The Megyn Kelly Show - Fauci Finally Retires, and Idaho Murders Arrest, with Dave Rubin, Harmeet Dhillon, and Viva Frei

00:00:00.560 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.960 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and Happy New Year 2023. Let's go.

00:00:19.680 I hope you all had a great holiday season with your family and your friends.

00:00:23.620 And in a minute, I'm going to be joined by Dave Rubin. We're going to get to all the latest

00:00:27.840 headlines. So much happened. It was a relatively slow news period, but the few things that hit,

00:00:32.160 I definitely want to talk to you guys about and I have some strong thoughts on. Barbara Walters

00:00:36.300 died, age 93. No question, a news legend. But what about her personal legacy? I read her book,

00:00:43.940 Audition, years ago as her autobiography, and it really was life changing for me, but probably

00:00:49.600 not in the way that Barbara Walters thought it might be. So we'll get to that. Later,

00:00:54.940 our legal panel is going to take an in-depth look at the suspect just arrested for the murder

00:00:59.260 of those four University of Idaho students. Oh my God, have you been following this?

00:01:03.700 I'm very interested in this whole thing. And this guy, have you seen a picture of this guy?

00:01:08.280 He looks like mildly attractive. He kind of looks like a regular American kid. But man,

00:01:16.000 the story's starting to come out about him paint a very different picture. And if this guy did,

00:01:20.780 of course, they seem to have very good evidence he did. He's he's a psychopath. I mean, he's he's a

00:01:26.480 deeply disturbed psychopath who was living amongst us, functioning as a, quote, regular

00:01:33.020 American. You know, this is like the story you hear about, like every fourth person is a sociopath.

00:01:38.980 And like this guy's right next to you in your college class or in your bar. And he just murdered

00:01:43.420 four people, according to the authorities. We're going to get into all of that. Plus,

00:01:47.480 an epic story about my Strudwick over the holiday vacation. Oh, my God, my trauma.

00:01:55.080 As the kids would say, I'm triggered. Dave Rubin's here with me to discuss it all. He's

00:01:59.740 the host of the Dave Rubin Report. He joins me now. And let's just say Dave has no idea what he's

00:02:05.060 in for. Dave, Happy New Year. Happy New Year, Megan. What am I in for? And I'm very curious to hear

00:02:11.060 your Barbara Walters take, because I actually devoted my my show to her this morning. We framed the whole

00:02:16.920 show around her life and her work and and her desire, sometimes not fully accomplished desire,

00:02:24.820 but her desire to have difficult conversations. And and if you remember, boy, I'm really getting

00:02:30.860 right into it. But if you remember when she started The View, which I think is now 25 years ago,

00:02:35.600 that the whole point was to have this diverse set of viewpoints and talk about things honestly and

00:02:41.160 decently and do kind of what I think you and I are now trying to do these days. And it ultimately

00:02:46.760 didn't work out exactly the way she wanted. But, you know, it's it's the story of life. Like you try

00:02:51.640 to do something and maybe it's going to work, maybe not. So I'd love to hear what's going on with you

00:02:56.260 and her and how she affected you. I definitely have strong thoughts on the whole thing. So we'll get to

00:03:00.120 that one second. I had this idea for a show. Remember how The View used to begin before it had been

00:03:05.280 totally co-opted by all the far lefties. All right. But stand by I'm Barbara Wawa. So Doug and I and

00:03:12.920 the kids have been going out to Montana for about seven years now for every Christmas. We bought a

00:03:18.100 little cabin. We first we rented and then we bought a little cabin out there. And it's amazing. It's

00:03:23.740 you know, you become one of those people who who becomes annoying about Montana, right? Like I'd never

00:03:28.180 been. Then I went one time. Then I started proselytizing about Montana all the time. And I just love it.

00:03:33.680 It's God's country for sure. So we go out there and there's like a bunch of people who ski in the

00:03:39.000 big sky, Montana area. And they all it's it's basically a private flight, but it's you don't

00:03:45.620 have to pay like the private fees like you would if you were really chartering a private private

00:03:49.760 flight because there's, you know, 150 people on board or I don't know how many people. But anyway,

00:03:53.560 the point is you can get on this flight. It's good because you can fly with your dogs, but you don't

00:03:58.360 have to pay the absurd fees that you would to really fly private. So we found this service and we

00:04:03.660 love it. We do it. So that allows us to bring Strudwick and Thunder with us. Now, Strudwick

00:04:08.300 has never been to Montana. Last year, he was a puppy and we had a dog sitter take care of him

00:04:12.900 because it was too much. This year, like he can do it. But, you know, you've heard the Strudwick

00:04:18.220 stories, Dave. I anticipated that he would be a nightmare in the plane. So I went to his vet

00:04:22.800 and I said, is there anything I can give him to like calm him down? So she gave me this medicine

00:04:26.960 that would make him sleepy. Wow. There was a side effect that was not disclosed.

00:04:33.660 And that was, it gave him the worst gas you have ever had the misfortune to smell in your life.

00:04:41.640 And he was on board the airplane with us. So he, you know, they're SBDs when it comes from a dog.

00:04:48.040 So you don't know when the next one's coming. Just the horrible toxic smell infiltrates your nostrils.

00:04:54.300 Before you know it, you're like, there's no place to go. You can't in the car, you can press down the

00:04:59.060 window. You know, you can get a little momentary reprieve. But in the airplane, you can't light a

00:05:04.880 match. Can't do anything. And it was nonstop. It took four hours and 10 minutes. I counted every

00:05:11.280 single one to get from Connecticut out there to New York out there. And it never let up. It was

00:05:19.620 relentless. And the thing is, Dave, the thing is, like, there's only one time, maybe two times you

00:05:26.740 can be like, it's my dog. My dog has this. I take it that, you know, I take it you bought a round of

00:05:36.700 drinks for everybody on the plane when you landed at the little Montana place.

00:05:42.380 First of all, no, I was too traumatized. My trauma was too severe. And number two,

00:05:46.840 I don't think it would have worked. I really think, like, at some point, you just have to give

00:05:50.520 up and let people think it was you. Like, there's just no way.

00:05:53.960 Did you say anything to anyone on the flight? You must have turned to somebody next to you or in

00:05:58.240 front of you or something, right?

00:05:59.640 We were like this for the visual, for the listening audience. I have my tissues up. I mean,

00:06:04.180 I live, the entire flight was like this with my breathing through my tissues. But they're flimsy.

00:06:09.220 The tissues are so flimsy, they did nothing. I needed a lead blanket. I needed like a couch.

00:06:14.160 I needed something like way more substantial, like the x-ray thing they put on you when you

00:06:17.760 go to get an x-ray, the drape. The fiber wasn't strong enough to withstand the horrific odor I

00:06:25.100 was subjected to. I was in his little gas prison and I couldn't move because I have a picture on

00:06:32.500 the screen from the flight back where I was smart enough to take a picture to document my travails.

00:06:36.640 But on the way out there, the truth is I was at the window seat and Strabo was at my feet

00:06:40.380 and Doug was right next to me with thunder. And so I couldn't get out.

00:06:44.160 I was like, and then my daughter was in front of me. She kept looking back like,

00:06:47.280 mama, I can't save you, honey. I can't save you.

00:06:51.480 Wait, Megan, the real question here is, so what did you do on the flight back? Did you drug him

00:06:56.260 again or did you?

00:06:57.180 So here's the story. So I, the vet had told me, give him the pills before you fly just to make

00:07:05.220 sure he can handle, you know, nothing goes wrong. And I forgot to do that. So if I had done that before

00:07:11.700 we flew, perhaps I would have understood. They create a severe gas issue, but I didn't.

00:07:19.480 So flash forward to the middle of the vacation. I was like, okay, me, was it the, was it the pills

00:07:24.100 or wasn't it the bills? I'm like, I'm going to give him one. Cause the vet said, give him two.

00:07:27.380 So I'm like, I'm going to give him one tonight in my house to see if it's the pills. Well,

00:07:31.960 just so I chose the wrong night because we were having people over and we put the dogs in our

00:07:39.720 bedroom so they wouldn't be bothering everybody, you know, jumping up and like eating all the

00:07:43.620 hors d'oeuvres, all that stuff. Well, Doug goes to open up the door to put somebody's like coat

00:07:48.560 in the, in the bedroom. And she sees the two dogs who are very cute. I mean, that's can't take that

00:07:53.660 away from strut for all of his issues. He's very cute. And she goes over to live. Oh, and she stops

00:07:58.280 dead in her tracks. She's like, the penetration of the hideous odor. And she was too polite to

00:08:06.440 say anything. But then once again, you're like, ah, it's our, it's our gassy dogs in our, in our

00:08:10.980 bed. And then you'll feel inappropriate talking about farts all the time.

00:08:16.240 You know, Megan, I have a question for you, which is, did you ever see the episode of Seinfeld? I think

00:08:22.280 it's season nine where Kramer takes dog medication for a cough he has. I'm wondering, did you think maybe

00:08:28.080 you should take the pills, see how it affected your stomach? And that way the dog wouldn't have

00:08:33.880 to go through this again. No, no. Let me tell you something. No human could produce those odors.

00:08:37.780 Like if you were, if you're a connoisseur of gas, you know, that no humor, no human can like that.

00:08:42.920 That was my best defense. Like a human being could not have made that smell.

00:08:47.560 And then Dave, then Jerry on top of the whole Sunday strut goes to bed one night and he has

00:08:55.420 horrific diarrhea. My husband's walking him outside. He's like, Oh, strut's got diarrhea.

00:08:59.440 I'm like, Oh God. So we put him in his crate, sleeps in a crate. We put it right outside of

00:09:02.660 our room so we can hear him. If he starts crying, needs to go out in the middle of the night.

00:09:06.220 Well, I don't know if we didn't hear it or if it would, if he didn't cry, but it wasn't until

00:09:10.440 like 5am the next day he starts crying, crying, crying. I'm like, okay, I'll take him. And this was

00:09:14.540 like, I was very proud of myself. I've wrote about this in my American news minute. If you subscribe,

00:09:18.620 you'll get the full story comes out on Fridays. Anyway, um, Megan Kelly.com. Um, I was very

00:09:25.200 proud of myself, Dave, cause Doug had taken them out every morning, every morning of the

00:09:29.280 entire vacation. He's such a trooper. He likes, he likes being with him, but he also, it's a little

00:09:33.420 early. So I'm like, I got it tomorrow, honey. It's supposed to be really cold and struts not

00:09:37.440 feeling well. I got it. Mistake 5am. I go out there. The entire crate is covered in dog shit.

00:09:45.620 I mean like liquid dog shit, forgive me, but it was like such a disaster. I'm like,

00:09:49.700 it was all over the floor. It was all over the pad, that stuff. It wasn't salvageable. So I'm

00:09:56.180 like, Oh my God. Okay. I'm going to get Strudwick outside. So, which I do, we can't leave him out

00:10:00.060 there. Like at home, I leave him in our lawn for a little while. It's Montana. There are moose,

00:10:06.380 there are foxes. It's dark. It's scary. You're on the mountain. It's like, no. So he has to come back

00:10:11.680 in. So I put him in the garage. I'm cleaning up the, the area where I keep his crate.

00:10:15.980 And I mean, it is like just a tidal wave of dog crap. And then I look over him in the garage

00:10:23.240 with the doors open. I can see him projectile vomiting. What was projectile at the rear end

00:10:27.380 is now projectile at the front end. I'm like, Oh, I'm like, Oh, poor Strudwick. And also poor me.

00:10:36.860 And also I am a hero for taking this morning and letting Doug sleep. And also how am I ever

00:10:42.640 going to clean this up? I must've used five rolls of paper towels. I'm like the environmentalists

00:10:46.760 are going to track me down. They're going to know I did this. I had mops. I had hoses. I had 409.

00:10:52.300 I, it was, it took me like three hours to get this thing under control. And, um, Oh, finally I put

00:11:00.180 Strudwick in the shower with me. The both of us smelled and, and we're just absolutely disgusting.

00:11:05.640 All of this without waking Doug up, by the way, we managed all without waking Doug up and Doug gets

00:11:09.540 up and he, he says, um, I tell him what happened. He goes, well, it sounds like you two had a lovely

00:11:13.200 spa morning together. I just don't know, Dave. I don't know if I, he, Strudwick will ever return to

00:11:19.300 Montana. You know, I hate the phrase. No good deed goes unpunished because people should try to do

00:11:25.360 good deeds when they can, but that was what you got. You thought I'm going to let Doug rest. He's

00:11:29.820 busting his butt. We're on vacation. I'm going to do the right thing. I'm going to get the dog,

00:11:34.440 blah, blah, blah. And next thing you know, well, there you are. Yeah, that's exactly right.

00:11:39.460 I was neck deep and shit. Um, I will say this, uh, to leave it on a happy note. We had some fun

00:11:45.380 moments. Um, I do my best to plan like fun events when we go away. This is like a two week vacay and

00:11:51.020 it's special. So we do something called wig night, which I highly recommend to everybody.

00:11:56.640 You go on Amazon, you can get such fun wigs for $10. It is, there's me and my hideous,

00:12:02.620 I don't know what's happening in my head there, but it's fun. Um, my husband came up on wig night and

00:12:07.980 he was dressed in the full, that's my brother-in-law can with his pink wig on. And then, uh, my

00:12:13.280 husband came up and sort of took wig night to the less the next level. Cause we have all these

00:12:16.700 costumes. We also do a costume night and, uh, was a Mr. Incredible. So we had all of our friends

00:12:22.200 over. They donned wigs too. There's Doug and his Mr. Incredible suit, just hanging out. But then we

00:12:26.640 also did for the first time, Dave, something I recommend to everybody, which is a talent night.

00:12:30.620 It was the first annual Kelly Brunt talent night. And, um, my, I'll show you, I'll show you pictures

00:12:37.560 of my kids. So my, my daughter Yardley wrote a song that would, she, she was singing it to the

00:12:44.900 Taylor Swift. I can't remember the name of the song, but she's, she wrote and she dressed up in a

00:12:48.520 costume, of course, because we're Kelly Brunt's. Then my son Yates did a comedy routine, Dave,

00:12:55.140 a kid after your own heart. Wow. He, uh, yeah, he did a comedy routine and it was genuinely funny.

00:13:00.240 He didn't tell, he did 10 jokes, two of which were his, I think an eight of which he admitted

00:13:04.120 to stealing, but they were good. They're good ones. That sounds like the usual comedian.

00:13:09.520 My son Thatcher did a rap, which was actually really great and wore this very cute outfit.

00:13:14.360 He was super happy. And then I took the song Brown Eyed Girl and made different lyrics and

00:13:20.940 attempted my pathetic, pathetic guitar playing. I think we have a sample of it.

00:13:26.620 Take a listen and be forgiving.

00:13:28.000 Whatever happened to traffic and subway rats going down to leftist schools and not want you as

00:13:42.000 Democrats. Okay.

00:13:47.240 Stick with what you know, sister. We're all good at one thing, you know?

00:13:50.780 It's so bad.

00:13:53.900 Can I, can I just tell you one bodily function related thing that happened to me over the break

00:13:58.440 since we're doing dog gas? Please make me feel better.

00:14:01.480 So as you know, we have two newborns here and one, one debate that we are constantly having is

00:14:07.880 how much do you have to burp this child after you feed the child? You know, is one good burp enough?

00:14:13.280 Are there two, three burps in there? How long do you have to hold and tap the back and all that?

00:14:18.380 So I believe it was on the 26th. Yeah, it was right after Christmas.

00:14:22.940 I gave Justin a whole bottle. He's drinking like seven ounces now. He's about five months old.

00:14:27.280 He's just an absolute bundle of joy. This kid cannot stop smiling. He's the happiest baby ever.

00:14:31.740 So I feed him and he's looking at me and he's smiling and I'm like, he doesn't need to burp.

00:14:35.560 There's no burp in here. And then I did what will now be the stupidest thing of 2022.

00:14:40.420 I lifted him above my head, like pick him up like this. And he spit up basically the entire bottle

00:14:47.760 directly into my mouth. I mean, directly like, and you know, when it comes out, like there's like

00:14:53.480 almost like milk curds in there, like direct. I mean, I drank half of that. So look, we all got our

00:15:02.340 own problems, you know? Well, you know, you thought you, you had it down just by, from Clyde,

00:15:06.900 right? It's like, you got a dog, you got, you understand what it's like to be surrounded by

00:15:11.060 bodily functions, but then you have one baby and you're like, Oh, next level. And then you have

00:15:15.540 two babies. This is your life now, right? It's like crap, vomit, bodily functions, pee. Like there is

00:15:23.160 no more dignity. It is the utter loss of one's dignity. Megan, there's a lot of pooping and peeing and

00:15:30.100 crying. And now we have kids involved. So how's it going though? Like how overall, I know, of course,

00:15:37.580 yes, that's an issue, but like overall, how overwhelming is it or not at all?

00:15:42.320 No, it really, it's been amazing. So Justin's about five months. He was born on, born on August

00:15:46.700 5th and then two months to the day, uh, Luke arrived. And Justin is like, he really, you'll meet

00:15:52.600 him hopefully soon enough when you're here in Florida. Like he is the smiliest, happiest kid on

00:15:57.340 earth. It's like, I'm just looking at him like, man, he, he is onto a joke, like some sort of cosmic

00:16:02.980 joke that he found out in the womb. He just knows something about the universe. He's just so fun and

00:16:09.020 happy and great Luke. It's only in the last two weeks that he decided to join us here on planet

00:16:14.580 earth. He, he had like two months of like, I just really want to still be in the womb and kind of like

00:16:20.160 looking at everybody kind of like, you know, they don't really look at you directly, but just this kind

00:16:25.400 of like crazy, I think, but just in the last two weeks, he decided, Hey, you guys aren't that bad.

00:16:30.740 I'm here. It really has been really nice. You know, it's exhausting. It really is exhausting.

00:16:36.000 Obviously, you know, we've only, we did go out on new year's, which was like, I think maybe the third

00:16:40.420 time that the two of us went out since August. Um, and it's, it's tiring. And a lot of my clothes are

00:16:47.300 spit up and shirts pulled and this of that. Um, but it's been, it's been really nice. And, uh,

00:16:53.680 I guess there is a point to having kids, right? You know, my friend, um, God rest his soul. Frank

00:16:59.220 Kimball is a good friend of mine in Chicago who passed too soon, but he told me when we had,

00:17:03.580 I think it was Yates was their Yates or yards when I, you know, one of our first two, he said for

00:17:08.480 about 10 years, you're going to basically check yourself out of the social scene and your dearest

00:17:13.680 friends will understand and forgive you. And those who don't get it can F right off. Uh, because it's just,

00:17:19.960 it's, it is a lot of work, but it's worth it. Right. And it's like when, when I'm sure you're

00:17:25.860 feeling is when, when I'm not with them, I miss them. It's not that I don't want a social life and

00:17:29.560 I have a social life, but like those first 10 years in particular, they require a lot of care

00:17:34.600 and feeding. And if you want them to turn out well, you better be around to give it.

00:17:39.460 Well, I'm telling you, I get the, the, you miss them thing, but I am heading to Tallahassee

00:17:44.880 tonight for governor DeSantis's inauguration. And I'm looking forward to a quiet night in a hotel

00:17:49.720 room. More so than you ever dreamed. No offense. No, no. It's like, I always found when they were

00:17:56.400 young, when I left, I'd be like a little teary. It was hard to leave. And then as soon as I sort

00:18:00.440 of got on the bus or the plane or whatever, I was like, ah, it's not so bad. Actually rebounded

00:18:05.020 very quickly. You're drinking your like little mini tequilas in from your pocketbook as you get in

00:18:11.500 the car and you're like, ah, I'll be okay. Don't judge. Okay. That's the perfect segue into

00:18:17.780 Barbara Walters. Okay. So there is no question that this woman was a trailblazer in news and

00:18:24.940 accomplished feats that would never really be matched and could never be matched because she

00:18:29.140 was the first, you know, the first to do so many things with 2020 and 60 minutes and on and on.

00:18:34.120 And she, she made it in a time when women weren't being taken seriously. And when it was very hard

00:18:40.020 to be considered as a serious news person, right? So like, and, and all of us who have come in her

00:18:46.180 wake, Oh, her a debt of gratitude on that front. Um, and it's one of the reasons why my admiration

00:18:52.660 for her, I bought her autobiography audition several years ago. Well, I actually read that book cover to

00:18:59.340 cover. I read every word in it and I was deeply disturbed by what I saw. What I saw was an incredible

00:19:09.240 person professionally. And I would never take a one moment of that away from her, but a woman who

00:19:14.940 completely fell down on the job when it came to her, her mothering. And it was jarring to me,

00:19:22.280 her admissions about her own mothering and also what her book said without her seeming to realize it

00:19:29.880 about her, her, her lane there as a mom, she talked about how she adopted a little girl named,

00:19:36.960 and she named her Jackie after Barbara's sister. And the, the, the daughter never saw her mother.

00:19:44.500 And basically Barbara Walters, according to her own book was barely mothering this child.

00:19:49.560 And then she writes about how the daughter, Oh, so weird, started to have all these behavioral issues.

00:19:54.120 And it was like, well, I sent her off to that boarding school and that didn't work. That was

00:19:57.300 weird. And then that one that didn't work. That was, I was like, hello, I'm channeling my pal,

00:20:01.980 Dr. Laura right now. I mean, she needed one good phone call with Dr. Laura and she would have seen

00:20:06.320 exactly what was going wrong with this kid. And I had my producer, Debbie, Canadian Debbie pulled

00:20:12.760 this for me. Cause there was one line. I remember, um, this is from the book. She talks about Jackie

00:20:17.680 who she adopted in 1968, 1968. And Barbara writes, I telephoned whenever I could. And she's on the road

00:20:26.300 all the time. Like she was with Fidel Castro. She wasn't with Jackie. I telephoned whenever I could.

00:20:32.680 I told Jackie, I missed her and I loved her dearly. And I asked the nanny to turn on the today show

00:20:37.980 before Jackie went off to nursery school. So she could see her mommy in that strange land called

00:20:44.100 China. Then I hung up the phone, felt even lonelier and went back to work. Okay. She's saying here,

00:20:53.680 she felt lonely elsewhere. She admits she never felt lonely. She was alone, but not lonely.

00:20:58.820 She loved her career. She thrived on it. It's the same as Mike Wallace, who was a shitty father

00:21:05.120 to Chris Wallace and Chris and Mike have talked about it and written about it, but a great journalist,

00:21:11.700 you know, and each of us that has a demanding career has to decide for him or herself,

00:21:15.640 just how much to give to each lane. This is a question you're going to have to ask yourself as a

00:21:19.300 new father, as important as your career is, as accomplished as you are all on your own.

00:21:24.340 You did it yourself. Nobody helped you. Nobody gave you a silver spoon. Nobody paved the way for

00:21:28.720 you. You fought viewer by viewer for the success you now have, but now you have something even more

00:21:35.140 important to somethings, right? So like you have to work to find the balance. She never found it.

00:21:40.520 She never found it. And to me, it was a sad story about the sacrifice of what truly matters

00:21:47.460 for, I think the ultimate artifice of fame, money, accolades, and not even, not even that much

00:21:57.100 friendship and beloved colleague, uh, situations because I happen to know, you know, Barbara Walters

00:22:02.840 wasn't that close with a lot of people, even on the job, you know, she was built to do one thing,

00:22:07.140 great interviews and she fucking nailed it. But this other lane is hugely important. And it was

00:22:12.620 neglected. Do you remember in the book, was there any sort of mea culpa at the end? Because usually

00:22:18.820 when people write autobiographies, there's something in that closing, uh, closing chapter to the effect

00:22:24.300 of, you know, I did a lot of these things. This is what you know of me, but here are the things that

00:22:28.320 I made mistakes on. Like, was there any acknowledgement? Well, I'll give you, I'll give you

00:22:31.980 my, my impression in reading the book was she was clueless about just how, how much damage she was

00:22:37.960 inflicting on the child. Um, like I said, like she, you know, I sat her in front of the TV whenever I

00:22:42.980 could, what? That's not, that's not mothering. That's not that that's no substitute. You know,

00:22:49.100 no one made you go adopt this child. You did. Or in other cases you had the child and I'm not,

00:22:54.560 this is not a bash on working moms and dads. I am one. You are one. Um, it's,

00:22:58.980 you can't never be present. You can't never be present. Same thing when people adopt a dog,

00:23:04.620 don't adopt a dog. If you can never be with it or never want to be with like anyway. Um,

00:23:09.920 well, I think it's super interesting, Megan, you know, because you, I think are first off in terms

00:23:15.160 of what you acknowledged at the beginning about how she blazed these trails that, you know,

00:23:19.020 you are one of the people that gets to pick up from just, just from a female perspective. And I don't

00:23:23.520 like to, you know, we don't like to do identity politics. So there's a certain irony there,

00:23:26.860 but the truth is she did do it in a time when, when she was right. So there's that, but you know,

00:23:32.060 you're an interesting case of this because from, from professionally, you know, being a fan of yours

00:23:37.660 before I knew you personally, and now knowing you personally, it's like the way you do your show,

00:23:42.000 where even, even today, where you started with a personal story, your, your love for your kids

00:23:46.080 comes through, whether it's on your show or having dinner with you and your husband and your family,

00:23:51.380 like, it's obvious that you're trying to do those things. Look, you literally moved from where

00:23:56.520 you lived because of your kids and then what the schools were doing to your kids. And then in

00:24:00.740 essence, that became something that you talked about from a political and cultural perspective.

00:24:05.600 So that feels pretty integrated to me. It's something that, as you just said, I'm going to

00:24:09.800 have to now figure out going forward because I have for the last 15 or 20 years, given everything I

00:24:16.140 had to my career, it worked. It's, it's good. It's settled. Uh, but now I have this other thing

00:24:21.820 and I have to figure out how to do that. So I suspect you'll be getting some, uh, calls from me

00:24:26.280 at about 3 AM when, when I'm getting more spit up right in my mouth. And the, the balance is

00:24:31.300 different for everybody. You know what I mean? And maybe some people are more 60% family, 40% work

00:24:35.980 or the, or vice versa. And frankly, most of us have to work. You know, most American families don't have

00:24:40.640 the option of being like, I'm just going to, you know, it's most of us have to work. At least one

00:24:45.140 parent has to work. And usually in most households too, though, you can find a way. Um, and I think,

00:24:50.700 you know, for me, I always laugh when people are like, that was the dumbest move you ever made.

00:24:53.880 It was leaving Fox news. I'm like, you don't know anything about me. You have no idea that not no

00:24:59.400 amount of millions was worth missing my children's entire childhood. No amount, no amount. Um, and,

00:25:06.760 and I'm delighted that I left Fox news, not because I had problems with the people there. I actually

00:25:11.560 loved the people there. And there was definitely a hangover from the whole Roger Ailes situation,

00:25:15.640 but that's the reason I left was because I wanted to see my children. I want to raise my own children

00:25:20.840 and I still wanted to work. And I found an off ramp that seemed to make sense at the time

00:25:25.380 that that was fraught too, but we can get to that. You know, we've already gotten to that

00:25:28.840 at NBC. And anyway, in the end, I, I, I landed it. Um, and Barbara Walters, here's, you ask about

00:25:35.760 regrets. Debbie Canadian, Debbie pulled this soundbite from her in 2014, when she was,

00:25:39.980 she was talking about her daughter, Jackie and her feelings, you know, looking back on her career,

00:25:44.780 take a listen. Do you have any regrets when it comes to Jackie?

00:25:52.880 I look back and I think, I wish I had been with her more. I was so busy with the career. It's the,

00:26:01.420 it's the age old problem. And, and, you know, on your deathbed, are you going to say,

00:26:07.400 I wish I'd spent more time in the office? No, they'll say, I wish I spent more time with my

00:26:12.040 family. And, and I do feel that way. I wish I had spent more time with my Jackie.

00:26:18.280 I'm going to tell you something, Dave. I don't believe that soundbite.

00:26:20.680 I actually don't believe her. I've written, I've read enough of what she's written

00:26:25.760 that I think she prioritized her career because it was what she truly loved. It was what she truly

00:26:32.600 loved more than anything. And I think Barbara Walters was smart enough to know what to say

00:26:37.460 in that interview, but she did not live a life that reflected any of that. You know, honestly,

00:26:44.640 if you listen to some of the Mike Wallace interviews, like with Chris and so on late in his life,

00:26:47.920 he kind of put it, put it out there, you know, I was like, I think Chris would say to explain some

00:26:53.140 of Chris's issues. Um, but I just think, you know, women are under so much pressure to want to be

00:26:59.440 mothers and to be good mothers. And Barbara clearly felt that, but what she really was at heart was a

00:27:05.460 great journalist. And I would submit maybe that's the lane she should have stayed in because this

00:27:09.680 dabbling over in the other lane produced a lot of heartache, um, that I'm sure the child felt.

00:27:15.460 And I don't, I don't know how Barbara felt about it.

00:27:18.340 Well, it's interesting because the mea culpa that she just had there is sort of what I was asking

00:27:22.100 you. Did she have that at the end of the book? But I guess, and this is a little bit of what

00:27:25.940 I think my friend Jordan Peterson or our friend Jordan Peterson would say, which is

00:27:29.860 that, you know, the, the proof sort of would be in the pudding. So you might know something

00:27:33.940 throughout your life, but if you don't act on it, then what do you really believe? I think that's

00:27:38.340 sort of what you're saying there. It's not that it was only at 85 years old that she suddenly realized

00:27:44.020 that maybe she was doing too much in terms of work and not enough at home. She obviously knew

00:27:48.660 it all along the way, which is why she wanted her kid to watch her in China on television,

00:27:53.460 because she knew that there was something missing there. Um, but this is a challenge that as she

00:27:58.100 points out, it's like the age old thing that we all have to deal with on our own way. And what

00:28:02.900 level of our ego can we put aside? And when you've given so much to your career and you get such a reward

00:28:08.740 for it as she did, can you put it aside for the child and all of that? So it's, it's really,

00:28:14.820 it's really complex. And I, again, I say that as somebody that I'm on the front end of that

00:28:18.820 and we'll try to take these lessons to heart to the best of my ability.

00:28:22.660 Yes. Well, she came out, she said, um, hold on a second. I'm trying to find it. But, uh,

00:28:28.100 in any event, she made some comment about, as I pointed out, she, she never felt,

00:28:31.940 she never felt lonely. Oh, here it is. Um, this is via the New York post on sacrifices made for her

00:28:38.980 career. I don't think I was very good at marriage. She said, it may be that my career was just too

00:28:43.860 important. It may have been that I was just a difficult person to be married to. And I just seem to be

00:28:48.820 better alone. I'm not lonely. I'm alone. I will tell you the other impression I had from her book

00:28:55.220 was according to Barbara Walters, virtually every man on earth, ever she ever met, wanted to sleep

00:28:59.220 with her. I mean, that one, that one, Alan Greenspan, Fidel Castro. And maybe it was true,

00:29:06.740 you know, because she was this sort of fierce, you know, strong journalist, female journalist at a time

00:29:11.260 where there weren't very many of them. Um, but I did think that was interesting. And, and I'll,

00:29:15.160 I want to make a point on vanity, um, and like the pictures around your house and Barbara Walters

00:29:20.720 in one second. But before we get to that, let's spend a minute on the view and the legacy there,

00:29:24.440 right? Because that was a great idea for a show. It was a great idea and it was hers. And she wanted

00:29:30.480 a diverse cast to sit around and talk about the day's news events. And that's what they originally

00:29:35.140 had, right? Star Jones. She was fascinating. Um, Elizabeth Hasselbeck, you know, she came out of

00:29:41.360 nowhere and she was really interesting to listen to, um, Joy Behar. And then it just deteriorated

00:29:46.780 into this. It's almost like the way people rip on Bravo's Real Housewives is just being like a sad

00:29:52.780 representation of women, right? Like catty and small. Um, I love it. Don't get me wrong. I think

00:29:58.100 there's a place for that, but they, they're that in news that just these small, empty headed

00:30:05.640 bobbleheads who say a bunch of nonsense, untrue nonsense for a living, their smallest selves,

00:30:12.900 their unresearched opinions in this scripted show. I've been on the view many times. They give you

00:30:17.620 the questions in advance. Hello, that's not journalism. And that I'm sure was never what

00:30:22.440 Barbara Walters wanted it to be. No, it's such a great point. And this is exactly why I did the show

00:30:28.160 the way I did this morning, because her intention with the show was really good that if you remember,

00:30:33.480 you sort of quoted it at the top, that, that intro of the show from 25 years ago, I put these women

00:30:38.880 together from these different walks of life so that we could sit at a table and do all this stuff

00:30:42.940 that in some ways, what I was trying to frame on my show this morning was that that really is what

00:30:47.480 America is all about, that we all come from different walks of life. We are going to have

00:30:51.760 wildly differences, a wildly different opinions on politics and culture and everything else. But if we

00:30:57.680 can't sit together and work some of this stuff out and then hopefully agree to disagree, if nothing

00:31:02.460 else, then we're in a lot of trouble. And she did do it for a long time. You know, you may remember

00:31:07.120 the clip. Do you remember this from, uh, I think 2012 when Bill O'Reilly was on the show and they

00:31:12.660 were talking about, uh, nine 11 and Bill O'Reilly made some comments about Muslims that actually I

00:31:18.360 thought were pretty bad. He used, you know, he was sort of blaming all Muslims for what happened,

00:31:22.580 which of course you can only blame the people that did something, not, not in a group of people.

00:31:26.680 But if you remember it, when it went viral, of course, it was one of the first things to go

00:31:30.220 viral. Uh, whoopi and joy just got up and walked away in the middle of the interview on live

00:31:35.380 television, which was such a horrific example of how you were supposed to conduct a show that was

00:31:40.400 about diverse viewpoints. But to Barbara's credit, the second they walk off the stage,

00:31:46.960 she immediately says without hesitation, she basically says, uh, that is not how we should do

00:31:53.380 things. That is not how my colleagues should behave. We have to be able to have these conversations.

00:31:58.540 And to your point, unfortunately, and it really exact, uh, I would say escalated once she left

00:32:04.920 her day-to-day duties there, it devolved into everything that was the reverse of what she wanted

00:32:10.420 to create. It devolved into sort of empty headed talking point leftist craziness, but the way it was

00:32:17.180 set up originally and the way it was originally with Meredith Vieira and some of the other people that you

00:32:22.260 mentioned, it was diverse and good and decent. I think, I think somewhere around the Rosie O'Donnell

00:32:27.720 years with Elizabeth and when wokeness was just starting to bubble up, that's when it really went

00:32:32.600 crazy. And now it's, now it's a complete caricature of itself, right? It's like an SNL version of

00:32:37.700 itself, but her intentions there were good. And I would hope that, you know, in terms of the legacy

00:32:43.220 of her, that that would be what people focus on a little bit because she tried, you know, like the

00:32:47.960 best you can do is try and maybe she made mistakes along the way. I don't know everything about

00:32:51.740 staffing or everything else. She was, I mean, when it comes to talented interviewers, she, like,

00:32:58.880 honestly, you'd be hard pressed to find somebody who was better than Barbara Walters. And I know her

00:33:03.260 longtime executive producer, Bill Getty, who I've worked with a bit in my own career,

00:33:07.420 an incredibly talented guy. He once told me that she would, in preparing her questions for whether

00:33:14.280 it was a politician or one of those most fascinating things she would do, she'd ask everybody,

00:33:19.060 what, what do you want to know about Clint Eastwood? Like whoever it was, what would you

00:33:23.760 want to ask him? And she'd write them all down on index cards and she'd have a, like a huge stack

00:33:28.640 of them. And then she'd go through and she'd find the ones that she thought sort of rose to the top,

00:33:32.200 but she was, you know, she wasn't too proud to ask the commoner, um, what do you think is

00:33:37.120 interesting? Right? She didn't need to just have some executive producer tell her. She wanted to know

00:33:41.100 what everybody thought was interesting. And she put a lot of work into all those interviews to make them

00:33:45.600 so interesting. And she got the best, the biggest and best gets, by the way, before I said 60 minutes

00:33:50.180 and I meant 2020, which is the show that she was on for a long time with our pal, John Stossel.

00:33:54.600 Um, so, you know, all of that hard work was reflected in the work product. And I respect that

00:33:59.880 too. You know, there's so many people today who want to be like big stars because they're pretty or,

00:34:04.800 you know, some stupid other reason they have huge asses. Um, Barbara Walters worked.

00:34:11.020 Hey, hey, enough about me. Come on. She did not work. All right. I'm going to,

00:34:17.500 I'm going to leave it on this as a tease because when we come back, I want to talk about Anthony

00:34:20.740 Fauci. And the thing about, um, Barbara Walters is, you know, I, I would venture to guess if you

00:34:26.340 went to Barbara Walters, New York city apartment, you would find pictures of her with Fidel and with

00:34:30.040 every president, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was just thinking, not that I'm any better than anybody

00:34:33.740 that I'm about to talk about, but if you come here, you'd be hard pressed to find a picture of me

00:34:38.140 with any of these public figures. Um, I, that's just not how I am. If you come here,

00:34:42.300 you'll see pictures of my Nana and my mom and my kids and my dad, but you're not going to see

00:34:46.720 pictures of me with all these politicians who I went and interviewed or the presidential debates

00:34:51.000 because I don't give a shit about that stuff. It's, it's my job. It's important to do, but that

00:34:54.720 doesn't make me feel like, Oh, a memory I want to hold onto, right? Like it, and whatever. I,

00:35:01.300 there are too many people in the business who are in it for ego. And I'm not, that's not necessarily

00:35:07.500 Barbara, but it's a 100% become the man we know as Anthony Fauci. And he's about to retire. There's

00:35:14.260 a detail that just came out about him. And that's where I'm going to pick it up after a very quick

00:35:19.040 break. Don't go away. Dave Rubin stays with us. We'll be right back. So Dave, Anthony Fauci, I said

00:35:27.100 the end of this month, cause I I'm confused. We're actually now in January and he's officially

00:35:31.540 retiring as of December 31st. So on his way out, he gives a, an interview. Of course, you may have

00:35:38.300 a man frigging loves to see himself in the press. And that's my point to the New York times, which

00:35:43.300 goes to his home office, his home and sits down with him in his home office and writes the walls

00:35:49.100 in Dr. Anthony S. Fauci's home office are adorned with portraits of care to take a guess.

00:35:56.760 I know, I know. I read it. Him. Of course, him. And it's not even him with Fidel Castro,

00:36:03.860 like you'd probably see in Barbara's house. It's just him. It's portraits of him drawn and painted

00:36:11.560 by some of his many fans. He seems a little uncomfortable with people knowing about the

00:36:17.660 pictures. He said previously when they were captured on camera, the quote far right attacked

00:36:23.120 him as an egomaniac. Well, I'm not far right, Dr. Fauci. And I definitely think you are an

00:36:28.280 egomaniac and that you're pathetic for adorning your walls with pictures of yourself. And by

00:36:33.100 the way, your side of the aisle said this about Trump about 10,000 times when they got

00:36:37.760 to look at his office and all of his magazine covers of himself on its walls.

00:36:41.940 I mean, Fauci literally said when you criticize me, you are criticizing science.

00:36:47.660 That is right out of Chancellor Palpatine in Star Wars. I am the Senate. You know, it's funny.

00:36:54.080 I have one, I was thinking when we went to commercial break, I was like, wait a minute,

00:36:56.900 how many pictures of me do I have around my house? We have one picture of me in the entire house. It

00:37:02.860 is in the bathroom of my studio. And it's, you can barely see me. It's from a distance. I'm on stage

00:37:08.500 at the Grand Ole Opry in Nashville. That's the only picture we have of me here. But, you know,

00:37:15.100 one of the things we were, we were talking about kids earlier. Uh, and one of the things that's

00:37:18.860 been really good for me is, you know, you know, this Megan, like your Megan Kelly, wherever you

00:37:22.900 go, people know that Megan Kelly is there your day. You do the Megan Kelly show. It's often about

00:37:28.120 Megan Kelly. People like you, they watch you, they want you to sign things. They want to take

00:37:32.540 pictures with you. It's about Megan all the time. It's about Dave all the time. One of the things that

00:37:37.040 I have really found in these couple of months with kids is I love the fact that some portion of my

00:37:42.620 life, a pretty significant portion is less about me. That's not to denigrate the work that I've done

00:37:48.920 or doing a show that has my name in it or anything else or any of the things that you've done, but

00:37:53.320 you know, one of the trappings, and I think this is what Barbara was sort of talking about earlier.

00:37:57.800 One of the trappings of doing something for yourself is then it can almost become too much

00:38:02.700 about you. And for somebody like Anthony Fauci to have just pictures of himself all over that,

00:38:09.340 that's what you want to walk into your office and look at. It sounds so crazy to me. Like pick,

00:38:16.400 how about a picture of put, if you like basketball, put Michael Jordan, maybe your kids or, or just a

00:38:21.820 nice, beautiful painting that would make sense. But you, you need to stare at yourself all the time.

00:38:27.720 I'm pretty sure there's a Greek story about this. Honestly, it's why like I feel blessed to

00:38:34.420 have the mother I have. My mother would never let my ego get out of control like that ever.

00:38:41.420 She would always keep it in check with some gratuitous insults, which I laugh about, but

00:38:45.780 honestly, they're kind of important. Like you, you do have to build your kid up, but then not too big.

00:38:50.700 Like you have to keep your kid humble too, and recognize that he's not God's gift.

00:38:55.060 Anthony Fauci thinks he's God's gift. And that led to a lot of serious problems that we're all

00:39:02.200 still dealing with today. Some of which are reflected in the Twitter file reporting

00:39:07.700 that David Zweig has been doing now as a result of Elon's trick, trick, trickle of information out

00:39:13.520 of Twitter. And that leads me to my next point, which actually relates to you as well.

00:39:17.280 You know, we've been getting the Twitter files, the suppression of Trump, the shadow banning of

00:39:23.160 certain conservatives, you know, depressing certain conservatives tweets so that they

00:39:27.400 wouldn't be well seen and so on. And now we get the Twitter file reveal on COVID and, you know,

00:39:34.360 the coordination that that Twitter was doing with the White House, which considered itself very angry

00:39:38.500 about the misinformation coming out there. Now we learn from David Zweig's reporting

00:39:42.460 misinformation just meant you disagreed with the CDC. And that bots programmed by some twit

00:39:49.680 at Twitter who knows absolutely nothing and 100 percent does not have a medical degree

00:39:54.680 would then suppress legitimate, thoughtful tweets from people like Harvard medical doctor Martin

00:40:02.620 Kulldorff, one of the great Barrington Declaration doctors, who would say, if you've already had COVID,

00:40:08.420 you actually don't need the vaccine, particularly not if you're a child.

00:40:11.840 Suppressed misinformation. The bots at Twitter, again, programmed by some 20 year old,

00:40:19.680 know nothing, suppress a Harvard MD. That's what we're learning. You could say it's no big deal.

00:40:26.520 You could say it's old information because we suspected it or we saw some of it firsthand.

00:40:31.060 But this is an outrageous story. And it was it was being done at the behest of the White House,

00:40:38.460 which had its hands all in there like the doctor who goes in with the gloves all in there in Twitter's

00:40:44.580 business and in our private slash public conversations. Can I can I tell you what I'm

00:40:50.520 more concerned about related to this, because I know as you're telling me this, you're not surprised

00:40:54.660 by this. And very few members of your audience are surprised by this because you've been talking

00:40:58.960 about this sort of thing. Same thing on my show. My audience is not shocked by the Twitter files,

00:41:03.420 nor am I shocked because we kind of knew. Right. Like we all kind of knew. Let's think back to what

00:41:09.120 it's about a year and a half ago. Jen Psaki doing her White House press secretary thing when she said

00:41:14.820 and I quote, we flag. That's what she said. We flag posts for these tech companies. Well,

00:41:23.700 if you flag posts as the administration now that we can get lost in the word flag and they love a lot

00:41:29.320 of this because we get lost in the words. But if you're someone at the administration or you're at

00:41:34.240 the FBI or the CIA and you call Facebook or Twitter and you don't say to them, hey, you got to take this

00:41:39.780 down. But you say, hey, we see this stuff on your site. We want you to take a look at it. It's the

00:41:44.680 ultimate mafia move. What does the mafia guy do in any I mean, go to Goodfellas, go to Sopranos,

00:41:50.720 go to Casino, go to any whatever you love. Right. Go to Godfather. The guy doesn't walk in the first

00:41:55.340 day and shoot everybody. There's a couple chats beforehand about how he's going to run his

00:42:00.000 business or how he's going to pay you back or whatever it might be. And that in essence is how

00:42:04.540 the government is acting. So you take a phone call from someone at the government and then you

00:42:10.580 start walking around Twitter going, guys, you know, we've been having these calls and now we've

00:42:13.920 seen all the emails and then they just start doing it on your behest. So this is an absolute assault

00:42:20.140 on the first amendment, which of course is about government silencing you. But if the government

00:42:25.020 is using the levers of power, if it's using pressure because they don't want to be broken

00:42:30.660 up or looked at in other ways or thought that they're going to be taken down, you know, the

00:42:34.900 people at Twitter, well, then the government is stepping on your free speech. So what I'm really

00:42:39.760 worried about, though, related to all of this, and I'd love your thoughts on this, Megan, is

00:42:44.160 what it seems to me we're at right now is a complete divergence in reality. So you have a certain

00:42:49.860 amount of people that see the Twitter files, they've been paying attention and they're awake as

00:42:54.380 opposed to woke and they're seeing what reality is. But I don't know that it's affecting anyone

00:42:59.180 on the other side. CNN, New York Times, NBC, they're all ignoring all of this stuff. And

00:43:05.120 whether we like it or not, a certain set of Americans still pay attention to them. So who

00:43:09.440 has the Twitter files actually woken up? Maybe it's maybe it's sort of given us more fuel,

00:43:14.740 right? And our viewers more fuel. But is it getting to the other people? If Chuck Todd can

00:43:20.040 do a meet the press every Sunday and never address any of it, then then what is happening

00:43:26.260 to society? Are we just are we just veering completely in different ways?

00:43:30.680 Yes, it's not getting to them. However.

00:43:34.680 You know, the term gaslighting is overused, but it does work, you know, when you know something's

00:43:39.620 true. But all these people keep looking at you saying it's not true. It's not true. You're crazy.

00:43:43.840 You're crazy. The people on our side who knew this was happening, but didn't have like proof

00:43:48.320 positive in some of these cases have now. I mean, it's just been the gaslighting's over.

00:43:53.200 The proof is right there. The new owner of Twitter has given it up. You know, thank God he's not one

00:44:00.300 of them. And if you think it's just happening at Twitter, you're not paying attention. It's 100%

00:44:06.020 happening at Google and Facebook and YouTube and all these places. So, you know, people who are

00:44:12.660 paying attention need to be on alert even more and not and not allow themselves to be gaslit by the

00:44:17.900 other side with its great intentions and their moral authority because they lie and then they

00:44:23.300 don't admit it when the proof comes out that it was as we said all along. You know, I'm not shocked

00:44:29.200 by it, but I am newly incensed. I read I read this. Yeah. OK, I'm newly incensed. Here's David's why

00:44:37.280 putting out it was an exchange Martin Kaldorf had that I just referenced where he's like, no,

00:44:41.540 you don't need the vaccine if you've already had COVID and especially not if you're a child.

00:44:45.460 And there's internal Twitter correspondence responding. This is from March of 2021,

00:44:49.500 right after the day after 10 days after. Hi, team. This is internal to internal Twitter

00:44:54.800 correspondence about Kaldorf sending a heads up that we will take action on at Martin Kaldorf,

00:45:00.600 a professor at Harvard Medical School for violating our COVID-19 misinformation policy,

00:45:05.240 specifically by sharing false information regarding the efficacy of the COVID-19 vaccines,

00:45:09.540 which goes against CDC guidelines. Again, all he wrote, somebody said, do I need to take the

00:45:14.580 vaccine? I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but what about younger age groups? And Kaldorf had said, no,

00:45:21.340 thinking everyone must be vaccinated is as scientifically flawed as thinking nobody should.

00:45:26.260 COVID vaccines are important for older, high risk people and their caregivers. Those with prior

00:45:30.840 natural infection do not need it, nor children. That's what they took action against. This is

00:45:37.240 absolutely some moron who doesn't have an MD. By the way, Zweig reports that half these decisions

00:45:42.440 were made in the Philippines where they were outsourcing this stuff to. I mean, okay, so some

00:45:48.040 telemarketer type in the Philippines who's supposed to be moderating content gets to censor.

00:45:53.240 A Harvard MD like Martin Kaldorf who specializes in this. That's how whacked this stuff is.

00:45:58.980 And I had to ask you about it, Dave, because I've used you as an example before on the show.

00:46:02.460 You yourself, you yourself got a foul of the Twitter content. You probably were dealing with

00:46:08.780 some Philippine bot who censored you. When you tweeted, let me give it to the audience,

00:46:14.260 July 2021, ahead of your time. You tweeted, they want a federal vaccine mandate for vaccines,

00:46:19.680 which are clearly not working as promised just weeks ago. People are getting and transmitting COVID

00:46:25.500 despite the vax. Plus, now they're prepping us for booster shots. A sane society would take a pause.

00:46:32.120 We do not live in a sane society. And they locked your account saying you violated their policy

00:46:39.380 on spreading misleading and potentially harmful information related to COVID.

00:46:45.680 You know what's interesting about that tweet? The last line in there where I said the thing about

00:46:49.940 a sane society, I purposely put that in there because I knew I was saying something that was

00:46:55.080 going to get me as close to suspended as possible. Not because it wasn't true, but because I understood

00:47:00.200 the nature of the game. So I wanted to say something like, hey, how about we all pause

00:47:03.960 for a moment? It was my way of kind of winking to the Twitter people like, don't suspend me for this.

00:47:08.260 I'm just saying, let's think about what's going on here. Now, what's interesting also is that that

00:47:12.240 was July of 2021. Now, that's obviously over a year and a half ago at this point. So it's hard to

00:47:16.780 remember the chronology of how all this nonsense happened. But it was literally, I think it was about

00:47:22.800 six weeks after Joe Biden had said, if you get the COVID vaccine, you will not get nor transmit COVID.

00:47:29.460 Then we immediately found out that that wasn't true. And then they suddenly started talking about

00:47:34.440 mandates and they suddenly started talking about boosters. So it was obvious to me that I was saying

00:47:39.340 the truth. What's also interesting about this is I was told by Twitter when I finally got reinstated

00:47:45.520 that it was an accident, but it was obviously not an accident. This is what they were up to.

00:47:51.280 And this is why, Megan, we got to keep, you know, doling out those red pills in 2023.

00:47:57.620 Honestly, people need to pay attention and be careful. Be careful about where you,

00:48:01.780 the sources from which you consume news, because you can get spun and re-spun and told you're a

00:48:06.840 terrible person just for asking legitimate questions. I will say, thank God, Elon took over Twitter.

00:48:12.740 Um, I, it's not perfect, but it's much better and it's going to get even better than it is now.

00:48:17.160 And we'll learn again, keep your eye on all the others because it's not just Twitter.

00:48:21.000 Dave Rubin, good luck with those beautiful babies. And thanks for coming on. Happy new year.

00:48:26.180 Love you, Megan. Happy new year.

00:48:28.140 Love you too, my friend. See you soon. All right. We're going to be back to cover this Idaho

00:48:31.860 murder suspects arrest. We've got all the latest details. We've been diving deep into this.

00:48:36.920 And don't forget in the meantime, folks, you can find the Megan Kelly show live on Sirius XM

00:48:41.360 triumph channel one 11 every weekday at noon East and the full video show and clips by subscribing

00:48:46.660 to our YouTube channel, youtube.com slash Megan Kelly. We're almost over. Like we need a couple

00:48:52.840 more thousand to go over the, what is it? 600,000 mark, seven, seven, 700,000 mark. Help us get

00:48:59.460 there. Go to youtube.com slash Megan Kelly. Uh, and if you prefer an audio podcast, go ahead,

00:49:03.920 follow and download on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts

00:49:07.140 for free. There, you're going to find our full archives with more than 450 shows. Now we'll be

00:49:12.540 right back. A major, major break in the stabbing deaths of four Idaho college students early Friday

00:49:22.100 morning across the country. Authorities arrested a 28 year old man charging him with four counts of

00:49:28.520 murder. The supporting affidavit has yet has yet to be unsealed, but it will be. We know the suspect

00:49:34.260 was a student at nearby Washington state university, less than 10 miles away pursuing a doctorate. Of

00:49:40.600 course, wait for it in criminal justice. Joining me now, our first legal panel of 2023. Harmeet

00:49:47.560 Dillon is managing partner at the Dillon law group and a candidate for RNC chair right now. And also

00:49:53.460 David Freyheit height. He's a lawyer and a YouTuber better known to his audience as a Viva Fry. Uh, both

00:49:59.380 of you, welcome back to the show and happy new year. Happy new year, Megan. Happy new year, everybody.

00:50:04.060 Thank God they arrested somebody. And I think it sounds like they have their guy. Thank God

00:50:08.260 this happened back on November 12th into the wee hours of November 13th. Um, where in Idaho,

00:50:15.620 these four college students who had arrived back home after a night of, you know, partying,

00:50:20.140 being out, being normal college students were stabbed to death in their home. One after the other,

00:50:27.040 no one heard anything. There were others in the, in the same house who were not harmed,

00:50:31.840 who didn't hear anything. And for seven weeks now, we've been saying, where are the leads?

00:50:38.700 Where is the arrest? Who could have possibly done this? You know, speculating the, the local police

00:50:43.900 have been taking, you know, a lot of criticism. Uh, the town is called Moscow, Moscow, Idaho. Um,

00:50:49.280 a lot, a lot of criticism. It turns out now for some time, unspecified how long the, the FBI

00:50:54.640 has been following this guy. His name is Brian Koberger, 28 years old. And here's what we know

00:51:01.700 about him. He was a doctoral candidate in criminal justice at Washington state university. Again,

00:51:08.240 it's very close to the murder scene right across the border there. Um, he was, uh, okay. He had

00:51:15.500 completed his first semester as a PhD student. He had previously gone to school at DeSales university,

00:51:21.740 a Catholic school in central Pennsylvania, where he's from parents live in the Poconos, um, had

00:51:27.480 attained a graduate degree, a master's degree in criminal justice in 2022. He was on the Dean's

00:51:32.360 list in spring of 2020. Uh, he had gotten a bachelor's degree from the same school earlier. He had been

00:51:39.340 at community college, I think in the same region, studying more of a technical career and then

00:51:43.500 switched over to criminal justice. And during his time as an undergrad, they believe he posted

00:51:50.160 this, um, survey online as a quote, student investigator in criminal justice, seeking

00:51:55.860 participation in a research project to understand how emotions and psychological traits influence

00:52:01.240 decision-making when committing a crime. The thing is very creepy. They've now taken it down

00:52:05.240 the university to sales. Um, but you know, it's what frankly, any criminal justice student might want

00:52:11.700 to know, you know, like how did you commit your crime? How did you feel when you committed your

00:52:15.480 crime? How did you gain access to the site? It's just weird now looking at it, knowing what we know.

00:52:21.320 So Harmeet, I'll start with you on what you think about how they found this guy and what your spidey

00:52:27.580 senses as a lawyer are telling you about whether they have the right person.

00:52:31.980 Well, thank you, Megan, for asking me. So first of all, I'll say I'm a voracious consumer of both

00:52:36.860 crime fiction and true crime information. And so, you know, I've been doing my own speculation

00:52:42.360 about how they're going to find this person. And I think what we've seen in commentary online is,

00:52:46.540 and on television is pretty much consistent with what the police are hinting. Now there's some

00:52:50.860 law in Idaho regarding what they can say about a suspect prior to his initial appearance. And so,

00:52:56.940 you know, they're keeping their information kind of tight, but what's, what's come out is that they

00:53:01.160 used genetic anthropology, that's one term for it, but basically using information gained from genetics

00:53:08.460 that are in either a government database or a private database that will identify a relative

00:53:16.180 of somebody whose genetic material is found at the scene of a crime. So this man has been described as

00:53:22.860 wearing gloves in public in the weeks after the alleged murder, the murders that he allegedly occurred,

00:53:28.940 suggesting perhaps that he was trying to conceal or eliminate possibility of the collection of his

00:53:34.780 DNA. Now that's the circumstantial evidence, but also reported by the police in their press release

00:53:42.700 or their press statements on Friday was the fact that there were defensive wounds on some of the

00:53:49.020 victims, which would suggest in turn DNA, you know, we've all learned about how they can get DNA from

00:53:54.720 under the fingernails of a victim. And so that could be a way that they got some genetic material that

00:54:00.380 then they were able to triangulate through a database of some relative of his and then pin down

00:54:06.400 the fact that he lives in the area. So they might've picked up, let's say 20 relatives or 10 relatives and

00:54:11.120 then figure out who's in Idaho, who's in the neighborhood. And then they, they sort of,

00:54:15.280 they sort of zeroed in on him and then began to do further investigation, probably used a subpoena

00:54:20.560 to identify his cell phone pings and cell phone records. And then went from there to at least

00:54:26.160 pin him down to being somebody who was either stalking these victims or very close to the scene

00:54:30.980 of the crime. Just as an anecdote, you know, my husband went to college in rural Idaho and not

00:54:39.080 everywhere there has great coverage, but it is a college town. So I would assume in the immediate

00:54:43.720 vicinity of where these murders occurred, there was good cell phone coverage. So that would have helped

00:54:47.880 identify him as a, at least a lot of circumstantial evidence. So that, and that that's very helpful.

00:54:53.360 And that genetic DNA stuff, however you phrase it, genealogy is fascinating. That's the CC Moore

00:55:00.220 lane of crime fighting. This woman, I interviewed her while I was on NBC and that she was, if memory

00:55:06.700 serves, forgive me, but I think she was a housewife who was just really interested in crime. And then one

00:55:11.100 thing led to another and she started to take deep dives on her own into figuring out sort of the

00:55:15.700 genetic tree. If you could get one DNA sample, like how me just pointed out, like you go to this

00:55:20.960 crime scene, this guy was not in the DNA system, this Brian, um, Koberger, but somebody related to

00:55:27.640 him probably apparently was, and whether it's 23 and me or ancestry.com or this other, this other

00:55:33.120 website that she was using at the time I interviewed her where the results from those things might be

00:55:37.580 uploaded by somebody voluntarily, right? Like not everybody's a criminal. A lot of people go on those

00:55:42.400 sites and say, I genuinely want to connect with long lost relatives or other people. So they're

00:55:46.140 happy to upload their DNA. So if your brother's in there, your cousin's in there, it doesn't matter

00:55:51.060 that you're not in there because if they get a hit at a crime scene of your DNA, it's going to show a

00:55:57.260 match to the one they do have in their system. And then she does the genetic tree all around your

00:56:02.780 brother. And then you pop up. And if you happen to be living 10 miles from the crime scene,

00:56:07.780 um, there it's on, it's game on. And it also so happens Viva that he drove the same kind of car

00:56:15.420 that had been detected by the FBI early on in this case, you know, cause they check every

00:56:20.740 surveillance camera in the vicinity as driving away from the crime scene in the wee hours of the

00:56:25.860 morning and boom, they're off to the races. It's, it's amazing. Like my mother, uh, brought me up on

00:56:34.000 the, you know, true crime stuff, serial killers. I don't know why she was into it, but she was into

00:56:37.980 it. Every woman is. Well, it's a weird thing. I was just refreshing my memory on the, uh, the dating

00:56:43.820 game killer, the guy who turned out to be a serial killer who presented himself as one of the

00:56:47.920 candidates and reading into it at the time, you know, they didn't have background checks. They

00:56:52.180 didn't have all of this surveillance that they have today. So once upon a time, you could understand

00:56:56.380 it was easier to get away with these types of crimes for a longer period of time. Uh, but I I'm

00:57:00.700 operating on presumption of innocence. You know, this situation does, uh, you know, make people

00:57:06.180 sensitive to the fact that when there are high profile crimes that terrorize a neighborhood,

00:57:10.040 sometimes, you know, people just want to find somebody, anybody to pacify the community, to make

00:57:14.960 law enforcement look like they're working and doing their job. So bear in mind, historically, this is

00:57:20.080 how people get framed and wrongly convicted just to pacify the panic of a neighborhood who needs

00:57:25.460 to find some resolution to a horrific crime. But you know, you look at this in today's day

00:57:31.360 and age, there's no way to get away with these things. If you're going to do them, there's

00:57:35.480 either 24 seven cameras outside there's 24 seven surveillance on your own phone, uh, DNA, this

00:57:42.200 idea that people have given their DNA willingly to these companies. And now you can find people

00:57:47.040 who are not in there. It's fascinating. Can't, um, you know, I say, can't wait eager to see what

00:57:51.740 the actual, uh, evidence is above and beyond circumstantial hypothesizing above and beyond

00:57:57.520 just demonizing someone who fits sort of a dexter type, uh, stereotype of what you would

00:58:03.980 anticipate the killer would look like, uh, above and beyond all that superficial stuff.

00:58:08.340 Very curious to see what the concrete evidence is that led to this surveillance of the individual

00:58:12.700 and, and finally charges. Definitely. Cause there, as Harmi pointed out, they're holding the cards

00:58:16.820 close to the vest because this Idaho law, but we'll get, we will get the facts. We'll get the facts

00:58:20.720 and supporting affidavit. So Harmi, the thing is about the DNA. So let's say you have, it may have

00:58:25.000 been CC more or somebody like her who drew the tree around the DNA. They did find that didn't match.

00:58:30.860 They didn't know whose it was, but they knew it was related to somebody in their system. And then

00:58:34.500 she does the family tree and they try to figure out maybe it's this guy. Maybe it's not. They follow

00:58:38.720 him. They get a subpoena for the cell phone records of this guy. Sure enough, they reportedly may have

00:58:43.700 been pinging at the crime scene on the night in question or right near, um, then they do the,

00:58:49.360 they're like, he's got the Hyundai Electra that we've been, whatever Lantra that we've been looking

00:58:53.480 for. He happens to drive it. He left the area and went home to the Poconos right after the murders

00:58:59.360 to be with mom and dad, you know, lots of stuff. But you and I both know at that point,

00:59:04.120 at that point they get his DNA. They're surveilling him. They get a Coke can he threw out. They get a

00:59:10.760 tissue, they get a piece of gum. You know, anybody who's listening to one week of Datelines

00:59:14.960 knows what comes next. So they probably have an actual match now between the DNA found at that

00:59:21.680 crime scene and this guy. Right. I mean, you're not going to be able to arrest this guy without

00:59:26.740 convincing a judge that there's probable cause. So it isn't just circumstantial evidence. And he

00:59:31.080 seems like a creepy killer type. Uh, there has to have been some hard evidence in the duration of

00:59:36.000 time. So it's like, I remember at the beginning of this case, the Moscow, Idaho police came into

00:59:41.180 criticism from, um, you know, sort of other police departments or the FBI for quote unquote sloppy

00:59:47.720 handling of the evidence. I don't know what they were talking about exactly, but I would assume that

00:59:52.660 in examining the bodies immediately following the murders, they would have taken all the samples from

00:59:57.140 the defensive, uh, areas that, that they could find. And so they would have had that genetic material

01:00:02.380 and began working on it, but it would take weeks to then subpoena information, check numerous

01:00:08.980 databases. In addition to the commercial databases mentioned, of course, a relative of this

01:00:13.260 gentleman could have been, um, arrested for crime or had his genetic material taken in a rape case or

01:00:20.480 something like that. So there would be, and, and, and there are some federal databases, but then

01:00:25.760 there's a lot of information that isn't uploaded to these databases. So, you know, that's one of the

01:00:31.460 complaints why we had a killer, serial killer in California who wasn't caught for 30 years or

01:00:36.500 something because of this police departments for slow and uploading the genetic material. So I think

01:00:42.500 they probably spent the last several weeks, um, doing their due diligence surveillance, uh, getting

01:00:48.620 some, uh, like you said, possibly a corroborative evidence from his home. I, we don't know now whether

01:00:55.140 they went into his home, but you know, homes are rife with a genetic material, hair, uh, saliva,

01:01:00.620 toothbrushes, and things like that. So, uh, with the confidence with which they're projecting,

01:01:04.860 they have him as their killer. Uh, it sounds like they have a scientific case. That's pretty

01:01:09.520 watertight. That's right. Cause that's the next step would be matching the actual DNA of the killer

01:01:14.460 with this guy, Brian Koberger. And I would mark money dollars to donuts. They've done that. That's

01:01:20.680 what led to the final arrest. And they, I mean, if, if that's a match, he's toast, they've got him.

01:01:25.540 That's, that's, that stuff can't be faked. I mean, we're past the age where you can say,

01:01:29.360 well, DNA, it's questionable. I mean, that's, he's done if they've got that, um, why he did it.

01:01:36.300 What, what was the motivation? What makes a killer like this, a guy 28 years old who,

01:01:41.460 according to the reports have, has never been in trouble before. Viva, this is everybody's worst

01:01:45.760 nightmare. That's your neighbor. You know, the guy you go to college with the guy you served at the

01:01:50.440 restaurant who seems perfectly nice. I've got to say like, he looks kind of like a regular American

01:01:56.100 guy. He's got some somewhat pleasant face. You know, my point is only just like, he doesn't look

01:02:02.280 like a deranged killer, right? When you see this guy's profile and now they're interviewing friends

01:02:07.040 of his and they're saying things like, oh, well he changed. He changed a lot. Well, you know, he used

01:02:13.600 to be normal. We hung out with him and then he changed and he got very aggressive. You always hear

01:02:16.920 people say this because nobody wants to be like, yeah, it's my best friend. I didn't detect a thing.

01:02:22.140 You know, like they're always like, ah, yeah, he changed. And then we broke up with him and we

01:02:25.380 weren't, we're friends with him anymore. I don't know how much stock to put into that, but it is

01:02:29.100 shilling that he was apparently a high functioning grownup in our society and then committed these

01:02:36.840 crimes. But most, I say serial killers for lack of a better word, they don't, people think evil has

01:02:43.060 to somehow look evil and rarely, you know, does it. You look up historical serial killers by and

01:02:49.360 large look normal. And when you're basing it only on one snapshot of a mugshot or one, you know,

01:02:55.080 candid photo taken from the past so they can show you who it is. You know, they don't all look like

01:02:58.660 Charles Manson after he's been in jail and tattooed a swastika on his forehead. That being said,

01:03:05.040 once people have a suspect, they go back and reassess everything with hindsight and say, oh yeah,

01:03:10.740 he made some odd comments here and there. He posted some odd things. Okay. I think by and

01:03:16.740 large, everybody who's existed on social media could have something that could be taken to make

01:03:22.300 them look bad in the present or explain bad behavior in the present. I think what's most

01:03:26.280 suspicious about all of this is that he didn't have much of a social media footprint. I got to say,

01:03:30.840 it might be my own upbringing, my own culture, but I am far more suspicious of people who do not have

01:03:36.040 a big social media footprint or none at all than I am of people who have one and have said, you know,

01:03:41.720 a and not a on given days. So yeah, what fascinates people too, this is how they look normal. They look,

01:03:48.780 you know, like your neighbor and we never know what our neighbors are up to behind closed doors.

01:03:53.100 And that is part of the terror of living in a society with people, but they're going to go

01:03:57.840 scrutinize this guy's social media, personal history, meet friends and family, and they'll find what

01:04:02.540 they need to find in order to explain this away. But I just hope, you know, I take for granted law

01:04:08.000 enforcement has an airtight case, but it would look, you know, you would not want people retrospectively

01:04:14.480 going back to explain how someone is guilty in real time. And this person ends up not being the

01:04:18.340 right person. Yeah. Stay open minded. And his lawyer is so far denying, denying guilt, as you would

01:04:23.380 expect on behalf of the client. I mean, just a couple of things. And when it comes to the evidence

01:04:27.380 or the testimonials, I guess I should say, there's one former aunt. So I guess she was related to the

01:04:34.460 family by marriage. And now that marriage dissolved, who says he was like crazy when it came to

01:04:39.460 veganism. He used to be obese in high school and was allegedly bullied. And but honestly, like I

01:04:44.760 mentioned it because it's like, well, everybody was bullied. You don't turn into somebody who sneaks

01:04:49.080 into an apartment in the middle of the night and kills four people, stabbing them to death. OK, but

01:04:52.840 anyway, it's a detail. Then he lost the weight and became, quote, aggressively vegan and apparently

01:04:58.720 wouldn't even eat food, according to the New York Post, which interviewed her that was cooked on a

01:05:02.780 skillet that had meat cooked on it. Again, this does not make you a serial killer. It's just a

01:05:07.800 detail. It's color, as we say. One guy gave an interview to the Daily Beast saying that they were

01:05:13.480 buddies. But then this alleged killer pulled the guy's girlfriend aside and said, I have a bottle.

01:05:19.160 Do you want to go out for the night? Like just the two of us. And the girl's like, you're weird. No,

01:05:24.000 I'm dating your friend. Hello. And that ended the friendship. And the woman didn't go with him.

01:05:28.740 There are some reports that won't be surprised. He was a failure with women. He was making

01:05:33.700 inappropriate comments at bars. He was in some bars sort of notes as like problematic when it comes

01:05:40.140 to the way he's approaching girls. That would not surprise me one bit, Harmeet.

01:05:44.640 Yeah. I mean, obviously, many of us are highly suspicious of aggressive vegans,

01:05:49.740 but that doesn't make you a serial killer in and of itself. But but look, the the you know,

01:05:55.300 all joking aside, the fact pattern of repeatedly aggressively approaching women in an abrupt,

01:06:00.480 awkward way. There are numerous instances of that. So that suggests a lack of social skills. And

01:06:06.260 you often do see that in profiles of serial killers is that they they they lack empathy. They lack

01:06:12.680 the ability to kind of sense how other people are going to react to them. And so it fits the the the

01:06:20.540 profile. You know, another way that you see a lot of these mass shooters and high schools are what they

01:06:26.600 call them in cells, involuntary celibates. And so this guy fits those patterns. But even without that,

01:06:33.200 you got the evidence and you have him at the scene of the crime. That's really more than enough to

01:06:38.520 to convict him. Mm hmm. It was I think this is NBC reporting Viva that he memorably harassed female

01:06:47.540 staff at the Seven Siren Brewing Company near his hometown. The bar owners telling NBC that employees

01:06:53.280 labeled him in their system as a guy who, quote, makes creepy comments, end quote, and said he once

01:06:58.980 called a staffer a bitch for spurning his advances. According to the staffers notes, he would have two

01:07:06.120 or three beers quoting now and then just get a little too comfortable, end quote. The behavior was so upsetting.

01:07:11.780 The brewery owner approached his patron about it. Koberger denied the behavior, but never showed up at the

01:07:18.300 bar again. Again, it reports that he would become aggressive when he was referred to as overweight back

01:07:25.980 when I guess he actually was. And these are some of the details coming out about him. One other detail. I found

01:07:32.920 this podcast called Four Killed for What, which is actually interesting. This guy's been following this from the

01:07:38.700 start, and he interviewed a forensic psychologist, Kate Walinga. And Kate Walinga pointed out on the podcast that

01:07:45.740 these murders were committed eight days before the suspect's birthday. And that to her, that would be

01:07:51.520 potentially significant as a forensic psychologist, because it could be, you know, anything from a present to

01:07:59.200 oneself to a deadline. Like I'm about to turn 28 and it's time to do the thing that I've been preparing

01:08:06.480 to do. But she, she saw that as very significant. She did not take as serious his reported statement

01:08:15.380 to authorities asking, was anyone else arrested? She was like, I dismiss that. Um, and she, well,

01:08:25.260 I guess, so those are the sort of the main points that the birthday was very telling to her.

01:08:29.780 This is going to, to some extent, setting aside hard evidence, pinging on the phone, video surveillance,

01:08:35.540 et cetera, DNA evidence. This is going to turn into one of those situations where people want to assess the poker

01:08:41.260 playing of the poker player who wins the tournament. So they're going to read into certain things and read away

01:08:45.180 certain things. It's all, I mean, it's interesting. I'm sure there are authorities who are more authorities or more

01:08:51.400 credible authorities than others, but then you have people interpreting his facial expression in the

01:08:55.820 mugshot, interpreting that question he asked, was anyone else arrested? As if to say, uh, you know,

01:09:00.580 that that's indicative of something. We're going to have a lot of interpretation of people now dealing

01:09:05.640 with the prime suspect, uh, people reading things in and, and, and, and on both ends, hard evidence is

01:09:11.840 what's going to be most interesting in all of this. Uh, the pontificating, it's going to be, it's going to be

01:09:15.820 fun for, uh, you know, interpreting behavior a la Dexter type analyzing, but the hard evidence, I, I,

01:09:23.480 I'm like, I want to see what, uh, what they have, like Harmeet says, and, and how strong or how weak

01:09:28.620 it is. But the fact that they were tailing this guy for four or five days before making the arrest

01:09:32.500 and the FBI was on him and perhaps he even knew that it's going to be interesting to see what's in

01:09:37.640 the, uh, call it the affidavit for probable cause. I think it'd be fascinating to see us in that.

01:09:42.420 If I can add, they may have already asked him for a DNA sample. So he may have been aware that,

01:09:47.180 uh, he was a prime suspect. So, you know, he, he would have been making some preparations to

01:09:51.540 stage his arrest and otherwise. So who knows? I predict they got the DNA off of his trash or off

01:09:56.480 of his Coke can or something. That's how they do it. That's how they did it in golden state too.

01:10:00.080 Uh, they don't need your permission. If it's something you've discarded publicly, um, they,

01:10:05.100 here's the thing. So, I mean, you use the word fun. It is, it is sort of a hobby to investigate

01:10:10.240 crime for a lot of people, but I really think there's a reason we do that. We're looking for

01:10:14.880 the thing that distinguishes the case from our own lifestyle, right? We're looking for the thing

01:10:19.140 that tells us it won't happen to me or anyone else I love because we won't make that mistake

01:10:23.820 or we'll recognize this trait in somebody and get away from him. And by the way, on this subject,

01:10:29.780 layers, layers, layers between you and your children and potential bad guys, you know,

01:10:33.900 locks on the doors, locks on the windows, security system, get a dog. Like there were,

01:10:38.100 there were layers that could have been placed between these students. And trust me, I get it.

01:10:42.200 I was a college student who didn't have any of those layers. Um, but now I would recommend much

01:10:47.040 different for my kids. And just remember that like the more layers, the more difficult it is for an

01:10:51.460 intruder, a bad guy to get access to you or your children, the better. Um, but we look at this guy

01:10:57.200 and we think, what were the signs? Would I know it if I saw it? And the fact that he comes from,

01:11:01.480 I don't know, reportedly a normal family. I haven't seen that much about them. They say

01:11:06.320 little's known about them. His father, Michael, his mother, Marianne live in the home that he was

01:11:10.780 believed to be staying in when he was arrested. Um, I saw one report suggesting, I think the father

01:11:15.340 may have gone out and driven back with him from Washington state to the Poconos suggesting a

01:11:19.680 somewhat, I don't know, potentially close relationship to older sisters, Anna, Melissa,

01:11:24.160 Melissa 31 is a therapist in New Jersey. My God, can you imagine being her client, like her patient

01:11:29.580 going in there and speaking to this woman who, you know, is going through this trauma of her own.

01:11:33.480 Um, they wrote a poem, his sister, Melissa and his mother, Marianne after Uvalde and the poem reads

01:11:41.540 as follows bereft of their laughter. This is the, the mass school murder in, um, Uvalde bereft of

01:11:47.780 their laughter. There's now not a sound as we lower our children into the ground, small hands and feet

01:11:53.880 buried six feet deep into the earth of the world that failed them. The world that failed them.

01:12:01.160 I mean, those words, they read very differently knowing now that their son, their, their brother

01:12:07.700 may have intentionally gone in there and committed these four murders of, you know, they were not

01:12:12.220 children, but they were at best young adults with their whole lives in front of them. Like what,

01:12:17.020 what creates a person so normal? She becomes a therapist and she writes these empathetic poems

01:12:22.000 about Uvalde and in the very same family, the brother allegedly went and did this army, you know?

01:12:29.460 Yeah. I mean, it's, it's shocking. So many of these stories are like that where it's a normal

01:12:34.860 family. Some of them are, you know, what we call broken homes. And some of them are people who seem

01:12:40.060 very normal. I think there is evil in this world and sociopaths and psychopaths, uh, are born into this

01:12:48.380 world. And like you said, we all have to protect ourselves. I mean, I live in San Francisco, you get

01:12:52.720 a couple of death threats and suddenly you act differently, but you know, Moscow, Idaho, college

01:12:57.320 students haven't had that experience of life. And I don't know that anyone of them could have possibly

01:13:01.980 expected this. It was a really shocking crime. It wasn't an urban area, but this does remind all of

01:13:06.800 us that evil is everywhere. Hmm. My God, we don't really want that reminder, but we need it.

01:13:12.240 I don't know. I think that one thing I really hope is that if he did this, he will answer the

01:13:19.560 same questions he posted in his little survey Viva, you know, so we could learn like what makes

01:13:25.260 somebody who's high functioning, getting his PhD turn into a serial killer who, who attacks for

01:13:30.780 innocence in the dead of night and manages to pull off this crime somehow. I mean, it's not like a

01:13:36.460 suffocation. He stabbed them to death one after the other in the same house with other people.

01:13:42.720 And, you know, as far as we can tell, alerted, nobody didn't draw the attention of anybody.

01:13:48.600 Didn't you know, nobody was calling 911. Nobody caught him right until the authorities got involved.

01:13:53.280 Like what? What makes you snap? What makes you tick? What? How long have you wanted to do it?

01:13:57.380 These are all the things we want to know. Well, and it might be a case of manic bipolar mental

01:14:02.980 illness, whatever. Not that it changes anything at some point in time. Uh, you know, whether or not

01:14:06.860 there's evil in the world or, uh, brains that have developed, uh, in inhumane manners, doesn't

01:14:13.340 really change much as far as the punishment goes. But when you talk about layers, Megan, I mean,

01:14:17.500 this is going to be, people don't like the debate. This is going to be the ultimate reminder that

01:14:22.920 the ultimate layer is that second amendment of the United States constitution, not to turn it into

01:14:27.260 a gun debate whatsoever. Uh, it, it highlights the fact that police security, not always there

01:14:35.820 and not that, you know, you can have the debate in the, on the extent to which the second amendment

01:14:40.160 ought to be exercised, but, um, the old expression that it's the ultimate equalizer for young women

01:14:46.980 who are physically oftentimes less strong than young men. This is the ultimate reminder at some

01:14:53.140 point self-defense becomes self-preservation and it becomes a fundamental right, uh, that people have

01:14:58.420 to factor into their daily life. Yes. And honestly, like get a dog. That is the first thing the security

01:15:05.540 guards told me when I had a serious security threat in my life. It's a simple, you know, thing. And

01:15:11.460 especially helps if you love dogs, but I mean, that's the best alarm system you have. And it's a massive

01:15:17.100 deterrent. They've done studies with criminals. Like the one house has a scary sounding dog barking and

01:15:23.040 the other house doesn't guess which one they're going to target. They don't want to deal with it

01:15:26.680 either. So don't be an easy victim, you know? And by the way, just as not for nothing, but they also

01:15:30.780 say that God forbid you ever get attacked or somebody's trying to grab you. Don't be an easy

01:15:33.700 victim. Don't comply. They've got the gun on you. Just get in the car quietly. No fight. Then and

01:15:38.060 there scream, be a difficult victim. They don't like difficult victims be as difficult as possible.

01:15:43.080 Harmeet Viva's mention of the mental state races. The next obvious question because they have

01:15:47.800 that his lawyer has asked for a mental evaluation, right? Right. And you know, you know where they're

01:15:51.740 going with that? Well, it would be actually malpractice not to do that, in my opinion.

01:15:55.680 And who knows whether that's something that the client had already set up or suggested. But if I

01:16:00.120 were the lawyer, I would protect myself against a malpractice claim. And also, frankly, even if I

01:16:05.860 were the prosecutor in a case like this, I might recommend it to avoid later claims that the suspect's

01:16:11.900 constitutional rights are not being honored to the T. And so I don't think there's going to be any

01:16:17.060 resistance to that. But I do not know Idaho law to a fine degree, but different states have

01:16:24.860 different laws with respect to what is a depraved indifference and, you know, how the mental state

01:16:30.060 plays into that. And so this is a mass murder. And almost certainly that's what would be called

01:16:35.380 special circumstances under the laws of most states that allow for a death penalty. But all of that,

01:16:41.480 anytime you have a potential death penalty case, you're going to have to make sure that all

01:16:46.060 the T's are crossed and all the I's are dotted on both sides to protect the lawyers as well as to

01:16:52.640 protect the ultimate verdict in the case. I don't know, Viva. I don't see much of a,

01:16:58.520 you know, not guilty by reason of insanity defense available based on the facts we've seen so far.

01:17:05.060 You know, no one's coming out saying he was a lunatic. They're like, yeah, he was aggressive. He was

01:17:08.800 kind of a bully. He was a weird vegan. He made some inappropriate comments to women. He was getting

01:17:13.500 his PhD. He was living, you know, as far as I can tell, what I've read in the reports, an upstanding

01:17:19.160 quote unquote life. He was there. I don't see how they're going to get away with not guilty by reason

01:17:25.480 of insanity here. But I feel like if they've got that DNA inside the apartment of his, that's the

01:17:31.240 only thing available to them. I don't know the impact of not insanity and harm it. You'll correct

01:17:38.160 me if I'm wrong on this, but that that only changes the punishment. You don't walk free after this.

01:17:42.480 So it's only death penalty. But bottom line, I mean, look, I think by definition, when you kill

01:17:50.300 to kill someone, you have to be mentally unwell. You have to have mental issues to kill someone

01:17:56.280 for pleasure, for convenience, you know, not in the utmost of self-defense. But then it just goes

01:18:02.660 to the question of liability. It's not going to change anything in this. If he did this and it's him,

01:18:07.080 it's it's whatever the the most extreme sanction is. I don't know what the penalty if the death

01:18:13.800 penalty is available to this. But that's it. It's just going to be a question of making the

01:18:18.480 evidence, though, beyond a reasonable doubt. But if you if you can't prove that he as the

01:18:23.400 defense lawyer, if you assert he did not know the difference between right and wrong, like like

01:18:27.380 John Hinckley Jr., which just did a special on him. He shot Reagan. That's what you have to prove.

01:18:31.780 He did not know the difference between right and wrong. It's not going to be. He wore gloves

01:18:35.560 reportedly, as you point out, Harmeet, for weeks after the fact, the murder weapon, the knife has

01:18:40.520 never been found. So he took pains to discard of the murder weapon. This is this is not the behavior

01:18:45.900 of somebody who had no idea what he had done. Yeah. Morally or legally wrong. That's right.

01:18:52.540 There's there appears to obviously be premeditation and a person who's certainly largely in touch with

01:18:56.940 his faculties, not that he was like schizophrenic or had a dissociative mental disorder. But we're

01:19:03.780 going to find out a lot more. We're just speculating at this point. But it seems like a cold blooded

01:19:07.840 killer from the facts that we see so far. Looks like he's going to be extradited from the Poconos

01:19:13.020 where he was arrested back to Idaho. Looks like he's not going to challenge that. And as soon as

01:19:18.840 that happens, we'll start to get more and more facts. Stand by Harmeet and Viva, because there's a lot

01:19:23.120 to discuss. Harmeet's running for RNC chair. That's interesting. We'll ask her about that

01:19:26.900 and about some of the Trump latest legal challenges, some of which Harmeet has had a role in. So we'll

01:19:32.420 get to all of that when we pick it up right after this quick, quick break. Don't go away.

01:19:39.140 Harmeet, let me ask you a political question before we get back to our legal cases.

01:19:42.960 You're running for RNC chair. Ronna McDaniel used to be Ronna Romney McDaniel is now the chair and

01:19:52.380 she wants the job back. Mike Lindell also wants the job of the MyPillow fame. Washington Times

01:19:57.400 editorial on December 29th reads as follows. There are 168 voters, two committee members,

01:20:03.020 and then the state chairman from each state and six territories to win requires an outright majority

01:20:08.680 of 85 votes. At the moment, the incumbent chairperson, Ronna McDaniel, appears to have

01:20:13.420 secured more than 100 votes, which would mean she's got this in the bag. Is that not correct?

01:20:19.780 Well, actually, after I saw that editorial, I called up the reporter. I think it's I think

01:20:25.000 that's John Gizzi's piece, if I'm not mistaken. But in any event, whoever it was, I think I corrected

01:20:31.400 them. Actually, a number of people who are on Ronna's list have endorsed me publicly. Some of them

01:20:37.520 can't vote in the election. They're termed out chairs and Ronna knows this. So I don't think it's

01:20:41.900 really appropriate to continue to list those names in her column. So I actually think that this is a very

01:20:46.560 competitive race. I'm picking up steam. A number of members of Congress, including from the freshman

01:20:51.200 class, have endorsed me in the past week. And I've had numerous conversations with major donors of the

01:20:55.680 party who are demanding change as well. And so we have a little bit under four weeks to go. And we

01:21:01.380 haven't had a leadership challenge at the RNC for 12 years, which is about a little longer than the

01:21:06.500 time since Mitch McConnell has been challenged effectively in the United States Senate. And I think

01:21:10.860 that we can all see the results of that ossification and lack of challenge and change is that everybody's

01:21:16.120 very comfortable with the status quo, which means Republicans aren't winning elections. And I'm a

01:21:19.960 volunteer in politics. I have been since I was a teenager. And I'm not comfortable being a volunteer

01:21:24.840 devoting dozens of hours a week sometimes to this cause of electing Republicans and Republicans not

01:21:30.700 winning. You don't get an A for effort in politics. And the claims that we knocked more doors, we turned out

01:21:35.620 more voters. We barely won back the House. That doesn't work. We have a country to save. And so

01:21:40.280 that's why I'm in this. And I very much hope I'm going to be able to pull it off on January 27th.

01:21:44.440 I really feel like we, the citizens, win either way in this situation. I know you want to be RNC

01:21:48.520 chair, but if you win, that's good for America. And if you don't win, that's good for America because

01:21:52.840 you're so effective in your current job. You've been fighting so many important legal battles.

01:21:57.460 You know, I personally am torn because I like I don't want you removed from the legal sphere

01:22:01.020 to focus on this. But I think new blood in politics is always welcome. And, you know,

01:22:05.220 the RNC, the Republicans definitely have their work cut out for them going into this next election

01:22:10.560 cycle. So anyway, thank you for talking about it. And we'll continue to follow it. One more

01:22:15.400 question for you, and then we'll bring in Viva again. But Carrie Lake is one of the clients you

01:22:19.280 represented in her claims that the what we know, the Arizona election was not handled well, but she's

01:22:25.580 claiming fraud. And that was just dismissed. Saturday, December 24th, Christmas Eve, after a two day

01:22:30.620 trial, Maricopa County Superior Judge Peter Thompson ruled against her in her lawsuit challenging the

01:22:35.520 election. He had already dismissed eight of the 10 counts listed in her lawsuit before trial. He

01:22:39.420 allowed two to proceed, including that election officials purposely caused those ballot printer

01:22:43.100 malfunctions and didn't follow the ballot chain of custody properly. In any event, he wanted her to

01:22:49.740 prove the election fraud. He found that she did not do it by clearing convincing evidence of widespread

01:22:54.180 misconduct. She says she's going to appeal. But you and I both know once it goes up,

01:22:57.840 all you can appeal on is questions of law, not questions of fact like he found. And she's going

01:23:04.320 to argue he found the wrong way on the facts, which doesn't get you anywhere in a court of

01:23:08.400 appeals. So do you think it's done effectively? Well, let me say this. I was on the ground in the

01:23:13.780 war room with with all the Republican candidates and in in the Scottsdale area, Carrie Lake, Blake

01:23:19.620 Masters, Abe Hamaday. They were all part of this joint effort. The RNC lawyers as well, who are my good

01:23:24.840 friends were there. And overall, what I can say is the irregularities were gross and shocking. And

01:23:30.800 they were, you know, somewhat similar to the scale of irregularities in the 2020 Maricopa County

01:23:34.980 election. And so the question is raised, why wasn't a lawsuit filed after that election in 2020, like

01:23:41.160 in Arizona and throughout the country and other states with irregularities? Why wasn't it cleaned up?

01:23:46.440 That's one of the leadership issues that I think is lacking at the RNC.

01:23:49.420 And secondly, what I've found in this process, and you know, my firm is not playing a leading role in

01:23:55.100 either of these cases, Amade's or the other, but behind the scenes, we helped with gathering evidence

01:23:59.400 and interviewing. I think we probably had six lawyers working around the clock to get declarations of

01:24:04.100 evidence from hundreds of witnesses, over 100 witnesses in this case. And you can have the best

01:24:09.680 facts, but Arizona law is basically stacked against a challenge. Like, for example, you file the

01:24:15.520 challenge, several days are wasted on a motion to dismiss, which is frivolous, in my opinion,

01:24:20.540 by the state or by the by the so called winning candidate. And then you're left with as much as

01:24:25.200 a few hours in the case of Abe Hamaday, six hours to count ballots, you cannot count a statewide,

01:24:32.240 you cannot conduct a statewide challenge of a statutory recount in six hours or a few hours. It's ludicrous.

01:24:40.400 And so I think that I hope that the Arizona legislature changes these laws to number one,

01:24:46.960 never allow a secretary of state to preside over her own election, where she's part of the election.

01:24:52.820 And secondly, you must have the ability for the confidence of the voters, I'm not even talking

01:24:57.960 about the candidates who I represent, but for voters to have confidence and then turn out to elections,

01:25:03.560 they must be able to feel like there's a meaningful challenge. And, and what's interesting is

01:25:08.460 that if you voted before election day, a campaign could meaningfully challenge an undervote, i.e.,

01:25:15.540 why are they saying that my candidate wasn't filled out on the ballot when right here, there's a mark next

01:25:19.620 to their name. But if they vote on election day, a different rule applies, it's impossible to contest

01:25:25.720 an undercount, which is bizarre. So I do think that a appeal on the legal matter of inconsistencies in

01:25:32.980 the law may very well be availing if that's the appeal that's brought. But, you know, I'm just

01:25:38.700 going to say what a mess in Arizona and Arizona is a necessary state for Republicans to win back the

01:25:43.780 White House. So if I were the chair, I would be carpet bombing the place with lawsuits to make sure

01:25:49.700 that this never happens again. This is a good point. Now that we see more and more, you know,

01:25:54.280 election lawsuits, people are kicking the tires a lot harder than they ever did in the wake of the

01:25:58.440 Trump thing. What's the downside in having election laws and procedures for challenges

01:26:04.900 revisited and just make sure that it's set up such that any evidence that's available can be found and

01:26:10.400 can be offered. You can have a legitimate time to explore within reason. We understand we can't go

01:26:15.380 on forever. It can't be like a normal litigation three years later. You know, necessarily, it's never

01:26:20.300 going to be perfect given the what's at issue. Right. Who's going to take the office when the post is

01:26:24.380 Yeah. I mean, there are these we can do better. There are these fake requirements like you can

01:26:28.300 only have one team of three lawyers in a county. I mean, Maricopa County has more than 50 percent of

01:26:34.740 the population of Arizona. You're going to that's that's that's absurd. And so what Democrats have

01:26:40.180 done very effectively going back to when they started big money raising and really reformed their

01:26:44.480 election system in 2004 with George Soros's leadership is they do litigation through a whole host

01:26:51.520 of pseudo nonprofits and real nonprofits that are really just set up to do election litigation

01:26:56.020 and then some real nonprofits and double ACP and ACLU. They very heavily do that. So they've been

01:27:00.940 doing it and we have not answered them until the last couple of years. And in the last couple of

01:27:05.720 years, we're woefully underfunded compared to them. So this needs to be job number one is not just

01:27:11.800 defending lawsuits that Democrats use to downgrade our election integrity, but filing lawsuits just like I

01:27:17.580 described to make sure that if there is a disputed election, which happens quite a bit in America,

01:27:22.080 that the voters at the end of the day feel confidence that the correct result was had.

01:27:27.880 If I'm a Republican voter in Arizona, I'm looking at this evidence. The evidence is real.

01:27:32.240 The massive failures on Election Day were visible to everybody in Maricopa County. And I'm saying,

01:27:36.220 why should I bother to vote? Because there's no justice. You're right about no real hearing about this.

01:27:41.340 You're definitely right about the fact that Carrie Lake's opponent was running the election system as

01:27:44.780 Secretary of State, which is just that absolutely shit. That should change. I mean, they talk about

01:27:48.420 undermining faith in the election, just the appearance of impropriety. And she was banking

01:27:52.640 on nothing going wrong, even accidentally. And even if what happened in Maricopa County with the

01:27:56.840 ballots not being printed in dark enough ink was it was a genuine incident of negligence as opposed

01:28:02.280 to intentionality, as Carrie Lake implies and suggests, too bad on Katie Hobbs because she's the

01:28:08.520 one who was responsible for it, you know, but ultimately it won't be too bad for Katie Hobbs. It'll be too

01:28:12.280 bad for Carrie Lake, who Katie's due to be sworn in on Thursday. Go ahead, Viva.

01:28:16.580 Yeah, Megan, I was going to say, you know, on appeal, they don't they don't retry questions of

01:28:21.400 fact, but only questions of law. You know, I do my weekly live streams with Robert Barnes and

01:28:26.300 the idea that he's floating around or that has he has suggested and I greatly respect his opinion

01:28:31.800 is that as a matter of law, you know, the Judge Thompson set up a sort of a three part

01:28:36.920 conjunctive that Carrie Lake had to prove that there was intentional interference, that the that

01:28:44.220 the intentional interference was intentional to affect the outcome and that it did, in fact,

01:28:48.520 affect the outcome. What Robert and I discussed on our weekly streams is that perhaps there's an

01:28:53.760 error in law where once certain improprieties have been evidenced, as they were in this particular

01:28:59.040 case, printing up the ballots on the wrong size, not being read the day of that Bill Gates from

01:29:03.860 Maricopa County came out on election day with the video saying we have problems. The ballots are not

01:29:08.940 being read. You could put them in box number three or you can go find somewhere else to vote,

01:29:13.300 suggesting that there were long lineups. Once you have evidence of improprieties, that in law,

01:29:19.500 it was an error in law to require that they be proven to be intentional, intentional for the specific

01:29:24.300 purposes of impacting the election and that they did, in fact, impact the election. So you'll see on the

01:29:30.340 appeal. I'm not optimistic any more than I was optimistic about the challenge itself. But the

01:29:36.020 evidence that was adduced for the world to see when you have the recorder himself saying or I forget

01:29:41.100 which witness it was for Maricopa County saying there were two hour lineups. It was a mess. It was

01:29:47.420 chaos. And people are just supposed to say, OK, fine. But it wasn't intentional chaos. So we just

01:29:52.440 were incompetent, but we're not intentionally incompetent. And coming from two political players,

01:29:57.940 Richard and Bill Gates, who, in fact, from my understanding, funded anti-MAGA candidate PACs.

01:30:05.740 I mean, this reeks on its face. The only question is, as a matter of fact, are people going to

01:30:11.460 find this objectionable to demand answers? Or as a matter of law, is a court of appeal going to say,

01:30:16.780 all right, you didn't prove it was intentional for the purposes of intentionally impacting the vote,

01:30:21.600 vote. But there were problems that affected real time voting the day of when 70 percent of the votes

01:30:26.740 were Republican. One can only cross their fingers and hope, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

01:30:30.880 Yeah. I mean, if I can add one more fact to this, it is that one of the things in Abe

01:30:34.560 Hamaday's election contest that was just ruled on last week where we had mere less than a day of time

01:30:41.120 for lawyers to examine a subset of the ballots was, well, an undervote, i.e. you're claiming that your

01:30:47.440 vote for your candidate wasn't recorded. An undervote could have been caught in real time

01:30:51.760 by the voter because you would have fed your machine into the, you fed your ballot into the

01:30:56.940 machine and the machine would spit it out saying there's an undervote. Well, guess what? If in

01:31:00.860 Maricopa County, your ballot could not be read by the machine, which was a significant percentage of

01:31:05.460 the ballots, as Viva just described, you did not have that opportunity. And yet the judge rejected

01:31:12.240 the challenge on the basis that the voter could have identified the problem on site. So anybody

01:31:16.340 whose ballot was not read that day was denied the due process of law to be able to be notified

01:31:21.100 of the undervote and then corrected on the ballot.

01:31:23.500 My God, it's so sticky. This is back to your point of like, we need a better process. If we're

01:31:27.580 actually going to take these close looks and we're going to need to do this more and more because

01:31:31.100 the country's more tribal and more divided than it's been in a long time. And elections are coming

01:31:34.980 in close. They're coming in very close. So correct me if I'm wrong, Hermie, but Katie Hobbs is only said

01:31:39.620 to have won that election by 17,000 votes. It's tight. So the-

01:31:44.280 Yeah. In California, we have members of Congress who got seated with 1,000 votes.

01:31:48.680 And Mike Garcia is a United States member of Congress with 300 votes. Every vote counts.

01:31:53.140 So like it or not, this is the future. This is like it or not, this is the future. And we need

01:31:56.600 a process that everybody can live with. All right, let's switch gears because we've got January 6th

01:32:00.300 and Trump, the House panel investigating the riot. This is the January 6th trial announced it would

01:32:06.460 withdraw the subpoena it had issued of Trump that you can thank Harmeet Dillon for that,

01:32:11.000 I believe, right? Am I right, Harmeet? You guys- Well, here's what happened. I mean,

01:32:14.640 we filed a lawsuit on separation of powers grounds. The president retained my law firm. My partners on

01:32:21.140 the East Coast handled that case. We filed a lawsuit in federal district court in Florida

01:32:26.480 to challenge the propriety of the subpoena on numerous grounds. You know, you guys are lawyers,

01:32:32.140 you know, the grounds would include. Your questions are vague and ambiguous and overbroad,

01:32:37.860 but also your questions and your subpoena do not go towards a proper legislative purpose,

01:32:44.440 which is the only purpose for which a congressional subpoena may be issued. So, hey, you know,

01:32:50.340 there's no legislation pending. What are you going to do with this information? Not a proper purpose.

01:32:54.220 But most importantly, a president, a former president has never sat under subpoena in the

01:33:00.920 United States Congress. And there's a reason for that. President Truman was subpoenaed by the House

01:33:05.500 on American Affairs Committee after he was a president and he wrote a very, you know, short

01:33:12.760 letter saying, go pound sand and in legal terms saying, I'm sorry, but under the separation of

01:33:18.220 powers, no more may a former president than a current president be called to answer for his actions as

01:33:22.900 president before a co-equal branch of the government, namely the United States Congress, because to do so

01:33:29.460 would then affect every president's actions in office would always be subject to being second

01:33:34.240 guest by some future Congress. So this argument is one that we made. And I want to make a clear

01:33:39.280 point. The Congress, the House accepted service of the of the lawsuit. They could have immediately

01:33:45.860 joined issue and gone into court, moved to dismiss, sought a ruling from the judge over it. They did not.

01:33:51.820 What does this prove? They were not serious about ever enforcing that subpoena. They issued it on

01:33:56.100 late October, meaning after the bulk of the material of the work of the of the committee had been done.

01:34:01.780 This was a this was agitprop. This was simply a activity in furtherance of propaganda and not in

01:34:08.440 furtherance of answering any questions by the United States Congress. Power for the course for this

01:34:13.140 committee, which now is saying, oh, in in light of the imminent end of our investigation, we're no

01:34:19.260 longer going to pursue the specific information covered by the subpoena. That's why we withdraw it,

01:34:22.880 not because it was totally impropriate. It was improper to begin with. And in the meantime,

01:34:27.440 in their second act, as they close out their term, because obviously the Republicans are now coming

01:34:33.160 into control, they they said, we have a couple of recommendations, Viva. We recommend Trump be

01:34:38.380 barred from ever holding office again. OK, we had a whole impeachment trial where that was on the

01:34:42.500 table. He wasn't. Twice. So, yeah. Right. It's like, sorry, but you don't have that power.

01:34:47.560 And secondly, they voted unanimously to recommend that Trump be charged with obstruction,

01:34:54.220 obstructing an official proceeding, conspiring to defraud the U.S., conspiring to make false

01:34:58.420 statements to the federal government and wait for it, inciting an insurrection. These are symbolic.

01:35:05.620 I mean, this is this is meaningless, but this is one once again, their final political act

01:35:09.980 before losing their committee. Megan. So everyone bear in mind, I'm a Canadian lawyer from Quebec.

01:35:16.660 This is this has been a learning curve to me. Megan, I watched both impeachments. That's

01:35:22.280 really where I started honing the niche of my YouTube Rumble channel. It's it's it's partisan

01:35:28.720 politics on steroids. And you got oh, geez, Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger, the bipartisan elements

01:35:36.520 of this committee. If you follow Adam Kinzinger's Twitter accounts, and I recommend everyone do it for

01:35:41.220 the sheer entertainment value of it. You have the bipartisan Republican member of the committee

01:35:45.880 talking about the Fifth Amendment saying, I respect the Fifth Amendment. But if you invoke it,

01:35:50.300 it certainly says something about you. You got Adam Kinzinger, the bipartisan element of this

01:35:55.060 committee, tweeting absolute disinformation about Ray Epps and his involvement in the events of

01:36:03.180 January five to January six. And this is the committee that, according to Liz Cheney's own

01:36:08.540 admission, seeks nothing more than making sure that Donald Trump can never get anywhere near the Oval

01:36:13.500 office again, because they are now the they are now democracy. They now vote for the people. They

01:36:18.420 now decide who the people get to vote for. And that's the bipartisan element of this alleged

01:36:22.180 bipartisan committee, which has been a sham of a committee from the very beginning. It's been very

01:36:25.980 eye opening to watch. It's partisan politics at its worst. Mm hmm. But I mean, what do we think,

01:36:31.520 I mean, do we think whatever the committee recommends, it's pointless, whatever. But we do care what the

01:36:36.380 DOJ does. And many believe that they will bring charges irrespective of or perhaps in deference to

01:36:43.080 whatever the Jan six committee was. Well, look, I mean, the D.C. prosecutor is going to do what the

01:36:49.980 Democrats want. He's appointed by the president or they are appointed by the president. And so what's

01:36:56.400 what's so grossly obvious is the situational ethics here and and how it is absolutely partisan

01:37:04.060 politics that's being had here. But if I took off my Republican National Committee slash conservative

01:37:10.320 lawyer hat and simply looked at this objectively, do the actions that the former president are accused

01:37:16.060 of fit these crimes? I think absolutely not. And only through a partisan lens would this be a real

01:37:21.300 prosecution. And, you know, we all know on this podcast here the number of actual crimes that occur

01:37:26.740 in this country and they're taken in front of a prosecutor and prosecutors declines to prosecute

01:37:32.020 people because there's no way they can get a conviction on these facts. You know, something

01:37:34.540 bad happened. But can you connect the facts to the crime? No. So this is just a gross abuse of

01:37:40.320 process, in my opinion, whether you like President Trump or not. We should not be relitigating elections

01:37:45.120 like this forever. What business did the United States Congress do over the last two years?

01:37:51.580 Nothing other than this. And this wasn't business that advanced the goals of the American people.

01:37:55.260 Mm hmm. And to indict a former president on this evidence will really will tear out the fabric of

01:38:02.480 the country. I really hope they reconsider if that's where they're going in the DOJ. I don't

01:38:06.760 care what Janice Committee says. Harmeet, what a pleasure. Viva, you too. Thanks so much for coming

01:38:11.660 on. Happy New Year. Thank you. Thank you. Happy New Year, Megan. All right. Tomorrow on the show,

01:38:15.900 the EJs are with us for the full show. Emily Jashinsky and Eliana Johnson. Great pairing. Plus,

01:38:20.960 later this week, we'll take a deep dive into health and wellness for the new year. You always

01:38:25.920 want to hear a little bit about that going into the new year, right? Like what should we be thinking

01:38:28.920 about? So I got you covered. In the meantime, if you want to hear the full Strudwick story,

01:38:33.200 you can go to MeganKelley.com and you just hit subscribe on the American News Minute. It's free.

01:38:39.740 It only comes once a week. And it's a super fun email from me to you on Fridays. Download our show

01:38:45.120 anywhere you get your podcasts for free. Go to YouTube.com slash MeganKelley and we'll talk tomorrow.

01:38:50.960 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - January 02, 2023

Fauci Finally Retires, and Idaho Murders Arrest, with Dave Rubin, Harmeet Dhillon, and Viva Frei ｜ Ep. 462

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