The Megyn Kelly Show - Did Fani Willis Lie on Stand, and Alec Baldwin's Trial, with Judge Joe Brown, Marcia Clark, Mark Geragos, and Charles Cooke

00:00:00.000 nature sounds actually have hidden health benefits like calming your nervous system

00:00:06.680 and improving your cognitive abilities discover more ways to see healthy living differently with

00:00:12.260 manulife at manulife.ca health when i found out my friend got a great deal on a wool coat from

00:00:18.240 winners i started wondering is every fabulous item i see from winners like that woman over there with

00:00:25.100 the designer jeans are those from winners or those beautiful gold earrings did she pay full price

00:00:31.400 or that leather tote or that cashmere sweater or those knee-high boots that dress that jacket

00:00:36.720 those shoes is anyone paying full price for anything stop wondering start winning winners

00:00:43.340 find fabulous for less welcome to the megan kelly show live on sirius xm channel 111 every weekday

00:00:50.540 at new east hey everyone i'm megan kelly welcome to the megan kelly show we've got a packed show for

00:01:01.560 you today later we will be joined by an all-star kelly's court panel mark garagos and marcia clark

00:01:07.980 the best they are here for the latest legal headlines and there are some big ones developments in that

00:01:14.620 rust shooting case with alec baldwin as one of the trials is kicking off and also gabby petito's parents

00:01:22.380 going after the parents of brian laundry we'll get into exactly what's happening there plus charlie

00:01:28.520 cook will be here on the latest political updates but we start today with the fanny willis hearing down

00:01:33.940 in georgia and whether she could be facing not just ethics charges but potential criminal or irs

00:01:42.960 problems in the wake of her testimony late last week in georgia and you may know judge joe brown

00:01:50.580 from his long-running tv show he's a former lawyer and tennessee criminal court judge he was a prosecutor

00:01:55.760 he was also i think running defense uh for a time on the on the defense side i should say and he put

00:02:02.980 out a fascinating video recently on what he saw as the potential irs violations revealed in fanny

00:02:10.040 willis's testimony last week beat beat beat boxing actually has hidden health benefits it can help

00:02:18.040 strengthen and protect your voice from injury see healthy living differently with manulife visit

00:02:24.720 manulife.ca slash health yeah judge joe brown such a pleasure to have you long time fan how you doing

00:02:34.200 well good morning ma'am how are you is everything all right with you today everything's great with

00:02:41.200 me i think it's great with you too i don't think it's that great with fanny willis however who not

00:02:47.380 only offered up what seemed to me like a bunch of cockamamie nonsense on how she allegedly reimbursed

00:02:53.940 all these expenses in cash but may have opened up a hornet's nest of ethical and even legal problems

00:03:01.880 for herself i'll tell you this judge and i want to get into your thoughts and what you said on your

00:03:06.380 show the other day because i thought it was interesting but this just breaking uh phil

00:03:09.940 holloway who was on our show yesterday who's down there in georgia covering all this and is a lawyer

00:03:13.780 the fulton county board of ethics is going to take up multiple ethics complaints against fanny willis

00:03:19.440 uh in the beginning of march people are coming in out of the woodwork now to raise various ethical

00:03:25.400 issues about what she testified to and what they know about her and you saw some problems with

00:03:30.500 her testimony the other day too so how did you what what jumped out at you first thing is she might

00:03:37.660 not have had to testify in the first place when she walked in through the sheaf of uh documents down on

00:03:44.960 uh opposing counsel's table put hand on hip walked up with attitude doing steak charm thing with her neck

00:03:53.480 at that point the lawyers for the da's office were arguing that she did not need to testify

00:03:59.860 she decided to override those lawyers and one important aspect of this case is she was not on

00:04:06.720 trial she was merely being a witness at that point and then she put herself into a position where you

00:04:15.180 have the spectacle of the chief prosecuting officer for a major american city atlanta needing to take the

00:04:25.140 fifth amendment so you know one of the things that's interesting is that she had given evidence

00:04:35.940 that there was a tax lien on her home now to clear those up you have to deal with some affidavits

00:04:44.480 and satisfy irs that you should be placed on an intimate payment plan all right then she's talking about

00:04:51.840 she's got 15 000 in cash in the house then we have all of these cash transactions that should have been

00:04:58.360 receded and recorded they weren't you have the 501 case she talked about she got out and she used that for

00:05:07.440 campaign purposes but that was taxable income once she removed it from the account she didn't report

00:05:13.640 that so we've got a real live mess going on here in terms of tax fraud tax evasion and that kind of

00:05:19.800 thing we've got a specter of money laundering here that raises itself we have a number of issues that

00:05:27.260 she brought out nobody had developed them before that actually ironically put her under the

00:05:37.660 spotlight that comes from the georgia rico statues that statutes that she's proceeding against mr trump

00:05:50.020 under so my my you get on the stand and you were prosecuting somebody and you blurt out stuff

00:05:57.220 under oh recorded everybody looking it makes you look like you need to be prosecuted for the same

00:06:05.980 statute now on the thing that people are getting sidetracked on well she had this affair it just

00:06:14.780 happened you know they ran into each other on the job no she had this affair going before he got

00:06:23.340 brought in as a special prosecutor well it really doesn't make any difference because if she was

00:06:30.340 dealing with him before he got appointed she should have approached the judge in camera and advised him

00:06:38.220 of his uh her ethical conflict and if it developed afterwards as soon as it did she should have walked in

00:06:46.880 and talked to the judge in camera that means in his chambers confidentially about it and giving him the option of saying well

00:06:55.020 he's got to go because you're signing off on his claims for reimbursement so you do have some saying what's going on

00:07:06.840 and because of what you said about your intentions toward mr trump before the election even occurred

00:07:16.800 we needed an independent counsel so this is bad now if the court said well i think you can stay on but we're going to have to reveal this to the other side

00:07:28.840 she might have had second thoughts and said well okay we'll let it go and some other da's office can come in and go through all of the changes relative to this case

00:07:42.460 but i want to have it so badly i've just got my hooks in it i'm not going to let it go i don't tell so either way

00:07:50.460 if it started before he got on his special prosecutor or it started after he was already on the affair i'm talking about it's bad because she should have brought it to the court's attention

00:08:03.380 now that's a very good point let me just stop you there just just for just to organize the thoughts for the audience i'll take them in reverse order

00:08:11.480 that's a very good point about how she should have gone to this judge once the affair started by her own admission

00:08:18.920 you know we have reason to believe it it started long before she hired him but let's say they're right that it happened in 2022 after she brought him on board

00:08:26.800 no question at that point she was paying him well above what the other prosecutors were making that she had brought in

00:08:34.380 and she was certainly paying him well above what any prosecutor in her da's office was making so by any measure more than people who worked as da's

00:08:44.560 under her were making and she was enjoying the fruits of that labor there's no question they were taking trips together he was footing the bill

00:08:54.260 she now says she was reimbursing him but there are no receipts but your point is she had an obligation to go to the judge at that point and say

00:09:01.000 i've brought in this person i am now in a romantic sexual relationship with this person who is getting paid above market

00:09:09.580 versus my own da's and versus the other two prosecutors who i've brought in and it has the potential to look at least

00:09:17.060 like a conflict of interest for me and judge it's up to you whether i should withdraw from this case or what should happen

00:09:24.920 from this case she had an obligation to bring it to the court's attention

00:09:27.380 all right exactly nobody had to ask her under the canons of ethics she had a need to come in and advise

00:09:35.780 now here's the other thing too she signs off on this and you have to get a perspective for the

00:09:44.400 exorbitant amount of money he was being compensated for this case has not even been set for trial

00:09:50.580 she already been paid roughly twice with the attorney general of the united states of america gets paid

00:09:57.420 per year for handling all of the business of the country he has been paid so far more than what the

00:10:05.660 president of the united states gets paid per year so keep that into context you multiply well don't

00:10:14.220 multiply but if you add up all of what the other prosecutors have submitted as a bill it isn't even

00:10:21.520 a third of what he's been compensated so far and this thing has not even had any hearings on it

00:10:28.120 in essence that are of significance so we've got a potentially enormous bill

00:10:36.200 that the state of georgia the county of fulton that means atlanta the people that live there are

00:10:43.020 going to have to foot because look out of the same fund you have to pay other attorneys who've been

00:10:50.740 appointed when there's a conflict and say the public defender's office cannot be appointed

00:10:55.820 and see you have to keep in context she is not on trial at this point so she might wind up in that

00:11:04.980 condition but this is a hearing to determine whether or not the fulton county da's office is removed from

00:11:13.160 the case and another office is appointed now the practical matter that everybody in america is concerned

00:11:21.560 with is is is this going to go to trial or be set for trial before the election or after the election

00:11:28.380 if before then you tie up a candidate who is the favorite candidate for a lot of people in this

00:11:35.220 country and you disrupt his ability to campaign which is kind of uh out there somebody new york here

00:11:46.100 another new york somebody florida is trying to get into oh wow we will be i'm going to take over for

00:11:53.100 the country and save it and i'm going to take this guy out so the rest of them don't have to be tempted

00:12:01.280 to vote for it which is kind of crazy one or two or three or five people try to override 640 million

00:12:09.600 people it's kind of strange so that's not right but the other thing is is if another district attorney's

00:12:16.740 office gets involved they may say same thing that happened with her h-u-r the special counsel for

00:12:24.540 the u.s attorney's office or the attorney general and say well under the circumstances we declined to

00:12:31.800 prosecute now you may not need a special prosecutor if you bring in another office that would save

00:12:39.580 a lot of money and expedite the matter and i'm sure that entity would say we need a time we need

00:12:45.760 the time to get up to speed sure how long you need so that's after the election so for some reason

00:12:52.740 i saw one of the dumbest things i've ever seen a lawyer do which is this person came in

00:12:59.860 and instead of acting like you see csi and all of this stuff that people have looked at for the last

00:13:07.580 50 years where the district attorney uh the staff is learned and efficient and the boss is really

00:13:16.220 heavyweight he knows how to or she knows how to get things done and she admonishes her staff about

00:13:25.500 you've crossed the line we have somebody that came across like maybe a high school graduate no insult

00:13:33.580 down in the hood sitting in a beauty salon running her mouth off and let me give you one soundbite that

00:13:42.280 i saw you guys raise on your show that i saw you react to and there was something off-putting about it

00:13:48.240 she was asked fanny willis about the fact that first of all she had a forty six hundred dollar tax

00:13:54.720 lien against her and she was giving him allegedly all these cash reimbursements at the time this forty

00:14:02.780 six hundred dollar tax lien is is looming over her so ashley merchant was asking her about it and um

00:14:11.840 asking well here's what happened here's and you reacted to this on your show in stop five

00:14:17.140 watch you had a tax lien in 2022 forty six hundred dollars if you say i do and you did not use this

00:14:25.380 cash that you had to reimburse mr wade to pay that off correct no i went shopping too when i didn't pay

00:14:31.180 it all i mean it's basically a you know screw you i'll do what i want with my money no matter how in

00:14:37.460 dead i am well i had a former first cousin-in-law who was a chief irs criminal investigator and she said

00:14:47.920 that she often had her staff watch these things to pick up clues that they should investigate so

00:14:59.820 i'm sure somebody was listening and somebody is feverishly trying to get a

00:15:07.320 promotion raise or whatever it is who's going to be on the team to investigate now i just happen to

00:15:14.380 have a i happen to have a friend wesley snipes and i participated in the proceedings against him

00:15:20.320 he got three years in a federal penitentiary not for tax fraud not for tax evasion irs testified that

00:15:28.140 he'd overpaid his taxes by a quarter of a million dollars and had a refund check for him waiting there in

00:15:35.020 court now the interesting thing was is what he did three years for his failure to file a complete set

00:15:42.400 of returns so this not only is not a complete set of return filings if there's no filings at all

00:15:55.300 and she was in private practice so i assume she had to deal with taxes at some point and we have no

00:16:04.980 documentation no receding we've got cash transactions that need to be reported we've got problems here in

00:16:13.240 that the state of georgia demands a little bit more when it comes down to reporting how the taxpayers money

00:16:20.420 got used so what did you do here and then that little gratuitous thing throwing in and like

00:16:27.160 the thing when she got asked about uh she held up this document

00:16:34.340 she was waving it around and she started talking about uh what she had to say and she's not a southern

00:16:43.100 gentleman like mr wade and she why do you throw this in and see the other thing is the trier of fact

00:16:51.420 is the judge why do you try to piss the judge off what is wrong with you have you ever tried a case i

00:16:58.580 looked at this and i said you know what this woman i do not think this woman has been in front of a jury

00:17:05.820 alton and when i tried criminal cases as a defense lawyer and i think i had 42 first degree murder

00:17:14.000 cases where death penalty was demanded where i was lead counsel on and a bunch more other than that i had

00:17:22.640 several thousand trials in my career and i ran into some fine lady lawyers at least five of them that

00:17:32.700 i dealt with or i mentored or who practiced in front of me when i was a judge or now judges

00:17:40.160 there's at least one lady fine lady that is on the sixth circuit court of appeals i'm her mentor by the

00:17:47.880 way i thought she would have made an excellent nomination for the supreme court and another somebody

00:17:53.160 i'm aware of a fine lady lawyer been around for a while on the second circuit court of appeals in dc

00:18:00.560 she should have been nominated they are excellent trial lawyers they would not have done this but

00:18:06.800 there's a certain select small number that do this and you could always beat them because they would

00:18:15.080 put their egos in this and instead of trying the case they would try to beat you so the strategy and

00:18:23.320 tactic is during the trial you let them try to beat up on you and then at the end ladies and gentlemen

00:18:29.020 the jury the prosecution had the obligation of proving their case beyond a reasonable doubt into

00:18:36.260 a moral certainty however what you saw was opposition from the prosecution was trying to beat defense

00:18:44.860 counsel so she tried to jump counsel that's me and put on a good show but she forgot to try her case

00:18:53.700 and you'd walk your client and they'd be how'd you do that because you were fool enough to try and

00:19:00.560 make it a personal thing between me and you and i hardly know you just hearing you describe it is so

00:19:06.460 familiar now having watched it for two days that's exactly what was happening here's another soundbite

00:19:11.800 in which she's got this sort of oh you who do you think you are to ashley merchant who was trying to

00:19:16.820 pin her down on these um this tax lien and all the alleged cash she was doling out while she was

00:19:22.840 almost five thousand dollars in debt to the government watch uh here in soundbite four but

00:19:28.320 you were saying that you had amounts of cash you still had that lien in 2022 when you were dating

00:19:32.980 wade and going on these trips so the cash that you gave him that could have been used to pay this

00:19:37.100 tax lien on you're gonna tell me how to pay my bills this is not relevant as it relates to

00:19:42.000 why we're here today mr merchant um if you are you trying to establish that she was insolvent in some

00:19:49.780 way um i definitely was trying to establish that that she did not have these mass amounts of cash

00:19:55.760 that she's talking about yes you saw it there right judge you're gonna tell me how to pay my bills

00:20:01.440 also the judge and the counsel that was questioning her missed one thing is relevant to testing her

00:20:09.060 credibility too right we saw that repeatedly and you were you were picking up on you know

00:20:16.460 the cash thing and whether this could potentially create problems for her legally but how if if it's

00:20:23.920 true and she had all this cash that she was giving him how is it potentially unlawful well in other

00:20:29.740 words what happens is she's testified to forty five hundred twenty four hundred fifty dollars

00:20:37.560 but we don't have receipts we don't have any idea how much so what i've found is that when there are

00:20:47.420 large amounts of money that need to be laundered a lot of times you will sit there and get in the idea

00:20:53.880 that we will have some showing and not all of it but you see she put her foot in her mouth

00:21:03.160 by doing what she did because it opened the door she didn't have to say that see the deal is

00:21:12.820 if she kept her mouth shut he's got the money we don't necessarily know what he's done with the money

00:21:21.960 he got approved he can do with it what he wants iris may want its taxes the state may want its taxes

00:21:31.460 business income subject to taxation she tells us she gave it to him as a gratuity she tried to cover

00:21:41.580 it by saying i'm proving to him that i don't need to be paid for well what about the dj in your house

00:21:50.140 you're paying for and what about weight and you're trying to do what uh buy your sex you know like

00:21:56.520 one somebody posted on x an interesting comment it was the trick paying her gigolo so that looks bad

00:22:06.940 all the way around when you get yourself in that mess well i agree it looks bad but i but i like and i

00:22:13.260 can see potential other charges but i don't see you know you're allowed to give gifts you can give i

00:22:18.220 i don't remember what the number is but you have to what you like you have to report them yeah you

00:22:24.880 got to report them over a certain amount and see the question then becomes is did he claim them as

00:22:32.820 income and he would owe taxes on them so what happens is now you've implicated him and by the way

00:22:41.520 she gratuitously attempted to throw him under the bus quite a few times but you notice during his

00:22:48.900 testimony he was saying i do not recall that or i don't remember that so that's like you get when

00:22:56.460 you have an experienced well-coached witness and you've got an organized crime case that you're

00:23:02.960 trying or defending as a lawyer or you're prosecuting or you're sitting as judge presiding over now

00:23:09.160 what you saw there is a case where the judge is in the hot seat because everybody in america is

00:23:16.680 paying attention to it i was there i was the last judge on the james earl ray matter in other words

00:23:23.020 did james earl ray actually kill martin luther king and uh considering that he never confessed he just

00:23:29.500 entered the police saying i didn't do it but it's in my best interest to do so everybody was paying

00:23:36.020 attention and that was back in the mid-90s so i know what it is to sit on a hot seat where everybody

00:23:41.800 in the country is looking at you and having to dot all the i's and cross all the t's and i think this

00:23:48.940 judge did an outstanding job and i just want to make a remark here it's kind of off of the immediate

00:23:55.220 point but a contrast between this judge and that disgraceful idiot in new york that uh firing

00:24:04.020 mr trump yes 300 i don't like to say his name 385 million and that's not going to stand on appeal

00:24:13.840 because the verdict was inconsistent with the proof there was no proof in that record that i heard

00:24:21.700 uh that showed any kind of fraud it's like i write you a check you take it to the bank and cash it

00:24:31.080 and somebody comes in later and says i wrote you a bad check and he said no he did not cash it yes he

00:24:38.060 did well under oath i got my money i presented the check it cleared and then the judge who's trying it

00:24:46.000 not a jury saying i find that this woman got a bad check well where is the proof of the bad check

00:24:53.040 evaluating evaluating malargo the golf course at 18 million dollars and claiming the amount that was

00:25:05.080 uh stipulated by mr trump was excessive well hell they have houses around that golf course that cost

00:25:13.180 18 million dollars so right he's doing the very same thing he accuses trump of doing in the reverse he

00:25:19.120 says trump overvalued and misstated the size for example of his new york city apartment in saying i

00:25:24.980 have a bunch of assets worth a bunch of money but then the judge in response undervalued all of trump's

00:25:30.480 assets like mar-a-lago which is the sprawling beautiful spectacular waterfront estate which he

00:25:35.640 says is worth 18 million dollars i i take your point tax fraud um that potentially could be at play

00:25:42.200 here all income according to our we checked with a financial and tax expert um all income must be

00:25:48.680 reported to the irs from whatever source derived and a kickback a kickback is illegal income that would

00:25:57.860 also have to be reported a kickback is a type of bribery it's an illegal payment intended as compensation

00:26:05.880 for preferential treatment could be money could be a gift could be anything of value so the

00:26:11.220 the implication here is that she received kickbacks from nathan wade payments intended as compensation

00:26:18.700 for the preferential treatment he got by getting this high value position with her the kickback to her

00:26:26.380 was something of value these trips the gifts and so on and that this income by her would have had to

00:26:35.220 be reported to the irs it legal or illegal and it doesn't look like yes now that's what you're going

00:26:42.700 for but now here well go ahead when i was a trial lawyer defense lawyer i had clients it rob were accused of

00:26:49.860 robbing banks and they threw in tax evasion charges because they didn't report the income from the bank

00:26:55.800 property so yeah no way yeah wow and also you know and also if the bank driver has to do it fanny and

00:27:05.740 have to do it but now and then there's another one other thing too uh biden you can thank biden for

00:27:13.920 this he and eastland got a thing passed back about 1981 um 79 81 making a false statement to a federal

00:27:25.260 federal officer or agency is also a federal felony and i had the problem with clients got 19 counts on an

00:27:36.600 indictment you you walk him on 18 and on 19 they get him for making a knowingly false statement to a federal

00:27:45.820 agent or agency because uh they made a false statement it might even ring as little as we are here sir

00:27:55.160 because we're investigating so and so and so and so and so and the client says ill advisedly i don't know

00:28:01.460 what you're talking about well it is told him so they get him on that and judge jacks him up on the

00:28:08.020 sentencing so she's got problems and this by the way again is a method it's complicated but people used to

00:28:19.640 launder money right which is when and and see there's a spectacle here where did all this money

00:28:29.300 come from was it the dnc providing her with money or an incentive to go after mr trump since she said

00:28:38.120 campaigned on i'm going to get him sitting president he's still in office and you're campaigning for da

00:28:44.340 i'm going to get him he hasn't even been involved with election day november 2020 for any of this to happen

00:28:53.100 so you know it's kind of interesting because you know this is the other thing i've been a prosecutor

00:28:58.980 and you have an obligation to support justice which means you're honoring the interest of justice the

00:29:05.460 state wishes to uh dismiss the charges against the defendant when you're predisposed up front that's

00:29:13.640 like uh barrier chief of police for joe stalin secret police said find me an individual and i'll find the

00:29:25.220 crime the um just for the audience money laundering is basically they ask whether you engaged in a

00:29:32.180 transaction in an effort to hide the source of those funds typically i actually when i practiced

00:29:38.620 law did a couple of these cases with the mob and they would create like a beauty parlor or a funeral

00:29:43.960 home and that was basically what they used to wash their money that they got through their illegal

00:29:49.340 activities that they weren't really they were in part legit operations but really they were only there

00:29:53.900 to do one thing which was wash the dough all right there's one other thing about fanny two other

00:29:57.920 questions actually i want to go into with you all right go ahead she gets up there and she starts

00:30:04.320 talking about how she was so broke she had run prior to winning the role of da she had run for this

00:30:11.820 judgeship and she lost and she talked about how she had loaned her own campaign fifty thousand dollars

00:30:19.260 and then she lost and her campaign allegedly paid back eight thousand dollars of that loan to her

00:30:28.760 but that would have left her in the hole so this was only in late 2018 almost 2019 which is three years

00:30:37.920 before she allegedly has wads of cash thousands and thousands sitting in her home so we don't know

00:30:46.800 where where did that come from because you just told us you're almost fifty thousand dollars in debt

00:30:51.200 to your old campaign and now on top of that judge there is an article out today talking about how

00:30:59.520 this is the georgia star news about how she did not comply allegedly with her reporting obligations

00:31:07.880 on either one of those loans she made to her campaign one for nineteen thousand she was late in reporting it

00:31:14.660 and then one for thirty thousand which it appears according to this piece she has never reported

00:31:21.040 at all and yet she received a campaign repayment for eighty five hundred all of this could cause legal

00:31:27.680 headaches for her and also just makes it sound implausible that she was all this money in debt to her

00:31:34.540 campaign that she owed five grand to the government in a tax lien and yet we're supposed to believe

00:31:39.800 she's got thousands and thousands of dollars in cash in her home that she just kept doling out

00:31:44.800 to her lover who does have receipts for all the payments he made yes and see the other thing too

00:31:52.100 the money she got from her 501k that became taxable income that she did not report did not pay taxes on

00:32:01.860 now because she used to fund her campaign yeah so she did not pay taxes on it and she donated it to

00:32:10.040 her campaign that's not tax deductible either so she's in a mess so when you get the reimbursements

00:32:16.740 for the campaign the way it looks is she got the 50k out of the account that's taxable when she gets the

00:32:23.480 various supposed repayments from the campaign they add that on top so well you just mentioned

00:32:29.960 councilor the eighty five hundred so what we've got now is fifty eight thousand five hundred then you

00:32:36.400 add the other so it multiplies and you have a real live mess and none of that got reported and no taxes

00:32:43.860 got paid so that we know of that we know of that we know of and how do we know this one of the dumbest

00:32:54.520 moves yet one of the dumbest dumb crook moves i have seen in a long time and in 50 years of doing

00:33:03.120 this since i got out of ucla where mr floyd attorney floyd went i have seen few stunts this dumb he's one of

00:33:16.240 other special prosecutors no mr floyd is her father i'm talking about john floyd i went to school with

00:33:25.140 him okay and he was an aggressive upfront guy he was very articulate he said he's had at least a

00:33:34.900 thousand trials i believe it he showed it

00:33:37.500 but he couldn't help her because she's got a big mouth and she is that kind of witness where

00:33:45.360 it's like give you an example i had a client he was a mechanic for a trucking firm and we had proved

00:33:55.660 this injury and we had everything going we looked like we were going to get a half million out of this

00:34:04.660 thing and any further questions the judge asked uh i said no sir and the defense representing the

00:34:17.640 country and company said no sir and the judge said sir you may step down this fool stands up takes one

00:34:24.800 step say oh yeah i guess i forgot to tell everybody i got hurt before this happened oh boy

00:34:31.440 what did you just do you didn't even tell me about that where did you open your mouth

00:34:42.100 silence is cold this is why you started off by saying she should have taken the fifth amendment on

00:34:49.040 some of these things and not felt the need to shoot her mouth off because she was getting herself in

00:34:54.260 trouble and see she lied to the court on multiple occasions you she's inconsistent and what she lies

00:35:03.140 about is a lie or it's not and if it's not a lie she's still in trouble because if she's telling the

00:35:10.980 truth she did not realize apparently what kind of hole she was putting her in and if she was lying

00:35:17.620 she was telling the truth but she contradicted herself so now as an officer of the court

00:35:24.260 you have told a lie to the court and see you know counsel is an officer of the court you represent

00:35:31.900 that court that's right you have special standing it's like you go in and get certain drugs it's

00:35:39.360 class schedule well schedule one you're looking at 25 years in a federal penitentiary but if the doctor

00:35:45.100 prescribes it for you you're okay so it's like this with lawyers you have a a public trust factor

00:35:52.980 and then i did not mention this but the worst part of this is remember this phrase the appearance of an

00:36:00.620 impropriety in other words as a lawyer as a prosecutor you're not just held to account for doing something

00:36:09.840 wrong you are forbidden to give the appearance that you have even if you did so one way or the other

00:36:18.280 however we take what this woman did it gives the appearance of an impropriety which by the way is

00:36:25.460 actionable by a bar committee so wow this this judge said that he gets it he he said that right at the

00:36:33.180 outset that i'm going to have a hearing on this because there's enough evidence for me to find

00:36:36.920 potentially uh a conflict or the appearance of a conflict or of or of impropriety the question uh i also

00:36:44.600 wanted to ask you was on in that same vein nathan wade also an officer of the court very clear that

00:36:51.620 he lied in his divorce proceeding in those sworn interrogatory answers where he said i never had

00:36:58.580 another woman on the side while married to my wife which he's still technically married and he's already

00:37:04.220 admitted under oath that he had an affair with fanny willis so he lied he lied under his sworn

00:37:08.820 interrogatory answers and then tried to go back and amend them after he saw ashley merchants motion two

00:37:16.500 weeks ago and his amendment tried to plead privacy a privacy privilege which isn't even a correction of

00:37:24.480 what he originally answered and i look even a civilian is not allowed to lie in their sworn interrogatory

00:37:32.900 answers but he's got the double barrel of he lied and he was an officer of the court while he did it

00:37:39.200 so what do you think is going to happen to nathan wade well technically it'll probably be resolved by

00:37:45.460 whether or not he was acting as an officer of that court when he gave it and also as to whether or not it was

00:37:52.180 perjury depending upon george's law which i haven't checked recently but some states have a provision where

00:37:59.640 it's not perjury unless it remains as a lie that materially affects the outcome of the matter or

00:38:10.200 the determination of an issue so technically i guess he could go back in fess up he'd probably get

00:38:17.260 reprimanded by the bar for the appearances and he would escape perjury if he fessed up so to speak

00:38:25.300 but that i it depends on georgia so how does that play for you if you're the judge in this proceeding

00:38:33.740 you're judge mcafee and you see nathan wade saying i swear the affair didn't begin until 2022

00:38:39.620 but you know he's already lied about this affair in sworn interrogatory answers in his divorce

00:38:46.480 proceeding uh you know do you think it makes you more or less likely to believe his testimony on the

00:38:52.520 stand and you know the judge has got away credibility now nathan wade and fanny willis

00:38:57.280 on the one side versus this uh robin yurti the friend and maybe maybe uh the divorce lawyer too

00:39:03.300 seems to have said at least out of court that there was this pre-consular here's what's going on in the

00:39:10.140 judge's head it's what he would charge a jury ladies and gentlemen of the jury if you've heard

00:39:14.620 inconsistent or contradictory testimony from a witness and you have come to doubt the credibility

00:39:24.020 of that witness's testimony relative to one aspect of the case you may infer from the doubt that has

00:39:34.060 been created that the witness is not being truthful as to any of the testimony that has been given so

00:39:43.520 if you find somebody lied about it in another words one instance and he got cold busted for it you can

00:39:52.640 infer that uh that shades his testimony drops its credibility and you're entitled to disregard all of

00:40:02.460 it if you find any of it has been falsified or compromised and see another thing too and miss hanny fanny

00:40:10.860 uh you get up there and you're supposed to be the head prosecutor don't you remember the instructions that the

00:40:20.480 judge will give a jury and he has how as to how they are supposed to evaluate and assess the credibility of the

00:40:29.260 witness i know in tennessee it goes ladies and gentlemen of the jury you may uh look at and evaluate the

00:40:36.200 demeanor and bearing of the witness on the witness stand etc etc and you go into that and when she put

00:40:43.360 that clown show on the jury is entitled to disregard her testimony diminish the value of her testimony or

00:40:51.760 uh knock down their assessment of her credibility so it's like what the devil are you doing there's no

00:40:59.300 jury in the box no trier of fact which under american law is what 12 people on a jury say that's the

00:41:07.200 reasonable person you have one individual the experienced judge yeah and he's what are you doing to

00:41:15.780 yourself here's the last question i bet you were dangerous in a courtroom so anyway i'm listening to

00:41:22.200 you go ahead not as dangerous as you judge your resume is unbelievable it's crazy i would have loved

00:41:28.160 to have seen some of those cases um well here's my last go ahead i was one of my most famous lines go

00:41:36.440 ahead on friday we had nathan wade's former law partner friend and one-time divorce lawyer take the

00:41:46.160 stand and ashley merchant lawyer for defendant roman was trying to get him to admit that he knew this

00:41:54.420 affair was going on long before 2022 he kept saying attorney-client privilege every discussion ever

00:42:00.380 attorney-client privilege well we know not every discussion was privileged but it came down to

00:42:06.440 let's say it was privileged let's say the only reason he knew about their affair and it was going

00:42:11.820 on in 19 20 21 is through attorney-client privilege and you're the sitting judge and now you've had

00:42:20.240 nathan wade take the stand and say in your courtroom under oath the affair did not begin until 2022

00:42:26.760 you've had fanny willis the sitting district attorney in your county take the affair and say the affair did

00:42:32.620 not begin until 2022 but you know because in camera you've talked to this lawyer terrence bradley and

00:42:39.840 he says judge it was happening in 20 21 and maybe even 19 i saw it with my own eyes but it was technically

00:42:48.800 privileged because i only saw it because nathan wade told me in our attorney-client relationship

00:42:53.480 which privilege rules the day the attorney-client privilege or the obligations as an officer of the

00:43:01.400 court not to allow a fraud to be perpetrated on his honor okay now you have two things going here one

00:43:08.360 you have the fact that none of the parties you have interested are actually parties to this issue

00:43:17.620 except wade but nobody is on trial it's a civil matter it's an administrative motion should they be

00:43:27.120 removed now fanny willis is a witness the law partner is a witness wade is an interested party but he

00:43:48.040 hasn't been charged with anything nobody's asking for money damages and he's not facing any penal

00:43:53.900 sanction he's a witness he's a witness and you know you can call witnesses in a civil matter even if

00:43:59.660 they have an interest in the outcome they still have to testify now in your head you can exclude

00:44:07.200 all of what uh comes out as an inference with the attorney-client privilege being asserted which is

00:44:18.000 appropriate but you also have to consider in this matter the clear testimony from who the friend girl

00:44:28.440 who says we discussed this yes we discussed this so in the civil proceeding unlike the

00:44:37.920 overlay shadow of beyond a reasonable doubt on what has happened with mr trump and the other multiple

00:44:47.100 co-defendants what happens here is it's just by the preponderance of the evidence and when you

00:44:55.000 assess the preponderance of the evidence you can give weight to the testimony as you see fit

00:45:02.840 and in determining the weight that you give to a witness's testimony you may assess the demeanor and

00:45:11.420 bearing of the bearing of the witness on the stand and the mold manner and fashion of the testimony

00:45:17.240 and miss fanny's testimony you can pretty much discount if you choose without stretching things if you

00:45:25.600 were the trier of fact meaning the judge so you can say i don't buy anything she claimed and considering

00:45:34.820 that there is evidence that the two of them have a romantic relationship that would infer that there is a

00:45:40.820 great commonality of interest so one of the parts of the charge on assessing the credibility of a

00:45:49.060 witness is ladies and gentlemen of the jury you may assess the interest or lack of interest that a

00:45:55.140 witness has in the outcome of the proceedings so the judge can properly just like if he was a jury

00:46:02.840 and hadn't heard any of this attorney-client privilege recitation and anything back in chambers they would be entitled to say

00:46:13.780 wade and willis have a commonality of interest in the outcome of this he's made

00:46:19.660 650 695 000 700 000 and it hasn't even been set to trial she's gotten a piece of this action

00:46:30.300 so we can discount their credibility so the one person that's not been impeached is the friend girl

00:46:37.580 so that would be the principal evidence that the judge or the jury could rely upon all right i have

00:46:44.720 less than 60 seconds i got less than 60 seconds left prediction on what this judge is going to rule

00:46:50.740 are they staying on this case i don't think so because it solves a whole lot of problems if they go

00:46:57.980 and i agree with you the judge seems fair seems like a straight shooter so we'll learn more we

00:47:04.440 think this friday when he's expected to either take additional testimony or summary arguments

00:47:09.520 summations of sorts uh for a hearing i guess it's a little unusual but he might do it we'll find out

00:47:15.360 judge joe brown please come back it's so fun talking to you and i apologize for not calling you

00:47:21.560 counselor i did not realize well i i moved on to greener pastures as i know you did too and uh but

00:47:29.340 i remember my 10 years as a lawyer fondly once a lawyer always a lawyer you have the training in

00:47:36.200 your head oh thank you judge all the best to be continued my dear thank you what a pleasure what a

00:47:43.620 treat uh okay coming up charlie cook and then kelly's court back into the courtroom

00:47:47.120 2024 is a totally unique political year from the fanny willis case against trump to his various other

00:47:56.600 legal woes and today the family of president biden is facing a series of headlines about

00:48:01.060 their own actions as the president's brother heads to capitol hill for a deposition and attorneys for

00:48:06.820 his son hunter seek to dismiss the tax charges against him joining me now charles cw cook senior

00:48:12.760 writer for national review and host of the charles cw cook podcast charles great to have you back on

00:48:18.200 the show so you would think that with all of his family members enmeshed in various pay-to-play

00:48:24.360 scandals corruption scandals involving the biden name um the president would be in a near panic

00:48:30.800 with 39 or 38 approval ratings and it appears you would be right if you thought that because what is

00:48:37.880 he doing today one of your very favorite things charles this is one of your very favorite things

00:48:43.240 he's quote forgiving more student loans this is i don't mean to this is like it's mean of me because charles

00:48:51.380 really doesn't like this he doesn't like this topic but here's what's happened uh refresher for

00:48:57.480 the audience supreme court blocked biden sweeping student loan quote forgiveness plan last june

00:49:02.100 and ever since then he's been trying to do an end around that prohibition he's canceled debt quote

00:49:08.700 unquote for almost 3.9 million borrowers totaling about 138 billion in relief we're supposed to

00:49:15.020 believe that that has no consequence he just waved it away with his magic wand so good on them and

00:49:19.940 what was the rest of us who you know the losers who paid their debt and new today is the biden

00:49:26.140 administration is now going to forgive another 1.2 billion in student debt for 153 000 borrowers

00:49:35.600 enrolled in its new program the relief is going to go to borrowers who have been in repayment for a

00:49:41.420 decade or longer and who originally took out 12 grand or less so i think this is a moment for us to

00:49:48.140 applaud those people on just waiting out the system long enough that they finally got a president who wants

00:49:53.140 their vote badly enough he's just going to take out his magic eraser what do you think i swear you're

00:49:58.540 trying to give me an aneurysm we're still doing this president biden's response to being slapped down

00:50:09.460 by the supreme court last year was to say i'm going to find another way that's not hyperbole go look at

00:50:15.140 his statement immediately after the court offered his ruling he said i'm going to find another way and he

00:50:21.840 has the numbers here are staggering he said it was 137 billion dollars already i think according to pen

00:50:29.980 water and that number is going to go up above 400 billion dollars closer to half a trillion dollars

00:50:37.660 that is a mind-blowing number he is doing via other means what he was not allowed to do in one fell

00:50:49.560 swoop and it makes it difficult to discuss the legalities of it because some of it's legal some

00:50:55.500 i think it's not some of it's rulemaking that is suspect but i think what is so irritating to me about

00:51:02.640 this the law aside is that this seems to be biden's obsession you know we're told that he can't secure

00:51:09.580 the border but he can do this over and over and over again why there is no group in the united states

00:51:20.020 less deserving than those who have been through college that's not because i dislike people who

00:51:26.220 went to college i went to college but those people are doing better than everyone else megan look at

00:51:31.100 the stats make up a stat and google better for college graduates employment prospects career

00:51:39.400 earnings home ownership divorce rate is lower for people health outcomes are better we already spent

00:51:47.980 nearly 300 billion dollars pausing student loan repayments during covid again to help the best of

00:51:56.240 people in our society and now joe biden without congress is trying to spend nearly half a trillion

00:52:02.100 dollars over 10 years to not cancel loans not forgive loans but to transfer the liability for those loans

00:52:10.480 which have already been spent the product has already been received to people who didn't go to college i

00:52:16.260 find it baffling and revolting and i can only conclude that it is an attempt to buy votes in an election year

00:52:23.240 if you look at the letter that he's sending out today which was previewed in the press it's i have

00:52:29.480 done this my administration me he doesn't mention congress he doesn't mention the legislature he doesn't

00:52:36.320 give a statutory reference it's me i mine and it's obvious that it is the product as you said at the outset

00:52:44.040 of a panic yeah yeah at 100 it is an attempt to buy votes i agree with you entirely and he should be in a

00:52:51.560 panic not only because of the biden corruption things which are heating up but i mentioned his

00:52:56.640 poll numbers of course there was the her hur report and just today you know we get a glimpse of the

00:53:02.960 president and they've been putting out these weird videos charles you know he can't do live events

00:53:07.980 apparently i mean we're going to see him at the state of the union we'll find out whether he can just

00:53:11.680 read off the prompter but he can't do like a trump rally for forget it he certainly couldn't do a live

00:53:18.060 debate so they've been putting out these little pre-packaged videos of him sitting with a black

00:53:23.180 family trying to say your dad really loves you or your grandpa okay and now today we get a bit of

00:53:31.520 president biden addressing um nato and the death of alexi nivaldi which we should talk about it we

00:53:37.760 haven't gotten to that yet on the show and what's interesting about the video is that it's two minutes

00:53:43.400 long there are roughly 30 edits in his two minute video do we have a clip of this you guys trying to

00:53:54.060 see if we do yeah we do okay watch the short clip an attack on one is an attack on all that's what

00:54:00.800 nato's article five says it's a simple but powerful concept and it embodies why one of america's greatest

00:54:07.200 sources of strength is our alliances they're not only important to us they're important to the rest of

00:54:11.920 the world now there's a reason why we had six cuts in 15 seconds and if you keep watching it gets

00:54:17.360 worse that reminds me of the fake outtakes at the end of talladega nights the ricky bobby movie

00:54:23.980 where they can't they can't get through two or three seconds without laughing so it's all edited in a

00:54:30.180 weird way i mean it's sad it's sad it's amazing to me that the white house and the democratic party

00:54:39.380 and much of the press believes that this is the sort of thing that it can bully people out of

00:54:45.940 noticing the last number i saw was 86 percent of americans think that biden is too old to be president

00:54:54.920 again americans don't agree on 86 percent of anything that is a enormously important statistic

00:55:05.060 you know the the approval rating of social security is lower than 86 percent the third rail

00:55:12.440 of our politics but the reason that 86 percent of americans think that including a majority of

00:55:19.780 democrats is because it's transparently obvious and it's quite sad but it is transparently obvious

00:55:26.200 when you watch the man he is not like any president that i have ever seen he's not like any world leader

00:55:31.940 for that matter that i have ever seen speak in public this is uncharted territory and this is what

00:55:38.220 it's like now let alone what it would be like by 20 28 29 if he were to get a second term and then

00:55:47.140 survive it and i don't say that flippantly the majority of americans i think maybe 65 66 percent

00:55:53.600 don't think he would survive a second term either because he would die or because he wouldn't be able to

00:55:59.060 finish the job we're just not used to this as a country we've had all sorts of presidents and all

00:56:05.080 sorts of political moments and what people are being asked to vote for does change over time sometimes

00:56:10.760 elections are about the economy sometimes they're about terrorism or foreign policy or crime but we've

00:56:16.940 actually not since at least 1944 when franklin roosevelt ran for his fourth term had a president

00:56:24.960 whom a large proportion of the country worried might not make it of course roosevelt did actually

00:56:30.420 die in 1945 it's quite difficult to tell how worried americans were because we're in the middle of a

00:56:36.240 world war there was a great deal of goodwill for roosevelt he'd been president for a long time

00:56:41.100 polling wasn't particularly good the press was much more able to cover up his condition and so on

00:56:47.040 but people were worried if you go back you will find news coverage of it this this is uncharted waters i've

00:56:53.820 never seen anything like it the highest percentage of americans who thought that a president was not

00:56:59.300 able to do the job uh because he was too old or at least a candidate was bob dole in 1996 that was

00:57:05.700 about 25 one in four 86 well yeah because look at the guy and it's only going one direction that's the

00:57:14.480 thing i've talked about this before but when john mccain was running he called himself a maverick

00:57:20.200 and one of the criticisms of john mccain was that he was too old and uh it might have been

00:57:25.380 stephen colbert i can't remember it was one of those late night hosts but they said he really is

00:57:29.360 a maverick he's he gets criticized for being too old and what does he do he keeps aging that's what

00:57:37.520 we're about to watch with joe biden too so you know we have an election now where we have joe biden's

00:57:42.400 team promising that they're going to keep calling out the crazy from team trump that's their plan for the

00:57:47.840 next year keep calling out the crazy i guess they're not finding much purchase in the criminal

00:57:52.340 trials and so they're going to go back to trump's rhetoric which of course is criticizable and uh so

00:57:58.260 we've got somebody who's almost 200 who's going to try to say i know i'm old but i don't say really

00:58:04.700 crazy stuff like about nato and so on i mean we'll see we'll see how the american public responds to

00:58:11.260 that let's spend a minute on nivaldi because i do this this one i it it matters to me uh i know i

00:58:17.640 heard you talk about your trip to moscow when you were young i of course went there and interviewed

00:58:21.740 vladimir putin um and putin you know he's been after nivaldi for some time now uh he was poisoned

00:58:28.340 a few years ago he was an opposition leader he's one of the few very very brave men to challenge putin

00:58:34.260 in russia and had quite a coalition of followers he was poisoned he went back to russia willingly

00:58:40.760 knowing that they were going to put him in prison which they did and now suddenly at age 47 he winds

00:58:46.260 up dead mysteriously sudden death syndrome like that's a thing for anybody who's not you know

00:58:53.500 weeks old and it seems obvious to everyone that putin was behind this and what does it tell us does

00:59:01.420 it give us any more information that we didn't have about vladimir putin well it confirms a lot of what

00:59:09.420 we think about vladimir putin it should serve as a reminder i don't think it gave us new information

00:59:17.200 per se but certainly he hasn't changed and the nature of the russian state under his dictatorship

00:59:25.260 has not changed the first thought i had megan was how blessed we are that whenever there is someone

00:59:35.540 like vladimir putin and there are a lot of them not in america but there are a lot of them in the world

00:59:41.460 we see these men and women step forward in every country these people they they come from somewhere

00:59:50.360 and they present themselves as an alternative even when they know that doing so will lead to their

01:00:01.980 people who are probably being killed or tortured or their family being hurt and nivalni was another

01:00:08.960 example of this a remarkable story and he was if those letters that were published or anything to go

01:00:16.380 by remarkably calm about it toward the end just before he was murdered and murdered is the right word

01:00:22.800 i've seen a little bit of debate over this i of course do not know what happened in that cell and i

01:00:27.020 wouldn't presume but even if he died of neglect even if it was his being in the cell for that long

01:00:37.380 that led to his death you still have to blame vladimir putin and the russian government for putting him

01:00:43.480 there in much the same way as you had to blame lenin or stalin if someone got shipped off to the gulag in

01:00:48.760 siberia and then froze to death had he not been there he would have been alive so whether or not he was

01:00:56.080 actively killed a few days ago or whether this was the indirect result of his having been put in that

01:01:03.240 jail for a long time and treated badly he was killed for his opposition and it is appalling and anyone in

01:01:10.940 the united states or elsewhere who wonders well maybe vladimir putin is not so bad needs to recognize

01:01:17.220 this that you know this is a tyranny and the the guy who stood up to putin was killed not incidentally

01:01:24.980 but because he stood up to putin and there are many examples of that kind of behavior i mean when i

01:01:31.920 interviewed putin in russia we talked seriously about having a plane on standby because he has been

01:01:37.500 known to kill journalists who get in the crosshairs of vladimir putin i mean this was an actual discussion

01:01:43.300 we had at nbc like how necessary is it and how upset might he get and so and so it's you know this

01:01:49.700 is what we're dealing with over there um there's no reason to have a love affair with vladimir putin just

01:01:54.160 because he's not woke um there is in the political world a story making headlines today from the

01:02:00.720 washington post they are upset that nikki haley went to an all-white high school

01:02:07.480 not all white but almost all white i think they've forgotten she's not white but they're very mad

01:02:15.620 that nikki haley left the school she went to quote for most of her childhood

01:02:20.340 where roughly half of her classmates were black she gets no credit for that you see

01:02:24.660 we only want to hang it around her neck like an albatross that she began her sophomore year of

01:02:30.480 high school in the fall of 86 20 miles to the north to a radically different environment orangeberg prep

01:02:37.880 at her new high school uh she was one of the only non-white students the horror and turns out that some

01:02:45.540 of the classmates said in interviews they were not adequately instructed about south carolina's

01:02:50.340 history of debate divisive racial issues from jim crow to the kkk to lynchings uh and then they point

01:02:58.520 out neither haley nor officials at orangeberg prep responded to questions from the washington post

01:03:03.060 thus it could not be determined what she was taught there so um what do you make of it charles she

01:03:10.740 didn't go to a high school that had enough brown faces even though she was one yeah that's the key

01:03:16.280 even though she was one this is a good example of the calvin ball that is played by the press when the

01:03:21.580 topic is race if nikki haley were a democrat the very fact that she had gone to an all-white school

01:03:31.480 as a non-white person would have been the story and it would have shown us something brave

01:03:39.620 and admirable about her that she managed despite being outnumbered and we would have sympathetic talk

01:03:50.400 about how she didn't look around and see anyone who looked like her there wasn't adequate representation

01:03:56.220 but she learned a great deal and became the woman that she now is likewise this idea that the school

01:04:05.980 didn't have good enough education about south carolina's history and that this in some way

01:04:14.220 works against nikki haley is weird i don't think that the paper knows what was taught at all

01:04:22.640 so i hope what was taught was that america is a wonderful nation that is based on the greatest creed

01:04:28.900 that has ever been written on parchment but that it is very often failed to live up to that and as a

01:04:34.740 result south carolina in particular was a hotbed of slavery and bigotry and discrimination until it

01:04:41.580 wasn't that's what i hope that they were taught but even if they weren't taught that that's not nikki

01:04:46.600 haley's fault how can that possibly be important to anyone and again if she were a democrat then it would

01:04:56.780 be well she did what she did despite this but somehow this is supposed to have i don't know

01:05:02.440 infected her and well listen to this exactly on point listen to this they say um her formative years

01:05:10.020 in orangeburg okay so sophomore junior in high school are a largely untold chapter in one of the

01:05:15.980 most complex and contentious parts of her journey from a minority woman in the south to the would-be

01:05:21.580 leader of a republican party that largely discounts systemic racism in the united states there it is

01:05:28.600 you know i just i do find this whole area very interesting i grew up as you know in england and i

01:05:34.960 was born in 1984 and when i was born england had a queen queen elizabeth ii and margaret thatcher who's

01:05:41.920 the prime minister and for a while i honestly didn't know whether men could be in positions of

01:05:48.000 authority because for most of my first few years i mean margaret thatcher spent six years as prime

01:05:54.480 minister after i was born until she was finally deposed there was the queen and then the prime

01:05:58.320 minister and and they were both women um and i had assumed that everyone left or right thought that

01:06:07.240 it was at least somewhat inspiring that margaret thatcher was the longest serving prime minister

01:06:13.020 in post-war british history but they don't now that doesn't count it's only some people and i see

01:06:20.700 the same thing at the moment with nikki haley in any other universe a non-white person who grew up in a

01:06:27.800 former confederate state in a all-white classroom and then became the governor of the state and helped

01:06:35.160 dismantle the old boy network would be praised for that that would be a story that was worth telling and

01:06:41.540 would be told but she's a republican and at the time of her governorship she was a tea party republican

01:06:47.200 as well so it's not it's not told and in fact we're now getting these push headlines from the

01:06:51.620 washington post that imply there's something nefarious about it it just it it bothers me because i don't

01:06:56.440 know what the rules are exactly right and and on that in that same vein clarence thomas gets a lot of

01:07:04.120 the same guff no no credit from the left for his amazing accomplishments everything he's done is seen

01:07:09.900 through their racial prism they've called him an uncle tom and so on and that brings me to john

01:07:14.700 oliver who what a funny guy made the following offer to supreme court justice clarence thomas watch

01:07:23.120 so that's the offer a million dollars a year clarence and a brand new condo on wheels and all

01:07:30.980 you have to do in return is sign the contract and get the fuck off the supreme court talk it over with

01:07:36.920 your totally best friend in the whole world because the clock starts now 30 days clarence let's do this

01:07:44.360 nice right now can you imagine if that were a white male republican comedian like a greg gutfeld

01:07:54.460 making such an offer to katanji brown jackson or sonia sotomayor that i don't think they'd be laughing

01:08:01.740 yeah so i have two thoughts about that and they're the same two thoughts i had when i first saw it

01:08:07.260 one that's not comedy i don't know what it is but it's just politics it's not a joke where's the joke

01:08:15.560 two he doesn't actually seem to know why he hates clarence thomas this seems to have been absorbed as

01:08:24.740 if by osmosis he just operates in this particular small clique within our culture and he knows somehow

01:08:33.560 that clarence thomas is bad he said oh clarence thomas has spent years making people's lives worse

01:08:41.020 he didn't say how is he upset with the affirmative action case which has 80 support in the public

01:08:48.960 is he upset with clarence thomas's second amendment and first amendment writings which reflect popular

01:08:54.980 positions what is it at the very least he could make an argument but but he he doesn't and i i i just

01:09:02.760 feel as if this is another good example of a completely unthinking late night television

01:09:10.300 that is supposed to be smart because at the end of it the guy delivering the monologue says the f word

01:09:17.200 and i i don't i just don't get it yep same um all right last thing before i let you go

01:09:24.420 the massachusetts school uh collegiate charter school of lowell decided to play in a basketball

01:09:34.560 game against the kip academy k-i-p-p academy and had to call the game early because not one not two but

01:09:42.600 three of their female players went down and got hurt thanks to a male player at the kip academy on the

01:09:50.820 other team who hurt them and this is a trans player a man pretending to be a woman to the point

01:09:58.760 where the coach saw repeated girls go down getting hurt and made the call to end the game early now

01:10:06.680 they say the players feared getting injured and not being able to complete in the payoffs of the

01:10:10.320 playoffs and now the school the collegiate charter school of lowell comes out to say we support our

01:10:15.040 coaches decision to call the game however they want us to know that they reiterate their values

01:10:22.320 of both inclusivity and safety for all students okay so and equity they mentioned equity too we we

01:10:30.500 want we like our state laws regarding equity and access and inclusivity so they want this to keep

01:10:35.620 happening and for the girls to just getting keep getting hurt and when i guess you have three to end

01:10:41.200 the game so the girls will not know the feeling of victory they will only know the feeling of injury

01:10:45.680 because equity and inclusivity is what's important to them and not safety which is the other word they

01:10:53.340 mentioned which is in direct conflict with those other two values i mean look this is a perfect example

01:11:00.540 of when ideology that at its inception is abstract and intellectual meets reality

01:11:11.160 when people started saying a few years ago in newspapers look men can become women and women

01:11:19.440 can become men and there are no real differences between the sexes and those who think otherwise

01:11:25.220 are bigots it was easy you just sit down in front of your computer and you type it out and then you

01:11:30.380 email it and then it goes up online the problem is it's not true and it is obviously not true when you

01:11:37.260 start playing sports according to that principle because men are on average stronger than women

01:11:42.900 someone is going to die we've now seen this in a bunch of sports we've seen this in lacrosse

01:11:51.540 we've seen it in soccer and we've seen it here in basketball in volleyball we're going to eventually

01:11:58.760 push this so far that someone is going to die and there is obviously a line i don't know where it is or

01:12:06.180 when it will happen beyond which we cannot put women in a game with men for example if you put women

01:12:12.980 into an nfl game they would die i i'm i'm waiting for this not with any hope whatsoever i'm waiting

01:12:21.100 for this watching through my fingers because it is so it is so stressful and bizarre but someone is

01:12:29.600 going to die and when it happens then the ideology is going to be exposed i think in a way that it

01:12:38.300 hasn't been before as as sheer lunacy and not just the indulgence of a rich society

01:12:44.000 so well said it's chilling but you're right and i watch these clips and all i can think is where are

01:12:51.700 parents what parent would allow his or her daughter to play against a six-foot male like that who's

01:12:58.820 clearly post-male puberty who clearly is a danger to their daughters is your desire to be seen as

01:13:04.900 inclusive and pro-equity greater than your desire to protect your child you're more worried about

01:13:12.160 taking barbs from your community members for not being woke than you are about your own daughter's

01:13:19.100 well-being something's wrong with your priorities i don't know i don't understand these parents

01:13:24.700 charles i don't know they need to be shamed and called out repeatedly because they are part of the

01:13:29.420 problem yeah and i you know i have a friend whose daughter is a superb athlete and i think about this

01:13:38.880 with her i mean i don't know if she'll go on and be a collegiate athlete but she is a fantastic

01:13:45.460 athlete within women's sports but obviously if you put a six foot three guy in he would he would

01:13:51.580 he would really hurt her and i don't actually personally know anyone who thinks that that isn't

01:13:57.640 true that's the other part of this it's like i don't know the parents you're talking about i don't

01:14:02.340 know the schools or the school boards or the coaches that we're discussing here i've i've actually

01:14:08.620 never met this is unusual because i i have lots of friends who are sort of left-leaning and i know so

01:14:13.520 many people who disagree with me on this or that or have completely different policies but on this

01:14:17.940 one i don't actually know anyone in my personal life who thinks it is a good idea to put men up

01:14:22.100 against women in these in these sports and i i i want to know where they come from like are they

01:14:27.460 bred in a laboratory well you know what's happened is quietly these trans activists have gotten the

01:14:32.800 laws changed in state after state to require this kind of thing and they're working on changing it

01:14:38.180 right now changing title nine and joe biden's going along with it um and so when people weren't

01:14:43.320 paying attention they made this basically mandatory and without activist parents to push back and say

01:14:50.060 we don't care what you did when we weren't paying attention during covid we're paying attention now

01:14:54.840 and we don't care that the law says you have to play our daughter doesn't have to play against you

01:15:00.360 and we will walk and the whole team will walk and all that will be standing there is a man

01:15:05.160 pretending to be a woman trying to exploit our daughter's opportunities and then see who's going

01:15:10.320 to enforce the law against us i just there has to be some pushback or we're going to be stuck with

01:15:16.520 this status quo and more and more women and young girls are going to get injured charles thank you

01:15:21.340 which is the other part of it that's the thing like i mean yeah yeah no but pick up on that point

01:15:28.740 one more time because i do think there's a value i wasn't a huge school athlete but i did play i played

01:15:33.860 on the basketball team and i played on the field hockey team i did mom even though you deny it i

01:15:37.920 showed her your book proof she's like you never played field hockey i did anyway and i i did

01:15:44.040 cheerleading which was competitive and it was fun but anyway there is a wonderful feeling of completion

01:15:49.800 and accomplishment when you win and it's yeah it's second to none you can't achieve it by coming in

01:15:56.180 second or third or you have to have the feeling of being number one in order to appreciate what that

01:16:01.540 feels like and what it does for your self-confidence and yes some ego all of it building a little

01:16:07.220 swagger into a young woman's or young man's step from wins in competition is a good thing and to take

01:16:14.780 that away from these young women just because we need to be equitable or inclusive of men men who have

01:16:20.660 all the advantages over women physically it's just grossly unfair and as we see here unsafe i'll give

01:16:25.740 you a last thought on it charles i i can't really improve on that as you say it's not just about

01:16:32.700 physical danger it's about taking away people's ability to do the best uh that they can and this

01:16:39.760 is what we saw with leah thomas the swimming um debacle it's not particularly dangerous to swim

01:16:47.060 against a man but if you are a woman it's quite difficult and there are people right now who should have

01:16:52.740 had uh gold trophies and should have been recorded for posterity as the best swimmer of their class

01:17:00.540 who are not because a man who was in his own realm what number 400th in the country decided that he

01:17:07.180 would enter their competitions and he started winning and that there's a cost to that it's not

01:17:11.540 just physical honestly if this if this came to my school i think i'd storm the court i really think

01:17:16.800 even if it weren't my child i'd i just run out there like a streaker you know you'll come with

01:17:23.640 me we'll do it together we'll give him something to look absolutely great to see you my friend

01:17:27.880 all right thanks for having me all right coming up next what a show today we've got our kelly's

01:17:33.380 core all-stars marcia clark and mark garagos and some big updates in some big cases including as i

01:17:39.940 mentioned at the top uh gabby petito's parents suing the parents of her boyfriend and murderer

01:17:46.520 and also uh one of the cases in that rusk on-set shooting involving alec baldwin

01:17:52.340 goes to trial jury selection today we'll tell you what's happening i'm megan kelly host of the megan

01:17:57.860 kelly show on sirius xm it's your home for open honest and provocative conversations with the most

01:18:04.340 interesting and important political legal and cultural figures today you can catch the megan

01:18:08.980 kelly show on triumph a sirius xm channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love

01:18:15.220 great people like dr laura plan back nancy grace dave ramsey and yours truly megan kelly you can

01:18:22.760 stream the megan kelly show on sirius xm at home or anywhere you are no car required i do it all the

01:18:29.300 time i love the sirius xm app it has ad-free music coverage of every major sport comedy talk podcast

01:18:37.040 subscribe now get your first three months for free go to sirius xm.com slash mkshow to subscribe

01:18:44.760 and get three months free that's sirius xm.com slash mkshow and get three months free offer details apply

01:18:53.940 now we turn to our kelly's court all-stars marcia clark is a former prosecutor and new york times

01:19:03.640 best-selling author and mark garagos is a trial lawyer and managing partner of garagos and garagos

01:19:09.400 welcome back marcia mark great to have you so let's start with what's happening in the gabby

01:19:14.880 petito case where she was this young woman who was we believe strangled to death by her boyfriend

01:19:21.920 brian laundry down they were from florida but they had traveled uh to various national parks in their

01:19:28.680 van promoted this all over social media as van life she was absolutely beautiful in every sense of

01:19:34.580 the word and notwithstanding the fact that they'd been stopped for a domestic violence incident in which

01:19:41.160 a witness saw him hitting her the cops let them go separated them briefly but not much was done

01:19:49.100 not blaming the cops i'm just giving the frame of reference and ultimately he killed her he killed her

01:19:56.280 in um grand teton national park in wyoming then he went home to florida in the van where his parents

01:20:05.560 lived and there was a period of time i can't remember it was a week or so where we didn't know

01:20:12.160 where gabby was what had happened to her her parents were saying we can't reach her we're very worried

01:20:16.920 about her and it is that period of time that has led to this lawsuit because turns out brian had spoken

01:20:27.020 to his parents had called them on the phone even prior to arriving back home is my understanding

01:20:32.480 and had clearly made some admissions to them and now gabby petito's parents the parents of the victim

01:20:39.400 are blaming brian landry's parents for not coming right out with it saying your son had told you

01:20:46.800 what he'd done to gabby you knew or had reason to know she was dead at that point you didn't come tell

01:20:53.040 us in fact you made public statements that seem to suggest the opposite and marcia it's an emotional

01:20:58.940 distress case right intentional infliction of emotional distress where the one set of parents

01:21:03.620 is going after the other set by the way i forgot to mention brian landry wound up dying by suicide he

01:21:08.560 took his own life with a gun in an alligator preserve or swamp down in florida so what do you make of this

01:21:16.120 case the tough one i think that it's possible that the um that the victims will prevail the plaintiffs

01:21:24.200 will prevail here on an emotional level um how much the jury votes in terms of damages is going

01:21:30.480 probably to be the more where the way they balance ultimately the equities in this case because bear in

01:21:37.300 mind that brian landry's parents are saying i didn't know he meant that he killed her she they they say that

01:21:44.580 he never came out and said such a thing at all that at most he said she's gone and then the mother comes

01:21:51.240 the closest to saying well you know i thought because he asked for a lawyer also in the context

01:21:55.780 of those conversations she thought well maybe he hit her uh maybe there was a domestic violence

01:22:00.600 situation and she took off and he's afraid he's going to get sued which is not unreasonable um i can

01:22:07.380 imagine a parent saying you know i can't believe my kid would do this he's not like this guy was

01:22:12.800 homicidal was in and out of prison has any kind of history so it's not unreasonable that they would

01:22:19.020 resist the conclusion that he killed her pretty extreme so i mean i think it does kind of hinge on

01:22:24.500 whether you believe them when they say we didn't know what he had done we didn't know she was dead

01:22:29.840 and i think they're going to get some degree of compassion from the jury on that regard but so is

01:22:35.040 the plaintiff saying you know you should have told us what you knew you should have been more

01:22:38.840 forthcoming but i think that probably they win on you know the emotional appeal um in terms of a

01:22:45.580 verdict um in terms of the su caused emotional distress and maybe you should have known remember

01:22:51.160 it's a preponderance standard not beyond a reasonable doubt so it's pretty low um and then i think they

01:22:56.800 balance it out in terms of the um monetary award among other things mark their lawyer the parents of

01:23:03.180 brian laundry his their lawyer came out and said on september 14th 2021 on behalf of the family is our

01:23:10.540 hope that the search for miss petito is successful and that miss petito is reunited with her family

01:23:17.080 and now what we're learning in these depositions the trial set for may is that the parents prior to

01:23:23.980 having their lawyer issue that statement had spoken to brian that brian had made repeated calls

01:23:29.480 including one that lasted an hour one that lasted 22 minutes saying she's gone as marsha points out

01:23:36.100 she's gone um i need a lawyer i might need a lawyer and the dad is trying to say and just help me just

01:23:44.020 help me and the dad is trying to say that he was very panicked brian was saying he didn't know what

01:23:49.880 to do and i didn't know what he meant by gabby's gone and i need a lawyer i mean okay so i don't know

01:23:58.420 if we believe that mark but i will say this does it does a parent have the obligation let's say he didn't

01:24:03.080 believe let's say he believed he was saying she's dead and i did something and i need a lawyer does a

01:24:08.500 parent have an obligation to come out with that you know to the victim's family i know it's interesting

01:24:15.060 because if if you were saying this to a spouse you would have a privilege if you were saying this

01:24:20.640 normally to a lawyer you would have privilege here you have kind of these statements that are

01:24:26.480 that can be taken two ways normally a judge i will tell you in california most judges would not let

01:24:34.020 this get to pass a summary judgment or what's called a demur normally this would be thrown out

01:24:40.300 here you've got a very emotional as marsha was kind of detailing you've got an emotional draw to this

01:24:47.420 but in most jurisdictions and with most judges they would say this is way too amorphous to attach

01:24:53.520 liability to and it can be interpreted in a number of ways and you don't have necessarily

01:24:59.500 a duty if you will to to tell them one way or another when you say we hope she's reunited with

01:25:06.920 the parents does that mean her remains or not her remains those kinds of factual issues i it's a it's a

01:25:13.120 very tough situation i think legally um it's not a tough situation emotionally i think if you get to in

01:25:21.200 front of a jury with a case like this uh you could probably prevail and get a jury to really hang

01:25:27.400 their hat on this and and come back with some incredible damages just because of the emotion

01:25:32.840 here and whole wanting you know jurors do have a a tendency like most people to want to hold somebody

01:25:39.840 accountable you don't have him anymore because he committed suicide you've got the parents there

01:25:45.000 you want to hold somebody accountable and i suppose it comes down to whether or not they are believed

01:25:51.680 as to what they knew and when they knew it i don't know marsha i have to say so they they already sued

01:25:57.140 the estate of brian landry the the killer and they got what's described as a symbolic three million dollar

01:26:04.660 judgment meaning he wasn't worth any money so they got this money but they're never going to collect

01:26:09.700 so now they could go to his parents to sue for emotional distress and while i have nothing but

01:26:16.900 empathy for the potatoes i can't help but feel like god forbid your own child called you and said

01:26:23.320 i'm in trouble i'm panicked i need a lawyer she's gone i don't think i i don't i i think i'd want to help

01:26:31.400 my child i think i'd i'd be scared i i just i don't i hate to say this you know and i'm god forbid but

01:26:37.820 like are we really going to make parents financially responsible for not turning in their kids or like

01:26:44.880 going to the cops with it or going to the victim's parents who they did know i get all that i don't

01:26:51.520 we're that's a slippery slope i agree um and the problem is for example let me just give you another

01:26:58.780 example of way how the parents could be held liable as if um they knew their son was violent

01:27:04.140 towards this woman they provide him with a gun and then you say okay wait a minute what do you think

01:27:09.200 happens next one plus one equals two but that's not the situation here this is a situation where

01:27:15.380 as i said before this kid has no prior had pardon me um the deceased had no prior record that we know

01:27:21.820 of of violence that yes there was a recent report of domestic violence between them that doesn't

01:27:27.140 necessarily mean uh that he when he calls to say she's gone and we had a fight or whatever

01:27:32.580 that he killed her and if you're a parent you're certainly going to resist that conclusion on a very

01:27:37.960 basic emotional level um having had nothing else to hang on to in terms of well he did it before so

01:27:43.920 i can see where he'd do it again not so in this case so yeah i can see the parents not wanting to

01:27:50.000 and i don't really know legally speaking and i think mark is right about this uh they probably would

01:27:55.540 not have gotten past a demur or a summary judgment motion in most courts uh with this claim because

01:28:01.680 you can't prove what the landrys knew what they understood from the cryptic remarks that he did make

01:28:07.060 and you have the other side of it which is what i was saying the emotional appeal goes both ways

01:28:12.100 and a parent is going to say i don't want to turn in my kid when i don't really know what happened

01:28:16.920 i'm going to go say arrest him for murder when i don't really have a confession at per se i think

01:28:23.020 and a natural reaction of a parent is to say i'll help you tell me what you need and that's what

01:28:27.800 they did do he said he needed a lawyer they got one um and they they didn't seem to be deliberately

01:28:33.780 hiding anything so much as unclear on exactly what was going on so it's a tough i think it's a very

01:28:40.080 tough case for a jury to sort through because of the dueling emotional appeals on both sides i know

01:28:47.000 because these parents of course you know i realized their son was a murderer but they loved him they

01:28:52.280 lost him too they have suffered it it wasn't their fault that brian committed this murder um

01:28:58.240 any more than it's the fault of any parent when there's child or something terrible i don't think

01:29:02.440 the whole case makes me uncomfortable i don't i don't see it i have to be honest i don't see a

01:29:05.900 liability for the for the laundry parents in in this case uh okay let's talk about rust uh that this

01:29:11.880 movie that alec baldwin was making when he shot cinematographer helena hutchins um he pointed the gun

01:29:19.100 he denies that he actually pulled the trigger he was shooting a scene he did not expect the gun to

01:29:23.620 be loaded i think we can give him all that but there's still a question about whether he was

01:29:27.960 criminally negligent in handling it and pointing it at her and we believe pressing the trigger though

01:29:33.380 he again denies that this is the trial of the armorer uh hannah gutierrez reed who she's gone first

01:29:40.760 now as a criminal defendant and it's underway today they're picking the jury and they're going to say

01:29:46.940 marcia that she had an obligation to make damn sure there were no live rounds on that set never

01:29:52.740 mind one in the gun next to the dummy rounds that was handed to baldwin so how do you like the chances

01:29:59.680 the prosecution has against her and how do you think this is going to affect baldwin who comes

01:30:04.520 second he comes after her right so that's really important disorder is going to make a big big difference

01:30:11.420 and it's a big score for alec baldwin he gets to see how the case plays out he gets to see how the

01:30:16.600 witnesses who are going to be some of the same witness is called in his trial how they play to

01:30:21.520 the jury where are the weak spots where are the strong spots those lawyers for alec baldwin i promise

01:30:26.420 you are going to be either in court or watching the footage if it is telecast avidly taking notes

01:30:34.120 constantly and consulting with each other about what to what to hit what points to miss what you know

01:30:39.860 exactly how to structure their case so they're getting to go to school on her on her trial now in

01:30:45.340 terms of how it plays out against her it depends on how her defense lawyers are able to show others

01:30:51.420 were involved others could have basically set her off for the fall by putting the live rounds without

01:30:58.040 her knowing about it on set or in the gun it seems unlikely that they would prevail this way because

01:31:04.160 she's the armor it is her ultimate duty to make sure that any firearms are properly maintained and kept

01:31:11.980 on set and so it would be her duty also to check and make sure that no live rounds are there so no

01:31:17.460 matter who might have slipped in live rounds and i don't believe anybody did it on purpose

01:31:20.880 um but you know by accident slipped in some live rounds uh and then of course it comes down to how

01:31:27.860 negligent was she in not catching that mistake uh what i wonder is why any live rounds were even

01:31:34.060 available because you don't need them uh if you think there's a big difference in the sound

01:31:39.100 then go put them don't ever bring them to set go shoot them somewhere else and see if you can

01:31:44.360 really detect the difference in terms of the recording capabilities but i don't see any reason

01:31:49.560 why any live rounds should be there so there are other people involved that's where the defense

01:31:53.880 for the armorer will go they stuck them in there and i didn't have a chance to look and by the way

01:31:59.180 she's gonna and she's also gonna suggest she's yeah she's gonna suggest that the guy uh seth kenny

01:32:04.620 who provided the rounds who was he was supposed to give her the ammo she can't she she's ultimately

01:32:10.460 responsible for the the guns and the ammo on set but somebody's got to supply them she says it was

01:32:14.720 this guy they're already pointing the finger at him but he hasn't been charged but the thing is mark

01:32:19.560 the prosecution i guess is going to start arguing that she was boozing quoting here from the new york

01:32:25.360 post and using marijuana and cocaine including the night before alec baldwin fatally shot hutchins

01:32:31.080 um the judge in the case in new mexico ruled that the special product is prosecutors can present text

01:32:36.660 messages in which she alluded to drug use during her time off the set uh but right around the time

01:32:43.600 of the shooting and even after the police interviewed her there's a suggestion that she gave a friend

01:32:49.820 a small white bag or bag with a white substance saying keep it safe just for hours after just hours

01:32:55.460 after she was questioned so they're going to try to paint her as you know drugged up irresponsible

01:32:59.920 there's an allegation she had live rounds in her hotel room um and you know the jury probably will

01:33:06.600 want someone to blame this is not like the laundry parents she actually did have some responsibility

01:33:11.040 for this gun yeah and you have somebody squarely who was supposed to be responsible i i your producer

01:33:18.860 sent me something that i did not know which was apparently the prosecution is also trying to not let her

01:33:24.840 use her own name or the name that she's now calling herself which i thought was interesting i i suspect

01:33:32.900 that if i'm um alex spyro or one of the quid emmanuel lawyers who's representing baldwin that you're going

01:33:40.720 to be doing mock juries after every single witness and see how they play out and who they want to blame

01:33:48.580 and what they're going to say i think that this is even better marsha will probably tell you normally

01:33:54.620 a prosecutor loves the second trial because it gives them the advantage they know exactly what

01:34:00.980 the defense is going to do in the first trial here you may flip it on its head this is something that

01:34:06.540 they welcome i mean they don't welcome obviously alex baldwin being indicted a second time but they

01:34:13.020 welcome the idea of getting a dry run seeing what people are going to testify to and watch and see

01:34:18.160 if she takes the stand because i think she's in a position where she may be kind of forced to do that

01:34:26.080 yes she i think she probably will take the stand i mean how else is she going to cast you know the

01:34:33.860 finger at everybody else because she's going to blame the guy who supplied the ammo and she's

01:34:39.660 definitely going to blame like the prop supplier um the person who oversaw the set and was supposed to

01:34:47.340 like manage everything on set and practice time and she's already saying that alec baldwin didn't

01:34:54.060 take the practice time with her seriously enough he was distracted he was on his phone the whole time

01:34:58.140 so i can see how this plays in a civil case right like you have to apportion responsibility

01:35:03.640 ivy armorer maybe i have 30 responsibility but deep pocket alec baldwin has the other 70

01:35:10.460 but in a criminal case i don't know that any of that matters does it matter if she can get up there

01:35:18.020 hannah gutierrez reed and say i might be a little responsible but the woman who maintained the set is

01:35:23.380 more responsible and the guy who supplied the ammo is more responsible like that does that work

01:35:26.940 mark in a criminal trial i will tell you first of all there's two there's two huge variables here

01:35:33.100 number one is jury selection uh and number two is do they put her on the stand as you indicated

01:35:39.920 she almost has to the one variable is how much does the prosecution bring in of her previous statement

01:35:47.640 that she made to the police they can put that in um and depending on how much of that they put in and

01:35:53.740 how much the defense gets to put in of other if she takes the stand if she's sympathetic if you picked

01:36:01.200 a jury that is attuned to that then she's got a shot the thing is marcia yeah go ahead well i have

01:36:09.340 to agree with mark i mean of course jury selection is where you win or lose uh any case but but i want

01:36:14.660 to point out one thing in terms of pointing the finger at others even though you don't apportion

01:36:18.740 guilt in a criminal phase you do have beyond a reasonable doubt as your standard to the extent you

01:36:23.760 can point fingers at others who may have been responsible for some of the the setup and the

01:36:29.320 situation she was in and the fact that she was rushed in production which she made a big point of

01:36:33.640 in some of her statements saying they were pushing me and pushing me to get things done quickly

01:36:37.500 and then alec baldwin wasn't paying attention and blah blah blah to the extent you can push off

01:36:42.240 responsibility on others that may create reasonable doubt in terms of what her actual negligence was

01:36:47.960 whether it was criminal negligence or not so yeah it does matter and of course the way she comes across

01:36:53.160 if she takes the stand let me suggest to you if i were her lawyer i wouldn't want her to

01:36:56.760 because she did make these prior statements that she did talk to the police anything she says that's

01:37:02.000 at variance with all those other statements can be used to impeach her and that will hurt her

01:37:06.820 credibility enormously so she can sit back at council table and put on the testimony of all the others on

01:37:13.000 set who will carry her water for her so to speak and say yes seth was responsible for this and x was

01:37:18.940 responsible for that y was responsible for that you chip away at the at the case that the prosecution

01:37:24.980 has to prove of her guilt beyond a reasonable doubt the thing about her father is weird apparently um

01:37:31.580 i think it's jack reed i can't remember his first name but he's one of the most famous if not the

01:37:36.400 most famous armorer in hollywood and he's her stepdad not her biological dad but she says she was

01:37:43.980 raised by the guy and now the prosecutors are saying she shouldn't be able to call herself

01:37:48.460 hannah gutierrez reed she should just have to stick with gutierrez because i don't know because what i

01:37:54.360 don't like because it's it's too prejudicial in terms of her competence i know it's craziness

01:38:00.300 that's crazy i'm sorry he is famous he is famous let me tell you i have a very dear friend who works

01:38:05.800 at prop house knows him well i knew him well and he's somebody who is revered in the business so it's

01:38:11.960 a big name don't get me wrong i know why the prosecutors want to keep it out others will testify

01:38:16.580 to how important a guy and how how iconic he is he is um but to say that she can't use the name

01:38:23.080 it's crazy that's like you know what one of our children not being able to use our last names

01:38:27.640 because it's like oh well no you can't say clark nobody will ever think you did anything wrong

01:38:31.740 garagos well they'll think the opposite they'd say garagos you can use garagos

01:38:36.940 by the way it's we're in new mexico we're not in hollywood it's not as if you're gonna

01:38:44.540 more dire the jury they're gonna say oh yeah jack reed i'm giving her a pass

01:38:48.380 it's so true all right i've got to get this last case in because we only have three minutes left but

01:38:53.140 i must ask you about the orgasm case it's a lighter moment for us here on the court so

01:39:00.460 gwyneth paltrow's orgasm guru i mean doesn't everyone have one of those

01:39:06.320 yes she they are in court there are two of them i guess who are in court and going on criminal trial

01:39:16.120 because they have been operating a quote sexual wellness empire called one taste that is

01:39:22.300 allegedly a cult forcing workers into sex and followers into debt now netflix did a whole film

01:39:31.280 on this and is also being sued by this pair here's a little bit from the trailer so the audience can

01:39:37.060 get a flavor of what we're looking at here we have a pleasure deficit disorder in this country

01:39:43.180 i think that there is a cure and that cure is female orgasm she really was a celebrity me i'd

01:39:51.520 seen her ted talk 30 times one taste was a fast-growing startup in the health and wellness and sexuality

01:39:58.000 space it was all about exploring orgasm exploring pleasure it went from utopia to a hellhole people

01:40:04.880 were getting hurt people were getting hurt badly ex-members would describe something that might look at

01:40:10.600 and think like oh you were being told to have sex with a customer in the hopes that that would pay

01:40:15.180 money to the company okay i don't mean to put the heart the cart before the horse here folks but

01:40:22.100 they say that by 2017 one taste was promoting coaching courses and retreats for up to sixty thousand

01:40:32.480 dollars a year thirty six thousand dollars for day don't she's one of the defendants nicole didone

01:40:39.880 personal teaching in stroking now if you pay thirty six thousand dollars for nicole didone to teach you

01:40:49.320 how to stroke isn't that a buyer beware assumption of the risk type situation how do you claim you've

01:40:55.520 been criminally defrauded mark would you like to take that one i will pair i will paraphrase richard

01:41:01.760 prior about cocaine it's god's way of telling you you got too much money there is there is to have a

01:41:08.720 pdo which is a pleasure deficit disorder i mean really that's where we're going no that's what

01:41:15.900 you need is a new boyfriend that's what you need

01:41:18.400 so what is this serious marcia i mean like forcing the employees to have sex i mean

01:41:26.700 can that even happen like there's also the option of quitting how does this turn into a criminal case

01:41:32.500 this is an excellent question megan i do not have an excellent answer because exactly the option is

01:41:39.440 there's a door you know how to open it walk outside you know i don't know i don't know what

01:41:45.160 they're going to say uh it'll be it's more like a civil case really um when you talk about it because

01:41:50.620 it's it's it's the employment discrimination and hostile work environment kind of stuff where

01:41:55.020 you say you know what i was pressured to have sex or i was going to lose my job okay i get that

01:41:59.200 that's a civil claim don't see how they're going to prove a criminal case about this at all um and

01:42:05.540 i do think that it is i think mark put it well yeah you do have too much money if you're spending

01:42:10.360 it on this who doesn't have a pleasure deficit disorder it's ridiculous they say they they boasted

01:42:16.960 that om their method was beyond tantra sexually sexuality in the post new age they offered

01:42:22.500 hands-on orgasm training courses for thousands of dollars you can get that at the little massage

01:42:28.400 parlors in times square for far cheaper it's you do not have to you do not have to pay 60 grand for

01:42:35.400 this you guys thank you we'll continue to follow that one we'll be we'll be we'll be sending you

01:42:40.980 out to the trial for day-to-day dispatches yeah we'll be right there front and center megan and

01:42:48.460 we'll be repeating your line that get a better boyfriend

01:42:51.060 see you team thank you for showing mark the greatest and thanks to all of you for joining

01:42:59.500 us today what a show tomorrow rootless maybe we'll ask them what they think about these lessons see you

01:43:05.140 then thanks for listening to the megan kelly show no bs no agenda and no fear

01:43:14.840 yeah

01:43:18.580 you

01:43:19.740 yeah

01:43:20.100 you

01:43:20.180 yeah

01:43:24.260 yeah

01:43:24.740 yeah

01:43:25.340 yeah

01:43:27.200 yeah

01:43:27.800 yeah

01:43:31.180 yeah

01:43:34.100 yeah

01:43:39.080 yeah

01:43:41.180 yeah

The Megyn Kelly Show - February 21, 2024

Did Fani Willis Lie on Stand, and Alec Baldwin's Trial, with Judge Joe Brown, Marcia Clark, Mark Geragos, and Charles Cooke ｜ Ep. 728

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript