The Megyn Kelly Show - DeSantis Declares, and Target's ＂Tuck-Friendly＂ Backlash, with Victor Davis Hanson, Beth Karas, and Peter Tragos ｜ Ep. 557

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00:00:31.100 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest and provocative conversations.

00:00:42.320 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.700 A major moment today in the 2024 race for the White House.

00:00:50.000 Florida Governor Ron DeSantis will officially announce

00:00:52.940 he is entering the presidential campaign

00:00:55.840 and the way he's doing it is absolutely fascinating.

00:00:59.600 He's going to have a live Twitter Spaces event.

00:01:03.000 This is a way of speaking on Twitter about something with Elon Musk

00:01:07.460 and that conversation will be moderated by friend of The MK Show, David Sachs.

00:01:12.940 So it's going to be really interesting.

00:01:14.540 It's today at 6 p.m.

00:01:15.740 I'm really looking forward to seeing how this goes down.

00:01:18.160 He's in good hands with David moderating for sure.

00:01:21.000 And what this says about Elon is also part of the equation.

00:01:26.720 He's one of the most popular people in America right now.

00:01:28.620 And that's tough to be like who who can get support from both sides.

00:01:33.520 So, yes, the far left, like the Twitter left, doesn't like him.

00:01:36.000 But he's a popular guy, Elon Musk, for a good reason.

00:01:38.980 So this is a savvy move by Ron DeSantis.

00:01:42.000 The battle between DeSantis and Donald Trump is officially on.

00:01:44.840 And apparently so is the battle between Elon and Fox News.

00:01:49.960 That's part of what's interesting about the story.

00:01:52.280 Joining me now to discuss it all, Victor Davis Hanson.

00:01:55.560 VDH is back with us today.

00:01:56.820 He's a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and author of The Dying Citizen, How Progressive

00:02:03.060 Elites, Tribalism and Globalization Are Destroying the Idea of America.

00:02:08.540 Victor, welcome back.

00:02:09.480 Great to have you.

00:02:11.000 Thank you for having me, Megan.

00:02:12.920 So we'll get to what Elon's doing here.

00:02:15.500 Axios has a headline saying he's taken over from Rupert Murdoch as the new it guy in conservative

00:02:22.640 media, you know, the new power broker in conservative media.

00:02:25.180 It's an interesting theory.

00:02:26.820 But what do you make of DeSantis and this move to announce via and with in conversation

00:02:33.780 with Elon Musk?

00:02:36.620 Well, I think it's kind of a wise move.

00:02:38.560 It kind of removes him from the whole psychodrama going on with Tucker and Fox.

00:02:43.920 So he doesn't come down on one side or he gives all of his you would think he would give

00:02:50.020 an interview or come on Fox like the other candidates have done.

00:02:53.160 That was wise.

00:02:53.960 I think it really helps Elon Musk's Twitter brand, of course.

00:02:58.040 And I think that's in Ron DeSantis' favor.

00:03:00.820 But I think more importantly, he's trying to come across as somebody who has a completely

00:03:05.480 new ideas on all of these problems.

00:03:07.320 And one of them is the media.

00:03:08.880 How do you deal with the media?

00:03:10.120 And I think that's Donald Trump had mastered the idea of getting free media, billions of

00:03:16.680 dollars of free media, as we learned in 2016.

00:03:18.880 And with that CNN fiasco where he just dominated them and got a lot of free.

00:03:25.080 And I think DeSantis knows that he's not that's that's Trump's brand.

00:03:28.660 So he's looking for alternative but equally effective media strategy.

00:03:32.660 So it's pretty smart, I think, especially because Trump's he's over on true social.

00:03:37.660 He hasn't reemerged on Twitter, even though he's been alive back on, you know, per Elon,

00:03:42.440 some speculating that maybe Trump will use tonight around 6 p.m.

00:03:46.900 or maybe 6 20 to come back on Twitter and offer some thoughts on what we've just witnessed

00:03:52.720 between Elon DeSantis and David Sachs.

00:03:55.420 I don't know that's going to be that's that's kind of a dilemma, though, isn't it, Megan?

00:03:59.320 Because that's his that's his company.

00:04:01.840 And Devin Nunes is doing Herculean labors to get it, you know, mainstream.

00:04:06.700 And it depends on that mass following.

00:04:09.120 So anytime he goes on Twitter, he's diluting his own house brand and his own company.

00:04:15.920 And yet, if he doesn't go on Twitter, he seeds out an entire venue to his his rivals.

00:04:21.320 So I don't know what he's going to do.

00:04:23.040 It's it's that's why it's a clever move.

00:04:25.660 So and I want to talk about the candidate's reaction to him.

00:04:28.540 Nikki Haley has sort of emerged as Trump's right fist.

00:04:33.420 Right.

00:04:33.600 She's like the punch to a lot of these other candidates, in particular, DeSantis on behalf

00:04:39.060 of Trump.

00:04:39.560 So to me, that's a clear angling for a VP role for her in the Trump administration. 0.99

00:04:44.800 Right.

00:04:45.040 She came out and said in response to the suggestion that that that that DeSantis is Trump without

00:04:54.080 the controversy.

00:04:54.880 She said, no, he's he's Trump without the charm.

00:04:57.960 She comes out against DeSantis.

00:04:59.580 So she's already getting on him.

00:05:02.040 Trump's tweeting out or truthing out when Ron DeSantis needs is, quote, a personality

00:05:07.740 transplant.

00:05:08.460 It goes on to say, and to the best of my knowledge, they are not medically available yet.

00:05:12.920 Finishes it with a disloyal person.

00:05:16.340 It's a theme that we are going to hear a lot about DeSantis because he's like a little

00:05:20.840 socially awkward, even though his policies would probably be acceptable and pleasing to 90

00:05:26.720 plus percent of Republicans.

00:05:29.640 Yeah, you know, that's not I don't see any original critiques of DeSantis.

00:05:34.800 It's just boilerplate that he's not charismatic or even in the Trump ads.

00:05:40.280 There's nothing new there that is going to appeal to somebody and say, wow, I didn't know

00:05:44.980 this about DeSantis.

00:05:45.880 I didn't I didn't know that I think he's got his record in Florida and he's going to

00:05:51.900 defend it.

00:05:52.460 But this idea that Nikki Haley, she said she did she played the same role.

00:05:59.760 You remember with Disney and she said, if Disney's welcome to come over. 0.92

00:06:03.040 And that was I think that was a very stupid thing to say, because Disney had 48, 40 acres 0.91

00:06:08.680 of free stuff worth billions of dollars. 0.99

00:06:11.400 And it was abusing that concession and she just missed that.

00:06:17.320 And so I don't think it's going to work to say Ron DeSantis is not as charismatic as

00:06:22.820 Donald Trump.

00:06:23.740 His message is I'm going to get even.

00:06:26.480 I'm not going to get mad.

00:06:28.180 And we're looking forward and not back.

00:06:30.360 And that goes as far as the other candidates.

00:06:33.280 I don't see any.

00:06:34.460 I think you're right.

00:06:35.120 They're all running for either top cabinet posts or vice presidencies.

00:06:38.400 And I don't see any of them breaking out.

00:06:41.200 The big critical thing is if you add up all the non-Trump percentages, it's pretty much

00:06:47.160 equal or ahead of Trump.

00:06:48.380 But that's exactly what happened in 2016.

00:06:51.040 And they never coalesced.

00:06:52.900 And so it'll be interesting to see to what degree DeSantis will appeal to everybody and

00:06:59.320 say, you know, lend me the support.

00:07:01.300 Or they're going to say he doesn't have a chance.

00:07:03.020 And I'm not going to do that because I want to be a vice president or secretary of state

00:07:06.140 or attorney general.

00:07:07.380 So that's going to be a lot of positioning.

00:07:10.960 The Disney thing is becoming an issue for him.

00:07:13.640 A lot of conservatives love it.

00:07:15.620 Some are learning to dislike it.

00:07:17.740 And that's some of the messaging we're hearing from people like Nikki Haley.

00:07:21.360 Even Carrie Lake, who's firmly in the Trump camp, came out with a line that you could have 1.00

00:07:26.420 predicted that that is he couldn't even win over Donald Duck.

00:07:30.620 How is he going to win over Donald Trump?

00:07:33.340 Because Disney has dug in now.

00:07:35.580 And I think it was Nikki Haley said, look, he could have had 2000 jobs in Florida. 1.00

00:07:39.640 He ruined that opportunity because of this stupid fight. 0.99

00:07:43.880 Some saying, look, Disney was critical of this allegedly don't say gay bill, which, of 1.00

00:07:48.640 course, it wasn't anything of the sort.

00:07:50.160 But that's what the left named it.

00:07:51.920 Let Disney say what it's going to say.

00:07:53.620 Whatever.

00:07:54.140 It's a woke corporation.

00:07:55.280 Why pick a fight like this?

00:07:56.540 That's going on and on.

00:07:57.680 It's cost Florida jobs now. 0.80

00:07:59.020 How big an issue, if any, do you think the Disney thing is going to be for him?

00:08:04.660 I don't think it's it might be now, but I don't think it's going to be an issue.

00:08:08.640 It also it depends also on how well he's able to stream this criticism of Disney and to

00:08:16.000 criticism the general repugnance that what the L.A.

00:08:19.860 Dodgers did with the Sisters of Perpetual, those people and Bud Light and this pattern

00:08:25.960 that these once successful corporations, once they go woke or once they enter in to controversial

00:08:31.720 issues that are all anti-traditional America, they don't they lose.

00:08:36.280 And if he can say, you know what, I'm just standing out for not just traditional values

00:08:42.480 in Florida, but we're not going to get exemptions for these people if they're going to be political.

00:08:46.820 If he can make that argument, why do they get 40 acres where they basically rule as a private

00:08:52.460 medieval fiefdom exempt from all statutory regulations in Florida government control if

00:08:58.380 they're going to weigh in on things that are highly controversial?

00:09:01.740 And that if he can say this is exactly what Bud is doing, this is exactly what they did

00:09:06.420 with the airlines on the All-Star game two years ago.

00:09:08.740 This is exactly what the Dodgers are doing.

00:09:10.560 And if they want to do it, fine, but we're not going to give them any extra exemptions

00:09:15.420 or any extra help.

00:09:16.440 I think that's a winning message.

00:09:17.940 And I think I don't think that I don't think it's going to help for conservatives to start

00:09:23.040 defending Disney on this matter, because if you look at the polls, they're pretty evenly split

00:09:28.240 and Disney is losing a lot of money on subscribers and attendance and stock value.

00:09:34.900 And so I think long term, it's in DeSantis' interest, I think.

00:09:39.220 I know that, you know, the messaging from Team Trump is the way it is for a reason, you

00:09:44.060 know, a political reason, and it's a good reason to attack him.

00:09:47.900 But the truth is, one of the reasons people love Trump is he showed Republicans how to

00:09:52.340 fight.

00:09:52.960 And that's what DeSantis is trying to do with this Disney fight.

00:09:55.780 I mean, he maybe he will lose.

00:09:57.500 Maybe this won't wind up in a perfect solution.

00:09:59.840 But he's trying, as Ben Shapiro said the day after DeSantis picked the Disney fight, to teach

00:10:05.640 the F around and find out message to these woke corporations.

00:10:10.660 And that's one of the reasons why people are cheering it.

00:10:14.240 It's not really about the outcome.

00:10:15.860 It's about punishing them and teaching them.

00:10:19.380 There will be consequences to you that could be potentially painful, maybe long term, but

00:10:23.720 definitely short term if you do this kind of thing.

00:10:27.660 Yeah, I think you're right.

00:10:28.340 I think what's happening now is that we've they push the envelope so much, the left on

00:10:32.960 every issue.

00:10:34.360 And the right has been solemn.

00:10:36.560 And now they're waking up and they're saying, you know what?

00:10:39.300 We have power.

00:10:40.440 We have almost destroyed Bud Light.

00:10:42.460 We're 24 percent down.

00:10:44.240 And with the Los Angeles Dodgers in a community of greater Los Angeles that has 12 million people,

00:10:49.540 six million of whom are either Mexican-Americans or Mexican nationals, most the vast majority

00:10:55.400 Catholic, and many of them L.A. Dodgers that has a lot of Latino players, if they're going

00:11:00.040 to go out and deliberately offend that constituency, that's insane.

00:11:04.180 And we're not we're going to boycott that.

00:11:06.200 And we're going to tell them that we do not want that. 0.63

00:11:08.620 These people who basically have pornographic street theater where they emulate sex with the 0.98

00:11:14.820 Holy Trinity and Catholic ritual, all of that.

00:11:18.040 So in the long term, it's not a winning issue.

00:11:21.000 And all they're doing is galvanizing conservatives to say, you know what?

00:11:23.900 We don't have the institutions.

00:11:25.360 We don't have the money they do, but we have the people.

00:11:28.240 And once we get going, it becomes almost a snowball effect.

00:11:33.200 And I don't think anybody in Disney thought they they were going to suffer.

00:11:36.680 I don't think anything anybody in Bud thought they were going to suffer.

00:11:39.920 I don't think anybody at Fox News thought they were going to suffer.

00:11:43.120 I don't think anybody at the Dodgers thinks they will suffer.

00:11:46.100 And I think they'll suffer the most.

00:11:48.260 Let's talk about the Dodgers because we haven't run that story by our audience yet, though.

00:11:51.280 They may have heard it elsewhere by this point.

00:11:53.040 So the L.A. Dodgers, on their Pride Night, invited this group to come and be honored.

00:11:59.040 And it turned into this big deal because this group, it's called Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence,

00:12:06.320 mocks nuns.

00:12:07.140 That's what they do.

00:12:08.040 They have men who dress as nuns and behave in debasing kind of ways. 0.98

00:12:14.940 And they mock the Catholic Church.

00:12:16.860 And they think this is just downright hilarious.

00:12:19.280 Well, Catholics don't really agree.

00:12:22.080 And they complained a little.

00:12:23.860 Marco Rubio sent a letter saying this is really offensive.

00:12:26.900 He wrote the sisters, quote unquote, are men who dress in lewd imitations of Roman Catholic nuns.

00:12:32.280 The group's motto, go and sin some more, is a perversion of Jesus's command to go and sin no more.

00:12:37.720 The group's Easter ceremony features children's programming, followed by a drag show where adult performers dress in blasphemous imitations of Jesus and Mary.

00:12:46.060 The group hosts pub crawls, mocking the Stations of the Cross, even the Eucharist, the sacrament that unites more than one billion Catholics around the world.

00:12:53.260 Now, that's all well and good.

00:12:54.900 This is America.

00:12:55.480 America, you can mock religion if you want to. 0.67

00:12:57.380 Bill Maher did a whole movie doing exactly that.

00:12:59.480 But to be honored at Pride Night by a mainstream group like the L.A. Dodgers with the accompanying statement, mission statement of the night to which is we want to be as inclusive and welcoming to everyone as we can, is extremely controversial.

00:13:20.360 So Marco Rubio sent a letter and the Dodgers back down and said, hey, we didn't mean to cause controversy.

00:13:25.580 We disinvited them.

00:13:26.560 Well, then the trans community stood up and they are the most vicious activists in America and they caved. 1.00

00:13:32.380 The Dodgers caved, brought them back.

00:13:34.940 Now they're being honored in particular.

00:13:36.400 They're getting some sort of award.

00:13:37.560 So they've actually been elevated.

00:13:39.300 And this is because what?

00:13:42.020 Because Catholics don't tend to march in the streets.

00:13:44.820 They wrote a letter via Marco Rubio, one of our most famous Catholics.

00:13:48.160 But that's it.

00:13:48.940 We're not going to threaten them.

00:13:50.640 We're not going to be vicious the way these trans activists are.

00:13:54.000 That's not the way we tend to behave.

00:13:55.600 And they know it.

00:13:58.280 Yeah, up to now they do.

00:14:00.260 And again, I think they're going to have a bud effect because that community, anybody goes down to Los Angeles the last 20 years, it's one of the largest Mexican communities in the world.

00:14:12.760 And they're staunch Catholics.

00:14:14.380 And they've already expressed outrage when trans activists broke into, and abortion activists have broken into masses in Los Angeles.

00:14:22.420 People, Mexican-American people in attendance forcibly removed them.

00:14:28.100 And I can tell you, that's one issue here where I live in a community that's 95% Mexican-American.

00:14:35.260 And I have siblings that have been married to Mexican-American women. 0.97

00:14:38.160 And I can tell you that is an issue that does not resonate with the Mexican-American community, the Latino community, radical transgender activism.

00:14:46.120 The other thing about it is they're not just asking them, Megan, to perform.

00:14:52.440 As you said, they're rewarding and honoring them as if they're valuable social activists in the sense of equity, inclusion.

00:15:02.140 But that's not what they really do.

00:15:03.480 They mock people.

00:15:04.600 They try to hurt people.

00:15:06.100 And you know what?

00:15:06.660 They act like they're very brave and on the barricades of social and cultural change.

00:15:10.440 But they would never do this and mock Muslims or Hindus.

00:15:13.500 They would know if they did this against Islam, they would be terrified.

00:15:18.100 So they're very selective in their targets of outrage.

00:15:22.500 You can argue that the Islamic community is less tolerant of transgendered issue than is the Christian community.

00:15:29.940 And yet they won't say one word globally or in the United States.

00:15:35.000 So all of these people, and then they're reacting to the Hollywood, Malibu, Los Angeles entertainment pressure,

00:15:40.640 which does not represent 50% of the people.

00:15:44.300 And I think they just don't understand that if somebody from Hollywood calls them up or some big financier from Malibu,

00:15:52.120 and they react to that on issues of transgenderism, they don't know about the people that make L.A. run.

00:15:58.600 These are the people who are taking out your trash or waiting on tables.

00:16:03.020 They're in construction.

00:16:04.060 They're fixing things.

00:16:05.980 They don't have any idea what those people think.

00:16:08.120 So I think it's going to be a disastrous turn of events for the Dodgers.

00:16:12.040 And the fact that they caved and looked very weak.

00:16:14.940 I mean, everything they said initially by revoking that invitation, what does that mean now?

00:16:23.040 Does that mean they weren't sincere the first time?

00:16:24.840 Or they put their finger in the wind and just decide where the perceived money and influence was?

00:16:29.900 Yeah, well, so we'll get back to the other controversies that you ticked off because there are updates on all of them, Bud Light and Fox News and so on.

00:16:37.340 But I want to stay on DeSantis for a minute.

00:16:40.760 The reaction to him, I mean, just for the people who think he's Trump without the baggage.

00:16:44.900 OK, he will be Trump without the tweets.

00:16:46.700 I think, you know, to some extent that may be true.

00:16:48.580 I don't know.

00:16:49.080 You know, some people think he's going to be more like a Paul Ryan type Republican.

00:16:52.820 I don't know about that, but I don't think he's going to have the errant tweets.

00:16:56.540 But, Victor, you tell me, I don't think it matters because the left will paint him as just as erratic and incendiary and racist and sexist and all the ists as Trump.

00:17:08.920 One hundred percent.

00:17:10.000 It's already starting.

00:17:11.580 I'll give you an example.

00:17:14.180 This is from the NAACP president, Derek Johnson, who had these thoughts on DeSantis on CNN.

00:17:22.340 Listen.

00:17:24.220 We should not use race or othering as a tool to weaponize against people.

00:17:30.300 And unfortunately for a large percentage of the Floridians, that's what he has done.

00:17:35.540 Therefore, we are advising African-Americans and others that if you travel to Florida, beware that your life is not valued.

00:17:44.080 We didn't end here overnight.

00:17:45.660 It was because of the election.

00:17:47.000 So we have to prepare for the next election so we can get rid of him once and for all.

00:17:51.540 Well, it's unbelievable, you know, all the narrative like, but Trump, you know, he doesn't he incenses people more than DeSantis.

00:18:00.560 Well, guess again, it's the little R after your name that makes them really upset.

00:18:05.380 Yeah, I mean, it's absurd.

00:18:08.020 We have 10 cities where blacks are being slaughtered in the inner city and he didn't mention any of those places.

00:18:13.500 Why does he have a travel work to Chicago or Baltimore or Los Angeles? 0.93

00:18:16.640 That's a dangerous place if you're a young black person to walk anywhere. 1.00

00:18:19.980 And as people have pointed out, they have the second number of black businesses. 0.97

00:18:24.520 They had a black gubernatorial candidate.

00:18:27.160 They have 3.3 million blacks living there.

00:18:30.000 The chairman of the NAACP board lives in Florida.

00:18:33.460 And then he was embarrassed and said, well, I've lived here my entire adult life.

00:18:39.240 What do you want me to do?

00:18:40.180 Well, why don't you just say, I don't want any African-Americans visiting me here in my home because it's too dangerous. 1.00

00:18:46.220 They can't come and visit me.

00:18:47.840 That's what I've advocated publicly.

00:18:49.280 But it's not dangerous, apparently, for me to live here.

00:18:51.280 And you know what, it's this jumping the shark on all of these issues that people are starting to say, you know what, this is surrealistic.

00:19:00.320 This is pushing the envelope so far that we're in a cultural malice revolution, whether it's the Dodgers and the transgender or Bud Light or the NAACP or what we saw on the subway. 0.79

00:19:13.020 And the common denominator on all of these themes is it's absolutely absurd.

00:19:17.560 And people are saying, you know what, what can't go on won't go on.

00:19:20.780 Here in California, Megan, we had the $800 billion reparations and we're $32 billion in debt on our annual deficit.

00:19:31.780 Nobody knows where the money comes from.

00:19:33.460 Nobody knows after eight generation who's a victim and who's a victimizer.

00:19:37.160 We were not a slave state.

00:19:38.380 And so the head of the reparations board said, well, you know what, we're willing to take installment payments.

00:19:44.800 We're willing to take installment payments.

00:19:46.720 What kind of mindset in this country has led to this craziness?

00:19:53.020 And we all were honoring BLM and BLM.

00:19:55.980 And then it was just announced that it's lost millions of dollars because of rampant indiscriminate spending, mansions for the former leadership and crony hiring of their own siblings.

00:20:06.960 And it can't leverage corporations anymore about guilt or protection money after the riots.

00:20:13.760 That doesn't work anymore.

00:20:15.260 So they don't have any.

00:20:16.260 And that was the big cause celeb all for the last two years.

00:20:19.300 So I think it's all coming to a head. 0.88

00:20:21.500 And people are saying, these people are crazy. 0.90

00:20:24.440 They're detached from reality. 0.84

00:20:26.300 And they're pushing these cultural, social, revolutionary changes that it's Maoist.

00:20:35.060 And they're not going to get away with it because now people see that if you were to enact what they're doing on energy and the border, on race, you wouldn't have a country left.

00:20:42.580 So I think we're on the verge of a great revival or something or a correction.

00:20:49.560 The constant messaging on race, as we saw there. 0.79

00:20:52.600 OK, black people, it's not safe for them to go to Florida anymore. 1.00

00:20:54.860 Got it. 0.99

00:20:55.400 OK, nor LGBTQ, whatever people. 1.00

00:20:57.880 That's not OK either.

00:20:59.380 It's really gotten to the point of absurdity, as evidenced by this view clip.

00:21:03.080 Forgive me for playing Joy Behar.

00:21:04.520 But this was her reaction to Tim Scott entering the race as well, suggesting he really just doesn't understand what it's like to be a black man in America.

00:21:15.900 This is from Joy Behar.

00:21:17.100 Listen.

00:21:18.580 And he's one of these guys who, you know, he's like Clarence Thomas, black Republican who believes in pulling yourself by your bootstraps, rather than to me, understanding the systemic racism that African-Americans face in this country and other minorities.

00:21:32.080 He doesn't get it.

00:21:33.400 Neither does Clarence.

00:21:35.080 Right.

00:21:35.320 And that's why they're Republicans.

00:21:37.040 Yeah.

00:21:40.840 They don't get it, Victor.

00:21:42.340 They need to be like, unlike Joy, who's actually worn blackface and ABC celebrated it by putting it on the air. 0.98

00:21:48.580 She I guess she has a better idea of what it's like to be a black person in America than Tim Scott or Clarence Thomas.

00:21:55.540 Yeah.

00:21:56.020 She wouldn't last one day in a house without indoor plumbing the way that Clarence Thomas grew up.

00:22:01.640 And so I think that's another thing that people are really tired of.

00:22:06.020 And that's the bicoastal, wealthy, white, liberal elite that's never subject to the consequences of their own crackpot ideology.

00:22:12.740 It's easy to spout all of that stuff.

00:22:14.740 But if you look at the way that Joy Behar lives, her income and who she associates with, it's pretty much an apartheid existence as all these people.

00:22:23.240 And they're totally discredited. 0.95

00:22:25.680 And so in there, you know what, it's like Joe, it's just like Joe Biden, who lectured us on, hey, junkie, you ain't black. 0.78

00:22:35.460 Barack Obama is the first black person that can speak well and clean.

00:22:40.000 James Eastland was a great guy.

00:22:42.560 And Robert Byrd, I'll give the eulogies to, I don't want my kids growing up in a racial genre, call his assistant's boy.

00:22:51.660 And then Biden gets up after all of that and lectures us about the great danger of white supremacy and racism.

00:22:58.340 And it's all reduced down, I think, Megan, to the fact that they have completely lost.

00:23:04.460 The left has the white working class. 0.80

00:23:06.740 It doesn't, it's overwhelmingly not for the left anymore.

00:23:10.900 And they need not the black vote, but they need 96% of the black vote. 0.95

00:23:15.920 And any slight defection of that or fall off and turnout and they're dead. 0.99

00:23:21.540 And they know that.

00:23:22.660 They have a thin margin of error.

00:23:24.240 So what they do is they just keep pounding that issue, pounding that issue that without this white, bi-coastal privilege elite, that black Americans would be at the mercy of, I don't know, people in East Palestine, Ohio or something. 0.54

00:23:38.940 And I think that's not going to work.

00:23:41.520 But they're going to, they're definitely going to try to say it.

00:23:43.560 They're going to try it.

00:23:45.100 They're going to try it.

00:23:46.480 Even worse than Trump.

00:23:47.680 I turned on the television today, Megan, and the uncle of Jordan Neely, the person who was killed on the subway, was lecturing us about Penny.

00:23:59.120 He just got arrested for theft.

00:24:02.660 He had not 42 arrests.

00:24:04.680 He had 70 arrests.

00:24:06.480 And he had two outstanding arrest warrants.

00:24:09.680 And he's lecturing us about what Penny did to his nephew.

00:24:15.080 And he has trumped his nephew's lawlessness.

00:24:18.000 And the idea that the left can make this perpetual criminal into some Christlike figure.

00:24:22.820 And Penny, who was a Marine and tried to, I think, perceived he was protecting people who were otherwise vulnerable on the subway into a demon.

00:24:31.920 It's beyond surreal.

00:24:33.520 And, again, I don't think all this, I say it's not sustainable, not that I think that it's going to collapse and they won't, they'll quit.

00:24:43.120 But if they were to win, the country wouldn't be functioning because it's ultimately nihilist.

00:24:48.800 All the topics we've talked about, they're nihilist.

00:24:51.660 They don't, they don't, they intrude into their very lives and they alter them to such a degree that it's not any longer an America.

00:24:59.540 And it has a lot of ramifications globally.

00:25:02.880 The Chinese are delighted about all this.

00:25:05.180 Yeah.

00:25:05.580 Do you, do you think, though, that DeSantis has a chance?

00:25:09.480 Because, you know, the latest poll shows Trump's average of all polls.

00:25:13.200 He's up, I think it's 33 points over DeSantis.

00:25:15.820 The most recent poll has him up.

00:25:18.260 He's at 61.

00:25:19.240 DeSantis is at 16.

00:25:20.740 Let me give you a flavor for where we think DeSantis' message will go because they've released a campaign video yesterday called America is Worth the Fight.

00:25:29.100 It's a little preview, probably, of what we're going to hear tonight and how he's going to kick off the campaign, the messaging.

00:25:34.080 Listen to that and tell you, and then you tell me whether you think he can get past the 800-pound gorilla.

00:25:38.000 They call it faith because in the face of darkness, you can see that brighter future, a faith that our best days lay ahead of us.

00:25:47.980 But is it worth the fight?

00:25:50.720 Do I have the courage?

00:25:52.740 Is it worth the sacrifice?

00:25:55.640 America has been worth it every single time.

00:25:59.660 Okay, good ad.

00:26:04.560 Makes you feel a little something.

00:26:05.600 Doesn't have him speaking.

00:26:06.780 Doesn't have him speaking, probably for a reason.

00:26:08.940 But what do you think?

00:26:10.800 Yeah, I think the big question is, if we were to go back in time to 2016, we were looking at America's governor, Scott Walker.

00:26:19.920 He was in a purple state.

00:26:21.040 He turned it red.

00:26:22.000 He took on the unions.

00:26:23.400 He was divisive within a state.

00:26:25.540 But everybody said he's a can-do guy.

00:26:28.200 He has this record.

00:26:29.140 And he got on the debate stage.

00:26:31.660 And Donald Trump destroyed him in the first debate.

00:26:35.240 I don't think that's going to happen.

00:26:37.020 But my point in raising that is that I think DeSantis knows that.

00:26:41.000 And I don't see why we don't want an open primary.

00:26:44.900 I think it would be good for the party.

00:26:46.520 The only thing I would advise DeSantis is, I think it would be wise for him to say now, when he's down in the polls, that he will support the nominee.

00:26:58.720 And he expects, more importantly, that every candidate will support the nominee and pledge so now.

00:27:05.040 Because in 2016, they did that pledge and they all reneged on it.

00:27:09.140 Or I shouldn't say all, but many of them did.

00:27:11.560 To Trump's, it hurt Trump.

00:27:13.200 And I think it would be good for Trump to say, and I think he would probably feel no compunction about saying it, that he would support the nominee because he's assured that he thinks it's going to be himself.

00:27:22.440 But it would help everybody in the party to just, for DeSantis to say that especially.

00:27:27.580 And I think that would, because I think he's going, we're going to see, I think we're going to see a surge.

00:27:33.040 We're going to see a surge in his fundraising, and we're going to see a surge as his candidacy continues.

00:27:41.640 I'm not sure that it's wise for those, these Trump nightly commercials to attack him from the left almost.

00:27:47.760 They're attacking him on Social Security, on budgeting, on attack, and going after Disney.

00:27:52.660 And I don't know how you can say that he's not, on one hand, a lot of the operatives are saying he's not a true conservative.

00:28:00.300 But when you actually look at, on abortion, and on Disney, and on budgeting, and Social Security, Trump's commercials are attacking him from the left.

00:28:09.740 And they're saying he's too much of a right-wing zealot.

00:28:12.260 And I think it would be much smarter for Trump to run commercials that don't attack DeSantis personally and just say, we've got a lot of people that want to inherit, you know, the MAGA mantle.

00:28:25.140 But it's like having sunshine without the sun.

00:28:28.800 You need the sun, and the sun is me.

00:28:31.040 And something like that.

00:28:32.320 But if you're going to, but otherwise, the idea that in that midterm election, that the one bright spot was Florida, and how he changed that state, and everybody agreed with him, left, right, independent, and then to go after him as some, I don't think it's viable. 0.78

00:28:50.360 I know the, I understand the strategy to strangle the baby in the cradle right away, hit him so quick, so hard, that he implodes, or says something stupid, or, but I don't think, if he survives this initial assault, I think he's going to gain traction.

00:29:05.440 And I think, in a strange way, all of these timed, left-wing, unfair, vicious ads against Trump, Bragg hands off to Lutita James, she hands off to Willis, Willis hands off to Smith. 0.93

00:29:18.480 Thousand cuts, and you're going to see Trump in court, or being sued, or government indictments from now until the election.

00:29:27.660 And at some point, if he can't stop that, people are going to say, this is so unfair, but I'm tired, it's monotonous.

00:29:35.440 And so, he's got to find a way to circumvent that, and attacking on social media, these particular DAs, rather than, you know, there's a way to defend himself, and gain empathy, without playing into their hands.

00:29:50.260 So, you can see what the left is doing, they're going back to 2016, and that is, build Trump up, give him empathy, but at the same time, ensure that if he, when he gets a nominee, he's not going to be a viable candidate.

00:30:03.420 Well, and on that front, Victor, we just found out, we just found out that this trial of the Alvin Bragg criminal case against Trump, you know, his bookkeeping, around the stormy Daniels, hush payments, has now been scheduled for March 25th, 2024, which would make it three weeks after Super Tuesday.

00:30:25.640 The New York Times reports that Trump, who appeared via video at the hearing, appeared to react angrily when the trial date was announced by the judge, that his microphone was muted, and it was unclear what he was saying to the lawyer seated next to him.

00:30:40.020 There's no video of it that we've seen. It's just the Times reporters in the court saw it. That, that's all by design. I mean, this is 100% a political prosecution of Trump.

00:30:52.160 And it's, as you point out, you listed the names of the prosecutors sniffing around him as well. Um, the one in Atlanta, the, the special counsel, they are going to come for him. Those other two cases, if anything, are stronger. This New York case is a joke.

00:31:04.780 I don't believe in the other two cases either. But if you had to stack them, you'd say the other ones have a better shot, um, legally, just on the papers. And so they are going to come for him. And you're right. This is going to be the albatross around. I mean, maybe that's what DeSantis is thinking too, that I don't need to take down the gorilla. You know, Alan Bragg's going to do it.

00:31:22.760 No, I think that's, I've looked through all of what he's said, and I think I can, I think you and I can see a pattern with DeSantis and it's sort of, I get, even he gets mad.

00:31:34.360 That are more like, this is horrible what they're doing to Donald Trump, but they're doing it to you as well as to Donald Trump. He is the avatar, but they're going after you. And at this late date in this Republic, we have no margin of error. We can't afford to give them any ammunition. So I can tell you that while they'll go after me, I'm not going to have the same exposure as Donald Trump. There's not going to be a stripper in my past or any woman that comes forward, et cetera, et cetera.

00:32:03.020 In other words, he's, he's going to have to thread that needle to show empathy for the horrendous things they're doing to Donald Trump. But at the same time, suggesting that it's really, it's not all about Donald Trump as Donald Trump, as he will say, is making it.

00:32:21.180 It's about an attack on traditional America and any resistance against this progressive project. And more importantly, I'm not going to give him the exposure and endanger you guys.

00:32:31.400 So that's the messaging. But also for DeSantis, it's a waiting game. Just wait, you know, while the little boat is bobbing next to you in the water and some third party just keeps loading it up with heavy weights. All you have to do is wait long enough for the boat to go down and then you're still there.

00:32:50.400 I mean, that's got to be part of his strategy because Trump's biggest threat is most likely these Democrat prosecutors and Ron DeSantis can count on them.

00:32:58.780 He can condemn them. He can say they're terrible. But as a political matter, let's face it, he's probably rooting for it.

00:33:04.320 You know, as we find out tonight at 6 p.m., he wants the same job Trump has.

00:33:08.440 All right. Stand by, Victor. There's so much more to get to. We're going to squeeze in a quick break.

00:33:11.700 Much, much more with VDH on the opposite side of this.

00:33:14.200 So a couple of updates for you. Victor Bud Light remains, as you point out, down 25 percent in its sales.

00:33:23.700 That was as of the May 13th week ending, which is the most recent data we have.

00:33:27.420 Meanwhile, the Human Rights Campaign, which is the group that gives these corporate equality index scores, and it's an absurd thing.

00:33:35.660 They used to be sort of a normal gay rights group. Now they've gone completely over the line when it comes to trans issues.

00:33:43.340 And unless you believe a man can become a woman and has access to all women's spaces, they're going to downgrade your score. 0.99

00:33:48.940 They're threatening Bud Light. They're now threatening Anheuser-Busch, saying we have suspended your corporate equality index score.

00:33:54.360 Well, while while you consider your behavior in not more vocally supporting the Dylan Mulvaney campaign, no response as far as we can find yet from Bud Light to that.

00:34:07.300 But they're hemorrhaging, hemorrhaging, hemorrhaging sales.

00:34:09.780 The woman who runs Human Rights Campaign, by the way, is named Kelly Robinson.

00:34:13.140 She worked as a political organizer organizer for Obama's campaign in 08. 0.75

00:34:17.080 She recently tweeted trans women are women. That's it. That's the tweet.

00:34:23.220 So what do you think Bud Light is likely to do now while under threat on its corporate equality index from the Human Rights Quick campaign, understanding that its sales are evaporating?

00:34:37.800 Yeah, I think they're going to run an internal survey or they're going to conduct, I should say, an external survey and find out who is the more responsible for the drop off, whether it's the trans community or middle America.

00:34:51.900 And then they're going to make the necessary adjustments. And they should understand they should learn from history about the wages of appeasement.

00:34:58.520 You can't appease these people. The more that you appease them, the more they look at that weakness to be exploited rather than to be returned with magnanimity.

00:35:06.100 They don't look at that way. It's for them. It's power.

00:35:08.520 People who are weak deserve to be exploited. And same thing with the Dodgers. Once you give in to them, and you know that, Megan, when they come after you or me or anybody, that when you start to apologize, if you try to contextualize it, you're just asking for more.

00:35:24.600 They don't care.

00:35:25.040 And anybody who does, you lose your supporters. And I think, why should I support him or this company when they won't support themselves?

00:35:32.900 And so they've crossed the Rubicon. And whether they like it or not, their constituency is middle America and they've got to have to win it back or they're going to go and they're going to have to, they're going to be in big trouble.

00:35:42.780 So Target is dealing with a similar incident right now because Target decided it would be a great idea to partner with a company that, as far as I can tell, one of its main lines seems to be some sort of pro-Satan line of clothing. 0.86

00:35:56.400 They decided to willingly partner with this clothing manufacturer to make Pride Month gear that includes bathing suits that are, quote, tuck friendly, that have extra material around the crotch, which no woman needs because we don't have penises down south in Rio. 0.64

00:36:15.300 We don't need extra material and we don't need tuck friendly. But the Target CEO is out there defending this, saying, look, the extra crotch wear and the tuck friendly bathing suits are important.

00:36:30.460 That this whole line in the Pride department is a good business decision. It's the right thing for society. That's why they decided to do it.

00:36:38.640 But if you look at the individual targets across America, they're feeling the wrath of the consumer, so much so that Fox News reported yesterday that states like South Carolina, Georgia, the more southern, more conservative states are now having to move the entire display into the back corners because they've had so many irate customers.

00:36:57.840 I'm sure it includes a lot of parents going in there saying, get this out of here. I don't want to look at it. I don't want my kid to look at it. And I don't want to shop here if you're promoting it.

00:37:07.260 Yeah. So, Megan, the question is, then, why did they do these things? And I think part of it is the vast transformation in corporate culture.

00:37:16.140 It used to be that if you made it to an ad executive or a corporate, you were a guy who started delivering Coca-Cola, maybe.

00:37:23.520 And then you worked up, you were a salesman, you were in delivery, you were in ads.

00:37:28.160 But now what they're doing is they're bringing right out of the schools of business on the two coasts.

00:37:33.000 And we saw that, as you remember, with the person who dreamed up the Mulvaney commercial.

00:37:38.060 She had no experience in the actual working or the clientele of the corporation.

00:37:43.420 But if you look at the schools of business, and I can tell you of being on the Stanford campus, it's a good example.

00:37:48.720 They are bringing very young people that are woke and they're letting in people who are woke and their curriculum is woke.

00:37:56.340 And then these corporations are hiring them at very high levels.

00:37:59.760 And these people have never worked their way up.

00:38:02.100 They have no affinity or contact with middle America or working class America.

00:38:06.480 And they've made, they've almost ensured that these corporations are out of touch with anybody other than their own class and income.

00:38:15.040 And so then they, what sounds really brilliant and, you know, I'm going to outwoke you in a board meeting and we're going to have a brainstorming and I'm more left-wing than he is.

00:38:24.580 And I might get a, that's a prescription for suicide because they have no idea how they sound to normal people outside their small, their small little groups.

00:38:34.040 And even the, you know, the, the partnering with this group that makes satanic clothing.

00:38:39.040 I mean, it's reminding me of what's happening with the Dodgers.

00:38:41.020 Like who cares if it offends Christians, not us.

00:38:43.640 This group, these were not sold at Target, but this group, Ab Pralin, that they partnered with, has made products like a pin with the following statements.

00:38:54.780 Heteronormativity is a plague.

00:38:56.440 Time's up for transphobes. 1.00

00:38:58.160 Join my gay cult. 1.00

00:38:59.440 All right, so Target turned to them to make their new line of clothing, including baby onesies with rainbow patterns. 0.94

00:39:06.440 And at one point selling their pride-related merch that read things like, we belong everywhere across the trans flag, too queer for here, cure transphobia, not trans people, and so on.

00:39:18.420 And now they are having to have emergency meetings, according to this Fox report, because the customer base is so upset.

00:39:25.720 And here's Gavin Newsom's response, all right, lest you're governor, lest he miss the opportunity to weigh in on something like this.

00:39:32.900 He writes, CEO of Target, Brian Cornell, selling out, selling out the LGBTQ community to extremists is a real profile in courage.

00:39:43.320 This isn't just a couple stores in the South.

00:39:45.080 There's a systematic attack on the gay community happening across the country.

00:39:52.220 Wake up, America.

00:39:53.340 This doesn't stop here. 0.97

00:39:54.460 The gay community.

00:39:55.700 So conflating the gay community with the trans community, whereas he knows very well those two happen to diverge dramatically.

00:40:01.960 Just read the Andrew Sullivan piece that was posted this week.

00:40:04.220 So, yeah, him trying to take issue with the fact that these stores are having to have emergency meetings because it's getting so dicey and so hostile thanks to this boneheaded decision in stores in the South in particular.

00:40:19.660 Yeah, you know, Gavin Newsom is the political counterpart to what we were just talking about with this corporate culture related by marriage to Nancy Pelosi.

00:40:27.340 The Getty family subsidized him.

00:40:29.180 They gave him all of these companies, corporations, starts.

00:40:33.800 He's been a corporate left-wing artifact his entire life.

00:40:38.460 He's never been outside of that small Pelosi, Feinstein, Barbara Boxer circle.

00:40:44.580 It's very closely allied with Silicon Valley money now, Stanford University. 0.52

00:40:50.560 And it's a very arrogant, insular group of people. 1.00

00:40:54.140 And so when he weighs in on this, he has no idea about the trans, as you said, the tensions between working class gay people and this trans movement, nor does he understand how the trans people affect women's sports and how they've destroyed the aspirations of thousands of young girls that are competing from high school on the way up to college.

00:41:14.660 Nor does he have any idea how average people, nor does he have any idea how average people feel about it.

00:41:18.380 And so they're getting very, I guess I'm trying to get back to that theme.

00:41:24.260 They're getting very risky because they're pushing a lot of these constituencies, African-American, adult males, Latino groups, working class whites that had voted for Biden.

00:41:37.440 And they're pushing them and pushing them and pushing them as if their loyalty is guaranteed no matter what they do.

00:41:44.960 And I think there are as many revolutionary groups is that their attitude is yesterday's, today's revolutionary is tomorrow's sellout.

00:41:54.060 They just keep getting more and more radical each iteration.

00:41:57.780 Okay, so we got to talk, on the subject of radical, and you pointed out, you mentioned Stanford, obviously not the only university to embrace the woke left.

00:42:07.640 And that brings me to Hunter College in New York and this lunatic who just got fired, thank goodness, for holding a machete up to the neck of a New York Post reporter.

00:42:18.920 Now, what was the New York Post reporter doing at this person's house?

00:42:21.760 He went there because she was in the news yesterday for having, it happened earlier this month that the video just went public thanks to the student group.

00:42:28.500 A pro-life group had a table on a display at Hunter College.

00:42:33.060 She went over to them.

00:42:34.600 She flipped the table.

00:42:36.540 We have that sound, but I think we're that original confrontation where she was very angry at the pro-life students just for saying, hey, consider pro-life.

00:42:45.400 Consider our arguments.

00:42:46.760 Here's how that went, Sot 6. 0.99

00:42:49.620 You're not educating shit. 1.00

00:42:51.100 This is fucking propaganda. 1.00

00:42:53.160 What are you going to do, like anti-trans and that? 1.00

00:42:55.360 Is that what you're going to do next?

00:42:56.440 I mean, no, we're talking about abortion. 1.00

00:42:58.780 This is bullshit. 1.00

00:42:59.800 This is violent. 1.00

00:43:00.820 You're trickling my students.

00:43:02.420 I'm sorry about that.

00:43:03.880 No, you're not. 1.00

00:43:04.720 Because you can't even have a fucking baby. 1.00

00:43:07.240 So you don't even know what that is. 1.00

00:43:08.980 You don't even know what this is. 1.00

00:43:10.000 Get this shit the fuck out of here, man. 1.00

00:43:11.800 Get this shit. 1.00

00:43:15.780 Look at this angry, angry, disrespectful person. 1.00

00:43:19.000 Her name is Chalene Rodriguez, professor, again, at Hunter College, adjunct professor in the School of Visual Arts, who decides the students for life may not have a display.

00:43:28.520 She says it's triggering and that it's violent.

00:43:32.080 The very display is violent.

00:43:33.740 The guy's so respectful.

00:43:34.760 I'm sorry, ma'am.

00:43:35.780 Sorry that.

00:43:36.200 But we're talking about abortion.

00:43:37.720 So The New York Post goes to say, hey, you know, how about this controversy?

00:43:40.940 That was, you know, I suppose not so cool what you did to the kids.

00:43:45.480 And she pulls a machete on the reporter. 0.99

00:43:50.700 Here is the video that we have via The New York Post.

00:43:52.980 It's hot seven.

00:43:53.420 Let's let's get out of here.

00:43:59.640 You can't do that.

00:44:05.320 Let's let's get out of here.

00:44:07.320 You can't do that.

00:44:09.240 Yeah.

00:44:09.640 So then she chased them to their car, reports The Post, kicked the reporter in the shins after having pulled a machete to his neck. 0.65

00:44:18.340 That's what it took for Hunter College to say we're parting ways with this professor.

00:44:25.660 Victor, it literally has to be this bad for them to acknowledge who they're employing.

00:44:30.960 You know, this is sort of the bookend to all of these corporate executives.

00:44:35.120 Why does she do these things? 1.00

00:44:36.380 Why does she think that she can go into a student union and overturn and destroy people's property? 1.00

00:44:42.440 Or why does she think that she can commit a felony? 1.00

00:44:45.320 And that's what it is, an assault.

00:44:47.320 And then that's an illegal weapon in the state of New York.

00:44:50.680 What's in her mind that thinks it's OK?

00:44:52.880 And the answer is she looks at prosecutors throughout the United States and they feel that if you're of a protected, marginalized group status, you're going to be exempt.

00:45:02.460 And there's no deterrence left.

00:45:04.060 So she's criminally, she thinks she can do whatever she wants. 1.00

00:45:07.900 And then, you know, I've been in academia for 50 years and they always prided themselves on something they call retention, promotion, tenure.

00:45:17.000 This was a very exhaustive process where they went through your teaching, your scholarship, your behavior to audit you continually.

00:45:26.060 And the same thing was true of admissions to go in, test scores, GPA, the ranking of your high school, you know, the whole drill.

00:45:34.340 And we have destroyed all of that under the guise of diversity, equity and inclusion.

00:45:39.600 And the result is that all these people are coming out of the woodwork and saying, you know what, it worked.

00:45:45.880 All we have to do is call people racist and be in passive aggressive fashion.

00:45:49.880 We can say, oh, I'm triggered.

00:45:51.860 I'm a victim.

00:45:52.660 And then I can victimize other people.

00:45:54.660 And that's what they're doing.

00:45:55.780 And when you destroy all sense of standards, criteria, meritocracy, and the criminal justice system follows suit, then you have, we're going to, we see this almost daily.

00:46:06.960 And they made a mockery of the university.

00:46:08.800 At Stanford University, it's the same thing.

00:46:12.420 And it was, again, that thing was triggered, triggered, to use her term, by transgendered students.

00:46:17.620 So that's, these are the wages of what happens when you destroy institutions and then you need them in extremists.

00:46:24.600 I mean, now we need them, they're gone.

00:46:26.720 And these people have taken over.

00:46:29.040 I mean, her radicalism was on full display, but I doubt that incident with the table would have gotten her fired. 0.71

00:46:35.120 I think that's the truth.

00:46:35.860 No, there's no way.

00:46:36.920 She would have been honored on campus for that.

00:46:39.440 No, it should have.

00:46:40.380 Yeah, absolutely.

00:46:41.440 Five years ago, she would have, she not only would have been fired for doing what she did at the table, but she would have been unhireable. 0.94

00:46:48.020 Now, if she had not done the machete incident, she not only would have been lauded, but she probably would have got job offers or a promotion for what she did.

00:46:58.420 Yeah, this, this just in, apparently she's, she's going to be honored by the LA Dodgers at their net.

00:47:04.020 But that's, that's how it's going.

00:47:08.740 Victor Davis Hanson, it's always a pleasure, my friend.

00:47:11.140 Thanks for coming on.

00:47:12.780 Thank you.

00:47:14.000 All right.

00:47:14.340 And up next, we have an in-depth edition of Kelly's Court for you.

00:47:18.380 But first, I'm going to bring you an update on the Tucker situation when we come back after this break.

00:47:23.040 And don't forget, folks, you can find The Megyn Kelly Show live on SiriusXM Triumph Channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

00:47:30.740 And if you listen to the show live, often we take callers and we can chat about the news together.

00:47:35.340 So please consider doing that.

00:47:36.700 If you prefer to watch the video show and see the actual visual presentation, go to youtube.com slash Megyn Kelly.

00:47:42.660 You can watch it and see our clips there.

00:47:44.780 And if you like an audio podcast, you can get that too.

00:47:47.540 Follow, download on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, Stitcher, wherever you get your podcasts.

00:47:51.060 And there you can find our full archives with more than 555 shows now.

00:47:54.860 My goodness.

00:47:55.600 Five, five, five.

00:47:56.180 I want to start with an update on Tucker Carlson, the Daily Mail reporting based on these pictures that he is rebuilding the studio in his main home that Fox dismantled after booting him off the air.

00:48:13.260 Good for him because Fox would have taken its camera and its lighting and its other equipment and they've got pictures of Tucker and his family trying to change it up.

00:48:22.020 That's good news for those of us who would like to see him back on the air and using his voice.

00:48:26.080 And he seems to be getting his act in order.

00:48:29.720 Meantime, I had some thoughts on the Elon Musk, Ron DeSantis thing and how it relates to Fox News.

00:48:34.920 Axios had a very interesting article today, and I agreed with a lot of what was in there.

00:48:39.220 The headline is Musk moves in on Murdoch.

00:48:42.660 Elon Musk has displaced Rupert Murdoch and Fox News as the king of conservative media in recent weeks.

00:48:49.580 Why it matters, they write.

00:48:50.560 Fox News used to be the place where conservatives went to break news.

00:48:53.280 But the right wing ecosystem has turned on the network, leaving Twitter as the center of media gravity for the Republican Party, just as the 2024 election heats up.

00:49:03.780 Their examples of this are the fact that Tucker's ratings have cratered in the APM since he left, that Tucker's bringing a new version of his old Fox News show to Twitter.

00:49:15.220 It's really it's it's going to be a subscription model, but he's going to post it via Twitter.

00:49:19.120 And Ben Shapiro just announced that all of the Daily Wire podcasts are also going to be posted on Twitter beginning at the end of this month.

00:49:27.700 And then on top of it all, you have Ron DeSantis.

00:49:30.800 Now, he is going to sit for an interview with Trey Gowdy over on Fox News, but he's making the announcement on Twitter.

00:49:36.840 He's not making the announcement on Fox News.

00:49:38.560 That is a sea change for these Republican candidates.

00:49:42.280 Trust me, I was the one in the anchor chair when a lot of these people came on to announce their candidacy back when I was still at Fox in the twenty twenty sixteen race.

00:49:50.880 I mean, I could go down the list for you of the candidates who announced on our show and who we did in-depth profiles on sort of bringing their backstory to the viewers.

00:49:59.940 No more.

00:50:01.220 This is the way it's going to be done now.

00:50:02.980 They're bypassing what was once unbypassable Fox News to make the actual announcement and get the news out.

00:50:11.440 As you know, all that matters in TV news is who has it first.

00:50:14.620 It doesn't matter that he's going to Trey Gowdy second.

00:50:16.760 What matters is he's breaking the news with Elon on Twitter.

00:50:19.960 It's a significant shakeup when it comes to media and how Republican conservative politicians see Fox News.

00:50:29.200 They no longer have to kiss the ring.

00:50:32.200 They understand that it's not just Rupert's show anymore.

00:50:35.980 We brought this to you yesterday after after that Harvard Harris poll that showed more independence now.

00:50:41.440 Are turning to alternative alternative media sites for their news than any other news site than ABC, NBC, CBS, any of these Fox News.

00:50:51.200 All of them more conservatives now than ever before are turning to alternative news sites like us, like digital media, not just us, but places like The Daily Wire and Glenn Beck and so on.

00:51:02.060 And this is a very good development.

00:51:04.340 Carlson actually spoke with Axios and said the old system is collapsing.

00:51:07.760 And I agree.

00:51:08.580 He said you can't claim you've got a democracy if all the information voters receive before a presidential election has been curated by the people already in charge.

00:51:17.720 And the Axios piece goes on to point out, look, on Monday, I mentioned this report to you.

00:51:23.560 The Daily Signal had a really good, really good report about how Fox has gone super woke on all the trans ideology.

00:51:30.720 I mean, not just their employee handbook, which they say, well, we have to comply with the laws in New York and California where we do business.

00:51:36.120 I get that.

00:51:36.740 That's true.

00:51:37.220 But you don't have to crack down on Tucker's producers who want to refer to Dylan Mulvaney as a he, which the reporting in The Daily Signal says you did.

00:51:45.860 You don't have to demand certain of the things that are in that report of all employees.

00:51:49.920 You don't have to use words like gender affirming care, which plays into the left's narrative.

00:51:55.260 You don't have to air reports talking about how if you don't let your daughter transition to a boy, you're going to wind up with a dead daughter instead of a live son.

00:52:03.640 Those are left wing lies about the trans situation.

00:52:07.820 And look, in 2022, when that report aired, we knew that we knew that by that point.

00:52:13.440 But Fox is leaning in.

00:52:15.220 And that's why The Daily Signal, which is owned by the Conservative Heritage Foundation, took a shot, a major shot at Fox News with that good reporting that I just mentioned.

00:52:24.900 Then you've got Daily Wire's Matt Walsh reacting to that report, saying Fox News is fully woke on trans ideology and saying now that Tucker's gone, there's no stopping Fox's march leftward.

00:52:36.280 They also point out that Carlson is preparing to unleash attacks on Fox News.

00:52:40.360 We saw that report in an earlier piece by The Daily Beast, where Fox, Tucker was threatening that he's got a very large oppo research file on Fox News and is not afraid to use it if this thing gets even uglier.

00:52:55.020 So that's where we stand now.

00:52:56.800 Now, I think it was a clever move by DeSantis.

00:52:58.640 Yes, he'll go on Fox, but it's different.

00:53:00.220 And had he just done this on, you know, the old APM time slot without fronting it first with Elon, it would be sending a message I don't think he wants to send, right, to the Tucker core viewership, which, once again, has not watched Fox.

00:53:15.960 Just the latest update on the ratings, because I always bring them to you.

00:53:19.580 Last night or Monday night is the most recent data we had.

00:53:22.260 Terrible night up and down the channel.

00:53:24.820 Laura Ingram at 10 in the tank.

00:53:27.320 I mean, just dreadful numbers.

00:53:28.580 She lost the entire night.

00:53:29.560 She was down at 149 in the key demo.

00:53:32.080 Tucker's number still horrible down in the key demo.

00:53:35.500 157.

00:53:36.360 9 p.m. goes up just a tick to 162.

00:53:39.060 Then Laura down at 149.

00:53:40.960 Absolutely horrible.

00:53:42.400 Maddo beat Hannity in the overall numbers and in the key demo, as she always is doing now.

00:53:47.880 Every Monday, I think, since Tucker left.

00:53:50.180 And Miss NBC beat Laura at 10 and in the total. 1.00

00:53:54.200 CNN did a little better than Newsmax, but it was a horse race.

00:53:58.100 And that's just never been the case.

00:53:59.420 Newsmax have been beating CNN in that 8 p.m.

00:54:02.120 time slot.

00:54:02.840 We are seeing a seismic shift in the media landscape right now.

00:54:07.600 And it's great.

00:54:09.320 It's good for America. 0.74

00:54:10.740 It's good for you.

00:54:11.780 It's good for our ecosphere and our reporting.

00:54:14.700 And I told you this long ago that the future of media is going to be the relationship between the audience and individual personalities.

00:54:21.120 You cannot trust these large corporations that have an agenda.

00:54:25.900 They have too much control over what you see and what you do not see.

00:54:29.380 You need to figure out who you trust and who you don't trust, who will be honest with you, even when the facts are not pleasant for your side, but who will understand what's important to you, the consumer.

00:54:42.120 In actually choosing stories and reporting on them.

00:54:45.540 That's that's what we do.

00:54:47.620 That's what this whole ecosphere has allowed.

00:54:49.840 And that's why it's gaining steam.

00:54:51.060 And the days of Rupert Murdoch having a monopoly on the conservative right are over.

00:54:57.640 OK, we move on now to Kelly's court with an excellent legal panel today.

00:55:02.880 There is tons of legal news to get to, including the latest in the Brian Kohlberger murder case, an unbelievable lawsuit by a trans woman challenge out of New York.

00:55:14.260 More details on the city bike Karen case we brought to you yesterday and also E.

00:55:20.260 Jean Carroll trying to take another shot at Trump based on that CNN town hall.

00:55:25.540 Lots to get to.

00:55:26.600 Joining me now to discuss Peter Tragos, managing partner at the law offices of Tragos, Sartes and Tragos and host of The Lawyer You Know on YouTube and Beth Karras, former prosecutor and legal analyst.

00:55:38.640 You guys, welcome back to the show.

00:55:40.080 Great to see you.

00:55:41.800 Good to be back for having me.

00:55:42.840 I mean, Beth is like I didn't spend enough time on Beth's many accomplishments, but she's been a prosecutor. 0.95

00:55:48.500 She's on TV.

00:55:49.560 I know you're ABC.

00:55:50.500 I listen to you on 2020 all the time.

00:55:51.880 Now they've scooped you up and that was a good decision by them.

00:55:54.500 But in any event, great to have you both here.

00:55:56.200 So let's let's start with my God.

00:55:59.980 So, so much, so much that we can get to.

00:56:02.780 Let me see.

00:56:03.240 Where do we want to begin?

00:56:03.960 I guess Kohlberger, because the chilling details that were reported on this Friday night's dateline were shocking.

00:56:12.040 This guy's accused of murdering four Idaho college students.

00:56:16.500 Most Americans have seen the story by this point.

00:56:19.020 Three young women and one young man, the boyfriend of one of the young women, while sleeping in their beds last November, November 2022.

00:56:27.200 Here's the suspect Kohlberger.

00:56:29.820 The the defendant was said to have sneaked into their house in the middle of the night with a knife, a K-bar knife, and have he sliced them to death.

00:56:41.280 He stabbed them to death.

00:56:42.440 All four of them.

00:56:43.260 There were two other roommates inside the house, one of whom we believe slept through the whole thing, one of whom has told the police she woke up at some point and saw him leave the house.

00:56:53.420 She had heard some sort of oral exchange, we believe, between the defendant and one of the victims where he said something to the effect of it's OK.

00:57:00.820 You know, I'll keep you safe or I'll protect you or something to that effect.

00:57:03.880 Someone said that.

00:57:04.760 And now he faces the court to figure out what's what they were going to have a preliminary hearing where the prosecution was going to have to show all of its cards.

00:57:12.400 They decided not to do that.

00:57:13.700 They just got a grand jury indictment, which prevents the prosecution from having to put witness after witness on the stand and allowing the defense to cross examine them.

00:57:20.780 I think that was a wise move.

00:57:21.760 But what's come out, what's come out now is shocking, including you guys.

00:57:27.360 The biggest revelation from the dateline to me was that this guy apparently bought a K-bar knife and sheath.

00:57:37.140 Remember, they found the sheath of the knife that was used by the murderer at the scene.

00:57:42.600 They found him buying one of these knives and its accompanying sheath seven months before the murders on Amazon, Beth, on Amazon.

00:57:52.920 What?

00:57:54.580 Well, I mean, it is seven months before, so I suppose the defense will say that's too attenuated.

00:57:59.300 But it is good evidence that they can now place a knife in his possession, something that if he bought, presumably he was possessing, not giving away.

00:58:07.180 And consistent with what they believe to be the murder weapon, although the actual knife has never been recovered.

00:58:14.140 The sheath has been, though.

00:58:15.580 And another detail that came out, if I can, if I may, is that he apparently burglarized another home in the past and sort of switched things around to just kind of play psychological games with the owners, not really stealing anything.

00:58:32.460 And when I was reading about that and hearing about it, it immediately made me think about the Pettit family that was killed in 2007 in Cheshire, Connecticut.

00:58:39.820 One of the two murderers, the house, they were killed and then the house was burned down.

00:58:43.960 The father, the doctor survived.

00:58:46.280 One of the two, Joshua Komar Sarjevsky, was a cat burglar who used to do just that.

00:58:50.940 He would burglarize people's homes, switch their paintings, sometimes steal things, not always, but just mess with people's heads. 0.65

00:58:56.520 And he perfected the skill of burglarizing and then he committed the ultimate act of raping and killing these two young members and the two young girls and their mother.

00:59:06.780 But you got to wonder if Koberger also was sort of perfecting his burglary skills so he could stealthily get in homes without detection.

00:59:17.560 I got to tip my hat to the Dateline team that they were my favorite people at NBC for what it's worth.

00:59:22.720 I love the Dateline team.

00:59:23.780 They were just total pros and kind people.

00:59:26.520 Keith Morrison, my God, like the greatest.

00:59:29.400 He was born to do the job he's doing, is he not?

00:59:31.320 In any event, they report that there's a couple things here.

00:59:36.560 He broke into, this is the case you're referencing, I assume, a female colleague's home.

00:59:40.620 Yeah, he broke into a female colleague's home months before the murders.

00:59:44.820 According to a source with Dateline, he's considered a strong suspect in this case.

00:59:48.480 They don't have the proof positive yet, but this is all brand new.

00:59:52.420 Allegedly broke into the apartment of a female colleague.

00:59:54.660 This is while he was at Washington State University.

00:59:57.620 He'd only gotten there months before.

00:59:59.600 He'd only started his graduate studies program there.

01:00:02.480 I think he got there in August.

01:00:03.640 The murders were committed in November.

01:00:05.340 So he didn't have a lot of time to start, you know, this alleged crime spree.

01:00:08.280 Allegedly broke into the apartment of a female colleague there at Washington State University,

01:00:13.060 moved items around as part of an elaborate ploy to manipulate her.

01:00:16.300 According to Dateline, he befriended her months before the murders, then broke into her apartment,

01:00:20.920 jostled things around, did not take anything.

01:00:22.980 They write, it worked.

01:00:24.380 This is via the New York Post.

01:00:25.540 The unnamed woman then asked him to install a video surveillance system.

01:00:30.640 This is so sick and creepy, you guys, which authorities believe he could have accessed remotely since he knew her Wi-Fi password.

01:00:39.040 This is crazy, Peter.

01:00:40.740 So can you imagine how this young woman is feeling now that the reaction she must have had when she realized when we all heard that shocking news that they they arrested a suspect in this case of the four murders?

01:00:52.840 And she found out it was this guy who had installed the cameras.

01:00:57.120 This is crazy.

01:00:58.320 And it was it would be totally consistent with what eventually happened inside that other house a couple of months later, if true.

01:01:05.080 Yeah, I mean, I hate to be the one to throw cold water on some of it, but I think that's what you're here for when.

01:01:12.620 Yeah, I think this happens.

01:01:13.960 And this is kind of another aspect of this case that I think is a really big deal.

01:01:16.980 And that's the gag order, the nondissemination order, where these leaks are not supposed to happen.

01:01:21.720 And sometimes when the leaks are not supposed to happen, sometimes there are reaches and there are stretches.

01:01:26.760 And we hear if he's a suspect somewhere else.

01:01:29.600 Now it fits into his serial killer profile perfectly.

01:01:33.060 And it proves that not only did he commit these crimes, but he committed that crime.

01:01:37.220 There is another way to look at it, that he was at least a trustworthy enough for this female student to ask him of all the people she could have asked to put the system in her home.

01:01:46.760 It also begs the question that if he already had that access to her home and he had practiced it before and he had set up a security camera and had this information on her, why not choose her as the potential victim?

01:01:57.460 I'm not saying he didn't do that, and I'm definitely not saying he didn't do the Idaho murders, because it seems like there is a lot of evidence.

01:02:04.260 I just caution everybody to jump, not jump to conclusions, wait till we see what actual evidence comes out, because there is a gag order, and wait to see if those other similar bad acts, like breaking into other young females' apartments, comes into this trial.

01:02:19.120 Because I think it would be relevant if they can prove by clear and convincing evidence on the other bad acts that he did, in fact, commit those crimes.

01:02:26.620 And then you start piling up evidence that proves his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

01:02:30.560 I'm just not there yet, piling on with all of these additional things we're hearing.

01:02:35.320 Hmm.

01:02:36.100 Beth, the other piece of new information, this is also interesting, is that, you know, he was this TA at Washington State University where he was getting his graduate degree.

01:02:46.180 At the time, he allegedly committed these murders.

01:02:47.940 Now we learn, again, via NBC, that he had been fired.

01:02:52.820 He'd been fired from that job in December.

01:02:56.100 So it would have been right after the murders, they're reporting that he was counseled over a verbal altercation he had with a professor, and his conduct had been investigated with women.

01:03:10.100 They were investigating his conduct with women around the time of the killings.

01:03:15.340 He was ultimately fired from his job as a teaching assistant in December before his arrest at his parents' home.

01:03:20.820 In one of those instances, he was accused of following a female student to her car.

01:03:24.080 In the case of the female students, the university's investigation did not find him guilty of any wrongdoing.

01:03:29.360 Clearly, they had an investigation open on him.

01:03:32.360 They cited the potential unsatisfactory performance as a TA, including his failure to meet the norms of professional behavior in his interactions with the faculty.

01:03:42.320 Beth, what we're seeing here, in my view, is a pattern of behavior leading up to these horrendous acts.

01:03:49.620 Well, his things seem to be spiraling in his life if he's losing the TA position.

01:03:56.380 Was he planning something like this?

01:03:58.140 I don't know.

01:03:58.640 But he did have odd social interactions with women.

01:04:03.460 It has not been established that he actually knew the victims in this case.

01:04:07.480 And for him to commit the ultimate act of four murders, is that his first crime?

01:04:15.700 Because it's pretty severe.

01:04:17.740 Generally, we see escalation in crime.

01:04:21.340 Certainly, things are not going well, perhaps, in some parts of his life.

01:04:24.980 But I don't really have an explanation for why he would kill four people.

01:04:29.940 And certainly, we don't know a motive either.

01:04:31.540 But we've heard other problems with women, that he didn't do well with women.

01:04:36.120 There's been speculation that he might have been a so-called incel, involuntarily celibate man who has never been with a woman, but not because he doesn't want to be.

01:04:44.800 Now we see here negative interactions with women at Washington State. 0.98

01:04:50.040 There was an earlier report that he had negative interactions with women at a bar to the point where the bartender or the guy who runs the bar said, I don't want you coming here anymore.

01:05:00.540 Something's off with you.

01:05:03.100 Then there was another report out that he had yet another pullover in his car.

01:05:07.880 This is in addition to the ones that we already knew about after the murders.

01:05:11.720 This one was before, where he was sort of pushed by this cop.

01:05:16.620 But in any event, that happened right by the house in which the murders took place prior to the murders.

01:05:21.080 It's just like a lot of circumstantial evidence.

01:05:23.260 It alone, none of these proves anything together.

01:05:26.260 To me, it paints the picture of a man who had issues, serious issues with women.

01:05:30.660 And who were his main targets?

01:05:32.580 These women inside this house. 0.96

01:05:33.680 Go ahead, Beth.

01:05:33.980 I do want to add that, because you do mention this is circumstantial, that most murders don't really happen in front of a lot of witnesses.

01:05:41.520 So there's not often direct evidence.

01:05:43.840 There aren't confessions or aren't eyewitnesses to murders.

01:05:46.880 Murder cases are built routinely on circumstantial evidence, and this is no different.

01:05:51.400 And it's great evidence.

01:05:52.700 Circumstantial evidence is every bit as good as direct evidence, sometimes even better, because it can be incontrovertible, unlike eyewitnesses, because they can get things wrong.

01:06:00.900 Peter, the prosecution is going to say seven months before these murders, where we've got his car circulating right around the house.

01:06:13.060 We've got him, which he never did, turning off his phone right before the murders and turning it back on right after the murders.

01:06:19.700 And we've got his touch DNA on the knife sheath that was left behind.

01:06:26.140 Seven months before all of that, he bought a knife sheath that matches exactly the knife sheath found at the murder scene.

01:06:34.860 The weapon itself that was used to kill these four young, promising college students has not been found, but it would match. 0.76

01:06:42.680 They'll have forensic testimony.

01:06:43.820 The knife he bought via Amazon, they're going to have that.

01:06:47.500 And by the way, if he didn't use that knife, where's his knife?

01:06:51.240 We searched his house.

01:06:52.300 We searched his parents' house.

01:06:53.720 We searched his car.

01:06:55.020 We didn't find it.

01:06:56.400 Where is it?

01:06:57.820 That is so damning.

01:07:00.760 That's the type of evidence I think I would focus on if I was prosecuting this case.

01:07:04.340 If you have the Amazon purchase, you can get the exact same knife from Amazon or from the manufacturer, test it.

01:07:12.680 Law enforcement can test it to the autopsy wounds that was on the victim's bodies.

01:07:18.200 They'd be able to match that knife up.

01:07:19.760 And again, just like you said, just like in the Murdoch case, if it wasn't you, where are the clothes?

01:07:24.240 And that seemed to work.

01:07:26.120 If something is missing, then, you know, where is it?

01:07:29.460 And we think you ditched the knife.

01:07:31.160 And again, it fits right into the story the prosecutors are going to try to use to convict him.

01:07:35.300 And that, I think, is a huge piece of evidence.

01:07:38.200 And the direct evidence that comes in some cases that I think is very damning is when they do have a murder weapon.

01:07:42.680 And they can attach it to the defendant with DNA or whatever it may be.

01:07:46.260 In this case, this might be the second best type of circumstantial evidence with the purchase.

01:07:51.320 Yeah, they've got I realize touch DNA is not as ideal as, you know, a bodily fluid being conclusively matched.

01:07:58.580 But they've got his touch DNA on that knife sheath.

01:08:00.780 That's how they found him.

01:08:02.120 They found the touch DNA.

01:08:03.860 They ran a genetic search for who might this belong to.

01:08:08.800 His dad came up in the database before they ever knew the name Brian Kohlberger.

01:08:13.640 And they they recognized that the person that was they were getting a hit on was the son of Mr. Kohlberger.

01:08:21.860 And that was Brian Kohlberger.

01:08:22.840 Then they found his car and so on.

01:08:23.820 They'd all unfolded.

01:08:24.580 So the jury's going to hear all of this is going to be extraordinarily compelling.

01:08:27.520 I want to get to one of the piece of evidence before we talk about what happened at the when he was arraigned the other day, Beth, post the indictment.

01:08:35.040 And that is the family.

01:08:37.080 My God, so chilling.

01:08:39.800 So he has, I think, two sisters.

01:08:42.340 His family is in the Poconos, Pennsylvania, more rural part of Pennsylvania.

01:08:46.100 And the one sister was a counselor.

01:08:48.160 I don't know whether this is that sister, but she was apparently laid off from her counselor job in the wake of all this.

01:08:54.220 I mean, can you imagine like let's be honest.

01:08:56.900 Nobody wants to get their counseling services from somebody who might be the sister to a mass murderer.

01:09:02.120 So this is, again, via Dateline.

01:09:05.280 After returning to his family's home, because that's where he went in December after the murders with his daddy, had that cross country trip.

01:09:11.160 We got pulled over a couple of times by the cops.

01:09:14.080 Kohlberger started wearing latex gloves, even in the home.

01:09:18.560 Hello.

01:09:19.520 I mean, very creepy. 0.99

01:09:21.000 I mean, who wouldn't be looking at him like, holy shit. 0.97

01:09:23.340 But one of Brian's sisters, who was home for Christmas, noted, yes, his his use of the latex gloves that he and noted that he lived just miles away from the murder scene, only 10 miles away, and that he drove a white Hyundai Elantra, which is what the police were searching for at the time. 0.97

01:09:45.080 She thought Kohlberger that the Kohlberger family should consider maybe it was Brian.

01:09:51.940 Listen, she knew Beth.

01:09:54.380 She knew.

01:09:55.200 Yes, that was really chilling to learn that.

01:09:58.880 Now, the fact that he was wearing gloves in the home is a huge red flag.

01:10:03.620 But that his sister, who's a little bit of a trained observer, put it together, the car, the make of the car and where he was living together with the gloves.

01:10:13.700 Because that alone may, that's great stuff, but there's got to be something more about him.

01:10:18.740 Obviously, she knows her brother.

01:10:20.040 She may have other things.

01:10:21.440 She knows other things about his behavior, his interactions or lack of interactions with women.

01:10:26.260 Perhaps he's done something inappropriate in the past.

01:10:29.280 I'm not saying illegal, just perhaps inappropriate.

01:10:31.180 That made her think, wow, maybe he really is.

01:10:34.640 Because those three things together are pretty compelling.

01:10:37.400 But I think that it's against, you know, just sort of all the knowledge she has about her brother and his psychology.

01:10:45.760 You're 100 percent right, Peter, because, you know, I like, you know, the people in your life and think about the people in your life right now.

01:10:54.080 If they came home after a murder had happened nearby where they normally live and behaved a little odd, most of us wouldn't be like, he did it.

01:11:03.540 Clearly, there was something about this guy that led the sister, you know, his past that led her to say, oh, my God, I think he might have done it.

01:11:10.860 Yeah, I mean, I think it indicates that we just don't know so much in this case.

01:11:15.800 And what is, like Beth said, the entire context of her statement?

01:11:20.280 You know, she's going to be sworn under oath and either giving a deposition or at a trial or wherever it may be and giving an official statement as to what she saw, what she heard post murders, but also maybe throughout his life, as we've heard so many people talking about how there may have been signs or patterns throughout his life.

01:11:36.400 And his sister may be able to shed light on that.

01:11:38.640 But I also just want to mention real quick at the end, the fact that she lost her job.

01:11:43.040 And you're right, Megan, that who wants to go to Koberger as their therapist or somebody that helps them with a problem?

01:11:50.680 To me, that is the importance of innocent until proven guilty and why the nation as a whole should wait until we hear things specifically that are going to come in as legitimate and reliable evidence before we condemn the entire family.

01:12:05.980 I want to ask you whether this is admissible.

01:12:07.280 But yes, I mean, it's like, can you imagine you're going to, you know, Beth Dahmer as your counselor?

01:12:15.140 OK, it's over between me and Beth.

01:12:17.940 Sorry, Beth, you've been helpful, but no, I'm moving on.

01:12:22.300 OK, let me ask you whether this is admissible, Peter.

01:12:25.180 Is this admissible?

01:12:25.880 Because here's what they say happened next.

01:12:28.260 This is so creepy.

01:12:29.160 The family knew.

01:12:30.080 They knew.

01:12:31.000 Of course they knew.

01:12:32.520 And this guy had a long history of mental health problems.

01:12:34.620 He was addicted to heroin, say the reports, Brian Kohlberger.

01:12:37.240 He had the visual snow problem where he would see like the I call him the ant races on TV for no reason in his eyes.

01:12:44.300 He's talking about feeling like a dead bag of meat.

01:12:46.740 He feels nothing when he hugs his family members.

01:12:48.940 He's you know, this is not a well man.

01:12:51.220 Then started to turn his life around.

01:12:52.820 Or so we thought getting the criminology degree, going out to get his graduate degree and so on.

01:12:56.940 So this Dateline report goes on.

01:12:59.640 A source said Brian's father said.

01:13:03.520 So the sister said to the family, we should consider whether Brian committed these this quadruple homicide.

01:13:08.640 The father said, no, I don't believe it.

01:13:11.060 The same source told Dateline that several members of the family went outside to look for evidence in Brian's white Elantra and that they did not find any.

01:13:21.700 But police by that point had already observed Brian cleaning his car with bleach.

01:13:25.840 We knew that the FBI was was watching him at the time that he was at his home in the Poconos.

01:13:30.800 They found him when they burst in there to make the arrest at one in the morning, wearing latex gloves, putting his belongings in little Ziploc baggies in a trash bag that he was going to dump as he had the nights before in the neighbor's trash.

01:13:43.820 So they had let him get away with a fair amount of stuff because they did.

01:13:46.960 They weren't quite ready to make the arrest, including cleaning his car with bleach.

01:13:49.720 But is that admissible, Peter?

01:13:51.320 Is there a way of getting in that the family suspected him to the point where they went out and searched his car?

01:13:57.940 Yeah, I would say it's probably going to be admissible, especially when pieces of evidence can be used by both sides.

01:14:03.740 It's more likely that they're going to come in a trial.

01:14:05.880 And I think the defense would use this to say his family went and looked and there was nothing in the car.

01:14:09.700 And the prosecution will use to say even his family thought it was him for all of these reasons.

01:14:14.620 And then because there is missing evidence, like a missing murder weapon and depending on exactly what they can find or gather from the car as far as DNA evidence,

01:14:24.180 I definitely think that's going to be a topic of conversation throughout the trial.

01:14:27.380 The evidence that's missing and why it may be missing in his actions post-crime.

01:14:31.520 Beth, do you agree?

01:14:33.480 As a former prosecutor, do you agree that this comes in?

01:14:35.660 I do agree.

01:14:36.860 And everything that the police did in observing the family and what the family did, yeah, it's totally admissible.

01:14:43.760 That's not good either.

01:14:44.880 I mean, like as a juror, I would find it very compelling that the sister believed he did it and that the family,

01:14:50.280 so more than the sister, felt so compelled they went out and searched that car.

01:14:54.080 I mean, in the midst of all this other evidence.

01:14:56.020 So it's just like it builds.

01:14:57.420 Okay, so now when he was arraigned, the grand jury indicted him and he had to go and stand and say whether he was guilty or not guilty, Beth.

01:15:06.980 And he did something I have not seen before, but I heard our pal Nancy Grace talking about this on her podcast,

01:15:12.780 talking about how BTK, the serial killer with whom Brian Kohlberger may or may not have a relationship or may see him as a mentor with speculation.

01:15:20.820 He also did the same thing where he refused to say the words, not guilty.

01:15:27.000 And then the judge said those words.

01:15:29.820 Okay, Ms. Taylor, is Mr. Kohlberger prepared to plead to these charges?

01:15:36.460 Your Honor, we will be standing silent.

01:15:38.820 Okay, because Mr. Kohlberger is standing silent, I'm going to enter not guilty pleas.

01:15:45.600 On each charge, counts one, two, three, four, and five.

01:15:52.600 The judge is named Judge.

01:15:55.440 So it's a little weird.

01:15:56.320 He's Judge Judge.

01:15:57.440 Judge John Judge.

01:15:58.420 I mean, Judge John Judge was the one who said not guilty, not guilty.

01:16:04.200 So what's that about?

01:16:05.200 So I've had that happen in my experience when I was prosecuting where a judge enters a plea on behalf of the defendant

01:16:10.220 because the defendant can't enter it for whatever reason, maybe incapacitated or just refusing to speak.

01:16:16.140 So the judge enters it because there has to be something, you know, in the record, guilty, not guilty.

01:16:20.640 Almost always it's a not guilty plea.

01:16:22.640 Now, I've heard an Idaho attorney give some analysis about this,

01:16:26.480 that if you're going to challenge a grand jury presentation,

01:16:28.980 it's better if you don't speak to that indictment at all, even by uttering the words not guilty.

01:16:35.500 Not a good argument, but maybe that's part of the strategy.

01:16:38.540 Maybe not.

01:16:39.840 He may just not want to cooperate at all.

01:16:43.600 Failing to cooperate with the attorney could maybe stall the case a little bit.

01:16:47.700 But he did speak.

01:16:48.300 They asked him other questions like, do you understand this charge?

01:16:51.640 Yes.

01:16:51.940 Do you understand this one?

01:16:52.680 Yes.

01:16:52.940 And forcefully, he was like, yes.

01:16:56.020 Do you understand the charge in count two, murder in the first degree?

01:17:00.280 Yes.

01:17:00.980 Do you understand the maximum penalty?

01:17:03.520 Yes.

01:17:04.500 Do you understand the charge in count three, murder in the first degree?

01:17:08.540 Yes.

01:17:09.460 Do you understand the maximum penalty?

01:17:11.860 Yes.

01:17:12.260 But when it came to not guilty, nothing.

01:17:16.380 Correct.

01:17:16.860 But, you know, there's two parts to competency, right?

01:17:18.620 Understanding the proceedings and then assisting in your defense.

01:17:21.140 And I'm actually looking at a case right now where a woman was found incompetent for five years

01:17:25.340 because she refused to talk to her lawyer about the case, even though she understood the proceedings.

01:17:30.480 So I don't think that's where Kohlberger is going.

01:17:33.640 But it made me think about the story that I'm looking into right now.

01:17:37.480 In any event, standing mute is not unheard of.

01:17:41.320 And so the judge just enters it on his behalf and then move to the next step.

01:17:45.440 It's very weird.

01:17:47.020 I don't know if this is laying the groundwork for a plea.

01:17:49.660 He thinks, like, I never lied about it.

01:17:51.700 I never said, like, I don't I don't know what this is about.

01:17:54.440 Nancy had some experts on her show speculating maybe it was an attempt not to give too much 0.99

01:17:58.320 voice evidence because that one roommate heard the voice.

01:18:01.920 And but he's already spoken in court and he did speak in this court proceeding as well,

01:18:06.760 just not on that question.

01:18:08.820 Maybe there was a question about whether it would sound better if the judge is up there

01:18:13.460 saying not guilty.

01:18:15.620 Maybe it's his attempt to control because it's a very controlling guy.

01:18:20.820 We just don't know.

01:18:21.480 But it was an oddity that jumped out at me.

01:18:23.280 The case is looking very strong against him, in my opinion.

01:18:26.360 This this guy is not getting off.

01:18:27.840 He is getting convicted, in my view.

01:18:30.280 We'll see.

01:18:30.920 He remains, you know, committed to proving his innocence.

01:18:34.380 He is the latest statement from his lawyers was he will be, quote, exonerated.

01:18:38.520 We'll just see about that.

01:18:39.860 So many more great cases to get to with Peter and Beth right after this quick break.

01:18:46.480 Hot yoga in Chelsea is in trouble in a civil suit brought by someone who says they are a

01:18:53.680 trans woman, biological male, was Dylan Miles, now goes by Ali Miles.

01:18:59.860 And this is the third gender identity discrimination lawsuit that Ali has filed in 13 months.

01:19:09.120 This is Ali.

01:19:10.420 Three lawsuits in one year.

01:19:13.660 And the latest is based on an incident in hot yoga, Chelsea.

01:19:18.520 Would anyone care to relay the facts that happened in hot yoga, Chelsea?

01:19:24.040 Happy to do it, but happy to let you guys have the airtime.

01:19:27.040 Peter, take a shot.

01:19:29.000 I think Beth's taking this one.

01:19:30.900 Go ahead, Beth.

01:19:31.800 OK.

01:19:32.500 So, I mean, as I understand it, this happened just across town from where I live, but I

01:19:36.620 really am not familiar with the case that well.

01:19:38.820 There was a show that Ali Miles wanted to use the locker room and showers where all the other 1.00

01:19:46.940 women were. 1.00

01:19:48.000 And Miles is identifying as a woman, says she is transitioning. 0.88

01:19:53.040 But that's how she identifies, born male and still has, you know, male genitals. 1.00

01:19:57.800 And a lot of the women, other women in the locker room were really offended by Miles' conduct 0.89

01:20:05.680 because she was just letting it all hang out.

01:20:11.040 And the other women were like, she's a man. 1.00

01:20:15.180 Like, she's just 150% male.

01:20:18.520 So they were really offended.

01:20:19.980 And the club was like, yeah, you can't use this facility.

01:20:23.040 When you read the law, though, and I was reading the law because it's not my area.

01:20:27.540 I really know crime and this is civil.

01:20:29.660 But, you know, gender identity is how one perceives themselves regardless of their birth

01:20:35.920 sex.

01:20:37.100 In New York City.

01:20:38.080 But she's defined as transitioning. 0.99

01:20:40.280 And so, of course, in my mind, my practical mind, I'm thinking, well, if you're transitioning,

01:20:44.020 you're not there yet, right?

01:20:45.060 You're in the process.

01:20:46.380 And years ago, I covered a case.

01:20:48.280 I was telling Peter off air in Clearwater where he is.

01:20:51.060 I covered a case involving a transgender person transitioned from female to male and then

01:20:56.420 married a woman.

01:20:57.220 And, you know, I won't go through that whole story, but the judge had to determine if this

01:21:01.400 couple was in a legal marriage. 0.89

01:21:04.420 And he went through a transition and then had his birth certificate changed.

01:21:11.360 And it seems like if you go and have your birth certificate sex changed, then that has to 0.79

01:21:16.300 be honored because you are legally now a woman, not the man, not the woman you were born. 0.52

01:21:22.580 So but that's not the case anymore.

01:21:24.760 And reading the law, you don't have to have gone through the birth certificate change.

01:21:29.100 You just proclaim yourself presenting as a woman. 0.71

01:21:32.780 And everybody has to honor that.

01:21:34.780 So like every person at the yoga studio, these women who were offended in the locker room, 1.00

01:21:40.840 they have to honor it, too.

01:21:42.140 I'm not so sure.

01:21:43.740 I'm not so sure either, because I think you can make a case for harassment or there's definitely

01:21:48.420 a peeping Tom law in New York City where you're not allowed to creep around and look at

01:21:52.960 naked women. 1.00

01:21:53.500 And that's apparently what this Miles was doing.

01:21:57.140 Peter, they say that the person who claims to be transitioning is I think this is a this is 0.98

01:22:02.320 a quote from Chelsea Hot Yoga to the Washington or to the New York Post.

01:22:06.420 This person who claims to be a transitioning woman came into the female locker room, number 1.00

01:22:09.860 one in male shorts that were down to his knees, although there could be some hormonal addition

01:22:13.980 because his bust is bigger than mine, said one witness.

01:22:17.220 He did not wear any feminine top to cover his bust.

01:22:22.000 He also derobed and he is a full male.

01:22:25.300 There's 150 percent man, as Beth said.

01:22:28.020 There were things hanging out.

01:22:29.500 Then they go on.

01:22:30.080 It wasn't even like he was just standing there.

01:22:31.800 He was crouched down on the floor in front of the shower stalls.

01:22:36.480 That is creepy.

01:22:37.760 That is what you do if you're trying to see in the shower stalls.

01:22:40.640 It was very uncomfortable for one of the women that was in there and she was completely naked 1.00

01:22:44.940 as one does when one showers after hot yoga.

01:22:50.220 Then this person started in immediately by reciting the law to the people who objected and they could

01:22:58.000 see this miles person could see that there were other women. 1.00

01:23:00.960 This is a quote again amongst myself that were notably upset.

01:23:04.960 And the female witness said this person came there.

01:23:08.020 It looks with the intention of starting a problem.

01:23:11.600 This cannot be protected by the law.

01:23:12.980 So I a couple of thoughts on this case, just generally big picture.

01:23:18.360 These are things that are going to have to be decided in court.

01:23:21.740 And I think that's part of when we go down the line that he's filing or she's filing all

01:23:26.500 of these lawsuits.

01:23:27.920 It reminds me of back in the day in Florida when the ADA policies changed and there will

01:23:33.380 be people that were wheelchair bound that would hook up with a lawyer and go to every

01:23:36.620 establishment and see if they had the proper ramps and elevators. 0.98

01:23:40.840 And if they had made the updates and if they didn't, they would file lawsuits.

01:23:44.280 And again, we'd have to decide in the courts would have to decide, did it apply retroactively?

01:23:48.600 Were they in violation right now?

01:23:50.660 I think that's probably part of what is going on.

01:23:53.160 But I think the hot yoga studio also is going to have to look into the actions of the plaintiff

01:23:59.640 in this case.

01:24:00.420 And if her being barred from the showers has nothing to do with her gender identity, but

01:24:08.360 instead her actions while in the locker room.

01:24:11.420 And if they ban her from the locker room because of her actions in the locker room, that's 1.00

01:24:15.620 different than banning her because she's transgender. 1.00

01:24:18.680 But let's face it, the law should not protect this person and allow this person to enter the

01:24:24.340 female locker room, even if there wasn't weird behavior inside the locker room. 1.00

01:24:28.680 No woman wants to look at a penis in the women's locker room. 1.00

01:24:31.640 That's a fact. 1.00

01:24:33.100 That's the truth.

01:24:34.720 And Beth, you know as well as I do that there are real reasons why they created female 1.00

01:24:38.300 only spaces to begin with, whether it's a bathroom or a locker room.

01:24:41.520 And that is because women have traditionally been the victims of sexual assault repeatedly 1.00

01:24:45.900 in these types of locations.

01:24:47.380 And so now I feel for hot yoga Chelsea because they say, look, we've allowed a lot of trans

01:24:52.060 people into the locker rooms, but this one's really upsetting people.

01:24:56.240 So we drew the line there.

01:24:57.540 But they have to let even the ones who aren't upsetting people.

01:25:01.100 Well, they probably are.

01:25:01.740 But I'm just saying not doing this weird stuff.

01:25:03.580 They have to because of the New York City law.

01:25:05.700 And what they've said in this article is we've been informed by our lawyers.

01:25:10.480 This is somebody who oversees six commercial buildings in Manhattan, just giving color

01:25:13.540 commentary.

01:25:14.500 We've been informed by our lawyers to change everything.

01:25:16.880 Everything has to be a neutral bathroom now in order to avoid this problem.

01:25:20.460 And that's not a solution either, because I was just in it.

01:25:23.460 I just had to go to a neutral bathroom last week in New York City.

01:25:26.060 You were like there's just a bunch of stalls and you come out and you have to wash your hands

01:25:29.500 next to a man that doesn't protect women any better.

01:25:32.400 I don't want that.

01:25:33.200 It's a it's a confined space.

01:25:34.840 It's a it's in the back.

01:25:36.640 It's behind closed doors.

01:25:38.220 And I don't want, honestly, to be pulling up my skirt or down my pants in a stall next

01:25:44.140 to a man.

01:25:44.580 And I don't know who's in there or how he plans on using this space.

01:25:47.620 This this law cannot stand, Beth.

01:25:50.220 So I think and I agree with Peter, there need to be challenges to the law and every case

01:25:56.980 is sort of fact specific.

01:25:58.020 But I think that we will find more definition as as time goes on, because the terms are pretty

01:26:05.320 vague.

01:26:05.960 I understand what you're saying about your own use of bathrooms when I'm when given a choice.

01:26:10.200 I don't like to go into a bathroom that has a urinal in it.

01:26:13.080 I just don't.

01:26:14.720 And I totally get what you're saying, because we're of that generation that's living through

01:26:20.500 this transition.

01:26:22.380 Younger people are very accustomed to it, but it's just not my life experience.

01:26:27.840 So it is taking some getting used to, although I plenty of I know plenty of people who are

01:26:33.700 transgender.

01:26:34.360 That's fine.

01:26:35.340 But I think the law does need to kind of be a little more specific.

01:26:39.980 They look, you can create a third bathroom.

01:26:42.180 You can create a third locker room.

01:26:44.140 OK, that's fine.

01:26:45.300 You want to do that.

01:26:45.920 But women can't lose at every turn. 1.00

01:26:48.280 What they're doing right now is every time the woman loses track meet, swim race, bathroom 1.00

01:26:54.320 issue, locker issue, women lose. 1.00

01:26:56.460 You're afraid of sexual assault.

01:26:58.040 Too bad.

01:26:58.720 Check all your instincts.

01:27:00.020 They're not dangerous. 1.00

01:27:01.260 Bullshit. 0.99

01:27:02.140 I'm not saying every trans person is, but there's enough of a faction there that we have 1.00

01:27:05.660 legitimate cause to be concerned.

01:27:07.160 And there's enough of a faction of actual biological men who identify as men who will use this as

01:27:12.580 an invitation to get into our spaces, whether it's a prison or elsewhere, that we have every

01:27:16.740 right to object.

01:27:17.800 This law must change.

01:27:19.600 And we need a case like this.

01:27:20.840 Good.

01:27:21.020 He wants to test the law by by going into all these places and becoming a serial litigant.

01:27:24.920 Let's do that.

01:27:25.560 Let's find strong lawyers who will actually stand up for women and their rights, because 1.00

01:27:29.920 it's just a matter of time before somebody gets hurt.

01:27:31.700 This is absolutely outrageous.

01:27:33.520 All right, let's move on to Trump. 0.82

01:27:35.000 Trump got sued by E. Jean Carroll, who claimed that he raped her some 30 years ago in a Bergdorf 0.81

01:27:40.280 Gerdman in New York.

01:27:41.960 The civil jury.

01:27:43.160 She didn't sue him for rape.

01:27:44.640 She sued him really saying you defamed me by saying it didn't happen and that I was a

01:27:49.780 con, a con artist in making this up. 0.65

01:27:51.860 The civil jury said, we don't we don't think that he raped you. 0.99

01:27:56.600 We do think he sexually abused you. 0.97

01:27:59.500 So something short of rape. 0.97

01:28:01.340 And we also think he defamed you by saying by denying your claims and calling you a con 0.94

01:28:06.200 artist.

01:28:06.620 That's it.

01:28:07.100 They awarded her five million dollars.

01:28:08.900 Trump said all along didn't happen.

01:28:10.280 Didn't know her.

01:28:11.200 This is a lie.

01:28:11.860 Then he goes on post verdict to CNN to do this town hall.

01:28:16.000 And here's what he said.

01:28:18.000 This woman, I don't know her.

01:28:20.160 I never met her.

01:28:21.420 I have no idea who she is. 0.98

01:28:23.020 I have no idea who the hell she's a whack job. 1.00

01:28:27.020 She's a whack job. 1.00

01:28:28.720 So, Peter, she's now refiling, trying to get an additional.

01:28:32.740 I think it's another five million from Trump for what she sees as an additional defamatory

01:28:38.300 statement.

01:28:39.540 Is she right?

01:28:40.060 So theoretically, she could have an additional count for another defamatory statement and

01:28:47.360 additional potentially she could ask for even more money in punitive damages because she 1.00

01:28:52.860 can say that punitive damages are in place to punish and to create a scenario where the

01:28:58.100 wrongdoer stops doing that.

01:29:00.160 We think about it in my world and corporations.

01:29:02.000 It's got to be enough to hurt the corporation for them to make a change so that they do what

01:29:06.300 is right.

01:29:06.680 And she can argue that whatever they awarded against Donald Trump the first time was not

01:29:11.580 enough because he doubled down right afterwards.

01:29:13.980 So it needs to be more money in punitive damages.

01:29:16.360 And theoretically, she could have an additional count of defamation because he doubled down

01:29:20.780 on his prior statements.

01:29:22.240 I don't get this.

01:29:23.120 I don't get this either, Beth.

01:29:24.400 You're allowed to say it didn't happen.

01:29:25.620 So like a man accused or a woman accused of something she didn't do just has to in the

01:29:30.200 wake of a civil verdict, which is 51 percent more likely than not just exceed.

01:29:34.180 Yeah.

01:29:34.300 OK, like why can't he say this is a lie?

01:29:37.600 She's making it up. 0.97

01:29:39.000 She's she's a whack job. 1.00

01:29:40.740 She's a whack job is not that. 1.00

01:29:42.700 That's not a defamatory, suable statement.

01:29:44.400 So let me let me just back up a second and tell you that New York State passed a statute

01:29:50.680 called the Adult Survivors Act for one year, regardless of when the sexual assault happened,

01:29:56.680 you can bring a lawsuit.

01:29:58.580 And so E.

01:29:59.140 Jean Carroll brought her lawsuit for rape and sexual abuse under the Adult Survivor Act.

01:30:04.360 It expires this end of November this year.

01:30:06.700 It's just one year.

01:30:07.320 So she did sue for rape and sexual assault as well. 1.00

01:30:10.060 What I meant to say was it was a civil claim, not criminal.

01:30:13.540 Correct.

01:30:13.940 The correct.

01:30:14.460 All right.

01:30:14.720 Not criminal.

01:30:15.440 Right.

01:30:15.720 There's just civil claim.

01:30:17.340 But the jury did find that statements he made were defamatory.

01:30:22.540 And he went and he made the same statements again.

01:30:24.520 Right.

01:30:25.180 So.

01:30:26.900 That's the problem.

01:30:28.120 And he just needed to back.

01:30:29.160 So he can't deny it.

01:30:30.560 Because a jury because a civil jury said that we believe that he can.

01:30:35.020 He just has to not deny it ever again.

01:30:38.240 I don't think that's the case.

01:30:39.700 I think he can absolutely deny it.

01:30:41.180 I think people can deny things all the time.

01:30:42.980 And that can't be held against them for defamation.

01:30:45.260 I think that cases get overturned all the time.

01:30:48.700 That's why we have appellate courts. 0.99

01:30:50.600 People lose trials that shouldn't.

01:30:52.260 People get convicted.

01:30:53.100 Those convictions get overturned and thrown out.

01:30:55.280 But I think when you make factual statements like I've never met her and she's a whack job and 1.00

01:31:02.140 kind of put those together.

01:31:03.620 That's an opinion.

01:31:04.200 That's not a factual statement.

01:31:05.600 But she's a whack job is a non-actionable statement of opinion. 0.96

01:31:09.760 I've never met her and she's a whack job. 1.00

01:31:13.140 Again, some context based on the claims she's making because I've never met her is arguable.

01:31:18.420 I'm not telling you he's going to lose at all.

01:31:20.620 I'm not telling you he's going to lose.

01:31:21.600 I'm just saying when we attach factual statements with opinions, sometimes those opinions can be

01:31:28.160 related back to the factual statements.

01:31:29.480 And there's an argument before Johnny Depp.

01:31:31.580 Very rarely did these defamation cases go forward and have these multimillion dollar

01:31:35.540 verdicts left and right.

01:31:36.640 And people seeing this as an opportunity to go after somebody that said something you didn't like.

01:31:40.800 But today's day and age, I feel like I've seen more defamation cases and big numbers from

01:31:45.040 juries on defamation cases than I've ever seen before.

01:31:47.660 I don't I don't.

01:31:48.680 This is not America, Beth.

01:31:49.760 If he's not allowed to say it's not true, I don't know her.

01:31:53.160 And I think she's a whack job like that's that's America. 1.00

01:31:56.200 He is allowed to have his negative opinion of this person who he says is making this whole

01:32:00.760 thing up.

01:32:01.180 And by the way, not for nothing, but he has an appeal pending.

01:32:04.260 He's going to file an appeal.

01:32:05.560 We're still within 30 days, I think on this entire verdict.

01:32:08.840 Yeah.

01:32:10.800 Listen, I mean, her lawyer, she's got a great lawyer.

01:32:13.580 Robbie Kaplan is great.

01:32:14.940 And she said that she and her team were researching this issue on whether or not they could even

01:32:20.840 ask for additional damages just going forward on damages only since liability has been established.

01:32:26.500 And clearly, in their opinion, they came up with a big yes.

01:32:31.100 And that's why they filed.

01:32:32.620 Maybe courts will will disagree.

01:32:34.420 But they believe that they are in and, you know, have a base, have a good case.

01:32:40.800 To ask for additional money because he keeps repeating it.

01:32:43.780 I'm betting her against her 100 percent on this one.

01:32:46.340 She's not going to win.

01:32:47.120 And no matter how good she is, she can't turn this one into an actionable civil action.

01:32:50.360 It's just not it's just not or this is not America.

01:32:53.120 OK, let's end with the city bike.

01:32:56.140 Karen.

01:32:56.840 Sorry.

01:32:57.120 And I was like, that's how she's been known.

01:32:59.100 This poor woman, a nurse, 36 years old, six months pregnant, leaves her job at Bellevue,

01:33:04.820 where she's a physician's assistant, gets caught on tape in a confrontation. 0.99

01:33:09.180 She's white and she got in a confrontation with some black. 0.99

01:33:12.360 They say teenagers.

01:33:13.260 They must be on the older side of the teens because they look like men to me over whose

01:33:17.640 city bike it is.

01:33:18.540 It's like a rental rental bike you can get in New York.

01:33:20.940 As it turns out, it's hers. 0.66

01:33:22.340 Her lawyer has produced receipts to show the exact identification mark on the bike.

01:33:27.140 Max matches up with her receipt.

01:33:28.840 And it was hers.

01:33:30.020 And these guys surrounded her and she felt threatened and started yelling for help and

01:33:35.420 was probably called a racist by all these people online.

01:33:38.720 I mean, it was it was I mean, deeply offensive.

01:33:42.020 Do we have a soundbite on this or is this a full screen?

01:33:44.480 Oh, yeah.

01:33:44.700 Here's just a here's a sampling.

01:33:47.960 This is from Dr. Rashad Ritchie of the Young Turks.

01:33:51.880 OK, just like a sampling of what they sounded like.

01:33:55.520 He's of the left and many people on the left just condemned her as a racist right off the

01:33:58.920 bat.

01:33:59.080 I think it's 19.

01:34:00.720 Check it out.

01:34:02.000 The Karenicity is unbelievable. 1.00

01:34:03.700 Put up the picture.

01:34:04.460 We got her name where she works, a boss. 1.00

01:34:09.000 I want to remind you of a couple of things that happened in this video.

01:34:12.380 Obviously, it is telling, right?

01:34:17.180 You know, she said, and I quote, you are hurting my fetus, my unborn child.

01:34:22.380 Did you all hear that part?

01:34:24.520 She said that.

01:34:26.220 Why did she say that?

01:34:27.780 Because that bolsters her argument to do what she's attempting to do, which is theft under 1.00

01:34:34.840 any other circumstance.

01:34:36.240 We will call this attempted theft if the black male went up to the white female who paid for 0.95

01:34:42.080 her opportunity to utilize the device and he decided to grab it and try to take it.

01:34:47.940 We will call that clearly attempted theft.

01:34:51.960 So let's call it as it is.

01:34:54.920 OK, that's one sample.

01:34:56.880 Yahoo headline. 0.91

01:34:58.400 White woman caught on video trying to steal black youth's bike in New York. 0.78

01:35:03.300 Not true.

01:35:04.920 The independent New York City health worker placed on leave after she falsely accused 0.95

01:35:08.520 a black man of bike theft.

01:35:10.420 The Bellevue authorities confirmed the Bellevue Hospital employee was caught on camera attempting

01:35:14.140 to hijack a city bike that a black man had already paid for, according to reports.

01:35:18.720 OK, so, Peter, her lawyer now is saying he's going to sue them all.

01:35:22.820 He's going to Nick Sandman them all.

01:35:24.680 And for defamation, for saying she was a thief when she was nothing of the sort.

01:35:28.340 And this is why it's important, regardless of who the accused is, what they look like,

01:35:34.340 what they say, what they're accused of doing, why we don't jump to conclusions.

01:35:38.440 We don't convict on the first thing we see or hear.

01:35:41.480 We wait to see what's actually produced to prove the truth, because I think if everybody

01:35:46.280 would have done this in the situation and they may have even said it looks really bad

01:35:50.080 or it sounds really bad on the video.

01:35:52.000 But we need to see what actually comes out to prove the truth.

01:35:55.220 This is just a highlight picture of what we should do to wait until we see what actually

01:36:00.040 comes out to prove the truth.

01:36:02.420 I mean, I didn't even think the video looked bad.

01:36:04.360 I thought the video I mean, my guests yesterday are pointing out that what six month old six

01:36:08.440 month pregnant woman picks a fight with a bunch of strange men.

01:36:11.700 It's really not something we do.

01:36:14.640 That's right.

01:36:15.700 And I agree with Peter.

01:36:16.860 We just have to not jump to conclusions and learn the facts before having an opinion like

01:36:24.220 this.

01:36:24.620 I mean, it's very, very unfortunate that this happened.

01:36:28.140 And one good way of of making sure that you don't get sued for defamation is to be careful,

01:36:33.520 be careful and rushing to judgment in a case like this.

01:36:36.240 But they don't learn that the mainstream media sees a narrative.

01:36:39.220 They pack it into their priors and they're off to the races.

01:36:42.100 Beth Peter, thank you both so much for being here.

01:36:44.100 Before we go, don't forget to tune in tomorrow.

01:36:45.760 We're talking about Jillian Michaels live from Sirius XM.

01:36:51.420 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

01:36:53.580 No BS, no agenda and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - May 24, 2023

DeSantis Declares, and Target's ＂Tuck-Friendly＂ Backlash, with Victor Davis Hanson, Beth Karas, and Peter Tragos ｜ Ep. 557

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