The Megyn Kelly Show - Dire Consequences of Biden's Policies, and Fetterman-Oz Deep Dive, with Charles C.W. Cooke and Salena Zito

00:00:00.520 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.880 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.040 We are just about one month away, can you believe it, from the November midterms?

00:00:19.780 And later today we're going to take our first deep dive into the key races happening in one of the swing states that everybody's watching.

00:00:27.480 We're going to look at the Senate and gubernatorial races in Pennsylvania with Selena Zito, who knows the state better than just about anybody.

00:00:36.200 But we're going to start today with Charles Cook, Charles C.W. Cook, who had President Biden down in his state of Florida, his home state, yesterday to survey the hurricane damage with Governor Ron DeSantis.

00:00:47.480 And Mr. Biden used the opportunity to tell a local mayor that no one F's with a Biden.

00:00:53.680 What? Did you see this headline? Sort of weird.

00:00:57.060 Not sure what it's about. We're going to get into it, plus the latest on Herschel Walker and the Georgia Senate race and what may be ahead for gas prices in this country, among many other things.

00:01:07.400 Charles C.W. Cook is a senior writer at National Review and host of the brand new podcast called, conveniently, The Charles C.W. Cook Podcast.

00:01:17.900 Charles, great to have you back on the show. How are you doing?

00:01:25.500 I'm doing well. Thanks for having me.

00:01:27.660 I got to say, you're two episodes in it, and I like it even better than I liked Mad Dogs and Englishmen.

00:01:32.600 Oh, thank you. That's kind of you. And I'm glad you noted how creative the name I chose for the new podcast was.

00:01:38.780 I'm in a glass house on that one, Charles. I will not be ripping that.

00:01:42.300 It makes it very easy for people to find you, which is why it makes a lot of sense.

00:01:47.000 Exactly. Right.

00:01:48.760 So anyway, I love it all.

00:01:50.320 I am interested to say what you don't know is here on our show, Behind the Scenes, we make some fun of you.

00:01:57.220 We know we love you, but we make some fun of you on the Editor's Podcast because when Rich tosses to you to do the ads, they are a minimum of three minutes long.

00:02:06.020 Oh, are they?

00:02:06.480 I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I have to do a minute. I think that's in the contract, so I'm obviously going way over the top.

00:02:15.840 Yes. I think on your own podcast, you siphon, shorten just a little, just a tiny bit. I love our advertisers, but they're probably not paying for three minutes at Charles CW.

00:02:24.680 Okay. I want to start in a, not with news of the day, but with something I heard you talk about yesterday and we talked about on this show yesterday, too, because it's really irritating me.

00:02:34.680 And I could hear the irritation in your voice, too. And that is what happened to this NYU professor who got fired for making organic chemistry too hard, for making his class too hard, but only for 82 whiners, 82 out of 350, who apparently didn't like their grades, filed a petition against the guy saying he wasn't being cognizant enough of their feelings.

00:02:57.840 And in the tone that he was using and in the tone that he was using and that their grades really didn't reflect the effort that they'd put in.

00:03:03.680 To me, this is an absolute absurdity. And the university caved to these whiners, fired the professor, like the professor in organic chemistry, literally wrote the book on organic chemistry,

00:03:18.480 and took a knee to the whining mob. And I just think this portends many bad things. You know, we knew the campus craziness wasn't confined to campus anymore. But this isn't about being woke. This is about being weak.

00:03:33.660 Yeah, so there's a tendency, and I'm guilty of it myself to assume that the lunacy that we see in the arts can't really translate over to sciences, because you can't get away with it. Now, I'm happy to admit, and I have done when talking about this, I'm not good at organic chemistry. It's not my skill. I would fail this class. I was more of an arts guy. I was an English literature, history, politics sort of guy.

00:04:00.160 In English literature, history and politics, especially English literature, you can get away with a bit of sort of fluffy thinking. You know, maybe you could eloquent your way out of it. Maybe you can argue your way out of it.

00:04:12.340 But you can't do that when it comes to organic chemistry or engineering or physics or what you will. And I think for a while, I had sort of assumed that the locus of the craziness would therefore be the arts.

00:04:24.600 But what this piece in the New York Times shows us is that that isn't true. At least it's not true anymore. And I don't know quite why students are signing petitions against their professors in the first place.

00:04:39.880 Petitions really are a political tool. But I especially don't know why they're signing a petition against this professor. So this is a guy, he's 84 years old. He taught organic chemistry at NYU. It's a pretty good school. And as you said, he wrote the book. The book's called Organic Chemistry. It's in its fifth edition.

00:05:00.140 So it's not as if he wrote it. And then the entire industry said, this is full of nonsense. He wrote it. And then he wrote another one, another one, another one, another one kept updating it. He's extremely well regarded. He won all sorts of teaching awards. And his crime here seems to have been failing people who weren't good at organic chemistry. That's I wouldn't have been myself.

00:05:20.800 And that really matters. Because as the Times points out, the reason people are frustrated with him for failing them in organic chemistry, is because they want to go on to be doctors. And that's pretty important as a job. You know, if I disappeared tomorrow, Megan, it wouldn't particularly matter. There would still be people to write about politics and history and so on. Doctors, yeah, you've got to get that right. People don't wake up on the operating table if you don't. So he should be failing people.

00:05:50.800 And the question that is asked over and over in this New York Times piece that just made me wince was, how hard should organic chemistry really be? It should be as hard as it is, because otherwise, you know, people are going to die.

00:06:04.060 Right. That's the problem when this coddle culture seeps its way into medicine, into the military, into pilot training, right?

00:06:16.660 Like the messing of standards when it comes to our firemen, when it comes to our Navy SEALs, when it comes to, again, our pilots, which are now more worried about diversity than they are about just getting the best, most qualified candidates.

00:06:31.660 And now this is medicine. This is a precursor to medicine. Even lawyers, you can get away with having some lame ones.

00:06:39.260 But doctors, people actually could die. There should be absolutely no lowering of the standards.

00:06:44.740 And by the way, I understand it's the pandemic and all that. Too bad. Too bad.

00:06:48.680 Medicine itself is a test of who can do well in the most trying and stressful of circumstances.

00:06:53.940 Who do they think was saving lives during the pandemic? Doctors!

00:06:59.980 Right. And this is a misapplication of concepts.

00:07:05.320 So there is a role, although not half as much as the one we've carved out.

00:07:09.460 There is a role in history, in the arts, in politics, for a discussion of social constructs, for a discussion of our assumptions as a society.

00:07:22.320 It is true that the way we think about our history is conditioned by who's writing the books, who's in power.

00:07:29.980 It's true that we're all affected by what's around us, the families we came from, the places we grew up in, and that we're going to apply that when we're in the voting booth or we're arguing about what's right and wrong.

00:07:41.160 Now, again, I think it's gone far too far, and I think it's being filtered through some really quite horrible sort of racial and sexual immutable characteristics assumptions.

00:07:53.380 But there's some truth to that. There is no truth to that whatsoever when it comes to hard sciences.

00:07:59.240 There's no social construct that can change whether or not a bridge has structural integrity.

00:08:03.980 There's no social construct that can change whether or not the right medicine has been recommended.

00:08:09.940 There's no social construct that can change whether or not the airplane that's been built is going to fly or crash.

00:08:15.960 These are not presumptions that one can argue one's way in or out of.

00:08:21.440 Now, you mentioned lawyers. I mean, it's true.

00:08:23.640 You have to know the law, and the law is written down for a reason.

00:08:28.020 But there's a little wiggle room.

00:08:29.720 Even in those topics, you could get away with it.

00:08:31.760 You can't get away with it here.

00:08:33.420 And the idea that this is now being decided by petition, and that NYU caved when it saw this petition, I think is absolutely terrifying.

00:08:41.600 Because what it tells me is that there are people out there, and worse, there are people in positions of authority who have completely abandoned the idea of objective truth.

00:08:51.340 My takeaway yesterday was, do not go to a Gen Z doctor.

00:08:55.980 Stick with the Gen Xers, maybe an older millennial.

00:08:59.260 But do not go to a Gen Z doctor, because if the standards are getting lower to accommodate their feelings, your likely feeling, when cared for by that doctor, will be pain and possibly death.

00:09:12.120 It's just not an area in which we need to make these compromises.

00:09:15.860 So I have an old doctor, and I love him.

00:09:17.760 And he's amazing, and he gives it to me straight.

00:09:20.000 And it's very clear he's had a lot of his feelings hurt.

00:09:23.120 And now he's a crusty old bastard, just like I want him.

00:09:27.140 That's exactly what I want, my doctor.

00:09:29.680 All right.

00:09:30.460 Speaking of crusty old bastard, Joe Biden.

00:09:35.280 Thank you.

00:09:36.220 Thank you.

00:09:36.880 Enjoy the Clams Casino.

00:09:38.440 Joe Biden goes down to Florida.

00:09:40.120 And he gets caught on tape in this weird moment, talking to, I think it was a Democratic mayor of one of the cities down there.

00:09:48.840 And people sort of put their lip readers on it.

00:09:51.420 And everybody's determined that what he actually said in this following clip, it's very short, was no one F's with a Biden.

00:09:58.200 But he said the F word.

00:09:59.720 Here it is.

00:10:00.200 He says that last line was, you can't argue with your brothers outside the house.

00:10:23.240 What on earth?

00:10:24.520 I don't know what's happening there.

00:10:26.160 But to me, it's interesting he's, you know, engaging in a machismo moment.

00:10:31.420 He's trying to get his swagger on.

00:10:34.180 Says something about where he's been mentally for the past couple days or weeks.

00:10:39.160 That was honestly like a scene from a Martin Scorsese movie.

00:10:43.700 The big boss goes down to Florida and, you know, meets up with another of the families and wants to make himself clear.

00:10:50.360 It's very, very strange.

00:10:52.000 And look, the president's very, very strange.

00:10:56.160 But I think he's done a good job here.

00:10:59.080 And I think he should be praised for it.

00:11:01.780 You know, this has been a good moment for America.

00:11:04.120 And as a Floridian, I'm pleased by it.

00:11:06.640 The governor of Florida.

00:11:07.940 People are shocked by the fact that they've been working together so well, Biden and DeSantis.

00:11:13.100 Yeah.

00:11:14.040 You know, I've written a bunch about this because this has driven me crazy.

00:11:16.980 And in fact, I wonder whether it's annoyed Biden, because maybe that's what that clip's about.

00:11:23.500 Maybe he's trying to get back his sense of control.

00:11:25.880 But, you know, the way this has been covered in the press is really irritating to me.

00:11:31.700 We have political disagreements because we're a free country.

00:11:34.840 So people are going to disagree profoundly with each other on fundamental questions.

00:11:39.400 What should we do in the realm of war and peace?

00:11:43.380 How high should taxes be?

00:11:44.820 How much government spending should we have?

00:11:46.260 What balance should there be between the federal and state governments?

00:11:49.680 We're all going to disagree.

00:11:51.060 And we should.

00:11:51.820 But the idea that because people disagree, and in particular, because Governor DeSantis,

00:11:58.480 the governor of Florida, and President Biden, who's the executive within the federal government,

00:12:03.520 disagree on ideological matters, that they shouldn't work together on hurricane relief,

00:12:10.520 or that it's somehow hypocritical for them to work together on hurricane relief,

00:12:14.440 or that it's surprising for them to work together on hurricane relief, is really odd.

00:12:19.740 Because there is no great ideological difference in this country when it comes to hurricanes.

00:12:24.860 We're all pretty much opposed to hurricanes.

00:12:28.620 And we're all pretty much in agreement as to how we deal with them,

00:12:32.460 which also makes the analogy I've seen in some quarters with coronavirus moot.

00:12:37.440 We know what we want and need to do when a hurricane strikes.

00:12:41.380 There is a federal role, and there is a state role.

00:12:44.560 And a functioning system, a system that is not a banana republic,

00:12:48.660 is one in which people who disagree with one another profoundly on a whole bunch of moral and political questions

00:12:54.340 can work together.

00:12:55.660 And it's really nice that that's what we've seen.

00:12:58.560 I mean, to the extent that our politics have been put aside,

00:13:03.280 yesterday we had dogs and cats living together.

00:13:05.820 Joe Biden said that DeSantis had done a good job.

00:13:08.400 And Donald Trump said DeSantis had done a good job.

00:13:10.580 And I think DeSantis has said that Biden has done a good job,

00:13:14.800 and he's got everything he needed from the federal government, which is how it should be.

00:13:18.400 That's right.

00:13:18.920 You know, so there's this weird reporting where it's, wow, right up until the hurricane,

00:13:22.700 DeSantis was pretty critical of Biden.

00:13:24.520 Yeah, and I'm sure he will be afterwards as well.

00:13:26.540 It's just completely irrelevant to dealing with Hurricane Ian.

00:13:29.420 It's a natural disaster.

00:13:30.840 I mean, we've always come together in the wake of these and tried to put partisanship aside.

00:13:35.040 And then if somebody falls down on the job, like Bush after Katrina, there will be a pile-on.

00:13:40.960 But that didn't happen here.

00:13:42.500 So thankfully, the system's working as it was designed to work.

00:13:45.840 And so as I've watched that happen, the media has tried to blame Lee County on DeSantis a bit.

00:13:51.020 You didn't see it coming.

00:13:51.820 He's like, no one saw it coming.

00:13:52.980 The cone shifted.

00:13:54.600 You, the media, weren't there either.

00:13:57.080 But so as that fell apart, they've shifted to,

00:14:00.000 well, it's your own votes against climate change that made this happen.

00:14:05.780 Like, you put Florida in a worse position to battle all of this

00:14:08.920 because you voted against big dough that would have helped fight climate change.

00:14:13.860 And what they mean in particular is the Inflation Reduction Act,

00:14:16.860 the misnamed Inflation Reduction Act, and so on.

00:14:20.220 Here's the New York Times, all right?

00:14:22.480 October 4th, Florida's GOP leaders opposed climate aid.

00:14:26.700 Now they're depending on it.

00:14:28.360 All right, this is by Christopher Flavel and Jonathan Wiseman of the New York Times.

00:14:33.080 Hurricane Ian's wrath made clear that Florida faces some of the most severe

00:14:37.880 consequences of climate change anywhere in the country.

00:14:41.160 Oh, it did?

00:14:42.200 Oh, I'm sorry.

00:14:43.340 I thought I saw the head of NOAA saying that's not at all what it shows

00:14:47.340 and that there's been no increase in frequency or severity of hurricanes

00:14:51.340 as a result of climate change.

00:14:52.800 But the Times would like us to tell, like us to believe, as a matter of fact,

00:14:55.940 that the hurricane has made clear Florida faces some of the most severe consequences

00:15:00.100 of climate change anywhere in the country.

00:15:02.320 But the state's top elected leaders opposed the most significant climate legislation

00:15:06.920 to pass Congress, laws to help fortify states against and recover from climate disasters,

00:15:11.660 going on to talk about, as I mentioned, the so-called Inflation Reduction Act and others.

00:15:17.700 And then they hit DeSantis for blocking the state's pension fund from taking climate change

00:15:25.740 into account when making investment decisions, because DeSantis took the position that politics

00:15:31.980 should be absent from financial calculations.

00:15:35.460 So because DeSantis doesn't want woke ideology to be the basis for state investments,

00:15:42.580 he's getting hit as not in favor of climate change remedies.

00:15:48.680 And therefore, the pain and suffering is still his fault.

00:15:53.740 This is extremely sloppy thinking from start to finish.

00:15:57.660 I mean, even if you believe that the bills in question would have had a material effect on

00:16:03.320 the strength of hurricanes, which I think is a stretch, they wouldn't have done it that

00:16:07.540 quickly, would they?

00:16:09.240 And if you look at the way that these examples are set up, the one that's doing the rounds

00:16:16.540 at the moment is that Hurricane Ian is likely to be the most deadly to hit Florida since the

00:16:22.480 1930s, which should suggest that this is something that happens in this part of the country from

00:16:30.140 time to time and has done for thousands, hundreds of thousands of years, this is so petty.

00:16:40.340 It's petty and irrational.

00:16:43.220 The idea that Congress can micromanage the weather in this way is farcical.

00:16:53.140 And I don't think one has to be completely dismissive of the idea that there is some climate change,

00:16:58.420 and I'm just, and I'm not, to think that.

00:17:01.540 It is a misallocation of responsibility.

00:17:07.180 They're taking somebody who's been governor since 2018.

00:17:10.220 They're taking bills that, if they had any effect at all, would have a marginal effect

00:17:15.280 over a century.

00:17:17.340 And they're trying to draw a straight line.

00:17:20.000 The most annoying one of these I've seen is the claim that DeSantis bears some responsibility

00:17:25.860 for this hurricane because he voted against a climate bill when he was in Congress.

00:17:34.100 Well, after hurricane, after Superstorm Sandy in New York.

00:17:38.340 Right.

00:17:39.100 That bill was full of an extraordinary amount of pork.

00:17:45.720 It was a bad bill.

00:17:47.220 And I don't think that it is incumbent upon members of Congress to suck that up each and

00:17:55.880 every time it's put in front of them.

00:17:58.160 I don't think it is reasonable, and this is unfortunately a tendency we're increasingly

00:18:02.380 seeing in our politics, to put worthwhile, valuable items inside another bill that is broadly

00:18:10.780 opposed, and then to say, because you voted against the overall package, you therefore

00:18:16.220 must have disdained everything that was within it.

00:18:18.960 But that's what's happening here.

00:18:20.560 I think that's a game.

00:18:21.680 I think it's a cynical game, and I wish people would stop playing it.

00:18:24.960 For the record, Michael Schellenberger tweeted this out the other day, citing NOAA.

00:18:30.220 The New York Times says climate change is making storms like Hurricane Ian more destructive.

00:18:35.320 Going back to the article I just read, and it's been positing that for days now.

00:18:39.480 He writes, but that's false.

00:18:42.220 There have been 15 Cat 4 or stronger hurricanes that have made landfall in Florida since 1919.

00:18:49.740 All right, 15 Cat 4 or stronger since 1919.

00:18:53.320 10 occurred before 1960, just five since then.

00:18:58.320 But you wouldn't know it if you were to read the New York Times blaming all of this on man-made

00:19:02.740 climate change and pinning the blame on Republicans like DeSantis for not doing more to get solar

00:19:08.340 panels and so on into place to fight it.

00:19:12.000 OK, the other big story in the news right now is the midterms.

00:19:15.900 We're less than a month away, as I pointed out.

00:19:17.900 And things appear to be tightening again, this time in the Republicans' favor.

00:19:21.680 In June, they were running away with it.

00:19:23.360 Over the course of the summer, it got a lot tighter to the benefit of the Democrats.

00:19:26.740 And now things are starting to look better for the Republicans again.

00:19:32.000 There is a CNN, actually, CNN Politics article talking about how Republicans hold a near historic

00:19:39.020 lead on a key midterm indicator.

00:19:41.580 And they're citing Gallup.

00:19:43.180 All right, so Gallup has for decades put the question to voters, what issue is most important

00:19:49.820 to you?

00:19:50.660 And then they say, which party can better handle that issue?

00:19:53.940 Well, an overwhelming majority said it's the economy, not surprisingly.

00:19:59.100 And 48% say the Republican Party is best equipped to handle it.

00:20:03.060 Only 37% believe it's the Democratic Party.

00:20:05.720 That 11-point Republican edge is one of the best Republicans have ever had.

00:20:10.080 This is, again, from the CNN article.

00:20:11.560 Looking at 20 midterm elections since 1946, when this question was asked, only once has the

00:20:17.840 Geo Party had a larger advantage on this question, and that was in 1946, when they had a 17-point

00:20:24.840 lead.

00:20:25.240 Okay, it's 11 points now.

00:20:26.420 17-point lead back then on the Democrats.

00:20:28.160 When they had the 17-point lead on this question, they saw a net gain of 55 House seats in 1946.

00:20:34.200 So it's just a long, sort of convoluted, but interesting look at how they're leading on

00:20:39.400 things like this.

00:20:40.020 Of course, direction of the country.

00:20:41.220 They're leading on economy, inflation.

00:20:42.700 And they're leading on.

00:20:43.380 These things matter.

00:20:44.880 And we're about a month out, so it matters more right now than it has.

00:20:50.140 Yeah.

00:20:50.440 And to put that number you just read into context, you say 1946.

00:20:54.960 Yeah.

00:20:55.600 So that was after the Democrats had been in charge of Washington, D.C. for 16 years.

00:21:04.560 The 1929 crash happens, and then there is an immediate backlash against the Republican

00:21:09.880 Party, which starts in 1930 in the midterms.

00:21:12.160 And 1932, you get the election of Franklin Roosevelt, massive super majorities in 1936.

00:21:20.560 So by 1946, you would expect a backlash on that scale.

00:21:24.940 But Joe Biden's been in office for less than two years, and his party have been in control

00:21:30.140 of Congress for nearly four years in the House and two in the Senate.

00:21:35.600 So that's a really dramatic number.

00:21:37.080 I think there was a profound overcorrection in the last few months when imagining what's

00:21:44.800 going to happen in November.

00:21:46.220 I do think that the Dobbs decision probably had some effect.

00:21:49.640 That effect was primarily to bring Democrats who had been disaffected by the economic situation

00:22:00.060 back into the fold.

00:22:01.880 But I don't think that the decision that the Supreme Court arrived at has alienated swing

00:22:10.080 voters in quite the way that it was supposed to have.

00:22:13.200 And I thought also over the summer that people were a little premature because we weren't really

00:22:19.500 in a political cycle yet.

00:22:21.680 That the ads hadn't started in earnest.

00:22:25.240 You know, I mean, I do because I work in this.

00:22:27.220 You do.

00:22:27.620 You work in this area.

00:22:28.740 But most people are not in the middle of August saying, what about those midterms?

00:22:33.400 They tend to turn on late September, October.

00:22:36.880 So it was always going to shift back a little bit.

00:22:40.080 And it has.

00:22:41.620 And the truth is that the fundamentals here are just not good for the Democratic Party.

00:22:48.020 They have unified control of Washington, D.C., and they have had that control at the same

00:22:55.520 time as we've seen two quarters of contraction, whether that's a recession or not, we can argue

00:23:00.400 about inflation at its highest level since 1980.

00:23:05.720 And then all of the things that result from high inflation, the consequences of trying to

00:23:09.880 fight high inflation, which tend to be the contraction of the economy and high interest

00:23:14.880 rates, which in turn lead to high mortgage rates and, you know, high car payment rates

00:23:21.240 and so on.

00:23:22.340 And general grumpiness amongst the electorate.

00:23:25.020 Right, right.

00:23:25.820 Oh, and high gas prices, I should say, as well.

00:23:28.040 And Joe Biden and his party have just not signaled that they're serious about fighting this.

00:23:33.260 It is not all their fault.

00:23:34.860 Some of it really is their fault because they just spent so much money and they sent out so

00:23:39.000 many checks.

00:23:39.660 But not all of it is their fault.

00:23:41.280 But they haven't been serious about fighting it.

00:23:43.740 They said it wasn't going to happen.

00:23:45.420 Then they said it would go away quickly.

00:23:47.180 Then when it didn't go away quickly, they said maybe we should do Build Back Better and

00:23:50.540 add another three to six trillion dollars to it.

00:23:53.200 Then when they realized that that wasn't going to happen, they kept looking at ways to spend

00:23:57.220 money.

00:23:58.040 Then they passed a bill called the Inflation Reduction Act that had absolutely nothing to

00:24:02.340 do with inflation and that everybody knew had nothing to do with inflation.

00:24:06.240 And now they're coming into October when it's far too late for Congress to do anything and

00:24:11.980 far too late for the president to do anything.

00:24:13.820 And the last thing he did, by the way, was unilaterally and illegally spend up to a trillion

00:24:19.300 dollars on college students, which is inflationary.

00:24:22.780 And they're wondering why the message, hey, the economy is starting to turn around, isn't

00:24:27.920 resonating with people.

00:24:29.020 And the reason for that is very simple, because the economy is not starting to turn around.

00:24:32.960 There's no victory lap to take because there's no victory.

00:24:35.620 And the numbers that we're seeing for Congress are reflecting that.

00:24:39.840 We the news just gets worse and worse by the day for them economically.

00:24:44.060 And the Fed's doing what it should do.

00:24:46.020 But it was very late to this party to try to get control over the amount of money circulating

00:24:50.660 in our economy.

00:24:52.420 So people are feeling that pain, but they're feeling it at the gas pump again.

00:24:57.000 One year ago, the price of gas was three point two.

00:24:59.860 Now it's up to, I think, three point eighty seven.

00:25:02.260 As of today, I just took a look just because I know it was obviously lower under Trump when

00:25:07.320 Trump left office in January twenty twenty one.

00:25:10.400 It was two dollars and forty cents a gallon.

00:25:12.360 I mean, just think about that.

00:25:13.260 You don't you don't need an economist to walk you through that.

00:25:16.020 You're already feeling it when you go and fill up your tank.

00:25:19.160 So we're at almost back, you know, pretty close to four dollars a gallon again.

00:25:23.220 And this, as I haven't heard you guys talk about this yet, but the OPEC embarrassment

00:25:28.540 after we went on bended knee back to the Saudis after we were going to make pariahs out of

00:25:34.300 them.

00:25:34.600 And instead, we did a fist bump.

00:25:36.180 Right.

00:25:36.780 Joe Biden goes there saying, I'm going to I got this goes and does a fist bump to try

00:25:40.780 to help get out oil from the Saudis.

00:25:42.860 We have plenty here at home.

00:25:44.900 And so we humbled ourselves in front of the so-called pariahs and got absolutely nothing.

00:25:49.980 All right.

00:25:50.180 They wouldn't even take Biden's call.

00:25:51.800 So then finally they have a fist bump moment.

00:25:54.300 Biden comes back acting like some sort of a victor.

00:25:56.380 And now we get the answer, which is not only are we not going to produce more, we're going

00:26:00.660 to pull a couple million barrels from the current supply.

00:26:05.260 And Joe Biden saying, OK, maybe we'll just go to the Strategic Petroleum Reserve here in

00:26:09.900 the United States.

00:26:10.340 OK, but the point is, we have absolutely no heft internationally when it comes to our

00:26:16.160 bargaining power.

00:26:16.920 We've embarrassed ourselves.

00:26:18.440 We have high gas prices and we're actually looking at a winter where they're now saying

00:26:22.400 it's going to be way more expensive to heat your home than it's been.

00:26:25.580 There's already been a 300 percent uptick.

00:26:27.880 Sorry, $300 uptick just from the 2021 winter.

00:26:32.880 And it's expected to be $300 or more expensive this winter.

00:26:37.580 What do you make of all that?

00:26:38.320 Well, we don't have to be in this position.

00:26:41.140 And again, some of this was inevitable and is not Joe Biden's fault.

00:26:44.640 It's the product of our coming out of COVID, all of the supply chain issues that we saw.

00:26:49.240 It's quite difficult just to turn on energy production overnight and the increase in demand

00:26:54.280 as it interacts with supply pushing up the price.

00:26:56.960 But even if you accept that, which I do, you can judge the president on how he has responded

00:27:04.160 to it.

00:27:05.180 And he and his party are just not interested in taking advantage of the great blessings

00:27:10.440 that the United States has with its natural resources.

00:27:14.440 I mean, we have not taken advantage of the resources themselves.

00:27:18.860 That's getting them out of the ground.

00:27:20.340 And we haven't taken advantage of our ability to build refining capacity.

00:27:25.620 A lot of the oil that we're pulling out of the ground in the United States, we're actually

00:27:29.720 having to send to other places to refine.

00:27:32.920 Now, that's a choice.

00:27:34.200 It's a short-term choice and a long-term choice.

00:27:37.000 We do not need to be using the strategic petroleum reserves, not what it's for, to try to lower

00:27:42.860 gas prices.

00:27:43.620 We do not need to be going on bended knee to the Saudis or now to the Venezuelans.

00:27:48.120 We don't need to be asking OPEC to help.

00:27:51.080 In fact, if there's one thing we should have learned from the last 50 years, it's not to

00:27:54.720 rely on OPEC after what happened in the 1970s.

00:27:58.580 If we were an island nation with very few natural resources, then our calculation would be different.

00:28:07.160 But we're not.

00:28:07.980 We're an enormous, blessed continental nation that can, if it wants to be, be energy independent,

00:28:15.040 fully energy independent.

00:28:16.640 We can pull out of the ground enough oil and refine it to keep cars going.

00:28:22.020 And this is a slightly separate topic, but we can create enough domestic energy, including

00:28:28.440 nuclear, if we had the will, to never have to ask Saudi Arabia for help ever again.

00:28:34.240 And what I think this has shown is that whatever one's view is on the question of energy and

00:28:42.160 climate and the conservation of land, it is now abundantly clear, if it wasn't already,

00:28:48.740 that the American public is not going to agree to go back in time or to forswear the industrial

00:28:56.120 revolution.

00:28:57.300 People like their modern comforts.

00:29:00.260 Much of them, that is necessary.

00:29:02.620 Air conditioning is not optional.

00:29:04.020 Heating is not optional.

00:29:05.280 But the demand for gasoline and for other energy is not going to go down.

00:29:11.320 So we're going to have to get it from somewhere.

00:29:14.020 And it should be the United States.

00:29:16.460 It seems absolutely crazy to me that we're in this position.

00:29:20.000 And much of that, again, in the short term and in the long term, is a choice.

00:29:24.040 And it's it's made at the very top.

00:29:27.280 We were talking the other day about what consequence does the election of the president

00:29:32.880 have?

00:29:33.680 If you could have divided government, is gridlock enough to change to stop the Democrat big

00:29:41.080 government agenda?

00:29:42.100 And, you know, this is a good example of how you might not be enough.

00:29:47.500 It's better than what we have right now, which is just far left spending and policies

00:29:52.080 being implemented at every level.

00:29:53.980 But, you know, whether we tap into our energy reserves, whether we spur big business in the

00:30:00.440 energy industry into doing more and drilling domestically and so on, that really is an executive

00:30:05.740 level decision.

00:30:06.840 So there's some things that would have to be undone before we could vote for gridlock.

00:30:11.540 Charles, you're staying with us.

00:30:13.000 Don't go anywhere.

00:30:13.700 We'll be right back.

00:30:22.060 Charles, you've been busy, clearly, maybe not as busy as Joe Biden, who not only had to

00:30:27.220 deal with the aftermath of Hurricane Ian, but you may not know, spent some time with getting

00:30:33.300 in touch with his Puerto Rican roots.

00:30:35.560 No.

00:30:36.840 I don't know if you saw this, but I love this story.

00:30:41.900 Not long after claiming that he actually visited the Tree of Life synagogue after the horrific

00:30:48.000 attack there that killed 11 people in 2018, when he said, I went there and I visited and

00:30:52.620 spent time and then they came out and said, no, you didn't.

00:30:56.260 You never came here.

00:30:57.520 He said, oh, I had a phone call.

00:30:59.760 OK, so that happened.

00:31:01.580 A couple of years later, here he is saying he was he's basically raised by Puerto Ricans,

00:31:05.160 Delaware, which is less than one percent Puerto Rican, his home state, that he was raised

00:31:11.520 by Puerto Ricans in Delaware.

00:31:12.780 That's really what Delaware is all about.

00:31:14.780 And there's a montage that I don't know who put it together, but it's brilliant of some

00:31:21.760 of Biden's gaffes along these lines, because it wasn't just these two examples.

00:31:26.040 We'll play it for you.

00:31:27.320 Watch your thought for.

00:31:28.100 I got raised in the black church.

00:31:32.280 He knows I'm not kidding.

00:31:33.460 I got my education for real in the black church.

00:31:37.720 And that's not hyperbole.

00:31:39.220 It's a fact.

00:31:40.460 I probably went to school more than many of you did.

00:31:47.540 You all think I'm kidding.

00:31:48.960 You can tell you, I was sort of raised in the Puerto Rican community at home politically.

00:31:57.700 Oh, my God.

00:31:58.560 I mean, it just goes on.

00:31:59.680 It just shows he's such a panderer and, of course, liar.

00:32:05.620 He's always been like this, though.

00:32:08.220 If you go back to the first time he ran for president in the 80s, this is what he's always

00:32:13.740 done.

00:32:14.260 And he has these stories about his father that are really, really unconvincing.

00:32:22.460 Apparently, his father always said to him at the foot of his bed exactly what he would

00:32:27.040 need in the future to be able to tell an audience his father said to him.

00:32:32.320 Apparently, his father was the most forward-looking man in the history of the United States as well,

00:32:36.880 you know, in Scranton.

00:32:38.480 And everything that is currently fashionable, his father was into in 1952.

00:32:45.260 This is who Joe Biden is.

00:32:48.940 It's who Joe Biden has always been.

00:32:50.920 He's always had a very casual relationship with the truth.

00:32:54.200 And it's one of the things, I think, that has made the tendency of people who didn't want

00:33:00.520 to vote for Donald Trump, which I absolutely understand, to turn Biden into a hero rather

00:33:07.240 than an alternative.

00:33:08.840 So baffling to me.

00:33:11.060 I comprehend why people said, I'm voting for Biden, not Trump.

00:33:15.660 I get it.

00:33:16.720 I don't understand why people who did that feel the need to pretend or insist that Joe Biden

00:33:24.460 is a good, upstanding person, because he's not.

00:33:27.860 He's always been a fabricator.

00:33:30.240 Before Joe Biden ran for president, and I'll be honest, before I ever thought he would be

00:33:35.940 president, when he was vice president, I wrote a piece at National Review comparing him to

00:33:40.800 Prince Philip in Britain, because he always seemed to have a gaffe.

00:33:44.460 Now, he doesn't have the charm that Prince Philip had.

00:33:46.820 But Prince Philip was absolutely notorious for saying things that were, let's say, politically

00:33:53.160 incorrect, that were likely to make the people in the room feel uncomfortable, that you would

00:34:01.880 probably more associate with somebody in the 1950s than in the modern era.

00:34:06.820 And Joe Biden is that guy.

00:34:09.420 This is a guy who told a black man a few years ago, you know, if you don't vote for me,

00:34:16.780 you ain't black.

00:34:18.080 This is not a smooth man.

00:34:21.640 And this is who he is.

00:34:23.300 He sees an audience, and he really wants to convince that audience that he is more like

00:34:29.880 them than they are.

00:34:31.840 And so he'll just have whatever it takes, whatever it takes, he'll say it.

00:34:36.160 And, you know, sometimes it's funny, but sometimes it's actually quite sinister.

00:34:39.800 The clips that you played were funny in their own way.

00:34:42.500 What he said about Mitt Romney wanting to put the audience back in chains was really

00:34:48.440 very sinister and I think was a turning point in our politics.

00:34:51.680 Not to mention the Dark Brandon speech that we were all just subjected to.

00:34:55.720 And then he goes out and he denies that he said any of the things the very next day, once

00:34:59.780 again, like the inflation and the economy story, asking us not to believe our lying eyes.

00:35:03.960 Now, it must be said on the other side from the election in 2020 and possibly in the election

00:35:09.920 in 2024, we have Donald Trump, OK, who rather than sort of taking the high road and giving

00:35:16.800 the country an alternative to hold on to.

00:35:20.100 And I mentioned the two dollars and 40 cents gas prices.

00:35:23.020 OK, I get that.

00:35:23.820 But sends out one of the just the most insane tweets, even by Trump standards the other day

00:35:31.380 that I know it's not a tweet.

00:35:33.680 It's on his truth social network.

00:35:36.280 I don't know what's going on here, Charles, but I know it caught your attention, too.

00:35:40.240 And I genuinely don't understand what Trump is doing with this.

00:35:43.360 I know he doesn't like Mitch McConnell, but this seemed to come out of left field.

00:35:46.920 And this is what he wrote is McConnell approving all of these trillions of dollars worth of

00:35:52.660 Democrat sponsored bills without even the slightest bit of negotiation because he hates

00:35:56.900 Donald J. Trump and he knows I am strongly opposed to them.

00:36:00.180 Or is he doing it because he believes in the fake and highly destructive Green New Deal and

00:36:04.540 is willing to take the country down with him?

00:36:07.100 In any event, either reason is unacceptable.

00:36:09.900 He has a in all caps death wish must immediately seek help and advice from his China loving

00:36:18.360 wife, Coco Chow.

00:36:20.800 Most of us didn't believe this was real.

00:36:23.280 I even knowing Trump tweets or truth show, whatever troops, extraordinary things that I

00:36:30.060 didn't think this was real.

00:36:30.940 It's real.

00:36:31.700 That actually came from him.

00:36:33.040 I don't know what he's doing.

00:36:34.680 And I wonder I know it's factually not correct either.

00:36:37.340 But what do you what is he doing?

00:36:38.900 I mean, where to start?

00:36:42.520 It's grotesque.

00:36:44.780 It's grotesque.

00:36:46.300 It's not true.

00:36:48.680 That is not true of Senator McConnell.

00:36:53.720 McConnell was instrumental to the Trump presidency.

00:36:59.680 Without McConnell, Trump wouldn't have got most of the things he got done.

00:37:03.380 McConnell is not and has not been passing trillions of dollars of Democratic spending to annoy Donald

00:37:13.360 Trump, who is a private citizen.

00:37:15.860 And then when we get to the end with the racial slur, and this is not only a woman who served

00:37:23.840 in Trump's own cabinet, it's Mitch McConnell's wife, and what he said about her, it's just gross.

00:37:33.700 So you ask, what's he doing?

00:37:36.060 I think Republican voters, including Republican voters who really like Trump, ought to ask

00:37:43.720 themselves exactly the question that you just asked.

00:37:47.160 There's a temptation to say, well, I don't care about mean tweets.

00:37:53.240 But mean tweets are the symptom here.

00:37:57.300 They're not the disease.

00:37:58.960 The disease is a total lack of control, self-control exhibited by Trump.

00:38:05.360 And also a total lack of care, it seems, or interest in moving the ball forward.

00:38:12.700 So the question I've been asking people is, let's strip that truth of its moral failings.

00:38:23.960 Let's just ignore for a second what he said about Alain Chow, and let's ignore that it contains

00:38:30.480 a lie.

00:38:31.940 What did it do for you?

00:38:34.380 What did it do to advance the ball?

00:38:37.320 Let's look at it amorally.

00:38:39.560 Forget me.

00:38:40.100 Forget that I find it abhorrent, and I think less of Trump for it.

00:38:45.100 Let's just look at it from the perspective of somebody who is worried about the direction

00:38:49.680 of the country and wants it to approve.

00:38:52.140 What did that do?

00:38:54.020 It diminished the man who will probably be the next Senate majority leader.

00:38:59.520 It told Asian Americans that they are unwelcome.

00:39:05.240 It told voters that Republicans are unserious and spend money that they have not, in fact,

00:39:12.780 spent, most of which that they've blocked when they could.

00:39:16.760 And it did what?

00:39:18.760 Did it repeal Obamacare?

00:39:21.540 Did it change the nature of the judiciary?

00:39:24.400 Did it fix the southern border?

00:39:26.920 Did it end the opioid crisis?

00:39:29.200 Did it improve our economy?

00:39:30.640 Did it lower gas prices?

00:39:32.240 Did it help inflation?

00:39:33.860 No.

00:39:34.800 It did absolutely nothing.

00:39:36.680 And I've just been struck by the side-by-sides.

00:39:39.760 I have seen, on the one hand, that truth.

00:39:44.260 And on the other hand, the images of my governor running around the state, giving 11 press conferences

00:39:50.540 a day, getting bridges fixed, and generally exhibiting competence and care of Governor Abbott in Texas

00:39:58.280 on the southern border.

00:40:01.420 I don't know how we can look at this as a movement and say, yes, that's what we need.

00:40:10.840 We're not talking here about somebody who has been nominated for the presidency.

00:40:16.220 We're not comparing, or shouldn't be comparing that, to Joe Biden.

00:40:21.740 We're comparing that to basically everyone in the country.

00:40:26.040 And it should factor in to the decision that conservatives make when 2024 rolls around.

00:40:33.660 Because what Donald Trump, in my view, is saying is,

00:40:37.060 I'm not focused on what matters, and I'm not serious.

00:40:39.980 It's just, it's like, with the Republicans being dismissed as an entire group of racists

00:40:47.940 and bigots, and I think that reasonably taking umbrage at that, how does this reflect on them,

00:40:57.440 on the Trump lovers who don't have this in their heart, who would never say China-loving

00:41:01.420 wife Coco Chow about Elaine Chow, who served this country and Trump's administration faithfully?

00:41:06.340 And by the way, we would not have a Justice Gorsuch if it weren't for Mitch McConnell.

00:41:10.760 Forget the other two, who he helped shepherd through, but we really wouldn't have Gorsuch

00:41:14.120 if it weren't for Mitch McConnell.

00:41:15.740 So it's like, yes, he's opposed Trump.

00:41:17.340 He's been critical of Trump on the election claims and didn't support the January 6th stuff.

00:41:21.640 That seems to me where he really broke from him.

00:41:24.980 He can't let it go.

00:41:28.440 And he continues to say things like this that will only undermine his own chances,

00:41:33.540 the chance of any Republican running for office from this point forward.

00:41:36.960 You know, if I'm a Democrat media person, I'm bringing this up at the Senate race that

00:41:43.700 I'm having between Oz and Fetterman.

00:41:45.180 I'm saying, what's your response to this, Mehmet Oz?

00:41:47.520 He said this.

00:41:48.320 Do you stand behind that?

00:41:49.080 I'm going to ask it of every Republican.

00:41:51.660 And so, like, it's not helpful to himself or to the Republican Party or to any Republican

00:41:55.740 running for office.

00:41:56.740 And it shouldn't be defended, even by the most ardent Trump lovers.

00:41:59.980 And also, is that the person you want to be president when you have a choice?

00:42:05.900 I mean, again, I understand binary choices.

00:42:08.100 As I said, I understand the people who said, I don't want to vote for Trump.

00:42:11.920 Therefore, I'm going for Biden.

00:42:13.020 I also understand the people who said, no, I'm voting for Trump because Biden's wrong

00:42:17.720 about this, that and the other.

00:42:18.900 And, you know, he's pro-choice and he's against more energy production and all of the stuff

00:42:24.720 we've been talking about.

00:42:25.800 I understand that.

00:42:26.900 But at the moment, Donald Trump is a private citizen.

00:42:29.520 In fact, all he has at the moment is mean tweets.

00:42:33.240 What is it about that that could make anyone say, that's the guy?

00:42:37.900 That's the guy for 2024.

00:42:40.220 It's just not helping anything.

00:42:42.460 No, it's a good point.

00:42:44.260 I would be remiss if I didn't get you to respond to this because your big issue these past six

00:42:49.660 weeks and since he announced it has been this, you know, student loan forgiveness, again,

00:42:55.320 a misnomer program by President Biden, which I know you believe is so egregious, he ought

00:42:59.920 to be impeached over it.

00:43:02.600 Corinne Jean-Pierre was asked about it.

00:43:04.240 He's gotten hit with several lawsuits now, which is good because the lawsuits are going

00:43:07.440 to bring down the program.

00:43:08.500 I agree with you.

00:43:09.220 It's completely extra legal what he's doing.

00:43:11.520 So as that's happened, he's slowly tried to change it to the Department of Education.

00:43:16.440 Oh, we're going to do a little differently to try to address the one lawsuit because

00:43:19.460 he knows you're going to lose in that lane.

00:43:20.980 And maybe we'll make another tweak to try to address another set of lawsuits that's gotten

00:43:25.320 filed because he knows he's going to lose again.

00:43:27.240 And Corinne Jean-Pierre was asked about the program.

00:43:29.620 Here's what she said, trying to play to the heartstrings.

00:43:34.000 Sot Six.

00:43:35.820 It's a shame that you have Republicans out there, Republican groups, Republican states

00:43:42.760 that are trying to stop Americans from getting a little bit of a breathing room, a little

00:43:48.920 bit of break.

00:43:49.680 This is a commitment that the president has made.

00:43:52.280 He made it during his campaign.

00:43:54.020 And this is one of the one of the ways that the president is going to continue to work

00:43:59.900 for the American people, trying to find ways to give them a little bit of a break.

00:44:05.260 Because I think it's six Republican states that have also sued.

00:44:08.240 So she's accusing them of stopping the president in his efforts to give people a little bit of

00:44:13.760 a break, Charles.

00:44:16.280 I think the question here is, do we have a constitutional order or do we not?

00:44:20.800 I'm not really interested in her sentiment.

00:44:22.880 The Constitution of the United States gives lawmaking power exclusively to Congress.

00:44:29.620 Congress has not passed a law that permits the president to do this.

00:44:33.780 The 2003 Heroes Act that Biden claims allows him to do this does not.

00:44:39.440 But even if it did, it would require there to be an emergency.

00:44:43.580 Biden himself has said the pandemic is over.

00:44:45.860 And besides, what sort of emergency is only apparent 16, 17 months into a presidency?

00:44:53.300 At its lowest ebb, not its highest ebb.

00:44:57.120 What Biden did was flatly, indisputably illegal.

00:45:02.480 And he's making it worse by trying to parry the lawsuits that are coming in by changing

00:45:08.880 his illegal order on the fly.

00:45:11.320 Not only was his initial order illegal, he's now carving out exceptions.

00:45:16.600 In order to try and avoid the plaintiffs having standing in the eyes of the courts.

00:45:26.180 I will ask this question here, as I have elsewhere.

00:45:31.160 What about our political system would have been different in relation to the student loan order

00:45:38.140 if we didn't have a Congress?

00:45:40.460 If instead we just elected a president and allowed that president to determine what was

00:45:46.340 good and just and moral and right and legal?

00:45:49.340 The order was put forth without Congress.

00:45:54.340 Then when President Biden was sued, he said, don't worry, I've updated to the website on

00:46:01.160 which the order is being tracked.

00:46:04.040 Then when he was sued again, he said, don't worry, I've exempted the people who were suing

00:46:09.160 me so that there is no harm here.

00:46:12.380 That's not how legislating works in this country.

00:46:16.900 And even when Congress has given the president certain powers, even when we have had delegations

00:46:23.260 of legislative authority from the legislature to the executive branch, we have a process.

00:46:30.960 The Administrative Procedure Act is there to prevent this sort of capricious lawmaking.

00:46:36.900 Biden just hasn't used it.

00:46:38.900 He has bypassed it.

00:46:40.200 He has ignored it.

00:46:42.380 And I think that Americans, irrespective of whether or not they like the idea of student

00:46:48.140 loan transference, it's not forgiveness, it's transference, I think they should be deeply

00:46:52.580 worried about this because this is not really a question of the nature of the decision or

00:46:58.180 whether or not one likes the president.

00:46:59.760 It's a question of constitutional integrity.

00:47:02.860 It's amazing.

00:47:03.740 Just she makes it sound like they're helping the poor, the downtrodden, just give them a

00:47:08.800 little bit of a break in these hard times.

00:47:10.680 And what they're in fact doing is taking money from some of the most well-educated and likely

00:47:16.640 to be financially rewarded professionals we have and making the people who are working

00:47:21.780 class pay off their loans.

00:47:23.820 That's what this is.

00:47:24.900 This isn't about heartstrings.

00:47:26.440 This is about reverse Robin Hood.

00:47:29.440 And don't forget, folks, tomorrow I'm going to be sending my next American News Minute.

00:47:32.960 That's all the news you need in one minute or less, plus all the latest trouble my little

00:47:38.140 Strudwick got into.

00:47:39.500 He never disappoints.

00:47:41.040 You can sign up now at MeganKelley.com.

00:47:43.560 If you want to reach out to me directly, you can email me.

00:47:46.280 The email is Megan, M-E-G-Y-N, at MeganKelley.com.

00:47:50.500 And I'll address some of those right here on the show.

00:47:52.500 And don't forget, you can find the Megan Kelly Show live right here on Sirius XM Triumph

00:47:56.120 Channel 111 every weekday at noon east and the full video show and clips by subscribing

00:48:00.520 to our YouTube channel, YouTube.com slash Megan Kelly.

00:48:03.580 Download the podcast wherever you get your podcast for free.

00:48:06.540 And we'll be right back.

00:48:12.360 Let's talk politics down in Georgia for a minute because the Herschel Walker story continues.

00:48:17.840 And it's, you know, it's basically a dispute over what kind of a husband and father he was

00:48:22.680 and what connection he has with the truth present day, because he came out, what initially

00:48:29.200 happened was the Daily Beast, which absolutely hates Herschel Walker and any Republican, came

00:48:33.080 out with a hit piece.

00:48:33.980 It was obviously an oppo research, you know, November type surprise, October surprise, comes

00:48:39.460 out saying he's got, he paid for a woman to have an abortion back in 2009.

00:48:44.480 And here's a card and a check from him in his, with his handwriting for $700.

00:48:50.340 And then we have the woman, uh, we're going to keep her name anonymous, but we know who

00:48:53.980 it was and, and he did it.

00:48:55.520 And this is a guy who's advocating for, um, he's a pro-lifer now and says, I want an abortion

00:49:00.440 ban with no exceptions, not rape, not incest, nothing.

00:49:03.000 So they run the story.

00:49:03.960 He comes out and say, it's a lie and told Fox, not only is it a lie, I don't know this

00:49:08.280 woman and I don't remember sending this woman any money.

00:49:11.340 I don't, I don't know, even know who this is.

00:49:12.620 Uh, he went on, as for the rest of it, he went on Fox and friends yesterday and said

00:49:17.680 the following, uh, to explain away the man he used to be in the man he is today.

00:49:22.080 This is sought eight.

00:49:22.940 I've been redeemed and I'm going to make this statement here.

00:49:26.200 It's like, they're trying to, uh, bring up my past to hurt me, but they don't know, like

00:49:31.480 bringing up my past only energize me to go out and fight even harder.

00:49:34.860 Well, then last night, uh, the daily beast has a follow-up report saying you definitely

00:49:41.380 know the woman because you actually had another child with her and gets the woman to go on

00:49:48.520 record.

00:49:48.860 And she says, yeah, you know, he, he did pay for my abortion and I had another child with

00:49:53.660 him and he definitely knows who I am.

00:49:55.140 And his son, Christian, who's a Trump supporter, like diehard Trump supporter has been out there

00:49:59.960 saying he's not a good man.

00:50:02.140 He threatened my mother.

00:50:03.260 We had to move six times in six months to avoid his wrath.

00:50:07.100 We were in danger.

00:50:08.360 And it's really, it's causing a lot of consternation amongst Republicans who really want to take

00:50:12.560 back the Senate.

00:50:13.520 Charles really want to take back the Senate.

00:50:15.920 And yet this must be grappled with.

00:50:18.540 So how do you think about it?

00:50:21.160 Well, from my perspective, the problem here will be if he's lying now, if this did happen

00:50:27.660 and he's saying it didn't happen, if this report's accurate and he's saying it's false,

00:50:31.540 I think he threatened to sue the Daily Beast.

00:50:34.700 If it were part of his past, I think it would be really fine depending on how he dealt with

00:50:44.220 it now.

00:50:44.840 Now, he has a lot of baggage.

00:50:46.560 He's been open about this.

00:50:47.980 He says that he was a mess, that he struggled with mental health.

00:50:52.300 He wrote a book about that and that he's made all sorts of decisions that he really regrets,

00:50:56.940 but that he found Jesus and he's saved by the grace of God.

00:51:01.660 And, you know, irrespective of the religious component, I think redemption is a good quality

00:51:05.980 to have in a society.

00:51:08.040 And I think it would be an undesirable society in which someone like that couldn't change

00:51:14.660 and then announce that he had changed.

00:51:16.620 And that goes for paying for an abortion, too.

00:51:20.340 There's nothing intrinsically wrong with someone who is now pro-life having not been in the

00:51:25.740 past.

00:51:26.480 There's nothing wrong with somebody who's had an abortion or paid for an abortion saying

00:51:30.820 these were the wrong decisions and I've changed.

00:51:35.320 But if he did it and he's now lying about it, then that is a contemporary problem.

00:51:42.480 That is a current problem.

00:51:43.860 And I think that really does speak to his character now and should actually bring into

00:51:50.380 question whether or not all of his talk of redemption is sincere.

00:51:55.540 I don't know if this story is true or not, so I find it quite difficult to judge.

00:52:01.560 But if it does turn out to be true and if he does turn out to have been lied, then it

00:52:05.440 will hurt him and it should hurt him.

00:52:07.880 Whether or not it will hurt him enough to lose the race, I don't know, because we're

00:52:11.940 about to see new inflation news.

00:52:14.940 We're seeing gas prices go up.

00:52:16.500 It could just be, especially with how popular Brian Kemp, the gubernatorial candidate in Georgia

00:52:21.140 seems to be, it could be that he makes it over the line anyway.

00:52:25.020 If it's a very close race, this could be enough to slough off enough people at the margins

00:52:28.960 to hand the race to his opponent.

00:52:32.180 Think about it, you know, so, and I should clarify, the Daily Beast did not name the

00:52:36.840 woman in the follow-up reporting.

00:52:38.640 They just said, we know who she is and we've gone back to her and now here's a new detail.

00:52:44.260 She was so well known to him that they conceived another child years after the abortion and she

00:52:50.080 continued on with that later pregnancy, though she claimed that Walker said it wasn't a really

00:52:56.700 convenient time for him to have that baby either, but she decided to carry that baby

00:53:01.140 to term and gave birth to him or her.

00:53:05.920 It's an interesting question to me because if all of this is true, if we assume the Daily

00:53:10.320 Beast reporting is true and he did threaten to sue, but then his lawyers when asked kind

00:53:14.220 of walked it back, right?

00:53:15.500 Like, well, we're looking into it.

00:53:18.000 I predict there will be no lawsuit.

00:53:20.840 Do you want a man who you know is flawed in his former marriage, in his role as a man,

00:53:29.480 and even in his connection to the truth about those behaviors?

00:53:32.080 I would expect him to be embarrassed about this and to perhaps lean on the side of some

00:53:36.900 dishonesty.

00:53:37.720 I would.

00:53:38.680 It doesn't reflect well on him.

00:53:40.760 Do you want that man if he's going to be elected to the Senate and tip the balance in

00:53:44.840 favor of Republicans at a time when so much rides in the balance?

00:53:49.720 You know, if if we have another Supreme Court vacancy, Joe Biden's going to fill it in those

00:53:53.780 last two years and then it's going to have to get Senate approval and who controls the

00:53:58.180 Senate will be really important again, not to mention all the other agenda items that

00:54:03.580 the House and potentially the Senate could stop or control over the next two years and

00:54:08.740 beyond.

00:54:09.300 You know, these senators get six year terms, so it's a long it's a long deal once you

00:54:13.880 get somebody in there anyway.

00:54:15.760 Do you care or would you rather go with I don't know, Raphael Warnock?

00:54:18.820 He's got some stuff in his past, too.

00:54:20.360 He allegedly ran over his wife with a car.

00:54:22.460 It's not that great.

00:54:23.540 No, he does.

00:54:24.960 You know, so let's say he's squeaky clean.

00:54:27.020 Let's pretend he's squeaky clean, you know, he's like this minister and he's going to

00:54:30.700 be like God fearing man in there, but he's going to vote for this totally crazy left wing

00:54:34.820 white agenda, woke agenda.

00:54:38.700 And and against all these other things, like against due process for men on college campuses

00:54:42.360 who are accused and he's going to vote for the most far left justice you could ever imagine.

00:54:45.920 Like it raises an interesting question.

00:54:49.060 No, it does.

00:54:49.920 It does.

00:54:50.440 And specifically on the question of abortion, too.

00:54:53.460 I mean, if the idea is that pro-life Americans should look at this and be horrified by it,

00:54:58.980 I understand.

00:55:00.120 But equally, Raphael Warnock's views on abortion are much more likely to have a mass impact

00:55:08.100 than Herschel Walker's because, you know, Warnock is in favor of federal preemption of

00:55:13.280 abortion law.

00:55:14.060 In other words, wiping out 50 states abortion laws.

00:55:17.460 They call this codifying row.

00:55:18.900 So which should you prefer?

00:55:21.320 I think it's a very difficult question, and it's one that I've grappled with and struggled

00:55:25.280 with myself.

00:55:26.020 I wrote a piece just before the 2020 election about this as it related to Donald Trump.

00:55:34.400 I was under no allusions as to Trump's shortcomings, and I laid them out in the first five paragraphs.

00:55:39.940 And then I said, the problem is, I also don't like Biden.

00:55:44.460 And, you know, there are a great deal of important issues at stake in our politics at the moment,

00:55:53.960 issues that affect tens of millions of people.

00:55:57.060 And where the line is between someone's character and how someone will vote is really difficult

00:56:05.640 to discern.

00:56:06.500 It's difficult to discern which you should prefer.

00:56:10.900 I mean, the way that I tend to look at this, the way that I always explain this to people

00:56:14.860 if they ask how I view candidates is, as a rule, you should determine whether or not someone

00:56:21.160 is so far beyond the pale that they've disqualified themselves and then vote for the person you

00:56:25.380 agree with more.

00:56:26.860 You know, so, for example, in Florida, I've done this on your show.

00:56:31.020 I've criticized Governor DeSantis for quite a few things.

00:56:33.920 But I agree with him on more than I disagree with him on.

00:56:36.920 And I agree with him on more than I agree with his opponent, Charlie Criston.

00:56:40.540 And I don't think there is anything about him that is disqualifying.

00:56:44.340 So I'm going to vote for Governor DeSantis.

00:56:46.180 That's fairly easy.

00:56:47.720 With Herschel Walker, that becomes much more difficult.

00:56:50.960 You know, is this disqualifying?

00:56:52.900 The lying that is?

00:56:54.600 Do I agree with him more than his opponent?

00:56:56.560 Yes, I almost certainly do.

00:56:58.120 And how do I weigh that?

00:56:59.320 And, you know, I haven't actually sat down and thought about that in great detail, in

00:57:03.860 part because I don't live in Georgia.

00:57:05.500 So I haven't actually had to.

00:57:07.740 But I agree with you.

00:57:08.720 I think it is tough.

00:57:10.760 And, you know, we'll get a lot of pieces about this from people on either side of this who

00:57:15.200 will pretend that this is a very easy question and that anyone who disagrees with them doesn't

00:57:18.960 care enough.

00:57:19.780 It's just not true.

00:57:20.620 So, you know, if you talk to people outside of the crucible of daily politics, just normal

00:57:30.200 Americans who vote, they really struggle with this, too.

00:57:33.320 I can't count the number of letters and emails that I got after that piece I wrote about Trump

00:57:37.800 saying this is exactly what I'm trying to work out as well.

00:57:41.600 And I would imagine the same things happening in Georgia.

00:57:44.720 It's so like I'm thinking about that Trump tweet versus the Herschel Walker allegations.

00:57:49.640 Herschel Walker, what they've alleged about him is that he was not a good husband.

00:57:54.420 He was not a good man with respect to his obligations and the women he brought into his

00:57:59.920 life, never mind the children.

00:58:03.640 And now when potentially confronted by some of those acts, alleged acts, he may have lied

00:58:10.100 about them.

00:58:10.820 And I again, it's not great to lie, but I would understand why this is a big race.

00:58:16.860 We're at the end.

00:58:17.920 He sees it as an oppo dump meant to get rid of him by the media.

00:58:21.780 And he's probably not wrong.

00:58:24.080 And he's embarrassed.

00:58:25.280 If it's true, he's embarrassed.

00:58:26.880 This is not good conduct.

00:58:29.580 But the Trump thing is like an active decision to tweet out something so weirdly.

00:58:36.760 I know this is a weird phrase, but like unnecessarily racist against somebody who worked for him and

00:58:41.940 was really loyal to him.

00:58:42.840 She didn't like the January 6th thing either.

00:58:45.240 Like, why?

00:58:46.360 What's why just disparage yourself, your supporters in that way?

00:58:51.520 You know, like it's going to be used against them.

00:58:53.300 It's going to be used against all Republicans.

00:58:55.320 It's an active decision to be reckless.

00:58:57.740 And that's the thing about Trump.

00:58:58.960 He can be just so reckless, not to mention the racial tones.

00:59:02.780 And, you know, like that's a whole other matter.

00:59:05.180 Herschel Walker's thing seems like.

00:59:07.520 He's he's got a serious weakness in the personal lane.

00:59:10.580 Yeah, I don't know.

00:59:11.340 To me, they're slightly different.

00:59:13.780 I do think they're different.

00:59:15.540 Yeah.

00:59:16.080 I also think that it's important for us to remember, just as a matter of elementary fact,

00:59:22.460 that neither party has a monopoly on virtue in this area.

00:59:26.020 Ted Kennedy was elected over and over and over again after what happened at Chappaquiddick

00:59:31.100 because he had the right political views.

00:59:33.460 And it was only after he died that people were prepared to say maybe that wasn't a great idea.

00:59:37.640 But Bill Clinton was more popular among Democrats after the Lewinsky scandal than he was before.

00:59:45.980 And it was only after not just he had left office, but his wife had lost her presidential

00:59:50.160 run that we started to see columns saying maybe that was a mistake.

00:59:55.480 And the famous one was, I believe, Juanita in The New York Times.

00:59:59.700 And Republicans do the same thing.

01:00:01.200 They did it with Trump.

01:00:01.940 Most Republicans would have been absolutely horrified prior to 2015, 2016 to have someone

01:00:08.680 like that representing their party.

01:00:10.780 Republicans like to see themselves as the party of character and morality and the stand-up

01:00:18.120 guy.

01:00:18.520 And then Trump came along and people said, well, the Supreme Court's in the balance.

01:00:23.460 And I don't think that's irrational.

01:00:25.180 As I say, I think it is very difficult to work out where the line is and how to interrogate

01:00:29.900 this stuff.

01:00:30.440 But it is important for us on both the right and the left not to pretend that we're the

01:00:35.120 only ones who do it because we're absolutely not.

01:00:38.080 Oh, that was the joke of the Trump-Clinton matchup where people were like, look, another

01:00:42.680 woman has come forward to accuse him.

01:00:44.540 It's like, do you know how many people have accused Bill Clinton and of what?

01:00:50.360 I mean, of actual rape and repeated sexual assault against women who worked for him over

01:00:56.020 and over, who have women have gone on the record under oath and made these allegations.

01:01:00.200 And Hillary Clinton actively worked to help cover it up and to defend him.

01:01:05.300 And by the way, one of America's most respected anchors, George Stephanopoulos, created the war

01:01:10.460 room meant to smear and destroy all of them.

01:01:13.500 So it's like, can you spare me the moral high ground?

01:01:17.240 Neither ticket has got perfect men connected to the office that would that would inhabit

01:01:23.160 in which, you know, they or their spouse want to ascent.

01:01:26.880 So to me, it's just frustrating because I said this yesterday, but you could get Mitt

01:01:31.000 Romney, who I don't think is I don't think there'd ever be a story that Mitt Romney cheated

01:01:34.020 on his wife or got him to be pregnant or pay for an abortion or sent out a racist tweet.

01:01:38.120 Right. But he's a nightmare. Mitt Romney.

01:01:40.860 I loved him back in the day.

01:01:42.360 But now he's like, I don't even know what he is, but he's not a Republican that most

01:01:45.960 Republicans would vote for over a real Republican.

01:01:48.900 Right. So it's more so right now than ever because we know so much about them.

01:01:53.680 The day of social media, the day of like everything you've ever done is known.

01:01:57.320 We really have to grapple with this stuff in a way we didn't.

01:02:00.440 OK, let me shift gears for a second. Speaking of bad Democratic politicians, Governor Andrew

01:02:06.220 Cuomo got booted out of office and we got stuck with some very stupid replacement, Kathy

01:02:10.820 Hochul. And we'll see whether she wins. She looks like she's going to win, but she shouldn't.

01:02:15.900 But his brother, Chris Cuomo, got booted for trying to help him smear the women who are

01:02:20.260 accusing him from CNN. And now he's got over at News Nation, which is a network trying to

01:02:26.320 be a little bit more in the middle, independent and opened up last night saying he's going

01:02:30.400 to or two nights ago saying he's going to be the voice of reason.

01:02:32.680 He's going to be the person who eschews hard partisanship.

01:02:35.720 I mean, after how many years of doing exactly that on CNN, telling Republicans he hated them.

01:02:41.100 And there was a question about how well will he do?

01:02:43.300 You know, will there be an audience for that?

01:02:44.500 He's one day into it.

01:02:45.960 He literally got.

01:02:48.140 Eight thousand viewers in the key advertising demo of twenty five to fifty four, which is

01:02:53.640 all they care about in cable news.

01:02:54.760 They don't care about that. The overall number was dreadful, too.

01:02:56.860 It's like one hundred and forty nine thousand eight thousand.

01:03:00.140 I'll tell you, having spent 17 years in cable news, eight thousand in the demo means everyone

01:03:04.580 left except for their cats.

01:03:06.720 A few cats were at home with the television station still on and they managed to give you

01:03:12.040 an eight thousand in the twenty five to fifty four year old category.

01:03:14.580 So what do you make of Chris Cuomo's attempt to reinvent himself over there?

01:03:20.260 I don't know why we need a Chris Cuomo.

01:03:22.540 I've written this.

01:03:23.300 Why do we need a Chris Cuomo?

01:03:25.660 If his last name was Smith, he wouldn't be on television.

01:03:30.540 What is it about him that makes him think that he needs to go from place to place and

01:03:35.040 try to resuscitate his career?

01:03:36.440 What is it that he adds?

01:03:37.700 He's not an expert in anything.

01:03:40.260 He's been shown to have seriously poor moral and professional judgment.

01:03:46.680 Give someone else a chance.

01:03:48.160 I don't I don't understand this.

01:03:49.900 It's not as if it's written in the Constitution that Chris Cuomo has to be on air in some

01:03:54.280 way.

01:03:55.840 And if if there's not the demand there, which is you're suggesting there's not those numbers

01:04:01.260 are pretty terrible.

01:04:02.060 Then isn't it just time he tried something else?

01:04:04.640 Yeah.

01:04:04.780 Honestly, like I was at my friend's house in New York the other day.

01:04:08.440 I'm like that.

01:04:09.200 Your doorman has just opened the door for more people than watch that show.

01:04:13.220 And it's the truth.

01:04:15.340 Not only that, but he went down from his lead in, which is also a very bad sign when you're

01:04:20.660 going up in the prime time.

01:04:21.860 Your numbers are supposed to go up respectively.

01:04:23.460 So, yeah, I agree with you.

01:04:26.220 There isn't there isn't a reason.

01:04:28.120 But he continues to get hired and continues to talk because he thinks people want to hear

01:04:31.740 him.

01:04:32.540 And to me, it's amazing because his brother's out there saying I'm time for I'm ready for

01:04:36.820 a comeback.

01:04:37.540 And he's out there having been sort of pushed out of this job.

01:04:40.780 These guys, these Cuomos, these Democrats, boy, they get they get out of the Me Too cancellation

01:04:46.000 jail like that.

01:04:47.480 They don't have to spend any time at all in there.

01:04:49.540 If your last name is Cuomo, it's especially easy to get out of it.

01:04:52.940 Not so for people who aren't hardcore Democrats or, God forbid, Republicans.

01:04:58.600 Charles, it's been an absolute pleasure.

01:05:01.500 It was a pleasure.

01:05:02.300 Thank you for having me.

01:05:03.420 All right.

01:05:03.640 Coming up next, we're going to get into we went to Georgia politics and we talked about

01:05:07.100 Walker.

01:05:08.380 Next up, we're going to talk about Pennsylvania with Selena Zito.

01:05:11.540 She is the reporter to talk to.

01:05:13.980 And she's been following Fetterman and Oz all over the campaign trails.

01:05:17.840 We've got examples of how that's going.

01:05:20.560 And she's going to give us an update on the tightening poles in a state that was said to

01:05:25.120 be firmly in Fetterman's camp.

01:05:28.440 Stay tuned.

01:05:33.280 All eyes are on the state of Pennsylvania.

01:05:35.720 I think it's a commonwealth, the commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

01:05:38.320 There are only three commonwealths in the U.S.

01:05:41.560 Can you tell me which ones they are?

01:05:43.020 Can you can you do it without Googling it?

01:05:44.820 Um, email me, Megan at Megan Kelly dot com.

01:05:49.480 OK, but anyway, there's a very important Senate race there.

01:05:52.340 As you know, this is one of the ones that could turn the balance.

01:05:55.300 Right now we have a 50 50 Senate GOP versus Dem.

01:05:58.380 And when that's the case, the sitting vice president gets to cast the deciding vote.

01:06:02.620 And she is a Democrat, as you know.

01:06:04.180 So that's why for effective all of all effective purposes, the Democrats control the Senate.

01:06:08.640 So every single seat matters, every single one.

01:06:10.640 And one of the most important races that everybody's watching is in Pennsylvania.

01:06:13.860 Now, at one point, the Democratic candidate, John Fetterman, there is who's the lieutenant

01:06:18.320 governor, was leading against his opponent, Republican Dr.

01:06:22.400 Mehmet Oz of TV fame by almost double digits.

01:06:27.440 But over the last few weeks, that gap has narrowed and the race has been dubbed a toss up now.

01:06:33.740 All right.

01:06:33.940 So I want to I want to just walk you through it before we bring in Selena.

01:06:37.100 So Fetterman had a stroke last May and it led to all sorts of health issues for him that

01:06:44.980 the campaign clearly was not being honest about.

01:06:47.620 All right.

01:06:47.880 They they sort of said he had a stroke and then it came out that the stroke was related

01:06:52.620 to a heart issue.

01:06:53.340 And the heart issue had started five years earlier before he even ran for lieutenant governor

01:06:56.880 and it was not disclosed.

01:06:58.400 And now we can't get the current medical reports.

01:07:00.740 And there's been no doctor press conference or statement, et cetera.

01:07:04.340 And we don't know how John Fetterman is doing, but we know he's struggling.

01:07:10.600 He's struggling health wise.

01:07:12.120 He went on just as an example, Chris Hayes' show on MSNBC a couple of weeks ago.

01:07:18.440 And I'll play it for you.

01:07:19.240 It's going to be soundbite 15.

01:07:20.700 But listen to how he mixes up his words.

01:07:24.240 He's confused in what was his first TV interview in months.

01:07:28.300 Listen.

01:07:28.440 First, I just wanted to check in and see how how you're feeling and how you're doing.

01:07:34.040 I'm doing I'm doing fantastic.

01:07:36.260 And and it's not about kicking balls in the authority or anything.

01:07:42.660 It's not about kicking balls in the authority.

01:07:45.880 What?

01:07:47.080 I mean, I guess if it was it's not about kicking authority in the balls, it's not really a saying,

01:07:52.700 but at least it would make some sense.

01:07:54.400 But he can't do it.

01:07:55.740 And what we're being told now is he can't even do a Q&A without closed captioning sitting

01:08:01.960 in front of him.

01:08:02.620 That that basically translates the auditory version of words into written.

01:08:09.360 Now, there are real questions about whether somebody who's in that condition should be

01:08:13.120 should be representing Pennsylvania in the U.S.

01:08:16.500 Senate.

01:08:16.840 Right.

01:08:17.380 It should be there listening to debates on the Senate floor, which are not closed captioned

01:08:22.760 and representing this state.

01:08:24.840 But we don't know whether that's required full time and so on, because he won't speak

01:08:29.220 about his health and we won't get updated about his health.

01:08:31.920 And so far, he's refused to even even have a debate.

01:08:35.440 Right now, he's sort of dragging his feet on the one that he was shamed into joining me

01:08:39.840 now is Selena Zito.

01:08:41.480 She writes for The Washington Examiner, The New York Post and The Pittsburgh Post Gazette.

01:08:46.400 And she knows everything about Pennsylvania and Pennsylvania politics.

01:08:50.940 Selena, welcome.

01:08:51.420 Hey there.

01:08:52.920 You are the person to talk to.

01:08:54.380 And so this race is getting interesting because Oz was he was losing and he was a disappointment

01:09:02.400 to a lot of Republicans who weren't sure whether they should get behind him.

01:09:06.280 Is he a real Republican?

01:09:07.800 There was a sort of an inter-party fight about him, but he became the nominee.

01:09:12.480 And at that point, Republicans were like, OK, we'll get behind him.

01:09:15.980 But the enthusiasm wasn't there.

01:09:18.260 And on the Democratic side, they have this guy, Fetterman, who had a stroke.

01:09:22.100 We have no idea what his physical condition was, but he was running away with the race.

01:09:26.020 And then what happened?

01:09:27.720 Because there's been a real tightening in the polls.

01:09:30.400 He says the Democrat is still pulling ahead, according to most polls.

01:09:33.340 I think all polls.

01:09:34.620 But it's getting tighter.

01:09:35.840 Well, I think what you saw what happened is the thing that a lot of journalists weren't

01:09:41.820 covering and that Oz had this sort of understanding that he needed to get out in there in the

01:09:49.940 public, you know, away from the television, away from Twitter, away from cable news and

01:09:56.120 spend his time getting to know the voters, understanding what their issues are.

01:10:00.540 And I have spent thousands and thousands of miles following him on this trek this week

01:10:09.460 of June, going not just to rural areas, not just to the suburbs, not just to the cities,

01:10:15.440 the places that you expect.

01:10:17.120 But I spent the entire week when he went into the Black communities of Pittsburgh, but also

01:10:24.120 the Monongahela Valley, Philadelphia, Erie, and spent hours and hours with community leaders,

01:10:31.920 Black leaders, faith leaders, talking to them, and more importantly, listening to them about

01:10:37.740 their concerns.

01:10:39.160 And what has been really fascinating, and you see the sort of revelation on voters' faces,

01:10:44.860 is that this guy has actually matured into a very good candidate.

01:10:49.160 I would say he's more Tom Ridge or Tom Cotton in terms of style and thoughtfulness and accessibility

01:10:58.460 than maybe you would see with a more populist like J.D. Vance in Ohio.

01:11:06.780 And I think that is the untold story about this race.

01:11:10.960 He went out and did the sort of old-fashioned thing, the unglamorous thing.

01:11:15.080 I've seen him dodge cow pies on farms, but also, you know, walking down bullet-ridden

01:11:23.340 street, parade street in Erie, Pennsylvania, and doing the hard work it takes to earn a

01:11:30.420 vote.

01:11:31.000 You know, in Pennsylvania and in most states, voters want you to show up.

01:11:36.740 They want to kick the tires.

01:11:38.800 They want you to hear them.

01:11:40.640 They want you to listen to them.

01:11:42.240 And he's demonstrated a willingness and a curiosity to do that.

01:11:47.660 And I think that's what happened.

01:11:48.960 It has happened at the same time where Fetterman has gone from sort of this celebrity progressive

01:11:56.440 rights based a large part upon what he looks like.

01:12:01.700 However, as, you know, there's been a lot of great big, you know, beautiful think pieces

01:12:06.980 about him, written, you know, magazine pieces, but a lot of it was based on books and what

01:12:13.540 he said he was.

01:12:16.200 And now other journalists are realizing that he's not exactly what he espoused to be.

01:12:24.160 So he ran on being this sort of small town, mayor from Braddock.

01:12:32.000 Braddock is an old steel town, the 1700s, and that he, you know, brought it back.

01:12:38.660 And the crime was, you know, diminished.

01:12:41.720 That's not true.

01:12:42.540 Under his, under his mayorship, they lost a cumulative amount of 40% of the population.

01:12:51.880 No new, the only two new businesses that came to town, one has already closed and the other

01:12:57.140 one now has limited hours.

01:12:58.820 The most important place in Braddock, Pennsylvania, Braddock Hospital, where for 20 years was the

01:13:07.720 only place you could sit down and have a meal at the hospital cafeteria, was demolished.

01:13:13.400 It was, it was torn down.

01:13:14.740 He did nothing to save it and, and, and show this sort of image has not, his, the realities

01:13:23.460 have not lived up to the image.

01:13:26.460 Uh, well, there's, there's the, the, the GOP has also finally unleashed its, some of its

01:13:32.480 war chest against him.

01:13:33.780 Their spending has gone way up on the ads against Fetterman, um, and, and they're attacking

01:13:39.960 him on one of the most important issues, certainly in Pennsylvania, but also nationally.

01:13:44.780 And that is crime and accusing him of being soft on it.

01:13:49.080 We've got an example of one of those ads, um, by this, let me see if this is, uh, yeah.

01:13:56.460 Let's see.

01:13:57.260 We've got a few.

01:13:57.940 This one's by Dr. Oz and it hits him on crime and drugs.

01:14:00.820 It's Sot 17.

01:14:03.480 John Fetterman supports decriminalizing dangerous drugs like fentanyl and heroin and Fetterman

01:14:09.320 supports creating heroin injection sites in our neighborhoods.

01:14:12.880 Fetterman's ideas are radical, deadly, and raw.

01:14:16.100 Giving addicts easy access to drugs is not the answer.

01:14:19.440 I've worked in addiction for years.

01:14:20.900 It hurts to see families broken, promising young futures cut short.

01:14:26.120 I'll crack down on the cartels, fund rehab centers, and rescue as many lives as I can.

01:14:32.700 So obviously a related issue, but the crime, like the, he continues to hit it because Pennsylvania

01:14:38.660 is suffering from this.

01:14:39.660 And Fetterman, as I understand it, Selena was on, or maybe still is on a parole board.

01:14:45.020 And it's like, he's never seen a convicted felon who he wants to keep behind bars.

01:14:49.980 Right.

01:14:50.820 I mean, his position on the parole board caused such a consternation between him and Attorney

01:14:57.760 General Josh Shapiro, who's now running for governor.

01:15:00.780 That is that Fetterman, uh, threatened to run against Shapiro for governor, um, over it.

01:15:08.100 So he's at odds with a lot of the sort of more, uh, moderate Democrats, um, and governing

01:15:14.760 Democrats in the state.

01:15:17.000 And, you know, and, and speaking of crime, crime has skyrocketed in Philadelphia.

01:15:20.740 It also has in Pittsburgh and in Erie.

01:15:24.540 So has the fentanyl overdoses.

01:15:26.660 You know, fentanyl was seen as sort of the drug of white Appalachian working class.

01:15:33.100 Well, that has, that has dramatically changed.

01:15:35.780 Philadelphia is now one of the leading cities, or if not the leading city in overdose deaths

01:15:41.080 in this country.

01:15:42.320 And that is the minority majority, uh, city.

01:15:46.000 So, so crime and fentanyl are uppermost in the minds of, of voters as they, as they go into

01:15:53.760 the voting booth in November and crime in his city, which he claimed he reduced.

01:15:59.320 He didn't.

01:16:00.160 It went up, uh, violent crime went up, uh, um, uh, theft went up.

01:16:06.160 You know, it, it, it, it, it, it's, uh, unfortunately he's sort of, his, his oxygen has been all the

01:16:14.480 great stories written about people who parachuted in and out of, of, of, um, of Braddock and never

01:16:22.040 wrote the real story.

01:16:23.420 And, and the other, and it's like Braddock is one thing, but it's like, as, as a Lieutenant

01:16:28.220 governor and as somebody sitting on this parole board, he's got another record and it's like

01:16:32.120 murderer after murderer.

01:16:33.780 He's like, yeah, he should get out.

01:16:34.900 He should get out.

01:16:35.460 A lot of families upset about it.

01:16:36.800 And by the way, I will get to his attacks on Dr. Oz and where, what his messaging is

01:16:40.880 in one second.

01:16:41.560 Um, but the second piece of the, the Fetterman problems and why we think this race is getting

01:16:47.660 tighter and tighter, um, by the way, just to let you know, so a Suffolk university USA

01:16:52.680 today poll, uh, just from two days ago shows that Fetterman is up 46 to 40 over Oz, but it

01:17:00.600 was, it was way, uh, less tight than that just a couple of weeks ago.

01:17:06.900 So, and some, and some polls have had them even tighter than that.

01:17:11.080 Um, so, so the other thing is his health.

01:17:13.720 As I said, in the intro, um, we don't know how Fetterman is.

01:17:17.620 I played that soundbite from him on, um, on Chris Hayes.

01:17:21.720 You've been following him and I'm going to get your take on it, but you've been following

01:17:25.380 Fetterman to his rallies to see.

01:17:27.460 And here's one example of what Selena has observed where he struggles.

01:17:33.380 He seems to struggle to get through his sentences.

01:17:35.020 This is thought 12.

01:17:36.900 What is wrong with demanding for an easy, safe kind of their income, a path to a safe place

01:17:53.580 for them to win or excuse me, to work.

01:17:57.920 No, it's incomprehensible.

01:17:59.400 So what have you observed?

01:18:01.420 Well, you know, I've been covering John Fetterman since 2005.

01:18:05.180 I live in Western Pennsylvania.

01:18:07.700 Um, and, and it is, is very, I will say it is very sad to see that, um, to see, to, to

01:18:15.740 see the condition that he is in.

01:18:17.840 But, and, and, and, and I, the stroke has left its mark.

01:18:21.960 It is called auditory, um, I'm going to forget the whole phrase, but what it has to do with,

01:18:29.160 as it explains to me, um, uh, by, uh, um, an expert in this in Philadelphia is that he

01:18:34.960 can't process what people are saying to him.

01:18:37.020 So, therefore, when someone says something to him, when it comes back out, that is where

01:18:41.560 he struggles.

01:18:42.480 But I think, Megan, what is really important, and I don't think we've been paying enough

01:18:47.200 attention to, is the heart condition is what caused the stroke.

01:18:51.680 And the heart condition was diagnosed in 2017, a very serious heart condition, and he let

01:18:58.260 it go for five years.

01:19:00.680 He not only had a pacemaker in, put in, but he also had a defibrillator placed in.

01:19:08.900 Yeah, sorry.

01:19:09.800 I struggle with that word.

01:19:11.180 That's a tough one.

01:19:11.820 So, so, I, I don't, we don't know the condition of his heart.

01:19:17.700 We haven't talked to his cardiologist.

01:19:19.800 And, and if you think, if someone is sitting back and saying, well, what's none of your

01:19:23.080 business?

01:19:23.860 Well, in my state of Pennsylvania, we have a very, um, long tradition that if our elected

01:19:30.360 officials are, have a medical issue, they have come out shoulder to shoulder with the

01:19:36.700 elected official and explain to the voters and to the reporters what is wrong.

01:19:40.680 Think Arlen Specter.

01:19:42.220 He had a brain aneurysm.

01:19:43.540 He had triple bypass surgery.

01:19:46.380 He had skin cancer.

01:19:47.460 I remember that one too.

01:19:48.880 Yeah.

01:19:49.360 And then he, and Hodgkin's disease.

01:19:52.400 And, and Bob Casey, the, the former, the late governor, he had a liver and heart transplant.

01:19:58.380 But, you know, I, I, we all knew what was happening minute by minute.

01:20:04.200 The only thing we have from the Fetterman campaign is what they're saying.

01:20:08.400 And because they've been so dishonest since the very beginning saying, you know, oh, it's

01:20:14.820 just a blip and I'll be fine to, to, uh, I almost died.

01:20:20.740 The voters deserve to know the truth, whether they decide to or not to vote for him.

01:20:25.180 It's not the story.

01:20:26.280 The story is, this is crazy.

01:20:29.100 Yes, this is crazy.

01:20:30.260 And now we have, well, I don't know, do we, or do we not have a debate scheduled for

01:20:34.840 October 25th?

01:20:36.060 The, the, the voting has already begun as of late September in Pennsylvania via mail

01:20:43.100 in.

01:20:43.680 And I assume that's because of the change they did in the last election, Selena, to make

01:20:48.620 mail in voting just as easy as possible during the pandemic, which by the way is over.

01:20:53.540 Um, so they're already voting right now and there's been no debate.

01:20:57.060 And usually there are at least two debates, but is it on or isn't it?

01:21:00.460 Um, well, it's technically on for October 25th.

01:21:06.300 Um, we shall, we shall see that the chamber, um, the chamber of commerce, uh, um, debate was

01:21:14.640 supposed to be held this past, this past week in, in Harrisburg.

01:21:19.420 And instead, um, um, Oz had 30 minutes to talk and, and Josh Shapiro had 30 minutes to talk

01:21:26.320 because Doug Mastriano wants the Republican, uh, candidate for governor.

01:21:30.520 He won't debate either.

01:21:32.420 So, um, and, and Donna Brazile was there and she was admonished Satterman for, for not,

01:21:41.100 um, for not debating.

01:21:43.060 Mm-hmm.

01:21:43.880 What, I mean, I don't even understand his excuse at this point.

01:21:46.740 I know he said, I, I need to have closed captions to read what Oz would say in a debate.

01:21:52.060 And Oz, as I understand it, said, great, you can have him.

01:21:55.180 That's fine.

01:21:55.760 But the debate needs to go a little longer than 60 minutes.

01:21:58.240 We're going to need 90 since your closed captioning system is going to significantly delay what

01:22:02.900 we can get to.

01:22:04.240 And, and Fetterman was like, no, I don't follow your rules.

01:22:07.660 I, he just, he doesn't want to do it.

01:22:09.500 Such a baby.

01:22:11.080 I mean, really, how do you act like such a brat when somebody.

01:22:16.100 And want us to believe you're such a tough guy.

01:22:18.740 Yeah, well, absolutely.

01:22:21.900 Exactly.

01:22:22.340 And to the other point of his image of a tough guy, you know, he has tried to create this

01:22:28.340 image of, of being just that.

01:22:30.480 However, the entire time that he was mayor of Braddock, his parents supported him.

01:22:37.460 You know, I didn't realize the extent of that until I was preparing for today.

01:22:42.160 Oz hit him with saying, you've been on your parents couch, like your parents have been

01:22:45.480 paying for your life until you were 40 something years old.

01:22:47.980 So don't criticize me 49 years old.

01:22:50.880 So don't criticize my, my mansions and all my wealth.

01:22:54.480 I've been working my ass off.

01:22:55.860 Successful physician, Harvard educated, uh, attending physician at I think New York pres

01:23:01.160 like on and on.

01:23:02.500 And not to mention his successful talk show host at his career as one.

01:23:06.400 But can you just fill in the, the lines there on Fetterman on the parents couch?

01:23:10.480 That's really fascinating.

01:23:12.620 So he is the being mayor of Braddock pays $150 a month.

01:23:18.720 He has three kids and a fabulous house.

01:23:21.540 I've actually been inside it, um, right across from steel mill.

01:23:25.320 Uh, his parents paid his salary, um, every year that he was mayor, um, of, of, of, of Braddock.

01:23:35.320 So he lived off of his parents and, and, and I think it's also important to know that he

01:23:40.000 did not pay.

01:23:41.280 He went, I think it was, oh my gosh, it was in the six sixties, uh, the 60 instances of

01:23:47.980 not paying the school tax.

01:23:49.420 This is a guy who's, who's run on, on, on, um, funding the public schools and the public

01:23:57.440 school system in his district, in his town is one of the poorest in the country.

01:24:02.240 And he failed to play the pay the school tax.

01:24:05.280 I think to the tune of 38,000, I don't have the amount in front of me.

01:24:08.700 And it took six years for them to finally, they had put liens on his property.

01:24:12.840 They had to take him to court and he just didn't pay.

01:24:16.980 So, but he tried to uses that.

01:24:19.880 He uses that to his advantage by saying like, I'm a man of the people.

01:24:23.000 You know, you talk about his looks.

01:24:24.100 He looks like a Pittsburgh Steeler.

01:24:25.480 He looks like a tough guy, you know, like somebody you might see on the gridiron.

01:24:28.080 Um, so he just basically tries to say Mehmet Oz is not relatable.

01:24:32.220 He's this effete, you know, ultra rich Oprah disciple.

01:24:37.820 He doesn't get Pennsylvanians.

01:24:39.680 Here's a little bit of how that's sounding in the ads against him.

01:24:45.080 Um, this is thought 16.

01:24:47.360 With my diet, you can eat all you want, anytime you want.

01:24:52.780 And you'll lose weight?

01:24:54.400 Uh, you might.

01:24:55.380 It's a free country.

01:24:56.480 I've got the number one miracle in a bottle to burn your fat.

01:25:00.340 Lose fat without diet or exercise.

01:25:02.720 Steppering stomach fat instantly disappears.

01:25:06.060 I recommend a slow, steady gorging process combined with acyl horizontology.

01:25:13.540 Garcinia cambogia extract.

01:25:15.340 Crystal sonic therapy.

01:25:16.940 C.

01:25:17.720 Buckthorn.

01:25:19.180 Okay.

01:25:19.520 Hit another line of attack by Fetterman against Oz suggesting he's a hack.

01:25:23.000 He's a hack doctor who pushed questionable medical remedies during the 20 years hosting his show.

01:25:28.280 So how's that playing, Selena?

01:25:30.540 I mean, I've never even seen the ad, so I don't think it's playing well.

01:25:34.540 So I don't think it's penetrating.

01:25:37.940 I, I, I, I haven't seen that ad.

01:25:40.060 Um, so I, I, I don't know.

01:25:42.180 I don't think, so his cute little memes and, and his attacks about crudités and, and, uh,

01:25:50.360 New Jersey and calling him a quack and out of touch at first gathered a lot of attention

01:25:56.380 on Twitter.

01:25:57.540 However, as people have found out that that's the only thing that Fetterman is running on,

01:26:02.660 they're sort of, you know, I, I don't know that they vote broad.

01:26:07.340 I just don't know that they vote.

01:26:09.220 I've had several Democrats say exactly that to me.

01:26:12.420 They're like, well, we're, I'm not voting for either of them.

01:26:15.300 Um, and these are Democrats who, you know, I, I think the old phrase was yellow dog Democrat.

01:26:21.140 Um, and, and, you know, they wouldn't vote for anyone that wasn't a Democrat, but they

01:26:25.940 are so unhappy with his lack of, uh, what the guy said the other day, there's no, they're

01:26:31.920 there.

01:26:32.240 Uh, and I think that's the struggle right now for Democrats.

01:26:35.620 I think Fetterman's problem right now is gaining new voters, right?

01:26:42.800 He has been at the same place the entire time.

01:26:45.860 He's not gained or earned new voters.

01:26:48.820 Whereas losing Oz is gaining.

01:26:51.060 That's why it's getting tighter.

01:26:52.800 Right.

01:26:53.240 Exactly.

01:26:54.020 And, and Oz is, you know, I, I was very skeptical of him to begin with.

01:26:59.180 Um, his first event was kind of like glossy and staged.

01:27:04.420 And I thought, oh, this is not going to fly in, in Pennsylvania.

01:27:07.940 It's just, I mean, it's, it's nice, but it's not going to fly.

01:27:11.560 Uh, he has really changed.

01:27:13.940 I, I have a story about that coming out in New York post this weekend, just this dramatic

01:27:18.660 change, uh, uh, and the seriousness of which he's taken this role, um, has really been

01:27:26.000 a remarkable sort of metamorphosis that I didn't anticipate happening.

01:27:30.980 Well, one of the things you wrote about that I thought was interesting was when you listen

01:27:33.500 to Fetterman on the campaign trail, he can get the sentences out, maybe not perfectly

01:27:37.800 stumbles a lot, but he keeps saying the same three things, you know, he keeps hitting Oz.

01:27:44.560 You mentioned the crudité thing, just for the viewers who aren't aware, Oz, when he put

01:27:49.280 out some video and he was walking through the vegetable department of what he called Wegner's,

01:27:54.220 which is really Wegner's and, um, he used the term crudité, which is a term, but it's

01:27:59.240 not really a man of the people term.

01:28:01.040 Most of us call it like a veggie tray.

01:28:03.100 And he's been getting hit for that.

01:28:04.860 By the way, here it is.

01:28:05.680 In case you haven't seen it, it's Sot 10.

01:28:08.020 So I used to grocery shopping.

01:28:09.220 I'm at Wegner's and my wife wants some vegetables for crudité, right?

01:28:13.580 So here's a broccoli.

01:28:15.840 That's two bucks.

01:28:16.980 A ton of broccoli there.

01:28:18.840 There's some asparagus.

01:28:19.880 That's $4.

01:28:21.200 All right.

01:28:21.540 You get that.

01:28:21.960 You get that.

01:28:23.000 We already showed you the highlight.

01:28:24.020 That's four more dollars.

01:28:25.080 So anyway, um, that was the problem.

01:28:27.340 He used the word crudité, which is a word, but it's, it's an elite word.

01:28:31.700 So you've been saying that Fetterman has been kind of just hitting the same few things.

01:28:35.940 Whereas Oz is like listening.

01:28:37.540 He's talking about the crime rates, talking about the drugs.

01:28:39.640 He's talking about things that are actually affecting people's lives.

01:28:42.520 Yeah, that's exactly what I've been saying.

01:28:44.920 I mean, you know, it's, it's still, it's 30 days out.

01:28:48.560 I would say ask me in two weeks where this happening, but I would say right now,

01:28:53.260 well, if I, if I, if I wanted to be one of the two men, I'd probably want to be Oz because

01:28:59.540 he's moving in the right direction where Fetterman is not.

01:29:03.380 Um, it's like the racehorse at the, at the last lap.

01:29:07.100 Yeah.

01:29:07.600 He sort of reminds me, I was thinking this sort of dawned on me the other day, um, and

01:29:13.740 watching his crowd and the people that are attracted to his crowds were with her mostly

01:29:18.940 middle-aged white, um, with a varying, um, degrees.

01:29:23.540 Some have degrees, some don't, uh, a sprinkling of young people, but not very many people of

01:29:30.240 color.

01:29:30.560 He has a problem with people of color because.

01:29:33.900 You're talking about Fetterman or Oz?

01:29:36.020 Pardon?

01:29:37.080 You're talking about Fetterman right now or Oz?

01:29:38.740 Fetterman.

01:29:39.680 Yeah.

01:29:39.960 Fetterman has a real, yeah.

01:29:41.860 It just reminds me of the Howard Dean campaign in 2004 for some reason, um, based on who attends,

01:29:48.620 um, sort of the lack of depth and, and, um, and his problem with black voters, you know,

01:29:57.760 he, you were going to, you were going to get to this.

01:29:59.960 Yes.

01:30:00.180 I've got an ad.

01:30:01.060 Let me run the ad.

01:30:01.920 And then you fill in the story here about his, it's crazy.

01:30:04.940 Cause if this had been a Republican, whoever did this, they could kiss their electoral future.

01:30:10.620 Goodbye.

01:30:11.060 I think the Democrats would just kill them, but they've given Fetterman a total pass on this

01:30:15.780 issue.

01:30:16.000 Here's a bit of an ad from the Republican Jewish coalition victory fund against Fetterman

01:30:21.020 sought 18.

01:30:23.020 I may have broken the law.

01:30:24.740 I may have broken the law.

01:30:26.720 That's what John Fetterman said after he chased down an unarmed, innocent black man and held

01:30:31.880 him at gunpoint.

01:30:33.220 Now this guy wants to be in the Senate.

01:30:35.880 Are you serious?

01:30:37.440 My message to black voters, do your homework about John Fetterman.

01:30:42.160 I may have broken the law.

01:30:43.780 He didn't even apologize.

01:30:44.960 And now he wants our vote.

01:30:47.580 Not a chance.

01:30:50.240 Selina, he basically chased somebody with a gun for jogging while black.

01:30:55.040 Yes.

01:30:56.540 A shotgun and held it to him until the police arrived.

01:31:03.060 And I just want to know why his shotgun was in the back of his truck.

01:31:06.660 I mean, nobody's even asked that question.

01:31:08.440 And, you know, that's not the only incident.

01:31:12.500 You know, he also, there was a black nightclub in Braddock and our black owned nightclub in Braddock.

01:31:24.880 I should mention that Braddock is majority black town.

01:31:30.340 But he, in the middle of the night, was caught on the surveillance cameras.

01:31:35.860 I remember covering it back, I think it was 2010, where in the middle of the night, like

01:31:40.560 two in the morning, he walked over and changed the sign on the front door of the nightclub

01:31:48.640 that was said it was opening soon.

01:31:50.360 And it's just something that said it's never opening.

01:31:53.880 Got caught doing it and told reporters, like, yeah, I did it.

01:31:58.400 They're a nuisance.

01:31:59.380 I, you know, I don't want them here.

01:32:01.640 Like, you just can't arbitrarily do that.

01:32:06.020 You can't arbitrarily chase someone because you think and hold them at gunpoint.

01:32:11.700 You also can't close down a business.

01:32:14.420 The mayor's office in Braddock, the sole duty is to be in charge of public safety and to

01:32:22.840 be there for council votes.

01:32:26.020 He's he missed the majority of council votes when he was mayor.

01:32:31.580 But I think it's also important to know that there's an Associated Press story that came

01:32:35.540 out today that says he's been in the he's missed a huge chunk of his duties as as lieutenant

01:32:44.480 governor.

01:32:44.940 And that was before his stroke.

01:32:47.280 Yeah, that's right.

01:32:48.080 So we don't expect the health issue.

01:32:49.680 But let's talk about the gubernatorial race.

01:32:52.120 Josh Shapiro, Democrat versus Doug Mastriano, Republican.

01:32:56.600 The Democrat is he's been polling way ahead.

01:33:00.840 But it's like that.

01:33:03.420 If he does crush, if Shapiro crushes Mastriano, that's really going to help Betterman.

01:33:08.460 You know, you know how it is.

01:33:09.300 You get to the poll and you just go DDD all down the line or RRR all down the line.

01:33:13.820 It's very rare that you would switch it up or even think to switch it up unless you have

01:33:18.480 really strong feelings about one person on the on the ticket.

01:33:21.360 So how does that factor in?

01:33:23.380 Well, actually, Pennsylvania has a great history of of splitting our tickets.

01:33:29.560 I mean, we split our ticket between Al Gore and Rick Santorum.

01:33:32.620 Yeah.

01:33:33.460 But also, wow.

01:33:35.100 Which is, you know, just think about that for a while.

01:33:38.040 But we also split our vote in 2020.

01:33:41.740 Joe Biden won narrowly, but he won.

01:33:44.640 But you look at every race down ballot, two statewide row offices, all the state House

01:33:50.260 seats, all the state Senate seats, not all of them.

01:33:53.060 But Republicans won seats they weren't even trying to win in the state House, in the state

01:33:59.040 Senate.

01:33:59.340 They had no money for those statewide row offices.

01:34:02.020 And yet they won in a very big way over the well-funded by Bloomberg Democrats and Eric

01:34:08.460 Holder.

01:34:09.260 And they also kept two House seats in in in Dauphin County and in Bucks County that they were projected

01:34:16.520 to lose by six points.

01:34:17.980 We that's amazing.

01:34:20.900 So you you agree that Mastriano is likely to go down, but you like if you had to put money

01:34:26.260 on on Oz versus Fetterman, who would you choose?

01:34:31.140 I think that if you ask me today how it and if it is how of an end today, I would say Josh

01:34:37.720 Shapiro wins by eight percentage points and that Dr. Oz wins by about two.

01:34:43.200 Wow.

01:34:44.940 And do you think the debate will actually happen?

01:34:48.880 I don't know.

01:34:50.360 I go back and forth on that.

01:34:52.580 I mean, it's got to happen.

01:34:54.520 But I see if you're Fetterman in his camp, you're like, hell no, we're still ahead.

01:35:00.340 This can only hurt us.

01:35:02.360 Let's blame the rules.

01:35:03.340 Let's blame anything we can.

01:35:04.440 But do not debate.

01:35:05.780 I agree.

01:35:06.280 I think that's their mindset.

01:35:08.940 And what do they got to lose?

01:35:10.780 They got more to lose by doing a debate.

01:35:13.200 That's right.

01:35:13.800 And that more to lose potentially by releasing his medical results.

01:35:16.760 The people of Pennsylvania are the ones who are going to have to insist on both.

01:35:21.020 Selena Zito will keep us updated.

01:35:23.120 Thank you so much for coming on.

01:35:24.500 Thanks so much.

01:35:25.320 If people want to find my stuff, just go to SelenaZito.com.

01:35:28.800 It's free.

01:35:29.320 It's fun.

01:35:29.720 And it's not fattening.

01:35:32.020 And it's factual.

01:35:33.460 OK, thank you.

01:35:34.360 I want to tell you that tomorrow we're super excited to have Tom Bauer on.

01:35:38.780 He's broken so many stories on the royal family.

01:35:40.600 He has written the book.

01:35:42.000 It's called Revenge on Meghan and Harry.

01:35:44.560 And this is his first time on the show.

01:35:46.040 I cannot wait to talk to him and reading his book.

01:35:48.140 There's a lot to go over.

01:35:50.000 They've been busy, this couple.

01:35:51.960 In the meantime, download The Meghan Kelly Show on Apple, Pandora, Spotify, and Stitcher.

01:35:55.180 Also go to YouTube.com slash Meghan Kelly.

01:35:57.000 And thanks for listening.

01:36:00.740 Thanks for listening to The Meghan Kelly Show.

01:36:02.620 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:36:12.000 I'm going to do this.

The Megyn Kelly Show - October 06, 2022

Dire Consequences of Biden's Policies, and Fetterman-Oz Deep Dive, with Charles C.W. Cooke and Salena Zito ｜ Ep. 406

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