The Megyn Kelly Show - Election Eve with Hugh Hewitt, Andrew Yang and Robert Cahaly

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00:00:31.000 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:41.820 Hey, everybody, it's Megyn Kelly and welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.580 This is it. This is election week.

00:00:49.180 And we are now within hours of the first official at polling stations, presidential votes being cast.

00:00:56.220 Of course, millions of people have already mailed in their votes, done early mail voting and so on, early voting.

00:01:01.400 But this is the last chance for these candidates to crisscross the nation and make their closing arguments.

00:01:07.600 We've got you covered today with both sides.

00:01:09.740 Today, we've got Hugh Hewitt joining us along with Andrew Yang making his first appearance on the show.

00:01:14.620 And then we will have that guy from Trafalgar Polls, the one who's the outlier, saying Trump is going to win.

00:01:20.520 He's the only pollster predicting that.

00:01:22.960 Join us on whether he still believes that and why.

00:01:25.900 So we've got all your stuff covered for you.

00:01:28.380 And I want to tell you, while I have your attention, that we'd love to hear more from you today.

00:01:32.240 Tomorrow on the show, we're going to be answering some of your election questions.

00:01:36.080 And so you can just email in your questions to us at questions, plural, at devilmaycaremedia.com.

00:01:43.340 Questions at devilmaycaremedia.com.

00:01:45.880 What do you want to know?

00:01:46.900 We've got a lot of experts here.

00:01:48.800 I don't know if I'd call myself an election expert, but I certainly have a lot of thoughts on the media and how it will be covered tomorrow and what to watch for.

00:01:54.460 So shoot us an email and we'll try to get to those tomorrow as we release our podcast, hopefully as early in the day as we can.

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00:04:01.280 And joining us now, Hugh Hewitt, the named proprietor of the nationally syndicated radio show, and it's a pleasure to have you on, Hugh.

00:04:09.880 How are you?

00:04:10.480 I'm good, Megan.

00:04:11.220 Good to be back.

00:04:12.100 Congratulations on the launch of this.

00:04:13.800 Wow, you've taken the internet by storm.

00:04:16.380 Oh, thank you, Hugh.

00:04:17.500 Thanks to guests like you and awesome listeners like we have tuning in.

00:04:20.460 It's been exciting.

00:04:21.780 Okay, so I'm excited.

00:04:23.460 Do you feel excited right now?

00:04:24.600 Yeah, I never get over it.

00:04:26.480 Never gets old.

00:04:27.140 I've been on radio or television on election night since 1990, sometimes both, this year

00:04:33.500 both, four years ago both.

00:04:35.600 And it never gets old.

00:04:37.840 I've been disappointed.

00:04:38.860 Again, I'm a Republican.

00:04:39.740 I've been disappointed some nights.

00:04:41.060 I've been thrilled other nights, but it never gets old.

00:04:43.560 I love election night.

00:04:44.460 I know, and it just makes me love America, because even though Trump has been rumbling

00:04:49.020 about, I won't leave if I lose, he will.

00:04:51.540 He'll go gracefully at some point.

00:04:53.780 And if Biden loses, he'll go gracefully, and there will be a peaceful transition of power

00:04:57.880 or continuation of it one way or the other.

00:05:00.620 It's one of the things that makes America great.

00:05:02.900 So, you know, everyone has their hopes for how it's going to turn out.

00:05:05.880 But I feel like the first and foremost thing is how beautiful America is and how amazing

00:05:09.420 our system is, how we've been doing this so, so well, I mean, relative to other countries

00:05:15.220 for a couple hundred years now.

00:05:17.400 OK, so one of the big things that broke over the weekend was news in Iowa.

00:05:23.220 They call it the Iowa poll, I guess.

00:05:24.880 It's the gold standard for statewide polling.

00:05:26.960 It has been for decades.

00:05:27.820 And they are now saying that Trump is up by seven points as Joe Biden fades.

00:05:33.920 And what the politicos are saying, Hugh, is that that's been the biggest fear of the

00:05:38.620 Democrats all along, that there would be a Joe Biden fade in some of these states as

00:05:42.940 we got closer and closer to the big vote, and that Iowa looks good for Trump now, but

00:05:47.680 it may be, you know, a bellwether for how other states could close over the next two days.

00:05:52.940 Your thoughts?

00:05:54.180 I agree with that.

00:05:54.960 I was speaking this morning on my radio show, Megan, with National Security Advisor, Ambassador

00:05:59.660 O'Brien.

00:06:00.240 He's on Air Force One with the president.

00:06:02.180 And he went to Iowa, I think, to Dubuque yesterday.

00:06:05.060 And he's not on for political reasons.

00:06:07.060 He's there because there's always a Security Council aide, either the ambassador or someone,

00:06:12.540 a deputy, with the president.

00:06:14.220 And the event, stuff like Armenia or Azerbaijan happens or hostages are rescued.

00:06:18.400 And he just could not believe the crowd in Iowa.

00:06:20.700 And I believe the reason that that is buoying Trump supporters, although there's a lot of

00:06:26.060 confirmation bias on both sides, everyone's grabbing onto their own best piece of news,

00:06:30.500 is that they're extrapolating the rural vote and the agricultural vote in Iowa and the surge

00:06:37.020 of Joni Ernst, the senator from Iowa, into other states with significant agricultural rural

00:06:42.520 votes like Michigan, like Wisconsin.

00:06:44.820 Indeed, even Ohio and Pennsylvania have pretty significant agricultural votes and rural votes.

00:06:51.460 So if they can extrapolate what has happened in Iowa, which is very dominantly rural agriculture,

00:06:58.260 to the other battleground states, it's a very good momentum play for President Trump.

00:07:03.220 On the other hand, there are very good indications for Joe Biden out there as well.

00:07:06.540 It's just confirmation bias stalks the land and everybody's looking.

00:07:11.320 And the Trump people are really looking at Iowa.

00:07:13.200 Yeah, so it is the Des Moines Register poll and everybody looks at this thing.

00:07:17.740 And what they're saying is the reason that this is tightened so much is because

00:07:21.320 the gender gap has narrowed and independents have returned to Trump.

00:07:26.380 Apparently, Biden had a 20 point lead with women before in September.

00:07:30.040 And Trump had a 21 percent lead with men.

00:07:34.660 And now Biden's lead with women has shrunk to nine percent percentage points.

00:07:38.540 So he's 50 to 41 over Trump.

00:07:40.720 So he's Trump is closing the gap with women and he's closing the gap with independents.

00:07:44.920 And that is the fear by Democrats in other states, because that's where Biden's made his

00:07:50.960 inroads in those two groups.

00:07:52.720 I agree with that.

00:07:53.960 And I think my my theory on this close on that demographic is Amy Coney Barrett.

00:07:58.640 And you as a lawyer can speak to this better than I can, Megan, as a woman lawyer.

00:08:03.340 I think that the president selected her and that she did such an overwhelmingly persuasive job.

00:08:09.840 She went from being a minority candidate with about 30 to 5 to 40 percent support to being

00:08:15.900 a majority candidate with an excessive 55 percent support.

00:08:19.660 And I believe that reflected well on Joni Ernst, who was on the committee.

00:08:23.560 I believe it reflected well on Susan Collins in Maine and on Martha McSally, though they

00:08:27.480 they were not in the committee and they both didn't vote for her.

00:08:30.500 I just think Amy Coney Barrett helped the Republican Party brand significantly.

00:08:34.820 And even with some of the people who were dug in completely negative Trump, they loved Amy

00:08:40.560 Coney Barrett.

00:08:41.260 It had to erode some of that anti-Trump feel.

00:08:44.560 You know, I wonder who I've been I've been talking about this a lot with my friends.

00:08:49.660 About women and Trump.

00:08:52.100 And here's what I've heard from some of my friends who I was actually in Long Island for

00:08:57.780 the weekend and and talked with a lot of women out there, some neighbors of my friend who

00:09:03.400 were saying secretly they're going to vote for Trump.

00:09:05.540 They're shy Trump voters who don't want anybody to know.

00:09:07.820 But they were talking about how it's it's it's they don't like Trump's manner.

00:09:14.040 They don't like some of the things he says, but they really don't like what's happening

00:09:18.820 in our schools and the cultural messages being shoved down our throat and white people all

00:09:25.040 being dubbed white supremacists because of their pigmentation.

00:09:27.600 And so they're thinking as they get closer.

00:09:30.800 I mean, there's one woman who lives across the street from my close friend who is saying

00:09:35.560 she like as she gets closer to voting, she doesn't think she can pull the lever in favor

00:09:41.620 of those other things.

00:09:42.540 So she's like, I don't like him, but I can't support those other things.

00:09:47.180 And I feel like as you get closer and closer to the actual vote, things start to crystallize

00:09:51.860 in that way.

00:09:53.460 I agree with you completely.

00:09:54.980 Now, I still know three never Trump women who are otherwise Republicans.

00:09:58.520 I know three.

00:09:59.480 And they have not moved an inch.

00:10:01.580 They did not vote for Joe Biden, but they're not voting for the president.

00:10:04.880 And I did a three hour radio show on Monday morning in which I only took calls from people

00:10:09.960 who had voted for Trump this year or intended to and did not vote for him in 2016.

00:10:14.720 I always caution folks, lawyers know anecdotal evidence is evidence of anecdotes.

00:10:19.040 That's all it is.

00:10:19.740 It's just calls.

00:10:21.280 But I love to talk to these people and get their story.

00:10:24.940 And the most persuasive caller was from Houston, Texas.

00:10:28.200 His wife and he have come around and they're evangelical.

00:10:31.120 They really loathed Trump four years ago, vulgar, obnoxious, cruel, mean.

00:10:37.680 You know, he laid it all out there.

00:10:39.360 He was not mincing words four years ago.

00:10:42.000 And he said he's still not very nice.

00:10:44.500 He's still mean.

00:10:45.540 But I got to vote for him because results matter.

00:10:48.880 I believe there are a lot of people in that didn't vote for him demographic that have come

00:10:53.820 back because of results.

00:10:55.720 And I also think this pandemic accounts for a lot of people voting.

00:11:00.140 And they might be for Biden.

00:11:03.260 They might be for Trump.

00:11:04.180 But a lot of them are coming out because they've got to get schools reopened.

00:11:07.200 You mentioned this.

00:11:08.500 I think it's a hidden issue.

00:11:09.780 I hope they pull for it in the exits.

00:11:11.980 But parents need their children to get back.

00:11:14.600 It's catastrophic.

00:11:16.600 Among the people who recognized this last week, Nick Kristof, who's a friend of mine on

00:11:20.260 the radio.

00:11:21.220 And he's a liberal, a classic New York Times liberal columnist.

00:11:25.820 But Nick came out last week and wrote, we've got to reopen schools.

00:11:28.400 The consequences for children of poverty, children in the inner city, children without

00:11:33.060 one parent at home all day long are catastrophic.

00:11:37.300 I think a lot of people who pull the trigger for Trump tomorrow who don't like him are doing

00:11:41.120 so because they have to get the schools reopened.

00:11:43.520 And Trump's pretty obvious the candidate of choice there.

00:11:47.220 I thought it was so interesting.

00:11:49.160 The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and both of these guys, Biden and Trump, folks, this is all about

00:11:54.120 Pennsylvania.

00:11:55.040 This is more than any other state about Pennsylvania.

00:11:59.460 And you can tell.

00:12:00.680 I mean, Trump over the next couple of days spent a good amount of time in Pennsylvania.

00:12:04.120 Biden spending, I think, both of the next two days in Pennsylvania.

00:12:07.520 Both of these guys want this state and they want it badly for good reason.

00:12:10.460 I mean, if Trump can hold on to his original core of states that he won last time, he can

00:12:16.320 afford to lose Michigan and Wisconsin and still win.

00:12:19.380 But that would require him to hold on to Pennsylvania.

00:12:22.740 So the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, for the first time since 1972, has come out and supported

00:12:29.620 Trump for president, a Republican for president.

00:12:33.140 And this is how they put it, Hugh.

00:12:34.760 I thought this is so interesting.

00:12:35.840 They say, he's unpresidential.

00:12:38.160 He is crude and unkind.

00:12:40.060 He's just not a good man.

00:12:41.900 These things and much worse are commonly said of President Trump.

00:12:45.180 His personality totally eclipses his record.

00:12:48.020 But what is this really about?

00:12:50.180 Isn't the real question whether he has been taking the country and the economy of this region

00:12:54.520 in the right direction these last four years?

00:12:57.540 Can we separate the man from the record?

00:13:00.500 And they go on to say, look, we are also embarrassed, as millions of Americans are,

00:13:05.020 by some of his unpresidential manners and character, his rudeness, his put-downs, his bragging,

00:13:10.480 his bending of the truth.

00:13:11.500 None of this is justifiable, they say.

00:13:13.580 They say, but look, Winston Churchill, he's not on the ballot.

00:13:16.980 And under Trump, the economy has been booming pre-COVID.

00:13:20.520 Our trade relationships have gotten better.

00:13:22.480 He appointed originalists to the Supreme Court.

00:13:25.120 Energy independence for the first time in the lifetimes of most of us.

00:13:28.120 He may not be a unifier, but he has remembered flyover country in a way no other president

00:13:34.820 has.

00:13:35.940 And they contrast it with Biden, you know who they say.

00:13:38.540 This is a quote from the same piece saying, but the Biden-Harris ticket offers us higher

00:13:43.340 taxes and a nanny state that will bow to the bullies and the woke who would tear down history

00:13:49.320 rather than learning from it and building up the country.

00:13:52.640 It offers an end to fracking and other cuckoo California dreams that will cost the economy

00:13:57.100 and the people who need work most right now.

00:13:58.840 That's, of course, Pennsylvania talking.

00:14:00.960 They conclude by saying good-paying green jobs are probably not jobs for Pittsburgh

00:14:04.300 or Cleveland or Toledo or Youngstown.

00:14:06.760 It offers softness on China and Mr. Trump understands that there are enemies and so on.

00:14:10.800 So I thought, to me, that sort of embodied what some of these previous never-Trumpers

00:14:16.760 or at least unenthusiastic, you know, Trump supporters or Trump, you know, voters at one

00:14:22.380 point were wrestling with.

00:14:24.580 I don't like him.

00:14:25.620 I don't want to say I endorse the mean tweets and the thin-skinned nature and the deceit.

00:14:29.780 But on paper, how do I vote for the other guy given what my principles might be?

00:14:35.600 And you know, Megan, I read that with great interest yesterday.

00:14:38.280 I grew up seven miles from Pennsylvania in Warren, Ohio, and Sharon was seven miles over.

00:14:43.480 And I've been up and down to the Pittsburgh Airport a hundred times probably in my life

00:14:48.580 going, it's easier to get to than John Hopkins in Cleveland for someone leaving from Warren

00:14:53.320 in the Youngstown and Steel Valley.

00:14:55.160 And so these are my people.

00:14:56.100 It's the same thing on the Trumbull County, Mahoning County side of the border over in

00:15:00.040 Sharon down to Beaver County.

00:15:02.060 They're all the same people.

00:15:03.320 They're steel workers and they're fracking enthusiasts.

00:15:06.400 But Pittsburgh Post-Gazette is also interesting for a particular reason.

00:15:10.120 If you go back and look, they had a woke problem.

00:15:12.620 They had reporters quitting on them and photographers quitting on them during the unrest of the

00:15:17.940 summer, alleging institutional and systemic bias at the newspaper.

00:15:22.120 They have also had a city that was shocked by anti-Semitic hatred, by violence against

00:15:27.000 the temple.

00:15:27.940 They have also watched Philadelphia convulse in the last week.

00:15:32.960 They're also very much in favor of having jobs after, you know, I left in 1978, as did

00:15:39.080 a lot of people from the region.

00:15:40.380 And the region is alive.

00:15:42.060 Pittsburgh, and it pains me to say this because they're Steelers fans.

00:15:45.060 It's a great city.

00:15:46.120 It's just an amazing city that is thriving and coming back.

00:15:49.780 You're kind of bookended.

00:15:50.840 You're an upstate New Yorker.

00:15:53.060 There are parts of the country that still don't understand what happened to the industrial

00:15:57.600 Midwest.

00:15:58.940 And they don't want to go back.

00:16:01.580 They've got some hope.

00:16:02.700 So when Vice President Biden was lured by President Trump into saying, I'm going to transition

00:16:10.400 from the oil industry, yes, they are polluters.

00:16:13.200 I thought, click, click, click.

00:16:15.920 It was the decisive moment of the debates.

00:16:19.260 And I also believe that that Pittsburgh Post-Gazette editorial, if Trump pulls off another upset, it

00:16:25.780 is dependent on Pennsylvania.

00:16:27.380 I know there are a lot of paths without Pennsylvania.

00:16:29.340 I don't believe it.

00:16:29.960 I think he's got to win Pennsylvania.

00:16:32.020 If he wins Pennsylvania, people will look back at that editorial as being the canary

00:16:36.340 in the mine of a repeat of 2016.

00:16:39.860 It's interesting you should say that about the nanny state situation there.

00:16:42.820 I do wonder how big a role that the whole woke culture is going to play in this election.

00:16:49.160 You know, it's been shoved down our throat by enabling media from papers to broadcasters,

00:16:56.620 corporate America, and so on.

00:16:58.180 And, you know, this is the voter's chance to stand up and say, no, no.

00:17:05.500 But I've also heard the debate, Hugh, that if you want that to stop, is Trump the best option?

00:17:11.480 You know, some people on the Biden supporting side will say things will calm down if you put him in office.

00:17:17.580 Trump is a divisive figure.

00:17:19.160 Trump makes the wokesters want to, you know, ride on their stallions all night long and, you know,

00:17:23.980 shout evil things about him.

00:17:26.020 But Biden, he's not some crazy left-wing wokest.

00:17:29.960 He'll sort of get in there.

00:17:31.260 He'll be moderate.

00:17:32.500 And people will calm down.

00:17:33.880 What do you think?

00:17:35.040 I don't buy that.

00:17:35.900 And I believe you and I are both products of national news media.

00:17:39.540 And we know the business pretty well.

00:17:42.400 And that business is not my talk radio business, but you and I both work for NBC.

00:17:46.320 I still work for NBC.

00:17:47.620 We know what the culture of big media is.

00:17:50.280 And the culture of big media is hypersensitivity to wokeness.

00:17:53.980 And by hypersensitivity, I mean beyond what anyone can possibly imagine,

00:17:59.700 the woke culture of the newsroom is an oppressive force.

00:18:03.520 Rod Dreher has just written a book called Live Not By Lies, in which he warns about soft totalitarianism.

00:18:09.520 By that, he simply means that people censor themselves for fear of retribution.

00:18:13.820 That is a broad in the land.

00:18:15.640 I don't know if it's the enormous surge in turnout.

00:18:19.380 There's a lot abroad in the land.

00:18:21.160 There's also great inequity.

00:18:22.680 There are lots of things.

00:18:23.600 The fact that I have to say that is, in fact, a product of woke culture.

00:18:28.060 You know, people can go and take excerpts from the Megyn Kelly podcast and Media Matters can say,

00:18:33.800 Hugh Hewitt ignored woke culture.

00:18:35.920 And all I can do is then make sure that I've characterized things accurately and carefully.

00:18:40.720 People are tired of living that way, Megyn.

00:18:43.340 Me too.

00:18:43.880 And I think-

00:18:44.220 Honestly, I don't want to say in 25 words what I could say in two.

00:18:48.460 Screw you.

00:18:49.440 You know, I just-

00:18:49.840 Thank you.

00:18:50.620 I'm sick of it.

00:18:51.320 I'm sick.

00:18:51.820 I am sick of these woke scolds, including Media Matters, which is the most dishonest organization

00:18:58.780 out there.

00:18:59.400 I couldn't give two figs what they write about me.

00:19:02.540 But the problem is most people do have to be scared.

00:19:05.520 They have to be really scared about what tweets they like and what they say publicly.

00:19:10.460 And I know we're going to get into this in a minute when the guy from Trafalgar joins us

00:19:14.720 about the shy Trump voters.

00:19:15.980 But my thing, Hugh, is like, I think there are a lot of people who have been letting it get

00:19:20.340 pent up for a long time.

00:19:21.880 And when they go into that polling station tomorrow, that's when they have their say.

00:19:26.540 That's the moment the people in Pittsburgh get to say, no more.

00:19:32.600 And they don't have to pretend.

00:19:34.480 Now, in Youngstown and Warren, people never pretended.

00:19:37.220 That's why they elected Jim Trafalgar, arguably the strangest member of Congress in the last 40

00:19:42.180 years.

00:19:43.260 But they did it because they don't care about woke culture.

00:19:46.680 They do not care about woke culture at all in the Steel Valley.

00:19:49.840 I think there are a lot of places in America, universities.

00:19:53.940 I mean, I've been on a faculty meeting at the Fowler School of Law at Chapman University

00:19:58.080 for 25 years, and it's gradually grown more liberal than it's gradually grown left.

00:20:03.080 I don't think that's a secret.

00:20:04.540 And I think every academic institution in the United States has gradually gone from liberal

00:20:09.500 to left to way left.

00:20:11.340 And there are a lot of workplaces, a lot of big tech places, Twitter, Jack Dorsey, censoring

00:20:19.400 the New York Post until he finally retreated like burns sides at Fredericksburg, having blown

00:20:24.440 his brand and completely lost the credibility of the idea of moderation.

00:20:29.340 It is everywhere.

00:20:30.700 And I don't know if it's the new 20 million voters.

00:20:33.860 We won't know until Wednesday morning or Thursday.

00:20:36.560 They might be African-American people who are turning out for the first time who believe

00:20:42.320 with Kamala Harris and woke culture and the promise of socialism that they're going to

00:20:47.320 get their due.

00:20:48.520 They're going to get.

00:20:49.020 Well, that's the other piece of it.

00:20:50.700 Yeah, that's you.

00:20:51.520 You just touched on the second piece of it because it's not just about woke culture.

00:20:54.100 It's also about who who's going to be in control of my life and my decisions, the government

00:20:59.940 or me.

00:21:02.520 Well, I'm a freedom guy.

00:21:03.740 And so I believe that that people ought always to choose freedom and never to choose government.

00:21:08.260 But I lived in California for 30 years.

00:21:11.060 So I moved back to the Beltway.

00:21:12.680 California has chosen progressively over the 1990 to 2020 cycle to move left and to being

00:21:20.540 cared for and having their decisions made for them.

00:21:23.040 And it is an untenable situation unless they move to single payer and unless they raise

00:21:28.160 taxes dramatically, they're broke.

00:21:30.260 And so people make that choice.

00:21:32.300 They want security over freedom.

00:21:34.040 I don't want that choice.

00:21:35.320 I don't think the middle of the country wants that choice.

00:21:38.040 Well, even California, you know, we talked last week about the ridiculous, ridiculous

00:21:42.820 restrictions that Gavin Newsom has put into place for Thanksgiving, where every Thanksgiving

00:21:48.600 celebration has to be held outside.

00:21:51.180 Inside, hello, Northern California is not a balmy place this time of year.

00:21:56.360 It can only be two hours.

00:21:58.200 Otherwise, Gavin Newsom will disapprove.

00:22:00.560 Something bad could happen.

00:22:01.840 But two hours and five minutes and you're in trouble.

00:22:04.980 You can only have family members from three different family groups.

00:22:07.700 In other words, so if my three kids were grown, my husband and I would count as one family

00:22:12.180 group.

00:22:12.460 And I'd have to choose two out of my three kids to come because it's like if they had

00:22:16.500 their own families at that point, you can let them use the indoor bathroom facilities,

00:22:20.260 but only if it's been sanitized in between each visit to it as well.

00:22:24.220 No singing and no shouting.

00:22:26.580 Hello.

00:22:27.080 Has anyone ever been to anyone's Thanksgiving?

00:22:28.960 Like it's part of that.

00:22:30.060 Like it's, it's, it's absurd.

00:22:33.520 It's a, and like the fact that there is a healthy portion of the population saying, if

00:22:39.820 you object, you die, you hate grandma.

00:22:42.320 We have to listen to Governor Gavin, you know, like Gavin knows all.

00:22:45.900 I mean this, Hugh, I can't believe it's gotten to this point.

00:22:49.660 Well, I actually like Gavin, but I thought he made a strategic mistake.

00:22:53.880 And by that, I mean this.

00:22:54.960 If I was the king of the forest, not queen, not Duke, not Earl, and I was Gavin, I would

00:22:59.800 have said, Hey, California, we're in the middle of a surge.

00:23:02.480 And so please act responsibly to the extent that you can, please don't expand your Thanksgiving

00:23:08.140 to the extent that you can, please consider being outdoors to the extent that you can do

00:23:13.060 safe practices, have hand sanitizer.

00:23:15.920 Please be responsible, golden state citizens.

00:23:18.520 That's what Pete Wilson would have done.

00:23:20.180 I know Pete pretty well.

00:23:21.240 I met my wife at a Pete Wilson fundraiser.

00:23:22.900 I talked to him on Thursday and the idea that you have to issue, you know, the Stassi

00:23:28.740 report where this is what you're going to do.

00:23:31.260 And we're going to encourage your neighbors to call in.

00:23:34.120 It is incredible to me that we do not trust the good sense of Americans to do what's right

00:23:40.400 by their fellow citizens.

00:23:41.860 They're at the point now where they're saying when you sit at your Thanksgiving table, of

00:23:44.900 course, outdoors, and you're shoving down the food in the minimum of two hours you have

00:23:47.840 maximum of two hours you have, you make sure everybody at the table has at least six

00:23:51.260 feet apart from them in each direction.

00:23:53.280 Who the hell's got that big a table where you got six feet in each direction you have

00:23:56.480 to separate by?

00:23:57.200 I mean, it's like it goes on and on.

00:23:59.500 All I can think is people have got to be getting sick of this.

00:24:02.640 That office, the governor's office out there just a week earlier had sent out an advisory

00:24:06.400 saying it's fine to eat in outdoor restaurants, but you have to put your mask on in between

00:24:10.760 bites, in between bites and in between sips.

00:24:13.600 And they said nothing during the justice demonstrations, which unfortunately in parts of LA became riots.

00:24:20.860 I believe it's interesting to me that they've had huge pro-tump turnouts in Beverly Hills,

00:24:26.880 which is a heavily Iranian-American area and therefore conservative, and in Orange County,

00:24:31.260 which has traditionally been Reagan land and Nixon land.

00:24:34.280 But nevertheless, large numbers, enormous numbers of people who are willing to, you'll talk to

00:24:40.680 the Trafalgar folks about social desirability bias.

00:24:44.020 They no longer care about social desirability bias.

00:24:47.680 That's kind of a breaking down of a wall.

00:24:50.400 As you said, screw you.

00:24:51.940 They are not going to be intimidated.

00:24:54.040 Now, I think we will come back from this.

00:24:55.520 I do not believe there's a permanent sense of differences among Americans.

00:25:00.760 Thanksgiving dinners may be more spirited, but I do think we will get back to the mean.

00:25:04.900 But only after wokeness is rebuked and only after probably four more years, if Trump wins

00:25:10.540 four more years of conflict, until the media returns to being the media and not the coach.

00:25:17.220 Or is totally annihilated.

00:25:19.140 I mean, one way or the other.

00:25:20.740 I mean, honestly, my own personal view is the media can't come back.

00:25:23.860 And once you've sacrificed your credibility, you can't get it back.

00:25:27.280 And sadly, I look at this and I think about this whenever I see Brian Williams over on

00:25:30.640 MSNBC, who seems like a relatively nice guy, but I don't believe anything he says.

00:25:35.440 I know he lied to me for a living.

00:25:37.020 And I don't believe Don Lemon or Chris Kwan.

00:25:39.020 I don't believe them.

00:25:39.900 I don't have reason to believe them.

00:25:42.260 I'll speak to Don, who I'm friendly with.

00:25:44.800 He's gone off the edge, right?

00:25:46.920 I mean, completely off the edge.

00:25:48.260 I'll speak as well to the fact that your podcast and Joe Rogan's podcast have exploded.

00:25:53.580 That is a fact.

00:25:54.900 So there is a demand for people with credibility who engage in honest conversations, which is

00:26:01.900 off the charts.

00:26:02.700 Talk radio is always fed off of that.

00:26:04.380 But we also have a lot more commercials than you do, right?

00:26:07.560 We drive home news, weather, sports.

00:26:10.100 We have 38 minutes per hour.

00:26:12.080 And so people now don't have to take 38 minutes an hour.

00:26:14.780 They can take 58 minutes an hour.

00:26:16.680 And they're doing that.

00:26:18.300 And I really worry about my business.

00:26:19.860 But if I was in charge of one of these networks, and they're down to 2 million or 1 million

00:26:25.060 nightly viewers, when Tucker had 5 to 7 million viewers for the Bobaleski interview, I just

00:26:34.540 have to say to the corporate management, just as I did to Jack at Dorsey at Twitter, are you

00:26:40.000 out of your minds?

00:26:40.860 You're driving away the people who pay the bill.

00:26:44.440 They don't care.

00:26:45.260 For them, it's ideological.

00:26:46.480 They really think this is a Hitler-esque moment where you're either for him or you're against

00:26:49.840 him.

00:26:50.440 And they can't understand how somebody in Iowa or Pittsburgh would vote in their own economic

00:26:56.560 interests as opposed to for what the coastal elites or Jeff Zucker, who runs CNN, thinks

00:27:02.300 is best for them.

00:27:03.200 Can I ask you, though, because I read a piece by you recently, and the quote was, America

00:27:08.840 will endure.

00:27:10.800 America will endure.

00:27:12.040 And you just talked about how we go through cycles in this country, but we are not on the

00:27:16.980 brink of civil war.

00:27:18.400 We are not at the level of violence that we saw in 66 through 68.

00:27:22.740 This isn't a revolutionary moment.

00:27:24.860 And we, either way, whatever happens on Tuesday, we're going to be fine.

00:27:30.640 I believe that, Megan.

00:27:31.880 Part of that is because you're younger than I am by a lot.

00:27:34.800 I was a young high school student when Kent State happened, and my cousin was on the campus

00:27:40.400 of Kent State.

00:27:41.120 My mom was crying in the living room, and they didn't know what had happened.

00:27:43.960 There were kids shot.

00:27:45.540 And we had to leave town at one point because of rioting.

00:27:49.380 And 67, 68, actually 66 to 68 were urban unrest, two assassinations, 70 to 71 were the

00:27:57.580 massive mobilization against the war, the Kent State stuff.

00:28:00.380 This country is so much better off fiscally, materially, socially, and online is not real.

00:28:10.120 The world that we live in is still, it's fraught with differences.

00:28:13.740 I've got old friends who want to argue with me endlessly about things that I think are not

00:28:18.220 in dispute, but it's not 1968.

00:28:21.260 We don't have an SDS.

00:28:22.580 We've got an Antifa.

00:28:24.000 SDS was much bigger, much more organized, much deadlier.

00:28:27.740 Antifa are, I mean, I just have trouble taking them seriously.

00:28:31.620 We have white right-wing militia in Michigan.

00:28:34.040 I know about them.

00:28:35.200 They've been around McVeigh.

00:28:36.660 They remain off the charts crazy and dangerous.

00:28:39.040 But we're not anywhere near 68, much less 1860.

00:28:44.400 And I think woke people overplay this danger from the right in order to obscure what has

00:28:51.140 happened in the inner city, you know, boarding up D.C. right now.

00:28:54.400 I don't know what they're doing in Manhattan, Megan, but they're boarding up D.C. in the event

00:28:58.240 that Trump wins.

00:28:59.200 That is the first time in my life.

00:29:01.660 But even if that happens, it will be a one or two day deal, not a country splitting division.

00:29:09.040 I mean, meanwhile, this entire town has voted for Joe Biden.

00:29:13.960 Everyone here in New York, except for a couple of quiet, you know, participants here and there

00:29:18.000 is getting ready to vote Democrat and totally believes that Joe Biden's going to win.

00:29:22.420 And so if there are riots, it's going to be out of shock and disgust.

00:29:26.160 And then where do we go?

00:29:27.460 You know, it's like, I don't know.

00:29:29.580 Where do we go?

00:29:30.140 Megan, I got a question for you.

00:29:31.340 What do your New Yorker friends say about Andrew Cuomo and COVID?

00:29:35.260 Every one of my Democrat friends talk about COVID and Trump blew it.

00:29:38.180 And I say he did as well as anyone in Europe has done.

00:29:40.740 He's doing about as well as anyone could.

00:29:42.340 But Cuomo, and I don't blame him.

00:29:44.980 Everybody's tried to do the best they can, but he made some terrible mistakes.

00:29:50.000 But he gets a pass.

00:29:50.420 Okay, so can I tell you?

00:29:51.560 So my best friend is Janice Dean.

00:29:53.780 She's one of my closest friends.

00:29:55.140 And she's the one who's been raising the alarm of this guy.

00:29:57.780 If it weren't for Janice Dean, I don't think most of the country would know about Andrew

00:30:01.120 Cuomo signing the order that basically consigned 6,000 nursing patients to death.

00:30:07.780 I mean, what he said was the nursing homes had to take COVID positive patients back into

00:30:11.960 them.

00:30:12.720 It's actually probably more than 6,000 seniors who died as a result of that because they

00:30:18.200 haven't counted or released any numbers from those who got very, very ill in the nursing

00:30:22.320 home after a COVID positive patient was released right next to them.

00:30:25.440 And then that secondarily ill person had to be moved to a hospital right before he died.

00:30:30.080 So the number is greater.

00:30:31.400 And it's disgusting to me to see this guy on The View and Sonny Hostin, who's hostile

00:30:36.260 to anybody who is a Republican.

00:30:37.880 But when Andrew Cuomo comes on, who actually did issue a really controversial order, is like,

00:30:43.100 can you tell me about the nursing home thing?

00:30:45.120 Because somebody says, I just, it's infuriating to me.

00:30:48.240 So that's one of my closest friends.

00:30:50.360 But can I tell you, my girlfriends that I hang out in this city with, they're in love with

00:30:55.040 him, Hugh.

00:30:55.820 They're in love with him.

00:30:57.100 They're the ones who are wearing like the Cuomo sexual t-shirts and they're buying the

00:31:03.060 whole thing.

00:31:03.800 You know, they can see how Trump did everything wrong on the pandemic, but they will give him

00:31:07.880 a total pass.

00:31:09.700 And everybody's got their ideological glasses on.

00:31:11.620 Boy, confirmation bias is a hell of a drug, isn't it?

00:31:13.680 Confirmation bias is the thing that we have to, I know exactly what Trump did wrong.

00:31:17.880 I know exactly what Cuomo did wrong because I fight confirmation bias every day and I read

00:31:23.220 broadly, but boy, a lot of people in America don't want to get off that drug.

00:31:28.060 I mean, people are already talking about if Biden wins, Andrew Cuomo is a possible AG.

00:31:32.120 Can you imagine, Hugh, if he were a Republican in a Republican state and it's signed an order

00:31:39.820 like that?

00:31:41.320 No one would be talking about his assent to a cabinet position or potentially presidential

00:31:47.440 run, which they say is his real goal.

00:31:49.060 No one would be, the Democrats would be killing him.

00:31:52.560 They'd be protesting every media appearance.

00:31:55.380 It's just, you know, yet another example of the hypocrisy.

00:31:58.600 If President Trump were to win a second term and Kristi Noem was nominated for a cabinet

00:32:02.860 and it was a Democratic Senate, they would not approve her.

00:32:06.240 They would say, you let them have that motorcycle rally.

00:32:09.420 You may not be a cabinet member.

00:32:11.860 To anyone listening, they've got to vote straight Republican for Senate because whether or not the

00:32:16.680 president wins, we cannot let the Senate be run by Chuck Schumer.

00:32:19.640 It's just a matter of simple economics and national security.

00:32:24.800 You can't-

00:32:25.140 Wait, I'm glad you brought that up because I do have to let you go.

00:32:27.980 But can you tell me, what do you predict is going to happen on Tuesday?

00:32:31.720 I think you think Trump is going to win.

00:32:33.080 But what about the Senate?

00:32:34.480 I'm feeling good.

00:32:35.220 Joni Ernst is back ahead.

00:32:36.440 I think Susan Collins is dead heat.

00:32:38.020 Martha McSally is dead heat.

00:32:40.120 Tom Tillis is a point or two behind, but Cal Cunningham cheated on not one, but I think more

00:32:44.360 than one time with his wife.

00:32:46.580 It's hard to keep up in North Carolina.

00:32:47.340 And that's a military state.

00:32:48.840 Yeah.

00:32:49.280 And Lindsay put it away.

00:32:51.120 Mitch McConnell put it away.

00:32:52.240 John Cornyn put it away.

00:32:53.280 I'm feeling very good.

00:32:54.340 And John James may yet surprise in Michigan.

00:32:57.120 We will see.

00:32:58.460 All right.

00:32:59.180 Hugh, such a pleasure.

00:33:00.280 Thank you, sir.

00:33:00.760 Can't wait to talk to you after we know what happened.

00:33:02.780 Thank you, Megan.

00:33:04.040 All right.

00:33:04.520 We'll see you soon.

00:33:05.560 Coming up in one second, we're going to be joined by Andrew Yang.

00:33:08.360 That's going to be fun, right?

00:33:09.600 You'll get the other side.

00:33:10.680 Hear what his closing argument is for Biden.

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00:34:45.760 Andrew Yang, thank you so much for being here.

00:34:48.380 Thanks for having me, Megan.

00:34:49.320 Okay.

00:34:49.600 So an entrepreneur, just for our audience, just in case they don't know, entrepreneur, author,

00:34:54.640 nonprofit founder, born.

00:34:56.440 This is the most important part, in Schenectady, New York.

00:34:59.740 That is my neck of the woods.

00:35:01.220 I grew up in Syracuse and then Albany.

00:35:03.740 Where in Schenectady did you grow up in Schenectady?

00:35:06.860 I was there until I was four years old.

00:35:08.960 My dad worked for the GE plant up there near Niskayuna.

00:35:13.780 But I spent a couple of summers there when I was 12 and 13 as well.

00:35:17.280 So I've got a real soft spot and affinity for that neck of the woods.

00:35:21.900 I was from, our town was Bethlehem in the Albany area.

00:35:25.600 That was my school, Bethlehem Central.

00:35:27.140 And it was, it was great.

00:35:28.180 It's a great part of the country to grow up in.

00:35:29.880 Good roots.

00:35:30.780 That's why you make so much sense, Andrew.

00:35:32.420 That's why when I listened to you, I'm like, yeah, okay, I get it.

00:35:35.220 I'm with you.

00:35:35.900 I feel like people from upstate New York have good heads on their shoulders.

00:35:41.180 Seriously, right?

00:35:41.840 It's like, I think they're just kind of like Midwesterners in a way where they're pretty

00:35:46.660 sensible.

00:35:47.480 They don't get too upset over nonsense.

00:35:49.940 They're not big on the outrage factor.

00:35:52.400 I don't know.

00:35:52.800 I just find there's sort of a consistent strain when I meet people in the middle of the country

00:35:56.600 and I meet people upstate, similar stuff.

00:35:59.380 Okay.

00:35:59.560 So let me get back down to business with you because it's like a day out from election

00:36:03.440 day.

00:36:04.100 By the way, are you as excited as I am?

00:36:05.660 I'm really excited.

00:36:06.540 I'm excited too, Megan.

00:36:08.300 I filed my paperwork to run in November of 2017.

00:36:12.120 So it's been three years building towards tomorrow.

00:36:17.440 So I've done several levels.

00:36:18.980 Yeah, right.

00:36:19.980 Exactly.

00:36:20.380 I mean, of course, you would have preferred it be you on that ticket, but you made quite

00:36:24.080 a run of it.

00:36:24.820 And now, of course, have endorsed Joe Biden.

00:36:27.860 You went out to Pennsylvania on Sunday at a rally in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania that day

00:36:33.720 to rally for him.

00:36:35.240 There was a Washington Post article this weekend saying the Democrats are growing a bit more

00:36:38.940 anxious about Pennsylvania, worried that they might they're worried about that that sort

00:36:44.460 of rural white vote that tends to be favorable to Donald Trump and whether there's going to

00:36:50.540 be a voter surge there.

00:36:52.320 What's your feeling on because Pennsylvania is what it's all about.

00:36:54.820 We know that.

00:36:55.660 What's your feeling on how that goes?

00:36:58.460 The numbers look good for Joe.

00:37:00.280 I will say that there were many more Trump signs than Biden signs in the areas of Pennsylvania

00:37:05.880 I drove through this weekend.

00:37:09.060 But I'm not sure that's a surprise because I was in predominantly rural areas.

00:37:15.020 I agree with you.

00:37:15.940 It's going to be neck and neck.

00:37:18.040 The last polls I saw Joe up four or five.

00:37:22.260 But that isn't an insurmountable lead if you assume that, you know, the polls always have

00:37:28.120 some margin of error and Joe Biden himself is going to be in Pennsylvania today, Monday

00:37:34.220 and then tomorrow and a bit through Ohio.

00:37:37.000 He's going to go through Pittsburgh with Lady Gaga, who actually, can I just ask you about

00:37:40.840 that?

00:37:41.000 Because I will tell you, as somebody who's more in the middle, whenever I see it's

00:37:45.020 usually the Democrats take a big celebrity to a place.

00:37:47.760 I'm like, oh, my God, who does that appeal to?

00:37:52.060 That's my own feeling.

00:37:53.120 What do you think?

00:37:53.880 I mean, it is definitely a Democratic phenomenon.

00:37:55.420 I remember Trump sort of calling it out as like, oh, look, like the Hollywood types,

00:38:01.960 you know, are on board with the Democrats.

00:38:04.820 And there is some truth to the narrative that, like, do voters get animated based on what

00:38:12.180 their favorite celebrities are doing?

00:38:14.400 I think it does excite young people who might not be as engaged politically.

00:38:19.860 I'll say also as a candidate, you're just pumped when someone wants to hang out with you

00:38:24.140 that's famous, like whatever you like.

00:38:28.640 I had a celebrity endorse me.

00:38:29.880 I was like, yeah, that's great.

00:38:31.540 So it's very much like a human nature thing if you're actually the candidate, though.

00:38:36.440 I agree with you.

00:38:37.400 Like it sends a message that frankly did not work in 2016.

00:38:43.200 You should get like I'm thinking if you're going to Pittsburgh, you get I don't know anything

00:38:46.360 about sports, but I think you get like some big famous ex Pittsburgh Steeler.

00:38:49.660 That probably would do more for him than Lady Gaga would.

00:38:52.600 But at least it's not Lena Dunham, who I never understood why she showed up at anything for

00:38:55.820 anybody who the heck was motivated by her.

00:38:57.700 OK, sorry.

00:38:58.260 That's my own personal view.

00:38:59.900 That's not Andrew Yang talking.

00:39:01.520 All right.

00:39:01.740 Let me talk to you about because we've been talking on this show the past, you know,

00:39:04.580 only been on the air for a month or so.

00:39:07.180 Cancel culture, a lot of cancel culture, which I don't like.

00:39:10.120 And I think a lot of people don't like even I hear from a lot of folks on the center

00:39:14.440 left who listen to this podcast and they don't like it either.

00:39:17.900 It's not it's not a liberal thing.

00:39:19.680 It's a it's a, quote, leftist thing, which is a different kind of group.

00:39:23.780 And I think it does have a lot of people motivated for Trump who might not otherwise vote for

00:39:28.180 Trump.

00:39:29.080 Why do you think people who are getting ready to pull the lever for Trump because they

00:39:33.460 don't like cancel culture and they don't like sort of the woke scolds?

00:39:37.380 Why do you think they should vote for Joe Biden instead?

00:39:40.340 I think many Americans cancel culture is excessive.

00:39:44.160 And I'd actually count Joe Biden as among that number.

00:39:47.520 If you look at his campaign, he has not been either messaging or acting in a way that is

00:39:55.860 consistent with a culture of trying to judge someone credibly, harshly or negatively based

00:40:01.900 upon a particular statement.

00:40:04.240 Joe actually is very much cut from the opposite cloth where he wants to bring people together.

00:40:08.180 He has a naturally empathetic manner.

00:40:11.200 And so if you're anti cancel culture, I still think that Joe Biden has your back.

00:40:17.840 And I understand the antipathy towards that attitude because I think cancel culture is

00:40:23.360 productive or positive.

00:40:24.900 But what about the people around him?

00:40:26.660 Right.

00:40:26.840 Like Kamala Harris seems more pro cancel culture than than Biden does.

00:40:31.640 And I think that's the concern is that he's going to get in there and you're going to get

00:40:35.020 people who are really loud on this on this subject trying to push him to to support it.

00:40:42.200 And that Democrats are just going to feel like they have free reign and there's no longer

00:40:45.160 a warrior in this case currently in the Oval Office standing up against what tend to be

00:40:50.980 bullies, these sort of woke bullies who want to cancel people out of their jobs and their

00:40:55.180 friendships if they say the wrong thing, quote, quote, unquote, wrong.

00:40:59.280 You know, it's fun, Megan, is that I think Joe's been kind of swimming against that current

00:41:04.440 the entire time and he won.

00:41:06.400 You know, he defeated it like there were other candidates in the field who had a different

00:41:11.320 stance on this.

00:41:12.660 And Joe was very consistent.

00:41:15.460 He was a true leader.

00:41:16.840 He said, look, this is what I think is right.

00:41:18.840 I don't expect that to change when he's in office.

00:41:21.220 I think he said on the debate stage with Donald Trump, it's like, look, you're running against

00:41:24.800 me.

00:41:25.660 You're running against Joe Biden.

00:41:26.920 And I think that'll be true when he's in power as well.

00:41:31.460 All right.

00:41:32.080 Let me throw something else at you, because I want your Democratic take on this.

00:41:36.260 One of the stories that we've been covering is what's what's been happening in schools,

00:41:39.920 public schools across this country.

00:41:41.480 We talked recently about California public schools where not only will they not tell you

00:41:48.240 their policy, the school policy is not to tell you if your child announces to the school

00:41:52.500 that he's trans or she's trans.

00:41:55.280 They won't tell the parent.

00:41:56.320 But it's the policy not to.

00:41:58.100 And then they'll also let the child leave school grounds during the day to get medication,

00:42:03.060 you know, like testosterone and transitioning hormones without telling the parent.

00:42:07.840 And at the same time, in the sex ed out in California public schools, they're getting

00:42:12.100 extremely graphic, extremely graphic with 10 year olds, fifth graders.

00:42:16.760 So graphic.

00:42:17.600 I don't want to repeat it here because it's just too R rated.

00:42:21.280 And I think a lot of moms are against that, very much against all of that.

00:42:27.920 You know, they don't think their parents rights end at the schoolhouse door and they don't.

00:42:32.500 And they see that as a Democrat thing, that that is a liberal agenda.

00:42:35.980 And while they might consider themselves progressive, they might vote against that.

00:42:41.960 So what do you say to those folks?

00:42:43.700 I think that parents should have a lot of say in the activities and operations of their school

00:42:50.340 district.

00:42:50.820 My wife's on the she's the co-president of the PTA.

00:42:53.820 I'll give you a sense of it.

00:42:55.340 And so it's hard for me to imagine a circumstance where something was happening with my child

00:42:59.320 in the school where I was not privy to it.

00:43:02.220 Or at a minimum, the majority of members of the community were somehow on board.

00:43:05.960 The policies you're describing sound very, very aberrant or anomalous, at least to me.

00:43:13.580 And so if your parents, the vast majority of parents would agree with you, Megan, I certainly

00:43:18.160 would, where you think that parents should have like a high degree of visibility into

00:43:23.620 what's going on with our kids.

00:43:25.800 I'm sure that's the case in virtually every school district around the country.

00:43:30.000 And I certainly wouldn't want to paint like a party.

00:43:34.120 Let's call it my party with like the very, very, to me, aberrant example of policies in

00:43:42.140 a number of places, because I think that's actually what we have to fight against is

00:43:46.860 generalizing to a very, very large group based upon something that's happening in one pocket.

00:43:54.780 I think that's one of the traps that we're falling into.

00:43:58.600 Well, what about I mean, the two items I mentioned are definitely happening in California and in

00:44:03.900 New York, too, where I live.

00:44:05.120 I can speak to that.

00:44:06.000 But these are two very, very liberal states.

00:44:07.800 So it's possible they've been co-opted by that, quote unquote, left, capitalized left

00:44:12.640 more so, certainly than flyover country.

00:44:14.920 But what about, you know, we've seen a lot on race in this country, race relations.

00:44:19.920 President Trump pulled the critical race theory instructions at the federal level where,

00:44:27.000 you know, if you want to phrase it as pro-diversity and anti-bias, it sounds like one thing.

00:44:33.100 But what was actually happening is they were gathering groups of colleagues together and

00:44:37.740 the white people were being told that they were white supremacists as a result of their

00:44:41.760 pigmentation and were told to just sit quietly while somebody told them about that and weren't

00:44:47.920 allowed to respond.

00:44:49.580 And some people were in tears.

00:44:51.320 I mean, to me, this sounds like something designed to create racism where it might not

00:44:56.940 otherwise exist.

00:44:57.740 Two colleagues getting along just fine.

00:44:59.220 And next thing you know, one's being told he's horrible because of an immutable characteristic.

00:45:04.140 And that's another thing Trump fought against.

00:45:05.720 And I think folks who don't like cancel culture are like, that's going to get re-implemented.

00:45:10.540 Joe Biden gets in there.

00:45:11.680 Not going to have somebody standing up for people who are being shamed for their immutable

00:45:15.380 characteristics.

00:45:16.740 I've been an entrepreneur for a number of years.

00:45:18.900 One of my companies was bought by a big company that had a bunch of trainings, shall we say.

00:45:24.800 So I certainly haven't been through a government version, but I've been through a large corporate

00:45:29.180 version.

00:45:30.120 And I think a lot of boils down to the substance and nature of any kind of training you get.

00:45:36.960 And I think a lot of us, Megan, I mean, you've been part of Corporate America.

00:45:40.320 I think we've all sat through trainings where you're like, wow, this might have made sense

00:45:43.800 for someone in the HR suite.

00:45:46.420 But, you know, I'm not sure if this is what we need.

00:45:52.380 Some trainings can be done in a way that actually adds value, like some very much less so.

00:45:58.860 So I legitimately, you'd have to actually dig into what the substance was.

00:46:02.620 If you say, like, is there some really unproductive training being run somewhere in the federal

00:46:07.580 government?

00:46:08.300 I'd say almost certainly yes.

00:46:10.740 So I think that through a version of it, you know, in corporate America, but that should

00:46:16.920 be the mission.

00:46:17.620 It's like, OK, like, do we think that this training has some kind of positive goal?

00:46:23.680 And then how do you actually have it meet that goal?

00:46:26.200 And you and I have been part of organizations where the execution has left a lot to be desired.

00:46:31.140 So that that should be the focus is like, how do you actually deliver on what the intention

00:46:35.800 is?

00:46:36.920 Yeah.

00:46:37.100 And is it is it doing more harm than good?

00:46:38.920 Why aren't you the nominee?

00:46:40.740 There are a whole number of reasons, Megan.

00:46:45.880 I mean, honestly, I listened to you throughout the primaries.

00:46:48.300 You're so reasonable.

00:46:49.520 You just seem like somebody you do seem like a uniter and you're young and you're entrepreneurial

00:46:53.620 and you think outside the box.

00:46:55.140 Sorry to use that cliche.

00:46:57.020 But I mean, what do you think?

00:46:58.940 Why why do you think Joe Biden wound up in there and not Andrew Yang?

00:47:03.200 Well, we certainly were grateful to have gotten as far as we did and disappointed that we didn't

00:47:08.080 win.

00:47:08.400 And for me, I think I was a little bit new.

00:47:13.820 You know, I think a lot of primary voters liked me and like what they heard.

00:47:19.660 I actually I'll tell you this, Megan.

00:47:20.900 I'm not sure how many times people have even told this.

00:47:23.300 So when I was campaigning in Iowa and New Hampshire, which I did a great deal, a number of people

00:47:30.120 would come up to me after an event and put their hand on my arm and say, I want you to

00:47:37.620 be part of the cabinet or like I want you to run again.

00:47:41.800 And when you were the candidate, in my case, you're like, oh, thank you.

00:47:46.640 You're grateful.

00:47:47.180 But on the other hand, like that's not what I'm running for.

00:47:49.620 I'm running to be the nominee right now.

00:47:51.760 So this isn't quite a compliment.

00:47:53.960 But but that was one of the messages I got while I was running was that people were excited

00:48:01.060 about me, but there was a real massive priority and you can't blame them.

00:48:06.120 There was a real massive priority on beating Trump.

00:48:08.700 It was like the number one criteria for primary voters in the Democratic side.

00:48:13.900 And they were casting him out.

00:48:15.340 Who's going to be Trump?

00:48:16.140 Who's going to be Trump?

00:48:16.880 And they decided Joe Biden.

00:48:18.520 I think that many of them were nervous about putting Andrew Yang up against Trump because

00:48:24.380 I seemed so new on the scene, but new no more, just in case it goes south for Biden this time

00:48:31.020 around.

00:48:31.560 I want to ask you about a couple of other policy issues with Biden, OK?

00:48:35.480 He's going to raise taxes on the wealthy.

00:48:37.660 Top earners are going to see a 22 percent reduction in their after tax earnings.

00:48:41.560 He's going to raise taxes, they say, by at least a couple trillion bucks on businesses and

00:48:46.560 high income earners.

00:48:47.640 The top corporate income tax is going to go from 21 to 28.

00:48:50.800 Top federal income tax for individuals is going to go from 37 to 39.

00:48:54.380 36.

00:48:55.600 I know most people are like, well, screw them.

00:48:57.700 They're rich.

00:48:58.100 I don't care.

00:48:58.780 I mean, trust me, when I didn't have money, that's how I felt.

00:49:01.160 I'm like, make them pay.

00:49:02.340 I don't want to pay anything more.

00:49:03.520 I don't know.

00:49:03.780 I have to watch every dollar.

00:49:05.860 But now that I know a bunch of business owners, I realize that the more they pay,

00:49:11.500 the less people they tend to employ.

00:49:14.100 And it has a trickle down effect in a way that is not always helpful when you hike up their

00:49:18.320 taxes and the taxes of the wealthy earners.

00:49:21.440 And to folks who are concerned about that, what say you?

00:49:25.860 When I was running, again, I was always harping on the fact that companies like Amazon and

00:49:32.160 Netflix paid nothing in taxes.

00:49:33.920 I thought that was something that everyone would see as inappropriate.

00:49:37.940 I mean, Amazon now is, I think, somewhere like a $1 to $2 trillion company.

00:49:43.240 And the fact that they paid zero on federal taxes is just flat out wrong.

00:49:48.300 Netflix, similar.

00:49:49.760 Starbucks, before the hard times, the same boat.

00:49:52.680 Like a lot of these companies that have vast international operations.

00:49:55.420 I just saw a study that said that the tech companies, mainly American, have $420 billion

00:50:03.040 parked overseas because they don't want to have to pay taxes on it.

00:50:07.120 I think there's such obvious problems with our current tax regime.

00:50:11.680 And one of the traps we all get into, and this certainly includes the Democrats, is we look

00:50:16.680 around and say, OK, you know what my fix is?

00:50:18.520 My fix is ratcheting up tax rates on the folks who are paying taxes rather than looking around

00:50:24.080 at saying, how does it make sense that our biggest companies pay zero in taxes?

00:50:27.900 Which is one reason why I proposed value-added tax, which is used in literally every other

00:50:33.320 developed country except for ours.

00:50:35.000 And you have to ask yourself, why is it that we've been the only holdout?

00:50:40.040 And I suspect it's because the companies have a lot of influence over our government and they

00:50:46.000 realize that if they can keep playing the international tax shell game, then they win.

00:50:54.080 I've been a small business owner.

00:50:56.140 We paid about 50% of taxes.

00:50:58.780 And I remember going to my accountant saying, what the heck is going on?

00:51:02.500 I was based in New York City, too.

00:51:04.300 That's why-

00:51:04.820 Yeah, that's me right now.

00:51:05.900 I'm in that same boat.

00:51:07.880 Yeah, yeah.

00:51:08.260 If you live in New York City and you have a business, who's an LLC based in New York

00:51:12.340 City?

00:51:12.780 It was literally like 49.4% or something like that.

00:51:16.060 Yep.

00:51:16.400 And that's going to strike people as like garishly high in most of the country.

00:51:23.320 It was like a New York City thing.

00:51:25.320 We still pay those taxes and still headquartered in New York City because we love New York and

00:51:31.580 had some real advantages.

00:51:33.380 I would differentiate between folks who, if they got to keep more of their money, they

00:51:40.900 would genuinely invest it and hire more people, which includes many, many small business owners

00:51:45.400 like I was.

00:51:46.600 If you're an LLC and you're a private company, you very often qualify for very high tax rates

00:51:51.880 very quickly.

00:51:52.900 But those enterprises are very different than the biggest multinationals and the big corporations.

00:51:59.700 And the big corporations are the ones who got to play those tax games.

00:52:02.620 When I was running my private business, I was I went to my account and I was like, am

00:52:06.540 I a schmuck?

00:52:08.160 Totally.

00:52:09.400 I think everyone asks themselves that when April 15th rolls around.

00:52:13.760 And certainly when they saw the New York Times reporting on Trump's taxes, I am a schmuck.

00:52:17.460 There's 100% chance I am.

00:52:19.120 Why did I pay anything?

00:52:20.860 Why don't I become a real estate baron?

00:52:23.060 I think all of us are thinking about how we could buy real estate and write off all of

00:52:26.000 our income.

00:52:26.760 But, you know, most of us are W2 employees.

00:52:28.780 I certainly was during all my time, you know, on the air with Fox and NBC and ABC, and I

00:52:33.960 paid 50% of taxes.

00:52:35.320 50% of my every paycheck I ever got went to taxes.

00:52:37.520 And I have to say, it's irritating.

00:52:40.420 It's irritating to see like how people can game the system.

00:52:43.620 But I also say as an individual to raise my taxes another whatever percent that pisses

00:52:49.380 me off, too.

00:52:49.900 It's like how much is too much, right?

00:52:51.760 Like 50% of my money, like I don't want Mayor de Blasio having my cash or Andrew Cuomo or

00:52:58.060 Joe Biden or Donald Trump.

00:52:59.400 I don't trust them.

00:53:00.300 I trust myself to manage my own money.

00:53:02.400 But, you know, it's gotten out of control.

00:53:03.940 So when I see like taxes are going up again, it worries me.

00:53:08.080 It also worries me because Trump lowered them and the economy started booming.

00:53:11.620 There are a couple of principles I would push on here that I think most people can agree

00:53:15.580 with.

00:53:15.800 It's like if you and I are paying 50%, we look up and we see the real estate bearer and

00:53:20.180 the tech nationals paying literally zero close to it, then it makes you rightfully indignant.

00:53:30.620 You're like, look, if I'm going to be a schmuck, you should be a schmuck, too, considering that

00:53:34.200 you're making a whole lot more than I am.

00:53:37.920 So that's number one.

00:53:39.140 And number two is I think we have a rightful concern around the efficiency of resources

00:53:46.680 that are heading into government.

00:53:48.100 It's one reason why I championed universal basic income because people could then see

00:53:52.780 it's like, well, look, this money is literally going into my own hands and the hands of the

00:53:56.760 people around me, going right back into the economy, supporting grocery stores and garages

00:54:02.240 and local leagues and the rest of it.

00:54:05.180 Because right now there's a legitimate concern that when we pay more in taxes, the money disappears

00:54:11.660 into the bowels of government and we're not sure what is going on.

00:54:16.700 So one of the things I championed when I was running, number one, I would rebrand tax day

00:54:22.700 into revenue day because if you were a business that generated hundreds of billions of dollars

00:54:28.780 on a single day, you would be celebrating.

00:54:31.140 You'd be making your customers.

00:54:32.320 You'd be doing all these things to say, you'd be doing things to make it easy.

00:54:35.180 You would auto fill out the taxes for the vast majority of Americans.

00:54:38.700 It's actually very predictable.

00:54:40.540 How am I going to owe based upon past filings and publicly available earnings and the rest

00:54:45.900 of it?

00:54:46.680 And then I would let you choose where to send the last 1% of your taxes.

00:54:50.060 You choose military, forestry, like whatever you want.

00:54:54.140 And then you'd have a thank you message from that department being like, well, thank you for

00:54:57.880 funding us.

00:54:58.620 And here's the work we do.

00:54:59.580 And we really appreciate it.

00:55:00.540 And pictures of some government employee, not pictures, videos, you know.

00:55:04.140 Um, so there's like a real need to try and recast what's going on, um, with our tax system,

00:55:10.720 because right now we all just find it to be onerous and we feel like someone else is pulling

00:55:14.280 a fast one and we're not.

00:55:15.820 And, and it's miserable.

00:55:17.800 Well, I, I'll tell you what, I'm, I'm done employing people in small, I'm going to buy

00:55:22.080 some sort of a hotel.

00:55:23.180 I'm going to do whatever.

00:55:25.340 That is the way forward to Andrew.

00:55:27.040 Keep employing this whole business post segment.

00:55:28.380 I'm sure you have a great team around you the same way I do where, you know, they take

00:55:32.880 care of us.

00:55:34.520 I'm only joking, but it, I think the whole tax thing is so irritating for every American.

00:55:38.920 It's like, I don't know what the solution is, but I do generally believe in lower taxes.

00:55:43.120 Um, and I don't know that we're going to get them.

00:55:45.300 We'll see.

00:55:45.720 Okay.

00:55:46.160 Listen, I have to ask you, cause I hear you talking about your policies and what Andrew

00:55:49.860 Yang would have done.

00:55:50.620 And I do think like, okay, yes, I, I like, I like a lot of this.

00:55:54.680 Um, you're not on the ballot.

00:55:56.440 So if Biden wins, I know that you've been approached about a possible cabinet position, or at least

00:56:03.220 there's been some discussions.

00:56:04.800 So which might that be?

00:56:07.080 And is there any chance, cause I've heard your name also thrown around as a possible candidate

00:56:11.640 for the mayor of New York city.

00:56:14.480 So can you answer those two questions?

00:56:16.400 Well, they are related Megan.

00:56:17.860 And, uh, um, I've been focused on trying to help Joe and Kamala win.

00:56:22.820 I think we will win.

00:56:24.260 Um, and then if there's an opportunity for me to address some of the problems I ran on

00:56:30.080 as part of the Biden administration, I would love that opportunity.

00:56:33.960 Uh, and what that might look like specifically.

00:56:36.660 I think that our government has been years and years behind the curve on technology issues

00:56:42.100 and it's gone from inconvenient to disastrous over time where you have Facebook now selling

00:56:48.480 and reselling data for tens of billions of dollars a year.

00:56:51.620 And we're not seeing a dime and no one really knows what's going on.

00:56:54.320 Uh, it's bad for our democracy.

00:56:55.680 It's bad for our mental health.

00:56:57.220 Uh, if you have teenage girls in particular, like seeing spikes and anxiety and depression,

00:57:02.020 uh, and anti-sociability, it's, uh, like we, we've essentially run a real-time experiment

00:57:08.600 on our kids.

00:57:09.500 Uh, and because our government has been out to lunch.

00:57:12.360 Um, so I, I've proposed some kind of technology secretary facing role, um, to try to bring

00:57:21.260 to heal or bring under control, uh, some of these tech companies that have run amok.

00:57:26.240 And the problem is that the current legal frameworks we use aren't working where you have antitrust,

00:57:32.120 uh, antitrust doesn't solve anything I just described really, you know, where, uh, where

00:57:38.320 Facebook, uh, even if they were to divest themselves of, uh, Instagram and the rest of it, like you'd

00:57:43.280 still have the, some of the same problems just split up among different operators.

00:57:47.200 Um, so we have to take a different approach towards some of these tech companies that I'd

00:57:51.400 like to help.

00:57:52.220 Um, so those are the things I, I've, uh, uh, I've expressed an interest in working on.

00:57:58.960 So I'll tell you what, if you're interested in tech, the iron's never been hotter, right?

00:58:02.800 Because the Republicans are so ticked off at Facebook and Twitter for what they did on

00:58:06.560 that Hunter Biden story.

00:58:08.040 And I'm, I mean, I'm sure you're not loving that story because you're supporting Biden,

00:58:11.640 but what did you think of that?

00:58:13.100 Cause I tell you as somebody who, I don't have a dog in this hunt, but I found that incredible

00:58:17.940 that they just shut, shut down the story.

00:58:20.100 Wouldn't allow the New York post back on Twitter.

00:58:21.820 Wouldn't let them circulate it.

00:58:23.160 Shut down everybody from forwarding on the link like big brother.

00:58:26.420 Like they really were editor in chief of the country.

00:58:30.440 And it was shocking to me.

00:58:31.860 I think it really, it was, I think it's going to have a lot of fallout over the years to come.

00:58:35.740 I saw something very similar, uh, like in real time, you know, like this week on, um, Google

00:58:42.720 search results for something called prop 24, which is a voter ballot initiative in California

00:58:48.700 that would create new data and privacy rights for California.

00:58:51.900 It's a very big deal.

00:58:52.700 Tech companies don't like it.

00:58:53.820 And if you were to run a Google search on it in California, it showed you negative results.

00:58:59.200 So then you scratch your check and like, wow, like that, that could be a very, very big

00:59:04.480 deal.

00:59:05.280 Uh, what, what you're seeing, um, is that Twitter, Facebook, Google have essentially

00:59:11.120 become our public information commons.

00:59:14.100 Uh, and they're making all sorts of content moderation decisions.

00:59:19.080 Most of them, you, you never hear about Megan.

00:59:21.400 And a lot of them have to do with, uh, trying to stamp it out incitements to violence, threats,

00:59:27.300 like things that none of us really like, you know, want to, want our kids just exposed to

00:59:32.260 when they, when they go on these platforms, they're doing that all the time.

00:59:35.880 Um, and then other decisions are bleeding into a room where someone could get very, very angry

00:59:41.880 and upset because it seems, uh, one-sided or political.

00:59:45.180 Uh, and so my, my proposition is that it doesn't make sense to have these private companies making

00:59:53.180 these kinds of decisions on everyone's behalf.

00:59:56.820 Uh, that at some point it behooves us to have a more systematic regulatory approach, uh, to

01:00:04.360 say, look, you guys are now the de facto public commons.

01:00:07.180 Uh, we got here through, you know, this process where, uh, you know, a lot of us didn't see

01:00:13.100 it coming or, you know, like Congress was asleep at the switch, but we're here now.

01:00:17.220 Um, so here's what we need to do.

01:00:18.620 Uh, and the tech companies actually, I'm going to argue, need some help on this because if you're

01:00:24.360 a private company having to make thousands of line drawing content moderation decisions,

01:00:30.700 you're going to screw up clearly, you know?

01:00:33.180 And so they, they should look up.

01:00:35.140 It's dangerous to put that kind of control in government's hands too.

01:00:37.780 Like, I don't necessarily love that Mark Zuckerberg's controlling what I can and cannot see,

01:00:41.840 but I don't, with all due respect, want you to control it either.

01:00:44.040 Well, I, I'm not saying like, uh, you know, any one entity, what I propose is that you get

01:00:50.500 together, uh, NGOs, nonprofits, media, tech companies, and government, um, and you build

01:00:59.860 a process that everyone has like a degree of transparency into that everyone can agree

01:01:05.040 on.

01:01:05.560 Everyone can see how the decisions get made.

01:01:08.020 Um, but I think letting the tech companies decide unilaterally is not the right approach.

01:01:13.320 Uh, and if you say, look, I don't want some government bureaucrat making every decision,

01:01:17.500 like, don't disagree, but someone has to make a decision.

01:01:20.560 Um, and it should be a greater collective that's representative of different interests

01:01:26.420 than simply someone in Facebook HQ, uh, or let's say an individual sitting in an office

01:01:33.080 building in DC.

01:01:34.280 Okay.

01:01:34.780 Now, if, if things don't go Joe Biden's way on Tuesday, what are you thinking about Gracie

01:01:39.940 Manchin on the Upper East Side of New York city?

01:01:42.100 Does it look good to you?

01:01:43.140 Is that a place you could picture yourself?

01:01:44.860 Do you, is there any chance you actually do run for mayor here?

01:01:48.400 Uh, well, I, what I would suggest, Megan, is that, um, I want to solve the biggest problems

01:01:53.240 that I can find and run for office.

01:01:55.640 Um, another time would actually be, I think a lot easier than the first time.

01:02:00.800 So you're likely to see Andrew Yang's name on a ballot, um, somewhere at some point in

01:02:05.300 the future.

01:02:05.760 But, but right now I am focused on helping Joe and Kamala win.

01:02:08.920 I don't want to, uh, think about, um, you know, what's going to happen if for some reason,

01:02:13.180 uh, I'm wrong on that score.

01:02:15.140 Well, we are a hot mess in New York city and there, you're, you seem great, but anything

01:02:20.160 would be a step up.

01:02:21.300 Anything that could be your whole platform, not de Blasio.

01:02:25.760 He's done as of next year, but we are all sick of him.

01:02:29.260 I guess virtually anyone's going to benefit from, from being able to say I'm not, I'm not

01:02:33.620 de Blasio.

01:02:34.300 Totally.

01:02:35.680 Thank you for getting it.

01:02:36.780 Okay.

01:02:37.020 So I got, I know I have to let you go, but I want to ask you your predictions for election

01:02:41.320 day and in terms of electoral college numbers and also the Senate.

01:02:45.800 Uh, wow.

01:02:46.420 Electoral college.

01:02:47.040 I haven't done the scoreboard thing, Megan.

01:02:49.200 Uh, I would say, I think it's going to be a significant victory for Joe.

01:02:54.080 I don't think it's going to be a nail biter down to the wire in terms of electoral votes.

01:02:57.680 I think he wins a significant number of the swing states, um, including at least one or

01:03:05.100 two states that Trump won.

01:03:07.200 Um, so I feel good about it, not being a nail biter.

01:03:11.200 Uh, the Senate, it's going to be close, but I think the Democrats take a slight priority.

01:03:14.820 I think that, um, Susan Collins in Maine is very vulnerable.

01:03:19.280 I think John Hickenlooper beats Cory Gardner.

01:03:21.620 Um, and then there are a bunch of very competitive races, um, that look like they're tilting Republican

01:03:29.320 anew.

01:03:30.540 Um, but I think the Democrats take a slight majority.

01:03:33.280 Do you think if Joe Biden wins, he's going to pack the Supreme court?

01:03:36.100 I was expressed disinterest in that approach.

01:03:39.040 I personally, Megan, you might disagree with me on this.

01:03:41.280 I am for modernization of the Supreme court.

01:03:43.660 I think lifetime appointments make no sense.

01:03:45.800 Uh, I think we should have 18 year terms and have regular people cycling on and off, get,

01:03:51.420 um, two, um, appointments per four year term and just get a predictable consequence of

01:03:57.860 winning or losing a presidential election.

01:03:59.300 That's not based upon someone expiring, uh, or not expiring.

01:04:02.960 Uh, but that's my position and not Joe's, uh, Joe doesn't seem very interested in packing

01:04:07.760 the court.

01:04:08.580 Um, though, you know, we'll, we'll have to see if he winds up in that seat.

01:04:12.980 All right.

01:04:13.120 Last question.

01:04:13.740 I'll let you go.

01:04:14.280 I know there are a lot of people out there are scared of president Trump and the thoughts

01:04:18.440 of him being reelected.

01:04:19.980 I mean, I've heard them.

01:04:21.120 I've heard the Democrats who are really afraid of him and his agenda.

01:04:24.880 And there are Republicans who are afraid of Joe Biden too.

01:04:28.220 You know, they, they're afraid of what's going to happen to our country.

01:04:31.120 Um, and, and our, the way we treat one another, the way we judge one another, uh, the way we're

01:04:36.000 going to be governed and who's, who's really going to be calling the shots.

01:04:39.780 So I'll ask you to speak to the latter group, since you're a Democrat, what to those people

01:04:43.300 who are afraid of him to the country, surrendering, if you will, to the, the nastiest bullies

01:04:49.220 on the far left who tell everybody, this is how you have to speak.

01:04:52.160 And this is how you have to think.

01:04:53.260 And this is how you have to be.

01:04:54.900 If you want to have your job and your friends and your stay in school and the university

01:04:58.620 of your choice.

01:04:59.320 And that that's, that Joe Biden as president is essentially a green light for that, not

01:05:04.300 him personally, but just Democrat rule in the house, in the Senate, in the white house.

01:05:09.340 What do you say?

01:05:10.820 I'd say that Joe Biden will be a president for everyone.

01:05:13.960 Uh, he has zero interest in hitting Americans against each other.

01:05:18.300 Uh, if anything, he wants to be a fire.

01:05:20.700 And that includes, I believe, trying to, uh, bring under control, any tendency to castigate

01:05:28.300 and, uh, villainize, uh, any group of people, whether they agree with him politically or not.

01:05:36.620 Um, the challenge you're describing, Megan, I'm going to characterize as depolarization.

01:05:41.520 And we can sense that our country is more divided than ever, uh, that the political stressors

01:05:47.940 are nearly unprecedented.

01:05:50.740 We need to bring our collective temperature down.

01:05:53.180 And I'm going to suggest that Joe Biden is a really nice wet blanket where, uh, where

01:06:01.200 if, if there's going to be anyone that gets, uh, us to cool, cool off, uh, it's Joe.

01:06:07.300 He, you know, he's, he is what he seems to be.

01:06:10.280 I've spent time with him offstage in person.

01:06:12.900 I think you probably have too, given, uh, you know, your, um, your, your career in journalism

01:06:18.320 and you get a sense that, you know, he actually is what he seems to be.

01:06:21.780 Um, I think he's going to end up with a leadership team that reflects his abilities.

01:06:27.520 Uh, and he's genuinely is a unifier.

01:06:30.100 I know a lot of politicians talk about that, but, um, that really is Joe's MO.

01:06:34.640 Andrew Yang.

01:06:35.100 Thank you so much.

01:06:36.180 It's great talking to you.

01:06:37.640 You too, Megan.

01:06:38.520 And a big day tomorrow, uh, whoever wins, let's make sure everyone votes and that, uh,

01:06:43.580 America stays together.

01:06:45.020 I think we should all be able to agree on that.

01:06:47.120 Absolutely.

01:06:47.780 Hope you come back.

01:06:48.460 Great to talk to you.

01:06:49.320 Great talking to you too.

01:06:50.400 All the best.

01:06:51.280 So interesting, isn't he?

01:06:52.480 It's like just a, a, a very reasonable perspective, whether you're a Democrat or you're a Republican.

01:06:56.920 I love talking to people who make sense, who aren't crazy left or crazy right.

01:07:01.360 And, uh, he's emerged as a star as in terms of being that way.

01:07:05.700 So that guy's got a big history in, or a big future, I should say in politics.

01:07:09.800 And we need more rational people in that arena.

01:07:12.660 So good for him.

01:07:14.180 Um, in a minute, we're going to be having Robert Cahaly.

01:07:17.180 He's the pollster for Trafalgar.

01:07:20.000 You know, that's the one outlet that has been saying Trump is going to win this race and

01:07:23.500 has been putting him, uh, in the, in the lead in all these critical swing States for

01:07:28.160 a long, long while now.

01:07:29.100 And I'll ask him whether he stands by that now, but first I want to talk to you about

01:07:33.140 home title lock.

01:07:35.000 I got a crash course in home title theft and listen, you need to pray.

01:07:39.920 This never happens to you.

01:07:41.000 This is a bad crime that can ruin you financially.

01:07:43.280 And it's one, unlike getting mugged on the street, you don't even know when it's happening

01:07:47.080 to you.

01:07:48.040 Here's how easy it is.

01:07:49.380 The legal title to all of our homes, they're, they're digitized and they're kept on government

01:07:54.100 and business servers and up in the cloud where they can be hacked too easily.

01:07:59.640 These cyber thieves who are getting very sophisticated, they'll find your home's title.

01:08:04.420 And then one of these bad guys will forge your signature on a quick claim deed stating that

01:08:09.680 you sold your home to him.

01:08:11.060 It's his now done.

01:08:12.160 Then he'll take out loans against your home until all of your equity is gone, leaving

01:08:17.500 you in debt up to your eyeballs.

01:08:19.380 You won't even know until the collection calls start pouring in and you're like, huh?

01:08:22.860 Who?

01:08:23.220 No.

01:08:23.540 And they're like, oh yes.

01:08:24.560 Oh yes.

01:08:25.440 You will not be protected by insurance, by your bank or by any of the common identity

01:08:29.740 theft programs.

01:08:30.620 And that is where home title lock comes in.

01:08:33.500 Home title lock will put a barrier around your home's title.

01:08:36.760 The instant they detect tampering, they will help shut it down cold.

01:08:40.340 So go to home title lock.com, register your address to see if you're already a victim.

01:08:45.800 Oh, and then use code radio for 30 free days of protection.

01:08:50.300 That's code radio at home title lock.com.

01:08:54.000 Okay, now it's time to bring you a feature we call sound up here on the Megyn Kelly show.

01:08:59.080 And this is where we play you soundbite that made some news or that we found kind of interesting.

01:09:03.380 And this week it is about a man named Don Lemon, who you heard me talk about a bit with Hugh

01:09:09.740 Hewitt, who once again has decided to use his national platform to say awful things about

01:09:15.980 Republicans because that's who he is.

01:09:17.660 But here's the latest offering and then we'll talk about it on the opposite side.

01:09:21.340 Listen, I have many people who I love in my life and I come from a red state.

01:09:26.120 I've lived in several red states.

01:09:28.200 There are a lot of friends who I had to really get rid of because they are so nonsensical

01:09:33.200 when it comes to this issue.

01:09:35.120 They have the whole every single talking point that they hear on state TV and that they hear

01:09:39.500 from this president.

01:09:40.260 They repeat it and they are blinded by it.

01:09:43.500 I had to get rid of them because they are too far gone.

01:09:47.020 I try and I try and I try.

01:09:48.900 They'll say something really stupid and then I'll show them the science and I'll give them

01:09:52.400 the information and they still repeat those talking points.

01:09:55.560 Sometimes you just have to let them go.

01:09:56.840 I think that they have to hit rock bottom like an addict, right?

01:10:00.680 And they have to want to get help.

01:10:02.220 They have to want to know the truth.

01:10:03.520 They have to want to live in reality.

01:10:04.840 They have to want to be responsible, not only for other people's lives, but for their lives.

01:10:08.900 So you know what?

01:10:10.080 I have had it so sad and I don't know if after this I will ever be able to go back and be

01:10:15.180 friends with those people because at a certain point you just say they're too far gone and

01:10:20.200 I got to let them go.

01:10:21.200 That is what we are saying about you, Don.

01:10:23.040 You are too far gone to be calling yourself a fair and objective newscaster, which you clearly

01:10:26.900 are not.

01:10:28.460 This guy, he's clearly talking about COVID.

01:10:31.540 At least that's how it sounds.

01:10:33.100 Not that that makes it any better because if you have a different view on COVID and how to

01:10:36.680 handle all these restrictions than Don does, you're a bad person.

01:10:40.720 You're too far gone to be his friend.

01:10:42.880 Whereupon absolutely none of Don Lemon's friends cried a single tear.

01:10:48.860 This guy, has there ever been anyone more judgmental in news or in friendship as it turns

01:10:56.360 out?

01:10:56.580 This is the same guy who hosted that segment you remember with Rick Wilson and another commentator

01:11:02.120 where they were mocking Trump supporters as uneducated and illiterate and they were calling

01:11:09.760 them illiterate rubes, illiterate rubes.

01:11:13.460 And Don Lemon yucked it up.

01:11:14.780 He thought that was so funny how dumb anyone who could support President Trump was.

01:11:20.000 And that one, he later tried to come out and say, oh, I didn't I didn't understand what

01:11:23.580 the joke was.

01:11:24.160 I was confused.

01:11:25.820 Was he confused when he came out and said Donald Trump supporters must have cognitive dissonance

01:11:29.760 to support such a bad person?

01:11:31.280 That's a quote that his supporters, quote, like shiny objects.

01:11:34.980 They like the racism.

01:11:36.980 They like the misogyny.

01:11:39.180 This is the man CNN would like to put up to you as somebody who's just providing you the

01:11:42.620 straight news.

01:11:43.120 You, if you support Donald Trump, let's say you're super pro-life.

01:11:45.840 That's your single voting issue.

01:11:47.700 No, sir.

01:11:48.440 You're actually a racist and a misogynist, courtesy of Don.

01:11:51.960 He'll walk you through it, but not over a cup of coffee because he can't stand you.

01:11:56.280 If you're somebody who's sick and tired of the school restrictions and you might doubt

01:12:00.820 the information you're getting from Dr. Fauci and you might want to give Dr. Scott Atlas

01:12:04.760 a listen.

01:12:06.520 No, you're bad.

01:12:07.640 You have to be cut out of Don's life.

01:12:09.540 I don't know.

01:12:10.380 That's not how I run my life.

01:12:11.640 But I have to say, if I were cut out of his, I think I'd be celebrating in the streets.

01:12:16.120 And that is what we call Sound Up.

01:12:18.100 Robert Cahaley is with me now.

01:12:24.080 He is the guy behind the polling firm Trafalgar, which is loathed by people like Nate Silver

01:12:30.720 over at FiveThirtyEight and Philip Bump of The Washington Post, but got it right, unlike

01:12:35.760 virtually everyone else back in 2016.

01:12:37.940 This is a guy who saw Trump's victory coming when virtually no one else did.

01:12:43.380 Robert, thank you so much for being here.

01:12:44.760 It is an honor to be here.

01:12:45.780 All right, so FiveThirtyEight, Nate Silver, right now they're saying Joe Biden has a 90%

01:12:50.580 chance of winning and that there is a 76% chance that the Democrats win the Senate.

01:12:56.140 Do you disagree?

01:12:56.980 Very much.

01:12:57.780 I think that, well, I've seen Nate hedge a little bit lately and he starts saying things

01:13:02.540 like, well, if Biden doesn't get a 5% or greater spread in the popular vote, then those

01:13:09.080 numbers don't hold up.

01:13:10.380 So they're backing off a little bit.

01:13:12.700 I feel like the race is exactly where I kind of assumed it would be.

01:13:19.840 The fundamental problem with the polling today is that people are very, very hesitant to

01:13:26.460 say they're for Trump.

01:13:27.560 And, you know, you don't have to take my word for it.

01:13:29.000 Take Michael Moore's word for it.

01:13:31.220 He says not to trust these polls and that Biden didn't do it anywhere near as good as these

01:13:35.660 things say, because he believes that Trump supporters are also hesitant to say they're

01:13:40.340 for Trump.

01:13:41.460 And, you know, we saw this four years ago.

01:13:44.100 It is much greater than today than it was four years ago.

01:13:48.420 People just don't want to deal with the stigma.

01:13:51.140 They don't know whether it's really a poll.

01:13:53.920 I mean, you know, we get the first two questions we get if we talk to somebody.

01:13:57.500 One, how long is this going to take?

01:13:59.820 Or, you know, our second question, is this really a poll?

01:14:04.600 Are you recording this?

01:14:06.600 I mean, it literally is.

01:14:08.240 People are so nervous and it's not and it's across the board with anybody who's for Trump.

01:14:15.300 So I think there's no question that this entire election comes down to how big is the shy

01:14:20.100 Trump vote?

01:14:20.820 That's really what the election is about.

01:14:22.500 How big is the shy Trump vote?

01:14:23.860 Because if there is none and all these other polls are right, Biden's going to win in a

01:14:27.700 landslide.

01:14:28.520 And if there is some, but it's just a little, then Biden's still going to win, but it might

01:14:32.760 not be in a landslide.

01:14:34.020 But if there's a big, shy Trump vote, Trump could win and he could win big on Tuesday night.

01:14:40.000 So you're the one guy who's really trying in earnest to figure out how big is the shy

01:14:46.920 Trump vote and how do we account for them?

01:14:49.300 Let me just say the other pollsters say he's not the only one.

01:14:53.860 We understood that we didn't poll correctly last time around.

01:14:57.080 And we now know that there was an intensity of voters that, you know, we just overlooked

01:15:03.680 and we didn't adequately wait for them.

01:15:07.700 And now we've corrected all of that.

01:15:09.600 Why is that not true?

01:15:11.500 Well, first of all, they don't admit the shy Trump voter exists.

01:15:14.600 They think they underweighted non-college whites.

01:15:21.600 And that after all their gnashing of teeth and all their little whole blue meetings, that's

01:15:28.180 what they've come up with is they didn't wait right.

01:15:30.220 They do not acknowledge that they have a fundamental flaw with the live call polling system.

01:15:35.800 And that is where the shy voter is most likely to stay shy.

01:15:39.840 And the proof of it is we had a dress rehearsal.

01:15:43.560 It was called Florida 2018, where there was also a shy vote.

01:15:48.060 And it was for DeSantis because people were out there.

01:15:53.240 You know, there was an over-inflated vote for Gillum.

01:15:56.380 And they every single one of these firms all got it wrong again.

01:16:00.560 And again, we were the only one that saw that DeSantis was going to win that race.

01:16:04.620 So, you know, like I said, you tell me you fixed it, fine.

01:16:09.740 But if it was a plumber and they leave the house and all of a sudden the next thing and

01:16:13.060 turn it on, the worst phrase of war, they didn't fix anything.

01:16:16.000 There are two groups of voters that the pollsters missed last time around.

01:16:20.140 They missed the shy Trump voters and they missed rural voters, like first-time voters

01:16:26.100 who normally wouldn't have shown up.

01:16:27.940 Is that right?

01:16:29.220 It is.

01:16:30.140 And that's one of the things we did different.

01:16:31.620 It's right after the South Carolina Georgia primary, because those are the, you know,

01:16:35.860 those are the two states that I live in and grew up in.

01:16:39.540 I saw all the, kept hearing these stories about people showing up to vote who didn't

01:16:44.740 know how to use the, you know, the electric machines.

01:16:47.740 And I'm like, these electronics have been placed for 20 years.

01:16:52.000 What are you talking about?

01:16:53.640 So I would really, that summer, we studied, all right, who are these people that have come

01:16:58.340 out of the woodwork?

01:16:58.900 They're not new voters and we built a fingerprint.

01:17:02.340 We came up with that 57 characteristics that seem to define all those voters.

01:17:07.700 And we went through for 2016 in the fall and we, anybody we saw on the voter list that,

01:17:13.400 that matched like 12 of them, we considered a potential, what we call Trump surge voter.

01:17:19.740 And we accounted for them in our likely voter universe.

01:17:23.460 And sure enough, they did show up because now when we look back between 2016 and 1992,

01:17:31.000 there's all the vast majority of people who voted one time in that 14 year period,

01:17:37.560 better than 2016.

01:17:38.900 Okay.

01:17:39.380 Cause the pollsters are saying that they fixed that piece, whether they, whether they believe

01:17:43.380 in the shy Trump voter, we'll get to in a second, but they are saying that they have fixed

01:17:47.220 their underestimation of the, the intensity of rural voters for Trump that normally wouldn't

01:17:52.700 be in the voting population.

01:17:54.060 Do you, do you agree that they have fixed that?

01:17:56.440 Well, remember there are two things that you just said.

01:17:58.600 One was the rural voters and their intensity and others were the first time voters.

01:18:04.940 I think they might've fixed that, but fix the rural voter thing.

01:18:09.300 Maybe, maybe, but it's the first times, if it's a first time voter and you haven't figured

01:18:16.480 out a way to figure out who that's likely to be, then you haven't really fixed it.

01:18:21.580 Now we figured it out last time because we knew who they were going to be and they were

01:18:26.120 very much exactly who we thought they would be.

01:18:28.780 And they represented roughly the area we thought they would represent.

01:18:33.780 But now this time is, this time, are they going through the voter list and looking and saying,

01:18:39.080 all right, who are the people who have been stagnant for a lot of years that we think are

01:18:42.460 going to participate this year?

01:18:44.040 And I don't believe they've done that because I've been literally working those kinds of surveys

01:18:48.920 for this entire time on these low propensity voters and can give you numbers across the country

01:18:56.840 and what those are.

01:18:58.460 And I do not, I do not buy that for one second.

01:19:01.240 OK, so now, so that's one group.

01:19:04.140 And then there's the shy Trump vote.

01:19:06.000 And I, there is no question in my mind that there is a shy Trump voter and it's significant.

01:19:12.020 And I actually think these huge gaps in the gender distribution, like these women who are

01:19:17.400 not saying publicly that they're not going to, that they will vote for him, make up a healthy

01:19:22.100 proportion of them.

01:19:23.320 And these colleges, you are absolutely right, right?

01:19:25.660 Because I know women here at, in New York City last week, I was sitting around at a dinner

01:19:30.360 with a bunch of women, all of whom, you know, you look at their Facebook pages, Biden, Biden,

01:19:35.040 Biden, Biden, Biden.

01:19:36.220 And then, and then there's my one friend who's just not saying much, you know, she's not really

01:19:40.140 saying much.

01:19:40.820 And then later, of course, we talk and she feels very differently.

01:19:44.540 And it happens to me all the time where, because people will confide in me because they

01:19:48.020 know I was at Fox News for 13 years.

01:19:49.820 They know I had to dust up with Trump, but they know I'm very fair.

01:19:52.020 And they'll tell me privately, I'm voting for him.

01:19:56.580 And I will never admit it.

01:19:57.560 I have another friend who's a fairly well-known actress.

01:20:01.620 And she's like, oh, hell no, I'm not telling anybody I'm voting for him.

01:20:04.620 I'll get kicked out of Hollywood.

01:20:06.000 But she's voting for Trump.

01:20:07.600 So it's, it's gotten to the point now you've, I've heard you point this out before where

01:20:11.000 it's more dangerous, if you will, sadly, than ever to say you're voting for him.

01:20:17.900 It's gotten only worse since 2016.

01:20:19.720 So you think this population has only grown?

01:20:22.920 I think it was absolutely grown.

01:20:24.900 And it's really fascinating.

01:20:26.880 Up until 10 days ago, if I had to give you the top three demographics for shy Trump voters,

01:20:33.760 it was first, suburban women of higher income, suburban white women of higher income.

01:20:42.180 Second was black men under 50.

01:20:45.600 And the third was suburban men with higher income.

01:20:50.700 Now, something happened in the last 10 days.

01:20:53.960 And all of a sudden, the shy Trump vote among the African American community dissolved.

01:20:59.620 And they, you know, we've seen that number go from 15, 17, some of these states to over 20 in North Carolina,

01:21:07.020 over 20 in Michigan, over 20 in Florida, over 20 in Minnesota.

01:21:12.160 I mean, just like.

01:21:12.720 Wait, over 20 what?

01:21:13.760 Over 20 what?

01:21:14.280 Over 20 percent of the black voters in those states are all now saying they're for Trump.

01:21:19.400 Openly saying.

01:21:20.800 Openly saying it.

01:21:21.640 No more hidden vote.

01:21:22.600 No more shy.

01:21:24.040 Just like when I put it out on Twitter, I'm like, you know, the shy Trump vote just just got a little less shy.

01:21:31.280 They're coming out of their shell.

01:21:32.520 Well, you've had, you know, you've had Ice Cube out there saying he's, you know,

01:21:38.340 at least he's talking to the Trump campaign and wants to work with them on improving people's lives in the black community.

01:21:44.080 And then he had 50 Cent come out and then he got shamed by Chelsea Handler, among others, kind of started to waffle.

01:21:49.280 But you have had some well-known, not to mention Kanye, well-known African American men come out and say,

01:21:55.060 I'm open-minded at least and may even be supporting him.

01:21:58.280 And sometimes that's what it takes.

01:22:00.220 People can't understand the debate because that's what we're hearing is that, you know,

01:22:04.080 we delve in and ask a little more from people who had not been with Trump before.

01:22:08.360 And they say, you know, I did.

01:22:11.520 I'd never heard all this stuff about the funding of the historically black colleges.

01:22:15.340 I heard a little something about the criminal justice forum, had never heard of the Platinum Plan or the Enterprise Zoned.

01:22:21.680 And frankly, if you weren't listening to conservative talk or you weren't watching conservative TV,

01:22:27.140 you might not have known that.

01:22:28.500 Well, the first time many of them heard that was the debate.

01:22:31.200 And they tell me I Googled it and realized it was true and thought, why didn't this happen before?

01:22:38.900 So what about OK, so the question is, how do you figure out what the number is?

01:22:43.900 And I know you've done all sorts of waiting to try to predict this is the number of the shy Trump vote,

01:22:48.360 which will be reflected in the Trafalgar poll numbers, but nobody else is.

01:22:51.860 That's why you've got him leading in most of these states, whereas Biden is leading in most of the other polls.

01:22:56.660 So some of the response to this has been, look, 2020 is not 2016.

01:23:04.380 That Biden, unlike Hillary, has had a large, sustained lead over Trump all along.

01:23:10.380 He has led him in the polls by an average of 7.1 percent.

01:23:13.700 Hillary led Trump by an average of 3.7 percent.

01:23:16.520 And then in 2016, we saw a tightening in the polls at the last minute.

01:23:20.620 And we did. We did see a tightening in the polls the last minute.

01:23:23.000 That even put Trump up in many states that he's now projected to be down in.

01:23:28.920 That should have shown people it was closer than we knew.

01:23:32.120 And they're saying none of that is happening in 2020.

01:23:35.600 What's what's your response to that?

01:23:38.120 My response to that is they're right.

01:23:40.140 2020 isn't 2016 was the word cancel culture part of the national vocabulary in 2016.

01:23:49.320 No, it was not was deplorable.

01:23:51.400 One of the worst things people said about Trump supporters.

01:23:54.180 Is that the worst thing they say today?

01:23:56.960 The world has changed.

01:23:58.940 And the toleration for people who don't have the mainstream media accepted version of opinion.

01:24:10.080 They're very much criticized for that.

01:24:13.420 I mean, the what we've seen, you know, people have their houses trashed, people being beat up for wearing a Trump hat.

01:24:20.800 I mean, we have a very polarized country right now and people are extremely hesitant to get, you know, come a little too out front.

01:24:30.680 And I mean, the harassment.

01:24:33.100 I mean, I don't even think we knew what the word doxing was four years ago.

01:24:36.600 So a lot of things have happened that are different.

01:24:39.220 And I think that has all led to this.

01:24:44.060 The other thing is we had a cultural thing happen this spring and this summer.

01:24:51.700 And this is what I hear all the time is that it's what happened in the wake of all the riots and the violence.

01:25:02.120 And then we had, you know, defund the police, full-fledged cancel culture, tearing down statues of Abraham Lincoln and Columbus.

01:25:10.400 And then we were literally having a debate in the United States of America a week before the 4th of July as to whether Mount Rushmore is a white supremacist symbol.

01:25:21.040 And people just said, what?

01:25:23.640 Average Americans were like, what is happening to this country?

01:25:27.780 And it was like the values that everybody accepted.

01:25:32.220 You know, the old Superman slogan, truth, justice, the American way, is now offensive.

01:25:36.340 Whether America is exceptional, whether America is a force for good in the world, is now being debated.

01:25:42.620 Well, there are a lot of people in this country that made really, really angry.

01:25:47.520 Right.

01:25:48.080 And they know there's a price to pay for sharing that anger on social media.

01:25:52.040 But they share it with us.

01:25:53.620 They share it when they get comfortable.

01:25:55.460 And they assure that for the first time in a long time that many of them are going to vote.

01:26:01.340 That's how I feel.

01:26:02.280 They share it with me, too.

01:26:03.260 So if I had a nickel for the number of people who have come up to me to tell me that they're going to vote for Trump, they don't like some of his sharp elbows.

01:26:10.660 They don't like what he says on Twitter and all that.

01:26:12.340 But they're voting for him because they're sick of all this BS.

01:26:15.080 They're sick of being told how they have to think.

01:26:17.500 And this is the one opportunity they have to really fight back.

01:26:21.180 Their employer doesn't know what they do in the voting booth.

01:26:23.680 Their neighbors, their friends don't know.

01:26:25.720 I really do feel like you get it because it's so the intensity I hear is like an itch.

01:26:31.660 They have to scratch.

01:26:32.820 And the only way they scratch is Election Day.

01:26:35.240 And it could be storming.

01:26:37.100 It could be thunder.

01:26:37.760 There could be hail coming through the building.

01:26:39.940 But they're going to vote because they have to have their say.

01:26:44.080 And they're just so mad.

01:26:45.500 They've been so mad for so long.

01:26:46.920 And they tell me all the time I'm inundated with this.

01:26:50.440 And I mean, even with, you know, some of, I mean, I hear from some of the, you know,

01:26:53.820 they talk about suburban women.

01:26:55.260 I hear from moms who hate everything about Trump, but they hate those kids being at home.

01:27:00.560 They think they're getting behind in school.

01:27:02.420 I talked to businesswomen who were telling me I used to, I was an equal with the men in

01:27:07.320 my office, but now I'm staying home with the kids all day and they're getting ahead of

01:27:10.800 me and it's not fair and I don't like it.

01:27:12.380 And there's no reason my kids to be home.

01:27:14.760 I mean, that they're pushing back on all this stuff and voting for a guy they don't like

01:27:18.560 because they think it's what's best for their family.

01:27:21.160 Well, and it's like, you see, you know, you're told by everybody that you're a racist or

01:27:24.180 you're a bigot, you're transphobe if you vote for Trump.

01:27:26.400 And I think some of the moms I've talked to are saying, you know, I'm more worried about

01:27:30.820 my kid being called a racist or a bigot or a transphobe for one false step in his or

01:27:36.100 her class.

01:27:36.800 Like this, this whole thing is going to get passed down unless it's stopped, unless we

01:27:42.080 have somebody standing up to these bullies and Trump for all of his faults is such a

01:27:47.680 person, you know, but we'll see whether people think that's the issue they want to vote on.

01:27:52.600 You know, there are a lot of people on their heels about COVID who feel like somehow Biden

01:27:57.540 can solve it in a way Trump couldn't.

01:28:00.000 And a lot of Democrats and sort of center folks who are sick of the Trump chaos, right?

01:28:04.700 The Trump show has gotten old for them.

01:28:07.100 Absolutely.

01:28:08.140 But, you know, it's funny.

01:28:09.960 I feel like, you know, saying to the Carvels of the world, so you're telling me it was the

01:28:14.280 economy stupid in 92, but it's the personality stupid.

01:28:19.920 I don't think I buy that.

01:28:20.940 I don't think people vote against their own self-interest quite as much as you think.

01:28:26.900 And, but if you are for Trump, you might not tell anybody.

01:28:31.220 I mean, we have, we, we use the neighbor question four years ago.

01:28:35.400 We talked about it in the media after the election was over and everybody's copying it.

01:28:40.020 We got stuff so much better than that this year, but I ain't telling everybody.

01:28:44.280 No, good for you.

01:28:44.860 They're going to steal it.

01:28:45.780 By the way, the neighbor question is, you know, Donna, how do you feel?

01:28:49.340 And Donna's like, oh, I'm voting for Biden.

01:28:51.080 Then you say, Donna, what do your neighbor say?

01:28:53.520 How do you think your neighbor is going to vote?

01:28:54.760 And Donna's like, oh, they're definitely voting for Trump.

01:28:56.860 And as a Robert has used this to sort of get to Donna's voting for Trump, Donna,

01:29:02.220 Donna will talk about what the neighbor says, but Donna's not going to say what, you know,

01:29:05.720 she actually thinks because she says she doesn't want to be shamed.

01:29:07.880 Right.

01:29:08.140 Does that basically sum it up?

01:29:10.200 Absolutely.

01:29:10.460 It's a projection device.

01:29:11.600 And, you know, and I, whereas a lot of these guys take credit for it and do it themselves

01:29:17.260 and don't acknowledge us, I've always, everywhere I go, acknowledge a guy named Rod Cheely,

01:29:22.480 who was a contemporary of Lee Outwater, who was a pollster in South Carolina, told me,

01:29:27.400 you got to find a nice way to ask people about things that aren't pleasant.

01:29:31.160 And he told me about this years and years ago.

01:29:33.560 So I don't take credit for other people's ideas.

01:29:36.100 I got it from Rod.

01:29:37.040 I thought it was interesting how you were you were pointing out in another show that

01:29:40.920 because the question was the Trump voters, they don't seem shy, you know, when you see

01:29:46.680 them out there on the streets.

01:29:47.680 And your point was, those are just the ones who aren't.

01:29:50.640 There are lots of Trump voters who are loving it.

01:29:53.140 They weigh the MAGA hat.

01:29:54.000 They don't care what you think.

01:29:55.240 But there is another contingent that doesn't like confrontation.

01:29:59.420 And those are the ones who aren't being counted.

01:30:03.740 And it's about your first day.

01:30:05.200 There are people who live for confrontational situations.

01:30:08.220 And there are people who will avoid them as part of Black society in any situation.

01:30:13.660 And so especially, you know, I hear them say, well, you know, I don't believe they're

01:30:17.880 Trump supporters.

01:30:18.560 All the Trump supporters I know, you know, ride around and pick up trucks with big flags

01:30:22.160 and stuff.

01:30:22.520 And they're just so annoying.

01:30:23.580 And I'm like, and you know what, there are probably Trump supporters who agree with you

01:30:28.040 and don't want you to think of them the way you think of those guys.

01:30:31.660 And that's why you don't know that for Trump.

01:30:34.760 So what now that we're less than 24 hours out, have you waffled it all?

01:30:41.340 Are you is it do you think the vote for Trump is getting any weaker, stronger?

01:30:45.160 What?

01:30:48.220 I've never bought into the idea that the hidden vote didn't exist.

01:30:51.420 It is counterintuitive to all logic to think that it doesn't.

01:30:55.340 We saw it demonstrated before.

01:30:58.300 And, you know, I grew up doing politics in South Carolina.

01:31:01.260 So I saw it when I was a kid doing politics, watching TV coverage from North Carolina.

01:31:07.260 I saw Jesse Helms' vote.

01:31:08.980 They said if Jesse was only down by five, he was going to win by two.

01:31:12.540 So I know this is real.

01:31:13.920 I've experienced this in my life.

01:31:15.480 I've seen it in race after race after race.

01:31:18.420 So I know that it's real.

01:31:19.460 No, I'm not backing off.

01:31:20.880 I think that that's the problem is that people don't.

01:31:25.440 There are other pollsters who tell me they agree with me, but they just don't want to

01:31:29.480 take the risk.

01:31:30.120 They don't want to get that far out front.

01:31:32.120 Oh, really?

01:31:33.360 Yep.

01:31:33.900 Oh, absolutely.

01:31:34.820 There are ones who.

01:31:35.900 There's a shy Trump pollster.

01:31:38.740 Yep.

01:31:39.280 Oh, there's there's lots of them.

01:31:41.240 You know, the ones that that know it's real and that every now and then I'll throw a poll

01:31:44.500 out there that that that the mainstream likes so they can put some ones that the mainstream

01:31:48.140 doesn't like.

01:31:48.740 Well, there's a few like that and they're doing what they can.

01:31:52.120 I understand they're trying to protect.

01:31:53.780 They're trying to protect their careers and all that stuff.

01:31:56.720 And I'm like, hey, you know what?

01:31:58.000 I know there's safety in numbers, but it is so much better if you just say what you believe.

01:32:03.900 And if you're wrong, you're wrong.

01:32:05.780 You just admit it.

01:32:06.780 We've made mistakes.

01:32:07.800 I've admitted them.

01:32:08.520 I've admitted why.

01:32:09.180 The only thing I can promise you is if I am wrong, I will spend a lot of time figuring

01:32:13.740 out why.

01:32:14.780 Well, I like your no fear approach.

01:32:17.160 That's our approach here on this show as well.

01:32:19.260 It's like, this is what I think.

01:32:20.620 And, you know, right or wrong, I'm going to stand by it.

01:32:23.000 Do you as I look at your sort of projection, seems like the only state that Trump won the

01:32:28.740 last time around that you you might be a little wobbly on is Wisconsin.

01:32:33.140 Is that right?

01:32:34.620 Or is there more in the list of don't bet on it for Trump winning?

01:32:40.980 The other state that I talk about is Pennsylvania.

01:32:44.840 I'm a real big believer in significant voter fraud in Pennsylvania.

01:32:49.100 And although I have him up by one, I believe he has to win it by four or more to receive

01:32:54.480 the votes there.

01:32:55.620 I think that the Supreme Court ruling, the state Supreme Court allowing advocacy ballots

01:33:00.680 without postmarked is absolute.

01:33:03.800 I mean, they have they have literally opened the floodgates for fraud in Philadelphia, in

01:33:09.060 particular, in the state of Pennsylvania is famous for fraud, like famous Chicago, famous

01:33:13.920 for fraud.

01:33:15.180 And I think that is that is institutional fraud the moment you open that door.

01:33:21.280 So I believe Trump is probably going to get the most votes in Pennsylvania.

01:33:25.680 I am not sure he will be given the election win in Pennsylvania unless he gets wins by

01:33:31.860 four percent or more.

01:33:33.780 So final prediction on Electoral College.

01:33:36.400 What do you think?

01:33:37.680 Trump's at least mid to upper 270s.

01:33:41.380 Hmm.

01:33:41.880 Mid to upper.

01:33:42.580 And my last question, are you nervous as the only guy who's out on that limb?

01:33:46.880 Are you nervous?

01:33:48.860 You know, the way the way I look at it is this.

01:33:51.640 I was the only guy on that limb four years ago when I said it.

01:33:54.420 Um, and if you don't take a stand, I've had lots of opportunities in life when I had to

01:34:02.680 I had the easy thing was to kind of sulk away and quote unquote hide in the basement.

01:34:09.700 But that that's just not me.

01:34:11.740 I'm, you know, I'm the same I'm the same way if I'm playing roulette.

01:34:15.500 I mean, I'm just I'm in and that's the way I'm playing.

01:34:18.200 And and I think I think I'm right.

01:34:20.340 And I'm willing to take a gamble because the return is just too high.

01:34:22.920 Uh, and if I'm wrong, I'll admit it.

01:34:24.900 Then and if you called it right, you're going to be a hero and everybody's going to want

01:34:28.180 to come work for you.

01:34:29.180 Every polling outlet in the country is going to be on a knee saying they're sorry.

01:34:32.500 No, they're not.

01:34:33.020 They're actually going to find something wrong with you.

01:34:34.520 But oh, they're going to they're going to make up all kind of reasons they were wrong,

01:34:37.780 just like they did last time.

01:34:39.000 They're going to have a bunch of little meetings.

01:34:40.960 They're going to figure out they waited something wrong.

01:34:42.900 And the media is going to forget and forgive because their job really wasn't to reflect

01:34:48.560 the election.

01:34:50.220 Their job was to affect the election.

01:34:53.060 Hmm.

01:34:53.740 Well said.

01:34:54.640 So good to talk to you, Robert.

01:34:55.800 Thank you so much for being here.

01:34:57.380 Absolutely.

01:34:58.060 It's great to be here.

01:34:59.260 Wow.

01:34:59.740 Fascinating guy, isn't he?

01:35:01.180 That's like, think about that.

01:35:02.960 I mean, he got it right.

01:35:04.060 He got it right in 2018.

01:35:05.640 He got it right in 2016.

01:35:07.040 He's been the scourge of the mainstream media because you're not saying what they're saying

01:35:10.840 and they want to delegitimize him.

01:35:13.100 And thankfully, this is one of those games where the outcome is knowable.

01:35:17.000 We're going to find out on Tuesday one way or the other.

01:35:21.040 My thanks to Robert, to Andrew Yang and to Hugh Hewitt for being with me.

01:35:25.640 And I quickly want to tell you that today's episode was brought to you in part by Stamps.com.

01:35:30.440 Don't spend a minute of your holiday season at the post office this year.

01:35:33.400 Sign up for Stamps.com instead and use code MK for a special offer.

01:35:39.480 So we are going to have a show tomorrow, Tuesday, election day as well.

01:35:43.340 And we're going to have one after that.

01:35:45.220 We're going to have a few this week for you.

01:35:46.440 We're going to have more this week than we normally do because it's such a big week.

01:35:49.780 We want to be there for you guys.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - November 02, 2020

Election Eve with Hugh Hewitt, Andrew Yang and Robert Cahaly ｜ Ep. 18

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