The Megyn Kelly Show - Election Consequences, with Chris Christie and James Carville ｜ Ep. 27

00:00:00.420 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:06.720 Today, the state of the presidential race, of the GOP, and of the Democratic Party.

00:00:11.560 We have got Governor Chris Christie and James Carville on lessons from the 2020 election and predicted outcomes.

00:00:19.860 That's now.

00:00:26.020 Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:28.880 Today, we've got two of the smartest guys in politics joining us with predictions on how this presidential contest is going to wind up

00:00:35.400 and what really happened on Election Day with those down-ballot races.

00:00:39.040 What does it say about the future of the Democratic Party?

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00:01:36.780 And now, Governor Chris Christie, formerly Governor of the State of New Jersey.

00:01:47.180 Governor Chris Christie, thank you so much for being here.

00:01:50.140 My pleasure, Megan. Great to be with you.

00:01:51.940 All right. So, on the show, we want to give it to the listeners straight.

00:01:55.420 What is Trump doing? Does he have a realistic chance of prevailing on an overall effort to reverse this vote?

00:02:02.700 No, Megan, I don't – I always approach this as a former prosecutor as opposed to a former governor because I want to deal with the facts.

00:02:10.900 And that's what we got to do exclusively when we were in prosecuting.

00:02:15.440 I said this on the Wednesday morning after the election, after the president's first speech at about 2.30 in the morning.

00:02:23.020 You can't stand up there and say there's been fraud, the election's being stolen, and I would have won easily but for it unless you produce evidence.

00:02:32.700 And we're now sitting here, you know, 16 days after the election, and I still haven't seen any evidence.

00:02:40.060 Now, are there irregularities in elections? There are always irregularities in elections.

00:02:44.860 The question is, were there irregularities or intentional acts that would have changed the course of the result?

00:02:53.180 I haven't seen that, and I think it's, you know, getting very, very late to present something like that.

00:02:59.480 So, you know, the strategy here from the president's perspective, I couldn't explain it to you because in the end, if he was concerned about this beforehand, which he said he was, he should have had a much better legal strategy in place in the weeks before the election to be able to detect anything that was going sideways.

00:03:17.780 He didn't. And whenever you try to piece this kind of stuff together afterwards, you know, you're not going to succeed.

00:03:24.040 And so, you know, I think that, you know, if he doesn't have any evidence, which it doesn't appear he does, that would change the results in at least three states, then it's time to move on.

00:03:35.300 So I, like you, have tried to look at the evidence. And one thing we both know from having been in courtrooms is the judge, the courts in these cases are going to see a lot more than you and I are going to see over here.

00:03:45.840 They get to read all the briefs, get to. They have to read all the briefs, see all the evidence, the affidavits that have been presented.

00:03:51.980 And I will trust what the courts tell us in terms of outcome. But just looking at the overall landscape, he's losing most of these challenges in Pennsylvania.

00:04:01.940 He filed eight lawsuits. Only three are still pending. The strongest one is the one that went up to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court said, get back to us if this remains an issue, which is was the state Supreme Court allowed to postpone the deadline for submitting your vote by allowing you to just postmark your vote as of Election Day.

00:04:20.280 That's the strongest. But we don't even know if those if that category of votes, which is sitting in a separate pile, has been included in Biden's eighty one thousand vote perceived victory right now.

00:04:33.000 So, you know, Biden may be able to win Pennsylvania without any of those votes because, you know, they may not even be in the pile at this point and there aren't enough to to swing it the other way.

00:04:44.300 And then in Michigan, he filed two lawsuits. Only one is left standing. And that's basically just about challengers not being allowed to observe the voting process.

00:04:53.540 The filings are due this week. It doesn't look that strong to me. Georgia, one lawsuit filed. It was dismissed. There is a recount underway.

00:05:00.660 Arizona, he filed three. He dropped two. There's one pending. It's very lame. That one is talking about how counties can't hand count ballots at vote centers as opposed to vote precincts.

00:05:10.300 In response to which the AG there is basically saying there's just there's no legal basis for that whatsoever. Nevada, he filed two. One was upheld. It's pending about the polls being kept open late.

00:05:20.940 My bottom line on this is if he prevails on all of these, maybe you're talking about a handful of votes, but the margins Biden is leading by in each of these states, they're big.

00:05:33.920 You know, I'll just run through it and then I'll get your thoughts. But Pennsylvania, it's Biden by 81,000. Michigan, Biden by 146,000. Nevada, Biden by 33,000. Wisconsin, Biden by 20,000.

00:05:48.580 Gets tighter in Georgia and Arizona, where it's Biden by 13.9 thousand. Arizona's 10,000.

00:05:53.520 We're going to have two recounts in two of those states, Georgia and Wisconsin. But to me, it feels like a Hail Mary.

00:06:01.960 I don't know. Is there any chance those collectively and I'm going to get to this massive allegation of the computers are corrupt, but could those collectively get him over the line?

00:06:13.800 Doesn't sound like it. I mean, you know, again, you know, courts are going to be very reluctant to overturn a vote count in those numbers without there being real solid evidence of irregularities or intentional misconduct that would have affected a larger number of votes than that.

00:06:36.580 Because remember, that's the margin. You can't assume that every one of those votes that disqualified would be a Biden vote.

00:06:42.600 So it seems highly unlikely. And I think, you know, calling it a Hail Mary is is probably a right way to characterize it, Megan.

00:06:51.380 And I and what I'd also say is that when you look at the Pennsylvania lawsuit, I do think there's concerns about what the Pennsylvania Supreme Court did.

00:07:01.080 But like you said, we have no idea whether those votes are included in the eighty one thousand vote margin, how many of those votes there are and, you know, what percentage of that vote Donald Trump got, which you have to assume he got some percentage of it.

00:07:16.780 So, you know, again, I just think that there's it's it's a very, very long shot.

00:07:22.220 But to me, the more damaging part of it is it's is to make the charge before you have the evidence.

00:07:29.400 Right. So that would be like me going into a grand jury as the U.S. attorney and handing out an indictment and saying to the grand jury, I'd like you to vote this indictment out.

00:07:39.360 And the grand jury form says, but wait a second, we haven't heard the evidence yet.

00:07:42.200 I go, don't worry, I have the evidence. I'll give it to you later.

00:07:44.360 That's what this is like. And that's what bothers me the most.

00:07:48.000 Does the president have an absolute right to pursue these legal remedies?

00:07:51.260 Yes. Does he have an absolute right to pursue recounts, especially in states that are close, like Georgia and Arizona, I'd say, are the two that are closest.

00:07:59.120 I know he's pursuing one in Wisconsin, but that's the number of votes he won by four years ago in Wisconsin.

00:08:04.580 And, you know, I've spoken to people like Scott Walker and others who I trust in their judgment of close Wisconsin elections.

00:08:11.220 And they've said, you know, that there's no way that a recount would overturn that large a margin.

00:08:18.000 That's the thing. Recounts usually get votes that are close by like a thousand, a couple hundred, but not not huge like this, like a thirty three thousand vote victory.

00:08:30.320 I don't I don't think one's ever been reversed on a recount or because of a voter fraud charge.

00:08:36.100 No. And listen, there's lots of people who who compare this to Bush versus Gore.

00:08:41.300 And all I'd say to that is let's remember that Bush versus Gore was one state only that that state,

00:08:48.940 when the voting was first stopped counting was nine hundred votes in the entire state of Florida was the margin when the recounts stopped.

00:08:58.640 It was five hundred and thirty seven votes.

00:09:01.500 So and there were no allegations, really serious allegations of fraud in that in that election.

00:09:07.780 And it really was a question of the standard by which you decide what is a vote and how they're counted.

00:09:15.640 Oh, you're bringing back like bad memories about hanging chads and do they count?

00:09:19.900 What do they mean? And that was like, yeah, the pregnant chat. 1.00

00:09:23.580 Right. When you punch the little thing, but it doesn't go all the way through and a little the vote tally looks pregnant.

00:09:28.460 But it's much different than alleging fraud, which is an intentional theft of an election.

00:09:34.980 So, yes, Al Gore got thirty seven days to fight that.

00:09:38.380 That's why I've said the president has a right to fight whatever he wants to fight.

00:09:42.420 The the to me, the bigger problem is coming to a conclusion before you conduct the investigation.

00:09:48.960 So you say it's a fraud. Now I'm going to investigate to see if it is.

00:09:52.580 Well, and when it comes to voter fraud, unlike what the Democrats say, you are always going to find a little.

00:09:59.680 There is some voter fraud going on in this country.

00:10:02.260 The problem is the question is whether it's massive, whether it's large enough and you can prove it to reverse margins that huge.

00:10:10.780 Listen, I had a predecessor governor of mine named Brendan Byrne, a Democrat, two term Democrat, was very funny guy.

00:10:18.480 And he he since passed away. But he used to say when he was alive that he made his wife promise that she would bury him in Hudson County, New Jersey, so that he could remain active in politics.

00:10:31.740 You know, the there's no doubt that in places like Philadelphia and in New Jersey, historically, Illinois, historically, that there have been examples.

00:10:41.140 I put people in jail for when I was U.S. attorney for voter fraud in New Jersey.

00:10:45.420 It happens. But that's not the question here.

00:10:49.280 The question is, did it happen, as you said, on such a scale that we'd be able to reverse the kind of margins that we're talking about?

00:10:55.700 And and I've said right from Wednesday morning after his two thirty a.m. speech, show me.

00:11:01.380 And if you have the evidence, I will fight with you to make sure that the election is a fair and honest one.

00:11:08.880 But if you don't have the evidence, you should not expect people to just blindly follow you and your allegations.

00:11:16.160 All right. But let's let's talk about let's talk about Michigan, though, because there was some funny business going on there.

00:11:21.800 And that's a 20 electoral vote state. If Trump could get that one reversed, it'd be huge.

00:11:25.920 However, he's losing by the most in Michigan. That's the toughest challenge with one hundred and forty six thousand vote lead for Biden.

00:11:34.840 But I do want to get into the news of the day there, because this is the first time I really perked up and said that now I'm interested.

00:11:42.580 Now you got me not paying attention because the Republican canvas board members there for it was basically the county in which Detroit is.

00:11:52.140 And they said they were bullied last night. They did vote to certify the vote.

00:11:59.160 And but then they almost immediately reversed themselves and said, I regret it.

00:12:04.520 Their names are Monica Palmer and William Hartman saying I was bullied into doing it.

00:12:09.420 I do not believe we should have certified this. There are too many irregularities in in Detroit to justify accepting these election results.

00:12:17.800 And the only reason I said yes at the last minute is because I was promised that there would be an audit, which already the Democrats are saying they're not going to do.

00:12:25.660 And I was threatened. These two. It got crazy, crazy.

00:12:29.680 Like people were showing up from the county, openly threatening these two if they didn't certify the vote, charging them with racism.

00:12:38.700 And we have just one example. There's this is a guy named Ned Stabler, who's a well-known Detroit entrepreneur who got up there and shamed those two like they were about to cast their votes in the big white hats.

00:12:52.020 Listen to Ned. You talked about not certifying Detroit, even though you acknowledge that Livonia, a city, by the way, I know, you know, is 95 percent white, had bigger variances than Detroit, which is 80 percent black.

00:13:05.040 We understand. And you've now added your name. So I'm not going to try to change your mind.

00:13:09.900 I just want to let you know that the Trump stick, the stain of racism that you, William Hartman and Monica Palmer, have just covered yourself in is going to follow you throughout history.

00:13:23.420 Your grandchildren are going to think of you like Bull Connor or George Wallace.

00:13:28.720 Monica Palmer and William Hartman will forever be known in southeastern Michigan as two racists who did something so unprecedented that they disenfranchised hundreds of thousands of black voters in the city of Detroit because they were ordered to.

00:13:44.920 Well, he sounds nice. So they caved.

00:13:48.540 Well, and listen, you know, Megan, I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who accept positions as important as those positions who say, I'm going to vote to certify.

00:14:04.480 And then as soon as they're done voting to certify, saying I shouldn't have done it.

00:14:08.140 Well, then you shouldn't have done it or you shouldn't have taken the jobs in the first place.

00:14:12.000 And the problem I have is, OK, if there were serious irregularities in Detroit and that wouldn't shock me, well, then show me.

00:14:21.960 If these two folks, the Republicans on the Wayne County canvassing board, think there are serious enough irregularities, let me tell you, I'm sure that the Trump campaign would file a new lawsuit based upon this.

00:14:36.340 And these guys could be witnesses one and two.

00:14:39.640 Well, that may happen. That may happen because what they're saying is that there are discrepancies in nearly three quarters of Detroit's precinct poll books where ballots are supposed to be matched to qualified voters.

00:14:51.600 I don't understand that either. But basically, they're saying that the ballots and the qualified voters, the numbers don't add up.

00:14:58.060 There are some sort of discrepancies that they think warrants an audit, at least.

00:15:02.460 And I mean, it's nuts. So just do the audit. Who cares? Like, who cares? Do it.

00:15:07.600 That's the case. They shouldn't have voted to certify.

00:15:09.960 OK, and if you're going to be a public official, you've got to have a certain measure of strength and you're going to have guys like Ned who are going to yell at you all the time.

00:15:17.540 From the time I was a county elected official and the eight years I was governor, I held 100 over 150 town hall meetings.

00:15:26.320 You remember the magazine? I had people yell at me all the time.

00:15:28.960 If they were awesome, get yelled. I had a lot of fun.

00:15:31.780 If every time they yelled at you, you caved.

00:15:33.880 Well, then you weren't a leader. You're a follower.

00:15:37.100 So, listen, if they have real evidence of discrepancies in matching, you know, the ballots to qualified voters, that's a real problem.

00:15:45.780 And then they need to present that to a court.

00:15:47.760 And I, like you, have confidence in the fact that our courts will not permit those kind of things to happen if there is solid evidence to back it up.

00:15:56.800 That's what I've said all along.

00:15:57.820 I'm not one of these people who is who is yelling and screaming that the president needs to concede.

00:16:02.820 I've never said that.

00:16:04.740 What I've said is the president needs to show the evidence.

00:16:08.780 And if he shows the evidence and there's evidence to it, you can be guaranteed there'll be tens of millions of people in this country who will support him continuing to move on with his legal challenges.

00:16:19.480 But that hasn't been the case so far.

00:16:21.580 If that turns out to be the case in Wayne County, then let's do it.

00:16:24.860 And let's say, let's go down the road, Megan, hypothetically, and say it did change the result in Michigan.

00:16:30.540 That's a lot of votes, but let's say it did.

00:16:32.820 That still puts Donald Trump at 252.

00:16:36.680 He's still 18 votes short of electoral votes short of being elected president.

00:16:44.120 And so, you know, we need to we need to make sure that, you know, we keep all of that in perspective at the same time.

00:16:52.260 And so I haven't been yelling and screaming.

00:16:54.580 He must concede.

00:16:55.800 But what I have been saying is if you want to pursue these legal actions, you have every right to.

00:17:00.720 Then you've got to be willing to put evidence forward that will convince not only a court, but the American people that something was really untoward here.

00:17:10.340 See, I think the court is actually that's higher on the list of those who need to be convinced than the American people, because Trump supporters will support him.

00:17:19.160 I think there was a poll recently saying something like 75 percent of Republicans do believe that there have been shenanigans here and that there may be fraud and may question the result.

00:17:28.140 Yes, that's going to be a political problem for whoever, you know, if it's Biden in the next term, but the courts, they get the final say.

00:17:37.840 Right. This is this is why we have courts. 0.99

00:17:39.940 And what's bothering me about this whole thing is.

00:17:43.480 The Trump campaign will put out, you know, they'll put out Rudy on like Maria Bartiromo's show.

00:17:50.360 And with all due respect to Maria Bartiromo, she never cross examines these guys like I really want to know answers.

00:17:55.500 I really I'd love to sit across from one of those lawyers and ask really hard questions.

00:17:59.520 Believe me, we're trying to get them.

00:18:01.000 And and so you leave not knowing anything other than Rudy's spin.

00:18:05.860 But in a courtroom, that doesn't work in a courtroom.

00:18:10.220 The court only takes evidence and the lawyer's argument may or may not be relevant to the judge, but the evidence is going to rule the day.

00:18:17.320 So they do have to put up or shut up there, which is why we should all be keeping our powder dry until the lawsuits resolve.

00:18:23.760 I think we can trust the results of those.

00:18:26.260 But the biggest thing they have going, the most important thing I think they would say, is this challenge to Dominion software, which they're saying is like the voting machines used in various of these swing states that they think allegedly, Rudy claims, may have been manipulated by an outside force that votes could have possibly been changed on election night.

00:18:54.820 Which they're saying that Dominion and and others, independent observers are saying that's absolutely impossible.

00:19:01.400 You could not do that to those machines.

00:19:03.580 But that's their biggest challenge.

00:19:05.560 That's good.

00:19:05.960 That's one that could wipe out tens of thousands of votes in various states. 0.51

00:19:10.020 What do you think?

00:19:11.320 Well, I mean, that's a high bar.

00:19:12.880 And let me be clear about what I said before.

00:19:14.940 That's why I put courts first and the American people second. 1.00

00:19:18.360 And so I agree with you on that.

00:19:19.700 The courts are going to be the most objective, most informed judges of of what happened here on the Dominion issue.

00:19:29.100 Listen, my understanding is those were the same voting systems in the main that were being used four years ago and in many states, not in all states.

00:19:38.840 But in the majority of states, I think Dominion voting systems are being used.

00:19:42.960 I think it's 28 out of the 50.

00:19:44.440 So, you know, listen, I'm not a tech person, Megan.

00:19:49.820 You know, I'm lucky if I can, you know, click onto a Zoom call correctly most of the time.

00:19:55.020 So I'm not the guy to be your tech expert.

00:19:57.680 I would just say this.

00:19:59.620 Again, you have an obligation to show the evidence when you make the charge.

00:20:05.180 My whole problem with this is, and Rudy knows this, Rudy knows this.

00:20:09.440 He was a U.S. attorney and a very successful one.

00:20:11.700 You know, you can't say, here's the charge, and I'll get back to you later on the evidence.

00:20:19.360 It's irresponsible to do that.

00:20:22.120 And so, you know, did they not know that these Dominion voting systems were being used in 28 states?

00:20:27.860 Did they not know that they were used four years ago?

00:20:30.660 We didn't hear any objection about them four years ago.

00:20:32.980 Now we're hearing an objection about them now.

00:20:34.820 Okay.

00:20:35.540 If they've been manipulated by some outside force, who's the outside force?

00:20:39.680 How are they manipulated, and where's your evidence?

00:20:42.400 I can tell you that I know with these machines that they produce either usually electronic machines where you push buttons and hit a little button.

00:20:50.840 It's not like the old big clunky voting machines where they have a dial in the back that counts the votes.

00:20:56.040 But then they produce a paper result of the votes that were happening.

00:21:00.180 You hit print, and it prints it out.

00:21:01.600 If, in fact, there's some way to have hacked that machine, and I mean thousands of machines to be hacked, and for the votes to have been changed, well, then we need to see the evidence for that.

00:21:16.120 And if there is evidence for that, you can believe it will be the biggest election scandal in the history of the country.

00:21:22.920 But, again, my point is I'm happy to fight that fight on the side of the president if it's true, but I've got to see the evidence that it is.

00:21:32.300 And that's the thing is, like, you've got Republicans like you who you are helping Trump prepare for these debates.

00:21:39.100 It's not like you were anti-Trump, who would very much prefer a President Trump second term to a President Biden term, who are saying, let's get real.

00:21:50.860 Like, I look around at the Republicans who are, you know, a lot of them are just trying to be loyal to Trump, saying, well, maybe, and we should wait for this whole process to play out.

00:21:58.740 But I don't see a lot saying, let me urge you, voters of America, to see the fraud.

00:22:06.220 I just see, I sort of see loyalists trying to be kind and somewhat supportive.

00:22:11.160 And, you know, you're, you were a loyalist.

00:22:13.360 I mean, you're, you know, like I said, you helped prepare the guy.

00:22:15.600 Have you talked to him at all?

00:22:17.280 Like, do you know what his state of mind is?

00:22:19.260 I don't, I, I've, listen, I've been friends with him for 20 years.

00:22:24.820 And, and I was the first major elected official to endorse him in late February of 2016.

00:22:35.860 I was the chairman of his transition.

00:22:38.280 I campaigned for him.

00:22:40.000 I spoke at his convention.

00:22:41.900 And I chaired his opioid commission when he was president.

00:22:45.040 Um, you know, and I voted for him in 2016 and in 2020.

00:22:50.920 Um, so this is somebody who would prefer Donald Trump to be president, um, to Joe Biden.

00:22:56.460 But, you know, our obligation as leaders of our country is to speak the truth, the whole truth.

00:23:05.100 And the whole truth here is the president has every, every right to pursue the legal remedies he's pursuing and the recounts he's pursuing.

00:23:15.920 But please don't tell us what the result is before the investigation has been conducted.

00:23:22.620 And if you, if you know there was fraud, then show us the evidence of the fraud, because Megan, if this were overturned, it would, it would create, that's why I said number two, the American people, because it would create, um, an absolute crazy situation in this country.

00:23:41.080 Um, that we're all going to have to deal with, and the only way to deal with that is to make sure the facts are correct.

00:23:46.520 Um, and, and the last thing I'd say is on, you know, legitimacy, the legitimacy issue.

00:23:51.860 I think both parties better start thinking about this issue, because this really started back in 2000 with Bush versus Gore.

00:23:59.880 However, when even after the, the Democrats were able to take it all the way to the United States Supreme Court and they lost, I remember being at George W. Bush's first inaugural and having Democrats there protesting and screaming that he was an illegitimate president.

00:24:13.160 And then I remember Donald Trump leading the charge, quite frankly, um, during the Obama administration on this birther issue and saying that somehow he was an illegitimate president.

00:24:22.820 And then we had Democrats saying, because Trump had lost the popular vote in 16 and the margins were so thin in the States that he won, that he was not a legitimate president.

00:24:34.380 You know, we've got to knock this off.

00:24:36.780 Um, elections have consequences.

00:24:38.460 We need to live with wins or losses.

00:24:40.320 I've been on both sides of that.

00:24:41.680 I've won and I've lost winnings better, but when you lose, I just take it right.

00:24:46.660 That's it.

00:24:47.380 And I think both parties are guilty of this and we need to knock it off.

00:24:51.120 It reminds me of that line from Bull Durham and Tim Robbins character said, love winning.

00:24:57.100 It's just like so much better than losing.

00:25:01.860 It's so great.

00:25:03.860 Nuke Lelouch, uh, um, you know, was, was a purveyor.

00:25:07.720 I didn't know of, of electoral wisdom, but it turns out he was.

00:25:11.220 Nicely done.

00:25:12.580 All right.

00:25:13.180 So let's talk about, um, Georgia because whatever happens up at the top, all eyes are going to be on Georgia.

00:25:20.140 And these two runoffs.

00:25:21.380 Now I know that no, no Republicans ever lost a runoff in Georgia, but this race could be different because it's really under the national spotlight.

00:25:30.900 The Democrats are going to use all their money, every money they can get their hands on to support the Democratic candidates.

00:25:36.400 And no idea whether it's true or it's not true, but the Washington Post is reporting that, that GOP leaders.

00:25:45.100 And I know you are, you are one of them looking at, at the Georgia Senate runoffs are quote, increasingly alarmed about the party's ability to stave off the Democratic challengers in these two elections.

00:25:56.040 Do you, do you agree with the Washington Post?

00:25:58.620 Is that true?

00:25:59.420 Well, I'm not alarmed.

00:26:00.640 Um, I, you know, under full disclosure, I'm one of the national co-chairs of the Georgia Battleground Fund, which is helping to raise the money along with Karl Rove and, um, and, uh, you know, uh, Nikki Haley and Haley Barber.

00:26:13.620 Um, so people should know that when they're listening, that, um, I have a bias, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong.

00:26:19.880 Um, I, I, I'm very concerned about the races because of everything you just said. 0.65

00:26:24.700 There'll be huge national attention on it.

00:26:26.760 The, the majority in the Senate is, is at stake.

00:26:29.980 Uh, and you don't know what the turnout will look like on January 5th.

00:26:34.980 That being said, I feel like we have the two better candidates.

00:26:38.900 I think we have the two better arguments.

00:26:40.860 Um, and I, and I do believe that both those candidates, both Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue will win on January 5th, but not unless as Republicans, we get, we are united.

00:26:52.500 We put our oar deep in the water and everybody's, you know, pulling in the same direction.

00:26:57.060 Um, and if we do that, I think we'll win that rate though, both those races. 0.98

00:27:00.640 Um, but, um, you know, if you don't, and if we allow other things to distract us or divide us, well, then you could have a problem.

00:27:09.240 Um, the, um, news just broke that the challenger to Kelly Loeffler, the Republican Senator, uh, his name is Reverend Raphael Warnock.

00:27:20.520 He is getting hit for comments he made in 2011 about the military and religion.

00:27:26.900 Now this is Georgia.

00:27:27.940 Keep in mind.

00:27:29.020 Uh, I want to ask you how you think this is going to affect the race.

00:27:31.940 If at all, here's the soundbite.

00:27:33.420 America, nobody can serve God and the military.

00:27:37.080 You can't serve God and money.

00:27:39.420 You cannot serve God and Mormon. 1.00

00:27:41.900 At the same time, America, choose ye this day whom you will serve.

00:27:49.760 You've got Senator Tom Cotton saying this guy needs to remove himself from the race, that this is such an insult to everyone who served.

00:27:56.260 What do you think?

00:27:57.780 That's a problem.

00:27:59.160 I mean, that's a big problem.

00:28:00.700 That's a big problem anywhere in America.

00:28:02.640 It's particularly a big problem in Georgia.

00:28:04.180 Um, and I think that, you know, everybody should take into consideration what type of Senator Reverend Warnock would be if that's what he believes.

00:28:16.820 How will he be on national security?

00:28:19.440 How will he be on questions of religious beliefs and protection of religious beliefs?

00:28:27.120 Um, you know, I just think that it's just unacceptable commentary.

00:28:31.140 Um, now should he drop out of the race?

00:28:33.640 I always think that that's the candidate's choice.

00:28:37.420 You know, candidate wants to stay in the race and get beat by 20 points.

00:28:41.280 Well, it's the candidate's right to do it.

00:28:42.980 He's got the, you know, the right from the initial election to be in the runoff.

00:28:47.340 Um, so that's his call.

00:28:48.620 But I do believe that every voter in Georgia should hear those words and be deeply disturbed by those words.

00:28:54.240 Because I can tell you that most of the men and women that I've met over my time in public life, uh, who serve in the military, um, also have a deep belief in whatever faith they follow.

00:29:09.020 And to say that you cannot do both is ridiculous and insulting, um, to the people who serve our country in the military and risk their lives.

00:29:18.900 So I think Reverend Warnock's got a big, big political problem, um, that will make the Kelly Loeffler race, um, potentially, um, a little more decisive.

00:29:30.560 Yeah.

00:29:30.800 He's not running for mayor of Portland.

00:29:32.420 It's, it's, it's a, it's a very different kind of race. 0.97

00:29:35.960 So I don't remember Bill de Blasio's cabinet where that would be perfectly acceptable.

00:29:40.620 I have to ask you about Bill de Blasio and governor Cuomo here in New, in New York, because now the New York city schools have shut down yet again, even though all the scientific studies are saying COVID is not being spread in schools.

00:29:54.620 And they also say homeschool learning distance learning is very bad for children.

00:29:59.500 Very bad.

00:30:00.040 Um, the, the governor here, you are a governor, a governor of your neighboring state, New York has written a book touting his leadership skills during COVID.

00:30:11.300 Meanwhile, the, the, the cases are rising.

00:30:14.400 He's arguing with the New York city mayor one day after governor Cuomo moments after governor Cuomo said at a press conference, you're an idiot to a reporter for asking whether in the New York city schools were going to shut.

00:30:24.760 They shot 10 minutes later.

00:30:26.160 These guys can't get along.

00:30:27.380 They're, they're like children, de Blasio and Cuomo.

00:30:30.660 Touting their leadership, shut down, open up, shut down, open up masks.

00:30:34.420 Oh wait, they didn't work.

00:30:35.680 I, I don't, I have yet to find a New Yorker who still believes in these two.

00:30:39.000 What are your thoughts?

00:30:40.540 Well, listen, mayor de Blasio, in my view is really the cause of all this.

00:30:46.400 And it's his incredibly cozy relationship with the teachers union in New York city, which is causing this because as you said, there's no, there's no empirical evidence that COVID is being spread in the schools.

00:31:03.120 In fact, quite the opposite has been the empirical evidence I've seen.

00:31:07.180 Um, this is him being in bed with the teachers union in New York city.

00:31:12.540 This guy has been the worst mayor of New York city of my lifetime.

00:31:17.300 Um, he makes me yearn for the days of David Dinkins.

00:31:20.660 Um, and I never, I'd have a mayor who would make me yearn for the days of David Dinkins, but David Dinkins was a better mayor than this guy.

00:31:27.680 Um, governor Cuomo's in an awful tough spot as governor because, you know, de Blasio really has jurisdiction over this school system.

00:31:36.360 So here you have Cuomo saying it's not going to close.

00:31:39.520 And do I believe de Blasio closed the schools just to prove Cuomo wrong?

00:31:44.120 I don't think he did it for that reason, but I think it was like an extra added benefit to de Blasio.

00:31:49.420 You're right that these guys don't like each other.

00:31:51.720 They don't get along with each other.

00:31:53.200 Um, and now, you know, de Blasio's actions, not Cuomo's because Cuomo, I think I was all along been someone who has been very reluctant to, to mess with the schools.

00:32:04.560 Um, but de Blasio here, this is clearly to me, um, a, a sop to the teachers union.

00:32:11.380 And that's what he's doing at the, at the grave, grave cost of lack of education for the, the students in the city.

00:32:19.660 And it's not right.

00:32:20.640 Not all of them have the ability to do things remotely or do them effectively remotely.

00:32:25.080 And it's just wrong.

00:32:26.540 No.

00:32:27.140 Oh, especially people who are in lower socioeconomic classes.

00:32:29.880 Those are the kids who get hurt the most.

00:32:32.280 The, the cases of abuse in home abuse go up.

00:32:35.800 And once again, the teachers union, the reason America first fell in love with Chris Christie, as I was on the air watching all the moments that went viral, was your willingness to take on those teachers unions, which had previously been untouchable.

00:32:47.840 And you didn't care, you would fight, you would say all the things that needed to be said.

00:32:51.700 And instead, what we, what we see is the truth, which is the teachers unions.

00:32:56.900 They, they don't even care about the teachers.

00:32:59.140 They really don't care about the kids.

00:33:00.860 They care about themselves, the group, the union itself, and its money-making ability.

00:33:06.120 But the last thing on their list is kids.

00:33:08.720 And man, is that manifesting in New York.

00:33:11.280 They're preaching to the choir.

00:33:12.720 And, and I, and, and I lived it for eight years.

00:33:15.460 I lived them beating me up for eight years and I beat them right back.

00:33:19.860 You know, the, the, the opinion of the public opinion of the teachers union was never lower than when I was governor.

00:33:25.860 And here's why.

00:33:26.700 Because I was actually willing to speak the truth about it.

00:33:29.620 Bill de Blasio is a captive of the union movement.

00:33:32.580 It is only just through the grace of reinstituted term limits that we will be done with him in another year and two months.

00:33:41.380 And when we are in New York city, I'm hopeful that the people will have learned from this awful eight year experiment and, you know, kids need to be in school.

00:33:51.460 I think you're right.

00:33:52.900 You know, Megan, these liberals constantly say that who they care about are the least fortunate.

00:33:58.480 And in the educational scheme, by denying vouchers, by denying charter schools, by now closing public schools in response to COVID, the people they are damaging the most are those children and their families whose dreams are wrecked because their education can't be moved forward.

00:34:19.200 And, and I'll tell you another thing.

00:34:20.640 The thing I'm really worried about, about any further significant lockdowns is what you alluded to.

00:34:26.120 We are seeing an enormous rise in domestic violence, an alarming rise in drug addiction, and an alarming rise in suicide.

00:34:36.200 All of that is the result of the lockdowns and the economic downturn and the loss of jobs and ability to support your family that's been created by these lockdowns.

00:34:48.480 And I think every public official better start thinking about when we get to a vaccine, and this is all over, what type of America will be coming back?

00:34:58.000 And I will tell you, it's going to be an America that's more drug addicted, more victims of domestic violence.

00:35:05.360 And we're going to have a lot of victims of suicide who didn't have to die because lots of public officials played to the grandstand and overreacted here.

00:35:13.840 Yeah. And for what, right? For what? It's not spreading. The kids are not spreading it.

00:35:19.020 And they just, it's like some teachers, yes, are completely paranoid.

00:35:23.420 The ones who are in the high risk groups can stay at home and protect themselves and do it from via Zoom.

00:35:28.240 And the others, teachers generally tend to be young, can go in class and be distanced and have masks on.

00:35:34.000 Our schools have been doing it. It's been working out beautifully.

00:35:36.680 Now we do have, we have a couple of vaccines coming out. Miraculously, we got Pfizer, we've got the two other companies, Moderna.

00:35:45.980 You, you famously, sorry, got COVID after some of those Trump debate sessions.

00:35:52.200 And can you tell, how long were you in the ICU for?

00:35:55.580 Seven days.

00:35:57.080 Holy cow. So that must have been scary.

00:36:00.060 It was. And especially the first three days were very scary.

00:36:03.660 And when, listen, the thing about COVID is that this disease is random and brutal, depending upon who gets it.

00:36:16.140 And when the symptoms finally hit me, they hit me like a freight train.

00:36:22.940 I went from in the morning having a 96.5 degree temperature, no symptoms at all, and great breathing, to six hours later, feeling like I had been run over by a train.

00:36:39.680 And went downhill from there.

00:36:42.360 And ultimately had to be hospitalized.

00:36:44.140 And so, now, I have a 20-year-old son who caught COVID at Providence College.

00:36:53.160 He quarantined himself for 14 days and never had a symptom.

00:36:58.300 That's the randomness of this disease.

00:37:00.660 You just don't know who it's going to hit.

00:37:03.040 But we do know that if you get a little bit older, if you have asthma, if you're overweight, you know, so I go three for three on that one.

00:37:10.340 And, you know, that it affects those people more.

00:37:14.920 And so, you know, it was a really scary time, Megan, especially those first three days.

00:37:18.960 Because also, what people don't think about is you're also in isolation.

00:37:22.240 So, you are by yourself with just your thoughts and you're focusing on every symptom and whether it's getting worse.

00:37:32.060 And that, to me, the hardest part of the first three days was monitoring myself and the fear that came along with that.

00:37:41.420 And so, you know, listen, I was someone who was very good about wearing my mask.

00:37:46.040 For seven months, I wore my mask every time I went outside, every time, you know, I was going into a group of people because I had asthma and I was concerned about getting it.

00:37:56.620 And I let my guard down for four days.

00:37:59.680 Four days and only let my guard down and only took the mask off when I was inside the gates of the White House.

00:38:06.300 Because I was tested every day that I was there.

00:38:08.500 And I was led to believe that everybody else was tested.

00:38:11.680 Turns out that's not true.

00:38:13.860 And so, I think that what I want people to learn why I gave the interviews I gave afterwards and wrote the op-ed for the Wall Street Journal was to let people know that you're not safe anywhere from this virus.

00:38:24.740 And that you should never let your guard down.

00:38:26.920 Because the ramifications of it, for me, I'm fortunate, like you said, when we got together this morning, glad you're alive.

00:38:34.760 Me too.

00:38:35.720 And it could have gone the other way.

00:38:37.100 And I have two daughters to walk down the aisle yet.

00:38:40.300 And I'm not done with my life.

00:38:42.260 And I'm just thankful to God and to everybody out there who was praying for me.

00:38:47.840 I got an amazing number of letters and cards and emails where people were praying for me.

00:38:52.360 And I know that the great medical care I got and the power of those prayers combined, you know, have me sitting here talking to you today.

00:38:59.160 But notwithstanding what you've been through, you don't sound pro-lockdown, pro-another lockdown.

00:39:06.800 Not because I do believe that with the use of masks, with the washing your hands frequently, and with staying out of big crowds, that we can flatten this curve and we can survive till the vaccines get here.

00:39:23.180 Does that mean that no one will die?

00:39:25.820 No, Megan, it doesn't.

00:39:27.160 This is a pandemic.

00:39:28.820 And in a pandemic, some people will die.

00:39:31.920 But guess what?

00:39:32.980 During the lockdown, people died too.

00:39:34.740 So we can't think that there's some type of cure-all outside of a vaccine, which, you know, in both the case of Pfizer and Moderna, appear to be 95% effective.

00:39:47.860 People should understand how great that is.

00:39:50.280 The flu shot is usually generally 50% to 60% effective.

00:39:55.220 So you have vaccines here that show 95% effectiveness.

00:39:59.640 That's going to mean a lot for this country.

00:40:01.540 But until then, I don't believe we should shut down.

00:40:03.880 I believe we should continue on with our lives, but taking those common sense steps.

00:40:09.540 And most public health people are saying exactly the same thing.

00:40:14.260 Well, I mean, whatever people may think of Trump and how he handled COVID, he does deserve huge credit for sparking the race toward a vaccine.

00:40:25.300 And Pfizer was part of that.

00:40:27.800 And we got one.

00:40:29.580 I mean, miraculously, we got one in record time.

00:40:32.680 In fact, we have now a couple companies with one that's 95% effective.

00:40:36.980 And I wonder, you know, on the subject of Trump, just to tie the two subjects we've been discussing back together, what does he do now?

00:40:44.900 Let's say the legal challenges play out and they don't go in his favor.

00:40:49.780 The December 14th is the date by which the Electoral College delegates in each state meet to vote.

00:40:55.840 There's a lot of speculation about whether Trump would ever walk out of the White House, quote, a loser, you know, which is uncharitable or, you know, having lost and whether he would ever attend an inauguration peacefully past the baton.

00:41:12.640 What do you think?

00:41:13.260 Well, listen, I think the president will leave on January 20th or before I think any speculation that he would, you know, kind of stay in the White House just is ridiculous.

00:41:23.980 That's not who did not not the guy I know.

00:41:26.100 So I would say that in terms of whether he'll attend the inauguration, if it's Joe Biden's inauguration, which I assume it will be, I think that if the president feels like he had the opportunity to pursue all of his legal remedies and that he fell short, I would hope that he would go.

00:41:43.620 And because I think it's an important part of the American transfer of power and the peaceful transfer of power for people to see that.

00:41:54.260 Now, let's remember, Megan, it's not unprecedented that American presidents don't go to their successors, their successors' inauguration.

00:42:02.580 John Adams did not go to Thomas Jefferson's because of the bitterness of that campaign and his feelings towards Jefferson at that time.

00:42:09.840 His son must run in the family.

00:42:11.600 John Quincy Adams did not go to Andrew Jackson's inaugural for the very same reason, a very bitter, ugly campaign.

00:42:19.020 And Harry Truman did not go to Dwight Eisenhower's inaugural because of the really bitter feelings, even though they didn't run against each other, between Harry Truman and Dwight Eisenhower.

00:42:29.660 So it's very rare, but not unprecedented.

00:42:34.080 And so the president's going to have to make a decision about which camp he wants to be in.

00:42:37.740 And I think that how he does in these legal challenges, meaning does he believe that he got a fair hearing, may have a role to play in all that.

00:42:48.640 All right. Last question.

00:42:49.420 I talked about you becoming a national star with those sparring matches.

00:42:55.160 And, you know, as we saw in the debate where you basically ended Marco Rubio's presidential run, it's tough to be on the wrong side of Chris Christie in a debate.

00:43:03.580 So what happens with you now?

00:43:05.280 What you've got to be looking a little bit towards 2024.

00:43:08.740 Are we going to see you throw your hat in the ring again? 0.88

00:43:10.840 Well, you know, Megan, obviously, you know, two weeks after the last election, you don't make any kind of decisions like that.

00:43:18.540 And if you do, you know, you're just being foolish because you don't know what life's going to bring you.

00:43:22.620 But let me answer it this way.

00:43:25.940 I wrote a book about a year and a half ago now on my life and my career to that point.

00:43:31.880 And the title of the book was Let Me Finish.

00:43:34.960 And I didn't title the book by mistake.

00:43:36.860 Hmm. Nice. Good cheese, Governor.

00:43:41.760 So good to talk to you and reconnect.

00:43:43.920 Well, Megan, it's great to reconnect with you.

00:43:46.280 Good to have a Jersey Shore person on the phone with another Jersey Shore person.

00:43:50.700 I am thrilled that your podcast is out there and doing so well.

00:43:54.820 And I want you to continue to be a strong voice to the American people.

00:43:58.420 You're an important part of our political and our cultural discussion.

00:44:02.180 Keep it up. I'm a big fan.

00:44:03.940 Thank you so much. Very grateful.

00:44:05.860 And, yeah, I'll see you down the shore.

00:44:08.060 You got it.

00:44:12.980 And we're going to go from Christy to Carvel.

00:44:15.100 James Carvel, that is, political guru of the left, always with interesting insights.

00:44:19.760 And today will be no disappointment.

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00:45:38.200 And now, James Carville.

00:45:41.820 James Carville, thank you so much for being here.

00:45:44.420 Great to be here, Megan.

00:45:45.520 I haven't seen you since my tenure at Fox back in like 2014.

00:45:49.000 So it's good to be talking to you again.

00:45:51.740 I know.

00:45:52.040 I always enjoyed our discussions.

00:45:53.520 And I love how you call it like you see it.

00:45:55.260 You don't really care much about how people are going to look at you, which I can relate to.

00:45:59.440 So let's start with where we are right now in this process.

00:46:02.540 I know you thought we'd have a result either election night or within 24 hours.

00:46:08.080 Not exactly, as it turns out.

00:46:10.940 I know most Democrats will come up to me and say, like, he lost, right?

00:46:13.860 He lost, right?

00:46:14.620 Reassure me.

00:46:15.060 He lost.

00:46:15.520 And Republicans will look at me and say, like, does he have anything?

00:46:18.060 Do you think there's anything he's got going that could really turn it?

00:46:20.900 So I ask you what you think in response to those.

00:46:24.060 First of all, I've had a pretty good set on television election night.

00:46:26.980 I was pretty sure he was going in.

00:46:28.700 And ensuing days, I'd say the next day and Thursday, it was evident.

00:46:33.560 It's not really that close of an election.

00:46:37.100 I mean, he's going to win the popular vote by somewhere between four and a half percent and five percent.

00:46:42.300 And, you know, he's got 306 electoral votes.

00:46:46.480 And I mean, some of the states, I mean, Georgia and Arizona were obviously very close.

00:46:53.020 Wisconsin was close.

00:46:54.120 Michigan wasn't even that close.

00:46:55.340 Neither was Pennsylvania.

00:46:56.140 So, I mean, yeah, we know it's the outcome of the election is done.

00:47:00.160 There's no doubt here.

00:47:02.040 Just given the unique circumstances we're in, we just have to wait for the Electoral College to meet.

00:47:12.820 But it's inevitable and it's 100 percent.

00:47:15.520 It's not like I said, it won't go down in history as a, you know, really tight election.

00:47:20.060 It's not a landslide, as some people hope, because I hope, but it was certainly a clear win.

00:47:25.560 So do you think, so December 14th is the date by which the Electoral College delegates are supposed to meet to vote?

00:47:30.720 Is that the date this is official?

00:47:32.400 I think that's it.

00:47:32.960 I think, you know, Brett, you know, when I get old, I see things.

00:47:36.580 But it's around that time.

00:47:37.640 But my best guess is that when they actually vote and it comes in, what effect is that going to have on Trump?

00:47:44.160 Is it the effect is that going to have on the supporters or whatnot?

00:47:48.260 I have no idea.

00:47:49.700 But it's as sure as we sit here that that's what's going to happen.

00:47:53.660 Let's talk about what happened down ballot.

00:47:55.320 This is while the Democrats were pleased with what happened at the presidential level, certainly there were real concerns about down ballot.

00:48:02.460 And I actually just I just started to look at it.

00:48:04.800 I mean, I realized that they they lost House seats instead of gain them.

00:48:08.480 And it doesn't look like they're going to win the Senate.

00:48:10.900 But then I started to look at what really was happening in the states.

00:48:14.320 There was a good report in The Atlantic that kind of laid it out.

00:48:17.480 And I thought, oh, gosh, well, James is a good person to ask about this.

00:48:19.760 This is what they said was Eric Holder, he formed this National Democratic Redistricting Committee.

00:48:26.640 And their goal was to flip state legislative chambers in 18 and 20 to give more power to the Democrats at the state level.

00:48:34.400 And that what really happened is they failed to flip a single legislative chamber that they lost majorities that they gained in states like New Hampshire.

00:48:41.980 In Texas, they needed nine seats to win the statehouse after they did make some inroads in 2018 and they failed to gain a single seat.

00:48:48.680 They struggled in Texas, Florida, Iowa, and North Carolina, where Trump did great and made it impossible for them to oust down ballot Republicans.

00:48:56.440 But even in states like Minnesota, they lost their majorities, which is a state Biden carried.

00:49:02.740 Same in New Hampshire.

00:49:03.600 So how did that happen?

00:49:05.940 Well, it's first of all, it's disappointing from a Democratic standpoint.

00:49:09.820 And look, just look at Florida, where $15 minimum wage got 60 percent of the vote and Biden barely broke 47.

00:49:19.600 I think that it was the whole leftist part of the Democratic Party, the far left.

00:49:29.040 I think they walked into a trap, to be honest with you.

00:49:36.060 They're, you know, and we're just not that effective in messaging down ballot.

00:49:41.860 I think we got knocked out of our 2018 game, where we did quite well, and we really spent our time talking about, you know, things like the minimum wage, things like prescription drug costs, things like expanding health care, things like infrastructure, things that were more relatable to people.

00:49:57.200 I think that President-elect Biden did a good job on that, probably maybe lost a little focus toward the end.

00:50:05.040 But there's no way that you can describe what happened below the presidential level as anything that was not encouraging result for Democrats.

00:50:17.960 What do you mean you got, they got walked into a trap?

00:50:20.660 What do you mean?

00:50:21.320 Well, I think that when people started saying defund the police, I think a lot of people heard something that was, that they didn't much care for.

00:50:32.520 I think that the country that made it at the moment after the George Floyd murder, I guess is the correct word to call it, sort of what I'd call it, there was a great deal of sympathy and a great deal of looking at it.

00:50:43.580 And they just, the left just went way off in a really, I thought, extreme position.

00:50:54.080 You know, the Democratic Party rather decisively decided what it wanted to be.

00:50:59.480 And you had a classic matchup between Joe Biden, who's been in Democratic politics since the early 70s, and Bernie Sanders, who offered a real left-wing agenda for America.

00:51:11.760 And he was highly funded, who was everywhere, and Biden beat him decisively.

00:51:16.720 But some of the messaging that got out and sloganeering that was going on, I think, had an adverse effect.

00:51:28.440 I really did.

00:51:29.440 You mean, I know you've spoken before about the woke, the woke killing the Democrats in some of these races.

00:51:36.120 People need to take, they need to take a nap, some of these people.

00:51:40.180 I mean, they don't even have a majority, they don't even have a remotely, they're a minority of the Democratic Party.

00:51:49.900 And somehow or another, they allow, we allow them to define the rest of us.

00:51:55.960 The Democratic Party made a very strong statement about that.

00:52:01.000 Look at the returns and how much better Biden did than Bernie Sanders.

00:52:06.540 I mean, you know, if you want to believe in democracy, it's pretty clear where not just the country stands, it's pretty clear where the Democratic Party stands.

00:52:18.920 We've been talking about that on this show, about how big is that leftist block within the Democrats.

00:52:24.540 I'm always quick to point out, liberals, that's not the same as leftists.

00:52:29.320 That's a, leftist is a different group.

00:52:30.960 I'm a liberal.

00:52:31.460 Right.

00:52:31.840 I'm a liberal.

00:52:32.760 I'm a liberal.

00:52:33.840 All right.

00:52:34.460 That, that, I'm not a moderate Democrat.

00:52:36.100 I'm a liberal Democrat.

00:52:36.980 I believe in expanding healthcare.

00:52:38.680 I believe in higher taxes on, on wealthy people.

00:52:41.440 I believe, you know, that there has to be, you know, I believe that government intervention that is smart and targeted can make people's lives better.

00:52:49.720 So I'm not, however, we, we, we can know exactly how strong they are because you can look, because again, Bernie Sanders was a classic leftist.

00:53:02.000 I mean, he didn't make any bones about it.

00:53:03.800 He, and he was very disciplined on message.

00:53:06.140 He was the best funded candidate out there.

00:53:08.800 He was in every debate.

00:53:10.760 Everybody had a chance to know exactly what he was for.

00:53:15.360 Joe Biden is a, you know, solid candidate.

00:53:18.380 I think you wouldn't know what he described as most exciting that, that, that they've ever seen.

00:53:22.700 And the, the result was overwhelmingly in favor of Biden.

00:53:27.940 So how they're not even that influential within the Democratic Party.

00:53:33.560 And then the answer is when Congresswoman Spanberger said, you know, you, you told the squad that you're the reason that we lost these races, that the answer is we should have done more canvassing.

00:53:46.200 I mean, come on, please, more canvassing.

00:53:49.840 Is that the answer?

00:53:51.840 Yeah.

00:53:52.300 Well, I think that AOC, I heard her in an interview with the New York Times the other day on the Daily saying it, we're not to blame.

00:53:58.980 It's not our messaging that's to blame.

00:54:01.060 It's where our voters got out.

00:54:04.040 They need our voters to get motivated and they do get motivated by things like that.

00:54:07.620 And they use those voters and what really needs to happen is the rest of the Democratic Party needs to listen to us.

00:54:13.540 Well, I, you, we just, we just listened to you.

00:54:18.180 You, you, you, you, we listened to you.

00:54:20.000 You spent hundreds of million dollars with Bernie Sanders on television.

00:54:23.020 You endorsed him.

00:54:24.820 I mean, we just went through this.

00:54:27.040 You had a forum.

00:54:28.180 You had a podium.

00:54:29.480 You were there.

00:54:30.340 You were defeated soundly, soundly.

00:54:37.700 How about what else did you need to see?

00:54:41.440 We had, we had, we had a, a, a contest and the contest had a definitive outcome and they want a rematch after losing 65-35.

00:54:51.300 Why don't you figure a way to advance your ideas within the broader Democratic coalition?

00:55:00.620 All right.

00:55:01.260 I mean, but they have a big microphone, James.

00:55:04.260 I mean, you, you, I think they've done a good job of, they have done a good job of tarring Democrats with all this woke stuff.

00:55:11.000 Well, the press, a lot of the press loves this story, right?

00:55:16.300 I mean, they just love it.

00:55:17.920 And the truth of the matter is, it's not, but on the other hand, questioned.

00:55:21.960 They are, they are a small part of the Democratic, Democratic coalition.

00:55:28.160 I mean, if you would have thought it was an earthquake that they, they win seats in central Boston and the Bronx, which, you know, when they come back and win a seat that has under a partisan vote,

00:55:41.000 voting index on Cook, a bunch of plus Democratic 20, I'll be in, I'll be impressed.

00:55:46.980 I mean, they, they don't respect voters, all right?

00:55:51.380 Democratic voters.

00:55:52.640 And I, and I'm talking about, you know, black voters in the Mississippi Delta and suburban women in Fairfax County.

00:56:00.140 They decidedly said what they wanted.

00:56:03.020 And these people just don't have any respect for these voters.

00:56:05.700 They, apparently they think that they're smarter than Democratic voters.

00:56:09.960 I don't know.

00:56:11.000 And no one challenges them.

00:56:13.180 You had a chance.

00:56:15.120 You put, you had, you had the best candidate you could imagine out there.

00:56:18.760 There's nobody that ever run for president has had more message discipline than Bernie Sanders.

00:56:23.080 He had the most money.

00:56:24.680 He had the most everything.

00:56:26.360 And if you're so mobilized and you represent so many people, why did you get your ass beat?

00:56:31.600 It's just a simple question.

00:56:32.480 What do you think it is specifically?

00:56:33.740 What, what specifically do you think is, is the messaging that's problematic?

00:56:36.860 Well, this is a country, people keep saying this is a center-right country.

00:56:42.700 I disagree with that.

00:56:43.420 I think it's a center-left country.

00:56:45.320 You know, again, you look at things like the minimum wage, but I'm not going to, it's an argument that just goes on and on.

00:56:51.780 And we'll never get resolved.

00:56:55.540 I mean, people did not want, you know, to ban private health insurance.

00:57:02.160 I mean, it's simple.

00:57:03.100 It was not.

00:57:04.080 And once people would touch it, once Elizabeth Warren touched that, she was done.

00:57:09.420 And I'm talking about within the Democratic Party.

00:57:11.720 We hadn't even gotten out of the Democratic Party yet to where we run in a general election.

00:57:17.340 And they just, they have contempt.

00:57:21.620 But first of all, Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat.

00:57:24.020 I don't think AOC is a Democrat either.

00:57:25.780 And they, at some level, they expressed contempt for our voters because our voters told them exactly what they thought of it, which was very little.

00:57:37.840 What do you think about the, it's not only the woke stuff from that crew, but a lot of sweeping condemnations of Trump voters.

00:57:48.060 And, you know, you got Biden at the top calling for unity, which, you know, I, I'll give Biden the benefit of the doubt and say he actually would like that.

00:57:56.240 But the problem isn't Biden so much as like the squad.

00:58:00.520 And, and just two days ago, you had Ilhan Omar out there.

00:58:04.660 I'll, I'll let the soundbite speak for itself, but here's how she refers to the Trump rallies.

00:58:09.060 Take a listen.

00:58:09.760 He chose to speak about me at every single rally.

00:58:15.600 It didn't really matter where he was.

00:58:17.460 Sometimes multiple times in a day, as he held his Klan rallies throughout the country. 0.53

00:58:26.900 What comes through is that she's really about herself.

00:58:30.940 Okay.

00:58:31.980 So, so we, we did a project.

00:58:35.120 I was part of a project and you can look it up.

00:58:37.260 It's called American Bridge.

00:58:39.700 We spent $80 million in 77 counties, mostly rural and small towns in Pennsylvania, Michigan.

00:58:46.740 In Wisconsin.

00:58:48.660 And we had a real impact on the vote.

00:58:52.280 Right.

00:58:53.100 And we, what we did is we did it was all generic.

00:58:56.760 It was all people in their own voices, you know, and it was, we, we did, we call created a permission structure.

00:59:02.480 And it said, look, you know, I voted for Trump in 2016, but I feel this way.

00:59:08.020 And, and you can, it's probably on our website.

00:59:12.060 And when you look at the difference that it made, and if the Democrats have to understand, I can't pound this in the head enough.

00:59:20.680 18% of the country elects 52 senators.

00:59:23.960 You can't get it done with the urban core.

00:59:26.400 I'm sorry.

00:59:27.740 It's impossible.

00:59:29.240 It's not going to change.

00:59:32.100 The Senate is not going to change.

00:59:35.220 And until you develop a broad strategy that encompasses everyone, then, yeah, you can, you, you, you can win the popular vote in presidential election.

00:59:47.480 You're probably going to do that fairly.

00:59:49.080 And you can, you know, Biden's got an impressive win here, but if you try to run this urban strategy, you're, you're doomed to fail.

01:00:01.000 It just, the, the, the math is not there.

01:00:04.860 And, you know, and these people have ultimate safe seats so they can say anything they want to.

01:00:12.940 And then the Democrats are out there, like Abigail Spanberg, who's in a not safe seat, you know, thank God she won, but it was, it was really close.

01:00:22.900 They just can't accept, basically, the party does not agree with you.

01:00:27.860 And instead of saying, how do we, how do we fit in or how do we try to advance some of our ideas in the Democratic Party, they just ignore the election results.

01:00:37.600 And, you know, and, and, and, and, of course, you know, and a lot of people don't like this, this whole tyranny.

01:00:46.900 I don't know what the, what the word is, cancel culture or, or, or whatever.

01:00:51.900 But most people don't live their lives like that.

01:00:54.820 And tyranny is tyranny.

01:00:56.500 If it's tyranny from the right, it's tyranny.

01:00:57.940 If it's tyranny from the left, it's tyranny.

01:00:59.240 Well, what do you think is going to happen now?

01:01:01.140 Because some of these groups are, are sort of rearing up and saying, we put you in office and we expect to be, to be heard.

01:01:10.120 You know, there was the Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrice Cullors, who wrote an open letter to Biden and Harris saying, we want something for our vote.

01:01:18.740 And re, re, you know, double down on, we want the police defunded.

01:01:24.020 And, you know, they say, if you don't want that, then you're in favor of police killing Black people.

01:01:29.360 And, you know, and like you say, I think the vast majority of Americans, even I think Al Sharpton came out and said that that's nonsense.

01:01:35.660 Like people don't want the police defunded.

01:01:37.440 Black people don't want the police defunded.

01:01:39.680 Let me just start before we go any further.

01:01:42.120 There is a significant problem with policing and race in this country.

01:01:47.580 Right.

01:01:48.140 There just is.

01:01:48.740 And you can go statistic after statistic.

01:01:52.740 You don't even have to do, you know, headline videos.

01:01:56.880 So let's start that.

01:01:58.880 How do you, how, how does a society, because if you do, I've seen a lot of males races, a lot of focus groups.

01:02:06.080 And one of the biggest complaints that poor people have or Black people have is, well, yeah, if it's in the French Quarter, the police get there in three minutes.

01:02:15.220 If it's out here in New Orleans East, it takes three hours.

01:02:17.660 And, of course, I think anybody would tell you that you could certainly, they could reorient the police.

01:02:27.180 You could have social workers going out and breaking up marital disputes. 0.91

01:02:30.680 There's where more policemen are killed, by the way, breaking up marital disputes than they are breaking up armed robberies.

01:02:35.300 All right.

01:02:36.660 There may be ways to have more effective policing, but we're not going to, we're not going to, nor should we, nor, you know, get rid of police.

01:02:47.560 And, by the way, the most integrated institution in the United States is high-end policing in urban areas.

01:02:55.940 Mm-hmm.

01:02:56.800 All right.

01:02:57.140 I actually would consider myself a supporter of Black Lives Matter because one of the real structures of institutional white supremacy, which I'm definitely opposed to, is that you devalue black lives.

01:03:15.620 You know, you look at a crime set, you say, well, gee, that's not in my neighborhood.

01:03:21.240 All right.

01:03:21.440 So, I mean, the concept that the slogan is one, and when it came out, it had, remember, a lot of people supported that.

01:03:31.760 Oh, yeah, the slogan, I don't think it'd be.

01:03:34.220 It's right.

01:03:34.900 I don't have, I mean, and I don't, I understand, and I never say, yeah, but all lives matter.

01:03:40.800 I understand that, but that's not what they're saying.

01:03:43.460 And that there, that there's just such a history in this country, or the world, I'm sure, of just devaluing the lives of black people. 1.00

01:03:51.880 And, and, and, and, and, and, and I think that in talking about how we can, you know, as a society, we can have more effective policing, more humane policing, I think a lot of people would have been open to that.

01:04:06.520 A lot of people would have been open to that and understand that.

01:04:11.680 But, of course, they never, they, they're always right, no matter what.

01:04:19.320 So, you know, so then after you lose and everything, you said, well, you need more canvassing, please.

01:04:28.540 I mean, that's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard in my life.

01:04:32.640 And your point is, it's not that we didn't get out there and canvas.

01:04:35.140 It's that your message of defunding the police and related issues didn't resonate.

01:04:40.020 And you got to come to terms with that.

01:04:42.120 It resonated the wrong way.

01:04:45.180 It resonated, all right.

01:04:47.120 It just resonated the wrong way.

01:04:51.040 Spanberger, right?

01:04:51.840 Is that, is that her name?

01:04:52.820 Abigail.

01:04:53.260 I think it's Abigail.

01:04:54.340 Sorry, Abigail.

01:04:55.080 Okay.

01:04:55.420 In the Virginia Congresswoman who said, this is, this defund police thing is killing us.

01:04:59.120 It's killing us.

01:04:59.920 Like, we just, we should never mention that.

01:05:01.620 And we should stay 25 feet away from socialist.

01:05:05.280 But, but, but the response to that in the meeting by Rashida Tlaib was, what you're really saying is you don't care about black voices.

01:05:12.920 I mean, that, that's where we are.

01:05:15.920 I had, if, if, if, if I, I'm not going to tell you because they're friends of mine, but the number of black leaders that have called me, all right, that in, and express disdain for this is, they're pretty powerful people.

01:05:33.180 Did you see what James Clyburn said?

01:05:36.480 I mean, he, he, he just, he just had enough of it.

01:05:39.460 I mean, I, I, I haven't talked, I, I haven't talked to, to Congressman Clyburn since the election, but I've talked to him frequently before that.

01:05:47.780 And he was very public about it.

01:05:50.700 Well, I feel like we've had a few black leaders come out and say, we're, we're not for this, but I don't, I do think you're right that the media is part of the problem.

01:06:00.080 Because if you watched a lot of the media, you would think this is a mainstream position that people need to be canceled.

01:06:06.460 It is a small part of the Democratic Party.

01:06:10.460 All they have to do is go look at the, you know, what election returns.

01:06:15.960 But you know, what's happening in a, in a country, it's cultural now, right?

01:06:19.500 It's like, we've been talking about this on the show where your employer says you got to go to some implicit bias race training, or you can't work there.

01:06:27.760 And then the white people are told to just sit there in silence while they're shamed for past actions of the United States.

01:06:33.220 And it creates racial division.

01:06:36.120 Then it becomes partisan.

01:06:38.700 I, you know, that gets, that gets tagged on, on the Democrats too.

01:06:42.840 Not, you know, Joe Biden hasn't really been pushing that stuff, although he did say he's bringing back these critical race theory, quote, training sessions.

01:06:49.400 So how do, how do we resolve that?

01:06:51.660 I think that some people, you know, I don't think workplace, you can make it a genuine and more secure place for people without, without going like totally like overboard.

01:07:01.800 I mean, American history, the real American history is infused with enough racism to make you sick.

01:07:08.300 They don't have to add more to it.

01:07:09.600 The actual truth is pretty bad, but yeah, it just becomes, you know, people can't constrain themselves and then you get, you get, you get out there.

01:07:24.840 But I'm not a, you know, I mean, you know, you've faced issues in, in, in your life.

01:07:33.660 It's something you can't, sure can't say that sexism out there is not real because it is.

01:07:37.380 And there are certainly things that people can do that can, you know, you can make people more aware.

01:07:47.380 It, it, it, it, it, it, it can improve people's lives, but sometimes they just go like overboard and then you have all these like consulting firms that go sell these companies and stuff.

01:07:57.100 And it's like anything else, you know, you know, there was a longshoreman philosopher back in the eighties called Eric Hoffer.

01:08:05.760 And he made one of the smartest observations I've ever heard in my life.

01:08:11.920 He said that every movement starts out as a cause, morphs into a business and ends up a racket.

01:08:18.820 And you can just see that in everything you see.

01:08:24.820 And I, I'll give Trump credit.

01:08:26.600 He just went right to a racket, but most, most of the time people start, Hey, let's get together.

01:08:33.120 You know, let's, let's have a, a church and true believers and say, well, we've got to bond drive this thing.

01:08:38.620 So let's, you know, pass the collection plate.

01:08:42.200 And somebody says, yeah, yeah, let's start a foundation and then we can pay everybody out of it.

01:08:46.520 I mean, it just, it just, any, any movement, no matter from what side, ideological spectrum that you come from or anything is always subjected to the natural evolution of things cause business racket.

01:09:04.960 So what do you make of what's happening right now?

01:09:07.640 And this is part of the broader messaging, but when it comes to unity, you're, you're married to a brilliant Republican.

01:09:14.000 Everyone loves your marriage because it's, sadly, it's weird for a Democrat and a Republican to be so, so kind to one another that they fall in love and have a happy marriage.

01:09:25.440 But you know, a thing or two about unity and how to get along with somebody whose political views are diametrically opposed to your own.

01:09:33.240 Well, when we got married, it was more common than it is now, I guess.

01:09:38.800 And I don't know, well, first of all, Trump is the greatest anti-unifier that ever lived.

01:09:51.160 And hopefully, President-elect Biden, you know, I think there are people that are kind of looking for an exit ramp,

01:09:59.800 but are unsure of how to, how to do it.

01:10:07.900 And I hope that he has the wherewithal and the skills to, you know, we're always going to be pretty divided country.

01:10:17.240 It's extreme right now.

01:10:19.160 But maybe, you know, he's the, everybody's hoping, well, maybe that's the guy we need.

01:10:27.000 Maybe he's a little older.

01:10:28.440 Maybe he's not that, you know, fiery.

01:10:31.680 Maybe he seems like he's kind of nice to everybody.

01:10:34.340 Maybe, you know, I have some, I got to have some hope that this kind of example will help people.

01:10:43.240 But, you know, there's a story by a really good reporter that names people that they're scared to death that Trump is going to sell the nation's secrets to the Russians.

01:10:54.860 There's a guy named Shane Harris.

01:10:56.020 You can look the story up.

01:10:58.160 I had him on my podcast.

01:10:59.340 I said, let me say, you're a journalist with 17 years reporting.

01:11:03.380 You named names in your story.

01:11:04.840 It was not, it was not on the condition of anonymity, of people just flat out saying.

01:11:12.780 I told my students at LSU, I said, you know, I sat in this classroom and I said,

01:11:16.080 I wonder what it would like if you were sitting here in January of 1861 or January of 1941.

01:11:23.160 I don't know, maybe you're sitting here.

01:11:24.840 I mean, if you look at, to me, which are the two most massive problems that this country faces,

01:11:33.580 one is inequality and the other is climate, probably in somewhat reverse order because I think inequality would be easier to fix than climate.

01:11:43.420 But it, and to me, it is so evident that on every level that those two issues just dwarf everything.

01:11:52.220 And I, I don't know how we're going to, you know, reorient, reorient ourselves and.

01:12:01.040 Well, that's, can I say that's, that's what I find so impossible about it.

01:12:06.180 So Biden gets up there and says like, yeah, let's, what he actually said was we're united, we're healed.

01:12:12.020 So no, we're not.

01:12:14.180 And I don't see us getting there, but, but listen, what he means is unite around my agenda.

01:12:18.420 And I wasn't thinking about the Republicans thinking they're like, yeah, we're totally up for uniting.

01:12:23.340 And so you're going to unite, unite around our, our pro-life policies.

01:12:27.500 Come on over.

01:12:28.280 It's great.

01:12:28.700 We'll work together.

01:12:29.380 We'll all be as one.

01:12:30.340 You can have, we've had political divisions and disagreements.

01:12:34.860 I'm just telling you, inequality and climate are existential threats.

01:12:39.220 How so?

01:12:39.620 What do you mean inequality?

01:12:41.840 Inequality is that if you go, look at conservatives and economists, they'll tell you the same thing.

01:12:46.940 The growing gap between rich people and poor people and the pandemic is nothing, has nothing, nothing, but make it worse.

01:12:56.860 That at, at, at, at an end, and I mean, I think some of the, the disorder we have, probably a lot of it from both the left and the right are being fueled by this sense of abandonment of inequality of, I don't have any place for me to go in my life.

01:13:13.040 And, you know, the, the, the, the 1% or go, whatever you want to call it, or take it off like that.

01:13:18.380 How could anybody be idiotic enough to deny that there's not profound and, and adverse things happen to our climate?

01:13:25.680 We had a category five hurricane in the middle of November, right?

01:13:30.280 I mean, please.

01:13:32.120 And that doesn't prove that we have a climate problem.

01:13:34.100 Of course, God.

01:13:35.240 No, come on. 0.85

01:13:36.980 I can't, look.

01:13:39.120 To argue that there's not a climate crisis.

01:13:40.880 I'm not arguing that there's no climate change.

01:13:43.040 I would say one event, one event can't prove a thing.

01:13:47.240 No.

01:13:47.880 You know how we got to Hurricane Iota?

01:13:51.100 Do you know how you get to Iota?

01:13:53.100 Yeah, you got to go through every other letter.

01:13:54.840 Yeah, you got to go through every other letter.

01:13:56.720 Then you got to start with the Greek alphabet.

01:13:59.480 All right?

01:14:00.400 That's how you got there.

01:14:00.860 When you got to go Greek. 0.78

01:14:02.480 Yeah, when you got to go Greek.

01:14:03.660 No, listen, I, I got to, but listen, I understand.

01:14:06.000 I don't want to debate on climate change because it happens to be an issue that I feel strongly about too.

01:14:10.820 I mean, I believe in it.

01:14:11.600 I believe in climate change.

01:14:12.520 The only question is, is, is who's causing it?

01:14:15.980 Well, of course we know who's causing it.

01:14:17.740 So Biden during the debates is saying, yes, he wants to put an end to the oil industry and then gets up there and says, unite.

01:14:23.300 Well, the Republicans aren't going to agree with that.

01:14:25.040 The oil companies don't want, you know what I'm saying?

01:14:26.720 Like, I understand.

01:14:27.520 If he had said, let's lower the temperature.

01:14:28.780 Tell me, tell me where Biden said, I want to get rid of the oil industry.

01:14:32.500 He said it explicitly in his second debate with Trump.

01:14:34.800 I said, again, he did.

01:14:36.740 He said he'd like to see us be off of fossil fuels by 2050.

01:14:39.940 So would everybody else.

01:14:41.400 The unfortunate thing is, we'll probably for the most part be off of most of them.

01:14:46.400 The question is, what about between now and then?

01:14:49.180 I mean, people are not going to stop driving cars, but I don't think that anybody is going to be driving a piston, running a new car with a piston engine, but probably in five years.

01:15:05.200 I mean, and some of it is just economic.

01:15:09.100 I mean, it just needs to be the battery storage capacity has gotten so, so effective.

01:15:15.820 I'm just saying, he said it explicitly.

01:15:17.920 And if you're in the oil industry, and this is a quote, here's the quote here.

01:15:21.920 You did too.

01:15:22.900 He said, I would transition away from the oil industry.

01:15:26.560 Yes.

01:15:27.280 The oil industry pollutes significantly.

01:15:29.640 It has to be replaced by renewable energy over time.

01:15:32.800 That's as explicit as you're going to get from a politician.

01:15:36.000 Is that controversial?

01:15:37.200 Yes, yes, it is.

01:15:38.240 To me, that is not remotely.

01:15:41.100 That is not remotely.

01:15:41.600 That's because of your belief system.

01:15:42.900 But if, you know, if you work, if you work in the oil industry in Pennsylvania, that's

01:15:47.920 you know, people worked in the buggy whip manufacturing business.

01:15:52.000 All right.

01:15:52.260 People work in, people work in a lot of different things.

01:15:56.520 And he didn't say he's getting, he's saying we have to trans, we have to transform to renewables.

01:16:02.520 No, he said, we are.

01:16:03.940 He said, transport, transition away from the oil industry.

01:16:06.660 Yes, he is very clear.

01:16:08.020 Of course we do.

01:16:08.620 But you tell me.

01:16:09.720 He said, get rid of it.

01:16:10.680 Yeah.

01:16:10.800 Look, Megan, we just don't want, we, I am just fanatical on this subject.

01:16:15.260 I know.

01:16:16.060 I get it.

01:16:16.560 You're telling to your view.

01:16:17.760 But don't, let's not pretend these are universal issues we can all unite on without disagreement.

01:16:21.480 You know what, if you don't, if you don't think that we need to transition from fossil

01:16:25.720 fuels to renewables, I think you better like try to read up and rethink this.

01:16:32.320 Now, we're certainly not going to be able to do it tomorrow, but I would 100,000% agree

01:16:39.420 with the statement that we need to transform from fossil fuels to renewables.

01:16:43.880 I just think, you know, we're, we're so far apart and it's, it's going to be hard to put

01:16:48.360 the egg back together because I look around as like, you got this Trump accountability

01:16:53.620 project, making lists of the people who quote enabled him.

01:16:56.820 Well, what I really think is screw you, Trump accountability list keepers, right?

01:17:00.300 That's politics.

01:17:01.240 We, we work for Republicans.

01:17:03.240 We work for Democrats.

01:17:04.140 We move on with our lives.

01:17:05.140 There's no point in demonizing an entire group of people as.

01:17:09.100 Well, if they're going to have, you know, that, that, I think they'll probably have

01:17:14.900 a difficult time without employment.

01:17:16.860 I think you know that.

01:17:18.480 But people have a right, you know, if people have a right, it's nothing to re-speech.

01:17:23.340 If you say, I don't, I don't think you should hire this guy because of that, or you should

01:17:26.420 hire some, I don't know.

01:17:28.460 That's not where my head is.

01:17:30.440 You know, people, human beings, George Mitchell said that, you know, only human beings can make

01:17:38.700 war and only human beings can stop wars.

01:17:42.500 And to, to say that we can't get through this is, I think is to, to not give history

01:17:49.220 its due at some point.

01:17:50.760 I mean, uh, in every threat that we have by death, you know, in the world, if we deal

01:17:58.040 with what it's got, my opinion is nothing but worse.

01:18:00.800 And I, maybe the president elected, maybe the new Congress, you know, who knows, maybe

01:18:09.280 they're, I don't know, maybe they'll get moved by the Holy Spirit or something.

01:18:13.200 I have no idea.

01:18:14.560 But I mean, that's kind of what I'm, what I'm open for.

01:18:17.440 But I, I think his tone is going to be, you know, I think he's trying to do what he can

01:18:26.380 to, to at least bring a, a, a, as a preamble, a more perfect union, not, you know, we know

01:18:33.180 even the founders didn't think we're going to have a perfect union, but I think there's

01:18:37.040 real progress to make.

01:18:38.140 I think he's going to try.

01:18:39.460 I hope he makes it.

01:18:41.420 Yeah.

01:18:41.740 Well, listen, yeah, I do believe in rooting for the president of the United States.

01:18:45.240 You may not love his agenda, but we got to, we got to root for our president because we're

01:18:48.820 Americans and, uh, I'll be rooting for him.

01:18:50.680 Same as I rooted for Trump to do well and do well on behalf of the country.

01:18:54.140 And, you know, whatever you think of the policy, America, America first and all it brought

01:18:57.920 that, that is a principle sort of like black lives matter, just as a principle we can get

01:19:03.100 behind.

01:19:03.580 And I hope Trump remembers it over the next month.

01:19:05.740 And I hope Biden remembers it when dealing with his, with the squad and others who are trying

01:19:10.680 to pull him leftward.

01:19:12.580 James, this reminds me of our debates on Fox.

01:19:14.480 I always loved him and I loved today's as well.

01:19:17.040 Thanks for being here.

01:19:18.260 You bet.

01:19:18.900 I appreciate it.

01:19:22.000 James Carvel.

01:19:23.060 That's why they call him the raging Cajun.

01:19:25.200 You know, he's from Louisiana and he's spicy and that's what we love about him.

01:19:29.220 So it was great talking to him.

01:19:30.080 It was great talking to Chris Christie as well.

01:19:31.620 Super fun reconnecting with both of them.

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01:20:42.900 And you're welcome because you're going to love them.

01:20:45.160 Now we want to bring to you a feature that we call Asked and Answered here on the show

01:20:48.880 where you guys write in a question.

01:20:51.140 And if I'm able, I'll give you an answer.

01:20:53.280 And for this, we bring in our executive producer, Steve Krakauer with the question,

01:20:58.020 the man with the questions.

01:20:59.620 What's up, Steve?

01:21:01.540 And we've been getting lots of great questions.

01:21:03.760 They are being sent to us at questions at devilmaycaremedia.com.

01:21:07.860 Send them in.

01:21:08.600 We'll get them answered.

01:21:09.600 This one comes from Emily Tift, who says she's a huge fan of yours and truly believes what

01:21:14.540 she hears when she listens to the show, which is great.

01:21:16.980 But she wants to know, how can we know who and what to believe and who to trust when we

01:21:20.440 get our news?

01:21:21.080 She wants a recommendation of a few others who you can go to and get unbiased facts.

01:21:27.100 Hi, Emily.

01:21:27.520 Thank you so much for that.

01:21:28.720 That's a good question.

01:21:30.460 And maybe it will soon change.

01:21:32.460 I'm not sure because it looks like we're going to have a Biden administration soon.

01:21:38.100 But I will tell you, for now and for the past four years, I have chosen to trust disaffected

01:21:44.600 Republicans.

01:21:45.420 In other words, Republicans who are not never Trumpers, but who aren't totally on board with

01:21:49.640 Trump, because these are guys who are not biased against Republicans, but are not Trump

01:21:56.500 sycophants.

01:21:57.480 So they can see him.

01:21:59.820 They're kind of rooting for him, you know, like they're open minded to his successes, but

01:22:04.160 they're not robotic in their love for Trump.

01:22:06.780 And so they can report on him fairly.

01:22:09.100 And and for that, I love National Review.

01:22:12.740 I love those guys, Rich Lowry, Charles C.W.

01:22:15.400 Cook, who we put on this program.

01:22:17.620 I like their podcast called The Editors, and I just love their website.

01:22:21.600 You can you can sort of search around for the folks who you trust.

01:22:25.060 I also, as I've mentioned before, I go to real clear politics dot com every morning and

01:22:29.820 you can see editorials from the left and the right and from if you read both sides of an

01:22:33.920 issue, the truth will emerge.

01:22:36.060 And that for me has always been super helpful under any administration.

01:22:39.540 So that's where I'd start if I were you.

01:22:42.280 You know, to my apartment, I get The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal.

01:22:45.240 That's just too laborious to go through two full papers every morning, try to compare and

01:22:49.140 contrast for facts.

01:22:50.460 And the journal is very business oriented, which is not really what I'm looking for.

01:22:54.740 And The Times is so far left that both are proving to be less and less useful, though.

01:22:59.320 I do love that New York Times crossword, but only on Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday.

01:23:02.500 And then it just gets humiliating.

01:23:04.020 Anyway, those are my thoughts.

01:23:06.580 But it's a good question, Emily, especially in today's day and age.

01:23:12.820 On that note, I want to tell you that today's episode was brought to you in part by Norton

01:23:16.440 360 with LifeLock.

01:23:18.280 Protect yourself from cybercrime with the top trusted ally in today's connected world.

01:23:23.000 Go to Norton dot com slash MK to learn more.

01:23:26.880 Thank you all so much for listening.

01:23:28.160 In the meantime, if you've got a minute, go over, subscribe to the show, download the

01:23:33.080 show, rate the show five stars if you please, and drop me a review.

01:23:37.700 I love connecting.

01:23:38.480 I read them all.

01:23:39.420 I do.

01:23:39.860 And we've gotten actually quite a few good guest ideas in there.

01:23:43.040 And, you know, people give me lots of performance tips.

01:23:46.100 It's actually really fun to get the feedback.

01:23:49.260 So anyway, you got to subscribe to make it happen and download, rate and review.

01:23:53.800 So thank you for doing that and have a great weekend.

01:23:56.600 We'll see you Monday.

01:23:58.960 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

01:24:01.020 No BS, no agenda and no fear.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - November 20, 2020

Election Consequences, with Chris Christie and James Carville ｜ Ep. 27

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