The Megyn Kelly Show - Don Lemon Allegedly “Screamed” at Co-Host, and a Must-Hear Debate on the Alex Murdaugh Trial, with Jesse Kelly, Vinnie Politan, Steve Gosney, and Amy Hamm ｜ Ep. 486

00:00:00.400 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.620 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.140 Hunter Biden demands a criminal probe into the laptop he spent the last few years telling us wasn't even his.

00:00:23.040 Now he's super duper angry that people are spreading around his private information.

00:00:27.720 This guy, is he still on drugs? What is happening?

00:00:32.480 I love the news. I love being in the news business.

00:00:36.560 And this is the kind of story why.

00:00:39.580 We just spent how many intelligence officials?

00:00:43.540 It's disinformation. No, right?

00:00:46.760 Now he's filing lawsuits for the dissemination of his private information,

00:00:51.380 including against the legally blind computer repairman who had it as abandoned property to begin with.

00:00:59.220 That's how we first got our hands up.

00:01:00.420 It's you can't make this stuff up.

00:01:02.140 OK, in other news, we'll get to Don Lemon reportedly getting in trouble for screaming at his female co-anchor, Caitlin Collins.

00:01:10.300 We've got the tape that was reportedly the center of the dispute.

00:01:16.520 And we'll tell you what CNN is saying about it.

00:01:18.140 And we've got a new example of Disney trying to turn America's youth into social justice warriors.

00:01:25.700 This goes back to the like, don't just sit your kid in front of the TV.

00:01:29.400 It is not Mr. Rogers anymore.

00:01:31.540 Abby shaking her head.

00:01:32.420 Yes, she's got two little girls. 1.00

00:01:34.240 They're very young.

00:01:35.240 She thought she could put him in front of what was it?

00:01:37.100 Red Panda turning red, whatever.

00:01:39.600 Now, next thing you know, two year olds getting a lecture on periods.

00:01:42.980 Be careful.

00:01:44.100 Beware the mouse.

00:01:45.980 Joining me now to discuss it all.

00:01:47.100 Jesse Kelly, host of The Jesse Kelly Show.

00:01:49.740 And I'm right.

00:01:51.560 Jesse, welcome back.

00:01:52.500 Great to have you.

00:01:53.480 Megan, I feel like this is going to make me sound old, but I have two boys, too.

00:01:58.000 And I know exactly what Abby is going through, because I used to like when I grew up,

00:02:02.940 when we were kids, I remember the cousins would come over to the house.

00:02:06.740 On Friday night, and the parents would eventually kick us all downstairs, and we were all done.

00:02:11.980 And we would turn on ABC.

00:02:13.520 I'm almost positive it was ABC.

00:02:15.060 Thank God it's Friday, ABC.

00:02:16.700 And we would sit and watch Full House and Family Matters and all these shows that were just normal families.

00:02:23.440 And they taught, you know, values, don't steal, don't lie, that kind of a thing.

00:02:27.320 And I feel like I'm not that old.

00:02:29.560 But, man, I would never do that with my sons now, not in a million years.

00:02:33.040 You couldn't.

00:02:34.260 You're 100% right.

00:02:35.000 My little guy, Thatcher, he's nine.

00:02:37.320 He was just asking me, Mom, what's your favorite television series ever?

00:02:41.520 And he was looking specifically for a series.

00:02:44.780 And first I said The Practice, because I absolutely love that by David E. Kelly.

00:02:48.200 I could watch that over and over and over.

00:02:49.900 But then I corrected myself.

00:02:51.220 I said, actually, my favorite ever was Little House on the Prairie.

00:02:54.560 I watched it my entire childhood.

00:02:56.540 And then he said, how long did you watch it?

00:02:59.080 And I said, I got to be honest, I watched it through my young 30s.

00:03:03.320 I was practicing law in Manhattan.

00:03:05.760 It was like a stress reliever for me.

00:03:07.240 I'd put it on.

00:03:08.320 And it is.

00:03:09.000 It's just like good values and good stories and sort of reinforcement in a family of family values.

00:03:14.320 You know, it's crazy what they're putting on television today.

00:03:18.500 It's insane.

00:03:19.640 Honestly, the commercials are worse than what the...

00:03:21.620 Listen to how old we sound.

00:03:23.040 But it's true.

00:03:23.560 The commercials are as bad as anything that's on the actual TV.

00:03:27.680 I think part of this is just I want to go back to that America where...

00:03:31.640 And it's not that I want to park my kids in front of the TV all day.

00:03:34.240 I would like it to be an option.

00:03:35.800 I've got to go do some chores around the house.

00:03:38.100 I can't watch it.

00:03:39.040 Yeah.

00:03:39.320 Can I leave you there for an hour?

00:03:40.600 I would never do that.

00:03:41.480 I'd rather leave them with a table saw.

00:03:43.280 It's so true. 0.84

00:03:48.240 Wait a minute.

00:03:48.920 We might as well just go to that story because we're on it.

00:03:51.600 And it's shocking.

00:03:53.240 It was being tweeted around today.

00:03:55.840 And let me just make sure I have my facts correct.

00:03:58.780 Okay.

00:03:58.980 So it's on the Disney Channel.

00:04:00.940 It is a show called The Proud Family.

00:04:04.440 Louder and Prouder.

00:04:05.740 Which is a reboot from a series that first launched back in 2001.

00:04:09.380 It hit Disney Plus in early 2022.

00:04:13.540 So season two just dropped.

00:04:14.940 It's got 10 new episodes.

00:04:16.340 And it's about a girl named Penny Proud and her family.

00:04:20.720 All right.

00:04:21.040 So this is supposed to be, according to Disney, laugh out loud stories while highlighting culturally

00:04:26.340 specific experiences of the black community and addressing universal topics.

00:04:30.280 Well, okay.

00:04:32.000 Here's a little snippet of what Disney Plus is offering our children now as just a quick,

00:04:38.080 quick look at, let's say, America. 1.00

00:04:39.840 This country was built on slavery, which means slaves built this country. 0.96

00:04:45.840 Tilled this land from sea to sea to sea.

00:04:47.880 First there was rice, tobacco, sugar cane.

00:04:49.820 Then Whitney did his thing and cotton became king. 0.97

00:04:52.180 And we were its soldiers.

00:04:53.440 Four million strong.

00:04:54.600 Fighting for America's freedoms even though we remained America's slaves.

00:04:58.140 Built this country.

00:04:59.220 The descendants of slaves continue to build it. 0.90

00:05:01.940 Slaves built this country. 1.00

00:05:03.340 And we, the descendants of slaves in America, have earned reparations for their suffering.

00:05:07.600 And continue to earn reparations every moment we spent submerged in the systemic prejudice,

00:05:12.460 racism, and white supremacy that America was founded with and still has not atoned for.

00:05:17.780 We made your families rich.

00:05:19.320 From the southern plantation heirs.

00:05:21.080 To the northern bankers.

00:05:22.360 To the New England ship owners.

00:05:23.800 The founding fathers.

00:05:24.980 Former presidents.

00:05:25.860 Current senators.

00:05:26.840 The Illuminati.

00:05:27.780 The New World Order.

00:05:28.860 Slaves built this country. 1.00

00:05:30.340 We had Tubman.

00:05:31.340 Turner.

00:05:31.800 Frederick D.

00:05:32.360 Then they say Lincoln freed the slaves.

00:05:34.120 But slaves were meant.

00:05:35.200 And women. 0.98

00:05:35.980 And only we can free ourselves.

00:05:38.400 Emancipation is not freedom.

00:05:40.000 Jim Crow segregation.

00:05:41.340 Redlining.

00:05:41.940 Public schools.

00:05:42.580 Feeding private prisons.

00:05:43.600 Where we become slaves again.

00:05:45.320 As we celebrate Juneteenth.

00:05:47.040 For the umpteenth time.

00:05:48.500 Our account is still outstanding.

00:05:50.440 Because this country was built on slavery.

00:05:52.240 Which means.

00:05:53.120 Slaves built this country. 1.00

00:05:54.840 And we demand our 40 acres and a mule.

00:05:57.800 Bump that.

00:05:58.660 You can keep the mule.

00:05:59.680 Keep the 40.

00:06:00.380 We're taking our freedom.

00:06:02.860 Oh my gosh.

00:06:05.020 Chelsea.

00:06:05.980 You know Megan.

00:06:10.760 This goes to something.

00:06:12.320 That I think actually the right.

00:06:13.940 If I can speak at least briefly.

00:06:15.600 For the right.

00:06:16.560 Has failed on.

00:06:17.780 And I volunteer.

00:06:19.000 That I am very much part of this.

00:06:20.620 I've been part of this.

00:06:21.920 For how many years.

00:06:23.340 Has the right.

00:06:24.240 Said things like. 1.00

00:06:25.180 Some idiot actor. 1.00

00:06:26.560 Or actress. 1.00

00:06:27.000 Will get up at the Oscars.

00:06:28.040 And give some crazy.

00:06:29.020 Left wing political speech. 0.64

00:06:30.320 And will say something.

00:06:31.140 Like no one cares.

00:06:31.940 What George Clooney thinks.

00:06:34.020 Or LeBron James. 1.00

00:06:34.820 Will say something stupid. 1.00

00:06:35.540 No one cares. 1.00

00:06:36.340 What LeBron James thinks.

00:06:38.200 That's not true at all.

00:06:39.640 If you go look at the following.

00:06:40.880 Of these people.

00:06:41.500 There are millions.

00:06:42.120 And millions.

00:06:42.600 And millions of people.

00:06:43.600 Who do care.

00:06:44.840 Entertainment.

00:06:45.560 Is actually a critical.

00:06:46.920 Cultural pillar.

00:06:48.040 I mean.

00:06:48.220 Look.

00:06:48.500 They were putting on plays.

00:06:49.580 In Roman times.

00:06:50.340 We have TV now.

00:06:51.720 It's part of.

00:06:52.940 Guiding your culture.

00:06:54.040 For what you want them to be.

00:06:55.820 And what you don't want them to be.

00:06:57.560 It's just.

00:06:58.100 More than anything.

00:06:59.020 This is a reflection of what our culture has become. 0.85

00:07:01.420 Just a big bunch of grievance mongering whiners.

00:07:04.980 Everybody has something they hate about America. 1.00

00:07:07.680 America sucks because of this. 1.00

00:07:09.180 And it sucks because of that. 1.00

00:07:10.540 And again. 0.98

00:07:11.460 They're started when the kids are as small as can be.

00:07:13.560 This is on Nickelodeon Junior.

00:07:15.120 It's not just Disney Plus.

00:07:16.840 Kids platforms across the board.

00:07:18.760 They're all this filth now.

00:07:20.460 This is filth.

00:07:21.440 This is absolute filth.

00:07:23.540 Reparations.

00:07:24.080 And we still want reparations.

00:07:25.980 Systemic prejudice.

00:07:27.080 Racism.

00:07:27.660 White supremacy. 0.53

00:07:28.820 Still hasn't been atoned for. 0.89

00:07:30.620 We made you rich.

00:07:32.160 I mean.

00:07:32.740 The anger.

00:07:33.680 That they put in the mouths of these little kids.

00:07:36.520 Meanwhile.

00:07:36.940 As if any little kid walking around America today.

00:07:39.260 Is like.

00:07:39.480 We want reparations.

00:07:40.560 They're trying to plant these ideas early.

00:07:44.300 Think about how crazy this is.

00:07:46.480 Somebody like you.

00:07:47.520 Been on the Manhattan legal scene.

00:07:49.040 That's about as cutthroat business world.

00:07:50.840 As cutthroat business world gets.

00:07:52.720 How crazy is it Megan.

00:07:53.860 That Disney is coming fresh off a year.

00:07:56.280 Where board members.

00:07:57.500 CEO.

00:07:58.140 Had the CEO.

00:07:58.820 Got the got the axe.

00:08:00.220 Board members are sitting there.

00:08:01.300 Looking at profit loss sheets.

00:08:02.660 Showing 140 billion dollars gone.

00:08:05.220 Imagine having to present that to your board.

00:08:07.480 And how you're going to turn that around.

00:08:08.860 And after all that.

00:08:10.200 After all those losses.

00:08:11.180 They choose to double and triple down.

00:08:13.500 On everything that has turned off American families.

00:08:15.980 It's honestly a little bit scary.

00:08:17.480 If you think about it.

00:08:18.320 How many high power jobs there are.

00:08:20.840 That operate with no regard for their job.

00:08:23.340 Or no regard for the fiduciary responsibility.

00:08:25.700 To the shareholder at all.

00:08:27.480 It's all activism.

00:08:29.000 All the time.

00:08:30.340 It's crazy that this is allowed to go on in the boardroom.

00:08:33.900 It's like.

00:08:34.800 They're trying to make these children.

00:08:37.140 Hate America. 0.99

00:08:38.640 Hate America. 0.96

00:08:39.320 It's literally the opposite of what you get in China. 0.94

00:08:41.120 Where it's like mandatory nationalism.

00:08:44.440 Mandatory.

00:08:44.920 You know.

00:08:45.720 Homage to the flag.

00:08:46.820 Which.

00:08:47.600 Pieces of it are appealing.

00:08:49.340 This is the opposite.

00:08:50.340 Trying to make them hate the country from a very tender age.

00:08:52.900 And honestly.

00:08:53.600 Just the racism of it.

00:08:55.140 Okay.

00:08:55.380 So this is a.

00:08:56.080 This is a channel that's supposed to appeal.

00:08:57.920 I guess. 0.95

00:08:58.500 To black families. 0.98

00:08:59.960 What. 0.99

00:09:00.360 What black families. 0.99

00:09:01.660 What. 0.88

00:09:02.000 What. 1.00

00:09:02.100 Are they just assumed black families all hate America. 0.99

00:09:04.300 I want to talk about. 0.99

00:09:05.500 Demand reparations.

00:09:06.560 And how we've.

00:09:07.160 We haven't made it past slavery.

00:09:08.980 Who.

00:09:09.260 Who.

00:09:09.820 Who are the black families they're hanging out with.

00:09:13.380 Well.

00:09:13.980 That's actually a good.

00:09:15.000 That's a good question Megan.

00:09:16.240 Because this is a big problem we have.

00:09:18.480 In that America is so.

00:09:20.880 Divided now.

00:09:21.640 Now.

00:09:21.840 That's a very common thing to say.

00:09:23.280 We're divided.

00:09:24.100 We're divided.

00:09:24.580 But.

00:09:24.960 Let me.

00:09:25.240 Let me explain for a second.

00:09:26.720 We have urban America.

00:09:28.440 You know.

00:09:28.580 You have L.A., New York, Chicago.

00:09:30.520 And I love those cities.

00:09:31.680 Actually.

00:09:31.960 I have a blast in all of them.

00:09:33.440 But they are very.

00:09:34.280 Very separate.

00:09:35.180 And very different.

00:09:35.920 From the values.

00:09:36.880 Of the vast sea.

00:09:38.740 Of the land of America.

00:09:40.320 If you look at like.

00:09:41.100 A congressional map of America.

00:09:42.160 It's all red.

00:09:42.780 You look at it.

00:09:43.300 And think.

00:09:43.540 Wow.

00:09:43.640 That must be the most Republican.

00:09:45.320 Country ever.

00:09:46.100 But it's not.

00:09:47.320 Because.

00:09:48.300 All the entertainment.

00:09:49.760 Is only made.

00:09:51.180 In those tiny areas.

00:09:52.620 And even the people.

00:09:53.620 Who make these Disney shows. 0.98

00:09:54.780 And crap like that. 0.99

00:09:55.800 They live. 0.99

00:09:56.420 Work and worship.

00:09:57.120 Exclusively around people.

00:09:59.180 Who share nothing.

00:10:00.740 In common.

00:10:01.460 With what people would consider.

00:10:02.780 To be flyover country.

00:10:04.920 Therefore.

00:10:05.220 There's no.

00:10:06.220 Equal representation.

00:10:07.180 Of values anymore.

00:10:08.280 On television.

00:10:08.860 Because none of those people.

00:10:09.940 Have any connection.

00:10:10.840 To how normal people live.

00:10:12.500 Or what normal people go through.

00:10:14.280 That's the truth.

00:10:15.660 That's exactly right.

00:10:16.760 They really need to get.

00:10:17.660 To flyover country.

00:10:18.460 Like that Chinese balloon.

00:10:21.600 Can you believe this?

00:10:22.580 She's.

00:10:24.140 The Chinese have been in flyover country.

00:10:26.240 More than the executives at Disney.

00:10:28.920 What's.

00:10:30.100 The most bizarre story.

00:10:31.720 Isn't it?

00:10:32.880 It's so bizarre.

00:10:34.700 That we have.

00:10:35.680 Now.

00:10:36.240 24 plus hours.

00:10:38.060 I believe they've known about it.

00:10:39.400 For 48 plus.

00:10:40.280 24 plus hours.

00:10:41.200 Of reporting on it.

00:10:42.860 Why are we still reporting.

00:10:44.700 On a spy balloon?

00:10:46.080 Why is this news.

00:10:47.720 Whatsoever.

00:10:48.320 How have we not shot this down?

00:10:49.840 The Chinese didn't do this on accident.

00:10:53.740 The Chinese are very clearly doing this on purpose. 1.00

00:10:56.860 They didn't give a whoopsie whoops.

00:10:58.960 We spilled our satellite in your airspace.

00:11:01.260 They did this on purpose.

00:11:03.140 They knew we would see it.

00:11:04.720 They knew we would know about it.

00:11:06.480 They're very clearly thumbing their nose at us.

00:11:09.140 Seeing if we'll do anything about it.

00:11:11.360 And honestly.

00:11:11.940 Every second we wait.

00:11:13.580 Matters a lot now. 1.00

00:11:14.920 We look so pathetic. 0.99

00:11:16.820 It should have been instant. 0.99

00:11:18.200 Chinese spy satellite.

00:11:20.980 Vaporized.

00:11:21.800 But instead.

00:11:22.660 We look like we're going to hand ring about this.

00:11:25.160 We better consult with our state department people.

00:11:27.360 Who went to Harvard about what.

00:11:29.060 What does the book say?

00:11:30.100 It's the smartest thing.

00:11:31.680 Shoot it out of the sky. 0.52

00:11:32.860 It's a message.

00:11:33.940 Even the information it's collecting up there.

00:11:36.360 It's not as damaging.

00:11:37.560 As the message this is sending to the Chinese communist party. 0.97

00:11:40.440 That we're too pathetic to actually guard the airspace of the United States of America. 1.00

00:11:44.880 This is how this crap begins. 1.00

00:11:46.340 It begins small like this. 1.00

00:11:47.760 And it ends ugly.

00:11:49.440 That's a very good point.

00:11:50.620 Honestly the thing is as big as three buses.

00:11:53.240 So you're right.

00:11:53.800 They had to know that we would see it.

00:11:55.580 And as somebody who owns property in Montana.

00:11:58.160 Yeah I object.

00:11:59.300 I object.

00:12:00.340 I liked your idea.

00:12:01.240 I saw on Twitter.

00:12:02.220 You said something to the effect of.

00:12:03.680 No we shouldn't shoot it down.

00:12:04.940 People should line up and moon it.

00:12:06.580 I'm going to go to my little cabin in Montana.

00:12:08.320 Put a big middle finger on the top of it.

00:12:10.580 Or maybe I'll put a picture of the Uyghurs. 1.00

00:12:12.300 Or something that'll irritate them.

00:12:13.980 This is obnoxious.

00:12:15.080 And of course it's just them doing out in the open what they do behind the scenes 24

00:12:19.200 7.

00:12:19.760 But I think the reason we're not doing anything is because Blinken, Secretary of State, is

00:12:22.920 about to go over there and meet with the Chinese leader.

00:12:25.760 But this is absurd.

00:12:26.880 He's thumbing the middle finger at us.

00:12:29.160 And we're just cowering saying okay okay do what you want.

00:12:32.860 Of course it's a leverage move over Blinken too.

00:12:36.140 I had the exact same thought.

00:12:37.380 As soon as I saw it I was like wait a minute isn't Blinken going over there soon?

00:12:40.960 As soon as I confirm that this is clearly one of those things where you're doing something

00:12:45.360 prior to a business meeting or a merger or something like that where you kind of try

00:12:49.480 to Tommy Topper the guy on the way in the door to gain a little bit more leverage.

00:12:53.460 That's all this is is leverage.

00:12:54.640 Wait what's Tommy Topper?

00:12:56.840 Isn't that a great thing?

00:12:58.020 And they've done this to us ever since Biden got elected.

00:13:00.760 Remember as soon as Biden got elected they sat. 0.99

00:13:03.480 We had to go send Blinken that idiot up there to sit down with the Chinese at that meeting. 1.00

00:13:07.140 And they said you have no authority here. 1.00

00:13:09.280 You have no power over us here.

00:13:11.300 They immediately started talking down to us as soon as China Joe and his son Hunter took

00:13:16.420 the reins of power.

00:13:17.500 And I still make a connection Megan and I know maybe I shouldn't make that connection.

00:13:21.340 But I make a connection that China very clearly has blackmail information on the Biden family.

00:13:26.560 Hunter most definitely.

00:13:28.060 We basically know that by now.

00:13:30.000 You're telling me that doesn't ever go into Joe's mind or never goes into his consideration

00:13:34.240 whenever China is once again tiptoeing up to that line, seeing where it is for us.

00:13:39.220 I bet you money that backs him off sometimes.

00:13:41.500 It takes me off.

00:13:42.860 Now, my my crack team is telling me we just got this in that Blinken just postponed his

00:13:47.580 trip so that take that we postpone it.

00:13:51.400 But meanwhile, you got the former secretary of defense, Mark Esper on TV today saying, OK,

00:13:56.180 well, maybe maybe I would try to negotiate something or diplomatically resolve this.

00:14:01.500 But here's what I would have done immediately after that failed.

00:14:04.440 Listen.

00:14:06.000 I'm surprised by this.

00:14:07.360 I think it is a brazen act by the Chinese to do this. 1.00

00:14:10.620 My interest would be not necessarily shooting it down, but bringing bringing it down so that

00:14:15.360 we can capture the equipment and understand exactly what they do.

00:14:18.500 They're doing.

00:14:18.920 Are they taking pictures?

00:14:20.060 Are they intercepting signals?

00:14:21.760 What are they doing?

00:14:22.500 And what is the level of technical capability?

00:14:25.240 It will tell us a lot about what they're trying to do, what they're trying to learn.

00:14:28.980 And failing that, I would definitely shoot it down, provided that there's no risk to people

00:14:32.960 on the ground.

00:14:34.000 And so at the political level, we have to push back.

00:14:36.160 We have to defend American sovereignty.

00:14:38.140 And we have to make clear to the Chinese that we're not going to tolerate. 1.00

00:14:42.120 Yes.

00:14:42.580 OK, correcting myself.

00:14:43.620 He wasn't saying negotiate.

00:14:44.760 He was saying, get it so we can see what's on it.

00:14:48.140 And short of that, blast it out of the sky.

00:14:50.860 So he's on the same page as you are.

00:14:52.460 But meanwhile, we're doing.

00:14:54.760 Oh, nothing.

00:14:55.760 That's what we're doing.

00:14:56.440 Nothing.

00:14:57.440 Nothing.

00:14:58.000 We're embarrassing ourselves, Megan.

00:14:59.580 We are doing that.

00:15:00.300 And we're showing ourselves to be weak in front of one of these strong men.

00:15:03.540 Like we've seen how well that's worked out historically.

00:15:06.260 But I will point out something.

00:15:07.600 And I don't want to be this guy to point fingers at everybody.

00:15:10.360 All right.

00:15:10.660 But if you're an American citizen sitting here worried about a Chinese spy balloon while you post videos on TikTok, may I suggest that you're probably already participating in a Chinese spying program?

00:15:23.980 And maybe that is actually more important to you personally than the big satellite hanging over the sky.

00:15:29.640 That is Joe Biden's problem.

00:15:32.000 Inviting China into your home is your problem. 1.00

00:15:34.600 That's probably something we could all be a little better at, to be frank.

00:15:37.820 It's not a bad point.

00:15:38.980 It doesn't look like we are going to do anything.

00:15:40.800 But this actually could be potentially compromising.

00:15:43.960 I don't know.

00:15:44.420 They say that in Montana, there's the 341st Missile Wing at Maelstrom Air Force Base, one of three American Air Force bases that operate and maintain intercontinental ballistic missiles.

00:15:55.260 But, you know, our experts are saying they don't think they're getting anything through this balloon that they couldn't have gotten through a satellite.

00:16:01.320 But even so, what the hell is it doing there?

00:16:03.500 Like it's basically moved in where I'm going to share property taxes with it in the next six months.

00:16:07.700 Well, I think it's got it's got to be more of a message than anything.

00:16:11.560 And I actually grew up in Montana.

00:16:12.860 I know, like you said, you have some land up there and it's common knowledge.

00:16:17.100 It's not as if, like you just pointed out, they're gaining new information by pictures taking place up above.

00:16:23.040 My old man was driving me past these missile silo locations when we were going deer hunting when I was 15 years old.

00:16:29.340 This is common knowledge that China certainly knows about. 0.99

00:16:31.920 If idiot 15-year-old Jesse knew about it, I promise the Chinese Communist Party does. 1.00

00:16:36.380 So it's not as if they're gaining important information. 1.00

00:16:39.840 That's why this is clearly just a big up yours.

00:16:43.420 It's a big middle finger.

00:16:44.780 It's what will you do about it, Joe?

00:16:46.400 How far can we push America?

00:16:48.220 And this is as they're doing flybys daily of Taiwan.

00:16:52.420 They're basically wargaming Taiwan at Taiwan, which shows you they're gearing up to do something, I think.

00:16:59.500 And I'm really bummed out about this for what this might mean.

00:17:02.500 I'm not quite so sure we're going to get to the next two years of Joe's presidency without China popping off on something significant.

00:17:09.200 It's scary.

00:17:10.080 I know, especially with the whole Russia-Ukraine thing and our focus there and our money there and our military assets going there.

00:17:18.120 So you may be tough on yourself at age 15, Jesse, but I bet at your worst, at your most knuckleheaded, you were not the knucklehead that Hunter Biden is.

00:17:27.420 Your dad, he'd take a Jesse Kelly any day over that, son.

00:17:30.920 And the news gets worse and worse.

00:17:32.960 So let me just start with this.

00:17:34.660 This isn't like the thing they're trying to distract from.

00:17:37.020 But I do feel it bears mention that there was a story yesterday that the son of the sitting president was caught on tape, like one of the other things he had on his laptop, asking some assistant to put a camera on herself in the shower so he could get off watching her.

00:17:53.760 He managed to get her into bed.

00:17:55.680 He filmed it.

00:17:57.160 There's pictures of him like behind her. 0.91

00:17:59.180 It's just absolutely every story about him is absolutely disgusting. 1.00

00:18:03.400 He's a disgusting, loathsome human being. 1.00

00:18:07.020 Right. 1.00

00:18:07.560 He's what they wanted to make Don Trump Jr.

00:18:09.880 Into, but never could.

00:18:11.920 That's what Hunter is.

00:18:13.060 But really, they're worried about the Hunter influence peddling scheme with China.

00:18:18.340 I mean, that's that's where the real story is.

00:18:20.580 What what were they paying him for?

00:18:22.620 What did they get in return?

00:18:23.920 And as that story ramps up, because House Republicans now have control of the House, we get Hunter Biden fighting back.

00:18:34.060 Jesse, he's fighting.

00:18:35.700 He's he's sick and tired.

00:18:37.140 He's not going to take it anymore.

00:18:38.400 So he's actually threatening legal action.

00:18:43.360 Purporting to be trying to get criminal authorities involved, potential civil actions against Fox, against the computer repair guy and others.

00:18:53.340 He's really pissed off at Marco Polo.

00:18:55.060 You ever use Marco Polo, that social media app?

00:18:57.520 My one friend, Joelle, loves it.

00:18:58.680 She's like, OK, send me a message on Marco Polo.

00:19:01.340 It's basically just you talking.

00:19:02.980 And then you send a video of yourself talking.

00:19:04.480 It's you could do the same thing on your iPhone messaging.

00:19:06.740 He's mad about Marco Polo because apparently they participated.

00:19:11.160 They posted laptop contents.

00:19:13.200 Anyway, I could go down the list.

00:19:14.160 But the point is, he's trying to look like a tough guy now.

00:19:16.960 And it's a total shift in strategy from what we've had the past three years.

00:19:22.640 What was what was the date of the New York Post posting the laptop disinformation?

00:19:26.860 Now it's now it's his suddenly, Jesse, and he's the victim.

00:19:29.760 It's starting to smell a little bit like a railroad out of politics job for Joe Biden to me.

00:19:37.180 And this is what I mean by it, Megan.

00:19:38.420 As soon as I saw that, that he was trying to bring up criminal charges on Tucker Carlson and all kinds of people like that,

00:19:44.140 I thought to myself, this reeks like actually desperation more than anything else.

00:19:49.080 Because think about how much work the federal government has done to cover for the Biden's.

00:19:54.000 This is something people forget about when we talk about Hunter and the laptop.

00:19:57.280 An important thing to understand is the Federal Bureau of Investigation had possession of the Hunter Biden laptop and knew what was on it in 2019.

00:20:07.160 Prior to the election, the Federal Bureau of Investigation knew that Hunter Biden was tied in with his father

00:20:12.800 and knew he had some shady, to put it mildly, ties with criminal, hostile criminal actors, foreign actors.

00:20:20.360 The FBI knew this and they chose to cover up all this information on behalf of the Biden family.

00:20:25.760 This is an FBI cover up. That's the story here.

00:20:28.440 So they cover it up. Then they intercept because they're spying on everybody involved.

00:20:35.000 They intercept the fact that the New York Post is getting ready to run with the story on their cover up.

00:20:41.100 Then they choose to go public with all of it.

00:20:43.780 And then the classified documents began to be found, except they're all being found right now by Democrats.

00:20:49.920 You notice that, Megan? It's not Republican operatives low crawling into Joe Biden's garage in Delaware and with with little pen lights in the middle of the night, finding which documents are classified like in the movies.

00:21:01.560 These are all Democrats. It's Biden's people. It's Biden's lawyers.

00:21:04.800 It's Biden's DOJ. It's Biden's FBI.

00:21:06.900 The same FBI that just covered for him. I say that they've run a cover up for the Biden family for so long and the Bidens thought they were going to get away with it for so long.

00:21:15.580 And now they're very clearly getting a controlled demolition on Joe Biden's time in office.

00:21:20.520 And I think this is just a desperate Hunter Biden that knows he's going to be the one that they're going to use to railroad Joe out of office.

00:21:28.240 How about that for a crazy conspiracy theory? But that's my theory.

00:21:30.740 Well, honestly, it's like Andy McCarthy had a piece that said, keep your eye on the ball.

00:21:36.220 Don't fall for this. Right. This is a sideshow.

00:21:39.660 The president's loser son. Actually, he said troubled and unstable. 1.00

00:21:43.240 He's not as mean as I am, is beside the point, except to the extent that his supposed business acumen was the pretext for all the money flows.

00:21:50.520 What we need to know is what what did the Chinese believe they were buying?

00:21:53.780 And so why now? Why is Hunter? This lawsuit has absolutely no chance. Zero chance.

00:22:02.920 The guy apparently signed a user agreement when he dropped off the laptop with the guy, the computer repair repairman, which everybody does, saying if you leave it here for too long a time, it's abandoned and I can do with it what I want.

00:22:13.260 Otherwise, everybody would be holding on to old laptops and old phones and old TVs that they couldn't repair forevermore.

00:22:18.520 They'd never be able to throw them away. So all electronics repair facilities and other facilities like this have agreements like that and the law will protect him.

00:22:27.560 So it was abandoned. And that's why the guy was able to access whatever he wanted on there.

00:22:32.540 And these arguments hunters making against that repairman and others are absolutely specious, meaning absurd to the point where they're absolutely not supported at all.

00:22:41.120 They're frivolous. So why do you do have to ask? Why is he doing this?

00:22:45.300 Why? And let me just set it up, Jesse, because just a walk quick walk down memory lane here.

00:22:50.600 He was interviewed during his book tour about the laptop after The New York Post and it tried to publish it.

00:22:57.260 We were all told, no, no, no, disinformation here.

00:22:59.580 He was when I think it was CBS tried to press him very gently on it.

00:23:04.260 Well, one, this is something I don't know.

00:23:06.620 I know, but you know that I really don't know.

00:23:08.720 OK, the answer is you don't know.

00:23:10.280 Yes or no. If the laptop, I don't have any idea.

00:23:12.780 I have no idea. So it could have been yours.

00:23:15.280 Of course, certainly. There could be a laptop out there that was stolen from me.

00:23:18.920 There could be that I was hacked.

00:23:20.340 It could be that that was the that it was Russian intelligence.

00:23:23.800 It could be that it was stolen from me.

00:23:26.420 I really don't know. And the fact of the matter is it's a red herring.

00:23:30.320 It is absolutely red herring.

00:23:31.800 But I am absolutely I think within my my rights to question anything that comes from the from the desk of Rudy Giuliani.

00:23:41.360 And so I don't know is the answer.

00:23:45.840 OK, great.

00:23:47.120 Are we going to get follow up?

00:23:48.200 We're going to get in-depth reporting from all those organizations on how outraged they were that they were lied to.

00:23:52.860 I don't think so.

00:23:54.820 Remember when the press was doing his their their lovey-dovey book tour thing on his behalf to Megan when he was going around doing all these videos and they were all talking about what I think it was CNN talked about.

00:24:04.900 What an inspirational story.

00:24:06.360 Brian Stelter, when he used to work at CNN, talking about how this is just a real inspirational story. 0.96

00:24:11.180 The Hunter Biden thing and how how the Trump people, those dirty Trump people keep lying about him. 0.75

00:24:16.140 And they always reference Rudy Giuliani.

00:24:17.920 They think that's somehow going to absolve Hunter of everything. 0.84

00:24:21.080 But can we pause for a brief moment on this on top of being a drug addict and a compulsive liar and everything else you can say about Hunter Biden? 0.78

00:24:28.360 I mean, the the brazen lies in those interviews. 0.57

00:24:30.860 I don't know if it was my laptop or not.

00:24:32.600 Come on.

00:24:33.880 Who records all of their crimes, Megan?

00:24:37.080 And now you're one of these smart legal people.

00:24:38.840 I find it to be the most bizarre thing because I do the best I can to stay on the right side of the law.

00:24:44.120 I probably flirted with the wrong side that time or two.

00:24:46.980 But you know what I didn't do?

00:24:48.760 Record every single one of them and then save it on a laptop and then drop off the laptop for repairs. 0.97

00:24:56.660 The first two steps were dumb enough.

00:24:58.840 But then having recorded every crime I've ever committed, allow me to take the evidence, drop it off at a laptop repair shop and then just cruise off as if everything's going to be fine. 0.92

00:25:10.100 There's something weird here, Megan.

00:25:12.360 Almost like he wants to get caught.

00:25:14.020 Does that make sense?

00:25:14.660 There's something something wrong with this guy beyond just what we can see.

00:25:18.540 Mm hmm.

00:25:19.060 I don't know.

00:25:19.880 It is starting to feel like is there a connection between all these classified documents being found at Joe Biden's houses that Hunter Biden had access to?

00:25:28.380 And now him making this movie, just like all of it is starting to feel a little too connected and a little too coincidental.

00:25:35.060 I'm starting to get like the spidey sense that we need to dig and we need to dig hard.

00:25:39.720 And what looked at first like a house hearing that was worthwhile, like we should probe.

00:25:45.300 But I was like now I'm starting to feel like it's absolutely imperative.

00:25:48.760 Actually, we really need to get to the but like Comer said that the head of the oversight committee said this is actually getting downright scary.

00:25:57.780 Yeah, well, look, let's go back to the Chinese spy satellite that we were just talking about, Megan.

00:26:02.780 What if I mean, that's Joe Biden's son.

00:26:05.060 I don't know about you, but for my sons, I would commit any number of crimes.

00:26:08.820 I just would. They're my sons. I love them to death.

00:26:11.620 What if the Chinese have extremely damaging information on Hunter Biden? 1.00

00:26:16.860 I'm not talking about just some booger sugar with some European hookers. 1.00

00:26:20.640 What if they have real, real, real black and white criminal crimes that they have evidence of? 0.99

00:26:25.740 What if the Russians do? What if the Ukrainians do? 0.77

00:26:28.540 How hard is it for them to get on the phone with Joe Biden and say, hey, we need you to look the other way on X, Y and Z,

00:26:34.520 or this information is going to be at NBC News tonight?

00:26:37.300 These are legitimate questions the American people have a right to know.

00:26:41.760 Is the president of the United States of America compromised by our enemies because of his son and his connections to his son?

00:26:49.240 That's not a small thing. It's a big thing.

00:26:52.120 Oh, my God. That's like that is a disturbing thought.

00:26:55.700 My team pulled this up. You were right. CNN's Reliable Sources. Remember that show?

00:27:00.660 Briefly pivoted from a show dedicated to bashing conservative media on Sunday to become an infomercial.

00:27:07.300 Not sure who I'm quoting. Otherwise, I would attribute this to become an infomercial for Hunter Biden's new memoir.

00:27:15.380 This is, I guess, Fox News as left wing host Brian Stelter gushed.

00:27:18.520 It was extraordinary and breathtaking.

00:27:22.000 Stelter teased the segment about Biden's new memoir.

00:27:24.960 Beautiful things. I forgot it was called that by claiming the real human being who differs from the caricature of the president's son would be revealed in the book.

00:27:34.900 Real, real human. Beautiful things. Extraordinary. Breathtaking.

00:27:40.820 Just the name alone. What a bunch of hippie crap all this stuff is. 1.00

00:27:44.620 It was really, really breathtaking for Brian Stelter. 0.99

00:27:47.160 And again, this is why I think this is this whole lawsuit stuff is just desperation.

00:27:52.340 This is clearly a human being. I mean, we look at him like a kid.

00:27:54.940 At least I do. I feel like he's a kid because he probably screws up so much.

00:27:58.660 He's in his 50s, Megan. This guy's a grandpa, I think, or at least could be at this point in time.

00:28:03.940 So they've covered for him his entire life, his entire life.

00:28:08.260 He's used to daddy and daddy's media covering for him.

00:28:11.940 I bet it is quite a culture shock for him to all of a sudden find out he is in real legal trouble.

00:28:16.800 He doesn't pay his taxes. He's done all these criminal things before.

00:28:20.020 And they want his dad. I believe they want his dad out of office.

00:28:23.140 I bet he is a little taken aback by the fact it's even possible for him to get in any legal trouble at all.

00:28:29.540 I should attribute that story about the assistant to the Daily Mail that was there.

00:28:33.420 I think exclusive reporting on it. Absolutely disgusting.

00:28:36.320 And at the time for all of this with the assistant and so on, he was, of course, addicted to crack.

00:28:42.220 And the New York Post reminds us had unrestricted access to his father's Wilmington, Delaware home where classified documents were improperly stored.

00:28:52.000 Oh, joy. All right. Let me let me pause there and just marinate on that during the commercial break.

00:28:57.220 And we'll be back in two minutes with Jesse Kelly, who stays with us.

00:29:04.920 OK, so, Jesse, drama over at CNN, the New York Post with quite an exclusive on.

00:29:11.520 First of all, the morning show over there, you're going to be shocked, shocked to learn is in.

00:29:16.000 In I mean, basement dweller territory when it comes to the ratings.

00:29:20.460 It's an absolute failure.

00:29:22.720 CNN this morning is from earlier reporting suffered its lowest week.

00:29:26.680 I think this is as of through January 22nd.

00:29:29.900 Its lowest week since launch, which was only three months ago.

00:29:34.900 They averaged three hundred and thirty one thousand viewers.

00:29:38.420 Just for reference, Fox and Friends had nearly a million.

00:29:41.200 Even Morning Joe is up to seven hundred and sixty thousand, which is good for that show.

00:29:46.040 They're down at three hundred and thirty one thousand viewers on that show.

00:29:49.760 No one's watching.

00:29:50.820 Well, that can really that can really upset the anchors, apparently, because behind the scenes, it's not going much better.

00:29:58.500 According to the New York Post and an exclusive report, Don Lemon screamed at his co-host, Caitlin Collins.

00:30:06.420 According to two sources with knowledge, says the New York Post, Lemon approached Collins following the show's Thursday, December 8th broadcast and unloaded on her in front of staffers as he accused her of interrupting him on air. 0.96

00:30:21.000 Quote, Don screamed at Caitlin, who was visibly upset and ran out of the studio.

00:30:26.620 And it was over reportedly this incident here.

00:30:31.180 We've gone back and pulled the exchange between the two of them that we believe this was based on from that day of air.

00:30:38.500 Watch this.

00:30:40.460 I think you're told that we're standing by for the president of the United States.

00:30:44.320 It's been 10 months since she's been held in captivity.

00:30:47.460 Eight thirty this morning.

00:30:49.120 I expected to speak at the White House at any moment now.

00:30:52.280 And he was brief.

00:30:53.240 Stand by one second.

00:30:53.920 No, I think we should bring in Jonathan Franks.

00:30:59.940 OK, so there was some interrupting.

00:31:01.880 It happens when you co-host a show.

00:31:03.360 It happens.

00:31:04.320 I co-hosted a show with Bill Helmer for three years.

00:31:06.440 I was on the air with Brett Baer more times than I can count.

00:31:09.100 And sometimes somebody gets on your nerves.

00:31:11.340 What you don't do is scream at them after the fact.

00:31:14.720 Later you say, oh, we stepped on each other.

00:31:16.100 Oh, it's all about servicing the audience. 0.94

00:31:18.300 If you're a professional, if you're a douchebag, you scream at the woman next to you and blame it on her.

00:31:23.920 Yeah, I generally try to avoid screaming at the various people who work for me around the studio here, Megan. 0.94

00:31:29.620 I find it as an adult, it works better if you don't scream at people like they're children.

00:31:33.840 But here's your co-host.

00:31:36.000 You're supposed to have a good rapport with on the air.

00:31:39.420 Don Lemon doesn't have the talents to continue to bring baggage.

00:31:43.680 The rule number one of employment always is make sure your talent outweighs your baggage because we all have baggage, right?

00:31:49.020 Everyone has something.

00:31:50.220 But Don Lemon is not an interesting person. 0.93

00:31:52.680 People forget when Don Lemon had his own nighttime show on CNN, it sucked.

00:31:57.340 And it sucked so bad for so long, they eventually brought in Cuomo, who was doing the show beforehand, to do Don Lemon's A Block.

00:32:05.320 Now, let me explain this to people.

00:32:07.060 When you do TV, A Block is the opening of your show.

00:32:10.260 It goes A, B, C, D.

00:32:11.200 Now, you can do the math from there.

00:32:12.820 A Block is also the most important block because it is the most watched block on your show.

00:32:16.780 So Don Lemon sucked so bad that he was unable to carry the A Block, the most important block of his own show.

00:32:24.040 They had to keep the previous host there to carry the A Block with him. 0.74

00:32:28.200 Then he gets kicked down to morning time.

00:32:30.980 Now he already got a demotion, and everyone knows it was a demotion. 0.98

00:32:34.680 He's only still around because he's a black gay dude, and everybody knows it. 0.98

00:32:39.300 This is not an interesting person. 0.97

00:32:40.840 He doesn't have anything at all funny or informative to say whatsoever.

00:32:46.020 He's already been demoted, already, frankly, been demoted twice when you consider the Cuomo thing.

00:32:51.240 And now he's chewing out Stafford's Don.

00:32:53.860 Buddy, unless you want to go down to the mail room, which, frankly, is where you belong, I would make sure I'm minding my P's and Q's if I couldn't do TV and yet somebody gave me a television show.

00:33:05.000 It's so true. 0.84

00:33:06.000 He better be careful because, honestly, that shows on its last legs before it even got on its first legs.

00:33:10.880 And I will say Caitlin Collins is a competent reporter.

00:33:13.960 She's she's somebody.

00:33:15.000 I wonder whether the politics have anything to do with it.

00:33:17.120 But she is.

00:33:17.820 If I'm not mistaken, she she was an intern for Hannity at one point.

00:33:20.720 She started off, I think, at Fox.

00:33:22.700 So, listen, I don't think she's a right winger at all, but I think she's probably more balanced than Don Lemon certainly is.

00:33:28.120 I mean, you'd have to be and you can sense the tension and they don't have a good rapport at all.

00:33:33.320 And I don't think CNN is interested in getting rid of her. 0.99

00:33:35.760 So here's the thing, though.

00:33:37.500 Again, I've co-hosted more hours than I can count with a lot of guys with big egos, appropriately big egos.

00:33:45.220 And never, never has have I screamed at a colleague after like a co-host or had him scream at me.

00:33:52.180 We've had charged disagreements, had a charged disagreement with Chris Wallace one time.

00:33:56.820 We're never screaming at each other.

00:33:58.160 And you pick it up right after.

00:33:59.760 If somebody ever screamed at me to the point where I was visibly upset and ran out of the studio, I would have that person fired.

00:34:06.340 I would make sure that person was fired.

00:34:07.900 And I'll tell you something.

00:34:08.800 If that is true, the New York Post report, Jesse, then I will say that's not the first time he's done it.

00:34:15.000 I will go out on a limb right now and tell you that's not the first time there will be another woman.

00:34:19.260 If the New York Post digs who he's co-anchored with, I guarantee you who's going to come out and say me, too,

00:34:26.040 because if you behave like that toward a colleague with whom you share the air and you share the show, this will not be the first time.

00:34:33.700 So I do wonder.

00:34:35.020 Oh, a thousand percent.

00:34:36.360 You just nailed it.

00:34:37.740 If you are the type of person who views that as being an option to treat a co-worker in that way, like that, you just think that that's something that that you can do.

00:34:45.920 Then you've done it before and you've gotten away with it before.

00:34:48.560 And this is the problem.

00:34:49.780 CNN has let him get away with it before, because there are going to be more.

00:34:53.040 I guarantee there'll be more.

00:34:54.300 And CNN will have to start admitting, well, we did have this person file a report a couple of years ago.

00:34:59.980 We just chose not to do anything.

00:35:01.580 It'll all come rolling out now that they've been.

00:35:03.920 Again, I don't understand why they've been coddling this guy.

00:35:06.780 There are plenty of people out there, plenty of there's so much talent out there, television wise, from local to otherwise.

00:35:13.060 Why are you hanging on to Don Lemon? 0.99

00:35:14.940 He sucks. 1.00

00:35:15.440 Yes. 1.00

00:35:16.100 And honestly, there's a lot of great people who are black and great people who are gay.

00:35:20.380 Like, you don't because Don Lemon did say I'm black and I'm gay as as Jeff Zucker was on his way out.

00:35:25.860 I mean, he actually reminded us of that on the air to keep his job.

00:35:29.780 So even if they're trying to check an identity box, you can do it with some very talented people not named Don Lemon.

00:35:35.460 But that's an interesting question you just raised, because it could potentially have been documented.

00:35:41.140 HR could potentially have a record.

00:35:42.520 I wonder whether this went to HR.

00:35:43.880 You know, if this if his name were Tucker Carlson, they'd be digging through those files right now.

00:35:50.340 Right.

00:35:50.640 Like, does CNN have any desire to do that?

00:35:52.860 Will will there be follow up?

00:35:55.100 Is he that untouchable that we you know, whatever he does is no problem.

00:35:59.800 Here's what CNN is saying.

00:36:02.020 Doesn't certainly sound like they're getting ready to look into his history or ask any more questions.

00:36:06.840 They say to Mediaite, which posted the story and asked for a follow up.

00:36:11.060 The Post's account is why wildly overblown and two months old.

00:36:16.120 Well, that's a deflection.

00:36:16.980 We know it's two months old.

00:36:18.020 The original report by the Post said it happened December 8th.

00:36:20.520 Don, Caitlin and Poppy, that's the third co-host, were friends before they were co-anchors and they remain friends today.

00:36:27.440 Again, that's a dodge.

00:36:28.400 What does that mean?

00:36:29.720 Did he do it or didn't he?

00:36:31.260 Did he scream at her to the point where she ran down the hall visibly upset or didn't she in front of staffers?

00:36:35.000 And then Mediaite goes on, despite CNN formally pushing back, Mediaite can confirm that the events described by the Post are largely true, though Lemon's alleged screaming is being overplayed.

00:36:46.520 OK, so let's let's see.

00:36:48.760 Let's find out, because right now we're being told that Chris Licht, who is now who's now running the joint, was reportedly appalled by his behavior, appalled by his behavior.

00:37:00.640 And that actually told him to take the next day off to cool off.

00:37:04.280 Hmm.

00:37:05.080 They say the Post at this point, Caitlin Collins wants to be on set with Don as little as possible.

00:37:09.860 So that conflicts with CNN statement that they're still friends.

00:37:14.360 And that's that's basically where it stands.

00:37:16.440 I don't know, Jesse.

00:37:17.020 I feel like these are the same people who, you know, Don Lemon's out there every every night when he was on his primetime show lecturing us about how we need to be better people.

00:37:24.720 Everybody's a racist. 1.00

00:37:25.980 If you voted for Trump, you're a terrible racist, white supremacist. 1.00

00:37:28.840 And this is how he's treating people. 1.00

00:37:30.740 OK, says something.

00:37:32.280 A lot of this, a lot of this stuff.

00:37:34.500 Sorry for interrupting, Megan.

00:37:35.660 Don't scream at me.

00:37:36.280 A lot of this stuff comes back to Trump.

00:37:38.780 I believe I've always believed this, that he created a media bubble, that a lot of these cable news channels were kind of getting stale and dying as people are cutting the cord and they're finding different ways to consume news.

00:37:51.860 And that Trump came along and Trump was, love him or hate him, so interesting that he brought eyeballs no matter what.

00:37:58.580 So if you're a dork like Don Lemon and you don't have any talent, you can still go sit down on CNN and talk about Donald Trump for an hour and get ratings because Trump is interesting.

00:38:06.920 So he brings the interesting. 0.94

00:38:08.500 And then the second Trump is gone, he's not president anymore.

00:38:11.420 Well, you're still stuck there not being interesting and you can't talk about Trump every single night.

00:38:16.280 And I think this has plagued a lot more than CNN and Don Lemon.

00:38:18.900 And I think it's killed a lot of them.

00:38:20.320 You spent four years not getting better, not getting better personally, not getting better as a network, not bringing in new talent, not cultivating people who actually have something to say.

00:38:29.260 You spent four years just screaming Trump, Trump, Trump for an hour every single night.

00:38:33.380 And it brought you ratings and you fooled yourself into thinking you have talent.

00:38:37.280 You don't have talent.

00:38:38.180 Trump's interesting.

00:38:39.000 Now he's gone.

00:38:39.680 Now you're boring.

00:38:40.720 Yeah, you're right.

00:38:41.940 You know, it's interesting about Don Lemon because I used to I used to know Lemon and actually we used to be kind of friendly.

00:38:46.060 And Trump broke him in the same way he broke CNN and he broke Jeff Zucker and he broke so many broadcasters in particular. 0.97

00:38:54.260 He broke him in to the point where like Lemon used to be more sort of I don't know, like I remember him once quoting with favor the Bill Cosby message of like, pull up your damn pants, you know, like, come on, like be upstanding, treat family well and all that stuff. 0.66

00:39:09.960 Now, of course, we realize that that messenger had problems back then to Bill, Bill Cosby. 0.95

00:39:14.180 But then he got wokeified, started casting his judgment on everybody.

00:39:17.920 He was totally on board the woke racism train, no matter what the story was, and became just derisive of half the country.

00:39:26.100 You remember that sneering clip with him, with the guy from Lincoln Project?

00:39:32.300 Oh, God, it was I think I can't remember the two guys names.

00:39:35.720 Wajahat. 0.95

00:39:36.240 Rick Wilson, I think Ali and Rick Wilson Wilson and the three of them like, oh, I can't even spell your crane, you know, are you crane?

00:39:44.820 They were doing their middle whatever.

00:39:47.240 It was so pejorative and dismissive of half the country.

00:39:51.680 Anybody who supported Trump and then he went on to say if you voted for Trump on his show, backed it up on his show that you're you're a racist if you voted for him.

00:40:00.340 Well, you mentioned a great word dismissive of half the country.

00:40:04.900 We talked a little bit earlier tonight, actually, about how they all they're all in L.A.

00:40:10.580 They're all in New York.

00:40:11.420 They're all in their own little extremely blue areas. 0.93

00:40:14.000 And that's why they're making crappy movies and crappy cable shows.

00:40:17.280 And they don't ever speak to normal people.

00:40:19.660 Well, it comes back to them being dismissive of normal people.

00:40:23.580 People people will get confused, especially people on the right of I don't understand why they why don't they want to appeal to me?

00:40:29.300 Why don't why isn't why aren't they just staying neutral?

00:40:31.780 Why not try to appeal to me?

00:40:33.500 They despise you.

00:40:35.040 These people are dismissive of you.

00:40:37.020 They despise you.

00:40:38.360 They do.

00:40:38.800 They do mock you.

00:40:40.100 And you didn't go to you didn't go to Wharton School of Business.

00:40:43.100 You didn't go to NYU. 1.00

00:40:44.420 You're just some stupid ruble. 1.00

00:40:46.380 All you know how to do is farm. 1.00

00:40:48.040 You probably can't even spell it.

00:40:49.960 That is how these people view you.

00:40:51.580 They're not trying to appeal to you.

00:40:53.320 They would never try to appeal to you the same way.

00:40:55.460 You wouldn't try to walk out and reason with the slug crawling across the sidewalk.

00:41:00.140 That's how these people look at you.

00:41:01.700 They would never come try to speak to you, speak to your values, represent you in any way.

00:41:07.060 They look at you as simply beneath them.

00:41:09.340 And that's people feel that now.

00:41:11.040 Half the country feels that it's not hard, Megan.

00:41:13.060 I know you see it when you turn on the TV to feel to feel spoken down to.

00:41:17.800 No, I don't want my child to wear a mask on a plane. 1.00

00:41:21.000 I think this mask is stupid. 1.00

00:41:22.680 The way they speak to you like you're some stupid, idiot, anti-science murderer at all 1.00

00:41:27.820 times. 1.00

00:41:28.780 The country feels it.

00:41:30.000 It's ugly.

00:41:31.180 Their rage toward you, you know, anybody who disagrees with them or isn't woke is real.

00:41:36.280 But their outrage so often seems performative.

00:41:39.740 You know, like, is he really that upset about this, that or the other?

00:41:43.720 And he's trying to juice up his ratings.

00:41:45.620 And that leads me to Ilhan Omar and what happened with her and AOC on the House floor yesterday.

00:41:52.500 I'm sure you've seen this.

00:41:53.960 So Republicans got booted off of the January 6th committee.

00:41:57.120 They couldn't have who they wanted there.

00:41:58.800 And now they're turning it around and they booted.

00:42:03.020 Well, Schiff got kicked off of Intel and and Ilhan Omar just got kicked off of foreign affairs

00:42:09.600 with a Republican saying she's an anti-Semite or she certainly at least made a lot of anti-Semitic

00:42:14.360 comments.

00:42:15.060 So bye.

00:42:16.520 Well, of course, underdog AOC rushes to the rescue in.

00:42:22.560 I mean, this is the worst bit of acting I've seen in a long time.

00:42:26.120 It could be give like what was it, Ishmael that everybody used to say was the worst movie

00:42:29.560 ever made.

00:42:30.200 This is a Ishmael territory. 0.99

00:42:31.780 Here's AOC on this on the the the House floor yesterday trying to act like I don't you tell

00:42:36.900 me who she's trying to imitate here.

00:42:38.140 Watch.

00:42:38.360 So one of the disgusting legacies after 9-11 has been the targeting and racism against 0.89

00:42:45.320 Muslim Americans throughout the United States of America.

00:42:48.040 And this is an extension of that legacy.

00:42:50.000 There is nothing consistent with the Republican Party's continued attack except for the racism

00:42:55.360 and incitement of violence against women of color in this body. 0.94

00:42:59.020 This is about targeting women of color in the United States of America. 0.52

00:43:03.380 OK, we cut the part where she threw her notebook at the end and she really sort of revs up

00:43:09.160 her like preacher accent, you know, like and then this country, whatever. 0.68

00:43:13.820 OK, you're from Yorktown Heights, which is a lovely suburb in Westchester.

00:43:19.480 Should just stop.

00:43:20.600 But what do you make of underdog in to save the day?

00:43:23.800 I think the worst mistake she made there actually wasn't the hand motions.

00:43:27.520 The worst mistake she made was the looking down at the speech that she had clearly written

00:43:32.180 in practice beforehand.

00:43:33.980 If you're going to do the moral outrage thing, this is about women of color, then it really 1.00

00:43:38.440 helps if you don't have to go.

00:43:39.940 This is about women of color.

00:43:42.700 It doesn't come off nearly as genuine.

00:43:45.360 But it's true.

00:43:46.880 They do this very, very well.

00:43:48.620 The left in this country, they've really mastered something.

00:43:52.680 And the right, frankly, is so far behind that they don't realize what they're doing.

00:43:56.260 The toddler that pitches the fit in the grocery store because mom will buy him ice cream sandwiches

00:44:01.920 and he lays down and starts screaming and yelling.

00:44:05.220 You pick that child.

00:44:06.760 You either ignore that child and leave him there screaming and yelling. 0.97

00:44:09.380 You pick him up and whack him on the rear end or you do something.

00:44:12.380 But what you don't do is you don't give him the ice cream sandwiches to calm him down.

00:44:16.940 But the right has been handing out ice cream sandwiches for so long to these people.

00:44:21.100 They've learned there's actually as clownish as that looks, you're rolling your eyes, I'm

00:44:25.500 rolling my eyes, everyone's rolling their eyes. 0.57

00:44:27.000 As clownish as that looks, that has worked for the left for a long time. 0.91

00:44:30.580 Just start pounding the table and screaming and yelling. 0.98

00:44:32.980 And of course, you got to throw in racist and misogynistic or whatever word, throw them

00:44:37.900 all in, whatever, make a bunch of noise.

00:44:40.160 And that has scared Republicans into giving the left things for a very long time. 0.95

00:44:45.580 When I see clowns like that and clownish behavior like that, I actually blame the right 0.86

00:44:49.920 because you're the one that's rewarded that. 0.91

00:44:51.440 Of course, the toddler is still in the grocery aisle screaming.

00:44:53.880 You rewrote it in the last 10 times.

00:44:55.840 Start ignoring him.

00:44:56.680 It'll stop screaming.

00:44:58.240 What do you make of this kicking Ilhan Omar off of foreign affairs because of her anti-Semitic 0.89

00:45:02.820 comments?

00:45:04.120 Well, I support the move.

00:45:05.140 I just don't like the way it was done.

00:45:06.820 I think it was done completely wrong.

00:45:08.840 The right move to do was to kick her off the committee.

00:45:11.620 The wrong move to do was to act like it's because of some comments she made or because she's

00:45:16.280 an anti-Semite or something like that.

00:45:18.060 I'm sure she is an anti-Semite. 1.00

00:45:19.440 She hates Israel. 0.97

00:45:20.260 Of course, I get that.

00:45:21.780 But that's not why she was kicked off.

00:45:23.500 She was kicked off for revenge. 1.00

00:45:25.000 She was kicked off for retribution because they did it to us.

00:45:28.220 I don't like this mealy mouth way of politics where you have to pretend like it was for

00:45:32.340 a different reason.

00:45:33.680 Hey, we kicked Ilhan Omar off.

00:45:35.620 Why?

00:45:36.200 Because you kicked our people off.

00:45:38.020 Let this be a lesson to you.

00:45:39.260 If you kick our people off again, we'll kick your people off again. 0.87

00:45:42.540 If you'd like this game to stop, then stop doing it and we'll stop it.

00:45:46.460 This was about revenge and retribution.

00:45:48.180 I think it looks weak when you kick her off for revenge and then make up some excuse.

00:45:52.780 Well, we had to be nice to Israel.

00:45:54.360 That's not why you kicked her off.

00:45:55.520 So be honest about it.

00:45:57.160 That's a good point.

00:45:58.100 What do they get?

00:45:58.580 Schiff and Swalwell off of Intel?

00:46:01.220 Which I mean, of course that should have happened.

00:46:02.960 I mean, how Swalwell was still on.

00:46:05.100 I try never to even talk about him.

00:46:06.860 He's just like one of the most abhorrent people in Congress in any event.

00:46:11.020 So now they've what they kicked off, I think, two from January 6th.

00:46:14.140 Now that Republicans have three.

00:46:15.660 So maybe it ends there and they make their point.

00:46:18.620 If it continues on forever.

00:46:19.660 I mean, Congress has changed fundamentally.

00:46:22.780 And I don't know whether that's a good thing or not.

00:46:25.380 Jesse Kelly, you're a good thing.

00:46:27.460 Such a pleasure to talk to you.

00:46:28.820 Thank you, my friend.

00:46:29.500 And have a great weekend.

00:46:30.800 Thank you for having me on, Megan.

00:46:32.280 Enjoy your week.

00:46:32.880 I'll talk to you soon.

00:46:33.880 All the best.

00:46:35.060 And I should mention that Jesse and The First are now taking over the new Newsmax slot.

00:46:41.640 You know, Newsmax went away.

00:46:42.680 They didn't struck a deal with DirecTV.

00:46:44.320 The First is going on there.

00:46:45.660 So you may be sad about your Newsmax friends, but The First has people like Jesse Kelly, Dana

00:46:50.620 Lash, a lot of our friends.

00:46:52.180 So you'll love that.

00:46:54.040 Feels like, again, like friends fighting.

00:46:55.980 Not them.

00:46:56.540 Not Newsmax and The First, but.

00:46:58.760 In any event, happy for Jesse in The First.

00:47:00.840 Up next, the latest on the Alex Murdoch trial.

00:47:05.160 My God, the defense made a terrible mistake yesterday.

00:47:10.740 We'll explain what it was and how they may have just cost their client any chance at an

00:47:15.660 acquittal and go from there.

00:47:17.780 And remember, folks, you can find The Megan Kelly Show live on Sirius XM Triumph Channel

00:47:22.260 111 every weekday at noon east and the full video show and clips by subscribing to our YouTube

00:47:26.940 channel, YouTube dot com slash Megan Kelly.

00:47:29.540 If you prefer an audio podcast, you can follow and download and download Apple, Spotify, Pandora,

00:47:34.120 Stitcher, wherever you get your podcasts.

00:47:35.680 And don't forget to go subscribe to our American News Minute.

00:47:40.020 That's our once a week.

00:47:41.220 It's just a once a week email from me with the highlights that you may have missed from

00:47:45.880 our show during the week and update on Strudwick.

00:47:48.280 You're not going to be happy.

00:47:49.820 You're not going to.

00:47:50.380 You're going to feel for me.

00:47:51.420 You're going to be happy for me or for Abby.

00:47:53.460 Go check it out.

00:47:54.180 Megan Kelly dot com to sign up. 0.73

00:47:58.580 New developments in the Alex Murdoch murder trial underway right now.

00:48:02.820 The court is now considering whether or not Murdoch's alleged financial crimes can be heard

00:48:07.720 by the jury.

00:48:09.600 Oh, my gosh.

00:48:10.240 The proffer of what they would hear was quite juicy.

00:48:13.720 Joining us now on the ground in South Carolina, Vinnie Politan.

00:48:17.580 He's of Court TV and also a public defender out of Florida.

00:48:21.580 Steve Gosney joins us as well.

00:48:23.260 So, Vinnie, Steve, thank you both for being here.

00:48:25.760 Vinnie, you're there.

00:48:26.600 You're covering the trial for Court TV.

00:48:28.920 What did what happened today?

00:48:30.060 Where is it right now as we as we meet with you?

00:48:32.760 Well, I'll tell you what happened this morning is the continued proffer of all this information

00:48:37.440 they want to get in front of the jury and really want to demonstrate that there was some

00:48:43.060 motive, some reason why this father would splatter his son's brains in the in the dog kennel and

00:48:51.720 then hunt down his wife with an AR rifle.

00:48:54.020 So they're trying to get into what's happening in his whole world in his life that is sort

00:48:59.160 of crumbling, unraveling around him, specifically the financials.

00:49:04.040 He was siphoning money from the law firm.

00:49:07.720 He was making money, not not giving it to to his partners and to the law firms.

00:49:12.700 That's happening.

00:49:13.600 He's being sued because of his son's boating accident.

00:49:17.140 And that lawsuit could uncover more of his financial misdeeds, which are are many.

00:49:23.300 And it really involves a lot of ripping off of his own clients.

00:49:28.940 They're saying nine million dollars worth of fraud and stealing.

00:49:33.880 It's really unthinkable what he did for all these years as a lawyer.

00:49:38.720 My God, nine.

00:49:40.540 I thought it was like seven hundred thousand and change and nine millions a lot.

00:49:44.660 So wait a minute.

00:49:45.600 Just and just I should have done this at the start.

00:49:47.940 I just assumed people are familiar with this case and I shouldn't do that because not everybody's

00:49:51.400 been following it.

00:49:52.400 But this guy, Alex Murdoch, is from a very famous family of very accomplished lawyers

00:49:57.300 down in South Carolina.

00:49:58.580 He really wasn't one of them, but got a job at a law firm and practicing law and had the family

00:50:05.140 dough in the family name.

00:50:06.880 And then his son, 19 year old Paul, had a boating accident where Paul was allegedly drunk,

00:50:11.520 driving recklessly.

00:50:12.460 And a girl, Mallory Beach, was killed.

00:50:15.780 She was thrown from the boat and killed, leading to a bunch of criminal, potential criminal

00:50:19.560 and civil cases.

00:50:20.900 Trouble, I should say, for the son and the Murdoch family.

00:50:24.880 Fast forward a couple of years and Paul winds up shot in the head, dead, along with Paul's

00:50:29.120 mother, Maggie, Alex's wife.

00:50:31.160 And Alex is accused of doing it.

00:50:33.380 And one of the alleged motives is that he was stressed out.

00:50:37.260 He was facing the lawsuits.

00:50:38.480 And the day of the double murder, he was accused by his own law firm of embezzlement.

00:50:43.580 So, Steve, this this was a colossal blunder by the defense, because before yesterday, correct

00:50:53.140 me if I'm wrong, we weren't going to hear any evidence of motive.

00:50:58.840 The state's real theory is that he did this to make himself look sympathetic.

00:51:04.540 In other words, he killed his family so that on this other financial stuff, people be like,

00:51:09.600 oh, poor Alex, you know, oh, you know, he couldn't have or let's leave him alone or what

00:51:12.980 have you.

00:51:13.940 We weren't supposed to hear any of this.

00:51:15.300 The reason we're hearing all this behind closed doors right now is because they opened

00:51:19.820 the door.

00:51:20.820 Explain.

00:51:22.120 Well, it may be that, you know, whether they've opened the door or not, the judge has not ruled

00:51:26.300 on that.

00:51:26.800 But yes, I'm the state definitely wants to get in this financial crime stuff because

00:51:30.900 it makes him look terrible.

00:51:32.900 I mean, the guy is obviously hated in the community and for good reason.

00:51:36.660 He's being shown by through his financial crimes as stealing from the sympathetic characters

00:51:42.240 and just everybody around him closely.

00:51:45.000 The problem from the defense side is that that is not necessarily motive for murder, nor

00:51:51.280 is it does it prove that he committed the murder.

00:51:53.980 And in fact, what it actually does is it widens the field of people that could be likely assassins

00:51:59.840 on his son and wife.

00:52:01.780 So so it's interesting.

00:52:03.720 They haven't quite ruled.

00:52:04.800 But yes, you're right.

00:52:05.780 There was a an argument by the state that the defense opened the door by asking a deadly

00:52:11.940 question, which is, is there any reason at all that he would kill his wife?

00:52:17.320 And of course, as as Vincent said here, you know, exactly.

00:52:23.280 I mean, did you?

00:52:24.180 Well, yes, there's this financial stuff.

00:52:25.980 But I think that the people that I've been chatting to on the kind of the defense side

00:52:30.260 are like, well, what is the nexus between the financial crimes and the murder of his

00:52:35.040 son and wife?

00:52:36.380 This brutal murder.

00:52:37.440 It seems to it seems that it's out of character and not consistent with anything.

00:52:42.300 He can be a thief, but not a murderer.

00:52:44.560 Mm hmm.

00:52:46.620 Vinny, what do you make of that?

00:52:48.200 Because the judge, the reason we heard testimony from this financial person at the law firm who

00:52:52.920 uncovered the crime, the alleged crime, is the prosecution said they opened the door.

00:52:58.860 We're going to do character evidence now.

00:53:00.120 It's all in.

00:53:00.880 We love to do character evidence.

00:53:02.320 Thank you, Lord.

00:53:03.080 Love that fight.

00:53:03.960 So I put the lady and so the judge said outside the presence of the jury, let's hear from

00:53:07.440 the financial lady and let's hear about the crimes. 1.00

00:53:09.380 And that's what's been going on.

00:53:11.640 So what about that?

00:53:12.840 I mean, why does the prosecution not think tying it together, the financial crimes and

00:53:17.020 a double murder of one's own family?

00:53:19.280 Why do they not think that that's too difficult to tie together?

00:53:24.500 Well, the defense is saying they're not connected.

00:53:27.460 There's, you know, this is just bad character.

00:53:29.820 It prejudices him and it makes him makes the jury perhaps look at him.

00:53:34.540 As a criminal rather than as a father and a husband.

00:53:38.960 But it's about the timing.

00:53:40.900 And I think this is where the prosecution's argument will go.

00:53:44.160 It's a day of reckoning.

00:53:45.840 It's June 7th, 2021.

00:53:48.080 And on that day, he is confronted by the bookkeeper at his law firm about this $700,000 from this

00:53:56.640 big, big case that they won.

00:54:00.020 Him and a couple other law firms were in on it.

00:54:02.140 And he had his best friend, OK, his best friend, who's one of the other lawyers in this, write

00:54:08.880 the check personally to him because he made up this story about putting it into some sort

00:54:14.420 of an annuity.

00:54:15.400 And his friend, no, didn't think twice about it because he knew Alec was super rich.

00:54:19.460 He's a partner in the firm.

00:54:20.640 I'm so sure I'll do it.

00:54:22.580 But that whole thing sort of hits the fan when the accountant starts to look at the books

00:54:26.980 and say, wait a minute, we got the expenses.

00:54:28.900 But where are the fees?

00:54:30.280 Where's the $700,000?

00:54:31.440 And so his friend testified against him, again, outside the presence of the jury, could be

00:54:38.820 the best witness in the whole case because he was literally crying on the stand because

00:54:44.940 his best friend had done him wrong.

00:54:48.580 His best friend, for money, for money, had, you know, done this to his body.

00:54:57.140 And it could ruin his friend's law practice.

00:54:59.780 It could ruin his reputation.

00:55:01.500 It could ruin his life.

00:55:03.020 He stole like $192,000 from his friend.

00:55:06.640 So you put all that together, it was really powerful.

00:55:11.100 And if the jury gets to hear it, I think they'll look at Alec Murdoch a little differently.

00:55:15.420 And I think they'll look at June 7th much differently as well, which is what the prosecution

00:55:20.460 wants them to do.

00:55:22.300 Just a quick question, Vinny.

00:55:23.420 What was the status of the lawsuits connected to the boat accident at the time of the double

00:55:29.700 murders?

00:55:30.320 What kind of pressure was Alec Murdoch facing at that moment?

00:55:34.380 Well, the pressure, and this goes to the next level.

00:55:37.800 This is why it's a slippery slope when you start getting into this evidence.

00:55:40.980 Um, the, the following week, a few days later, there was going to be an accounting.

00:55:46.460 So they were going to go through Alec Murdoch's financials.

00:55:49.840 And what the prosecution is saying is he was deadly scared of that because this would reveal

00:55:54.220 all that was going on.

00:55:56.660 The fact that he, you know, he's collecting settlements for clients and not paying the

00:56:02.460 clients.

00:56:02.980 The clients already have the money.

00:56:04.480 All of this would have been revealed.

00:56:05.780 What you're saying is that in connection with a civil lawsuit that had been filed against,

00:56:09.840 against Alex Murdoch, not just the son, uh, Paul, they went after Alec, they went after

00:56:16.920 the son, they went after the brother, they went after everyone.

00:56:19.700 Okay.

00:56:19.960 So he's facing exposure on that too.

00:56:21.760 Presumably he owned the boat and you would be exposed in the same way as if your teenager

00:56:25.520 wrecked.

00:56:25.740 But it wasn't just the exposure to how much money he could lose in the lawsuit.

00:56:28.940 It's that the lawyers through the discovery process would go through his financials and

00:56:34.680 then they would uncover all of his criminal fraudulent conduct through the years as they're

00:56:41.040 going through his books.

00:56:42.700 And that's what prosecutors say he was afraid of.

00:56:45.420 My God.

00:56:46.320 It's like the, what, what a tangled web.

00:56:48.380 Go ahead, Steve.

00:56:49.480 Well, I'm, I'm just saying, looking at it from a little bit more of a defense side,

00:56:53.620 the problem is, is that he had been stealing from everybody basically for 10 years and

00:56:59.900 was a good old boy and could talk his way out of anything.

00:57:02.960 Um, I know that the state wants to bring this in because it makes him look so bad.

00:57:06.580 So I, I completely understand that, but it looks to me, this, this crisis on that day

00:57:12.060 type of argument seems to me to be backing the truck up.

00:57:15.420 Right.

00:57:15.860 So it's like, okay, we want to get this in.

00:57:17.840 So how do we justify that?

00:57:19.580 Well, let's come up with this crazy motive.

00:57:21.540 Um, and that's why I, I'm not convinced that there is a connection or a nexus between the,

00:57:27.920 the thefts and this, this peak of action.

00:57:31.140 Now, of course the state isn't done yet.

00:57:32.900 So we haven't, we can't prejudge it.

00:57:35.320 Steve, let me ask you this, Steve.

00:57:36.680 If, if the son dies, does the civil case go away?

00:57:39.900 I mean, as a practical matter, he was the driver of the boat.

00:57:42.500 He's, you know, no, it does not because it passes to his estate and he was being sued.

00:57:46.680 That doesn't change anything.

00:57:47.940 So what he's doing though, he's, he's buying time.

00:57:50.380 It's a diversion, right?

00:57:51.540 So on June 7th, all of a sudden, all eyes in his law firm are on him as what are you

00:57:57.980 doing with this money?

00:57:59.440 Where's the money, Alec?

00:58:00.520 And then that night, boom, all of a sudden, everything turns around.

00:58:03.960 Nobody's talking about the money.

00:58:05.700 We don't talk about money.

00:58:06.740 We're talking about Alec and the fact that his family's now being targeted.

00:58:10.600 And they, they were probably afraid that Alec was a target as well.

00:58:14.340 Then the next day of reckoning, you go flash forward to September and he is, he's, he's getting

00:58:21.740 fired now from his law firm.

00:58:23.300 All this stuff is coming out.

00:58:24.560 And then all of a sudden there's another shooting, another 911 call from Alec, this time from the

00:58:30.480 side of the road.

00:58:31.580 I was on that road.

00:58:32.500 There's nothing there.

00:58:33.280 And he calls in that he was the victim of a shooting.

00:58:36.720 And apparently somehow he shot in the head, but it's like, okay to call 911 and survives

00:58:43.520 the whole thing.

00:58:44.340 And again, it's the timing.

00:58:45.680 It's right when, when the stuff is about to be revealed and all the focus will be on all

00:58:50.120 the bad things that he did.

00:58:51.260 He tries to turn himself into a victim.

00:58:53.860 Oh my God.

00:58:54.540 That sounds exactly right.

00:58:56.160 I buy that hook line and sinker.

00:58:58.720 I don't, I don't.

00:58:59.620 You tie it together with a fake attempt on Alec's life.

00:59:03.060 It makes perfect sense.

00:59:05.000 Why don't you buy it?

00:59:06.560 Well, because, um, it's, it's does not seem, I mean, I've dealt, I've done a lot of trials

00:59:11.880 and thousands and thousands of, uh, criminal cases and thieves are different than murderers.

00:59:18.080 And it's just out of character for the way he seems to present himself and to kill your

00:59:23.500 mother or your wife and your child in a vicious cold blooded way is quite, you know, and there

00:59:30.140 is an alternative theory of, um, of murder here.

00:59:33.100 There is an alternative theory that is not, I don't think been disproven by the evidence

00:59:37.500 so far presented.

00:59:38.660 And that is that there was somebody lying in wait for Paul out in this dog kennel.

00:59:43.560 And that during, after he got done, he went back to the house and this guy came out of

00:59:48.880 the woods with a shotgun, shot the, the son in the head, picked up the son's AR shot the

00:59:54.380 wife and then took off. 0.94

00:59:55.640 And in fact, there's, um, there's cell phone evidence, which we're still, we're still

00:59:59.440 parsing through it.

01:00:00.420 We haven't heard everything, but that may even be exculpatory to, um, Mr. Alex here.

01:00:06.640 So I don't know.

01:00:08.000 We haven't heard the whole case, but it's a quite a drama.

01:00:10.440 I mean, it is really, okay.

01:00:12.180 I like that.

01:00:12.800 I like having both sides, but Vinny, if Alex Murdoch is so innocent and it was really just

01:00:18.360 some intruder who came, who was there lying in wait for Paul, who was the one who drove

01:00:21.720 the boat.

01:00:22.740 Um, why did Alex Murdoch delete 73 calls off of his phone, which they never get deleted

01:00:28.560 off of your cell phone bill.

01:00:29.640 The cops found him 73.

01:00:31.580 Well, when was the last time you deleted 73 calls off of your phone, which they say he did

01:00:35.540 here and, and, and then get us into the video and what the two videos are showing.

01:00:40.540 Now, one, we heard, we heard allegedly Alex Murdoch there and the other one, we saw Alex

01:00:46.040 Murdoch right about an hour before us.

01:00:47.540 Talk about that.

01:00:48.940 Well, there's a couple of things going on here.

01:00:50.700 So Alec Murdoch in his first interview with police that that night, that night he is speaking

01:00:55.620 to police in the cruiser.

01:00:56.980 He's in the seats all on video.

01:00:58.420 It's recorded.

01:00:59.220 Um, he describes what he was doing that night and he said he was, um, you know, he came

01:01:04.240 home and then he took a nap and then he woke up from the nap in the, in the lodge, in the

01:01:09.600 main house, and then was going to visit his father, his mother, who was like 18 miles away.

01:01:15.700 And he just drove out and left and then went to his mother's, stayed there 15 minutes and

01:01:22.340 then drove another 18 minutes back and found the murder scene.

01:01:25.000 The problem is, is that there is a video on his son, Paul's phone that I'm sure he didn't

01:01:32.540 know about that was played for the jury.

01:01:34.940 He's, he's videotaping the dogs, but you hear three voices in the background.

01:01:39.380 You hear Paul Murdoch, you hear Maggie and you hear Alec, which puts him at the kennels

01:01:45.400 with the two victims moments before both of their phones cease all activity.

01:01:51.020 Standby.

01:01:51.620 Standby.

01:01:52.540 Standby because we have that.

01:01:53.800 Well, hold on, hold on, hold on.

01:01:54.700 Never said he was there.

01:01:55.620 Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, because we have that.

01:01:57.980 Can I just ask quickly, is it Alex or Alec?

01:02:01.580 Oh, here we go.

01:02:02.700 How many viewers are yelling at me saying it's not, it's not, it's not Alec, Vinny, it's

01:02:07.200 Alex.

01:02:07.760 Can't you read? 1.00

01:02:08.600 Fucking me. 1.00

01:02:09.280 Yeah, it's spelled like that, but he calls himself Alec. 1.00

01:02:12.520 His lawyer calls him Alec.

01:02:14.160 I'm sure his mama called him Alec.

01:02:15.940 So I'm going to call him Alec.

01:02:17.200 Okay, good to know.

01:02:18.020 Good to know.

01:02:18.380 I hadn't had it explained to me yet.

01:02:19.780 Here is that cell phone video to which Vinny Polantan just referred.

01:02:24.400 It's soundbite 13.

01:02:28.740 Get back.

01:02:29.940 Get back.

01:02:30.340 Quick, Cash. 0.65

01:02:39.880 Come, quick.

01:02:41.360 It's okay.

01:02:42.340 Come here.

01:02:43.180 Come here.

01:02:44.260 Come here, Cash.

01:02:47.760 Post it.

01:02:48.980 Cash.

01:02:50.180 Hey, he's got a bird in his mouth.

01:02:52.540 Bubba.

01:02:54.420 Hey, Bubba.

01:02:57.420 It's a guinea.

01:02:58.340 There's no chicken.

01:03:01.640 Come here, Bubba.

01:03:02.560 Come here, Cash.

01:03:03.200 Come here, Bubba.

01:03:03.680 Cash.

01:03:04.520 Quick.

01:03:06.800 Come here, Bubba.

01:03:18.460 Paul Murdoch there was trying to take a video of the dog, Cash, of his tail for his friend

01:03:23.700 who wanted to know if the dog's tail had been hurt.

01:03:26.300 And so you definitely hear three voices on it, for sure.

01:03:29.240 And that other male voice.

01:03:31.180 Alex Murdoch has like a high voice.

01:03:33.040 Alec has a high voice.

01:03:34.800 And there's been testimony, Vinny, that it was 100% him.

01:03:39.300 Yeah.

01:03:39.860 The young man who's like, he described himself as a member of the family.

01:03:45.700 Like Alec and Maggie were his second parents.

01:03:48.480 Paul was like his brother.

01:03:49.580 And he was on the phone with Paul and he heard what was going on in the background.

01:03:53.300 And he heard Alec's voice there.

01:03:55.240 So now you have Alec lying about where he is just prior to the murders, which is at the

01:04:02.240 scene of the murders.

01:04:03.940 Why do you lie?

01:04:04.800 Why would you lie about that?

01:04:06.800 What time was that video taken in relation to the murders?

01:04:09.440 That's 848, I think, is when it's taken, right around 848.

01:04:15.000 Or the last phone activity is 848.

01:04:18.520 That's like 844.

01:04:20.260 Then the last phone activity is at 848.

01:04:22.900 And then I think there's one incoming message to Paul's phone at 849.

01:04:27.560 So it's right there in that window of time when he said he was taking a nap.

01:04:33.100 You see, and I agree.

01:04:34.440 I agree with that, but there's a problem with this timeline, and this is why the state has

01:04:39.260 done, I think, a poor job of laying out this timeline clearly for the jury, or at least

01:04:45.000 for us consumers.

01:04:46.440 And that is that you're right, 844, we have him at those kennels, but there's basically

01:04:52.600 an hour and 22 minute period, which they're saying he committed the murders, went back to

01:04:57.580 the house, disposed of the weapons, disposed of the bloody clothes, went to his mother's

01:05:02.300 house, came back to the scene.

01:05:04.220 And in fact, there's actually a 15-minute window, which is really operative, in which

01:05:08.640 the wife's cell phone was taken off of her, probably after the murder.

01:05:12.320 And the last movement of that phone, which was tossed on the side of the road, was 90612.

01:05:17.800 And his car starts at 90648.

01:05:21.000 So that's about a two-mile distance.

01:05:22.720 So he is starting his car to get in his car at the same time the phone is being tossed about

01:05:27.840 two miles away.

01:05:29.680 So there's some other issues here.

01:05:32.760 So OK, let's hear what the Vinny pushback is.

01:05:35.280 Well, I think the defense experts will say it was 906 when it was tossed out.

01:05:39.460 But I don't think the state expert will agree that's the time of the tossing.

01:05:42.700 This is this whole technology.

01:05:44.000 I didn't realize that they can track whether your phone is vertical or horizontal.

01:05:48.740 And what the defense is going to argue, and they may have a great expert that can say,

01:05:52.860 is when you toss the phone, it should show it's going from horizontal to vertical.

01:05:56.520 I think what the state expert said is that if it's in a certain mode and it's tossed,

01:06:02.040 that won't necessarily record.

01:06:04.380 So that's a point of contention. 0.97

01:06:06.760 If the defense is successful in convincing the jerk that the phone is tossed at 906, 0.96

01:06:13.840 then you definitely have an issue for the prosecution. 0.95

01:06:17.740 But I don't think they're conceding that point.

01:06:19.760 I think they're going to try to dispute it.

01:06:21.900 But we'll see what the jury does with it.

01:06:23.360 They convinced Steve, though, didn't they?

01:06:25.220 Well, it's not that I'm convinced.

01:06:27.100 I'm saying that there's a reasonable doubt.

01:06:29.560 Yeah.

01:06:29.940 Yeah.

01:06:30.200 If the timeline doesn't add up, that's a problem for the prosecution.

01:06:32.800 Although one wonders how accurate these things are.

01:06:35.000 Oh, my God.

01:06:35.440 Could it could it couldn't have been off by like 50 seconds or, you know, a minute or two?

01:06:40.380 I don't know.

01:06:41.360 Well, see, that's why the car starting time and the phone time are very important,

01:06:45.120 because those you can nail down with some precision.

01:06:47.480 So the last movement of that phone was at the same exact time as he gets in his car.

01:06:53.600 The last recorded record.

01:06:55.180 That's the last movement that they can ascertain.

01:06:57.860 And I think what's the point is going to come up is going to be if you if you sort of you know,

01:07:03.020 when you blank your phone and there's nothing on it, you hit the little button on the right and it's blank.

01:07:07.600 I think what the state expert was saying is if it's in that state and you throw it,

01:07:12.040 it's not going to record the changing direction of the phone.

01:07:14.900 So maybe the phone is turned off and he drives a little.

01:07:17.860 Then he tosses it.

01:07:19.480 But all right.

01:07:20.260 Wait, let's move on.

01:07:21.000 I'm not sure.

01:07:21.720 I'm not sure.

01:07:22.420 They have to clarify something to keep an eye on.

01:07:23.760 He's got a great point, though.

01:07:25.040 Prosecutors have to be more clear here in the way they're building this case, 0.97

01:07:28.300 or they've got to have the most unbelievable closing argument of all time.

01:07:32.840 I was going to say they'll pull it all together in the closing.

01:07:35.300 The second video is.

01:07:37.600 Also very problematic for Alec.

01:07:40.660 It is a Snapchat video of Alec Murdoch taken by his son, Paul, earlier that evening.

01:07:47.140 It's only about an hour.

01:07:49.440 And Paul sent the video to friends at 7.56 p.m.

01:07:52.800 about almost exactly an hour before the alleged before the murder.

01:07:56.360 I think it was taken a few minutes before that.

01:08:01.020 But it very clearly place places Alec Murdoch at the scene.

01:08:05.420 It very clearly does that.

01:08:06.860 And but the thing that's telling about it is the clothing he he's wearing different clothing than when the cops came.

01:08:15.320 Why did he change his clothes?

01:08:17.160 He's here's the video.

01:08:18.240 So 14.

01:08:18.960 All right, we cut it short.

01:08:28.180 So there he is wearing a blue shirt and khakis.

01:08:30.580 And Vinny, that's not what he's wearing later that evening after the murders.

01:08:34.740 No.

01:08:35.420 Right.

01:08:35.720 So the defense makes a big deal that there's you know, there should be all this blood on his clothes.

01:08:39.840 But he shows up for the interview when police respond to the scene.

01:08:43.820 He's got shorts and a T-shirt on that was described as it appeared freshly laundered to one of the first responders who testified.

01:08:52.760 So he's wearing something different.

01:08:54.940 That's clear.

01:08:55.760 So, you know, when did he change clothes?

01:08:59.500 When did he change clothes?

01:09:01.440 Did he change clothes as soon as he got, you know, as soon as he finished with whatever he's doing with that tree?

01:09:07.180 Or did he change clothes after the murder?

01:09:09.440 And that's the problem.

01:09:10.560 Here's the real problem.

01:09:11.460 Where are those clothes?

01:09:12.500 Where's the khaki and the blue shirt?

01:09:14.100 Right.

01:09:14.480 So if you're innocent, if you're innocent, and I know you don't have to prove anything.

01:09:18.060 I know the defense doesn't have to put a piece of evidence in.

01:09:20.900 But you could really dazzle this jury if you're the defense.

01:09:24.600 If you break out the khakis and the blue shirt and show it to the jury during your case and there's no blood, there's no luminol, you sent it to the lab and you had it all tested.

01:09:34.020 You could win the case right there.

01:09:35.740 You could win the case.

01:09:36.620 So good.

01:09:37.420 That is a great point, Vinny.

01:09:39.260 Steve, he's teeing up some very difficult arguments for you as Alex Spake, defense attorney, to take on.

01:09:45.460 Not at all.

01:09:46.440 Not at all.

01:09:46.880 Why not?

01:09:47.360 Why is that not a problem?

01:09:48.880 Well, first of all, it is South Carolina in the summertime, and he's outside digging around on trees, dirt.

01:09:55.720 Boy, when you get back home, the first thing you do is clean off and wash off and change your clothes.

01:10:00.460 And he's pointing to lack of evidence as evidence against him.

01:10:05.740 Well, that's the state's burden to produce. 0.99

01:10:08.120 Now, the idea that this – and I thought the police really lost credibility when they testified that his clothes looked freshly laundered because there's no way anybody can look at somebody's clothes and say they're freshly laundered.

01:10:20.420 That is a reach, and that shows you that the police have an interest in convicting him.

01:10:25.100 And so I was very skeptical.

01:10:27.240 I thought that was a lack of credibility.

01:10:29.280 They did the same thing when they said that he admitted to the crime when he said, I done them wrong, when the audio said they done them wrong.

01:10:37.480 And it was clear to me, and that the guy sat on the stand, and we listened to it in slow playback.

01:10:43.960 And the fact is, he didn't say that.

01:10:45.840 He said they.

01:10:46.760 And then, of course, the cop, if somebody said, I did it, you would immediately write that down and follow up.

01:10:51.800 But they didn't write it down.

01:10:52.880 They didn't note it.

01:10:53.460 So that's another, let's make him look guilty today in trial rather than, is he actually guilty?

01:11:00.100 So I'm just saying the state is stretching here.

01:11:02.740 That's why they want to get in all this financial crime evidence to make him look bad, which he looks terrible.

01:11:07.620 He's guilty of sin on that stuff.

01:11:09.800 But did he actually murder his wife and child?

01:11:13.800 Doesn't strike to me.

01:11:14.780 I agree with you.

01:11:16.220 And in fact, his attitude on the video, on the audio just before the alleged murders, didn't sound hostile at all to me.

01:11:22.340 Well, I mean, it wouldn't necessarily.

01:11:25.500 But I agree with you on the point about the cop being like, I'm 100% certain it said I did them wrong.

01:11:30.640 You shouldn't say that because none of us is 100% certain listening to that tape.

01:11:35.220 What it says is too garbled.

01:11:36.740 And he didn't need to go that far.

01:11:38.320 And his actions after the fact, the defense did a good job crossing him.

01:11:40.960 His actions after the fact certainly did not suggest he heard that.

01:11:43.200 He didn't write it down.

01:11:44.240 He didn't follow up.

01:11:45.420 Like, I think he's doing some revisionist history there.

01:11:48.560 But can you expand, Steve?

01:11:50.100 Because it does seem like the defense is doing.

01:11:51.540 What what the defense attorneys in these cases often do, which is trying to say they unfair zero zeroed in, unfairly zeroed in on Alex Murdoch from the beginning and to the exclusion of all their subjects.

01:12:02.120 And like rush to judgment is what they're going to say.

01:12:05.440 And they were making points on that yesterday, talking about why didn't you put out a warning to the community after this double murder that there could be an active shooter on the loose?

01:12:17.500 So what were they trying to do there?

01:12:20.120 Yeah, I'm not certain how strong that is.

01:12:22.320 And we'll see.

01:12:23.060 I mean, we're sort of in the middle of this trial and it's a long trial and there's lots of interesting stuff.

01:12:27.880 Obviously, the defense job here is to raise a reasonable doubt.

01:12:31.480 And so did he do it beyond the exclusion of every reasonable doubt based on evidence?

01:12:37.260 So when we're when we're positing, you know, and we're watching the show and we're positing these alternative theories, it is a reasonable thing.

01:12:46.040 This guy has a lot of enemies and so does his son, including the family and friends of this person that he killed in the boat.

01:12:52.040 So is it possible somebody stood behind and hid and waited till he left and came out and shot the son and took the son's rifle and shot the wife?

01:13:01.320 I think the evidence and everything we've seen so far is entirely consistent with that reasonable hypothesis of innocence.

01:13:07.540 Now, it's it's the Saints bird to disprove.

01:13:10.320 Now, the problem is, can he get a fair trial?

01:13:12.000 Because obviously this community is done with this guy and done with his family and there's all this animosity he's stolen from everybody and he's been in power since 1920.

01:13:22.280 This family's been in power and his guy was a lead, the lead partner in a massive firm in South Carolina.

01:13:28.000 So I don't know if he can get a fair trial, but I think it's the job of the prosecutor and the judge to give him one.

01:13:34.620 So I don't know.

01:13:35.740 I'm just trying to raise some reason.

01:13:37.820 He's got home field advantage for this.

01:13:40.180 Are you kidding me?

01:13:41.340 They had to take down his grandfather's picture that was inside the courtroom.

01:13:46.060 This is a home match for this defendant and this attorney, Dick Harputlian.

01:13:51.280 You've got the attorney general who has to stay at the same hotel I am because he's from out of town who's trying his case.

01:13:57.760 This is a road game for the prosecution.

01:14:00.500 The defense did not want this thing moved.

01:14:03.440 They wanted to stay put.

01:14:05.220 I don't know if Alec Murdoch, as a civil attorney, has ever lost a case or any Murdoch has lost a case in this jurisdiction through the years.

01:14:14.260 But we'll see what happens here.

01:14:15.940 I just want to go back to the close.

01:14:17.260 I just want to say that if I and, you know, I don't know.

01:14:21.560 My common sense tells me that if you come home and you're a loving husband, a loving father, and you see two bodies that are bloodied, you might bend down.

01:14:30.400 You might touch them.

01:14:31.560 You might try some CPR.

01:14:33.000 You might hug them.

01:14:33.860 You might get some transfer of blood onto your clothes just to see if there's any proof of life, you know, but there wasn't.

01:14:44.300 And he didn't.

01:14:45.540 He was too clean.

01:14:47.280 He was too clean.

01:14:49.240 I don't think that's what the evidence shows.

01:14:51.060 From what I saw, I remember he didn't appear to have blood on him, but he did have, I believe, blood in the pockets and some blood within on his clothing that was recovered, which is consistent with him checking the body.

01:15:02.620 But the prosecution made this big thing about checking a body like this.

01:15:07.780 It's like the bloodiest scene ever.

01:15:09.660 Come on.

01:15:10.440 He could have.

01:15:10.960 He could have.

01:15:11.560 You're not going to take the shoulders and shake them a little bit.

01:15:14.220 You're not going to put your your head down to see if you hear a heartbeat.

01:15:17.780 We don't know how a person like this would react given the scene that he was confronted with.

01:15:22.100 So a slight touch and a shot in shock is consistent with the crime scene.

01:15:28.560 I don't know.

01:15:29.040 I know how Rabbi Newlander responded to a very similar scene years ago.

01:15:34.360 And I know where he is now.

01:15:36.480 Spending everybody is different.

01:15:37.860 Everybody reacts differently.

01:15:39.260 And nobody how would you nobody knows how they'd react if their their wife and son are bloodily murdered.

01:15:45.580 A slight touch with no heads blown off by guns.

01:15:48.840 A slight touch would probably be enough to put you in shock.

01:15:52.860 But I will say this.

01:15:53.880 If you didn't hear our discussion with Phil Houston yesterday, he he's the guy who invented the CIA's deception detection method still being used by the CIA today.

01:16:02.580 He was with the CIA for 25 years.

01:16:04.360 He's a human lie detector.

01:16:05.280 And he walked us through Alex Murdoch's Murdoch's discussion with the police that night when he was in the car.

01:16:11.360 You know, they were cross examining him like, what?

01:16:12.960 What about this?

01:16:13.440 What about this?

01:16:14.060 And the 911 call and the signs of deception are through the roof.

01:16:19.600 The human lie detector could walk you through each one and how off his his comments were and how.

01:16:26.180 And just like good reminders of how you wouldn't say like, oh, I tried to touch him as little as I could.

01:16:32.880 You wouldn't see wouldn't give a damn what what the cop thought about you messing with the crime scene.

01:16:37.940 Your your love, your son.

01:16:41.060 No, you wouldn't be trying to.

01:16:42.560 I'm a good boy.

01:16:43.560 I didn't mess.

01:16:44.540 It was such fascinating insight.

01:16:46.780 It's anecdotal, obviously, but it really interesting stuff.

01:16:49.620 You guys and not admissible.

01:16:51.640 No, but but good for us on the sidelines is just sort of, you know, some color.

01:16:56.180 Vinny and Steve, thank you both so much.

01:16:57.580 I really enjoyed it.

01:16:59.320 Thank you so much.

01:17:00.320 Great to see everyone.

01:17:01.660 Yeah.

01:17:01.940 To be continued.

01:17:02.560 Don't forget to check out Vinny on Court TV.

01:17:04.760 He's always worth your time.

01:17:06.280 Up next, a nurse comes under fire for the crime of believing in biology.

01:17:12.640 You know, because we have so many nurses in abundance everywhere. 1.00

01:17:15.900 Well, let's start firing the ones who just believe in actual biology.

01:17:19.340 She's here next to explain it all.

01:17:20.880 Now we take a little trip up north to Canada.

01:17:26.560 There's always something happening in Canada.

01:17:28.160 It's like it's like Florida, isn't it?

01:17:30.160 It's just always some bizarre news story that could be our future and kind of is already here.

01:17:36.100 For the last two years, a nurse has been investigated and issued a citation by a medical board for her off-duty conduct.

01:17:44.360 What did she do? 0.80

01:17:44.940 Did she take drugs? 0.81

01:17:46.460 Did she do something that could impact her work as a nurse?

01:17:49.540 No.

01:17:50.420 Her crime?

01:17:51.920 Showing support for a beloved children's book author and believing that biological sex is real.

01:17:57.820 A nurse with the nerve to believe that.

01:17:59.880 She now faces losing her nursing license altogether and her livelihood.

01:18:05.980 That nurse, Amy Hamm, is here to tell her story.

01:18:08.860 Amy, so good to have you here.

01:18:10.240 Welcome to the show.

01:18:12.080 Hi.

01:18:12.400 Thank you so much for having me.

01:18:14.120 Yeah, you bet.

01:18:14.960 So just walk us through.

01:18:15.980 How long had you been working as a nurse before this whole thing got started?

01:18:20.440 Sure.

01:18:20.900 I'm coming up on 11 years nursing.

01:18:23.500 I've never had a patient complaint this entire time.

01:18:28.840 And in the past two plus years, at this point, I've been under investigation by the BC College of Nurses.

01:18:36.340 And I've been going through this legal process where I could lose my license to work, as I said.

01:18:42.140 Or as you said, rather, for my off-duty conduct and my views that humans cannot change their sex and children are not born in the wrong body.

01:18:55.340 And the people who complained about me are people who I have never met, never cared for.

01:19:00.800 And one of them remains anonymous to me to this day.

01:19:04.360 Trying to ruin your life.

01:19:05.780 So what kind of nurse were you? 1.00

01:19:08.160 Are you?

01:19:08.500 So right now, I'm a nurse educator, and I work in an acute psychiatric and mental health and substance use program.

01:19:17.780 I've done some other types of nursing, including outreach nursing in the downtown east side in Vancouver, which is sort of...

01:19:25.440 But obviously, psychiatric nursing right now, in the wake of the pandemic, with all the numbers, is more important than ever.

01:19:33.080 Yes.

01:19:33.480 Yes.

01:19:34.500 I'm wondering, so you're working as a psychiatric nurse, you're there, you're taking care of patients.

01:19:38.860 Do you have the same problem in Canada that we have here with the nursing shortage, where they're just not going to nursing school, there's not enough coming up the pike? 1.00

01:19:46.940 Is the same thing up there?

01:19:49.580 Absolutely.

01:19:50.400 We have that.

01:19:51.420 We also have the issue in Canada where a lot of nurses were fired for not being vaccinated.

01:19:57.960 And they're still not back to work.

01:20:01.220 So there's definitely, every day, nurses in every area of Canada are dealing with staffing shortages.

01:20:07.620 We've had emergency departments in Canada completely shut down because we don't have the staff.

01:20:13.840 We just don't have healthcare staff to be there.

01:20:16.940 So it's at a crisis level.

01:20:18.980 So this first got started with you in connection with a billboard.

01:20:25.680 Explain.

01:20:27.400 Sure.

01:20:29.180 So I had been involved in talking about gender ideology for several years, writing about it, doing events about it.

01:20:36.820 And then during the pandemic, you couldn't do events anymore.

01:20:39.920 A friend and I put up this billboard together that said, I heart JK Rowling.

01:20:47.020 It was something that a woman in the UK did. 1.00

01:20:49.720 Her name's Posie Parker. 1.00

01:20:51.500 And after this happened, this was what spurred two members of the public to complain to the College of Nurses.

01:21:00.220 When people found out that I was a nurse, they accused me of being transphobic and said that I would not be safe to care for trans or gender diverse patients and that I should not be allowed to work as a nurse, that I'm dangerous.

01:21:18.320 And had you done any, when you said you had a group that was active before this, what was the group doing before the billboard?

01:21:25.720 I was involved in a few things, but one of, I am one of the founders of a group called COSBAR, which is Canadian women's sex-based rights.

01:21:36.060 So we are a nonprofit coalition of mostly women, but we also have some men too.

01:21:44.540 And we're across Canada and we've been growing in the last several years.

01:21:49.200 We have hundreds of people who are involved now.

01:21:51.460 We've done things like sending briefing documents to the government.

01:21:57.120 And right now we're really focusing on just building connections and talking to other Canadians just so that people understand what's happening with gender ideology and self-ID laws in Canada, which are really impacting the rights and safety of women and children.

01:22:16.020 Can you just give us an example of how?

01:22:18.540 Yes, where to start with that.

01:22:23.100 So there are so many ways that women and girls are impacted by self-ID laws in terms of we no longer have rape shelters where, well, there's one rape shelter in Canada that remains sex segregated.

01:22:37.160 But the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest.

01:23:07.160 to their safe spaces anymore. And then the whole other aspect is children who are being

01:23:13.340 medicalized and told that they were born in the wrong body. And Canada has actually made it 0.91

01:23:19.680 illegal under a criminal code for healthcare practitioners to do anything other than

01:23:25.320 immediately affirm the stated gender of a patient, no matter how old or how young they are.

01:23:30.200 Oh my God. It's like this weird dystopia where it's hard to believe this is actually happening.

01:23:39.860 This is a nightmare. The very quick and steady erosion of women's rights in virtually all of 1.00

01:23:45.980 their previously safe spaces. Yes, yes, absolutely. We've even seen an example in Canada. There's a

01:23:55.480 male who at one point was labeled Canada's youngest dangerous offender who raped a three-month-old

01:24:02.120 infant and ended up in women's prison where there's a mother-baby program. So this is how 0.99

01:24:08.280 heinous it is in Canada. And nobody seems to really care about women. If you raise any of these concerns,

01:24:15.560 you just get called transphobic and you, as has happened to me, you get investigated by

01:24:21.340 a regulatory body and threatened to lose your livelihood if you dare to try to speak out or

01:24:27.860 stand up for women or children. All right. So let's talk about it. So you say you don't,

01:24:32.240 at least one of the complainants, you don't even know who it is, but somebody complained to the British

01:24:36.600 Columbia College of Nurses and Midwives. And why did they, like, what was the nature of the complaint

01:24:42.140 that you were transphobe, right? And why did they take that seriously, right? It's like, these are your,

01:24:45.680 these are your biological and political views. You're allowed to have those views, or at least

01:24:51.040 used to be the case. So why did they actually begin an investigation?

01:24:57.100 The, the BC College of Nurses did have the discretion to not investigate me. They could

01:25:03.400 have looked at the complaints and said, this is clearly politically motivated as they clearly are.

01:25:09.560 But they did not decide to do that. Instead, they investigated me. They sent more than 300 pages

01:25:18.240 of investigation materials that largely was articles that I've written and tweets that I've made.

01:25:25.580 And they tried to reach a consent agreement with me as well that would have ended this,

01:25:32.600 I think, over a year and a half ago now. But they essentially wanted me to take a temporary

01:25:37.300 suspension, sign a statement of facts that would be released to the public. And it was admitting that

01:25:45.000 I had said transphobic things, and do some re-education, which, as I, the hard left loves to

01:25:53.740 re-educate people.

01:25:55.760 In China.

01:25:58.360 Yeah, exactly. I'm surprised that they didn't suggest that I needed to be sent to the gulags. But,

01:26:03.980 so that was what they did. And I just said, no, I'm not signing this document. I haven't done

01:26:08.780 anything wrong. I'm not taking a suspension. When this is purely about what I have done outside of

01:26:15.800 work. I've still been, it's been going on for more than two years. I'm still working at my job.

01:26:21.800 My employer doesn't have any issue with me. I've never had an issue with what I do at work. I think

01:26:28.660 I'm a great nurse. And so it's very clearly, this is all about thought crimes and a regulatory body

01:26:37.160 that's captured by gender ideology and thinks that they have the right to take away the freedoms 1.00

01:26:43.140 of nurses and regulated healthcare professionals.

01:26:47.840 Is there any defense if they're, if they're this dug in on, you're not allowed to have that view.

01:26:53.860 You, biological sex cannot be treated as real. Um, how do you defend yourself? I mean, aren't you 0.99

01:26:59.260 just going to be found guilty? And, you know, like, how do you get out of this?

01:27:02.480 So far, I've been to 11 days of hearings, uh, with another eight or so coming up. So it's, I,

01:27:13.980 I've been told that there are murder trials that are shorter than this. Um, and it is,

01:27:22.340 it's really difficult sitting and listening. The experts from the college are offering testimonies,

01:27:30.160 such as, you know, some lesbians have penises and you just, it's like you're in the twilight zone. 0.99

01:27:37.620 Um, so I, I'm going through this hearing process. I don't know when the hearing will resume or how 0.98

01:27:44.860 many more days it will be. Right now I'm, I'm thinking it will be 19 days total. It could be more,

01:27:49.760 um, after the panel that rules on the hearing, they're an impartial panel made up of members of

01:27:57.880 the public and nurses, they make a ruling. And depending on what happens, it can then move

01:28:02.860 into Canada's, um, court system. It could go as high as the Supreme Court of Canada. Um, and of

01:28:08.900 course I'm willing to take it as far as it needs to go because I, I'm not okay with the BCCNM taking

01:28:17.580 away my right to free expression. Um, and every nurse and they regulate midwives as well. And it's 0.62

01:28:26.780 just so absurd that a profession that is mostly women nurses and midwives and biological sex is so 0.96

01:28:35.480 crucial to our work. It's just, I, I, like I said, I feel like I'm in the twilight zone and I will

01:28:44.040 definitely fight this as far as I have to, because this is just not something that happens in a free

01:28:49.200 and democratic country. Uh, it's incredible to me that this thing is taking 11 now another eight days.

01:28:57.020 Like how long, what, what is there to discuss? You know, they, I recognize they don't see it your

01:29:03.260 way, but are you treating in this as a psychiatric nurse, trans people who want to figure out whether

01:29:09.540 they're really trans? Is that, is that at issue or is that not a part of your practice?

01:29:15.780 No. And I'm, I'm a nurse educator right now, so I don't do a lot of frontline work, but that I've

01:29:22.380 worked with countless trans patients. It's never been an issue, but no, I don't work in an area where 1.00

01:29:27.800 I'm discussing someone's gender identity with them. Um, and have these views. You're just not allowed 1.00

01:29:34.460 to have them. 100%. It's just about thought crimes. Wow. So this has been going on how long now?

01:29:46.200 More than two years. I think it's at two years and three or four months.

01:29:52.280 Has this cost you money? Have you like, who's defending you and just talk about what this has

01:29:57.100 put you through as a human? Sure. I'm extremely grateful that my, uh, lawyers are funded by

01:30:05.200 Canada's justice center for constitutional freedoms. Uh, this is the sort of case that they take on and

01:30:12.660 that's an enormous relief. I could have used my nursing union for legal representation, but I was

01:30:19.560 worried that they were as captured by gender ideology as the college is, and they've gone on

01:30:26.740 to prove that in fact they are. So, um, I knew that I had to find my own lawyers. I did. And I,

01:30:34.460 I mentioned, I have been working the whole time. My employer doesn't have any issue with my work

01:30:40.700 performance. They're not concerned about me being a danger to any patients. Um, but of course it's very

01:30:48.840 stressful having this idea hanging over your head for more than two years that you could lose

01:30:55.020 your job and your livelihood and maybe even your home. I have a two sons. One is three and one is

01:31:02.460 six. And, um, it's just me and my boys. Uh, I am responsible for them. So it's, um, it's hard.

01:31:11.660 And then you see when you're at work and you've been publicly labeled a bigot people I've known and

01:31:19.000 worked with for years who don't even look at me anymore. It's awkward. Um, but at the same time,

01:31:26.760 I like to remember that this case is, I, I shouldn't take it personally. It's not really

01:31:33.860 about me. It's more so about this hard left gender ideology. And I think this case would have happened 0.96

01:31:43.260 in Canada no matter what. And it just happens to have been me that is doing it. But I think

01:31:49.440 it's really important that we try to fight this kind of thing in our legal system so that we don't

01:31:59.220 let these institutions control us and take our freedoms away. That's right. If, if, if the courts

01:32:04.580 don't stop them, then there's, there's nothing else to do. Like they, they are the place of last resort

01:32:10.320 for, for, for rights that, that used to be afforded all of us, the right to think what you want.

01:32:15.500 It's not to say what you want off duty. That's what's so nuts about this. Um, in a way that

01:32:21.840 doesn't affect or have to do with your nursing at all. A question for you. I'm told that, uh,

01:32:28.540 Dr. Miriam Grossman, who was featured in the Matt Walsh film. What is a woman? She was amazing 0.86

01:32:33.140 that, uh, your legal counsel is going to call her. So what do you expect she's going to say? And

01:32:39.400 will they listen? So I actually got some news last night, the college had tried to disqualify all of

01:32:49.680 our experts. And so far, Dr. Grossman did appear just to speak to her qualifications and, um, the

01:32:59.200 college argued against her being able to give testimony. Um, so last night, uh, got the decision

01:33:06.840 that Dr. Grossman has not been qualified as an expert and she will not be able to give testimony

01:33:12.540 in my case. Why?

01:33:17.340 Uh, I can't get into the lengthy ruling. It's the, it's the panel that made a ruling. And,

01:33:23.060 you know, I guess what, what I can say about the panel is that I'm really still hoping that due

01:33:29.700 process is going to work out for me. And I'm trying to put my faith in that. Uh, we have one

01:33:36.660 witness right now that actually was qualified and that's Dr. Kathleen stock from the UK.

01:33:41.720 I'm not sure if you're familiar with her. That's good. Yeah. That'll help. But yes,

01:33:47.380 Dr. Grossman is, is unfortunately not going to be able to give testimony in my case.

01:33:54.360 Yeah. They're, they're trying to handicap your case. They're trying to hobble your case. So I'm

01:34:00.220 wondering whether you've heard from JK Rowling at all. I'm just curious cause that that's how it got

01:34:04.560 started. Um, you, she followed me on Twitter and we've just, yeah, so that's about it. And she's

01:34:13.920 liked some of my tweets. I think a couple relating to the hearing as well. Um, that was, uh, that was

01:34:20.200 very exciting when she did that. She's that's something I really love her. Yeah. Yes. And

01:34:26.220 she's been so respectful in her messaging. She's always so quick, even in her first tweets, um,

01:34:32.860 that led to your billboard to say like, I will march with my trans brothers and sisters. I'm very

01:34:37.840 much pro trans rights. However, I refuse to deny biological sex. I mean, it's like that,

01:34:43.960 that she's been turned into this pariah that they're trying to do the same to you is deeply,

01:34:48.920 deeply wrong. Yeah. When you listen to her words, it's, there's no hate in anything she has ever

01:34:56.720 said. It's just incredible that people respond the way they do. They're not listening before I let you

01:35:05.160 go quickly. Uh, if, if you don't get to continue nursing, what's your backup plan? I'm still thinking

01:35:12.260 about it. I'm not sure yet, but, um, yeah, I've got some ideas churning in my mind.

01:35:19.060 Move to Florida. That's what everybody does. I would love that. I'm sure it's not going to be

01:35:23.800 that tough to, to get your nursing credentials down here. And, uh, there are still some free states, 1.00

01:35:28.620 so all hope is not lost. Yes. Amy, I hope that's not necessary. Good luck to you and your family.

01:35:33.100 And thanks for telling us your story. Thank you so much for having me.

01:35:36.420 Wow. Oh my gosh. It's awful. Right? Um, listen, thanks to everybody for watching. Thanks to you

01:35:42.360 for joining us today. Hope you have a great weekend. Don't forget to download the show

01:35:45.880 and go to youtube.com slash Megan Kelly. Don't watch it.

01:35:51.140 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - February 03, 2023

Don Lemon Allegedly “Screamed” at Co-Host, and a Must-Hear Debate on the Alex Murdaugh Trial, with Jesse Kelly, Vinnie Politan, Steve Gosney, and Amy Hamm ｜ Ep. 486

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