The Megyn Kelly Show - Crime and Chesa Boudin's Recall, and Elon Musk's Twitter Plan, with Jason Calacanis and David Sacks

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00:00:31.100 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest and provocative conversations.

00:00:42.200 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.800 Two critical elections happening today in California and these are big.

00:00:50.860 They could send a very clear message to the Democratic Party nationwide

00:00:54.900 that people are fed up with rising crime, rampant homelessness and district attorneys

00:01:01.660 who let criminals walk free to re-offend.

00:01:05.320 So much sympathy these DAs have for those who break the law

00:01:09.260 and very little for those who are their victims.

00:01:13.440 One critical race is to replace the outgoing Los Angeles mayor, Eric Garcetti.

00:01:19.140 Today's primary is mainly seen to be between two candidates,

00:01:22.200 Democratic Congresswoman Karen Bass, and recent Republican,

00:01:27.140 but now turned Democrat, billionaire developer, Rick Caruso.

00:01:31.740 The other race, and we've been talking about this for months now,

00:01:34.200 is the recall election against San Francisco DA Chesa Boudin.

00:01:39.480 He's, I mean, to say he's a progressive,

00:01:42.860 it's like putting it mildly.

00:01:45.060 This is the guy, we've talked a lot about him,

00:01:47.460 who's the son of two members of the Weather Underground,

00:01:50.800 a domestic terrorist group.

00:01:52.360 They went to jail for being part of this Brinks armored car robbery

00:01:57.160 in which two cops and a security guard were killed.

00:02:01.300 And little Chesa had to be raised by two other domestic terrorists,

00:02:06.000 Bill Ayers and his wife.

00:02:08.080 Okay, so that's Chesa Boudin.

00:02:09.920 Shockingly, he doesn't really want to enforce the law against anybody.

00:02:13.080 And yet San Franciscans are elected this guy anybody,

00:02:18.060 Boudin is a George Soros-backed prosecutor

00:02:20.180 who doesn't like prosecuting crimes.

00:02:22.700 He used to be a defense lawyer.

00:02:25.380 He doesn't really like to pursue felonies.

00:02:28.460 He thinks homeless camps are fine and shouldn't be touched.

00:02:31.180 He promised not to touch any crimes like prostitution

00:02:35.000 or even public urination, and on and on the list goes.

00:02:38.820 Turns out San Franciscans actually have a problem with that.

00:02:41.840 They do.

00:02:42.480 My guests today have had a big hand in the effort to try to oust Chesa Boudin.

00:02:47.940 They are major players in Silicon Valley.

00:02:50.540 David Sachs is a successful entrepreneur, a venture capitalist,

00:02:53.680 who runs Kraft Ventures, and he's a co-host of the popular tech podcast,

00:02:58.760 All In.

00:02:59.560 He's also a member of the so-called PayPal Mafia.

00:03:02.980 Also joining us today, another co-host of the All In podcast,

00:03:06.680 Jason Calacanis.

00:03:08.780 Jason is the founder and CEO of Inside.com

00:03:11.820 and one of Silicon Valley's most successful angel investors.

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00:03:51.260 David, Jason, welcome to the show.

00:03:53.200 Thanks for having us.

00:03:54.040 Good to be with you.

00:03:55.140 So I live out here now in Connecticut, but on the Northeast,

00:03:57.760 and I've had this day on my calendar for a long time,

00:04:00.380 and that's nothing compared to what you guys have had

00:04:03.740 and how hard you've worked and waited for this day to finally get here.

00:04:08.220 How big is it?

00:04:09.280 And we'll start with Chesa Boudin, that this is it.

00:04:11.700 This is the day that San Franciscans get to decide

00:04:15.780 whether this guy who they put in office,

00:04:18.200 he ran against somebody who promised to be tougher on crime,

00:04:20.680 and they elected him instead.

00:04:22.640 They finally get their say on whether they regret that choice.

00:04:26.640 David, I'll start with you.

00:04:27.420 Yeah, this is – so June 7th is the day that we have the recall election.

00:04:33.160 And exit polling, all the polling looks like San Francisco is going to vote to recall Chesa Boudin.

00:04:38.180 I mean, he won election in a – he won his office of district attorney in an off-year election in late 2019.

00:04:45.000 It was a low-turnout election, and with ranked-choice voting,

00:04:48.260 he only got something like 36 percent first-choice votes, and he narrowly sweeped by.

00:04:53.140 Since then, he's implemented this agenda of decarceration,

00:04:56.980 which is to release as many offenders as possible.

00:05:00.680 That is his mission, and the result has been, you know, chaos and lawlessness in San Francisco.

00:05:06.340 We can drill a lot more into that.

00:05:08.380 And I think that people in San Francisco have had enough,

00:05:10.300 and I think they're likely to recall him today.

00:05:13.300 You know, lately, the press has shifted, Jason,

00:05:17.300 to the only people who really want to get rid of Chesa Boudin are rich Silicon Valley elites,

00:05:23.420 to whom homelessness is just – it's a blight on the attractiveness of their city.

00:05:28.700 That's really who's behind this.

00:05:31.360 And we've heard Chesa Boudin say, this is a Republican-led effort,

00:05:35.720 and also disparaging the police because the police union doesn't like him.

00:05:40.940 What a shock.

00:05:41.940 So what do you make of that?

00:05:42.920 It's Silicon Valley elites, it's the Republicans, and it's the police.

00:05:48.260 Yeah, I mean, the devil mixes the lies with the truth.

00:05:51.380 So, of course, anybody who is running a right-wing news source is going to jump on this story

00:05:57.780 because it gets ratings and clicks.

00:06:00.340 So, sure, you might get some Republican donations on the margin to a situation like this.

00:06:06.740 But the truth is, San Francisco is overwhelmingly Democrat,

00:06:10.500 and you can only vote in the recall election if you live in the city.

00:06:14.300 So it is not technically possible for him to be recalled, for the recall to be on the ballot

00:06:20.420 or for today to happen unless San Franciscans themselves vote him out.

00:06:25.040 And so the facts are the facts.

00:06:27.220 He's done a horrible job.

00:06:28.420 You don't need to really – you can just trust your eyes on this one, as Sachs says often.

00:06:33.540 If you were to walk through San Francisco 20 years ago, 10 years ago, 5 years ago,

00:06:38.400 and then during Chesu Boudin's reign of terror, it is stark, the difference.

00:06:44.360 And people are having their homes broken into.

00:06:46.560 People, you know, places like Walgreens are closing up shop here

00:06:51.380 because they just can't sustain, you know, operating in a city.

00:06:55.340 And it's really tragic because, you know, if you really double-click on what's happening here,

00:07:00.480 the crime is based largely on a super drug known as fentanyl

00:07:04.000 and its sister drug, methamphetamine meth.

00:07:08.440 And these two drugs are radically different than other drugs that we've seen,

00:07:12.440 and they cause people to live a really horrific existence

00:07:16.620 that is actually being, you know, extended

00:07:21.180 and being supported by the policies that San Francisco has chosen.

00:07:25.360 And I think a lot of the intent is good.

00:07:27.160 People want to be compassionate.

00:07:28.880 But anybody who's had somebody addicted to these kind of super drugs

00:07:32.100 and people who have been addicted to it themselves say the only time that they,

00:07:36.400 you know, get help and the backstop is when there are consequences.

00:07:41.060 So it's very sad.

00:07:42.060 It's a very hard discussion for us to have as a society.

00:07:45.120 But there must be consequences to people breaking into people's homes,

00:07:49.000 to people, you know, breaking into 20 cars,

00:07:51.240 to people, you know, having psychotic breaks on the street

00:07:54.860 because they're so hopped up on what really are super drugs

00:07:58.300 that we have not seen before.

00:07:59.640 And that's a whole other thing.

00:08:00.920 So I think the bigger picture, of course, is if San Francisco,

00:08:05.700 Siskins really do recall Chesa Boone today,

00:08:08.640 is that the tipping point?

00:08:10.260 And Michael Schellenberger, if he does win and he starts debating Newsom,

00:08:16.020 maybe we're seeing a tipping point where, you know, California, which has been blue,

00:08:19.980 maybe wants to be a little more purple.

00:08:21.500 Maybe they don't want these really far radical left policies.

00:08:26.720 And maybe they want to be more like Clinton Democrats

00:08:29.160 and maybe balance the budget and have some reasonable policies

00:08:32.200 that are actually effective for the citizens of the state.

00:08:35.580 That would be quite eye-opening, right, in a city like San Francisco.

00:08:38.480 And that's what's so interesting about this is you've got the bluest of the blue cities,

00:08:42.000 San Francisco doing this recall.

00:08:43.480 This isn't like, you know, in the heart of Ohio.

00:08:46.980 Some DA went a little too soft and Ohioans are rising up.

00:08:50.060 This is San Francisco.

00:08:51.820 And even the mayor, London Breed, has changed her tune mightily

00:08:56.040 when it comes to defunding the police and so on.

00:08:58.520 But, you know, David and I have talked about this before,

00:09:00.400 about I did a very long interview of Bill Ayers,

00:09:03.900 and I got to know him and the Weather Underground pretty well

00:09:06.800 in terms of their history and what they're all about.

00:09:09.320 So, of course, it wasn't a big surprise to find out that his son,

00:09:11.960 it's effectively his son, Chesa Boudin,

00:09:13.840 isn't much interested in enforcing the law.

00:09:15.640 And to say he's a bleeding heart is to make him sound kind and benevolent.

00:09:21.300 It's not really that.

00:09:22.640 It's that he cares more, to me, about the criminals

00:09:26.320 than he does about the law-abiding citizens of San Francisco.

00:09:29.820 Where is his empathy for the people who are getting hurt,

00:09:33.040 who are getting attacked, who are getting robbed,

00:09:35.440 who are having their businesses robbed so many times

00:09:37.760 that they can't keep the doors open?

00:09:39.220 He only has empathy for people, I would posit,

00:09:44.180 he feels ideologically connected to

00:09:46.800 because of his own family's history of crime

00:09:49.060 and his weird connection to this world.

00:09:51.440 That's my own psychoanalysis.

00:09:53.180 But even the very blue voters, David and Sam Fran,

00:09:56.420 are seeing it.

00:09:57.640 They're feeling it.

00:09:59.680 Yeah, absolutely.

00:10:01.300 And in particular, I would say

00:10:03.620 the sort of powerful Asian-American community

00:10:06.340 in San Francisco has really turned against Chesa Boudin

00:10:09.220 as a result of a number of cases.

00:10:11.400 There was a case of an 84-year-old elderly man

00:10:14.620 who was pushed down and killed

00:10:17.200 while the assailant recorded the whole thing on his phone.

00:10:20.820 And Chesa Boudin later said that the perpetrator

00:10:23.560 was suffering what he called a temper tantrum.

00:10:26.440 This was basically an act of murder.

00:10:28.480 There's another case in which an elderly Asian man

00:10:31.040 was sitting at a bus stop just on a bench

00:10:33.720 and he was kicked in the face by some sort of psychotic perpetrator.

00:10:37.860 Rather than punishing the offender,

00:10:40.860 Chesa sent him to what's called diversion,

00:10:43.320 which is basically a psychiatric treatment

00:10:45.820 where a therapist comes to your house once a week.

00:10:48.880 And he defended this on the grounds

00:10:50.380 that the family of the elderly man who was attacked supported it.

00:10:54.200 Well, they came out and said, no, we didn't.

00:10:55.880 This is not what we wanted.

00:10:57.140 So there's been case after case of assailants

00:11:01.080 getting away with not just what Boudin has called

00:11:04.240 quality of life crimes, like the ones you've mentioned,

00:11:06.220 but real acts of violence

00:11:07.900 where the perpetrators have not been punished.

00:11:11.080 There was a case just broken the other day

00:11:13.360 where a local reporter named Susan Dyer Reynolds,

00:11:15.720 who's done a tremendous job

00:11:17.460 sort of unearthing all of these facts,

00:11:19.720 there was a case of a cab driver

00:11:22.220 named Arif Kasim,

00:11:24.740 who was bludgeoned to death with a metal pipe.

00:11:27.000 And Boudin pled the case down

00:11:30.340 to involuntary manslaughter

00:11:31.740 with time served.

00:11:34.680 And the perpetrator's now out walking the streets.

00:11:37.320 These are dangerous people

00:11:38.640 who are now walking the streets of San Francisco

00:11:40.700 because Boudin refuses to lock anyone up,

00:11:43.440 even perpetrators of violent crime.

00:11:47.200 The jail population has gone down some 25%

00:11:50.740 since he took over,

00:11:51.860 which is just a couple of years ago.

00:11:54.140 More than that, more than that.

00:11:55.340 I mean, over something like he released during COVID,

00:11:59.340 he released 40% of the jail population.

00:12:01.680 And the crazy thing is he wrote an op-ed

00:12:04.540 in the LA Times saying,

00:12:06.000 I'm making San Francisco safer

00:12:07.960 by emptying out the jails.

00:12:09.480 That was literally the headline

00:12:11.440 of the piece that he wrote in the LA Times.

00:12:14.840 So he has this warped view

00:12:16.440 that somehow he's going to make all of us safer

00:12:18.380 by emptying out the jails

00:12:20.640 and not prosecuting anybody.

00:12:21.900 And it's a very bizarre view,

00:12:25.580 but he is not alone in this.

00:12:27.440 This sort of agenda of decarceration

00:12:29.620 has now been championed

00:12:31.180 by the sort of progressive district attorneys,

00:12:34.220 like you mentioned, backed by Soros,

00:12:36.160 backed by people like Reed Hastings.

00:12:37.860 You've got Kim Foxx in Chicago.

00:12:39.460 You've got George Gaston in LA.

00:12:41.280 You've got Alvin Bragg in New York.

00:12:43.100 There are other ones in Austin.

00:12:45.700 There's a number of cities

00:12:47.380 that have now elected

00:12:48.100 these sort of Soros DAs.

00:12:50.360 Soros, I think, realized

00:12:51.960 something like six years ago

00:12:53.580 when he created this initiative

00:12:54.860 that he could change laws across the country

00:12:57.400 by supporting candidates for a DA,

00:12:59.800 and it wouldn't cost very much money.

00:13:01.200 In relative terms,

00:13:02.300 he could effect a very big change

00:13:03.860 with not that much money

00:13:04.960 because people weren't really paying

00:13:06.560 that much attention

00:13:07.100 to these local DA elections.

00:13:09.280 And so on that level,

00:13:10.540 he was very successful

00:13:11.440 in changing the laws of the country.

00:13:12.880 But this sort of progressive agenda

00:13:14.880 of decarceration is it's a national agenda.

00:13:18.320 And Boudin is really just unusual

00:13:20.320 in how explicit he's been

00:13:21.880 about his objectives

00:13:23.020 and his aims in releasing

00:13:25.100 as many criminals as he can.

00:13:27.300 But this is something that is,

00:13:29.140 you know, people across the country

00:13:30.100 really need to pay attention to.

00:13:32.280 What do you think?

00:13:33.240 Yeah, go ahead, Jason.

00:13:34.160 Well, I was going to say,

00:13:35.040 you know, this is perhaps

00:13:36.740 one of the harder discussions to have

00:13:38.760 because we do have

00:13:40.260 too many people in prison.

00:13:41.340 We have many nonviolent offenders

00:13:42.740 in prison.

00:13:43.140 We have many people

00:13:43.940 who are in prison for cannabis.

00:13:45.800 You know, that is now legal.

00:13:46.920 And that seems profoundly unfair,

00:13:48.340 I think, to everybody listening

00:13:49.620 that, you know,

00:13:50.640 we are now selling cannabis legally,

00:13:52.800 you know, in Whole Foods type stores.

00:13:54.820 And then people who sold it

00:13:55.840 just 10 years ago

00:13:56.580 or five years ago

00:13:57.360 are serving 10 year sentences.

00:13:59.020 None of us want that.

00:14:00.100 There's too many people in prison.

00:14:01.160 And we do need to think

00:14:02.080 about who goes to prison

00:14:03.500 and then how horrible

00:14:04.620 our prison system is

00:14:05.740 and how we are not actually

00:14:08.340 getting people on a path

00:14:09.500 to have a sustainable life.

00:14:10.880 And the recidivism

00:14:12.460 is just off the charts.

00:14:13.940 So this is what is

00:14:15.760 so cynical and horrible

00:14:17.320 about Chester Boudin

00:14:18.300 as specifically as an individual.

00:14:19.640 You pointed out

00:14:20.260 the psychology of this.

00:14:21.180 His parents are literal cop killers,

00:14:23.260 you know, and radicals.

00:14:25.740 And, you know,

00:14:26.820 he's the worst possible person

00:14:28.780 to be addressing this issue.

00:14:31.300 And we need to put people in jail,

00:14:33.900 obviously,

00:14:34.260 who are committing violent crimes.

00:14:35.960 But we also need to think about,

00:14:37.260 hey, how do we get people

00:14:38.160 who maybe aren't committing

00:14:40.140 violent crimes

00:14:40.880 and who are victims of circumstance

00:14:42.800 or who maybe were selling

00:14:44.000 dime bags in the park?

00:14:45.500 Do we really want those people

00:14:46.820 to be serving 10 year prison sentences?

00:14:48.240 Or do we want to invest in,

00:14:49.480 you know, programs to get them,

00:14:51.280 you know, on the straight and narrow?

00:14:53.220 And that is the challenge here.

00:14:55.140 And I think that's where,

00:14:56.120 you know, the right,

00:14:57.200 it's not helpful for the right

00:14:58.320 to just frame this as only an issue of,

00:15:02.900 hey, we're letting violent people out.

00:15:04.280 And that's why he won.

00:15:05.980 I think the reason he won

00:15:07.540 and why he just does have some support

00:15:09.640 and this movement does have some support

00:15:11.200 is because we know

00:15:12.120 that our criminal justice system

00:15:13.560 has been profoundly unfair.

00:15:15.020 The statistics prove this over and over again.

00:15:17.140 And we incarcerate people who are black

00:15:18.880 more than we do people who are white.

00:15:20.240 The sentences are longer.

00:15:21.180 These are all refutable facts.

00:15:23.180 So we do need to have a very adult discussion

00:15:25.280 about all of these issues.

00:15:27.160 In this case, it's fairly obvious.

00:15:29.300 You can just trust the statistics.

00:15:31.860 He doesn't prosecute violent crime.

00:15:33.540 And that's just way too far.

00:15:36.120 And nobody wants to live in a city

00:15:37.640 where their kids, their families are in danger.

00:15:40.840 People are breaking into homes.

00:15:42.360 And the statistics prove that as well.

00:15:43.940 People are leaving San Francisco.

00:15:45.820 They're leaving California.

00:15:47.540 They want to be in states

00:15:48.480 that have a little bit more law and order.

00:15:50.340 And so hopefully today,

00:15:51.360 we can start to get to a moderate position.

00:15:53.780 The left and the right

00:15:54.460 can stop screaming at each other

00:15:55.780 and maybe just look at these

00:15:57.460 really challenging issues

00:15:58.960 and come up with effective policies.

00:16:01.400 This is not an effective policy.

00:16:02.800 There are policies on the right

00:16:04.060 that are not effective as well.

00:16:05.720 So let's have that adult discussion.

00:16:07.380 You keep mentioning the right.

00:16:08.340 The right really doesn't have anything

00:16:09.260 to do with this fight.

00:16:10.400 The right is-

00:16:10.960 Oh my God, it's on.

00:16:11.780 Of course they do.

00:16:12.640 They talk about it.

00:16:13.940 They talk about it incessantly.

00:16:15.120 They talk about Fox News.

00:16:16.120 Show me the liberal who's sitting there

00:16:17.560 being influenced by Fox News.

00:16:18.740 They may be watching it.

00:16:19.600 They're not influenced by it.

00:16:20.600 Well, I mean-

00:16:21.860 San Francisco is six points.

00:16:23.760 Let me finish my point.

00:16:25.000 San Francisco is 6.7% Republican.

00:16:27.880 6.7% Republican.

00:16:30.880 The Republicans are not driving this.

00:16:32.380 They're covering it

00:16:33.120 because they see their enemies

00:16:34.400 eating themselves

00:16:35.020 and they're enjoying it.

00:16:36.200 And they think they're right.

00:16:37.240 They think that their policies-

00:16:38.200 My point is that's not helpful, Megan.

00:16:39.580 Is that helpful?

00:16:40.640 Is that helpful?

00:16:41.060 It's news.

00:16:41.660 Who gives a shit whether it's helpful?

00:16:42.920 It's news.

00:16:43.540 We cover the news.

00:16:44.300 It's a Democrat policy

00:16:46.040 that's important.

00:16:46.480 I think it is helpful.

00:16:48.440 Megan, what you just said

00:16:49.960 is actually what's wrong with media.

00:16:51.700 No.

00:16:52.140 You shouldn't just cover this

00:16:53.720 because it's entertaining, Megan.

00:16:54.780 You should cover it with the intent

00:16:56.160 of actually finding a solution

00:16:57.740 and informing the public.

00:16:59.180 I said it's news.

00:16:59.820 Let me jump in here

00:17:00.840 because I'm used to Jason's

00:17:02.900 both sides-ism here.

00:17:04.800 Look, nobody in San Francisco

00:17:06.500 has been locked up

00:17:07.300 for selling a dime bag

00:17:08.300 since 1965

00:17:09.200 or something like that, okay?

00:17:10.560 In like 50 years.

00:17:11.760 This whole idea is-

00:17:12.280 I was talking more about Texas,

00:17:13.500 but okay.

00:17:13.780 Okay, fine.

00:17:14.900 But I-

00:17:15.520 This election is in San Francisco.

00:17:17.060 Go ahead, David.

00:17:18.220 Yes, it is.

00:17:18.960 It's a myth that,

00:17:20.760 look, we do have a problem

00:17:22.140 in this country

00:17:22.860 that we have a lot of people locked up.

00:17:25.440 But the reason we have

00:17:26.300 a lot of people locked up

00:17:27.100 is we have a lot of people

00:17:27.760 committing crimes.

00:17:28.840 And so we need earlier intervention.

00:17:30.940 Once somebody does the crime,

00:17:32.120 especially a violent felony,

00:17:34.280 they got to be locked up

00:17:35.200 because you need the deterrence

00:17:36.300 and you got to protect society

00:17:37.540 from a dangerous offender.

00:17:39.280 I think Jason agrees with that.

00:17:40.680 So we need earlier intervention.

00:17:42.080 And I think there are things

00:17:42.880 we can do to make prisons

00:17:44.520 more humane and rehabilitative.

00:17:46.940 I mean, we don't want prisons

00:17:47.900 to be gladiator academies.

00:17:49.720 You know, we don't want people

00:17:50.440 to be in fear of their life

00:17:52.460 when they go to prison

00:17:53.200 or fear of getting raped.

00:17:54.620 I mean, we just accept that

00:17:56.000 as if it's like some sort

00:17:56.860 of normal, you know,

00:17:58.100 occurrence that if you go to prison

00:17:59.620 that you should expect

00:18:00.180 to get raped.

00:18:00.760 We shouldn't allow

00:18:01.400 any of this stuff.

00:18:02.220 So we should absolutely

00:18:03.120 be reforming prisons.

00:18:04.140 But the way to achieve reform

00:18:05.760 is not simply just to release

00:18:07.740 on a mass scale

00:18:09.280 all these offenders.

00:18:10.980 And look, but this is, you know,

00:18:12.820 you're trying to both sides

00:18:14.260 a little bit, Jason.

00:18:15.040 But the reality is this agenda

00:18:16.560 of mass decarceration

00:18:18.100 is coming from one side

00:18:20.000 and one side only

00:18:20.960 of the political spectrum.

00:18:21.860 It is the radical progressives.

00:18:23.580 And the Democratic Party

00:18:24.720 has bought in wholesale

00:18:25.840 to this agenda.

00:18:27.000 And until we inflict

00:18:29.100 some losses electorally

00:18:31.020 at the ballot box,

00:18:32.100 the Democratic Party

00:18:32.940 is not going to repudiate

00:18:33.800 this agenda.

00:18:34.540 And that is what we need

00:18:35.440 to have happen right now.

00:18:36.580 Sacks, is it not correct

00:18:37.640 that the Republican Party

00:18:40.020 is very much in favor

00:18:41.580 of drug reform

00:18:42.900 and legalization

00:18:43.600 of a lot of drugs

00:18:44.420 and decriminalization of them?

00:18:45.500 I thought you were taking

00:18:46.100 this on as an issue.

00:18:47.760 I personally am in favor

00:18:49.380 of cannabis decriminalization.

00:18:52.000 But what's your point about that?

00:18:53.500 Well, my point is that

00:18:54.960 that is a big part

00:18:56.040 of the problem here.

00:18:56.720 is what's happening in drugs.

00:18:58.300 So I do think both sides

00:18:59.680 can come up

00:19:00.180 with solutions together.

00:19:01.380 It is not just that

00:19:02.540 the Democrats or the libs

00:19:04.620 want to release

00:19:05.240 everybody from prison.

00:19:06.580 There is a drug problem

00:19:07.880 that is at the core of this.

00:19:09.420 And if we work on that together,

00:19:11.460 Republicans and Democrats,

00:19:13.100 I think we'll see

00:19:13.820 a lot of progress here.

00:19:14.840 And this is, again,

00:19:15.740 a very difficult discussion

00:19:17.360 for people to have.

00:19:18.420 But there's a series of drugs

00:19:19.900 that do not result

00:19:21.760 in the pain and suffering

00:19:22.880 we've seen in San Francisco,

00:19:24.600 whether it's psychedelics,

00:19:26.160 cannabis, et cetera.

00:19:27.580 Those are going to be

00:19:28.700 reformed, decriminalized.

00:19:30.620 And I think we'll see

00:19:31.520 a much different world

00:19:34.740 if we could separate

00:19:36.120 these two classes of drugs

00:19:37.320 and really go after fentanyl

00:19:38.540 and really go after methamphetamine.

00:19:40.120 If you look at the number

00:19:41.080 of overdoses,

00:19:42.500 70, 80 percent of them

00:19:43.800 are coming specifically

00:19:45.360 from fentanyl.

00:19:46.160 This is a new phenomenon.

00:19:47.800 We didn't have this drug

00:19:48.740 10 years ago.

00:19:49.900 And this truly leads people

00:19:51.780 to a very dark place,

00:19:53.400 a life of crime

00:19:54.040 and then ultimately death.

00:19:55.120 Well, there's no question

00:19:55.820 that that's a deep problem.

00:19:56.800 But the Republicans

00:19:57.940 are focused in part

00:20:00.500 on stopping it

00:20:01.240 from coming across

00:20:01.860 the southern border.

00:20:02.680 And they get no help

00:20:03.440 from the Democrats on that.

00:20:04.460 They say, great,

00:20:05.340 let's work on it.

00:20:06.300 Why don't we stop it

00:20:06.880 from coming into the country

00:20:07.760 in droves the way it is

00:20:09.520 thanks to the cartels?

00:20:10.580 Let's tighten up our border.

00:20:11.740 And then they get,

00:20:12.340 no, you're inhumane.

00:20:13.760 You're a bigot.

00:20:14.620 You're a racist.

00:20:15.340 And they say, OK,

00:20:16.380 all right, so

00:20:17.100 everyone back to their corners.

00:20:19.420 Are we going to go

00:20:19.880 into immigration?

00:20:20.680 Are we going to go

00:20:21.120 immigration, Megan?

00:20:21.880 Because we can go there too.

00:20:22.680 We're really going to solve

00:20:23.460 the fentanyl problem.

00:20:24.720 We are going to have to.

00:20:25.940 But my point is,

00:20:27.000 even Ben LaBoltz.

00:20:28.480 I mean, where is this coming from?

00:20:29.860 We talk about the cartels.

00:20:31.280 The cartels are getting

00:20:31.960 the precursors

00:20:32.540 for all this from China.

00:20:33.560 And I think this is actually,

00:20:34.840 you know,

00:20:35.320 a specific strategy

00:20:37.020 by the Chinese

00:20:37.700 to have this drug here.

00:20:38.720 I don't think you're wrong

00:20:39.400 about that.

00:20:40.360 Yeah.

00:20:40.780 And I think that's another,

00:20:42.040 you know,

00:20:42.300 thing we have to think about

00:20:43.160 is the relationship with China

00:20:44.120 in relation specifically

00:20:45.220 to, you know,

00:20:47.300 this horrible phenomenon

00:20:49.600 that's going on

00:20:50.260 that we have not seen before.

00:20:51.480 When we had heroin addicts

00:20:52.440 for a long time.

00:20:53.920 We were so reluctant

00:20:55.340 to condemn them

00:20:56.120 and to make them pay

00:20:56.840 for any of the things

00:20:57.440 they're doing to us

00:20:58.740 because we decided

00:21:00.160 to form this weird

00:21:00.940 economic partnership

00:21:01.840 with them,

00:21:02.460 both at the sort of

00:21:03.320 private level

00:21:03.900 and the government level.

00:21:04.840 And we sold our souls.

00:21:06.640 You know,

00:21:06.760 now we're in a tough position

00:21:08.240 to wiggle out

00:21:08.780 of the relationship.

00:21:09.540 The wiggle we must

00:21:10.360 because these are not ethical.

00:21:12.540 This is not an ethical country.

00:21:13.960 And we shouldn't allow them

00:21:14.940 to have this amount

00:21:15.520 of influence on us.

00:21:16.620 Now we're in agreement, Megan.

00:21:18.360 What's that?

00:21:18.720 Yeah, now there's always points.

00:21:20.480 The Chinese know their history

00:21:22.640 and there was a period,

00:21:24.860 what they call

00:21:25.620 the century of humiliation

00:21:26.640 where we had these things

00:21:28.040 called the opium wars going on.

00:21:29.800 And the Chinese blame the West

00:21:32.400 and the United States

00:21:33.620 in particular

00:21:34.160 for the century of humiliation

00:21:36.620 and these opium wars

00:21:38.020 in which as many as something

00:21:39.300 like 25% of the Chinese population

00:21:41.480 was actually addicted to opium.

00:21:43.660 So you could look

00:21:44.900 at what's happening here

00:21:45.780 as a certain kind of payback

00:21:46.980 where they've produced these,

00:21:48.740 like you said,

00:21:49.300 fentanyl precursors.

00:21:50.680 They go to Mexico,

00:21:51.780 they get turned into the product,

00:21:53.360 smuggled across the border,

00:21:54.580 and then they're,

00:21:55.780 you know,

00:21:55.920 it's addicting,

00:21:56.700 you know,

00:21:57.200 huge numbers of people

00:21:58.080 in our city,

00:21:59.260 something like 100,000 plus

00:22:00.480 fentanyl deaths every year.

00:22:01.900 We can all agree

00:22:02.580 that's a huge problem,

00:22:03.460 but what we need

00:22:04.440 are for these democratic officials

00:22:06.260 to stop being useful idiots

00:22:07.720 for the Chinese Communist Party.

00:22:09.420 And they are allowing

00:22:10.820 these open drug scenes

00:22:12.320 in our cities.

00:22:13.680 We have these,

00:22:14.480 you know,

00:22:15.560 open drug marketplaces

00:22:16.800 where you've got people

00:22:18.240 who are so sick with addiction

00:22:19.440 that they are now living

00:22:20.440 in these drug marketplaces

00:22:22.220 and openly using.

00:22:24.140 And you have democratic DAs

00:22:25.900 and mayors

00:22:26.480 doing absolutely nothing about it.

00:22:28.060 They refuse to enforce the law.

00:22:30.240 And that is where we need to start

00:22:31.900 is enforcing the law

00:22:32.900 in these cities,

00:22:33.760 cleaning up these homeless encampments

00:22:36.020 and open drug scenes.

00:22:36.940 I mean,

00:22:37.660 we're conflating a homeless problem,

00:22:39.980 which was a real problem

00:22:41.340 and still is

00:22:42.520 with an addiction problem.

00:22:43.880 And, you know,

00:22:44.520 to call what's happening

00:22:45.540 in the Tenderloin

00:22:46.380 a homelessness problem

00:22:47.500 when there are plenty of beds

00:22:48.900 for everybody

00:22:49.540 and everybody who comes here

00:22:51.300 gets $800 to $1,000,

00:22:53.140 you know,

00:22:53.580 in welfare basically

00:22:54.460 and a bed

00:22:55.500 is actually,

00:22:57.820 you know,

00:22:58.100 a big part of the problem.

00:22:59.180 We're framing this

00:22:59.740 as a homeless

00:23:00.260 and an equity problem

00:23:01.080 when it's just really

00:23:01.760 an addiction problem

00:23:02.700 and mental health.

00:23:04.000 And those two things

00:23:05.200 are in a,

00:23:06.500 you know,

00:23:06.720 particularly

00:23:07.280 horrible dance

00:23:08.900 because if you have

00:23:10.000 mental health issues

00:23:10.800 and you self-medicate

00:23:11.620 with something like fentanyl

00:23:12.680 or if you take too much fentanyl,

00:23:14.660 you will have

00:23:15.040 mental health problems.

00:23:16.180 And so it's pretty intractable

00:23:18.180 until you start

00:23:19.540 arresting the dealers

00:23:20.800 and there are

00:23:21.660 some consequence.

00:23:22.740 And listen,

00:23:23.140 you don't want to make

00:23:23.880 addiction a crime.

00:23:25.720 You want to treat it

00:23:26.700 as a healthcare problem,

00:23:27.400 of course,

00:23:27.820 but there has to be

00:23:28.860 some backstop.

00:23:29.520 And if you talk to anybody

00:23:30.520 who has a child

00:23:31.480 who is addicted

00:23:32.860 or a brother or sister

00:23:33.980 and you gave them

00:23:35.140 the choice,

00:23:35.900 would you like us

00:23:36.500 to leave your child

00:23:37.420 on the street

00:23:37.920 of San Francisco

00:23:38.620 taking drugs

00:23:39.400 and not arrest them?

00:23:40.160 Or would you like us

00:23:40.800 to arrest your child

00:23:41.660 for using fentanyl

00:23:43.340 or for selling fentanyl?

00:23:44.640 They would all pick the latter.

00:23:46.300 And so why would we not,

00:23:48.000 the people who are most impacted,

00:23:49.360 the parents,

00:23:49.920 the family members,

00:23:50.800 they would rather see

00:23:52.400 their own children,

00:23:54.140 their own siblings

00:23:55.120 go to jail

00:23:56.160 as horrible as that is

00:23:57.460 versus the horror

00:23:58.920 of living on the street

00:23:59.820 and living as an addict.

00:24:00.780 And I think that's

00:24:01.780 very eye-opening

00:24:02.420 once you frame it

00:24:03.120 in that way,

00:24:03.880 which is there must be

00:24:05.020 a consequence

00:24:05.560 in order for folks

00:24:06.480 to go to rehab.

00:24:07.200 And that really,

00:24:08.520 you know,

00:24:08.780 I was taken by

00:24:09.600 Michael Schellenberger

00:24:10.780 who is running

00:24:11.360 as an independent

00:24:12.340 here in California

00:24:13.020 for governor.

00:24:14.260 You know,

00:24:14.400 I think he's got

00:24:15.440 the right idea there,

00:24:16.260 which is,

00:24:17.020 you know,

00:24:17.500 if you're on the street

00:24:18.540 and you're using,

00:24:20.320 it's one thing

00:24:20.980 if you're in your house

00:24:21.720 and you're using.

00:24:22.400 I think,

00:24:22.840 listen, fine.

00:24:24.360 But then when you're

00:24:24.980 on the street

00:24:25.380 and you start committing crimes,

00:24:26.560 that's when we have a problem

00:24:27.500 and you have to choose.

00:24:28.560 Are you going to go

00:24:29.260 into treatment

00:24:31.300 or you're going

00:24:32.300 to go to jail?

00:24:32.900 And when faced with that,

00:24:34.320 somebody who's suffering,

00:24:35.460 you know,

00:24:35.680 some number of them

00:24:36.400 will make the right decision

00:24:37.200 to go into treatment.

00:24:39.960 Another piece of it

00:24:40.600 is what we do

00:24:41.460 once people are done

00:24:42.580 with jail,

00:24:43.460 which is basically

00:24:44.280 close off all options

00:24:45.300 of employment to them.

00:24:46.320 It's basically

00:24:47.020 your sin follows you

00:24:48.340 around forever

00:24:48.940 in a way that leads

00:24:50.340 you to sin again

00:24:51.040 and, you know,

00:24:52.020 to recommit another crime.

00:24:54.160 And we do have

00:24:55.020 to take a hard look

00:24:55.700 at how we hold

00:24:57.340 the criminal record

00:24:58.440 against people

00:24:59.060 in state after state

00:24:59.940 after state

00:25:00.420 forevermore

00:25:01.660 because it doesn't

00:25:02.540 really help society

00:25:03.280 to make these people

00:25:03.940 totally unemployable

00:25:05.040 if they have any

00:25:05.780 sort of blight

00:25:06.540 on their record.

00:25:08.660 I mean,

00:25:09.000 I've seen that

00:25:09.580 in situations

00:25:11.360 that are very close to home

00:25:12.400 and I've seen

00:25:13.780 how it can impact

00:25:14.420 somebody who just

00:25:15.080 got addicted

00:25:15.580 and then got swept up

00:25:16.900 into the criminal

00:25:17.300 justice system

00:25:17.980 and then before you know it,

00:25:19.100 their entire life

00:25:19.640 is completely blown

00:25:20.600 to smithereens

00:25:21.280 forever,

00:25:22.780 forever.

00:25:24.700 Okay,

00:25:25.080 so back to

00:25:26.220 the situation

00:25:27.100 in San Francisco

00:25:27.600 because I do want

00:25:28.420 to spend a little bit

00:25:28.840 more time

00:25:29.180 on the specifics there.

00:25:30.560 So a lot of the people

00:25:31.320 who are involved

00:25:31.880 in the San Francisco

00:25:33.800 recall of Chesa Boudin

00:25:34.960 and the one

00:25:35.860 that's happening

00:25:36.260 in L.A.

00:25:37.120 as well

00:25:37.660 are former prosecutors

00:25:39.020 who worked

00:25:40.260 with the prosecutor

00:25:42.100 at issue

00:25:42.500 with Chesa Boudin

00:25:43.320 and with Gascon

00:25:44.100 over in L.A.

00:25:46.620 saying,

00:25:47.320 this is,

00:25:48.320 actually,

00:25:48.640 here's Brooke Jenkins,

00:25:49.720 she's a former prosecutor

00:25:50.580 for Chesa Boudin

00:25:51.380 in his office

00:25:52.180 and she's now

00:25:52.880 a volunteer spokeswoman

00:25:53.780 for the recall

00:25:54.360 saying,

00:25:54.780 it will be Democrats

00:25:56.660 that vote him out.

00:25:57.920 If he goes,

00:25:59.180 it'll be Democrats

00:25:59.740 that vote him out.

00:26:01.040 And if you look

00:26:01.960 at the numbers,

00:26:03.120 it's going to be,

00:26:04.180 I mean,

00:26:04.340 I'm sure there's 6.7%

00:26:05.740 of Republicans

00:26:06.240 want him gone too,

00:26:07.280 but the numbers

00:26:08.160 do not bode well

00:26:09.140 for him today

00:26:10.640 or prior to today.

00:26:11.660 It seems like most

00:26:12.260 of the city is very upset.

00:26:14.260 Only 65%

00:26:15.260 say

00:26:16.380 that they feel,

00:26:18.960 let me see,

00:26:19.560 oh,

00:26:19.720 65% say they feel

00:26:21.440 less safe right now

00:26:22.540 than they did

00:26:23.740 in 2019.

00:26:24.880 2019 was actually

00:26:25.840 a very good year

00:26:27.000 for San Francisco

00:26:27.560 when it comes

00:26:27.980 to the crime stats.

00:26:29.300 73% say

00:26:30.860 they want arrests

00:26:31.860 for minor property crimes

00:26:33.300 like car break-ins,

00:26:34.420 which apparently

00:26:34.800 were everywhere

00:26:35.240 right now in your city,

00:26:36.260 and for shoplifting.

00:26:37.480 They don't agree

00:26:37.980 with this,

00:26:38.980 you know,

00:26:39.500 sort of,

00:26:39.900 oh,

00:26:40.040 I'm not going to go

00:26:40.480 after this sort

00:26:40.980 of lifestyle crimes

00:26:41.880 or whatever he calls them.

00:26:43.800 66% favor

00:26:45.140 forcing drug users

00:26:46.220 who are at risk

00:26:47.340 to themselves

00:26:48.060 into treatment,

00:26:49.060 to your point

00:26:49.460 a minute ago,

00:26:49.920 Jason,

00:26:50.100 68% say

00:26:51.860 homelessness

00:26:52.480 is what they like

00:26:54.100 the least

00:26:54.940 about living

00:26:55.900 in San Francisco.

00:26:57.700 Policing

00:26:58.220 is the number one area

00:26:59.600 the voters want

00:27:00.540 to see more spending

00:27:02.160 in,

00:27:02.540 at least 44%

00:27:03.900 of these.

00:27:05.000 So,

00:27:05.340 and the latest polling

00:27:06.280 by this group,

00:27:07.620 again,

00:27:07.840 this is by

00:27:08.320 the San Francisco Standard,

00:27:10.160 found that

00:27:10.660 it was

00:27:12.540 57% of the voters

00:27:13.960 say they do support

00:27:15.000 this recall.

00:27:15.940 So the voters

00:27:16.640 are unhappy.

00:27:17.680 They're really unhappy.

00:27:18.680 And it looks

00:27:19.600 pretty good

00:27:20.200 for the recall.

00:27:21.000 However,

00:27:21.980 however,

00:27:22.600 what do you,

00:27:22.960 what do you make

00:27:23.380 a San Francisco Chronicle,

00:27:24.460 the editorial board

00:27:25.240 opposing it

00:27:26.040 and saying as follows,

00:27:27.640 recalls alleged

00:27:28.380 a last ditch tool

00:27:29.600 for emergencies,

00:27:30.320 not for buyers remorse.

00:27:32.740 And San Franciscans

00:27:33.900 should respond accordingly.

00:27:35.480 You know,

00:27:35.900 they put them in office.

00:27:37.160 This isn't

00:27:37.940 an emergency.

00:27:39.500 You know,

00:27:39.900 you have a,

00:27:40.660 a duly scheduled

00:27:42.200 election coming up

00:27:43.320 in a year or two.

00:27:44.580 You wait for that.

00:27:46.300 What do you make of it,

00:27:46.860 David?

00:27:47.640 I don't think we can wait.

00:27:49.140 I think it really

00:27:49.620 is an emergency.

00:27:50.700 I mean,

00:27:50.860 you've got violent

00:27:51.960 repeat offenders

00:27:52.860 who are being let go

00:27:53.620 every day.

00:27:54.480 You've got Chase Boudin

00:27:55.820 dismantling the DA's office.

00:27:57.780 The first thing he did

00:27:58.680 when he came in

00:27:59.480 in January of 2020

00:28:00.920 is he fired

00:28:01.680 seven veteran prosecutors

00:28:02.940 that he had

00:28:04.060 repeatedly

00:28:04.720 crossed swords with

00:28:05.900 when he was

00:28:06.500 the public defender.

00:28:07.360 So he,

00:28:07.780 first of all,

00:28:08.520 got rid of the,

00:28:09.440 the DA's

00:28:10.540 who actually know

00:28:11.020 how to prosecute cases.

00:28:12.220 Since then,

00:28:13.180 something like 30%

00:28:14.020 of the office

00:28:14.480 has just quit

00:28:15.020 on their own

00:28:15.600 because they're so disgusted

00:28:16.840 with the way

00:28:17.560 that he's run the office

00:28:18.540 and the way

00:28:18.840 that he's interfered

00:28:19.980 in their cases

00:28:20.660 to plead down charges.

00:28:22.660 So every single month

00:28:24.320 that goes by

00:28:25.280 that Chase Boudin

00:28:26.300 is DA,

00:28:27.500 the,

00:28:28.020 this,

00:28:28.360 that the,

00:28:28.940 that office

00:28:29.520 basically continues

00:28:30.580 to degrade.

00:28:31.820 And it's not like

00:28:32.900 you can just

00:28:33.340 put a DA's office

00:28:34.520 back together again

00:28:35.380 very easily.

00:28:36.380 I mean,

00:28:36.560 these people,

00:28:37.360 these veteran prosecutors

00:28:38.140 have gone on

00:28:38.860 to take other jobs.

00:28:40.900 So whoever

00:28:41.380 replaces Boudin

00:28:42.500 is going to have

00:28:42.980 a really tough

00:28:44.240 task ahead of them,

00:28:45.700 which is to reconstitute

00:28:47.080 an effective DA's office.

00:28:49.280 So no,

00:28:49.560 we cannot,

00:28:50.400 the people of San Francisco

00:28:51.040 cannot wait.

00:28:52.440 The situation

00:28:53.300 in the city

00:28:54.160 is dangerous

00:28:54.780 and it's going to continue

00:28:56.180 to get worse

00:28:56.800 unless we get a change.

00:28:58.320 He says,

00:28:58.780 Chesa Boudin says,

00:28:59.720 among other things,

00:29:00.500 that the cops

00:29:01.140 are doing this to him

00:29:01.900 on purpose,

00:29:02.920 that the cops

00:29:03.460 are holding back

00:29:04.540 essentially to make him

00:29:06.380 look bad

00:29:06.820 and to drive up

00:29:07.600 crime numbers

00:29:08.120 so that he can be ousted.

00:29:09.200 Do you think

00:29:10.600 the voters

00:29:10.980 will find that persuasive,

00:29:12.320 Jason?

00:29:12.660 I mean,

00:29:12.840 it seems to me

00:29:13.660 even if that's true,

00:29:15.120 if you're a voter,

00:29:15.800 you're like,

00:29:16.220 well,

00:29:16.400 I'm sorry,

00:29:17.000 but you still have to go.

00:29:18.160 Like,

00:29:18.540 either way,

00:29:18.940 it's bad for me.

00:29:20.760 Yeah,

00:29:20.940 it's,

00:29:21.200 it's,

00:29:21.480 it's,

00:29:21.980 he,

00:29:22.320 I listened to a podcast

00:29:23.460 they did.

00:29:23.880 He blamed everybody

00:29:24.640 from the Republicans

00:29:25.560 to the media,

00:29:26.800 to the cops,

00:29:28.500 to the pandemic.

00:29:29.700 I mean,

00:29:30.160 he's,

00:29:30.380 this guy's got

00:29:30.840 a million excuses

00:29:31.600 of why people

00:29:32.820 who commit murder

00:29:33.860 or beat,

00:29:35.280 you know,

00:29:35.580 senior citizens up

00:29:36.480 can't go to jail.

00:29:37.660 You don't really,

00:29:39.360 there's no great mystery

00:29:40.400 going on here.

00:29:41.200 He's a radical.

00:29:41.980 He doesn't believe in prison

00:29:43.260 and he's just the wrong person.

00:29:45.600 He should be in the public

00:29:46.580 defender's office,

00:29:47.360 which by the way,

00:29:47.800 is where he was.

00:29:49.080 Yes.

00:29:49.420 Like,

00:29:49.540 this is a public defender

00:29:50.660 who now has basically

00:29:51.880 embedded themselves

00:29:52.820 into the prosecutor's office

00:29:55.240 and it's just obvious

00:29:57.040 to everybody

00:29:57.440 what's going on here

00:29:58.120 and I would encourage everybody

00:29:59.580 when you look at these,

00:30:00.540 you know,

00:30:01.000 fun with numbers

00:30:01.740 and statistics,

00:30:03.060 anybody who's lived

00:30:04.020 in San Francisco

00:30:04.860 and I left the city

00:30:06.800 a couple years ago

00:30:07.480 but I did live there

00:30:08.280 and I do have

00:30:09.800 a property there

00:30:10.480 and,

00:30:11.720 you know,

00:30:11.980 when you go to the city,

00:30:13.160 it's pretty well known

00:30:14.120 your car will get broken into

00:30:15.680 and it's pretty well known

00:30:17.300 that your home

00:30:17.900 is going to be

00:30:18.580 either broken into

00:30:19.340 or certainly people

00:30:20.200 are going to attempt

00:30:21.060 to break into your home

00:30:22.320 and people have stopped

00:30:23.720 reporting it.

00:30:24.500 Now,

00:30:24.620 why did they stop reporting it?

00:30:25.800 Because when you talk

00:30:26.580 to the police,

00:30:27.200 they tell you

00:30:27.700 nothing's going to happen

00:30:28.800 and so you do have this,

00:30:31.340 I think people have capitulated

00:30:33.120 and said,

00:30:33.540 you know what,

00:30:33.960 this is,

00:30:35.940 as long as this person

00:30:36.900 is running the show,

00:30:37.960 Chesa Boudin,

00:30:38.600 we're not going to get

00:30:39.600 anybody prosecuted

00:30:40.660 so why even report it?

00:30:41.920 So people have given up

00:30:42.820 that that is actually true

00:30:44.060 and back to why these,

00:30:47.440 I think these recall elections

00:30:48.980 actually are quite effective

00:30:50.780 because it takes a lot of effort

00:30:52.560 to do one.

00:30:53.660 You need to spend a lot of money

00:30:55.140 and you need to present your case.

00:30:57.380 It's like firing somebody

00:30:58.480 and I think it's actually

00:31:00.100 a great backstop

00:31:01.180 against incompetence

00:31:02.360 and so to,

00:31:03.820 we had our San Francisco

00:31:05.020 Board of Education,

00:31:07.100 we had some crazy folks there

00:31:08.760 who wouldn't reopen the schools

00:31:09.760 and were obsessed

00:31:10.860 with changing the names

00:31:11.780 of the schools

00:31:12.320 over getting parents

00:31:13.560 and kids back in school

00:31:15.360 during the pandemic

00:31:16.080 and they were fired

00:31:17.640 through a recall election.

00:31:19.280 So I think actually

00:31:20.100 these recalls in California

00:31:21.500 are a unique policy

00:31:24.640 and process

00:31:25.680 that people should

00:31:26.680 be studying

00:31:28.280 because I don't know

00:31:28.980 how you feel about it,

00:31:29.740 David,

00:31:29.940 but it does seem

00:31:30.580 like a great backstop.

00:31:32.060 Could it be abused?

00:31:32.980 I guess.

00:31:34.200 Well, unfortunately,

00:31:35.060 in California,

00:31:35.640 we don't really have

00:31:36.740 a very functional

00:31:37.480 Republican Party

00:31:38.240 so we live in a one-party state

00:31:39.900 and that party

00:31:41.120 is a giant political machine

00:31:43.300 that seems to control

00:31:44.200 the state

00:31:44.700 and the recalls

00:31:45.540 are one of the few ways

00:31:47.520 that we have

00:31:48.160 of rebelling

00:31:48.680 against that political machine

00:31:49.900 and that's why

00:31:50.480 it's very important.

00:31:51.480 And by the way,

00:31:51.960 that's why recalls

00:31:53.140 were created

00:31:53.640 during the progressive era

00:31:54.780 about 100 years ago

00:31:55.840 is that the progressives

00:31:57.740 of that era

00:31:58.740 during Teddy Roosevelt's time,

00:32:01.220 they were worried

00:32:01.740 that government

00:32:02.120 could be captured

00:32:02.660 by special interests

00:32:03.500 and that people

00:32:04.100 needed a way

00:32:04.920 to rebel

00:32:05.900 against the party bosses

00:32:07.000 and that's exactly

00:32:07.820 how recalls

00:32:08.460 are being used

00:32:08.980 right now

00:32:09.840 is we're basically

00:32:10.440 rebelling

00:32:10.760 against this

00:32:11.360 Democratic machine

00:32:12.500 that controls California.

00:32:14.500 But let me just go back

00:32:15.200 to this point

00:32:16.200 about the blame game

00:32:17.140 that Jason Boudin

00:32:18.020 is playing

00:32:18.900 is that whenever

00:32:19.860 something bad happens,

00:32:21.080 he always is blaming

00:32:22.060 somebody else

00:32:22.680 whether it's the police

00:32:23.520 or the parole division,

00:32:25.500 there's a fundamental

00:32:26.340 dishonesty

00:32:27.180 and lie

00:32:28.520 at the heart

00:32:29.140 of this decarceral agenda

00:32:30.620 which is this,

00:32:31.760 which is

00:32:32.160 when Jason Boudin

00:32:33.500 is on NPR

00:32:34.900 or he's running for office

00:32:36.100 and he's talking

00:32:36.800 about his agenda,

00:32:37.960 he will admit,

00:32:39.240 he will basically say openly,

00:32:40.920 I don't believe

00:32:41.840 in using prison

00:32:43.480 as a deterrent,

00:32:44.620 I'm in favor

00:32:45.200 of mass decarceration.

00:32:47.200 But the,

00:32:47.460 and you know,

00:32:48.140 anybody with a brain

00:32:48.960 could tell you

00:32:49.560 what's going to happen

00:32:50.260 if you start releasing

00:32:51.300 repeat violent offenders.

00:32:52.660 But, you know,

00:32:53.680 when he's giving

00:32:54.340 the sort of the NPR interview,

00:32:56.640 this is basically

00:32:57.400 his position

00:32:58.000 is that decarceration

00:32:58.840 is a good thing.

00:32:59.840 But then when the chickens

00:33:00.560 come home to roost

00:33:01.560 and you get,

00:33:02.660 you know,

00:33:02.940 crimes perpetrated

00:33:03.840 by the very people

00:33:04.680 he's released,

00:33:05.300 like for example,

00:33:06.300 there was that case

00:33:06.940 of Troy McAllister

00:33:07.760 who was a third strike offender

00:33:08.880 that was released

00:33:10.080 by Jason Boudin.

00:33:10.980 He was arrested five times.

00:33:12.680 Jason never pressed charges.

00:33:14.240 He then kills two people

00:33:15.240 on New Year's Eve

00:33:16.500 of, you know,

00:33:18.160 2020, 2021.

00:33:20.720 And Boudin blamed

00:33:22.160 that on the parole division.

00:33:23.120 Well, he should have been

00:33:23.600 supervised better by parole.

00:33:24.780 No, he should have been

00:33:25.720 in prison.

00:33:26.300 He should have been charged.

00:33:27.760 And so this is

00:33:28.340 the fundamental dishonesty

00:33:29.460 is that Boudin wants us

00:33:30.580 to believe that decarceration

00:33:32.180 is a good thing

00:33:33.040 and that whenever

00:33:34.040 the results

00:33:35.120 of decarceration

00:33:36.400 sort of come home to roost,

00:33:38.180 well, that was somebody

00:33:38.840 else's fault.

00:33:39.460 That wasn't the result

00:33:40.200 of his agenda.

00:33:41.500 It was the cop's fault.

00:33:42.520 It was the parole division's fault.

00:33:44.060 No, it's your fault.

00:33:45.420 It's your agenda's fault.

00:33:46.740 That is so true

00:33:48.140 that New York Magazine,

00:33:49.220 of course, decided to weigh in

00:33:50.280 and they interviewed him.

00:33:53.160 And of course,

00:33:53.820 this comes from him.

00:33:54.700 This is their interview with him.

00:33:56.060 They're defending him

00:33:57.100 and they list the reasons

00:33:58.720 why San Francisco's in trouble,

00:34:00.540 you know,

00:34:00.720 why the crime rate

00:34:01.400 is what it is there.

00:34:02.480 And this is what they wrote.

00:34:03.700 Boudin is endangered

00:34:04.580 by forces

00:34:05.440 largely beyond his control.

00:34:08.180 He cannot build more housing

00:34:09.820 or decide what a judge

00:34:11.160 wants to do

00:34:11.740 with a defendant.

00:34:12.960 Hello, he's the DA.

00:34:14.320 Where do you think

00:34:15.400 the judge gets

00:34:15.940 his recommendation from?

00:34:17.300 A district attorney

00:34:18.120 can't make arrests

00:34:19.540 or wave a wand

00:34:21.040 to magically lower crime tomorrow.

00:34:23.920 Oh, sure.

00:34:24.320 The DA never speaks

00:34:25.280 to the police

00:34:25.960 about who should be arrested

00:34:27.100 and what crimes

00:34:28.020 we want to prioritize.

00:34:29.580 And then Boudin goes on

00:34:31.220 to add in this piece,

00:34:32.640 their effort to blame me

00:34:33.780 and my office

00:34:34.580 as though we were

00:34:35.600 the sole actor

00:34:36.520 in the criminal legal system,

00:34:37.960 as though we play God

00:34:39.220 in these cases,

00:34:40.260 is not how the system

00:34:41.340 of checks and balances

00:34:42.600 our founders devised works.

00:34:46.040 It's unbelievable.

00:34:47.600 I like the fact

00:34:49.480 that they're trying

00:34:50.160 to absolve him,

00:34:51.160 the magazine

00:34:51.740 and Chesa Boudin himself

00:34:53.180 from any responsibility

00:34:54.800 for any of this

00:34:55.940 while still openly admitting

00:34:58.060 he's for decarceration

00:34:59.320 and won't enforce

00:35:00.000 the laws that are already

00:35:00.840 on the books

00:35:01.300 for those who are not

00:35:01.960 yet incarcerated

00:35:02.640 is I think we call it

00:35:04.420 chutzpah.

00:35:06.360 One of the problems

00:35:07.380 there, Megan,

00:35:07.820 is also that

00:35:08.560 once people realize

00:35:09.840 that you're not enforcing

00:35:11.720 certain laws,

00:35:13.120 the word spreads.

00:35:14.200 Criminals are really smart.

00:35:16.060 Addicts are really smart

00:35:17.120 when it comes to

00:35:18.200 acquiring drugs.

00:35:19.300 And, you know,

00:35:20.540 most of the folks

00:35:21.620 who are addicted here

00:35:22.620 and who are homeless

00:35:23.280 in San Francisco

00:35:23.840 are not from San Francisco.

00:35:25.400 This is not, you know,

00:35:26.700 there certainly is a housing

00:35:27.980 problem in California.

00:35:28.840 We all know that.

00:35:30.040 But what happens

00:35:30.920 in the rest of the country

00:35:31.740 is addicts are finding out

00:35:34.440 that the place

00:35:35.320 with the best drugs

00:35:36.460 at the least price,

00:35:37.400 at the lowest price

00:35:38.280 with the least enforcement

00:35:40.100 is California, Los Angeles.

00:35:41.940 And so where do addicts go?

00:35:43.340 They literally come here

00:35:44.660 because for them,

00:35:45.900 this is where

00:35:46.800 they continue that addiction

00:35:48.460 and not face

00:35:50.260 any repercussions.

00:35:51.620 If you were to do this

00:35:52.520 in another state,

00:35:53.440 you would wind up in jail.

00:35:54.860 And so now California

00:35:56.880 is disproportionately supporting

00:35:58.980 and now having to pay

00:36:02.040 the price for the addiction

00:36:03.860 problems across

00:36:05.660 the entire country.

00:36:06.620 When you look at

00:36:07.820 the car break-ins,

00:36:09.180 once we stopped

00:36:10.160 prosecuting those

00:36:11.220 and they're really easy

00:36:12.340 to catch people

00:36:12.860 who break into cars,

00:36:13.400 you just create a bait car.

00:36:14.400 It's not rocket science, folks.

00:36:15.500 You put some cameras in a car,

00:36:16.440 you put a police officer

00:36:17.580 around the car,

00:36:18.200 you leave a laptop in there

00:36:19.080 and you can arrest the person.

00:36:20.820 Once that became obvious,

00:36:23.020 then groups of gangs

00:36:23.960 were coming from across

00:36:25.080 the wider Bay area

00:36:26.420 to come into San Francisco

00:36:27.600 to specifically go

00:36:28.940 to Fisherman's Wharf

00:36:29.720 and other places

00:36:30.400 where they knew

00:36:31.480 tourists would be

00:36:32.140 and rob their cars.

00:36:33.720 And then we lost tourism here.

00:36:35.140 Then they did the same thing,

00:36:37.060 breaking into people's homes

00:36:38.400 and Walgreens

00:36:40.160 and you saw all these

00:36:40.900 snatch and grabs

00:36:41.540 at high-end stores.

00:36:43.320 So again,

00:36:44.380 when you make it clear

00:36:45.960 to criminals,

00:36:46.800 hey, this is allowable behavior

00:36:49.400 and your chances

00:36:50.380 of being arrested

00:36:51.000 are incredibly low,

00:36:52.180 there's a direct correlation

00:36:53.420 with the price of drugs

00:36:54.660 and enforcement.

00:36:58.960 In other words,

00:36:59.600 if dealers get arrested,

00:37:00.940 you need to find

00:37:01.740 another dealer.

00:37:02.480 You have to pay

00:37:03.040 to get them out of jail.

00:37:03.900 You've got to pay for lawyers

00:37:04.800 and that side of the equation

00:37:06.460 raises the price of drugs.

00:37:07.760 That's why in places

00:37:08.400 where it's really costly

00:37:10.600 to deal drugs,

00:37:11.640 the price of drugs goes up

00:37:12.940 and that's what happens

00:37:14.740 with consumption

00:37:15.200 is basic economics

00:37:16.360 and the economics here

00:37:17.540 are you can score

00:37:19.020 very powerful drugs

00:37:20.420 at very low prices

00:37:21.460 and face no repercussions.

00:37:22.960 What do we think

00:37:23.520 is going to happen?

00:37:23.960 It's a statewide problem

00:37:25.480 that crimes under $1,000,

00:37:28.040 thefts under $1,000

00:37:28.960 won't be prosecuted.

00:37:30.080 That's not just San Francisco.

00:37:30.980 So that's why Walgreens

00:37:33.060 is really struggling

00:37:34.920 and it's got,

00:37:36.480 I think,

00:37:36.620 crime up 47% year over year

00:37:38.340 and it had to close

00:37:38.880 five locations

00:37:39.500 in the San Francisco area

00:37:40.560 because all the problems

00:37:41.780 plus that law

00:37:42.620 don't lead to good business.

00:37:44.160 You can see why things

00:37:45.180 are falling apart

00:37:45.880 and why the voters,

00:37:47.480 even progressive-minded,

00:37:49.820 quote,

00:37:50.080 liberal,

00:37:50.480 bleeding-heart liberals

00:37:51.480 have had enough of this

00:37:53.140 and are seeing

00:37:53.720 the consequences

00:37:54.460 of bad policy

00:37:55.980 on their personal lives.

00:37:57.840 That's what actually

00:37:58.560 does drive somebody

00:37:59.360 to the voting box

00:38:00.420 when you see it

00:38:01.520 in your personal life.

00:38:02.380 All right,

00:38:02.520 let me take a quick pause

00:38:03.500 so I can squeeze in a break

00:38:04.720 and more with David and Jason.

00:38:06.260 So much to go over,

00:38:07.120 including what's happening

00:38:08.140 with their pal Elon and Twitter.

00:38:09.820 We'll get to that

00:38:10.380 a bit later in the show.

00:38:11.500 Stay tuned for that.

00:38:12.180 So one of the things

00:38:21.020 that they are doing now

00:38:22.440 to defend Chesa Boudin

00:38:23.500 from this recall effort

00:38:24.560 is to say,

00:38:25.540 hey, look at other cities.

00:38:27.020 It's not just San Francisco

00:38:28.500 under Chesa Boudin.

00:38:30.220 Look at Sacramento.

00:38:31.380 They've got a tough-talking DA up there

00:38:33.360 and their crime rate numbers

00:38:35.400 are way up.

00:38:36.400 So, you know,

00:38:37.340 it's unfair

00:38:38.060 to blame this guy

00:38:39.400 for that.

00:38:40.340 Now, we took a quick look.

00:38:42.120 This is

00:38:42.420 the San Francisco Chronicle

00:38:44.540 and they're pointing

00:38:45.400 to the Sacramento DA,

00:38:46.980 Anne-Marie Schubert,

00:38:48.040 saying she's running

00:38:48.800 for California

00:38:49.440 Attorney General now.

00:38:51.260 She's an ex-Republican

00:38:52.320 prosecutor.

00:38:53.660 And they're talking

00:38:54.660 about San Francisco

00:38:55.540 crime

00:38:56.180 in 2015

00:38:57.800 to the pandemic,

00:38:59.080 saying it went way up.

00:39:00.440 It jumped from

00:39:01.220 2968

00:39:03.460 to 3611.

00:39:06.700 What is that?

00:39:07.240 I'm not sure what that is,

00:39:08.460 like number of crime victims.

00:39:10.040 Number of crime victims,

00:39:11.040 though,

00:39:11.180 it's a 22% increase

00:39:12.720 in number of crime victims.

00:39:14.920 Now,

00:39:15.340 the thing about Sacramento

00:39:16.220 is,

00:39:17.740 as you guys may be aware,

00:39:19.180 it's part of California.

00:39:21.560 So,

00:39:22.460 it seems to me,

00:39:23.680 similar to what we talked about

00:39:24.540 right before winter break,

00:39:25.840 of course,

00:39:26.420 they would be suffering

00:39:27.160 year over year

00:39:28.140 because California

00:39:28.840 over the past couple years

00:39:29.720 since the pandemic

00:39:30.520 has implemented

00:39:31.640 a lot of very soft

00:39:32.680 on crime policies

00:39:33.480 that have affected

00:39:34.220 the entire state.

00:39:35.380 But what do you guys

00:39:35.840 make of it?

00:39:37.040 Yeah,

00:39:37.240 I think that's right.

00:39:38.400 So,

00:39:38.820 you mentioned before

00:39:39.680 this editorial

00:39:40.580 saying that

00:39:41.620 Jason Boudin

00:39:42.200 doesn't have agency,

00:39:43.560 that he doesn't

00:39:44.060 really have control.

00:39:44.760 That's not true.

00:39:45.520 He has tremendous control,

00:39:47.060 not just over individual cases,

00:39:48.560 but also over policy.

00:39:49.960 So,

00:39:50.200 for example,

00:39:51.260 zero bail.

00:39:52.420 Boudin has implemented

00:39:53.320 a zero bail policy

00:39:54.760 in the city of San Francisco.

00:39:56.660 So,

00:39:56.980 criminals basically get booked

00:39:58.080 and it's a revolving door

00:39:59.380 and they're out the next day

00:40:00.780 or even the same night.

00:40:02.080 That has basically

00:40:03.340 demoralized the police

00:40:04.720 and caused a sort of

00:40:06.040 sense of learned helplessness

00:40:07.360 in which people

00:40:08.140 stop reporting crime.

00:40:10.040 They stop bothering

00:40:10.740 because they know

00:40:11.640 that nothing's going to happen.

00:40:13.460 But that policy

00:40:14.220 of zero bail

00:40:15.020 that's so detrimental

00:40:15.900 has also been supported

00:40:17.320 at the state level

00:40:19.000 by Gavin Newsom,

00:40:20.680 the governor,

00:40:21.280 and his hand-picked

00:40:22.060 Attorney General,

00:40:22.760 Rob Bonta,

00:40:23.820 as well as by

00:40:24.700 George Gascon in L.A.

00:40:25.920 So,

00:40:26.340 they are pushing

00:40:26.900 for these policies as well.

00:40:28.640 And Newsom is responsible

00:40:29.560 for the early release

00:40:30.640 of something like

00:40:31.220 76,000 inmates.

00:40:32.920 He's also shut down prisons

00:40:34.660 at a time

00:40:35.380 when we need

00:40:36.120 more prison space.

00:40:37.240 And they continue

00:40:38.160 to do things

00:40:38.880 like reduce punishments

00:40:40.760 and sentences.

00:40:41.620 They continue to do things

00:40:43.000 like downgrade felonies

00:40:44.220 to misdemeanors,

00:40:45.080 which aren't even

00:40:45.680 being prosecuted

00:40:46.720 anymore by these

00:40:48.360 progressive DAs.

00:40:49.320 So,

00:40:49.580 it is a statewide problem

00:40:51.020 and voters really need

00:40:52.320 to hold

00:40:52.760 not just Boudin accountable,

00:40:54.440 but they need to hold

00:40:55.320 Newsom accountable

00:40:56.360 and Bonta accountable.

00:40:57.860 And that is why

00:40:58.700 I'm supporting

00:40:59.300 Schellenberger

00:40:59.780 for governor

00:41:00.260 and I am supporting

00:41:01.620 Emory Schubert

00:41:02.300 for state AG

00:41:04.240 is because we do need

00:41:05.660 a statewide change

00:41:06.440 on these issues.

00:41:07.520 Is there any chance?

00:41:08.820 Like,

00:41:08.980 what?

00:41:09.660 Could Schellenberger

00:41:10.400 actually win?

00:41:11.700 I love him.

00:41:13.020 I'm 100% rooting for him.

00:41:14.640 I'd be open about that.

00:41:15.560 He's brilliant.

00:41:16.400 I love his writings

00:41:17.100 on the environment

00:41:18.260 and climate change

00:41:19.100 and homelessness

00:41:19.560 and San Francisco

00:41:20.460 and all.

00:41:21.040 Sicko,

00:41:21.560 I should say.

00:41:22.060 That's the name of his book.

00:41:23.220 But does he

00:41:24.400 actually have a chance?

00:41:26.120 Well,

00:41:26.320 what I would say

00:41:27.160 is certainly

00:41:27.820 an underdog chance,

00:41:30.240 but here's why

00:41:31.180 there's a path

00:41:31.980 is because

00:41:32.680 today,

00:41:33.840 June 7th,

00:41:34.520 is the California primary

00:41:35.920 and California has

00:41:36.880 sort of what's known

00:41:38.040 as a jungle primary

00:41:38.900 where everybody

00:41:39.820 from all parties

00:41:40.760 is voted on

00:41:41.980 and the top two

00:41:43.000 go to a runoff.

00:41:44.680 So if Schellenberger,

00:41:45.720 for example,

00:41:46.640 as an independent

00:41:47.380 could beat

00:41:48.160 the Republican

00:41:49.120 and go to a runoff,

00:41:50.620 if he could just come

00:41:51.200 in number two

00:41:51.880 behind Newsom,

00:41:52.980 he goes to a heads-up

00:41:54.040 recall against Newsom.

00:41:55.860 And so there would be

00:41:56.480 no Republican

00:41:57.760 or other third-party

00:41:58.920 candidate in that race.

00:42:00.580 And I think

00:42:00.960 once you get into

00:42:02.120 a heads-up competition

00:42:03.240 against Newsom,

00:42:04.360 particularly when

00:42:05.080 the alternative

00:42:05.580 is not a Republican,

00:42:06.940 is not branded

00:42:07.880 with the scarlet R.

00:42:09.400 I mean,

00:42:09.540 California is a very blue state.

00:42:11.020 I don't think

00:42:11.580 a Republican

00:42:12.660 has much of a shot

00:42:13.840 of winning here anymore.

00:42:15.240 But Schellenberger

00:42:16.400 is independent.

00:42:17.220 So if he could just get

00:42:17.980 into a heads-up race

00:42:19.020 against Newsom,

00:42:19.980 I think that there's

00:42:21.140 a chance there.

00:42:21.860 And he would get

00:42:22.220 a lot of earned media.

00:42:23.180 There would be

00:42:24.080 a lot of attention

00:42:24.660 on that race

00:42:25.420 and discovering

00:42:25.940 who Schellenberger is.

00:42:27.160 So it's certainly

00:42:28.080 a long shot,

00:42:28.840 but there is a path.

00:42:30.240 He's an exciting thinker.

00:42:32.020 He's somebody

00:42:32.500 who comes at problems

00:42:33.260 the right way

00:42:33.800 by actually just taking

00:42:34.960 an honest look at them,

00:42:36.040 not through an ideological lens,

00:42:37.960 and then trying to figure out

00:42:38.900 what works.

00:42:39.880 He's certainly not somebody

00:42:40.720 who thinks we should be

00:42:41.920 shutting down prisons

00:42:42.840 or California nuclear plants.

00:42:45.320 I mean,

00:42:46.020 the guy makes so much sense,

00:42:47.560 but we'll see

00:42:48.580 whether people are lucky enough

00:42:49.880 to accept the gift

00:42:50.700 that he is offering them,

00:42:51.800 which is a willingness

00:42:52.360 to serve.

00:42:54.340 Back on the crimes,

00:42:56.700 just to go back to Boudin,

00:42:57.800 because I know that you,

00:42:59.120 Jason,

00:42:59.320 did something interesting.

00:43:00.460 Like, David,

00:43:00.860 you got behind

00:43:01.280 this recall effort,

00:43:02.080 and then, Jason,

00:43:02.600 you have a background

00:43:03.380 in media

00:43:03.860 before you got into

00:43:04.600 being the most

00:43:05.660 visionary angel investor

00:43:08.440 of all time.

00:43:09.460 Basically,

00:43:09.940 if Jason gives you

00:43:10.660 your money,

00:43:11.360 continue, Megan.

00:43:12.160 I like this one.

00:43:13.120 Your business

00:43:14.000 is going to do well.

00:43:15.340 It's crazy

00:43:15.720 the list of successes

00:43:16.580 you've had,

00:43:17.420 even though you were

00:43:18.100 off base

00:43:18.680 on that Republican stuff.

00:43:19.680 We'll talk about

00:43:22.940 January 6th later,

00:43:23.900 Megan.

00:43:24.560 Well,

00:43:25.120 I mean,

00:43:25.460 we probably won't have

00:43:26.220 too much to debate

00:43:26.820 on that one,

00:43:27.280 but can we talk

00:43:28.740 about the journalist?

00:43:29.360 So you hired a journalist

00:43:30.100 to take a hard look

00:43:30.920 at what he's actually done.

00:43:33.660 How is he actually

00:43:34.260 handling crime?

00:43:34.820 Because it's one thing

00:43:35.460 to say,

00:43:35.880 all these cars

00:43:36.740 are getting broken into.

00:43:37.780 Our homes are getting

00:43:38.520 broken into.

00:43:39.120 I feel it.

00:43:39.840 I don't need to see

00:43:40.420 a study,

00:43:40.940 but I feel it.

00:43:41.840 But you hired a journalist

00:43:42.640 to actually figure out

00:43:44.000 who is he releasing

00:43:45.760 violent offenders?

00:43:46.960 How are things

00:43:47.460 changing under him?

00:43:48.220 Give me specific cases

00:43:49.280 and what did you find?

00:43:50.220 Well, yeah.

00:43:50.640 So what you were

00:43:52.180 mentioning before,

00:43:53.840 you know,

00:43:54.120 we have very liberal

00:43:55.180 magazines here

00:43:57.800 and newspapers

00:43:58.960 and the coverage

00:43:59.820 is almost uniformly

00:44:01.180 in favor of

00:44:02.240 Chester Boudin.

00:44:03.100 So I said,

00:44:03.560 listen,

00:44:04.340 one of the problems

00:44:04.940 here is I think

00:44:05.440 people are not getting

00:44:06.580 great coverage

00:44:08.880 of what's happening

00:44:10.520 with his office.

00:44:11.200 And so what if

00:44:11.820 we just hired a journalist

00:44:12.700 and we did a

00:44:13.780 GoFundMe campaign

00:44:14.720 and we said,

00:44:15.640 you know,

00:44:15.880 let's look at

00:44:17.400 what he's actually doing.

00:44:19.480 And so I started

00:44:20.720 this GoFundMe

00:44:21.400 and I put 500 bucks

00:44:22.660 in myself.

00:44:23.460 And I said,

00:44:23.880 anybody else want

00:44:24.560 to join me

00:44:25.020 on this journey?

00:44:25.860 And $65,000

00:44:27.280 showed up

00:44:27.880 in a couple of weeks.

00:44:29.580 And so we hired

00:44:30.580 Susan Reynolds

00:44:31.280 who Sachs mentioned before

00:44:32.920 and now she is just

00:44:34.200 covering,

00:44:34.640 you know,

00:44:35.300 specific cases of victims.

00:44:36.580 And I said,

00:44:36.960 listen,

00:44:37.160 here's the money.

00:44:38.280 I trust you to do

00:44:39.020 the best you can here.

00:44:40.380 I suggest you just

00:44:41.280 do coverage of them.

00:44:42.580 If you go to

00:44:42.980 Gotham by the Bay,

00:44:44.060 Gotham by the Bay dot com,

00:44:45.480 you can read all these stories

00:44:46.440 and I don't have them

00:44:47.640 pulled up right now.

00:44:48.360 But, you know,

00:44:49.120 she'll write a 2000 word

00:44:50.340 story about the victims

00:44:51.320 and she'll go into

00:44:52.140 exactly how crazy

00:44:53.100 these cases are.

00:44:53.840 And it's kind of irrefutable.

00:44:55.100 Of course,

00:44:55.460 they're trying to discredit

00:44:56.380 her, discredit me.

00:44:58.200 But the facts are the facts.

00:44:59.620 The cases are the cases.

00:45:00.900 David actually mentioned

00:45:01.700 a couple of them.

00:45:02.860 And well,

00:45:03.420 the Stephanie Ching one

00:45:04.660 is one of the ones

00:45:05.740 that jumped out to me.

00:45:06.600 Stephanie Ching

00:45:07.200 helped kill

00:45:08.640 and dismember her father.

00:45:10.180 This is quoting

00:45:10.700 from Susan's

00:45:11.320 January 2022 article.

00:45:12.840 But she didn't spend

00:45:14.220 a single day in jail.

00:45:15.520 And you go through

00:45:16.040 the details of this case.

00:45:17.180 They showed up

00:45:17.980 at her house.

00:45:19.140 Police did found

00:45:20.200 a nylon rope,

00:45:20.900 box cutters,

00:45:21.460 duct tape,

00:45:21.900 a worm circular saw,

00:45:23.620 red stained latex gloves,

00:45:24.900 pan sponge,

00:45:25.620 reddish brown fluid,

00:45:26.800 human blood on the saw,

00:45:28.040 multiple plastic bags

00:45:28.960 in the refrigerator.

00:45:30.060 You do not want to know

00:45:30.900 what was in the bags,

00:45:31.760 but I'm sure you can

00:45:32.340 figure it out.

00:45:33.260 Let's just say

00:45:33.820 Stephanie's father

00:45:35.280 did not meet

00:45:36.500 a timely or kind death.

00:45:38.660 And somehow

00:45:40.500 this woman

00:45:41.220 escaped

00:45:42.000 any jail time.

00:45:44.180 I mean,

00:45:44.680 like that doesn't seem

00:45:45.440 possible even in

00:45:46.220 Chesa Boudin's world.

00:45:48.100 She received

00:45:48.760 a suspended sentence.

00:45:50.020 I think he put her down

00:45:50.980 to something like

00:45:52.500 desecration of a body

00:45:54.040 or something.

00:45:54.620 She was credited

00:45:55.080 with time served

00:45:55.780 for 17 months

00:45:56.560 spent in jail.

00:45:57.220 Now she's walking free

00:45:58.100 in the streets

00:45:58.480 of San Francisco.

00:45:59.220 I mean,

00:45:59.460 these are dangerous people

00:46:00.720 who have just been released.

00:46:02.040 It's mind boggling.

00:46:03.340 Absolutely mind boggling.

00:46:05.180 Another story

00:46:06.380 that Susan just broke

00:46:07.780 in the last week,

00:46:08.980 which I think

00:46:09.320 is really important,

00:46:10.500 is on gun crimes.

00:46:12.580 So what she found

00:46:13.920 is that Boudin,

00:46:15.820 you know,

00:46:16.200 likes to make a big deal

00:46:17.420 about gun crimes.

00:46:18.600 He talks about

00:46:19.260 banning ghost guns

00:46:20.480 and he wants to prosecute

00:46:21.660 firearms manufacturers.

00:46:23.360 But when you actually

00:46:24.100 look at felony gun cases,

00:46:26.300 he has dismissed

00:46:27.280 over 75% of them.

00:46:29.960 So he will talk

00:46:31.660 a big game

00:46:32.260 about gun crimes

00:46:33.780 and gun violence

00:46:34.520 and going after

00:46:35.100 gun manufacturers.

00:46:37.280 But when it actually

00:46:37.900 comes to crimes

00:46:38.740 committed with guns,

00:46:39.660 he won't prosecute them.

00:46:41.540 And, you know,

00:46:41.920 there was a real,

00:46:42.640 a tragic real world

00:46:43.700 example of this.

00:46:44.800 There was a perpetrator

00:46:46.740 named Zion Young

00:46:48.600 who was caught

00:46:50.880 with a lot of firearms.

00:46:53.520 They had 11 gun-related

00:46:55.240 felonies on him.

00:46:57.120 And Boudin

00:46:58.220 pled it down

00:46:59.060 to one misdemeanor,

00:47:00.180 released him from jail.

00:47:01.480 And just a couple

00:47:02.040 of months later,

00:47:02.640 he killed a young man

00:47:03.740 named Kelvin Chu

00:47:04.940 in a botched robbery.

00:47:06.960 So, you know,

00:47:07.620 these examples

00:47:08.900 have real-world consequences.

00:47:10.960 Real people

00:47:11.620 get hurt

00:47:12.680 when Boudin

00:47:13.820 does not prosecute

00:47:14.560 these crimes.

00:47:15.800 That's right.

00:47:16.380 That's right.

00:47:16.860 And the same thing

00:47:18.480 is happening

00:47:19.080 over in L.A.

00:47:21.020 where another

00:47:21.820 Soros-backed

00:47:23.000 DA

00:47:23.380 is doing

00:47:24.120 very similar policies

00:47:25.400 unapologetically.

00:47:26.860 And he could also

00:47:28.060 lose his job.

00:47:28.880 I'm actually going to

00:47:29.720 take a pause there

00:47:30.500 and pick it up

00:47:31.020 with that case

00:47:32.200 because there's

00:47:32.720 this one particular case.

00:47:33.960 It's insane.

00:47:34.580 We have video of it.

00:47:35.840 This mom pushing

00:47:37.140 her toddler,

00:47:37.860 her baby,

00:47:38.920 down an alley.

00:47:39.840 She's on the sidewalk

00:47:40.780 and this perpetrator

00:47:42.540 comes along

00:47:43.200 and mows them down.

00:47:45.480 We'll tell you

00:47:46.160 what happened

00:47:46.820 and what her message is

00:47:48.440 for these soft-on-crime

00:47:49.540 DAs

00:47:50.000 and the cities

00:47:50.620 that back them.

00:47:51.960 You guys had

00:47:56.560 this recent

00:47:57.200 summit.

00:47:58.340 I don't know.

00:47:58.980 Maybe that's not

00:47:59.600 the right word

00:48:00.220 but I saw my child Glenn.

00:48:01.980 Okay, summit.

00:48:02.600 I saw Glenn there.

00:48:04.000 I saw Matt Taibbi there.

00:48:06.200 A couple of other folks

00:48:07.200 that we've had on the show

00:48:07.880 and I loved it.

00:48:09.060 People got into

00:48:09.960 heated debates

00:48:11.460 and you let them

00:48:12.140 go at it.

00:48:13.000 Yeah, the concept

00:48:13.560 was pretty simple.

00:48:14.940 The All In podcast

00:48:16.360 has become

00:48:17.040 a bit of a phenomenon.

00:48:18.220 We hit 26

00:48:19.180 in the world

00:48:20.000 recently

00:48:21.280 and it's just

00:48:22.580 the four of us

00:48:23.300 talking about

00:48:23.980 the issues of the day

00:48:25.140 from a first principles

00:48:26.180 point of view

00:48:26.820 and we actually

00:48:27.340 build businesses

00:48:28.040 and it's a great

00:48:30.080 debate format.

00:48:30.800 You probably see

00:48:31.620 a little bit of it

00:48:32.660 here with me

00:48:33.140 and Sachs going at it

00:48:34.160 but we can remain friends,

00:48:35.920 right?

00:48:36.240 And so I think

00:48:36.880 that's what we're trying

00:48:37.660 to show the world

00:48:38.320 is we can debate

00:48:38.920 these very important topics.

00:48:40.680 We can learn

00:48:41.060 from each other.

00:48:41.600 We can change

00:48:42.160 our opinions

00:48:42.680 based on new information

00:48:44.780 and maybe be less tribal

00:48:45.980 and more solutions based.

00:48:48.260 We decided to do an event.

00:48:49.920 850 people showed up.

00:48:51.460 And it was

00:48:52.280 a colossal success.

00:48:53.700 You know,

00:48:53.900 some of the world's

00:48:54.520 greatest thinkers

00:48:55.080 and speakers.

00:48:56.440 And we really had

00:48:58.060 a hardcore discussion.

00:48:59.880 No press was allowed

00:49:00.760 but we did release

00:49:01.900 all the videos

00:49:02.440 to the All In podcast stream

00:49:04.120 and it was a great success

00:49:07.620 in terms of having

00:49:09.120 productive dialogues

00:49:09.920 in a really rigorous way.

00:49:12.980 And I think David,

00:49:14.660 you know,

00:49:14.800 his debate specifically,

00:49:16.280 some of the stuff

00:49:17.020 he curated

00:49:17.440 was absolutely fantastic.

00:49:19.440 Which was on what?

00:49:20.320 What was yours?

00:49:20.940 What did you take on?

00:49:22.300 I had two panels.

00:49:23.500 So we did one

00:49:24.360 with Glenn Greenwald

00:49:25.780 and Matt Taibbi,

00:49:26.440 like you mentioned,

00:49:27.180 on domestic politics

00:49:28.680 and really trying

00:49:30.200 to ask the question

00:49:31.080 of whether the traditional

00:49:32.200 left versus right

00:49:33.360 distinction

00:49:33.820 really captures

00:49:34.760 the dichotomy

00:49:36.500 in our politics today

00:49:37.560 or whether it's

00:49:38.140 something different

00:49:38.800 like populist

00:49:39.920 versus elitist.

00:49:40.920 So we had a really

00:49:42.160 good conversation

00:49:42.740 about that

00:49:43.340 and then separately

00:49:44.020 I hosted a debate

00:49:45.600 on Ukraine

00:49:46.440 between Glenn

00:49:47.920 and Antonio Garcia Martinez.

00:49:51.080 Glenn opposes

00:49:52.160 our involvement

00:49:52.700 in Ukraine.

00:49:53.520 Antonio is very much

00:49:54.680 in favor of it

00:49:55.340 and those two

00:49:56.520 really went at it

00:49:57.380 and I did my best

00:49:59.380 to sort of moderate.

00:50:02.900 I like Antonio.

00:50:04.040 He came on the show

00:50:04.700 as well.

00:50:05.640 Good thinker

00:50:06.460 and has been kicked

00:50:07.200 around too much

00:50:07.800 by Silicon Valley

00:50:08.460 as well.

00:50:08.780 I mean it's a rough

00:50:10.220 business out there.

00:50:11.220 I mean it's amazing

00:50:11.640 you guys have done

00:50:12.180 as well as you have.

00:50:13.320 I was just

00:50:13.660 as I was getting ready

00:50:14.780 for the show

00:50:15.220 and reading through

00:50:16.020 like all the stuff

00:50:16.980 that you've done

00:50:17.620 and all the things

00:50:18.260 that you've invested in.

00:50:19.660 I mean hold on

00:50:20.380 I want to pull it up

00:50:20.920 because you probably

00:50:21.320 won't say it about yourselves.

00:50:23.020 I was just

00:50:23.660 it's stunning.

00:50:24.820 One of my questions

00:50:26.280 was how rich are they?

00:50:28.260 So David

00:50:29.620 you were COO of PayPal.

00:50:33.420 You were founder CEO

00:50:34.800 of Yammer.

00:50:35.820 Have you ever heard

00:50:36.240 of Yammer folks?

00:50:37.220 Well if you haven't

00:50:37.820 it was acquired

00:50:38.340 by Microsoft

00:50:38.840 for $1.2 billion.

00:50:40.600 Okay.

00:50:41.400 General partner

00:50:42.040 of Kraft Ventures

00:50:42.660 which we keep mentioning

00:50:43.400 that's a venture capital fund

00:50:44.400 that you co-founded.

00:50:45.700 Your angel investments

00:50:46.800 meaning one of the first ones

00:50:47.740 going to get it started

00:50:49.000 included

00:50:49.600 oh Facebook

00:50:50.560 Uber

00:50:52.020 SpaceX

00:50:52.940 Airbnb

00:50:53.560 those worked out okay.

00:50:55.360 You raised over

00:50:55.960 a billion dollars

00:50:56.640 and so on.

00:50:57.280 Okay.

00:50:57.680 So then Jason

00:50:58.720 who I didn't know as well

00:50:59.840 forgive me Jason

00:51:00.620 but I love that

00:51:02.760 you were born in Brooklyn

00:51:03.420 and you got a BA

00:51:04.100 in psychology

00:51:04.740 from Fordham

00:51:05.400 because at that point

00:51:06.060 your parents were probably like

00:51:07.020 oh shit.

00:51:09.340 I went at night.

00:51:10.340 It was either that

00:51:10.880 or joining the New York

00:51:11.800 police department

00:51:12.960 so those were my two choices.

00:51:14.300 Go at night

00:51:14.780 or go at NYPD

00:51:15.980 and I went at night.

00:51:17.300 Because nobody really wants

00:51:18.240 to see their kid

00:51:18.660 get a degree in psychology

00:51:19.940 because that's not really

00:51:20.800 the one that you see

00:51:21.720 you know really necessarily

00:51:22.920 going anywhere

00:51:23.580 even though it's important.

00:51:24.380 Well I was going to be

00:51:26.840 I was going to go

00:51:27.620 for the FBI

00:51:28.140 so I was going to go

00:51:28.740 for forensic psychology

00:51:29.780 at John Jay

00:51:30.400 for my master's

00:51:31.300 but then the internet

00:51:31.880 happened

00:51:32.340 and I got derailed

00:51:33.260 from my FBI career.

00:51:34.760 So you started off

00:51:35.460 as a reporter

00:51:35.940 covering the internet

00:51:36.760 industry in New York

00:51:37.720 and founder and CEO

00:51:39.820 of something called

00:51:40.340 Rising Tide Studios

00:51:41.580 a media company

00:51:42.360 and went on

00:51:43.900 to stay sort of

00:51:44.820 in the media company.

00:51:46.020 You had an angel investor

00:51:46.960 Mark Cuban

00:51:47.560 he and I have also

00:51:48.580 had some sparring

00:51:49.260 but it was fun

00:51:49.840 and then went on

00:51:51.700 to start doing

00:51:52.500 venture capital

00:51:53.240 and invested

00:51:54.500 this is what my note says

00:51:55.620 invested $25,000 in Uber

00:51:57.340 which is likely worth

00:51:58.480 about $100 million now.

00:52:00.480 Oh that's a big number Megan.

00:52:02.320 I think that's like what

00:52:03.460 half the amount

00:52:04.100 of your last contract?

00:52:05.480 I wish

00:52:07.840 but I will tell you

00:52:08.800 I was listening

00:52:09.520 to this packet

00:52:10.300 that my producers

00:52:11.360 prepare for me

00:52:12.040 in my car

00:52:13.080 you know you can set

00:52:13.680 like the read aloud thing

00:52:14.960 and my daughter

00:52:15.860 who's 11

00:52:16.400 was in there with me

00:52:17.300 and she was very impressed

00:52:19.060 at your $25,000

00:52:19.960 and really wanted me

00:52:20.920 to invest $25,000

00:52:22.140 in Uber

00:52:22.720 and then I had to

00:52:23.380 explain to her

00:52:24.000 that ship has kind of sailed

00:52:26.100 mommy doesn't have

00:52:27.200 that opportunity

00:52:27.780 in front of her right now.

00:52:30.060 You know it's

00:52:30.940 I'll tell you

00:52:31.720 it's one of the great

00:52:32.740 privileges and joys

00:52:34.340 of both of our lives

00:52:35.200 I can speak for David

00:52:35.940 on this

00:52:36.340 that we're lucky enough

00:52:37.680 to be in a position

00:52:38.420 where we get to

00:52:39.780 allocate capital

00:52:40.660 to the greatest founders

00:52:42.140 in the world

00:52:42.620 trying to solve

00:52:43.380 the world's biggest problems

00:52:44.520 and we take it

00:52:46.480 very seriously

00:52:46.960 because we meet

00:52:48.360 with hundreds

00:52:48.940 of founders

00:52:50.180 each year

00:52:50.820 both of our firms

00:52:51.740 and we sort that down

00:52:54.060 from thousands

00:52:55.040 to tens of thousands

00:52:56.140 of pitches

00:52:56.820 and we have to do

00:52:59.080 the hard work

00:52:59.600 of making bets

00:53:00.740 that are non-consensus

00:53:02.200 that are long shots

00:53:03.240 and hoping they work out

00:53:04.400 for every Uber you hit

00:53:05.460 you know

00:53:06.200 there's going to be

00:53:07.360 you know

00:53:08.260 hundreds of others

00:53:09.720 that you know

00:53:10.500 fail

00:53:10.780 and so

00:53:11.440 it's a very hard job

00:53:12.760 luck is part of it

00:53:13.960 but really consistently

00:53:15.660 investing over time

00:53:16.640 is the secret

00:53:17.200 to being good

00:53:18.140 at this game

00:53:18.580 and having a great process

00:53:19.660 David's got a great process

00:53:20.780 my team's got a great process

00:53:22.200 and

00:53:23.840 I know this is

00:53:24.460 we live at a great moment

00:53:25.500 in time

00:53:25.880 more than you can

00:53:26.320 give me in a short time

00:53:27.420 but like

00:53:27.780 what would you say

00:53:28.760 is the difference

00:53:29.140 because I know

00:53:30.000 you know

00:53:30.700 one of these

00:53:31.360 a pitch comes in

00:53:32.720 from somebody's got

00:53:33.300 a great idea

00:53:33.880 and nine times out of ten

00:53:35.100 it probably sounds insane

00:53:36.040 you know

00:53:36.480 all these great companies

00:53:37.300 that we're looking at here

00:53:38.140 like SpaceX

00:53:38.700 what that sounds insane

00:53:39.860 right

00:53:40.240 you have that

00:53:40.640 that's your initial reaction

00:53:41.620 so how do you figure out

00:53:43.460 no that one really is insane

00:53:44.840 and this one

00:53:46.360 we could make happen

00:53:47.100 does it boil down

00:53:48.100 to the founder

00:53:49.240 you know

00:53:49.600 the guy or gal

00:53:50.420 standing in front of you

00:53:51.280 yeah I mean

00:53:52.580 there's really three things

00:53:53.620 at its core

00:53:54.260 there's a team

00:53:55.000 that produces a product

00:53:56.120 that ultimately

00:53:57.120 touches a consumer

00:53:58.420 and those are the only

00:53:59.760 three things

00:54:00.320 that matter in this

00:54:01.200 people will use

00:54:02.680 fancy terms

00:54:03.320 like market

00:54:03.940 or total addressable market

00:54:05.500 and when it comes down

00:54:07.020 to it

00:54:07.200 you're betting on

00:54:07.780 a founder

00:54:08.200 and their team

00:54:08.920 or the ability

00:54:09.520 to recruit a team

00:54:10.300 to make a world-class product

00:54:11.580 and to not give up

00:54:12.780 and to delight customers

00:54:14.160 and it's pretty basic

00:54:15.500 in that regard

00:54:16.260 and then what you're doing

00:54:18.440 is we have a milestone-based system

00:54:20.020 and this is why capitalism

00:54:20.940 is absolutely fantastic

00:54:22.200 and I believe in America

00:54:23.940 more now than ever

00:54:24.880 is because

00:54:25.420 this merit-based system

00:54:27.340 people can do

00:54:28.260 just a little bit of work

00:54:29.640 and all of the lessons

00:54:31.020 on how to build a company

00:54:31.980 are online

00:54:32.540 they're on YouTube

00:54:33.220 they're on various services

00:54:35.040 available for free

00:54:36.260 I never had a chance

00:54:37.900 to go to MIT

00:54:38.520 but I listened to MIT lectures

00:54:40.220 in my spare time

00:54:41.320 for fun

00:54:41.740 all the world's information

00:54:43.460 is now indexed

00:54:44.380 on YouTube

00:54:44.780 and other platforms

00:54:45.580 and you can learn

00:54:46.640 these skills at home

00:54:47.660 in just a couple of months

00:54:48.880 and build a prototype

00:54:50.040 and if you build

00:54:51.400 a great prototype

00:54:52.120 and you get a couple

00:54:53.220 of customers

00:54:53.780 maybe to embrace

00:54:54.600 what's called an MVP

00:54:55.400 a minimum viable product

00:54:56.840 you can bring that

00:54:58.340 to angel investors

00:54:59.820 those investors

00:55:00.840 might give you

00:55:01.340 25, 50k

00:55:02.520 and you get 10 of them

00:55:03.360 now you hire

00:55:04.260 an employee or two

00:55:05.180 and then you go

00:55:06.340 downstream to Saks

00:55:07.720 maybe Saks puts in

00:55:08.620 a million or two million dollars

00:55:09.860 three million dollars

00:55:10.840 and each milestone

00:55:12.860 you have a chance

00:55:13.620 to raise more money

00:55:14.320 and so it's an absolutely

00:55:16.480 beautiful and chaotic system

00:55:18.460 and capitalism

00:55:19.920 is alive and well

00:55:21.400 in America

00:55:21.840 and opportunity

00:55:22.540 is actually

00:55:23.440 more fair

00:55:24.560 and more distributed

00:55:25.780 than it's ever been

00:55:26.640 but we live

00:55:27.300 with a narrative today

00:55:28.400 that the world

00:55:29.400 is more biased

00:55:30.180 and there's more gatekeepers

00:55:31.840 and it's simply not true

00:55:33.160 this is the most open

00:55:35.580 capitalism

00:55:36.640 and entrepreneurship

00:55:37.520 has ever been

00:55:38.920 any skill you want to learn

00:55:40.280 is available for free

00:55:41.480 if you have an Android phone

00:55:43.500 that costs about 50 to 200 dollars

00:55:46.220 and you have a connection

00:55:47.200 which costs 25 to 50 bucks a month

00:55:49.280 it could not be more equitable

00:55:51.620 than it is today

00:55:52.600 it never has been

00:55:53.720 so if you're out there listening

00:55:54.720 and you want to start a company

00:55:55.740 just learn how to build websites

00:55:57.740 or be a designer

00:55:58.760 a product manager

00:56:00.220 and get a couple of friends together

00:56:01.540 and start building something

00:56:03.260 that you want to see in the world

00:56:04.380 it's really that simple

00:56:05.200 it's exciting

00:56:05.940 I mean I

00:56:06.600 it's very exciting

00:56:07.240 I think one of the businesses

00:56:08.380 you were in

00:56:09.060 yeah Facebook

00:56:10.280 as I mentioned

00:56:10.860 you wound up

00:56:12.180 disinvesting from

00:56:13.280 back in 2018

00:56:14.140 now why was that

00:56:16.200 was that political

00:56:16.920 you know

00:56:17.280 is it like during the Trump

00:56:18.160 I heard you speak with

00:56:19.220 Kara Swisher

00:56:20.540 about who I also

00:56:21.740 she's fun and irascible

00:56:22.860 in a good way

00:56:23.560 but what was the story

00:56:24.640 behind that pull out

00:56:25.400 in 18

00:56:26.060 well I

00:56:27.540 you know

00:56:27.960 I

00:56:28.320 I

00:56:29.020 didn't like a lot

00:56:30.380 of Facebook's behavior

00:56:31.200 I wasn't originally an investor

00:56:32.400 I invested in another company

00:56:33.720 that got acquired

00:56:34.420 by

00:56:34.860 Facebook

00:56:36.140 and I

00:56:37.100 just thought

00:56:38.000 Zuckerberg's

00:56:39.100 process of releasing products

00:56:41.340 was not very thoughtful

00:56:42.360 and I probably left a modest amount

00:56:44.680 on the table

00:56:45.160 but it's probably a good trade overall

00:56:46.520 and I just haven't been a fan

00:56:48.580 of the way he

00:56:49.300 moves fast

00:56:50.020 and breaks things

00:56:50.780 I think he could be a lot more

00:56:51.740 considerate in how he built products

00:56:53.340 and we've seen that over time

00:56:54.800 you know

00:56:55.660 you know

00:56:56.460 social media is a very hard business

00:56:59.080 to run

00:56:59.660 and we've seen that

00:57:01.300 so

00:57:01.600 you know

00:57:02.380 it's not just him

00:57:03.520 but I think he could have been

00:57:04.440 a lot more thoughtful

00:57:05.100 and you know

00:57:05.740 I like to vote with my dollar

00:57:06.720 on businesses

00:57:07.260 that I think are world positive

00:57:08.480 and founders

00:57:09.660 I think are world positive

00:57:10.500 and I just haven't been a fan

00:57:11.540 of how

00:57:11.820 he's obviously excellent

00:57:13.440 at what he does though

00:57:14.180 as somebody who's not

00:57:15.240 in that industry at all

00:57:16.200 I wonder

00:57:16.820 you know

00:57:17.200 you hear these reports

00:57:18.220 of for example

00:57:18.880 Instagram

00:57:19.540 you know

00:57:20.100 causing

00:57:20.880 massive depression

00:57:22.360 amongst huge swaths

00:57:23.580 of young girls

00:57:24.200 and obviously

00:57:25.820 what Facebook does as well

00:57:26.840 the manipulation

00:57:27.980 and trying to get in your head

00:57:29.200 and walking

00:57:29.600 you know

00:57:29.880 trying to make it more addictive

00:57:30.820 and trying to get more

00:57:31.560 and more of your time

00:57:32.260 without much care

00:57:33.480 for mental health

00:57:34.860 and I can see

00:57:35.580 the capitalist argument

00:57:36.460 you know

00:57:36.820 like

00:57:37.060 pure capitalism

00:57:38.080 might not factor that in

00:57:39.160 it might

00:57:39.680 you can make another argument too

00:57:40.780 but

00:57:41.020 do you think he cares

00:57:42.700 about any of that

00:57:43.360 I mean

00:57:43.540 maybe that's a simple question

00:57:44.620 but do you think

00:57:45.080 he gives a damn

00:57:45.740 I think

00:57:48.000 he probably wanted to win

00:57:49.620 more than he cared

00:57:50.340 about those things

00:57:51.120 and the techniques

00:57:52.040 of winning

00:57:52.520 you know

00:57:52.940 sometimes are to remove friction

00:57:54.240 and get people addicted

00:57:55.100 to these products

00:57:55.800 I don't think it's limited

00:57:57.040 to social media

00:57:57.680 I think all screen time

00:57:58.780 you know

00:57:59.060 too much screen time

00:57:59.860 is not good for your health

00:58:00.920 I think it's probably

00:58:01.700 one of the reasons

00:58:02.200 we're seeing increases

00:58:03.060 in anxiety

00:58:03.800 and depression

00:58:04.320 amongst kids

00:58:04.980 and they should really

00:58:06.980 be out with their friends

00:58:08.020 in nature

00:58:08.640 and doing activities

00:58:09.880 I think anybody

00:58:10.440 who's got kids

00:58:11.260 understands this

00:58:12.600 when your kids

00:58:13.020 use an iPad

00:58:13.540 for too long

00:58:14.280 you know

00:58:14.540 maybe you get

00:58:15.000 a little permissive

00:58:15.620 on a weekend

00:58:16.080 and you don't have

00:58:17.400 some help

00:58:17.860 to you know

00:58:18.480 watch the kids

00:58:19.120 or something

00:58:19.500 you don't have

00:58:19.840 an activity set up

00:58:20.500 for that day

00:58:21.000 kids get weird

00:58:22.080 if they spend

00:58:22.460 too much time online

00:58:23.300 adults get weird

00:58:24.300 if they spend

00:58:24.620 too much time online

00:58:25.460 so I think

00:58:26.340 we're navigating

00:58:26.800 that as a species

00:58:27.740 really

00:58:28.180 and you really

00:58:29.300 think have to

00:58:29.920 monitor screen time

00:58:30.780 limit it

00:58:31.300 both for yourself

00:58:32.280 and for your kids

00:58:33.460 if you look

00:58:33.840 at the Chinese government

00:58:34.680 they've passed

00:58:36.220 an edict

00:58:36.600 that you can't

00:58:37.440 play video games

00:58:38.320 but on the weekends

00:58:39.520 and for a certain

00:58:40.180 number of hours

00:58:40.960 now we have

00:58:42.840 personal freedom

00:58:43.400 here in America

00:58:43.940 you can never

00:58:44.380 pass a law like that

00:58:45.360 but I think

00:58:46.020 they probably

00:58:47.700 know something

00:58:48.840 and they have

00:58:50.600 a concern

00:58:51.060 that's very valid

00:58:51.880 which is kids

00:58:52.520 who play

00:58:52.940 too many video games

00:58:54.020 or on social media

00:58:55.000 too often

00:58:55.460 or even adults

00:58:56.340 who are addicted

00:58:56.740 to these screens

00:58:57.340 life can get

00:58:58.780 a little anxious

00:58:59.920 and we need

00:59:01.800 as human beings

00:59:02.740 to be more social

00:59:03.500 and to meet more people

00:59:04.360 and spend time

00:59:04.820 with our friends

00:59:05.320 that's why I always

00:59:05.900 take David out to dinner

00:59:06.760 and give him a big hug

00:59:07.960 when I see him

00:59:08.800 wait so where are you

00:59:10.360 living now

00:59:10.860 oh we both live

00:59:12.320 in the Bay Area

00:59:12.920 okay okay

00:59:13.780 so you just got out

00:59:14.400 of San Francisco

00:59:14.680 I left San Francisco

00:59:15.600 the city

00:59:16.140 because you know

00:59:17.380 and I'll probably

00:59:18.420 wind up leaving

00:59:19.060 California

00:59:19.620 for Austin

00:59:21.000 or for Miami

00:59:21.820 soon

00:59:22.200 because I actually

00:59:23.460 think my thesis

00:59:24.180 is that the

00:59:25.740 California problems

00:59:26.940 and this is why

00:59:28.280 I'm watching

00:59:28.540 the Chesa Boudin

00:59:29.280 thing

00:59:29.580 and the governor's race

00:59:30.520 I don't know

00:59:31.720 that it can be solved

00:59:32.680 in the next 10

00:59:34.000 or 20 years

00:59:34.620 having lived through

00:59:35.200 New York

00:59:35.520 in the 70s

00:59:36.060 and 80s

00:59:36.480 and watched

00:59:36.940 you know

00:59:37.180 how long

00:59:37.540 that took

00:59:37.980 to work out

00:59:38.680 I think this might

00:59:39.880 be a multi-decade

00:59:40.840 decline

00:59:41.460 and we might be

00:59:42.100 only halfway

00:59:43.060 into the first

00:59:43.840 you know

00:59:44.160 half of California's

00:59:45.120 decline

00:59:45.400 I think you're right

00:59:46.380 I mean honestly

00:59:46.840 I felt the same

00:59:48.500 about New York City

00:59:49.040 it's heartbreaking

00:59:49.480 I felt the same

00:59:50.220 about New York City

00:59:50.800 you know

00:59:51.020 New York City

00:59:51.440 has gone

00:59:52.460 just crazy

00:59:53.480 in its politics

00:59:54.260 and defunded

00:59:55.560 its police

00:59:55.960 by a billion dollars

00:59:56.840 and you know

00:59:57.440 homelessness everywhere

00:59:58.420 and you know

00:59:59.480 it's like

00:59:59.740 we were getting

01:00:00.400 approached by

01:00:01.020 truly deranged

01:00:01.800 people on the street

01:00:02.460 all the time

01:00:03.020 where my kids

01:00:03.480 didn't know

01:00:03.800 whether to run

01:00:04.500 whether they

01:00:05.300 you know

01:00:05.500 are they in danger

01:00:06.260 and you know

01:00:07.020 I didn't know

01:00:07.580 either

01:00:07.900 you know

01:00:08.180 it's like all of it

01:00:08.880 you're thinking

01:00:09.360 what am I paying

01:00:10.120 this you know

01:00:11.460 this amount of taxes

01:00:12.380 for

01:00:12.880 and

01:00:13.220 and on the police

01:00:14.940 on the DA's

01:00:16.300 it's not like

01:00:17.100 sanitation

01:00:17.600 sanitation is a major

01:00:18.700 irritation of mine

01:00:19.500 in New York City

01:00:20.020 it's disgusting

01:00:20.680 I don't know

01:00:21.100 if you've been

01:00:21.360 in New York recently

01:00:21.980 but it's like

01:00:22.520 the on ramps

01:00:23.300 the off ramps

01:00:23.980 on any bridge

01:00:24.780 tunnel etc

01:00:25.320 to get into the city

01:00:26.160 and then you get

01:00:26.880 into the city

01:00:27.280 and it's almost as bad

01:00:28.140 are absolutely

01:00:29.640 covered with trash

01:00:31.640 I mean

01:00:31.980 heaps

01:00:32.620 mountains of trash

01:00:34.120 we pay

01:00:35.220 we pay

01:00:35.980 for this

01:00:36.660 you know

01:00:36.940 for the trash removal

01:00:38.080 all the plastic bags

01:00:39.440 now

01:00:39.780 adorning

01:00:41.180 the New York City

01:00:41.800 trees

01:00:42.200 as though

01:00:42.500 they're Christmas

01:00:42.960 ornaments

01:00:43.400 you know

01:00:43.760 because they

01:00:44.180 sanitation

01:00:44.740 doesn't take

01:00:45.240 them down

01:00:45.500 anymore

01:00:45.780 it's blight

01:00:46.980 you know

01:00:47.320 and it's depressing

01:00:48.160 and it worries me

01:00:49.960 but

01:00:50.380 it's not going

01:00:51.560 to kill anybody

01:00:52.260 you know

01:00:52.840 I mean

01:00:53.120 it's not going

01:00:53.940 to kill anybody

01:00:54.440 and that's why

01:00:54.800 the police strain

01:00:55.800 is so

01:00:56.340 so dangerous

01:00:57.860 I want to go back

01:00:58.660 to your business

01:00:59.100 backgrounds

01:00:59.420 but Dave

01:00:59.740 before we do that

01:01:00.340 let's

01:01:00.560 let's talk about

01:01:01.140 LA for one second

01:01:01.960 because the

01:01:02.900 DA there

01:01:03.680 the soft on crime

01:01:04.340 DA George

01:01:05.060 I always want

01:01:05.840 to call him

01:01:06.160 Gaston

01:01:06.660 right

01:01:07.080 because

01:01:07.440 because of

01:01:09.660 Beauty and the Beast

01:01:11.160 but it's

01:01:12.200 Gascon

01:01:12.600 and he is

01:01:14.240 like a Chesapeadean

01:01:15.260 now he's not

01:01:15.920 facing a recall

01:01:16.960 today

01:01:17.420 but he is facing

01:01:18.520 a second recall

01:01:19.400 effort

01:01:19.920 which like

01:01:21.260 with Chesapeadean

01:01:21.960 has the support

01:01:22.560 of many deputy

01:01:23.200 prosecutors

01:01:23.640 in his own office

01:01:24.480 there's a petition

01:01:25.660 to get him recalled

01:01:26.560 500,000 signatures

01:01:28.420 they've surpassed

01:01:30.000 that last week

01:01:30.680 they need

01:01:31.640 67,000 more

01:01:33.020 by July 6th

01:01:34.620 to secure

01:01:35.360 a vote

01:01:35.740 I guess

01:01:36.140 now this guy

01:01:37.820 similar to what

01:01:39.380 we were just

01:01:39.700 talking about

01:01:40.060 about looking

01:01:40.720 at the cases

01:01:41.240 in San Fran

01:01:41.780 there was a woman

01:01:43.340 she's only known

01:01:45.040 as Rachel

01:01:45.520 she was pushing

01:01:46.240 pushing her son

01:01:47.260 Charlie in a stroller

01:01:48.480 through the Venice

01:01:50.380 neighborhood of LA

01:01:51.120 we have the video

01:01:52.820 of it

01:01:53.060 it's downright alarming

01:01:54.280 this is via Daily Mail

01:01:55.160 in New York Post

01:01:55.760 this car comes

01:01:57.620 out of nowhere

01:01:58.120 it's a narrow alley

01:01:59.060 but she's on the

01:01:59.660 small sidewalk there

01:02:00.600 you can see

01:02:01.040 oh my god

01:02:01.760 oh my god

01:02:02.880 I mean

01:02:03.500 he has plenty

01:02:04.320 of room

01:02:04.700 to stay away

01:02:05.500 from her

01:02:05.860 he runs over

01:02:07.380 this woman

01:02:07.880 and her baby

01:02:08.880 I want to tell

01:02:09.560 everybody they lived

01:02:10.280 amazingly

01:02:11.700 they both lived

01:02:13.260 she tried to get

01:02:14.400 out of the way

01:02:14.760 but it almost

01:02:15.580 seemed like he was

01:02:16.120 trying to mow her down

01:02:16.980 and that's certainly

01:02:18.800 what she thinks

01:02:19.400 now his full name

01:02:20.280 was never released

01:02:20.940 only his initials

01:02:21.740 KB

01:02:22.060 and she gave

01:02:24.200 a victim

01:02:24.980 impact statement

01:02:26.120 and if you guys

01:02:26.720 will forgive me

01:02:27.300 I'm going to read

01:02:27.780 part of it

01:02:28.240 because there are

01:02:29.000 no cameras

01:02:29.400 in the courtroom

01:02:29.840 but we have

01:02:31.840 the transcript

01:02:32.420 and she says

01:02:34.480 August 6th

01:02:35.660 2021

01:02:36.160 that's the day

01:02:36.900 KB tried to murder

01:02:37.880 me and my

01:02:38.820 eight month old

01:02:39.440 baby

01:02:39.840 as the car

01:02:41.240 got dangerously

01:02:41.860 close to us

01:02:42.420 KB turned the

01:02:43.020 wheels in our

01:02:43.380 direction and

01:02:43.860 accelerated as he

01:02:44.980 aimed to kill us

01:02:45.620 I screamed at the

01:02:46.640 top of my lungs

01:02:47.180 for him to stop

01:02:47.800 I made eye contact

01:02:48.580 with him

01:02:48.960 his face had no

01:02:50.020 look of fear

01:02:50.560 surprise or regret

01:02:51.460 he stared right at

01:02:52.400 me with a look

01:02:53.120 of intention

01:02:53.620 I have fragments

01:02:54.920 of memories

01:02:55.380 of watching the

01:02:55.980 car hit us

01:02:56.520 me hitting the

01:02:57.100 windshield

01:02:57.500 with my body

01:02:58.580 and head

01:02:59.060 hitting the

01:02:59.720 ground

01:03:00.000 I saw a tire

01:03:01.100 as I fell to

01:03:01.620 the ground

01:03:01.900 thought my head

01:03:02.460 would get run

01:03:02.980 over

01:03:03.280 that my life

01:03:04.080 was over

01:03:04.440 I assume my

01:03:05.040 baby was already

01:03:06.240 dead

01:03:06.600 we're indeed

01:03:07.720 very fortunate

01:03:08.260 to be alive

01:03:08.860 but make no

01:03:09.340 mistake my son

01:03:10.040 would be dead

01:03:10.460 if it weren't

01:03:10.860 for my actions

01:03:11.520 in those last

01:03:12.060 moments

01:03:12.440 had I not

01:03:13.740 thrown my child

01:03:14.540 into the air

01:03:15.200 and instead

01:03:15.680 had left him

01:03:16.420 on the ground

01:03:16.800 in his stroller

01:03:17.460 KB would have

01:03:18.700 succeeded in

01:03:19.180 killing my baby

01:03:19.840 by driving the

01:03:20.460 nose of his

01:03:20.880 stolen car right

01:03:21.840 into my child's

01:03:22.580 face

01:03:22.880 he tried to

01:03:23.940 kill us for

01:03:24.360 sport

01:03:24.760 and if you look

01:03:25.960 at the still

01:03:26.540 grab we have

01:03:27.240 of the actual

01:03:27.820 moment of

01:03:28.460 impact

01:03:28.920 you will see

01:03:30.100 and for our

01:03:31.300 listening audience

01:03:31.820 check it out

01:03:32.260 on our YouTube

01:03:32.720 feed later

01:03:33.220 but what you

01:03:33.640 see is the

01:03:34.100 car

01:03:34.380 you see the

01:03:34.880 mom on her

01:03:36.260 left side

01:03:37.060 on the

01:03:37.460 windshield

01:03:37.760 being hit

01:03:38.420 and you see

01:03:39.520 the stroller

01:03:39.960 wheels up

01:03:40.640 and you'll

01:03:41.620 see a white

01:03:42.740 thing close

01:03:44.460 to the front

01:03:45.100 wheel of the

01:03:45.860 car and close

01:03:46.500 to the ground

01:03:46.940 that white

01:03:47.380 thing is the

01:03:47.840 eight-month-old

01:03:48.360 boy

01:03:48.660 that's her

01:03:49.680 baby

01:03:50.020 whose head

01:03:50.920 looks like

01:03:52.240 it's about

01:03:52.500 to get run

01:03:52.880 over by the

01:03:53.280 back tire

01:03:53.740 I mean

01:03:54.740 it's a

01:03:55.840 miracle

01:03:56.620 a miracle

01:03:57.700 that this

01:03:58.760 mother and

01:03:59.120 child

01:03:59.440 lived

01:04:00.420 she goes

01:04:01.480 on to say

01:04:02.180 I was shocked

01:04:03.820 to find my

01:04:04.220 baby alive

01:04:04.760 afterward

01:04:05.120 screaming

01:04:05.760 thankfully still

01:04:06.940 strapped into

01:04:07.460 his stroller

01:04:07.940 I was dumbfounded

01:04:09.220 when I learned

01:04:09.700 KB had only

01:04:10.560 been cited

01:04:11.220 out and

01:04:12.240 was never

01:04:12.800 arrested for

01:04:13.860 our attempted

01:04:14.420 murder

01:04:15.140 she's she's

01:04:17.160 very angry

01:04:18.400 about that

01:04:19.280 saying I've

01:04:19.720 never felt so

01:04:20.280 victimized as I

01:04:21.000 have by this

01:04:21.460 system and

01:04:22.200 current policies

01:04:22.840 of L.A.'s

01:04:23.400 D.A.

01:04:23.920 George Gascon

01:04:24.580 my heart breaks

01:04:25.760 when I think

01:04:26.100 about all the

01:04:26.520 other victims

01:04:27.000 out there less

01:04:27.500 fortunate than

01:04:28.180 me whose

01:04:29.180 murderers are

01:04:29.820 getting lenient

01:04:30.340 sentences and

01:04:31.040 being released

01:04:31.720 from prison

01:04:32.160 before their

01:04:33.040 sentences are

01:04:33.520 complete

01:04:33.980 complete

01:04:34.660 when I met

01:04:35.920 with the

01:04:36.200 juvenile D.A.

01:04:37.360 in Englewood

01:04:37.760 I was told

01:04:38.300 Gascon's policy

01:04:39.160 of quote

01:04:39.540 delivering the

01:04:40.280 lightest touch

01:04:40.780 possible for

01:04:41.760 minors would

01:04:42.900 prevent us from

01:04:43.700 ever seeing any

01:04:44.520 justice

01:04:44.940 what about my

01:04:46.200 child also a

01:04:47.420 minor he was

01:04:48.400 eight months old

01:04:49.120 when KB tried

01:04:50.180 to kill him

01:04:50.780 I was also

01:04:52.320 told that his

01:04:52.880 record would be

01:04:53.520 wiped clean

01:04:54.220 when he turned

01:04:55.320 18 how on

01:04:56.860 earth can that

01:04:57.460 be he tried to

01:04:58.340 murder two

01:04:59.000 innocent

01:04:59.580 pedestrians

01:05:00.300 murder and

01:05:01.760 we have video

01:05:02.480 evidence and

01:05:04.100 she goes on

01:05:04.740 from there

01:05:05.020 basically this

01:05:05.580 guy got a

01:05:05.940 slap on the

01:05:06.340 wrist he was

01:05:06.800 treated as a

01:05:07.380 juvenile and

01:05:08.780 the D.A.

01:05:10.120 really had no

01:05:10.920 qualms about

01:05:11.560 it saying

01:05:12.200 trying to find

01:05:13.460 the exact

01:05:13.780 quote but

01:05:14.420 unapologetically

01:05:16.020 saying he

01:05:16.840 he was a

01:05:17.660 minor and

01:05:18.300 this was the

01:05:18.800 right course

01:05:19.200 not to throw

01:05:19.620 the book at

01:05:20.000 him that's

01:05:21.000 where it

01:05:21.240 stood so

01:05:22.200 it's not

01:05:23.520 San Francisco

01:05:24.100 it's not

01:05:25.540 LA it's

01:05:26.620 California and

01:05:28.140 it's other

01:05:28.480 states too who

01:05:29.280 have on a

01:05:30.880 massive basis

01:05:31.620 taken this

01:05:32.560 approach of

01:05:33.180 he didn't

01:05:34.140 mean it he's

01:05:35.300 too young to

01:05:35.980 really throw

01:05:36.320 the book

01:05:36.700 at we

01:05:38.260 we've been

01:05:38.740 too tough on

01:05:39.260 criminals and

01:05:40.560 you've got real

01:05:41.080 life victims who

01:05:41.740 are starting to

01:05:42.220 stand up

01:05:42.720 absolutely and

01:05:46.200 you know the

01:05:47.400 way that

01:05:47.940 Gascogne got

01:05:48.540 elected in

01:05:49.120 LA he was

01:05:50.020 actually the

01:05:50.560 DA in San

01:05:51.160 Francisco that's

01:05:51.900 where he came

01:05:52.340 from he went

01:05:53.640 down to LA to

01:05:54.900 run against a

01:05:55.860 veteran experienced

01:05:56.900 DA named

01:05:58.460 Jackie Lacey who

01:05:59.380 happens to be a

01:05:59.940 black woman and

01:06:01.400 Gascogne was

01:06:02.220 supported by

01:06:03.620 Soros and

01:06:04.700 Reed Hastings

01:06:05.460 and basically

01:06:06.640 billionaires who

01:06:08.220 don't live in

01:06:09.220 LA it's out of

01:06:10.680 town money they

01:06:11.420 don't have to

01:06:11.720 live with the

01:06:12.040 consequences of

01:06:13.280 their policies and

01:06:14.760 he replaced this

01:06:15.700 extremely experienced

01:06:16.940 DA and so you

01:06:19.540 know we had this

01:06:19.960 black woman replaced

01:06:20.720 with this

01:06:20.980 incompetent white

01:06:21.700 man and we

01:06:22.620 never heard

01:06:22.940 anything about

01:06:23.620 this being

01:06:24.160 institutional racism

01:06:25.040 so you know it's

01:06:26.460 been a real

01:06:26.840 disaster and we've

01:06:28.620 seen the consequences

01:06:29.620 of these these

01:06:30.520 policies and you've

01:06:32.040 seen now a

01:06:32.700 rebellion by the

01:06:33.660 Hollywood left

01:06:34.320 against Gascogne

01:06:35.320 as a result of

01:06:36.420 the case you're

01:06:37.200 talking about there

01:06:37.920 was a case of a

01:06:38.920 young woman

01:06:39.400 Brianna Kupfer who

01:06:41.060 was working in a

01:06:42.420 furniture store and

01:06:43.300 just was randomly

01:06:44.400 attacked by a

01:06:45.760 deranged homeless

01:06:46.400 person and stabbed

01:06:47.140 to death there was

01:06:48.140 a case there's been

01:06:49.180 a rash of these

01:06:50.560 follow home armed

01:06:53.000 robberies that took

01:06:54.520 the life of a

01:06:55.280 world-renowned

01:06:55.860 person Jacqueline

01:06:56.700 Avant you know

01:06:58.260 criminals followed her

01:06:59.080 home and she was

01:07:00.180 shot to death so

01:07:01.400 people in LA are

01:07:02.460 getting scared and

01:07:04.100 there's been a

01:07:05.440 bunch of

01:07:05.740 applications for

01:07:06.800 for people in LA

01:07:08.440 who are never into

01:07:09.080 guns before to

01:07:09.820 basically become

01:07:10.400 first-time gun

01:07:11.280 buyers so yeah I

01:07:13.080 mean you're starting

01:07:13.760 to see a real

01:07:14.320 rebellion by the

01:07:15.720 citizens of these

01:07:16.420 cities against these

01:07:17.860 DAs who really got

01:07:19.420 elected with out-of-town

01:07:21.180 billionaire money

01:07:22.100 yeah that's right

01:07:23.360 and George

01:07:24.140 George will never

01:07:24.720 see the effects of

01:07:25.340 these policies that

01:07:26.160 these DAs are

01:07:26.780 putting into effect

01:07:27.560 and she this this

01:07:28.920 woman because this

01:07:29.580 her perpetrator was

01:07:31.360 just sentenced last

01:07:32.000 Thursday she was

01:07:32.960 asked to speak after

01:07:34.060 he was sentenced so

01:07:35.140 she she gets to give

01:07:36.160 her victim impact

01:07:36.940 statement after the

01:07:37.720 sentence already been

01:07:38.420 has already been

01:07:39.160 handed down that

01:07:40.260 doesn't do her any

01:07:40.840 good they sentenced

01:07:42.580 him five to seven

01:07:44.420 months at a youth

01:07:46.100 camp juvenile

01:07:47.440 probation camp this

01:07:49.080 guy who literally

01:07:50.580 tries to mow over a

01:07:52.320 woman in her eight

01:07:53.140 month old baby they

01:07:54.580 said oh look

01:07:55.360 fortunately

01:07:55.960 Gascon's office said

01:07:57.080 the baby was

01:07:57.940 uninjured and the

01:07:58.920 mother received a

01:07:59.560 laceration to her

01:08:00.420 elbow I mean

01:08:01.480 absolutely no

01:08:03.220 empathy for crime

01:08:05.240 victims only for

01:08:06.740 those who perpetrate

01:08:07.520 them and so you

01:08:09.140 know we see it city

01:08:10.240 by city state by

01:08:11.320 state George Soros I

01:08:13.060 don't know I he lives

01:08:14.120 I'm sure in a very

01:08:14.740 nice neighborhood he's

01:08:15.720 never going to be made

01:08:16.360 to pay but it's not

01:08:17.460 just him you know I've

01:08:18.360 talked about this

01:08:18.760 before I had a meeting

01:08:21.080 with a billionaire here

01:08:22.120 in New York who I

01:08:22.680 will do the courtesy of

01:08:23.460 not naming and I was

01:08:26.240 just given access to

01:08:26.940 him to talk about

01:08:27.420 media talk about future

01:08:28.300 talk about you know

01:08:29.040 sort of where he

01:08:29.580 thinks things are going

01:08:30.840 and this guy was one

01:08:32.500 of the main funders of

01:08:34.020 the no bail policy in

01:08:35.380 New York he was like

01:08:36.260 this is my only mission

01:08:37.380 and why it because it

01:08:39.560 makes him feel like a

01:08:40.280 social justice warrior

01:08:41.120 it made him feel better

01:08:42.760 like he was doing

01:08:43.580 something for the

01:08:45.260 black community for

01:08:46.260 people who have been

01:08:46.820 unfairly you know

01:08:47.940 punished by police in the

01:08:48.860 past and so on and of

01:08:50.580 course the stats that

01:08:51.180 were just released a

01:08:51.780 couple months ago by the

01:08:52.420 DA or by the FBI show

01:08:54.460 that the people who

01:08:55.000 have been hurt more

01:08:56.060 than ever by the

01:08:56.800 increase in crime over

01:08:58.180 the past couple of

01:08:58.780 years in the wake of

01:08:59.320 these policies are

01:09:00.020 black and brown people

01:09:00.780 so there'll be no

01:09:01.700 accountability for that

01:09:02.560 yeah I mean it's it's

01:09:07.380 it's the case that as

01:09:08.460 with the whole defund

01:09:09.460 the police movement

01:09:10.400 this sort of

01:09:11.600 decarceration movement

01:09:12.680 the zero bail movement

01:09:13.900 is supported by

01:09:15.140 generally upscale

01:09:16.780 well-to-do white

01:09:17.780 progressives and who

01:09:19.620 you know are very

01:09:20.280 insulated from the

01:09:21.060 effects of these policies

01:09:22.020 and when you actually

01:09:22.940 pull the communities

01:09:24.580 who are most impacted

01:09:25.620 they are very much

01:09:27.700 against these policies

01:09:28.540 and the defund

01:09:30.560 movement just like the

01:09:31.400 decarcerate movement

01:09:32.240 they come from the

01:09:33.260 same place of this

01:09:34.140 misguided sort of

01:09:36.180 progressivism

01:09:37.440 let's be clear you know

01:09:39.440 David Sachs backs you

01:09:41.300 know politicians all over

01:09:42.520 the country so I mean

01:09:44.380 this isn't just a matter

01:09:46.080 of you know people

01:09:48.000 backing people from

01:09:49.980 other states Sachs does

01:09:51.480 this every day of the

01:09:52.280 week so well but you

01:09:53.680 know but that that's

01:09:54.660 interesting point because

01:09:55.560 I never thought I mean I

01:09:56.980 do contribute to national

01:09:59.180 races where

01:10:00.320 local ones too

01:10:01.100 and local ones but I

01:10:02.740 don't contribute to local

01:10:04.360 races where I don't live

01:10:06.080 so it was

01:10:08.160 are you claiming that you

01:10:09.240 have many homes

01:10:09.900 I do yeah so

01:10:12.000 where's J.D. Vance

01:10:12.720 running

01:10:13.200 J.D. Vance is running in

01:10:15.920 Ohio but he's running for

01:10:17.060 Ohio no but he's running

01:10:19.040 for the United States

01:10:19.620 Senate and that vote is

01:10:20.820 going to impact that makes

01:10:21.680 it different that's a

01:10:22.480 national election Jason

01:10:23.680 got it I never I never in

01:10:25.640 a million years would have

01:10:26.520 thought to fund a local

01:10:28.740 DA or say mayor's race in

01:10:30.820 a city in which I had no

01:10:32.560 nexus in which I did not

01:10:33.940 live or work and this has

01:10:36.300 been a a strategy of these

01:10:39.380 left-wing progressive

01:10:40.100 groups which is to change

01:10:41.380 policy across the nation by

01:10:43.660 flooding these local races

01:10:45.840 that people never

01:10:46.760 previously paid much

01:10:47.720 attention to they didn't

01:10:48.940 realize how important

01:10:50.020 these races were

01:10:51.180 well I can't I can't speak

01:10:54.260 for that I never thought

01:10:55.160 to do it

01:10:55.620 oh okay

01:10:56.520 well here's what I think

01:10:57.200 is nuts here's what I

01:10:58.120 think is disturbing we've

01:10:59.860 seen the crime rates go up

01:11:01.280 in our major cities and

01:11:02.360 the in particular the

01:11:03.540 murder rates go up in our

01:11:04.580 major cities massively over

01:11:05.780 the past couple of years

01:11:06.680 and there's no question the

01:11:07.960 pandemic played some role

01:11:09.120 in that for sure but the

01:11:10.520 soft on crime policies played

01:11:11.780 a massive role as well and

01:11:13.200 certainly the defund the

01:11:14.060 police and the the summary

01:11:17.900 attacks on police as

01:11:20.480 racist in the wake of

01:11:21.780 George Floyd did not help

01:11:23.220 either I mean there have

01:11:23.760 been whole studies on the

01:11:24.520 Ferguson effect so-called

01:11:25.580 Ferguson effect cops do

01:11:26.720 pull back when they've they

01:11:28.360 don't get backing when they

01:11:29.180 get demonized you know

01:11:30.140 they're like what am I

01:11:30.640 doing this for I'm not

01:11:31.320 making three hundred

01:11:31.960 thousand dollars a year

01:11:32.700 so we've seen all that but

01:11:35.140 what we're seeing right now

01:11:36.240 so a weird phenomenon in

01:11:37.800 the past month or so since

01:11:39.840 Buffalo since Uvalde since

01:11:42.180 we've seen you know more

01:11:44.520 and more coverage of

01:11:45.740 shootings pop up those were

01:11:47.880 mass shootings there's no

01:11:48.760 question about that but now

01:11:50.900 you start to hear CNN you

01:11:53.160 listen you read the New York

01:11:53.980 Times you listen to the

01:11:54.940 Biden White House some

01:11:56.180 Democrat politicians they

01:11:57.220 describe everything as a

01:11:58.840 mass shooting like four

01:11:59.800 people shot at the at the

01:12:01.480 grocery store or wherever

01:12:02.280 it's a mass shooting I mean

01:12:04.040 I guess technically it's I'm

01:12:06.160 not trying to argue over

01:12:07.260 value of how many how many

01:12:08.400 people need to die in a

01:12:09.380 shooting Megan or get hit by

01:12:10.680 bullet for you to consider

01:12:11.640 it a mass shooting is it

01:12:12.620 for is it so let me let me

01:12:14.020 finish my point let me

01:12:15.000 finish my point Jason as I

01:12:17.360 was saying before you

01:12:18.160 interrupted me I'm not

01:12:19.140 trying to dispute what the

01:12:21.100 use of the word mass I'm

01:12:22.180 what I'm trying to dispute is

01:12:24.140 the attempt to now say we've

01:12:26.020 got to get guns because of

01:12:27.060 all the mass shootings the

01:12:28.480 mass shootings are what

01:12:30.300 justify our newfound push

01:12:32.060 on quote gun control and what

01:12:34.200 it is to me is a dodge on the

01:12:36.700 rising crime rates which have

01:12:37.980 been a drag on the Democratic

01:12:38.900 ticket and are going to take

01:12:40.480 them down come the midterm

01:12:41.440 elections in October it's

01:12:42.920 gaslighting it's gaslighting

01:12:44.560 there's not some new rash of

01:12:46.200 mass shootings thanks to guns

01:12:48.260 there's crime there's increasing

01:12:50.380 crime in city after city which

01:12:52.060 this DOJ's own FBI has

01:12:54.660 documented and no attempt to

01:12:56.940 blame it simply on this

01:12:58.340 phenomenon of bad mental

01:13:00.260 health coupled with easy

01:13:01.520 access to guns is going to

01:13:02.800 excuse the gas guns of the

01:13:04.640 world the Chesa Boudins of the

01:13:06.340 world and these soft on crime

01:13:08.560 policies including zero bail

01:13:09.840 that's my point so how many

01:13:13.320 people do need to die in a

01:13:14.320 mass shooting for it to be

01:13:15.240 why don't you answer my

01:13:16.240 question since you're here as

01:13:17.380 the guest what was the

01:13:18.020 question was there a

01:13:18.760 question yeah I thought we're

01:13:20.760 here to have a dialogue I

01:13:22.020 thought yeah I'm shooting the

01:13:23.320 point at you and I'm asking

01:13:24.480 for your reaction okay I think

01:13:28.280 you're conflating a lot of

01:13:29.400 different issues in a very

01:13:30.460 partisan way to get ratings

01:13:32.080 that's bullshit don't question

01:13:34.580 my motives that this is where

01:13:35.960 you turn out I think that's

01:13:37.740 what I said that's what I

01:13:38.780 think I think you're

01:13:39.520 conflating a lot of issues

01:13:40.400 here I think we need to have

01:13:41.400 a realistic discussion about

01:13:43.120 gun control in this country

01:13:44.180 no no let me just stop

01:13:45.440 partisan let's have the

01:13:46.420 actual thing what you said

01:13:47.560 that there's I'm giving you

01:13:48.440 my honest analysis and for

01:13:49.640 you to say that I am

01:13:50.660 misleading the audience for

01:13:51.940 ratings is a prick thing to

01:13:53.280 say you don't know me all

01:13:54.860 right I've made my name and

01:13:56.200 I've made my business based on

01:13:57.420 honest journalism I realize

01:13:59.180 you may be number 26

01:14:00.160 worldwide but you've never

01:14:01.380 done real journalism at the

01:14:02.960 level I have in your life so

01:14:04.560 I don't need a lecture from

01:14:05.440 you about ratings I am here

01:14:07.040 to deliver honest information

01:14:08.220 to my audience that's what

01:14:09.300 I'm doing you can disagree

01:14:10.460 with my point without getting

01:14:12.020 personal how many people have

01:14:14.260 to die in a mass shooting as

01:14:15.520 a journalist we're both

01:14:16.380 journalists how many people

01:14:17.620 have to die in a mass shooting

01:14:18.700 for it to be considered mass

01:14:20.260 for you let's have that

01:14:21.860 discussion I don't know

01:14:23.140 six seven eight where do you

01:14:24.580 put the line I don't know

01:14:26.020 but you know nothing about me

01:14:27.380 do you know my stance on guns

01:14:28.440 I don't that's why I'm asking

01:14:30.060 you the question yeah you

01:14:31.040 brought it up because you

01:14:32.240 came into this with an idea

01:14:34.160 that I might be opposed to

01:14:35.880 your positions on January

01:14:37.540 6th on guns and so on you

01:14:39.880 don't know anything about me

01:14:41.240 you don't know anything about

01:14:42.700 me let me give it to David

01:14:43.940 learn actually ask you

01:14:45.020 answering might actually let

01:14:46.260 me give it to David and

01:14:47.060 might actually engage on the

01:14:48.440 point I'm trying to raise do

01:14:50.120 you think there's any

01:14:50.800 validity to that that now

01:14:52.380 we're trying to deflect from

01:14:54.460 the problems of soft on crime

01:14:55.780 DAs and zero bail policies with

01:14:57.940 gun control mass shootings

01:14:59.900 that's the real issue yeah

01:15:01.900 absolutely I mean just let's

01:15:03.760 take the city of Chicago you

01:15:04.780 had over 200 homicides this

01:15:06.560 year mostly gun deaths since

01:15:09.520 the beginning of the year no

01:15:10.580 one was talking about that

01:15:11.620 before Uvalde now they're

01:15:12.860 trying to rebrand that as you

01:15:15.140 know a mass shooting problem

01:15:16.260 you know handguns already

01:15:17.620 illegal in Chicago that's not a

01:15:19.120 gun control problem that's a

01:15:20.400 gang problem it's a crime

01:15:21.860 problem crime has been out of

01:15:23.320 control and you've got a

01:15:24.300 decarceral DA named Kim

01:15:26.060 Foxer who's pushing the same

01:15:27.180 policies as Gasco in LA or

01:15:29.160 Boudin in San Francisco so

01:15:30.660 they're absolutely trying to

01:15:31.520 rebrand let's say heinous but

01:15:34.760 conventional murders violence

01:15:38.160 gang violence as some sort of

01:15:40.180 mass shooting to put it in a

01:15:41.680 different category they never

01:15:43.180 expressed a concern about these

01:15:45.740 crimes until Uvalde now Uvalde is

01:15:48.960 a separate thing we do have a

01:15:50.780 problem of these young disturbed

01:15:53.200 psychotic young men who go off

01:15:55.660 and do these mass shootings who

01:15:57.400 kill you know dozens of people

01:15:59.360 those are a problem but that and

01:16:01.860 and we should we can have a

01:16:02.800 conversation about how to

01:16:04.100 control that on our pod we

01:16:05.480 talked about red flag laws we

01:16:08.080 talked about background checks

01:16:09.500 I'm in favor of those things so I

01:16:11.340 think we should address this

01:16:12.820 problem of psychos getting guns

01:16:15.320 and committing these mass

01:16:16.300 shootings but what's happening in

01:16:18.080 our cities where gun handguns

01:16:20.200 are already illegal that is not a

01:16:21.740 mass shooting problem that is a

01:16:22.960 crime problem and progressives

01:16:25.060 didn't care until they figured out

01:16:27.080 a way to rebrand that as a gun

01:16:29.240 control problem yep that's exactly

01:16:31.500 it thank you for engaging uh stand

01:16:33.780 by I'm gonna squeeze in a break and

01:16:35.020 we'll be back with more with David

01:16:36.700 and Jason on Elon Musk and Twitter

01:16:39.240 and much much more right after this

01:16:41.160 all right so let's talk Elon Musk

01:16:46.240 because this week people started to

01:16:48.220 get nervous uh when Elon suggested

01:16:51.440 that he has the right to back out of

01:16:53.900 this deal and then people started to

01:16:56.260 ask well does that mean he wants to

01:16:57.600 back out of the deal and there was a

01:16:59.580 suggestion doesn't doesn't necessarily

01:17:00.880 mean he's doing that and then Tesla

01:17:02.540 might be facing some layoffs and then

01:17:05.780 it was released that Elon had said he

01:17:07.320 has a very bad feeling about the

01:17:08.620 economy and this leads a lot of folks

01:17:11.240 who want to see this sale go through

01:17:12.740 to be concerned that it won't and a lot

01:17:16.140 of folks who don't want to see it go

01:17:17.700 through feeling hopeful that it won't

01:17:19.840 Jason I understand that you actually

01:17:21.740 have helped raise funds for Elon's

01:17:24.880 Twitter buy so what can you tell us

01:17:27.700 uh so just a little fact check on that

01:17:30.800 I have a tiny allocation I was given

01:17:32.640 to invest in the company but I'm not

01:17:33.980 helping him raise funds nor does he

01:17:35.340 need any help uh you know he's he's

01:17:37.160 got his own money to buy it uh you

01:17:39.580 know I don't have any inside

01:17:40.880 information other than we know what

01:17:42.900 Elon says on um Twitter and he's been

01:17:45.980 pretty vocal about it we also had him at

01:17:47.540 the all-in summit where he said listen

01:17:49.600 if the bot problem is less than five

01:17:51.160 percent as Twitter has said in all

01:17:53.040 their SEC filings okay great uh if it's

01:17:55.420 more than that well you know it's kind

01:17:57.780 of like uh I think he used the analogy

01:17:59.120 of termites in your house and so you

01:18:01.240 know in my experience you can take

01:18:02.260 Elon at his word you know if the if the

01:18:04.700 termite problem is five five percent

01:18:06.440 let's say in the house okay great we

01:18:07.960 agreed on a price but if the termite

01:18:09.640 problem is 50 percent uh or 25 percent

01:18:12.840 and I think anybody who uses Twitter at

01:18:15.060 this point or has done some research

01:18:16.400 into it would say it's probably more

01:18:18.220 than five percent then either you know

01:18:20.780 it's uh a breach of um you know uh the

01:18:25.440 deal or maybe the deal should be at a

01:18:27.420 different price and so you know I I think

01:18:30.280 there's a chance the deal happens you

01:18:31.880 know if I had to handicap it like there's

01:18:33.620 a chance the deal happens uh there's a

01:18:35.080 chance the deal happens at a lower price

01:18:36.760 um or there's a chance um that there's

01:18:39.820 some sort of legal action and so it's

01:18:42.120 it's kind of up in the air right now um

01:18:44.540 I think Twitter is in a really bad place

01:18:47.180 because maybe they could have been

01:18:50.160 misleading their shareholders all this

01:18:52.040 time and so um you know if they can't

01:18:55.720 give him the information because it seems

01:18:57.840 like he's trying to get some information

01:18:59.360 and when you do these deals you have

01:19:00.320 information rights so in that latest SEC

01:19:02.560 filing uh he asked for more information

01:19:04.940 and they're not giving it to him so that

01:19:06.620 certainly does not look good for Twitter

01:19:08.720 uh but again I don't have any inside

01:19:10.740 information and I just had a small

01:19:12.660 allocation to invest in it so I don't

01:19:15.180 have knowing that information I'm just

01:19:16.820 giving the handicapping of what I read

01:19:18.420 publicly no I got it and can you if can

01:19:20.940 you handicap it can you put an odd odds

01:19:22.620 on it you know odds that this thing

01:19:23.860 will go through I think it's uh it it's

01:19:27.520 starting to feel like the deal is not

01:19:29.540 going to happen to me if I had to take a

01:19:31.060 guess yeah that's not what we want to

01:19:33.540 hear um it's just we need one of these

01:19:36.400 companies to be run by somebody reasonable

01:19:39.280 he would be a great owner for it because

01:19:42.100 he he um really is great at executing he

01:19:44.980 would solve the bot problem um I think

01:19:47.360 his you know freedom of speech positions

01:19:49.520 are you know classic American you know

01:19:52.360 we have the law and um you know everybody

01:19:55.700 deserves to uh you know have their opinion

01:19:58.820 even if you don't like it it's hard to uh

01:20:01.440 hear certain things uh you and I just had

01:20:03.460 a little flare up ourselves sometimes it's

01:20:05.240 hard but we we have to learn to disagree

01:20:07.040 with each other right and uh do so in a

01:20:10.380 productive way hopefully but it's it's

01:20:13.520 hard to be for uh freedom of speech when

01:20:16.120 some things are uncomfortable now there

01:20:18.020 there is in a private company obviously a

01:20:20.120 zone of you get to decide what people do

01:20:22.440 in a private company you get to decide

01:20:23.780 what happens on your podcast I get to

01:20:25.280 decide what happens on mine so there'll be

01:20:27.480 some things that'll be judgment calls like

01:20:29.580 for example sharing uh information on

01:20:31.980 people's location gawker famously would

01:20:34.020 stalk celebrities in New York and tell you

01:20:36.560 the location of people it's kind of

01:20:37.640 dangerous but perhaps not illegal right

01:20:39.720 and so um you know the law has to catch up

01:20:43.400 and there's this other phenomenon with

01:20:45.820 these new systems where things can trend

01:20:47.740 and so the fact that you know some piece

01:20:50.640 of speech that might be legal but also you

01:20:54.560 know could be deadly or could be dangerous

01:20:56.540 uh can trend and could become the number one

01:20:59.540 story and could be exposed to millions of

01:21:01.440 people like somebody's home address or

01:21:03.060 or somebody's you know a phone number

01:21:06.320 you know and there's obviously varying

01:21:07.720 degrees of of the fallout from these

01:21:09.700 things you know that that does make this

01:21:11.980 unique uh and so it's not just standing on

01:21:14.520 a soapbox in the middle of Times Square you

01:21:16.460 know you could all of a sudden have a

01:21:18.520 picture uh you know shared with millions

01:21:21.220 of people as we've seen uh tragically you

01:21:23.360 know when people have their phones hacked or

01:21:24.820 whatever so it's very complex um he's the

01:21:27.700 great entrepreneur of our time and so it'd

01:21:30.160 be great to see him take this on um that

01:21:32.500 being said you know it's um uh the deal

01:21:36.780 looks like it's very challenged right now

01:21:39.080 and so it does it's gonna life's a

01:21:40.980 negotiation so we'll see i think it's

01:21:43.020 right because i mean i don't know

01:21:45.600 initially the twitter board seemed david

01:21:48.140 to be like no we don't get out we don't

01:21:50.520 want elon musk coming in here get out

01:21:52.280 and then the price was so good they i don't

01:21:55.500 know if they were forced to accept or they

01:21:57.140 just did accept but in any event they got a

01:21:59.000 good deal on paper and now i don't know how

01:22:02.340 they'd feel you know do you think they want

01:22:04.100 it to fall apart and secondly so two-part

01:22:06.680 question do you think they want it to fall

01:22:07.960 apart on the twitter end and secondly i read

01:22:11.840 that elon waived his right to due diligence

01:22:13.920 and if that's true does he really get to unwind

01:22:17.120 the deal if the bot numbers are understated

01:22:20.040 okay so on on the first question what is the

01:22:23.700 twitter management want and initially they

01:22:27.320 fought elon really hard on this and it was

01:22:29.960 pretty clear they didn't want to work for

01:22:31.560 him it was also pretty clear that elon was

01:22:33.780 going to replace a lot of them so there's a

01:22:36.260 fair amount of antipathy between twitter's

01:22:38.600 current management and elon and i i suspect that

01:22:41.940 management if the deal doesn't happen would

01:22:44.580 probably breathe a sigh of relief i don't

01:22:46.140 think shareholders what i think shareholders

01:22:47.780 want the deal to go through including um the

01:22:51.060 shareholders on the board who have major

01:22:52.760 positions but i suspect that management

01:22:55.540 probably would rather just remain independent

01:22:58.180 and not have to report to elon and they can

01:23:00.040 continue the content moderation policies they

01:23:02.580 want and they've even during this period have

01:23:04.920 basically there's been a lot of leaked content

01:23:07.040 that basically shows that they're kind of

01:23:08.320 doubling down on their on their censorship so i

01:23:12.180 think that's what's going on there uh in

01:23:14.320 terms of the diligence and what elon is

01:23:17.300 required to do i think elon's position on this

01:23:20.580 based on what he said publicly is look i relied

01:23:23.720 on their public filings and public statements so

01:23:27.220 even if he waived his right to conduct sort of

01:23:30.440 independent due diligence he relied on what

01:23:32.960 they've said publicly and what they've said

01:23:34.800 publicly for many years is that the bot problem is

01:23:37.700 five percent or less and he's saying listen when i

01:23:40.800 sample my own account and i look at my followers or i

01:23:44.200 look at my own tweets and the likes and reactions they

01:23:46.960 get the bots seem to be a lot more than five percent

01:23:49.960 so i need you twitter's management to answer my reasonable

01:23:53.680 questions about this and twitter has refused to so now if

01:23:57.340 the deal falls apart over this then what happens is

01:24:00.760 twitter's gonna have to make a decision do we sue elon musk for

01:24:04.400 the billion dollar kill fee that he would otherwise be

01:24:07.080 obligated to pay and if they do twitter uh elon's defense against

01:24:11.560 that is going to be but you didn't give me all the information you didn't answer

01:24:14.160 my questions and then they're going to have to go

01:24:16.060 to trial and i think the issue will very quickly

01:24:19.260 uh become uh what did twitter's management know about the bot problem

01:24:24.380 and when did they know it and why didn't they

01:24:26.240 basically answer elon's questions and what will the discovery show

01:24:30.340 if the discovery in that lawsuit shows

01:24:33.340 a chain of correspondence between twitter execs saying

01:24:36.380 hey we have a big bot problem here

01:24:38.260 uh that would look very very bad for them and so i think if this deal doesn't

01:24:43.220 happen i think there could be a lawsuit and

01:24:45.460 that lawsuit could be very embarrassing for twitter executives i mean could there

01:24:48.300 be a securities fraud lawsuit against him by the government but against not him

01:24:51.500 against twitter i mean if they're misstating

01:24:53.780 this problem in their sec filings they could have bigger problems than a lawsuit

01:24:57.800 against elon right and that and that would all come down to the

01:25:01.000 discovery you know what did twitter executives know when do they know it

01:25:04.180 and what does the discovery show i mean are there emails between twitter executives

01:25:08.200 saying that hey we have a bot problem uh well don't look into that don't fight

01:25:12.880 that too hard because it would hurt our revenue

01:25:14.680 elon's contention is look the reason why this is important is

01:25:18.200 70 percent of twitter's revenue is brand advertising

01:25:22.060 and the the ad rates depend on how many eyeballs are looking at that advertising

01:25:27.140 and if i don't know 25 percent of the eyeballs are fake because they're

01:25:31.640 actually bought accounts then a lot of twitter's ad revenue could go away

01:25:35.460 so you know is there correspondence is there discovery within twitter

01:25:41.480 showing that people were aware of this problem and didn't want to look

01:25:43.980 too closely into it because it could have an adverse impact on revenue

01:25:47.300 by the way i'm not saying that's the case but that's the kind of liability

01:25:50.420 that i think twitter would face and it will be really interesting to see if the

01:25:55.720 deal falls apart does twitter sue elon and subject itself to that kind of

01:26:02.300 exposure or do they just let it kind of quietly go away go away and and i think

01:26:07.620 the answer to that question will tell you how much exposure twitter executives feel

01:26:11.660 like they have on that question do you do you also think are you also as doubtful

01:26:16.260 as jason that it will go through at this point

01:26:18.060 well it seems like uh they're at this uh impasse where elon is saying i need this

01:26:25.820 information i can't proceed without it and twitter is basically saying they won't give

01:26:28.680 it to him so unless this impasse gets resolved i think the deal probably does fall apart

01:26:33.100 um although what like you like jason i'd like to see uh elon buy the company

01:26:38.780 yeah i think david nailed it megan when you when you look at the discovery process

01:26:43.940 they've been talking about the bot problem for a decade so there'll be every level of

01:26:48.940 executive talking about this and certainly um you know the number five percent is like

01:26:54.540 a very specific round number and you know less than five percent doesn't seem very credible

01:26:59.240 uh and you know the exposure to twitter of taking this to the mat um would be so great

01:27:06.440 to have misstated that for so many quarters that the shareholder lawsuits and the chaos from

01:27:12.740 that executives liability if they were lying or if they were misrepresenting in any way

01:27:18.600 i mean it would just cause utter chaos i mean and we're talking for years of lawsuits that

01:27:23.960 would take i don't know david you're the attorney here but i mean the amount of time it would

01:27:27.960 take for this to all hash out would be measured in years and in the meantime that company is already

01:27:33.880 mismanaged and not running properly and so this kind of distraction for management uh would i think

01:27:40.360 lead them to say hey listen you can be a shareholder in the company maybe we do a modest breakup fee

01:27:46.020 like you know 100 million dollars or something and let's all move on as friends and we love having

01:27:50.640 you on the platform and it didn't work out but that's okay we we believe there's a bright future

01:27:54.440 for twitter uh or you know hey here's another price 34.20 or something uh you know right or i mean

01:28:01.320 or twitter's board or twitter could renegotiate or they could be willing to renegotiate or elon could

01:28:05.960 renegotiate so neither side is obligated to renegotiate but but that would be a pretty good

01:28:11.240 outcome i mean obviously the the stock market and really the the market for growth stocks has gone

01:28:17.480 down precipitously since they worked out this deal i think uh twitter's own share price is down

01:28:22.380 something like 30 if i were on the board knowing everything i know about this management team and

01:28:28.360 how distracted they are and how many issues there are at the company wouldn't you rather want to take

01:28:33.220 a lower price from elon remember his premium is relative to twitter share price and the stock

01:28:39.560 market in general if the overall stock market has declined because of higher interest rates and

01:28:44.620 inflation is it really that bad an outcome to renegotiate the price down to reflect where the

01:28:50.240 market is today yeah um if i were on the board i'd be seriously thinking about that option yeah why

01:28:55.080 would they give him the information david that to me is a very strange moment in time he's asking for

01:29:01.700 information they won't give it that to me seems bizarre if they really do want to you know finish

01:29:06.420 the deal wouldn't they want the information well they want to give him the information i suspect they

01:29:10.560 don't want to open the door where if they basically give him the information he's looking for first of

01:29:15.200 all the answers may not be very good uh or the answers may be that they either might be the wrong

01:29:21.180 answers or they might not be very detailed elon's asking for details about their methodology how did

01:29:26.560 you come up with the five percent maybe they don't have a good answer to that maybe they don't want

01:29:31.560 to be subjected to scrutiny on that point yeah uh but i suspect that so that's part of it and then i

01:29:36.560 think also if they maybe they're thinking that hey if we start answering his questions here we're kind

01:29:41.860 of um waving our argument that uh that you've given up your due diligence rights well and and what to

01:29:48.960 what extent i mean what's your thought on the argument that this is just pretextual that elon saw what you

01:29:55.280 saw the stock market fell tesla i never know how to characterize what's happening with the tesla

01:30:00.400 stock because you see like it fell 10 and then the next day it's like no that was bullshit it didn't

01:30:04.280 wait what do you mean i don't get it either fell or it didn't fall anyway but they say tesla may may

01:30:09.380 or may not have been struggling and uh he announced this week that there could be there were going to

01:30:13.500 be i think uh potentially as much as 10 of the staff uh being cut and then a hiring freeze as well

01:30:20.920 but then he kind of backtracked on it so i mean like i truly i have no idea uh what the status is

01:30:26.000 of tesla but the argument is that this is all pretextual because he's losing money and he can't

01:30:31.080 he can't lose money at tesla and lose money at twitter and he's looking for an excuse to get out

01:30:35.520 of the deal well as of this moment tesla's market cap is 743 billion so it's still a very highly valued

01:30:43.660 company and elon is still if not the richest one of the top few richest people in the world so he

01:30:49.800 still has the means to do this he has backers it's not only his money so i think elon has the

01:30:55.920 means to do this i don't think he has to walk away it's not like he's in distress or anything based on

01:31:00.240 what's happening in the market so okay um you know if twitter wants to maintain or the the idea that

01:31:07.680 uh this is a pretext they're gonna have to sue elon they're gonna have to sue him to go get that

01:31:13.380 billion dollar kill fee and we know what elon's response is going to be he's going to have a counter

01:31:17.500 complaint and it's going to start this discovery process and my guess is that twitter doesn't want

01:31:23.240 to go there if this deal falls apart my guess is they just walk away in discovery you got to lift

01:31:28.840 the dress up there's no way around it as uncomfortable as it may be you got to show the

01:31:32.800 details and that's where it gets very ugly can i ask you before we go to on a more expansive question

01:31:38.200 about big tech because there have been layoffs there there's a headline today about i think it's

01:31:43.860 microsoft slowing the growth of a cyber security venture projected growth was 4 000 jobs now it's

01:31:48.580 just 200 jobs uh being added lift says giving this lower than expected recovery uh and so on we're

01:31:56.660 going to significantly slow slow hiring tesla again i mentioned what he said coinbase hiring pause now of

01:32:03.060 course you know crypto has been hit hard but they're on a hiring pause for new and backfill roles for the

01:32:08.180 foreseeable future and rescinding a number of accepted offers so are we looking at a larger big tech

01:32:13.640 slowdown you know mass layoffs recessionary type attitude right now oh oh yes i mean that's already

01:32:22.120 happening um i think we uh the tech stocks have been in correction for the last six months and it

01:32:28.440 accelerated in april and may and if you megan if you just look at the indices the big indices like the

01:32:33.780 dow jones like the sb 500 even the nasdaq you don't realize how uh hard bro stocks have been hit so

01:32:40.820 the indices are off somewhere between 15 and 25 that's because they're so weighted towards these

01:32:45.600 large cap companies but if you look at the new ipos the spacks the new listings the software companies

01:32:52.160 sort of the high flyers from last year they are off 60 70 80 even 90 and that has now trickled down all

01:32:59.820 the way to early stage financing in silicon valley the big crossover investors like tiger and kotu and d1

01:33:06.580 they are out of the market they've pulled back funding tremendously and there is a recession

01:33:11.760 happening in silicon valley already companies are freezing their hiring plans they're conducting

01:33:16.540 layoffs um they there is a real uh downturn already in silicon valley and i think it's sort of the canary

01:33:23.600 in the coal mine for the uh economy as a whole uh the economy right now is on very shaky ground

01:33:28.840 yep it's not going to give you a last word jason well as you say the good news is uh you know the

01:33:34.760 prices of the companies was unsustainable and uh you know people were hiring for scenarios a year or two

01:33:42.380 out salaries were a little bit out of control you'd have 10 offers for every executive in silicon valley

01:33:48.100 and talent was being diluted across many different companies and so now uh when you see all the big

01:33:54.680 companies you know go on a hiring freeze maybe some of the smaller companies make deeper cuts 10 or less

01:34:00.080 pretty much insignificant that's like a reorg but when you see the 25 cuts that means the company

01:34:05.240 really has some fundamental problems and challenges they have to deal with and so people taking this

01:34:09.500 hard medicine and then correcting their balance sheets uh in big companies and people doing it

01:34:14.060 personally uh means people will start to get back to work and we've had very low participation uh you

01:34:20.200 know in terms of the economy and people going back to work and even going back to offices so

01:34:24.800 i think this is uh actually a healthy part of the process and i think the country will be stronger

01:34:29.180 for it i'll predict the three or four quarter recession and then a very slow recovery into you

01:34:35.020 know 2023 um but i don't think this is going to be cataclysmic i think it's going to be very similar

01:34:39.560 to what happened in 2008 well i hope it's not cataclysmic it's like you think about all the people

01:34:44.020 who are already dealing with the gas prices and the grocery prices and you know the the fears about the

01:34:48.820 housing market next and now it's like layoffs and a recession it's just it's just terrible you can feel

01:34:53.000 the stress from here you guys thank you so much for the thought leadership and for coming on the

01:34:57.020 show and for sparring and for all of it and uh look forward to hearing your reaction no matter what

01:35:02.080 happens today in san francisco thanks for coming on thanks for having me and we'll have an update

01:35:07.800 for you tomorrow on what happens in those uh elections as well would love to know your thoughts

01:35:12.200 on the show had some ups in dallas didn't it write me write me at uh if you go on apple podcasts

01:35:20.000 right now we got to come up with a better way for me to hear from you guys but right now we're

01:35:24.200 taking comments if you go to apple podcasts where i hope you've already downloaded the show and

01:35:28.560 subscribe to the show um you can leave a note and i do read them all i'm still reading them daily

01:35:34.320 and uh let me know let me know what what your thoughts were would love to hear from you and don't

01:35:38.720 forget to tune into the show tomorrow because our friends from the ruthless podcast will be here

01:35:43.840 such great guys always enjoy talking to them um looking forward to it in the meantime you can also

01:35:48.960 go subscribe at youtube.com slash megan kelly if you check out that video i was talking to you about

01:35:53.120 about what happened to that woman in la oh my god it really puts a human face or at least picture

01:36:01.040 to what these soft on crime da's reap you know what their policies reap thank you for coming along uh with

01:36:09.880 us as we delve into these issues and a full update for you on california tomorrow

01:36:16.680 thanks for listening to the megan kelly show no bs no agenda and no fear

The Megyn Kelly Show - June 07, 2022

Crime and Chesa Boudin's Recall, and Elon Musk's Twitter Plan, with Jason Calacanis and David Sacks ｜ Ep. 337

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