The Megyn Kelly Show - Deep Dive： The Science of Protecting Women's Sports From Men, and the Olympics Boxing Controversy ｜ Ep. 862

00:00:00.460 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:11.700 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and this deep dive special episode.

00:00:17.260 Today, we are taking a hard look into the controversy surrounding the two male Olympic

00:00:22.240 boxers who won gold medals competing against women. My guest today is Ross Tucker. He's an

00:00:28.620 expert in sports science. He's also a consultant to World Rugby, the official governing body of

00:00:33.720 rugby, and has advised the association on sex eligibility in that sport. Tucker has taken an

00:00:40.280 in-depth look at the Olympic boxing scandal and has been explaining the science behind it on his

00:00:46.240 hit podcast, The Science of Sport, which I have to say I've really been enjoying. In these crazy times,

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00:01:44.960 may apply. Ross, welcome to the show. Hi, Megan. Thank you. So this thing completely exploded to

00:01:52.600 the point where a lot of people are out there saying, I don't know what to believe. You know,

00:01:57.180 the IOC just keeps telling me that they're female and that somehow it's misogynistic to say they're

00:02:02.800 not female. And yet I hear reports about the International Boxing Association. And so the

00:02:07.920 average citizen may be walking around out there saying, I guess we'll just never know. I guess

00:02:11.800 they're women. To which you respond what? That's, I suppose what one would have to say is that we

00:02:19.460 don't 100% know because none of the parties who can confirm it with beyond any reasonable doubt at

00:02:25.820 all are saying exactly what they know. And so to some degree, you choose whether you believe the

00:02:31.540 International Boxing Association and the series of events going back to 2022, 2023, when these two

00:02:38.140 boxers were disqualified from world championships fights for failing what they called their eligibility

00:02:43.840 tests. And then you arrive in Paris where the scandal, as you mentioned, exploded, or you choose

00:02:49.500 to dismiss what International Boxing Association is saying. And you go instead with what the IOC are

00:02:55.680 saying and refusing to say and what the boxers themselves are refusing to disclose. And then you

00:03:00.400 can decide. So in some senses, it's probably a little bit of a, one of those inkblot tests that

00:03:05.260 reveals to you what you felt before the time. But from my perspective, the sequence of events and

00:03:10.980 what we know seems to indicate that these boxes were tested. They had XY chromosomes, and perhaps

00:03:17.900 we'll get into exactly what that means. They were deemed ineligible by the International Boxing

00:03:23.360 Association because the chromosomes they were fined with are typical of males, and therefore they were

00:03:29.120 disqualified from competition. We then know that neither of the boxes appealed that decision,

00:03:33.840 which I think is quite telling because it would be quite an easy case to win if you were actually

00:03:39.160 telling the truth with regards to not being male. And then we also know that people who are close to

00:03:45.780 those boxers, one of the sports scientists who was involved in conditioning the Algerian boxer,

00:03:51.140 has revealed that they did tests and confirmed once again the chromosomal and the testosterone levels

00:03:56.680 were those of males. So I think collectively, there's enough there to say with a very high degree of

00:04:01.740 confidence that they are in fact male biologically, but they've been cleared to compete as women

00:04:08.220 because of what basically is a governance dispute around the sport of boxing and the Olympic Games.

00:04:14.120 Right, because other sports that competed at the Olympics did not allow biological males

00:04:20.860 to compete against women because the Olympics said it would be up to the individual sports. 1.00

00:04:25.900 But through this weird series of events, the IOC took over women's boxing directly and eliminated 1.00

00:04:33.160 the head governing body. And they say it's because they are corrupt and some connection to Russia.

00:04:40.020 Yeah, so this is where the misinformation accelerates, right? So to understand this,

00:04:45.740 you have to go back a few years. The sporting landscape at the moment is more fragmented with regards

00:04:50.780 to eligibility than it ever has been. Because up until about 2019, all sports were compliant with

00:04:57.060 what was the IOC policy at that time. And what that policy said is that provided you lowered your

00:05:02.480 testosterone levels and you declared your gender identity to be that of a woman, you were allowed

00:05:07.940 to participate in women's sport. And I think starting in about 2019-20, rugby was one of the sports,

00:05:14.260 athletics, cycling, swimming, there's this realization that that policy didn't work.

00:05:18.780 It simply does not achieve fairness and safety for females by allowing biological males into women's 1.00

00:05:27.380 sporting spaces. And so one by one, different sports have changed their policy. But the IOC hasn't

00:05:33.800 fulfilled its role as a leadership organization and given the world clear direction. And so instead,

00:05:40.100 it's almost told the member unions, the sports, that you're on your own now, you need to go and figure

00:05:45.340 out how you're going to deal with this problem, which the International Boxing Association duly did.

00:05:51.220 But now we get to the Olympic Games, and it's not unique to Paris, because the same thing happened

00:05:55.820 in Tokyo. There have been so many scandals over the years in Olympic boxing with respects to judging

00:06:01.440 of fights and corruption and judges taking payments and bribes and so forth, that the International

00:06:08.200 Olympic Committee had stepped in and said, we're going to take over boxing because of the judging issue.

00:06:13.200 But it's now spilled over. And the implication of that is that the IOC also run eligibility. So the IBA,

00:06:21.140 which runs the World Championships, had one policy and disqualified these two fighters. And the IOC has a

00:06:27.240 different policy, and therefore they're allowed to fight. And that's why it's a mess, because you

00:06:31.660 effectively have a fragmented, confusing landscape in which different bodies assess eligibility in

00:06:38.220 different ways.

00:06:38.900 Yeah, right. Exactly. And that's why you have male bodies fighting in the boxing, but not barred in 1.00

00:06:45.180 the swimming and other sports, because the IOC is directly overseeing boxing and refused to acknowledge

00:06:51.220 these tests that were done at the World's Competition in Boxing the year before. And a word on those tests.

00:06:58.400 So some are suggesting you can't trust those tests, again, because there's something having to do with

00:07:04.720 that maybe a Russian is associated with IBA and there was a Russian boxer. I don't, and we've heard

00:07:10.740 all sorts of rumors, but I will tell you, I have no doubt in my mind that they did text test XY when

00:07:18.460 they were tested, both of these boxers at the World's. And one of the things that led me to reach

00:07:23.240 that conclusion was not only that doctor who was on the board of the IBA saying it on camera this past

00:07:28.860 weekend, but there's a sports journalist who you may know, Alan Abramson, who did 17 years with the LA Times,

00:07:36.800 who was with NBC Sports, respected journalist. He's now got his own independent media company, and I'll make

00:07:43.520 sure that I mention what it is so that people know. Let's see. Hold on. He's actually a professor at USC, and

00:07:49.560 he's the founder of Three Wire Sports, which he's run since 2010. He's the premier Olympics focused media

00:07:55.400 outlet. And this guy was the only journalist to lay eyes on the tests that the boxers took. We 0.94

00:08:06.300 interviewed him. This is brand new. The first time we're airing it. And here is what he said.

00:08:11.100 The New Delhi test is three pages long. And the first part of it, like any test you would have

00:08:18.260 if you went to the doctor, says who you are, what time the blood sample was collected, so on and so

00:08:25.880 forth. I believe if memory serves, the blood samples were collected literally within a minute of each

00:08:31.280 other. And then it says result. It says abnormal. And then it says evidence of male karyotype.

00:08:44.520 So a karyotype refers to your chromosomal evidence. And here it says male, with a capital M, male.

00:08:54.540 So he saw it with his own eyes, Ross. He has absolutely no reason to lie. He's a respected

00:09:00.620 journalist. And in my mind, there's absolutely no question that they did take this test, which

00:09:05.320 the two boxers were later forced to sign, not forced, but asked to sign acknowledgement of.

00:09:12.280 And he saw it too. If they're X, Y.

00:09:16.860 Yeah. And that's one of the telling points. If the only thing we had to base all our conversation

00:09:22.220 on was the word of one person at the IBA saying something, and then it becomes an argument of he

00:09:27.680 said versus she said, or he said, then it's a different matter. But I think that's a telling

00:09:32.780 statement from Abramson. I read the articles that he wrote from Paris. There was a little bit more

00:09:38.060 to it. You could track back the correspondence between the IBA and the IOC that dates back to

00:09:43.300 the first time these boxes were tested in 2022. There was a letter that was sent before the IBA was

00:09:49.560 moved aside for Paris in early June. And you could see that they were trying to communicate this to

00:09:55.040 the IOC. So you would have to go to some pretty great lengths to argue that they were creating

00:10:03.480 this all as a ruse or some sort of fallacy around these boxes as part of some Russian plot. When in

00:10:09.520 fact, the more simple conclusion, I think, is that they did in fact test. And we could discuss and

00:10:15.700 critique the way the IBA go about doing that test. How did they identify the boxes? Did they target

00:10:21.040 test on the basis of allegation? I think there are sports governance matters that need to be

00:10:26.020 addressed. But I would see that almost as a parallel discussion. I think that the point that matters

00:10:31.760 really for the sake of women's sport is, was the test result legitimate? Yes or no? And then what is

00:10:37.580 the sport going to do about that? Because once you've identified male competitors in a sport,

00:10:43.960 then the sport has to say, well, what do we do with that? Boxing chose one way,

00:10:47.180 the IOC has chosen another. The response by some has been, this is, this is somehow bigoted because

00:10:55.760 if these two boxers have DSDs, differences in sexual developments, we used to call it intersex. 0.51

00:11:03.380 One point we use the word hermaphrodite. It's different from trans where you're just a biological 1.00

00:11:08.140 man who thinks he's a woman and starts acting like a woman and starts having surgeries to try to make 0.86

00:11:13.260 himself resembles a woman more. This is different. But they say if they have these DSDs and they're

00:11:20.400 born with female genitalia, but inside they're male, inside they have testes. And you can explain 0.98

00:11:26.620 some of this because I've heard you explain it very well. Then they're women. Then there's, 0.99

00:11:30.980 what's the problem? Like if they're not faking, you know, thinking that they're women or having 1.00

00:11:36.820 been raised as girls, what's the problem? Well, the problem is that from the perspective of sport

00:11:45.500 is that during puberty, they are going to undergo all the same development that males do as a

00:11:51.760 consequence of having testes that produce testosterone that can be used by the body.

00:11:57.480 And it's, it's one of those things where sports doesn't ever really need to take on this issue of

00:12:02.880 defined sex and is sex binary. I think it can, and it should, it shouldn't shy away from that,

00:12:07.860 but it actually doesn't need to because for the purposes of a sports conversation, really,

00:12:12.420 all you have to understand is that we have men's sports and we have women's sports.

00:12:16.680 And the dividing line between them is that on the women's sports side, you want those humans who do not 1.00

00:12:23.680 benefit from testosterone role in the body to be able to compete against one another. And in order for

00:12:31.080 that to happen, the boundary between them has to be closed and it has to be defended. So that boundary

00:12:37.220 is basically has this individual gone through life with the ability to use and benefit in the context

00:12:44.860 of sport from testosterone's job. Now, everyone watching this will have heard of testosterone. It

00:12:50.360 is the male hormone. It's not the only one, but it's the main one. And at puberty, not uniquely,

00:12:56.340 but particularly at puberty, males are suddenly flooded with this male making hormone. It's called

00:13:02.480 an androgen. The word literally means andro male gen making, and we are flooded with it. And all the

00:13:08.940 changes you see in boys at puberty, the increased muscle mass, the growth in height, the change in

00:13:15.240 the shape of the skeleton, the strength, the power output that they can generate, those are all

00:13:19.880 attributable to the role of testosterone. And that's what female sport has to keep out. So in the case 1.00

00:13:26.660 of DSDs, absolutely, you can trace back where the difference happened and how the external genitalia

00:13:33.560 didn't develop in the typical male way. And as a consequence, that baby is born and the midwife or

00:13:39.960 whoever it is says, well, this is a girl. That's not a biologically accurate identification, because

00:13:45.740 later in life, that person will go through male puberty, because they are XY with testes and 0.99

00:13:52.500 testosterone. So biologically, they are the same. It's they're male, and they experience all the same

00:13:58.060 benefits from the perspective of sport that males do. So if you have XY, do you develop any female 0.89

00:14:06.180 internal organs? Do you develop breasts in puberty? Female internal organs? No, in most cases. Now,

00:14:14.380 there are some conditions where you can be XY, but then you don't have the gene that normally is found

00:14:21.800 on the Y chromosome and is, think of it almost as the master switch that drives male development.

00:14:27.280 If that gene is absent or malfunctioning, there's a condition called Swire syndrome, for instance,

00:14:32.880 where you then don't produce testes. And as a consequence, you don't have testosterone or another

00:14:37.940 hormone, which is called anti-malarian hormone. This is getting into the biological weeds in a way.

00:14:43.060 But I think from the perspective of this conversation, if you are XY, and you have the 0.97

00:14:49.640 signal that creates testes as opposed to ovaries, and therefore testosterone, then you also shut down

00:14:56.440 the development of the female reproductive system. And that includes internal and external. In the case

00:15:03.160 of DSDs, depending on which one it is, you don't develop the external genitalia. And it's interesting,

00:15:09.900 if you go back to the Castus Semenya case, world athletics argued that at the court of arbitration

00:15:15.300 for sport. And one of the sticking points was, by all means, you can have this argument that they've

00:15:20.680 got external female genitalia, but it's absolutely irrelevant to sport. What matters for the purposes of 1.00

00:15:26.460 sport is whether you can use testosterone for the performance advantages it gives you later in life.

00:15:31.620 Well, how do we know which one these two boxers have?

00:15:38.960 We don't. And that's because it's their right as it's their medical information. So they can choose

00:15:44.680 to disclose it or not. If you go back to even with Castus Semenya, and all the DSDs that track and field

00:15:51.060 have dealt with, they very rarely do. So I don't expect that we ever will. And that's one of the

00:15:55.460 realities of the situation. And it's why I think one needs to be a little bit cautious, because

00:15:59.540 there are some DSDs where you don't get full male development. And in some cases, you don't get

00:16:06.160 any, because you can have one of the conditions is called complete androgen insensitivity syndrome.

00:16:13.000 So you are completely insensitive to androgens like testosterone. So you can have male testes 0.52

00:16:19.800 with testosterone levels of a typical male, but you can't use it at all. And in the world athletics

00:16:26.120 case, for instance, they made a specific allowance that that condition is not part of what they

00:16:31.800 regulate. So they would allow someone with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome to participate

00:16:38.040 because there is no advantage, even though they are biologically male. And I think, as a broader

00:16:43.940 point, this is one of the reasons why a conversation and a focus on a specific individual or case makes

00:16:51.960 it more difficult, I think, to argue the principle around women's sports and how it should remain

00:16:57.160 closed to male advantage, because you can very quickly spiral into these very nuanced details and

00:17:03.360 find exceptions. And you start talking about edge cases and rare conditions that actually obscure the

00:17:09.980 reality, which is that the IOC, as it stands, believe that female is what's written in your passport.

00:17:16.360 And so the president of the IOC, Thomas Bach, can tell the world's media that he has no way of

00:17:21.980 identifying who's a man and who's a woman. And it's an unsolvable problem for them because they've

00:17:27.340 chosen to value identity above biology. And all the preoccupation with one individual here and

00:17:33.640 there probably allows them to do that. Yeah, that's literally what he said. I mean,

00:17:38.820 we've played the soundbites, but he said chromosomes don't determine sex. That's just not true anymore

00:17:43.640 that, you know, you can have X, Y and be female. You can have, I guess, XX and be male. And that

00:17:49.400 what's important here is that they listed themselves as female in their passports.

00:17:56.060 Exactly. And he knows that trans women can also be listed as female in their passport. He knows that

00:18:04.300 the condition that was documented to have occurred in the athletes in track and field is 5ARD,

00:18:11.760 where you can use testosterone in the completely normal, typical way. And so there's in full male

00:18:18.440 advantage. That was the conclusion from the court case around Castus Semenya. And he knows that,

00:18:24.240 but they've, and it comes back to the, what I mentioned to you earlier there, that in about 2020,

00:18:29.460 21, the sports landscape fragmented and the IOC went in a direction where it chose inclusion of

00:18:36.340 trans women and DSD athletes over fairness and safety for female athletes. And it was a,

00:18:42.020 it was a conscious choice. I mean, you could go back to the conversations that world rugby had.

00:18:47.500 You can talk about how athletics and swimming and cycling framed it. They all realized that you cannot

00:18:53.300 have all three. So if you think from the perspective of sport is inclusion into the category of your

00:18:59.960 choice. So in other words, I'm male, but I identify as a woman and I want to play women's football or

00:19:06.280 women's soccer for the American audience, uh, women's basketball safety for the participants and

00:19:13.160 fairness. And what world rugby recognized for instance, is that you couldn't balance those.

00:19:17.900 And so you had to instead prioritize them. And the priority was safety first, fairness, second,

00:19:24.180 and inclusion cannot be achieved. And so therefore trans women cannot play women's rugby.

00:19:29.740 And I think the same decision was reached by swimming was reached by athletics and it was

00:19:34.320 reached by cycling. So the president of the IOC knows that those are three of the big sports at

00:19:41.240 the Olympic games. And so they've, they've had this conversation. And when he sat and told everyone

00:19:46.700 that no one has offered a solution and that they are unable to do it, that's, it's simply dishonest.

00:19:52.520 Is it a blood test that they have the players take to figure out what the chromosomes are?

00:19:56.660 Yeah. You don't even necessarily need blood because you can just take a scraping from the

00:20:02.300 inside of the cheek and you can examine those cells because there's a specific structure called

00:20:08.060 the bar body, which only exists if you have two X chromosomes. So if you took a scrape from the inside

00:20:14.220 of my cheek, you wouldn't see it. Whereas the inside of yours, you would. And so if mine was absent,

00:20:19.380 I would call it test negative, whereas you'd test positive. And so that, that could be used as a

00:20:25.020 first screen, for instance, if they wish to go in that direction, that's what used to happen. Uh,

00:20:30.440 in the 1968 Olympics, I believe it was, was the first time that they used that test prior to that

00:20:36.480 sex verification or, or gender testing, if you wish used to involve having all the female participants

00:20:42.880 parade in front of a panel of judges nude. And you can imagine how that was perceived, right?

00:20:49.380 Exactly. So how do you factor in on the subject of whether the testosterone is getting used by the

00:20:56.340 person with DSD or it's not getting used because there's a blocker? Um, there's the old fashioned

00:21:02.820 process of eyes. And I, I mean, you look at these boxers in particular, the one from Algeria,

00:21:09.840 and this person looks like a man that they have the height advantage. They have the physicality of it.

00:21:14.860 There are no breasts. And then we have the testimonial of several women who have boxed

00:21:20.580 against Khalif saying it was unsafe. I did not want to box against him further. And I'm,

00:21:28.040 I feel lucky to be alive, said one, another one came out, the one who the Italian who said it was 1.00

00:21:33.140 just too strong. This is not nothing I was used to. Um, we've seen repeatedly women say there was 1.00

00:21:39.720 something different about him and our own eyes suggest there was something different about

00:21:44.340 Khalif. How does that factor in? Yeah, I would, I think from a policy governance perspective,

00:21:52.060 you would want to be careful to make that the basis for a decision, obviously, because

00:21:57.060 even though it's probably very accurate, it may be 90%, in which case 10% of the time it's not.

00:22:04.500 Right. And then you run the risk of accusing someone when they are actually not male. And so

00:22:10.120 that becomes a problem for the sport. And one of the, one of the issues I think that track and field

00:22:15.120 faced was the implementation of the policy around DSD athletes did over rely on the subject of

00:22:21.480 assessment. And I, I, by no means want to diminish that because I think in particular, and I've, I've

00:22:26.380 learned this in the last five or six years in this discussion is that women are quite good at making 1.00

00:22:30.840 that assessment because they almost have to a lot of the time and you have to respect that.

00:22:35.660 But I think there's a better way to do it where you, you don't ever need to even rely on subjectivity

00:22:40.720 because if you can do an initial screen that identifies an X, Y, or as I was saying, the, the,

00:22:47.020 there's now more, even, even more sophisticated genetic tests that can identify the specific gene,

00:22:53.960 that SRY, that sex determining region gene. And if you find that, then the person is male.

00:22:59.560 And then you can follow that screen up with a series of diagnostic tests that are completely

00:23:04.880 non-invasive and will give you an understanding of the diagnosis without ever needing to pass

00:23:10.640 judgment. Because you've probably seen the moment there's a subjective assessment, it opens up all

00:23:16.460 kinds of doors for a, you're going to do the nude parade and you're going to judge women based on 1.00

00:23:21.280 their genitalia, which no one is proposing. Or it opens up allegations that women who don't conform to 1.00

00:23:28.020 some Western gender stereotype are going to be judged and targeted.

00:23:31.680 Well, that's what the papers, that's what the papers are arguing right now, that that's what's

00:23:35.580 happening to these two boxers, that because they don't conform to a, you know, I don't know, 1950s

00:23:42.040 stereotype of appearance on women. That's why we're saying that they're male. And it's been very 0.97

00:23:50.300 frustrating for me because that's not it at all. We're saying they're male because they tested X,

00:23:55.280 why? And there are credible, many people who say they've seen the tests. And to your point,

00:24:00.940 they didn't appeal them. If I, if I were set, if I were told I can't compete in the gold medal round,

00:24:07.380 like happened to Khalif at the world, because I tested X, Y, I would have 10 different testing

00:24:15.280 companies test me again and say, please promise me you'll make the tests public because I know I'm

00:24:21.020 female. I know I'm XX and I certainly would see the appeal through. And if I happen to have a DSD

00:24:26.860 that prohibited me from getting the male advantage, like all that testosterone was blocked in me,

00:24:32.940 same, I'd say, let's do the tests. I'm telling you, I'm, I don't have any of those advantages

00:24:39.080 because I know what my puberty was like. I know what my development was like. The fact that these two

00:24:43.780 just gave it up as soon as the test came up, came up, says a lot.

00:24:49.740 I think so. And that first screen you mentioned that's, that's within hours. So this is not let's

00:24:56.480 test and wait a week or two. You'd know within hours, if not less that you were XX or XY. So if

00:25:01.860 that's the claim, then it's so easily provable. And so I think the absence of that proof and the

00:25:06.720 absence of those appeals is probably quite telling. I agree with you on that.

00:25:09.960 What's going to happen next? Because the, now the Olympics are coming to LA, uh, in 2028. Now we're

00:25:16.680 back on American territory. We are, uh, there are certainly California, but I know they don't

00:25:21.960 oversee it, uh, all of this, but what's going to happen with the IOC in this issue now that it's

00:25:25.880 become so prominent. And frankly, they're the ones who put these two boxers in this terrible

00:25:30.880 position. I've heard you say this too, but it's really the IOC's fault for putting these two boxers

00:25:35.960 in the ring. So are we going to expect much more of this in four years?

00:25:41.600 I'm afraid so. I wish I could say that this was a turning point. I think it's a low point

00:25:46.300 and I'd hope that it would also be a turning point, but when it happened in Paris, I remember

00:25:50.560 thinking, will they now at some point start to retreat from their, this is they being the IOC

00:25:56.080 from the framework that they'd created, which prioritized inclusion and held that there should

00:26:00.680 never be a presumption of advantage unless it was a non-science and nonsense document that they

00:26:06.540 produced. But what happened instead is that they seem to dig their heels in and double down on it.

00:26:11.640 So I've, I've very much lost confidence that the IOC are going to back down from the position that

00:26:16.440 they've created for themselves. So I could see one of two things happening. One is that the sports

00:26:23.140 themselves, because remember they've been given the mandate by the IOC to look after their own house.

00:26:28.480 And so they may look at this and say, we don't want this controversy and we're going to actually

00:26:33.620 put in place some kind of robust policies. And we're going to imitate, for instance, athletics

00:26:38.140 and cycling and swimming, which again, are the three biggest sports at the Olympic game. So there's a

00:26:43.100 fair degree of safety in numbers. They can almost hide behind the three of the four, maybe big Olympic

00:26:49.120 sports. So that's one option. The second one that may happen is that women boxers may consider legal 0.97

00:26:55.720 action because this situation that developed in Paris, whether it was in Paris or in the future

00:27:01.760 was reasonably foreseeable. There's no doubt in my mind about that, because when the sports bodies

00:27:07.880 were assessing this years ago, it was quite clear that there was a fairness issue, even if you lower

00:27:13.020 the testosterone, which is what the policy used to say. And so if you have a fairness issue in sports

00:27:18.340 like swimming and cycling, then the moment it's applied in a sport where there's combat and physical

00:27:23.640 contact like rugby, this is the calculus we made or boxing. Now you've got a safety issue.

00:27:29.940 And I think there's a case that could be made to say that we have now been exposed. We, the female

00:27:35.060 boxers have been exposed to a risk that we didn't consent to and which could have reasonably been

00:27:40.140 foreseen. And that's the kind of thing that may now happen. I don't know whether anyone will have

00:27:45.080 the appetite. I know how difficult it is for women to take those cases forward, but that's the sort of 1.00

00:27:50.820 thing that may, that may be necessary if this situation is going to turn.

00:27:56.000 Yeah, they need to. I mean, you've been talking about how this is not about testosterone. Even

00:28:00.280 lowering your testosterone is not going to eliminate your male advantage. If you are XY, if you're, if 0.64

00:28:06.640 you're male, it's just not going to, you've gone through male puberty and you'll have all those

00:28:10.500 advantages no matter what happens to your testosterone. I will say now, um, Khalif has filed a

00:28:15.680 lawsuit, not a lawsuit. He's got, they've gotten the French authorities to look into whether Elon Musk

00:28:22.000 and JK Rowling committed some anti bullying or harassment, like criminal offense by objecting

00:28:29.680 to their presence in the boxing, uh, the women's boxing. That's not going to go well for Khalif. 0.89

00:28:35.080 I realize this is like the French and their laws are different, but if their laws look anything like

00:28:39.340 ours, they're going to be allowed to actually demand the testing. They're going to be allowed to demand

00:28:44.700 to know what the truth is. And my prediction is as soon as they get that, the case will go away

00:28:49.740 because these two obviously don't want that testing to take place. And there's a reason for that.

00:28:53.780 Ross, thank you for being honest on this and being a voice of reason in the wilderness.

00:28:57.760 It's great to talk to you. Thanks, Megan. I appreciate the chance to talk to you. Thanks so much.

00:29:02.340 All the best. Again, that's Ross Tucker. He's co-host of the podcast,

00:29:05.440 the science of sport. And they had a lot of great shows during the Olympics, uh, analyzing all the sports.

00:29:10.900 So this was just one of the many, but it was someplace where I learned a ton and sent me down

00:29:16.020 a whole lane of learning on the internet, which is just fascinating. This is deeply unfair. That's

00:29:22.560 my takeaway on this deeply unfair. And this needs to be stopped before more women get hurt. Thanks 1.00

00:29:28.960 for listening. See you next time. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS,

00:29:35.980 no agenda and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - August 15, 2024

Deep Dive： The Science of Protecting Women's Sports From Men, and the Olympics Boxing Controversy ｜ Ep. 862

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