Alec Murdoch finally takes the stand in the murder trial of his own wife and 22-year-old son. He claims he was at the kennels when they were murdered, but the evidence points to a different scenario.
00:01:47.200He was also facing a lawsuit in connection with the son, Paul, who was murdered.
00:01:52.540His boat crash a couple of years earlier in which a young woman was killed.
00:01:56.020So a lot of financial pressure and the theory of the prosecutors is essentially that he killed his wife and son to garner sympathy for himself and make the law firm and others get off his case.
00:02:08.920And there's been testimony in this case that that kind of happened.
00:02:12.060The law firm did take their foot off the pedal when they found out this happened to him.
00:02:15.220They were like, my God, backseat on all the financial misdeeds.
00:02:17.960Poor guy had a double murder in his family.
00:02:20.080Well, today on the stand, Murdoch was asked why it took this trial getting underway and five weeks of testimony before he finally admitted that he lied.
00:02:31.700He lied to investigators about his alibi.
00:02:34.480And just for the viewers who aren't up to speed, what he originally told the cops, because he did talk, talk to the cops that night.
00:04:24.500But your reaction to the fact that the defense put Alec Murdoch on the stand at all and your thoughts on how it's going so far.
00:04:31.880Well, number one, I don't know that I would probably take issue with the defense put him up.
00:04:38.620This is one of the only decisions that the defendant absolutely controls, meaning Murdoch can be advised by his lawyers not to take the stand.
00:04:49.920I've been in a situation where I've actually in a murder case on repeated times told a client it's over my dead body.
00:04:56.120And the client says, I don't care and testifies anyway.
00:05:02.340But number two, he really has nothing, absolutely nothing to lose.
00:05:07.100The financial crimes, if you believe what's been put out there and what's been developed in this case, he's facing essentially under South Carolina law the rest of his life in prison anyway.
00:05:18.520So is he going to go down for those anyway and get convicted of this?
00:05:25.580Or is he going to get up there and try to explain it?
00:05:28.180So I had always suspected he would take the stand and had said as much.
00:05:32.700I don't see any downside for him to take the stand.
00:05:34.900By the way, up until this morning, I would have told you he was winning on points.
00:05:40.500What I generally see in cases like this is if the prosecutor feels that way, he's going to run out the clock, regroup over the weekend and come back on Monday and keep cross-examining him.
00:05:52.260If the prosecutor sits down today, then the prosecutor thinks he's done his job.
00:05:57.780Are you guys feeling any frustration, Ronnie?
00:06:01.140Let me ask you at how let's put aside the last 15 minutes before they break at 1130 Eastern, OK, because that that got spicy and it seemed to be going well for the prosecution.
00:06:14.140So he had almost two hours of testimony before that last 15 minutes.
00:06:16.740I am feeling frustrated as a recovering lawyer who did try cases at the the way this cross is being handled.
00:06:25.060You know, it's not like we're always taught.
00:06:28.000And in actual practice, most skilled cross examiners only want yeses or nos from the person they're crossing.
00:06:36.340And then you went down to the kennels, didn't you?
00:06:40.100And you saw Maggie and Paul, didn't you?
00:06:42.160And you spent the following amount of time there, didn't you?
00:06:44.820And yet you told this jury yesterday that for the first time, whatever, when you spoke to law enforcement days after the murders and the night of the murder, you claimed you never went to the kennels.
00:07:36.160It's like Alec Murdoch is smart and this ain't his first rodeo in a courtroom.
00:07:42.460And he's taking all these opportunities to try to ingratiate himself with the jury, go off on his meandering talking points about things that may or may not matter to the case, but trying to show them I'm helpful.
00:07:56.020I'm here cat in hand, you know, admitting to the financial crimes.
00:08:05.820And the D.A. is allowing him to get away with it.
00:08:09.340Well, there's one thing that we probably should talk about.
00:08:13.920We are watching this and not in the courtroom.
00:08:16.720If you believe what's happening or what's being reported in the courtroom yesterday, I heard at least two reporters say that at least two jurors were crying during his testimony.
00:08:28.900Another juror apparently pushed some Kleenex towards him.
00:08:33.020If the prosecutor is seeing this, he may want to kind of run out the clock, which is what it seems like they're doing right now.
00:08:41.740To to follow up on your point, the fact that they've spent so much time in what Dick Harpootlian said yesterday before they recess is I haven't heard murder.
00:08:51.200The word murder for the last two hours.
00:08:53.760And the judge said, well, that's fine.
00:09:29.740Ronnie, when you listen to this guy on the stand to me as somebody who very recently interviewed the human lie detector, Phil Houston, developed the CIA's deception detection program that they're still using to this day, was at the CIA for 25 years actually doing this.
00:09:44.220So I'm not joking when I say he's a human lie detector.
00:10:26.440But I do think it was interesting that this the story in that's changed that's so critical is whether he was home taking a nap at the time of the murders or he was down at the kennels doing the murders.
00:10:38.640And he told the cops he was home taking a nap during the time of the murders, then got caught that he was there on that Snapchat video at least six minutes before the murders, like around six minutes before the murders took place.
00:10:49.040So now he's changed the story to, OK, I did go by the kennels, which isn't what I said initially.
00:11:36.420But when I got up from laying down, as I was getting ready to go to my mom's, there was a point in time where I thought Maggie and Paul had come back.
00:14:36.900I may have got a spit cup when I napped, if I napped.
00:14:40.720The old story on camera, two cops, was I napped for one hour.
00:14:45.080Now, could you put more qualifiers in the on-stand testimony?
00:14:50.540Well, so one of the things, you know, my father was a homicide prosecutor, and he always used to say that it doesn't matter what happens in a trial once the defendant takes the stand.
00:15:02.360Because then the jurors are going to go back into that jury room, and all they're going to talk about is what did the defendant say.
00:15:09.680And here, that's what they're going to be focused on.
00:15:12.360I don't agree so far, and like I say, I think it's premature to make a judgment until we see whether they go the rest of the afternoon, regroup, and come back on Monday, or whether they just sit down.
00:15:23.880I think it's premature because so far, if what people are telling me in the courtroom is true, I think he's acquitted himself, if you'll excuse the pun, extremely well.
00:15:36.800And he's obviously connected with some of these jurors.
00:15:39.560And, you know, the sip cup and the shit me up and the other colloquially expressions, colloquially expressions that he's been using, I think he resonates with some of these jurors.
00:15:52.340And obviously only time will tell, but I also think that the prosecutor understands that.
00:16:00.320And I think part of the, because the prosecutors are taking enormous criticism on their approach.
00:16:06.260I think they understand that they've got to do something to erode or take back the narrative, if you will, because I think he's been effective so far.
00:16:16.160I know. Well, that's, I'm actually troubled by that as somebody who thinks he did it, by how kind of charming he is.
00:16:24.420You have a, you've got a chorus of people who agree with you because you cannot believe the ransacking that the prosecutors are taking here.
00:16:32.920And I, you know, I'm not one to usually jump in to defend the prosecutors, but I understand their conundrum.
00:16:39.280I've been there before on the other side. And if you've got jurors and you're watching those jurors in real time and they are,
00:16:47.980if your opponent is resonating, you have to be very careful as to what you do and how you do it.
00:16:54.980I mean, I've never tried cases like you have. And I start, I have never tried a criminal case,
00:16:59.540but I'm much more in your, in your old colleague, Nancy Grace's field of get up there and browbeat the hell out of him.
00:17:07.040Show the jury, you can't stand this guy. This is an evil man who murdered his own child and his wife and has been lying about it ever since.
00:17:17.480I'd, I'd have no trouble showing them. I hate him and you should too.
00:17:22.020But the problem with that approach, and I've gone round and round with Nancy about this over the years,
00:17:28.060but the problem with that approach is you don't want to, if you're the person who's supposed to be guiding them
00:17:34.500to the ultimate truth, if you will, you don't want them to hate you or turn on you.
00:17:40.020And if you browbeat too much on somebody who they like or feel empathy for, they can turn on you.
00:17:46.600I know that's true. But if there's been so much evidence in this case that I feel like makes them not like Alex Murdoch,
00:17:53.620Alex Murdoch, his best, his best quality is what we're seeing on the stand or what we at least saw yesterday on direct,
00:18:00.260which is he's a good talker. He sounds like a, you know, sort of, I don't know,
00:18:05.180a guy you'd want to have a drink with or a dinner with like that, like the way he talks.
00:18:08.500And he's, he's sort of doing a good job of seeming helpful.
00:18:12.700But the prosecutor got, got a good line in on that right before they went to break when, you know,
00:18:18.200Alec Murdoch is like, I've been so cooperative. And the prosecutor saw a moment and took it.
00:18:22.280This is soundbite four. Other than lying to them about going to the kennel.
00:18:31.820I was cooperative in every aspect of this investigation.
00:18:35.700Very cooperative, except for maybe the most important fact of all that you were at the murder scene
00:18:40.340with the victims just minutes before they died.
00:18:47.280Right. I did not tell them that I went to the kennel.
00:18:52.280That was a good moment, Ronnie, for team prosecution.
00:18:57.060Well, it was. The missus, not to be critical of the prosecution, I think they're doing a good job.
00:19:02.540He's a difficult witness. But the whole purpose of the financial crimes truly was to bolster a pretty
00:19:09.900weak motive case for the state. We all know that. You know, that being said, if it's turning into a
00:19:16.240credibility case, the financial crimes are a goldmine. And yet the prosecution let Alec get away with
00:19:23.080this false narrative all day yesterday that he's candidly and openly admitting that he stole that
00:19:29.460money. I mean, I don't know how many times I need to say it to you, Mr. Waters. I took that money. It was
00:19:33.380wrong. He pled not guilty to all 90 of those offenses. As he sits in the courtroom today,
00:19:39.380the official position is not guilty. So I think he should have snapped that off on him pretty good.
00:19:45.980And then then with Russell Lafitte, there's another example. He tried to come to the defense
00:19:51.400of Russell Lafitte and the. Remind us who that is. Yeah. And what he said about Russell Lafitte is
00:19:58.120Russell had nothing to do with this. I did all of that by myself. Well,
00:20:03.640is Russell Lafitte the bank executive who was found guilty on like helping Alec with these crimes?
00:20:10.000Yes. Yes. I'm sorry. He is the bank official from Palmetto State Bank who was charged as a
00:20:14.940co-conspirator on many of Alec's financial crimes. He was tried in Charleston just months ago.
00:20:21.900Alec didn't appear for his friend. He sat silently by why this guy got tried and convicted on all of
00:20:28.380those offenses. And yet, yet he tries to garner some sympathy, some credit for now saying openly,
00:20:34.960well, Russell had nothing to do with that. You know, there was a time to come forward and say that.
00:20:38.520And it wasn't yesterday. It was when your good friend Russell Lafitte was facing his own trial
00:20:44.060and was convicted. The problem is that arguably is what's called Griffin air. And the U.S. Supreme
00:20:53.300Court has weighed in on that. And that's commenting on the failure to of a defendant to comment can get
00:21:00.580you in big trouble as a prosecutor. And they don't want to go down that road. They've had a couple of
00:21:04.560objections on that so far when when the the D.A. said you never told anybody this story, did you?
00:21:09.360You never volunteered. And the defense is sort of trying to stand up and say Fifth Amendment,
00:21:12.640you know, privilege had no no obligation to. And the judge has been overruling that objection.
00:21:17.120But the financial crimes, it's not that Alec Murdoch has rehabilitated himself on them,
00:21:22.220but he has been saying, OK, I lied, feel terrible. I'm very sorry to everybody, but not for nothing.
00:21:28.920And like the one guy I stole from owed me a bunch of money. So I didn't really feel like I was that
00:21:34.400much of a crumb in stealing back from him. He owed me the dough. Our joint investment fell apart.
00:21:40.340And then I was the one stuck with the bill. So, yes, I did steal money when it came from him later
00:21:45.200or to should have gone to him. But, you know, he's no angel is kind of what Alec Murdoch said. OK,
00:21:49.980point for him. Why is it? Why the prosecutor is allowing him to go on like this again? I do not know.
00:21:55.460And then he says he made some points on the prosecution's theory is on June 7th, 2021,
00:22:02.300he was confronted by the law firm. We know you stole. You've been embezzling. You stole from
00:22:07.560clients. You know, you're basically if all this is true, you're not only fired, you're going to get
00:22:12.060disbarred. The water's creeping up on Alec Murdoch to the point where he goes home and kills his family
00:22:17.060to generate sympathy for himself instead of making himself into this horrible person in the newspapers
00:22:22.080the next day. And he has been rehabilitating himself on that, too, Ronnie, saying it really
00:22:29.080wasn't much of a confrontation. When I talked to Jeannie of the law firm, like she was basically
00:22:33.940like, I feel bad even raising this. We've noticed some irregularities, but he has way,
00:22:40.720way, way downplayed what happened between him and the law firm on June 7th. And that's that's
00:22:45.600hurtful to the prosecution. It is hurtful to the prosecution. When she testified, Jeannie was a
00:22:51.780terrific witness. And I think she gave a completely different account of what that that exchange was
00:22:57.280with Alex. It was far more confrontational. It was far more direct. And at the time she testified,
00:23:03.460I think it came across very impactfully. But that was a long, long time ago. So I don't think the
00:23:09.080jury recalls much of Jeannie. I think they're going to take away Alex's recall of it, that it was really
00:23:15.180kind of a non-event. I do think he gave very good answers to dispel the idea that his financial world
00:23:22.040was collapsing on him. Yeah, I know. And that's motive. That's motive, which, of course, is not
00:23:27.680required, but nice to have. More with Mark and Ronnie after this quick break.
00:23:37.180Ronnie Richter remains. He's a South Carolina lawyer. Mark just got called into court because
00:23:41.340he's a busy, busy man. So we'll see. We'll check back in with Mark and his thoughts.
00:23:46.040Let me go back to Ronnie. So, Ronnie, one of the things that's been bothering me about
00:23:50.640the Alec Murdoch testimony is and the prosecutor is trying to point this out like you got this great
00:23:56.700memory for all sorts of details, unless they relate to the moments before the murder or right before you
00:24:03.100claim you left Paul and Maggie. And here was just an example that just stuck out to me as,
00:24:08.280you know, like this. This makes no sense where he he allegedly can't remember what would be the
00:24:14.220final conversation he had with his own wife. This would be. Think about it. If you have a loved one,
00:24:20.080a spouse who gets brutally murdered, you don't remember the last words you spoke to that person.
00:24:26.160Everyone remembers the last words they spoke to a dying loved one, whether it's by murder
00:24:29.960or another cause. But I would imagine, especially if it were a murder. Here's thought five.
00:24:34.320Did I say goodbye? Yeah. Did you talk to them at all? Or did you just get the chicken,
00:24:39.840put it on there, jump on there and just take off? I wouldn't have just gone off. I mean,
00:24:43.600I would have said, I'm leaving. Okay. Did I say goodbye or bye? And again, go ahead. I mean,
00:24:48.320there would have been some, you know, there would have been some exchange. I'm not staying here.
00:24:55.780Well, what was that exchange? I mean, you have, you've had such a photographic memory about these
00:24:59.220new stories. What, what, what, what happened here? No, it's not, I can't tell you the exact words.
00:25:06.040You don't remember your conversation after you put that chicken up. Did y'all talk about the chicken?
00:25:14.060No, I don't think we did. Did you talk with Paul about catch his tail?
00:25:18.760After the chicken? Yeah. No, I know I didn't do that. Did you tell Maggie,
00:25:24.240Maggie, I'm going to go check on him? At that point? No, I don't. I don't think I did.
00:25:28.320Could you tell Maggie, oh, it's hot out here. I think I'll go back?
00:25:31.820I certainly would have said something to that effect. All right.
00:25:36.040I mean, Ronnie, really? No, no, it bothers you for the same reason it bothers me. And that is,
00:25:43.240that is not truthful testimony. But the bigger question is, what is the jury hearing? You know,
00:25:48.500has he connected with one, two or more, like Mark seemed to believe?
00:25:52.200When you see the techniques that he's using in answering questions, he recasts questions all
00:25:59.340the time, right? So I don't know, what do you mean by wealthy? I mean, I don't know,
00:26:04.140what do you mean by, you know, just constantly creating room for himself to maneuver by recasting
00:26:11.640the question? Even here in this most important of all conversations ever, he's creating time and
00:26:17.480space for himself to think about it. You don't have to think about the last words that you said
00:26:22.040to your wife who's brutally murdered. And it's not believable. So if the jury believes he's lying
00:26:29.340about the most important fact in the case, and that's the fact that he was there minutes before
00:26:34.800the murders, then he has to be guilty. And even just like, he's, he's sort of lost the thread on
00:26:42.800when to cry. You know, like, he knows he should cry when he's talking about the condition of the
00:26:48.600bodies when he allegedly stumbled upon them innocently, not knowing what he was walking
00:26:53.100into. But an actual grieving relative would 100% be choked up in talking about the last moments they
00:27:01.160laid eyes upon their son and their wife, literally four minutes before they were brutally murdered,
00:27:07.680when you could have been there. Maybe you could have stopped it. You could like, that's what a normal
00:27:13.420dad or spouse would be saying like, my God. It would be emblazed in your brain. Wouldn't it?
00:27:22.220Wouldn't you play this over in your head over and over again? Every movement, every glance, you know,
00:27:29.360every word that was spoken. I mean, if there are facts that should be cemented in this man's mind,
00:27:35.160it's that last interaction with the people who met the most to him in the world and that he's
00:27:40.280fuzzy on this facts really doesn't play well at all. Yes. Honestly, I, the audience knows I lost my
00:27:47.160sister, um, who's 58 years old, just this past October. And I, I mean, I remember every word I
00:27:54.900said to her when I got to that hospital, she couldn't, you know, necessarily hear me, but it
00:27:59.800doesn't matter. I remember every word I uttered in that hospital room where we were for hours.
00:28:05.160That, that kind of memory doesn't go away. It's seared in one's memory. You know,
00:28:09.960you're losing somebody who's hugely important to you. And even if he didn't know he was about
00:28:15.480to lose Maggie and Paul, you go back and relive it. You know, you, most people beat themselves up
00:28:19.940after they lose somebody suddenly due to murder, due to a car crash, you and say like, why didn't
00:28:24.140I say I love them? I wish I had given him a hug. You know, like none of that, none of that.
00:28:28.680He's just weaselly all over the board. No. And, and I, I, in the past have lost a loved
00:28:34.780one to an act of violence. And I, I can tell you, I think mentally you're prepared to hear
00:28:39.640the news that maybe someone got sick or there was a terrible accident, but you're not prepared
00:28:44.140to hear the news that someone died violently. And it, it, it embosses on you. I mean, where
00:28:50.700you are, what, who you spoke to, what those words were, it, it imprints immediately and
00:28:57.800indelibly. So I don't buy at all that, that he's looking for the words that should be so
00:29:04.860imprinted in his mind. Especially if you were there moments before the act took place,
00:29:12.320any normal family member would be saying the number of hours I have beaten myself up for
00:29:19.040going back to the house. Why did I go back to the house? What if I had stayed there? Maybe
00:29:23.640I could have saved them. Maybe I would have seen the killer. You know, none of that. He's
00:29:27.980not, he's not emotionally in tune enough to realize this is a whole thread that actual grieving
00:29:34.480family members would be mired in. And there was an important admission. I thought it was
00:29:40.100the only moment I've seen him on the stand, Ronnie, where he didn't seem to get that he
00:29:45.580was giving them a good admission. He he's been two steps ahead of them for most of the
00:29:49.460cross, but in this one moment, he didn't seem to realize what he was admitting when the prosecutor
00:29:55.280was asking him about whether the dogs at the kennels were acting strangely as if potentially
00:30:03.240a stranger was there. Cause of course, what, what he's setting up is under your new story,
00:30:09.020sir, you left. And like two minutes later, after you left, they were murdered. And so somebody
00:30:17.840didn't just pop up at the kennels or on the Mazzell property within those two minutes, like
00:30:23.500that person would have had to be there. And this is how Alec Murdoch handled the, the,
00:30:28.680the questions about the dogs it sought to for the dogs barking and carrying on or going out
00:30:37.780into the woods or acting like they sent somebody was around that they didn't know
00:30:41.520where the dogs acting like there was somebody around it. They didn't know. Yeah. Like dogs do
00:30:48.300know. No, they weren't. There was nobody there was around it. The dogs didn't know. Okay. Dogs
00:30:56.620didn't didn't to your indication sense anything out of the ordinary. They were just chasing after
00:31:01.880the guinea. There was nobody else around. All right. Good for them to sense.
00:31:10.900What did you make of that? Yeah. You know, I'm from here and I don't know for the broader audience
00:31:18.820that they can appreciate just how remote this place is. I mean, this is, this is as rural South
00:31:25.400Carolina as you can make it. There's some backwaters, there's some farms. I mean, there is nothing out
00:31:31.620there and people who do have dogs or kennels. I mean, they're out there for a reason. If anything
00:31:37.040moves, I mean, they're, they're raising hell out there and it's an experience that the jurors here
00:31:44.060would, would understand. Also this family in that community, you know, if, if the squirrel farts in
00:31:52.140Hampton, I mean that the Murdaugh's know about it. So the, the idea that two unknown assailants could
00:31:59.440have slipped into Mazzell in the middle of the night undetected and been there coincidentally,
00:32:05.420just minutes after Alex leaves the area and shoots and kills Maggie and Paul with weapons that
00:32:12.080were from the residents is so outlandishly it's, it's hitting the lottery while getting struck by
00:32:21.520lightning. I, and to me, I hope that's what the, the prosecution ultimately conveys to the jury,
00:32:27.960how unlikely it could be that it's anybody other than Alex.
00:32:31.680Mm-hmm. He, um, yeah. And when they, I hope they are better at closing than they are at crossing.
00:32:38.860That's my one big hope. Like when you've got your cross because the best way to do a cross
00:32:43.240examination and I was watching it thinking they should have, they needed to pull an all nighter
00:32:48.220and they didn't because you never ask a question you don't know the answer to. And you say, Mr.
00:32:54.420Murdoch, you previously told law enforcement that you took a nap. We've gone back and checked. We can't
00:32:59.680find him saying an hour. We, which, as the prosecutor said, I'm trusting the guy that
00:33:03.080that's what Alex said at some point we do. We have it. Hold on. Listen to my team here. Let's
00:33:08.100play what we do have. Here's where, here's what we heard Alex saying 25 minutes. It's definitely
00:33:13.600longer than may or may be not napped. It can't be sure. I might've napped him a short dose,
00:33:18.200whatever. He used to say 25 minutes. Here's what we have.
00:33:21.140I, uh, I was up at the house, uh, laid down, took a nap on the couch, probably,
00:33:28.620I don't know, 25, 30 minutes. I got up. I called Maggie.
00:33:36.800Okay. So you and I both know a skilled prosecutor has that at the ready. And they say yesterday,
00:33:43.600you told this jury that you may or may not have napped. Your new story is you don't,
00:33:47.540you don't know if you're napped. Isn't it true? You told law enforcement moments after the alleged
00:33:51.280murder, you nap for 25 to 30 minutes. Yes, it is. In fact, here you are telling law enforcement,
00:33:55.940let the jury see it and then let him lie right on the back end of it. Like at every turn,
00:34:01.020you should be doing that to underscore what a liar he is and on big details and small.
00:34:07.600Yeah. You, you have to wonder. I certainly they anticipated he would testify, but
00:34:11.760maybe not, you know, maybe you would want those first 10, 15, 20 questions to be just hit stick,
00:34:19.800move, no room for wiggle from Alex Murdoch hit with your best punches first. And to your point,
00:34:26.800there should be nothing more than room to say yes or no. And if he says anything else,
00:34:31.160he's going to look like the liar that he is, but that's not the way the prosecution came out of the
00:34:36.460box. Now it's, it's more of a grind. Um, but I think you got to capture that jury immediately
00:34:42.240and hit with your best, best punch fast. The, um, I, you tell me, is it a Southern thing? Like
00:34:48.320a polite manners thing? Cause I know they're a lot more polite in the South than they are in New York
00:34:52.300where I'm from. Um, but I'll give the audience an example that they remember recently. And that was
00:34:57.300the cross-examination of Amber Heard in the Amber Heard, Johnny Depp case. Um, the lawyer,
00:35:02.660Camille Vasquez, she did not offer her any quarter. It was answer my question, please.
00:35:09.200That's not what I asked you, your honor. Could you please instruct the witness to answer the
00:35:12.600question? If you can't control the witness yourself, you get the judge to step in because
00:35:16.140the judge understands. And so does the, the lawyer for the person on the stand.
00:35:20.220This is cross-examination. This is cross. I'm allowed to be aggressive. I'm allowed to treat
00:35:24.940the witnesses hostile. I'm allowed to elicit only the answers that I'm asking for. Yeses or noes,
00:35:29.520if that's what I want. And if you try to wiggle, I will control you.
00:35:32.660I will prove to you in this jury who is in control. It is me. It is not you. And so like
00:35:37.480she did a masterful job with Amber Heard and scored a lot of points. So is it a, is it a
00:35:42.860cultural difference? A little bit. I mean, there are rules of engagement here that I think don't
00:35:48.520apply everywhere else. I mean, and he did lose his wife and his son. Okay. So that that's a fact
00:35:54.840that we know. Um, so you have to tread lightly a little bit. Okay. But when he starts becoming
00:36:02.600evasive, it's at that point, you're allowed to take the gloves off and go hard. Now, if you, if you
00:36:07.380have a bad witness, a bad person on the stand, yes, you go hard immediately, but this is kind of an
00:36:13.700unknown quantity. You know, is the jury perceiving him as the murderer or as the victim? We're not sure,
00:36:19.420but Alex gave the prosecution, the opportunity to go hard when he started becoming evasive.
00:36:26.420And then you go in all those qualifying words is Phil Houston. Human lie detector explains
00:36:33.700are basically off roots. He's giving himself off roots. Like maybe might've could be possibly
00:36:41.020because he doesn't know what the prosecutor has. He doesn't know whether the prosecutors got
00:36:46.500something in his pocket that he's going to hammer him over the head with. If he's too definitive,
00:36:51.480if Alec is too definitive. So he puts all these off roots in their qualifiers. Like, well, I didn't
00:36:57.160say, Oh, I said, maybe I said, probably I didn't really commit to that, but that's what a skilled liar
00:37:00.400does. And that, and now Ronnie, this story about, I was prepared to tell you this story all along.
00:37:07.280You blew off all my many phone calls to you, the prosecutors there. I was sitting in jail saying,
00:37:13.180I want to tell you something really important and nobody returned my call. Here's a little bit of
00:37:18.480that on the stands, hot one. Did you ever reach out to anyone in law enforcement or the prosecution
00:37:26.800and tell that story that you told this jury yesterday about the kennels before yesterday?
00:37:33.100Did I ever reach out to law enforcement to say, I want to tell you about the kennels? No, sir. I did not
00:37:38.320before yesterday. Did you ever bring up what you told this story about that kennels
00:37:44.320to anybody in the prosecution or anybody in law enforcement? No, I didn't have the opportunity
00:37:50.920to, Mr. Waters, because you would not respond to my invitations to reach out and tell you about
00:38:00.000all the things that I'd done wrong. And to talk about bringing this to a head, to talk about
00:38:07.200bringing disclosure. I understand how many people I hurt. I understand how angry my partners are and
00:38:16.440how hurt. Unbelievable, like literally unbelievable. Well, I mean, it's it starts with a terrible
00:38:24.840question, right? Did you instead of isn't it true that you never is the way that you would want that
00:38:30.400question to be phrased? But you give him the microphone and the guy's a chameleon on the stand.
00:38:35.780And yes, you hear him recast the question first to give him the room to think and then go back on
00:38:42.580the offensive with the answer. So he's he's very skilled up there. Mm hmm. What what the lawyer did
00:38:48.240for the prosecution instead was he switched to, well, you never told your friends that you never
00:38:53.780told the witnesses who have spoken to you between then and now this story, which was less effective.
00:38:59.660I mean, now the jury's wondering, did he reach out to the prosecution and offer to come clean on all
00:39:07.320of this? Like, sadly, the prosecutors left that as a question in the air. Yeah. And they invited that
00:39:14.340pain through through a poorly phrased question. You should never give room to even, you know,
00:39:19.320expand on the answer to that question. Isn't it true that you never said that before today?
00:39:23.520I mean, you don't give him room to to wax poetic about what he could have done.
00:39:29.380Well, and here's the other thing. Then he tried that the prosecutor was
00:39:32.200floundering, right? Because he's like, oh, God, you know, I wasn't prepared for that
00:39:37.260left, you know, turn. Yeah. So then he goes to isn't it true you're a lawyer? Because the defense
00:39:43.760lawyer, Jim Griffith, appeared on this good HBO documentary called Low Country. There's one out
00:39:49.960right now on Netflix. The two are not to be confused. They're different filmmakers. But the
00:39:54.220Low Country one has been out for a while. And Jim Griffith appeared in it and offered some of Alec
00:39:59.320Murdoch's defense. And he says, isn't it true that your lawyer appeared in a film as recently as
00:40:06.560November 2020, in which he wasn't telling this story of you not napping and actually down at the
00:40:14.020kennels within moments of the murders? And Alec Murdoch's response is basically, oh,
00:40:19.440he gave that interview before November 2020 or whatever the date was. He's like, he actually
00:40:23.940sat for the I mean, what? The prosecutor is unprepared. You have the clip, you know,
00:40:30.540because you've done your homework. When did Jim Griffith sit for that interview? You say,
00:40:34.680isn't it true? Your lawyer said this play. The jury hears it. Why did he say that? That he's
00:40:40.620speaking for you. Right. And the judge actually the defense got up there and said attorney client
00:40:45.600privilege. Right. Like, what did you tell your lawyer? Because he got into like, what hadn't you told
00:40:48.860your lawyer? And they said attorney client privilege. And the judge overruled the objection.
00:40:52.960He was going to let Murdoch testify what he had told the lawyers and the prosecutor backed away.
00:40:59.440He was like, never mind. I think we've gotten the point. No, no, we haven't gotten the point.
00:41:03.420You did not stick the dagger in. You did not twist the dagger. You kind of teased him with the dagger
00:41:07.340and then you walked away. Yeah. And it's just asking that question that you don't really know the
00:41:13.180answer to, or to your point that you're not prepared to follow up on. So if you really thought
00:41:18.540Alex was ever going to take the stand, I mean, you don't want to work off of the script because you
00:41:23.300want to be a little more natural than that, but there should be in your queue, you know, these
00:41:27.840highlights, these points that you must make with, without affording any opportunity to Alex or his
00:41:34.060team to offer any explanation, you know, the changing of the answer from, I went back and took a
00:41:39.200nap for 25 minutes to, uh, maybe I dozed off for a second. Maybe I didn't. He should have been able
00:41:44.840to nail him right there with the video at the moment to drive the point home. And the point is
00:41:50.540that Alex's story changes as he learns more about what the prosecution has in its queue.
00:41:57.080That's exactly right. Now they are having said that through, you know, a series of admissions and
00:42:02.260statements they have gotten out of him. And of course, now we know, thanks to the Snapchat video,
00:42:05.960he was at the murder scene six minutes before we believe, well, now it's shortened to four
00:42:11.600minutes before we believe the murders took place. Cause he says he left, um, he, I guess he was
00:42:16.780there. We know at 44, eight 44, he says he was there for probably two minutes. So that puts it
00:42:22.200eight 46 that he's at the kennels, possibly eight 47. If you add on the seconds that they've got the
00:42:27.220timing on, let's say eight 47. And we believe the murders happened three minutes after that. So
00:42:32.800they've gotten that. And they also have, they can tell from his cell phone when he got up and
00:42:36.400started walking around and they know he took a bunch of steps at nine Oh two. So at most,
00:42:42.260even if you give him two minutes driving back home, you've got, he's back home at eight 50.
00:42:46.680You got 10 minutes inside that house, which is why he had to change to maybe I dozed. Maybe I closed
00:42:52.960my eyes for one minute from, I took the nap for 25 minutes. Like they have him, the prosecution,
00:42:58.920not withstanding the kind of lackluster job on cross, Ronnie, the forensic evidence is pretty
00:43:05.500strong. Yeah, I think it is as well. And, uh, you know, what they've proven more than anything
00:43:11.340else. I apologize. What they've proven more than anything else with the financial crimes is that
00:43:16.260Alex is a monster. Okay. And what we know about monsters is that we don't trust them and that
00:43:24.420they're capable of doing anything. So if he's a monster and he's lied about being at the scene,
00:43:30.540you know, is he guilty of the crime? Ultimately. He tried, the prosecutor tried to zero in on those
00:43:36.980financial crimes and get him to admit. He remembers looking at a client in the eye and lying to him.
00:43:44.240That too did not go very well. That was also an exercise in frustration,
00:43:48.140but we queued up just a bit of it inside 11. Every single one of these, you had to sit down
00:43:55.840and look somebody in the eye and convince them that you were on their side when you were not
00:44:02.800correct. That's what you did in every single one of these. I mean, every time answer my question,
00:44:08.380yes or no. And then you can explain, I'll let you explain all day long. Well, I mean, no,
00:44:12.220sir, that may or may not be true. And Mr. Waters, just to try to get through this quicker.
00:44:15.760I admit. I know you want to get through it quicker, but we're not. So answer the question,
00:44:20.300please. What I admit is that I misled them. I did wrong and that I stole their money. For me to sit
00:44:28.580here and tell you specifically that I remember sitting down and talking with Natasha Thomas,
00:44:33.560I can't tell you that. But what I can tell you, and I can tell you that I didn't do right by
00:44:40.180Natasha Thomas. I took money from Natasha Thomas that didn't belong to me and I was wrong for doing
00:44:46.960that. What'd you make of that one, Ronnie? Yeah. You know, he's, again, his official position,
00:44:56.580there is an indictment for him on that crime and he has pled not guilty. He maintains not guilty
00:45:04.040today. Was that his guilty plea? Now that you're in front of the jury, now that you're trying to garner
00:45:08.840some favor. I mean, I, I think it, I think ultimately that is devastating to him that if
00:45:16.660we can, you know, catalog him to be characterize him to be a skilled liar, how do we trust that in
00:45:24.500the most important lie of his life, the lie about not being at the kennels that he was telling us the
00:45:29.560truth? Honestly, there was no reason for the, do you remember the moment of looking him in the eyes
00:45:35.420in line? You save that for your closing. You can argue that on closing. You don't have to keep
00:45:40.320throwing out all these lines and pulling in zero fish. It's just ineffective. It's kind of
00:45:45.680frustrating. Ronnie, thank you so much for being here. Thank you. To be continued. And the cross
00:45:51.040examination is to be continued this afternoon too. We'll have full coverage for you on Monday.
00:45:54.560We're going to take some letters from the MK mailbag. If you want to mail me, you can at
00:46:06.020Megan, just go email it at M E G Y N at Megan, Kelly.com M E G Y N at M E G Y N K E L L Y.com.
00:46:15.180That's how you reach me. You can also sign up for our American news minute, which only comes out on
00:46:20.420Fridays and is always worth your time. It's all the news of the week in one minute or less.
00:46:24.560Plus some really fun clips and things you might've missed on the show. Everybody really enjoys it.
00:46:28.940So I think you will too. It doesn't cost you a thing. Um, and it keeps you up on the news in a
00:46:33.080very low cost kind of way. Okay. So, so much mail. I think we broke the mailbag record, uh, on the
00:46:40.460Yon Me Park interview, which aired last Friday. If you didn't hear it, please go listen to it. I
00:46:45.560promise you it will change your life. I promise. How, how many people can say that? I promise you it'll
00:46:51.160change your life. It'll change your dinner conversation that night. It'll, you'll want
00:46:55.020to tell everybody you want to share it. I'm telling you, that's how much confidence I have
00:46:58.300in the Yon Me Park interview. Um, I'll just give you a couple of examples. Ellen writes in the
00:47:03.140interview with Ms. Park left me speechless. Her story should be taught in schools. Listening to her
00:47:08.560really made me understand how sick our higher education system in is. I have to work much harder
00:47:13.380and stay true to my convictions. Bill with a similar sentiment saying everyone in the U S should
00:47:19.000hear what it's like to live under an oppressed society. She was from North Korea. She escaped
00:47:23.080and have to endure with this young woman and her mother experienced her appreciation and
00:47:28.060understanding for our country is amazing for someone who's relatively youth new to the United
00:47:32.920States. She can clearly see that we are headed in the wrong direction. Here's just one other
00:47:38.240Lori in Calgary writes in. Wow. Wow. Wow. What a moving interview. I felt a flood of mixed emotions
00:47:44.060throughout it. God has his hand on that young lady. Uh, North America's got to wake up. My gosh.
00:47:50.660So true. So many people wrote in that they were fighting tears or that they did cry.
00:47:55.000Yon Me too is more emotional than she's been in a lot of her interviews. You know what I mean?
00:47:58.700You find a way of sort of packing that trauma up when you've been through so much of it,
00:48:02.060but we had such a beautiful exchange. Uh, she was moved. I was moved. The audience was moved
00:48:06.420worth your time. Okay. Um, last week I was in Vegas for a couple of days. I was doing an event
00:48:11.900out there and I decided to parlay it into a girl's trip. So there's this group of friends
00:48:17.280in all we are seven. And, uh, we met in New York when we were raising our young kids,
00:48:21.940all of our daughters in particular within the same preschool together. And, uh, we call ourselves
00:48:26.760Joe Palooza because we, the first girl's trip we took was to celebrate our friend Joelle
00:48:30.420and her 40th birthday. So Joe Palooza went to Vegas, had a super great time. And two members
00:48:36.520of Joe Palooza came on with me and you met them. Uh, yeah, L, uh, Denbo and, uh, Joelle
00:48:42.400Cosentino. So got some fun feedback on them. Here's, here's some samples. Valerie writes in
00:48:49.320no group of people have more vacation fun than a group of women friends. The best part of the show
00:48:54.420was your message to women on how important it is to have kind, smart,
00:48:58.140and emotionally supportive women in your lives. This is the message we must pass on to our girls.
00:49:03.220Valerie word. And I tell you, as the audience may know, cause I talk about this sometimes
00:49:08.320I'm not great at this. Like I'm, I'm not great at pursuing my friends and I'm actually not even
00:49:13.960that great at being pursued. Like I don't, I'm so busy with my show and my family that my
00:49:20.440friendships fall down first because of me and, uh, my therapist who I love, love, love. He recently
00:49:26.220told me, MK, he said, you've got to make a commitment to do at least three social things
00:49:32.520a week. It doesn't have to be like three dinners out. That's a lot, right? We can't do that. But
00:49:36.740like, maybe it's just like a walk with somebody, or maybe it's a phone conversation even. Or like
00:49:42.440last night I was in the city for the Ben Shapiro yes, uh, interview yesterday. And I'm in the city
00:49:47.080where I used to live. And so I called my friend. I'm like, Hey, do you want to meet for a drink?
00:49:50.740I hadn't made the plan in advance. Sometimes that's risky. You can easily be rejected.
00:49:54.240She's like, sure. She was going out to dinner later with her husband. She said, I'll meet
00:49:57.560you. We had such a nice time. It was, it was like an hour, hour 15 caught up. I felt the
00:50:04.220connection. I felt better. So my, my therapist is right. And you guys should give it a try
00:50:08.480to, um, hear a couple of questions. Uh, Kyla in Tennessee writes in about motherhood. She
00:50:14.340writes, I am currently pregnant with our first child. Congrats, Kyla, a long time listener.
00:50:19.520And I wonder if my son will find your voice more recognizable than my own. Ha ha. In all
00:50:25.740seriousness, any advice for a first time mom? You know what, Kyla, I can tell you that Abby's
00:50:30.520children have had the same problem. And, um, the little one Lillian is just like me.
00:50:37.640It's a blessing and a curse. So good luck with your son. The only piece of advice I have for you as a
00:50:43.280first time mom, um, is don't be too hard on yourself. Many of us struggled with that first
00:50:48.380year or two and didn't particularly love it. And it doesn't mean you're a bad mom. It just means
00:50:52.860you're a regular mom struggling with the regular challenges that come with a new baby. Do not
00:50:57.920believe seventies reference the Brett commercial. That is not what it looks like. It's hard. And they
00:51:03.560spit up on you and they vomit on you and they crap on you, but it's amazing. It's amazing. And when
00:51:09.080they get a little older, it's easier and they're so fun and they're so fulfilling. Don't listen to
00:51:14.040Chelsea Handler. Uh, having a child was a great idea and only gets better. We have covered one
00:51:22.280dysfunctional family today with the Murdochs down in South Carolina. So we're going to keep that theme
00:51:27.780rolling. Standup comedian and host of the very popular weekly podcast, Kill Tony, Tony Hinchcliffe
00:51:34.780joins us now. He is one of America's top rising young comedians, as he likes to point out. And he
00:51:40.480is here to discuss his crazy, crazy upbringing, political correctness, and how we have lost our
00:51:46.400ever loving minds as a society. He knows firsthand. Tony, welcome to the show. Hello, Megan. How are you?
00:51:53.060Hey, I'm good. It's great to have you. Thank you for being here. And thank you for allowing such
00:51:56.600an offensive introduction to you. No, I like it. You, you pretty much nailed it. I love it.
00:52:03.120We're in dysfunctional family. It's I mean, no, the vast majority of people have them. If
00:52:07.500you, all you need to do is get talking with somebody and you realize, even if you think
00:52:10.980you came from a healthy family, you didn't. Oh yeah. Especially in my world, the comedians
00:52:16.600that, uh, that end up hanging out with us and with me are just, I mean, it's just wild. And
00:52:22.900the musicians out here in Austin, Texas, that's another thing. You find that the best rock
00:52:27.000stars, the ones that can make a guitar appear to float in front of them when having a solo
00:52:32.720all have these crazy, crazy backgrounds. No, nothing is normal. None of them that I know
00:52:38.700ever had dinner with their entire family after they all went to their nine to five jobs. There's
00:52:44.340nothing normal about, uh, any of the most creative people that I know, you know, when you think
00:52:50.860exactly, I was just going to say people who go into the entertainment field in general, whether
00:52:54.620it's acting, the theater, whether it's music, comedy, art. Um, yeah, they do tend to have
00:53:02.400a fair amount of like maybe more than their fair share of family damage. And maybe this
00:53:07.280was just the release they needed or what got the creative juices flowing. Like you kind
00:53:10.740of need that. I had a relatively normal upbringing. So I became a lawyer. That's what happens when
00:53:15.680you have a relatively normal, you wind up a lawyer, sadly.
00:53:19.240Yeah. That's a lot of reading books right there. It's not that easy to calm your brain
00:53:24.080and read books when you're, uh, when you're used to whatever we all came from. I mean,
00:53:29.100it's wild, but what's weird in your situation is it correct me if I'm wrong. You know, you
00:53:33.540have like a loving mom, you had loving siblings. It's not like you were beaten. It's there's
00:53:38.360a very weird situation with your dad who, I mean, maybe bigamous is too strong for what he
00:53:45.300was doing, but it was kind of in the bigamy lane.