The Megyn Kelly Show - Disastrous Biden Poll, and How Australia Cracks Down on Illegal Immigration, with Kmele Foster, Inez Stepman, and Paul Murray

00:00:00.500 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:12.380 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. It's Monday and there's a lot

00:00:17.480 happening. The U.S. Senate releases its nearly 400-page border security deal,

00:00:23.400 quote unquote, that would still allow for thousands to enter America illegally every day.

00:00:30.580 And NBC releases new polling showing former President Donald Trump dominating President

00:00:35.840 Biden on issues, and I do mean dominating, including the economy, the border, crime, and more.

00:00:41.640 Even the question of protecting democracy, the thing, you know, leading up to those 2022 midterms,

00:00:48.000 the Dems pushed two things, democracy and abortion. And it worked, as you know. Well,

00:00:53.480 guess what's happened on at least democracy? Now Biden only has a two-point lead. Used to be double

00:00:58.760 digits. Joining me now to discuss it all, Camille Foster of the Fifth Column Podcast and joining

00:01:04.360 this show for the very first time, Inez Stepman. Inez is a senior policy analyst at the Independent

00:01:10.100 Women's Forum and the host of her own podcast called High Noon. Camille, Inez, welcome. How

00:01:17.620 you doing? Very good. Awesome. Okay, so the big news is the border bill, so might as well start

00:01:23.520 with that. I, like, I'm drowning in a sea of negativity as the Republicans weigh in on it. I

00:01:30.900 mean, this is, like, we can talk about it, but it's dead. It's dead on arrival. They're not going

00:01:35.860 to get this thing through. Like, nobody seems to like it. It's like this one collection of senators

00:01:40.200 that was told to go talk. They came up with something. You know, Stephen Miller, Trump's

00:01:45.420 immigration guy, is all over Twitter today, or X saying, absolutely not, saying it's effective

00:01:51.160 amnesty. Josh Hawley, senator from Missouri, saying it basically legalizes child exploitation.

00:02:00.780 We could go on with the many, many problems, but one of the main things is it invests all sorts of

00:02:06.580 discretionary authority in Mayorkas to just kind of grant asylum. He can kind of just do it if he

00:02:12.580 thinks it ought to be done with his magic wand, is how it sounds, and there's not much anybody can do

00:02:17.860 about it, which is effective amnesty. There's, I don't know how much time we should spend because

00:02:22.360 it's DOA. Camille, what are your thoughts? I'm inclined to agree with you. Certainly a piece

00:02:27.280 of legislation that you take all of this time crafting and developing in back rooms only to have

00:02:31.940 it arrive in a circumstance that makes it seem as though this isn't going to go anywhere is pretty

00:02:36.840 frustrating. And the thing I keep thinking about as I've been contemplating this this morning is

00:02:41.780 how we got here. You know, we've had consecutive presidential administrations who insisted they

00:02:48.120 were going to take care of this problem, that they were going to fix immigration. I remember Barack

00:02:51.720 Obama in particular coming into office, having both houses of Congress promising that he was going

00:02:56.580 to address this issue. And it's extraordinary just how broken the system is at this point. There's

00:03:02.700 the actual infrastructure along the border, but there's also, you know, just the policy framework,

00:03:08.400 the actual process for allowing people to come into the country legally. I mean, it is all a complete

00:03:13.880 shambles. And it's pretty frustrating to imagine that we have what at this point is an undeniable

00:03:20.300 crisis on the southern border that is having real ramifications in American cities and in American,

00:03:25.020 in the American people's lives every single day. And there just doesn't seem to be any real appetite

00:03:30.760 to resolving it. No, there isn't even Biden's appetite, if it exists, and as is politically

00:03:37.280 motivated by the fact that this has become a number one issue, or at least a number two among Democrats.

00:03:42.820 So he's got to look like he cares. But I am convinced that no matter what, even if he were to shut down

00:03:48.880 the border entirely and implement all Trump policies tomorrow, which he could, but he won't.

00:03:53.860 They're still not going to buy it, because at this point, we're so close to the end.

00:03:58.720 The Democrats know, too, he doesn't care. He likes open borders.

00:04:04.040 Yeah, I mean, I really agree with Camille that this is a problem that has been administration

00:04:08.360 after administration after administration. I would even push it back beyond Obama. Think about

00:04:12.620 the first real revolt before the Tea Party, before the Trump populist revolt,

00:04:17.600 was against George W. Bush for pushing comprehensive immigration reform.

00:04:21.040 You know, this issue comes to the top of every poll, not just now. You're pointing out that

00:04:26.220 it's coming to the top even for Democrats. But this issue consistently, decade after decade,

00:04:31.320 comes to the top of every poll, issue poll, usually just behind the economy or maybe some

00:04:36.620 other issue that's bubbling up at that particular moment. But the immigration is consistent because

00:04:41.100 it's something that people interact with on a daily basis, especially in the border states,

00:04:45.640 but now really across the country. And it's sort of orthogonal to our politics in that it doesn't

00:04:50.360 take up nearly as much space in our debates day to day. So that for that reason, I'm really glad to

00:04:55.780 see the spotlight, you know, coming on this issue, even though it comes to the expense of a crisis in

00:05:01.160 this case. But it really is the result of decades of mismanagement. Yes, our asylum law needs to be

00:05:06.660 reformed. No, you know, Biden doesn't need special powers granted by this bill to close the border.

00:05:11.320 And but furthermore, you know, we have we have the Flores settlement. We have, you know,

00:05:15.980 the courts entangled in this issue. We have decades and decades and decades of it basically being

00:05:21.240 better for the political class not to address this issue when Americans are telling them, you know,

00:05:26.340 all the way back since Ross Perot, this is a problem. So, you know, I really think this this

00:05:31.380 political gambit to start sending migrants to the blue cities, I don't like it. It's down the street

00:05:35.340 for me now. I'm not saying it's bad for me personally, but I think it has been the most politically

00:05:40.040 successful gambit. And I think it's probably responsible for that poll that you just cited

00:05:43.760 as people actually interacting with this problem in the same way, Texas, Arizona and all the border

00:05:48.740 states have had to for decades. Yeah, it was truly one of the most brilliant moves if they if they did

00:05:53.820 like the Time magazine year of the move political or political move of the year. This would have to

00:05:59.160 be it. I mean, it's really made people feel the crisis in an acute way. And before it was just Texas's

00:06:04.260 problem. Oh, well, just Texas is going to have to deal with it. And now it's no, you're going to deal

00:06:07.820 with it. Your kids are going to miss school. They're going to get kicked out. Migrants and crime

00:06:10.720 is coming to a neighborhood near you. And on it goes. All right. We're going to do much more on

00:06:15.400 immigration. Our second hour, my pal, Paul Murray of Sky News, Australia, he's an Aussie born and

00:06:19.980 raised is going to talk to us a bit more about this and something I've been wanting to get to for a long

00:06:25.300 time, which is how they do it in Australia. I mean, in Australia, it's a hard. No, you try to get into

00:06:31.820 Australia as an illegal. Good luck to you, sir. They're going to put you in a detention facility

00:06:39.100 outside of the country where you may sit for a decade with like prison like conditions and no

00:06:47.400 one gives a shit about you, honestly. And guess what? They have a very small illegal immigration

00:06:52.220 problem in Australia. As a result, it's amazing how that deterrence works. So we'll get into it a

00:06:58.140 little bit more. OK, but there's a lot to get to domestically here outside of immigration,

00:07:02.080 and that includes this latest poll showing Trump v. Biden and this NBC poll. I just want to tell

00:07:08.160 you something. So NBC has been polling, been polling Trump v. Biden for years now, at least

00:07:14.020 since 2019. See how they do. This is when Trump was still president. October 2019, Biden plus nine.

00:07:20.560 August 2020, Biden plus nine. October 2020, a month before Election Day, Biden plus 14.

00:07:27.200 June 2023. Now we're well into the Biden presidency. Biden plus four. November 2023, this past November.

00:07:36.560 Trump plus two. January 2024. Trump plus five. That's where we are today. Trump plus five. And the reasons

00:07:47.380 are the economy. Trump has a plus 22 percentage point margin over Biden, 55 to 33. Note that poll was taken

00:07:57.120 amidst positive economic reports, including consumer confidence up and the 300,000 jobs created last

00:08:04.220 month. So it was taken during and after that. The border. Trump plus 35. Crime. Trump plus 21. These

00:08:15.100 numbers are absolutely devastating. And if nothing else changes between now and next November,

00:08:19.880 Trump will win the election. Yeah. I mean, Democrats really have to be kicking themselves

00:08:27.840 at this point. I mean, I, I, I trying to understand how you get to the point where Joe Biden is going

00:08:33.540 to be your, your guy again for another, for another go round considering his age, but also just considering

00:08:40.080 the perception of this particular presidency, which is, I think generally regarded as a bit feckless on the

00:08:45.320 issues that matter. We just talked about immigration. A lot of the American people are simply not

00:08:49.960 satisfied with what's happening. Democrats are not satisfied with what's happening. Um, when they

00:08:53.980 think about the person who's likely to, to succeed him, if something were to happen to him while he's

00:08:58.720 in office and given the age of these two candidates, it's not an impossibility. No one is particularly

00:09:04.480 impressed with her. Um, there was a period of time here where they might've been able to find someone

00:09:09.700 different. Um, they didn't do that and now appear to be completely stuck with a candidate that cannot

00:09:15.480 move the needle, even when the news seems to be moving in his particular direction. Um, and just

00:09:21.260 given the vicissitudes of the election, I have to suspect that this is, this is probably going to get

00:09:27.460 worse for the Biden administration in a lot of ways. And I think if it were anyone, but Trump that he

00:09:33.120 were up against, he might have, uh, uh, uh, an even more difficult go. The reality, however, is that

00:09:39.200 Donald Trump has his own pretty dicey situation from a legal standpoint and various other ways

00:09:44.380 that, that may in fact come in and take away the advantage that I suspect plenty of other Republican

00:09:51.160 candidates might have, um, versus this particular white house. His, his own dicey situation. You are

00:09:56.720 the master of understatement, my friend. Thank you. Very well done. He's got a few dicey situations

00:10:01.720 over there. Trump does. Um, it is interesting. Once again, Haley polls better than Trump versus

00:10:06.980 Biden. She's up nine over Biden, 45 for Haley, 36 for Biden and Trump's up, as I said, five over

00:10:14.640 Biden. Uh, but that doesn't get you very far if Republicans don't want you, you know, you got to

00:10:20.000 that's exactly right. Yeah. You've got to be able to talk the language that the base is going to

00:10:23.180 understand. And Republicans have at this point made it pretty clear that they prefer Donald Trump

00:10:27.560 to anyone else who's been out in the field. Um, and if that's where it is, there's not a great

00:10:33.080 deal that you can do about that again, unless something changes so profoundly that he simply

00:10:37.140 cannot run. Okay. And, and it might, I mean, that's, let's be honest with Biden. That really

00:10:42.360 is potentially true. And even with Trump, that is both men. It's potentially true. So in as these

00:10:48.000 percentage point advantages on the economy, on immigration, on crime are huge. I mean,

00:10:54.080 double digits is being at the border plus 35 plus 35, it's 57 to 22 in terms of the approval ratings

00:11:03.420 for these two men. And the border, as we just discussed is moving up in importance with Democrats

00:11:09.500 too. And independence too. It's always been one or two with Republicans pretty much always second

00:11:14.280 to the economy. And, um, in some instances now we're seeing number one. So my feeling is,

00:11:20.380 because I say in that last question, if nothing else changes, Trump's going to win. Okay. That's

00:11:25.380 nice. But we're nine months out now and things do change in an election year. However, this much

00:11:31.220 the economy, even with the better numbers we're getting, you think it's going to change so much

00:11:36.020 that he's going to close a 22 percentage point gap that he's going to close a 35 percentage point

00:11:42.060 gap on the border. Thanks to a deal that we all know is not happening, right? Like it just,

00:11:46.740 to me today, it feels insurmountable. Yeah. And that's really all we can do. As you point out,

00:11:52.800 we can't predict blocks, black swan events. Um, but I think Trump has a really good case. And that

00:11:57.460 case is, were you better off in 2019 than you are now, um, laying aside the pandemic 2020, I mean,

00:12:04.180 and, and the, the rioting in 2020, January 6th, all of those things. Right. Um, but for the first

00:12:09.980 three years of his administration, people made more money. And for the first time we saw, uh,

00:12:14.860 that boom actually, uh, you know, extend to blue collar Americans, right. To working class

00:12:19.480 Americans. Um, he, he has a really good case. He actually did start to address the totally open

00:12:25.200 border. Although again, I'll point out from the last segment, there was a limited amount that even

00:12:29.120 the Trump administration could do because our system itself is so broken and has been so broken

00:12:33.740 for decades. Um, but that that's really the fundamental Trump case. And I think, uh, it goes

00:12:38.840 up against the fundamental Biden case, which I think is, is just way weaker this time around than it

00:12:43.440 was in 2020 because in 2020, as much as, you know, those of us who fall have followed Joe Biden over

00:12:49.060 a longer period of time and thought that it was a crazy case to make, he was supposed to be the

00:12:53.120 adult in the room, right? He was, his case was let's return to normalcy. Well, looking back over

00:12:59.120 the Joe Biden presidency for the last three years, it's really hard to do. You can say a lot of things

00:13:03.220 about the Joe Biden presidency, but it has not been a return to normalcy. And I feel like that actually

00:13:08.260 strikes at the heart of his case much more than what Camille called, uh, diciness, um, strikes at

00:13:13.540 the heart of Trump's. You know what though? I have to challenge you on the fact that, uh, you know,

00:13:17.820 the suggestion that no president has really done much Donald Trump. Yes, he could have done more

00:13:21.340 because he controlled both houses of Congress and the white house. But in 2020, it was something

00:13:25.980 like 400,000 came into the country illegally. The encounters 400. Now we're at almost 3 million.

00:13:32.160 It's, it's absurd. Like there actually are a lot of things you can do and that he did. Could he have

00:13:37.340 done more? Yes. Could we have a wall? Hello? Yes. You know, people have been pointing out that world,

00:13:42.120 the wall in Egypt. It's beautiful. It's the thing Trump led people to believe that we were going to

00:13:46.220 have here that we don't. So he does deserve credit for what he did on this issue. He didn't do it as

00:13:52.340 perfectly as he could have, or as well as he could have just ask Ann Coulter, but it's not fair to say

00:13:57.260 he's the same as W or Biden or anybody's, you know, other than himself, Stephen Miller's the guy.

00:14:04.860 Yeah. My, my critique is not actually of how the Trump administration handled the border. I think

00:14:09.960 they use the executive powers that they had within the, like the range of what they could do. But my,

00:14:15.260 my point is rather that we have decades of bad law in the immigration system. Our asylum law actually

00:14:21.760 does need to be reformed. We need to actually fund some of these structures that are designed to

00:14:26.320 process people. Yes. The Congress has to fund the wall, right? We had that huge fight in Trump

00:14:32.440 administration as to whether or not he could move monies from, you know, other pots. There's only

00:14:36.980 so much the executive can do. And now, yes, we can see the difference now between an executive who

00:14:41.600 wants to use all of the limited tools he has to try to slow down these crossings at the border,

00:14:48.160 these legal immigration crossings at the border. And we, between an administration that clearly doesn't

00:14:53.700 want to do that, is in fact going to go so far as to go down in Texas and actually cut razor wire

00:14:59.440 in order to prevent Texas from stopping people from coming across that border. So I'm not

00:15:04.040 downplaying that difference at all. All I'm saying is that this is, this is not a new issue and there

00:15:09.200 are structural legal reasons why the U S immigration system has provided the incentives around the world

00:15:15.620 that it has and no single administration right now. Um, even Donald Trump, who I'm again, nobody could

00:15:22.020 accuse Donald Trump of not wanting to enforce the border. Um, but even under him, you know, yes,

00:15:26.840 the crisis was lesser, but don't forget, we had those caravans under Donald Trump. We had,

00:15:31.400 you know, millions of border crossings under the Trump administration. Um, so yes, it was better

00:15:35.960 because he did the best he could with the tools in front of him. But that's really what I want to

00:15:40.360 highlight is immigration in this country, uh, has been broken for, for decades and it does require

00:15:46.000 a seriousness about the most basic national sovereignty. Biden had control of both houses in

00:15:52.380 the white house. Trump had control of both houses in the white house. They didn't do it. They did like,

00:15:56.620 there could be a law passed. There could be more funding for asylum, you know, claims to be

00:16:00.920 processed. It's all bullshit because most of the asylum seekers are not seeking asylum. It's a lie.

00:16:06.820 They could have sought asylum in Mexico. They went right through Mexico because they want to be here.

00:16:12.960 They want to go to Lowe's theater and watch our movies. They don't want to actually,

00:16:17.180 but they want their government check. They want, you know, a driver's license. They want to do all the

00:16:21.760 things that American citizens without doing any of the things that people who immigrated here legally

00:16:26.240 and jumped through all the hoops had to do. It's not about bullshit asylum claims, except for a very

00:16:31.560 small number. And those people should be processed and we should figure out who genuinely needs our,

00:16:36.660 needs our help and shares our values. But we don't do any of that. And now they want to give

00:16:41.080 Mayorkas a magic wand to say, I deem ye asylum seekers. Welcome to America. That's not how it works.

00:16:47.340 Okay. Pausing there. Protecting democracy, democracy by now, which is a plus two percentage

00:16:54.580 point margin. Now, what's interesting about this is this is, there are some Republicans who care

00:17:02.560 about this issue for sure, but this is a Democrat issue, Camille, you know, protecting democracy and

00:17:07.840 the Democrats were winning thanks to Jan 6th. Like they were winning and they were winning big on this

00:17:14.280 issue. Um, as recently as the summer of 2021 and summer of 2022, I remember like following it in

00:17:20.620 the summers. And I would submit to you that the reason it's now almost tied is the criminal prosecutions

00:17:28.840 against Trump. I think that's entirely possible. It's certainly for me, one of the things that I

00:17:36.060 find most striking about the present moment, when you hear people say openly, you know, if Donald Trump

00:17:41.500 wins, he's going to use the justice department to go after his political enemies. And I think to

00:17:45.740 myself, you know, it's kind of odd, but the guy is facing multiple criminal prosecutions, some of

00:17:51.940 which are far more dubious than others. I think the documents case in Florida, for example, um, is,

00:17:57.480 uh, is disconcerting for him and probably the most difficult one that he faces. But a lot of these

00:18:03.760 other things, the, the, the odd, um, case in New York, where he is apparently being prosecuted for

00:18:10.440 defrauding companies that he actually paid back the money on time because the paperwork isn't quite

00:18:16.480 the way it ought to have been like this civil matters, but outrageous, openly political. Um,

00:18:23.000 the, the, this it's, it's very hard. I think for anyone who takes, um, democracy seriously,

00:18:29.440 who for anyone who takes the rule of law very seriously and expects impartiality with respect

00:18:33.940 to the way that justice is delivered, um, to look at this and say, Oh yeah, this is, this is totally

00:18:38.540 above board. This is completely fine. Um, I think Donald Trump as a president, perhaps as a human

00:18:44.240 has plenty of defects and things that are worth being concerned about. He, had he been a bit more

00:18:48.940 careful, almost certainly wouldn't be facing some of these prosecutions. Um, but others on the other

00:18:53.780 hand, like are far more dubious. And I do think it weakens your overall case. If you want to talk

00:18:59.280 about, um, the, the protecting democracy, whatever that means as your fundamental case against the

00:19:05.180 opponent, um, it's, it's a bit hard to do against that backdrop. And I don't know how many Americans

00:19:10.480 are keying into that, but it's certainly not something that's lost on me. That's the irony

00:19:14.880 and as is, uh, obviously they've tried to get them bounced off of several ballots as well.

00:19:19.720 We talk about depriving democracy, right? Um, that's failing and it's going to go up to the Supreme

00:19:24.620 court and it's going to remain a total failure is my prediction once the Supreme court has the final

00:19:28.300 say on these nonsense efforts to get him booted because of insurrection. But the irony of this

00:19:33.380 whole thing is that the Democrats in order to bring a political advantage, uh, to what he did

00:19:38.320 on J six and leading up to J six and denying that he had lost are themselves compromising their

00:19:44.820 democratic principles in doing things we've never done before by growing, going after someone

00:19:49.400 criminally trying to get them bounced off the ballot, you know, in a way that we've never done

00:19:53.400 before in the history of the union, all those things undermine them as the democratic champions

00:19:58.560 while they try desperately to bring, bring attention to what they think is a good electoral

00:20:03.640 issue for them, which is his undermining of democracy. It's a, it's a kamikaze mission.

00:20:10.080 In, in so many ways, that's the story of Donald Trump all the way back from 2015, right? Um, it,

00:20:16.100 it is this response from the supposedly, uh, the institutional mechanisms of democracy, uh, in,

00:20:23.220 in which Americans once had a lot more trust than they do, um, reacting, essentially these

00:20:29.160 institutions reacted to Donald Trump and the American people, you know, pulling out a wild card

00:20:33.120 and picking Donald Trump reality TV star, um, to go and change things in Washington. The way in which

00:20:39.060 they've reacted has been so illegitimate that it really bolsters Trump's case. Trump's best case

00:20:45.220 is that they don't want, they right. Being all of these institutions in Washington don't want you

00:20:51.140 to be able to vote for me because I am going to bring actual change to not only to immigration

00:20:56.560 on the economy, but fundamentally, I'm going to flip this relation between, uh, the, the people

00:21:02.280 and the elites in Washington. And that has been his case. And I'm, I'm not here to say that he's done

00:21:07.220 the best, you know, he's sort of, um, argued that case the best he could in his actions and his words,

00:21:12.240 uh, but they keep legitimating that case, right? He says, they're coming after me in an illegitimate

00:21:17.240 way. And then you look at some of the cases that have been filed as Camille says, I think the

00:21:21.700 documents case is probably the strongest one. Although I think that it's very, very unwise

00:21:26.380 again, to overturn 250 years of norms of not prosecuting your political opposition over what

00:21:33.500 is essentially documents dispute. Uh, but that has the most legitimacy legally. Some of these other

00:21:38.260 cases, right, that we've been making, you've covered these extensively on your show. Um,

00:21:42.080 they're illegitimate and they're clearly politics in the guise of law. And that entire case for quote

00:21:48.980 unquote, our democracy, um, relies on the legitimacy of the people and the institutions that are making

00:21:54.760 it. And they're losing that legitimacy fast. This is, that's why I think this issue is flipping for

00:21:58.940 Donald Trump. It's because the people going after him seem less legitimate than he is.

00:22:02.740 And you know, what's interesting guys is that it now looks like the very first and possibly the only

00:22:08.600 trial that's going to take place between now and November is the stormy Daniels hush money payment

00:22:14.420 BS case in New York. Uh, the, the one that was being fast tracked was the, um, January 6th federal

00:22:23.580 prosecution in DC in front of judge Chutkin, who's not a Trump fan prosecuted by Jack Smith,

00:22:29.260 former, uh, now, you know, a federal prosecution. Um, that's now off track. It was supposed to start

00:22:35.120 March 6th. It's, it's officially been postponed now with no new date because he argued that a

00:22:42.000 president should have immunity for the acts that he takes criminal immunity, um, for acts that he

00:22:46.880 takes while president. And that case is working its way up through the appellate courts and up to

00:22:50.680 the Supreme court probably potentially. And so she can't try the case yet. So she was forced to

00:22:56.360 postpone it and actually indicated to counsel that just because I postponed it does not mean that

00:23:02.020 when, and if we get it back, you know, if, if the court says you don't have immunity, you got to go

00:23:06.580 sit for trial. I'm not fast tracking it when it gets back to me, I'm not going to like put the pedal

00:23:11.580 to the metal and make sure all the motions get heard super fast so that we can get a resolution

00:23:14.960 of this case quickly. That's an interesting promise because it makes her look less political

00:23:20.880 and better. And it's the right thing to do as well. There's no reason for an expedited treatment

00:23:26.200 of this case other than politics. So yada, yada, it looks to me very much like that case not going

00:23:32.420 to go off before November. Cause think about it. Let's say it's all resolved by July because SCOTUS

00:23:38.260 goes on vacation at the end of June. Um, she's not going to want to start this case in August while

00:23:44.000 the Republican national conventions going on, they're officially probably naming Trump the nominee

00:23:50.040 and now we have three months to go, you know, before the actual, that's truly election interference.

00:23:56.540 So I think that one doesn't make it. I've long said, I don't think the one down in Florida,

00:24:00.480 the most problematic one on the documents is going to make it. There's too much to decide

00:24:03.960 when it comes to classified info. What can the jury see? What can they not see? What are the

00:24:07.260 clearances we need? How long is that going to take? We have to investigate each juror.

00:24:10.600 We haven't even chosen jurors. All that stuff needs to happen. And that leaves us with the

00:24:17.640 Georgia prosecution, which y'all know is in serious jeopardy thanks to the sex life of the

00:24:23.100 prosecutor. It's not exactly correct. Oh, Fannie. Yeah, Fannie. And then New York. So New York

00:24:32.600 is pedal to the metal. Alvin Bragg, you know, they, they want Trump and they are going to. And so Camille,

00:24:40.040 the thing about that is that's the best case scenario for Trump. It's the most BS case. It basically says

00:24:46.780 you paid off a porn star to not tell anybody about your alleged affair. And then you fail to write

00:24:52.480 down in your company ledger, paid off porn star to make sure she didn't tell anybody about our alleged

00:24:57.920 affair, which is not, as I understand it, how hush payments generally work. That's what he's being

00:25:04.160 prosecuted for. I mean, we've been through this before. Like everyone knows the ins and outs of

00:25:09.560 that situation to the extent they care about it at all. This prosecution has zero consequence. And it's

00:25:15.060 funny that the volume of cases against him may actually work in his favor. I don't know that

00:25:20.040 most people can differentiate between these different cases in these different venues with

00:25:23.440 these different judges and the different lawyers. It all just begins to look like the same ridiculous

00:25:28.720 thing. And if it doesn't have any ramifications, like him actually going to jail, then I don't think

00:25:34.940 most people will actually care. And it's funny, Megan, as you were talking earlier, I'm remembering

00:25:39.400 the conversation I had with my mom, who is a staunch Democrat, who has never had a polite or kind

00:25:44.200 thing to say about Donald Trump. But not too long ago, we're talking and she is just going on and

00:25:49.840 on about how unfair she thinks it is that he's being removed from various ballots. And I'm asking

00:25:55.100 her, so wait a minute, are you telling me you're going to vote for the guy? And she says, no,

00:25:58.140 I don't think so. But I don't like it. I don't like it. It just doesn't seem fair. It doesn't seem

00:26:02.780 right. Let people vote. And is that what's happening in most people's minds? Is my mother a bellwether

00:26:09.700 for the American voter? I don't know about that. I suspect probably not. But I think it matters.

00:26:14.860 It's consequential when someone who is so vehemently opposed to Donald Trump is willing

00:26:21.180 to acknowledge that this seems wrong. That's going to be a problem, I think, for plenty of people.

00:26:28.540 You've got people like Camille's mom. You've got people like me. I'm a registered independent.

00:26:34.140 I voted for Democrats in the past and Republicans, too. I'm open minded. I really want to see who a

00:26:39.580 person is, what their principles are and what their policies are. Independence going for Trump

00:26:44.420 right now, plus 19. And as honestly, you can't over if he brings home the Republican Party,

00:26:50.820 which he will, he's more acceptable to the Chamber of Commerce, National Review guys today

00:26:58.120 than he was in 15. Way more. They don't like him, but they've seen his policies. They will,

00:27:05.840 in the end, it being essentially a binary choice, come home for Trump. I'm very clear in my own mind

00:27:11.180 on that. And then he gets plus nine, plus 19 with independence. That's it. It's ballgame. And you

00:27:16.260 look at young people, Inez. This is the NBC poll. Young people, 18 to 34 year olds. You guys both know

00:27:22.120 as well as I do. That's a Democrat group. I mean, it just is like, it's not even, it's not,

00:27:27.300 it doesn't reflect the rest of the electorate in terms of percentages, Republican, Dem,

00:27:31.200 independent. They're all Democrats, almost all of them. Right now they're split. Trump 42,

00:27:37.300 Biden 42. My God, there's the whole thing is terrible news to the point where Kristen Welker

00:27:42.940 of NBC was talking about their own poll, talking about what a disaster this is for Donald Trump,

00:27:50.860 saying one of our pollsters tells us, not for Trump, for Biden, one of our pollsters tells us

00:27:54.840 we are looking at a quote, presidency in peril.

00:28:01.360 Yeah. I mean, I think that really does sum it up. Obviously, again, we always have to put in this

00:28:06.700 caveat. There's a lot that can happen. And in particular, these polls, only a small percentage

00:28:11.060 of them are factoring in the third and potentially fourth candidates that are going to be on the

00:28:15.500 ballot. And especially when you look at young people, I think some of that reluctance to say

00:28:21.480 that they're in favor of Biden may also be that they're coming at it from the left, right? He has

00:28:27.920 a lot of pressure on his left flank, which is also why I would expect between now and November,

00:28:32.680 some other illegitimate action on student loan debt, by the way, because that's what the Democrats

00:28:37.100 did to pull their irons out of the fire in the midterms was jazz up young people by putting

00:28:42.860 forward an obviously illegitimate and unconstitutional debt relief program for

00:28:49.420 students that was then smacked down by the Supreme Court as they knew it would be. But it did drive

00:28:54.560 young people to the polls. So I encourage everyone to look out for that because if there's one prediction

00:28:59.780 I'm comfortable making, it's that we'll see some kind of attempt from the Biden administration to move

00:29:04.760 on student loans before the election. Well, he already is, right? I mean, he's already trying

00:29:09.320 to backdoor a different form of relief for them. But I don't know. If you go to the polls on election

00:29:15.000 day, hoping that the young vote is going to take you over the top, don't bet on it. You know, unless

00:29:20.200 you're Barack Obama in 2008, it just it's not a good bet. Young people, they like to bitch and moan,

00:29:26.040 but they don't actually like to drag themselves to the polls on election day. The old people do. You'd

00:29:29.900 think it'd be exactly the opposite. They're old. They kind of want to drag themselves out, stand in the

00:29:33.960 weather. But they do it, you know, because they they're from yesteryear, a time where voting

00:29:38.080 mattered and America was loved no matter your partisan stripes. OK, so I will end with these

00:29:44.460 two points. Since Inez says, like, slow your roll a little and she's not wrong. There was a

00:29:50.900 poll just just the other day showing Biden with a six point lead over Trump. And these voters,

00:29:59.200 even though they're favoring Trump by a net of five percentage points, Camille, say if Trump is

00:30:03.820 convicted of a felony, it's a different story. Then Biden goes up. It's a seven point. No, it's a

00:30:09.380 yeah, it's a seven point swing. Instead of Biden being down five, he's up two over Trump. So,

00:30:15.320 you know, the Democrats may be willing to pay that temporary price of people thinking they're not

00:30:19.820 all that pro-democracy as they try to get him kicked off ballots and criminally prosecute him out of

00:30:25.520 either the nomination or the win. But if they can actually land the plane and secure a conviction,

00:30:31.940 they are being told by the electorate right now that will make the difference for us. Do you believe

00:30:36.540 it? I'm not sure. You know, I don't know what the consequence, for example, of the actual decision

00:30:43.520 with respect to the amount of money that he has to pay out in this most recent decision. Like, I'm not

00:30:48.620 sure that that factors into most people's thinking about this particular election. And again, it seems to

00:30:54.920 me that the things that might actually be really, really meaningful in most people's minds, it's the

00:31:00.800 international situation with these various conflicts that are happening around the world where we're

00:31:04.760 involved, which are particularly unpopular on the left, and that the president is insisting on being

00:31:09.400 involved in despite the fact that it's unpopular with his party. I don't expect it to get more popular

00:31:13.840 with his party. And I also don't expect those things to go away. They're complicated, intractable

00:31:19.220 conflicts that have been going on for decades in some cases, and have only just gotten a bit more hot.

00:31:23.840 That seems consequential. The economic situation seems pretty consequential. There are plenty of

00:31:30.140 things that might make a meaningful difference in the outcome of this election. And I just don't know

00:31:37.040 that any of these cases are going to get resolved quickly enough to work in favor of the Biden

00:31:42.780 administration. And I just, I have a real tough time believing convicted of not documenting your hush

00:31:49.880 money payment is going to make somebody vote in a way they think is bad for their pocketbook and bad

00:31:58.600 for the border and bad for their safety, which is the, these are the issues they're saying they care

00:32:03.880 about. Like he should have written down that hush money payment. God damn. Like I'm, I am voting

00:32:08.920 against him. I just can't convince myself there's that voter out there, or at least enough of them

00:32:16.440 to sway the election. So Joe Biden is a, he just released a campaign ad attacking Trump as the

00:32:27.640 confused one. He's trying to sort of take control, take back the issue of mental acuity in the following

00:32:34.980 ad. This is not Donald Trump of 2016, guys. What? What is, if he is off the teleprompter,

00:32:41.760 he can barely keep a cogent thought. I mean, that's just fact. We are an institute

00:32:45.940 and a powerful death penalty. We will put this on. I think he's declining. I stumbled and mumbled

00:32:52.220 purposely. I do speak in long, complex sentences. I'd have a lot of material in each sentence. Okay.

00:32:58.760 I mean, good luck with that. Um, anyone feel like this is going to turn the tables?

00:33:04.600 On, on Biden? On Trump? Absolutely not. I'm not going to take that bet. Yeah.

00:33:12.600 Okay, good. Just making sure. Uh, same. Having settled that, let's move on to my next topic,

00:33:17.700 which is SNL and Nikki Haley. I don't know exactly what audience she's courting. I don't know any

00:33:23.280 Republicans who are still watching SNL. And once again, she's running for the Republican primary

00:33:27.300 nomination. She's not, she's Nikki. You're not the general election candidate. I like you. You just

00:33:32.420 seem like a nice person, smart lady, but you have not secured the primary nomination. Now is not

00:33:39.500 the time. So she goes on SNL and I'm not sure this skit hurt Trump, but you take a look and tell me

00:33:47.100 stop five. My question is, why won't you debate Nikki Haley? Oh my God, it's her. The woman who

00:33:55.220 was in charge of security on January 6th. It's Nancy Pelosi. For the 100th time, that is not Nancy

00:34:04.400 Pelosi. It is Nikki Haley. Are you doing okay, Donald? You might need a mental competency test.

00:34:10.840 You know what I did? I took the test and I aced it. Okay. Perfect score. They said I'm a hundred

00:34:15.060 percent mental and you know, I'm confident because I'm a man. That's why a woman should

00:34:19.840 never run our economy. Women are terrible with money. In fact, a woman I know recently asked

00:34:24.900 me for $83.3 million. Nikki Haley, Joel Osment, we call her six cents. Remember that one? I see dead

00:34:30.920 people. Yeah. That's what voters will say if they see you and Joe on the ballot. Oh boy. The last thing

00:34:40.800 is pretty good, but here's part two where they brought up her recent. Oh, pa stumble, whatever.

00:34:50.800 It was a dumb ass answer when she gave it. She tried to clean it up here. Sot six.

00:34:54.180 I was just curious. What would you say was the main cause of the civil war? Um, and do you think

00:35:01.540 it starts with an S and ends with a lavery? Yep. I probably should have said that the first time

00:35:08.300 and live from New York. It's Saturday night. I like, I've got serious questions about whether

00:35:15.920 this is a good idea. I really do. What, what, what's next? The daily show. Why don't you swing by

00:35:20.460 there? How about Scarborough? Tiptoe through those two lips, Rachel Maddow, um, Joy Reed. Why don't

00:35:26.760 she, why don't she go on her show? Like I don't get it, Camille. I, I like the, uh, Vivek Ramaswamy

00:35:32.940 philosophy. It was like, of like going everywhere and trying to get as many votes as you can. Just not

00:35:37.000 sure SNL is one of the venues where there's any potential votes available. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm

00:35:42.860 inclined to agree with you. Um, I do think it is a good idea to go wherever you can find,

00:35:46.780 find an interesting audience, if not a friendly audience to try and talk to. Um, but these do not

00:35:52.380 seem like the kind of places that are actually going to help you with Republican voters, which

00:35:55.720 is the principal concern, or at least ought to be the principal concern. If that's what you're,

00:35:59.860 if you want to try to win them over. Um, but maybe that's not what she's doing. Maybe she's playing a

00:36:04.900 long game here, wants to continue to try to make herself as palatable as possible to independence and

00:36:09.960 to Democrats, um, in the event that something happens that makes it impossible for Donald Trump to run.

00:36:15.900 She's, she's perhaps there around, um, and people still have fond feelings about her. Um, but I

00:36:22.820 don't know that that appearance is going to make the difference for her. Well, it is true. And as

00:36:27.220 that if she keeps her popularity up beyond the Republican electorate with independence, with

00:36:32.360 Democrats, maybe it's a VP play, you know, maybe she's making herself look shinier and more attractive

00:36:39.400 as is number two, because, you know, you don't want to do any harm in choosing a VP. And if you could

00:36:44.600 actually do some help in getting yourself across the finish line, especially if you don't make it, you're

00:36:49.320 going to be prosecuted to the end by two federal prosecutions. So you really need to win. I don't, maybe

00:36:55.920 it's a play towards burnishing those credentials. I mean, maybe in Donald Trump has, you know, as, as

00:37:02.240 personally as he seems to take a lot of things, um, he does forgive people as long as they come back and

00:37:07.420 kiss the ring in a, in a self humiliating way. He has a history of doing that. Um, so maybe that is

00:37:12.720 the place she's going for. I do want to make a distinction because I agree with you, Megan. I

00:37:16.880 think it's great, um, for, you know, conservatives, for Republicans to go into hostile territory and

00:37:21.580 argue their point to an audience that hasn't heard it before. Um, too often what we see is, I think it's,

00:37:27.280 is completely on display in this SNL, uh, episode is the Republicans who go into hostile media

00:37:33.620 or go into left-wing media. They go into it just to sort of yuck it up at their own base. And in

00:37:39.060 this case at Donald Trump, um, and so that we see Republicans essentially ingratiating themselves to

00:37:44.580 a liberal media, to liberal hosts, um, and, and trying, they're not really bringing Nikki Haley

00:37:49.260 isn't really bringing a conservative message to SNL. She's become a prop in allowing SNL to hit

00:37:55.460 Donald Trump. And I think Republican voters are really sensitive to that. And I don't think this

00:37:59.340 is going to help her at all. It's a very good point. I mean, you're again,

00:38:03.620 trying to win over Republicans. Did they like SNL better or do they like Donald Trump better?

00:38:09.060 And by the way, the woman who was asking her the question about, does it start with S and end in

00:38:13.540 lavery is some democratic socialist of America. She's one of these hardcore activists. It's like,

00:38:20.360 okay, good job helping her advance her agenda. Not so sure you did a great job of advancing

00:38:25.640 the agenda of Republicans. Um, separately, by the way, Shane Gillis, you know, comedian Shane,

00:38:32.420 Shane Gillis, he's going to host SNL February 24th after SNL fired him before it actually hired him

00:38:38.260 back in 2019, because they said back then he was a racist. He was inappropriate. He had made

00:38:43.540 jokes about Asians that they found deeply, deeply offensive, but I guess

00:38:47.300 four years have passed and he's no longer offensive. I don't like, I'm not sure. And I'm

00:38:52.060 actually not sure what he's doing either because, um, not only is he going on SNL, but he's partnering

00:38:57.000 with Bud Light, which is basically a slur in Republican circles. He went from doing slurs,

00:39:03.640 the left finds upsetting to, to issuing one out of his mouth, the right finds upsetting,

00:39:08.200 which is Bud Light. Camille, what do you make of that?

00:39:11.180 Well, I think, well, first with the SNL thing, I mean, this has got to be one of the more remarkable

00:39:15.320 things that I've seen like in our culture in a very long time, you know, cancel culture being what

00:39:19.860 it is certainly a thing, whether or not you, you like that name. Um, it's remarkable to see him

00:39:25.500 going back to this place, being the center of attention, um, and having the opportunity to,

00:39:31.060 to just kind of dominate an episode of SNL, um, before he didn't even get to appear on any of

00:39:37.540 them. Um, so that's pretty cool to see, um, the, the Bud Light thing. I mean, he is, it's clear that

00:39:43.620 Bud Light wants to try to shake off the reputation that they've developed for themselves. Um, and they,

00:39:49.860 I imagine that Shane can help them with that. Shane, I'm sure is happy to take the check and

00:39:54.180 will be interesting and funny and smart. Yeah. In, in these particular ads. So, you know, will that

00:39:59.700 work for him? I imagine it will probably won't hurt him at all. Will it help Bud Light? I don't

00:40:03.700 know. Uh, but it certainly won't be worse for them than the last spokesperson who they hired.

00:40:10.060 Yeah, right. Exactly. As I see these, you know, these celebrities bend the knee to Bud Light. What

00:40:17.420 all I can see is money pay, right? You have UFC, right? It was, um, what's his name? Dana White

00:40:23.620 was paid a hundred million dollars a year, a year to kiss the ring, uh, and take Bud Light back into

00:40:30.400 his stadiums and his, uh, UFC matches. Kid Rock is very aligned with them. I don't know what money,

00:40:37.040 if any transferred there, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear there was an endorsement deal

00:40:40.660 of some sort where he got paid. Shane Gillis is getting paid and it's up to conservative audiences

00:40:46.320 who are deeply offended, not just by them hiring Dilly or whatever, partnering with Dylan Mulvaney,

00:40:51.160 but saying the audience was too fratty and then never apologizing, never too afraid of the trans

00:40:56.400 lobby to actually own the mistake and just say, we're really sorry. That was really offensive.

00:41:00.260 We screwed up. They've never said that never because they're too beholden to the trans lobby

00:41:04.860 and not enough to their core customer base. Does it persuade you? Will you go buy Bud Light because

00:41:10.080 they gave a hundred million dollars to Dana White? Does that help your life? Will you go buy Bud Light

00:41:14.600 because Shane Gillis got paid a bunch of money to go speak for them? Does that help your life? Okay.

00:41:19.300 That people are going to have to make that decision. Um, I know where I fall. Okay. So moving on,

00:41:25.300 I have got to ask you and as about one of my favorite stories as we went to the weekend and I saw you

00:41:30.100 tweet about it too, post on X, whatever the Connecticut public school that pursuant to Connecticut

00:41:37.760 state law posted a tampon dispenser in the boys room. And how long did it take for the boys to react?

00:41:48.580 And why don't you tell us what they did? Well, the boys were boys. Uh, the boys will be boys. Um,

00:41:55.700 I think this is really a cute story of, of a sort of boys revolt. Um, I think there's a larger context

00:42:01.820 to it, um, even globally, let alone, uh, just this little, little town in Connecticut. But yeah,

00:42:07.120 so they, they ripped the, the, the tampons out. I mean, honestly, I'm, I'm shocked that they didn't

00:42:11.720 just flush hundreds of them into the toilet and cause a problem. I mean, these are little,

00:42:15.820 you know, these are the boys we're talking about. They're 10 year old, 13 year old boys.

00:42:20.840 It's like they knew that there'd be TV pictures of it. That's an amazing picture right there. Good for

00:42:24.940 you boys. It took them less than 20 minutes. They ripped it right out of the wall by the studs. It was down to

00:42:30.920 the studs. No, but I do think there's, there's sort of a deeper context here. And we see this,

00:42:37.760 um, this is now in polling, showing up in country after country, after country. And when you pull

00:42:43.460 young people, um, of both sexes, you see that young women are turning very, very, very sharply to the

00:42:50.460 left and boys, um, sometimes in some countries, a little more in some countries, a little less,

00:42:54.980 but are trending more conservative. We're seeing that gap really open up between essentially young

00:43:00.480 women and young men on politics. Um, I think that's, that's, uh, has a lot of worrying,

00:43:05.720 maybe potential consequences for our ability to, you know, settle down, have families, love each

00:43:10.760 other, um, you know, really learn from each other, men and women, um, in a complimentary way. However,

00:43:16.740 I do think we're going to see more revolt of the boys. I think we're going to see a lot more

00:43:20.860 young boys and then into young men, um, really revolting against a, a stifling culture that,

00:43:27.780 that, uh, you know, controversially you could say is long house or, uh, matriarchal. Right. And,

00:43:32.760 and they just, they just want to rip those tampons off the,

00:43:35.680 off the bathroom. These boys are starting to feel our pain, you know, as, as upsetting as it might be

00:43:40.680 to see a tampon dispenser in your bathroom. Why don't you see what it's like to see a penis in your

00:43:45.180 little girl's locker room? That's what, that's what the girls are having to experience is bad

00:43:49.360 enough to see a tampon dispenser. I get it. I have two boys. Try seeing an adult male penis coming at

00:43:54.320 you in the locker room. Like our friends up in Canada where they're swimming against some 50 year

00:43:58.240 old dude who goes by melody wise heart and is changing in front of the girls. It's these are

00:44:03.860 barrier breakers that matter that are important. They're significant culturally. They can be jarring to

00:44:08.840 the young person. And I say, good on you boys in Brookfield, Connecticut. I'm cheering

00:44:15.120 you on. And you know what I hope I realized that your superintendent is beside himself.

00:44:19.600 The principal Mark Ballada said the dispenser, it was installed at nine 30 Wednesday morning.

00:44:25.460 And by nine 52 tampons were on the floor of the newly installed distribution box was ripped off the

00:44:29.700 wall along with the masonry anchors and the distribution box itself was destroyed. But he

00:44:34.560 says we will reinstall the box in the boys bathroom per state law. I say to you boys,

00:44:39.500 they can't throw you all out. You go together, get a group of you, go in there. 50 boys,

00:44:45.120 all of you pull it down and pull the next one down. And the one after that, and the one after that,

00:44:50.380 get the girls to go in there and rip it off the wall and bring it over to the girls where it belongs.

00:44:54.040 And Len, here's another postscript for you. Any girl who's posing as a boy, but actually still getting

00:45:00.140 her period because she's a girl can go through the extra hassle of shoving a tampon in her back pocket.

00:45:07.760 She doesn't need to have a tampon dispenser in the boy's room. And if emergency strikes and she forgets

00:45:13.640 a tampon, she can meander for two seconds into the girl's room to get one to inconvenience,

00:45:18.900 to make boys stop and pause to ask themselves, Oh gee, why would a boy need a tampon while they're

00:45:26.880 just doing their business in the middle of the school day is wrong. Camille it's wrong.

00:45:30.960 Well, I, I don't want to support or endorse any kind of vandalism in school, you know,

00:45:36.680 tearing it apart down to the studs and everything guys take, take it a little easy. I know Megan

00:45:41.720 just gave you some direct instructions. I'm asking you to maybe take it a little easy,

00:45:45.120 but it is, it is bizarre that this is the world that we live in now where everything has been so

00:45:51.240 thoroughly politicized where inside of the school inside of the boys locker room is politicized

00:45:57.960 inside of the girls changing room at the swimming pool is heavily, thoroughly, completely politicized.

00:46:04.320 It does feel like the sort of thing where I have to imagine wherever you stand on these particular

00:46:09.080 issues, you can't be thrilled about the state of affairs, the state of our public discourse broadly,

00:46:15.100 and the state of our bathroom politics. It it's all just become so very bizarre. And I'm,

00:46:21.920 I for one am thoroughly exhausted by most of it. So it's not surprising to me that they decided to

00:46:29.360 take some direct action and remove this particular thing from the bathroom wall. I just, I wish that

00:46:36.340 they would do it in a little more constructive way. Oh, stop it right now. They did the right thing

00:46:40.880 and the next one should go too. All right. In the minute we have left in as the New York times takes

00:46:45.460 a shot at the transgender thing. Again, Pamela Paul, who's actually one of the more, they're more

00:46:51.100 fair writers, um, does a piece on D transitioners, which was compelling and awful talking about 15

00:46:58.300 year olds getting double mastectomies and what it's like to be a D transitioner, how you get kicked out

00:47:03.200 of the club. It's a lot of bullying and so on. And of course on cue glad and the other groups attack

00:47:09.760 her as full of disinformation and, you know, try to undermine her credibility. So what does it say

00:47:16.680 that the times aired this piece, that it ran this piece and what do you make of the backlash?

00:47:21.640 Yeah. First of all, I want to say, I do agree with you. Pamela Paul is one of the fairest people

00:47:25.320 at the New York times. I think that's a really short list, but she's on it. Uh, so I don't want

00:47:29.300 to attack her personally, but there is this sense with this piece, although I'm glad it's going in

00:47:33.760 front of a New York times audience in many ways, that's what needs, that's the audience that needs to see

00:47:37.400 this message. I mean, there is a little bit of an annoyance, I think shared by a lot of people on

00:47:42.020 the right that, you know, five years after we're called horrific names and crazy and bigoted and

00:47:48.120 right-wing and transphobic and insane, uh, that, that the New York times can print basically what

00:47:52.980 we've been saying for years and years and years. And something as basic as there is such a thing as

00:47:58.580 a boy and a girl, and they're not interchangeable and that, you know, applying medical, really radical

00:48:03.480 medical procedures to minors in the, the quixotic attempt to change their sex is a bad thing.

00:48:08.840 We'll be looked back at with horror. Um, with no, there is that little annoyance in the framing

00:48:13.840 of like, well, the right-wing bigots are still wrong, uh, but maybe we went a little too far.

00:48:18.520 So I find that tone very irritating. Well, I don't care what the backlash is. Pamela Paul,

00:48:23.740 keep writing, keep writing, keep researching because there's many, many more out there and the money

00:48:28.060 behind this industry needs to be exposed to Camille and as thank you. We'll be right back with Paul

00:48:32.520 Murray. I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly show on Sirius XM. It's your home for open,

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00:49:31.680 From the border crisis in America to what's happening down under. I've been looking forward

00:49:42.180 to talking about the Australia laws when it comes to illegal immigration and quote asylum seekers

00:49:46.980 for quite some time. You see, here's the story. Every week I go on with my friend Paul Murray of

00:49:53.680 Sky News Australia and we talk about what's happening here with him because we have a lot of Aussies who are

00:49:59.480 interested in America and who are expats from here and so on. And it's made me very interested in the

00:50:05.000 country and what's happening there and the parallels between their country and ours. And one of the ways

00:50:09.100 in which we are very dissimilar, at least presently, is when it comes to immigration policy. You see,

00:50:14.880 the Australians aren't having it. It's a hard no, or at least has been for the past 50, 60 years there

00:50:22.800 if you try to get in there illegally. And they don't much care if you don't think they're

00:50:27.540 particularly friendly about the way they keep people out. It's exactly the opposite of the way

00:50:32.800 we are now. And I was thinking about it because there was a report in the New York Times last week

00:50:36.920 where President Biden, when he took over as president, reportedly styled his immigration

00:50:41.160 policies around the need to appear more humane when it came to our southern border. Well, let me tell

00:50:49.280 you, my impression is Australia doesn't give two shits, forgive me, whether you think they're

00:50:54.060 humane. They want to protect their country from bad guys, from people who want to exploit the system,

00:51:01.000 from people who don't want to assimilate. And while there is a rigorous process for those who

00:51:05.560 would like to assimilate and actually move doctors, lawyers, whatever, to Australia and add to the

00:51:10.200 economy, they are damn sure that's who you really are before you can get in there. So my friend Paul

00:51:15.000 Murray is with us today, and he's going to walk us through some of what I just outlined. He's a

00:51:20.200 broadcaster for Sky News Australia's Paul Murray Live. Paul, so great to have you. Welcome on.

00:51:27.080 It helps. G'day, Megan. Lovely to see you.

00:51:29.500 You're such a good friend that you woke up at, what is it, 5.30 in the morning there? What time

00:51:33.580 is it there?

00:51:34.620 It is 5 o'clock in the morning right now, but I'm going to break some news for you straight

00:51:37.740 off the top. I've done an all-nighter. So who knows what's about to happen? It's an all-nighter.

00:51:42.840 I did my show last night and I went bugger it. I'll just walk around the streets and then I'll turn up

00:51:47.980 here full of energy and end my career before our very eyes. Well, I thought maybe like you went to

00:51:53.440 a rave or something, or were you just studying up for the hit? I'll be honest, I was smoking an

00:51:58.860 awful lot of cigars. Okay, we'll get to that later. You need to live a long and heavy life,

00:52:04.800 so we'll have to put those aside eventually. Okay. Thank you. So Australia is not messing around

00:52:11.260 when it comes to illegal immigration. And can you just like give us the broad view? Because

00:52:17.100 one of the things that got me interested in this was back in 2022, when they kept out Novak Djokovic,

00:52:21.560 who wouldn't get the vaccine. And then it just led to an in-depth look at Australia in general is no

00:52:27.640 stranger to saying, no, keep the hell out. They don't really care. And so what, how did they get

00:52:34.200 that way? Has it always been thus? Well, the, over the past sort of 20 years or so, about 20 years ago,

00:52:41.040 there was this sort of great difference between Australians who believed, oh, I've got to be

00:52:45.460 compassionate and anyone who can sort of float their way here should be able to become a citizen.

00:52:49.920 But the reality was that people were dying in that journey. Now, most likely the path was to go from

00:52:55.780 Indonesia, hop on a boat, pay $10,000 to a people smuggler, and then you eventually float your way

00:53:02.980 towards Australia. You get here close enough, well, thanks for the effort you're in. But thousands of

00:53:09.760 people died while this was taking place. So the country was very clear where they turned around

00:53:16.440 and said, no, yes, we're an island, but we don't care how you get here. You've got to come through

00:53:22.300 the front door. So put simply, if you came here illegally, our position was that we will turn

00:53:28.520 the boat around and we'll send you back. And if you try to sink the boat, we'll use our Navy and we'll get

00:53:34.440 a, you know, a sort of special lifeboat or something and turn that around and send it back. If you did

00:53:39.800 happen to get here, you went into an offshore processing center and put simply, you stayed there until

00:53:46.080 you either decided to go home or you decided to go home.

00:53:52.160 Exactly. So it does have the advantage of being an island, right? I mean, it's this huge island right in the

00:53:56.700 middle of the water. But you, as I understand it, were facing, you know, trouble with people from

00:54:02.120 Indonesia, people from China, elsewhere, really wanting to come live in the beautiful Australia.

00:54:07.220 So while the problem is smaller in nature than ours, which unfortunately we are connected to,

00:54:13.300 you know, on the, on the top and the bottom, um, it was significant. And so the, as I understand it,

00:54:19.020 the main purpose of the harsh policies was deterrence. And therein is the most important

00:54:24.780 lesson I think for America, because it being perceived as inhumane is kind of part of the point.

00:54:30.840 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the whole idea is that there's a front door and in the same way that you

00:54:37.680 don't cut the line when you go to Disney, if you still go to Disney, you don't cut the line when

00:54:42.940 you're going to a diner or you're sitting down to a restaurant, you don't cut the line when it comes to

00:54:47.760 immigration. If you fill out the paperwork, if you are, you know, this amazing to be able to become a

00:54:53.980 citizen, it'll happen. If you've got a skill for our country, that's fantastic. But otherwise,

00:54:58.560 no, and you needed to send a message. And this is sort of the key message that I want to get to

00:55:04.340 Americans is you've got to have the idea that you have a country worth protecting by having a border

00:55:13.120 and you have to draw the line to say, it is a privilege to be here, not a right that will be

00:55:19.200 afforded to you. If you can find a way to get here. The way it's described, including in long pieces,

00:55:26.240 I've been reading in advance of this by detractors of the policy is Australia. This is from a piece

00:55:32.640 in the diplomat magazine from 19. Australia is the only country that mandates immigration detention

00:55:38.340 for all unlawful arrivals. It's like you come here illegally, you're going into mandatory detention,

00:55:46.300 including those seeking protection as refugees. Australia has one of the most punitive policies

00:55:51.600 on forced migration in the world and says Australia effectively punishes those who flee to the

00:55:58.200 country for protection. Now, this is somebody who doesn't like the policy, but I'll tell you,

00:56:01.380 most Americans be reading this right now, Paul, and being like, good.

00:56:05.380 Yeah. Well, also, don't forget here, the actual rules of being a refugee is that you go from,

00:56:11.460 let's imagine that there's a problem particularly for you. And I don't know why I'm floating around in

00:56:14.800 the background. I apologise. But you're in this scenario where, correct, you're in this scenario

00:56:21.280 where if you're a refugee, the country you are being persecuted in, the place where you can claim

00:56:26.660 your refugee status is actually the location of the nearest safe country. In Australia, there are

00:56:34.500 multiple countries before you get to us because we're an island, which means none of that counts.

00:56:39.300 So the people who are turning up here are not refugees. They are people who are trying to

00:56:43.940 shop for better access to welfare because the reality about Australia is, while a lot of people

00:56:48.920 would like to think that Australia is sort of one big version of Texas, the reality is, is that we

00:56:53.500 are, you know, Canada or the United Kingdom in terms of social welfare, but just with a lot more

00:56:58.840 desert. Hmm. So what happens? Because I'm very interested in these detention facilities that are

00:57:05.620 offshore. And by the way, what you just said is it aligns perfectly with the United States on a

00:57:10.140 number of fronts because most of the people seeking asylum in the United States are not

00:57:13.620 Mexicans. You know, they're from Venezuela. They're from other points South. And this is one of the

00:57:18.500 policies of the Trump administration, which was if you have not sought asylum in a country before you

00:57:24.520 got here and you're claiming you need asylum here, you're, you're not eligible. Like you have to prove

00:57:30.260 why, why do you have to have it in the United States? Why'd you just pass right through Mexico

00:57:33.920 without asking? So there are parallels, but let's, yeah, go ahead.

00:57:38.320 Well, I was going to say, exactly right. But also another one of the fundamental issues that,

00:57:43.080 that, that we cleared up in our political language and in and around our debates 20 years ago was

00:57:49.360 there is a difference between legal immigration and illegal immigration. But if I turn on MSNBC,

00:57:54.940 they refer to people that are crossing the, the Southern border by their millions as migrants,

00:58:00.120 as if they're exactly the same as the people who came from, you know, World War II, um, to the

00:58:06.060 United States to build the country. This is part of the problem, which is about how you view these

00:58:10.960 people. Now, are they human? Should they be treated humanely? Of course, but there's a front door and

00:58:16.820 that's the only thing that matters about the system. So the offshore processing is about having a

00:58:21.860 deterrent. Now, obviously the numbers we're talking here are nowhere near the millions that you're

00:58:26.920 dealing with in the United States, but it's very simple. If you end up in Mexico and you're trying

00:58:33.260 to come from somewhere way back, you know, down the map, well, guess what? Mexico is the safe place

00:58:38.760 to go. America is not the safe place to go. So America has every right to say, well, bugger off.

00:58:43.660 You can go back to the nearest safe country. So how does Australia make sure that the people who are

00:58:50.180 trying to come on by boat in this way, who haven't sought asylum at, at another, you know,

00:58:55.400 island, another country before they got to you or who aren't even really pretending to be asylum

00:59:00.300 seekers? You know, they're just trying to get into Australia. How do they do it? Do they have

00:59:03.800 patrols all around? Is the, is the coast all around Australia, heavily patrolled?

00:59:09.180 Well, put simply in terms of the, you know, it's, it's our West coast and sort of our Northern West

00:59:14.080 coast, which is what is most susceptible to the boats coming from Indonesia because of the landmasses.

00:59:20.740 The Navy is actually constantly flying up and down to see whether anything's there, satellites or the

00:59:28.140 rest of it. So as soon as they start to see something that will look like a boat, it's pretty

00:59:32.800 obvious. It's not going to be an official fishing vessel or something like that. As soon as they're

00:59:37.300 able to work out that Jesus, an awful lot of people on that boat, well, then you intercept it as soon as

00:59:41.820 possible by literally sending someone from the Navy at speed to meet them as physically close to the

00:59:48.580 Indonesian side of the line than the Australian side of the line. Now, just how close it gets to

00:59:53.340 the Australian waters. Well, again, if you make it that far, you're off to a place called Nauru,

00:59:58.520 which is an island country off to our West. Our government gave a lot of money to that country,

01:00:04.220 or you move up to a place called Papua New Guinea, which is just to the North. But again,

01:00:08.480 the whole point being that you'll never physically get here, but it's, it's basically using the military.

01:00:12.920 So in the same way that the Southern border has some sort of protection, the idea that it is

01:00:20.900 semi-federalized agencies and these confusions about whether the Texas National Guard can do

01:00:27.640 something, no, no, it's the Australian Defence Force that is in charge of this one. And that's

01:00:31.960 presumably what I would suggest you need in the US. So it's basically, not only are you not coming

01:00:37.200 into Australia, but we're going to send you off to this other little island that we're paying a bunch

01:00:41.360 of money to, to process you people. And you're really not going to be able to enjoy the fruits

01:00:47.300 of Australian living while we adjudicate what to do with you. That's what, I mean, as you well know,

01:00:53.680 what we're seeing right now is even today, there's a, there's a report about the illegals in New York

01:00:59.540 who are about to get food cards so that they can basically have a little credit card waiting for

01:01:04.340 them. So they can go to, and they say, Oh, well, as long as you don't spend it on anything other than

01:01:08.740 food or I think school supplies, then you can continue to have it. Like someone's actually

01:01:12.760 going to be auditing these people and they're spending. I mean, we don't even know where they

01:01:15.840 are or who they are in any event that we make such a lure, right? We're like, come on in, we'll get

01:01:21.480 you papers. We'll get you a job. They have several blue state governors advocating for an expedited work

01:01:27.100 permit permitting process for these people. We're giving them free lodging in Manhattan in three-star

01:01:33.420 hotels. It's literally the opposite of what you were doing on the islands. And let's be honest,

01:01:39.500 where they stay on these islands, it's not exactly the four seasons.

01:01:43.820 No, I mean, particularly Nauru. Nauru is basically an island of phosphorus, otherwise known as bird poo.

01:01:50.020 And literally it's sort of, it's fossilized over the years and that's where it is. It's not a pleasant

01:01:54.340 existence. It's not a hotel. It's not inhumanely, you're sleeping in tents and exposed to the weather and

01:01:59.940 all the rest of it. But there's not a great life there. There's, you know, the social life of the

01:02:04.380 other people that are sitting there. But I do have to point out that there have been moments where,

01:02:08.840 yes, a court here or there, or, you know, a certain series of activists have been able to

01:02:13.460 pierce a hole in it. But the Australian public is so definite about this position. Now, sure,

01:02:18.960 the far left and the far right might be somewhere else, but the sort of 80% bulk, regardless of whether

01:02:23.620 you're team red or team blue, believe in this offshore processing system. So essentially,

01:02:29.440 whenever there's a hole that's exposed in the system, laws are passed to make sure that that

01:02:33.900 system can continue and be re-fortified. So, I mean, but again, the thing that I'm amazed by the US,

01:02:39.860 and again, there's nothing more arrogant than somebody from another part of the world telling you

01:02:43.220 how you should do things, but allow me, which is when you've got a better social welfare system

01:02:48.800 for the people who arrived here illegally than the people who, for whatever reason,

01:02:53.380 end up on the streets of San Francisco, you've got a problem. Now, you would think that all of

01:02:58.020 the social justice warriors would see this, but instead, they had this sort of infantilised idea

01:03:02.740 that every single person who's crossing the border is somebody who's on the bones of their backside and

01:03:07.700 is doing this so that they can make a better life for their family. But the reality is, is that

01:03:12.740 there's an awful lot of people who know that there is a better life in the United States with greater

01:03:17.840 protections in the United States and even the minimum wage in the United States that is better

01:03:22.460 than the life that they have in other parts of Latin America, which means they are economic

01:03:27.400 migrants. They are not refugees. They are economic asylum seekers.

01:03:33.280 So what is it about Australians that make them 80% committed to maintaining the integrity of their

01:03:40.120 borders in their country? You know, that's, as you know, in the United States, it's almost divided

01:03:44.340 right down the middle, left, right. Liberals think, oh, Statue of Liberty, it's the same

01:03:49.240 as 1900. It's, you know, completely discounting the last 125 years. And I don't, yes, we were,

01:03:56.860 we are a nation of immigrants. That's kind of how we started, but it's been a long time since

01:04:02.200 that's been necessary to build our cities and get our economy roaring and lead to invention

01:04:07.000 and so on. And so like, what do you think the difference is? Why are 80% of Australians united

01:04:11.760 in this? And the U S is very much more political about it. Well, let's take it, say from the right

01:04:17.500 wing view, which is everyone else had to queue. So should you let's take it from the left wing

01:04:23.040 position, which is people are dying when they take this perilous journey, but it ends up in the same

01:04:29.080 place, which is to try to prevent the journey, which is to create these series of disincentives.

01:04:34.500 Now, again, we have a growing far left, the Greens party in this country that desperately believe,

01:04:40.420 like many of the, the crazy people that are in and around your politics, which is that essentially

01:04:46.560 the country isn't something to be proud of. So there's no need to defend it. There's no need for

01:04:51.840 a border because, you know, if you happen to be lucky enough to be born in the United States,

01:04:55.880 then why should you be afforded any more rights than somebody who's unlucky enough to be born in

01:05:00.460 Nicaragua? Well, again, the joy of the logic of being an island people, and I know that's odd being

01:05:07.400 a continent and all the rest of it, is that you're used to the idea of not being interconnected to

01:05:13.820 other countries. It's an effort to get to another country. So I think sort of there's something built

01:05:18.540 into the psyche of Australians that, you know, there's a certain level of isolation around where

01:05:22.940 we are, but there are different ways that people get to the same conclusion, which is either don't

01:05:28.620 cut the bloody queue, fill out the paperwork like my grandparents had to, or their great-grandparents

01:05:33.460 had to, or we don't want people to die on a journey of floating, which is a lot longer to

01:05:39.660 float from Indonesia to Australia than it is, say, from Cuba to the south of Florida.

01:05:45.220 Mm-hmm. There have been more and more reports about these facilities. Some on the left say

01:05:49.380 they're not humane enough. The New York Times is saying, oh, we saw, you know, pictures of food

01:05:53.880 with maggots on it, and, you know, there are sexual assaults in these facilities and so on.

01:05:59.240 They're not perfect, but they're not a lure either. It's not a place that anybody would think,

01:06:04.320 gee, I'd love to go there and spend 10 years, and you can. It could be several years in one of these

01:06:10.040 things before the Aussies resolve what to do with you. Well, as well, look, I'm not going to pretend

01:06:16.180 that every single moment and every single supplier to government has done the best thing. There's no

01:06:21.400 question that there has been plenty of problems along the way, and often it's because you're

01:06:25.440 relying upon sometimes sort of the local populations of places like Nauru and Papua New

01:06:30.920 Guinea. No disrespect to those that are watching us right now on YouTube. I'm not sure they've got

01:06:35.100 SiriusXM, but anyway, hello to all of those people, which is that the reality, got all my plugs in for

01:06:41.820 you, mate, is that the reality is that, yes, okay, there's occasional problems with some of the

01:06:47.400 service, but the reality was the assaults or the sexual assaults, they weren't happening from

01:06:51.060 guards on the people inside, they were from the fellow detainees. But what became or what has

01:06:57.680 become a bit of a problem in a sort of legal way through these detention centres was, as you would

01:07:04.840 say in America, the anchor baby phenomena, which is, well, there's a very famous case where there was

01:07:10.800 a couple that I think had come from Sri Lanka, both were ruled not to be refugees, they lost every

01:07:16.040 single appeal, but oh, surprise, surprise, they fell pregnant, so is the kid technically on Australian

01:07:21.420 soil, therefore they're Australian, so that should, that be the reason they come to Australia. Now,

01:07:26.820 they were prevented from coming to Australia for the best part of 10 years, but we had a recent change

01:07:31.960 in government, it's a little more Trudeau-like than I would prefer, but still, so they turned around

01:07:36.660 and basically picked them out of these detention centres and dropped them back into the community, but there

01:07:41.080 are still plenty of people inside those things, and my issue that I would talk about on my program is

01:07:46.520 that if you put any sugar on the table, it starts to trade again. So even if you find a scenario where

01:07:52.780 two people have a kid and then they're Australians, so this is the problem for America, if you put the

01:07:57.660 sugar on the table that one day you can end up in New York City and somebody will pay for your entire

01:08:02.880 life, guess what they'll do? Cross the freaking Rio Grande. Yeah, they'll come by the millions as they

01:08:08.940 have. So there is a, I read that in December of 2023, so just a month ago, there was a landmark

01:08:16.880 ruling from the High Court in Australia, ruling Australia's practice of indefinite immigration

01:08:21.260 detention is unlawful. So does that mean this ends, or does that just mean the claims seeking

01:08:28.860 asylum or admission need to be resolved faster? It is a big hole that was blown in it just a couple

01:08:37.100 of months ago. Ironically, well not ironically, amazingly, the person who was making these claims

01:08:43.540 about indefinite detention was a person who was accused of quite horrific sex offences against

01:08:49.700 children, but for some reason this person was the champion case that made it through to the High

01:08:56.120 Court, because we've got two parts here. There's the offshore that we talked about, but then there are

01:09:00.720 people who end up in domestic detention centres, because they're the people who may be given a thing

01:09:05.640 called a bridging visa. Now, a bridging visa is not full citizenship, it is just the right to stay

01:09:12.120 in the country, but essentially it's like a tourist visa where you're allowed to stay, but as soon as

01:09:17.700 you committed a crime, well that visa gets torn up and then you got put into these detention centres

01:09:22.600 and basically the legal process starts again. So we did have a scenario where about 150 people who had

01:09:29.960 been all ruled to not be refugees, had been able to be pulled out of the system because of this

01:09:36.440 lawfare, but perfect example of how the Australian system works, within a couple of weeks of that

01:09:41.840 High Court decision, we had both sides of politics rushing new legislation through to try to limit anyone's

01:09:48.780 access to that system, such is the relentless resolve. Now, we don't have the numbers that were coming to us

01:09:54.700 like even 10 years ago, but because we saw what happened 10 years ago when you put the sugar on

01:10:01.980 the table, you constantly have the resolve to take it off the table. And again, I've been watching the

01:10:09.020 debate in the past couple of weeks where I hear constantly, oh, Republicans and Democrats in the

01:10:13.340 Senate are close to some sort of deal and Biden wants to sign it, but Trump's telling everyone, you know,

01:10:18.280 don't sign it because the issue is going to be one that he still wants at the election. And I'm sorry,

01:10:22.500 Joe Biden doesn't get to pretend that he can be the solution to his own problem.

01:10:26.980 His election and Kamala Harris's language around trying to dismantle the disincentives that Trump

01:10:32.780 put in place are part of why you ended up in the scenario that you are right now. So I don't believe

01:10:38.340 that Joe Biden is going to start to move towards the idea of removing the incentive and increasing the

01:10:45.880 disincentive. I think that he's just trying to come up with some sort of solution to deal with the

01:10:51.000 polls. Yeah. And allowing Mayorkas, the guy who's being impeached right now for not enforcing the

01:10:56.360 border to have some sort of a magic wand to decide ultimately, well, you all have asylum and you

01:11:01.120 don't is like amnesty. I mean, that's really, that's as close as we're going to get to amnesty

01:11:05.280 in today's day and age. And the people don't want it. All right, one more minute. And I do want to

01:11:09.420 talk about American politics too and our policies, but a couple more questions about, about you guys.

01:11:13.960 So as you know, we have sanctuary cities here. They're all Democrat rung. They're all a disaster right now.

01:11:18.620 They're all complaining about all the immigrants. It's like, well, gee, how, what do you talk about

01:11:22.040 sugar there? Needless to say, there's nothing close to that in Australia.

01:11:27.940 No, there's, there is not a sanctuary street. There is not a sanctuary, uh, hold the sack.

01:11:34.080 There is not a sanctuary housing development. There is no legal territory in Australia that will give

01:11:41.040 safe harbor to any of these people. Um, there will be certainly sort of governments that lean a little

01:11:46.460 more, uh, to the left that will try to find ways to increase the amount of support services or

01:11:52.520 something like that. But the idea that you have, and again, this is that the layers of idiocy here

01:11:57.140 where you have one part of the country fighting against another part of the country about the

01:12:02.860 integrity of the border of the country is insane. These are people who are actively undermining their

01:12:09.460 country. And isn't it amazing? Once the problem moves out of Texas, oh, when it's on the front page of

01:12:14.880 the New York papers, suddenly it's a real issue they want to deal with. But when it was out of

01:12:19.120 sight, it was out of mind and they could all sit around in dinner parties saying, come on in,

01:12:23.340 just don't live next to me. Right. I mean, the best example, of course, is the Martha's Vineyard

01:12:28.060 crew who, you know, give us, you're hungry, you're tired, you're poor. And then as soon as they got

01:12:32.880 there, like, oh God, get the hell out. And then when they didn't even stay on the ground for,

01:12:37.480 I don't know, it was 48 hours, they actually had the nerve to say, we missed them. We're going to go

01:12:43.080 visit them in the detention centers to which they've been. Sure, Jan. But again, these are

01:12:49.260 all the people who live in gated communities. The idea that the metaphor of how they choose to live

01:12:57.120 is how your country should take care of itself, that is completely lost on them, shows you how

01:13:02.120 empty vessel some of these people are. And their compassion is about as shallow as a thimble.

01:13:07.560 So in a sanctuary city, if you are an illegal and you commit a crime, they will not call the

01:13:13.500 feds. They might prosecute you for the crime. They might not. I mean, in New York, we've seen

01:13:18.760 example after example where they don't. But they definitely will not call the feds if they see that

01:13:24.400 there's a detainer on you. You know, you were supposed to show up for your asylum hearing and

01:13:27.720 you didn't. And now you're just roaming the country. So they're supposed to call ICE and say, yo,

01:13:31.240 I found one for you. Come get him and deport him. They won't if it's in a sanctuary city.

01:13:35.500 So what happens in Australia with somebody who's there on like a bridging visa where

01:13:40.060 they're trying to figure it out? It's like a temporary work visa or a student visa

01:13:43.180 if you commit a crime? Well, obviously, if you end up going to jail for a certain amount of time

01:13:50.440 and we're talking about the particularly serious cases like exactly like it, like say if that scenario

01:13:55.480 of the people who sit on the police officers in New York happened, well, firstly, you wouldn't be

01:14:00.380 out of jail the next day. But secondly, if found guilty and sent to jail, then visa ripped up

01:14:05.500 and if you can be deported from the country the second that you leave prison, that's exactly

01:14:10.300 what happens. We'll book a plane. We don't care what the seat is, what the airline is. And if we've

01:14:15.300 got to have a private funded one, we'll do that, too. But see you later. You're going home.

01:14:20.060 They will spend money. You spend money in Australia on these illegal immigrants or these wannabe

01:14:25.860 refugees slash asylum seekers. It doesn't it's not cheap, but you do it because of these principles.

01:14:31.300 I mean, as I understand, it could be up to $250,000 per person to keep them at these offshore

01:14:38.300 facilities. Yeah, look, it's the same cost as basically, you know, I can't put it any other

01:14:43.660 way, incarceration. I mean, in the same way that that costs a certain amount per person,

01:14:48.100 that's exactly what happens when it comes to these offshore processing centers. But again, because

01:14:53.780 in our DNA and now in our politics and the way that we want to present ourselves to the rest of the

01:15:01.060 world, we want it to be a privilege for you to be afforded citizenship here. Now, I always talk about

01:15:07.220 this on telly, which is I was lucky enough to be born into the greatest club in the world, which was

01:15:12.780 to be an Australian, right? I am absolutely welcoming of anyone who wants to come from any other country.

01:15:18.740 I've already filled out your paperwork, by the way, Megan. You know, I've got a nice place for you

01:15:22.820 just by the harbour. You'll love it, right? The whole family, all the rest of it, right?

01:15:26.740 You're more than welcome. The internet will work. Nobody will see anything different. It'll be you

01:15:30.260 hanging out on Bondo Beach each and every night that you want to, right? But we're going to have

01:15:34.280 a scenario here where we want people to be able to fill out the paperwork, to add something to the

01:15:40.400 country, to commit to the laws of the country. And if you choose to go against those things,

01:15:45.580 what the punishment is, the privilege of being able to live in this lovely, peaceful little

01:15:50.540 island at the other end of the earth, well, that'll be taken away from you because citizenship

01:15:54.940 is a right that has responsibilities, regardless of whether you're born here, flew here, or you've

01:16:01.500 been able to get here some other way. So what about, just one final note, on the hotels that are inside

01:16:09.200 the country? We talked about the offshore facilities, but I remember when Novak Djokovic got in trouble

01:16:13.660 because he didn't get the COVID vaccine, they weren't going to let him play in the Australian

01:16:16.840 Open, but he came anyway. They stuck him in, for lack of a better term, a hotel, but everyone in

01:16:22.880 there was an unlawful migrant of some sort, and he was one of them. And it was like, oh my God,

01:16:30.220 the number one tennis player, how's he being treated? What's the story with these, quote,

01:16:33.700 hotels on Australian ground? And how do you get into one of those?

01:16:37.000 Well, in the same way that we, you know, that again, the incarceration system would work,

01:16:42.460 that there's prison farms or there's home detention, there are layers of security and

01:16:48.220 layers of unpleasantness. Obviously, Australia wanted to take him out of the community,

01:16:54.280 quarantine him to make sure that he wasn't going to, you know, jump the rules or try to find a place

01:17:00.960 to hide. So he ended up going into one of these hotels, hotels where people had been there for

01:17:06.120 some for a few months, some for a few years, but you weren't able to sort of come and go.

01:17:10.500 It's not an Uber Eats festival. You know, everyone eats well. I'm sure it's not the way that he

01:17:14.760 was used to it as a global sporting sensation, but basically he was there until they could work out

01:17:22.240 on what flight he would go home. So again, like the gradients of the prison system, there are gradients

01:17:28.520 of comfort in the immigration system. And it goes from, you know, Bird Pooh Island all the way through to

01:17:34.180 the three-star hotel. This is like so smart. There's so much we can learn from the way you

01:17:40.280 guys are doing it. If only we had the will. And of course we don't. So that brings us to the United

01:17:45.400 States and this fig leaf of a bill that they're debating right now. It does seem DOA. The Republicans

01:17:51.480 are not going to vote for this thing. At least it doesn't look like that. I mean, they never

01:17:54.900 underestimate their ability to disappoint us. And I understand the argument by some, which is half a

01:17:59.560 loaf is better than no loaf. Trump might not win. Biden could stay the president. There's some

01:18:04.340 border enforcement, you know, some improvements in this bill, but there's a lot of, there's a lot

01:18:08.360 of carrots for the Democrats too. Um, lots of debates about what we should do, what we shouldn't

01:18:14.120 do and what Trump should or shouldn't do. Like what did he drop the ball when he had control of both

01:18:19.540 houses of Congress and not pushing something through joy Reed, who I know, you know, we've talked

01:18:24.240 about her before on your show. She went on our other favorite, the view. I mean, come on, it's

01:18:28.260 a clash of both of our favorite targets. Let's go. And she had some thoughts about Donald Trump and

01:18:36.440 how he really fell down on the job. Take a listen. And John, he finished the wall, did not build a

01:18:42.280 wall, which is why there's barbed wire at the border because it's water. You can't build a wall

01:18:47.080 over water. It's a whole Rio Grande. You can't build a wall over that. So he can't build a wall.

01:18:52.580 None of it was true. Yet people, they had this mismemory of the Trump era as this great era. It

01:18:57.880 was the opposite. Bullshit. Trump was the problem, Paul. Trump was the problem. But, but of course,

01:19:07.340 again, very selective memory, right? Which is this, she's out there pretending, oh, Trump couldn't

01:19:12.160 build the wall. Congress wouldn't fund it for the second two years. Now, very obviously,

01:19:17.000 did he get it built in the two years where he had full control? No. But again, could you come up

01:19:22.560 potentially with a system to have been for all of that to be built in two years? Probably not.

01:19:28.400 So it was a four year presidency with the plan of building the wall in as many places as possible.

01:19:34.120 Well, if halfway through the Democrats turn around and don't give you money for it anymore,

01:19:37.860 guess what doesn't get built? The freaking wall.

01:19:40.200 Yeah, exactly right. So now you've got no wall.

01:19:45.320 I'm not yelling at you, by the way. It's joy rich. She gets me nuts every time.

01:19:49.620 Now I'm with you. I'm with you. So you've got no wall. You've got millions coming in

01:19:53.780 in record numbers and you've got crime. And that's the other thing. There's crime rampant

01:19:57.420 now in all these cities that have the illegals. We talked briefly about those migrants,

01:20:01.100 illegals in New York. Do you know in New York City, they passed a law that says if you,

01:20:05.460 if you use the term illegal immigrant and you have hate in your heart, you can be arrested.

01:20:09.620 Like there's somebody who's going to go figure out what's in my heart. Illegal immigration,

01:20:14.060 illegal immigrant, illegal immigrant. Good luck. Come get me.

01:20:17.900 That's it. Two genders, illegal immigration, legal immigration.

01:20:22.600 That's right. Suck it. So Alvin Bragg now is trying to respond to criticism that they're

01:20:29.600 receiving in New York because what happened was those illegals beat up two cops, kicked them in the

01:20:33.760 face, all sorts of damage to these two guys just trying to enforce the law. And then we let them out

01:20:38.540 with no bail. And then they fled. They only got one of them. There's, I think there's eight total.

01:20:42.520 They've gotten five or seven and they're still looking for one. And now in the midst of all

01:20:47.000 this blowback, Alvin Bragg comes out and he's shocked. He's shocked that there's a problem with

01:20:51.960 the illegals policy. Can't believe that they fled New York. Take a listen to the DA.

01:20:56.100 In Manhattan, we do not tolerate or accept assaults on police officers. I watched the

01:21:03.980 tape this week. Despicable behavior. It's sickened me and outraged me. In a court of law,

01:21:11.060 and our profound obligation is to make sure we have the right people charged with the right

01:21:16.220 crimes. I don't think any New Yorker wants us to charge the wrong person. My response is that

01:21:20.380 we have an obligation on the court of law, uh, to prosecute the right people with the right

01:21:25.840 charges. That's what we're doing here. Uh, we have more information now than we had on Saturday.

01:21:32.080 I predict we'll have more in a few days than we have now.

01:21:36.820 Oh, as if it was a mystery that they beat up cops,

01:21:39.840 but also it's a series of things that lead to the current problem, right? If you're going to turn

01:21:47.520 around and say that somebody can walk into a CVS and pull a $999 worth of stuff off the shelves and

01:21:54.900 then walk off and you can't even intercept them as the person who owns the shop. Well, then are you

01:22:01.040 surprised that the level of what is acceptable eventually gets to the scenario where police are

01:22:07.320 assaulted? And also save me this garbage about, oh, we're not going to accept, uh, you know,

01:22:12.360 the assault of police officers. I'm sorry. There are how many examples of the assault of police

01:22:16.320 officers that obviously get a very soft hand when it gets to the judiciary. But remember these people

01:22:21.580 got out of jail after being on video, assaulting police officers the next day.

01:22:29.280 Yeah. Under his administration. And he's been one of the softest on crime, unless your name is Trump,

01:22:33.880 in which case he's very, very interested in your hush money payments to Stormy Daniels and how you

01:22:38.380 didn't totally. The banks that you've already paid back that didn't complain about it.

01:22:41.680 That too. That's another problem in New York. Um, I want to ask you about wokeism in Australia,

01:22:47.740 because that is something that the, the lovely status as an Island has not protected you from.

01:22:52.240 And wokeism has infected Aussies the same way COVID infected Aussies. Uh, you may have been immune.

01:22:58.080 Look at the fun backgrounds going on. Thank you for the, I don't know what's happening. I am so sorry.

01:23:03.920 We, we, we sent a million emails and said, Hey, can everyone just, you know, let's all get up here.

01:23:08.440 And maybe because it's very early in the morning, but anyway, I've, I've apparently moved rooms while

01:23:13.380 you were talking. Oh, now it's back. Stop changing the background. Stop changing the background.

01:23:20.840 It's fun. Bloody hell. We are a professional outfit. I promise. It's kind of fun. It's kind

01:23:28.140 of fun to watch. It's a mosaic of options. Um, so you're, you are infected by wokeism and we know

01:23:33.660 this because we talk about it all the time, but also just last week, there was that story about

01:23:37.600 Rip Curl, uh, an Australian brand kicking off, uh, Bethany. God, what's her last name? It's not my

01:23:44.400 world surfing, uh, Hamilton. Yeah. She'd been, she'd been, she lost her arm at age nine from a

01:23:53.500 shark attack and went on to become everybody's favorite surfer. She was amazing. The resilience

01:23:56.620 and so on. They, they booted her a couple of years ago because she spoke out against men participating

01:24:01.380 in women's sport in the transgender lane. And I mean, in the women's lane, but is it there who say

01:24:06.720 they're transgender and they replaced her with the guy claiming to be a woman. So there, but there was

01:24:12.000 backlash to it, but there's every week goes by. There's another story of wokeism in Australia.

01:24:16.820 Same as we see in Canada, same as we see here, same as we see in Europe. So what's give us a feel

01:24:21.600 for how it's playing over there. Normal people hate it. Normal people hate it because it's a little bit

01:24:28.100 like what you were saying before about the don't refer to, you know, illegal immigration because

01:24:32.060 it shows hate in your heart. Here's the thing, you know, we're lucky enough to be able to express

01:24:37.040 ourselves each and every day in formats like this, right? You can respond to what we

01:24:41.980 say with the full force of whatever you've got, right? Let's get into the conversation,

01:24:46.240 but you don't get to tell me what I meant or what I was thinking. And the problem with

01:24:51.420 wokeism and postmodernism that leads into all of that, that basically means, you know,

01:24:57.720 is a tree a tree or have you just been told that it is, you know, this garbage that is all about

01:25:02.380 reordering our society is that it tries to pretend that we all have motivations that we clearly

01:25:09.760 don't. So when we turn around and say, hang on, OK, hang on, the person in the bikini who

01:25:17.700 doesn't just shave their bikini line, but also shaves their jaw, that's an odd presentation of

01:25:24.660 the person that you want to be, the person out in front representing a surf brand in a country

01:25:30.520 that has quite an obvious relationship with surfing, right? Be it professionally or be it just

01:25:36.860 mucking around at the beach. But the wokeism that comes from the corporate sector, I think largely

01:25:43.140 comes from the fact that many of these companies are listed on the stock exchange. As soon as you're

01:25:48.320 listed on the stock exchange, then you've got all of these areas where people are able to infect an

01:25:54.480 organisation and change it for the worse. The great companies are the ones that are sort of owned by

01:25:59.640 a person or a family and they kind of can keep a lot of this stuff out. But it's also governments

01:26:04.800 where basically because it's hard to build a bridge, we end up turning around and policing

01:26:10.980 language because it's difficult to police your border. We end up turning around and saying that

01:26:16.860 up is down and down is up. And what I find exhausting, you find exhausting and everyone watching and

01:26:22.980 listening finds exhausting is that I am tired of waking up and having to fight for what was the status

01:26:29.260 quo yesterday and being called bigot, racist, sexist, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, because I want what

01:26:36.040 happened yesterday to still be the rules tomorrow. Not in the 1950s, just yesterday.

01:26:42.780 Mm hmm. So it's happening over there. I mean, it's happening. The transgender thing, the race

01:26:48.120 essentialism, the policing of language, as you point out, is there a backlash happening now, too? Because I feel like

01:26:54.760 here in America, we're pretty well into the backlash against some of this, especially on the issues I

01:26:59.960 just ticked off. Well, as you are envious of our borders, I'm envious of the conservative economy,

01:27:07.340 the idea that if you want to find safe harbors with, you know, the mobile phone contract that you have

01:27:15.220 or the bank that you bank with, you can plot a way of kind of keeping wokeness out of your life

01:27:22.200 as best as you can. The problem in Australia is that we're such a small country that all of the

01:27:27.440 institutions that aren't literally privately owned by an individual or by a family are all

01:27:33.160 affected by all of this. So you end up with this scenario where basically the, I often talk about

01:27:39.620 sort of woke activists as basically kind of toddlers with a university degree, where they use the same

01:27:44.940 pester power they want for candy to get changes in language or changes in legislation. And as always,

01:27:51.540 whenever they change the legislation, they say it's about doing things like saying banning

01:27:56.060 gay conversion therapy from extreme religious groups. The reality, when you look at the legislation,

01:28:03.340 parents have no legal right to know whether their child is being pushed into a scenario to change

01:28:08.320 genders before they are old enough to get a tattoo. So it's not just us, but there is a backlash.

01:28:15.480 You're right. We are creating our own sort of line of, I mean, there's one advertiser who comes

01:28:19.680 on our show advertising their own freedom water. I was like every possible product has now realized

01:28:25.480 that conservatives buy products and conservatives want things available to them that doesn't,

01:28:30.120 you know, go against their values from beer to razors to banks. You could keep going, but we're just

01:28:36.640 at the beginning of this in 10 years, it should be a fully robust operative lane.

01:28:41.420 Well, and this is why, you know, uh, the people that you talk to over across at the,

01:28:46.100 the daily wire. I like what part of what they do where they turn around and say, look, we're going

01:28:50.160 to whinge about how woke movies are, or we could make movies that aren't woke. Right. I like the idea

01:28:56.060 of engaging in the culture to say, well, okay, we can whinge about it, or we can make an alternative

01:29:01.180 culture to take care of people who don't want the, the sort of over poisoning. I'm not talking about

01:29:06.900 some sort of overly puritanical kind of super edit where nobody, you know, sees half a boob or hears,

01:29:12.420 you know, three quarters of a swear word, but the idea that you can have a comedy that

01:29:17.380 actually pokes fun at people and sometimes occasionally punches down because we all like

01:29:21.340 watching fail videos, that that's a good thing to push back into the culture. And it's our

01:29:27.000 responsibility as people who buy movie tickets or buy products to support the ones who advertise

01:29:32.180 on this program, to keep watching this program and share this program to get the word out as much

01:29:37.640 as possible. But also I remember talking to a bunch of people in one of our big cities a couple

01:29:43.320 of months ago, and, you know, they understandably had all the list of grievances about everything

01:29:47.060 that was changing for the worse. But my pushback was, well, okay, if you think the schools are too

01:29:51.820 woke, there's a few millionaires in this room, get together and create a school that is a lifeboat.

01:29:58.100 Now we don't have a lifeboat for 25 million, but we could start off with a lifeboat for a hundred,

01:30:02.060 that becomes a thousand, that becomes 10,000, that becomes a million. And then surprise,

01:30:05.860 surprise, the kid's able to go from starting school into high school, into, as we call it,

01:30:11.880 university, as you would say, college. And guess what? They got the straight up and down education

01:30:16.280 that you and I got. And again, it's not a lifeboat for 25 million, but let's try and start with the

01:30:21.740 lifeboat for a hundred and save as many as possible. Okay. I just, I have news for you from the UK

01:30:29.840 where it's just breaking here. King Charles has been diagnosed with cancer.

01:30:33.880 Uh, this right now the report, this is from NBC during the King's recent hospital procedure

01:30:39.840 for benign prostate enlargement, a separate issue of concern was noted. Subsequent diagnostic tests

01:30:45.660 haven't identified a form of cancer. Buckingham palace did not specify what form of cancer was

01:30:50.620 diagnosed or at what stage it was found. Uh, Buckingham palace saying Charles had quote,

01:30:57.520 commenced a schedule of regular treatments and that during treatment, he would quote,

01:31:01.060 postpone public facing duties saying he would continue with his official business and usual

01:31:07.020 office work. Um, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out to you the next headline in the daily mail is

01:31:14.180 Harry to fly to London after King's cancer diagnosis. I'm sorry. I wish I could believe that that was all

01:31:22.260 about supporting his father who's ill, but I don't. Um, but the bigger picture is the King is sick

01:31:29.340 and with something serious. And I wonder, Paul, like, you know, if you look at the scenarios that

01:31:35.300 that are in front of us here, I mean, could we potentially have a situation where we have a King

01:31:40.000 who's only been on the throne for a year or two or what have you and decides we hope decides, we hope

01:31:45.620 nature doesn't decide for him that this is going to be his son's game sooner than we thought. Not that son,

01:31:52.340 but the air. No, you're absolutely correct. In terms of William, um, I think a lot of people had

01:32:00.660 the sense that there was something pretty serious about the surgeries that he was going for. We started

01:32:06.300 to hear about the potentials in and around prostate. I do find it mysterious that the, the Buckingham

01:32:15.080 Palace sometimes kind of wants to play the game like it's, you know, 1924, not 2024, which is that

01:32:23.740 you can turn around and say the King is ailing or the, the, the Queen Elizabeth, I mean, literally her,

01:32:29.680 her death certificate says that she died of old age. Now it does, it's not going to speed up or reduce

01:32:36.020 the cancer for people to know what type of cancer that it is. Obviously human to human, we hope that

01:32:43.260 it is not advanced that whatever treatment he can get is the best possible and he has the longest

01:32:48.000 possible life. But I think what is particularly worth noting here is that Queen Elizabeth's reign

01:32:56.280 was the longest of all time. It was the exception to the rule. Now in previous times, obviously it had

01:33:02.180 been a good health or conflicts, a whole series of reasons why Kings and Queens come and go. But the

01:33:08.940 reality that we could be looking at a potential change in the throne, either through the worst

01:33:14.320 possible circumstances or, um, health meaning that it's passed on to the son within five years,

01:33:21.800 10 years, or, or even in the worst case scenario here, two or three years is very real, which is why

01:33:28.180 there's a constant training process for who's next. That the Prince of Wales role inside the Royal

01:33:36.460 household is essentially to be right across all of the activities of the King for the moment when

01:33:42.040 you ascend to the throne. And William obviously has just as his father has his entire life known that

01:33:49.040 that is his future. So it's, it's not a shock where you wake up one day living a normal life and then you

01:33:54.480 become a King for obvious reasons. You are training for it and preparing for it. Obviously as a family,

01:34:02.340 I hope that they can pull themselves together and make it through the, the Harry thing I've got to

01:34:08.040 mention here where he's been in and out of the UK multiple times when he was trying to sue newspapers

01:34:13.980 and then turned around and dropped those actions. He didn't see his father. Instead, it takes

01:34:19.000 potentially, let's say early cancer or worst case scenario, pretty advanced cancer for him to drop all

01:34:26.940 of his bullshit and to actually go and see his father. And that's a comment about him. And that's why

01:34:31.580 thankfully he is the spare and the heir in William and his wife, Kate is somebody who is ready when

01:34:38.760 his time comes. Yeah. No, when, when Charles was going through the hospital treatments to figure

01:34:46.180 out what's going on with the enlarged prostate was right around the time when Harry's book was

01:34:51.100 mysteriously translated to reveal the alleged racist or not Harry's book, Omid Scobie's book

01:34:57.420 was mysteriously translated to reveal who the alleged racist were in the Royal family who supposedly said

01:35:03.580 they were concerned about the cover of the color of Megan and Harry's child. And it was revealed one

01:35:09.940 of them was allegedly King Charles. And there's no way Omid Scobie would have been told that by anybody

01:35:15.820 other than Harry and Megan. So these two, in my view, have been sticking the knife into King Charles

01:35:21.700 for years now, the Royal family at large. And so it's the same thing with the queen. Was there any

01:35:29.120 person or persons more responsible for stress within the family than those two leading up to her

01:35:35.180 unfortunate death? And as he falls ill with cancer, I'm not blaming these two, but I also don't have it

01:35:41.180 in me to cheer for his, his heartfelt return to be by his dad's bedside when he's in trouble,

01:35:46.640 when he is the family member more than any other who tried to stick the knife into his dad as he

01:35:52.400 was ascending to the throne, has been ignoring him, as you point out, when he goes to the UK.

01:35:56.580 So whatever, it shouldn't be a headline. The headline should be about the king. He's 75.

01:36:01.480 He was only coronated in May. And, um, you know, these things can be serious. What we hope is that

01:36:06.600 this one will be under control and fast because one thing's true. They have access to the best,

01:36:11.700 best healthcare in the world. Paul, it's been such a pleasure. Thank you so much. I love

01:36:16.120 talking to you. I love your show and I'll see you tomorrow. My time, the day after your time on

01:36:22.460 Sky News, Australia, wherever it is, it's bedtime somewhere and somebody else is getting up and

01:36:28.340 somebody's pulling on lighter. Megan, I love you. I've admired you from afar and to be able to get

01:36:32.680 to know you as I have has been an absolute privilege. I love this show. I listen to it all

01:36:36.740 the time. I watch it all the time and you're the best in the biz. Love you though. Thank you,

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The Megyn Kelly Show - February 05, 2024

Disastrous Biden Poll, and How Australia Cracks Down on Illegal Immigration, with Kmele Foster, Inez Stepman, and Paul Murray ｜ Ep. 717

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