00:46:07.140 OK, but it's worse.

00:46:08.480 It's worse because I actually thought what we saw on stage was shocking.

00:46:12.040 And I covered Joe Biden's, you know, gaffes all the time.

00:46:15.580 Even I was shocked by what I saw.

00:46:18.260 And now you've got Carl Bernstein of Woodward and Bernstein fame and Watergate on CNN last night.

00:46:24.600 This is kind of a longer clip, which we don't normally go over a minute because it gets boring.

00:46:28.300 But this one's over a minute because listen to what he's reporting.

00:46:32.280 Well, these are people, several of them, who are very close to President Biden, who love him, have supported him, have been among them, or some people who have raised a lot of money for him.

00:46:43.240 And they are adamant that what we saw the other night, the Joe Biden we saw, is not a one-off, that there have been 15, 20 occasions in the last year and a half when the president has appeared somewhat as he did in that horror show that we witnessed.

00:47:04.460 And what's so significant is the people that this is coming from and also how many people around the president are aware of such incidents, including some reporters, incidentally, who have witnessed some of them.

00:47:17.100 In the last six months particularly, there has been a marked incidence of cognitive decline.

00:47:23.280 And people I've talked to have all been to Ron Klain in the last year to say, we have a problem.

00:47:30.820 There was a fundraiser at which he started at the podium, and then he became very stiff, according to the people there, as if it were almost a kind of rigor mortis.

00:47:40.720 This was reported.

00:47:41.920 He became very stiff, and a chair had to be brought for him to do the latter part of the event.

00:47:48.000 There is no question.

00:47:49.340 I have heard for two years how sharp Joe Biden is in his national security meetings.

00:47:56.200 He has special briefing books.

00:47:57.860 So we're clearly dealing with two sets of one person.

00:48:04.860 I mean, that is terrifying.

00:48:06.660 That 15 to 20 times where he's appeared, as he did on that stage, reporters have witnessed it, too.

00:48:14.800 Over the six months we've just experienced, there's been a marked decline, that staff are complaining to Ron Klain, his former chief of staff and the guy who helped prepare him for the debate, that at a fundraiser he couldn't function and was frozen, rigor mortis-like.

00:48:32.700 That's what a dead body has.

00:48:34.300 This is deeply alarming, and yet what we hear today is that in that fundraising phone call or the phone call that the chief of the campaign had with donors, she's touting the fact that he's gotten this clean bill of health from the medical doctor for his physical wellness.

00:48:53.020 You remember they did not do a cognitive ability test.

00:48:56.840 There's been – and by the way, Andrew, you and I both know if he actually were completely there and had no problems with dementia or any of the other types of dementia, whether it's Alzheimer's or there's a lot of different kinds, they would put out a medical report tomorrow.

00:49:13.520 They would have a doctor examine him.

00:49:14.740 The doctor would come to the microphones to settle down the clamor over last Thursday night and say, this is absolutely normal aging.

00:49:21.100 He doesn't have any sort of a condition.

00:49:22.720 We did a cognitive test.

00:49:23.980 He passed it with flying colors.

00:49:25.180 There's a reason they're not doing this.

00:49:28.460 Yeah.

00:49:29.000 I mean, for one thing, the donors are the same age as Biden, so they may not know what's going on either.

00:49:34.160 But when you consider the usual discipline of the Democrat media complex, when you consider how carefully they march in line, how they use the same words all the time, he's sharp, he's sharp.

00:49:45.880 There's nothing – you know, he's all there.

00:49:46.680 Sharp as a tack.

00:49:47.400 He's sharp as a tack, and they all say the same things.

00:49:50.120 When you consider that that's starting to unravel, because guys like Carl Bernstein are not going to let their reputations go down the drain with Biden.

00:49:57.040 Joe Scarborough may – he's kind of stuffing his into the compactor, his reputation into the compactor.

00:50:01.300 But, you know, a lot of these guys are starting to say, well, I can't just go online when everybody can see the truth in front of them.

00:50:07.420 So I think the donors are going to catch on.

00:50:10.080 I think the party is going to catch on.

00:50:11.620 I'm a little – you know, I've been predicting that Biden was going to have to stand down for months, and he hasn't.

00:50:17.300 So I can't say now – I'm not going to say now that he will, because he's clearly clinging to power with every ounce of strength that's in him.

00:50:24.680 But at some point, this really does unravel, even for the left – not the left, but remember, most Democrats are not as far to the left as the party is.

00:50:33.680 And they've got a second problem, which is that Trump is doing pretty well.

00:50:37.520 You know, Trump is a guy who uses hyperbole all the time.

00:50:40.800 He doesn't speak very articulately.

00:50:42.960 He speaks in vague notions.

00:50:45.220 But a lot – you know, their narrative after the debate was that, yes, Biden was off, but Trump lied.

00:50:52.020 But the fact is, if you erase the hyperbole and if you erase the everyone is the best and everything hates everybody, you know, that kind of talk that Trump uses, a lot of the stuff Trump said was true.

00:51:02.380 You know, Putin didn't take any territory during his presidency.

00:51:07.160 It was more peaceful.

00:51:08.480 There were more – there was more security at the border.

00:51:12.460 All of the big points – inflation was far, far better.

00:51:15.820 And all of the big points that Trump made were true, and all of the big points that Biden made that Trump had called Nazis, you know, fine people, that he had praised Hitler and all those – all of those were untrue.

00:51:27.000 So you've got this very, very strange moment when the entire narrative that has been an excuse for the lawfare, it's been an excuse for the January 6th persecutions, it's been an excuse for putting, you know, guys like Steve Bannon in jail.

00:51:43.020 All of those things that they've been using kind of collapsed.

00:51:46.060 The entire narrative collapsed.

00:51:48.080 And it really is a question of how much people were paying attention before and how much they're paying more.

00:51:53.800 I have to tell you my theory, which is that people are getting better at parsing information.

00:51:58.320 They're getting better at throwing away conspiracy theories and telling the truth from conspiracy theories.

00:52:02.740 But they're also getting better at saying – at calculating in the lies of the left, which are so pervasive in the media.

00:52:10.140 I think this is a really big moment for conservatives if they take advantage of it, but it's also a really big moment for Democrats to wake up to the fact that they cannot live in this bubble of misinformation forever.

00:52:22.440 People will see through it.

00:52:23.960 We're not quite –

00:52:24.580 And that something is not untrue simply because conservatives are saying it.

00:52:30.280 All you needed was eyes and ears to see what was happening with Joe Biden.

00:52:34.900 Again, maybe not this bad and alarming, but arguably, yes, it's not a lie when you're looking at it with your own eyes and ears just because conservatives are observing it as well and making something out of it.

00:52:49.420 It's just absurd what the position they've let themselves get into.

00:52:52.020 So now I want to talk about some of the reaction because it is going to be very tricky if they do.

00:52:56.320 Because to me, the best thing that happened for Joe Biden was Obama came out and said, we all have bad debate nights and backed him.

00:53:03.300 But James Carville was out yesterday saying an interesting point on that, that you can't look at what Clinton, Bill Clinton, or Barack Obama do and say.

00:53:14.100 That's the role of a former president is to lie low, be diplomatic, and not bash the previous president, though.

00:53:22.020 You could raise that question about where was that principle when they were talking about Trump.

00:53:26.280 In any event, I get his point.

00:53:28.620 It's a fellow Democrat.

00:53:29.600 It's a sitting president.

00:53:30.440 Their role is just to kind of not be the standard bearers for, like, let's get rid of him.

00:53:35.520 But there are reports, and he was saying it has to come from lawmakers, sitting lawmakers, you know, Schumer, Pelosi, Hakeem Jeffries.

00:53:43.580 And there are reports that those three, at least Pelosi and Jeffries, are behind the scenes raising concerns about Biden.

00:53:51.700 And so I'm not convinced that the elected Democrats are going to stand behind him.

00:53:58.260 The other problem they have, though, is that all the money in the coffers, some 94 million plus, is Joe Biden's.

00:54:04.840 And if they try to bounce him off the ticket, Andrew, they don't get the money.

00:54:08.220 If they sub in a Gavin Newsom, maybe if they keep Kamala Harris, though it's not 100 percent sure they can keep the money. 0.99

00:54:13.940 But they don't want Kamala Harris. 0.99

00:54:16.040 And that's the big question.

00:54:17.900 What do you do with a problem like Kamala?

00:54:19.500 Because nobody has really wrestled with, great, we get rid of Joe.

00:54:25.000 What do we do about her?

00:54:26.320 Well, yeah, I mean, I hate to celebrate the twisting of my opponents on their own string, but this is what's happened.

00:54:35.520 This is their fault.

00:54:36.520 They created this situation.

00:54:38.200 Joe Biden said he was going to appoint a minority woman to the vice presidency. 0.98

00:54:41.560 He did.

00:54:42.400 He forgot to ask about qualifications.

00:54:44.700 A little, you know, just a little mistake he made there, because obviously Kamala Harris is not fit to be president. 1.00

00:54:49.780 And she actually still has all her marbles and she can't do the job. 0.99

00:54:53.180 And so they don't know what to do, because how do you replace, you know, how do you solve a problem like Kamala?

00:54:58.660 How do you replace her without violating the identity politics?

00:55:03.140 How do you find a politician who actually who looks like a centrist but will allow the party to follow the left wing agenda as Joe Biden has?

00:55:12.420 The mainstream of the Democrat Party is very far left.

00:55:16.380 They're not going to let some, you know, moderate come in there and change direction.

00:55:20.380 So you've got to find somebody who's willing, as Biden has been his whole life, to be the po-faced representative of the party while the party does whatever it wants.

00:55:29.680 And they just don't have anybody like that to bring on.

00:55:32.660 So you can't bring on a white man like the governor of Kentucky.

00:55:36.940 You know, you have to find at least a female to replace him. 1.00

00:55:40.380 And who have you got?

00:55:41.320 You got Gretchen Whitmer.

00:55:42.220 You know, that's basically their that's getting a lot of buzz.

00:55:44.780 Yeah, she's getting a lot of buzz. 0.66

00:55:46.440 And she's you know, I really dislike Gretchen Whitmer because of the way she behaved during the covid crisis. 1.00

00:55:52.620 She was absolutely dictatorial.

00:55:55.560 And at the same time, she was like Gavin Newsom.

00:55:57.660 She was going out to dinner and violating her own rules and all that stuff. 0.54

00:56:01.120 But, you know, she's a fairly popular governor in that state. 0.99

00:56:04.160 And that state has been a swing state.

00:56:06.240 So she might be their best bet.

00:56:08.060 Yeah.

00:56:08.220 OK, so let me before we went, I want to show you what there was a controversy with her yesterday and whether she's seeking the job, which I'll get to in one second. 0.79

00:56:15.080 But first, I've got to show you this clip.

00:56:16.440 We've been trying to get to it all week with speaking of Kamala.

00:56:19.640 She sat down with Taranji B.

00:56:22.160 Henson and did.

00:56:23.880 It's an ad.

00:56:24.880 It's an ad for Obama Harris.

00:56:27.300 It says so in the bottom right of the clip.

00:56:29.200 I don't totally understand how this happened, but it was from the BET Awards.

00:56:33.420 And then I guess the White House liked it so much they decided to use it in an ad.

00:56:39.620 You tell me this is the next standard bearer.

00:56:42.480 Should Joe go?

00:56:43.720 Watch.

00:56:45.020 No, no, Taraji.

00:56:46.540 Now, you know, I wouldn't do that, especially not to a fellow bison. 1.00

00:56:50.220 The real H-U, you know. 0.89

00:56:52.400 So what's on your mind?

00:56:54.360 Oh, Madam VP Harris, I'm worried about the election.

00:56:58.700 Women's reproductive rights are on the line. 0.96

00:57:01.380 Our Supreme Court is on the line.

00:57:02.960 And our basic freedoms are being tested.

00:57:05.340 Madam VP, I know you've been traveling across the country.

00:57:08.920 What are you hearing?

00:57:10.360 Yeah, girl, I'm out here in these streets.

00:57:12.100 And let me tell you, you're right, Taraji.

00:57:14.040 There is so much at stake in this moment.

00:57:16.580 The majority of us believe in freedom and equality.

00:57:21.060 But these extremists, as they say, they not like us.

00:57:25.140 No, they not.

00:57:26.200 There's a full-on attack on our fundamental freedoms.

00:57:29.340 The freedom to vote.

00:57:30.980 Yep.

00:57:31.340 The freedom to love who you love.

00:57:33.400 The freedom to be safe from gun violence.

00:57:35.300 The freedom for a woman to make decisions about her own body, not having her government tell her what to do.

00:57:40.940 Oh, my God.

00:57:42.880 For the listening audience, that all took place with them looking into their iPhones and seeing the other person.

00:57:48.800 That was, as the kids would say, cringe.

00:57:52.380 A hundred percent.

00:57:54.320 Kamala is an expert at cringe.

00:57:55.960 That seems to be her main qualification for what she does. 0.97

00:57:59.300 Because, you know, I just think, look, the Democrats have depended on showbiz and turning the news media into showbiz for a very long time.

00:58:08.100 And I just don't think it's going to play.

00:58:10.060 I don't think, you know, people are afraid.

00:58:11.480 I know on the right, as I say, on the right, we have this kind of overblown idea of their cultural power.

00:58:17.320 They have a lot of cultural power, but they don't have all the cultural power.

00:58:20.440 I'm not sure they can move a Michelle Obama in there, for instance, and not have the people roll their eyes and say, hey, you know, this isn't a TV show.

00:58:27.480 This is politics.

00:58:28.380 We want somebody who at least we know can do the job.

00:58:31.520 And so I'm really I'm I really think they're stuck.

00:58:35.620 I mean, Henry Olson, who is the best poll watcher that I know, says that they could get away with Gretchen Whitmer, maybe Warnock from Georgia as the vice president.

00:58:44.120 You know, I don't even know structurally how they get there in terms of the Democrat rules of play.

00:58:49.780 It's amazing to me for those of us who've been alive for 130 years.

00:58:54.440 It's amazing to me that this is a replay, almost exact replay of 1968 when there when the convention was also in Chicago and LBJ was stepping down because of Vietnam, when when there was there were protests within the Democrat Party, as there are now about Hamas and Israel.

00:59:10.500 This is an amazing replay of that time when the Democrat Party basically unraveled.

00:59:16.680 You know, if if Trump were not the nominee, it would be clear sailing.

00:59:20.600 He's a very, very controversial person.

00:59:22.780 Obviously, he's a person that people hate very much and love very much.

00:59:26.160 And he is not fear the surefire candidate that would just nail this thing down.

00:59:31.260 That's what makes it all a big question.

00:59:33.060 You know, what's interesting is 68 is the reason the Democrats are stuck in this position, because the Democrats used to have an open convention where you'd show up and you wouldn't know who was going to be the nominee.

00:59:44.180 They'd show up and they'd sing and dance and try to convince the delegates that they were the best person for the job.

00:59:48.920 And after things were so catastrophic, it's in 68, the Democrats changed it such that you would collect the delegates before the convention.

00:59:57.100 They'd be pledged to you. And when you went in there, you'd have the vote like the voters would decide it wasn't going to be decided by all the party elders and it wasn't going to be decided on the day or at the actual convention, which is what people like The New York Times now want.

01:00:14.560 This is what the more reasonable left that's saying we can't go forward with Joe.

01:00:19.900 They're saying just because the voters voted for these delegates or these delegates are pledged to Joe Biden now doesn't mean that they have to stick by him.

01:00:26.200 We can't do it like this. He's incapacitated.

01:00:29.560 In any event, I think they're all wishing they had their old system at this point.

01:00:32.800 I want to talk about some of the people. It'd be so absurd if they get rid of Kamala Harris and Joe and they decide to go with Gretchen Whitmer and Raphael Warnock.

01:00:42.920 So they're like, we we recreated a black woman. We have one who's black and one who's a woman.

01:00:48.520 There you go. That's how they are. That's how they're so obsessed with this stuff.

01:00:53.920 They might do it. So Gretchen Whitmer got she stepped in it reportedly yesterday because there was a news report supposedly released by one of her competitors, meaning somebody else who's in the running for Joe Biden's job, that she said to the president, Michigan is lost, not to the president, but to his team.

01:01:14.680 Just FYI, in the wake of that debate, Michigan's lost. 0.99

01:01:16.920 She came out and denied it and said anybody who says that doesn't know shit. 0.96

01:01:21.540 And the takeaway is if one of her competitors released that about her, it's it shows they fear she's a threat and it shows people are starting to vie for the job that the you know, the bench is starting to warm up. 0.97

01:01:35.820 So it's not settled on the Dem side. What's going to happen here?

01:01:39.220 Here's a little bit of a video Gretchen Whitmer posted to X on Monday where she's all team Biden.

01:01:46.920 The whole world is going to be watching what happens in Michigan.

01:01:50.400 And I know none of us wants to wake up the morning after this election and feel like we did in 2016.

01:01:55.560 We have a president who wakes up every single day and thinks about how we can make people's lives better.

01:02:00.660 We have a president who is committed to respecting and protecting women's rights under the law in this country.

01:02:06.040 And so, my friends, this election will be decided by a slim number of people in a handful of states and we are one of them.

01:02:14.560 We cannot let Michigan fall on the wrong side of this election.

01:02:18.620 So that means hitting the doors. It means making the phone calls. It means registering people to vote.

01:02:24.600 It's interesting to hear her talk. She sounds a little like Kristi Noem.

01:02:28.180 She's got the same general accent in the Midwest there.

01:02:30.940 But so she right now is standing behind him fully.

01:02:34.860 That's one of the candidates. And I'll just give you one other and then I'll get your thoughts.

01:02:38.300 But Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear, I've heard his name mentioned, he came out, was asked about replacing Biden.

01:02:45.920 And here's what he said. He didn't say, never, I'm not doing it. Shut up. Stop saying that. Listen.

01:02:53.080 Any thoughts that you might slide into that slide?

01:02:56.320 Would you if you had to?

01:02:58.560 Only the president can determine his future as a candidate.

01:03:02.400 He is the candidate. And as long as he is, I'm supporting him.

01:03:05.820 OK, that's he's from Kentucky. He beat our pal Daniel Cameron in the race for governor.

01:03:11.620 Very popular, though. Very high approval rating. So does Gretchen Whitmer. 1.00

01:03:15.260 They call her the big Gretch. Both of these two.

01:03:18.140 I don't know. They're getting a lot of buzz. And you heard him right there.

01:03:21.420 He didn't come out explicitly and say no.

01:03:24.760 Yeah, there's what you see. And then there's what's going on behind the scenes.

01:03:27.340 Even Obama said behind the scenes to be campaigning to open the trap door under Biden.

01:03:32.300 So we don't really know what's happening behind the scenes.

01:03:34.440 But first of all, you can't help but compare this to the Republican Party, where like Mike Johnson can't reach far enough behind his back to take the arrows out from his own party.

01:03:43.920 The complete disarray that you have on the right and the complete discipline, lockstep discipline that the left manufactures is very, very impressive.

01:03:52.740 But what both Whitmer and Bashir are saying basically is they're not going to be the guy to stab Biden in the back.

01:04:00.240 But if he should wake up one day and find there's a knife in his back, they would take his place.

01:04:04.400 I mean, neither of them eliminated the possibility that if Biden should step down, if the party should get rid of him, they would step in.

01:04:11.980 I mean, then they would have no discipline or loyalty problem whatsoever.

01:04:15.000 As it stands, though, they can't be the one to say get rid of them because then they look bad to the Democrats who really do prize discipline and loyalty in a way that the Republicans don't.

01:04:25.200 It's in some ways it speaks well to the Republicans, that they're a party of individualists.

01:04:29.340 On the other hand, you know, it's like you want to watch your back.

01:04:32.820 You would actually prefer to be a Democrat than a Republican.

01:04:35.160 You know, here's Sheldon Whitehouse, senator from the great state of Rhode Island, being not explicit that he needs to step down, but not a cheerleader.

01:04:45.400 Your honest reaction to the debate.

01:04:47.580 I think like a lot of people, I was pretty horrified.

01:04:50.540 Rhode Island U.S. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse tells 12 News Democrats remain united about the need to defeat former President Donald Trump.

01:04:57.360 But they're looking for reassurance from Biden and his team.

01:05:00.200 Well, I think people want to make sure that this is a campaign that's ready to go and win, that the president and his team are being candid with us about his condition, that this was a real anomaly and not just the way he is these days.

01:05:15.400 Now, that sounds like virtually everybody on CNN, MSNBC in the wake of the debate, the New York Times, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution horrified and we need assurances.

01:05:24.120 I'm not sure why he's going further, but, you know, the next week to 10 days should be very important in seeing where the messaging lands.

01:05:34.940 The White House has been, I think, rather effective in trying to steady the ship, trying to get their worst critics to be quiet and get their top Democratic, at least elected allies to either back him openly or hold their fire.

01:05:51.680 So where do you think we are 10 days, 14 days from now?

01:05:55.420 Well, you have to consider the White House is a genuine, a genuine thug.

01:05:58.840 He's the guy who kind of makes mafia like threats against the Supreme Court.

01:06:02.560 So he's the one you expect to go further than anybody else.

01:06:06.320 But clearly, clearly beneath the surface, there is a move to get rid of Biden.

01:06:11.120 He's going to have to debate again. He's promised to debate again in September.

01:06:14.460 I don't see how he can possibly do that. He's not going to be getting better.

01:06:17.560 They know it. And so I expect to see a lot of movement beneath the surface while everything looks calm on top.

01:06:23.720 The other thing is, if God forbid he has another senior moment, I mean, it's fine.

01:06:27.780 You can put him out of the prompter.

01:06:28.780 Last night he read his little speech about the Supreme Court ruling on immunity just fine, which proves he can read.

01:06:36.620 He can't have it. That's why he can't have another debate.

01:06:39.340 He can't do a sit down with 60. 0.62

01:06:41.440 He can't put out a doctor verifying that he's in perfect cognitive health so that, you know, we're still watching him.

01:06:49.640 And as you know, age only works one way.

01:06:51.760 He's not going to be younger in August or September than he is now.

01:06:55.460 They're taking a real risk here.

01:06:58.260 And you can see why many in the party base, I would say most, don't want to.

01:07:02.280 Seventy two percent of the electorate of the Democrats say he's too old to be president.

01:07:06.900 We want someone else.

01:07:07.840 That's what Carville was saying.

01:07:09.060 They want someone else.

01:07:09.820 Just give them give them something.

01:07:11.300 They don't want him.

01:07:12.700 Give it to them.

01:07:13.500 Give them what they want, which is an alternative.

01:07:16.020 And he's just too locked in on the money and the delegates now to make a move.

01:07:21.760 So, Andrew Klavan, a pleasure as always.

01:07:23.820 I hope you come back soon.

01:07:25.300 Thanks. Great to see you.

01:07:26.440 Tomorrow we're going to have National Review Day.

01:07:28.040 We're going to have Charles C.W. Cook and Michael Brendan Doherty.

01:07:31.040 They have a lot of thoughts on this whole thing and the process and the Supreme Court.

01:07:34.700 We'll get to it all.

01:07:36.240 Look forward to that.

01:07:37.840 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

01:07:41.980 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - July 02, 2024

Could Cringe Kamala Really Replace Biden, and False Media Narratives on Immunity Ruling, with Mike Davis and Andrew Klavan ｜ Ep. 828

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