The Megyn Kelly Show - Don Lemon's Accuser Speaks Out and the Mediocrity of the Elites, with Dustin Hice and Emily Jashinsky ｜ Ep. 198

00:00:00.000 When I found out my friend got a great deal

00:00:02.160 on a wool coat from Winners,

00:00:03.760 I started wondering,

00:00:05.440 is every fabulous item I see from Winners?

00:00:08.560 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans. 1.00

00:00:11.260 Are those from Winners?

00:00:12.780 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings.

00:00:15.260 Did she pay full price?

00:00:16.600 Or that leather tote?

00:00:17.620 Or that cashmere sweater?

00:00:18.500 Or those knee-high boots?

00:00:20.300 That dress?

00:00:21.080 That jacket?

00:00:21.740 Those shoes?

00:00:22.780 Is anyone paying full price for anything?

00:00:25.800 Stop wondering.

00:00:27.000 Start winning.

00:00:27.940 Winners.

00:00:28.520 Find fabulous for less.

00:00:30.600 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:32.520 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:41.960 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:43.660 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.000 We begin today with an exclusive interview

00:00:47.680 in connection with the civil case for assault,

00:00:51.420 assault of a sexual nature, against Don Lemon,

00:00:55.040 set for trial just two months from right now.

00:00:57.620 It is a case most of the media,

00:00:59.620 seemingly obsessed with Me Too stories

00:01:01.780 when they are against a Republican

00:01:03.660 or certainly anyone affiliated with conservative media,

00:01:06.980 has chosen to ignore,

00:01:08.720 despite a credible victim account

00:01:10.180 and a supportive, on-the-record statement

00:01:12.820 by an eyewitness.

00:01:14.000 In the summer of 2018,

00:01:16.220 a man named Dustin Heiss,

00:01:17.840 then a bartender in the Hamptons,

00:01:19.800 says he went to a bar named Murph's

00:01:21.840 along with his friend and boss,

00:01:24.580 George Ganellis.

00:01:26.280 There they encountered CNN's Don Lemon,

00:01:28.780 and an event transpired that Mr. Heiss says

00:01:31.260 would change his life forever.

00:01:33.640 Lemon, who CNN allows to fashion himself

00:01:36.440 night after night as a Me Too advocate

00:01:38.260 and a social justice warrior,

00:01:40.760 allegedly committed an assault on Mr. Heiss

00:01:43.240 that was sexual in nature

00:01:45.000 and clearly meant to humiliate him.

00:01:48.280 After some time, Mr. Heiss decided

00:01:50.180 to file a civil lawsuit against Lemon,

00:01:52.520 accusing him of assault and battery

00:01:54.060 under New York law, among other claims.

00:01:56.780 He has been called a liar

00:01:57.860 and an extortionist by CNN,

00:02:01.440 which oddly has inserted itself in this lawsuit,

00:02:04.940 despite the fact that it has no proper role here.

00:02:08.180 And Mr. Lemon denies the allegations.

00:02:11.360 Today, Dustin Heiss goes on camera

00:02:13.280 for the first time

00:02:14.060 to detail what he says happened to him that night,

00:02:17.240 why he says Don Lemon is a predator

00:02:19.580 being enabled by CNN,

00:02:21.720 and to tell his story on the record

00:02:23.620 in advance of the trial this January.

00:02:26.900 Dustin, welcome to you.

00:02:27.860 Thank you for being here.

00:02:29.560 Hey, Megan.

00:02:30.040 Thank you for having me.

00:02:31.720 So let's start at the beginning.

00:02:33.520 You are in the Hamptons in the summer of 2018.

00:02:37.700 And what were you doing there?

00:02:39.980 I got a job bartending for the summer

00:02:43.280 and I moved up there at the end of June

00:02:46.780 and was planning on staying through Labor Day.

00:02:51.960 Okay.

00:02:52.240 So a lot of people go to the Hamptons for the summer

00:02:54.040 to enjoy themselves or for some dough.

00:02:57.140 And so it was a temporary situation

00:02:58.600 where you're going to bartend for the summer.

00:03:00.440 Correct.

00:03:00.980 It's an opportunity to make a lot of money

00:03:02.280 in a short amount of time

00:03:03.380 in the hospitality industry.

00:03:06.960 Okay.

00:03:07.380 And what bar did you work for?

00:03:09.820 I worked for a bar called Old Stove Pub

00:03:12.020 in Sagatonic.

00:03:13.840 And that's where George was.

00:03:15.680 George was your boss there,

00:03:16.960 the guy who I just mentioned.

00:03:18.880 Correct.

00:03:20.000 Okay.

00:03:20.460 So you and George one night,

00:03:22.340 this is July of 2018.

00:03:24.320 Do you remember the specific date of the incident?

00:03:26.620 It was July 15th of 2018.

00:03:28.380 Okay.

00:03:29.240 You and George wrap up your shift at your bar

00:03:32.560 and decide to go out for a late night drink?

00:03:36.260 Well, we had worked almost two weeks consecutively

00:03:40.220 because 4th of July fell in the middle of the week

00:03:42.340 that week or that year.

00:03:45.060 And we had worked for almost two weeks straight.

00:03:49.180 So Sunday we came into work

00:03:51.020 and we had very little,

00:03:53.240 if any,

00:03:54.440 reservations on the books.

00:03:56.680 So our boss,

00:03:58.040 George,

00:03:58.680 gave us the night off.

00:04:01.340 And so we went to Montauk for a little bit

00:04:03.820 and then we came to Sag Harbor.

00:04:06.280 And that's when I encountered Don Lemon.

00:04:09.000 Okay.

00:04:09.480 And those are towns in the Hamptons

00:04:10.900 that are very popular with folks.

00:04:12.220 So you walk into this bar called Murph's,

00:04:14.860 which I understand is very popular

00:04:16.580 and sometimes with the celebrity set,

00:04:18.580 though it's described as kind of a dive bar.

00:04:21.180 Like it's not a fancy place.

00:04:22.600 It's just popular amongst people who are well-known.

00:04:25.740 And did you see him right away when you walked in?

00:04:29.060 So I walked in

00:04:30.220 and I saw him right out of the corner of my eye

00:04:32.200 and sitting in the over to the right.

00:04:34.260 And he was with a group of a couple other men.

00:04:36.820 And I said to George,

00:04:39.000 I said,

00:04:39.260 look,

00:04:39.500 that's Don Lemon right there.

00:04:41.000 And I decided to approach him

00:04:43.480 and I said,

00:04:45.040 hey,

00:04:45.220 Don,

00:04:45.540 let me buy you a drink.

00:04:46.640 And before he could even respond,

00:04:48.800 I looked at the bartender

00:04:50.040 and I said,

00:04:50.640 let me get two lemon drops.

00:04:52.260 And if anything,

00:04:53.180 that was an attempt at humor.

00:04:56.020 And I didn't mean anything derogatory

00:04:58.440 or,

00:04:58.880 you know,

00:04:59.360 I wasn't trying to harass him or,

00:05:02.300 you know,

00:05:03.160 and Don looks at me and says,

00:05:06.040 I'm just trying to have a good time.

00:05:08.160 And at that time,

00:05:09.020 I said,

00:05:09.640 okay,

00:05:09.960 I'm sorry.

00:05:10.640 And I walked away.

00:05:11.540 And I thought that was the end of it.

00:05:13.580 Okay.

00:05:13.760 And so what,

00:05:14.620 why did you do that?

00:05:15.700 Had you been a fan of his?

00:05:16.980 Like what made you offer to buy him a drink?

00:05:20.080 Honestly,

00:05:20.480 I was just being cordial.

00:05:22.220 I,

00:05:22.780 you know,

00:05:23.020 I worked as a bartender

00:05:24.020 and part of your job is to

00:05:26.360 engage with your guests

00:05:28.300 and,

00:05:28.940 you know,

00:05:29.880 just have a good time.

00:05:31.160 Everybody,

00:05:31.700 typically when they're at a bar

00:05:33.280 or in a restaurant,

00:05:34.260 they're trying to just enjoy themselves.

00:05:37.280 And I was just being friendly.

00:05:39.260 It was just a hello.

00:05:41.020 And I didn't mean anything

00:05:42.300 derogatory towards it.

00:05:44.000 But as soon as he said,

00:05:45.320 I'm just trying to have a good time,

00:05:46.420 I walked away.

00:05:47.400 And that was,

00:05:47.780 that was that.

00:05:48.900 What time of night was this?

00:05:51.100 Uh,

00:05:52.140 approximately about maybe 10 PM,

00:05:53.980 maybe nine 30.

00:05:55.260 Okay.

00:05:55.840 And could you tell at this point,

00:05:58.140 this particular point where you would offer

00:05:59.800 to buy him a lemon drop,

00:06:01.540 um,

00:06:02.400 whether he was intoxicated?

00:06:06.100 I mean,

00:06:06.620 it seemed that he had had a few drinks.

00:06:08.580 That's for sure.

00:06:09.940 How could you tell?

00:06:12.060 He just was kind of like shaking his head

00:06:14.400 and he was like,

00:06:14.960 he looked at me like,

00:06:16.140 uh,

00:06:16.440 just,

00:06:17.160 you know,

00:06:17.480 you're a bartender.

00:06:18.220 You can,

00:06:18.540 you pick up on these things.

00:06:19.720 People sit at your bar and drink all the time,

00:06:21.600 you know,

00:06:21.920 and,

00:06:22.420 uh,

00:06:22.840 he did not look sober by any means.

00:06:25.240 Okay.

00:06:25.860 So he declined your drink and then,

00:06:27.840 and how far away were the two of you

00:06:29.680 from one another at this point?

00:06:31.860 Three feet at the most.

00:06:33.700 And,

00:06:34.180 and I'll ask you this because it becomes relevant shortly,

00:06:36.480 but,

00:06:36.900 um,

00:06:37.220 for the record,

00:06:38.180 are,

00:06:38.580 are you straight?

00:06:40.440 Oh,

00:06:40.860 yes.

00:06:41.320 I have a girlfriend and,

00:06:42.760 um,

00:06:43.340 you know,

00:06:43.580 once this is all behind me,

00:06:44.840 we hope to get married one of these days.

00:06:46.680 Okay.

00:06:46.940 So in no way was this a sexual come on by you.

00:06:50.100 Okay. 0.70

00:06:51.820 And Don is openly gay and,

00:06:53.520 and either engaged or married,

00:06:54.760 uh,

00:06:55.200 to a man.

00:06:55.720 So,

00:06:56.040 uh,

00:06:56.660 and that's been well established.

00:06:57.700 Okay.

00:06:57.960 So it was basically just a friendly gesture.

00:06:59.940 He declined it.

00:07:00.920 And then what happened next?

00:07:02.800 So I walk around the bar,

00:07:04.360 um,

00:07:05.180 and about five minutes goes by and he walks,

00:07:08.420 he comes around the bar and comes up to me and he says,

00:07:11.680 um,

00:07:12.420 um,

00:07:13.520 pardon my language,

00:07:14.280 but he says,

00:07:14.940 do you like me? 1.00

00:07:15.560 Is that why you're fucking with me? 1.00

00:07:17.840 And I said, 1.00

00:07:18.920 no,

00:07:19.400 uh,

00:07:19.860 I just wanted to say what's up.

00:07:21.300 And I was just like,

00:07:22.280 what's this guy's problem.

00:07:23.480 And,

00:07:24.480 um,

00:07:24.880 I looked at my boss and in that moment,

00:07:28.400 he's puts his hand down his pants and starts aggressively.

00:07:32.020 Can you start that over?

00:07:33.120 You're talking about Don.

00:07:33.880 Go ahead.

00:07:34.700 Yeah.

00:07:34.940 So after he says,

00:07:36.720 are you,

00:07:37.240 do you like me?

00:07:37.780 Is that why you're effing with me?

00:07:39.560 And I said,

00:07:40.100 no,

00:07:40.520 just wanted to say what's up,

00:07:41.680 man.

00:07:41.880 And I look at my boss and I look back and he has his hand in his pants, 0.98

00:07:46.620 rubbing himself aggressively.

00:07:48.220 And he shoves his two fingers up underneath my mustache,

00:07:51.900 thrust my head back and says, 1.00

00:07:54.600 do you like pussy or dick? 1.00

00:07:56.840 And he said it like two or three times after that. 1.00

00:07:59.080 And I just said, 0.52

00:08:00.160 what the hell, 0.97

00:08:00.740 man? 0.86

00:08:01.020 And I just ran out the back door.

00:08:04.320 So forgive my indelicate question,

00:08:06.920 but when you say he put his hands down his,

00:08:09.740 his pants,

00:08:10.620 what kind of pants was he wearing?

00:08:11.920 And how do you know what he was doing in there?

00:08:15.180 He was wearing shorts.

00:08:16.820 And I mean,

00:08:17.780 it was pretty obvious to everybody that saw what he did.

00:08:21.860 He was just rubbing himself and,

00:08:24.040 uh,

00:08:25.140 you know,

00:08:25.400 with impunity,

00:08:26.000 just pushed his hands up under my face enough to thrust my head back and,

00:08:30.580 uh,

00:08:32.340 degrade me. 1.00

00:08:34.260 So he was rubbing his genitals and then he shoved, 0.99

00:08:36.740 the fingers that he was doing it with in your nose, 0.99

00:08:39.300 in your face.

00:08:40.660 Correct.

00:08:42.660 Um,

00:08:43.480 did it strike you as something he had ever done before?

00:08:48.440 I don't know.

00:08:49.340 Anybody that acts like that in public and without any fear of what it might do

00:08:54.240 to somebody or the consequences it might have,

00:08:56.260 that's a pattern,

00:08:58.280 you know,

00:08:58.620 it's,

00:08:59.320 um,

00:09:00.540 I don't,

00:09:02.160 I don't know.

00:09:02.680 I,

00:09:02.940 I wouldn't be surprised.

00:09:04.480 I mean,

00:09:05.220 he's protected by,

00:09:07.280 by the fact that he's African-American,

00:09:09.620 uh, 0.95

00:09:10.660 gay man on television. 0.93

00:09:12.140 And, 0.91

00:09:12.820 uh,

00:09:13.620 I'm just some nobody.

00:09:14.880 When he touched your face,

00:09:18.880 did he actually make contact with your face?

00:09:21.540 Yeah.

00:09:21.960 He pushed my face back completely.

00:09:25.320 Wow.

00:09:25.800 And so did you,

00:09:26.920 did you stumble back or did you maintain your footing?

00:09:29.560 I,

00:09:29.940 at this point I had turned around and my back was to the bar and he pushed me so

00:09:34.460 forcefully that I was leaning up over the bar.

00:09:37.240 And,

00:09:37.740 uh,

00:09:38.520 you know,

00:09:38.840 after about two seconds of that and him,

00:09:41.340 him repeating,

00:09:42.380 you know,

00:09:43.800 what he said,

00:09:45.020 P or D,

00:09:45.840 P or D. 0.87

00:09:46.600 Yeah.

00:09:46.920 Yeah.

00:09:47.440 And after all that,

00:09:48.560 I just like, 0.56

00:09:49.500 what the hell?

00:09:50.040 And I just ran out the back door and,

00:09:52.340 you know,

00:09:52.460 in certain circumstances,

00:09:53.880 you know,

00:09:54.940 a lot of men would have reacted aggressively and that,

00:09:57.960 you know,

00:09:58.520 in that split second,

00:09:59.460 I had to make a decision.

00:10:00.500 And,

00:10:00.860 you know,

00:10:01.560 when you go through something like that,

00:10:02.920 it's either fight or flight.

00:10:04.220 And I chose flight.

00:10:06.580 And how does that,

00:10:07.780 how does that make you feel?

00:10:08.940 I mean,

00:10:09.220 I know we've talked about your case on this show before,

00:10:11.440 and I know some,

00:10:12.160 some guys are like,

00:10:12.840 I would have beaten the hell,

00:10:13.780 but like,

00:10:14.160 how does that make you feel now?

00:10:15.940 Oh,

00:10:16.300 it resonates every,

00:10:17.580 not a day goes by where I,

00:10:19.320 you know,

00:10:19.580 think about it.

00:10:20.440 And,

00:10:20.620 but then on the other side of the coin,

00:10:23.180 if I would have reacted violently,

00:10:25.580 you know,

00:10:26.080 they would have came after me as some aggressor.

00:10:29.020 And I didn't,

00:10:30.260 you know,

00:10:30.540 I,

00:10:30.900 I composed myself and I,

00:10:33.020 I handled it the way,

00:10:35.420 you know,

00:10:36.040 anybody put in that situation.

00:10:39.780 Quite frankly,

00:10:40.940 I hope it never happens to anybody,

00:10:42.520 but if,

00:10:43.220 if you're put in that situation,

00:10:44.360 you have,

00:10:45.280 you have a split second to make a reaction.

00:10:47.220 And if I had been heavily intoxicated,

00:10:50.100 or if I was,

00:10:51.340 wasn't with my boss,

00:10:52.580 whom I'd only known for about two and a half weeks.

00:10:54.920 And I worked for,

00:10:56.320 it might've been a different outcome,

00:10:57.700 but that's what happened that night.

00:11:00.180 And I ran out the back door and tried to compose myself.

00:11:03.580 And I even said to my boss that night,

00:11:06.240 I said,

00:11:06.620 should I go back in there and confront him?

00:11:08.420 And he's like,

00:11:09.160 you can't do that now.

00:11:10.520 But my only regret is that right next door to Murph's tavern in Sag Harbor is the police station.

00:11:17.580 And if I would have been thinking more clearly and not in a state of shock,

00:11:21.780 I would have gone next door and said,

00:11:23.260 I just got assaulted next door.

00:11:24.660 Come look at the videotapes.

00:11:26.020 And,

00:11:26.300 and this would have been three years of my life that I hadn't had to go through this.

00:11:31.600 And he would be facing other kinds of,

00:11:33.340 uh,

00:11:34.320 legal situations instead of just a civil case.

00:11:37.320 Had you been drinking prior to this,

00:11:39.120 Dustin?

00:11:40.020 I had maybe two beers in Montauk.

00:11:42.500 And so I was pretty sober.

00:11:44.360 I mean,

00:11:44.900 okay.

00:11:45.580 You remember it clearly?

00:11:47.380 Yes.

00:11:48.380 Very clear.

00:11:49.060 You don't forget something like this.

00:11:51.140 Who,

00:11:51.540 who,

00:11:51.920 if anyone in the bar,

00:11:52.960 do you believe witnessed it?

00:11:55.520 Um,

00:11:56.060 the bartender witnessed it.

00:11:57.560 And he even contacted me,

00:11:59.060 uh,

00:11:59.460 through text messages saying,

00:12:01.140 I remember everything that happened that night.

00:12:02.900 And,

00:12:03.920 um,

00:12:04.320 I will,

00:12:04.760 he even offered to go look for the videotapes for me.

00:12:08.680 And,

00:12:09.240 uh,

00:12:10.040 then after some time,

00:12:11.680 this is a guy named Nick,

00:12:12.620 as I understand it,

00:12:13.480 Nick,

00:12:13.720 he's the bartender at Murph's,

00:12:15.360 not,

00:12:15.580 not your boss,

00:12:16.420 George from the other bar.

00:12:17.900 Nick,

00:12:18.360 Nick,

00:12:18.740 I'd only met like once or twice prior to that.

00:12:21.140 Um,

00:12:21.520 but I didn't know him from anybody and he witnessed it.

00:12:25.580 And he says,

00:12:26.400 I remember everything.

00:12:27.400 I have the text messages to prove it.

00:12:29.620 And he said,

00:12:31.080 I'll look and see if I can get the videotapes for you.

00:12:34.080 And then after I reached out,

00:12:35.960 I gave it a couple of days and I reached back out to him and he just started ghosting me.

00:12:39.520 I just,

00:12:40.340 um,

00:12:41.060 I couldn't get ahold of him anymore.

00:12:42.280 Did you ever ask to see whether there were videotapes?

00:12:47.180 Oh yeah,

00:12:48.000 absolutely.

00:12:49.260 And what'd you find out?

00:12:50.860 Nope.

00:12:51.660 They,

00:12:52.220 I mean,

00:12:52.560 I've heard whisperings through,

00:12:54.520 you know,

00:12:54.980 you hear rumors and stuff,

00:12:56.260 but I,

00:12:56.560 I don't know if it's a fact or not.

00:12:58.480 I can't speak to it,

00:12:59.580 but,

00:13:00.040 um,

00:13:00.920 I've heard that they were deleted.

00:13:03.080 So they had a video camera.

00:13:05.100 Oh,

00:13:05.500 they,

00:13:05.860 Murph's has cameras all in it.

00:13:07.320 Yes.

00:13:08.060 And so like through the lawsuit,

00:13:09.620 did you,

00:13:10.140 did you demand copies of any videotapes that they had?

00:13:13.500 We attempted to retrieve them and,

00:13:15.500 um,

00:13:16.460 there was none.

00:13:17.500 They said nothing.

00:13:18.300 Okay.

00:13:18.600 That they,

00:13:18.860 that they didn't have any.

00:13:20.300 So in addition to Nick,

00:13:22.320 the bartender who said to you,

00:13:24.380 I saw it all.

00:13:25.540 Um,

00:13:26.180 were there any other witnesses?

00:13:28.380 Um,

00:13:28.900 as far as in,

00:13:30.080 in the bar,

00:13:30.740 I,

00:13:31.080 I don't really recall.

00:13:32.400 Um,

00:13:32.740 those were the two that I know saw it all.

00:13:34.760 And they were like,

00:13:35.740 you know,

00:13:36.040 after it all happened,

00:13:38.420 everybody in town knew about it within a day.

00:13:40.840 Um,

00:13:41.260 so I don't know about in the bar,

00:13:44.300 but,

00:13:44.760 um,

00:13:45.120 Nick saw it from behind the bar.

00:13:46.780 He was right in front of us when it happened.

00:13:48.600 And George,

00:13:49.460 my old boss was standing right next to me.

00:13:52.780 And so can you set it up for me now?

00:13:54.640 I'm picturing you with your back against the bar,

00:13:56.980 which you further stumbled into when lemon shoved his fingers in your face.

00:14:02.900 Um,

00:14:03.460 so lemons presumably right in front of you,

00:14:05.840 your,

00:14:06.140 your eye to eye.

00:14:07.140 And where was George?

00:14:08.800 Because he's come forward as an eyewitness for you,

00:14:11.300 but where,

00:14:11.760 so where was he?

00:14:13.280 He was standing on my immediate right about two feet away.

00:14:16.680 So nothing impeding his view of what happened.

00:14:20.040 Oh,

00:14:20.340 he,

00:14:20.580 he lemon and I were like this and he was right next to,

00:14:23.860 he saw the whole interaction happen.

00:14:25.820 Okay.

00:14:26.080 So you and lemon are face to face.

00:14:27.580 George is basically the point of the triangle seeing it all.

00:14:31.380 And how many feet,

00:14:32.360 how many feet away was George from,

00:14:35.840 you and Don?

00:14:37.280 I mean,

00:14:38.060 one or two feet away.

00:14:39.760 He was standing right next to me.

00:14:41.300 And,

00:14:41.780 and was he intoxicated?

00:14:43.860 No,

00:14:44.360 I mean,

00:14:44.680 we,

00:14:45.000 we had gone to Montauk and one thing you don't want to do in the Hamptons is drive when you're drinking.

00:14:50.440 And so we just went down to Montauk and enjoyed the afternoon.

00:14:53.720 And then we came back to the Hamptons or to Sag Harbor.

00:14:57.460 And,

00:14:57.760 um,

00:14:58.600 no,

00:14:59.100 George maybe had one or two drinks with me throughout the day,

00:15:03.020 but this was,

00:15:04.000 we,

00:15:04.340 we left East Hampton earlier in the day,

00:15:07.440 went to Montauk,

00:15:08.280 enjoyed walking around.

00:15:09.780 And,

00:15:10.060 and,

00:15:10.380 and then we came back to Sag Harbor.

00:15:12.740 Okay.

00:15:13.300 So after this happens,

00:15:14.720 and I'm going to get to,

00:15:15.980 you know,

00:15:16.920 the feelings,

00:15:17.500 but after this happens,

00:15:19.220 you said you ran out,

00:15:20.340 did you run out the front door,

00:15:21.600 the back door?

00:15:23.080 What,

00:15:23.540 what happened?

00:15:24.260 Okay.

00:15:24.460 And why,

00:15:24.980 why the back door?

00:15:26.240 I just,

00:15:26.940 cause it was,

00:15:27.620 there was a clear path to my right.

00:15:29.440 I,

00:15:29.680 there was a pole to my left and there was a clear path to my right.

00:15:32.980 And it was just the quickest way for me to get out of that situation.

00:15:37.720 Was it crowded or was it sparse?

00:15:40.680 Well,

00:15:41.080 it was a Sunday night,

00:15:42.260 so it wasn't like a Friday or a Saturday,

00:15:44.300 but it was,

00:15:44.800 there was a lot of people in there.

00:15:45.920 Yes.

00:15:46.760 And do you remember seeing anyone as you ran out,

00:15:49.700 Don,

00:15:50.040 his friends or anyone else?

00:15:52.140 Honestly,

00:15:52.540 I was in a state of shock.

00:15:53.860 So I,

00:15:54.720 I wasn't paying attention to anybody else.

00:15:57.480 I ran out the back door,

00:15:59.120 sat on the AC unit and just sat there with my hands in my head.

00:16:02.140 And it was like,

00:16:02.520 Oh my God,

00:16:03.020 what just happened?

00:16:03.760 And then George followed me out and came up to me and he was like,

00:16:08.460 Oh my God,

00:16:09.240 what just happened?

00:16:10.240 And he was like,

00:16:10.740 I can't believe that.

00:16:11.720 And that's when I said to him,

00:16:13.240 should I go back in there and confront him?

00:16:15.080 And he said,

00:16:15.880 no,

00:16:16.080 you can't do that now.

00:16:17.560 But,

00:16:17.880 you know,

00:16:20.000 a lot of 99% of men would have reacted violently or aggressively.

00:16:23.860 When something like that happened to them.

00:16:25.520 And I've had to think about that every day.

00:16:27.920 And like,

00:16:28.400 you know,

00:16:28.560 what kind of self-respect do I have for myself?

00:16:30.580 I didn't stand up to that man,

00:16:31.840 but you know,

00:16:33.260 what would he,

00:16:34.420 what would the story have been distorted to if I had,

00:16:38.160 you know?

00:16:38.460 So this is how it played out.

00:16:42.140 And,

00:16:42.420 you know,

00:16:42.840 it is what it is.

00:16:44.600 There are lots of ways of standing up to someone and they don't have to

00:16:48.140 involve fists.

00:16:49.200 Sometimes they involve lawyers.

00:16:51.860 Can you just,

00:16:52.760 I don't want to skip past this and we're going to get to more of it later,

00:16:55.620 but what did,

00:16:58.960 what did you feel when he did that to you?

00:17:01.980 Do you remember in the moment what that felt like?

00:17:04.360 Disgust and insignificant and just degraded and humiliated.

00:17:11.460 And just, 0.98

00:17:13.040 I mean,

00:17:13.620 every emotion running through your body,

00:17:15.700 anger,

00:17:16.860 shame,

00:17:17.800 guilt.

00:17:18.460 I mean,

00:17:18.920 there's,

00:17:20.300 there's a plethora of emotions that go through you when something like that

00:17:24.200 happens,

00:17:24.600 especially being the new guy.

00:17:26.060 I'd only been in town for like a little over two weeks.

00:17:28.800 Now I'm the lemon drop guy.

00:17:30.800 Why shame?

00:17:34.080 Just because the feelings and like,

00:17:38.780 like disgust and what he did to me,

00:17:41.680 I like,

00:17:42.040 I just,

00:17:42.520 I didn't do anything to deserve that.

00:17:44.340 And I was just,

00:17:46.340 I mean,

00:17:46.580 I didn't ask for this.

00:17:47.680 I was being cordial to him.

00:17:49.200 I was offering to buy him a drink,

00:17:51.280 you know?

00:17:51.640 And if anything,

00:17:53.040 it was a failed attempt at humor,

00:17:54.800 you know?

00:17:55.220 And after he said,

00:17:56.820 no,

00:17:57.140 I said,

00:17:57.460 okay,

00:17:57.720 I'm sorry.

00:17:58.440 I apologized.

00:17:59.080 And I walked away and I thought that was the end of it.

00:18:01.520 And apparently not.

00:18:04.060 Do you have any idea what his motivation was,

00:18:07.560 you know,

00:18:07.940 an attempt to humiliate an attempt to come on to you?

00:18:12.380 Like,

00:18:12.680 do you have any idea?

00:18:14.500 I don't know.

00:18:15.240 I mean,

00:18:16.120 he was with two or three other men and they weren't his fiance or husband.

00:18:20.760 And because now I know what he looks like.

00:18:23.620 I can tell you he was not there,

00:18:25.280 but I can't speculate onto what he was thinking or feeling,

00:18:30.020 but I definitely felt that he was trying to belittle me and degrade me and

00:18:34.940 humiliate me in front of my peers with impunity and just without any care about

00:18:40.340 what the consequences it might have on him or the repercussions it might have on

00:18:44.660 me.

00:18:47.400 Dustin is not the only one telling this story.

00:18:50.180 George,

00:18:50.820 his friend and one-time boss has gone on the record with Fox news.com in an extraordinary

00:18:56.820 report,

00:18:57.560 which I am going to bring to you right after this break.

00:18:59.940 And we'll have more with Dustin on that and on CNN injecting itself into this

00:19:05.060 controversy and how NBC late night host,

00:19:07.720 Jimmy Fallon plays into the story.

00:19:09.740 Don't go away.

00:19:10.300 So I want to tell the audience that George with whom you'd only been working for a

00:19:22.300 couple of weeks.

00:19:22.880 It's not like you and George had had some long-term relationship.

00:19:25.860 He went on the record with Fox news.com in August of 2018 and said as follows.

00:19:31.040 Yes,

00:19:31.460 I managed Dustin at the old stove pub.

00:19:33.520 He was the bartender.

00:19:34.420 The two of us went out one night.

00:19:35.860 We were both standing there.

00:19:37.260 You said,

00:19:37.640 Hey,

00:19:37.780 there's Don Lemon.

00:19:38.580 When you went into Murph's,

00:19:39.580 he said,

00:19:40.440 you approached Lemon to strike up a conversation with him and offered to buy

00:19:43.040 Lemon a drink,

00:19:43.700 which he declined said a few minutes later,

00:19:45.980 Lemon came up to you.

00:19:47.540 And,

00:19:48.020 um,

00:19:48.900 this is a quote from George to Fox news.com.

00:19:51.520 Lemon has now come around the corner and is standing face to face with us.

00:19:55.180 There's a beam,

00:19:55.860 a pole in the place.

00:19:56.820 Don standing up against the pole face to face with Dustin.

00:19:59.480 I turn around and I'm standing right there between the two of them.

00:20:03.180 He is saying,

00:20:04.140 so you like me?

00:20:05.080 Is that why you're bothering me to Dustin?

00:20:07.540 And heist responds responded.

00:20:09.700 Nah,

00:20:09.940 man,

00:20:10.140 I just wanted to say what's up.

00:20:11.940 Uh,

00:20:12.420 Lemon then said something along the lines of,

00:20:14.980 is that why you're bothering me?

00:20:16.340 You want to F me?

00:20:17.720 Says Lemon appeared pretty drunk.

00:20:19.540 This is again,

00:20:20.140 George to Fox news.com.

00:20:21.400 And then quote,

00:20:22.300 put his hands down his pants inside his board shorts, 1.00

00:20:25.540 grabbed his genitals, 0.99

00:20:26.460 and then came out with two fingers and like clipped Dustin's nose up and down with two fingers asking, 0.99

00:20:32.340 do you like P word or D word?

00:20:35.340 I mean, 1.00

00:20:35.560 it's pussy or dick. 1.00

00:20:36.860 People heard it. 1.00

00:20:37.940 Uh,

00:20:38.140 Ganellis laughed and immediately mocked Dustin as gross because of Lemon.

00:20:43.160 But Dustin did not think it was a laughing,

00:20:45.180 laughing matter.

00:20:46.080 Says George.

00:20:46.780 He was quote in shock saying,

00:20:48.880 bro,

00:20:49.060 did that just happen? 0.71

00:20:50.060 That was disgusting.

00:20:51.600 And then George admits that,

00:20:53.540 that you were regularly teased about the,

00:20:55.460 about the incident,

00:20:56.160 including by George who said,

00:20:57.840 I feel bad now.

00:20:59.020 He said,

00:20:59.620 everyone knew Dustin and knew what happened to him.

00:21:01.960 And every time we went out,

00:21:03.060 every bartender would offer him a lemon drop shot,

00:21:05.200 making fun of him. 1.00

00:21:06.180 He got shit for it. 0.99

00:21:07.820 He was messed up from it. 1.00

00:21:09.320 Says George,

00:21:09.920 this is the only thing he could talk about and not in a good way.

00:21:14.600 Does that accurately convey what happened?

00:21:17.860 Absolutely.

00:21:19.200 Is it upsetting to hear?

00:21:21.540 Yeah.

00:21:22.080 I mean,

00:21:22.660 it's just,

00:21:23.420 it's a reminder of how bad of a summer that was.

00:21:27.200 And,

00:21:27.460 uh,

00:21:28.480 I mean,

00:21:29.040 you know,

00:21:30.280 what was I going to do?

00:21:31.280 Like go back to Florida with my tail between my legs or,

00:21:34.200 or just laugh it off with everybody.

00:21:35.780 And I just,

00:21:36.480 I,

00:21:36.700 I tried to stick it out as long as I could.

00:21:38.980 And eventually I just was like,

00:21:40.720 I'm not,

00:21:41.100 I can't take this anymore.

00:21:41.980 So I left sooner than I was anticipating,

00:21:44.660 but it just got old.

00:21:46.480 You know,

00:21:46.760 I was sick and tired of being the lemon drop guy and people snickering behind

00:21:50.800 my back.

00:21:51.300 And I mean,

00:21:52.080 I have a pretty,

00:21:53.280 like,

00:21:53.520 I'm pretty tough when it comes to things like that,

00:21:55.700 but I'm in a new town.

00:21:57.220 I'm the new guy.

00:21:58.220 And now I'm known as the,

00:21:59.780 like this lemon.

00:22:02.200 Encounter.

00:22:02.760 And that's basically the,

00:22:05.320 the butt of everybody's joke.

00:22:07.080 People would come into my restaurant and order lemon drops and put their two

00:22:10.960 fingers up.

00:22:11.660 And just,

00:22:12.200 it was just an ongoing thing that we dealt with all summer.

00:22:15.680 What do you say,

00:22:16.720 Dustin,

00:22:16.980 to people who say,

00:22:18.040 get over it.

00:22:20.140 Yeah.

00:22:20.500 Whatever.

00:22:21.100 Is it really that big a deal?

00:22:23.440 Until something happens to you like this,

00:22:25.780 which I hope it doesn't,

00:22:26.820 you don't know how you're going to react.

00:22:28.320 And I'm not going to let them trivialize like what I've been going through

00:22:31.800 because not only was the encounter horrible and disgusting,

00:22:35.820 but the,

00:22:36.760 the aftermath of what happened has been a daily challenge for me.

00:22:41.300 And,

00:22:41.780 you know,

00:22:42.600 your life doesn't change when,

00:22:45.780 when you speak out,

00:22:47.820 your life changes when the assault happens,

00:22:50.180 you know,

00:22:50.700 and my,

00:22:51.340 my life is forever changed.

00:22:52.840 And I'm just,

00:22:54.180 I just want to get this behind me.

00:22:55.560 You know,

00:22:55.840 I want to be happy again.

00:22:56.880 I don't want to have to think about Don Lemon ever again.

00:22:59.180 Mm-hmm.

00:23:00.360 No,

00:23:00.660 many people feel that way.

00:23:03.580 Is it true that quote,

00:23:05.020 everyone knew?

00:23:05.940 Cause I know that there is a story involving celebrities like Jimmy Fallon,

00:23:10.280 but there were a lot of people who knew and what happened with Fallon in

00:23:13.760 particular?

00:23:15.140 Well,

00:23:15.360 Jimmy was one of our regulars at the restaurant that I worked at and he would,

00:23:19.520 he's awesome.

00:23:20.140 He's stuff of legend in the Hamptons.

00:23:22.300 He,

00:23:22.640 he's really good guy.

00:23:25.340 And he would sing karaoke with at our restaurant.

00:23:27.960 He would you know,

00:23:29.180 we wouldn't even charge him and he would make us charge him for a diet Coke.

00:23:33.100 And he'd leave us a $500 tip just because that's who he is.

00:23:36.220 And he happened to be in my restaurant the very next day.

00:23:39.780 And my staff was all running around saying,

00:23:42.240 Jimmy,

00:23:42.900 you're not going to believe what happened to Dustin last night.

00:23:45.200 And so he knows what happened.

00:23:47.180 And when they told him what happened,

00:23:49.260 he put his hands on his face and was like,

00:23:51.280 Oh my God,

00:23:51.820 he can't do that.

00:23:52.640 He's all about the me too.

00:23:53.940 What is he thinking?

00:23:55.340 So he's aware of what happened.

00:23:57.660 And he knows this story.

00:23:59.140 I mean,

00:23:59.440 he,

00:23:59.780 he was there the day after and saw me not very happy about it,

00:24:05.200 but also just trying to go with the flow because again,

00:24:08.800 what was I going to do?

00:24:09.880 You know,

00:24:10.900 leave, 0.75

00:24:11.540 leave the Hamptons and go home,

00:24:14.880 you know,

00:24:15.380 so I stick it out.

00:24:16.380 You tried to make a go of it.

00:24:17.420 So,

00:24:18.060 so what about that?

00:24:19.240 Because I mean,

00:24:20.240 are people like Nick,

00:24:22.260 the bartender,

00:24:23.160 anybody else in the restaurant coming forward,

00:24:25.960 volunteering to be witnesses at trial?

00:24:28.120 Because,

00:24:28.680 you know,

00:24:29.000 even,

00:24:29.380 even a Jimmy Fallon who saw you the day after could potentially be

00:24:32.140 relevant to,

00:24:32.900 you know,

00:24:33.300 a trial.

00:24:33.980 Are people raising their hands?

00:24:35.740 Are they agreeing to show up?

00:24:36.880 So typically in the Hamptons,

00:24:39.700 celebrities are protected and,

00:24:43.040 you know,

00:24:43.300 but 99% of them don't sexually assault people in public in front of

00:24:48.020 everybody.

00:24:49.160 But as far as the staff and the other people that,

00:24:53.580 you know,

00:24:53.780 Nick and a few other people that witnessed it,

00:24:56.280 they're worried about their jobs being jeopardized and being blacklisted in

00:25:01.400 the Hamptons because they spoke up against a celebrity.

00:25:05.340 And so,

00:25:06.300 you know,

00:25:07.280 and I don't blame them.

00:25:08.800 One of the witnesses lost a job during COVID.

00:25:12.700 He was working for a celebrity as an executive chef and he got fired when

00:25:18.160 they found out that he was,

00:25:19.420 you know,

00:25:20.840 had spoken out against lemon.

00:25:23.220 So that's George.

00:25:25.720 Yeah.

00:25:26.360 And so they,

00:25:27.260 they attack people that speak up against them and they,

00:25:31.400 you know,

00:25:31.700 a lot of times these people are protected,

00:25:33.460 but you know,

00:25:34.640 most times they don't do what he did to me. 0.74

00:25:37.380 That's disgusting.

00:25:38.360 It's the power imbalance.

00:25:39.500 I mean,

00:25:39.800 in,

00:25:40.120 in today's day and age,

00:25:41.280 you know,

00:25:42.160 people look at you based on power or disempowerment,

00:25:45.260 uh,

00:25:45.840 based on the color of your skin,

00:25:47.300 your gender,

00:25:48.740 your sexuality.

00:25:49.880 But in this situation,

00:25:51.280 the person who is in minority groups in most of those categories is

00:25:55.980 actually the powerful one.

00:25:57.040 And you are the one who has relatively little power.

00:25:59.520 And that is why people are reluctant and afraid.

00:26:03.200 Absolutely.

00:26:04.140 I mean,

00:26:04.480 I,

00:26:05.100 I'm nobody to them,

00:26:06.480 you know,

00:26:06.740 and they,

00:26:07.440 uh,

00:26:07.840 the media especially is,

00:26:09.700 is,

00:26:10.200 is designed and to protect these people.

00:26:13.140 They,

00:26:13.580 they have the ability to control,

00:26:14.960 uh,

00:26:15.500 the narrative.

00:26:16.160 And,

00:26:16.780 um,

00:26:17.380 when this all went public,

00:26:18.520 um,

00:26:19.140 they swept it under the rug and,

00:26:21.260 uh,

00:26:21.980 nobody wanted to speak up against it,

00:26:24.200 even though there's credible,

00:26:25.280 you know,

00:26:26.020 witnesses and allegations that,

00:26:27.660 um,

00:26:28.620 that unfolded.

00:26:29.620 And,

00:26:30.020 you know,

00:26:30.720 I'm just brushed to the side.

00:26:33.760 Oh,

00:26:33.900 I mean,

00:26:34.280 honestly,

00:26:34.880 there,

00:26:35.120 there was,

00:26:36.020 there was a paper thin lawsuit filed against some folks at Fox news,

00:26:42.540 some personalities there,

00:26:43.600 and it's since been dismissed,

00:26:45.240 but for the,

00:26:46.860 you know,

00:26:47.020 when it first came out,

00:26:47.880 it got so much coverage because people love to see a Fox news anchors name on the receiving end of one of these charges.

00:26:54.860 Um,

00:26:55.820 but this case,

00:26:57.060 very different reaction in the media,

00:26:59.040 despite the fact that,

00:27:00.840 as I understand it,

00:27:01.600 Don Lemon has tried twice to get your allegations dismissed.

00:27:04.880 He's failed both times.

00:27:06.400 And unlike any of those other cases,

00:27:08.380 you have an eyewitness,

00:27:10.280 George,

00:27:10.700 who has gone on record with the media.

00:27:13.600 And is prepared to take the stand at trial.

00:27:15.840 You tell me and testify on your behalf.

00:27:18.960 Well,

00:27:19.560 sexual assault is not a partisan issue.

00:27:21.780 I mean,

00:27:22.120 it happens to all walks of life,

00:27:24.100 including men.

00:27:25.100 You know,

00:27:25.420 there's a stigma about speaking out on sexual assault.

00:27:28.260 Will I be believed?

00:27:29.400 Will,

00:27:29.720 you know,

00:27:30.000 will it even matter?

00:27:31.240 In fact,

00:27:31.760 Don Lemon has a whole segment where in 2018 that I saw,

00:27:36.440 and it was one of the things that propelled me to speak up where he says there is no standard way of reporting a sexual assault.

00:27:43.080 And,

00:27:43.720 you know,

00:27:43.840 he goes on to just basically try to be a champion of sexual assault survivors.

00:27:48.600 And he claims to be one.

00:27:50.060 Well,

00:27:50.400 if he really is a survivor,

00:27:52.260 he's got some issues that he's never really dealt with.

00:27:54.540 But,

00:27:54.820 you know,

00:27:55.620 it's dangerous to only report one side.

00:27:58.360 It's the reason survivors don't come up and speak out because they fear of retaliation.

00:28:03.060 And anyone who's experienced sexual assault in any situation should feel,

00:28:08.120 you know,

00:28:09.820 empowered to be able to speak up against this stuff.

00:28:12.880 But unless you,

00:28:14.060 your idea,

00:28:14.780 your views and your ideas and align with,

00:28:18.340 with,

00:28:19.160 you know,

00:28:19.460 everything,

00:28:19.980 then you're not,

00:28:20.700 it's,

00:28:21.220 it's really,

00:28:22.060 you don't know if you're going to get,

00:28:23.600 if it's going to get any air or any,

00:28:25.600 any press about it.

00:28:26.620 And it's,

00:28:27.040 it's like Harvey Weinstein or the Matt Lowers of the world,

00:28:30.280 you know,

00:28:30.540 like it's,

00:28:31.860 it's crazy.

00:28:33.080 I mean,

00:28:33.360 you know,

00:28:33.700 this firsthand from your experience.

00:28:35.660 So.

00:28:36.340 Yeah.

00:28:37.020 But although it's,

00:28:37.820 it's interesting because,

00:28:38.960 you know,

00:28:39.100 when I got sort of pulled into the me too movement before it really was a thing,

00:28:44.660 you know,

00:28:46.660 the,

00:28:46.900 the person I was opposed to,

00:28:49.180 or the person I was essentially,

00:28:50.340 you know,

00:28:50.860 asked about was Roger Ailes and the media was delighted to report on Roger Ailes.

00:28:56.820 Having this kind of a history delighted,

00:28:59.120 but he was an old white rich Republican,

00:29:04.740 right? 0.86

00:29:05.360 And not a CNN star who happens to be black, 0.94

00:29:09.100 who's openly gay, 0.89

00:29:10.400 who calls himself a social justice warrior.

00:29:13.360 So the,

00:29:14.120 the power dynamic here is much different in terms of the way the media now ranks people,

00:29:18.400 the way they value people.

00:29:20.080 But I do want to talk to you about that moment.

00:29:21.840 Cause I know that they're almost a,

00:29:23.780 almost a year or so.

00:29:25.560 I don't know,

00:29:25.800 it went by from the time of the assault to when you filed the lawsuit.

00:29:28.840 Was it about 12 months?

00:29:30.580 Correct.

00:29:31.380 Okay.

00:29:31.840 Yeah.

00:29:32.100 So I went,

00:29:33.500 after I came back from the Hamptons early,

00:29:35.900 I was in Florida for a few months and my grandfather had a heart attack and he was in

00:29:42.140 and out of the hospital.

00:29:42.880 And I just didn't feel it was appropriate to explain to my family when they were dealing

00:29:46.600 with my grandfather being in ICU.

00:29:49.460 But I was actually in the hospital one night and flipping through the channels and Don Lemon

00:29:56.900 came on the television and it was the night that he was speaking out on the Justice Kavanaugh.

00:30:02.760 And that's when he started going on and on about what sexual assault survivors go through

00:30:06.840 and how he,

00:30:07.520 you know,

00:30:08.420 there is no standard way and reporting it and so on and so forth.

00:30:13.000 And as you can imagine,

00:30:14.900 it just infuriated me.

00:30:17.740 And,

00:30:17.960 you know,

00:30:18.860 I think we have that Dustin.

00:30:19.960 Let me,

00:30:20.180 let me stand you by because I believe that we have that clip.

00:30:23.440 Let's watch.

00:30:24.000 There is no standard way survivors talk about sexual assault.

00:30:30.240 It isn't always a police phone call and a rape kit or a report filed with HR.

00:30:36.860 Sometimes they don't talk at all for years,

00:30:39.960 even decades.

00:30:41.480 Sometimes a little comes out in a conversation with a friend,

00:30:44.240 a partner,

00:30:44.860 or a doctor.

00:30:45.780 And sometimes it comes out all at once.

00:30:49.300 Why is it so hard to talk about?

00:30:51.680 Well,

00:30:52.200 part of it is fear.

00:30:54.000 And part of it is doubt.

00:30:56.540 Will I be believed?

00:30:58.280 Will I be blamed?

00:31:00.180 Will I have evidence?

00:31:02.160 Do I have to relive what happened?

00:31:05.480 Will everyone judge me?

00:31:07.960 And if I speak out,

00:31:09.540 will it even matter?

00:31:11.460 People are tricky characters.

00:31:14.760 Innocent until proven guilty must remain the law of the land.

00:31:18.860 But at the same time,

00:31:20.300 some guilty people do cloak themselves in innocence.

00:31:24.180 Remember,

00:31:24.600 after all,

00:31:25.200 Bill Cosby was America's dad not so long ago.

00:31:29.480 Are we interested in truth?

00:31:32.100 Are we interested in healing?

00:31:34.680 Or is there,

00:31:36.120 as there always seems to be these days,

00:31:38.060 a political game being played with people's lives?

00:31:41.660 Are we interested in truth,

00:31:44.480 Don?

00:31:44.940 Are we interested in truth?

00:31:47.980 Yeah,

00:31:48.520 I mean,

00:31:48.800 that right there was pretty much the defining factor of me deciding to stand up for myself.

00:31:54.700 And not too long after that, 0.99

00:31:57.020 he goes on to say that white men are the biggest terroristic threat in America. 0.99

00:32:00.520 And meanwhile, 0.99

00:32:01.260 he's terrorizing me in front of all my peers in the Hamptons.

00:32:04.840 So the hypocrisy is just beyond me.

00:32:08.200 And not too long after that is when I spoke up to my loved ones and shared with them what has happened to me.

00:32:14.140 And my own mom,

00:32:15.720 after,

00:32:16.660 you know,

00:32:17.620 obviously getting very distraught,

00:32:19.860 told me,

00:32:20.400 she said,

00:32:20.760 Dustin,

00:32:21.180 you have to stand up for yourself.

00:32:22.620 You're going to carry this with you the rest of your life unless you do.

00:32:26.800 And,

00:32:27.060 you know,

00:32:28.400 if you would have did to him what he did to you,

00:32:30.460 you would have been arrested,

00:32:31.600 prosecuted,

00:32:32.220 and registered as a sex offender.

00:32:34.260 And,

00:32:34.740 you know,

00:32:34.860 they would have crucified me, 0.98

00:32:36.160 called me some white supremacist. 0.99

00:32:38.080 And,

00:32:38.480 but I showed restraint in a very difficult situation.

00:32:42.080 And he took that situation to degrade me and humiliate me.

00:32:46.860 And I had to do something.

00:32:49.040 I couldn't just let this go on.

00:32:52.040 So you,

00:32:52.660 that clip from Don was in September of 18,

00:32:55.060 a couple of months after this alleged incident.

00:32:57.040 And by the following summer,

00:32:58.180 you had filed your complaint.

00:33:00.660 Have you ever filed a lawsuit before?

00:33:03.360 Well,

00:33:03.900 I had,

00:33:04.560 you know,

00:33:05.140 I was working for a company one time and they owed me a bunch of money.

00:33:08.480 So I had to,

00:33:09.100 I had to seek representation on that,

00:33:11.460 but that was a whole separate incident.

00:33:13.360 Okay.

00:33:13.720 So that time and this time.

00:33:16.140 Yes.

00:33:16.600 These are the only two times.

00:33:18.220 So in the lawsuit,

00:33:20.100 let me,

00:33:20.500 let me ask you,

00:33:21.080 it's a,

00:33:21.320 it's a lawsuit for assault and battery,

00:33:23.000 emotional infliction of,

00:33:24.800 intentional infliction of emotional distress as well.

00:33:28.080 And the complaint alleges that you,

00:33:30.420 you've been quote,

00:33:31.140 emotionally devastated,

00:33:32.220 that this has caused even suicidal ideations on your part and placed you in fear for your safety.

00:33:39.120 Does that overstate things?

00:33:42.160 Well,

00:33:42.640 in the beginning,

00:33:43.760 not at all.

00:33:44.980 I've dealt with all kinds of depression and anxiety.

00:33:48.760 I mean,

00:33:48.960 I'm dealing with something this serious and a powerful man that,

00:33:54.100 you know,

00:33:54.360 and I'm reading stuff online about people saying that I'm going to get murdered before it ever gets to trial,

00:33:59.320 or I'm going to get Epstein or I'm going to get Epstein or I'm going to get Epstein or I better watch my back.

00:34:03.240 And,

00:34:03.900 you know,

00:34:04.100 I've had to take measures to protect myself.

00:34:06.580 And I've,

00:34:07.580 you know,

00:34:07.860 basically been living in the shadows for,

00:34:11.080 since this all became public.

00:34:13.660 So you are suing the complaint.

00:34:17.080 I don't know if the complaint actually alleges this number,

00:34:19.000 but your,

00:34:19.360 your,

00:34:19.760 your lawyers at least have made public that the demand is for $1.5 million.

00:34:24.380 I know,

00:34:25.000 I know your lawyers came up with that number,

00:34:26.680 but has he offered to settle this case with you for any amount?

00:34:31.180 Yeah.

00:34:31.780 Yes.

00:34:32.140 So typically in a,

00:34:33.620 in a negotiation time,

00:34:35.060 it's unethical to talk about money,

00:34:36.880 but CNN quickly labeled me an extortionist and said I was trying to get $1.5 million from him.

00:34:43.340 And,

00:34:43.780 and that's not exactly accurate.

00:34:46.220 I,

00:34:46.660 my attorneys came up with a number.

00:34:48.220 I told them in the beginning there,

00:34:50.320 you know,

00:34:50.620 money is not what I'm after here.

00:34:53.200 I just want to not live the rest of my life and regret and have a clear,

00:34:56.680 conscious and have closure from this situation.

00:34:59.280 I don't want to carry this weight with me forever.

00:35:01.300 I mean,

00:35:01.620 there's no amount of,

00:35:02.600 not a money that cancels out the emotional toll and the fifth sick,

00:35:07.140 psychological toll that you go through when you're dealing with stuff like this.

00:35:11.540 And,

00:35:12.080 you know,

00:35:13.240 he's made three separate attempts,

00:35:15.400 almost at a half a million dollars to try and get me to be quiet,

00:35:19.340 but my silence can't be bought.

00:35:21.140 This is not about me trying to get money.

00:35:24.780 So he did,

00:35:25.180 he made three settlement offers to,

00:35:26.860 to you near the half million Mark.

00:35:30.240 Correct.

00:35:31.380 And is there any amount that you would take to settle the case?

00:35:35.780 At this point,

00:35:36.720 I just want my life back.

00:35:38.020 Um,

00:35:38.680 you know,

00:35:39.220 without,

00:35:39.700 I don't see any kind of settlement happening without,

00:35:43.620 uh,

00:35:44.140 an admission of guilt or,

00:35:45.620 um,

00:35:46.560 uh,

00:35:46.780 an apology,

00:35:47.360 but I don't,

00:35:48.700 I mean,

00:35:49.000 I seriously doubt with his ego and pride that that's going to happen,

00:35:53.460 but,

00:35:53.760 um,

00:35:54.440 that would be a start.

00:35:55.320 If he said he was sorry and admitted that he messed up,

00:35:59.720 you know,

00:36:00.420 as much the,

00:36:02.180 the amount of emotions that I've gone through,

00:36:03.620 it's like a rollercoaster.

00:36:04.540 You go up and down and highs and lows.

00:36:06.300 And,

00:36:06.540 um,

00:36:07.620 as much as I don't really like him,

00:36:10.260 um,

00:36:11.340 in order for me to get through this and to not carry this weight with me the

00:36:14.500 rest of my life,

00:36:15.120 I have to eventually forgive him.

00:36:16.660 And even Don Lemon is,

00:36:19.420 is much as I don't agree with anything he really says has,

00:36:23.340 you know,

00:36:23.580 can be redeemed.

00:36:24.580 And,

00:36:25.100 you know,

00:36:25.420 and hopefully he gets his life together.

00:36:27.640 Hope this is a reckoning for him.

00:36:29.540 This,

00:36:30.100 well,

00:36:30.200 it's not,

00:36:30.860 it's not because we've seen Don Lemon on camera since this happened before

00:36:35.480 this happened.

00:36:36.420 And,

00:36:36.980 you know,

00:36:37.100 I've said before on this program,

00:36:38.260 I've made no secret of,

00:36:39.680 of my view that he sees himself as the moral arbiter of us all.

00:36:44.360 Um,

00:36:44.840 and that is one of the many reasons why your story is interesting because as

00:36:49.060 so often is the case,

00:36:50.140 those who mean to lecture us the most on camera from these,

00:36:53.460 you know,

00:36:54.200 highfalutin anchor chairs tend to have something that they don't want us to

00:36:58.920 know.

00:36:59.260 And in his case,

00:37:00.180 this may be one,

00:37:01.200 I don't know of how many,

00:37:02.180 but I,

00:37:03.000 we put together just a little flavor for the audience of Don Lemon and his,

00:37:07.600 his moral preening,

00:37:09.980 his mocking of half of America and his,

00:37:13.760 his obvious high opinion of himself when it comes to morals and doing the

00:37:20.860 right thing.

00:37:21.700 Here's a little bit of that.

00:37:23.460 Donald Trump couldn't find Ukraine on a map.

00:37:25.680 If you had the letter you and a picture of an actual physical crane next to

00:37:29.680 it,

00:37:29.820 he knows that this is,

00:37:31.260 you know,

00:37:31.740 an,

00:37:31.920 an administration defined by ignorance of the world. 1.00

00:37:35.100 The people who ate and abetted Trump are stupid, 1.00

00:37:37.420 have lived in several red States. 1.00

00:37:39.520 There are a lot of friends who I had to really get rid of.

00:37:41.840 Credulous boomer Rube demo that backs Donald Trump,

00:37:44.800 um,

00:37:45.420 that,

00:37:45.720 that wants to think that,

00:37:46.760 that,

00:37:47.320 that Donald Trump's a smart one in there.

00:37:49.180 Y'all, 1.00

00:37:49.540 y'all elitist are dumb. 1.00

00:37:51.920 They're taking down the statues. 1.00

00:37:53.660 And crime is rising.

00:37:54.820 Crime is rising.

00:37:55.680 As they defund police.

00:37:56.120 Oh my gosh.

00:37:56.820 It's so bad.

00:37:58.040 Voted for Trump.

00:37:59.160 You voted for the person who the Klan supported.

00:38:03.320 You voted for the person who Nazis support. 0.58

00:38:07.120 You elitist with your geography and your maps and your spelling,

00:38:10.680 even though my math and you're reading.

00:38:13.180 If you're not going to get vaccinated,

00:38:15.200 you don't want to social distance.

00:38:16.520 You don't want to wear a mask.

00:38:17.660 Then maybe you don't want to go to the hospital when you get sick. 0.98

00:38:20.880 We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men. 0.95

00:38:28.780 Your geography, 0.95

00:38:30.240 knowing other countries,

00:38:31.660 sipping your latte.

00:38:33.400 All those lines on the map.

00:38:37.480 Only they may lead us to know where Ukraine is.

00:38:39.680 I think we have to stop coddling people when it comes to this and the vaccine saying,

00:38:44.180 oh,

00:38:44.720 you can't shame them. 1.00

00:38:46.240 You can't call them stupid. 1.00

00:38:47.460 You can't call them silly. 1.00

00:38:48.260 Yes, 1.00

00:38:49.120 they are.

00:38:49.720 The people who are not getting vaccines,

00:38:52.200 who are believing the lies on the internet instead of science.

00:38:55.680 It's time to start shaming them.

00:38:57.180 What else?

00:38:57.660 Or leave them behind.

00:38:59.740 That was good.

00:39:02.200 Sorry.

00:39:03.080 Rick,

00:39:03.380 that was a good one.

00:39:04.340 I needed that.

00:39:06.740 What has it been like for you to see him on the air night after night saying things like that?

00:39:12.580 Just watching that montage.

00:39:14.180 Like makes me.

00:39:16.300 So like,

00:39:17.220 it just does something to me that I can't even.

00:39:20.440 I mean,

00:39:21.160 the man.

00:39:23.540 His moral compass is points right into the gutter.

00:39:27.520 I mean,

00:39:27.880 the things that he says,

00:39:29.300 I don't know if it's just marching orders from Jeff Zucker.

00:39:32.620 And,

00:39:33.220 you know,

00:39:33.900 because you look at the people that he works with, 0.98

00:39:35.800 Jeffrey Toobin masturbating on, 0.97

00:39:38.140 on zoom and, 0.98

00:39:39.240 and Chris Cuomo,

00:39:40.820 you know,

00:39:41.400 he had a producer that came out and said that she,

00:39:44.180 that he assaulted her.

00:39:46.520 Um,

00:39:46.960 you,

00:39:47.140 you just,

00:39:47.740 this is who these people are,

00:39:49.420 you know?

00:39:49.760 And it's just,

00:39:50.440 it's really sad that there's some people out there in the world that really take what they're saying as,

00:39:55.980 as the truth.

00:39:56.760 And because it's, 0.54

00:39:57.560 it's disgusting.

00:40:00.320 Up next,

00:40:01.040 I'm going to ask us on whether he's taken a polygraph and also why he thinks CNN,

00:40:06.180 which bizarrely has inserted itself in the middle of this.

00:40:09.720 What does CNN have to do with this?

00:40:11.040 Don Lemon wasn't even arguably on company dime when this alleged incident take took place.

00:40:15.220 So what are they doing?

00:40:16.260 Why are they injecting themselves into this?

00:40:18.340 Um,

00:40:18.660 we'll talk about their role in it and why Dustin says that they are complicit.

00:40:22.360 Uh,

00:40:22.720 that's in two minutes.

00:40:23.960 Uh,

00:40:24.200 first though,

00:40:24.760 I want to tell you everyone that you can listen to the Megan Kelly show live on Sirius XM triumph channel 111 every weekday at noon East.

00:40:31.420 Uh,

00:40:32.180 and if you want to check out the full video show or just clips,

00:40:34.800 you can do so by subscribing to my YouTube channel,

00:40:37.120 youtube.com slash Megan Kelly.

00:40:39.980 And there you can see some of the pictures that Dustin gave us in this case.

00:40:43.400 Uh,

00:40:43.840 or if you prefer an audio podcast,

00:40:45.940 go ahead and subscribe and download on Apple,

00:40:47.880 Spotify,

00:40:48.620 Pandora,

00:40:49.060 Stitcher,

00:40:49.700 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:40:51.100 It's an easy way of sharing the show.

00:40:52.360 Just in case your friends or family missed it when it aired live on triumph.

00:40:56.200 Uh,

00:40:56.560 and by the way,

00:40:57.080 on the podcast version,

00:40:57.980 you can check out our full archives with now more than a hundred,

00:41:01.420 95 shows edging up on our 200th show since we launched launched last September of 2020.

00:41:07.920 Uh,

00:41:08.240 okay.

00:41:08.460 Pass back to Dustin in one second.

00:41:15.300 Dustin,

00:41:15.900 um,

00:41:16.140 have you guys engaged in any sort of arbitration or mediation prior to this trial?

00:41:21.100 Uh,

00:41:21.320 yeah,

00:41:21.580 there was negotiations going on with,

00:41:23.980 um,

00:41:24.340 you know,

00:41:24.940 settlement attempt and everything.

00:41:26.700 And,

00:41:27.580 um,

00:41:28.200 at the,

00:41:29.220 um,

00:41:30.060 at the beginning of all of it going,

00:41:31.420 public,

00:41:31.860 I,

00:41:32.640 um,

00:41:33.000 went and took a polygraph and produced that to them.

00:41:36.580 And,

00:41:36.940 uh,

00:41:38.200 but it just didn't work.

00:41:39.860 It didn't,

00:41:40.220 it fell through.

00:41:41.200 Well,

00:41:41.600 what happened?

00:41:42.000 Did you take the polygraph?

00:41:43.460 Yeah.

00:41:43.900 I,

00:41:44.060 um,

00:41:44.440 went down and if you've ever taken a polygraph before,

00:41:47.160 you know,

00:41:47.460 how nerve wracking that is.

00:41:48.620 And I went down to Fort Lauderdale and got plugged up to this whole machine.

00:41:52.920 And,

00:41:53.360 um,

00:41:54.260 as the guy was plugging me in,

00:41:55.680 I was shaking a little bit and he said,

00:41:57.360 don't worry if,

00:41:58.200 if it was based on nerves,

00:41:59.580 everybody would fail. 0.99

00:42:00.400 And I told him I'm not shit. 0.98

00:42:02.340 I'm not nervous because I'm not telling the truth. 0.95

00:42:04.240 I'm just nervous because I've never done this before.

00:42:06.040 And,

00:42:06.800 uh,

00:42:07.260 I,

00:42:07.560 I did the polygraph.

00:42:08.640 And when,

00:42:09.160 when I finished,

00:42:09.860 he said,

00:42:10.260 there's,

00:42:10.980 you know,

00:42:11.600 technically there's no such thing as a perfect polygraph,

00:42:13.900 but you're about as damn close to perfect as possible.

00:42:16.000 And it's obvious to me that,

00:42:17.800 uh,

00:42:18.980 you,

00:42:19.320 this has affected you very much.

00:42:21.360 And,

00:42:22.020 uh,

00:42:22.220 I hope you get justice.

00:42:24.300 Wow.

00:42:24.860 And do you know whether your lawyers provided a copy of that to the other side?

00:42:30.000 I,

00:42:30.820 to my knowledge,

00:42:31.500 yes.

00:42:32.020 I mean,

00:42:32.280 this was part of the negotiation in the beginning to,

00:42:35.000 you know,

00:42:35.180 before,

00:42:35.640 uh,

00:42:36.360 we ended up filing the claim.

00:42:38.400 Yeah.

00:42:38.640 And just to,

00:42:39.520 not to get legal on you,

00:42:40.540 but mediation and arbitration are two terms of art.

00:42:44.500 You know,

00:42:44.780 that you do have like a professional mediator trying to settle the dispute or a professional

00:42:48.640 arbitrator where it's like a mini trial.

00:42:50.940 Those are two different things from just a negotiation attempting a settlement.

00:42:55.240 So did you mean to say yes to an official mediation or arbitration?

00:43:00.180 To,

00:43:00.800 to my knowledge,

00:43:01.460 I don't know of any of that.

00:43:03.040 Okay.

00:43:03.600 Okay.

00:43:03.860 Yeah.

00:43:04.020 So there was a,

00:43:04.520 there was settlement discussions.

00:43:05.540 Now,

00:43:05.940 do you know whether he has sat for a deposition?

00:43:09.600 Um,

00:43:10.180 I think,

00:43:10.900 I believe so.

00:43:11.560 Yes.

00:43:12.140 Um,

00:43:12.360 it was very short and sweet.

00:43:14.740 Um,

00:43:15.080 he,

00:43:15.480 he's failed to produce a lot of discovery stuff that we've asked for.

00:43:19.000 Um,

00:43:19.700 basically has the,

00:43:20.800 I'm not gonna,

00:43:22.100 and you're not going to make me kind of attitude.

00:43:24.400 Mm hmm.

00:43:25.000 I assume to your knowledge,

00:43:26.540 he has not gone under a polygraph examination.

00:43:30.000 Oh,

00:43:30.580 I highly doubt it.

00:43:32.320 Mm hmm.

00:43:33.060 And can I ask you about CNN and its role in this?

00:43:36.040 You're,

00:43:36.820 you have sued Don Lemon,

00:43:38.900 just Don Lemon,

00:43:39.700 right?

00:43:40.620 Yep.

00:43:41.440 You have not sued CNN.

00:43:43.140 No.

00:43:44.080 Yeah.

00:43:44.400 Because you can't,

00:43:45.360 he didn't do this in even arguably in his role as a CNN host.

00:43:48.400 It's not something,

00:43:49.880 you know,

00:43:50.040 if you were sitting across from him on the set while he was interviewing you and he did this,

00:43:53.440 that'd be one thing.

00:43:54.460 Um,

00:43:54.860 but no,

00:43:55.320 so you've sued Don Lemon.

00:43:56.760 And yet,

00:43:57.960 what do I see in the press?

00:43:59.380 But CNN and its spokesperson commenting on this,

00:44:03.720 denying,

00:44:04.060 uh,

00:44:04.900 your account,

00:44:05.780 uh,

00:44:06.340 in a statement to Fox news saying that you seem to bear animosity towards CNN quote,

00:44:11.440 the plaintiff in this lawsuit has previously displayed a pattern of contempt for CNN on his social media accounts.

00:44:17.120 We'll get to that in one second.

00:44:18.400 This claim follows his unsuccessful threats and demands for an exorbitant amount of money from Don Lemon.

00:44:24.660 Don categorically denies these claims.

00:44:27.380 And this matter does not merit any further comment at this time.

00:44:30.560 Let me just tell you something,

00:44:31.480 Dustin.

00:44:32.140 Um,

00:44:32.720 I don't know what the hell CNN is doing,

00:44:34.160 injecting itself in this,

00:44:35.160 making a comment on Don's behalf.

00:44:36.740 This is Don's problem.

00:44:38.060 This is not CNN's problem.

00:44:39.420 It may be their problem,

00:44:40.340 you know,

00:44:41.160 in the,

00:44:41.460 in the minds of viewers,

00:44:42.300 but it is totally out of line for CNN PR to be injecting itself into this because CNN doesn't just represent Don Lemon.

00:44:49.840 CNN represents men and young women and others inside the building at CNN who need to understand that they have someone fair and impartial at the helm when cases like this may come up,

00:44:59.840 even against their most powerful,

00:45:01.760 most successful,

00:45:02.580 richest anchors.

00:45:04.200 And what they are telegraphing and injecting themselves into this case about which they know absolutely nothing because they weren't there is that they don't give a damn about the employees who work underneath Don Lemon or who might feel intimidated by Don Lemon or Chris Cuomo,

00:45:17.540 for that matter,

00:45:18.280 another problem on their hands.

00:45:19.580 All they care about is how they look in the press and how Don looks in the press. 0.97

00:45:24.040 And it's disgusting.

00:45:25.220 This statement was totally inappropriate and out of line.

00:45:28.780 What did you think?

00:45:30.260 Correct.

00:45:30.860 I mean,

00:45:31.140 they're complicit in this.

00:45:32.560 Their comments have,

00:45:33.880 you know,

00:45:35.480 influenced people to the fact where they they're calling me a liar.

00:45:39.040 And there's been many other websites that have taken their words and formulated their own narrative on who I am and what I've done and what I'm looking at.

00:45:47.540 My intentions here.

00:45:49.200 And if they didn't you know,

00:45:50.780 they they didn't know the facts.

00:45:52.120 They they might have not have known that he's offered me almost a half a million dollars in settlement offers multiple times.

00:45:58.220 And they didn't they might not have known about that.

00:46:00.540 But, you know,

00:46:01.000 who are they to speak up on behalf of what's going on between Don Lemon and I?

00:46:05.440 They inserted themselves into this.

00:46:07.640 And quite frankly,

00:46:08.660 I think they're complicit in this.

00:46:11.000 This this reminds me of the time when Linda Vester accused Tom Brokaw at NBC.

00:46:15.820 She'd worked for NBC for over a decade and she came out 20 plus years later and said in the course of the Me Too movement,

00:46:23.120 this is what happened between Tom Brokaw and me.

00:46:25.440 And NBC PR came out knee jerk,

00:46:28.540 defended Tom,

00:46:29.660 attacked Linda,

00:46:30.960 attacked her.

00:46:32.200 And,

00:46:32.460 you know,

00:46:32.900 my first instinct there was to you're not Tom Brokaw's PR shop.

00:46:37.080 You represent NBC News,

00:46:39.160 not Tom Brokaw.

00:46:40.200 And this statement implicates far more than just Tom Brokaw.

00:46:44.580 It's out of line and it sends exactly the wrong message to your employees than the one you should be sending.

00:46:50.220 CNN ought to be embarrassed about this.

00:46:51.780 They ought to revoke it.

00:46:52.660 It's not too late.

00:46:53.700 And they ought to let Don Lemon,

00:46:55.060 who has plenty of money,

00:46:56.260 hire his own PR operative.

00:46:58.900 For the record,

00:47:00.040 in the case,

00:47:01.660 Don has denied

00:47:02.660 denied the allegations,

00:47:05.060 denied that he assaulted you in any manner

00:47:07.020 and denied your damages

00:47:09.040 and says he's often the one subject to racist and homophobic harassment.

00:47:14.260 We're going to pick it up there right after this quick break.

00:47:16.660 Don't go away.

00:47:21.640 Just to pick up on where I left off,

00:47:23.680 what they have said in their response to your lawsuit,

00:47:26.680 Dustin,

00:47:27.040 is this is Don Lemon,

00:47:28.560 defendant through his lawyers,

00:47:29.600 he says,

00:47:29.940 is a public figure

00:47:31.260 and is often subjected to racist and homophobic harassment.

00:47:35.560 Strangers approach defendant in public frequently,

00:47:38.360 at times intrusively and repeatedly.

00:47:41.100 It is denied that defendant assaulted plaintiff in any manner.

00:47:45.880 Why do you think they're including that Don Lemon is allegedly often subjected to racist and homophobic harassment

00:47:51.220 and approached frequently in ways that are intrusive and repeated?

00:47:55.780 I mean, just to change the narrative,

00:47:57.940 take the focus off of what he did.

00:48:01.480 You know,

00:48:01.880 he has no other,

00:48:04.280 the truth is not on his side,

00:48:05.800 so he's going to come up with other ways,

00:48:07.780 either bullying or smearing or demonizing me

00:48:11.320 to

00:48:12.840 control the narrative.

00:48:15.680 Can you tell me a little bit about how you have,

00:48:18.280 Lemon's attorneys have handled themselves

00:48:20.320 on his behalf in this case?

00:48:22.800 I know there was an allegation by you that they have made,

00:48:25.120 they may have released some of your confidential information publicly.

00:48:29.780 How so?

00:48:30.520 What happened specifically?

00:48:32.540 We had a file sharing app during discovery and both my counsel and their counsel would share this stuff

00:48:39.140 and they opened it to the public and members of the public breached it.

00:48:42.720 What seems to be an attempt to dox me or to release my private confidential information?

00:48:50.560 What was in there without doxing yourself?

00:48:53.140 I mean,

00:48:53.320 I'm not asking you to tell us specifically,

00:48:55.100 but generally what was in there?

00:48:56.880 I don't know exactly,

00:48:58.020 but like it was just stuff pertinent to our case

00:49:00.840 and discovery stuff that they just put out there.

00:49:06.540 Why do you think Lemon's attorneys put that out to the...

00:49:09.380 Why do you believe that they made it public?

00:49:11.880 I don't know why they've done a lot of the things they've done.

00:49:14.580 No, but like for what do you believe...

00:49:17.120 Based on what do you believe that they released it?

00:49:22.080 You know, everything they've done has been unethical.

00:49:25.380 We have to hire investigators to find witnesses.

00:49:29.700 They've intimidated witnesses.

00:49:32.640 My therapist who I've been speaking to had to hire her own attorney 0.73

00:49:36.120 because she was worried,

00:49:37.620 like she was getting threatening and harassing phone calls from his counsel.

00:49:43.440 It was just everything they've done is just...

00:49:46.020 And blows my mind that this can even happen in today's world, you know?

00:49:50.340 But information that you provided to them confidential via this sharing app

00:49:54.500 that allows parties to a litigation to share information.

00:49:57.640 Did you wind up seeing it in the paper?

00:50:00.940 Or I mean, what led you to believe it had been released to the public?

00:50:03.340 I don't know.

00:50:04.060 I just...

00:50:04.480 My counsel told me that they made it available to the general public.

00:50:08.500 I don't really know the details behind that.

00:50:10.220 You would have to speak to my counsel.

00:50:11.680 What remedy was pursued then?

00:50:14.440 Did you go to the judge?

00:50:15.440 What happened there?

00:50:16.300 I believe that there was talks with the judge and I'm not sure if there was a motion or not.

00:50:24.000 To be honest, I try to stay out of all the legal stuff because it's just too overwhelming

00:50:30.560 and I'm still trying to get through life.

00:50:33.040 You know, I have a job and I have a family and a girlfriend and if I get a daily update,

00:50:39.000 it weighs on me and it's hard to focus.

00:50:41.640 What about CNN's allegation in their statement, in which they injected themselves, that you

00:50:47.900 had displayed, quote, a pattern of contempt for CNN on your social media accounts?

00:50:54.060 They post...

00:50:54.980 Their evidence, and I'm going to put it on the screen, is a post by you.

00:50:58.940 You know, the one I'm referring to.

00:51:00.280 Um, it's got you standing in front of the CNN headquarters in Atlanta and your caption

00:51:05.360 is, touring the CNN center today.

00:51:08.560 This is long before anything allegedly happened.

00:51:11.300 This is 2017.

00:51:12.680 Touring the CNN center today, or as Trump would say, the home of fake news, LOL.

00:51:18.520 That's all you wrote.

00:51:19.800 So is there something beyond this, Dustin?

00:51:22.180 No, I've never posted about them in any other way.

00:51:25.980 Um, that was a day that I had, I was working a trade show in Atlanta and I had a free day.

00:51:30.840 Um, if I was so anti-CNN, why would I pay money and spend half a day touring and seeing

00:51:35.840 how the news was done or what I thought was the news?

00:51:38.800 But, um, my, the only attention I ever gave CNN in the past, it was like watching Anthony

00:51:45.420 Bourdain, Parts Unknown.

00:51:47.140 I could care less about CNN or Don Lemon until what happened to me.

00:51:51.580 And then I started paying attention and seeing what the, what he and the network was all

00:51:56.300 about.

00:51:57.100 Well, certainly since, yeah, since you filed a lawsuit, you've posted about them, but they

00:52:00.060 seem to be referring to prior to bringing this case, you didn't like CNN after the alleged

00:52:05.720 incident, everybody understands why you wouldn't like CNN.

00:52:08.140 But if you had a pattern prior to, they're suggesting it, you know, that's why you brought

00:52:13.320 this case.

00:52:13.880 Is, is there more than this post?

00:52:15.920 No, not at all.

00:52:17.280 There's one post and it was, uh, me quoting what Trump said about the thing.

00:52:22.000 And, you know, if they want to make this about politics, I didn't even vote in the 2016 election.

00:52:26.780 So they can, you know, this isn't about race or gender or political affiliation or sexual

00:52:31.160 orientation.

00:52:31.540 This is about right versus wrong.

00:52:33.300 And they're trying to find anything they can to demonize me and slander me and smear me and

00:52:38.580 make me look like the bad guy.

00:52:40.200 That's because they can control the narrative with their media outlet.

00:52:44.320 You know, and this, this is how the mainstream media has done this for years.

00:52:48.620 This is not the first time this has happened.

00:52:51.400 Don Lemon, when he kicked off his newly named show, right, they renamed it with, with his

00:52:57.960 name in it, vowing to hold people accountable for their words and actions, but with grace,

00:53:03.860 with grace.

00:53:04.640 Yeah.

00:53:05.200 Has he lived up to that?

00:53:07.080 No, I mean, he started a new podcast with Chris Cuomo and he was also has credible allegations

00:53:11.740 against him and it's called the handoff.

00:53:13.380 It should be more like the hands off podcast because it just blows my mind that these people

00:53:19.520 are still on the air and after credible allegations, uh, you know, whatever's going to happen to

00:53:24.780 him has happened, will happen to him.

00:53:26.640 All I can do is speak my truth and stand up for myself and know that I went, I stood up

00:53:31.360 to that man.

00:53:32.020 And for the rest of my life, I'll have that.

00:53:33.940 But, you know, I don't have, I don't have any faith that CNN's ever going to do the right

00:53:37.720 thing.

00:53:38.120 I mean, look who they employ.

00:53:39.280 If you do go to trial, are you prepared to testify and take the stand?

00:53:44.920 Absolutely.

00:53:45.780 I, it's when you're telling the truth, it's easy.

00:53:47.960 And when you're lying, that's the difficult part.

00:53:50.840 And so I, he'll have to get on the stand and share his story too.

00:53:55.420 So I'm ready for that.

00:53:57.660 But yeah, what should happen to him if you get a jury verdict in your favor?

00:54:02.160 No, that, that's not up to me.

00:54:04.120 Um, again, I can just, I can just stand up for myself.

00:54:08.080 Um, quite frankly, I, do I think he needs, deserves to have a platform to influence the

00:54:12.460 minds of the world?

00:54:14.020 And no, absolutely not.

00:54:15.780 But, uh, again, I don't put anything past CNN. 0.98

00:54:18.800 And I mean, they have just, they're rife with sexual predators and deviants and other people.

00:54:25.820 So, um, I have no doubt that they're probably not going to do the right thing in this situation,

00:54:30.320 no matter what the outcome is.

00:54:33.120 What, what do you think people need to know as they watch Don Lemon at 10, 10 o'clock on

00:54:37.980 CNN at night?

00:54:38.640 Um, just, I mean, he's look at the way he comes at Kanye West and Nicki Minaj and just

00:54:45.840 comes at these people.

00:54:46.520 He was just down here in Florida.

00:54:48.220 He's been bashing Florida for a year now during the COVID thing.

00:54:52.920 And then he comes down here and without a mask and he's sitting out in Palm beach by a

00:54:56.680 pool at a hotel. 1.00

00:54:57.680 I mean, he's just the biggest hypocrite. 1.00

00:55:00.080 And, you know, this guy claims to be a champion of, of sexual assault survivors, but then he goes 1.00

00:55:05.520 out in public and commits, you know, commits sexual assault.

00:55:08.860 So, um, I just hope people open up to this and to who he really is and who this network

00:55:14.220 really is.

00:55:15.060 Um, this farce of a me too movement, it can't be partisan.

00:55:18.720 It's a, you know, you can't pick and choose who you decide to stand up for.

00:55:22.200 I haven't had any support by them.

00:55:24.880 And, you know, because Don Lemon is part of their whole crew and, you know, this happens

00:55:29.260 far and wide and it happens to men too.

00:55:31.860 I mean, me too should be for men too, you know, like it doesn't, you can't pick and choose

00:55:36.340 who you support.

00:55:38.800 And when, especially when they're going through probably the most difficult thing of their

00:55:42.620 lives, anybody that speaks up, I give them all the credit in the world because I now know

00:55:48.180 how difficult it is.

00:55:49.860 And mental health is a very real thing.

00:55:52.520 You don't, it's not like a broken arm or a black eye that you carry around and people

00:55:56.020 see that you're hurting on the outside.

00:55:58.160 You're hurting on the inside.

00:55:59.420 And it's something that you carry with you.

00:56:02.300 And I'm just looking forward to being happy again and putting this behind me.

00:56:07.320 I know it's been a rough year plus you've had lots of deaths in the family.

00:56:12.820 I don't, I just, I can see the stress weighing on you.

00:56:15.800 The litigation is stressful under the best of circumstances, but I know you haven't had

00:56:20.380 the best of circumstances over the past couple of years.

00:56:22.520 Walk us through what your life's been like.

00:56:23.920 Um, I don't even know where to begin.

00:56:28.820 Um, well, you know, in the beginning you start off with anger and rage, but as time goes

00:56:34.180 by, you know, you find ways to cope and to navigate through life.

00:56:39.000 Um, I've had, you know, people tell me that I'm going to get murdered before it ever gets

00:56:43.520 to trial.

00:56:44.040 Like that's something you carry with you.

00:56:45.720 You know, I, uh, my, my family members have been through this.

00:56:49.600 It's not, it doesn't just affect the person that's going through it.

00:56:53.140 It's the entire, all my support group and my, my loved ones, my family members, they've

00:56:57.960 all been going through this.

00:56:59.060 My poor mom.

00:57:00.480 Um, but if I didn't have the support system that I have, and you know, I, I, I went and

00:57:07.580 sought therapy and that has been one of the best things I've ever done.

00:57:12.500 I used to think it was weak to be the year.

00:57:15.040 You're admitting that you're weak if you have to go see a therapist, but I realized that's

00:57:18.380 probably the strongest, bravest thing I've ever done.

00:57:20.580 And it's helped a lot.

00:57:21.960 Um, but you know, I'm just ready to put this behind me.

00:57:26.100 Um, but we're almost at the end and it's been a long journey and, uh, what's going to

00:57:32.000 happen.

00:57:32.360 It's going to happen.

00:57:33.060 We're going to have a jury of our peers decide, you know, justice.

00:57:37.900 And, um, once this is over, I can just get back to being a normal person.

00:57:43.720 You know, it's, I don't, I don't, I didn't seek this limelight.

00:57:46.380 I, I've turned down countless amount of interviews, but, um, you know, I just felt like the world

00:57:52.560 needs to know who this man really is.

00:57:55.680 You just put on a personal note, are you, are you doing okay?

00:57:59.820 Just in general, I know you left, you're not, you're not the Hamptons and what are you

00:58:02.700 doing for a living?

00:58:04.640 Like how are you doing personally?

00:58:06.420 I work in sales and, you know, I mean, I'm doing pretty good.

00:58:09.220 Uh, I've gotten stronger, you know, when something really horrible happens to you, uh, there's

00:58:14.680 also some good in it.

00:58:15.720 And I, you know, I've reevaluated a lot of things in my own life.

00:58:18.860 Uh, my faith has never been stronger.

00:58:21.520 Uh, I have a beautiful girlfriend that, you know, once we get this horrible ordeal over

00:58:26.580 with, we plan on getting married and maybe starting a family.

00:58:31.200 I just, I just want my life back.

00:58:34.660 Dustin Heiss, it was even more brave of you to come forward and tell this story given

00:58:38.660 the media's predilection against you as somebody who's accusing a very popular, uh, CNN figure

00:58:45.860 who's, you know, he's been untouchable thus far.

00:58:48.680 I mean, totally untouchable.

00:58:50.780 Um, and it's, it's obviously more difficult for a straight male to come out as the sexual 0.76

00:58:56.400 assault victim of, of a gay man, right?

00:58:59.340 Because then everybody jumps to conclusions about your sexuality that, you know, may not

00:59:04.100 be objectively offensive, but that you might find offensive as a straight male.

00:59:07.320 You don't want to be said that you're, that you're not.

00:59:09.740 And that's been another layer that you've had to overcome.

00:59:11.820 And then the complete blackout by most outlets of your story.

00:59:15.460 Um, it's, it's been something to watch.

00:59:18.220 It's been frustrating for me as somebody who's interviewed accusers of Republicans, of Democrats,

00:59:23.400 of people on both sides of the aisle.

00:59:24.780 It's amazing how people shut down when the person being accused is this beloved, woke,

00:59:30.160 uh, sort of figure on the left in particular.

00:59:32.960 Uh, you didn't deserve that.

00:59:34.340 You didn't deserve the blackout.

00:59:35.340 And I think, um, we'll all be watching as this case goes to trial.

00:59:38.660 I, I will predict, you don't have to comment on it.

00:59:40.540 I will predict he settles this case and that Don Lemon will never take the stand, um, because

00:59:46.440 the last thing he wants is for this to go before a jury.

00:59:49.240 Dustin, all the best to you and, uh, congrats, hopefully on your, on your future marriage

00:59:53.920 with your, with your girlfriend.

00:59:54.900 I appreciate it.

00:59:55.800 Thank you so much.

00:59:57.000 Take care.

00:59:58.620 Wow.

00:59:59.000 It's unbelievable.

01:00:00.040 Um, that's, what's been so aggravating to me.

01:00:02.860 You know, whenever I do these stories, I'll get, I'll get trolled online saying, I now do

01:00:06.220 the Trump accusers.

01:00:07.200 Guess what I did?

01:00:08.620 Find me another journalist in America who interviewed both Tara Reid and the Trump accusers.

01:00:12.680 There isn't one.

01:00:14.020 I'm it.

01:00:14.500 Um, I, you know, I put on the Roy Moore accusers and I put on the Chris Cuomo, uh, well, they

01:00:20.740 wouldn't come on, but I put on Janice Dean who accused Chris or not Chris Cuomo, Andrew

01:00:24.320 Cuomo of other things.

01:00:25.900 And I put on Chris Cuomo's accuser, uh, cause he's been accused too.

01:00:29.200 As Dustin points out, it's not, it shouldn't be about partisanship.

01:00:34.240 That's what, that's how the me too movement jumped the shark, right?

01:00:37.460 It's the Democrats made it about partisanship when they said, believe all women.

01:00:42.520 Right.

01:00:42.920 And they said that in the context of Brett Kavanaugh, but then as soon as Joe Biden was

01:00:46.400 accused, it was except for that one.

01:00:47.840 Don't believe that one.

01:00:49.000 And this guy's story has been all but blacked out, right?

01:00:52.140 They, I'm sure the left-wing media, certain pockets of it would have put him on to excoriate

01:00:56.620 him and try to defend Don Lemon.

01:00:58.460 But for the most part, there's been a collective, eh, doubt it.

01:01:01.700 Why is that?

01:01:03.060 You know, you heard Dustin speak about it and we're going to speak about it a bit more

01:01:05.840 with somebody I've been dying to talk to.

01:01:07.820 Her name is Emily.

01:01:09.300 Now, I, I hear her say Shashinsky, but I think it's Shashinsky.

01:01:15.800 She's the culture editor for The Federalist.

01:01:17.660 I listen to you all the time, Emily.

01:01:18.800 You think I'd know by now.

01:01:19.940 And a director at the National Journalism Center and visiting fellow at the Independent

01:01:23.620 Women's Forum.

01:01:24.460 Will you say it for me?

01:01:25.340 So I know once, once and for all.

01:01:27.580 Oh, of course.

01:01:28.160 It's Shashinsky. 0.88

01:01:29.180 But I'm not offended at all when people get it wrong because it's an easy one to get

01:01:32.660 wrong.

01:01:33.320 Is it, is it Polish?

01:01:34.400 Is your, are you, are you Polish by heritage?

01:01:36.640 Uh, Russian, as far as I know, but far back.

01:01:40.420 I mean, my, my first husband was Polish by heritage.

01:01:43.720 His last name was Kendall, but the original was, uh, I think Kozakowski and it was spelled

01:01:48.440 totally dissimilarly from what you would expect that to look like on papers.

01:01:52.800 Anyway, thank you for indulging me.

01:01:54.780 So I know you've been listening to the interview, um, with Dustin and that's sort of where I want

01:01:59.300 to pick it up.

01:01:59.960 Uh, the, the Me Too movement and how it's so selectively applied by the journalists, the

01:02:04.560 media who really are the ones who make it, you know, the, the case is, or is not a Me

01:02:08.540 Too case based on whether, what the media decides.

01:02:12.420 Yeah.

01:02:12.860 And I mean, this case and your interview, I think illustrated this clearly, um, and damningly

01:02:18.020 so it's, this meets the standards for a Me Too allegation that the media has set over

01:02:22.800 the course of the last few years.

01:02:24.240 There's no question that Dustin's allegation clears the hurdle.

01:02:27.840 Um, but that standard is applied on a partisan basis, as you say, but I think the partisan

01:02:33.240 standard is downstream of a different standard, which is that you can sort of, it's, it's

01:02:38.960 the, the convenience, the, the convenient morality of the sort of media power brokers.

01:02:43.800 And so it's not even so much that they protect people who are Democrats.

01:02:47.600 It's that they protect people in their circle who almost always happen to have this sort of

01:02:52.740 left of center cultural worldview.

01:02:54.740 Um, and I think that's what we see with Don Lemon.

01:02:57.140 I mean, that's why people are intimidated.

01:02:59.000 The videotape question.

01:03:00.340 How interesting was that?

01:03:01.480 The videotapes, um, that almost certainly exists, just disappear.

01:03:04.820 Well, it's because Don Lemon is a powerful person.

01:03:07.240 And if Don Lemon personally contacts you, um, you might be, uh, you know, easily convinced

01:03:12.860 to, to just harmlessly delete some tapes or so you think.

01:03:16.380 Um, and so, yeah, I think that one of the very important things here that, that, that interview

01:03:21.420 illustrated is the standard of what constitutes a credible Me Too allegation for Don Lemon,

01:03:27.640 for CNN, and for the broader, uh, legacy media is met by Dustin's allegation.

01:03:33.160 Yeah.

01:03:33.440 And they would be, even if it were just Dustin, but it's not, he's got George, George Ganoulas,

01:03:39.700 who went on the record by name with direct quotes to Fox news.com.

01:03:44.220 Um, who's got, you know, had a two week relationship with Dustin and his boss.

01:03:48.500 It's not like, oh, they're lifelong best friends or it's his mom.

01:03:51.000 You know, I mean, this is somebody who has no reason to lie for him.

01:03:53.880 In fact, to the contrary, he, you know, Dustin talked about how George suffered an employment

01:03:58.480 penalty later, once a very well-known celebrity found out that he had gone on the record about

01:04:03.440 the Don Lemon case.

01:04:04.600 You know, most, most of the people that George needs to be connected to would not look favorably

01:04:09.220 on him testifying against Don Lemon, but he's going to do it.

01:04:11.800 He's going to show up at trial.

01:04:13.340 The point is not whether George and Dustin are telling the truth, though.

01:04:17.240 There's no reason to disbelieve them.

01:04:18.640 I mean, we've been given absolutely no reason to disbelieve them.

01:04:21.480 The point is, is this a story that the media would normally be covering if Don's name weren't

01:04:27.600 Don Lemon, but it were something like Tucker Carlson?

01:04:31.740 Oh my gosh.

01:04:33.000 They would be ravenous about the story of Tucker.

01:04:36.040 I mean, really, I honestly cannot imagine because it would be such a feeding frenzy.

01:04:41.420 It's hard to even, like, quantify what that would look like or even the scope of it.

01:04:45.640 It would be like a nonstop.

01:04:46.980 You know what it would be?

01:04:47.580 It would be a media.

01:04:48.540 It would be a news cycle in and of itself.

01:04:50.260 It wouldn't even just be sort of a secondary story.

01:04:52.240 It would be its own news cycle.

01:04:54.220 There would be a pressure campaign for every one of Fox News' advertisers, even if they're

01:04:58.400 not on Tucker's show, to back out.

01:05:00.540 I mean, it would be like this sweeping campaign.

01:05:03.560 And the question also is, the Me Too movement, I think, set a couple of standards.

01:05:08.700 And one of them, I would say, is objectionable, that unnamed accusers can just go in.

01:05:13.040 The Aziz Ansari story, perfect example of that.

01:05:15.480 It did engender a lot of backlash.

01:05:17.360 But there were also other standards that said, listen, this stuff is actually completely

01:05:21.100 newsworthy.

01:05:21.700 These are powerful people who are getting away with sexual assault, in some cases, sexual

01:05:25.920 abuse.

01:05:26.380 And they're getting away with it because the media is too intimidated to talk about

01:05:30.020 it because they send Noah Oppenheim a bottle of vodka or whatever it is, and they're able

01:05:36.040 to sort of get away with it.

01:05:38.620 And that standard, where there was credible reporting, there were credible accusations,

01:05:44.640 that's an important standard.

01:05:45.860 And not only does Dustin's allegation meet the first standard, it actually meets the second

01:05:50.460 standard, as you say, because he's got witnesses, he's got detailed, credible testimony,

01:05:55.080 he's going on the record, no ulterior motives, no matter how far CNN tries to scrape the bottom

01:05:59.980 of the barrel with joking, one single joking tweet.

01:06:03.760 And this is sort of immoral behavior.

01:06:05.720 And that's one thing not to get lost in all of this.

01:06:08.240 This is immoral behavior, A, from somebody, B, who tries to be a moral arbiter and has a

01:06:13.500 nightly platform by a major corporate news network to do that day in and day out.

01:06:18.700 So there's so much wrong with this story on just about every different layer.

01:06:21.940 And that's why the media's silence is pretty damning.

01:06:26.700 It's true.

01:06:27.040 And I have to say, I mean, if Dustin were just about shaking Don Lemon down, 400, almost

01:06:32.000 $500,000 would probably be the number one would walk away at, right?

01:06:36.260 This guy, he's not backing down.

01:06:38.660 He doesn't want to be silenced.

01:06:39.920 He's ready to go to trial.

01:06:41.120 Again, I predict Don Lemon will pay him.

01:06:43.980 He'll pay him the full amount rather than take the stand at a trial.

01:06:47.240 It's just I don't think that's ever going to happen.

01:06:49.060 But we are now into serious money and still the media doesn't cover it.

01:06:54.020 Now we're two months away from trial.

01:06:56.220 It survived two attempts to have it dismissed, this case.

01:06:59.300 And still the media doesn't cover.

01:07:01.320 I mean, at what point do you say the thing has legs and we're going to need to cover it

01:07:05.140 the same as we would if it were Sean Hannity?

01:07:07.760 Right.

01:07:07.960 But they but they won't.

01:07:09.360 And the piece of it that that hasn't gotten any attention is how CNN injected itself into

01:07:16.020 this thing to try to say Don didn't do it.

01:07:19.740 And this guy's an activist against CNN, which isn't true.

01:07:22.880 There's no proof of that.

01:07:24.480 The same way NBC did for Tom Brokaw.

01:07:26.520 It's totally at every turn.

01:07:28.320 CNN makes the wrong move when it comes to telegraphing to its young employees whose side

01:07:33.940 they are on.

01:07:34.600 If an allegation comes up, I was so glad you made that point because it gets to this other

01:07:39.500 element, which is that it's not even so much partisan as it is.

01:07:43.200 The partisanship is downstream of this like media clubbiness and powerful people being clubby.

01:07:48.380 And that CNN represents, to your point, women and men who would probably want to know that

01:07:53.980 their allegations would be taken seriously.

01:07:56.620 And yet the network is going in on something they don't know anything about.

01:08:00.500 They weren't there.

01:08:01.440 And by the way, a completely credible allegation and weighing in on the side of its anchor,

01:08:06.560 actually trying to smear the accuser. 0.54

01:08:09.480 I mean, it's so grossly inappropriate, but it does show that if you're Don Lemon, you actually

01:08:14.560 don't just have Don Lemon and the super expensive, powerful attorneys Don Lemon can hire.

01:08:19.560 You have all of your friends in the media who you can give a call and say, listen, this

01:08:23.160 thing's not true.

01:08:24.080 You can try to pressure them out of publishing it.

01:08:26.140 And you have your own major corporate entity that is going to go to bat for you because

01:08:30.960 you would cost them money if you went somewhere or if something happened to your brand because

01:08:36.100 it's their brand.

01:08:37.520 Same thing happened with Chris Cuomo, right?

01:08:39.660 I mean, like there's a pattern.

01:08:42.380 A hundred percent.

01:08:43.080 A pattern.

01:08:44.000 And it shows how they sort of love to be the moral arbiters, the moral preening.

01:08:48.340 And those clips you play just make people sick to their stomachs.

01:08:51.460 They absolutely should.

01:08:52.560 It also shows how the media doesn't understand how infuriating that is to the rest of the

01:08:56.720 country.

01:08:56.980 They don't understand how that animated a lot of people to go to the polls in 2016 in

01:09:01.560 ways that shocked them.

01:09:03.120 Oh, that's a perfect place to pick it up.

01:09:07.160 I'll let you finish your point and then I'll tell you, because right after this, we're going

01:09:09.800 to get into what Saturday Night Live did with respect to Tuesday's election, because that

01:09:15.540 sort of moral preening and scoffing that you saw in that long Don Lemon montage continues.

01:09:20.960 It's in hidden fairness to him.

01:09:22.660 It's far from just Don Lemon.

01:09:24.580 But go ahead.

01:09:24.940 Finish your point.

01:09:26.000 Well, I was just going to say they love to be the moral arbiters and they're some of the

01:09:28.680 least moral people in our country.

01:09:31.320 Yes, exactly right.

01:09:32.660 So we'll show you that in one second.

01:09:34.600 We're going to play the SNL clip and get into some of the things that are happening culturally,

01:09:38.620 since Emily is the culture editor at The Federalist.

01:09:41.080 And I love listening to her on the podcast.

01:09:42.800 You used to listen to Ben Domenech.

01:09:44.320 Now he's not doing it as much.

01:09:45.460 And I love Ben.

01:09:46.340 But Emily, I got to say, you're an upgrade.

01:09:48.280 He's awesome, but you're an upgrade.

01:09:49.640 So, Emily, SNL comes out last night and plenty of things to discuss.

01:09:59.440 I mean, I, for one, really thought they should have taken that Microsoft opener with like,

01:10:04.360 I am blonde with blue eyes and I have white skin and I did bad things to Native Americans, 1.00

01:10:09.660 whatever that long.

01:10:10.720 But no, they left that goodness on the editing room floor and instead went, let's just, it's so telling.

01:10:17.300 This is their take on Virginia and why it happened.

01:10:20.760 Watch.

01:10:22.420 Judge Jeanine, thank you for having me.

01:10:24.120 My win in Virginia proves that people are deeply concerned about education.

01:10:29.200 And who are most of your voters?

01:10:31.400 People who didn't go to college.

01:10:32.520 Now, critical race theory is something you talked about a lot.

01:10:37.960 What is critical race theory?

01:10:40.440 Uh, simple.

01:10:41.200 It's what got me elected.

01:10:42.540 I invited the leader of my parental task force to share her recommendations on dangerous material

01:10:48.040 that should be banned. 0.53

01:10:48.960 When my son brought home the book Beloved by Toni Morrison,

01:10:53.100 I put down my copy of Fifty Shades and said, no, a woman named Toni, not my America.

01:11:01.260 So a group of parents and I put together our list of books that should never be allowed in the classroom.

01:11:08.080 Polls sound sexual.

01:11:10.400 Pride and prejudice. 0.98

01:11:11.840 Prejudice is fine, but pride is a term that has been co-opted by the gays. 1.00

01:11:17.580 That's disgusting. 0.99

01:11:18.900 She's that's what they think of America. 1.00

01:11:20.860 Yeah, it's also the just the mediocrity of our educated sort of like elites in the perfect form,

01:11:27.080 because it's these jokes aren't funny.

01:11:29.040 They're not rooted in any reality.

01:11:31.240 This is like completely not what happened in Virginia.

01:11:33.780 Our team at the federalist was out in Loudoun County reporting on some of the parent activists,

01:11:37.840 black Americans, immigrants.

01:11:39.660 I mean, there's so many people who were upset by the real things that were happening

01:11:43.080 in Loudoun County and in their state that motivated it.

01:11:46.600 And the college educated barb, the people who didn't go to college jab, is also a perfect indictment on the contemporary left

01:11:55.620 and how it sort of morphed from a movement that wanted to represent labor and the working class

01:12:00.360 into a movement that actually actively has contempt for the working class,

01:12:05.600 because on these cultural issues, they look down on the working class and actually they actually regularly implicate the working class in all kinds of evil.

01:12:14.320 There's a there's a tweet going around now saying if you're not black and you're using the term woke pejoratively, it's a racial slur.

01:12:21.500 It's like actually amazing how the way that we've inflated the definitions of racism and bigotry and hatred

01:12:27.380 implicates everybody who doesn't happen to be an educated cultural leftist elite.

01:12:32.580 In all of these these terrible things that we have worked so hard in this country, spilled blood, sweat, tears to stigmatize and to erase from our culture is remarkable.

01:12:43.640 And that, I think, really does show the contempt they have for people who are outside of their class.

01:12:48.940 You know, they didn't even make a joke.

01:12:50.800 They just said they're not college educated.

01:12:52.440 There's not even a joke there.

01:12:53.640 That's that's the punchline.

01:12:54.780 The language policing, by the way, is so annoying. 0.93

01:12:57.140 So you can't say woke now unless you're black and you're saying it in a positive way. 0.88

01:13:02.340 If you say it in a way that's negative and you're not black, then then it's a racial slur. 0.54

01:13:06.020 Well, woke, woke, woke, woke, woke, woke.

01:13:07.800 You don't control me.

01:13:09.220 I'm going to say what I want.

01:13:10.780 It's like I remember years ago I was talking to Bernie Goldberg.

01:13:13.780 This is like, you know, a harbinger of things to come. 0.75

01:13:16.260 And he used the term midget.

01:13:17.960 And I'm like, you're not supposed to say midget.

01:13:19.480 You're supposed to say little person.

01:13:20.640 This is live on the air.

01:13:21.460 And his response was midget, midget, midget, midget.

01:13:24.540 And I was like, you know, because on television, we're all like, oh, he said the thing.

01:13:29.120 But honestly, it's like you they leave you no choice.

01:13:32.600 The word policing, the thought policing.

01:13:35.100 And to your point, that was the line, right? 0.91

01:13:38.640 Oh, it's people, people who did not go to college because they could not possibly give two shits what happens to their children in K through 12 education. 1.00

01:13:46.960 They're too dumb. 1.00

01:13:48.180 It parlays perfectly to that Don Lemon segment perfectly. 1.00

01:13:52.000 It's so perfect, actually.

01:13:54.400 And I was just going to go back to that because it shows how some of these people who are and I think it's some mediocrity.

01:14:00.180 I think that's really the best word to use in the circumstance because their ideas go wildly unchallenged.

01:14:05.100 And that's why they think you just have all of these uneducated rubes coming out to vote for Glenn Youngkin, white, uneducated rubes coming out to vote for Glenn Youngkin, who, by the way, the indications are that he did fantastically well with the Hispanic vote. 0.85

01:14:17.140 So that's why they think this, because their ideas are never challenged, because they have created this world in which everything that is a challenge to them is actually bigotry and racism.

01:14:27.920 And they don't have to listen to it.

01:14:29.760 And that's how this really sick ideology metastasized.

01:14:34.360 And it is our governing ideology because it's coming from the heights of every major institution, whether it's Saturday Night Live, Don Lemon, whose show is not very highly rated.

01:14:43.500 But CNN is one of the top news websites in the world, one of the top websites in the world.

01:14:47.860 These are people with a whole lot of power, and they are the ones that are governing us with their entirely hollow and sick morality.

01:14:56.760 And it actually puts working people down.

01:14:58.980 It puts normal people down.

01:15:00.480 People are getting really fed up with it.

01:15:02.000 That's how you get young in.

01:15:03.120 So SNL using people's lack of a college education as a literal punchline.

01:15:07.080 It's so counterproductive.

01:15:08.300 And I feel like, OK, you can mock all you want parents who lined up for hours to speak out against mandatory masking or mandatory vaccines for young children or really disgusting cultural filth in the library.

01:15:23.000 And we are not talking about pride and prejudice.

01:15:26.380 We are talking about we've we've run the soundbite twice now.

01:15:29.060 I'm not going to do it a third time. 0.99

01:15:30.040 But books that actually glorify and lift up and encourage the rape of young boys, celebrate young young boys performing oral sex on grown men. 0.99

01:15:39.240 I don't care who you are. 0.99

01:15:40.260 That doesn't belong in a school library.

01:15:42.020 That's effed up.

01:15:43.760 And any sane person can see that.

01:15:46.000 You don't have to be tip or gore to say that's too much.

01:15:49.180 We object.

01:15:50.160 This is wrong.

01:15:51.460 They can diminish it to the cows come home.

01:15:54.300 Oh, the prejudice.

01:15:55.620 Oh, the prejudice part is OK.

01:15:57.540 That's not what this movement was about.

01:15:59.220 And the real parents out there know it.

01:16:02.380 I mean, I look at it, Emily, and I know you I know you're on the ground.

01:16:04.360 I think, OK, you can either learn this lesson right now on your own in the wake of last Tuesday or you will learn it again next November when the voters go back to the polls in 2022.

01:16:14.980 I don't know if you had a similar reaction, but in the like couple of days after the 2016 election, I was like, so is this the case now that the host of Celebrity Apprentice, literally somebody who was hosting that show not very long ago at that point, like 18 months ago?

01:16:28.220 Is it the case that if the host of Celebrity Apprentice defeats the former secretary of state in a presidential election?

01:16:35.360 Like, is this what actually is the course correction that the media needs to embark upon?

01:16:39.600 Like, this has to do it.

01:16:40.720 Right.

01:16:40.860 And if anything, we saw the sort of like navel gazing and the reckoning for a couple of weeks.

01:16:46.280 You had Dean Bequad of The New York Times saying, we don't get religion.

01:16:49.080 But then after that first couple of weeks, they latched onto the racism, sexism, bigotry excuse and dug deeper and deeper and deeper into the trenches.

01:16:56.040 And that's where it's like, well, they can learn a lesson in November 2016.

01:17:01.260 They can learn it in Virginia, but they never internalize it.

01:17:05.220 And I don't know what could possibly make them undergo this course correction because it's a religion.

01:17:09.180 You know, this is like you're asking them to forfeit and to give up something that in many good people's minds.

01:17:15.800 And there are some people who are decent.

01:17:17.160 They want to actually be fighting racism, but they have no idea what's happening in the rest of the country.

01:17:21.920 That is a good point.

01:17:22.840 That's a good point.

01:17:23.500 I can tell you, I have someone in my family who got addicted to drugs during the opioid crisis.

01:17:28.620 And dealing with that whole thing has just been very rough on the whole family.

01:17:31.740 But I would say with respect to this person in our family, we I describe my own behavior as if we could just if we could just if we could just if we could just like that's how it is when you're dealing with an addict.

01:17:41.820 Like if we could just get this person to go over this hump or get over this bridge or just get into this program or just just just just.

01:17:48.100 And what you learn over the years is there's no just there's just no just that's going to be the solution.

01:17:53.800 It's a very tough nut to crack.

01:17:56.100 And you're saying the similar thing about the media like Trump didn't help them be more self-reflective.

01:18:03.800 In fact, he added to their own problems of, you know, blinders and not being able to understand the country and hating the working class at their own expense.

01:18:11.820 And Tuesday's election is not going to do it.

01:18:14.660 And this year is not like none of it's going to do it.

01:18:17.480 So basically, the country's got to forge on without them and vote out the people, not the James Carvels of the world, but the far left wokesters who want to police every thought and every word that we have.

01:18:28.180 Yeah, it's true.

01:18:28.940 And there also has to be I mean, so what scares me?

01:18:31.940 So I was born in the early 90s and I have I live in a deep blue city.

01:18:37.280 And what I see is that it's not just sort of members of the elite media.

01:18:40.340 There are a lot of people who have filtered through our system of higher education and even K through 12, as the Virginia case illuminated, who have this very deep, deeply ingrained sense of that, that empty morality.

01:18:52.540 That's not real morality.

01:18:53.700 They believe that all of these inflated definitions are not only accurate, but essential.

01:18:59.620 And there are a lot of good people who have been sort of conditioned to see the world this way.

01:19:03.980 And that's a reckoning that goes beyond the media.

01:19:06.340 I mean, that's what happens if you talk to, as I know that you have people at corporations, a lot of times they say it's their own employees.

01:19:13.120 It's not even the threat of bad publicity from the media, but it's their own employees who are complaining about a heterodox thinker who might work for them or it may have been hired to work for them or some sort of bad tweet.

01:19:23.440 It's their own employees that cause them to make these sort of woke decisions that end up resetting the standards for our entire society.

01:19:31.260 I have no sympathy for them. Grow a pair. Grow a pair.

01:19:34.640 Right, exactly.

01:19:35.640 Do what the journal did when they got, and they had some blowback for publishing Heather McDonald.

01:19:39.360 I'm so sorry you don't like it. Bye. Bye.

01:19:42.020 There's so many other things.

01:19:43.440 Like, I used to say to my staff at all my jobs where they complain about the hours, they complain about working on the weekends.

01:19:48.400 I'm like, you know what? There's this wonderful place. It's called KeyBank.

01:19:51.100 It's open from 9 to 4. The hours are predictable.

01:19:53.580 You get to stand there all day long.

01:19:55.020 Nobody requires you to come in suddenly in the middle of the night to open up the cash register.

01:19:58.560 You go. You got KeyBank. It's right there. Go enjoy.

01:20:01.880 You chose to work at news. It's a different environment.

01:20:04.660 And that's really what you need to say to them.

01:20:05.920 Like, you want to go work at the perfect woke place?

01:20:08.060 I go work at MSNBC. Great. Or, by the way, NBC.

01:20:11.200 Go work. It'll be wonderful for you.

01:20:13.100 Anyplace else? Too bad.

01:20:15.680 This is part of America where we enjoy the free and thoughtful, even sometimes thoughtless exchange of ideas, good, bad, and ugly.

01:20:23.920 All right. This is not without consequence, because not only did we see last Tuesday, but today there's in the news a Suffolk USA Today poll.

01:20:31.840 The question is, do you hope Joe Biden will run for a second term?

01:20:34.920 63.7 percent of the populace says no.

01:20:39.220 Only 29 percent says yes.

01:20:41.740 By the way, they also asked, do you hope Trump runs?

01:20:44.680 58 percent said no.

01:20:46.780 We do not hope that he runs.

01:20:48.180 So those are still the front runners for each party, but it's not it's not good for Joe Biden that two thirds of his of the entire country does not want him to run again.

01:21:00.760 And I think actually the number in the crosstabs of independence was like 44 percent, which is terrible for somebody who wanted to build back better and restore a sense of normalcy.

01:21:09.220 And that was a huge part of his campaign.

01:21:10.780 He got into office and acted like he had a mandate to be a new Franklin Delano Roosevelt to implement a policy that was bigger than the New Deal.

01:21:18.280 And he's I mean, that's not what people elected him to do.

01:21:21.320 And so the sort of recognition, I think the recognition and recognition among establishment Democrats that a lot of this is bad for their brand and bad for their electoral chances is the one thing where you can start to see the cultural arbiters, the tastemakers, the gatekeepers undergo a course correction.

01:21:39.020 And we saw sort of a preview of that last week where you had the Carvilles of the world, you had Van Jones, you had the CNN panel sort of contemplating their echo chambers.

01:21:47.160 But then on the other hand, as the week wore on, sort of not unlike 2016, we saw everybody scapegoating racism and saying that even Winsome Sears, the black woman who was elected lieutenant governor, even she's a foot soldier of white supremacy.

01:22:01.720 And so, you know, they always find a scapegoat because it's that's it's this religion.

01:22:07.160 But to the extent that elite Democrats start to see their power threatened, that might be the thing that drags them back.

01:22:13.240 Mm hmm. I wonder. So they they've now passed the one point two trillion dollar infrastructure bill.

01:22:19.140 They've got Nancy Pelosi managed to get that through thanks to the Republicans who crossed over to help her.

01:22:24.460 They haven't managed to pass the build back better.

01:22:27.680 The triple B. It's basically basically just social spending on the Democrats wish list that still hangs out there.

01:22:34.940 And I do wonder whether it would be a gift to them if they can't get it through, like if they get it through.

01:22:41.880 I don't know whether Joe Biden's numbers go up or down because he wasn't elected with a mandate.

01:22:47.880 He wasn't elected to take the country far left, to spend trillions and trillions of dollars that we don't have while we're in the midst of an inflation problem.

01:22:54.560 And I do wonder whether, you know, some of these Democrats should be rooting for that to fail, for Manchin to really throw down or Sinema to say, you know what, on second thought, no way, because I I don't know that that's going to help them.

01:23:08.500 Yeah. And that's a that's a really good point, because they are also used to having the entire media, entire legacy media be the support system for them.

01:23:18.400 So like it's the public relations arm. So if they pass something that might be broadly unpopular with the country, it's generally sort of popular with the media for ideological reasons.

01:23:26.660 And so they get this huge public relations boost. But the legacy media is not what it used to be.

01:23:31.380 We're fragmenting to all of these little niches. And so they're going to have, you know, if you have Joe Rogan railing against your bill, if you have Megyn Kelly railing against your bill, that matters a lot.

01:23:41.920 And so their PR arm is sort of disintegrating a little bit. And I don't know that they fully realized that.

01:23:46.680 And they've also sort of screwed themselves with their own polling questions into thinking a lot of this huge social spending is popular.

01:23:53.400 And those questions are asked in a way that, of course, the media would frame the issues.

01:23:57.560 But if that's not happening and people are just sort of actually finding the cold, hard reality of this, I think you're right.

01:24:03.660 I think it would be a gift for them if Manchin and Sinema block it, because this is this bill is just larded up with a lot of unpopular things.

01:24:12.700 That isn't to say parts of it aren't popular, but it's a huge, huge bill that can be spun and should be spun to show how negative it is in certain aspects.

01:24:21.380 I like larded up. I'm going to use lard more in my in my daily vernacular.

01:24:27.520 I like it's a surprising verb. Yeah, it's very graphic.

01:24:31.180 Yeah, it brings it home. It really has a certain image.

01:24:33.660 It's not a good one, as we all know, when swimsuit season comes around.

01:24:39.620 All right. So let's talk about the vaccine mandate, because it suffered a blowback this this past weekend when the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, which oversees Texas, Louisiana, I think Mississippi, found the vaccine mandate unconstitutional.

01:24:51.480 As the audience knows, Joe Biden refused to sort of put it in writing this executive order saying, you know, you've got to do it if you have 100 employees or more.

01:24:59.380 He finally did it. And as soon as he did it, it was legally challengeable.

01:25:02.580 Like we couldn't challenge it until he actually put it in writing.

01:25:04.960 And now it's failed in front of the Fifth Circuit, which is very well respected court.

01:25:09.540 Very bad for him. But they have the solution, Emily.

01:25:12.400 They have the solution. And that is Big Bird.

01:25:15.380 He is going to sell it to us, even if our employer can't ram it down our throats.

01:25:21.020 Here's a little bit of the town hall CNN did with Sesame Street.

01:25:27.600 Hey, Granny Bird question. Have you decided if Big Bird's going to be getting the vaccine?

01:25:32.880 Yes, I did. I asked my questions and I got my answers and I've scheduled an appointment for my grandson.

01:25:40.040 We're leaving in a few minutes.

01:25:41.640 I'm a little scared to get the shot because I don't like needles. Will it hurt?

01:25:47.360 Oh, it's OK to be scared and to have some of those big feelings, Big Bird.

01:25:51.100 Can I tell you something? I'm a grown up and I don't really like needles either.

01:25:55.680 In fact, even as an adult, I don't like to look when the doctor puts that shot in my arm.

01:26:01.080 And I'm the same way too, Big Bird.

01:26:03.260 But you're a doctor.

01:26:05.020 Yeah, but, you know, even some doctors don't like getting shots.

01:26:08.700 Luckily, there are ways that we can manage some of those big feelings.

01:26:13.340 Oh, yeah. You know, one thing that I find is maybe singing a song to distract yourself.

01:26:17.380 Maybe the ABCs while you're getting your shot.

01:26:19.580 You know what I like to do? I like to bring something from home that might make me feel safe, like a favorite toy, maybe.

01:26:26.980 Is it over? Is it over?

01:26:29.920 It's never over. It's never over.

01:26:31.820 This is I think people are calling it propaganda.

01:26:37.240 I mean, I guess they did it with Big Bird and the measles back in the 70s.

01:26:40.700 You were not even close to being conceived then.

01:26:43.300 I was in a stroller.

01:26:45.500 But this is a thing and this is the way.

01:26:47.700 So if they can't force you into it, they're going to guilt you into it.

01:26:50.140 I guess that's OK. I'd rather be guilted than forced by a court.

01:26:53.640 Well, yeah.

01:26:54.140 But the other weird thing about that is it's clearly geared at parents and not children.

01:26:58.580 And so in the beginning where Granny Bird is saying, you know, I asked all of my questions and I've made my decision.

01:27:04.560 And it's like, well, that's clearly not for the children.

01:27:06.780 That's for the parents watching.

01:27:08.540 And so they are now using, you know, anthropomorphic puppets to influence parents' decision with state-sponsored television.

01:27:16.940 I guess they're trying to get at the children watching CNN in the morning, which is like those kids have much bigger problems than the vaccine on their hand.

01:27:23.740 This is not a thing.

01:27:27.380 But I will say, I mean, already you're seeing vaccine mandates for the young ones for between 5 and 11.

01:27:33.720 And that's that's crazy.

01:27:35.280 I mean, that is truly crazy.

01:27:36.920 I mean, I personally emailed the head of our school and said, this is the hell a lot of us will die on.

01:27:41.620 Because, look, I'm not saying never, but there's no way I'm offering my eight-year-old up first in the first round before this thing's even got.

01:27:48.420 It's it's it's the emergency authorization.

01:27:50.740 It's not even the permanent authorization.

01:27:52.660 But these schools are so in love with these mandatory vaccines.

01:27:57.060 More and more it's happening.

01:27:58.840 And I do wonder whether that's going to be reflected in in those polls we were talking about or in those on that voting day next November, too.

01:28:06.040 I don't think you are alone at all.

01:28:09.000 I think that's probably going to be a very common sentiment.

01:28:12.060 I'm sure it already is around the country.

01:28:14.740 You can it's perfectly understandable and reasonable to anybody who doesn't live in the Fauci echo chamber in the Fauci bubble and has sort of been able to take a breath and say, listen, it's true.

01:28:25.500 You know, as an adult, I'm comfortable and fine.

01:28:28.080 But for kids, it's an entirely different question.

01:28:30.440 And so, yeah, I think this is sort of a big jumping the shark moment, a big overreach moment for the Biden administration.

01:28:36.740 And it's also amazing on the left that their their labor coalition, where you have so many unions that are upset with this.

01:28:43.820 I mean, there's just normal people around the country that are upset with this and they have no voice on the contemporary left or in elite media at all.

01:28:50.480 And so that's how they that's how Democrats, establishment Democrats and journalists lose sight of what is popular and what is reasonable because they don't listen to anybody who disagrees.

01:29:01.860 Exactly right.

01:29:02.520 It's one thing to say it's not great even to mandate it for adults, in my view, but it's quite another to say you must stick this needle in your five year old's arm before we've had adequate testing.

01:29:13.500 Ask any doctor, honestly, like doctors off camera will tell you the truth, which is there wasn't a big enough sample size.

01:29:20.480 And look, maybe you want to go, you know, six months into it.

01:29:23.780 I get that.

01:29:24.800 But to go first.

01:29:26.160 All right.

01:29:26.440 If that's your choice, that's your choice.

01:29:27.680 But you're not making my kid go first.

01:29:29.020 You are not making my kid or anybody else's kid go at the front of the line.

01:29:32.700 It's it's not OK.

01:29:33.720 Anyway, Emily, what a pleasure.

01:29:35.060 I seriously love the podcast with you at it.

01:29:37.440 I love the topics you choose, the guests that you have on and you do a great interview.

01:29:41.620 So it's fun getting to know you.

01:29:42.720 You are too kind.

01:29:43.840 I love your show and I appreciate it.

01:29:46.560 Oh, thank you.

01:29:47.360 Well, meantime, check us out on YouTube dot com slash Megan Kelly. 0.96

01:29:51.420 It's always fun to see the new subscribers and download the show as well as a podcast.

01:29:54.900 Thanks for listening.

01:29:56.400 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

01:29:58.760 No BS, no agenda and no fear.

01:30:02.020 Thanks for listening.

The Megyn Kelly Show - November 08, 2021

Don Lemon's Accuser Speaks Out and the Mediocrity of the Elites, with Dustin Hice and Emily Jashinsky ｜ Ep. 198

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