The Megyn Kelly Show - Exclusive Comey Case Details, and Cringe Meghan Markle Profile, with Link Lauren, Eiglarsh, Holloway, and Merchant ｜ Ep. 1198

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00:01:00.780 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:12.400 Hey, everyone.

00:01:13.680 I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:01:14.740 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live from Bakersfield, California.

00:01:18.500 We are out here for the final leg of our Megyn Kelly live tour.

00:01:22.680 You can still get tickets if you go to megankelly.com.

00:01:26.000 There's a few left.

00:01:27.420 Bakersfield tonight, Anaheim tomorrow, and then we finish in Phoenix in Glendale, Arizona with Erica Kirk and Walter Kern on Saturday night.

00:01:36.720 It's beautiful out here, I have to say.

00:01:38.540 You know, every time you come out to California, you're reminded why people live out here.

00:01:42.300 And then you remember, like, Kamala Harris and Gavin Newsom, and you say,

00:01:45.840 No, snap out of it.

00:01:46.840 Snap out of it.

00:01:47.480 No beautiful, mountainous views in the distance are worth that.

00:01:51.440 We now are going to kick things off with Kelly's Court.

00:01:54.540 Our panelists today, Mark Eiglarsh, Ashley Merchant, and Phil Holloway, all of whom have extensive trial experience.

00:02:01.640 So unlike most of those other legal segments you see elsewhere, we actually have real trial lawyers who know of what they speak.

00:02:08.580 We'll be right back.

00:02:38.580 That's P-I-Q-U-E. 1.00

00:03:08.420 That's P-Life.com slash Megan.

00:03:10.160 This is Hydration Redefined.

00:03:12.820 Try it and glow from the inside out.

00:03:16.420 Great to see you all, and thanks to all of you guys for doing the tour with me on earlier stops.

00:03:21.300 It was wonderful to have you.

00:03:22.440 It was awesome to be there.

00:03:23.660 It was so fun.

00:03:24.240 I think the show was amazing.

00:03:25.600 Everybody should definitely go.

00:03:27.260 Yeah, I love the question and answer period.

00:03:29.640 Yes, yes.

00:03:30.300 So I saw Mark in Miami and saw Phil and Ashley in Atlanta, and Ashley Merchant is a statuesque model in real life.

00:03:41.580 I only see you from the neck up.

00:03:44.360 Right, that's true.

00:03:45.200 I recognize you.

00:03:46.200 When I saw the real you, you are fabulous, even more fabulous in person than I'm talking about.

00:03:49.900 Well, so are you.

00:03:50.800 Mark and I never get accused of being such a statuesque model.

00:03:54.400 You too, Phil.

00:03:55.440 You're hot.

00:03:56.140 We all know that.

00:03:56.980 I mean, that was like written into the record before we even started.

00:03:59.300 Okay.

00:03:59.540 There's so much to discuss, and I actually have some exclusive reporting on the James Comey case that I'm going to use to clarify the record that's been misreported in a second, but let's just set it up for the audience what we're dealing with here.

00:04:12.380 So the acting U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, Lindsay Halligan, was appointed by this DOJ, and she indicted Letitia James and also James Comey.

00:04:24.020 And James Comey is accused of lying to Congress about when he purported to say, oh, I never authorized anyone to leak on the matters of the Trump investigation or the investigation into Hillary Clinton's email use.

00:04:38.080 He said that under oath, and the theory is you did authorize somebody to leak.

00:04:42.640 It was your good pal Daniel Richman, who you brought on at the FBI as a special governmental employee, and you absolutely did use him to leak about, in particular, the Hillary investigation.

00:04:52.540 So that's what the case is about.

00:04:54.920 Comey's trying to get out of it any way possible, and he's not only got an argument that substantively he didn't do the things that they're arguing he did.

00:05:03.480 He's got an argument that, A, she wasn't properly appointed, and that's going to be argued and heard by a different judge.

00:05:08.540 But, B, he's now challenging the actual four corners of the indictment as inappropriate and, like, not properly styled, not properly brought before the grand jury.

00:05:19.420 And that hearing got very heated on Wednesday.

00:05:24.080 I'm going to play you a little from CNN's Caitlin Paulance, who is their legal correspondent, I think, on the drama, she said, when she says it was revealed.

00:05:34.360 Because just as a background for the listening audience, originally there were three counts that Lindsay Halligan proposed against James Comey.

00:05:41.060 The grand jury was ready to return an indictment on two of the three, but they weren't convinced on the third.

00:05:46.640 And so she struck the third and went back to the grand jury, and they approved those two and said, yeah, let's go.

00:05:52.600 Now, there's a question about whether she did, in fact, go back to the grand jury and get them to bless what would be the final indictment with just the two counts that we know the grand jury did like and did believe in.

00:06:05.360 And the judge, this wasn't even brought up by Comey's lawyer, this was the judge who thought there were, like, missing minutes in the train, like, there wasn't enough time for you to, after they struck the one count, for you to redraft the indictment, get back with a clean indictment with the two counts.

00:06:22.940 There's some funny business going on.

00:06:24.500 Did this grand jury actually bless it or didn't they?

00:06:26.580 And here is CNN's Caitlin Paulance describing the in-scene courtroom experience yesterday, SOT30.

00:06:33.260 I've been in a lot of these hearings in politically charged cases over the years.

00:06:39.840 This was gobsmacking.

00:06:41.480 It was absolute silence.

00:06:43.780 I've said before in this case that there have been moments where people gasped, but this was you could see the entire room shift.

00:06:51.000 And from then on, this was the only thing that was that was mattering in that case.

00:06:56.300 This is the only thing that the judge and that others were talking about.

00:07:01.400 And I'll give you one more.

00:07:02.540 This is Trump 1.0 White House lawyer Ty Cobb and his reaction to the news yesterday, SOT31.

00:07:09.360 So that hasn't been dismissed yet or thrown out or the nullity been recognized.

00:07:16.180 I do think if the ruling is that there is no indictment, there's no indictment to dismiss.

00:07:21.420 Only if the indictment is dismissed with the six month rules for representation come into play.

00:07:27.560 So what happened today is very significant in that regard legally.

00:07:32.180 But, yes, Comey has, you know, the misconduct issues, you know, the miscarriage of justice issues, the denial of due process issues, the vindictiveness issues.

00:07:42.660 You know, this case is dead.

00:07:44.220 This case is never going to get to trial.

00:07:46.100 And Comey will, you know, never be held accountable as the government has desired and as the president ordered Bondi to see to.

00:07:55.600 OK, and here's the last point I'll make before we get into it.

00:08:00.580 I have exclusive reporting here on what actually happened in court yesterday.

00:08:06.700 The entire grand jury, I've been reliably informed by a source who's in a position to know, did see the final indictment with just the two counts.

00:08:16.800 They did see it, review it and approve it.

00:08:20.260 And I'm told that there is a transcript of that proceeding, which will prove exactly that the magistrate judge then confirmed with the foreperson on the record in open court at the time they returned the true bill that everyone on the grand jury had voted on that indictment that has two counts.

00:08:41.260 So I believe that this entire issue will be cured as soon as these magistrate judges, the magistrate judge and the judge above him, the district court judge, get a look at what actually happened with the judge and the grand jury overseeing these two counts.

00:08:55.440 I think it's all going to be cured.

00:08:56.580 I think my belief is this is a misunderstanding.

00:08:58.980 But let's let's proceed as though it isn't a misunderstanding and that she didn't cross her T's and dot her I's.

00:09:07.120 And she just had the grand jury vote on the I'm picturing like a piece of paper that has three counts.

00:09:12.980 They crossed out one and just kind of let the two the jury had earlier approved when it was two of three stand.

00:09:20.740 Is it is it an OK, true bill?

00:09:22.820 Does the prosecutor have a problem on her hand? 1.00

00:09:25.060 We'll start.

00:09:25.640 We'll do ladies first, Ashley. 1.00

00:09:27.300 I think it's a fine one.

00:09:28.620 I think the indictment's fine and I think it would stand.

00:09:30.620 Doesn't mean I wouldn't argue for dismissal as a defense lawyer.

00:09:33.240 But I think it's one of those situations where you could put a you could put an indictment on a napkin.

00:09:38.540 I mean, if you wanted to write it out, you could.

00:09:39.960 There's no rule that says it has to be in a certain order or look a certain way.

00:09:43.100 So as long as that language is the exact same and it sounds like it is, as long as the language is the exact same, if they went and they made what we would call a scrivener's change.

00:09:51.780 That's just a change, you know, changing the heading, changing the title, changing the numbers.

00:09:55.600 I think it's completely fine.

00:09:57.240 And, you know, it's interesting because in the Trump indictment in Georgia, they actually had the numbers change.

00:10:02.300 So we had this same issue and it never made it to court.

00:10:05.320 The numbers were actually changed when they scanned the indictment.

00:10:08.680 What do you mean the numbers changed?

00:10:09.900 Yeah.

00:10:10.260 So it was one of those racketeering indictments.

00:10:12.760 And so they had different numbers for predicate acts.

00:10:14.940 And the numbers actually, when they scanned it, we had this whole controversy.

00:10:18.460 It never really came to light, but we had it internally about the e-filing system in the court system.

00:10:24.340 When they scanned the indictment that was actually returned, it changed the page numbering and the actual numbering.

00:10:29.980 And we were trying to figure out, was that in front of the grand jury?

00:10:33.080 Was it not?

00:10:33.940 And everybody said, oh, well, it's just a scrivener's error.

00:10:36.220 And I think this is the exact same thing.

00:10:37.840 It does, as long as it doesn't change the language of the indictment, it's going to stand.

00:10:41.800 What do you guys make, Mark and Phil, of the fact that the judge raised this?

00:10:46.820 This wasn't even raised by defense counsel.

00:10:49.640 And the same judge then asked the defense counsel, do you think Lindsey Halligan is just Trump's puppet?

00:10:58.340 And even the defense lawyer was like, no, I'm not going to go that far.

00:11:02.420 I mean, to me, it just shows this judge is not a fan of this prosecutor and maybe this prosecution.

00:11:09.380 But it doesn't bode well for Team Trump in that courtroom that he's raising these things himself and then calling her names and getting the defense attorney to try to get the defense attorney to sign on to those names.

00:11:20.980 I'll start with you, Phil.

00:11:22.140 All right.

00:11:22.700 So, look, this is really much ado about nothing.

00:11:25.560 If you can't win on the facts, you attack the law.

00:11:28.420 If you can't win on the law, you attack the prosecutor.

00:11:31.700 And in this case, Halligan and her team are having to deal with not only the defense raising these issues, which is understandable, but she's also having to deal with a judge who, in my opinion, has abandoned his role as a neutral arbiter, okay, and has basically thrown in with the defense team in attacking the prosecutor.

00:11:53.020 This is a non-issue for all the reasons that Ashley set out, but I would also add that Rule 6F of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure say that as long as a quorum of the total grand jury has approved the charges, it can be returned in open court by the foreperson, okay?

00:12:10.480 So this was just an administrative thing.

00:12:13.540 The entirety of the grand jury voted yes, there is probable cause as to two of those charges, and those are the ones that were filed.

00:12:21.780 It's absolutely not an issue whatsoever.

00:12:25.060 The court reporter even had an email that confirmed that all this is the case and that the grand jury foreperson's open court statements support that this is exactly how it went down.

00:12:40.400 This document that was filed in the court, these two charges were reviewed by the grand jury.

00:12:45.960 They gave it a thumbs up, a true bill, and that's it.

00:12:48.800 If this judge decides he's going to throw it out or do something else with it, then obviously the government will have the right to appeal because that would be absolutely grounds for reversal.

00:12:59.960 This is absolutely astonishing that federal judges are abandoning their judicial role in this way.

00:13:05.720 And it would be, just to be clear, Mark Iglesias, devastating to the government's case if these judges, the magistrate judge and the district judge above him, find this to be fatal because the statute of limitations has run on Comey.

00:13:21.320 So if they can actually convince this judge that there was an irregularity that kills the existing indictment, Comey's off.

00:13:29.980 He's off scot-free.

00:13:30.780 That's correct.

00:13:31.980 So my analysis hinges upon what the facts are, and we're going to play hypothetical.

00:13:37.080 The original story was it was just the grand poobah of the grand jury and one other grand juror who approved the final version.

00:13:48.380 Let's assume that those are the facts for one moment.

00:13:50.660 I also don't take exception to a judge stepping in because my feeling is a judge is always there to ensure that due process is happening.

00:14:01.500 And put aside Comey for a second.

00:14:03.180 Let's say this is one of your loved ones in federal court, and you learned not these particular facts, but you learned somehow the whole grand jury didn't approve the final indictment, that it was just the head guy and someone else with him who approved that final document.

00:14:20.800 You're doggone right you'd have me argue that there's a defect there and something needs to be done.

00:14:25.740 Sorry to interrupt you.

00:14:26.860 Can I just ask you, totally fair case, and I agree with you, the judge has the obligation to make sure the proceedings are fair.

00:14:33.000 But would it also be the case, even if the grand jury, no one's disputing that the grand jury approved these other two counts, the full grand jury approved these other two counts, they didn't approve the third, they crossed off the third.

00:14:47.460 How does that render the original two as required for another vote, that they needed another vote?

00:14:55.440 They already approved those two counts.

00:14:56.740 Yes, and it might not, right?

00:14:58.780 Just so we're clear, legally, a court may find that it's totally okay.

00:15:03.800 But the argument will be that the law requires the entire body of the grand jury to approve whatever's ultimately there for prosecution.

00:15:14.420 And if you cut corners because you want to get Comey, be prepared to have the law changed so they can cut corners on someone you really love and care about.

00:15:22.320 And again, just to remind the listening audience, my exclusive reporting today is that they did not cut corners.

00:15:28.580 They actually did have the entire grand jury approve the new two-count indictment and that that was all on the record with the magistrate judge, that the magistrate judge confirmed with the foreperson on the record in open court that everyone on the grand jury voted on the indictment that has two counts, which does kind of, I don't know whether it's the same magistrate judge that they're in front of right now.

00:15:49.860 I don't think it is.

00:15:50.520 I think it's a different magistrate judge that handled the grand jury proceedings.

00:15:53.180 But, I mean, that does sort of, like, make you wonder if that's there and the magistrate judge, let's say she can just show the current magistrate judge and the district court judge, Ashley, here's the transcript that shows the earlier magistrate judge who dealt with the grand juror asking that the foreperson, did the entire grand jury approve this?

00:16:16.140 And that foreperson saying, yes, they did, that the entire grand jury approved of the indictment that has just the two counts.

00:16:22.100 That should be the end of this nonsense, no?

00:16:23.680 It should totally be the end of this nonsense.

00:16:25.500 And because there's other judges bringing it up, they're trying to undermine the indictment.

00:16:29.060 They're trying to undermine the entire process.

00:16:31.080 And that gets out.

00:16:32.100 You know, the world is watching.

00:16:33.300 The world is listening.

00:16:34.080 And so any juror, potential juror on this case, is going to know about that.

00:16:37.680 They're going to have heard that.

00:16:38.580 It's all over the news.

00:16:39.740 So it's really prejudicial when a judge is trying to intervene in such a manner and really put their thumb on the scales of justice.

00:16:46.600 So now that's not the only basis.

00:16:50.580 You heard a little anti-Cobbs analysis there, that soundbite, for the potential dismissal of this indictment.

00:16:56.160 There's that, that procedural alleged snafu that had CNN all a Twitter.

00:17:01.380 But there's also a motion to dismiss this thing for vindictive prosecution.

00:17:06.880 And this is where things get interesting.

00:17:08.540 Because they do have way more than your average defense attorney could ever hope to have to suggest there was some sort of personal animus behind Comey's indictment in the form of Donald Trump's hatred, it's mutual, of James Comey.

00:17:28.660 So here is this.

00:17:29.760 To establish prosecutorial vindictiveness, a defendant must show, through objective evidence, that, one, the prosecutor acted with genuine animus toward the defendant, and, two, the defendant would not have been prosecuted but for that animus.

00:17:43.920 The defense is arguing that President Trump harbors genuine animus toward Comey based on his speech and based on Trump's arbitrary personal bias.

00:17:52.980 And they're talking about the number of times the Comey has been critical of Trump, and they say there's a causal connection between President Trump's animus and this prosecution, and it's clear.

00:18:04.020 And then they go on to cite that September 20th, Truth Social post that we talked about quite a bit on whether this was intentionally posted by Trump on Truth Social or was meant to be a private DM, direct message, to Pam Bondi.

00:18:19.540 Because it wound up coming down.

00:18:21.760 He took it down.

00:18:22.340 But just to remind the audience, he wrote in that post, Pam,

00:18:26.460 I've reviewed over 30 statements and posts saying that essentially same old story as last time, all talk, no action.

00:18:32.960 Nothing is being done.

00:18:34.000 What about Comey?

00:18:35.160 Adam Shifty Shift, Letitia, they're all guilty as hell, but nothing's going to be done.

00:18:40.320 Lindsay Halligan is a really good lawyer and likes you, speaking of Pam Bondi here, a lot.

00:18:44.980 We can't delay any longer.

00:18:45.980 It's killing our reputation and credibility.

00:18:47.440 They impeached me twice, indicted me five times over nothing.

00:18:51.040 Justice must be served now, President Donald J. Trump.

00:18:55.700 It's actually still up.

00:18:56.860 It wasn't taken down, but it was posted, and there was speculation about whether it was intentionally posted publicly or was meant to be a private.

00:19:03.660 And anyway, it's not all that helpful, I guess I'd say, Phil, to the defense in trying to argue there's no animus behind the indictment.

00:19:09.640 No, it's certainly not helpful.

00:19:10.880 And many of us who have been an observer of Donald Trump for all these years have consistently said that sometimes the things that he says, he makes himself his own worst enemy in many ways.

00:19:24.480 And saying things like this publicly the way he did was a mistake.

00:19:28.200 I think anybody can admit that.

00:19:30.120 But more than one thing can be true at the same time, Megan.

00:19:33.360 He can have animus towards Comey and vice versa.

00:19:36.380 That can be true.

00:19:37.960 But it can also be true that Comey would have, and I would say should have been prosecuted, irrespective of who the president is.

00:19:44.800 And to meet his burden of proving this vindictive and selective prosecution, Comey's got to demonstrate that there were similarly situated other people that did not get prosecuted.

00:19:56.920 Now, obviously, there's not that many people you can find that would be quite similarly situated to the specific facts that we have in this case.

00:20:04.160 But the evidence of Comey's guilt, in my view, is overwhelming, okay?

00:20:09.180 So that's why I said earlier, if you can't win on the facts, then you attack the law.

00:20:13.480 And if you can't win on the law, then you attack the prosecutor.

00:20:16.280 And this is what they're doing.

00:20:17.500 They're trying to say that the prosecutor had ill motives.

00:20:20.520 So two things can be true.

00:20:22.440 You can hate—Trump can hate Comey.

00:20:24.820 And because Comey is guilty, that can be the sole basis for the prosecution.

00:20:30.180 So I think, on balance, an appeals court—I think the trial court may very well toss this out.

00:20:35.740 But I think an appeals court would probably rule with the administration.

00:20:38.360 One of the things they're getting ready to argue on team defense, Mark, is that the communications between Comey and Daniel Richman, who's a Columbia law professor and lawyer, who Comey brought on as a special governmental employee at the FBI for some year and a half while Comey was running the FBI, for the express purpose of, I guess, advising him, but also to deal with the press.

00:20:59.760 And the evidence that Richmond did deal with the press to massage coverage of Comey is replete.

00:21:06.380 I mean, it's legion.

00:21:07.100 It's all over the place.

00:21:07.940 He was talking to many, many reporters about James Comey, about how James Comey was totally right with everything he did around Hillary Clinton.

00:21:15.300 He was right not to indict her.

00:21:16.900 He was right to nonetheless come out a week before the election of 2016 and say,

00:21:20.940 I found new documents relating to her homebrew server on Anthony Weiner's laptop.

00:21:25.560 All the things were right.

00:21:26.680 Comey was right.

00:21:27.380 And he was using Richmond to do all of this.

00:21:29.260 But Richmond was a lawyer.

00:21:31.240 And one of the things we're told the defense is getting ready to do is argue that possibly there was some sort of breach of the attorney-client privilege.

00:21:39.840 Like, the FBI had a strike force that looked at all the documents between Comey and Richmond.

00:21:48.440 But then possibly you're supposed to have, like, a separate FBI agent, if you're going to proceed with an indictment, go and testify before the grand jury.

00:21:55.300 And it's possible they didn't do that, that they used a guy who had seen some of the privileged communications.

00:22:01.820 If you've dealt with this before, I'd be interested.

00:22:03.860 And do you think that's a deal killer for this indictment?

00:22:06.740 I've never heard anything like that.

00:22:08.180 It doesn't mean it's not valid.

00:22:09.320 I've never spoken with Comey.

00:22:10.580 I don't know what his defense is.

00:22:12.140 I know that the obligation of his attorneys is to argue everything that could possibly get him off of these charges.

00:22:19.420 That's their job.

00:22:20.900 I think on that other issue that you talked about, it's a very low bar to meet whether the prosecution has a good faith basis to go forward.

00:22:29.220 And that argument that they're only bringing it because there's animus towards him.

00:22:34.220 Listen, I wouldn't be going to trial at all, ever, if we judged based on how prosecutors felt about my clients.

00:22:42.980 They generally don't particularly care for them.

00:22:45.600 But that's really, in fact, Antonio Brown this week, I got a lot of earful from prosecutors.

00:22:50.540 But the truth is, that doesn't matter.

00:22:53.600 There's got to be both tenants there.

00:22:55.400 The animus needs to be there.

00:22:57.020 Plus, they're only bringing this because they just don't like him.

00:23:01.200 And here, whether there's a valid defense or not, there's enough at least to argue that there is enough that he did to justify the charges.

00:23:11.200 Would it be enough that the president didn't like him as opposed to the prosecutor?

00:23:16.420 No, we're talking prosecution.

00:23:17.880 I mean, no, it's got to be prosecutors.

00:23:20.460 Prosecutors are the ones who bring charges, right?

00:23:22.500 It's not, well, this politician spoke loudly about this person, and so that's going to carry the day.

00:23:28.260 Heck no.

00:23:29.520 It's got to be these prosecutors hold him in the worst regard, and they went after him, not because he violated the law, but because they have personal vendetta against him and just can't stand him.

00:23:42.120 There's no evidence of that.

00:23:43.240 I don't think that that's there.

00:23:44.600 There's no evidence of that.

00:23:45.360 Okay, well, I want to keep going because there's a lot more to get to.

00:23:47.560 Michael Wolff, who's been all over the news this week because he was BFFs with Jeffrey Epstein.

00:23:52.780 I mean, it's like we, one week ago today, I think it was one week or eight days ago today, we had an exclusive report on Michael Wolff and tapes that we had heard, personally, of Michael Wolff dealing with Jeffrey Epstein and this former Obama White House counsel.

00:24:10.420 And Michael Wolff was more of an advisor to Jeffrey Epstein than he was independent journalist trying to document anything about him.

00:24:18.300 I mean, he had lots of thoughts on how Jeffrey Epstein needed to rehabilitate himself and, you know, could come clean with the public and sort of return to polite society and was advising him on how CNN might be asking Trump about Jeffrey Epstein at a debate and on and on it went.

00:24:32.720 Well, Michael Wolff is making a living, like, single-handedly out of talking about the Trumps, thanks in large part to his talks with Jeffrey Epstein.

00:24:41.520 Like, he's tried to parlay that plus his profile of Trump in Fire and Fury into a whole career as a Trump whisperer.

00:24:49.240 Meanwhile, Trump hates him.

00:24:50.540 But anyway, one of the things he did was he went on a podcast with the Daily Beast, and he started talking about Trump and Melania and the beginning of their relationship.

00:25:01.140 This is July 28th.

00:25:05.000 This is from Michael Wolff's Instagram.

00:25:08.220 But the Daily Beast also wrote up this story.

00:25:10.560 And listen here to what he said, South 35.

00:25:14.140 This sham marriage, trophy marriage, hardly any marriage at all, is part of the scam he's pulled on MAGA.

00:25:24.580 But I think that's in danger of being undermined now by the Epstein story, in which Melania plays no small part.

00:25:37.200 Epstein told me that Trump and Melania got together, had sex for the first time, on his airplane, Epstein's airplane.

00:25:48.380 Melania met Trump through the same modeling circles through which Epstein and Trump procured dates.

00:26:01.320 And after he got married, he continued to cheat on Melania, in part through his Epstein connections, and often with Epstein as the wingman.

00:26:12.340 Okay, so he not only posted that on Instagram, but he talked to the Daily Beast, and there was a podcast in which he said similar things.

00:26:22.880 And the Daily Beast took down that podcast after hearing from Melania Trump's lawyers.

00:26:28.900 But Michael Wolff did something else.

00:26:32.240 Michael Wolff, instead of backing down, filed his own request and action, a legal action, a case, for declaratory judgment, which is kind of what you do when you know you're about to get sued and you'd rather be the plaintiff than the defendant.

00:26:45.580 You beat the would-be plaintiff into the court, and you say, I'm the plaintiff, and I demand a judgment saying I did nothing wrong.

00:26:51.500 So that's what he did, and he's in there now saying, I didn't do anything wrong, I did not defame anybody, and I want a judgment to that effect.

00:26:59.680 And he's going after Melania, standing by what he said in that clip.

00:27:05.060 Anybody have thoughts on whether what he said in that clip is per se defamatory or could form the basis of a defamation case, given that he started it with Epstein told me?

00:27:17.120 Well, if I can take that first, Megan, look, what he said, and you've got to, setting aside the absolute atrocity, like the atrociousness of what was said, I think it's just reprehensible, the things that he said.

00:27:31.680 But setting that aside, you have to look specifically at the very words that were used.

00:27:37.400 And this, what we just played in that thought, is a mixture, if you will, of opinions and allegations of fact.

00:27:45.820 And in order to prevail on a defamation claim, you know, it has to be essentially a false statement of fact.

00:27:52.760 And, of course, there's some nuances to that.

00:27:54.820 A false statement of fact, and the burden of proof is on the plaintiff.

00:27:57.640 In this case, it would be Melania to prove that those were false and, in fact, defamatory.

00:28:03.100 So you mentioned that he's gone to court first.

00:28:06.880 There's a type of law called a SLAP statute, and it stands for Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation.

00:28:13.960 And the word strategic is in there for a reason, because as you pointed out, this allows the would-be defendant to go into court first.

00:28:21.580 And then he has to prove, now that he's the plaintiff, though, he, Wolf, is going to have to prove that his comments were not defamatory.

00:28:30.120 So he's basically changed the burden of proof, if you will.

00:28:33.980 I think it was probably not a good idea to do that.

00:28:36.600 The best thing to do would have been to just take it down and move on, as the letter from Melania Trump's lawyers asked them to do.

00:28:44.580 That would have been the smarter thing.

00:28:45.920 But now we're in court, and we're going to have judges and all sorts of people back and forth debating, is this a fact or is this an opinion?

00:28:53.680 Oh, and by the way, if all we're doing is regurgitating the words of Jeffrey Epstein, then Wolf is going to say, technically, my statement is true.

00:29:02.080 Because this is exactly what Epstein said.

00:29:04.260 And that's why this is going nowhere.

00:29:06.220 If you're repeating defamation.

00:29:07.780 You agree, Mark, that's a get-out-of-jail-free card, like a total carte blanche for Michael Wolf to say whatever he wants, as long as it's prefaced with Jeffrey Epstein told me.

00:29:15.440 Yes, and as we all learned when we went to law school, the First Amendment gives you wide latitude to spew outrageous and offensive speech.

00:29:24.380 The question is whether this is primarily opinion, and it looks that way.

00:29:28.340 There's a few facts that he'll say, well, I said in good conscience, it doesn't mean that they're actually true.

00:29:33.900 He doesn't have to be truthful.

00:29:35.820 Again, she has to prove actual malice, that he knew it was false or a reckless disregard of the truth.

00:29:41.420 It's a very high standard, as you have learned, Megan.

00:29:44.140 So I don't think this lawsuit goes anywhere against this guy.

00:29:47.720 It doesn't mean that I'm in favor of what he says, and it doesn't mean that it's factual.

00:29:50.940 I have no idea if what he's saying is truthful.

00:29:52.760 But I love our First Amendment, and it gives us wide latitude to say a lot of things that always have to be right.

00:29:58.420 I'm just rereading the little transcript from that Instagram post, which is at issue.

00:30:02.940 Melania's threat letter to him raises what he said to the Daily Beast and what he said on Instagram.

00:30:08.400 And here's the beginning.

00:30:09.300 Before he gets to Epstein told me, Ashley, he says,

00:30:11.800 So all that precedes Epstein told me that they got together and so on.

00:30:29.820 And by the way, he also went on and said some very terrible things about Trump wanting to sleep with his friends' wives and setting traps up to get them to sleep with them and so on.

00:30:39.140 Now, Trump is not the one threatening a lawsuit.

00:30:41.660 It's Melania about what he said about her.

00:30:43.880 I don't know if that's enough to call their marriage a sham, a trophy marriage, hardly any marriage at all.

00:30:48.720 Part of a scam he's pulled on MAGA.

00:30:50.740 MAGA, and I think it's in danger of being undermined now by the Epstein story, in which Melania plays no small part.

00:30:55.740 Melania plays no small part in the Epstein story.

00:30:58.540 Anyway, your thoughts.

00:30:59.820 This is a game of chess.

00:31:02.000 That's what he's doing.

00:31:02.880 This is not about defamation.

00:31:04.300 This is about discovery.

00:31:05.600 He wants to be able to depose people, and he wants to be able to access documents in the public space and get discovery, get depositions, interrogatories, those type of things.

00:31:15.400 If there's a lawsuit, you can get discovery.

00:31:17.600 And that's what he wants.

00:31:19.380 So what happens now?

00:31:21.000 Because Melania Trump has not yet responded to the lawsuit.

00:31:23.540 And a lot of times, as you guys know as lawyers, you have a lawyer send what we call a nasty gram to somebody.

00:31:29.740 As Melania Trump's lawyers did. 1.00

00:31:31.520 Like, take that shit down, or you're going to have a legal problem on your hand. 0.99

00:31:35.100 And you're kind of expecting them to do what the Daily Beast did, which is do it. 0.99

00:31:38.840 Take it down.

00:31:40.140 Instead, Michael Wolff doubled down.

00:31:42.780 Called their bluff.

00:31:43.200 Called his own declaratory judgment action, in which he is entitled to discovery. 0.99

00:31:47.480 And you might be having an oh, shit moment if you're Melania's lawyer, Ashley. 0.89

00:31:51.600 So what do you expect them to do now? 1.00

00:31:53.200 That's why I say it's a game of chess, because you are having an oh, shit moment. 0.99

00:31:56.780 You're like, now he is going to get discovery. 1.00

00:31:59.100 He said, check me.

00:32:00.640 When you filed that, he said, I'm calling your bluff.

00:32:03.740 And now I'm going to double down, and I'm going to be able to get discovery.

00:32:07.440 And that's a win for him, because then he gets to talk about it.

00:32:10.720 Then he gets that information.

00:32:12.080 And if you don't give discovery, or you try to avoid a subpoena or something like that,

00:32:16.640 he can spin that.

00:32:17.560 So I think that is what his game is here.

00:32:19.240 The smartest move is to try and get rid of this as fast as possible.

00:32:23.480 No, but why would it go away?

00:32:24.960 Why would it go away?

00:32:25.960 We're talking about it.

00:32:26.820 Let me tee this up.

00:32:27.580 The Daily Beast, like I said, had a very different reaction.

00:32:30.720 Not only did they apologize, but they pulled the story entirely.

00:32:35.820 The Daily Beast recently published a story.

00:32:37.360 They posted this on their website.

00:32:39.020 Headline, Melania Trump, very involved in the Epstein scandal. 0.79

00:32:42.620 Colon, author, meaning citing Michael Wolff.

00:32:45.060 Based on an interview with Michael Wolff.

00:32:46.400 Upon reflection, we've determined that the article did not meet our standards and has

00:32:50.060 therefore been removed from our platforms.

00:32:51.900 In response to a letter from the First Lady's attorneys, the Daily Beast has also removed

00:32:55.320 a portion of the episode of the Daily Beast podcast titled Trump's Epstein scandal can't

00:32:59.660 stop, won't stop, referencing the First Lady. 0.99

00:33:02.360 The First Lady points to her bestselling book, Melania, as the definitive account of her life

00:33:07.800 story.

00:33:08.300 We apologize to the First Lady and to our readers.

00:33:10.540 Does that play in, Mark Eichlarsch, in the attempt by Melania's lawyers to show, I mean,

00:33:17.420 Michael Wolff is the source for all of this.

00:33:19.100 The Daily Beast already backed down and apologized and retracted.

00:33:22.160 Okay.

00:33:22.620 It plays well for Melania and the court of public opinion because people like you give the impression,

00:33:28.920 I think, or people are getting the impression that the Daily, what is it, Beast, Male?

00:33:35.020 Which one?

00:33:35.380 Yeah, Beast.

00:33:35.760 And somehow then pulled it because what he's saying might be false.

00:33:40.200 They could be pulling it for many other reasons.

00:33:42.340 They don't want the hassle.

00:33:43.640 They don't need the lawsuit.

00:33:44.920 It's going to be costly.

00:33:46.240 It doesn't mean, in fact, what they didn't say was, we're pulling it because he used our

00:33:52.020 media outlet to spew lies.

00:33:55.100 They didn't say that.

00:33:56.440 They just said, you know, it doesn't meet our standards, which is a nice way also of backing

00:34:00.480 down and saying, we don't need the hassle.

00:34:02.860 He wants his name to continue to be, you know, talked about.

00:34:06.940 I didn't know who this guy was.

00:34:08.120 I know now because we're talking about it.

00:34:10.480 He doesn't want to go away.

00:34:12.080 He loses his 15 minutes.

00:34:13.800 Oh, no.

00:34:14.100 He's, my team informs me he's huge on Instagram. 0.74

00:34:18.260 Like, this gross, troll-y kind of guy who's, like, never seen a journalism line he doesn't

00:34:25.260 want to cross, in my opinion, has got this huge following because his whole business is 1.00

00:34:30.420 Trump sucks. 0.99

00:34:32.620 And I know all the ways in which he sucks, and I'll tell you all the evil secrets of 1.00

00:34:36.460 Trump. 0.99

00:34:37.000 He wants to stay relevant.

00:34:38.240 This is keeping him relevant.

00:34:39.400 Yeah.

00:34:39.600 That's right.

00:34:40.240 So maybe it was a mistake for Melania's lawyers to send the nasty gram to him because they

00:34:44.580 opened the door.

00:34:45.160 We'll have to see how they respond.

00:34:46.260 Let's keep going because there's news on Diddy.

00:34:48.860 The latest is as follows.

00:34:50.600 This is via ABC.

00:34:51.880 L.A. Sheriff's Department investigating new sexual assault allegations against Diddy.

00:34:58.300 The L.A. County Sheriff's Department says it's looking into new allegations.

00:35:01.500 They say they've received a report on Friday from a police department in Florida, Mark,

00:35:05.340 your backyard, where the alleged victim lives.

00:35:08.620 But this is the L.A. County Sheriff's Special Victims Unit is going to investigate it.

00:35:13.020 A spokesperson for the Largo, Florida, PD told ABC the department assisted in this investigation

00:35:20.540 over happening in California with whether Combs sexually assaulted a man in 2020.

00:35:28.580 There's a 10-year statute of limitations, so we would be within it.

00:35:31.980 The victim's name is redacted on the report, but music producer Jonathan Hay identified himself

00:35:37.300 as the complainant in social media posts that have since been removed.

00:35:40.720 Hay also identified himself as one of the John Doe's who filed a civil lawsuit against Combs in July.

00:35:45.800 According to the police department, Combs pleasured himself in front of Hay and asked Hay to,

00:35:49.680 quote, finish him off, forgive me, listening audience, in February 2020.

00:35:53.480 Hay said he did not respond because he was in shock and that Combs then tossed a, oh gosh,

00:35:58.540 semen-stained shirt at him.

00:36:00.580 It also details an alleged incident in March of 2021, so a separate one, in which Hay says,

00:36:05.620 C.J. Wallace, the son of the late rapper Christopher Wallace, a.k.a. the notorious B.I.G.,

00:36:11.920 took him to a location where two men put an item over Hay's head before Sean Combs once again 0.79

00:36:17.680 enters the picture and allegedly sexually assaulted him orally several times.

00:36:24.460 The report is that Hay provided Largo police with pictures and videos to show he was collaborating

00:36:29.680 with C.J. Wallace on a music project, which he said led to him being introduced to Combs

00:36:33.880 and the incidents occurring.

00:36:36.660 Wallace filed a counterclaim against Hay in Florida last week, denying what he said were

00:36:41.820 wildly false and defamatory allegations, calling them in part a calculated smear campaign

00:36:46.320 intended to damage him.

00:36:48.520 And a lawyer representing Combs said in a statement,

00:36:50.360 he cannot address every meritless allegation in what's become a media circus, but making

00:36:56.020 it absolutely clear, Combs categorically denies as false and defamatory all of these claims

00:37:02.180 and looks forward to vindicating himself in court.

00:37:04.740 That's a lot.

00:37:06.220 How the hell do they get to the bottom of this one, guys?

00:37:09.060 Well, you know, we discussed this on, you know, a little podcast called MK True Crime the

00:37:13.880 other day.

00:37:14.460 And one thing that I didn't hear you say that I read in our materials was that the guy,

00:37:19.720 the alleged victim, underwent a rape screening scenario.

00:37:24.820 Now, that doesn't mean he's telling the truth, but I always look for that.

00:37:28.860 Did he really succumb to greater scrutiny to his allegations or did he run to the nearest

00:37:35.280 billboard and find an attorney for a money grab?

00:37:38.500 This could be that.

00:37:40.500 But I like that he is cooperating with law enforcement.

00:37:44.600 I like that there are other witnesses that are involved that could corroborate his statement.

00:37:50.540 And also, candidly, does not seem like an allegation that's inconsistent with what we

00:37:54.660 learned about what his M.O. is.

00:37:56.500 You know, anything goes with him.

00:37:57.940 It is a little inconsistent.

00:37:59.500 It is a little inconsistent.

00:38:00.720 Because it didn't involve lube?

00:38:02.020 Come on.

00:38:02.260 It's inconsistent because it didn't involve like a woman.

00:38:04.680 I mean, I have to say, there were rumors that Sean Combs was gay.

00:38:09.420 We heard rumors like that before the trial.

00:38:12.400 But in all those weeks of testimony, Ashley, we never heard about Sean Combs getting it

00:38:17.380 on with the male escorts.

00:38:18.460 It was only that he liked to watch the women do it. 0.99

00:38:21.260 Right.

00:38:21.580 Completely.

00:38:22.180 And it just, it seems odd.

00:38:23.580 There's no allegation of force.

00:38:24.720 This isn't a kid.

00:38:25.540 You know, when you have a child, the force doesn't need to be shown.

00:38:28.320 But when you have an adult, you have to actually show force for a sex crime.

00:38:30.940 So you've got to show some type of, you know, did you use a weapon?

00:38:33.780 Did you hold him down?

00:38:34.440 Did you lock him up?

00:38:35.120 Something like that.

00:38:36.480 Did he, did he, I mean, if you just think about the actual act, where is the force?

00:38:40.340 And where, you know, what happened when he was actually trying to get him to do this?

00:38:44.580 That's a good question.

00:38:45.300 Did he bite down?

00:38:45.800 Like what, you know, I mean, it's kind of gross to think about.

00:38:48.020 But think about it.

00:38:49.320 And there's ways that you could defend yourself in this type of case.

00:38:52.760 Just doesn't make sense.

00:38:53.560 As a grown man.

00:38:54.480 Go ahead, Phil.

00:38:54.900 On its face.

00:38:55.800 On its face, you know, you could say, all right, well, this is Diddy.

00:38:58.700 Everybody knows how Diddy is.

00:39:00.200 They could see this happening.

00:39:01.340 But setting that aside, look, this is six years later.

00:39:05.520 And we always have to ask the question, what is the reason for bringing this now?

00:39:10.620 Okay.

00:39:11.140 Was it, is it, are you bringing it now because somehow you now have more evidence than you

00:39:14.880 had back in 2020?

00:39:16.400 I think the answer to that is absolutely no.

00:39:18.540 Because as time goes by, you tend to have less evidence to support your claims.

00:39:23.280 The only thing he's got going for him now that might support his claims is that Diddy is

00:39:28.240 now a known sex offender, right?

00:39:30.480 And a known criminal.

00:39:31.440 He's been convicted.

00:39:32.240 He's in prison for it.

00:39:33.480 And so everybody knows what Diddy really is, okay?

00:39:37.840 And so he's playing, in my opinion, into that public sentiment, trying to capitalize on

00:39:43.120 it.

00:39:44.280 It, you know, it, maybe it's true.

00:39:46.340 I don't know.

00:39:46.760 But I think that his ability to prove that it's true, which is what you have to have

00:39:50.600 in a court of law, is proof.

00:39:52.660 And certainly if they're talking about a criminal case, proof beyond a reasonable doubt, they're

00:39:56.740 going to have to have something.

00:39:58.120 They're going to have to have videos, photographs, actual DNA evidence, witnesses, something other

00:40:03.720 than just this bare bones claim.

00:40:05.460 What about Phil Holloway, the fact that now he's a convicted sex offender?

00:40:11.020 I mean, like, all that's going to come in, right?

00:40:13.620 That can come in, and the jury could hear about the prior conviction.

00:40:17.220 Yeah, I mean, so maybe.

00:40:18.220 So look, let's just hypothetically say that he gets indicted and charged with this sexual

00:40:22.280 assault from back in 2020.

00:40:25.140 In order to, you know, bring someone's character in, there's lots of safeguards that are intended

00:40:32.020 to cause criminal charges to stand on their own.

00:40:35.660 We can't essentially convict people because of their general bad character.

00:40:39.560 But we've done it before.

00:40:40.700 But here's the thing, regardless of whether or not this evidence actually comes in, whoever's

00:40:46.060 on this hypothetical jury in this hypothetical criminal case already knows what kind of person

00:40:51.080 did he is.

00:40:51.760 So, you know, you could, I guess, theoretically say a jury might could find him guilty just

00:40:57.560 because they know independently of any evidence that comes into a courtroom what kind of person

00:41:02.400 did he is. 0.95

00:41:02.800 Why are you shaking your butt no, Mark? 0.93

00:41:03.920 The judge would tell them, no, you can't do that. 0.93

00:41:05.720 Because we're, I'm surprised that everybody is conceding, especially two sharp defense

00:41:09.640 lawyers here, that that testimony would come out in this case.

00:41:13.680 I didn't concede that.

00:41:14.580 I said the jury already knows it.

00:41:16.240 I got it.

00:41:17.120 Well, I'm asking whether it would, whether it would come in.

00:41:19.080 Not in a million, not without me yelling at the judge.

00:41:23.060 The, you can't plausibly analogize the fact that the man was convicted solely, this is all

00:41:28.620 he was convicted of, you know, transporting sex workers across state lines.

00:41:34.520 That's what he's accused of.

00:41:35.820 Now you have a case where he's accused of forcing his most private item into this guy's

00:41:42.620 mouth.

00:41:43.320 And I don't see how you plausibly analogize those cases.

00:41:47.360 I didn't know what to say.

00:41:48.640 Well, and if it comes in, if the conviction for prostitution comes in, maybe that's what

00:41:52.280 this was, you know, you could always defend it that way.

00:41:54.960 Well, do you think it's, it's interesting to me, you guys, that they're apparently going

00:41:58.900 to the cops, you know, because Mark, you are the king of seeing the money grab in these

00:42:04.140 cases.

00:42:04.660 I mean, we've had countless segments where you actually hold out a little $20 bill and

00:42:09.240 grab at it, but he didn't do that.

00:42:11.860 He went to the cops first, which I don't know that I think that could help him.

00:42:15.820 Am I wrong?

00:42:16.740 Yeah, no, it definitely will help.

00:42:18.160 And Phil makes a great point.

00:42:19.440 You know, the delayed reporting that never helps, but a lot of people who've gone through

00:42:23.180 tremendous trauma, it takes time for them to go through it.

00:42:26.680 They know they're going up the all great, powerful, you know, Diddy, it's going to be

00:42:30.620 hard to win.

00:42:31.920 It's going to be hard to prevail.

00:42:33.620 And so, yeah, maybe he waited for the right moment, the right climate.

00:42:37.360 It doesn't mean that his allegations aren't any less true.

00:42:40.440 And he's within the statute of limitations.

00:42:42.280 So, all right, quickly, before we leave the subject of Diddy, report from the New York

00:42:45.420 Post that his prison release date has been pushed back by one month that he's been given

00:42:50.780 an extra month of punishment, they report, allegedly, that the reason, again, it remains

00:42:56.620 unclear, but they're citing TMZ for the proposition that he was in trouble with prison officials

00:43:01.580 earlier this month for consuming homemade alcohol made of, I mean, everyone wants to

00:43:06.460 know what it's made of, fermented sugar, Fanta, soda, and apples.

00:43:13.280 Oh, yeah.

00:43:13.580 It's great, great vintage.

00:43:14.720 Toilet one.

00:43:15.780 And how do you turn that in an apple?

00:43:16.780 They make it in a toilet.

00:43:18.120 They do?

00:43:19.000 Ew. 0.69

00:43:19.760 It's so gross. 0.93

00:43:20.800 Ew. 0.74

00:43:21.360 There's only one toilet.

00:43:22.680 It has to be used for the other things, too.

00:43:24.360 So, you've got to really want your alcohol.

00:43:26.740 Jailers can't be choosers.

00:43:28.280 Megan, I remember there was testimony at the sentencing hearing that he'd overcome his

00:43:32.940 substance abuse issues and all, but now we hear that he's-

00:43:35.700 That wasn't authentic?

00:43:36.840 He's desperate enough that he's going to drink hooch out of the toilet?

00:43:40.000 What's going on?

00:43:40.520 At a time, by the way, that he's earning probably a year off of his sentence by attending

00:43:45.300 the federal RDAP program, where he's supposed to rid himself of drugs and alcohol.

00:43:49.860 So, there's the irony.

00:43:51.400 Assuming it to be true, his people say it's not.

00:43:53.540 He's like, your honor, I thought that was Fanta.

00:43:55.720 I thought it was Fanta and apples.

00:43:56.820 That's all I thought I was drinking.

00:43:57.800 I was thirsty.

00:43:59.180 Well, it doesn't seem like he's going so well for him there.

00:44:00.760 All right, let's keep going.

00:44:01.480 There's more yet to do.

00:44:02.700 So, there is a bizarre case, we've covered it before, by this guy.

00:44:09.380 He's a singer.

00:44:10.360 He goes by David, but he spells his name D, the numeral four, V, D.

00:44:17.000 And now, and what happened with David was he was apparently seeing a much younger girl who

00:44:22.460 was a teenager, and his car was towed.

00:44:26.260 It was put in an impound lot, and lo and behold, her remains, her severed remains were found in

00:44:32.680 his car.

00:44:33.840 And we've been waiting now for weeks to see whether he would be arrested because it's his

00:44:39.980 car.

00:44:40.340 It's his girlfriend, and she was decomposing in his vehicle.

00:44:46.700 Now, the latest via ABC News is that he is now officially considered, quote, a suspect,

00:44:52.380 which is sort of an interesting thing to release.

00:44:54.440 What do you mean he's officially?

00:44:55.440 Like, the cops must want this out there.

00:44:58.140 The Los Angeles County Medical Examiner, still not determined to cause a manner of death for

00:45:01.900 the teen, identified as 15-year-old Celeste Rivas Hernandez.

00:45:06.040 Um, but investigators say they believe that the medical examiner will determine the cause of

00:45:12.160 death soon, and they apparently, apparently want this out there that they now consider him

00:45:16.380 a suspect.

00:45:17.240 They allege he's not cooperating with the investigation.

00:45:21.240 Um, they did look, they searched the home where David has been living, um, shortly after

00:45:29.100 they found and identified her body.

00:45:31.100 So what do we make of the fact that the headline now is not he's under arrest.

00:45:36.040 It's not he's brought in for questioning, but he is officially considered a suspect.

00:45:40.640 I think they're putting the screws to the other people.

00:45:42.860 They think someone else is involved, and I think they're listing him as a suspect so they

00:45:46.340 can start to, to rattle the cages of witnesses.

00:45:49.200 You know, hopefully those folks will come forward because the first person to come forward

00:45:52.120 tends to get the deal.

00:45:53.260 So I think they're trying to get snitches to come out from the woodworks. 0.76

00:45:56.380 Yeah, Ashley's right.

00:45:57.500 Here's the thing.

00:45:58.180 We learned with Casey Anthony that when you've got decomposing bodies and you don't have a

00:46:02.340 busload of nuns to say how it got there, what do you charge them with? 0.99

00:46:06.040 Is it first degree murder, second degree murder, manslaughter?

00:46:09.600 You know, even if you think he's involved, how do you know?

00:46:12.840 So they look and they're desperate.

00:46:14.180 They need witnesses.

00:46:15.220 I don't believe the statement that they made, the claim that they don't know the cause and

00:46:20.640 manner of death.

00:46:21.300 I find that very, very difficult to believe at this point because even when you have bodies

00:46:25.700 that are mutilated like this, good medical, forensic medical examiners can get to the

00:46:30.680 cause and manner of death usually pretty quickly.

00:46:33.960 Sometimes it may take a little longer if the body's in really bad shape.

00:46:37.000 But by this point, I think they pretty well know what the cause and manner of death was.

00:46:41.300 We reported on MK True Crime just within the last week or two that the Los Angeles law enforcement

00:46:47.320 authorities were essentially at a standstill with this.

00:46:49.500 And they were saying, look, we've got no evidence of any additional crime.

00:46:52.480 But then there was this public freakout.

00:46:54.660 The public put a lot of pressure on law enforcement in L.A.

00:46:57.900 And now we've got them saying, OK, there's a suspect.

00:47:02.460 A suspect in what?

00:47:03.480 Is he a suspect in concealing the death or is he possibly a suspect probably, hopefully,

00:47:08.700 in connection with her death?

00:47:10.040 But there's another piece of this that could be and I think should be and hopefully has

00:47:15.060 been and is being investigated.

00:47:16.700 It's the nature of his relationship with this child.

00:47:19.600 And so that ought to be something that through forensics and through the digital fingerprint

00:47:26.940 that everybody leaves behind, they ought to be able to go back and piece together a timeline

00:47:31.600 that documents this relationship and documents the nature of it.

00:47:36.420 And it wouldn't surprise me if we don't wind up seeing charges in connection with that piece

00:47:40.420 of this.

00:47:40.680 I just wonder what they have because I feel like if they had done a luminol search for blood

00:47:45.160 evidence in his house, we might know there probably would be an arrest by now.

00:47:48.840 It's been months and there's no arrest.

00:47:52.140 I'm starting to wonder whether they have it.

00:47:54.640 All right.

00:47:54.780 We've got to finish with Kim Kardashian, who is dying to do what you three do, what I once

00:48:00.460 did for nearly 10 years.

00:48:02.520 And that is to be to be a practicing attorney.

00:48:08.100 She can't do it so far.

00:48:10.900 She's she didn't go to law school. 1.00

00:48:12.480 She's doing like an apprentice program, which you can do in some states, including California,

00:48:15.780 where she lives, where you work under the apprenticeship of an existing lawyer.

00:48:19.700 Then you have to take the baby bar after year one, which she did.

00:48:23.020 She failed it several times and then eventually, I guess, passed.

00:48:25.880 And now she's trying to take the real bar in California and she failed miserably. 0.91

00:48:30.080 Here she is in a video.

00:48:32.160 She posted of herself crying while preparing for it.

00:48:34.460 Didn't go well.

00:48:35.300 Sot 38.

00:48:35.840 No, I don't have this.

00:48:38.760 I got this. 1.00

00:48:42.680 Shit. 1.00

00:48:44.000 I just, I just, I really want it. 0.99

00:48:48.740 I really, really want it. 1.00

00:48:53.400 Fuck, I'm going to film this because. 1.00

00:48:55.880 Oh my God. 1.00

00:48:59.340 I'm just so tired.

00:49:03.480 But it's like every time I feel like I'm a step ahead, something happens to try to stop

00:49:11.320 me from doing this.

00:49:13.520 You didn't go to law school.

00:49:14.720 That's, that's what it is.

00:49:15.720 That's the problem.

00:49:16.500 And I just want to like, a part of me just wants to stop.

00:49:27.120 I just feel like my brain's going to explode and I still have so much more to go.

00:49:37.360 Okay.

00:49:38.480 I want to be sympathetic.

00:49:39.920 I really do.

00:49:40.340 I know.

00:49:40.980 Not everyone is meant to be a lawyer, guys.

00:49:42.920 No.

00:49:43.220 And we don't need more lawyers.

00:49:44.740 We need better lawyers.

00:49:46.080 Yes.

00:49:46.400 We do.

00:49:47.220 Like I'm in court every day.

00:49:48.580 We need better lawyers.

00:49:49.900 We need a higher standard.

00:49:51.300 You don't see her as the answer to this problem, Ashley?

00:49:53.780 No.

00:49:54.260 No, I do not see her as the answer.

00:49:56.300 And I definitely don't think someone who just keeps trying to pass the bar, hoping that

00:49:59.980 one time it'll stick, is the answer.

00:50:02.660 We don't need these people in court.

00:50:04.260 Like it's, it's insane to me.

00:50:06.320 Well, she should have gone to law school. 0.94

00:50:07.760 Okay.

00:50:08.080 Because, you know, look, I, look, I give everybody credit for trying and pursuing their dream and

00:50:12.260 so on and so forth.

00:50:12.880 But it seems to me that maybe she's just in this for social media clicks, right?

00:50:18.640 And to become even a bigger influencer on social media, because that seems to be what's

00:50:23.860 really going on.

00:50:25.000 Look, you need to go to law school because the bar exams, I got news for you guys.

00:50:29.760 It's based on the stuff that is taught in law school.

00:50:33.500 Hello?

00:50:33.660 And doing an apprenticeship, you just don't know whether or not somebody's getting the education

00:50:38.060 that's necessary to pass the bar.

00:50:40.300 I suppose you would do it if you apprenticed under a really talented lawyer and teacher,

00:50:43.620 but she apparently hasn't.

00:50:45.160 And let's face it, she's not going to Mensa meetings on her days off.

00:50:48.020 She's complaining in the video, Mark, that she's been studying for four months straight.

00:50:53.000 Hello?

00:50:53.780 We all did that.

00:50:55.180 It's called preparing for the bar.

00:50:57.120 Okay.

00:50:57.560 All right.

00:50:57.820 So three things.

00:50:58.720 One, didn't know you can become a lawyer without going to law school.

00:51:02.000 I would have done that.

00:51:03.160 Secondly, that was me.

00:51:05.280 I cried many times like that before selfies, so no one ever saw it.

00:51:09.920 And third, I'm going to throw this out there, controversial.

00:51:13.280 Her heart might be in the right place.

00:51:15.600 There might be some defendants who get attention if she's a lawyer that wouldn't ordinarily 0.98

00:51:19.780 do that.

00:51:20.360 And if some of them are innocent, that might be a good thing.

00:51:23.340 She's already calling attention to cases with her fame. 1.00

00:51:26.460 But as a lawyer.

00:51:27.340 We do not need another knucklehead lawyer.

00:51:29.960 No.

00:51:30.140 This is a vanity project for her because she wants to be taken seriously in the intellectual

00:51:34.960 department. 0.99

00:51:35.880 She should just be happy with what she has, which is enormous fame and an enormous ass. 1.00

00:51:41.140 Love you all. 0.98

00:51:42.020 See you the next time.

00:51:43.460 Good to see you.

00:51:44.080 Thanks, Megan.

00:51:44.820 Take care.

00:51:45.480 Thank you.

00:51:46.640 Throughout history, what's the first freedom tyrants try to silence?

00:51:50.600 Religious liberty.

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00:52:17.680 That's firstliberty.org slash Megan.

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00:53:27.040 Isn't it great to be together?

00:53:28.540 It's so great to see you!

00:53:31.040 You're not alone.

00:53:32.120 It's only the liberal media and the haters who want you to think that.

00:53:34.960 We're in the majority right now.

00:53:36.400 We're from Chicago.

00:53:37.460 We flew in just for this.

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00:53:40.920 And then after what happened to Charlie, I'm like, we definitely have to go.

00:53:43.920 Don't miss your last chance to be part of the Megyn Kelly Live Tour.

00:53:47.520 It's a very important time in our country, Megyn.

00:53:50.280 Stand firmly.

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00:53:54.140 Next stops, Bakersfield, Anaheim, and the grand finale in Glendale, Arizona, featuring special guest Erica Kirk.

00:54:01.960 I really genuinely feel like it's more important right now than ever.

00:54:06.240 You know, for all the reasons.

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00:54:10.900 The biggest thing we can do is be unafraid.

00:54:13.160 So go get your tickets right now before they sell out.

00:54:19.040 MegynKelly.com.

00:54:20.060 Presented by Y Refi and SiriusXM.

00:54:27.120 Welcome back to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:54:28.760 We are live from Bakersfield, California today, where we are embarking on the third and final leg of our MK Live Tour.

00:54:37.240 If you want to get tickets for tonight, tomorrow, not sure if you can get them for sale for Glendale, but you can check at MegynKelly.com.

00:54:43.940 Really looking forward to seeing you all.

00:54:45.960 So we're doing our live show from Bakersfield today.

00:54:48.820 Link Lauren is my guest today, MK Media star and host of Spot On with Link Lauren.

00:54:54.840 Link, great to have you.

00:54:55.880 Thanks for doing this.

00:54:57.140 Hey, thanks for having me.

00:54:58.140 Great to be here.

00:54:59.200 You've had a busy couple of days.

00:55:00.580 Have you been following President Trump and the first lady around?

00:55:03.620 So it has been a really crazy last few days.

00:55:06.700 I'm so grateful.

00:55:07.740 I'll give you the cliff notes and then we're going to do a full breakdown on Spot On.

00:55:11.220 So I won't bore everyone with it right now.

00:55:13.440 But the first lady took a trip to North Carolina with the second lady, Usha Vance. 1.00

00:55:17.420 And they were going for Thanksgiving to meet with military families and kids and troops and Marines.

00:55:23.800 And they hit me up a few days before and they said, you wouldn't want to come, would you?

00:55:27.740 And I said, no, I'm only the biggest fan of the first lady.

00:55:30.580 Yes, I would like to come on the plane with the first lady. 0.99

00:55:33.180 And so I immediately came to D.C.

00:55:35.500 We met at the White House.

00:55:36.860 We took a motorcade to the plane.

00:55:38.660 The first lady looked beautiful. 1.00

00:55:40.120 The second lady looked beautiful. 1.00

00:55:41.960 And then we landed in North Carolina and they went to Lejeune High School and they met with all of these students.

00:55:46.580 And they did a seminar on AI and how they're incorporating AI into their classrooms.

00:55:51.600 Then they met with these young kids at the elementary school.

00:55:54.420 And you know me, Megan, I'm very judgmental, right?

00:55:57.840 I'm very judgmental.

00:55:58.580 I might love someone.

00:55:59.360 In a good way.

00:56:00.200 In a good way, yeah.

00:56:00.820 I might love someone, but I'm also judgmental and sort of looking at them going, okay, what's going on?

00:56:05.880 What are they really like?

00:56:06.900 And I thought this would be an opportunity to see the first lady up close. 0.84

00:56:10.460 Because something I talk about a lot is sort of how Michelle Obama and liberal first ladies get a pass on everything, right?

00:56:16.760 They can do a tour talking about their hair and makeup and nobody says anything, right?

00:56:21.100 They're praised.

00:56:21.480 And how racist they are.

00:56:22.800 Yeah. 0.90

00:56:23.000 And how racist they are.

00:56:24.380 And they're praised and beloved.

00:56:26.500 But when first lady Melania Trump does anything, she's pretty maligned by the mainstream media for doing, you know, nothing or even doing the same things. 0.99

00:56:33.280 And so I thought, okay, I want to go see her in person.

00:56:35.640 And they gave us unfettered access.

00:56:38.060 We're, like, hanging out in this classroom with her and all of these kids.

00:56:41.020 The kids, what was really emotional, a lot of the kids, their parents were deployed.

00:56:45.380 They might not be home for the holidays.

00:56:47.080 They were so excited to see the first lady. 0.93

00:56:49.400 They're like, oh, my God, your husband's the president.

00:56:51.460 And, like, some of the kids were old enough to understand.

00:56:53.860 But what I really liked, and like I said, I'm judgmental, there was no moment where I felt like she was rushing through for a photo op.

00:57:02.300 There was no moment where I felt like, okay, we're going to go see this kid and then we're going to do this.

00:57:06.340 We're going to do this.

00:57:07.080 She gave every kid ample time.

00:57:09.620 She didn't care.

00:57:10.240 You can hold the motorcade.

00:57:11.380 You can hold the plane.

00:57:12.300 I'm going to hang out with these kids.

00:57:13.640 We're going to do this.

00:57:14.440 They're throwing stuff at her, throwing things on her head.

00:57:17.100 They're cutting stuff up.

00:57:17.980 I mean, they're being rambunctious kids.

00:57:19.420 And that's when I thought, okay, this is a real badass woman right here, the first lady. 1.00

00:57:24.940 She's the epitome of class, and it doesn't matter how much they throw at her, and the mainstream media loathes her for no other reason than she's stuck by Donald Trump. 1.00

00:57:35.060 She's married to him.

00:57:36.360 She always maintains her dignity.

00:57:38.680 I want to show the audience just a little bit of her interaction.

00:57:41.200 This is with a little girl at the Delatio Elementary School in North Carolina.

00:57:50.200 Here it is.

00:57:50.560 Shorts Hot, number one.

00:58:02.320 Oh, my gosh.

00:58:03.520 That's so adorable.

00:58:05.620 She's sitting next to a little girl, telling the little girl she's so beautiful.

00:58:09.020 And Melania's smile, of course, is 1,000 watt. 0.74

00:58:11.980 And the little girl's looking up at her and kind of feeling self-conscious.

00:58:15.700 It's a beautiful moment, one you will never see on the vast majority of the MSM because it has the unfortunate side effect of making Melania look human and kind.

00:58:26.300 Well, that's why I'm so grateful they invited me because I don't have an editor I report to, right?

00:58:30.920 So all the other reporters in the pool, they have to file and get it through this and that and the whole rigmarole.

00:58:35.220 I just took that video on my phone.

00:58:36.940 I mean, we're a few feet from the first lady. 1.00

00:58:38.660 I'm just taking videos on my phone and posting them up.

00:58:41.120 And they're getting tons and tons of views while we're there on the ground.

00:58:44.500 And people are like, oh, we've never seen this side to her.

00:58:46.720 Or we bought into the narrative that was in the mainstream media.

00:58:49.720 But I'm here to tell you, like, I can spot a fake and a phony.

00:58:52.540 I can spot a fake Birkin.

00:58:53.680 I can spot a fake person.

00:58:55.220 There was nothing fake about her.

00:58:58.820 And I was like, okay, she's not rushing.

00:59:00.840 She's not breezing through.

00:59:02.300 Every kid is getting time.

00:59:03.400 She was not fazed at all.

00:59:05.020 The kids were jumping and throwing things.

00:59:07.320 So, no, I absolutely have the utmost respect for her.

00:59:09.860 I also thought the second lady, Usha Vance, was really cool, too. 0.58

00:59:13.200 I hadn't ever seen her.

00:59:14.160 By the way, Link, can I just say, if second lady, Usha Vance, were second lady in a Democrat administration, 1.00

00:59:21.260 she already would have been on the cover of several magazines.

00:59:24.240 She's stunning.

00:59:25.140 She, too, is the epitome of class.

00:59:27.440 She's got amazing style. 0.98

00:59:29.140 And she happens to be a minority, which normally the left loves. 0.99

00:59:33.280 They love to celebrate it.

00:59:34.300 She gets a hero's welcome when she walks in during this Thanksgiving visit with North Carolina military families at Camp Lejeune.

00:59:42.340 I'm going to show a little bit of it here.

00:59:43.640 It's up, too.

00:59:45.500 It's her and the line.

00:59:52.680 Aw.

00:59:57.000 Okay, do you remember it wasn't so long ago that they tried to sell us on Michelle Obama and second lady, then Jill Biden,

01:00:10.740 being the iconoclasts of style that we were supposed to look up to for every, you know, boot they donned on their feet?

01:00:18.040 And it was a lie.

01:00:19.340 I mean, everyone saw that it was a lie.

01:00:21.000 Meanwhile, you've got these two knockouts walking in there. 1.00

01:00:24.300 No one's going to profile them.

01:00:25.380 They're not going to be on the cover of magazines.

01:00:27.000 They're only going to be covered in dripping vitriol from virtually every publication that writes about them because of who they're married to and the fact that they're Republicans. 0.86

01:00:35.540 No, absolutely.

01:00:36.460 I probably do a video or a segment on the podcast every single week about this.

01:00:40.760 That's why I was so excited when they called and said, do you want to come?

01:00:43.240 Because something I've covered a lot, and I cover a lot, are the double standards in politics, right?

01:00:47.340 I did this with the tariffs, right?

01:00:48.780 Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi, there were a thousand clips of them fighting for years they wanted tariffs, for decades.

01:00:54.180 We want tariffs.

01:00:55.100 We want tariffs.

01:00:56.000 The second President Trump said he wanted tariffs, all hell broke loose, and they were fighting him tooth and nail, right?

01:01:00.820 First Lady Melania Trump, she's self-made. 1.00

01:01:03.640 She's an immigrant. 1.00

01:01:04.540 She speaks five languages.

01:01:05.820 Usha Vance, her family immigrated to this country the right way.

01:01:09.280 If they had a D next to their names, of course they would be on the cover of Vogue by now 15,000 times.

01:01:14.940 But what do they do?

01:01:15.620 They put Jill Biden, Michelle Obama on the cover of Vogue, and this is how liberal women treat conservative women, right? 0.94

01:01:21.760 I just did a whole thing on this.

01:01:23.320 Liberal women will absolutely attack conservative women, which shows that all of the female empowerment, feminism, dress for success stuff that they talk about is a bunch of BS if you don't extend it to women who happen to vote a little bit differently than you do or happen to be married to a Republican, right? 1.00

01:01:39.260 So that's why I just don't buy into all of the liberal feminism, and I was excited to see them. 1.00

01:01:43.460 Just to jump in on it, also, Usha Vance, in addition to being stunning, and a mother and a wife, is a very successful attorney.

01:01:51.420 She was at the top of her Yale Law School class.

01:01:53.340 That's why she wound up clerking for Supreme Court for United States Chief Justice John Roberts. 0.56

01:01:59.620 You don't just give that job to anybody.

01:02:01.520 While pregnant, I mean, normally the left would be celebrating her universally.

01:02:07.080 And by the way, I don't even know what her politics are.

01:02:10.180 You know, like, she doesn't talk about her politics a lot.

01:02:12.160 I think she might be an independent and not really even necessarily a Republican, but who cares?

01:02:17.500 She won't get any accolades because she's married to J.D.

01:02:20.440 So whatever, we're used to it, but it's always worth pointing out because those two women are worthy of celebration and no one else is going to do it.

01:02:27.140 Okay, speaking of Democrats on the left who will never praise people over on the right, Jasmine Crockett. 0.85

01:02:33.380 But she's run out of actual villains over on the right, so she's starting to make them up.

01:02:38.540 Trying to say somebody like a Lee Zeldin, who almost became governor of New York four years ago, a Republican, now he's Trump's EPA administrator, took donations from Jeffrey Epstein.

01:02:49.640 Now, we ran this soundbite yesterday.

01:02:50.940 The problem for Jasmine Crockett is not the Jeffrey Epstein from a guy named Dr. Jeffrey Epstein.

01:03:00.340 I think I've been to a Dr. Jeffrey Epstein before in New York.

01:03:02.960 I mean, who hasn't?

01:03:04.400 Yeah.

01:03:05.060 So she got caught. 1.00

01:03:06.500 I mean, she's an idiot. 1.00

01:03:07.420 She doesn't do her homework. 1.00

01:03:08.440 She's careless.

01:03:09.260 And she got caught.

01:03:10.340 And I said yesterday, she's lucky she said that on the House floor, accusing Lee Zeldin of taking donations from the Jeffrey Epstein because he could sue her.

01:03:16.980 It's not true.

01:03:17.940 And it is defamatory.

01:03:19.680 And you can't sue her, though, because she was on the House floor when she said it.

01:03:23.400 And now here she is out there trying to cover it up, trying to pretend she didn't make the error, that, like, it was intentional.

01:03:31.420 And she knew what she was saying might be wrong.

01:03:33.780 In an interview she gave Wednesday to CNN, it's Sot3.

01:03:37.920 Do you want to correct the record on the people?

01:03:39.860 Listen, I never said that it was that Jeffrey Epstein, just so that people understand when you make a donation, your picture is not there.

01:03:45.620 And because they decided to spring this on us in real time, I wanted the Republicans to think about what could potentially happen because I knew that they didn't even try to go through the FEC.

01:03:55.760 So my team, what they did is they Googled.

01:03:57.760 And that is specifically why I said a Jeffrey Epstein.

01:04:00.080 He admitted that he did receive donations from a Jeffrey Epstein.

01:04:03.560 So at least I wasn't trying to mislead people.

01:04:05.620 I literally had maybe 20 minutes before I had to do that debate.

01:04:10.660 Yeah, but people might see that and say, well, you're trying to make it sound like he took money from a registered sex offender.

01:04:16.420 No, but I literally did not know.

01:04:18.120 When you search FEC files, and that's what I had my team to do, I text them and I say, listen, we're going up.

01:04:24.020 They are saying that she took donations.

01:04:25.500 Right, but someone might say, well, your team should have done the homework to make sure it wasn't a convicted sex trafficker.

01:04:29.500 Within 20 minutes, you could not find that out.

01:04:31.820 Oh, my God. 1.00

01:04:32.540 You're an idiot. 1.00

01:04:33.000 Let me tell you something, Link. 1.00

01:04:34.100 There is the standard in law, which is you can defame a public figure like Lee Zeldin if you can prove that you made a false statement about him,

01:04:45.700 and it was made either with malicious intent, that it was made with malicious intent, meaning disregard of the truth, reckless disregard of the truth.

01:04:54.500 That will do it.

01:04:55.400 You knew it was true or untrue, or you were recklessly careless about whether it was true or not.

01:05:01.440 That's what she just did. 0.83

01:05:02.740 The only thing protecting her from a massive lawsuit is the fact that she did it on the House floor. 1.00

01:05:07.440 The nerve.

01:05:08.240 I only had 20 minutes.

01:05:09.560 We didn't know. 1.00

01:05:10.400 That's why you don't say something like that publicly, you absolute cretin. 1.00

01:05:14.800 Yep, absolutely. 0.99

01:05:16.020 I will go back to Jasmine Crockett claims she went to law school. 1.00

01:05:20.240 She claims she passed the bar exam.

01:05:21.940 But sometimes when she talks, it sounds like she got her GED in prison.

01:05:25.180 Okay, and no offense to the inmates out there.

01:05:27.080 We love you. 1.00

01:05:27.640 But Jasmine Crockett, I'm like, you are one of the dumbest, most uncouth women. 1.00

01:05:32.560 And then when you look at your team, the fact that no one on the team stepped in, that's the job of your aides and your advisors to say, yo, yo, yo, let's not go out there and say this or this information isn't correct. 0.99

01:05:41.920 And, you know, when you've lost Caitlyn and you've lost CNN, you might be on the wrong side of history.

01:05:46.540 You know, when you've lost just for the audience who had who didn't see the original soundbite.

01:05:50.700 Here it is from yesterday.

01:05:51.820 It's sat for folks who also took money from somebody named Jeffrey Epstein.

01:05:58.280 As I had my team dig in very quickly, Mitt Romney, the NRCC, Lee Zeldin, George Bush, Wynn Redd, McCain Palin, Rick Lazio.

01:06:12.820 I just want to be clear. If this is the standard that we're going to make, just know we're going to expose it all.

01:06:19.800 Okay, and the reason she was doing that is because she was trying to run cover for this Democrat representative, Stacey Plaskett of the U.S. Virgin Islands, 1.00

01:06:28.820 who was very tight with Jeffrey Epstein, or so it would appear as she was texting him live during a congressional hearing,

01:06:35.660 cross-examining Michael Cohen, Trump's fixer attorney, and she was asking Epstein for dirt on Trump that she could raise with Michael Cohen.

01:06:47.040 So that's Jasmine Crockett saying, oh, these are all the people that he gave to in an effort to diminish the relationship between her fellow representative,

01:06:57.100 this woman who got in trouble yesterday, Blasket, but didn't actually get censored, and Jeffrey Epstein.

01:07:02.200 So she'll run cover for her by condemning all those names you just heard, Mitt Romney, Lee Zeldin, 0.78

01:07:07.320 completely carelessly just because she's got to save her fellow, what, female, black Democrat from the Virgin Islands. 0.95

01:07:14.680 Well, absolutely, and I think it's interesting. The Democrats don't actually care about the facts, right?

01:07:18.940 She's not going to get heat from her own party for this. She's not going to get called in by Mike Johnson or anybody over this.

01:07:24.280 They just like that she's out there and she's loud and she's taking Republicans to task, so they don't care about the truth.

01:07:30.120 But Jasmine Crockett, this isn't the first lie that she spewed. She's gone out there and spread vitriol. 1.00

01:07:34.640 We find out from her team that she's a diva. She wants them to carry her purse around and get her a pillow to prop up her back. 1.00

01:07:40.180 That's who Jasmine Crockett is, and so none of this is shocking to me.

01:07:42.940 I don't think she's in elected office because she's brilliant or because she's in Mensa. 0.96

01:07:46.640 I think she's there because she's loud and they look at her as maybe some resistance-type figure, like a Gavin Newsom, part of the resistance.

01:07:52.980 But they might be resistance, but there's no substance, Megan, with her.

01:07:56.740 I mean, you don't want to sacrifice smart for street.

01:08:00.680 Ideally, you get both if that's your goal, but if you have to choose between one and the other, I'd recommend going for smart.

01:08:06.100 I will say, though, the more time you spend in D.C., you're shocked at how unintelligent some elected officials are.

01:08:13.820 You're like, I could do this.

01:08:15.160 Even in Congress, you walk around, you're like, these are just some random blokes from a county somewhere who ended up in D.C.

01:08:21.380 I think I could do this, you know, so I understand how people end up in D.C. sometimes.

01:08:26.360 They're not intelligent people, everyone.

01:08:28.400 We don't deserve you.

01:08:30.000 You should stay in D.C. just in the capacity that you're in right now.

01:08:32.920 Do not cross over to the other side.

01:08:34.140 We don't deserve you.

01:08:35.960 Trump has been taking a beating from some lately because, like Marjorie Taylor Greene saying he's been spending too much time overseas.

01:08:42.340 He needs to focus on domestic policy.

01:08:44.240 And there are some polls that suggest that's true, that even MAGA feels like enough with the overseas trips.

01:08:49.220 Trump's very defensive of that, saying, you know what, like, I had to strike a deal with China or you'd be paying more on everything.

01:08:54.800 I had to create some peace in the Middle East or we'd have more people dying. 1.00

01:08:58.840 And now Harry Enten over at CNN takes a look at what Trump's approval ratings on foreign policy look like compared to his first term.

01:09:07.120 Take a look at this link, SOT 7.

01:09:08.340 This is one of the areas in which Donald Trump is performing significantly better than he was in term one.

01:09:15.060 One of his best issues relative to term one.

01:09:17.240 What are we talking about?

01:09:18.220 Approve of Trump on foreign policy at this point in term one.

01:09:21.040 Look, Donald Trump was just at a 35 percent approval rating.

01:09:23.600 Up like a rocket.

01:09:24.760 We're talking about 43 percent now.

01:09:26.880 That's an eight point rise on the net approval rating.

01:09:29.340 We're talking about a double digit rise.

01:09:31.400 The American people like much more of what they're seeing from Donald Trump in foreign policy in term two than they did in term number one.

01:09:37.960 All right.

01:09:38.360 21st century foreign policy approval rating at this point in term two.

01:09:41.860 George W. Bush was down at 36 percent.

01:09:44.340 Barack Obama was at 37 percent.

01:09:46.560 Look at this.

01:09:47.360 Donald Trump actually leads the pack at 43 percent.

01:09:50.800 Donald Trump has a higher foreign policy approval rating at this point in a second term than any other president who served their entire second term in the 21st century.

01:10:01.380 This is something I think Donald Trump really likes to look at because the bottom line is this.

01:10:05.560 Presidents like to build their legacies off of foreign policy.

01:10:08.020 And at this particular point, the American people like much more of what Donald Trump's doing on foreign policy than either of the two other 21st century presidents who served at least or served two terms.

01:10:18.960 So, Link, is he getting enough credit?

01:10:21.400 You know, do you think that he's getting a little too much jazz from critics on being overseas fairly frequently as opposed to recognizing he's actually accomplished some amazing things there?

01:10:32.120 And he has been focused on domestic policy.

01:10:34.760 I mean, he can chew gum and walk at the same time.

01:10:37.440 Absolutely.

01:10:37.820 I think people forget how bad it was under Joe Biden.

01:10:41.340 I think they forget, OK, sky high inflation.

01:10:43.820 The border was literally a disaster.

01:10:45.760 We had millions of people pouring into the border.

01:10:48.200 I went down there and saw it for myself in Arizona and Texas.

01:10:51.240 You had needles and kids being trafficked.

01:10:53.080 So now the border is completely secure.

01:10:55.680 We're less than a year into this administration.

01:10:57.560 He's trying to bring world peace.

01:10:59.460 But I understand also there's this despondency of young men online.

01:11:02.960 This is a growing epidemic, actually.

01:11:04.840 And something I talk about a lot is I think one in five young men are what we call NEAT, which means not in education, employment, or training.

01:11:11.520 So they're at home.

01:11:12.260 They're on social media.

01:11:13.520 They're consuming influencers and podcasters.

01:11:15.860 And they feel like the American system isn't working for them.

01:11:18.660 They feel like, I'm not going to own a home like my parents.

01:11:20.940 I'm not going to get a wife or the American dream. 0.98

01:11:22.720 So I can understand why some of these young men are upset, saying, man, cost of living is still tough.

01:11:28.200 Affordability.

01:11:28.920 Now we've got AI coming in and our robot's going to take our jobs.

01:11:31.760 These young men, they are stressed and they were talked into going to college.

01:11:35.260 Now they've got debt.

01:11:36.120 And maybe they can't even get the jobs with those degrees.

01:11:38.460 So I understand young men are frustrated, right?

01:11:41.140 But we can walk and chew gum at the same time.

01:11:43.540 And it is America first to have good relations and good trade with other countries, right?

01:11:48.280 It's America first to not get ripped off by every other country on the globe.

01:11:52.720 And did you not remember when President Trump wrote Art of the Deal?

01:11:55.740 His whole deal is coming in and making deals.

01:11:57.820 He'll negotiate on anything.

01:11:59.060 He'll negotiate on a piece of art.

01:12:00.520 He'll negotiate on a country and tariffs.

01:12:02.440 And so I'm not shocked at all.

01:12:03.540 And I'm happy that we're doing these deals now with these countries.

01:12:06.000 I think we just secured a trillion dollars with the crown prince coming for the dinner the other night.

01:12:09.960 So that's good.

01:12:11.200 You know, this is great.

01:12:12.280 And we'll see how it plays out.

01:12:13.340 How about the makeup between the two top bros, Elon and Trump?

01:12:18.280 Elon was there.

01:12:19.320 They're back.

01:12:20.340 We knew it would happen eventually.

01:12:21.640 But I don't know.

01:12:22.300 I feel better that they made up.

01:12:24.140 Well, I feel like I was a little bit a part of that.

01:12:26.140 So they hit me up and they're like, hey, do you want to cover the dinner tonight? 0.58

01:12:30.100 I said, that huge ass dinner with the crown prince and all these important people? 0.71

01:12:34.260 Yes, but I don't have a tuxedo. 0.98

01:12:35.760 They're like, oh, well, you can't come if you don't have a tuxedo.

01:12:38.060 And I said, well, there's a men's warehouse next to my hotel.

01:12:40.620 Let me see what I can do.

01:12:42.180 So I walk into men's warehouse over here in D.C. with my credit card.

01:12:45.780 And I'm like, I need to be out of here in 10 minutes with a tuxedo.

01:12:48.740 And they said, where are you going?

01:12:49.660 I said, I'm going to the White House, okay, with the press to cover this event.

01:12:52.720 So I go and we get ushered into this room and there's candlelight.

01:12:56.520 And you've got Elon there and Brett Baier and Bill Ackman and Cristiano Ronaldo.

01:13:01.740 And I tweeted a picture.

01:13:03.320 This is my picture.

01:13:04.060 Yes.

01:13:04.300 Okay.

01:13:04.460 Thank you, Steve.

01:13:05.140 I tweeted this picture standing there at the dinner.

01:13:07.980 I said, Elon Musk is at this dinner at the White House.

01:13:10.300 And it started going crazy.

01:13:11.680 And people said, you're not really there.

01:13:13.460 You're lying.

01:13:14.260 You're not in the room.

01:13:15.060 I said, I am in the room.

01:13:16.840 Elon is here.

01:13:17.640 So a makeup is imminent or a makeup is happening, okay?

01:13:21.200 And I'm glad to see the boys back together.

01:13:23.440 And I don't know how I find myself in these situations, okay?

01:13:26.160 I'm like, is that Elon Musk?

01:13:27.440 Hold on now.

01:13:28.420 It's because you say yes to everything, which is good.

01:13:30.920 I will say too, okay, because there are some folks online.

01:13:35.180 They're like, oh, link just popped up out of nowhere and this and that.

01:13:38.060 I work hard, number one.

01:13:39.540 But these people don't remember when I was doing videos on TikTok, I would go to Iowa and

01:13:43.620 I was like traveling around Iowa on a bus.

01:13:45.580 I couldn't even get into GOP primary events.

01:13:49.220 I won't call these people out, but some of them are pretty puny primary candidates.

01:13:53.080 And their team was like, you don't have credentials.

01:13:55.220 You can't come into, you know, the pizza restaurant where we're talking to, you know, seniors. 0.99

01:13:59.840 And so now that I get to cover things, it's like, no, I have actually been doing this

01:14:03.840 for a few years now.

01:14:04.840 I didn't just pop up, you know.

01:14:06.260 And honestly, when it comes to political coverage, people should know it's not that hard.

01:14:10.700 That's how you start.

01:14:11.600 Like, it's not atypical to start in Iowa begging to get into some primary campaign coverage

01:14:16.880 and within two years to be covering the White House.

01:14:19.080 You can do it.

01:14:19.720 All it takes is hard work, ingenuity, and ideally some honesty, which you have.

01:14:23.280 Most don't, and they manage to overcome that too.

01:14:25.820 But your story reminded me of something when I was a very young reporter.

01:14:29.220 I had not yet joined Fox News.

01:14:30.860 I was working for WJLA in Washington, D.C.

01:14:34.240 And they invited me to the radio and television correspondence dinner, which I was so excited

01:14:37.460 to go to because I knew it from broadcast news.

01:14:39.920 I was so excited to be one of the people there.

01:14:41.680 I had on this strapless hot pink dress, which I absolutely loved.

01:14:46.760 And I drove from Baltimore where I was living.

01:14:49.780 It took like an hour and a half.

01:14:50.760 I had these, like, very long spangly earrings on, you know, dazzling sort of fake diamonds.

01:14:57.220 And I went to the dinner, and then I didn't eat anything, you know, because, you know,

01:15:01.580 those dinners, you're, like, glad-handing, and you're moving about the table.

01:15:04.560 I was starving.

01:15:05.660 So on the way home, I went through the McDonald's drive-thru in my outfit, right,

01:15:10.620 with my hair and the dangly earrings.

01:15:12.760 And the guy in the drive-thru window goes, where were you tonight?

01:15:17.120 And I was like, I was having dinner with the president because, you know, the president

01:15:21.500 was there at the time.

01:15:22.260 And he goes, yeah, dinner with the president, and now you're here.

01:15:27.420 That was me.

01:15:28.300 I went by, like, CVS to get some Chobani yogurt and stuff afterward.

01:15:31.900 But, yeah, no, I don't know how I find myself in these situations.

01:15:34.340 I sometimes feel, and I felt this way with the wickless candle, okay, not to get too,

01:15:39.160 like, woo-woo California.

01:15:40.780 This is so not me.

01:15:42.160 But my grandfather, his name was Showboat, okay?

01:15:45.420 He was over the top.

01:15:46.400 His nickname was Showboat.

01:15:47.800 I am the spitting image of my grandfather.

01:15:50.500 Everyone in my family is like, oh, you look like Uncle Boat.

01:15:52.800 I feel like my grandfather is up there pulling strings or something because he was always

01:15:58.100 hyping me up, was always supportive of me.

01:16:00.100 So when I have these opportunities, and my mom texted me last night, she was like,

01:16:03.280 I just prayed to God.

01:16:04.860 I'm so grateful for you.

01:16:05.880 I feel like all the bad things you went through in school and growing up, God knows you're

01:16:09.480 ready to receive these blessings with humility.

01:16:12.060 And I do feel that way.

01:16:13.000 Like, I have so much gratitude, and I'm sure it comes across annoying to the other people

01:16:16.780 in the press pool.

01:16:17.500 I'm like, oh, my God, we're here in the room with the president.

01:16:19.720 But it's like, I'm grateful to be there.

01:16:21.960 Sue me for being excited to be there.

01:16:24.260 Okay.

01:16:24.460 They wear their hatred for Trump openly on their sleeves, so why can't you be the opposite?

01:16:29.080 And that's the way we cover politics.

01:16:31.080 Yesterday, the reporters were so making fun of me in the pool.

01:16:34.500 We go to that big gymnasium where you had the parents and the kids in the stands like

01:16:38.180 we showed earlier, and we're standing or waiting for the first and second lady to come in. 0.89

01:16:42.180 And I hear this yelling and the screaming, and I'm like, what is that?

01:16:45.200 What is that?

01:16:46.080 And some of the other reporters who are like serious DC, you know, journalists, ones from

01:16:49.960 ABC, ones from here, they're like, Link, those ladies are yelling at you. 1.00

01:16:54.080 And I look in the stands, and then these kind of middle-aged conservative looking women, 1.00

01:16:57.620 and they're going, Link, Link, come here, come here, Link.

01:17:00.420 And I'm like, y'all know me?

01:17:01.980 And they're like, yes, come here.

01:17:03.020 And I said, I love you, but I can't come over there because the Secret Service, this

01:17:06.740 isn't my event, okay?

01:17:08.760 And so then when we were leaving the school, there were these older girls that were like, 0.99

01:17:12.020 hey, can we take a picture with you?

01:17:13.020 I'm like, I can't, I can't.

01:17:14.000 We got to get in the motorcade, but stay in school.

01:17:16.380 And then the whole rest of the day, the whole rest of the day, these reporters are making

01:17:21.260 fun of me, which I didn't mind.

01:17:22.400 They were ribbing me.

01:17:23.100 Like, we'd go to the next event.

01:17:24.200 They're like, hey, Link, you might have some fans at this event.

01:17:26.800 You might have some fans.

01:17:27.700 I'm like, I didn't know these women would know me, but we're in a red state, and you've got a lot of 0.99

01:17:31.960 middle-aged conservative women in North Carolina.

01:17:34.400 But the whole day, they were just teasing me, like, hey, get ready for your fans.

01:17:38.240 They might be here.

01:17:39.780 But yeah, no, we all get along.

01:17:41.000 They must be listening to Spot On, part of the MK Media Network.

01:17:43.700 I blame you, Megan.

01:17:44.680 They looked like Megyn Kelly ladies. 1.00

01:17:46.480 They looked like Megyn Kelly people.

01:17:48.000 My ladies? 0.98

01:17:48.900 Awesome.

01:17:49.300 They look like your ladies.

01:17:49.940 Well, good.

01:17:50.200 They have good taste in young, aspiring male reporters.

01:17:53.820 That's clear.

01:17:54.940 All right.

01:17:55.220 You mentioned Megan Markle, and we've got to spend some time on her.

01:17:58.860 We didn't mention her by name, but you mentioned your Wickless candle that you ordered

01:18:01.540 from, as ever, her amazing product line, of which she is a founder.

01:18:07.060 Yeah, it's a female founder. 1.00

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01:22:20.600 We're going to dig into this one today because she is out there.

01:22:24.000 She's a cover girl now from Harper's Bazaar.

01:22:28.440 Do we have the video of her and her stomach turning?

01:22:32.820 Yeah, we have the behind-the-scenes video.

01:22:34.660 A photo shoot for Harper's.

01:22:35.860 Here, watch a little bit of this if you can.

01:22:37.680 It's not 11.

01:22:41.640 For the listening audience, it's her.

01:22:44.380 Trying to look glamorous and dewy.

01:22:48.080 The big eyes.

01:22:49.820 The hand on her chin.

01:22:51.880 The slow head turn.

01:22:53.140 Oh, on the couch, on the settee, with the silk dress.

01:22:58.960 Staring into the camera like an ingenue.

01:23:02.120 Like an innocent.

01:23:04.280 The hand's back.

01:23:05.640 Things she's seen a million times before.

01:23:07.020 She's not a model. 0.99

01:23:08.080 She's just playing one here on TV.

01:23:10.840 About 25,000 outfit changes.

01:23:14.980 Trying to look like Giselle, which she's not.

01:23:17.440 But, oh, all right, I've had enough clapping for herself.

01:23:23.040 That last part was on brand.

01:23:25.680 And she sat for an interview for all of this with somebody named Caitlin Greenidge, 1.00

01:23:33.300 who, as far as I can tell, is an absolute idiot. 1.00

01:23:37.360 Actually, she was so dumb, it was so bad, that I had to ask my team, 1.00

01:23:40.880 who is this person? 1.00

01:23:42.040 Now I find out, okay, for the listening audience, she's a black woman. 0.98

01:23:45.160 And she's Features Director at Harper's Bazaar.

01:23:48.560 Okay, she was formerly the Hodder Fellow at Princeton University's Center for the Arts,

01:23:52.720 Contributing Writer at the New York Times.

01:23:54.840 She had recent articles like November 2025,

01:23:58.560 The Vibe Shift That Wasn't Reports of the Death of Woke,

01:24:01.000 Are Greatly Exaggerated.

01:24:02.820 June 2025, The Institutions Fighting to Save Black History Under Trump.

01:24:09.280 Let's see.

01:24:10.000 Oh, April 2025, Tina Knowles, Beyonce's mother, wrote The Mother of All Memoirs, November 2024.

01:24:17.620 This is how you hashtag win with black women. 1.00

01:24:21.120 And then they're talking about the women who organized the 44,000-person fundraising Zoom for Kamala Harris.

01:24:27.100 There's more about how black women mobilized on Zoom for Kamala Harris. 0.98

01:24:30.580 So, this is who Harper's Bazaar thought would be the right person to profile, Meghan Markle. 0.80

01:24:37.240 And the ridiculous exchange between these two.

01:24:40.820 Here's Meghan on the cover of Harper's. 0.73

01:24:42.600 I'm just going to say it.

01:24:43.320 She doesn't look good.

01:24:44.460 She looks sad.

01:24:47.340 She's makeup-less, which I'm sorry, but it's not good.

01:24:50.500 She needs some eyeliner. 1.00

01:24:51.580 The eyes are too close together, and she looks forlorn.

01:24:54.440 I didn't actually ever realize how much work that eyeliner is doing on her. 0.93

01:24:57.640 And here's just a little bit from the cover piece.

01:25:01.920 A golf cart pulls up at some natural history museum thing she's going to, and the writer's there.

01:25:08.220 A golf cart pulls up, the gravel crunching beneath its tires.

01:25:12.240 The Duchess of Sussex, someone in the scrum announces.

01:25:15.780 Meghan descends.

01:25:17.880 Meghan is attuned to the girls.

01:25:20.260 She asks one about her nails, another about what she's studying.

01:25:22.760 When a girl mentions her love of languages, Meghan lights up.

01:25:25.620 But I'm learning French on Duolingo, she says proudly, adding that she just hit a 90-day streak.

01:25:32.040 I don't know how any woman could see a young girl and not see herself in her, especially at that age, Meghan tells me later.

01:25:39.560 Once again, Meghan Markle makes everything about herself.

01:25:43.860 And then this writer gets into some of her absurdities, like the following.

01:25:47.340 How do powerful women flex? 1.00

01:25:52.280 Do they lead with deference or dominance?

01:25:56.680 Meghan seems to lead with affability. 0.60

01:26:00.000 The warmth with which she greets each of these men in the restaurant where they sat and with which they reciprocate is genuine.

01:26:07.340 With me, her interviewer, where the power balance shifts back and forth.

01:26:12.320 Sorry, no, it doesn't.

01:26:13.260 Even Meghan Markle is definitely out of your league, madam. 1.00

01:26:16.080 She is warm and open, and she always maintains direct eye contact.

01:26:21.180 It's a skill she's honed since childhood.

01:26:24.660 I was such a little nerd, she says.

01:26:26.760 My entire identity was wrapped up in being the smart one.

01:26:31.200 There used to be this show, I'm dating myself, but do you remember?

01:26:34.940 Studs.

01:26:35.700 After school, kids would enact a little makeshift version of Studs to play.

01:26:39.000 They were like, well, Meghan can be the host, she says.

01:26:41.880 I had the personality type of, I can help coordinate, I can help organize, I can facilitate.

01:26:49.220 I think I'm probably the same now.

01:26:52.100 The fear of failure often runs in tandem, writes this reporter, with a millennial desire to achieve.

01:26:57.960 When I broach the topic and ask Meghan what she's learned from her mistake, she deadpans.

01:27:02.720 You learn not to do it again.

01:27:05.880 Which, of course, is untrue in Meghan Markle's case.

01:27:08.320 Link, as you've been calling her, she's, among other things, a disaster tourist who cannot seem to stop herself from taking advantage of places where people have suffered amazing hardship and injecting her photo op right in the middle of it.

01:27:20.000 That's just one point to kick us off.

01:27:22.280 Where would you like to go next?

01:27:23.940 Okay.

01:27:24.700 Meghan Markle always says she's known as the smart one and that her whole identity is wrapped up in being smart. 0.57

01:27:30.380 We're still waiting to see that.

01:27:32.660 Where is that smart identity?

01:27:34.740 Like, was it smart to leave the royal family to go sell jams, jellies, dog biscuits, and wickless candles?

01:27:41.140 Like, you could be royalty right now. 0.96

01:27:43.700 Like, all of these celebrities that you're trying to hang out with and you're hanging out with the Kardashians or hanging out with people who have, like, sex tapes and show their vaginas on camera, you could be British royalty right now. 0.99

01:27:54.480 You know what I'm saying? 0.97

01:27:54.840 You could be eating crumpets and scones.

01:27:56.920 Like, they just had a massive state dinner and a tiara.

01:28:00.020 Look at that state dinner they had recently where President Trump sat next to Catherine and Camilla and the king and the whole delegation.

01:28:06.640 You could have been there at that massive, beautiful state dinner at Windsor.

01:28:10.280 You're hanging out with the Kardashians at a party and then you don't like the way you look in the photos because you look bloated and you allegedly asked for them to be taken down.

01:28:17.940 That's who Meghan Markle is.

01:28:19.160 So she says she's this smart, genius organizer.

01:28:22.420 We're still waiting to see it.

01:28:23.740 You did, like, one drop of your products.

01:28:26.160 I ordered the candle.

01:28:27.580 The candle came without a wick.

01:28:29.600 This is not even a stunt.

01:28:31.380 I literally opened it on camera.

01:28:33.400 Her candle that was $64 was not lightable, okay?

01:28:36.740 It was a metaphor for her career.

01:28:38.500 Nothing was igniting.

01:28:39.740 Nothing was lighting.

01:28:40.660 There was nothing on the inside. 0.95

01:28:41.940 So Meghan Markle, it's actually quite pathetic to see someone fall from grace so hard. 0.91

01:28:47.780 Right. 0.77

01:28:47.960 Let this be a cautionary tale to so many of the women out there who maybe even look up to Meghan Markle, though I don't know how you would have stumbled upon this podcast.

01:28:56.100 The grass is not always greener, okay?

01:28:59.520 You might think you're holding all the cards in life.

01:29:02.140 You got to know what cards you have and what cards you don't.

01:29:05.120 Meghan Markle overplayed her hand. 1.00

01:29:06.680 She thought, I'm going to leave the royal family.

01:29:08.520 They need us more than we need them.

01:29:10.200 We're getting out of here.

01:29:11.200 And in the queen's dying days, they kicked up trouble. 0.98

01:29:14.100 She tried to accuse them of racism.

01:29:15.960 That didn't land.

01:29:16.920 Even at the height of Black Lives Matter, people were like, I don't know if we're buying this whole racism story, you know, with Oprah.

01:29:23.100 So every hand she tried to play failed miserably.

01:29:26.960 She should have just stuck it out and been a royal. 1.00

01:29:29.160 And she would be revered around the world.

01:29:32.020 In no world, no world could Harper's Bazaar ever get Kate Middleton on its cover or to sit for an interview.

01:29:40.060 That is so beneath actual members of the royal family.

01:29:42.620 They'd have to license it to put her on the cover.

01:29:44.700 Just want to.

01:29:45.180 Okay, so let's keep going because there's more.

01:29:47.120 So she writes about how, of course, she always wants us to believe she's just a mom with kids at home.

01:29:50.780 That's what she does. 1.00

01:29:52.440 And they're at an age where they're constantly learning something new.

01:29:56.280 And you can remember as they face things that are insurmountable and say, I know it seems really hard right now, but trust me, that's going to come easily soon.

01:30:06.980 I can give myself the same grace as a founder.

01:30:12.000 She works it in every interview.

01:30:14.460 A founder.

01:30:15.520 It's amazing.

01:30:16.440 Like, I mean, honestly, I'm a founder.

01:30:18.460 I have my own media company.

01:30:19.940 You're a founder.

01:30:20.780 You founded Spot On with Link Lauren.

01:30:22.220 And most normal people don't run around referring to themselves like that because they know it makes them sound completely artificial, narcissistic, and insecure.

01:30:32.840 So she says, I was a founder.

01:30:34.600 Then she writes, there's no such thing.

01:30:35.940 She says, no such thing is perfect.

01:30:38.340 I, too, get to make mistakes.

01:30:41.760 Okay, she goes on and says, this is the writer for Harper's Bazaar.

01:30:45.320 When I ask Megan what she hopes her kids see when they see her working, she tells me, now most of us would say, hopefully they learn the value of hard work, right?

01:30:54.740 I think that would be the first thing that would come to mind.

01:30:56.440 They learn the value.

01:30:57.360 No, this is her.

01:30:59.320 I hope they see the value of being brave.

01:31:04.380 It's like so self-aggrandizing.

01:31:06.440 And then adds, they saw it when the jam was just a pot on the stove bubbling.

01:31:12.340 Link, this woman is beyond.

01:31:14.340 I hope they see my courage and how brave I am.

01:31:17.660 No, you know what's going to happen with these royal kids, okay?

01:31:20.660 They're going to grow up.

01:31:21.600 I'm sure they have, like, privacy controls and adult filters on the kids, you know, phones and computers.

01:31:26.720 Someday, these kids, Archie and Lily bet if they exist, they're going to go to a friend's house.

01:31:32.240 And they're going to Google their parents, and they're going to realize, we could have been royalty this whole time. 0.95

01:31:38.400 We could have been living in a palace, and we're stuck in this kind of compound in Montecito with this crazy woman and her scrawny legs and her jams on the stove. 1.00

01:31:47.040 I would be so pissed, okay? 0.97

01:31:49.220 If I turned 18, this is like princess diaries.

01:31:51.700 If I turned 18 and I found out I could have been royalty the whole time and I was stuck in California with the Kardashians, I would be so upset.

01:31:59.360 And I actually hear that there are some titles available if they would like to adopt me.

01:32:04.340 The Duke of York title seems like it's available.

01:32:06.780 I am ready to be royal.

01:32:08.260 Megan, I love you, and I'm so grateful for you.

01:32:10.600 But if the royal family welcomes me in, y'all will never hear from me again.

01:32:14.020 I will be over there having high tea and crumpets and scones and writing and characters.

01:32:17.320 First you'll give us the exclusive.

01:32:18.640 Then you can dump us in the dirt.

01:32:20.000 Yes, I'll do the exclusive.

01:32:21.400 But no, Megan Markle, fall from grace.

01:32:23.640 We've never seen someone thud so hard.

01:32:25.820 It's crazy.

01:32:26.060 Now, I saved the best part for last.

01:32:27.860 I haven't even gotten to the most absurd part, and it's amazing.

01:32:30.920 It's amazing.

01:32:31.700 This is the only area in which I will give this absurd writer Caitlin Greenidge credit. 1.00

01:32:38.980 It's awesome that she included this detail.

01:32:41.280 Okay, so now she goes to see Megan in New York City.

01:32:45.000 We're in a grand brownstone on the Upper East Side that belongs to one of Megan's friends.

01:32:51.480 So, of course, Megan, when she comes to New York, she can't just get a room at the Plaza or the Ritz.

01:32:55.700 Like the Hyatt.

01:32:56.240 Right, she's got to stay in a friend's brownstone because you see, Link, she's too famous. 0.99

01:33:00.600 She's too famous to walk through a lobby, unlike every other actual celebrity in the world who stay in hotels just fine, including Taylor Swift, with no problem in very many cities, much less a place like New York, which is very used to A-listers, which she is not. 1.00

01:33:16.560 Okay, the writer writes as follows, quote,

01:33:19.920 So, when I enter this brownstone, the house manager announces, Megan, Duchess of Sussex, even though we appear to be the only other two people in the house.

01:33:32.520 And that harkens back to what we read on page one, where she said they were outside the Natural History Museum in Los Angeles to receive a local group of girls.

01:33:44.020 And as the golf cart pulled up, they yelled out,

01:33:48.220 The Duchess of Sussex.

01:33:50.640 She appears to have people yell this about her wherever she goes, even if there's no one else in the home, Link.

01:33:58.720 Like, it's like, Colonel Sanders is here.

01:34:01.940 Like, why does she need to be announced like that?

01:34:04.240 Like, the Duchess of Sussex?

01:34:05.980 Who is that?

01:34:07.100 Who is she? 0.99

01:34:08.080 That doesn't, we don't have titles here.

01:34:09.800 Like, when she walks into Soho House, is she like the Duchess of Soho House?

01:34:13.340 We don't do titles here in the United States.

01:34:15.220 But I actually, I don't think she was alone in the brownstone.

01:34:17.620 I think all of her other personalities were in the house with her.

01:34:20.680 So maybe they have to announce, Megan, the Duchess of Sussex is here.

01:34:24.720 But I've never seen someone dine out so hard on their title.

01:34:29.940 I mean, she is dining out.

01:34:32.040 And like, I have friends, they get divorced and they hang on to the last name because maybe the last name was better than the one they had.

01:34:37.420 Or they were married to a prominent guy.

01:34:38.920 So they cling to that last name in society.

01:34:41.480 And it's like, Megan is clinging hard to this Duchess title.

01:34:45.160 She was in the royal family for 18 months.

01:34:47.020 I have stuff in my freezer that's been there 18 years.

01:34:49.620 You know what I'm saying?

01:34:50.220 So she's like, I was in the royal family 18 months and she's calling herself the Duchess of Sussex.

01:34:55.280 She spent five hours in Sussex.

01:34:57.580 Okay, that's it.

01:34:58.360 And they hate the royal family.

01:34:59.540 They hate everything it stands for.

01:35:00.920 Why is she running around using that title if all she wanted was, by the way, her privacy. 1.00

01:35:05.440 It's weird to see you on the cover of Harper's Bazaar, given your, we want privacy.

01:35:10.380 And you hate the royal family. 0.96

01:35:11.760 You think they're a bunch of racists. 0.98

01:35:12.900 You think they bullied your husband. 0.81

01:35:14.120 Your husband suggested they wanted him to die in his last interview with the BBC.

01:35:18.440 And yet you still want to use their title.

01:35:20.400 It doesn't really track.

01:35:21.700 All right, keeping on here.

01:35:23.620 The absurd writer talks about how when women are in the public eye and they're multidimensional, Link, you may not know this.

01:35:33.760 This is the writer.

01:35:34.900 They tend to get a lot of flack, right?

01:35:37.720 The press doesn't allow women to be multidimensional. 1.00

01:35:41.560 This is so bizarre.

01:35:42.400 Like, this is how you get a job at this magazine.

01:35:44.400 Why do you think that is?

01:35:46.620 Megan asks me.

01:35:47.760 Here, I launch into a tangent about our culture's deep and historical distrust of women's voices in public.

01:35:54.940 You know what I mean?

01:35:55.940 I finally say, Megan deadpans with, well, yeah.

01:36:01.600 Okay.

01:36:02.220 She's been so difficult for her to get her voice out there, Link, and her $50 million Netflix deal, and her Spotify deal, and all the other things she's done.

01:36:09.580 Okay.

01:36:09.940 Then she writes, this is great, too.

01:36:11.900 Not about Harry, but about H, as she calls him exclusively.

01:36:18.080 She puts her hand on her heart when she talks about her husband.

01:36:22.620 He loves me so boldly, fully.

01:36:26.100 And he also has a different perspective, because he sees media that I wouldn't.

01:36:32.680 No one in the world loves me more than him.

01:36:35.320 So I know he's always going to make sure that he has my back.

01:36:40.240 This nonsense.

01:36:41.420 He loves me so boldly, so fully. 0.98

01:36:44.280 Like, okay, cut to the tape of him in her fake World Series celebration, Link, and him staring at Kris Jenner's boobs.

01:36:55.780 I'm starting to feel like he may not love you so boldly and so fully, sister.

01:36:59.600 Yeah, no.

01:37:00.520 I think his, like, soul is leaving his body.

01:37:03.440 I mean, he just looks like a shell of a man.

01:37:05.620 Like, you know that man who's just, like, emasculated and beaten down, and they've kind of thrown in the towel, and they're slouched in the big lazy boy chair?

01:37:14.460 Like, that is Prince Harry to me, okay?

01:37:17.500 He's just acquiesced, and he's in a prison of his own making, right?

01:37:20.900 He is culpable.

01:37:21.940 We always want to blame Meghan Markle, and, of course, I blame her, too.

01:37:24.960 But Prince Harry, you're a grown-ass man, right?

01:37:27.220 You're in charge of your choices.

01:37:28.680 You allowed her to come in and take a wrecking ball to relationships with your family, to everything going on in the U.K.

01:37:34.520 You allowed her to drag you to the U.S. 0.70

01:37:36.760 You didn't live in Hollywood.

01:37:38.040 She wanted to go to Hollywood.

01:37:39.520 So you have her in the driver's seat. 1.00

01:37:41.280 You either need to man up and be an alpha and take your life back, or you're going to keep receding like that hairline.

01:37:46.500 That's what's going to keep happening.

01:37:47.900 So we wish you well, Harry.

01:37:49.260 Truly. 0.99

01:37:49.700 It's like, excuse me, Your Highness, where are your balls? 0.99

01:37:53.380 Yeah, exactly. 0.99

01:37:54.480 Asking for multiple countries at this point.

01:37:55.980 I volunteer to look for them because I love a ginger and I love the prince.

01:37:59.800 So I will actually go frickin' Indiana Jones and find them.

01:38:02.640 But if Prince Harry wants to escape, okay, we will welcome him with open arms.

01:38:07.440 One of my friends was texting me, my friend Pam Mattingly.

01:38:09.720 She's a huge fan of your show.

01:38:11.320 She texted me.

01:38:11.900 She's like, you should call the customer service line for as ever, maybe Prince Harry will answer the phone.

01:38:16.820 And I said, if Prince Harry answers the phone, I'm going to say, cough twice if you need out, okay?

01:38:20.860 Clear your throat if you need us to come save you.

01:38:23.020 I'm going to say right now you would make a much better Duchess of Sussex than Meghan. 0.92

01:38:27.400 Are you kidding me?

01:38:28.620 Oh, my God, I'd be an amazing Duchess and Duke.

01:38:32.220 You would.

01:38:32.820 Prince Harry and I would be an iconic duo.

01:38:35.700 Totally.

01:38:36.300 Okay, iconic duo.

01:38:36.960 I think you'd make him very happy.

01:38:38.280 I mean, there's only one way to go right now for him, and that's up.

01:38:41.460 All right, here's the end of the piece. 0.97

01:38:42.920 And Meghan Markle manages to work this shit into every profile that's ever done of her. 0.99

01:38:48.760 It's cue the random friend saying how smart, fabulous, and better than them she is. 0.99

01:38:56.640 Watch her series.

01:38:58.040 Look at the interviews.

01:38:59.580 This is her.

01:38:59.980 It's very important to her to have the friend that says she's the best, better than they are.

01:39:05.220 Like, and they do it.

01:39:06.780 Here, she got Serena Williams to go out there and say it. 0.99

01:39:09.580 And the writer expresses the following.

01:39:13.540 Okay.

01:39:14.840 She had a nice childhood with her mother, but as she says, her parenting style is very different from her mother's.

01:39:21.800 She has made it a study using books and apps.

01:39:26.140 Oh, she's so unique in that.

01:39:27.160 She read a parenting book?

01:39:28.080 Oh, no one's ever done that except for Meghan Markle.

01:39:29.720 A diligence, ready for it, Link, that has made her an authority within her friend circle.

01:39:36.360 Uh-huh.

01:39:37.480 She's just so smart, and I feel like no matter what, I can always learn from her, says Serena Williams.

01:39:46.160 Right into Meghan's thing.

01:39:47.340 I was always the smart one.

01:39:49.260 You can just hear her behind the scenes telling Serena, please make sure you mention how smart I am.

01:39:53.260 And then it ends as follows.

01:39:55.460 It's nearly time for me to go.

01:39:56.960 So, Meghan tells me that she'll be having lunch soon with Gloria Steinem, or Glow, as she calls her.

01:40:04.040 You know how when you and I get together, Link, I always make sure before we part to tell you what more important person than you I'm about to see.

01:40:11.800 And also my favorite pet nickname for them.

01:40:14.380 Yes, perfect.

01:40:15.000 They met during the pandemic.

01:40:16.240 A mutual acquaintance was in their shared pod.

01:40:19.980 I don't even know what that is.

01:40:21.400 Steinem came to Thanksgiving at Meghan's house.

01:40:23.960 Quote, I've just always admired her, she says.

01:40:27.120 Was it her love of abortions, Meghan?

01:40:29.280 Meghan is remarkably at ease with the surrealism of global celebrity.

01:40:35.680 In fact, she seems to enjoy it.

01:40:38.920 Oh, does she?

01:40:40.080 Thank you for that remarkable insight.

01:40:42.540 I never knew, writer Caitlin Greenidge, that Meghan Markle might actually enjoy the surrealism of global celebrity. 0.84

01:40:50.640 Hello, it's why she married that ginger. 1.00

01:40:52.700 It certainly wasn't for love of his weirdness and beta role in the royal family.

01:40:58.680 No, and Meghan Markle, she couches herself as this big humanitarian.

01:41:01.680 She wants to be like this, like, UNICEF woman, Mother Teresa, Princess Diana, traveling the world, you know, bringing tampons to girls in Timbuktu. 0.97

01:41:09.480 But then, like, all she does is just slap her name on things.

01:41:13.220 She's, like, selling jams.

01:41:14.660 She's on the cover of elite magazines doing fashion photo shoots, hanging out with Jeff Bezos, Lauren Sanchez, and the Kardashians.

01:41:21.360 She is not this humanitarian woman.

01:41:23.500 And I'm sorry, we have to call her on her BS, right?

01:41:26.160 If you actually cared about young women and girls, you wouldn't need to name drop.

01:41:30.240 You wouldn't need to do all of this.

01:41:31.940 Where's the Netflix reality show on you going and doing that work in Africa?

01:41:36.900 Or what about work here?

01:41:38.060 You know, I'm tired of these celebrities going to Africa.

01:41:40.140 We got people who need help here.

01:41:41.660 Come here and do something, Meghan Markle.

01:41:43.400 But she won't do it because she's phony. 1.00

01:41:45.800 And all she actually cares about is being famous.

01:41:49.200 That is it.

01:41:49.600 She wants to be famous. 0.92

01:41:50.840 And we're all dancing around the topic.

01:41:53.220 That's really the thesis of the situation.

01:41:54.740 She wants to be a celebrity in any way, shape, or form. 0.76

01:41:58.020 That's it.

01:41:58.780 That's all.

01:41:59.400 She does not care.

01:42:00.180 And, I mean, she would have liked Harry's riches.

01:42:02.220 Like, she would have liked it if he had more money, like William will.

01:42:04.940 But what she really wanted was global fame.

01:42:07.060 That's it.

01:42:07.660 That's all she wants.

01:42:08.520 And the we want privacy nonsense was always a lie.

01:42:12.000 They don't like negative press.

01:42:14.360 Right.

01:42:14.640 But they covet press more than anyone's business, more than anyone I've ever seen.

01:42:19.500 This girl is so driven to see her face in the papers.

01:42:22.480 And Harry is getting dragged along with her.

01:42:24.140 Okay, let's keep going because there is a sea change, a shift among the celebrity culture

01:42:31.900 in Hollywood when it comes to body positivity.

01:42:36.520 Now, how many years, Link, were we told that fat is beautiful?

01:42:40.640 That all body sizes are beautiful and we're supposed to love them and celebrate them?

01:42:45.860 And then many of us were like, well, I mean, challenge.

01:42:49.540 But also, it's definitely not healthy and should not be something that we're like selling to the

01:42:54.180 next gen as something they should aspire to.

01:42:56.420 And then we would get tisked, tisked by the women's magazines and they would hold up people 0.98

01:43:01.440 like Amy Schumer or Meghan Trainor or Lizzo as examples of women who are living their best

01:43:07.800 lives and leaning into full-figured, you know, womanhood and shame on us if we had a judgment 1.00

01:43:13.200 about it.

01:43:14.060 Well, now, all three of those women have been religiously on the shot. 0.98

01:43:18.740 Right.

01:43:19.120 They are shadows of their former selves in terms of sizes and figures.

01:43:24.460 Look at this.

01:43:24.860 This is Meghan Trainor.

01:43:25.500 She's unrecognizable here.

01:43:26.900 I know.

01:43:27.280 On the right.

01:43:28.500 And all of them do it without acknowledging that they are the ones who lectured us.

01:43:34.780 Meghan Trainor, she first hit the national scene with that, all about that bass.

01:43:39.300 All about the bass.

01:43:39.840 Right.

01:43:39.980 And I just actually, my team, everybody knows that song.

01:43:42.580 But just to remind you, the lyrics are, I ain't no size too.

01:43:45.740 Yeah, my mama told me, don't worry about your size.

01:43:48.300 She said, boys like a little more booty to hold at night. 0.56

01:43:51.220 And no, I won't be some stick figure silicone Barbie doll.

01:43:54.420 So if that's what you're into, go ahead and move along.

01:43:57.760 I'm bringing booty back. 1.00

01:43:59.080 Go ahead and tell them skinny bitches that. 1.00

01:44:01.740 And then she ends with every interview is perfect from the bottom of the top. 0.99

01:44:04.720 Now she's lost some 60 pounds and has reportedly gotten breast implants too. 1.00

01:44:11.280 So she actually did want to be a stick figure silicone Barbie doll. 0.76

01:44:16.000 She just couldn't figure out how to do it with discipline, exercise, and a diet.

01:44:21.500 Totally.

01:44:21.940 And once she got her hands on the shot and as a good surgeon,

01:44:24.700 she's like, forget all about that other stuff.

01:44:26.780 Who, me?

01:44:27.760 Right. 1.00

01:44:28.200 No, I think what this is really unmasked is that these Hollywood celebrities are just hypocrites 0.98

01:44:33.260 because the whole body positivity movement went out the window. 0.96

01:44:37.160 Okay.

01:44:37.360 It was unmasked as a scam the second Ozempic came along. 0.95

01:44:40.860 I mean, Lizzo, how many albums did Lizzo do about being a thick girl? 0.99

01:44:44.780 And let's hear it for the thick girls and the big girls. 1.00

01:44:47.320 Now Lizzo's whole brand is that she's lost the weight.

01:44:49.720 Meghan Trainor, her whole brand now is that she's lost the weight. 0.99

01:44:52.460 After capitalizing on being this quote unquote thick big girl. 0.99

01:44:56.420 So these people are fake. 0.99

01:44:57.580 These people are phony.

01:44:58.560 And what I'm reading in the comments, there are these women who say, well, we can't get 1.00

01:45:02.100 Ozempic.

01:45:02.740 We've been left behind.

01:45:04.000 We can't just go get the shot or we can't afford it.

01:45:06.260 Our insurance won't cover it.

01:45:07.520 But these celebrities, they have access to all of these things.

01:45:10.240 Personal chefs, trainers, Ozempic.

01:45:12.500 And so Meghan Trainor, I'll also say this too.

01:45:14.720 There are some folks who aren't meant to be stick thin.

01:45:18.440 That might not be your body type, right?

01:45:20.520 You might lose all that weight.

01:45:21.740 And now you look like a bobblehead.

01:45:23.920 Okay. 0.99

01:45:24.100 You look like an egghead. 0.96

01:45:25.500 And these celebrities who went and got these massive veneers when they were 500 pounds. 0.97

01:45:29.900 Now that you're 200 pounds, the veneers look like the big chiclet Joe Biden teeth.

01:45:34.460 You know what I'm saying?

01:45:35.140 Not attractive.

01:45:35.260 So you got to be honest about what your body type is and you have to actually be transparent.

01:45:40.480 The last thing I'll say is Amy Schumer, we did this on my show.

01:45:43.180 She is one of these women who has lost a ton of weight on Ozempic. 0.99

01:45:47.440 And she's been very honest about losing weight on GLP-1s.

01:45:51.320 Well, it's also in page six and being reported that now her husband's going to leave her because

01:45:55.320 he married her liking her a little bit thick. 0.74

01:45:57.740 There are guys who might like some thick girls. 1.00

01:45:59.400 Now he's like, this isn't the woman I married.

01:46:01.540 I liked a thick chick. 1.00

01:46:02.660 And now she's lost the weight and the husband. 1.00

01:46:04.580 Well, not only that, she scrubbed her Instagram of her fat photos and tried to deny that there

01:46:09.600 was a purpose behind that.

01:46:10.540 And also she's out there saying, thanks to Manjaro and her lost 35 pounds, my hair is

01:46:15.520 fuller.

01:46:15.780 My skin is better.

01:46:16.420 I have more energy. 0.74

01:46:17.240 She wants sex more. 0.98

01:46:18.540 Okay. 0.95

01:46:19.640 Then you shouldn't have been telling other women to pack on the pounds with oblivion who 0.99

01:46:24.380 are still having shitty hair, shitty skin, low energy, and a bad sex life because of 0.99

01:46:29.300 your earlier advice. 1.00

01:46:30.400 Shame on you for misleading them.

01:46:32.220 If health, fitness, and a good body actually do lead to those things, you should have been

01:46:37.020 more honest.

01:46:37.940 Gotta run, Link.

01:46:38.820 Great to see you.

01:46:39.600 Thanks for being here.

01:46:40.620 See you later.

01:46:41.360 Bye.

01:46:41.520 Thank you so much.

01:46:45.240 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

01:46:47.120 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - November 20, 2025

Exclusive Comey Case Details, and Cringe Meghan Markle Profile, with Link Lauren, Eiglarsh, Holloway, and Merchant ｜ Ep. 1198

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