Dems Try To Buy a New Joe Rogan, and Deadly Anti-Israel Terror Attack in D.C, with Michael Knowles and Ana Kasparian ｜ Ep. 1078
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 47 minutes
Summary
Jeroen Lashinsky and Sarah Milgram were shot and killed outside the Jewish Museum in Washington, D.C. by an alleged anti-Israel man yelling a chant heard for years on liberal college campuses and streets of major cities: Free, Free Palestine. Also, there is only one solution, Intifada Revolution.
Transcript
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Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.
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Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.
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Two young Israeli embassy staffers murdered by an anti-Israel man yelling a chant heard for years now on liberal college campuses and streets of major cities.
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Also, there is only one solution, Intifada Revolution.
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It happened last night around 9 p.m. outside the Jewish Museum in Washington, D.C.
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According to eyewitnesses, the alleged gunman, Elias Rodriguez, was seen sitting calmly on a bench outside of the event and then pacing back and forth.
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He approached a group of people leaving the museum and shot two of them at close range.
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Rodriguez then calmly walked back inside the museum.
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And in the chaos of the scene, people initially thought he was a victim.
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Another witness described those moments to Fox 5 local in D.C.
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The security guard happened to let this guy in.
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I guess they were thinking that he was a victim.
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And, you know, some of the people at the event brought him water.
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And he's like, he's like, somebody call the cops, bring the cops in.
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So about 10 minutes later, when the cops actually came in, he put his hands up.
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He grabbed a red coffee out of his pocket and started the free Palestine chants.
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You know, there's only one solution, Intifada revolution.
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And he was being dragged out of the building as he was yelling, free Palestine.
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While he was being arrested, the shooter could again be heard screaming, free Palestine.
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The victims were 28-year-old Jeroen Lashinsky and his girlfriend, Sarah Milgram.
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Jeroen reportedly had apparently planned to propose to Sarah next week during a trip to Jerusalem.
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He's got an online biography that says he was born and raised in Chicago.
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His LinkedIn profile says he graduated from the University of Illinois, Chicago.
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The Daily Mail and New York Post report that in the past, Rodriguez was involved in activism with the Party for Socialism and Liberation, not to mention Black Lives Matter.
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The Party for Socialism is a far-left group that regularly posts anti-Israel rhetoric.
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The group confirmed Rodriguez's membership online but distanced itself from the shooting, stating,
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we have nothing to do with the shooting and do not support it.
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However, a few hours earlier, the group had tweeted, the world will not forget the crimes of the U.S. and Israel.
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In 2017, this guy participated in a BLM-led protest regarding the 2014 police-involved shooting of Laquan McDonald
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and Chicago's efforts to bring Amazon's headquarters to the city.
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The sign Rodriguez held up said, red, money for people's needs, not Amazon.
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In an interview, Rodriguez said, whitening of Seattle is structurally racist and a direct danger to all workers who live in that city.
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According to the Jerusalem Post, Rodriguez made a political donation to the Joe Biden campaign in 2020.
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A short time ago, Ken Klippenstein, an independent journalist who used to work for The Intercept, posted to his own website, Rodriguez's alleged manifesto.
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Please understand, these sometimes turn out to be not the manifesto, but in it, Klippenstein writes, quote,
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I am publishing it here not to glorify the violence, but so the public can better understand the truth of what happened.
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I believe that sunlight is the best disinfectant, especially when politics is involved, as the document makes clear is the case here.
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But the alleged manifesto, again, heavy caveat here.
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I've covered so many of these damn fucking shootings, and we often turn out to have what's allegedly a manifesto, and it's not the manifesto.
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In any event, this one reads, take it for what it's worth, public opinion has shifted against the genocidal apartheid state, and the American government has simply shrugged.
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They'll do without public opinion then, criminalize it where they can, suffocate it with bland reassurances, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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He was very anti-Israel, and his own statements on site made that pretty clear.
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Before we welcome our guest, Michael Knowles, to talk about this story, there was an extraordinary moment on CNN this morning.
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Another eyewitness to the shooting went on to describe what he saw, and he had a blunt take on the shooting and how it ties into what we've seen on so many of these college campuses.
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You can see she's very uncomfortable with him making this tie.
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As you go forward, as you go forward with what you have seen, can you give us any sense, because you said you looked the shooter in the eyes, can you give us any sense of what you saw in him as he was sort of getting help, and people were tending to him as if he too was a victim of seeing this?
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Yeah, to be clear, I, like, heard about that part, because we were in a secure room when he initially walked in.
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I just saw him screaming and then being handcuffed.
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But what I saw in his eyes, I mean, I went to Columbia for grad school, and I saw the same thing in his eyes as I saw in the eyes of all the protesters at Columbia.
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But they did not create this horrific shooting.
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They did not, you know, sort of, they didn't shoot.
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They have called for intifada revolution, which is the same thing he yelled last night.
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Do you worry that there will be a conflation, though, of the two, those people who are speaking their mind, who really care about what is happening in Gaza, and those people who are like this person, who did this horrific shooting, who intend to do harm?
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At Columbia University, they call for intifada constantly.
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That is not what you ask the fucking eyewitness.
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Oh, she's so worried about the tie he's making to the violence that was just unleashed against two people walking out of this Israel event.
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And what we're hearing on college campuses, literally calling for an intifada against anybody who's pro-Israel.
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No one's saying, Sarah Sider, that they caused it, that they made this guy do it.
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And, you know, Jewish people are getting a little sick of college campuses allowing these people to run around calling for their murder.
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But she's so, she recoils at him making the connection.
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No one's saying that the people on the College of Columbia directly caused that guy to unleash this violence.
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But it would be asinine to not note this is exactly the same rhetoric we're hearing on these far-left college campuses from coast to coast.
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But you're not allowed to make that connection on CNN, Michael.
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You're not allowed to say, gee, I don't really like these chants being allowed everywhere because it's endorsing something that, you know what, kind of feels a little genocide-y, kind of feels a little murder-y.
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And now we've had two pro-Israel Israeli embassy workers killed.
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Are you worried about the conflation of these two groups of people?
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Well, they're saying the same thing and they say that they want the same thing.
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So, yeah, I think we could probably conflate them.
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That CNN lady did an earnest performance of a Norm Macdonald comedy bit.
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There's a great Norm Macdonald bit where he says, my greatest fear is that Muslim radicals will get a dirty bomb and set it off in a major city and kill tens of millions of people because then the backlash against peaceful Muslims would be terrible.
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And the CNN lady is performing that as though it were earnest.
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You know, this is the conclusion of the Free Palestine stuff.
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I talked about this on my show yesterday or two days ago.
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I just can't get on board with the Free Palestine movement because I've yet to hear a coherent argument as to how what they want makes any sense.
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I've yet to hear a coherent argument that the state of Israel is not justified in going to war in Gaza or even continuing the war because the hostages are still being held.
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I've yet to hear a coherent argument for bringing this movement into the right wing coalition.
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And I know that there are some people who are a little more favorable to the Free Palestine thing.
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But I said just as a basic matter of political coalitions, the Free Palestine movement is led by frothing leftist lunatics who are inclined toward violence.
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The Free Palestine movement is led by Greta Thunberg and the Columbia graduate students and Islamists.
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Somehow the Islamists are the most sensible people in the movement.
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It doesn't take a political philosopher to realize that the logical conclusion of revolution, revolution, intifada, from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free, blot out the Jews in the Middle East.
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It doesn't take a genius to recognize that when people who are already inclined toward violence in politics state those things, you're going to get political violence.
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Not to mention, you know, CNN, that one reporter, he interviewed Taylor Lorenz.
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They're laughing about Luigi like he's been lionized over there.
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Not to mention they had Caitlin Collins out there promoting his crowdfund link.
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You know, maybe now might be a time to be a little bit more careful in how you handle these stories.
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It's possible you've been a little too slow to connect these messages to resulting violence, right?
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You've been a little too quick to fan the flames or to tamp down the flames connecting all this rhetoric and then resulting violence.
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I just like CNN, I don't know what they're doing over there, but it's not journalism.
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Shut the fuck up with your justifications of what we're hearing on college campuses.
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It's so annoying to me that he just watched two people get shot to death.
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He's drawing a comparison to the rhetoric he's been hearing for two years now.
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Let him have his say, Sarah, it's not for you to try to cleanse his opinions.
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That CNN lady is demonstrating the suicidal impulse within liberalism, which is that whenever they see any political action, they see a clear perpetrator and they see a clear victim and they say, well, it has to be the opposite.
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They always have to immediately take the side of the perpetrator and always immediately neglect the victim, even when the political action is so clear as a murderer murders a young couple, a young couple of civilians.
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You know, this is not to say that the Israel-Palestine issue is without nuance and complexity and totally clear cut.
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I recognize there's been a lot of nuance and complexity to this issue, not only for about 100 years, but really for centuries and even millennia.
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However, I want nothing to do with the free Palestine movement.
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And I think that people need to have some moral clarity here.
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Just as a rule of thumb, you don't need to understand all of the complexity to realize that when the worst people on earth are all supporting one side, one political movement,
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you, if you're, if you're, if you are a sensible, reasonable person should say, wow, I don't agree with these people on anything on basically any other issue.
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So no, I, I probably shouldn't be on their side when it comes to this issue.
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I just, I've said before, it's totally fine to criticize Israel.
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It is fine to think that they've over responded to the horrific attack that they suffered on 10 seven,
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but you don't run around chanting, globalize the intifada and from the river to the sea, all of the, like, these are violent.
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That's less, less controversial, but these chants that we've been hearing on college campuses,
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as these activists harass Jewish students, in some cases, assault Jewish students.
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And then if I hear one more person try to tell me that, oh no, these are Jewish students doing the violence on college campuses, like, um, Jewish voices for peace.
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It's such a joke that they're the, this is not a pro Israel group.
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This is a group of radicals who are pro Hamas, who are masquerading as Jewish people who speak for Jewish people.
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And they're not in any event, it's, it's infuriating.
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You know, this is not even to say that there's never a role for violence in public life.
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For instance, there's justified violence after due process when the civil authority punishes criminals.
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It's not even to say that violence in itself is always terrible and evil, but in this case, listen to the arguments that these people are making.
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The, the free, free Palestine from the river to the sea, Israel or Palestine will be free is a call at the very least for ethnic cleansing.
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If not genocide, doesn't take a genius political philosopher to understand that these kinds of arguments that the people are making are arguments, not only against the state of Israel or not even arguments against Jews or Zionism.
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Their arguments against imperialism, their arguments in favor of radical liberation, their arguments in some cases in, in favor of Islamism, Islamic government.
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These are arguments that we would not accept on any other front that we, that we disagree with at a fundamental philosophical level.
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And so if there's been ambiguity, if there's been some lack of clarity up until now, well, now you're seeing the logical conclusion of those arguments made by the people who favor unjust political violence in many other circumstances and with which we have basically nothing in common.
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That's why Marco Rubio is ejecting these people from college campuses.
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I mean, truly, they're, you're here on a student visa.
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You come over to my house for dinner and you behave badly.
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I don't care whether you're here on a visa or you're not here.
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It's you're here by invitation and you can be ejected by, uh, by my whim there.
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And that's how Marco Rubio is treating these student visas on college campuses.
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I'll show you, um, I'm going to get to something else that happened on, on the murders, but he got into this with representative Jayapal, the squad member, um, on Wednesday at a hearing of the house foreign affairs committee,
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because he tried, is trying to eject this Tufts PhD student who wrote this op-ed in the student paper, um, that was basically aligning with the free Palestine crowd.
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Two courts have looked at it and said he doesn't have more than that and that this is a matter of free speech.
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He, she has the right to say whatever she wants.
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And he has the right to say, I've heard enough.
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She has no right based on a student visa to stay.
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They don't align with the foreign policy of this administration.
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But watch this exchange between Rubio and Jayapal.
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That law student was a guest in the United States on a student visa.
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So you revoked her student visa on, based on an op-ed, which trumps the Supreme law of the land, which is the Constitution.
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Someone's coming up here to stir up problems on our campus.
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And I'm talking to you about her particular case.
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Reclaiming my time, you revoked her student visa because she wrote an op-ed.
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We deny them all the time and we'll revoke them.
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And then you allowed for masked men to snatch somebody off the street.
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I mean, Michael, honestly, even if it is accurate, like, okay, you know, she's made a position
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He's not real pro on the, you know, divest from Israel or else crowd.
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We watched what happened on Columbia University's campus with that same crowd.
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You may not like it, but that is consistent with the president's policy when it comes to supporting
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The only problem with the president's policy, as far as I can tell, is that it's not broad
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I also want some of these foreigners ejected for being anti-Christian, for being anti-American,
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for being, because, you know, Pramila Jayapal, again, I have to ask, if you're a little confused
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on this issue, do you think you're on the side of Pramila Jayapal?
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Do you generally side with her on political issues?
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If you don't, chances are you're probably not on her side when it comes to this issue
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She's saying that people have some kind of right.
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Foreign nationals have some right to be here and use our resources and benefit from our country's
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Well, when you really dig down deep in this leftist ideology, it gets down to the notion
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that America is bad and we owe something to everyone else and we have no right to this
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We have no right to decide who comes in and who goes.
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The question that we should ask when it comes to immigration fundamentally is, do the people
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who are coming here benefit our country or not?
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When it comes to Columbia graduate students flying around from all over the world, most of
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And so we don't need to get much deeper than that.
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I stand by Marco Rubio when he says he's going to do more.
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Here's representative Ilhan Omar, who hasn't posted a single thing on X.
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Suddenly she's gone dark, totally quiet, even though she did post something about the big
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And then Fox News caught up with her this morning to see if she would comment and watch
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Congresswoman Omar, can I get your reaction to the shooting that happened in D.C. last
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Congresswoman Omar, can I get your reaction to the shooting that happened in D.C. last night?
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I'm going to go for now. Wow. That's it. It wasn't a provocative question at all. It was
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as neutral and vanilla as you could possibly ask. She couldn't muster. I condemn it. And I'm so
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sorry for the two victims. She couldn't even muster that. This woman needs to be voted out
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of office immediately. I cannot believe that she actually is a sitting US representative in the
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House of Representatives. No comment from Ilhan Omar is probably the best thing she could have
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said here, because we all know what she really thinks. I mean, this is the woman who on video
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was laughing about people speaking negatively of Al Qaeda. You remember that video? They say Al
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Qaeda. You know, this is a woman who has extremely radical views and obvious sympathy with Islamists
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and the Free Palestine movement and the Intifada broadly. So that we know what she believes that
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she's not even just some fringe radical. As you point out, Megan, this is a sitting member of
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Congress. And I want nothing to do with her views. I really want nothing to do with her.
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And while while we're booting radical grad students out of the country, we should probably
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boot these radicals out of Congress. You know, the left for a long time has been telling us that it's
00:23:13.980
it's white men and it's the right that perpetrates violence in the United States. Somebody on Twitter
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on X, um, pulled this old sod of Nicole Wallace making this point, uh, a couple of years ago.
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Here she is. Oh no, we don't have it. Okay. We'll get it. We'll get it and we'll drop it in. Okay.
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In any event, you know, I'm right. The left has been making this point for a long time about how
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it's white men that we need to fear. It's right wing conservatism. That's the biggest danger to us in
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the United States. Like, okay, now we've had Luigi. Now we've had this guy. Um, how many more
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do we have to have before they actually start paying attention to their rhetoric, their messaging
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and their lionization of guys like Luigi, right? Which leads to other people thinking,
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maybe I'll be lionized too. Maybe I'll have a fan club. Maybe I'll have a GoFundMe and I'll bet
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you dollars to donuts. This guy's going to get a GoFundMe to support him probably tomorrow.
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That's probably why Ilhan Omar withheld comment. She's busy setting it up for him.
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Of course, you know, it, I'm glad actually, I think that was a gift you gave to me that we don't
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need to listen to Nicole Wallace right now, Megan, because you, you, you don't need to go very far
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to disprove her claim that, you know, white men are the great violent threat in the country.
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You can look at crime statistics and you can listen to what other people are saying,
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but this has been true for a long time that the left made much hay over January 6th,
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the worst day in the history of this or any Republic. But of course, not only was that not
00:24:43.920
the worst attack ever on the Capitol, it's probably not even in the top three. And when you look at
00:24:49.260
violent attacks on the Capitol, including Congressman being shot, they were almost always perpetrated
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by radical leftists. The radical left has embraced political violence going back at least
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to the French revolution, uh, when the term left in a political sense was first invented.
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So this is a longstanding problem. And, uh, there's, there's no surprise whatsoever.
00:25:10.100
You have to ask yourself on this particular issue, the Intifada and the free, free Palestine
00:25:15.900
movement, what are they really saying? They're, they're saying that we need to get rid of the
00:25:21.580
state of Israel because even if you say, okay, hold on, you don't think that the state of Israel
00:25:24.840
was justified in going to war against Gaza after the Gazans attacked them on October 7th,
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a couple of years ago, they would say, well, it didn't start then, you know, actually some of them
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would even defend October 7th as a justified response to Israeli oppression. And if you keep
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scratching that deep enough, you get down to their ultimate claim, which is that the state of
00:25:43.720
Israel has no right to exist. They shouldn't have been there in the first place. And I say, okay,
00:25:47.620
I'll keep an open mind. What's the argument for that? Because when I look at the foundation of the
00:25:52.360
state of Israel, I see the Balfour declaration. So the empire that controlled the land, the British
00:25:57.660
empire said the Jews can have a territory in this land. Then I see the UN establishing the state of
00:26:03.580
Israel. So if you believe in international law at all, I guess you'd have to recognize that.
00:26:07.680
And then the Israelis fought a war in 1948 to take the land. So even by the law of conquest,
00:26:12.320
you see the establishment. And so you might say, well, I don't like how that war turned out or the
00:26:17.520
subsequent wars. You might say, I don't like the UN. You might say, I don't like the British empire.
00:26:21.360
But if you accept the most basic premises of our international system, going back to the peace of
00:26:26.900
Westphalia, it's really hard to make a coherent argument for the ethnic cleansing that the free,
00:26:32.120
free Palestine movement wants to, to effect. So then at that point with logic gone totally out
00:26:38.100
the window, all that the political movement can come down to is a kind of senseless violence where
00:26:44.840
they're going to start murdering civilians to affect political ends, which is the basic definition of
00:26:49.880
terrorism that was always built in. And if you've fallen for, for this kind of rhetoric up until this
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point, I think at this moment you have to say, all right, this is a bridge too far. And as is often
00:27:02.000
the case in politics, you kind of have to pick a side. Yeah. Okay. So she must be watching because
00:27:07.880
Ilan Omar literally just dropped the following statement on X. Megan Kelly show and Michael
00:27:16.740
Knowles fan. She writes, I am appalled by the deadly shooting at the Capitol Jewish museum last night,
00:27:21.240
holding the victims, their families and loved ones in my thoughts and prayers. Violence should have no
00:27:25.040
place in our country. I don't believe her. I don't believe her at all. Otherwise she wouldn't have
00:27:29.720
paused before turning to that Fox news reporter saying, I'm going to go now. It wasn't a tough
00:27:34.280
question. It's so easy. It wasn't. Even if you are the most pro free, free Palestine person in
00:27:41.180
Congress, and she might actually hold that title. She's definitely up there. Yeah. At the very least,
00:27:45.240
you're asking, couldn't you just say, oh yes, we're, we're praying for the victims. Rick,
00:27:48.040
we asked Scott and Pache, you know, I'll say a prayer and move on. If you can't muster even that
00:27:52.500
most base, I mean, look, when, uh, any political opponent gets sick, Joe Biden just got, he just
00:27:59.140
announced he had, he had cancer. Every single Republican I saw, no matter how much they despise
00:28:03.280
Joe Biden, they said, okay, well, we say prayer. It's cancer's awful. You know, he's a fellow human
00:28:07.120
being. Uh, you know, I, I, uh, I, I'll raise him up in prayer. That's the most basic thing you could
00:28:12.440
possibly say. She couldn't muster that. It just shows the level of contempt with which she holds her
00:28:17.440
opponents. Yeah, no, it's obvious. And it's been obvious to us for a while, for a while. She's, um,
00:28:23.280
there was, um, the moment when Fox reporter Hillary Vaughn, do you remember this caught up with her
00:28:28.920
asking about Hamas terrorists? This was from 2023. She was all over the internet and all over our show
00:28:36.520
just for her insensitivity to what had been done to the Israelis, what was being done to Jews on college
00:28:44.200
Do you think that Israel should just lay down their arms and not try to get the hostages out
00:28:57.120
of Gaza? How can Israel have a ceasefire with terrorists whose entire mission is to wipe out
00:29:04.720
their existence? How can they have a ceasefire if they're trying to wipe out this crazy lady?
00:29:11.860
Don't worry about her. Ignore this crazy lady. Don't worry about her. That's what Ilhan Omar finally
00:29:17.340
said. I can't, I mean, like, it's really kind of scary that this woman is in the U S Congress. I
00:29:21.280
realize the bar is kind of low, but it's, she's as low as they come. I mean, truly, we have a true
00:29:27.700
anti-Semite sitting there voting on legislation as we speak. Well, ironically, Ilhan's point of view is
00:29:35.520
actually the way that I view Ilhan Omar. I said, don't worry about this crazy lady. Forget about her.
00:29:39.380
Ignore her. Maybe, maybe boot her out of Congress when you have the chance.
00:29:43.300
Isn't she the one who put up the Somalian flag outside of her office? Like, cool. Okay, great.
00:29:48.980
All right. So that's her. And honestly, I mean, our prayers, not just to the families of these
00:29:55.560
victims who had everything in front of them, everything in front of them, they, by all accounts,
00:30:00.160
especially I've been hearing so many testimonials to him. Um, what they're saying
00:30:03.780
online is that his mother was Christian. His father was Jewish. Um, and he was, um, he, he was
00:30:11.220
Israeli, I think a dual citizen. And, um, she was Jewish, the girl, but they were about to get
00:30:17.160
engaged that he was reportedly just such a sweet guy. And somebody posted the last posts online of
00:30:25.040
this guy and the suspected shooter. And his last post was so sweet. It was like completely pro
00:30:32.380
America, very different from the guy who shot him. Hold on a second. Let me just see if I can find it.
00:30:38.760
It was disturbing. Yeah, here it is. Um, Marina Medvin posted this on X the tweet of this Elias
00:30:47.460
Rodriguez was the last one. Um, Oh no, not the last one, but one, a recent one death to America
00:30:55.140
with KKK, uh, in the America spelling. And here's Yaron Lashinsky, the victim, uh, from May 10th.
00:31:04.340
We are deeply grateful for the historic Alliance with our steadfast partner, the United States
00:31:08.740
and the great American people who have stood by our side. I look forward to working with this
00:31:13.640
administration to bring up about more security, freedom and peace with an Israeli flag and American
00:31:19.820
flag and two hands holding and shaking each other. I mean, just such a different mentality,
00:31:24.720
Michael, to your point. As you describe what side of the victims, Megan, I mean, this, this to me,
00:31:30.540
maybe it's just that I'm not ideological enough. I don't, maybe I'm not smart enough to figure it out.
00:31:34.700
But when I look at politics, I think very practically, I think very in a prudential way. And you see the,
00:31:41.620
the alleged perpetrator and you see the victim and you got to ask yourself, I don't care if you're
00:31:49.480
Jewish. I don't care if you believe in Zionism. If you accept the religious and historical premises
00:31:54.820
of Zionism, many people don't remember. Most people don't, uh, especially if you're Christian,
00:31:59.000
but just did a practical matter. Who do you have more in common with, but even beyond questions of
00:32:04.940
justice, who do you have more in common with? Who do you think is more on your side? The, the lunatic
00:32:09.480
shouting free, free Palestine, murdering a young, innocent couple that probably despises America.
00:32:14.740
In fact, we know he despises America because he sided with the socialists and the communists and BLM.
00:32:19.080
That person makes it pretty clear. The tweet makes it pretty clear. He says it himself,
00:32:23.260
that person or the victims. Who do, who do you think you have more? Who do you think's more on
00:32:28.240
your side? Which side do you think you should be on? That's exactly, exactly right. Um, okay,
00:32:34.280
let's keep going while we're on the subject of CNN failures, uh, Tapper and Thompson out there
00:32:40.720
pushing this book. They were on the program on Tuesday and, um, notwithstanding the fact that
00:32:45.700
we gave Jake Tapper a very hard time for not being the right person to author this book.
00:32:50.140
Alex Thompson is fine. He, he actually can author this book. He did not only try to cover some of the
00:32:55.960
Biden decline, but did better than anyone in the so-called mainstream, uh, in trying to hold Kamala
00:33:01.820
Harris's many flip-flops to account by going to her campaign over and over and saying,
00:33:07.100
do you still stand by taxpayer funded sex changes for prisoners? And she would blow them off. But
00:33:12.440
Axios had an article from him virtually every day on that stuff. Okay. So he is continuing and Jake
00:33:17.420
is continuing the press tour and he went to Alex Thompson on news nation and spoke with our pal Leland
00:33:22.780
Vittert on Tuesday. And this, this is so right on, this is so right on watch this clip and stop five
00:33:30.340
15, sorry. Stop 15. When you were reporting this, did people in his inner circle, did those that you
00:33:36.820
talked to acknowledge that the media, were they surprised by how complicit the media was?
00:33:42.480
It was interesting. I had one conversation with someone, this was after the election while we were
00:33:46.100
reporting this book. Um, and, uh, this person said, listen, yes, we deserve blame for X, Y, Z. We
00:33:54.760
were hiding him. We were, but this person also sort of got in my face and they said, listen, the media
00:34:00.180
deserves some blame too. Like we were sort of amazed at some of the stuff we were able to spin
00:34:06.980
and get away with on. They, they, in some ways, the bank robber complaining that safe wasn't locked.
00:34:12.000
Yeah. They're just like, you guys, you guys should not have believed us so easily. And I thought that
00:34:16.900
was like a really interesting, but I also think that's true. I think, I think the media, um,
00:34:22.340
in a lot of ways just was not skeptical enough and did not remember the lesson that they do it to
00:34:29.520
different degrees, but every white house lies. Pretty amazing. Even the Democrats in the white
00:34:35.560
house were astonished at how compliant the media was in spreading their lies about Joe Biden.
00:34:42.000
I love seeing the media reactions to Tapper's book at which, which is golly, can you believe now
00:34:50.680
we're discovering, I mean, I guess this is actually the point of the book. We're discovering all these
00:34:54.900
things. The white house told us that Biden was perfectly fine. I mean, I know we saw him drooling
00:34:59.660
on himself in the oval office, but, but they told us, they promised us that we didn't actually see
00:35:04.780
and to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. And these are not the droids you're looking
00:35:08.720
for. So don't blame us. We're the intrepid fourth estate that has to speak truth to power.
00:35:13.180
But, but we were told by the propagandists of the white house to stop looking. And we did don't,
00:35:18.100
don't blame, blame them. Don't blame us. Hey buddy, I thought your job,
00:35:21.480
the whole reason we have to defend the wonderful, brilliant journalists is you're going to ask the
00:35:26.120
questions. If, if all you're going to do is take the propaganda line from Democrat white house,
00:35:30.600
hook, line and sinker. Why am I even going to tune into you? I'll just watch the white house.
00:35:34.320
Uh, there's not going to be any difference in messaging. That's exactly right. Just turn on C
00:35:38.460
span. Uh, you know, you can, you can get some direct messages from Democrats without any media
00:35:42.680
filter and make up your own mind, but they acted, they really, they, they really, they helped spread
00:35:49.600
the lies and launder the lies. And now they're using this Tapper Thompson book to launder their own
00:35:57.740
cover up into a, gee, we're just now learning about this from this book. This is horrifying
00:36:04.440
information. Can't believe that this happened to us. The, these white house people are really
00:36:09.160
terrible. Meanwhile, you've got, I'm, I am going to make you look at Nicole Wallace. Cause we had
00:36:13.340
two sound bites from her today. Um, here she is. This is by somebody on X, uh, who goes by Mays Moore.
00:36:19.780
This is her, the first one under Trump calling for polygraphs of his inner circle on his fitness for
00:36:31.320
office versus under the Joe Biden regime. When those so-called cheap fake videos showing actual
00:36:40.040
Joe Biden freeze ups came out. Watch. John Kelly, we need people to Kelly and Conway. Absolutely.
00:36:47.280
Steve Bannon, Jared Kushner. Let's hook them up to a polygraph. You know what? It's a serious
00:36:53.020
offer. If you're willing, any one of you hook up to a polygraph, we'll put it on TV. You can have my
00:36:58.020
hour. We'll do one a day. Is Donald Trump fit for the presidency? Is he capable of carrying out
00:37:02.760
the responsibilities? There's a growing and insidious trend in right-wing media broadcast print and social
00:37:09.040
media. It is to take highly misleading and selectively edited videos of president Biden directly from
00:37:16.480
Republican national committee, social media accounts, and then use those videos to spread
00:37:22.340
messages virally to cast doubt on president Biden's fitness for office, cheap fakes videos of real events
00:37:28.940
that are intentionally manipulated to full viewers. Can you imagine the humiliation that she would feel
00:37:38.760
right now if she actually had an honest bone in her body? Well, fortunately she'll never have
00:37:45.280
to worry about that. The irony of her claim, they often use this, the highly, highly edited,
00:37:51.420
selected video. Yeah, they're selected to show Joe Biden speaking on the rare occasions that you'd
00:37:55.500
actually cover it. Heavily edited. What are you talking about heavily edited? We just play the
00:37:58.460
videos of him. The irony is her claim really applies to them. And I'm not even saying it applies
00:38:04.800
to the Democrat committees and the Democrat activists. I'm talking about when Kamala Harris sits
00:38:10.040
down for a 60 minutes interview and the editors have to go in there and chop it up with extreme
00:38:14.660
precision to make it sound like that woman is not babbling nonsense. And by the way, she is supposedly
00:38:20.440
in her right mind. She wasn't even suffering from dementia as Joe Biden obviously was. So now you're
00:38:25.760
going to see this quasi mea culpa. It's not even really a mea culpa. It's pointing the culpa at the
00:38:31.780
White House and saying, wow, you know, golly, I guess he really was in decline. It reminds me of
00:38:36.220
John McCain after the 2008 presidential election. Shortly afterward, when it became clear that Obama
00:38:42.820
was a complete disaster, John McCain was asked a question by a reporter. He said, there's a survey
00:38:48.100
out that shows that if the election were held today, you would have won, that most people wish that you
00:38:52.260
had won. What's your reaction to that, Senator McCain? And his answer was perfect. He said, I guess my
00:38:57.460
answer is, where were you when I needed you? That's how I feel about the media. Oh, great. You're
00:39:03.380
covering Joe Biden's decline many months now after he's left office, many, many months after the 2024
00:39:09.560
election. Hey, where were you when I needed you? You know, it's this kind of dishonesty that has
00:39:17.700
completely sunk the corporate media. I mean, it's just completely sunk them, that among many other
00:39:23.380
things. But they're, you know, they're not truth tellers. They're just not truth tellers. They are
00:39:28.160
Democrat soldiers who they're the same in their marching as the North Korean army is when we see
00:39:36.380
them falling over Kim Jong-un. They have the same loyalty to the Democrat party and are marching in
00:39:42.640
their own way. Right. So now there's an article out today in the New York Times talking about how
00:39:50.580
there there's big money over on the left wing going into fund the quote, the next Joe Rogan,
00:39:57.220
like the Democrats are serious about this. Now they've decided they have to compete in our world,
00:40:02.440
in the digital world. And they've got to find again, quote, the next Joe Rogan. And it starts
00:40:07.500
with money. They're taking all their money. They have way more money in terms of these dark donors
00:40:11.200
than the Republicans do. They've got to channel it into certain talent to try to create strong voices
00:40:17.680
in the digital lane. And I got strong feelings about whether this is going to work, Michael, but I,
00:40:23.660
I don't think, and then my top line in tossing it to you is I don't think it's going to work
00:40:28.360
among many other reasons. The Democrats aren't authentic and honest. They are the North Korean
00:40:35.580
soldiers. And anybody who would be backed by one of these dark money groups to launch his or her
00:40:41.980
podcast will necessarily be owned by them and therefore will be ineffective.
00:40:46.840
It also just can't work because Joe Rogan is a response to them. And Joe is obviously the biggest
00:40:53.680
podcaster in the world, but that's true of all the rest of us too, all the rest of us with pretty
00:40:58.580
sizable platforms. We are a response to them. We exist in this space because they failed. So they
00:41:06.300
say, well, when are the Democrats going to get our Joe Rogan? You have him. He's called NBC News or any of
00:41:12.700
the other news networks or CNN or the New York Times or the Washington Post. You have it. You
00:41:17.660
cannot complain if you're a Democrat that you have lack of exposure in the media. Okay. We have a
00:41:23.740
handful of people continually suppressed by social media platforms. And the reason that we are eating
00:41:29.460
these people's lunch is because they lie. So when CNN complains that their ratings are down after the
00:41:35.620
2024 election, don't blame me. And don't blame you, Megan. And don't blame Joe Rogan. We're not the
00:41:41.680
people watching CNN. I watch more CNN when I'm on your show because we're reacting to clips of these
00:41:46.380
people saying crazy things than I ever would on my own TV. But we're not the people who tuned out
00:41:51.020
CNN. We tuned out CNN many, many, many years ago. The people who tuned out CNN and MSNBC and all the
00:41:56.940
rest of these networks after the election were the liberal viewers who felt jilted and lied to
00:42:02.300
because they were lied to. And then they look for alternatives. And now what? You're going to try to
00:42:06.220
be the alternative to the alternative? I don't think it's going to work. It's not going to work.
00:42:10.060
This is so true. And by the way, you're like, I've heard you and I've certainly on this show
00:42:14.440
too, have been very critical of Republican leadership, depending on what they're doing.
00:42:19.700
The right doesn't tend to have those same rules as the left does. The right is constantly infighting
00:42:26.340
over who's the right candidate? What's the right approach? Which side of the MAGA wing should win?
00:42:30.860
What's the approach on foreign policy? They're not pro-censorship and pro, you know,
00:42:37.280
the duck march that we see with these weirdos on the left. It's just not the way it's not in the
00:42:42.760
right wing bloodstream. So I just don't think it's going to work. And, you know, not for nothing,
00:42:48.080
but Joe Rogan was a Bernie Sanders voter in 2020, 2020. OK, so you had Joe Rogan, you ran him out of
00:42:57.280
your party by your extremity. You know, you're you're just too far out of the mainstream. They're
00:43:02.940
too radical, Michael. You know, I heard it once described as a distinction between Bill Clinton
00:43:08.340
and Rudy Giuliani, archetypal Democrat, archetypal Republican. You can send Bill Clinton into a room
00:43:13.740
and he would find the one issue that 100 people in the room all agreed on. And you send Rudy
00:43:19.140
Giuliani into a room full of conservatives, they'd find the one issue on which they all disagreed.
00:43:23.300
There's nothing conservatives love more than disagreeing with each other. This is why on the
00:43:27.120
left you have progressives, basically only progressives left in the Democrat Party.
00:43:30.920
On the right, you have the paleocons and the neocons and the libertarians and the traditionalists and
00:43:37.560
the this and the that and the neopaleo. And I heard it described that the obscure political
00:43:43.240
monikers are the right wing version of gender pronouns. You know, we just all have to fight on
00:43:47.320
every single issue. OK, well, that creates some problems in forming political coalitions that work.
00:43:53.280
That's why what Trump was able to do in 2016 and 2024 was so impressive. He brought in all these
00:43:58.300
disparate groups who don't seem to get along, but they all voted and actually did something
00:44:02.240
together. But the advantage of having all that disagreement on the right is the truth tends to
00:44:07.080
get out a little bit. We're not so in lockstep. We're not so married to a single ideology that you
00:44:12.400
could see a political event occur right before your eyes and deny it and be and have that denial
00:44:17.800
enforced by all the powerful institutions that the Democrats have taken over.
00:44:21.860
And not only does the left control the media, I mean, everything except the digital lane and Fox,
00:44:26.960
but they control all of the media. But of course, they control so many of our cultural institutions
00:44:31.860
like Hollywood, not to mention our financial institutions, which largely lean very, very
00:44:37.760
left. We've seen that with all the woke investing. That's been a disaster over the past five years.
00:44:43.580
Sports, universities and and music, music, which is something we don't talk about that often.
00:44:49.900
I don't know if you saw this Bruce Springsteen rant against the president. He's as far left as
00:44:56.280
they come. And by the way, he has really lost his talent. I'm not saying it just to be mean.
00:45:00.880
It's true. He can't sing anymore. Someone needs to give him the gentle tap on the shoulder and tell
00:45:06.360
him it's time to exit screen stage left. Here he is in just a bit clip from Manchester, England on May
00:45:13.260
14th at a concert. People are trying to hear Bruce Springsteen music who gives two dams what he thinks
00:45:21.480
about President Trump. But he's got to launch into it. Watch.
00:45:24.760
In my home, the America I love, the America I've written about, that has been a beacon of hope
00:45:34.860
that liberty for 250 years is currently in the hands of a corrupt, incompetent, and treasonous
00:45:47.700
We ask all who believe in democracy and the best of our American experience to rise with us,
00:45:55.920
raise your voices against authoritarianism, and let freedom ring.
00:46:00.940
Okay. First of all, you're in England, so get a grip. They're not rising up against us at all.
00:46:08.600
We rose up against them and found our independence, Bruce. I got to show you the Trump response,
00:46:13.300
which is just perfect. It's a little AI manipulated video. Let's roll it.
00:46:18.900
I'll just grab it for the listening audience. It's Trump swinging his golf club, like at the
00:46:23.820
beginning of a, and then Bruce Springsteen, he trips walking upstairs and he makes it look like
00:46:30.660
his golf ball hit Bruce Springsteen. So my point, my largest, larger point is just like this. Yes,
00:46:37.840
we're, we are a reaction to this too. We are a reaction to their control of virtually every
00:46:46.820
Listen, I, I'm not going to pretend like I've never listened to a Bruce Springsteen song.
00:46:51.100
I was raised in New York. This is a little TMI, probably Megan. I was conceived in New Jersey. Okay.
00:46:56.620
So I've listened to plenty, uh, Love Thunder Road. Atlantic City is great, even though the band's
00:47:01.480
version of Atlantic City is better than Bruce Springsteen's version. But the reason that Trump
00:47:05.860
can get away with this right now, taking a big prominent rock star, even if he's a little past
00:47:11.080
his prime or taking a big pop star like Taylor Swift or taking any of these celebrities that
00:47:15.400
Trump takes on. The reason that Trump can get away with this in a way that no other Republican has
00:47:19.600
been able to is that Trump is a bigger pop star than they are. This is the first time Republicans have
00:47:25.220
ever had this. We came pretty close with Ronald Reagan. He was a Hollywood star. Trump is even
00:47:29.700
bigger. Trump has dominated the popular culture. Network TV was top of the ratings. Uh, he's been
00:47:36.580
in tabloids my entire life, major, uh, not only businessman, but major pop culture figure. And the
00:47:44.100
left is so off-footed by this. They've always relied on all of their favorite people. Uh, not just
00:47:50.400
Bruce Springsteen and Taylor Swift, but, uh, P Diddy. Remember that? Remember the voter die campaign?
00:47:54.640
And that one's probably coming back to bite the Democrats a little bit right now, though it's
00:47:57.340
par for the course. They would rely on the pop culture figures to drown out the voices of
00:48:02.680
conservative politicians until you get a bigger pop star, even than the ones that Democrats have.
00:48:09.160
And that's Trump and he's using it. I love that he's, he's engaging in fights with these pop
00:48:13.760
stars. Some people think it's a distraction from the real serious policy. You know, we need to just
00:48:17.720
wear all of our neckties and have white papers at the think tanks in DC. No, man, there's a,
00:48:22.420
there's a place for that. But if you want to speak to a huge portion of voters who are not
00:48:27.160
plugged into all that wonkery, who really do kind of just pay attention to like pop culture and this
00:48:32.260
stuff that's on TV, you finally have a guy in Donald Trump who can do that, who can do it very
00:48:37.080
effectively. And that golf ball just takes Bruce Springsteen right down. All right. Now in the minute
00:48:42.020
we have left, are you excited for pride month? Michael Knowles, we are just days away now from your
00:48:46.860
favorite time of year. It's very bigoted of you to even suggest Megan, that pride is limited to a
00:48:53.140
single month. You know, it began as a day, then it was a week, then it became a month. Now there's
00:48:58.180
another month. October is also another kind of LGBT month. So we are very close to pride year.
00:49:03.640
However, it's losing its corporate sponsorship. We might have reached peak pride.
00:49:09.240
Oh my gosh. I mean, I, hallelujah. I hope you're right. We've got an American Pope
00:49:13.460
and we might've reached peak pride. We'll find out momentarily because it starts in June. As my
00:49:19.400
15 year old very wisely said, why did the LGBTQ people get a whole month and the veterans only
00:49:26.720
get a day? Very good question. Michael Knowles, always a pleasure, my friend. Thanks for coming on.
00:49:32.720
Great to be with you, Megan. All right. Coming up next, an actual Democrat who does criticize her
00:49:37.800
own side and they criticize her too, a lot for coming on this show, but she does it,
00:49:43.420
which speaks well for her. Anna Kasparian, you know her. And we haven't been able to ask her about
00:49:47.460
Trump's attempt to lower the cost of prescription drugs. We'll get into that and much, much more
00:49:52.360
in just a minute with her. Since president Trump's election, the eyes of the nation have been on
00:49:56.520
Mar-a-Lago and the free state of Florida. It's a thriving, booming place. South Florida is a special
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with a new reservoir south of Lake Okeechobee to keep clean, fresh water flowing constantly to South
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Florida. President Trump said after years of rebuilding other nations, we're finally rebuilding
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our nation. Washington can finish the job in next year's budget and keep President Trump's promise.
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The Everglades Foundation, our advertiser, says that would be good for Florida and good for the
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Everglades. Learn more about President Trump's Everglades support project at evergladesfoundation.org.
00:50:52.820
Democrats continue to spiral and pass the blame on covering up Joe Biden's health and the 2024 loss.
00:50:59.920
So what comes next? Joining me now, someone who has a lot of thoughts, she is the host and executive
00:51:04.740
producer of The Young Turks, Anna Kasparian. Anna, welcome back. So there's some soul searching. I
00:51:13.260
don't know if that's, is it real? Is it real soul searching? Is it like just desperate darts at a
00:51:18.820
board stuff? What's happening right now as the Democrats deal with this Tapper book in addition to
00:51:24.400
the other books that have come out and just the reality of Trump governing? There needs to be some
00:51:29.820
soul searching. I question whether that's really taking place right now within the Democratic
00:51:35.280
establishment. And unfortunately, what I'm seeing in liberal media is this effort to provide cover for
00:51:43.660
what the Democrats did in the last election cycle while simultaneously condemning the authors of any book
00:51:51.000
that sheds a negative light on the Biden administration and the Biden camp. And to be quite
00:51:58.080
frank with you, I'm just tired of political figures, whether we're talking about Democrats or Republicans
00:52:05.060
who are more interested in their own political ambitions, in their own, you know, money making
00:52:11.340
capability, as opposed to serving as public servants to do what's right for their party, for their
00:52:18.000
constituents. I just see this whole situation as one big egotistical mess. And the party will continue
00:52:26.480
losing as long as they fail to take a moment, just a beat to self-reflect and figure out what they need
00:52:33.740
to do to reform, to move forward and be a far more appealing party. Right now, they are not an appealing
00:52:38.980
party. The polls indicate that. You know, it's funny because when we watched the Democrats these past
00:52:43.880
four years and earlier than that, too, we pointed out many times when things weren't going Joe Biden's
00:52:49.140
way in the polls, for example, while while he was just president or while he was running, they would
00:52:55.420
constantly say, we've got to change the message. Like people aren't understanding how great he is.
00:53:01.440
Like it's it's the messaging that's the problem, as opposed to the underlying policies or like the
00:53:07.400
actual choices he was making open borders for one. And now it seems like they're in the same
00:53:12.580
damning cycle where the reports are what we need is more online influencers. You know, we what we need
00:53:21.200
is our own Joe Rogan. So we're going to throw money at developing a Joe Rogan type on the left. And
00:53:28.760
from my perch, all I can think is that's not it. When you get your, you know, well-funded left wing
00:53:37.960
guy who is a man's man, who's into like martial arts and mixed martial arts and is cool and is
00:53:45.140
funny and somebody that other guys can look up to. He cannot then spend the two hours saying
00:53:51.900
you, you can't say that word and you can't say that word. And we have to begin with a land
00:53:57.900
acknowledgement every day. Like, and that's where the Democrat party largely is right now.
00:54:01.820
Well, it's thought of as the party of scolds and they do need to move away from that, especially
00:54:07.580
if they're looking to build a coalition large enough to win critical elections. And really,
00:54:14.340
I think a lot of Americans are fatigued by constantly like looking over their shoulder,
00:54:19.180
worried that they might say the wrong thing, worried that they might be cast off as some
00:54:23.400
sort of bigot or racist because they accidentally used a word that's no longer in vogue with the
00:54:28.320
whole of the democratic party. Look, I think most Americans are good people. And I think,
00:54:33.060
you know, when culture changes, we have to have some grace with individuals to change along with
00:54:38.140
it or to adapt with those changes. I think most Americans are good people who are not bigoted,
00:54:43.120
who are not racist, who are not hateful, but want to live in a pluralistic society that treats
00:54:48.820
all sides and all identities fairly. And what you kind of see with the democratic party right now is just
00:54:56.640
this hyper emphasis on all the things that this country has done wrong in the past, what needs to be
00:55:04.620
done moving forward to right those wrongs. And in the meantime, there's just a lot of hateful rhetoric
00:55:10.440
being spewed at people who might have identified as Democrats their entire lives, might have voted as
00:55:15.940
Democrats their entire lives. But there might be a social issue here or there that they're not
00:55:21.280
comfortable with. Or maybe they're worried about what they're experiencing in the big city that they're
00:55:26.200
living in that's currently being run by Democratic lawmakers, Democratic governor or mayor. And they
00:55:32.300
want to see some changes in reforms. But if they voice their opinion on those reforms, they'll get
00:55:38.580
dogpiled all over the Internet and they'll made to be they'll be out, you know, made out to be like a
00:55:44.720
terrible person. And I just what I'm seeing on the right right now. And again, I don't know if this is
00:55:51.080
just what happens to be part of the culture on the right or if it's a, you know, political strategy,
00:55:57.780
there's less judgment and more openness to absorbing people into their party. And that's how
00:56:05.100
you win. That's how you win. Now, look, I'm not saying, oh, Democrats need to throw their principles
00:56:09.840
out of the window. They should, you know, absorb, you know, a Nazi or a self-described Klansman. No,
00:56:16.500
I'm not saying that. But you and I both know that there are all sorts of people who have lost their
00:56:22.260
jobs, who have been made targets by the left because of the fact that, hey, you know what?
00:56:27.260
I wanted police reform. I didn't want to abolish the police. Hey, you know what? I see a place for
00:56:32.260
prisons in our society. I do want prison reform, but I don't want to abolish prisons. Those are the
00:56:38.200
type of people who tend to get attacked. And I know that because I happen to be one of them.
00:56:43.440
Yeah, exactly. Or on the BLM front, like I'm happy to be more inclusive of people,
00:56:49.060
but don't tell me our goal is to dismantle the nuclear family like it's an evil.
00:56:53.580
Right. And, you know, I would just warn the right about what they're currently seeing on the left,
00:57:00.820
because I do see some pretty prominent figures on the right who have kind of taken on that purity
00:57:06.840
culture where they're looking to do purity tests of people on the right. And if you're not perfectly in
00:57:11.720
line with what the right wants or what the Trump administration wants, well, you're not welcome.
00:57:15.540
You're not wanted. And if that type of culture festers, well, conservatives are going to lose,
00:57:20.680
too. You can't you can't have that. I mean, there are there is there are some people who are diehard
00:57:24.820
MAGA who will still hold it against people who were pro DeSantis. You know, I see that still on
00:57:29.360
Twitter. It's like, what is the point of that? You know, like Trump has won. Take take the W.
00:57:33.860
Run with it. Build the coalition. I mean, who cares what happened during the primaries?
00:57:37.820
But I would say in general, you're right that Republicans are much more accepting of different
00:57:41.840
viewpoints and different political philosophies than I've seen over on Team Blue, who resemble
00:57:46.740
North Korea to me in their efforts to make people toe the party line and, you know, continue the
00:57:52.620
right messaging and get Joe Biden across that finish line. We don't care how infirm he is.
00:57:57.640
This New York Times article from two days ago is titled Democrats throw money at a problem
00:58:02.140
countering GOP clout online. And this is speaking to that effort to find the new Joe Rogan.
00:58:06.900
At donor retreats and in pitch documents seen by the Times, liberal strategists are pushing the
00:58:11.200
party's rich backers to reopen their wallets for a cavalcade of projects to help Dems, as
00:58:17.020
the cliche now goes, find the next Joe Rogan. They're trying to energize glum donors and persuade
00:58:23.560
them that they can compete culturally with President Trump if only they throw enough money at the
00:58:28.160
problem. The quiet effort amounts to an audacious skeptics might say desperate bet that Democrats
00:58:34.300
can buy more cultural relevance online. And it ends with, um, hoping to move away from the current
00:58:40.520
didactic, uh, hall monitor style of democratic politics that turns off young voters. And, uh,
00:58:46.900
they will focus on directly funding influencers and co-producing their content, opening a creator
00:58:51.560
talent agency and starting by inking deals with four flagship creators, according to a business
00:58:57.540
plans to share with the times. Now you were in this space, uh, like one of you, one of the OGs,
00:59:02.620
the young Turks has been around a long time since I was on Fox. And you tell me whether it can be
00:59:07.580
recreated with just a deep pocket and some handpicked selection by some unknown democratic donor group.
00:59:16.820
Megan, if I could be a mouthpiece and rake in the big bucks, I mean, I don't know if I would do it,
00:59:24.880
but I know that I'm not capable of doing it. Right. So part of the reason why I find myself in this
00:59:29.840
terrible situation that I'm in where I'm basically rejected by the left, but I don't fit in with the
00:59:35.060
right really. Like I, you know, so I'm like kind of in no man's land right now and it's not fun.
00:59:41.100
It's pretty awful. But the reason why I'm there is because I have to be authentic. I have to be
00:59:46.440
honest with my audience. It's both selfish because I can't help, but just tell people how I actually feel
00:59:52.880
about the issues we talk about, but it's also because I respect my audience. I want my audience
00:59:58.620
to know the truth. And so if I see the left doing something that's counterproductive, if I see
01:00:03.860
something that I don't like, I'm going to speak out about it. And the reason why I do that is because
01:00:09.440
there's still a little bit of hope that maybe they'll learn some lessons. Maybe they'll heed the
01:00:15.320
advice and, you know, recalibrate some of their behavior and some of their policies so they can,
01:00:22.120
you know, attract a broad coalition of voters to support them. But instead, what I've noticed by
01:00:28.540
the Democratic Party is that rather than self-reflect, they like to lash out. They see
01:00:34.000
us as their public servants instead of them being our public servants. And that is a huge, huge problem.
01:00:41.700
So I want to reiterate, I don't fit in on the right. I have some pretty serious like left-wing
01:00:47.540
policy preferences. But culturally speaking, the left, I find repulsive at times and intentionally
01:00:56.680
so. I mean, they're intentionally behaving that way. And it's totally selfish because it's more
01:01:02.180
about how they feel and how they want to purge certain people out of the party, as opposed to
01:01:07.120
thinking about what they need to do to, again, attract a broad coalition of Americans who are
01:01:13.720
willing to buy in to their agenda and program. Yeah. I mean, I see it now. It's like one of the
01:01:20.040
reasons I'm thrilled that nobody owns one share of my company other than me. I don't have any
01:01:25.760
investors. I'm the only investor. And because then no one owns you. You know, the people who advertise
01:01:32.440
on my show, you know, GenuCell doesn't call me up telling me what to say about presidential
01:01:39.160
politics. They just want the platform to sell their makeup. And it's a great brand and I'm happy
01:01:43.560
to endorse it. But my point is they don't control me and none of them would ever try. They'd be
01:01:48.380
booted off the show immediately. And so it's like, by definition, the way they're going about this will
01:01:53.780
not work. You cannot have like the democratic apparatus create this star who then can somehow
01:02:01.080
become a Joe Rogan because you can't become a Joe Rogan if you're owned by anybody. If you're sent
01:02:05.960
out there with any agenda other than the one you just outlined, which is to tell people your honest
01:02:11.860
opinions and the facts as you know them. Right. And Joe Rogan's popularity is not manufactured.
01:02:19.740
It was organic. And the part of the reason why it's organic growth, organic popularity is because
01:02:25.720
he's willing to sit down and have conversations with almost anyone. I mean, one of my friends,
01:02:30.900
his name is Ben Burgess. He's a self-identified Marxist. Joe Rogan interviewed him. Joe Rogan
01:02:36.320
will interview people from across the political spectrum. He'll interview people who have nothing
01:02:40.260
to do with politics at all, but they're in a field of work that's super fascinating.
01:02:44.200
That's the way that he grew a massive audience, a massive diverse audience. Now, of course,
01:02:49.800
because of the fact that he had endorsed Donald Trump in the last election and prior to that had been
01:02:55.400
critical of some of the transgender policies as it pertains to women's sports and minors,
01:03:02.700
the left had kind of turned on him earlier. However, he still has this massive audience.
01:03:07.900
I'll listen to the podcast when he has a guest that I'm interested in hearing from.
01:03:12.400
And if they think that they're just going to throw money at a problem, the Democrats and
01:03:15.820
manufacture the next Joe Rogan that's going to help them win elections, I think they're just going to be
01:03:21.960
wasting a lot of money. And they're just going back to what I believe is the biggest issue within the
01:03:27.060
Democratic Party at the moment right now, which is the political bribes, right? You're going to raise
01:03:31.900
money. OK, great. But that money comes with strings attached. They know that. And oftentimes those donors
01:03:38.440
want goodies that the voters do not want. And that's why you had Kamala Harris trying to like,
01:03:45.420
you know, do this ridiculous balancing act where she's trying to appease the donors
01:03:49.440
without upsetting left wing voters. But the voters weren't buying it because guess what?
01:03:55.000
Voters are way smarter than our politicians know. What do you make of that on that front? Because
01:04:01.240
you were the first person I thought of when Trump announced his executive order on negotiating on
01:04:05.660
drug prices. And you had said your last appearance here like, hello, why is nobody focusing on that?
01:04:11.680
It was a Bernie issue. Trump's trying to take it on. Trump did try to take it on once before,
01:04:16.700
and it got struck down legally. And this may too, as an executive order, it really has to be done
01:04:21.220
legislatively. But yes, he's probably, you know, this is the time right now with the big, beautiful
01:04:27.280
bill. But what did you make of what Trump did? Well, first off, you know, if he's genuine and
01:04:33.940
sincere about wanting to lower pharmaceutical drug prices, obviously, I commend him. You're absolutely
01:04:38.460
right in that he wouldn't be able to do this unilaterally. He would need Congress to act.
01:04:43.040
I think one of the biggest issues right now is that you have Republican lawmakers in Congress
01:04:48.920
who are bribed, bought by the pharmaceutical industry. And they essentially said immediately
01:04:54.220
after Trump on, I believe it was on May 11th, when he had hinted that he was going to sign this
01:05:01.300
executive order, you heard from Republican lawmakers who essentially said, no, this is dead on arrival.
01:05:07.080
We're not going to include this in our budget bill. There's no way we're going to do it.
01:05:09.840
Even though negotiating for lower pharmaceutical drug prices or implementing a policy, the most
01:05:16.200
favored nation policy that would cap pharmaceutical drug prices in America to that of the country that's
01:05:23.080
paying the least amount, you know, that would save the most amount of money in taxpayer money when it
01:05:28.780
comes to our Medicare system. But yeah, all these fiscal hawks, right, the so-called fiscal hawks
01:05:35.220
who wanted to torpedo Trump's agenda didn't propose that. And I wonder why, why aren't you proposing
01:05:43.580
The big pharma money. It's so annoying. Yes. The Republicans are not above that sort of grift
01:05:48.940
either. They, both sides love it. If you are lining their pockets, their political future is more
01:05:54.220
important to them than doing the right thing. And so that's the problem. But look, I like that he's
01:06:00.600
trying. And if he doesn't try to get it into this big, beautiful bill, it's not going to happen
01:06:05.060
because that EO will probably meet the same fate as the earlier one did. On the subject of the Dems,
01:06:13.160
Bernie, the Medicare prices and the prescription drugs, he went on the flagrant podcast recently
01:06:20.900
with our pal Andrew Schultz, and they had a really interesting discussion. Here's a bit where he's
01:06:26.900
talking about the problem within the Democrat party. It's not 19. The problem I think a lot
01:06:31.860
of voters had is like, they didn't even know if it was her. We didn't even know if Biden was
01:06:35.340
president. We didn't even know if these were her talking points. And we felt that over the last
01:06:39.600
four elections, Democrats, we felt that we didn't have a say on who could be president. We talk a lot
01:06:47.800
about the Republicans being autocrats and oligarchs and taking over democracy. But from the Democrat
01:06:53.460
perspective, and I'm a lifelong Democrat, I felt like the Democratic Party completely removed the
01:06:59.320
democratic process from its constituents. And I think they need to have some accountability of that.
01:07:05.800
But then could we not also say, ostensibly, there hasn't been a fair primary for the Democrats since
01:07:10.860
2008. Are they not also a threat to democracy? We often hear...
01:07:14.560
Fair enough. That is, yeah, I'm not going to argue with that point.
01:07:19.100
I love the way he talks. The accent is just so great to listen to. He's not wrong, right? I mean,
01:07:25.700
he of all people has standing to say that because it happened to him twice.
01:07:33.340
Yep. Yeah. I mean, Bernie's back. And what I mean by that is he's realized that you can't really play
01:07:40.940
nice with the Democratic establishment and expect to get your policy priorities passed,
01:07:46.640
expect them to help you out in whatever your agenda might be. And, you know, 2015-2016 Bernie,
01:07:54.760
when he was running in the 2016 race, was a little different from 2020 Bernie. And what I mean by that
01:08:01.280
is as soon as the Democratic establishment saw an economic populace like Bernie Sanders gain the kind
01:08:09.480
momentum he did, they cynically used identity politics to crush him. Oh, you're not addressing
01:08:17.440
BLM. I mean, I remember during one of his campaign rallies, two people from BLM just jumped on stage,
01:08:26.160
interrupted the entire event, you know, called him out for allegedly not caring about Black bodies or
01:08:31.100
Black lives. And it was just utter, ridiculous, cynical use of identity politics to crush someone.
01:08:38.620
And in the end, I mean, what did the party get? In the end, Trump got elected in 2016, of course.
01:08:45.560
Then in 2020, you have Joe Biden, who was able to run from his basement because of COVID. But the only
01:08:52.200
reason why I think Biden won in that election or in that race is because of the fact that, you know,
01:08:56.720
many Americans didn't like the way Trump handled the coronavirus. So I think by the time you get to
01:09:03.380
2024, people were just done with Democrats because they're sick. Honestly, people are sick of the
01:09:09.660
identity politics. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't fight for a just cause. If you see
01:09:15.500
instances of discrimination, obviously something should be done about it. But it wasn't really about
01:09:22.200
doing something about discrimination or doing something about our broken, broken law enforcement
01:09:28.240
system or anything like that. It was used cynically to crush economic populace within the Democratic
01:09:33.800
Party. But now what I'm noticing with Bernie and AOC, by the way, is they've kind of shed a lot of that
01:09:41.580
rhetoric because they realize pronouns. She did. Exactly. And I mean, it's look, if AOC is willing to
01:09:49.040
self-reflect and realize, OK, I was pushing for things that most Americans, including Democrats,
01:09:54.740
weren't into. And I need to go back to the bread and butter issues. Great. I think that's a good way
01:10:00.020
to kind of move forward for Democrats. But I mean, she needs a long runway to kind of rebrand herself
01:10:06.640
as an economic populace, similar to who Bernie Sanders is. Here he is speaking to some of these
01:10:11.920
issues that you just outlined. Here's that 20. You have a question we want to ask about what
01:10:16.980
happened to you in 2016 with this Bernie bros movement where your your followers are seeing
01:10:22.840
they have a racism problem, a misogyny problem. Do you think that's a super PAC thing behind that?
01:10:26.920
No, it was the Democratic establishment. That was the. Oh, wow. OK. You know, that was just they
01:10:31.680
were sitting there. We had a lot of young people. We had people of color and and, you know, they create
01:10:36.540
this kind of myth with the help of the corporate media and all that stuff. You know, it's kind of
01:10:40.100
interesting to that note is during this election, the podcast space, which the Democrats largely avoided,
01:10:46.740
they feel had some influence in the election. And they started to label us the podcast bros
01:10:55.260
and said that we were sexist and we were racist and bigoted. It's almost like it's the exact same
01:11:01.200
strategy to get you out of there. Yeah, that's what the liberal elite China does.
01:11:07.180
And then I'll give you one more because he followed up on no one wants to keep doing this
01:11:12.700
identity politics thing anymore. It's not 21. And then you got to what we call identity politics.
01:11:19.000
You're black. You're wonderful. You're tremendous. You're gay. You're the greatest human being on
01:11:22.700
earth. Yeah. And rather than say, what do you what do you stand for? Exactly. Gay, that's fine. Who
01:11:29.680
cares? Yeah. What do you stand for? Yeah. You know, is every gay person brilliant and wonderful and
01:11:34.920
great? No, of course not. Everybody's a human being. Yeah. So the issue is what you stand for,
01:11:39.680
which gets you back to what we discussed earlier, class politics, in the sense of which side are you
01:11:45.360
on? Are you going to stand with working families? Are you going to raise the minimum wage to a living
01:11:51.820
wage or not? Are you going to guarantee fight to guarantee health care to all people or not?
01:11:58.100
Are you going to demand that the wealthiest people start paying their fair share of taxes or not?
01:12:03.260
Those are the issues. And no one cares what color you are, what your gender is, et cetera, et cetera.
01:12:07.340
Go ahead, Anna. No, well said. Well said. That's the Bernie Sanders that I
01:12:12.100
supported in 2015 and 2016. I also voted for him in the primaries in 2020. But by then he had allowed
01:12:20.100
the Democratic establishment to essentially tinker with his campaign. So he was kind of paying lip
01:12:27.100
service to the culture warriors who really, in my opinion, don't really give a damn about the causes
01:12:33.260
that they allegedly fight for. They're more interested in having an excuse to go around
01:12:37.400
scolding people and destroying campaigns of politicians that actually want to be public
01:12:41.780
servants who actually care about working class families in this country. And that was absolutely
01:12:46.040
disgusting that that happened to Bernie in 2016 and to some extent in 2020 as well.
01:12:51.140
But what you heard from Bernie right there, in my opinion, is a winning brand of politics.
01:12:58.640
Americans want to be left alone when it comes to their personal lives. OK, they don't want
01:13:02.780
to be judged because they're living in a traditional conservative household. They don't want to be
01:13:10.120
judged if they happen to be gay and want to marry a partner of the same sex. They just want the
01:13:15.580
government out of their personal lives entirely. But there is a role for the government. The role
01:13:20.780
for the government is to protect the American people, not only from criminals, not only from foreign
01:13:26.280
threats, but also from corporate greed. And that was the message of Bernie Sanders's campaigns and
01:13:32.960
the corporate Democrats loathed him. And so they used identity politics cynically to destroy his
01:13:39.020
campaigns, his possibilities. Why? Why did they loathe him? But like, why? You should ask their
01:13:44.320
corporate donors. You should ask Third Way, Third Way, a think tank that essentially helps to aid and
01:13:51.440
abet the neoliberalism brain rot that has infected the Democratic Party. Hmm. They're big and their
01:13:58.300
build is more moderate. That's what you always hear about Third Way. They're the more moderate
01:14:01.760
Democrats. They're just pro-corporate. They're just pro-corporate. Mm hmm. And it happens on both
01:14:07.160
sides. OK, I want to keep going. The Tapper Thompson book, the Democrats using it. I said this in the last
01:14:14.820
hour to sort of whitewash their own complicity, the media is. I didn't know. Oh, my God, is so much
01:14:21.560
new information in here. Now I finally know. And I'm angry that it was hidden from me. Very, very
01:14:27.020
angry. And, you know, we're all sitting over here like, who do you think you're kidding? This was
01:14:31.360
no better exemplified anywhere than when Tapper went on and sat across from Morning Joe and tried to
01:14:38.480
absolve Morning Joe of his best Biden ever rant in the following exchange. Watch.
01:14:45.820
Now, one thing in your specific case, Joe, our reporting indicates that Joe Biden, who, as you
01:14:53.000
know, is a frequent viewer of the show, saw when David Ignatius wrote that column in, I think, August
01:14:59.760
2023, saying that Joe Biden should not run for reelection because of what he had been hearing
01:15:04.460
about this. You largely agreed that you'd been hearing things about this, but that there was
01:15:08.680
really no alternative, that Kamala Harris was not up to the job. That's what Democrats were telling
01:15:12.540
you behind the scenes. Joe Biden saw that. Joe Biden said to staffers that he wanted to convince
01:15:19.320
you that you were wrong. And he focused on you like you were a constituency, like you were farmers in
01:15:26.280
Iowa, like you were the Kiwanis Club in New Hampshire. And he made sure that you thought
01:15:30.600
former Joe. He made sure that you thought differently. I think he did this with a couple
01:15:34.740
people. I think he did it with Meechum. He might have done it with Evan Osnos. He knew that there
01:15:39.800
were people that had to be convinced that he was fine. And he and he tried to prove that to you.
01:15:46.400
Oh, your thoughts on this is I think this is pathetic. It really is. I mean, it's just it's not even
01:15:54.120
difficult to figure this out. It's journalism 101. You can't just take what any politician says at
01:16:01.380
face value. So if a politician tells you they're passing this incredible bill and it's full of all
01:16:09.060
these wonderful provisions that are going to improve the lives of Americans, should a journalist
01:16:13.540
serve as a stenographer and simply jot down the quote without fact checking it? I mean, look,
01:16:20.120
I get what Jake Tapper is trying to get at here. No, no. But the Biden camp was telling us X, Y and Z.
01:16:26.380
OK, why are you so gullible? Why are you willing to believe what a political campaign that has an
01:16:33.880
interest in lying to you has to say? And you're willing to literally ignore what you see with your
01:16:41.420
own two eyes, what you hear with your own two ears. Come on. That's the thing. It's like it reminds
01:16:46.840
me of the Hitler was always very nice to me. It's like, OK, sure. I'm sure Hitler found a
01:16:52.220
journalist or two he wanted to manipulate and was totally sweet to. But then your eyes and your
01:16:56.960
ears, your ability to see and hear other people's stories lead you to understand Hitler's not a good
01:17:03.120
man. OK, I'm not saying Joe Biden is Hitler. I'm just saying like your only evidence of somebody and
01:17:08.060
who and how they are is not just your own one on one interactions with them. It can be a counterpoint.
01:17:13.360
You can say every time I've been with him, he has seemed sharp. But you're you're a hack
01:17:18.660
if you just go out on the air and demand that they roll the tape and everybody has to believe
01:17:24.260
you because this is the best Biden ever. Notwithstanding what 77 percent of the American
01:17:28.980
people were seeing and saying in the polls, they knew he wasn't up to the job. It's just such
01:17:33.940
hackery. So how do you see the latest revelation about his health announcement? And do you believe
01:17:43.160
him that he didn't have a PSA test since 2014 and that this was all a big surprise to him that came
01:17:49.840
just on the eve of this book hitting and her report coming out? I've listened to now several doctors
01:17:59.520
in various interviews talk about the likelihood that Joe Biden didn't know about his condition until he
01:18:06.400
announced it. And the vast majority of them disagree that he just found out about it.
01:18:13.640
I'm not a medical expert. What I am an expert in is the fact that the Democratic Party has been lying
01:18:20.960
to us. There was a cover up about his cognitive decline. Why am I to just believe at face value
01:18:27.840
that he just found out about this diagnosis when he announced it? He has no credibility.
01:18:33.520
And why aren't the statements signed by a doctor? Why do both of the statements that came out,
01:18:38.300
the first announcement and then the clarification about when he allegedly last had a PSA test come
01:18:42.340
from the office of the Bidens, like the Biden office? No name, no doctor. No one is actually
01:18:49.860
looking us in the eye and saying this is true. That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that,
01:18:55.060
but you're right. I mean, if you wanted to prove it, you could have some sort of evidence,
01:18:58.760
some sort of note indicating that he wasn't given the test to, you know, find or detect.
01:19:05.500
Have Dr. Kevin O'Connor come out and say, let me, let me take all your questions. He,
01:19:09.540
he didn't want it. We figured he was of a certain age. We stopped doing it. I explained to him,
01:19:13.840
these are the risks. He said, it's fine. I, you know, like let's that, we would be able to hear
01:19:17.680
the ring of truth if it were true. There's a reason they're not doing it. On top of all that,
01:19:22.400
Dr. Keith Ablow came out. He was actually did a very interesting show the other day on how
01:19:27.040
he's had prostate cancer and was making a couple of points. First, just FYI, we had Dr. Not Ablow,
01:19:35.360
Dr. Drew, forgive me. Dr. Drew was making the point that he's had prostate cancer and that the first
01:19:42.460
line of defense is this, it's called ADT and that it causes all sorts of side effects that
01:19:48.060
jibe with what looks like cognitive decline. And so from his standpoint, you know, more questions
01:19:54.520
have to be asked. Here's a little bit of that in SOT13. The thing that concerns me is we've seen
01:19:59.300
him decline over the last two years rather significantly. And one of the things that
01:20:02.740
happens with metastatic disease, the first line of treatment is something called androgen deprivation
01:20:06.480
therapy. That is where we block the testosterone essentially. We used to actually castrate men with
01:20:10.900
this, but now we do a androgen deprivation therapy, ADT. Side effect of ADT is cognitive slowing,
01:20:18.060
sometimes frank dementia, falls, muscle wasting. If somebody's Parkinsonian, they're more likely to
01:20:24.020
fall. All the things we have seen over the last couple of years could be explained on the basis of
01:20:30.540
androgen deprivation therapy. By the same token, there's a lot of controversy about the autopan and
01:20:36.240
should he have used it and did he know what was going on? Parkinsonisms makes you lose the ability
01:20:40.860
to write your name very often. They would have a perfect defense there just by saying, you know what,
01:20:45.400
the president no longer could sign his name, so he had to use the autopan. He approved every single
01:20:49.860
one of these pardons, say. We don't know what happened. Okay, so the other thing that's very
01:20:55.000
interesting about that, Anna, is we had a doctor on the program, Samadhi, David Samadhi, who is like
01:21:01.660
the prostate cancer surgeon to go to if you get this. And he said the fact that that initial statement
01:21:08.600
said that the cancer is responsive, it's hormone responsive, means they've tried it. Because he
01:21:15.020
said you don't know that until you've actually given, I think, ADT, the thing that blocks the
01:21:21.120
testosterone. There is no way they could say it's responsive to hormone treatment without having
01:21:26.080
given it to him and seeing the PSA test numbers go down, down, down. So all of that, I think, is
01:21:33.640
actual, like, that's as close as we're gonna get to real evidence that he is still lying to us. And so
01:21:40.420
I love your thoughts on that. And then also on, there's more chatter in the Times about how, sorry,
01:21:46.780
this is from the Bulwark, saying every Democrat from now on is gonna have to be under the age of 70,
01:21:55.900
and they're all gonna have to show, you know, their colonoscopy exams. It's gonna have to be
01:22:00.560
full revelation in order for anybody to become the next nominee.
01:22:06.200
I don't think that's fair. I wouldn't implement a policy like that. But, you know, as I was listening
01:22:12.480
to you talk about the likelihood of Biden having known about his condition, having gone through that
01:22:18.520
treatment, I couldn't help but think about all the enablers around Biden who encouraged him to run
01:22:23.840
for re-election and who kept lying to all of us on television and their interviews. You know, Mike
01:22:29.960
Donilon, his chief strategist, happened to be one of them. And I want to just briefly talk about
01:22:35.100
incentives and disincentives, because Donilon didn't care about the American people. Donilon,
01:22:41.340
I would venture to say, doesn't even give a damn about the Bidens or Joe Biden, with whom he's had a
01:22:46.540
relationship with for a very long time. I would venture to say that Donilon saw his re-election race
01:22:53.080
as a money-making opportunity, because as we've learned from Tapper and Thompson's book,
01:22:58.220
he was paid disproportionately compared to other campaign workers. He was paid, what,
01:23:04.400
$4 million? $4 million. Because, yeah, because Biden told the campaign, pay Donilon whatever he
01:23:10.620
wants. Well, he asked for $4 million and he got it. So if you see a money-making opportunity where
01:23:15.280
you can rake in millions of dollars, would you engage in elder abuse? I would venture to say that
01:23:20.020
most people would be disgusted by that and would not. But Donilon had no problem doing it.
01:23:25.140
Knowing what Biden's condition was, he's very close to Biden. I don't believe for a second that
01:23:30.200
Mike Donilon didn't know what Biden's condition was. No, no. And the reporting in the book is that
01:23:35.000
he fully knew and was actively engaged in trying to cover it up. Here's the other question, though.
01:23:40.720
Does the Democrat Party, you know, keep in mind, we're under the auspices of, oh my God,
01:23:47.900
we're now figuring it out. Oh, it's horrible. That's what, okay, this is the routine we're
01:23:51.920
getting right now. How do they nominate Kamala Harris for anything? How do they nominate Pete
01:23:58.880
Buttigieg or any other Biden cabinet member for anything? Because they all have the stank on them.
01:24:05.640
Look, I feel the same way when it comes to Morning Joe. How the hell is Mika Brzezinski and
01:24:12.380
Joe Scarborough still employed at MSNBC? I mean, isn't that a stain on the mark of that cable news
01:24:17.720
network? Like, let's just, I mean, they lied the loudest in the lead up to the election, but okay.
01:24:24.640
The most vigorously. I think that the establishment, the Democratic establishment is going to hope and bank
01:24:33.860
on people having short attention spans and just rally around Kamala Harris or whoever was in on
01:24:41.280
the cover up. I don't know if it's going to work. I would venture to say that it would be far, far
01:24:46.880
better for them to look for new, fresh faces, you know, make room for new leadership. But I mean,
01:24:55.820
it's like Gollum in the ring. It's like, oh, precious, precious. It's power. And they don't want
01:25:01.340
to let it go. And they've got to let it go. If you care about the country, if you care about doing
01:25:07.220
what's best, if you want to, for once in your life, actually serve as a public servant, do the right
01:25:13.260
thing and make room for fresh new leadership. But they're not going to do that. You know, I asked him
01:25:19.720
Tapper when he was here, because he was telling me that these people who are in his book now lied to him
01:25:25.300
when it was pre the election that he tried and they were lying. And I said, you know, what are you
01:25:31.420
going to do with like these cabinet secretaries or, and these other sources too, who now come on your
01:25:38.040
show and you know, they're liars. You know, they lied to you to protect him and their electoral
01:25:44.460
chances. You know, it's not like you just suspect it. Now you're telling me, you know it. So do you book
01:25:48.900
them again? Do you give them the platform on CNN? And he said, he'd have to think about it. I mean,
01:25:54.800
there's really nothing to think about. The answer is no. According to his theory,
01:25:59.680
they're responsible for his humiliation too. Right. Look, politicians lie, as we know,
01:26:08.960
all politicians lie on both sides of the political aisle. So if you take a pledge to never interview
01:26:14.400
a politician who has lied publicly or lied to you, you're never going to have an interview with a
01:26:18.960
politician again. So I can kind of see where he's coming from. What I would look out for the
01:26:24.780
as anyone watching cable news, I know that that audience is quickly dwindling, but nonetheless,
01:26:30.280
if you still watch cable news and you're still willing to give someone like Jake Tapper a chance,
01:26:34.980
pay close attention to whether he fact checks politicians, whether he asks tough follow-up
01:26:41.520
questions, or whether he's willing to just accept what figures from one political party have to say
01:26:47.640
at face value. Because I think that's what the problem was. You know, he had no problem
01:26:52.220
calling out the lies of Republican lawmakers or members of the Trump camp. But for whatever reason,
01:26:59.040
there seemed to be this favoritism toward the Democratic Party and Democratic figures,
01:27:03.940
and that's where he got himself into a lot of trouble. The other thing I would say,
01:27:07.920
and this isn't just for the media, this is just for voters of all political persuasions.
01:27:13.180
You know, there's a lot of tribalism in the country. I fell in that trap for a long time as
01:27:19.360
well, where I thought, you know, Republicans are lying about everything and I'm not going to believe
01:27:24.340
anything they have to say. They're just making things up. Well, because I had that mindset,
01:27:29.420
I actually missed some of what was going on in the country that they were trying to raise some alarm
01:27:36.320
about. And so don't automatically assume that your political opponents are bringing up issues that
01:27:43.040
don't really exist. They might be exaggerating. There might be some hyperbole, but it's worth
01:27:48.500
digging into to see if there's a legitimate concern. And I say the same for Republican voters as well.
01:27:55.280
Don't just write off Democrats as individuals you shouldn't listen to. And I'm specifically talking
01:28:01.200
about voters here, right? Love your fellow American, regardless of their political affiliation.
01:28:08.080
Okay. Obviously there are exceptions for people who make a point to be hateful, loathsome human
01:28:12.860
beings, but I don't think the majority of Americans fall in that category when it comes to people in
01:28:18.560
positions of power, whether they be Democrats or Republicans, hold them accountable, fact check them.
01:28:24.360
Don't just believe what they have to say at face value.
01:28:26.600
And happily, our audience is doing that right now as they listen to our guests this hour.
01:28:32.640
Anna Kasparian, stand by. We're going to take a quick break and we will be right back after this.
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01:31:51.620
Anna, we've talked before about men and women's sports, boys and girls sports, and there's another
01:31:56.740
instance of it that caught our attention that I wanted to raise. Out in California, they're still
01:32:03.000
doing this, notwithstanding the Trump executive order. He's fighting the main governor to try to
01:32:07.140
make her stop it, both at the college, which has largely been taken care of, but not entirely,
01:32:12.080
and also the high school, which has not been taken care of level at all. And in California,
01:32:16.760
where Gavin Newsom wants us to believe he thinks this is very unfair, he's completely allowing it
01:32:22.160
with no consequences. So they had a California girls track meet. It was, let's see,
01:32:31.260
the finals, the Southern section of California finals for track and field events on this past
01:32:38.780
Saturday. And there was a girl named Reese Hogan who has been working her butt off for the past
01:32:48.280
several years doing track since her freshman year. She's a junior now. We found a little background
01:32:54.080
on her. In her sophomore year, she started taking track more seriously. She recently got a private
01:32:59.640
coach. She puts in a ton of hours with that trainer. She also does volleyball, both beach and
01:33:04.960
club, and has to balance all of that while continually training for track. She trains every single day for
01:33:10.220
track, and she was on her way toward winning this regional final. So she landed her personal best
01:33:18.760
in the triple jump and a school record, too, of 37 feet, two inches at the Southern section finals.
01:33:27.540
Personal best, personal best, school record. She did not, however, win first place in the triple jump
01:33:33.920
because a male did. Someone who goes by the name of A.B. Hernandez, who's also a junior. And this boy
01:33:42.660
won the event by over four feet, 41 feet, four inches, which is a mile in the triple jump. He crushed her.
01:33:55.220
We happen to know that she and many of her other female athletes did not know the first year A.B.
01:34:02.720
started competing that he was actually a biological boy because he didn't tell anybody. But then when
01:34:07.760
they started watching him perform, it became very obvious he was far outmatching these girls.
01:34:14.360
And nonetheless, they allowed this guy to go atop the winner's podium and stand in the first place
01:34:21.780
slot. And everybody cheered for him like he was the legitimate winner. And when he stepped off of
01:34:29.980
that top most elevated post, she, Reese Hogan, got up there and stood. I'm actually kind of emotional
01:34:40.240
about it. She stood atop that podium so she could receive the applause for being the actual winner.
01:34:50.080
I'm just so tired of this. I'm so tired of this. He also won the long jump title, which he also stole
01:34:57.360
from another girl. What do you make of it? I think there's a reason why 80 percent of Americans
01:35:04.060
are not in favor of what you just described. 80 percent of Americans, according to polling,
01:35:12.280
find it to be deeply unfair because biology does matter. I don't think that transgender people
01:35:20.420
should be treated inhumanely, but I also don't think that we should create situations in which
01:35:26.120
women are treated unfairly. And in this case, it's just unfair. It's that simple. And by the way,
01:35:32.620
the governor of California, Gavin Newsom says that it's unfair. And I don't think it makes him look
01:35:39.740
better to on one hand say it's unfair and then on the other hand to just allow it to keep happening
01:35:45.820
in the state of California. But he wants to have his cake and eat it, too. And I don't think it's
01:35:51.740
going to work out that way because simply calling it unfair is enough to get the activists riled up and
01:35:57.500
angry with you. And you've done nothing to protect the fairness of women's sports in the state of
01:36:03.380
California. So basically, he's made everyone angry. No one's happy. And the unfairness continues.
01:36:09.920
Yep. Here he is, just as a reminder, on his own podcast telling Charlie Kirk how unfair he thinks
01:36:15.720
this would be. Would you do something like that? Would you say no men in female sports?
01:36:20.780
Well, I think it's an issue of fairness. I completely agree with you on that.
01:36:23.580
But it is an issue of fairness. So it's deeply unfair. Would you speak out against this young
01:36:27.320
man, A.B. Hernandez, who right now is going to win the state championship in the long term?
01:36:31.340
I can see you wrestling with it. No, I'm not wrestling. I'm not wrestling with the fairness
01:36:35.080
issue. I totally agree with you. So that's easy to call out, the unfairness of that.
01:36:39.000
There's also a humility and a grace that these poor people are more likely to commit suicide,
01:36:44.520
have anxiety and depression. And the way that people talk down to vulnerable communities is an
01:36:49.560
issue that I have a hard time with as well. So both things I can hold in my hand. How can we
01:36:55.400
address this issue with the kind of decency that I think is inherent in you, but not always expressed
01:37:04.600
He's done nothing. And Charlie raised this athlete. And let me just give you one other thing.
01:37:11.340
There's another athlete named Katie McGinnis. She's a track and athlete senior in this same region.
01:37:17.460
And last Saturday, Katie's long jump, a leap of 18 feet, 0.95 inches was, um, she was jumped,
01:37:28.820
she had jumped further than any girl across all four divisions that she was competing against.
01:37:37.060
18 feet and nine, nine and a half inches. Um, it was, I think, yeah, it was her,
01:37:44.880
her goal. She accomplished her goal of being a champion, but she was not recognized as such
01:37:52.000
because there was one person who did better. And that was the boy claiming to be a girl,
01:37:58.400
A.B. Hernandez, who not only took the triple jump medal from Reese Hogan, but the long jump medal
01:38:05.260
from Katie McGinnis, who also has been training for years for this. The long jump is her best event.
01:38:13.460
She has the longest long jump in California amongst all high school girls. She trains every day,
01:38:20.240
six days a week, year round. She's been training for four years. She's broken school records up and
01:38:26.620
down the board in track and no girl in all of California can jump farther than Katie. Only this
01:38:34.420
boy, A.B. Hernandez can do it and did do it. And these Californians still cheered and Gavin Newsom did
01:38:44.280
nothing. Anna. Yeah. I mean, Gavin Newsom is a slimy snake of a politician and I don't really know what
01:38:53.780
he believes. All I know is the person he fights for the hardest is himself. And so he'll say anything
01:39:01.060
to anyone if he thinks it's going to help him politically. And in the meantime, people in his
01:39:06.140
state continue to suffer. I want to just not to deflect because I think this is unfair and it's
01:39:12.100
gross for him to say so, but then do nothing about it. But I just want to give you a sense of how poorly
01:39:19.380
he has governed this state because now California, the highest tax state in this country, is facing a
01:39:28.420
$12 billion deficit. So he put out his budget proposal. He is proposing to make Medicaid
01:39:35.440
recipients, the poorest Americans among us, pay $100 a month in premiums to get Medicaid benefits.
01:39:43.000
So he's essentially punishing the poorest among us for his poor governance. He's a terrible politician,
01:39:50.840
terrible person. Yeah. And meanwhile, these girls continue to suffer. And while he gives lip service
01:39:56.380
when he's across from Charlie Kirk, including with respect to this particular athlete, this boy
01:40:01.260
posing as a girl, he does nothing to help them, nothing. And by the way, on that subject with Katie
01:40:06.060
McGinnis, who did the 18 foot, nine and a half inch, uh, 18, nine and a half inch, uh, jump. Her dad
01:40:13.600
points out she is, she can jump farther than any girl in the state of California. She's an elite jumper.
01:40:20.080
On the other hand, there are 780 boys in California this year who have jumped Katie's personal record
01:40:27.940
of 20 feet, four inches or further. It is much easier for the boys. They're taller,
01:40:35.060
they're stronger. They have more musculature. Their bones are longer. There's all sorts of
01:40:40.480
reasons why they beat us. And it's no insult to the girls to acknowledge that it is one to force
01:40:46.960
them to compete under these circumstances. Anna Kasparian, thank you. Thanks so much. It's great
01:40:51.080
to see you. Good to be here. Tomorrow, Maureen Callahan's here. You're going to love it.
01:40:57.040
Before we actually go, I just, I just wanted to continue on with that. I just have a couple of
01:41:01.200
other thoughts. We've talked a lot in this show about the dangers to women, you know, the basketball
01:41:07.900
players from that school Lowell in Massachusetts who were injured when that trans player, a boy
01:41:14.640
pretending to be a girl hurt them, uh, with the KIPP Academy. Remember that we've talked about the
01:41:19.680
girl, the field hockey player, uh, in Massachusetts who got her teeth knocked out and severe facial
01:41:25.700
injuries from playing against a biological boy. Uh, we've talked at length about Peyton McNabb.
01:41:31.980
There have been many other, many other situations. Um, and that's really, that's reason enough.
01:41:38.800
Just the obvious risk of putting your girl up against a post pubescent boy or even mid pubescent boy.
01:41:46.620
They, they, who, who even has to argue it? I mean, it's obvious. It's obvious what the risks are,
01:41:51.940
but, um, the unfairness is what we saw in this California situation track and field. There was
01:41:58.600
no danger to these girls of AB Hernandez hurting them on the long jump or the high jump. Um,
01:42:04.140
what is so powerful, so powerful about watching Reese Hogan step up on that top platform is the thing
01:42:15.960
I try to always mention when we discuss these stories, which is they're not just stealing medals
01:42:21.700
and potential scholarships. They're stealing the glorious feeling of victory from these girls.
01:42:30.260
They're stealing the joy and confidence builder of winning, which is something which matters.
01:42:41.160
How do you build a winner? Is it, you just come in second place all the time,
01:42:47.380
just come in second, no matter how hard you work, how hard you train, how many days a week,
01:42:51.740
how much you sacrifice. And they do sacrifice. They sacrifice their physical health. I guarantee you,
01:42:56.400
these girls have had injuries that they've had a nurse back because they trained so hard.
01:42:59.260
They sacrifice their grades oftentimes, because if you're an elite athlete like this,
01:43:04.100
you don't have time to study the way the girls who aren't doing this do. So you are taking the hit
01:43:08.860
and you're on the academic front. In all likelihood, you sacrifice time with your friends. You're not
01:43:13.420
going out for the late night parties on Fridays that happen, even when you're in high school that
01:43:18.360
are so fun and can be kind of important to making friends or finding a boyfriend. You're not doing that.
01:43:24.300
You're going to bed early because you have a very early morning track meet. I mean, I know,
01:43:28.580
I know a lot of these girls and they, they are gunners. They want it. They've got ambition. They've
01:43:36.200
got drive. They've got commitment and they deserve the chance to cross the finish line. First,
01:43:45.900
they deserve the ability to feel the feeling that comes from hearing your name read out as the winner
01:43:56.800
from seeing your personal best high job. Be obviously the winner because it's not just your
01:44:05.400
personal best. You bested every other girl in the state, but yet you still can't win in California.
01:44:11.880
You don't get the blue ribbon. You don't get the first place trophy. You don't get your name
01:44:18.080
mentioned first in the newspaper articles. It's wrong. It's wrong. I don't give two shits how good
01:44:26.760
it makes a B Hernandez feel. You're a cheater. You're cheating, sir. I'm sorry. Your school doesn't
01:44:36.700
appear to have an open category. That's not the problem or shouldn't be at least of Katie McGinnis
01:44:42.980
and Reese Hogan. You can still run with the boys, which is where you belong.
01:44:51.800
It's just so wrong. And the fact that this girl, can we just see the video again or she,
01:44:56.560
she gets up. We only have five seconds of it. She gets up on top on the top platform.
01:45:00.500
She kind of just sneaks up after it's over. Let's watch it. It's awful. It's awful. She's,
01:45:07.120
she's kind of almost embarrassed about it. You can see, and she shouldn't be. She's, there's nothing.
01:45:14.060
She has nothing to be embarrassed about. Gavin Newsom does. A.B. Hernandez does. The school district
01:45:20.540
does. Shame on them. Because even if you could give these girls scholarships, they deserve. And by the
01:45:28.740
way, don't think it's not happening. Don't think it's not happening that they're recruiting more and
01:45:31.820
more boys to play girls sports because it means you're going to win. It means you're going to win.
01:45:36.560
I mean, I, I told you the story. I, in Westchester County, I was told by a parent at a school,
01:45:41.400
a private school there, they got rid of their athletic director because that athletic director
01:45:46.660
was not recruiting enough boys to play girls hockey, ice hockey. And that's a disadvantage now.
01:45:56.400
So it's, it's, it's just, you're depriving them of something much more fundamental. You are depriving
01:46:03.780
them of confidence builders that girls must have to become their strongest, best selves that girls
01:46:11.040
are entitled to. It's their right. It is literally their right. If they're the best long jumper or high
01:46:19.340
jumper in the state of California, amongst all girls to have the top trophy, the blue ribbon,
01:46:32.620
I don't know. I mean, we elected Trump, he's fighting the good fight that Cretan Gavin Newsom
01:46:38.140
wants credit for being on our side, but doing fucking nothing, nothing about it.
01:46:43.980
I'm starting to rethink whether we should go on his show. You know what? Maybe I should make a
01:46:50.000
lobbying campaign to go on and we can just spend the whole time talking about this. You know, I
01:46:55.360
always say like my goal in an interview, if I'm doing it right, is not to emerge with the person's
01:46:59.780
jugular, figuratively speaking. It just might be if I were to sit across from him. Anyway, I just wanted
01:47:06.260
to add that because I didn't feel like I'd fully expressed what was so horrifying about that
01:47:11.020
situation and why her sneaking that moment on the top platform was so compelling and moved me so much.
01:47:22.060
Hope you feel the same and let's stay fighting the good fight. We're winning, but it's not over.
01:47:32.860
Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.