The Megyn Kelly Show - Exposing The Embarrassing Elites, with Sohrab Ahmari, Krystal Ball, Saagar Enjeti, and Dan Abrams ｜ Ep. 113

00:00:00.320 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:12.000 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.380 Today, the embarrassment of the elites.

00:00:19.360 Whether it's Hunter Biden, the COVID lab theory, or the influence and importance of the mainstream media,

00:00:28.060 our elites have gotten it wrong time and time again as they've tried to stifle us, shut us up, embarrass us.

00:00:36.180 It's wound up coming back to haunt them.

00:00:38.540 And they're being exposed now in a really important, profound way.

00:00:43.100 That's sort of the theme of where we're going with today's show and with today's guests.

00:00:47.180 So we're going to kick it off with a guy named Saurabh Amari.

00:00:50.340 He writes for the New York Post and he's a deep thinker.

00:00:54.320 This is a guy who's got a new book out, but he's been thinking about the conservative movement

00:00:58.000 and where we are in society for a while now and was really behind a lot of the Hunter Biden

00:01:03.880 pushing and arguing and standing up for his paper saying they should not have been silenced on that.

00:01:10.540 And it turns out he was 100% right.

00:01:12.280 Where's his apology?

00:01:13.660 Not forthcoming.

00:01:15.100 We'll get into his new book and what he thinks about the latest pushback on critical race theory

00:01:19.560 by a Carmel mom, the latest racist invited to speak on the campus of Yale about how she 1.00

00:01:25.640 has fantasies of killing white people and the media yawn in response and so on. 0.93

00:01:31.280 And then we're going to bring on Crystal and Sagar back. 0.99

00:01:33.640 Crystal Ball, Sagar and Jetty who have a new adventure.

00:01:36.800 They've decided to branch out.

00:01:38.480 They're leaving the Hill.

00:01:39.640 They're going independent because they wanted to live their values.

00:01:43.160 They've been talking about the collapse of mainstream media and they didn't want corporate

00:01:46.380 backers.

00:01:46.800 They wanted to be on their own.

00:01:48.520 So what do they think about where we are today in terms of media coverage and just the messaging,

00:01:54.480 the control of these mighty messengers over the rest of us?

00:01:58.040 And then my pal Dan Abrams is back.

00:02:00.280 He runs Abrams Media and the website Mediaite, which I recommend to everybody.

00:02:04.500 And he's here for a couple of reasons.

00:02:05.940 Number one, we're going to talk about the horrific performance by the media when it comes to these

00:02:09.460 issues, in particular, the COVID lab leak theory.

00:02:11.440 But number two, he's written a very cool new book on Jack Ruby.

00:02:16.800 On the assassination by Jack Ruby.

00:02:20.080 He's the guy who killed Oswald after Oswald killed JFK.

00:02:23.300 Remember?

00:02:24.120 And so he's taken a deep dive into that case to figure out what really happened.

00:02:29.960 Was Jack Ruby working for the mob or Castro or somebody else?

00:02:35.440 And this is kind of his thing.

00:02:36.440 He's got a series on interesting legal cases that have been, I don't know, ignored or forgotten.

00:02:40.520 The latest is called Kennedy's Avenger.

00:02:42.360 And I think you'll find the discussion really interesting.

00:02:43.860 So, packed show for you today.

00:02:45.660 So we're going to kick things off with Sarabh Amari in one second.

00:02:49.040 He's the one who has just authored this book, which is tearing it up.

00:02:51.900 He was talking about it with Tucker.

00:02:53.020 Really good discussion.

00:02:54.220 It's called The Unbroken Thread.

00:02:57.240 Discovering the Wisdom of Tradition in an Age of Chaos.

00:03:01.040 He's up in 60 seconds.

00:03:02.100 Don't go away.

00:03:08.360 So, Rob, thank you so much for being here.

00:03:10.780 Megan, thank you for having me.

00:03:11.880 I'm excited for this conversation.

00:03:14.000 I'm a big fan of your writings and the way you think and your boldness in expressing opinions that, you know, even, quote, your side won't like.

00:03:23.920 So I admire you as a disruptor.

00:03:26.980 And let me start with the thing.

00:03:28.260 I don't really I don't have huge interest any longer in the fight with David French, but I did at the time.

00:03:33.280 And let me tell you something.

00:03:34.240 You changed my mind because I'd always liked David French National Review.

00:03:38.540 He's sort of, you know, I don't know.

00:03:40.420 He says people accuse me of being a squish, but he's, you know, I don't know.

00:03:45.600 People can make up their own minds.

00:03:46.620 But you were making really important points about how his future of conservatism is not the future of conservatism and that every battle is going to be lost if we follow sort of if the right follows the David French approach.

00:03:59.780 And I was like, oh, so mean.

00:04:01.980 So, Rob, so mean.

00:04:04.000 And the more I read what you wrote, the more I was like, you know what?

00:04:08.240 He's right.

00:04:09.400 He's he's right.

00:04:11.180 Can you just encapsulate what the difference was there and why you felt so strongly about how the right needs to be fighting these cultural battles?

00:04:18.680 I guess the main difference is whether or not your commitment as a political movement is to mere procedure, you know, rights, norms and so on and so forth, or whether you have a substantive vision of what society should look like and whether you recognize that whether you like it or not, the other side has a substantive vision that they plan to enshrine.

00:04:46.060 It's a very destructive one, as we've seen with things like critical race theory or the aggressions of gender ideology, where we're asked to affirm things that we just know are not true, not only going against the teachings of the Bible, but also the teachings of genetics and what we know about the immutability of sex and so on.

00:05:08.840 They're intent on enshrining that vision in the public square.

00:05:13.700 And that will always happen.

00:05:14.800 Some orthodoxy or other will always dominate our public square.

00:05:19.100 So the question is, is the right prepared also to, not just the right even, I want to say, but sane Americans are prepared to defend certain truths in the public square and stand for them.

00:05:35.480 And so I'm not just saying, well, I want to say, well, I want to have my view and you have yours, because that just doesn't work.

00:05:41.780 It has never worked in history.

00:05:43.080 Always there's some orthodoxy that reigns.

00:05:45.140 And the one we face is particularly not only out of tune with reality, but incredibly vicious and, you know, kind of quasi totalitarian.

00:05:55.680 and so it needs you have to meet their quote-unquote creed with your own creed which you

00:06:02.920 know i argue is that kind of like our judeo-christian heritage the classical heritage the greco-roman

00:06:09.240 teachings of of of philosophy that that's what we have and um and by the way you know in doing so

00:06:17.520 we don't do away with rights or procedures those are important but our approach to the things that

00:06:23.100 david french cares about has to be ordered to some higher purpose or some vision of what what do we

00:06:30.580 want as a conservative movement for american society which what's important to us family faith

00:06:37.100 um what do we want our communities to look like and to stand for those and not just say well

00:06:44.020 we'll just agree to disagree i mean that's just that's just not working is the battle still on

00:06:49.460 or has the other side won oh i there's i mean there's there's no definitive victory in all of

00:06:55.820 these things i would say that um we have to begin from the point of view um that that our worldview

00:07:02.780 and when i say our i mean again i hesitate to use conservative because it doesn't quite capture

00:07:08.360 what i'm getting at but um the side of sanity has been swept out of nearly all the major institutions

00:07:17.240 of american life um this has become especially clear over the past few years where a lot of

00:07:23.020 again like national review type conservatives became became complacent because they thought well at least

00:07:28.360 we have businesses on our side and that's economic reality and so that that won't go crazy woke

00:07:34.320 um when in fact we see that now corporate america is one of the major drivers it's the tip of the

00:07:40.900 sphere of the bulkification of american society um and so we used to think of it oh that's just the

00:07:48.500 crazy stuff in academe it's among a fringe of professors no it's it's swept far beyond that and um so

00:07:56.900 i think that recognition that uh we don't have anyone on our side except i would hope the good sense of

00:08:03.900 the majority of american people who who don't want critical race theory that doesn't mean that they're

00:08:08.900 racist they just don't want this perverse ideology uh masquerading as anti-racism to be uh you know

00:08:16.420 imposed on their children they don't want um the insanity of having their daughters uh compete in

00:08:22.700 sports against biological males and so on and so forth we have to recognize that except for the good 0.99

00:08:28.560 sense of the american people we don't have any institutional power and that's kind of liberating

00:08:32.800 in some ways then you think okay well here we are but at least that means you're not laboring under

00:08:37.660 any illusion that um the right has any kind of cultural purchase anymore we really don't that's

00:08:43.500 exactly right it's i've said this many times but it's it's just better to know what reality is right

00:08:48.400 the reality yesterday is the same as it is today but perhaps you've received new information about

00:08:53.260 where people really stand we know the media has been unmasked in a way that was really important

00:08:57.860 corporate america to sports and so on i don't think even just four years ago

00:09:03.340 they were understood in that way and that's one great gift of the trump administration you know the

00:09:09.100 four years under trump was yes he was a destroyer of many things that needed to be destroyed like

00:09:15.840 like the mask that was on the media on a place like cnn for example that's just i mean you can go so

00:09:21.520 much bigger it's so much bigger than cable news now and and so that's good we know where we stand and

00:09:26.780 it's not just conservatives you know i talk to you're you're in new york like i am i talk to my

00:09:31.060 liberal friends all the time friends who i have who on their texts will describe themselves to me

00:09:36.080 with a little fire emoji liberal right like that's how they describe themselves who are on the side of

00:09:43.140 you and of me when it comes to these issues because they also want to fight back against the insanity

00:09:49.020 they don't want drag queen story hour they don't want bullying of trans people they want kindness and

00:09:55.500 equal rights and understanding but they do not want a drag queen whatever showing up at their 1.00

00:10:02.400 kindergarten's you know day of learning his colors and prancing around in a tutu if you've seen footage

00:10:10.560 from drag queen story hour and i really i don't want to be forever to to the end of my days be

00:10:14.880 associated with my opposition to drag queen story hour but it's it's typically like latex you know

00:10:21.540 high heels you know it's not it's not tutus you know it's this bizarre kind of fetishistic uh

00:10:28.060 vision which you know i i should say i live in midtown manhattan and i literally live right above

00:10:33.100 a uh a drag bar which like you know i do and it just it's midtown east and and it's a place where

00:10:41.280 people like typically go for their bridal uh kind of uh all right you know parties or whatever and and i

00:10:47.760 don't mind it at all because i i recognize that's a place it's always kind of been part of new york

00:10:52.620 culture it doesn't have this element of but let's normative you know make this normative for children

00:10:58.860 and and encourage this as a world view or a way of being in the world it's you know it's a subculture

00:11:04.360 in a way it has all its charm in being a subculture it becomes so true you know oppressive when it's

00:11:11.380 you know there's this attempt to make it uh impose it on kids which is just obviously perverse

00:11:16.960 no you're so right there was i used to go to this um again i is the term transvestite yes it's just

00:11:23.040 drag queen anyway it's okay it's okay i mean men who dress up they're often straight men who just

00:11:28.720 like to dress up as women it's not quite the same exactly yeah it's not to be confused with

00:11:33.340 transgender which is you know you actually identify as a different gender but like rupaul that's not

00:11:37.720 rupaul rupaul is a man who likes to dress up as a woman um but they had a like a drag bar there that

00:11:44.120 was so fun we used to go to it all the time and you'd be you'd leave very confused i mean it was

00:11:48.880 all the men who would go would be very confused these were amazingly attractive you know people

00:11:53.840 who appeared as women but weren't and you knew that at some level and yet your eyes belied what

00:11:58.900 your brain knew um anyway fine for adults and fun and like you say subcultury and it's fun to sort of

00:12:05.520 stick a toe into that world even as you know mainstream people but yeah i don't want it in front of my

00:12:10.940 six-year-old and and i do think you tell me what you think but i do think more and more

00:12:15.160 this year so even when i launched the podcast it was like the last week of september and now here we

00:12:21.260 are in june i've seen a massive shift in people getting ready to push back against these cultural

00:12:26.820 insanities i i see i mean especially again not to make it this a new york podcast but like you i know

00:12:34.040 lots of liberal parents who are believe it or not friends with notorious reactionary sarah pamari and

00:12:39.960 um um they come they come up to me and say you know i'm i'm really worried about the race stuff

00:12:46.240 at my kids private school and they're paying you know 50 60 000 a year for these ivy feeder schools 0.61

00:12:52.820 like beer rarely and dalton and they have to attend for example these zoom meetings where the parents and

00:12:59.960 their children have to unpack their biases and privileges as as as white people or as asians

00:13:06.440 um because the asians are often lumped in and they have to keep their cameras on so to show that

00:13:13.080 they're kind of really plugged in and um you know really at least you're not allowed to turn the camera

00:13:19.040 off no you're not allowed at least as some of this couple we know who they have older children and

00:13:24.860 their older children attend a couple of these different schools they tell me that they have to

00:13:29.680 keep your zoom on to show that you're into the conversation but at any rate they they come up to

00:13:35.200 me and privately kind of whisper that um you know i don't i don't like this why i want my kid to learn

00:13:43.360 i don't want my kid to just endlessly solipsistically meditate on his or her own you know identity and

00:13:50.140 sexuality and race and so forth i want him to like learn about the napoleonic wars and poetry and

00:13:55.360 homer or whatever and so that's good i mean i just worry that a lot of elite parents though will just

00:14:02.160 they'll say that privately to me the one kind of out conservative that they know but um at the end

00:14:10.160 of the day they want their kid to go to columbia or whatever so they'll bite the bullet and so we

00:14:15.180 had a piece in the new york post and and i was like this is another good point talking about how your

00:14:21.020 liberal friends pour out their anguish to you on fears of these woke radicals and that you're

00:14:24.820 wearying of the job because they're kind of part of the problem as much as we appreciate them being

00:14:32.180 on the side of sanity if it's just secret it does us no good that that you wrote they are prepared to

00:14:39.340 tolerate woke rule if it means passing on their elite status to their progeny and i do think one of

00:14:46.600 the reasons why you know we pulled our kids from these schools pretty quickly once i realized what

00:14:51.920 was going on was i i do not have any elite academic status that i need to pass on and i don't care if

00:15:01.480 they go to harvard at all in fact i'm really starting to think that's the last place i want

00:15:05.040 them to go i don't i have no idea where they should go but someplace that won't indoctrinate them is my

00:15:09.240 hope or you know at least someplace where the push isn't so strong it's going to overcome the k 1.00

00:15:15.520 through 12 years that my husband and i have spent trying to counter program against that but you're

00:15:20.160 right most people here in new york they have beautiful academic pedigrees and not just in

00:15:24.000 new york and all the big cities and so yeah they if they don't like it they go along with it and some

00:15:29.220 of them like it and some of them like my husband just had lunch with a friend who was like

00:15:33.340 it'll pass yeah it's not that big a thing and and you know doug and i are like no no no it's a big

00:15:38.360 thing yeah yeah i mean these these types of movements um you know look at any kind of uh

00:15:45.080 historical perspective uh they don't um they don't pass or they pass after having left in their

00:15:53.740 wake just the massive ruin right ruination and despair right exactly so one good thing and it

00:16:01.700 always comes out of you know places where you have more salt to the earth people that i saw over the

00:16:07.960 weekend was this woman out of carmel new york i don't know if you saw this now please forgive me

00:16:13.240 because we caught like a three minute clip of this woman because i'm in love with her and i'm in love 0.97

00:16:17.560 with this woman and she here's the scene okay she showed up at her school board meeting and this woman 1.00

00:16:26.240 had a few words to share with the school board which was pushing an agenda that was totally anti-cop

00:16:32.480 pro blm pro socialism and communism according to her she kept saying she had proof they kept trying

00:16:40.400 to shut her up she wouldn't shut up she actually said i'm i'm gonna be your worst nightmare and i just 0.83

00:16:46.960 this ladies and gentlemen this is how it's done all right listen to her my message to this district

00:16:53.760 and the members of the board of ed stop indoctrinating our children stop teaching our

00:17:01.520 children to hate the police stop teaching our children that if they don't agree with the lgbt

00:17:07.760 community that they're homophobic you have no idea each child's life why am i not allowed when they

00:17:16.960 purposely themselves expose themselves on social media talking about calling for the death of a

00:17:25.120 former president or saying that any child that doesn't believe in black lives matter should be

00:17:30.640 canceled out is this what my tax dollars is paying for you're teaching my children and other children

00:17:38.160 that if they believe in god almighty they're part of a cult why can't we let the public know that

00:17:45.440 you're teaching our children to go out and murder our police officers do you want the proof i have

00:17:50.640 the proof is that what scares you the proof that a parent actually standing up against all of you

00:17:57.920 is that what scares you to call out the names of these people you work for me i don't work for you

00:18:05.680 we are entrusting our children to you we teach our children morals values when they grow up to commit

00:18:13.040 crimes and end up in prison and kill a police officer it's our fault no it's your fault you're

00:18:20.720 emotionally abusing our children and mentally abusing them you're demoralizing them by teaching

00:18:26.480 them communist values this is still america ma'am and as long as i'm standing here on this good ground

00:18:33.040 earth of god i will fight and i'm not this is not the last of me you will see

00:18:37.680 i'm retired i have nothing else better to do we can do it peacefully or we can take it to the

00:18:46.000 highest courts because you know and i know i'm not the only parent fighting is all across america right

00:18:51.360 now schools are trying to poison our children's minds do you know who makes up the majority of this

00:18:57.760 district children from police officers families blues back the blue children do you know what these

00:19:05.360 children feel like when they come home have you spoken to them no you're silencing them this whole

00:19:10.800 cancel culture you're silencing the children where are their rights they have no rights because if they

00:19:18.240 don't believe in the indoctrination the demonic twisted sneaky vile acts and and and and education if

00:19:28.960 you call it that that you're teaching our children they don't agree with that they're either homophobic

00:19:34.560 they're part of a cult they they they're racist what what's what's racist who defines racist why 0.94

00:19:40.640 because i'm do you know what race i am do you you don't you don't even have a an idea i could be black

00:19:48.800 i could be white i could be asian you don't know who are you to determine that who is anyone to

00:19:54.400 determine that you know what children in the school system children like other children they don't look at

00:20:00.160 color black and chill black and white children hispanic children you know why they get along

00:20:04.560 because they don't look at each other's color so you're the racist not them not us you're judging and

00:20:10.400 dividing you're causing segregation i have a problem when teachers are passing out flyers recruiting

00:20:17.520 children to go to to the courthouse to protest black lives matters when you have people sitting with with 1.00

00:20:23.760 with signs that says all cops are bastards really all cops are bastards no i think you people are 1.00

00:20:31.040 the chair you're sitting on we pay for the lights that are on we pay for we pay for everything you 1.00

00:20:36.800 want to silence me because i spoke the truth i spoke the truth this indoctrination and hatred towards our

00:20:42.960 police officers the systematic racism and cancel culture is going to end you came to the wrong

00:20:47.920 school district to do this okay yes her name is tatiana ibrahim um carmel new york is just north

00:20:56.720 of new york city it's in putnam county which is more blue collar more working class and as she says

00:21:02.320 a lot of cops as as the parent in those families there and she stood up for reason there was a little 1.00

00:21:08.400 clip of it in there sorry but there was the one moment where the she's like i pay your salary and 1.00

00:21:13.920 somebody on the board was like actually this is a volunteer position we don't get paid she goes

00:21:17.600 you heard who's paying for that chair who do you think's paying for the electricity who's paying for

00:21:22.160 this room i'm in love with her that's how it's done you don't have to we pulled our kids you don't

00:21:27.840 have to you can you can go to the board of edge of ed meeting and unleash like tatiana and stand up

00:21:36.400 against this indoctrination like she did that was so rousing um megan and as you played that i was

00:21:44.720 kind of pumping my fist um in my own room alone um it was terrific and you know it just

00:21:52.800 it goes to show where where the future lies if there's a political movement that wants to be

00:21:59.680 um successful i think where it lies is a combination it's some some basically something

00:22:06.560 that speaks to tatiana what is what does someone like tatiana want she wants she wants her kids to 1.00

00:22:13.520 attend school and and be and be uh not be indoctrinated but to be taught actual knowledge

00:22:19.920 that may be useful to him or her uh you know in in life they they want law and order because we know

00:22:27.120 what happens when law and order break down we saw the riots over the summer um and the fact that so many

00:22:33.520 uh politicians cheered it uh and they want a kind of decent economic order that doesn't mean they want

00:22:39.120 socialism that doesn't mean they want ultra capitalism but a decent economic the way that

00:22:43.520 president trump and however inchoately spoke to these kind of economic anxieties where you know taken

00:22:50.880 all together this combination of cultural wokeism and and an economy that works really really well for

00:22:58.320 elites um and and leaves a lot of people in the working middle behind that's not worked out well and

00:23:05.040 so if any movement of of whether it's a democrat or a republican although increasingly i think it's

00:23:10.640 likely to come from from uh on the republican side of things that can just address that will capture the

00:23:17.360 middle what's very insidious about our kind of blob of corporate academic and media power that rules us

00:23:25.600 is they they present really really extreme positions really really kind of positions that are

00:23:35.200 unpalatable to the vast vast majority of people of all races like defunding the police uh like teaching

00:23:42.080 gender ideology to little kids uh like uh you know kind of pursuing climate change policies that make gas really

00:23:49.920 expensive and can drive up consumer prices and so forth but they present it all as the mainstream

00:23:55.760 and then the the the fringe becomes the far right or the far left whoever doesn't quite fit into that

00:24:01.360 even though it's what where the majority of americans are on these issues so if you could just capture

00:24:06.400 that and say no no no you're the extremist mr board member education board member in carmel new york

00:24:12.240 you're the extremist uh you know whoever blue check type who says that there's you know 157 genders that's

00:24:19.520 insane um you can easily win so we just need politicians to now people who are willing to use

00:24:26.720 power responsibly to give a voice to tatiana's and then hopefully people like her actually going in to

00:24:32.320 to take seats on school boards to take seats on yes you know this local district kind of governing bodies

00:24:39.120 and so forth that's part of the answer is grassroots get on the boards you can't just yell at the boards

00:24:44.240 you got to get on the boards we have to run the boards we have to make sure that this is stopped

00:24:48.560 at you know when it's a seedling as opposed to when it's already spread in in the schools and i will

00:24:54.960 say i mean i will confess to you um my brother is a police officer he's a lieutenant and i wrote letters

00:25:00.960 to all of my schools when this whole thing started breaking saying just so you know my children have

00:25:06.640 an uncle who is a decorated police officer and i do not want him or his brethren to be demonized in

00:25:14.640 any classroom in which my child sits you owe a responsibility you have a responsibility you

00:25:19.600 owe a duty to my child to make sure that you are not condemning wide swaths of people based on the

00:25:25.600 actions of this one man who were covering derek chauvin and so you do have to get involved i i

00:25:30.960 don't like giving a hard time to the head of school or to the teachers i like them you know in my schools

00:25:35.600 i i care about them but it's it's about more than just your personal relationships it's it's it's about

00:25:41.520 principle um but to your point about they're the extremists i've been thinking about amy chua you know

00:25:47.920 her tiger mom yale law school professor totally beloved on yale uh on the campus the students are

00:25:54.480 lining up to get into her class every year and she's they've been coming after her this year of

00:25:59.440 course and they're pretending it's because she had students at her house and they had drinks they

00:26:06.400 basically slapped her husband with some bs it was sort of a me too situation but it wasn't he didn't do

00:26:11.920 anything it was basically he complimented some girl in her outfit and suddenly they treated him like

00:26:15.920 he was harvey weinstein we've lost our minds anyway as a result i guess they agreed not to have

00:26:21.600 students to the house drinking the school was like oh you did she said actually no i had young

00:26:28.080 asian women over who were scared about the trend of violence against young asian uh people the point 0.96

00:26:34.640 is yale's coming for her and the real reason is she supported brett kavanaugh and i don't i know amy

00:26:41.120 i don't know whether she's a democrat or republic i have no idea but she knew brett kavanaugh and she

00:26:45.520 respected his legal work and she did not see the case that was being made against him she she had a lot

00:26:50.320 of experience with sending clerks to him who had very positive experiences blah blah she's never

00:26:55.120 been forgiven for that okay so that's yale the same yale okay now it's not the law school but over at 0.83

00:27:03.040 the med school uh the yale school of medicine's child study center child study center invited a lunatic

00:27:11.680 two months ago not even this is april 2021 uh to speak to the young doctors there and the woman's

00:27:20.400 name as it turns out the woman who spoke is a doctor she's a psychiatrist dr aruna kilanani she previously

00:27:27.600 taught at cornell columbia and nyu yet another reason not to send your kids there um and and this doctor

00:27:35.520 got up in front of her audience for almost an hour and gave a lecture entitled the psychopathic problem

00:27:44.960 of the white mind we know about this because katie herzog again writing for barry weiss's substack

00:27:50.000 which has turned out to be a treasure trove uh was sent a copy of the audio recording and listen to 0.86

00:27:55.360 what so amy chua beloved brilliant she's a problem but this lunatic can get up in front of the young 1.00

00:28:02.480 doctors of america the future doctors and say as follows listen this is the cost of talking to 0.99

00:28:07.760 white people at all the cost of your own life as they suck these rye there are no good apples 1.00

00:28:12.800 okay white people make my blood boil i had fantasies of unloading a revolver into the head 1.00

00:28:18.880 of any white person that got in my way gearing their body and wiping my bloody hands as it walked 0.99

00:28:25.600 away relatively difficult with a bouncing mindset like i did the world of walking favor we keep 0.69

00:28:32.240 forgetting that directly talking about race is a waste of our breath we are asking a demented

00:28:38.160 violent predator who thinks that they're a saint or a superhero to accept responsibility 0.97

00:28:44.080 it ain't gonna happen we need to remember that directly talking about race to white people is 0.98

00:28:49.200 useless because we're at the wrong level of conversation addressing racism of things that white 0.99

00:28:55.520 people can see and process what we are talking about they can't that's why they sound demented 0.99

00:29:01.680 they don't even know they have a mask on white people think it's their actual face

00:29:06.640 we need to get to know them out okay so just because that was a little garbled just at the

00:29:11.360 highlights were the cost of talking to white people is your own life there are no good apples 0.99

00:29:16.000 white people make my blood boil fantasies of unloading a revolver into the head of any white 1.00

00:29:20.000 person that got in my way burying their body wiping my bloody hands as i walked away relatively 1.00

00:29:23.920 guiltless with a bounce in my step like i did the world an effing favor white people are out of 0.98

00:29:28.160 their minds they've been for a long time talking about races is a waste of time we're asking a 0.99

00:29:32.960 demented violent predator who thinks they're a saint or a superhero to accept responsibility 0.70

00:29:39.680 because it came out yale ultimately had to apologize and say oh it's not not really consistent

00:29:44.240 with our values but this is where we are that this person was allowed to come on campus and say all of

00:29:52.880 this and had it not been leaked um you know a couple of people complained i don't know i think we'd

00:29:58.320 probably get a lot more like her and she's still in private practice therapizing people right now with 1.00

00:30:02.160 those messages i'd shudder to think uh what her patients for example if they have cocky she has 1.00

00:30:08.160 caucasian patients right you might want to pat her down before your therapy session look i i'm trying 0.96

00:30:13.440 to understand what this ideology where it's coming from and the best account that i've been able to

00:30:20.960 muster and i think a few others have have wised up to this as well is it's it's it's an ideology to

00:30:29.360 that tries to account for the fact that in this country kind of our quote-unquote meritocratic elites

00:30:36.320 have done really well as i understand this woman is an immigrant or a child of immigrants

00:30:40.720 and so obviously and now you know within you know a short span of immigrating either her or her parents

00:30:46.720 immigrating um you know she's in the has she's one entree into the highest circles of her her

00:30:53.760 profession and that's it you know and and and and so people like her and people in her class have

00:31:00.960 done very well for themselves um but they've sort of they have to kind of convince themselves that

00:31:07.920 it's not just um that it's just their pure ability to do this and there is their own kind of ability

00:31:16.240 to test take tests very well and get to the places that they have and they don't owe anything to a

00:31:21.280 larger society that made it possible for them to rise and maybe there are others who haven't done well

00:31:26.160 out of our current economic and political arrangements that you know our our nation is

00:31:30.320 very good at kind of tapping elites and siphoning them off into coastal areas and they cluster together

00:31:37.440 and they're very diverse there's lots of people who don't get to participate in that so how do you

00:31:41.840 deal with that including the fact that these people feel left behind um do you kind of make create

00:31:47.920 a more economically just society do you do you help them out do you whatever or you can kind of frame

00:31:53.760 all of them the great middle of this country as this horde of horrible racists and and and and

00:31:59.760 deplorables and so forth and if you frame them that way then you have as an elite you have no

00:32:04.320 responsibility to to everyone else normally in in kind of great tradition of the west there was always

00:32:13.280 elites and there will always be elites that's that's fine it just because human beings have different

00:32:18.400 abilities but the idea of being an elite was especially even in this country it's kind of

00:32:23.600 protestant establishment um was that you were you became an elite and you then had a responsibility

00:32:29.680 to everyone else you you the whole point of you being an elite was for you to serve others but we

00:32:35.680 now have an elite that kind of feels completely disconnected from the rest of society believes

00:32:40.800 itself to be just the pure product of meritocracy and can't explain its own rise so it has to frame 0.96

00:32:47.520 everyone else's i don't have any responsibility to them because they're horrible racists and and they 0.99

00:32:52.560 should just shut up or in in the case of this doctor they should literally be shot dead um and so 0.99

00:33:00.400 that's the best explanation i can come up with for this kind of woke ideology and i have again i have 0.99

00:33:05.280 it in my social circle of like people you know uh people who are very very wealthy they're immigrants

00:33:11.520 like let's say from korea or wherever and they've embraced black lives matter and defund the police

00:33:16.720 of course they would they would they have like these apartments they live in parts of the country

00:33:21.520 whether it's in la or new york where they would have private security if law and order broke down

00:33:26.400 they have every kind of private defense it's working class people including working class people of 0.51

00:33:30.960 color who pay for their preferred policies like defunding the police but i just think it's it's a way to

00:33:36.560 explain their own elite status and why they don't care about most uh most of the country

00:33:40.320 mm-hmm and they've got buy-in from big tech this has been something you've been jumping up and down

00:33:46.720 about because you were you were part of the hunter biden reporting and that story at the post that was

00:33:53.200 suppressed that we were told couldn't air facebook no it can't it can't air twitter no it can't be

00:33:59.600 circulated at all this is the same facebook that banned any discussion of whether covet originated in a

00:34:05.440 wuhan lab which it very much i mean honestly like how can you reach any other conclusion now

00:34:10.880 um they told you guys you couldn't report on hunter they told all of us we couldn't speak of the wuhan

00:34:16.800 lab leak theory and they're not learning any lessons that there's no introspection there there's no

00:34:22.560 apologies yeah i mean um we we were bit by both of those stories we were censored with our hunter biding

00:34:29.680 reporting with hunter biden reporting which remains undisputed neither hunter nor his father

00:34:35.200 actually disputes the authenticity of the females um you know the thrust of our reporting

00:34:41.040 remains unchallenged that's all they can say is this russian disinformation and so forth it could

00:34:45.920 be remember hunter said to cbs it could be could be russian injury could could be you don't know you

00:34:51.680 don't know if you left the laptop there you don't know if you made a laptop or made those videos and

00:34:55.600 did all those drugs and with the hookers and all those do you know whether those are yours because 0.97

00:34:59.440 there's you know thousands of them so one might look familiar yes so and and you had 50 intelligence

00:35:07.280 officials and again this is so discrediting to the so-called intelligence community they released

00:35:12.320 the letter at the height of this saying this has all this bears all the hallmarks of russian

00:35:16.800 disinformation um again with zero evidence um so yeah we were suppressed on that count and we had a

00:35:23.760 column an opinion column by steve mosher who's a great china scholar in february 2020 so kind of at

00:35:29.600 the beginning of the crisis saying look it's possible he didn't say definitively but he said

00:35:34.400 it's possible that this was a lab leak and his reasoning was quite simple and in retrospect it seems so

00:35:40.080 obvious he said is it crazy that the epicenter of the virus happens to be also where this lab is

00:35:46.800 located where it's the only lab and virus capable of handling coronaviruses uh you know but but facebook

00:35:53.120 censored that as well and so you know and again keep in mind we're talking about the new york post

00:35:58.240 it's america's oldest continuously published daily newspaper it was founded by one of the founding

00:36:02.960 fathers alexander hamilton so you know these these tech firms have become a kind of the private

00:36:09.840 enforcement arm of again of this elite that doesn't want to hear contrary theories because if you talk

00:36:16.160 about what happened with china there it calls into question their own comfortable relationship with

00:36:20.960 china over decades they made possible china's rise they our kind of bipartisan establishment elite

00:36:28.800 opened the doors to china's rise so the wuhan lab leak theory is uncomfortable because it reminds them 1.00

00:36:34.000 that china is a very irresponsible actor um so how do they deal with that well they don't they just 1.00

00:36:39.600 censor views that might um come into conflict and i think we have to be very careful now and think

00:36:45.840 about the possibility that there's such a thing as as private tyranny americans are very good and

00:36:52.080 alert to the possibility of public tyranny meaning government doing this or that but we're a little

00:36:57.280 bit less equipped for dealing with the prospect of large agglomerations of private power used in this

00:37:04.400 way um kind of monopolistically oligopolistic oligopolistic oligopolistically to to um make our freedoms kind of

00:37:14.720 hollow render our true freedoms hollow well it kind of goes back to what you were talking about before which

00:37:20.000 is yes process is important do process is really important that too was written in there by one of those

00:37:26.800 founders you mentioned um but toward what end it we have to keep asking that question i mean i would

00:37:34.480 say i i i'm just thinking about myself sometimes i focus too much on process as a lawyer but i'm also

00:37:41.520 a catholic you know which sort of gets me to the other end and i know you're you're i would say pretty

00:37:46.240 devout because you you came to it as a convert right the converts are always the most devout like my nana

00:37:51.200 um but that answers i mean religion for people even if you're not particularly religious like me i

00:37:58.080 mean i consider myself a catholic and i was raised in the catholic church and still believe in its

00:38:01.520 tenets um but i wouldn't call myself devout but anyway that that helps you answer the other questions

00:38:07.840 of okay once we get the process set what are we shooting for it can't just be let the ships fall where

00:38:13.440 they may you you do actually need to have a a dog in the hunt and this is i think why you wrote your

00:38:20.000 book i mean i think this is sort of one of the the goals right so the book is called the unbroken

00:38:26.080 thread discovering the wisdom of tradition in an age of chaos you're a very deep thinker um i really

00:38:33.840 appreciated how deep you went because it brought me there too but that was one of your points was that

00:38:40.480 faith in god has been gradually displaced in our country by faith in man and materialism and process

00:38:47.280 while important doesn't doesn't get us to the end of the questions we need to be asking ourselves

00:38:54.160 yeah so i wrote this book for my son max he's um he's four years old now he was two when i started

00:38:59.360 writing it and so i read i started writing it pre-corona and in some ways it became a prescient

00:39:05.040 book of the moment as through circumstances beyond the book itself namely the pandemic but you know my my

00:39:11.520 fear for my son is as much as i'm an i'm an immigrant and i'm a grateful immigrant i'm worried

00:39:16.320 about the kind of man that our western civilization will chisel out of my max and i don't think again i

00:39:23.040 don't mean that he'll be become i don't know an opioid addict or he'll be you know utterly kind of

00:39:28.560 dissolute although god forbid that's a possibility too and one should be alert to it but that he'll just be

00:39:33.280 one of our kind of purposeless elites with no sense of moral purpose in his life um whereas he's named

00:39:40.720 after this great catholic saint maximilian kolbe who became um canonized who was canonized as a saint

00:39:48.640 because he famously laid down his life for a stranger at auschwitz someone else had been condemned

00:39:54.000 to execution that man cried out oh but my wife and children and saint maximilian said well i'll step in

00:40:00.080 to his place i'll take his uh punishment and so that's that's how he was murdered by the nazis

00:40:06.000 and so i'm trying to tether my max to that max and that how did that max's um uh great act of

00:40:12.800 sacrifice come about it was because of this deeper spiritual uh formation this traditional formation that

00:40:20.560 said that freedom isn't just you know process or isn't just having maximum choice or keeping your

00:40:27.600 options open really freedom is freedom to do what you ought to do and um if it's freedom to do what

00:40:34.160 you ought to do you can do it even under the kind of most extreme conditions which again i hope never

00:40:38.720 come about for my own son but even you can you can be free even in a nazi death camp if you rest on this

00:40:45.200 more solid ground of of tradition and faith and so that's that's that was my impetus for writing the

00:40:51.440 book and i frame it around unasked questions questions that our age assumes have been answered

00:40:57.280 because we have science because we have technology questions like is god reasonable or how should you

00:41:02.160 serve your parents when in fact these questions are still pertinent to full and happy life and

00:41:06.960 because i'm not a philosopher i'm not a theologian i'm just a journalist and storyteller

00:41:12.000 i do it through the stories of great thinkers so i think i hope my son and potentially the reader

00:41:17.440 will come to this and they'll just encounter not being hit over the head heavily with philosophy

00:41:23.440 but ideas blended in with the lives of great thinkers like saint augustine or thomas of linus

00:41:28.480 and some surprising ones like the feminist andrew dorkin or rabbi abraham joshua heschel

00:41:33.600 well how about the part and um the question seven how must you serve your parents you just reference it

00:41:39.680 answered by confucius which is i mean congrats on getting that interview because that's big

00:41:43.200 uh and you say this quoting his philosophy here that um the parent-child relationship is the

00:41:51.280 foundation of all relationships we must put our parents needs above all else and do so with love

00:41:55.280 and joy a child should spend three years mourning a parent's death and should not enjoy food music

00:42:00.800 sex for that period now i mean i love my parents my love i did lose my dad but i certainly wouldn't

00:42:07.680 don't want to lose my mom anytime soon but i have a feeling she would not want me to mourn her in that

00:42:11.840 particular way right yeah i mean so and and i i don't suggest that we should pick up literally

00:42:17.840 confucian filiality norms um because it's for a completely different uh civilization we're talking

00:42:24.480 about 2500 years ago in in ancient china um but there is something in the spirit of of confucian

00:42:31.680 filiality which i think can still be useful and and and illuminating for us today and that's you know why

00:42:39.280 confucius asked why do you owe these things to your parents why are you expected under chinese

00:42:45.280 ritual to refrain from basically being happy for three years after your parents dead die and after

00:42:51.920 your parents die and the reason is why is it three years it's because during the first three years of

00:42:57.760 your life you were incredibly helpless and for most of us i mean some people are blessed some people are

00:43:04.880 cursed with bad parents and we have to acknowledge that but for most of us during those three years

00:43:10.000 it was our parents who just completely took care of us you didn't have to ask your mom to feed you

00:43:15.200 you didn't have to ask your dad to take you to the doctor when you were sick and in taking care of you

00:43:20.160 care of you that way they um kind of nurtured your moral imagination so that when you grow up

00:43:25.840 you begin to extend your sense of duty or loyalty to an ever larger share of people your community your

00:43:32.320 larger family and so forth um and it makes you feel they made you humane in that way by taking care

00:43:37.680 of you so therefore when they die it should be a you know it should be an event for you because

00:43:44.080 and that hence the three years you're recalling your own first three years of life when you were

00:43:49.200 completely helpless now again as i i go on in the chapter and make it clear that um confucian filiality

00:43:55.440 norms are extreme and um by our standards and most modern chinese you know although they have some 1.00

00:44:03.520 elements of it in their own daily life they're no longer practice you know the three years of

00:44:07.440 mourning but um that it's useful to have some sense of the of this mysterious relationship between

00:44:14.080 parents and child you know the way you look like megan or the way i look like the shape of our nose the

00:44:18.960 shape of our face our hair is literally wouldn't be possible but for the union of these two people

00:44:24.400 so we owe them something yeah i do think we forget that too much too much of the familial relationship

00:44:30.960 in the west forgets that and it's something to be admired about uh the the chinese parent-child

00:44:36.720 relationship the more eastern parent um child relationship just the and immigrants too a lot of

00:44:43.520 immigrants who just willingly take care of their parents and would never offload the responsibilities 0.98

00:44:48.560 we have a a filiality norm in the west it comes from the ten commandments uh so the mosaic law does

00:44:55.440 say honor your mother and father and notably it doesn't say only if they you know parentheses only

00:45:02.080 if they met your expectations as a parent just like the confucian filiality norm uh it neither has a kind

00:45:09.680 of uh proviso for getting out if you're if your parents were lousy and that's very difficult for

00:45:15.120 modern minds to wrap their head around because we're used to everything being transactional

00:45:19.040 if you know if so and so took care of me then i'll take care of them in later life if so and so was good

00:45:23.920 to me then i'll be good to them but filiality norms both in the the the judeo-christian version

00:45:30.320 and the confucian version are kind of striking in that they say no you got to honor your mother and father

00:45:36.320 well i also appreciated your chapter on death what's good about death i realize this this is a

00:45:44.800 deeper discussion for you know a longer uh other time but uh you hit on something that i've believed

00:45:51.600 and i've lived my own life by and it's what's allowed me to take big risks and and achieve relative

00:45:57.440 happiness as a human and that is that that death gives life a purpose that that life has meaning

00:46:05.840 and value because there's an ending and we know there's an ending right it's like a story um in the

00:46:13.680 end of the figure in the chapter is seneca and he says um as with a good story what matters is that if

00:46:21.120 it has to have a beginning middle and an end whereas if we achieve this dream of a deathless world

00:46:27.200 which our scientists want to and in some ways we saw in the covet crisis um the attempt to defer

00:46:34.480 death as long as possible um in doing so we we lose a lot else in the sense that um you know heroism

00:46:44.720 for example the heroism that we saw of of uh first responders at at the height of the pandemic

00:46:50.880 or the heroism of firefighters and policemen so forth those things only make sense in relation

00:46:56.080 to the possibility of death and so if if there's no end point life kind of meanders and the more you

00:47:03.280 try to hang on to the sort of lifeline once it's reached its end point the more you kind of degrade

00:47:08.240 yourself so seneca famously taught that you should begin each day thinking that you might die and then

00:47:15.440 you don't live actually fearfully like you said megan you actually that gives you courage because 0.98

00:47:19.280 you're like okay well this could be the end today um that doesn't mean you take risks like a jackass 0.56

00:47:25.840 but you can go through life without this kind of constant anxiety and without a kind of life

00:47:31.520 destroying anxiety about death which we definitely saw with covet over restrictions like what we're

00:47:36.000 doing to children now is criminal and it's born of a of an irrational completely irrational now

00:47:42.640 proven unscientific fear of death right it cannot be prevented it cannot be avoided what

00:47:48.800 what can be avoided is living poorly making mundane life choices that lead to a dull existence and

00:47:57.680 that's just that's the deal that's that was the deal when we came into this world we have to accept

00:48:02.640 it there's no renegotiating that deal there's there's only making the best of it and understanding

00:48:08.960 there's a chance to to make different choices to help yourself along just knowing that i mean

00:48:14.480 i've i've said many times if there was one good thing about losing my parent at an early age

00:48:21.120 it was that realization when you know it on a gut level as opposed to just an intellectual level how

00:48:26.480 short life is how fleeting how quickly it can be gone it does lead you to make different and i would say

00:48:32.960 better choices and so while the instinct usually is to push thoughts of death out of one's mind as it may

00:48:38.400 not be entirely pleasant you shouldn't you should spend some time thinking about it realizing it's

00:48:44.000 coming we don't know when and i don't just put challenging yourself to live better absolutely

00:48:51.600 well sarab i'm excited for you taking on these battles whether it's hunter biden covid or the crazy

00:48:58.240 wokesters who are trying to change not just our city but our country big fan and i wish you all the

00:49:03.840 best with i know the book is already kicking butt but i i hope this helps even more and that

00:49:08.320 everybody should go out and buy a copy again the unbroken thread discovering the wisdom of tradition

00:49:14.160 in an age of chaos all the best to you thank you megan really appreciate it up next our pals

00:49:21.200 crystal and saga are back on why they broke away from their very successful show on the hill.com

00:49:27.520 their show rising was doing great but they wanted to be independent and it's a risk right so it's

00:49:36.080 happening how's it going how's it going to differ from what they were doing before and why did they

00:49:40.400 think it was so important that's next

00:49:45.760 crystal ball and saga and jetty yay congratulations thank you i'm thrilled you've decided to just go

00:49:53.520 independent and do your thing because you're both stars and you know you should be working

00:49:58.080 for yourselves it's the new it's the new medium and why wouldn't you i mean we talk all the time

00:50:03.600 about how much we believe in independent media and of course as you know it's like it's scary to step

00:50:09.360 out from under the the corporate umbrella where you know you've got a certain amount coming in and

00:50:13.840 you got health insurance and all that good fit and all that good stuff but um so far it's gone really

00:50:19.760 well i mean honestly we've been blown away by the response um so we're we're just excited and grateful

00:50:27.360 explain what it is my my understanding saga is that it's going to be on youtube and it's going to be a

00:50:31.920 podcast that's right so we intentionally made it more difficult for ourselves and we said uh for

00:50:38.080 premium subscribers that they get to watch the full show uncut so we email that link to everybody

00:50:44.000 an hour early before it goes live on youtube which is at 12 p.m est and we give the full audio uncut

00:50:50.480 as well so no odd breaks or anything which is in their podcast player that's the awesome company

00:50:55.520 that we partnered with who's powering our premium subscribers and then everything else it's just it's

00:51:00.320 normal um for people who can't afford it or just want to watch for free it's available as clips like

00:51:05.040 it was for rising all on youtube on our breaking points youtube channel same thing on any podcast player

00:51:11.280 and is it like is it a sliding scale are you able to tell me how much it costs oh so we have it at

00:51:17.280 ten dollars a month um that's that's currently just how much it costs or a hundred dollars a year for

00:51:21.360 people who want to sign up and that's that's all they have to do that's cheap that that that works for

00:51:27.120 me i'll do it you've got me thank you so but so talk to me about why because i would say it looked to

00:51:34.400 me like you did have a fair amount of editorial freedom while on the hill it's not exactly like working

00:51:38.640 for fox or ms or cnn but what what more did you want that you couldn't get unless you went independent

00:51:45.440 crystal well and you're right i certainly had way more editorial freedom at the hill than i ever had

00:51:52.400 at msnbc and you know we took a lot of risks there that i think were uncomfortable at times for folks at

00:51:59.040 the hill um but you know there were a couple things i mean number one you know how these large organizations

00:52:05.040 work there are always going to be sort of pressure incentive structures in place that make it more

00:52:11.040 uncomfortable to cover certain topics and so um you know i would be lying if i said that you know i'm not

00:52:18.960 a normal human being who would be influenced by those pressure incentive structures and there was also just an

00:52:24.880 appearance that i really didn't like so i'll give you an example i don't know if you followed or covered

00:52:28.960 this uh stephen donziger who won a multi-billion dollar settlement against chevron in defense of um

00:52:37.520 indigenous people whose land had been polluted and chevron has come aggressively after him he's

00:52:42.880 been under trial under basically bs circumstances in new york and i started seeing tweets that were like

00:52:48.560 why aren't why isn't crystal covering this is it because the hill is taking money from the american 0.52

00:52:54.080 petroleum institute which they do they're in corporate enterprise they get money from them they get money from

00:52:58.320 coke industries they get money from pharma they get all kinds of different sponsorships and money and i

00:53:03.920 hated even the idea that that was influencing our coverage so you know we thought we were in a

00:53:10.800 position to be able to make this work and truly live the values that we espouse and so we stepped down

00:53:16.720 and you know took the plunge so in the podcast will there be ads i have or have are we avoiding ads

00:53:22.640 altogether so right now we're just doing ads for ourselves we're just saying hey guys if you don't

00:53:26.640 want to listen to our annoying voice just come and come and subscribe i think i said that verbatim

00:53:34.080 it's a model it's a model must really like hearing my voice a lot so you should go ahead and try

00:53:39.520 it's funny you know i think about it in myself now because i take ad money to

00:53:43.040 we're not subscription-based we're free and um if a news story were to come up involving one of

00:53:48.400 my advertisers i'd have to be very transparent with the audience that you know this is this is

00:53:52.960 an average somebody who pays me so yeah you know i'm i'm on dicey ground right now that's one of the

00:53:57.600 weirdnesses of being in media but it's not totally just distinct from having been on fox news and you

00:54:03.920 know running gold ads all day if there were bad news in the gold market i suppose i would have

00:54:08.000 had some pause then too or mesothelioma what if i got mesothelioma i think the main thing megan is

00:54:14.560 it's not that uh you can be opposed to advertising in principle it's that if it's your only source of

00:54:21.440 revenue your primary source of revenue then it could introduce factors like what you're talking

00:54:26.080 about so our goal here was to actually build like an anti-fragile business which is such that look like

00:54:32.800 i'm not opposed to taking advertising but let's say we do and like you said there's a new story or

00:54:36.640 somebody conflicts with our values we don't even have to have a question in our minds and that primary

00:54:41.280 source of revenue is always going to be the people who support us so like now now we can officially

00:54:46.400 say the only people who own us are our fans which i love i mean they're you know they're they're our

00:54:51.760 boss and so in that way they give us the freedom to produce a product where there is just nothing in

00:54:58.240 my mind whatsoever and you'll also know this at from your time in fox this is the same thing at the hill

00:55:03.600 this is no knock on the hill they're a media company but when you're working there there are

00:55:08.720 interlocking interests so and i've told the story now publicly but like for example i did a segment

00:55:13.840 this is all i said all i said was maxine waters will be the chairwoman of the financial services

00:55:19.760 committee until the day she dies now what did i mean by that i was talking about the the democratic

00:55:26.480 the democrats in the house hanging on to the seniority system and her staff calls up the hill 1.00

00:55:32.080 and claims like i'm threatening her life oh come on yeah i know exactly and and just grow up here

00:55:38.640 we all know it's bs it's all intimidation but here's the thing she's the chairwoman of financial

00:55:44.000 services they hill reporters need to be able to talk to her now to their credit they didn't tell me to

00:55:48.400 shut up or anything like that i was just aware that it was happening but the thing is it's like i would

00:55:53.040 be lying if i said that i didn't have to at least think once or twice about saying something or

00:55:59.440 doing something and not thinking about the adverse impact that that might have on that is so true

00:56:04.800 whereas here access when you're with your big when you're with a big organization that has a lot of

00:56:09.280 tentacles they need access and you can't be the one effing up the access all day long no matter how

00:56:14.800 fearless you would like to be in your own reporting that is a true joy of being an independent yes

00:56:20.640 absolutely and one other thing that i'll say about this because you know being audience supported um in

00:56:27.360 and of itself is an incredible thing and gives you tremendous freedom but there's also a risk to

00:56:33.120 that model as well which is if your audience is all of one ideological stripe or partisan team then

00:56:39.760 you can be beholden to that audience too in terms of always looking to tell them what fits their

00:56:44.480 narrative or what they want to hear so the other piece that we've been really proud of that we hope

00:56:48.640 we're able to bring over to breaking points as well is we truly have people across the entire

00:56:54.800 ideological spectrum who have been um watching our content and and really appreciate it and so

00:57:01.520 that means look number one on every any given day we're going to be pissing off some part of our

00:57:06.320 audience and that's your brand or part of our audience happy so it's another way that you sort of

00:57:11.440 you know you have to be aware of your own incentive structures like the things that may be influencing

00:57:17.600 your reporting and your behavior even if you're not aware of them and so knowing that we've got an

00:57:23.600 audience that's across the spectrum that's gonna back us up is um is something that i'm just

00:57:29.360 incredibly grateful for well it's worked out perfectly because your time at the hill helped

00:57:34.400 you build an audience now you're ready to you know you're all grown up and you're ready to launch on

00:57:39.280 your own with that loyal following i i have zero doubt that this will be a success and that you guys will 0.99

00:57:44.880 be so happy and a couple years from now we'll all be you know hopefully fat drunk and stupid 0.95

00:57:50.080 celebrating how wonderful our new independent lives are away from these large corporate media 0.99

00:57:56.160 organizations that you know when you work as an employee for one of these groups you're necessarily

00:58:02.960 a little too cozy with power you just are just necessarily a little too tied into the very elites

00:58:09.840 that's sort of the theme of today's episode that you guys regularly rail against you know you can

00:58:14.880 get sucked into it and you can you certainly are working for people who who are out in davos and

00:58:21.840 out in aspen and may not share the agenda of your audience yeah you're exactly right and that's that's

00:58:28.560 part of the issue which is that and we are actually talking about this recently with matt taibbi and he

00:58:32.560 was relaying a story to us about he wrote this great piece on golden sacks after the financial crisis

00:58:37.600 and he was like yeah you know i i heard that you know the owner of conde nast or whatever

00:58:44.800 was at a party and like you know somebody at goldman made it known that they didn't like my piece

00:58:50.320 and it's again it's not that there was an editorial change to his piece or to his writing or to his

00:58:56.160 behavior but how can you not think about that like you have to think about ownership a key part of our

00:59:02.480 show has always been follow the money understand how elite corruption works understand influence

00:59:09.120 peddling understand how exactly colossal media screw-ups like i mean that you've pointed to with

00:59:15.280 jeffrey epstein and abc news and so much of that you need to understand how this stuff works and in

00:59:20.720 order to truly be able to reveal i think that stuff for all of our audience it was important that we

00:59:26.960 become independent eventually well but the other thing you said in announcing the show which i

00:59:31.840 want to talk to you about was cnn fox news and msnbc are ripping us apart and making millions of

00:59:37.760 dollars doing it billions really in the case of certainly fox and cnn if you add in their online

00:59:42.240 property um they are and i i do feel having grown up in the cable news industry that it is worse than ever

00:59:52.000 that they're they're less tethered to fact and you know providing a public service than ever sectarian

01:00:00.800 conflict cells and you know this is the this is also we just mentioned matt taibbi is this whole

01:00:07.360 thesis of his book is basically you know you had a long era the cold war era where there was a clear

01:00:13.040 sort of external boogeyman then you had the war on terror era where there was also a clear sort of

01:00:19.360 external boogeyman that could be used to gin up ratings and numbers for 24-hour cable news networks and

01:00:26.240 now the enemy is each other and so you know whether it's fox news convincing liberal convincing

01:00:32.880 their audience that liberals are out to like destroy their lives and their kids etc etc and

01:00:37.440 their way of life or whether it's msnbc and cnn convincing you that not and i'm not talking about

01:00:43.360 elites here i'm just talking about regular rank and pile republicans that they're the biggest threat

01:00:47.760 to the nation the biggest threat to your lives um those things reverberate throughout our society and have

01:00:54.800 massive consequences that we all live with i just actually on today's um on the inaugural episode

01:01:01.600 of breaking points talked about a new study that showed look for people like me who believe in

01:01:06.720 economic populist solutions and believe in having you know basic dignity for the american working class

01:01:13.520 these sectarian divides make that type of politics impossible because everybody just fixates on these sort 1.00

01:01:19.440 of cultural conflicts rather than any of the policies that could really change things for

01:01:25.840 people across the political spectrum make life better because look bottom line is if you hate the

01:01:30.720 person down the street who has a different political ideology than you do why do you want to have a policy

01:01:35.360 in place to kind of help that person so the more that that division festers and people profit off of

01:01:42.640 exploiting these divides and i think trump was you know chief among those who profited off of it and then

01:01:48.240 the liberals who love to oppose him also got rich and famous profiting off of those divides too but it

01:01:54.960 all has massive consequences so we're just planting our flag in the ground of trying to be you know a little

01:02:01.280 a little island of doing things a slightly a different way and trying to really point at where the problems

01:02:07.360 actually come from which is from a corrupt system and a completely failed political class you guys see

01:02:14.480 problems not parties i've that's sort of been your thing from the beginning you you're not no one on

01:02:20.160 your set is wearing a jersey you're open about where you stand on certain issues but it's you surprise

01:02:25.120 people both of you can come at an issue that wouldn't necessarily be from the traditional left

01:02:30.480 or the traditional right it's one of the reasons you've been so successful but i will say this as that

01:02:35.920 happens as um as the country gets more divided as the cable news game sort of gets exposed a little

01:02:42.880 bit more i really feel like with the birth of digital media and the explosion of it i should say

01:02:47.440 they're being exposed you know and what they're sort of their game is becoming more obvious people are

01:02:53.520 tuning out and uh it's not just because trump's gone if that is the number one reason but but it's not

01:02:58.880 just about trump i just looked at the latest numbers and i love sort of following the cable news numbers

01:03:03.440 because i lived it for so long cnn year over year right now is down 45 percent in the overall numbers

01:03:10.240 and 53 percent in the key advertising demo of 25 to 54 they lost more than half of their audience and

01:03:18.560 frankly it's again the only audience they care about is the younger demo because that's how they sell ads

01:03:22.800 that's how they stay afloat fox down 37 percent in the overall 38 percent in the demo msnbc is actually

01:03:30.880 down the least 22 in the overall 32 in the in the demo the daytime averages and the demos for these

01:03:37.200 networks listen to these listen to what these numbers are fox news is number one averaging in

01:03:42.000 daytime between the young younger demo 203 000 per show 147 people 147 000 people cnn 108 000 is the

01:03:54.000 average for the msnbc daytime show that means nicole wallace those people she's getting a hundred 0.99

01:04:00.080 thousand people that's nothing i guarantee you guys are going to beat that on your very first day with 0.98

01:04:05.200 ease that's nothing it's embarrassing i'm telling you i've said before my ass would have been fired if 0.93

01:04:11.520 i had anything near these numbers well and how many never did how much of those numbers are like on the 0.66

01:04:16.640 background in an airport where you have no choice but you know or it's like permanently gone in a

01:04:22.000 restaurant or whatever no i mean listen i don't want to brag but i will um before we even launch

01:04:27.280 we posted a couple of little like hey guys here's our new set we're really excited type of videos

01:04:32.560 to our channel and they're already getting higher numbers than that to our youtube channel that had

01:04:37.360 zero subscribers when we started so that just gives you a sense of how

01:04:40.880 how pathetically minuscule it is and look i'm not just cheering for their decline as like you know

01:04:47.200 uh because i used to work in industry or whatever like they are really bad for the country and so the 0.98

01:04:53.200 fewer people that watch that crap the better no i i've got to challenge you on i have to challenge 0.83

01:04:59.680 you on crap i do i give you jim acosta with a with a segment about trump's speech this past weekend 0.99

01:05:07.120 that is absolutely in line for an emmy and you decide for yourselves whether this is crap listen 0.99

01:05:13.600 it's as if much of the republican party is trapped in a jimmy buffett tune 0.90

01:05:20.640 wasting away again in mar-a-lagoville looking for that next election to assault 0.97

01:05:29.520 some people claim that there is an orange man to blame but i know it's my own damn fault 0.90

01:05:37.120 oh my god i just can't help me right this is where i'm like this is where i am stunned because

01:05:46.400 megan i mean we track the same trends right as as you were saying oh by the way rising or not rising

01:05:51.680 uh breaking points our new show's entire audience is in the demo literally all you know however

01:05:57.040 millions of people that they are there there's so much cognitive dissonance around this and i've

01:06:02.720 come to the conclusion that they must actually believe some of the stuff that they're doing

01:06:07.600 because it is so unbelievably bad for business i mean something they just are some there's a phenomenon

01:06:12.800 where they seem to be reporting more for themselves and for you know accolades from their colleagues

01:06:18.240 than from actual people and that doesn't i don't want to just you know i don't want to discount there

01:06:23.440 are still millions of people who watch cable news and there are millions who at the very least

01:06:28.080 have imprinted a way of thinking about politics into millions that i think we're going to be dealing

01:06:34.240 with for a really long time so their decline is something that i welcome because i think it's

01:06:39.680 actively bad for the country the real effort is trying to you know get the new mediums the new media

01:06:46.160 and everything into the same powerful position and that's that's still a decades-long project in my

01:06:50.960 yeah but it's well underway and you you think about the media embarrassments and just total dereliction

01:06:59.360 of duty this past year um when it comes to covet the wall street journal there's this article

01:07:05.600 about it the headline is it's a column it's it's a an opinion piece the commentary the science suggests

01:07:12.480 a wuhan lab leak i mean well done now we do know this but this these guys actually know what they're

01:07:16.480 talking about um two doctors one is uh author of stay safe a physician's guide to survive coronavirus

01:07:24.880 and the other guy muller is a an emeritus professor of physics at the university of california berkeley

01:07:30.160 a former senior scientist at the lawrence berkeley national lab and and let me just tell the audience

01:07:35.120 what it says because it's it's the best article i've seen yet or piece yet on how we know this came

01:07:41.040 from a lab i mean we all but know i guess it's the way to put it they say quote this virus has

01:07:46.240 a genetic footprint that has never been observed in a natural coronavirus ever number two a scientist

01:07:52.960 follow along can increase the lethality of a coronavirus enormously by splicing a special

01:07:59.760 sequence into its genome it leaves no trace of manipulation but it makes the virus very effective

01:08:06.880 at injecting genetic material into the victim's cells they say the insertion sequence of choice

01:08:13.840 is called the double cgg it is readily available and convenient and scientists have a lot of

01:08:20.000 experience with inserting it it also allows the scientist the added bonus of tracking its insertion

01:08:25.360 like it has a beacon that allows the scientist who inserted it to follow it um again double cgg combo

01:08:33.120 has never been found naturally in a virus and now i'm quoting now the damning fact these guys say

01:08:39.440 it was this exact sequence that appears in covet 19 proponents of zoonotic origin meaning you know

01:08:47.840 some pangolin i still pangolin still confuses me anyway some animal wound up in a wet market that's

01:08:54.480 zoonotic origin um and gave it directly to a human that's what appears to be bs they say proponents of

01:09:00.240 that theory have to explain why this novel coronavirus when it mutated or recombined just happened to pick

01:09:07.600 the virus's very least combination the double cgg why did it replicate the choice that the labs 0.79

01:09:14.880 gain-of-function researchers would have made yes it could have happened randomly through mutations

01:09:20.480 but do you believe that this is quoting still at the minimum they write this fact that the

01:09:25.360 coronavirus with all its random possibilities took the rare and unnatural combination used by human

01:09:32.880 researchers implies that the leading theory for the origin of the coronavirus must be laboratory escape

01:09:41.440 boom and nobody covered it you guys people and those who tried were shamed out of it or silenced

01:09:48.160 yeah and not just silence people were taken off twitter for months actually as a result of this i think

01:09:53.200 it's i i said this today on our show i believe this might actually be as big of a screw up as a rack

01:09:59.120 wft and if you think about what the global impact of this is we're talking about multi-trillion dollar

01:10:04.880 shutdown of our economy we're talking about an entire different course of the pandemic i mean remember

01:10:09.680 that the lab lead theory is in fact true in all current evidence he makes it i would say the leading

01:10:14.640 theory as to how exactly coronavirus came in the first place then dr fauci is directly involved i mean

01:10:21.520 this completely changes the entire course of the pandemic about how we regard public health

01:10:27.520 guidelines from the same people who have been funding and pushing gain of function research and

01:10:32.480 i think the biggest problem around the lab leak theory and more is that all of the people braying

01:10:38.640 about trust the science and everyone forgot to realize that scientists are just like everybody else

01:10:44.560 and they have a lot of money at stake if the lab leak theory comes out to be true and the media

01:10:50.160 basically did the beat beat the bidding of the public health establishment for ye for over a year

01:10:56.640 and gaslit a huge portion of the public into thinking that the truth or at least a potential

01:11:02.880 likelihood was completely debunked when it was actually the opposite that was the opposite right

01:11:08.240 that's those are the words they use crystal debunked um conspiratorial they said fringe and and

01:11:15.600 here's one other piece from the journal uh article they're pointing out that other coronaviruses like

01:11:20.480 SARS and MERS MERSA whatever however you say that um that they were both confirmed to have a natural

01:11:27.600 origin okay so those did not start in a lab um right they evolved rapidly at those two actual natural

01:11:34.640 origin um coronaviruses they evolved rapidly as they spread through humans until the most contagious forms

01:11:42.400 dominated that's what a natural coronavirus is expected to do covet 19 did not work that way

01:11:48.080 quote it appeared in humans already adapted into an extremely contagious version no serious viral

01:11:55.760 quote improvement took place until a minor variation occurred many months later in england

01:12:01.040 such early optimization is unprecedented and it suggests a long period of adaptation that predated its public

01:12:09.760 spread i.e in a lab in wuhan china where a woman who worked with bat coronaviruses trying to make 0.87

01:12:17.040 them more dangerous and so-called gain of function research was working on these very things and three

01:12:23.680 of her lab workers got very very sick in november of 19 and the chinese put a stifle on it so that 0.76

01:12:29.440 that news couldn't get out and then shut down visits to the lab the the proof is there it's right in

01:12:34.160 front of your very eyes and normally reporters when they smell a story like that you can't stop them

01:12:41.120 that's what's normal that's what should be normal um anyway but i mean look i'm not a bat coronavirus

01:12:47.920 expert but all i'm asking is that we just look at the facts and see where they leave and as you're

01:12:53.520 pointing out it increasingly seems like the weight of the evidence is on the side of the lab loop now is

01:12:59.920 it definitive yet no and it may never be it may always be a game of probabilities but as you're

01:13:05.440 pointing out these previous coronavirus um cases they actually found the animals from where it had

01:13:13.520 evolved so they were able to point directly to okay this is where it came from and this is how it

01:13:17.840 evolved and here's how we ended up here they haven't been able to do any of that with covet 19 so

01:13:24.000 i think it's such an important story about the media because it really exposed the blind spots

01:13:31.040 that are only getting worse and which were really exacerbated by the trump era you had on one side

01:13:37.120 people like trump and senator tom cotton and others who were largely on the right who were talking about

01:13:43.760 the lab leak theory and some of them were irresponsible and insinuating that like the chinese 0.79

01:13:47.920 released it on purpose and there's zero evidence of that and that seems completely insane but you had that

01:13:53.360 was the group on the one side and then on the other side you had a group of scientists who jumped out

01:13:57.440 very quickly to say no no no it's a hundred percent not that and we're very confident in zoonotic in

01:14:02.960 origin and so what a lot of journalists did and some have even admitted to this is because they trusted

01:14:08.960 and they had a long relationship with some of the scientists who were involved they erred on the side

01:14:14.480 of believing them versus because they thought you know these are partisan actors who are motivated to just

01:14:22.160 smear china they didn't do their own investigating or their own questioning of what incentives the

01:14:27.840 scientific community that was feeding them this line might have then when you layer it's dangerous

01:14:33.840 yeah and then when you layered on top of that the fact that some were saying oh well the the lab leak

01:14:38.080 hypothesis is racist that's when it really became completely off the table and now personally i think it

01:14:44.240 was a lot more racist when people were saying like oh it's so gross what chinese people eat and they

01:14:48.880 got this from bat soup and we're sharing all those weird pictures at the beginning that seems to be 1.00

01:14:53.360 more problematic but either way you should be just looking at what actually happened so that we can

01:14:59.200 avoid another pandemic again in the future okay but eating a live bat is is disgusting and i don't care

01:15:04.560 if you call me a racist for saying it again hot dogs are also disgusting though in fairness they

01:15:09.760 are totally gross i agree with that and so are clams um but no it is an example of of how identity

01:15:16.560 politics in infects our media in a way that is totally antithetical antithetical to what journalism

01:15:22.560 ought to be the there's the old adage in journalism that like you know you check it out your mother tells

01:15:28.560 you she loves you but you check it out right like you don't take anything at face value and this has got

01:15:34.320 all of the indicators of kick the tires please because the scientific community yes you could

01:15:40.480 see that they might have they might be compromised on a big story like this they're the the racial sort

01:15:46.080 of identity politics three strain being called a racist if you say this other thing that would

01:15:50.320 normally make most reporters say i'm gonna try harder to figure out whether i'm being silenced by

01:15:55.040 somebody using a line like that on me but what's happened here is all of the attempts to shame people out

01:16:00.720 of real reporting based on identity policy or what have you worked and then you had the assist by big

01:16:07.280 tech and on something that's killed over three million people uh it depends right because now

01:16:12.640 they're rolling back some of the numbers because people are admitting they overstated them people died

01:16:16.560 with corona as opposed to from corona but any event a lot of people died we still don't have real

01:16:23.040 answers as to what started it and so we're no better off in some ways than we were in november of 19 when

01:16:29.120 those three lab workers got sick no you're absolutely right and i think that the biggest problem of all

01:16:35.200 of this is that not only are we not better off is that we actually have worse information because

01:16:40.400 people have been gaslit otherwise i mean there are millions of people who will forever believe that

01:16:45.200 the lab leak hypothesis is itself racist there's actually almost nothing you can do at this point after

01:16:50.640 what a year of msnbc segments segments and cnn segments as well to the contrary so in that way i think

01:16:57.760 that the failure on the media level is just so catastrophic and at the end of the day this was

01:17:03.280 my same point on russia gate which is there are real consequences to this stuff like the number amongst

01:17:08.640 democratic voters the democratic base they believe russia is a much bigger threat than china i mean if

01:17:13.840 you know that's ludicrous if you look at any metric whatsoever in terms of geopolitical competition

01:17:19.280 military etc and if you were to look at what's the consequences of this are which is that the

01:17:25.120 scientific community by and large is going full forward with gain of function research the global

01:17:30.640 virome project of 1.2 billion dollars towards preventing the next pandemic that's their response

01:17:36.640 possibly the very same thing that unleashed this terrible event in the first place so it's just such

01:17:41.440 a horrific failure meanwhile do you see a future in which we do get more divided into normal people

01:17:49.120 and these so-called elites i mean it's obviously that's what's happening in big tech right now

01:17:53.360 i had a guest recently who was saying it's the controlled and the controllers but do you think

01:17:58.160 there's any hope that society is going to start redefining itself less with partisan jerseys and more

01:18:03.120 with shared interests in problem solving i have to have that hope because otherwise it's you know why

01:18:12.400 engage in politics why do what we do and in fact i it sounds really hokey to say but it's true like our

01:18:19.120 audience gives me that hope every single day um because we we truly do have people who come at this

01:18:23.760 from all walks of life all different political perspectives all different parts of the country

01:18:30.000 all of that and they're able to come together and watch the show we've had so many people say like

01:18:37.520 i couldn't even talk to my brother my dad my uncle my friend about politics and now we have this

01:18:43.760 language and we actually see these certain commonalities where we can have a discussion

01:18:48.080 we may not come to you know agree on everything but you can kind of then see the game that's being

01:18:53.440 played this game of division that's very profitable for people who are already you know

01:18:58.400 already have a lot of power and status and money so i am hopeful that that game is being exposed

01:19:04.560 and the more that it's exposed the more that people will ultimately opt out of it as we're seeing

01:19:08.960 in real time as you you know as you demonstrated very effectively with those table news numbers

01:19:14.960 falling off of the cliff oh by the way the good news is apparently jim costa i mean who the hell

01:19:19.840 knows when he airs but my my crack team informs me he has a 3 p.m show on saturday that averages around

01:19:26.640 80 000 in the demo that's you're next to a slashy now that's they give you a slashy when you're under 50

01:19:32.880 slashy is total oblivion oh bye jim bye jim all right so wait so let's just make sure we know

01:19:40.640 how people can find you and support you so um again it's say the name of the of the show again

01:19:46.000 easy breaking points on youtube and wherever you get your podcasts so easy you can get it free or you

01:19:52.000 can get sort of the streamlined version without them talking about their own show as their ads that's

01:19:58.800 right um for just ten dollars a month which is well worth it i'm so excited for you guys all the

01:20:04.400 best of luck come back anytime you want and give them hell thank you megan thank you megan up next

01:20:11.200 dan abrams is in the business of media in addition to being the chief legal analyst for abc news and he

01:20:17.120 was the host of the big big show live pd the a and e canceled just because they can't have shows

01:20:21.760 on television anymore that reflect cops in any way other than awfully um anyway it was a huge show

01:20:27.280 sadly it's no longer but maybe it'll come back someday and um dan runs his own media company so

01:20:33.360 he knows a thing or two about our media and where it stands right now what does he think about the

01:20:37.500 horrific performance it's delivered when it comes to things like the covid lab theory being suppressed

01:20:42.440 plus he's got a very cool new book out called kennedy's avenger assassination conspiracy and the

01:20:48.300 forgotten trial of jack ruby this is going to help you flip the pages and pass the time on the

01:20:53.640 on the beach this summer and educate you a bit on a really interesting legal and political case

01:20:59.780 in our country's history so don't miss dan but first i'm going to bring you a feature we have

01:21:05.460 here on the mk show called real talk where we talk about something going on in my life life in general

01:21:10.780 our country etc and today i want to spend one minute on what happened this past weekend with my daughter's

01:21:17.960 soccer game i sent out this tweet i got a lot of response and so i figured it might be worth

01:21:21.980 kicking around as we build up to the end of the soccer season this this for her was her last game

01:21:27.660 because we're going to be away for the very last one and it's the end of her time with this team

01:21:32.540 because we're moving and uh so it's a big one right she she's been on this team since she was i don't

01:21:37.840 know four she started in this league and then she made this travel team when she was six and now she's 0.98

01:21:43.960 10 so she's been with these girls a long time and was really looking forward to this game it's the

01:21:49.620 travel team so we were leaving new york we were going up to westchester you know an area right

01:21:53.540 north of new york city for the game and we got a notification i don't know five days earlier saying

01:21:59.160 the girls were going to have to wear masks while playing outdoors and the forecast was that it was

01:22:08.060 going to be plus 90 degree heat by the way it we watched the temperature as we were out there it was

01:22:13.400 it hit 100 at one point so you've got a hundred degree heat a bunch of 10 year olds who pose

01:22:20.800 almost zero threat when it comes to covid running around in a field not close to anyone right not

01:22:27.180 even close to each other they're running away from each other um being told initially that they have

01:22:32.420 to wear their masks in the new york area the covid death count the covid case count they're down to

01:22:38.920 record lows it's a miracle how well new york is doing and yet still because this was a school

01:22:46.680 district that had its policy the girls were being told masks and of course parents on the sidelines 1.00

01:22:52.000 were going to have to have masks everybody and i sent out a tweet saying i don't want to pull her from

01:22:55.700 this but this isn't safe and you guys have heard me say before our pediatrician told me that early on he

01:23:00.920 said letting your kid run around in 90 degree heat with a mask on is dangerous it is don't don't let her do

01:23:08.820 that and he said grown-ups too shouldn't be running with masks on it's dangerous it's not safe so that

01:23:14.940 we were not going to let her play and it was painful uh you know i didn't want to say no to her and i don't 0.99

01:23:21.360 feel that i or any other parents should be placed in this stupid position it's just stupid i've got to 0.98

01:23:27.380 assuage somebody else's unbased fear right fear that's not based in reality you're not going to get it 0.99

01:23:36.600 from 10 year olds playing soccer on an open field in the great outdoors uh so i've got to endanger my

01:23:41.760 child to assuage your unrealistic fear no and it just pisses me off for anybody who would impose

01:23:49.500 such a policy to begin with well thankfully it turns out our sort of parent mom um our mom who like does 0.55

01:23:58.460 all the managing and scheduling and all that fun stuff for our team who's amazing pushed back on the

01:24:02.980 school and went back and said this can't possibly be they had said it was a school mandate it wasn't

01:24:07.120 really an opposing team mandate and the place it landed ultimately was the girls have to wear the 0.58

01:24:13.940 masks on the sidelines and to and fro you know across the field but not while they're actually on the

01:24:20.040 field but all the parents have to wear the masks and we had to accept that you know it's like that that

01:24:25.400 at least was something that would let her play in a way that wasn't dangerous so so we did go

01:24:29.680 well the story had a happy ending they tied that wasn't the happy ending the the happy ending was

01:24:38.160 no one had a mask i mean no one the parents didn't wear masks the girls didn't wear masks the refs 1.00

01:24:46.680 didn't wear masks nobody even had the stupid mask hanging underneath their chin maybe two people 1.00

01:24:52.720 everybody else was mask free which was a collective rhetorical middle finger to these stupid ass rules 1.00

01:25:00.140 that people still have on the books and are somewhat enforcing and i think you know a little 0.98

01:25:04.860 pushback can go a long way uh i'm really relieved that our team did it and got a better answer and that

01:25:11.740 when people showed up they behaved like responsible adults who don't need a piece of fabric over their

01:25:18.480 face in a hundred degree heat to protect one another and by the way i don't know if it's

01:25:23.520 relevant but this was a more working class area and i think just back to the discussions we've been

01:25:28.940 having with dennis prager and others i just think people who really have to work for a living have 0.96

01:25:33.240 their priorities straight they don't obsess over stupid nonsense like virtue signaling now with the 0.98

01:25:38.740 masks which is what it is it is not anything more than that you don't need them uh outdoors are you 0.99

01:25:45.160 kidding me so reason prevailed though the red bulls did not they tied they were down three three zero

01:25:52.200 which was scary and then they came back to tie it up if they'd had two more minutes they probably

01:25:57.500 would have won but it was a great season it's been a great run i can't say enough about you know

01:26:02.440 childhood athletics and getting your kids involved in organized teams because all the things she does

01:26:07.660 this is the most important you know we're leaving new york she's leaving her school

01:26:11.900 uh she's leaving her friends and i think the hardest thing for her to leave is going to be

01:26:17.080 this soccer team right the kind of bonds you form when you play organized athletics and are part of a

01:26:22.280 team that got the blood sweat and tears on the field every week even at her young age there's no

01:26:27.740 substitute for it um it's been a great ride i've bonded with the with the moms and the dads on this team

01:26:33.960 in a really great way and i don't know it's just feeling a little nostalgic about it change change is good

01:26:40.880 not always easy but it's good so happy ending and uh the lesson here is like like tatiana in carmel new

01:26:50.580 york if you're told to do something unreasonable or someone tries to manipulate your child into a

01:26:56.800 situation you know is not safe for him or her fight that is today's edition of real talk dan abrams is next

01:27:05.620 dan abrams how are you hi megan how's everything good good thanks for having me on i'm excited to

01:27:18.860 talk about this legal case i love that you're doing this you find these old legal cases that i mean in

01:27:23.940 this case weirdly hasn't gotten enough attention and write about them we did an event right before

01:27:29.720 the covid shutdown on your book about john adams his first big trial um but this one people know

01:27:36.560 about obviously they know about the the kennedy assassination and jack ruby who stepped in and

01:27:41.040 killed oswald so we're going to get to that in one second but first let's let's just spend a little

01:27:44.440 time on the media okay because i've been going off about something that i think we agree on which is

01:27:49.460 how did our industry so drop the ball on the covid lab leak theory how did we allow

01:27:57.180 no one to seriously look into that pursue investigative reporting on it to accept the

01:28:02.940 facebook ban on it how so i i will tell you that a few months ago i actually was asking the same

01:28:10.700 question um which was how is the media i mean because as you know i i own media.com and um i love

01:28:19.920 that website everybody should check it out it's great for like even news summaries you catch up on news

01:28:23.680 on that site not just on news anchors and your producer steve krakauer was one of the the founding

01:28:29.520 members of the uh the media team um so you know i don't get involved much in the editorial on the

01:28:37.220 site i but i will occasionally pitch them stories right i'll say you know why isn't anyone doing this

01:28:41.660 and this is one of the stories that i pitched um in march and i said why is it okay

01:28:49.520 that people are calling this debunked and a conspiracy theory um etc um and so caleb howe actually

01:28:59.900 wrote a story that was published uh a few months ago asking the same question and citing some very

01:29:07.300 good articles that were saying that there did appear to be fear in the media about you know about

01:29:15.980 the possibility and again we don't know for sure but the possibility that donald trump was right

01:29:21.040 right that the possibility um and i think that look i do i think there's there's a hesitancy

01:29:27.560 in the in the mainstream media to have supported something that was controversial and which didn't fit

01:29:38.080 with what the you know uh the mainstream let's call it the liberal media would have liked right

01:29:45.860 the outcome which is the easiest right this idea that it came from animals is such an easier

01:29:51.040 sort of no blame sort of yes explanation rainbows unicorns humans are still good you don't have to

01:29:59.200 point your fingers at anyone and that may still be the case but but the fact that that there was an

01:30:04.680 unwillingness to even seriously evaluate this is a you know is a serious you know um

01:30:13.500 failure on the part of the media and i don't think there's any other way to say it i mean again i

01:30:21.080 would just i would say there were there were pockets of even the mainstream media that were

01:30:26.620 like you know sanjay gupta even at cnn was questioning uh what was saying that josh rogan of the washington

01:30:32.780 exactly so so so it's not that everyone right but there were way too many way too many who were

01:30:40.420 unwilling to uh you know question the orthodoxy and how do you the thing that i can't get past is

01:30:49.200 how we allowed the facebook ban i realize we don't run facebook we plea journalists or pleb i'm told it's

01:30:55.960 pleb i prefer pleb anyway the point is we have we're we're minions um how do we allow mark zuckerberg

01:31:03.900 to say you may not speak about that you may not write about that on on facebook for a year

01:31:09.040 how is there not a rising up of the industry to say but this is how we solve problems we

01:31:16.280 converse and we kick around theories and we get different scientists who know more than we do

01:31:20.960 and we interview them and we do investigative reporting like vanity fair just did and we get

01:31:24.860 state department officials to go on record with their names on meetings that are being held like 0.93

01:31:29.240 holy shit that seems like we probably shouldn't open this can of worms because we're the ones who 0.84

01:31:33.660 funded this gain of function research great reporting but it it came too late and we as an 0.97

01:31:38.520 industry seem to have just rolled our big bellies over and taken the abuse and so far dan i feel like

01:31:46.080 we're setting ourselves up to to take more abuse because i don't think zuckerberg's learned lessons

01:31:52.120 and i'm not sure we have either well look i well i i look i whether i'm hesitating to say whether i think

01:31:59.560 the media has learned any lessons from it the media has done the usual self-flagellation that occurs

01:32:05.600 right how could this have occurred and what happened here etc but you know there's no sort of willingness

01:32:13.140 to be you know most direct and honest about it which is to say that there was just a general

01:32:20.040 unwillingness to um pursue this theory like it just so many people didn't want it to be true

01:32:27.760 um and i think that i think that was uh that was part of the problem but but on the issue of

01:32:33.080 facebook you know look um facebook is enormously powerful and i will say that that even if their

01:32:40.800 quote-unquote heart is in the right place because i don't think that it was about on this particular

01:32:45.760 issue i don't think it was about liberal and conservative and this and that it was about the

01:32:51.560 fact that they were following the lead incorrectly of the you know the mainstream sentiment that was

01:33:01.820 that would be um an inaccurate statement the problem is i can see why facebook wants to be in the

01:33:09.200 business of saying if you're going to sort of post stuff about vaccines being dangerous and this and

01:33:17.380 that and stuff that really there's there's no support for and it's dangerous to society that i can i can

01:33:23.440 understand that this is different this is not about how you might be in danger right or something that

01:33:30.720 you this is about just figuring out how this happened um what led to it it's that important

01:33:36.360 investigation right but it's not the same as them getting involved and saying you know look and that's

01:33:43.620 a separate question right about how involved they should be at all but but but it's not a it's not

01:33:47.960 the same question as evaluating whether facebook can say you know we're not going to allow total

01:33:56.640 disinformation to be spread on our on our platform of course is a slippery slope though because you know

01:34:02.220 their their pronouncements on what is disinformation don't match up with the facts right you shouldn't be

01:34:09.060 banning stories on hunter biden and you shouldn't be banning stories on the lab leak and

01:34:13.560 and there was a fair amount of politics involved in this early on because as you accurately point

01:34:19.580 out you know trump was saying it what if trump's right this guy we all hate and we think he's racist

01:34:25.700 you had the new york times reporter explicit explicitly saying even last week um it's racist this is a

01:34:33.920 racist theory which we heard early on to a poor of manda villi um who just last week we tweeted

01:34:41.060 somebody someday we will stop talking about the lab leak theory and maybe even admit its racist roots

01:34:45.560 but alas that day is not yet here no it isn't a poor of a it's not because it's not racist it turns

01:34:51.600 out to be we we believe fact and a legitimate theory it's not i mean it's a legitimate theory

01:34:59.680 it is the it is the prevailing theory there is no theory that is more likely than the lab leak right

01:35:05.320 well i'm not sure that's true but i think that it's based on what based on the fact that when you

01:35:10.080 talk to and again i'm not an expert in this area right i don't know exactly how this stuff transfers

01:35:15.380 you know from a bat to a human right i just don't um but i can tell you that when i read even you know 0.62

01:35:22.640 now from looking not talking about the mainstream media but you actually read what the you know the

01:35:27.620 people who study this stuff are saying it is still considered just as likely that it occurred in

01:35:33.360 another okay absolutely not did you see the wall street journal reporting the virus has a genetic

01:35:38.160 footprint that has never been observed in a natural coronavirus that it's got this thing called

01:35:44.660 a double cgg combo it's never been found naturally but it is a favorite of those like the bat lady in the

01:35:53.020 wuhan lab who manipulate coronaviruses it makes it super easy for the virus to infect a human in a very 0.97

01:35:59.660 efficient way and this woman excluded that gene combo from her write-up of the coronavirus of this 1.00

01:36:07.480 of covet 19 in february of 2020 this woman who is the expert and who was doing this research and it

01:36:13.260 was gain-of-function research to make it more dangerous she excluded that particular double cgg section

01:36:18.800 even though it was obvious to any scientist who would who would check it out in the data that

01:36:22.840 accompanied her paper why'd she do that why because she was covering it up dan there is look i don't

01:36:29.520 i'm not stating as a matter no no i'm not stating as a matter of fact that it came out of the out of

01:36:34.160 the wuhan lab but i am saying there is no question now that that appears to be the most likely source

01:36:40.440 of this virus and anybody who's now treating that as second tier or even to something else isn't paying

01:36:45.540 attention well look all i can tell you is that you know i'm not seeing the same level of certainty

01:36:51.700 that you are and again i didn't read this article this morning so i plead ignorance uh on that article

01:36:57.500 so um if that you know if that becomes the definitive article look i can be convinced it's

01:37:03.800 not that i you know i don't have a stake in this right i'm perfectly happy to be convinced as i said

01:37:09.020 to you i'm the one who was pitching the story to media it's saying why are people calling this debunked

01:37:15.140 it doesn't look debunked at all to me um as to whether it is the only theory that can be taken

01:37:20.420 seriously or is the you know that i just you know i'm maybe i'm not enough of an expert now you're

01:37:26.420 creating a straw man i didn't say only theory that can be taken seriously i said is the predominant

01:37:30.180 theory it absolutely is the lead theory and and i and i believe most likely and i think that's that's

01:37:35.880 emerging now by the day and then you know there's the other strain of just the amount to which we

01:37:40.100 tried to cover it up that vanity fair report was just gangbusters on the amount to which our

01:37:45.860 most respected scientists worked behind the scenes to stop people from talking about this because

01:37:52.180 we had been funding this so-called gain-of-function research which made the viruses more dangerous

01:37:58.080 ostensibly in order to you know research it and be able to fight it but there was something bad

01:38:03.540 happened and a lot of people died and we need a we need an honest look at how all right wait yeah

01:38:08.100 well look and part of the problem is you know and again this is and i'm not claiming to be an

01:38:13.200 expert the world health organization quote on the study on this was a real problem right was the

01:38:17.940 um faith in institutions well right it's like right no another one drops but that's what made it the

01:38:24.620 extremely unlikely right they were the ones who came out and said it's extremely unlikely um and

01:38:31.520 you know i remember again this is just you know as as i was following this looking at sort of the

01:38:39.340 organizations involved in the conflicts associated with that i was like this doesn't seem like a

01:38:45.880 particularly credible um conclusion based on the fact that you know it was already clear before they

01:38:53.540 even reached their conclusion this was the conclusion they were going to reach that's right the chinese 1.00

01:38:57.960 were like this is a beautiful report you have here i would love the chance to edit it before you

01:39:02.260 release it oh we can have it great oh we handpicked all the doctors who went over scientists who came to

01:39:07.000 the wuhan lab to to do it in the first place what could possibly go wrong yeah so all right so let

01:39:12.740 me let me shift gears with you on conspiracy theories because it's not that all of your books are about

01:39:18.120 conspiracy theories but your latest book involves a case that is replete with them and um i remember

01:39:24.620 talking to arl inspector back in my days of yeah of covering the supreme court and he he was one of

01:39:31.320 those where's waldo guys who had been on everything on every case he was on the warrant commission

01:39:35.780 he was on the warrant commission and he was saying it wasn't the single bullet theory it was the single

01:39:42.820 bullet conclusion and he was not conspiratorial and believed that oswald had shot kennedy that was the end

01:39:49.940 of that um you've taken a look at sort of the immediate next chapter in your latest book to that whole story

01:39:56.320 and it is uh the story of jack ruby and like who was this guy and what happened to this guy and why

01:40:03.480 don't we know more about that trial the book is called kennedy's avenger assassination conspiracy

01:40:10.040 and the forgotten trial of jack ruby so what what is the answer to that i mean who was he why was it so

01:40:17.960 interesting and why have people sort of forgotten jack ruby in the story of jfk's assassination you know

01:40:25.040 you and i cover trials right and we cover legal stories etc i was embarrassed that i didn't even

01:40:31.700 know about the trial of jack ruby i mean my co my co-author and i were sitting there we'd written

01:40:37.740 three books about presidents and great trials that they'd been involved in um you know great trial

01:40:42.740 that lincoln argued teddy roosevelt is the defendant in a case john adams representing the british soldiers

01:40:47.940 and we're like is there another one started talking about jfk like obviously oswald is dead and we sort

01:40:52.000 looked at each other whatever happened with the jack ruby trial and then we dug in and we couldn't

01:40:59.280 believe how interesting it was and what a big deal the trial was and how controversial it was and how

01:41:07.940 many of the conspiracy theories emerged from the trial of jack ruby um and so you know we used the

01:41:15.300 transcript of the trial and coverage from the time to try and bring the story to life um of the trial of

01:41:24.160 uh the forgotten trial really is of of jack ruby and the fact that you know he was convicted and then

01:41:30.840 his conviction was overturned and you know i think that he and he died in prison but if he hadn't died

01:41:37.640 i think he was prepared to present a strategy that would have gotten him out in time with time served

01:41:46.280 and it's kind of amazing to think about that right so just to take people back um it was november 22nd

01:41:55.340 1963 that jfk was shot in dallas uh around an hour later oswald was arrested in a movie theater lee harvey

01:42:03.800 oswald and then two days later november 24th 1963 oswald was shot by jack ruby and it was on camera

01:42:16.120 and the news reporters had it and we've teed up a little clip listen there is lee

01:42:21.840 he's been shot he's been shot lee oswald has been shot there's the man with a gun

01:42:31.280 it's absolute panic absolute panic here in the basement dallas police headquarters

01:42:36.680 detectives have their guns drawn oswald has been shot

01:42:41.040 it's hard to imagine the hugeness of this you know a president's assassinated yeah right and then the

01:42:48.700 guy who the police say did it gets assassinated himself two days later on camera like i don't know

01:42:56.300 it's it's got some parallels to what we watched with derek chauvin in that not not in terms of the

01:43:01.640 escape the scale but somebody gets killed on camera you watch it with your very eyes then this sort of

01:43:09.240 trial of the century happens and everyone's got very strong opinions megan it's it no it's a very

01:43:14.860 good comparison uh for this reason and you know not many people have made it but the reason that

01:43:21.400 there's a real comparison is because in picking a jury you are now trying to find jurors who can be

01:43:28.680 fair but who have all seen the crime occur the incident and during the ruby trial the lawyers for

01:43:37.540 jack ruby insisted that they wanted to find jurors none of whom had seen the video they said they cannot

01:43:43.880 be i would cannot be eyewitnesses to the crime and you know there was a similar question in the

01:43:50.200 chauvin case about whether these jurors could be fair um having seen the video and the answer in my

01:43:56.580 view in both cases is that you know yes you can find jurors who have not taken a position on exactly

01:44:05.480 what the video means and jack ruby was a little more straightforward in terms of you know he literally

01:44:13.080 steps forward um and and shoots oswald and yet he presents a a pretty complicated defense initially

01:44:22.920 his defense was going to be what would be effectively viewed as manslaughter today murder without malice

01:44:28.280 meaning he just lost it he didn't want jackie to have to come testify he loved jfk and he just had

01:44:35.140 sort of saw oswald walking saw this smirk on his face and he just lost it because he carried a gun with

01:44:41.180 him at all times uh ruby um and that's not the defense they pursued instead they pursued a sort

01:44:48.460 of a kind of insanity defense which was to say that he literally did not remember the incident that he

01:44:55.320 had a form of a rare form of epilepsy and that he had an epileptic um event and um that during that time

01:45:05.180 he doesn't recall anything and the reason i think that they went for this defense is because he had

01:45:10.280 this sort of high profile lawyer who was probably the most famous lawyer in the country at the time

01:45:16.720 melvin bellat who wanted to go for everything right the boring defense was to go for the murder without

01:45:23.780 malice and you know what in texas at the time no more than five years in prison for murder without

01:45:29.040 malice but that was a boring defense why pursue that when you can pursue when you can be the lawyer

01:45:35.560 who got jack ruby off completely gets not found not guilty and i think that's i think it was totally 0.80

01:45:44.500 self-motivated by bell eye to try to sort of you know go for the gusto and it was a ridiculous it was

01:45:51.160 a ridiculous defense in my view i'm not it's interesting because my co-author and i disagreed

01:45:55.500 about the quality of the defense and we kept going back and forth on language as to how we would

01:46:02.060 characterize the defense because you know i thought it was just absurd and david thought that he had

01:46:08.040 actually presented a pretty compelling uh case i'm with you i agree it should have been it should

01:46:14.720 have been manslaughter and he would have had a much better result but he was found guilty and so

01:46:20.660 ultimately you know you can't argue with the result and sentenced to death which is i mean it's kind of

01:46:28.660 interesting because you wouldn't i'm not sure if i would have expected a texas jury to sentence jack

01:46:34.440 ruby to death for exactly right you know what you're exactly that is what the vast majority of

01:46:40.380 journalists who are covering the trial thought no one thought that they would sentence him to death 0.95

01:46:45.340 and the only thing i think that can explain that is that they were just the defense was so ridiculous

01:46:52.980 that they were just like you know that's it this is you know this is this is effectively you know

01:46:59.500 one person said it that it felt like uh they had sentenced the attorney um rather than jack ruby

01:47:05.720 but you know yeah there was there was a lot of sympathy for jack ruby immediately after this happened

01:47:11.460 you know people saying yeah you know i can understand it and and even for some of the mental health

01:47:16.600 issues it said but by the time this trial was over this jury was just done with this defense and and

01:47:23.620 done with jack ruby and and as you point out yeah the case got overturned on appeal so jack ruby

01:47:29.720 yeah he got a new trial um but there's a reason jack ruby did not live to tell us all about you know

01:47:36.000 to have it have his his name cleared or go for the manslaughter defense and try to get an acquittal

01:47:40.680 or at least a lesser sentence he died like really soon thereafter yeah he it was two months after he

01:47:48.240 won the appeal that he died of cancer and that led to more conspiracy theories right i was gonna say

01:47:53.220 it's legit cancer are we sure it's cancer yeah it was no it's legit cancer but think think about it

01:47:58.080 this way right which is this idea that someone let's say poisons uh ruby in prison you do it three 0.58

01:48:05.300 years after the fact i mean you know i mean it's it's sort of by the way it's the same problem with

01:48:11.420 the conspiracy theories about ruby killing oswald which is that the night that oswald was was arrested

01:48:18.920 the day oswald was arrested ruby was at the police station that night he was there right next to oswald

01:48:24.680 at one point and doesn't kill him that night the the supposed hired assassin decides he's going to take

01:48:30.640 a pass on killing him at the first opportunity he gets and instead allows him to spend two more

01:48:35.060 days with the police talking to the police um and and ruby was at the press conference that night

01:48:40.920 with the da chiming up uh well you know correcting the da on things about like what cuban association

01:48:49.200 oswald had been affiliated with that's the kind of guy ruby was he was like an attention seeker

01:48:54.540 he's not the guy you hire to be your you know your assassin up next we continue with dan but before we

01:49:02.160 get to that i just want to take this moment and give a special shout out to one of our listeners

01:49:06.200 his name i believe is dave sluzicek it's s-k-l-u-z-a-c-e-k and dave took the time to send

01:49:16.460 us a note asking if i would give him a personal phone call on his 50th birthday so that's not going

01:49:21.900 to happen dave however you meant enough to me to give you this uh this shout out in front of all of

01:49:28.240 our many many listeners which i think is even better he says he's not some crazy guy that sends

01:49:33.160 a bunch of these notes out he says he's a bit outside of his comfort zone writing this at all

01:49:37.540 this is how dave describes himself normal guy lovely wife two kids 13 and 15 i sell lumber for a living

01:49:43.820 and this september will be 20 years of marriage dave's facing the big 50 which i faced down this

01:49:49.500 year as well it's going to go fine you're starting it off wisely by informing yourself with good info and

01:49:55.180 spending your days with good people um and i just want to tell you i appreciate you listening to the

01:49:59.420 show and i am happy happy to wish you the happiest of birthdays lots of love

01:50:04.360 who did they think hired him the mob like under the theories that ruby was involved in all this and

01:50:13.340 ruby's hit on oswald was orchestrated by a bigger organization is it the mob or is it you know there's

01:50:19.260 so many theories about who is it really behind the jfk so many theories there are so many theories the

01:50:24.020 most prevalent one with regard to ruby is the mob right because he had mob ties it but they were

01:50:30.240 like low level ties he was kind of a joke ruby and he had talked to a mobster um you know a few days

01:50:37.580 before the assassination um having nothing to do with anything apart from the fact that ruby was

01:50:43.280 getting very upset that there were other strip club he owned a strip club and there were other strip

01:50:48.300 clubs around him who were being allowed to forego some of the the the licensing requirements and as

01:50:56.480 a result they were doing better business than him so he wanted to see if this mobster could help

01:51:00.660 with these issues with regard to the licensing on his clubs ah in fact ruby made a call and ruby had

01:51:07.680 been in cuba in 1959 i mean one of my one of the things that i think is so interesting is that ruby went

01:51:13.000 to cuba in 1959 right and so there are questions about oh could the cubans have been behind it etc

01:51:18.640 right problem is when ruby was in cuba like john f kennedy wasn't even like the most the leading

01:51:25.360 candidate i mean you know to be president i mean that the idea that that the conspiracy is going to

01:51:31.300 begin before it's even looks like john kennedy is going to be president um you know the the the most

01:51:37.600 compelling conspiracy theory to me just based on motivation was this idea that the not the pro

01:51:45.340 castro cubans but the anti castro cubans who were furious at the bay of pigs right at jfk abandoning

01:51:53.220 them in the bay of pigs that they were so angry that they tried to do this now there's no proof that

01:52:01.860 that's what happened and and oswald was actually a pro castro um that's you know he spent enormous

01:52:08.000 amounts of time trying to support castro to go back to cuba etc but you know the problem is that

01:52:14.980 motivation does not make an assassination you know people will cite the cia they'll say the cia was angry

01:52:22.020 at jfk about this or that okay but they killed you're gonna they're gonna take the leap now

01:52:27.760 to they killed him and they orchestrated it and no one was able to figure it out and have definitive

01:52:34.840 proof of it etc so you know the problem with the jfk assassination is the and you know and for me in

01:52:41.460 terms of the some of the um the media i've been doing around this is that there are so many different

01:52:46.760 theories right that someone will say to me what about the this person who said something something

01:52:52.140 something and i'll be like wow okay well you know um did that person testify in front of the house um

01:52:59.160 select committee in 1978 and they'll be like um you know and it's like you know it's there's so much

01:53:05.020 stuff out there but to me it's really simple is that the timing specifically with ruby putting aside

01:53:12.020 oswald for a moment in addition to what i said to you about friday and sunday was that on the day

01:53:16.740 that oswald is killed there'd been an announcement that oswald would be moved at 10 a.m from the

01:53:23.880 police station to the jail all the media is there everyone's so crazy right imagine them making that

01:53:30.440 kind of specific i mean let's talk about endangering the guy yeah well you know they they wanted to show

01:53:36.440 you know it's interesting they wanted to show because oswald was sort of suggesting he was getting

01:53:41.340 beaten up um and they wanted to show that oswald was not you know in physical uh danger uh by sort

01:53:49.720 of parading him but you're right the biggest mistake they made was parading him obviously i mean that's

01:53:56.080 when ruby shot right but but that video we played he walked right up to him and it's not like you know

01:54:00.740 he had to leap over turnstiles and pull an oj well bad comparison but it was rather easy execution

01:54:08.680 right right and and no metal detectors when they're getting you know ruby had kind of ruby 0.91

01:54:13.760 was always this guy was kind of hanging out with the media hanging out with the police etc but 10 a.m

01:54:20.020 the announcements there everyone's everyone's waiting for the move ruby's still like getting

01:54:25.360 ready that morning it's ruby doesn't come to this area until an hour and 15 minutes later when there's 1.00

01:54:31.700 a western union which happens to be basically you know within a block of the police station 100 yards

01:54:38.460 and he's going there because a woman who worked at his club was begging him to send her 25 dollars

01:54:44.080 because she's like i need it for rent i need a friend so he goes to the western union at 11 17

01:54:48.780 it's now an hour and 17 minutes after oswald is supposed to be moved he gets the receipt for the

01:54:54.000 western he saunters over to the police station walks in a police car is driving out he walks into

01:54:59.280 the garage it's literally a minute to 30 seconds before oswald ends up being brought out if oswald had

01:55:04.820 not asked to put on a sweater ruby probably would have missed him and the other thing is that ruby

01:55:11.300 was obsessed in a sort of odd way with his dogs meaning he would refer to them as his children and

01:55:17.680 one of his dogs as his as his wife um because he didn't have a wife he didn't have um kids etc i 0.98

01:55:23.220 heard she was a real bitch yeah oh sorry did you prepare that one i know you just that was off 1.00

01:55:30.120 they just come to me damn they just that was good that was that was off the cuff megan kelly ladies 1.00

01:55:34.600 and gentlemen um so so the dog's name was sheba and he had left the dog in the car when he went to the 0.95

01:55:47.080 western union he never would have left anyone who knows ruby says he never would have left the dog in

01:55:52.760 the car if he'd been planning to go shoot oswald um and knowing he'd be arrested it's just it's

01:55:58.880 another like the timing issues are the other big ones right which is that it really does seem like

01:56:04.400 it was an uncontrollable impulse right what movie was that from where he just he killed him on an

01:56:11.540 impulse on a whim yep yep it was it was a win it was and he thought he would be kind of a hero i mean

01:56:19.020 you know ruby was a kind of you know it was like a wannabe tough guy he was the guy he served as a 1.00

01:56:24.540 bouncer at his own club he'd get in fights a lot he would always be hero i i didn't i don't know what

01:56:30.420 the media coverage of him was like because when people some are mad that he killed the main piece

01:56:34.500 of evidence on on what was behind the jfk assassination which was the man who did it oswald

01:56:38.960 but was he your hero how did the press treat jack ruby so he was not treated as a hero um but there

01:56:45.980 was definitely a lot of sympathy for him in dallas which is why if you know and they would do studies

01:56:53.220 etc too about you know what the the polling was of people in dallas at the time and you know he

01:57:01.080 definitely had people not who you know because i think people were you know angry that now the the

01:57:10.260 questions about exactly what happened and how it happened went to the grave with oswald

01:57:15.140 um but there was again this idea that that he could have easily gotten this manslaughter

01:57:23.080 conviction this murder without malice um because there was you know generally i don't want to say

01:57:29.960 it was an understanding but the country you know it's interesting we cite this in the book there's

01:57:34.380 another case that happened um on the same day that ruby shot uh oswald where a guy was comes into

01:57:44.900 his house and i think it's his stepfather starts mocking kennedy watching the funeral proceeding

01:57:52.280 the the the son goes and stabs him and kills him and um two months later the judge uh lets him off

01:58:01.720 with no no jail time because the country was mourning um so my point is just that there was an

01:58:08.460 understanding of it which is why people were not in their right place emotionally yeah right yeah

01:58:14.680 yeah um well i love what you're doing there's so many juicy trials like to get your to get your arms

01:58:21.660 around and to get into and they do tell us i mean i love the adams one because it really told a lot

01:58:26.940 about one of our founding fathers and it was a juicy legal case as well um but you do a great job of it

01:58:32.460 because you spin a mystery i think this one's actually perfectly timed for the beach and the summer

01:58:37.040 where you won something i don't know a little a little sexy forgive me um but also that you

01:58:42.380 could learn a little bit about history through and so you guys you you nailed it i think this is a

01:58:46.980 fascinating story and uh i will forgive you for our our argument about the wuhan lab because i really

01:58:52.260 like well i don't even know that we're arguing you know about the wuhan lab it's that no we're not

01:58:56.120 arguing we we argued and i won well you know we're because you you have because you have determined

01:59:05.180 um the uh the definitive what do we call the most likely theory yes most likely yes right and i am

01:59:13.800 saying that um we are both critical of the media for not taking this seriously and i'm saying that

01:59:23.120 based on what i have seen that it is not as definitive as that that it is the leading theory

01:59:29.720 but again i also didn't see this article this morning um you guys should have sent that to me said

01:59:34.260 we're gonna be asking you about this wall street journal sorry about that yeah i just assume you

01:59:37.880 read the journal and yeah no you know every i wish i could read everything you know every morning

01:59:42.560 but um you're busy being writing about kennedy's avenger and and being ruby's avenger not really

01:59:49.200 you're not on his side but you do tell a fascinating tale dan abrams it's always a pleasure

01:59:53.660 megan kelly thank you for having me i appreciate it

01:59:56.700 and don't forget to tune into the show on friday because we're going to go neck deep into covid uh

02:00:06.040 again those shows that we've been doing have been very well received and we've been trying to keep

02:00:10.440 the information straight and real for you had a lot of follow-up questions actually in our um

02:00:14.520 apple you know reviews where you can post a comment with people asking more questions so i'm going to

02:00:19.760 try to get after some of those in particular on the vaccines but we want to get into this genetic

02:00:24.380 footprint and the and the cgg the double cgg and how it's never never before been seen naturally

02:00:31.220 come on the the jig is up you know it's we know what happened now what's going to happen next that's

02:00:38.540 the real question where's the accountability what are we going to do about it uh anyway we'll get into

02:00:42.900 all that you can be reminded of of that show without having to worry about it if you just go

02:00:47.540 subscribe to the show now on apple and give me five stars if you would be so kind a nice review

02:00:53.100 would be lovely i am still reading all of them notwithstanding your doubts people doubt me but

02:01:00.100 i do i read them and can i tell you something this is the nicest review i've seen in so long it was the

02:01:04.700 sweetest thing i don't normally just sit here and read nice reviews about myself on this show but

02:01:09.780 i gotta tell you this one struck a chord it was from somebody i have it here named modern no moderate

02:01:17.420 ish moderate ish moderate ish and the header was truth and he or she wrote megan has opened my eyes

02:01:23.420 to a whole room of truth tellers okay love that she is the north star on a moonless night so grateful

02:01:30.260 i found her show oh thank you so much because can i tell you that's how i see my guests you know that

02:01:38.060 that they're all stars on a moonless night that's that's what the media landscape is right now

02:01:43.660 and i am honored that you are feeling that way about the program uh i feel like we're all in

02:01:48.880 this together and we we will shine a light and screw those others who are trying to keep us

02:01:52.220 mad and in the darkness lots of love see you friday thanks for listening to the megan kelly show

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The Megyn Kelly Show - June 09, 2021

Exposing The Embarrassing Elites, with Sohrab Ahmari, Krystal Ball, Saagar Enjeti, and Dan Abrams ｜ Ep. 113

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