Disturbing NEW Video and Photos Show Armed Mystery Man at Nancy Guthrie's House, with Phil Holloway, James Fitzgerald, and Maureen O'Connell ｜ Ep. 1249
Nancy Guthrie, 84, was reported missing from her Tucson, Arizona home on Wednesday morning. She has not been seen since. Her family and friends reported her missing on social media last night, and she posted a message on her social media pages asking for help.
00:01:26.720And the FBI, in a statement given to this show and other media outlets yesterday, saying, quote, writing,
00:01:32.460The FBI is not aware of any continued communication between the Guthrie family and suspected kidnappers, nor have we identified a suspect or person of interest in this case at this time.
00:01:43.680But the FBI, we've now learned, has been brought in, as I've been reporting, kind of late, and then stiff-armed by the sheriff.
00:01:52.000As I've been reporting all week, that even though they've been saying it's a joint investigation, that my understanding was the sheriff's office was taking the lead, and the FBI was in a more back row role, well, that's now hit the public.
00:02:05.700And there are reports that, in fact, they were stiff-armed by the sheriff.
00:02:11.360Both agencies urging members of the public to come forward if they have any information.
00:02:16.760And now we have heard, again, directly from Savannah Guthrie on Instagram last night for the first time.
00:02:22.800She does not appear to be reading from a script, but her tone was not optimistic.
00:03:05.540Because we believe that somehow, someway, she is feeling these prayers, and that God is lifting her even in this moment and in this darkest place.
00:03:17.420We believe our mom is still out there.
00:04:13.400Savannah there, having a little makeup on, having done her hair a little bit.
00:04:18.140And, of course, you know, you have the online nuts who are like, I would never, if my mother were missing, I would never put on a stitch of makeup.
00:04:27.240Savannah has obviously had the hardest week plus of her life.
00:04:33.100Those videos showing her incredibly raw, without hair and makeup done, are what's real.
00:04:40.580And as somebody who does the hair and makeup virtually every day, I completely related to that feeling of when things are really hard, really hard, you don't do it.
00:04:53.720And it's part of your depression, your sadness, and your inability barely to get out of bed.
00:05:03.320So the fact that Savannah's functioning, was able to drag herself in front of the camera the past couple of times to issue those other videos, is pretty Herculean and impressive.
00:05:14.480And I saw her putting on a little makeup for the latest video as a very good sign of her mental health.
00:05:28.440And if you can just, like, make an effort at whatever, looking a little nicer, like a little bit more pop in your lip and the color, it's almost like a sign of, like, I will find myself again.
00:05:45.800That face that I present to the world every day, I'm still there.
00:06:19.740I thought for many days now, those guys, my belief is whoever wrote those ransom notes was an opportunist trying to take advantage of a suffering family.
00:06:31.140And I'll go through with you what I, I mean, I kind of outlined it in my head.
00:06:38.300And there was 41 minutes in that house.
00:06:40.700It was definitely, we know it was a kidnapper of sorts.
00:09:00.980I hope I'm wrong, because if I'm wrong, it means there's an actual kidnapper out there with Nancy Guthrie.
00:09:06.300But obviously, Savannah and her brother and sister did not believe that because they didn't pay the ransom.
00:09:13.060We're now well over 12 hours past the moment when it was due.
00:09:18.660And that $6 million ransom deadline has come and gone with no money deposited in the Bitcoin account, according to TMZ, which knows what the Bitcoin account, what its numbers are.
00:09:30.480They've been checking it to see if anybody's put any money in it all along.
00:09:33.320And their latest update was nothing was deposited.
00:09:35.760So they didn't pay the ransom, even though the family said, we'll pay, we're willing to pay on Saturday night.
00:09:41.940What they were really saying was, give us proof of life.
00:09:46.480You know, prove to us you have her, and we will pay.
00:09:49.800Or just proof that you have her, not even of life.
00:10:17.480We know they were in there for about 41 minutes, because we know the Nest cameras were taken out at 147, and Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker disconnected from her iPhone at 228.
00:10:29.480So we know it took about 41 minutes for the perpetrator to do whatever he did inside that home.
00:10:36.900No, it doesn't appear that he killed Nancy Guthrie in her home, because that pacemaker was still connected to the iPhone at 228 a.m.
00:10:46.240when it appears he took her from the home.
00:10:48.720It does appear he took her, because A, she's no longer there.
00:10:51.780B, the pacemaker disconnected from the iPhone at that hour.
00:10:55.220And C, there was blood, at least on the front stoop, and we believe inside the house.
00:11:01.160The sheriff continues to say there was DNA inside that they're having analyzed.
00:11:04.220That all would suggest someone took her, and that she was alive.
00:11:08.760I just can't get past, why would the pacemaker not have disconnected until 228 if she'd been killed prior to that?
00:11:15.560If she'd been killed, let's go down the theory of it was family, over at Annie and Tomas' house earlier in the evening, and he never actually did return her at 9.48 p.m.
00:11:26.560Like the sheriff said, okay, that would be on the pacemaker.
00:11:39.480And all the research we've done shows that a pacemaker updates periodically, like over the course of a few hours.
00:11:46.060It's not second by second to the iPhone.
00:11:47.900So it would be like maybe three hours, you get another upload from your pacemaker onto your iPhone of what your heart's done over the past few hours.
00:11:56.100And typically, it would be very boring, and you'd be happy to see a boring heart report.
00:12:01.120But if something massive happened, like you were in a scuffle or somebody was trying to kidnap you, one would think that would be reflected in your heart rate.
00:12:11.200And certainly, if you died, your pacemaker would reflect that you had died, that there was no heart activity.
00:12:20.180That would be on the record as of 228.
00:12:25.940And that's not what the sheriff's telling us.
00:12:29.440I mean, it makes no sense that the sheriff, if he saw that Nancy Guthrie had died prior to 228, would be engaging in this wild goose chase.
00:12:38.140Would be saying, I think she's alive, would be engaging, as the feds are, with the Guthrie family on responding to alleged impossible kidnappers.
00:12:45.800None of their behavior suggests they believe she's definitely passed, which they would know if her pacemaker reflected a death prior to 228 a.m.
00:12:56.800when it stopped communicating with its phone.
00:13:00.700So those are the things that we appear to know.
00:13:36.020Law enforcement is expected to release a surveillance photo showing a potential subject in the ongoing Nancy Guthrie investigation as soon as this afternoon, according to two senior law enforcement officials.
00:13:49.380Surveillance photo showing a potential subject.
00:14:31.480If you took her and you didn't submit a ransom demand right away and then two opportunists or one opportunist decided to bomb in and make a Bitcoin demand that you're not behind, you probably would have rushed to make your demand.
00:14:49.080Concerned that the Guthrie family was going to pay somebody other than you and you probably would have submitted a lock of hair or something to prove you were the actual kidnapper who had her.
00:15:00.860So it doesn't appear that somebody is hiding Nancy Guthrie for ransom at this point.
00:15:09.600If she was killed, the question is who and why.
00:15:14.700Was it someone who was stalking Savannah Guthrie?
00:15:19.820We don't have reports of actual stalkers, active stalkers.
00:15:23.100As I told you, I did receive information from a tipster on somebody who had been stalking Savannah along with others.
00:15:30.100And this person, I think, was led out of prison years ago, a few years ago.
00:15:35.400But there's nothing about an active stalking situation or certainly not somebody who they know.
00:15:42.060And I'm sure at this point the FBI knows if there was an active stalking situation and found out where those people were on the day that she disappeared.
00:16:00.480Well, stalker kind of suggests crazed fan.
00:16:03.020Or it could be somebody angry, angry with Savannah.
00:16:06.360Now, as our guest pointed out yesterday, sadly, that's kind of more likely if something were to happen to me or happen to Tucker because we're more controversial than Savannah Guthrie is.
00:16:17.360But it doesn't mean it can't happen in her case, too.
00:16:19.360Even like the cheery morning host can get some lunatic who decides she's awful because she did one report that touched on his favorite issue and he wants to make an example of her.
00:16:29.100And he's got a touch of the crazies and he does something about it.
00:16:33.160Okay, so it could be some sort of crazed NBC watcher, someone who either loves her, you know, sickly or hates her.
00:16:40.300It could be somebody who hates Nancy Guthrie.
00:16:44.060They're right now today taking the DNA of all the workers who worked on her home, trying to figure out whether they were in the home when they shouldn't have been, et cetera.
00:16:54.300They're just trying to rule people out right now.
00:16:56.340It could have been one of those people.
00:16:57.400Or it could have been somebody closer to home.
00:16:59.660It could have been a friend or a family member.
00:17:02.400And that's why they're looking down the road at Annie and Tomas.
00:17:06.900I don't think they're looking at Savannah who, by all accounts, was in New York when she got the call from her mother's friends or from her sister that they couldn't find their mother.
00:17:19.140And no one's even mentioned anything about the brother Cameron who's 61 and a retired fighter pilot who I believe lived out of town, too.
00:17:25.680He didn't show up until a couple days into this saga.
00:17:27.600So they're all fair game because they're family, and that's where you start.
00:17:33.600When it comes to the family, you've got to ask, what would the motive have been?
00:17:37.140You know, you do have to look at Annie and Tomas and ask, who's the beneficiary of any life insurance policy she had?
00:17:47.460Who's the main beneficiary of any will that Nancy Guthrie had?
00:17:52.960How much of a burden was Nancy Guthrie to those who were taking care of her?
00:17:56.540I mean, those are the questions that law enforcement will be asking, and those are the right questions.
00:18:01.540What was the dynamic between Nancy Guthrie and her family?
00:18:07.260What happens on the Today Show is they only paint a picture of the most happy, lovely things, and everyone's a family member to each other on that set.
00:18:18.960And obviously, your home life is absolutely perfect.
00:18:22.340And if they ever go home and do a shoot with your parents, that's only going to be painted in the most perfect light.
00:18:28.340And look, I'm just going to tell you, these are lies.
00:18:48.760They're literally right now in the Daily Mail, there's an article about how all these backbiters at NBC are feeling kind of bad now because Savannah was out for four to six weeks with a vocal cord surgery.
00:19:00.660She wasn't allowed to speak preceding this event.
00:19:03.840And they were gleefully leaking to the Daily Mail that the ratings went up when she was gone.
00:19:49.040Maybe Savannah financially, but she doesn't even live there.
00:19:54.020Savannah lives in lower Manhattan and is living a cosmopolitan New York life.
00:19:58.180It's the sister who lives 10 minutes away from the mother.
00:20:04.300And anybody with an 84-year-old mother knows that that can be potentially a heavy lift for the person who's actually there.
00:20:10.320All right, so these are all the things that they're going to be looking at and are looking at.
00:20:14.640But right now, other than this news we just get from Tom Winter at NBC, expected to release a surveillance photo showing a potential subject.
00:20:23.680That's all just subject in the investigation.
00:20:26.140We don't know of any actual real clues.
00:20:33.620They're looking at Annie Guthrie's car.
00:20:35.380They're looking at Nancy Guthrie's car.
00:20:38.560Just, we just, we have precious little to go on from the sound of it.
00:20:43.680Now, they're still looking into those notes because it's not completely impossible that the person who wrote them is a kidnapper, who does have Nancy or did have Nancy.
00:20:57.040And finally, now that the deadline has come and gone, the reporters who received them are starting to release a little more information.
00:21:05.320So, like, I think you can release the details at this point.
00:21:08.420TMZ's Harvey Levin was on CNN last night, revealing more about what was in the abductor's note that he read, which was the first one, which had the most information from the sound of it.
00:21:24.660Well, I mean, we talked about the second deadline, and there is a direct, stark statement about consequences if they didn't get that money.
00:21:43.140But if this really was the only communication between the kidnappers and Nancy Guthrie's family, right, was happening through the media, then we are well past that deadline and that Bitcoin account is empty.
00:21:54.920I'm just stating the very obvious here.
00:21:58.460Yeah, that's kind of the way I see it, too.
00:22:02.080And, you know, I raised this issue of maybe the second letter has a second Bitcoin address, but it doesn't make sense to me because why would Savannah, you know, look, Aaron, we didn't talk specifically, but I'll tell you now.
00:22:15.760The letter says that she will be returned within 12 hours back in the Tucson area.
00:22:22.640And then if you look at 12 hours, that's a radius of about 700 miles.
00:22:27.200That's how you calculated the, yeah, the map.
00:22:34.620We mentioned this in passing yesterday.
00:22:36.120Remember, I read you the Daily Mail piece that kind of referenced in passing that Nancy Guthrie had been watching her Sunday mass with friends.
00:22:46.960And that's, that was the answer to the mystery of Sunday morning.
00:23:53.580Well, like many of Sheriff Nanos' statements, that did not check out.
00:23:57.780Because she had not attended service in person in Arizona since the pandemic as broken by the Daily Mail.
00:24:02.620And every day since the Daily Mail broke that, we at the MK Show have been asking, so how did the family know that she wasn't allegedly at church?
00:24:14.520Like, what is that report based on if she wasn't actually going to church?
00:24:18.700Then we found out that there was a live stream, but that you couldn't see if you were a congregant who was participating in it.
00:24:26.240Then we found out that there was a chat along with the live stream, and we speculated here, could it possibly be that people reported in the chat that Nancy wasn't there?
00:24:36.420That this 84-year-old was joining the live stream chat?
00:24:39.140We had no idea, and no one would answer our questions.
00:24:41.640But now we know that Nancy did regularly gather with a small group of friends on Sundays to watch a live stream, not of her church in Arizona, but of her daughter Savannah's church in New York City.
00:25:02.540After Nancy did not show up to watch this live stream, on February 1st, Sunday, last Sunday morning, a friend contacted Savannah's sister, Annie, which then set off the desperate search that still has not ended.
00:25:16.520The pastor of the Guthrie's New York City church spoke out today on the Today Show.
00:25:22.080I sat down with Pastor Michael Rosenda in the very pews she and Savannah often pray in.
00:25:29.400This is Savannah's church, and it's also Nancy's church, right?
00:25:34.800Over the years, Nancy would visit, and we got a chance to meet her and know her a little bit.
00:25:40.480And then during the pandemic, we started out of necessity filming our services, our prayers, our sermons, and putting it out there into the world.
00:25:50.520And during that time, Nancy started to watch.
00:25:59.400It's very annoying when these Johnny-come-latelys to the story, bomb in, try to pass judgment on those of us who have been here reporting it from the beginning aggressively and with misinformation.
00:26:11.040And that's what leads me to Hall Monitor Brian Stelter.
00:26:14.240Hall Monitor is out there tweeting the following.
00:26:17.440Online sleuths and internet commentators have sowed confusion in recent days about how exactly Nancy Guthrie's absence was first noticed on February 1st.
00:26:47.820Online sleuths and commentators have been trying to piece together what's real based on the sheriff's 180 reversals of his own comments if you just wait 24 hours.
00:27:00.780He is the one who said she didn't show up at church and someone at church noticed and called her family.
00:27:11.140The misinformation around this has just been pretty legion.
00:27:17.300That sheriff, I mean, she was snatched from her bed.
00:27:34.540Do your own homework before you try to lecture those of us who have been following this in its every detail.
00:27:41.800Because actually some of us really do care about getting the facts right and Hall Monitor.
00:27:47.520Some of us actually do have to worry about this kind of thing happening to us or our loved ones.
00:27:52.660So we're really fucking invested in making sure we get every fact correct.
00:27:57.280Unlike you, where you sit there with your tweets and think that you can weigh in and correct people like this show or Ashley Banfield or anybody else who is trying in good faith to get the facts of this case right.
00:28:10.220We sent Phil Holloway to Houston because we wanted someone of our own.
00:29:56.320So what are your first thoughts, having been on the ground for about 24 hours?
00:30:00.040Well, look, one thing that a good lawyer will do, whether you're a prosecutor, defense attorney, if you're a criminal lawyer and you're involved in a criminal case, one thing that's important to do is to go to the scene of the crime so that you can go on the ground, right?
00:30:18.560You want to see what the crime scene looks like.
00:30:23.400You want to just visualize how things are located with respect to other things that may be of interest, in this case, the mom's house versus Annie's house.
00:30:31.860So the one thing that I first noticed when I got out there, besides the giant scrum of, obviously, media personnel that have every inch of this very narrow roadway just kind of jam-packed with their vehicles and their equipment,
00:30:47.660I noticed that the terrain at the house and around the house would be something that would be very difficult to conduct an investigation in.
00:30:58.840You've got, as you see there on the screen, you've got a lot of the cacti.
00:31:04.160You've got shrubs that are, you know, two, three, four foot high.
00:31:07.880Lots of things that would block the view of the house, the front door, you know, from the roadway and vice versa.
00:31:15.780If you have the reading camera, it's not, it might see who's standing at the door, but it's not going to see what's out past all that shrubbery.
00:31:25.200And so I sort of took a walk around and then I looked at the area across the street from the house and I saw more of this, you know, rocky desert, traditional desert type terrain.
00:31:36.900And it's just, it would be a very difficult, challenging place to do an investigation if your investigation turns on trace evidence.
00:31:45.660And now we know that some of this does turn on trace evidence.
00:31:49.640I've also talked to some locals here who parenthetically tell me, you know, they don't have a lot of trust in the sheriff.
00:31:58.360They tell me that the morale in the department is not so great, that he has leadership problems within the department.
00:32:06.000And you start putting all this together and it tracks with the things that you just went through with respect to the sheriff.
00:32:14.380You know, I, on the way out here yesterday on the plane, I sent an email to, to the sheriff's office asking, hey, look, is there anybody there that would be willing to talk with me for five or 10 minutes?
00:32:27.500Because I would, I was interested in maybe doing an interview and showing the cop's perspective, right?
00:32:33.740Let them tell me and tell our audience what it's like from the perspective of law enforcement working a case like this where you're, you know, long on basically a mystery and short on leads.
00:32:46.840And you're up all night, every night working tirelessly trying to solve a case, right?
00:32:56.180It's just very, very grueling and hard work.
00:32:58.460So I was looking to see if I could get someone to talk about that side of things.
00:33:03.800I wasn't like looking for additional, you know, information about the case itself.
00:33:08.640And, you know, I got a very short response back saying the sheriff is the spokesman for this investigation and he is not granting any additional one-on-one interviews.
00:33:20.140So I guess he's just completely checked out, which makes sense.
00:33:24.060I mean, he's given some press conferences, Megan, that quite frankly were left me scratching my head.
00:33:30.220He released the scene way, way too early.
00:33:32.440You know, you have these blood droplets that were in the driveway and we had people that were able to go and access those within a day or so after this crime occurred.
00:33:44.200Lots of things about this that just leave me scratching my head.
00:33:47.720Yeah, they compromised it now because if and when they ever make an arrest, that person's going to say anything that is used against him from the crime scene, they're going to say it's compromised.
00:34:06.380There was no chain of custody on the house or the area around it.
00:34:10.120So this will wind up being a problem for them if they ever find a perpetrator.
00:34:15.200Phil, the deadline for the ransom has passed officially and it does not appear they paid it, according to TMZ, who has the Bitcoin address.
00:34:24.420And to me, it now seems clear from Savannah's latest message that all involved have concluded this was a hoax.
00:34:31.720If she didn't think it was a hoax, she would have paid the $6 million.
00:34:35.120So is that your understanding or your impression right now?
00:34:38.420It's my impression now and it's been my impression from the beginning.
00:34:42.320But since I've been here, it's sort of solidified that in my mind.
00:34:45.600I think that somebody was obviously trying to extort her or basically con her out of some money, right?
00:34:53.160But I don't think it's the people who took and probably killed Nancy Guthrie.
00:34:59.940And can I talk more about the blood droplets that you were just mentioning?
00:35:07.560I think Brian Enten was out there and he took some videos showing those blood droplets.
00:35:12.860And I've been talking with others here on the ground and getting a better feel for what that looked like.
00:35:19.280And, you know, in some of the video that I took that I think maybe you just showed, showed that the house, it's like this semicircular rock driveway.
00:35:27.640And sort of in the middle between the entrances and exits on that semicircular drive, there's this lots of cacti and shrubbery and other things like I mentioned.
00:35:37.480And so what you can sort of surmise happened is that there was some struggle in that house that caused her to bleed.
00:35:46.400Now, it wasn't the kind of bleeding that you would expect if, say, you cut an artery.
00:35:53.500More like, think about if you have ever had a bloody nose and you, you know, have blood that's just, gravity's taking it straight down and it's, you know, dropping droplets on the ground.
00:36:05.720And we also know that there's some DNA inside the house.
00:36:08.820I mean, it could be touch DNA from the cells left behind by whoever, or it could also be blood in there.
00:36:14.100It stands to reason that if you had blood droplets on the doorway or the doorstep, then you might have blood droplets just inside the door.
00:36:22.720And then those droplets come out to the top of the semicircular driveway and then they end.
00:36:30.100And so what that suggests to me is that somebody put her in a vehicle and drove her away from there.
00:36:36.660And so if that's the case, why didn't we have the search plane up that the sheriff's office had within hours?
00:36:42.520OK, we know the Border Patrol came in and had some dogs out there, but we don't know much about how the dogs were used and in what capacity to try to track some scent.
00:36:53.060And, you know, the whole thing just points to a scenario where maybe it was a burglary gone bad.
00:37:01.460And this is not necessarily inconsistent with Ashley Banfield's reporting either.
00:37:06.440Something happened with somebody and it was some type of an altercation.
00:37:11.960Family members can commit burglaries too.
00:37:14.160So I'm not saying that Ashley Banfield is mistaken about any of that.
00:37:26.060And I think that they took her out of there so that they didn't leave her behind because there's lots of evidence on a body, whether it's alive or breathing, that can identify the attacker.
00:37:37.660So there could be – I've seen cases where someone was shot in the head with a small caliber rifle or something and the bullet never leaves and it just makes very small blood droplets, OK?
00:37:50.760And sometimes the body – I've seen one case where the head was taken to – so that the killer could, you know, prevent law enforcement from finding that bullet and matching it back to some gun.
00:38:02.940And so there's all sorts of reasons that come to my mind why a killer or an attacker would remove Nancy from that home.
00:38:14.520This whole thing feels like it's turned into – I don't want to say a stale case.
00:38:21.180And hopefully with this new information this afternoon, maybe we will get some kind of breakthrough.
00:38:25.700But the general feeling around here up until that announcement that you just made about the – maybe a picture of a person of interest or something like that, until that, it's just the feeling here is that this is a stale case and that law enforcement is just at the end of their investigative leads right now.
00:38:45.360I know what you mean, because stale is how it's feeling.
00:38:50.460The FBI got in there, guns blazing, set up the command post.
00:39:36.160I know you're pointing out he didn't bring in – the sheriff didn't bring in the special plane that's supposed to fly overhead so they can potentially see a person being removed.
00:39:45.660He had some sort of a turf war going on with the person flying the plane.
00:39:49.940And the sheriff has seemed pretty disjointed from the beginning.
00:39:54.080You know, yesterday – yeah, the pilot was pulled from the flying duty because of some disagreement with the sheriff, I'm told, and was put on street patrol duty or something along those lines.
00:40:06.720But nevertheless, we know that the pilot was not flying the plane when that very valuable asset needed to be in the air because the moments, the minutes, and certainly the few hours after a disappearance like this,
00:40:19.580those are the most critical times to have all hands on deck.
00:40:22.740And unfortunately, that big piece of it was out of the equation.
00:40:27.320But yesterday, there was some information from the sheriff's office that there was to be expected some additional law enforcement activity at both of the Guthrie homes.
00:40:40.360We're talking about Nancy's and Annie's, which is about four or five miles away.
00:40:44.180And I drove to both of them yesterday.
00:40:47.640But, you know, I was out there until after dark, and I didn't see anything.
00:40:52.860I mean, I saw one sheriff's deputy that was parked in front of Nancy's house, and he was just sitting in the patrol car there sort of as site security because that's where all the media is.
00:41:01.980But that wasn't part of the investigation.
00:41:03.640But we saw no law enforcement activity.
00:41:07.300And then I checked with people, other members of the media who are here on the ground, have been out there overnight working in shifts.
00:41:14.920And I checked with several of them before we go on air with your show here.
00:41:19.920And they all tell me, yeah, nothing happened.
00:41:22.560We staked the place out all night, and we saw nada.
00:41:25.620So I don't know what this messaging problem is with the sheriff's office.
00:41:35.120They need to do some work on that because their messaging has been, well, it's just been very, very frustrating for the public.
00:41:44.200It's got to be frustrating for the family of Nancy Guthrie to see the sheriff's office make some kind of statement like this, and then there be nothing.
00:42:09.080I wish the FBI had been in charge since day one because it's not their first rodeo when it comes to a kidnapping or even a murder with no body, you know, cover up.
00:42:19.020And they weren't brought in, and now there are reports that when they were brought in, they were stiff-armed, that the sheriff wasn't exactly happy to see them.
00:42:27.620I'll say that, but there are reports out of Fox News today that that was the case.
00:42:31.400And at a minimum, what this tells me, Phil, is that – I mean, I don't know this, but I'm going to guess that if it's Fox News reporting, they're probably getting their information from the FBI.
00:42:40.840And my supposition is that that means, at a minimum, the FBI is unhappy with the cooperation it's getting from the sheriff and that maybe they're not hot on this case and about to solve it because they don't start pointing fingers at each other like that when things are going well.
00:42:59.420Well, so some of the folks I've talked to here with the Fox Digital team who have, I think, been the one that broke the news today that the – there was some DNA samples taken for comparison by people who maybe like people who worked on the pool, maybe gardeners, people who were hired to work around the home in some capacity.
00:43:21.880And so that information, I suspect, if I had to guess, is probably coming from the FBI because – or it could be someone very frustrated within the Pima County Sheriff's Office.
00:43:33.580But the thing about the DNA comparisons, it's important to remember, if someone works at that house, depending on what exactly their job is, it may not be unusual or unexpected to find their touch DNA inside the home.
00:43:52.180But now if it's someone like the pool guy –
00:43:54.260Now, if it's a landscaper and the DNA is on the mattress, different story.
00:44:33.800We'll check back in with you tomorrow.
00:44:35.740And good luck in the meantime getting somebody to talk.
00:44:38.520I want to tell the audience that that sheriff did give an interview on camera to – off camera to an Arizona outlet called Green Valley News.
00:44:47.880And it was on Monday and has a message to his detractors in here.
00:44:58.280They haven't a clue what this investigation has entailed.
00:45:00.940They don't know all the efforts we put into it.
00:45:02.820They also don't know that over the last five years, this team has close to a 100% solve rate when it comes to homicides.
00:45:09.720And it is currently going through thousands of pieces of evidence and following up on 3,000 tips and counting.
00:45:16.860Now, you want to get picky that the sheriff speaks funny or talks off the cuff, or you can call him a buffoon or Barney Fife or whatever you want.
00:45:24.240To call him, the haters are going to hate.
00:45:26.560But my local media, you included, know me.
00:45:29.500You know what I'm about, and you know I've always been a pretty much open book.
00:45:33.380You ask me a question, I'm going to answer it.
00:45:36.420Well, we appreciate that the book is open, Sheriff.
00:45:39.120We would really love for it to be correct and reliable and trustworthy.
00:45:44.620That's personally where this show has taken issue with you.
00:45:48.180We continue to hope that it's better than it seems.
00:45:52.900And we really hope that this is more like an Idaho situation when it comes to solving it, where the front burner looks a mess, but the back burners are firing and well on their way to actually doing the job.
00:46:08.460They've got a lot of resources that you don't.
00:46:10.320We certainly do hope you're taking advantage of that.
00:46:13.000And speaking of the FBI, we're back now with a very talented 25-year veteran of the FBI on what she's gleaning from the latest facts,
00:46:24.960including I want to talk to her about, in particular, why they searched the sister's home, Annie Guthrie's home on Saturday night, not just at night.
00:46:38.680We know it happened from 7.30 to 10.30, right?
01:13:53.180What Maureen said here, Jim, if you look at it, I don't know if you can, I'm not sure if we can zoom in on it, but on your phone, you certainly could.
01:13:59.560But it looks, it's right where his crotch is, in front of his crotch.
01:14:22.100Well, Maureen was saying she thinks it's a holster that would normally go on the inside of your pants that kind of sticks to your leg more.
01:14:41.600It definitely has something black coming out the top of it, which looks consistent with a gun, though.
01:14:47.760Yeah, now that's a much clearer picture.
01:14:49.460I think the first time I've seen this picture that you have up there now, that is clearly a weapon that was blown up.
01:14:55.840You can tell make and model most likely.
01:14:58.060And, yeah, that would definitely lean towards right-handed if the holster is above the right leg there, which, again, 90% of the population.
01:15:17.480But he has plenty of stuff in that backpack, which would enable him to carry through with any contingency today or that night when things went wrong.
01:15:27.340Let's get a still shot of that backpack, you guys, so we can take a closer look at it.
01:15:31.340Jim, we do know a couple of, we don't know who this is, but we do know a couple of things here.
01:15:36.140We know for sure Nancy Guthrie did not wander off.
01:18:39.880So that'll, I mean, I don't know exactly how you put that together with a, you know, you can't just figure out who's bought, who's purchased.
01:18:50.140Semi-automatic handguns, even if it's a Glock with an extended magazine.
01:18:53.880I mean, you could go back years, you know, you're not going to be able to get to it from that.
01:18:57.820But maybe from the backpack guys, like the, the brand or the backpack.
01:19:01.840I mean, that's what they did in the pipe bomb case.
01:19:04.860They went, they went to every radio shack.
01:19:07.060They tried to, you know, figure out what are the ingredients that would be in this thing.
01:19:09.960And just by shoe leather police work, you know, step by step, they found themselves what they say is the perpetrator.
01:19:16.240It so often comes down to good police work.
01:19:18.580And this is, this is going to come down to what you said from the very beginning, Megan, which is someone is going to identify this person.
01:19:25.760Someone is looking at this and saying, oh shit, pardon me.
01:19:31.120They know because, because of the compilation of all these different little elements.
01:19:36.100And they're going to realize that whoever that's why they put out the picture, whoever that someone is somehow started acting funky around Saturday.
01:19:42.860And then certainly the whole week after the post-offense behavior we're talking about.
01:19:47.500So we don't know if this guy's a loner, married, kids.
01:19:50.380I would say more on the loner side, but they're going to, boy, that could pass for, you know, my husband, Joe, or my brother, Bill.
01:19:57.900And yeah, he's been really weird the last week and a half.
01:20:00.600And he's been following things on the internet left and right.
01:20:03.400And, you know, sending off these emails.
01:20:05.200I mean, that could be for something else, but he's really looking into this.
01:20:08.520And that could also, so the behavioral aspects of not just the identity of this person based on their description in these videos and these still photos.
01:20:29.460I can tell their footfall as they walk down the hallway, who's coming.
01:20:34.460And this is the break I think we've all been waiting for.
01:20:38.520The other thing I want to say is with that weapon, even though they can't, we can't, you know, definitively tie anything to that, if within this pool of individuals that the FBI and the law enforcement has been honing in on and asking for DNA and looking for everything, if within that pool they have someone that owns that type of weapon, that's just going to narrow that group of individuals down considerably.
01:23:33.620If you're this guy and you are out there right now and this is an oh shit moment because your picture is now going to be plastered all over every newspaper,
01:23:42.640every television station, every podcast, everything in America, what do you do?
01:24:09.500I would say it could go either way, but I would think it might help Nancy.
01:24:16.000The only, you know, it gives me great joy to think of this person squirming, even though his squirm is nowhere as frightening as what Nancy went through.
01:24:26.480However, with that backpack being that packed, I'm wondering, did he bring a tarp or a blanket or something?
01:24:33.420Because, you know, Jim and I know too well how hard it is to move a body, but it's a lot easier if you have a blanket or a tarp.
01:24:48.940You know, I was thinking for a second, maybe if like the remnants of the Nest camera got these shots, the remnants of it got him leaving, but that's not what happened.
01:24:58.480This is, the Nest camera is still in its spot.
01:25:02.200The Nest camera did get pictures of the perpetrator.
01:25:05.920It's just, and he did remove the camera.
01:25:10.860Even though the sheriff told us at a presser, he was told by the company that they hadn't gotten it so far, but he said we're asking them to continue checking.
01:25:24.640Like they, somehow the system did still have this.
01:25:26.800Megan, do you think this is what they were looking for in Nancy's house last night in the dark?
01:25:31.480Was using oblique lighting, like I talked about at the top of this show, to try to identify any of this vegetation that might be on the floor where boots were or where he keeps his shoes or in closets or anything like that?
01:25:58.180I would guess because of the situation and because how big it's gotten.
01:26:01.840No matter what has happened, my guess is he would have gotten rid of a lot of this, but Fitz would know better than I would.
01:26:08.820However, if he's not a really fastidiously clean person, we'd be able to find some of that foliage in that house.
01:26:19.080But the argument against it is if they went into the brother-in-law's house, and if this is him, and there is facial hair, but that's all we know for sure.
01:26:30.840I mean, we made a close-up shot of the one face, and that is definitely a mustache, a dark mustache above his top lip there.
01:26:39.140And in the other picture, it appears that there's facial hair down below the bottom lip, too.
01:26:46.240If that were the case, Maureen, and they found a backpack, certainly if they found the face mask, I think we'd be talking about an arrest right now and not an appeal to the public to help us identify this guy, right?
01:26:57.920And what does it tell us, if anything?
01:27:00.280I'm going to start calling you Fitz, too.
01:27:06.940What does it tell us that they haven't placed him under arrest and that they actually are issuing a general appeal to the public for any information?
01:27:16.960Does that tell us that it's not the brother-in-law?
01:27:38.140What could happen to, of course, Mrs. Guthrie?
01:27:40.800These are all kinds of questions involved in the post-offense behavior of this particular offender.
01:27:45.800And now that the stakes have been raised as of the last hour or so, that he now is aware of this, just like we are on this panel, that that's when he has some decisions to make.
01:27:55.400Let's hopefully he plays it smart here.
01:27:57.080And if he somehow does have Mrs. Guthrie in his custody and she is still alive, nothing bad happens there.
01:28:04.060But yeah, if he had a mustache, and I won't go into whether it's the brother-in-law or not, can't rule anything out or anyone out.
01:28:10.760But if we're seeing a little bit of a mustache, two things.
01:28:13.920Either it was planted there in advance as a decoy, or if it's real, it's come off as of about an hour ago.
01:28:24.100And that is something we should put out there.
01:29:04.240And that's what this all may come together and someone may be.
01:29:08.140That's what's going to go to the top of that triage list that Maureen referenced in terms of who the suspect is, if they get that kind of a call.
01:29:15.220Let me all week we've been having different experts with your kind of background on the show.
01:29:37.360But I find it very interesting how he turned around and went straight to something on the ground as if he knew it was there.
01:29:43.640Which leads me back to the familiarity he has and how he got that familiarity.
01:29:48.920Perhaps it's one of the roofers or some other type of laborer.
01:29:51.660Perhaps this was a robbery and Nancy woke up.
01:29:55.140If that's the case, I would expect her body to be close to home.
01:29:57.940But if it's a relative, then the heat is getting heavy and they will break soon.
01:30:03.280He also sees gun on the waistband, mustache for sure.
01:30:06.720However, he says, you know what else this tells me?
01:30:09.480The Nest cameras are actually recording what you're doing even when you don't have a subscription.
01:30:15.560There's a fair amount of Americans who are kind of freaked out about their Nest camera and their Ring camera after that Super Bowl commercial that tried to get us to get one so that we could find lost dogs.
01:30:26.760Then we all realize that we're all on camera all the time and somebody at Ring is watching it, which is creepy.
01:30:32.640But I think this point about he's right, Maureen, how he turned around and went straight to something on the ground as if he knew it was there, that plant, the vegetation he picked up.
01:33:53.680And with an older woman like this, why does he need a gun?
01:33:56.840Did he really think he'd have to shoot her or someone else?
01:33:59.560I would also say that if you're going to leave, if you're a stranger, you'd be more inclined to leave the body behind because no one's going to connect you to it.
01:34:09.960If you're someone, and I'm not going to say family, but if you're somehow connected to that house, you may then have more of a reason for taking the body.
01:34:18.220So there'd be no other indices of death or indications of death in that regard.
01:36:58.800They're going to be looking for touch DNA everywhere on those plants.
01:37:03.280Because even though he's wearing gloves, he's wearing leather gloves, not sterile, you know, latex gloves.
01:37:09.900He's wearing probably his own leather gloves, which will have his DNA on them.
01:37:13.520They're going to be able to go to the housing of where that camera was, where he wrestled it from the housing.
01:37:20.660And this is the break we've been waiting for.
01:37:26.360Do you think, Maureen, that they have other images that they're not releasing?
01:37:32.920Because what we don't see in here is him successfully get the nest cam down.
01:37:36.740Yes, I would think they may have more.
01:37:41.060Well, especially since we've gotten three iterations in the last three minutes, I wouldn't be surprised if they had more.
01:37:48.080I remember, if you recall, the camera that the ERT members got off the roof of the house apparently had some sort of solar panel attached to it.
01:37:59.620So that might be something they're trying to retrieve information from as well.
01:38:04.420That one, too, could have recovered images.
01:38:14.400No, Maureen more or less covered it there.
01:38:17.140But the flashlight part, yeah, free up his hands.
01:38:20.320They obviously sell them like a miner's type of hat or certainly a band you can put around your head, which is very effective for freeing up your hands and having lights.
01:38:44.160A lot of people are, especially post-COVID.
01:38:47.440This is a guy who may walk around and do little chores around the house when it's even semi-dark with a flashlight in his mouth.
01:38:54.340So, again, there's another clue, folks, out there, if you're listening, besides the looks on the video, the backpack, all that stuff, what he's been missing the last week, are very preoccupied.
01:39:04.260Who do you know that carries a flashlight in their mouth?
01:43:21.860To me, he looks younger than the brother-in-law.
01:43:24.740His mustache looks black, and the brother-in-law's is gray.
01:43:29.320And the brother-in-law's eyes are more hooded than appear in this guy.
01:43:34.440Okay, so I don't mean to beat up on the brother-in-law, but since he's been out there, I will say, to me, this doesn't look like it's a match, but we'll find out.
01:43:44.640The FBI is going to know this very, very soon.
01:43:47.640But if this is the guy—all right, let me start with this.
01:43:51.260Does this look like a professional hitman to you, like, based on what you guys saw in that video?
01:43:55.860If I can start with this, Megan, there are very, very few actual, legit, real, quote-unquote, professional hitmen out there.
01:44:07.880They'll take out mostly their own kind.
01:44:09.760But for professional—this alleged professional hitmen that Hollywood likes to talk about, there are very, very few in that regard.
01:44:18.360Now, it doesn't mean there's some freelancer out there talking to some guys, sees something on the dark web, and says, hey, I could do something like this.
01:44:29.700But these cases of, again, hitmen, unless there's some lover triangle involved, and somehow that's where the other party gets taken out, they're relatively, I would say, very rare, quite frankly.
01:44:42.640And Maureen, maybe you have more experience with that than my career, but they're just not seen very often.
01:44:51.360Like, that's where I left us before we left.
01:44:53.220Does this look to you like somebody who could possibly be affiliated with a cartel?
01:44:58.180Here's the deal with the cartel, because I worked narcotics all those years.
01:45:01.420The cartel's job, if they're kidnapping someone, it's a hit-and-run operation, meaning you get in there, you get the hell out, you do whatever you can.
01:45:09.440You have it already set up for the ransom.
01:45:11.680You get that money, and you drop that victim off someplace, and let her figure out how to reach out to her family so that you don't have to.
01:45:19.220I mean, it's a situation that's rapid, fluid, and the whole goal is to get money.
01:45:26.040That isn't at all what we've seen here.
01:45:28.500It's just been this crazy rigmarole, and with so many data points, they don't even seem to coincide with one another.
01:45:38.400It's like if you had her, prove that she's alive.
01:45:42.500As I watch this, you guys, and I mean, we're all subject to our own priors and biases, right?
01:45:47.540But I'm thinking about the actress Rebecca Schaefer, and she was on My Sister Sam.
01:46:00.380And she was the younger sister, and she had just gotten to Hollywood, and her star was rising, and there was a man who became obsessed with her who was watching her show, and she had not yet protected herself by figuring out how to layer, how to put layers between you and the public.
01:46:29.840I mean, because he was crazy, but he was functioning.
01:46:33.220He wasn't, you know, fire-breathing, walking down the sidewalk.
01:46:37.280People did not know he was crazy, but he was crazy, and he killed her.
01:46:40.900And I can't help but think whether this is a possibility with this guy who just, I mean, you can't rule it out that there was some obsession, obviously, with Savannah.
01:46:51.220I don't think many people would develop some weird obsession with an 84-year-old senior citizen, but it's possible that somebody was obsessed with Savannah, and she's, I believe, impossible to get to, but her mom's not.
01:47:19.160I'm just saying this is an angle that deserves some discussion.
01:47:22.740I agree, but I think we're forgetting something, or, you know, we may not have gotten to the point where we noticed something really important right now, and that is he's at the front door.
01:47:32.100The front door is not what they were talking about in those pressers.
01:47:35.180They were talking about the back door was left open, like he entered through the back door, and, you know, was there—we still don't know from the sheriff if, in fact, there was forced entry.
01:47:46.880But if there wasn't forced entry, this person's at the front door.
01:48:07.400And, I mean, it is—maybe that's what the video shows next, because I don't think we've seen all the video, because we do not see the moment where he gets the Nest camera down.
01:48:16.440Ashley's reporting that these are Nest cams, not Ring cams.
01:48:18.640But we don't see the moment where it disconnects and, like, goes dark.
01:48:22.660So, clearly, they didn't show that for some reason.
01:48:40.600But we believe he exited through the front door, because that's where Nancy's blood was.
01:48:47.440So, clearly, he at least attempted to leave with Nancy through the front door.
01:48:50.840Okay, but from a cartel standpoint, I can tell you right now, a cartel member is not going to hit that front door because it had a burglar gate on it.
01:49:30.220So, if that next video shows him trying to breach that door and he's good at it, that's going to be a person from a different—at a different level.
01:49:41.180So, maybe what happened next is he went around—yeah, maybe he went around to the back door and got in that way.
01:49:49.700And, I mean, if that happened, like, if there's video showing him struggling and he can't get the door open, and then he gives up and goes around to the back, then I think we can safely say it's somebody familiar with the property.
01:50:12.480Or someone who's just spent a fair amount of time on the property and knew immediately there's a back door that they should get to.
01:50:18.720And, frankly, that would be the—that would make some sense because who that's breaking into a home like this and gets in through the front door after all this stuff we're watching on camera then says,
01:50:29.080gee, maybe I should go disarm the Nest camera in the back door.
01:50:32.180No one's even thinking about the back door.
01:50:35.080Unless there's something we don't know.
01:50:36.680So, again, we don't—we think it's one person now, and we—you know, I surmised earlier there could have been someone in a car.
01:50:43.920Obviously, we don't see the car out front, and we don't know if anyone would be in there or not.
01:50:47.960There has to be a car, I would think, for this person to make his egress, not just, of course, from the house, but from the street and from the whole neighborhood.
01:50:55.840So, why the back door would be involved here?
01:50:58.820Was there some sort of a tentative walk around there to check it out at some point?
01:51:03.500And he decided out of the two doors, which one is the one easier to break into, to break down?
01:51:11.260That's unknown and will have to be determined, of course, later.
01:51:14.060Is it determination which way the person came in as opposed to which way the person left?
01:53:19.980A pizza delivery man just showed up to Nancy Guthrie's house and was able to walk up to the front door without the deputies out front noticing.
01:53:33.960He—the fact that there's no car right behind him, you guys, is freaking me out.
01:53:39.360Because if you are showing up at this home to abduct a lady, an 84-year-old, aren't you going to put your car right there?
01:53:47.520Like, right there so you can get her in?
01:53:50.700No, if you're afraid of—if you're afraid of a camera being there, you'd at least—you know you have to show yourself at some point the mask and the jacket and all that stuff, you know, hidden hair, gloves.
01:54:00.180But you don't want to have your car obvious to the camera.
01:54:04.220So that was somehow parked on an angle.
01:54:06.500Yes, it would make his job more difficult to carry, however he did it, Mrs. Guthrie, out the door to the car itself.
01:54:13.460But he looks like he's big enough, hefty enough, not lanky as we were saying earlier, that he could probably carry the 150-pound woman to the car.
01:54:22.060And he would ideally like to have it closer, but from a tactical perspective or a counter-forensic perspective, he wanted out of the sight of that camera.
01:54:45.600There could be touched—when you put the gloves on, leather gloves, there could be touched DNA on top of that, which then could be left in some other part of the house, too.
01:54:54.440And that could be the break they're looking for.
01:54:56.160And a bunch of people are getting their mouths swabbed, I understand, cool people in the last 24 hours or so.
01:55:01.140And that could be a result of, again, this video that's come out now.
01:55:05.700And they may have something off the house.
01:55:06.780Well, a whole bunch of people are going to get ruled out quickly.
01:55:08.300You know, if you've got more Asian eyes—this is not an Asian man.
01:56:16.260This is actually a thoughtful analysis because he's looking at the bricks that are there and coming up with an estimate based on the bricks and how they typically—how big they typically are, how many inches they typically are, to put him at about 5'10 and 5'11.
01:56:28.120I mean, my own armchair analysis suggested he was about 6'2.
01:56:54.020Sometimes you just grab the whole—like this whole part and pull.
01:56:58.500Other times you grab off finger to finger.
01:57:01.180Those—if there are fingerprints on the tips of those gloves and he touched things within the house, he could have transferred a fingerprint onto a hard surface.
01:57:19.180It's his DNA that is linked to the touch DNA found in the house.
01:57:23.220So the clothing material becomes irrelevant then.
01:57:26.920And when you said, why would you lose—
01:57:28.540The parts of him having touched nothing are slim.
01:57:31.720Megan, when you said earlier, why would he take the body or whatever, I think, obviously, money was the motive.
01:57:37.220This is not an instance where, you know, we were speculating earlier on in this extravaganza we've been involved in that maybe something went horribly wrong when there was an argument or something along those lines.
01:57:50.540That doesn't appear to be what happened now.
01:57:52.620It seems now this was a kidnapping or just a straight-up murder where they removed the body.
01:57:59.400But remember you talked earlier at the top of the hour where you were saying that, you know, if a gardener's fingerprints or DNA are in the house, that's one thing if he's in the kitchen or the restroom or something like that.
01:58:10.520But if it's on her bedding or on her nightstand, you know, that's a totally different deal.
01:58:17.380That may be why the body was removed if they went there just to kill her.
01:58:23.140But it's still looking more and more like a kidnapping at this point.
01:58:27.420And somehow, but that somehow took over by, taken over by someone, you know, starting with these emails and this Bitcoin thing down the line.
01:59:10.120Megan, I would argue if they were real and connected to this abductor or, quite frankly, connect, not connected to this abductor that we're seeing the video images of.
01:59:41.780But we don't think so, because TMZ has the Bitcoin account numbers and it's reporting today that there's no money in there, that no one has made a deposit in there.
01:59:51.700But, Megan, what if you listen to the FBI's statement that they put out, they said we know of no other communication between the kidnapper and the Guthrie family.
02:00:16.000I mean, in these types of deals, not for profit kidnappings, as we're seeing here, but where there's other hidden accounts that people no one else allegedly knows about and money could be deposited there.
02:00:26.700But, yeah, there's just so many that this does change somewhat.
02:00:31.920We knew she was abducted and I always was skeptical whether it was for that it was for profit.
02:00:37.460Again, revenge or or or something else.
02:00:41.040If it's for revenge, something against the family.
02:00:44.400Maybe they just didn't want the family seeing the body in the house and they wanted, you know, to save the family from that.
02:00:52.140It almost sounds like that, you know, there'd be some other set of rules put in there for them.
02:00:57.120This is so unusual on so many different levels and unprecedented that we're all learning here along the way, quite frankly.
02:01:04.980And the investigators know more than we do.
02:01:07.220And these videos add a lot to what we did to have.
02:01:09.980But I think, Maureen, and you and I talked about this and Megan, we talked on the air.
02:01:14.880It doesn't surprise me that this is the kind of person that came to the door.
02:01:19.000We didn't rule out someone knows a young girl, hey, my car broke down.
02:02:08.860He's coming in from the side of the property right there.
02:02:11.300You can't quite see it in the video we're showing, but he's coming in from the left, around the bend of the left there, which would be consistent with maybe he does have a car.
02:03:03.800But imagine the mindset of breaking into a house, destroying cameras.
02:03:09.580I mean, when you're prepping yourself for this act and you're walking up to the door, you've got your gun right there.
02:03:17.340For an 84-year-old woman, why do you even need a gun?
02:03:20.360Unless you're just trying to scare her into opening some safe, open some documents, something along that line, but nothing was missing.
02:03:27.500And then you're trying to prepare yourself for harming her, which it shows this offender, whoever he was, had a proclivity and a predisposition toward hurting people because she was bleeding on her way out.
02:03:48.020Well, I would argue a psychopath and on the scale of psychopathy somewhere and, you know, narcissistic, has no feelings of empathy, doesn't care about other people.
02:03:59.000And he just said, you know, this is a mission I'm on.
02:04:01.980We don't know the purpose of the mission yet, the motivation that is.
02:04:05.000But perhaps, you know, profit-oriented to some degree.
02:04:45.900So I can't imagine this guy being a next-door neighbor or even around the block from around the block.
02:04:52.560But they're going to keep all angles open and all avenues open to find out who this person is and not roll out geography as being a factor.
02:05:00.240But the more you're traveling, I'll just leave it with this part.
02:05:03.460The more you're traveling with a – Mrs. Guthrie had to be disabled to some degree.
02:05:10.540Did he wrap her in duct tape to keep her quiet?
02:05:12.760The farther you're driving with someone in your car, in the trunk, in a bag, whatever it is, the more you are opening yourself for risk, for arrest.
02:05:39.620And so this guy couldn't have gone too far.
02:05:42.460And I've said from day one, Megan, you know, the immediate property or properties around there, that may have been the ultimate goal of this person, just dispose of Mrs. Guthrie there.
02:05:53.480And I won't get any more graphic than that.
02:06:35.540Well, the backpack, the only reason you see the backpack when we get closer is the reflection or the refraction of the light onto those illuminating strips that we talked about earlier.
02:07:00.500Because the picture I just showed you from Chilanoi, the gal who slowed down the entry, and I said he was coming from the back, like, left, around the left bend.
02:07:10.280And there you can see the backpack has such reflective tape on it, the straps, horizontal, reflective tape, that they look like lights.
02:07:21.180I mean, I'm not totally convinced they're not lights, to be honest with you.
02:07:23.700But they're extremely reflective, or they're lights, on the front of the backpack.
02:07:28.580And you can see on Chilanoi's little freeze frame of the video, the black stripe down the middle and the double white stripe on either side of it.
02:07:36.180And you can see the weapon wagging from his belt.
02:07:38.760And you can see the eye holes in the mask.
02:07:48.020I don't even know what this picture is from Kash Patel.
02:07:50.360But is it possible he's releasing, and maybe we will get a press conference at some point.
02:07:54.900Is it possible he's releasing casing photos, right?
02:07:59.840Like, it is possible this guy did show up with maybe the mask turned around, so you could not see his face at all, and he didn't yet have his gun, and he wasn't wearing his backpack to get a look at what he was about to walk into, to get a look at the Nest Cam.
02:08:18.980I mean, this is possibly him doing a little recon work.
02:08:49.720So I would want to see that, of course, blown up.
02:08:52.100It doesn't mean that car is involved in anything, just a very coincidental car having to go by.
02:08:56.880But this also could have been, as you just said, Megan, some kind of a casing.
02:09:00.260If these aren't timestamped, these particular pictures of some other time that this person came to the house, a dry run, so to speak, how close he could get.
02:09:10.760But I just can't tell if the backpack's on or not and different configuration of the mask, whatever.
02:09:16.060But to come in that time of night, come twice, would really increase your risk level.
02:09:21.640And especially if they think they're captured on this video.
02:09:25.280But then you come back a whole other night.
02:09:26.820Of course, it could have just been an hour before.
02:09:28.820And then that's what the guy then geared up afterwards back to the car, put all the gear on the gun, then came to the house and said, all right, it's go time.
02:10:09.220Or do I don't know, like, I don't know whether it was him or somebody else possibly getting on here because that picture doesn't have flashlight in the mouth.
02:10:17.460It doesn't have flashlights or reflective tags up here on the top backpack.
02:10:38.660Because I have to say, it is pretty darn distinctive.
02:10:41.020It's not your run-of-the-mill backpack.
02:10:44.060So back to the whole purpose of releasing this stuff.
02:10:47.220I mean, there is—it's possible that somebody's sitting there with a husband or a brother or a cousin or, you know, whatever, who's got this backpack in the corner.
02:11:12.560If they're cheapskates, trust me, people getting popped because they're cheapskates is a real thing.
02:11:17.780And that—you're right, that backpack is distinctive because the straps are a contrasting color, it appears, to the actual backpack, which isn't—you know, unless the straps—they seem very thin at the bottom and a contrasting color.
02:11:36.220But it's hard to tell color in a black-and-white photo in the middle of the night, you know?
02:12:11.780Just real quick, our discussion of yesterday of when President Trump was on Air Force One making an announcement that there may be a solution.
02:12:18.880I believe we determined that was Friday.
02:12:23.800That's when he was told we have video of this guy.
02:12:26.960And the FBI has worked with this this whole time, which is fine.
02:12:30.260No obligation, you know, on Friday to release it to the public.
02:12:33.800But I think that's probably what he was talking about.
02:12:37.280And he was careful not to stop sex, but he said solution.
02:12:40.020So just it's important for this discussion that to know that the FBI, we can say Thursday night, Friday, that's when they got these videos out of this camera.
02:14:08.600However, you usually have a tripod so that you can make sure that it's perfectly still because you need to see what the blood pattern look like, directionality of the blood stains, et cetera.
02:14:20.080So I didn't see anyone go in with the tripod, but I guess somebody may have, I, I secreted it.
02:14:41.360It didn't really look like a CSI team to me at all.
02:14:44.720And carrying in such a small amount of gear made me question that.
02:14:48.760But something you could easily do without much gear at all would be oblique lighting if you're looking for just that vegetation or something that they, something else that we know nothing about that they have information on.
02:15:00.780But as far as looking for blood pattern, blood, blood, you'd think they'd have more gear, but I could, I guess I could be wrong.
02:15:10.560I mean, just the fact that they didn't turn on the lights is just so, so interesting.
02:15:14.660If you put the blood like that with the luminescent, you're going to, it's going to be in the dark.
02:15:19.480I'm going to go to you in one second, Jim, but this is just in from NBC.
02:15:22.340The Guthrie family was notified about the images shared by the FBI, but there is nothing the family or law enforcement or so far anyone recognizes in terms of who this person might be.
02:15:33.780Because there was no recognition, the FBI chose to post the images and videos publicly in the hopes that someone may recognize this individual or the clothing or the items that are seen, which could lead to a break in the case.
02:15:46.660So they had already shown it to the family and they did not recognize anything about them.
02:15:53.520I mean, which is just so, that's even more eerie.
02:15:55.600I just can't get over the fact of like, I mean, it's truly, I don't know what every guy's worst nightmare is, but it's every woman's worst nightmare to have that guy at the foot of her bed with a weapon.
02:16:06.220Like, I think we've all had that fear as we've gone to sleep, especially if the husband's away or, you know, your parents are away when you're a young, you know, co-ed in college and you're home for a visit.
02:16:16.200It's just, that's what the nightmare is.
02:16:19.180And the nightmare showed up to Nancy Guthrie's home, this vulnerable 84-year-old woman who's, you know, her husband wasn't there to protect her.
02:18:14.880And I won't say you have to include the Guthrie family in on this, but just say, hey, for our purposes, we want to come here one more time.
02:18:22.860They may have already showed them the photographs at this point in time.
02:18:28.900But I'll tell you, if I was a profiler working this case with them and I said there's someone out there that may be destroying evidence, let's show him we're still looking in some other directions.
02:18:37.320Let's show them that we're still considering this, you know, this extortion amount from wherever it's coming from and make him a little bit more relaxed.
02:18:45.600And hopefully it helps Mrs. Guthrie if she's still alive, too.
02:18:48.320So just just throwing that out there as a possibility.
02:18:52.600What about the possibility of murder for hire?
02:18:58.780Like this guy, casual, doesn't seem particularly worked up, but the fact that he's about to, at a minimum, scare the hell out of a nice old lady.
02:59:08.380Life insurance, will, financial burden, all that stuff.
02:59:12.660I can't imagine a gardener she shorted on a tip is going through all this.
02:59:16.180So it's either some sort of a hatred for Savannah or that one of the other kids or a hatred for Nancy or an obsession with, with Savannah potentially, or it's, they still want, they want ransom.
02:59:31.160And like somehow the original plan to get it got foiled by crypto currency man last week.
02:59:38.720Like you still got to have a big set of nuts on you to be able to take a woman and put her in the car when in the middle of the night at two o'clock in the morning, any proactive law enforcement officer that's out on the streets, you know, that's when I made big cases, you know, two o'clock in the morning when nothing's going on.
02:59:54.580And all of a sudden you see car, a car, you know, it may pique my interest.
02:59:58.040You're like, you're really risking a lot to put a body in a car and, and to drive off.
03:00:04.360Um, and again, I know that there's been, Megan, we talked yesterday about grid searches and looking in the area about maybe did they dispose of her somewhere, but like, you've got to have a big set on you to put a woman in your car and to take off driving.
03:00:19.040Don't know how far, whether it was two miles down the road or multiple miles, like every, every mile you go further, you're increasing your chance of getting caught.
03:01:30.000Just, I mean, it's just, you're just picking something up and then you realize it's a sharp part of a cactus.
03:01:35.400And it's, it's just terrible and frightening.
03:01:37.660The, the, all the statistics show that if, if there was a body involved, so let's not talk about Nancy per se, but in other instances where bodies are being disposed of, they're oftentimes, most often disposed right near the road.
03:01:53.020Like within 10 to 30 feet from the road, because as Chad was saying earlier, because it's so difficult to move a dead body, unless you put them in a blanket or a tarp and drag them.
03:02:08.080But even then you get tired very quickly, right, Chad?
03:02:11.240I mean, 150 pound person dragging them, even dragging, I mean, think about that desert terrain and cactus and rocks and all this stuff.
03:02:23.520Also think about, and again, I've spent minimal time.
03:02:27.080I did a lot of training at a location out in New Mexico for explosives, but think about trying to dig a hole on desert soil.
03:02:39.680You're not taking your grandpa's shovel and digging a deep enough grave.
03:02:44.640And if they're doing grid searches and they've had aerial footage up there and, and, and they're searching, you know, that immediate vicinity around that area, you know, I don't know what you're going to see, but it would be, it would take hours and hours to dig a deep grave on hard desert soil.
03:03:04.580The smarter thing to do would be to put foliage on top of the body, make sure whatever clothing she has isn't brightly colored, et cetera, put the dry foliage on top and let the animals do what they do.
03:03:16.000That being said, that this offender will have cuts on their hands, even if they have had those gloves on.
03:03:24.980So they had leather gloves on, but trust me, I've done, I've done this work with gloves and leather gloves, tactical gloves, latex gloves.
03:03:34.700Every time I cut my hands, the only way you don't is if you have those hardcore heavy duty gloves designed not to get cuts while dealing with sharp stuff.
03:03:47.820And I'm, and I think of it the more, and this is a local, there's like, if we're presuming this is a local, you know, with, with local knowledge of the roads and so on, what a hassle.
03:03:56.380You know, it is easier just if you're going to commit a murder, just to leave the body in the spot, like in the house.
03:04:19.640I mean, I'm looking here, it looks like there's several Walmarts, but, you know, the gloves, that backpack, I'm going to start going to every Dick's Sporting Goods, Sports Academy, Walmart.
03:04:30.980I'm going around with my team right now and walking through there.
03:04:34.460Do y'all sell, you know, this color backpack?
03:04:44.880Maybe they're dumb enough to, either way, whether you went online or, or somewhere else, still, you could probably, once they, I figure out the brand of this backpack, that's going to help.
03:04:54.760Because I'm sure Amazon has ways that they can say, hey, we've sold X amount of these backpacks and this is where they were shipped to or whatever.
03:05:02.720There's a lot, you know, in this, there's a lot in these images that gives law enforcement direction to start the next stage of this investigation.
03:06:08.860I think it's a walkway, like a breezeway to get it into the house from what I.
03:06:15.500Just basing, you know, could you, you know, I'm just trying to see how much coverage that camera, I'm just, I guess if we had backed, you know, it'd be better to see if it was backed down a lot further.
03:06:37.720If, in fact, he did go around to the back.
03:06:39.400I mean, like, if Ashley's right and he dismantled both cameras and there was one in the front and one in the back, and we believe he probably couldn't have gotten through that storm door, um, and she's reporting there was forced entry, then there should be more video of this guy from the back Nest cam.
03:06:53.920I mean, hopefully the, the company's working to retrieve that, too.
03:06:58.120You know, maybe, maybe that's still under development.
03:08:12.680I realize in the, in the desert, overnight it gets cold, but he's got what appear to be thick gloves and a fleece jacket on.
03:08:21.240Um, in the long pants, like somebody is going to know this look and they're, they may even have seen a face mask, which is a very unusual thing in Tucson, Arizona, um, sitting around their roommate's room or in the Amazon cart.
03:08:41.680Um, that's probably a recent purchase that, that face mask is probably a recent purchase from a store or an Amazon, all these things.
03:08:49.220Someone's going to know, or the FBI is going to find, I do feel hopeful that it's just a matter of time.
03:08:54.200And, and then we'll cuts on his hands.
03:08:58.120Does he have cuts on his hands from being in the brush?
03:09:00.820I mean, that's one thing, everybody who goes into the backyard of Nancy Guthrie, not like her immediate backyard, but her, the wild right behind her house, how many pricker bushes there are, how it's like treacherous back there.
03:09:12.720And the Customs and Border Patrol has been walking back there with Brian saying, this is like dangerous.
03:09:19.380Like if, if you don't know which plants to avoid, you know, you get all caught up back here.
03:09:24.740That that's one of their skills is like finding people because they're experts on knowing what to stay away from and finding people caught right in the midst of these, you know, night, nightmare vegetation situations.
03:09:34.720Um, and our hope would be, let's just say that the worst case scenario, unfortunately that Nancy's no longer with us and they discover her body.
03:09:43.140Obviously, hopefully, um, if she put up some type of fight that they're able to pull, you know, DNA from under her fingernails or something like that.
03:09:52.140Either way, like you said, Megan, um, that time's not on this guy's hands.
03:10:42.300It's, it's up to them to decide what's relevant and what's not call because there are experts like you two sitting at the other end of the line eventually to whom,
03:10:50.580what seems like a nothing could actually mean something.
03:10:53.740Well, it's called the bystander effect.
03:10:57.140Maureen, we really put you to work on your first day here on the Megan Kelly show.