Brooke Slusser is a setter on the San Jose State University team. She recently joined a class action lawsuit against the NCAA and is going public with efforts by her university to cover up the fact that Blair Fleming is a male.
00:05:12.300And I also got recruited in the summer.
00:05:13.740So I only got to meet two of the girls on the team at the time that just happened to be on campus while I was taking my visit.
00:05:20.540So I didn't really know anyone on the team until I got here.
00:05:23.380And then they also, being a transfer athlete, recommended that one of our group of girls that are on the team had an open room and that I move in with them.
00:05:33.940Because it would be good to help me bond and get to know some of the girls on the team.
00:08:57.580Yeah, so I, when we have travel trips, there's two girls to a room, usually.
00:09:04.520And your coaches just give you anyone on the team, and they usually switch it up with people that they know you're not as close with, so that you can get to know different people on the team.
00:09:15.900Like, I'll get the opportunity to get to know some new people on the team that I haven't really gotten to know yet.
00:09:20.620And then I noticed as time went on that I just kept getting roomed with Blair, which I found very odd because everyone else on the team was getting switched around.
00:10:24.120And so after all of this coming out, like, it was, again, just I'm in such denial because someone you think is a friend and then come to find out their life is a lie to you.
00:13:45.240I mean, there's, I think it's noticeable now for anyone that can go on, like, our team has access to film that you can go watch for practice.
00:13:53.560And you can just see girls the entire practice having to dodge out of the way of a swing.
00:13:59.140So, like, just in that video that you showed, we're not getting slammed in the face.
00:14:06.160I've gone to my coaches and I've said I refuse to play against Blair if there isn't at least a block-up, which, if we're being honest, doesn't only make a difference for anyone.
00:14:15.780But, yeah, I mean, girls, if a block, if there's no block-up, then Blair is just going with no one up at the net, just openly swinging.
00:15:15.820Well, I mean, I'm sure you guys are aware of Peyton McNabb in North Carolina, a young volleyball player who did play against a male who was posing as female and suffered permanent nerve damage and brain damage.
00:15:30.660And she's been outspoken about it since, but she's only 16 years old, and they allowed this to happen to her.
00:15:50.880It's like you're sending your child off, putting them in the hands and trust of these coaches to basically take care of you and be able to relay, like, life decisions and everything through them.
00:16:02.980And then come to find out that they said all these things, like, bring Brooke here, we'll care for her, we'll love for her, and lie about a man being on the team.
00:16:14.000And allowing me to move in with a man on the team after knowing everything that I'd been through personally with my past in volleyball.
00:16:22.620So it was, they could not have been angrier about the whole situation.
00:16:30.120I feel for them entirely and would have shared the outrage.
00:16:34.900So you now are faced with this information.
00:16:37.760And most people, even Riley Gaines, who I know we both love, in the moment did not say anything, you know, because everything's on the line.
00:17:06.160So what, how are you able to get around that great mentality and seek a higher goal, which really is what you're doing to say, this is morally wrong.
00:17:17.420I mean, so we've had so many meetings about all of this with the media people from our school, with admin, compliance, everyone.
00:17:29.100And from the beginning, when we had that first meeting, it was when the first article came out about Blair being trans and basically saying, don't tell Blair's story.
00:17:42.020If people ask about it, it's not your story to tell.
00:17:54.800And it was just this feeling of like, what about us?
00:17:58.500Like there's 18, 19 other women on this team that are having to deal with this and the backlash.
00:18:05.580And then also having to mentally go through the fact of finding out that this is a man we're playing with and that this it's connecting all the puzzle pieces of why Blair played so differently.
00:18:15.840And I think over time, I just got so fed up with this like heavy feeling of they don't care about us and they're not doing anything to protect us.
00:18:28.060They only care about protecting Blair, which I don't understand.
00:18:32.860And no one else understood, but it was like, there's so many things that everyone else is going through.
00:18:37.780I'm going to deal with this, but yet don't make a comment.
00:18:58.440And so when I got the opportunity and got reached out to by icons to join the lawsuit, I sat in it for a minute and I was like, I never want anyone else to have to go through what my team is having to go through right now.
00:19:12.700I mean, these girls grow up again, just wanting to play D1 volleyball.
00:19:18.040And now we're to the point where we're barely talking about volleyball and we're only talking about how to deal with the outside noise of all of this and how to handle it and how to deal with it.
00:19:27.200But we don't have anyone in the school really telling us how to do those things, just telling us to be quiet and be happy and nothing's going to change.
00:19:36.080And so I think at the end of the day, I just got so fed up.
00:19:38.860I was like, I want to be able to make this change for other people coming into collegiate sports.
00:19:42.700I am so sorry that this happened to you.
00:20:21.600All I can think of right now, and by the way, for those just tuning in, we're talking to Brooke Slusser.
00:20:27.540She is the co-captain of the San Jose State women's volleyball team right now.
00:20:31.760And she is speaking out about what this school is doing to her and the other girls and the girls in the league by refusing to pull a male player who is pretending to be female and instead forcing them all to play against him.
00:20:47.280All I can think of is Megan Rapinoe, one of the most well-known names in women's sports who said, and I quote, show me all the trans people who are nefariously taking advantage of being trans in sports.
00:21:23.580So there's, at the end of the day, if this is going to keep going the way it's going, why wouldn't coaches just recruit a full team of men if they're allowed to be in women's sports?
00:21:33.900I mean, you would obviously win everything.
00:21:40.720As long as they're willing to put on a skirt and say they're not male, they're in.
00:21:44.380And, I mean, there's money attached to it.
00:21:46.780There's bragging rights attached to it.
00:21:48.920Universities pay millions, millions of dollars to get the right recruits and make sure that the university is built up to have winning sports teams.
00:22:19.560Riley didn't take long before she found that voice.
00:22:22.160And she's been so fierce on this whole issue.
00:22:25.760And she's been a leader in, among other things, bringing this lawsuit saying, you violated my Title IX rights, NCAA, and should never have put me or others in the position that they are putting you, Brooke, in right now.
00:22:45.440And they, so ICONS, which is a group that helps women in this position and well worth your time and your money if you want to donate, folks, is now, they reach out to you.
00:23:03.340This is an active issue for you right now.
00:23:05.100And what kind of reaction do you get from your teammates and your coaches?
00:23:13.860I think my coaches were very caught off guard when I first told them.
00:23:19.920I think they said a lot of things that all I asked of them, I said, I just ask that you respect me and my decision as much as you're respecting and deciding to support Blair in his decision to be here.
00:23:38.740And I said, you don't have to think of me the same off the court, but on the court, I just want the same respect.
00:23:43.000And just from how everything had been going, I knew that my coach wasn't going to be happy about me joining, most likely.
00:23:53.900But again, I kind of just left it at, I just want the respect on the court.
00:23:58.180I don't want anything to change on the court.
00:24:00.760And he was like, of course, like, I'm not going to change the way I treat you as a coach.
00:24:08.120To this day, I don't know if that's still happening.
00:24:10.400But from my team, I've had so much love.
00:24:15.820I mean, we have such an amazing group of women on our team.
00:24:19.800And that is the only reason I'm still able to be here is for them.
00:24:24.220Because they come in every day and they work their butts off.
00:24:40.220There is no one else that can say in the nation in NCAA sports that they're going through what we're going through right now.
00:24:46.400And it's like, there's only so much mental strength that a woman can have every day to come in and suck it up and just put a smile on your face.
00:24:54.100So if it wasn't for them, I wouldn't be able to keep going the way I'm going every day going to the gym.
00:25:24.700I mean, I'm just right now as hard because I think it's so hard to talk about because, again, you don't know who you can trust talking about these things with.
00:25:33.500And so it's just me making sure that I can still reach out to my teammates, especially those young girls.
00:25:42.780Imagine being an 18-year-old in college trying to figure out the new lifestyle of being away from your family and getting homesick and then introducing collegiate sports in that scenario and then college classes and then adding this to that.
00:25:57.360So I'm just making sure that I'm reaching out, being like, please come talk to me if you need help.
00:26:05.880Let's go get out of town and go do something.
00:26:09.540And it would be insane the amount that everyone is just like, I just need to get out and just have a mental break.
00:26:16.760Like, and it's just so sad to see these young girls have to experience their freshman year of college, sophomore year of college, having to go through this or first year at this school and wanting to transfer and find somewhere happy and then have to go through this.
00:26:33.080So it's like me just trying to be strong for them.
00:27:26.380This is about our team and not having a terrible season because we would need to do this for the team and be selfless just in the way the team has been selfless for you.
00:27:34.160And then after that conversation, keep, keep going.
00:29:01.720And I think that's what's so amazing about the whole thing is people are finally getting the courage to stand up and say, no, this isn't right.
00:29:08.940No matter what their school is telling them, no matter what the uppers are telling them, they're saying, no, this isn't OK.
00:29:15.960And I think that's just an amazing thing in itself.
00:29:18.360Like, yes, we're losing the opportunity to play, but for such a good reason.
00:29:21.620I mean, so many people I've heard say it.
00:29:42.560We've had a couple of runners and a couple of bikers.
00:29:45.120But for the most part, I'd say over 90 percent of women placed in this terrible position suck it up, not because they're bad, but because they're tough.
00:30:36.880And I mean, if you really like I don't think people understand how courageous it is that these women are finally taking a stand and saying no, they have worked their lives for these D1 scholarships, playing collegiate sports.
00:30:49.720So there's so much on the line that potentially could happen for people deciding to take a stand and speak out.
00:30:57.400And yet four teams have decided not to play against us.
00:31:01.280And I just think that is so courageous of that entire team, because honestly, going through that whole process of not playing against us, they probably had no idea what could happen or what could come of that.
00:31:51.840If you have an objection to it, you need therapy.
00:31:54.800And you're not going to be hireable by others.
00:31:57.840These were the allegations, at least, that the university tried to guilt them and that they just naturally had a fear, given the climate we're in, that they would be rendered unhirable.
00:32:05.860So how have you and other girls you've talked to in this reconciled that threat, that possibility?
00:32:11.900I mean, I think I know it helped me a lot to be able to talk with everyone that's in the lawsuit and icons and all the people involved in that, because they're the ones that really gave me the courage that I needed.
00:32:27.220Because, again, I was just like everyone else.
00:32:29.320I was like, okay, well, I only have three months of volleyball in my life left.
00:32:40.900That was my biggest fear, is just losing my scholarship.
00:32:43.380And once I feel like they bring to light, they can't do anything to you for speaking your story and what you're going through.
00:32:53.280And it's going against everything that our entire team and everyone else that is getting gaslit and pushed into thinking you can't speak, you can't stand up and say these things.
00:33:08.060And once you finally sit down with some rationalized people that actually know what they're talking about and they tell you that's all live there, that's all gaslighting.
00:33:17.140They just want to be able to control you and tell you what to say.
00:33:20.540And that's at the end of the day where I was like, okay, I'm done.
00:33:23.720Like, they're not going to be able to gaslight me anymore.
00:33:28.280I want to be able to be a person that can have this knowledge to spread to my team and be like, you can speak, you can do these things.
00:33:37.480And so I think that's what gave me the courage is just actually having the knowledge of what can and can't happen for speaking out and trying to stop this.
00:33:47.160Because genuinely, they really can't do anything to you.
00:33:50.440And I think, I mean, I'm a great example of that.
00:34:13.680They saw something in you that told them you could be that person, that you had that strength inside of you.
00:34:20.640And now you're using it to change the lives, not just of these women, but of so many other women behind you, of my daughter, who's only 13, of my listeners' daughters, of the young women who listen to this program.
00:36:31.420And especially being on a volleyball court, you're so out in the open.
00:36:33.700I'm like, yes, you can add security to around the court.
00:36:37.460But when you're on that court, you really are very vulnerable.
00:36:39.920And I also have five other girls on the court with me and our whole bench that are out open and vulnerable.
00:36:47.440So I think that was really scary for me is just knowing that, like, something that I decided to join could potentially hurt my teammates or me trying to just play the game that we love.
00:38:08.760But the only right answer to that question is, I would be perfectly fine if we weren't playing with a man.
00:38:17.160I would feel safe if we weren't playing with a man.
00:38:19.980There's nothing wrong with me being sad, anxious, stressed about having to deal with this situation.
00:38:26.800And they keep asking us how they can fix this.
00:38:29.040But if anyone stands up and says, oh, just kick Blair off the team, they immediately say that's not happening.
00:38:35.860So, no, I don't think there's going to be any change from the school anytime soon or ever with this whole situation.
00:38:41.800They must be forced to comply with Title IX and its protection of women as it was.
00:38:50.900I mean, right now it's been challenged.
00:38:52.120The changes that Joe Biden's tried to push through have been paused because of all the lawsuits by so many states saying this is unconstitutional.
00:39:02.840I mean, you're aware of how he's trying to redefine womenhood and allow men into women's sports with the stroke of his pen, I assume, since you've got a Title IX lawsuit that you've joined.
00:39:13.060Do you have thoughts about presidential politics and what you want to see?
00:39:19.240I mean, I don't genuinely think this whole situation has anything to do with politics.
00:39:25.600I think it has the whole thing to do with men just should not be in women's sports.
00:39:33.680And it has nothing to do with who is president and who is going to get elected.
00:39:38.120Well, it does a little because you've got Kamala Harris saying trans rights are human rights, period.
00:39:44.500See, I think things could move along a lot faster if a specific someone was elected.
00:39:50.960But it's just so crazy to me that people can sit there and obviously see the difference and still support it.
00:39:59.080And that's just something that I can't understand because it's all these people that are trying to say facts about this to support it that just have no background information and facts and science to actually back it up.
00:40:17.000Or they do and they just want to signal that they have virtue and they're a good person, unlike people who challenge it, who just don't understand how hard it is on the trans athlete without giving any consideration to what it's doing to the actual girls around him.
00:40:35.460Can I just ask you, Brooke, where are you from?
00:40:38.620Like, how did you get to be so strong?
00:40:40.340You must come from a pretty strong, cool family.