The Megyn Kelly Show - (Former Father) Jonathan Morris and his wife Kaitlyn, on Faith, Marriage, and Glorifying God ｜ Ep. 42

00:00:00.000 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:12.680 Hey, everyone, it's Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and Merry Christmas.

00:00:18.220 Today on the program, a perfect couple of guests. We've got Jonathan Morris and Caitlin Morris.

00:00:23.960 Jonathan Morris is better known to a lot of the folks who listen to this show as Father Jonathan, now formerly Father Jonathan Morris.

00:00:34.080 He's a Fox News contributor. That's where I first met him.

00:00:36.920 And in May of 2019, he announced he was leaving the priesthood.

00:00:42.080 And shortly thereafter, it did not overlap or did it? We'll ask. No, it didn't.

00:00:46.820 He met Caitlin and we'll take it from there when you meet them in a minute.

00:00:51.180 But the story of how it all happened is absolutely fascinating.

00:00:56.620 And we just thought it would be a perfect couple to bring on this time of year just to celebrate.

00:01:02.340 Yes, God, choices in life, independence and love, ultimately love.

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00:02:34.200 And now, my now former priest but current friend, Jonathan Morris and his wife, Caitlin.

00:02:42.280 Ah, sweet newlyweds together with me.

00:02:49.360 The weird third wheel.

00:02:52.180 Okay, there's so much to go over with you.

00:02:53.940 So I'm going to start with you, Jonathan.

00:02:56.320 So, Caitlin, stand by because I got to get your story on record, Jonathan.

00:03:01.240 I can't call you Jonathan.

00:03:02.720 I've only ever called you Father Jonathan.

00:03:04.600 So I can't do that now.

00:03:05.840 So Janice Dean and I decided we're going to call you FFJ because you used to be FJ.

00:03:10.560 Now you're formerly Father.

00:03:11.540 So FFJ is my – that's going to be my interim term for you and I'll try to grow into Jonathan.

00:03:17.300 That's fine.

00:03:18.140 You can call me whatever you like and that's part of our history.

00:03:21.700 That's part of my history and I'm so glad that this history is connected with yours over so many years.

00:03:28.460 Oh, you have been such a beautiful friend to me and counselor and just amazing presence in my life.

00:03:35.780 So I'm thrilled to have you and to be talking about your joy.

00:03:40.140 So you grew up in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and I love the story of how you first became a priest.

00:03:47.120 I remember sitting in a little restaurant with you and Doug years ago.

00:03:50.580 I mean, I don't know.

00:03:51.080 It must have been 13 years ago or so, 12 years ago.

00:03:54.160 Yeah.

00:03:54.320 And you were telling me this story and I couldn't believe how it happened.

00:04:00.300 So before we get to this moment, did you grow up very religious?

00:04:04.420 I would say my parents tried to raise me very religious.

00:04:08.980 That was that.

00:04:10.500 Certainly a religious home.

00:04:12.760 But at the same time, I kind of instinctively rejected that during my – especially during my high school years.

00:04:20.920 Mm-hmm.

00:04:22.780 And so, like, do you have brothers and sisters?

00:04:24.800 I know you have at least one sister.

00:04:26.380 I have six siblings.

00:04:28.840 Oh, my goodness.

00:04:29.640 Big Catholic family.

00:04:30.920 Seven kids.

00:04:33.200 Mostly grew up in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and then also in Akron and Cleveland, Ohio.

00:04:38.880 So maybe typical Catholic, large Catholic family of years past that would maybe at least encourage or be open to one of the children becoming a priest or a nun.

00:04:53.820 But certainly that was not encouraged and I had no idea or any interest in that growing up, at least halfway through college.

00:05:02.380 You know, it's funny because my mom and dad – my mom is very Catholic and my dad was very Catholic and even my stepdad is very Catholic.

00:05:12.500 But my mom, too, tried to do the Catholic thing when she first married my dad.

00:05:17.340 You know, she saved herself to marriage. 0.99

00:05:19.040 And then as she puts it, she had two babies in two years and she said, forget that.

00:05:23.300 Got herself some birth control.

00:05:25.480 And I came along five years later.

00:05:27.640 But there's so many big Catholic families in part for that reason.

00:05:30.460 Yeah.

00:05:31.320 Well, and thank God that, you know, five years later you came along.

00:05:34.680 That's right.

00:05:35.340 As I like to remind my brother and sister, I was the only one they really wanted.

00:05:38.780 I was the only planned.

00:05:40.260 Okay.

00:05:42.320 All right.

00:05:42.840 So you grew up a Catholic family and, you know, maybe there's some – did you know there might be some hope that you would enter the priesthood one day?

00:05:52.080 No.

00:05:52.440 The only first memory, Megan, that I have of being somehow attracted to the priesthood or like kind of a noble calling was – I remember my parents had a priest friend who was like this traveling missionary come and celebrate mass at our house.

00:06:12.780 I have no idea why they did that.

00:06:14.400 But anyway, he came and was like in the living room.

00:06:16.740 I don't know if he was asking for money or if he would – like I have no idea what – but he left in the closet his chalice and the wafers, what we would call unconsecrated hosts, right?

00:06:31.000 And I remember, first of all, being fascinated by him as a person that he was – he would talk about his missionary work and traveling.

00:06:39.040 I don't know if it was the travel that was interesting to me or I think it was more than that.

00:06:43.900 It was the travel in order to do something great in his life.

00:06:48.420 And he was pitching that to us and telling us about it.

00:06:51.340 I found it fascinating.

00:06:52.360 But then some like very late night, I snuck down into that closet and I saw the chalice and I saw those wafers and I had – this is a confession, Megan.

00:07:03.180 Well, I can't say if you've been to confession to me or not.

00:07:05.780 Oh, and the worm has turned.

00:07:08.360 This is my confession to you.

00:07:11.680 I went up into that closet and I took some of the wafers down and I ate them.

00:07:16.200 I don't know.

00:07:16.580 I felt like – I don't know.

00:07:19.240 I was like testing it out or something.

00:07:20.660 So to answer your question, I had very little interest in priesthood or in anything like that until halfway through college and I can tell you about that later.

00:07:32.520 Yes, I love this part.

00:07:33.380 So it reminds me of the Saturday Night Fever line.

00:07:36.180 My girlfriend, she loves to taste the communion wafers, Father.

00:07:39.840 Which really nobody ever says.

00:07:41.340 I mean, that's the truth.

00:07:42.080 But you were a different story.

00:07:43.500 Okay.

00:07:44.100 So you get to college.

00:07:46.700 What was your major in college when you first got there?

00:07:49.140 I studied business, business administration, marketing.

00:07:53.500 You think you're going a different route.

00:07:55.220 And then tell us what happened.

00:07:56.200 Very different.

00:07:57.640 Well, I ended up rooming with a friend of mine who was from Los Angeles and he said he told me that he was thinking about being a priest.

00:08:05.840 Now, this was a Catholic college and so there was a kind of an underlining Catholic culture to it.

00:08:11.900 But we were part of kind of like the bad boys fraternity.

00:08:16.220 You know, we used to say, yeah, we'll go to confession if anybody drinks more than X number of beers.

00:08:21.840 Okay.

00:08:22.120 And X number was like, wait, it should have been XX, right?

00:08:27.520 Like it was a way too high number, right?

00:08:30.000 So we were not really on the path towards religious, certainly religious conversion or even real attachment.

00:08:39.940 But my roommate said that he had this profoundly religious spiritual experience in high school.

00:08:46.040 He turned away from some of his bad ways and he was thinking about being a priest.

00:08:50.960 But then every – so he was a year ahead of me in college.

00:08:54.220 Every freshman class that came in of girls, he would start dating them.

00:08:58.680 And he would forget the idea of celibate priesthood very quickly.

00:09:03.020 And I would say, Rick, like what happened?

00:09:05.760 Like I thought you were thinking about this and all I could think of – and I don't know if this was God or if this was my upbringing.

00:09:12.420 I have no idea.

00:09:13.660 But I said to him, Rick, there will be consequences whether you choose to go the route of priesthood and missionary or not.

00:09:22.760 So don't just go with what you feel.

00:09:25.260 Try to decide what you should do.

00:09:28.680 And so the two of us went to a seminary to visit seminaries where guys were thinking about being a priest go and study.

00:09:37.300 And I went with him to make sure he went.

00:09:39.780 He ended up saying, yes, I'm staying.

00:09:42.160 He stayed for seven days.

00:09:43.660 He took off.

00:09:44.780 But in those seven days, I visited him and one thing led to another.

00:09:48.320 I ended up staying for 26 years.

00:09:53.200 So when you said, I'm going to do it and he said, I'm not.

00:09:57.480 What was that moment like?

00:09:59.280 Um, well, I don't know if you might have been thinking about my girlfriend, to be honest, because he laughed.

00:10:06.820 I stayed.

00:10:07.780 I broke up with my girlfriend of two years.

00:10:09.740 I called him.

00:10:10.600 I'm saying, I'm staying.

00:10:12.280 I said, Rhett, do me a favor.

00:10:15.500 Take care of Tasha.

00:10:17.540 Oh, boy.

00:10:18.160 And he said, I got your back, buddy.

00:10:20.640 They are married and they have eight kids.

00:10:25.400 No.

00:10:26.740 Were you in the wedding?

00:10:28.660 I was not invited to the wedding.

00:10:30.900 It was too soon.

00:10:31.700 Oh, I was going to say.

00:10:33.740 If they had waited just a couple of years, you could have officiated it.

00:10:37.000 But that's hilarious.

00:10:38.720 What a fun story they have, too, for how they how they first got together.

00:10:43.260 OK, so now.

00:10:44.620 So at that point in your life, when you decided, I'm going to do this, how old were you?

00:10:47.700 So I was 20, 21 when I first left for the seminary.

00:10:52.860 OK.

00:10:53.360 And so at that point, you mentioned you had Tasha.

00:10:56.660 So you had had girlfriends.

00:10:58.680 Yes.

00:10:59.620 21 year old guy, Catholic or not.

00:11:02.920 I'm just trying to see where you're going.

00:11:04.460 I'm trying to see where you're going.

00:11:05.760 You know where I'm going.

00:11:06.640 You know exactly.

00:11:07.160 I know.

00:11:07.680 You had Tasha.

00:11:09.700 You had a girlfriend.

00:11:10.900 I'm trying.

00:11:11.280 No, she's trying to.

00:11:12.300 I didn't mean had in like my wife.

00:11:15.200 My wife is on this call. 0.95

00:11:19.020 I meant you had experienced a girlfriend in your world.

00:11:24.220 Yes, romance.

00:11:24.820 So beautiful.

00:11:25.680 So was it hard to like step away from, you know, I mean, whatever had happened there?

00:11:31.460 I think it would be hard to sort of say, I don't want that anymore, because, of course, the Catholic priesthood requires you to reject that.

00:11:38.880 It was hard.

00:11:39.800 It was very hard.

00:11:40.580 And I ended up joining, this is probably a good topic for a whole nother podcast, but I ended up joining a religious order that was, I would call it a cult.

00:11:53.480 Founded by a super, super charismatic guy who ended up becoming very friendly with Pope John Paul II, ended up from this little teensy tiny town in Mexico.

00:12:10.800 He ended up founding and then growing this religious order that swept the world, bringing together some of the most, I think, talented young men.

00:12:20.560 The fastest growing order in the Catholic church, it was called the Legionaries of Christ.

00:12:26.140 One thing, you know, fast forward 15 years, 20 years, really, I had been in this the whole time.

00:12:32.300 It was discovered that this man was a total fraud, that he had multiple families around the world, that he had abused seminarians, that he had children, that he had abused his own children.

00:12:44.980 It's a long story.

00:12:45.780 His name was Father Marcial, Marcial, Marcial.

00:12:49.800 So they used very heavy recruiting tactics.

00:12:54.120 I remember one time with my roommate in college, they're talking to one of these recruiters, and they looked at me, they were supposedly recruiting him, but they looked at me and they said,

00:13:07.720 Jonathan, you were created by God from all eternity to be a member of the Legionaries of Christ.

00:13:16.520 That left a huge impression.

00:13:18.080 That's fine, because it was a reinforcement over and over of, you're in the right place, you're doing the right thing, this is your highest and best calling.

00:13:25.960 That's right.

00:13:26.760 So, wait, when you say you were with them, you were with them for 20 years, or just 20 years later, he was exposed?

00:13:33.220 So I was with them for, I think, 15 years.

00:13:36.980 And then when he was exposed, I quickly asked for a, basically to be dismissed from that order, to be let go, and I joined the Archdiocese of New York under the great welcome and leadership of Timothy Dolan, Cardinal Dolan of New York.

00:13:56.960 Where were you when you were with the Legionaries?

00:14:00.400 Where were you?

00:14:01.720 So I lived in Rome for nine years, Rome, Italy.

00:14:04.540 So I was with them.

00:14:05.480 That's when I first started working for the Fox News Channel, CNN first, and then the Fox News Channel as a commentator.

00:14:14.580 And then I was there for, gosh, I guess another five years.

00:14:19.220 And then I transferred out of that order when everything was falling apart.

00:14:23.300 It still exists, believe it or not.

00:14:25.460 And a lot of great people involved with it, but the order is rotten from within, in my opinion.

00:14:31.940 And then I came to New York.

00:14:33.680 And that's when you came to New York.

00:14:35.100 Okay, that's, that's when, when we met.

00:14:36.960 So you're, you're over there in Rome and you, this is when we first met when you were covering the death of Pope John Paul II, right?

00:14:48.640 Yeah, so I would have been in Rome over there.

00:14:51.160 And then I came back to New York and I've been in New York for 10 years.

00:14:56.200 Okay.

00:14:57.380 And is it true you were actually with the Pope when he died?

00:15:01.160 Not, not when he died.

00:15:02.520 I was with him personally, I think the last time on Easter Sunday, Easter Sunday of, you know, in that same year that he died.

00:15:14.340 So, um, I, I walked up and I was delivering this gift to him and they brought me in and sat me down at his, um, Easter, uh, lunch table.

00:15:25.160 So it was in a pretty amazing moment for me.

00:15:28.320 I mean, is that even just like, as a lowly Catholic, um, I can't imagine what it would feel like to be next to him in particular, Pope John Paul II.

00:15:39.860 I mean, as a priest, did you feel, was it electric?

00:15:43.080 What was it like?

00:15:43.960 Yes, it was electric.

00:15:44.960 At the same time, Megan, it's interesting looking back on it because he was one who was, who was complicit, I don't think intentionally, but I think he was complicit, um, in allowing this really monster of a guy, Father Maciel, to, um, dupe him and all of us.

00:16:03.980 So here was a very, I think a very holy saintly man who's actually been made a saint in the Catholic church.

00:16:09.780 He's been canonized, but he, I think allowed himself to be duped and there was not good management.

00:16:17.600 I can tell you that, um, too, you know, so it's really, I have mixed feelings.

00:16:23.260 I certainly, I felt electrified being with him at the same time.

00:16:27.320 I hope I'm not too cynical right now, but I say, ah, I wish he would have done something differently.

00:16:33.200 Well, yeah.

00:16:33.740 I mean, a lot of folks, Catholic and non are looking at the Catholic church, feeling that on a number of levels.

00:16:38.720 Getting back to you and you're getting hired at Fox news.

00:16:42.780 You were, so our, for our audience who doesn't know you, um, FFJ is a very good looking man.

00:16:49.680 He is a very good looking, he's the best looking priest.

00:16:52.940 We used to call you father.

00:16:54.200 What a waste.

00:16:54.820 I don't know if you knew that.

00:16:55.720 Did you know that?

00:16:56.700 Uh, I read it in your book.

00:17:00.420 That's a plug.

00:17:01.560 That's a plug.

00:17:01.980 So yeah, we used to call him father.

00:17:03.660 What a waste, you know, and you know why, um, you were like an instant celebrity.

00:17:08.720 Because you were this priest who could really explain what we were watching and we would

00:17:12.920 always cover, um, you know, the, the Pope's deaths or the, the new Pope who was coming

00:17:17.280 in and you could just explain it in terms that people would understand.

00:17:20.260 You were always incredibly affable, very good communicator.

00:17:23.280 And this is why not only did CNN hire you, Fox news hired you, you became a wall street

00:17:28.100 journal contributor.

00:17:29.380 You got a serious XM radio show on the Catholic channel.

00:17:33.460 You were featured in the movie, the Irishman for like a while.

00:17:37.900 And you became what I think is the closest thing I've seen to a celebrity priest.

00:17:42.980 So I wonder if you ever got a hard time for that from your other priests.

00:17:47.560 Um, Caitlin will be brought in in a minute. 0.89

00:17:51.980 Um, but I, you know, I think she will say, yes, they were fricking jealous. 0.89

00:17:57.640 Okay.

00:17:58.120 That's, I think that's what she'll say.

00:17:59.980 Um, at the same time, I received a lot of love.

00:18:02.320 Is she there?

00:18:03.020 Caitlin, are you there?

00:18:04.640 I am here.

00:18:05.980 Hi, Megan.

00:18:06.580 What's the truth?

00:18:07.420 What's the truth lady? 1.00

00:18:08.400 Hi, good to hear you.

00:18:09.760 Oh, no.

00:18:10.700 I just think that sometimes it's hard for people when they see lots of good things happening

00:18:15.840 to other people and maybe not them.

00:18:17.420 It's hard for them to, to celebrate with you.

00:18:20.240 It's like, so, um, I think for John, there's a lot of great things that had happened to him.

00:18:25.240 Even, you know, this was before we met and maybe some people saw that as competition,

00:18:30.300 I guess.

00:18:31.480 That's what I've tried to tell them.

00:18:32.980 Cause even when you go into the priesthood, you're still a human being and have all the

00:18:37.720 same positive and negative attributes of being a human being as anybody else.

00:18:41.860 And jealousy is one of them.

00:18:43.840 Yes, yes.

00:18:44.860 It's a green, it's a green eyed monster.

00:18:47.620 There were so many people who supported me, including Cardinal Timothy Dolan, whom you

00:18:53.440 know, and who, um, encouraged me to continue up doing the media.

00:18:58.920 Um, and I hope I did it with an honest desire to just communicate what I believed.

00:19:06.880 And I still believe about, about God and about purpose in life and about, um, all of those

00:19:13.100 things.

00:19:14.840 More with Jonathan and Caitlin in just one second.

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00:20:41.940 Colonel Dillon is a standup guy.

00:20:43.760 I love him.

00:20:44.860 And just so our listeners know, he's so sweet.

00:20:47.680 I've met him a few times.

00:20:49.160 I've interviewed him a couple of times.

00:20:50.760 And after my acrimonious departure from NBC, he wrote me the nicest handwritten letter.

00:20:57.800 And I mean, as a Catholic, when you get a note like that from Cardinal Dillon, it's

00:21:02.140 like, oh my God, except there was no return address on there.

00:21:07.320 I was like, I really struggled to figure out how to thank him.

00:21:12.700 And it's not like, dear Santa, North Pole.

00:21:16.040 You know, you can't just say like, Cardinal Dillon, St. Pat's.

00:21:19.300 Anyway, he's a standup guy.

00:21:21.460 And Jonathan, I want the audience to know, you too, not only did you baptize all three

00:21:26.260 of my kids and Janice Dean's kids, but there was a very tumultuous time in my life when I

00:21:34.020 was in Cleveland, Ohio for the Republican National Convention when Trump got the nomination.

00:21:40.420 And it was the same day that somebody leaked my name to the Drudge Report as cooperating with

00:21:49.700 the investigation into Roger Ailes.

00:21:52.940 Previously, I just hadn't said anything publicly and people knew there was pressure on me to

00:21:57.480 say something.

00:21:58.340 They wanted me to say something in his defense, but I wouldn't.

00:22:00.960 But people didn't know that I was actually somebody who was coming forward against him

00:22:04.080 behind the scenes.

00:22:05.200 And it got leaked to the Drudge Report.

00:22:07.600 And it was a big, big news story.

00:22:09.640 And it was certainly a huge news story at Fox.

00:22:11.500 And I was hauled up in my hotel room, not talking to anyone.

00:22:17.280 I was afraid.

00:22:18.540 I felt like a caged animal in there because now I had no allies.

00:22:23.560 I didn't know who it fought.

00:22:24.420 I mean, Fox was very divided at the time over this.

00:22:26.920 And, you know, Janice knew my story, but nobody else knew the story.

00:22:29.880 And it was just very scary.

00:22:31.660 And I got a knock on my door and it was you.

00:22:35.040 And you came in.

00:22:36.660 You held my hand.

00:22:37.880 And we prayed.

00:22:39.700 You weren't looking for anything other than to be supportive.

00:22:44.020 And I will never forget that moment.

00:22:46.180 You just held my hand and we prayed.

00:22:47.860 It was the only thing that made me feel better.

00:22:50.160 Megan, let me do a little revisionist history here, but I think it's actually true.

00:22:56.380 So I did not knock on your door.

00:22:58.960 Okay, that would have been very creepy.

00:23:01.480 And you would not have answered your door.

00:23:05.120 I didn't mean it as a surprise.

00:23:06.640 So it was.

00:23:09.600 So we texted.

00:23:11.900 And let me tell you from my perspective.

00:23:14.160 So imagine this.

00:23:15.500 So we were texting and we didn't share anything about what you were going.

00:23:20.700 I knew what you were going through and et cetera.

00:23:23.360 And I just wanted to know that I was there for you as a friend and as a priest.

00:23:29.480 And so we agreed to meet, right?

00:23:33.400 And you said, the only place I can't even get out of my room.

00:23:36.860 Like you said, you felt like a ketchup animal.

00:23:38.700 Like, I can't come out.

00:23:39.880 So the only place to meet is here.

00:23:41.720 And here I am thinking, right?

00:23:43.820 The audience can try to picture this.

00:23:45.920 So here, Megyn Kelly is now big time in the news in a story that has to do with sex. 0.96

00:23:52.920 It has to do with abuse.

00:23:54.140 And it has to do with all sorts of stuff.

00:23:56.420 And here, a priest is going up to her bedroom in a hotel.

00:24:04.960 Okay?

00:24:05.860 So this is what's going through my mind.

00:24:07.420 I'm going, okay, you want me to meet you there?

00:24:09.540 Okay.

00:24:09.720 Should I go?

00:24:10.640 So here are my two choices, Megyn.

00:24:13.380 I never told you this.

00:24:14.620 I'm telling you this for the first time.

00:24:16.360 Do I like, it's, I think this is August, right?

00:24:19.660 Um, so I'm like, how do I go up, like, and wrap my, like, cover up my collar so that nobody

00:24:26.480 knows that it's a priest going up to your hotel room.

00:24:30.540 And I think, like, no, that, that might be worse.

00:24:33.940 Right?

00:24:34.520 So they might like recognize me and I'm like hiding.

00:24:37.840 And so like some, some, something's going to be like released in which a video of me going

00:24:42.960 up, hiding my car.

00:24:45.220 So I just said, I'm going up.

00:24:47.440 No, it does not look good.

00:24:48.620 So I just decided to go up, um, just, you know, making a, a, a pastoral visit and all

00:24:55.260 went well, but, um, you were a trooper there, Megan.

00:24:57.720 And I think you tried to live, um, honestly and truthfully, and it all worked out.

00:25:04.160 Wow.

00:25:04.840 Thank you.

00:25:05.640 I mean, I've said before, and it's true that I think the same ethical compass that led

00:25:10.560 me to make the decisions I made there and throughout the rest of my life were in large

00:25:14.860 part, thanks to the Catholic church.

00:25:16.840 I mean, I'm not a particularly religious person.

00:25:20.220 I, I, I'm not very good about going to church on Sundays, but the imprint that was made on

00:25:25.880 me from going every Sunday and going through all of the sacraments, you know, that I have

00:25:30.540 just religious education with my mom, you know, that my mom put me in, um, it mattered.

00:25:36.700 It made a difference in my life.

00:25:38.280 And so even if you don't wind up, you know, particularly observant, I do think it's a

00:25:44.400 worthwhile exercise because that ethical imprint winds up mattering in life.

00:25:49.900 Absolutely true.

00:25:50.340 But Megan, think about your kids though.

00:25:52.120 This is like, I'm just, cause this is like hard.

00:25:54.440 This is hard podcast stuff.

00:25:56.480 You have to put that imprint on them.

00:25:59.060 Right.

00:25:59.540 So somehow an imprint was made on you, right?

00:26:03.200 Because of going every Sunday or whatever.

00:26:05.460 And I don't, I think there's different ways and I'm trying to figure this out myself.

00:26:09.240 It's much easier for me to go to mass on Sunday, every Sunday as a priest.

00:26:12.720 Now I have to make a decision to do it when nobody is expecting me to show up.

00:26:17.120 Aha.

00:26:17.780 Welcome to our world.

00:26:19.240 Yes.

00:26:19.640 It's different.

00:26:21.160 Oh, and like sitting through boring homilies and like bad music.

00:26:25.120 Oh my God.

00:26:25.960 Oh my gosh.

00:26:26.860 Oh my gosh.

00:26:27.660 He's crossed over. 0.57

00:26:28.720 He's on our team now.

00:26:30.580 Yes.

00:26:31.200 You've got to be armchair quarterbacking.

00:26:33.220 Are you not?

00:26:33.660 You're like, pick it up for the love of, right?

00:26:35.540 No.

00:26:36.260 Oh, oh, it's, it's rough.

00:26:38.320 Especially my wonderful wife who we'll talk to in a minute is grew up evangelical and like 0.92

00:26:45.340 they have great music and they have great preaching.

00:26:48.240 And so I'm trying to explain to her, Caitlin, I love, I mean, what I, I'm going here, not

00:26:53.960 because of that, but because of the sacraments and because I, you know, I believe God is

00:26:57.960 present in a special way.

00:26:59.520 And she's like, but the music is really bad and this guy can't talk.

00:27:04.780 Caitlin, is there any chance you're going to convert him to evangelical?

00:27:08.780 Well, he did go with me to my mom's church and evangelical church in Pennsylvania, um, that

00:27:15.200 has like a rock band and there's, you know, PowerPoint presentation and there's props and

00:27:20.980 everything and, and you get coffee when, before you walk in for service and you mingle and

00:27:26.620 John's like, what is this?

00:27:28.320 He's so confused, but he was trying so hard to sing along.

00:27:31.520 And it was, it was, yeah, it made my mom very happy.

00:27:34.540 He got major points there with my mom that Sunday because he went to church.

00:27:37.300 That would be such a huge twist to this story.

00:27:40.120 I mean, like I'm sort of rooting for it.

00:27:43.880 Um, okay.

00:27:44.820 So, so back to, back to you and your, and your struggle.

00:27:48.640 So you get to some point in the, in your time as a priest where it, I mean, you, it must

00:27:54.200 have occurred to you like the bird saying, Hmm, I'm not sure this is for me.

00:27:58.820 How long into your tenure as a priest was that?

00:28:02.680 I would say almost right from the beginning, Megan, um, as sad as that sounds.

00:28:09.180 Um, and it, it's not all, it's not all sad.

00:28:12.800 Um, keep in mind that I did join that religious order that turned out to be a cult.

00:28:17.460 So there were things that were not right.

00:28:20.180 It was super strict, super rigid, uh, very kind of top down control, uh, very little personal

00:28:29.780 freedom.

00:28:30.200 And so at some level, even though I was very young and very idealistic and, um, noble and

00:28:38.080 not, so I wanted to do like hard things, difficult things, including celibacy and be a part of like

00:28:44.380 this most strict order, something I knew something wasn't right, but I had gone in so deeply,

00:28:51.720 I think culturally, socially, and then I became a more, more and more public figure.

00:28:56.800 Um, they made me a superior, as they call it in the religious order.

00:29:02.000 So I was like leading other guys.

00:29:03.760 And then I started working, um, I worked with Mel Gibson and Jim Caviezel and the film of

00:29:10.500 the passion of the Christ.

00:29:11.580 And it became kind of public through that.

00:29:13.640 And then with CNN and Fox and all this stuff.

00:29:16.660 And so I felt, and this is, I think this is a human experience, not just mine.

00:29:22.140 It's, I don't want to let people down.

00:29:26.360 Um, I don't want to let the people's expectations of me down, um, especially because I saw that

00:29:36.280 I was doing some good and this is, this is the conflict, right?

00:29:42.640 I'm doing some good and yet it's doesn't feel right for me.

00:29:49.780 There's another layer of it.

00:29:51.100 When, whenever you're going to leave a profession that you've been attached to for a long time,

00:29:54.540 I think it's hard because your identity gets wrapped up in said profession, even if it's

00:29:58.840 not something where you're doing a ton of good, um, like lawyering, but so that that's

00:30:04.360 there.

00:30:04.480 But with you, it is an extra layer because people have this special relationship with

00:30:09.280 their priest or their minister or their rabbi, you're up on a pedestal, you know, they look

00:30:14.240 up to you, they, they rely on you for life advice and religious guidance.

00:30:19.080 And I think the pressure must've been especially immense on you not to leave that post.

00:30:25.640 And in essence, put yourself first, you know, which is what most people do their whole lives,

00:30:30.500 but a priest, maybe not.

00:30:32.260 Yeah.

00:30:32.580 And I think there was some, oh, you said it exactly right, Megan, no doubt.

00:30:36.620 Like being put up on a pedestal, all of that.

00:30:40.280 And some of it I think, um, is just really wrong.

00:30:43.400 And the church needs to go through major convergent transformation from it.

00:30:47.800 Some of it was my own fault for allowing myself to actually believe that that was true.

00:30:52.500 Um, and that I was special.

00:30:55.300 Um, and I think I'm special because I'm, I'm a individual created by God out of love, but

00:31:00.820 not because I had a certain position, um, or even that I was ordained.

00:31:06.060 Um, I was different, but not special, so to speak, but I found that, um, and maybe we can

00:31:13.560 talk about this later, um, in my new work that I'm doing now professionally as an executive

00:31:18.500 coach and working in leadership development, um, a, a kind of a solution to that, um, of

00:31:25.040 that quandary, right.

00:31:26.080 Of wanting to do good, but at the same time, recognizing that I have to take care of myself.

00:31:32.100 And I believe deeply that if I'm flourishing as a human being, I am glorifying God.

00:31:38.480 That makes sense, right?

00:31:40.040 If I'm flourishing as a human being, I am glorifying God.

00:31:44.140 Yeah.

00:31:44.700 Well, I mean, I think most of us on the outside feel that.

00:31:50.320 And I just think there's so much pressure on someone like you who makes a noble choice

00:31:54.280 to serve God in a special way to just always do it in that way.

00:31:58.620 So I'm, I'm happy for you as I was, when you told me you were leaving.

00:32:02.100 Um, that you recognize you needed something else and were, were brave enough to act on

00:32:06.840 it.

00:32:07.420 I'm sure not everyone in, in the priesthood felt the same.

00:32:13.220 Did you, did you hear from any of them?

00:32:15.300 Did you get, did anybody give you a hard time?

00:32:18.320 Yeah, some did.

00:32:19.420 Some people, you know, cut me off.

00:32:21.780 Um, some people wrote articles about me as if I was like, and trust me, I know that you've

00:32:29.280 experienced this 10 times of what I have.

00:32:32.640 Um, people wrote articles about me as if I, as if they never knew me or as if I were not

00:32:37.980 a real person.

00:32:38.800 It just commented on you.

00:32:40.260 Like you were some sort of object in the room that had no feelings and no sentiments

00:32:45.920 and, um, never even tried to reach out to me to understand or anything.

00:32:52.280 Um, but that's part of the price you paid, uh, for being in the public.

00:32:56.480 So I get it.

00:32:58.380 I always, it took me years to realize this, but I did come to the point of realizing there

00:33:03.440 is, um, in my case, there's Megan Kelly, the me, and then there's Megan Kelly, the brand,

00:33:10.720 which is totally fair game for criticism, you know, and I, and whenever I read stuff

00:33:16.600 about myself, I don't like, I have to remind myself that's the brand that I've put out

00:33:20.440 there.

00:33:20.660 Not, not everyone knows or cares to know my heart and who I really am.

00:33:24.440 So you can't take it as though they do.

00:33:27.180 Right.

00:33:27.600 You just got to remember that that's FJ, the brand that they don't, they don't really

00:33:32.240 know anything about you.

00:33:33.360 Right.

00:33:33.740 The people who did were rooting for you.

00:33:35.860 Yeah.

00:33:36.680 Yeah, absolutely.

00:33:37.660 So did you have to tell, did you have to tell Cardinal Dolan, you know, I mean, I know

00:33:41.380 he gave you like a little time to think about it, but did you have to walk in there one day

00:33:45.480 and say, CD, I'm out of here.

00:33:49.700 Peace out.

00:33:50.480 I did.

00:33:51.060 I did get, got to the point.

00:33:53.160 It was probably two o'clock in the morning when I sent him the email, um, because I wanted

00:33:58.440 to put it all on paper before I talked to him because I didn't want to be convinced

00:34:02.640 otherwise.

00:34:04.460 Right.

00:34:04.860 Um, and so I put it all down, I spent time thinking about it, um, but it was two in the

00:34:10.100 morning and then I took that same email that I sent to him, um, and I forwarded to all of

00:34:18.980 my siblings, not to my mom and dad, so I didn't want to put them in their grave, but I sent

00:34:25.560 it to all of my siblings and said, um, this is what I'm going to do.

00:34:31.000 Um, and I basically asked for a sabbatical and I told him my whole story.

00:34:36.020 I told him what was going on in my life.

00:34:40.320 Um, and it was a shock to him because I was very close to him and he had given me a lot

00:34:45.520 of responsibility.

00:34:46.240 I was running two parishes in the Bronx at the time I was overseeing as co-chairman of, um,

00:34:51.820 14 schools in the Bronx.

00:34:54.200 Um, I was doing a lot and, um, it was, it was hard, but he was so good to me.

00:35:02.740 He said, Jonathan, I think I have a person who could fill in for you.

00:35:07.180 Don't wait until next month or two months from now to take a sabbatical, um, leave this

00:35:12.860 weekend.

00:35:13.800 And I did.

00:35:14.520 Wow.

00:35:15.720 He wasn't disappointed at all in you?

00:35:17.940 He was, but I got to the point that I was okay with people being disappointed, but, but

00:35:24.580 people's not the same as wait, Colonel Dolan.

00:35:27.620 I mean, that must've been hard.

00:35:31.360 Yeah, but it's still other people's expectations.

00:35:35.980 Right.

00:35:36.560 And that's, that's the point I think.

00:35:39.180 And they can, they can have different, like my mom's expectations are higher than your expectations

00:35:46.140 of me.

00:35:46.640 I could deal with Megan Kelly's expectations of me, even though that's, that wasn't hard

00:35:50.920 either.

00:35:51.240 I baptized your three kids.

00:35:53.020 That's right.

00:35:53.660 Right.

00:35:54.380 And you were like, I don't want to know if that's still legitimate.

00:35:56.700 Yeah.

00:35:57.240 I do just want to make perfectly sure we're still good.

00:36:00.880 It is.

00:36:02.400 So, and I think, so I had to deal with all of that.

00:36:05.980 Right.

00:36:06.280 And the, the priests who I were, I was living with and like, like leading the two parishes,

00:36:12.300 the, everyone on Fox news, the management at Fox, the, um, all the people who, you know,

00:36:20.300 listen to, or read my books, all of, and then Cardinal Dolan.

00:36:25.780 But I'm not saying, I'm just saying everybody has that in their life.

00:36:30.060 Right.

00:36:31.380 Your expectations of your spouse, the expectations of your children, um, expectations of your

00:36:37.780 boss.

00:36:39.100 So who is the toughest one to tell?

00:36:41.680 Cardinal Dolan, I would say.

00:36:43.680 More than your parents?

00:36:45.480 Yeah.

00:36:46.420 Yeah.

00:36:46.900 So they came around to it.

00:36:48.960 Yeah.

00:36:49.360 Because in the end, parents, you think about your kids, Megan, right?

00:36:54.020 No matter what they tell you, like they're your kids, right?

00:36:58.820 Cardinal Dolan, you know, was my boss and a friend, but a boss.

00:37:03.920 Yeah.

00:37:04.420 And you were on the inner circle.

00:37:05.640 I mean, he had really taken you in, uh, and promoted you and believed in you.

00:37:10.180 So it's, it's even tougher there, but you know, what everybody wants to know is, cause

00:37:15.160 I know you've said publicly, I, this is how you put it in your letter that you released

00:37:20.020 in May of 2019.

00:37:21.340 I've struggled for years with my vocation and with the commitments that the Catholic 0.98

00:37:25.320 priesthood demands, especially not being able to marry and have a family in response

00:37:30.760 to which everyone said, even though you said my decision's not about an existing relationship,

00:37:34.920 but everybody was like, he's got a girlfriend or a boyfriend.

00:37:38.620 None of us knew.

00:37:39.260 I mean, we know, how would we know?

00:37:41.320 Um, but that's what everybody thought that you had started a relationship.

00:37:44.080 And that's why you were leaving.

00:37:46.300 But was that true?

00:37:47.980 No.

00:37:48.740 Oh, it, it's, it was, I mean, it was true.

00:37:51.120 What I wrote, I did not have a relationship, um, that I was pursuing in any way, or that

00:37:58.000 I was hoping to continue in any way.

00:38:00.600 That was, that was absolutely true.

00:38:03.600 You didn't have like even a dalliance before.

00:38:06.320 No, I mentioned, um, very publicly too, you know, and I told this Cardinal Dolan and I'd

00:38:12.920 mentioned this, um, with, um, Megan, um, sorry, Martha McCollum show, you know, I said, um,

00:38:20.320 part of the manipulation by the religious order that I, um, was a part of is at, at one point,

00:38:28.240 even before I was ordained, I did have, um, as you say, a parlance or a relationship with

00:38:34.820 someone that was fleeting.

00:38:35.740 And, um, and I went and I said, I do not want to be ordained a priest.

00:38:40.020 I, this is not for me.

00:38:41.360 This is not.

00:38:42.500 Um, and they, instead of saying, okay, they were like, um, no, that's okay.

00:38:49.220 Don't worry about it.

00:38:50.180 That never happened.

00:38:50.820 And, and they promoted me two years ahead and they made me a superior of the order.

00:38:55.380 Um, it just shows the manipulation that was there.

00:38:59.100 So, um, yes, I struggled and I put that out.

00:39:03.160 I think publicly I didn't, I didn't do like this general confession in which I, um, which

00:39:08.000 I don't think is helpful or necessary by, by anyone.

00:39:10.980 No, but that was, that was 20 years earlier and you weren't officially ordained.

00:39:15.560 I was thinking like when you were getting ready to jump off the diving board and say, okay,

00:39:20.320 I'm out of here.

00:39:21.280 There wasn't like, I just feel like there would be like, maybe I'll just try it first

00:39:26.920 before I take this big leap that didn't happen.

00:39:29.460 Yeah, no, Caitlin, Caitlin will be, will be brought in soon. 0.81

00:39:33.060 I'm sure.

00:39:33.940 But, um, we had, we had no, you know, when I left and I asked for the sabbatical, I was

00:39:40.200 a hundred percent totally free, um, to still consider coming back.

00:39:45.220 And Cardinal Dolan was encouraging me to come back.

00:39:48.360 Um, and he just basically said, take it slowly, take it slowly.

00:39:52.660 And I did.

00:39:54.160 But as soon as I left, I basically knew deep down, this is something that is, if Pope Francis

00:40:00.080 gives me a dispensation, um, I'm going to take it.

00:40:03.400 Um, but I took time.

00:40:04.360 I took four months, um, and it went back, lived with my parents.

00:40:08.820 Imagine at the age of 46 years old, going back and living with your parents and not knowing

00:40:13.680 what you're going to do for a job, for anything.

00:40:16.300 And also you had to be a little afraid.

00:40:18.700 I mean, that you weren't going to have any moves with the ladies, right? 0.87

00:40:21.120 Did you have to, did you worry about that at all?

00:40:23.160 Like, am I going to be smooth?

00:40:26.120 Oh no, I didn't know about that in the sense that I listened.

00:40:30.740 No worries.

00:40:34.280 No, it's not that, but I knew that.

00:40:36.540 And I mean, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't 23.

00:40:39.820 I, I was, I recognized that this was a serious thing that I, I also saw so many marriages

00:40:47.120 struggle.

00:40:48.540 I knew it wasn't like I was leaving the priesthood for some fairy tale.

00:40:53.140 I knew that it wasn't easy.

00:40:54.760 I knew that dating was, um, especially at my age, what am I going to do there?

00:40:58.660 Um, date somebody who is, um, divorced and remarried or somebody who's 22 or somebody

00:41:06.540 who's 58 and who's never been married or Caitlin, who was perfect.

00:41:12.020 Um, and I didn't know if I would find that person, but I did.

00:41:17.040 All right.

00:41:17.600 More with father, Jonathan.

00:41:18.660 I mean, Jonathan and Caitlin in just one second.

00:41:21.320 And this is the segment of the interview where I'm going to ask them all the inappropriate,

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00:43:05.740 Okay.

00:43:06.120 Before we get back to our guests, I want to bring you a segment we call real talk here

00:43:09.940 on the Megan Kelly show.

00:43:10.960 And that's where we're just talking about anything that we think is interesting.

00:43:13.860 Well, listen, it being Christmas, I wanted to tell you about two Christmas movies that

00:43:18.740 I never miss.

00:43:19.480 And in case you haven't seen them, one of them, you have one of them, you might not, you

00:43:23.940 still have time, right?

00:43:25.420 Cause we've got today to just loaf around and watch movies and maybe a little football,

00:43:29.000 but just take it easy.

00:43:30.240 Okay.

00:43:30.460 One is it's a wonderful life.

00:43:32.260 And you've seen that, but you may not have seen it the way we, we watch it.

00:43:35.760 My family and I treat this movie as the Rocky who are a picture show and we, we all get

00:43:40.860 our Santa's hats on.

00:43:42.940 We get bells.

00:43:44.820 Everybody has bells.

00:43:45.980 We get salt.

00:43:47.000 We get bread and we get ready and we sit in front of it.

00:43:50.440 And whenever a Clarence comes on, we ring our bells.

00:43:54.800 Um, whenever George does, he, or his friend, Sam, right?

00:43:58.420 Uh, Sam, whatever his name is, does his, he, we do it.

00:44:01.420 Um, whenever Mr. Potter comes on, we, yes.

00:44:05.500 And then when Mr. Marini has the new house, we throw salt and bread and it's super fun.

00:44:12.980 It's just like a, it's like a fun way of enjoying a classic movie and getting your kids into

00:44:19.120 George Bailey and his life.

00:44:20.460 Cause who doesn't love that movie?

00:44:22.240 Although on the young ones, it's a little long and you know, this will make them love

00:44:25.540 it.

00:44:25.720 It's just super fun.

00:44:26.760 And my second suggestion to you is Christmas in Connecticut.

00:44:30.940 So Christmas in Connecticut is a 1947, I think Barbara Stanwyck film where Barbara Stanwyck

00:44:36.400 was young and it's black and white and it's one of her lesser known films, but it's this

00:44:41.900 classic holiday film that will make you feel like you've done a little time travel.

00:44:46.680 They've got the horse drawn carriages in the snowy meadow and the way she dresses is so

00:44:53.980 beautiful and elegant and the farm that she's allegedly at, uh, in Connecticut over the

00:45:00.940 holidays is perfection.

00:45:03.200 And you could watch the whole thing with a sound down, frankly, because it's really just

00:45:06.520 the visuals of the movie that, I don't know, just make you feel incredibly good, especially

00:45:10.560 on Christmas day.

00:45:11.300 So I never miss putting that on.

00:45:13.000 And I hope if you do it, you enjoy it too.

00:45:15.680 Back to Jonathan and Caitlin.

00:45:20.300 That's the perfect, uh, point at which to bring in your now beautiful wife, Caitlin's, 0.98

00:45:25.480 as you know, still he, she's with us.

00:45:27.680 And so Caitlin, welcome back.

00:45:29.620 Just so the audience knows you're from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

00:45:32.560 You went to NYU, majored in journalism and were at the time you met FFJ and, um, and now, uh,

00:45:42.300 are a successful producer and booker at good morning America.

00:45:44.720 You work for ABC news.

00:45:45.980 Yes.

00:45:46.140 I work in ABC in the investigative unit now.

00:45:48.280 So when I met John, I, I worked at good morning America.

00:45:51.860 And, um, when we were, when, um, Pope Benedict resigned and they flew like 20, 30 people over

00:45:59.480 from New York to cover this.

00:46:00.840 And I was one of them.

00:46:02.100 And so we were all in Rome for weeks covering the conclave.

00:46:05.980 That was 2013, right?

00:46:08.540 2013.

00:46:10.260 So you met him, you met him first in Rome.

00:46:12.740 Yeah.

00:46:13.520 Now, what were, do you remember having any sort of reaction to him when you met him first?

00:46:16.840 No, I just think like, you know, he was, there was, I've never seen so many priests in my

00:46:21.180 entire life running around Rome.

00:46:24.280 Everyone was a priest and growing up evangelical.

00:46:26.780 I just, you don't like go out and drink wine with your pastor.

00:46:30.640 So it was just like a whole different, different kind of world over there.

00:46:33.580 But, um, I, um, met him when I was trying to book all the Cardinals on all the morning

00:46:39.460 shows.

00:46:39.800 Right.

00:46:40.080 So that was like the competition and everybody wanted Cardinal Dolan on.

00:46:43.360 And so I would, that was one of the people I would go to.

00:46:46.840 I was saying, can we please have an interview with him tomorrow morning, um, with George

00:46:50.540 Stephanopoulos or one of our anchors.

00:46:52.520 So that's how, um, I first was introduced to then father Jonathan.

00:46:57.160 Is it funny for you now, looking back at those moments where you were soliciting him as a

00:47:01.320 booker to think, you know, if, if you, if somebody could have tapped you on the shoulder

00:47:05.040 and told you, you're going to wind up married to him.

00:47:07.580 Can you imagine?

00:47:08.400 No, it's so crazy.

00:47:10.740 Megan, this whole life I'm living is just, it's, it is almost too good to be true.

00:47:15.320 I say that to John all the time, but I, um, I feel so blessed.

00:47:19.100 Like every day I wake up so happy.

00:47:21.400 Um, I know there's a lot of heartache right now with what's happening in 2020 and the pandemic,

00:47:25.560 but we have managed to find such joy and happiness, um, in our family.

00:47:30.300 And it's, it's, and it's so much is rooted in him and what he's brought into my life.

00:47:35.800 So, yeah, it is so crazy.

00:47:37.400 No, I, someone had told me that seven years ago, I would have laughed.

00:47:41.320 I'm feeling it just listening to you because what I'm picturing is the, the couple I saw

00:47:45.900 walking on air at your wedding.

00:47:48.460 So I can feel it even, even though we can't see each other.

00:47:51.460 All right.

00:47:51.920 So have you ever seen the thorn birds?

00:47:55.360 You know, you asked me that at the reception and I was like, I haven't seen that, but I've

00:48:00.700 seen fleabags.

00:48:02.020 And so we've watched that together, but I haven't seen the thorn birds.

00:48:05.760 You still have not watched it.

00:48:07.500 I mean, I, you, you, now listen, he, he never left the priesthood.

00:48:10.980 I'm sorry, spoiler, but, um, you, you're like his, the Meggie to his father, Ralph.

00:48:17.340 Every woman in America, when they watch thorn birds was totally rooting for him to leave 1.00

00:48:20.720 the priesthood and be with his girl.

00:48:24.160 Okay.

00:48:24.700 So no thorn birds.

00:48:26.320 No thorn birds.

00:48:27.600 Okay.

00:48:27.920 No.

00:48:28.260 So the next time you saw him was when after 2013?

00:48:34.360 Um, so he asked me on a date.

00:48:36.960 We went on a date on my birthday.

00:48:38.460 This was after he had made the announcement, he left and he did his interview on Fox and

00:48:43.340 then I heard from him and he asked me out to lunch.

00:48:47.160 And so just like out of the blue, you heard from him out of the blue, like you saw him

00:48:50.460 on Fox.

00:48:51.180 Well, so I had, so when he made his announcement in May, um, he had at the bottom of it, you

00:48:57.820 know, for members of the media, you can reach me at this email address.

00:49:01.280 I won't be responding, but you know, this is, he was trying to traffic it ahead of time.

00:49:05.380 Right.

00:49:05.600 And so I, because I'm a booker at heart, let's be honest.

00:49:08.800 I was like, okay, I'll reach out to him.

00:49:10.420 Dear father, Jonathan, do you remember, probably don't remember me, but, um, I met you in Rome

00:49:15.040 and I just wanted to say congratulations on your next steps and we're all cheering for

00:49:18.660 you.

00:49:19.740 Best wishes, Caitlin Fulmer.

00:49:21.420 Um, but was that, was that as a booker?

00:49:23.660 Was that like genuinely wishing him goodwill or was that like, well, he's free now?

00:49:26.860 I'm wishing him goodwill.

00:49:28.000 I'm gay.

00:49:28.600 I mean, I, and listen, I spent my, all my life single.

00:49:31.260 I was going to probably be destined to be a news nun basically, uh, you know, working

00:49:35.520 and I know I knew you would get that, that reference.

00:49:38.460 I was like, don't say that.

00:49:39.580 No one will understand that.

00:49:40.680 But I was like, I was just jumping on planes and traveling and that was my life and that

00:49:45.880 was my love.

00:49:46.680 And so, yeah, when I sent that, I mean, I'm not going to lie and say, okay, I was just

00:49:50.940 doing it to try to book him on the view or something.

00:49:53.120 No, I was just genuinely interested too in hearing what his next steps were.

00:49:56.660 Cause when I read that too, I thought, oh, that's interesting.

00:49:58.660 I wonder what, what's the real deal here?

00:50:01.000 Where is he going?

00:50:01.780 And it turns out he really did just want something new and then he followed it and he had the guts

00:50:06.560 to do it.

00:50:07.100 And so, um, it was exciting that I got to meet him and have lunch.

00:50:11.000 So, so, so how did he, how did, did he respond to that email or what did he do?

00:50:15.400 No, he didn't.

00:50:16.500 He did not respond.

00:50:17.620 So I was like, okay, that's fine.

00:50:19.200 Um, I'm sure he's getting a thousand emails.

00:50:21.380 You're like, no, it's no problem.

00:50:22.520 He's going to hell anyway.

00:50:23.440 So it's really, so, so, but, so, but I was in, um, he found me on Twitter.

00:50:30.620 That's what it was.

00:50:31.340 So I guess like maybe a week after I sent that email, I get a direct message, a DM in my,

00:50:37.680 in my inbox, he slid into my DMs and his line was, he was like, Hey, um, Jonathan Moore

00:50:44.180 is here.

00:50:44.920 I don't know if you saw the news.

00:50:46.640 I just left the priesthood.

00:50:48.160 I'm so happy.

00:50:48.960 How are you?

00:50:50.220 And so I think I have it memorized because I've shared it with my girlfriend so many

00:50:53.780 times.

00:50:54.620 John, honey, you're oddly quiet right now.

00:50:57.140 Um, so anyhow, we, um, I learned to let my wife speak. 0.99

00:51:03.440 This is spectacular.

00:51:05.280 So wait, so I just left the priesthood.

00:51:09.080 Yeah.

00:51:09.400 Did he say anything like, um, I'm, you know, I I've got the blessing of Cardinal Dole.

00:51:13.180 Like, did he say anything like, we're going to be good with the big guy up above?

00:51:15.820 No, it was pretty, it was like three lines.

00:51:18.300 He was straight to the voice.

00:51:19.720 Like, I love the priesthood.

00:51:21.240 I'm so happy.

00:51:21.980 How are you?

00:51:22.940 And I was like, Oh my goodness.

00:51:25.080 And so my initial response is, okay, I sent you an email and you didn't read it.

00:51:29.420 So that was my response.

00:51:30.840 He's like, Oh, um, actually this is the email.

00:51:33.480 You should send it to this one.

00:51:34.520 So he has like a secret email account.

00:51:35.980 So then I sent it to that.

00:51:36.980 And then that's what started the whole, Oh, let's grab lunch.

00:51:40.100 And so that's what happened.

00:51:41.760 He took me out.

00:51:42.160 Wait a minute.

00:51:42.680 Wait a minute.

00:51:43.060 Let's back up.

00:51:43.900 Wait, let's back up.

00:51:45.280 Jonathan, have you received that email?

00:51:47.480 Did you see that email that Caitlin sent you?

00:51:50.720 No, no, I did not.

00:51:52.080 And honestly, in two days, I think I received over 25,000 emails from the craziest people.

00:51:59.000 And then there were normal people like Caitlin, um, who sent me emails, most of whom were just

00:52:04.680 um, reacting in a very, very gracious way about my decision, but no, I did not see that

00:52:10.800 email and I did not ask her out.

00:52:13.600 It was not a date.

00:52:14.720 I was asking her to lunch.

00:52:17.080 Okay.

00:52:17.740 Those of us in the real world know what you were asking for.

00:52:20.680 We know it was a date.

00:52:21.840 Don't try to fool us.

00:52:23.140 Do not try to fool us.

00:52:24.620 Wait a minute.

00:52:25.320 Are you telling me without having seen her email, you just spontaneously reached out to

00:52:31.220 it's, I mean, you know, somebody might call that divine intervention.

00:52:35.240 I mean, it's, it's amazing.

00:52:37.080 Providence.

00:52:37.700 Providence.

00:52:38.320 Yeah.

00:52:38.900 I mean, he doesn't even know.

00:52:40.320 I could have been married with 10 kids living in Connecticut with a picket fence.

00:52:43.800 He had no idea.

00:52:44.540 He hasn't, I haven't seen him in seven years or six years since then.

00:52:47.680 So, I mean, but I guess he kind of assumed I wasn't.

00:52:51.100 Back to you, Caitlin, back to you.

00:52:52.760 So every single friend must have been like, holy, right?

00:52:57.380 Like, I can't, I do swear, but I can't do it in front of a friend.

00:53:00.100 I know, I know I actually thought that too.

00:53:02.140 I shouldn't do that.

00:53:02.820 But I know what you're going to say.

00:53:03.740 Yeah.

00:53:03.880 They totally thought the same thing.

00:53:05.680 They, this is perfect.

00:53:07.720 So, yeah.

00:53:08.700 Were they excited?

00:53:10.040 Yeah.

00:53:10.460 Cause it's like a great looking, he was what?

00:53:13.060 46 at the time.

00:53:14.040 He's 47, 47, 46.

00:53:15.820 So a great looking, never before married, 46 year old, ethical, moral, upstanding member

00:53:21.480 of the community.

00:53:22.000 Who's got, you know, outside of being a priest, great jobs, basically emails.

00:53:26.940 He was like, Hey, let's go out.

00:53:28.120 I mean, this is every unmarried 36 year old woman's dream.

00:53:31.700 On my birthday.

00:53:32.500 He took me out on my birthday.

00:53:34.160 I know.

00:53:34.620 Isn't that crazy?

00:53:35.580 So yeah, it is again.

00:53:37.580 So it is a fairy tale.

00:53:39.220 My mom used to, he was like a couple of years before, you know, I met John.

00:53:42.580 She was like, I really think you're, you have this idea of a fairy tale.

00:53:45.760 I'm not sure it's going to come true.

00:53:46.880 I just don't want you to be disappointed.

00:53:48.580 Well, she's now come full circle and said, I'm glad you never stopped believing because

00:53:51.980 they really do come true in the form of Jonathan.

00:53:55.100 Jonathan, so it was a business lunch.

00:53:57.980 Yeah.

00:53:58.180 Okay.

00:53:58.400 Liz, he's still going with that.

00:53:59.800 Okay.

00:54:00.140 We've moved past that.

00:54:01.460 Okay.

00:54:02.340 Here's the most important thing.

00:54:04.080 After the lunch, I did not hear from him for about four weeks or three weeks.

00:54:09.380 He just like didn't even follow up.

00:54:10.720 Didn't, didn't.

00:54:11.420 Yep.

00:54:12.080 So I thought, Oh, he's just, he really isn't interested.

00:54:14.220 He probably is, you know, and he shouldn't, he should go.

00:54:16.480 And I thought he should go out and date.

00:54:18.120 You know, he's, he's got, he's been in the pre-strip for so long, like go out.

00:54:22.340 He's got some, got some oats to sow.

00:54:25.520 That's the way to put it.

00:54:26.760 But, um, yeah, I did not hear from him for many weeks.

00:54:29.740 So were you thinking, okay, Cardinal Dolan won?

00:54:32.660 Like, or are you thinking, what were you thinking?

00:54:35.280 No, cause he had already done his interview and he was going for it.

00:54:37.980 I just figured he was probably busy.

00:54:40.060 He wasn't interested.

00:54:41.380 I don't know.

00:54:42.260 And thank you, you know, this is where your girlfriend step in and they say, do not write 0.57

00:54:45.560 to him, like if a guy like, it's like that movie, you know, but it's like, if a guy wants

00:54:51.180 to be with you, he will make it known.

00:54:52.900 And so he will make it happen.

00:54:54.520 So I didn't text him.

00:54:56.360 And then the next time I got a text from him, um, it was, I was like, I was with Jeffrey

00:55:02.160 Epstein's victims in federal court downtown being chased by the paparazzi and all the crazy

00:55:06.900 media.

00:55:07.360 And I get this text message from a new phone number and it's, Hey, John, John Morris here.

00:55:13.540 Um, here's my new phone number.

00:55:15.560 Just wanted to check in or something like that.

00:55:17.520 And so that was how we kind of reconnected after that.

00:55:20.500 But I will say after he did reach out to me, then there hadn't been, there was never a

00:55:24.800 day that went by where I didn't hear from him.

00:55:26.800 You know, when we were dating, he would always take the time to text or to call or FaceTime

00:55:31.340 and reach out.

00:55:32.200 So it's like he, I can totally forgive him from those, those weeks.

00:55:36.200 Yes.

00:55:36.840 And now it's ancient history.

00:55:38.320 So John, I'm, I'm working with it.

00:55:40.880 Tell me this.

00:55:41.760 Did you date anyone other than Caitlin in your, you know, time off?

00:55:47.380 I did.

00:55:48.480 Yeah.

00:55:48.980 Nobody.

00:55:50.380 Uh, seriously.

00:55:51.600 I think Caitlin, you know, I've talked to Caitlin about, and she encouraged me actually.

00:55:56.140 She's like, she's like, date.

00:55:58.600 Although one time she encouraged me and then I actually took her up on it.

00:56:01.520 This is like right before we started going out seriously.

00:56:03.660 And then she's like, oh, you are not actually supposed to do that.

00:56:08.960 But anyway, that's another issue.

00:56:12.540 It's hard because no woman really wants a guy she's interested in to be, you know, dating 0.98

00:56:17.240 around.

00:56:17.880 But in your case, I don't know.

00:56:21.180 Like, yeah, I'm not sure.

00:56:22.920 Caitlin was great about it.

00:56:23.820 She was honestly saying, listen, um, you, I recognize, you know, that this is a big change

00:56:29.780 in your life and, um, this is all very fast and she did encourage me to date other people

00:56:35.900 and I did.

00:56:37.320 So you, this is, so I know you had your first dinner on July 21st.

00:56:41.580 I did actually read the New York times profile on you.

00:56:43.780 I'm, I'm feigning ignorance on some of these things.

00:56:45.720 Um, but the New York times told me, this is how it was phrased.

00:56:50.280 And I quote in October, they turned a serious corner and it was Mr. Morris who suggested they

00:56:57.060 take their relationship to the next level.

00:56:59.940 So is that when you first slept together?

00:57:03.320 Oh gosh.

00:57:05.300 Uh, Megan, again, I might not be able to, I can still hear your confession.

00:57:10.700 I just can't do anything about it, but you definitely can't do anything about my confession.

00:57:15.720 So we're just going to leave it at that.

00:57:17.600 This is about your sin, not mine.

00:57:20.040 Finally.

00:57:22.580 All right.

00:57:23.040 Let me ask it this way.

00:57:24.280 Let me ask it this way.

00:57:24.900 I know you said you had the girlfriend when you, before you got ordained, there was a,

00:57:28.340 there was a girl.

00:57:28.760 So like, I'm going to assume you went into the relationship.

00:57:30.660 Megan, I know where you're going.

00:57:31.780 Yeah.

00:57:32.140 Come on.

00:57:32.720 I mean, were you, were you a 46 year old version or not?

00:57:36.320 I was not.

00:57:38.100 Okay, good.

00:57:38.960 All right, good.

00:57:39.420 So you had a move or two.

00:57:40.820 Again, we know each other too well.

00:57:43.020 Like, I mean, like I know where you're going.

00:57:46.280 This is what everybody wants to know.

00:57:48.180 I mean, it's like, I, I want to know what it was like for Caitlin too, because I think I'd

00:57:52.960 be a little scared, like there'd be a lot of pressure on me to like, I don't know, rock

00:57:57.160 his world.

00:57:58.220 How did that feel for you, Caitlin?

00:57:59.760 Not, not like the specific, but like, what emotions?

00:58:03.580 Oh, I can't.

00:58:04.320 I mean, John's dying right now because he calls me no filter, Kate.

00:58:08.080 He calls me no filter, Kate.

00:58:09.340 And he's like, oh, you know, because I just say what's on my mind.

00:58:12.480 And so this is like his worst nightmare, but I will be good, babe.

00:58:15.020 And no, I will.

00:58:15.820 Caitlin, did you know that I know, I know Megan Kelly's husband.

00:58:19.260 He's a great guy named Doug.

00:58:20.860 Excellent.

00:58:21.620 Good friend.

00:58:22.960 Great guy.

00:58:24.040 Excellent.

00:58:25.240 I'm trying to think of other topics here.

00:58:27.240 Getting out of bounds entirely.

00:58:29.200 Okay.

00:58:29.860 So it, it went well, obviously some test was passed because then you got married.

00:58:35.240 Um, all right.

00:58:35.960 So who proposed to whom?

00:58:37.880 He proposed.

00:58:39.000 He surprised me.

00:58:39.760 I was very shocked.

00:58:41.240 How did it happen?

00:58:42.060 I, he, um, he told me that we're going to be out in San Diego.

00:58:46.760 This is like in June, it was right after my birthday.

00:58:49.300 So it was like our one year anniversary of our first date.

00:58:51.280 And he took me, he said, we're going to some dinner and I was all dressed up and I had done,

00:58:55.880 you know, brush my hair and put on makeup.

00:58:57.680 So I looked decent, which was a good thing because you can ask me to marry him.

00:59:01.640 And I had no idea.

00:59:02.760 Um, I think when, so we, we went up to this like beautiful mountain golf, like on a golf

00:59:08.120 course overlooking the San Diego Valley and the ocean.

00:59:11.180 And then he, um, I was like, I was trying to hug him and he backed away and I'm like,

00:59:17.360 what is he doing?

00:59:18.400 And then, um, he got on one knee and I was like, oh my gosh, what's happening?

00:59:22.540 And I was like, oh my God, oh my God, what's happening?

00:59:24.500 And then he asked me, and then I looked at him, I said, are you sure?

00:59:28.820 And then he's like, yes, I'm sure.

00:59:31.040 Of course I am.

00:59:32.200 I said, okay.

00:59:33.120 All right.

00:59:33.480 As long as you're sure.

00:59:34.160 Yes, of course I'll marry you.

00:59:35.320 But it took me a good, I think I had to wrap my mind around it for a moment, but, um,

00:59:40.280 it was, it was aside from my wedding day, the happiest day, I couldn't stop smiling.

00:59:43.920 And he had everything prepared.

00:59:45.560 He had a bottle of champagne up there.

00:59:46.840 He had a photographer hiding in the bushes who caught all the photos and the moments.

00:59:51.440 And then, um, he took me to a lovely French dinner afterwards.

00:59:55.340 So, um, it was really a dream.

00:59:57.800 He did a good job.

00:59:58.720 Wow.

00:59:59.660 I had the moves.

01:00:01.800 Well, I mean, that was a good day.

01:00:03.820 I was kind of referring to different moves, but we'll talk later.

01:00:07.620 Maybe off the record, off the record with wine, Megan.

01:00:12.380 That's right.

01:00:12.920 Done.

01:00:13.600 Totally.

01:00:14.860 I will still all.

01:00:16.400 Um, so, so you get married and it was an amazing, amazing ceremony.

01:00:21.800 You truly were, both of you were, looked like you were on cloud nine and it happened to be,

01:00:27.280 it was on October 17th at St. Patrick's Cathedral.

01:00:30.260 I mean, of all places, it's the, it's a place of honor in the Catholic church.

01:00:35.200 It's Cardinal Dolan's church, his pad.

01:00:37.900 And he was there.

01:00:40.080 I think that's so beautiful.

01:00:41.580 I mean, honestly, were you so touched because you wound up getting his blessing?

01:00:47.100 Yeah.

01:00:47.420 It was just more, uh, transparency.

01:00:50.760 I think, you know, we, I think the day after we got engaged, we called him and we asked him

01:00:56.380 to marry us.

01:00:58.100 He said yes.

01:00:59.080 And he suggested St. Patrick's Cathedral.

01:01:01.200 And I think later there was some pushback by members of the clergy, probably like, how

01:01:07.420 could this be celebrated in this way?

01:01:10.020 And this, um, but, um, and so that, as it turned out, the rector of the cathedral, a good

01:01:15.580 friend of ours, Vincenia Ritchie presided at the wedding, but Cardinal Dolan, um, decided

01:01:20.980 to be there as well.

01:01:22.240 And, you know, we said, Cardinal Dolan, we understand this is very public.

01:01:25.820 Why don't we go and meet you in the rectory, you know, after afterwards, which is where

01:01:31.400 he resides.

01:01:33.180 And, um, he said, no, I'll meet you, um, outside the church.

01:01:36.940 And we came walking down the aisle right after this ceremony in St. Patrick's Cathedral down

01:01:44.000 the center aisle.

01:01:45.080 And he was there at the back of the aisle, right at the front, at the, you know, entrance

01:01:49.900 to the church, um, waiting for us with his mask on and his arms outstretched.

01:01:56.180 And it was, it was a very moving moment for sure.

01:02:00.280 Cardinal Dolan has always reached out to me and made me feel welcome.

01:02:03.560 Um, you know, like when we first started dating, John took me over to his apartment.

01:02:07.500 He hosted us and we drank martinis in his living room.

01:02:10.160 And he talked to me, wanted to know me and get to know me and ask me questions.

01:02:13.960 And, um, he just, he, I say to him that, um, you are really good for Christianity and for

01:02:20.540 the church because you make being a Christian look attractive and joyful.

01:02:24.760 There's a joy there when you see him.

01:02:26.720 And I said, then that's, that's, you know, that's a good thing for the church.

01:02:30.040 Um, and we always enjoy our time with him and he has made a point to get to know us as

01:02:36.900 a couple.

01:02:37.240 And that means a lot.

01:02:38.200 And then obviously that was culminated by him being the first to greet us when we were

01:02:41.980 married.

01:02:42.420 Um, so nice.

01:02:44.740 It's gotta be good luck.

01:02:46.120 I mean, there's something in there that's, I don't know, redemptive.

01:02:49.740 So now the big question is, are we having children?

01:02:53.940 Are children in the future?

01:02:55.060 Since this was one of your, this was one of your reasons to leave, right?

01:02:58.560 I mean, you've got to be hoping, no, John?

01:03:01.240 We are hoping.

01:03:02.220 And what I, one of the things I loved about Caitlin was that, so I'm 40, I'm 48 now.

01:03:08.440 Um, she's 36, um, and 37, sorry, Caitlin.

01:03:13.780 And, but I was so happy that she, she mentioned, she would think about, she would be a news

01:03:20.420 nun someday, like just basically be dedicated to the news.

01:03:23.300 She wasn't looking to have children. 0.97

01:03:25.320 And that was kind of a relief to me, even though I was certainly hoping to have children or being

01:03:30.480 open to that idea, but I, what, she wasn't getting married in order to have a kid. 1.00

01:03:34.880 Um, so that gave me great confidence.

01:03:36.540 Another thing that gave me great confidence was this whole terrible epidemic, uh, pandemic

01:03:42.000 that we're going through and that we were, you know, spending much more time together

01:03:47.560 than we would have otherwise.

01:03:49.460 And so our relationship really sped up, um, without getting into details, um, it really

01:03:56.920 sped up honestly, because we spent, you know, three, four months together all the time.

01:04:02.980 And so I was like, you know what?

01:04:05.720 I actually like being with her.

01:04:07.580 And I think hopefully she said the same thing about me.

01:04:09.860 So that was, that's kind of the silver lining in our own relationship.

01:04:12.660 But the answer to your question is, yes, we're very open to having children and we look,

01:04:17.580 you know, we're, we are, we've only been married two months.

01:04:20.400 So stop pressing the issue.

01:04:22.500 But Caitlin, Caitlin was, um, was adopted from Korea.

01:04:26.920 Um, and we went last December back to Korea back for the first time since she had been there

01:04:32.760 since she was three months old.

01:04:34.360 Um, and we went to the very adoption agency, um, where she had, um, been, you know, given by

01:04:42.040 her birth mother and where she spent the first days of her life in this little room where that 0.60

01:04:46.040 little room is still there.

01:04:47.380 And it's full of these little babies under three months old who have not even been placed in

01:04:54.120 foster care yet.

01:04:56.200 And Caitlin was able to hold a baby from her town, um, who was there waiting for adoption.

01:05:04.580 So that's also an option.

01:05:07.140 Oh, that would be, that would be so beautiful.

01:05:09.620 I feel like there was a reason this happened.

01:05:12.900 Maybe that's it.

01:05:13.740 Maybe it's somebody who's coming in the future.

01:05:16.800 Maybe it's just the love between the two of you, you know, which is such an uplifting

01:05:20.340 force.

01:05:21.000 I I've said before, when you marry the right person, it can be such a stabilizing sound

01:05:26.860 foundation for the rest of your life.

01:05:29.020 I just, I think a lot of people don't realize if you have a great relationship, what an injection

01:05:33.380 of joy it can be into your world, you know?

01:05:35.380 So, and, and the opposite is true too, but we'll stay on the positive for now.

01:05:39.200 You know, like if you've got it and you nurture it, it can stay nurtured.

01:05:42.860 I mean, Doug and I have been together now for, I don't know, we met in, in 06, right?

01:05:47.200 So we're going on 15 years and it's awesome.

01:05:50.120 And it doesn't even require that much work.

01:05:52.460 Just a little nurturing, just like generous lenses, little nurse nurturing and a few other

01:05:57.440 things we'll get into over the wine.

01:05:59.400 Oh, can you tell this story?

01:06:00.500 Sarah, you guys have to tell this story.

01:06:02.080 It was about, you went to church and I don't know, Jonathan, you were doing something at

01:06:08.580 the church and you were like taking too long.

01:06:10.940 Can you tell this story?

01:06:12.160 Oh, right.

01:06:12.880 It's the community.

01:06:13.900 It's Tommy's first communion, honey.

01:06:17.340 Okay.

01:06:17.740 I'll tell this story.

01:06:18.440 You can't say it with a certain, yeah.

01:06:21.200 No.

01:06:21.400 Yes, you have to.

01:06:22.340 You must.

01:06:23.080 Yes.

01:06:23.460 I insist.

01:06:24.080 We can't.

01:06:24.980 I don't think you can do that with the ratings.

01:06:27.240 No, no.

01:06:27.920 I have an explicit warning.

01:06:29.100 I have an explicit warning label on my show.

01:06:31.420 You can say whatever you want.

01:06:33.560 Caitlin, I have to ask your permission.

01:06:35.420 You okay?

01:06:36.760 Yes, I'm totally fine.

01:06:38.660 Okay.

01:06:39.360 Here we go.

01:06:40.640 Never said this publicly, but so yeah, we're at my nephew's first communion and it's one

01:06:48.020 of Caitlin's first time meeting my family.

01:06:49.900 You can imagine what they're thinking, you know, like, oh, you know, here he is after

01:06:55.460 all these years in the priesthood.

01:06:56.680 Who is she? 0.99

01:06:57.340 And so Caitlin grew up evangelical.

01:07:01.260 So in the Catholic church, if you're not Catholic, when you go up to communion, you

01:07:07.280 don't receive because the idea is if you don't believe the same thing the Catholic church believes

01:07:11.500 about communion, you shouldn't receive out of intellectual integrity, I guess.

01:07:16.540 And so, but what you can do is cross your arms over your chest and the priest will give a

01:07:24.080 blessing on your forehead.

01:07:25.640 So Caitlin was very eager to do that.

01:07:29.480 Okay.

01:07:29.800 And later I found out she was very, she knew that she knew how to do it because she had

01:07:34.500 watched it in Rome when she was there covering the conclave for Good Morning America, where

01:07:40.340 we met.

01:07:41.740 So she, Caitlin and I are sitting together.

01:07:44.280 She marches out into the aisle.

01:07:45.900 I let her go ahead of me and she heads towards, you know, through the communion line.

01:07:50.880 And as she's, she's now about four feet away from the priest who's giving out communion.

01:07:56.400 And instead of what a normal person would do, a normal person who knows like how to get

01:08:04.060 the blessing would do, who would go walk right up to the priest, cross the arms and wait for

01:08:09.460 him to get a blessing.

01:08:10.840 She like, this was like, this wasn't Taco Bell or like, this was like, it was a flyby.

01:08:15.920 She walked right across her arm, walked right past the priest. 0.95

01:08:20.920 And he's like looking for her with his arms stretched out, trying to catch her to get a

01:08:25.120 blessing.

01:08:25.460 She has no clue.

01:08:27.500 She comes right back in the aisle and I, I look, I get back into the pew.

01:08:33.680 My whole family probably saw her do this flyby. 1.00

01:08:36.540 And, and I said, what was that?

01:08:41.060 And she looked at me and she's in these beautiful high heels and this beautiful dress.

01:08:45.980 And she looks at me and she says, you didn't fucking tell me what I was supposed to do.

01:08:55.460 Or something like that.

01:09:00.580 That's awesome.

01:09:01.220 It was actually a little bit different, but I don't even feel comfortable saying it.

01:09:05.840 But you get the message.

01:09:07.300 She's like, you didn't effing tell me what I was supposed to do.

01:09:13.040 You effing, whatever.

01:09:15.980 I'm like, well, what were you marching up there for?

01:09:19.300 Like, you knew what you were doing.

01:09:21.020 But anyway.

01:09:21.420 Meanwhile, FFJ is like, by the way, the wafers taste delicious.

01:09:26.380 You have to rewind to get that part of the story.

01:09:33.860 Yeah.

01:09:34.160 You don't know.

01:09:34.700 You don't know how good they are, what you're missing.

01:09:36.860 So, oh, wait.

01:09:37.400 So by the way, so you, we, you established you, we are, you are not going to convert out

01:09:41.060 of Catholicism, but Caitlin, is there any chance you're going to jump in?

01:09:44.140 I don't know.

01:09:44.780 It's not, I wouldn't completely write it off.

01:09:47.000 I think about it.

01:09:47.920 I'll pray about it.

01:09:48.900 Um, when we go to church on Sundays, we go to this great church down here, um, near our

01:09:53.960 neighborhood that has very good music, um, and preaching good homily.

01:09:58.840 So, um, yeah, at one point, but John never made that, like when we were dating, it was

01:10:03.140 never like a condition of, of dating or anything that he needed to marry someone Catholic.

01:10:08.200 Um, and he likes to celebrate like my diverse backgrounds and where I come from.

01:10:13.500 And, um, so yeah, so we'll see.

01:10:16.500 Well, correct me if I'm wrong, John.

01:10:17.960 But I thought the rule was you can, you can marry a non-Catholic, but the kids need 1.00

01:10:22.540 to be Catholic.

01:10:23.520 Yeah.

01:10:23.800 And Caitlin signed off on that basically that.

01:10:26.560 I guess when you get married.

01:10:28.340 That the, the non-Catholic partners agrees, um, to, or like recognize the fact that the

01:10:36.400 Catholic partner has promised to raise the children Catholic, you know?

01:10:40.080 So this is like my in, no matter how many sins I commit on this earth, I feel like when

01:10:45.120 I get up there and St.

01:10:46.740 Peter's trying to give me a hard time, I'm going to be like, look, I made you three little

01:10:51.780 Catholics.

01:10:52.860 All that's all I want to hear is thank you and welcome.

01:10:58.540 And here's your mansion.

01:11:00.060 That's right.

01:11:01.060 So now wait, so what, so professionally, what's next for you, John?

01:11:04.960 You're still at ABC, Caitlin.

01:11:06.380 And so, but what are you, what are you doing now to pay the bills since now you do have

01:11:09.960 to, no more poverty.

01:11:11.940 Yeah.

01:11:12.420 Well, no, actually there really is poverty now.

01:11:15.300 Like if you don't work, it turns out you're poor in the Catholic church.

01:11:20.460 If you're a priest and you don't work, you just keep your job and you still get paid and

01:11:24.940 people suffer.

01:11:26.300 Um, but that's another issue.

01:11:28.340 Um, yeah.

01:11:29.320 So I looked at different things.

01:11:31.360 I looked at, you know, promoting hedge funds.

01:11:34.180 I looked at, you know, selling vacuum cleaners.

01:11:36.840 I looked at, um, teaching high school religion.

01:11:39.960 I looked at, um, a lot of different things and I really have fallen into something that

01:11:46.100 I absolutely love.

01:11:47.600 And that is, um, in the industry, we call it executive coaching or leadership development,

01:11:53.540 but it's working with people across industries and even people who are not, um, specifically

01:11:59.640 in business to help them basically make good decisions, um, in the workplace primarily.

01:12:06.180 So it's not life coaching.

01:12:07.700 Life coaching would be more like a kind of a low level counselor or something.

01:12:12.000 Um, I, what I do is I get involved with people who are entrepreneurs.

01:12:17.580 Um, and I, I say, um, I'm going to work with you for a year.

01:12:21.480 Um, and that's kind of the minimal thing that we do with a one year, um, a retainer, and I

01:12:27.160 am with you as a partner.

01:12:29.020 And the first step is help to get you to get to know yourself better.

01:12:32.720 And we use, um, very specific, um, personality assessment tools, um, in order to do that.

01:12:40.400 Um, so the first part is self knowledge, self assessment.

01:12:44.020 And then second part is self management and then apply leadership skills.

01:12:47.200 But basically it's people.

01:12:49.800 And I've seen this over the last few months.

01:12:51.840 Um, but people have told me this, the most expensive decisions we make are the decisions

01:12:56.660 that we make when we're afraid, when we're anxious, when we're jealous, when we're insecure,

01:13:02.060 et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

01:13:03.580 Right.

01:13:03.960 Or when we're greedy.

01:13:05.440 Um, and the best and sometimes most profitable decisions that we make are the ones that we

01:13:09.980 make when we're coming from a secure position personally.

01:13:13.220 When we're making a decision where we need, we've gotten some advice from somebody that

01:13:17.940 we trust.

01:13:18.520 And so I'm working with executives and their immediate leadership teams to make good decisions

01:13:23.620 and to give them courage, um, to go ahead and to execute on those decisions.

01:13:28.260 And I just loved it.

01:13:29.800 So the, the firm is Morris and Larson.

01:13:32.820 Um, so it's morrisonlarson.com is where you can find us.

01:13:36.360 And it's just been a blessing.

01:13:37.780 I'm doing it little by little.

01:13:38.740 I'm also still working with Fox news, um, as an analyst, as a, as a contributor, but, um,

01:13:44.880 I'm just loving this working with people who have high impact and say, I'm going to invest

01:13:50.280 in having somebody who I can confide in, who I can trust.

01:13:55.040 Um, and together we will make good decisions.

01:13:57.440 And I think it always pays off.

01:13:59.320 Well, it sounds perfect for you.

01:14:02.180 I know in your letter announcing that you were leaving the priesthood, you said, I hope 1.00

01:14:07.480 you are able to hear the newfound joy I have in my heart, despite my fear of stepping into

01:14:13.600 the unknown.

01:14:14.580 You recognize some will not understand.

01:14:17.140 I'm okay with that too.

01:14:19.420 Please pray for me.

01:14:21.140 I did millions of others did so far.

01:14:24.880 So good.

01:14:25.940 Listen, Merry Christmas to the two of you on the first Christmas you will have together

01:14:30.820 as husband and wife, and just so many blessings to you both.

01:14:35.320 Thank you for being with me.

01:14:36.440 Megan, thank you, Megan.

01:14:39.680 Today's episode was brought to you in part by Bloomzy Box, farm fresh flowers delivered

01:14:44.380 right to your door.

01:14:45.660 Go to Bloomzy Box, B-L-O-O-M-S-Y box.com and enter code MK to get 15% off and free shipping.

01:14:54.040 Okay.

01:14:54.380 On our next show, which is going to be Monday, a brand new program and you're going to love

01:14:59.280 it.

01:15:00.340 Everyone's abandoning you during the holiday season.

01:15:02.660 Not us.

01:15:03.300 We've got new program coming every show.

01:15:05.540 No repeats, all new interviews.

01:15:07.900 We are going to talk to Jerry Springer.

01:15:11.280 This is an amazing exchange.

01:15:13.460 He's got the most diverse and interesting history.

01:15:17.440 Not only, of course, has he had this talk show, right?

01:15:19.860 For all these years, almost 30 years.

01:15:21.700 But do you know he was the youngest mayor in America at the time?

01:15:24.400 Um, he's got a long political history and somehow that parlayed into him doing shows that are

01:15:29.840 entitled I Married a Horse.

01:15:31.200 He's very open about that transition, how it happened, what it was like, whether he thinks his show was a force for good.

01:15:39.260 Um, his arrest 30 years ago for solicitation of prostitution.

01:15:44.460 And best of all, he will recount for you that time he was five years old and stood on the deck of the Queen Mary coming to America from England, looking at the Statue of Liberty and asking his mother, what does she mean?

01:16:01.580 What does that mean?

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01:16:07.020 See you then.

01:16:08.020 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

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The Megyn Kelly Show - December 25, 2020

(Former Father) Jonathan Morris and his wife Kaitlyn, on Faith, Marriage, and Glorifying God ｜ Ep. 42

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