The Megyn Kelly Show - Exclusive interview with Laurence Fox About His Arrest and GB News Exit, and Dangers Parents Face with Their Kids on Trans Ideology, with Dr. Miriam Grossman

00:00:00.640 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:11.820 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Friday.

00:00:16.140 Oh, we have a great show lined up for you today. In just a bit, we're going to be joined by Dr.

00:00:20.040 Miriam Grossman. She is so brave and so smart for the latest in the transgender movement plaguing

00:00:26.120 children across the country. Remember, she just wrote the book Lost in Trans Nation. She was

00:00:31.240 featured in What is a Woman by Matt Walsh at The Daily Wire. And she's one of the few in the

00:00:36.780 psychological community speaking truth about this massive issue. But we begin today with a guest we

00:00:43.420 were originally supposed to speak with on Wednesday, Lawrence Fox, now formerly of GB News. But we

00:00:50.460 couldn't talk to him on Wednesday because he was arrested that morning. The story of his firing

00:00:56.300 and arrest is one of the biggest stories in the UK right now. And there's a lot of warning signs in

00:01:01.560 this story for us here in the US as well. You're going to be able to relate, sadly, to a lot of

00:01:06.660 what's being done to him. Today, he is here with us for his first interview since getting released

00:01:11.480 from jail and getting fired from GB News. Lawrence, so great to have you here. How are you?

00:01:17.060 I'm okay, Megan. Thanks. I've just had a thank you. Also, thank you so much for having me on your

00:01:23.020 show. I think I sent you in a text that my kids are huge fans. And they say, can you turn that

00:01:31.140 annoying man off, which is Ben Shapiro, because he's talked so fast. And you said, my little 11

00:01:35.700 year old son who's with me goes, can we put the nice lady on now? So I'm okay. It's been a very,

00:01:43.660 very strange period of time. Yeah, I've had a lot of reflection over how odd what's going on

00:01:50.660 is. And but yeah, I'm okay. I just I'm a criminal barrister, criminal lawyers just left my house

00:01:56.820 to tell me what I'm, you know, what I'm facing for, for my views.

00:02:03.500 Yeah, are you feeling and we're gonna get into all of it. But are you feeling like,

00:02:07.720 traumatized right now? Are you in shock still about the events of this week? What? How would

00:02:12.060 you describe your emotions right now? My emotions are of a deep, deep sadness, because I feel

00:02:20.020 for the first time, and I've never felt this before, that this war in some ways, maybe not

00:02:26.260 worth fighting. And when I say that, I mean that my father would characterize this as the wicked,

00:02:35.240 you know, the other side, you know, he'd say the wicked. And I would say that the wicked is so

00:02:40.300 organized, they're so well protected and defended against their, for their position, that they

00:02:46.840 organized a mass pile on against GB News, GB News folded like a, like a cheap suit. And then I came

00:02:55.340 out and I always come out fighting. And for the first time, I thought this silent majority that

00:03:00.360 everyone talks about, and people stop me in the street and go, you know, thank God for you, you're

00:03:04.520 representing a silent majority. I thought, well, you're silent guys. So is this a war worth,

00:03:10.640 worth fighting? So I felt a bit demoralized today. I, until I met my criminal barrister,

00:03:15.780 who was hilarious. I was saying yesterday on the show, I don't know the UK law very well,

00:03:21.260 but I cannot imagine, like I looked up just the elements in order to be guilty of a conspiracy to

00:03:25.480 do anything. And they're alleging you were, you conspired to commit, to commit a criminal act.

00:03:29.920 There has to be an agreement. There has to be an agreement. Yes.

00:03:32.520 There was no agreement. You were on television saying, I'm going to join these people who are

00:03:36.520 taking down these security cameras that nobody consented to, that are supposed to monitor our

00:03:40.820 emissions from our cars. And they're sending out fines to us. No one voted for it. No one approved

00:03:46.040 it. I'm going to join them. Who agreed with you? Maybe that group is like, we hate Lawrence Fox.

00:03:50.700 We don't want his kind. Get him out of here. We don't need his help. But there's no agreement.

00:03:54.780 This thing's going to fall apart. It's a joke. And it does seem to me like an attempt to harass you.

00:04:00.740 And I don't believe it's not linked to the controversy, controversy that's been swirling

00:04:05.920 around you since your comments on GB news, which we have also been discussing on this show.

00:04:10.340 Are you allowed to talk about any of that? Yes, I can talk about all of it,

00:04:14.240 even though that in the home of free speech is a termination package. They say that you're not

00:04:19.580 allowed to disparage the home of free speech with free speech. So that in itself is kind of funny.

00:04:24.600 Yes, GB news, the home of free speech, they should have a rebrand, I would imagine.

00:04:30.940 Yeah, I can talk about anything. I'm not allowed to say two words as part of my bail conditions. But

00:04:36.440 I'd like to say at this point that my favorite film ever made is Blade Runner. What a what a great

00:04:43.740 film that is. That's what I'd like to say. Okay, everyone's gonna have to go and watch it again.

00:04:49.640 So that we're reminded of Lawrence's defense. Let's just set it up for the audience members who

00:04:54.400 haven't been listening to the show steadily and didn't hear just a quick refresher. There was a

00:05:00.080 woman named Ava Evans who went on this talk show in Great Britain, and she made some comments that

00:05:05.320 were very dismissive of male suicide. I actually listened to you on trigonometry, which I love to

00:05:09.500 a great podcast. And they cut a very nice soundbite from the exchange that set this whole thing off.

00:05:15.320 I stole their cut of it because I liked how they did it. Here is the thing that got Lawrence upset.

00:05:21.220 He made comments then in response in GB news, which got him ultimately fired and I think now in jail.

00:05:27.460 Here's what she said. A conservative MP new role would champion issues such as reducing male suicide.

00:05:34.700 Would that be something you'd be in favor of? Well, what's interesting about that is the hostility

00:05:38.400 it sometimes faces whenever it comes up. I saw a program where there was like a feminist academic

00:05:42.180 and a Lib Dem MP and they were so hostile to this idea. And I thought if you flipped those things,

00:05:47.400 i.e. the biggest cause of death for men under 50 is suicide. Men are less likely to go to the

00:05:52.600 doctors. You know, men are less likely to maintain friendships. If that was for women, we'd have to

00:05:56.880 look at, well, why is society making that happen? Whereas with men, the argument is often why are

00:06:01.780 they doing that to themselves? So I'm not like totally wedded to the idea, but the hostility towards

00:06:07.240 the idea, I find it instructive. Ava? I think that it feeds into the culture a little bit,

00:06:12.460 this Minister for Men argument. In my mind, I think there should be a Minister for Mental Health,

00:06:16.760 which would be all-encompassing. I mean, you've got something like 7 million children waiting for

00:06:19.840 prescriptions for mental health at the moment. It's a crisis that's endemic throughout the

00:06:22.940 country, not specific to men. And I think, you know, a lot of ministers kind of bandy this about

00:06:27.680 to sort of, I'm sorry, but make an enemy out of women, I think. Not you, and I don't think

00:06:31.580 your book is. I don't accept that. I don't think it is to make an enemy. If we looked at during COVID,

00:06:36.980 men were literally more likely to die from COVID. And I don't really want to cast myself as a

00:06:41.600 Meninist or one of these guys from the Manusphere, because that's not who I am. But I do find it

00:06:45.580 interesting that sometimes the arguments tend to throw it back. But who was doing all the work

00:06:49.340 during COVID? You know, a lot of the time, if you looked into people's households, it was the

00:06:52.420 women who were taking on the laundry, the school care, all of that. But I'm not disputing any of

00:06:57.500 that. Well, I'm saying that there are specific issues that men face that might warrant

00:07:01.380 specific attention. I mean, literally, the biggest killer of men under 50 is suicide.

00:07:06.580 That is an arresting statistic. And if that doesn't warrant specific attention,

00:07:10.340 mental health is an umbrella issue. I have to say that it's also because women are

00:07:13.020 unsuccessful. That is a lot of, that is, feeds into that statistic. But it feels like,

00:07:16.960 it just doesn't feel like you've got any space for this idea that men might have

00:07:19.700 unique challenges that face them. Well said. He was exactly right. And when you watch the longer

00:07:26.120 clip, you can really, I feel the frustration you felt. She is dismissive at every

00:07:31.180 turn. Over and over, he tried to say, look, because there is a minister for women. He was

00:07:36.020 just trying to say, look, men have their own specific mental health issues. And they're,

00:07:40.380 this is the leading cause of death for men under 50. And we really might need somebody

00:07:43.220 to help start looking into this. No, no, no. Even when he said, look how many men died during

00:07:48.940 COVID. And her response was, but look who was doing all the work inside the house. What,

00:07:53.640 what does she do? She was the one making it a tit for tat issue, refusing to acknowledge the

00:07:58.980 problems. Let's just start there. She displays quite a lot of misogyny. And I think, you know,

00:08:05.980 genuine misogyny, which is like women did all the housework and all that stuff. I'm a single

00:08:09.840 father. I raised my two boys. I do all the housework. You know, it's like, if we're looking

00:08:14.400 for equality in the gender roles, then we, we, we should look for genuine equality in the gender

00:08:18.860 roles. What she did and, and, and what really upsets me to this moment is, um, diminish the idea

00:08:27.900 that men suffer too. And it's like, how dare you? And then, and then turn around and say to me,

00:08:35.180 oh, you're, you're a misogynist. It's like, I'm not misogynist. I'm just going, my point was badly

00:08:41.500 made, right? I, I, I could have expressed it a lot better, but my point is how dare you belittle

00:08:46.680 the suffering of men. Because when they take their own lives, of which I know at least two,

00:08:53.100 you know, that seer into my mind on every, every single day, they didn't say anything. They didn't

00:08:58.980 speak up exactly because of women like her, who belittle the idea that men also feel and think

00:09:06.040 and worry and, you know, and take their own lives. As you quite rightly pointed out, it's an arresting

00:09:11.640 statistic that this stuff happened. So still to this day, a week later, I'm sat there going,

00:09:18.300 I'm so angry with you. I'm so angry with that comment being allowed to pass like it,

00:09:23.820 like nothing in the night. I'm, I'm, I'm appalled that we live in a country that allows that to happen.

00:09:30.220 The callousness of her tone and the way she addressed this very serious issue.

00:09:34.480 And I feel, I feel it too, Lawrence. I haven't, thank God, lost anybody in adulthood to this,

00:09:39.560 but my cousin shot himself in the head and died when he was 16. And it was the most horrific event

00:09:47.980 of that piece of our family's lives. They've never fully recovered. It's absolutely deeply

00:09:53.620 alarming. And like so many other men and boys, he succeeded quote unquote on the first try. And

00:09:59.160 there was no warning. They didn't know. This is the pattern with men and teenage boys. They don't

00:10:04.540 reach out for help. They don't get diagnosed with anxiety or depression. And even when they do,

00:10:09.560 they're mocked, they're mocked for it. Uh, and yet when they try to kill themselves and they try to

00:10:14.420 die by suicide, they succeed at it. Uh, it doesn't, it's not a cry for help. They, they really want to

00:10:20.100 end it. And it's part of, because we stick, the reason is we stigmatize mental health. We make them

00:10:25.480 seem weak if they want mental health. And this, what she did on that show is hashtag part of the

00:10:32.200 problem. Yeah, because look, we're facing, and all of us would understand that we're facing a massive

00:10:38.980 under-reporting of sexual assault in women. And I don't have any female friends who have not had a

00:10:44.920 really unwanted female, uh, male attention or be a lot worse. You know, I don't have any female

00:10:51.440 friends who've not been through that. So the, what she's doing essentially is she's undermining her own

00:10:56.700 cause to turn herself into the victim of a situation. And I think that's absolutely morally,

00:11:02.620 morally repugnant. So like, it's amazing that it makes me emotional. Even now, it upsets me to hear

00:11:11.380 her say that and to belittle it because I've, you know, I've spoken to people who were driving

00:11:16.400 behind someone in a tank in Basra, uh, during the war in Iraq and the tank slipped off the,

00:11:24.040 off the passageway and turned over into a marsh and they had to comfort someone or an entire tank

00:11:31.740 crew as they sank into the mud and died. And they, the person that came back was not the person I knew.

00:11:39.140 I didn't know them. They were like a different human being. And you can have all the conversations

00:11:44.280 about the war and everything like that and all of that sort of stuff, but the man that I saw was not

00:11:49.540 the same man that I saw when he went away. And, you know, we can, we can talk about the fact that

00:11:54.940 women have, uh, less opportunities in life. I, I would say that women have as many opportunities

00:11:59.580 in life as men do. If they want them, you're living proof of it.

00:12:03.020 These days for sure.

00:12:04.500 Yeah. And, uh, but we can also turn around and say that, you know, men, 99% of people who die in war

00:12:10.020 are men, you know, informally, as opposed to civilian casualties. And, you know, this idea of

00:12:16.020 masculinity being in some way toxic and part of a culture war, which is what she did, which was to

00:12:22.200 diminish the idea that her fellow human beings, you know, created equal in the eyes of God are in

00:12:28.140 some way being used as part of a culture war. I find repellent. I just, I don't have any other words

00:12:33.400 for it. And I wasn't able to control myself. And what I should have done is I should have attacked

00:12:39.980 her point. But instead I turned around and said, if you find this, uh, if you end up with a woman

00:12:46.480 like that, you're going to commit yourself to a life of misery. That's what you're going to do

00:12:52.000 because, you know, a lot of people would agree, but hold on. I want to get to your comments in

00:12:56.420 one second, but let's not leave her comments yet. Because what I see in this exchange is her

00:13:01.440 expressing man hatred, misandry. And that's what you were responding. She's got a long pattern of it.

00:13:08.860 This woman, if you look back through her social media posts, which I know you've put up,

00:13:11.940 she's constantly saying, I wouldn't shag him. I'm not going to shag you. I'm not going to,

00:13:15.320 this is the thing. She, she loves this term and she loves to say it about men who she finds weak

00:13:19.880 or offensive or what have you. And she also referred to men as the most potent or most dangerous virus of

00:13:25.940 them all. Um, and then she goes out there and is dismissive over and over of the other guy who's

00:13:30.540 being very respectful at his attempt to say, you know what men have unique problems and it's

00:13:33.860 manifesting in suicide. Something we should know, no, no. So you respond,

00:13:38.860 to what is clearly her hatred of men on some primal level. And you do it in a way that is

00:13:45.520 scathing, crass, but heartfelt. You try to use humor. I was there. I watched it. I was sitting

00:13:50.680 on the set, watching this happen, sitting on the set over here, but I was up next on Dan's show.

00:13:54.700 And I totally got where you were coming from, what you were doing and what happens. It's,

00:13:58.980 it's like more hatred toward a man. Now the hatred this time is toward you in particular and

00:14:06.820 no one. Yeah. Okay, fine. You can get, you should spend one minute talking about the way in which

00:14:11.520 Lawrence expressed himself, but zero minutes were devoted to why, to, to anything she said,

00:14:17.400 to any of her comments. And so I really think that's, that's one of the reasons why you're

00:14:21.560 feeling traumatized. That's my word. I think you're feeling that like it's now it's happening to you.

00:14:27.560 But I let down men in that situation because I should have said, I should have attacked her

00:14:34.800 point. That would have been better because the point is weak. She's weak in a, what's the point

00:14:42.080 in responding to some shock jock who wants to turn up on TV and say these horrible things and

00:14:46.560 try and increase her profile. God knows for what, for what reason. Um, I, I, I do reflect and I do try

00:14:54.320 and adopt some humility in this situation. And I thought I let down the side of the argument of

00:15:00.020 the men, many, many thousands of people have contacted me with messages of their partners,

00:15:07.800 their male partners, uh, killing themselves. And this is, uh, as Jeff Norcock quite rightly pointed

00:15:13.460 out in the show, people are, men are killing themselves in great numbers that they're being

00:15:17.860 toxified. They're being, uh, I'd hate to say this in a sort of, in a way, which wasn't nuanced,

00:15:23.200 but very, very feminized. And it's, it's, it's very, you know, I feel I let myself down

00:15:30.900 actually. And that's the bit that upsets me. I should have just turned around and taken

00:15:35.760 her point and attacked it with everything I have. Cause that's what I usually do. But

00:15:40.980 this particular issue just stigmatized. It got me in woke parlance. It triggered me so

00:15:46.600 much that I just thought who would want to shag that? And I'm sorry, I'll say it again.

00:15:51.960 Now that I've been fired who, which man, what self-respecting man would want to find himself

00:15:57.640 in a relationship with a woman who hated men that much. Yeah. You know, I, I understand.

00:16:03.060 I think you're being too hard on yourself. I re I mean, I I've said this to you privately

00:16:06.760 and I say it publicly, you're being too hard on yourself. Your country men are being too

00:16:10.840 hard on you. You made a crass comment expressing heartfelt sentiment about the mental wellbeing of

00:16:16.660 men and someone who is dismissive of them. Okay. You could spend one minute saying, sorry,

00:16:21.340 it wasn't nice. The way I put it, it was obviously an attempt to use humor to make a point on a show

00:16:27.520 that was airing at nine 30 in the evening. Um, the fact that they are treating you like your Harvey

00:16:32.800 Weinstein is wrong. It's wrong. This is a joke. So this is what you actually said for the audience at

00:16:40.000 home. It was now like, what the hell did he say? Here's what he said. He went on GB news,

00:16:43.720 which is supposed to be great Britain's, not exactly their Fox news, but the closest thing

00:16:47.980 that they can get with this government regulator called off con that literally listens to everything

00:16:53.780 that's said and scolds you if it's not perfectly fair and balanced. Um, so they're, they're trying

00:16:59.780 to offer this free speech alternative to the BBC and Dan's got the most successful show on GB news.

00:17:06.380 And I've appeared on it once a week since it launched and you've been appearing on it regularly

00:17:09.860 since launch. So did Calvin Robinson, who was on the show yesterday. Here's you that night

00:17:14.580 responding to Ava Evans's comments. Show me a single self-respecting man that would like to climb

00:17:21.600 into bed with that woman ever, ever. He wasn't an incel. He wasn't a cocked little incel. That

00:17:29.380 little woman has been fed spoon fed oppression day after day after day after day, starting with the lie

00:17:36.240 of the gender, uh, uh, wage gap. And she sat there and I'm going like, if I met you in a bar

00:17:41.420 and that was like sentence three, chances of me just walking away are just huge. We need powerful,

00:17:49.460 strong, amazing women who make great points for themselves. We don't need these sort of feminist

00:17:54.560 4.0. They're pathetic and embarrassing. Who'd want to shag that?

00:17:59.880 Lawrence, well, look, she, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just going to provide a touch of balance from

00:18:08.540 her because she did actually respond to this earlier today saying that she regretted her comments,

00:18:16.720 but she didn't apologize. Uh, yes. So, so, so there you go.

00:18:24.940 And she's a very beautiful woman, Lawrence. Very beautiful. There you go.

00:18:29.880 First of all, Dan gave it the old college try to give the required balance that these government

00:18:34.700 regulators apparently require. But I mean, to me as an American, it's offensive that he even had to do

00:18:40.540 that. Like, why did he have to do that? The whole point of a Fox news or a GB news is to provide

00:18:48.020 balance to the mainstream conversation that is entirely happening the opposite way, right? That

00:18:53.580 every, there's one message or does the BBC really provide a lot of balance that's fair to people who

00:18:59.320 are more conservative? No. So it's like the fact that GB has to make sure they contradict anything

00:19:06.520 that is said, you know, that's controversial or about somebody on the left. It's just absurd to

00:19:10.900 me. I hate the whole system. So you said it, your life exploded and even you were taken aback,

00:19:16.400 I think by the size of the reaction. Yeah, absolutely. I think that it was, uh, I think that

00:19:23.940 there was a very well organized, there was a woman in the green room, uh, who was about to go on next,

00:19:29.620 who shared it with Ava and she began the pile on and it was very organized media pile on. It wasn't,

00:19:35.100 you know, or as the Andrew Tate people would call a matrix attack. And I woke up the next morning

00:19:41.860 because I was like, me and Dan were talking about it and we're going, that was quite funny. And it's,

00:19:45.480 you know, and poor old Dan, who, who essentially is, he's a vulnerable guy. You know, he's not used

00:19:50.700 to being attacked in the way that I'm used to being attacked. And he was bullied into making these

00:19:55.340 apologies, these, these groveling apologies to do it. But, you know, ultimately I was just trying to say

00:20:04.480 a simple point, which is that we need some balance and GB news, what they've done to

00:20:09.680 themselves while casting themselves as a home of free speech. Hang on quickly. Let's do a little,

00:20:14.280 uh, diversion here. Paul Marshall, who is the father of Winston Marshall, who was counseled for

00:20:20.440 Mumford and Sons, who I spoke to every single day during his cancellation period. And I was trying to

00:20:26.440 say, don't throw Andy Ngo under the bus. Don't do this. I support him. Paul Marshall is his father.

00:20:31.640 He, he owns GB news or his, uh, part of his, uh, Legatum, uh, consortium owns GB news. He's now

00:20:39.380 trying to buy the daily telegraph, the right wing or center right newspaper in the UK. And he's

00:20:44.640 basically positioning himself as the UK's kind of free speech champion whilst firing everybody who

00:20:51.940 doesn't say what he wants them to say. And I think that's a concerning aspect as well. GB news have

00:20:57.620 also have someone, uh, there's on the record as of paying off a female journalist who was, uh, the

00:21:04.020 victim of, uh, sexual harassment from someone very senior in the organization. So when they talk about

00:21:10.060 this idea that they love free speech and that they love, you know, we've got values and all this sort

00:21:14.580 of stuff, none of it's true within the office space and none of it's true within the organization

00:21:19.340 and it, as freedom lovers and as people who believe in the idea of free speech being the

00:21:24.560 cure to the problem between, uh, us and them, if there is an us and a them, which there is at the

00:21:29.600 moment, uh, are, they've just opened themselves up to some unending attacks because what, you know,

00:21:35.480 what's it going to be the next person who says something wrong? They're going to go cancel him

00:21:39.280 and they're going to go, okay, we'll cancel them too. They're not the home of free speech.

00:21:43.120 They're the home of cancel culture. And, um, you know, their audience is halved in, in a week.

00:21:49.000 And I was hugely, they hired me knowing I'm a, I'm a maverick, you know, they, they knew what I was

00:21:54.940 like and they, the, the minute it came down and, and I suppose the broader point here, which I think

00:22:01.060 is important is that we're losing Megan, those that believe in, in free speech, free expression,

00:22:07.940 being the answer, the way out of this open, honest discussion with the convert, with, with the

00:22:12.180 convincible members of the other side, you know, a moderate Democrat, for example, in terms of

00:22:17.640 American politics, we we've now lost the argument because what they do is they organize the strong

00:22:23.500 come together and they organize very, very well. And they take the week with them. What we do

00:22:27.480 is we just beg for our jobs. And I just think it's a very uneven battlefield. And I, you know,

00:22:33.960 I don't, I don't see how we get out of this easily.

00:22:37.200 There, there have been so many comments made on the left, on the BBC and elsewhere that have gone

00:22:43.760 completely ignored the, this off com, this government group that oversees all the cable

00:22:48.460 channels and not to mention now they're going to be taking over digital. They don't care. Here's

00:22:53.140 just one. We just pulled this one cause we covered this. Um, this is the Bridgerton actress who was

00:22:58.620 watching the coronation. And here was her observation back in May of 2023. It's not 11.

00:23:04.280 We've gone from the, uh, the, uh, the rich diversity of the Abbey to a terribly white

00:23:10.680 balcony. I'm very struck by that. I'm also looking at those younger generations and thinking,

00:23:15.700 uh, what are the nuances that they will inhabit as they grow?

00:23:21.880 Hmm. Well, so, cause it's a problem to be so white. You see, if you're white, that's a problem.

00:23:28.520 You need to do something about it. Terribly white. My God, not just white. That's what I am.

00:23:32.020 As white as they come. Super white, transparent, translucent, but she doesn't like that. You need

00:23:38.000 more melanin in your skin. No, no discipline there. She was fine. Then there's a BBC news at 10. They

00:23:43.240 featured an Indian historian saying Winston Churchill was seen as the precipitator of mass

00:23:48.400 killing due to allegations of his failure and this famine of 1943. No problem. Usage of N word in a news

00:23:56.080 report, um, about what happened in Bristol, uh, sparking more than 18,000 complaints from viewers.

00:24:02.300 Yours only sparked 8,000. Um, journalists is still with the BBC. They don't fire. It's different.

00:24:08.900 Another guy, Tim Wilcox accused of antisemitism. Uh, he's still with the BBC. Very different story.

00:24:14.960 If you say it over on the BBC and frankly, I've got to be honest. I have sat on the set of GB news.

00:24:21.380 Well, my set, but via satellite with Dan saying things not too far afield from what you said. I,

00:24:27.760 I can't find the sound, but I am, I looked for it, but I know I said something about Harry and how

00:24:32.900 pathetic and a feat he seemed after he failed to find fight back against William and he fell against

00:24:39.160 the dog bowl and he went crying to his wife. I remember saying something like my God, who,

00:24:44.980 who would want to sleep with him? Something to that effect. I guess I'm allowed to say it on GB news,

00:24:49.640 but you're not. Well, you, you, you, you know, uh, here lie the problem. The UK is totally

00:24:55.980 unprotected against, uh, attacks on free speech. The Americans, uh, and the founders and those that

00:25:01.600 wrote the constitution understood the idea that there is going to be tyranny as mankind moves

00:25:07.760 towards leisure, which is what's happened, you know, as much as poverty still in the world and

00:25:13.060 still in my own country, totally ignored by everybody. But ultimately people are moving towards

00:25:19.100 leisure. So they, they understood that society was going to get better and they understood that

00:25:23.600 what would happen therefore was tyranny would begin to invoke itself into the society that

00:25:29.360 it was, was taking place. So they created a first amendment, which was the protection of free speech,

00:25:35.000 free speech cornerstone of any liberal secular democracy or a Republican, uh, or an American

00:25:41.320 Republic or whatever. But the, uh, also the other one is the presumption of innocence. So

00:25:45.860 the attack on me came very quickly after the Russell brand allegations, which were made on a TV show,

00:25:54.560 uh, by, and a lot of it was played by actresses and it didn't hold huge amounts of public interest

00:26:01.220 to me or to the public. I'm just to interrupt you. This was so crazy. You shouldn't even be,

00:26:06.800 you should not be mentioning him in the same breath as your story. It, these two stories have

00:26:11.500 absolutely no similarity to one another. Russell brand is accused by what, four different women

00:26:16.840 of sexual assault, rape, repeated sex and taking advantage of a minor forced sexual acts on a minor

00:26:23.280 while he was 31. Believe him or not, those allegations are not in the same universe as

00:26:30.740 who would want to shag that. That's nothing. It's a stupid ass joke. It's insane. Don't even mention I,

00:26:37.420 whatever, even if you think Russell brand is totally innocent of all of it,

00:26:39.780 these things should not be compared, but your story, the latter story seems to me to have gotten

00:26:45.620 more coverage and caused even more outrage. Yeah. I think the point I'm trying to make

00:26:50.860 is that, um, as I was speaking to the guy who backs the reclaim party, he said to me,

00:26:57.400 Oh my God, you will get canceled for shagging too many people and you'll get canceled for not wanting

00:27:02.680 to shag anybody. So, you know, what, what, at what point can a man express, uh, any emotion about his

00:27:12.120 fellow man? And, you know, we're, we're in a very, very, very, very strange time. And it, and to me,

00:27:17.600 it seems like it's accelerating. And I worry that our, I don't like sites because I like free speech.

00:27:25.100 I like people to exchange ideas and I like the best ideas to win. And I said to you, as I spoke to you on

00:27:30.100 the phone, on the phone, I love your shows where you do the law stuff because you go, you break it

00:27:35.080 down and you go what's legally and what's legally relevant. But I was, I, I, I don't think I've

00:27:41.960 committed some cardinal sin. Otherwise I wouldn't have said it. And I'm, I'm happy to say it again.

00:27:47.280 I, I'm just, what I'm doing is when I'm reflecting, because I am someone who is trying to find some

00:27:52.120 humility in life. Um, I'm going, could I have said it better? Yeah, I could, but I'm not comparing

00:27:57.560 myself to Russell Brown. I'm just saying that the media storm was convenient because they knew that

00:28:02.280 Russell Brown wasn't going to land as a story because they wanted to kill him off. So they

00:28:06.720 thought, Oh, who's next? And they, you know, uh, end up at my door as they frequently do.

00:28:11.560 Mm-hmm. And then you got arrested. The weirdest twist in this whole thing. So in between your,

00:28:20.940 your mass media coverage on this issue, this nothing burger and your suspension from GB news,

00:28:26.540 um, you gave, you went on our old pal, Majid Nawaz's, uh, podcast. He's come on with me on Fox all the

00:28:32.840 time. Now he's got a podcast and you went on and you were talking not about this instance in the

00:28:37.700 thing that got you in trouble. You were talking about these cameras that I referenced at the top

00:28:42.620 of the show have been put up in London. They're monitoring cars for emissions that go beyond some

00:28:48.240 certain standard. And, you know, a lot of people in London are saying, who, who told you you could

00:28:53.220 monitor us with these cameras and send us these fines without our consent. And so this civil

00:28:58.440 disobedience group is running around cutting down the cameras and you went on Nawaz's podcast and

00:29:04.780 said you would join them. I think we have the sound, but I'm trying to find the number. Uh, yeah,

00:29:10.320 I think it's sat for, yeah, go ahead. I would encourage mass, mass removal of the surveillance

00:29:16.700 state because once it's there, you cannot remove it. Are you interested in testing the law around

00:29:21.420 this? If some people get arrested, I would happy to be arrested myself. So, you know, I won't be,

00:29:27.380 I won't be when I go out and take their cameras down, which I will be doing, I won't be, I will be

00:29:31.960 taking my phone with me. So they know exactly where I am because the baby runners are clever that,

00:29:37.000 you know, they look, they, they, they, they know what they're doing, but I, I would happily sit

00:29:40.780 there and go sit in court and go, who voted for this? What's your evidence for the out of London

00:29:45.420 clean air zone? What's your evidence for that? Why are you doing this? You know, I, I'd sit there

00:29:49.740 and do it, but I do that. I've got several court cases going on, as you know, but, um, yeah, I would.

00:29:56.620 And then the next thing you knew, the cops showed up. Can you just describe what happened when the

00:30:01.340 police showed up? Yeah. So I was, I was sat in the house. Um, Andrew Bridgen, who's our, uh,

00:30:07.880 he's our MP, the, the only MP, by the way, in the Western world, who is going to get a debate in the

00:30:12.960 houses of parliament, the mother of all parliaments on the excess deaths that are taking place in

00:30:17.160 across the developed world as a result of the last two years, um, work. Uh, he was here and, and I got

00:30:24.800 a knock on the door and six policemen barged straight through my door and they took my children's

00:30:30.320 devices. They took my own devices, hence why I'm on an iPhone to you, a new iPhone. And, um, they

00:30:36.800 were very, very confrontational and difficult. They didn't want me to broadcast. They didn't want me to

00:30:41.460 say anything about it at the time I was taken to a police station. And, um, the thing that really

00:30:47.400 resonates at times of great difficulty, and I don't think I am going through times of great difficulty,

00:30:52.900 by the way, because I think there are a lot more worse things going on. I'm sat next to a policeman

00:30:56.780 in the car. They're reporting suicides and knife crime. And they're going, we're busy.

00:31:01.780 We can't go there. We got, we're on route to, you know, the police station with a criminal number

00:31:07.260 one, me. And I get to the police station. The guy in the next holding cell to me has got

00:31:11.980 bags, forensic bags on his arms. He's got blood all over his body. He's obviously been doing

00:31:17.520 something which is pretty not good. And, um, I'm sitting there going, how come I'm, this

00:31:23.280 is a political takedown. You're taking me down because A, I was a journalist up until

00:31:28.400 about halfway through my, um, incarceration, my mild incarceration and, uh, and B, I lead

00:31:34.340 a political party. So it, it doesn't look good for the police to send six guys in to

00:31:40.500 my house, especially when you've got a guy, Chris Packham, who is, uh, he's a, he's an

00:31:46.160 autistic, uh, nature presenter. And, you know, he has that, he's been saying, I think it's

00:31:53.320 fine to break the law, to save the, save us from the sun monster. It's very Aztec, this

00:31:58.920 whole thing. It is, it's very, it's very sort of, you know, okay, well, if, if the crops

00:32:04.660 don't work this year, let's just sacrifice some people. And we, and we, we're going through

00:32:08.260 the digital version of that here. So I went to the police station. I was locked up in the

00:32:13.220 police station. A couple of police officers came around and gave me a brownie because

00:32:16.480 obviously they like to remind you they're in charge. And one of them leapt through the

00:32:20.360 door of my little, pulled down my slot, my cell. And he went, you know, we're right

00:32:25.400 behind you, Loz. And I went, thanks man. And he went, we all watched the Delling pod. And

00:32:31.360 I was like, so I found it funny. I mean, a lot of it is so absurd. It's funny. The idea

00:32:38.140 that we're living in-

00:32:38.420 The cops are probably with you. I mean, it's, it tends to be the elites who like to enforce

00:32:42.280 the world order, um, as such as we're describing it. I do, I should mention to the audience,

00:32:47.840 you are the men, the leader of a, of a political party. It's called the reclaim party. And we

00:32:52.320 pulled this and I'd actually never seen the formal description of it, but this is what

00:32:57.340 my team gave me. Reclaim intends to change freedom of speech laws and to depoliticize

00:33:01.880 the police and other public institutions. Well, there you have it. Of course, this is problematic.

00:33:07.520 Yeah. Reclaim says it will actively field candidates at the next general election, both to directly

00:33:12.340 take seats and to actively target and unseat MPs, members of parliament who've sold Britain

00:33:17.300 down the river. Uh, so you've been doing this since 2020. And so you are a political figure

00:33:22.740 now under arrest for what your political views for saying you, you would do something that

00:33:29.400 you hadn't done something for a conspiracy, which requires an agreement that was never struck

00:33:33.480 embarrassed, humiliated property, seized that of your children as well. Now people can say what,

00:33:38.920 that you're an accused criminal in addition to being an alleged misogynist and great. We're done

00:33:44.200 with Lawrence. Yeah. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, uh, the law works in mysterious ways.

00:33:51.020 And I have a feeling that the legacy media have, have managed to put themselves in a position where

00:33:55.280 they, they, they've killed themselves. You know, the, the people that would have tuned into GB news

00:34:00.940 would have been the people that said I'm bored of being lied to by the singular narrative,

00:34:05.140 the monochromatic narrative of the mainstream media, which is there's an imminent, terrible

00:34:09.280 climate crisis. It's really good idea to trans your kids and, um, teaching everyone about skin

00:34:14.720 color privilege is a really good idea. I would turn around and offer the Martin Luther King defense

00:34:19.300 and say, you know, it's what's going on in your heart, which is more important, which originally got

00:34:23.740 me into trouble. I would say it's probably not a good idea to put children on experimental, uh,

00:34:28.700 hormone therapy, bearing in mind that, you know, you, you give a, a, a boy, a load of estrogen or

00:34:34.880 a girl, a testosterone, that that's just not a good idea. And, um, for that I am, yeah, I'm persona

00:34:41.540 non grata in this, in this country. And I think we, we, we're witnessing the, the manifestation of

00:34:48.780 virtue signaling becoming reality. So we have a prime minister in this country who turns around and

00:34:53.640 goes, there's uncontrolled immigration of which there is in this country. And that's,

00:34:57.600 I love immigration. I think it's great. If you've got, if you want to come to our country and provide

00:35:01.500 and be brilliant, do it, but don't break the law to do it. And we're witnessing a, uh, a prime minister

00:35:07.820 who says, I'm going to stop the boats or I'm going to stop the indoctrination of children in school.

00:35:13.540 But actually all he's doing is virtue signaling that he's going to do that. He actually doesn't do

00:35:18.540 anything about it. No one does anything about the fact that you're taking entire communities of

00:35:23.860 people and putting them amongst, you know, in, in England, it's we're like America, you know,

00:35:28.640 we have the red bits and the blue bits and the blue bits of the cities, but they're putting the

00:35:33.780 immigrants in the, who didn't bring their wives and children, by the way, they just came by

00:35:38.800 themselves in amongst, uh, you know, fleeing war. I mean, forgive me for being an old fashioned toxic

00:35:45.640 male, but if I was fleeing war, I would make sure my wife and my children were safe ahead, well ahead of

00:35:51.620 me. They're putting them in communities where, where these, where people have been living for

00:35:58.100 hundreds of years, side by side are really, are really struggling. And we've had this problem

00:36:02.200 with the Batley. There was a, there's a story of a Batley teacher who showed a picture of the

00:36:06.880 prophet Muhammad as part of a lesson on blasphemy. So it was a lesson on blasphemy. And what happened

00:36:13.040 was he showed the cartoon from Charlie Hebdo, which got a load of people shot, by the way, you know,

00:36:17.540 as you well know. And this guy's hiding for his life in this country. And my objections to any of

00:36:26.100 this stuff, uh, uh, uh, greeted relentlessly with the idea that I'm in some way, some terrible, vile

00:36:32.720 racist. And I'm like, well, no, if you love your country and you believe in its histories and

00:36:37.520 traditions, then you should probably support the fact that we live somewhere. It's our home, right?

00:36:42.740 And we're witnessing the end of the West and we have no, in England, we have no protection against

00:36:49.820 it. None. We don't have a first amendment. We don't have a second amendment. All we have is a

00:36:54.220 cultural import from the United States, which is going to be the downfall of the entire of our

00:36:58.520 country. That's what I think. Douglas Murray, Spencer Clavin, they've both written books on this

00:37:05.040 war on the West, outlining the very same concerns that you're outlining as well. Stand by one minute,

00:37:10.220 quick break. And then I want to get back to you and what's next. Lawrence stays with us.

00:37:17.440 Come on then, spit it out. I was just wondering why you changed your mind. You know, you were keen

00:37:23.300 wondering what's happened. Nothing's happened. Well, if it isn't something that's already happened,

00:37:28.900 then it's something that you think will happen. Have you quite finished? Oh, you're worried that if

00:37:33.820 you go, that Moody will close you down. Oh, rubbish man. Yeah. You'll come back and you won't be a

00:37:38.440 copper anymore. And if you're not a copper, then what would you be? Shouldn't I be lying on a couch

00:37:42.380 for this sort of guff? Do you love Laura? Then go. Show her that you love her. Don't assume that she

00:37:49.900 knows. People make that assumption and it's a mistake. Still, your decision.

00:37:55.000 That was a scene with our guest, Lawrence Fox, when he was acting on a show called Inspector Lewis,

00:38:06.460 aired from 2006 to 2015. Now he is leader of Great Britain's Reclaim Party. And as of late,

00:38:15.160 persona non grata, because he had the nerve to express himself in some colorful terms. That's it.

00:38:19.540 Uh, it's just amazing how quickly they try to dispense with you once they realize you're not

00:38:24.560 actually a leftist. Once you come out of your sort of just, I'm not saying anything, acting shell and

00:38:30.540 declare yourself something other than a leftist. It's the beginning of the end in your country and

00:38:34.980 mine. Yeah. I mean, I, I thought for two years, I thought, am I going to tell the truth? Am I going

00:38:42.860 to say what I feel? Uh, and it actually weirdly began in America. It began with Kavanaugh and the

00:38:48.740 hearings, the Kavanaugh hearings. And I was sat outside my trailer and these, uh, actresses and

00:38:55.600 actors together would sit there and go, you've got to believe women, got to believe women. And I'm like,

00:38:59.660 well, no, actually, ultimately you have to believe in the due process of the law. That's the most

00:39:03.800 important thing. And as we saw with Christine Blasey forward and, um, what happened, this was very

00:39:08.980 sketchy info. And we saw Clarence Thomas as well. You know, it's, it's America is trying to destroy

00:39:17.120 the two things that keep it upright, which are the right to free speech, the presumption of innocence

00:39:23.420 and all of these things that, and, you know, your gun grabbers. I'm not a big fan of guns, uh, but I

00:39:28.740 now realize that, you know, as we head towards tyranny, having a gun in your locker is going to be a useful

00:39:35.420 thing to have. Um, it's astonishing to look back on that. I haven't seen that. That feels like a

00:39:41.160 lifetime ago for me. And I mourn that fear hugely because it was an opportunity for me to offer a,

00:39:48.180 a different voice to the, to the ones that you're constantly fed on, you know, in modern moral

00:39:54.560 lectures on Netflix or whatever other channel, you know? So I feel I, I, what I watched that,

00:40:00.760 I got another lump in my throat. Thanks a lot, babe.

00:40:02.660 Oh, sorry. Sorry, Lawrence. You're amazing at it. You were in Gosford Park. I mean,

00:40:08.140 so many hit movies and television shows. I mean, you're incredibly talented man.

00:40:14.660 Her mother likes you. She does too. Now I know she's not exactly a showstopper.

00:40:20.540 Her father's not keen on the idea. He'll come around and met my daughter, Lady Rupert Spandish.

00:40:26.600 Do you think so? I'm there for the money. Of course he does, but you can't let that put you

00:40:32.720 off. He's much more of an obstacle than you think. Then you must overcome that. Mustn't you?

00:40:39.160 The lady should ask if you would join her in the drawing room when you're finished.

00:40:43.080 And also, I heard you talk about this on trigonometry. Your acting background brings

00:40:48.120 you to a more emotional place in general when communicating, which of course, nobody's going

00:40:52.380 to remember in the context of your GB news remarks. A moment on GB and Dan. Dan came out and issued

00:41:00.320 what was clearly to me a hostage statement written for him by a PR person at GB. Very,

00:41:05.100 very offended by your remarks in retrospect. That's not Dan. There's zero chance that was

00:41:09.180 written by Dan. He was trying to save his skin, I think, there. I don't think it's going to work.

00:41:12.780 I expect that he's going to be fired probably today. You released a text message in response

00:41:18.180 between the two of you laughing about it after the fact to prove Dan wasn't really offended,

00:41:22.360 and you didn't really appreciate the pile on. Can things be okay between the two of you,

00:41:27.260 do you think? I want healing there because I think you're on the same side.

00:41:31.220 Ice pizza Dan every day. He also told me that this is what he was going to do. And I went,

00:41:37.120 don't do it, Dan. Don't do the hostage tweet. It's a silly thing to do. And I said,

00:41:42.120 you can also apologize without throwing me under the bus. More importantly and interestingly

00:41:46.800 for him is that he's vulnerable, right? He doesn't, he's not, he's not tough. I've learned

00:41:51.900 to be tough. I've been taught to be tough by the circumstances I've experienced in life. Dan

00:41:57.040 isn't tough. He, he's a, he's a brave guy, but he's not a tough guy. And he has experienced the

00:42:05.120 stuff that he's being forced to do to kind of apologize and capitulate to this appeasement mob

00:42:12.580 that, that GB news has become is really sad for him. I speak to him every single day. I go,

00:42:17.680 listen, man, this is going to, this is going to emancipate you. We're going to find a place. And

00:42:22.540 you know, he's going to do everything he can save his skin. But you know, when he phoned me up and

00:42:27.140 he said, I've got to send this tweet and I've got to apologize. And I'm going to throw you under

00:42:30.860 the bus. I said, listen, and without being homophobic, Dan, you're a gay guy. You don't have

00:42:35.900 two children to feed. I do. So I have an extra level of stuff that I've got to deal with that

00:42:41.640 you don't have to deal with. And I am loyal to you. I was loyal to you when they, when the byline

00:42:45.840 times came out after you, I was loyal to you and I'm loyal to my friends. And I try and be one of

00:42:51.340 these people in life who walks the walk as well as talking the talk. And sometimes I talk the talk

00:42:56.880 way too much, but at least I walk the walk. And I, I really, I have huge compassion for Dan.

00:43:01.580 I love him. I think he's a courageous, courageous reporter. I think to come out in the British media

00:43:07.540 landscape and do what he's done is incredible. And I think that the treatment he's going to get

00:43:13.980 possibly is, is a mistake for him because you don't, if they're going to walk you to the guillotine

00:43:20.780 and cut your head off, you should do so with your head held high. You shouldn't do so groveling and

00:43:25.320 begging for your, for them not to kill you. And I think that's his one mistake, but I speak to him

00:43:30.200 every day. And I, and I love him. I like, you know, I'm commanded to love people. Right. So I,

00:43:35.580 I love him. I have no beef with Dan. I have much more beef with the people above who are using him

00:43:42.620 as a weapon and who are using, you know, and, and who want to take over the British media landscape.

00:43:47.800 I'm very, very, very curious about people like Paul Marshall and where they come from and, uh,

00:43:53.820 stuff like that, you know, but Dan is a, they've lost their mission. I mean, Roger Ailes,

00:44:00.200 when you got in trouble at Fox, he had your back. He would stand up to anybody. He would never let

00:44:04.760 the outside, especially not leftists come in and decapitate his staff. That just wasn't what he

00:44:10.400 would do. He would throw himself in the line of fire and he would take the bullets for you.

00:44:13.620 This is one of the reasons why so many people feel such deep affection for him,

00:44:17.380 including yours truly, you know, it's all documented in any event. Um, now what, because I heard you say

00:44:23.680 on the show and elsewhere, you're starting to wonder whether you can stay in great Britain. Like

00:44:28.580 you're, you're starting to get a, like a little scared about what your future looks like there.

00:44:33.880 Can you expand on that? Well, I am scared, uh, of this country. I, I took a very strong stand during,

00:44:41.480 uh, COVID lockdowns. I announced every Friday night that I was having a party, uh, for everyone who

00:44:47.360 wanted to come, which may or may not be irresponsible, but that's what I thought might as well be honest.

00:44:52.120 Um, I'd noticed a real ramping up in the rhetoric against me, you know, in this situation. Now I'm

00:44:58.320 facing a conspiracy charge, you know, and conspiracy is serious. So, uh, I, for me, what I'm going to

00:45:05.640 do is I'm going to go and walk up a mountain with the person who backs me and who wants my voice in

00:45:13.720 the conversation. And we're going to discuss. You have a financial backer. Yeah. And, and I think

00:45:19.080 that the conversation I'm going to have is have we lost and is this country now an airport hotel

00:45:26.260 for migrants where they, where the local people are, uh, impoverished, are unable to support their

00:45:33.860 own families and migrants, uh, put in hotels or in really lovely, beautiful hotels while the local

00:45:41.360 people are treated like SH1T. And so I will walk up a mountain tomorrow with him because that's,

00:45:48.240 he lives near a mountain and we, we walk this mountain frequently together and we will work

00:45:53.160 out whether we've lost. And we will come back down from the mountain and work out whether we lost

00:45:57.860 because I don't think what, what I think is so fascinating about the American response to this

00:46:02.920 is like, yee-haw, fuck them. You know, it's like, good for you. Say your stuff. But in the UK,

00:46:09.260 we basically, I've said this before and I will say it again, we, we are not a democratic, uh, secular

00:46:17.180 liberal democracy. We are a country attached to a socialist healthcare system, which takes £170

00:46:24.320 billion a year to fund. And that is without subsidy, 70% of the UK tax burden. So I pay my taxes and I am

00:46:33.780 not, I can't get an appointment to see a national health service doctor. I cannot, I, I watch people

00:46:38.720 die on, uh, on, uh, on waiting lists. We have the record. We have 7.9 million people waiting on

00:46:45.180 waiting lists in the belief that the socialist system will save them. It won't. So I, I'm, I'm

00:46:52.200 wondering and worrying whether the UK has fallen totally. And I would like to explore the idea of

00:46:59.780 what exists outside of it, you know, and, but you know, I can't because of my bail conditions in it.

00:47:06.220 Right. You would, you would, if you weren't going to be in prison, uh, you're not going to get be in

00:47:09.840 prison. I would like to recommend the United States to you. We're not quite where you guys are. We do

00:47:14.600 have the beautiful first amendment, which sadly many young people want to get rid of and don't believe

00:47:18.780 in, but the vast majority of Americans still do. Uh, though it's not what it used to be. You can still

00:47:23.120 say what you want over here. The cancellation war is losing. They are losing. Um, I, I live in

00:47:29.460 Connecticut. You could come here. You could go to the great state of Texas. There are red states that

00:47:33.320 even love the people with the British accent. We all think you're smarter than we are.

00:47:37.440 And we, at least I'd said this to my team this week, Lawrence, after we had Calvin on who got

00:47:42.460 swept in up into this whole thing for just defending you. He got fired too. I want to do,

00:47:47.680 isn't he, he's such a great man. He's been such an important voice on so many issues for them to can

00:47:52.840 him is absolutely egregious, but I want to do here on the MK show, at least let's do UK day and we'll have

00:47:59.180 you. We'll have Calvin. We'll have Dan. Maybe we'll get Mark Stein. He comes on on his own anyway.

00:48:04.300 Uh, and we'll start doing something. I'll promote whatever you want to do. I'll help you guys

00:48:07.460 relaunch, but if they're not going to let you speak in great Britain, come across the pond and

00:48:12.400 fight the battle over here. We could use your help. You're absolutely right. And we're about to find

00:48:17.700 that the internet now in the United Kingdom, but it's going to be regulated by Ofcom, the very same

00:48:22.180 people that regulate what goes on on TV. So you're, what you're going to find when you go to UK

00:48:27.180 Twitter channels is this channel is blocked by Ofcom. And if you want to live in a world where

00:48:32.640 off communists decide what you say, you're living in a world which is heading very quickly towards

00:48:38.100 Gulag archipelago. And it may be a digital cancellation or it may be a physical one, but

00:48:42.800 it's, we're, we're heading into very, very dangerous waters. Well, I encourage my UK friends to get one

00:48:48.260 of those VPNs. You change the location. So you make it look like you're logging on from the United States

00:48:53.380 and then you, you will have access. I believe that's how it's done, but this is insane. People

00:48:58.300 are losing their minds. Um, and you know what? It's worth the fight. I, I, I encourage you to stay

00:49:03.480 in it there or here. We need you all the best, my friend to be continued. Oh man, Megan. Thank you so

00:49:09.540 much for me on. What a, what a, what a dreadful situation. Love to get your thoughts on it. Email me

00:49:16.660 Megan at megankelly.com. Up next, Dr. Miriam Grossman. My gosh, I'm jarred by the whole

00:49:23.100 conversation. Now we're joined by psychiatrist, Dr. Miriam Grossman. We had Dr. Grossman on back in

00:49:33.240 June on episode 568 to discuss her incredible book, Lost in Trans Nation. This is a must read

00:49:42.180 Lost in Trans Nation, a child psychiatrist's guide out of the madness. Never was a book so needed as

00:49:49.780 this one. Now it is available. She was coming on just as it was about to hit. And I'm excited to dive

00:49:55.060 deeper into it with the good doctor and get to some of the latest news on this subject. Dr. Grossman,

00:50:00.020 welcome back to the show. It's great to have you. It's great to be back with you, Megan. Thank you so

00:50:05.200 much for having me back. Oh, there's not a more important book that's been written in the past decade.

00:50:09.620 As far as I'm concerned, this is, this is the guide for all, this is what we need it for all the

00:50:13.120 parents saying, I don't know what to do. I don't know who to trust. I don't, you know, I haven't

00:50:16.940 even seen anybody outline the problem. Honestly, you've done it. And one of the things that jumped

00:50:22.220 out in me in the book that we didn't get to the last time was mourning the living. That's how you put

00:50:28.220 it. Mourning the living, the trauma that parents experience when this happens with their child. I can say

00:50:36.300 this, having had someone in my own family declare themselves a woman, you know, as a male to female,

00:50:43.080 um, I've witnessed firsthand what you're talking about. The trauma to the person on the opposite

00:50:48.380 end of that, whether it's a spouse or a parent is deep and I think almost irreversible, but can you

00:50:56.620 talk about it? Sure. Well, Megan, the parents are really the, uh, the, the silent heroes, uh, the

00:51:09.620 untold, the unsung heroes of this saga. The parents I'm speaking now about are the ones that refuse to

00:51:19.780 endorse their child's delusion. They refuse to use the new name, the new pronouns, and they will do

00:51:29.840 anything they can to, uh, prevent their child from getting on the assembly line toward medicalization.

00:51:38.660 And there's more parents than you would imagine that fit into that group. Uh, just last night,

00:51:47.160 I was speaking to one of the parent leaders and, uh, we went through all the different organizations

00:51:54.440 that exist. These are grassroots, underground, private organizations created by parents with

00:52:03.280 children who have rapid onset gender dysphoria, which is the vast majority of young people right now that

00:52:10.780 we're seeing. These are kids who previous to, uh, hitting, uh, pre-adolescence or adolescence or

00:52:18.660 young adulthood, never had any sign of being uncomfortable with their sex. So these parents

00:52:26.060 have gotten together over the past few years and because they've been abandoned by my profession,

00:52:32.920 by, uh, you know, rank and file therapists, uh, the American Psychiatric Association,

00:52:39.960 the Psychological Association, all these organizations, instead of supporting these parents who are

00:52:47.560 living in reality and are devoted and loving parents, instead of supporting them, they are demonizing

00:52:55.700 them and basically describing them as unsupportive or worse. So the parent organizations,

00:53:05.920 and there are at least 10 of them at, I mean, I'm speaking now about the English, English speaking

00:53:12.040 ones. Um, and they count among their, the parents that they are helping at least over 17,000 parents

00:53:24.080 that are getting the support and guidance that they need. They desperately need from other parents.

00:53:33.060 And so I highlight this in my book and I talk about number one, as you said, the trauma that these

00:53:43.440 parents go through when they're faced with a child who is indoctrinated and fully believes in the

00:53:52.900 delusion, the impossibility that they are, or could become the opposite sex. And that, uh, that,

00:54:01.320 that, that quote unquote transition will, uh, be the cure for their mental health ills.

00:54:09.640 Um, so these parents go through the shock and the trauma of realizing that their child, uh, has come

00:54:22.080 under the influence of outsiders who do not necessarily have their wellbeing, uh, at the forefront of their

00:54:31.020 minds. These are groomers and these are crusaders who want to promote this belief system, uh, in order

00:54:41.100 to change our society and in order to eliminate the categories of male and female. So the parents come

00:54:48.800 to this realization, some of them, um, and they begin to search for support in, in, you know, in,

00:54:58.660 in their position, because if you Megan, if you Google, if a parent goes online after their child

00:55:05.800 has made this announcement and request for a new name and pronouns and hormones, um, and the parent

00:55:12.660 sits down and Googles parents support trans child, something like that. All the organizations that are

00:55:21.260 going to come up there are going to be the affirming ones, the ones that tell the parents, put your child

00:55:28.300 in the driver's seat. Your child knows better than anybody else who they truly are. And even though it

00:55:36.720 may be difficult for you, this is for your child's welfare. The only path that they have toward a happy

00:55:45.540 and adjusted life is if they are affirmed by everyone around them. Now, more and more, especially

00:55:54.400 over the past months or year, I would say, there are more and more parents who are wary of that

00:56:03.060 message. Thank God. But those parents don't always know where to look. And because if you go online

00:56:10.560 looking for these groups, it might be more difficult to find them. And you're certainly

00:56:14.540 not going to find out about them from your pediatrician or your guidance counselor at school.

00:56:21.300 That's not going to happen. Those people nine times out of 10 are, are part of the problem here.

00:56:28.180 So there's a lot of, uh, word of mouth, uh, sharing of information. And there's, there's just a lot of

00:56:36.020 sort of underground activity. And in order to join one of these groups, again, there's 17,000 parents,

00:56:44.560 over 17,000 parents that are, or have been involved in these support groups, parents supporting other

00:56:52.200 parents, um, in order to join those groups takes a lot of time and effort. You're not automatically

00:56:59.580 admitted. You have to be vetted. And it is a strenuous process. Now, why is that? Because

00:57:07.820 parents are terrified that they are, are going to be, uh, exposed as, uh, you know, having these

00:57:16.240 beliefs that go contrary to the narrative, having these, uh, so-called transphobic, bigoted beliefs,

00:57:23.560 and they're terrified. They don't want their child to find out. They don't want perhaps other

00:57:29.900 relatives to find out and they don't want child protective services to find out. So there's

00:57:35.720 tremendous amount of fear. I, of course there, of course there, and we've talked about this before

00:57:42.560 about how now all the, the, the studies show that if you just leave your child alone and you don't

00:57:49.440 affirm and you don't switch pronouns and you don't switch names and you don't allow social transition,

00:57:54.140 nevermind all that follows, your child will grow out of his or her gender confusion. So the odds are

00:58:01.980 in your favor. If you don't intervene, you know, to, to not affirm the odds are in your favor that your

00:58:07.460 child will, will resort, revert back to understanding he's a, he, and she's a, she, but instead these

00:58:14.660 activists, including in the psychiatric profession, push the opposite, they push social transition.

00:58:20.960 And you write in the book about how this leaves parents with trauma of their own, you know, that

00:58:27.020 when they, the psychiatrist telling them, would you have a rather have a live daughter or a dead son

00:58:31.220 or whatever the transition is. And that then it's almost like a death in the family for these parents

00:58:37.400 when they could just go the route of not affirming and let the child grow out of it. They're pressured

00:58:41.800 into affirming and they suffer almost a death in the family with these quote secondary losses. Can

00:58:47.780 you explain that? Sure. Well, you know, uh, uh, we're talking about loss, but this is a very

00:58:54.780 complicated loss. It's not, there are simple losses and simple grief, and then there's complicated grief.

00:59:01.760 So a simple grief as terrible as it might be would be a grief in which, you know, a person suffers a

00:59:09.880 terrible loss. Uh, but it's not complicated by, by guilt or anger or regret. What could I have done?

00:59:20.520 What did I do wrong? Um, why did this person, you know, go and do this to me? Um, simple grief,

00:59:30.700 most people get over. They can, they, they're sad, they grieve, they miss the person. Um,

00:59:38.100 but they're able to move on after a certain amount of time. This is a, this is an altogether different

00:59:43.900 thing. You see, this is obviously not an actual death. I mean, you still have a live child. It's

00:59:52.600 just sometimes an altogether different child, not the child that you knew for 12 or 15 or 20 years.

01:00:00.580 It's a child that has changed physically. Obviously, you know, if there's been medicalization,

01:00:07.160 it's a child whose personality has changed and it's a child that's been indoctrinated to believe

01:00:14.260 that if you don't support them on this dangerous path, a path by the way that, that, uh, involves being

01:00:23.460 a lifelong, uh, consumer of, uh, pharmaceuticals. So, uh, you know, addicted or dependent, I should say

01:00:32.220 on pharmaceuticals for the rest of your life. If you do not support that and you do not support the

01:00:39.460 various, uh, medical interventions and surgeries that, uh, have so many horrific adverse effects,

01:00:48.700 um, that you are a bad parent. You are a, your, your home is unsafe. You are bigoted. You are

01:00:58.780 closed-minded. You, you're simply, you're, you're toxic. And, and so the kids have been indoctrinated,

01:01:06.060 not only with all the stuff that, you know, the delusion about their new identity, being this,

01:01:12.180 being a solution to their mental health issues, they're indoctrinated to think that anyone that

01:01:16.920 doesn't go along with it is a terrible, toxic person. So the very parents who are the most

01:01:24.520 devoted to their children and, you know, refuse to go along, you know, refuse to, to, uh, deny reality

01:01:34.380 and refuse to sign on the dotted line, uh, permitting these medical interventions,

01:01:41.300 they are being framed as the enemy, enemy number one. So this is, sorry, I was going to say that

01:01:51.460 you write in the book, um, you have to look at what these parents go through saying, for example,

01:01:57.780 the past has been erased. Your child rewrote it to fit his beliefs. I never liked those swim trunks.

01:02:04.660 I was miserable on that vacation. In that birthday video, I was only acting like I was happy.

01:02:10.260 Cherished memories are stained by the narrative. He might insist you remove and delete all the old

01:02:15.900 photos of him. He knows his life history better than you do. I cannot imagine the pain of this.

01:02:23.440 And then to know on top of it, that in case after case, it was the school guidance counselor

01:02:29.580 or a teacher or even a pediatrician, nevermind a psychiatrist or a psychologist you brought him to

01:02:36.540 for help who pushed him, who pushed him down this lane, separating him from you in every way

01:02:43.500 a child can be separated from his mother. That's correct. And so the parents are on this impossible

01:02:50.960 tightrope. They're walking a tightrope because they don't, they're, they're unwilling to deny the

01:02:57.120 reality. They're unwilling to approve of this, this plan to live as the other sex, but they're,

01:03:06.300 they're terrified that they may lose the child emotionally, that the child, you know, that this

01:03:12.420 wedge that's placed between the child and his or her loving family is so insidious and, and so huge.

01:03:21.660 And I tell stories in the book of families in which the wedge, you know, ended up in, in terrible

01:03:30.120 tragedies of not only. We have to talk about one. We have to talk about Yaeli. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, well,

01:03:39.920 Yaeli was a teenage girl with mental health issues living in Southern California. Um,

01:03:47.740 and she became influenced by people at her school, as well as, uh, uh, I believe some moms who were

01:03:58.020 what are called glitter moms, LGBT, you know, uh, rainbow moms who, uh, see themselves as saviors

01:04:09.620 of children that come from families that, uh, may not be so positive about the transgender, uh,

01:04:18.120 ideology. And they see themselves as stepping up and saving these kids from their own parents.

01:04:25.580 And they will often influence the kids. They will, uh, open their homes to them. They will put them in

01:04:32.380 touch with organizations that will further alienate them from their parents. And that is what happened to

01:04:37.840 Yaeli. She got involved with these groups and with these parents and with people at school and her

01:04:44.720 parent, her mother, uh, Abigail. And Abigail has spoken many times publicly about this. Uh, Abigail

01:04:54.480 Martinez is her name. Uh, people should go online and hear her speaking at heritage foundation.

01:05:00.900 If you can stomach it, if you can stomach it,

01:05:04.200 Don't tell him the story. I'll play some of it. Okay. So, uh, the long and short of it was that

01:05:10.320 Yaeli over the years was alienated from her, from her parents and her mother, even, you know,

01:05:16.520 at a certain point, her mother was willing to go along with it. She was willing to do anything.

01:05:21.180 She used the new names and the new pronouns, but it was too late. Uh, Yaeli had moved out. She went

01:05:28.220 from one place to the other. She became, uh, she was emancipated because she was led to believe that

01:05:34.460 if she's, well, this is true in California. If you're emancipated and emancipated minor,

01:05:38.720 you can make your own medical decisions. She was placed on testosterone. She was taken by

01:05:44.740 a, a, a, a radical LGBT group to a hospital in Los Angeles where she was placed on testosterone.

01:05:52.120 She was on testosterone a number of years. None of this was helping her underlying mental health

01:05:58.120 issues. Her mother kept trying, kept fighting, going to court every month, trying to fight for her.

01:06:05.560 Uh, she committed suicide. Uh, yeah, Ellie committed suicide. Now this is not an isolated story.

01:06:16.260 Uh, this is the only story I know of so far in which the child has ended suicide has ended up

01:06:24.080 suiciding. I hope that it's the only one, but there are multiple stories of a minors being removed from

01:06:33.920 the family by child protective services, or simply becoming so estranged because of that wedge that's

01:06:43.000 placed between them. And because the child is so convinced that their, their homes are unsafe,

01:06:50.200 that, uh, they simply, you know, they leave and they are either completely estranged or partially

01:06:58.680 estranged. And the numbers for that are quite large. There are quite a lot of families now that

01:07:04.720 are going through that. The estrangement of their child, because the child has been indoctrinated with

01:07:11.480 this idea that parents who will, who live in reality and will not accept the delusion and parents who

01:07:19.760 will not agree to these dangerous interventions are horrible, awful, transphobic people that you just

01:07:27.700 need to cut out of your life. Right. Here is Abigail Martinez. Yeah. Ellie's mother, um, talking about her

01:07:37.040 daughter. My daughter was murdered by a gender ideology. CPS took my daughter when she was 16 years

01:07:46.200 old. It was helped by her public school counselor and LGBTQ group rise in another trans identified girl.

01:07:57.060 My daughter was taken from her loving home because the state of California claimed I was abusive

01:08:05.700 for not affirming her trans identity. I lost my daughter over a name and a pronoun.

01:08:14.560 My daughter was not a boy trapped in a girl's body. He had mental health issues.

01:08:24.340 Hmm. And it's true of so many of them. They just don't care what the other issues are in the way that

01:08:30.760 we, you know, if you go in there and you are a perfectly healthy looking girl and you say, I think

01:08:37.880 I'm a boy. They'll say you're a boy. If you go in there, you're a perfectly healthy looking girl. And you

01:08:43.120 say, I'm fat, I'm fat. And I need to lose 100 of my 120 pounds. They will say, let's talk about your

01:08:51.380 other issues. They will not accept. They will not affirm. But in this one lane, there's only one

01:08:58.020 accepted course of treatment. And it's just to affirm the delusion. And Megan, my professional

01:09:03.500 organizations and my board of medicine is telling me that I must do the same. And it's telling me that

01:09:10.440 when I tell a patient of mine that she's a girl and she will always be a girl, she may feel like a boy.

01:09:18.880 And I want to try and understand that with her. But she is a girl and she will always be a girl.

01:09:26.160 Um, then that is something that I could be investigated for. Uh, believe it or not,

01:09:33.660 that is the world that we're living in. So are you carrying away with being so outspoken on this

01:09:39.160 issue? Have you had any pushback? Well, sure. There's pushback. You know, I, I'm on my own. I'm not

01:09:47.820 part of a clinic or a hospital. Um, I have my own private practice and, uh, I'm, I'm taking a risk

01:09:55.600 by doing this. Uh, but it's, it's a risk I'm willing to take, but many people are not. I get

01:10:02.840 emails from many, many professionals, um, psychiatrists, social workers, psychologists that,

01:10:09.260 uh, are too fearful to do this. And, uh, I get it. I don't like it. I think that they should do it

01:10:16.600 even if they are fearful, but that's the way our things are right now. There are others,

01:10:21.640 quite a few others speaking up and every day there's going to be more people speaking up.

01:10:27.220 Um, you know, this is just, there's no medical basis to any of this. And I'm speaking again,

01:10:34.640 I'm speaking about the teenagers, you know, there's different groups who have gender dysphoria,

01:10:39.760 but I'm speaking now about the thousands and thousands of kids. There's a, uh, the percent

01:10:45.860 increase in the past 10 years is about 5,000% increase in the number of kids, mostly girls

01:10:51.980 who are presenting and insisting that they are, or they want to be the opposite sex. Um,

01:10:58.540 so just getting back to Abigail and the parents. So Abigail is one of the heroines, uh, you know,

01:11:07.060 of this saga. She is standing up, she's telling her story. She's testifying in, in, uh, court. Uh,

01:11:14.320 and, and, and as you know, California, uh, passed a resolution, uh, that stated a few months ago,

01:11:23.000 since we last spoke, Megan, they passed a resolution in their state legislature, which says

01:11:29.560 that calls upon courts, family courts, that when the judge is making decisions about custody or

01:11:37.300 visitation, uh, uh, and is deciding between parents, you know, uh, that, that the judge should consider,

01:11:45.660 uh, the parent who is not going with the narrative, who is not affirming the new identity,

01:11:52.940 the delusion that that is, uh, potential harm to the child and that the parent who is going with

01:12:01.020 the delusion and is promoting, uh, you know, the placement of this child on the assembly line

01:12:07.480 toward medicalization, that is in the best interest they're saying of the child. Now this,

01:12:15.820 you know, parent, this is this, this right now, this is only in California, but this is going to be,

01:12:20.880 go to many, many other States. And interesting, isn't it? That the parent who typically is against

01:12:29.200 the affirmation and the medicalization are the dads. Uh, so, you know, we have many instances now

01:12:39.340 of one parent is going to be even more alienated from the child. Uh, another family is going to be

01:12:48.800 even more broken up and another child will be placed because of the courts, because of this legislation

01:12:56.760 in California, more children. But Gavin Newsom refused to sign that one. No, that was a different

01:13:03.240 one. Oh, I think it was this bill. I mean, there's been, there's been a few, there's one that says,

01:13:09.160 um, you're emancipated when you, when you leave the house and you go into a homeless shelter

01:13:13.460 and then your parents have no right to know what you're doing or weigh in on it. But then this one

01:13:17.700 where they said the parent could lose custody because, uh, he's not affirming this. They passed it

01:13:24.620 in the state house and in the state Senate and Gavin Newsom just refused to sign it in September.

01:13:28.840 Okay. I'm going to have to check politics. I think the one that was like a week ago with the came out

01:13:34.920 of Gavin Newsom's office was, uh, he would not sign the one having to do with schools having to report

01:13:41.920 gender transition. I'm pretty sure he refused to sign. I we've, we've covered this extensively. Yeah.

01:13:48.320 He refused to sign it. Okay. Uh, but he's been in favor of virtually every

01:13:51.700 one of these laws that makes it harder for parents to, to keep an eye on, to know about, to, you know,

01:13:57.020 do anything other than affirm the child's identity. And this is where the law is clearly going in these

01:14:02.080 more blue States that are pushing this on us. They're fighting the bands, but now we've had some

01:14:06.320 victories, right? The, uh, there was the sixth circuit opinion coming out of Tennessee and another

01:14:10.780 state saying the band, the bands on cross-gender hormones and treatments stand. They stand. We're

01:14:17.060 going to enforce them. We had a decision out of the eighth circuit saying, um, you cannot force

01:14:21.560 the kids to say the other kids pronouns. That is not an okay thing to try to force on children.

01:14:26.460 It's too ambiguous. These laws and so on, which that's great. It's a free speech victory. Had a

01:14:30.240 Supreme court decision at the end of last term, affirming the right to free speech on these kinds

01:14:34.980 of issues. So we're making some headway, but not in your community. Your community has got its head in

01:14:39.560 the sand, the psychiatric community, right? Saying none of it's happening. Affirm, affirm, affirm. Anybody who

01:14:44.980 doesn't is a bigot. Okay. There are some positive signs within the mental health community. Um, I'm

01:14:52.740 not yet jumping up and down in, you know, victory, but there are some positive signs. Uh, the American

01:14:59.220 Academy of Pediatrics, which for years has just been, you know, just completely taken over by the

01:15:06.880 crusaders in that organization. They did, uh, after a few years of refusing to consider a, uh, a resolution

01:15:15.740 that was put, put forth by, uh, two dozen members to re to re look at their policy on this issue.

01:15:25.180 They have now said that they're going to take another look, whether it's just, you know, words

01:15:30.840 or real. I don't know. I don't trust them. Well, uh, look, I'm trying to be hopeful. Uh,

01:15:40.300 I don't trust them either. I don't trust them either. But, uh, I think that more and more people,

01:15:47.820 at least on the conservative side of things, I'm not saying that, you know, CNN and, and, and,

01:15:54.760 and NBC, you know, are, are, are, are covering all, they're certainly not inviting me on there.

01:15:59.740 Um, but there is more exposure to, to our side and the parents, there's more and more documentaries.

01:16:10.740 Um, they're speaking up, they're testifying. Some of them, most of them, we want to remain

01:16:16.120 anonymous for their own reasons. The D transitioners are coming out of the woodwork.

01:16:22.360 They are getting organized. They are speaking up. They are testifying. They have their suing.

01:16:27.760 They are suing. Yes, they are. The lawyers. Finally, I've been waiting years. Where are the

01:16:34.740 lawyers? I was always asking. Yeah. The lawyers do best. Sue, this is what you love to do. Do it,

01:16:43.240 do it for these people who have been obviously harmed as minors. And it's, it's not something

01:16:47.620 that you can consent to a lifetime of infertility, of being unable to achieve climax of, you know,

01:16:53.560 having your breasts chopped off of having your penis chopped off. I mean, like there's, it's insane

01:16:57.800 to pretend that a child can ever give informed consent to any of that. I want to ask you one

01:17:03.680 question on this. I mentioned this in passing on my show a couple of weeks ago and it, it like took

01:17:09.540 off with parents discussing this in, on Instagram and elsewhere. Um, our pediatrician, we're, we're new

01:17:16.900 to this pediatrician group because we just moved to Connecticut two years ago. Um, but they,

01:17:21.600 and our kids are getting a little bit older now. Now we have a 14 year old, a 12 year old and a 10

01:17:25.220 year old, but the pediatrician said, you know, next year, I guess that'll be this year for our,

01:17:31.480 our eldest and soon for our daughter. We're going to ask mom to leave the exam room at your annual

01:17:39.560 physical. And I'm just going to have a private conversation with you child. And I think that this

01:17:45.760 is about sex ed. Like, are you having sex? You don't want mom to know here's what protection,

01:17:50.780 you know, all that. But all these parents started chiming in saying, my kid told me they raised the

01:17:57.260 gender issue. You know, are you sure you're a boy? Do you, you know, what, do you have any doubts

01:18:01.740 about being a boy? What should, what do you think about this? Do you think it's okay to leave your

01:18:07.900 14 year old with a pediatrician alone without you there, you know, to say and ask about anything?

01:18:14.780 Absolutely not. Unless this is a pediatrician that, you know, so well, you know, for years,

01:18:22.220 and you know, where she or he stands on these various issues of sexuality and gender. Absolutely

01:18:28.740 not. Of course, that's what they're at. They're asking, do you have sex with girls, boys, both or

01:18:35.700 neither? And they're asking, do you identify as a girl, a boy, both neither or something else?

01:18:43.860 Of course, that's what they're asking. That's what they're advised by their American Academy

01:18:48.660 of Pediatrics to, to, to ask. And the assumption is, the assumption is made, Megan, that parents are,

01:18:57.460 uh, you know, you know, parents are just, uh, uh, not to be trusted and they are often on the wrong

01:19:06.100 side of things and they have the, the, you know, harmful, backward, uh, homophobic, transphobic ideas.

01:19:14.980 And, uh, that, that, that kids need somebody outside the family that they can be honest with and get

01:19:22.340 the information that they need. So this is absolutely undermining parents. A hundred percent.

01:19:28.940 I would suggest people go to the website, the organization called, uh, the American College

01:19:36.020 of Pediatricians, which is a group of, of pediatricians and other professionals that broke off

01:19:44.200 from the American Academy of Pediatricians when they realized, realized how far to the left

01:19:50.640 that group was going. American College of Pediatricians. They just actually, about a week

01:19:57.680 ago, they, they have a new website, uh, on the whole gender issue. Uh, fantastic website.

01:20:06.380 It's called gender, gender integrity, something like that. Gender, not sure what it's called,

01:20:13.460 but we'll look American College of Pediatricians. Wow. And that's so good to know. I'm so glad this

01:20:20.020 exists. Yeah. You can get a referral to a pediatrician, uh, on, you know, from those people

01:20:26.640 and you can be sure that they are not going to insist on taking your child aside privately

01:20:32.660 and influencing them in one way or the other. Uh, and there are pediatricians that might see your

01:20:39.580 child virtually as well. Right. When you, you can be there, I should ask you, I meant to,

01:20:44.960 um, the 17,000 parents who are the underground, um, Oh, you can't hear me. Oh, hello. Hello.

01:20:52.380 Can you hear me now? Yeah. Now I can hear you. Okay. Um, on the 17,000 parents who are banding

01:20:58.300 together and they're strict about letting people into the group. Yeah. All, everyone's going to

01:21:02.760 want to know how they get in. Anybody who's dealing with this right now is asking what website do I go

01:21:06.900 to? How do I find the groups? Okay. There are so many groups. I don't want to give you like 10

01:21:11.300 groups, right? I'm going to give you just my website, Miriam Grossman, MD.com. And then I

01:21:19.000 have a tab with resources and on those resources, you're going to find those groups that you connect

01:21:26.020 to. Okay, good. Thank goodness. People need it. My God, they need it. And, and in case you think you

01:21:32.680 don't need it, this story, uh, was in the news. Is it just today? I'm trying to think when this hit,

01:21:37.980 but it was, it was, um, hold on. Let me find it. It's talking about the messaging that's going out

01:21:45.520 to schools. Oh yes. Los Angeles unified school district. I believe that's the largest public

01:21:50.880 school district, possibly even in America, definitely in California and city journal reported

01:21:56.940 a week ago, not even that this school district is announcing. It's going to be celebrating national

01:22:03.620 coming out day in elementary classrooms during the week of October 9th through 13th. That's coming

01:22:11.080 up. That's next week, October 9th national coming out day. What is this? Speaking of glitter moms,

01:22:16.140 um, it's to celebrate LGBTQ plus, uh, history month, which they say is October. And they want to

01:22:24.740 reinforce with the elementary school children, uh, what to them for them to be thinking about their race,

01:22:30.840 ethnicity, gender identity, religion, sexuality, and mental health. The purpose is to teach them

01:22:37.580 about intersectionality where you can check one or more, two or more of those boxes. Um, the document

01:22:44.560 also promotes two famous transgender people that they want the schools to discuss with elementary

01:22:52.500 school children each day of the week. These famous people include jazz Jennings and Elliot page.

01:23:00.160 Elliot was of course, formerly known as Ellen page and starred in the movie. Juno jazz Jennings

01:23:07.020 has, this is somebody who was, this is a boy who's trying to transition to girl and has documented the

01:23:16.380 whole thing on a reality TV show. And they, this boy has had several botched surgeries has been through

01:23:25.900 hell, but they want, that's not going to be disclosed. They want to celebrate jazz living up to his true,

01:23:33.540 I guess they'd say her true gender identity. And they're voicing this on elementary school system

01:23:40.480 or children in the largest school district in the nation. Okay. Well, Megan, none of us should be

01:23:47.160 surprised. This is a crusade and they will stop at nothing. This is a crusade. And I, I know that

01:23:59.360 people don't expect me to say this as a doctor. This is evil. It's just plain evil. Okay. There's,

01:24:07.700 it's not a black, it's a, it's not nuanced. It's not, it's a, for me, it's a black and white issue.

01:24:15.700 It is simply evil to indoctrinate kids with these falsehoods, with these lies. Jazz Jennings,

01:24:24.900 as much as jazz appears female, because he was, uh, put on, uh, you know, blockers and hormones at a

01:24:35.680 very early age. And so jazz does appear to be a female jazz is not, is, is not a woman. Now we are

01:24:46.000 indoctrinating kids with these lies and we are encouraging them down a dangerous path. We are

01:24:57.180 luring them with the promise that if they go down this path, they will be happy and popular and fit

01:25:05.680 in, and they will be their authentic selves and they will have wonderful lives. Now, just to get back

01:25:13.420 to jazz for a second, jazz it's well-known because jazz mentions this quite often, the long list of

01:25:22.300 mental health issues that jazz suffers from, uh, anxiety, depression, panic attacks, not feeling

01:25:32.500 secure about who he is. There was one scene that was so telling between jazz and his mother in which he

01:25:42.640 was just weeping and saying to her, you know, I just want to be who I am. I it's, you know, I'm,

01:25:50.740 I just want to be who I am. In other words, I don't know who I am for jazz. It's just such a tragic

01:26:00.200 story. And to put this person up in front of, uh, preschoolers, which, which they do because jazz

01:26:08.200 wrote that book, I am jazz in which he says, I, uh, uh, I was born, uh, with a girl's brain and a boy's

01:26:18.400 body as if that is possible. That is not possible. We are not Legos. We are not Mr. Potato heads

01:26:27.680 that can be improperly assembled. So, um, it is evil. We are luring these kids down a dangerous

01:26:38.580 path. Each one of them, by the way, not to get into the money because I'm not the money expert

01:26:44.680 here. If you want to talk about money, Jennifer Bilek is the person she's, she's coming on. She was

01:26:51.160 booked. We had to switch it for, uh, I can't remember breaking news, but she's definitely coming

01:26:55.080 and she's done. I'm so happy. I mean, I don't know who that guy was. The Tucker Carlson had

01:27:01.600 complete unknown. As far as I know, no qualifications, basically just regurgitate,

01:27:09.120 you know, all of Jennifer's work. I'm not going to, it's just wrong. So I'm glad that you're having

01:27:14.300 her on there. So we are, um, enticing these little kids with rainbows and glitter and unicorns,

01:27:22.560 and it is simply evil. And, and by the way, they're very open about wanting to have access

01:27:30.520 to our children at the youngest age. Not only do we see this in the Los Angeles public school system,

01:27:35.120 there's this group called high tops, which whatever's left of project Veritas decided to

01:27:40.480 investigate. And they got this so-called youth focused LGBTQ, uh, nonprofit on camera,

01:27:47.900 their executives talking about how critical it is to get to them when they're young,

01:27:52.880 got to get in there while they're young. Here's a little bit of the clip.

01:27:56.880 Most critical time to be there is grades five through eight, because you want to catch kids

01:28:01.400 when they're starting puberty, because that's the time in which identity formation is central to their

01:28:06.660 lives. However, early intervention is key. So we actually are designing a kindergarten through

01:28:14.160 grade two curriculum this summer. And I will tell you one of the most rewarding experiences, Nikki,

01:28:21.080 uh, we were in a local school system in an elementary school and, uh, we were in grades three,

01:28:27.480 four, and five. And after we were there, um, five students went to the principal's office and came out.

01:28:34.680 So we are really intentionally going into younger and younger grades.

01:28:39.060 Oh, okay. Make of that. Get your kids out of these schools. Parents, just get them out,

01:28:46.980 do whatever you have to do. Homeschool, you know, move, move away. This is poison.

01:28:55.360 That's what we did. Oh, that's, this is a New Jersey group. This is a New Jersey group,

01:29:00.780 but there, this was happening at our schools in New York city, private schools where they were

01:29:04.660 pushing the agenda. You have to be so vigilant as a parent and figure out what groups coming in.

01:29:09.300 What's the messaging going to be? Sex ed is not what it used to be kindergarten. For God's sake,

01:29:13.140 you're not thinking about this in kindergarten. Well, no, you gotta, you gotta be thinking about

01:29:17.500 it before kindergarten. And in fact, I give parents in my book, so many tools, Megan, in which they,

01:29:24.580 you know, they have to reach the child first. The other side, the proponents of this. Yeah.

01:29:30.220 The proponents of this are going after your child. You need to reach your child first. If you don't,

01:29:36.600 I, I prompt, trust me, they're just waiting to reach your child as you just, you know,

01:29:42.800 demonstrating. So, so the parents have to reach their child early with the message that, yes,

01:29:48.980 we are all either boys or girls and we are boy, either a boy or a girl from the first moment that

01:29:56.180 we ever existed. It's not a random hit or miss designation that's made in the delivery room by

01:30:02.800 some doctor or nurse as if they could just make a random mistake. No, this is in every single one

01:30:11.180 of your cells from the moment of conception. And we want our children to understand that it's

01:30:17.680 permanent and it is wonderful. And that there are all different kinds of boys and different kinds

01:30:25.360 of girls. And if you don't fit in with, you know, the stereotypical behaviors and interests,

01:30:31.400 that's fine. Everyone is a mosaic and we have to celebrate that mosaic of male and female

01:30:38.680 without harming the body. That is the message you have to reach your child with early on.

01:30:45.920 You've got to, even though it's awkward, you may think your kid's too young. They're coming for them.

01:30:51.100 So you got to get there first and play defense. Stand by. Dr. Grossman stays with us. Isn't she

01:30:56.620 a gem? What a treasure you are. So glad to have you here today.

01:31:01.540 Parental rights are being used to thwart any rights of autonomy that the kid might have. And I'm sorry,

01:31:08.880 but kids do have autonomy. We've already established this. For example, if a kid needs a blood transfusion

01:31:14.680 and the parents don't want to, it's not the parent's right to refuse that blood transfusion

01:31:19.260 for that kid because it is lifesaving. In the same respect, if a kid only needs to like use a

01:31:26.500 different name and pronoun in school, there might be a reason and a good reason they're not coming

01:31:30.380 out at home and they need a safe place to be themselves. And so to hell with this idea of parental

01:31:37.560 rights when it comes to kids who have their own consent and then their own bodily autonomy and their

01:31:43.800 own autonomy to their personhood that need to be protected. Okay. That's a trans activist on camera

01:31:50.660 courtesy of libs of tick tock came to our attention who obviously has nothing like Miriam Grossman's

01:31:55.680 pedigree. She's a psychiatrist and you've got these armchair wannabe psychiatrists trying to do what you

01:32:00.940 do with a bunch of nonsense. She has not authored as Dr. Grossman has the new book lost in trans nation,

01:32:08.760 a child psychiatrist's guide out of the madness. And I would like to correct my use of the term

01:32:14.100 she that appeared to be a he pretending to be a she. So what about child autonomy and comparing this

01:32:21.580 to a blood transfusion? No, no, this is all about, uh, the state taking over, uh, uh, you know,

01:32:31.380 the parent's role. It's, it's about, uh, you know, takes a village to raise a child. No,

01:32:38.980 it takes a nuclear, strong nuclear family to raise a child. And, uh, you know, the argument there about

01:32:48.240 the blood transfusion, uh, what she or, or he is referring to is probably those extremely rare cases

01:32:55.660 and might, uh, for religious reasons, oppose blood transfusions. And so, uh, it might be,

01:33:04.120 you know, taken in front of a judge on an emergency basis. I actually saw something like that when I was

01:33:09.300 working in pediatrics many years ago. Um, but, but this is nothing. No, it's, it's ridiculous. Okay.

01:33:19.400 It's just BS. Um, you know, the, the, these families that we're talking about here in almost

01:33:27.220 every case, these are not abusive families. These are loving and devoted parents that live in reality

01:33:36.660 and understand that their child has been sucked into this system that, uh, this cult, uh, that has,

01:33:46.900 uh, convinced them, uh, of this delusion. It's a delusion for a child or anyone for that matter

01:33:55.640 to think that they are, or can change their sex. There are people that can try and do that,

01:34:02.300 but what they achieve is just a synthetic persona. They do not become an actual man or woman,

01:34:10.340 but Megan, I know that we only have like a minute left and I want to finish by,

01:34:16.900 just calling out to parents, the parents that are going through something like this right now in

01:34:22.920 their families. I want to tell them that they're not alone. Parents who, uh, who are choosing the

01:34:31.680 only rational and, and, and healthy path, which is to resist the delusion and resist all the

01:34:39.480 organizations and the groups that are promoting the delusion. You are not alone. And there's so much

01:34:46.500 help that's available to you. And I wrote this book, uh, uh, lost in trans nation. I used, you know,

01:34:55.460 I put my heart and my soul into it because I saw there was such a tremendous need, uh, for parents

01:35:03.080 to have tools and information to help navigate this ordeal. And parents who have not yet,

01:35:10.620 parents who don't enter the, who are not in this ordeal right now, they need to plan to,

01:35:18.520 uh, they need to inoculate their families against it. And my book also provides that inoculation.

01:35:25.680 So I, there's nothing else like it. I mean, I've been following the literature on this and I've been

01:35:30.120 reading it all. There's nothing else like this. This is the book we needed parents. It's lost in

01:35:35.420 translation. I have no financial stake in this. I I'm just a huge fan of Dr. Grossman lost in

01:35:40.760 translation. Read it, prepare. I mean, you have to take responsibility now. Remember when we had on

01:35:46.680 the parenting expert and he was saying, once they, once they're over the bridge on this,

01:35:50.280 it's very hard to do anything. Now's the time. And by the way, the website that Dr. Grossman was

01:35:54.620 talking about earlier from the college of American pediatricians is biological integrity.org. Miriam,

01:36:00.460 thank you so much for being here. God bless you for all the work you do. Thank you, Megan. God bless

01:36:05.540 you too. Oh, what a gem. Uh, before we go next week, I want to tell you, we'll be joined by Senator

01:36:11.080 Ted Cruz, Senator Rand Paul, Dr. Drew, and the guys from Ruthless. What a week. Uh, have a great weekend.

01:36:21.760 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:36:30.460 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show.

The Megyn Kelly Show - October 06, 2023

Exclusive interview with Laurence Fox About His Arrest and GB News Exit, and Dangers Parents Face with Their Kids on Trans Ideology, with Dr. Miriam Grossman ｜ Ep. 642

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