The Megyn Kelly Show - Dueling Town Halls, with Marc Thiessen, Bob Beckel, and Frank Luntz

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00:00:30.580 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show,

00:00:32.580 your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:37.220 Today, 18 days out from Election Day,

00:00:40.020 the state of the presidential race,

00:00:42.100 town halls, the polls, and much, much more.

00:00:45.080 Coming up, we've got Mark Thiessen, Bob Beckel,

00:00:47.540 and Frank Lunds, three of my favorites,

00:00:49.820 for news and all the analysis you need.

00:00:56.700 Hey, everyone, it's Megyn Kelly.

00:00:58.700 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:00.000 Well, we've got a packed hour coming up for you today with all reactions to the town halls last night

00:01:04.260 and the latest on the state of the race.

00:01:07.040 Can we trust the polls?

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00:02:13.720 Okay, and now I want to bring in Mark Thiessen,

00:02:16.340 resident fellow at AEI and co-host of AEI's podcast,

00:02:20.940 What the Hell is Going On?,

00:02:22.380 which is a great name for a podcast, Mark.

00:02:25.480 It's so good to talk to you.

00:02:27.380 Thank you for being here.

00:02:29.000 Oh, it's so great to be back on the air with you, Megan.

00:02:31.240 Oh, honestly, Mark and I had a lot of good times on The Kelly File and even before,

00:02:34.520 and he was always super smart with his little clipboard

00:02:37.020 and became a television star.

00:02:39.060 We worked together on The Kelly File,

00:02:41.080 and then everyone tried to steal him from me,

00:02:42.640 and I was like, back off.

00:02:43.640 He's mine.

00:02:45.080 Okay, so great to have you back again.

00:02:47.260 Let's talk, first of all, about what we saw last night,

00:02:49.600 the dueling town halls.

00:02:51.220 What are your reactions to what we witnessed?

00:02:54.020 Well, first of all,

00:02:55.380 the fact that we had dueling town halls is a debacle.

00:02:58.840 You know, the Commission on Presidential Debates

00:03:01.520 has not exactly clothed itself in quality this time around.

00:03:06.980 The reason we had this is because they went in

00:03:09.300 and unilaterally decided that we were going to have a virtual debate,

00:03:13.740 which, of course, Donald Trump doesn't want to have a virtual debate

00:03:15.980 because they're going to cut him off.

00:03:18.320 You know, they're going to put too much control in the hands of the moderator.

00:03:22.440 And it wasn't necessary.

00:03:24.180 And it turned out it wasn't necessary at all.

00:03:26.800 And so you had the Commission on Presidential Debates.

00:03:29.720 Instead of going to the campaigns and saying,

00:03:31.340 hey, you know, we've got this new situation.

00:03:32.700 How do you feel?

00:03:33.280 Let's work it out.

00:03:34.260 They just sort of unilaterally decide this.

00:03:36.060 And then, oh, by the way, their debate moderator, Steve Scully,

00:03:39.540 you know, fakes a, you know, has a stupid tweet

00:03:43.520 and then fakes that, you know, he was hacked.

00:03:46.820 So, I mean, this is just-

00:03:47.820 Just to refresh the audience if they didn't see that.

00:03:50.600 So the Presidential Debate Commission decides to, you know,

00:03:53.140 go the five-year-old route and play doctor.

00:03:55.740 They just had to play doctor and decide Trump preemptively

00:03:58.420 cannot do this debate like a week in advance.

00:04:00.860 Meanwhile, he was symptom-free several dates prior to the date

00:04:04.540 the debate would have happened.

00:04:06.160 And then Steve Scully of C-SPAN is supposed to moderate the thing.

00:04:09.200 It comes out, he meant to DM, like private message,

00:04:12.680 Scaramucci, one of Trump's arch enemies,

00:04:15.540 about the upcoming debate when he still thought it was on

00:04:17.780 and says, oh, should I do it?

00:04:19.620 Should I respond to Trump on something?

00:04:21.520 When he gets caught and realizes he sent it out to the world

00:04:24.020 instead of a private message, he lied and said, oh, I was hacked.

00:04:28.120 And I tweeted out right that day, they can't possibly go with this.

00:04:31.220 This is an obvious lie.

00:04:32.200 And sure enough, then they uncovered that back in 2012 and 2013,

00:04:35.760 he sent out stupid tweets and guess what he said?

00:04:38.120 I was hacked.

00:04:38.840 I was hacked.

00:04:39.780 Both times.

00:04:40.600 Here's a word to the wise.

00:04:41.620 Unless it's some massive hacking like we saw with Bill Gates

00:04:44.020 and all these really super rich, famous people,

00:04:46.380 they haven't been hacked.

00:04:47.500 Hacking is a lie.

00:04:48.580 Nine times out of ten, they use it as an excuse

00:04:50.940 to cover up their own bad behavior,

00:04:52.500 as we saw with Joy Reid, who doubled down on her hacking lie

00:04:56.600 and said the FBI was investigating her fake hacking

00:04:59.020 under her LGBT, you know, anti-LGBTQ posts.

00:05:03.700 And weirdly, the FBI has never come up with a culprit.

00:05:06.460 So anyway, I digress.

00:05:07.560 But Steve Scully has been embarrassed.

00:05:09.060 He's been indefinitely suspended from C-SPAN,

00:05:11.520 which was the right thing for them to do.

00:05:13.380 And the whole second debate, start to finish,

00:05:16.160 that never happened, was a debacle,

00:05:18.380 which leads us to last night in the dueling town halls.

00:05:20.660 I was watching, so I watched Trump from the hour of eight to nine,

00:05:24.600 and then I watched Biden from nine to ten.

00:05:26.760 And I'll tell you what I thought.

00:05:29.200 I did think that Savannah Guthrie was more of a debater

00:05:32.360 than she was a moderator.

00:05:33.960 I thought she was all over Trump.

00:05:35.880 And I think there is a role for the moderator to play

00:05:38.440 in pressing a candidate for real answers and fact-checking.

00:05:41.900 But to me, she looked more like his debate opponent.

00:05:44.760 And my overall impression was she was trying to service

00:05:48.020 not the audience at home,

00:05:49.140 but the audience within NBC that was ticked off.

00:05:53.000 Trump was even on their air.

00:05:54.420 What did you think?

00:05:56.360 I couldn't agree with you more.

00:05:58.600 You know, I think Trump put out a statement afterwards

00:06:01.060 that he roundly defeated his opponent, Savannah Guthrie.

00:06:04.160 So, you know, yes, absolutely.

00:06:06.720 And, you know, compared to George Stephanopoulos,

00:06:08.660 who, you know, did the role of a moderator,

00:06:12.120 which is what he's supposed to do,

00:06:13.140 which is ask questions and let the candidates speak.

00:06:15.120 I mean, at one point, Savannah Guthrie even, like, said to Trump,

00:06:17.440 like, you're not, you're the president of the United States.

00:06:19.440 You're not somebody's crazy uncle.

00:06:20.760 It's like, that's not a moderator question.

00:06:23.840 That's not a neutral question.

00:06:25.080 And what was sad about it was, honestly,

00:06:27.340 was that the questions from the audience were really good.

00:06:30.340 I mean, normal Americans have interesting questions to ask.

00:06:33.460 And it's always these, you know,

00:06:34.640 the high-paid journalists who think they're smarter than everybody else,

00:06:38.600 who have to insert themselves into every interaction.

00:06:42.040 Just let him take questions from normal Americans.

00:06:44.220 And the problem is also is that, you know,

00:06:46.000 as you saw from my interview with Donald Trump,

00:06:47.740 I just had him on our podcast,

00:06:50.120 that when he's having sort of a one-on-one conversation,

00:06:53.920 he actually is, he can be quite charming.

00:06:56.860 He has a good interaction with people,

00:06:59.380 and he seemed to be having really good interactions with the voters.

00:07:02.140 And then she'd jump in every, every few minutes saying,

00:07:04.920 well, you didn't really answer their question or, you know,

00:07:06.840 or trying to press him on.

00:07:08.580 And it was just sort of very disconcerting.

00:07:10.880 To me, you could see, you know,

00:07:12.540 you could see the left-wing bias in the way the whole thing was approached

00:07:15.500 because the audience didn't even get to speak until 20 minutes into the town hall.

00:07:19.440 It was all her.

00:07:20.080 It was like, you know,

00:07:21.160 and she was peppering him with questions about,

00:07:23.420 when was the last time you took a COVID test before the debate?

00:07:25.700 Why haven't you condemned white supremacy?

00:07:27.340 Why haven't you condemned the QAnon theory about satanic cults and pedophilia?

00:07:30.460 Yeah. You're not the crazy uncle, blah, blah, blah.

00:07:32.800 Now contrast that with Lester Holtz's town hall with Joe Biden.

00:07:35.740 I just pulled the transcript, just looked at a few of the questions here.

00:07:39.320 So when you heard the president was infected with COVID,

00:07:43.040 were you surprised?

00:07:44.740 Did you have a moment of pause, of concern for your safety?

00:07:48.980 If you become president, can you pledge transparency about your health?

00:07:52.300 I mean, it's like the kid glove approach versus the battering ram with the boxing gloves on.

00:07:59.120 It was pretty stark, the contrast.

00:08:00.980 So how did Trump do it?

00:08:03.080 Well, it's just, it also just is culmination of four years of his presidency.

00:08:07.540 I mean, it's just been a battering ram nonstop,

00:08:09.820 you know, from the Mueller probe to the impeachment to everything else.

00:08:14.160 I thought he, I thought he did pretty well.

00:08:17.420 I thought that he, he, again, when he was interacting with, with the audience,

00:08:22.480 he, he, he had good answers and, and, and that's the side of the president people want to see

00:08:28.280 and that he wants to get across.

00:08:30.060 And it's just this hot, this, an ending hostility.

00:08:33.460 This is just energizing his base.

00:08:36.500 I don't know whether his base is going to be enough for him to win a second term,

00:08:39.480 but every, this, they, what they, what Savannah Guthrie and the NBC folks

00:08:44.400 and all the, all the mainstream media don't understand that every time they do this to

00:08:47.660 Donald Trump, it just helps him because it just shows the way.

00:08:50.820 And here you had literally split screen comparison, you know,

00:08:54.420 a textbook example of the bias that he faces every day when he's trying to do his job.

00:08:59.340 So from that standpoint, he may have done better in not choosing to debate because I don't know,

00:09:04.900 I can't imagine Steve Scully would have been quite that activist.

00:09:07.580 Um, but let me ask you about the white supremacy question because once again,

00:09:11.840 once again, for the 10,000th time he gets asked this.

00:09:16.520 And it's amazing to me, even after the blowback in the, in the other debate about how he has

00:09:21.300 answered this repeatedly, that she asked it again.

00:09:24.420 Like it hasn't, hasn't been asked and answered.

00:09:27.280 Let me play it for the audience.

00:09:28.480 Listen, you were asked point blank to denounce white supremacy in the moment you didn't,

00:09:34.480 you asked some follow-up questions who specifically a couple of days later on a

00:09:39.180 different show, you denounced white supremacy.

00:09:41.480 My question to you is, you've done this to me and everybody, I denounce white supremacy.

00:09:47.160 Okay.

00:09:47.420 You did two days later.

00:09:48.360 I denounced white supremacy for years, but you always do it.

00:09:51.800 You always start off with a question.

00:09:53.460 You didn't ask Joe Biden whether or not he denounces Antifa.

00:09:57.300 I watched him on the same basic show with Lester Holt and he was asking questions like Biden was a child.

00:10:03.720 Well, so this is a little bit of a dodge.

00:10:06.380 Are you listening?

00:10:07.340 I denounce white supremacy.

00:10:09.200 What's your next question?

00:10:10.220 Do you feel, it feels sometimes.

00:10:12.160 So it's a dodge.

00:10:13.160 She said it was a dodge by him.

00:10:14.540 Meanwhile, the guy has answered it so many times, Mark.

00:10:17.620 It's like, what's going on here?

00:10:20.520 He said, he said it four times last night.

00:10:22.500 I mean, and, and she, and he's a hundred percent right.

00:10:25.220 They don't ask Joe Biden to denounce Antifa.

00:10:27.840 You know, the, these people that are, that are running around.

00:10:30.560 And by the way, Antifa is the moral equivalent of neo-Nazis.

00:10:33.520 You know, neo-Nazis are people who use terrorist violence to advance a white supremacist, a Nazi agenda.

00:10:40.720 Antifa are Marxists.

00:10:42.340 They're, they're, they're literally also the followers of a hateful ideology.

00:10:45.580 The Leninist Marx, they're self-described Marxist Leninists.

00:10:49.600 And they're running around beating, beating people.

00:10:52.240 And there's quite frankly, a lot more of them out there causing violence right now at this very moment than there are on the white supremacist side.

00:10:58.740 And, and no one asked Joe Biden about that.

00:11:00.960 Why did it, why did they not ask him?

00:11:02.760 So I think Trump has a very valid point, but again, this stuff helps him.

00:11:07.320 You know, his, his, his voters out there are just like, we can't let these people win.

00:11:11.240 They're, they're, they're trying to destroy him.

00:11:13.080 They've been trying to destroy him for four years.

00:11:14.920 His voters are going to crawl over broken glass to get to the polls on election day.

00:11:20.080 Well, that's, that's one of the things I saw last night.

00:11:22.180 I was watching just YouTube had a split screen of how many people were watching the NBC debate with Trump and how many people were watching Biden.

00:11:29.600 It was like 10 times as many were tuning into Trump.

00:11:32.960 Now we'll get the ratings shortly, but there's zero doubt, right?

00:11:36.360 That Trump is going to win in the ratings war.

00:11:38.060 He's just more interesting television.

00:11:40.400 And, but it does speak to enthusiasm to something.

00:11:43.500 I mean, Trump's voters are more motivated than ever to get out there for him.

00:11:49.100 And Biden's voters, they don't so much, according to the polls, love Biden so much as hate Trump.

00:11:53.960 And the real question is how many are on both sides?

00:11:57.460 Well, you know, it's an interesting thing he said in my interview on our, on our podcast.

00:12:01.060 He said that negative enthusiasm doesn't win elections.

00:12:04.900 That positive enthusiasm wins elections.

00:12:07.040 That they are there, that his voters are, are backing him.

00:12:10.240 They love him.

00:12:11.080 Joe Biden's voters are not voting because they love Joe Biden.

00:12:14.820 They're voting because they hate Trump.

00:12:16.380 And negative enthusiasm doesn't, he said, doesn't win elections.

00:12:19.780 Now there's, there's truth to that.

00:12:21.480 I remember in 2012, and you remember, because we were debating and talking about it all the time on the Kelly file, that, you know, Mitt Romney would be president today if negative enthusiasm won elections.

00:12:30.880 So the Tea Party movement had risen up.

00:12:33.120 They couldn't stand President Obama.

00:12:35.680 They wanted to drive him out of office.

00:12:38.040 And, you know, but nobody was enthusiastic about Mitt Romney.

00:12:41.160 Nobody was, you know, can't wait till Mitt Romney's president so we can, we can really set this country straight.

00:12:45.940 There weren't a lot of people like that.

00:12:47.360 And he didn't win.

00:12:48.120 Now, clearly, this election is wide.

00:12:52.400 The gap is widening.

00:12:53.520 And it looks like Trump is behind.

00:12:55.020 But it'll be fascinating to see whether that whole, that same thing holds true, that negative enthusiasm tends to not win elections.

00:13:01.860 Well, and he also made the case.

00:13:03.360 People have to rally around a positive agenda.

00:13:05.260 He made the case on your podcast in his interview with you, too, about how bringing people back to the economy and how strong it was before COVID and how he's the person to rebuild it.

00:13:16.380 And when you do get reminded of, you know, the record low unemployment and where the stock market was, and actually it's gone back up again.

00:13:22.040 I mean, that's a good case for Trump that, you know, he's been hit with a pandemic.

00:13:25.300 And I realize the left says he could have handled it entirely differently.

00:13:28.160 And there seems to be some people on the right who agree with that, too.

00:13:31.360 But for him to get back to remember how good your pocketbook was, especially because, as you pointed out, the the people who say their life is better off four years now versus four years ago is high.

00:13:44.860 It it it portends very well for Trump.

00:13:48.820 It's actually a record.

00:13:50.140 So he said there's Gallup poll came out.

00:13:52.800 It says 56 percent of Americans say they are better off now than they were four years ago.

00:13:56.820 That is in the middle of a pandemic that has sparked the worst economic worst pandemic since 1918 sparked by the which created the worst economic crisis since the 1930s and also the worst racial unrest in the 19 since the 1960s.

00:14:11.520 So that is a stunning figure.

00:14:12.980 If you compare that to previous presidents going into who are running for a second term, Barack Obama, I think, had 44 percent said they were better off than they were four years ago.

00:14:22.300 George W. Bush in 2004, it was 47 percent.

00:14:25.080 Ronald Reagan, morning in America, it was like 40, 48 percent.

00:14:29.500 So this is a stunning number.

00:14:31.660 And one of the things I asked him in our interview was why, you know, see, 56 percent of Americans say they're better off now than they were four years ago.

00:14:39.560 But only 42 percent say they're going to give you a second term.

00:14:42.380 Why is that?

00:14:43.360 What can you do to say to win those people?

00:14:45.160 And I think, honestly, this is going to be the interesting test, is that a lot of people like Donald Trump's policies, but don't like Donald Trump.

00:14:55.080 Right. They approve of his stewardship of the economy.

00:14:58.540 They don't approve of his behavior.

00:15:00.000 And there's this level of Trump exhaustion in the country after four years.

00:15:03.960 And it's not entirely his fault.

00:15:05.860 It's it's the it's the the impeachment and the and the Russia probe and everything else.

00:15:10.680 And then the things like his first debate performance, which just, you know, make people want to tear their hair out.

00:15:16.720 And so the question is, are they comfortable enough with Joe Biden that they think, well, I did like what Donald Trump did for me, but I just can't take four more years of this.

00:15:26.680 And he needs to do what he needs to do, what he hasn't been doing and what he needs to do in the final weeks is convince those people that the next four years won't be like the last four years on that front, that you can have the good the things you like about the Trump presidency.

00:15:41.340 But we're not going to have four more years of rancor.

00:15:44.200 And he tried and he made that case on our podcast.

00:15:46.720 He said that, look, Trump Trump is who he is.

00:15:49.680 I mean, the thought that he's going to change his stripes going into a second term.

00:15:53.180 I don't know.

00:15:54.380 And I my own personal opinion, I'm not really a political advisor, but is he should just tout his record, just tout his record.

00:16:00.840 No, covid was not handled perfectly.

00:16:02.540 By the way, it was handled really badly by a bunch of Democratic governors, too.

00:16:06.440 But when you look at how he's handled the economy, it's hard to argue against the numbers, you know, pre covid and the thought that he could get it back.

00:16:14.260 I don't know.

00:16:14.700 I think this is why dumb tweets like maybe bin Laden wasn't killed by SEAL Team 6.

00:16:20.680 Oh, I know.

00:16:21.480 Are utterly unhelpful.

00:16:23.180 I agree with you 100 percent, Megan.

00:16:26.400 But but it's two things.

00:16:27.840 It's his dumb tweets and his and things he says and also just the constant attacks on him.

00:16:33.840 Right. The constant effort.

00:16:35.100 I mean, from day one, trying to bring down his presidency, undo the 2016 election, which is what was what's been going on.

00:16:41.280 What he said to me was that he thought that after impeachment, there was about a month or two when Democrats started coming up to him and saying, OK, let's try and get some stuff done together.

00:16:51.300 You know, it seemed like it was finally over the that and then covid came and they and they saw that he was weakened and they saw maybe we can win this after all and we can destroy him.

00:17:01.660 So he thinks that at least on their side, that if he wins this election, they're going to have to accept that he's president finally and that there's going to be a chance for more bipartisanship.

00:17:11.960 That doesn't mean he's not going to be Donald Trump and he's not going to do what he does.

00:17:15.760 And that's never going to change.

00:17:17.920 But just it would be nice to think that maybe people could put aside their their animus and actually try and put the American people first for a change.

00:17:25.600 Well, and I think, you know, when he gets out here, out there, he made a he gave a speech, I think, in Pennsylvania the other night where he and he's trailing with suburban women in states like Pennsylvania, if you believe the polls.

00:17:36.360 And he said, why won't you like me?

00:17:39.180 Please like me.

00:17:41.180 I laughed out loud.

00:17:43.500 It made me laugh out loud because Trump that that's the Trump that works.

00:17:47.660 The self-deprecating, funny, yes, you know, charming Trump, as opposed to the weird tweeter Trump, Trump, you know, who's out there about the seal team six.

00:17:56.500 Like he should be going with that stuff, like an acknowledgement that maybe he's behind in certain polls or with certain groups.

00:18:02.080 And just to remind people, like, look, I realize I'm not the smoothest guy.

00:18:06.260 I realize I've got some tough edges, but that's what you need.

00:18:09.320 And look at your pocketbook.

00:18:10.900 And, you know, who do you trust?

00:18:12.380 Biden's going to lock you up, you know, in the economy up for the next four years.

00:18:15.380 And I'm going to get it.

00:18:16.320 That's great.

00:18:17.000 He should keep doing that.

00:18:18.520 Of course, the Internet melted down because I said something kind about Trump.

00:18:21.320 Well, guess what?

00:18:22.460 He can be quite charming when he turns it on.

00:18:24.440 And he's got three more weeks to turn it on in full.

00:18:27.800 You're 100 percent right.

00:18:29.160 You know, it's funny.

00:18:29.760 If you go back to 2004, to Bush's reelection, his convention speech, he had a section in there because there were a lot of people who were put off by Trump by Bush's swagger.

00:18:39.340 Right.

00:18:39.740 And so he had this he had this great little line where he says, I know that, you know, I'm paraphrasing now, but I know that, you know, my personality.

00:18:46.980 Allie wrote people said the wrong way.

00:18:48.660 Some people say I have a certain swagger in Texas.

00:18:51.000 We call that walking.

00:18:51.920 And, you know, if I'm a little bit too blunt sometimes, blame that white haired lady in the in the in the in the rafters, you know, and it brought the house down.

00:18:59.960 But it was an acknowledgment to people like, I get it.

00:19:03.060 I know that you don't like certain things about me.

00:19:06.280 And I'm you know, Donald Trump should should have done and still could do something like that, saying, look, I'm I'm a New Yorker.

00:19:13.540 I'm brash.

00:19:14.520 I say what I say, what I mean.

00:19:17.020 I know that rubs some people the wrong way.

00:19:18.620 But the question is, do you want the economy to come back the way it was or do you want to go back to the people who were were you weren't happy with four years ago?

00:19:27.920 Because that's the choice.

00:19:29.180 Right.

00:19:29.920 Just a nod to that that lets people have the permission structure to say, OK, he gets it.

00:19:34.620 He knows he annoys me.

00:19:35.660 So I can vote my own self-interest.

00:19:38.500 Yeah.

00:19:38.620 I don't have to have dinner with him every night.

00:19:40.380 I have to have him working to keep the economy going.

00:19:42.820 So I've got money in my pocket.

00:19:44.140 Exactly.

00:19:44.780 OK, now I want to we're going to ask Mark about what's happening at the Amy Coney Barrett hearings, because there were some absurd moments over the past day or two.

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00:21:10.280 Okay.

00:21:11.060 Mark, we have this feature called Sound Up here on The Megyn Kelly Show where we talk about sound bites that are making the news.

00:21:18.060 And I've been watching this Amy Coney Barrett hearing with horror.

00:21:21.740 And I wanted to ask you about a couple – so Spartacus is back, Cory Booker, Senator Booker, who's always – he's always looking to make it about himself.

00:21:31.760 I don't know if he's crying in this clip.

00:21:34.380 I want your opinion on this exchange that he had.

00:21:37.280 I think it was on Thursday.

00:21:39.740 Listen.

00:21:39.880 You've already spoken towards issues of racism and how you deplore it.

00:21:45.300 But I want to just ask you very simply, and I imagine you'll give me a very short, resolute answer.

00:21:51.500 But you condemn white supremacy, correct?

00:21:54.280 Yes.

00:21:54.680 Thank you.

00:21:56.740 I'm glad to see that you said that.

00:21:58.260 I wish our president would say that so resolutely and unequivocally as well.

00:22:03.240 But we are at a time that Americans are literally fearful because their president cannot do that in the resolute manner in which you did.

00:22:11.660 I'm sorry that that question had to even be asked at this time.

00:22:18.260 Now, first of all, there's no crying in Senate confirmation hearings.

00:22:21.980 That's just a rule.

00:22:22.700 There's no crying.

00:22:23.560 There's no crying in baseball.

00:22:24.860 No crying, sir.

00:22:26.400 She's just crying.

00:22:27.640 It's one of the greatest movies.

00:22:29.540 It's a league of their own.

00:22:31.280 But so what did you make?

00:22:32.520 I mean, again, again.

00:22:34.720 And now with Amy Coney Barrett, like there's not even there's no allegation that Amy Coney Barrett has any inclination towards white super.

00:22:42.380 What is that about?

00:22:44.580 I think he's crying because Amy Coney Barrett is going to be confirmed and there's nothing he can do about it.

00:22:49.560 I mean, that's just a simple fact.

00:22:50.960 I mean, the Democrats are in a box of their own making.

00:22:55.380 So they made the catastrophic decision because in a peak of a peak of anger over over Neil, over the Gumeric Garland, the Republicans blocking Garland.

00:23:06.580 When Neil Gorsuch was nominated, they filibustered him.

00:23:10.480 He was the most qualified person put up to the Supreme Court.

00:23:14.560 Even liberals came out in favor of him, like Neil Katyal and others, and they still filibustered him.

00:23:22.640 If they hadn't filibustered Neil Gorsuch, Republicans would have never gotten rid of the filibuster for Supreme Court justices.

00:23:28.540 If they hadn't gotten the filibuster, then Brett Kavanaugh would not be on the court today because he couldn't get 60 votes.

00:23:36.300 And guess what?

00:23:37.060 Amy Coney Barrett would not be about to be put on the Supreme Court because they couldn't get 60 votes for her.

00:23:41.240 So this is something that the Democrats did to themselves.

00:23:45.320 If they had kept that 60 vote threshold, Kavanaugh would have gone down and this wouldn't be possible today.

00:23:52.660 So, yeah, I understand why he's crying.

00:23:55.720 I get why he's crying.

00:23:56.600 I'd be crying if I was as dumb as they were, too.

00:23:59.540 Okay.

00:24:00.100 It really wasn't smart.

00:24:01.160 That's just the bottom line.

00:24:02.020 Okay.

00:24:02.160 Enter Kamala Harris, who decided to do the hearing remotely and decided to try to set Amy Coney Barrett up.

00:24:11.000 Listen.

00:24:11.800 Do you accept that COVID-19 is infectious?

00:24:16.840 I think, yes, I do accept that COVID-19 is infectious.

00:24:20.400 That's something of which I feel like, you know, we could say you take judicial notice of.

00:24:24.380 It's an obvious fact.

00:24:25.360 Yes.

00:24:26.320 Do you accept that smoking causes cancer?

00:24:28.200 I'm not sure exactly where you're going with this, but, you know, the notice that smoking comes in.

00:24:34.220 It's just a question.

00:24:34.560 The question is what it is.

00:24:35.800 You can answer it if you believe it.

00:24:37.660 Yes or no.

00:24:38.400 Senator Harris, yes, every package of cigarettes warns that smoking causes cancer.

00:24:44.500 And do you believe that climate change is happening and is threatening the air we breathe and the water we drink?

00:24:51.360 Senator, again, I was wondering where you were going with that.

00:24:54.960 But you have asked me a series of questions like that are completely uncontroversial, like whether COVID-19 is infectious, whether smoking causes cancer, and then trying to analogize that to eliciting an opinion on me that is a very contentious matter, opinion from me that is on a very contentious matter of public debate.

00:25:13.900 And I will not do that.

00:25:14.940 I will not express a view on a matter of public policy, especially one that is politically controversial, because that's inconsistent with the judicial role, as I have explained.

00:25:23.780 Thank you.

00:25:24.120 Thank you, Judge Barrett.

00:25:25.900 And basically said, you know, no, for the record, you didn't answer that.

00:25:28.680 You wouldn't say.

00:25:29.280 I mean, first of all, the approach to her, right, is as if Amy Coney Barrett is a defendant in a criminal case.

00:25:35.260 Right.

00:25:35.420 I mean, she's she's an esteemed jurist.

00:25:38.560 She's she's been a Notre Dame professor.

00:25:41.160 She's adopted two children.

00:25:42.720 She has said it's like, why are we treating her like she's some troll who we need to berate?

00:25:47.540 It's like, I don't know.

00:25:49.040 What did you think?

00:25:50.540 I think that she is so smart.

00:25:52.260 And the way she saw she you just watch watch her mind working and she saw where this was going.

00:25:58.320 She was ready for it.

00:25:59.460 And she didn't take the bait.

00:26:00.500 You know, I think the best comment on Twitter I saw was that I feel sorry for Amy Coney Barrett's husband because he obviously never wins any arguments at home.

00:26:09.000 You know, it's just she's so calm, so collected, didn't take the bait.

00:26:14.180 She's so smart.

00:26:15.800 And, you know, she's going to be a fantastic Supreme Court justice.

00:26:19.380 And honestly, to equate it, to equate climate change, which is controversial.

00:26:23.640 There are a lot of differing opinions on that to whether cigarettes cause cancer, which, as Barrett points out, is written right on their packs.

00:26:32.500 It's just absurd.

00:26:34.400 Talk about I mean, in in the law, you get an objection to improper impeachment and it would be sustained.

00:26:40.320 OK, one more one more greatest hit for you from who else?

00:26:43.640 But Maisie Hirono, who decided to go the are you bigoted way?

00:26:48.800 Listen, not once, but twice you use the term sexual preference to describe those in the LGBTQ community.

00:26:59.140 And let me make clear, sexual preference is an offensive and outdated term.

00:27:05.560 It is used by anti LGBTQ activists to suggest that sexual orientation is a choice.

00:27:12.580 It is not. Sexual orientation is a key part of a person's identity.

00:27:18.320 That sexual orientation is both a normal expression of human sexuality and immutable was a key part.

00:27:26.820 Maisie Hirono. And and sadly, and then Amy Coney Barrett apologized if she had said anything offensive.

00:27:32.800 And then that day, Miriam Webster changed the definition of sexual preference in the dictionary to note that it is, quote, offensive.

00:27:42.580 I mean, tell it to Joe Biden, who used that term earlier this year, as have half of the Americans in this country.

00:27:52.320 Yeah. And I mean, I think our friend Guy Benson tweeted out an article from The Advocate using it, you know, which is a which is a gay magazine.

00:27:59.320 Right. So Guy is openly gay.

00:28:01.880 Yes, exactly. So, I mean, this is just first of all, you know, I think this is probably a term that's been used in law on this for a long time.

00:28:10.340 It may be. I mean, it's hard to keep up with what terms are OK and are not because it's changing so constantly in the cancel culture.

00:28:16.960 So it's hard to keep to keep up.

00:28:19.340 And I guess she hadn't heard she hadn't gotten the press release that sexual preference was no longer a OK term.

00:28:26.020 But, you know, this is the same Maisie Hirono who, you know, was questioning whether, you know, whether her Catholicism disqualified her.

00:28:34.040 So it's a little bit rich for her to be suggesting that she's a bigot in any way when Maisie Hirono, you know, thinks that faithful Catholics shouldn't be serving on the on the on the as judges.

00:28:43.860 Well, and meanwhile, I mean, who can keep up? Because in today's day and age, it's like the kids are they're they're straight one day and then they're then they're pansexual the next day, meaning they they they like everybody.

00:28:55.400 They don't and you know, they haven't settled on a preference and then they're they're gay or they're like, it's like I can't keep it.

00:29:01.140 So like the kids today are telling us it might be fluid.

00:29:04.180 You know, maybe you're born with a but like maybe you could change.

00:29:07.260 Well, that's right. Yeah. Because they say gender is fluid, right?

00:29:09.720 Gender is fluid. Gender is not determined on birth.

00:29:12.020 Fluid preference could be, you know, your sexual preference could be fluid, too.

00:29:14.980 So I don't know. Maybe it's her her disdain, like her dripping sanctimony and speaking to Amy Coney Barrett as though she's, you know, she's sitting as though Amy Coney Barrett is sitting there in a, you know, in a white hat with a white robe.

00:29:27.880 And it's like she said sexual preference. Calm down.

00:29:31.420 I just I I hate these hearings because they always make me want to punch somebody in the face.

00:29:36.920 I really that no one gets to me like lawmakers, like stupid lawmakers get to me.

00:29:40.800 And that's what you're seeing. A lot of stupid lawmakers trying to score political points.

00:29:44.660 But the American public are too smart for them. And here's the bottom line.

00:29:47.780 Amy Coney Barrett is getting confirmed. I'll give you the last word.

00:29:50.660 You you must be very frustrated then because there's a lot of stupid lawmakers.

00:29:54.240 But all I could say, Megan, is, you know, all I could say, Megan, is when the last time we had a Supreme Court justice hearing, it was the Kavanaugh hearings.

00:30:04.100 And compared to that, this was just like a is it was a walk in the park.

00:30:09.100 So, you know, I think I think they realized that what they did to Brett Kavanaugh cost them control of the Senate.

00:30:15.660 They lost at least like we can document three Senate seats where the Kavanaugh hearings were the deciding factor that cost them Senate sitting Democratic senators.

00:30:24.780 And so they realized if they went after Amy Coney Barrett the way they did Kavanaugh, they were going to they were going to blow their chances in this election.

00:30:32.720 So they decided to stand down. So this is their way of looking tough while they're throwing in the white towel.

00:30:38.520 And I can I'll take it.

00:30:40.560 Yeah, exactly. Mark Thiessen, such a pleasure.

00:30:43.440 Great to be on with you, Megan. Thank you.

00:30:46.480 See you soon, I hope. OK, coming up in a minute, we have Bob Beckel joining us here on The Megan Kelly Show,

00:30:51.580 along with Frank Luntz, who did a focus group last night on What We Witnessed.

00:30:55.080 And they've got some thoughts on the moderation. Stay tuned.

00:31:00.280 Joining me now, Bob Beckel, Bob Beckel, president of The Bobcast, which I love, Bob.

00:31:06.460 So good to have you here. How are you?

00:31:08.480 I'm fine, Megan. How about yourself?

00:31:10.620 I'm doing great. I miss seeing you.

00:31:12.960 What do you what is the Bobcast is a podcast?

00:31:15.480 Well, it was. But actually, what happened was I had just went through three back operations.

00:31:20.780 So I've been laid out for about a year now, but I'll get back at it.

00:31:27.620 I have no doubt. I've been watching this crazy election cycle and wondering what you think of it.

00:31:34.760 I have no doubt you are not a Donald Trump fan. But what do you think about where we are now?

00:31:39.760 I guess it's really just over, you know, it's about two and a half weeks away from Election Day.

00:31:44.900 What where what's the state of the race?

00:31:47.120 Well, I mean, unless they somehow defy every thing I know about campaign politics, presidential politics and polling, it's Trump is in the worst shape of anybody who's been an incumbent president trying to get reelected.

00:32:05.940 The real problem he's got is, I mean, last night was a classic example.

00:32:11.220 He sounded like he was at a rally with his people talking about those strange things.

00:32:16.620 But in a silent room like that, it just it seemed, well, seemed like Trump.

00:32:25.360 Biden, on the other hand, did his contrast, which he wanted to do, which was to sound presidential to talk about, you know, his issues, domestic and foreign policy and the virus.

00:32:37.620 So I think you saw two very different types of of American politician last night and the Biden town hall.

00:32:48.000 The Biden town hall, what I thought when I switched over was this is so boring.

00:32:52.200 And then I thought boring is exactly what millions of Americans may want.

00:32:56.780 There you go.

00:32:57.360 After after four years.

00:32:58.940 There you go.

00:33:00.140 Yeah.

00:33:00.440 Yeah.

00:33:00.900 They're just like I think people are just tired of Trump, to be honest with you.

00:33:05.540 I mean, they've it's the same thing every day.

00:33:08.940 He dominates the news and he does that by saying outrageous things and apparently doesn't care about having the checks.

00:33:16.900 And he when you look at it and with this coronavirus behind it as a backdrop, he looks even more in it.

00:33:26.700 And I think that's probably where Joe wants.

00:33:29.720 You know, I mean, I'm trying to think about what I would do if I were 11 points down in a presidential race with less than three weeks to go.

00:33:38.460 What is it that Trump could do?

00:33:40.200 Is there an October surprise?

00:33:42.040 I think the answer is no.

00:33:44.020 You know, unless he decides to go to war with somebody.

00:33:46.620 But I doubt that.

00:33:48.000 And he's not going to have a virus.

00:33:49.940 He's going to be able to say it's a bill.

00:33:51.580 And I think that last debate is probably now going to shape up to be certainly to Biden's strength on foreign policy.

00:34:01.260 But if Trump keeps going on in the manner he's going on, people just remind you about how off center he is.

00:34:09.620 But let me let me ask you about the polls, because, you know, about polls and there there was a there were a couple of good articles posted on RealClearPolitics.com today talking about how this time, last time around, October 14th through 16th, you had Monmouth, CBS News, NBC, Wall Street Journal, all showing Hillary Clinton with a double digit lead over Donald Trump.

00:34:30.200 And now some of those same polls and averages are showing Biden 11 points ahead in the race.

00:34:37.020 And then when you look at the battleground states, it shows that this time, last time around, it showed that Hillary Clinton was up three point eight in Florida.

00:34:45.400 Right now, it shows Biden up two point seven in Florida.

00:34:47.580 Michigan showed Hillary Clinton up ten point seven over Trump.

00:34:51.060 Right now shows Biden up seven point two over Trump.

00:34:54.140 North Carolina showed her up three over Trump, shows Joe Biden up three point three over Trump.

00:34:59.040 In Pennsylvania, showed her up eight point three over Trump, shows Joe Biden up seven over Trump.

00:35:04.640 Wisconsin showed her six point seven over Trump.

00:35:07.100 Now it's showing Joe Biden up six point three over Trump.

00:35:09.580 All of those are states Trump won.

00:35:12.880 Trump won.

00:35:13.980 So why should we believe he's headed for a defeat?

00:35:18.440 You know, this is a question I get asked all the time.

00:35:21.820 And I think it's it's a hangover from 2016 because it was an entirely different race, an entirely different situation.

00:35:30.220 You had a candidate on the Democratic side who, frankly, wasn't very well liked.

00:35:35.440 You went into an election day in 16 with both candidates having negatives in the mid 50s.

00:35:42.860 And so that that's one difference.

00:35:45.660 I mean, I think people they may not be overly excited by Biden, but I think they feel more comfortable about it.

00:35:53.180 I do polling myself and I like to do open and questions.

00:35:57.860 And for the first time last week, I've seen the word Joe.

00:36:02.460 You know, it's just like Joe.

00:36:04.660 I like Joe.

00:36:05.840 And before he didn't, you know, there wasn't anything personal about it.

00:36:10.260 And I think he's played very, very well.

00:36:13.200 I had a conversation with one of his people the other day.

00:36:15.760 I said, you know, Bob, we're able to accomplish this.

00:36:19.240 And despite the disease, I said, are you kidding me?

00:36:24.860 Are you kidding me?

00:36:26.340 Do you think these numbers were bigger than they are now without the virus?

00:36:30.480 Of course not.

00:36:32.040 It played everything to Biden's advantage.

00:36:35.480 He didn't have to campaign and make a lot of mistakes.

00:36:39.200 And it allowed Trump to be out there making, frankly, a fool of himself.

00:36:45.280 So that's that.

00:36:46.420 The economy was in much better shape than it is now.

00:36:51.080 But beyond that, this is Trump versus Trump.

00:36:54.600 I mean, did we get what we wanted to get for voting for this guy?

00:36:59.500 And I think the answer to that pretty much is no.

00:37:03.080 But beyond that, you know, the turnout was very low last time.

00:37:07.260 And now it's setting all kinds of records for early voting.

00:37:12.020 OK, let me ask you about that, because I don't I don't totally understand early voting and mail-in

00:37:16.720 voting and how people keep a thumb on that.

00:37:19.760 But what I read today is this is in Chicago Tribune, that they're not showing any Democratic

00:37:26.800 advantage there in Michigan and Ohio and Wisconsin.

00:37:29.980 The Republicans are keeping pace or are ahead when it comes to the early and mail-in votes.

00:37:35.760 So that that is not really the narrative we're being fed, that the Democrats are killing it

00:37:41.220 in the early vote.

00:37:41.900 And, you know, that's some sort of a sign of enthusiasm on their part.

00:37:45.680 Do you agree with that?

00:37:48.480 I agree with it partially, but only because in certain states like North Carolina, Arizona,

00:37:56.780 New Mexico, Florida, the Democrats are already very far ahead of the Republicans.

00:38:03.280 But they always are, right?

00:38:04.700 Aren't they always in North Carolina and they usually lose it?

00:38:07.540 Well, always is a general question.

00:38:13.240 I mean, can Trump lose North Carolina as a Republican?

00:38:16.720 The answer is absolutely.

00:38:19.040 Why is he behind North Carolina and Florida?

00:38:22.440 Well, one, because he is who he is.

00:38:24.940 But secondly, there's been a vast migration in four years for baby boomers retiring, going

00:38:32.320 to Florida and going North Carolina.

00:38:33.940 So I think that's a big part of it.

00:38:38.140 And the other thing is that, you know, when you talk about the Midwestern states, the reason

00:38:43.180 the Republicans are doing better in turning their ballots is there's such a minority in

00:38:48.760 those states.

00:38:50.460 You know, in Wisconsin, it was 1.3 to 1 Democratic.

00:38:55.600 And it's gotten closer to that as people have left that part of the Midwest.

00:39:03.860 So there's a lot of different atmospheres going on here.

00:39:07.500 Yeah, the states are changing.

00:39:08.740 Their makeup is changing.

00:39:10.280 But what do you what do you make of the old secret Trump vote?

00:39:13.100 Because there's an IBD TIPP poll out now saying 20 percent of registered voters.

00:39:18.920 And I realize we're supposed to be looking at likely voters, but this one polled registered

00:39:22.860 voters and 20 percent said that they are uncomfortable revealing their preferred candidate

00:39:28.780 to pollsters.

00:39:30.060 And I feel like, well, that's got to be Trump people, because is anybody embarrassed to admit

00:39:34.040 they're voting for Biden?

00:39:35.160 It's the media that shamed everybody about Donald Trump.

00:39:38.500 So, you know, Trump supporters, they say there's a there's a secret Trump vote.

00:39:42.640 There's a shy Trump vote.

00:39:43.640 I'll tell you, just as a layperson, I look at him, you know, calling in with my buddy

00:39:48.040 Mark Thiessen on his podcast, going on Newsmax, which has pretty low ratings with respect to

00:39:53.020 Chris Ruddy, who owns it, and sort of blanketing the field.

00:39:57.280 And I think that that those are not the moves of somebody who has good internal polls.

00:40:01.380 But but you tell me.

00:40:03.520 Yeah, well, I could tell you, I looked at probably, I would say, 200 different polls a

00:40:09.280 week, and I do one myself.

00:40:11.000 And I what's changed here is that the demographics of the country in four years have changed.

00:40:17.980 Baby boomers have become seniors now, the front end of them.

00:40:22.980 All the people generally who voted heavily Republican have now split their vote or slightly gone

00:40:30.360 toward Biden.

00:40:32.040 I don't know what more Trump could have done to anger the African-American community.

00:40:36.620 But when he stands there and says, I've done more than Abraham, except Abraham Lincoln,

00:40:43.080 I mean, it just and you're black and you listen to that.

00:40:47.180 You say, you guys crazy.

00:40:49.340 Right.

00:40:49.860 That's not a good line.

00:40:51.260 And one might consider that hyperbole.

00:40:54.680 You might.

00:40:55.480 But this much hyperbole is too much hyperbole.

00:41:00.020 I mean, I.

00:41:01.040 Well, can I ask you about this?

00:41:02.400 This one made some news last night with Joe Biden talking about these how cops should handle

00:41:07.400 criminals.

00:41:08.420 And he had some advice.

00:41:10.180 He had some advice for the police, which made some headlines.

00:41:13.040 Let's listen to the soundbite.

00:41:14.660 We can do this.

00:41:15.580 You can ban chokeholds.

00:41:16.780 You can but but beyond that, you have to teach people how to deescalate circumstances, deescalate.

00:41:23.940 So instead of anybody coming at you and the first thing you do is shoot to kill, you shoot

00:41:27.900 them in the leg.

00:41:28.600 There's ways you have to.

00:41:30.040 Oh, boy.

00:41:30.920 Shoot them in the leg, which is, you know, of course, immediately people responded on Twitter

00:41:34.380 law enforcement and people who understand saying, number one, you have to be an expert

00:41:38.140 marksman.

00:41:38.740 Every cop who gets attacked.

00:41:39.760 Number two, the target must not be moving in order to get them in the leg.

00:41:43.000 Number three, a leg wound does not immediately incapacitate a subject.

00:41:47.720 Even shooting them in the heart doesn't always automatically incapacitate them.

00:41:51.900 And they say this is why so many cops support Donald Trump and not Joe Biden.

00:41:58.480 What do you make of that?

00:42:00.500 Well, I think as a general rule, police believe that the Republicans are better for them than

00:42:06.800 the Democrats, because the Democrats will put regulations on them and Trump won't.

00:42:12.140 But the idea that somehow we, well, let me say this, when it first came out defunding the

00:42:21.460 police, which was a crazy idea, and Biden immediately said no.

00:42:26.320 But what he's talking about is priority for police dollars.

00:42:31.240 And there should be his point last night about rehabilitation.

00:42:35.700 You know, I'm a recovering alcoholic, and I understand the importance of that.

00:42:40.280 And you've got prisons that are stuffed with people on marijuana charges, and the countries

00:42:45.780 come around on that.

00:42:47.020 We've had wholesale shifts.

00:42:48.520 So, you know, he's been pretty good on criminal justice reform.

00:42:53.400 That's one thing that the left got from him, but doesn't really want to give him much credit

00:42:57.040 for.

00:42:58.200 Bob, let me ask you, because we've got one more debate to go, and we've got not long

00:43:01.940 until Election Day.

00:43:02.780 So how important is that last debate?

00:43:05.280 And what's your prediction for November 3rd?

00:43:07.520 Very important.

00:43:11.400 Very, very much more than they ever were before.

00:43:13.640 I think it's strictly on foreign policy.

00:43:16.240 And that is not Trump's long suit, and it is Biden.

00:43:20.520 So that's a big advantage to go in.

00:43:23.280 Now, unless Joe stumbles and has a seizure or something on the set, I think that he's got

00:43:31.100 big advantages going in.

00:43:32.980 And now, by the time he does go in, his expectations are going to be high, the way they were for

00:43:38.800 Trump in the first one.

00:43:40.640 Trump could not make those expectations, and Biden easily could.

00:43:45.320 I think that reverses some.

00:43:46.780 But in the end, Biden just knows too much.

00:43:52.540 And what's going to happen around the election, I think it's possible.

00:44:01.240 So, looking at the enthusiasm questions that we put on polls, the Democrats could actually

00:44:07.780 put Biden over the top on Election Day.

00:44:11.560 And, of course, my question then is, if they did, would Trump want to count ballots?

00:44:16.400 I have to keep ballots.

00:44:19.040 He would, right?

00:44:19.800 The answer is yes.

00:44:21.800 Yes, right.

00:44:22.920 In the end, I think Biden will get somewhere around 330 to 340 electoral votes.

00:44:28.980 That would be a trouncing.

00:44:32.920 Bob Beckel predicting a trouncing.

00:44:35.200 Bob, so good to talk to you.

00:44:36.300 Love hearing your perspective.

00:44:37.620 Let's do it again soon.

00:44:38.700 You too.

00:44:39.740 Thanks.

00:44:40.620 Bye-bye.

00:44:41.780 Joining us now in two seconds is Frank Luntz, a world-renowned pollster and political strategist.

00:44:47.620 He's going to be here in one second.

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00:46:06.600 And joining me now, political strategist and pollster Frank Luntz.

00:46:11.020 Frank, so good to have you here.

00:46:12.420 Thank you for coming on.

00:46:13.900 Oh, it's a pleasure.

00:46:14.900 It's also an honor.

00:46:15.860 Oh, same.

00:46:18.080 So, okay, let's start with what you thought of last night's town halls.

00:46:22.480 I know you did a focus group, but let me ask you what Frank Luntz thought before we get

00:46:25.940 to the focus group.

00:46:27.280 I was as interested in the process as I was in the candidates and the different methodology

00:46:32.260 that Savannah Guthrie used at NBC and George Stephanopoulos used at ABC.

00:46:37.020 I love the town hall format because it takes it away from pundits like me or journalists

00:46:43.140 like you and puts it in the hands of the voters.

00:46:45.780 And I think that's so important, particularly now.

00:46:48.400 It's the one voice that we're not hearing from.

00:46:50.820 And it was really annoying to me, not even just upsetting, that it took 20 minutes for

00:46:57.280 the embassy, for the NBC town hall to actually become a town hall.

00:47:03.000 They even advertised it as a town hall, and no voter actually spoke until 21 minutes into

00:47:11.200 the show.

00:47:11.980 And I thought that that was a disgrace.

00:47:14.760 Over at ABC, maybe I could have been critical of George Stephanopoulos for not pushing Bill

00:47:19.540 Biden tougher.

00:47:21.320 But in the end, it really is about the candidate and the voter, and we get a chance to see how

00:47:26.800 they interact with America.

00:47:28.320 And that's what I tuned in for.

00:47:29.940 That's what I expected.

00:47:31.000 And NBC did not deliver that last night.

00:47:34.240 Well, and it could have been an opportunity to see Trump interacting directly with regular

00:47:39.420 folks.

00:47:39.960 And he tends to do very well with that.

00:47:43.060 He does less well with the press, which clearly hates him for the most part.

00:47:47.020 And you could see that last night.

00:47:48.180 NBC, they're not rooting for Trump.

00:47:49.900 And Savannah Guthrie is clearly not rooting for Trump, which you're not supposed to be able

00:47:53.680 to tell.

00:47:54.160 But it was clear.

00:47:54.960 Whereas Trump directly with the voters, he probably would have had more of an exchange

00:48:00.020 like we saw on ABC between Biden and the voters.

00:48:03.000 Kind of nice, kind of sweet.

00:48:04.580 When he had that one, the woman's like, your smile's so beautiful.

00:48:06.940 It was kind of cute.

00:48:07.920 It was sweet.

00:48:08.620 He smiled in response.

00:48:10.360 Those moments can help a politician.

00:48:11.900 But I would say he had the rug pulled out from under him in the forum he chose to go to.

00:48:18.460 Well, it wasn't.

00:48:19.100 I don't think he knew it.

00:48:20.340 And I think it was disgraceful.

00:48:22.200 Well, Savannah Guthrie probably has a better reputation among her colleagues today than she

00:48:26.900 did 24 hours ago.

00:48:28.500 Because he really did take Trump to the cleaners.

00:48:31.400 But I don't think voters are better off.

00:48:34.320 And I think that if you look at it objectively, the ABC function forum was much more helpful

00:48:41.300 in helping people make up their minds.

00:48:44.060 And the embassy, I keep doing that.

00:48:46.620 I just spoke at an embassy.

00:48:47.940 You know why?

00:48:48.700 I just spoke at an embassy to a bunch of ambassadors.

00:48:51.080 So I've got that on my brain.

00:48:52.480 But the NBC effort was clearly about the host rather than about the voters.

00:49:00.440 And nobody benefits from that.

00:49:02.580 You've got less than three weeks to go.

00:49:05.020 Let the people be heard.

00:49:06.700 Let them speak.

00:49:08.220 And unfortunately, they don't get that opportunity.

00:49:11.280 And honestly, we've heard enough from the journalists.

00:49:13.260 I feel like the press gets drunk on its own wine and then won't shut up.

00:49:17.380 And last night, when the first person stood up at the NBC town hall, it was an ER doc and

00:49:22.620 her daughter.

00:49:23.380 And she asked a good question, which is, what are you going to do to get the economy back

00:49:26.900 on track?

00:49:27.380 Which is actually something the American people want to know as as fun as it may be to pepper

00:49:33.960 Trump with questions on when was the last negative diagnosis of COVID before you came

00:49:39.460 out with a positive?

00:49:40.700 And why would you retweet these weird tweets about QAnon?

00:49:44.020 I mean, that's like maybe fun for the journalist to try to score points with other media.

00:49:48.420 But, you know, my imaginary viewer, Madge, she lives in Iowa in my head.

00:49:52.600 She wants to know when the economy is getting back on track and what he's going to do.

00:49:57.140 So there was a frustration there.

00:49:58.760 What about your focus group?

00:50:00.520 How did they react?

00:50:02.100 So I finally understood and understand what the issue is, why these people are still undecided.

00:50:08.400 And it's a negative decision for them.

00:50:11.780 The question is, which is more negative for them?

00:50:14.160 They decided that they don't like Donald Trump as a person, but they think that this administration

00:50:19.080 has been OK.

00:50:20.560 They decided that they are afraid of Joe Biden and the things that he wants to do, but that

00:50:25.840 they like him very much.

00:50:27.580 And so they're trying to make up their minds.

00:50:30.120 Do I put up with four more years of Trump for policies I agree with?

00:50:33.820 Do I welcome Joe Biden into my life for four years, even though he scares me about the things

00:50:39.320 that he may do?

00:50:40.140 And that's why they're undecided.

00:50:41.640 They haven't figured out which is more important, the fact that they love one candidate on policy,

00:50:47.220 but that they love one candidate's persona.

00:50:50.480 Is there any history to suggest what happens in the end of these races, like the last minute

00:50:55.980 breaks for the incumbent?

00:50:58.040 Or do we do we know anything from the past about how these undecideds will likely go in

00:51:03.340 the next 18 days?

00:51:04.760 We absolutely do.

00:51:05.740 And the best example of this happened in 1980, when the final debate was just six days before

00:51:11.880 the election.

00:51:13.500 Ronald Reagan was one point behind Jimmy Carter.

00:51:16.420 Reagan did so well, scored so well.

00:51:19.120 He was so personable and so empathetic in that debate, even though Jimmy Carter tried to demonize

00:51:24.780 him.

00:51:25.680 That debate helped Reagan collect the entire undecideds that were left.

00:51:31.200 And he went from one point down to nine points up in less than a week.

00:51:34.440 And that's what Trump's counting on.

00:51:36.280 The problem with Trump is that he's got one of the lowest favorability ratings.

00:51:40.200 And I want to apologize.

00:51:41.640 This is a genuine podcast.

00:51:44.500 This is authentic.

00:51:46.020 I am in a home that's under construction.

00:51:48.980 And even though they are two rooms away, I know you can hear the banging and hollering.

00:51:54.580 But the people who are listening in, this is the way it is.

00:51:57.740 No, no, you can barely hear it.

00:51:59.180 If you're like 18 days, 19 days before an election, you do your interviews wherever you

00:52:05.140 can get space.

00:52:06.240 So I'm in my pantry right now.

00:52:08.420 There is, I'll even step aside.

00:52:10.220 There's nothing here except a little bit of paint and some spackle.

00:52:14.080 But this is the only place I can set my computer down to talk to you now.

00:52:17.640 Well, I appreciate it.

00:52:19.580 I hope it's a comfortable closet.

00:52:21.900 Oh, no, it's awful.

00:52:23.120 It's actually there's undrunk water.

00:52:26.740 There's trash on the floor.

00:52:28.100 This is this is my own little shit joke, just like the first debate.

00:52:32.880 Frank Lund's in the lapse of luxury.

00:52:35.720 The undecided voter tends to break for the challenger two to one.

00:52:40.780 Oh, really?

00:52:41.880 Yes.

00:52:42.420 And I don't even know if there are enough voters left at this point for Donald Trump

00:52:45.420 to be even in this race.

00:52:47.640 OK, can we talk about that?

00:52:48.900 Can we talk about that?

00:52:49.680 Because, you know, this is what the Trump voters are putting all their hopes into.

00:52:54.220 They are they are hoping that there is a shy Trump vote that's big enough that it'll put

00:53:00.760 them over the edge the way it did the last time, the way it did against Hillary.

00:53:04.200 We just went through the polls where you had Bob Beckel on a minute ago talking about how,

00:53:08.220 you know, Hillary was up 11 points, double digit leads over him at this point in the last

00:53:12.560 race, as Biden appears to be now and Trump beat her.

00:53:17.060 So what do you think of that?

00:53:18.720 Well, but first off, Trump actually lost to her by 2.1 percent.

00:53:23.380 And I know that there are people who will listen to this podcast and say, ah, but the polls

00:53:27.080 were wrong.

00:53:27.640 The truth is, the polls weren't wrong.

00:53:28.960 They were wrong state by state, but they had the national numbers almost dead on.

00:53:34.820 The real clear politics average on Election Day gave Hillary Clinton a 2.8 percent margin.

00:53:40.980 She came in and won with 2.1 percent.

00:53:43.000 Being off by 0.7 percent is not a big deal.

00:53:48.160 But when it comes to the Electoral College, which is the only thing that matters, I mean,

00:53:52.080 I realize the Democrats are very focused on the popular vote, but no one else cares because

00:53:55.520 all we hear about is Electoral College.

00:53:57.820 He she was up in every state.

00:53:59.700 She was up in Florida, Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, even Ohio.

00:54:03.220 A couple of weeks at this point in the race last time around.

00:54:06.960 And Trump won all of those states.

00:54:09.840 Yes.

00:54:10.340 Well, I remember your interview because I've shown it perhaps 100 times of Larry Sabato

00:54:14.960 when he gives the whole list of all the states that he that she's up and that he thinks

00:54:20.320 she's going to win.

00:54:21.100 And you said, well, what about these states?

00:54:22.780 You actually gave him a scenario and he says, I can see it, but I don't believe it.

00:54:28.240 And the two of you laughed.

00:54:30.420 48 hours later, nobody was laughing.

00:54:32.520 When when Trump actually ran the trifecta, that does happen.

00:54:37.940 But pollsters figure out what they got wrong.

00:54:41.240 Pollsters are held accountable for the numbers that they have.

00:54:44.640 I got the election night numbers from Fox News.

00:54:48.160 And so I assume that Fox numbers would be correct.

00:54:50.560 And they weren't.

00:54:52.660 Well, you know what?

00:54:53.100 Even even going out onto the set that night in 2016, we as the anchors get to meet with

00:54:58.720 the exit pollsters.

00:55:00.820 You know, they get the people who are on our decision desk who have met who have read the

00:55:04.400 initial exit exit polls and who will ultimately be calling the race behind the scenes.

00:55:08.500 And their initial report was that it looked to be a very good night for Hillary Clinton.

00:55:13.380 Even that night, the initial reports were she's winning.

00:55:17.880 And then, of course, it was that until it wasn't until they decided to take away the fireworks and

00:55:23.180 the balloons at the center that she was in in New York.

00:55:25.380 And so I think, you know, most Trump voters think he's a closer, think that, you know,

00:55:30.980 those numbers on are you better off now than you were four years ago are going to bring

00:55:34.180 people home and excite the Republicans into getting out there.

00:55:38.060 But if if she if Joe Biden wins, Frank, who will have made the difference?

00:55:43.940 Will it be the Democrats were more enthusiastic this time?

00:55:48.000 Because that's what did her in last time.

00:55:49.540 They were like, A, she's probably got it.

00:55:52.120 And B, she kind of sucks.

00:55:54.380 So like they weren't excited to go.

00:55:56.680 But so what do you think would be the difference this time?

00:55:58.980 Donald Trump is the difference this time.

00:56:01.180 He's not the same man that he was four years ago.

00:56:03.720 He's not the same candidate.

00:56:04.900 Four years ago, he focused on the concerns of the voters.

00:56:09.340 Now he talks about himself.

00:56:11.480 Four years ago, he was fighting for the ignored and the forgotten.

00:56:14.340 Now he's fighting to get justice for his own reputation.

00:56:18.000 Four years ago, people disliked him, but they understood him.

00:56:22.500 And they thought that he was the kind of guy who would fight for them.

00:56:27.020 Now they see him as being more focused on his own reputation than their livelihoods.

00:56:32.600 And that is the number one reason why he's doing worse.

00:56:35.040 And then demographically, it's been a meltdown for him among white women.

00:56:39.200 We won in 2016.

00:56:42.120 And that particularly moms with children who do not like rushing their kids back to school,

00:56:50.120 who are still nervous about COVID.

00:56:52.700 And Trump's virtual dismissal of people's anxiety over the virus just really rubs white

00:57:00.560 women the wrong way.

00:57:01.940 So you think that's what it is?

00:57:03.020 Because I know he's struggling with women, suburban women.

00:57:05.700 You think it's the COVID response as opposed to his sharp edges?

00:57:10.220 I think it's both.

00:57:12.100 And I think that he's applying the sharp edges.

00:57:14.380 It's a great way.

00:57:15.720 Although, you know, I'm a language person.

00:57:17.720 Yeah.

00:57:17.940 That is a really good way to describe.

00:57:20.900 I'm going to use that for the next 17, 18 days.

00:57:24.540 So thank you.

00:57:25.500 This interview turned out to have been very useful.

00:57:28.440 Frank Luntz is the author of Words That Work.

00:57:31.300 I remember promoting it a lot on The Kelly File.

00:57:33.540 But I do wonder, because he had those sharp edges four years ago, and he was still put

00:57:39.040 into office.

00:57:40.040 I don't think they've gotten sharper.

00:57:42.340 But you are right.

00:57:43.220 He complains about his own situation a lot more than he used to.

00:57:46.620 Yeah, but except there's a four-year difference.

00:57:49.160 When someone is annoying to you, you still see their good parts.

00:57:53.920 After four years, those bad parts start to grow and grow and become more significant.

00:57:58.780 And the things that you liked about someone, they start to fade into the distance.

00:58:04.820 Right now, our undecided voters believe that Donald Trump has been a decent president.

00:58:10.440 And they believe the economy was really good.

00:58:12.760 And they benefited from it.

00:58:14.220 And they are better off.

00:58:16.160 But they don't like the sharp edges.

00:58:19.200 They don't like the constant barrage.

00:58:21.580 And they're now not only fed up with it, but they're exhausted from it.

00:58:25.180 Mm-hmm.

00:58:26.420 So what's the opportunity then for him going into the third debate?

00:58:33.520 You know, I'm a mother.

00:58:35.380 And what I've realized now is teachers never give you any sort of negative feedback.

00:58:39.460 They just talk about opportunities.

00:58:41.560 We have a real opportunity here in math, right?

00:58:44.360 So what are the real opportunities that Donald Trump has in this third debate?

00:58:49.800 Yeah, and that's why people like teachers and they hate education.

00:58:52.560 That's why our kids are doing so badly.

00:58:55.140 Because no, Johnny and Susie simply are getting C's and D's and they suck at math.

00:59:01.420 And they need a tutor.

00:59:03.040 And they can't get the answer right.

00:59:04.840 And they got to stop cheating.

00:59:06.120 And they got to stop picking on the kid next to them.

00:59:09.100 They're not opportunities.

00:59:10.660 They're, in some cases, they're family.

00:59:14.360 They're problems, yes.

00:59:15.660 And they need solutions.

00:59:16.720 Uh, the advice I would give to Trump is very simple.

00:59:21.160 And he would never, ever take it in a word, humility.

00:59:25.120 In a second word, apologize.

00:59:27.760 Oh, stop it.

00:59:28.960 Yeah.

00:59:29.320 No, that's what I would advise.

00:59:31.240 There must be some paint fumes in that closet.

00:59:33.780 There is zero chance of any apology from Donald Trump.

00:59:37.060 There never has been one, ever.

00:59:38.960 By the way, here's, there might be.

00:59:41.100 Here's the spackle that I'm probably inhaling right now.

00:59:44.020 Uh, it is, these are the things that he needs to do.

00:59:47.160 These are the things that the public wants from him.

00:59:49.140 I don't agree with you.

00:59:50.020 I think if he came out and apologized for anything, I don't take, you know, you could go down the list.

00:59:54.240 You know, right now in the Republican Party, there's a, there's a, there's a backlash against apologizing.

00:59:59.420 They're sick of being made to apologize.

01:00:00.980 I think they like about Trump that he doesn't apologize.

01:00:04.580 And so, I don't know.

01:00:06.060 I agree with you that if he came out and he smiled a lot and he turned on the charm and he was a little self-deprecating, that could work.

01:00:14.180 But I don't think they want to see weakness.

01:00:17.120 His own people don't want to, but his own people are voting for him and no one's going to not vote for him because he shows a little bit of vulnerability.

01:00:26.200 So is it about turnout?

01:00:27.760 I mean, is it, what if, do you think he's going to get more Republicans out this time than he got last?

01:00:31.680 Yes, I do.

01:00:33.020 But the Democrats are going to get way more of their voters than last time.

01:00:36.680 And Donald Trump cannot win simply by turning out everybody who voted for him because Trump's voters are more than 10 years older than Biden voters.

01:00:46.840 And Trump voters are, so many of them from 2016 aren't even alive in 2020.

01:00:54.780 And all these new voters, the 18, 19, 20, 21-year-olds who just entered this voting system, by 70, 30, they support Joe Biden.

01:01:04.920 They're not going to vote.

01:01:06.240 They're not going to vote.

01:01:07.060 Every four years they say they're going to vote and they don't.

01:01:09.320 They don't.

01:01:09.940 They didn't even vote for Barack Obama.

01:01:11.760 They don't come out in record numbers.

01:01:13.080 They just make noise prior to the election.

01:01:15.460 I think it's going to be a lot tighter than people are saying.

01:01:18.860 And I definitely think Trump still has a chance to win this.

01:01:21.580 I'll give you the last word.

01:01:22.360 I hope that the country comes out the winner.

01:01:25.920 I actually am more concerned about America the day after the election than I am America the election day.

01:01:31.920 That I think that we need to treat each other with more respect and more civility.

01:01:36.740 That we need to embrace all that is good about America and Americans, not just the country.

01:01:44.340 And that I'm hoping that these last two and a half weeks, we give Americans a lesson in civics.

01:01:52.360 And part of that is the role of the Constitution, the importance of the Declaration, and an appreciation that makes this country unique.

01:02:00.740 That, to me, is the highest priority.

01:02:02.920 And I'm hoping that the two candidates will do that next Thursday night.

01:02:06.800 More respect and civility.

01:02:09.460 You're cute, Frank.

01:02:11.980 It's good to talk to you.

01:02:14.140 Thank you.

01:02:14.580 Look, it may be pie in the sky, but we can dream, can't we?

01:02:19.140 We absolutely can and should.

01:02:21.140 And we'll continue to.

01:02:22.460 Talk to you soon, I hope.

01:02:23.840 Thank you, man.

01:02:24.880 One never knows, right?

01:02:26.700 Hope does spring eternal.

01:02:27.980 I mean, listen, no matter who wins, that's what we want, more respect and civility.

01:02:31.140 Though the country certainly seems to be going in another direction.

01:02:35.340 Anyway, who knows?

01:02:37.060 We'll find out.

01:02:37.700 My only hope is that whoever wins, it's by a strong enough margin that the other one goes away quietly, whoever it is.

01:02:45.240 Look, I want to thank Frank Luntz.

01:02:47.540 I want to thank Bob Beckel.

01:02:48.840 It's so good to talk to these guys.

01:02:50.120 And Mark Thiessen as well.

01:02:51.120 These are some of my favorites from The Kelly File, who I haven't gotten the chance to talk to in a long time.

01:02:55.560 Great to hear their voice and their analysis, which I've missed a lot.

01:02:58.120 And listen, if you're enjoying the podcast, stay tuned.

01:03:01.060 First of all, A, go subscribe, go download, go rate, and go review, please, on Apple and iTunes because I read them all and it's super fun.

01:03:09.720 But also, don't forget to tune in on Monday and download that episode because we're going to have Abigail Schreier.

01:03:16.280 She's the woman who wrote that book, Irreversible Damage.

01:03:19.980 And she went on Joe Rogan.

01:03:21.180 This is what's causing him all that trouble with the Spotify employees.

01:03:23.860 They're angry about the interview, about the book, and so on.

01:03:26.240 It is a provocative book, but it's really interesting and it sounds the alarm on some dangerous possibilities.

01:03:35.380 It's not an anti-trans book.

01:03:37.000 It's about what's happening with teenage girls and whether there are clusters of sort of a peer contagion when it comes to trans issues.

01:03:46.240 In any event, it's one of the most interesting reads I've had in months.

01:03:49.540 And her thoughts on being a woman in America and the messages we're sending little girls right now, I thought were the most fascinating part of the book.

01:03:57.380 We get into all of it on Monday.

01:03:59.140 In the meantime, have a great weekend.

01:04:03.040 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:04:05.240 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:04:09.760 The Megyn Kelly Show is a Devil May Care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures.

01:04:14.180 I'll see you next time.

01:04:37.840 Bye.

01:04:40.080 Bye.

01:04:41.220 Bye.

01:04:42.100 Bye.

01:04:42.340 Bye.

01:04:42.960 Bye.

01:04:43.440 Bye.

The Megyn Kelly Show - October 16, 2020

Dueling Town Halls, with Marc Thiessen, Bob Beckel, and Frank Luntz ｜ Ep. 11

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