The Megyn Kelly Show - February 15, 2024


DNA, “Targeted,” Autopsies： Idaho College Murders and Bryan Kohberger, Megyn Kelly Show Special - Part Six ｜ Ep. 725


Episode Stats

Length

42 minutes

Words per Minute

156.9096

Word Count

6,740

Sentence Count

413

Misogynist Sentences

13

Hate Speech Sentences

4


Summary

Four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death in their own home in the early morning hours of November 13th, 2022. On December 28th, exactly one year to the day, suspect Brian Koberger was arrested and charged with all four murders.


Transcript

00:00:00.460 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.
00:00:12.480 Hey everyone, welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. I'm Megyn Kelly.
00:00:16.320 In December, we brought you five episodes of a special series devoted to the quadruple murders in Idaho and the arrest of suspect Brian Koberger.
00:00:24.960 The response we received was overwhelming in emails sent to me at megan, M-E-G-Y-N, at megankelly.com, in comments on YouTube and our other social platforms and the Apple reviews.
00:00:38.720 We were very grateful to hear from all of you and we're very glad that you enjoyed it so much.
00:00:44.000 Many of the comments we received were requests for more coverage, a little further digging into outstanding issues around this case.
00:00:51.800 These questions are what inspired this sixth episode in our series.
00:00:57.440 First, as a refresher, on November 13th, 2022, four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death shortly after 4 a.m. in their three-story home.
00:01:08.880 Those students were Ethan Chapin, Kaylee Gonsalves, Zanna Kornodal, and Maddie Mogan.
00:01:14.340 These were horrific, brutal murders, up-close, personal, and completed in the span of less than 20 minutes.
00:01:24.700 Two other surviving roommates, Bethany Funk and Dylan Mortensen, were home at the time.
00:01:30.340 We would later learn that Dylan Mortensen told police she saw an intruder in the home that night,
00:01:36.300 a man who was wearing a COVID-style face mask and who she described as having bushy eyebrows.
00:01:42.340 Approximately six weeks after the murders and arrest, the suspect, 28-year-old Brian Koberger,
00:01:50.940 a graduate student at nearby Washington State University, getting his Ph.D. in criminology.
00:01:58.220 He was taken into custody back at his family home in Pennsylvania in the Poconos and charged with all four murders.
00:02:05.940 In our earlier episodes, we went through the arrest, Koberger's past, his disturbing online writings,
00:02:13.660 the prosecution and defense cases, and much more.
00:02:18.740 Before we get to your questions, we begin with where the trial stands as of now, in February 2024.
00:02:25.380 We do not expect this trial to happen anytime soon, and it might not even happen in Idaho, where the crimes took place.
00:02:32.400 On January 31st, Koberger's lawyers filed a change-of-venue request, arguing the, quote,
00:02:39.940 extensive inflammatory pretrial publicity, end quote, could damage their clients' chances of a fair trial.
00:02:47.720 The request says that a, quote, fair and impartial jury cannot be found in Lataw County,
00:02:53.980 due to the area not having a large enough population center to avoid bias in the community.
00:02:59.340 At a motions hearing the week before, Lataw County Prosecutor Bill Thompson pushed back
00:03:04.580 on the notion that the venue must be changed.
00:03:07.420 He said the case was everywhere, meaning a change of venue wouldn't have any effect.
00:03:12.680 He argued that they owed it to the people in that county to at least attempt to seat a jury here first, as he put it.
00:03:21.040 At that hearing, we got a clue about when the trial might take place.
00:03:24.680 The prosecutors would like it to begin this summer, summer of 2024, so sometime around June,
00:03:31.580 when the university students are mostly no longer in town.
00:03:35.760 Koberger's public defender, Ann Taylor, however, said that timeline was not realistic in any way.
00:03:41.980 She said if the venue does not change, she will be pushing for a start date of summer 2025.
00:03:46.920 So for now, we wait, although we do have one noteworthy date.
00:03:53.380 On June 25th, 2024, famed journalist and author Howard Bloom's new book on Koberger and this quadruple murder
00:04:01.080 will be released by HarperCollins.
00:04:03.720 It's called When the Night Comes Falling, A Requiem for the Idaho Student Murders.
00:04:09.540 Bloom's reporting on this story for Air Mail News has been fantastic.
00:04:13.260 His writing, captivating.
00:04:15.060 We used it as part of our five-part series back in December.
00:04:18.960 And from what I know about the book, he has much more new reporting coming out.
00:04:23.020 And when the book hits, we will have Bloom on to talk about it all.
00:04:27.060 But now we want to get to your questions.
00:04:29.220 One of the most asked questions that we received was about the biggest development in the case,
00:04:33.660 which happened after we aired the series.
00:04:35.980 On December 28th, almost exactly one year to the day that police arrested Koberger,
00:04:41.380 University of Idaho officials demolished the house at 1122 King Road, where the murders took place.
00:04:49.900 The demolition began early in the morning and was completed within two hours.
00:04:54.160 Police were on hand to monitor the process.
00:04:57.020 University president Scott Green said, quote,
00:05:01.120 It's time for the house's removal and to allow the collective healing of our community to continue.
00:05:07.300 But before the trial, what if the jury wants to see the house themselves?
00:05:12.800 He also noted that both the prosecution and the defense were given access to the house,
00:05:19.440 which they did take the university up on, and that neither side requested that the home be retained.
00:05:25.880 Last month in episode 695 on The Megyn Kelly Show, I talked to Nancy Grace about this decision.
00:05:32.920 I can't believe they did this.
00:05:36.320 I can't believe that the interest of the beautification of the campus outweighed the interest of justice.
00:05:43.540 Now, I think that's a major mistake because very often it's alleged police wrongdoing,
00:05:51.920 whether it's some sort of misconduct or the gathering of evidence.
00:05:57.100 I think it's really important that the jury be able to see what happened
00:06:01.960 and then combine it as an overlay with whatever was on the body cams
00:06:08.040 so they know that there was no police wrongdoing, no planting of evidence, so to speak.
00:06:14.240 I would like them to see the room where that knife sheath was found
00:06:20.960 bearing Brian Koberger's DNA in the snap.
00:06:28.000 Two of the victims' families were vehemently opposed to the demolition
00:06:32.340 and did object the loved ones of Kaylee Gonsalves and Zana Kurnodal
00:06:36.760 speaking out before the house was torn down.
00:06:39.500 Quote,
00:06:40.240 There may be additional discovery by either party
00:06:43.100 that prompts one side or the other to go back to the scene of the crime.
00:06:47.000 That was from the Gonsalves family in a statement.
00:06:49.540 Quote,
00:06:49.820 Jurors are notoriously unpredictable,
00:06:52.480 and they tend to make decisions on a variety of facts and circumstances.
00:06:55.900 It would be foolish of us to try and foresee what they will want or need
00:07:00.240 to make a just verdict in this case.
00:07:02.740 End quote.
00:07:04.360 One family was supportive of the demolition, Ethan Chapins.
00:07:09.040 He was a triplet, and both of his siblings still attend the University of Idaho.
00:07:14.300 Can you imagine them having to go buy the house?
00:07:17.040 His parents said getting rid of this house was for the good of the university
00:07:20.740 and for the community of Moscow.
00:07:24.420 Many of you wrote in to ask also about the DNA evidence.
00:07:28.520 Remember, as far as we know, the police found just a single tiny sample of touch DNA,
00:07:35.880 which is not the best form of DNA.
00:07:37.540 They found it on the knife sheath found next to one of the victims
00:07:41.900 and were able to match that touch DNA to Kohlberger
00:07:46.940 using something called investigative genetic genealogy, or IgG.
00:07:52.280 They traced the DNA by matching it to someone in the Kohlberger family,
00:07:58.200 then zeroed in on Brian Kohlberger after realizing that it likely came from a relative
00:08:06.740 of a man named Michael Kohlberger, Brian's dad, who cops then obtained DNA from.
00:08:14.240 Actually, they went through his garbage, which is legal,
00:08:16.620 and figured out that there was some sort of a match.
00:08:19.820 They actually, at that point, could tell that Michael's son was a match to the touch DNA.
00:08:24.940 One viewer, Bill, asked us over email,
00:08:29.620 how did Brian leave no DNA at the crime scene?
00:08:33.180 Not one of his hairs, not any of his saliva or blood?
00:08:36.980 It's a good question.
00:08:37.680 It was just one dot of touch DNA on the knife sheath snap, that's it?
00:08:42.880 In a crime this gruesome and bloody?
00:08:46.180 We're wondering the same thing.
00:08:48.540 Scott, another viewer, added,
00:08:50.560 given the reports that Kayla Gonsalves appeared to have fought back
00:08:53.980 during the attack, he writes, quote,
00:08:56.660 there must be some DNA under fingernails.
00:08:59.960 Where is it?
00:09:00.600 If she didn't scratch him, did she pull his hair?
00:09:03.040 There should be hair strands.
00:09:04.120 If she didn't pull his hair, did she punch him?
00:09:06.560 There should be a DNA transfer onto the knuckles of her hand.
00:09:09.980 I just don't see any way, he says,
00:09:12.100 that someone could actively resist in such a way
00:09:14.580 that there would not be any DNA of the perpetrator.
00:09:19.140 Others asked about the apparent lack of DNA in Kohlberger's car,
00:09:22.440 Brian Kohlberger's car, while some emailed wondering about reports
00:09:26.380 that DNA from other males had been found at or around the scene of the crime.
00:09:31.640 We're going to take these questions one by one.
00:09:33.720 First, we should clarify that the police at this point
00:09:37.320 are no longer relying on just the genetic genealogy match
00:09:42.600 from Kohlberger's father.
00:09:44.540 As soon as Brian Kohlberger was arrested, his cheek was swabbed,
00:09:49.160 and that DNA sample was tested against the touch DNA on the knife sheath,
00:09:54.520 according to the police affidavit.
00:09:56.500 The police adding, it is no longer a question
00:09:58.200 that it was Brian Kohlberger's touch DNA on that knife sheath.
00:10:03.360 As for Bill's questions about the DNA at the crime scene,
00:10:07.560 that is a mystery.
00:10:09.000 As far as what's been reported,
00:10:11.820 there was no other DNA of Brian Kohlberger's found at the scene
00:10:15.680 or on any of the bodies.
00:10:17.460 I know, it's hard to believe.
00:10:19.240 Maybe there is, and they just haven't told us.
00:10:22.040 The prosecutors might have more,
00:10:24.000 but so far, neither the prosecution nor the defense
00:10:26.740 is saying there's anything more than this touch DNA.
00:10:30.480 This is going to be a big question at trial,
00:10:32.820 but all reports we have seen so far point to
00:10:35.180 the DNA on the knife sheath as being the prime,
00:10:39.100 and it appears for now the only evidence
00:10:41.920 that will be presented to the jury when it comes to DNA.
00:10:46.400 Remember, it's believed that the killer,
00:10:49.300 Kohlberger, allegedly, wore protective clothing,
00:10:52.440 a mask, and probably, almost certainly, gloves.
00:10:56.320 Then there's the question about the lack of DNA in Kohlberger's car.
00:10:59.980 That one has a bit more of an explanation.
00:11:02.620 Kohlberger was arrested more than six weeks
00:11:05.540 after the murders took place.
00:11:07.920 He drove that car across the country
00:11:09.680 with his father, Michael, going home
00:11:11.200 for Christmas break one month after the murders.
00:11:14.680 While in Pennsylvania, reports are he was seen
00:11:17.480 getting the car cleaned,
00:11:19.620 including one report saying he had used bleach.
00:11:23.100 All of this is believed to have happened
00:11:25.200 while cops had their eye on Kohlberger,
00:11:27.560 but before they could get their hands on the car itself.
00:11:33.280 It's possible that the cops went and retrieved some clues
00:11:36.260 or discovered some evidence from the facility
00:11:38.540 where Kohlberger cleaned the car, like, after he left.
00:11:42.480 But if they did that, it hasn't been made public.
00:11:46.040 If they did not do that,
00:11:48.120 then it appears to be the case
00:11:49.420 that they watched him clean the car,
00:11:51.100 potentially destroying evidence,
00:11:52.680 and did zero about it.
00:11:55.100 The car is in police custody now,
00:11:58.480 and they may have found DNA evidence
00:12:00.880 that has not been publicly disclosed.
00:12:03.980 They're definitely ripping that car apart.
00:12:06.260 We doubt it, however,
00:12:07.560 because the defense is saying publicly
00:12:09.620 that the police found no DNA in the car.
00:12:14.040 The question about the other male DNA
00:12:18.020 found at and around the house
00:12:20.280 is an intriguing one.
00:12:22.640 All right, this is one of the other questions,
00:12:23.940 as I mentioned.
00:12:25.000 In a June 23 filing,
00:12:27.700 one of Kohlberger's defense attorneys,
00:12:29.980 Jay Weston Logsdon,
00:12:32.360 wrote about the existence of other male DNA
00:12:35.180 found at the scene.
00:12:36.480 Now, keep in mind, this is a defense lawyer.
00:12:38.580 Here is how he described things.
00:12:40.020 By December 17th, 2022,
00:12:44.620 lab analysts were aware
00:12:46.380 of two additional males' DNA
00:12:48.280 within the house
00:12:49.040 where the deceased were located,
00:12:50.800 and another unknown male DNA
00:12:52.660 on a glove found outside the residence
00:12:54.900 on November 20th, 2022.
00:12:58.100 To this date,
00:12:59.320 the defense is unaware
00:13:00.120 of what sort of testing, if any,
00:13:01.560 was conducted on these samples,
00:13:03.120 other than the STR DNA profiles.
00:13:07.160 Further, these three separate
00:13:08.660 and distinct male DNA profiles
00:13:10.620 were not identified through CODIS,
00:13:13.580 leading to the conclusion
00:13:14.500 that the profiles do not belong
00:13:15.880 to Mr. Kohlberger, end quote.
00:13:18.200 CODIS is the Combined DNA Index System,
00:13:22.360 which is a national DNA database
00:13:23.960 maintained by the FBI.
00:13:25.560 If you're a criminal
00:13:26.160 and they've tested you,
00:13:27.420 you're probably in there.
00:13:28.700 The defense is claiming
00:13:29.800 the other male DNA samples
00:13:31.960 were not ever identified
00:13:34.080 and therefore do not belong
00:13:36.080 to their clients,
00:13:36.760 so who are these other males?
00:13:38.360 So you can bet the defense
00:13:39.160 is going to make something
00:13:39.860 of this at trial.
00:13:40.960 Why didn't you investigate?
00:13:42.100 Could that have been a suspect?
00:13:43.740 We don't know
00:13:44.420 who these other males are.
00:13:45.780 Other than to say the police,
00:13:47.280 the FBI, the prosecutors,
00:13:48.260 they obviously believe
00:13:49.700 they're not related
00:13:51.080 and that they have the right man
00:13:53.120 under arrest,
00:13:54.120 the sole killer
00:13:54.940 in this gruesome crime.
00:13:56.600 Okay, back to that same filing
00:13:59.160 and defense attorney Logsdon.
00:14:01.340 Quote,
00:14:01.560 There is no connection
00:14:03.180 between Mr. Kohlberger
00:14:04.180 and the victims.
00:14:05.560 There is no explanation
00:14:06.540 for the total lack
00:14:07.880 of DNA evidence
00:14:09.220 from the victims
00:14:10.460 in Mr. Kohlberger's apartment,
00:14:12.880 office, home, or vehicle.
00:14:16.120 In essence,
00:14:17.380 through the lack of disclosure
00:14:18.560 and their motion
00:14:19.380 to protect
00:14:20.080 the genetic genealogy investigation,
00:14:22.860 the state,
00:14:23.980 this is again
00:14:24.500 the defense lawyer claiming this,
00:14:26.180 is hiding its entire case.
00:14:28.480 End quote.
00:14:29.320 He goes on from there.
00:14:30.320 The state apparently thinks
00:14:31.800 that they need not explain
00:14:33.340 how they came to think
00:14:34.300 that it was Mr. Kohlberger's
00:14:35.420 DNA on the sheath.
00:14:37.040 Presumably,
00:14:37.720 the defense is expected
00:14:38.600 to accept at face value
00:14:40.280 that the sheath
00:14:41.320 had touched DNA
00:14:42.640 just waiting for testing
00:14:43.740 by all the FBI's
00:14:45.080 myriad resources.
00:14:47.140 Additionally,
00:14:47.800 the defense is to guess
00:14:48.820 whether the state
00:14:49.980 focused its investigation
00:14:51.480 on Mr. Kohlberger
00:14:52.400 via a bizarrely complex
00:14:55.120 DNA tree experiment.
00:14:58.000 End quote.
00:14:58.540 You can see what
00:14:59.000 they're doing here, right?
00:15:00.080 Planning doubts.
00:15:01.200 What's genetic genealogy?
00:15:02.620 Is it reliable?
00:15:03.620 Why can't we get more info?
00:15:05.360 We need to know more.
00:15:06.400 This whole thing stinks.
00:15:08.120 The defense continues.
00:15:09.240 The state appears
00:15:10.340 to be trying to hide
00:15:11.700 its original domino
00:15:13.220 such that Kohlberger
00:15:14.800 cannot discover
00:15:15.780 why he was targeted.
00:15:18.640 Mr. Kohlberger
00:15:19.220 has the right to discover
00:15:20.240 and question
00:15:20.840 the investigation
00:15:21.660 that led to him.
00:15:23.640 End quote.
00:15:24.800 Okay, so you can now see
00:15:26.100 the defense
00:15:26.700 is opening a very
00:15:28.200 interesting line of attack.
00:15:29.900 They are implying
00:15:30.840 the police
00:15:31.600 may have planted
00:15:33.260 the DNA
00:15:34.320 on the knife sheath,
00:15:35.940 put thereby,
00:15:36.700 as they write,
00:15:37.360 quote,
00:15:37.580 someone else
00:15:38.480 during the investigation.
00:15:40.240 We also get an indication
00:15:41.640 about the way
00:15:42.140 they plan to knock down
00:15:43.180 the entire concept
00:15:44.440 of investigative
00:15:45.960 genetic genealogy,
00:15:47.940 describing it as a,
00:15:48.980 quote,
00:15:49.040 bizarrely complex
00:15:50.720 DNA tree experiment.
00:15:53.260 They seem to want
00:15:54.320 to argue that
00:15:54.960 if that first domino
00:15:56.220 in the trail
00:15:57.180 to Kohlberger
00:15:57.840 was not reliable
00:15:59.360 or was the product
00:16:00.740 of junk science,
00:16:02.840 all evidence
00:16:03.640 resulting
00:16:04.360 from that domino
00:16:05.780 would be rendered
00:16:06.820 inadmissible.
00:16:07.720 Quote,
00:16:08.120 fruit of the poisonous tree.
00:16:09.260 That's what we used to call it
00:16:10.140 in criminal procedure.
00:16:12.040 And if,
00:16:12.920 if the tree is poisonous
00:16:14.060 and can't be allowed
00:16:14.900 in evidence,
00:16:16.120 neither can its fruit.
00:16:17.080 That's how they'll try
00:16:18.120 to get out
00:16:18.600 the DNA swab
00:16:19.580 of Kohlberger's cheek,
00:16:21.520 fruit of the poisonous tree.
00:16:23.140 For context,
00:16:23.980 here's a bit
00:16:24.420 from my interview
00:16:25.140 with Cece Moore.
00:16:26.840 She is the expert
00:16:28.340 on the practice
00:16:29.460 of IgG,
00:16:30.620 and she was on the show
00:16:31.420 in January of last year
00:16:32.640 in episode 470.
00:16:35.140 Watch how she breaks down
00:16:36.320 the way this works.
00:16:37.480 It's used all the time
00:16:38.940 these days.
00:16:39.880 The way she and her team
00:16:41.440 have been able
00:16:42.180 to make hundreds
00:16:43.100 of successful IDs
00:16:44.960 of violent criminals.
00:16:47.140 So we get the
00:16:48.280 unknown individual's
00:16:50.500 DNA from the crime scene.
00:16:51.740 It might be semen,
00:16:52.920 blood,
00:16:53.580 saliva,
00:16:54.520 even touch DNA.
00:16:55.900 So it goes to a private lab
00:16:57.580 where it is analyzed,
00:16:59.800 and just like they would
00:17:00.900 analyze it at,
00:17:01.920 say,
00:17:02.020 Ancestry DNA
00:17:02.860 or 23andMe.
00:17:04.260 We need it to be compatible
00:17:05.680 with those profiles
00:17:06.800 because that's
00:17:07.580 the type of profiles
00:17:08.880 we're going to compare against.
00:17:10.160 And then it goes
00:17:10.720 to our bioinformaticists,
00:17:12.240 our scientists.
00:17:12.880 Now, because these are degraded,
00:17:15.600 mixed,
00:17:16.720 contaminated samples,
00:17:18.020 these are not like
00:17:19.140 if you spit in a tube
00:17:19.980 and you have this
00:17:20.640 perfect DNA sample.
00:17:22.080 These are non-optimal samples.
00:17:24.840 And so we need something
00:17:25.760 called bioinformatics
00:17:27.340 that work with that
00:17:28.740 degraded DNA
00:17:29.620 to try to repair it,
00:17:30.920 upload it to GEDmatch
00:17:32.240 and or family tree DNA.
00:17:34.140 It's compared against
00:17:35.340 all the people there
00:17:36.320 that are opted
00:17:37.260 into law enforcement matching.
00:17:39.180 And we get a list of matches.
00:17:40.480 And we can predict
00:17:42.000 what the likely relationships
00:17:43.360 are based on
00:17:44.420 how much DNA
00:17:45.260 someone is sharing
00:17:46.760 with that unknown person.
00:17:48.820 You see,
00:17:49.640 so they get a match
00:17:50.600 maybe to somebody
00:17:51.620 in the Kohlberger family.
00:17:53.080 We can tell you
00:17:53.700 this touch DNA
00:17:54.560 relates to somebody
00:17:56.760 in the Kohlberger family
00:17:59.020 who gave their DNA
00:18:00.320 to one of these services.
00:18:02.020 But, you know,
00:18:02.580 Brian Kohlberger's
00:18:03.460 not in there.
00:18:04.520 Maybe not even
00:18:05.540 Michael Kohlberger.
00:18:06.160 We don't know who it is.
00:18:07.200 And then somebody
00:18:07.760 like Cece Moore
00:18:08.500 starts pulling
00:18:09.620 wedding announcements
00:18:10.720 and funeral announcements
00:18:11.960 and family histories
00:18:13.360 and anything
00:18:14.020 she can get her hands on
00:18:15.260 to try to zero in
00:18:16.820 on which Kohlberger.
00:18:17.980 What does that,
00:18:18.780 what does the family tree
00:18:19.760 look like?
00:18:21.480 And how can I
00:18:22.600 follow the tree down
00:18:23.860 to the most likely person
00:18:26.000 who's got a connection
00:18:27.300 to Idaho,
00:18:28.220 who it's a very complex
00:18:29.680 and fascinating
00:18:30.860 means of crime detection.
00:18:33.400 She's been doing it
00:18:34.420 for some time now
00:18:35.500 and she's been solving
00:18:36.720 tons of cases.
00:18:37.880 Um, so they got
00:18:40.240 close enough
00:18:40.960 to realize we should
00:18:42.000 check out the DNA
00:18:42.820 of Michael Kohlberger,
00:18:43.940 the dad.
00:18:44.560 They legally
00:18:45.520 got his garbage
00:18:46.600 and figured out
00:18:47.320 from that
00:18:47.940 this guy,
00:18:49.260 Michael Kohlberger,
00:18:49.900 is the father
00:18:50.960 of our suspect.
00:18:52.140 He's only got one son,
00:18:53.880 hence Brian.
00:18:54.860 Now they had other evidence
00:18:55.820 that led to Brian.
00:18:56.940 It's not all based
00:18:57.820 on this touch DNA,
00:18:58.880 but it would be
00:18:59.500 a huge win
00:19:00.260 if the defense
00:19:00.880 can get the touch DNA
00:19:02.380 thrown out.
00:19:03.760 Huge.
00:19:04.120 So we will see
00:19:05.440 eventually
00:19:05.760 what the prosecution
00:19:06.420 has exactly
00:19:07.580 when it comes to DNA.
00:19:08.560 Is it just the touch?
00:19:09.600 Is it more?
00:19:10.780 And ultimately,
00:19:11.840 whether it is admissible
00:19:13.260 for whatever it's worth.
00:19:14.840 Our lawyers,
00:19:16.060 our legal experts
00:19:16.860 we've talked to
00:19:17.320 on the show,
00:19:18.180 believe it will be admitted
00:19:20.120 notwithstanding
00:19:21.100 these objections
00:19:21.840 to IgG,
00:19:23.420 but one of the many things
00:19:24.640 we just don't know yet.
00:19:26.060 When we come back,
00:19:27.500 a look at some
00:19:28.340 of your questions
00:19:28.940 related to the six students
00:19:30.380 at the center of the case
00:19:31.500 and how some early language
00:19:33.640 by the cops
00:19:34.480 may have opened up
00:19:35.940 a rabbit hole
00:19:36.980 for the internet
00:19:37.860 that made the speculation
00:19:39.520 about this case
00:19:40.420 run wild.
00:19:41.980 We'll be right back.
00:19:46.960 One of the commentators
00:19:48.360 on our YouTube channel
00:19:50.300 wanted to know more
00:19:51.860 about the roommates
00:19:52.640 who survived.
00:19:54.140 I am with you.
00:19:55.140 Me too.
00:19:56.500 Bethany Funk
00:19:57.180 and Dylan Mortensen.
00:19:58.860 These are the two women
00:19:59.700 who were not attacked
00:20:01.260 and survived the evening.
00:20:03.400 Then he writes,
00:20:03.980 quote,
00:20:04.220 there is something not right
00:20:05.340 with the roommates
00:20:06.000 calling friends
00:20:07.080 before 911
00:20:08.260 when they discovered
00:20:09.840 the scene.
00:20:11.300 Yeah, I agree.
00:20:12.540 Something strange about that.
00:20:14.560 Others asked about
00:20:15.280 the possibility of texts
00:20:16.680 between the two
00:20:17.740 surviving roommates
00:20:18.660 during the murders
00:20:20.160 or at least before
00:20:21.540 the 911 call
00:20:22.560 that was placed
00:20:23.760 at noon the next day.
00:20:25.500 I mean that day,
00:20:26.260 but later,
00:20:27.220 you know,
00:20:27.360 several hours after
00:20:28.240 the 4 a.m. murders.
00:20:29.900 Here's what we know.
00:20:31.560 The affidavit
00:20:32.280 makes very clear
00:20:33.440 that Dylan Mortensen
00:20:34.740 encountered someone
00:20:36.340 during,
00:20:37.880 we believe,
00:20:38.220 right after the murders.
00:20:40.000 As a reminder,
00:20:41.260 here's what we learned
00:20:42.500 and the initials
00:20:43.900 DM refer to Dylan.
00:20:45.640 Quote,
00:20:46.180 this is from the affidavit.
00:20:47.740 DM stated,
00:20:48.980 she originally went
00:20:49.800 to sleep in her bedroom
00:20:50.700 on the southeast side
00:20:51.940 of the second floor.
00:20:53.480 DM stated she was awoken
00:20:54.700 at approximately 4 a.m.
00:20:56.800 by what she stated
00:20:58.100 sounded like Gonsalves
00:20:59.300 playing with her dog
00:21:00.520 in one of the upstairs bedrooms,
00:21:02.100 which were located
00:21:03.060 on the third floor.
00:21:04.300 A short time later,
00:21:05.580 DM said she heard
00:21:06.680 who she thought
00:21:07.260 was Gonsalves
00:21:08.140 saying something
00:21:09.380 to the effect of,
00:21:10.400 there's someone here.
00:21:13.040 DM stated she looked
00:21:14.600 out of her bedroom
00:21:15.400 but did not see anything
00:21:16.720 when she heard the comment
00:21:18.320 about someone
00:21:18.960 being in the house.
00:21:20.660 DM stated she opened
00:21:21.800 her door a second time
00:21:23.340 when she heard
00:21:24.020 what she thought
00:21:24.880 was crying coming
00:21:26.460 from Zana Kurnodal's room.
00:21:29.320 DM then said
00:21:30.240 she heard a male voice
00:21:31.360 say something
00:21:31.860 to the effect of,
00:21:33.220 it's okay,
00:21:33.940 I'm going to help you.
00:21:36.200 DM stated she opened
00:21:37.560 her door for the third time
00:21:39.300 after she heard the crying
00:21:41.240 and saw a figure
00:21:42.220 clad in black clothing
00:21:43.540 and a mask
00:21:44.740 that covered the person's
00:21:45.900 mouth and nose
00:21:46.500 walking towards her.
00:21:48.320 DM described the figure
00:21:49.300 as 5 foot 10 inches
00:21:50.820 or taller,
00:21:51.700 male,
00:21:52.400 not very muscular
00:21:53.180 but athletically built
00:21:54.420 with bushy eyebrows.
00:21:56.540 The male walked
00:21:57.120 past DM
00:21:58.280 as she stood
00:21:59.620 in a quote
00:22:00.280 frozen shock phase.
00:22:02.940 The male walked
00:22:03.900 toward the back
00:22:04.680 sliding glass door.
00:22:06.220 DM locked herself
00:22:07.020 in her room
00:22:07.620 after seeing
00:22:08.920 the male,
00:22:09.920 end quote.
00:22:11.420 There's more of course
00:22:12.380 in the affidavit
00:22:13.000 but why the roommates
00:22:14.500 waited
00:22:15.000 until nearly noon
00:22:17.000 to call the police
00:22:18.400 remains a complete
00:22:19.560 mystery.
00:22:20.920 And it's also true
00:22:22.080 as has been reported
00:22:23.300 that it was a friend
00:22:24.140 who called the cops.
00:22:25.380 A friend who was
00:22:26.040 at the house
00:22:26.580 because they had
00:22:27.640 been called
00:22:28.320 by the surviving
00:22:29.560 roommates
00:22:30.120 before the roommates
00:22:31.660 called the police
00:22:32.700 themselves.
00:22:33.580 All right,
00:22:33.740 so DM,
00:22:34.400 Dylan,
00:22:34.700 was allegedly
00:22:35.080 in a frozen
00:22:35.780 shock phase
00:22:37.160 until the next day
00:22:38.480 and then
00:22:39.440 what happened?
00:22:40.400 Did she come out
00:22:40.980 and see the bodies?
00:22:42.540 Did she just call
00:22:43.840 a friend immediately
00:22:44.600 and then the friend
00:22:45.240 came over
00:22:45.700 and saw the bodies
00:22:46.360 and called 911?
00:22:47.080 Why don't we know
00:22:47.880 this chronology?
00:22:48.560 Why wouldn't the police
00:22:49.480 make this clear?
00:22:50.440 There's something strange
00:22:51.720 about the whole story
00:22:53.860 and what's been disclosed.
00:22:56.180 We don't know
00:22:57.400 what the truth is
00:22:58.860 behind all of this
00:22:59.560 but we do expect
00:23:00.480 both of those roommates
00:23:01.880 to be called
00:23:02.500 to the stand
00:23:03.200 at trial.
00:23:04.520 That will be
00:23:05.380 absolutely critical
00:23:06.980 and probably
00:23:07.700 one of the most
00:23:08.180 watched moments
00:23:08.840 of this entire thing.
00:23:11.040 The question of
00:23:12.160 whether the surviving
00:23:13.020 roommates were texting
00:23:14.260 one another
00:23:14.760 during the murders,
00:23:15.640 that's actually
00:23:16.380 very interesting
00:23:17.420 or maybe
00:23:19.000 the next morning
00:23:19.700 before or while
00:23:20.960 they were discovering
00:23:21.840 the crime scene.
00:23:23.320 Howard Bloom reported
00:23:24.560 that Kaylee Gonsalves'
00:23:26.440 father, Steve,
00:23:28.680 heard through a source
00:23:30.380 that this question
00:23:31.860 about possible texts
00:23:32.820 between these two
00:23:33.520 came up
00:23:34.180 in the grand jury
00:23:35.600 proceedings
00:23:36.260 but we don't know
00:23:37.740 whether that's true.
00:23:38.880 We don't know
00:23:39.220 whether it did in fact
00:23:40.040 come up at the grand jury
00:23:40.860 and we don't know
00:23:41.500 whether in fact
00:23:42.280 there was texting.
00:23:43.720 The police certainly
00:23:44.640 do have their
00:23:45.340 cell phone records
00:23:46.120 and if there were texts
00:23:47.400 we're going to know
00:23:48.400 but we have to wait
00:23:49.100 until the trial.
00:23:50.660 Then there are
00:23:51.160 some questions
00:23:51.700 from YouTube commenters
00:23:53.360 that we can put
00:23:55.160 into a category of
00:23:56.320 well we'll call it
00:23:57.960 extreme skepticism.
00:24:00.100 One person asked
00:24:01.080 about reports
00:24:01.680 that the quote
00:24:02.320 house was regarded
00:24:03.580 as a drug house
00:24:04.940 throughout the campus
00:24:06.320 or the fact
00:24:07.360 that there were
00:24:07.900 group chats
00:24:08.640 that knew something
00:24:09.420 happened there
00:24:10.580 well before
00:24:11.680 they even called it in
00:24:13.760 end quote.
00:24:14.500 others asked
00:24:16.060 about Chapin's
00:24:16.900 fraternity
00:24:17.660 and the rumors
00:24:18.320 that there was
00:24:19.060 a potential fight
00:24:19.780 there that night
00:24:20.560 that may have
00:24:21.220 been connected
00:24:21.680 to the murder
00:24:22.160 somehow.
00:24:23.200 There's no evidence
00:24:23.800 of that.
00:24:24.320 No evidence
00:24:24.740 of a fight
00:24:25.480 at the fraternity
00:24:26.400 at least not right now.
00:24:28.040 It appears
00:24:28.560 that those are
00:24:29.060 just unsubstantiated
00:24:30.180 rumors.
00:24:31.460 Ethan's former
00:24:32.260 fraternity brothers
00:24:33.140 spoke out in November
00:24:34.580 about him
00:24:35.420 to KTVB
00:24:37.380 in Idaho.
00:24:38.240 Watch here.
00:24:39.460 It's the coolest
00:24:39.880 guy you'll ever meet.
00:24:41.080 That's about it
00:24:42.220 right there.
00:24:42.680 He was a really big
00:24:43.680 funny happy guy.
00:24:45.240 When someone
00:24:45.600 wanted to walk
00:24:46.100 in the room
00:24:46.500 like not just
00:24:47.260 me anybody
00:24:47.800 he would welcome
00:24:49.320 you into the room.
00:24:50.160 He was always
00:24:50.560 very kind
00:24:51.160 in everything
00:24:51.540 that he did.
00:24:52.460 He always
00:24:52.800 would call me
00:24:53.380 Gussie Gus
00:24:53.980 in his little
00:24:54.580 raspy voice.
00:24:56.160 Emotionally
00:24:56.600 always there
00:24:57.520 for people.
00:24:59.740 These guys
00:25:00.440 at Sigma Chi
00:25:01.100 dealing with
00:25:02.620 a tragedy
00:25:03.380 they never
00:25:03.920 foresaw
00:25:04.380 I'm sure
00:25:05.080 when they
00:25:05.480 entered
00:25:06.460 the fraternity
00:25:07.040 in campus.
00:25:08.640 The questions
00:25:09.460 about the
00:25:09.940 shadiness
00:25:10.340 of this house
00:25:11.440 on King Road
00:25:12.120 where the murders
00:25:12.620 took place
00:25:13.220 as some
00:25:14.200 described it
00:25:14.700 or even
00:25:15.060 questions
00:25:15.440 that we
00:25:15.740 received
00:25:16.060 about whether
00:25:16.480 a specific
00:25:17.020 roommate
00:25:17.420 may have
00:25:17.800 been the
00:25:18.060 intended
00:25:18.400 victim.
00:25:19.720 All of
00:25:20.200 that we
00:25:20.900 believe
00:25:21.240 can be
00:25:21.540 traced back
00:25:22.000 to the
00:25:22.240 way the
00:25:22.540 cops
00:25:22.840 originally
00:25:23.280 talked
00:25:23.700 about
00:25:23.900 this
00:25:24.100 crime.
00:25:25.120 From the
00:25:25.620 very start
00:25:26.100 the police
00:25:26.560 described
00:25:27.020 the killings
00:25:27.760 as quote
00:25:28.800 targeted.
00:25:31.120 Based on
00:25:31.860 details of
00:25:32.460 the scene
00:25:32.920 we believe
00:25:33.540 this was
00:25:34.000 an isolated
00:25:34.680 targeted
00:25:35.440 attack
00:25:36.060 on our
00:25:36.640 victims.
00:25:37.620 Even the
00:25:38.020 mayor
00:25:38.260 described it
00:25:38.900 that way
00:25:39.320 in this
00:25:39.720 interview
00:25:40.100 just days
00:25:40.640 after the
00:25:41.020 murders
00:25:41.300 with Good
00:25:42.060 Morning
00:25:42.280 America.
00:25:42.680 I think
00:25:43.320 from the
00:25:43.760 evidence
00:25:44.300 that exists
00:25:45.260 on site
00:25:45.980 the conclusion
00:25:47.480 was fairly
00:25:48.260 straightforward
00:25:49.260 that this
00:25:49.940 was targeted
00:25:50.640 isolated
00:25:51.660 doesn't pertain
00:25:53.140 to any other
00:25:53.800 location or any
00:25:54.940 other individuals
00:25:55.740 in the city.
00:25:57.080 Very strange.
00:25:58.360 How did they
00:25:58.740 know that?
00:25:59.260 And what were
00:25:59.640 they basing
00:26:00.200 that?
00:26:00.540 They said
00:26:00.960 nothing more.
00:26:02.900 This targeted
00:26:03.740 language continued
00:26:04.560 for weeks.
00:26:05.940 One state
00:26:06.380 police spokesperson
00:26:07.360 told the
00:26:07.920 Daily Mail
00:26:08.420 it's possible
00:26:09.560 all four
00:26:10.460 victims
00:26:11.020 could have
00:26:11.900 been targeted
00:26:12.420 by the
00:26:13.000 killer.
00:26:14.360 Prosecutor
00:26:15.000 Bill Thompson
00:26:15.520 told a local
00:26:16.180 news outlet
00:26:16.760 quote
00:26:17.100 investigators
00:26:17.660 believe that
00:26:18.800 this attack
00:26:19.380 was intended
00:26:20.140 for a
00:26:21.000 specific person
00:26:22.140 end quote.
00:26:23.420 Why did
00:26:23.820 they keep
00:26:24.280 saying that
00:26:25.000 over and
00:26:25.840 over and
00:26:26.520 over?
00:26:28.020 Moscow
00:26:28.340 police
00:26:28.780 captain
00:26:29.160 Roger
00:26:29.520 Lanier
00:26:29.880 said quote
00:26:30.480 we've told
00:26:31.260 the public
00:26:31.680 very clearly
00:26:32.280 from the
00:26:32.660 beginning
00:26:32.920 that we
00:26:33.320 believe
00:26:33.760 it was a
00:26:34.760 targeted
00:26:35.200 attack.
00:26:35.660 To be
00:26:36.000 honest
00:26:36.320 you're
00:26:36.940 going to
00:26:37.220 have to
00:26:37.480 trust us
00:26:38.120 on that
00:26:38.580 at this
00:26:38.960 point
00:26:39.200 because
00:26:39.500 we're
00:26:40.060 not
00:26:40.320 going
00:26:40.500 to
00:26:40.640 release
00:26:40.960 why
00:26:41.700 we
00:26:41.920 think
00:26:42.180 that
00:26:42.500 end quote
00:26:43.020 and
00:26:43.500 indeed
00:26:43.800 they
00:26:44.020 didn't
00:26:44.440 but by
00:26:45.740 early
00:26:46.020 December
00:26:46.540 the tune
00:26:47.660 changed.
00:26:49.200 Moscow
00:26:49.440 police put
00:26:49.960 out a
00:26:50.220 statement
00:26:50.520 attempting
00:26:51.020 to
00:26:51.440 clarify
00:26:52.640 a
00:26:53.320 miscommunication
00:26:55.060 saying
00:26:55.760 quote
00:26:56.060 detectives
00:26:56.680 do not
00:26:57.520 currently
00:26:57.860 know
00:26:58.280 if the
00:26:58.860 residents
00:26:59.200 or any
00:26:59.640 occupants
00:27:00.180 were
00:27:00.460 specifically
00:27:00.960 targeted
00:27:01.480 but continue
00:27:02.420 to
00:27:02.940 investigate.
00:27:03.780 Come
00:27:03.980 on
00:27:04.440 with no
00:27:06.900 acknowledgement
00:27:07.420 of the
00:27:07.900 number
00:27:08.080 of
00:27:08.220 times
00:27:08.560 you've
00:27:08.800 said
00:27:08.980 that
00:27:09.300 and
00:27:09.800 why
00:27:10.200 no
00:27:10.400 explanation
00:27:10.800 of
00:27:11.080 why
00:27:11.440 I get
00:27:12.320 that they
00:27:12.560 don't want
00:27:12.820 to undermine
00:27:13.320 the case
00:27:13.840 at trial
00:27:14.240 but this
00:27:15.120 is just
00:27:15.400 too glaring.
00:27:16.980 I mean
00:27:17.120 what does
00:27:17.380 this language
00:27:17.840 even mean
00:27:18.440 targeted
00:27:18.920 or specifically
00:27:20.080 targeted?
00:27:21.400 The confusing
00:27:21.960 mixed messages
00:27:22.820 in the early
00:27:23.420 weeks of the
00:27:23.840 case led
00:27:24.240 to intrigue
00:27:25.360 among many
00:27:26.160 including
00:27:26.520 true crime
00:27:27.320 watchers
00:27:27.760 and undoubtedly
00:27:28.920 many of the
00:27:29.560 theories that
00:27:30.080 have emerged
00:27:30.600 and continue
00:27:31.100 to percolate
00:27:31.660 online
00:27:32.080 are due to
00:27:33.060 this very
00:27:33.440 unclear
00:27:33.820 framing
00:27:34.300 by the
00:27:35.240 cops
00:27:35.680 from
00:27:36.380 the
00:27:36.900 outset.
00:27:37.680 Did he
00:27:37.920 know
00:27:38.260 them?
00:27:39.160 Did he
00:27:39.640 want to
00:27:40.640 be with
00:27:41.020 them?
00:27:41.400 Did he
00:27:41.760 post on
00:27:42.960 their social
00:27:43.380 media?
00:27:43.760 All of
00:27:44.080 these
00:27:44.200 questions
00:27:44.520 some of
00:27:44.880 which
00:27:45.040 we've
00:27:45.320 addressed
00:27:45.640 in the
00:27:46.100 earlier
00:27:46.360 episodes.
00:27:48.040 Meantime
00:27:48.600 we know
00:27:49.460 the house
00:27:49.820 on King
00:27:50.180 Road
00:27:50.480 was a
00:27:51.500 known
00:27:51.740 party
00:27:52.120 spot
00:27:52.540 and
00:27:53.560 according
00:27:53.820 to
00:27:54.100 Howard
00:27:54.380 Bloom's
00:27:54.720 reporting
00:27:55.120 the
00:27:55.760 neighborhood
00:27:56.280 where the
00:27:56.920 house was
00:27:57.240 located
00:27:57.640 was known
00:27:58.540 to be
00:27:58.820 an area
00:27:59.240 where drug
00:27:59.920 dealing
00:28:00.320 did take
00:28:01.180 place.
00:28:01.540 Okay,
00:28:03.140 what about
00:28:03.700 Kohlberger's
00:28:04.640 family and
00:28:06.260 the mystery
00:28:06.960 around the
00:28:08.000 autopsies?
00:28:08.880 That's next.
00:28:11.120 I'm Megan
00:28:11.780 Kelly, host of
00:28:12.460 The Megan
00:28:13.000 Kelly Show on
00:28:13.880 Sirius XM.
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00:28:21.480 cultural figures
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00:28:24.120 Kelly Show on
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00:29:08.720 apply.
00:29:14.500 One of our
00:29:15.420 listeners wanted
00:29:15.960 to know why we
00:29:16.900 did not mention
00:29:17.700 that one of
00:29:18.340 Kohlberger's
00:29:18.880 sisters, upon
00:29:20.060 hearing about
00:29:21.000 the murders in
00:29:22.140 the town adjacent
00:29:22.840 to where her
00:29:23.300 brother was
00:29:23.640 getting a
00:29:24.000 graduate degree,
00:29:25.340 immediately wondered
00:29:26.240 if he was the
00:29:27.680 guy.
00:29:28.540 What caused his
00:29:29.340 sister to think
00:29:30.540 that, wrote in
00:29:31.560 our listener.
00:29:32.940 Another wrote in,
00:29:33.780 if Kohlberger's
00:29:34.620 sisters were fired
00:29:35.400 simply by
00:29:35.940 association, that's
00:29:37.320 terrible.
00:29:38.220 I'd like to think
00:29:39.000 they'd be that much
00:29:40.200 more of a counselor
00:29:40.920 because they had
00:29:41.980 had to see or deal
00:29:43.020 with Kohlberger and
00:29:44.380 his struggles and
00:29:45.480 demons.
00:29:46.760 Look, to that
00:29:47.300 latter point, it
00:29:48.440 does feel like guilt
00:29:49.380 by association, but
00:29:51.260 I don't know.
00:29:53.480 The one sister's a
00:29:54.300 therapist, and I
00:29:56.640 can see how it
00:29:57.480 might be tough for
00:29:59.040 someone, let's say,
00:29:59.980 the victim of
00:30:01.200 domestic violence,
00:30:02.160 to keep going for
00:30:04.320 therapy from a
00:30:05.840 woman whose face
00:30:07.080 and name just
00:30:08.000 reminds you of
00:30:09.860 one of the most
00:30:10.400 violent, gruesome
00:30:11.420 crimes in recent
00:30:12.380 memory.
00:30:12.920 The whole thing is
00:30:13.620 fraught.
00:30:14.180 It's not fair, but
00:30:15.220 it's fraught.
00:30:17.060 News Nation did
00:30:18.080 report that both
00:30:19.780 sisters were fired
00:30:21.140 from their jobs
00:30:21.860 shortly after
00:30:22.900 Kohlberger's arrest.
00:30:24.000 Watch.
00:30:25.080 I have now learned
00:30:26.160 that Kohlberger's
00:30:27.400 two sisters have
00:30:28.860 both lost their
00:30:29.940 jobs since the
00:30:31.440 murders and were
00:30:32.180 let go because of
00:30:33.400 their relationship
00:30:34.120 with their brother,
00:30:35.300 Brian Kohlberger.
00:30:36.580 Kohlberger's older
00:30:37.300 sister was a school
00:30:38.320 counselor, and we
00:30:39.820 know his younger
00:30:40.480 sister at one point
00:30:41.580 at least was working
00:30:42.420 as an actress.
00:30:44.000 Both of Kohlberger's
00:30:45.100 parents are retired,
00:30:46.640 and I'm told the
00:30:47.300 family is in very,
00:30:48.260 very bad shape
00:30:49.320 financially right
00:30:50.620 now, especially
00:30:51.380 because the sisters
00:30:53.060 are now unemployed.
00:30:56.300 On the first point
00:30:57.520 about Kohlberger's
00:30:58.160 sister suspecting
00:30:59.540 her brother, that
00:31:00.100 first question that
00:31:00.740 was raised, it was
00:31:01.620 in fact reported by
00:31:03.040 NBC's Dateline.
00:31:04.360 That was the only
00:31:04.920 outlet that had this
00:31:05.720 info.
00:31:06.620 They had a source
00:31:07.420 who told them
00:31:08.180 Kohlberger's sisters
00:31:09.400 did wonder whether
00:31:11.540 it was their brother
00:31:12.900 who had something to
00:31:15.000 do with those
00:31:15.840 murders in Idaho.
00:31:17.440 Oh, watch.
00:31:19.180 According to our
00:31:19.720 source, investigators
00:31:20.640 learned the
00:31:21.700 following.
00:31:22.760 One of Brian's two
00:31:23.980 older sisters, home
00:31:25.180 for the holidays,
00:31:26.380 brought up an
00:31:27.020 uncomfortable topic.
00:31:29.040 The sister had
00:31:29.680 noticed Brian had
00:31:30.620 been wearing latex
00:31:32.080 gloves.
00:31:33.200 She thought it odd.
00:31:34.860 And at some point,
00:31:35.720 the sister, quite
00:31:36.440 loudly, pointed out
00:31:38.040 that at the time of
00:31:38.820 the murders in
00:31:39.420 Moscow, Brian had
00:31:40.500 lived just a few
00:31:41.260 miles away in
00:31:42.300 Pullman, and that
00:31:43.940 Brian drove a white
00:31:45.060 Elantra, a car that
00:31:47.020 law enforcement across
00:31:48.080 the nation was
00:31:48.880 looking for.
00:31:50.580 Add that to the
00:31:51.380 gloves.
00:31:52.400 And the sister said
00:31:53.240 she thought the
00:31:53.920 Kohlberger family
00:31:54.660 should consider that
00:31:55.580 Brian might have
00:31:56.740 killed the four
00:31:58.100 students in Moscow.
00:31:59.700 I mean, imagine
00:32:00.340 being this sister,
00:32:02.000 knowing about these
00:32:02.780 horrific crimes,
00:32:04.540 knowing that your
00:32:05.200 brother, who by all
00:32:06.500 accounts was a very,
00:32:07.680 I mean, odd,
00:32:09.060 disturbed guy,
00:32:10.080 lived right there,
00:32:12.620 has the same kind
00:32:13.840 of car that they're
00:32:14.800 looking for, and now
00:32:15.900 he's back at home
00:32:16.760 wearing latex gloves
00:32:18.660 throughout the house?
00:32:21.000 I'm sure she did
00:32:22.100 suspect him.
00:32:23.620 And there's probably
00:32:24.640 some, I don't know,
00:32:27.340 some willful blindness
00:32:28.480 by a family member
00:32:29.720 to the harsh realities,
00:32:31.380 but somehow it may
00:32:32.540 have penetrated even
00:32:33.680 that.
00:32:35.300 I mean, Dateline did
00:32:36.160 report that the sister
00:32:37.220 went on to search
00:32:38.580 his vehicle herself
00:32:40.620 for potential
00:32:41.860 evidence, but did
00:32:43.320 not find any.
00:32:45.180 They also reported
00:32:46.000 that Kohlberger's
00:32:46.620 father defended
00:32:48.060 his son at the
00:32:49.020 time, but did
00:32:50.560 Michael Kohlberger
00:32:51.500 suspect his son?
00:32:53.760 Remember, it was
00:32:54.560 the dad, Michael,
00:32:55.140 who flew to
00:32:55.660 Washington State
00:32:56.340 to accompany
00:32:56.980 Brian on the
00:32:58.140 lengthy cross-country
00:32:59.080 trip back to the
00:33:00.260 Poconos in
00:33:00.820 Pennsylvania, just
00:33:02.060 days before his
00:33:03.060 arrest and about a
00:33:04.320 month after the
00:33:05.040 murders.
00:33:05.360 And in a bizarre
00:33:07.180 twist, we actually
00:33:09.020 get to see the
00:33:09.860 father and son on
00:33:11.720 this road trip, not
00:33:12.640 once but twice, in
00:33:13.720 police body cam
00:33:14.660 footage taken during
00:33:16.140 traffic stops in
00:33:17.040 Indiana along the
00:33:18.040 route.
00:33:18.720 We brought you some
00:33:19.620 of this in episode
00:33:20.120 two, but when you
00:33:21.500 start to really
00:33:22.040 examine the stops
00:33:23.060 while thinking about
00:33:24.580 whether Michael
00:33:25.880 suspected Brian of
00:33:28.100 the crime, it does
00:33:29.620 cast a bit of a new
00:33:30.520 light on what we're
00:33:31.900 witnessing here.
00:33:32.780 Take a look at this
00:33:33.380 part of the
00:33:33.800 conversation with the
00:33:35.060 police officer.
00:33:36.780 What did you say
00:33:37.280 about some SWAT
00:33:37.980 team thing?
00:33:38.520 Yeah, there was
00:33:39.100 a mass shooting
00:33:40.280 and everything.
00:33:41.280 Where?
00:33:55.600 Interesting.
00:33:57.140 Well, it's horrifying
00:33:58.140 It's hard to make
00:34:03.540 out everything that's
00:34:04.260 said, but Michael
00:34:05.360 keeps talking about
00:34:06.660 a scary crime scene
00:34:07.860 back where their
00:34:09.060 road trip started.
00:34:10.140 Not the quadruple
00:34:11.260 murder case in
00:34:12.380 Idaho, but a SWAT
00:34:14.080 standoff that turned
00:34:15.520 deadly in Washington
00:34:16.320 state more recently.
00:34:18.240 On December 15th,
00:34:19.640 just slightly more
00:34:20.540 than a month after
00:34:21.340 the Idaho murders,
00:34:22.560 a man was killed
00:34:23.540 on the WSU campus
00:34:25.220 during a standoff
00:34:26.040 with cops.
00:34:27.260 On the evening of
00:34:28.100 December 14th at
00:34:29.040 approximately 8.30 p.m.,
00:34:30.960 police officers
00:34:31.660 responded to a report
00:34:33.000 of a weapon offense.
00:34:35.420 According to the
00:34:36.040 initial police news
00:34:37.160 release, a man in his
00:34:38.920 30s was threatening to
00:34:40.260 kill his roommates.
00:34:41.760 Now, the roommates were
00:34:42.600 safely removed, but
00:34:43.700 while Pullman,
00:34:45.040 Washington police
00:34:45.800 officers attempted to
00:34:46.860 speak with the man
00:34:47.780 making the threats,
00:34:49.340 he barricaded himself
00:34:50.500 inside the apartment,
00:34:52.180 crisis negotiators,
00:34:53.480 and SWAT personnel
00:34:54.660 had to respond to
00:34:56.100 the scene.
00:34:57.320 According to the
00:34:57.940 police, quote,
00:34:58.800 after unsuccessful
00:34:59.840 negotiations, escalating
00:35:01.580 behavior, and continued
00:35:03.140 danger to the public
00:35:04.140 and officers, the
00:35:05.480 male was shot, end
00:35:07.000 quote.
00:35:07.940 This happened at
00:35:08.840 4.22 a.m.
00:35:10.540 That man died at the
00:35:12.100 scene.
00:35:13.220 Now, the man turned
00:35:14.040 out to be 36-year-old
00:35:15.760 Brent Kopaka, a
00:35:18.120 Purple Heart recipient
00:35:18.940 who, according to his
00:35:20.120 friend, was suffering
00:35:21.600 from mental illness
00:35:22.460 after a possible
00:35:23.320 traumatic brain
00:35:24.180 injury from his time
00:35:25.680 in Afghanistan.
00:35:26.900 It's a sad and a
00:35:28.180 strange story, but if
00:35:30.120 you Google Brent
00:35:30.960 Kopaka and Brian
00:35:32.400 Kohlberger, you could
00:35:33.640 wind up down a rabbit
00:35:34.720 hole for days on the
00:35:35.860 internet.
00:35:36.580 And while they lived
00:35:37.800 near each other and
00:35:38.600 have the same initials,
00:35:39.740 there appears to be no
00:35:40.720 connection between these
00:35:41.460 two men, except that
00:35:43.480 traffic stop, sort of,
00:35:45.120 where Michael keeps
00:35:46.000 bringing it up while
00:35:47.320 sitting next to his
00:35:48.580 son, Brian.
00:35:49.560 He seems uneasy.
00:35:50.680 Maybe he's thinking of
00:35:52.680 the criminology student
00:35:53.900 he raised and the
00:35:55.400 crimes in close
00:35:56.640 proximity to where
00:35:58.320 his son resided, maybe
00:36:00.560 even hoping that the
00:36:02.140 dead man may have been
00:36:03.240 responsible for that
00:36:05.380 quadruple murder,
00:36:07.060 certainly not his son.
00:36:09.620 Finally, we got several
00:36:11.420 questions from our
00:36:12.560 audience about the
00:36:13.540 coroner's comments in
00:36:15.060 this case and the
00:36:16.220 autopsies.
00:36:17.020 Some strange statements
00:36:18.340 from her, a lack of
00:36:19.920 information or unclear
00:36:21.320 information when it
00:36:22.980 comes to the bodies.
00:36:25.120 Now, Kathy Mobbitt is
00:36:27.580 the Lataw County
00:36:28.440 coroner, and she has
00:36:29.580 been in this position
00:36:30.560 for 16 years.
00:36:32.720 Shortly after the
00:36:33.340 murders, she spoke
00:36:34.520 out to several news
00:36:35.900 outlets.
00:36:36.420 You don't often see
00:36:37.080 that with the
00:36:37.720 coroners, but here she
00:36:38.880 is with NBC News four
00:36:40.800 days after the victims
00:36:41.840 were found.
00:36:42.940 It's pretty traumatic
00:36:44.660 when there's four dead
00:36:46.280 college students who
00:36:49.640 have been stabbed to
00:36:50.560 death in one location.
00:36:52.560 And to local news
00:36:54.000 outlet, KREM.
00:36:55.760 Well, there was a lot
00:36:56.480 of blood.
00:36:57.240 It was, yeah, it was,
00:37:01.360 it's a very sad scene.
00:37:03.760 I don't know, like,
00:37:04.220 when do you, you just
00:37:05.100 don't see the coroner
00:37:05.940 speaking out every day
00:37:07.240 in the wake of these
00:37:08.040 murders.
00:37:08.440 Usually they leave it to
00:37:09.260 a police spokesperson.
00:37:10.800 It's a little strange,
00:37:11.520 but also watch how she
00:37:12.980 talks about the murder
00:37:13.880 weapon.
00:37:14.380 Um, you're ruling
00:37:16.540 all four deaths
00:37:17.380 on the sides?
00:37:18.280 Yes.
00:37:18.800 Okay.
00:37:19.540 And, um, can you
00:37:20.900 give us a matter of
00:37:21.700 death?
00:37:22.780 Yeah.
00:37:23.420 Um, I believe that
00:37:24.580 the press release was
00:37:25.660 that they were from
00:37:26.660 a, um, sharp object.
00:37:30.320 So.
00:37:30.820 So stabbings.
00:37:32.700 Yeah.
00:37:33.300 I will know more
00:37:34.500 after the autopsies
00:37:36.360 tomorrow.
00:37:40.160 She's citing a press
00:37:41.200 release?
00:37:42.360 I mean, okay, it might
00:37:43.800 just be a person with
00:37:44.520 very little media
00:37:45.220 training, but then
00:37:45.880 why would she be out
00:37:46.760 there?
00:37:47.160 Why did they put her
00:37:47.820 out there?
00:37:48.860 But her other actions
00:37:49.940 drew some backlash
00:37:50.920 from the family
00:37:51.920 themselves.
00:37:53.040 The lawyer for the
00:37:54.100 Gonsalves family said
00:37:55.160 that Mabit had made
00:37:56.560 quote, personal phone
00:37:57.720 calls to some of the
00:37:59.060 family and released a
00:38:00.120 lot of information
00:38:00.940 that investigators did
00:38:02.400 not know about.
00:38:03.460 End quote.
00:38:04.760 Steve Gonsalves,
00:38:05.660 Kaylee's father,
00:38:06.340 told Fox News that
00:38:07.220 Mabit was releasing
00:38:08.260 an inappropriate amount
00:38:10.140 of information to the
00:38:11.020 families, like the
00:38:12.280 specific injuries to
00:38:13.580 the students done
00:38:14.840 through personal
00:38:16.100 phone calls to the
00:38:17.120 families, he said.
00:38:18.680 Again, I haven't
00:38:21.160 heard of that, where
00:38:22.020 the coroner is
00:38:23.100 interacting directly
00:38:23.900 with the families
00:38:24.520 about the specific
00:38:25.500 injuries as opposed
00:38:26.440 to the police, the
00:38:27.900 detective running
00:38:29.240 herd on the
00:38:29.740 investigation.
00:38:31.000 Of course, this
00:38:32.180 information has
00:38:33.460 largely stayed out
00:38:34.760 of the press.
00:38:35.680 We have heard some
00:38:37.020 details, like Kaylee's
00:38:38.720 parents telling CBS in
00:38:40.020 September what Mabit
00:38:42.000 said about how Kaylee
00:38:43.860 and Maddie were
00:38:44.500 found.
00:38:45.720 The bed was up
00:38:47.160 against the wall, the
00:38:48.840 headboard was touching
00:38:49.620 the wall, and the left
00:38:50.760 side of the bed was
00:38:51.660 touching the wall, and
00:38:53.860 we believed that Maddie
00:38:55.240 was on the outside and
00:38:56.360 Kaylee was on the
00:38:56.920 inside.
00:38:57.820 According to
00:38:58.600 coroner Mabit, the
00:38:59.720 killer's first victim
00:39:01.080 was Maddie, says
00:39:02.640 Steve.
00:39:03.440 And then from Maddie,
00:39:05.320 he moved on to your
00:39:07.240 daughter, you believe
00:39:08.680 she had awakened at
00:39:10.000 that point?
00:39:10.780 Yes.
00:39:11.260 Yeah, there's evidence
00:39:11.860 to show that she
00:39:12.600 awakened and tried to
00:39:14.600 get out of that
00:39:15.180 situation.
00:39:16.080 The way the bed was
00:39:17.140 set up is what...
00:39:18.780 She was trapped.
00:39:19.540 She was trapped.
00:39:21.740 Some of the overall
00:39:22.740 confusion likely came
00:39:24.780 from how the four
00:39:25.500 victims were described
00:39:26.540 in the Kohlberger
00:39:27.760 arrest affidavit and
00:39:29.940 the inconsistencies.
00:39:31.580 All right, so let's
00:39:32.600 walk through some of
00:39:33.300 it.
00:39:34.380 Zanna Kurnodal's
00:39:35.360 injuries were described
00:39:36.840 in the affidavit as
00:39:37.760 being, quote,
00:39:38.800 caused by an edged
00:39:40.520 weapon.
00:39:41.380 What does that mean?
00:39:42.460 Like, why can't they
00:39:43.140 say knife?
00:39:43.640 What does that even
00:39:44.140 mean?
00:39:45.260 Of Kaylee and Maddie,
00:39:46.680 they were, quote,
00:39:47.960 visible stab wounds.
00:39:50.380 Is that a distinction
00:39:51.240 between an edged
00:39:52.500 weapon?
00:39:53.700 For Ethan Chapin, the
00:39:55.160 section begins by
00:39:56.740 saying he was, quote,
00:39:57.780 deceased with wounds,
00:39:59.640 later determined,
00:40:01.220 end quote.
00:40:01.960 And then there's a
00:40:02.620 curious redaction before
00:40:04.200 continuing, quote,
00:40:05.480 quote, caused by
00:40:06.660 sharp force injuries.
00:40:09.160 What's that?
00:40:10.840 Even stranger in that
00:40:12.200 affidavit, Ethan's
00:40:13.800 section references a
00:40:14.880 date for the autopsy
00:40:16.000 report as December
00:40:16.940 15th, 2022.
00:40:18.900 And that's more than a
00:40:20.300 month after the
00:40:20.840 murders and also
00:40:22.120 nearly a month after
00:40:23.020 the initial autopsies
00:40:24.080 were reported to have
00:40:24.860 taken place.
00:40:26.140 What?
00:40:27.260 This confusing
00:40:28.200 inclusion led some to
00:40:29.200 question whether there
00:40:30.220 had been a second,
00:40:31.440 later autopsy.
00:40:32.540 We simply don't know.
00:40:34.140 We don't believe there
00:40:34.980 was, but we don't know.
00:40:36.700 We also don't know the
00:40:38.340 number of stab wounds on
00:40:39.720 each victim.
00:40:40.960 And typically they would
00:40:42.580 release that.
00:40:43.600 This is relevant to the
00:40:44.740 timeline and, of course,
00:40:46.020 the ferocity of the crime
00:40:47.400 which the prosecutors will
00:40:48.560 want to introduce.
00:40:50.720 Remember, prosecutors will
00:40:51.780 try to prove that
00:40:52.400 Kohlberger committed these
00:40:53.360 four murders in a short
00:40:54.980 window of less than 20
00:40:56.720 minutes on two different
00:40:57.960 floors of the house.
00:40:58.820 The defense is going to
00:41:00.120 want to argue it's
00:41:00.980 impossible.
00:41:02.160 And so even the defense
00:41:03.000 may want to point out
00:41:04.280 the number of stab wounds
00:41:06.060 if it was high to try to
00:41:08.920 say how could he possibly
00:41:10.360 have done this?
00:41:11.380 There had to be multiple
00:41:12.260 people.
00:41:12.880 Who were they?
00:41:13.760 Where are the connections?
00:41:14.760 All of that.
00:41:15.960 Now, these details are sure
00:41:16.840 to come out of trial, but
00:41:17.640 as we told you at the
00:41:18.320 beginning, that trial is
00:41:20.400 not yet on the horizon.
00:41:22.620 Until it is, we expect to
00:41:25.020 get more.
00:41:25.460 There will be more leaks
00:41:26.320 and so on, but between
00:41:27.440 now and then, we'll stay
00:41:28.360 on it.
00:41:29.020 We'll bring you the
00:41:29.560 latest on this shocking
00:41:31.060 and just tragic case.
00:41:33.120 And you keep sending
00:41:34.220 your excellent questions
00:41:35.440 and comments to me.
00:41:37.080 We have amazing amateur
00:41:38.720 crime sleuths in our
00:41:40.700 audience.
00:41:41.160 You guys had such
00:41:42.160 interesting and good,
00:41:43.900 provocative, advancing
00:41:45.420 the investigation type
00:41:46.640 thoughts.
00:41:47.440 And we learned a lot
00:41:48.560 from you after, you
00:41:50.520 know, we reviewed your
00:41:51.240 comments to our earlier
00:41:52.240 episodes.
00:41:53.020 The email is
00:41:54.480 Megan, M-E-G-Y-N,
00:41:56.500 at MeganKelley.com.
00:41:57.980 Uh, you can also post
00:41:59.420 on our social media
00:42:00.380 channels or go to the
00:42:02.620 Apple reviews.
00:42:03.580 We review and read all
00:42:05.300 of them and it actually
00:42:06.960 helps the show.
00:42:07.800 You post a review there.
00:42:09.300 Uh, and while you're
00:42:10.540 there, do us a favor and
00:42:11.900 hit follow and download
00:42:13.640 on the show.
00:42:15.540 Listen, thanks for
00:42:16.440 watching and for listening
00:42:17.700 and for all of your
00:42:18.700 thoughtful commentary.
00:42:22.000 Thanks for listening to
00:42:23.040 The Megan Kelly Show.
00:42:24.120 No BS, no agenda, and
00:42:26.260 no fear.
00:42:28.360 OK, thanks.
00:42:29.360 Bye.
00:42:30.820 Bye.
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00:42:55.060 Bye.
00:42:55.580 Bye.
00:42:57.060 Bye.