The Megyn Kelly Show - COVID Confusion and Olympics Storylines, with Dr. Joel Zinberg and Juliet Huddy ｜ Ep. 135

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00:00:30.740 When I found out my friend got a great deal on a wool coat from Winners,

00:00:34.500 I started wondering, is every fabulous item I see from Winners?

00:00:39.060 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans. 1.00

00:00:41.980 Are those from Winners?

00:00:43.520 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings?

00:00:45.980 Did she pay full price?

00:00:47.300 Or that leather tote? Or that cashmere sweater?

00:00:49.560 Or those knee-high boots?

00:00:50.940 That dress? That jacket? Those shoes?

00:00:53.120 Is anyone paying full price for anything?

00:00:56.540 Stop wondering. Start winning.

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00:01:01.320 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:03.260 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:01:12.720 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:01:14.420 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:15.720 Today, we've got the latest on COVID, the Olympics, and Bill O'Reilly.

00:01:22.600 An interesting development there that Juliet Huddy's going to talk to us about. 0.96

00:01:25.780 But first, we're going to start with Dr. Joel Zinberg.

00:01:29.280 He's an MD. He's a JD.

00:01:31.320 He went to Yale Law School and he went to Columbia University Med School.

00:01:35.040 And this guy is saying, would you just calm down?

00:01:37.960 Just stop the panic over the Delta variant? 1.00

00:01:40.100 You're ridiculous. 0.97

00:01:41.300 There is no reason to be forcing new mandates when it comes to masks, when it comes to vaccines based on Delta. 0.99

00:01:47.960 And so why are they doing this?

00:01:50.200 And why does he say we need to get back to reason and calm and that this is sort of an invented crisis?

00:01:58.380 Well, we just heard, like literally a minute ago, that the CDC, according to the New York Times, is about to recommend that, quote, some vaccinated people wear masks indoors again.

00:02:08.240 We're already seeing it happen in several cities, thus removing a large incentive that a lot of people had in getting the vaccine.

00:02:17.220 I know people say, well, if you get it, you get it to save your life.

00:02:19.900 Well, most of us don't fear losing our lives from COVID.

00:02:22.620 If you're not over the age of 65, it's not really a reasonable fear.

00:02:25.440 And really, if you're not over the age of, you know, 75, the percentages are very low of people who actually die from COVID.

00:02:31.940 So why? So why should they get vaccinated?

00:02:34.200 Well, you have to find a way to incentivize them.

00:02:35.800 Maybe maybe they don't have to wear the mask anymore.

00:02:37.500 They don't have to worry about that nonsense.

00:02:38.880 That's something most anti-vax people hate.

00:02:41.540 Well, they're going another way.

00:02:43.400 And now we're going to get some new recommendation that even if you get the vaccine, you should also have a mask on.

00:02:48.160 It's absurd.

00:02:49.460 Anyway, we're going to get into it with a doctor who's of reason and and get his thoughts.

00:02:54.840 And then Juliette's going to join us. 0.99

00:02:56.260 My pal Juliette Huddy from Fox News, who has got an update on what's happening with the Olympics.

00:03:01.020 Simone Biles just kind of falling apart. 1.00

00:03:03.580 What happened there?

00:03:04.360 That's a bummer.

00:03:05.640 And all this controversy over women's outfits on the handball team.

00:03:10.500 I didn't know that was a thing, but it is.

00:03:12.300 And the gymnastics competitions now.

00:03:15.700 Are they should they not have to wear those leotards?

00:03:18.100 These are all becoming things.

00:03:19.500 And then we will talk to her about Bill O'Reilly's original accuser.

00:03:23.960 This woman, Andrea Macris, has finally broken her silence after 17 years.

00:03:28.120 And the war between those two is back on in earnest.

00:03:31.800 Juliette brought her own allegations against Bill O'Reilly and received a settlement from Fox News and just happened that she was coming on today. 0.80

00:03:37.920 So she's the perfect person to ask about it.

00:03:39.960 It's kind of interesting.

00:03:40.880 Macris went on on the record.

00:03:42.780 You'll hear her voice.

00:03:43.880 And I don't know.

00:03:45.260 This is tough.

00:03:46.080 These women who sign these NDAs in these sexual harassment cases don't believe that they should be silenced. 1.00

00:03:52.180 And, you know, Juliette's got a point on this.

00:03:54.120 But these NDAs often protect women in those positions, not just the guy signing it, but but the women as well.

00:04:01.560 And do we really want them going away?

00:04:03.920 Right.

00:04:04.120 And by the way, if it goes away for one party, it goes away for both.

00:04:06.280 And then it's on.

00:04:07.140 Right.

00:04:07.380 It can be a verbal war.

00:04:09.520 And that doesn't always iner the benefit of either party.

00:04:12.560 We're going to get into all of that.

00:04:13.520 That's today.

00:04:14.380 You're going to love the show.

00:04:15.220 Very interesting, provocative, thoughtful.

00:04:17.260 Here we go.

00:04:17.720 One minute away.

00:04:24.440 Dr. Zinberg, thank you so much for being here.

00:04:27.000 Thank you for having me.

00:04:28.480 OK, so we're starting to see it already.

00:04:31.220 Indoor mask mandates returning, even for the vaccinated in Los Angeles, now in Las Vegas, in St. Louis, and maybe again soon in New York City.

00:04:42.940 And you say, stop the panic.

00:04:46.560 Just stop this.

00:04:47.620 This is not necessary over the Delta variant.

00:04:50.400 Why?

00:04:51.560 Well, because we know that the Delta variant is susceptible to the vaccines.

00:04:57.400 Every study seems to indicate that the authorized vaccines protect against Delta as well as they protect against the other variants.

00:05:07.080 We also know that Delta is no more deadly than the other variants.

00:05:10.800 In other words, if you come down with COVID, you're no more likely to end up in the hospital or to die than the other variants.

00:05:17.060 So what we have is a situation where the people who are most vulnerable, that is the elderly people over 65, are extremely well protected.

00:05:28.960 You have nearly all of them have gotten at least one shot, which provides significant protection, although not as much as the two-shot regimen.

00:05:36.840 And 80% have received the full two-shot regimen.

00:05:40.400 So those folks who have far and away the most severe cases and account for more than 80% of deaths, those people are protected.

00:05:48.600 Let me just stop you right there just to reiterate those numbers.

00:05:51.300 80% of the COVID deaths have been in the senior population.

00:05:56.400 80% of seniors today have received the full vaccination.

00:06:01.080 And 90% have received at least one shot.

00:06:05.380 So your point is that population, the most vulnerable population, is extremely well protected right now versus where we were a year ago.

00:06:15.720 That's absolutely correct.

00:06:17.500 And moreover, if you look at the population that's eligible for vaccination, people over age 12, you've got nearly 60% of those people are fully vaccinated.

00:06:28.620 And about two-thirds of them have received a single injection.

00:06:32.720 So those people are reasonably well protected.

00:06:37.980 So, you know, the only people who are not getting at the moment full protection from the vaccines are people 12 and under.

00:06:46.220 And the reality is that age 18 and less form a tiny, minuscule percentage of people who've been severely affected by COVID.

00:06:56.700 If you are a healthy young person, COVID, while I'm not suggesting you want to get COVID, you certainly would want to avoid getting it, does not prevent the kind of severe health threat that it poses to older people or to people with medical comorbidities.

00:07:14.300 So what you're seeing, you know, what you're seeing is that the folks who are most vulnerable are protected.

00:07:20.940 The folks who remain vulnerable are probably not going to get severe disease.

00:07:27.540 And you're also seeing that people are starting to react to the rising cases that are due to the Delta variant.

00:07:34.000 And the rate of vaccinations has started to tick up again.

00:07:37.860 And that's completely normal.

00:07:39.060 That's what you would expect, that people respond to the risk.

00:07:41.600 So what you mean there is that in the cities where we're seeing a rise in cases and hospitalizations, you're also seeing a rise in vaccination rates.

00:07:52.040 That's correct.

00:07:53.180 That's correct.

00:07:53.800 And that's been, you know, frankly, an issue from the start, that most of the modeling, most of the people who were pushing lockdowns didn't want to account for people's individual behaviors in response to the risk of infectious disease.

00:08:09.440 And economists have known for a very long time that people actually do respond to incentives.

00:08:14.160 They do respond to risk and multiple studies have shown that people began to alter their behavior by staying home, by avoiding crowded areas, by not going to stores that would involve close contact before any kind of lockdowns were instituted.

00:08:34.660 And that, you know, all the studies have indicated, multiple studies have indicated that when you compare the impact of individual behavior with the impact of lockdowns, the individual behavior happened first and was far more important.

00:09:01.660 But the problem is the people doing the modeling from the start have been somewhat alarmist.

00:09:07.320 They overpredicted the number of deaths.

00:09:09.380 They overpredicted the number of hospitalizations and raised this specter of hospitals being overburdened and collapsing because they failed to account for the individual behaviors.

00:09:20.940 But you're now starting to see that again in response to Delta variants.

00:09:25.320 Cities and localities that have high rates are responding.

00:09:29.780 Hospitals are responding by changing their allocation of resources.

00:09:36.020 So what you saw, for example, early in the spring surge in New York City at my hospital, Mount Sinai, is that they were ingenious.

00:09:45.140 They found nooks and crannies to put beds.

00:09:48.320 They turned recovery rooms into ICUs.

00:09:51.180 They cut back on elective surgeries and elective procedures, all independent of what the government was doing.

00:10:00.300 And that's sort of what you're starting to see now in response to Delta.

00:10:03.740 But the good news is, and the reason I said don't panic, the sky is not falling, is because if you look at the curves of numbers of cases, numbers of hospitalizations, numbers of deaths,

00:10:17.020 those all peaked in January of this year, and it's been a steady downhill course since then.

00:10:24.640 What you're seeing now in July is an uptick in the number of cases, but the number of hospitalization increasing has been much more modest.

00:10:35.560 And the number of deaths is basically plateauing.

00:10:38.520 It's not continuing to decline, but you're not seeing a big jump there.

00:10:41.980 And, you know, we're three, four weeks into this Delta surge.

00:10:45.880 So when I look at the number of deaths, to pick up on what you said, we're basically at 269 as of today.

00:10:54.620 That's basically where we are, about 269 people dying a day in America from this.

00:11:00.720 About a year ago, it was a thousand deaths a day, a thousand.

00:11:04.360 So, I mean, significantly bigger.

00:11:06.900 And I guess the people who want these lockdowns would look at 269 and say, that's still too many.

00:11:13.460 We have to stop that number from being as high as it is.

00:11:17.520 So clearly still, there's some in the elderly population who are in there, and there's some below 65 who are in there.

00:11:24.580 And so, you know, you always get we have to do our part to prevent the spread so we can get that number down considerably lower than 269.

00:11:32.400 I mean, I would say any death is, you know, that we can prevent is lamentable.

00:11:38.900 And I would encourage everyone to be vaccinated unless they have some sort of contraindication to being vaccinated.

00:11:45.840 But we're at a markedly different place than we were just six months ago and where we were a year ago.

00:11:53.240 And, you know, the sky is not falling here.

00:11:55.800 How does that number grab you, 269 deaths today?

00:11:59.840 I mean, understanding we don't want any.

00:12:02.020 But how does that compare, as far as you know, to other illnesses?

00:12:06.160 You know, can you can you give us a perspective on just how bad it is?

00:12:10.460 Well, look, every year we have a flu season, influenza.

00:12:14.200 And, you know, somewhere between 20 to 60,000 or sometimes even more people die from that.

00:12:22.860 And we don't go crazy.

00:12:25.560 You know, we we carry on.

00:12:28.320 We have vaccines.

00:12:29.500 Unfortunately, their people don't avail themselves of the vaccines either.

00:12:33.680 And I would encourage them to to get the flu shot.

00:12:36.360 But we don't go nuts.

00:12:37.640 And the interesting thing, of course, is that with flu, that's a disease that's affects sort of a broader range of people.

00:12:46.800 You know, at the outset of COVID, no one really knew exactly who was going to which age groups, which demographics were going to be affected.

00:12:56.700 But it became clear pretty quickly that younger age groups were not impacted the way they are with many other diseases.

00:13:04.320 So that's why I was alluding to earlier when I said that younger people don't seem to be impacted in the way they do for other diseases.

00:13:15.080 So if you look at age 18 and below, you have something like 350 deaths, which, granted, a horrible thing if you're one of those people or the family of one of those people.

00:13:26.500 But you're talking about, you know, 70 million people in the population fall into that age group more or less.

00:13:34.320 And to have 350 deaths, you know, is not an outrageous thing.

00:13:40.960 We'd like to prevent those, but it's not like, you know, you're talking about less than a tenth of a percent of COVID deaths are in that younger age group where it was.

00:13:49.820 Yeah, that's total, total over the course of the pandemic versus.

00:13:52.960 That's correct.

00:13:53.820 Well, versus 81 percent and versus 81 percent for the 65 and older.

00:13:58.520 And just to look at the numbers, it says that, indeed, according to the CDC, among children, the mortality risk for COVID is lower than it is from the flu.

00:14:08.860 And that they say it's less than you have less risk if you're under age 18 of dying from COVID than you do of dying from pneumonia, of dying in a car crash, of dying from drowning, of dying from heart disease, of dying from suicide, of dying from homicide, of dying from a birth defect.

00:14:26.840 We could go on. And yet still we're at a situation here where we're looking at not just mandatory vaccine or mandatory mask mandates returning, returning to cities, but schools.

00:14:39.060 You know, we're we're moving to Connecticut. The Connecticut governor still has a mask mandate in place for all children inside schools.

00:14:47.080 And so when our kids go back in September, they're going to have to wear masks.

00:14:51.120 Our little kids in the single digits and, you know, 10 and 11.

00:14:56.700 For what? Right. For what?

00:14:58.240 There was a great piece in New York magazine last week saying we we the kids are safe.

00:15:03.220 They always have been. This is theater.

00:15:05.900 Well, look, if you look there, there have been some studies published in the New England Journal coming out of Sweden and coming out of Iceland.

00:15:15.100 And, you know, Sweden was was criticized consistently throughout this pandemic for not taking enough actions, not requiring lockdowns, not requiring masks in schools.

00:15:26.960 But what they found is they had one point eight million kids in schools over several months period and not a single kid died.

00:15:35.880 And and the risk of of infection and death for the teachers was no higher in school than it was in multiple other occupations.

00:15:45.520 So the schools were not where it was a problem. And same thing was seen in Iceland.

00:15:50.520 You did not have high rates of of disease and deaths.

00:15:56.840 It's certainly severe illnesses in among school children or among the school population.

00:16:02.260 And we've seen out here. I mean, every indication is that schools are not where transmission would be taking place and that the cases that are being seen in schools are cases that were probably brought in from the outside.

00:16:19.100 People were infected outside the school, came to school.

00:16:22.120 And that's where the diagnosis took place.

00:16:24.140 That's not where the disease is transmission.

00:16:26.140 Why don't our health officials sound like you? Right.

00:16:29.640 Why does the American Academy of Pediatrics say the kids should all be masked if they're over age two, even if you have a kid who you've chosen to have vaccinated, they should be masked.

00:16:39.920 And, you know, Fauci taking it beyond children, saying, yeah, you know what?

00:16:44.220 We're we're seriously looking at back at mandatory masks coming back, even for the vaccinated.

00:16:51.440 We think that's where our public health officials are going to land. 0.79

00:16:53.820 And that and even though a former Biden administration, his former covid-19 response coordinator, the guy just left the office, said we're going to look at more vaccine mandates.

00:17:02.260 They're very likely coming soon.

00:17:04.340 We think that they should be at the municipal level, level, the state level.

00:17:08.560 Employers should do it. 0.88

00:17:09.620 Venues, government agencies.

00:17:11.360 So we're hearing from our public health officials.

00:17:14.380 Mask mandates are returning.

00:17:16.040 Vaccine mandates are returning.

00:17:17.920 That that doesn't reflect anything you just said.

00:17:20.260 Well, you know, for what's the purpose of a mask?

00:17:24.980 The purpose of a mask is either to prevent the spread of disease or to protect you from becoming infected.

00:17:32.140 If you vaccinated, you have very high protection.

00:17:37.180 You probably do not need a mask.

00:17:38.960 All the approved vaccine, excuse me, authorized vaccines are seem to protect against the transmission of disease quite well, better than any influenza vaccine we've had in recent years.

00:17:53.740 Moreover, in the cases where people have so-called breakthrough infections, where they become infected after being vaccinated.

00:18:01.900 The cases are nearly uniformly very mild.

00:18:06.760 The viral titers those people have are lower, so they present less of a risk to transmit it to others.

00:18:13.300 So it doesn't really make much sense for people who are vaccinated to have to wear masks.

00:18:22.040 And yet here we are.

00:18:24.980 Can we talk about the effectiveness of the vaccines?

00:18:27.180 I know you're saying the vaccines are effective against Delta.

00:18:29.540 They are. And they're not increasing the death rate as some feared it would.

00:18:36.480 But there was a headline in The New York Times this week saying that Pfizer has proven to be less effective versus Delta, that the effective rate was 95 percent in preventing systematic infection.

00:18:49.320 And now it's down to 84 percent after four to six months looking at what's happened, I guess, in Israel.

00:18:56.080 They said that that Pfizer's vaccine was just 39 percent effective in preventing infection in that country in late June and early July compared to 95 percent effective in January to April.

00:19:08.940 So should you be worried in particular if you have Pfizer, if the Pfizer vaccine about Delta?

00:19:15.800 Well, look, the Pfizer vaccine is the most well studied because it forms the largest part of the vaccines that have been administered.

00:19:26.900 And it's also very well studied because the country of Israel undertook with Pfizer to study their results very early on.

00:19:35.660 And they have a terrific database there and they're following it very closely.

00:19:40.560 But this is all very preliminary.

00:19:42.480 I mean, what seems clear is that the two dose vaccines, the Pfizer and Moderna, probably are not as effective after a single dose for Delta as they are against other variants.

00:19:54.760 But they still remain highly effective after the second dose, the figure you cited coming out of Israel is very preliminary data.

00:20:04.140 So it's hard to know if that's going to hold up.

00:20:09.040 But every indication here is that the vaccines remain highly effective.

00:20:13.920 And the thing, the effectiveness that you have to be looking at is not so much necessarily the interfering with disease transmission, but how effective is it against coming down with a severe case of COVID that requires hospitalization or ICU admission, intubation or potentially leading to death?

00:20:36.060 And there it seems to be that the vaccines remain highly effective.

00:20:39.620 So we're not seeing the surge in the hospitalizations like we did last spring and in the winter.

00:20:46.380 You're seeing surges in isolated areas.

00:20:49.600 Look, you know, right from the start, I referred to this before, the modeling that was was undertaken by many epidemiologists was severely flawed because they didn't account for individual responses.

00:21:02.760 So, you know, the Imperial College of London model back in March of 2020 was predicting the hospitals would be overrun by April, that we'd have 2.2 million deaths by July.

00:21:15.900 And yet, if you really read their study, we saw they acknowledged that, oh, you know, they didn't, they acknowledged that they didn't take into account individual responses and they knew that they would be involved.

00:21:30.320 So we're not seeing, we didn't see widespread hospital problems then.

00:21:35.740 You saw isolated instances here in New York, for example, we saw isolated instances, but you also saw hospitals like, like mine, Mount Sinai, that very, very readily and do a terrific job.

00:21:48.340 And you're seeing occasional instances here.

00:21:50.820 There are some hospitals in Missouri who are having difficulties.

00:21:54.180 But I think, you know, at the end of the day, this is going to be a problem for a few weeks.

00:22:00.540 And I think, again, people will start to react by changing their behaviors, by increasing their vaccinations.

00:22:09.140 And, of course, no one knows if there won't be another variant.

00:22:12.580 We know there are other variants out there.

00:22:14.820 The new variants may be even more transmissible.

00:22:18.140 They may become more deadly.

00:22:20.000 That's why it's important for people to get vaccinated.

00:22:22.800 So we limit the circulation of the virus and limit the opportunity for new variants to occur.

00:22:30.160 But at the moment, it is not really the sky is falling type of situation.

00:22:38.180 It sounds like Dr. Fauci and some others are trying to make it out to be.

00:22:43.160 Up next, we're going to ask the good doctor about what's happening now with the unvaccinated. 1.00

00:22:48.920 They're being treated like the unwashed, right?

00:22:51.180 Like they're being publicly criticized, ostracized.

00:22:55.060 I don't know.

00:22:55.520 It's making me kind of uncomfortable.

00:22:56.840 I got to be honest.

00:22:57.620 So what does he think about people who choose not to get the vaccine?

00:23:00.720 And we'll also ask him about how that vaccine hesitancy came around to begin with.

00:23:05.640 He was paying attention to what Kamala Harris said, to what the Biden campaign said, and has a different view of how we got here.

00:23:11.740 That's next.

00:23:12.160 We've had a lot of attention in the past couple of weeks on the unvaccinated.

00:23:20.040 You know, they're being publicly shamed.

00:23:22.040 They're being attacked.

00:23:23.140 They're being socially ostracized.

00:23:25.480 I mean, it's it's kind of I don't know.

00:23:28.040 To me, it's a little alarming what's happening to people who make their own medical choice about their own body.

00:23:32.360 I'm vaccinated, but I respect people who've made a different choice, especially when they've had covid.

00:23:39.380 I mean, we're we're now making people who had covid get vaccinated.

00:23:43.080 And my own doctor had told me early on in this whole thing, that's not necessary.

00:23:48.440 That isn't necessary.

00:23:49.420 You have natural immunity anyway.

00:23:51.780 So what do you make of the of the number of people in the country who have chosen not to get vaccinated and the increasing push to shame them?

00:23:59.140 Look, I wouldn't shame anyone.

00:24:01.560 I would try to speak to them, convince them.

00:24:05.560 And I think what you've seen over time is that more and more people who in these original polling had said they had doubts about it, have moved over to get vaccinated.

00:24:17.640 But, you know, there's been a lot of study of what makes people vaccine hesitant, what what goes into their decision, whether it be vaccinated or not.

00:24:29.180 And the and the considerations fall into two major areas.

00:24:33.280 The first is that people are want to know and they're concerned about vaccine safety.

00:24:38.540 And the second area is they want to know how effective the vaccines, what's the need for it?

00:24:45.600 Do I really need it?

00:24:46.620 And, you know, unfortunately, we had about six months leading up to the election of highly politicized responses to the vaccine development.

00:24:58.120 So you have, you know, the Biden campaign, Kamala Harris coming out and casting doubt on how safe the vaccine would be, how effective it would be.

00:25:09.460 Kamala Harris said she wouldn't take a vaccine that was developed under President Trump.

00:25:14.380 Andrew Cuomo, or the governor here in New York, was saying he wouldn't trust a vaccine under developed under Trump.

00:25:22.660 He was going to have state authorities look into it, form their own conclusion.

00:25:27.480 The same but state authorities, by the way, that, you know, did the magnificent policy move of sending positive COVID cases back into nursing homes.

00:25:36.960 These were going to be the people who were going to do a better job at assessing than the FDA.

00:25:43.060 Chuck Schumer, our senator from New York, cast out on the FDA saying he didn't think they were independent.

00:25:49.120 He wouldn't trust it.

00:25:50.140 Every time President Trump came out and said, we're moving along, we're going to have a vaccine by the end of the year, the media came down on him, calling him a nut job, another choice.

00:26:03.940 But that's so, you know, and you even had science coming on board, you know, many official scientific publications and societies, but unfortunately, we're casting doubt.

00:26:17.080 There was an editorial in JAMA, the Journal of the American Medical Association, that was casting doubt on the FDA's independence and whether a vaccine developed under the Trump administration would be safe.

00:26:28.980 So when you have this constellation of political figures, media figures, medical and scientific figures all casting doubt, it's not a huge surprise that people had some sort of doubts about safety.

00:26:43.820 Then all of a sudden, as soon as the election was over, vaccines were the greatest thing since sliced bread for those folks.

00:26:50.020 So true.

00:26:50.980 That's such a great point.

00:26:52.020 I mean, this has been one of my own lamentations about the state of our media and now, in the broader sense, the medical community, community, because it's it's all been so politicized.

00:27:02.220 People don't know where to turn for valid, trustworthy information on public health.

00:27:08.500 Fauci has been he's reversed himself so many times that he's not trusted anymore, certainly not by the right.

00:27:15.620 The CDC, same the WHO, with that ridiculous report, clearing China of, you know, having releases from a lab. 0.90

00:27:25.220 And I mean, that was absurd.

00:27:26.300 People are they distrust these organizations now and even the greater scientific community.

00:27:31.500 I think things like, you know, what's happening with trans kids and that, you know, you just affirm and then you perform surgery without questioning. 1.00

00:27:38.500 People are starting to distrust doctors in a way they didn't before because they see them as more politically driven, more agenda driven and less driven by just pure data, you know, that's coming back to them in terms of public health.

00:27:52.400 And the media, too, the way they hated Trump, every every story that might reflect negatively on him, including covid was played to the nth degree and people would start discounting the information.

00:28:05.700 All of these deteriorations in trust of these institutions that used to be at least higher, more highly regarded than they are today, have real life consequences.

00:28:15.200 And now those same groups look around and say, I don't understand.

00:28:19.460 Why don't the people trust us when we tell them they should take the vaccines during the pandemic?

00:28:24.880 And over the summer, you had groups that said any kind of public gathering of more than minimal amounts of people is dangerous, risks that just cannot be taken.

00:28:40.420 And then as soon as there were George Floyd demonstrations, not only were those risks tolerable, but you had large groups of medical professionals signing on to letters, encouraging people to participate in those demonstrations.

00:28:56.020 Now, you know, one can, you know, I'm not suggesting that, you know, people shouldn't be allowed to demonstrate.

00:29:02.760 I think they should and they should be able to exercise their First Amendment rights, but the medical risk had nothing to do with what your political views were.

00:29:11.460 And that's unfortunately what it often became.

00:29:14.140 And it's it's really galling for that same group of people, the media, the medical professionals to now turn around and say people who have vaccine hesitancy are a bunch of rubes whose lives must be dictated by us. 0.98

00:29:29.620 You know, the elect, the elite, because they're too dumb to understand what's good for them. 0.98

00:29:34.180 Right. It's like you spend your life deteriorating, the relationship, the trust. 0.99

00:29:40.140 I don't know the respect that these people once had for you.

00:29:43.300 And then it's the boy who cried wolf situation when when you really need them to trust you.

00:29:48.760 They no longer do. And instead of trying to take some responsibility for that, what we're seeing is just more dismissal of these groups as just too stupid. 1.00

00:29:59.020 And an urge for a harder hand of government, a heavier hand of government to step in. 0.99

00:30:05.560 Right. Like what's going to need to happen is the officials in Vegas or the officials in St.

00:30:10.780 Louis are going to have to show you what's good for you.

00:30:13.360 And I don't know you tell me as a matter of public health whether that's going to work.

00:30:18.120 I think people resist that. And obviously we want to try to avoid mandates if at all possible.

00:30:24.500 And, you know, the good news here is that COVID is obviously a serious disease.

00:30:31.640 It's killed over 600,000 people, but it is not Ebola.

00:30:37.100 It is not a disease that kills half of the people that get infected.

00:30:42.060 It doesn't you know, we one has to gauge the response that's necessary depending on how severe the illness is.

00:30:50.580 And since we've now protected those who are most vulnerable, the push for mandates becomes less important than it was before.

00:31:00.060 You know, the one area that I think still is potentially an area where we're going to have to resort to mandates are our medical professionals.

00:31:09.140 And you're seeing that increasingly with hospitals around the country.

00:31:14.280 The VA have just come out and suggested that their staff is going to have to be vaccinated for the next eight weeks.

00:31:22.600 New York City has announced that staff at public hospitals are going to have to be vaccinated.

00:31:29.080 This is an area where, you know, you're dealing with vulnerable patient populations.

00:31:33.140 People who have cancer, people who have immunosuppressed for other reasons, the elderly who, you know, have all sorts of comorbidities.

00:31:42.140 These people need to be protected against having becoming infected from the staff that's trying to treat them.

00:31:49.400 So this is an area where you can argue that there is a case to be made for mandates as long as, you know, we allow people to opt out if there's a legitimate medical reason to opt out, if there's some other legitimate reason, or if we make some kind of effort to accommodate them, whether that means consistently wearing masks or undergoing frequent testing.

00:32:11.740 But this is an area where mandates may make some sense.

00:32:16.740 So thus far, what you've seen is that among medical professionals, physicians are highly vaccinated, you know, all well over 90 percent vaccinated.

00:32:25.740 But unfortunately, it's less so among other medical professionals, including nurses, who are probably only about 60 percent or so vaccinated and other medical professionals even less.

00:32:36.740 So, you know, when I have a relative who's in a nursing facility where they're with a lot of other people and they see staff every day, I'd like to have some assurance that the staff taking care of them is vaccinated.

00:32:53.740 So what let me ask you about the vaccine themselves, because, you know, we've had we've had a lot of people within the African-American community, Latino community and amongst Republicans.

00:33:06.820 Sure. Who say, I don't believe it is safe.

00:33:10.740 You know, I know what the officials are saying, but I also have eyes and ears and can see that this is new.

00:33:15.740 It's still technically experimental.

00:33:18.100 Obviously, by definition, there's been no long term studies because they just came up with it within the past year.

00:33:22.980 And, you know, I'm young and relatively healthy and therefore I just don't think I want to do it.

00:33:28.400 Right. That's that's what you hear from a lot of people.

00:33:31.000 So do you worry about any of those things?

00:33:34.020 Right. Like I confess I had some worries.

00:33:36.580 I got vaccinated. My husband and I have Pfizer, but I have some worries and I my own worries were assuaged when I thought you've got such huge percentages of the population getting vaccinated.

00:33:47.840 God forbid there is some massive downside to the vaccines that manifests five years from now.

00:33:53.940 Those same people are going to solve it, because if they don't, you're going to have hundreds of millions of people affected around the globe with some horrible thing.

00:34:02.440 I mean, they just it's just the way innovation works.

00:34:04.820 But what is your thought and what is your message to people who have these concerns?

00:34:08.680 I'm a surgeon. I got vaccinated as soon as I could.

00:34:13.120 My wife is a physician. She got vaccinated as soon as she could.

00:34:16.680 My daughter is almost 20. She got vaccinated as soon as she could.

00:34:20.300 But I would I think it's it. This has been heavily studied.

00:34:24.380 This the the original studies were quite large.

00:34:27.800 And now you have an experience that's stretching over, say, nine months or more like about six, seven months with hundreds of millions of people having been vaccinated.

00:34:38.500 And there's really no indication that there's any kind of widespread side effects.

00:34:44.360 Sure. You know, you your arm hurts. Many people report they they get flu life symptoms the next day after the second shot.

00:34:52.700 But you're not seeing, you know, with the exception of some extremely rare side effects, you're not seeing any widespread side effect that that should give people pause.

00:35:04.440 You know, that doesn't mean that everyone's going to want to do it.

00:35:08.340 And as long as we have a we protect the vulnerable and between the number of people who are vaccinated, the people who have natural immunity, we have a large group of people who are immune.

00:35:21.180 We're probably going to do all right as a society.

00:35:24.640 Nevertheless, I would still urge people to think it's safe.

00:35:28.680 Don't believe what you heard during the election.

00:35:32.380 From Kamala Harris.

00:35:34.060 From Kamala Harris and from the Biden campaign.

00:35:37.440 I mean, you can go back.

00:35:38.140 I don't know if it's still up, but the Biden campaign website had stuff disparaging vaccine development.

00:35:45.080 So don't believe that stuff.

00:35:48.000 And unfortunately, we've had one or two instances where I understand the impulse for being safe that the CDC had.

00:35:56.780 But I think they helped undermine people's confidence a little bit with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.

00:36:04.020 That's right.

00:36:04.440 And when they had the pause for 10, 11 days dealing with the blood clots in the brain situation, which, in fact, was really like a one in a million kind of complication.

00:36:16.920 It wasn't clear that it was any more common than when if you were vaccinated versus getting the disease.

00:36:23.840 There's background incidents in the population of this happening.

00:36:27.020 That's, again, very rare, but, again, not so clearly lower, much lower than when we got the vaccine.

00:36:34.580 Yet they added an abundance of overabundance of caution.

00:36:38.540 And they paused it.

00:36:39.960 And I think that crippled the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.

00:36:42.800 And then, of course, they announced more recently that the Johnson & Johnson vaccine had some episodes of Guillain-Barre, which is a neurological condition, which is known to happen in many vaccines.

00:36:56.620 So, again, you know, they did the right thing in terms of letting people know.

00:37:02.040 But on the other hand, they've made it what could be a fabulous vaccine because it only requires a single shot.

00:37:09.600 It doesn't require the specialized transportation and freezers that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines require.

00:37:17.080 They've made that into a vaccine that no one really seems to want to take, which is unfortunate.

00:37:22.280 And people need to realize, too, that, you know, long COVID could be with you for a very long time and can really impact the quality of your life.

00:37:29.900 And so you've got to weigh, you know, getting COVID is no walk in the park for a lot of people, even if you're young.

00:37:35.180 Getting COVID is worse, is much worse than getting the vaccine.

00:37:39.320 I think that that has not been hammered home enough.

00:37:42.020 And I think we need more of the leaders in the community.

00:37:45.840 And, you know, frankly, I think President Trump deserves tremendous credit for developing the vaccine.

00:37:53.000 I think most of the country does not realize what an achievement it was to develop three new vaccines in under a year for a brand new disease.

00:38:05.460 That's unheard of, unprecedented.

00:38:07.600 It never happened.

00:38:09.240 He deserves tremendous credit for that.

00:38:10.840 But I think he could do a tremendous public service by coming out and promoting the vaccines, telling people that he that he got it, that it's safe, that you should get it, too.

00:38:21.200 I think that would that would be extremely helpful.

00:38:23.740 Yeah, the media said it would take a miracle for a vaccine as fast as Trump got it done.

00:38:28.580 But, you know, and now everything's political.

00:38:30.920 And so he doesn't really want to do something, I think, that's going to help Biden.

00:38:34.300 And, you know, some Republicans are skeptical.

00:38:36.380 So it's all about political messaging when you involve politicians.

00:38:39.120 Last question, as the mother of three kids who are now 8, 10 and 11, they're not yet eligible for the vaccine, but my 11-year-old soon will be.

00:38:48.980 And they're lowering the number.

00:38:51.120 You know, Pfizer is doing tests now on five-year-olds and up, and they're saying it could be even lower than that soon.

00:38:57.120 For me, that's where I draw the line.

00:38:58.820 I am not prepared to give my kids this vaccine.

00:39:00.860 It's just too young and too quick.

00:39:04.000 You know, we don't know enough about it yet.

00:39:06.360 I'm not, you know, I want to know more.

00:39:09.700 I just the majority of Americans feel as I do, according to the polls.

00:39:12.640 But I know you're a father.

00:39:14.360 Your daughter's older.

00:39:15.180 But what do you say to people like me who have significant vaccine hesitancy when it comes to our kids?

00:39:21.700 Right.

00:39:21.940 No, I think that is something that parents are going to have to wrestle with on an individual basis.

00:39:29.080 And, you know, the government now appears to be asking Pfizer and Moderna to increase the size of their trials, said that, in kids under 12.

00:39:40.980 And, you know, to me, that indicates two things.

00:39:44.100 First, they're being very safe.

00:39:46.900 And I think that's completely appropriate because whenever they approve something like this that's going to be administered on a mass scale,

00:39:53.420 they have to balance the benefits and risks.

00:39:55.720 And we know the risks are quite low in that age group.

00:39:59.580 So you want to bend over backwards to make sure that, you know, that you're not going to expose kids to a risk of a vaccine when the risk of getting the actual disease is pretty low.

00:40:15.300 So that's number one.

00:40:17.120 Number two, it means that we're probably not going to see these vaccines approve for quite some time.

00:40:23.360 I mean, Pfizer was predicting that they would have data on the 5 to 11-year-old group by the end of September.

00:40:31.180 And then in the succeeding months, they'd have data on the other even younger age groups.

00:40:38.100 That's probably going to be pushed back.

00:40:40.680 And Moderna, it was talking about the end of 2021 or maybe 2022 is when they would have their data.

00:40:49.640 If they have to expand their trials, that means that we're probably not going to see the data.

00:40:56.020 They have to first complete the trials, present the data.

00:40:59.280 Then the FDA has to go through the emergency use authorization process, which can take several weeks.

00:41:05.780 So we're not going to see those very soon.

00:41:07.760 Certainly not in time for the school year.

00:41:10.100 So, you know, by that time, we'll probably know a lot more and we'll have a lot better data.

00:41:17.620 But at the end of the day, it's going to be an individual decision with parents speaking to their pediatricians for their kids.

00:41:25.320 Each kid may present a unique problem because there are some kids that have underlying medical problems that make them more susceptible to COVID.

00:41:33.400 There are many other kids who don't have those problems, but may present certain circumstances, which would indicate the vaccine is or is not appropriate for them.

00:41:45.560 Those are going to be decisions that parents are going to have to wrestle with.

00:41:49.360 But it's going to be many months, I think, into the future.

00:41:53.860 Yeah. Well, and in the meantime, they're going to be masking our kids as if that's necessary.

00:41:59.260 It's just infuriating to so many parents.

00:42:01.060 We're just kind of over this whole thing.

00:42:02.960 But listen, Dr. Joel Zinberg, I appreciate you coming on and giving us the straight scoop.

00:42:07.940 I mean, it's impressive that you have a J.D. and an M.D.

00:42:11.140 So you can see it.

00:42:12.440 You can understand the legal challenges that will come from these massive mandates if they if they do what the Biden administration official said they're going to do, you know, push the mandates at the city level, at the state level from your employer.

00:42:24.380 Oh, you know what?

00:42:24.940 Before I let you go, that reminds me, I did want to ask you one other thing.

00:42:27.840 So I've gotten the vaccine.

00:42:29.760 And if I have to show a vaccine pass, if I have to show my little card, what good does that do?

00:42:35.100 You know, I mean, I could go fake that card tomorrow if I wanted.

00:42:37.420 This is a little piece of paper.

00:42:38.420 And it got me thinking as a lawyer myself, could these are these employers allowed to access whatever government database has got my vaccination proof in it, too?

00:42:47.980 Because when I went to CVS, you know, they they typed all that information in.

00:42:51.680 And I wonder whether that's can the government snoop in that way?

00:42:55.300 I mean, realistically, what kind of proof could they require of you that you're vaccinated?

00:42:58.860 Well, I mean, this was an issue simply because around the world, people are talking about vaccine passports.

00:43:06.440 Many of the European nations are starting their own programs to create credentials.

00:43:13.760 Many of the airlines are interested in this.

00:43:15.900 They don't want to allow people flying.

00:43:18.240 It seems to go internationally.

00:43:20.680 You're probably going to have to show some sort of credential.

00:43:23.420 The major problem is that there is no one credential that is accepted and is tamper proof, which is what you alluded to.

00:43:35.940 So I have my card from the CDC.

00:43:38.740 You probably have yours.

00:43:40.100 But there have been instances of people apparently trying to fake that.

00:43:46.020 There's only so much you can do.

00:43:47.720 But, you know, this is actually an area where if it becomes important that we have these sorts of credentials, that if it becomes necessary to travel, necessary to go into certain places, that the government, by promulgating standards that would be widely accepted, that would not lend themselves to counterfeiting, they could do a tremendous service.

00:44:15.100 And I'm not saying the government should require, I'm saying the government should adopt the standards that a lot of different private groups are developing, you know, software makers and developers who are really good at this kind of stuff.

00:44:32.160 And they are trying to gauge the market and develop their own thing.

00:44:36.220 So IBM, for example, has a blockchain product that they're utilizing.

00:44:41.000 So if the government can step in and say, these are the few products that we think are good, and we're proposing that if you're going to have this sort of credential, these are the standards we think would work, that would actually be a service as opposed to requiring it.

00:44:59.220 Interesting.

00:45:00.540 I don't know.

00:45:01.040 Well, I wonder, because, you know, the hacker sort of dark hat, you know, tech community, they're always one step ahead.

00:45:10.560 They're going to find a way to create the fake vaccine passports, even if that's where we go. 0.79

00:45:15.960 But let's hope that's not necessary.

00:45:17.760 Look, look, the hacker community, you know, if they want to know whether I got vaccinated or not, that's OK.

00:45:24.000 There are probably a lot of other medical issues they'd like to know or financial issues about me or about you that would be of much more interest and much more damaging than whether or not I have this vaccine.

00:45:34.500 Look, all they need to know is I was in college, I was dating a lacrosse player, and I just, that's all I'm going to say.

00:45:40.940 Just kidding.

00:45:42.880 Mom's the word.

00:45:44.920 Doc, great to see you.

00:45:46.400 Thank you.

00:45:46.980 Thank you for having me.

00:45:48.860 In a minute, we're going to get to Juliet Huddy and have some fun girl talk.

00:45:53.480 Look, I'll reveal to you the one beauty product you must have.

00:45:58.940 I'm telling you, I'm not getting paid for this.

00:46:01.520 I actually pay for this product regularly.

00:46:03.700 I love it.

00:46:05.100 And it's a game changer.

00:46:06.240 That's how we kick it off.

00:46:07.120 But first, before we get to that, we're going to bring a feature to you called Asked and Answered, where we get after some of our listener mail.

00:46:14.280 Steve Krakauer is our executive producer.

00:46:16.820 He's got the question today.

00:46:18.340 Hey, Steve.

00:46:19.200 Hey, Megan.

00:46:19.640 Yes, today we are pulling questions from Instagram, our at Megan Kelly Show Instagram account.

00:46:24.280 We got a ton of great questions yesterday, so we wanted to put one in front of you today.

00:46:28.040 This is from Domi Lowson, and they want to know, I've lost many friends to the far left.

00:46:32.980 Any advice?

00:46:33.620 It's a lonely time here for independence.

00:46:35.940 Yeah, I hear that.

00:46:37.180 You know, it's funny because a lot of my liberal friends are going through this.

00:46:42.240 You know, I think it's affecting mostly liberals, like center left people, this sort of distancing.

00:46:49.980 Because let's face it, you know, if you work at Fox News for 14 years, you probably already lost your hardcore, you know, far left friends.

00:46:56.600 They don't want that.

00:46:57.920 They don't want that kind of messaging in their life, and that's fine.

00:47:00.700 That's not a friend, right?

00:47:01.900 It's no loss.

00:47:03.000 And that's kind of how I see it for you, too, Domi.

00:47:05.040 It's like if your friends have drifted so far to the left that they no longer want to be with you, or frankly, that you no longer want to be with them, then that's the natural evolution of things, and you should accept that reality, right?

00:47:14.840 Move on.

00:47:15.400 That's not a real friend.

00:47:17.280 You know, your true friends who know your soul, who know your heart, they don't give a damn about your politics, right?

00:47:24.820 So those are the ones you hold on to.

00:47:26.520 And, look, I understand the way things are getting right now with, let's take COVID.

00:47:32.540 You know, you've got the shamers out there, and then you've got people who are really more committed to freedom and individual choices and liberty.

00:47:38.700 It's tough to get along on that issue.

00:47:41.020 It's either you don't talk about it or you put things on pause.

00:47:45.320 I can see how you couldn't reach common ground on that issue, the way the dialogue has emerged in our country.

00:47:51.860 And we've seen a lot about, you know, that happening when it comes to woke and their constant judging of everybody versus people who don't see the world that way.

00:48:01.080 Look, it's not bad to find your own posse, your own tribe that shares your worldview.

00:48:07.140 But I would say to the extent possible, fight to hold on to people who don't as well, the ones who are reasonable, the ones who aren't so far away, and certainly the ones who aren't too judgy.

00:48:14.680 Because it is good to be able to expose yourself to a variety of opinions, and it's just a reminder that there are so many good people in the world out there who are, you know, liberal if you're conservative, who are Republican if you're Democrat.

00:48:29.220 It's, you know, it used to be this way where we could look at each other and see one of those hearts through their partisan jerseys.

00:48:37.280 So, anyway, it's an individual assessment.

00:48:39.320 I guess my bottom line is don't feel too bad because I do think the universe has a way of shaking things out the way they need to be.

00:48:45.220 And the people who are really important to you, they won't leave, and you won't leave them.

00:48:50.940 And I hope I'm one of them.

00:48:52.760 So thanks for listening, Domi.

00:48:54.240 And anybody else who's got a thought or a question, you can email it to us at questions, plural, at devilmaycaremedia.com, or you can go on any of our social media and drop it in on our Insta or Facebook or Twitter.

00:49:07.540 We check all of those.

00:49:09.160 And any thoughts on the show, too, because I check those and often get fun guest suggestions or, I don't know, just feedback on the show, and I always love hearing from you.

00:49:17.920 Thanks.

00:49:18.740 And back to our guest in one second.

00:49:20.320 Juliette Huddy.

00:49:26.980 How you doing, lady?

00:49:28.140 I'm Kay.

00:49:29.120 How are you?

00:49:30.420 I'm so good.

00:49:31.400 It's good to lay eyes on you.

00:49:32.900 You look beautiful.

00:49:33.860 Oh, thank you, my love.

00:49:35.800 Can I tell you, I found the most amazing eyelash product.

00:49:41.380 I have got to, I don't know what it's called.

00:49:44.840 I've got to, you know what?

00:49:45.960 Is it in gold bottle?

00:49:47.640 No, it's in a white tube.

00:49:49.820 Would you go down to my makeup, Anna, my interns here, would you go down to my makeup bag in my drawer and get that white tube?

00:49:56.040 It looks like mascara, but it's white.

00:49:57.520 I'm going to tell you what it is.

00:49:58.700 It's like eyelash primer.

00:50:00.560 You put it on your eyelashes, and then you put on your mascara.

00:50:03.580 Wait a second.

00:50:04.200 Okay.

00:50:04.740 Game changer.

00:50:05.180 Actually, I think I have it.

00:50:06.160 It's a very thin tube.

00:50:07.580 No, it's the normal thickness to a mascara tube.

00:50:10.800 Oh, here it is.

00:50:11.520 Yeah, okay.

00:50:12.020 So here, this is it.

00:50:13.240 And these people are not paying me.

00:50:14.340 Obviously, this is spontaneous.

00:50:16.020 It's by Lancome.

00:50:17.480 Lancome C-I-L-S Booster XL.

00:50:20.460 It just looks like a mascara tube, and it's white, and I'm telling you.

00:50:23.420 It separates and lengthens your lashes like nobody's business, and it looks like you have false eyelashes on by the time you're done with it.

00:50:30.120 Okay, well, I'm going to go to Sephora after we hang out.

00:50:32.880 While we're on the subject of beauty, let's talk about the Olympics, because there's already been a couple of beauty dust-ups there.

00:50:40.220 I actually want to get to the, there's breaking news right now about Simone Biles, but let's just table that for one second, because what's been in the news so far is the outfits, right?

00:50:48.840 The German gymnasts are not happy with the little, I don't know, the little leotards that they put on the female athletes. 0.89

00:50:56.620 And then outside of the Olympics, there's some Norway beach handball team that they don't like wearing the bikini, but I can't, I don't, all the women are basically saying they don't want to be dressed for sexuality, you know, for sexiness now. 1.00

00:51:11.200 So, and do they have a point?

00:51:13.480 Okay, so I'm just going to ask you to bear with me.

00:51:16.380 Well, first of all, as a 50-year-old who has never been an athlete, like I would like to trade with them for just one day to have their problems. 0.87

00:51:25.280 If my butt looked like that, I'd be like, I want a thong. 1.00

00:51:28.340 I want it to be smaller. 0.98

00:51:29.120 Right, exactly.

00:51:29.980 I mean, I would be like, give me the Brazilian bikini.

00:51:32.160 I am going outside.

00:51:33.180 But in all seriousness, these women have fit, beautiful, healthy bodies, and surely they realize that and they know that.

00:51:41.460 And I get it, though, because I don't know, Megan, when you were a reporter out in the field, you were mainly covering politics.

00:51:47.360 So you probably weren't at too many events where there were a bunch of people behind you, you know, screaming, like, I remember being at my first Jacksonville Jaguars football game, covering it, and I'm out in the crowd.

00:51:57.920 And all of a sudden, you know, I'm doing a live shot, and some guy reaches and grabs my bum, and he grabbed a little bit more than my bum, too.

00:52:04.760 You know, and that was sort of the beginning of this perpetual situation throughout my career where you'd have some guys just do perverted things.

00:52:12.100 And I remember, and I'm sure that you do, too, when we were at Fox, our good old days at Fox, when they had that, I don't even want to say what the website was, but some pervert created some website where essentially he would just have us on all day long, and he would try to get shots of the women on the anchor sets.

00:52:33.040 That and crossing and uncrossing our legs.

00:52:36.700 And occasionally, you know, he would get a little shot, and then he would blow it up and post it all over the place, and it was degrading and humiliating.

00:52:43.240 And the reason I'm bringing this up is because, you know, these women have a job to do. 1.00

00:52:48.580 They're trying to win the Olympics.

00:52:49.960 They're trying to win gold for their countries. 0.99

00:52:51.700 And you have this other level of, like, sexuality on top of it from these perverts out there. 0.98

00:52:57.560 And, you know, they're not just sitting on a desk, on an anchor desk, crisscrossing their legs. 0.95

00:53:01.780 I mean, these women are, like, leaping and stretching and, you know, bending and splaying all sorts of body parts. 1.00

00:53:09.120 So I kind of get it.

00:53:11.780 By the same token, I know that some female Olympic athletes from, I think it's the U.S. women's volleyball team were saying, 1.00

00:53:18.620 we're so hot out there that the fewer, the less amount of clothing we have, better.

00:53:23.640 So I think it's just a personal preference, and I'm okay with it.

00:53:26.400 If they don't like wearing the bikinis, I don't know why, because they look amazing. 0.93

00:53:30.120 But I do understand the sexuality part of it.

00:53:33.500 I was laughing because my husband, Doug, has got just a very muscly bottom. 0.96

00:53:38.800 Like, there's no fat on it.

00:53:40.120 Like, like most men, they have more muscly bottoms than the women have. 1.00

00:53:43.960 I know.

00:53:44.260 And I was like, how do you get such a, I'm like, how do you do it? 1.00

00:53:47.380 You know, like, I go, you could bounce a quarter off of that ass. 1.00

00:53:49.860 And then he was like, oh, honey, you know, you have a tight bottom, too. 1.00

00:53:52.700 I'm like, oh, no, you bounced a quarter on my ass. 1.00

00:53:54.840 You'd be like, what happened to my quarter? 1.00

00:53:59.540 Oh, my God.

00:54:00.380 Well, my husband, I have to say, we have the same problem, because he has the same one, too.

00:54:03.680 But I started doing Pilates.

00:54:05.220 And I actually, this is a complete aside, but I actually posted a video of myself on my Instagram

00:54:10.060 with my Pilates outfit on.

00:54:12.220 And I'm like, I am challenging myself to three months of Pilates, and I'm going to make my

00:54:16.600 body better.

00:54:17.320 So these women, I get it. 1.00

00:54:18.920 But I'm not doing it so that men are going to leer and try to get, you know, shots of 0.98

00:54:22.720 me doing stretchies and doing all these things where they can possibly make it.

00:54:28.400 Yeah, well, I mean, I'm thinking about this hand.

00:54:30.800 It's like the women's hand, the Norway beach handball team refusing to wear bikini bottoms.

00:54:36.640 And this is so pink, the singer Pink said, I'll pay any fine you get for wearing your

00:54:41.260 little boy shorts instead of your bikini bottoms.

00:54:43.060 And I'm thinking, I don't know, like, are people clamoring to see the Norway beach handball

00:54:47.760 team handball?

00:54:49.080 Like, I don't, maybe they are, maybe they aren't.

00:54:51.260 I think in a lot of these sports, they've sort of written sex appeal into the deal, whether

00:54:55.960 women knew it or not in signing up. 1.00

00:54:58.620 And we'll find out.

00:54:59.780 I don't think that's really true.

00:55:00.920 Maybe I'm crazy in gymnastics, where they just try to have like that tight stuff that's not

00:55:06.180 going to get caught on the horse and the beams and all that stuff.

00:55:09.480 And I think it makes sense to me that these, if these German gymnasts want to wear a unitard 0.91

00:55:14.160 instead of a leotard, who gives a flying fig?

00:55:16.940 Well, but the other thing is when you're out on the beach and you've got the sand and you've

00:55:21.360 got the ocean, you know, sand is flying all over the place and you've got the sun beating

00:55:25.620 down on you and you're, you know, your body is slick with the lotion and everything.

00:55:29.240 It does add that extra little, you know, layer of sensuality to it.

00:55:33.900 So again, you want people to watch.

00:55:36.620 Well, yeah, yeah.

00:55:37.980 I don't know.

00:55:38.360 What if they go in like the full, you know, prairie girl dresses and hats and nobody shows 0.80

00:55:43.900 up?

00:55:44.220 They're not going to be happy.

00:55:45.460 Yeah.

00:55:45.860 The Marie Antoinette outfits.

00:55:47.500 No, I don't think that's going to happen, Megan.

00:55:49.060 I think we're okay with that.

00:55:50.320 I don't, I don't foresee them putting on, you know, one piece, one piece sewing suits

00:55:55.840 anytime soon.

00:55:56.640 I think these, I think for the most part, these women are just trying to say, look, you know, 0.99

00:56:01.180 stop with the crotch shots, frankly, I think that's kind of what it comes down to because

00:56:04.960 it is just like, well, and you know, I, I read that the Olympics, uh, like the, whoever

00:56:09.100 runs not, not NBC, but let me see who it is.

00:56:12.400 Uh, the Olympic broadcasting services, uh, they are saying we actually are making a choice

00:56:18.960 to, to try this year, not to zoom in on women's body parts and so on. 0.98

00:56:23.520 So it's like a, you know, perv alert.

00:56:25.560 They're willing to lose the pervs in, out of respect for the women. 0.87

00:56:28.820 So that's progress.

00:56:29.560 I like that.

00:56:30.300 I think the pervs will probably still watch.

00:56:32.620 I mean, they still get to see the woman's full body. 1.00

00:56:34.940 It's not like they're, you know, they're just not getting the stretchy, you know, the,

00:56:38.180 all the sensual stuff. 0.94

00:56:39.740 I want to make a point that on that weird guy's website, there is a, there is a crotch 0.98

00:56:43.320 shot of yours. 0.98

00:56:44.200 Truly.

00:56:44.580 I remember I was wearing a magenta dress and it's photoshopped.

00:56:47.740 It didn't happen.

00:56:49.080 Oh, that see, that doesn't surprise me.

00:56:51.260 That's disgusting.

00:56:51.980 I mean, when I first found out about this, I was like, give me his email guy, but you

00:56:57.140 know, then you just encourage them.

00:56:58.420 So it's just pretend like they don't exist and hopefully it won't get all over the place,

00:57:01.800 but it's really, it's, it's messed up when these guys do that.

00:57:04.000 It really is.

00:57:04.720 I know.

00:57:05.120 There's one on YouTube of me with some terrible bout of alleged gas and it's totally made

00:57:10.080 up.

00:57:10.420 And even one of the makeup artists at Fox was like, Oh, but it seems so real.

00:57:14.000 I'm like, Oh, come on. 0.98

00:57:15.620 Are you crazy? 0.99

00:57:17.160 Horrific. 1.00

00:57:17.760 That is pretty awful.

00:57:19.800 I would be devastated, but it's kind of funny.

00:57:21.900 No, I just don't have to watch these things.

00:57:23.780 I totally have to avoid these things.

00:57:25.620 But like I said, when I started to see that, that I, again, I don't want to say what the

00:57:29.620 name of the website was, but the crossing of the legs thing, I was so paranoid after

00:57:34.220 that about crossing my, my legs on that I would turn this way, you know, and it's just one

00:57:38.620 layer that you have to add while you're already trying to pay attention to so many other things

00:57:42.540 and focus on your job, which is what we're there for.

00:57:45.300 It's the old ginger Rogers, right? 0.52

00:57:46.720 Everything you're doing, Fred Astaire, I'm doing backward and in heels.

00:57:50.180 Okay.

00:57:50.600 So Simone Biles, there's breaking news on her out of the Olympics.

00:57:54.700 Apparently she's, she had a disastrous vault.

00:57:58.200 I guess it was a vault.

00:57:59.080 It's just coming into me and now it's done.

00:58:03.080 We lost to the Russians. 0.98

00:58:04.680 The U S took silver because of this fault.

00:58:08.120 I guess she flubbed her vault and what happened?

00:58:10.880 She did a, she did a, she did a vault that was too low in point value and it wasn't the

00:58:15.700 one she intended.

00:58:16.200 She just kept, when she jumped off from what I understand, when she jumped off, she was

00:58:19.580 doing the, she, she took this huge step back and then did these little steps. 0.99

00:58:23.740 And then she did another thing where she slid off the side of the, almost like off the side 0.99

00:58:27.720 of the mat.

00:58:28.540 I think going into this, she just seemed, she seemed off.

00:58:34.220 She seemed erratic.

00:58:35.180 And I'm not exactly the, the expert when it comes to women's gymnastics or the Olympics

00:58:39.080 at all, but I was curious about her because going into it, I mean, she had, excuse me,

00:58:44.160 a few months ago, her brother was acquitted of murder and it was this whole thing.

00:58:49.060 So she's had a lot going on, but even deeper than that, I mean, if you actually look

00:58:53.480 at her history, she's had a really complicated childhood.

00:58:57.880 I mean, just a really tragic childhood, frankly, in foster homes and all this business.

00:59:01.540 So to achieve what she's achieved and, and at this level, I mean, she is arguably the best

00:59:06.800 gymnast that has ever lived from what I understand. 1.00

00:59:10.960 But she, yeah, she kind of fell apart and I don't know, maybe she's, maybe something's,

00:59:14.940 maybe she's in pain, maybe something's going on privately, but she definitely fell apart.

00:59:19.820 And unfortunately it shows us that she's not superhuman.

00:59:22.900 And she's human like the rest of us.

00:59:24.580 And we tend to fall apart sometimes.

00:59:26.820 That's right.

00:59:27.300 And she had just tweeted out the day before something like I, sometimes I feel like I have

00:59:30.420 the weight of the world on my shoulders.

00:59:32.200 And then what happened today was weird.

00:59:33.860 Cause they were like, Oh, it was a, it was a mental error.

00:59:37.220 And then they changed it to no, it was, it was a medical issue.

00:59:41.420 So I have no idea what actually happened with her, but it was a little sketchy, the messaging

00:59:45.740 from team USA.

00:59:47.180 She could still come back and compete in the individuals.

00:59:49.660 And she's, I think our best hope for a gold medal.

00:59:52.000 So fingers crossed she does that. 1.00

00:59:55.280 Yeah.

00:59:55.420 It just seems like even when she was, when she was on the mat and she had screwed up

01:00:00.340 and she kind of looked at the camera and she would made these faces like that normally that 0.94

01:00:04.420 I do constantly like, Oh my God.

01:00:05.960 And it's just, it was very unlike her.

01:00:08.700 It was sort of very anti Simone Biles behavior. 1.00

01:00:12.380 So I don't know.

01:00:13.260 Something clearly seems to be rattling her.

01:00:15.700 And that's okay.

01:00:16.240 As we, as we touch on, on, on certain matters of culture and otherwise, I've got to ask you,

01:00:20.840 I, I, this, I can invest.

01:00:22.720 Sometimes my team says, let's do this subject.

01:00:24.640 And I say, okay, sometimes it's me and this one's me.

01:00:27.380 Okay.

01:00:27.800 Can we just spend one minute on Bennifer?

01:00:29.880 Yes.

01:00:30.560 Oh, please.

01:00:31.160 Yes.

01:00:31.860 Yes.

01:00:32.140 Yes.

01:00:32.300 Yes.

01:00:32.740 No, this is, I completely relate.

01:00:34.680 Bennett.

01:00:35.000 First of all.

01:00:35.960 Megan, you're a little younger than Jen and I, but JLo and I like, I'm not, you're 50.

01:00:41.800 I'm 51, almost 52.

01:00:44.560 Big difference.

01:00:45.460 She's older than us though.

01:00:47.240 So that's fine.

01:00:48.600 But she's on.

01:00:49.660 No, look, I, I think she's one of the most beautiful women in the world. 1.00

01:00:52.880 I think she's absolutely phenomenally beautiful.

01:00:55.280 I don't know her.

01:00:55.920 I don't know what she's like personally, but I mean, she's clearly, she maintains herself

01:01:00.460 absolutely stunningly.

01:01:01.880 I just don't understand.

01:01:04.740 Jennifer Lopez.

01:01:06.580 My God, you're so incredible.

01:01:08.400 You have money and power and fame and beauty, everything.

01:01:11.880 Why are you continuously screwing up in the, in the mail department?

01:01:15.600 And believe me, as you know, I think I've actually beat her in the, in the husband market. 0.69

01:01:21.200 I mean, this is my fourth marriage.

01:01:23.060 Thank God.

01:01:23.840 It's the happy one.

01:01:25.100 And the last one married for you on the last one.

01:01:27.880 Absolutely.

01:01:28.320 And she's been married a few times.

01:01:29.780 I think, I think if she would get married again, it would be her fourth time. 0.99

01:01:33.100 But I mean, she almost married that crazy one, a rod that, that horrible human being. 1.00

01:01:37.940 I can't stand that guy. 0.98

01:01:38.880 And she just, and then she runs right into Ben.

01:01:41.300 Like what, that's the thing that's driving me crazy.

01:01:43.620 And why, to me, the whole thing seems like a PR event.

01:01:47.980 As soon as a rod got caught having some weird text exchange with a reality TV person, she

01:01:55.140 was like, okay, out.

01:01:56.440 And then the next thing you know, she's all over the media with Ben Affleck.

01:01:59.460 And to me as a, as a journalist, I'm like, this is an obvious PR move to try to change

01:02:04.940 the headline.

01:02:06.180 I don't think it's real.

01:02:07.600 I really don't.

01:02:08.200 I think like it helps her to sort of be on the yacht with Ben Affleck.

01:02:13.080 And if it is real, it's bizarre because she was supposed to be in this four-year relationship

01:02:16.540 with a rod about to get married.

01:02:17.980 And now I'm reading a couple of weeks later, she's in love.

01:02:21.000 It's love again with Ben.

01:02:22.280 I just, it's irritating.

01:02:23.940 This is what I, this is what I did my entire life.

01:02:26.540 I was bouncing from one relationship and marriage into the next one.

01:02:29.920 Some of us do this kind of stuff.

01:02:31.820 And then finally we grow up one day and we meet a long haired, heavy metal guy who has a

01:02:36.780 devil tattoo and we settle down.

01:02:38.620 I mean, I don't know.

01:02:39.640 I truly think if it's a PR stunt, it's, it's absurd because she's making herself look like 1.00

01:02:44.900 a loser in love. 0.96

01:02:47.520 And she's, she's, she's far from that. 0.99

01:02:49.400 She's now, she's above that.

01:02:50.440 She's worth reportedly $400 million, which is more than Ben Affleck, by the way.

01:02:54.820 And more, I think than A-Rod.

01:02:55.980 Although I don't know how A-Rod's net worth.

01:02:57.520 Cause he's probably pretty rich from all those Yankee games.

01:02:59.760 Um, but he's on his yacht with all these girls in bikinis and she's on her yacht with Ben 1.00

01:03:05.140 Affleck.

01:03:05.440 And by the way, he has a terrible tattoo as well.

01:03:08.420 And, uh, I'm just looking at this thinking, why doesn't anybody like, why must we just

01:03:13.280 be so celebratory?

01:03:14.260 Can't we say like, how does this person go from one, one relationship where she was about

01:03:18.340 to get married right into this other with this guy who's had all these problems with

01:03:22.120 him?

01:03:22.220 I just like, I don't get it because she is like the way I used to be.

01:03:26.820 She's, she's in love with love.

01:03:28.720 And I mean, literally people have asked me, why did you get married when you were 21?

01:03:32.380 Right.

01:03:32.540 You get married when you, you know, it's like, because I was focused on my career.

01:03:36.240 My career was everything.

01:03:37.420 And I was, I was just in love with the, the idea of romance.

01:03:40.220 And I, I'm, I'm going to give her that.

01:03:42.180 I think that that's what's going on here because to me, it just doesn't make any sense that

01:03:45.900 she would make herself look so flighty and flaky by just literally going out of this

01:03:50.500 relationship with A-Rod and then right into Ben.

01:03:53.200 I just think it's not flighty.

01:03:54.940 It's a, it's a game changer in terms of the press.

01:03:57.460 The press went from, she got cheated on by A-Rod to look at her on the yacht with Ben

01:04:03.420 Affleck.

01:04:04.020 You're so cynical.

01:04:05.060 I am.

01:04:05.860 I don't, it's true.

01:04:06.960 Do you not know this about me?

01:04:08.220 I'm very cynical.

01:04:08.980 I'm a skeptical, cynical reporter.

01:04:11.160 But don't you know me?

01:04:11.980 I'm a typical reporter, but I'm, you know, again, I'm looking at myself and just thinking

01:04:15.460 this is the kind of stuff that I used to do.

01:04:17.740 It's familiar.

01:04:18.360 By the way, my team tells me, um, according to celebrity net worth, which I have to say

01:04:22.740 is a bunch of BS.

01:04:23.520 Cause I've seen people try to estimate my net worth too.

01:04:25.700 And it's so off.

01:04:27.060 Anyway, they say he's worth 350 million.

01:04:29.120 The point is they're both very, very rich.

01:04:31.660 I will make one other point about Jennifer, uh, Jennifer Lopez.

01:04:34.960 I hate when they, they show her Juliet and they're like, this is what 50 looks like.

01:04:39.980 It's like, okay, this is what 50 looks like when you have hundreds of millions of dollars,

01:04:44.680 right?

01:04:45.160 Like all those treatments cost a lot of money.

01:04:48.360 Oh yeah, exactly.

01:04:50.220 And look, I mean, I'm not, I am all the power to her.

01:04:52.440 I've had the little nips in the thing.

01:04:53.780 I have no problem admitting it because I want to keep myself looking, you know, looking good.

01:04:58.120 And if I'm comfortable, who cares what anybody thinks, but let's be honest.

01:05:01.500 Yes.

01:05:01.680 She's has the best of the best and she has access to do it whenever she wants.

01:05:05.280 And so, yes, it's not what 50 looks like.

01:05:07.740 That's true.

01:05:08.300 I start with that, but I have heard that she's got one of these, it's called Ulthera.

01:05:13.260 I had it one time on my neck.

01:05:14.860 It hurts like a mofo.

01:05:16.600 Um, and it's supposed to like tighten your neck.

01:05:19.480 And it's only one time because it hurt, but I've heard she's got one of these things in

01:05:22.620 her house and she uses it all over her. 1.00

01:05:25.000 Now, if you put that Ulthera on your back, you're, you'd be as tight as she is. 1.00

01:05:29.380 If they had like mobile, I would just feel like this all day long.

01:05:32.760 You would though, because it hurts.

01:05:34.480 It really hurts.

01:05:35.860 It's painful.

01:05:36.140 Oh, beauty is pain. 0.97

01:05:37.120 Beauty is pain.

01:05:38.040 Megan, you know that.

01:05:39.320 Yeah, that's true.

01:05:40.280 God dang.

01:05:41.200 Anyway.

01:05:41.980 Um, so enough about her.

01:05:43.200 I just, I felt the need to discuss it.

01:05:45.160 Okay.

01:05:45.320 The other thing that we've got to discuss and you're, you're the perfect person for this

01:05:48.700 and we were going to do culture issues with you irrespective, but man, talk about

01:05:52.840 nailing it.

01:05:53.580 Um, Andrea Macris, the Bill O'Reilly original accuser.

01:05:59.200 This is the woman.

01:06:00.380 When I first joined Fox news, it was 2014.

01:06:02.680 No, sorry.

01:06:03.480 2004.

01:06:04.440 And this was all the buzz.

01:06:05.900 This is all the buzz that this woman who had worked for O'Reilly had sued him for sexual

01:06:09.360 harassment and got a big payout.

01:06:11.880 And the thing that would made all the news was her complaint went was public.

01:06:14.940 It was released.

01:06:16.080 And so I remember sitting at my desk in my office.

01:06:19.180 I shared with major Garrett pouring through the complaint.

01:06:21.420 No one did any work that day.

01:06:23.380 Juliet, do you remember this?

01:06:24.640 No one did work at Fox news.

01:06:25.700 We were all reading the complaint.

01:06:26.920 And the biggest surprise out of, out of the, our pod was she makes $86,000 a year. 1.00

01:06:32.620 No one cared about the second or out. 0.96

01:06:33.960 They were like, Holy crap. 0.98

01:06:35.180 She makes more than all of us. 0.99

01:06:37.180 Oh my God.

01:06:38.360 Well, apparently you know why.

01:06:40.340 Um, yeah.

01:06:40.880 Can you tell, tell them, tell the audience why she's back in the news?

01:06:43.400 Well, she's back in the news because she decided to break her NDA, her non-disclosure agreement

01:06:49.280 and come forward.

01:06:50.840 And when you do that, you are at risk of paying a lot of money, hundreds of thousands of dollars,

01:06:56.960 if not more, uh, because you've, you've chosen to break a legal agreement.

01:07:01.560 Um, but I think she kind of, I really respect her for doing this because as you know, I, I

01:07:06.000 essentially broke my NDA when I went on, uh, one of your previous incarnations, a show,

01:07:10.960 um, back in 2017.

01:07:12.340 It's on YouTube right now.

01:07:13.400 That was our reaction to the bombshell film.

01:07:17.560 That's exactly.

01:07:18.540 Yeah.

01:07:18.880 And you know, Oh, no, it was, there was even one before that.

01:07:22.540 Um, and it, you know, I, I was terrified.

01:07:26.420 So I understand how it, why it took her so long to come out, but by the same token, there's

01:07:32.760 almost this feeling after a while that being silenced and having everybody tell your story

01:07:37.060 for you is, is almost even worse.

01:07:39.120 And you're just like, at least in my, in my case, because I did go through sexual harassment,

01:07:43.660 situation with Bill O'Reilly and with Fox news.

01:07:46.100 Um, and I did have a settlement and, uh, certainly wasn't as much as all these other people I've

01:07:50.820 come to find out.

01:07:51.740 Um, but the thing is, I felt like, you know what, when I was going to speak out, I, I was

01:07:57.460 so angry because I don't know that I would have signed an NDA.

01:08:01.260 I mean, it's, it's easy to say, look back and say that, but I don't know that I would

01:08:04.940 have signed an NDA.

01:08:05.740 Had I known that there were other women that he did this to consistently.

01:08:09.840 I remember when the Andrea Macris stuff came out, but I also remember being cynical about

01:08:14.780 her and which is, which is terrible.

01:08:17.940 And, and I hate to admit it.

01:08:19.180 Um, I just remember the falafel thing and that, that I just thought was, well, you know, these

01:08:24.260 two were probably just dating and things got a little haywire.

01:08:27.840 Um, now I don't agree with that at all.

01:08:30.020 But my feeling was when I came forward and when I started to talk and when I broke my

01:08:34.180 NDA, it was because they couldn't.

01:08:36.320 And I said, I've told you this before.

01:08:37.960 They took everything.

01:08:39.480 I mean, they took my, I lost my home.

01:08:41.840 I had to dip into my 401k pretty significantly to pay off bills and pay off my, my agents,

01:08:47.720 my former agents who dumped me.

01:08:49.000 And, um, it was, it was horrible.

01:08:51.280 And I lost the most important thing to me, which was my career, my television career.

01:08:55.420 So I think there's just, for some of us, we just, we just sit there and we say,

01:08:59.720 come at me, come at me, bro.

01:09:02.040 You know, come at me. 1.00

01:09:02.900 What are you going to take now?

01:09:04.220 Nothing left to lose.

01:09:06.700 Thanks for staying with us this far.

01:09:08.160 The end of the episode and who's coming up on our next show is right after this quick

01:09:12.520 break.

01:09:16.140 She gave an interview to the Daily Beast, sort of breaking her NDA and pretty open about

01:09:20.960 the fact that this is contrary to the NDA, but she's got arguments that from what I read

01:09:25.420 that he, he breached it first.

01:09:27.640 He was, he's been calling her a liar in the press.

01:09:29.360 She alleges, and therefore she's going to have an argument that he, he committed a prior

01:09:33.220 material breach, which released her from the NDA.

01:09:35.800 That's, that's a legal argument that could fly.

01:09:38.100 That could fly.

01:09:39.180 Um, but she spoke to the Daily Beast and then she was going to go on the view, but O'Reilly 0.73

01:09:43.540 got a temporary restraining order stopping it.

01:09:46.400 Um, and there was actually supposed to be a hearing in the case just yesterday.

01:09:50.260 We're taping this on Tuesday.

01:09:51.280 So just yesterday, Monday, don't know how that came out.

01:09:53.840 Um, but I will bet that the court will uphold it until they have an actual trial and say

01:09:58.280 she can't do any more press until they rule on whether he committed a prior material breach.

01:10:02.600 Anyway, she also spoke, um, you can, uh, on camera on, on audio, at least to the Daily

01:10:08.400 Beast.

01:10:08.680 And here's a soundbite of her explaining why she did it.

01:10:11.380 I never released a statement.

01:10:13.300 It was part of the forced NDA in which I was bullied and coerced under duress, screaming,

01:10:20.660 crying, shaking uncontrollably saying, no, no, no.

01:10:24.020 I do not want to sign this.

01:10:26.020 I want to go to trial.

01:10:27.520 I'll walk out of here.

01:10:28.560 I'm not doing this.

01:10:29.620 And they cleared the room and left me with one of my lawyers, David Ratner, who pounded

01:10:35.340 his fists on the shiny long lacquer table and said, no one believes you.

01:10:39.920 No, you'll never be hired again.

01:10:42.540 If you walk out of here, you got to remember we were, we were sued too.

01:10:46.140 And if you walk out of here, no lawyer, who's going to want to work with you.

01:10:49.340 And then he slammed his hands down.

01:10:51.280 He said, this is, you, you didn't hire us to go to trial.

01:10:53.980 You hired us to stop him.

01:10:55.660 This is as good as it gets.

01:10:57.040 And he slammed his hands down and he said, take the money and move on with your life.

01:11:03.320 Screamed it at me.

01:11:04.100 And I swear to you, I wasn't in my body.

01:11:06.700 I think I blacked out.

01:11:08.400 Hey, um, well, I mean, there's, there have been things that have come out since about

01:11:14.220 her lawyers and switching sides during the middle of the whole, I mean, it just seems

01:11:19.140 like it was a very, um, it was still really sketchy situation that she got herself into.

01:11:25.420 Um, and I don't know if you're the lawyer, I should say that guy, Brett, um, wait, no,

01:11:30.800 no, David Ratner, not Brett Ratner.

01:11:32.880 That's a different case.

01:11:34.080 David Ratner denies this.

01:11:36.100 Yeah.

01:11:36.300 He denies it.

01:11:37.000 And he says, he's concerned that her memory is so faulty.

01:11:39.520 So he's denying that he strong-armed her into signing the deal and that there was any sort

01:11:43.700 of self-dealing. 1.00

01:11:45.000 She's trying to make her sound like she's mentally ill. 1.00

01:11:46.940 Is that what's going on? 0.97

01:11:48.160 Yeah.

01:11:48.540 I mean, like the fact is you can, you can, the bottom line is Bill O'Reilly still has

01:11:53.460 a career.

01:11:54.180 Okay.

01:11:54.480 He's still out there.

01:11:55.580 He's still making money.

01:11:56.540 The women that accused him, the multiple women that accused him of sexual harassment, none

01:12:02.180 of us, as far as I know, work in television anymore.

01:12:05.320 Um, you know, some of us have, have, thank God, uh, found other realms, other arenas in

01:12:11.800 which we work and, and have really thrived, not just survive, but thrive.

01:12:15.900 Um, I'm very lucky.

01:12:17.560 I got a job at WABC, 77 WABC in New York, and I am thankful and appreciative of that.

01:12:24.380 It's not my television career, which I miss, but the fact is that he's still out there.

01:12:29.200 He's still, he still has somewhat of a career and he still has an audience and he still has

01:12:33.120 ways of, of talking about himself in a way that makes him, uh, look like he is the Mr.

01:12:38.980 Family Values guy.

01:12:40.120 And I think many of us just sit there and go that that's absurd.

01:12:43.940 All you have to do is look at the multiple accusations, all of us, the same, the same

01:12:48.880 accusations throughout all of these, um, allegations, the same accusations.

01:12:52.600 Well, that's the thing that's jumped out at me.

01:12:54.680 If you read her, her new report where she gets into more detail about what went on between

01:12:59.320 them, allegedly, allegedly it mirrors what, what you told me it, it mirrors your allegation.

01:13:05.000 And it's amazing.

01:13:05.760 You know, if, if all of this is true, he didn't stop his old patterns.

01:13:10.160 You'd think after having to pay $9 million to Andrea Macris to settle this suit, 3 million 0.86

01:13:15.020 of which went to her lawyers who did two weeks worth of work, um, he, or anybody in his position

01:13:21.580 would then stop the behavior because you've already paid such a high price PR wise and

01:13:27.240 financially for it.

01:13:28.240 And yet, and yet Lori do Rebecca Gomez, Juliette huddy.

01:13:33.400 Um, I think Andrea Tantaros minus, I don't know.

01:13:37.160 There's just a, there's a litany of people lease wheel.

01:13:39.660 I mean, $32 million that he paid her himself.

01:13:42.180 It's just, I look, I look at this and I say, he's there's still an appetite and still an

01:13:48.080 audience for Bill O'Reilly.

01:13:49.180 Yet the people that cheer and clap for him, many of them are the same people that say,

01:13:54.560 Oh, look at that.

01:13:56.000 Matt Lauer dared to show his face out on the Hamptons or Charlie Rose dared to show his

01:14:00.020 face.

01:14:00.360 I mean, what's the difference?

01:14:01.780 It's, it's hypocrisy at its best, but that's, that's America for you.

01:14:06.820 We should point out that, uh, O'Reilly has denied these claims.

01:14:10.680 He said that he paid out women, uh, you know, millions of dollars to, to six different women

01:14:15.840 because he wanted to avoid trials that would hurt his family.

01:14:19.900 And Andrea Macris at the time of her settlement, actually, she's, she released a statement or

01:14:24.500 actually there was a statement that said there was no wrongdoing whatsoever by Mr. O'Reilly,

01:14:28.860 but she now says that had to happen pursuant to the NDA.

01:14:32.260 You know, that was a term of the deal and is denying it.

01:14:34.580 So in any event, um, you know, Bill's pushed back on these Fox news has said, look, things

01:14:38.300 have changed since then.

01:14:39.240 We're different management and under in control, different environment, new human resources,

01:14:43.440 uh, efforts by us and so on.

01:14:44.820 I wanted to ask you one thing though, about this.

01:14:47.340 I've thought a lot about this, Juliet, and I do think the breaking of the NDAs, it's fraught

01:14:53.060 because the NDAs get women deals as well that they might not otherwise get. 0.92

01:14:59.700 So a woman who files a lawsuit against a guy, there could be the genders could be reversed, 1.00

01:15:04.720 whatever, forget just for now, I'll just say a woman against a guy. 1.00

01:15:07.040 She might not want to see it through to trial.

01:15:08.980 She doesn't want to go and testify him against him on the stand necessarily.

01:15:12.000 She, she might want it to go away quickly.

01:15:14.040 So there's an incentive in most cases.

01:15:17.320 Yeah.

01:15:17.500 There's an incentive in most cases for, for there to be an NDA, you know, make it go away,

01:15:21.740 keep it quiet.

01:15:22.880 Don't make it a national event.

01:15:24.600 And like, I worry because in New York, we've changed the law as of January, 2020, that an

01:15:29.440 employer cannot, an employer may not include an NDA in a sexual harassment case unless it's

01:15:35.500 at the request of the plaintiff.

01:15:36.700 And, um, they, they can find a way around that.

01:15:40.160 By the way, we had this conversation over dinner about a year, year or two ago.

01:15:44.660 And, um, and you made, you know, you make good points and I get it because I, I just wanted

01:15:49.900 to move on with my life.

01:15:51.220 And I didn't think people would believe me.

01:15:53.940 And I was going up against, I've told you this before.

01:15:56.180 I was going up against the Fox news machine and Bill O'Reilly machine and lawyers and PR

01:16:01.540 people and all the publicity and all that.

01:16:03.340 And I just wanted to go away quietly and get another job in television.

01:16:07.360 And that's why initially I thought, well, this is a good thing, but, um, you're right.

01:16:13.080 It's fraud.

01:16:13.680 I think that's the best way to put it.

01:16:15.100 It's hard to, it's, it's hard to say one way or the other, but I think that if, if those

01:16:21.680 of us who signed NDAs who now want to get out of them, um, and I know that there's a

01:16:26.800 big action from Julie Roginski and Gretchen Carlson and so forth, um, they've got their,

01:16:33.700 their own little thing going on.

01:16:35.480 I mean, I just, I just think that it's a, it's a very strange, very slippery world.

01:16:40.680 But if you right now, if, if you see that a man has, or a company has settled over and

01:16:47.780 over and over again, something's wrong there, just something is wrong.

01:16:51.740 Well, that's exactly right.

01:16:53.020 I think Bill's not wrong that public figure figures get attacked and not always justifiably,

01:16:58.220 but if there's a pattern and the employer is in a position to know it, right.

01:17:03.080 Cause like the one thing that the women had in the, in a lot of these cases is that they 1.00

01:17:07.920 were siloed away from one another.

01:17:09.180 They weren't allowed to talk about it.

01:17:10.560 You know, there's a culture that kept it quiet, but the employer knew, right.

01:17:15.400 That's what changes the dynamic to where the, the NDAs do become like a sword that get, that

01:17:23.000 gets used to protect a serial predator.

01:17:26.500 Right.

01:17:26.780 And, and look, they had certain people had audio, um, you know, it was, it was in multiple

01:17:33.680 situations, at least in the O'Reilly situation and the, uh, Roger Ailes situation.

01:17:39.180 Um, who also, of course, left Fox news, uh, pretty much the same way, sexual harassment

01:17:44.580 allegations.

01:17:45.440 Um, there were, there were audio tapes and, and that kind of stuff is devastating.

01:17:49.540 And, and I know that they are out there and supposedly some of them were, you were ordered

01:17:53.940 to destroy them, but these, these executives at Fox knew this, they heard the tapes and

01:17:59.960 it's, it's just, um, it's just a real problem.

01:18:03.940 And I, and I really, I think it's starting to change, but not fast enough.

01:18:08.620 Well, and that's the thing.

01:18:09.300 So it's like, Andrea, she took the 9 million.

01:18:11.900 Oh, she only got 6 million and you calculate that out.

01:18:15.120 I mean, it's a whole hell of a lot more than you got.

01:18:17.380 It's supposed to reward her or make her whole for losing her career.

01:18:22.200 Right.

01:18:22.340 So let's call it, she was making a hundred thousand dollars a year. 0.61

01:18:24.640 That would have gone up.

01:18:27.060 Yeah.

01:18:28.240 You lost her job.

01:18:31.400 Right.

01:18:31.560 Exactly.

01:18:31.860 She thought she'd be rehired, but you're supposed to make the person whole, right?

01:18:34.520 You're supposed to put them back in the law, in the position that they otherwise would have

01:18:37.720 been, had you not committed the bad act.

01:18:39.680 And if you just sort of calculate out her earning capacity of a hundred, 150, 200, whatever,

01:18:44.980 that's what the money's supposed to be supposed to say.

01:18:47.260 Okay.

01:18:47.520 Let's say you never work again.

01:18:48.800 This is what's going to make you whole.

01:18:50.560 So I, I understand the point of like, well, you can't take the money and then come out and break

01:18:54.060 the deal.

01:18:55.020 But I also heard her pain at not being able to pursue as a, as a practical matter, the

01:19:02.460 career she had loved so much.

01:19:03.960 And at which she was pretty good.

01:19:05.120 There's, I think we have a second soundbite from Andrea Macris talking about it.

01:19:08.580 Let's listen.

01:19:09.180 My, why now?

01:19:10.000 Like, why am I doing this?

01:19:11.060 Like, even if it's really scary, I'm at the point that no matter what chaos this might

01:19:15.380 bring me, I have to take the risk to live my fullest life without fear because something

01:19:19.440 sort of broke free in me.

01:19:20.640 It's like spiritual atrophy or, or an existential death to try to avoid this pain of being silenced

01:19:25.960 because then it's only magnified.

01:19:27.900 And, you know, so I accept the cost of what's on the other side of this because it's better

01:19:31.680 than this alternative.

01:19:32.620 Even if I have to pay a breach, it's, it's less than the cost of the past 17 years.

01:19:36.720 And my act of breaking it is almost an act of self-defense.

01:19:39.960 No matter what he tries to do to me, I'm going to be okay because I won't be able to be,

01:19:44.240 it'll be useful now.

01:19:45.220 It gives this pain a purpose to add my voice into this, you know, what is, what is an NDA?

01:19:51.760 Well, now you can read mine and now you can hear what it was like in forced arbitration

01:19:55.760 and it has to end.

01:19:57.760 There should not be one, you know, NDAs are for the, you know, the recipe to the secret

01:20:02.640 sauce or, you know, the trademark information or, you know, different bits of consulting you

01:20:07.380 might've done, you know, you know, in the back rooms with people on a, on a project.

01:20:10.980 It's not about confiscating a woman's first amendment right to tell the truth of her own

01:20:16.980 story.

01:20:19.000 Wow.

01:20:19.640 I mean, as a lawyer, she's wrong, she's wrong about that.

01:20:21.860 It is in part that they use them in settlement agreements all the time to make a case go away.

01:20:26.180 And often it's the defendant's only incentive to settle, right?

01:20:29.680 I mean, you're O'Reilly, you don't want this coming out.

01:20:32.160 So that's his only incentive.

01:20:34.020 Once you file a lawsuit, the cat's out of the bag.

01:20:36.060 He has less incentive.

01:20:36.740 I think the thing is, you, you also feel like you're dealing, you want to, you want

01:20:40.860 to know that people that you're dealing with, they're giving you a fair landscape.

01:20:45.900 And when you sign something and think, again, in my case, I signed because I thought nobody's

01:20:51.760 going to believe me.

01:20:52.400 I'm going to go up against, again, the machines.

01:20:55.480 And then I come to find out a few months later, oh no, it wasn't just me.

01:20:59.440 It wasn't just me.

01:21:00.780 Hell no, it wasn't.

01:21:01.660 It was several other women. 1.00

01:21:02.840 And, you know, had I known that, again, things would have been a lot different.

01:21:08.660 And I think, so it's almost like you feel like you were under duress because you were

01:21:12.260 dealing with a completely different scenario of facts.

01:21:15.680 And the people that were supposed to protect you, your employer, weren't.

01:21:19.460 And they were lying to you.

01:21:20.980 They were shoring you over to protect.

01:21:23.100 It's more like, it's not that they didn't believe you, it's that they, they wouldn't

01:21:26.340 have cared.

01:21:26.940 They didn't care.

01:21:27.660 Yeah.

01:21:28.280 Well, they said that they didn't believe you, right?

01:21:30.180 Well, I don't know.

01:21:32.400 I mean, I, I think the whole Me Too thing is, it's so complicated, right?

01:21:35.820 It's like, it's gotten bastardized.

01:21:37.120 It's gotten political, politicized.

01:21:38.880 And it's, it's, yeah, right. 0.99

01:21:40.220 It makes me uncomfortable because it's like, it's such bullshit, Julia, because the, the 0.94

01:21:44.720 Me Too movement, I think was really meant to, to protect women in the workplace who are 0.98

01:21:49.220 being forced to choose between their own dignity and their job, right?

01:21:53.220 Like you give me sexual favors or you're not advancing, that kind of thing.

01:21:56.440 And it's just gotten so, I don't know, that it is being used.

01:22:01.020 It gets used improperly and inappropriately and in the, in the right political context,

01:22:05.260 but not the other political context.

01:22:06.780 Now, I don't know where we are, but I, I, I didn't want to shy away from just discussing

01:22:11.200 this just because it's Bill and he's popular.

01:22:14.460 I'm sure with a lot of my audience, it shouldn't matter who, who the person is.

01:22:19.300 We should be able to talk about this stuff openly.

01:22:22.100 Yes.

01:22:22.460 And that's, what's so great about your show is you've kind of got this no holds barred,

01:22:26.900 you know, we're not going to be canceled because we're just, we're still going to be talking.

01:22:30.500 You can try to cancel us all you want.

01:22:32.460 Um, which I love.

01:22:33.600 And I think it is really important.

01:22:34.940 I mean, I, when I go to work, there are still some of my guy colleagues that say, they'll

01:22:40.340 say, Oh, you know, you look amazing today.

01:22:41.980 And then they're like, Oh, I'm sorry.

01:22:43.220 I'm sorry.

01:22:43.600 And it's like, Oh, come on.

01:22:44.620 Yeah.

01:22:44.880 Come on.

01:22:45.440 I mean, no, you've never been that way.

01:22:47.460 That's the irony for you to, for you to come out and say this happened.

01:22:50.140 And you've always been so fun and easygoing and never somebody who's been uptight in

01:22:54.020 that way.

01:22:54.520 So, I mean, I never had any trouble believing one word of what you said, especially given,

01:22:59.240 you know, all the knowledge I had about him anyway.

01:23:00.920 But yeah, that's, that's those, those women are ruining for the rest of us because some 1.00

01:23:05.580 of us don't want to treat men like they're lepers and right.

01:23:09.320 You know, they walk into a room guilty, right?

01:23:11.540 Like some of us love men and want to give them the benefit of the doubt and don't mind being

01:23:14.820 complimented, complimented.

01:23:16.240 Sometimes too much.

01:23:17.480 No, but I think the difference is when a man is lording your career over you and lording

01:23:22.300 your position over you.

01:23:23.340 That's when it's a problem.

01:23:24.440 When a man is being degrading and harassing, I mean, that's a problem.

01:23:29.080 There, there are differences.

01:23:30.060 And when some guy tells me I look nice and he happens to be a colleague of mine, or he

01:23:33.980 calls me hun because he's so used to calling his wife hun and he slipped.

01:23:37.560 I mean, I'm walking around my office all the time and I'm saying it right now.

01:23:40.420 I call everybody sweetie.

01:23:41.920 I've done it my entire life and I can't stop myself.

01:23:44.620 I'm like, okay, sweetie.

01:23:45.480 Hey, hun.

01:23:46.040 And I'm like, you know, I'm not going to get a suit because I'm calling somebody sweetie.

01:23:50.440 Who wants to live like this?

01:23:51.900 You know, who wants to live like this?

01:23:53.640 It's not out of control.

01:23:54.700 It really has.

01:23:55.420 I totally agree with you.

01:23:56.780 By the same token, there have to be, um, there have to be rules and there has to be a lot

01:24:02.020 less hypocrisy out there.

01:24:04.060 Um, and I think that's really, that's really the important thing.

01:24:07.000 I still think, you know, to this day, I'll get letters from women at Fox, women who I

01:24:11.280 had no idea were having any sort of an issue, women in tech, women in production, women who,

01:24:16.400 you know, not on the air who say, you know, thank you.

01:24:19.660 Right.

01:24:19.860 Like you and the other women, like you, you don't, you'll never know what a difference 1.00

01:24:23.280 you made.

01:24:23.760 And I think about that stuff, Julia, cause it's like, I don't know. 0.99

01:24:27.220 There's so much, such a shit storm comes down around you when you, when you take a stand 0.95

01:24:32.280 in a case like this, whether it's filing a lawsuit or, you know, whatever my role was in 0.99

01:24:36.280 all of this, Gretchen, Janice, it's just a shit storm can come down around you at the 0.98

01:24:41.300 time. 0.99

01:24:42.000 After the fact, people look at you differently.

01:24:44.340 I still, I still say it was worth it.

01:24:46.660 It was.

01:24:48.120 And I, it was completely worth it because I've never been happier in my life.

01:24:51.820 And I guess that's the crazy thing.

01:24:53.460 So thank you, Bill O'Reilly for screwing up my life for a few years, but Hey, I'm better

01:24:58.020 than ever.

01:24:59.240 So.

01:25:00.500 All right.

01:25:01.000 And people do, they should listen, you listen to bill.

01:25:03.240 That's fine.

01:25:03.700 And that's between you and bill, you should also be listening to Juliet.

01:25:06.520 They, you have to get up early.

01:25:07.540 You have to wake up early.

01:25:08.340 She's on five, five.

01:25:09.200 Is it five to seven or five to.

01:25:10.880 It's five to six 30 AM on 77 WABC.

01:25:14.140 You can download the app and I have a great time.

01:25:16.460 Well, my colleague is amazing.

01:25:17.760 Frank Parano.

01:25:18.520 We just, we have a great time.

01:25:19.600 And the good thing about it is that I don't have to give my opinion all the time.

01:25:22.940 So I'm not getting all the calls yelling at me because we're pretty rightly in station.

01:25:26.960 So I'm not hearing people scream at me every day, which is kind of nice.

01:25:30.060 And I feel like that's another thing is like you, you weren't pro Trump.

01:25:33.300 So you lost some of the diehard Fox supporters who thought that, you know, you should have

01:25:37.320 been supporting Trump, but you're, you're very reasonable in your politics.

01:25:40.380 You're not some hard lefty.

01:25:41.940 You just didn't really love Trump.

01:25:43.440 Get over it.

01:25:44.300 Why, why is the right, like that faction of the right turning into cancel culture?

01:25:48.080 Right?

01:25:48.400 Like, get past it.

01:25:49.760 That's a great point.

01:25:50.820 Yeah.

01:25:51.060 It just, it's, it's crazy because this, I'll say one little thing about Trump, but it didn't

01:25:55.340 matter that the previous half hour, I was just lambasting governor Cuomo. 0.91

01:26:00.600 So it's, uh, you know, it's just, it's, uh, it's ridiculous.

01:26:05.780 Listen, it's wonderful catching up with you, my love.

01:26:08.020 It's, it's great to see you.

01:26:09.200 And I hope we do it again soon.

01:26:11.120 Definitely.

01:26:11.700 I miss you.

01:26:12.680 Thanks for having me.

01:26:13.960 Maybe I'll get a yacht one of these days.

01:26:15.480 I'm going to save up.

01:26:16.120 I'm going to get a yacht and you and I are going to go on it and show our bouncing.

01:26:18.600 Yes, please.

01:26:20.060 It's my favorite thing.

01:26:22.040 You can put lotion on my bum all you want.

01:26:24.760 That is going to be the creepiest soundbite that's taking from this entire interview,

01:26:27.880 by the way.

01:26:28.500 I accept.

01:26:33.820 Do not miss our next show.

01:26:35.240 By popular demand, we're finally doing a show on the thing I use to stay relatively,

01:26:42.280 I don't know if fit is the right word, but thin on the thin side.

01:26:46.280 And you don't have to diet.

01:26:48.520 You don't even have to exercise.

01:26:49.960 You don't have to do anything.

01:26:51.220 It's called intermittent fasting and it works.

01:26:55.520 I'm going to walk you through how it works.

01:26:57.540 We're going to have a woman who's an expert in it and, you know, how you can, you can wean 1.00

01:27:01.640 yourself over time if you want to, or you can continue it as a lifestyle and the many

01:27:06.540 benefits to you and your health from doing this.

01:27:09.160 So it's summer.

01:27:10.100 People are worrying about their, you know, physique, but we're always keeping an eye on it.

01:27:14.280 Right.

01:27:14.600 And, um, I've mentioned it a few times.

01:27:16.900 We've had so many listeners say, please, please, please do a show on it.

01:27:20.200 So by popular demand, it's happening next show Wednesday.

01:27:23.680 Don't miss it.

01:27:24.340 Go ahead and subscribe to the show while I have you.

01:27:26.880 And we'll talk about intermittent fasting tomorrow.

01:27:30.900 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show.

01:27:33.380 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:27:37.960 The Megan Kelly show is a Devil May Care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures. 0.56

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The Megyn Kelly Show - July 27, 2021

COVID Confusion and Olympics Storylines, with Dr. Joel Zinberg and Juliet Huddy ｜ Ep. 135

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