The Megyn Kelly Show - Dems' ＂Dark Brandon＂ Scare Tactics, And Reality of AI Facial Recognition Tech, with Jesse Kelly and Kashmir Hill ｜ Ep. 696

00:00:00.680 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:12.040 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Friday.

00:00:16.820 It's so great to make it Friday, isn't it? Especially I feel it for my kids.

00:00:20.760 They're just so happy. Here where we live, it's a shorter day on Fridays,

00:00:24.980 which makes it even better for them. And I can feel their relief. I feel secondhand relief.

00:00:29.740 Although I got to tell you, when I was off for two weeks, I was missing you guys. I was missing you.

00:00:34.360 I was missing my team and I was missing the news and I was missing you and doing the show.

00:00:38.240 So, you know, vacation's good in the right amount. Meantime, we begin the show with sanity prevailing

00:00:44.820 in New Hampshire. God bless the lawmakers in New Hampshire. This actually gave me hope for the

00:00:51.960 future of our country. Twelve Democratic lawmakers crossed the aisle to side with Republicans,

00:00:58.640 two of whom voted the wrong way. The Republicans were not unanimous. Shame on you two. Last night to

00:01:04.600 pass a bill banning so-called gender affirming surgeries for minors. That's not what they are.

00:01:11.760 They're not gender affirming. They cut off children's body parts, their genitals before they can even 1.00

00:01:18.460 legally smoke a cigarette because they suffer from some gender confusion. What sane society allows this? 1.00

00:01:27.260 Um, and yet they passed a ban on it in the North Carolina house. It still has to go to the Senate.

00:01:34.000 We believe they have the votes and then we'll see what Sununu does in New Hampshire. This is Chris

00:01:39.220 Christie's big state. This is where he's polling between 10 and 11%. He's against these bans.

00:01:44.860 Pay attention, New Hampshireites. Your favorite at 10% is against you on this issue. If New Hampshire

00:01:54.340 passes this ban, we'll be the 21st state in the union to do so. And these bans should be unanimous.

00:02:01.000 They should be in all 50 states. Unfortunately, they didn't go so far as to include the ban

00:02:06.680 on puberty blockers into cross-sex hormones, which sterilizes children. I mean, do they know that?

00:02:13.920 Are they paying attention? Because what, in what world is it okay to sterilize an 11-year-old?

00:02:19.380 Okay. Um, one step at a time. Uh, I have nothing but praise today for those Dems who crossed the

00:02:26.140 aisle to make this happen. Wait until you hear what happened to one progressive lawmaker 1.00

00:02:30.520 when he dared to stand firm against the mob. Plus, Vivek Ramaswamy once again puts on a masterclass

00:02:39.100 on how to deal with the media. Joining me now to discuss it all, Jesse Kelly, host of the Jesse

00:02:47.020 Kelly Show, and I'm right over on The First TV. Jesse, welcome back to the show. Great to have you.

00:02:52.760 It is great to be here, Megan, although I'm going to push back on you on something there.

00:02:56.680 You said it's great that the kids are almost out of school on Friday. I like when my kids are in

00:03:01.900 school, Megan. My house is so quiet. My wife and I were talking this morning and there was nobody

00:03:06.100 interrupting. There was no screaming. There was no messes anywhere. It was just like a real

00:03:10.440 conversation. I love when my kids are in school. You know, you have a good point. I was just talking

00:03:15.600 about this with friends in the summer, you know, when they're off full time. Yeah. Let's just say

00:03:20.540 it's like a hard to find private adult time. And when you have like, my youngest is 10 and you get this

00:03:26.020 on the door, like what's going on in there? What are you doing? So thankfully, I take your point.

00:03:37.920 Our kids have our kids have been scolded enough to know if the door is closed,

00:03:42.100 just walk away or else dad's going to get.

00:03:45.900 Walk away. OK, so maybe we might have another school day on Monday, by the way, because snow day,

00:03:52.140 because we're expecting snow here in the Northeast. Remember snow? Remember how we used to get snow?

00:03:58.180 I am going to join you in the Northeast actually next week. I'm not join you, but I'll be in the

00:04:02.340 Northeast next week, Megan. I'm used to living in Houston now. So basically, I'm charm and soft

00:04:07.240 when it comes to the cold. I used to be I grew up in Montana. I used to be all about that life. And now

00:04:12.160 the second it hits 40, I'm throwing on winter clothes and hats. It's my wife and me bundled up. So I'll be

00:04:19.380 dying. Oh, no. I have to say, like, I really miss snow. I as a kid who spent her first 10 years in

00:04:24.980 Syracuse and then moved to Albany, then went back to Syracuse for college. I miss snow. I used to have

00:04:31.500 snows like winters where I couldn't go outside because the snow was over my head. You know, my

00:04:35.900 parents had to be there holding my hand so that I could breathe. Now it's like every snowstorm gets

00:04:43.040 reduced from eight inches to three inches and then comes out at a half an inch or passes you by

00:04:48.260 altogether. It just feels so lame now. Megan, you know why you miss snow and I don't miss snow

00:04:54.560 because you were a daughter and daughters get spoiled by their parents. Not that I'm saying

00:04:58.840 you were spoiled, but daughters don't get woken up at 5 a.m. to go shovel the driveway like my dad 1.00

00:05:04.300 did with me in Montana before school. 5 a.m. He'd walk in and he'd laugh. He'd hand me a snow

00:05:09.580 shovel and say, better bundle up. It's cold out there. I was just shoveling the snow. That didn't

00:05:14.460 happen to young Megan Kelly. That's why you miss it and I don't. You're right. Never,

00:05:18.840 never once. I've never had to do it. And now it's fun because I have a little like a walkway

00:05:24.740 to get to my studio. And we even had it heated because Doug was like, we'll make the kids. The

00:05:30.960 kids will have to shovel the snow off of that. I was like, they're never going to do it. It's going

00:05:36.160 to be preschool. They're not going to go out there like I am not mean enough to them. So I'm like,

00:05:41.540 we're putting the heaters underneath the tiles. So I get out there because you're right. We're

00:05:45.520 raising them soft these days. That's right. All right. Well, anyway, we may be having snow this

00:05:51.480 weekend and my fingers crossed that it actually happens. Something else that's happening today

00:05:55.500 going into the weekend is not snow, but the opposite darkness, not the light of the beautiful

00:06:00.500 snowflakes, but the darkness of Brandon, who returns to the stump today as Joe Biden officially

00:06:06.440 starts doing 2024 campaign events and is going reportedly to deliver the message that democracy

00:06:14.820 depends on him, on his reelection. And now we see the strategy unfolding. The New York times did a

00:06:21.920 long piece on it this week, and we're going to hear more of it today. The Biden strategy of running

00:06:26.860 on Bidenomics and his record is failing. You've seen Trump is leading him in all seven of the swing

00:06:32.160 states among likely voters, among registered voters. He's just crushing. So they've got to

00:06:38.140 do something different. And so they're going to go back with a strategy, Jesse, that let's face it,

00:06:42.560 has worked for the Democrats in 20, in 22, and even in some extent, the 23 special elections,

00:06:49.820 which is make it all about Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump,

00:06:53.540 Trump, democracy dies and doctors, that kind of thing. What do you make of it?

00:06:56.080 I think it's as much as I despise it and despise him. It is brilliant politics. That's very effective.

00:07:02.600 It was earlier this week, Megan, Brandon Johnson, that idiot mayor of Chicago, that commie piece 1.00

00:07:07.640 of trash who's just wrecking the city. He gave a speech and he's very unpopular there, including

00:07:13.220 by the areas that elected him because the city's full of illegals. It's full of crime. Now everyone's 0.96

00:07:17.860 looking around. Oh my gosh, how could this happen anyway? So he gets up and he gives a speech,

00:07:21.580 Megan. And he starts talking about the Confederacy. Well, this is Jefferson Davis and the Confederacy.

00:07:27.220 And everyone kind of rolled their eyes and mocked him, but it was brilliant. Yeah. You hate me. You

00:07:31.520 hate me. You hate me. But look over there. They're even worse. That's it. There's the demons over there.

00:07:36.720 It's really all Joe Biden has. He's going to do the exact same thing for Trump. There's no record to

00:07:41.440 run on. Joe Biden is not popular at all, but they understand because of media poisoning and messaging,

00:07:47.760 which they've been very effective of. Donald Trump is not popular either. And so they're going to make

00:07:52.780 sure the election is about Trump and not Joe Biden. And I guess we'll see what happens.

00:07:58.480 Yeah. I mean, whenever they talk about Trump, Biden's numbers do go up. And I don't know that

00:08:03.260 Trump's exactly go down, but Democrats and independents get reminded of the drama that's

00:08:07.340 around Trump that they didn't really enjoy. Maybe they enjoyed his policies, but they didn't enjoy his

00:08:12.060 behavior around J6. And just when he was in office, there was a lot of drama where you kind of want

00:08:18.500 to be thinking about your own life, not the life of the guy sitting in the oval, right? That's kind of

00:08:24.060 the ideal government where that's one benefit of Joe Biden is you don't hear from him that often. He's

00:08:28.980 the shrinking executive because he has to be. Sadly, he's actually running a lot of crazy ass left

00:08:34.200 wing policies out of that oval thanks to the people around him. But in any event, I do. I agree with

00:08:39.380 you. I think it's a smart strategy, whether it's going to overcome the deficit that already exists.

00:08:44.860 I don't know. We've got, what, 11 months now, and those are going to include four criminal trials

00:08:49.380 for Trump and so on and so forth. So, I mean, how do you see it now? A lot of Republicans I talked to

00:08:53.640 out in Montana over the weekend of their vacation, they're feeling bullish. They're feeling like

00:08:58.100 Trump's going to get it and Trump's going to win. Yeah, I don't think I echo that. I'm not saying

00:09:04.480 he's not, but I definitely don't echo the optimism because this is what I see out there right now,

00:09:10.540 Megan. There's so many parts of this evil system we have in this country that are going to go all

00:09:16.400 in to try to make sure Donald Trump can never be elected president again. People talk about the

00:09:21.140 ballot. They're removing Trump from the ballot in Colorado. They're removing him from the ballot in

00:09:25.540 Maine. We have the indictments. We have this and that. And people ask me all the time, hey, Jesse,

00:09:29.460 what are they planning? What are they planning? What are they planning? The answer is everything.

00:09:33.780 Everything. Every different commie in this system, from secretaries of state to the commie street

00:09:38.740 trash to the senators, doesn't matter which one they are. They're all going to go all in with whatever 1.00

00:09:45.380 it takes to try to smear Trump, stop Trump, everything else. Are they going to be successful?

00:09:51.260 I don't have any idea. I don't have a crystal ball. But they were successful last time, Megan,

00:09:56.400 when Donald Trump was president of the United States of America. That's before he was convicted

00:10:01.600 of any felonies, which he will be, as unjust and stupid as that is. He's going to be convicted of

00:10:06.520 felonies. The media is going to make him out to be a disastrous insurrectionist felon. And is that

00:10:13.500 too much for the norms and normas of this country to vote for? I don't have the answer to that question,

00:10:18.820 but I don't feel near as confident as everyone else right now. Honestly, I roll my eyes, Megan,

00:10:24.300 when I see people on the right, talk about the poll numbers. Look at the polls. The polls look

00:10:28.860 great. The right does this thing where the left will make us eat 10 pounds of cow crap. And the 0.76

00:10:35.480 second they hand us a mint to wash the taste out of our mouth, we celebrate it like it's some kind

00:10:39.940 of a victory. I remember when Trump got arrested in Atlanta and they put his mugshot up there.

00:10:44.780 They arrested the former president over ridiculous charges, and they're going to send him to prison for

00:10:49.300 that. He's going to go to state prison in Georgia if he gets convicted to that. No ifs,

00:10:52.640 ands or buts because of the appeals process there. And the right spent an entire day celebrating how

00:10:57.600 cool the mugshot was. We're not even playing the same game here. They're all in on their game. They're

00:11:04.540 all in. They are going to do everything they can to destroy him, destroy his people and everything 0.99

00:11:08.980 else. And we still, we still pretend like it's a game on our side. Wow, did you see the new AT

00:11:14.580 poll? I find it to be childlike and ridiculous, to be honest. Well, and one bad thing about, you know,

00:11:20.200 those polls is, you know, the polls look pretty good before those 2022 midterms too. And we all

00:11:26.200 know how that worked out without the last minute conviction of any of those candidates and so on.

00:11:32.700 So you're right there. It's fraught with peril. People ask me all the time, same thing, like,

00:11:36.360 what's going to happen? And I think it's like obvious at this point that Trump's going to get

00:11:39.940 the nomination. Something absolutely catastrophic would have to happen for him not to get the nomination.

00:11:44.540 But am I that confident he's actually going to win? I'm not, because the Democrats are very good

00:11:50.140 at what they do and they're very disciplined. And, you know, I was talking to somebody today,

00:11:55.460 like friends with a diehard Democrat, and that Democrat was saying, what do you mean? He's not

00:12:00.500 too old. What do you mean? He's totally competent. What do you mean? What's happening at the border?

00:12:04.280 So there are a lot of these Democrats who are maybe well-educated, but low information voters

00:12:09.700 who they don't have the problems with Joe Biden that you might or I might, and are fully prepared

00:12:16.260 to rush to the polls and to get the caravans to go vote for him. And God knows what else will happen

00:12:21.040 on election day. I don't know. It's dark. Okay. There are other candidates in the race. He's not.

00:12:26.940 Yeah, go ahead. No, no, sorry. I just, that reminded me of a story. Speaking of Chicago,

00:12:31.460 sorry to interrupt it. What you just said reminded me of a story. I was on vacation myself a couple weeks

00:12:36.140 ago and ended up at a big table. And there were a couple of liberal white women there, you know, 1.00

00:12:39.720 the most evil creatures on the planet. And they were from Chicago and they were bragging all these

00:12:44.440 rich white women. And they were bragging about how they voted for Brandon Johnson. And one of them 1.00

00:12:47.800 called him BJ. Like that's like, they were buddies. That's all. I love BJ. We love BJ and other people

00:12:52.320 at the table. It wasn't really a political talk, but they started talking about the crime situation

00:12:56.400 in Chicago, how bad it was. People were getting shot and robbed and verbatim Megan on my life,

00:13:00.880 on my life, cross my heart and hope to die. This is what she said. Well, yeah, you might get robbed,

00:13:05.200 but you won't get targeted. What? That was honestly what she said, Megan. I know it. Well,

00:13:13.060 you might get robbed, Megan. If you go to Chicago, they might stick a gun in your face and take your

00:13:17.280 wallet, but they're not going to seek you out to murder you. So what's the big deal? What are you

00:13:21.160 complaining about? That's, that's how far gone these people are. Some of these people, Megan,

00:13:26.880 some of these people are so far gone. Their entire worldview has been built up by this. You can't,

00:13:32.640 you can't pull it out like a, like a game of Jenga or their entire world comes crumbling down.

00:13:37.420 That woman could get mugged tonight, Megan, tonight on her way home. That woman could get 1.00

00:13:42.020 assaulted and mugged and she would woke up to wake up tomorrow and vote Democrat. I don't know how

00:13:45.680 you fix that. Well, this, this brings me to my second topic, which is the downfall of Claudine Gay.

00:13:51.920 And I've heard many different takes on what, if you zoom out, what does it mean?

00:13:56.700 Um, our, our friends over on the ruthless program program, they were saying, this is great,

00:14:02.500 great news. Cause it's a, it's a win. It's finally like a win for the right, which never has its shit

00:14:07.760 together. And they never band together to get anything done. And this is one instance in which,

00:14:13.440 you know, you had the free beak and you had Chris Rufo, you had all these other commentators online,

00:14:18.420 and then you had the help of some centrist and left of center, very well-known folks like Bill

00:14:24.620 Ackman pushing for it. And it was a win to get this charlatan removed from what should have been

00:14:31.660 a prestigious position at one point, whether it is today, serious doubts. Okay. So I can see that.

00:14:38.100 Then you've got the leftist woke crowd, absolutely melting down that this was racist to remove her, 0.99

00:14:45.360 that this is just part of white people's rage in seeing black women elevated to the positions of 1.00

00:14:55.120 power that we deserve. We whites are very angry about black women like Claudine getting, getting 1.00

00:15:01.580 elevated. And that's what this is really about. Like our anger at her ascent to position of power. 0.73

00:15:06.760 Obviously you and I don't agree with that shit, but, but you know, the black women are still with Joe 1.00

00:15:11.560 Biden big time. And I do wonder whether they're more in that second camp. Like, yeah, you know,

00:15:18.900 they tend to be more woke. They tend to be more Democrat. So what, how does it all shake out though?

00:15:23.780 The right feels energized. The center left is migrating to us because they see wokeism has

00:15:28.960 corrupted our nation or the core woke left is totally activated. That as Rufo put it,

00:15:37.420 a scalp was taken by one of their beloved token black women atop the positions of power in America. 1.00

00:15:46.380 First of all, it's pretty emblematic that our first scalp is one that doesn't have hair.

00:15:51.460 That's that's one. It wasn't our scalp. It wasn't our scalp. Yes. We helped Christopher Rufo did great

00:15:57.800 work in the free beacon. They did great work on the plagiarism and things like that.

00:16:01.200 Claudine Gay is gone because some of, as you pointed out, the center left came for her and 0.94

00:16:07.200 the donors came for her. This reminds me of when Andrew Cuomo got sacked in New York.

00:16:11.860 Everyone celebrated on the right because Andrew Cuomo is a piece of trash. The right didn't take

00:16:16.220 out Andrew Cuomo. The Letitia James and the Democrat machine there knifed Andrew Cuomo on the ribs. The 0.98

00:16:22.120 right had nothing to do with that whatsoever. They were unable to take him out. We celebrate when the

00:16:27.580 commies kill each other, but that's what commies have always done. So look, I'm not saying it's a

00:16:31.820 bad thing. Frankly, Claudine Gay being fired at Harvard is just a good start. You'd be better off 1.00

00:16:37.420 if you fired everybody on the campus, bulldozed the buildings to the ground and made it into an

00:16:41.540 orphanage or something like that. That would actually be better for the country. As far as what it means

00:16:46.200 for Democrats, you're going to see a ton of something in this next year. And Joe Biden actually gave the

00:16:52.840 game away with his opening ad. He ran some opening ad. This is opening ad for 2024.

00:16:57.580 And one of the main issues, if not the only issue, if I remember right, he cited in there was voting

00:17:02.080 rights. Voting rights? What is it, 1950? What is he talking about voting rights? What they're going

00:17:09.100 to do is an endless amount of Black outreach in 2024 because one of the things that you know

00:17:15.640 that most people do not in Democrat circles is they must have 92, 93 percent of the Black vote to win

00:17:22.640 elections. If that number even drops down to 80, Democrats cannot win national elections.

00:17:27.600 Their party is based on getting virtually every Black vote in the country. They are losing some

00:17:33.340 of them right now because of the brilliant GOP stunt of shipping illegals into places like Chicago 0.86

00:17:39.140 and New York. They're shipping these people into the poor Black communities. Poor Black communities 1.00

00:17:43.320 already had crappy schools. Now they're overrun with a bunch of kids who don't even speak English, 0.97

00:17:47.300 and they're mad about the whole thing. But what I'm saying is Democrats are going to have to spend

00:17:51.700 an unusual amount of time and money doing Black outreach right now. And things like this

00:17:57.060 Claudine Gay stuff hurt that cause. That's why Obama was behind the scenes pushing to keep her. 1.00

00:18:03.940 They have to maintain that base, that Black woman base, the Black voting base, or they're not going 1.00

00:18:09.200 to be able to keep power. And you're going to see a lot of that in the 2024 election season.

00:18:13.740 It's amazing to me. It's like they want to say, oh, she was fired because she's a Black woman. 0.74

00:18:20.080 And meanwhile, the truth is the only reason she had the job is because she was a Black woman. That's

00:18:24.600 what people are objecting to. If she had been qualified, if she had done her job well, if she'd

00:18:28.700 been a true scholar, even if she'd been a leftist, that would have been fine. I mean, look at like,

00:18:33.460 and I'm not just picking conservatives, but look at Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She's a Black woman. 0.99

00:18:37.380 She's totally brilliant. I guarantee you Ayaan Hirsi Ali has never plagiarized anybody in her life.

00:18:42.100 I'd be thrilled if she got elevated to the president of Harvard or she's at the Hoover 0.99

00:18:46.000 Institution. Let's make it Stanford tomorrow, as would most people who are objecting to

00:18:51.640 Claudine Gay's behavior. It's not about race or her gender for people who want her gone. It's 1.00

00:18:59.260 it's the fact that she's a fraud. It's the fact that she doesn't belong in the position. And we 1.00

00:19:04.380 all know it. And even the people at Harvard have known it for a long time.

00:19:07.920 Yeah. But this is what the communist does, Megan. They know that to the people who are using that

00:19:13.700 they use these shields forever because they've always been effective on the right, because the right

00:19:19.720 has some sort of a moral founding, even though the right can get crazy, too. But they have some

00:19:24.140 sort of a moral fabric and the communist does not. He has no moral fabric. So he uses your values

00:19:29.000 against you. You would if you if someone actually thought you were a racist, Megan, if they genuinely

00:19:34.120 thought that that would bother you because you're not because you're a human, it would bother you

00:19:37.720 with somebody thought that the communist knows that they know you're not, but they know that.

00:19:42.880 So they understand a great way to maybe attack Megan Kelly or destroy her arguments is simply

00:19:47.900 call her a racist. They do this all the time. You're a misogynist. You're a racist. You're a Nazi.

00:19:52.500 You're a white supremacist. And what it does is it gets you off the topic at hand. I see the right

00:19:57.700 play this game all the time. It gets you off the topic at hand. And now you're talking about things

00:20:02.360 they want to talk about. Racist. I've got black friends. And now you're not even talking about

00:20:07.160 the issue at hand. I watched it happen during the final couple of years of Trump's presidency

00:20:11.280 when he would give an interview. And every time the reporter would have Trump denouncing white

00:20:16.000 supremacy, 18 minutes every single hour. Well, yes, I denounce white supremacy. Do you denounce it?

00:20:21.120 Yes, I denounce it. Playing their game on their field with their refs, enforcing their rules.

00:20:26.060 And we wonder why we lose the messaging battle, the race, misogyny, all that crap,

00:20:30.840 anti-gay stuff. All that stuff's just a shield they use to shut you up. We have to stop letting

00:20:35.940 it work. You are so right. Oh, my God. What you said is so right. And I'll give you an example

00:20:44.120 today of it in our current presidential politics. Nikki Haley was asked over the Christmas break

00:20:51.820 by, yes, it was obviously a Democrat plant, what started the Civil War, which she didn't answer

00:20:58.000 well. She did not mention slavery. But who the fuck, sorry, is talking in 2024 presidential race

00:21:05.080 about, gee, what led to the Civil War? Is that an issue? We're worried about the border. We're

00:21:09.800 worried about the economy. No one's worried about what started the Civil War right now.

00:21:15.520 So this is the Democrats launching a bomb into the campaign of someone they perceive as a threat

00:21:22.100 because the polls show she would beat Joe Biden by 11 points. Trump is beating Joe Biden by some four

00:21:29.120 to six points. She would beat him by 11. So they're terrified that she would get it. She's not

00:21:34.040 looking like she's going to get it. Let's be honest. But it'd be very helpful to have her kneecapped. 1.00

00:21:38.740 So she gets asked this question. She doesn't answer it well. And now here's the follow up on a CNN town

00:21:45.940 hall that happened last night and the CNN moderator throws the bomb back in her face again. And in

00:21:53.400 answering it, she makes yet another misstep, which then Van Jones and Abby Phillips on CNN freak out on

00:22:02.560 Nikki Haley about again when the town hall ends. Listen to SOT 10. I should have said slavery right off

00:22:11.540 the bat. But if you grow up in South Carolina, literally in second and third grade, you learn

00:22:18.360 about slavery. You grow up and you have, you know, I had black friends growing up. It is a very talked

00:22:25.000 about thing. I was over, I was thinking past slavery and talking about the lesson that we would learn

00:22:31.700 going forward. I shouldn't have done that. Okay. Wait, before I get you to respond, I love that you're

00:22:37.900 laughing. Wait, here's Van Jones after the fact. She was cleaning it up with a dirty rag. I mean, 0.99

00:22:44.920 it wasn't a cleanup at all. Um, it's painful. I don't get it. Um, I, I think it says something

00:22:52.640 about her. I think it says something about the Republican base. It's literally what you just said.

00:22:58.760 I had, I on my life, Megan, I had not seen that clip before I said it, but they all do it. I had

00:23:05.040 black friends. See, I want everyone to understand because normal people will run into this. It's not 0.96

00:23:11.260 just Nikki Haley with your liberal aunt Peggy. When she shows up at the Christmas party, screaming 0.99

00:23:15.500 about her, her 15th abortion, you're going to run into this with her as well. When they sit down with

00:23:20.580 you and they talk about the civil war, what about the Confederacy? What about Nazis? They're trying to 0.89

00:23:25.340 associate a term with you. They're trying to marry that term to you. They do this all the time,

00:23:30.580 masterfully and offense. You want to play offense against these people. All the GOP does is know how

00:23:35.680 to play defense. Well, I have black friends. Offense is, are you a Nazi? Yeah. Are you a pedophile?

00:23:42.640 Now that's a horrible thing to say, right? That's a horrible thing to say to somebody. Is it not? Well,

00:23:46.760 is it not horrible to associate me with Nazism? If we're going to associate words that have nothing to

00:23:51.760 do with me and you're going to try to attach them to me, then I'm going to attach them back. I'm

00:23:56.420 going to attach horrible words back to you. Jesse, do you denounce white supremacy? Do you denounce

00:24:01.380 pedophilia? Are you pro pedophilia? Prove that you're against pedophilia right now. That's actual

00:24:06.740 offense in changing the conversation. But the GOP is so scared of its own shadow, so scared of the media,

00:24:14.300 so scared of how they're going to be framed. They actually get themselves talking about the civil war

00:24:19.080 at all, Megan. As if Van Jones or any of those boobs on CNN actually have a single bit of emotional

00:24:28.940 attachment to the civil war. I'm a history freak. I love the civil war. I'm not emotional about the

00:24:34.620 whole thing. There's nothing you could say that would offend me about the civil war because it

00:24:38.100 was like 170 years ago or whatever it was. I don't do math very well. None of these people are emotional

00:24:43.280 about it. They're trying to attach something ugly to you. And all the GOP does is know how to meekly

00:24:48.960 back up. It's, I'm not racist. My black friends, it makes me want to vomit, honestly. 0.97

00:24:54.380 I know. I distinctly remember it was after, I don't know which controversy it was, but it was

00:25:00.140 one of the ridiculous controversies that the Media Matters crew was making up about me and

00:25:04.200 allegedly being a racist. And a couple of my friends who happened to be black were like,

00:25:09.480 should we go out and do a photo op together? And I was like, it's a hard no.

00:25:13.520 So we're good. Uh, no, but Nikki Haley just fell into the trap and you know, maybe she's too green. 1.00

00:25:21.660 Maybe it hasn't been done to her enough. I have to give credit. You and I have both ripped on the

00:25:25.520 vague when he's deserved it in the past, but he nailed it this week. It was a very good week for

00:25:30.160 him when Dasha Burns of NBC got after him. Um, first Washington post came for him, which I'll get

00:25:37.800 to in a second, but this just happened, I think yesterday and it's gone viral today. Dasha Burns

00:25:42.140 of NBC tried to turn him into, um, a racist or like a racist adjacent because of his positions on

00:25:50.880 various things. And truly it was a masterclass in how to handle this nonsense. Here it is in part.

00:25:55.500 Do you believe punctuality is a vestige of white supremacy, Dasha? Look, because if you don't,

00:26:02.460 then you have a disagreement about many of the people who are defining those terms

00:26:04.620 or the written word or the use or the nuclear family. This is, these aren't my words. These

00:26:09.440 are the words of intellectual proponents from Ibram Kendi to the Iona Presleys to BLM that have

00:26:14.260 said these are vestiges of white supremacy. So we can't have it both ways. We have to have an

00:26:18.380 honest discussion. You brought up Jussie Smollett as the best example of white supremacy.

00:26:25.500 News in the back of a fake actual attack on him that we have to contend with.

00:26:29.640 And yet, and yet you have examples like the Buffalo shooter in New York, just in 2022.

00:26:35.600 You have other examples.

00:26:36.240 But you are also cherry picking when you bring up Jussie Smollett.

00:26:38.480 I'll look at all of the statistics. More black on black crime. If you really care about actual 1.00

00:26:42.800 crime against black Americans, let's get to the root causes of it in the inner cities of 0.98

00:26:46.540 this country.

00:26:46.960 The Anti-Defamation League tracked a 38% increase in white supremacist propaganda last year.

00:26:52.520 Who's tracking that?

00:26:53.280 The Anti-Defamation League.

00:26:54.460 Yeah, the ADL, I don't think is a particularly credible source.

00:26:57.040 It really is right now.

00:26:57.600 I think the media did not hold the police accountable.

00:26:59.380 They would have been demanding that.

00:27:00.480 The Republicans are actually starting to gain ground, gain traction with the black community,

00:27:03.760 with Latino voters.

00:27:04.740 Do not worry that your rhetoric is pushing them away.

00:27:08.160 There are folks in the GOP right now who are concerned about your rhetoric.

00:27:12.580 Well, you know what? I'm concerned about their corruption.

00:27:14.960 The election is a debate that is being had.

00:27:16.960 If I may just finish this, if I may finish my point, Dasha, I think I will be better

00:27:21.320 positioning.

00:27:21.920 But you're denying that racism is a problem.

00:27:23.500 I've never denied that racism are a problem.

00:27:25.560 We're getting close to the promised land that Martin Luther King envisioned.

00:27:28.980 We're as darn close to it as we ever have been.

00:27:31.700 And so what bothers the heck out of me is it's right when we're close to that promised

00:27:35.280 land.

00:27:35.960 Martin Luther King said it.

00:27:36.840 I may not get there with you, and he didn't get there with us.

00:27:39.140 But I think it desecrates the legacy of our civil rights movement.

00:27:41.740 It desecrates the legacy of Martin Luther King that right when we get closest to the

00:27:45.280 point of having racial equality and gender equality and even opportunities for people

00:27:49.820 of minorities of many types, are we perfect?

00:27:52.360 No.

00:27:52.500 But are we as close as we've ever been?

00:27:53.900 Yes, we have.

00:27:55.300 To then obsess over systemic racism, to then obsess over white guilt and otherwise, we're

00:28:00.500 creating new waves of racism, Dasha, that we otherwise would have avoided right when

00:28:05.120 we're closest to having achieved what even the proponents of the civil rights movement

00:28:09.300 would have dreamed of.

00:28:11.740 Boom.

00:28:14.720 That's how it's done right there.

00:28:16.340 A plus plus.

00:28:17.920 Pretty well done.

00:28:19.340 And like I've said, I don't trust Vivek at all.

00:28:22.820 I find him to be extremely untrustworthy and snake oily, but I want to make sure I give

00:28:27.660 him all the credit in the world.

00:28:28.860 He's become a chaos agent, which we need on the right that someone who's smart enough

00:28:33.860 and charismatic enough to change the conversation and make these people look and feel stupid.

00:28:38.440 And he gets all the credit in the world for that.

00:28:41.120 I will push back on just one thing he said there, but it's a very minor criticism.

00:28:45.720 We're not as close as we've ever been to some kind of racial harmony.

00:28:49.000 We were as close as we've ever been to some kind of racial harmony, probably in the 80s

00:28:52.960 in this country, maybe even the 90s.

00:28:55.260 And then the communists in this country decided they could use the civil rights thing to really

00:29:00.580 blow the society up.

00:29:01.640 But that's what all this is about, Megan.

00:29:02.800 That's what Dasha Burns really wants.

00:29:04.260 She's not a journalist.

00:29:05.420 She's an apparatchik.

00:29:06.620 All this race stuff, the gay stuff, all this stuff, this is all about just blowing the 1.00

00:29:10.240 country up.

00:29:10.760 It's all about destruction.

00:29:12.100 If tomorrow every single position of power was occupied by a black person in this country, 1.00

00:29:17.120 they wouldn't slow down or back off for even a second because it has nothing to do with

00:29:20.960 black people or gay people or women or whatever it is.

00:29:23.940 Everything's about destruction.

00:29:25.220 When you understand it's all just about destruction.

00:29:27.780 That's why they want to destroy the nuclear family. 1.00

00:29:29.680 That's why they want to cut your kid's penis off. 1.00

00:29:31.760 That's why they want the border wide open.

00:29:33.460 It's not accidental.

00:29:34.860 They're not misguided.

00:29:36.160 They're not liberal.

00:29:37.440 They're not slightly left.

00:29:38.620 They're not progressives.

00:29:39.560 These are evil, dirty, demonic communists who are out there to destroy everything, and

00:29:44.580 they're being very successful at it at this point in time.

00:29:46.660 So what happened in that clip was just, I mean, he saw her coming from a mile away, and

00:29:51.280 he's obviously way smarter than she is.

00:29:53.700 She's like, Dasha Burns, pick somebody else. 0.74

00:29:55.940 Try someone dumber.

00:29:57.440 Because he's, I mean, he's literally written the book on wokeness and what they're trying

00:30:01.560 to do on the left, similar to what you were just saying.

00:30:04.020 And one of the things that struck me was here she is clearly trying to perform for her

00:30:09.120 leftist base over on NBC.

00:30:10.880 And you can see like the plaintiff whining, what about this?

00:30:15.200 You raised Jussie Smollett.

00:30:17.020 What about white supremacy and the Anti-Defamation League?

00:30:22.400 And it was, it's so nice to hear a politician who's done his homework, who knows that the

00:30:27.600 ADL is a joke of an institution that only ever criticizes people on the right.

00:30:34.600 Go Google what they've said about Tucker Carlson.

00:30:36.820 I mean, they, and by the way, they completely mission strayed from where they originally began.

00:30:42.020 They've started to sound a little bit more like a policing organization for anti-Semitic

00:30:47.000 comments against Jews in the wake of the Israel attack.

00:30:49.680 But really their favorite cause for the past 10 years has just been anything a conservative

00:30:53.300 says, anything a conservative says that's not woke.

00:30:56.180 So good for Vivek for knowing that there's absolutely no stock to be put into this group and shoving

00:31:02.020 it back in her face, her whiny little unprofessional face. 0.98

00:31:06.160 Dasha, you embarrassed yourself.

00:31:08.080 I think you got shamed after your John Fetterman interview because you told the truth about what

00:31:13.880 a mess he was in that particular sit down.

00:31:16.320 And ever since you've been trying to make it up to your leftist base to prove you're one of them.

00:31:21.980 Okay.

00:31:22.620 Good luck in your future journalism career.

00:31:25.760 Let me squeeze in a quick break and then we'll come back.

00:31:28.060 And we have so much more fun to do, Jesse Kelly.

00:31:29.780 It's wonderful having you here.

00:31:31.540 Don't go away.

00:31:32.160 More with my fellow Kelly coming up.

00:31:37.160 What funny and bright spot in the whole mess.

00:31:39.780 Love to see Claudine Gay go.

00:31:41.180 She did not deserve the position.

00:31:42.400 She was an intellectual thief.

00:31:43.500 So I have no empathy for her and her firing.

00:31:46.740 She was, she resigned.

00:31:48.000 Sorry.

00:31:48.360 Let me correct it.

00:31:48.900 She resigned.

00:31:49.540 Sure.

00:31:49.800 Sure, Jan.

00:31:50.320 Oh, I don't need to say it.

00:31:52.140 Sure, Jan.

00:31:56.320 Okay.

00:31:59.040 Anyway, is Al Sharpton, Jesse?

00:32:03.100 Al Sharpton.

00:32:05.100 I mean, is there a bigger race hustler in America decided to punish Bill Ackman, the billionaire

00:32:10.780 investor who's been pushing to get these three women who's abominable testimony on Capitol 1.00

00:32:15.660 Hill got them in trouble to begin with.

00:32:16.940 And he's outside of Bill Ackman's office with like the people he met on the subway that day.

00:32:23.940 He got like no one.

00:32:25.940 He's like, we are going to storm Bill Ackman's building.

00:32:30.600 Look at this.

00:32:31.440 I could fall asleep in the middle of this tapioca pudding fest.

00:32:34.340 He's, he's, he's lost it.

00:32:37.040 It's done.

00:32:38.160 People like this guy don't have the power they used to.

00:32:41.580 No, but that's all he knows, Megan.

00:32:43.400 And Al Sharpton, I've always thought he was an odd character, a very odd character.

00:32:47.180 One, he looked better when he was fat.

00:32:49.180 That's, you never see that, but he did.

00:32:50.840 He looked a lot better when he was fat.

00:32:52.260 He lost way too much weight.

00:32:53.400 Now he looks like a lollipop and it weirds me out every time I see the guy and he's kind

00:32:58.180 of lost the risk.

00:32:59.500 He does.

00:33:00.100 He does.

00:33:00.560 It looks all shrunken in to go get a donut or something like that.

00:33:03.740 He looks terrible.

00:33:04.660 That's one too.

00:33:06.000 He's clinging to something that has worked for him.

00:33:08.780 Only now it's kind of old and pathetic a little bit.

00:33:12.840 Have you ever, I'm 42 now, so I'm getting older.

00:33:15.440 Megan, you ever seen that guy get up and play pickup basketball?

00:33:18.260 And you can tell he used to be okay when he was younger.

00:33:20.580 And now he's out of breath after one time up the court and he just can't really do it

00:33:24.940 anymore.

00:33:25.400 It's kind of embarrassing.

00:33:26.600 That's Al Sharpton when he shows up to all these civil rights protests now.

00:33:30.120 Like I get it now.

00:33:31.080 That's all you've known, but go to the Caribbean with more tax money you didn't pay.

00:33:36.740 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:33:38.080 So, but he can't get it.

00:33:39.260 I mean, truly he's, he's out of magic acorns and you can see it, but he's still playing the

00:33:43.240 same game.

00:33:44.300 Now you have a Ellie Mastall. 1.00

00:33:46.580 He's a white house correspondent for the nation.

00:33:48.640 Listen, he's, listen to, listen to this racist stuff.

00:33:51.920 I mean, this guy, he's constantly on MSNBC.

00:33:55.480 All of this is happening, Claudine Gay, because racist white folks had to chew with their mouths

00:34:01.420 closed for two months after George Floyd was murdered.

00:34:04.560 And now they're on their revenge arc.

00:34:08.020 They'll keep roasting any black people they can get their hands on until they satiate their 1.00

00:34:12.780 bloodlust while people from apartheid states call for colorblind societies. 0.82

00:34:18.840 There's never a solution for this.

00:34:21.040 Racist whites just do this whenever they feel their positions of power are threatened.

00:34:26.440 The best advice I can give to any black person is hard to follow. 0.99

00:34:29.280 So hard.

00:34:30.000 I don't always do it myself.

00:34:31.480 But the trick is to not ever rely on white folks for anything.

00:34:35.480 Because if you do, then that means they can take it from you the moment they get in their

00:34:40.840 feelings, whatever that means.

00:34:42.320 They can take it from you.

00:34:44.100 Can you imagine if a white person tweeted anything like this about a person of color?

00:34:50.520 Yeah, look, we joke a lot, Megan, you and I, and I'm glad we do.

00:34:55.520 But this is one of the things that we really, we should talk about more.

00:35:00.620 There's a dangerous situation happening in this country, and history books say it's a

00:35:05.060 dangerous situation.

00:35:06.020 Whenever you take any group of people, whether it be a religion or skin color or whatever,

00:35:10.440 and you other them, they're the problem.

00:35:12.540 They're the problem.

00:35:13.120 They're the problem.

00:35:13.660 They're the problem.

00:35:14.480 And othering them becomes sanctioned at the highest levels.

00:35:18.480 It's not, you know, one dirt ball on the street corner.

00:35:20.540 I hate white people.

00:35:21.620 When you hear that kind of rhetoric from the president, from media figures, from academics,

00:35:26.460 Harvard, all the others, when it is universal across the board, white people suck, white 1.00

00:35:30.940 people suck, white people are evil. 0.91

00:35:32.700 Kids learn about this in elementary school.

00:35:34.980 They learn about white colonizers and all these things all over the country.

00:35:38.680 What you're doing is you're creating a very dangerous situation for white people in this 0.65

00:35:42.800 country.

00:35:43.540 And I know it's very hard to see this now because we live in the United States of America.

00:35:47.180 But all it would take would be a nudge.

00:35:50.540 And this can manifest itself in some really, really ugly, really violent ways.

00:35:55.620 And it would be nice if one political party in this country had the balls to actually step

00:36:01.380 up and start talking about it in honest ways.

00:36:03.540 Not that I'm holding out for that at all.

00:36:05.180 They're all going to still try to play the commie game.

00:36:07.380 But it would be really nice if we could talk about the systemic racism that is taking place

00:36:12.160 in this country.

00:36:12.940 Again, racism is always bad.

00:36:14.660 But if one guy on the street corner hates me for the color of my skin, OK, that sucks.

00:36:18.680 I just walk away.

00:36:20.080 If it's sanctioned by the DOJ president, by academics, by everything else, sanctioned racism

00:36:26.580 by the institutions of a nation is what ends up killing people.

00:36:30.900 And there's an anti-white racism in this country that's despicable and should be talked about

00:36:34.900 a lot more.

00:36:35.360 Yes, this guy, Elie Mestal, has it in droves.

00:36:40.020 He's a racist.

00:36:41.960 He hates white people.

00:36:44.020 Can you imagine sending out a tweet about black folks just pissed off they had to chew with

00:36:50.960 their mouths closed for two months and talking about black bloodlust?

00:36:56.400 The blacks will keep roasting any white people they can get their hands on. 1.00

00:37:00.300 That's I'm just reversing the races in what he put out, what he put in writing and posted

00:37:07.120 and said the trick is, can you imagine it reversed again, to not ever rely on black folks for

00:37:12.960 anything because they can take it.

00:37:14.940 My God, the hatred this guy has.

00:37:18.160 And as I point out, he's a White House correspondent for a major publication.

00:37:21.400 He's all over MSNBC.

00:37:23.040 He's on Joy Reid every night.

00:37:24.720 How does this guy still have a job?

00:37:26.740 It's unbelievable to me.

00:37:28.680 He's on MSNBC every other night.

00:37:31.480 I left NBC because I talked about Halloween costumes.

00:37:35.820 It's like it's insane.

00:37:37.760 And then he's like, they're out for the blacks. 0.99

00:37:40.540 That's the problem.

00:37:41.500 Like, what are you saying?

00:37:43.700 It's it's completely backwards.

00:37:46.180 The one comfort I have, Jesse, is that some people are talking about it now.

00:37:49.720 So today, the beginning of 2024, unlike five years ago, even when it like nobody was saying

00:37:57.760 anything about this racism, you know, by people like Ellie Mistal. 0.82

00:38:01.900 Now it's more understandable.

00:38:04.000 Now they've been stewing in it for five plus years.

00:38:07.620 And you see it at every corner.

00:38:09.460 You see it everywhere.

00:38:10.860 People have had it.

00:38:11.960 And you're right.

00:38:12.380 The question is, how much have they had it and how much more are we going to allow this

00:38:15.920 to go on because it's it's stirring up terrible racial tensions?

00:38:20.980 It is.

00:38:21.700 And people don't know how to push back on it.

00:38:25.080 Right.

00:38:25.480 Megan, because most people are not racist.

00:38:28.040 It's certainly not most people on the right.

00:38:29.860 There's not racist.

00:38:30.860 I mean, are there some?

00:38:31.760 Of course, there's some everywhere.

00:38:32.820 That's human nature.

00:38:33.900 But most people are not.

00:38:35.760 And so when it happens to them, they're really tempted to just kind of shrivel up or ignore

00:38:41.080 it or they don't want to talk about it because our social shame system is so upside down in

00:38:45.560 this country, you're not allowed to push back on that.

00:38:48.180 But people have to start getting a lot more vocal about naming this and attacking these

00:38:53.280 people, because, again, I can't stress this enough.

00:38:55.740 Like you just pointed out, this is not some person.

00:38:58.520 This is not some random dude sitting in his mom's apartment putting out something stupid

00:39:02.740 on social media.

00:39:04.040 This stuff has been institutionalized at the highest levels.

00:39:07.900 The head of the DHS, CIA, FBI, presidents, Harvard presidents, people and everyone in

00:39:15.940 between, they openly talk about this stuff.

00:39:18.680 Now, white people suck, white this, white that. 0.99

00:39:21.480 And that is dangerous.

00:39:22.980 And I wish I really wish there was a much bigger movement pushing back against it.

00:39:27.600 But that's what communism does.

00:39:29.020 Megan, you and I have talked about this before that I talk about you were talking about Montana.

00:39:33.240 We used to go hiking in Montana and you'd see eventually these huge boulders, bigger than

00:39:37.780 a car, and you'd go hiking and you'd find one that had been split in two or split in

00:39:42.240 three places.

00:39:43.140 And you're thinking to yourself, was it God himself that came down with an axe?

00:39:46.620 What could possibly have split this?

00:39:48.220 What split it was, over time, rocks like societies develop cracks.

00:39:52.760 Those cracks eventually get water in them.

00:39:55.300 And then it's Montana.

00:39:56.740 The freeze comes, the water expands, the boulder, boom, splits in two.

00:40:00.440 Communism is the water.

00:40:01.820 That's what it is in any society.

00:40:03.340 And that's exactly what these people are.

00:40:04.860 They're just destroyers.

00:40:06.460 We were on the way to having a relatively harmonious society a few decades ago.

00:40:10.880 And now everyone is more racist than ever.

00:40:13.540 The black people are.

00:40:14.360 The white people are. 0.59

00:40:15.200 The Mexicans are. 0.99

00:40:15.840 Everyone else.

00:40:16.740 Because of this.

00:40:17.700 That's what they do.

00:40:18.620 They dig in and they split us all apart from each other.

00:40:21.420 It's really gross.

00:40:22.400 But people are scared to discuss it because no one wants to be called a racist.

00:40:26.760 It's unbelievable.

00:40:28.220 To correct myself, he's the justice correspondent for the nation.

00:40:31.320 This is him in 2021.

00:40:33.020 Same guy.

00:40:33.480 2021.

00:40:34.940 He wrote a piece in the nation.

00:40:37.000 I am not ready to reenter white society after the pandemic. 0.79

00:40:40.620 Couple highlights.

00:40:42.260 As the pandemic wanes and I have to leave the safety of my whiteness-free castle, I know 1.00

00:40:47.600 that racism is going to come roaring back into my daily life.

00:40:50.740 Over the past year, I have, of course, still had to interact with white people on Zoom or 0.81

00:40:54.720 watch them on television or worry about whether they would succeed in re-electing a white

00:40:58.520 supremacist president.

00:40:59.740 But white people aren't in my face all the time.

00:41:01.780 I can more or less only deal with whiteness when I want to. 0.96

00:41:05.280 White people haven't improved. 1.00

00:41:07.120 I've just been able to limit my exposure to them.

00:41:09.920 This man is gainfully employed and appearing on MSNBC every other night.

00:41:16.160 I don't even know what to say.

00:41:18.140 Our media is disgusting.

00:41:19.660 The double standard on racism is disgusting.

00:41:23.620 And while we may not be able to defeat it, we can certainly call it out.

00:41:26.700 Okay, before I move on from the Claudine Gay thing, I do think it's interesting, speaking

00:41:32.720 of the disgusting media, now they're doing hit pieces on Bill Ackman's wife. 0.98

00:41:37.520 I mentioned Bill Ackman, the billionaire who's been fighting back against anti-Semitism and

00:41:41.680 led the charge to get rid of Liz McGill and now Claudine Gay, and now is looking at the

00:41:45.660 MIT lady, Business Insider comes out with a hit piece on his wife, who used to be at

00:41:51.460 MIT and I think did her PhD at MIT, and went back and dissected her dissertation and found

00:42:00.100 some paragraphs that they say should have had quotations around.

00:42:05.120 Like she did cite the author, you know, but she didn't put the quotes on right before,

00:42:10.380 like she said, you know, X, Y, and Z, period.

00:42:14.080 See, Jesse Kelly, I'm right.

00:42:15.700 But she didn't actually put the quotation marks in there.

00:42:18.120 So this is the game they play, right?

00:42:20.400 Like, take that, Bill Ackman will humiliate your wife if you stay on this tear.

00:42:27.040 Yeah, they understand.

00:42:28.760 I'll give the communists credit for this. 0.95

00:42:30.320 They understand how powerful social shame is.

00:42:33.440 I call it the social shame system.

00:42:35.680 But they understand, they create these organizations, the ADL, like you were talking about earlier.

00:42:40.440 They'll work for this publication.

00:42:42.840 They'll take over this publication.

00:42:44.640 And what they do is they whip up mobs that intimidate good people from coming out.

00:42:49.260 That's really what they want.

00:42:50.400 They want you on their side.

00:42:51.860 But if you're not on their side, they at least want you to shut up and be afraid.

00:42:55.280 And this is why they do the things they do.

00:42:57.040 You got this dude, Ackman, he speaks up.

00:42:59.120 They're going after his wife.

00:43:00.620 Why do they do that?

00:43:01.500 One, to shut him up.

00:43:02.740 But two, so the next billionaire doesn't get quite so out about that because he doesn't

00:43:07.560 want a new hit piece in the New York Times or whatever, ADL, whatever it may be.

00:43:12.360 They're very good at social shame.

00:43:14.980 They're very good at making you feel like the heat of a thousand suns is on you.

00:43:20.140 So you'll shut up and go away.

00:43:22.160 And if you let them, they will win.

00:43:24.080 And this is not abnormal.

00:43:25.320 This is what the commies have always done everywhere.

00:43:28.740 I mean, they used to stand in front of your business in Mao's China and scream at anybody

00:43:33.820 who came inside of your shop because you were one of the bad people.

00:43:37.300 It's a social shame system. 0.82

00:43:38.900 You didn't want to be marked as the person who was walking in to buy wontons from Jim because

00:43:43.060 you were one of the bad ones.

00:43:44.480 And so eventually people stopped going and you had to leave the country.

00:43:47.820 You went out of business.

00:43:48.660 They do the exact same thing in this country with the various little lefty organizations.

00:43:53.560 And as you know, Megan, lots of these organizations are nonprofits.

00:43:57.240 Our nonprofit industry is flat out criminal in this country.

00:44:00.480 So much of these nonprofits are funded because you're not allowed to know who the donors are

00:44:04.240 by these big commie billionaires and they do blatantly political things.

00:44:08.800 Very nonpartisan report on why Megyn Kelly is an evil misogynist and a racist.

00:44:12.960 And they'll put these things out there.

00:44:14.640 And then the other parts of society will cite the nonprofit as it's somehow legitimate.

00:44:20.320 Well, you see Joe Biden got up and he said the ADL said Megyn Kelly's a racist.

00:44:24.120 You see, that's an official organization.

00:44:26.100 That's how they work.

00:44:26.980 And it's it's very effective, to be honest with you.

00:44:28.920 Yeah, they've been working very hard to do this to Tucker Carlson for quite some time,

00:44:32.520 like completely diminishing this raging racist misogynist, put him on the front page of the

00:44:37.080 New York Times, all in an effort to discredit.

00:44:39.340 That's why the ADL got involved in Tucker Carlson's alleged misogyny and racism is supposed to be 0.99

00:44:43.980 an anti in any event.

00:44:45.060 OK, I got to end with this.

00:44:47.120 Good news.

00:44:48.200 Good news out of New Hampshire, which I have to say makes me feel very happy because it's

00:44:55.560 I know it's not exactly a deep red state.

00:44:58.200 And here the New Hampshire House has voted for sanity, saying we approve a ban on these

00:45:07.200 gender reassignment procedures for minors.

00:45:11.280 How did they do it?

00:45:12.300 They got 12 Democrats, 12.

00:45:14.700 That's not a small amount to cross the aisle.

00:45:17.020 Two Republicans abandoned, but they got 12 Dems to vote in favor of the band.

00:45:22.060 Here is one of the heroes.

00:45:23.820 Didn't go as far as I would have liked.

00:45:25.020 I would have liked puberty blockers into cross sex hormones banned because it sterilizes kids. 0.99

00:45:29.760 But I'll take what I can get for now.

00:45:32.500 Take a listen to Representative Jonah Wheeler, Democrat, on why he did it.

00:45:38.340 Rise today, despite the uncomfortability of this vote, because for me, it comes down to

00:45:46.260 whether or not kids should be able to get these surgeries.

00:45:49.280 And despite the fact that I am a liberal, despite the fact that I believe in non-discrimination

00:45:55.400 for trans people, for gay people, for queer people, and that I will fight until my very

00:46:01.720 last day, until they are recognized as human beings.

00:46:06.120 The question before us is whether or not children under the age of 18 should be able to get these

00:46:13.940 surgeries.

00:46:14.320 And they should not.

00:46:17.280 These are irreversible surgeries.

00:46:21.300 God bless him.

00:46:22.500 I honestly feel like divine intervention went into New Hampshire last night and made this

00:46:27.040 happen.

00:46:27.420 This can't keep happening to children.

00:46:30.320 No, it is a step in the right direction, Megan.

00:46:32.960 And so I don't want to be a king cynic here.

00:46:34.740 It is a step in the right direction.

00:46:36.040 And I applaud them for doing it.

00:46:37.480 I applaud those Democrats because that takes guts.

00:46:39.500 They're going to take a lot of heat now.

00:46:40.820 At the same time, I will just say, just to close out with this, we are in a lot of trouble

00:46:47.020 as a society because these bans are even something that has to happen.

00:46:51.420 I'm all about the bans, right?

00:46:52.580 That's great.

00:46:53.080 But you shouldn't have to ban doctors from cutting off a 13-year-old girl's breasts. 1.00

00:46:58.800 That's not a thing that should ever have to come up before the law because it should

00:47:02.040 never occur to a doctor to do that.

00:47:03.660 And even if it did occur to one of them to do that, he should be so afraid of society that

00:47:08.320 he wouldn't do it.

00:47:09.340 So I'm glad we have these bans.

00:47:10.540 I hope we keep banning them.

00:47:11.720 But it goes to show we don't have a politician problem.

00:47:14.420 We have a people problem, like I talk about on my show all the time.

00:47:17.500 By the way, the Jesse Kelly Show podcast, go subscribe to it, everybody.

00:47:21.740 Yes, all Kelly shows are very entertaining.

00:47:24.060 I think you'll really enjoy my brother Jesse's program.

00:47:27.400 He's just a brother in ideology and sense, not blood brother.

00:47:30.940 But maybe somehow, you know, you never know.

00:47:32.300 We went back and traced our roots.

00:47:33.320 Maybe one day we'll do it.

00:47:35.320 Yes, I do feel like sanity prevailed there.

00:47:37.820 But you're absolutely right, the fact that it's a problem to begin with.

00:47:40.060 And if you look at I'll see it, I'll just say in a couple seconds we have left, it's

00:47:44.620 already like the problem starting to percolate up.

00:47:46.940 I'm sorry to say when it comes to pedophilia and the attempt to normalize, quote, minor

00:47:54.620 attracted men.

00:47:57.040 It's always men. 0.99

00:47:58.180 Yeah.

00:47:58.600 It's happening in some corners of the left.

00:48:00.720 There was a publication on Vice yesterday that was raising.

00:48:06.180 Oh, they're they're they're pushing, you know, like the pedophilia, the crazy right in response

00:48:11.000 to Jeffrey Epstein.

00:48:12.520 OK, no, he actually was accused of wanting underage girls and having.

00:48:17.240 So there's there should be no normalization of it.

00:48:19.480 There should only be people who call it out.

00:48:21.000 And anybody who deigns to actually do it should be ostracized.

00:48:24.360 And in that case, locked up.

00:48:26.780 Jesse Kelly, you're the best.

00:48:27.740 Thanks for coming on.

00:48:29.160 Thanks, Megan.

00:48:30.100 Appreciate you.

00:48:30.860 All right.

00:48:31.100 Next up, crazy, crazy spying on you glasses.

00:48:35.560 Don't go away.

00:48:39.720 Are you ready for something scary?

00:48:41.560 I've been wanting to talk to this woman for a long time.

00:48:44.760 We are hearing a lot these days about artificial intelligence, of course, or AI.

00:48:49.060 But here's one way it's already changing our lives, even if you don't know it.

00:48:52.940 There's one good piece of it and there's one potentially very disturbing piece of it, at

00:48:56.920 least joining me now to explain what I'm talking about is New York Times journalist

00:49:00.860 Cashmere Hill.

00:49:02.440 She specializes in, quote, looming tech dystopia.

00:49:06.460 How about that for an area of expertise?

00:49:08.720 And is the author of the national bestseller, Your Face Belongs to Us, a secretive startup's

00:49:14.880 quest to end privacy as we know it.

00:49:18.540 It is the riveting story of a small AI company that advanced facial recognition technology

00:49:24.040 and in the process may have ended privacy.

00:49:28.560 Yours and mine as we know it.

00:49:31.180 Cashmere, welcome to the show.

00:49:32.580 Great to have you.

00:49:33.960 Hi, Megan.

00:49:34.620 Thanks for having me.

00:49:36.320 Okay.

00:49:36.580 So first of all, your name is based on a Led Zeppelin song.

00:49:39.660 That's amazing.

00:49:41.140 It is.

00:49:42.240 My parents named me after.

00:49:43.520 Cashmere.

00:49:44.360 Yes.

00:49:44.960 It's unique.

00:49:46.740 Good for them.

00:49:47.540 I talked to Crystal Ball when she first became a public person and I was like, what's the

00:49:51.580 deal with your name?

00:49:52.960 And her dad was like some sort of, he was a nuclear physicist or an astrologist.

00:49:57.320 I can't remember.

00:49:57.800 It was something like that.

00:49:58.480 He was just obsessed with the skies.

00:50:01.460 And that's where her name came from.

00:50:03.180 Okay.

00:50:03.460 So this, this is a great book because it's got something for everyone, Cashmere.

00:50:08.980 It's like, I think the left is generally not to reduce everything to politics, but I think

00:50:12.920 the left is generally concerned about AI and like where it's going.

00:50:15.580 And I know the right is very concerned about giving government more power to spy on us and not just

00:50:23.680 government, but even third party agencies or anybody.

00:50:26.500 And I, for me, it's, it's most, it's interesting for both of those reasons, but it's also interesting

00:50:31.080 because I really do care about like women who are the victims of domestic violence or

00:50:37.640 stalkers, which has happened to me and like the number of things you have to go through in

00:50:42.560 order to protect yourself.

00:50:43.640 And look, let's face it, I've got some money so I can do that with relative ease these days.

00:50:49.120 But most women who are subjected to domestic violence or stalkers have no money and just 0.99

00:50:55.420 the hoops that they have to jump through to try to protect themselves are already too great.

00:50:58.480 And this technology that you wrote about doesn't work to their advantage at all.

00:51:04.160 Okay.

00:51:04.400 So that's the setup.

00:51:05.760 So tell us just how you sort of got started on this.

00:51:09.700 Because I know, I think you were in my friend, Meryl Gordon's journalism class, right?

00:51:14.980 Yes, I was.

00:51:16.660 Yeah.

00:51:17.240 Yeah.

00:51:17.520 How far back do you want to get started here?

00:51:20.340 Well, no, because I mean, like you, I'm just curious, what made this your beat once

00:51:24.880 you got into journalism?

00:51:26.640 Yeah.

00:51:26.960 So journalism for me was kind of a second career.

00:51:29.900 I had worked at a law firm as a paralegal.

00:51:32.520 I'd worked at a nonprofit.

00:51:34.380 And I was in my late 20s when I started on the journalism journal journey and was in Meryl

00:51:39.920 Gordon's class at NYU and was thinking about, you know, what should my beat be?

00:51:44.240 What do I want to do in journalism?

00:51:45.480 Uh, and at the same time, I was thinking about how invasive the practice of journalism is

00:51:51.580 that you're writing about people who sometimes don't want to be written about, uh, you're

00:51:56.320 determining a reputation.

00:51:57.840 It was around 2008.

00:52:00.400 The iPhone had just come out.

00:52:02.020 Everybody was getting onto Facebook.

00:52:03.700 And I just was thinking a lot about what privacy was in the modern age with all of this new

00:52:09.020 technology.

00:52:09.540 And so at NYU, I pitched a beat called the not so private parts about this kind of intersection

00:52:15.780 or collision of, of tech and privacy.

00:52:18.600 And it was supposed to be a year long project, but it's what I've been writing about in the

00:52:23.340 decade plus since.

00:52:25.340 Your most recent piece I saw was about how our cars are spying on us and are being used

00:52:32.420 in some circumstances by when people get a divorce.

00:52:35.300 If one spouse is the registered owner, he or she can spy on the spouse who may get the

00:52:43.340 car in the separation agreement.

00:52:45.680 And there's very little you can do about it.

00:52:49.080 Yeah.

00:52:49.620 I mean, the world that we live in now is just so difficult in so many ways because, you know,

00:52:55.920 the, all these objects are internet connected things in your home, you know, your TV, uh,

00:53:01.040 your coffee pot, maybe, and cars now are, are collecting a lot of data.

00:53:06.180 Um, it's, it's concerning because most people don't understand how much information is being

00:53:10.720 collected, where it goes, how it's being used.

00:53:13.380 And this particular issue I was writing about in this story is that many modern cars have

00:53:18.360 apps that you can use to see where they are, to unlock them, to make the horn honk.

00:53:24.520 They're convenient features when, you know, you park somewhere in the parking lot and you

00:53:27.860 can't remember where, um, but I was talking to domestic violence experts who say that these

00:53:33.700 convenient features are being weaponized in kind of abusive relationships and, uh, women 1.00

00:53:40.120 it was, it was only women I talked to were, you know, separating from husbands and finding

00:53:46.440 that their husbands were tracking where they were going by firing up the car app and looking

00:53:51.700 at where the, the car was even harassing them, you know, by, uh, making the horn honk and making

00:53:57.600 the lights turn on, making the car start in the middle of the night in their garage. Um, and they

00:54:03.460 would contact the car manufacturer and say, Hey, like, stop giving my husband, my ex-husband

00:54:08.540 access to the car. Um, and the car manufacturers just were not able to help them. They said, because

00:54:16.140 the, you know, the car was also in the husband's name or maybe only in the husband's name,

00:54:20.680 even though the woman had a protective order, um, or had been awarded the car during divorce 0.64

00:54:26.800 proceedings. It's amazing when you look around and I'm going to get to the book and what you

00:54:31.520 revealed about this company, what they're making their product, but it is amazing when you look

00:54:35.620 around you and realize how, how much of your privacy you've already sacrificed to live in the

00:54:41.920 modern world. You know, we know, uh, that Facebook and the social media companies are tracking

00:54:47.500 everything about us. And even now, like when you try to opt out of cookies or anything like that,

00:54:51.700 it's so hard. They make you jump through so many things and your email address gets sold

00:54:56.300 to so many companies. And every day you get a new email from a new, you didn't ask for,

00:55:00.560 and then to unsubscribe, you know, like they want you to enter your email to unsubscribe.

00:55:04.760 You're like, wait a minute. Is this a dummy account? I'm like, what am I, who am I doing a

00:55:07.980 relationship with now? There's just, I complained on the show a couple months ago about,

00:55:11.780 I was trying to buy a coat in Chicago. And the woman was like, what's your email address? I'm

00:55:17.180 like, why do you need to know that? Just give me my, here's my credit card. It works. Give me that

00:55:21.920 and give me the receipt. Nope. Need your email address. What we had an argument, you know,

00:55:27.060 just at every turn, even we have life, life 360 on our phones. Right. So like you can see your kids

00:55:33.700 now that a couple, two of my kids have phones. Well, Doug and I went on it. Okay, fine. They can see

00:55:39.400 where I am on life 360. Did you know, if you press something on life 360, you can go back and see

00:55:43.340 every single spot you've visited over the last 30 days, at least it's all right there. Like your

00:55:50.360 entire life. It's very disconcerting. The amount of privacy we've already sacrificed.

00:55:57.440 Yeah. I mean, I think there's a lot of benefits, right. That have come from the way that we live

00:56:01.840 today. The fact that with our, you know, smartphones, you can land anywhere in the world and you can call

00:56:07.720 an Uber, you know, you can figure out which restaurants to eat at. Uh, technology has

00:56:12.720 benefited us in many ways, but increasingly there's this kind of constant, you know, background data

00:56:18.420 collection, and it's not always being way used in ways that benefit us. You know, there's these apps

00:56:24.020 on your phones. They have third party, you know, ad networks that are keeping track of where you're

00:56:30.880 going and creating that same kind of list of places you've been that you've seen created by life

00:56:36.420 360 in an app that you have chosen to use. And so I, I, that's what I kind of try to track in my

00:56:42.500 journalism is, you know, what is happening? You know, where, how is the data collect being collected?

00:56:49.120 Who is using it? And when is it being used in ways that really harm you? Um, because that's what I

00:56:55.140 get concerned about is, you know, what's the harm here? Um, how is this coming back to haunt people and

00:57:00.780 how can we prevent those kinds of uses of the technology? So that's the perfect setup for

00:57:07.740 Clearview AI, this company that you found out about and wrote an article about, wrote a book about,

00:57:15.400 and really they've given you a lot of access. So they tried to prevent it at first, but ultimately

00:57:21.040 they submitted because they realized it's not great to not cooperate with the New York times when

00:57:25.580 they're doing an in-depth piece on you. Um, and this company is emblematic of everything we just

00:57:32.820 discussed. They're doing some stuff that is great that most people would say, right on, go get them.

00:57:39.420 We need a lot more just like this, but this has the potential to, and is most likely going to veer

00:57:46.140 into a lane that many of us would find very disturbing. So let's start with, uh, your initial

00:57:53.440 encounter with this company and what kind of turned you on to them and their initial stiff

00:57:59.200 arming of you. Yeah. So it started for me in the fall of 2019. I had just become a reporter at the

00:58:06.120 New York times and I got a tip from a source, somebody I knew from the privacy security world

00:58:11.820 who had been doing public records requests to police departments about what facial recognition tools they

00:58:17.720 were using. And he'd gotten this 26 page PDF back from the Atlanta police department. Um, and it

00:58:25.640 included a legal memo written by Paul Clement, a very high profile lawyer now in private practice,

00:58:31.880 but used to be solicitor general for George W. Bush. Exactly. Uh, and he was describing this tool

00:58:39.960 called clear view, how it had, um, I think, uh, billions of photos at that point that had been

00:58:47.840 scraped from the internet, you know, without anyone's consent to build this facial recognition tool

00:58:52.780 where you could take a photo of somebody, a stranger, upload it to the app, and it would return all the

00:58:59.340 other places on the internet where their photo appeared revealing, you know, their name, their social

00:59:04.420 media profiles, um, maybe details about their life, maybe photos they didn't even know were on the

00:59:09.500 internet. He said he had tested it with, you know, uh, lawyers at his firm. It were, it returned very

00:59:14.880 fast and accurate results. Um, and, you know, it had scraped Facebook, Instagram, Venmo, LinkedIn,

00:59:21.920 you know, basically all your favorite social media sites, as well as kind of the wider web.

00:59:25.720 And he had written this legal memo for police departments who might be interested in using it

00:59:31.020 to reassure them that they could use the app, um, without violating any state or federal privacy laws.

00:59:38.480 And I am reading this and I am just astounded. I mean, I've been, I've been covering privacy at

00:59:44.060 that point for more than 10 years. And I had never heard of the, the kind of technology that could do

00:59:49.920 this. And it was being offered by this company I had never heard of before called Clearview AI.

00:59:55.860 And the more I started looking into them, the stranger it got.

00:59:59.400 So just as a, as an overarching theme, they're using what you refer to as one's face print.

01:00:09.100 People are familiar with fingerprints and generally would be reluctant to place their fingerprints

01:00:14.620 online as a record associated with them. You know, you wouldn't want that out there.

01:00:20.360 They're familiar with an iris scan also seems very intrusive,

01:00:24.260 but a face print is also existent on every person. And while yes, your face, it can be seen in various

01:00:33.740 photos. Your face print would be much more widely and easily detected by this technology.

01:00:40.200 And it will collect photos of you that you didn't even know existed. Half, half photos,

01:00:46.300 three quarter photos. You're in the background on something, not even posing.

01:00:49.240 It's extremely sophisticated and good at what it does. And you make the point in the book that

01:00:55.820 the people who put this company together, they're not some geniuses that this has been considered

01:01:02.020 and rejected by all the big, basically tech companies who are already out there collecting

01:01:08.100 our data. But this was a bridge too far for all of them. Yeah. I mean, when I first started looking

01:01:14.180 into Clearview AI, there was very little out there about them. They've kind of taken pains to,

01:01:19.240 hide who was behind the company, which was ironic given they were putting all this information out

01:01:24.700 there about all of us. I reached out to them. I reached out to Paul Clement. I reached out to

01:01:29.680 anyone I could find kind of attached to the company and no one would respond to me. So I thought, well,

01:01:35.740 maybe I can, I can, I even actually had an address on their website and it was only a couple blocks

01:01:41.300 away from the New York times office in Manhattan. And I walked over there and discovered that there was

01:01:46.600 no such address. I was kind of looking for it. I compare it in the book to Harry Potter because

01:01:50.360 I was like looking for a platform that wasn't there. So they were very secretive when I first

01:01:54.620 discovered them. And so I went to police officers who I thought had used the app based on it kind of

01:01:59.860 showing up, um, on, on budgets or because they were appearing in these public records requests.

01:02:06.420 And I ended up talking to a, uh, financial crimes detective in Gainesville, Florida named Nick

01:02:12.840 Ferrara. And he was telling me, wow, I, I love Clearview AI. I would be their spokesman if I could.

01:02:19.820 The tool works so well. It's way more powerful than anything I've ever used before. Um, he said that

01:02:26.780 he had a, a pile of, um, unsolved cases on his desk. He'd run them through the state recognition,

01:02:33.340 facial recognition system in Florida, not gotten any matches. And so, um, run them through Clearview

01:02:39.300 AI. And he said, I got match after match after match. He said, it was really incredible. And so

01:02:43.840 I said, well, this sounds great. I'd love to see how it works. And he said, well, send me your photo

01:02:47.920 and then I'll screenshot the results for you and send them your way. So I sent them, I sent him my

01:02:53.500 photo and then he goes to me and he stopped responding to any of my messages. This basically

01:02:59.140 happened again with another officer though, before he stopped talking to me, he did run my photo and

01:03:04.820 he said, I didn't have any results, which we both thought was very strange because I have a lot of

01:03:08.900 photos on the internet. Eventually I'd find out that Clearview AI had, uh, put an alert on my face

01:03:15.280 so that they were being notified when I was being searched for. They were reaching out to these

01:03:20.380 officers and saying, you know, uh, don't talk to her. You're violating the terms of our app by running

01:03:26.160 her picture. And so this was alarming to me because it showed me that this company could,

01:03:31.900 you know, see who law enforcement was searching for, could control whether they could be found.

01:03:37.280 And it just shows the power of facial recognition technology, this idea that you can be searched for,

01:03:42.740 there can be an alert on your face and people might be reacting to you and you might not even realize

01:03:49.640 it. And we kind of have seen that play out at Madison square garden where James Dolan,

01:03:54.920 the owner of Madison square garden decided to start looking for, um, he decided he wanted to

01:04:00.980 ban certain people from coming into his venues, lawyers who worked on, who had sued, who had sued,

01:04:08.200 uh, you know, Madison square garden or any of their other companies. And so they went to their law firm

01:04:14.160 websites and scrape their photos, you know, from their own biographies on their websites and create

01:04:19.760 this big ban list. And when those lawyers tried to go to Madison square garden, um, to see a Knicks game

01:04:25.580 or the Rockettes at radio city music hall or Mariah Carey concert, they would be stopped at the door

01:04:31.860 and turned away and told, you're not welcome here until your firm, you know, drops this suit or settles

01:04:37.980 this suit, um, where the suit comes to an end. And so it just shows you how powerful this technology

01:04:42.820 could be in the hands of corporations, for example, companies who want to know who you are the minute

01:04:49.460 you're walking through the door. Yes. It's, it's like, I mean, you think about, I like you could go

01:04:56.360 either way with it, but you know, after January 6th, all the proposed bans on anybody associated,

01:05:02.560 not just with the, the protesters, the rioters, but with team Trump, like anybody with the last name,

01:05:07.560 Trump, anybody who's, who's on the Trump team or the administration, all banned publishers were

01:05:12.940 saying no books by you. Imagine that expanded to, you can't come in here for coffee. You can't come

01:05:19.640 in here to watch a Knicks game. You can't like, it could go so far beyond that. And at least, at least,

01:05:25.020 um, in the example I just raised, it would require a name and the person would have had to have asked for

01:05:32.900 something and submitted a record. This is who I am. And this is what I'm at. It's not just like

01:05:37.220 walking in for a cup of coffee, like doing the things we do for a, to, to exist. And just your

01:05:43.520 mere face, your face print tells them so much about you. It's like making yourself instantly famous

01:05:50.600 basically. And you don't want to be famous. You want to be a private civilian. I do always feel

01:05:56.360 funny talking about this topic with somebody like you who, you know, the ship has sailed for you.

01:06:02.740 Most places where you go around, they know that you're Megan Kelly, but the rest of us still

01:06:07.080 have a certain degree of anonymity as we move through the world. And I do, my big fear with

01:06:13.440 facial recognition technology is that it brings an end to that. And that it takes all the information

01:06:18.860 that over the last couple of decades that we've been online, that we've been putting information

01:06:24.460 out there about ourselves, that it's been collected without our knowing it. There's all these dossiers

01:06:29.620 now that basically exist for all of us, that that could just be attached to us in the real world,

01:06:35.500 that our face becomes the token to, to be able to access all of this information about you

01:06:42.520 all of the time. And it can be used to judge you in ways. Yeah. I mean, whether you're a liberal or

01:06:48.480 you're conservative or you're, you know, rich or you're poor or who you work for.

01:06:55.940 These guys who started this firm, they're more right-leaning. They, I guess if you had to put

01:07:01.960 money on who they would want to use it against, if they really went nefarious, it would be against

01:07:06.720 liberals because they're like, one of the big investors is Peter Thiel, who's a conservative

01:07:11.020 investor. And the other guys, as I understand, they, they met at the Trump convention in 2016,

01:07:16.520 the Republican National Committee, like these are more right-leaners.

01:07:18.860 Yeah. They met, they met before the Trump convention, but, uh, apparently the kind of

01:07:23.980 idea for Clearview first came about when they were at the Trump convention, they were thinking,

01:07:29.200 wow, there's all these strangers here. Um, you don't know who anyone is. Wouldn't it be nice if

01:07:34.120 you had some kind of tool, an app on your phone where you just kind of pointed it at somebody

01:07:38.580 and it told you, give you an indication, you know, who this is. Are they a friend? Are they a foe?

01:07:43.760 Are they somebody I should get to know? So even in the beginning of this company,

01:07:47.820 they were thinking about this kind of this, this use and this kind of more polarized world,

01:07:53.540 you know, who's on my side, who's not on my side.

01:07:57.680 Yeah. I mean, it's very, it's, it's very scary. It could be used against everyone,

01:08:02.140 depending on whose hands it would fall into. And let's not kid ourselves. That's the concern.

01:08:06.940 It's that this Clearview AI will not be the only company using it. It's going to be widespread.

01:08:12.840 And there's a real question about whether it can be stopped at all. This really could be our

01:08:16.840 future in 10 years. Everyone might have it. And truly privacy may be a thing of the past.

01:08:21.820 One of, I think one of the executives said that to you, like it's, it's over cashmere. Like there

01:08:27.120 is no privacy that those days are over. Yeah. I mean, one of that was one of the investors

01:08:32.680 in Clearview AI. I said, when he, when I first started tracking down the company and I went to

01:08:38.820 his door and he ended up letting me in in part because I was quite pregnant at the time. And I said,

01:08:43.420 oh, you know, I've come all this way, offered me water. We sat down and he was talking about how

01:08:48.080 excited he was about Clearview AI as an investment that he believes he hoped in the future that the

01:08:54.720 same way you Google someone's name, you would Clearview someone's face. And he said, you know,

01:08:59.960 right now, Clearview is just selling it to police departments. But his hope was that they would start

01:09:05.000 selling it to everybody, that it would be an app on everybody's smartphone. And I said, you know,

01:09:10.740 that seems kind of alarming to me, this idea that we wouldn't have the right to be anonymous anymore.

01:09:16.740 And he said, yeah, I realize it's dystopian, but I just think that's the nature of technology that

01:09:21.060 it's, you know, it's eroding privacy and there's nothing we can do about it. And, you know, I think

01:09:26.240 tech companies are selling these kinds of tools. That's what they want people to believe, you know,

01:09:30.380 give up. There's no hope for your privacy, just accept this. But I think that we still can protect it.

01:09:36.780 And there are examples in the past of times that we've done that. So I remain optimistic that we

01:09:42.000 might still preserve a bit of our anonymity. Well, and you've got the one state of Illinois,

01:09:46.660 which is like the one state that's done something to protect its citizens from this kind of technology.

01:09:51.500 We can talk about that in a minute, but let's just spend a minute on. So finally they did,

01:09:55.840 you were pregnant and you, you did what a good reporter will do, which is somehow got yourself in

01:10:00.240 the door. And eventually they started talking to you. And, um, there's a very interesting guy behind

01:10:07.080 the technology. What's his name? Tom. Wanton Tat. Wanton Tat. Okay. Who is Wanton Tat?

01:10:16.320 Wanton Tat is the kind of technical mastermind behind Clearview AI. He grew up in Australia,

01:10:22.540 was always really interested in computers, technology. At 19 years old, he drops out of college

01:10:29.700 in Canberra, Australia, and he moves halfway around the world to San Francisco, um, kind of chasing the

01:10:37.020 tech dream. And he at first was creating Facebook quizzes and iPhone games, um, and not really having

01:10:45.440 a lot of success. And eventually he ends up moving to New York, kind of falling in with this more

01:10:50.980 right-leaning crowd. And then he goes and creates this incredibly powerful technology, Clearview AI.

01:11:00.060 And I kind of, you know, at first the company did not want to talk to me. Eventually they came around

01:11:04.300 and I've actually spent a lot of time with Wanton Tat, really interesting, um, character. And I asked

01:11:10.180 him, you know, how did you go from building iPhone games to this incredibly powerful, you know,

01:11:16.680 potentially world-changing technology. And he said, I was standing on the shoulders of giants.

01:11:22.620 He said at the beginning, he just went on to Twitter and followed machine learning experts.

01:11:27.840 He went on to GitHub, this kind of place where, uh, computer scientists share code. And he looked

01:11:32.940 up facial recognition. And we both started laughing when he's telling me this. He said,

01:11:37.980 I realize it sounds like I Googled a flying car and then I built one, but this kind of Clearview's

01:11:44.880 journey, Wanton Tat's journey really, um, reveals what has happened in technology, which is that

01:11:50.660 there has been a lot of sharing and open sourcing, um, of these AI tools. And it allowed him and kind

01:11:57.780 of like a ragtag band of people to create a really, really powerful technology. And at first I thought

01:12:04.580 that Clearview, um, had had this kind of technological breakthrough to create this tool. But in my reporting

01:12:10.940 for the book, I discovered that as you were saying before, Facebook and Google had both created

01:12:16.820 technology like this internally and decided not to release it because they thought it was too

01:12:21.920 dangerous. And so what Clearview had done was more of an ethical breakthrough than a technological one.

01:12:28.720 Ethical breakthrough. That's a nice way of putting it. A disregard perhaps, but again, I'm not against

01:12:34.280 the company. I love what they're doing in law enforcement. The scary thing is when it goes beyond that.

01:12:38.660 So let's spend a minute on what they are doing for law enforcement, because when I get to the

01:12:42.720 stories about them nailing pedophiles, I'm cheering on my feet and they are, they are using this and

01:12:50.360 have, have found pedophiles through some incredible detections of, as I was kind of saying, not even

01:12:57.700 people who are front and center in various photographs. Yeah. I talked to a department of

01:13:02.960 home and security agent, um, who, this was actually the first time that the department of home and

01:13:07.700 security used Clearview, he had this case where, um, they had, uh, come across an, an image of abuse

01:13:15.580 in the, in a, in a Yahoo account of somebody who was based outside of the country. And he had the

01:13:23.520 photos and he's, he's, he's thinking, what do I do? How do I solve this case? Um, and so he sent a,

01:13:32.560 he, um, he ended up running the, the, he did a screenshot of the abuser space and he sent it to

01:13:39.040 other child crime investigators. And he said, Hey, does anyone else recognize this person? Have you

01:13:43.400 seen them in other photos? Um, they knew it was somewhere in the U S because of, uh, an electrical

01:13:49.140 outlet. They could see it was a U S outlet. So they knew it was somewhere in the United States.

01:13:52.440 And there was another agent who had access to Clearview at that time. And so she ran the photo

01:13:58.200 and sent him one of the results, which was an Instagram photo. And when he first looked at it,

01:14:04.140 he didn't see the abuser's face. And he said, Oh, he's, he's not here. And the other agent told him,

01:14:10.200 look in the background. And in the background of this Instagram photo is this guy standing at a booth

01:14:16.160 and that wound up being the person. And so this investigator followed these breadcrumbs,

01:14:22.140 figured out where he worked, figured out who he was, figured out who, where he lived in Las Vegas,

01:14:26.620 and they wound up arresting him. And he's in jail now, you know, getting this child out of his, um,

01:14:33.800 his access. And the department of Homeland security, ICE, it was the unit he was part of. They said,

01:14:39.860 we, we have to have this tool. And they wound up signing up for it. And so department of Homeland

01:14:44.240 security now does have this contract with Clearview that they've had for a few years now.

01:14:48.880 And he said, you know, we just never would have found that guy without this technology. So you

01:14:53.360 can see why this is so appealing to law enforcement. You know, when you only have a face to go on,

01:14:59.100 this is something that could help you solve that case. So this is like a guy who wasn't necessarily

01:15:04.460 even posing for not the illegal photo, but the other photo just happened to be caught in the

01:15:10.940 background of someone's photo that's available on the internet or on Facebook or in someplace where

01:15:15.760 Clearview searches. And he made the mistake of having a picture of him committing this disgusting

01:15:21.740 sin and crime in a picture that was on his email or however law enforcement got its hands on it to

01:15:26.620 begin with. And they matched it just from the back, him being in the background of a, I mean, that's

01:15:32.820 amazing that what you point out in the book, and it kind of got me thinking about it though,

01:15:38.260 is on the privacy front there, even with law enforcement, they're doing something that is,

01:15:45.360 you know, a little disconcerting, which is you and I are potentially in that photo lineup,

01:15:53.000 right? Like our face print, maybe not us because we're females, but I'm just in general,

01:15:58.020 maybe all American men were in that photo lineup without really consenting to be in the photo lineup

01:16:06.540 with their quote face print. Right. I mean, Clearview AI says that they now have 40 billion

01:16:13.060 photos in their databank. And so I know, I know for a fact that you and I are in that, you know,

01:16:20.640 in that database. And so every time somebody does run a Clearview search, they are searching all of

01:16:26.580 those photos. They are searching through all of our faces essentially for a match. And so that,

01:16:32.440 that worries some constitutional experts, they say, Hey, you know, I think if the United States

01:16:37.220 government built this, you know, we would probably be fighting back. This seems almost

01:16:42.680 unconstitutional, you know, that we're all part of every search that's being run through this tool

01:16:47.100 and, and it can go wrong. You know, there have been a handful of cases now where people have been

01:16:53.700 arrested for the crime of looking like someone else, because we're not all unique snowflakes. Some of us

01:16:59.440 look similar to other people. And so there is this concern that if you act on the facial recognition

01:17:05.960 search alone, you might end up arresting the wrong person beyond that bigger. I would imagine they,

01:17:11.300 they require more than that, right? It can't just, it can't just be only Clearview recognition.

01:17:17.880 So hopefully, ideally, if the police are doing it right, it won't just be Clearview identification.

01:17:22.860 But I have written about cases where they have arrested people based on not much more evidence

01:17:29.220 than that. A, a guy who was arrested in Atlanta for shoplifting, essentially purses in and around

01:17:39.280 New Orleans. And he was arrested. The police, he's like, why am I being arrested? He got pulled over.

01:17:45.120 Why am I being arrested? And they said, oh, for larceny in, in Jefferson Parish. He said,

01:17:51.580 where's Jefferson Parish? They said, it's in Louisiana. He said, I've never been to Louisiana.

01:17:55.780 But he ended up getting arrested and spending a week in jail before they realized they had the

01:18:02.300 wrong person. He did look a lot like the offender and they had done a Clearview search. He'd come up

01:18:09.340 as a match. And when the police looked at his Facebook profile, they saw that he had a lot of

01:18:13.740 friends in New Orleans. So based on very little information, I mean, not, not enough, no one

01:18:19.340 should be arrested based on that. He had been arrested. And so sometimes these things do go

01:18:23.680 wrong because of confirmation bias, automation bias, where the police just rely too heavily on this

01:18:30.360 high-tech tool, which does seem so amazing and often is so amazing.

01:18:35.360 I, like, how accurate is it then? Because, you know, I've told the audience before, you know,

01:18:40.560 of all the weird conspiracy theories that are out there. And there's, there are plenty of weird

01:18:44.520 ones. One of the weird ones that's out there is that I am Nicole Brown Simpson, like either

01:18:52.200 reincarnated or she never died. I'm not exactly sure how it works, but somehow we're the same person.

01:18:58.160 So truly, like, what about two people who look very similar in certain of their features?

01:19:04.140 Is Clearview generally very good at distinguishing between two similar looking people or not so good?

01:19:12.960 Well, so there's, um, there is a federal lab called the National Institute for Standards and

01:19:18.840 Technology or NIST that tests all the facial recognition algorithms or runs these tests periodically.

01:19:24.320 And a lot of these algorithms now are incredibly accurate, like they're 99% accurate. But it does

01:19:31.520 depend on, you know, the quality of the image that you run. Is it a grainy, you know, still from a

01:19:38.460 surveillance tape? Uh, it might not work as well under those circumstances. Um, anecdotally, you know,

01:19:45.180 I have seen it work quite well when Juan Tontat has run Clearview searches on my own face. There are no

01:19:52.000 doppelgangers who come back. It is me. It's photos that I've put out there. It's me at concerts in

01:19:59.800 2005 in the background of other people's photos. Um, yes, there was a photo of me in the background

01:20:08.360 of someone else's, um, it was, well, there was a woman in the background of someone's photo walking

01:20:12.680 by. And at first I didn't think it was me until I recognized my coat that I had bought at a vintage

01:20:17.720 store in Tokyo. It was so unique. It had to be me. I mean, it is, uh, Juan Tontat said it's a time

01:20:23.880 machine. I invented it and it really is. It's, I mean, it was, it was incredible. I was able to

01:20:28.080 connect my face to me, you know, in profile in 2003, four. I mean, it's, it's, it's kind of

01:20:35.120 astounding how well it can work under the right conditions. Oh my gosh. All right. So that's one

01:20:39.700 thing. I mean, maybe people out there are feeling less safe than I am knowing that it's in the hands

01:20:46.240 of law enforcement right now across the country. Many law enforcement divisions already have this on

01:20:50.820 you. Um, I'm still, my D my default is generally to be trustworthy of law enforcement. I have a cop

01:20:57.000 in the family. I don't know. That's, but I feel very less, very much less secure when it comes to

01:21:02.240 private citizens having this stuff because it's not even just like Megan Kelly. Okay. Anybody can

01:21:08.220 Google that and see cashmere hell. What, you know, what comes up about cashmere? It's so much more.

01:21:13.680 Like you say, it's like private photos that you did. You had no idea. Maybe whatever,

01:21:17.980 maybe you went to some March, you know, at one point or who knows what you did or when you were

01:21:23.140 a stupid kid that now private citizens or your enemies know about and could use against you. 0.94

01:21:30.140 Or like the thing I worry about is the freaks out there. People who are crazy, who just want

01:21:34.780 information on you that you would never voluntarily give. Now they've got it. And maybe even they have

01:21:41.440 photos like, like, for example, in my case, I don't publish any of my addresses for very obvious

01:21:47.140 reasons. But what if my neighbor was out playing football with their kids on the front lawn? And

01:21:53.080 I got caught in the background of one, you know, now am I going to have to run out there and be

01:21:56.640 like, give me that photo, delete that photograph, right? That you can't do that. But I could be there

01:22:02.740 and I could be in front of my house and now it's identifiable, like all this stuff. So let me take a

01:22:08.220 quick break and we're going to pick it up there and talk about that risk and the glasses, which is what

01:22:13.860 got my attention to this whole case to begin with. More with Cashmere Hill right after this.

01:22:19.180 I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly show on Sirius XM. It's your home for open, honest and

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01:23:23.040 Now, I've been thinking about this, including yesterday we had on Nancy Grace and we were

01:23:27.740 talking about the Brian Kohlberger Idaho murders case. And I want to play you this clip because it

01:23:33.840 relates to some of this technology potentially, where she was stating here her suspicions. She made

01:23:40.440 it clear. This is her view about Brian Kohlberger and who he is and then offered some facts about

01:23:47.920 what we know about some of his past interactions with women. Listen to this soundbite. And you know,

01:23:53.280 another thing which is not going to get brought up at trial, I guarantee you, because the defense is

01:23:57.740 going to argue it's too incendiary and prejudicial, blah, blah, blah. And so the theory that Brian Kohlberger

01:24:04.080 is in fact an incel, involuntary, celibate, and hates women because he can't be with women. And

01:24:11.140 remember, he was also banned from a bar because he would go up to women and say things like,

01:24:17.140 what's your home address? I would run for the heels as if I had seen a monster. If some creepy dude

01:24:22.360 comes up to me at a bar and says, what's your home address, lady? Uh-uh. N-O. He had to get thrown out of 1.00

01:24:27.560 that bar. So if that happens to you in today's day and age, and you're not a public figure, right?

01:24:33.260 Like I am, you're usually fine because the person doesn't know your name. They can't Google you.

01:24:40.200 And it's, you do have to spend some money and make some effort to find somebody's address,

01:24:45.440 even a private citizen today, but it's knowable. I mean, let me tell you people,

01:24:48.960 if you've gone down to the DMV and given them your real address, like most people do when they go to the

01:24:53.520 DMV because you registered a vote and all that, it's findable on the internet for $40. It's very

01:24:58.880 easy to find somebody's home address. Very easy. So it's creepy to think that, you know, now if,

01:25:06.120 if this technology is available to private citizens, that bar encounter takes on a whole new meaning

01:25:12.460 because he'll know who you are like that. He'll have your name. He'll have those, he'll know you went

01:25:19.820 to the concert, you know, where you were wearing the jacket from Tokyo, you know, 20 years ago,

01:25:24.480 he will have so much information about you instantly. And that brings me to the glasses

01:25:30.440 because it's not going to require a big mainframe computer for him to get that info about you

01:25:36.620 under this Clearview technology. Yeah. I mean, so Clearview is working on these augmented reality

01:25:44.860 glasses. Uh, they had funding from the air force to develop them. They would be used at military

01:25:49.380 bases so that soldiers can theoretically identify threats from very far away. Um, but yeah, I mean,

01:25:56.320 you can imagine this world in which maybe we do, I have all start wearing augmented reality glasses and

01:26:02.560 with tools like Clearview, you might be able to be able to identify the people around you in real time.

01:26:08.440 Um, I hate to tell you, we are already in that world to a certain extent. Clearview has limited its tool

01:26:15.420 to law enforcement and the government, but there are other copycat companies that have created

01:26:21.860 the same kind of technology as Clearview. Their databases aren't as big, but they're on the

01:26:27.760 internet right now. Sites that you can use for free sites that you can pay a subscription to

01:26:32.760 where you upload a photo of somebody and it will show you other places on the internet where their

01:26:38.440 photo appears, where you might be able to find out what their name is, you know, where they live.

01:26:42.980 So this is, this is not a future scenario. This could happen to you in a bar, you know, tonight,

01:26:49.580 um, where somebody walks up to you, they are creepy. You never want to see them again. They

01:26:56.320 surreptitiously take your photo and all of a sudden they could know who you are. I mean, I do think that

01:27:02.620 that is a very scary scenario. On the other side, maybe you're talking to somebody who seems great.

01:27:09.240 They're saying all the right things. You take their photo, you look them up and all of a sudden

01:27:14.040 you see that they have this, uh, criminal record or they have this online reputation that you find

01:27:21.280 really disturbing and you want to walk away. So it's like, you know, technology in so many ways,

01:27:26.160 it's just this double edged sword. There's positive use cases and negative use cases. And it really is

01:27:31.540 about who's using it and how they're using it. Oh my gosh. I mean, I'll tell you this,

01:27:36.580 the one thing you should not put your home address on your driver's license or give it to the

01:27:41.300 government, get a PO box, just get a PO box. It's a bigger pain in the ass to get your mail,

01:27:46.320 but it will put a layer between you. And I mean, look, it's, it's, I've done it because I'm well

01:27:52.420 known, but it's, this is everyone's well known. Now there, there are no more civilians with technology

01:27:59.000 like this out there. So take those steps before it becomes a problem in your life. I mean, you have to do

01:28:04.920 it preemptively before the weird guys trying to find you. It's just so dark. I don't know this.

01:28:11.620 It's, I know you write about this in the book, but it's very much like minority report where like

01:28:15.680 everything about us is out there. Like there's that scene in minority report where Tom Cruise is

01:28:20.160 walking through the, like the shopping mall and all the ads are personalized to him because they

01:28:25.700 can see, I don't know if it's his iris or his face, but like this is the future's here and we cut it

01:28:30.700 here. It is just to remind those who haven't seen the movie in a while.

01:28:34.400 A road diverges in the desert. Lexus. The road you're on, John Anderton, is the one less

01:28:42.320 traveling. Make sure nightfall dies.

01:28:46.280 Good evening. You can move the old-fashioned way.

01:28:51.160 So I see that cash rear. And the only thing I think is how do I opt out? How do I say, I don't want them

01:29:14.780 doing that to me. And I don't like, I want to opt out somehow. So can we opt out?

01:29:19.660 Yeah, it's funny. I think that we see that movie that way and that people working in technology see

01:29:25.720 that as what they aspire to do. Hashtag goals.

01:29:31.920 So there are ways to opt out. It depends on where you live. Basically your face has different privacy

01:29:39.240 protections depending on your address. So Clearview AI, for example, will allow you to get out of their

01:29:48.320 database if you live in a state that has a privacy law that requires them to delete information about

01:29:54.960 you. And there's just a handful of states that have those privacy laws. California, Colorado,

01:30:00.820 Connecticut are examples. If you live in those places, you can go to Clearview AI's website and

01:30:07.480 you'll have to upload a photo of yourself. And you'll be able to see your report, like see what's

01:30:14.980 in your database, what's in their database about you. And then you can tell them to delete you.

01:30:21.580 And same goes, I think for Illinois, we talked about how Illinois has this law. It's a very

01:30:27.560 unique law to protect people. But yeah, if you live in Illinois, it says that companies can't

01:30:33.980 collect your face print, collect your biometric information without your consent, or they have

01:30:39.640 to pay a very hefty fine. So we talked earlier about Madison Square Garden and how they ban lawyers.

01:30:46.440 The company that owns Madison Square Garden is doing that at all their venues in New York City,

01:30:51.640 but not at their theater in Chicago, because they would need lawyers consent to have their face prints

01:30:58.760 and ban them from coming in. And yeah, and some of these other tools I talked about that are on

01:31:04.100 the internet right now where you can do this. A lot of them have opt-outs, but again, you have to

01:31:10.780 submit your face, kind of tell them who you are in order to get out of their databases, which not

01:31:15.400 everyone is comfortable doing if you care about privacy. Right. It's like I was saying, when they

01:31:20.860 make you enter your email to unsubscribe and you're like, well, wait a minute, you emailed me to begin

01:31:26.200 with. So you have my email. So what is this? What am I being asked to enter into here? It feels like

01:31:31.440 our relationship is getting stronger, not weaker, which is my goal. Okay. So I like that. I like

01:31:38.540 the potential of that. I know that my friend and a man I deeply admired, admire currently, argued this

01:31:46.500 case on behalf of Clearview, Floyd Abrams of New York Times versus Sullivan. He's the father of Dan

01:31:54.720 Abrams, who's also a friend. Floyd's 84 years old. He's a giant in legal circles. So Clearview

01:32:01.200 hired him to go in and argue against the ACLU, which sued them over this. And my pal Floyd,

01:32:07.920 I guess it either he didn't win or it wasn't looking like he was going to win. And what

01:32:12.260 happened? So, yeah, so they hired Floyd Abrams because he is the expert on the First Amendment,

01:32:18.620 which is the, you know, freedom of the press, freedom to information. And Clearview was making

01:32:24.260 this argument that they have a First Amendment right to collect public information that's on the

01:32:31.380 internet and analyze it. And they said they're just like Google, you know, they're just scanning the

01:32:38.040 internet and collecting it and organizing it. And instead of organizing it, you know, by name,

01:32:43.180 they're organizing it by face. And so, yes, Floyd made this argument. And a few of the different

01:32:49.640 lawsuits, there have been quite a few, against Clearview AI, including in Illinois, where the

01:32:54.540 ACLU sued them. And the judge there, it didn't make it to, the case didn't go all the way. It wound

01:33:01.280 up settling. But the judge said, no, the First Amendment is not going to protect Clearview AI.

01:33:07.240 Illinois, the state of Illinois still has the right to say that you're not allowed to do this

01:33:11.180 particular thing with somebody's face print. And so that suit did settle with Clearview agreeing

01:33:18.540 in the future to only sell this database, you know, of billions of photos to law enforcement,

01:33:25.620 to the government. And they said they won't sell it to private entities. They won't sell it to

01:33:29.640 individuals. So the ACLU saw that as quite a win. And Clearview saw it as a win, too, because they said

01:33:35.680 that's what we're already doing. And that's just what we'll continue to do.

01:33:38.320 Hmm. I wonder if they could get like, you know, one of those actresses who's had all that work 1.00

01:33:43.840 done, you like the Melanie Griffith or like the Meg Ryan of like, you know, you've got mail versus

01:33:50.280 the Meg Ryan of today. Would it notice, you know, like, are the criminals going to start getting

01:33:55.380 plastic surgery to get past this? Someone's going to come up with a moisturizing cream that dulls the

01:34:00.580 lens, you know, that Clearview would put on you. I don't, there's going to be some

01:34:04.120 technological advancement, probably to counteract the creep in the bar with the glasses, don't you

01:34:11.920 think? Maybe those 3D plastic masks that you like pull over your head like a mission impossible.

01:34:19.080 It is, it can be, it can be hard to evade facial recognition. I did this experiment with some of my

01:34:26.180 colleagues at the Times on one of these sites that's available to anyone to use, a site called

01:34:31.120 Pym Eyes. And, you know, we uploaded photos where, you know, somebody's face was half covered,

01:34:36.980 like with a COVID mask, their nose, their mouth, and it was still able to recognize them and find

01:34:42.940 photos of them. I mean, it is astounding how powerful facial recognition has gotten. So

01:34:47.360 it can be hard to evade it. It is possible. I talked to one lawyer who managed to evade the ban

01:34:53.060 and go to a Knicks versus Cavs game at Madison Square Garden, even though she was on the list

01:34:59.540 by wearing a baseball cap, glasses, and a COVID mask. That was enough to get through MSG security.

01:35:06.980 The lawyers. All right, we only have like 30 seconds left, but is there anything you want

01:35:10.880 to flag for us that we need to be worried about in addition to all the stuff we've already discussed?

01:35:14.960 I guess just thinking, knowing that this, this power is out there now, just think about the

01:35:22.020 photos that you do put online and whether they need to be public photos or whether you want to

01:35:27.740 make them not be on the internet, or if you do make them private so that these companies, and there's

01:35:33.760 more and more of them out there, aren't there out scraping it and using it in ways that you

01:35:38.440 wouldn't want or didn't expect. You know, it's like yet another reason not to put your kid on the

01:35:43.800 internet. Do not put your kid's face all over the internet. Be careful. You don't know how those

01:35:49.820 photos are going to come back to haunt him or her. What a fascinating discussion. Cashmere Hill,

01:35:55.920 the book is Your Face Belongs to Us. You'll learn a lot. You'll be fascinated. It's a quick,

01:36:01.060 easy read. Thank you so much for writing it. Thank you, Megan. Wow. Okay. I want to tell the audience,

01:36:06.800 we're going to be back on Monday with Maureen Callahan. She's going to come here inside the studio, 0.54

01:36:11.380 and we're going to talk to her about some of the latest shenanigans. The Royals. Did you see the

01:36:17.960 clip that's going around about Madonna? I'm dying to talk to Maureen about this, among other things.

01:36:23.720 And we're also going to have the head of Stop Anti-Semitism here to unveil their anti-Semite of

01:36:29.280 the year. Have a great weekend, everyone, and we'll see you then. Thanks for listening to The

01:36:36.260 Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - January 05, 2024

Dems' ＂Dark Brandon＂ Scare Tactics, And Reality of AI Facial Recognition Tech, with Jesse Kelly and Kashmir Hill ｜ Ep. 696

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