The Megyn Kelly Show - DNA, “Targeted,” Autopsies： Idaho College Murders and Bryan Kohberger, Megyn Kelly Show Special - Part Six ｜ Ep. 725

00:00:00.460 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:12.480 Hey everyone, welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:16.320 In December, we brought you five episodes of a special series devoted to the quadruple murders in Idaho and the arrest of suspect Brian Koberger.

00:00:24.960 The response we received was overwhelming in emails sent to me at megan, M-E-G-Y-N, at megankelly.com, in comments on YouTube and our other social platforms and the Apple reviews.

00:00:38.720 We were very grateful to hear from all of you and we're very glad that you enjoyed it so much.

00:00:44.000 Many of the comments we received were requests for more coverage, a little further digging into outstanding issues around this case.

00:00:51.800 These questions are what inspired this sixth episode in our series.

00:00:57.440 First, as a refresher, on November 13th, 2022, four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death shortly after 4 a.m. in their three-story home.

00:01:08.880 Those students were Ethan Chapin, Kaylee Gonsalves, Zanna Kornodal, and Maddie Mogan.

00:01:14.340 These were horrific, brutal murders, up-close, personal, and completed in the span of less than 20 minutes.

00:01:24.700 Two other surviving roommates, Bethany Funk and Dylan Mortensen, were home at the time.

00:01:30.340 We would later learn that Dylan Mortensen told police she saw an intruder in the home that night,

00:01:36.300 a man who was wearing a COVID-style face mask and who she described as having bushy eyebrows.

00:01:42.340 Approximately six weeks after the murders and arrest, the suspect, 28-year-old Brian Koberger,

00:01:50.940 a graduate student at nearby Washington State University, getting his Ph.D. in criminology.

00:01:58.220 He was taken into custody back at his family home in Pennsylvania in the Poconos and charged with all four murders.

00:02:05.940 In our earlier episodes, we went through the arrest, Koberger's past, his disturbing online writings,

00:02:13.660 the prosecution and defense cases, and much more.

00:02:18.740 Before we get to your questions, we begin with where the trial stands as of now, in February 2024.

00:02:25.380 We do not expect this trial to happen anytime soon, and it might not even happen in Idaho, where the crimes took place.

00:02:32.400 On January 31st, Koberger's lawyers filed a change-of-venue request, arguing the, quote,

00:02:39.940 extensive inflammatory pretrial publicity, end quote, could damage their clients' chances of a fair trial.

00:02:47.720 The request says that a, quote, fair and impartial jury cannot be found in Lataw County,

00:02:53.980 due to the area not having a large enough population center to avoid bias in the community.

00:02:59.340 At a motions hearing the week before, Lataw County Prosecutor Bill Thompson pushed back

00:03:04.580 on the notion that the venue must be changed.

00:03:07.420 He said the case was everywhere, meaning a change of venue wouldn't have any effect.

00:03:12.680 He argued that they owed it to the people in that county to at least attempt to seat a jury here first, as he put it.

00:03:21.040 At that hearing, we got a clue about when the trial might take place.

00:03:24.680 The prosecutors would like it to begin this summer, summer of 2024, so sometime around June,

00:03:31.580 when the university students are mostly no longer in town.

00:03:35.760 Koberger's public defender, Ann Taylor, however, said that timeline was not realistic in any way.

00:03:41.980 She said if the venue does not change, she will be pushing for a start date of summer 2025.

00:03:46.920 So for now, we wait, although we do have one noteworthy date.

00:03:53.380 On June 25th, 2024, famed journalist and author Howard Bloom's new book on Koberger and this quadruple murder

00:04:01.080 will be released by HarperCollins.

00:04:03.720 It's called When the Night Comes Falling, A Requiem for the Idaho Student Murders.

00:04:09.540 Bloom's reporting on this story for Air Mail News has been fantastic.

00:04:13.260 His writing, captivating.

00:04:15.060 We used it as part of our five-part series back in December.

00:04:18.960 And from what I know about the book, he has much more new reporting coming out.

00:04:23.020 And when the book hits, we will have Bloom on to talk about it all.

00:04:27.060 But now we want to get to your questions.

00:04:29.220 One of the most asked questions that we received was about the biggest development in the case,

00:04:33.660 which happened after we aired the series.

00:04:35.980 On December 28th, almost exactly one year to the day that police arrested Koberger,

00:04:41.380 University of Idaho officials demolished the house at 1122 King Road, where the murders took place.

00:04:49.900 The demolition began early in the morning and was completed within two hours.

00:04:54.160 Police were on hand to monitor the process.

00:04:57.020 University president Scott Green said, quote,

00:05:01.120 It's time for the house's removal and to allow the collective healing of our community to continue.

00:05:07.300 But before the trial, what if the jury wants to see the house themselves?

00:05:12.800 He also noted that both the prosecution and the defense were given access to the house,

00:05:19.440 which they did take the university up on, and that neither side requested that the home be retained.

00:05:25.880 Last month in episode 695 on The Megyn Kelly Show, I talked to Nancy Grace about this decision.

00:05:32.920 I can't believe they did this.

00:05:36.320 I can't believe that the interest of the beautification of the campus outweighed the interest of justice.

00:05:43.540 Now, I think that's a major mistake because very often it's alleged police wrongdoing,

00:05:51.920 whether it's some sort of misconduct or the gathering of evidence.

00:05:57.100 I think it's really important that the jury be able to see what happened

00:06:01.960 and then combine it as an overlay with whatever was on the body cams

00:06:08.040 so they know that there was no police wrongdoing, no planting of evidence, so to speak.

00:06:14.240 I would like them to see the room where that knife sheath was found

00:06:20.960 bearing Brian Koberger's DNA in the snap.

00:06:28.000 Two of the victims' families were vehemently opposed to the demolition

00:06:32.340 and did object the loved ones of Kaylee Gonsalves and Zana Kurnodal

00:06:36.760 speaking out before the house was torn down.

00:06:39.500 Quote,

00:06:40.240 There may be additional discovery by either party

00:06:43.100 that prompts one side or the other to go back to the scene of the crime.

00:06:47.000 That was from the Gonsalves family in a statement.

00:06:49.540 Quote,

00:06:49.820 Jurors are notoriously unpredictable,

00:06:52.480 and they tend to make decisions on a variety of facts and circumstances.

00:06:55.900 It would be foolish of us to try and foresee what they will want or need

00:07:00.240 to make a just verdict in this case.

00:07:02.740 End quote.

00:07:04.360 One family was supportive of the demolition, Ethan Chapins.

00:07:09.040 He was a triplet, and both of his siblings still attend the University of Idaho.

00:07:14.300 Can you imagine them having to go buy the house?

00:07:17.040 His parents said getting rid of this house was for the good of the university

00:07:20.740 and for the community of Moscow.

00:07:24.420 Many of you wrote in to ask also about the DNA evidence.

00:07:28.520 Remember, as far as we know, the police found just a single tiny sample of touch DNA,

00:07:35.880 which is not the best form of DNA.

00:07:37.540 They found it on the knife sheath found next to one of the victims

00:07:41.900 and were able to match that touch DNA to Kohlberger

00:07:46.940 using something called investigative genetic genealogy, or IgG.

00:07:52.280 They traced the DNA by matching it to someone in the Kohlberger family,

00:07:58.200 then zeroed in on Brian Kohlberger after realizing that it likely came from a relative

00:08:06.740 of a man named Michael Kohlberger, Brian's dad, who cops then obtained DNA from.

00:08:14.240 Actually, they went through his garbage, which is legal,

00:08:16.620 and figured out that there was some sort of a match.

00:08:19.820 They actually, at that point, could tell that Michael's son was a match to the touch DNA.

00:08:24.940 One viewer, Bill, asked us over email,

00:08:29.620 how did Brian leave no DNA at the crime scene?

00:08:33.180 Not one of his hairs, not any of his saliva or blood?

00:08:36.980 It's a good question.

00:08:37.680 It was just one dot of touch DNA on the knife sheath snap, that's it?

00:08:42.880 In a crime this gruesome and bloody?

00:08:46.180 We're wondering the same thing.

00:08:48.540 Scott, another viewer, added,

00:08:50.560 given the reports that Kayla Gonsalves appeared to have fought back

00:08:53.980 during the attack, he writes, quote,

00:08:56.660 there must be some DNA under fingernails. 0.91

00:08:59.960 Where is it?

00:09:00.600 If she didn't scratch him, did she pull his hair?

00:09:03.040 There should be hair strands. 0.65

00:09:04.120 If she didn't pull his hair, did she punch him?

00:09:06.560 There should be a DNA transfer onto the knuckles of her hand. 1.00

00:09:09.980 I just don't see any way, he says,

00:09:12.100 that someone could actively resist in such a way

00:09:14.580 that there would not be any DNA of the perpetrator.

00:09:19.140 Others asked about the apparent lack of DNA in Kohlberger's car,

00:09:22.440 Brian Kohlberger's car, while some emailed wondering about reports

00:09:26.380 that DNA from other males had been found at or around the scene of the crime.

00:09:31.640 We're going to take these questions one by one.

00:09:33.720 First, we should clarify that the police at this point

00:09:37.320 are no longer relying on just the genetic genealogy match

00:09:42.600 from Kohlberger's father.

00:09:44.540 As soon as Brian Kohlberger was arrested, his cheek was swabbed,

00:09:49.160 and that DNA sample was tested against the touch DNA on the knife sheath,

00:09:54.520 according to the police affidavit.

00:09:56.500 The police adding, it is no longer a question

00:09:58.200 that it was Brian Kohlberger's touch DNA on that knife sheath.

00:10:03.360 As for Bill's questions about the DNA at the crime scene,

00:10:07.560 that is a mystery.

00:10:09.000 As far as what's been reported,

00:10:11.820 there was no other DNA of Brian Kohlberger's found at the scene

00:10:15.680 or on any of the bodies.

00:10:17.460 I know, it's hard to believe.

00:10:19.240 Maybe there is, and they just haven't told us.

00:10:22.040 The prosecutors might have more,

00:10:24.000 but so far, neither the prosecution nor the defense

00:10:26.740 is saying there's anything more than this touch DNA.

00:10:30.480 This is going to be a big question at trial,

00:10:32.820 but all reports we have seen so far point to

00:10:35.180 the DNA on the knife sheath as being the prime,

00:10:39.100 and it appears for now the only evidence

00:10:41.920 that will be presented to the jury when it comes to DNA.

00:10:46.400 Remember, it's believed that the killer,

00:10:49.300 Kohlberger, allegedly, wore protective clothing,

00:10:52.440 a mask, and probably, almost certainly, gloves.

00:10:56.320 Then there's the question about the lack of DNA in Kohlberger's car.

00:10:59.980 That one has a bit more of an explanation.

00:11:02.620 Kohlberger was arrested more than six weeks

00:11:05.540 after the murders took place.

00:11:07.920 He drove that car across the country

00:11:09.680 with his father, Michael, going home

00:11:11.200 for Christmas break one month after the murders.

00:11:14.680 While in Pennsylvania, reports are he was seen

00:11:17.480 getting the car cleaned,

00:11:19.620 including one report saying he had used bleach.

00:11:23.100 All of this is believed to have happened

00:11:25.200 while cops had their eye on Kohlberger,

00:11:27.560 but before they could get their hands on the car itself.

00:11:33.280 It's possible that the cops went and retrieved some clues

00:11:36.260 or discovered some evidence from the facility

00:11:38.540 where Kohlberger cleaned the car, like, after he left.

00:11:42.480 But if they did that, it hasn't been made public.

00:11:46.040 If they did not do that,

00:11:48.120 then it appears to be the case

00:11:49.420 that they watched him clean the car,

00:11:51.100 potentially destroying evidence,

00:11:52.680 and did zero about it.

00:11:55.100 The car is in police custody now,

00:11:58.480 and they may have found DNA evidence

00:12:00.880 that has not been publicly disclosed.

00:12:03.980 They're definitely ripping that car apart.

00:12:06.260 We doubt it, however,

00:12:07.560 because the defense is saying publicly

00:12:09.620 that the police found no DNA in the car.

00:12:14.040 The question about the other male DNA

00:12:18.020 found at and around the house

00:12:20.280 is an intriguing one.

00:12:22.640 All right, this is one of the other questions,

00:12:23.940 as I mentioned.

00:12:25.000 In a June 23 filing,

00:12:27.700 one of Kohlberger's defense attorneys,

00:12:29.980 Jay Weston Logsdon,

00:12:32.360 wrote about the existence of other male DNA

00:12:35.180 found at the scene.

00:12:36.480 Now, keep in mind, this is a defense lawyer.

00:12:38.580 Here is how he described things.

00:12:40.020 By December 17th, 2022,

00:12:44.620 lab analysts were aware

00:12:46.380 of two additional males' DNA

00:12:48.280 within the house

00:12:49.040 where the deceased were located,

00:12:50.800 and another unknown male DNA

00:12:52.660 on a glove found outside the residence

00:12:54.900 on November 20th, 2022.

00:12:58.100 To this date,

00:12:59.320 the defense is unaware

00:13:00.120 of what sort of testing, if any,

00:13:01.560 was conducted on these samples,

00:13:03.120 other than the STR DNA profiles.

00:13:07.160 Further, these three separate

00:13:08.660 and distinct male DNA profiles

00:13:10.620 were not identified through CODIS,

00:13:13.580 leading to the conclusion

00:13:14.500 that the profiles do not belong

00:13:15.880 to Mr. Kohlberger, end quote.

00:13:18.200 CODIS is the Combined DNA Index System,

00:13:22.360 which is a national DNA database

00:13:23.960 maintained by the FBI.

00:13:25.560 If you're a criminal

00:13:26.160 and they've tested you,

00:13:27.420 you're probably in there.

00:13:28.700 The defense is claiming

00:13:29.800 the other male DNA samples

00:13:31.960 were not ever identified

00:13:34.080 and therefore do not belong

00:13:36.080 to their clients,

00:13:36.760 so who are these other males?

00:13:38.360 So you can bet the defense

00:13:39.160 is going to make something

00:13:39.860 of this at trial.

00:13:40.960 Why didn't you investigate?

00:13:42.100 Could that have been a suspect?

00:13:43.740 We don't know

00:13:44.420 who these other males are.

00:13:45.780 Other than to say the police,

00:13:47.280 the FBI, the prosecutors,

00:13:48.260 they obviously believe

00:13:49.700 they're not related

00:13:51.080 and that they have the right man

00:13:53.120 under arrest,

00:13:54.120 the sole killer

00:13:54.940 in this gruesome crime.

00:13:56.600 Okay, back to that same filing

00:13:59.160 and defense attorney Logsdon.

00:14:01.340 Quote,

00:14:01.560 There is no connection

00:14:03.180 between Mr. Kohlberger

00:14:04.180 and the victims.

00:14:05.560 There is no explanation

00:14:06.540 for the total lack

00:14:07.880 of DNA evidence

00:14:09.220 from the victims

00:14:10.460 in Mr. Kohlberger's apartment,

00:14:12.880 office, home, or vehicle.

00:14:16.120 In essence,

00:14:17.380 through the lack of disclosure

00:14:18.560 and their motion

00:14:19.380 to protect

00:14:20.080 the genetic genealogy investigation,

00:14:22.860 the state,

00:14:23.980 this is again

00:14:24.500 the defense lawyer claiming this,

00:14:26.180 is hiding its entire case.

00:14:28.480 End quote.

00:14:29.320 He goes on from there.

00:14:30.320 The state apparently thinks

00:14:31.800 that they need not explain

00:14:33.340 how they came to think

00:14:34.300 that it was Mr. Kohlberger's

00:14:35.420 DNA on the sheath.

00:14:37.040 Presumably,

00:14:37.720 the defense is expected

00:14:38.600 to accept at face value

00:14:40.280 that the sheath

00:14:41.320 had touched DNA

00:14:42.640 just waiting for testing

00:14:43.740 by all the FBI's

00:14:45.080 myriad resources.

00:14:47.140 Additionally,

00:14:47.800 the defense is to guess

00:14:48.820 whether the state

00:14:49.980 focused its investigation

00:14:51.480 on Mr. Kohlberger

00:14:52.400 via a bizarrely complex

00:14:55.120 DNA tree experiment.

00:14:58.000 End quote.

00:14:58.540 You can see what

00:14:59.000 they're doing here, right?

00:15:00.080 Planning doubts.

00:15:01.200 What's genetic genealogy?

00:15:02.620 Is it reliable?

00:15:03.620 Why can't we get more info?

00:15:05.360 We need to know more.

00:15:06.400 This whole thing stinks.

00:15:08.120 The defense continues.

00:15:09.240 The state appears

00:15:10.340 to be trying to hide

00:15:11.700 its original domino

00:15:13.220 such that Kohlberger

00:15:14.800 cannot discover

00:15:15.780 why he was targeted.

00:15:18.640 Mr. Kohlberger

00:15:19.220 has the right to discover

00:15:20.240 and question

00:15:20.840 the investigation

00:15:21.660 that led to him.

00:15:23.640 End quote.

00:15:24.800 Okay, so you can now see

00:15:26.100 the defense

00:15:26.700 is opening a very

00:15:28.200 interesting line of attack.

00:15:29.900 They are implying

00:15:30.840 the police

00:15:31.600 may have planted

00:15:33.260 the DNA

00:15:34.320 on the knife sheath,

00:15:35.940 put thereby,

00:15:36.700 as they write,

00:15:37.360 quote,

00:15:37.580 someone else

00:15:38.480 during the investigation.

00:15:40.240 We also get an indication

00:15:41.640 about the way

00:15:42.140 they plan to knock down

00:15:43.180 the entire concept

00:15:44.440 of investigative

00:15:45.960 genetic genealogy,

00:15:47.940 describing it as a,

00:15:48.980 quote,

00:15:49.040 bizarrely complex

00:15:50.720 DNA tree experiment.

00:15:53.260 They seem to want

00:15:54.320 to argue that

00:15:54.960 if that first domino

00:15:56.220 in the trail

00:15:57.180 to Kohlberger

00:15:57.840 was not reliable

00:15:59.360 or was the product

00:16:00.740 of junk science,

00:16:02.840 all evidence

00:16:03.640 resulting

00:16:04.360 from that domino

00:16:05.780 would be rendered

00:16:06.820 inadmissible.

00:16:07.720 Quote,

00:16:08.120 fruit of the poisonous tree.

00:16:09.260 That's what we used to call it

00:16:10.140 in criminal procedure.

00:16:12.040 And if,

00:16:12.920 if the tree is poisonous

00:16:14.060 and can't be allowed

00:16:14.900 in evidence,

00:16:16.120 neither can its fruit.

00:16:17.080 That's how they'll try

00:16:18.120 to get out

00:16:18.600 the DNA swab

00:16:19.580 of Kohlberger's cheek,

00:16:21.520 fruit of the poisonous tree.

00:16:23.140 For context,

00:16:23.980 here's a bit

00:16:24.420 from my interview

00:16:25.140 with Cece Moore.

00:16:26.840 She is the expert

00:16:28.340 on the practice

00:16:29.460 of IgG,

00:16:30.620 and she was on the show

00:16:31.420 in January of last year

00:16:32.640 in episode 470.

00:16:35.140 Watch how she breaks down

00:16:36.320 the way this works.

00:16:37.480 It's used all the time

00:16:38.940 these days.

00:16:39.880 The way she and her team

00:16:41.440 have been able

00:16:42.180 to make hundreds

00:16:43.100 of successful IDs

00:16:44.960 of violent criminals.

00:16:47.140 So we get the

00:16:48.280 unknown individual's

00:16:50.500 DNA from the crime scene.

00:16:51.740 It might be semen,

00:16:52.920 blood,

00:16:53.580 saliva,

00:16:54.520 even touch DNA.

00:16:55.900 So it goes to a private lab

00:16:57.580 where it is analyzed,

00:16:59.800 and just like they would

00:17:00.900 analyze it at,

00:17:01.920 say,

00:17:02.020 Ancestry DNA

00:17:02.860 or 23andMe.

00:17:04.260 We need it to be compatible

00:17:05.680 with those profiles

00:17:06.800 because that's

00:17:07.580 the type of profiles

00:17:08.880 we're going to compare against.

00:17:10.160 And then it goes

00:17:10.720 to our bioinformaticists,

00:17:12.240 our scientists.

00:17:12.880 Now, because these are degraded,

00:17:15.600 mixed,

00:17:16.720 contaminated samples,

00:17:18.020 these are not like

00:17:19.140 if you spit in a tube

00:17:19.980 and you have this

00:17:20.640 perfect DNA sample.

00:17:22.080 These are non-optimal samples.

00:17:24.840 And so we need something

00:17:25.760 called bioinformatics

00:17:27.340 that work with that

00:17:28.740 degraded DNA

00:17:29.620 to try to repair it,

00:17:30.920 upload it to GEDmatch

00:17:32.240 and or family tree DNA.

00:17:34.140 It's compared against

00:17:35.340 all the people there

00:17:36.320 that are opted

00:17:37.260 into law enforcement matching.

00:17:39.180 And we get a list of matches.

00:17:40.480 And we can predict

00:17:42.000 what the likely relationships

00:17:43.360 are based on

00:17:44.420 how much DNA

00:17:45.260 someone is sharing

00:17:46.760 with that unknown person.

00:17:48.820 You see,

00:17:49.640 so they get a match

00:17:50.600 maybe to somebody

00:17:51.620 in the Kohlberger family.

00:17:53.080 We can tell you

00:17:53.700 this touch DNA

00:17:54.560 relates to somebody

00:17:56.760 in the Kohlberger family

00:17:59.020 who gave their DNA

00:18:00.320 to one of these services.

00:18:02.020 But, you know,

00:18:02.580 Brian Kohlberger's

00:18:03.460 not in there.

00:18:04.520 Maybe not even

00:18:05.540 Michael Kohlberger.

00:18:06.160 We don't know who it is.

00:18:07.200 And then somebody

00:18:07.760 like Cece Moore

00:18:08.500 starts pulling

00:18:09.620 wedding announcements

00:18:10.720 and funeral announcements

00:18:11.960 and family histories

00:18:13.360 and anything

00:18:14.020 she can get her hands on 1.00

00:18:15.260 to try to zero in

00:18:16.820 on which Kohlberger.

00:18:17.980 What does that,

00:18:18.780 what does the family tree

00:18:19.760 look like?

00:18:21.480 And how can I

00:18:22.600 follow the tree down

00:18:23.860 to the most likely person

00:18:26.000 who's got a connection

00:18:27.300 to Idaho,

00:18:28.220 who it's a very complex

00:18:29.680 and fascinating

00:18:30.860 means of crime detection.

00:18:33.400 She's been doing it

00:18:34.420 for some time now

00:18:35.500 and she's been solving

00:18:36.720 tons of cases.

00:18:37.880 Um, so they got

00:18:40.240 close enough

00:18:40.960 to realize we should

00:18:42.000 check out the DNA

00:18:42.820 of Michael Kohlberger,

00:18:43.940 the dad.

00:18:44.560 They legally

00:18:45.520 got his garbage

00:18:46.600 and figured out

00:18:47.320 from that

00:18:47.940 this guy,

00:18:49.260 Michael Kohlberger,

00:18:49.900 is the father

00:18:50.960 of our suspect.

00:18:52.140 He's only got one son,

00:18:53.880 hence Brian.

00:18:54.860 Now they had other evidence

00:18:55.820 that led to Brian.

00:18:56.940 It's not all based

00:18:57.820 on this touch DNA,

00:18:58.880 but it would be

00:18:59.500 a huge win

00:19:00.260 if the defense

00:19:00.880 can get the touch DNA

00:19:02.380 thrown out.

00:19:03.760 Huge.

00:19:04.120 So we will see

00:19:05.440 eventually

00:19:05.760 what the prosecution

00:19:06.420 has exactly

00:19:07.580 when it comes to DNA.

00:19:08.560 Is it just the touch?

00:19:09.600 Is it more?

00:19:10.780 And ultimately,

00:19:11.840 whether it is admissible

00:19:13.260 for whatever it's worth.

00:19:14.840 Our lawyers,

00:19:16.060 our legal experts

00:19:16.860 we've talked to

00:19:17.320 on the show,

00:19:18.180 believe it will be admitted

00:19:20.120 notwithstanding

00:19:21.100 these objections

00:19:21.840 to IgG,

00:19:23.420 but one of the many things

00:19:24.640 we just don't know yet.

00:19:26.060 When we come back,

00:19:27.500 a look at some

00:19:28.340 of your questions

00:19:28.940 related to the six students

00:19:30.380 at the center of the case

00:19:31.500 and how some early language

00:19:33.640 by the cops

00:19:34.480 may have opened up

00:19:35.940 a rabbit hole

00:19:36.980 for the internet

00:19:37.860 that made the speculation

00:19:39.520 about this case

00:19:40.420 run wild.

00:19:41.980 We'll be right back.

00:19:46.960 One of the commentators

00:19:48.360 on our YouTube channel

00:19:50.300 wanted to know more

00:19:51.860 about the roommates

00:19:52.640 who survived.

00:19:54.140 I am with you.

00:19:55.140 Me too.

00:19:56.500 Bethany Funk

00:19:57.180 and Dylan Mortensen.

00:19:58.860 These are the two women 0.98

00:19:59.700 who were not attacked

00:20:01.260 and survived the evening.

00:20:03.400 Then he writes,

00:20:03.980 quote,

00:20:04.220 there is something not right

00:20:05.340 with the roommates

00:20:06.000 calling friends

00:20:07.080 before 911

00:20:08.260 when they discovered

00:20:09.840 the scene.

00:20:11.300 Yeah, I agree.

00:20:12.540 Something strange about that.

00:20:14.560 Others asked about

00:20:15.280 the possibility of texts

00:20:16.680 between the two

00:20:17.740 surviving roommates

00:20:18.660 during the murders

00:20:20.160 or at least before

00:20:21.540 the 911 call

00:20:22.560 that was placed

00:20:23.760 at noon the next day.

00:20:25.500 I mean that day,

00:20:26.260 but later,

00:20:27.220 you know,

00:20:27.360 several hours after

00:20:28.240 the 4 a.m. murders.

00:20:29.900 Here's what we know.

00:20:31.560 The affidavit

00:20:32.280 makes very clear

00:20:33.440 that Dylan Mortensen

00:20:34.740 encountered someone

00:20:36.340 during,

00:20:37.880 we believe,

00:20:38.220 right after the murders.

00:20:40.000 As a reminder,

00:20:41.260 here's what we learned

00:20:42.500 and the initials

00:20:43.900 DM refer to Dylan.

00:20:45.640 Quote,

00:20:46.180 this is from the affidavit.

00:20:47.740 DM stated,

00:20:48.980 she originally went

00:20:49.800 to sleep in her bedroom

00:20:50.700 on the southeast side

00:20:51.940 of the second floor.

00:20:53.480 DM stated she was awoken

00:20:54.700 at approximately 4 a.m.

00:20:56.800 by what she stated

00:20:58.100 sounded like Gonsalves

00:20:59.300 playing with her dog

00:21:00.520 in one of the upstairs bedrooms,

00:21:02.100 which were located

00:21:03.060 on the third floor.

00:21:04.300 A short time later,

00:21:05.580 DM said she heard

00:21:06.680 who she thought

00:21:07.260 was Gonsalves

00:21:08.140 saying something

00:21:09.380 to the effect of,

00:21:10.400 there's someone here.

00:21:13.040 DM stated she looked

00:21:14.600 out of her bedroom

00:21:15.400 but did not see anything

00:21:16.720 when she heard the comment

00:21:18.320 about someone

00:21:18.960 being in the house.

00:21:20.660 DM stated she opened

00:21:21.800 her door a second time

00:21:23.340 when she heard

00:21:24.020 what she thought

00:21:24.880 was crying coming

00:21:26.460 from Zana Kurnodal's room.

00:21:29.320 DM then said

00:21:30.240 she heard a male voice

00:21:31.360 say something

00:21:31.860 to the effect of,

00:21:33.220 it's okay,

00:21:33.940 I'm going to help you.

00:21:36.200 DM stated she opened

00:21:37.560 her door for the third time

00:21:39.300 after she heard the crying

00:21:41.240 and saw a figure

00:21:42.220 clad in black clothing

00:21:43.540 and a mask

00:21:44.740 that covered the person's

00:21:45.900 mouth and nose

00:21:46.500 walking towards her.

00:21:48.320 DM described the figure

00:21:49.300 as 5 foot 10 inches

00:21:50.820 or taller,

00:21:51.700 male,

00:21:52.400 not very muscular

00:21:53.180 but athletically built

00:21:54.420 with bushy eyebrows.

00:21:56.540 The male walked 0.58

00:21:57.120 past DM

00:21:58.280 as she stood

00:21:59.620 in a quote

00:22:00.280 frozen shock phase.

00:22:02.940 The male walked 0.58

00:22:03.900 toward the back

00:22:04.680 sliding glass door.

00:22:06.220 DM locked herself

00:22:07.020 in her room

00:22:07.620 after seeing

00:22:08.920 the male,

00:22:09.920 end quote.

00:22:11.420 There's more of course

00:22:12.380 in the affidavit

00:22:13.000 but why the roommates

00:22:14.500 waited

00:22:15.000 until nearly noon

00:22:17.000 to call the police

00:22:18.400 remains a complete

00:22:19.560 mystery.

00:22:20.920 And it's also true 0.97

00:22:22.080 as has been reported

00:22:23.300 that it was a friend

00:22:24.140 who called the cops.

00:22:25.380 A friend who was

00:22:26.040 at the house

00:22:26.580 because they had

00:22:27.640 been called

00:22:28.320 by the surviving

00:22:29.560 roommates

00:22:30.120 before the roommates

00:22:31.660 called the police

00:22:32.700 themselves.

00:22:33.580 All right,

00:22:33.740 so DM,

00:22:34.400 Dylan,

00:22:34.700 was allegedly

00:22:35.080 in a frozen

00:22:35.780 shock phase

00:22:37.160 until the next day

00:22:38.480 and then

00:22:39.440 what happened?

00:22:40.400 Did she come out

00:22:40.980 and see the bodies?

00:22:42.540 Did she just call

00:22:43.840 a friend immediately

00:22:44.600 and then the friend

00:22:45.240 came over

00:22:45.700 and saw the bodies

00:22:46.360 and called 911?

00:22:47.080 Why don't we know

00:22:47.880 this chronology?

00:22:48.560 Why wouldn't the police

00:22:49.480 make this clear?

00:22:50.440 There's something strange

00:22:51.720 about the whole story

00:22:53.860 and what's been disclosed.

00:22:56.180 We don't know

00:22:57.400 what the truth is

00:22:58.860 behind all of this

00:22:59.560 but we do expect

00:23:00.480 both of those roommates

00:23:01.880 to be called

00:23:02.500 to the stand

00:23:03.200 at trial.

00:23:04.520 That will be

00:23:05.380 absolutely critical

00:23:06.980 and probably

00:23:07.700 one of the most

00:23:08.180 watched moments

00:23:08.840 of this entire thing.

00:23:11.040 The question of

00:23:12.160 whether the surviving

00:23:13.020 roommates were texting

00:23:14.260 one another

00:23:14.760 during the murders,

00:23:15.640 that's actually

00:23:16.380 very interesting

00:23:17.420 or maybe

00:23:19.000 the next morning

00:23:19.700 before or while

00:23:20.960 they were discovering

00:23:21.840 the crime scene.

00:23:23.320 Howard Bloom reported

00:23:24.560 that Kaylee Gonsalves' 1.00

00:23:26.440 father, Steve,

00:23:28.680 heard through a source

00:23:30.380 that this question

00:23:31.860 about possible texts

00:23:32.820 between these two

00:23:33.520 came up

00:23:34.180 in the grand jury

00:23:35.600 proceedings

00:23:36.260 but we don't know

00:23:37.740 whether that's true.

00:23:38.880 We don't know

00:23:39.220 whether it did in fact

00:23:40.040 come up at the grand jury

00:23:40.860 and we don't know

00:23:41.500 whether in fact

00:23:42.280 there was texting.

00:23:43.720 The police certainly

00:23:44.640 do have their

00:23:45.340 cell phone records

00:23:46.120 and if there were texts

00:23:47.400 we're going to know

00:23:48.400 but we have to wait

00:23:49.100 until the trial.

00:23:50.660 Then there are

00:23:51.160 some questions

00:23:51.700 from YouTube commenters

00:23:53.360 that we can put

00:23:55.160 into a category of

00:23:56.320 well we'll call it

00:23:57.960 extreme skepticism.

00:24:00.100 One person asked

00:24:01.080 about reports

00:24:01.680 that the quote

00:24:02.320 house was regarded

00:24:03.580 as a drug house

00:24:04.940 throughout the campus

00:24:06.320 or the fact

00:24:07.360 that there were

00:24:07.900 group chats

00:24:08.640 that knew something

00:24:09.420 happened there

00:24:10.580 well before

00:24:11.680 they even called it in

00:24:13.760 end quote.

00:24:14.500 others asked

00:24:16.060 about Chapin's

00:24:16.900 fraternity

00:24:17.660 and the rumors

00:24:18.320 that there was

00:24:19.060 a potential fight

00:24:19.780 there that night

00:24:20.560 that may have

00:24:21.220 been connected

00:24:21.680 to the murder

00:24:22.160 somehow.

00:24:23.200 There's no evidence

00:24:23.800 of that.

00:24:24.320 No evidence

00:24:24.740 of a fight

00:24:25.480 at the fraternity

00:24:26.400 at least not right now.

00:24:28.040 It appears

00:24:28.560 that those are

00:24:29.060 just unsubstantiated

00:24:30.180 rumors.

00:24:31.460 Ethan's former

00:24:32.260 fraternity brothers

00:24:33.140 spoke out in November

00:24:34.580 about him

00:24:35.420 to KTVB

00:24:37.380 in Idaho.

00:24:38.240 Watch here.

00:24:39.460 It's the coolest

00:24:39.880 guy you'll ever meet.

00:24:41.080 That's about it

00:24:42.220 right there.

00:24:42.680 He was a really big

00:24:43.680 funny happy guy.

00:24:45.240 When someone

00:24:45.600 wanted to walk

00:24:46.100 in the room

00:24:46.500 like not just

00:24:47.260 me anybody

00:24:47.800 he would welcome

00:24:49.320 you into the room.

00:24:50.160 He was always

00:24:50.560 very kind

00:24:51.160 in everything

00:24:51.540 that he did.

00:24:52.460 He always

00:24:52.800 would call me

00:24:53.380 Gussie Gus

00:24:53.980 in his little

00:24:54.580 raspy voice.

00:24:56.160 Emotionally

00:24:56.600 always there

00:24:57.520 for people.

00:24:59.740 These guys

00:25:00.440 at Sigma Chi

00:25:01.100 dealing with

00:25:02.620 a tragedy

00:25:03.380 they never

00:25:03.920 foresaw

00:25:04.380 I'm sure

00:25:05.080 when they

00:25:05.480 entered

00:25:06.460 the fraternity

00:25:07.040 in campus.

00:25:08.640 The questions

00:25:09.460 about the

00:25:09.940 shadiness

00:25:10.340 of this house

00:25:11.440 on King Road

00:25:12.120 where the murders

00:25:12.620 took place

00:25:13.220 as some

00:25:14.200 described it

00:25:14.700 or even

00:25:15.060 questions

00:25:15.440 that we

00:25:15.740 received

00:25:16.060 about whether

00:25:16.480 a specific

00:25:17.020 roommate

00:25:17.420 may have

00:25:17.800 been the

00:25:18.060 intended

00:25:18.400 victim.

00:25:19.720 All of

00:25:20.200 that we

00:25:20.900 believe

00:25:21.240 can be

00:25:21.540 traced back

00:25:22.000 to the

00:25:22.240 way the

00:25:22.540 cops

00:25:22.840 originally

00:25:23.280 talked

00:25:23.700 about

00:25:23.900 this

00:25:24.100 crime.

00:25:25.120 From the

00:25:25.620 very start

00:25:26.100 the police

00:25:26.560 described

00:25:27.020 the killings

00:25:27.760 as quote

00:25:28.800 targeted.

00:25:31.120 Based on

00:25:31.860 details of

00:25:32.460 the scene

00:25:32.920 we believe

00:25:33.540 this was

00:25:34.000 an isolated

00:25:34.680 targeted

00:25:35.440 attack

00:25:36.060 on our

00:25:36.640 victims.

00:25:37.620 Even the

00:25:38.020 mayor

00:25:38.260 described it

00:25:38.900 that way

00:25:39.320 in this

00:25:39.720 interview

00:25:40.100 just days

00:25:40.640 after the

00:25:41.020 murders

00:25:41.300 with Good

00:25:42.060 Morning

00:25:42.280 America.

00:25:42.680 I think

00:25:43.320 from the

00:25:43.760 evidence

00:25:44.300 that exists

00:25:45.260 on site

00:25:45.980 the conclusion

00:25:47.480 was fairly

00:25:48.260 straightforward

00:25:49.260 that this

00:25:49.940 was targeted

00:25:50.640 isolated

00:25:51.660 doesn't pertain

00:25:53.140 to any other

00:25:53.800 location or any

00:25:54.940 other individuals

00:25:55.740 in the city.

00:25:57.080 Very strange.

00:25:58.360 How did they

00:25:58.740 know that?

00:25:59.260 And what were

00:25:59.640 they basing

00:26:00.200 that?

00:26:00.540 They said

00:26:00.960 nothing more.

00:26:02.900 This targeted

00:26:03.740 language continued

00:26:04.560 for weeks.

00:26:05.940 One state

00:26:06.380 police spokesperson

00:26:07.360 told the

00:26:07.920 Daily Mail

00:26:08.420 it's possible

00:26:09.560 all four

00:26:10.460 victims

00:26:11.020 could have

00:26:11.900 been targeted

00:26:12.420 by the

00:26:13.000 killer.

00:26:14.360 Prosecutor

00:26:15.000 Bill Thompson

00:26:15.520 told a local

00:26:16.180 news outlet

00:26:16.760 quote

00:26:17.100 investigators

00:26:17.660 believe that

00:26:18.800 this attack

00:26:19.380 was intended

00:26:20.140 for a

00:26:21.000 specific person

00:26:22.140 end quote.

00:26:23.420 Why did

00:26:23.820 they keep

00:26:24.280 saying that

00:26:25.000 over and

00:26:25.840 over and

00:26:26.520 over?

00:26:28.020 Moscow

00:26:28.340 police

00:26:28.780 captain

00:26:29.160 Roger

00:26:29.520 Lanier

00:26:29.880 said quote

00:26:30.480 we've told

00:26:31.260 the public

00:26:31.680 very clearly

00:26:32.280 from the

00:26:32.660 beginning

00:26:32.920 that we

00:26:33.320 believe

00:26:33.760 it was a

00:26:34.760 targeted

00:26:35.200 attack.

00:26:35.660 To be

00:26:36.000 honest

00:26:36.320 you're

00:26:36.940 going to

00:26:37.220 have to

00:26:37.480 trust us

00:26:38.120 on that

00:26:38.580 at this

00:26:38.960 point

00:26:39.200 because

00:26:39.500 we're

00:26:40.060 not

00:26:40.320 going

00:26:40.500 to

00:26:40.640 release

00:26:40.960 why

00:26:41.700 we

00:26:41.920 think

00:26:42.180 that

00:26:42.500 end quote

00:26:43.020 and

00:26:43.500 indeed

00:26:43.800 they

00:26:44.020 didn't

00:26:44.440 but by

00:26:45.740 early

00:26:46.020 December

00:26:46.540 the tune

00:26:47.660 changed.

00:26:49.200 Moscow

00:26:49.440 police put

00:26:49.960 out a

00:26:50.220 statement

00:26:50.520 attempting

00:26:51.020 to

00:26:51.440 clarify

00:26:52.640 a

00:26:53.320 miscommunication

00:26:55.060 saying

00:26:55.760 quote

00:26:56.060 detectives

00:26:56.680 do not

00:26:57.520 currently

00:26:57.860 know

00:26:58.280 if the

00:26:58.860 residents

00:26:59.200 or any

00:26:59.640 occupants

00:27:00.180 were

00:27:00.460 specifically

00:27:00.960 targeted

00:27:01.480 but continue

00:27:02.420 to

00:27:02.940 investigate.

00:27:03.780 Come

00:27:03.980 on

00:27:04.440 with no

00:27:06.900 acknowledgement

00:27:07.420 of the

00:27:07.900 number

00:27:08.080 of

00:27:08.220 times

00:27:08.560 you've

00:27:08.800 said

00:27:08.980 that

00:27:09.300 and

00:27:09.800 why

00:27:10.200 no

00:27:10.400 explanation

00:27:10.800 of

00:27:11.080 why

00:27:11.440 I get

00:27:12.320 that they

00:27:12.560 don't want

00:27:12.820 to undermine

00:27:13.320 the case

00:27:13.840 at trial

00:27:14.240 but this

00:27:15.120 is just

00:27:15.400 too glaring.

00:27:16.980 I mean

00:27:17.120 what does

00:27:17.380 this language

00:27:17.840 even mean

00:27:18.440 targeted

00:27:18.920 or specifically

00:27:20.080 targeted?

00:27:21.400 The confusing

00:27:21.960 mixed messages

00:27:22.820 in the early

00:27:23.420 weeks of the

00:27:23.840 case led

00:27:24.240 to intrigue

00:27:25.360 among many

00:27:26.160 including

00:27:26.520 true crime

00:27:27.320 watchers

00:27:27.760 and undoubtedly

00:27:28.920 many of the

00:27:29.560 theories that

00:27:30.080 have emerged

00:27:30.600 and continue

00:27:31.100 to percolate

00:27:31.660 online

00:27:32.080 are due to

00:27:33.060 this very

00:27:33.440 unclear

00:27:33.820 framing

00:27:34.300 by the

00:27:35.240 cops

00:27:35.680 from

00:27:36.380 the

00:27:36.900 outset.

00:27:37.680 Did he

00:27:37.920 know

00:27:38.260 them?

00:27:39.160 Did he

00:27:39.640 want to

00:27:40.640 be with

00:27:41.020 them?

00:27:41.400 Did he

00:27:41.760 post on

00:27:42.960 their social

00:27:43.380 media?

00:27:43.760 All of

00:27:44.080 these

00:27:44.200 questions

00:27:44.520 some of

00:27:44.880 which

00:27:45.040 we've

00:27:45.320 addressed

00:27:45.640 in the

00:27:46.100 earlier

00:27:46.360 episodes.

00:27:48.040 Meantime

00:27:48.600 we know

00:27:49.460 the house

00:27:49.820 on King

00:27:50.180 Road

00:27:50.480 was a

00:27:51.500 known

00:27:51.740 party

00:27:52.120 spot

00:27:52.540 and

00:27:53.560 according

00:27:53.820 to

00:27:54.100 Howard

00:27:54.380 Bloom's

00:27:54.720 reporting

00:27:55.120 the

00:27:55.760 neighborhood

00:27:56.280 where the

00:27:56.920 house was

00:27:57.240 located

00:27:57.640 was known

00:27:58.540 to be

00:27:58.820 an area

00:27:59.240 where drug

00:27:59.920 dealing

00:28:00.320 did take

00:28:01.180 place.

00:28:01.540 Okay,

00:28:03.140 what about

00:28:03.700 Kohlberger's

00:28:04.640 family and

00:28:06.260 the mystery

00:28:06.960 around the

00:28:08.000 autopsies?

00:28:08.880 That's next.

00:28:11.120 I'm Megan

00:28:11.780 Kelly, host of

00:28:12.460 The Megan

00:28:13.000 Kelly Show on

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00:29:04.080 slash MK

00:29:04.900 show and

00:29:06.140 get three months

00:29:06.960 free.

00:29:08.020 Offer details

00:29:08.720 apply.

00:29:14.500 One of our

00:29:15.420 listeners wanted

00:29:15.960 to know why we

00:29:16.900 did not mention

00:29:17.700 that one of

00:29:18.340 Kohlberger's

00:29:18.880 sisters, upon

00:29:20.060 hearing about

00:29:21.000 the murders in

00:29:22.140 the town adjacent

00:29:22.840 to where her

00:29:23.300 brother was

00:29:23.640 getting a

00:29:24.000 graduate degree,

00:29:25.340 immediately wondered

00:29:26.240 if he was the

00:29:27.680 guy.

00:29:28.540 What caused his

00:29:29.340 sister to think

00:29:30.540 that, wrote in

00:29:31.560 our listener.

00:29:32.940 Another wrote in,

00:29:33.780 if Kohlberger's

00:29:34.620 sisters were fired 0.86

00:29:35.400 simply by

00:29:35.940 association, that's

00:29:37.320 terrible.

00:29:38.220 I'd like to think

00:29:39.000 they'd be that much

00:29:40.200 more of a counselor

00:29:40.920 because they had

00:29:41.980 had to see or deal

00:29:43.020 with Kohlberger and

00:29:44.380 his struggles and

00:29:45.480 demons.

00:29:46.760 Look, to that

00:29:47.300 latter point, it

00:29:48.440 does feel like guilt

00:29:49.380 by association, but

00:29:51.260 I don't know.

00:29:53.480 The one sister's a 0.79

00:29:54.300 therapist, and I

00:29:56.640 can see how it

00:29:57.480 might be tough for

00:29:59.040 someone, let's say,

00:29:59.980 the victim of

00:30:01.200 domestic violence,

00:30:02.160 to keep going for

00:30:04.320 therapy from a

00:30:05.840 woman whose face

00:30:07.080 and name just

00:30:08.000 reminds you of

00:30:09.860 one of the most

00:30:10.400 violent, gruesome

00:30:11.420 crimes in recent

00:30:12.380 memory.

00:30:12.920 The whole thing is

00:30:13.620 fraught.

00:30:14.180 It's not fair, but

00:30:15.220 it's fraught.

00:30:17.060 News Nation did

00:30:18.080 report that both

00:30:19.780 sisters were fired 0.86

00:30:21.140 from their jobs

00:30:21.860 shortly after

00:30:22.900 Kohlberger's arrest.

00:30:24.000 Watch.

00:30:25.080 I have now learned

00:30:26.160 that Kohlberger's

00:30:27.400 two sisters have

00:30:28.860 both lost their

00:30:29.940 jobs since the

00:30:31.440 murders and were

00:30:32.180 let go because of

00:30:33.400 their relationship

00:30:34.120 with their brother,

00:30:35.300 Brian Kohlberger.

00:30:36.580 Kohlberger's older

00:30:37.300 sister was a school

00:30:38.320 counselor, and we

00:30:39.820 know his younger

00:30:40.480 sister at one point

00:30:41.580 at least was working

00:30:42.420 as an actress.

00:30:44.000 Both of Kohlberger's

00:30:45.100 parents are retired,

00:30:46.640 and I'm told the

00:30:47.300 family is in very,

00:30:48.260 very bad shape

00:30:49.320 financially right

00:30:50.620 now, especially

00:30:51.380 because the sisters

00:30:53.060 are now unemployed.

00:30:56.300 On the first point

00:30:57.520 about Kohlberger's

00:30:58.160 sister suspecting

00:30:59.540 her brother, that

00:31:00.100 first question that

00:31:00.740 was raised, it was

00:31:01.620 in fact reported by

00:31:03.040 NBC's Dateline.

00:31:04.360 That was the only

00:31:04.920 outlet that had this

00:31:05.720 info.

00:31:06.620 They had a source

00:31:07.420 who told them

00:31:08.180 Kohlberger's sisters

00:31:09.400 did wonder whether

00:31:11.540 it was their brother

00:31:12.900 who had something to

00:31:15.000 do with those

00:31:15.840 murders in Idaho.

00:31:17.440 Oh, watch.

00:31:19.180 According to our

00:31:19.720 source, investigators

00:31:20.640 learned the

00:31:21.700 following.

00:31:22.760 One of Brian's two

00:31:23.980 older sisters, home

00:31:25.180 for the holidays,

00:31:26.380 brought up an

00:31:27.020 uncomfortable topic.

00:31:29.040 The sister had

00:31:29.680 noticed Brian had

00:31:30.620 been wearing latex

00:31:32.080 gloves.

00:31:33.200 She thought it odd.

00:31:34.860 And at some point,

00:31:35.720 the sister, quite

00:31:36.440 loudly, pointed out

00:31:38.040 that at the time of

00:31:38.820 the murders in

00:31:39.420 Moscow, Brian had

00:31:40.500 lived just a few

00:31:41.260 miles away in

00:31:42.300 Pullman, and that

00:31:43.940 Brian drove a white

00:31:45.060 Elantra, a car that

00:31:47.020 law enforcement across

00:31:48.080 the nation was

00:31:48.880 looking for.

00:31:50.580 Add that to the

00:31:51.380 gloves.

00:31:52.400 And the sister said 0.93

00:31:53.240 she thought the

00:31:53.920 Kohlberger family

00:31:54.660 should consider that

00:31:55.580 Brian might have

00:31:56.740 killed the four

00:31:58.100 students in Moscow.

00:31:59.700 I mean, imagine

00:32:00.340 being this sister,

00:32:02.000 knowing about these

00:32:02.780 horrific crimes,

00:32:04.540 knowing that your

00:32:05.200 brother, who by all

00:32:06.500 accounts was a very,

00:32:07.680 I mean, odd,

00:32:09.060 disturbed guy,

00:32:10.080 lived right there,

00:32:12.620 has the same kind

00:32:13.840 of car that they're

00:32:14.800 looking for, and now

00:32:15.900 he's back at home

00:32:16.760 wearing latex gloves

00:32:18.660 throughout the house?

00:32:21.000 I'm sure she did

00:32:22.100 suspect him.

00:32:23.620 And there's probably

00:32:24.640 some, I don't know,

00:32:27.340 some willful blindness

00:32:28.480 by a family member

00:32:29.720 to the harsh realities,

00:32:31.380 but somehow it may

00:32:32.540 have penetrated even

00:32:33.680 that.

00:32:35.300 I mean, Dateline did

00:32:36.160 report that the sister

00:32:37.220 went on to search

00:32:38.580 his vehicle herself

00:32:40.620 for potential

00:32:41.860 evidence, but did

00:32:43.320 not find any.

00:32:45.180 They also reported

00:32:46.000 that Kohlberger's

00:32:46.620 father defended

00:32:48.060 his son at the

00:32:49.020 time, but did

00:32:50.560 Michael Kohlberger

00:32:51.500 suspect his son?

00:32:53.760 Remember, it was

00:32:54.560 the dad, Michael,

00:32:55.140 who flew to

00:32:55.660 Washington State

00:32:56.340 to accompany

00:32:56.980 Brian on the

00:32:58.140 lengthy cross-country

00:32:59.080 trip back to the

00:33:00.260 Poconos in

00:33:00.820 Pennsylvania, just

00:33:02.060 days before his

00:33:03.060 arrest and about a

00:33:04.320 month after the

00:33:05.040 murders.

00:33:05.360 And in a bizarre

00:33:07.180 twist, we actually

00:33:09.020 get to see the

00:33:09.860 father and son on

00:33:11.720 this road trip, not

00:33:12.640 once but twice, in

00:33:13.720 police body cam

00:33:14.660 footage taken during

00:33:16.140 traffic stops in

00:33:17.040 Indiana along the

00:33:18.040 route.

00:33:18.720 We brought you some

00:33:19.620 of this in episode

00:33:20.120 two, but when you

00:33:21.500 start to really

00:33:22.040 examine the stops

00:33:23.060 while thinking about

00:33:24.580 whether Michael

00:33:25.880 suspected Brian of

00:33:28.100 the crime, it does

00:33:29.620 cast a bit of a new

00:33:30.520 light on what we're

00:33:31.900 witnessing here.

00:33:32.780 Take a look at this

00:33:33.380 part of the

00:33:33.800 conversation with the

00:33:35.060 police officer.

00:33:36.780 What did you say

00:33:37.280 about some SWAT

00:33:37.980 team thing?

00:33:38.520 Yeah, there was

00:33:39.100 a mass shooting

00:33:40.280 and everything.

00:33:41.280 Where?

00:33:55.600 Interesting.

00:33:57.140 Well, it's horrifying

00:33:58.140 It's hard to make

00:34:03.540 out everything that's

00:34:04.260 said, but Michael

00:34:05.360 keeps talking about

00:34:06.660 a scary crime scene

00:34:07.860 back where their

00:34:09.060 road trip started.

00:34:10.140 Not the quadruple 1.00

00:34:11.260 murder case in

00:34:12.380 Idaho, but a SWAT

00:34:14.080 standoff that turned

00:34:15.520 deadly in Washington

00:34:16.320 state more recently.

00:34:18.240 On December 15th,

00:34:19.640 just slightly more

00:34:20.540 than a month after

00:34:21.340 the Idaho murders,

00:34:22.560 a man was killed

00:34:23.540 on the WSU campus

00:34:25.220 during a standoff

00:34:26.040 with cops.

00:34:27.260 On the evening of

00:34:28.100 December 14th at

00:34:29.040 approximately 8.30 p.m.,

00:34:30.960 police officers

00:34:31.660 responded to a report

00:34:33.000 of a weapon offense.

00:34:35.420 According to the

00:34:36.040 initial police news

00:34:37.160 release, a man in his

00:34:38.920 30s was threatening to

00:34:40.260 kill his roommates.

00:34:41.760 Now, the roommates were

00:34:42.600 safely removed, but

00:34:43.700 while Pullman,

00:34:45.040 Washington police

00:34:45.800 officers attempted to

00:34:46.860 speak with the man

00:34:47.780 making the threats,

00:34:49.340 he barricaded himself

00:34:50.500 inside the apartment,

00:34:52.180 crisis negotiators,

00:34:53.480 and SWAT personnel

00:34:54.660 had to respond to

00:34:56.100 the scene.

00:34:57.320 According to the

00:34:57.940 police, quote,

00:34:58.800 after unsuccessful

00:34:59.840 negotiations, escalating

00:35:01.580 behavior, and continued

00:35:03.140 danger to the public

00:35:04.140 and officers, the

00:35:05.480 male was shot, end

00:35:07.000 quote.

00:35:07.940 This happened at

00:35:08.840 4.22 a.m.

00:35:10.540 That man died at the

00:35:12.100 scene.

00:35:13.220 Now, the man turned

00:35:14.040 out to be 36-year-old

00:35:15.760 Brent Kopaka, a

00:35:18.120 Purple Heart recipient

00:35:18.940 who, according to his

00:35:20.120 friend, was suffering

00:35:21.600 from mental illness

00:35:22.460 after a possible

00:35:23.320 traumatic brain

00:35:24.180 injury from his time

00:35:25.680 in Afghanistan.

00:35:26.900 It's a sad and a

00:35:28.180 strange story, but if

00:35:30.120 you Google Brent

00:35:30.960 Kopaka and Brian

00:35:32.400 Kohlberger, you could

00:35:33.640 wind up down a rabbit

00:35:34.720 hole for days on the

00:35:35.860 internet.

00:35:36.580 And while they lived

00:35:37.800 near each other and

00:35:38.600 have the same initials,

00:35:39.740 there appears to be no

00:35:40.720 connection between these

00:35:41.460 two men, except that

00:35:43.480 traffic stop, sort of,

00:35:45.120 where Michael keeps

00:35:46.000 bringing it up while

00:35:47.320 sitting next to his

00:35:48.580 son, Brian.

00:35:49.560 He seems uneasy.

00:35:50.680 Maybe he's thinking of

00:35:52.680 the criminology student

00:35:53.900 he raised and the

00:35:55.400 crimes in close

00:35:56.640 proximity to where

00:35:58.320 his son resided, maybe

00:36:00.560 even hoping that the

00:36:02.140 dead man may have been

00:36:03.240 responsible for that

00:36:05.380 quadruple murder,

00:36:07.060 certainly not his son.

00:36:09.620 Finally, we got several

00:36:11.420 questions from our

00:36:12.560 audience about the

00:36:13.540 coroner's comments in

00:36:15.060 this case and the

00:36:16.220 autopsies.

00:36:17.020 Some strange statements

00:36:18.340 from her, a lack of

00:36:19.920 information or unclear

00:36:21.320 information when it

00:36:22.980 comes to the bodies.

00:36:25.120 Now, Kathy Mobbitt is

00:36:27.580 the Lataw County

00:36:28.440 coroner, and she has

00:36:29.580 been in this position

00:36:30.560 for 16 years.

00:36:32.720 Shortly after the

00:36:33.340 murders, she spoke

00:36:34.520 out to several news

00:36:35.900 outlets.

00:36:36.420 You don't often see

00:36:37.080 that with the

00:36:37.720 coroners, but here she

00:36:38.880 is with NBC News four

00:36:40.800 days after the victims

00:36:41.840 were found.

00:36:42.940 It's pretty traumatic

00:36:44.660 when there's four dead

00:36:46.280 college students who

00:36:49.640 have been stabbed to

00:36:50.560 death in one location.

00:36:52.560 And to local news

00:36:54.000 outlet, KREM.

00:36:55.760 Well, there was a lot

00:36:56.480 of blood.

00:36:57.240 It was, yeah, it was,

00:37:01.360 it's a very sad scene.

00:37:03.760 I don't know, like,

00:37:04.220 when do you, you just

00:37:05.100 don't see the coroner

00:37:05.940 speaking out every day

00:37:07.240 in the wake of these

00:37:08.040 murders.

00:37:08.440 Usually they leave it to

00:37:09.260 a police spokesperson.

00:37:10.800 It's a little strange,

00:37:11.520 but also watch how she

00:37:12.980 talks about the murder

00:37:13.880 weapon.

00:37:14.380 Um, you're ruling

00:37:16.540 all four deaths

00:37:17.380 on the sides?

00:37:18.280 Yes.

00:37:18.800 Okay.

00:37:19.540 And, um, can you

00:37:20.900 give us a matter of

00:37:21.700 death?

00:37:22.780 Yeah.

00:37:23.420 Um, I believe that

00:37:24.580 the press release was

00:37:25.660 that they were from

00:37:26.660 a, um, sharp object.

00:37:30.320 So.

00:37:30.820 So stabbings.

00:37:32.700 Yeah.

00:37:33.300 I will know more

00:37:34.500 after the autopsies

00:37:36.360 tomorrow.

00:37:40.160 She's citing a press

00:37:41.200 release?

00:37:42.360 I mean, okay, it might

00:37:43.800 just be a person with

00:37:44.520 very little media

00:37:45.220 training, but then

00:37:45.880 why would she be out

00:37:46.760 there?

00:37:47.160 Why did they put her 0.87

00:37:47.820 out there?

00:37:48.860 But her other actions

00:37:49.940 drew some backlash

00:37:50.920 from the family

00:37:51.920 themselves.

00:37:53.040 The lawyer for the

00:37:54.100 Gonsalves family said

00:37:55.160 that Mabit had made 0.99

00:37:56.560 quote, personal phone

00:37:57.720 calls to some of the

00:37:59.060 family and released a

00:38:00.120 lot of information

00:38:00.940 that investigators did

00:38:02.400 not know about.

00:38:03.460 End quote.

00:38:04.760 Steve Gonsalves,

00:38:05.660 Kaylee's father,

00:38:06.340 told Fox News that

00:38:07.220 Mabit was releasing

00:38:08.260 an inappropriate amount

00:38:10.140 of information to the

00:38:11.020 families, like the

00:38:12.280 specific injuries to

00:38:13.580 the students done

00:38:14.840 through personal

00:38:16.100 phone calls to the

00:38:17.120 families, he said.

00:38:18.680 Again, I haven't

00:38:21.160 heard of that, where

00:38:22.020 the coroner is

00:38:23.100 interacting directly

00:38:23.900 with the families

00:38:24.520 about the specific

00:38:25.500 injuries as opposed

00:38:26.440 to the police, the

00:38:27.900 detective running

00:38:29.240 herd on the

00:38:29.740 investigation.

00:38:31.000 Of course, this

00:38:32.180 information has

00:38:33.460 largely stayed out

00:38:34.760 of the press.

00:38:35.680 We have heard some

00:38:37.020 details, like Kaylee's

00:38:38.720 parents telling CBS in

00:38:40.020 September what Mabit

00:38:42.000 said about how Kaylee

00:38:43.860 and Maddie were

00:38:44.500 found.

00:38:45.720 The bed was up

00:38:47.160 against the wall, the

00:38:48.840 headboard was touching

00:38:49.620 the wall, and the left

00:38:50.760 side of the bed was

00:38:51.660 touching the wall, and

00:38:53.860 we believed that Maddie

00:38:55.240 was on the outside and

00:38:56.360 Kaylee was on the

00:38:56.920 inside.

00:38:57.820 According to

00:38:58.600 coroner Mabit, the

00:38:59.720 killer's first victim

00:39:01.080 was Maddie, says

00:39:02.640 Steve.

00:39:03.440 And then from Maddie,

00:39:05.320 he moved on to your

00:39:07.240 daughter, you believe

00:39:08.680 she had awakened at

00:39:10.000 that point?

00:39:10.780 Yes.

00:39:11.260 Yeah, there's evidence

00:39:11.860 to show that she

00:39:12.600 awakened and tried to

00:39:14.600 get out of that

00:39:15.180 situation.

00:39:16.080 The way the bed was

00:39:17.140 set up is what...

00:39:18.780 She was trapped.

00:39:19.540 She was trapped.

00:39:21.740 Some of the overall

00:39:22.740 confusion likely came

00:39:24.780 from how the four

00:39:25.500 victims were described

00:39:26.540 in the Kohlberger

00:39:27.760 arrest affidavit and

00:39:29.940 the inconsistencies.

00:39:31.580 All right, so let's

00:39:32.600 walk through some of

00:39:33.300 it.

00:39:34.380 Zanna Kurnodal's

00:39:35.360 injuries were described

00:39:36.840 in the affidavit as

00:39:37.760 being, quote,

00:39:38.800 caused by an edged

00:39:40.520 weapon.

00:39:41.380 What does that mean?

00:39:42.460 Like, why can't they

00:39:43.140 say knife?

00:39:43.640 What does that even

00:39:44.140 mean?

00:39:45.260 Of Kaylee and Maddie,

00:39:46.680 they were, quote,

00:39:47.960 visible stab wounds.

00:39:50.380 Is that a distinction

00:39:51.240 between an edged

00:39:52.500 weapon?

00:39:53.700 For Ethan Chapin, the

00:39:55.160 section begins by

00:39:56.740 saying he was, quote,

00:39:57.780 deceased with wounds,

00:39:59.640 later determined,

00:40:01.220 end quote.

00:40:01.960 And then there's a

00:40:02.620 curious redaction before

00:40:04.200 continuing, quote,

00:40:05.480 quote, caused by

00:40:06.660 sharp force injuries.

00:40:09.160 What's that?

00:40:10.840 Even stranger in that

00:40:12.200 affidavit, Ethan's

00:40:13.800 section references a

00:40:14.880 date for the autopsy

00:40:16.000 report as December

00:40:16.940 15th, 2022.

00:40:18.900 And that's more than a

00:40:20.300 month after the

00:40:20.840 murders and also

00:40:22.120 nearly a month after

00:40:23.020 the initial autopsies

00:40:24.080 were reported to have

00:40:24.860 taken place.

00:40:26.140 What?

00:40:27.260 This confusing

00:40:28.200 inclusion led some to

00:40:29.200 question whether there

00:40:30.220 had been a second,

00:40:31.440 later autopsy.

00:40:32.540 We simply don't know.

00:40:34.140 We don't believe there

00:40:34.980 was, but we don't know.

00:40:36.700 We also don't know the

00:40:38.340 number of stab wounds on

00:40:39.720 each victim.

00:40:40.960 And typically they would

00:40:42.580 release that.

00:40:43.600 This is relevant to the

00:40:44.740 timeline and, of course,

00:40:46.020 the ferocity of the crime

00:40:47.400 which the prosecutors will

00:40:48.560 want to introduce.

00:40:50.720 Remember, prosecutors will

00:40:51.780 try to prove that

00:40:52.400 Kohlberger committed these

00:40:53.360 four murders in a short

00:40:54.980 window of less than 20

00:40:56.720 minutes on two different

00:40:57.960 floors of the house.

00:40:58.820 The defense is going to

00:41:00.120 want to argue it's

00:41:00.980 impossible.

00:41:02.160 And so even the defense

00:41:03.000 may want to point out

00:41:04.280 the number of stab wounds

00:41:06.060 if it was high to try to

00:41:08.920 say how could he possibly

00:41:10.360 have done this?

00:41:11.380 There had to be multiple

00:41:12.260 people.

00:41:12.880 Who were they?

00:41:13.760 Where are the connections?

00:41:14.760 All of that.

00:41:15.960 Now, these details are sure

00:41:16.840 to come out of trial, but

00:41:17.640 as we told you at the

00:41:18.320 beginning, that trial is

00:41:20.400 not yet on the horizon.

00:41:22.620 Until it is, we expect to

00:41:25.020 get more.

00:41:25.460 There will be more leaks

00:41:26.320 and so on, but between

00:41:27.440 now and then, we'll stay

00:41:28.360 on it.

00:41:29.020 We'll bring you the

00:41:29.560 latest on this shocking

00:41:31.060 and just tragic case.

00:41:33.120 And you keep sending

00:41:34.220 your excellent questions

00:41:35.440 and comments to me.

00:41:37.080 We have amazing amateur

00:41:38.720 crime sleuths in our

00:41:40.700 audience.

00:41:41.160 You guys had such

00:41:42.160 interesting and good,

00:41:43.900 provocative, advancing

00:41:45.420 the investigation type

00:41:46.640 thoughts.

00:41:47.440 And we learned a lot

00:41:48.560 from you after, you

00:41:50.520 know, we reviewed your

00:41:51.240 comments to our earlier

00:41:52.240 episodes.

00:41:53.020 The email is

00:41:54.480 Megan, M-E-G-Y-N, 1.00

00:41:56.500 at MeganKelley.com.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - February 15, 2024

DNA, “Targeted,” Autopsies： Idaho College Murders and Bryan Kohberger, Megyn Kelly Show Special - Part Six ｜ Ep. 725

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