The Megyn Kelly Show - Fox Goes to War with Tucker Carlson, and Fauci Pressed on His Lies, with Michael Brendan Dougherty and Noah Rothman ｜ Ep. 537

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00:01:01.320 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:03.300 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:01:12.400 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:01:14.160 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Wednesday.

00:01:16.800 First, we're going to get to the latest on Tucker Carlson's

00:01:19.660 departure from Fox and the ongoing fallout.

00:01:22.420 Joining me today on this, our National Review Day,

00:01:26.540 is Michael Brendan Doherty, MBD, as Rich Lowry calls him.

00:01:30.760 And now, Noah Rothman, because Noah jumped ship from commentary

00:01:34.660 to National Review, which I've been totally enjoying.

00:01:37.900 And he is now a member of the Editor's Podcast, which is a fave.

00:01:41.600 Both are senior writers, and you can find their work, of course,

00:01:43.740 on National Review or through an NR Plus membership, which I recommend.

00:01:47.340 You get to skip virtually all of the ads, and you get a bunch of fun extras.

00:01:51.640 MBD and Noah, great to see you.

00:01:53.020 Thanks for joining us today.

00:01:54.440 Thank you so much for having me.

00:01:56.060 Noah, you're going to be so much better on this podcast than you were on commentary,

00:02:00.080 where the very loquacious John Podorets never let you talk.

00:02:03.060 Oh, that's not true.

00:02:05.780 I bullied my way in so many times.

00:02:07.460 I felt terrible about it most of the time.

00:02:09.760 But yeah, I had to use some sharp elbows.

00:02:11.740 I'll reserve them here.

00:02:13.440 Yeah, that's right.

00:02:14.220 No, you can.

00:02:14.840 That's MBD can take it.

00:02:17.040 All right.

00:02:17.620 I want to start with you guys are both old media experts.

00:02:21.940 And I am so disturbed at how the Tucker thing is playing out.

00:02:25.740 And I know, Noah, you're not against the termination and think that Tucker brought this on himself.

00:02:31.560 However, this is something different.

00:02:35.200 They're trying to destroy him.

00:02:37.680 And it's very obvious.

00:02:40.040 And this is, I've been through this myself.

00:02:42.120 It's not enough that you part ways with the company.

00:02:45.180 They want to destroy you.

00:02:47.180 They want to ruin your career and your employability.

00:02:51.620 It's absolutely disgusting.

00:02:53.620 Not every industry does this, you guys.

00:02:55.600 Just ours.

00:02:57.160 Just like media.

00:02:58.800 And in particular, cable news and broadcast news.

00:03:03.440 Trust me on that.

00:03:04.960 Today, there's a new piece.

00:03:07.740 There's one in the Wall Street Journal.

00:03:08.860 Of course, that's owned by the same parent company as Fox News.

00:03:13.220 Tucker Carlson's vulgar offensive messages about colleagues helped seal his fate at Fox News.

00:03:18.700 Several weeks ago, as Fox News lawyers prepared for a courtroom showdown with Dominion Voting Systems,

00:03:22.640 they presented Tucker Carlson with what they thought was good news.

00:03:26.460 They had persuaded the court to redact from a legal filing the time he called a senior Fox executive the C-word, according to people familiar with the matter.

00:03:34.580 Mr. Carlson, Fox News' most watched primetime host, was not impressed.

00:03:38.320 He told his colleagues he wanted the world to know what he had said about the executive in a private message, said these people.

00:03:44.280 Mr. Carlson said comments he made about former President Donald Trump, quote, I hate him passionately, that were in the court documents, were said during a momentary spasm of anger, while his dislike of this executive was deep and enduring.

00:03:57.280 The private messages in which Mr. Carlson showed disregard for management and colleagues were a major factor in the decision to let him go, according to people familiar with the matter.

00:04:06.720 Here's the next paragraph.

00:04:08.140 In recent years, here's the tell about who they're talking about.

00:04:11.960 Battles between Mr. Carlson and Fox management got so bad that former Trump aide Raj Shah was appointed to be his internal advocate and an intermediary between Mr. Carlson and Fox's communications department, according to people familiar with the arrangement and filings in the Dominion case.

00:04:34.000 Mr. Carlson was livid that Fox News did not do more to protect him from the negative press coverage around the Dominion case that he was expected to testify in, given that.

00:04:41.960 The primary actors responsible for the false election fraud claims at the heart of the suit were other Fox hosts and commentators and so on.

00:04:50.100 This is my guess.

00:04:51.820 I don't have inside knowledge of this, but they're talking about Irina Briganti.

00:04:56.480 Yeah, Abby's shaking her head.

00:04:57.680 Yes.

00:04:57.860 She runs the Fox News media relations department, and she is as vicious as they come. 1.00

00:05:05.640 And to some extent, it's not her fault because she does the bidding of her bosses.

00:05:10.540 Irina is not running around rogue trying to take people down.

00:05:13.400 She has the blessing of her higher ups.

00:05:16.100 That's just the way corporations work. 0.52

00:05:18.060 But this woman has terrorized enough people for long enough that there should be accountability. 1.00

00:05:24.020 I went on the air at NBC at NBC in my new job and called her out by name because let me tell you, it is a pattern that when you leave an organization like this, it's not enough to try to say goodbye, to say, OK, we hope she fails or he fails.

00:05:39.920 They try to ruin you in the dirtiest and most disgusting ways possible.

00:05:45.820 And that's what I believe they're doing to Tucker right now.

00:05:48.660 And I'll just give you one other thing before I bring you guys in for comment.

00:05:51.780 Rolling Stone with the following headline.

00:05:54.440 Fox has a secret oppo file to keep Tucker Carlson in check.

00:05:59.600 Sources say Fox News executives have in their possession a dossier of alleged dirt on Tucker.

00:06:05.100 Should he attack the network in the wake of his departure?

00:06:07.780 A file includes internal complaints regarding workplace conduct, disparaging comments about management and colleagues and allegations that the now former primetime host created a toxic work environment.

00:06:18.400 This is what they do.

00:06:19.480 So what they're going to release his personnel file, any complaint, any minion at Fox News ever went in there to lodge against Tucker, whether it was substantiated or not, whether it was a money grab as a part of a departure or not.

00:06:31.920 We won't be given the context.

00:06:33.500 They'll just try to ruin him.

00:06:34.580 That's it.

00:06:35.300 Why?

00:06:35.960 Because they fired him.

00:06:36.760 Wait, what?

00:06:37.780 They fired him, but he must be ruined.

00:06:40.660 I'm sorry, but it's disgusting, MBD.

00:06:44.920 I know I'm supposed to shake my head and shrug my shoulders and say, oh, yeah, this is the business we're in.

00:06:51.480 You know, this is the business we've chosen.

00:06:54.000 I think we deserve better.

00:06:55.600 Yeah, and I mean, Tucker is going to be bleeding out of the ears and legal fees fighting for the rest of his contract to be paid out for the terms on which that will be paid out, whether there's these phony nondisclosure agreements that get poured into a severance agreement.

00:07:17.080 Whether there's an agreement, whether there's an agreement about how long there's a non-compete clause, you know, where he can't start up his own enterprise or join a competing network.

00:07:29.140 You know, all that thing is that's going to be a major fight.

00:07:32.600 And that's why they're they're already pre fighting it in the court of public opinion.

00:07:37.520 Right. Like there are stories now Vanity Fair had a story basically alleging that, you know, Rupert Murdoch was freaked out by Tucker praying or encouraging people to pray.

00:07:50.960 You know, so the black eyes are being traded back and forth and it's it is a shame.

00:07:58.080 You know, I mean, I think the simplest theory of the case is that after the Dominion lawsuit was settled in which Tucker wasn't playing a leading role, but in which, you know, if he had been outside the company before the settlement, he could have been a pretty devastating witness against figures like Suzanne Scott or or even other hosts in the company about what they said about Dominion on air or off air.

00:08:28.080 So the Dominion lawsuit was settled and Rupert Murdoch, I think, has laid down the law and News Corp that they are not going to support Trump going forward.

00:08:39.080 And Tucker Carlson being the totally incorrigible person I know that he is will not make promises about his political assessments or aspirations or his opinions in the future going forward or how he's going to express them.

00:08:56.560 And so I think this is just cleaning up.

00:08:59.960 I think that he was fired because they don't want the primetime spot on Fox to be unreliable going into the next election cycle.

00:09:10.720 And so now that now the fight is on and it's it's going to be war.

00:09:15.760 It's going to be full on warfare.

00:09:17.140 I mean, Tucker's hiring some very serious law people.

00:09:20.440 I think I think he even hired your lawyer.

00:09:22.620 Yeah, he did.

00:09:23.560 Brian Friedman, who is the best in the business.

00:09:25.700 And he's a pit bull.

00:09:27.120 By the way, if you try to sue me, Brian Friedman will come for you and it will hurt.

00:09:30.740 Um, but he was smart and so did Don Lemon hire him.

00:09:34.900 So did Chris Harrison when they booted him off The Bachelor.

00:09:37.860 Chris Cuomo hired Brian all after I hired Brian.

00:09:41.280 Gabrielle Union, she had a dispute with NBC all after I hired Brian because Brian knows how to fight dirty.

00:09:45.680 And these are disgusting companies that outwardly outwardly want you to think that they're the highbrow ones.

00:09:52.800 They they will be above board.

00:09:54.400 But behind the scenes, they're as disgusting and vicious as they come.

00:09:58.640 So you need a pit bull like Brian.

00:10:00.940 He's, you know, he's a Harvard educated man.

00:10:02.460 He's brilliant, but he's not afraid to sling with the best of them.

00:10:06.880 Well, and you kind of know the story, you know, that they're not they're not dealing with you straight about this story.

00:10:12.960 If Tucker used the C word on an executive and the story is about whether it came out in Discovery and whether it was redacted,

00:10:22.200 it means they were fine with him using the C word.

00:10:25.000 They weren't they didn't fire him on the spot months ago when he used it or years ago when he used it.

00:10:30.760 Only they're only letting this out now that the public relations warfare is is in full.

00:10:37.840 Exactly right.

00:10:38.700 And what and who is the Wall Street Journal report all about?

00:10:41.780 It is about some communications department worker that Tucker didn't like that.

00:10:49.100 He, I believe, is the references to her may have used the C word about.

00:10:53.260 And we know from the Dominion deposition that he did use the C word about Sidney Powell.

00:10:57.460 I am not defending use of the C word, but these are private conversations that Tucker had about these people that were never meant to see the light of day.

00:11:05.200 They only got had to be produced because the lawsuit and he complied with his discovery obligations and turn them over.

00:11:10.420 But that's so what he was fired because of a private thought he had about this woman who is so bad.

00:11:17.800 I, too, at Fox News had to hire my own outside communications department because I couldn't work with this person anymore.

00:11:25.900 And guess what? Fox paid for her.

00:11:28.720 Fox paid for me to hire one of the top PR agents in Hollywood because I had to go outside of our industry because I couldn't deal with this jackal for one more day. 0.99

00:11:38.960 Because her job is to undermine the people at Fox News. 1.00

00:11:42.960 So this is the same person who he may or may not have said a nasty word about.

00:11:46.880 And if he can't stand her, he's not alone.

00:11:49.680 Find me a person in the industry who has nice things to say about this person.

00:11:53.220 And I'll find you a journalist who's desperate for her info, who needs to write copy based on what she says.

00:12:00.400 So this is but you can see what they're doing.

00:12:03.620 It's the absolute politics of destruction.

00:12:05.400 And Noah, the Rolling Stone piece, we've got an oppo file on you again comes.

00:12:10.540 Why? Because he got fired.

00:12:12.340 He hasn't said anything.

00:12:14.480 Tucker hasn't said anything publicly.

00:12:17.440 He could have been out there.

00:12:18.480 He could have pulled a Don Lemon and gone on with a tweet.

00:12:21.200 You know, after 17 years, look what they did to me.

00:12:23.820 Nothing.

00:12:24.060 So this is all a threat will will hurt you and it'll it'll be bad.

00:12:29.300 We own the journal.

00:12:29.940 We own the Post.

00:12:30.580 We own Fox News.

00:12:31.480 And we have tons of media sources who are dependent on us, Fox News, for copy.

00:12:35.960 Well, he can't really say anything if he anticipates litigation, which is perhaps what he's anticipating.

00:12:41.760 And he probably should.

00:12:42.940 I certainly can't speak to your experience behind the scenes at Fox with the backbiting that you experienced.

00:12:47.980 I can perhaps to some degree at NBC, which I was privy to to a certain extent.

00:12:52.620 But as you said, this is the business we've chosen.

00:12:54.580 I can't imagine what it's like, however, to work at an institution that maintains oppo files on you or where you have to consider that your telephonic communications may be read aloud to you in a deposition at any given moment.

00:13:05.240 That seems like a harrowing experience.

00:13:07.320 But I also don't need to limit my I also don't need to delve into behind the scenes accounts to show and to say that Tucker Carlson, while being an extremely talented broadcaster, had become an extremely irresponsible broadcaster.

00:13:20.680 He had put his company in positions that were unenviable, not just in the step in this case against Dominion.

00:13:26.900 He was in court and Fox was in court defending him as being an unreliable narrator.

00:13:31.000 That was their defense of him even before the 2020 election.

00:13:34.100 Well, that's legal that you as you well know, that's a legal defense where you try to say this is just an opinion guy spewing opinions.

00:13:40.020 No one would take it as fact, which gets you out of the defamation realm.

00:13:44.400 Yeah. And one of the reasons why he does that is because he is married to a narrative which he advances on a regular basis that the institutions and the powers that be are dedicated to manipulating you, to lying to you, to putting you in a position that advances their interests at the expense of your own.

00:13:58.920 That is itself a manipulative enterprise.

00:14:01.920 It is a paranoid enterprise.

00:14:03.580 It is one of the reasons why I think the notion here that Tucker Carlson was fired on a whim because of his Christianity has somehow generated purchase among people who are suspending all disbelief.

00:14:13.920 The notion that Fox is hostile to Christianity when it has hosts like Ainsley Earhart and Pete Hegseth leading prayer on air, it justifies belief. 1.00

00:14:22.400 And it pings the pleasure centers and people who are predisposed to a kind of paranoia that I think is supremely detrimental to the conservative movement.

00:14:29.380 Let me tell you this. I guarantee you Rupert Murdoch doesn't sit there watching Fox and Friends every morning.

00:14:34.300 He probably loosely knows who Pete Hegseth is.

00:14:37.020 Like, to suggest he's watching that and seeing it and reacting to it is to misunderstand how Rupert lives his life.

00:14:43.760 Tucker's a different story. Primetime is a different story. It's the most visible in your face. That's the face of the brand.

00:14:49.420 And he would see that. So I don't know what happened on the religion front, whether it mattered or it didn't.

00:14:53.240 I don't know either, but I can say that my own personal experience, I was on the air with him, confronting him with the facts against which he was predisposed to ignore in order to advance the idea that the Trump administration was manipulating the public to go to war.

00:15:06.700 And he didn't like that. So he engaged in ad hominem. So he engaged in the dismissal and distortion of facts that are on record.

00:15:15.260 And while I can't speak to anybody else's personal experience behind the scenes, you can verify my experience for yourself. It's on YouTube.

00:15:20.800 So, you know, OK, so you're more in the neocon field and, you know, you guys own that uncommentary and Tucker's exactly the opposite of that.

00:15:28.520 So there's an ideological disagreement between you. I get that. That's not why he was fired.

00:15:32.820 Literally nobody cared about that kind of a disagreement by Tucker.

00:15:36.160 And the things that you're talking about, like, let's say the January 6th thing was suggesting that it was a false flag operation that happened two years ago, a year.

00:15:44.540 I think it was two years ago. I think it's 2020.

00:15:46.040 No, March. March. The segment that the segment where he alleged implicitly that an individual was an FBI plant absent any evidence occurred in March.

00:15:53.140 That's Ray Epps. And that's happened well before this past March, Noah. Well before this past March.

00:15:57.660 The January 6th false flag long term, a long form documentary or whatever they were calling it happened two years ago.

00:16:04.400 It was one of the reasons why Shepard Smith threw a fit and why Chris Wallace left.

00:16:09.200 If memories are certainly on the Chris Wallace thing. Trust me, that happened a long time ago.

00:16:13.080 I understand the footage that he received.

00:16:15.060 You're suggesting that's why he was let go. And that's bullshit.

00:16:17.540 The timing doesn't make sense.

00:16:20.420 No, I don't. I reject that. It doesn't make sense.

00:16:21.980 The footage that he received from Kevin McCarthy was broadcast in March.

00:16:24.580 Correct. That's different. That the documentary that people quit over was two years ago.

00:16:31.140 If you think that's why they fired him, why did they let him?

00:16:33.600 Why did they renew his deal after two years?

00:16:36.060 I mean, MBD, it had to be something else.

00:16:38.400 And I think it very much could have been he got too big and too big for his britches, too big for Rupert's pleasure.

00:16:46.120 You know, nobody can get bigger than Fox News.

00:16:48.160 That's Rupert's operation.

00:16:49.360 And if you think you're bigger, he'll teach you a lesson the opposite way.

00:16:53.500 Yeah, I think that's part of it.

00:16:54.920 I mean, listen, it's known in the media that Tucker moved, you know, broadcasts from his home studios in Maine or in Florida.

00:17:04.580 He's not like in the building.

00:17:06.560 He's not kind of in reach or under the thumb.

00:17:09.660 He's kind of tried to establish, as you said, with his own liaison to Fox, Fox's press department,

00:17:15.960 a kind of fiefdom where he gets bothered as little as possible by the top brass in News Corp and Fox News.

00:17:25.220 And, you know, and he drives conversation apart from the editorial line set at the morning meetings in Fox News.

00:17:34.700 Right.

00:17:34.840 Like it used to be that Fox News kind of set the agenda for the day on the right, at least, and maybe even for the country in its morning meetings,

00:17:43.600 you know, where it kind of covers these are the stories for the day that are going to be covered on the network.

00:17:48.440 And then the primetime hosts are going to have them on their own.

00:17:51.640 Well, Tucker doesn't do that.

00:17:53.240 I mean, as far as I can tell, Tucker spends the morning fly fishing and then sits down after texting with friends and reading the news

00:18:02.100 and writes a monologue without consulting anyone.

00:18:05.020 And that monologue will drive the conversation for the next 24 hours sometimes.

00:18:10.220 So, yeah, I mean, he was kind of beyond or beyond the reach of the institution itself.

00:18:17.680 And and like I said, I think I mean, we saw the way I think the last time I was on on your show, Megan,

00:18:23.180 we saw how the New York Post treated Donald Trump's announcement for president, which was like Florida man reapplies for job or whatever.

00:18:32.540 It's like, you know, the line has gone out at News Corp.

00:18:37.100 This is no longer going to be Trump country.

00:18:40.040 And I think that's something that Tucker Carlson won't agree to.

00:18:44.880 You know, like he's so he just will not be reliable to to do to say something if he doesn't want to say it.

00:18:55.240 The the other narrative emerging now is one I find equally unpersuasive, and that is that this woman who filed a lawsuit against Fox, Abby Grossberg, was instrumental to his termination.

00:19:07.020 Now, this person worked for Tucker for about two minutes.

00:19:09.760 Tucker was never in the building. And as far as I can tell, because she did an in-depth interview with Nicole Wallace on MSNBC yesterday,

00:19:16.440 she doesn't even have any specific allegations about Tucker.

00:19:19.280 Her allegations are at best about the people in his pod, in his news pod at the channel.

00:19:25.560 Tucker didn't work in the Fox News building.

00:19:28.680 Neither does Hannity, by the way. And in part, I'm sure it's for reasons like this.

00:19:32.680 When you're that big a star, you're that big a target and people like to throw things at you that are not true as a money grab.

00:19:42.680 They just do. That's not to say every allegation against anybody who's a star is bullshit, but there's a pattern of this kind of thing happening.

00:19:49.740 And I'm sure they just enjoyed being home with their families and not dealing in the middle of this toxic work environment.

00:19:56.040 Trust me, it's delightful to not have to do that.

00:19:58.940 Trust. And my friends inside the building still say the same thing.

00:20:02.900 They feel the same as I do there. They would love to not have to show up at 12, 11 every day.

00:20:08.240 So she now is out there talking about how, you know, it was it was this word, this environment in which she heard the C word regularly,

00:20:17.360 that she was shocked, shocked to show up and see that picture of Nancy Pelosi in the bathing suit with the breasts kind of hanging out,

00:20:24.940 blown up in poster size and the newsroom pod.

00:20:28.900 I mean, who are we kidding? Like, seriously, MBD, you're laughing.

00:20:32.620 Who are we kidding? Like that Fox News is going to fire Tucker and his EP because they're offended.

00:20:39.700 They had that. This is a joke.

00:20:41.380 Yeah, I mean, that is you could say that that's that's a little juvenile or a little bit in bad taste.

00:20:51.180 But I mean, that's literally all it is, is it's juvenile and in bad taste.

00:20:54.980 It's not necessarily the sign of of a an environment that is dangerous or hostile.

00:21:02.340 I don't think you could ever get that across the line to a jury if you if you literally like blew up the photo and showed the evidence that a bunch of guys at a conservative network were kind of laughing at the appearance of Nancy Pelosi.

00:21:20.600 You know, people laughed at the appearance of Bill Clinton in his gym short in his running shorts.

00:21:26.400 I mean, it's just the nature of politics to kind of laugh at your enemies when they look like they've embarrassed themselves somehow.

00:21:35.000 Yeah, I mean, the it is interesting to me that the Grossberg interview landed when it landed when it did.

00:21:46.880 Right. I mean, it's sort of like this lawsuit has been brewing for a little while now, but now it's becoming, you know, a public news story with video footage and interviews precisely at a time when Tucker can't defend himself in public.

00:22:03.400 Yeah, that's right.

00:22:04.720 So so it does feel, you know, obviously, I'm not I don't want to prejudice anything before before it comes out.

00:22:12.000 Like, you know, and I can fully believe that someone on Tucker's staff, you know, crossed a line.

00:22:17.320 That's totally possible.

00:22:19.060 Yeah.

00:22:19.620 So so I don't want to prejudge it, but it does feel like like I said, like an ongoing PR war that that that Fox knows is absolutely massive.

00:22:31.380 And important for them, too, is is going to be keeping him off the air and keeping him from attacking them from a large platform.

00:22:44.200 Right. So the more that they can have basically the airwaves to themselves to trash him, the better for Fox News.

00:22:52.300 Just to add the Daily Mail's reporting that they talked to Tucker, it sounds like they just found him on his golf cart down in Florida.

00:23:02.620 He said retirement's going great so far.

00:23:06.300 I haven't eaten dinner with my wife on a weeknight in seven years.

00:23:10.140 Pressed on his future, the flamethrowing former hosts of Tucker Carlson Tonight flashed a broad smile and joked appetizers plus entree.

00:23:17.760 Smart move, as you point out. No, I there's he's limited in what he can say, as as I pointed out yesterday on the show, he's not yet actually been fired.

00:23:26.960 He's his show's been pulled. His access to company emails been pulled, but he is not actually fired.

00:23:33.360 So they have to negotiate this. And that's why Brian Friedman is representing him.

00:23:36.360 Let's just not move on from the Abby Grossberg thing.

00:23:39.460 So here's this woman. And because, yes, MSNBC gives her an interview, a long interview, and she says she's got tapes, some 90 tapes.

00:23:46.800 That she, Abby, has not yet been through. But she admits she doesn't think there's anything on there that led to Tucker's termination.

00:23:54.580 That's what she told Nicole Wallace, though. She she surmises maybe her lawsuit had something to do with it.

00:24:01.080 She's talking about what it was like to be there. And I have a lot of thoughts on this young woman.

00:24:04.660 But what I was going to say is not only did she get on MSNBC, but she keeps getting referenced in all these newspaper articles about Tucker's fires firing.

00:24:11.120 You know, he called Sidney Powell the C word. He may have called this Fox executive unnamed the C word.

00:24:17.740 And now this girl comes forward to say hostile and wire environment in his work place pod. 1.00

00:24:22.820 Here's a little bit of this Abby Grossberg on with Nicole Wallace.

00:24:27.500 I was hoping that it would be more professional and what he was portraying on air was just a show.

00:24:33.640 And unfortunately, that wasn't the case.

00:24:35.420 So when do you realize that immediately?

00:24:40.360 I show up first day of work and I know that this is a popular one.

00:24:44.720 It's been widely publicized. There are literally pictures like this big of Nancy Pelosi in a bathing suit in Europe, plastered all over.

00:24:54.560 There was even one on my computer screen for the temporary computer I had to use and I had to take it down just to work.

00:25:00.880 Within a few days there, I was called into Justin Wells' office with Alex McCaskill, who was a senior producer as well, and asked if Maria was having an affair with Kevin McCarthy.

00:25:13.140 It was just I was shocked.

00:25:16.320 I couldn't even believe it. I was floored.

00:25:18.060 Well, that might be relevant information for a company to know whether one of its main stars is actually having an affair with the possible next speaker of the House.

00:25:27.640 So I'm not sure in what context that came up.

00:25:30.680 But here's the here's one of the things I wanted to ask you about, Noah.

00:25:33.580 So I don't I have a lot of mixed feelings about Abby Grossberg.

00:25:38.440 I think she's too thin skinned to work in news. 1.00

00:25:40.780 It's it's a rough and tumble business there.

00:25:43.920 We don't speak the Queen's English. And if you can't take some inappropriate barbs here and there, you're not going to last very long in it.

00:25:51.140 However, I'm not going to lie.

00:25:53.260 I was moved by her talking about how she was ruined by her experience in news and at Fox and how it made her wind up hating news.

00:26:03.760 She said she eventually had moral growth and stopped watching news because she became so depressed and disillusioned with it.

00:26:12.760 Then there was a stomach turning ending where Nicole Wallace asked, do you watch us now?

00:26:17.500 And Abby responded, I do.

00:26:20.500 OK, that's not the solution to your problems.

00:26:22.540 But it did. It does speak to what I'm trying to get to in this segment, which is news is uniquely disgusting.

00:26:30.220 Thick skin or not, it has this dark, toxic effect on most of us who are in it. 1.00

00:26:39.760 And it takes a daily effort to not become dark and toxic yourself.

00:26:44.460 I mean, yeah, I would imagine that Abby's experience is not all that uncommon, wasn't necessarily my experience, but I did have, you know, some some encounters with that sort of those incentives.

00:26:57.700 However, because I believe her experience is probably rather common, I kind of doubt that she her whatever the facts that she can marshal so far, what we have in evidence before us suggests a rather sophomoric culture, which is hardly enough to justify anything more than a nuisance settlement, is evidence that this was a contributing factor to Tucker Carlson's dismissal.

00:27:22.500 So, but it may have been a I'm going to let you I'm going to let you finish your point.

00:27:26.500 But just to fill in, I found this soundbite that Wallace asked her, are you aware of anything that came up in the discovery process as it pertains to Tucker, meaning in the Dominion case that could have led to his firing answer?

00:27:37.260 No, not that I'm aware of. Keep going.

00:27:40.000 Yeah, well, I'm I'm not entirely sure that it's something that's easily dismissed just because the if the alternative is not fiduciary, but editorial, then the evidentiary burden on us to prove

00:27:52.320 that is far higher. We have plenty of evidence to suggest that fiduciary obligations or costly settlements will cost you the 8 p.m.

00:27:59.400 slot. It happened to the last guy. I mean, that is a razor.

00:28:03.840 If this was about the Dominion settlement, why isn't Maria Bartiromo fired? Why isn't Janine Pirro fired? 1.00

00:28:09.240 That's a good question. But Lou Dobbs ain't there anymore.

00:28:11.880 And Lou Dobbs isn't there anymore because of a costly settlement.

00:28:15.500 Oh, my God, that's not true. That's not true.

00:28:17.920 O'Reilly paid sixty nine million dollars in sexual harassment settlements and they continued employing him and gave him twenty five million dollars a year.

00:28:27.420 Noah O'Reilly was let go because the press got a hold of the story.

00:28:33.060 That's why they had no choice but to cut ties.

00:28:36.440 But that's a fiduciary obligation to shareholders right there.

00:28:38.420 But they employed. No, no, they could.

00:28:40.700 They were fine to employ him knowing he'd paid out 70 million bucks to these to these women who had accused him.

00:28:48.520 Right. And until it became public knowledge, his conduct, which became an unsustainable situation.

00:28:54.100 He was gone because of the bad PR.

00:28:56.020 He wasn't gone because he he got them caught up financially.

00:28:59.700 Even the Andrea Macris thing, who was the first member, we were all super young at Fox.

00:29:04.260 I was brand new there.

00:29:05.940 Two thousand four.

00:29:07.080 And we were reading the allegations on our computer.

00:29:09.480 It was like, oh, my God, he had this affair with a producer.

00:29:11.360 And what did he do to her?

00:29:12.380 And the reports were he had paid some 10 million bucks out of his personal pocket.

00:29:16.340 Roger knew all about it.

00:29:17.820 Fine. They moved on.

00:29:18.940 That's how it generally was in the news business until the Me Too era.

00:29:23.480 And then we found out post Me Too, O'Reilly had to pay out all these.

00:29:27.380 I'm just saying to just to pin it on, like, you know, Fox had a problem with all these.

00:29:31.720 They did not have a problem with the payouts or with the fact that they somebody kept getting them sued.

00:29:36.300 They had a problem with the with the public knowing about it being public.

00:29:39.060 Right. As you say, becoming public, which is Occup's razor.

00:29:43.100 I mean, in order to argue that something behind the scenes happened, you have to have the behind the scenes knowledge.

00:29:47.320 You do. I don't.

00:29:48.720 And what I'm looking at in public and what's submitted in public constitutes a cumulative burden about on this program that at least justifies skepticism about the value of its longevity.

00:30:03.400 Hmm. Well, there's that.

00:30:05.960 I mean, that's the real question is, you know, what's what's the future of cable news in the wake of not just Tucker's departure, but just the explosion of digital media.

00:30:15.320 I actually look this up to try to get. Hold on a second. I'll find it to see in the case of Tucker.

00:30:21.380 What were what were the ratings? What's the ratings hit look like?

00:30:25.900 And hold on, Debbie, was that in our update today or was that yesterday's packet?

00:30:29.840 All right. I'll try to find the page. Hold on. I'm sure it's brutal.

00:30:33.740 So they lost six hundred thousand. I compared last Monday when Tucker was on because you don't want to use a Friday to a Monday because Fridays are always low in prime time.

00:30:42.020 So last Monday when Tucker was on, he got three point two million this Monday, the first that he was not on, they had two point six million.

00:30:50.380 So they lost six hundred thousand six hundred thousand viewers, which is about a 20 percent drop.

00:30:56.840 Last Monday when Tucker was on, he pulled four hundred forty five thousand in the key demo, 25 to 54 year olds.

00:31:02.260 This Monday without him, they pulled a two ninety four, which is about a thirty four percent drop.

00:31:08.600 So twenty percent in the overall, thirty four percent in the key demo, which is one third.

00:31:12.800 That's what they actually care about. I don't know whether it will continue or whether it was momentary.

00:31:17.900 You know, they had to know that was coming. They had to know they were going to take that sort of a hit and prepared for it, understood that that's what they were inviting.

00:31:24.100 So you have to assume if they were going to take that kind of a hit, that the costs that they would incur and the benefits that they were anticipating were profoundly mismatched and the benefits don't make sense if it's purely editorial.

00:31:39.540 Well, and that's the thing is like MBD, we're sitting here speculating about the Wall Street Journal report, the Rolling Stone threat, the Gabe Sherman reporting on the religion, all of this because Fox didn't give him a reason when they said it's done.

00:31:54.100 And they didn't give their audience a reason. And what they do instead is they try to leak terrible things about the person in the media.

00:32:01.360 So, oh, we were justified because he's a shitbag. Right. It's really what's happening here.

00:32:05.840 And to me, if I were a Fox audience member and I don't really watch any cable news anymore or television news, I'd be pissed.

00:32:14.740 I'd say you you make me fall in love with this guy. Then you pull him. You don't tell him or me why.

00:32:21.140 I have no idea why. I'm just kind of pissed off that my favorite host is gone.

00:32:25.060 And then I see you trying to ruin him in the press without putting your fingerprints on it.

00:32:28.400 But it's clear that it's you. So I don't think that's going to help Fox News restore trust and ratings at 8 p.m.

00:32:34.900 But they're banking on Fox just being a juggernaut that people kind of only have Fox if you're a conservative and you want to watch cable news.

00:32:43.620 Yes, you've got Newsmax in some places, OANN, but those have never been truly meaningful competitors.

00:32:48.700 So they're just banking on their, you know, their dominance.

00:32:51.960 Yeah. And listen, they're already putting out tons of stories that, oh, it's the real estate at at Fox that's valuable, not the stars that occupy that real estate.

00:33:03.980 And there is a little bit of truth to that. Right.

00:33:06.740 Like people didn't know Tucker Carlson would take off the way he did in the 8 p.m. time slot.

00:33:12.220 But the fact is, I don't I don't know if I buy that it's true.

00:33:17.160 I think Fox will have a very hard time reassembling the numbers in the key demographic after Tucker leaves.

00:33:27.380 And, you know, a lot of people like to say that, oh, Tucker Carlson, you know, at most he's talking to three million people a night.

00:33:35.660 And, you know, that's less than one percent of the country.

00:33:39.120 That's, you know, less than, you know, what point?

00:33:44.160 It's like point five, you know.

00:33:47.260 Who knows what percentage of Republican voters that actually?

00:33:50.420 I already had to do the math on those percentages on the demo and the overall.

00:33:54.000 Please don't bring me in on the math equations anymore.

00:33:56.460 No, that's that's all right.

00:33:57.900 But but it's actually not true that his influence was just for the three million people that watched him live.

00:34:06.300 Very unlike the days of Bill O'Reilly, Tucker's content traveled across digital media.

00:34:14.100 Right. Like it traveled across YouTube.

00:34:16.260 It traveled across Instagram and Facebook in a way that other Fox News content just doesn't.

00:34:22.920 And so he had a much larger influence than the numbers suggested.

00:34:29.520 And I just don't think there's another person who has both his broadcasting skill and his native intelligence to do that.

00:34:38.560 I mean, Tucker is Tucker is a unique bird in this industry.

00:34:42.520 I mean, I think for one, he doesn't even own a television home.

00:34:48.660 Right. Like he reads books.

00:34:50.340 And so he like necessarily brings a very kind of different sensibility to his broadcasting because of that, because natively and truly he's he is a great writer.

00:35:04.660 Right. That is really his skill.

00:35:07.920 I mean, he was he was basically a superlative prize winning journalist as a as a feature writer for not just the Weekly Standard, but also for Esquire magazine and, you know, any magazine he wanted to write for before he kind of took off in his television career.

00:35:29.300 So I think it's going to be very hard for for them to recoup that audience.

00:35:35.280 They may, however, they may, however, recoup the money because and I think this is kind of an understated part of the story and one that I don't think Fox wants to advertise.

00:35:45.020 But the advertising boycott against Tucker Carlson tonight was extremely effective.

00:35:50.940 Yeah. And, you know, that's why his his show was full of my pillow ads.

00:35:57.980 And, you know, Rachel Maddow is as over on MSNBC promoting all sorts of insane conspiracy theories about Vladimir Putin. 1.00

00:36:07.100 And she's selling Mercedes ads.

00:36:09.360 Right. Like and that's that's a huge difference.

00:36:12.820 And I don't think Fox wants to tell the truth, which is that if this was a financial decision, it was Fox caving into the left.

00:36:20.180 I mean, like that's that is part of the story here, too, that the left is able to exercise this kind of commercial influence over the Fox News brand.

00:36:31.320 That's actually quite interesting.

00:36:32.980 I hadn't I'd gotten to the place where I understood how Tucker wasn't making them a ton of money on the ad fees for sure.

00:36:39.340 I mean, on the subscription fee is probably a different story because he drives numbers and numbers are what gets DirecTV to pay more to have you as part of their offering.

00:36:46.820 Yeah, but I hadn't quite connect.

00:36:48.680 You're right. I mean, it's.

00:36:50.180 Well, why why is he not bringing in a lot of ad revenue?

00:36:54.120 It's because of these chicken shit companies that get scared thanks to sleeping giants.

00:36:59.700 And so in a way, it is a cave.

00:37:00.940 It is a cave to the left.

00:37:02.720 If you're going to hold that against the guy, if that's going to be.

00:37:05.480 I realize if you want to.

00:37:06.800 OK, but if you.

00:37:08.040 OK, so we understand that there is a distinct environmental problem that faces Republicans and they are judged by different standards.

00:37:14.500 So you operate on a standard that can navigate that environment.

00:37:20.300 I'm sorry.

00:37:22.040 He was a dishonest interlocutor.

00:37:24.600 No, he broadcast.

00:37:26.600 Disagree.

00:37:26.760 And disreputable content.

00:37:29.320 The notion that he would keep it.

00:37:30.860 The suggestion of what he was suggesting on January 6th was not provable, not falsifiable, because it was a conspiracy theory.

00:37:38.160 And frankly, yeah, if you're going to throw yourself on the fire for the conservative movement, just just to suggest, I would say, because I pride myself on this, that you can navigate the double standards that are applied to conservatism.

00:37:51.680 Get your message out and persuade persuadables in ways that don't draw fire just to make yourself a martyr.

00:37:57.940 Well, how have you advanced the conservative movement?

00:37:59.580 I see how you've advanced your own personal prospects.

00:38:01.400 Good for you.

00:38:02.640 How have you advanced the movement?

00:38:03.940 How have you had made my life any better?

00:38:07.380 MBD, you're going to take that one?

00:38:08.660 One thing I will say for Tucker in Tucker's defense is his, you know, his worldview of suspicion of institutions, which generates the stories about January 6th that Noah mentions, is also the one that generates ahead of everyone else.

00:38:26.220 Suspicion suspicion about Dr. Fauci's advice on masks or whether a willingness to talk about whether vaccines really prevented transmission of COVID-19.

00:38:37.460 And so whether or not vaccine mandates could even be rational, let alone justifiable as a matter of policy or the lab leak theory, right?

00:38:47.560 Like, I mean, he kind of was ahead of almost everyone, except maybe National Review, where Jim Garrity was very early on that as well.

00:38:57.680 And so, yeah, I mean, there is in media, the reason you need a diverse media in a republic like ours is because there are some truths that can be expressed in the New York Times.

00:39:09.060 And there's some truths that can only be expressed in tabloid media, like headless body and topless bar, right?

00:39:16.120 Like, that's a real news story, and only the New York Post can give it justice.

00:39:21.460 And it's the same thing with establishment trusting media and, you know, non-establishment media.

00:39:28.680 And I think the really big story, the really big kind of like bow around the Tucker Carlson Fox News story is that fundamentally Tucker Carlson is and wants to be an outsider media figure.

00:39:45.020 Like a true, like Joe Rogan, someone who floats theories, sometimes justifiably, sometimes, you know, you could say not justifiably, but stories that tilt against the establishment, against the major institutions, which he views as basically totally captive and corrupt.

00:40:05.440 And it leads to, I agree with Noah that it can lead to big mistakes, and it can even lead to legal liability when you make those mistakes.

00:40:14.840 But in our particular age, it sometimes leads to gold, which is, and that gold was found during the pandemic when our major public health institutions were lying to us, right?

00:40:27.940 And we're self-interestedly lying to us.

00:40:30.920 And if you begin with a hermeneutic of total suspicion of our institutions, you're going to get to that story first, and you're going to reap the most from it.

00:40:41.360 And he did.

00:40:42.240 And that's the other thing.

00:40:43.440 We didn't even touch on the FBI.

00:40:46.140 And, you know, people mocked the so-called deep state.

00:40:48.520 But then we've had all these revelations since then about the FBI actually targeting people who are on the right and actually trying to put people objecting to mask mandates on terrorist watch lists and call them domestic terrorists and so on.

00:41:00.120 And at Fox, when I was there, if you said that, you probably would have been fired for saying that, right?

00:41:05.500 And then you have people like Tucker who weren't afraid to press on these institutions that had been revered in conservative circles saying, this is bullshit.

00:41:14.500 It's right before your very eyes.

00:41:15.840 But he was on the leading edge of it.

00:41:17.240 He wasn't a follower.

00:41:18.900 So you're right.

00:41:19.740 He wasn't 100% right on 100% of the things.

00:41:22.440 But we needed his boldness as part of the national conversation.

00:41:25.660 And I think Tucker would be the first to admit he doesn't always get it right.

00:41:28.460 But he's, unlike most of these people, okay with admitting his frailty, his mistakes, and when he gets things wrong, unlike people like Rachel Maddow at your old network, Noah.

00:41:38.860 You know, I mean, I don't think I have to persuade you.

00:41:41.100 If we want to talk about who deals in disinformation, Fox News versus MSNBC, we could spend way more time on the latter.

00:41:49.080 I mean, okay, so Tucker was somewhat controversial and took some rhetorical risks.

00:41:52.620 What the hell is Joy Reid still doing on the air over there? 0.99

00:41:55.460 Truly, like, is there a more racist person on television?

00:41:59.640 How does she have a primetime role there? 1.00

00:42:03.440 Yeah, there's a bit of a hostage crisis, I would agree, particularly in the post-Andy Lack days over at MSNBC.

00:42:09.860 And I think Michael's point is very well taken, that a particular worldview that starts from the position of suspicion and hostility, although while eschewing paranoia, can get to these stories faster than those who start from a position of trust and deference.

00:42:28.160 But I disagree strongly with the notion that this outlook that he espoused, which somehow sometimes led him to conclusions before others did that turned out to be correct, is also matched by a humility that concedes when the facts warrant a reevaluation of his particular position.

00:42:50.400 I did not see that. In fact, I encountered precisely the opposite, and more often than not saw encouragement for individuals to dig in, despite contradictory evidence.

00:43:00.280 Well, he didn't bow on your issues.

00:43:01.760 Which is a pathway towards, again, and I'm just to briefly reiterate the point.

00:43:04.820 Because he didn't bow on your issues. He didn't bow on your issues.

00:43:06.020 But he, Tucker, unlike most of these people, I just had Glenn Greenwald on here the other day, giving me the full list.

00:43:10.400 Verifiable logic and the resistance to verifiable logic in pursuit of a comforting, caseting worldview did his audience a disservice.

00:43:19.900 They should be furious with him in the extent to which he exposed himself to what has happened to him.

00:43:24.040 So all the three million viewers who watch Tucker are idiots.

00:43:26.420 He betrayed them.

00:43:26.940 They've been misled.

00:43:27.960 They've been betrayed.

00:43:28.960 And they're just too dumb to understand that Tucker's a dishonest broker.

00:43:31.420 And that is precisely the persecution complex that he inculcated in people.

00:43:35.380 And persecution complexes are not empowering.

00:43:38.520 They are disempowering.

00:43:40.260 They rob you of agency.

00:43:41.520 So listening all day to people on Fox News tell them that the war in Ukraine is a good thing and that we really need to win it.

00:43:46.200 And then listening to an hour of Tucker saying it's terrible and what are we doing over there.

00:43:49.700 That it's all, they're too stupid.

00:43:51.760 They followed the messianic complex of Tucker Carlson.

00:43:54.980 And he's to blame for me.

00:43:56.420 People are smart.

00:43:57.280 Megan, that's what he alleges.

00:43:58.440 People tend to take information.

00:43:58.700 Megan, that's precisely what he alleges.

00:44:01.080 That you have been cowed and manipulated into a flawed cul-de-sac of logic that is sapping America of industry.

00:44:08.260 And material.

00:44:09.120 That's his case.

00:44:10.780 He offers another worldview, another view of things like Ukraine, which I realize you have very differing opinions from Tucker on.

00:44:17.840 And he's got the messianic power to completely erase everything else you've heard.

00:44:22.620 Or he's offering an alternative alternative viewpoint like Roger.

00:44:25.840 And people are persuaded by it.

00:44:28.520 Some three million plus people.

00:44:30.080 In fact, it's actually more than that because, as I learned when I was at Fox, it's not just the three million who watch you on Monday.

00:44:34.760 It's a different set that come back on Tuesday.

00:44:37.200 And it's a different set at the 45 mark than it was at the 01 mark.

00:44:40.620 And that's why people like Tucker and Bill are household names.

00:44:45.020 I once asked Roger that.

00:44:46.680 How do people know who I am?

00:44:48.060 If I'm getting two and a half million viewers a night or three million in my case, too, how does that happen?

00:44:52.020 Because it's different people every five minutes, every 15 minutes.

00:44:55.100 So they're all dumbasses.

00:44:57.120 No, a diversity of opinion on cable news is a good thing.

00:45:00.360 Having Tucker's worldview is a good thing.

00:45:02.060 I realize you think he was a purveyor of disinformation.

00:45:04.160 I'm not going to say he got everything right all the time.

00:45:06.140 But to say this is a cause for celebration to have his worldview pulled and have him silenced by the Fox News channel

00:45:11.000 without a meaningful alternative with his POV coming up behind him is nonsensical.

00:45:17.160 It is, which is why I never said anything of the sort.

00:45:20.020 I hardly would celebrate anybody losing their job in broadcasting, period.

00:45:23.460 I have never once called for, with the exception of a suspension for Martin Bashir,

00:45:27.520 when he said that he would he would like it if Sarah Palin, somebody defecated in her mouth.

00:45:32.040 That is when I thought the suspension was warranted.

00:45:34.560 It's the one and only time I'm very much on record.

00:45:36.940 I have very few unexpressed thoughts for the last decade.

00:45:39.680 Most of everything I think is on writing or in recording.

00:45:43.180 And I've never once called for a firing or a suspension.

00:45:45.940 Having different views is very similar, is very distinct.

00:45:48.860 I didn't suggest you called for it, but you certainly seem supportive of it.

00:45:52.340 And I think my position.

00:45:53.480 Oh, I don't think somebody who misleads an audience.

00:45:55.300 It's bad.

00:45:55.820 Should be allowed, should be allowed to mislead an audience without pushback.

00:45:59.300 Take it up with your former network.

00:46:00.660 Enjoy read.

00:46:01.420 Stand by.

00:46:01.820 They are, they are very much.

00:46:03.540 Well, you worked there happily for a long, long time, Noah.

00:46:05.860 You worked there happily for a long, long time.

00:46:07.600 Did you ever go to somebody and say,

00:46:09.980 we have purveyors of disinformation all across the primetime, all across the daytime?

00:46:14.140 What are we doing?

00:46:14.620 How can I work here?

00:46:15.460 And all I did was argue with them on air.

00:46:16.800 I'm very proud of my record at MSNBC.

00:46:17.760 So you did.

00:46:18.340 You went into management and said,

00:46:19.700 I cannot work next to these dishonest people.

00:46:22.680 It's bad for my country.

00:46:23.900 No, I didn't go behind the scenes.

00:46:25.320 I went on camera and argued with them.

00:46:27.500 You did.

00:46:27.960 Did you ever go on Joy Reid's show and call out her racism?

00:46:31.040 No, the two of us actually never made eye contact.

00:46:33.220 The only time we were ever on the same set with each other was on Morning Joe.

00:46:37.320 And she was not receptive to me on my presence.

00:46:41.920 I got to squeeze in a break because we're going to get cut off.

00:46:43.700 Stand by.

00:46:44.140 We'll be right back with a fiery National Review Day.

00:46:47.040 Noah and MBD stay with us.

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00:47:22.880 We'll get back to our guests in just a couple of minutes.

00:47:26.180 But first, speaking of Joy Reid, just the other night in the wake of Tucker's departure,

00:47:29.700 she actually had the nerve to ask,

00:47:31.700 has there ever been a more racist person in news, in cable primetime news?

00:47:36.820 Preacher, heal thyself. Look at this.

00:47:39.640 But in America, there's a thing about both white vigilantism and white tears,

00:47:47.120 particularly male white tears.

00:47:50.600 Really white tears in general, because that's what carrots are, right?

00:47:54.120 They carrot out, and then as soon as they get caught, it's like,

00:47:56.540 green waterworks.

00:47:58.920 White Americans are never afraid of the cops, 0.86

00:48:00.820 even when they're committing insurrection,

00:48:03.580 because in their minds, they are this country.

00:48:05.840 Ron DeSantis has been waging a full-scale war against the black past. 0.99

00:48:11.520 It's illegal to make white people feel uncomfortable in Florida.

00:48:15.100 You also have the restrictions in schools over what can be taught about race and gender,

00:48:19.080 for fear white children might feel bad when they find out

00:48:21.900 that not all white people in history were heroes.

00:48:24.020 This country was built on the idea that white men had a particular kind of freedom 0.86

00:48:31.940 and a particular kind of citizenship that only they have.

00:48:35.060 Do any of you guys trust Uncle Clarence?

00:48:37.360 These Republicans are dangerous.

00:48:39.060 They're dangerous to our national security,

00:48:41.100 because stoking that kind of soft white nationalism

00:48:44.460 eventually leads to the hardcore stuff.

00:48:48.660 The answer, Joy, is it's you.

00:48:51.420 You are officially the most racist person on television

00:48:55.060 now that your colleague Tiffany Cross is gone.

00:48:57.260 Work on it.

00:48:58.460 We'll be right back with more of the National Review, guys.

00:49:03.680 So guess what?

00:49:05.900 Anthony Fauci thought it might be a good time to come out

00:49:09.200 and do a huge Maya cult.

00:49:11.560 No, no.

00:49:13.660 He has finally admitted some of the things that people like you guys,

00:49:18.340 Jim Garrity, yours truly, have been saying for a long, long time,

00:49:22.480 but without any sort of a mea culpa or apology whatsoever.

00:49:26.040 He gave an interview to David Wallace-Wells,

00:49:29.080 who's been on this program several times, of the New York Times,

00:49:32.700 and was as close to a voice of reason at the New York Times

00:49:35.940 as you were going to get during the COVID pandemic.

00:49:39.280 I mean, he wasn't exactly like Garrity,

00:49:41.600 but he wasn't like a Purva Mandevelli,

00:49:44.720 their lunatic reporter who kept getting facts wrong every day either. 0.62

00:49:48.660 So Fauci sat with him.

00:49:50.860 They describe it as Fauci's most extensive interview yet.

00:49:54.720 They say, in this, Anthony Fauci wrestles with the hard lessons of the pandemic

00:49:57.840 and the decisions that will define his legacy.

00:50:01.920 So here's, let me kick it off with masks, okay?

00:50:08.300 Fauci admits, in this article, hold on, I had it right here,

00:50:12.640 and now I'm looking for it.

00:50:15.460 One, two, shoot, sorry, guys.

00:50:17.780 My papers are all over the place today.

00:50:19.820 I'm so disorganized.

00:50:21.520 Let me, he basically admits that paper masks don't work

00:50:27.120 and that the N95s, well, here it is.

00:50:30.100 I found it.

00:50:32.140 Wallace-Wells asks about whether they work.

00:50:33.940 A study from Bangladesh, in places where masks use tripled,

00:50:38.160 positive test results were reduced by less than 10%.

00:50:41.360 So he says, I'm somebody who doesn't think that masks work,

00:50:45.200 but we have a study like that, so what's the story?

00:50:47.540 And Fauci says, it's a good point in general,

00:50:49.840 but I disagree with your premise a bit.

00:50:52.320 From a broad public health standpoint,

00:50:55.480 okay, from a broad public health standpoint,

00:50:57.660 at the population level, masks work at the margins,

00:51:03.000 maybe 10%.

00:51:04.800 I'm going to tell you what he said next,

00:51:08.400 but can we just, I want to repeat.

00:51:10.560 From a broad public health standpoint,

00:51:12.600 that's what he was supposed to be overseeing.

00:51:14.600 At the population level, again, same,

00:51:18.000 masks work at the margins, maybe 10%.

00:51:22.860 Then he goes on to qualify,

00:51:24.960 but for an individual who religiously wears a mask,

00:51:28.820 a well-fitted KN95 or N95,

00:51:32.000 it's not at the margin.

00:51:33.160 It really does work.

00:51:34.660 Just in case you forgot,

00:51:35.900 and I know neither of you guys did,

00:51:37.660 here's what Fauci was saying.

00:51:39.600 These soundbites are from 2021, 2022,

00:51:44.380 over the course of every variant,

00:51:46.580 nothing would have distinguished these positions as,

00:51:49.840 oh, well, that made sense.

00:51:50.640 No, this is what Fauci was saying

00:51:52.900 throughout the course of the pandemic.

00:51:55.180 He and Walensky's in here too.

00:51:57.780 Are cotton and surgical masks

00:52:00.200 effective at preventing the spread of Omicron?

00:52:03.340 When the CDC says they are effective,

00:52:06.380 in fact, they are.

00:52:08.080 New science that has demonstrated the value of masking,

00:52:10.880 three and a half times increased risk of school outbreaks

00:52:13.880 if you're masking, if you're unmasked in schools.

00:52:16.520 Let me just state for the record

00:52:18.380 that masks are not theater.

00:52:20.640 When everybody finally realized

00:52:21.980 it was important to wear a mask,

00:52:24.060 that influenza was sort of off the map.

00:52:27.240 The evidence is clear.

00:52:28.920 Masks can help prevent the spread of COVID-19

00:52:31.260 by reducing your chance of infection

00:52:33.160 by more than 80%.

00:52:35.160 You're wearing a mask to give comfort to others.

00:52:37.360 You're not wearing a mask because of any science.

00:52:39.820 I totally disagree with you.

00:52:42.080 It's unbelievable.

00:52:43.540 Who would like to start?

00:52:46.100 I'll go.

00:52:47.300 They both are raising their hands.

00:52:48.840 Michael Hunter and Doherty, please.

00:52:49.800 Let's go.

00:52:50.220 No, let's go with Noah Rothman

00:52:51.340 since he had such a contentious exchange before the break.

00:52:53.940 Let's go to the candy party.

00:52:55.460 Yeah, we can be friends again.

00:52:56.760 But yes, the guy has been on record.

00:53:00.060 All he did is talk for two and a half years.

00:53:02.540 So it's kind of unsurprising

00:53:04.640 that he has left behind a breadcrumb trail

00:53:07.040 for anybody to follow back to a contradictory statement

00:53:09.920 that he's made so many.

00:53:11.880 He said in that interview that,

00:53:13.620 you know, for kids, young kids,

00:53:15.440 that a very well-fitting KN95 mask

00:53:18.160 is the sort of thing that provides some protection,

00:53:20.420 but the other stuff really doesn't.

00:53:21.940 And you don't have to have a double-blind peer-reviewed study.

00:53:28.060 You just have to have some passing experience with children

00:53:30.160 to know that they don't wear masks.

00:53:33.020 There's no such thing as a well-fitting KN95 mask 1.00

00:53:35.840 on a toddler because they will rip it off their face. 0.99

00:53:38.640 This is just common sense.

00:53:39.960 And it's the sort of thing that he also said

00:53:41.900 later on in one of his many interviews

00:53:44.060 that mask wearing as a convention

00:53:46.260 should be something we should take with us in perpetuity,

00:53:49.160 regardless of the pandemic

00:53:51.300 or the level of transmission of this particular virus,

00:53:53.580 because it's just good public health policy.

00:53:56.240 It's also insane.

00:53:58.140 It's not the sort of thing you can engineer in a population.

00:54:01.160 He seems very frustrated

00:54:02.600 with how the public has perceived him.

00:54:04.900 And he speaks in veiled and masked ways

00:54:09.360 that he insists you interpret literally.

00:54:13.260 So when he says, show me the evidence,

00:54:14.920 as he said in this interview,

00:54:15.820 show me the evidence where I advocated,

00:54:17.280 where I shut down schools

00:54:18.740 or businesses or factories.

00:54:20.800 I think he literally means,

00:54:22.200 show me the document that I signed

00:54:23.620 shutting down schools or boarding up businesses.

00:54:25.880 No such thing exists.

00:54:27.480 All we have are reams of evidence

00:54:29.720 of his support for these policies,

00:54:31.960 up to and including a statement

00:54:33.380 that he gave to reporters in October of 2020,

00:54:35.360 quote, I recommended to the president

00:54:37.220 that we shut the country down, unquote.

00:54:40.140 Pretty unambiguous, wouldn't you say?

00:54:42.580 Pretty good.

00:54:43.140 Yeah, it's pretty on the nose.

00:54:45.300 MBD, just again,

00:54:46.020 from a broad public health standpoint,

00:54:48.680 standpoint at a population level,

00:54:50.720 masks work at the margins,

00:54:52.840 maybe 10 percent.

00:54:54.300 Then he differentiates N95s. 0.99

00:54:56.800 So he's clearly talking about the surgical masks,

00:54:59.080 those cotton masks that everybody was in

00:55:01.600 for the vast, vast majority of the pandemic

00:55:03.400 until the very end.

00:55:04.340 I run again,

00:55:05.080 just the first part of that

00:55:06.060 Sot montage we played

00:55:07.220 with Fauci and Dana Bash,

00:55:09.580 January of 22.

00:55:11.240 We were well into the pandemic.

00:55:13.920 She's asking him about cotton and surgical masks.

00:55:17.520 Are cotton and surgical masks

00:55:19.440 effective at preventing the spread of Omicron?

00:55:22.740 When the CDC says they are effective,

00:55:25.800 in fact, they are.

00:55:27.520 New science that has done.

00:55:29.940 Michael, I can't with this guy.

00:55:32.300 And we know,

00:55:34.840 we know he knew better.

00:55:36.700 We know he knew better

00:55:38.320 because at the very beginning of the pandemic,

00:55:39.940 he said that the kind of masks

00:55:42.880 that you buy at a pharmacy

00:55:44.100 made of cloth or jersey

00:55:45.940 are not effective.

00:55:47.840 We knew they would not be effective

00:55:49.540 the moment we knew

00:55:50.700 that COVID-19 was airborne,

00:55:53.600 that it was not about droplets,

00:55:56.580 right?

00:55:56.880 If you inhaled a cigarette smoke,

00:56:02.080 put on the cloth mask

00:56:03.960 that most people wore

00:56:05.040 and exhaled,

00:56:06.760 the smoke just flies out

00:56:08.060 just like the virus would.

00:56:10.360 That's why it doesn't really work at all

00:56:12.480 to stop the spread of the virus.

00:56:15.320 And yet,

00:56:16.100 and he wore those jersey masks

00:56:18.420 all the time.

00:56:20.020 But there was,

00:56:21.140 like Noah said,

00:56:21.900 there was even a breadcrumb of trails

00:56:23.540 that he,

00:56:24.300 a breadcrumb trail

00:56:25.500 that he knew the truth.

00:56:26.880 Because sometimes during the pandemic,

00:56:28.320 he would say,

00:56:29.060 well,

00:56:29.580 masks are a symbol

00:56:31.460 of the sort of thing

00:56:33.060 we should be doing,

00:56:34.560 right?

00:56:34.820 So he's kind of like,

00:56:35.860 it's in the back of his head

00:56:37.120 that he knows that this is ineffective.

00:56:39.260 And yet,

00:56:40.720 it was a policy inflicted on everyone,

00:56:43.240 including children

00:56:44.320 who didn't spread the virus

00:56:46.200 as efficiently as adults

00:56:47.660 and who didn't suffer from the virus

00:56:49.480 as much as adults

00:56:50.980 or hardly at all.

00:56:52.540 But they suffered from the mask mandates.

00:56:55.140 If you went into any preschool,

00:56:56.880 with three and four-year-olds

00:56:59.320 that were in masks

00:57:00.600 for two years,

00:57:01.640 you saw kids drooling

00:57:03.560 into those masks

00:57:04.580 with rashes on their faces.

00:57:07.340 You saw states require kids

00:57:10.540 to wear masks

00:57:11.560 with masked speech therapists

00:57:14.560 during speech therapy,

00:57:16.960 absolutely retarding

00:57:19.000 their vocal development

00:57:21.040 and their milestone,

00:57:22.700 developmental milestones.

00:57:23.580 This was exactly the policy

00:57:26.020 that the European CDC

00:57:28.200 warned against

00:57:29.800 when it said that

00:57:31.100 you shouldn't be masking children

00:57:32.780 under six or five years old

00:57:35.160 because it can cause distress

00:57:36.980 or developmental delays

00:57:38.560 or other socialization problems.

00:57:40.980 people know that that is true

00:57:43.760 and yet,

00:57:45.100 and Fauci knew that was true

00:57:46.760 and yet would not contradict

00:57:48.540 and in fact reinforce

00:57:51.020 Citi's recommendations

00:57:51.920 for childhood masking

00:57:53.680 for over two years

00:57:56.020 doing incalculable harm

00:57:58.300 to young people,

00:57:59.700 especially.

00:58:00.180 and that is what is so outrageous

00:58:03.560 about him

00:58:04.300 and I think

00:58:05.840 every time

00:58:06.880 I think about

00:58:07.460 I'm going to say

00:58:08.240 a nameless woman

00:58:09.140 who contemplating this

00:58:11.560 during the pandemic

00:58:12.340 and contemplating

00:58:13.880 Fauci's announcements

00:58:15.060 would look at him

00:58:16.660 and think

00:58:17.340 and think out loud

00:58:18.880 in my presence,

00:58:20.280 why is this man still standing?

00:58:22.340 Where are the men?

00:58:23.680 Like,

00:58:24.500 why hasn't this guy

00:58:25.640 been taken out?

00:58:26.340 This guy is a total fraud,

00:58:28.800 knows he's a fraud

00:58:30.260 and fundamentally

00:58:31.500 he speaks to the American people

00:58:33.800 like we're idiots, 0.66

00:58:35.580 right?

00:58:35.880 Like,

00:58:36.460 he thinks we are children

00:58:37.760 that just need to be directed

00:58:38.960 and told what to do

00:58:40.280 and can't understand the evidence,

00:58:42.540 can't handle

00:58:43.280 being told

00:58:44.460 the actual confidence levels

00:58:46.260 that various health bodies have

00:58:48.960 in this recommendation

00:58:49.940 or that recommendation.

00:58:51.960 No,

00:58:52.360 everything is portrayed

00:58:53.340 as completely

00:58:55.400 and utterly infallible

00:58:57.180 when it comes from Fauci.

00:58:58.800 I am the science,

00:59:00.600 he said.

00:59:01.640 So,

00:59:02.520 you know,

00:59:03.900 he basically

00:59:05.200 does not respect the fact

00:59:06.980 that the United States

00:59:08.100 is made up of

00:59:09.260 free citizens

00:59:10.780 who are self-governing

00:59:11.840 and he is their,

00:59:13.700 supposed to be,

00:59:14.500 their servant.

00:59:15.620 He is a public servant,

00:59:17.000 an employee

00:59:17.620 and yet

00:59:19.540 he acts instead

00:59:21.180 like a dictator

00:59:22.480 but now he resents

00:59:23.680 that he has this

00:59:24.760 reputation.

00:59:26.060 And I'm sorry,

00:59:27.860 he says,

00:59:28.300 I didn't close down the schools.

00:59:30.080 Every school district

00:59:30.980 in the country

00:59:31.620 prepared a boilerplate message

00:59:33.760 to parents

00:59:34.480 about masks

00:59:35.920 or Zoom school

00:59:36.940 or closures

00:59:37.900 or quarantine policies

00:59:39.760 saying,

00:59:40.540 we are following

00:59:42.180 recommendations

00:59:43.140 laid out by

00:59:44.080 county

00:59:44.960 and state

00:59:45.900 health departments

00:59:46.780 in turn following

00:59:48.240 recommendations

00:59:49.300 from the CDC.

00:59:51.160 So,

00:59:51.780 he knows

00:59:53.560 that the public

00:59:54.820 health bureaucracy

00:59:55.420 in Washington

00:59:56.060 was in effect

00:59:57.700 setting policy

00:59:58.920 for much of the country

00:59:59.960 for much of the pandemic.

01:00:01.320 He was their God.

01:00:02.440 Here's that portion of it.

01:00:04.080 Fauci on schools.

01:00:05.700 Wallace Wells says,

01:00:06.720 but when people say,

01:00:07.960 no,

01:00:09.540 he says,

01:00:10.440 okay,

01:00:10.780 sorry,

01:00:11.100 this is all Fauci.

01:00:12.100 This is Fauci says,

01:00:13.040 when people say Fauci

01:00:13.920 shut down the economy,

01:00:15.320 it wasn't Fauci.

01:00:16.880 The CDC was the organization

01:00:18.180 that made those recommendations.

01:00:19.840 I happen to be perceived

01:00:21.300 as the personification

01:00:22.400 of the recommendations

01:00:23.580 but show me a school

01:00:25.360 that I shut down

01:00:26.380 and show me a factory

01:00:27.820 that I shut down.

01:00:28.920 Never.

01:00:29.260 I never did.

01:00:30.960 I gave a public health

01:00:31.940 recommendation

01:00:32.480 that echoed

01:00:33.260 the CDC's recommendation

01:00:34.600 and people made a decision

01:00:36.300 based on that.

01:00:37.980 But I never criticized

01:00:39.120 the people

01:00:39.600 who had to make

01:00:40.280 their decisions

01:00:40.920 one way or the other.

01:00:43.440 Okay.

01:00:44.200 Before we,

01:00:45.160 before we go,

01:00:46.180 leave masks though,

01:00:47.660 Noah,

01:00:48.840 for two years,

01:00:51.120 for two years,

01:00:53.080 not only did

01:00:53.720 I have to wear a mask

01:00:55.540 and so many people

01:00:56.480 listening to this

01:00:57.000 had to wear a mask

01:00:57.520 and you guys

01:00:57.920 had to wear a mask

01:00:58.480 when we got on

01:00:58.880 an airplane

01:00:59.280 or any public

01:00:59.880 transportation

01:01:00.440 or for some period

01:01:01.460 of time outdoors.

01:01:03.180 Outdoors,

01:01:03.640 we had to,

01:01:03.940 like when,

01:01:04.260 during the,

01:01:04.960 when the pandemic

01:01:05.600 first broke out,

01:01:06.280 we were in Montana

01:01:06.840 to take my kids

01:01:07.700 horseback riding,

01:01:08.420 which was the only

01:01:09.000 thing that was open.

01:01:10.120 So we just wanted

01:01:10.580 to get them out

01:01:11.040 for one day.

01:01:11.540 We had to wear masks

01:01:12.280 outside in Montana,

01:01:13.900 a red state.

01:01:15.040 Anyway,

01:01:15.600 that's a level

01:01:16.140 of insanity.

01:01:17.200 And for two years

01:01:17.940 thereafter,

01:01:18.500 my kids,

01:01:19.240 your kids,

01:01:20.020 MBD's kids,

01:01:20.960 Garrity,

01:01:21.620 they had to go

01:01:22.180 to school every day

01:01:23.320 with those damn 0.97

01:01:24.460 garments wrapped

01:01:25.300 around their faces,

01:01:26.180 no matter whether

01:01:26.780 they were hacking up

01:01:27.480 the lung,

01:01:28.120 whether they had

01:01:28.640 snot running down

01:01:29.380 their noses,

01:01:30.160 whatever it was,

01:01:31.040 they had to put them

01:01:31.640 on and they had

01:01:32.140 to keep those masks

01:01:32.700 on their face

01:01:33.180 all day long,

01:01:33.920 impairing,

01:01:34.400 impairing language

01:01:35.000 learning and so on.

01:01:35.840 And,

01:01:36.160 and as bad as I felt

01:01:37.160 for my own children,

01:01:38.380 remember this video?

01:01:39.420 This video sums out

01:01:40.340 how bad it was

01:01:41.440 for the real littles

01:01:42.940 who in places like

01:01:43.960 New York had to mask

01:01:44.800 up when they were

01:01:45.540 three years old,

01:01:47.260 two years old

01:01:48.100 in a day.

01:01:48.600 this video stuck out

01:01:51.120 for me from the moment

01:01:51.880 that we played it

01:01:52.700 and it's his fault.

01:01:54.080 Here it is.

01:01:56.880 Put your mask on.

01:02:00.980 You gotta wear it on.

01:02:02.660 No, you gotta keep it on.

01:02:07.420 Put your mask on.

01:02:10.420 There you go.

01:02:11.220 Keep it right there.

01:02:12.640 Yay, Mason!

01:02:14.240 Yay! 0.99

01:02:14.560 Keep it on, Mason.

01:02:18.900 Look,

01:02:19.400 we're gonna keep it

01:02:20.020 right here.

01:02:20.880 Mama,

01:02:21.640 look at my

01:02:22.560 mama.

01:02:27.880 Oh! 0.60

01:02:29.580 Speakable!

01:02:30.540 I see you.

01:02:31.620 Keep your mask on.

01:02:33.560 Put your mask back on.

01:02:37.240 What are you looking at?

01:02:39.180 Keep it on your face.

01:02:41.500 You gotta keep it

01:02:42.560 on your face

01:02:43.140 so we go outside.

01:02:44.560 There you go.

01:02:47.860 Yeah!

01:02:50.260 Mason.

01:02:51.340 God,

01:02:51.880 God!

01:02:55.140 Sweet baby.

01:02:57.140 Sweet baby.

01:02:57.880 He's obviously only,

01:02:59.000 what,

01:02:59.460 maybe a year old.

01:03:00.940 New York daycare,

01:03:02.280 September 2021.

01:03:04.000 Absolutely disgusting.

01:03:05.100 And now this guy

01:03:05.560 has a nerve to turn around

01:03:06.440 and say,

01:03:06.860 you know,

01:03:07.000 at the margins,

01:03:07.580 maybe 10%.

01:03:08.280 It's heart-rending.

01:03:11.060 And to compartmentalize

01:03:12.420 that,

01:03:12.860 you require the sort of

01:03:14.060 technocratic

01:03:14.800 lack of humanity

01:03:17.640 that loves the public

01:03:19.660 but hates people.

01:03:21.020 And that's the sort of

01:03:22.280 mentality that he

01:03:23.360 embodied.

01:03:24.260 The notion

01:03:24.640 that he would suggest

01:03:26.200 that he never

01:03:26.860 criticized policymakers,

01:03:28.480 all the man did

01:03:29.240 was criticize policymakers

01:03:30.600 when their policies

01:03:31.840 went against his preferences.

01:03:33.480 Republican-led Florida,

01:03:34.720 he was unsparing.

01:03:36.300 Democrat-led Michigan,

01:03:38.060 he was unsparing,

01:03:39.480 saying these places

01:03:40.220 were tempting fate

01:03:41.260 and maybe we'll have

01:03:42.320 to punish you

01:03:43.300 with something akin

01:03:44.360 to lockdown 2.0

01:03:45.680 for failing to abide

01:03:46.820 by the recommendations

01:03:48.040 of your superiors

01:03:49.480 and your betters

01:03:50.160 in the public health bureaucracy.

01:03:51.700 He has evinced

01:03:52.800 so much courage

01:03:53.920 of his own conviction

01:03:54.760 that he doesn't seem

01:03:55.940 to recognize

01:03:56.640 that it's distasteful

01:03:58.520 when he admits,

01:03:59.440 as he has admitted,

01:04:00.380 that he has lied

01:04:02.080 and manipulated individuals

01:04:03.780 in order to be changed

01:04:05.120 and shape their behaviors,

01:04:07.140 that he just simply

01:04:07.940 made up the threshold

01:04:09.280 at which point

01:04:09.860 we could experience

01:04:10.580 herd immunity

01:04:11.180 because he said

01:04:12.140 that would boost

01:04:12.640 vaccination rates,

01:04:13.960 that he simply lied

01:04:14.860 about the efficacy

01:04:15.580 of masking

01:04:16.200 as he understood it

01:04:17.480 in order to prevent people

01:04:18.940 from buying masks

01:04:19.860 when the public health,

01:04:21.160 when PPE,

01:04:22.560 public protection mechanisms

01:04:24.120 were necessary

01:04:24.740 for public health officials.

01:04:26.780 He has very little regard

01:04:29.400 for you

01:04:29.940 or your intelligence

01:04:30.740 and profound respect

01:04:32.580 for his own.

01:04:33.840 And it's extremely off-putting.

01:04:35.500 The notion here

01:04:36.180 that he's been done

01:04:38.920 a raw deal

01:04:39.800 by posterity

01:04:41.000 is profoundly myopic.

01:04:43.660 He has nobody

01:04:44.200 to blame for himself

01:04:45.120 and he's so averse

01:04:46.540 to that sort of introspection

01:04:47.740 that I don't know

01:04:48.300 if he'll ever encounter it.

01:04:49.760 He's delusional.

01:04:50.940 He's delusional.

01:04:51.840 Go ahead, MB.

01:04:52.700 In some ways,

01:04:53.600 he's totally craven as well.

01:04:55.540 I mean,

01:04:55.720 when we think about

01:04:56.800 his behavior,

01:04:57.640 like, you know,

01:04:58.760 yes, he's full of self-regard, 0.61

01:05:00.460 but also he's a craven worm.

01:05:03.660 I mean,

01:05:03.820 when he's brought onto television

01:05:05.180 and the television,

01:05:06.720 the liberal television host

01:05:07.980 presents to him

01:05:09.400 a little bit of video

01:05:10.320 of Southerners

01:05:11.580 attending a college football game,

01:05:14.500 he knows that his,

01:05:16.520 the social expectation for him

01:05:18.360 is to condemn them

01:05:20.080 and to say that it's dangerous

01:05:21.520 and that there's going to be

01:05:22.420 a massive outbreak

01:05:23.460 in Texas

01:05:24.360 because people went

01:05:25.860 to opening day

01:05:26.680 to see the Texas Rangers

01:05:27.800 play outside

01:05:29.060 on a 90-degree day

01:05:30.580 when we have every reason

01:05:32.280 to think

01:05:32.860 that COVID is not

01:05:34.140 actually transmitting well

01:05:35.620 because it's hot,

01:05:36.880 it's sunny,

01:05:37.700 and people are outdoors,

01:05:38.980 and it's also

01:05:41.440 not even in season.

01:05:42.960 It was,

01:05:43.340 we knew it was

01:05:43.920 a seasonal disease

01:05:45.420 at that point

01:05:46.340 and that,

01:05:46.960 you know,

01:05:47.360 the surges come

01:05:48.300 all at once

01:05:49.040 based on factors

01:05:51.640 that have nothing

01:05:52.300 to do

01:05:52.920 with just

01:05:53.920 individual human behavior

01:05:55.160 but with how long

01:05:56.340 it's been

01:05:56.700 since the last variant

01:05:57.780 blew through the region.

01:06:00.340 He knew all this

01:06:01.000 and yet he would go on TV

01:06:02.400 and he would say

01:06:03.640 the politically appointed

01:06:05.080 thing for him to say

01:06:06.240 and he's doing

01:06:07.380 the same thing now

01:06:08.600 in some ways

01:06:09.160 because people,

01:06:10.200 the spell has been broken,

01:06:11.720 more and more people

01:06:12.640 woke up,

01:06:13.780 wised up

01:06:14.500 at the end of the pandemic

01:06:15.840 and now he's backtracking.

01:06:17.360 He is,

01:06:17.860 he is a worm,

01:06:19.520 the very opposite

01:06:20.580 of a public health leader,

01:06:23.240 the exact opposite qualities

01:06:25.700 that you want

01:06:26.460 in a person

01:06:27.740 of that position.

01:06:29.560 All he knows how to do

01:06:31.040 is to lead around

01:06:32.760 and manipulate

01:06:33.840 what other scientists say

01:06:35.840 because his department

01:06:37.040 along with

01:06:38.040 the NIH

01:06:39.960 controls

01:06:41.620 basically the scientific budget

01:06:44.500 for almost every scientist

01:06:46.540 working in the country.

01:06:47.760 Yeah,

01:06:48.140 that's right.

01:06:48.500 At universities.

01:06:49.000 They have to kiss his ring

01:06:50.600 and do whatever he says.

01:06:52.140 We've seen that time and time again.

01:06:53.340 He controls their salaries.

01:06:54.240 Let me turn us to origins,

01:06:56.000 lab leak versus natural

01:06:57.260 because this is another thing

01:06:58.680 he lies about.

01:06:59.720 He lies.

01:07:00.660 I mean,

01:07:00.880 there's no other way

01:07:01.560 of putting it.

01:07:02.160 He lied to Rand Paul

01:07:03.140 under oath in Congress

01:07:04.360 about whether they were doing

01:07:05.880 gain-of-function research

01:07:07.020 among other things

01:07:08.040 and he's lied to us

01:07:09.500 including in this interview.

01:07:11.660 Wells Wells asked him

01:07:12.820 about origins.

01:07:14.980 Fauci says,

01:07:15.580 I feel that until you have

01:07:16.560 definitive proof

01:07:17.280 of one or the other,

01:07:18.060 meaning lab leak or natural,

01:07:19.320 it is essential

01:07:20.360 to have an open mind.

01:07:22.660 Okay,

01:07:23.780 great.

01:07:24.860 Work on that.

01:07:25.880 And I have been this way

01:07:27.120 from the very beginning

01:07:28.220 as if we haven't all seen

01:07:30.080 those emails

01:07:30.780 between Fauci and Collins

01:07:32.260 who was running,

01:07:33.300 he was his boss,

01:07:34.660 the NIH at the time,

01:07:35.880 saying,

01:07:36.220 we've got to squash

01:07:36.760 this lab leak theory

01:07:37.660 right away.

01:07:38.580 Very dangerous.

01:07:39.280 Has to be dismissed

01:07:39.840 as fringe,

01:07:40.420 as conspiracy.

01:07:41.400 And Fauci worked to do that

01:07:42.560 by getting all those scientists,

01:07:43.880 those virologists

01:07:44.520 to write that piece

01:07:45.320 in Science or Nature magazine

01:07:47.320 saying lab leak.

01:07:48.780 No,

01:07:49.300 it couldn't have been

01:07:49.960 definitely natural origins

01:07:51.140 two days after they all

01:07:52.500 came to him and said,

01:07:53.400 holy shit,

01:07:54.200 this thing looks man-made,

01:07:55.280 looks engineered.

01:07:56.080 After brow beating by Fauci,

01:07:57.880 they changed their tune.

01:07:58.980 Okay,

01:07:59.320 this is the guy

01:08:00.080 you have to maintain

01:08:01.040 an open mind

01:08:01.580 and I've been this way

01:08:02.320 from the very beginning.

01:08:03.560 Then he goes on to say,

01:08:04.680 if it's a natural occurrence

01:08:07.220 for goodness sake,

01:08:08.940 natural,

01:08:09.320 right?

01:08:09.500 Meaning comes from animals.

01:08:11.140 Natural occurrences

01:08:12.060 occur all the time.

01:08:13.400 We should have been

01:08:14.600 doing something about that.

01:08:16.260 If it's a lab leak,

01:08:17.820 then we really should have been

01:08:19.060 much,

01:08:19.460 much more attentive

01:08:20.060 to protocols

01:08:20.840 and training

01:08:21.780 and restrictions.

01:08:22.840 And he goes on

01:08:23.720 to add this.

01:08:25.160 First of all,

01:08:26.680 all of the intelligence groups

01:08:28.360 agree that this was not

01:08:30.300 an engineered virus.

01:08:32.840 And if it's not

01:08:33.580 an engineered virus,

01:08:34.800 what actually leaked

01:08:35.620 from the lab?

01:08:36.480 If it wasn't

01:08:37.320 an engineered virus,

01:08:38.860 somebody went out

01:08:39.800 into the field,

01:08:40.980 got infected,

01:08:42.220 came back to the lab,

01:08:43.400 and then spread it out

01:08:44.700 to other people.

01:08:45.700 That ain't a lab leak,

01:08:47.020 strictly speaking.

01:08:48.300 That's a natural occurrence.

01:08:50.280 Do you see the

01:08:50.820 intellectual dishonesty here?

01:08:52.520 First of all,

01:08:53.100 it is not true

01:08:54.260 that all of the

01:08:54.940 intelligence groups

01:08:55.620 agree that this was

01:08:56.260 not an engineered virus.

01:08:57.520 They agree it wasn't

01:08:58.380 made as a biological weapon.

01:09:00.240 That's the only thing

01:09:00.800 that the lab,

01:09:01.400 that the experts have said.

01:09:02.740 They don't think

01:09:03.200 this was made intentionally

01:09:04.140 by the Chinese

01:09:04.680 to hurt people.

01:09:05.600 But the FBI,

01:09:06.900 the Department of Energy

01:09:07.620 and others

01:09:08.200 are growing more

01:09:09.000 and more confident

01:09:09.620 that it did develop

01:09:11.280 as a result

01:09:11.700 of a lab intentionality

01:09:13.780 to create gain-of-function,

01:09:15.260 to do gain-of-function research

01:09:16.480 that then led

01:09:17.300 to the release

01:09:17.760 of the virus

01:09:18.180 in the lab,

01:09:19.300 in the lab.

01:09:20.400 So he,

01:09:21.260 Noah,

01:09:21.500 this theory that,

01:09:22.320 oh,

01:09:23.120 you know,

01:09:23.640 the bat lady 0.54

01:09:24.420 just took a stroll

01:09:25.620 through a cave,

01:09:26.800 caught this new coronavirus

01:09:28.320 from a bat,

01:09:29.620 went back into the lab

01:09:31.040 where they were

01:09:31.440 manipulating coronaviruses,

01:09:32.920 and boom,

01:09:33.880 it originated.

01:09:34.680 That's,

01:09:35.000 he's so dishonest.

01:09:36.260 And it would be one thing

01:09:38.700 to just,

01:09:39.300 you know,

01:09:39.740 entertain the prospect

01:09:40.880 of ambiguity

01:09:41.780 or what we know

01:09:43.600 and what we don't know.

01:09:45.160 And,

01:09:45.700 as you say,

01:09:46.840 open up,

01:09:47.420 keep an open mind.

01:09:48.600 He was not keeping

01:09:49.580 an open mind,

01:09:50.560 nor was he being honest

01:09:51.680 as the documents

01:09:52.480 that you just read aloud

01:09:53.580 demonstrate.

01:09:54.800 If he were to be honest

01:09:55.960 and say,

01:09:56.980 well,

01:09:57.200 honestly,

01:09:57.500 we just simply can't afford

01:09:58.920 to alienate Beijing,

01:10:00.660 a hostile and paranoid state

01:10:02.040 because we require

01:10:02.800 their cooperation

01:10:03.580 at this particular moment,

01:10:05.180 that would have been

01:10:06.120 distasteful.

01:10:07.220 But it would have been

01:10:07.700 at least honest.

01:10:08.520 It would have been a rationale

01:10:09.280 you can wrap your head around.

01:10:10.880 What he said instead

01:10:11.760 was mockery,

01:10:13.520 mockery of the notion

01:10:14.400 that anybody would entertain

01:10:15.460 the idea that this state,

01:10:16.720 which has regular occurring

01:10:18.340 lab leaks

01:10:19.200 of other pathogens,

01:10:20.900 this is not something

01:10:21.700 that's rare

01:10:22.460 and it's certainly a record

01:10:23.820 that Fauci would be aware of.

01:10:25.640 He said,

01:10:25.960 I think it is,

01:10:26.540 quote,

01:10:26.740 quite far-fetched

01:10:27.520 that the Chinese

01:10:28.060 deliberately engineered something

01:10:29.340 so that they could

01:10:29.880 kill themselves.

01:10:30.680 He's making fun of you.

01:10:32.480 He's calling you an idiot.

01:10:33.660 And he's so much smarter

01:10:35.240 than that.

01:10:35.760 You should be too.

01:10:36.800 You should be more like him

01:10:37.720 is the unspoken,

01:10:39.180 unstated rationale there.

01:10:40.840 It is profoundly insulting.

01:10:42.860 And it's also deleterious

01:10:44.320 to his industry.

01:10:46.480 Public health

01:10:47.060 needs public trust.

01:10:48.720 It does not function

01:10:49.520 in the absence

01:10:50.260 of public trust.

01:10:51.860 And he's done

01:10:52.300 a profound disservice

01:10:53.340 to both this country

01:10:54.640 in its efforts

01:10:55.760 to prevent future pandemics

01:10:56.980 and the industry

01:10:58.220 of which he is a part

01:10:59.480 and professes

01:11:00.560 so much faith

01:11:01.980 and fealty to.

01:11:02.540 Can I just be

01:11:04.780 the raging populist

01:11:05.860 for a second

01:11:06.400 and point out

01:11:07.220 that his corruption

01:11:08.800 is so characteristic

01:11:10.240 of the age we live in?

01:11:12.380 Right?

01:11:12.600 So like,

01:11:13.080 many companies

01:11:14.060 will collect awards

01:11:15.840 from environmentalists

01:11:17.140 after they've shipped

01:11:18.700 environmentally hazardous

01:11:20.100 production

01:11:20.560 out of the United States

01:11:21.740 and into China,

01:11:23.020 right?

01:11:23.340 Where the regulations

01:11:24.060 don't exist.

01:11:25.660 So they're still doing

01:11:26.340 the polluting,

01:11:26.940 but they're not doing it here,

01:11:28.200 so they get a big award.

01:11:30.060 And that's,

01:11:30.880 you know,

01:11:31.120 that's kind of greenwashing.

01:11:32.540 of their reputation.

01:11:34.820 What Fauci

01:11:36.120 and others did

01:11:37.020 by funding

01:11:37.860 EcoHealth Alliance,

01:11:39.680 the cutout

01:11:41.080 run by Peter Daszak,

01:11:42.840 was a kind of hazard washing

01:11:44.440 of gain-of-function research.

01:11:47.100 They know

01:11:48.140 that this was dangerous.

01:11:50.060 They know

01:11:50.520 it wasn't allowed

01:11:51.140 to be done

01:11:51.540 in the United States.

01:11:52.900 They were paying attention

01:11:54.160 to the regulations.

01:11:55.600 They're paying attention

01:11:56.340 to the very lack

01:11:57.220 of them in China,

01:11:58.460 which is why

01:11:59.300 it was outsourced

01:12:00.740 to China.

01:12:02.020 Yep.

01:12:02.460 Right?

01:12:02.680 So he's participating

01:12:03.960 in a very characteristic

01:12:06.440 corruption

01:12:07.200 of our elite

01:12:08.700 in this age

01:12:09.880 of outsourcing

01:12:11.060 the dirty work

01:12:11.680 to China

01:12:12.220 in order to profit

01:12:14.060 back at home

01:12:14.880 and then disclaiming

01:12:16.320 all of the disaster

01:12:17.320 that comes with it.

01:12:18.860 So I find it

01:12:21.120 I find it

01:12:22.240 really horrifying.

01:12:23.280 I mean,

01:12:23.420 he is like

01:12:24.740 a figure out

01:12:25.720 of a Dickens novel

01:12:27.160 condemning our age.

01:12:28.880 It is really gross

01:12:31.080 that he is

01:12:31.980 I mean,

01:12:35.120 you know,

01:12:35.740 he's the kind of guy

01:12:36.420 that inspires someone

01:12:36.960 like me to say

01:12:37.400 like,

01:12:37.820 clap them in irons.

01:12:38.940 Like,

01:12:39.340 what are we doing?

01:12:42.120 That we allow ourselves

01:12:43.900 to be ruled

01:12:44.400 by a person

01:12:45.460 like this

01:12:46.640 actually condemns us

01:12:48.600 as a nation.

01:12:49.980 It's really gross.

01:12:51.920 And he has said

01:12:52.680 he gave an interview

01:12:53.780 not long ago

01:12:54.300 where he said

01:12:54.800 I can't think of anything

01:12:55.680 I would do over.

01:12:56.780 I don't think

01:12:57.080 I can't think of anything

01:12:57.960 I would do differently

01:12:58.620 if I had the chance

01:12:59.420 to do it over.

01:13:00.480 And here he says

01:13:01.160 to the Times

01:13:02.000 I sleep great at night.

01:13:04.620 He asked him

01:13:05.200 Walswell said

01:13:05.760 if it were me

01:13:06.480 and I were doing

01:13:07.260 gain of function research

01:13:08.260 in that lab

01:13:08.920 and then this happened

01:13:10.180 and, you know,

01:13:11.260 almost 10 million

01:13:11.820 people died.

01:13:12.860 I think I might

01:13:13.840 have trouble

01:13:14.240 sleeping at night.

01:13:15.300 I sleep fine.

01:13:16.540 Sleep like a baby.

01:13:18.020 Good for you.

01:13:18.740 How about little Mason?

01:13:20.180 How is he sleeping

01:13:21.020 that night

01:13:21.680 that he spent

01:13:22.200 in hysterics

01:13:22.960 because of your

01:13:23.820 useless mask mandate

01:13:25.420 or the rest of us?

01:13:26.500 And then we haven't

01:13:26.880 even touched on

01:13:27.540 the vaccines.

01:13:28.640 He makes admissions

01:13:29.660 about those in here.

01:13:31.280 You know,

01:13:31.460 he's had no problem

01:13:32.100 with the lockdowns

01:13:32.860 which have led

01:13:33.240 to such so many

01:13:34.240 deaths of despair.

01:13:35.580 I sleep great.

01:13:37.100 This guy should be run

01:13:38.280 out of the public square.

01:13:40.140 There are literally

01:13:41.040 instead

01:13:41.720 superhero dolls

01:13:43.440 of him

01:13:43.880 in my old neighborhood

01:13:45.620 on the Upper West Side

01:13:47.160 right next to the superhero

01:13:48.780 AOC's

01:13:50.220 Michelle Obama's

01:13:51.560 and Elizabeth Warren.

01:13:53.320 This is why Trump's

01:13:54.400 going to have it so tough

01:13:55.200 in front of a Manhattan jury.

01:13:57.680 That's who they actually

01:13:59.340 have superhero dolls

01:14:00.620 of those people.

01:14:02.100 OK, we have to laugh

01:14:03.120 or we're going to cry.

01:14:03.940 Speaking of politics,

01:14:05.060 let's turn to

01:14:05.720 presidential politics.

01:14:07.580 Joe Biden announced

01:14:08.820 in like the same kind

01:14:10.440 of video that I would

01:14:11.560 have shot of my

01:14:12.480 little Strudwick

01:14:13.120 running around

01:14:13.660 my backyard in.

01:14:15.040 It's basically somebody

01:14:15.640 took out an iPhone

01:14:16.260 camera and had him say,

01:14:18.520 I'm running for re-election

01:14:19.720 with a couple of

01:14:20.840 dark MAGA shots

01:14:21.980 on Jan 6th.

01:14:24.140 No fanfare.

01:14:25.280 I don't know that he's

01:14:25.940 capable of fanfare.

01:14:27.040 It was all but next

01:14:28.000 to the basement.

01:14:29.000 And now we're getting

01:14:31.220 the absurd pieces

01:14:33.140 about,

01:14:34.000 you know what?

01:14:35.420 You know,

01:14:35.780 he's old,

01:14:36.340 but like a lot of

01:14:38.560 a lot of people

01:14:39.120 are old.

01:14:40.540 A lot of people

01:14:41.560 are old

01:14:42.040 and a lot,

01:14:43.200 a lot of presidents

01:14:44.200 were ill.

01:14:45.760 You know,

01:14:46.000 FDR,

01:14:46.720 he was in a wheelchair.

01:14:48.200 JFK,

01:14:49.100 he had a bad back.

01:14:50.900 I'll go through it

01:14:51.800 with you,

01:14:52.140 but before I get

01:14:52.680 to the written version,

01:14:53.680 let me give you

01:14:54.080 some of the

01:14:54.640 visual version

01:14:57.520 and the auditorial

01:14:58.420 version of people

01:14:59.220 defending just how

01:14:59.980 fit Biden is.

01:15:01.020 Sat 3.

01:15:01.800 But how many

01:15:05.660 30-year-olds

01:15:07.220 could travel

01:15:09.840 to Poland,

01:15:10.980 get on the train?

01:15:12.300 He is

01:15:12.940 younger than I am,

01:15:15.860 so I don't know

01:15:16.540 what the problem is.

01:15:22.100 But I can tell you,

01:15:23.280 having traveled with him

01:15:24.280 a fair amount,

01:15:25.880 sometimes he's hard

01:15:26.740 to keep up with.

01:15:27.520 Come work out

01:15:27.980 with me in the morning.

01:15:29.120 Oh my gosh,

01:15:30.040 he's the President

01:15:30.680 of the United States.

01:15:31.520 You know,

01:15:32.460 he,

01:15:33.180 I can't even

01:15:33.960 keep up with it.

01:15:34.900 What about the

01:15:35.300 respect for elders

01:15:36.200 thing that we talk

01:15:37.620 about?

01:15:37.980 And he has a steady

01:15:39.160 hand when you look

01:15:40.800 at what's out there

01:15:42.080 right now

01:15:42.600 with Donald Trump.

01:15:43.880 I think his schedule

01:15:44.800 reflects an active

01:15:46.220 person,

01:15:47.180 mentally and physically.

01:15:48.540 I don't know

01:15:48.840 what more they're

01:15:49.440 asking for.

01:15:51.740 Okay.

01:15:53.080 So you get a flavor,

01:15:54.860 but I've got to get

01:15:55.580 into this Daily Beast

01:15:56.380 report today.

01:15:57.340 Okay.

01:15:58.020 Daily Beast,

01:15:59.020 David Rothkopf

01:16:00.380 writes,

01:16:01.160 Joe Biden's

01:16:01.860 old.

01:16:02.480 Get over it.

01:16:04.660 I'm going to give you

01:16:05.340 some highlights.

01:16:07.540 Voters need to weigh

01:16:08.080 this issue for themselves.

01:16:09.600 Will these limitations

01:16:10.660 negatively affect his

01:16:11.580 ability to be president?

01:16:13.500 Objectively,

01:16:14.280 Joe Biden was not

01:16:14.960 negatively impacted

01:16:15.720 by his age during his

01:16:16.880 term of office thus far.

01:16:18.540 He's accomplished

01:16:19.120 more in his first

01:16:20.460 couple of years in office

01:16:21.320 than any other

01:16:22.580 president since

01:16:23.340 Lyndon B.

01:16:24.540 Johnson.

01:16:24.880 I know Noah's

01:16:25.900 about to have

01:16:26.380 a heart attack

01:16:27.320 after what I'm

01:16:28.100 about to read.

01:16:29.200 His handling

01:16:29.740 of difficult

01:16:30.560 foreign policy

01:16:31.460 challenges

01:16:32.020 puts him in

01:16:32.980 the first tier

01:16:34.080 of U.S.

01:16:35.240 presidents on that

01:16:35.980 front.

01:16:36.280 First tier,

01:16:36.780 I say,

01:16:37.060 Noah.

01:16:38.020 Did he stumble

01:16:38.940 over his words

01:16:39.820 occasionally?

01:16:40.640 Yes.

01:16:41.380 But he used to do

01:16:42.260 that when he was

01:16:42.780 much younger.

01:16:43.820 George W.

01:16:44.320 Bush did it

01:16:44.660 when he was

01:16:44.980 president,

01:16:45.580 and he was 54

01:16:46.460 when he took

01:16:46.880 office.

01:16:47.260 All people do it.

01:16:48.700 The reality is

01:16:49.540 Joe Biden's age

01:16:50.640 has been an

01:16:52.300 asset so far.

01:16:56.180 Noah,

01:16:56.920 thoughts on his

01:16:57.540 wonderful foreign

01:16:58.660 policy challenges

01:16:59.700 that he handled

01:17:01.000 with a plum

01:17:01.600 thanks to his age?

01:17:03.880 Well,

01:17:04.000 I suppose in Joe

01:17:04.640 Biden's defense,

01:17:05.660 his age is not

01:17:06.840 why he's made

01:17:07.640 horrible foreign 1.00

01:17:09.220 policy decisions

01:17:10.040 all his life.

01:17:11.520 He's really

01:17:12.480 reliable on that

01:17:13.360 front.

01:17:14.060 Engineering the

01:17:14.740 worst humiliation

01:17:15.680 for the United

01:17:16.300 States abroad

01:17:16.880 since the fall

01:17:17.440 of Saigon

01:17:17.920 is quite the

01:17:18.520 feat.

01:17:19.440 And you've

01:17:19.860 got to give

01:17:20.140 him a little

01:17:20.440 bit of credit,

01:17:21.100 at least for

01:17:21.680 that.

01:17:22.640 I read this

01:17:23.180 piece in the

01:17:23.540 New York Times

01:17:23.980 the other day

01:17:24.540 in which the

01:17:25.920 reporter went

01:17:27.080 to the old

01:17:27.780 folks home

01:17:28.220 and surveyed

01:17:28.880 octogenarians

01:17:29.580 and nonagenarians

01:17:30.420 who all vote

01:17:30.940 Democratic,

01:17:31.540 and they were

01:17:31.960 just fine

01:17:32.660 with Joe

01:17:33.360 Biden's age.

01:17:34.300 To give you

01:17:34.840 some idea

01:17:35.400 of the level

01:17:37.100 of comfort

01:17:37.600 that his

01:17:38.400 base has

01:17:39.000 with his

01:17:40.060 age,

01:17:40.460 which,

01:17:40.680 by the way,

01:17:41.000 according to

01:17:41.440 polls,

01:17:42.120 according to

01:17:42.640 51% of

01:17:43.260 Democrats in

01:17:43.760 the NBC

01:17:44.060 News poll over

01:17:44.660 the weekend,

01:17:45.480 they're not

01:17:46.480 happy with him

01:17:47.120 running again.

01:17:48.060 They are not

01:17:48.680 satisfied with it.

01:17:49.540 They have to

01:17:50.120 retroactively

01:17:50.800 condition you

01:17:51.560 into believing

01:17:52.080 that the

01:17:52.420 Democratic base

01:17:53.200 is just peachy

01:17:54.520 with his age.

01:17:55.700 The fact of the

01:17:56.160 matter is,

01:17:56.640 they're not.

01:17:57.100 They're willing

01:17:57.340 to tell anybody

01:17:58.100 willing to listen

01:17:58.800 that they're not.

01:17:59.880 And with regard

01:18:00.240 to Joe Biden's

01:18:00.840 supposed accomplishments,

01:18:01.900 that announcement

01:18:02.440 video should send

01:18:03.420 shivers down your

01:18:04.180 spine.

01:18:04.880 His accomplishments

01:18:05.480 were absent

01:18:06.200 from that video.

01:18:07.520 He's talked in a lot

01:18:08.220 of platitudes,

01:18:09.460 he discussed freedom,

01:18:10.880 and he really

01:18:12.180 brazenly

01:18:13.660 mischaracterized

01:18:14.520 Republican

01:18:15.040 legislative efforts.

01:18:16.480 But what was

01:18:17.620 striking to me

01:18:18.180 about that video

01:18:18.820 was mostly

01:18:19.500 visuals.

01:18:20.400 What did we see?

01:18:21.420 We saw a couple

01:18:22.540 of minutes of

01:18:23.060 Joe Biden.

01:18:24.020 We saw more

01:18:24.660 Kamala Harris

01:18:25.460 than we've seen

01:18:26.080 in public in a

01:18:26.780 year.

01:18:27.440 We saw Barack

01:18:28.140 Obama.

01:18:28.900 We saw the

01:18:29.820 late John Lewis.

01:18:31.960 We saw Reverend

01:18:32.660 Al Sharpton.

01:18:34.420 Who are they

01:18:34.860 trying to turn

01:18:35.420 out?

01:18:35.620 This is a base

01:18:36.300 motivating election.

01:18:37.460 They're trying to

01:18:37.960 turn out the

01:18:38.400 minority vote.

01:18:39.460 It is not a

01:18:40.220 referendum on this

01:18:41.340 president's

01:18:41.780 accomplishments because

01:18:42.940 that doesn't

01:18:43.440 animate the

01:18:43.940 Democratic base.

01:18:44.820 What animates

01:18:45.660 the Democratic

01:18:46.060 base is the

01:18:46.740 notion of

01:18:47.620 Donald Trump,

01:18:48.280 the specter of

01:18:48.900 Donald Trump,

01:18:49.640 and the idea

01:18:50.320 that the transitive 0.58

01:18:51.700 property of

01:18:52.300 Donald Trump

01:18:52.840 in January 6th

01:18:53.740 applies to all

01:18:54.500 other Republicans

01:18:55.160 from Marjorie

01:18:55.780 Taylor Greene

01:18:56.340 to Ron DeSantis.

01:18:57.960 That's their

01:18:58.540 strategy.

01:18:59.100 It is laid

01:18:59.600 bare.

01:19:00.540 And Democrats

01:19:00.920 are attempting

01:19:01.340 to whitewash

01:19:02.080 this guy's

01:19:02.800 record and the

01:19:03.340 notion that

01:19:04.400 Joe Biden

01:19:05.320 himself,

01:19:06.580 that voters

01:19:07.300 will render

01:19:07.660 an affirmative

01:19:08.140 verdict on Joe

01:19:08.860 Biden himself

01:19:09.420 rather than a

01:19:10.060 negative one on

01:19:10.700 his opponents,

01:19:11.700 is betrayed by

01:19:12.500 how this campaign

01:19:13.420 that they're

01:19:13.760 displaying fealty to

01:19:14.800 was operating.

01:19:16.140 Yeah, right.

01:19:16.920 The ad started,

01:19:18.120 not ad, but it

01:19:18.940 kind of was,

01:19:19.740 announced and

01:19:20.180 started by talking

01:19:21.140 about these

01:19:21.700 ultra-maga 1.00

01:19:23.520 Republicans.

01:19:24.220 He didn't show

01:19:24.600 Trump, but he's

01:19:25.240 clearly just

01:19:25.640 banning books.

01:19:26.620 They're banning

01:19:27.140 books, Megan.

01:19:28.240 Oh my God, we

01:19:28.800 actually went.

01:19:29.640 Where?

01:19:29.680 There was a

01:19:29.940 Twitter thread.

01:19:30.760 You know what

01:19:31.500 the books are?

01:19:32.500 The books that get

01:19:33.280 pulled from the

01:19:33.880 school libraries,

01:19:34.580 because this is a

01:19:35.020 cause near and dear

01:19:35.580 to my own heart as

01:19:36.200 well, literally the

01:19:37.640 books that I've seen

01:19:38.320 pulled show

01:19:39.160 pedophilia, an adult

01:19:41.220 male, a cartoon figure

01:19:42.440 of an adult male,

01:19:43.120 getting a blowjob 0.95

01:19:44.740 from an underage

01:19:46.100 boy.

01:19:47.280 Yes, I want that

01:19:48.200 book banned, and

01:19:49.100 yes, I will defend

01:19:50.020 the ban of that

01:19:50.520 book in the school

01:19:51.240 library.

01:19:51.740 But it's not banned.

01:19:52.000 It's simply off the

01:19:52.880 curriculum.

01:19:53.520 This is a category

01:19:54.160 distinction that they

01:19:55.300 declined to make,

01:19:56.640 because they want you

01:19:57.280 to be mad.

01:19:58.940 I think most Americans

01:19:59.680 would say, yeah, pull

01:20:00.280 that the hell out of

01:20:00.820 K through 12.

01:20:01.540 You want to get that

01:20:02.180 smut, get it on your 1.00

01:20:02.920 own.

01:20:03.040 That's what Amazon's

01:20:03.640 for.

01:20:04.280 Here I go on.

01:20:06.180 Losing to MBD.

01:20:07.140 It's just too good to

01:20:08.040 skip over.

01:20:09.540 In the Obama White

01:20:10.500 House, they were

01:20:10.900 concerned about the

01:20:11.560 dangers associated

01:20:12.360 with his

01:20:13.120 smoking.

01:20:14.020 Ronald Reagan was

01:20:14.820 weakened by the

01:20:15.780 assassination attempt

01:20:16.940 on him.

01:20:18.520 Richard Nixon drank

01:20:19.680 to excess at times

01:20:20.720 and took narcotics

01:20:21.520 to sleep, a bad

01:20:22.700 combination.

01:20:23.740 Lyndon Johnson,

01:20:24.580 chain smoker, had

01:20:25.340 his first heart

01:20:25.820 attack when he was

01:20:26.380 47, went on to

01:20:27.580 have five such

01:20:28.160 cardiac incidents.

01:20:29.420 JFK, whose

01:20:30.060 assassination proved

01:20:31.160 that age and

01:20:32.160 actuarial tables are

01:20:33.500 not always useful

01:20:34.400 ways to predict the

01:20:36.040 longevity of

01:20:36.800 precedence.

01:20:37.460 Oh, my God.

01:20:38.080 We're going there.

01:20:39.780 We're going there.

01:20:41.980 Also concealed his

01:20:43.640 own serious illness.

01:20:44.780 A sickly child who

01:20:46.220 was initially denied

01:20:46.980 entry into the military

01:20:47.760 because of his back

01:20:48.480 problems.

01:20:49.440 Back surgeries plagued

01:20:50.780 him later in life while

01:20:51.540 he was still in the

01:20:52.100 Senate.

01:20:52.540 It was on from there.

01:20:53.160 Franklin D.

01:20:53.640 Roosevelt,

01:20:53.940 Roosevelt paralysis

01:20:54.960 from polio when he

01:20:56.620 was only 39 years old.

01:20:58.480 Biden, unlike Roosevelt

01:20:59.660 or Eisenhower or

01:21:00.440 Kennedy or Trump,

01:21:01.260 has not hidden his

01:21:02.860 health from the

01:21:03.780 public.

01:21:04.240 he hasn't.

01:21:06.200 He has regularly been

01:21:07.540 pronounced fit throughout

01:21:08.920 his term of office.

01:21:10.120 This is so dishonest, but

01:21:11.460 we all know what was

01:21:12.320 missing from his last

01:21:13.120 presidential health

01:21:13.820 assessment, any

01:21:15.080 cognitive assessment

01:21:16.560 whatsoever, which is

01:21:18.100 what people are worried

01:21:19.100 about.

01:21:21.300 Yeah, and it's also

01:21:22.560 clear that he has had

01:21:24.260 good days and bad

01:21:25.460 days, and it's the

01:21:27.120 sort of thing you see

01:21:27.880 in your own, you

01:21:28.660 know, your parents or

01:21:29.520 your grandparents as

01:21:31.100 they decline, right?

01:21:32.200 Like, you know, I

01:21:33.260 remember, and it's a

01:21:34.520 dangerous quality in a

01:21:35.600 president, right?

01:21:36.360 Like, I mean, if you

01:21:37.560 have bad days where,

01:21:39.620 you know, a little bit

01:21:40.540 of dementia is sneaking

01:21:41.680 into your thinking, I

01:21:43.500 mean, like, my own

01:21:44.840 grandmother, I remember

01:21:45.580 felt, fell and was

01:21:48.240 picked up by an aid

01:21:50.220 worker in 1997 and was

01:21:52.040 asked, who's the

01:21:52.860 president of the United

01:21:53.500 States?

01:21:53.920 And she answered

01:21:54.780 confidently, Richard

01:21:55.640 Nixon, and then

01:21:57.440 thought about it again

01:21:58.200 and said, Gerald

01:21:58.740 Ford.

01:21:59.760 And, you know,

01:22:00.640 that's, that is

01:22:02.800 something that happens

01:22:03.440 when you're in your

01:22:04.360 80s, or, and time

01:22:07.240 is ticking away at

01:22:08.680 you, and you're

01:22:10.880 uncertain about your

01:22:11.600 mental state.

01:22:12.220 And it's not

01:22:12.660 something you want in

01:22:13.500 a president who has

01:22:14.800 to deal with the fact

01:22:15.700 that the largest

01:22:16.920 nuclear power on

01:22:18.720 Earth is currently in

01:22:19.900 a hot war in which

01:22:21.540 we are supplying the

01:22:23.340 other side.

01:22:24.340 Like, you can't have

01:22:25.360 him being confused

01:22:26.400 about what time and

01:22:28.600 space he's really in.

01:22:29.600 And I, I'm afraid

01:22:31.720 we're going to see a

01:22:33.280 serious incident at

01:22:34.280 some point in the

01:22:35.140 next two years.

01:22:35.600 I mean, it's, it's

01:22:36.040 almost very likely, uh,

01:22:38.100 that we're going to

01:22:38.700 see it.

01:22:39.420 And the, and Noah's

01:22:41.460 right.

01:22:41.800 I mean, we basically

01:22:43.060 poll Americans and as

01:22:45.780 a whole, do you want

01:22:46.980 Joe Biden to run again

01:22:48.020 for 2024?

01:22:48.740 And roughly 70% of the

01:22:50.340 country says no.

01:22:51.580 And yet he's, he is

01:22:53.740 likely to be the

01:22:54.300 nominee.

01:22:54.760 The DNC is clearing

01:22:55.900 the way, trying to

01:22:57.440 make sure that no

01:22:58.200 challengers come.

01:22:59.060 Come up and, and

01:23:00.900 damage him by saying

01:23:01.940 we're not going to

01:23:02.440 have any debates.

01:23:03.540 We already know that

01:23:04.620 we don't care what

01:23:05.760 RFK junior is polling.

01:23:07.540 We don't care about

01:23:08.640 the commercials that

01:23:09.580 Gavin Newsom is running

01:23:10.620 in certain parts of

01:23:11.640 the country.

01:23:12.220 We're not having

01:23:12.960 debates.

01:23:13.460 We're going to

01:23:13.860 protect this man.

01:23:15.300 And they're

01:23:15.960 protecting him in

01:23:16.900 part because he's

01:23:18.740 running the, they

01:23:19.640 anticipate that Donald

01:23:20.980 Trump will be the

01:23:21.640 other candidate.

01:23:22.900 Biden beat him

01:23:23.720 once.

01:23:24.100 And they think the

01:23:25.220 key to beating

01:23:25.680 Donald Trump is

01:23:26.960 running, you know, a

01:23:28.420 man who I've called

01:23:29.400 the last bag of

01:23:30.660 bones labeled FDR

01:23:32.300 coalition, right?

01:23:33.840 I mean, this is a guy

01:23:34.560 who can keep that party

01:23:36.060 together.

01:23:37.020 Midwestern Catholics,

01:23:38.940 suburban moms,

01:23:40.640 Northeastern liberals,

01:23:41.440 and African-Americans.

01:23:43.260 A coalition that

01:23:45.200 could come rapidly

01:23:46.640 apart as our

01:23:48.000 politics continue to

01:23:49.060 realign and change.

01:23:50.860 And, you know, we'll

01:23:53.240 see how long we can

01:23:53.980 keep it up.

01:23:55.060 But, I mean, it was a

01:23:57.160 close run thing the

01:23:57.860 first time.

01:23:58.880 I don't know how

01:23:59.500 they're going to do it

01:24:00.020 a second time.

01:24:01.360 You say the DNC is

01:24:02.580 now given the order,

01:24:03.420 you know, we got to

01:24:03.920 get behind him.

01:24:04.600 And by DNC, I assume

01:24:05.680 that's some sort of

01:24:06.300 euphemism for the

01:24:07.500 ladies of the view,

01:24:08.660 because this is the

01:24:10.520 messaging on their

01:24:12.060 program today.

01:24:13.260 Democrats, I don't

01:24:17.060 know why you're

01:24:18.320 talking about, you

01:24:19.220 know, who's the person

01:24:20.720 to do the job is doing

01:24:22.420 the job.

01:24:23.320 Yeah.

01:24:23.540 You get behind him,

01:24:25.040 and we won't have a

01:24:25.960 problem.

01:24:26.620 The minute you start

01:24:27.720 making inroads, maybe

01:24:29.440 this person, maybe this

01:24:30.620 person, we're done for.

01:24:32.940 So make a decision.

01:24:34.420 Make a decision.

01:24:35.400 Also, he needs another

01:24:36.780 four years to finish the

01:24:38.200 job.

01:24:38.500 You can't fight fascism

01:24:39.820 in four years, only.

01:24:40.880 You need eight years

01:24:42.120 for that.

01:24:43.260 Oh, that's what?

01:24:44.140 Who knew that was?

01:24:44.940 Yes, you can.

01:24:46.480 How long was

01:24:47.160 World War II?

01:24:48.320 We literally fought

01:24:49.460 fascism in three years.

01:24:54.460 It's amazing.

01:24:55.620 It's so fun.

01:24:56.540 I see why that show

01:24:57.360 actually is still on the

01:24:58.100 air.

01:24:58.280 It's fun.

01:24:59.760 It's a comedy.

01:25:00.820 If you take it in as a

01:25:01.640 comedy, it gets much

01:25:02.800 better.

01:25:03.100 Yeah, that's absurdist.

01:25:06.220 Yeah.

01:25:06.580 It would serve, you know,

01:25:08.160 it would serve Democratic

01:25:09.320 partisans to explore perhaps

01:25:10.740 why there is so much

01:25:12.540 dissatisfaction with Joe

01:25:14.280 Biden's performance among

01:25:16.260 Democrats.

01:25:17.320 I was just surveying the

01:25:18.580 results of this Harvard

01:25:20.980 poll of young voters,

01:25:22.740 1825, who are basket

01:25:25.700 cases.

01:25:26.340 They are beset by anxiety,

01:25:27.660 which is understandable

01:25:29.080 given the messages that

01:25:30.180 they're bombarded with,

01:25:31.040 which are anxiety inducing.

01:25:32.540 If you took it all to

01:25:33.240 heart, it would be

01:25:34.260 irrational not to be

01:25:35.160 apprehensive.

01:25:36.120 But they're very down on

01:25:37.180 Joe Biden's performance,

01:25:38.180 even though they have a

01:25:39.620 lot of faith in their own

01:25:40.460 economic prospects, not

01:25:41.980 just in the future, but

01:25:42.800 today.

01:25:43.740 They're not down on their

01:25:45.660 futures.

01:25:46.480 They're down on him.

01:25:48.340 They don't think he's

01:25:49.140 governed well.

01:25:50.520 They don't think he's

01:25:51.080 advanced or stewarded

01:25:52.240 their interests.

01:25:53.640 And the views form that

01:25:55.100 were the as we just

01:25:57.720 heard it, the framing of

01:25:58.480 the issue is not an

01:25:59.840 affirmative statement of

01:26:00.740 support for Joe Biden.

01:26:02.100 It is that Joe Biden

01:26:02.880 just represents he is a

01:26:04.100 formless, nameless,

01:26:05.120 shapeless bulwark against

01:26:06.820 Republicans.

01:26:08.400 I'm sorry, that's

01:26:09.440 begrudging support and

01:26:10.500 begrudging support is

01:26:11.600 soft support.

01:26:12.600 Democrats should be

01:26:13.160 worried about that.

01:26:15.340 They do have Kamala

01:26:16.560 Harris to make

01:26:17.120 themselves feel better.

01:26:19.600 You've got to see, you

01:26:20.520 know, every once in a

01:26:21.080 while she comes out with

01:26:21.700 one of these just

01:26:22.180 totally absurd sound

01:26:23.440 bites that says

01:26:24.120 absolutely nothing, but

01:26:25.620 says it over and over

01:26:26.420 again in the same

01:26:27.740 work.

01:26:28.200 I'm going to show it to

01:26:28.960 you right after this

01:26:29.460 quick, quick break.

01:26:30.060 Do not go away.

01:26:34.160 So they have Kamala

01:26:35.620 Harris to fall back on

01:26:36.600 guys.

01:26:37.360 Fear not.

01:26:38.160 Here she was at

01:26:38.900 Howard University.

01:26:40.520 All right.

01:26:40.760 Now she's actually

01:26:42.880 giving a speech,

01:26:43.980 believe it or not, on

01:26:44.740 reproductive rights. 0.98

01:26:47.100 Listen.

01:26:47.240 So I think it's very

01:26:51.260 important, as you have

01:26:53.220 heard from so many

01:26:54.540 incredible leaders, for

01:26:57.180 us at every moment in

01:26:58.580 time, and certainly

01:26:59.540 this one, to see the

01:27:01.940 moment in time in which

01:27:04.420 we exist and are present

01:27:06.060 and to be able to

01:27:08.380 contextualize it, to

01:27:10.380 understand where we

01:27:11.520 exist in the history and

01:27:14.580 in the moment as it

01:27:15.800 relates not only to the

01:27:16.840 past, but the

01:27:17.600 future.

01:27:18.380 Oh, my God.

01:27:19.060 Oh, my God.

01:27:20.460 Oh, my God.

01:27:24.940 Noah, you're good with

01:27:25.960 the words.

01:27:26.620 This is your thing, your

01:27:27.480 fancy words.

01:27:28.520 You should, you must be

01:27:29.700 inspired by that.

01:27:31.260 I mean, there's a thing

01:27:32.400 that good litigators can

01:27:33.560 do where, as you know,

01:27:35.280 Megan, where they can say

01:27:36.200 absolutely nothing, but

01:27:37.900 say it in a way that

01:27:39.480 makes you think something

01:27:40.860 very profound was

01:27:42.160 related.

01:27:43.400 She's the opposite.

01:27:45.080 She says a lot of

01:27:46.000 nothing, and you just

01:27:47.380 glaze over with the

01:27:48.680 understanding that what

01:27:49.640 you're hearing is

01:27:50.640 pablum, and that was

01:27:52.660 pablum.

01:27:53.480 This is one of the

01:27:53.980 reasons why she was 0.83

01:27:54.760 such an ineffective

01:27:55.700 legislator, why she 1.00

01:27:57.500 would make accusations

01:27:59.460 and insinuations when

01:28:00.760 she was in the Senate

01:28:01.440 that would go

01:28:01.840 absolutely nowhere, would

01:28:03.040 be dazzled Democrats,

01:28:04.960 like the notion here

01:28:05.720 that, you know, Brett

01:28:06.560 Kavanaugh took this crazy

01:28:07.660 meeting with Trump's

01:28:08.560 lawyers, whatever

01:28:09.080 happened to that.

01:28:09.720 Nothing, absolutely

01:28:10.740 nothing ever happened to

01:28:11.960 that, it let you

01:28:12.540 down.

01:28:13.520 She's a giant letdown. 1.00

01:28:15.400 Very consistent in her

01:28:16.280 part, though.

01:28:17.240 There's nothing of

01:28:18.540 substance there, I

01:28:19.180 think we need to hear

01:28:20.120 it again.

01:28:20.600 Let's hear it again, just

01:28:21.780 to enjoy it one more

01:28:22.500 time.

01:28:24.020 So, I think it's very

01:28:26.580 important, as you have

01:28:28.500 heard from so many

01:28:29.820 incredible leaders, for

01:28:32.460 us at every moment in

01:28:33.860 time, and certainly this

01:28:35.200 one, to see the moment

01:28:37.640 in time in which we

01:28:39.960 exist in our present, and

01:28:42.700 to be able to

01:28:43.640 contextualize it, to

01:28:45.640 understand where we

01:28:46.820 exist in the history

01:28:48.960 and in the moment as

01:28:50.960 it relates not only to

01:28:51.960 the past, but the

01:28:52.900 future.

01:28:53.760 Oh, my God.

01:28:55.520 It doesn't improve.

01:28:58.660 I gave it another shot.

01:29:00.900 What was the quote from

01:29:02.000 Billy Madison?

01:29:02.960 At no point in your

01:29:04.100 rambling, incoherent

01:29:05.340 response, were you ever

01:29:06.900 even close to anything

01:29:08.380 that could be considered

01:29:09.460 a rational thought?

01:29:11.280 Everyone in this room

01:29:12.340 is now dumber for

01:29:13.520 having listened to it.

01:29:14.900 I award you no points,

01:29:16.600 and may God have mercy

01:29:17.400 on your soul.

01:29:19.020 That is astonishing

01:29:21.960 and utterly vacuous.

01:29:25.640 And it actually, it does

01:29:26.740 speak, it does speak to

01:29:29.080 actually something bigger

01:29:29.900 that is happening, right?

01:29:31.280 There's the lack of Joe

01:29:32.900 Biden's accomplishments as

01:29:34.280 president.

01:29:34.640 There's the lack of

01:29:36.760 Kamala Harris's coherence

01:29:38.540 as a speaker or a human

01:29:39.820 being, a rational

01:29:42.220 creature.

01:29:44.360 And it's part of the

01:29:45.620 reason why the

01:29:47.040 announcement of Joe

01:29:48.600 Biden's re-election was

01:29:49.660 the way it was.

01:29:50.420 It was just, we are a

01:29:52.140 stand-in for liberal

01:29:54.320 values.

01:29:55.540 That's it, right?

01:29:56.920 I'm not saying we've

01:29:57.720 accomplished much, but

01:29:59.300 we're for abortion. 0.56

01:30:00.600 We're against the kind of

01:30:01.960 cultural stuff that the

01:30:02.960 Republicans are doing in

01:30:04.060 schools and not, you

01:30:05.560 know, on, on trans issues

01:30:08.180 or for diversity.

01:30:09.740 And it's basically a

01:30:11.120 giant bet.

01:30:12.300 And it's, it actually is

01:30:13.700 going to be a gut check

01:30:14.580 for the right going into

01:30:15.800 2024.

01:30:19.380 Democrats are betting

01:30:20.420 that 2024 is a liberal

01:30:23.440 values voters election.

01:30:25.580 And that this is

01:30:26.620 fundamentally a center-left

01:30:28.040 country in the way that

01:30:29.800 20 years ago, all the

01:30:31.600 pundits said this in

01:30:33.600 20, 2004, this was a

01:30:35.340 values voters election

01:30:36.300 and America is a center

01:30:37.500 right country.

01:30:38.580 That's their bet.

01:30:39.580 It is a huge bet.

01:30:41.220 A lot follows from it.

01:30:43.060 And it's a gut check for

01:30:44.000 Republicans is, can you

01:30:45.300 offer something, a

01:30:46.860 governing vision that is

01:30:48.400 more compelling than

01:30:50.100 just, we're standing by

01:30:51.880 center-left liberal

01:30:53.280 values.

01:30:53.720 We're standing by the

01:30:55.320 Fauci statues, the

01:30:57.400 Rochelle Walensky

01:30:58.540 commemorative name

01:31:00.360 plaques and the other

01:31:02.240 tchotchkes that you get 1.00

01:31:03.820 on the Upper West

01:31:04.420 side.

01:31:05.200 Can you offer something

01:31:06.140 more compelling than

01:31:06.760 that?

01:31:07.080 We'll see.

01:31:08.100 Yeah, we'll see.

01:31:09.320 That's right.

01:31:10.180 I've got to ask you

01:31:11.520 about, in particular,

01:31:12.640 Noah, given the New

01:31:13.500 Puritans, about

01:31:14.200 Steven Spielberg.

01:31:15.940 He gave, he made a

01:31:17.760 comment about

01:31:18.960 regretting his

01:31:21.060 wokeification of E.T.

01:31:23.540 And it was a good

01:31:24.460 comment.

01:31:25.220 So I didn't even know

01:31:26.380 he did this, but

01:31:27.580 apparently, he was at

01:31:28.660 the Time 100, and

01:31:29.960 apparently he took

01:31:30.880 E.T., I don't know

01:31:32.440 what it was, the

01:31:32.800 original, like, it was

01:31:33.580 late 70s, early 80s,

01:31:34.840 I can't remember the

01:31:35.400 original pub date of

01:31:36.780 82, and said, I never

01:31:40.560 should have edited it

01:31:41.620 because he edited out

01:31:42.740 guns several years

01:31:44.660 back.

01:31:45.620 The kids were holding,

01:31:46.940 or these adults were

01:31:47.960 coming after kids.

01:31:48.720 You can see on the

01:31:50.060 screen here on YouTube,

01:31:50.840 we've got the 2002

01:31:51.660 version and the 1982

01:31:52.940 version, and the

01:31:54.260 adults had guns in the

01:31:56.200 actual version, and he

01:31:57.400 replaced them with

01:31:58.360 walkie-talkies

01:31:59.480 20 years later, and

01:32:02.840 he said, no film

01:32:03.820 should be revised

01:32:04.880 based on the lenses

01:32:06.060 we now use, either

01:32:08.380 voluntarily or because

01:32:11.100 you're being forced.

01:32:12.460 He said, I never

01:32:13.420 should have messed

01:32:14.060 with the archives of

01:32:15.100 my own work, and I

01:32:16.040 don't recommend that

01:32:17.120 anyone else do that.

01:32:18.340 I really regret having

01:32:20.220 that out there.

01:32:21.440 So this seems to me

01:32:22.660 like a big plus to come

01:32:24.640 from a true Hollywood

01:32:26.460 legend in the wake of

01:32:28.880 what's happening with

01:32:29.460 books in particular and

01:32:30.760 films, too.

01:32:31.500 Peter Pan, that just got

01:32:32.960 whitewashed.

01:32:33.960 Now we have the lost

01:32:34.940 girls and boys instead of

01:32:36.760 boys and so on.

01:32:38.780 Yeah, very good for him,

01:32:40.300 albeit belatedly, and far

01:32:41.820 too late to avoid the

01:32:42.800 damage.

01:32:43.280 And this sort of dovetails

01:32:44.240 with the Fauci segment,

01:32:45.320 insofar as that edit

01:32:47.540 sprung from a perception

01:32:50.080 of the public that's

01:32:52.300 contemptuous of them, that

01:32:54.120 they perceive you to be

01:32:55.040 so easily manipulated by

01:32:56.760 your external stimuli that

01:32:58.900 if you see a gun, you'll

01:32:59.980 go out there and you'll

01:33:00.640 shoot people. 0.85

01:33:01.400 And it's a really

01:33:01.900 condescending view.

01:33:03.020 And insofar as it relates

01:33:04.220 to puritanical thought, it

01:33:05.940 is that art for art's

01:33:07.940 sake is a contemptuous

01:33:09.260 frivolity that distracts

01:33:12.080 from our higher spiritual

01:33:13.580 goals, that art generally

01:33:15.620 should reflect the here

01:33:16.920 and now, should impart

01:33:18.000 our values, should be of

01:33:19.580 instrumental utility,

01:33:21.540 because something that

01:33:22.560 just entertains for the

01:33:24.460 sake of entertainment

01:33:25.300 distracts you from the

01:33:27.400 work of our time, the

01:33:28.720 great work of our time

01:33:29.560 in the progressive

01:33:30.080 imagination, it is the

01:33:31.240 advancement of the

01:33:31.840 progressive project.

01:33:33.060 In the puritanical mind,

01:33:34.240 it was the development of

01:33:35.500 a new Zion on Earth. 0.97

01:33:37.720 But there are similar

01:33:38.780 projects insofar as they

01:33:40.500 resent you, resent your

01:33:42.460 outlook, resent your

01:33:43.560 tastes, and don't think

01:33:45.100 very highly of you, such

01:33:46.240 to the point that they

01:33:46.800 would deny you something

01:33:48.240 as trite as just

01:33:50.260 entertainment.

01:33:51.560 And this clip is so

01:33:54.540 benign, right?

01:33:55.940 M.A.D., it's like, it's

01:33:57.560 not like a grown-up trying

01:33:59.260 to hurt a child with a

01:34:00.140 gun.

01:34:00.740 People are flying

01:34:01.540 overhead, they're

01:34:02.200 extraterrestrials, and

01:34:03.240 there's one guy with a

01:34:04.020 long gun, and they change

01:34:05.580 it to a walkie-talkie.

01:34:06.580 I mean, talk about a low

01:34:07.680 bar for, oh, God, can't

01:34:09.980 have that out there.

01:34:10.680 Right, well, the bar is

01:34:13.440 ever lowered, right?

01:34:14.700 So when the sensitivity

01:34:17.220 readers are rewriting Roald

01:34:19.820 Dahl's books, right, they're

01:34:21.800 taking out lines like, oh,

01:34:23.860 she was fat, right? 1.00

01:34:25.900 That's it.

01:34:26.420 Like, the description of a

01:34:27.800 character, she was fat. 1.00

01:34:29.300 Because somehow, if you say a

01:34:31.820 fictional character is fat,

01:34:33.700 you're going to inspire fat

01:34:35.900 phobia, and the ignorant

01:34:38.320 mass hordes of third 0.74

01:34:41.940 graders in Kansas are going

01:34:43.780 to begin a giant purge of

01:34:46.020 the overweight, or, you

01:34:47.100 know, like, I don't know

01:34:48.100 what they're thinking.

01:34:49.320 But, you know, it's exactly

01:34:51.160 what Noah said.

01:34:54.620 It is a kind of conspiracy

01:34:56.000 theory about Americans, that

01:34:59.800 we are like these suggestible

01:35:01.540 morons on the edge of

01:35:04.620 terrible violence.

01:35:06.180 And if you just say the

01:35:08.140 wrong thing, we're going to

01:35:10.780 tip over into, you know, a

01:35:13.740 pogrom against whoever it

01:35:15.360 is, against kids who are

01:35:17.900 chasing aliens, against the

01:35:19.440 fat, you know, against, you 0.90

01:35:23.320 know, whoever, you know,

01:35:26.060 James Bond was shooting.

01:35:27.120 I mean, the sensitivity

01:35:27.800 readers are now rewriting the

01:35:29.600 Bond books.

01:35:30.260 It is a suggestion that, like,

01:35:37.880 we ourselves, I mean, there's

01:35:40.220 also, like, a make-work aspect

01:35:41.640 to this, right?

01:35:42.420 Like, in George Orwell's

01:35:43.820 1984, the main character,

01:35:46.120 Winston Smith, his employment

01:35:48.040 is in rewriting news articles

01:35:49.940 to fit with the political line

01:35:52.620 of the day.

01:35:53.800 And he talks about, like, he

01:35:55.300 literally talks about, like, the

01:35:56.180 spirit of the work and, like,

01:35:57.420 getting caught up in it and

01:35:58.800 feeling a kind of esprit de

01:36:00.660 corps when they had to do a

01:36:01.940 big project, you know, and

01:36:03.260 the war changes from East

01:36:05.160 Asia to Eurasia.

01:36:06.700 And they have to rewrite

01:36:07.780 basically all the news.

01:36:09.340 It predicted everything.

01:36:10.640 Sorry, MBD, we're running out

01:36:11.620 of time, but it's always

01:36:13.260 worth a 1984 reference.

01:36:15.800 1984 was the predictor of

01:36:17.320 all.

01:36:18.180 MBD, Noah, thank you both so

01:36:19.560 much for coming on.

01:36:20.300 Check out National Review and

01:36:21.400 the Editor's Podcast if you

01:36:22.480 want more of these guys.

01:36:23.620 Love the convo.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - April 26, 2023

Fox Goes to War with Tucker Carlson, and Fauci Pressed on His Lies, with Michael Brendan Dougherty and Noah Rothman ｜ Ep. 537

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