In this episode, Dr. Nicole Sapphire, a radiologist at Memorial Sloan Kettering, and Dr. Lucy McBride, an internist in Washington, D.C., join host Meghan Kelly to talk about how to get through this pandemic.
00:04:20.860Actually, Marty and I are good friends pre-COVID.
00:04:23.700He has now blurbed both of my books, my first one and now the second one.
00:04:27.460We have been in daily communication since the beginning of this pandemic.
00:04:32.180And, you know, I completely agree with him.
00:04:35.400You know, I had a piece that came out in the Wall Street Journal a couple months ago that said, you know, Fauci, tear off these masks.
00:04:41.360Because by Memorial Day, I said it will be at an acceptable level where we shouldn't be wearing masks.
00:04:47.840And I dubbed Memorial Day to be called a mascapation.
00:04:51.560That's my new name for this time of year.
00:04:54.900And, you know, I think that's the one thing that McCary and I have really continued to stand firm on in that, unfortunately, people are continuing to neglect the fact that natural immunity is proving to be quite strong.
00:05:07.740Now, that's not to say that we would have encouraged natural immunity to get us to herd immunity, because obviously a lot more people would die.
00:05:15.420It was the combination of existing natural immunity with the robust vaccine campaign that has gotten us where we are.
00:05:21.940But yet, if you talk about natural immunity, you're deemed anti-vax, which is which is crazy.
00:05:27.540Right. Rand Paul is under attack right now from some saying, oh, he's you know, he's absurd because he's like he's a doctor.
00:05:35.760He says, I'm not going to get the vaccine because I had covid and I'm going to rely on my natural immunity.
00:05:41.220By the way, my own doctor here in New York, who's an infectious disease specialist, said you don't need the vaccine if you've had covid, which I haven't had covid.
00:05:50.280So I got the vaccine. But why are people rejecting that, including isn't the CDC also rejecting that the CDC is also saying get get vaxxed, even if you've had it?
00:05:58.940Well, the CDC and you also have heard Dr. Fauci since the beginning saying that if we want to get to herd immunity, up to 90 percent of the population will have to get vaccinated.
00:06:07.280And that's just the most preposterous statement. I mean, it's hard not to laugh, but but it's not funny.
00:06:12.760It's not funny, those statements coming out because they're so wrong and they give the public this perception that we're never going to be at herd immunity and that we're going to be in this perpetual state of lockdown and crises.
00:06:24.320But that's just not true. And all you have to really do is look at the cases in terms of new cases, hospitalizations and deaths.
00:06:31.180And we have reached all time lows since the beginning of the pandemic.
00:06:34.500We have gotten to a very safe spot in the sense that the emergency is over and it is time for Dr. Fauci, the CDC and President Biden to come forth and admit the emergency is over.
00:06:46.040Now, the pandemic is not over, but the emergency is.
00:06:48.960But the reason that they continue to neglect the fact that natural immunity contributed to this is because they think if you actually acknowledge natural immunity, then people won't get the vaccine.
00:06:58.960But that's not the case, because if you're not being fully transparent with people, they're going to catch on.
00:07:04.280Americans are a lot smarter that some of these old guard medical establishments would like to think them to be.
00:07:09.620And so they catch on when they when some of these statements don't make any sense.
00:07:13.860And that is why you start seeing the skepticism rise.
00:07:17.240Well, I'm sick of Fauci misleading us for our own good.
00:07:20.160What does he think he is, my daddy? You know, it's like first he says, don't wear the masks because they do nothing.
00:07:25.000Then he says, oh, you have to wear them all the time. That was just a lie. So you didn't buy up all the PPE, all the PPE.
00:07:29.920The latest one was he said a couple of months ago.
00:07:33.280Yeah, you do still need to wear the mask, even if you've been double vaxxed.
00:07:37.680And Rand Paul again said, isn't that just really performance?
00:07:40.180You don't need the mask if you've been double vaxxed. And he took offense at that.
00:07:43.800It's absolutely not. Now he takes off the mask and says, good news.
00:07:46.880If you've been double vaxxed, you don't you don't need to wear the mask.
00:07:50.020I mean, I could go on about the Fauci misleading for, you know, supposedly for our own good, because now even now he admits, yeah, I just didn't you know, I just didn't want to set a bad example.
00:07:59.120So why did you lie? Why did you lie to Rand Paul?
00:08:01.320And now again, here we are, you know, natural immunity doesn't count.
00:08:05.380It's all about the vaccine. And now we're there.
00:08:08.040We're at herd immunity. And these I don't know.
00:08:10.780I think they're just fear mongers refuse to set us free, because as you point out, their refusal to align with the science and the facts, they really do have it does have consequences on real Americans lives.
00:08:23.980Listen, when you go back a year ago, when they said we need to do these restrictions, we don't have any information about this virus.
00:08:29.720We don't have treatments. We don't have a vaccine.
00:08:31.840OK, I understand. In the beginning, we needed to do that because they did have some effect.
00:08:36.160But then when the time the summer rolled around in the states that were doing really well, they had a hard time loosening up on any of those restrictions.
00:08:44.080Even California, by the end of summer, said no more outdoor dining.
00:08:47.740Yet they they couldn't point to the to any any truth that outdoor dining was contributing to their rise in cases.
00:08:54.780And with Dr. Fauci, unfortunately, that messaging when he has gone back and said, well, you may have needed masks, but I didn't want people to go and hoard the hoard the masks.
00:09:04.420And then he has recently said, well, in terms of the I keep moving the mark with herd immunity, it's because Americans are finally ready to hear what I have to say.
00:09:14.700And now just recently he has said, you know, people said, Dr. Fauci, why are you still wearing a mask when you're around other vaccinated individuals?
00:09:22.280And Dr. Fauci said, well, I wanted to wait until the CDC updated their recommendation so that we didn't have conflicting messages.
00:09:29.880But I'm like, hey, you are supposed to be the leader. Leaders need to push back when they see something wrong going on.
00:09:37.040If you do not push back against the CDC, the FDA, the WHO and information coming out of China, then you're a bystander.
00:09:44.720You're not the leader that the country needed you to be.
00:09:47.020Yep. It was originally he said, oh, herd immunity at 55 to 70 percent of the population haven't become immune.
00:09:54.820And now as soon as it started to look like more people would get the vaccine, he switched that to, well, it could be 75 to 90 percent of the country.
00:10:01.640I mean, I just don't listen to him anymore. I think Dr. Fauci has lost credibility.
00:10:06.520There's just no reason to even factor him in because he misleads by his own admission so often.
00:10:11.340And we're not stupid to your point earlier. We get it. Fauci is not an honest broker.
00:10:16.200So we got to move on and find people who are. But the other problem we're facing right now is that the media, they're not honest brokers either.
00:10:23.920And I know you've pointed out that these panic inciting headlines about breakthrough cases when somebody has been vaxxed and gets covid like the Yankee, the New York Yankee who got it and Bill Maher who got it.
00:10:38.640But your point is the media is making way too much of those. Why?
00:10:44.520You know, again, I think that you look back in the history of our nation and, you know, politicians have always weaponized our fear in a means to get elected.
00:10:54.540You know, vote for me. I'll save the economy. Vote for me. I'll save you from the pandemic.
00:10:58.100Well, the media is doing the same thing because, as they've woefully proven throughout this entire year, that they are aligned with certain political narratives.
00:11:06.100They are not the unbiased media that we would have them to be.
00:11:09.020I mean, even myself, I can tell you, I was criticized heavily on certain networks when I gave any sort of credence to a possible lab mistake error that could have contributed to the pandemic.
00:11:21.880And, you know, now all of a sudden, because Dr. Fauci says it's a possibility, well, I guess it's a possibility.
00:11:26.300But where are the retraction pieces calling me wrong in the fact that everything I said was discredited by real experts?
00:11:35.140You know, but that's one of the reasons why I wrote the book Panic Attack, because it was appalling to me that how big tech in the media immediately with knee jerk anti-Trumpism was working tirelessly to prove President Trump wrong.
00:11:49.460And everything that he did and they were raising up Dr. Fauci is the white knight and the hero of the pandemic when the truth is, we still didn't know we needed the trial and error discord.
00:12:01.060That's normal in science. What's not normal is what the media did and politicized that discord.
00:12:06.920Yes. In your book, Chapter seven, you have a great line.
00:12:10.360I have it underlined and highlighting highlighted saying there's been there's not been a shortage of blunders in response to covid.
00:12:17.100But public denialism and malfeasance are not major contributors, not right to the blunders.
00:12:22.760Rather, it is the weaponization of a public health crisis to invoke panic in an election year that resulted in the greatest consequences, which will be felt for years to come.
00:12:34.920So what do you mean by that? I get it. But expand on that.
00:12:37.700I mean, honestly, I could talk about this for hours, but I can tell you that right now you the very basic example, children and not being in school.
00:12:46.440They have got we have created this perceived risk of covid-19 in our young children.
00:12:52.740People are so fearful of it that not only have they kept children out of school, but when they're forced to go back to school, they're making these young children actually wear masks.
00:13:01.140But if you really look at the real risk of covid-19 to children, it does not parallel the perceived risk.
00:13:08.140And in fact, the CDC is the only entity in the world that is saying children over two years of age need to be wearing masks at all times.
00:13:15.820And and on top of that, when you talk about the social isolation, the mental health anguish, the rise of suicide attempts amongst our children, the substance abuse, there is so much that has come out of all of these restrictions.
00:13:32.580But it's because they have put out this perceived level of risk that wasn't necessarily real.
00:13:42.700I mean, this is the battle that we're fighting now, which is, you know, what happened to follow the science, believe science?
00:13:48.880We do. And the science is saying the kids are not significant transmitters of covid.
00:13:54.940They are not where the risk is, nor is there an emergency for them that would justify vaccines in these young ones.
00:14:02.400And yet this is where it's going. I mean, this is already where it's going.
00:14:06.420And when when you say, all right, well, I mean, like I'm relieved personally that all my kids are under the age of 12 and I don't have to vaccinate.
00:14:12.700You know, right now, I just feel like it's not necessary in the risk benefit calculations to it's not the right way for it to justify a vaccine of my seven year old.
00:14:21.060And what I hear in response to that is, oh, don't worry, it'll be ready for him by by September.
00:14:26.360Fauci's like, you know, hopefully we're going to have the vaccines ready for for kids as young as two by September.
00:14:31.940And and sooner or later, all babies are going to have to get it.
00:14:35.780There is zero chance I would give my baby a covid vaccine.
00:14:39.020Well, Megan, I can tell you, I have been speaking on this and writing on this a lot.
00:14:43.600And I agree with you. I have three kids of my own and I can tell you two are under the age of 12.
00:14:48.940My oldest is 21. He made the decision to get vaccinated on his own accord.
00:14:53.500He teaches summer camps over the summer and he works with autistic children.
00:14:57.600And he said he would feel terrible if he gave the virus to a disabled child.
00:15:03.240And I applaud him for that. He didn't do it for himself. He did it for those around him.
00:15:07.300And that's why most young adults, we encourage vaccinations.
00:15:10.440But when it comes to vaccinating the young children, as I have said, covid is not an emergency in them,
00:15:17.160especially as viral transmission has gone down, as we have gotten new data that showed even the low hospitalization rate of young children has now even been inflated.
00:15:25.920So the risk of severe illness is even lower than we thought and under no way, shape or form should the vaccine be expanded under emergency use authorization for these young children,
00:15:36.400because covid is not an emergency for them. And to just expand it through that without seeking the full FDA approval is irresponsible, in my opinion.
00:15:44.460Right. And why are they why? Why are they doing that to our kids?
00:15:49.520I understand the pressure on the grownups to get the vaccine. Totally get it.
00:15:53.740Why are they so focused on the children with the masks and the vaccines?
00:15:58.500It's like we have gotten to herd immunity already without mandating that.
00:16:04.100So what is it like they just want to drive the vaccination numbers up or what?
00:16:08.880So I think that there are a few things here, Megan.
00:16:11.140First of all, we we vaccinate the most vulnerable, right, our elderly, because that's going to save the most amount of lives.
00:16:17.640That's going to keep the most amount of people out of the hospital and keep our country functioning.
00:16:21.500You move on to the younger populations, not necessarily the children, but the younger populations, young adults, because they can still transmit the virus.
00:16:29.920They're not may not be hospitalized for it, but they're transmitting it.
00:16:32.480And when you transmit the virus, that is how those variants form.
00:16:35.700And unfortunately, at one point, a variant may form that's going to escape the immunity.
00:16:41.200And we will start all over again, which that is why we don't want that to happen.
00:16:45.340However, thus far, every single variant is covered by the vaccines and looks like natural immunity.
00:16:51.360The Brazilian variant has a little bit more breakthrough infections than the rest.
00:16:55.000But natural immunity, vaccine induced immunity has been very strong.
00:16:58.480And as we see, our community viral transmission level is so low.
00:17:02.480I think they're just having a really hard time letting go.
00:18:28.020We need to start moving our train of thought from testing everyone just to see if the presence of the virus is there to whether it is actually clinically significant.
00:18:40.900And what are the odds of a vaccinated person spreading COVID to another vaccinated person?
00:18:47.680You're saying even to a non-vaccinated person, it's it's they're they're not an effective spreader once they've had the vaccine.
00:18:55.140But what are the odds of a vaccinated person actually spreading spreading it to a vaccinated person in a way that would be deadly or problematic for the recipient?
00:19:04.420It's you know, there's I can't even give you an actual figure, but there's been various claims that show that the risk of that happening is so exceedingly low.
00:19:31.080You have to remember, not everyone responds the same to vaccinations.
00:19:34.440You have people who just don't mount a strong response for whatever reason.
00:19:38.820That's why none of the vaccines have said they were 100 percent efficacious in all adults and also those who have certain autoimmune diseases on medications, transplant recipients.
00:19:48.940They don't necessarily mount a strong immune response to the vaccine, but they are still mounting an immune response much like more.
00:19:56.420Mostly are more than 50 percent, which is better than the flu vaccine, mind you.
00:20:01.440So, again, when you have more people in a population who have some form of immunity, even if you're not at 100 percent, the risk of that virus transmitting between two vaccinated people, two immune people or even one person with immunity to one person without immunity is very low.
00:20:18.620So if you are high risk, if you still have concerns, wear a mask, avoid gatherings, that's fine.
00:20:26.380Whatever you want to do to live your life.
00:20:28.340But for the greater good of the population, it's unnecessary.
00:20:31.700Yes. And now but what you get in terms of the fear mongering is what if variants one never knows.
00:20:41.720You know, we just saw that the teachers unions, the second largest run by Randy Weingarten, who's citing debunked and conspiracy based facts about alleged facts, but really lies about Florida and the numbers there to try to push back on schools and what's happening down there.
00:20:58.280So this person is not a not a reliable person to listen to, but they basically the claim is variants, variants, variants, variants.
00:21:06.500And that's why we had to have interminable masking.
00:21:08.840Even the CDC director, right, Walensky, Rochelle Walensky, that she she can't take good news if it hits her over the head.
00:21:29.720And, you know, it's like it's like I mean, you're in the in the cancer prevention and treatment business.
00:21:33.860It's like saying to a cancer patient, he says, when you're discharging them from from the hospital after a long and successful battle with cancer.
00:21:41.740Remember, there's a small chance it could come back.
00:21:45.280So my message to every patient that I tell have cancer and then they get through their treatment is they they understand that there is risk with everything in life.
00:21:53.160But if all you do is focus on that risk and perseverate over that risk, what was the point of prolonging your life?
00:21:59.580Because you're no longer enjoying your life.
00:22:02.760And I mean, I have many criticisms of Randy Weingarten, the teachers union leader.
00:22:07.860But, you know, she tweeted out showing the CDC study.
00:22:11.140This is the problem with people who like to cherry pick data based off of headlines and don't actually read the studies is that she was like, you know what?
00:22:32.540Last fall, the CDC looked at elementary schools K through five.
00:22:36.120They found the two metrics that reduced spread of the virus were with increased ventilation, you know, whether it's filtration systems, windows open, what have you.
00:22:49.320And that was, again, before the vaccine.
00:22:51.260When it came to whether the children were wearing masks or not, that was actually not statistically significant, having a reduction in viral transmission.
00:22:58.900So she really just negated her own argument.
00:24:39.680Again, it ties down to this fear-mongering, and I really don't understand it.
00:24:44.100You know, I wrote an opinion piece last summer when teachers were not wanting to go back to school, and you were seeing those protests saying, how can we teach your children if we're dead?
00:24:53.760You know, all of these panic-inciting headlines, again, the impetus of my book.
00:24:58.080And I said, hey, you guys are frontline workers.
00:25:02.080You are tasked with educating our young generations.
00:25:06.280Let's figure out a way to get you back to work, just like the rest of us frontline workers have been doing since the beginning of the pandemic.
00:25:13.560And they need to, I needed them to change their mindset and to see their importance of their role.
00:25:23.120Face mask wearing, we're only going to see the consequences of that.
00:25:26.200We know that facial recognition is vital when it comes to childhood development, and children are not developing those social skills that they need to develop to become human beings and functioning members of society.
00:25:39.140This data is all going to come in the next few years.
00:25:41.960The people tasked with educating our children need to treat themselves like frontline workers.
00:25:53.620Plus, it's like, why is the lady who is, you know, probably in her late 60s, who checks me out at the grocery store, who deals with far more people on an intimate basis, you know, up close and in her face, grownups, by the way, they're in the grocery store doing her essential job.
00:26:09.340And the teachers, who can stay far away from the children if they need to, they don't have to be on top of each other, pretending that it's unsafe for them to be with a far more low risk population.
00:26:23.540So, but down in Texas, they have reason, unlike here in the Northeast, where these states are still cowering in fear.
00:26:30.420But just to go back to the Texas thing, Randy says, you know, another reckless and dangerous move from the governor of Texas.
00:26:37.000This follows up on everybody melting down when Governor Abbott lifted a lot of the mandates there and actually threatened to find cities and local officials if they imposed mask mandates.
00:26:48.780Back then, when he lifted the mandate in March, Biden said it was Neanderthal thinking.
00:27:08.520Here in New York, New Jersey, different story.
00:27:11.340So, can we talk about what's happening here?
00:27:12.860Because now the CDC, after issuing ridiculous prescriptions for the summer, I mean, they were saying kids had to wear masks every day in day camp.
00:27:22.300By the way, the New York Times just ran a piece the other day saying experts, experts, they had all these experts, say it is, and I quote, somewhat safe for your kid to swim in the water without a COVID mask.
00:29:16.760Because if we don't start standing up to this BS, they'll keep these little ones in masks forever.
00:29:21.240Up next, some in the mainstream media now seem to be finally getting around to admitting that there is, let's say, a better than average chance that this virus started in a Wuhan lab.
00:29:33.460You know, people who have been paying attention have suspected this and believed it.
00:29:58.320The Wall Street Journal now has a report saying three researchers at the Wuhan lab, that Wuhan lab that was devoted to studying coronaviruses and bats, became significantly sick in November of 2019.
00:30:16.300The Journal reports, it's based on a U.S. intelligence report that the and they say that the WHO is about to meet to discuss the next phase of the COVID origin investigation.
00:30:45.260And Pompeo, like you, came out and said he tweeted over a year ago.
00:30:49.740I told Martha Raddatz that the Wuhan virus most likely came from a lab leak.
00:30:53.920She stopped just short of offering me a tin hat.
00:30:56.340But the CCP, the Chinese, said I was an enemy of mankind.
00:31:01.140And now, well, now the left wing media is scrambling to get on the side of truth because their new narrative now is that, yes, there was some stuff out there, Nicole, about, you know, possibly the Wuhan lab.
00:31:14.120But really, the reason they didn't go with that was Trump.
00:31:17.960And I give you I'm going to give you the floor, but I give you Maggie Haberman on CNN with this line.
00:31:24.300Listen, a lot of the discussion about the lab leak, I think, was clouded early on because there was the suggestion by some that it was somehow a Chinese weapon that that caused this.
00:31:35.940That's not what we're talking about here.
00:31:48.200And look, I do think it's important to remember that part of the issue when this was first being reported on and discussed back a few months after the pandemic had begun was that then President Trump and Mike Pompeo, the secretary of state, both suggested they had seen evidence that this was formed in a lab.
00:32:04.580And they also suggested it was not released on purpose, but they refused to release the evidence showing what it was.
00:32:09.920And so because of that, that made this instantly political.
00:32:13.640Listen, it only got made political because the media made it political.
00:32:17.980The bottom line is, yes, a biological weapon, weaponry across the globe is a thing.
00:32:23.920And there are people developing biological weapons such as anthrax and coronaviruses that could potentially be harmful to global populations.
00:32:32.560However, in the beginning of the pandemic, when people were discussing the close proximity of that Wuhan lab, whether or not they were saying that there was an intentional escape or leak of the virus or if it was an accidental leak, the bottom line was it was quickly, quickly just canceled and not discussed whatsoever.
00:32:52.820And the truth is, yes, there were some people saying that this was intentional.
00:32:56.360And I can tell you my personal opinion is I don't believe this was intentional.
00:32:59.840I believe that I think that accidents in these labs happen.
00:33:03.120This wouldn't be the first time it's happened and resulted in epidemic.
00:33:12.000They've happened in the United States, too.
00:33:13.800The big thing that happened was the cover up by the CCP and then the echoing of information from the World Health Organization.
00:33:21.260And then the fact that just because President Trump mentioned it, did everyone say that this is conspiracy and would not even hold the Chinese accountable to see what happened?
00:33:31.020And unfortunately, now any any evidence is likely destroyed or gone.
00:33:38.360We're never we're never going to have the the smoking gun released because there we had on Josh Rogan of The Washington Post, who's done extensive reporting on this and just came out with a book on it.
00:33:47.680And he and the the like the main people in that lab, a couple of people who may have had covid have been have disappeared.
00:33:54.640They're like they're no longer around.
00:33:57.060They're unclear what happened to them.
00:33:58.720But the it's not like the United States where you're going to even the United States covers things up.
00:34:03.240Just ask Glenn Greenwald. But we're not going to have some report in which they admitted or we catch them.
00:34:07.980We're just going to have to use our our own intelligence.
00:34:09.900All right. Let me ask you this. I want to talk for a minute about vaccines.
00:34:13.300As I said, I just got my second Pfizer.
00:34:59.200The anti-vax movement existed well before covid.
00:35:02.140And they truly believe that vaccines are created by the government and big pharma and are given to us that cause more harm than good.
00:35:11.320And it's going to be very difficult to ever move them away from that that way of thinking, despite how much evidence and data that is shown to them.
00:35:20.040They are of a mindset that really we're going to have a difficult time with.
00:35:23.260Now, what the vaccine hesitant, you know, listen, I understand them.
00:35:28.440We had we had this Operation Warp Speed at the beginning of the pandemic come forth.
00:35:33.960We had a president who was a business leader and he said, all right, we're going to need a vaccine.
00:35:40.040I'm going to put billions of dollars towards this.
00:35:42.660Listen, I'm going to say to the researchers, do whatever you have to do.
00:35:45.580I'm going to help you manufacture these vaccines while you're researching them.
00:35:49.960So the moment you determine if it works, it's going to be ready to go.
00:36:03.760And you have to know that even though that was expedited, it was expedited in the sense that it was manufactured in parallel.
00:36:13.220The process of discovery and determining if it was safe was not done with haste.
00:36:18.800And while we have seen reports come out that there have been some complications, I can tell you that there's always going to be complications when it comes to vaccines.
00:36:26.160And you have to think about how many people across the globe at this point have gotten vaccinated.
00:36:30.380In the United States alone, we've delivered over 100 million doses.
00:36:36.180And the fact that there have been so rare occurrences of any safety issues tells you that all of these are rare.
00:36:43.480But there will be risk with anything you do, whether it's walking outside, getting in your car.
00:36:49.220I can tell you you're a much higher likelihood of dying in a car crash than you are to have a severe side effect from the COVID vaccine at this point.
00:36:56.220And so it's important that the messaging is there.
00:36:59.240And unfortunately, again, the media grabs hold of things.
00:37:02.560When we were hearing about the blood clots, when we're hearing about some of these other things, we have to put them in context and how few they are compared to how many people have received it.
00:37:13.220You know, I'll tell you, just not for nothing, but a woman, another mom at my kid's school was telling me she got the J&J vaccine and she did get a blood clot.
00:37:23.460She was not counted in the number that led to the shutdown, but she she did get it prior to that.
00:38:03.280So the reason that the reason these clots, these blood clots are so interesting in the people who's are post the J&J vaccine is so heparin is a medication that helps break up clots.
00:38:14.700So if you're having a stroke or a heart attack or any other blood clot, you know, we give the heparin and it tries to break it up.
00:38:20.060Well, what we're seeing in these patients is there's something called HIT, heparin induced thrombocytopenia, where you're actually having an autoimmune response to the heparin and you start breaking down your own platelets.
00:38:31.760So the heparin is causing you to destroy your own platelets.
00:38:36.240It's not necessarily helping the clot.
00:38:38.020And now you're going to have a bleeding disorder because platelets stop you from bleeding.
00:38:42.120And so that is the biggest concern, because if someone was to present with a blood clot, you give them heparin.
00:38:48.340But the heparin was actually doing more harm than good in these patients.
00:38:50.820So it was essential to get the word out to health care people to make sure if they're recently post vaccinated not to give heparin.
00:38:58.180Well, her biggest takeaway, she's fine, 100 percent fine.
00:39:00.760But her biggest takeaway was the number of doctors who were all over her in the hospital, because, you know, the medical community is very primed to, I think, for good reason, try to keep these vaccine complication numbers low and make sure that these are survivable, survivable events, which it completely was for her.
00:39:31.300But, you know, you do hear these stories and I understand the reticence to to go for it.
00:39:36.580And now can I ask you about the there's a report in The New York Times that the CDC is investigating heart problems in just a few, just a few young vaccine recipients.
00:39:48.920I always look at this because it's like, well, would they have had heart problems without the vaccine?
00:39:52.940Like if you take a big sample, anybody's going to have a few problems.
00:39:56.720But they say most appear to be mild, predominantly in adolescents and young adults, more often in males than females.
00:40:03.500And your thoughts on it's called, I guess, myocarditis.
00:40:07.660What do you tell parents who are worried about that?
00:40:10.280Myocarditis is a fancy word for inflammation of the heart.
00:40:12.700And, you know, I can say that there are actually reports of this out of Israel following the Pfizer vaccines.
00:40:19.120Again, a handful of reports, mostly young adult males, a few adolescents.
00:40:25.000And when you look at the grand scheme of things, how many people were vaccinated there, the occurrences were extremely rare.
00:40:31.480But so I can tell you that just like with blood clots, SARS-CoV-2 can cause inflammation of the heart.
00:40:37.540So when you are giving someone a vaccine that is supposed to emulate the immune response to SARS-CoV-2, it's not so surprising that you're going to have some you're going to have inflammation.
00:40:48.640And it may mimic that of the of what happens when you're infected with the virus.
00:40:52.600And since we know young adults and adolescents actually mount probably stronger immune responses to the vaccine than older people do, it's not surprising there's more inflammation.
00:41:02.560But again, this is something that they're going to have to look at very, very thoroughly, because we know that SARS-CoV-2 poses a very low risk of severity when it comes to young people.
00:41:15.060Are there going to be more cases of cardiac inflammation following vaccines, or are there going to be more young people who get the virus that are going to have cardiac inflammation?
00:41:24.540And especially when we have such low viral transmission, they're going to have to they have to take that into account.
00:41:30.060And unfortunately, they're not again, they're not acknowledging the emergency is over.
00:41:34.900I think it's prudent and very important to have a safe and efficacious vaccine for all ages, whether it should be universally recommended.
00:41:43.860I'm certainly not on board, especially when it comes to younger people.
00:41:47.540What vaccine did you get? I assume you got vaccinated.
00:41:50.140Well, so, Megan, you'll be the first to know I am not vaccinated.
00:41:54.660And I'll tell you why. And I'll tell you why. This is this is the debut.
00:41:59.160I've actually never spoke about this publicly.
00:42:04.280Big news. So, of course, I was offered it the moment they became available by my institution that I work at.
00:42:09.980But I have an autoimmune disease that affects my heart.
00:42:13.000And just like I desperately did not want to get COVID-19 because I was terrified it would affect my heart, my entire family rallied around me to try and keep me safe, despite the fact that my husband and I were going into the hospital nearly every day working.
00:42:26.720When it came to being vaccinated, I had strong conversations with my rheumatologist and my cardiologist saying, hey, guys, what do we think about inducing inflammation right now?
00:42:38.780And, you know, they said, I think we should give it a few weeks, although we have no evidence saying you shouldn't get it.
00:42:44.780We don't have any evidence saying you should get it.
00:42:47.440We know that COVID wouldn't do well in you, but we don't know what the vaccine would do.
00:42:52.300And after about several weeks of data, they started coming around saying, you know what, we think the right thing to do is for you to get it because we can treat your autoimmune flares.
00:43:02.060We still don't know how to treat COVID-19.
00:43:50.180Good gosh, no, I would have taken 20 Pfizer vaccines by now rather than dealing with what I've had to deal with.
00:43:57.700I mean, I have been more convinced over the last six months of data that, you know, specifically the mRNA vaccines have are doing an incredible job in our country, across the world.
00:45:00.020So mRNA, you have to know you have there are certain different types of proteins and certain a lot of aspects go into just talking about DNA.
00:45:10.020And, you know, without getting into the nitty gritty of it, when it comes to these vaccines,
00:45:14.860mRNA is essentially a piece of genetic code that your body takes up.
00:45:19.220It's not incorporating it into your DNA.
00:46:09.820But so that's how you would recognize it in the future.
00:46:12.100But one of the most incredible things with the mRNA vaccines are they're much easier to manufacture.
00:46:18.180They are much easier to tweak so that they cover variants and make boosters.
00:46:23.280And I truly believe that this is going to be the future when it comes to vaccines because of just how well they are doing, how safe they're proving to be, how few contraindications there are, and how just easy it is in terms of manufacturing and distribution.
00:46:38.120What else do you think we're going to be able to get vaccinated against thanks to this technology?
00:46:42.400Honestly, I think the sky's the limit.
00:46:44.620We are already looking to vaccinate against cancers, recurrent cancers, trying to get it so that we can activate a person's own immune system to fight off those cancer cells.
00:46:56.680You know, I think, obviously, pathogens, viruses, bacteria, that's where the focus is.
00:47:01.920But you will certainly be hearing about it when it comes to cancer treatment and prevention as well.
00:47:07.260I picture it as like creating a little army base camp inside your body.
00:47:10.780Like, here's the little guy who's going to fight COVID.
00:47:12.820Here's the guy who's going to fight breast cancer.
00:47:14.680Here's the guy who's going to fight pancreatic cancer thanks to these mRNA vaccines, which are just, they're miraculous.
00:47:24.060All right, here's my other question to you.
00:47:25.560It occurred to me, having researched the Pfizer vaccine a bit, it said that after one dose, I was 82%, you know, effective at, you know, fighting off serious illness.
00:47:37.600And then I looked at the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, which said, you're basically 85%.
00:47:42.260And I thought, why the hell am I getting the second shot?
00:47:45.160Why do I need the second shot of the Pfizer thing to go from 82% to 85%?
00:47:52.080And this is something, you know, my friend Marty McCary and I have talked about at length since December.
00:47:58.140He and I had a little bit more of the mindset of what the UK did.
00:48:01.820We said, when supply was an issue, we need to give as many people the first dose as soon as possible to get some level of immunity.
00:48:09.580Because even if it was 80%, that's much better than 0%.
00:48:13.700And, you know, that is not the strategy the U.S. adopted.
00:48:17.880And they were really, they just kind of cowered to their own restrictions in the sense that, well, the clinical trial was only looking at two doses.
00:48:28.100It's like, okay, well, we are still in a time of crisis.
00:48:30.880And when you're in a time of crisis, you can't wait for those randomized controlled trials and stick to the black and white literature.
00:48:37.880That's something that Dr. Fauci, unfortunately, had a really hard time with in the beginning.
00:48:41.900He is a scientific purist and did not want to go against the grain when it came to old guard academics.
00:48:48.900And when it came to the vaccines, yes, that first dose gives you a good response.
00:48:53.960But I can tell you, new data out of India, this is interesting.
00:48:58.140That variant of concern in India that's now in the U.K., study from England showed that variant B.1.6172, after two Pfizer doses, you have about an 88% effectiveness at preventing symptomatic disease.
00:49:14.420But it's only 33% after three weeks after that first dose.
00:49:20.520So, you know, I don't, honestly, I could pick apart that study if I wanted to.
00:49:25.720So, however, there is ample data that shows two doses are better than one, except if you've had COVID, it shows that just one dose really just amps up that existing natural immunity.
00:49:37.760And so maybe you don't need the second dose.
00:49:39.640But overall, recommendations, CDC, everywhere else, get your two doses on schedule.
00:49:45.080That really does give you the best chance for reducing your risk of severe COVID and transmitting it to others.
00:50:06.700And I really want more than anything for my children to never have to wear masks again.
00:50:11.500I want to be in charge of whether they put that piece of fabric over their nose and mouth and not Governor Cuomo or anybody else for that matter.
00:50:21.660And so I'll give you the last word on that before I let you go.
00:51:26.680Coming up after this break, we're going to bring on Dr. Lucy McBride, who first got my attention when she wrote in The Atlantic, and I quote,
00:51:34.100I tell my patients not to mask their kids outside.
00:51:37.360And as I mentioned earlier, she goes on MSNBC and says these things, and she will say it to anybody.
00:51:41.800She will say it to you, and I will ask her about masks inside, and we have a little news coming up on that.
00:51:48.380But before we get to Lucy, I want to bring you a feature we have called Sound Up, where we bring you some sound, a soundbite that we feel you need to hear.
00:51:57.320Today, we're talking about the scandal around Cuomo.
00:52:01.500No, not Governor Andrew Cuomo this time.
01:07:12.360So, you know, because we have all been exposed to, you know, unbridled in some cases fear,
01:07:18.800but at some level, an anxiety response to this threat called COVID-19, it's normal to feel anxious and have heart palpitations, sweaty palms,
01:07:28.100tight muscles, headaches, insomnia, to have a gravitational pull to alcohol at the end of the day to take a load off.
01:07:36.140The problem is they affect us mentally and physically.
01:07:39.260And then when you're anxious, you can actually have this kind of cognitive distortion where you overreact to threats that aren't actually that threatening.
01:07:48.980We saw that can I ask you a follow up on that, though, because I I also feel that those of us who cannot take one more day of these unnecessary restrictions are having some of those reactions.
01:08:06.940You know, I feel anxiety when they say to my kid, she's got to put a mask on and run around outside in 90 degree weather with other nine and 10 year olds.
01:08:50.560If I have a cancer patient and we're deciding on a treatment plan and the patient can't tolerate the chemotherapy because it makes them so sick and they understand the consequences of not treating aggressively this cancer.
01:09:02.700There are harms of doing and harms of not doing.
01:09:04.200Similarly, and by the way, my job in that situation is to help people decide based on their broad human goals and needs and unique medical conditions to decide the best plan for them and to arm the patient with facts and science.
01:09:19.840Similarly, in COVID-19, there are harms of COVID-19 and it's unique to different people based on their underlying conditions and vulnerabilities.
01:09:29.700There are harms of the pandemic restrictions themselves.
01:09:33.260As the public health landscape has changed, as we see a steadily dropping case rate, death rate, hospitalization rate, as the country is being blanketed by these miraculous vaccines, it no longer makes sense to have the kind of restrictions we do in general.
01:09:50.260That said, people are welcome to mask freely when they want to, if they are vulnerable.
01:09:56.340But let's just say this, Megan, it does not make sense to mask anyone outside.
01:10:03.000If you want to mask outside, by all means, there should be no shaming or blaming for masking.
01:10:30.160No, I want to get to the masking of the children.
01:10:32.520But before I get to that, I agree with you.
01:10:34.200I do not agree that people who choose to wear masks should be shamed in any way.
01:10:38.880You know, I don't think, I don't comment on Megan Fox wearing basically a Kleenex tissue to the music awards the other night because that's up to her, right?
01:10:51.400Kim Kardashian prance around in dental floss on the internet as much as she likes.
01:11:50.100Um, but my kids, and this is why your article so spoke to me because you, you, you'll go on Fox, but you'll also go on MSNBC.
01:11:56.760And I do think it's more sort of the left wing that needs to hear your message that the masks on the children are unnecessary, at least outdoors.
01:12:06.780And, and yet that should be a no brainer.
01:12:11.120And you said, I tell my patients kids with or without vaccinations do not need to wear masks outside, despite CDC guidelines.
01:12:23.200So are the, is the C, I haven't actually seen the latest CDC guidelines on outdoor masks on children.
01:12:29.420Are they, are they still saying they should?
01:12:30.960They are, and I have a little inside person on, they, the CDC is still recommending outside masking for, for kiddos.
01:12:41.400But I have heard through the grapevine that is going to change as it should.
01:12:46.540The problem with CDC issuing guidance that is, as you said, catering to the sort of least calm denominator and the fear-based narrative is that it runs the risk of, of, of, of causing people to distrust our public health institutions.
01:13:02.480Now, this is not to say I don't respect Rochelle, Rochelle, Rochelle, this is not to say I don't respect Rochelle Walensky.
01:13:08.680She actually went to Harvard Medical School in Johns Hopkins, where I did all of my training.
01:13:12.760And I think she's a very, very, very smart, educated, wonderful person.
01:13:17.140She's speaking to every American, and that is hard to do, as we know.
01:13:20.600The, the pandemic has been so tragically politicized, masking somehow has a political meaning when it's really not political whatsoever.
01:13:29.260But the point is this, they unfortunately lose credibility when they do cater to that fear-based narrative.
01:13:37.440They need to be a little more flexible and nimble and issue more nuanced guidance for children in particular.
01:13:42.340Children are the people who right now, as you know, are not vaccinated, not eligible to be vaccinated, the 11s and under,
01:13:48.880and also who have suffered uniquely in the pandemic from isolation, loneliness, depression, anxiety.
01:13:55.900And in many cases, you know, their safety has been sacrificed, and they're not being fed because they're not going to school.
01:14:03.520So the harms of pandemic restrictions right now on our children as a whole greatly outweigh the benefits, the protection against COVID-19,
01:14:13.360which kids are generally spared from the horrors of COVID-19.
01:14:17.500Have kids died? Have kids gotten very sick? Yes.
01:14:21.300And moreover, as we blanket the country with vaccines and adults, and as the case rates drop in adults,
01:14:30.000the case rates are also dropping in kids.
01:14:31.960In other words, kids are indirectly protected by the adults around them being vaccinated.
01:14:36.200So there's no reason right now, zero reason to mask kids outside unless they want to.
01:14:42.500And there's really no indication right now that in the fall, for example, there should be any masking or plexiglass or any of that theater right now in schools.
01:14:54.140That's what I want to get to inside, because I'll tell you, our school right now is saying they gave us sort of the preliminary.
01:15:00.220I think they're sort of laying the foundation to get us prepared for the ultimate guidance to come out is saying.
01:15:07.400We're not we don't think right now we're going to mandate vaccinations for children who are 12 and up, you know, because they can get it.
01:15:15.040But we do think we're going to require indoor masking across the board when they come back and for anybody who hasn't been vaccinated in particular.
01:15:24.500And that means my seven year old will have to wear a mask again all day long.
01:15:32.760And so my son's still going to be my oldest is still going to be 11 when he goes back to school.
01:15:36.560My daughter's still going to be 10 when she goes back to school all day long.
01:15:41.120And for what? And the reason I mentioned the seven year old is how far could you take this?
01:15:47.100I don't know that they're going to have a an out and out cure for covid once you've gotten covid between now and the time he turns 12.
01:15:54.760Right. And what about parents who just don't want to vaccinate their child or they have something with their child where they, you know, we just had a doctor on saying in her case, in her own case,
01:16:02.240she was saying it didn't make sense to vaccinate her because she's got an immunocompromised situation that doesn't allow it.
01:16:07.640Anyway, what if you've got a kid like that? They have to mask for five years until they're like or interminably.
01:16:13.320Why don't we take it out to senior year of high school?
01:16:15.700So this is exactly what we need is is is metrics issued by the CDC.
01:16:20.400We need to have clean metrics like the UK had when we have, for example, three cases per 100000 population in a certain community.
01:16:29.500Then we should be able to lift mask mandates for anyone vaccinated or unvaccinated, no matter what age they are, with the understanding that anybody who's high risk can mask.
01:16:40.000Anybody who hasn't been vaccinated can mask anybody who lives with a high risk individual, of course, can mask.
01:16:45.900But I have every confidence that the restrictions are going to be lifted by the fall.
01:16:53.060So if you were in charge of the guidance for schools, in charge of the CDC, in charge of, you know, all these schools trying to make a decision on masks for the fall, what would you advise?
01:17:02.540I love that question. So thinking ahead to the next academic year, the science supports a return to regular life.
01:17:08.340Teachers are vaccinated by and large. Case rates are falling right in front of our eyes right now.
01:17:13.900And by the time the school year rolls around, cases will be even lower, which protects kids indirectly.
01:17:19.780Twelve and up will be vaccinated, those kiddos.
01:17:23.520And also by by then we will hopefully have more confidence in the very facts that are this, that plexiglass barriers don't make any sense from a disease mitigation standpoint.
01:17:35.460The virus is largely airborne. We don't need to have plexiglass.
01:17:38.460The spread from athletic equipment and surfaces is so minuscule and small that we just don't need to take those precautions to protect our kids from COVID-19.
01:17:48.940What we need to do and we need to hear from the CDC is this, that there are clean metrics as to when we can really lift these restrictions, follow the UK's lead and, you know,
01:18:00.020wait till hospitalization rates are two or three in a hundred thousand a day while we are mass vaccinating adults.
01:18:08.660In the meantime, at camp, kids should not be masked outside.
01:18:13.900I mean, it just doesn't make sense. It's not rooted in science.
01:18:17.320There are dangers there. Kids can pass out from wearing a mask outside.
01:18:21.500Again, there's nothing political about what I'm saying. It's just rooted in science.
01:18:24.780Is it possible to transmit the virus outside from unvaccinated to unvaccinated person?
01:18:33.980And and so, OK, so you're if you were in charge of the world, you would recommend if the vaccination rates are what they are now, if the infection rates are I mean, are we far off of that?
01:18:46.540It depends on where you are in the country, but we're getting there and in a couple of different parts of the country and anything can happen.
01:18:53.620Like, you know, I don't have a crystal ball. We could have, you know, variants from India come over and and mess up our metrics.
01:19:00.520Right. Which is arguably, you know, the second best reason to vaccinate people in India.
01:19:05.900The first best reason is because we care about our global allies.
01:19:08.960So I don't have a crystal ball. Could case rates increase and could hospitalizations increase?
01:19:14.060They could. But if you look at how wealthy we are as a country and how motivated this administration is to get shots in arms and how motivated people are around the country to get shots.
01:19:23.940And you look at the curves and you look at UK and Israel as the seniors and we're the sophomores.
01:19:30.600I mean, we're going to be in such better shape in the fall than we are now.
01:19:34.900And right now we are in excellent shape.
01:19:36.520OK, good. So I like that. So if if Dr. Lucy McBride is setting policy for the United States, it sounds like she's going to say the kids don't have to be masked inside schools come fall, come fall.
01:19:49.180If the hospitalization rates are consistently two to three out of one hundred thousand a day, which we should be at.
01:19:59.160And look, I don't claim to know every single thing about public health, but I do know that, you know, the public is is angry.
01:20:05.880The public is afraid and the public is desperate and thirsty for more nuanced guidance.
01:20:12.840People and parents in particular right now are really, really agitated and distressed about their kids, not just because they want their kids to play with their friends, but because kids are actively depressed.
01:20:23.820The suicide rates are going up. Kids are not being fed.
01:20:27.340They are not safe. So it's a real crisis.
01:20:31.720It's a mental health crisis. We all know about post-traumatic stress, right?
01:20:35.340When you've experienced trauma, whether it's the loss of a loved one, the loss of a job or the loss of your in-person high school experience or just the mere loss of the contours of normal life.
01:20:46.280We all have experienced loss in the pandemic and that causes a post-traumatic stress reaction for anyone.
01:20:52.440If you're if you're human, there's also something called post-traumatic growth where you can take the things you've been through and make meaning and find resilience and be stronger.
01:21:02.100We need to understand that Americans as a group, we have been through a collective trauma.
01:21:07.820We need to know that COVID is going away, not forever, not completely, but that the trauma and the reverberation on our thoughts, feelings and behaviors is going to be lasting.
01:21:20.080And when we hold our kids hostage to restrictions that are not rooted in science and evidence, we have big costs to their emotional health, well-being and safety.
01:21:33.220Exactly right. The cost of these children and having these masks on their faces and not seeing one another.
01:21:38.000And, you know, you don't see smiles anymore. You don't see smile.
01:21:41.240I notice it just when I'm walking on the street and whatever you see.
01:21:44.020I I always like whenever I see an older woman in particular, we catch eyes.
01:21:47.540I smile at them. I just love the faces of older women. I don't know what it is.
01:21:51.020Yeah, I don't plan on letting my own face get like that, but I but I like seeing it another.
01:21:56.720I kid. And I miss it like I'm smiling and I think they're smiling.
01:22:02.640I'm trying to smile, you know, smile with your eyes.
01:22:06.580I would just want to show my face and give him a big toothy grin and have that moment of connection.
01:22:11.600And that's just that's just me, little ones who, you know, there's so much they learn by being with one another and figuring out facial expressions where they that's sort of where they show their emotions.
01:22:21.300Right. They haven't managed to use the words perfectly to express them.
01:22:24.680I just that's right. I'm not much of an activist, but I feel like getting to be one on this.
01:22:29.560Yeah. I mean, you know, back in March 2020, we had a very different situation.
01:22:33.620We didn't know what kind of animal this this virus was, you know, we had to really make it clear that everyone is vulnerable.
01:22:42.600Everyone, you know, it needed to be all hands on deck to protect ourselves, our communities from this lethal virus.
01:22:50.540We were watching TV. We were watching, you know, we're watching people in ICUs and refrigerator trucks outside of emergency rooms.
01:22:57.500And people were terrified. And we should have been right because we have lost, I think it's almost 600,000 American lives.
01:23:06.020This is nothing short of a trauma. At the same time, that was then.
01:23:09.760And this is now, as you said earlier, we were acting like it was a tiger in the wild because we needed to.
01:23:17.180It's not a tiger anymore. It is for some people who are vulnerable and we need to respect their vulnerabilities.
01:23:23.200But for most people and for kids in particular, the harms of the pandemic restrictions outweigh the benefits and the emotional health toll on kids is huge.
01:23:38.260That's right. And I know I noticed that you had mentioned at one point, even for adults, that two in five Americans report an average weight gain of 29 pounds during the pandemic.
01:23:50.580I mean, that is that's a lot. And of course, we did exactly the wrong thing, which is like no gyms and in places like California, no parks, no exercising.
01:24:00.200I was like, sit at home, eat, drink and don't go outside to exercise while we increase one of our comorbidities, obesity.
01:24:08.400Right. And that, too, causes depression. You got an extra 29 pounds on you right now.
01:24:13.020You absolutely probably have more depression than normal.
01:24:15.980So it's like all these things need to start shedding. We need to shed the pounds. We need to shed the restrictions.
01:24:21.560We need to get back to real life. And people who need to protect themselves should absolutely do so.
01:24:26.920But I personally say the time for all of us making these enormous sacrifices and freedom to protect this number of, you know, afraid or compromised people.
01:24:38.060The balance has shifted in favor of normalcy. We all lived it when it was not in the favor of normalcy.
01:24:44.920It has shifted as far as I'm concerned. Anyways, I'll obey the rules because I'm generally a rule follower, but it's time to fight, at least for our kids.
01:24:53.140Absolutely. And I'm a rule follower, too. I'm a fact follower and a science follower.
01:24:57.380I also think there are some things that are hard to measure. It's very hard to measure and quantify distress and anxiety.
01:25:03.940You know, there's no kind of like blood test or MRI for emotional trauma.
01:25:08.880Yet those phenomena need to be put in the decision making rubric in our individual decisions for health and in the public health landscape.
01:25:18.960Just because it's hard to measure someone's depression doesn't mean it shouldn't weigh into the decisions on how to, you know, treat this person or how to treat this population.
01:25:29.840And the stress itself is making people sick.
01:25:32.960I mean, I witnessed the physical health fallout of emotional health and distress every day.
01:25:38.060People are stress eating. They're binge eating.
01:25:42.720They're adding, you know, pounds, not because they don't know about healthy eating, but because they are emotionally eating.
01:25:50.720So my job isn't to shame people and say, hey, you've gained 29 pounds.
01:25:55.180It's really to say, look, let's talk about the stress.
01:25:57.660Let's talk about how to better manage the emotional reaction that's normal in a global crisis.
01:26:03.200And let's have you build a coping kit that hopefully we built before, because that's part of my job in general, is not only to help people with like managing the blood pressure, but managing the mechanisms by which their blood pressure is high.
01:26:18.140And that's only that's only considering the patients who come in to see you.
01:26:21.680I mean, a lot of people who gain 29 pounds, they just postpone their their appointment appointment with their doctor because they don't want to talk about it.
01:26:29.220Yeah, I wrote a piece on abandoning shame in the doctor's office.
01:26:31.940I talked about it with a patient this morning who said I really didn't want to come in and I wanted to lose the weight before I saw you.
01:26:36.820And as I say to her every year, you know, you need to bring your whole self to the doctor.
01:26:43.580I'm here to provide a safe space under which we discuss what it is that's driving the weight gain.
01:26:49.960And for her, it's stress eating and the stress of losing her mother during a pandemic and managing the job and parenting kids on Zoom school has caused her to drink more.
01:27:05.000So, you know, my job is to say, tiff, tiff, tiff, you know, time to get your act together.
01:27:09.680It's really to help her figure out how to best manage stress by resuming regular exercise in a sustainable, healthy way.
01:27:16.240By trying to prioritize healthy eating so that she isn't drawn to the stuff that, you know, saps her energy.
01:27:22.780By just assessing her relationship with food, assessing her relationship with alcohol, and ultimately asking for help through asking for help with me.
01:27:31.900We're going to also help her get into some therapy.
01:27:33.940I think we need to make therapy universally available to every American, like we should make health care available to every American.
01:27:46.160It's also a parallel pandemic of mental health and crisis.
01:27:49.100So if we don't address the emotional and resulting physical health fallout from COVID-19, we are really missing an opportunity to help people get healthier from the ground up.
01:28:00.740It's funny because I come from an Italian mom, and she 100% raised all three of us to be emotional eaters.
01:28:06.840You know, my brother, he used to joke, too, that no amount of food was enough.
01:28:14.520She goes, okay, I'll just get you a sandwich then, you know, right?
01:28:19.640And I find myself stopping all the time if my kid falls down or if they're depressed or if they're sad or something hurt, stopping myself from giving them a cookie or offering them a lollipop or, you know, because I do think that's sort of teaching emotional eating.
01:28:34.360But, you know, it's sort of society, too.
01:28:36.580And we sort of built it in like food is attached with celebrate celebrations and it's attached with nurturing wounds.
01:28:43.320And you really just you have to be a little bit more strict.
01:28:47.220For me, I know we're definitely going to do a show on this.
01:28:49.680Intermittent fasting has made all the differences.
01:28:52.380Megan, let's talk about it, because here's the thing.
01:28:54.520I know a lot about nutrition and I can counsel my patients all day long to eat kale and quinoa and, you know, minimize refined starches.
01:29:01.860That is really the tip of the iceberg when we're talking about nutrition and health.
01:29:07.200The missing piece of the puzzle here is the relationship to food.
01:29:09.880Every single person on the planet has a relationship to food that is beyond just hunger.
01:29:15.540Right. And the thing about food is that you have to deal with it three times a day, sometimes five times a day, depending on what's healthy for you.
01:29:24.520And so if you have a relationship with food that is complicated or disorganized or disordered, then you're walking around with a tiger on a leash every day.
01:29:32.460So those phenomena only got worse for people with disorganized eating during the pandemic, because, again, you're at home, you are ordering food, you're anxious, you can't go to the gym.
01:29:42.880So I'm seeing an enormous influx of people who were kind of flirting with disorganized eating, who are full blown, disordered.
01:29:52.620And so, again, my job is not to shame people and say, hey, you got to go on low carb and get your act together.
01:29:58.380It's to say, look, let's think about the stress that is driving the relationship of food that, unfortunately, you have to manage.
01:30:04.860You can give up alcohol, which is very hard for some people and not necessary for everyone, of course.
01:30:10.520Thank God. I love my glass of wine, my glass of bourbon every now and then.
01:30:14.880But you can give those things up, but you cannot give up food.
01:30:20.200And ultimately, in primary care medicine, you know, food and the relationship to it and what you eat matters so much to your health.
01:30:28.740Amen. Doc, thank you so much. I hope you come back.
01:30:32.100I would love to come back. I'll come back tomorrow if you ask me.
01:30:34.860Coming up on Friday, we're going to get into these anti-Semitic attacks we've been seeing, not just in the United States, but overseas as well.
01:30:48.060What we've seen in the streets is anti-Semitism and it's been right in your face and not just in the streets.
01:30:54.060I mean, it is, forgive the term, Jew hatred.
01:30:57.600And if you spend two minutes on Twitter looking at the hate being directed at the Jewish people and the Israelis, which, as you know, are not necessarily always exactly the same group,
01:31:10.480it's stunning and it's disgusting and how it's allowed to stand in the wake of Twitter and Facebook and these other companies trying to take the moral high ground when it comes to the deplorables.
01:31:20.160Right. Where's their moral high ground now?
01:31:22.260So we're going to have one of my favorite Caliphile guests, Ambassador Ron Dermer.
01:31:27.100He's the former now ambassador to Israel, and he is a super smart guy and understands this region and our country really well.
01:31:36.180Former ambassador of Israel to the United States, I should say.
01:31:39.200And so we're going to get into what's happening in this country and where this is going.
01:32:08.840But what if you or a partner needs to step away?
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