The Megyn Kelly Show - Election Weekend with James Rosen, Kim Klacik and Doug Schoen

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00:00:31.200 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest and provocative conversations.

00:00:37.440 Today, the beginning of election weekend

00:00:40.020 and we will be joined for the final days of this 2020 race by James Rosen,

00:00:45.240 Kim Klasik, you remember her, she gave The View such a hard time, it was awesome

00:00:48.660 and Doug Schoen, my favorite Democrat pollster from Fox News.

00:00:52.560 Stay tuned.

00:00:56.540 Hey everybody, it's Megyn Kelly and welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:00.040 This is it, last few days before the big vote

00:01:03.400 and hopefully by this point next week we're going to know who the winner is.

00:01:07.600 Hopefully.

00:01:08.440 Got a lot to go over today and we're going to get started with James Rosen,

00:01:11.300 my old pal from Fox News in just one second.

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00:02:41.340 And now, James Rosen.

00:02:44.020 He is the national investigative reporter for Sinclair Broadcast Group and the New York

00:02:48.880 Times bestselling author and all around great guy and friend.

00:02:52.240 James, so good to have you here.

00:02:53.520 How are you?

00:02:54.160 Megan, I'm blessed to be with you.

00:02:55.860 It's so good to hear your voice.

00:02:57.320 Oh, I have missed you.

00:02:58.880 I have missed you so much.

00:02:59.960 And I want to catch up personally, but I guess we got to get to the news at hand.

00:03:04.080 But you're well, you're happy, you're doing great as this investigative reporter.

00:03:08.120 Yeah, Sinclair is very good to me.

00:03:09.660 They have stations across the country, and they're growing.

00:03:13.040 But I feel like our separation, Megan, has just been one very long commercial break.

00:03:18.220 And now we're back.

00:03:19.720 You know, when I first met James in the D.C. Bureau, because that's where I started for

00:03:23.080 Fox, and he was there, he was asking me, so how's it going?

00:03:26.700 How are you enjoying it?

00:03:27.600 And I said, well, I like it.

00:03:28.980 But one of my frustrations is I don't really get to break a lot of news.

00:03:32.600 This is when I was doing, you know, eight hits a morning on Fox and Friends, and then

00:03:36.980 whatever show preceded the show, I would ultimately start with Hammer, America's Newsroom, a couple

00:03:41.380 years later.

00:03:42.460 And I said, so I can't really work the stories.

00:03:44.900 I just kind of go off somebody else's reporting.

00:03:47.160 And he said, oh, oh, my dear, that's where you're confused.

00:03:50.960 You thought that you were actually a reporter.

00:03:53.420 You are, in fact, an element presenter.

00:03:57.620 I dispute that I would have ever have addressed you as my dear.

00:04:01.080 I may have editorialized there a little bit.

00:04:03.740 I may have embellished.

00:04:05.020 But remember that?

00:04:05.740 Because it's true.

00:04:06.460 When you first start off and you're just doing these hits, it's not about reporting.

00:04:09.940 It's about learning how to be on television.

00:04:12.280 Yeah.

00:04:12.600 And, you know, you started at a very high level, having come, you know, from the legal

00:04:17.160 world and with just a short period of time as a local reporter.

00:04:21.340 But I think you've done good.

00:04:24.060 It worked out OK in the end.

00:04:25.860 But you were always such a good friend to me, you and your wife, Sarah.

00:04:28.740 And it's just a pleasure to reconnect.

00:04:30.400 And a great reporter.

00:04:32.460 So let's start with because I haven't talked to you.

00:04:34.040 So can I just start with your overall take on where this race is right now with just days

00:04:39.080 to go?

00:04:40.420 It's close and it's getting tighter, as a lot of people predicted it would, as our times

00:04:46.220 sort of demand.

00:04:47.480 I was looking recently, Megan, at the last five presidents who won re-election.

00:04:52.940 OK, that brings us to Ronald Reagan, Richard Nixon, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama and George

00:05:01.120 W. Bush.

00:05:01.740 And that, in fact, is the order in which if you total up the two elections in which those

00:05:06.920 presidents won, right, when they get elected and then when they got re-elected, if you total

00:05:11.480 up their total number of electoral votes between those two elections for each of those people,

00:05:17.340 President Reagan had the highest of the five recent presidents who got re-elected with over

00:05:22.960 1,000 electoral votes.

00:05:24.980 Richard Nixon came in second with over 800.

00:05:27.820 Then you go to Bill Clinton, who had about 790 plus.

00:05:31.800 Number four on the ranking is Barack Obama.

00:05:34.760 And number five is George W. Bush.

00:05:36.480 And what does that tell us?

00:05:38.820 It tells us that this is a function of our ever more polarized political culture, that

00:05:46.060 even presidents who did very well, who sort of creamed their opponent, right, such as Barack

00:05:51.480 Obama did in 2008 and 2012, he's still the fourth of the five most recent re-elected presidents

00:05:57.020 in terms of overall electoral votes.

00:05:59.260 It tells you that our politics are really tight.

00:06:02.120 We have close races, more than we ever did before, and there's very little margin for

00:06:06.600 error.

00:06:07.460 You can see the same when you look at the Supreme Court confirmation votes, where you had people

00:06:12.140 like Ginsburg and Scalia, polar opposites on the ideological spectrum, getting confirmed

00:06:16.860 98 to 2 or 98 to 0.

00:06:20.160 And now look at the votes today.

00:06:21.960 It's split right down the middle along partisan lines.

00:06:25.180 Well, I've been saying that I view the presidential contest as like a basketball game where the only

00:06:29.620 thing that matters is the last two minutes, and we're in the last two minutes now, and

00:06:34.020 we're going to have Doug Schoen, another Fox favorite, coming out in a minute to talk to

00:06:37.160 us about the polls.

00:06:38.020 But they are tightening, as expected.

00:06:40.940 And, you know, the real question is how much trust do we put in them?

00:06:44.540 But I want to talk to you about a couple items in the news that may affect these next few

00:06:48.780 days and possibly some of the votes.

00:06:50.880 Let's talk about Pennsylvania, because I have yet to find somebody who knows what they're

00:06:54.700 talking about in this race who doesn't mention that state first.

00:06:57.980 It's the most important right now.

00:07:00.600 Trump really needs to win it again, really wants to win it again.

00:07:04.320 And Biden is, according to the polls, leading there and really wants to take it as well.

00:07:10.420 That something went on there over the past week, few days that could affect potentially

00:07:15.020 the balance of the race.

00:07:16.580 And that is another police-involved shooting of Walter Wallace Jr., a 27-year-old man who was

00:07:24.900 reported to the police for having been screaming and running around with a knife.

00:07:30.480 The cops showed up.

00:07:32.180 The guy was sort of running down the sidewalk, then came into the road and then came.

00:07:36.900 It looked to me and watching the video at the police with a knife and they opened fire on

00:07:42.000 him, shooting him repeatedly.

00:07:44.280 And he died.

00:07:45.260 Now we've had days of riots in Philadelphia.

00:07:49.880 And again, this is this is an important state.

00:07:51.740 So this has political implications as well.

00:07:55.160 The Walmart was ransacked and ATM was exploded.

00:07:58.420 They've had, I think, 30 cops wounded.

00:08:01.000 A dozen people shot the other night.

00:08:04.040 Both candidates have condemned the looting and the rioting.

00:08:07.420 But here we are again asking ourselves, how does this play politically when you have another

00:08:13.740 black man shot and more rioting and looting in response?

00:08:18.880 What are your thoughts?

00:08:20.640 First, we're obligated to express our condolences to the victim's family and to recognize that

00:08:26.280 this is a human tragedy.

00:08:27.880 But since our focus today is politics, we examine the political impact of this tragic event.

00:08:34.200 Um, uh, it's, it's interesting that, uh, the violence that we're seeing on the streets

00:08:40.880 in Philadelphia after this incident, uh, became known doesn't seem to be as, as virulent or

00:08:49.560 widespread as we saw in the immediate aftermath of the George Floyd killing.

00:08:54.640 Uh, it also has not spread to other cities around the country.

00:08:58.300 And I find that fascinating.

00:08:59.660 And you have to ask yourself, why isn't it?

00:09:01.380 It could simply be fatigue.

00:09:02.800 It could simply be the weather that people, uh, are, are the people who turn out and commit

00:09:08.380 violence and riot will, will more readily do so in warm weather than they will in, um,

00:09:12.960 in late October.

00:09:14.180 Uh, it could also be that, uh, there are organized elements to these things and that perhaps,

00:09:20.600 uh, so close to the election, um, it is seen from the perspective of those groups and individuals

00:09:26.560 as undesirable, uh, for, uh, for the, the candidate they would want to win, meaning Mr.

00:09:32.020 Biden, uh, if, if, if there is pervasive disorder in the streets of the United States at this

00:09:37.780 point, that that might benefit president Trump.

00:09:39.860 So I can't say why it's not spreading the way it's spread across the country, uh, in the

00:09:44.700 springtime.

00:09:45.220 Um, but as it stands, um, I don't see it having much of an impact at all, uh, simply because,

00:09:52.540 um, uh, again, there's the Trump voters or the likely Trump voters, there's the likely

00:09:59.820 Biden voters.

00:10:00.620 And then there is the very narrow band of persuadables who haven't yet voted.

00:10:04.700 Um, and I don't think if you're motivated to vote for president Trump, he will have some

00:10:09.800 number of voters of his likely Trump voters who just won't, won't vote.

00:10:13.600 Right.

00:10:13.940 And the question is, uh, how many of them will be swayed by what's happening in Philadelphia

00:10:18.420 to go vote for him?

00:10:19.280 I suspect very few, if any, uh, no Biden voters are going to, uh, change, uh, their vote as

00:10:25.360 a result of it.

00:10:26.260 Uh, and if you're truly undecided and it's hard to even fathom these people, right?

00:10:29.920 Like, how could you not have an opinion on president Trump at this point or, or Joe Biden

00:10:33.560 for that matter?

00:10:34.280 But to the extent that they exist, uh, probably I would have to imagine that events other than

00:10:39.200 what we're seeing on the streets of Philadelphia will, will, uh, determine a, whether they go

00:10:44.380 out and vote at all and be for whom they vote.

00:10:47.080 I think you're a lot of the undecideds are people who might not like Donald Trump's style,

00:10:52.560 his, his affect is what the things he says or tweets, but they, but they like his policies

00:10:59.100 or national review just had a column this week saying a vote for Trump is a, is a middle

00:11:04.720 finger on the culture wars.

00:11:07.120 And so there may be a lot of people out there who don't really love Trump personally, the

00:11:10.720 way his core fans do, but they're sick of leftist woke bullies trying to tell people

00:11:17.300 how to live.

00:11:17.880 And if that's, if you are such a person in Philadelphia, a suburban mom in Philadelphia,

00:11:22.200 this is who everyone's courting, you know, the, the, the more writing, the more problematic

00:11:28.160 because I mean, Walter Wallace jr was bipolar and had mental health issues, which makes

00:11:34.220 anyone feel compassionate for him.

00:11:38.040 But we don't know that the police knew that what we do know is he was awaiting trial for

00:11:43.220 allegedly threatening to shoot a woman in her house up that in 2017, he pleaded guilty

00:11:48.020 to robbery, assault, and possessing a weapon after kicking down the door of another woman

00:11:51.780 and putting a gun to her head.

00:11:52.940 He served one to two years and he pleaded guilty a couple of years earlier to, to assault

00:11:57.260 and resisting arrest after punching a cop in the face.

00:11:59.940 Now, again, we don't know what the officers knew when they showed up there, but in a lot

00:12:04.500 of these cases, once you hear, you know, what the background was of the person interacting

00:12:09.680 with the cops as he came at them with a knife, it makes you pause because if the cops did know

00:12:14.600 this history, you can understand their heightened sense of anxiety.

00:12:18.900 Not that they would have to know any of that.

00:12:20.280 If somebody is coming at you, you know nothing about him as in your police officer, he's got

00:12:23.640 a knife on you, uh, you are allowed, you're allowed to shoot.

00:12:26.640 You're allowed to shoot to kill if you have a reasonable fear for your bodily safety or

00:12:30.060 your life.

00:12:30.920 But okay.

00:12:31.540 So let me ask you, James, that you've got that that's breaking.

00:12:34.560 The other thing that broke this week that got a lot of play on Fox, but not, not really

00:12:38.320 elsewhere was this Tony Bubulinski who gave Tucker an exclusive interview.

00:12:43.400 And this is the guy who says he was in a business deal with Hunter Biden.

00:12:47.920 And he's specifically saying with Joe Biden, with this Chinese company, and they were trying

00:12:54.360 to form a deal where they were going to get 10 million bucks a year.

00:12:57.220 And he really is putting the allegations squarely on Joe Biden saying we did have direct dealings.

00:13:04.600 He was involved in this deal and his denials are not truthful.

00:13:09.720 What are your thoughts?

00:13:10.900 It's an important set of allegations.

00:13:14.040 It hasn't received, uh, the attention from mainstream media that it warrants or that similar

00:13:20.860 stories where a different ox, um, is receiving goring would have received or have received.

00:13:27.220 But, um, in essence, for the benefit of our listeners, um, Tony Bubulinski is a very wealthy

00:13:33.980 businessman, uh, to whom, uh, Hunter Biden and his associates reached out, uh, in 2015,

00:13:40.980 while the elder Biden was still serving as vice president and asked him to serve, asked

00:13:45.780 Mr. Bubulinski to serve as the CEO of a company, uh, that was preparing to do a very large

00:13:51.660 business deal with Chinese entities, specifically the Chinese state owned or state run

00:13:57.100 um, firm, uh, known as CFC.

00:13:59.980 It's an energy firm.

00:14:00.900 Uh, it is sort of equivalent, uh, to what Russia has with Gazprom.

00:14:05.200 Um, and this was a very lucrative deal, uh, by 2017, when Mr. Biden was no longer serving

00:14:13.080 as vice president, uh, Mr. Bubulinski had two meetings with, uh, Joe Biden about his son's,

00:14:19.640 uh, business dealings.

00:14:21.020 Uh, what's important is that vice president Biden does not deny that he met Tony Bubulinski.

00:14:25.500 Um, and there are a whole series of documents and, uh, corporate agreements and WhatsApp

00:14:30.880 chats and so forth that Mr. Bubulinski has preserved on various cell phone devices, which

00:14:36.680 are now said to be in the possession of the FBI following Mr. Bubulinski's interview last

00:14:41.400 Friday with the FBI.

00:14:42.580 And that's a very important detail.

00:14:43.980 Um, uh, the, the, the whole upshot of this is supposedly that, uh, according to Mr. Bubulinski,

00:14:50.500 it was well known to him, to his partners.

00:14:52.680 And although he never discussed it explicitly with the vice president known to Joe Biden,

00:14:57.120 that Joe Biden was to receive off the books, a 10% a cut from a $10 million deal that Mr.

00:15:04.860 Hunter Biden's company, along with Mr. Bubulinski were, were, were finalizing with this Chinese

00:15:09.840 energy giant.

00:15:11.340 Let me ask you this.

00:15:12.680 Let me jump in and ask you this.

00:15:14.140 One of the things that Bobby Linsky said in his interview on Fox was that he asked Jim

00:15:20.400 Biden, Joe Biden's brother, how are you guys getting away with this?

00:15:24.380 Aren't you concerned?

00:15:25.360 And that Jim chuckled in response and answered plausible deniability in response to which

00:15:31.220 I asked, what do they need to deny?

00:15:34.400 If he had already left office, I mean, it feels a little untoward doing this kind of

00:15:39.820 business with a Chinese company after you've been the vice president of the United States.

00:15:44.460 I get that, but no one's alleging that it's illegal.

00:15:46.800 Correct.

00:15:47.420 So what is, what would be the problem if all of this were true?

00:15:51.240 First of all, uh, the, uh, the comment that Bobby Linsky attributes to, uh, vice president

00:15:57.340 Biden's brother of plausible deniability for that so far, we have no recording or anything.

00:16:02.480 And presumably, uh, Jim Biden has plausible deniability to say that he ever said plausible deniability.

00:16:07.820 What's more important is the set of documents that Mr. Bobby Linsky has produced, uh, and

00:16:12.780 which include references to quote unquote, uh, Hunter saving 10% for the big guy.

00:16:17.800 Um, and the, and that, that reference to the big guy is not challenged by any of the number

00:16:22.960 of people who are on that email thread and email that was not generated by Mr. Bobby Linsky.

00:16:27.420 Uh, here's the core that the viewers and the voters should understand.

00:16:31.940 What is the nature of the charge that Mr. Bobby Linsky is making?

00:16:36.400 Um, as a, as far as I know, he is not alleging a criminal act by Joe or Hunter Biden, but,

00:16:43.340 uh, certainly if you're going to make charges against the Bidens at this stage of the campaign,

00:16:47.840 certainly there's a political character to the charge.

00:16:49.880 We understand that.

00:16:50.600 But the most important statement that Bobby Linsky made on the Tucker Carlson program the other night

00:16:55.360 was that he believes that Joe, uh, Biden is compromised by this in terms of being susceptible

00:17:02.080 to blackmail or pressure from the Chinese government.

00:17:05.180 Why would that be?

00:17:06.300 It doesn't necessarily require that Mr. Biden have committed a crime.

00:17:09.540 If Joe Biden stands on a debate stage in front of an audience of 15 or 17 million people

00:17:14.720 and, and denies having ever known, uh, anything at all about Hunter Biden's business dealings

00:17:20.440 denies, even having had an, what any father would have with his son is a normal conversation

00:17:25.320 about what's going on with your business affairs, et cetera.

00:17:27.620 You know, if you say publicly as, as the democratic presidential nominee, and then later you become

00:17:32.480 president, I never knew anything about Hunter Biden's business dealings.

00:17:36.380 And the Chinese themselves are in a position to expose that as a lie that could conceivably,

00:17:41.920 uh, subject the president of the United States to Chinese pressure, influence, or blackmail.

00:17:47.920 And so there is a national security component to Mr. Bobby Linsky's allegations that should be

00:17:53.940 of interest, certainly to all voters, but also to the mainstream news media.

00:17:57.960 That's interesting.

00:17:59.100 So if, if it's a lie, it's almost like it would have been better for him to say, if it's true,

00:18:04.040 I had a couple of meetings.

00:18:05.640 It didn't go anywhere.

00:18:07.400 You know, I was basically doing my son a solid by taking the meeting, but I was never going

00:18:11.060 to get involved.

00:18:11.560 And I was out of office at the time.

00:18:13.380 Yes.

00:18:13.860 And I was out of office, right.

00:18:14.960 That would have been better than if this is a lie lying and thereby giving the Chinese

00:18:20.500 something to hold over your head.

00:18:22.200 If you're to become the next president, because one set of documents and, uh, WhatsApp chats

00:18:27.440 or, or other digital evidence that we don't have access to right now is, is what was being

00:18:33.520 recorded about this set of Mac machinations by the Chinese themselves.

00:18:37.640 Um, and, um, how might they be, um, inclined to use that kind of information if Mr. Biden

00:18:44.940 should become president?

00:18:46.000 I think that's the crux of the issue that Bobulinski raises.

00:18:48.520 The last question on this, and then I'll move on.

00:18:50.460 I feel like the Russian disinformation lie has been proven.

00:18:53.800 I mean, like it's, it's obviously not true.

00:18:55.780 Bobulinski is he, are people alleging he's part of the Russian disinformation campaign?

00:18:59.860 Do we have any reason to believe this guy is just a fraudster looking to pour hot oil on,

00:19:04.040 you know, the, the, the beginning embers of a fire?

00:19:07.300 Um, I have found, uh, evidence that there is a, a large judgment, uh, of court fees and,

00:19:14.020 and, and, uh, and a sort of court order judgment that Mr. Bobulinski has not yet paid against

00:19:18.540 him, uh, to the tune of about $659,000.

00:19:22.220 But my understanding about Bobulinski is this is a man with his own airplane who's worth hundreds

00:19:26.100 of millions of dollars.

00:19:27.120 And for whom that judgment, um, is, um, in, in, in financial jargon, small potatoes.

00:19:34.120 Um, I think that, um, he doesn't need the publicity.

00:19:37.280 He doesn't need, he's not seeking to capitalize off on this as best I can tell.

00:19:42.180 Um, and he didn't come forward until they, they kept saying Russian disinformation, Russian

00:19:46.460 disinformation in the Senate conducted its hearing.

00:19:48.600 The director of national intelligence took the rare step of, uh, making a public statement

00:19:53.060 to the effect that the, that the set of allegations regarding Hunter Biden and his laptop and Mr.

00:19:57.340 Bobulinski and so forth is not, uh, the, the work of Russian disinformation.

00:20:01.620 I know.

00:20:02.260 It's like, it's obvious at this point, if the media had any sort of a soul, it would report

00:20:06.820 on the news, which is our job.

00:20:08.960 But of course they don't want Biden to get hurt and they don't want Trump to win and they

00:20:14.080 are behaving accordingly.

00:20:15.500 All right.

00:20:16.560 So speaking of not wanting Trump to win this week, we found out who quote anonymous was

00:20:22.920 and James knows a lot about this because not only has he been living in Washington for

00:20:27.220 a very long time, but he, he literally wrote the book on the Watergate era.

00:20:32.340 You're a good person to talk to about this and the reporting standards.

00:20:35.480 This guy, he came out under quote anonymous in a New York times op-ed and said, you know,

00:20:41.900 president Trump is dangerous and you guys can be assured you people of the world that

00:20:47.320 I am one of the senior advisors within the administration working diligently to frustrate

00:20:54.000 parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.

00:20:58.220 Um, and the New York times allowed him to describe himself that way.

00:21:01.760 They, they described him that way.

00:21:03.400 He came out later with a book, same thing, anonymous.

00:21:07.040 And now it turns out that like, he was basically some staffer in the department of Homeland security

00:21:13.420 when he wrote the op-ed and was really not a senior advisor.

00:21:18.140 And he's like this 33 year old wannabe to me.

00:21:23.260 And you've had everybody from CNN, Susan Hennessey.

00:21:26.460 She's their national security and legal analyst, and she has no right wing defender.

00:21:31.260 Jonathan Swan of Axios, Jay Caruso of the Washington Examiner.

00:21:34.160 He came out and put it, well, he said that this is 2020's Al Capone's vault.

00:21:37.760 Like there's no there, there.

00:21:39.060 This is the only scandal here is that the New York times allowed this guy to describe him

00:21:43.060 as a senior advisor within the administration.

00:21:46.040 And now that the mask is off, there has been a collective yawn and a bit of outrage that

00:21:51.860 we've all been taken down this rabbit hole for the past year following some kid who

00:21:56.020 apparently wants attention.

00:21:57.340 Your thoughts.

00:21:58.220 First, it will remain our secret, Megan, that you used a reference to Geraldo Rivera, our

00:22:03.700 dear friend and colleague from Fox News days, as a synonym for nothing burger.

00:22:08.680 I love him, but that was not the highlight of his career.

00:22:11.700 To the Al Capone vault, right.

00:22:13.560 I was shocked when the New York Times gave a space to this in the first place on its editorial

00:22:21.760 page.

00:22:22.320 But it is, again, a kind of a reflection of the tempo and temper of our times that the

00:22:28.840 paper of record would devote editorial page space to someone who had critical things to

00:22:35.480 say about the president of the United States and alleged to have some important role in

00:22:40.800 his administration, but was unwilling to disclose his name.

00:22:43.440 And I just, you know, I don't see what the journalistic value of that.

00:22:48.180 I never saw the journalistic value of that.

00:22:50.360 It made for clicks and it was buzzworthy.

00:22:53.880 And again, this is a reflection of our times.

00:22:56.580 But it's also an instance in which for all the criticism of President Trump and the way

00:23:00.820 he handles the news media, and of course, you have your own firsthand accounts to contribute

00:23:06.040 to that literature, you know, his enemies as well.

00:23:11.260 Those who those who wish to see him fail have descended to certain depths of conduct that

00:23:18.500 are that are equally unseemly, it seems to me.

00:23:21.580 And that was an example of it.

00:23:23.220 I feel like this is, you know, I live in New York City and every month or so the window

00:23:28.560 washers come by on the outside at great peril.

00:23:31.640 It seems like a very dangerous job.

00:23:33.700 And I feel like this would be the equivalent of one of them saying, I'm a Megyn Kelly, Doug

00:23:38.240 Brunt insider, and I can tell you what goes on in there.

00:23:41.440 You know, they they have dinners.

00:23:43.880 Sometimes they have cocktails.

00:23:45.220 They have children running about and whatever.

00:23:47.760 Like this guy was as much of an insider to Trump's inner circle as those guys are to

00:23:52.500 me in my home.

00:23:53.360 And I thought the New York Times did us all a disservice before I let you go on this, though.

00:23:57.300 Well, can I just play?

00:23:58.020 Because I do think listening to the guy deny that he was, quote, anonymous on CNN.

00:24:04.380 Oh, by the way, where he's a contributor.

00:24:07.200 I wonder what they're going to do now, because, of course, he was working against the administration

00:24:11.340 from the inside when he was there.

00:24:12.940 And he lied to them on air in this interview with Anderson Cooper.

00:24:16.160 And I tell you, my people, you tell me whether you can tell this guy's a liar when Anderson

00:24:21.600 asks him, are you anonymous?

00:24:23.420 Listen, there was a book by someone calling themselves anonymous.

00:24:27.060 Are you aware of who that is?

00:24:30.780 I'm not.

00:24:31.640 Look, and I that was a parlor game that happened in Washington, D.C. of a lot of folks trying

00:24:36.160 to think of who that might be.

00:24:38.400 I've got my own thoughts about who that might be.

00:24:41.300 But, you know, I want you're not a president.

00:24:43.820 And I certainly don't want to.

00:24:44.660 I wear a mask for two things, Anderson, Halloween's and pandemics.

00:24:50.780 So, no.

00:24:51.820 Yeah, that's a lie.

00:24:53.320 Oh, so clearly a lie, right?

00:24:55.340 That's a flat out lie.

00:24:56.740 When you say when you're asked if you have any idea who is this person and you later tell

00:25:00.960 us you were that person, you should have a very good idea of who that person is.

00:25:04.700 And to say that you don't is a lie.

00:25:07.300 My fear is that the worst sanction that will befall Miles Taylor as a result of this is

00:25:13.320 a an extension of his CNN contract and be an additional book contract.

00:25:17.360 Well, I mean, didn't they just hire Peter Stroke of the FBI?

00:25:20.060 So it's like I don't think CNN's standards are all that high on who they who they hire

00:25:23.980 as contributors.

00:25:24.420 But I'll tell you, having taken Phil Houston, the former CIA, he got he created their deception

00:25:29.740 detection class and methods.

00:25:32.360 He was there for twenty five years, half of which he spent investigating whether bad

00:25:36.340 guys overseas were trying to get us and half of which he spent trying to figure out whether

00:25:39.860 our guys here in the States had turned on us.

00:25:42.740 And this guy, he all my staff on the Kelly file and I took his class.

00:25:47.900 He offered it to us.

00:25:48.700 It was super fun.

00:25:49.520 And by the way, you should buy his books by the lie.

00:25:51.340 I have no no stake in this.

00:25:53.660 But he he talks about how deflection.

00:25:56.780 Right.

00:25:56.960 The guy immediately was like, this is a D.C., you know, that parlor game going on.

00:26:01.900 And and then the second thing is you're not.

00:26:04.620 I wear two masks.

00:26:06.640 Right.

00:26:06.820 If I said to you, let me let me try to play this game with you, James.

00:26:10.260 Did you rob a bank on Monday?

00:26:12.780 I want to conjure for your listeners the image of me consulting with my attorney and covering

00:26:16.440 the microphone.

00:26:17.040 And now I'm returning to say I did not, Mr. Chairman.

00:26:22.240 It's so simple.

00:26:23.660 You know, when you're telling the truth, it sounds very simple.

00:26:26.360 No, I didn't.

00:26:27.120 And then I don't go into what he what Phil Houston calls convincing behavior.

00:26:31.220 Like I would never rob a bank.

00:26:33.160 I'm a good person.

00:26:34.260 I the only reason I ever go into a bank is to make a depositor withdrawal.

00:26:37.800 This guy with the the only reason I wear masks is I mean, if that doesn't scream liar,

00:26:43.060 liar, liar.

00:26:43.720 I like I don't know what does.

00:26:45.060 I don't watch CNN.

00:26:46.020 I didn't see that loser on there.

00:26:47.580 So I missed it the first time.

00:26:48.960 But now that I look at it, I'm like, oh, my God, it was obvious.

00:26:51.540 It was obvious.

00:26:51.960 It's a flat lie and you don't even have to go to the alleged convincing behavior when

00:26:56.660 you say you have no idea who the person is.

00:26:59.000 And later you tell us it was you.

00:27:00.880 That's a lie.

00:27:02.040 Yeah.

00:27:02.440 But my point is, it was detectable.

00:27:04.500 If you read Phil Houston, all lies, most of them anyway, are detectable at the moment

00:27:09.860 they are told and convincing behavior is one of them or deflection is another DC parlor

00:27:14.960 game, DC parlor game.

00:27:16.600 OK, James Rosen, great to have you here.

00:27:18.680 Great to talk to you.

00:27:19.740 Thank you, Megan.

00:27:20.500 Great to hear your voice again.

00:27:21.960 See you soon.

00:27:28.440 And our thanks to James Rosen for being here.

00:27:30.520 In one second, we're going to be joined by Kim Klasik.

00:27:33.840 I am so excited for her.

00:27:35.260 She's running for Congress down in Maryland, and she is the one who got all over the view,

00:27:40.620 in particular, Joy Behar and Sonny Hostin.

00:27:43.540 Remember, she brought up Joy's black face and Sonny tried to shout her down about the black

00:27:48.140 community.

00:27:48.700 And Kim was like, oh, no.

00:27:49.740 So anyway, it was a great viral moment.

00:27:52.300 And she's raising money like nobody's business, saying the GOP should be competing for the

00:27:59.140 black vote in places like Baltimore and other places.

00:28:02.380 And she's got some good insights.

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00:29:44.880 Okay.

00:29:45.960 And now, Kim Klasick.

00:29:48.500 Kim is a 38-year-old wife, mother of a four-year-old child, Maryland native.

00:29:54.900 And she has spent the past several years helping underserved women to become financially independent.

00:30:01.920 She runs a nonprofit.

00:30:03.540 And she is trying to do the impossible, folks, which is take over a seat that has not been

00:30:09.740 held by a Republican in 57 years.

00:30:14.060 Kim, thank you for being here.

00:30:15.300 Thanks for having me.

00:30:16.180 I appreciate it.

00:30:16.920 This was Elijah Cummings' old seat, and it's never been held by a Republican.

00:30:22.800 So what makes you think, why not me?

00:30:26.040 Yeah.

00:30:26.960 Well, you know, it all started about, I guess it was July 2019.

00:30:31.640 I don't know if you recall, but I had posted some videos online of the trash and the blight

00:30:36.580 in Baltimore.

00:30:37.980 The president saw it and retweeted it.

00:30:39.600 And then it came out as like a tweet storm between himself and the late Conor Smith-Hummings.

00:30:45.480 And so from there, I think it started to really open up, I guess, a can of worms.

00:30:50.920 And our local newspaper actually did some investigation.

00:30:54.000 And they're as liberal as can be.

00:30:55.980 But they said, look, you know, if you live in certain neighborhoods in Baltimore City,

00:30:59.860 your trash is not collected.

00:31:01.860 And if it is, it's collected 5% of the time versus other neighborhoods where it's collected

00:31:06.880 100% of the time, no matter how much you call.

00:31:09.600 And so I think that's what a lot of people in the neighborhoods were starting to feel.

00:31:13.000 And that is specifically in West Baltimore, where you see it in my campaign ad.

00:31:17.540 But yeah, so I kind of really started to take a look at what was going on.

00:31:22.500 It was clearly something with local leadership.

00:31:24.980 And then when they went before city council to talk about the fact that this is Department

00:31:28.540 of Public Works, they said, look, we need more money to be able to pick up the trash.

00:31:32.480 And so, you know, it was interesting because after President Trump did his tweet storm and

00:31:36.820 put their feet to the fire, they actually ended up going from 77,000 open sanitation cases to

00:31:42.840 260 without any additional funding.

00:31:46.600 So what that meant to me was they have the funding.

00:31:49.300 They're just not getting it done.

00:31:51.000 So they don't do it if they want to.

00:31:53.520 Well, that just turned into a bit.

00:31:54.620 I mean, you really did have a massive impact.

00:31:56.500 I remember that video.

00:31:57.360 And I lived in Baltimore for a couple of years, right down on Fells Point, like in the city.

00:32:02.280 And I know exactly what you mean.

00:32:03.500 If you live down in that area, one little area is good.

00:32:06.060 And the next street over is very dangerous.

00:32:08.760 And, you know, West Baltimore is very dicey in parts.

00:32:11.780 And there's some gang activity and so on and so forth.

00:32:14.220 So, you know, they're between the crime and the trash.

00:32:16.980 By the way, New York City is heading the same way.

00:32:20.000 You went down there and actually show people, look, this is a problem.

00:32:22.720 And this is a Democrat run city, has been for a very long time, both locally and at the

00:32:27.100 federal level.

00:32:28.100 And something ought to be done.

00:32:29.020 And you showed some of the infestation down there with rats and rodents, which, by the

00:32:33.200 way, I also experienced firsthand.

00:32:35.060 We lived in that particular home for one year.

00:32:38.440 And in that one year alone, just one year, I personally killed 21 mice.

00:32:43.320 Oh, my gosh.

00:32:44.460 Which I found out they like peanut butter better than cheese, just FYI.

00:32:50.940 Life's lessons.

00:32:51.680 So Trump, Trump takes notice of this and he tweets it out and he calls Baltimore an infested

00:32:58.780 mess, infested with rats and rodents.

00:33:01.120 And this was one of the and he got in a back and forth with Elijah Cummins, who said, come

00:33:05.100 down here, Cummins.

00:33:06.040 And, you know, you insulted my town.

00:33:07.580 And, you know, Trump's like, look at the videotape.

00:33:10.480 Right.

00:33:11.180 All these people who are Trump critics are like racist.

00:33:14.420 He's a racist.

00:33:15.420 He called Baltimore infested.

00:33:17.200 And I'm like, don't they see what happened here?

00:33:20.060 A black woman who is from Maryland in Baltimore County, if not the city, went there and did

00:33:26.880 actual reporting with videotape.

00:33:29.320 She showed us what was there.

00:33:30.900 And then President Trump picked up on it.

00:33:32.860 What was your reaction when people responded to him that way?

00:33:36.420 Yeah.

00:33:36.800 So, of course, at first I was thinking this is such fake news because I knew what President

00:33:41.400 Trump had tweeted out was actually verbatim of the young woman that I interviewed on the

00:33:46.640 street when she was telling me about it.

00:33:47.900 And this is a black woman.

00:33:49.560 You know, our former mayor, Mayor Pugh, she said the same exact things.

00:33:53.380 Bernie Sanders came to town during the 2015 riots called a third world country.

00:33:57.560 So all of these Democrats have said, you know, similar stuff.

00:34:01.320 But as soon as it was President Trump, even though it wasn't his words, yeah, they called

00:34:05.660 him a racist, a white supremacist and all those words that we don't seem to know any meaning

00:34:10.740 to.

00:34:10.980 So, but no.

00:34:12.320 So, you know, I thought, OK, well, you know, I'm going to keep going forward.

00:34:16.580 And, you know, in that amount of time, I think, gosh, Congressman Elijah Cummings passed

00:34:22.560 away in October of 2019.

00:34:25.280 And then, you know, people started throwing their hat in the ring.

00:34:28.560 We had 24 Democrats that threw it in on their side, seven Republicans.

00:34:32.180 And I thought, you know what?

00:34:33.220 If I'm already out here doing this, why don't I just give it a shot?

00:34:35.620 Wow, I think that's great.

00:34:38.320 And I know Trump retweeted something about you and the coffers got filled with millions

00:34:43.260 and millions of dollars, a lot more than other local Republicans have gotten.

00:34:47.360 So it's it's good for you, although the polls are not so good for you.

00:34:51.320 I mean, the independent analysis is you're going to you're going to it's not going to

00:34:56.340 go well because the other guy had 75 percent support in the special election and he's the

00:35:00.800 former president of the NAACP.

00:35:02.360 And, you know, because it's never been held by a Republican.

00:35:04.480 That's really it's like, how can you how can you fight City Hall?

00:35:07.820 But what do you think?

00:35:08.660 I mean, does does that get you down?

00:35:10.160 Do you see that realistically or how are you feeling about it?

00:35:13.540 No.

00:35:13.820 So, you know, at this point, I've been running for office for an entire year.

00:35:16.880 Right.

00:35:17.180 We've had four elections in this year because of the special and in the general.

00:35:20.720 And for us, we've been polling a little bit higher.

00:35:23.780 He's actually swinging a little lower and we've raised a total of seven point three million

00:35:28.520 compared to I think he's right under one million.

00:35:31.320 So we've been doing a lot of advertising, a lot of digital.

00:35:34.740 I mean, I feel like I film a commercial every day at this point.

00:35:38.580 But, you know, we're out there and I've been meeting with local leaders, local pastors,

00:35:43.360 which, you know, is not something typically a Republican is able to do.

00:35:46.660 So we sat down with a group of pastors and they're like, look, we know your opponent.

00:35:51.500 He was in office since 1987 to 1996 before Congressman Cummings took over and he did not

00:35:57.180 deliver on his promises and were open to other options.

00:36:00.780 So we've just been meeting with people, talking.

00:36:02.880 We go door to door seven days a week.

00:36:04.660 We registered voters five days a week.

00:36:06.540 We ended up registering, I think it was over 650 people in West Baltimore alone, which

00:36:12.200 is interesting because they have like the most to gain and the most to lose.

00:36:15.760 But I did talk about like in my RNC convention speech, you know, Republicans have to do better

00:36:20.040 at getting out there and, you know, going in these areas, especially the inner cities where

00:36:24.380 you think that people only vote down ballot for Democrats, because I feel like we're leaving

00:36:28.940 it on the table.

00:36:29.540 Have they given up on the black vote?

00:36:30.860 Right.

00:36:31.060 It's clear that most most black voters vote Democrat.

00:36:34.500 This is one of Candace Owens is big thing, which is like Blexit, you know, stop doing

00:36:37.920 that as assess these candidates individually and figure out whether it's working for you.

00:36:42.260 And you're you're in a way saying the same thing, which is you go court the black vote.

00:36:48.280 You're saying it on the other side to the Republicans, go court the black vote, work for

00:36:51.780 it, earn it.

00:36:53.100 Yeah, absolutely.

00:36:53.960 And I even tell people, you know, even if it is, you know, you want to be a Democrat

00:36:58.140 and that's where you feel you align when you have that one party mob rule, you know,

00:37:02.400 they completely take your vote for granted and they never get anything done or accomplished

00:37:06.680 because they know you're going to continue to vote for them.

00:37:09.420 So we just, you know, try to open people's minds, you know, this entire campaign trail

00:37:13.440 and we think it's paying off a little bit.

00:37:15.900 Like I said, we're swinging up, he's swinging down.

00:37:18.280 And I think we're fairly close.

00:37:20.160 I have to say, I've been sort of appalled at the way I've seen you get treated as if you

00:37:26.720 were a Democrat, of course, you'd be celebrated in every, at every turn, right?

00:37:29.300 A young black woman who's been helping the underprivileged, deciding to run for office,

00:37:32.700 a young mom, but because you have a, an R after your name, instead of a D you're, you,

00:37:37.180 you get maligned, unfairly maligned.

00:37:39.000 And one of the examples that jumped out to me was this Maryland matters, uh, which is

00:37:44.140 trying to help the Dems.

00:37:45.420 And, and here's the quote, Kim, they're talking about the money that you earned saying it must

00:37:49.560 be the envy of Republican candidates from coast to coast.

00:37:52.020 And here's the quote, but is that the best use of GOP donors money or does it just make

00:37:58.560 Trump partisans feel good to support a camera ready black woman who employs rhetoric reminiscent

00:38:04.860 of the president's?

00:38:06.460 You know what?

00:38:07.000 I read that same article and that's where I was like, really camera ready black woman.

00:38:12.960 I mean, that is so offensive.

00:38:14.660 Yeah.

00:38:15.080 But no one, no one says anything about it.

00:38:17.000 You're right.

00:38:17.420 No one seems to care when you're a Republican, unfortunately.

00:38:19.880 That's exactly right.

00:38:20.560 Can I tell you sexism against Republican women and racism against, um, black Republicans

00:38:27.160 is considered okay by the left.

00:38:29.000 Those are the two things the woke left doesn't care.

00:38:31.160 Yep.

00:38:31.560 Absolutely.

00:38:32.380 And it's, you know, I guess at this point, you know, I've been doing it so long now that

00:38:36.340 it doesn't faze me as much, but I mean, it is quite ridiculous.

00:38:40.320 You see, you know, AOC is on the cover of vanity fair.

00:38:44.040 Um, and here I am being crucified just because I don't align with the Democrat party.

00:38:48.020 Mm-hmm.

00:38:49.020 And that, and that came to a front on, on the view, right?

00:38:53.100 That was like, that's where I think a lot of the nation first came to see you and know

00:38:57.460 you.

00:38:58.060 And of course, I'm not a big fan of the ladies on the view.

00:39:01.100 I'm just not.

00:39:01.780 I just think it's like, it's just so nasty and toxic on that set.

00:39:05.520 I could, I could feel it from my home couch.

00:39:08.860 So, but you're running for office.

00:39:10.180 So you got to go make the round.

00:39:11.120 So you go on the view and they're all over you trying to get you to condemn Trump and

00:39:16.360 say bad things about Trump.

00:39:17.320 And you were not there for it.

00:39:19.680 Okay.

00:39:19.900 So here, here's the clip.

00:39:21.700 It's you, Joy Behar and Sonny Hostin jumps in.

00:39:25.240 Let's listen.

00:39:26.300 Come on, Kim.

00:39:27.240 Excuse me.

00:39:27.840 I have to say something to you.

00:39:29.660 He told Bob Woodward that it was a very serious issue and it's airborne and that it was terrible.

00:39:35.700 And then he went out and told the American people, don't wear masks.

00:39:38.300 It's all going to go away.

00:39:39.900 You have to put some blame on your president.

00:39:41.660 I'm sorry.

00:39:42.440 You're putting it on something extraneous here.

00:39:45.240 Talk to the point, please.

00:39:47.280 Is this, is this Joy speaking?

00:39:48.980 The same Joy?

00:39:50.380 The same Joy that paraded around in blackface not too long ago?

00:39:54.500 Come on, Joy.

00:39:54.960 I don't think you should be asking these questions.

00:39:56.760 I am a African-American.

00:39:58.300 Excuse me.

00:39:59.460 The black community had my back.

00:40:02.200 They know that that was not blackface.

00:40:04.420 That was an homage.

00:40:05.780 Oh, please.

00:40:06.640 Just answer the question.

00:40:07.360 The black community has my back as well.

00:40:07.740 The black community has your back?

00:40:10.180 The black community has your back?

00:40:11.660 Yes, they do.

00:40:12.200 Sonny, yes.

00:40:12.680 The black community did not vote for you.

00:40:14.840 The black community did not vote for you.

00:40:17.180 It was during a special election.

00:40:19.700 Sonny, can I speak?

00:40:20.780 What planet are you living on?

00:40:22.520 It was during a special election while we were still under lockdown and I could not talk to people.

00:40:28.600 Can I speak or are you just going to speak over me?

00:40:30.480 This becomes a big, listen, Kim, good luck to you.

00:40:33.240 Thanks to Kim Klaasen.

00:40:33.960 That was very immature, but thank you for having me.

00:40:38.180 Unbelievable.

00:40:39.220 There's so much going on for me in that clip.

00:40:41.320 I mean, a lot is going on for obvious reasons, but I'm I find it infuriating and fury.

00:40:47.680 And I thought your tweet afterward was was great.

00:40:49.820 It was something to the effect of what what's up with the silencing of black voices?

00:40:53.820 I thought we were all about letting, you know, black black people be heard, except go to exception

00:40:59.800 number number one, unless they're Republicans.

00:41:02.300 Yeah, absolutely.

00:41:03.940 And this is at a time where I don't know if you remember the trend win with black women,

00:41:09.360 that hashtag.

00:41:10.520 This is when this was all going on.

00:41:12.140 So, you know, black women coming for running for office was supposed to be this great thing.

00:41:15.580 But again, I'm a Republican.

00:41:17.740 But yeah, that was interesting to me.

00:41:19.320 I had Joy Behar trying to explain to me that the black me had her back.

00:41:23.280 You know, I am a black woman.

00:41:25.000 I'm like, no, I'm definitely, you know, I'm a part of this black community that you're

00:41:29.840 talking about, but I definitely didn't have your back.

00:41:33.120 And it was interesting because there were a lot of people that were on Twitter that said,

00:41:35.680 you know, Joy, what you said wasn't right because, you know, you've accused other people

00:41:39.700 of blackface or, you know, even just talking about black, blackface and, and you would

00:41:44.940 always condemn them.

00:41:45.880 So, you know, for her to say it was an homage, it was, it was interesting.

00:41:49.200 To me, that was such crazy town because you, I love that you brought it up because of course,

00:41:53.920 we saw Don Jr.

00:41:54.820 bring it up one time.

00:41:55.740 And other than that, you were, I think you were the only two people to ever raise that

00:41:58.680 with her.

00:41:59.040 And she's gotten away with it scot-free, even though she wore blackface on Halloween and

00:42:04.860 she celebrated it on the air with ABC's blessing as recently as 2016.

00:42:11.040 She put up the picture, her producers, the executives, her co-hosts were fine with it.

00:42:16.440 She put it up there and it was like, there's me wearing blackface to celebrate.

00:42:20.480 You know, I went as a beautiful African woman and, and now she says it's not blackface.

00:42:25.460 And, and Whoopi Goldberg was like, that, that wasn't blackface.

00:42:29.140 She said that when Don Jr.

00:42:30.200 brought it up, it's like, well, she tinted her skin to look like an African-American woman.

00:42:33.920 So what, what the hell is blackface?

00:42:36.180 I mean, like, I can't keep it straight, Kim, you know, like, and then joy was like, it was

00:42:41.200 an homage.

00:42:42.100 In other words, if you mean to honor, it shouldn't be problematic, which is exactly the question

00:42:47.480 I was trying to ask over on NBC when all help broke loose.

00:42:49.960 So I, I just loved that you had the guts to bring it up.

00:42:54.380 Thank you.

00:42:54.680 And that is the first thing I thought about was when you were just asking, could people

00:42:59.460 do that for Halloween and they crucified you.

00:43:02.480 And I'm like, and here he is, she is, she's just defending it.

00:43:05.520 And then you have Sonny screaming over me.

00:43:07.820 Um, it was interesting because the question that she was asking, I had literally just

00:43:11.460 answered it three minutes prior before the commercial break.

00:43:14.360 And she just didn't like the answer.

00:43:15.920 So she got hostile.

00:43:17.180 And, you know, I told my mom before going on there, I wasn't going to say anything mean.

00:43:21.680 I wasn't going to get in the fight, but I just felt like they kept pressing me.

00:43:25.080 And this was my one shot really to, to reach the other side of the aisles audience.

00:43:29.780 Cause you know, I'm not able to go on CNN or MSNBC.

00:43:32.560 They never allow me to come on.

00:43:34.240 So I felt, you know what?

00:43:35.660 I, I definitely have to go and I have to make sure, um, I reached that other audience.

00:43:41.080 If I'm going to flip a plus 26 democratic district.

00:43:44.920 Well, and can I tell you, it's not like you went on there and just started launching

00:43:49.100 bombs at everybody.

00:43:50.100 She was all over you.

00:43:51.960 She was nasty.

00:43:53.260 She confronted you in a hostile, nasty way.

00:43:56.320 And she, she drew first blood.

00:43:58.200 So you were well within your rights to punch her right back.

00:44:00.680 And the contempt for you that was oozing from Sonny Hostin contempt.

00:44:06.960 She clearly loathed you in your position and wasn't afraid to show it.

00:44:11.480 And my thinking is then why have her on?

00:44:13.920 Why?

00:44:14.360 If I loathe the guests like that, I wouldn't invite them on.

00:44:17.440 I, I, I would know it'd be a bad interview that would make me look bad.

00:44:21.280 I could, did you feel the same?

00:44:22.800 Like the way she tried to explain to you how the black community feels about you?

00:44:27.820 Yeah.

00:44:28.340 So I personally, after, you know, getting more facts from it, I think it was a total setup.

00:44:33.240 I think I, I know they said, um, uh, Megan McCain said she, I was her guest.

00:44:39.040 Um, but I don't think that was true because I later found out that Sonny was childhood

00:44:43.300 friends with our former mayor here in Baltimore, uh, Stephanie Rawlings, Blake, they grew up

00:44:48.160 together.

00:44:48.540 And so I thought this is interesting.

00:44:51.340 Right.

00:44:52.200 Uh, because she really, I I've never spoken to Sonny ever before.

00:44:55.720 I'd never tweeted at her.

00:44:57.080 I don't know anything really about her.

00:44:58.820 And so, you know, when I learned that information after the fact, I was like, okay, this makes

00:45:03.020 more sense.

00:45:03.880 You know, here I am starting to creep up in the polls.

00:45:06.920 Here I am starting to make a heck of a lot more money.

00:45:09.380 Um, and they see that.

00:45:10.600 And I think it was really an attack to try to get me completely out of the race.

00:45:15.000 That, that is exactly right.

00:45:18.140 Can I tell you something, a story early in my career?

00:45:21.640 I, I don't know.

00:45:22.600 I think I was a young anchor at Fox and I started to get attacked by the media.

00:45:27.280 And when it first starts happening, you're, it's a little jarring.

00:45:30.840 You're like, what, what did I do?

00:45:32.080 Why did, why did so many people suddenly dislike me?

00:45:33.960 I don't, I don't understand.

00:45:34.880 And I went to a party at Rush Limbaugh's house down in Palm beach.

00:45:40.280 He was celebrating, I think like 25 or 30 years on the air throughout through this big

00:45:43.800 bash.

00:45:44.160 And there were a bunch of us there and I was talking to him about it.

00:45:47.580 I was pretty green.

00:45:48.820 And he said, MK, it's because you're effective.

00:45:53.220 If you weren't effective, they would ignore you.

00:45:56.340 And Kim, I say the same thing to you.

00:45:59.280 You're a threat because you're so effective in your messaging.

00:46:03.100 The way you talk about these issues, they know it's persuasive.

00:46:07.160 And I think they find it scary.

00:46:08.940 And that makes you the enemy who has to be stopped.

00:46:12.820 Well, thank you.

00:46:13.800 I think I appreciate that.

00:46:15.480 And I hope that, you know, our message is resonating, but, you know, I guess we'll see.

00:46:20.340 It's just interesting to me because, you know, the people that hate me the most, they don't

00:46:23.980 live in these dangerous areas of Baltimore.

00:46:25.560 You know, a lot of them are usually white women or women that are completely, you know, not

00:46:31.480 even attached to the situation.

00:46:33.480 And I just can't understand it.

00:46:35.360 I'm just like, you know, let me help the predominantly black neighborhoods in Baltimore that have been

00:46:40.540 neglected by the Democrat leadership.

00:46:42.000 And let me move on with my life.

00:46:43.960 No, don't you understand that it's my neighbors up here on the Upper West Side of Manhattan,

00:46:47.960 my white liberal neighbors who know better?

00:46:50.840 I don't.

00:46:51.320 How have you not picked that up yet?

00:46:52.920 I don't.

00:46:53.500 Hello.

00:46:54.200 All right.

00:46:54.420 So what's going to happen now?

00:46:55.420 I what do you think is going to happen for Donald Trump next week?

00:46:58.560 Because, I mean, look, as much as he has tried to reach out for some black vote and contends

00:47:03.660 that he's going to win it and, you know, black unemployment was at record lows prior to

00:47:07.580 covid, we all know that the black vote is overwhelmingly going to go to Joe Biden.

00:47:13.120 You ain't black if you don't support Joe Biden.

00:47:14.940 That's another lesson that you should take from from the white population.

00:47:19.040 So what do you actually think is going to happen on Tuesday, separate and apart from what

00:47:23.160 you want?

00:47:23.580 Yeah, so I think President Trump is going to win.

00:47:26.540 I think that comment Joe Biden made about fracking is going to hurt him in Pennsylvania.

00:47:30.960 I was in Arizona not too long ago.

00:47:32.880 I know people keep saying it's a purple state, but I do believe it's going to go towards Trump.

00:47:37.140 And I think, you know, if he gets across in Florida, like I think he will.

00:47:41.000 And I know, you know, blue's a very, you know, Maryland's a very blue state.

00:47:44.240 But, you know, we're out there knocking doors.

00:47:45.960 We say, look, just let's just be honest.

00:47:48.140 You know, President Trump is offering the five hundred billion dollars to invest in opportunity

00:47:52.280 zones.

00:47:52.700 He did the criminal justice for him and HBCUs.

00:47:55.300 And I tell people Joe Biden hasn't offered a single thing, you know, so if you want to

00:48:00.180 bet the vote in your best interest, you would vote classic Trump.

00:48:03.360 And I think some people are starting to see that.

00:48:06.000 If it doesn't work out for you on Tuesday, because the odds are so stacked against you,

00:48:09.000 but you have made a national name for yourself.

00:48:11.300 So clearly there's a lot of support for you and your future.

00:48:14.660 What else would you like to do?

00:48:16.100 Could you see yourself if Trump wins the second term joining the administration?

00:48:19.720 Yeah, so I you probably already know Jerron Smith over there.

00:48:23.840 We've talked about it.

00:48:25.420 He said, you know, if Trump gets back in, you know, it might be worth trying to figure something

00:48:30.240 out because he's talking about bringing manufacturing back to Baltimore City.

00:48:33.280 And that's that's my big push, you know, right through the Baltimore City port.

00:48:36.700 We're not utilizing it.

00:48:38.100 You know, we used to be a manufacturing powerhouse.

00:48:40.040 We could do on the job pay training.

00:48:42.040 It's so easy, so simple.

00:48:43.800 And I think he definitely wants to do that.

00:48:45.640 So if I don't win by any chance, I will hopefully still be involved more in implementing

00:48:50.000 just higher paying jobs to get people through this crime, the violence, the poor education,

00:48:55.660 everything that it's been played with.

00:48:57.300 Well, it's very clear you're at the beginning of a superstar career, and I'm looking forward

00:49:01.220 to watching it.

00:49:02.020 All the best.

00:49:02.500 You came.

00:49:02.780 Good luck.

00:49:03.300 Thank you.

00:49:03.820 Thank you so much.

00:49:06.580 And our thanks again to Kim Klasik.

00:49:08.240 She was amazing.

00:49:08.920 Up in a minute, we're going to be joined by Democrat Doug Schoen, who's got the latest

00:49:12.600 on the polls and whether we should trust them.

00:49:15.780 But first, I want to talk to you about ZipRecruiter.

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00:50:37.760 The smartest way to hire.

00:50:39.500 And now, we're going to get to our guest in one second, but I have to bring you this

00:50:42.920 feature, which we love here at the Megyn Kelly Show, called Sound Up.

00:50:47.220 And this is where we're going to play you a couple of sound bites that have made the news

00:50:49.760 or that have struck our notice that we thought were kind of interesting or funny or that we

00:50:54.480 had a reaction to.

00:50:55.180 And this one is the reactions to Amy Coney Barrett being confirmed as the fifth woman

00:51:02.400 to ever serve on the U.S. Supreme Court.

00:51:05.380 As you know, she got through this week, 52 to 48 partisan lines, but she is officially

00:51:10.240 a Supreme Court associate justice.

00:51:12.440 And people on the left are not happy about it.

00:51:15.040 Now, can I tell you something?

00:51:16.200 I think I've said this before.

00:51:17.340 If I were the president, I would be picking jurists who are more along the originalist line

00:51:23.380 of thinking, like Amy Coney Barrett, like Scalia.

00:51:25.800 I loved Scalia.

00:51:27.620 It doesn't necessarily mean I'm totally aligned with them politically, but as a jurist, that's

00:51:31.460 the way I think about the law.

00:51:33.120 Nonetheless, had I been a senator, I would have voted for Ruth Bader Ginsburg, for Elena

00:51:37.360 Kagan, and for Sonia Sotomayor.

00:51:39.280 Totally, totally qualified, amazing, brilliant jurists.

00:51:43.720 And the way our system works is the sitting president gets to appoint the justice and the

00:51:47.120 Senate confirms or doesn't confirm, but historically has always confirmed unless you're really

00:51:50.760 a hot mess or totally unqualified.

00:51:53.680 You remember GWB had to withdraw Harriet Myers because people were like, oh, no.

00:51:57.660 OK, so anyway, not everybody feels the way I do.

00:52:01.020 And some of the sound in reaction to Amy Coney Barrett has been hysterical and actually makes

00:52:07.240 me wonder about the strength of our country.

00:52:09.400 Here's just the one because I love listening to this woman who, when she found out that RBG

00:52:13.280 had died, totally lost it.

00:52:15.820 Remember this lady?

00:52:16.380 Holy fucking shit, you guys!

00:52:19.600 I'm driving you to Clara, but I just got a notification that Ruth Bader Ginsburg died!

00:52:26.600 Fuck!

00:52:28.000 Could this year get any fucking worse?!

00:52:32.300 She's very angry.

00:52:35.920 And then she goes on to say like, Ruth, you only had to make it to 2021!

00:52:40.780 As though her dying was like a punitive response to something someone on the left had said,

00:52:46.340 you know, as though Ruth didn't realize she needed to hold on longer.

00:52:48.780 If only she had spoken to this woman.

00:52:50.940 It's just people have lost their minds.

00:52:53.400 So now, not surprisingly, we get more hysterical reaction to the fact that Coney Barrett has

00:52:58.100 been confirmed.

00:52:59.480 I give you this woman in a bathtub.

00:53:02.240 And if you can see this, if you see the soundbite online, she's made cuts to it.

00:53:07.660 She's clearly tried to produce it for maximum effect.

00:53:11.380 But what she wants you to believe is that she's absolutely devastated.

00:53:17.440 And you just happen to catch her on camera in the bathtub saying the following.

00:53:20.440 Don't mind me, I'm in the bath, but while I'm in here, I got a notification that Amy Coney Barrett

00:53:36.420 was officially confirmed to the Supreme Court.

00:53:42.260 I didn't think I'd be this affected by it, but I'm scared.

00:53:52.140 I'm scared for me, other women, people who need help.

00:54:00.200 Everyone except white men.

00:54:02.960 So, um, please vote next week.

00:54:06.760 Let's try to do something.

00:54:09.100 All right.

00:54:10.220 Sister, you need to get it together.

00:54:11.600 You cannot let any politician or Supreme Court justice affect your life like that.

00:54:18.180 Only white men.

00:54:19.400 They're the only ones who Amy Coney Barrett will support in her rulings from the bench.

00:54:23.580 That's absurd.

00:54:25.120 It's idiocy.

00:54:26.640 And the way you know that this was all a performance is that she kept it in that

00:54:30.880 sotto voce the whole time.

00:54:34.020 She kept it rolling.

00:54:35.220 People, when they're normally upset, don't sound like that.

00:54:37.140 They don't talk like that.

00:54:38.000 And they don't whip out an iPhone in the bathtub.

00:54:39.780 So they, you know, for maximum effect, and they don't have cuts to their video so they

00:54:43.780 can restart their tears.

00:54:45.300 So I don't know what sort of performance art this is, but I reject it.

00:54:48.900 And I don't want to say she's in third place, this last gal, because I think they're all

00:54:52.060 kind of tied for first.

00:54:53.380 Although, no, to be truthful, that first lady with a foul mouth is my favorite.

00:54:56.240 But here's the third condemning all, all life with a uterus as a result of this.

00:55:01.240 I mean, like, are you worried for our country?

00:55:16.600 Are you as worried as I am?

00:55:18.120 This cannot be the next generation of strong women.

00:55:20.440 It cannot.

00:55:21.100 Let's remember Kim Klasik.

00:55:22.540 Let's go back to Kim.

00:55:24.460 Strong and not a snowflake.

00:55:26.500 She's screaming into her pillow.

00:55:27.880 This woman, why did I have to have a uterus?

00:55:29.380 As though Roe versus Wade has been thrown out and every state in the union has ruled

00:55:33.320 abortion illegal and unconstitutional.

00:55:35.960 People do any studying to understand how that would have to happen?

00:55:39.040 How many insanely huge things would have to happen before that that would happen?

00:55:44.260 I mean, honestly, they're looking at Amy Coney Barrett like she's the Antichrist.

00:55:48.580 It's ridiculous.

00:55:50.400 And people need to grow up and do their homework.

00:55:53.420 Anyway, OK, I just thought we'd take that little trip down Insanity Lane together.

00:55:56.940 And now for some sanity and a trip back to Earth, Doug Schoen.

00:56:05.020 Joining us now is one of my favorites from my Fox News days, pollster Doug Schoen.

00:56:09.960 He's a Democrat.

00:56:11.040 He is a Harvard grad, a Harvard law grad and an Oxford grad.

00:56:16.180 So a super smart guy and also super sweet one.

00:56:19.420 Doug, thank you so much for being here.

00:56:20.820 Megan, thanks for a very kind introduction.

00:56:22.700 I'm pleased to be here.

00:56:23.600 Here's what we all want to know.

00:56:24.660 You're a Democrat, Democrat pollster.

00:56:27.320 You've always been fair.

00:56:28.560 You're one of those clear eyed guys who can see it no matter what you want.

00:56:31.940 You can see what's likely.

00:56:33.440 And what do you think is likely to happen here on Tuesday?

00:56:36.500 Sure.

00:56:36.860 I think we're going to see Joe Biden win the presidency.

00:56:39.800 I think it'll be somewhat closer than many of the analysts are saying and some of the polls

00:56:45.680 are saying.

00:56:46.320 But I think it'll be a five or six point Biden victory as we're sitting here today.

00:56:51.660 And the real question in my mind is, does he win states like Florida, North Carolina,

00:56:57.680 Arizona and indeed Pennsylvania?

00:57:00.160 And if he does, he really runs the table electorally.

00:57:02.920 If not, it could be much closer and come down to the Midwestern states of Michigan and Wisconsin

00:57:10.840 again.

00:57:11.900 Why do you think he's going to win, given that we know there's some percentage of shy Trump

00:57:16.540 voter out there?

00:57:17.440 And if you look at the average, the real clear politics average of the battleground

00:57:22.240 poll states, states that they poll, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio and others, he is ahead

00:57:29.620 of Trump.

00:57:30.220 Joe Biden's ahead of Trump, but he's ahead of Trump less than Hillary Clinton was this time

00:57:36.100 around.

00:57:36.640 And we all know she lost.

00:57:37.980 So what's different?

00:57:39.400 Well, what's different is Wisconsin and Michigan.

00:57:42.620 I think Michigan is seven or eight points, Wisconsin, five or six points.

00:57:47.800 Those are outside the margin of error.

00:57:50.900 So that that's one difference.

00:57:53.000 The other difference is that there has been no erosion in Biden's lead nationally.

00:58:00.120 Hillary, as we both know, was sinking because of the Comey letter, because of the Trump surge,

00:58:05.680 whatever, in 2016.

00:58:07.460 But the polling now has Biden ahead by seven or eight points.

00:58:12.400 And of course, you're right.

00:58:13.360 Much of that is because of the solid blue states on both coasts.

00:58:17.360 But I think it's going to be tough for Trump to win the solid Midwest as he did before.

00:58:24.800 Though, again, you're right to point out that it's within the realm of possibility.

00:58:29.460 But I think more unlikely than four years ago.

00:58:33.420 OK, but is it true?

00:58:34.580 And I get upset when people make me do math.

00:58:37.300 So whenever we start to talk specific electoral votes, my head gets a little fuzzy.

00:58:41.060 But is it true that Trump can lose Michigan and Wisconsin, where he does appear to be

00:58:47.840 pulling behind?

00:58:48.760 Those were huge wins for him last time.

00:58:50.920 He can lose both of those as and still win the presidency as long as he holds on to every

00:58:57.360 other state he won the last time, including the two others that are potentially in jeopardy

00:59:03.060 right now, like Georgia and Iowa.

00:59:05.080 You know, it it's theoretically true, but practically unlikely to happen.

00:59:11.420 Why?

00:59:12.180 I mean, because if you lost Michigan and Wisconsin, where he's still got a chance, he would just

00:59:16.100 have to hold his entire remaining coalition.

00:59:18.980 Yeah, I I've looked at every poll in every state, as you can imagine.

00:59:23.520 And there are enough states that are in play for Biden that while it's probably statistically

00:59:31.020 true with Georgia in play, with North Carolina in play, with Florida in play, with Ohio in

00:59:37.660 play, with Iowa in play.

00:59:41.400 It's unlikely that all of those are going to go to Trump unless all the polling is really

00:59:48.540 wrong.

00:59:48.940 And I guess it could be and it's theoretically possible, but I think, Megan, quite unlikely.

00:59:56.580 What do you make of Trafalgar?

00:59:58.020 It's the one polling outlet that's saying Trump's going to win.

01:00:01.060 He's big on the Trump shy voter.

01:00:03.400 He looks at things like whether you have a fishing or a hunting license to figure out

01:00:07.320 likelihood of you actually voting and who you're going to vote for.

01:00:10.860 And he called a couple of these states.

01:00:13.380 He wasn't full time into polling last time around, but he called some of these surprise

01:00:17.280 states like Pennsylvania for Trump last time around when nobody else was.

01:00:21.080 And he's sitting back now saying, I'm telling you, he's going to win.

01:00:26.160 You know, Megan, it will be a big surprise to me.

01:00:29.120 I have looked at, as I said, every poll.

01:00:32.340 And I do believe that many of them overstate Biden's lead and many by a substantial margin.

01:00:38.800 But in a lot of states like Pennsylvania, the Midwest and the like, Trafalgar is picking

01:00:45.880 up a tie or a Trump lead where other are showing a five or six point Biden lead.

01:00:51.960 So I'm very surprised if he's right.

01:00:54.880 And if he is, maybe I'll have to take lessons from Trafalgar.

01:00:59.920 You're going to try to go hire him.

01:01:01.340 You can maybe get hired by him, Megan.

01:01:03.600 Right, right, right.

01:01:05.220 So let me ask you about these a couple of these competitive states like Iowa, right?

01:01:12.360 Trump won Iowa by nine point five points last time around.

01:01:17.540 I mean, pretty handily.

01:01:18.480 And he won Georgia by five point one points.

01:01:21.980 Easy wins.

01:01:23.820 Texas, he won by nine points last time around.

01:01:26.440 Those those should be red, I guess, by all intents and purposes.

01:01:30.580 You would assume those would go red.

01:01:31.940 But Iowa, they say, is very competitive right now because Trump's tariff war with China has

01:01:39.180 led to a collapse in part in the soybean market.

01:01:42.920 And that's hurt farmers in Iowa.

01:01:45.220 And he's been campaigning in Iowa and he's been campaigning in Georgia.

01:01:49.680 Trump has.

01:01:50.200 So it's not just speculation that he's vulnerable there.

01:01:53.120 He knows it, too.

01:01:53.800 You can always tell where they know they're vulnerable or what they think they might get

01:01:57.680 that they that others don't by where they're spending their most valuable resource time.

01:02:02.260 So but do you think there's a realistic chance he could lose those two states that he won by such a healthy margin?

01:02:08.320 And even Texas, which has just been moved by, I think, Cook to toss up from leaning right.

01:02:16.860 Look, I think it is, again, within the realm of possibility that Trump would lose one of those three, Georgia, Iowa, Texas,

01:02:27.300 potentially even Ohio, which is very close as well.

01:02:35.180 It's possible.

01:02:36.660 I mean, I've looked, as you can imagine, at the Texas numbers.

01:02:41.380 I've looked at Iowa, Ohio and Georgia.

01:02:44.500 And I think it is, you know, within the realm of reason because of one reason we haven't talked about it.

01:02:54.100 But I think there's one big difference, which is coronavirus and Trump's ratings on handling coronavirus are very, very negative.

01:03:05.080 And I think but for that, he would probably be reelected easily.

01:03:08.560 And each of those four or five states, I think, would go to Trump, but for the outbreak of the virus and the second or third wave, whatever you call it, that's happening right now.

01:03:21.300 Yeah, he cannot lose Texas.

01:03:23.240 Texas has got the second most electoral college votes in the union.

01:03:27.320 California's first at 55.

01:03:28.580 Texas is second at 38.

01:03:30.420 Florida and New York are tied for third place at 29.

01:03:32.960 And then comes Pennsylvania at 20.

01:03:35.160 But he can't lose Texas.

01:03:36.060 That is absolutely correct.

01:03:39.020 And again, I don't think he would be in play in Texas in the way that they polling now suggests.

01:03:45.400 But for the real outbreak in the state, which is particularly in West Texas and El Paso, created huge, huge problems.

01:03:56.240 What do you think about Arizona?

01:03:57.780 Biden is shown to be up there by about 2.4 percentage points over Trump.

01:04:03.780 Clinton at this point was up 1.5 percentage points over Trump and Trump won it by 3.5.

01:04:10.040 It's so crazy when you look back at how how wrong these polls were.

01:04:13.120 But yes, Biden, I think he was showing up.

01:04:16.800 I think Arizona is going to be quite close.

01:04:19.420 I mean, there had been polling earlier that showed Biden with a bigger lead, five or six points, which I always discounted.

01:04:27.240 And I guess as I sit here today, I think Arizona is either 50-50 or probably likely to go to Trump.

01:04:38.520 But again, it's another state that's in play that he really should anticipate winning.

01:04:44.680 And you add that into the other ones we were just talking about.

01:04:48.000 And it suggests the magnitude of the problem he has in terms of the Electoral College.

01:04:54.260 He's going there.

01:04:55.280 He's going to Trump's going over the next few days is where Trump's going, according to their schedule now.

01:05:00.800 Arizona, Florida, Pennsylvania, Maine, North Carolina, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, that sort of Midwestern area.

01:05:08.960 I mean, like all those that sort of old Democrat firewall, right, of of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan.

01:05:17.460 He wants all of them again.

01:05:19.340 And now he wants Minnesota, too, which is the one that went blue last time that the Trump campaign thinks it's got a chance of turning red.

01:05:26.380 Do you agree?

01:05:27.700 Yeah, I thought initially they did the polling out of Minnesota that I've seen suggest that Biden has a pretty comfortable seven or eight point lead.

01:05:36.140 So I think that's unlikely.

01:05:38.640 But if you look at that travel schedule and the analysis you used, which is if they're going there, they've got problems.

01:05:45.040 It suggests that Trump sees that even in states that he needs to win, that he is counting on, like Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, Georgia, Iowa and the like.

01:05:58.740 He's going to visit in the waning days of the campaign because he knows his base is not yet solid.

01:06:06.140 Meanwhile, Joe Biden's barely traveling at all.

01:06:08.620 He's like, yeah, and that's in his basement in his bean bag.

01:06:13.100 Like, this is so grab so comfy.

01:06:15.760 And no one seems to think I'm going to lose.

01:06:18.580 No, he is getting out there.

01:06:19.600 He's going to Pennsylvania, of course, Florida, of course.

01:06:23.320 And he is making a play in Iowa.

01:06:25.300 He wants Wisconsin to come back Democrat again.

01:06:28.340 Remember, Hillary Clinton never visited Wisconsin.

01:06:30.200 Joe Biden doesn't want to make the same mistake.

01:06:31.900 And he's going to Georgia, which the Biden campaign thinks he can win, not to mention Delaware, which, OK, fine.

01:06:39.400 That's a waste of time.

01:06:40.660 But can I ask you about crowd size and all that?

01:06:43.300 Because you've seen the Trump rallies.

01:06:45.280 They're insane.

01:06:46.060 The amount of enthusiasm is out of control on Trump's side when you look at the rallies.

01:06:51.360 The Joe Biden.

01:06:52.160 I mean, I'm sorry, Doug.

01:06:53.620 He did an event in Georgia this week.

01:06:55.520 I had to tweet out about it.

01:06:56.660 It had the little white circles for everyone to stand individually surrounded by six feet in all direction.

01:07:03.560 I think there were 18 people there.

01:07:05.880 I like I definitely could have counted them on my hands.

01:07:09.780 Yeah.

01:07:10.620 You know, he slowly walked down the stairs to like a smattering of applause and took this.

01:07:16.420 It was just sad.

01:07:17.440 I'm like, OK, they rip on the Trump campaign for having these massive rallies where no one's wearing masks in the age of Corona where we're seeing spikes.

01:07:25.020 And in an effort to overcorrect, they've taken out all the people and all the fun.

01:07:31.000 Yeah.

01:07:31.200 Here's what I would tell you.

01:07:32.980 Forty to forty five percent of the people who say they're voting for Biden say they're voting against Trump.

01:07:40.920 So as I sit here today, the Biden strategy is basically to be as inoffensive as possible and to avoid any sort of controversy,

01:07:52.640 certainly to avoid discussing any of the controversies concerning his family business and Hunter Biden at all,

01:08:02.060 because he is basically, as we used to say in the law, and I know in the distant past, you were a successful lawyer yourself.

01:08:11.800 Biden is sort of the remainder man here for those who are dissatisfied with Trump.

01:08:16.660 And with a negative job approval now, Biden's strategy is basically to say, I'm not Trump.

01:08:22.840 And so far, it appears to be working.

01:08:26.060 So do no harm.

01:08:27.320 He doesn't need to show big enthusiastic crowds.

01:08:29.580 Do no harm.

01:08:29.600 Make no waves.

01:08:30.720 Well, he made none.

01:08:31.660 Absolutely none.

01:08:33.200 No, I don't think anybody on Earth saw him besides those 18 people who were there.

01:08:38.140 But, you know, I also do remember watching Mitt Romney in 2012 with massive, massive crowds thinking, oh, my God, like that's it's insane.

01:08:50.280 Like, I know the polls are saying he's behind, but look at those crowds.

01:08:53.920 And experts like you would come on and say, you can't go by the crowd size, you know, and then and then that's what I was thinking in 2016.

01:09:00.860 Like all the smart people have told me you can't go by the crowd size.

01:09:03.420 And then that was wrong.

01:09:05.180 That turns out to be wrong.

01:09:06.180 So I think all of us, everyone I know, Doug, I mean, is the same for you?

01:09:09.860 They want to know what you think.

01:09:11.380 They want to know how certain you are.

01:09:12.880 And they're really struggling to put a bet down because and in terms of who's who will actually win because they're so rattled by 2016 results.

01:09:21.400 And my take, as I said, is much closer election than people suggest.

01:09:27.400 I think it is likely that most of the red leaning states from 2016 will stay red.

01:09:34.480 Pennsylvania very much in play.

01:09:36.560 It's about four or five points within the margin of error for Biden.

01:09:41.320 The rest of the Midwest is, you know, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, leaning strongly to Biden, but not out of the woods.

01:09:52.380 So I my bets are on Biden, but I don't think we can put this to rest just yet.

01:10:00.000 And I think your questions and your concerns are all fair and reasonable ones.

01:10:04.780 What's the very first thing you're going to be looking for an election night?

01:10:07.380 Like, what are the early signs that might be harbingers of things to come that night?

01:10:12.280 I'm going to look at Florida.

01:10:13.660 If we get a win in Florida for Joe Biden, the election's over.

01:10:19.360 It's not going to matter about counts or difficulties.

01:10:22.220 And the reason I say that and urge your listeners to do something similar is it's a state that's within two or three points now.

01:10:30.720 It's effectively a statistical tie.

01:10:33.200 They count the early ballots with the votes on Election Day.

01:10:37.620 So we should have a very good sense pretty early on how Florida is going.

01:10:42.700 And this is one of those elections.

01:10:44.440 How goes Florida will tell us how the country goes.

01:10:47.840 Yeah.

01:10:48.040 If Trump loses Florida, he's done.

01:10:49.520 That's that's right.

01:10:50.420 Well, can I ask you about early and mail in voting?

01:10:52.980 Sure.

01:10:53.520 Have you been watching that?

01:10:55.160 And do you see have you gleaned anything from it in terms of trends?

01:10:58.940 You know, I have been watching it and I've been looking obsessively, as many of us in my profession do.

01:11:06.300 And the candid and honest answer is I have not gleaned anything from it that gives me any sort of dispositive sense as to how the election is going.

01:11:15.860 We simply who's going to show up between now and Election Day and early voting.

01:11:21.180 And most importantly, how many people are going to vote on Election Day?

01:11:24.800 So I don't have any clear sense.

01:11:27.360 But for those commentators who say, oh, the early voting says the Democrats are well ahead.

01:11:32.840 I don't think the evidence suggests that it doesn't doesn't say that to me.

01:11:37.420 Does that tell you anything about enthusiasm?

01:11:39.420 Right. Because of one of the narratives of the whole campaign has been Trump's voters are hugely enthusiastic for him.

01:11:46.740 Biden's voters really aren't.

01:11:48.600 But they may be hugely enthusiastic against Trump.

01:11:51.160 But does negative enthusiasm work as well as positive enthusiasm in getting somebody to the polls?

01:11:57.760 You know, it's certainly the case that the Trump voters are more enthusiastic than the Biden voters.

01:12:03.200 I don't think there's any doubt about that.

01:12:05.340 Whether that enthusiasm translates on Election Day to a huge turnout among the 45, 50 percent of the electorate that hasn't voted.

01:12:14.760 That's the big question. And certainly possible if people like Trafalgar are right, we will see a burst of enthusiasm that's not being picked up by the polls, the mainstream media is reporting.

01:12:29.380 Do you worry as a Democrat about the effect coronavirus is going to have on Tuesday?

01:12:34.500 Because I've heard some folks say a lot of the Republicans who love Trump, you know, you can see at the rallies that they don't really care.

01:12:40.420 They're going to stand in the line with or without a mask and they will vote for that man.

01:12:44.740 Democrats might say, I like my man, but it's dangerous and I'm on the older side and I'm sure somebody else has got this.

01:12:52.880 Well, I think that's certainly possible. I mean, if we're talking again about states like Florida and Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Georgia, Arizona, where we're down to one or two percent difference between the two candidates, that could indeed make a difference.

01:13:10.560 It's just one of those things that it's very, very hard to tell in advance.

01:13:15.580 But again, it's clear there's an enthusiasm gap for Trump and it's clear that his voters will probably be more fearless than the Biden voters.

01:13:25.440 Mm hmm. I remember talking to Brad Parscale, Trump's first campaign manager who, you know, got fired and Bill Steppian replaced him two months ago.

01:13:36.320 And I talked to Brad after Trump won in 16.

01:13:40.360 And it was fascinating, Doug. And he was talking for the first time about how he knew he was going to win.

01:13:47.440 And unlike everybody now who says, I knew it, I knew it. He really knew it.

01:13:50.580 He's on record with a bunch of people I know as having predicted the win.

01:13:55.200 And I'm, of course, saying, how how did you know that every single poll said he was going to lose?

01:14:00.680 And he was watching the like the merchandise go off of the Trump website and where certain Facebook posts would go viral, like who's buying all the MAGA hats and who is circulating the most posts that the Trump campaign will put up.

01:14:17.380 And then they would go to those places and just flood the field, you know, just get as many advertisements and get out the vote efforts as possible.

01:14:23.920 So they had this, I thought, unique way of going about it.

01:14:27.240 Now, Brad has been fired and I don't know whether they're still using those same methods.

01:14:33.080 But I do wonder if you think get out the vote efforts.

01:14:36.960 I mean, does it all come down to each campaign's ability, you know, to knock on the doors and get the people in the in the caravan and give them lemonade while they stand there or hot chocolate?

01:14:48.620 You know, like we've been, I don't know, just sort of sitting around musing for two years.

01:14:53.940 And and really, if you don't have the caravan, take the people to the polling station, you're out of luck.

01:15:00.380 So you tell me how that's going to make or break each side.

01:15:03.040 I would say this first this year, there is not the degree of negativity towards Joe Biden that there was towards Hillary.

01:15:13.320 Second, the Democrats have a huge financial advantage over Trump, even bigger than Hillary's advantage over Trump.

01:15:21.200 And third, the Democrats have put a lot of money into GOTV.

01:15:25.160 Now, that being said, the Trump digital effort in 2016 was extraordinary.

01:15:31.760 It's still very, very high quality and high powered.

01:15:35.020 So, again, I think it's fair to say that we're going to see a better GOTV or a more persuasive GOTV for Trump on Election Day than the Democrats have.

01:15:45.240 And it's anyone's guess how much of the early vote margin will be closed.

01:15:52.160 But I think I think it'll be closed very substantially in the election.

01:15:56.120 Again, having a narrow Biden advantage will be tighter than the polls that some media outlets have reported that close show close to or in excess of double digits.

01:16:08.200 Yeah, GOTV or get out the vote.

01:16:10.940 I mean, that's the name of the game right now.

01:16:13.040 But I will say going out on the set last year or four years ago, I guess, to talk about what was going to happen as the results were coming in.

01:16:20.540 I remember that it was like the New York Times had some huge percentage or like 88 percent chance that Donald Trump wins and 538 had 86 percent of Hillary Clinton winning.

01:16:39.160 I'm sorry, reverse that.

01:16:40.200 Both saying Hillary Clinton.

01:16:42.040 Right.

01:16:42.620 And now they're saying Biden has about that same chance of beating him this time.

01:16:47.300 So I'm like, you told me that story before.

01:16:48.980 Sure. So let me ask you this before I let you go.

01:16:51.520 Sure.

01:16:51.820 One of the things we've been talking about is the Hunter Biden news to the extent it's gotten covered.

01:16:56.480 But there's been a fair amount of news on in the past couple of days.

01:16:59.480 I know you you've just written a book on China and Russia and how they're growing and becoming these giants.

01:17:06.160 And we're kind of going the opposite direction.

01:17:08.820 What's what's the name of your book?

01:17:10.360 The name of the book is The End of Democracy.

01:17:12.540 And in this election, Megan, we've seen very, very little attention, if at all, to foreign policy.

01:17:19.960 The concern about the end of democracy has been more here at home, the fighting between the two parties.

01:17:25.700 But curiously, I think that benefits Joe Biden because the Hunter Biden scandal is one that has not gotten much attention to the mainstream media.

01:17:34.620 We're not talking about China.

01:17:36.040 We're not talking to a great extent about Russia or Ukraine.

01:17:40.000 And I think that benefits Biden, given what the emails appear to suggest about, again, what could well have gone on.

01:17:49.840 I don't know that they've been verified, but I do know that what I've read does not augur well for Biden if they're accurate.

01:17:57.960 Mm hmm. The end of democracy.

01:18:00.660 Now, you know, if Trump wins, that's what the Democrats are going to saying that are going to say this is that the country's over.

01:18:07.300 There's no getting it back.

01:18:08.320 The sad thing is if if the Democrats win, I think the Republicans will say something similar.

01:18:16.120 We have a crisis with our democracy.

01:18:18.560 You and I have talked in the past about the need for unity coming together and common purpose.

01:18:23.700 And what I argue is in my book, The End of Democracy, is whether it be at home or overseas, we don't have common purpose.

01:18:32.180 We don't have an American ideal and values that we articulate.

01:18:36.020 And that's where we're losing.

01:18:37.900 And I worry both domestically with coronavirus and our economy and globally.

01:18:43.020 Our influence is retreating.

01:18:45.180 We're getting weaker.

01:18:45.960 And I think that's a huge issue that you and many other very influential commentators will be dealing with after November 3rd.

01:18:54.860 When I think back on those unity discussions, I think, weren't we so cute?

01:18:59.720 We were adorable, like thinking it might be possible.

01:19:03.560 I like to think it still is possible, Doug.

01:19:06.180 I like to think that.

01:19:07.060 I think so, too.

01:19:08.800 And people of goodwill have to come together, Megan, as you've always tried to do with people.

01:19:14.460 And you've been a lonely voice out there trying to bring sanity to our dialogue and discourse.

01:19:20.640 Wow.

01:19:21.120 Well, thank you for the assistance in the effort.

01:19:23.580 Great to talk to you, Doug.

01:19:24.580 Great.

01:19:24.880 Thank you so much, Megan.

01:19:25.960 Greatly appreciate it.

01:19:31.340 Our thanks to James Rosen and Kim Klasik and Doug Schoen.

01:19:34.300 And now we're just a couple of days from actually knowing the answer.

01:19:37.460 We hope.

01:19:38.440 Right.

01:19:38.780 I don't think it's going to drag on forever.

01:19:40.960 I just I feel more optimistic that we're going to have it resolved, if not on election night, then very, very soon thereafter.

01:19:47.240 But I don't know.

01:19:48.400 I'm an optimist.

01:19:49.120 So maybe I'm maybe I'm being too Pollyanna about it.

01:19:51.680 I'd love to know what you think.

01:19:52.840 Listen, next week, we got you totally covered as well.

01:19:55.480 And we're going to get to some big guests there.

01:19:57.280 But first, I want to tell you that today's episode was brought to you in part by POM, the next generation pepper spray.

01:20:02.920 It gives you peace of mind.

01:20:05.380 Get yours today at palmpepperspray.com.

01:20:07.920 So next week, we're going to have all the election events covered for you, including the vote.

01:20:12.420 Obviously, we'll have Hugh Hewitt.

01:20:13.800 We're going to be joined by Charles Cook.

01:20:15.500 And history will be in the making.

01:20:17.000 Right.

01:20:17.200 This is like one of the things that makes me proud to be an American democracy in action.

01:20:21.720 There will be a peaceful transfer of power.

01:20:23.820 If Trump loses, if he wins, the Democrats will come to accept that loss and the country will go on.

01:20:30.020 And don't let anybody tell you that we won't survive four more years of Trump or four to eight years under Democrat rule from the White House.

01:20:36.960 We will.

01:20:38.240 It's the United States of America.

01:20:40.220 There are more of us who are sane and can see the world clearly than there are lunatics on the left and the right.

01:20:46.980 So keep that in mind and keep listening.

01:20:50.800 Go to Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - October 30, 2020

Election Weekend with James Rosen, Kim Klacik and Doug Schoen ｜ Ep. 17

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