The Megyn Kelly Show - Disturbing Idaho Murders 911 Call Released, and New Bryan Kohberger Selfie Revealed, with Howard Blum ｜ Ep. 1032

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00:00:31.160 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:42.640 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:46.000 Oh, we've got some major updates in the Brian Kohlberger case out in Idaho

00:00:51.520 and his upcoming trial, which is still set for this August.

00:00:55.720 I mean, at one point it seemed so far away, didn't it?

00:00:58.260 And now we're coming up on it.

00:01:00.420 Information about this case had been coming out at a snail's pace.

00:01:03.800 Oh my God, until now.

00:01:05.160 I've been following the case and talking with Howard Bloom,

00:01:09.520 you guys know him by this point, my team about it,

00:01:11.560 and even I am just blown away by what just got released.

00:01:14.780 In the last week, we learned more about how Kohlberger may have obtained the knife

00:01:19.220 prosecutors allege he used in the heinous act of killing four innocent college students

00:01:25.700 in Moscow, Idaho.

00:01:28.100 It happened in November 2022.

00:01:31.040 It happened within a 12 to 17 minute period at 4 a.m.

00:01:37.020 He was a teaching assistant and Ph.D. student at the nearby Washington State

00:01:42.160 and Washington University, and they were all students at Idaho.

00:01:48.240 And he is alleged to have come to their home in the middle of the night,

00:01:52.480 killed the two best friends, Madison Mogan and Kaylee Gonsalves, 0.95

00:01:56.300 who were sleeping in a bed together, as female best friends often do,

00:02:00.300 as well as Zanna Kurnodal and her boyfriend, Ethan Chapin,

00:02:04.400 who were in a different room on the second floor.

00:02:06.900 The two girls on the third, Zanna and Ethan on the second.

00:02:11.960 And there were two other roommates in the house.

00:02:14.860 Okay, two other roommates in the house.

00:02:17.420 And we are learning so much more about them and what they did or did not do.

00:02:23.080 I don't even know how to process it.

00:02:25.560 All this as the prosecution releases a new photo of Brian Kohlberger

00:02:31.740 hours after the quadruple murders.

00:02:36.580 And it is the most chilling thing I have seen in years.

00:02:42.640 I can't stop looking at it.

00:02:44.880 We also now finally, finally have the 911 call

00:02:48.800 that was made from this house on 1122 King Street.

00:02:53.700 That's the murder house,

00:02:55.720 which for all this time they've been withholding from us.

00:02:58.600 Why? We didn't understand.

00:02:59.700 And there's a lot in there and nobody has been,

00:03:02.740 nobody has been following this case closer than Howard Bloom.

00:03:06.520 He's a journalist.

00:03:07.640 He's the New York Times bestselling author of the book,

00:03:10.100 When the Night Comes Falling,

00:03:11.860 a requiem for the Idaho student murders.

00:03:14.520 And he's my guest today.

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00:04:26.820 Howard, welcome back.

00:04:28.100 Nice to speak with you.

00:04:29.140 All right, let's kick it off with a 911 call. 0.75

00:04:31.760 It is four minutes.

00:04:33.460 We are going to listen to the whole thing.

00:04:35.520 Play it.

00:04:36.480 911 location of your emergency.

00:04:38.800 Hi, something is happening.

00:04:40.700 Something's happening in our health.

00:04:42.180 We don't know what.

00:04:43.000 What is the address of the emergency?

00:04:47.120 112.

00:04:55.480 What is the rest of the address?

00:04:58.220 Oh, King's Road.

00:05:00.720 Okay.

00:05:01.480 And is that a house or an apartment?

00:05:04.140 It's a house.

00:05:05.360 Can you repeat the address to make sure that I have it right?

00:05:09.040 I'll talk to you guys.

00:05:10.140 We live at the White, so we're next to them. 0.98

00:05:14.140 I need someone to repeat the address for verification.

00:05:17.160 The address?

00:05:18.400 1122 King Road.

00:05:20.640 And what's the phone number that you're calling from?

00:05:23.260 What's your phone number?

00:05:25.240 And tell me exactly what's going on.

00:05:26.880 One of the roommates has passed out, and she was drunk last night, and she's not waking up.

00:05:35.280 Okay.

00:05:35.820 Oh, and they saw some man in their house last night.

00:05:38.720 Yeah.

00:05:41.840 Hi, this is the phone.

00:05:42.640 And are you with the patient?

00:05:43.700 Okay, I need someone to keep the phone.

00:05:45.740 Stop passing it around.

00:05:47.600 Can I just tell you what happened pretty much?

00:05:49.500 What is going on currently?

00:05:51.720 Is someone passed out right now?

00:05:53.820 I don't really know, but pretty much at 4 a.m.

00:05:56.580 Okay.

00:05:57.040 I need to know what's going on right now if someone has passed out.

00:05:59.640 Can you find that out?

00:06:01.240 Yeah, I'll come.

00:06:01.980 Come on, but then you've got to go check.

00:06:05.040 But we have to.

00:06:13.500 Is it passed out?

00:06:14.620 Okay, one moment.

00:06:35.920 I'm getting help started that way.

00:06:37.820 Okay, thank you.

00:06:42.620 Okay.

00:06:44.620 I'm getting help.

00:07:14.600 Okay, and how old is she? 0.71

00:07:20.080 Um, she's 20.

00:07:21.140 I'm on camera.

00:07:22.880 20, you said?

00:07:24.740 Yes, 20.

00:07:25.740 Okay.

00:07:28.180 Hello?

00:07:30.920 Hello?

00:07:31.460 Okay, I need someone to stop passing the phone around because I've talked to four different people.

00:07:36.280 Okay, sorry.

00:07:37.060 They just gave me the phone.

00:07:38.260 Is she breathing?

00:07:40.500 Hello?

00:07:41.560 Is she breathing?

00:07:43.760 No.

00:07:44.660 Okay.

00:07:45.040 I can't talk to them, but I need you to talk to me.

00:07:56.400 Hello?

00:07:57.400 Okay.

00:07:58.400 I have already sent the ambulance and law enforcement stay on the line.

00:08:04.560 If there's a defibrillator available, send someone to get it now and tell me when you

00:08:07.720 have it.

00:08:08.720 Say that again. 0.71

00:08:09.720 There's a police here right now.

00:08:11.720 Okay.

00:08:12.720 Do you have a defibrillator?

00:08:13.720 Yes, you have one.

00:08:14.720 Are you talking to the officer?

00:08:15.720 Yes.

00:08:16.720 Okay.

00:08:17.720 I'm going to let you go since he's there with you and can help you.

00:08:31.720 Okay.

00:08:32.720 Thank you.

00:08:33.720 Bye.

00:08:34.720 Okay.

00:08:35.720 Wow.

00:08:36.720 Incredibly disturbing.

00:08:37.720 Just so the audience understands that the murders happened at 4 a.m.

00:08:41.720 That call did not get placed until almost noon the next morning, 11 55 a.m.

00:08:49.720 And for all this time, they have not released the 911 call.

00:08:52.720 It wasn't until this week.

00:08:54.720 We finally got to hear it.

00:08:56.720 We believe not totally confirmed, but we believe that the girl who made the call initially was

00:09:01.720 Bethany Funk.

00:09:02.720 One of the two roommates who survived.

00:09:04.720 The other roommate is named Dylan Mortensen.

00:09:07.720 She's the one who saw an intruder, which they were trying to tell the 911 operator who

00:09:12.720 wasn't in the mood to talk about what happened the night before.

00:09:15.720 But those are the two surviving roommates.

00:09:17.720 So we believe that's Bethany Funk who could barely get sentences out. 1.00

00:09:22.720 And Howard, you know, the remarkable thing, of course, is that they're talking about their

00:09:26.720 roommate having been drunk and she isn't waking up.

00:09:31.720 And just the one roommate, they're not.

00:09:34.720 I am assuming that they had found Zanna Kurnodal, who was on the second floor with her boyfriend,

00:09:40.720 Ethan, because they are not saying for they only had three of the female roommates, but

00:09:45.720 they're not saying four of our friends are dead.

00:09:47.720 They're saying one girl's passed out and she was drunk last night.

00:09:50.720 We think she's dead.

00:09:51.720 Right.

00:09:52.720 It seems that they did not even go up to the third floor.

00:09:55.720 What's so, you know, horrific.

00:09:57.720 You just listen to the hyperventilation.

00:10:00.720 It's just it's so poignant what they went through.

00:10:04.720 And the idea, first of all, that they did not make the call, as you pointed out, until

00:10:10.720 about eight hours after the crimes took place.

00:10:13.720 And it's just been released that they were up that morning, one of the girls at 730,

00:10:19.720 another at about 820, and they were making other calls and texts.

00:10:23.720 And they still wait until 1150 or so to call the police.

00:10:29.720 And that's sort of hard to understand.

00:10:31.720 And yet, you know, these children and they are children were overwhelmed by this.

00:10:37.720 And part of their reluctance, why they might not have called the police and the fact that

00:10:41.720 they were drunk, they didn't they didn't want to face the reality.

00:10:44.720 We all hate to face some possible things.

00:10:47.720 But you can see from the dispatcher how the kids, the students in this college town felt

00:10:54.720 the adults react to them.

00:10:56.720 We saw that on the police videos earlier when they come to the house on the noise

00:11:02.720 disturbances calls, how the cops go out of their way to dump their beer on the sidewalk.

00:11:08.720 There's a real antagonism between the students and the town.

00:11:12.720 And I actually that adds, I think, to their reluctance to have reached out for help.

00:11:18.720 But also, again, to it.

00:11:21.720 Yeah.

00:11:22.720 Well, I was just going to say it's very eerie so that she she calls and says something is happening.

00:11:26.720 And they say one of the roommates is passed out.

00:11:30.720 Um, and that's they're clearly referring to Zanna Cronotl because when she says how old

00:11:34.720 is she?

00:11:35.720 She says she's 20.

00:11:36.720 And both Kaylee and Maddie were 21.

00:11:39.720 And when you're that age, you know exactly the number of eight of years you are.

00:11:43.720 You know what I mean?

00:11:44.720 Like your your age means a lot, especially when you're 20 versus 21.

00:11:48.720 College roommates would absolutely have all the other ages in their heads of their roommates. 0.89

00:11:52.720 And so she's saying she's 20.

00:11:54.720 So she clearly found Zanna.

00:11:56.720 But where was Ethan?

00:11:57.720 Because our understanding was if memory serves, I didn't go back and look this up, that he

00:12:02.720 was found closer to the doorway of the bedroom that he was in Zanna.

00:12:06.720 They don't mention him.

00:12:08.720 I don't think she's found Zanna yet.

00:12:11.720 What I think and the way I reconstruct it is the door was closed and they were knocking

00:12:17.720 because when they go up, I think it's Hunter Johnson.

00:12:21.720 One of the friends goes up and knocks on the door.

00:12:24.720 And he's on that phone call.

00:12:25.720 Right.

00:12:26.720 And he's calling their names.

00:12:27.720 He goes, Zanna, Ethan.

00:12:29.720 And then to his credit, I mean, the young man's a hero.

00:12:34.720 He says, get out, get out.

00:12:36.720 He insists that they run away.

00:12:37.720 He doesn't want them to confront what's in there.

00:12:40.720 And I'm not sure they actually even get a glimpse into the room.

00:12:44.720 He shoes them away.

00:12:46.720 I don't think they ever really saw the bodies.

00:12:49.720 They just couldn't get a response.

00:12:51.720 And that's what was scaring them.

00:12:53.720 They were afraid to go into the room.

00:12:55.720 They knew what they would find.

00:12:57.720 They were, but they couldn't quite face this unthinkable reality.

00:13:01.720 And so they kept outside.

00:13:03.720 And Hunter was the one who went in and he behaved like a knight in shining armor and difficult situation.

00:13:12.720 That makes more sense.

00:13:14.720 Because they're not saying there's blood everywhere.

00:13:16.720 You know, you and I have talked about how there was so much blood.

00:13:18.720 How there was so much blood.

00:13:19.720 It seeped through the walls of the house.

00:13:22.720 They're not saying that.

00:13:23.720 They're like, we're not sure.

00:13:25.720 She, she was drunk last night.

00:13:26.720 She maybe passed out.

00:13:28.720 So clearly, but, but they did call 9-1-1.

00:13:31.720 And so they clearly thought something was wrong.

00:13:34.720 Maybe it was that she wasn't responding to texts and she wasn't, I don't know why they're not talking about Kaylee and Maddie.

00:13:40.720 Kaylee, I think, wasn't even supposed to be there that night.

00:13:42.720 She'd stayed over.

00:13:43.720 She had moved out, but she was back visiting Maddie.

00:13:45.720 But they're not mentioning Maddie.

00:13:47.720 Nobody seems to be aware that there also might be an issue on the third floor.

00:13:50.720 All of it is just so strange.

00:13:52.720 And then we have to talk about the thing you just mentioned, which is the text messages that morning.

00:13:57.720 But first, make your point.

00:13:58.720 Go ahead.

00:13:59.720 They had intimations that something was wrong, because you can see, after the night before, the morning before, at 4 a.m. approximately, when she confronts Koberger, and then she, this is Dylan, and then she goes back into her room.

00:14:14.720 The two surviving roommates are texting back and forth.

00:14:18.720 And they'd say, I'm freaked out.

00:14:20.720 We just learned this.

00:14:21.720 Yes.

00:14:22.720 I don't know what's happening.

00:14:24.720 Suddenly, Bethany, who's in the first floor room, tells her, run, come down here.

00:14:31.720 And it's almost like a prayer.

00:14:33.720 She wants her to get there safely.

00:14:35.720 And they stay there together until about 7.30 the next morning when they wake up.

00:14:39.720 And again, they start texting and calling people.

00:14:42.720 But they don't get to the police.

00:14:44.720 They're afraid to get to the next level.

00:14:46.720 They don't want to go into that room themselves, and they don't want to call the police.

00:14:50.720 They're all too impossible to deal with.

00:14:53.720 And it's a tragedy, I think, that the tape wasn't released earlier, because for the past two and a half years, these two young women, the surviving roommates, have been slandered, libeled.

00:15:05.720 Their characters have been impugned if they somehow were involved in some sort of cover-up.

00:15:09.720 And you can just listen to this tape, and you can see that they were not involved in the events, but they are victims, too.

00:15:18.720 Unbelievable.

00:15:19.720 So you've got—now we know.

00:15:21.720 This is all new.

00:15:23.720 You've got the two surviving witnesses.

00:15:25.720 Because all along, we knew that Dylan had seen the perpetrator, had seen an intruder that night wearing a COVID-type mask with bushy eyebrows around six feet tall in the house at 4 a.m., in the 4 a.m. hour.

00:15:38.720 And that they—she saw him.

00:15:41.520 It was unclear whether he saw her, but she froze.

00:15:44.140 He left.

00:15:45.260 She went back into her room, and we knew that they didn't call 911 until noon the next day.

00:15:49.060 So eight hours passed before she calls 911.

00:15:51.240 And it's been one of the big mysteries in this case.

00:15:53.140 Why didn't she call 911? 0.71

00:15:54.180 She saw an intruder in the house in the middle of the night.

00:15:56.720 And we know from the police affidavit, she said she was in a frozen shock phase, and that's why she didn't call.

00:16:03.320 But that just seemed very strange that it would take you eight hours, like you eventually would call.

00:16:08.960 But then they were saying, well, it was a neighbor that came in and called.

00:16:12.060 And you mentioned Hunter.

00:16:13.420 Yes, he did come in and call.

00:16:14.880 But we understand that was Bethany, and we think Dylan was also involved.

00:16:18.720 So these two roommates now we know were texting, were scared, were in the—the one ran to the other one's room.

00:16:26.640 They were in there hiding.

00:16:28.080 And it appears that they may have gotten a hold of Hunter to come over to help check things out.

00:16:32.760 But we still don't really understand the delay, why that didn't happen earlier than noon.

00:16:40.140 The delay is irrational.

00:16:42.580 It makes no sense, but this was an irrational moment.

00:16:46.060 They were going through an experience that was overwhelming them.

00:16:49.860 They couldn't process it, and they didn't want to process it.

00:16:53.340 That was—they refused to confront the logic of what was happening.

00:16:58.100 Just as when Dylan sees the assailant in the house, she can't speak out.

00:17:04.460 That's what I believe saves her life.

00:17:06.680 If she had spoken up, I think she would have been a victim, too.

00:17:10.440 But because she's too overwhelmed, she retreats into her silence and goes into her room.

00:17:16.240 The intruder leaves the house, and she survives.

00:17:19.940 But, you know, this is really a story about people who are overwhelmed by events and don't want to face what is happening because it's too large.

00:17:28.640 I write in my book, coincidentally, about how Koberger's father, as he's going across country with his son, as they're leaving for Christmas break, he too is getting intimations that something is wrong.

00:17:43.220 But he can't quite go all the way.

00:17:45.400 He can't make this realization that his son is a monster.

00:17:48.520 And in the same way, these two young women can't somehow cross this Rubicon of what has really happened in their house, what has really happened to their friends.

00:17:59.060 Yeah.

00:17:59.660 I'm going to read for the audience what we have now on the text messages between the two surviving roommates, Dylan Mortensen and Bethany Funk, from 4.22 to 4.24 a.m.

00:18:12.260 And we know—we know that the murders happened between 4 a.m. and 4.17 a.m.

00:18:17.720 So this is right after—clearly, it appears Dylan started texting Bethany right after she saw the intruder.

00:18:25.820 So DM to BF, no one is answering.

00:18:28.660 Not sure what preceded this.

00:18:29.980 This is what we have.

00:18:31.100 DM to BF, I'm really confused right now.

00:18:33.800 DM to Kaylee Gonsalves, who we now know is upstairs deceased.

00:18:38.400 Kaylee, DM to Gonsalves again.

00:18:40.760 What's going on?

00:18:42.260 Then Bethany texts to DM. 0.93

00:18:44.700 Yeah, dude, WTF.

00:18:46.340 Then Bethany to Dylan. 0.96

00:18:49.300 Zanna was wearing all black.

00:18:51.860 I don't understand why she would say that.

00:18:53.780 Then Dylan to Bethany.

00:18:54.980 I'm freaking out right now.

00:18:56.380 Then Dylan to Bethany.

00:18:57.720 No, it's like a ski mask almost, she says.

00:19:00.640 Bethany to Dylan.

00:19:02.300 STFU. 0.99

00:19:03.140 You know, shut the F-U-F up. 0.99

00:19:05.000 Bethany to DM. 0.98

00:19:06.720 Actually, DM to BF.

00:19:09.380 Like he had something over his forehead and little mouth.

00:19:15.800 This is changing.

00:19:16.860 I mean, really, this sounds like, she says ski mask.

00:19:20.220 What she later told the cops was like a COVID mask.

00:19:23.640 Here's Dylan back to Bethany.

00:19:25.260 Uh, I'm not kidding.

00:19:27.480 I'm so freaked out.

00:19:29.340 Bethany to Dylan.

00:19:30.340 So am I.

00:19:31.420 Dylan to Bethany.

00:19:32.260 My phone is going to die.

00:19:33.760 Bethany to Dylan.

00:19:34.640 Come to my room.

00:19:35.640 Run.

00:19:36.560 Down here.

00:19:37.660 And then we understand that's what she did. 0.56

00:19:40.220 So they go together into the same room.

00:19:42.680 But then, but then we have to talk about the texts the next morning, because what, what

00:19:48.400 we see is that, um, okay.

00:19:52.700 At 730, the next morning, Bethany called her father at 730 in the morning.

00:20:00.460 She called her father, Howard.

00:20:02.520 I don't get how we get past 8 a.m.

00:20:07.040 Before a police officer or other adults showed up at that house.

00:20:11.380 They don't want to face it.

00:20:13.480 When you talked about, when they say Zana is in black, they're trying to find a rational

00:20:17.500 reason, explanation of this figure that they see in black in the house.

00:20:22.160 They go, well, maybe that wasn't a man you saw.

00:20:24.720 Maybe that was Zana who, who you saw.

00:20:27.520 And you shouldn't have to worry about it.

00:20:29.480 Again, this is just, just too large.

00:20:32.660 The moment is too large for these people to process.

00:20:35.600 They're overwhelmed by it.

00:20:37.040 I don't think they'll ever.

00:20:37.820 And there's more, there's more.

00:20:39.200 So Bethany called her father at 730 the next morning.

00:20:43.220 She also made several other phone calls before the 911 call and also took photos between 841

00:20:51.600 and 842.

00:20:53.860 At 805, Dylan, switching over from Bethany to Dylan now, began using Insta.

00:20:59.480 Between 8.05 and 11.57 a.m., Dylan's cell phone accessed Instagram, Snapchat, Yik Yak,

00:21:10.080 and TikTok, according to a filing from the defense.

00:21:14.760 Now, that could be Dylan trying to see whether Zana or anyone else has been on and posted

00:21:25.960 to those apps.

00:21:27.600 I mean, that could absolutely be one girl.

00:21:29.580 Because they were very prolific social media posters trying to see.

00:21:32.840 I would believe they were just looking for diversions.

00:21:36.560 What would be most interesting, and I think the defense will want to get a hold of, is

00:21:42.820 what did the one girl say to her father when she called at 730 in the morning?

00:21:48.060 What was the substance of that conversation?

00:21:51.660 Did they talk about the instance?

00:21:53.600 And why didn't the father then call 911 if she had discussed the matter with him?

00:21:59.120 Why did it, it was 730 in the morning?

00:22:00.700 That, to me, is the more inexplicable question that still needs to be answered.

00:22:10.000 And what also is interesting, all these questions that you're raising, this is just what the

00:22:15.500 defense is going to do.

00:22:17.800 Because there's no logical explanation for them.

00:22:21.600 And they're going to try to raise as much doubt as possible with the jury.

00:22:26.320 And that's what this trial is all going to be about, trying to find reasons to raise

00:22:31.880 doubt from things that seem, on one level, odd, but unfolded in real life.

00:22:39.360 Well, one of them, I'm not sure which of the roommates, but one of them called their

00:22:43.660 father at 1139 a.m.

00:22:46.180 So again, you know, either again, if it was the one gal who'd already called her father

00:22:51.720 or for the first time.

00:22:52.760 Um, and, um, so that was 1139 and then it was 1155 that they called the 911 operator.

00:22:58.980 So it seems like perhaps, okay, so it was Bethany who called her father at 730.

00:23:03.700 And again, we believe it was Bethany who called 911 eventually.

00:23:07.440 Um, and then at 1139, there was another call to a father by 1155, they were calling 911.

00:23:14.140 So perhaps, and that last call to the father, he was like, call 911.

00:23:17.300 And we know that actually, I think he said, call your friends, get your friends down here

00:23:22.780 when the father, that's what brought the kids from the fraternity, uh, down there to look.

00:23:28.460 And that's when the, when they had more people there, they felt protected in a way.

00:23:33.620 And then they called the police.

00:23:35.440 All right.

00:23:35.960 Now we'll get onto, uh, what the defense is revealing, what we've, what we're learning

00:23:39.660 about Kohlberger in a minute, which is even more fascinating than this, if that's possible.

00:23:43.200 But I just want to spend one minute first on these 911 calls, um, and, and what's going

00:23:48.400 on with the roommates because Steve Gonsalves, who's Kaylee's father has reacted.

00:23:52.880 He went on news nation on Friday to that call, listening to the four minute call that we all

00:23:57.240 just did.

00:23:57.720 Here is SOT 51.

00:23:59.160 I always wanted it to make more sense.

00:24:01.780 Like any murder, your, your brain wants to gravitate towards how make this make sense,

00:24:08.680 make this make sense.

00:24:09.440 But the truth is murder never makes sense.

00:24:13.540 This is a psychopathic person who does something that breaks the norm of all of our consciousness.

00:24:21.160 All of our minds are just struggling with the fact that this has happened.

00:24:25.460 So we can logically try to make it make sense, but it's not really going to make sense.

00:24:33.040 It's, it's not Hollywood where they try to make it all fit together in real life.

00:24:39.200 If you're just sitting there dumbfounded, like, why can somebody be killed in their bedroom?

00:24:46.340 He, he also spoke to Hunter Johnson.

00:24:49.620 Uh, you know, you, you're describing him as behaving heroically who went over there and

00:24:54.160 actually did apparently open up the door and see his best friend, Ethan Chapin dead along

00:24:59.360 with his friend, Zana Kurnodal.

00:25:01.200 Uh, Steve Gonsalves spoke to that as well on news nation on Friday.

00:25:05.800 Take a listen. 0.98

00:25:06.340 I talked to Hunter directly and, um, it sucks. 0.99

00:25:13.040 He had a broken soul. 0.96

00:25:14.500 This is a man who's seen his best friend dead, you know, like dying, like gone.

00:25:21.540 So, um, we exchanged a moment and I talked to him and he was trying to protect everyone

00:25:28.760 in that house to not go through what was overwhelming him at the moment.

00:25:34.300 So I don't know about the details of upstairs, downstairs, door open, door not, but in the

00:25:41.380 bigger picture, it doesn't really matter.

00:25:42.920 He was literally just responding to what he probably thought was a prank thinking his

00:25:49.580 friend, his best body had these girls rolling and, um, he showed up there and he, he seen

00:25:57.640 the opposite of our prank.

00:25:59.080 And, um, I seen it in his eyes.

00:26:02.100 He, he was broken.

00:26:03.360 He was very broken from what he had seen.

00:26:07.240 That's awful.

00:26:08.460 But Howard, you know, he raises a good point in that here we are with the benefit of 2020

00:26:13.400 hindsight, knowing what happened in that house that night, those girls did not know.

00:26:17.760 And your mind would not go to a murderer came in here and killed everyone.

00:26:24.140 You know, they probably would go to, I sense danger and I saw someone strange, but you know,

00:26:30.560 our instincts are generally like, don't get everybody spun up for nothing.

00:26:34.440 Like calm down, right?

00:26:36.580 Like it's probably a prank.

00:26:38.880 And yet they're also realizing in one part of their mind that something is very wrong and

00:26:44.600 they just don't want to go there yet.

00:26:46.160 They don't want to give into that.

00:26:48.220 It's as if you don't want to get the doctor's diagnosis of some horrible illness.

00:26:53.160 And, and Mr.

00:26:53.840 Gonsalves talks about, you know, there's no understanding of what happened.

00:26:58.820 That's going to be the defense's whole case.

00:27:01.940 There's no motive and you're never going to get really a motive for this entire case.

00:27:06.440 That makes sense.

00:27:07.180 Maybe you'll, you'll hear a story in the court, but how can you rationally explain anyone

00:27:12.320 killing four young people in cold blood?

00:27:14.780 There is no reason that makes sense for any reasonable thinking person.

00:27:20.600 Okay.

00:27:21.280 Now let's talk about Kohlberger because the stuff on him is just chilling.

00:27:27.320 Incredibly.

00:27:28.680 We have now seen a photo.

00:27:31.840 Okay.

00:27:32.600 That's been released of Brian Kohlberger.

00:27:35.160 They say this was taken from his own phone.

00:27:38.440 All right.

00:27:38.880 They've revealed now that the state intends to introduce a photograph of Brian Kohlberger.

00:27:44.460 It's a selfie that he took from his own phone.

00:27:47.100 The night of the murders that the morning after, Oh my God, look at it.

00:27:51.620 The murders took place between four and four, 17 AM on the, in the early morning hours of

00:27:56.840 November 13th.

00:27:58.000 This is from 1130 AM.

00:28:00.660 This would have been six hours after he allegedly committed quadruple murder, which he denies.

00:28:08.440 He looks bloodless.

00:28:11.440 He looks like a vampire with no color whatsoever in his face.

00:28:18.460 He looks gaunt and he is giving the thumbs up sign. 0.97

00:28:24.780 What in the hell is this, Howard?

00:28:27.740 What the defense is going to say, you look at him, he might look gaunt. 0.96

00:28:34.300 He might look like a vampire, but you don't see any blood and you don't see any blood in

00:28:39.120 his bathtub behind him.

00:28:40.640 And you don't see any blood on the shower curtain.

00:28:43.720 They're going to say, if he just, if he is the murderer, where was the blood?

00:28:48.680 And the prosecution at the same time introduced that photo to show his bushy eyebrows that

00:28:55.280 Dylan Mortensen, when she made the identification of the intruder.

00:28:58.960 Let's put it back up there.

00:29:00.120 I hadn't been looking at it for that purpose, but yes, it does.

00:29:02.760 It does show some bushy eyebrows.

00:29:04.420 Keep going.

00:29:04.820 And that's what they're going to say.

00:29:05.820 But also look at his knuckles.

00:29:07.800 Do they seem sort of red?

00:29:09.940 I don't know.

00:29:10.720 I was trying to look at it closely, but other than is looking like a, you know, a really weird

00:29:16.980 continence, but there's no crime to be weird.

00:29:19.900 You don't see any blood.

00:29:21.440 You don't see any scratches on him.

00:29:23.340 Uh, and again, that bathroom curtain in the background, when the police go to his apartment,

00:29:28.780 when they have the search warrant after his arrest, there's no bathroom curtain there that

00:29:33.900 they make a point of that.

00:29:35.620 So clearly if this was his, it's got psycho vibes, it's definitely got psycho vibes from

00:29:40.820 the movie psycho in the shower, right?

00:29:43.120 With the guy committed a murder with a knife, like he's wearing all white. 0.99

00:29:48.820 It's buttoned up to the top.

00:29:50.320 It's, it almost feels like a murderer trolling us.

00:29:54.000 And we know from the police affidavit, Howard, that this would have been taken about an hour

00:29:58.880 after he went back to, if the cops theory of the case is right, based on police data and

00:30:04.460 cell phone data.

00:30:05.100 Um, he went back to the site of the murders around nine 30 in the morning and apparently

00:30:11.200 checked on the scene.

00:30:12.660 And we know now, of course, nothing was happening at the scene at that time.

00:30:16.200 We inside the girls may have been texting, but the police had not yet been alerted and look

00:30:21.260 at him.

00:30:21.540 Then he, he appears to have gone back home, gone into his bathroom and taken this bizarre

00:30:27.280 selfie.

00:30:28.540 It's, it's, it's extremely disturbing and disquieting at the same time, both the defense

00:30:36.140 and the prosecution are going to be able to use that photograph for their own purposes.

00:30:41.440 Again, the defense will make the case, no blood, no scratches, nothing to hide, no, no crime

00:30:47.760 to be weird.

00:30:48.940 And the prosecution is going to say, you know, look at the bushy eyebrows and they might even

00:30:54.320 try to raise the question of the thumbs up.

00:30:56.420 What's he giving a thumbs up for?

00:30:58.540 Mm-hmm.

00:30:59.880 So that I can't stop looking at it.

00:31:02.560 This is just so deeply disturbing, but that's not the worst thing that's happened to Brian

00:31:07.000 Kohlberger, uh, over the past couple of years, as the case against him has been developed.

00:31:11.840 This may be, I mean, you and I've talked many times about what we think of the evidence.

00:31:15.480 And I think we both think one of, if not, well, there are two most problematic things,

00:31:19.780 the DNA on the knife sheath, which has been affirmatively linked to be, it is Brian Kohlberger's.

00:31:24.600 And also the fact that when they arrested him at his parents' home in the Poconos a few

00:31:29.820 weeks later, he was stuffing his trash into little Ziploc baggies with the intention of

00:31:34.860 disposing it, we believe, into the neighbor's trash, which is what he'd been doing, according

00:31:38.960 to the cops over the past few nights.

00:31:41.240 So those are bad, bad, bad facts for him.

00:31:44.280 But so is the latest data on the K-Bar knife.

00:31:49.160 They've never found the murder weapon.

00:31:51.180 They found the knife sheath in the bed with the two girls, Kaylee and Maddie.

00:31:54.820 And it had touch DNA on the knife snap, a snap of the sheath, which they then linked, thanks

00:32:02.420 to genetic genealogy trees, back to the father of Brian Kohlberger, which is then what got

00:32:07.780 them to Brian Kohlberger, who was only 10 miles away.

00:32:10.720 And then once they got him in custody, they did an affirmative DNA test of his cheek swab.

00:32:15.320 And that was 100% plus whatever the numbers are.

00:32:18.160 They're astronomically in the favor of it being him and his DNA on that knife sheath snap.

00:32:23.940 But now they are revealing that they may not have found the murder weapon, Howard, but

00:32:30.700 they certainly found some incriminating things on Brian Kohlberger's Amazon.

00:32:36.200 Yes.

00:32:37.100 I mean, Brian Kohlberger bought a knife just like the one that was used or left behind at

00:32:43.640 the murder scene with the knife sheath with the Marine insignia, a K-Bar knife, in March

00:32:48.800 before he even came out to Washington State University.

00:32:54.380 That would suggest that when he drove across country that summer with his father, he had

00:33:00.440 the knife and a sharpening tool he'd also bought, packed up in his belongings, taking out to

00:33:06.100 Washington State for whatever reason.

00:33:08.480 And he wasn't a hunter.

00:33:09.760 There's no evidence that he ever went hunting.

00:33:12.480 What also has been revealed is that after the murders and the knife has now disappeared,

00:33:19.780 his Amazon account or the account that's shared by Kohlberger and his family members, he was

00:33:27.700 clicking on other knives as if to purchase them again.

00:33:31.200 The defense is going to say that the Amazon algorithm just sends you there.

00:33:37.080 If you bought a knife in the past, they'll send you there again.

00:33:40.800 But buried in the prosecution's filings, they're saying that they're going to have a witness.

00:33:49.980 They mentioned that just yesterday, who's going to testify to him having possession of a K-Bar

00:33:56.200 knife.

00:33:57.080 Will this be a family member?

00:33:58.600 I found that sort of interesting.

00:34:00.540 Could a family member be going to the stand to testify against Brian?

00:34:06.260 Wow.

00:34:06.860 I mean, they would feel an obligation, I think, to do it.

00:34:09.160 I just feel like the whole country has, you know, been interested in this case.

00:34:14.540 These family members, the sister in particular, I think there are two sisters, they, I just

00:34:20.580 feel like they'd have to do what's right if they knew it.

00:34:23.020 But we'll find out.

00:34:24.340 The thing about Amazon is just so fascinating.

00:34:26.680 So what we're saying is, you know, they had not been public until now.

00:34:29.660 One of the sisters I just found out, excuse me, is writing a book, which is sort of interesting.

00:34:33.520 What?

00:34:34.660 Yes.

00:34:35.080 Oh, my God.

00:34:36.260 Oh, well, she's welcome to come on the Megyn Kelly show to promote it, because I'd love

00:34:38.880 to ask her some questions.

00:34:40.120 Truly.

00:34:40.500 She can't publish until the gag order is lifted, but she's writing away from what I hear.

00:34:44.860 I've been told from reliable sources.

00:34:46.340 Well, so it's very interesting that he would have potentially gone back on Amazon searching

00:34:52.740 for another K-bar knife and knife sheath.

00:34:56.540 You could go many directions with that.

00:34:58.660 Like, he lost the knife sheath and didn't have the knife anymore because he disposed of

00:35:05.200 it.

00:35:05.400 It was the murder weapon.

00:35:06.380 And therefore, in case the police ever came knocking, he wanted to have that knife that

00:35:12.420 they would see in his Amazon history he purchased back in March before he got there, still sitting

00:35:17.380 in his room without any traces of blood on it.

00:35:20.120 See, I'm a good little boy.

00:35:21.420 I still have my knife and it's not anybody's murder weapon.

00:35:24.240 Or, you could make the case he had more murders in store that he considered doing it again.

00:35:31.500 That's the chilling hypothesis that the prosecution, I think, is going to try to make.

00:35:37.200 And that's how they're going to justify any shortcuts that were taken in this case.

00:35:41.580 We had to move quickly.

00:35:43.400 Here we had a murderer they're going to claim, allege, who was ready to kill again.

00:35:48.600 What was the, do you have the, do you remember the timeframe off the top of your head where

00:35:51.980 he started to search for a new Amazon, on Amazon for a new K-bar knife?

00:35:58.160 It's days after the murders, within 24 hours or so.

00:36:03.640 Oh my God, that's chilling.

00:36:06.120 Interesting too.

00:36:07.000 You mentioned the IgG, the genetics genealogy.

00:36:10.620 That was a key part of the case before.

00:36:13.240 Well, the defense, Kohlberger's defense is now sort of, would concede.

00:36:17.200 That was, uh, Brian Kohlberger's, uh, DNA on the knife sheath.

00:36:23.660 The real question now, what's going to be the focus of this trial is how did the knife

00:36:28.740 sheath get there?

00:36:30.020 We're going to, the defense is going to claim that Brian Kohlberger was never in the house.

00:36:36.060 He didn't put it there.

00:36:37.220 The real perpetrators, uh, put that knife sheath there and somehow they had gotten, uh, Kohlberger's

00:36:43.720 DNA on it.

00:36:45.160 That is such a stretch.

00:36:46.700 I mean, what I'm gleaning from what's getting released now is the defense knows it's, I

00:36:53.400 don't want to say it has lost, but it's got an enormous uphill battle.

00:36:58.060 And you tell me, cause you've been following it so closely.

00:37:00.540 It appears to me they're now just doing what they can to mitigate the expected bad results

00:37:06.380 as opposed to truly try to get a not guilty, which I'm sure they'd love, but I think they're

00:37:11.000 getting realistic.

00:37:11.600 I think in the back of the defense's mind, and this is what I'm hearing, uh, is they're

00:37:19.860 trying to avoid the death penalty.

00:37:21.740 Just last week, I think it was March 12th or so, uh, Brad Little, the governor of Idaho,

00:37:28.700 signed a law that makes the firing squad the primary form of execution in the state.

00:37:35.140 That, that's what happens.

00:37:36.340 You get convicted in a death penalty case, you go before the firing squad.

00:37:40.640 That's your sentence.

00:37:41.840 And Koberger's team is now trying to do whatever they can to avoid it.

00:37:48.000 The key to that defense is they've raised, uh, that Koberger has, is on the autistic spectrum.

00:37:56.740 And they're saying that he's has an inability to concentrate, to focus his presence in the

00:38:03.240 courtroom, uh, will disturb people.

00:38:06.400 And they're saying that will be prejudiced jurors and therefore that the death penalty should

00:38:11.040 be taken off the table because of that.

00:38:13.900 I believe, and this is just my, my theory, my hypothesis is that they don't think that

00:38:18.940 will fly, but they're hoping down the road that if Koberger still wants this case to go

00:38:25.720 to trial, that they're going to be able to say because of his autistic spectrum, uh, profile that

00:38:32.360 he can't make his own decisions, that they have to make the decisions for him and that

00:38:36.660 they want to enter into a plea deal.

00:38:39.060 Will the prosecution go along with that?

00:38:42.760 Well, that's, uh, that's what we'll see.

00:38:44.920 That's going to be the, I think the big drama of this trial.

00:38:48.520 So they are, you think they're now, because now they're saying he has, he's on the autism

00:38:53.240 spectrum that he has obsessive compulsive disorder and that he has something called developmental

00:38:59.520 coordination disorder.

00:39:01.780 And, and so is the purpose of saying all that to set up, I mean, I don't know how you'd use

00:39:07.860 that to, to plead insanity.

00:39:09.260 That's a long leap to go from that stuff to insanity.

00:39:13.220 Or is the purpose of that just to be like a mitigating factor to avoid death penalty?

00:39:19.160 Well, it was done to avoid the death policy, but also buried into that, uh, motion is they

00:39:26.040 talk in great detail, which I sort of found surprising about Kohlberger's inability to

00:39:31.860 process information and to, this is a PhD graduate candidate, and also to work with them, to give them

00:39:38.800 the information that they need.

00:39:40.200 They say that they're hampered by Kohlberger.

00:39:42.960 So I think they're going to claim that he's unable to be in charge of his own defense, that

00:39:48.960 he can't make the right decisions.

00:39:50.420 And therefore they want to take over the case completely and make the decisions.

00:39:54.560 And they want without his permission to go forward to the state and try to make a plea deal.

00:40:01.820 Do you think there's any chance he's saying something behind the scenes, like I will testify

00:40:06.620 and they're trying, they're getting ready to use these things to say, your honor, you can't let

00:40:11.260 him do this.

00:40:11.940 It's definitely against his interests and we need to be able to overrule him in this fundamental

00:40:16.180 right.

00:40:16.520 Well, the state wants him to testify.

00:40:20.940 They want him, he's given this alibi that he was out, you know, looking at the stars at

00:40:26.740 4am on a freezing cloudy night when the murders took place in a rural park.

00:40:32.300 Uh, and the state is saying, well, since there are no witnesses, we want Kohlberger to get on

00:40:37.800 the stand and say that he was there.

00:40:39.700 And so far the defense is saying not so fast, we're going to bring up cell phone people who

00:40:46.460 can maybe put him somewhere else or raise questions.

00:40:50.080 Uh, but I think he will want to testify.

00:40:53.380 I think, and that's also part of, they will say his autistic spectrum behavior and they will

00:41:00.640 try to take the decision-making process out of Kohlberger's hands and maybe his, even his

00:41:06.580 family's hands too.

00:41:08.680 And maybe getting all of this, if they can get all this, these disorders, alleged disorders

00:41:13.240 into the record without him testifying, it mitigates some of the other things that you

00:41:18.140 and I have talked about that may come in like his increasingly dissembling behavior in the

00:41:23.920 classroom at Washington state, the antagonism of his professors and the weird potential

00:41:31.200 stalking of one of his female students and, you know, volunteering to help put her security

00:41:36.180 cameras in and not being able to take a hint.

00:41:39.000 Like they may be trying to, I mean, none of this stuff explains that everybody listening to this

00:41:43.380 knows somebody who's on the autism spectrum, who doesn't do any of that stuff.

00:41:46.960 You can be totally normal and be on the autism spectrum.

00:41:50.000 It might just be like a little socially awkward, not, none of that, nevermind OCD, which is

00:41:54.540 not like, and I don't know what developmental coordination disorder is, but it certainly doesn't

00:42:00.320 seem like it would explain any of that stuff, but there's a lot of very bizarre Kohlberger

00:42:04.360 behavior to explain.

00:42:06.980 Yes. 0.98

00:42:07.540 And, but I think, you know, you can be bizarre and you can be weird and still be a killer.

00:42:13.620 And they realizing they're, the state is trying to throw everything they can.

00:42:20.220 They're trying to now also claim that they didn't get the discovery information in a logical

00:42:26.580 form that the state's claiming that or the defense is claiming that the defense is claiming

00:42:32.040 that I apologize that they were, it was, they described it as if a snow globe was turned

00:42:36.820 upside down.

00:42:37.940 That's how all the files were given to them.

00:42:40.060 That was the sort of the image they use.

00:42:43.300 That's fine.

00:42:44.340 There's no, there's no, like, it's okay.

00:42:46.320 We have four months before the trial.

00:42:48.160 They're going to, that's what you have to do.

00:42:50.340 You have a three man team and assistants.

00:42:52.900 You have to go through all this stuff.

00:42:54.700 I don't think it's going to work.

00:42:57.040 They realize they're getting put into a corner.

00:43:00.160 What they're, if they don't make a plea deal, what their case is going to come down to

00:43:04.960 is they're going to say that they were other perpetrators that the state, that the defense

00:43:11.260 and the government should have, I mean, that the prosecution should have looked into and

00:43:16.780 they avoided them.

00:43:17.920 And they say they avoided them at their own peril.

00:43:21.080 That's their word.

00:43:21.800 They're almost threatening them.

00:43:22.780 They said, because you didn't do your job, we're going to go into the courtroom and we're

00:43:27.000 going to expose how you didn't do a good job.

00:43:29.540 And that might be more pressure for them trying to get a settlement to avoid what they're going

00:43:35.060 to claim is a slipshod job in making this case by the prosecution and the investigators.

00:43:42.040 But that's, you know, they still, they will go back time and time.

00:43:46.620 What we're going to hear about, I think this summer is the question we repeated by Ann Taylor.

00:43:52.100 How did this knife sheath get in that room?

00:43:55.360 Who put it there?

00:43:56.620 And that's what they're going to try to get the jury thinking about, that it was someone

00:44:01.100 other than their client, Brian Koberger.

00:44:04.480 The evidence of where his car was on the night in question is starting to shore up as well.

00:44:13.040 We saw the judge in the case, Judge Hippler, which again, is just a name.

00:44:18.520 You got it really got to hit the P when you say that hip it's hip, Hippler. 0.99

00:44:22.660 I don't understand why people keep these names that are so controversial or weird.

00:44:28.280 Like, I don't get it.

00:44:28.960 I would change my name.

00:44:30.440 It was better than Judge Judge, the first one, the first judge in the case.

00:44:34.040 That's right.

00:44:35.300 I guess we can forgive defense attorney Ann Taylor.

00:44:38.140 You know, she didn't, when her parents, when she was a kid, her parents might not know what

00:44:41.300 was going to happen there.

00:44:41.880 Anyway, um, Hippler just denied Kohlberger's request to bring in, uh, defense experts who

00:44:50.220 he wanted to offer testimony against both the Amazon shopping trip, who, as you point

00:44:56.180 out, I guess they were going to have their experts say, oh no, it was just like when

00:44:59.820 you order a vitamin and they assume your vitamin has run out and they send you a tickler, like

00:45:05.160 here are your vitamins.

00:45:06.100 Like, here's another knife, just in case you were planning on killing anything else.

00:45:10.760 Um, that's one.

00:45:12.620 And, but also they wanted to bring in an expert, uh, to talk about his movements, um, the night

00:45:18.860 in question.

00:45:19.660 And Hippler said, no, Hippler said you can have, um, you can have that done by, uh, streaming

00:45:27.840 video streaming during the hearing.

00:45:29.420 And, or he said, if we need to hear directly from the witnesses, we can, um, potentially

00:45:34.460 have an affidavit or a written declaration.

00:45:38.240 But when you, having looked at like the record of the car, where it's been, I mean, I'm looking

00:45:43.140 at the map and what it was basically going to show is he drove directly to their houses.

00:45:48.060 Like it's showing a pretty much a straight line.

00:45:50.860 Once he got near the house of going right to their houses, what did you make of the new

00:45:55.860 evidence on where his car was?

00:45:58.320 Well, the first part about what's so interesting about the cell phone, uh, triangulation, uh,

00:46:07.320 expert that the defense wanted to use, he's been used in other cases and his whole testimony

00:46:12.920 has been impugned.

00:46:13.940 They really had a search to find one guy who would testify and they, they, they brought

00:46:19.800 in a very practical, problematic, uh, expert, uh, who's not quite an expert, a Colorado judge

00:46:26.500 through his testimony out of the court in a previous case.

00:46:30.180 So, so this is the defense's expert.

00:46:32.920 Yes.

00:46:33.780 Uh, and that's interesting.

00:46:35.460 And I think that's why Hitler, uh, was saying we don't need this as for the car. 0.63

00:46:40.620 You know, they're going to keep on hammering away.

00:46:43.240 You have no picture of a license plate and you have no picture of anyone over the steering

00:46:48.760 wheel.

00:46:49.180 There's no clear photograph and that's, that's, they're going to make that case.

00:46:56.020 And they're also going to say it took the FBI three different times before they correctly

00:47:01.300 identified the car within a certain number of years.

00:47:05.000 And they're going to say the FBI couldn't make up their mind.

00:47:07.880 There's no license plate photo and there's no picture of a driver.

00:47:11.480 So all this other stuff is irrelevant.

00:47:13.580 You know, they're going to try desperately, but there's just so much evidence against

00:47:18.420 Koberger that I think the prosecution has a very, very strong case.

00:47:24.600 So what now here we are, uh, well, five months out from trial.

00:47:30.740 Uh, what are the odds this does go to trial, Howard?

00:47:33.880 Or do you think it actually has a chance of pleading out to, I mean, I can't imagine the prosecution

00:47:38.760 with a case like this would take anything other than a murder one confession and possibly

00:47:42.720 spare him the death penalty.

00:47:43.860 But what are the odds?

00:47:45.960 I think the defense, uh, the defense will try to get a, a plea deal.

00:47:51.640 I don't believe in Idaho, uh, that the Idaho officials will allow this case to be settled.

00:48:00.440 This case is at the heart and soul of Idaho.

00:48:04.300 Uh, it's been horrific for the whole state, uh, they can try to tear down, which the state

00:48:11.380 did the, the, the university did the murder house and make things go away. 0.69

00:48:16.040 This is never going to go away.

00:48:18.140 You've heard this, that cell phone call.

00:48:20.540 You've heard those students.

00:48:21.560 This is part of their life.

00:48:23.200 They want this case to, to end in a punishment.

00:48:27.180 And I think it will end with a conviction.

00:48:29.360 And I think Kohlberger, my belief is he'll have to be sentenced to face a firing squad.

00:48:34.820 I, I'm, I mean, I believe he did it and I would have no problem if a jury finds him guilty

00:48:38.600 of seeing that happen.

00:48:39.580 I don't know.

00:48:39.980 The firing squad, you hate to like, think about it, but like, would it really be so bad

00:48:44.020 to be in front?

00:48:44.580 I feel like a firing squad in some ways may be more humane than like the electric chair.

00:48:50.060 I don't, what's the debate about that?

00:48:52.020 Here's a, here's an argument that proves that in Idaho, that it's more humane.

00:48:56.580 Last spring or last October, they had a convict and they were going to use a lethal injection.

00:49:02.440 They wheeled him into what is called the execution chamber.

00:49:05.780 They strap him down.

00:49:07.940 They try to give him the lethal injection.

00:49:10.500 They give him eight lethal injections over a course of two and a half hours and none of

00:49:15.920 them work.

00:49:17.440 Was he like a cat?

00:49:19.080 Yes.

00:49:19.480 I mean, for some reason, they, the people doing these lethal injections were prison guards

00:49:25.200 rather than medical people.

00:49:27.020 And they just couldn't do it.

00:49:28.480 And he's has to be wheeled out.

00:49:30.700 And then his lawyers try to make the case.

00:49:33.300 Well, this is cruel and inhumane punishment to bring him again.

00:49:36.780 And the governor, uh, Brad Little, who just passed this firing squad law said, not on your

00:49:42.260 life, bring him back again.

00:49:44.040 What do you know how they do the firing squad?

00:49:46.380 I think we talked about this once before.

00:49:47.640 Did you say they have multiple shooters, so you don't know if you're the one who fired

00:49:50.680 the fatal shot?

00:49:51.900 They haven't worked out all the details.

00:49:54.280 All they've done so far, they originally made a $750,000 was put aside to build this

00:50:03.060 sort of firing squad execution chamber.

00:50:05.580 They've now said, for reasons that haven't been explained, they now need a million dollars

00:50:10.640 for this execution chamber.

00:50:13.120 So in this million dollar room, they're still debating whether or not these will be robo

00:50:17.480 guns or will they be people with bullets?

00:50:20.520 Will they be behind a wall?

00:50:22.580 Nothing has been determined yet.

00:50:26.380 Wow.

00:50:26.940 God, when you really start, it's just like any, whenever I start to hear about the death

00:50:29.880 penalty, I hear about the crime and I think I'm fine with it. 1.00

00:50:33.540 Do it. 0.95

00:50:34.340 I'll pull the trigger myself.

00:50:36.000 And then when you start to talk about the actual details of the state taking someone's

00:50:41.120 life, even someone as disgusting as this, I start to get uncomfortable with it.

00:50:45.680 And I think about my Catholic faith. 0.59

00:50:47.080 It's just one of those issues.

00:50:48.360 I don't know.

00:50:49.120 I still, net, net, I'm in favor of the death penalty.

00:50:52.700 Howard, I am in favor of you very much for all the great work you've been doing on this

00:50:57.360 case and keeping us up to date like nobody else.

00:50:59.940 Thank you.

00:51:00.780 Pleasure talking with you again.

00:51:02.000 Wow.

00:51:02.900 What are your thoughts?

00:51:03.600 You guys always write the best thoughts on this case and I do read them.

00:51:06.580 So send me an email, Megan at megankelly.com.

00:51:09.900 And by the way, it being Friday, check out megankelly.com and go there if you want two

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00:52:15.480 Thank you.

00:52:16.080 We'll see you Monday.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - March 21, 2025

Disturbing Idaho Murders 911 Call Released, and New Bryan Kohberger Selfie Revealed, with Howard Blum ｜ Ep. 1032

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