The Megyn Kelly Show - Dems Politicizing and Undermining Institutions, and Cameras in Kohberger Courtroom, with Mark Levin, Marcia Clark, and Mark Geragos ｜ Ep. 632

00:00:00.480 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.820 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. I am so excited, so excited

00:00:17.500 about today's program. It is a packed show with our all-star Kelly's Court panel and just a bit

00:00:23.980 on Russell Brand, on Alec Murdaugh, on Brian Kohlberger, all new developments in all of those

00:00:29.740 and more. But we begin with someone I have long admired. I've never interviewed him. I mean,

00:00:36.940 like in all the time that we've been in the same circles, I've never interviewed him,

00:00:41.060 like an in-depth interview. And he's here. I kind of thought like it might not happen,

00:00:46.520 but we didn't even promote it because it's like it was too good to be true and maybe couldn't do it

00:00:51.280 in the end. He's here. Mark Levin, the great one, a legend in the media, host of Fox News'

00:00:59.380 Life, Liberty, and Levin, and a best-selling author. He's got a new book out right now.

00:01:05.580 It's called The Democrat Party Hates America. And it's out this week. It is currently numero uno,

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00:02:38.780 Mark, so great to have you here. Congrats on the book and welcome.

00:02:45.140 First of all, it's a great honor. I better not screw this up now with an introduction like that.

00:02:51.000 But I really want to thank you. You know, I've admired you for a very, very long time.

00:02:56.960 I've never understood why we never talked to each other, but it doesn't matter. Here we are today.

00:03:00.760 Thanks to you. And I appreciate it.

00:03:02.300 Oh, it's truly an honor. It's like I there are certain people and it's a very small list who I

00:03:08.700 consider appointment viewing. And it's like whenever I see you, I stop. Whenever I see Mark

00:03:13.980 Levin clip, I stop. Whenever Mark Levin has a book, I read. It's just there is such a small

00:03:19.180 collection of people who are truly brilliant and honest and honest. That's you're honest to a fault

00:03:25.840 and you're not just some partisan hack. You you chart your own way. You've been there. You were in

00:03:30.200 the Reagan administration, chief of staff for the attorney general at the time, expert on the

00:03:35.140 Supreme Court. So I want all of our listeners. I'm sure they already know that. But pay attention.

00:03:40.020 You're going to learn something over the next hour. So the new book, I love I love the title.

00:03:44.260 The Democrat Party Hates America, which he's never afraid of putting too fine a point on it

00:03:49.480 and has has done the same for us here. Give us the overall thesis of the book.

00:03:55.000 The overall thesis of the book is if you look around the country, whether it's the border,

00:04:00.660 whether it's classrooms, whether it's the economy, whether it's law and order in our cities,

00:04:07.680 all these things are going wrong. It's not because of nature. It's not because it has to be this way.

00:04:14.180 It's because of the Democrat Party. They run the cities. They're in charge of the border. 0.66

00:04:19.040 The unions and the Democrat Party are attached at the hip. They're destroying our schools

00:04:22.860 with their propaganda and so forth. And I decided, you know, I write these books about Marxism and

00:04:28.820 Americanism and so forth. But we have a real problem in this country right now. And I think

00:04:34.120 it's time to take it to the entity, what I call the Monopoly Party, the Democrat Party that's doing

00:04:40.900 this to the country. And then I decided to do a deep dive into their history. They have a very horrific,

00:04:46.360 bloodlust, racist, anti-Semitic history, unlike the Republican Party. And I am not always a fan

00:04:53.660 of the Republican Party. As a matter of fact, I think the Republican Party is anemic.

00:04:57.620 I think that people tend to vote Republican because they don't want to vote Democrat

00:05:01.420 and that the Republicans don't really have a positive agenda for the country. And that's part

00:05:07.540 of the problem when they fight with each other the way they are. But that said,

00:05:10.600 they also don't want to fundamentally transform America. Biden says he does. Sanders says he does.

00:05:16.660 The two Obamas say they do. Hillary Clinton says so. So what do they mean by that? So I felt like I

00:05:22.620 needed to explain exactly what they meant by that. A lot of us don't want to fundamentally transform

00:05:26.740 the greatest country on the face of the earth. Of course, the nation's imperfect. Human beings are

00:05:31.440 imperfect. But it's one thing to be imperfect. And it's another thing to be systematically racist,

00:05:40.600 bigoted, anti-Semitic, anti-American. And that's the problem we have with the Democratic Party.

00:05:47.700 It's an autocratic party like autocratic parties all over the world. It doesn't want to lose

00:05:52.740 elections. So it tries to change the election system with H.R. 1 to eliminate the electoral

00:05:57.940 college. So half the country has no representation to try and pack the courts. And this is constant

00:06:04.120 to get rid of the filibuster. All these things are traditional. They're custom.

00:06:09.860 They're constitutional to prevent exactly what the Democrat Party is doing. The Democrat Party

00:06:16.040 wants to replace the country. That is, as all these autocratic parties do. So you give allegiance

00:06:22.940 to the party, not to the country. And so you have to destroy our history. You need to rewrite it. You

00:06:27.860 need to push these outrageous, stupid books and essays on Americanism. You need to destroy the 1.00

00:06:35.180 framers and the founders of the declaration and the constitution and on and on and on. So that's

00:06:39.540 what the book does. It's a deep dive on that. One of the things that jumped out on me was the

00:06:45.440 openness of the Obamas in stating that they wanted to do over on the United States of America. And I

00:06:52.100 remember living this, you know, when they were running, when he was running, she as his wife,

00:06:56.580 they both made these comments over and over. And just a couple of weeks ago, I said, I don't believe

00:07:02.900 Michelle Obama loves this country. And I trended on Twitter for three days because of that. Well,

00:07:06.720 I don't believe that. I do not believe she loves America. And if you look back at her history,

00:07:11.240 it's pretty easy to conclude that, which is why this piece of the book jumped out at me.

00:07:16.540 And we went and found the soundbites in part that you cite. Here's just a flavor of one of the jumping

00:07:22.600 off points for Mark. We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of

00:07:30.880 America. We're going to have to change our conversation. We're going to have to change

00:07:36.120 our traditions, our history. We're going to have to move into a different place as a nation.

00:07:41.960 It's all there. I mean, they laid out exactly how they feel. They don't want the America that

00:07:49.200 exists. They want something totally different. And what does she mean, change our history?

00:07:55.240 It can't change your history. History is a fact. And yet in every totalitarian regime,

00:08:01.660 that's what they do. They rewrite their history. And it's amazing thing about the Democrat party,

00:08:05.700 slavery, segregation, the Klan, lynching, these horrible, horrible things. The country didn't do

00:08:13.340 this. The Democrat party did this in the areas of the country that the Democrat party controlled.

00:08:19.300 And so when they talk about our history, they're really talking about their history. And somehow

00:08:24.940 they've managed to accomplish the greatest con in American history, that is to project their history 1.00

00:08:30.660 onto the Republican party, because the Republicans are too stupid to know their own history and the 1.00

00:08:35.600 history of the Democrat party. And they're too gutless to stand up for themselves. And that's 1.00

00:08:40.320 just the beginning. I mean, Woodrow Wilson, they loved Woodrow Wilson because he was the first two-term

00:08:45.160 Democrat since Andrew Jackson. He was one of the earliest intellectuals for the so-called

00:08:50.700 progressive era, which I call the beginning of the American Marxist era. And Woodrow Wilson

00:08:57.120 was an out-of-the-closet racist segregationist. He bragged that when he was president of Princeton,

00:09:04.060 not one black kid was admitted into Princeton. He resegregated the military. He resegregated the

00:09:12.320 federal civil service, such as it was, after two Republican presidents desegregated them.

00:09:18.400 And for the first time, when you applied for a job in the federal bureaucracy, you needed to provide

00:09:22.900 a photo. That way they knew if you were black, and then they knew you weren't going to get a job. 0.72

00:09:27.520 And I can go on and on about Wilson, but I spend time getting into Franklin Roosevelt because he's

00:09:34.280 the great Democrat icon. He is the one that they lionized. He is the one who they consider the

00:09:41.380 greatest president in American history. Bernie Sanders talks him up. AOC talks him up. All

00:09:46.580 Democrats talk him up. Why? If you look into Franklin Roosevelt's history, and I do a tremendous amount of

00:09:52.380 research for these books, you will find that Franklin Roosevelt was a racist. He never lifted a finger

00:09:58.400 for the black community. In fact, in 1940, as I've been saying, there was a bipartisan bill put on his

00:10:05.200 desk, a federal law to outlaw lynching all across the country, and he wouldn't sign it. He wouldn't sign

00:10:11.200 it because he was running for an unprecedented third term, and he wanted to win the South. Jesse Owens,

00:10:17.680 the Berlin Olympics, famously, 1936. He was the star. And so FDR invites all the Olympians who are white. He excludes 0.68

00:10:27.700 Jesse Owens. And Jesse Owens, in his own biography, he's asked, well, did Hitler snub you? He said, I never

00:10:36.600 met Hitler. He didn't snub me. Franklin Roosevelt snubbed me. He didn't even acknowledge that I'd been at the

00:10:42.560 Olympics. Joe Lewis, the great boxer, he voted for Wendell Wilkie against Franklin Roosevelt because Roosevelt

00:10:50.560 didn't sign that anti-lynching bill. I can go on and on with Roosevelt. I mean, for instance, the Federal Housing

00:10:56.200 Authority, the FHA, a lot of people watching have benefited from that program in the New Deal. But when it was passed as

00:11:03.180 really the first big New Deal project, the purpose of the FHA is to subsidize mortgages, to help protect mortgages so people

00:11:11.200 don't lose their homes and they can buy homes. This was considered a great feat. I even saw a liberal

00:11:17.480 on cable TV say this is one of the examples of the great civil rights leader that Franklin Roosevelt

00:11:22.380 was. But there's a problem with that. No loans were to be given to any black communities or any

00:11:28.260 communities that are outside black communities because they thought they were a bad investment.

00:11:33.860 And so what did the New Deal, the Roosevelt guys do? They took out big red pens and they would put

00:11:39.020 circles around the black communities. That's where you get redlining from. Redlining comes from the New 1.00

00:11:45.080 Deal. And so when it came to... Lyndon Johnson too. Lyndon Johnson. I mean, there's another guy who was a

00:11:53.660 racist to the day he died. He didn't have any kind of epiphany. And these are what his biographers say

00:12:00.040 who like him. Lyndon Johnson voted against every single civil rights act that ever appeared in the U.S.

00:12:06.080 Senate and he participated in every filibuster to kill anyone that did except in 1957 when Dwight

00:12:12.760 Eisenhower wanted to push forward a very aggressive civil rights bill in 1957. And Lyndon Johnson meets

00:12:20.320 with Ike and he says, I'm going to kill your bill. And Ike was furious. But three months or so later,

00:12:31.820 he said, I can't get this through because this guy is the Democrat leader in the Senate. He'll filibuster.

00:12:37.620 So he says to Johnson, OK, this is a start. We'll do this. And then Johnson goes back to his segregationist

00:12:44.040 friends and they were his friends. And he says, don't filibuster this thing because it has no teeth. Now, why did

00:12:50.440 Johnson do that? Because all of a sudden he was some kind of civil rights leader? Obviously not. He did it because he was

00:12:56.920 playing both sides against the middle. He decided he wanted to run for president. And so he wanted to be

00:13:01.740 able to say that he helped shepherd through the 1957 act. And of course, most people don't know that

00:13:06.800 he took the teeth out of that act. You've got audio in the Oval Office back then. You've got all kinds of

00:13:13.820 eyewitness testimony and people writing books. The endless use of the N-word when he nominated

00:13:20.880 Thurgood Marshall, the first black to be nominated and then serve on the Supreme Court. He made an

00:13:26.020 outrageous statement. He said, I want to be remembered for putting the best N-word on the

00:13:31.380 Supreme Court. And I want them to remember that he was my N-word. This guy, 64 Civil Rights Act,

00:13:39.020 65 Civil Rights Act. These were all Republican notions, Republican ideas that have been pushed in

00:13:45.720 the past. And it's just awful. I mean, he and by the way, Robert Kennedy, they were tapping the hell out of

00:13:54.320 Martin Luther King's phone. Lyndon Johnson, I wrote about this in another book, he even tapped Hubert

00:14:01.340 Humphrey's phone. His own vice president is running in the Democrat primaries for president because he wanted

00:14:06.740 to know where he stood on Vietnam, his own vice president. At the Democrat convention in Atlantic City,

00:14:13.620 Martin Luther King's phone was tapped. All the civil rights leaders who were there, their phones

00:14:17.660 were tapped. He had Hoover send in FBI agents to spy on some of these people to see what they were

00:14:22.980 doing. This is why, Megan, to be perfectly honest with you, I look at this stuff about Trump and

00:14:28.620 documents. And I say to myself, what the hell is going on here? Franklin Roosevelt used the IRS against

00:14:36.580 every one of his leading political opponents against newspaper publishers, Annenberg, against

00:14:44.680 Timothy Mellon, the former Secretary of the Treasury under Coolidge. For 10 years, he chased him.

00:14:53.740 And even Morgenthau, who was his Secretary of the Treasury, said, he's clean. We don't have anything on

00:15:01.000 him. And even a judge who finally, I think he had to pay some de minimis amount in fines after 10

00:15:08.680 years, said, why are you pursuing this guy? And he used the FBI. Lyndon Johnson used the IRS. He used

00:15:17.820 the FBI. And he used the CIA. I just point these things out. You have Biden today, who's Mr.

00:15:25.680 Censorship? We haven't had censorship like this since Woodrow Wilson and the Civil War going on

00:15:31.460 in this country today. Anyway, I'm being long winded. That's that's sort of what the book's about.

00:15:36.780 Yeah. I would love to talk about the Trump indictments. I listened to you religiously on

00:15:41.360 this. I'm I don't know if I can say I'm as outraged as Mark Levin about these, but I'm in

00:15:48.280 your neighborhood. They're absurd. And we were covering the hearing on Capitol Hill yesterday with Merrick

00:15:54.840 Garland, where it was obviously just one long exercise in obfuscation. And I don't know. I don't

00:16:01.300 you know, I don't talk to him. I'm I'm hands off when it comes to this investigation. You know,

00:16:06.420 you'll that's a question for Mr. Weiss. That's a question. And we all know when David Weiss gets

00:16:09.900 before the Congress, he's not going to answer these questions either. And what's clear is they

00:16:14.380 slow rolled the whole investigation against Hunter and until the statute of limitations expired on the

00:16:19.080 most serious crimes. And now they're left with just crumbs, which who knows if they're going to pursue

00:16:23.820 or they're not the gun charge. All right, whatever the tax charges. We'll see. But the meat of the

00:16:27.800 case is already gone. This while they've been incredibly aggressive against not just the former

00:16:33.860 president, but obviously the leading candidate for the Republican nomination against Joe Biden,

00:16:39.480 their boss right now. So give us your take on how things are developing when it comes to the criminal

00:16:45.140 prosecutions against Trump versus Hunter. You know, I don't actually on the politics side,

00:16:51.740 you won't find me going on Fox or anywhere else saying I support this guy. And no, I look at this

00:16:58.760 as a former chief of staff to an attorney general, Ed Meese. If somebody had come to Ed Meese and said,

00:17:06.380 we're going to get a criminal warrant against Jimmy Carter. We've gone to him two, three times.

00:17:11.300 He won't give us our documents. And we're going to send a SWAT team down there when he's not home.

00:17:17.740 And we're going to go into his home and we're going to search his bedroom. We're going to search his

00:17:21.800 wife's drawers. We're going to go into the closet. This was really a general warrant, to be perfectly

00:17:26.220 honest with you. But we're going to do it. You know what Ed Meese would have said? Get your ass the

00:17:31.020 hell out of my office. What are you, nuts? And he would have said that primarily because do you know 1.00

00:17:35.440 what this is going to do to the country? Now, look, you're a lawyer. I'm a lawyer. Other lawyers out

00:17:41.320 there, they could have pursued this civilly. They could have gone to a court. They could have gotten an

00:17:46.060 order for Trump to turn over the documents. If he didn't turn over the documents, the court could

00:17:50.840 hold him in contempt and you follow that civil trail. But they didn't want to. Even though there

00:17:56.060 were some FBI agents who apparently were appalled at this whole track they were following, well,

00:18:01.120 they were basically squelched by senior leadership. One of the guys who's a senior leader is in the

00:18:07.520 national security side. He's this little guy who's very aggressive. In my view, he's got issues,

00:18:13.520 but that's the way it is. And he even has a lawyer for another defendant in this case who's filed a

00:18:21.820 complaint with the judge saying that basically extorted him. He said, if you can get your client

00:18:27.080 to flip against Trump, then you may have a better shot at a federal judgeship in Washington, D.C.

00:18:32.920 That still hasn't been resolved. And he's still in court in Florida arguing case. I've never seen

00:18:37.140 anything like this in my life. But just let me tell you a secret. I don't care what these former

00:18:43.420 presidents say. They've all taken documents home. You don't even have to keep them.

00:18:51.060 If you take a document home and you don't deal with it properly, that is technically a violation

00:18:57.160 of the Espionage Act. But here's the problem. The Espionage Act was passed in 1970.

00:19:02.640 It was passed by Woodrow Wilson and the Democrats to go after his political opponents who opposed

00:19:09.340 World War I. There are very broad sections in that act. It was used against W.E.B. Du Bois,

00:19:18.220 as a matter of fact. And it was used against others who were planning on running against

00:19:22.940 Wilson for president. That's the law they're using. But what they didn't have back down there was the

00:19:29.520 Presidential Records Act, which was passed in the 1970s and was implemented during the Reagan

00:19:34.560 administration. And under the Presidential Records Act, no longer can a president take documents and

00:19:41.480 keep them personally. In other words, you can buy, for instance, signed documents by presidents,

00:19:47.160 official documents. I've had many of them. I had the first appointment of a Supreme Court justice

00:19:52.140 signed by John Jay, who received it as the chief justice. George Washington, who made the

00:19:57.340 nomination. I donated it to Hillsdale College. You can't, as a president, do that anymore. You can't

00:20:04.040 take those documents with you and keep them. That statute actually protects Donald Trump. It's the

00:20:11.860 Presidential Records Act. And why does it protect Donald Trump? Because it trumps, in my view, the

00:20:19.080 Espionage Act. A president, it was never intended for a president to be charged under the Espionage

00:20:27.060 Act of the United States any more than it was Hillary Clinton. But Hillary Clinton didn't have

00:20:32.240 the Presidential Records Act. She was not protected under the Presidential Records Act. And yet they didn't

00:20:38.620 bring charges against her. And they bring these charges against Trump. And they do these things that

00:20:44.400 no administration before this would ever do. And so you have the potential, put aside all the rest

00:20:50.020 of the cases, that Donald Trump would spend the rest of his life in prison over documents. They have

00:20:56.560 no evidence that he sold any information, that he gave any information to the enemy. They're doing the

00:21:01.740 usual, well, he told somebody not to talk about the boxes and the usual obstruction stuff and so

00:21:07.320 forth. You're trying to set up a guy who's a candidate for president of the United States. This is what I

00:21:12.200 object to. Because if you can weaponize the Department of Justice this way, the power of the federal

00:21:19.220 government, the power of the central government knows no limits. That's why Garland was playing

00:21:25.700 rope-a-dope all day. He can't defend this. And he's not going to defend it. They just do it.

00:21:31.820 And nobody's going to stop him.

00:21:33.380 Can you talk to, speak to the consequences of the deteriorating faith we have in the rule of law,

00:21:42.960 in the Department of Justice, in the FBI? You know, there was a time when we used to believe

00:21:47.100 in these organizations and it was important that we believed in them. But now between what they're

00:21:51.300 doing to Trump versus Hunter, what they've done to, you know, parents, domestic terrorists,

00:21:56.180 you know, the lopsided way that this DOJ goes after cases, not to mention what we had under Eric

00:22:00.880 Holder, you know, you can feel it going down the drain.

00:22:05.680 The Biden, either he or his people, they appointed the most radical senior leadership

00:22:11.960 at that department in American history. They're all Obama clones. They all worked for Obama in

00:22:18.080 one form or the other. The deputy attorney general is truly a radical left-wing political

00:22:24.240 bomb thrower. She's running the place. Everybody knows her name is Monaco, Lisa Monaco. 1.00

00:22:28.720 Mm-hmm. She's all over the Hunter Biden case.

00:22:31.480 And she's all over it. The head of the civil rights division said so many racist things

00:22:36.540 when she was not, obviously, at the Department of Justice. And yet she muscles through on her

00:22:42.820 confirmation. She's the one going after 70-year-old pro-lifers and throwing them in prison 1.00

00:22:47.900 for daring to protest in front of abortion clinics. And they're using the FACE Act in a very,

00:22:54.440 very broad way to round up these people and imprison them. It's truly sick. You look at the

00:23:01.800 criminal division, the guy heading the criminal division is an Obamaite. The public integrity

00:23:06.500 section, which is under the criminal division, is run by him. The antitrust and civil divisions,

00:23:14.280 I know these like the back of my hand. They're using them to go after these corporations and businesses

00:23:20.460 and shake them down. You look at the criminal divisions going after Elon Musk now. That is the

00:23:25.960 Southern District in New York. The U.S. attorney's offices coordinate with Maine Justice on major

00:23:32.020 cases involving major public figures. And in every instance, again, I know this from my own duties

00:23:37.520 there, the Attorney General of the United States is informed when there is a major public figure,

00:23:42.520 a major corporation involved in a criminal investigation, or is going to be involved in

00:23:46.980 criminal investigation. And he gets to, from a distance, oversee these things. They're actually

00:23:52.160 going after Elon Musk now. They wouldn't go after Elon Musk if he wasn't at least sounding somewhat

00:23:57.880 libertarian or conservative and didn't condemn what had taken place with Twitter and the censorship

00:24:04.540 with the Biden regime. They're literally going after him saying that he personally benefited because

00:24:09.740 he's building some glass house and it was supposed to be for SpaceX or Tesla, but he benefited

00:24:15.300 personally from it. I mean, who has ever seen anything like this? And isn't it amazing?

00:24:21.840 Buffett's never done anything wrong. Gates has never done anything wrong. Soros, God forbid.

00:24:26.580 The Clinton Foundation.

00:24:28.480 Clinton Foundation. My God, there ought to be 5,000 charges against them.

00:24:33.320 But to answer your question, when your department acts like the old Stasi of East Germany,

00:24:40.140 they're not going to get respect. They are destroying law and order in this country.

00:24:45.780 And I'll take it one step further, Megan. These judges in Washington, D.C.,

00:24:52.480 10 out of 14 of which, I believe it was, no, 8 out of 12 of which were appointed by either

00:25:00.460 Obama or Biden. And these are radicals, Chutkin and so forth.

00:25:05.200 They are destroying even more the respect for law and order because you expect the courts

00:25:12.120 to be the referees. The things they say and the things they have done

00:25:17.280 are unbelievable, whether it's to Donald Trump, whether it's to protesters January 6th. I said

00:25:23.460 protesters, not rioters, protesters who are on the grounds of the department or the grounds of

00:25:30.280 the Capitol looking up at what's going on, happen to be standing there. All of them are getting

00:25:34.940 charged. All of them are being round up from all over the country. And you have the judge,

00:25:39.720 Judge Chutkin, who's a radical leftist, comes out of the public defender's office,

00:25:44.100 the federal office in Washington, D.C., throwing the book at anybody who shows up in her courtroom 1.00

00:25:51.000 beyond what even this Department of Justice is proposing.

00:25:53.820 And the things that she has said during sentencing hearings are so outrageous that there's no way

00:26:02.320 that this would have passed just, what, five, 10 years ago. So that's why people are disgusted with

00:26:07.940 the whole thing.

00:26:09.780 Do you just get your back of the envelope take on how these four cases are likely to shake out?

00:26:16.200 You know, I feel like they're ultimately going to be decided by judges, not juries,

00:26:21.480 because they raise legal issues that an honest judge should be able to dispose of relatively

00:26:25.660 easily. And then they'll probably go against Trump. Three out of four. And maybe the judge

00:26:30.440 down in Florida might go for Trump. And then it's going to work its way up to the appellate courts

00:26:34.620 and probably the U.S. Supreme Court. But is that wrong? What do you what do you think?

00:26:39.380 All right. Not to bore everybody, but I'll quickly go through each one.

00:26:42.120 Let's start with the one you see. Yeah. January 6th. Those four charges are so preposterous.

00:26:50.440 You know, to dust off the 1871 Ku Klux Klan Act and the irony is a Democrat administration is doing

00:26:57.200 that. It has no application here, but it doesn't matter. The Section 1502 of the Criminal Code,

00:27:04.460 which was passed after Enron, two of the four charges involve obstruction. And what they meant

00:27:09.940 there was you had executives at Enron who were destroying records that were being subpoenaed by

00:27:14.580 Congress. This has nothing to do with January 6th. But they've used it widely against protesters on

00:27:20.740 January 6th. And they've gotten convictions. But even but it's been appealed to the D.C. Circuit,

00:27:26.640 which is also lopsided. They expanded the D.C. Circuit when Obama was president and Harry Reid was

00:27:32.940 running the Senate to add several seats. And they loaded it up with Obama appointees because that, 0.88

00:27:38.220 as you know, is the second most powerful court in the country. Why? Because all these these

00:27:42.420 government cases work through that circuit. And even one of the in one panel, three judge panel,

00:27:49.680 even one of the panel judges said, this really doesn't apply. And so there are now cases in front

00:27:56.100 of the U.S. Supreme Court. And I think the U.S. Supreme Court will take it up whether that's even

00:27:59.840 constitutional. And then you have another statute that's been used almost exclusively for financial

00:28:06.200 crimes against federal contractors. And so you you take these four counts in Washington, D.C.

00:28:13.640 You take the prosecutor, this guy, Jack Smith, who I call Jack the Ripper Smith. He's a guy that always

00:28:22.160 pushes the corners of the law, that always rewrites the laws. He's had his ass kicked in one courtroom 1.00

00:28:28.520 after another across the United States. He targeted the Tea Party when he was head of the public integrity 1.00

00:28:33.460 section. So they bring him back from The Hague. You know, they sent him to The Hague, quite frankly,

00:28:39.060 to get rid of him. Gets to wear a robe. You know, he gets to go after genocidal maniacs. They figure,

00:28:44.420 OK, so out of the thousands of lawyers, tens of thousands of lawyers, Garland could have picked.

00:28:52.040 He picks him to come back because he's a headhunter. He's not a real prosecutor. He's a headhunter.

00:28:59.800 That's why he's got the Klan Act and these other things going. Now, what's going on in this

00:29:04.840 in this courtroom? They know that that city is 94, 95 percent Biden. They know that Trump doesn't

00:29:12.160 have a chance. No chance in hell. They know that this judge is probably one of the most radical

00:29:17.680 judges in the United States of America. They've studied her sentencing. They know what she has said.

00:29:23.000 Somehow she gets picked, you know, just out of the lottery to head the case. She's already made 0.98

00:29:29.100 rulings to me that violate the Sixth Amendment, the right to competent representation in the Fifth

00:29:34.480 Amendment, due process. You have 12.8 million pages of documents. And I'm not even talking about video

00:29:39.800 and everything. I'm not even talking about what the defense might have. She gives them four and a

00:29:44.140 half months to prepare. This is a woman who has, according to Dave Schoen, a great constitutional 0.60

00:29:50.580 lawyer as a case in front of her. He's been waiting three and a half years for her to decide a case

00:29:55.640 that's been set up. He said, we're waiting her decision and we just keep waiting. So she takes

00:30:02.940 what she wants to take. She moves up, but she wants to move up. But here's something that nobody's

00:30:06.740 focused on, Megan. She jumped the line. First, she calls the Democrat elected judge in Manhattan and says, 0.58

00:30:15.560 I want to go first. He says, well, of course, you go first. He jumps the line with the judge in

00:30:21.660 Florida. How does she jump the line? Because that was the first case the government brought, 0.97

00:30:26.880 the documents case. So when you're docketing these cases, that's the first case. And she sets

00:30:32.440 the trial for May. I don't believe it'll stay in May. She sets it for May. The next thing you know,

00:30:37.760 the second case that the prosecutor brings is now the first case, because she moves up the trial 0.69

00:30:44.420 to the day before the Tuesday Super Tuesday. She moves it up to March 4th. So she jumps the line

00:30:52.320 on the first case because she wants her case heard first. Now, why? 0.94

00:30:57.760 Just to clarify again, so he's talking about the January 6th federal case is now number one,

00:31:01.920 even though the Mar-a-Lago's document case was filed first. Florida's after now. Washington,

00:31:06.920 D.C., Judge Chutkin, this committed leftist who said very negative things about Trump and other

00:31:11.700 cases. Now she's number one. Trial to take place the day before to start Super Tuesday. Keep going. 0.99

00:31:17.680 Right. And she moved the whole schedule up. She truncated discovery. She truncated everything to 1.00

00:31:23.180 make it impossible to really prepare your defense. And you have a right to a defense. She says it's

00:31:28.460 the Speedy Trial Act is a public interest. Speedy Trial Act has nothing to do with the public. It has to do

00:31:34.360 the defendant. Any moron knows that who's practiced law for 13 minutes. So anyway, she's twisting and 1.00

00:31:42.100 turning and she's moving calendars because she knows or she believes that a Democrat jury will 0.99

00:31:48.860 convict Donald Trump of at least one of the charges. And then the question is, does she send

00:31:54.840 Donald Trump to prison right away? Does she stay her decision so he can appeal it to the circuit court

00:32:02.740 and eventually to the Supreme Court? Well, here's what else she knows, that if she gets what she wants,

00:32:08.920 Donald Trump will be running for president as a convicted felon. And that's what Biden wants.

00:32:15.260 That's what that judge wants. That's what the prosecutors want. By the time you have an appeal,

00:32:21.120 even if it's an interlocutory appeal, meaning an appeal that raises unique issues or constitutional

00:32:27.980 issues that the circuit court should take up or might take up during the course of the trial,

00:32:32.740 she knows that all takes time. And so by the time it all shakes out, the election will be over

00:32:39.240 and they're doing this purposely. So the Trump lawyers have filed a recusal motion and they're

00:32:45.460 right, providing all these statements that she's made from the bench, which are absolutely outrageous.

00:32:51.760 They're disqualifying.

00:32:53.920 A hundred percent. And here's something that happened that I've never seen in all my years.

00:32:58.420 So the government files a response to the motion by Trump's lawyers for that judge to

00:33:06.040 recuse herself. I have never seen anything like that in my life.

00:33:09.120 They don't want to lose her.

00:33:10.520 They don't want to lose her. One hundred percent. They feel they have her in their back pocket

00:33:15.460 and they're telling her, no, don't listen to them. Listen to us. We like you.

00:33:19.920 I have never seen that in my life ever. It just shows you the corruption that's taking place here

00:33:25.380 real fast. The case in in Florida is not, as some legal analysts like to say, a slam dunk to me.

00:33:33.220 There are a number of motions that can be filed. There are complex constitutional issues in that case.

00:33:38.920 And so motions can be filed depending on how the judge views some of these motions.

00:33:44.580 You could have interlocutory appeals and so forth. She doesn't strike me

00:33:48.060 as as a bomb thrower one way or the other, quite frankly, although the media have done their very

00:33:53.440 best to to undermine her. But there are serious issues that can be raised, starting with the

00:33:58.620 warrant. I mean, you have a warrant that says you can search for these boxes and anything around it.

00:34:04.940 Well, you know, that's not that's not a warrant. That's not probably and anything around it.

00:34:09.360 No. So there are arguments to be made. There are motions to be made. And that's just one of them.

00:34:14.240 So I don't I don't agree with any McCarthy and Jonathan Turley or anybody else that this is slam dunk in the end.

00:34:23.560 Maybe there'll be a conviction, but that's a long way off.

00:34:27.920 The case in Georgia, former Attorney General Ed Meese just filed an affidavit in this.

00:34:33.780 He's in his 90s, smart as can be. Physical health is deteriorating.

00:34:38.120 But he's a wonderful man. He said.

00:34:41.560 This D.A., this local county D.A.

00:34:46.560 Is charging federal officials for what they did as federal officials.

00:34:51.920 And they have every right as federal officials to give advice to.

00:34:57.320 State officials.

00:34:59.460 To suggest to state officials that they might want to do X, Y or Z.

00:35:03.480 But you can't have a district attorney.

00:35:06.180 There's 15,000 district attorneys in this country.

00:35:08.620 God knows how many assistant district attorneys.

00:35:11.420 Now charging an assistant attorney general of the United States for advice that he gave to the secretary of state.

00:35:19.640 In Georgia.

00:35:20.560 And by the way, the advice was not was wasn't wasn't forced.

00:35:27.000 They can take it or leave it.

00:35:29.160 So now me says not only is this a federal matter, but you're now charging federal officials for giving their opinions to state officials.

00:35:37.840 So he says this needs to be in federal court.

00:35:40.000 It really does.

00:35:40.720 And the guy that just ruled that it shouldn't be a federal district judge.

00:35:43.640 Another one was appointed by Obama.

00:35:48.360 I assume you think as little of the New York prosecution as I do.

00:35:51.620 That's I mean, it's a nothing.

00:35:53.060 But I worry.

00:35:54.200 I worry about that judge and I worry about these juries.

00:35:56.760 I'm telling you.

00:35:57.440 I've seen some weird things go on here.

00:36:02.240 People being convicted for things and you shake your head and you say, what the hell is going on around here?

00:36:07.260 You've got jury nullification.

00:36:08.120 Let me ask it this way.

00:36:09.400 Of the four we're looking at, scale of one to ten, ten guaranteed he's going to prison, zero, no chance.

00:36:16.360 You know, all in, all four of them.

00:36:18.440 Where would you put the chances that he actually is going to prison?

00:36:23.360 Megan, it's a question I don't even want to contemplate.

00:36:25.800 You know, people say to me all the time in a different context.

00:36:29.960 Are you pessimistic or optimistic about the future of the country?

00:36:34.400 I said, why does it matter? 0.69

00:36:36.520 Fight like hell.

00:36:37.940 I can't predict the outcome, but fight like hell.

00:36:41.760 That's what I tell my radio audience.

00:36:44.100 I'm not Nostradamus.

00:36:45.820 It doesn't make any difference what I think.

00:36:48.800 I think this is all extraordinarily dangerous to the country.

00:36:51.760 I think when you have a state-run media, in effect, defending a state-run party that monopolizes the country, that people are gravely deserved.

00:37:03.060 And that is what's taking place here.

00:37:04.920 And honestly, just to circle back, that's why I wrote the book.

00:37:08.800 You have a state-run party that is monopolizing our legal system, that is monopolizing our electoral system, that wants to change it in every respect, that is trying to monopolize our court system with its threats against the Supreme Court and its independence.

00:37:23.000 I've never seen anything like this.

00:37:24.820 Nobody has, except with FDR once.

00:37:28.400 And you have to have, and I read all these books from these people who have survived Nazi Germany and Stalin's Soviet Union and Castro's gulags and all, and they all say the same thing about totalitarianism.

00:37:43.880 The party comes before the country.

00:37:45.940 You have to show allegiance to the party, any disagreement with the party, any debate with the party needs to be punished in one form or the other, because your individual thoughts are of no consequence.

00:37:59.860 Your individual thoughts, as a matter of fact, are undermining the communal, the effort to put together this fantastic, more perfect, paradisiacal-type society.

00:38:10.300 And so while free speech might be a great thing, as Lennon said, speech needs to be changed, words need to be changed to support the party.

00:38:19.460 You even see that today.

00:38:20.800 I wrote a whole chapter on this, the change of language in order to change the way people think and behave and act to do what?

00:38:29.980 To support the party's agenda.

00:38:32.740 So you can't have debates.

00:38:34.200 You can't even have scientists debating each other, medical experts debating each other.

00:38:37.960 That's what all this censorship has been about.

00:38:39.380 That's what all the Scarlet Letter stuff has been about.

00:38:41.860 That's what wokeism, a word I don't like, it's so passive.

00:38:44.660 That's what it's all about.

00:38:46.440 They want conformity.

00:38:48.520 That's what they want.

00:38:49.380 They do not want debate.

00:38:51.580 It's why, I mean, just to name a couple, we now have to refer to, I have to call myself a cis woman, as opposed to just a woman, because that's them controlling my language about my own gender so that they can stuff a certain kind of man into my gender. 0.54

00:39:05.900 It's why there was a law passed years ago in New York City that made it illegal to refer to illegal aliens.

00:39:13.240 If you had any sort of malice in your heart, because they will police the words that come out of your mouth and the way we're seeing up north in Canada, which sadly is a step ahead of us.

00:39:22.800 And by that, I mean, down the drain on a lot of these issues.

00:39:25.360 That brings me to immigration, which is, God knows, a mess. 1.00

00:39:29.900 And it's worse right now than it's been.

00:39:32.000 I mean, we just crossed a very dark milestone today.

00:39:34.960 I'm going to squeeze in a quick break and pick it up right there with the one and only, the great one, Mark Levin.

00:39:39.840 Don't forget, the book is called The Democrat Party Hates America.

00:39:44.340 He says the Democrat Party.

00:39:45.400 The Democrat Party hates America.

00:39:47.100 And he lays out the case as only Levin can.

00:39:50.200 Let's talk about immigration.

00:39:56.760 Here's the latest posted by Fox's Bill Malusian, who's been doing such great work down there.

00:40:01.780 Breaking just an hour and a half ago.

00:40:04.600 Per CPB sources, in the last 24 hours alone, over 10,000 migrants were encountered at the southern border,

00:40:12.480 bringing us back to the all time record high levels we last saw in May before the end of Title 42.

00:40:18.740 And just in case people think it was just today, no, it's been inching up.

00:40:23.000 It's been in the 9,000s and change for days, going on weeks on end now.

00:40:28.240 I mean, tens of thousands are coming in week after week after week, flooding the southern border in Texas.

00:40:36.520 And then, of course, they get bussed elsewhere now, Mark.

00:40:39.600 I mean, I used to kind of question the use of the term invasion.

00:40:44.100 I'm not sure what other word there is at this point.

00:40:46.600 I don't know, five to six million illegal aliens in the Biden administration and God knows how many others are given an official rubber stamp bill of approval.

00:40:57.420 I bet we're at the 10 million mark.

00:40:59.760 And I want people to think about that for a second, because where are all these people?

00:41:04.320 You see them at the border, but now they're in every part of the United States.

00:41:08.960 Who are all these people?

00:41:10.160 We don't look at this, by the way.

00:41:11.320 It's mostly single males.

00:41:12.660 That's what the reporting is, too.

00:41:13.660 You look at the video, it's mostly single young men.

00:41:17.120 And what's the problem with that?

00:41:18.580 It's single young men who commit the most crime in the United States and in most countries all over the world. 0.90

00:41:23.600 We don't have the capacity to know who most of these people are, whether they're friend or foe, whether they're criminal or terrorist or anything of the sort.

00:41:32.460 And I want to talk about this in a little bit of a different way.

00:41:35.460 When you have a president of the United States who does this to a country, who allows criminals to come across the border, potentially terrorists, he has no idea.

00:41:46.160 Fentanyl and other drugs are killing up to 100,000 Americans every single year.

00:41:50.320 When you have anarchy and mayhem going on on that border and now in the interior of the United States, women being raped and sold into sex trafficking, same with little kids. 1.00

00:42:01.380 You have 85 to 100,000 young people from other countries who are now basically indentured servants and various hellholes here and there. 1.00

00:42:12.000 This is not nature. This is man-made because Joe Biden refuses to enforce the existing immigration laws.

00:42:20.460 And they say two things in response.

00:42:22.160 The border is secure.

00:42:23.200 So they're lying unbelievably.

00:42:25.380 Or it's the Republicans' fault because we need comprehensive immigration reform.

00:42:29.080 We don't need comprehensive immigration reform.

00:42:31.560 We need border security.

00:42:33.880 And presidents know how to do this if they want to do it.

00:42:36.900 And presidents know how not to do it if they don't.

00:42:39.100 This is the most outrageous assault on the body politic on the American people in modern American history.

00:42:47.560 The greatest enemy we have here is not the communist Chinese, and they are the greatest foreign enemy we have. 1.00

00:42:54.240 It's the Democrat Party.

00:42:56.060 Now, they can whine all they want in New York and New York State, but Biden knows they're all going to vote Democrat anyway.

00:43:02.560 So he doesn't care.

00:43:03.920 They're playing long ball.

00:43:04.860 They want to turn Texas. 0.98

00:43:05.980 They turned Arizona.

00:43:06.960 They turned Nevada.

00:43:08.300 They've turned New Mexico. 0.91

00:43:10.480 They've almost turned Georgia.

00:43:11.920 They want to turn Texas. 0.98

00:43:14.900 You might say, well, illegal aliens can't vote.

00:43:16.660 No.

00:43:17.540 But when they're here long enough, their children are American citizens.

00:43:20.140 They can vote.

00:43:21.440 Or you have chain migration.

00:43:23.300 People aren't even thinking about that.

00:43:24.920 So when you're talking about six million illegal aliens, almost none of whom, very small percentage, show up for their administrative court date.

00:43:32.420 So here's my point, Megan.

00:43:35.300 I was studying the history of the impeachment clause.

00:43:39.220 And it goes back to Britain and it goes back to the parliament trying to assert some power over the monarchy and over appointees of the monarchy and then over members of its own body, parliament.

00:43:52.740 And our framers looked very carefully all over the world at these different practices and these different rules and so forth.

00:44:00.320 So they debated the impeachment clause at some length.

00:44:04.060 And we're thinking about using the word maladministration.

00:44:08.500 Madison said that's too weak.

00:44:09.900 You know, then we'll have a president impeached every other week. 0.99

00:44:13.020 So they came up with the phrase treason, bribery, high crimes and misdemeanors.

00:44:17.680 So here's the problem. 0.61

00:44:19.500 You have, again, these former federal prosecutors who don't know a damn thing about the Constitution and others like Democrats.

00:44:26.880 And they say, well, you can't prove that Joe Biden took any money.

00:44:32.720 Well, you don't have to prove that Joe Biden took any money.

00:44:36.340 Andrew Johnson was impeached.

00:44:37.920 It had nothing to do with money.

00:44:39.900 Bill Clinton was impeached.

00:44:41.360 That had nothing to do with money.

00:44:42.720 Donald Trump was impeached twice.

00:44:44.300 That had nothing to do with money.

00:44:46.360 So what is it?

00:44:47.360 What's the rule?

00:44:48.080 So then you got to look at what each delegate said.

00:44:50.520 And where you go for that is at the state convention.

00:44:53.340 So I looked at North Carolina, Pennsylvania and so forth.

00:44:55.940 I know I'm a nerd.

00:44:56.880 I can't help it.

00:44:57.480 I read this stuff.

00:44:58.260 I love this stuff.

00:44:59.380 And what did I find out?

00:45:01.680 The bottom line, the consensus position is political offenses against the society, against the citizenry.

00:45:09.900 In other words, it's much broader than a specific piece of the criminal code, most of which didn't even exist.

00:45:16.660 It's bigger than that.

00:45:18.600 A high crime and misdemeanor.

00:45:20.180 A high crime.

00:45:21.480 Have you done something to the country that damages the country in a significant way?

00:45:27.020 And so I've said on the radio, hoping that some of these Republicans on Capitol Hill will listen.

00:45:33.120 In the Senate, they don't listen.

00:45:34.440 But maybe some in the House.

00:45:35.840 You go ahead and pursue the financial crimes.

00:45:38.040 That's crucially important.

00:45:39.920 Crucially important to know if the president of the United States is a Manchurian president.

00:45:43.720 If he's been bought and paid for.

00:45:44.980 It certainly looks like it to me.

00:45:46.640 And the case is self-evident.

00:45:48.420 Unless you're watching one of these crazy news channels.

00:45:51.900 But what's troubling to me is the greatest reason that Joe Biden should be impeached is what you showed two minutes ago.

00:46:02.040 He's violating his oath of office to uphold the rule of law, to uphold the Constitution.

00:46:08.080 He is undermining existing laws that prevent what's happening from happening.

00:46:14.180 The damage that he's doing to the country is incalculable.

00:46:19.040 From a law enforcement perspective, safety and health perspective, our school systems are overwhelmed.

00:46:25.840 Our communities are begging for help.

00:46:28.340 American citizens are suffering as a result of what Joe Biden is allowing to happen on this border like no president before him.

00:46:37.340 None.

00:46:37.620 And so this should be impeachment article number one, refusing to protect the American people, refusing to enforce the immigration laws, allowing these horrendous acts of inhumanity taking place on the both sides of the border, allowing drug cartels.

00:46:55.260 Now they have a they have locations in every state, all 50 states and the mayhem that he's created.

00:47:04.620 This is an impeachable offense.

00:47:08.720 The only have a couple of minutes left, but your thoughts on 2024.

00:47:14.260 I mean, I I know you're voting Republican, but do you have any thoughts on, you know, who's going to be the best person to get that football across the end zone?

00:47:24.500 Is it Donald Trump?

00:47:25.320 Is the majority of the party seems to believe?

00:47:29.640 First of all, let me say this.

00:47:31.400 We have a very weak farm team.

00:47:33.000 I got to be honest with you.

00:47:34.360 I watched this debate.

00:47:35.540 Asa Hutchison, the gentleman from North Dakota, seems like a very nice man.

00:47:40.460 You'll notice Nikki Haley never runs on her record. 0.93

00:47:43.420 Eight years as a governor.

00:47:44.720 I'd love to know what 10 things did you do as governor?

00:47:48.340 We got Chris Christie, who's basically an anti-Trump torpedo.

00:47:52.940 Mike Pence does a better Chris Christie than Chris Christie in the last debate.

00:47:57.100 So I look at them and I think to myself, what would I who would I whittle it down?

00:48:03.280 When Donald Trump ran in 2016, I backed Ted Cruz.

00:48:08.160 And when Ted Cruz lost and Donald Trump won, I backed Donald Trump.

00:48:11.300 He was far more conservative than I ever could have imagined, far more conservative than either the Bushes ever were, far more conservative than the Republican leadership in the Senate.

00:48:23.780 I look at Ron DeSantis.

00:48:26.440 I'm a resident of Florida.

00:48:29.020 This guy's unbelievable.

00:48:30.620 The things that he's done, the culture wars that he's been willing to fight and so forth and so on.

00:48:35.580 So from my perspective, if Donald Trump is the nominee, I'm all in.

00:48:40.520 If something horrific happens and it turns out that he's not, maybe because of one of these indictments or so forth and so on, I'm all in with DeSantis.

00:48:48.700 That's the best way I can answer that.

00:48:50.180 Mark Levin, it's so great to talk to you.

00:48:54.840 I only wish I had eight hours, but if you want to spend eight hours or more with Mark Levin, just buy the book, The Democrat Party Hates America.

00:49:03.420 We need to support Mark so he can keep writing books like this because they're always intellectually stimulating.

00:49:07.720 You always learn something.

00:49:08.660 He has a great way of communicating, as you have heard a great one.

00:49:12.140 Thank you so much for being here.

00:49:14.260 Let me tell you, it's my great honor.

00:49:15.600 I love it when you allow me to actually speak and explain things, you know, rather than sort of the machine gun Kelly types of stuff.

00:49:23.240 And I really appreciate the opportunity, Megan.

00:49:25.620 You do a great show here.

00:49:27.360 Thank you, Mark.

00:49:28.340 All the best.

00:49:29.120 I hope I get to see you again soon.

00:49:30.520 And up next, we have the Mark Levin's of the legal world, Marsha Clark and Mark Garagos.

00:49:37.580 Love this.

00:49:38.080 This is like a team legal panel to get into some stunning developments in some of the biggest cases that we've been following from Russell Brand to Brian Kohlberger and the Idaho murders to Alec Murdoch.

00:49:48.700 There's another update.

00:49:49.960 Stay tuned.

00:49:51.340 We'll be right back.

00:49:52.020 Now on to Kelly's Court with my all-star panel.

00:50:00.000 There are new developments in the hottest cases this week.

00:50:02.920 Brian Kohlberger, that's the Idaho murder of those four college students last November.

00:50:08.080 Alex Murdoch down South Carolina, and he's seeking a new trial.

00:50:13.000 We discussed that a couple of weeks ago.

00:50:15.220 There's an update in his push to get a retrial, and the consensus of our earlier panel was he's looking good for it.

00:50:22.480 Also, Russell Brand will tell you how that's now turning potentially into a criminal investigation and more.

00:50:29.360 Joining me now, Mark Garagos, managing partner at Garagos and Garagos, along with Marsha Clark, who's a former prosecutor and New York Times best-selling author.

00:50:39.920 Welcome back to Kelly's Court, Mark and Marsha.

00:50:42.740 Thank you.

00:50:43.760 Hey, Megan.

00:50:44.180 Great to have you both.

00:50:45.760 All right, so let me start with this case that's been all over the news lately, and that is this.

00:50:51.300 This, these teenage boys, I mean, I don't even want to use the term boys, these teenagers who killed that poor man riding his bicycle.

00:51:00.840 For those who haven't seen it, it's disturbing.

00:51:03.060 We will show you the video, but a warning that it is deeply disturbing.

00:51:07.220 There's two teens in the car.

00:51:10.400 They're in Las Vegas.

00:51:12.740 One is driving.

00:51:14.000 One is a passenger, and he is filming.

00:51:17.080 And what we now know is it was like a joyride in which they were trying to hurt and kill people,

00:51:24.440 and not just the man that they actually did manage to kill, whose name was Andreas Probst, 64 years old, retired police officer, and this happened in Las Vegas.

00:51:36.960 So we now know, I think, that they were 17, and after some searching, they managed to find them both.

00:51:43.400 They're both now in police custody.

00:51:44.600 They're going to be charged as adults for murder.

00:51:48.400 Oh, here's the poor man who was killed.

00:51:50.460 He was on a 6 a.m. bike ride trying to keep his health going, had retired not long ago, has a family.

00:51:57.000 Just out there, I mean, just like the senselessness of it.

00:51:59.520 He's just out there minding his own business, getting some exercise.

00:52:01.580 And these two come by, and we'll show you the video now.

00:52:08.960 All right, we stop it before they hit him.

00:52:15.640 There's no reason to replay that.

00:52:17.000 And you can hear them celebrating it.

00:52:20.960 They're giggling on the full tape.

00:52:23.060 One says to the other, ready?

00:52:25.040 And the driver speeds up directly behind the retired police officer. 1.00

00:52:28.220 The other guy says, yeah, hit his ass, says the passenger. 1.00

00:52:31.640 And after he gets thrown onto the windshield and, now we know, killed, the one says, damn, 1.00

00:52:39.720 that N-word got knocked out, as the driver can be heard stepping on the gas. 0.95

00:52:46.660 I know, thanks to the Supreme Court opinion in 2005, it was, Mark, we don't have the death

00:52:53.400 penalty anymore for people who commit crimes while under the age of 18.

00:52:58.080 But my God, you look at this videotape, and I'll tell you what, I would have been fine

00:53:02.620 with that.

00:53:03.140 I would have been fine with that penalty on these two guys.

00:53:06.020 So how do you see this case?

00:53:08.460 Well, I think the defense is clearly going to argue or try to find any soft place to land.

00:53:13.700 They're going to argue what you generally do with young males, that their brains aren't

00:53:18.440 fully developed until they hit 25.

00:53:20.720 There's all kinds of scientific evidence to that.

00:53:24.660 But as you indicated, for those of us who are of my vintage, you take a look at that,

00:53:31.340 and it's kind of one of your worst nightmares.

00:53:33.720 You assume when you're either out walking, biking, or running, that there is a social contract,

00:53:39.460 so to speak, that people are going to not negligently hit you, let alone intentionally hit you.

00:53:46.000 And it's a tough case to defend.

00:53:49.440 It's a very tough case to defend, especially with that videotape and the seeming nonchalance.

00:53:56.520 So what's likely to happen here, Marsha, when we know, OK, they're upping the stakes by trying

00:54:01.400 them as adults, but everyone knows that the death penalty is off the table?

00:54:06.620 All right.

00:54:08.640 So Mark has it right that the defense has to be going for the studies, and they are now

00:54:13.220 numerous.

00:54:13.920 And actually, the United States Supreme Court has repeatedly acknowledged these studies

00:54:17.840 as showing the unformed brains from the low development of young men below the age of 25,

00:54:24.620 and particularly below the age of 18, which I think both of these people were.

00:54:29.740 So that will be the tack they take.

00:54:32.860 There may be drugs involved.

00:54:34.420 We'll see.

00:54:35.320 That would have an impact as well.

00:54:37.700 Nothing's going to save them, in my opinion, in terms of a not guilty verdict.

00:54:42.340 I don't think that's at all in the cards.

00:54:44.300 They will be convicted.

00:54:45.440 The question is how much they'll be convicted of.

00:54:49.260 The fact that they were actually targeting others as well as the man they tragically killed,

00:54:54.560 that will weigh against them, of course, and indicate a definite frame of mind.

00:55:00.820 I mean, there's an intent to kill.

00:55:02.340 It's premeditated.

00:55:03.700 So this is definitely a first-degree case.

00:55:06.720 I don't see any real daylight for the defense in this case, no matter what they do with all

00:55:11.460 the scientific studies, given this videotape.

00:55:13.660 It just takes every question off the table about their state of mind.

00:55:18.020 So I think these guys are going away for a very long time.

00:55:21.340 If, indeed, the prosecutor does not figure a way to find him with life without.

00:55:26.680 But you should know that I don't know whether that particular state has the same laws as

00:55:31.920 California, but in California, minors who are charged, even when they get convicted with

00:55:36.780 life without, if they are under the age of 18, they are eligible for early parole after

00:55:41.580 serving 25 years.

00:55:43.260 So I don't know if they have that law in particular, but that is another possibility.

00:55:48.660 We'll have to look that up.

00:55:49.740 So the audience knows that the couple, reading from the New York Post, also allegedly struck

00:55:55.960 a 72-year-old man around 5.30 a.m. that same morning.

00:56:01.220 Thank God that man only had non-life-threatening injuries.

00:56:05.360 They're also accused of intentionally ramming into a second car traveling nearby before setting

00:56:11.540 their sights on Probst.

00:56:13.520 They also said that they stole at least four cars that morning to carry out their violent

00:56:18.060 spree.

00:56:18.900 They caught the one 17-year-old who I think was driving the car that same day, and then

00:56:24.720 now they've just caught the other, which it took them five weeks to track down the passenger

00:56:28.880 who was wearing a mask.

00:56:30.300 And the police, too.

00:56:31.320 Of course, Mark, are talking about the senselessness of this and how their statements make leave

00:56:36.040 no doubt that everything, quote, was intentional.

00:56:38.600 Well, and what I was going to say is, Marsha's right.

00:56:43.280 There is a law in California now, and I don't know as I sit here whether it would apply there,

00:56:48.860 but it would not surprise me if there's a race between the two lawyers for whoever it is,

00:56:55.960 if they have court appointed or not, to get one to flip on the other immediately to kind

00:57:01.520 of confess all sins and get some kind of break.

00:57:06.340 And I don't know, frankly, what the break could look like.

00:57:11.380 But there will be a fight as to whether it's going to be tried in adult court or juvenile

00:57:18.200 court.

00:57:18.660 That's going to be the battle, at least initially.

00:57:21.640 I just want to ask you, like, you've both spent a lifetime in criminal law.

00:57:26.800 You look at this as a civilian and you think, I don't understand.

00:57:31.300 I'm like a serial killer has this mentality of just killing for fun with absolutely no

00:57:36.340 compassion or heart.

00:57:37.760 I don't know.

00:57:38.940 Like, Marsha, does your background as a prosecutor give you any insight into what makes two, 0.93

00:57:45.040 not one, two young men like this who can just kill for fun, absolutely, they're like sociopaths.

00:57:53.380 I mean, just absolutely no empathy on display at all. 0.96

00:57:56.940 Right, none.

00:57:58.240 And actually, Megan, the more the merrier in terms of the number of people involved, the

00:58:03.360 more likely it is they will engage in more extreme behavior as they egg each other on.

00:58:08.000 So what one guy might do by himself is probably less, usually, than what they'll do together,

00:58:13.920 which is why we have gang laws that are so stringent, even now with changes in gang laws

00:58:19.060 that we've had recently, it's still punished more heavily because it is determined that

00:58:24.540 they will act out in ways that are more extreme.

00:58:27.040 And I think this is an example of that.

00:58:28.740 You see them egging each other on ready, you know, I mean, it's really sickening to watch.

00:58:33.080 It's just awful.

00:58:34.280 But I think that that is definitely the mentality.

00:58:38.000 As for whether they wind up in adult court, I think it's a kind of a given.

00:58:42.040 I think this is going to happen.

00:58:43.080 I can't imagine they're going to try them as juveniles.

00:58:45.760 I also can't imagine the prosecutor who wants to turn one against the other.

00:58:49.860 You don't need to.

00:58:50.900 And I've always hated the idea of that. 0.97

00:58:52.920 Punish them both. 0.99

00:58:54.180 Get them both.

00:58:54.800 If you don't absolutely have to do that, turn one to get the other and don't.

00:58:59.760 I'd rather take that chance because when they both really deserve it, it's tough to justify

00:59:05.320 a deal.

00:59:06.700 And especially in a case like this where they seem very much to be equally guilty.

00:59:11.200 So yeah, it's on tape.

00:59:12.260 I mean, it's like we're both equally culpable.

00:59:15.040 So I can't leave the case, Mark, without discussing for a moment the race angle. 0.97

00:59:19.540 The two perpetrators are black. 0.96

00:59:21.940 The man they killed was white. 0.88

00:59:24.100 You and I both know if those races were reversed, this case and this videotape would be on loop

00:59:31.020 on every cable station and television station in America.

00:59:35.800 The left would be exploiting the racial divide to show us what a white supremacist country

00:59:41.100 we have.

00:59:42.080 But as it is, it has to be ignored, you know, because when the races are reversed, not only

00:59:47.460 does it not really get covered, it gets completely ignored because they can't deal with that narrative.

00:59:52.880 Well, there's, you know, the, I don't necessarily disagree. 0.99

00:59:58.740 I think that my experience, though, is that this kind of just stupidity or mental infirmity 0.99

01:00:07.580 cuts across all races and all socio classes. 0.99

01:00:13.160 It's common, unfortunately, or all too common amongst teenage youth.

01:00:19.520 And I think that the studies that we both invoke are true.

01:00:24.360 I mean, the brain just doesn't fully form and the impulse control doesn't fully form.

01:00:30.540 Yeah, but 99% of teens don't do something like this, even though they have unformed brains.

01:00:35.540 That's not the reason.

01:00:36.400 And I look, I don't disagree with you.

01:00:39.500 And I, you know, the empathy is towards somebody, as I said before, who's vintage is of mine

01:00:45.800 and who's out there on the streets every morning.

01:00:48.120 So I, I empathize.

01:00:51.420 And at the same time, I don't know that there's any explanation for what gets exploited in the

01:00:58.180 media and what doesn't get exploited in the media.

01:01:00.680 All I know is.

01:01:01.500 You don't?

01:01:01.740 I do.

01:01:02.600 I know exactly what the explanation is.

01:01:04.840 I think we all know what the explanation is.

01:01:06.400 But to Marcia's point about one on the other or turning one on the other, it never ceases

01:01:13.080 to amaze me when prosecutors choose to do that.

01:01:17.540 I sit there defending cases and wondering why it is that they picked a one particular person

01:01:24.460 who seems to me to be ostensibly or at least superficially just as culpable, if not more

01:01:30.580 so in order to roll over on somebody else.

01:01:32.800 It's one of the kind of, I think, unsightly portions of the criminal justice system.

01:01:41.660 Yeah, but they don't need it.

01:01:42.500 They don't need it.

01:01:43.320 Neither one of these guys should get any breaks for cooperating.

01:01:45.520 We don't need their cooperation.

01:01:46.600 I'm on Team Marcia, as usual, Mark.

01:01:48.980 Okay.

01:01:49.980 Let's move on.

01:01:51.720 Let's move on to Russell Brand because he's in a whole host of trouble dealing with a

01:01:56.580 PR nightmare at a minimum that may be turning into a legal nightmare.

01:02:00.200 So people know the story probably by now, but just in case you don't, three news organizations

01:02:05.200 in the UK did a years long investigation into him.

01:02:08.340 They found four women who has right now, as of now, remain anonymous, but gave very, very

01:02:12.840 specific accounts of him allegedly sexually assaulting and in one case raping them.

01:02:18.060 According to their allegations, he vehemently denies them all, though hasn't said much more

01:02:22.480 since the details of the accusations have broken.

01:02:26.040 Now we find out that the police over there in the UK are opening up an investigation.

01:02:33.320 I want to get it correct.

01:02:34.820 They have a specific unit, some extra tough unit who are that's working with Scotland Yard

01:02:43.660 detectives investigating allegations against Russell Brand, officers from Operation Hydrant,

01:02:49.940 a specialist unit that was set up in 2014, supporting the Metropolitan Police with its

01:02:55.260 investigation, urging anyone with allegations to speak to detectives.

01:02:59.620 The reporters on the case say that women are coming forward to them, more new women day

01:03:04.900 by day, and I'm sure they'll have follow up reporting on this, but they say at least so

01:03:09.480 far, one woman has allegedly, additional woman has allegedly come forward to the sexual assault

01:03:15.720 police officers and claims that there was a set.

01:03:18.680 She was sexually assaulted by Brand back in 2003. 0.90

01:03:23.540 I am trying to look for where that happened in London, in London, in Soho, in central London

01:03:29.400 in 2003.

01:03:30.360 So, I mean, it's 20 years ago.

01:03:32.520 Can I just ask?

01:03:33.140 I mean, it's, you know, I haven't been defending Russell Brand on this program.

01:03:37.240 I've been saying, let's keep an open mind because it certainly sounds like these women have 1.00

01:03:41.260 a lot of evidence.

01:03:42.460 Maybe they're lying.

01:03:43.200 We'll find out, you know, big, big celebrity.

01:03:45.300 We'll find out.

01:03:45.820 But, you know, there's no reason to knee jerk.

01:03:47.540 Just say they're not telling the truth, as I've seen so many do.

01:03:50.360 However, it's 20 years ago.

01:03:53.340 Very hard to defend against.

01:03:55.300 You know, this is what we kind of saw in Kavanaugh, right?

01:03:57.800 Justice Kavanaugh, Mark, where it was like, how's the guy supposed to produce his little,

01:04:02.760 you know, schedule?

01:04:04.340 He was such a timekeeper.

01:04:05.500 But his schedule and his whereabouts and remember all of the events 30 years ago.

01:04:09.940 This is why we have statutes of limitation.

01:04:11.980 I don't know what they are in the UK for sexual assault or rape, but he's, with respect to 0.80

01:04:16.480 the criminal investigation right now, in a very tough position.

01:04:20.100 Well, and you've hit on precisely what is so, I think, offensive about these kind of

01:04:26.500 look back statute of limitations or reinvigorating statute of limitations.

01:04:31.000 We have one now in California, as Marsha knows, the look back law, which has sparked quite

01:04:37.260 a bit of controversy.

01:04:39.240 You know, there was a case out of California many years ago, Stogner, which involved the

01:04:45.080 Catholic priest and the U.S. Supreme Court said you couldn't do it for criminal or reinvigorate

01:04:50.120 a statute of limitations that are already expired.

01:04:52.920 They left it open for civil.

01:04:54.580 We're coming on the heels of the Danny Masterson second trial after a hung jury.

01:04:59.980 We're coming on the heels of Kevin Spacey, both criminally and civilly, being accused,

01:05:05.880 having the criminal dismissed and being vindicated in the civil.

01:05:09.720 It's really a very tough situation to be in if you're the accused or defending the accused,

01:05:16.820 because one of the things that you do when you're defending people in these kinds of cases

01:05:21.780 is you do a parallel investigation.

01:05:23.580 You look for things that would corroborate.

01:05:26.980 No, I didn't do it.

01:05:27.940 No, I wasn't there.

01:05:29.200 No, it was in real time.

01:05:30.800 There was evidence that shows that there was no complaints.

01:05:34.080 And those things are very difficult to find or unearthed when you're talking about 20 years

01:05:38.100 ago.

01:05:38.480 And so I'm with you that I would keep an open mind on these things and allow them to,

01:05:45.220 at least who's defending them, to try to assemble and marshal whatever evidence they can

01:05:50.080 and try to challenge these things.

01:05:52.600 I would tell you that as reading it, I can already see where the defense is taking form.

01:05:59.600 The things they're going to have to deal with is whether they're true or not, the text messages

01:06:04.220 and things like that in real time that tend to at least support the accuser's idea that

01:06:10.700 there was an immediate recognition in real time that he had crossed the line.

01:06:15.640 That's a tough thing to have to deal with.

01:06:19.560 Yes, that's a different case.

01:06:20.980 That's well, that's one of the four accusers who came forward to the news media quietly,

01:06:24.900 anonymously, not the one who's actually appeared to have contacted the cops right now about

01:06:29.460 20 years earlier.

01:06:30.600 One of the existing accusers in that report says that I think it was 10 years ago he sexually

01:06:36.080 assaulted her in his apartment.

01:06:37.520 They were dating.

01:06:38.120 They had had consensual sex at least once prior. 0.56

01:06:40.780 And she claims he wanted her to have a threesome. 0.98

01:06:43.040 She said no.

01:06:43.860 There was another woman in the apartment. 1.00

01:06:45.040 He threw her against the wall.

01:06:46.660 He had his way with her.

01:06:48.140 And she has contemporaneous text messages complaining loudly to him about that exchange.

01:06:52.800 And then that same day she went to a rape crisis center where she reportedly got counseling

01:06:57.640 for the next five months.

01:06:59.200 She gave over her underwear, Martha, to the Martha, Marsha, to the rape crisis center and, 1.00

01:07:04.320 you know, did all the things that you would expect a rape victim to do. 0.99

01:07:08.260 Doesn't mean it was real.

01:07:09.640 Doesn't mean she's got text messages to him saying, how dare you? 0.96

01:07:12.480 You scared the shit out of me. 0.99

01:07:13.340 You're very scary. 1.00

01:07:14.080 That look in your eyes.

01:07:15.020 I've told you no, no means no.

01:07:16.460 And him not saying, what are you saying?

01:07:18.900 We had a consensual exchange.

01:07:20.800 He's he's writing back.

01:07:22.420 I'm so sorry.

01:07:23.400 Please forgive me.

01:07:24.560 But anyway, can we just go to so just to back up?

01:07:27.760 My team just did a quick Google search and it says there is no statute of limitations in

01:07:31.900 the UK for sexual assault.

01:07:33.480 So they've made a decision over there to to force men to defend these claims whenever

01:07:39.120 they arise.

01:07:40.060 I'm thinking about can you imagine if I said to you like you got to go back 20 years and

01:07:45.540 get your text messages?

01:07:47.180 Your phone just erases them after a while.

01:07:49.540 Like it's I know the cloud keeps them for some time, but I don't think if the cloud keeps

01:07:54.000 them forever.

01:07:54.880 So it's very hard to defend.

01:07:57.960 It is.

01:07:58.880 I mean, text messages can help.

01:08:01.000 And I've actually seen a number of murder cases that are proven through in part text

01:08:07.620 messages, proof of intent anyway, because they do try to delete.

01:08:11.460 Even if you try to delete messages and message to everybody, deleting does not mean it's gone

01:08:15.960 forever or even at all.

01:08:17.900 And so it may come off your phone, but that becomes almost more proof of your intent.

01:08:22.740 So text messages are a problem for the defense and they can be a really boom for the prosecution.

01:08:29.540 When it comes to the criminal prosecution of these cases that are so old, I don't know

01:08:34.520 what actually happens.

01:08:35.540 I mean, having no statute of limitations means that a woman can come forward at any time.

01:08:40.420 And I'm all for letting the victims be heard and I'm all for justice and, you know, airing

01:08:45.620 these allegations, requiring the defense to come up with their side of the story.

01:08:50.440 But I'm also in favor of fairness here.

01:08:53.540 And it's a tough thing to defend when it's been 20 years since and there's no physical

01:08:59.240 evidence to rely on.

01:09:01.080 Text messages can certainly help.

01:09:03.200 But I'm glad to see the women coming forward. 0.98

01:09:05.400 I think I go beyond the criminal and I wonder, this is a man who's been working in the BBC

01:09:12.540 and various other locations that were public.

01:09:17.160 And you're telling me that these places didn't know what he was doing?

01:09:21.040 We all know his kind of reputation, the way he behaves.

01:09:23.860 He's an outrageous kind of guy. 0.90

01:09:25.560 And that he was running around after women, sexually harassing, possibly assaulting them.

01:09:32.540 How could that not have been known to the BBC, Channel 4, et cetera?

01:09:36.540 They had to know this.

01:09:37.740 The staffers knew it.

01:09:38.700 We're getting complaints from them now.

01:09:40.280 And they did nothing.

01:09:41.960 And, you know, now they're cutting him off from now.

01:09:44.120 I mean, it's been 20 years that this has probably been going on.

01:09:47.920 So I wonder where they were.

01:09:49.280 Now, that's a civil matter, not criminal.

01:09:51.600 Well, the criminal cases, as you both noted, has its problems because of the age of the

01:09:57.700 charges.

01:09:58.420 But there's a whole bigger world to think about in terms of the workplace environment.

01:10:03.160 You know, what's crazy is it broke yesterday, Mark, that the UK government, first of all,

01:10:08.660 the prime minister's office spoke out on this case.

01:10:11.740 The prime minister sent a spokesperson out there to say, oh, a sexual assault is terrible.

01:10:16.420 Any woman affected should speak out, including on the Russell Brand case.

01:10:20.240 My God, what?

01:10:21.780 Right.

01:10:22.100 We just have allegations.

01:10:23.300 We don't he's he probably just hired a lawyer two minutes ago.

01:10:27.460 And the UK parliament is trying to get Russell Brand canceled everywhere.

01:10:34.880 They've reached out, at least we know, to Rumble.

01:10:38.420 I think also YouTube to Twitter, you know, now X like they're they're trying to make sure

01:10:44.080 that his revenue streams are shut down.

01:10:47.040 You could not do that in this country.

01:10:48.960 Thank God that would be unconstitutional.

01:10:51.580 I don't know if you couldn't do that in this country.

01:10:53.740 Take a look at that Fifth Circuit opinion, which I'm sure you read as to what the White 0.99

01:10:59.620 House was doing with.

01:11:01.640 And they haven't tried.

01:11:03.780 Right.

01:11:04.380 Yeah.

01:11:04.700 But you're not allowed to.

01:11:06.100 Thank God.

01:11:06.600 You know, the Fifth Circuit said, hello, that's not that's not appropriate and was really dystopian.

01:11:11.060 The Fifth Circuit was alarmed at what this White House was doing on COVID and so on.

01:11:14.840 But it's amazing, right?

01:11:16.380 It's just like a gut check when you see the UK government actually reaching out to Rumble

01:11:19.880 to say, we want to make sure he's demonetized that he's what are you what what?

01:11:24.720 And thank God Rumble said it's a no.

01:11:27.100 Well, it's really we've reached a point here and I we find it, I find it at least doing

01:11:33.180 this for almost 40 or actually more than 40 years.

01:11:36.100 I cannot believe the the way that this becomes kind of a snowball rolling down a hill.

01:11:45.680 I was going to say something else and I stopped myself.

01:11:48.540 But the the problem that you face now is not only does it go from zero to 100 in time, in

01:11:57.980 the amount of time that it takes to even sign a retainer agreement with somebody.

01:12:02.320 But before you know it, it is just metastasized everywhere.

01:12:07.300 And you're fighting a what used to be a battle that would be in a courtroom and maybe in print

01:12:14.280 media and maybe in a couple of outlets.

01:12:16.620 It now is everywhere and it's a full scale attack on your ability to make money or to

01:12:22.900 at least survive or your resources.

01:12:25.500 I mean, people call it cancellation or cancel culture.

01:12:29.180 I mean, it really is just a full scale assault.

01:12:32.940 I mean, it's not just to cancel you. 0.95

01:12:35.220 It is to obliterate you.

01:12:37.340 And that's a it's a scary place because I invoked some of the people who end up getting exonerated.

01:12:45.160 And it reminds me of that quote from I think he was the former labor head of the Department

01:12:51.900 of Labor Donovan, the original Ray Donovan, as I always say, who after he was acquitted,

01:12:57.520 was on the steps of the courthouse saying, now, where do I go to get my reputation back?

01:13:02.100 It's a very difficult thing.

01:13:04.160 And you don't see people saying, I'm sorry, we jumped the gun later on or after the fact.

01:13:10.420 You know, Marsha, I've been critical of Russell Brand.

01:13:14.640 I think these allegations are so detailed that they really are troubling to me.

01:13:19.780 And I will not be subscribing to Russell Brand's Rumble channel at all.

01:13:24.260 It's over for me.

01:13:25.320 I'm out.

01:13:25.880 I personally am demonetizing the Megyn Kelly dollars, which actually weren't there in the

01:13:30.200 first place.

01:13:30.860 But I don't want to see the guy's ability to make money or connect with his existing

01:13:35.480 audience that feels differently than I do removed.

01:13:38.960 Right.

01:13:39.200 And that's that's where we are right now.

01:13:41.380 I mean, Rumble, thank God, was kind of born to fight back against this kind of madness.

01:13:44.920 And they're they're holding true to their mission.

01:13:48.300 But I do wonder, like, we don't know whether these cases are going to pan out.

01:13:53.700 My feeling is they're probably not going to go anywhere because the four main women don't 1.00

01:13:58.760 seem to want anything done.

01:14:00.100 They do not want their names dragged into this for all the obvious reasons.

01:14:03.420 And so Russell Brand, I don't he's in a tough position to rehabilitate himself, but I don't

01:14:08.920 see many legal consequences coming his way.

01:14:11.700 And they're really there'll be nothing for him to do to, quote, get his reputation back.

01:14:15.760 People will be left with the original reports and they'll make up their minds one way or

01:14:19.160 the other.

01:14:20.580 True.

01:14:21.060 And this kind of stuff, really, it always bothers me when you have allegations that can't

01:14:25.280 be proven or disproven and then it just kind of hangs in the air.

01:14:28.360 And, you know, if you're going to bring out this kind of these accusations, then they should

01:14:33.280 also have the right or the demand to prove them or disprove them and let people have a

01:14:38.580 conclusion one way or another.

01:14:39.920 I don't like and I implore, I think, as Mark does, the notion that you have an accusation

01:14:44.980 floating around.

01:14:46.020 It eventually is disproven and then nobody reports on that.

01:14:49.920 So you have this big accusation and it's very inflammatory and it gets lots of press.

01:14:54.400 And at the end of the day, it kind of dribbles out and the press goes away.

01:14:58.680 And the ultimate determination is it wasn't true, but nobody publicizes that.

01:15:03.560 And that I don't like that injustice.

01:15:05.240 I don't like that unfairness.

01:15:06.780 I also am not a fan of this kind of piling on where, OK, everybody run and cancel so and

01:15:12.220 so.

01:15:12.780 And so you have, as you've said, in the UK, that's kind of surprising that you actually

01:15:16.720 have prime minister saying, you know, demonetize this guy.

01:15:20.260 Do not put him on the air.

01:15:21.460 Don't let him, you know, speak publicly.

01:15:23.880 Now you're getting into free speech.

01:15:25.340 Now you're getting into an area where you're not even allowing the accused to defend himself.

01:15:30.340 So, you know, I like balance.

01:15:32.760 I like fairness.

01:15:33.940 I want the victims to be able to be heard.

01:15:36.300 I want the defendant to have his say as well.

01:15:38.400 I want us to be able to decide what we think and make our, you know, and put our money accordingly

01:15:43.740 into whether we want Rumble or whatever.

01:15:46.140 If you want to listen to Russell Brand, you should be able to listen to him.

01:15:49.400 No one's forcing you to subscribe to Rumble.

01:15:52.880 Nobody's forcing you to listen to his apology.

01:15:54.840 But you should be able to if you want to.

01:15:58.060 And I think that's where I draw the line.

01:16:00.160 You know, everybody should be heard.

01:16:01.940 For the very reason that you talked about the BBC knowing or Channel 4 knowing, that

01:16:08.160 is the very reason why there are going to be civil lawsuits.

01:16:12.180 There are going to be lawsuits that are going to attack the entities for not doing more or

01:16:18.640 saying more or stopping.

01:16:20.140 And that's where the immediate battle for your field is going to be.

01:16:24.600 There's definitely going to be more.

01:16:25.720 But shouldn't it be?

01:16:26.600 But shouldn't it be?

01:16:27.640 I mean, to me, that's the bigger and more serious issue in terms of what's really going

01:16:32.920 to happen in litigation in terms of really, you know, airing the truth here on both sides

01:16:38.000 is, you know, what was going on in these networks?

01:16:40.460 They're all piling on now.

01:16:42.120 Where have you been?

01:16:43.440 So you're really telling me that you didn't know he was chasing women around the dressing

01:16:47.320 room before exposing himself, doing whatever.

01:16:50.380 This is not something that just happened yesterday.

01:16:52.840 And you knew about it.

01:16:54.240 So one of the allegations, Marcia, was that he took out a like some sort of a Coke bottle

01:17:01.100 or whatever and peed in it right in front of the staff. 0.96

01:17:03.520 That's we exposed himself and urinated in front of his staff.

01:17:06.880 So it's a problem.

01:17:07.620 And the minor.

01:17:08.060 It's a problem.

01:17:08.260 And the minor.

01:17:09.680 Yeah.

01:17:10.200 The minor is the one that where he lost me. 0.92

01:17:12.160 That if that's true, if he had sex with a 16 year old when he's 31, I couldn't care

01:17:16.160 less whether it's legal. 0.99

01:17:17.060 It's disgusting. 0.96

01:17:17.960 It's dishonorable. 0.95

01:17:18.680 And it's over between the two of us.

01:17:20.380 If that is, I wait to see what he has to say. 0.99

01:17:23.100 If he doesn't deny that wholesale, I am done with this scumbag. 0.99

01:17:27.900 That's where I am on it. 0.98

01:17:29.620 But I'll say this.

01:17:31.240 Now, I understand the women's need for anonymity because 100 percent they're going to be raked 1.00

01:17:35.880 over the coals if they come out, especially now.

01:17:38.000 He's very popular.

01:17:39.380 He's got a very vocal base of fans.

01:17:42.320 So I get their fear.

01:17:43.940 But I was in a not totally dissimilar situation years ago when, you know, Roger Ailes was under

01:17:52.660 question.

01:17:54.000 They didn't know that an allegation had been made against him.

01:17:56.640 And the question was, is he this thing?

01:17:58.380 Is he a sexual harasser?

01:17:59.420 And I had information about that question.

01:18:02.660 And I chose to speak to my boss, Lachlan Murdoch, about it.

01:18:06.400 And then he asked me if I would speak with Paul Weiss, the lawyers who he got in to investigate.

01:18:10.560 And I remember asking, will it will it become public?

01:18:15.460 Like, will will he know that I spoke to them?

01:18:19.180 And he said, probably.

01:18:21.400 And I talked to my own lawyer about it.

01:18:23.380 And my lawyer said he's going to know.

01:18:25.940 And my lawyer said to me, this is my lawyer, said, and that's what's fair.

01:18:31.580 He deserves to know who his accusers are.

01:18:34.480 He deserves the chance to say, it's not true.

01:18:37.820 I didn't do it.

01:18:38.980 Here's my proof that none of this is real.

01:18:41.480 And even I, as somebody who felt like I was betraying a boss I cared about by this point,

01:18:48.360 understood if I was going to make these allegations, I had to attach my name to them.

01:18:53.460 That they're, you know, anonymity from him, from the press is a different story.

01:18:57.160 OK, whatever.

01:18:57.760 But anonymity from him was not an OK place to land.

01:19:02.320 He deserved the chance to hear.

01:19:03.680 I was saying that's a tribute to your lawyer, by the way.

01:19:08.420 Yeah.

01:19:08.920 Willis Goldsmith, Jones Day.

01:19:10.520 It was my old boss.

01:19:12.360 And to you, Megan.

01:19:13.820 Oh, thank you.

01:19:15.500 Well, it is to make it for listening.

01:19:18.760 And it's a tribute to the lawyer to understand that we have a system.

01:19:22.560 And you get to, you get a presumption and you have to process, as opposed to sometimes

01:19:27.300 when you see lawyers who kind of are a cheerleader for the rush to judgment, for lack of a better

01:19:34.360 term, and do not counsel their client appropriately.

01:19:38.860 Yeah.

01:19:39.260 And in that case, Marcia, you, you, as like a prosecutor, you would have been thrilled

01:19:43.760 because they, Paul Weiss, they wanted all the evidence.

01:19:47.720 They came to my house.

01:19:48.900 They came to my apartment and they wanted to see the, because I'm a journal keeper.

01:19:52.640 And I had tons of entries from that time.

01:19:55.200 It was a very unsteady period for me professionally.

01:19:57.820 I was very scared about what he was going to do.

01:19:59.980 And they wanted to see all the journals because they wanted to see that and show them every

01:20:03.980 journal I ever wrote, but they just wanted to see them to see if, in fact, I'd been keeping

01:20:07.420 them regularly or if I had just been, you know, trying to make a record to get him.

01:20:10.560 And I did show them all the entries that revolved around Roger and they copied them and they took

01:20:15.800 them.

01:20:16.720 And that same lawyer at Jones Day, I had called him the moment after Roger.

01:20:21.480 Now I wrote about it in my book, whatever, but he tried to kiss me three times in his office.

01:20:24.780 And when I wouldn't let him have me asked, when is your contract up? 0.99

01:20:29.920 And before I had even left the building, I called my lawyer and said, holy shit. 0.98

01:20:36.260 So like I did make a record and any woman in this position should make a record. 1.00

01:20:40.440 You know, it's not like it's going to sink you or not or sink him, but better to have it,

01:20:44.740 Marsha, better to have it. 1.00

01:20:46.540 Oh, for sure.

01:20:47.120 You know, anything you can, you can put together, you know, in the moment, you know,

01:20:50.680 that's why we have fresh complaint witnesses here in the States with respect to all of the,

01:20:56.520 any kind of sexual assault charge.

01:20:58.400 If you have someone that you spoke to immediately afterwards while you're distraught, crying and

01:21:03.580 in pain, whatever, that witness is a very important corroboration, you know, who says

01:21:08.460 within minutes or within an hour, she was on the phone to me and she was a wreck. 1.00

01:21:13.500 These things are very helpful, a journal even more so that, you know, showing that you wrote

01:21:18.600 it down immediately shows that this was not just, oh, buyer's remorse.

01:21:22.000 He wasn't nice to me the next day.

01:21:24.080 You know, I mean, that, that shows the, that, you know, the authenticity of it.

01:21:27.480 And I think it is brave of you to come forward when you know your job is on the line.

01:21:31.600 You know, it's, it's not, it's not only that, you know, you get, you get your name pulled

01:21:35.520 into something that is not pleasant, but it's also that your very career is, is in jeopardy

01:21:41.480 as a result of coming forward.

01:21:43.260 And that is what it takes that kind of bravery to hold someone accountable who is a, you

01:21:48.960 know, an assaulter, who is somebody, an attacker, that's a dangerous person to have around and

01:21:54.260 a very, it's bad for every, it's bad for morale in general for everyone, but particularly

01:21:59.040 for women.

01:22:00.120 Well, and this one woman we talked about who went to the rape crisis center did produce 1.00

01:22:05.260 multiple female friends, I think, who she told about this immediately.

01:22:11.140 So it wasn't, she did have contemporaneous witnesses, not eyewitnesses, but witnesses,

01:22:16.360 the rape crisis center, the evidence she had turned over five months of therapy.

01:22:19.420 She gave him the notes.

01:22:20.400 I mean, it's a pretty lengthy record.

01:22:22.300 What actually happened, that's to be explored.

01:22:25.180 She says it was a rape. 0.68

01:22:26.440 The text message exchange could lead one to say it was, it was sex without a condom, which

01:22:31.940 she very clearly had not consented to.

01:22:34.040 That also could be problematic legally.

01:22:35.920 You know, we're down a deep, dark rabbit hole that I don't want anything to do.

01:22:42.400 I just, I'm over Russell Brand.

01:22:43.700 I've heard enough to know I'm not his fan.

01:22:45.740 Good enough.

01:22:46.460 Okay.

01:22:46.860 Next, we're going to get into Kohlberger and Alec Murdoch.

01:22:49.640 Don't go away.

01:22:50.160 More with Marsha and Mark right after this.

01:22:52.140 There is an update in the Idaho quadruple murder case against Brian Kohlberger.

01:23:01.840 A couple of them, actually.

01:23:03.280 48 Hours did a good piece this past Saturday.

01:23:07.100 And Howard Bloom was on there.

01:23:08.940 He's the one who's been writing for airmail on this case.

01:23:10.900 He was spent on this program.

01:23:11.960 Just very good reporting on the whole thing.

01:23:14.180 But in any event, there they spoke with the parents of Kaylee Gonzalez, and they came out

01:23:22.980 to say, contrary to what we'd heard from the defense, who'd been saying there was no

01:23:29.160 connection between Brian Kohlberger, who's been accused of the murders.

01:23:32.500 They happened last November on the Idaho campus.

01:23:34.700 He was at the neighboring campus, Washington State, studying criminology.

01:23:38.260 His lawyer says no connection between them.

01:23:40.160 Um, they're saying there, there was a connection in that they've figured out he was following

01:23:46.300 them, um, on Instagram.

01:23:49.320 Uh, so there's Kaylee Gonzalez and her best friend, Matt, Maddie Mogan.

01:23:53.140 They were the two who were killed in the bed together.

01:23:55.600 They were lifetime close best friends.

01:23:57.680 And here's what they said to CBS.

01:24:00.900 They just told us the name and we immediately started Googling.

01:24:04.800 They believe they had found a possible connection through Instagram.

01:24:09.120 And he immediately took these screenshots from our investigation of the account.

01:24:15.100 It appeared to be the real Brian Kohlberger account.

01:24:18.500 Among the people this account was following were Maddie Mogan and Kaylee Gonzalez.

01:24:24.420 In addition to several people with the name Kohlberger.

01:24:28.440 You would go to Maddie's Instagram account and look at her pictures and he liked them.

01:24:34.380 Brian, Brian's name was under a lot of Maddie's pictures, like that picture and that picture

01:24:38.560 and that picture and that picture.

01:24:39.820 So he was actively looking at the Instagram account.

01:24:44.360 And the importance of that is what?

01:24:46.800 Just digital evidence that this particular account had some type of connection with the,

01:24:51.820 with the victims.

01:24:52.500 Marsha, it's very creepy, especially when, you know, he killed those two young women, allegedly,

01:25:00.760 found them in the same room, in the same bed.

01:25:04.200 They said that Maddie was on the outside, that Kaylee was on the inside, and that it looks like,

01:25:11.180 you know, these girls had no chance. 1.00

01:25:13.300 I mean, he basically snuck up on them in their sleep and they had very little chance.

01:25:16.540 Although Gonsalves tried to fight because it looks like her friend Maddie, who was on the outside, 0.54

01:25:21.220 was killed first.

01:25:22.720 I mean, you just think about the terror that these poor two girls and the one knowing her 0.77

01:25:26.320 best friend is being murdered next to her. 0.76

01:25:29.580 So I do think that it matters that those were the two he was allegedly following online.

01:25:34.660 What do you think?

01:25:36.180 Yeah.

01:25:36.900 Any connection you can show that, that somehow begins to explain why he round up at that

01:25:43.640 particular location in that room, going after those particular women is going to be helpful 1.00

01:25:48.880 because this is one of these bizarre, no motive, no obvious motive murders.

01:25:55.860 And so anything you can show that shows a pre, a pre-existing attraction or interest in the

01:26:02.060 victim is a connection that's a very important one.

01:26:04.860 And I think that if this pans out and it turns out to be that the Instagram post that they're,

01:26:11.740 the handle that they're looking at is actually Kohlbergers, that will be some very important

01:26:17.000 evidence, I think, showing the connection.

01:26:19.580 Do you agree, Mark?

01:26:21.540 No, I was going to say, Marcia hit the nail on the head if it pans out.

01:26:25.120 I mean, number one, we don't know when it was that they saw this.

01:26:28.540 We don't know.

01:26:29.020 They took screenshots, which should suggest that it's no longer there.

01:26:33.620 We don't know if it was his account.

01:26:35.320 We don't know if there was somebody on the Internet forming an account or starting an

01:26:40.980 account and then liking the pictures and then having the account removed later on.

01:26:45.860 It wouldn't surprise me that that could happen.

01:26:51.480 And I think you just got to wait and see if this is, in fact, legit or not.

01:26:56.160 All right.

01:26:56.860 Now, this trial is supposed to begin October 2nd, you know, right around the corner.

01:27:01.920 But it's it's been out and delayed indefinitely.

01:27:04.600 He's waived his right to a speedy trial, so he wants more time to prepare.

01:27:08.040 But one of the things that's really interesting is they're debating whether there should be

01:27:11.020 cameras in the courtroom.

01:27:12.380 Marcia Clark, of all days to have you.

01:27:14.620 This is the day they the norm would be.

01:27:18.700 Yes, they have them.

01:27:19.680 That's why we've seen all the videotape of Brian Kohlberger in the courtroom on his arraignment

01:27:24.860 and so on.

01:27:25.560 And the defense, Kohlberger, is seeking to ban the cameras to stop the media.

01:27:32.320 I mean, it's very strange. 0.91

01:27:33.680 He's saying he the media has been focusing on his crotch, according to his lawyer. 0.70

01:27:38.260 OK, they want the cameras banned.

01:27:41.580 And the prosecutor joined saying we, too, want the cameras banned.

01:27:46.140 But the families of the victims, at least the Gonsalveses and the Cronoidal families, say

01:27:51.480 we want the cameras there.

01:27:52.700 The public deserves to know, especially in a death penalty case, what the evidence is.

01:27:57.860 So this was a post-trial discussion that I had with Fred Goldman, because I had been

01:28:04.640 very opposed to having cameras in the courtroom.

01:28:06.880 The downsides are huge.

01:28:09.480 You know, the problem that you face, of course, is that it turns into a circus.

01:28:12.860 Now, in fairness, if you have a judge who knows how to keep the guardrails on, it can

01:28:18.100 be fine.

01:28:18.680 But if he doesn't and he just lets the cameras, you know, be turned on 24-7, it's a nightmare.

01:28:24.980 And you wind up having people come forward who just want the limelight and really have

01:28:28.460 nothing to say.

01:28:29.460 Or you have people that are afraid of the limelight and have something to say and don't

01:28:33.240 want to come forward.

01:28:34.380 You have lawyers who are, you know, stumping for camera time and FaceTime and, you know,

01:28:39.720 and extending things interminably with no real argument to make because they want to be

01:28:44.900 famous.

01:28:45.520 You have prosecutors who probably do the same thing in some instances.

01:28:49.940 And, you know, you have a judge who sits down for a six-part interview with the news

01:28:54.000 anchor to talk about his life and his past.

01:28:57.180 So I don't know where I pulled that one from.

01:28:59.920 So I do.

01:29:01.940 So, I mean, it causes these kinds of distortions and it does cause a circus.

01:29:06.840 So, you know, I understand the problem.

01:29:08.580 And Fred Goldman said, and he changed my mind, but the world would never know what the evidence

01:29:15.520 really was.

01:29:16.480 The world would never know and bother to read the newspapers after the fact about all of

01:29:20.660 the evidence that we were able to produce.

01:29:22.700 Huge, a huge overwhelming amount of evidence of guilt.

01:29:25.720 He was right.

01:29:26.880 You know, if you have these people moving around in the courtroom, people pay attention in a

01:29:30.520 different way.

01:29:31.860 So, you know, I've come down on the side of having a certain kind of thing where you allow

01:29:37.280 the cameras in the courtroom when the jury is in the courtroom so that what is disseminated

01:29:41.480 to the public is what the jury sees.

01:29:43.700 But when the jury is not there and you're having hearings about the evidence that should

01:29:47.500 and should not come in, et cetera, that kind of thing, then you should not have cameras

01:29:51.500 in the courtroom.

01:29:52.140 You can have print reporters.

01:29:53.360 That's fine.

01:29:54.240 But having the cameras in the courtroom should be banned when the jury's not there.

01:29:58.300 And with that kind of caveat, I think it's a good thing.

01:30:02.400 Mark, the judge was looking at Marsha's most famous case, People v. O.J. Simpson, when she

01:30:06.840 was the prosecutor, and saying whether having asking whether cameras in the courtroom is

01:30:12.700 a dignified way to have a trial, referring to the O.J. Simpson trial, calling it, quote,

01:30:16.140 a circus, as she just said, and then adding it's not the same media it is now as it was

01:30:21.140 10 years ago, thanks to social media.

01:30:23.580 So I don't know if that means the judge is leaning against having the cameras, but you

01:30:27.600 can bet there's a bunch of news outlets in there arguing, oh, no, the cameras need to 0.97

01:30:31.620 stay.

01:30:31.860 You know, it's so funny.

01:30:34.620 As long as I've known Marsha, which I won't even say how long, I've never heard her talk

01:30:39.860 about Fred Goldman's reaction to it.

01:30:42.860 Because I, during Peterson, Marsha and I sharing our notable cases here, I joined in the prosecution

01:30:52.400 saying who did not want cameras in the courtroom.

01:30:56.140 I have said to you, Megan, that was one of my biggest mistakes.

01:31:00.540 I wanted the public to see what that trial looked like after the fact, because during

01:31:07.080 the trial, I thought that there were people sitting in New York City commenting on the

01:31:12.320 trial who had no idea what was going on in the courtroom.

01:31:16.040 And if they had seen it, it would not have been the kind of critical mass that he's guilty,

01:31:23.580 so to speak.

01:31:25.080 And that was one of the biggest mistakes I've made in that case, I think, that not having

01:31:31.500 cameras in the courtroom.

01:31:33.060 But to your point, how does the judge taking this in Kohlberger?

01:31:37.000 I think the judge is clearly leaning towards not having cameras in the courtroom.

01:31:42.480 Because it's a lot to manage for a judicial officer.

01:31:47.620 But just for the record, Scott Peterson was definitely guilty.

01:31:49.980 Yeah, that's, you know, he mentioned social media, that is a fear, because social media

01:31:55.400 becomes kind of its own mouthpiece.

01:31:58.240 And then it's a just, it can be a very distorting mouthpiece.

01:32:01.740 So somebody repeats on social media, let's say their sub stack, your blog, whatever it

01:32:05.520 might be, and puts out, this is what happened in court today, but it's not.

01:32:09.660 And they don't get it right.

01:32:10.620 And they don't necessarily understand what they're watching.

01:32:12.820 And that creates a distortion that actually disserves the public.

01:32:16.820 So there's that to worry about now that wasn't true in Simpson times, or even Peterson times

01:32:22.660 as much.

01:32:23.000 I'll tell you, I've said this before recently, I watched quite a bit of the Paxton impeachment

01:32:30.620 trial, which was televised.

01:32:33.180 I mean, you couldn't, it wasn't being covered as extensively, I think, as you might have expected.

01:32:39.100 But I thought it was fascinating to actually watch that, because the way that trial was

01:32:44.680 portrayed in the media, and actually watching what happened on the floor of the Texas Senate,

01:32:53.720 I thought were there was a disconnect.

01:32:55.720 And it was just wild to me to watch what was happening in social media versus what was actually

01:33:02.060 happening on the floor of the Senate.

01:33:03.840 How did you think?

01:33:04.680 I mean, he was acquitted.

01:33:05.400 And I mean, maybe I just followed social media, but the social media I saw was like,

01:33:09.980 his lawyers are crushing it.

01:33:12.160 Did you think they did crush it?

01:33:14.200 I mean, obviously, he was acquitted.

01:33:15.680 You've got a different feed than I do.

01:33:18.020 So I'll give you that.

01:33:19.620 My feed was not, obviously, people who were not watching it, because his lawyers were crushing

01:33:25.600 it.

01:33:25.860 Mind you, I know most of the lawyers involved in, it was an all-star cast of Texas legal

01:33:32.040 luminaries.

01:33:32.860 But the defense, I think, just decimated the prosecution in that case.

01:33:38.360 I just clicked on just a couple of the cross-examinations, and they were effective.

01:33:42.520 Now, before we go, I got to touch on Murdoch.

01:33:44.920 Alec Murdoch may get a new trial because the court clerk in the case is alleged to have

01:33:49.900 messed with the jurors, telling them these are the allegations.

01:33:53.740 Don't be fooled when Alec Murdoch takes the stand.

01:33:57.780 Don't get drawn in.

01:33:58.880 I mean, obviously, blatantly inappropriate things if, in fact, she did it. 0.99

01:34:03.120 She was like this cheery court clerk who sort of became a star with a lawyer as well. 0.56

01:34:06.640 Apparently, she was a little too friendly, a little too close to the jurors, or so says 0.67

01:34:10.420 the defense, and a couple jurors who've signed sworn affidavits saying she did this stuff.

01:34:16.140 Now, you have the prosecution weighing in saying it's not true.

01:34:19.360 They've apparently found some, I don't know, four other jurors who are now represented by

01:34:23.300 this guy, Eric Bland, who's not a prosecutor in the case, saying she was totally appropriate.

01:34:29.600 That doesn't necessarily mean she was not inappropriate with other jurors, but he may or may not get

01:34:35.820 a new trial.

01:34:36.240 So I'm wondering whether you think he will, and will it be impacted, the judge's decision

01:34:40.540 by the fact that he just pleaded guilty to, I think, 22 federal charges in connection with

01:34:45.740 his financial misdeeds, and they each, I think, carry a maximum punishment of 20 years in prison.

01:34:53.040 So, I mean, does that make the judge say, we're not retrying this, forget it?

01:34:57.420 Or what?

01:34:57.760 I don't know.

01:34:58.100 You tell me quickly in the time we have, Marsha.

01:34:59.700 Yeah, he may.

01:35:02.100 I don't think so.

01:35:03.000 I don't think the charges have to do with fraud and defrauding his personal injury clients

01:35:07.360 and probably commingling of funds, stealing from them, et cetera, but not murder.

01:35:11.500 So it may not have an impact.

01:35:13.540 We'll see.

01:35:14.320 I mean, this is really, we've got to see how these jurors affidavits shake out.

01:35:17.620 It doesn't help that the clerk also wrote a book about the trial.

01:35:20.940 So kind of inappropriate.

01:35:23.740 Go ahead, Mark.

01:35:24.500 He's got enough to get a hearing, and then when somebody's under oath, we'll see what

01:35:29.600 actually happens.

01:35:30.480 I'm with Marsha, though.

01:35:31.500 I'll tell you, the fact that she wrote a book, I think, gives a lot of people pause, especially

01:35:37.720 when you're an elected clerk.

01:35:39.800 And the fact, to you, Megan, there is something maybe in the back of a judge who said that says

01:35:45.440 they're going to get a ton of years anyway, so what the heck, I might as well do the hearing.

01:35:51.540 Yeah, exactly.

01:35:52.300 So it's like, this guy's going to jail forever, might as well look like I'm fair, give him

01:35:55.840 the hearing, and then let it be somebody else's problem.

01:35:59.540 Mark, Marsha, so good to see you.

01:36:01.720 Thank you both so much for being here.

01:36:03.680 Always a pleasure.

01:36:04.660 Thank you.

01:36:05.420 All right.

01:36:05.760 Now I want to tell the audience before we go, big guest tomorrow.

01:36:08.060 So excited to welcome back to the program, Dan Fongino.

01:36:11.860 Yes.

01:36:12.480 Can't wait for that discussion.

01:36:13.720 What a week.

01:36:14.420 Hope you'll join us.

01:36:19.200 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

01:36:21.040 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:36:32.420 Thank you.

The Megyn Kelly Show - September 21, 2023

Dems Politicizing and Undermining Institutions, and Cameras in Kohberger Courtroom, with Mark Levin, Marcia Clark, and Mark Geragos ｜ Ep. 632

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