The Megyn Kelly Show - Dems EAT Their Own in California, with Ana Kasparian, and Trump's ＂Softer＂ Deportation Approach, with Gregory Bovino ｜ Ep. 1317

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00:00:56.560 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:08.280 Hey, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Later today,

00:01:12.020 a first-time guest on the show, Gregory Bovino, will be here. We've covered him a lot. And now

00:01:18.300 on the outside, he's able to speak freely about his role in the deportations and border policies

00:01:24.880 of the administration for which he worked. This is going to be a very compelling exchange. He is

00:01:29.760 ready to talk about what he was doing to enforce the border and why he got pushed out and who was

00:01:38.520 like-minded and who isn't. And what is the policy right now as he sees it? He's going to be very

00:01:45.700 frank and we're really looking forward to having him. But we're going to start today with two

00:01:50.020 high-profile races in California, where Spencer Pratt continues to gain ground in the LA

00:01:55.500 mayoral race. And then there's the story that we've been teasing for a couple of days in the

00:01:59.760 governor's race with Katie Porter firing off a shot at her fellow Democrat, Tom Steyer. Go, 0.99

00:02:07.040 Katie. This is the way to channel your rage, sister. You got it. Now you point it at your 1.00

00:02:12.180 opponents and you let loose, not at your lowly staffers, because that makes you look bad.

00:02:17.080 plus a brutal interview moment with the Democratic candidate who is becoming the front runner. We'll

00:02:24.900 tell you who that is. Joining me now for all of this, Anna Kasparian. She is the host and

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00:03:34.000 Anna, welcome back. Great to have you. Thank you for having me. Happy to be here.

00:03:37.480 I've been watching you all over the internet, setting everybody on fire. It's been fun to watch.

00:03:40.880 I love it. I love Piers Morgan and I love watching you on there because you take no guff from

00:03:47.020 anyone and I'm always rooting you on. Thank you. Okay, we got to start with Katie Porter.

00:03:52.440 You and I were on the air when we first dissected her viral videos and it was a very fun segment

00:03:59.780 and I think our audience enjoyed it. Now here she is again and she goes on CNN. She gets

00:04:06.020 cross-examined gently by Dana Bash about some of her low moments. And she hurls out an allegation

00:04:14.880 about where that tape came from, in which she berates the staffer, get the F out of my shot.

00:04:21.200 And it was sort of an odd tape because clearly she wasn't live in the moment because she says, 0.94

00:04:27.280 get the F out of my shot. Then the staffer kind of just talks in a way you wouldn't if they were

00:04:32.400 live on the air saying, no, you said that thing wrong. This is the way you need to say it. And

00:04:36.620 you know, she's still annoyed. So it did suggest that it was being pre-taped with a friendly,

00:04:41.760 some sort of a friendly. And we didn't really know or ask who that was on the other side,

00:04:46.900 but she's offering facts now. What she says are facts. And here is what she said to Dan Abash.

00:04:52.840 He just did an interview with Pod Save America, where he said he was the only candidate

00:04:56.460 who could stand up to corporate interests. He was asked specifically, well, what about

00:05:00.720 katie porter this is what he said she's hostile to special interests but she doesn't have your 0.56

00:05:06.700 money to get ads up right that's a real thing so the question is can someone win and do this

00:05:12.100 that is the actual question john not can someone be good-hearted there are lots of good-hearted

00:05:16.400 people who i would be happy if they won the question is can someone actually do this

00:05:21.060 what's your response to him

00:05:23.660 well given that tom steyer is the person who leaked the video with me and the staffer from

00:05:31.560 five years ago he pretty clearly didn't think that i was he pretty clearly wanted to be governor bad

00:05:37.640 enough to knock me down to do it and i apologize for that video many times because i am confident

00:05:44.380 that is the case i've been told by many people it's a department of energy video it was only

00:05:49.360 held by the Department of Energy and people can follow the trail to who his campaign staffers are

00:05:54.080 and understand what happened there. And the truth is, look, Tom Steyer is a corporate special

00:05:59.860 interest. He's made his billions off being behoove into corporations, making money off

00:06:05.060 fossil fuel, oil, coal. Don't shots fired. So she's blaming Steyer for the release of that video,

00:06:13.480 suggesting it shows he's worried about her. So what does the Steyer campaign do? They issue

00:06:19.200 the following statement, saying, Tom has nothing to do with that video. This is an attempt from

00:06:26.140 Katie Porter to deflect from her past mistakes. Katie Porter only has one person to blame for

00:06:30.600 her standing in the race, and it's herself, which I must tell you is a non-denial denial.

00:06:36.300 Tom has nothing to do with that video could be absolutely true, and yet he may have leaked it.

00:06:42.340 Like, of course he has nothing to do with the actual video. He's not in the video. He didn't

00:06:46.040 touched the video. He wasn't responsible for it leaking from the Department of Energy necessarily,

00:06:49.920 but he might have received it and leaked it. And what most likely happened was it was leaked to a

00:06:56.280 staffer and he could keep his hands clean. And this statement could be factually true in every

00:07:00.940 way. In other words, you would say if you really had nothing to do, you would say neither Tom nor

00:07:06.920 anyone on his team had anything to do with leaking this video. We don't need to leak videos of Katie

00:07:11.180 Porter to make her look bad. She just has to be Katie Porter for that to happen. So I think he 1.00

00:07:15.360 did it. And we did look to see his staff. We could not find evidence that current staffers

00:07:20.320 of his gubernatorial campaign worked at the DOE. However, we did find that a 2025 hire out of one

00:07:25.820 of his companies did indeed come from DOE. There was a Bloomberg article that his galvanized

00:07:34.840 climate solutions company hired Chris Creed, who oversaw investments for the DOE and its loan

00:07:42.360 office, not accusing Chris Creed. We don't know whether he had anything to do with this. However,

00:07:46.460 it is not true that they have no DOE people working for Steyer. In any event, what does

00:07:53.180 all of this tell us about the state of the gubernatorial campaign in California, where

00:07:58.420 the latest polls, I'll tell you, show us something interesting. There has been movement. Xavier Becerra,

00:08:06.480 javier is now in first with 19 that puts him two points above steve hilton who is tied for second

00:08:16.400 now with tom steyer those two guys hilton and steyer have 17 javier has 19 fourth is still

00:08:24.100 the other republican chad bianco at 11 and katie is bringing up the rear at 10 chad bianco is doing

00:08:31.260 better than katie porter that actually blows my mind okay so my honest opinion i am not enamored

00:08:38.760 with any of these candidates i'm i'm not a i'm not a fan because you are sane well i mean honestly

00:08:44.860 if you take the time to watch the gubernatorial debate that's happened already oh my goodness i

00:08:51.020 just there was one particular moderator who in the very beginning i couldn't decide whether i liked 1.00

00:08:57.420 her or hated her because she was actually very aggressive. In the end, I decided, no, no, I love 0.58

00:09:02.380 her. She should be the moderator for every political debate in the country because she really held

00:09:07.060 these candidates feet to the fire and didn't let them get away with simply saying that they're 1.00

00:09:12.300 going to do these amazing pie in the sky policies. She wanted to understand, OK, how are you going to

00:09:17.680 carry out those policies? And I remember Tom Steyer in particular really struggled in answering

00:09:23.380 those questions. I don't remember exactly what the policy was, but there was something he wants

00:09:27.500 to implement if he wins as governor. But what he wants to do has already been struck down by the

00:09:33.040 Supreme Court. So the moderator asked him, how do you propose to do this, knowing that you're

00:09:38.960 going to run into this massive legal hurdle? With Katie Porter, I'm actually shocked at how poorly

00:09:44.000 she's doing, to be honest with you. Chad Bianco had no policy solutions at all. And I'm open-minded

00:09:50.600 to a Republican as long as he actually has well thought out policy proposals. And California

00:09:57.040 honestly needs a little more balance, politically speaking. But he was he was awful in the debate.

00:10:02.860 He hasn't thought through anything. He's just very angry at Democrats and made that very clear.

00:10:07.680 And OK, yeah, we accept. Right. And so but Javier Becerra didn't perform well either and seemed to

00:10:16.200 kind of be stuck in the 2020 era of politics which made me worry because i think california

00:10:22.240 in particular needs to kind of move away from that and start really thinking about the revenue

00:10:26.800 that's coming in through taxes and how much we're hurting ourselves by we are overspending and the

00:10:32.300 reason why we're overspending is because money is going to certain non-profits and certain programs

00:10:37.240 without any real oversight of those programs this is something that the california state auditor

00:10:42.180 has put out many reports on. And so we are in debt. The state of California is in a massive

00:10:49.360 amount of debt. We owe money to the federal government. And so we can't have a clown

00:10:54.360 leading the country. I'm sorry, the state. We need someone who's actually smart, who understands, 0.98

00:11:00.160 yes, we need to take care of Californians, but we also need to increase our tax revenue by making 0.95

00:11:05.160 this a desirable place to do business in. And I just I don't see many good solutions or solutions

00:11:11.240 at all from these candidates, which really worries me. Mm hmm. Go Steve Hilton. He could

00:11:16.160 still do it. If Chad, if he got Chad's 13 percent, that would give him a running chance, at least

00:11:22.320 right now. If you add all the Democrat numbers together, it's an easy Democrat win in the general.

00:11:27.380 But you never know. You never know, because I feel like the more Californians get exposed to Steve,

00:11:31.560 the more they're going to properly fall in love with him. I want to tell you this. So now Becerra

00:11:37.920 is in first place which is just stunning because that's a real come from behind moment for him he

00:11:42.120 was down in the bottom uh not too long ago and so he's i guess you could call the front runner now

00:11:48.180 he sits down for an interview with ktla's annie ramos and look at what happens watch this top five

00:11:55.540 this is the start of our interview with javier brissetta in highland park by the way this is a

00:12:00.460 profile piece this is not a gotcha piece right well look i think we're these questions are fair

00:12:05.500 it's in order to learn about you as a candidate so long as about the profile i don't know how you

00:12:10.640 define profile but i'd like to begin the interview the way i describe profile is you talk about all

00:12:15.560 the things that i've done things i want to do and along with some tough questions but not only tough

00:12:21.600 questions wow no wow disqualified it's great to be a democrat no right it's great to be like no

00:12:30.140 republican would ever sit down with press and be like so of course there's going to be a nice

00:12:34.080 profile of me right with just a couple of hard questions well look to be fair i mean i'll give

00:12:38.560 you two examples on the republican side obviously on a federal level but i hate this behavior

00:12:42.980 regardless of who does it so you know on the republican side we know how trump treats 0.98

00:12:47.120 journalists who ask him questions he doesn't like he just called a journalist stupid this week 0.97

00:12:51.480 because she asked a question about how the cost of the white house ballroom has doubled and then 1.00

00:12:57.040 he just said it doubled inside you're stupid it doubled in size i doubled it in size you're stupid 1.00

00:13:01.940 you're a stupid woman um pete hegseth uh i mean it wasn't reporters in this case but 1.00

00:13:08.240 he's sitting before members of congress to answer questions important questions about what's going 1.00

00:13:13.840 down in iran and he just you know he excoriates them whenever they ask a question he doesn't like

00:13:19.360 and he accuses them of acting in bad faith um in regard to democrats though no you don't get to

00:13:24.580 dictate javier becerra doesn't get to dictate which questions are asked uh in a journalistic

00:13:30.720 interview. We need to we need to see how he answers and handles difficult questions. So

00:13:37.660 across the board, I don't care what your political ideology is. If you are willing to sit down before

00:13:42.760 a reporter and answer questions again, you don't get to dictate what they ask you. You don't get

00:13:47.100 to tell them how they do their jobs. I will say this in his defense, in setting up such an

00:13:54.220 interview, the reporter, the journalistic team will normally pitch to the person what they have

00:13:59.460 in mind. Like I've I've been pitched many times that we want to do a long profile of you. And I

00:14:04.640 can see how you would think, yes, OK, so you're going to do bio. You're going to talk about arc

00:14:08.480 of career as opposed to just an interview where we talk about your policies. If you're a politician,

00:14:14.420 that's not an unusual conversation to happen in setting it up and pitching it and getting it and

00:14:19.500 agreeing to it. But to have the actual candidate sit down and telegraph openly and on cam, I don't

00:14:27.420 want to be asked too many hard questions. I want the puff piece. I have a profile that I was

00:14:32.500 promised. It's pretty extraordinary and suggests the guy's not ready for primetime. Here is a

00:14:39.200 former Biden administration official who seems to feel the same, not about the interview, but about

00:14:44.880 him. Listen to this. This is on CNN, SOT 5B. Whoever is going to be governor will have to

00:14:49.980 stand up to Donald Trump. Can I tell you, after working in Joe Biden's administration, I do not

00:14:56.120 trust, have you ever set up to do that?

00:14:58.480 Can I just say...

00:14:59.620 I don't. I don't trust that he would

00:15:02.120 be able to do that. And that is the feeling

00:15:04.180 in trust that he'll be able to stand up

00:15:06.180 to Trump. I don't think that he'll be able to stand up to

00:15:08.100 Trump and lead. And the reason why...

00:15:09.960 Wait, wait, wait.

00:15:12.880 Before she answers that,

00:15:15.680 can I ask you why?

00:15:17.700 Because when I saw him in the administration,

00:15:20.000 and I think a lot of people did,

00:15:21.400 people understand this,

00:15:23.720 it's he was not effective in governing.

00:15:25.300 And I think that a lot of people in the Biden administration are talking about this because they realize that he was not an effective HHS secretary.

00:15:33.380 And if you ask any cabinet secretary, they would tell you the same thing.

00:15:38.020 Wow. How about that? This makes a lot of sense. OK, so I wasn't familiar with that woman.

00:15:44.340 I've actually been on Abby Phillips's show with her on the panel and she like gave me the stink eye the entire time, but didn't really debate me on anything. 0.77

00:15:54.540 so i couldn't figure out what was going on now i realized she was in the biden administration and i

00:15:58.120 was criticizing the biden administration at the time anyway uh i just i don't i don't know what

00:16:04.400 to make of what she has to say there it seems like she has a favorite that maybe she's looking

00:16:08.920 to promote who knows uh but i just i wasn't impressed personally by his debate performance

00:16:15.160 he served in the biden administration i didn't see anything stand out that was worthy of praise

00:16:20.800 to be honest with you. And I think that we are currently dealing with a political system where

00:16:25.680 these politicians think like this is how it's supposed to work. You know, I rise up, I pay my

00:16:31.200 dues, I start low, and then I work my way to a gubernatorial position in the country without

00:16:36.880 proving a damn thing about my accomplishments. That's a huge problem. No, you're not entitled

00:16:41.500 to that. But it looks like people are going to go for him based on how he's doing in the polling.

00:16:46.060 It's kind of surprising.

00:16:46.820 Like I couldn't tell you what Javier Becerra is proposing to do to make

00:16:51.580 California a better state.

00:16:53.240 And that's a problem.

00:16:54.460 No,

00:16:54.840 he's like vanilla pudding.

00:16:56.760 It's like,

00:16:57.320 that's what I think.

00:16:58.360 It's fine.

00:16:59.540 It's not like exciting.

00:17:01.440 It's not ice cream.

00:17:02.760 It's like,

00:17:03.280 it's just pudding.

00:17:04.140 It's like kind of squishy and kind of just goes down without any effort,

00:17:09.580 but like,

00:17:10.180 it doesn't excite anybody.

00:17:11.480 Right.

00:17:11.940 So we'll see.

00:17:13.100 We'll see what happens to that.

00:17:14.240 But it is interesting to see the knives coming out for him and him feeling defensive.

00:17:19.020 He's not used to being at the pointy end of the spear.

00:17:21.480 But on brand here, as we're talking about Democrat candidates who get a pass or who, you know, the machine gets behind and then they then you look at them and you're like, that's what the machine is pushing on us.

00:17:31.700 That brings me to Jack Schlossberg, who is perhaps better known as JFK's grandson.

00:17:39.600 son. He's the son of Caroline Kennedy, who was the sister of JFK Jr. and the daughter of Jackie and

00:17:46.240 Jack. He is the son of Caroline Kennedy. And he's an absolute idiot. He's 33 years old. He is a total

00:17:55.880 idiot. He went to Harvard and Yale. He's got a law degree and a business degree. And it just, 1.00

00:18:02.020 if there's better proof that those things mean nothing when you've got a family connection in

00:18:07.880 particular, I don't know of it. So he decided to run for a U.S. House seat for the Upper West and

00:18:17.260 East Side of Manhattan, my old hot, where I used to live for many years. And this is because Jerry

00:18:22.300 Nadler said he was retiring. It's a safe Democrat seat. There are, I think I was the last Republican

00:18:28.660 on the Upper West Side, although I lived in a building with a bunch of Orthodox Jewish people

00:18:33.180 who tend to vote Republican.

00:18:34.400 So maybe not the last, but one of the last.

00:18:37.060 And this is the seat he's running for.

00:18:41.360 So the New York Times, Anna,

00:18:43.440 does a pretty lengthy hit piece on him

00:18:46.640 and what a mess he's been in this campaign.

00:18:51.300 And I'll just give you some highlights.

00:18:53.180 They say, okay, he announced his campaign,

00:18:58.180 his aides teed up calls with frenzied media outlets,

00:19:01.080 democratic luminaries and a roster of wealthy donors. They wanted to project that he was a

00:19:06.720 serious candidate ready for what was promised to be a grueling race. But just hours into his day

00:19:10.920 one launch, the candidate abruptly announced a change of plans, according to three people

00:19:15.020 familiar with the events. Forget dialing for dollars. Mr. Schlossberg said he needed a nap.

00:19:22.680 Real. Who hasn't been there? Wow. He then effectively disappeared for the day,

00:19:28.080 keeping his team reeling. And it turns out this is evidently, they write par for the course.

00:19:34.840 They go on to say that he can't keep anybody on staff. They've described an operation so erratic

00:19:40.660 and plagued by turnover that it raises questions about how he might handle himself as a member of

00:19:45.580 Congress. Early on, he would regularly blow off weekly strategy meetings, called for his benefit.

00:19:51.120 He made a habit of disappearing for long stretches with little notice or explanation.

00:19:54.520 he did carve out time to swim or paddleboard in the hudson most days so don't get too attached

00:20:01.220 to josh losberg because he obviously must have contracted some hideous disease no one swims in

00:20:05.740 the hudson don't do that he's pushed boundaries on social media oh that's one way of putting it

00:20:11.180 talking about his jizz forgive me but like okay cocktails with it okay yeah i'm sorry that came

00:20:17.000 out of nowhere he's never held a job like end of story hello never never and they actually

00:20:23.180 they point this out like the the times is ripping him to shreds talking about all the only thing

00:20:28.120 he's accomplished is he worked for vogue as a correspondent for like a couple of freelance

00:20:35.540 articles that went nowhere and then worked for john carrey for four months at the state department

00:20:40.940 doing absolutely nothing and so like that's it he's 33 by this point you should have something

00:20:46.700 Oh, for sure. I mean, 33, you've never held down a job. You think that it's I mean, the fact that he says out loud, I need a nap tells you everything you need to know. I mean, try try telling your boss that. OK, you're going to get no sympathy.

00:21:04.920 Am I starting to like him? Something's happening inside of me. But I got a lot of years on him.

00:21:12.500 Well, you've got to at least appreciate that he's saying the quiet part out loud. I mean,

00:21:17.600 there's so many politicians who think the same things and still do the same things,

00:21:22.100 but get away with it. So I don't know why the New York Times has it out for him,

00:21:26.060 but I'm glad they do because it's important for people to know this.

00:21:28.720 What gives him the entitlement to a House seat when he hasn't been able to prove himself in any place of work?

00:21:36.900 He has never worked for anyone.

00:21:38.940 What makes anyone think he would work for the American people in New York? 1.00

00:21:43.100 Exactly right.

00:21:44.120 And Nancy Pelosi endorsed him.

00:21:46.020 Of course.

00:21:46.360 How dare she? 1.00

00:21:46.880 Of course she does.

00:21:47.240 He's not qualified for this position.

00:21:50.200 He's got the former Ted Kennedy people advising him.

00:21:53.240 He's got Ron Klain, who was Biden's chief of staff for a time, helping him out, advising him.

00:21:59.140 Like he's got all these sort of luminaries within the Democratic Party because he's a Kennedy, although nobody knows that because his last name is Schlossberg because he's, you know, he's the son of a female Kennedy.

00:22:10.780 Here he is. 0.98

00:22:13.060 Apparently he got nobody paid attention to this candidate forum that he participated in because no one gives a shit who represents the Upper East and West Side of Manhattan. 0.97

00:22:19.240 But he did participate in one and the Times went and reported on it. 0.95

00:22:23.240 And he got rather irritated, Anna, when the subject of his lack of any credentials or experience came up.

00:22:30.440 Watch.

00:22:30.800 The last six months, I've run a campaign that has introduced me to thousands of New Yorkers that I've met and gotten them incredibly excited about politics in a time when a lot of people feel very disillusioned.

00:22:41.540 I think some people who know of you are wondering about your sort of your resume and what you've accomplished.

00:22:47.940 And I think perhaps your answer to that question about your top accomplishments citing the campaign might, again, raise flags for people about inexperience.

00:22:55.700 Do you want to say a little bit more about qualifications for Congress?

00:22:59.720 I haven't met any of those people, but I'd love if you introduced me to them.

00:23:02.580 I've been working in politics and in government since Obama ran in 2008, and I went to volunteer on his campaign.

00:23:07.620 I worked at the State Department for Secretary of State John Kerry.

00:23:10.420 I was a volunteer EMT in college.

00:23:12.040 While you may not think that content creation and building a following based on speaking out for what you believe in at a time when others were unwilling, taking on your own family members, traveling across the country to every single swing state, serving as a delegate at the DNC is an experience, I do.

00:23:29.720 I participate in giving the Profile and Courage Award out every single year at the John F. Kennedy Library, and I pass the bar in the top 1% of the country.

00:23:37.740 painful he he was a content creator that's the public service the question was what public

00:23:46.320 service have you had that would recommend you for this job he's a content creator at a time

00:23:50.960 when few wanted to do it well look let me ask you a serious question about this because

00:23:55.680 i've been thinking about this issue for a few years now i feel like we're having a very serious

00:24:04.620 competency problem in the united states in our political class oh yes and agreed what has

00:24:11.200 definitely highlighted this for me yet again is how the war against iran is going because what

00:24:18.540 i'm and it's not about like oh let's put the question of whether or not we should have done

00:24:23.780 what we did away first i can just talk about the two different sides the united states and iran

00:24:28.340 and how both sides are carrying out this war. Iran has been incredibly strategic, incredibly

00:24:35.480 strategic, and they are winning this war as a result of that. And so it's not just Trump. Trump

00:24:41.300 is surrounded by advisors. Trump is surrounded by career politicians in his ear telling him what to

00:24:45.920 do. And I just. Do people understand how stupid our government looks on the international stage?

00:24:53.600 And I don't think that's fair to the American people. I don't think that there are I don't 0.99

00:24:57.260 think our country is full of dumb people. I just think that our political system, for some reason, 0.99

00:25:03.640 seems to incentivize or attract some of the dumbest people to raise their hands and say, 0.99

00:25:09.600 I want to be a public servant. But they're never really public servants. Even if they wanted to be 0.99

00:25:14.540 public servants, they wouldn't even know how. They don't care. They just don't care. They're

00:25:18.860 not really educated on how our government works, what international law is. They don't care about

00:25:23.580 any of that stuff they just want a position of power and for what insider trading that's a lot

00:25:29.400 of that's going on in congress so yes right now the american people are furious we look embarrassing

00:25:35.660 on the international stage and it's just not right it really isn't i mean our fall from grace

00:25:40.260 uh didn't happen overnight and i think we really do need to invest in better schooling and education

00:25:48.060 and we got to bring back home economics like we need to teach Americans civics and civics. Yes.

00:25:54.540 Like there's so many elements of public education, for instance, that have been cut out that I think

00:25:59.460 we need to reintroduce again. So we raise people who can compete with people in China who could 0.99

00:26:04.860 compete on the international stage. We can't do it when other countries rising superpowers are

00:26:10.200 investing everything they have into future generations. We're not doing any of that here

00:26:15.260 the United States. These are all excellent points. I mean, and look at it doesn't matter

00:26:19.780 where you go to school, because this guy, as I point out, is a Harvard law or Harvard and Yale

00:26:24.840 law and business graduate. I mean, he's got all the credentials in the world. It didn't take it

00:26:29.800 didn't work. So it's not necessarily about where you get your degree. It's about actually learning

00:26:34.180 and becoming a smart person and being attuned to what's happening around you. When you were

00:26:38.240 talking, the thing that came to mind really was social media. But social media could be both the

00:26:43.700 death and the resurrection of good people in Congress. I think on the one hand, people don't

00:26:50.160 want to run because they don't want all their mistakes or their missteps to be thrown in their

00:26:56.220 face, you know, ad nauseum. People who have made whatever mistakes in their personal lives or

00:27:00.260 their professional lives know that they're going to get dragged and they don't want to do it. It's

00:27:04.020 so brutal. It's so brutal. And then at the end, even if you get the prize, what happens? You're

00:27:08.020 not respected. It's not a position that's respected anymore. So why put yourself through it? And then

00:27:12.660 And even if, like, the presidency is still generally respected, but you get that, you probably, you know, you might get a bullet in the head. 0.97

00:27:18.460 Like, geez, this doesn't sound that great. 0.92

00:27:21.640 Yeah.

00:27:22.160 Well, also.

00:27:22.980 So there's that problem.

00:27:23.660 But maybe on the other hand, just the second piece of it was, like, our kids, they've grown up immersed in social media.

00:27:31.560 They're used to having all, not mine in particular, but most have had their lives out there since the time they were tweens.

00:27:37.740 And it's, like, it's past embarrassment territory.

00:27:42.660 Like everyone's had all their thoughts and lives on the internet forever.

00:27:46.440 There's no embarrassing anybody or doing.

00:27:49.080 So maybe we'll get a better crop in about 10 years when you get to these kids who are 1.00

00:27:54.440 like, oh, fuck it. 1.00

00:27:55.260 I'm good. 1.00

00:27:56.060 Yeah.

00:27:56.180 I mean, I would, I would love for people to be able to see through the obvious political

00:28:02.520 smears, right.

00:28:03.580 When people bring up, like if you're showing me a post by someone when they were like 14 1.00

00:28:09.140 or 15 years old, how about you fuck off? 1.00

00:28:11.420 I'm not interested. 1.00

00:28:12.240 Right. 0.77

00:28:12.420 Like we need to create a culture that stigmatizes that kind of dirt. 0.99

00:28:18.260 Yes. Right. And so because we do need to incentivize good people who want to improve the country to run for political office. 1.00

00:28:26.020 And by the way, what's happening to Congressman Massey right now with these.

00:28:31.360 No, we're going to talk about that next. OK, yeah, because it just I think it's sick.

00:28:34.600 I think it's absolutely sick. And I'm saying this as someone who disagrees with him on a lot of policies.

00:28:39.000 But what I love about Congressman Massey is that he's real, he's authentic, he's a good faith actor and he's principled.

00:28:47.500 It is nearly impossible to find anyone in Congress like that. So to lose him to, you know, a Israel lobby funded candidate would be absolutely awful.

00:28:59.580 But we would make perfect sense. I mean, I mean, it shows you how our elections actually work, right?

00:29:05.100 how money in politics is really a terrible wait hold that thought sure i want to do massey i want

00:29:11.420 to do that discussion properly but i just i have one more for you on schlossberg before we leave

00:29:14.540 him so one of the other things the times points out is that you know he's he's got his famous

00:29:19.120 social media feed which is very nasty and had some of the examples i just mentioned um but

00:29:24.580 apparently as he's been running for office he's been using it for among other uh things to

00:29:30.220 plagiarize the posts of other Democrats he likes without credit. So I guess Seth Moulton,

00:29:38.940 a Democrat of Massachusetts, posted something after the Maduro raid. Can we let's do we have

00:29:45.340 the Seth? Oh, we have it spliced. OK, so I'm going to show you here Seth Moulton's post and

00:29:49.980 spliced with with the one Schlossberg posted like the next day, which was clearly copied off of Seth

00:29:57.520 Seth Moulton without credit or attribution. Watch.

00:30:00.880 I'm recording this today with a serious message.

00:30:02.880 Tonight, I have a serious message.

00:30:04.900 This week, we learned two disturbing things.

00:30:06.980 Two things happened this week that should make you feel disturbed.

00:30:10.140 First, President Trump's announcement this morning that

00:30:12.860 airspace over Venezuela should be considered closed as he weighs military action.

00:30:17.660 First, Trump ordered that airspace around the country of Venezuela be shut down

00:30:22.500 as he considers whether to take additional military action there.

00:30:26.080 The U.S. does not have the authority to close airspace over another country.

00:30:30.520 Trump is preparing for war, a war Congress has not declared.

00:30:34.480 The U.S. has not declared war on Venezuela.

00:30:37.440 And the U.S. does not have the authority to shut down the airspace around another country.

00:30:42.320 Second, yesterday news broke that Secretary Hegseth allegedly ordered the Joint Special Operations Commander

00:30:47.560 to conduct a second strike to kill two survivors.

00:30:50.740 If we were at war, that would be a war crime. 0.91

00:30:53.560 But we aren't at war, so it's murder.

00:30:55.560 If we were at war, that would be considered a war crime. Since we aren't, some are calling it murder.

00:31:03.000 It's identical. He copied him almost word for word to the point where Seth Moulton's office

00:31:09.220 noticed, reports the Times, and called Schlossberg's office saying, WTF. And they had to admit that he

00:31:18.040 did it. They were like, well, he liked it. Oh my gosh. That's where his excuse was, well, I liked it.

00:31:22.100 Yes. I can't. I can't believe it. Add an addendum that he copied. He's an idiot.

00:31:31.400 Well, I was looking for I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt, 1.00

00:31:35.260 like think about all the other possibilities before you assume that the person did the bad

00:31:39.880 thing. Right. So we all know that when it comes to political parties or political groups,

00:31:44.420 they'll pass around talking points and they'll literally just read the talking points or tweet

00:31:49.180 or post the talking points so i thought maybe there's a possibility that they were sent the

00:31:54.700 same script and so they both read the script but no that's not what happened this is unbelievable

00:31:59.900 i mean how did this guy get into ivy leagues i wonder gee could it be his i know i know wow

00:32:06.520 it's so annoying because think about it you know i there are so many kids out there right now

00:32:12.240 in like lower to middle-class communities

00:32:16.320 who are working their asses off

00:32:18.960 with like a dream of improving their station in life

00:32:22.180 by getting into one of these Ivy League colleges.

00:32:24.920 Yeah.

00:32:25.380 Like the thought of getting an education at Yale and Harvard,

00:32:29.320 getting a law degree, right?

00:32:31.920 Is truly, it would be truly life-changing

00:32:34.780 for said young man or woman and their family. 0.97

00:32:37.520 And they don't get to go because this prick, 0.97

00:32:39.900 for no reason other than his mom is who she is 0.91

00:32:43.760 and his grandparents were who they were,

00:32:46.500 takes the slot.

00:32:47.400 And what does he do with it? 1.00

00:32:48.500 This rich asshole, entitled jerk, 1.00

00:32:53.560 does absolutely nothing. 1.00

00:32:55.660 He futzes around with it,

00:32:57.880 does some tour in a van,

00:33:00.320 pumps up his social media,

00:33:02.360 works for John Kerry for four months

00:33:04.520 in yet another role

00:33:05.400 that probably should have gone to somebody else,

00:33:07.400 does some limited stint for Vogue,

00:33:09.380 writing about the Democratic National Convention and then wants it thinks that he's entitled to

00:33:16.240 represent a very large community with, by the way, a lot of heavy hitters on the Upper East Side and

00:33:21.100 Upper West Side of Manhattan. And it goes beyond that district. So like, fuck him is in his

00:33:25.980 entitlement. I really look forward to his humiliation. And honestly, if the if the residents 1.00

00:33:31.860 of Upper New York, Upper Manhattan vote for this guy to represent their interests, they they're

00:33:38.680 going to get exactly what they deserve, which is to be embarrassed. He will implode. He will not

00:33:44.720 make it past the first year in office. He won't. It's very clear to me, and I've said before,

00:33:50.200 he's mentally ill. He's not just weird. This guy is very obviously mentally ill. He was reportedly 0.98

00:33:56.060 urged by his own mother not to do this. They knew within the family he's off. There's something

00:34:02.720 wrong with this guy, and it took only time for it to be exposed. We need to worry more about the

00:34:07.660 ones who, for whom it's never exposed until they get into office and then they unleash their crazies 0.89

00:34:12.500 on their proposed legislation. Um, okay. So let's talk about Massey because that's actually the

00:34:18.820 most interesting story I think of the news today. So Thomas Massey, um, has easily won his prior

00:34:24.840 elections and he's beloved as a Republican in the state of Kentucky. However, this time around,

00:34:31.320 thanks to two factors, I think it's fair to say, he could lose his primary. He might not even be

00:34:37.900 the Republican nominee. And I think those two factors, you tell me, you've probably been

00:34:41.300 following it more closely, but are President Trump, who's very annoyed that Massey has

00:34:46.160 continuously bucked the president's demands, whether it's on Epstein or other matters. Like,

00:34:52.840 I don't think he voted for the extension of Trump's tax cuts. You know, he's like a fiscal

00:34:56.700 Hawk and that and so on. And the Israel lobby, which he's been critical of Israel, which is like

00:35:02.820 very, very rare now for a Republican. And he's had the full power of the Israel lobby, whether

00:35:10.340 it's AIPAC or Miriam Adelson and other pro-Israel, pro-Jewish groups who are just unleashing cash

00:35:18.980 to promote his primary opponent, who's been backed by the president in the, again, Republican primary

00:35:25.280 that's about to take place.

00:35:26.640 So now, as we inch up to that vote,

00:35:30.080 we get, of course, the 11th hour drop

00:35:34.360 of a woman alleging he was somehow

00:35:38.960 emotionally abusive to her.

00:35:41.840 It's like he was dating her for a couple of months.

00:35:44.400 He was emotionally abusive,

00:35:46.180 and he offered me $60,000 hush money.

00:35:49.900 And then Thomas Massey has a lawyer come out to say

00:35:52.060 she was alleging this about her ex-husband

00:35:54.340 and their divorce proceedings at the same time, and the judge found her so not credible,

00:35:58.520 he threw out the allegations. So spare me. But man, the heft of the campaign that's been

00:36:04.740 unleashed against Massey tells us what? I mean, it tells you that our elections are bought.

00:36:11.020 And if you don't play nice with the Israel lobby, they'll do whatever it takes to crush you.

00:36:17.280 And they'll have smear pieces written about you. I mean, that's what's happening right now as we

00:36:21.580 speak. I mean, you look at the campaign funding for Gallup. What's his name? Galperin. I don't

00:36:27.680 even know. Galperin. Yeah. Galperin. He's most of his money is from out of state and it's from

00:36:33.660 people who prioritize Israel over the American people. I I'm kind of shocked to see that his

00:36:41.000 challenger is rising in the polls. In fact, yesterday, for the first time, there was one

00:36:45.520 poll that showed that he not only closed Massey's lead, but he has now, you know, passed Massey in

00:36:52.500 the polling. And so what this communicates to us is that our elections and our so-called democracy

00:36:59.900 isn't real, right? That moneyed interests are the ones who control everything. They get to decide

00:37:04.800 who they elect. And a lobby that is far more concerned with a foreign country has more power

00:37:12.520 than ordinary americans who live and care about this country live in and care about this country

00:37:17.880 so we really like i just i am terrified that he's going to beat massey in the primary

00:37:23.120 not only because i think it's unfair to massey who's a principled politician a unicorn really

00:37:29.060 when you think about it um i'm worried that this is going to disenfranchise voters to a point where

00:37:35.360 they're just not going to participate in any election and then what and then what happens

00:37:40.200 Right. So there's I just don't know how to solve this other than calling for a constitutional amendment that takes money out of politics.

00:37:50.700 We shouldn't allow corporate interests. We shouldn't allow pharmaceutical companies or defense contractors who are just loaded with cash to buy our elections.

00:38:01.360 We shouldn't allow a lobby for a foreign country to buy our elections. But it's happening on a regular basis.

00:38:07.840 and if people are wondering why americans you know have lost trust in our institutions this

00:38:13.400 is a big reason why it's so true um i want to correct myself the opponent is gal rain gal

00:38:22.140 g-a-l-l-r-e-i-n um and he has received

00:38:27.360 form at least four million dollars or they've spent it on ads supporting him from the republican

00:38:34.700 Jewish coalition. He has received money, $2.6 million at least has been spent on ads supporting

00:38:41.940 him by the APAC Super PAC, United Democracy Project, all according to ad impact. And then

00:38:51.320 there's more. This is one example of an APAC Super PAC ad against Massey that's airing now,

00:38:58.040 What happened to Thomas Massey? He's flipped. Massey started out as a conservative Republican,

00:39:06.320 but now votes with liberal Democrats. Massey flipped and voted against funding Trump's border

00:39:11.320 wall. He voted against increased border patrol. And on Israel, Massey votes with AOC and Ilhan

00:39:18.060 Omar again and again. Massey's a flippin' disaster. That's why President Trump supports

00:39:24.080 ed galrein for congress udp is responsible for the content of this ad we're 40 40 trillion dollars

00:39:33.060 in debt 40 trillion dollars the pentagon wants us to believe that the war against iran is just

00:39:39.180 going to cost you know somewhere between 25 billion to 29 billion dollars that is a lie

00:39:44.520 and it's going to add to our devastating federal debt which uh we are spending a trillion dollars

00:39:51.900 a year servicing at this point. So, I mean, we're, we go ahead. I was just going to say,

00:39:58.160 we also just got the latest inflation numbers. It's up 3.8%. Just to go back and see when

00:40:06.040 president Trump took office in January of 2025, the inflation rate was 3.0. But then by January

00:40:15.860 of 26th, he had gotten it down to 2.4%. And now it's up at 3.8%. And it is because of energy

00:40:24.140 prices. That's obviously related to the war. Gas is up 28.4%. These numbers just came out yesterday.

00:40:31.420 Food is up 3.2%. Shelter is up 3.3%. So all these costs are factored in. Inflation is going the

00:40:37.900 wrong way. And yeah, we're worried about, you know, Massey and some woman who obviously is 0.99

00:40:45.640 trying to take him down a week before the election. I don't know what's going to happen

00:40:50.320 in this race, but I do, I agree with you that a super PAC that's whose number one concern is

00:40:56.460 the dollars that we send to Israel and what the United States' stance on Israel is should not be

00:41:03.240 determining what's good for Kentucky or Kentucky voters or the United States of America. I mean,

00:41:09.400 this is just, you know, we allow it. We allow care to spend. We allow AIPAC to spend. It's just

00:41:14.640 fucking bullshit because they spend and they spend a lot and it's not for domestic interests at all. 1.00

00:41:20.600 It's for their own interests. And, you know, there's just the other thing I was going to say 1.00

00:41:24.000 when you were like, why do we get such shitty politicians is I remember where I was at Fox 0.92

00:41:28.460 News. I was sitting in my office, which I shared at the time with Major Garrett, when Citizens 0.93

00:41:32.980 United was decided by the U.S. Supreme Court. And it was this decision that declared it's free

00:41:39.380 speech for these companies to spend as much as they want in these political elections. And I

00:41:43.440 didn't disagree with the ruling as a legal matter, but it was a watershed moment, not just in our

00:41:48.960 political spending, but in the way politics would be and who would be in them in America.

00:41:55.880 because now Anna what we have is like every jurisdiction is just controlled by big money

00:42:01.660 donors yes you don't have to make deals with people across the aisle because your little

00:42:06.860 jurisdiction is going to be funded by two or three very rich republicans or democrats depending on

00:42:11.600 where you live and you really just have to answer to them and oftentimes they don't want you to make 0.97

00:42:16.060 any deals and they're your they're your daddy so like you fucking do what they want and it doesn't 0.94

00:42:21.560 matter how much pressure gets put on you. And it allows things like this for groups like this to 0.98

00:42:27.040 spend unlimited amounts and, you know, get you to bend the knee for them. Now, if this guy gets,

00:42:33.840 you know, the nomination, how's he going to vote when it comes to funding for Israel,

00:42:39.200 which is actually becoming one of the issues that they're debating in more and more political

00:42:42.180 campaigns, given the changing sentiment on Israel in America. It's like, this is how it's done. And

00:42:47.580 this is a massive problem and i don't know what the solution is to that well i mean like i said

00:42:52.180 i think that it's important to rein in the money in politics through a constitutional amendment

00:42:56.760 that's really the only way to do it i okay so let's go back to the citizens united ruling which

00:43:02.900 i agree with you was a watershed moment i just find it strange that the argument in favor of

00:43:09.540 that ruling was that, well, you know, corporations are engaging in free speech by spending unlimited

00:43:18.260 amounts of money in these elections and on these particular candidates. But what about the speech

00:43:23.880 of the ordinary citizen? How is the ordinary citizen supposed to compete with a billionaire

00:43:29.540 or a group of billionaires or with a well-funded lobby that is far more concerned with a foreign

00:43:36.460 country than our own. How are you supposed to compete? And don't our speech rights matter as

00:43:40.960 well? And I mean, one of the issues. Well, that's a policy argument. You're right. I would I would

00:43:46.120 totally support a constitutional amendment along these lines. But, you know, the Supreme Court

00:43:49.960 can't there. You basically have the right to speak, but you don't have the right to have your

00:43:53.980 voice be the loudest one in the room. And so they wouldn't factor that in on how it's going to

00:43:58.300 affect the little guy. That's for our lawmakers who are a bunch of P words. You know, there's

00:44:04.160 just no leadership. There's no leadership. And that's, I mean, I got to admit, I don't know that

00:44:08.800 much about Thomas Massey. I know he's been a thorn in the president's side and I've seen people I

00:44:13.440 respect on the right say they can't stand him because he hasn't backed the president's agenda

00:44:18.740 and they found it really frustrating. But I would say in a personal matter, like I respect that he

00:44:23.660 has principles and he votes them. That's what I like about Rand Paul too. He doesn't go with the

00:44:29.240 wind. He seems to have a real worldview and he sticks by it when he's in office. I like that in

00:44:35.580 my politicians. I do. I'm much more amenable to the latest argument because I'm a lawyer. And so

00:44:41.200 I'm always trying to upgrade my information and my opinions. Politicians, they run on a platform

00:44:46.000 and then we expect them to govern based on what they promised. And I see what's being done to

00:44:51.400 him. They're clearly trying to tear him apart because of his stance on Israel, or at least

00:44:56.040 that faction is trying to tear him down and they're pouring so much money into this race

00:45:00.040 and they're it's working and it's disturbing it is disturbing one final thing i'll say about massey

00:45:04.800 you know people keep bringing up that he is a thorn in trump's side but make no mistake this

00:45:11.160 isn't because they have like significant ideological differences per se the only areas

00:45:17.260 in which congressman massey votes against trump's agenda is when he sees that the legislation is

00:45:23.580 going to add to our federal debt, which is a problem. It just is. And, you know, to be honest

00:45:28.900 with you, Megan, I mean, ever since I've been an adult and I've been working in the field I work

00:45:33.380 in, I've heard Republican members of Congress talk about the federal debt, talk about the deficit

00:45:39.000 over and over again. But they never seem to really care about it after they get elected.

00:45:44.420 Thomas Massey, they don't care. Thomas Massey is different. And so that principled stance,

00:45:49.820 I think is relevant. And also he's willing to work with the other side when there is common

00:45:55.840 ground on behalf of the American people. And yes, I'm talking about the release of the Epstein files 0.62

00:46:00.540 that was promised to the American people by the Trump campaign. But Trump didn't want to release

00:46:05.640 the files. And Massey was brave enough to step up to the plate, work with Marjorie Taylor Greene,

00:46:12.260 work with Ro Khanna, do what it what was necessary to get those files released. Now,

00:46:17.020 we don't have the full files yet. But still, what he managed to do is admirable. And there's no way

00:46:22.740 in hell his political opponent in this primary race would do the same. Yeah. And we have seen

00:46:28.840 actual things happen as a result of it, more so in the UK than in America. But a lot of folks have

00:46:35.060 been outed as doing nefarious things in those files. And we wouldn't know about it if it weren't

00:46:40.980 for the push to make that law, now that the law has a huge exception in it, that they're exploiting

00:46:47.280 to withhold certain documents. But I mean, they should be careful in withholding too much because

00:46:52.080 when we get a Democratic administration in there, if they're withholding stuff that makes

00:46:57.340 Republican donors look bad, et cetera, what do you think the next administration is going to do?

00:47:01.500 So in any event, it's good that we got the law passed. We'll see what happens with this

00:47:05.060 this particular primary. I want to mention, we talked just a second ago about inflation

00:47:11.180 and how much it's rising now. And obviously, everyone's looking at this just because they

00:47:17.240 care about their wallet, and they also care about it politically. What is it going to mean

00:47:21.720 if it keeps going through the summer, into the fall, and into the midterms?

00:47:26.920 Well, President Trump was on camera on Monday, and he was asked, was it Monday? Yeah, I think so.

00:47:33.980 He was asked a question, do we have it?

00:47:36.700 Yeah, about whether he thinks about Americans' financial situations when he's dealing with the Iranians in the context of these settlement talks.

00:47:47.700 And this has gone everywhere now as a potential campaign ad that's going to be used against him.

00:47:51.960 I have my own thoughts on it, but I want to get yours, too.

00:47:53.760 SOT 21.

00:47:54.680 When you're negotiating with Iran, Mr. President, to what extent are American financial situations motivating you to make a deal?

00:48:01.960 Not even a little bit. The only thing that matters when I'm talking about Iran, they can't have a nuclear weapon. I don't think about American financial situation. I don't think about anybody. I think about one thing. We could not let Iran have a nuclear weapon. That's all. That's the only thing.

00:48:20.340 OK, so there's no question that that answer will be cut and will wind up in ads by all Democrats opposing any Republican going into the midterms and maybe beyond.

00:48:32.740 Right. Anybody who worked for the Trump administration may have to answer for that in 28.

00:48:36.520 I don't think about the concerns of Americans at all, the financial concerns.

00:48:39.240 But I do think the president is being taken out of context a bit on this because the question was about when you're doing the negotiations with Iran and trying to settle the war.

00:48:48.580 And I think it's fair for a commander in chief to say in that moment. No, I'm just thinking about I can't let this opponent, this this country I see as an opponent, as an enemy, get a nuclear weapon. That's why I launched the war. This is Trump's story. So I actually think he should be more careful with his language because it's going to get used against his people.

00:49:08.420 But I do think on this particular one, the president's being unfairly bashed.

00:49:12.580 However, it's also true that he needs to be more focused on what's happening with the people's economy, with their with their pocketbooks, Anna, because that's all they seem to care about.

00:49:23.120 They don't like this war. They don't like what he's doing on virtually any issue and not virtually on any issue.

00:49:29.180 He's not above water on any issue. And we've got six months to go for him to try to change that.

00:49:35.140 your thoughts on it. I definitely disagree with you in terms of him being taken out of context

00:49:39.900 because he's the president of the United States. And so he has to consider the context of what

00:49:45.940 he's doing. And he genuinely believes and I can't even believe this because the whole thing with the

00:49:53.000 enriched uranium is a cover story by the Israelis. Israelis just wanted to go to us into war. So we 0.82

00:49:58.260 do regime change or yes or turn Iran into a failed state. But I guess he has been surrounded

00:50:04.780 with so many pro-Israel people fear mongering and pretending to care about Iran's enriched uranium

00:50:12.020 that he's starting to believe it to the point where he thinks that is more important than the 0.55

00:50:18.020 absolute devastation and destruction that he is bringing to the American people by being involved

00:50:23.820 in this illegal war so i just i i'm not going to give him a pass on this at all any president who

00:50:29.980 says i don't think about americans financial situation not even a little bit that's not a

00:50:35.700 good president your number one priority needs to be the american people macro you know he was

00:50:41.740 saying in this particular context that's not where i think i think if she had phrased it

00:50:44.940 what do you ever think about americans economic situation question mark the answer would have

00:50:51.320 been very different. I hope so. He's got to be careful. He's the president and it's going to be

00:50:55.740 held against him. Right. I hope so, too. Always a pleasure, my friend. Great to see you. Keep

00:51:00.060 giving him hell. Thank you. Good to be here. All right. Up next, really looking forward to 0.98

00:51:05.080 my very first conversation with Gregory Bovino. He's ready to talk very openly about the border

00:51:12.160 patrol, what happened between Noam and Homan and Trump and where our actual deportation strategy

00:51:20.220 truly stands now. Our sponsor, the Electronic Payments Coalition, says Washington politicians

00:51:25.720 are always getting in your wallet, and now they're messing with your credit card. They say your

00:51:30.180 credit card and the security it offers are under attack, and that Senators Dick Durbin and Roger

00:51:35.220 Marshall want to change the nation's payment system to benefit corporate megastores like Walmart

00:51:40.000 and Target at the expense of everyday Americans. Credit cards can keep your payments secure and

00:51:45.500 provide rewards that families use to help make everyday purchases more affordable.

00:51:50.220 The Electronic Payments Coalition says the Durbin Marshall mandates would let corporate megastores cut corners on credit card processing, routing transactions over cheaper, untested networks with weaker security and fewer protections.

00:52:02.580 Find out more at GuardYourCard.com and consider telling Congress to guard your card.

00:52:13.760 Gregory Bovino was one of the most visible faces of the Trump administration's hardline border strategy.

00:52:19.340 If he had it his way, there would not be even one illegal immigrant left in this country.

00:52:25.460 Right on. 0.97

00:52:26.320 So it made him the perfect fit for the Trump administration.

00:52:29.620 And earlier this year, at the height of the immigration crackdowns,

00:52:32.460 it was Bovino serving as President Trump's Border Patrol commander at large.

00:52:37.660 But after the deaths of Renee Good and Alex Preddy in Minnesota,

00:52:41.980 which they brought on themselves, Bovino was sent back to California.

00:52:46.760 and then in March he retired. A total loss for us. So now he's on the outside and he's not holding

00:52:54.060 back, giving the inside story about where the promise of mass deportations stands now. Gregory

00:53:00.200 Bovino, welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to have you on. Well, Megan, thanks for having me.

00:53:05.080 It's good to see you. Yeah, you as well. Thank you so much for your service and for taking the

00:53:10.780 PR beating that came with your very difficult job. I mean, it was, of course, going to happen,

00:53:17.600 but it was particularly nasty and it was undeserved and you were doing something truly

00:53:22.340 noble and brave. Let me start it off right where we are as a show, because we were shocked to hear

00:53:29.860 Tom Homan go on CBS News and sound like the door was potentially open in a Trump administration

00:53:37.160 to amnesty here he was on cbs on may 5th stop 58 would you support a compromise sir that involves

00:53:46.600 giving legal status to the millions of people who are here illegally but are otherwise law-abiding

00:53:52.860 including dreamers i'm not going to get ahead of the president on that that's president you know

00:53:56.320 i work for the president so you know that's something has to be done to address that

00:53:59.960 population or is a solution to deport them all yeah i'm not going to get ahead of president

00:54:06.260 The president's talking to various members of his cabinet.

00:54:11.920 There's discussions going on.

00:54:13.780 I'm involved with some and not others, but I'm not going to get ahead of the president on this.

00:54:17.540 So he says he's not going to get ahead of the president when asked if they're getting ready to give amnesty to some faction of the illegals, which, you know, everybody was like, what?

00:54:29.680 Did somebody jump into Tom Homan, who we love, into his head and like reprogram things?

00:54:34.980 What's happening?

00:54:36.260 And then he came out with Will Cain over on Fox and suggested that he'd been taken out of context in that exchange.

00:54:45.600 We went back and looked at it.

00:54:47.020 There was nothing out of context.

00:54:48.460 The question was very simple.

00:54:50.380 The answer was ambiguous. 0.98

00:54:53.120 He wouldn't just say we want all the illegals out and that's our goal.

00:54:56.500 He said, I don't want to get ahead of the president when specifically asked whether there's an amnesty deal potentially in the works.

00:55:03.740 So then I asked my team, Gregory, I'm pretty sure that Holman has said in the past when asked the same question, no, all illegals have to go and was never hesitant to say all illegals have got to go and didn't try to hedge like I'm not going to get ahead of the president.

00:55:20.260 And this is what we found when we look back to see his rhetoric on that issue.

00:55:25.480 If you're in a country illegally, you're on the table.

00:55:28.860 Every time you enter this country illegally, you violate a crime under Title 8, United States Code 1325.

00:55:33.920 It's a crime.

00:55:34.960 So if you're in a country illegally, you've got a problem. 0.94

00:55:37.380 If you're in a country illegally, it's not okay.

00:55:40.100 It's not okay to violate laws in this country.

00:55:42.520 But when we find him, he's going to be with others, most likely.

00:55:45.300 Many times you're with others. 0.51

00:55:46.440 If they're in a country illegally, they're coming too. 0.97

00:55:48.400 We're going to have a mass deportation, but we're going to prioritize the arrest of criminals and public safety threats. 0.82

00:55:54.460 I'd say from day one, if you're in the country illegally, you're not off the table.

00:55:58.980 No one's off the table. 1.00

00:56:00.400 If you're in this country in violation of the law, we will deport you when we find you.

00:56:05.660 It's that plain and simple. 1.00

00:56:07.140 If you're in the country illegally, you're never off the table. 1.00

00:56:09.760 Let me say this. 0.99

00:56:12.280 If the message we send is you can enter this country illegally, it's a crime. 0.97

00:56:17.460 Don't worry about it. 0.95

00:56:18.600 You can have your due process, show up in court, not show up in court, get ordered, move.

00:56:22.540 Don't worry about it.

00:56:23.940 Unless you commit a serious crime, you're good to go.

00:56:27.960 If that's the message we send to the world, you're never going to fix this problem.

00:56:31.960 Okay, so how did we get from that to a question, 0.98

00:56:35.380 would you support a compromise that involves giving legal status to the millions of people who are here illegally,

00:56:41.720 but are otherwise law-abiding, including dreamers?

00:56:45.920 Homan, I'm not going to get ahead of the president on that.

00:56:49.120 I work for the president.

00:56:51.460 Megan, the first thing I would say on that is don't be a politician.

00:56:56.560 Borders are not a politician.

00:56:58.860 Border patrol agents aren't politicians.

00:57:00.560 It's black and white.

00:57:01.480 As you said, that's a black and white subject. 1.00

00:57:04.620 You're either here illegally or you're not. 0.93

00:57:06.960 If you're here illegally, then those mass deportations make sense for everyone, every single one of those illegal aliens here. 0.74

00:57:15.700 going back and hedging on that or not wanting to get ahead of another politician on that 0.54

00:57:22.580 vastly different than what we heard a year ago. And when we heard that a year ago,

00:57:28.320 we heard that loud and clear, not just from Tom Holman, but all through the administration. We

00:57:33.260 heard that loud and clear and we acted accordingly. It does seem like things have changed over this

00:57:40.340 past year. And whether that's towards amnesty or less deportations, I think the book's still open

00:57:48.080 on that. There is reporting, including from The Atlantic, that reports in January, the Labor

00:57:56.760 Department's Foreign Labor Certification Office announced it would cut the number of approved

00:58:01.300 visas for seasonal workers by about 50 percent. Stephen Miller had been trying for a long time

00:58:06.440 to get these things cut.

00:58:08.500 He did not want a lot of seasonal workers coming in.

00:58:11.740 But they report that after those two people

00:58:14.060 were killed in Minneapolis,

00:58:15.640 Trump reversed the visa cuts

00:58:17.800 and that Miller was not even aware of the walkback,

00:58:22.000 that Trump made the decision with Homan.

00:58:24.580 And they write the reversal was one of the earliest signs

00:58:27.100 that Stephen Miller's influence is on the wane.

00:58:29.980 Others have followed.

00:58:31.860 The president, for example,

00:58:33.560 dismantling the roving Border Patrol strike forces, his turning on Noam and ejecting of

00:58:40.440 her from the administration, and handing of control of the deportation program back to

00:58:45.320 career law enforcement officials. These are signs, they write, that the softer wing of the

00:58:51.400 immigration deportation issues is winning, and the more hardliners like Stephen Miller

00:58:57.560 are losing. Is that your belief too? It is. It's definitely a softer approach now.

00:59:03.560 much softer than it was a year ago when we hit Bakersfield in Operation Return to Cinder.

00:59:08.800 That softer approach, but what's really happening here is that softer approach means a much harder

00:59:15.580 approach for U.S. citizens, for mom and pa America, the ones that are going, and it's going to happen.

00:59:22.440 As sure as the sun rises today, Megan, American citizens are going to die at the hands of illegal

00:59:29.760 aliens, as well as many other terrible crimes against American citizens, it's going to happen.

00:59:35.260 That's what the softer approach brings. If you note what happened in all six of those cities,

00:59:41.100 that those roving patrols that you just mentioned were taking place, what happened in all six of

00:59:46.680 those cities is you didn't see a lot of these heinous crimes by illegal aliens. They were too

00:59:51.680 afraid of either being apprehended and deported, or they just buttoned up and wouldn't even come

00:59:57.400 out. That's what we want to do with roving patrols, with mass deportations, is make it so hard on them

01:00:05.920 that they don't harm American citizens, and then they self-deport. The softer approach

01:00:10.300 does not do that. Increasing visas does not do that. It's black and white. It's a very simple

01:00:15.960 concept, and it does seem like things have changed that we're going towards that softer side.

01:00:22.460 But again, the Atlantic reporting that we've dismantled the roving patrols,

01:00:26.360 of which you speak, that we decided, I guess, because of Minneapolis, that we were going to

01:00:33.480 take the pedal way off of the gas, take the foot way off of the gas pedal. And

01:00:38.400 this is a distinctive shift in policy that they didn't announce, Gregory. They don't really want

01:00:44.520 us to know. Because after this interview with CBS, Tom Homan gave a separate interview where

01:00:50.700 he started to amp up his rhetoric again, and he started to sort of talk tough again.

01:00:56.020 And the administration reportedly doesn't really want to own explicitly that they've gone softer.

01:01:03.140 But it seems very clear they have.

01:01:05.340 So why?

01:01:06.680 Did the Democrats win?

01:01:08.120 Did the crazies on the streets of Minneapolis win?

01:01:12.720 You know, I think it's got a lot to do with those that are advising Trump.

01:01:16.560 I've always said that President Trump was the best case scenario we've ever had for both border security and that interior enforcement piece.

01:01:25.280 And I still think he is.

01:01:26.700 It's just those individuals advising him, including many of those politicians that maybe they're in bed with big labor.

01:01:34.780 I call those rhinos.

01:01:36.200 I think you know what a rhino is, Megan.

01:01:38.540 And I think that he gets a lot of pressure or a lot of bad advice from some of those individuals that don't truly see what's at stake or perhaps they don't care what's at stake.

01:01:50.020 So when they dismantle a roving patrol, when they dismantle that hard-line immigration enforcement, the effects are noticeable immediately.

01:01:59.500 Look at the border numbers now.

01:02:01.300 They're actually moving border patrol agents, actually the second iteration of several hundred border patrol agents to Laredo, Texas, because that border is starting to get out of control.

01:02:12.100 Look at our border numbers.

01:02:13.360 Just two days ago, about 490 border crossers.

01:02:17.000 If you take a look at approximately a year ago, when we were doing those roving patrols in the interior, oftentimes this border crosser numbers would be 90 to 100 a day.

01:02:28.280 Now they're 490, approaching 500 a day, and a lot more gotaways coming across the border.

01:02:34.740 So, you know, and the reason the reason why you stated it and we pulled this article, which I feel like you're you're going to agree with every word of this, but you'll tell me is as follows.

01:02:47.820 This is posted to the Substack Old Patrol HQ.

01:02:51.660 Old Patrol HQ is a retired Border Patrol agent of 25 years who just delivers unfiltered truths.

01:02:58.920 And this is what he wrote.

01:03:00.200 He wrote an article about you, why Gregory Bovino had to go.

01:03:04.700 He writes as follows.

01:03:05.460 For decades, the U.S. has operated under an unwritten but ironclad understanding.

01:03:10.220 If you manage to sneak past the Border Patrol agents and CBP officers at the border, you've effectively bought yourself a ticket to stay.

01:03:18.340 Call it what it is, a social contract with illegal aliens. 0.51

01:03:22.880 The message is clear. 0.99

01:03:24.300 Play by the rules of this unspoken deal.

01:03:26.720 No other crimes or any other serious crimes.

01:03:30.440 And the system leaves you alone.

01:03:33.020 They write, he goes on to say, let's say, I'm just going through the highlights.

01:03:37.680 Men like former ICE director on Borders R. Tom Homan and CBP Commissioner Rodney Scott

01:03:41.920 are widely respected and revered for their careers in immigration enforcement and their

01:03:45.420 public stances on immigration, especially during the Biden auto pen presidency.

01:03:50.800 And they've spent years sounding tough on TV.

01:03:53.180 They say publicly how all illegals everywhere are, quote, on the table.

01:03:57.400 But then says, and while it's absolutely true that the border has been more shut down,

01:04:01.800 secured as another matter entirely, in this administration, even they are firmly loathe

01:04:08.020 and reluctant to break the boundaries of this social contract. Enforcement priorities have

01:04:13.120 almost always focused on criminals. Recent border crossers with detainers are those already in the

01:04:17.820 system. And then reiterates, though, that illegal aliens have to commit rape, murder, or some type 0.67

01:04:23.920 of heinous crime before they are targeted for arrest and deportation. Because we've agreed, 1.00

01:04:30.580 We've basically agreed that if you don't commit an additional crime, you can stay.

01:04:34.620 And he goes on to say, this is exactly why you became radioactive, because you were pushed

01:04:39.620 out because your approach exposed the uncomfortable truth everyone else had been ignoring.

01:04:44.980 America no longer seems to have the will, the stamina, the drive, or the desire to chase

01:04:49.160 down millions of illegals who are now already on detainers or warrants.

01:04:52.980 The country has quietly accepted a de facto amnesty for anyone who stays out of trouble. 0.99

01:05:00.080 That's so true. Is that totally true, Gregory?

01:05:03.680 It is in many aspects. I'll tell you, it's easy to talk tough when Biden's in office or Hussein

01:05:09.300 Obama was in office or Hillary Clinton in office. It's mighty easy to talk tough. But when it comes

01:05:15.620 to actually putting hands on those illegal aliens and deporting, you start seeing it starts

01:05:21.860 separating immigration officers from politicians, immigration officers from people that like to

01:05:28.520 talk tough, but when it comes down to actually doing that work, missing in action. A lot of

01:05:34.120 those individuals you mentioned, I never heard from them for a year. For a year, while we were

01:05:40.140 in the field at an operation at large throughout those six cities, never heard from them for an

01:05:44.660 entire year. It was on us, on us to do this mass deportations, which was fine. That's good. We'll 0.78

01:05:51.780 accept that. But a lot of work to be done. As far as the will, do we have the will to do this?

01:05:57.700 Well, if you talk to everyday citizens, it sure seems that we do. I run into citizens every day that say, hey, you're going back in the field to do that, right? This isn't over, right? 90% of the people that I talk to want that done.

01:06:15.400 95% of all immigration officers, I'm talking the rank and file there.

01:06:19.500 Let's make a distinction here.

01:06:20.520 The rank and file, they want it to be done.

01:06:22.780 So there's a lot of will.

01:06:24.220 It's just I think that will gets lost in the talking points of those who have lost their will.

01:06:31.120 The rhinos, the politicians, the people that it scares to get outside of status quo.

01:06:37.280 And that's what this is all about is outside of status quo.

01:06:40.480 How are you going to move the ball down the field?

01:06:42.520 Moving the ball down the field sometimes is a very difficult, unpretty, dirty process.

01:06:49.560 And, you know, you've got to get your got to get your britches dirty, in other words.

01:06:53.220 So I think that scares a lot of people.

01:06:55.780 It puts them outside their comfort zone.

01:06:57.520 What happens to bureaucrats and politicians when they're outside their comfort zone?

01:07:01.760 All they see is risk.

01:07:03.740 And a lot of them don't do well with risk.

01:07:07.580 Life's a risk.

01:07:09.120 Working's a risk.

01:07:10.100 What you're doing right now is a risk.

01:07:11.120 What made the difference here?

01:07:12.000 What made the difference here? Because President Trump, he doesn't scare easily. That's true. And but, you know, the stories out of Minneapolis were dominating the news, the lies that were being told about those encounters with Renee Good and Alex Preddy.

01:07:27.720 I mean, we're used to that, though. We're used to the mainstream media so-called lying about anything having to do with border enforcement or deportations.

01:07:36.540 So and the president's poll numbers on immigration were going down.

01:07:40.780 I mean, not unexpectedly as a result of what the media was doing around these protests and what the Democrats did in Minneapolis in particular.

01:07:48.160 So I could I could understand from a political standpoint, which he does have to consider how he was like, at least for a while, we got to take the temperature down and we got to get this off the front page of the newspaper.

01:07:59.780 But what what should he have done in your view?

01:08:02.700 uh i think he should have went harder um some things in minneapolis that perhaps he doesn't

01:08:10.320 know is those roving patrols that were so instrumental in quelling that same type of

01:08:16.500 violence in chicago los angeles charlotte new orleans and many other cities was largely absent

01:08:22.480 for those first several weeks of that minnesota campaign i tell you i would love to who was there

01:08:28.560 That was Border Patrol on ICE. ICE was there first. Border Patrol came to assist ICE on a two-day operation. It's just, Megan, on that two-day operation, while we were in the air, in those Coast Guard aircraft, on the way to Minneapolis, that's when Rene Good was killed. And that changed everything. That two-day operation then turned into a several-week operation with the Border Patrol. However, those roving patrols did not take place.

01:08:55.320 And I think that who made up sorry to keep interrupting, but who made up the roving patrol like who was in them?

01:09:01.640 Sure. Roving patrol. That's a term specifically for U.S. Border Patrol.

01:09:06.780 That's our ability to conduct what we call total spectrum immigration enforcement.

01:09:10.920 That means everything. That means we go out on patrol. We do targeting.

01:09:14.160 You've heard of the targeting. We do special operations, use aircraft.

01:09:17.560 That is a total enforcement package that that goes after anything immigration related, not just one specific subset like targeting or worse the worse or something like that.

01:09:29.300 So that is, in essence, what a roving patrol is.

01:09:33.160 And we really didn't we never got to the roving patrol.

01:09:36.060 That also includes crowd control, riot control, that type of thing.

01:09:41.120 And if you look back at Los Angeles or Chicago, we did very well with that crowd and riot control to the point they didn't test us at all in Los Angeles after that very first day.

01:09:54.380 Same thing in Chicago.

01:09:55.360 You may have heard of the Broadview facility, the riot control there.

01:09:59.620 They didn't test us.

01:10:01.000 They didn't march downtown Chicago like everyone was worried about because we set that standard very soon.

01:10:08.140 That did not happen in Minnesota.

01:10:10.720 The ICE folks, they do a great job.

01:10:12.360 Their leadership looks at things on a different plane than we do a different way.

01:10:19.780 And when you let those rioters and those anarchists get out of control, you've got to put that genie back in the bottle.

01:10:27.060 At some point, we didn't do that.

01:10:28.620 So I think Mr. Trump, I think he would have done that had he been advised correctly.

01:10:34.320 but i i don't think that he was getting the uh the proper advisement from whoever was advising him

01:10:40.760 and um that's too bad because i don't mean to be dense gregory just help me understand because i

01:10:45.580 genuinely want to get it so would there be a border patrol group that's there and an ice group that's

01:10:51.740 there and a separate group from border patrol called the roving patrol no border patrol is the

01:10:58.280 roving patrol that's that's one of the tactics or strategies that they use for that total spectrum

01:11:03.960 immigration enforcement. Remember, the Border Patrol is your uniformed law enforcement agency.

01:11:08.700 They have uniforms on. They're sort of like your street cops. Think of Border Patrol as your street

01:11:13.420 cops. Street cops, say, in New York City, for instance, they go out and they knock down street

01:11:18.800 crime. The detectives in New York City, which are more akin to ICE in Homeland Security

01:11:24.720 investigations, they investigate. They do targeted enforcement, that type of thing. Would you send

01:11:30.780 your detectives out to do street crime. No, you would send your uniformed border patrol agents,

01:11:36.540 your uniformed cops out to do those roving patrols, to take on that street crime, to take on 0.79

01:11:42.140 those everyday duties, to take on those millions of illegal aliens walking the streets with

01:11:47.300 impunity. That's definitely a uniformed law enforcement mission, something the border

01:11:51.780 patrol has done for 102 years. And, you know, I think that that sort of got upended there in

01:11:58.460 Minneapolis. And I hope it comes back because that's the key to all of this is total spectrum

01:12:05.340 immigration enforcement, mass deportations. You have to have a uniformed law enforcement agency

01:12:11.360 on the streets doing that. Remind me, if memory serves, ICE was involved maybe in the Renee Good

01:12:20.240 death and Border Patrol in the Alex Preddy. Is that correct?

01:12:24.200 That is correct. Renee Good used a vehicle and then Alex Preddy was in the streets attacking Border Patrol agents while they were conducting a law enforcement mission.

01:12:36.020 They were after an aggravated felon who actually got away because of Alex Preddy.

01:12:40.980 I think that's something that a lot of people don't realize is that individual that Border Patrol was actively seeking ended up getting away because Alex Preddy injected himself into that situation.

01:12:54.200 One of the things that went wrong in the wake of those deaths was the messaging around it. I think Kristi Noem, my own belief is Kristi Noem, in what I think was a well-meaning effort to have the backs of her guys, overstated the defense.

01:13:10.620 You know, she went hard against Alex Preddy in a way that the facts just didn't support, like that he was there to kill a bunch of cops. I can't remember her exact language, but it went too far and there wasn't factual support for it.

01:13:22.560 How do you see what Kristi Noem said around those two incidents?

01:13:27.260 Because I believe you're a fan of hers, but what do you make of the messaging?

01:13:31.580 One of the things I think the secretary, Secretary Noem wanted to do there was get information and messaging out as soon as possible.

01:13:40.980 In many of these shootings that we see throughout law enforcement, you wonder what happened.

01:13:45.820 Those conspiracy theories and stories start percolating up rather quickly.

01:13:50.440 She wanted to get out ahead of that.

01:13:52.020 And I thought that was a pretty smart move on her part, is to get out ahead of it, get some information out there as soon as possible.

01:13:59.300 Where she got her talking points from, what higher entity that she collaborated with for those talking points, I understand that did take place.

01:14:08.240 And she put those talking points out there.

01:14:10.320 I think that was in a good faith effort to put information out there so that the American public could understand that, one, there was a problem there in Minneapolis and that there were responsible parties for that.

01:14:25.000 It didn't just happen.

01:14:27.480 So she didn't come up with that on her own.

01:14:29.940 You're saying somebody gave her those so-called facts.

01:14:33.380 Who?

01:14:33.720 You know, I think that she worked with individuals on that messaging within the administration.

01:14:40.320 and i think white house people or ice or border patrol people probably all of the above

01:14:45.680 and um that was with you do you know what you're just being diplomatic yeah no um no i think that's

01:14:52.140 the best information remember there was a lot of information that no one had at that point like

01:14:56.780 what type of a weapon alex had or you know what exactly was going on so she put that information

01:15:03.260 out as soon as she could and based on what information was available at the time and

01:15:09.400 And, you know, I think that that was definitely a good faith effort on her part to put some

01:15:15.160 information out regarding the situation.

01:15:19.680 Yeah, you can't.

01:15:21.160 That's the problem is like putting information out is great, but don't don't say facts you

01:15:25.040 can't support because then it undermines everybody involved.

01:15:27.560 That's what happened.

01:15:28.540 Do you think I mean, how would you describe your departure from the administration?

01:15:34.060 Well, I tell you, I certainly miss my Mean Green team.

01:15:36.740 A lot of folks said I was up for mandatory retirement.

01:15:40.920 I actually had a year left, so I had some more gas in the tank there for mass deportations.

01:15:46.020 I would say that I'm a mass deportations kind of a guy, and many in the administration are not.

01:15:52.980 So we definitely came to loggerheads on how we go about deporting individuals from the United States.

01:16:01.200 I'm ready to go at it because self-deportations, and if they don't self-deport, 0.92

01:16:05.620 then we'll deport them ourselves. And I think a lot of folks saw that as maybe overly aggressive

01:16:12.560 there in the administration. And I'm not a politician. Those poll numbers you mentioned

01:16:18.860 earlier, I don't care about a politician. This confuses me. President Trump seems to be on board

01:16:23.660 with that, at least we think. Kristi Noem was certainly on board with that. Tom Homan may not

01:16:30.200 be totally on board with that, but he was an equal. He was a lateral to you, right? So it's like,

01:16:34.100 who, who, who wants the illegals to stay? Sure. I think that goes back to the influences that 0.99

01:16:42.860 surround Trump. And again, I'm not, I wasn't in the White House. I was more in the field

01:16:46.760 and not on Capitol Hill or engaged in a lot of those discussions. But I think the rhinos that 1.00

01:16:53.120 came out and attacked Christy Trump, I think that's probably a good starting point. I think that 0.99

01:16:57.960 Kristi Noem. Yes, Kristi Noem. And I think that there's a lot of folks there that did not believe in mass deportations on the scale that we were ready to put that into effect. And whether that was Tom Holman, Rodney Scott, you know, certainly I didn't hear from him for a year during that operation. So what was going on?

01:17:22.540 those not once not once wow so um wow you know i think that uh that it's probably you know two

01:17:32.740 different strategies and uh i guess they were mutually exclusive i think they should have been

01:17:38.920 integrated but probably mutually exclusive well tom holman came out and said once he swooped into

01:17:46.540 Minneapolis named Paul and said, you know, I'm I'm going to handle it and said, I'm going to get

01:17:53.640 these. I've gotten the attorney general to agree that the sheriffs can cooperate with ICE. And

01:18:02.680 before they release anybody from jail, whether they've been arrested temporarily or they're

01:18:07.980 actually getting out of serving a prison sentence, they now can. He said he got the

01:18:12.460 AG to acknowledge, call ICE, work with ICE on effecting any ICE detainer that may be on that

01:18:18.980 criminal so that before we just sent them loose out on the street after they bailed out or they've

01:18:23.060 served their terms in prison, they'll give ICE a call if there's a detainer or there's a deportation

01:18:28.540 order, et cetera, for this person. Now ICE will swoop in and arrest them to have an immigration

01:18:32.700 proceeding on them. But we pointed out at the time, Gregory, that that's not going to happen

01:18:37.940 in Minneapolis and St. Paul because they're sanctuary cities. By law, they don't cooperate

01:18:44.400 with ICE. And so we actually paid very close attention to see whether Tom Homan had pulled

01:18:49.520 a rabbit out of a hat that we had underestimated his ability to do. And there wasn't. The sheriff

01:18:57.020 of the Minneapolis main lockup facility came out and said, I'm not doing that. We haven't changed

01:19:04.440 one word of our policy. We are still sanctuary. And our policy is not to cooperate with federal

01:19:10.260 immigration officials on detainers or anything else. So nothing's changed. I don't know why

01:19:16.940 he's saying that. Of course not. It's a complete capitulation in Minnesota. And what that does

01:19:23.180 is that emboldens other sanctuary cities, other blue states. It also emboldens those

01:19:29.380 transnational criminal organizations to, guess what, traffic more people across the border into

01:19:35.240 the interior because there is no interior enforcement of meaningful impact taking place.

01:19:43.500 Mayor Fry there, good old Mayor Fry there in Minneapolis, he was calling for people to fight

01:19:50.540 Border Patrol in the streets. Now, if it's going from that to, hey, all of a sudden we're going to

01:19:55.400 we're going to start turning illegal aliens over to ICE. You know, we scratched our head at that

01:20:02.060 one. You know, that was never going to happen. And that was why we were in those communities

01:20:08.700 in the first place, going after that fraud, the leering center, the illegal aliens walking

01:20:13.920 the streets with impunity, just like we did in every single other city.

01:20:17.980 Yes. Okay. So I'm just trying to pull the actual statement from the local sheriff. Let's see.

01:20:33.440 I'm looking for it. Where is that, Deb? It says, yeah, I can hear you. Sorry.

01:20:43.380 Okay, stand by, because I want to read the audience exactly what the Hennepin County Sheriff said.

01:20:48.820 This is not Megyn Kelly's interpretation.

01:20:50.920 This is from the sheriff directly.

01:20:54.200 They're not doing what Homan suggested they were doing.

01:20:58.020 And here it is, per the Hennepin County Sheriff's website, as of May 4th.

01:21:02.700 In our jail, we do not honor administrative detainers or administrative warrants.

01:21:07.880 These documents are not criminal warrants signed by a judge.

01:21:11.420 we will only comply with a judicially signed warrant,

01:21:14.240 which is, that's sanctuary city policies.

01:21:16.560 That is not at all consistent with what Holman is saying.

01:21:20.740 Now, he may have gotten an agreement

01:21:22.200 from other lesser sheriff's office around,

01:21:24.780 in terms of size, I mean, around the state of Minnesota.

01:21:27.480 I don't know that.

01:21:28.600 But the big one in Minneapolis,

01:21:30.980 which we had all the fights over,

01:21:32.320 has not changed a thing.

01:21:34.180 It seems to me we have just waved the white flag there

01:21:36.860 and you seem to be confirming that.

01:21:38.780 Can you spend another minute on Laredo? Because this story hasn't gotten a lot of attention. President Trump just keeps declaring the borders closed. Absolutely no one's getting through. And unfortunately, I think because of that, you know, I read the blog post, the Substack post, because of that unspoken de facto amnesty that we have actually been offering, even under President Trump, which is we're only going to get rid of you if you commit an additional crime.

01:22:03.200 Like if you make it past Border Patrol and sneaking in and then you don't commit an additional felony, we're going to leave you alone.

01:22:11.200 There's a lot of employers who need you in the hotel industry, some other construction industry, retail, what have you.

01:22:17.560 We're going to let you stay.

01:22:18.860 We're going to allow you to go on the public dole if you need it.

01:22:21.520 And we're not going to bother you.

01:22:23.640 And therefore, the incentive to sneak across the border is kicking back in in the wake of our downshift.

01:22:31.480 It's kicking back in, which is why what's happening in Laredo matters.

01:22:34.940 Can you explain that?

01:22:37.320 Exactly.

01:22:38.060 What happens in the interior directly correlates to what happens on the border.

01:22:42.360 So interior enforcement, those roving patrols, those mass deportations in the interior, that directly affects what happens on the border.

01:22:50.020 You know, for many years, Megan, we heard, you know, we have to cut the spigot off.

01:22:54.100 We have to shut the border down before we go into the interior.

01:22:58.380 Us and the Border Patrol, we always knew that was a fallacy.

01:23:01.480 That was not true.

01:23:03.320 And you know what?

01:23:03.800 It's been proved now.

01:23:04.760 It's proven.

01:23:05.600 That's a proven fact now.

01:23:07.820 What happens in those cities and in the interior as far as interior enforcement is going to

01:23:14.520 either encourage or discourage folks from coming across the border.

01:23:18.760 Now that meaningful large-scale interior enforcement stopped, you're seeing places like Laredo

01:23:25.760 start to spark up a bit.

01:23:27.760 And this is just the beginning of that because this is worldwide now. Immigration is worldwide. It's not just folks, say, from Mexico or Central America. This is worldwide now. And you have drug cartels and transnational criminal organizations that are keeping a close eye on what's happening there in the interior because they make a lot of money smuggling illegal aliens across that border. 0.53

01:23:50.160 You know, $8,000, $10,000 a head for just your run-of-the-mill illegal alien, and a lot more than that if they come from, say, Red China or from some of those other countries.

01:24:01.400 So that's what's happening there in Laredo.

01:24:03.700 Again, we're on our second iteration of Border Patrol agents.

01:24:06.620 I believe approximately 200 Border Patrol agents were taken from other parts of the southwest border, piped into Laredo to quell that part of the border down.

01:24:15.960 But what we're going to see if these mass deportations and this interior enforcement doesn't kick back on in the interior, we're going to see other parts of the border.

01:24:25.920 It's like whack-a-mole.

01:24:27.140 They're going to shift to another part of the border and another and another and another.

01:24:31.240 And pretty soon, it's going to be just like what it was, a very chaotic environment with a lot of people coming across the border.

01:24:38.540 Because if they make it past the Border Patrol, there's nothing else in the interior that they have to worry about.

01:24:44.380 And let me tell you, they're not worried. They're not worrying about targeting or worse to the worst. That's the least thing they're worried about is targeting or worse to the worst. Because, again, they don't look at themselves as worse to the worst. They say, I'm here to work in the hotel room or in the fields or collect welfare. Whatever they're coming to do, they're not looking at themselves as worse to the worst.

01:25:05.460 and that just begets more immigration or i'm sorry more illegal migration and then you know

01:25:12.620 what we've got that de facto amnesty uh we've always said that's de facto amnesty they get

01:25:17.760 past the border patrol what's next amnesty that in itself begets even more illegal immigration

01:25:24.980 it's game on for the bad guys right now yeah what are they they don't really care about becoming a

01:25:31.680 citizen. They don't actually have to become a citizen. They want to live here. They want to

01:25:35.460 work here. They want to possibly go on the public dole and they want to send checks home to Mexico. 0.97

01:25:39.920 And we're allowing it. We're allowing it. The shipping the prisoners off to

01:25:45.420 Seacott in El Salvador. That was the kind of stuff that scared people like Christy Noem going down

01:25:52.660 there, like doing the the selfie video in front of all those prisoners. It may have been sort of

01:26:00.100 in rough taste, right? Like it was a little jarring to see, but that was the point to make

01:26:06.780 it uncomfortable. Everyone's going to see like, that could be me behind those bars.

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01:29:07.320 It's called the Megyn Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth, unfiltered, with no agenda and no apologies.

01:29:14.180 Along with the Megyn Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jashinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more.

01:29:23.540 It's bold, no BS news, only on the Megyn Kelly Channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.

01:29:30.160 what the stats show Gregory is that now under Trump's presidency we've gotten more than 3

01:29:41.500 million illegals out of the country that's 713,000 deportations this is per the Department

01:29:48.740 of Homeland Security as of March 2026 713,000 deportations and estimated 2.2 million self

01:29:56.840 deportations. So the self-deportations dwarf the actual ejections by, you know, Homeland Security

01:30:04.940 and Border Patrol, etc. But the reason those numbers are going to go down is because of the

01:30:11.660 softer touch, because we seem to be returning to de facto amnesty. You make it past Bovino's,

01:30:17.900 guys. You're good. No one's coming to find you. How many times have you heard of the CBP home app

01:30:24.100 used since I left Minnesota. I've heard it one time. I think Mullen mentioned at one time the

01:30:30.340 CBP Home app. Something that I think would be interesting for your viewers is Secretary Noem

01:30:36.880 actually listened to us as far as those ads that she put out. One of the things we said is when

01:30:42.860 you get on there and you talk about the CBP Home app, the $2,600 and the free plane ticket and all

01:30:48.140 that to self-deport to whatever country you came from, that is having an effect. And we knew it

01:30:54.980 was having an effect because we talked quite closely with our partners there at the ports

01:30:59.700 of entry, whether that was an airport or an actual land port of entry, and the lines going south out

01:31:05.460 of the country, whenever she would get on, whenever she was on TV talking CBP Home app, or myself

01:31:12.080 talking CBP home app, it was having an effect. That coupled with that good, tough, hard-nosed

01:31:19.300 immigration enforcement, hey, that's what we wanted to happen, Megan. We want them to self-deport.

01:31:25.100 We would rather them self-deport rather than me put handcuffs on 100 million illegal aliens. Let's 1.00

01:31:30.760 just have them self-deport for us. But for that to happen, it has to be so very tough on them

01:31:36.880 here in the United States that they can't work, they can't recreate, they can't go to the grocery

01:31:42.500 store, they can't do anything. And we proof tested that in Los Angeles, operation at large.

01:31:49.020 That whole city was locked down for almost a year. Unfortunately, I talked to some of my

01:31:55.820 Border Patrol colleagues who are still active. Many of those areas in Los Angeles now, specifically

01:32:01.340 the fashion district downtown los angeles they're back flourishing again they were not flourishing

01:32:07.000 uh while we were there for that year of of of occupation there in what about e-verify

01:32:14.240 what about e-verify gregory where like you can't hire this personal as they actually produce proof

01:32:19.800 of citizenship many people believe that would be the greatest thing to lead to self-deportation but

01:32:25.280 it won't get implemented across the board you got to implement it first that's that's that's the

01:32:30.040 number one thing. If you implement it, that's going to be one facet. But remember, immigration

01:32:34.680 enforcement, and that's why we call it total spectrum immigration enforcement. E-Verify would

01:32:39.880 be one facet of total spectrum immigration enforcement. You've got a whole bunch of other

01:32:45.360 things, shutting down remittances, making it difficult for an illegal alien to own land,

01:32:51.140 mass deportations, a whole slew of things, anything you can bring to bear to cause those

01:32:58.240 self-deportation. So E-Verify is great. We need it. Big fan of E-Verify and work site enforcement.

01:33:05.480 Definitely, that would definitely have an effect. But there's a lot of illegal aliens who are on 0.94

01:33:09.640 the dole who don't go to a workplace. We got to cut that off also. Total spectrum immigration 0.99

01:33:14.940 enforcement. It's not that hard, Megan. We've got a great strategy there in the board of control.

01:33:20.500 We spent years writing this strategy before we went into those cities. That's one of those things

01:33:24.480 I would love to have talked to President Trump on.

01:33:27.420 I think he got bits and pieces of that strategy.

01:33:30.360 He's getting bits and pieces of things that sound good to him.

01:33:34.120 And I think he acts on those bits and pieces.

01:33:36.380 Again, he's the best president we've got for immigration and that type of thing.

01:33:41.480 But I don't think he's getting the whole story.

01:33:43.340 He hasn't gotten the whole story over the past year or so.

01:33:46.600 There's a lot more things we can do, e-verifying being just one of those things that we can

01:33:51.700 do to cause people to self-deport and say, you know what? I think I need to do this the right

01:33:57.640 way. If you remember, Noam always said, hey, go back to your country, do it the right way,

01:34:02.560 and you still have a chance of immigrating legally to the United States. You never hear

01:34:08.320 that now. I never hear that message now. And that's why our self-deportations are plummeting

01:34:15.040 as we speak. They're plummeting. No one's scared. They're just going to say, you know what? De

01:34:20.300 facto amnesty. Well, and the other problem we have is there's no wall. We did not build the

01:34:26.220 wall. And when President Trump leaves office, there is no guarantee that a Republican is going

01:34:31.380 to replace him. So we're we could have a situation where other than Rahm Emanuel, I don't hear any of

01:34:38.140 the Democrat candidates talking about holding on to Trump's border policies, which have been so

01:34:44.120 much more effective than any of his predecessors. No one's talking about doing that. So more than

01:34:48.640 unlikely we're going to get, if a Democrat wins, another open border situation, which we wouldn't

01:34:53.820 have to worry that much about if we had a wall. We just spent, the administration says it's 25 to

01:35:01.180 29 billion on this war. The true estimates, according to people who are watchdogs of what

01:35:05.980 we're actually spending is more like double that, over $50 billion on this war. The Pentagon is back

01:35:11.480 asking for well over a trillion dollars for its budget.

01:35:15.940 I mean, for a fraction of that,

01:35:18.700 we could complete the wall at the southern border

01:35:20.660 and set ourselves up for decades

01:35:22.980 of a more successful border policy down there.

01:35:25.880 Gregory, why don't we have a wall?

01:35:28.440 Because the war is not here at home.

01:35:30.340 That war needs to be here at home. 1.00

01:35:32.040 That war is those 100 million illegal aliens here 1.00

01:35:34.880 that are sucking us dry, 1.00

01:35:37.360 are culturally changing our society.

01:35:39.280 That's the real war that needs to be fought here.

01:35:42.500 So once that is taken into context as the real threat to America, then perhaps we can get that wall built.

01:35:51.120 When you speak of the wall, the wall is not just the wall.

01:35:54.660 It's the wall and all the accoutrements associated with the wall, all that detection technology, all those things and people that make it so very difficult to cross that border.

01:36:03.200 So you're right, a completed wall with all that technology and infrastructure and workforce, that would make it very difficult.

01:36:13.020 Even if there was a Democratic administration that came into office, it would make it very difficult for another mass migration to occur.

01:36:20.140 I'll tell you what, quite frankly, it scares the heck out of me to think what could happen if another liberal administration came in.

01:36:27.820 because guess what they're going to take a look at what joe biden did with those tens of millions

01:36:32.860 of illegal aliens that came across and i think we've seen nothing yet i think we could see a lot

01:36:38.700 more than that because they come across and and what we're going to wave the white flag yet again

01:36:44.280 and not conduct mass deportations well you know what you've got an america that has been made over

01:36:50.740 into something that you and i will not even will not even recognize that's what scares me

01:36:57.760 Do you think the numbers are that big?

01:36:59.620 A hundred.

01:37:00.360 You think there are a hundred million illegals in this country?

01:37:03.340 You're saying on top of the 330 million American citizens.

01:37:06.080 So we've got 430 million in the country, a hundred million of which are illegal.

01:37:10.080 I do.

01:37:10.700 I do believe that.

01:37:12.380 Megan, let's look at the numbers from 1975.

01:37:15.780 1975 Pew and all the other ones were talking 12 to 15 million.

01:37:20.140 When I came into the Border Patrol 30 years ago, 12 to 15 million.

01:37:23.920 2015 12 to 15 million but the only thing that was that was not making sense is working on the

01:37:31.080 border seeing this mass incursion of illegal aliens every single year coming into the united

01:37:37.500 states we all knew well there's no possible way it's 15 million and you know in my research i

01:37:43.540 looked at some other uh some other folks that have done some research bear starns and then that

01:37:48.960 yale mit study those were two of the first studies to put that at above 15 million i believe theirs

01:37:54.300 was approximately 25 million and wow for them just to say 25 million in 2016 that was that was that

01:38:03.160 was huge definitely still too low and since then look at what came in under joe biden 80 percent of

01:38:10.820 that border was wide open 80 percent a lot of we don't even know what came in 80 percent of your

01:38:16.840 entire southwest border had no detection no border patrol agents nothing and there is no telling

01:38:23.240 what came across that we didn't detect and then what we did detect was in the millions uh many

01:38:29.740 that were still unvetted but the millions that came in on top yes i do put that number at 100

01:38:35.200 million and what we saw in those major cities those six cities as well as many other regions

01:38:40.160 in the united states what we saw there as far as traffic patterns um uh children attending school

01:38:48.060 or not attending school when we were in those cities uh correlates pretty pretty well with

01:38:54.440 that hundred million take a look at charlotte 153 000 commuters 30 to 40 percent of the 153 000

01:39:01.480 quit commuting when we were in charlotte for operation charlotte's web on that four day up

01:39:06.020 that was just a four-day operation really four-day operation and when you've got 30 to 40

01:39:11.900 percent taken out well that correlates pretty darn well with 100 million same thing with the

01:39:17.180 school children um they just revamped that estimate not a lot of people know this they

01:39:21.760 just revamped the estimate of absent of absenteeism in the charlotte mecklenburg schools

01:39:27.740 30 plus while we were there for that four-day operation look what a four-day operation did

01:39:34.860 to that two-state area. Completely shut it down. I would say there were probably a lot of self-deportations

01:39:40.980 getting ready or already occurring there in Charlotte. So $100 million, absolutely. I stand

01:39:46.360 by it. And a lot of people are saying, well, that's too high. He's crazy. Oh, Chief Bovino is

01:39:50.240 absolutely crazy. Doesn't know what he's talking about. Well, you know what? Show me another number. 0.99

01:39:54.560 No one else is even daring to throw another number out because it's definitely looking like

01:40:01.360 That 100 million is a quite definable and achievable number as far as the number of illegal aliens here in the United States.

01:40:10.820 Your use of the word chief reminded me to ask you, the current Border Patrol chief, Mike Banks, is resigning, effective immediately.

01:40:20.380 This is just breaking per Fox's Bill Malusian.

01:40:23.820 He says, it's just time.

01:40:25.920 I feel like I got the ship back on course

01:40:27.740 from the least secure disastrous chaotic border

01:40:30.220 to the most secure border this country's ever seen.

01:40:32.240 Time to pass the reins, 37 years.

01:40:34.360 It's time to enjoy the family and life.

01:40:36.040 I must mention that in April,

01:40:38.720 the Washington Examiner did a report on him

01:40:41.240 allegedly taking regular trips abroad 0.98

01:40:43.520 to engage in sex with prostitutes 0.96

01:40:47.400 like to Colombia and Thailand, 0.99

01:40:50.180 which doesn't sound like a great idea.

01:40:51.480 I don't know whether that's true, but maybe it had a hand in his decision to step down.

01:40:57.440 What do you make of the resignation of Chief Mike Banks?

01:41:00.980 Several things there, Megan.

01:41:02.500 I talked to Chief Banks about 30 minutes before coming on your show, and he was quite gracious in what he was saying there.

01:41:10.760 What I will say is that Chief Banks and I are both mass deportations people, just like Kristi Noem, Corey Lewandowski and others.

01:41:17.880 mass deportations folks and we're all no longer employed by department of homeland security what

01:41:24.860 does that tell you uh so when we talk about politicians and politics none of us were

01:41:31.960 politicians or engaged in politics but that's a very dirty business a very tough business

01:41:37.460 we're all no longer working for department of homeland security we are all mass deportation

01:41:43.000 hardliners. And I use that term with great pride. Am I an immigration hardliner? You bet.

01:41:50.960 Mike Banks was a fantastic immigration hardliner. And the same thing that happened to Christine

01:41:57.440 Dome is now happening to Mike Banks. All of a sudden, they pull a rabbit out of their hat

01:42:01.900 and these individuals, you know, oh, my gracious, they're the worst, worst thing since sliced bread.

01:42:07.760 That's what I think about what just happened to Mike Banks. As a matter of fact, I think

01:42:11.820 That prostitution thing had been that had been investigated many years ago and he was cleared.

01:42:19.140 So that's what they're not telling you there.

01:42:21.920 There's a reason that that wound up in a conservative newspaper, Washington Examiner, when it did.

01:42:27.460 In other words, weeks before he would resign.

01:42:30.280 Absolutely. You bet. You bet. This stuff doesn't happen just by chance.

01:42:35.420 This doesn't happen by chance. There's a lot of snakes, a lot of swamp creatures still out there.

01:42:41.640 So careful, America, still some swamp creatures out there.

01:42:45.120 And before we go mass deportations and before we return to hardline immigration, those snakes need leave.

01:42:53.740 Gregory, thank you. Can you please come back? I love talking to you.

01:42:57.760 That was fantastic, Megan. Thank you for having me.

01:43:00.200 Thank you for your service to our country, too. We need you. We need a lot more just like you.

01:43:04.320 Wow. We're back tomorrow with Glenn Greenwald. Thank you all for being with us today.

01:43:08.460 thanks for listening to the megan kelly show no bs no agenda and no fear

The Megyn Kelly Show - May 14, 2026

Dems EAT Their Own in California, with Ana Kasparian, and Trump's ＂Softer＂ Deportation Approach, with Gregory Bovino ｜ Ep. 1317

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