The Megyn Kelly Show - COVID Truth, on the Wuhan Lab, Herd Immunity, Vaccines and Variants, with Josh Rogin and Dr. Marty Makary

00:00:00.000 When I found out my friend got a great deal

00:00:02.160 on a wool coat from Winners,

00:00:03.760 I started wondering,

00:00:05.440 is every fabulous item I see from Winners?

00:00:08.560 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans.

00:00:11.260 Are those from Winners?

00:00:12.780 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings.

00:00:15.260 Did she pay full price?

00:00:16.600 Or that leather tote?

00:00:17.600 Or that cashmere sweater?

00:00:18.500 Or those knee-high boots?

00:00:20.300 That dress?

00:00:21.080 That jacket?

00:00:21.740 Those shoes?

00:00:22.780 Is anyone paying full price for anything?

00:00:25.800 Stop wondering.

00:00:27.000 Start winning.

00:00:27.940 Winners.

00:00:28.520 Find fabulous for less.

00:00:30.620 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:32.540 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:41.900 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:43.680 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:44.960 Today on the program, the latest in COVID truths.

00:00:49.660 Where did it come from?

00:00:51.020 Because we've got some new information

00:00:52.420 you're going to want to hear.

00:00:53.780 And are we at herd immunity?

00:00:55.440 The doctor who predicted we would be there in April

00:00:57.980 is with us to explain just how far along we've come

00:01:02.280 and what the summer is going to look like.

00:01:04.820 And I think you're going to want to hear this.

00:01:06.440 So first up, we're going to be talking to a guy named Josh Rogan.

00:01:09.660 Not to be confused with Josh Groban.

00:01:12.300 They have very different skills.

00:01:14.420 Equally valuable.

00:01:15.700 Josh Rogan is a columnist for The Washington Post

00:01:18.180 and the author of a new book called Chaos Under Heaven.

00:01:21.640 Trump, Xi, and the Battle for the 21st Century.

00:01:25.300 And this is a very hard, fair, and balanced look

00:01:28.940 at how the COVID crisis actually began.

00:01:32.640 Where it actually came from.

00:01:35.600 Was it a lab in Wuhan?

00:01:37.940 Was it created intentionally?

00:01:40.140 Was it an accident?

00:01:41.420 Or did it come from one of the so-called wet markets

00:01:43.780 or something akin to a popsicle?

00:01:46.400 Well, he's going to get into all of that

00:01:48.140 and has a very clear conclusion on his thoughts.

00:01:52.660 And after Josh, we're going to talk to a professor

00:01:55.780 you may have seen on Fox, a doctor named Dr. Marty McCary.

00:02:00.360 And he's the guy who predicted that we would be

00:02:02.080 at herd immunity in April.

00:02:03.280 And he's got a very interesting update for us

00:02:05.040 on whether or not that's true.

00:02:06.120 He's a professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine

00:02:10.500 and Bloomberg School of Public Health.

00:02:12.400 He went to Harvard.

00:02:15.180 He's got a master's in public health degree.

00:02:18.420 He serves on the Harvard Alumni Board

00:02:20.560 surgical residency at Georgetown.

00:02:23.600 He's been a visiting professor at over 30 universities

00:02:25.960 and his credentials, I could go on and on.

00:02:28.060 He knows what he's talking about.

00:02:29.360 He was beloved by many of the mainstream media

00:02:31.460 when he was saying things like,

00:02:32.540 we got to get ahead of this.

00:02:33.300 We got to take this seriously.

00:02:34.580 Got to shut down some travel.

00:02:35.760 We're going to have to put in some restrictions.

00:02:37.180 And he was all over New York Times and elsewhere.

00:02:39.660 And then he started saying,

00:02:40.580 we're going to get herd immunity in April.

00:02:41.960 We're good.

00:02:42.520 We got to be more reasonable.

00:02:43.420 And they were like, crickets, banned,

00:02:45.820 banned for misinformation.

00:02:48.000 Anyway, he's the real deal.

00:02:49.480 And so he's going to tell us which vaccine you should get.

00:02:51.940 What does he think about the people

00:02:53.140 who won't get the vaccines?

00:02:55.020 That's actually really interesting, too.

00:02:57.200 Here's a preview.

00:02:58.280 He doesn't judge them.

00:02:59.740 He would like you to get the vaccine,

00:03:00.860 but he doesn't judge those who won't

00:03:02.480 and actually has some thoughts on how it's going to play.

00:03:04.740 Oh, and before we get to Dr. McCary,

00:03:07.380 Marty McCary,

00:03:07.840 I want to tell you that this show was taped

00:03:11.580 before we got the news

00:03:13.340 that the United States is recommending a pause

00:03:16.880 for the Johnson & Johnson shots

00:03:18.620 that happened on Tuesday,

00:03:20.060 that they've recommended a pause

00:03:21.460 in the single-dose J&J COVID vaccine,

00:03:24.020 reading now from the AP,

00:03:25.620 to investigate reports of rare

00:03:28.040 but potentially dangerous blood clots

00:03:30.480 setting off a chain reaction worldwide

00:03:32.600 and dealing a setback

00:03:33.540 to the global vaccination campaign.

00:03:35.420 The CDC announced it's investigating

00:03:37.260 unusual clots in six women

00:03:39.340 between the ages of 18 and 48 out of,

00:03:42.240 and by the way, one person died,

00:03:43.540 they said, although we don't know the details of that,

00:03:46.000 out of almost 7 million doses

00:03:48.260 that have been given in the United States.

00:03:50.420 All right, so the vast, vast majority

00:03:52.780 had zero or mild side effects,

00:03:56.200 and so they'll figure out,

00:03:57.740 and have been totally fine

00:03:58.720 for those who took them, right?

00:03:59.680 So you've got to understand the risks here

00:04:01.920 and sort of the calculation.

00:04:05.720 It's unfortunate, right,

00:04:06.800 because it's a slowdown,

00:04:07.700 and we need more people vaccinated,

00:04:09.460 not fewer,

00:04:10.540 but you can bet that some people

00:04:11.640 are going to take this

00:04:12.200 as a validation of their choice

00:04:13.940 not to get the vaccine

00:04:14.800 or not to be in the first wave

00:04:16.720 of those getting the vaccines.

00:04:19.080 And, you know, listen,

00:04:19.840 we still have Pfizer

00:04:20.660 and we have Moderna.

00:04:21.520 We're lucky here in the United States

00:04:22.740 that we have those

00:04:23.500 and that you can keep going with those,

00:04:25.280 and you're going to hear Dr. McCary

00:04:26.520 talk about how he thinks

00:04:28.160 one dose of either of those

00:04:30.140 is very, very effective.

00:04:31.880 It's not as good as two doses,

00:04:33.300 but extremely effective.

00:04:35.040 So if you really are committed

00:04:36.060 to just one dose,

00:04:36.920 you should listen to what he has to say.

00:04:38.460 Anyway, we did call him

00:04:39.660 and asked him his reaction

00:04:41.660 to that breaking news,

00:04:43.440 and what he said was that

00:04:45.080 if he were advising a woman,

00:04:47.940 he would say if you're between,

00:04:49.540 if you're of childbearing age

00:04:51.440 or if you have a history of blood clots,

00:04:53.700 you might want to hold off

00:04:54.800 the J&J vaccine.

00:04:56.360 You might want to go

00:04:56.860 for a different vaccine,

00:04:58.540 but he thinks the pause went too far, right?

00:05:00.860 Those numbers are too small

00:05:02.920 to justify stopping

00:05:04.700 the vaccination program

00:05:06.120 with Johnson & Johnson.

00:05:08.040 So anyway, that's a breaking story.

00:05:09.940 It'll continue to unfold.

00:05:11.440 No bad news, at least for now,

00:05:13.060 on Pfizer and Moderna.

00:05:14.860 And I think you're going to love

00:05:16.400 his thoughts on where we are

00:05:18.080 with herd immunity.

00:05:19.360 And here we go.

00:05:24.800 Josh, how are you?

00:05:27.760 I'm wonderful.

00:05:28.580 Thank you so much for having me on.

00:05:29.840 It's a real thrill to me.

00:05:31.440 Oh, the pleasure's all mine.

00:05:32.680 Congrats on the publication of your book.

00:05:35.200 Thank you.

00:05:35.720 Thank you.

00:05:36.080 Who knew that China would be in the news?

00:05:38.900 Who knew?

00:05:39.220 I guess I knew.

00:05:40.740 You know, can I tell you,

00:05:42.340 I probably shouldn't say

00:05:43.460 where I heard this

00:05:45.580 because I was there by invitation

00:05:47.220 and it was all off the record.

00:05:48.220 But I will tell you

00:05:48.780 that I was at a sort of muckety-muck,

00:05:50.860 who's who brain trust type gathering

00:05:55.280 in the summer of 2020.

00:05:58.740 All right.

00:05:58.880 So not even a year ago.

00:05:59.920 No, it would have been 2019.

00:06:01.520 It was right before Corona.

00:06:03.940 We hadn't yet had Corona.

00:06:05.640 And there was a debate

00:06:07.020 between the liberals

00:06:07.740 and the conservatives there

00:06:09.040 amongst the brain trust

00:06:10.520 about our relationship with China.

00:06:13.380 This is Trump was still president.

00:06:15.480 And some more right-leaning people

00:06:17.900 had sort of said,

00:06:18.540 we don't trust anything China says.

00:06:20.040 China's spying on us.

00:06:21.300 China's not exactly our friend.

00:06:23.600 They're more like a frenemy at best

00:06:24.980 and maybe a declared enemy.

00:06:27.260 And there was a Chinese scholar,

00:06:31.280 a Chinese-American scholar

00:06:32.360 who stood up liberal

00:06:33.400 and just lambasted the first speaker

00:06:36.640 saying, you know,

00:06:37.760 the United States and China

00:06:38.780 have amazing areas of cooperation

00:06:40.380 and attitudes like that

00:06:42.020 really set us back.

00:06:43.680 And they're racist, frankly,

00:06:45.800 and xenophobic and blah, blah, blah.

00:06:47.560 And it was sort of an interesting thing to see

00:06:49.720 let's say six months

00:06:51.700 before the outbreak of coronavirus

00:06:54.140 and before Trump really going after China

00:06:56.980 in so many different ways.

00:06:58.160 And I wonder, you know,

00:07:00.040 let's just start there

00:07:01.060 with the perspective you've had on this.

00:07:03.360 Sure.

00:07:03.840 And all the hiding

00:07:05.740 that the Chinese government has done

00:07:07.240 about the outbreak of this and so on.

00:07:09.620 How do you see that relationship?

00:07:11.320 What is the truth?

00:07:12.500 The bottom line here is that,

00:07:13.920 you know, ever since 2013,

00:07:16.060 Chinese President General Secretary Xi Jinping

00:07:18.860 has been taking China

00:07:20.320 in a different direction,

00:07:22.040 in a direction towards more nationalism,

00:07:24.600 more external aggression,

00:07:26.380 more internal repression,

00:07:27.880 and more interference

00:07:28.980 in free and open societies

00:07:31.060 in all sorts of ways.

00:07:32.760 And it took a while

00:07:34.240 for Washington to wake up to that fact.

00:07:36.720 And then it took even longer

00:07:38.040 for different parts

00:07:38.800 of the American society

00:07:40.700 to wake up to that fact.

00:07:41.840 Academia, Hollywood,

00:07:43.200 Silicon Valley, and Wall Street.

00:07:45.980 And because, you know,

00:07:47.160 these institutions in our country

00:07:48.700 protect their independence

00:07:49.660 from the government

00:07:50.240 fiercely and rightly,

00:07:52.180 when the national security people

00:07:53.680 came and knocking to say,

00:07:54.760 hey, we've got a problem here,

00:07:56.220 it doesn't look like

00:07:57.100 China's going to liberalize.

00:07:58.220 It doesn't look like

00:07:58.920 they're going to become

00:08:00.080 a productive, constructive member

00:08:02.680 of our global world order

00:08:04.140 that has preserved peace and security

00:08:05.740 for the last 80 years,

00:08:07.420 more or less,

00:08:08.560 you know, it didn't go well.

00:08:09.920 And the sort of clash

00:08:11.800 inside of our own system,

00:08:12.940 both political and policy-wise,

00:08:14.340 prevented us from mounting

00:08:15.360 a new strategic response.

00:08:16.780 And one of the biggest successes,

00:08:19.380 ironically,

00:08:19.800 of the Trump administration

00:08:20.540 is that Trump changed

00:08:22.220 the conversation about China

00:08:23.640 in a way that can't be undone.

00:08:25.400 And he brought to the fore

00:08:26.720 a lot of these problems

00:08:27.800 and forced a lot

00:08:28.860 of these conversations.

00:08:29.900 And it didn't always go well.

00:08:31.620 There were fights

00:08:32.420 inside the administration,

00:08:33.400 as my book details.

00:08:34.780 But the bottom line is that

00:08:36.040 he dragged America

00:08:37.380 into this conversation

00:08:38.400 of what do we do

00:08:39.120 about a rising China

00:08:40.140 that's becoming a problem

00:08:41.080 in our lives.

00:08:42.000 Forget about for a second

00:08:42.760 their lives,

00:08:43.420 in our lives.

00:08:44.400 And then when the pandemic hit,

00:08:45.660 that removed all doubt.

00:08:47.180 And suddenly every citizen

00:08:48.280 of the country

00:08:48.900 and really every citizen

00:08:49.780 of the world

00:08:50.380 knew in their hearts,

00:08:53.100 right,

00:08:53.320 in their bones,

00:08:54.440 as they're sitting

00:08:55.020 in their basements

00:08:55.740 and they can't see

00:08:56.340 their grandparents,

00:08:57.380 that we've got a problem here.

00:08:58.540 And what happens in Beijing

00:08:59.420 no longer stays in Beijing.

00:09:00.920 And that the character

00:09:02.040 and actions and strategy

00:09:03.080 of the Chinese Communist Party

00:09:04.140 affect us

00:09:04.780 in our public health,

00:09:05.640 in our lives.

00:09:06.340 And we've got to do

00:09:07.160 something about it.

00:09:07.940 Now, the problem is

00:09:08.720 that we don't really know

00:09:09.760 what we're going to do about it.

00:09:10.900 So that's the next step

00:09:11.560 is to figure out

00:09:12.120 what are we going to do about it?

00:09:14.360 It just seems like

00:09:15.260 we were willfully blind

00:09:16.740 toward what China was doing

00:09:18.020 for far too long.

00:09:19.760 And then Trump,

00:09:20.640 just because, you know,

00:09:21.340 he is who he is

00:09:22.340 and he did run

00:09:23.120 on taking on the Chinese.

00:09:24.980 It was one of the things

00:09:25.660 he said he was going to do

00:09:26.660 economically

00:09:27.860 and then it sort of morphed.

00:09:29.060 But it almost felt to me

00:09:30.460 like somebody

00:09:31.700 who wants to believe

00:09:32.860 this country is a friend,

00:09:34.580 they just want it to be so,

00:09:35.960 despite all the evidence

00:09:37.800 to the contrary

00:09:38.740 of subterfuge of spying

00:09:40.600 and now, of course,

00:09:41.740 of the human rights abuses

00:09:43.000 have been, you know,

00:09:43.980 we know more about that

00:09:44.960 than everything.

00:09:45.540 So these satellite images

00:09:46.420 we're getting

00:09:46.840 from what they're doing

00:09:47.500 to their to the Chinese Muslims,

00:09:49.040 the Uyghurs.

00:09:49.900 Anyway, the evidence

00:09:51.000 is right there now.

00:09:52.080 And it's and thanks

00:09:52.980 to all the things

00:09:53.560 you just mentioned,

00:09:54.300 it's now undeniable

00:09:55.640 that this is not a friend.

00:09:57.560 This is some this is a country

00:09:58.900 we need to be extremely

00:09:59.920 worried about

00:10:01.280 and watching

00:10:02.020 and protecting ourselves from.

00:10:04.140 Well, that's absolutely right.

00:10:04.940 And we have to make

00:10:05.540 a clear distinction here

00:10:06.500 between the Chinese Communist Party

00:10:07.860 and the Chinese people.

00:10:08.920 Right.

00:10:09.020 The Chinese people

00:10:09.720 are not our enemy.

00:10:11.060 They're in some ways

00:10:12.300 are victims

00:10:12.760 of their own government as well.

00:10:14.480 And the Chinese diaspora,

00:10:16.400 millions and millions

00:10:17.040 of people around the world

00:10:18.000 who feel an affinity

00:10:19.560 and a common shared history

00:10:21.380 and ethnicity

00:10:21.820 with their family

00:10:23.020 and friends in China.

00:10:23.940 They're not our enemies either.

00:10:25.340 They contribute greatly

00:10:26.380 to our society.

00:10:27.800 But the Chinese Communist Party

00:10:29.180 is clearly

00:10:30.420 and all you have to do

00:10:31.840 is sort of read

00:10:32.440 what they say

00:10:33.200 and read what they write

00:10:34.720 and listen to what they say

00:10:35.780 has a clear strategy.

00:10:37.540 And that strategy

00:10:38.100 is to advance

00:10:39.120 a Chinese

00:10:40.100 led global world order

00:10:42.820 that's at direct expense

00:10:44.180 of our values

00:10:45.300 and our interests

00:10:46.020 and those of our friends

00:10:46.900 and partners

00:10:47.340 and allies

00:10:47.860 in lots of other countries

00:10:49.300 around the world.

00:10:50.740 Now, you know,

00:10:51.500 you could forgive people

00:10:53.000 40 years ago

00:10:53.760 for having this idea

00:10:54.840 that, hey,

00:10:55.240 if we just, you know,

00:10:56.360 engage China

00:10:57.440 as much as possible

00:10:58.360 and give them

00:10:59.520 a bunch of money,

00:11:00.100 take a bunch of their money

00:11:01.080 and integrate them

00:11:02.580 into our systems

00:11:03.100 as much as possible

00:11:03.940 that they might

00:11:04.760 liberalize economically

00:11:06.100 as they promised.

00:11:07.780 And then that would lead

00:11:08.460 to them liberalizing politically

00:11:09.780 and that would solve

00:11:10.400 all of our problems.

00:11:11.220 But in 2021,

00:11:12.000 that doesn't make any sense.

00:11:13.580 And, you know,

00:11:14.160 the people who are still saying that

00:11:15.560 are either on one hand

00:11:16.900 people who are,

00:11:17.720 you know,

00:11:18.220 really dug into that idea

00:11:19.560 because their careers

00:11:20.340 are based on it.

00:11:21.400 We're talking about

00:11:21.800 like the China experts

00:11:22.940 in D.C.,

00:11:23.580 you know who they are

00:11:24.440 and they need the access

00:11:25.780 and they need the grants

00:11:26.880 and they can't go to China

00:11:27.820 if they don't say

00:11:28.340 the right things

00:11:28.980 and write the right things.

00:11:29.920 So they're compromised.

00:11:31.420 They're essentially corrupted.

00:11:33.000 Right.

00:11:33.120 And then you have

00:11:33.640 a huge amount

00:11:34.380 of Chinese Communist Party

00:11:35.480 propaganda

00:11:36.240 and it's in English

00:11:37.320 and it's worldwide

00:11:38.320 and it's their media

00:11:39.780 and their bots.

00:11:40.720 And then what they do

00:11:41.460 is they just throw

00:11:42.600 billions and billions,

00:11:43.620 literally billions of dollars

00:11:44.540 at our institutions

00:11:45.600 to corrupt them

00:11:46.360 from the inside.

00:11:47.240 And we're talking

00:11:47.640 about our markets

00:11:48.460 and our Silicon Valley

00:11:49.980 tech companies

00:11:50.540 and our Hollywood studios

00:11:51.840 and, yes,

00:11:52.880 our campuses.

00:11:53.840 That's the biggest one.

00:11:54.880 And our sports.

00:11:55.840 And our sports.

00:11:56.720 Absolutely.

00:11:57.480 And, you know,

00:11:57.880 when people sort of realize

00:11:59.240 what that NBA

00:12:00.320 is the perfect example here

00:12:01.540 because when people

00:12:02.240 sort of realize,

00:12:02.960 oh, wait,

00:12:03.560 the NBA,

00:12:04.260 you can't tweet something

00:12:05.220 about Hong Kong

00:12:06.000 without the NBA

00:12:06.660 being punished

00:12:07.260 for four hundred million dollars.

00:12:10.200 That's not OK.

00:12:11.220 My regular people

00:12:12.240 all over the country,

00:12:12.900 doesn't matter

00:12:13.240 if you're pro-Trump

00:12:13.960 or anti-Trump

00:12:14.620 or Democrat or Republican,

00:12:15.780 you don't like that.

00:12:16.820 And when you find out

00:12:17.700 that the clothes

00:12:19.340 that you're getting

00:12:20.020 from your Nike

00:12:20.640 or HMM shop

00:12:21.580 were made with cotton

00:12:22.980 picked by slave labor

00:12:23.980 or that the hair

00:12:24.840 that you buy

00:12:25.320 at your beauty shop

00:12:26.420 was shaven off

00:12:27.820 of the heads

00:12:28.420 of Uyghur women

00:12:29.040 in a concentration camp,

00:12:30.220 that bothers people,

00:12:31.620 Americans, everybody.

00:12:32.840 And they don't want

00:12:33.440 to put that hair

00:12:34.160 on their head

00:12:34.680 and they don't want

00:12:35.160 to put those shoes

00:12:36.280 on their feet.

00:12:36.960 And that causes us

00:12:37.820 to speak up

00:12:38.920 about these atrocities

00:12:40.080 and that causes

00:12:40.620 the Chinese Communist Party

00:12:41.600 to become defensive

00:12:42.800 and insecure

00:12:43.480 and aggressive.

00:12:44.420 And that's why

00:12:45.200 we're in the situation

00:12:45.900 we're in today.

00:12:47.220 That's what's so nuts

00:12:47.980 about just picking up

00:12:49.160 on the news cycle.

00:12:50.200 And I really want to get

00:12:51.120 to your reporting

00:12:51.720 on where the coronavirus

00:12:53.300 originated,

00:12:53.860 but that's what's so nuts

00:12:55.260 about the MLB

00:12:56.920 moving its all-star game

00:12:59.120 out of Atlanta, Georgia

00:13:00.480 because, you know,

00:13:01.440 human rights,

00:13:02.120 they don't like

00:13:02.460 the voting rights law,

00:13:03.380 but they're doing business

00:13:04.340 with China.

00:13:05.560 It's like, well...

00:13:06.600 Well, look at LeBron James, right?

00:13:08.300 And you and I

00:13:09.380 may even disagree

00:13:10.060 on whether or not

00:13:10.800 these sports leagues

00:13:12.060 should take political positions

00:13:13.160 in America,

00:13:13.540 but at least we can agree

00:13:14.440 that they should be consistent, right?

00:13:15.900 If you're going to stand up

00:13:16.880 for social justice in America,

00:13:18.500 how about standing up

00:13:19.320 against atrocities

00:13:20.260 and genocide going on in China?

00:13:22.180 And how can the NBA

00:13:23.420 have like a farm team

00:13:24.520 coming out of Xinjiang

00:13:25.400 when we know

00:13:26.000 what's going on there?

00:13:26.960 It's insane.

00:13:27.760 And how can, you know,

00:13:28.940 H&M take the cotton

00:13:31.200 that's picked by slaves

00:13:32.200 and put it into their shops,

00:13:33.600 right?

00:13:33.800 We have to have

00:13:34.480 a national conversation

00:13:35.780 devoid of politics

00:13:36.760 that realizes that

00:13:37.620 these are things

00:13:38.380 we can't tolerate

00:13:39.200 and that we have to go

00:13:39.840 to the Chinese Communist Party

00:13:41.040 as a united country,

00:13:42.620 hopefully, ideally,

00:13:43.480 if we can,

00:13:44.540 and say to them

00:13:45.100 that this will not stand.

00:13:46.640 You know, it's funny

00:13:47.240 because I've seen

00:13:48.180 some of this in Hollywood

00:13:49.120 as these Hollywood starlets

00:13:51.280 try to lecture us

00:13:52.340 on how we're supposed

00:13:52.800 to be living our life

00:13:53.640 as if they know anything

00:13:54.620 about anything

00:13:55.120 other than to memorize the script.

00:13:56.940 OK, but anyway,

00:13:58.300 they'll get up there.

00:13:59.040 But you see it turning, too.

00:13:59.900 If you see South Park, right,

00:14:01.080 they're very good on this.

00:14:02.220 And then, you know,

00:14:02.980 they identify the corruption

00:14:04.740 the way that it works

00:14:05.720 and the way that it works

00:14:06.540 is through self-censorship.

00:14:08.260 And that's why you can't

00:14:09.020 see a movie about Tibet

00:14:10.340 in the last 15 years

00:14:11.340 because these companies

00:14:12.260 need their access

00:14:13.300 to the Chinese markets.

00:14:14.400 But in the end,

00:14:15.200 I'm here to tell you

00:14:16.200 that their business

00:14:16.760 is not actually in China.

00:14:17.840 The core business

00:14:18.360 is in America.

00:14:19.040 And the more that Americans

00:14:20.240 wake up to these problems,

00:14:21.300 the more that they'll side

00:14:22.220 with with with the thing

00:14:23.580 that's right,

00:14:24.060 which is the basic dignity

00:14:25.160 of all men.

00:14:27.200 Well, I see it's even

00:14:28.180 wider than China.

00:14:29.080 You know, they'll get up there

00:14:29.740 and tell us like how

00:14:30.660 we have to support

00:14:31.600 the Me Too movement

00:14:32.760 or Time's Up or whatever.

00:14:33.940 And then you get to,

00:14:34.760 you know, one of the producers

00:14:35.880 that they like,

00:14:37.700 Harvey or Woody

00:14:38.760 and something.

00:14:39.260 It's like, oh,

00:14:39.540 it's a family matter.

00:14:40.520 Well, wait a minute.

00:14:42.040 Are you going to lecture us

00:14:43.100 and be the moral spokesperson

00:14:44.080 for the world?

00:14:44.880 Or are you like

00:14:45.380 you're going to have to do

00:14:46.000 that universally

00:14:46.660 and not just stop

00:14:48.820 when it comes to your pocketbook?

00:14:50.660 OK, so let's talk about this

00:14:51.900 because I will

00:14:52.380 I will make a confession

00:14:53.420 to you, Josh.

00:14:54.020 I've been sort of

00:14:54.860 I haven't been following

00:14:56.800 this piece of it

00:14:58.120 as closely as I should have

00:14:59.640 because I've just sort of been

00:15:01.720 trying to stay rational

00:15:03.020 about COVID

00:15:03.540 and not let every single

00:15:04.920 iteration of the COVID

00:15:05.980 reporting obsess,

00:15:07.040 you know,

00:15:07.380 take over my life, right?

00:15:08.440 Like, sure.

00:15:08.980 Try to be as normal as possible.

00:15:10.060 Try to keep this thing

00:15:10.940 at arm's length

00:15:12.120 and keep your sanity.

00:15:13.560 And P.S.

00:15:14.120 It worked.

00:15:14.780 It's actually worked brilliantly.

00:15:15.760 In my case,

00:15:16.380 in the case of my family,

00:15:17.040 we have not become

00:15:17.760 obsessed over this thing.

00:15:19.240 But knowing how it started

00:15:20.920 is important.

00:15:22.220 And I think there are still

00:15:24.140 there's sort of

00:15:24.560 three categories of people.

00:15:25.660 One one that believes

00:15:26.720 it came from an animal

00:15:28.780 in a wet market

00:15:29.420 over in China

00:15:30.480 where they serve.

00:15:31.460 You can walk through

00:15:32.620 and see live animals.

00:15:34.040 People like to eat.

00:15:35.660 Number two is

00:15:36.860 from a lab in Wuhan, China,

00:15:39.000 where people

00:15:40.500 were creating

00:15:42.000 intentionally

00:15:43.560 some sort of virus,

00:15:44.840 the coronavirus,

00:15:45.620 COVID-19,

00:15:46.220 to hurt people

00:15:46.880 potentially as a military weapon.

00:15:48.960 And number three,

00:15:50.480 it was in a Wuhan lab

00:15:53.600 being studied

00:15:54.340 and accidentally

00:15:55.140 got released, right?

00:15:56.820 Do I basically have

00:15:58.200 the three possible sources outlined?

00:16:00.120 And your belief

00:16:01.160 after all your reporting

00:16:02.260 is what?

00:16:03.220 So basically,

00:16:04.860 you know,

00:16:05.560 what I lay out in the book

00:16:06.740 is that there's

00:16:07.860 plenty of evidence

00:16:09.260 to support

00:16:09.900 the still unproven theory

00:16:12.340 that COVID-19

00:16:13.580 originated

00:16:14.220 as from an accidental leak

00:16:16.380 from one of the labs

00:16:17.920 in Wuhan

00:16:18.320 that was doing

00:16:18.880 what we call

00:16:19.300 gain-of-function research.

00:16:20.400 That's where they collect

00:16:21.100 all the bat coronaviruses

00:16:22.180 they can find,

00:16:23.240 take them a thousand miles

00:16:24.340 from where the bats live

00:16:25.300 to Wuhan,

00:16:26.540 which is a thousand miles

00:16:27.300 away from the bats,

00:16:28.000 by the way.

00:16:28.800 And then they experiment

00:16:30.200 on them

00:16:30.660 to make them more virulent,

00:16:31.900 make them more dangerous.

00:16:32.740 Why do they do that?

00:16:33.600 Well, they're trying to

00:16:34.660 predict the next pandemic, right?

00:16:36.880 And this is a program

00:16:38.100 supported by $200 million

00:16:39.540 of U.S. taxpayer-funded research,

00:16:42.980 okay?

00:16:43.220 And what it was

00:16:43.880 was hundreds of scientists,

00:16:46.800 American scientists

00:16:47.580 and Chinese scientists

00:16:48.600 going around,

00:16:49.700 scooping up

00:16:50.100 all the most dangerous viruses

00:16:51.420 that you could find

00:16:52.860 and bringing them

00:16:53.940 to this very lab

00:16:54.720 that happened to be

00:16:55.320 10 miles

00:16:55.740 when the outbreak broke out

00:16:57.040 and playing around with them

00:16:58.660 in ways that, you know,

00:16:59.680 we understand are risky

00:17:00.860 and dangerous

00:17:01.340 and have very little

00:17:02.140 to know oversight, okay?

00:17:03.980 And if you came to this,

00:17:06.400 you know, story,

00:17:07.200 if you were an alien

00:17:07.960 and you dropped down on Earth

00:17:09.020 not knowing how this issue

00:17:11.440 of the origin

00:17:12.040 had become hyper-politicized

00:17:13.980 for a couple of important reasons

00:17:15.420 I'm about to get to,

00:17:16.680 and you just looked at

00:17:17.580 that set of facts, okay?

00:17:18.800 You've got bats

00:17:19.380 a thousand miles away,

00:17:20.680 you've got the number one

00:17:21.660 bat coronavirus research lab,

00:17:23.660 which was doing research

00:17:24.880 on how to make these viruses

00:17:26.280 more infectious on humans,

00:17:28.100 and that's where

00:17:29.040 the outbreak broke out.

00:17:30.240 Well, Occam's razor

00:17:31.260 would tell you

00:17:31.880 that we should probably

00:17:32.540 check out that lab, okay?

00:17:33.720 Right, it seems so obvious

00:17:35.320 to hear you say it like that,

00:17:36.680 like, oh my God, wait a minute,

00:17:37.720 this is the number one lab

00:17:38.820 in the world researching

00:17:39.780 bat coronaviruses?

00:17:42.120 And that's where the outbreak was?

00:17:44.260 And it gets worse

00:17:45.320 because two years before

00:17:46.620 the outbreak,

00:17:47.820 a U.S. diplomat

00:17:48.480 traveled to that very lab

00:17:49.740 and took a look at it,

00:17:51.980 three trips,

00:17:52.500 and said they didn't have

00:17:53.740 enough safety procedures,

00:17:55.120 they didn't have enough staff,

00:17:56.260 and they warned about

00:17:57.220 the very studies

00:17:58.180 that they were doing

00:17:58.940 because they were publishing

00:17:59.620 some but not all of their studies

00:18:00.920 about making these viruses

00:18:02.980 more susceptible

00:18:04.180 to infect humans

00:18:05.500 in a very specific way,

00:18:06.800 that is an S-protein

00:18:08.040 with an ACE2 inceptor.

00:18:09.420 What they would do

00:18:10.000 is they would take these mice

00:18:11.400 and they would give them

00:18:11.940 like human-like lungs,

00:18:13.200 and then they'd run

00:18:13.800 the virus through them

00:18:14.520 a few hundred times

00:18:15.300 and see what happens, okay?

00:18:16.800 Now, the virus that caused

00:18:19.420 the pandemic

00:18:19.980 infects the ACE2 inceptor

00:18:22.560 with the S-protein.

00:18:23.400 It's the exact same thing

00:18:25.140 that the diplomats warned about

00:18:26.560 in these cables that I wrote.

00:18:28.120 But, okay, so now I'm going to tell you

00:18:29.160 how the story got all screwed up,

00:18:30.800 and this is also in the book.

00:18:32.840 Basically, what happened is that,

00:18:34.320 you know, when the virus broke out,

00:18:36.860 it became a battle in the media

00:18:38.940 between, on the one hand,

00:18:40.420 Trump and Pompeo,

00:18:41.640 who, you know, as you know,

00:18:43.000 most of the media

00:18:44.260 didn't like and wanted

00:18:45.500 to discredit,

00:18:46.340 or, you know,

00:18:46.980 there were some reasons

00:18:48.020 that they had lost credibility,

00:18:49.320 to be honest.

00:18:50.580 And then you had these scientists,

00:18:52.300 and these scientists were

00:18:53.360 the friends of the Wuhan lab,

00:18:55.160 and they were led by

00:18:55.980 this guy named Peter Daszak,

00:18:57.620 who works at the EcoHealth Alliance.

00:18:58.940 But basically,

00:18:59.780 there's a whole group of them

00:19:00.740 whose life work

00:19:01.880 was invested in this.

00:19:02.940 This is what they had spent

00:19:03.980 their last 20 years doing.

00:19:05.500 They had raised

00:19:05.920 $200 million doing it.

00:19:07.220 If the lab were found

00:19:08.260 to be guilty,

00:19:09.760 their careers and legacies

00:19:10.900 would be ruined forever.

00:19:12.400 And they know this,

00:19:13.340 so they immediately tell everybody

00:19:14.640 there's no way

00:19:15.240 it could be from the lab.

00:19:16.460 And we know this

00:19:17.160 because we know everything

00:19:18.020 that happened in the lab,

00:19:19.100 which, by the way,

00:19:19.820 is not true.

00:19:20.560 And we talked to the lab people,

00:19:22.080 our best friend,

00:19:23.100 the Batwoman,

00:19:23.640 Dr. Shenzhen Li,

00:19:24.600 and she said we didn't do it.

00:19:25.960 Case closed.

00:19:26.760 It must be the market, okay?

00:19:28.400 And because of the,

00:19:29.300 if you just remember,

00:19:30.260 you know,

00:19:30.660 we were all going through

00:19:31.320 this crazy time

00:19:32.160 in April, May 2020,

00:19:34.020 you know,

00:19:35.240 it was very disruptive

00:19:36.340 and very dystopian.

00:19:37.840 I remember it.

00:19:38.500 And it was hard to know

00:19:39.340 really what was going on.

00:19:40.840 And there was a campaign going on.

00:19:42.620 People were getting sick.

00:19:43.520 Everyone said,

00:19:43.980 don't worry about the origins.

00:19:45.360 By the way,

00:19:45.960 the reason we need to know

00:19:46.820 about the origins

00:19:47.540 is not because

00:19:48.320 we're trying to blame China

00:19:50.280 because you can blame them

00:19:51.540 for a number of things.

00:19:52.720 Either way,

00:19:53.180 that's what people don't get.

00:19:54.060 It's like,

00:19:54.460 there's plenty of blame on China

00:19:55.760 without the origin thing

00:19:57.380 even being involved.

00:19:58.500 We need to know

00:19:58.960 because we need to know

00:19:59.740 how to prevent the next pandemic.

00:20:01.640 Because if we don't know

00:20:02.400 how it started,

00:20:02.940 then we can't prevent the next.

00:20:03.840 Which is pretty important.

00:20:05.180 So listen to this.

00:20:06.660 So these scientists,

00:20:08.100 again,

00:20:08.400 Peter Daszak,

00:20:08.940 EcoHealth Alliance,

00:20:10.040 they go everywhere.

00:20:12.100 60 minutes,

00:20:12.740 you name it.

00:20:14.260 There's no way

00:20:14.880 the lab could be involved.

00:20:16.040 Okay.

00:20:16.300 And then Trump and Pompeo

00:20:17.420 were like,

00:20:18.180 well,

00:20:18.380 we're pretty sure

00:20:18.860 it was the lab,

00:20:20.120 which may have been

00:20:20.980 going beyond the evidence,

00:20:22.100 but, you know,

00:20:22.620 that's kind of their style.

00:20:23.780 Right.

00:20:24.220 So the media,

00:20:25.380 most of us,

00:20:26.120 most of the media

00:20:26.640 were like,

00:20:27.000 oh yeah,

00:20:27.360 I'm going to believe

00:20:27.860 the scientists

00:20:28.340 over Trump and Pompeo.

00:20:29.860 And they wrote that that way

00:20:31.600 and they called Tom Cotton

00:20:32.520 a conspiracy theorist.

00:20:33.700 And then,

00:20:34.140 you know,

00:20:34.840 that was it.

00:20:35.480 And now we're here

00:20:36.160 a year later

00:20:36.800 and there's a ton

00:20:37.380 more information

00:20:38.120 and there's a ton

00:20:38.800 more we know about it.

00:20:40.040 And there's,

00:20:40.500 you know,

00:20:40.760 there's a lot more evidence

00:20:41.780 now pointing to the lab.

00:20:42.860 I'm not saying

00:20:43.260 we know the lab did it.

00:20:44.420 We don't know.

00:20:44.940 I'm just saying

00:20:45.340 we should investigate it.

00:20:47.200 And all of a sudden,

00:20:48.580 these journalists can't,

00:20:49.660 they can't think again.

00:20:50.960 They can't,

00:20:51.660 you know,

00:20:52.240 resist the,

00:20:53.700 they have,

00:20:54.300 they must resist the idea

00:20:55.200 that they might have been wrong

00:20:56.800 a year ago,

00:20:57.620 you know,

00:20:57.880 which I say,

00:20:58.940 if I'm wrong

00:20:59.540 and then tell me I'm wrong

00:21:00.660 and I'll change my mind.

00:21:01.720 If I get new information,

00:21:03.020 I think new things.

00:21:04.040 That's just how I think

00:21:05.160 the honest journalism should work.

00:21:06.700 But for a lot of people,

00:21:07.880 it's just like,

00:21:08.760 no,

00:21:09.120 Pompeo is not credible.

00:21:12.120 The scientists said this.

00:21:13.660 And then we get to the WHO report,

00:21:15.300 which I know you want to talk about,

00:21:16.400 but I'll just,

00:21:16.920 I'll intro it here by saying this.

00:21:18.660 The guy that the WHO

00:21:20.060 gets to do the investigation

00:21:21.660 is Peter Daszak,

00:21:23.080 who has a clear conflict of interest

00:21:25.140 as I've ever seen

00:21:25.860 in my entire life.

00:21:26.680 They rejected the people

00:21:27.700 that the U.S. government

00:21:28.400 wanted them to put on the,

00:21:30.340 then they had an investigation

00:21:32.380 that was,

00:21:33.160 you know,

00:21:33.840 determined,

00:21:34.400 the scope was determined

00:21:35.160 by the Chinese government.

00:21:36.400 The investigation was overseen

00:21:38.340 by the Chinese government.

00:21:39.220 Tony Blinken said the report

00:21:40.240 was written by the Chinese government.

00:21:41.940 And then you have

00:21:42.700 the same scientists

00:21:43.660 who've been denying this

00:21:44.860 the whole time,

00:21:45.460 who have the clear conflict

00:21:46.220 of interest say,

00:21:47.580 oh no,

00:21:48.280 it couldn't have been the lab.

00:21:49.020 We don't need to investigate the lab.

00:21:50.240 Forget about the lab.

00:21:51.020 We went to the lab for three hours.

00:21:52.020 It's ridiculous.

00:21:52.800 This is Peter Daszak.

00:21:54.300 We have the soundbite.

00:21:55.640 This is just from March 28th.

00:21:57.860 So it's very recent.

00:21:59.040 It really is crazy.

00:21:59.720 It's like,

00:22:00.120 so the Chinese got to pick

00:22:01.680 who was going to write the report,

00:22:03.820 who was going to come over.

00:22:05.540 They chaperoned

00:22:06.700 their chosen investigators

00:22:08.220 the entire time they were there.

00:22:09.800 Never let them alone.

00:22:10.660 It wasn't an independent thing.

00:22:12.620 And not surprisingly,

00:22:14.020 okay, yeah,

00:22:14.380 then maybe they actually wrote it.

00:22:15.580 Maybe they,

00:22:15.980 yeah.

00:22:16.420 And then not surprisingly,

00:22:17.640 the lab theory was dismissed.

00:22:19.560 And in a report

00:22:20.780 that's 123 pages,

00:22:21.880 they spent two lines

00:22:23.760 saying,

00:22:24.840 oh, it wasn't the lab.

00:22:25.780 Like they didn't look into it at all.

00:22:26.780 It's a total whitewash

00:22:28.340 and a service to CCP propaganda

00:22:30.760 unlike I've ever seen.

00:22:31.940 China Communist Party.

00:22:32.960 Okay, so here's that guy

00:22:34.100 you've been referring to,

00:22:34.860 Peter Daszak,

00:22:35.420 who was one of the,

00:22:36.540 quote, investigators

00:22:37.220 that's supposed to get

00:22:37.860 to the bottom of all this.

00:22:38.900 For all of us,

00:22:39.440 2.7 million people dead.

00:22:40.980 He's over there

00:22:41.500 trying to figure out

00:22:42.040 how it got started

00:22:42.660 on our behalf

00:22:43.820 and the world's behalf.

00:22:45.420 And here he is

00:22:45.980 talking to Leslie Stahl on 60.

00:22:47.580 Something like 75%

00:22:49.260 of emerging diseases

00:22:50.380 come from animals

00:22:51.840 into people.

00:22:52.560 We've seen it before.

00:22:53.880 We've seen it in China

00:22:54.860 with SARS.

00:22:55.960 Is the lab leak theory

00:22:58.680 any more or less speculative

00:23:01.240 than your pathway?

00:23:03.640 For an accidental leak

00:23:05.120 that then led to COVID

00:23:07.520 to happen,

00:23:08.820 the virus that causes COVID

00:23:10.480 would need to be in the lab.

00:23:12.080 They never had any evidence

00:23:13.920 of a virus like COVID

00:23:15.800 in the lab.

00:23:16.900 They never had the COVID-19 virus

00:23:20.020 not prior to the outbreak,

00:23:21.620 no.

00:23:22.380 Absolutely.

00:23:23.200 No evidence of that.

00:23:24.260 Were there Chinese government

00:23:26.680 minders in the room

00:23:28.960 every time you were

00:23:30.140 asking questions?

00:23:31.180 There were Ministry

00:23:31.940 of Foreign Affairs staff

00:23:33.280 in the room

00:23:34.160 throughout our stay.

00:23:35.920 Absolutely.

00:23:36.740 They were there

00:23:37.240 to make sure everything

00:23:38.120 went smoothly

00:23:38.780 from the China side.

00:23:39.700 Or to make sure

00:23:40.300 they weren't telling you

00:23:41.400 the whole truth

00:23:42.420 and nothing but the truth.

00:23:43.360 You sit in a room

00:23:44.260 with people who are scientists

00:23:45.440 and you know

00:23:46.520 what a scientific statement is

00:23:48.940 and you know

00:23:49.440 what a political statement is.

00:23:51.120 We had no problem

00:23:52.480 distinguishing between the two.

00:23:54.580 Oh my God.

00:23:55.860 Okay, so there's a lot of things

00:23:57.040 to unpack there.

00:23:58.300 Let me just go through

00:23:58.980 the top ones, okay?

00:24:00.340 So, and you didn't even play

00:24:01.560 the part where she asked him

00:24:03.000 to her credit,

00:24:03.940 don't you have a clear

00:24:04.840 conflict of interest?

00:24:05.900 And his answer was something like,

00:24:07.060 well, don't you want the people

00:24:07.860 who know the lab best

00:24:09.080 to investigate the lab?

00:24:10.300 Which is like absurd

00:24:11.040 when you think about it.

00:24:11.960 It's like having Robert Kardashian

00:24:13.700 investigate OJ.

00:24:14.900 It's like, what?

00:24:15.500 He's like, I know OJ,

00:24:16.520 I'll do the investigation.

00:24:17.620 You know what I mean?

00:24:18.560 It's crazy.

00:24:20.300 But anyway, the other things

00:24:21.760 that he said that were wrong

00:24:22.560 is like, they didn't have it

00:24:23.980 in the lab.

00:24:24.720 They didn't have it in the lab.

00:24:25.640 Well, they wouldn't be able

00:24:27.360 to admit it

00:24:28.160 or they would get killed, right?

00:24:30.060 This is the thing

00:24:31.280 about the Chinese system

00:24:32.780 that people need to understand

00:24:34.520 is that those scientists

00:24:35.360 may be very nice people.

00:24:36.700 They may be trying

00:24:37.280 to solve the pandemic.

00:24:38.700 They may be mortified

00:24:39.860 that they might have

00:24:40.620 actually sparked the pandemic

00:24:41.960 while trying to solve

00:24:43.140 the pandemic,

00:24:43.560 but they don't get

00:24:44.360 to make these decisions.

00:24:45.120 They've got a general

00:24:46.860 sitting up behind their shoulder

00:24:48.300 who's got a party guy

00:24:49.120 sitting behind his shoulder

00:24:49.860 who's got Xi Jinping

00:24:51.080 sitting behind his shoulder.

00:24:52.460 OK, and if they had

00:24:53.580 a smoking gun,

00:24:54.320 they would destroy it

00:24:55.440 and bury it

00:24:56.120 and we would never find it,

00:24:57.160 which is a separate problem.

00:24:58.880 And the whole idea

00:25:00.100 that we shouldn't investigate

00:25:01.440 the lab, by the way,

00:25:02.260 was refuted during the

00:25:04.280 that's that exact day

00:25:05.760 by Peter Daszak's boss,

00:25:07.940 Dr. Tedros,

00:25:08.660 the head of the WHO,

00:25:09.940 who I don't think anyone

00:25:10.980 would call like an anti-China

00:25:12.640 pro-Trump conspiracy theorist.

00:25:14.580 Quite the contrary, right?

00:25:15.520 This is the head of the WHO

00:25:16.640 who said, you know what?

00:25:18.220 They didn't really investigate

00:25:19.220 the lab.

00:25:19.600 We're going to have

00:25:19.960 to investigate the lab.

00:25:21.000 And you have to think to yourself,

00:25:22.000 why would Dr. Tedros say that?

00:25:23.820 Why would he take a big,

00:25:25.560 you know, crap on his own report

00:25:28.580 as they're releasing the report?

00:25:30.420 It's unprecedented.

00:25:31.620 And the only reason

00:25:32.660 that makes sense

00:25:33.300 is because he's trying

00:25:34.200 to salvage the credibility

00:25:35.280 of this organization

00:25:36.320 that Peter Daszak

00:25:37.140 is trampling on.

00:25:38.580 OK, and he knows

00:25:39.800 that the United States

00:25:40.620 is about to release

00:25:41.280 this statement saying

00:25:41.980 this is not going to end

00:25:42.800 all of the investigation.

00:25:44.440 We don't think

00:25:44.860 it was a real investigation,

00:25:45.720 which is exactly what

00:25:46.800 Blinken, to his credit, said.

00:25:48.420 He said, well,

00:25:49.160 because if you think about it,

00:25:50.160 the Biden administration,

00:25:51.460 they're not they

00:25:52.780 they weren't there, right?

00:25:53.960 They're not married

00:25:54.900 to this one theory

00:25:55.720 or another theory.

00:25:56.460 They don't care

00:25:56.960 which way it turns out.

00:25:57.800 They're not like, you know,

00:25:58.940 unlike a lot of the

00:26:00.100 like 60 Minutes,

00:26:01.580 they don't they don't

00:26:02.340 they didn't get it wrong

00:26:03.380 the first time, right?

00:26:04.400 And, you know,

00:26:05.140 the media is now trying

00:26:06.520 to like tiptoe

00:26:08.100 into this idea of,

00:26:09.020 oh, well, maybe

00:26:09.500 it could be the oh, no.

00:26:10.760 Oh, how dare you say?

00:26:11.940 Oh, that's racist.

00:26:13.040 And then here comes

00:26:13.860 Robert Redfield, right,

00:26:15.440 who is the head of the CDC

00:26:16.920 at the time of the outbreak.

00:26:18.980 Now, not a perfect person,

00:26:20.600 not didn't go through

00:26:21.920 the pandemic making

00:26:22.820 zero mistakes.

00:26:23.400 I'm not here to say

00:26:23.960 he's a saint, but

00:26:24.900 he's a virologist.

00:26:26.120 He's seen the intelligence

00:26:27.340 and he says on CNN,

00:26:28.500 he says, yeah,

00:26:29.180 I'm pretty sure it was

00:26:29.820 the lab.

00:26:30.260 It was this gain of function

00:26:31.120 research.

00:26:31.540 He's saying that based

00:26:32.420 on how the virus acted.

00:26:34.180 That's evidence.

00:26:34.980 He's saying that I saw

00:26:36.700 how the virus acted.

00:26:37.600 I saw the intelligence.

00:26:38.440 By the way,

00:26:38.780 the intelligence is also

00:26:39.820 evidence.

00:26:40.900 The Trump administration

00:26:41.500 put out a lot of facts

00:26:42.800 about secret work

00:26:44.040 at the lab.

00:26:44.600 In other words,

00:26:45.300 the Trump administration

00:26:46.180 confirmed by the Biden

00:26:47.380 administration

00:26:47.860 called Peter Daszak alive.

00:26:49.920 OK, they can't both

00:26:50.640 be telling the truth.

00:26:52.000 Now, Peter Daszak

00:26:52.620 is calling the Biden

00:26:53.780 administration a liar.

00:26:55.420 They're all liars,

00:26:55.980 according to Peter.

00:26:56.840 Peter's like,

00:26:57.280 everybody's a liar

00:26:57.960 except for me.

00:26:58.560 Oh, and by the way,

00:26:59.280 the Chinese people

00:27:00.200 who are my chaperones,

00:27:01.580 they were just there

00:27:02.260 to make things go smoothly,

00:27:03.580 go smoothly.

00:27:04.100 And we all know

00:27:04.680 what that means.

00:27:05.500 Come out the way

00:27:06.080 we wanted to.

00:27:07.360 Right.

00:27:07.540 So that's why,

00:27:08.120 you know,

00:27:08.460 it's actually in a way

00:27:09.920 good that you weren't

00:27:10.740 following this at the time

00:27:11.660 because you had an open mind

00:27:12.720 when this all happened

00:27:13.540 a month ago.

00:27:14.660 And common sense

00:27:15.400 and Occam's razor

00:27:16.040 point you towards,

00:27:17.180 oh, we should probably

00:27:17.640 take a look at the lab.

00:27:18.620 And again,

00:27:19.380 I create a fourth category

00:27:20.580 of people.

00:27:21.100 These are people

00:27:21.520 who just want to figure it out.

00:27:23.060 You don't believe

00:27:23.780 that any that's me.

00:27:25.440 OK, I'm that category.

00:27:26.440 I don't care how it started.

00:27:28.200 I but I do care

00:27:29.060 that we figure it out

00:27:29.900 because you know

00:27:30.760 what the plan is

00:27:31.520 to respond to this virus.

00:27:33.100 This is going to

00:27:33.680 blow your mind.

00:27:35.040 The plan is to take

00:27:35.960 that research,

00:27:36.680 that Peter Daszak research

00:27:37.520 and spend one point

00:27:38.800 two billion dollars

00:27:39.600 expanding it sixfold.

00:27:41.420 OK, what?

00:27:42.620 The global viral project.

00:27:44.180 That is the response.

00:27:45.240 That is the plan response.

00:27:46.400 Two hundred million dollars.

00:27:47.300 Which failed to

00:27:48.180 under the predict program

00:27:49.660 or it's called predict

00:27:50.440 which failed to predict

00:27:51.780 much less preempt

00:27:52.680 the pandemic.

00:27:53.700 They're now going to

00:27:55.060 times it by six

00:27:56.240 and throw one point

00:27:57.120 two billion dollars into it.

00:27:58.420 And I swear to God,

00:28:00.180 dig up five hundred

00:28:01.000 thousand new viruses

00:28:02.280 that are transmissible

00:28:03.240 to humans in the wild

00:28:04.380 and take them to labs

00:28:05.500 and play around.

00:28:06.300 And that's the plan.

00:28:07.720 That is the plan.

00:28:08.800 Whose plan?

00:28:09.440 The world's plan.

00:28:10.420 Global viral project

00:28:11.300 is an international project

00:28:12.420 heavily supported by

00:28:13.560 guess you guessed it

00:28:14.860 Peter Daszak

00:28:15.480 and Anthony Fauci

00:28:16.180 and all the rest of them.

00:28:16.960 All the people

00:28:17.460 who have made their careers

00:28:18.520 in virology

00:28:19.640 based on this idea

00:28:20.520 that the best way

00:28:21.520 to stop pandemics

00:28:22.320 is to dig up

00:28:23.320 a bunch of viruses

00:28:23.960 in the wild.

00:28:25.180 But you know what?

00:28:25.760 Maybe maybe that's

00:28:26.720 not the best way.

00:28:27.480 Maybe we should spend

00:28:28.140 that money on monitoring

00:28:29.120 and surveillance

00:28:29.760 that when outbreaks happen

00:28:30.740 we can squash them easily

00:28:32.000 and on placing

00:28:33.560 you know medical resources

00:28:35.140 and things in the places

00:28:36.420 where the bats are

00:28:37.240 rather than dragging

00:28:38.100 the viruses to a lab

00:28:39.440 and then there's an outbreak

00:28:40.660 next to the lab

00:28:41.200 and everyone's like

00:28:41.680 oh it must be in the market

00:28:42.860 or something like that.

00:28:44.000 By the way.

00:28:44.420 That's what so

00:28:44.920 so wait I want to

00:28:45.600 there's a lot to unpack

00:28:46.480 and what you just said too

00:28:47.360 so by the way

00:28:47.860 so you said earlier

00:28:49.080 that we put American money

00:28:50.140 into this lab in China

00:28:51.180 from which we believe

00:28:52.080 all right so

00:28:52.800 how much American money

00:28:54.240 is going into this

00:28:55.020 fake solution

00:28:55.860 which is actually

00:28:56.940 probably another cause

00:28:58.720 of yet another pandemic

00:28:59.980 to come.

00:29:00.920 Hundreds of millions

00:29:01.680 of taxpayer dollars

00:29:03.000 to expand the program

00:29:05.560 that again we don't know

00:29:06.560 but may have caused

00:29:07.400 the current pandemic

00:29:08.200 as opposed to where

00:29:09.140 you could spend that money.

00:29:11.200 And just to back up

00:29:12.100 so let's just back up

00:29:12.780 we make it super simple

00:29:13.680 for people to understand

00:29:14.360 what we're being told

00:29:15.660 by people like Daszak

00:29:16.640 the World Health Organization

00:29:17.600 is now that after all

00:29:18.620 the study and thought

00:29:20.060 and you know investigation

00:29:21.160 quote unquote in China

00:29:22.320 we think we think

00:29:23.720 the virus came from

00:29:24.680 bats in a cave

00:29:25.720 was a thousand miles

00:29:26.840 from the lab

00:29:27.400 is that what you said?

00:29:28.560 That's right.

00:29:29.520 Okay.

00:29:30.360 Researchers you know

00:29:31.440 that yes they were in Wuhan

00:29:32.460 researching bat coronaviruses

00:29:34.580 they were doing that

00:29:35.300 but a thousand miles away

00:29:36.460 what we had was bats

00:29:37.400 in a cave

00:29:38.080 and we think maybe

00:29:39.600 the bats

00:29:40.300 somehow infected

00:29:41.580 it's called a pangolin

00:29:43.240 it looks like a ferret

00:29:44.160 right

00:29:44.660 or a rabbit

00:29:45.480 that wound up

00:29:46.860 in a Wuhan wet market

00:29:49.060 right

00:29:49.740 it's just like

00:29:50.200 for those of us

00:29:50.680 who don't totally understand

00:29:51.460 what exactly is a wet market

00:29:53.400 my understanding

00:29:54.140 is live animals

00:29:55.120 that people want to eat

00:29:55.960 but do they eat them

00:29:56.840 like how do

00:29:57.880 I don't care

00:29:58.480 you know

00:29:59.440 again I think

00:30:00.680 this is like a trope

00:30:01.480 because you know

00:30:02.080 I've been to China

00:30:03.140 I've been to a lot of these

00:30:04.060 Southeast Asian countries

00:30:05.080 they're markets

00:30:05.600 they got all

00:30:06.060 you know you go to the market

00:30:07.020 you can buy anything you want

00:30:08.120 you can buy some fish

00:30:08.780 you can buy some meat

00:30:09.420 some of the animals

00:30:10.220 are alive when they're in the market

00:30:11.480 they're not alive

00:30:12.100 when they sell them to you

00:30:12.980 these are how markets work

00:30:14.260 okay

00:30:14.560 and so this whole

00:30:16.180 and again

00:30:16.880 if you think about it

00:30:17.900 it's kind of crazy

00:30:18.400 because people are like

00:30:19.140 oh well

00:30:19.620 unfortunately people have

00:30:21.240 associated this lab accident theory

00:30:22.720 with like a rise in

00:30:23.820 Asian American hate

00:30:24.980 but if you think about it

00:30:26.120 isn't it more racist

00:30:27.660 to say that like

00:30:28.540 oh Chinese people

00:30:29.720 eat weird stuff

00:30:30.480 and that caused the virus

00:30:31.500 especially if it's not true

00:30:32.900 when

00:30:33.500 okay but it is weird

00:30:34.360 to eat bats

00:30:35.060 and that is

00:30:35.680 but there's no evidence

00:30:36.660 there's no bats in the market

00:30:37.880 that's what I'm saying

00:30:38.500 that's why they had to come up with

00:30:39.480 I know but it's on YouTube

00:30:40.520 so that's got to be true

00:30:42.240 but it didn't cause

00:30:43.480 maybe it didn't cause the pandemic

00:30:44.780 so maybe we shouldn't

00:30:45.640 you know what I mean

00:30:46.220 well it doesn't look like it does

00:30:48.100 that's what you're saying

00:30:48.820 so okay

00:30:49.140 so just to keep going down

00:30:50.340 our line of thought

00:30:51.020 so

00:30:51.300 so there are

00:30:52.280 their claims that

00:30:54.000 that the bat in the cave

00:30:55.760 bit some ferret

00:30:56.980 right

00:30:57.220 pangolin

00:30:57.760 whatever

00:30:58.200 rabbit

00:30:58.680 winds up

00:30:59.620 in a Chinese

00:31:00.800 in a Wuhan

00:31:01.840 wet market

00:31:02.980 then that's how it transmits

00:31:04.160 to a human

00:31:05.060 and the evidence

00:31:06.560 on

00:31:06.940 I'm gonna say

00:31:08.400 your side

00:31:08.900 but I realize

00:31:09.300 you're just saying

00:31:09.760 this is

00:31:10.140 this is what you think

00:31:10.920 is the most logical conclusion

00:31:12.000 is no

00:31:13.140 the woman

00:31:14.180 they call

00:31:14.700 the bat woman

00:31:15.620 who is the Chinese

00:31:16.980 virologist

00:31:17.980 or researcher

00:31:18.620 in the

00:31:19.360 in the Wuhan lab

00:31:21.220 which is

00:31:22.240 level 4 lab

00:31:23.560 it's

00:31:24.020 it's the largest collection

00:31:25.620 of bat viruses

00:31:26.360 in the world

00:31:27.000 being held there

00:31:27.680 she's looking at it

00:31:29.000 and trying to figure out

00:31:29.860 ways to make it more dangerous

00:31:31.340 so

00:31:32.060 and ultimately

00:31:32.720 try to protect us

00:31:33.560 against it

00:31:34.020 but

00:31:34.220 the

00:31:34.820 and by the way

00:31:36.240 the same place

00:31:36.720 where our government

00:31:37.320 had determined

00:31:38.180 that it was

00:31:39.440 that there were laxities

00:31:40.960 at the lab

00:31:41.520 that it wasn't

00:31:42.200 as well protected

00:31:43.000 as it needed to be

00:31:43.880 and the same place

00:31:45.000 at which

00:31:45.520 our intel sources

00:31:46.880 are saying

00:31:47.480 the coronavirus

00:31:49.540 was coming out of there

00:31:51.060 or people had

00:31:51.600 coronavirus like

00:31:52.580 symptoms

00:31:53.220 as early as

00:31:54.120 fall of 19

00:31:55.300 fall of 19

00:31:56.420 your theory is

00:31:58.620 no that's where

00:31:59.420 it came from

00:31:59.900 those people

00:32:00.460 went and got the bat

00:32:01.380 they brought the bat

00:32:02.380 the bat to the lab

00:32:03.320 yeah

00:32:03.940 to be clear

00:32:04.460 I'm not saying

00:32:04.920 that's where it came from

00:32:05.520 I'm saying

00:32:05.840 that's a lot of

00:32:06.600 circumstantial evidence

00:32:07.640 okay

00:32:08.080 and that's why

00:32:09.000 people like Dasik

00:32:09.840 who say there's no evidence

00:32:11.100 are lying

00:32:11.580 because that's

00:32:12.480 what you just laid out

00:32:13.620 that is

00:32:14.080 that's

00:32:14.560 in a court

00:32:14.960 I'm not a lawyer

00:32:15.700 in a court

00:32:16.320 that's circumstantial

00:32:17.340 evidence

00:32:17.640 okay

00:32:17.980 and that's enough

00:32:18.900 to look into

00:32:19.500 I'm saying we need

00:32:20.320 to investigate the lab

00:32:21.280 full stop

00:32:21.860 okay

00:32:22.200 and you know

00:32:23.480 if Peter Dasik

00:32:24.980 and his friends

00:32:25.400 want to go for

00:32:26.040 look at like

00:32:27.180 you know

00:32:27.480 pangolins

00:32:28.180 and palm civets

00:32:29.400 and raccoon dogs

00:32:30.260 all over China

00:32:31.260 for the next 10 years

00:32:32.420 I say let them

00:32:33.120 I say go for it

00:32:34.420 and if they find

00:32:35.600 the palm civet

00:32:36.420 or pangolin

00:32:37.020 in some part

00:32:38.200 of Southeast Asia

00:32:38.980 that caused

00:32:39.480 the coronavirus

00:32:39.900 I'll eat my hat

00:32:41.200 I will be

00:32:42.020 I will lead the parade

00:32:43.880 to celebrate the fact

00:32:45.220 that you know

00:32:46.120 he was right

00:32:46.880 but here's the thing

00:32:48.000 we also have to

00:32:48.760 investigate the lab

00:32:49.560 so anyone who tells you

00:32:50.560 we don't have to

00:32:51.540 investigate the lab

00:32:52.180 that's the tell

00:32:52.840 that's how you know

00:32:53.500 they're putting their

00:32:54.060 finger on the scale

00:32:54.720 I'm not trying to put

00:32:55.560 my finger on the scale

00:32:56.220 I'm trying to say

00:32:56.680 let's investigate it all

00:32:57.720 and here's the craziest one

00:32:59.100 is the one you didn't

00:33:00.040 even mention

00:33:00.420 which we call

00:33:00.820 the popsicle theory

00:33:01.780 right

00:33:02.320 and this is the

00:33:02.920 Chinese Communist Party's

00:33:03.960 like latest crazy idea

00:33:06.100 which is that

00:33:06.560 it came on a frozen

00:33:07.400 food package

00:33:08.200 to Wuhan

00:33:08.720 from like another country

00:33:10.060 in other words

00:33:10.740 in other words

00:33:11.600 yeah so

00:33:12.540 they want to go through

00:33:13.660 like and by the way

00:33:14.620 now a year into this

00:33:15.720 we know about how

00:33:16.720 the virus actually

00:33:17.420 lives on surfaces

00:33:18.280 it's not exactly

00:33:19.000 what we originally thought

00:33:20.200 but anyway

00:33:20.720 they're pushing this

00:33:21.360 in their propaganda

00:33:21.960 so they want to go

00:33:23.300 to every factory

00:33:24.620 that sent frozen fish sticks

00:33:27.180 to Wuhan that year

00:33:28.860 whether it's in Italy

00:33:30.080 or Kabul

00:33:31.880 or East Bejip

00:33:33.220 and check for viruses there

00:33:35.540 and that's how they want

00:33:36.520 to spend the investigation

00:33:37.380 because that'll never

00:33:38.340 get back to the lab

00:33:39.180 that's at the site

00:33:39.700 of the outbreak

00:33:40.220 that had all the

00:33:40.720 back coronaviruses

00:33:41.580 and this is

00:33:42.660 so ridiculous

00:33:43.540 that it's almost

00:33:44.220 you know in a way

00:33:45.240 it's too big to

00:33:46.160 for a lot of people

00:33:47.480 to sort of change

00:33:48.500 their mind on

00:33:49.200 because let's just

00:33:50.480 I mean this is what

00:33:51.240 I wrote about

00:33:51.640 in the post last week

00:33:52.420 let's just say

00:33:53.080 for a second

00:33:53.880 and again I'm

00:33:54.560 I don't know

00:33:55.140 you don't know

00:33:55.780 you know

00:33:56.480 DASIC doesn't know

00:33:57.520 but let's just say

00:33:58.100 it was the lab right

00:33:59.080 that means all

00:34:00.320 of that research

00:34:01.020 all of that gain

00:34:01.720 of function research

00:34:02.500 that's going on

00:34:03.340 in America

00:34:03.860 in North Carolina

00:34:04.840 in Texas

00:34:05.520 you name it

00:34:06.320 we have to look

00:34:07.000 at all of it

00:34:07.640 okay

00:34:07.940 because all of it

00:34:09.000 even if it didn't

00:34:10.200 cause the pandemic

00:34:10.880 could cause the pandemic

00:34:12.440 and we have to

00:34:13.460 you know

00:34:13.960 we have to figure it out

00:34:14.940 and we can't leave that

00:34:15.820 to the scientists

00:34:16.380 because they're clearly

00:34:17.060 conflicted

00:34:18.160 what do we think

00:34:18.840 that I mean

00:34:19.920 under this theory

00:34:20.480 an accident happened

00:34:21.700 because well I see the video

00:34:22.880 or the pictures

00:34:23.800 that have been allowed

00:34:24.740 to be released

00:34:25.440 and they're dressed

00:34:26.700 you know

00:34:27.140 like they're

00:34:27.660 like they're at Chernobyl

00:34:28.600 I mean they really are

00:34:29.460 like covered head to toe

00:34:30.400 so and that doesn't mean

00:34:31.740 it's foolproof

00:34:32.360 as we know

00:34:33.040 but

00:34:33.340 the theory is

00:34:34.980 that there was

00:34:35.740 somebody slipped

00:34:37.320 and somebody

00:34:38.280 got exposed

00:34:39.880 and somebody

00:34:40.660 walked home

00:34:41.340 as patient zero

00:34:42.420 with the virus

00:34:43.680 and that's

00:34:44.200 that's what happened

00:34:44.980 or you know

00:34:46.020 or the animals

00:34:46.900 went out in the garbage

00:34:47.580 in the back door

00:34:48.300 and infected somebody

00:34:49.220 or some other

00:34:50.060 these kinds of things

00:34:51.080 as Robert Redfield

00:34:51.980 said on TV

00:34:52.660 happen all the time

00:34:53.880 now Peter Dazs can say

00:34:55.140 75%

00:34:55.780 it doesn't matter

00:34:56.300 it's not a statistic

00:34:57.000 this is one event

00:34:58.180 right

00:34:58.600 this happened

00:35:00.020 100% of this event

00:35:01.160 happened for one reason

00:35:02.200 and that's all that matters

00:35:03.700 so yes it's true

00:35:04.900 that there are

00:35:05.780 there are viruses

00:35:06.360 that have spilled over

00:35:07.260 like SARS

00:35:07.800 right

00:35:08.200 the original SARS

00:35:08.860 that spilled over

00:35:09.680 in the wild

00:35:10.300 but you know

00:35:11.080 it spilled over

00:35:11.640 where the bats were

00:35:12.680 you know

00:35:13.260 like not a thousand miles away

00:35:14.820 you would think

00:35:15.680 that if it traveled

00:35:16.340 a thousand miles

00:35:17.080 on a on the back

00:35:18.000 of a palm civet

00:35:18.800 or a pangolin

00:35:19.340 that over the course

00:35:20.420 of that thousand miles

00:35:21.140 you would see like

00:35:21.680 little outbreaks

00:35:22.300 but you never saw that

00:35:23.220 right

00:35:23.520 and somehow

00:35:24.260 it got all the way

00:35:24.980 to a thousand miles

00:35:25.600 as if carried

00:35:26.520 by a lab worker

00:35:27.440 you know what I mean

00:35:28.200 anyway

00:35:29.020 the popsicle theory

00:35:30.800 is

00:35:31.000 do we know

00:35:32.360 who patient zero

00:35:33.140 is by the way

00:35:33.760 no no no

00:35:34.920 we have no idea

00:35:35.840 but we do know

00:35:37.040 that patient zero

00:35:37.600 didn't come from the market

00:35:38.500 and we know that

00:35:39.380 because the Chinese scientists

00:35:40.440 put that out

00:35:41.060 before they got the clamp down

00:35:42.360 and so that means

00:35:43.800 the market can't be

00:35:44.740 the outbreak

00:35:45.200 in other words

00:35:45.740 what a lot of people

00:35:46.660 don't even realize

00:35:47.360 is that in May 2020

00:35:48.600 the Chinese government

00:35:49.400 disavowed the market theory

00:35:50.820 they said it didn't come

00:35:51.680 from the market

00:35:52.200 that's the Chinese CDC

00:35:53.760 and everyone was just like

00:35:55.540 because they didn't want

00:35:57.120 to change their thinking

00:35:58.040 they didn't want to

00:35:58.600 people don't want to

00:35:59.380 admit that like

00:36:00.120 oh wait

00:36:01.000 can you hold two ideas

00:36:02.380 in your head

00:36:02.800 I don't like Trump

00:36:03.720 but he might have

00:36:04.740 accidentally

00:36:05.340 through no fault of his own

00:36:07.000 been right on this one thing

00:36:08.340 and

00:36:09.240 well wait a minute

00:36:09.820 wait a minute

00:36:10.140 so if they changed

00:36:11.340 their theory

00:36:11.800 where were they

00:36:12.280 where did they change it to

00:36:13.400 so we don't know

00:36:14.720 we have no idea

00:36:15.460 but we know it was in the market

00:36:17.560 but we know it was in the lab

00:36:19.560 and we know it was in the market

00:36:20.760 and that's why this popsicle theory

00:36:22.220 came up

00:36:22.720 and you know

00:36:23.280 Peter's eyes like

00:36:23.940 oh I guess we got to check

00:36:24.840 all the frozen food packages

00:36:25.880 coming from Norway now

00:36:27.100 you know what

00:36:27.880 what's that going to cost

00:36:28.980 how many

00:36:29.360 you know that's another year

00:36:30.520 of the investigation

00:36:31.240 and just think of the

00:36:32.400 just think of the

00:36:33.360 the time

00:36:34.240 they wasted

00:36:35.040 okay

00:36:35.320 we're a year later

00:36:36.360 okay

00:36:36.840 three million people dead

00:36:38.960 you know

00:36:39.580 God knows how many millions

00:36:40.740 of people sick

00:36:41.440 billions of people suffering

00:36:42.720 right

00:36:42.960 even if you never got coronavirus

00:36:44.180 and you're in some third world country

00:36:45.940 and your economy

00:36:46.540 is devastated

00:36:47.560 and you can't get the vaccine

00:36:48.640 and you

00:36:49.460 you know

00:36:49.880 your family is screwed

00:36:51.800 and there's some

00:36:53.000 you know

00:36:53.360 there's a reason for that

00:36:54.560 and those people deserve

00:36:55.600 to have an answer

00:36:56.420 and they spent a year

00:36:57.700 on this whitewash

00:36:58.780 and came up with a report

00:37:00.420 that even the WHO director

00:37:01.800 had to distance himself

00:37:02.920 from immediately

00:37:03.960 and we're back to zero

00:37:06.120 and all that does

00:37:07.400 is give the Chinese government

00:37:08.320 more time to obfuscate

00:37:09.600 and hide

00:37:09.960 and come up with

00:37:10.540 crackpot theories

00:37:11.340 and push propaganda

00:37:12.280 which is what they want

00:37:13.480 okay

00:37:14.360 but that's one thing

00:37:15.020 that's that's the Chinese government

00:37:16.240 which we we know

00:37:17.200 at least now

00:37:17.780 I think we know

00:37:18.360 to be suspicious of

00:37:19.520 but you've got some

00:37:21.200 kind of shocking

00:37:22.660 I don't know if I can be shocked

00:37:23.840 anymore by the media

00:37:24.700 but media complicity

00:37:26.640 here in the United States

00:37:28.440 I know you

00:37:29.080 yeah

00:37:29.580 you took issue

00:37:30.260 can you explain it

00:37:30.880 with the New York Times

00:37:31.700 reporting on this

00:37:32.560 saying their reporting

00:37:34.080 was one of the

00:37:34.700 was the worst case

00:37:35.920 of confirmation bias

00:37:36.900 you had ever seen

00:37:37.860 what did they say

00:37:38.960 that got you upset

00:37:40.120 yeah

00:37:40.960 you know

00:37:41.320 and I'm not a media critic

00:37:42.360 I don't profess to be one

00:37:43.480 but like this was so egregious

00:37:44.820 that I felt the need

00:37:45.600 to comment on it

00:37:46.420 and you know

00:37:46.980 when Robert Redfield

00:37:47.700 came out and said

00:37:48.360 hey listen

00:37:48.740 I think it was the lab

00:37:49.580 it was that

00:37:50.060 he was stating his opinion

00:37:51.200 for a good reason

00:37:51.960 he can't declassify

00:37:53.340 classified intelligence

00:37:54.780 as a former official

00:37:55.620 he's not allowed to do that

00:37:56.420 he would be breaking the law

00:37:57.580 but everyone knows

00:37:58.800 right

00:37:59.000 that he's seen everything

00:38:00.520 and he's not

00:38:01.400 and he's a virologist

00:38:02.520 and he was there

00:38:03.240 so his opinion

00:38:04.280 is not just some

00:38:04.940 Joe Schmo off the street

00:38:06.020 hey I think the lab did it

00:38:07.220 he's trying to say

00:38:08.400 that he believes this

00:38:09.500 for a reason

00:38:10.040 it's important

00:38:10.620 he's taking a risk

00:38:11.460 and the New York Times

00:38:12.480 headline was like

00:38:13.120 Redfield pushes

00:38:14.220 debunked theory

00:38:15.100 and I was like

00:38:16.160 wait a second

00:38:16.780 who debunked it

00:38:17.840 when was it debunked

00:38:18.820 did I miss that

00:38:19.660 because I just wrote

00:38:20.160 a book about it

00:38:20.700 I never saw anybody

00:38:21.380 debunk it

00:38:22.000 and then they changed

00:38:23.260 the headline to

00:38:23.920 Robert Fitt

00:38:24.720 I'm paraphrasing

00:38:25.600 he pushes speculation

00:38:26.680 with no evidence

00:38:27.700 I'm like okay

00:38:28.800 well why are they

00:38:29.960 bending over backwards

00:38:31.080 to crap on his comments

00:38:33.080 as he's making them

00:38:34.140 why can't they just

00:38:35.060 I mean

00:38:35.400 I'm an opinion columnist

00:38:37.620 that's why I can say

00:38:38.340 all this stuff

00:38:38.880 because I'm allowed

00:38:39.580 to tell you

00:38:40.000 what I really think

00:38:40.840 which is like

00:38:41.380 by the way

00:38:42.020 I think the more

00:38:42.580 honest form of

00:38:43.440 journalism at this point

00:38:44.660 right

00:38:44.860 but you know

00:38:46.220 so I have the freedom

00:38:48.020 but if you're going

00:38:49.120 to profess to be objective

00:38:50.300 if that's your job

00:38:51.200 and I did that job

00:38:51.920 for 15 years

00:38:52.560 before I became

00:38:53.200 an opinion columnist

00:38:53.980 you can't put your finger

00:38:55.800 on the scale that blatantly

00:38:56.880 especially in the paper record

00:38:57.940 you expect nobody

00:38:58.520 to notice

00:38:59.020 that nobody's

00:38:59.560 to say anything

00:39:00.220 and you know

00:39:01.580 again

00:39:01.920 I don't think

00:39:02.760 that they're complicit

00:39:04.480 I don't think

00:39:04.940 that they're complicit

00:39:05.800 with this

00:39:06.100 that they're pro-CCP

00:39:07.160 I don't think

00:39:07.480 that's what's going on

00:39:08.160 I just don't believe that

00:39:09.540 I just think that

00:39:10.180 they had this idea

00:39:11.920 in their head

00:39:12.520 Trump bad

00:39:13.540 Trump wrong

00:39:14.440 scientists good

00:39:15.260 and then a year later

00:39:16.360 when new information

00:39:17.000 comes out

00:39:17.400 they can't change it

00:39:18.280 they can't admit

00:39:19.440 that maybe the thing

00:39:20.520 that they wrote

00:39:21.040 a year ago

00:39:21.600 it might be informed

00:39:23.500 by some new information

00:39:24.520 you know

00:39:25.020 we have to be able

00:39:26.160 to sort of

00:39:26.880 step away

00:39:27.740 from our political

00:39:28.380 affiliations

00:39:29.180 accept the new information

00:39:30.720 when it comes in

00:39:31.280 evaluate it on its face

00:39:32.480 and have an honest

00:39:33.580 discussion about

00:39:34.440 how we got into

00:39:35.140 this mess that way

00:39:35.940 and not for the sake

00:39:36.840 of our politics

00:39:37.480 for the sake of our

00:39:38.160 public health

00:39:38.780 right

00:39:39.440 and that's

00:39:39.960 that's the problem

00:39:41.200 here is that

00:39:41.820 when you have

00:39:42.400 the majority

00:39:42.960 of scientists

00:39:43.740 who are experts

00:39:44.800 on this

00:39:45.260 who are telling you

00:39:46.380 the thing

00:39:46.940 that is actually

00:39:47.700 pointing away

00:39:48.800 from a real investigation

00:39:51.000 well that's a tough

00:39:52.160 problem for the media

00:39:52.840 to wrap their head around

00:39:54.740 I get that

00:39:55.540 oh we

00:39:56.480 no we would love

00:39:57.180 an investigation

00:39:57.740 just not of what

00:39:58.680 they're about to investigate

00:39:59.620 and we can't have

00:40:00.740 Robert Kardashian

00:40:01.620 investigate OJ

00:40:02.580 it's not going to work

00:40:03.320 okay

00:40:03.920 we can't do it

00:40:04.820 we have to find

00:40:05.620 somebody who OJ

00:40:06.500 wasn't best friends

00:40:07.440 with

00:40:07.700 no Kato Kaelin

00:40:08.700 nobody

00:40:09.260 so speaking of

00:40:11.140 Robert Kardashian

00:40:11.780 let's talk about

00:40:12.580 Fauci

00:40:13.100 here we go

00:40:14.860 I'm just making up

00:40:16.240 that transition

00:40:16.920 what do you make of him

00:40:18.980 because you mention him

00:40:20.340 in your list of names

00:40:21.400 that are you know

00:40:22.140 a little too connected

00:40:23.100 to

00:40:23.960 I mean is it

00:40:25.820 is it the WHO

00:40:27.120 or is it China

00:40:28.400 or what is he too

00:40:29.320 connected to

00:40:29.920 for us to

00:40:30.520 put our full trust

00:40:31.740 in him

00:40:32.100 so what you have to

00:40:33.580 understand is that

00:40:34.280 this body of research

00:40:35.780 this gain of function

00:40:36.600 research

00:40:37.060 the whole world

00:40:38.740 of virologists

00:40:39.540 and I came to learn

00:40:40.760 a lot about how

00:40:41.420 this operates

00:40:41.940 over the last year

00:40:42.660 and a half

00:40:42.960 of writing this book

00:40:43.860 you know

00:40:45.000 it's very insular

00:40:46.020 okay

00:40:46.360 and I often talk

00:40:47.540 to scientists

00:40:48.020 who say the same thing

00:40:48.840 they say listen

00:40:49.320 we really want to

00:40:49.980 speak out about this

00:40:50.600 but we can't do it

00:40:51.400 why can't we do it

00:40:52.260 well we get all

00:40:53.000 of our funding

00:40:53.400 from NIH

00:40:54.080 or NIAD

00:40:54.900 which is the

00:40:55.640 National Association

00:40:56.700 for Infectious Diseases

00:40:57.760 which is run by

00:40:58.800 Fauci

00:40:59.520 for years

00:41:00.100 and years

00:41:00.420 and years

00:41:00.860 and so we can't

00:41:02.500 say anything like

00:41:03.500 oh gain of function

00:41:04.200 research might be

00:41:04.840 dangerous

00:41:05.180 or it might have

00:41:05.640 come from the lab

00:41:06.280 because we're

00:41:07.400 we're going to

00:41:07.960 lose our careers

00:41:09.080 we're going to

00:41:09.600 lose our funding

00:41:10.380 we're not going

00:41:10.820 to be able

00:41:11.020 to do the work

00:41:11.680 so there's this

00:41:12.460 you know

00:41:13.000 people like to say

00:41:13.700 oh the scientists

00:41:14.360 all think this

00:41:15.060 but there's a whole

00:41:15.940 bunch of science

00:41:16.440 more and more

00:41:16.960 are coming out

00:41:17.500 actually

00:41:17.820 and you see them

00:41:18.400 every day

00:41:19.320 and Redfield's

00:41:20.500 sort of signal

00:41:21.860 was like

00:41:22.260 this is okay to do

00:41:23.240 you can say this

00:41:24.060 you know

00:41:24.680 but still they get

00:41:25.840 attacked for being

00:41:26.560 racist or whatever

00:41:27.360 they might lose

00:41:27.940 their funding

00:41:28.360 and the head of

00:41:29.480 that pyramid

00:41:30.080 the head of the

00:41:30.880 funding

00:41:31.180 the head of the

00:41:31.780 entire field

00:41:33.100 really is Anthony Fauci

00:41:34.380 he's the godfather

00:41:35.400 of gain of function

00:41:36.200 research as we know it

00:41:37.360 now that again

00:41:38.640 just what I said there

00:41:39.740 is like too hot

00:41:41.080 for you know

00:41:42.200 TV because

00:41:43.200 people don't want

00:41:44.380 to think about

00:41:45.160 the fact that

00:41:45.980 our hero of the

00:41:47.180 pandemic

00:41:47.640 Dr. Fauci

00:41:48.360 might also have

00:41:50.020 been connected

00:41:51.100 to this research

00:41:51.740 which might also

00:41:52.400 have been connected

00:41:52.980 to the outbreaks

00:41:53.640 again I'm not

00:41:54.480 alleging he did

00:41:55.300 anything wrong

00:41:56.040 this was totally

00:41:56.900 legal right

00:41:57.980 he was issuing

00:41:59.500 government grants

00:42:00.320 you know through

00:42:01.040 the regular process

00:42:02.180 the problem is not

00:42:03.400 that they were

00:42:04.320 doing something

00:42:04.940 wrong or illegal

00:42:05.700 the problem is

00:42:06.320 that nobody knows

00:42:07.040 what this legal

00:42:08.320 stuff was going

00:42:09.200 on and now

00:42:10.540 all of a sudden

00:42:11.200 we have to take

00:42:11.940 a look at it

00:42:12.600 so can you

00:42:13.680 again keep in your

00:42:14.820 mind two things

00:42:15.460 that Dr. Fauci

00:42:16.260 the hero of the

00:42:17.040 pandemic might also

00:42:18.400 have had a role

00:42:19.420 in the research

00:42:20.540 that may have

00:42:21.100 caused the pandemic

00:42:21.780 that's a big

00:42:22.620 you know

00:42:23.640 kerplock

00:42:24.880 that's a what

00:42:25.460 we call a like

00:42:26.280 a like a big

00:42:27.380 matzo ball

00:42:27.880 to think about

00:42:28.580 you know people

00:42:29.260 can't get it

00:42:29.820 through their heads

00:42:30.420 but that's the

00:42:31.380 reality

00:42:31.860 kerplock

00:42:32.820 I said that

00:42:33.280 wrong

00:42:33.460 my grandmother

00:42:34.960 is staring down

00:42:36.960 at me

00:42:37.240 disapprovingly

00:42:38.520 but the point

00:42:40.260 is that

00:42:41.740 you know

00:42:42.280 we we're not

00:42:43.640 we don't have

00:42:44.220 a media environment

00:42:44.880 where we can have

00:42:45.520 that kind of

00:42:45.980 discussion

00:42:46.380 where we can

00:42:46.880 say okay

00:42:47.660 listen you know

00:42:48.600 scientists are

00:42:49.180 good people

00:42:49.780 they were trying

00:42:50.480 to prevent

00:42:50.820 the pandemic

00:42:51.360 maybe their

00:42:52.660 research got

00:42:53.600 out of hand

00:42:54.020 maybe in this

00:42:54.700 Chinese lab

00:42:55.320 we there was

00:42:56.240 a bunch of

00:42:56.600 other stuff

00:42:57.040 going on

00:42:57.620 as the

00:42:58.220 Biden

00:42:58.400 administration

00:42:59.000 and the

00:42:59.220 Trump

00:42:59.380 administration

00:42:59.800 said

00:43:00.120 and maybe

00:43:00.540 we got to

00:43:00.900 get to the

00:43:01.260 bottom of it

00:43:01.700 is that too

00:43:02.200 much to ask

00:43:02.780 that we ask

00:43:03.460 can I tell you

00:43:03.940 something

00:43:04.200 so this is

00:43:05.280 really reminding

00:43:05.840 me it was

00:43:06.620 I actually

00:43:07.340 just looked it

00:43:07.800 up

00:43:07.980 the date

00:43:08.700 was March

00:43:09.060 11th

00:43:10.220 2020

00:43:10.640 and Trump

00:43:11.900 had just

00:43:12.280 given a press

00:43:12.840 conference in

00:43:13.440 which he said

00:43:14.080 a bunch of

00:43:14.440 things that

00:43:14.800 turned out to be

00:43:15.300 wrong and he

00:43:15.700 had to dial

00:43:16.060 them back

00:43:16.460 like said

00:43:16.900 he banned

00:43:17.380 travel from

00:43:17.920 Europe

00:43:18.200 and then

00:43:19.020 later that night

00:43:20.360 the White House

00:43:20.720 was like no

00:43:21.040 we didn't

00:43:21.400 no we didn't

00:43:22.060 and I tweeted

00:43:23.920 out

00:43:24.260 it's 11.03pm

00:43:26.220 on March 11th

00:43:27.080 2020

00:43:27.400 I'm so frustrated

00:43:28.820 right now

00:43:29.420 that we can't

00:43:30.500 trust the media

00:43:31.220 to tell us the

00:43:31.980 truth without

00:43:32.740 inflaming it

00:43:33.460 to hurt Trump

00:43:34.100 that Trump

00:43:35.020 has misled

00:43:35.580 so many times

00:43:36.400 we no longer

00:43:37.020 know when to

00:43:37.580 trust his word

00:43:38.300 that even I

00:43:39.440 as a journalist

00:43:40.040 am not sure

00:43:40.700 where to turn

00:43:41.300 for real info

00:43:42.000 on COVID

00:43:42.480 and the

00:43:44.360 sort of the

00:43:45.140 blue check

00:43:46.160 Twitter journalists

00:43:47.160 were like oh

00:43:47.680 for shame

00:43:48.480 Megan

00:43:48.840 for shame

00:43:49.540 you need to be

00:43:50.600 more responsible

00:43:51.300 than that

00:43:51.860 you know

00:43:52.120 you with your

00:43:53.140 power

00:43:53.560 you know

00:43:53.840 you have to

00:43:54.020 be careful

00:43:54.360 with your

00:43:54.680 words

00:43:54.860 and I

00:43:55.200 stood by

00:43:55.760 everything I

00:43:56.380 said

00:43:56.580 I stand

00:43:57.460 by it

00:43:57.840 still

00:43:58.220 and I'll

00:43:59.020 just give

00:43:59.280 you one

00:43:59.520 example

00:43:59.740 I have to

00:44:00.400 preface this

00:44:01.160 with I

00:44:01.540 really like

00:44:02.020 Ann Curry

00:44:02.440 she's one

00:44:02.860 of the few

00:44:03.340 people I

00:44:04.240 really liked

00:44:04.840 who's a

00:44:05.360 former

00:44:05.620 NBCer

00:44:06.200 but she

00:44:07.220 did

00:44:07.560 this is what

00:44:08.160 she tweeted

00:44:08.520 to me

00:44:08.740 got all sorts

00:44:09.280 of likes

00:44:09.580 it got written

00:44:10.060 up a bunch

00:44:10.480 of times

00:44:10.860 it's like

00:44:11.140 she put me

00:44:11.820 in my

00:44:12.000 place

00:44:12.320 hello Megan

00:44:13.440 suggest

00:44:14.320 going to

00:44:15.240 the source

00:44:15.840 at

00:44:16.880 WHO

00:44:17.560 at CDC

00:44:19.180 hashtag

00:44:20.300 Dr.

00:44:21.160 Fauci

00:44:21.860 we've all

00:44:22.720 got work

00:44:23.200 to we've

00:44:23.760 all got

00:44:24.060 to work

00:44:24.340 together

00:44:24.840 share

00:44:25.180 verifiable

00:44:26.360 information

00:44:26.840 and help

00:44:27.260 each other

00:44:27.660 politics

00:44:28.500 and misinformation

00:44:29.140 need to

00:44:29.760 take a

00:44:30.060 backseat

00:44:30.560 I mean

00:44:31.660 look how

00:44:33.000 poorly

00:44:33.620 that response

00:44:34.980 has aged

00:44:35.780 yeah

00:44:36.540 I went

00:44:37.620 to all

00:44:38.020 those people

00:44:38.600 and all

00:44:39.620 of them

00:44:40.160 have misled

00:44:40.860 me about

00:44:41.640 the value

00:44:42.160 of masks

00:44:42.960 and whether

00:44:43.720 I need

00:44:44.120 to wear

00:44:44.520 them

00:44:44.840 about the

00:44:45.460 origins

00:44:45.860 of the

00:44:46.740 virus

00:44:48.560 to begin

00:44:49.120 with

00:44:49.400 of when

00:44:50.480 we're

00:44:50.620 going to

00:44:50.780 achieve

00:44:51.080 herd

00:44:51.360 immunity

00:44:51.720 it can

00:44:52.100 let our

00:44:52.480 guard

00:44:52.660 down

00:44:52.800 I

00:44:52.960 could

00:44:53.100 go

00:44:53.260 on

00:44:53.540 right

00:44:53.800 it's

00:44:54.560 so

00:44:54.780 aggravating

00:44:55.640 how we

00:44:56.280 were

00:44:56.480 misled

00:44:56.940 how there

00:44:57.240 wasn't

00:44:57.620 anybody

00:44:57.900 to trust

00:44:58.460 and now

00:44:58.920 the truth

00:45:00.080 is coming

00:45:00.560 out

00:45:00.880 Josh

00:45:01.260 the truth

00:45:01.800 is coming

00:45:02.200 out

00:45:02.480 about

00:45:02.800 how everyone

00:45:03.740 here has

00:45:04.200 an agenda

00:45:04.680 yes

00:45:05.680 it always

00:45:06.200 does

00:45:06.420 and here's

00:45:06.760 the message

00:45:07.320 I want

00:45:07.640 to leave

00:45:08.360 your listeners

00:45:09.120 with

00:45:09.640 I'm not

00:45:10.540 a pro

00:45:10.840 Trump

00:45:11.020 guy

00:45:11.220 I'm not

00:45:11.540 an anti

00:45:12.020 Trump

00:45:12.360 guy

00:45:12.680 if you

00:45:13.360 read my

00:45:13.640 book

00:45:13.860 chaos

00:45:14.100 under

00:45:14.300 heaven

00:45:14.500 you'll

00:45:14.700 see

00:45:14.820 there's

00:45:15.060 stuff

00:45:15.260 about

00:45:15.480 Trump

00:45:15.700 that

00:45:15.940 is

00:45:16.380 not

00:45:16.540 favorable

00:45:16.860 to him

00:45:17.220 and if

00:45:17.560 you love

00:45:18.460 Trump

00:45:18.720 then you're

00:45:19.040 going to

00:45:19.160 have to

00:45:19.380 reckon

00:45:19.640 with that

00:45:20.180 but the

00:45:21.040 bottom line

00:45:21.540 is that

00:45:21.820 the origin

00:45:22.260 of the

00:45:22.480 coronavirus

00:45:22.820 is not

00:45:23.360 a political

00:45:23.820 question

00:45:24.320 it's a

00:45:24.860 forensic

00:45:25.480 question

00:45:26.020 it's a

00:45:26.340 public

00:45:26.560 health

00:45:26.880 question

00:45:27.360 and here's

00:45:28.660 the good

00:45:28.960 news

00:45:29.200 we don't

00:45:29.700 have to

00:45:30.020 argue

00:45:30.240 about

00:45:30.460 Trump

00:45:30.680 anymore

00:45:30.960 because

00:45:31.160 he's

00:45:31.280 not

00:45:31.440 president

00:45:31.860 anymore

00:45:32.240 so now

00:45:32.580 we can

00:45:32.840 just

00:45:33.020 sort of

00:45:33.380 take

00:45:33.900 another

00:45:34.220 look

00:45:34.560 and think

00:45:35.000 again

00:45:35.420 and have

00:45:36.400 a reason

00:45:36.940 discussion

00:45:37.380 yes

00:45:37.840 as it

00:45:38.380 turns out

00:45:38.760 scientists

00:45:39.160 can be

00:45:39.580 biased

00:45:39.920 and even

00:45:40.320 corrupted

00:45:40.760 and as

00:45:41.400 it turns

00:45:41.720 out

00:45:41.880 multilateral

00:45:42.420 organizations

00:45:43.000 like the

00:45:43.420 WHO

00:45:43.780 aren't

00:45:44.440 functioning

00:45:44.820 well

00:45:45.160 and doesn't

00:45:45.580 mean we

00:45:45.880 should

00:45:46.060 scrap

00:45:46.400 them

00:45:46.600 but it

00:45:46.940 does

00:45:47.220 mean

00:45:47.400 that we

00:45:47.660 have to

00:45:47.900 be

00:45:48.140 clear-eyed

00:45:48.940 about

00:45:49.180 their

00:45:49.400 flaws

00:45:49.880 and as

00:45:50.240 it turns

00:45:50.620 out

00:45:50.880 the Chinese

00:45:51.560 Communist

00:45:51.900 Party

00:45:52.300 has

00:45:52.760 campaigned

00:45:53.340 for a

00:45:53.860 year

00:45:54.220 to stop

00:45:54.860 us

00:45:55.060 from looking

00:45:55.420 into this

00:45:55.820 lab

00:45:56.040 for a

00:45:56.540 reason

00:45:56.900 and that

00:45:57.460 the only

00:45:57.920 way

00:45:58.240 we'll

00:45:58.460 ever

00:45:58.720 have

00:45:58.980 any

00:45:59.280 confidence

00:45:59.700 that we

00:46:00.060 gave it

00:46:00.640 the best

00:46:00.920 try we

00:46:01.260 had to

00:46:01.600 figure out

00:46:01.940 this

00:46:02.100 pandemic

00:46:02.540 is to

00:46:03.620 actually

00:46:04.020 look into

00:46:04.500 this

00:46:04.740 theory

00:46:10.760 Republicans

00:46:12.560 and Democrats

00:46:13.360 and leftists

00:46:13.920 and rightists

00:46:14.360 and the

00:46:14.820 media

00:46:15.140 should all

00:46:17.140 sort of

00:46:17.560 take a step

00:46:18.440 back from

00:46:18.840 whatever it

00:46:19.320 was that

00:46:19.720 they were

00:46:20.220 arguing about

00:46:20.880 in April

00:46:21.240 2020

00:46:21.720 and say

00:46:22.380 in April

00:46:22.680 2021

00:46:23.220 let's just

00:46:24.300 look at

00:46:24.600 all the

00:46:24.880 theories

00:46:25.260 let's

00:46:25.760 figure this

00:46:26.220 out

00:46:26.460 this is

00:46:27.020 a chance

00:46:27.480 for all

00:46:27.880 of us

00:46:28.120 to come

00:46:28.380 together

00:46:28.620 and realize

00:46:29.360 that yes

00:46:29.840 there is

00:46:30.240 a truth

00:46:30.740 out there

00:46:31.280 and we

00:46:31.780 don't have

00:46:32.220 to live

00:46:32.540 in two

00:46:32.820 separate

00:46:33.120 realities

00:46:33.620 and when

00:46:34.240 it comes

00:46:34.520 to this

00:46:34.860 thing

00:46:35.220 that affects

00:46:35.740 us all

00:46:36.180 it's too

00:46:36.560 important

00:46:36.900 to get

00:46:37.200 caught up

00:46:37.580 in our

00:46:37.920 partisan

00:46:38.680 BS

00:46:39.180 let me

00:46:40.320 ask you

00:46:40.640 one other

00:46:40.920 thing

00:46:41.200 because the

00:46:44.660 book does

00:46:45.040 get into

00:46:45.360 one other

00:46:45.740 then

00:46:46.380 controversial

00:46:46.880 thing

00:46:47.240 and it

00:46:47.440 actually

00:46:47.680 came up

00:46:48.020 in the

00:46:48.180 presidential

00:46:48.560 debates

00:46:48.980 and so

00:46:49.300 on

00:46:49.600 and it

00:46:50.060 was

00:46:50.200 Trump's

00:46:50.540 order

00:46:50.700 to shut

00:46:51.100 down

00:46:51.480 travel

00:46:52.140 from

00:46:52.380 China

00:46:52.800 and you've

00:46:54.000 got a

00:46:55.040 very compelling

00:46:55.940 section

00:46:56.380 on how

00:46:57.000 that happened

00:46:57.720 and I have

00:46:58.160 to say

00:46:58.440 because Trump's

00:46:58.860 taken a lot

00:46:59.380 of barbs

00:46:59.900 a lot

00:47:00.280 of arrows

00:47:01.060 this was

00:47:02.220 a good

00:47:02.900 moment for

00:47:03.380 him

00:47:03.560 this was

00:47:04.060 where his

00:47:04.580 unwillingness

00:47:05.780 to just

00:47:06.900 go along

00:47:07.280 with the

00:47:07.540 crowd

00:47:07.860 actually did

00:47:08.840 come back

00:47:09.280 to help

00:47:09.640 us

00:47:10.320 right

00:47:10.780 what I

00:47:11.480 lay out

00:47:11.760 in the

00:47:11.960 book is

00:47:12.280 that the

00:47:12.580 national

00:47:12.820 security

00:47:13.180 officials

00:47:13.620 led by

00:47:14.100 Matt Pottinger

00:47:15.060 and Robert

00:47:15.460 O'Brien

00:47:15.880 and eventually

00:47:16.740 the health

00:47:17.120 officials

00:47:17.500 that came

00:47:18.120 around to

00:47:18.440 it later

00:47:18.840 urged Trump

00:47:19.660 to shut

00:47:20.020 down travel

00:47:20.480 from China

00:47:20.980 in late

00:47:21.320 January

00:47:21.820 and they

00:47:23.200 were fighting

00:47:24.060 against Mick

00:47:24.640 Mulvaney

00:47:25.040 and Steve

00:47:25.460 Mnuchin

00:47:25.840 and the

00:47:26.580 political

00:47:26.840 people around

00:47:27.400 Trump

00:47:27.660 who thought

00:47:28.180 that it

00:47:28.660 would tank

00:47:28.980 the economy

00:47:29.460 and tank

00:47:29.860 the election

00:47:30.360 and of course

00:47:31.860 the national

00:47:32.660 security

00:47:33.000 and health

00:47:33.280 officials

00:47:33.580 were right

00:47:34.160 but by

00:47:34.780 the time

00:47:35.220 Trump

00:47:35.560 did it

00:47:36.460 he was

00:47:36.900 very concerned

00:47:37.760 about his

00:47:38.120 election

00:47:38.460 and then

00:47:38.920 he talked

00:47:39.420 to a guy

00:47:40.100 named

00:47:40.320 Xi Jinping

00:47:40.860 and Xi Jinping

00:47:41.880 plied Trump

00:47:43.220 with lots

00:47:43.760 of lies

00:47:44.200 about the

00:47:44.560 coronavirus

00:47:45.060 the Chinese

00:47:46.000 president

00:47:46.400 in two

00:47:46.780 calls

00:47:47.240 as detailed

00:47:48.360 in my book

00:47:48.880 told the

00:47:49.560 president

00:47:49.820 the coronavirus

00:47:50.340 would go away

00:47:50.840 in warm weather

00:47:51.440 that herbal

00:47:52.140 medicine

00:47:52.480 could treat

00:47:53.020 it

00:47:53.280 that they

00:47:54.060 had it

00:47:54.340 under

00:47:54.500 control

00:47:54.860 and all

00:47:55.240 of these

00:47:55.580 lies

00:47:56.020 caused

00:47:56.640 Trump

00:47:56.940 to

00:47:57.220 factor

00:47:59.400 in

00:47:59.840 misinformation

00:48:01.180 some would

00:48:01.700 say

00:48:01.820 disinformation

00:48:02.320 that led

00:48:02.800 to bad

00:48:03.260 policy

00:48:03.680 responses

00:48:04.140 after the

00:48:04.740 fact

00:48:05.020 so he

00:48:05.520 did the

00:48:05.900 good thing

00:48:06.240 by shutting

00:48:06.620 down

00:48:06.840 travel

00:48:07.060 from China

00:48:07.500 but that

00:48:08.140 wasn't

00:48:08.680 sufficient

00:48:09.140 and in

00:48:09.740 the weeks

00:48:10.020 that followed

00:48:10.500 he continued

00:48:11.060 to get

00:48:11.420 lies

00:48:11.740 and bad

00:48:12.060 advice

00:48:12.360 from the

00:48:12.640 Chinese

00:48:12.860 president

00:48:13.160 which led

00:48:13.740 him to

00:48:14.040 avoid

00:48:14.380 doing other

00:48:15.020 things

00:48:15.380 that would

00:48:15.740 have stopped

00:48:16.180 or at

00:48:16.820 least mitigated

00:48:17.480 the suffering

00:48:17.980 of Americans

00:48:18.540 yeah this

00:48:18.860 was not a

00:48:19.340 good source

00:48:19.840 of information

00:48:22.140 say

00:48:22.540 I know

00:48:24.280 an amazing

00:48:25.300 doctor

00:48:27.120 here in

00:48:27.660 New York

00:48:27.980 and that

00:48:29.260 doctor

00:48:29.660 who's

00:48:30.000 this is a

00:48:30.480 specialty

00:48:30.860 infectious

00:48:31.280 disease

00:48:31.860 we've spoken

00:48:32.580 about him

00:48:32.940 before on

00:48:33.280 the show

00:48:33.840 he believed

00:48:34.480 the same

00:48:34.800 thing back

00:48:35.200 then there

00:48:35.460 were a lot

00:48:35.860 of doctors

00:48:36.300 who believed

00:48:36.880 as Trump

00:48:37.360 said and

00:48:37.760 as Xi Jinping

00:48:39.200 said that

00:48:39.960 the warm

00:48:40.660 weather was

00:48:41.040 going to get

00:48:41.360 rid of this

00:48:41.800 virus the

00:48:42.380 same way

00:48:42.760 it gets

00:48:42.980 rid of

00:48:43.500 flu

00:48:43.760 it wasn't

00:48:45.340 I don't

00:48:45.680 know that it

00:48:46.160 was pure

00:48:46.620 disinformation

00:48:47.480 because there

00:48:47.860 were a lot

00:48:48.140 of straight

00:48:48.520 doctors with

00:48:49.080 no connection

00:48:49.540 to any of

00:48:49.820 these

00:48:49.920 organizations

00:48:50.460 predicting

00:48:51.180 the same

00:48:51.660 thing

00:48:52.140 one piece

00:48:52.720 of the

00:48:52.980 disinformation

00:48:53.460 that Xi

00:48:54.380 gave to

00:48:54.940 Trump

00:48:55.280 and you

00:48:55.900 know

00:48:56.080 sure

00:48:56.300 I'm just

00:48:57.600 saying that's

00:48:57.960 one that

00:48:58.260 Trump gets

00:48:58.660 hit for a

00:48:59.140 lot

00:48:59.460 and I have

00:49:00.160 to say

00:49:00.420 there were

00:49:00.760 legitimate

00:49:01.140 doctors not

00:49:01.820 just the

00:49:02.140 Chinese

00:49:02.320 president

00:49:02.620 saying exactly

00:49:03.580 that who had

00:49:04.200 no reason to

00:49:05.040 defend anything

00:49:05.680 Trump was

00:49:06.720 saying

00:49:06.980 right I think

00:49:08.200 what we're

00:49:08.480 agreeing on

00:49:09.020 here is that

00:49:09.540 Trump was

00:49:09.880 getting a lot

00:49:10.340 of conflicting

00:49:10.840 information from

00:49:11.820 a lot of

00:49:12.220 different sources

00:49:13.000 and sometimes

00:49:13.580 he made the

00:49:14.000 right decision

00:49:14.500 and sometimes

00:49:15.040 he didn't

00:49:15.540 but it wasn't

00:49:16.320 because he

00:49:16.840 didn't care

00:49:17.400 it was because

00:49:17.960 he was getting

00:49:18.640 really crazy

00:49:19.960 conflicting information

00:49:20.980 from lots of

00:49:21.600 different places

00:49:22.780 and the old

00:49:23.520 garbage in

00:49:24.180 garbage out

00:49:24.760 like you as

00:49:25.480 the president

00:49:25.900 need to be

00:49:26.480 really careful

00:49:27.200 about who you

00:49:28.280 let get in

00:49:28.740 your ear

00:49:29.120 and if you're

00:49:29.580 going to let

00:49:29.840 somebody like

00:49:30.420 that get in

00:49:31.280 your ear on

00:49:31.620 something this

00:49:32.020 important you

00:49:32.420 got to have

00:49:32.720 to have an

00:49:33.400 extra healthy

00:49:34.460 dose of

00:49:34.960 skepticism

00:49:35.460 and then

00:49:36.180 surround yourself

00:49:36.660 by true

00:49:37.040 experts but I

00:49:37.580 will say

00:49:37.940 like

00:49:38.200 exactly

00:49:38.720 the case of

00:49:39.540 Pottinger as

00:49:40.120 you pointed

00:49:40.440 out National

00:49:40.960 Security Advisor

00:49:41.740 Robert O'Brien

00:49:42.880 and Pottinger

00:49:43.400 his deputy

00:49:44.080 they were

00:49:45.280 in there

00:49:45.720 saying

00:49:46.240 this

00:49:47.160 this is

00:49:47.860 1918

00:49:48.440 this is

00:49:49.180 going to

00:49:49.340 be 1918

00:49:49.920 this is

00:49:51.100 bad

00:49:51.560 and you

00:49:52.280 got to

00:49:52.560 shut down

00:49:52.940 travel

00:49:53.320 and his

00:49:53.820 political team

00:49:54.400 was all

00:49:54.680 saying

00:49:54.880 don't do

00:49:55.420 anything

00:49:55.680 of the

00:49:56.040 kind

00:49:56.600 don't

00:49:57.040 do not

00:49:57.400 shut down

00:49:58.080 travelers

00:49:58.480 from China

00:49:59.020 it's

00:49:59.740 it's a

00:50:00.140 terrible

00:50:00.400 move for

00:50:00.780 you to

00:50:00.980 politically

00:50:01.340 and Trump

00:50:02.420 did it

00:50:02.800 and he

00:50:03.160 was called

00:50:03.620 xenophobic

00:50:04.200 including

00:50:04.620 by Joe

00:50:05.680 Biden

00:50:05.900 right

00:50:06.600 right

00:50:06.800 and it

00:50:07.820 was an

00:50:08.080 important

00:50:08.460 thing

00:50:08.780 he did

00:50:09.060 it was

00:50:09.260 one

00:50:09.580 indisputably

00:50:10.560 good thing

00:50:11.000 Trump did

00:50:11.440 in the

00:50:11.600 whole

00:50:11.720 crisis

00:50:12.060 and there's

00:50:12.420 a long

00:50:14.080 that your

00:50:16.800 book is

00:50:17.260 not afraid

00:50:17.780 to go

00:50:18.220 both

00:50:18.520 places

00:50:18.920 if it's

00:50:19.260 good for

00:50:19.540 him

00:50:19.660 it's

00:50:19.840 in there

00:50:20.060 if it's

00:50:20.280 factual

00:50:20.640 if it's

00:50:21.180 bad

00:50:21.360 for him

00:50:21.640 it's

00:50:21.800 in there

00:50:22.040 if it's

00:50:22.260 factual

00:50:22.620 that's

00:50:23.440 right

00:50:23.620 and you

00:50:24.240 know

00:50:24.320 there's

00:50:24.520 a lot

00:50:24.740 of

00:50:24.840 blame

00:50:25.060 to go

00:50:25.420 around

00:50:25.780 and the

00:50:26.280 bottom

00:50:26.500 line

00:50:26.760 is

00:50:26.960 that

00:50:27.240 you

00:50:27.580 know

00:50:27.680 if

00:50:27.960 Trump

00:50:28.180 had

00:50:28.360 followed

00:50:28.700 the

00:50:29.200 advice

00:50:29.960 of his

00:50:30.240 national

00:50:30.460 security

00:50:30.740 health

00:50:31.000 officials

00:50:31.360 throughout

00:50:31.720 instead

00:50:32.160 of the

00:50:32.320 political

00:50:32.560 officials

00:50:32.960 he might

00:50:33.940 be

00:50:34.140 reelected

00:50:35.240 and as

00:50:35.880 it turns

00:50:36.180 out

00:50:36.400 that the

00:50:36.960 best

00:50:37.200 political

00:50:37.520 decision

00:50:37.900 was to

00:50:38.280 follow

00:50:38.600 the

00:50:39.220 national

00:50:39.520 security

00:50:39.780 health

00:50:40.040 officials

00:50:40.360 and realize

00:50:40.840 what we're

00:50:41.200 dealing

00:50:41.480 with in

00:50:41.900 the

00:50:42.040 CCP

00:50:42.380 which is

00:50:42.860 a government

00:50:44.120 that is

00:50:44.640 secretive

00:50:46.060 that is

00:50:46.360 covering up

00:50:46.920 what happened

00:50:47.580 at the

00:50:48.020 beginning

00:50:48.260 of this

00:50:48.560 virus

00:50:48.780 not just

00:50:49.160 the origin

00:50:49.560 but what

00:50:49.940 happened

00:50:50.200 in the

00:50:50.420 first few

00:50:50.780 months

00:50:51.080 and continues

00:50:51.940 to withhold

00:50:52.540 scientific

00:50:53.100 important

00:50:53.560 information

00:50:54.020 from the

00:50:54.340 international

00:50:54.620 community

00:50:55.100 to this

00:50:55.840 day

00:50:56.160 that's

00:50:56.580 the

00:50:56.740 problem

00:50:57.240 okay

00:50:57.540 and Trump

00:50:58.040 did realize

00:50:58.960 that

00:50:59.180 albeit a

00:50:59.880 little bit

00:51:00.220 late

00:51:00.440 he eventually

00:51:00.940 did come

00:51:01.420 around to

00:51:01.800 that

00:51:01.980 awakening

00:51:02.380 and I

00:51:03.060 hope

00:51:03.240 that this

00:51:03.680 book will

00:51:04.080 prompt

00:51:04.520 that

00:51:04.680 such an

00:51:05.120 awakening

00:51:05.680 for the

00:51:06.360 rest of

00:51:06.640 the people

00:51:06.920 as well

00:51:07.300 it's a

00:51:08.420 fascinating

00:51:08.820 read

00:51:09.180 and gets

00:51:09.620 into

00:51:09.920 you know

00:51:10.200 far more

00:51:10.640 than just

00:51:11.040 this

00:51:11.300 just where

00:51:11.620 we are

00:51:11.880 with China

00:51:12.300 and how

00:51:12.720 should we

00:51:13.360 be thinking

00:51:13.720 about them

00:51:14.120 and what

00:51:14.420 is Trump's

00:51:14.980 legacy

00:51:15.260 when it

00:51:16.100 comes to

00:51:16.700 shining a

00:51:17.220 light on

00:51:17.540 them

00:51:17.740 the book

00:51:19.180 is called

00:51:19.860 chaos

00:51:20.660 under heaven

00:51:21.260 trump

00:51:21.840 she in

00:51:22.220 the battle

00:51:22.500 for the

00:51:22.760 21st

00:51:23.200 century

00:51:23.520 and its

00:51:23.940 author

00:51:24.260 is

00:51:24.580 josh

00:51:25.160 rogan

00:51:25.680 happy to

00:51:26.800 say

00:51:27.060 an objective

00:51:27.760 journalist

00:51:28.560 still

00:51:28.920 even if

00:51:29.680 you are

00:51:29.920 an opinion

00:51:30.240 columnist

00:51:30.760 i agree

00:51:31.060 with

00:51:31.200 that ironic

00:51:31.860 no i

00:51:33.060 totally agree

00:51:34.680 it's sort

00:51:34.920 of where

00:51:35.560 we are

00:51:35.840 right now

00:51:36.120 you gotta

00:51:36.360 be open

00:51:36.780 about where

00:51:37.520 you stand

00:51:38.060 and i

00:51:38.920 think that's

00:51:39.600 really the

00:51:39.920 only way

00:51:40.280 but like

00:51:40.620 just being

00:51:41.260 open about

00:51:41.660 your opinions

00:51:42.180 or your

00:51:42.600 leanings

00:51:43.040 or your

00:51:43.280 conclusions

00:51:43.680 doesn't mean

00:51:44.620 you're incapable

00:51:45.360 of fair

00:51:45.920 reporting

00:51:46.460 that's where

00:51:46.920 i think

00:51:47.220 most of

00:51:47.800 the

00:51:47.980 journalists

00:51:48.260 today are

00:51:48.660 falling

00:51:48.940 down

00:51:49.360 piece

00:51:50.080 two

00:51:50.440 and you're

00:51:51.040 not

00:51:51.340 you gotta

00:51:52.220 tell people

00:51:52.760 what you

00:51:53.200 know

00:51:53.480 and what

00:51:53.880 you don't

00:51:54.260 know

00:51:54.500 and why

00:51:54.960 you think

00:51:55.320 what you

00:51:55.640 think

00:51:55.940 you have

00:51:56.380 to be

00:51:56.620 honest

00:51:56.880 with your

00:51:57.260 readers

00:51:57.560 and your

00:51:57.900 viewers

00:51:58.240 or they

00:51:58.680 won't

00:51:59.340 trust you

00:51:59.840 and that's

00:52:00.900 what's

00:52:01.680 important

00:52:01.960 in journalism

00:52:02.440 it's not

00:52:02.980 what you

00:52:03.700 write about

00:52:04.140 or how

00:52:04.440 you write

00:52:04.760 about it

00:52:05.140 but you

00:52:05.500 have to

00:52:06.020 be authentic

00:52:06.480 and you

00:52:06.920 can't play

00:52:07.620 games with

00:52:08.080 the readers

00:52:08.380 because they're

00:52:08.760 too smart

00:52:09.140 they're gonna

00:52:09.460 figure it

00:52:09.880 out

00:52:10.080 exactly

00:52:11.520 nobody's

00:52:12.300 and it

00:52:12.980 works for

00:52:13.580 governments

00:52:13.920 too

00:52:14.180 nobody's

00:52:14.700 buying

00:52:14.960 fish pop

00:52:15.560 nobody

00:52:16.320 Josh

00:52:18.620 thank you

00:52:19.180 thank you

00:52:20.100 so much

00:52:20.520 up next

00:52:22.100 Dr.

00:52:23.200 Marty

00:52:23.600 McCary

00:52:24.040 with everything

00:52:25.100 you need to

00:52:25.500 know about

00:52:26.060 the vaccines

00:52:26.760 herd immunity

00:52:27.360 and what your

00:52:28.300 summer's gonna

00:52:28.740 look like

00:52:29.180 hey doc

00:52:34.160 how you

00:52:34.380 doing

00:52:34.620 I'm doing

00:52:35.520 great

00:52:35.900 great to

00:52:36.480 have you

00:52:36.840 here

00:52:37.240 all right

00:52:38.100 so let's

00:52:38.540 talk about

00:52:38.960 I just

00:52:39.260 want people

00:52:39.680 to understand

00:52:40.160 that you

00:52:40.780 have been

00:52:41.100 all over

00:52:41.700 the news

00:52:42.240 you're

00:52:42.580 incredibly

00:52:43.280 respected

00:52:43.840 as a

00:52:44.200 doctor

00:52:44.520 until you

00:52:45.580 wrote on

00:52:46.060 February

00:52:46.420 18th

00:52:47.120 2021

00:52:47.940 that

00:52:49.200 COVID-19

00:52:49.880 would be

00:52:50.280 mostly gone

00:52:50.940 by April

00:52:51.440 based on

00:52:52.120 a bunch

00:52:52.560 of factors

00:52:53.100 and predicted

00:52:53.620 we'd be

00:52:54.020 at herd

00:52:54.300 immunity

00:52:54.620 and then

00:52:55.100 they were

00:52:55.360 like

00:52:55.600 Marty

00:52:55.860 who

00:52:56.100 what

00:52:56.680 Johns Hopkins

00:52:57.840 where

00:52:58.200 huh

00:52:58.740 I never

00:52:59.100 heard of

00:52:59.400 him

00:52:59.580 it's just

00:53:01.820 so funny

00:53:02.080 the media

00:53:02.420 is so

00:53:02.660 predictable

00:53:03.020 how like

00:53:03.540 you start

00:53:03.840 to step

00:53:04.400 out of line

00:53:04.900 with the

00:53:05.240 lockstep

00:53:05.620 opinions

00:53:06.040 that are

00:53:06.420 quote

00:53:06.700 acceptable

00:53:07.500 with a

00:53:08.060 capital

00:53:08.300 a

00:53:08.560 and you're

00:53:09.340 banished

00:53:09.860 so before

00:53:12.400 we get to

00:53:12.860 that I do

00:53:13.660 want to say

00:53:14.260 now here we

00:53:15.220 are in

00:53:15.740 April

00:53:16.140 it doesn't

00:53:17.140 seem like

00:53:17.580 we're at

00:53:17.880 herd immunity

00:53:18.420 so what

00:53:19.080 of that

00:53:19.440 prediction

00:53:19.860 well it's

00:53:21.160 regional

00:53:21.460 the pandemic

00:53:22.080 is regional

00:53:22.620 it's entirely

00:53:23.460 different

00:53:23.820 it's almost

00:53:24.240 as if

00:53:24.580 there's

00:53:24.800 different

00:53:25.040 countries

00:53:25.560 in different

00:53:26.200 parts of

00:53:26.900 the United

00:53:27.200 States

00:53:27.580 they're

00:53:27.800 basically

00:53:28.180 there in

00:53:28.820 certain

00:53:29.060 states

00:53:29.560 Alaska

00:53:31.240 has had

00:53:31.840 no deaths

00:53:32.340 in three

00:53:32.840 weeks

00:53:33.240 what do you

00:53:33.880 call that

00:53:34.340 North Dakota

00:53:35.460 and South

00:53:36.000 Dakota

00:53:36.320 one death

00:53:37.080 cumulatively

00:53:37.760 last week

00:53:38.640 Arizona just

00:53:39.720 hit single

00:53:40.200 digit deaths

00:53:40.860 and case numbers

00:53:42.380 are now around

00:53:43.360 a hundred a day

00:53:44.140 in New Mexico

00:53:44.860 which is leading

00:53:45.860 the way

00:53:46.160 they've got about

00:53:46.760 54% of their

00:53:47.760 adult population

00:53:48.460 vaccinated

00:53:49.040 Michigan's a

00:53:49.920 different story

00:53:50.440 so parts of the

00:53:51.340 country are going

00:53:51.760 to hit it

00:53:52.200 in late April

00:53:53.320 and remember

00:53:54.040 April's got 30

00:53:54.820 days

00:53:55.120 they're going

00:53:55.960 to hit it

00:53:56.260 in late April

00:53:56.800 and other parts

00:53:57.380 of the country

00:53:57.840 are going

00:53:58.140 to be there

00:53:58.460 in May

00:53:58.760 you can still

00:54:00.040 get there

00:54:00.620 don't get me

00:54:01.600 wrong

00:54:01.780 I'm 100%

00:54:02.500 hoping you're

00:54:02.980 right

00:54:03.200 I would love

00:54:04.360 to see it

00:54:04.700 happen

00:54:04.960 and I mean

00:54:05.680 even though

00:54:06.040 the numbers

00:54:06.520 are still

00:54:06.800 not great

00:54:07.220 here in

00:54:07.500 New York

00:54:07.880 and in

00:54:08.160 New Jersey

00:54:08.580 they're better

00:54:09.680 than they

00:54:10.040 were

00:54:10.380 why do you

00:54:11.600 think Michigan

00:54:12.100 is so bad

00:54:12.500 the papers

00:54:13.920 are loving

00:54:14.400 to point

00:54:14.700 to Michigan

00:54:15.160 where they've

00:54:16.200 got a

00:54:16.560 seven-fold

00:54:17.000 increase in

00:54:17.520 cases from

00:54:18.000 late February

00:54:18.760 Illinois is

00:54:19.600 not doing

00:54:19.900 so well

00:54:20.360 either

00:54:20.580 but why do

00:54:21.000 you think

00:54:21.180 that is

00:54:21.600 well yeah

00:54:22.560 Michigan has

00:54:23.180 thrown off

00:54:23.600 the numbers

00:54:23.920 for the

00:54:24.240 whole country

00:54:24.740 Michigan

00:54:25.140 and four

00:54:25.660 other states

00:54:26.220 are collectively

00:54:26.960 about half

00:54:28.200 of all the

00:54:28.740 new cases

00:54:29.300 right now

00:54:29.720 in the

00:54:29.920 United States

00:54:30.520 and what's

00:54:30.900 happening

00:54:31.220 is you're

00:54:31.960 seeing the

00:54:32.420 seasonal

00:54:32.720 variation

00:54:33.280 you're seeing

00:54:34.020 an outbreak

00:54:34.400 among young

00:54:35.020 people

00:54:35.440 Michigan

00:54:36.120 in particular

00:54:37.080 instituted

00:54:37.920 mandatory

00:54:38.360 testing

00:54:39.080 for sports

00:54:40.000 and when

00:54:41.520 you have

00:54:41.920 both an

00:54:42.360 outbreak

00:54:42.700 and mandatory

00:54:43.440 testing

00:54:43.880 where you're

00:54:44.200 capturing

00:54:44.560 a lot

00:54:44.820 of cases

00:54:45.200 that's a

00:54:45.660 lot of

00:54:45.940 infection

00:54:46.400 circulating

00:54:47.340 out there

00:54:47.740 so people

00:54:48.500 have to

00:54:48.760 remember

00:54:49.000 the pandemic

00:54:49.460 is not

00:54:49.900 over

00:54:50.260 and in

00:54:51.000 Michigan

00:54:51.280 they've

00:54:51.660 got the

00:54:51.940 B.1.1.7

00:54:52.700 dominating

00:54:53.500 it's actually

00:54:54.520 a lot of

00:54:54.940 the parts

00:54:55.280 of the

00:54:55.440 Great Lakes

00:54:55.760 region

00:54:56.140 so that's

00:54:57.240 going to be

00:54:57.580 the part

00:54:57.960 that lags

00:54:58.500 behind the

00:54:58.900 rest of

00:54:59.160 the country

00:54:59.500 also there's

00:55:00.020 been a lot

00:55:00.440 of missteps

00:55:01.040 in the

00:55:01.420 vaccine roll

00:55:02.020 out there

00:55:02.480 and I

00:55:03.280 you know

00:55:03.520 I would

00:55:03.840 blame

00:55:04.120 both

00:55:04.460 Michigan

00:55:05.100 and our

00:55:05.560 national

00:55:05.960 medical

00:55:06.440 leadership

00:55:06.820 which has

00:55:07.260 failed us

00:55:07.700 on some

00:55:08.040 of these

00:55:08.240 things

00:55:08.620 just to

00:55:09.700 back up

00:55:10.020 what's

00:55:10.280 B.1.1.7

00:55:11.020 oh

00:55:12.380 that's the

00:55:12.860 that's the

00:55:13.660 UK variant

00:55:14.780 which is

00:55:15.340 dominant now

00:55:16.160 it's more

00:55:16.960 contagious

00:55:17.440 and it's

00:55:18.480 dominant now

00:55:19.140 in certain

00:55:19.720 parts of

00:55:20.040 the country

00:55:20.300 with Michigan

00:55:20.820 being one

00:55:21.320 of those

00:55:21.740 as far

00:55:24.160 as we

00:55:24.420 know

00:55:24.640 there was

00:55:25.100 reporting

00:55:25.540 about

00:55:26.000 how

00:55:26.940 there's

00:55:28.280 a South

00:55:28.740 African

00:55:29.240 variant

00:55:29.720 the South

00:55:30.240 African

00:55:30.560 variant

00:55:30.900 may evade

00:55:31.520 protection

00:55:31.960 from the

00:55:32.360 Pfizer

00:55:32.620 vaccine

00:55:33.100 according to

00:55:33.960 this Israeli

00:55:34.520 study

00:55:34.920 and do

00:55:35.880 you buy

00:55:36.260 that

00:55:36.520 because

00:55:36.720 former

00:55:37.240 FDA

00:55:37.520 commissioner

00:55:37.860 Scott

00:55:38.140 Gottlieb

00:55:39.280 is saying

00:55:39.700 no

00:55:40.660 don't

00:55:41.080 trust

00:55:41.340 that

00:55:41.500 but

00:55:41.620 he's

00:55:41.760 on the

00:55:42.000 Pfizer

00:55:42.240 board

00:55:42.620 too

00:55:42.860 so

00:55:43.020 what

00:55:43.480 do

00:55:43.580 you

00:55:43.660 think

00:55:43.820 of

00:55:43.960 that

00:55:44.100 well

00:55:45.100 I

00:55:45.520 agree

00:55:46.320 with

00:55:46.520 him

00:55:46.680 so

00:55:47.140 we're

00:55:48.080 missing

00:55:48.420 the

00:55:48.960 headline

00:55:49.400 and

00:55:49.700 misinterpreting

00:55:50.560 the research

00:55:51.240 paper

00:55:51.600 that just

00:55:52.160 came out

00:55:52.540 two days

00:55:52.840 ago

00:55:53.040 and I

00:55:53.800 read it

00:55:54.220 and it

00:55:54.560 shows

00:55:54.840 that

00:55:55.120 in a

00:55:55.740 country

00:55:55.940 of about

00:55:56.300 7 million

00:55:56.880 they found

00:55:57.460 eight people

00:55:58.180 with infection

00:55:58.840 from

00:55:59.280 testing

00:56:00.360 after they

00:56:01.660 were

00:56:01.920 immunized

00:56:02.400 but not

00:56:02.840 fully

00:56:03.260 optimized

00:56:03.760 on their

00:56:04.240 immunity

00:56:04.540 so

00:56:04.920 we believe

00:56:05.620 that

00:56:05.800 two weeks

00:56:06.280 after your

00:56:06.680 second dose

00:56:07.160 is when

00:56:07.460 you're

00:56:07.680 optimized

00:56:08.100 all eight

00:56:09.040 of those

00:56:09.320 cases

00:56:09.700 were before

00:56:10.320 that

00:56:10.680 and

00:56:11.400 they were

00:56:12.360 mostly

00:56:13.020 mild

00:56:13.660 or asymptomatic

00:56:14.620 and the

00:56:15.180 authors

00:56:15.480 didn't say

00:56:16.000 that anybody

00:56:16.560 got sick

00:56:17.100 so the

00:56:17.420 headline

00:56:17.760 the take

00:56:18.120 home

00:56:18.260 message

00:56:18.520 is

00:56:18.820 sure

00:56:19.540 if

00:56:19.820 in the

00:56:20.240 rare

00:56:20.580 time

00:56:21.000 somebody

00:56:21.380 will

00:56:21.680 develop

00:56:22.040 an

00:56:22.180 infection

00:56:22.540 usually

00:56:23.000 asymptomatic

00:56:23.820 after

00:56:24.160 vaccination

00:56:24.760 it's

00:56:25.680 going to

00:56:25.900 be more

00:56:26.340 likely

00:56:26.680 to be

00:56:26.940 one

00:56:27.100 of the

00:56:27.300 variants

00:56:27.720 okay

00:56:28.080 no

00:56:28.760 surprise

00:56:29.200 there

00:56:29.560 but

00:56:30.580 the

00:56:31.740 vaccines

00:56:32.300 are still

00:56:32.920 100%

00:56:33.980 effective

00:56:34.520 in

00:56:35.020 serious

00:56:35.640 illness

00:56:36.120 and death

00:56:36.800 preventing

00:56:37.340 death

00:56:37.820 and

00:56:38.000 hospitalization

00:56:38.660 that should

00:56:39.240 be our

00:56:39.540 outcome

00:56:40.040 and we

00:56:40.640 need to

00:56:40.900 move

00:56:41.260 beyond

00:56:41.680 the

00:56:41.900 efficacy

00:56:42.380 numbers

00:56:42.980 and look

00:56:43.380 at

00:56:43.640 we're

00:56:44.200 saving

00:56:44.560 lives

00:56:44.920 with

00:56:45.100 these

00:56:45.260 vaccines

00:56:45.620 and it's

00:56:46.060 still

00:56:46.260 basically

00:56:46.900 100%

00:56:48.040 effective

00:56:48.560 in doing

00:56:48.980 that

00:56:49.260 the

00:56:50.580 fear porn

00:56:51.140 continues

00:56:51.780 i mean

00:56:52.100 the news

00:56:52.760 loves

00:56:53.540 to play

00:56:54.300 up

00:56:54.460 anything

00:56:54.840 that's

00:56:55.200 going

00:56:55.300 to scare

00:56:55.760 the

00:56:55.920 you know

00:56:56.220 what

00:56:56.460 out of

00:56:56.700 you

00:56:56.820 they

00:56:56.940 just

00:56:57.140 do

00:56:57.280 that's

00:56:57.540 their

00:56:57.680 business

00:56:58.160 the

00:56:58.680 double

00:56:59.060 mutant

00:56:59.480 remember

00:56:59.940 the

00:57:00.160 double

00:57:00.500 mutant

00:57:00.960 like

00:57:01.280 some

00:57:01.540 alien

00:57:02.040 with

00:57:02.340 two

00:57:02.580 heads

00:57:02.940 in

00:57:03.160 california

00:57:03.980 i mean

00:57:04.920 it's

00:57:05.160 just

00:57:05.580 out of

00:57:06.060 control

00:57:06.520 i mean

00:57:06.780 let's

00:57:07.140 praise

00:57:07.560 the lord

00:57:08.020 that the

00:57:08.440 vaccines

00:57:08.960 are 100%

00:57:10.020 effective

00:57:10.500 in killing

00:57:10.960 this virus

00:57:11.660 you know

00:57:12.120 right

00:57:12.600 right

00:57:13.120 okay

00:57:13.380 so

00:57:13.580 so

00:57:14.060 what about

00:57:15.120 nationally

00:57:15.640 because

00:57:16.040 i do

00:57:16.420 think

00:57:16.600 people

00:57:17.020 you know

00:57:18.200 we're

00:57:18.400 we all

00:57:19.020 want to

00:57:19.300 get to

00:57:19.480 the point

00:57:19.700 where we

00:57:19.920 can

00:57:20.020 take off

00:57:20.400 our

00:57:20.520 damn

00:57:20.740 mask

00:57:20.940 living

00:57:21.220 in new

00:57:21.720 york

00:57:21.960 which is

00:57:22.260 a blue

00:57:22.560 state

00:57:22.900 where the

00:57:23.200 numbers

00:57:23.420 are still

00:57:24.020 not great

00:57:24.600 i'm so

00:57:25.520 sick of

00:57:25.840 the mask

00:57:26.220 i'm so

00:57:26.640 sick of

00:57:26.960 living like

00:57:27.420 this i can

00:57:28.000 see the

00:57:28.420 overreactions

00:57:29.040 going on

00:57:29.720 and on

00:57:30.100 like they're

00:57:30.480 just so

00:57:30.940 paranoid

00:57:31.460 here and

00:57:32.400 and like

00:57:32.840 you've got

00:57:33.240 some news

00:57:33.740 personalities

00:57:34.340 who are

00:57:34.860 based in

00:57:35.420 this area

00:57:35.820 saying i've

00:57:37.140 i've been

00:57:37.600 fully vaccinated

00:57:38.920 fully vaccinated

00:57:40.260 and i'm still

00:57:41.560 gonna wear

00:57:42.060 double masks

00:57:42.880 everywhere and

00:57:43.640 not go out

00:57:44.260 into groups

00:57:44.700 of large

00:57:45.060 people i'm

00:57:45.560 like for

00:57:46.280 the love

00:57:46.620 of god

00:57:46.980 what incentive

00:57:47.680 do i have

00:57:48.180 to get

00:57:48.420 the vaccine

00:57:49.000 that's how

00:57:50.000 i'm gonna

00:57:50.180 have to live

00:57:50.640 we've got

00:57:51.420 to give

00:57:51.620 people a

00:57:52.020 reason to

00:57:52.460 get the

00:57:52.740 vaccine and

00:57:53.480 as you

00:57:53.800 know i

00:57:54.060 wrote the

00:57:54.400 wall street

00:57:54.700 journal that

00:57:55.240 you get

00:57:55.540 your vaccine

00:57:56.140 wait a month

00:57:57.300 for it to

00:57:57.680 kick in and

00:57:58.580 live your

00:57:59.080 normal life

00:57:59.860 now we're

00:58:00.220 telling people

00:58:00.800 to keep

00:58:01.760 wearing a

00:58:02.180 mask in

00:58:02.720 an indoor

00:58:03.500 public

00:58:04.380 gathering

00:58:04.900 because business

00:58:05.680 owners say

00:58:06.120 it's just too

00:58:06.640 hard to enforce

00:58:07.440 a partial

00:58:08.060 mask policy

00:58:09.520 in their

00:58:10.020 grocery store

00:58:10.780 and that's

00:58:11.560 reasonable for

00:58:12.020 a little

00:58:12.400 longer it's

00:58:12.940 not that

00:58:13.220 far off

00:58:14.360 you know the

00:58:14.760 south in

00:58:15.860 the united

00:58:16.180 states is

00:58:16.540 doing great

00:58:17.220 and they're

00:58:17.560 going to

00:58:18.060 probably see

00:58:18.580 those mask

00:58:19.280 requests to

00:58:21.020 wear a

00:58:21.420 mask come

00:58:21.880 get lifted

00:58:22.480 very soon

00:58:23.260 but i don't

00:58:25.400 know if i

00:58:25.780 should be

00:58:26.020 offended because

00:58:26.660 i'm a surgeon

00:58:27.220 i've been

00:58:27.520 wearing a

00:58:27.880 mask my

00:58:28.300 whole life

00:58:28.780 you mean you

00:58:29.140 don't want to

00:58:29.500 wear a mask

00:58:29.920 every day like

00:58:30.540 i do

00:58:30.940 that's by

00:58:32.080 choice sir

00:58:32.800 by choice

00:58:33.500 i'm a journalist

00:58:35.320 we don't want to

00:58:36.140 mask it up

00:58:36.760 please we're

00:58:37.820 we're you know

00:58:38.720 sort of freewheeling

00:58:39.760 we're risk takers

00:58:40.580 no although sadly

00:58:41.860 it's not true i

00:58:42.680 mean because the

00:58:43.360 person i was

00:58:43.760 referring to is joy

00:58:44.400 reed i mean

00:58:45.060 she's a journalist

00:58:45.880 too jonathan

00:58:46.520 capehart just

00:58:47.040 came out

00:58:47.380 now realize i

00:58:48.260 understand that

00:58:49.000 african americans

00:58:49.700 have done less

00:58:50.840 well with the

00:58:51.640 disease than

00:58:52.400 other people

00:58:52.840 uh so i'm

00:58:54.020 sympathetic to

00:58:54.640 that but double

00:58:55.400 vaccinated double

00:58:56.480 masks seems

00:58:57.480 crazy to me and

00:58:58.300 you see these

00:58:58.680 pictures of uh

00:58:59.840 joe biden in

00:59:01.060 the oval office

00:59:01.660 with our vice

00:59:02.380 president kamala

00:59:03.000 harris and

00:59:03.340 they're both

00:59:03.880 they've both

00:59:04.540 been vaccinated

00:59:05.040 they're both

00:59:05.440 wearing the

00:59:05.780 mask i'm like

00:59:06.220 what are you

00:59:06.480 doing why

00:59:07.140 are you doing

00:59:07.480 that yeah

00:59:08.360 let's give

00:59:08.940 people a reason

00:59:09.880 to get the

00:59:10.380 vaccine let's

00:59:11.320 liberate them

00:59:12.160 after the

00:59:12.760 immunity kicks

00:59:13.660 in and let's

00:59:14.820 let's have

00:59:15.340 give some

00:59:15.760 positive messaging

00:59:16.860 out there you

00:59:18.020 know one of the

00:59:18.460 reasons i wrote

00:59:19.420 about herd

00:59:19.940 immunity coming

00:59:20.660 this spring is

00:59:21.580 that i feel

00:59:22.680 people need

00:59:23.380 hope you know

00:59:24.300 i mean the

00:59:24.780 the effects of

00:59:25.840 profound isolation

00:59:27.180 that affects your

00:59:28.700 mental and your

00:59:30.140 physiologic reserve

00:59:31.620 and tell me next

00:59:33.360 time you hear if

00:59:34.300 you ever hear any

00:59:35.740 of our medical

00:59:36.300 leadership fauci

00:59:37.260 walensky you name

00:59:38.100 them talk about

00:59:38.960 harm of kids

00:59:40.400 getting shut out

00:59:41.140 the downsides of

00:59:42.480 profound isolation

00:59:43.780 on human health

00:59:45.040 on natural

00:59:46.140 immunity on

00:59:46.960 hope on being

00:59:47.660 liberated after

00:59:48.380 this is the

00:59:49.140 messaging that

00:59:49.820 we need not

00:59:50.980 the impending

00:59:51.700 doom i mean

00:59:52.880 good stuff is

00:59:53.500 happening and

00:59:54.060 even in the

00:59:54.460 cases in the

00:59:55.040 north we talked

00:59:55.580 about michigan

00:59:56.200 those local

00:59:58.600 outbreaks are

00:59:59.180 rolling over right

00:59:59.980 now we're seeing

01:00:00.480 really good signs

01:00:01.160 there and i think

01:00:01.680 we're going to be

01:00:02.080 in a good place

01:00:02.640 in may

01:00:02.960 all right so

01:00:04.460 fauci as as

01:00:05.920 usual is going

01:00:07.080 a different way

01:00:07.660 fauci's messages

01:00:08.600 over the past

01:00:09.520 week or two have

01:00:10.560 been kids are

01:00:11.840 going to need to

01:00:12.260 be vaccinated too

01:00:13.160 for us to get

01:00:14.020 herd immunity

01:00:14.500 period um i'm

01:00:16.040 still not taking

01:00:16.760 a trip i'm not

01:00:17.980 taking any fun

01:00:18.660 trips i won't

01:00:19.800 even though he's

01:00:20.320 vaccinated and i'm

01:00:21.360 not going inside

01:00:21.980 anywhere where

01:00:22.580 where not everybody's

01:00:23.600 wearing a mask and

01:00:24.660 on top of all that

01:00:25.400 he seems to be

01:00:25.880 moving the goalposts

01:00:26.840 yet again on herd

01:00:27.640 immunity saying

01:00:29.060 okay first first he

01:00:30.360 said we need to

01:00:30.980 vaccinate 70 to

01:00:32.360 85 percent of the

01:00:33.300 population to reach

01:00:34.680 herd immunity which

01:00:35.520 he keeps hiking the

01:00:36.640 number uh he's

01:00:38.060 ignoring natural

01:00:38.820 immunity like it

01:00:39.480 doesn't make any

01:00:40.060 difference you know if

01:00:40.900 you had covid and

01:00:41.640 you and you

01:00:42.220 survived

01:00:42.740 and now he's

01:00:43.900 saying people are

01:00:44.640 just too focused on

01:00:45.500 herd immunity we

01:00:46.540 just we really don't

01:00:47.420 even know what that

01:00:48.520 is so just embrace

01:00:49.840 the mask and and

01:00:51.540 the vaccines and

01:00:52.440 you know i'll get

01:00:52.920 back to you when you

01:00:53.520 can have your

01:00:53.840 freedom

01:00:54.080 i mean this guy's

01:00:57.460 like he's such a

01:00:58.560 bummer and i don't

01:00:59.340 trust him and he's

01:01:00.180 been wrong so many

01:01:01.000 times and he's the

01:01:02.400 one he really keeps

01:01:03.620 moving it's like the

01:01:05.220 dog with the bumper

01:01:06.160 he just won't let us

01:01:07.320 catch the damn

01:01:07.960 bumper and pretty

01:01:09.200 soon we're just

01:01:09.660 going to stop running

01:01:10.420 after his stupid car

01:01:11.580 and go it down a

01:01:12.740 different lane take

01:01:13.820 off our own masks and

01:01:15.040 see what life brings

01:01:16.080 us but we're certainly

01:01:16.820 not waiting around till

01:01:17.700 fauci tells us it's

01:01:19.280 safe because i do think

01:01:19.980 he's one of those guys

01:01:20.680 who's just he keeps

01:01:22.280 saying i'm just about

01:01:23.060 public health and but

01:01:23.960 but he's about one

01:01:24.880 little area of public

01:01:25.960 health one he doesn't

01:01:27.420 care about all the

01:01:28.220 things you just

01:01:28.760 mentioned

01:01:29.160 our fight is not just

01:01:31.200 against viral

01:01:32.420 replication it's about

01:01:34.180 valuing human life and

01:01:36.240 it's about restoring that

01:01:37.600 human connection and i

01:01:38.740 fear that in trying to

01:01:40.780 extinguish this virus at

01:01:42.280 all cost he's not

01:01:44.360 seeing that and and i

01:01:45.540 wish you know for when

01:01:46.960 you watch financial

01:01:47.820 networks and people say

01:01:49.140 buy a stock sell a

01:01:50.160 stock i wish that they

01:01:50.940 could have their annual

01:01:51.840 returns for the last

01:01:53.120 three years in the

01:01:53.800 corner of the screen

01:01:54.520 okay if fauci had that

01:01:56.160 right now it's not a

01:01:57.700 very good track record

01:01:58.500 he missed the pandemic

01:01:59.960 scott gallib and i and

01:02:01.060 others were out there

01:02:01.820 sounding the alarm in

01:02:03.320 late february and early

01:02:04.540 march calling mardi

01:02:06.460 gras south by southwest

01:02:07.820 the ncaa it was scary

01:02:09.720 i mean we didn't know

01:02:10.420 if we were going to

01:02:10.840 lose one percent of

01:02:11.880 our nation's kids right

01:02:13.580 i mean we learned the

01:02:14.580 case fatality rate came

01:02:16.080 in lower and we learned

01:02:17.220 it was skewed towards

01:02:18.040 those with chronic

01:02:18.640 conditions but it was

01:02:19.480 scary at that time we

01:02:20.440 were watching yeah

01:02:21.340 rationing and in in

01:02:23.380 italy and even at the

01:02:24.560 on the brink of our

01:02:25.460 hospitals in new york

01:02:26.580 so where was he up

01:02:28.760 until march 6th never

01:02:31.020 said a single thing

01:02:32.200 about a pandemic that

01:02:33.520 would sweep across the

01:02:34.820 u.s the most warning

01:02:36.460 he gave us was he

01:02:37.680 said quote older

01:02:39.440 people should avoid

01:02:40.740 taking a cruise that

01:02:42.160 was in the first week

01:02:42.820 of march and there's

01:02:44.140 quote there's a chance

01:02:45.220 we could look back and

01:02:46.040 say boy that was really

01:02:46.900 bad that was the most

01:02:47.960 you know we're like hey

01:02:49.180 we need ppe we need

01:02:50.700 um you know stop

01:02:52.200 non-essential travel in

01:02:53.280 the u.s we need to do

01:02:54.400 all this stuff start

01:02:55.500 contingency plans and

01:02:57.020 that how did he not know

01:02:58.300 that this was an

01:02:59.400 airborne transmission he

01:03:00.720 was the quote unquote

01:03:02.860 nation's top infectious

01:03:05.080 diseases doctor which

01:03:06.600 is a title the media

01:03:08.120 granted him i can tell

01:03:09.560 you that i it's not a

01:03:11.320 title i i believe is

01:03:12.560 true but he was crowned

01:03:14.400 this title well he was

01:03:16.240 there at niada back in

01:03:19.360 in 2003 with SARS okay

01:03:22.960 SARS and COVID-19 Megan

01:03:25.880 spread the exact same

01:03:28.140 way it's aerosolized

01:03:29.900 virus it's the it's but

01:03:31.700 they're both novel

01:03:32.640 coronaviruses there's

01:03:33.680 only three novel

01:03:35.140 coronaviruses in the

01:03:36.340 history of the world

01:03:36.980 that caused serious

01:03:37.860 illness that was

01:03:39.280 aerosolized droplet and

01:03:40.580 masks work to stop it

01:03:41.920 in Asia this is the

01:03:43.460 exact same mode of

01:03:44.720 transmission and you

01:03:46.360 know why was it up to

01:03:47.940 me to write the first

01:03:48.960 article in the new

01:03:49.600 york times saying it

01:03:51.160 last spring that we

01:03:52.720 need universal masking

01:03:53.880 where was he and

01:03:54.820 that's what i keep

01:03:55.440 thinking i don't

01:03:56.240 disagree with anything

01:03:57.080 he says it's just

01:03:58.140 what's absent from what

01:04:00.000 he's saying and right

01:04:00.800 now he's you know

01:04:02.180 where is he speaking

01:04:03.340 up about the harm of

01:04:05.020 on kids is he speaking

01:04:06.720 up about the first

01:04:07.700 dose strategy that the

01:04:09.840 uk adopted that many

01:04:11.780 of us proposed for the

01:04:13.240 united states states and

01:04:15.200 still do for michigan

01:04:16.280 yeah so look if you

01:04:18.480 have two life

01:04:19.360 preservers think of

01:04:20.280 each vaccine dose as a

01:04:21.940 life preserver and if

01:04:24.540 you give the second

01:04:25.400 dose you increase the

01:04:26.780 rate of you know

01:04:27.820 efficacy if you will of

01:04:29.040 the life preserver from

01:04:29.960 92 percent which is the

01:04:31.700 efficacy of one dose the

01:04:33.380 vaccine at four weeks

01:04:34.640 to 95 percent you're

01:04:37.060 adding about three

01:04:38.060 percentage points more

01:04:39.160 of efficacy and so if

01:04:41.160 you are rationing which

01:04:42.860 is something the

01:04:43.700 virologists don't think

01:04:45.100 of this is not part of

01:04:46.060 their science if you're

01:04:47.180 rationing a life-saving

01:04:48.180 resource how do you do

01:04:49.180 it effectively well you

01:04:50.500 maximize people getting

01:04:51.680 the first dose many of

01:04:53.280 us have been saying that

01:04:54.200 she's job even

01:04:55.460 osterholm who before he

01:04:56.900 kind of got tossed from

01:04:58.260 the biden covet task

01:04:59.420 force uh tool gawande

01:05:00.900 myself so many of us

01:05:02.840 have been saying this

01:05:03.680 and the uk did it and

01:05:05.100 guess what with the

01:05:06.480 same number of vaccines

01:05:07.520 per capita they're at

01:05:08.660 herd immunity now they've

01:05:09.860 got 62 percent yeah

01:05:11.840 they're there they had

01:05:12.800 they had like uh 10

01:05:15.080 deaths this weekend

01:05:16.060 they've got um cases are

01:05:18.320 way down they're now

01:05:19.560 down 98 percent um over

01:05:22.360 the last 11 weeks i mean

01:05:24.360 they're reopening uh

01:05:25.780 they're there and the

01:05:26.600 reason is because we

01:05:27.720 know from the data we

01:05:28.560 know from israel that

01:05:29.400 when you get about 50

01:05:30.460 percent of the adult

01:05:31.120 population vaccinated

01:05:32.180 you wait about two

01:05:33.340 weeks for that vaccine

01:05:34.480 to kick in you see

01:05:36.060 numbers plummet and

01:05:37.920 that's the road we're on

01:05:38.980 right now but to get

01:05:41.320 more people vaccinated

01:05:42.660 focus on first doses

01:05:44.900 michigan could double

01:05:46.020 their vaccine supply

01:05:47.220 overnight if they

01:05:48.420 postpone those second

01:05:49.380 doses by two months

01:05:51.040 why aren't we doing

01:05:51.480 that why would we not

01:05:53.120 do that i don't it's

01:05:55.100 so frustrating megan i

01:05:56.920 can't speak till i'm

01:05:58.200 blue in the face on

01:06:00.160 fox and in everywhere i

01:06:01.780 can and write in

01:06:02.720 articles and in the

01:06:03.800 wall street journal and

01:06:05.100 i'm not alone it's a lot

01:06:06.540 of people saying this

01:06:07.880 but dr fauci laid out

01:06:10.080 his arguments and he

01:06:11.160 has some far-reaching

01:06:12.400 hypothesis that maybe the

01:06:15.200 immunity could drop off

01:06:16.560 after four weeks of the

01:06:18.740 first dose if you don't

01:06:19.820 get the second dose it's

01:06:21.140 it's absurd we haven't

01:06:22.480 seen that in the uk at

01:06:23.760 all the data is in the

01:06:25.620 studies are here two

01:06:27.480 thousand people in the

01:06:28.460 moderna trial didn't get

01:06:29.560 their second dose and

01:06:30.460 they did great this is

01:06:32.480 how you think creatively

01:06:35.240 when you're rationing

01:06:36.100 the life-saving

01:06:36.520 resources and it's not

01:06:38.000 how the old guard

01:06:39.000 medical establishment

01:06:40.160 thinks we've got an old

01:06:41.980 guard at the fda and in

01:06:44.680 the medical establishment

01:06:45.780 and they're friends with

01:06:47.380 each other and they

01:06:48.120 affirm one another and

01:06:49.160 they are totally

01:06:50.580 dismissive of this and

01:06:52.440 so it's been very

01:06:53.160 frustrating why don't

01:06:54.920 what if you only get

01:06:56.120 your first dose you

01:06:57.380 know if they said okay

01:06:58.120 first dose is only just

01:06:59.320 to try to get to hurt

01:07:00.100 her immunity in every

01:07:01.360 state as fast as

01:07:02.000 possible would and that

01:07:04.360 happened and then three

01:07:06.060 months went by and now

01:07:08.000 we have more vaccine

01:07:09.520 would you then have

01:07:10.580 those people go back and

01:07:11.660 get a second dose yes i

01:07:13.680 do believe in second

01:07:14.500 doses because it

01:07:15.480 increases the durability of

01:07:17.920 long-term immunity so

01:07:19.880 it's not that any of us

01:07:21.480 who are recommending

01:07:22.140 focusing on first doses

01:07:23.260 are saying blow off the

01:07:24.360 second dose we're just

01:07:25.740 saying delay it to 12

01:07:27.320 months or 12 weeks

01:07:28.600 because you save more

01:07:31.040 lives right you give

01:07:32.200 more people one life

01:07:33.460 preserver instead of

01:07:34.560 giving two life

01:07:35.880 preservers to a group of

01:07:37.620 people swimming in the

01:07:38.460 ocean right makes sense

01:07:39.640 right and this is what

01:07:42.100 the old guard cannot get

01:07:43.920 over it's very disruptive

01:07:45.440 to the way that they

01:07:46.480 think about these things

01:07:47.700 vaccines and they come

01:07:48.940 up with these far

01:07:49.720 reaching hypotheses that

01:07:51.660 just are been now

01:07:52.600 disproven in the uk

01:07:53.860 experience so it's

01:07:55.680 well what about fauci

01:07:57.460 saying um kids are

01:07:58.780 going to need to be

01:07:59.380 vaccinated like that's

01:08:00.560 going to have to i mean

01:08:02.020 he didn't say the word

01:08:02.980 mandate but that's

01:08:04.100 that's what i think a

01:08:05.160 lot of people are

01:08:05.700 worried about

01:08:06.200 sure um by the way i

01:08:09.960 i uh i reached out to

01:08:12.180 dr fauci because i've

01:08:13.220 been so critical of him

01:08:14.560 and a private

01:08:16.280 correspondence over

01:08:17.320 easter you know i

01:08:18.420 came back from church

01:08:19.180 felt bad and i told

01:08:20.580 him look i respect i

01:08:21.740 respect you uh he

01:08:23.420 served this country well

01:08:24.440 in hiv i just have

01:08:25.680 professional

01:08:26.220 disagreements it's

01:08:27.600 nothing personal but

01:08:28.780 we used to have an

01:08:29.740 open dialogue now it's

01:08:31.380 all cancel and surround

01:08:32.940 yourself with people

01:08:33.800 that agree and so i i do

01:08:36.420 like him he's a real

01:08:37.360 gentleman everybody says

01:08:38.520 that but um it's been

01:08:40.880 frustrating that he has

01:08:42.000 not acknowledged the

01:08:43.040 role of natural

01:08:44.500 immunity in contributing

01:08:45.760 to herd immunity now he

01:08:47.660 says he did he changed

01:08:48.860 his tune with neil

01:08:49.640 cavuto a few weeks ago

01:08:50.660 but he's never talked

01:08:52.060 about it in fact there's

01:08:53.100 all kinds of quotes you

01:08:54.220 just read one where he

01:08:55.280 says quote we have to

01:08:57.320 vaccinate whatever the

01:08:58.180 number is 70 to 85 percent

01:08:59.520 in order to reach herd

01:09:01.720 immunity as a

01:09:02.360 prerequisite it's not true

01:09:03.880 a third to a half half the

01:09:05.700 country i think it's 55

01:09:06.800 percent of the country

01:09:08.340 has circulating antibodies

01:09:09.940 from prior infection study

01:09:11.920 in california two months

01:09:13.660 ago found that it was 38

01:09:14.960 percent of californians had

01:09:16.240 it had it um other

01:09:17.840 seroprevalence studies out

01:09:19.180 there say we've only been

01:09:20.200 picking up one in four and

01:09:21.900 a half cases that are out

01:09:23.640 there because testing's been

01:09:24.620 tough so a lot of people

01:09:26.300 have circulating

01:09:27.080 antibodies and gosh cbs i

01:09:29.960 think it was cbs this

01:09:30.740 morning i was watching this

01:09:31.620 weekend said republicans

01:09:33.500 are less likely to get the

01:09:34.760 vaccine and we're we're

01:09:36.380 going to wherever in the

01:09:37.760 midwest to figure out why

01:09:38.820 and some guy says look i

01:09:41.140 had the infection i was

01:09:42.380 pretty sick and i think

01:09:43.680 i've got natural immunity

01:09:44.780 so i'm just going to hold

01:09:45.820 off and i'm thinking that

01:09:47.860 is totally reasonable that

01:09:49.580 is reasonable right i mean

01:09:51.440 i would still get probably

01:09:52.640 one dose once we're not

01:09:54.720 supply constrained anymore

01:09:55.840 if i were him but i mean

01:09:57.500 that's totally reasonable

01:09:58.840 you got antibodies the body

01:10:00.280 doesn't care where they

01:10:01.080 came from a vaccine or prior

01:10:02.480 infection so this is the

01:10:05.260 debate that i've had with

01:10:06.420 dr fauci is please consider

01:10:08.100 natural immunity because it

01:10:09.260 changes the timeline right

01:10:10.780 if you believe half the

01:10:12.220 country has it then you're

01:10:14.120 less worried about the

01:10:15.900 remaining fragment that's

01:10:17.320 not vaccinated because half

01:10:18.700 of those have natural

01:10:19.580 immunity and so i don't

01:10:21.360 think this is one of the

01:10:22.200 reasons why yeah where we're

01:10:23.940 worried about vaccinating

01:10:24.800 our kids and i i've said

01:10:25.880 many times on the show i'm

01:10:26.680 not an anti-vaxxer i will

01:10:27.800 100 get the covid vaccine

01:10:29.280 and i've gotten my kids all

01:10:30.780 the vaccines that you know

01:10:31.720 they're supposed to get the

01:10:32.420 mmr all that stuff but

01:10:33.460 this one i i don't like

01:10:35.200 because for my kids who

01:10:36.540 are little have absolutely

01:10:38.200 zero chance i mean as

01:10:39.780 close to zero as you can

01:10:40.640 get of being seriously

01:10:42.400 affected by covid and yet

01:10:43.940 it hasn't been tested on

01:10:45.020 kids as young as mine seven

01:10:46.300 nine and eleven i don't want

01:10:48.080 to do it and i certainly

01:10:49.040 don't want their their

01:10:50.100 travel to be made

01:10:51.160 contingent or their

01:10:52.100 schooling to be made

01:10:53.840 contingent on them getting

01:10:55.720 this vaccine but what do you

01:10:56.820 think i'm you're somebody

01:10:58.220 who i trust because you've

01:10:59.320 you've been sort of forgive

01:11:01.420 me for putting it this way

01:11:02.460 but that's kind of how

01:11:03.120 it's gone on both sides

01:11:04.660 you've been somebody who's

01:11:05.420 been like lock it down

01:11:06.840 covid restrictions we need

01:11:08.100 more not less and then

01:11:09.240 you've been somebody who

01:11:09.880 said hey let's be

01:11:11.080 realistic on herd immunity

01:11:12.120 we can't stay in lockdown

01:11:12.980 forever we've got to

01:11:14.860 evolve our strategy as the

01:11:17.860 data comes in and that's

01:11:19.560 the humility that's

01:11:20.420 required of any good

01:11:21.340 public health official and

01:11:22.460 we've not seen it we've

01:11:23.360 seen policies instituted and

01:11:25.480 then they dig in and defend

01:11:27.060 it like it's politics and

01:11:28.460 you've got to constantly

01:11:29.260 evolve your position i i think

01:11:31.260 with kids we can look at i

01:11:32.900 don't think we're going to

01:11:33.520 even have to make this

01:11:34.240 decision megan because if

01:11:35.460 you look at israel and

01:11:36.940 again people love throwing

01:11:38.100 their predictions out i've

01:11:39.040 been watching some of these

01:11:39.800 networks and all these

01:11:40.620 doctors are guessing like

01:11:41.780 they're horse betting you

01:11:42.980 don't have to guess you look

01:11:44.660 at the preview of israel and

01:11:46.260 the uk once you get two

01:11:48.220 weeks after 50 of the adult

01:11:50.140 population vaccinated cases

01:11:52.620 plummet among kids even

01:11:54.380 though the kids are not

01:11:55.660 vaccinated because there's

01:11:56.800 less circulating risk out

01:11:58.040 there so i don't think

01:11:59.380 we're going to be there

01:12:00.260 but physiologically a 12

01:12:02.260 14 year old is similar to a

01:12:03.840 16 year old and i think if

01:12:05.480 they want to get

01:12:05.960 vaccinated i think that's

01:12:07.260 fine do you think it

01:12:09.140 should be mandatory no i

01:12:10.900 don't um and the reason is

01:12:12.880 people have good reasons to

01:12:14.100 say that they don't want to

01:12:15.020 do it they may have had the

01:12:15.900 infection in the past

01:12:16.940 um you know some people

01:12:18.820 generally have a distrust to

01:12:20.040 the medical establishment i

01:12:21.240 don't blame them sometimes

01:12:22.280 um i will say though

01:12:24.380 initially my thought process

01:12:26.240 was that healthy kids don't

01:12:28.620 die of covid there's

01:12:29.520 probably been less than

01:12:30.720 five cases in the united

01:12:32.840 states healthy kids under

01:12:34.500 18 have died of covid we

01:12:35.860 did this study at johns

01:12:36.960 hopkins um all the 233

01:12:40.340 deaths among kids under 18

01:12:41.520 from covid in the u.s are

01:12:43.380 kids with chronic conditions

01:12:44.500 we believe now there's

01:12:45.400 probably a couple that's

01:12:47.020 why i'm saying less than

01:12:47.700 five so i thought look if

01:12:49.000 healthy kids don't die why

01:12:49.960 are we vaccinating healthy

01:12:50.920 kids let's just vaccinate

01:12:51.940 those with chronic

01:12:52.520 conditions and so that was

01:12:54.300 my initial thought a

01:12:55.400 targeted vaccine policy if

01:12:57.240 the studies show it safe

01:12:58.480 well some pediatricians at

01:13:00.400 hopkins pointed out to me

01:13:01.500 that there's probably been

01:13:02.800 we estimate 10 000 kids of

01:13:05.380 this systemic inflammatory

01:13:06.820 syndrome and even though it

01:13:09.360 has a 99 survival it is

01:13:12.460 painful and these kids are

01:13:14.080 hurting and sometimes

01:13:15.020 they're in the icu so it may

01:13:16.980 be reasonable if the if

01:13:18.760 uh the vaccine safe and

01:13:20.700 younger kids to do it for

01:13:22.900 everybody but we have to

01:13:24.500 make sure there's a covid

01:13:25.500 risk out there if there's

01:13:27.000 no hardly any covid around

01:13:28.580 what are we protecting them

01:13:30.640 from coming up next we're

01:13:32.920 going to talk uh with the

01:13:34.040 good doctor about vaccine

01:13:35.600 passports and whether these

01:13:37.340 things should be required

01:13:39.320 and make sense for those of

01:13:41.720 us going forward but before

01:13:42.720 we get to that we're going

01:13:43.540 to bring you something that's

01:13:44.440 kind of related and that's

01:13:45.360 today's asked and answered

01:13:47.420 it's one of the features we

01:13:48.460 offer here on the program

01:13:49.320 where our listeners write in

01:13:50.780 and we try to we do our

01:13:52.120 best to answer the

01:13:52.840 question so it's all going

01:13:54.200 to fold into the same

01:13:54.980 subject matter today as

01:13:55.980 steve krakauer our

01:13:56.940 executive producer joins

01:13:57.940 us with what i know

01:13:59.320 today's question is from

01:14:00.700 somebody named hannah lay

01:14:02.140 it on us steve that's

01:14:03.260 right megan yeah this came

01:14:04.040 to us from questions at

01:14:05.440 devilmaycaremedia.com where

01:14:07.840 you can send your question

01:14:09.260 and also and get it answered

01:14:10.580 here on the show hannah

01:14:12.120 antall asks what do you

01:14:13.980 think about the legality of

01:14:15.420 private businesses requiring

01:14:16.740 vaccines in order to be a

01:14:18.160 customer she says she can

01:14:19.480 see the government leaving it

01:14:20.440 up to private businesses

01:14:21.280 decide who can be inside

01:14:22.800 their facilities and wants

01:14:23.960 to know your thoughts yes

01:14:25.480 well thank you for that

01:14:26.220 hannah um my my instinct

01:14:28.300 sadly is that it's probably

01:14:29.300 going to be allowed um i

01:14:31.700 think people will try to

01:14:32.520 fight it but i i don't think

01:14:34.460 you would succeed in saying

01:14:37.040 it's unconstitutional or

01:14:38.900 unlawful for them to

01:14:40.560 require it of us because

01:14:42.240 there was a 1905 supreme

01:14:43.620 court ruling saying states

01:14:44.880 can require people to um to

01:14:47.680 prove that they've been

01:14:48.400 vaccinated against

01:14:49.220 smallpox so there is some

01:14:51.340 precedent for this it's a

01:14:52.500 little outdated but it

01:14:53.780 hasn't been overruled and

01:14:55.220 the logic still applies and

01:14:56.520 i think the businesses are

01:14:57.540 going to say this is the

01:14:58.180 same thing as you have to

01:14:59.740 wear a shirt in our store

01:15:00.680 you know you have to wear

01:15:01.640 shoes in our store these are

01:15:03.100 all you know for public

01:15:04.200 health reasons and they're

01:15:05.100 going to say this is for

01:15:05.760 public health reason too i

01:15:07.360 think you know so far our

01:15:09.200 government has been saying

01:15:10.260 we don't want to do that

01:15:10.940 the biden administration

01:15:11.760 realizes this is

01:15:12.740 politically fraught and

01:15:14.300 that americans are really

01:15:15.140 sensitive right now to the

01:15:16.980 overreaching into this

01:15:18.100 there's civil liberties on

01:15:19.660 you know after a year of

01:15:20.600 all this so so far the

01:15:22.660 good news is i think because

01:15:23.660 i don't want to see these

01:15:24.400 mandates the government

01:15:25.600 doesn't seem inclined to

01:15:26.600 want to do it but private

01:15:27.560 businesses i don't know

01:15:29.900 and state to state it's

01:15:31.840 already turning out to be

01:15:32.660 a different story um in

01:15:34.540 new york we've got

01:15:35.540 something called the

01:15:36.140 excelsior pass um that's

01:15:38.840 already being rolled out in

01:15:40.100 case like reopening of

01:15:41.580 sports and other places are

01:15:43.580 going to be dependent on

01:15:44.860 your vaccine status so new

01:15:46.280 york of course because

01:15:47.380 we're so blue we're

01:15:48.360 totally open-minded to

01:15:49.480 mandating everything i

01:15:51.340 don't know i but you've

01:15:52.140 seen other states like

01:15:52.820 texas i know i think

01:15:54.600 mississippi's and florida

01:15:55.820 their governors have issued

01:15:57.580 executive orders saying

01:15:58.720 no you you can't do this

01:16:01.120 you cannot require a

01:16:02.120 vaccine passport for

01:16:02.920 people to enter your

01:16:04.660 private businesses and you

01:16:07.380 know that's probably more

01:16:08.400 promising and how this is

01:16:09.320 going to shake out the

01:16:10.140 new york times had a good

01:16:10.840 article on all of this

01:16:11.620 recently just sort of

01:16:12.860 laying out where

01:16:13.640 everybody stands uh

01:16:15.200 we've seen places like

01:16:16.080 israel they're already

01:16:17.120 doing it they have

01:16:18.000 something called the

01:16:18.480 green pass that will

01:16:19.860 allow vaccinated citizens

01:16:21.040 to go to restaurants and

01:16:22.020 other places so it's

01:16:24.120 happening um and it kind

01:16:25.960 of is coming down to

01:16:26.700 whether you're in a red

01:16:27.440 state a blue state or

01:16:28.700 israel i think this is

01:16:30.380 yet another thing that's

01:16:31.320 going to divide us right

01:16:32.440 like we've seen so much

01:16:33.980 so many people leave new

01:16:35.360 york leave california

01:16:36.560 because they don't like in

01:16:37.620 part the way they've

01:16:38.240 dealt with covid and

01:16:39.540 school closures and all

01:16:40.400 that and flock to places

01:16:41.940 like florida and texas

01:16:43.020 and if you're somebody

01:16:44.020 who's worried about those

01:16:44.860 cases becoming more and

01:16:45.940 more purple this is yet

01:16:47.700 another reason to worry

01:16:48.660 because uh i think it's

01:16:49.980 going to boil down to red

01:16:51.060 state blue state but at a

01:16:52.420 federal supreme court level

01:16:53.920 i think that these these

01:16:57.040 sort of passports will be

01:16:58.500 upheld we'll see we'll see

01:17:00.340 what states and the feds

01:17:01.480 decide to do but anyway

01:17:02.400 thank you for the question

01:17:03.640 hannah we appreciate it and

01:17:04.700 if you guys want to write in

01:17:05.760 with your own questions you

01:17:07.080 can do it at any of our

01:17:08.100 social media instagram or

01:17:09.780 twitter or you can email

01:17:11.420 questions at devilmaycaremedia.com

01:17:16.080 and in one second we're going

01:17:18.540 to get back to our good

01:17:19.280 doctor but first this

01:17:20.320 one of our listeners wrote in

01:17:28.120 asking you know how about

01:17:29.600 these mandatory covid vaccine

01:17:32.820 passports that some

01:17:34.320 businesses that the biden

01:17:35.340 administration says that

01:17:36.100 they're not going to do

01:17:36.580 that at the federal level

01:17:37.280 but some businesses are

01:17:39.180 already saying no vaccine

01:17:41.520 no entry i mean i realize

01:17:43.740 this isn't this is more of

01:17:44.860 a policy question but would

01:17:46.220 what would you advise

01:17:47.120 businesses when it comes to

01:17:48.260 that would it would you

01:17:48.940 make it mandatory that

01:17:50.040 people have the vaccine to

01:17:52.000 enter so i see the flip

01:17:54.140 side of it rather than a

01:17:55.820 mandatory requirement i see

01:17:58.260 it as if a business has

01:18:01.880 restrictions on capacity and

01:18:03.840 they want to lift those

01:18:06.380 restrictions with immunized

01:18:07.960 people they should be

01:18:09.160 allowed to and showing

01:18:10.740 proof of of vaccination i

01:18:13.460 think is reasonable if

01:18:14.280 you're going to go visit a

01:18:15.060 nursing home next fall i

01:18:16.660 think unfortunately the

01:18:17.540 entire discussion has been

01:18:18.660 swept up in privacy

01:18:19.680 concerns and in the

01:18:21.400 government overreaching and

01:18:22.920 using this information to

01:18:24.860 really limit who can go to

01:18:27.120 school for kids and other

01:18:30.780 things and i think

01:18:31.560 unfortunately there's a lot

01:18:33.200 of fear that these

01:18:34.100 passports are going to be

01:18:35.200 required for a lot of

01:18:36.980 things and i'm not sure

01:18:38.220 we're really headed that

01:18:39.080 way i think businesses that

01:18:40.560 want to nursing homes that

01:18:41.680 want to open up their

01:18:43.580 facilities to people immune

01:18:45.920 should be allowed to say

01:18:47.220 hey we're happy to admit you

01:18:49.400 if you can show some

01:18:51.440 immunity and by the way it's

01:18:52.840 not just vaccinated how

01:18:54.080 about having circulating

01:18:55.680 antibodies that should count

01:18:57.180 as immunity i think the

01:18:58.900 whole thing has been you

01:19:00.120 know we're still in this

01:19:00.940 fauci shadow of vaccinated

01:19:03.060 immunity is basically kind

01:19:04.560 of between the lines the

01:19:05.940 only real immunity and it's

01:19:07.160 just not true it's not

01:19:08.940 true so i you know another

01:19:10.180 incentive could be 10%

01:19:12.000 discount if you have the

01:19:12.900 vaccine maybe that maybe

01:19:14.360 that's a way of getting

01:19:15.240 that's more american right

01:19:16.600 like it's up to you but i'm

01:19:17.700 gonna make it worth your

01:19:18.380 while yeah let the private

01:19:20.660 sector work you know

01:19:21.560 walking around baltimore

01:19:22.580 there's all these

01:19:23.760 restaurants that are

01:19:24.580 shuttered and limited

01:19:25.400 capacity and most of us

01:19:26.680 that work at the hospital

01:19:27.520 aren't immunized and it's

01:19:29.040 like if we could just let

01:19:30.560 them know hey we're immune

01:19:31.680 they should be able to get

01:19:32.800 more business and you know

01:19:34.780 allow more people in

01:19:36.200 yeah and it would help with

01:19:38.120 the employment rate and so

01:19:39.100 on the economy what about

01:19:40.700 um there there is they say

01:19:42.880 between 25 and 30 percent of

01:19:44.740 the american population they

01:19:45.840 say around 64 million

01:19:46.880 americans who say they're

01:19:48.180 not going to do it they do

01:19:49.080 not want to be vaccinated

01:19:50.040 they may or may not be

01:19:51.340 anti-vax in general but

01:19:52.580 they don't trust this

01:19:53.600 vaccine it's too early blah

01:19:55.420 blah blah um i think a lot

01:19:58.140 of them are thinking i'm

01:19:59.740 just gonna wait for the

01:20:00.580 others to do it until we

01:20:01.960 have herd immunity and then

01:20:03.900 i'll be fine and i i don't

01:20:05.740 have to worry about my role

01:20:06.600 in society because if enough

01:20:07.700 other people do it my

01:20:09.600 objection to getting the

01:20:10.920 vaccine won't be a

01:20:12.100 problem what do you think

01:20:13.400 look i think everybody

01:20:14.560 should get the vaccine but

01:20:15.720 whatever happened to

01:20:16.620 respecting each other if

01:20:18.160 somebody chooses not to

01:20:19.520 get the vaccine you know

01:20:20.720 what megan i respect that

01:20:22.080 decision i don't agree with

01:20:23.620 it but you know that number

01:20:25.380 is shrinking the more and

01:20:26.380 more we can have a civil

01:20:27.300 dialogue and show people

01:20:28.800 that you can be liberated

01:20:30.160 once you have the vaccine

01:20:31.600 and i'm not that worried

01:20:32.680 about that group it's a

01:20:33.980 shrinking group it shrinks

01:20:35.180 every few weeks as more

01:20:37.200 and more people find

01:20:38.080 vaccination relatable when

01:20:39.660 their friends get it and

01:20:40.840 they see them liberated

01:20:41.820 because um remember half

01:20:44.300 those people or more have

01:20:45.920 natural immunity and it

01:20:47.220 it doesn't natural immunity

01:20:48.560 and vaccinated immunity

01:20:49.360 doesn't have the overlap that

01:20:50.380 people think the sort of

01:20:51.700 person that's uh untrusting

01:20:54.120 the vaccine is also the

01:20:55.880 sort of person who's been

01:20:57.540 out there with the kind of

01:20:58.620 the let it rip i don't care

01:20:59.780 about covet denialism and

01:21:01.480 probably had the infection

01:21:02.800 hmm that's interesting now

01:21:05.500 what about the question of

01:21:07.520 which vaccine my my doctor

01:21:09.380 said get whatever vaccine

01:21:10.540 you can get like it doesn't

01:21:12.280 matter but i am curious what

01:21:14.600 are your thoughts on which

01:21:15.380 vaccine i agree with your

01:21:16.880 doctor i mean the risk of

01:21:18.280 waiting is the risk of getting

01:21:19.880 infected and you don't want to

01:21:20.960 get the infection on the on the

01:21:22.360 one yard line of the

01:21:23.360 pandemic here we're almost

01:21:24.540 done 10 to 15 percent of

01:21:26.500 young healthy people like

01:21:27.600 ourselves can get these

01:21:29.080 long-haul symptoms that can

01:21:30.320 be disabling so between the

01:21:31.900 vaccine and getting the

01:21:33.560 infection definitely get the

01:21:34.580 vaccine and between the

01:21:35.880 different vaccines get the

01:21:37.000 first one you can by the way

01:21:38.440 probably all vaccines you

01:21:40.660 know this is unauthorized now

01:21:42.040 if we can just talk through

01:21:43.400 like probably all the

01:21:44.340 vaccines work well after one

01:21:45.940 dose right and probably any

01:21:48.160 vaccine if you give it a

01:21:49.340 second time boost it more and

01:21:51.340 if you give it a third time

01:21:52.260 even more so um i think it's

01:21:55.820 reasonable and if you had the

01:21:56.780 infection you can get just one

01:21:58.140 dose and on that front do you

01:22:00.380 think we are going to be

01:22:01.100 looking at annual booster

01:22:02.360 shots on this vaccine i used to

01:22:04.520 think so but now i don't think

01:22:05.840 so anymore talking to the

01:22:07.400 immunologist that i respect and

01:22:10.040 you know who these people are

01:22:10.980 right they kind of live in the

01:22:12.200 in the corners of the labs in

01:22:14.700 the hospital they're not you

01:22:15.980 know tv savvy and getting called

01:22:17.780 on to cnn and you know giving

01:22:19.760 the suave explanations but

01:22:21.260 they're the geniuses and they

01:22:23.220 tell me now that they uh think

01:22:25.740 it's very likely and maybe even

01:22:27.800 probable that you have lifelong

01:22:31.180 immunity i mean that's pretty

01:22:32.800 darn amazing and maybe even from

01:22:34.940 natural immunity too yeah yeah it's

01:22:37.180 pretty impressive so we're talking

01:22:38.560 about the fauci mistakes and you

01:22:40.840 know one of the things that people

01:22:42.020 were doing at the beginning of this

01:22:42.960 pandemic was taking out the

01:22:44.480 clorox wipes and wiping down

01:22:46.720 their groceries now i will stay

01:22:48.760 for the record i never ever did

01:22:50.200 that i've never i've i have

01:22:51.640 clorox wipes my housekeeper bought

01:22:53.260 them she's like you need these i'm

01:22:54.340 like i don't i've literally never

01:22:56.580 opened them up i just i have my

01:22:58.100 limits i will wear the mask in the

01:22:59.940 places i have to wear the mask to

01:23:01.520 take care of other people's fear

01:23:02.560 but i'm not going to do more than

01:23:04.420 i'm required to i'm just one of

01:23:05.600 those um anyway it's it was all bs

01:23:09.760 now the cdc saying there's

01:23:11.080 virtually no risk from touching

01:23:12.780 contaminated surfaces and the reason

01:23:14.620 this is still relevant is because at

01:23:17.220 least 50 percent of our schools are

01:23:18.440 still closed either full-time or or

01:23:21.280 at least part-time to in-person

01:23:23.740 instruction and one of the things the

01:23:25.920 ones that are open including ours i

01:23:27.760 have to do is disinfect all the

01:23:29.840 desks every day even my kids who

01:23:31.840 they're lucky enough to be in school

01:23:32.980 they have to put every single book

01:23:34.520 they have every single like material

01:23:36.660 every pencil every sharpener in their

01:23:38.980 back box and and take them up 12

01:23:41.120 floors to go learn because you can't

01:23:43.040 leave anything in a desk because there

01:23:44.380 might be germs on it take it out of

01:23:46.240 the school and then bring it back in

01:23:47.240 the school there i don't know even

01:23:48.580 understand the whole theory but can we

01:23:50.760 just admit that now that you you can't

01:23:53.840 get it from touching a contaminated it

01:23:55.500 seems like you have to somebody with

01:23:57.100 covid has to lick the counter and then

01:23:59.180 you have to come right after and lick

01:24:00.640 it next why are you still pretending

01:24:02.880 this is even remotely a threat

01:24:04.480 well look where's the humility in our

01:24:07.320 medical leadership to say we got it

01:24:09.500 wrong how many times have you heard

01:24:11.000 that we got a lot of stuff wrong you

01:24:13.020 know from the national guidance uh

01:24:15.200 the cdc got a lot of stuff late or

01:24:17.100 wrong actually most things they were

01:24:18.440 late or wrong on where's the humility

01:24:20.880 and i think right now if you're a look

01:24:23.340 back they adopted an influenza

01:24:26.240 transmission model and they should have

01:24:28.860 known that sars cov-1 or regular

01:24:30.840 sars was aerosolized virus it was in

01:24:33.940 the air wasn't on the surfaces so we

01:24:36.000 had the whole world do these deep

01:24:37.340 cleanings and pour 50 gallons of

01:24:39.000 alcohol on every everything right and

01:24:41.200 it's got a certain percent alcohol and

01:24:42.780 all this stuff and you're taking like

01:24:44.660 basically like disinfecting showers

01:24:46.680 like a hazmat you know team would in

01:24:48.720 the trauma bay and it's like you know

01:24:50.720 what it's aerosolized it's in the air

01:24:52.500 and that's why new york got hammered

01:24:54.020 right they got small spaces poor

01:24:55.580 ventilation elevators they you know

01:24:57.500 some people live in sardine cans there

01:24:59.800 and so you had all of this aerosolized

01:25:02.520 virus and we got it so wrong and so where

01:25:05.780 was the humility to say look we we got

01:25:08.500 it wrong you need to do that because

01:25:10.520 businesses are still out there you see

01:25:12.340 them businesses are still out there

01:25:13.740 scrubbing the heck out of these tables

01:25:16.020 and it's like it's not the influenza

01:25:18.540 model and by the way megan when i called

01:25:21.640 in to the white house and i had

01:25:23.680 relationships there from my work on

01:25:25.980 price transparency and the recent um

01:25:28.280 and this new book i have coming out so i

01:25:31.020 worked with them on price transparency

01:25:32.980 and i had relationships with the white

01:25:35.260 house um when the pandemic started so i

01:25:37.380 called in and said you know it this is

01:25:39.420 going to be bad what's happening in in

01:25:42.300 italy is not contained and it's going to

01:25:44.260 happen here and you know what i was told

01:25:46.460 i was told well we talked to dr fauci and

01:25:50.120 he thinks we're going to be okay and so he

01:25:52.580 was using the this influenza illness

01:25:55.120 surveillance network to look at

01:25:57.120 influenza like illness admissions to a

01:25:59.400 hospital well we now know that there's

01:26:01.560 asymptomatic transmission for several

01:26:03.240 cycles before you see a real blip in in

01:26:06.420 hospitalizations and so that's why he

01:26:09.580 didn't really appreciate community

01:26:11.600 transmission at large at the end of

01:26:13.260 february and um so that was the

01:26:16.460 fundamental mistake in appreciating the

01:26:19.400 asymptomatic transmission of this virus

01:26:21.180 and you know what's crazy is despite all of

01:26:23.820 the fauci mistakes i never see a warning

01:26:26.960 label slapped on anything he says or

01:26:28.940 writes never nothing he still has total

01:26:32.000 trust of the media gods who decide who

01:26:34.020 has credibility and who does not

01:26:35.360 and i have to say this is one of the

01:26:37.560 reasons why it was so irritating when

01:26:39.820 your wall street journal op-ed from

01:26:41.520 february caused such a such a do facebook

01:26:45.720 suppressed it they they labeled it and

01:26:49.040 said it it's controversial and it may be

01:26:51.560 misinformation how come we don't get

01:26:53.740 anything like that with fauci and how

01:26:55.320 comets only the stuff that may bear some

01:26:57.840 good news about this whole pandemic that

01:27:00.840 gets labeled and by the way like i said

01:27:02.380 you used to be i think a liberal darling

01:27:04.880 because you were saying stuff like let's

01:27:07.440 get ahead of this this is serious we've got

01:27:09.100 to take it seriously but fauci may be too

01:27:11.020 too much the opposite way now when you're

01:27:13.220 you know saying okay let's admit we've made

01:27:15.140 progress you get warning labels i mean

01:27:17.300 did you feel that at all did you know that

01:27:18.760 was happening i liked being banned from

01:27:21.080 facebook it's kind of cool it's you know

01:27:23.400 it's it's like it's a cool status and and

01:27:26.900 people read the article they're like oh

01:27:28.700 what is this and um you know not only did

01:27:31.460 it push the field but it's at least half

01:27:34.060 true i mean we're seeing herd immunity

01:27:36.080 take place now in april in parts of the

01:27:39.040 country and you know the other parts of

01:27:40.420 the country will be there in may and so

01:27:42.740 we didn't anticipate you know my model said

01:27:44.520 at the current trajectory we'll see herd

01:27:47.680 immunity by uh sometime in april but guess

01:27:51.260 what we had an outbreak among young people

01:27:53.560 with b117 the contagious uk variant so look

01:27:56.360 you know what okay parts of the country

01:27:58.300 will get there in may either way we're

01:28:00.340 going to have a great summer and people

01:28:01.700 needed that i don't know about your

01:28:04.740 question about fauci i can tell you that

01:28:06.520 when i listen to him i don't get anything

01:28:08.940 out of what he's saying i never have because

01:28:11.200 he talks in such general terms right like

01:28:14.140 perhaps if there's a change in the behavior

01:28:17.800 we might see an increase in risk to a

01:28:20.800 considerable level that's how he talks and

01:28:23.220 i'm like what are you so what are you saying

01:28:25.440 for the love of humanity like he's saying

01:28:27.960 nothing he's afraid to be right and afraid

01:28:29.860 to be wrong and you listen to this and it's

01:28:33.060 just like what is this i don't know what to

01:28:35.000 make of it i like so your your bio is going

01:28:38.480 to be updated in the way howard stern used

01:28:40.140 to have his like ban from terrestrial radio

01:28:42.800 ban from facebook you're totally right but i

01:28:47.180 have to ask you what you just said do you

01:28:48.840 think we're going to have a great summer like

01:28:50.340 what does that look like i think we're going

01:28:52.040 to have a great summer megan we're going to

01:28:53.460 be out there uh we're going to have large

01:28:55.620 barbecues on the fourth of july um natural

01:28:58.460 immunity is contributing to herd immunity and

01:29:00.600 we're starting to see it we've got a preview now

01:29:02.780 of israel and the uk and what we're seeing

01:29:05.560 there which is a wonderful suppression of the

01:29:07.920 virus and the circulation of the infection is

01:29:10.400 going to happen here people should go out there

01:29:13.020 do their part by getting their vaccine i'm

01:29:15.500 going to wait 12 weeks for my second dose

01:29:17.660 you know people may want to consider doing

01:29:19.520 that as well if they can fight with the

01:29:21.560 schedulers and um so i think we're in store

01:29:25.120 for a wonderful wonderful summer

01:29:26.940 and when the kids go back to school in the

01:29:29.300 fall when they go back to school hello unions

01:29:33.280 um do you think they're going to be in masks and

01:29:36.800 how long are the rest of us going to be in masks

01:29:38.620 well this is where the media is going to have a big

01:29:40.980 role because if they keep running fear stories of the

01:29:45.460 double mutant variant in california like some

01:29:48.640 alien off a spaceship and you know this

01:29:51.840 misinterpretation of the israeli study that somehow the

01:29:54.560 south african variant pierces uh vaccinated

01:29:58.640 immunity saw that just came out right and it's just

01:30:01.020 like give me a break it's eight cases in a country of seven

01:30:04.020 million and they're not even symptomatic that we can tell

01:30:07.380 from the from the study so um it's long and they weren't even

01:30:11.360 fully vaccinated and they weren't at that point

01:30:13.320 so it's like if we keep running these fear about the summer guess what

01:30:16.860 consumer demand is going to be timid we're not going to see conferences

01:30:20.160 conventions other gatherings plan because they're planning based on

01:30:24.320 consumer expectations and if consumer expectations are influenced by the

01:30:28.360 media then we're going to see groups like i speak at a lot of

01:30:32.120 conferences and and right now they're saying we don't know if anyone will

01:30:35.180 sign up if we schedule in september so a lot of it's going to depend on

01:30:39.620 public perception so i would encourage the media to put things in perspective

01:30:44.120 and stop putting dr fauci on every single day let him do his job he's

01:30:48.960 interview he's an interviewee 14 hours a day no wonder he can't keep up with

01:30:52.800 the latest um why you know shame on meet the press and face every single week i

01:30:58.280 gotta listen to the generic talk um you know let's let's hear from some

01:31:03.840 other real infectious disease experts besides one person he puts his pants on

01:31:08.020 one leg at a time like the rest of us and he just happened to be wrong on a lot

01:31:11.960 of stuff all right so here's my other you're good by the way you're gonna have

01:31:16.320 to go back to church this sunday and read and redo all that confess the latest

01:31:20.700 to your your priest i need forgiveness i do um don't we all amen um okay let me

01:31:26.860 ask you because you have you've actually you have some interesting thoughts

01:31:30.280 outside of just covet as well and you mentioned your new book it's called the

01:31:33.520 price we pay what broke american health care and how to fix it and i think one

01:31:39.900 of the things that jumped out at me in sort of the the list of things that you

01:31:43.520 talk about in here was what you call the revolution pointing out that western

01:31:47.920 medicine has adopted a reflex of medication to everything right to

01:31:53.240 everything and that there are alternatives and you're not like let's do eastern

01:31:57.740 medicine and we'll just meditate away all of our problems but you are you are

01:32:02.380 talking about how there are alternatives to surgery and pills to some of the

01:32:09.200 major things that ail us can you talk about that for a minute

01:32:11.540 yeah one of the best parts of working on this book the price we pay which comes

01:32:16.540 out in paperback um in a couple weeks here is that there's a revolution in

01:32:21.960 medicine and it's exciting and it's driven by young people and if you know

01:32:26.920 that mindset it's a social justice minded generation and they don't want to be a

01:32:32.620 part of this visit where you see someone for 10 minutes they come into med school

01:32:36.420 and they watch us see somebody for 8 to 10 minutes tell them exercise more you

01:32:41.700 know eat better and then take these meds you come back in six months and we say

01:32:45.960 you bad bad non-compliant patient and it's just like what are we doing that we the

01:32:53.180 patients hate this we hate it so they're designing relationship-based medicine with

01:32:59.280 a new payment model that's kind of a annual capitation from the insurer or

01:33:03.380 medicare or the individual and they're starting to talk about treating more

01:33:07.920 patients with diabetes with cooking classes instead of just throwing insulin

01:33:12.060 at them and treating back pain with ice and physical therapy instead of just

01:33:16.160 surgery and opioids and they're treating high blood pressure with better sleep and

01:33:20.760 talking about things that affect their stress instead of just throwing

01:33:24.900 antihypertensives at them and they're addressing loneliness look that's one of the

01:33:29.160 greatest epidemics that predated covid and was magnified during covid but look

01:33:33.360 at the chen med clinic growing all over the country now they've got 60 clinics and

01:33:37.340 they tell people look come in frequently we just want to see you we have a

01:33:40.120 community and they connect people and they're addressing loneliness so it's awesome

01:33:46.100 watching young people talk about predatory billing and price gouging as a

01:33:50.940 violation of our sacred public trust they're speaking up and it's just

01:33:55.100 beautiful and i was privileged to describe this movement hmm i didn't realize it was

01:34:00.880 driven by young people um what about the one that you you're one of the your items

01:34:05.980 was we should invest in research on environmental exposures that cause cancer

01:34:09.680 not just chemo drugs like what what specifically would you like to see because

01:34:14.860 that's something i personally try to block out of my mind because i just feel like

01:34:17.900 it's so impossible to stay away from all chemicals all smokestacks all phone

01:34:22.580 towers you know it's like you'd never leave your house that's right well the cool

01:34:28.220 thing so i'm you know my clinical background is that of a gastrointestinal

01:34:32.320 and cancer surgeon pancreatic cancer i spend most of my time now 90 in public

01:34:37.140 health research and have for most of my career uh the last the last 10 years of my

01:34:42.080 career at johns hopkins but people are saying look do we just need to be studying

01:34:46.760 new chemo drugs or maybe we can study the environmental exposures that cause

01:34:51.160 cancer my dad practiced uh cancer medicine as a hematologist at geisinger in

01:34:57.700 central pennsylvania in the coal mine region and guess what all kinds of

01:35:00.900 leukemia and lymphoma was was coming in the door that you don't see in other

01:35:04.540 parts of the country but there was no money to make this connection and we know

01:35:08.340 it's out there and if you've seen this movie called the devil we know or the

01:35:13.420 drama version with mark ruffalo is dark waters it describes the largest public

01:35:19.280 health study we've ever done of a synthetic uh toxin and they found you know

01:35:26.420 they did it over many years tons of money largest public health study it causes

01:35:29.900 everything it causes neurologic problems all different forms of cancer all these

01:35:34.320 bad medical problems now it's not one thing and that was one out of the 200

01:35:39.600 synthetic molecules that circulates in the human body of every american for life

01:35:45.140 these are these are forever molecules you'll never excrete them you'll never

01:35:49.500 metabolize them and so that had one happened to come come from the byproduct

01:35:55.260 of teflon but that's what young people are saying right now they're saying look

01:35:59.400 let's not just talk about laboratory research and by the way it relates to

01:36:03.460 covid and i make this connection in the book is that we put immediately reacted by

01:36:08.460 putting all of our money into laboratory science when covid hit we didn't fund

01:36:13.440 basic clinical research like answering the questions when are you most

01:36:18.980 contagious how does it spread how many people are asymptomatic do masks work and

01:36:25.160 so you didn't have any one not a single dime of the 40 billion dollars at the nih

01:36:29.960 answering those questions instead it was just a race to the vaccine which was good

01:36:34.520 by the way but it was unbalanced and so you had no answers on the basic studies that

01:36:39.940 could have been done immediately and as a result you had a vacuum of information

01:36:43.520 and opinions filled that and began this sort of political arguing about how this

01:36:48.220 thing spreads and stop it all right so we have to back up because are you saying i

01:36:52.420 have to get rid of my non-stick pan is that what is that my takeaway because i love it

01:36:56.000 it's so great to cook an egg in i hate the other kind

01:36:58.320 well i use the stainless steel or the um the the regular steel uh ones it doesn't work as well

01:37:04.420 it doesn't work as well it doesn't matter how much pam you put on there it sticks

01:37:07.700 well instead of pam i'd recommend avocado oil or peanut oil or something like that because i don't

01:37:14.800 think you want to use pam but that's a separate topic but you don't want to use the teflon don't

01:37:19.780 you and teflon is that's what we're talking about that non-stick pan that's so easy to fry an egg in

01:37:23.540 right that's right well and there's some other non-stick surfaces now that you can buy that are

01:37:27.840 not teflon so just make sure there's no teflon teflon's not supposed to be in anything now but it

01:37:32.340 turns out it was in a lot of fabric it was you know the 3m scotch guard and the so-called fire

01:37:37.200 proofing your couch that was all yeah wrong that was it doesn't fireproof and it just exposes you

01:37:43.080 to the c8 molecule oh my lord all right i gotta go look at that that's see i gotta talk to my

01:37:48.980 housekeeper about this she could be checking the tags instead of giving me more clorox wipes

01:37:52.740 she's my buddy she helps me okay wait i gotta ask you about um uh what was it that you were

01:38:00.120 just saying oh yeah the your pancreatic cancer uh history so one of the things i talked to with

01:38:06.940 my doctor which i thought was really interesting was i asked him the same question about vaccines

01:38:10.840 i asked you and he said as i said get whichever one you can it's all good and he said some people

01:38:15.820 don't like the mrna technology behind the pfizer and the moderna vaccines but he doesn't find those

01:38:20.700 concerns valid at all and he said and we're just talking casually so but you know you're a true

01:38:26.360 expert in this he said one day i think the mrna technology will deliver a vaccine for pancreatic

01:38:32.440 cancer would you take that you know so don't be afraid of this technology was his point but

01:38:36.920 do you think it's possible you think it's that revolutionary this mrna technology and do you think

01:38:41.980 it could lead to vaccines for things as dangerous and deadly as pancreatic cancer i think we're going to

01:38:46.920 see an aids vaccine with mrna technology that's going to be effective i think we're going to see

01:38:51.400 some other vaccines for infectious diseases malaria uh yeah i think i think for malaria malaria is a

01:38:57.260 fragile uh infection though so it does mutate frequently so it it's not we're not going to see

01:39:02.140 mrna vaccines for influenza for example they mutate too frequently by the way some say this pandemic

01:39:08.400 parallels that of malaria there's 400 000 almost half a million kids die of malaria each year

01:39:14.740 we're seeing an antimicrobial resistance epidemic take foot that's that's right in front of our eyes

01:39:20.860 that's going to happen it's not a guess what our next pandemic is going to be it's going to be these

01:39:25.220 resistant bugs but um i don't think i don't see it for cancer i mean cancer has been with us forever

01:39:31.080 and every time you hear about it that's something that's going to cure it turns out it's um it doesn't

01:39:36.360 account for the fact that cancer evolves and so the proteins on cancer cells change so you can have a

01:39:42.300 chemo and over time it'll be less effective so that's disappointing um sorry what are you saying

01:39:49.240 about the next pandemic it will be what a different form of malaria is that what you're saying what what

01:39:53.500 are you what are you predicting it's going to be super bugs um it is already charted out the who has

01:39:59.380 formal um met numbers on this it already kills about 100 000 americans a year and it's it's resistant

01:40:06.700 bacteria resistant to the antibiotics these bugs are mutating faster than we can develop antibiotics

01:40:14.200 to treat them and we do have situations now where patient patients come in to see me at johns hopkins

01:40:20.620 we cannot treat their infection with antibiotics because the bug is now resistant to the antibiotics

01:40:27.480 from all the overuse people who have yeah okay this is from overuse keep going and agriculture yeah

01:40:33.120 in agriculture you know some almost half of the antibiotics are used in agriculture for no reason

01:40:38.020 no good reason um so it's breeding a lot of resistance and so what's happening is there's

01:40:43.940 situations and we do this a couple times a year where we have to surgically remove the infected organ

01:40:50.340 because none of the antibiotics work it's c diff colitis as a results in the colon removal so this is

01:40:56.940 happening in front of our eyes i just did a ted talk on this it's going to account for millions of deaths

01:41:02.760 within 20 years per year and we've got to get ahead of it and the way to do it is stop taking

01:41:08.720 antibiotics for every little sniffle that's viral eat antibiotic free foods that moves the markets and

01:41:14.760 some businesses have now committed to that including chipotle and even mcdonald's and we've got to stop

01:41:20.780 the overuse problem it's a huge problem it's breeding resistance but you can't solve it you're not

01:41:26.720 talking about an individual basis so let's say i never i say i'm never going to take another antibiotic unless it's

01:41:32.760 deadly necessary it's incredibly necessary and all doctors agree you're going to die unless you take

01:41:36.900 it that's that's not going to it has not going to do much um for me if the rest of the people don't go

01:41:44.820 along with the same policy right 80 of antibiotics people take they don't need there's no indication

01:41:50.580 that study that's that came out of the cdc so i should make it clear antibiotics save lives i've seen

01:41:56.640 that as a surgeon but the unnecessary use of antibiotics and we all know what that is right you come in

01:42:02.220 demanding your pediatrician at gunpoint prescribes you an antibiotic so we got to stop that and the

01:42:07.800 food the agriculture overuse is a real problem and it's driving resistance so on a population level

01:42:13.240 we all have to do our part to address this but you but can you save yourself from this problem

01:42:18.820 by personally not taking a lot of antibiotics or not overusing them so the microbiome is the next

01:42:25.940 giant frontier of medicine and i love you can't but yeah the microbiome we could talk about that for

01:42:32.280 hours so here's the thing if you take an antibiotic it's like tnt in your gut and it's blowing up all

01:42:37.780 kinds of species of bacteria and guess what happens afterwards the other bacteria overgrow and you get

01:42:43.860 more inflammation and so there's clear studies now in kids that don't get breast milk so that changes

01:42:49.720 their microbiome where they take antibiotics as a kid they're more likely to have inflammatory bowel

01:42:54.960 disease ibd crohn's irritable bowel and this stuff is all well documented so we're trying now to promote

01:43:02.300 a lot of good practices by getting a healthy microbiome like when you have a baby hold that

01:43:08.080 baby you don't have to wash the baby off instantly okay that's normal bacteria that colonizes the gi tract

01:43:14.600 and the skin to skin time reduces the stress hormones in the baby and they have more controlled blood

01:43:19.840 pressure and heart rate and their their stress hormones are lower so we're encouraging moms to

01:43:25.580 hold that baby as long as they safely can do it instead of rip the baby away and the stress hormones

01:43:30.480 go higher and when you do that and you delay the cord clamping to get the baby more blood flow at

01:43:36.160 delivery when they're premature there's a direct benefit there so we can learn a lot from getting back

01:43:42.100 to the basics in health care and sometimes we have to just recognize that we've been doing too much

01:43:47.060 you know i had this woman on my show at nbc um and she had written the microbiome solution

01:43:55.440 uh forgive me her name is robin chutney i can't pronounce her last name but she's amazing she wrote a

01:44:02.000 great book on all of this and i i use recipes from it all the time and it made a lot of sense and she

01:44:07.020 was basically saying let your kids get dirty when you take a shower you don't need you basically need

01:44:13.860 to soap soap up your underarms and two other places on your body and that's it and she was

01:44:18.160 saying you don't have to use shampoo she doesn't use shampoo she was saying um oh she talked about

01:44:23.740 using coconut oil but she was saying only if you see dirt or just know that something has gotten

01:44:31.320 actually dirty do you need soap in in the shower at all and i remember saying her so um so so when my

01:44:38.740 i don't know if any of these like three or four year old son licked the scaffolding on the street

01:44:45.260 of new york city you know he's languishing behind me i'm like hey where's thatcher and he's licking

01:44:50.380 so that was a good thing that was good mothering on my part and she kind of agreed you know we were

01:44:55.840 joking but she was saying dirt is a good thing get dirty dispense with the constant hand sanitizing

01:45:03.220 pre-covid but still she was saying dirt in one's life is a good thing and we shouldn't be hand

01:45:08.600 sanitizing away every single thing that might get into the microbiome and make us more resistant to

01:45:14.100 infections and disease yeah dr chutkin i like her um i think her stuff is good we're learning more and

01:45:20.300 more and i'm constantly reviewing these studies i'm fascinated by them you know if you withhold

01:45:25.040 peanuts from kids remember that whole thing like don't give them any peanuts guess what then they're

01:45:29.140 sensitized to it then they can have allergic reactions later in life so you we don't want to

01:45:33.860 pull them away from everything and put them in sterile air conditioned ventilated hepa filtration

01:45:38.780 rooms the whole time it's good for them to be out there and um when they studied people from the

01:45:45.160 philippines these are fascinating studies megan they look at immigrants and when they come over they

01:45:50.760 the microbiome changes in the diversity of bacteria in their gut when they adopt the western diet

01:45:57.180 and the biggest ways to ruin your microbiome is not just unnecessary antibiotics it's

01:46:02.300 sugar added sugar specifically not the five sugar bound to fiber and natural fruit but the added sugar

01:46:08.800 and it's the processed food that stuff just feeds the bad bacteria and then parents come in saying you

01:46:14.100 know how could my kid have ulcerative colitis this is it's so random it's like yeah you've been

01:46:19.020 feeding your kid shit you know their whole life along with the rest of the society right it's actually

01:46:24.720 not that random at all right now before before i let you go because it's a privilege to be across

01:46:29.540 from such education and information um what else in my house do i need to get rid of immediately i got

01:46:34.800 to get rid of my damn teflon tan or pan whatever it is i'll go make sure um is there anything else like

01:46:40.140 that needs to go right now um i think it's good to cook with healthy oils that's one of the things

01:46:45.320 that i think the the biggest bang for the buck um you know i eat out a lot so i always try to ask them

01:46:51.140 what oils they cook with them and i'm one of those guys right in a pain in the butt but you want to

01:46:55.240 cook with coconut oil and the avocado oil and the oils that don't denature at high temperatures

01:46:59.780 i i don't think there's anything you need really need to get rid of you don't see teflon in the

01:47:04.720 modern day ingredients so unless you're buying a pan from a garage sale from 20 years ago and you're

01:47:09.940 probably okay what what not olive oil no olive oil is good when it's um natural as you know it's good

01:47:19.240 to eat it like when you eat it with bread but at high temperatures it denatures and it turns to a

01:47:24.280 different type of fat that's not healthy so olive oil is healthy but when you cook it at high

01:47:29.900 temperatures and you can look up every oil has this sort of temperature denaturing depending on

01:47:34.740 the temperature you cook at but most of them are going to denature and so it's not that healthy to

01:47:38.680 cook with it not as bad as cat you know vegetable oil and all that palm olive you want to cook with

01:47:44.720 you know coconut or avocado or grapeseed oil actual oil or is there like a spray form of that

01:47:51.780 like do you care yeah they've got all different versions spray and the actual oil oh that's okay

01:47:57.720 yeah look i love coconut oil i put it on my body when i'm you know at the beach i drink it i

01:48:03.460 um put it on the food that i cook so coconut oil is a great anything with coconut is great

01:48:08.820 doesn't it make you fat that's what they say i know people some people put coconut oil in their

01:48:13.480 coffee i'm like okay that that has to be a man recommending that because we i mean now that i

01:48:18.960 hit 50 i can't eat anything i can't eat at all anymore coconut oil my coffee for god's sake

01:48:24.320 that's a little much but um i'll give you the advice one of my 100 year old patients told me

01:48:29.480 megan the first 50 is the hardest

01:48:31.140 you know it's funny and just for some perspective i thank goodness also had a long living nana

01:48:39.980 she died at 101 and i will say now she had the first she was born in 1915 so the vast majority

01:48:45.820 of her life she lived a life of eating only natural ingredients that you get from the corner store that

01:48:50.600 would go bad after a couple of days on the counter and that's the way we're all supposed to be eating

01:48:54.080 now but i will say uh from what i saw the last 40 at least were processed foods she wasn't a big

01:49:01.220 drinker she didn't do drugs or anything processed foods she never hit the gym a day in her life

01:49:05.200 she was pretty crotchety so it's like all the things that we're told now never meditated

01:49:09.840 it brings me a little bit of hope i have to say on my bad days brings me hope

01:49:14.640 yeah good genes yeah that's right anyway it's been a pleasure thank you so much doc and i hope you'll

01:49:20.620 come back thanks good to be with you megan thanks so much

01:49:23.080 our thanks to josh rogan uh and also to dr marty mccary for their insights on today and then we're

01:49:33.520 going to go tomorrow or not tomorrow but the next show um with two people you may or may not know

01:49:38.240 their names are jesse single and katie herzog and they host a very popular podcast called blocked and

01:49:44.120 reported they are what i would call non-conforming liberals they're like glenn greenwald liberals who are

01:49:50.680 who push back on some of the crazy orthodoxy that's getting shoved down the throats of liberal

01:49:56.360 americans and um have pushed back on everything from like the ridiculous messaging we're seeing

01:50:01.280 in schools about how if you could just have good self-esteem you know you're going to make it through

01:50:05.480 life and you know it's all about just building little junior up into being a winner and taking

01:50:09.760 home a trophy as opposed to just building up some resilience that's probably not the best way of

01:50:14.840 describing jesse's book but you'll hear directly from him when he comes on and pushing back on some of

01:50:19.040 the anti-science messages we've heard about trans people and so on anyway you'll like them you'll

01:50:23.300 find them interesting they're very funny and they're up next thanks for listening to the megan

01:50:29.400 kelly show no bs no agenda and no fear the megan kelly show is a devil may care media production

01:50:37.140 in collaboration with red seat ventures

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The Megyn Kelly Show - April 14, 2021

COVID Truth, on the Wuhan Lab, Herd Immunity, Vaccines and Variants, with Josh Rogin and Dr. Marty Makary ｜ Ep. 89

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