The Megyn Kelly Show - Free Speech Suppression, Woke Cultural Drift, and Becoming a Parent, with Dave Rubin

00:00:00.580 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.620 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. I am so glad today to be back with you.

00:00:16.820 I don't have my glasses on. I still have very, very, very bloodshot eyes from my LASIK, which was just a couple of days ago.

00:00:24.440 So, um, my eyes feel kind of strange, but anyway, if they start to bother me with the lights and all that, I've got my glasses and they say in like two weeks, I'm going to be a hundred percent.

00:00:34.220 Anyway, I'm also thrilled to welcome back my good friend, Dave Rubin, who I am going to help launch his book a little bit later this month.

00:00:42.140 More on that later. Dave's a man of many talents. As you know, he has a hugely popular podcast and YouTube channel.

00:00:47.360 He's an entrepreneur with his locals platform thriving. He's a husband. And as he announced last month, he's about to be a dad times two.

00:00:56.760 He's also a bestselling author and his new book is called Don't Burn This Country follows up on Don't Burn This Book.

00:01:04.320 Don't Burn This Country. The subheading is surviving and thriving in our woke dystopia. And it's out today.

00:01:11.840 Dave, welcome back. Megan, it's good to see you. How are your eyes? I miss this news that you went under elective surgery to correct your vision.

00:01:25.140 Are you, do you want to do this with, uh, you know, you could put on those crazy shades that the, uh, the elderly people with the glaucoma.

00:01:32.140 I have been wearing these for the past few days right here, Dave Rubin. And actually they're pretty, they're pretty comfortable. I have to say like the, the bright lights are a little bit much post LASIK.

00:01:43.980 I don't know if like you have increased light sensitivity for a couple of days, but, um, my eyes are kind of itchy with the makeup. I don't know. We'll see what I do, but yeah, I decided to take it off, take it all off for you, Dave Rubin. And here I am naked.

00:01:57.420 Megan, you'll appreciate this guys. Could one of you grab my newsman glasses for me? One of the little gimmicks that we do on my show, because I bring the news to people, but I don't consider myself a journalist in any way. I just kind of tell people what I think about the world, but I'm always watching these cable news pro I don't have cable anymore, but I see these clips of these people, the cable news people. You used to be a cable news person.

00:02:17.480 And remember when they're doing something serious, they always do this. They put on their fake glasses and then they read something, you know, Don Lemon, he's always reading something with fake glasses and then he takes it off to not.

00:02:28.320 They're all trying to be Walter Cronkite Cronkite when it was real, you know, 40 years ago. So I have, these are unrelated to vision. They're completely fake, but I have them just in case we, here's what we used to do in the law.

00:02:40.440 So I used to wear, you know, first I wore glasses, then I wore contacts and I got Lisa. So picture these is not sunglasses, but it's like regular glasses. So you're talking to the jury, you're like members of the jury. I am telling you the defendant did not commit this crime. Members of the jury, what I have to say to you is so important. He did not commit this crime. You take off the glasses for effect.

00:03:03.320 And then, then I switched over to contacts. And what I realized is it's so much less effective to go over to the try or effect and be like, if you could just stand by one second, I've got a really important point to make as you try to pull out your daily disposable.

00:03:19.680 There's something very powerful about, if people fit, my God, he can't see, he must read a lot. Thus, he's smart. I have these glasses. Anyway, Megan, it's always great to see you. I'm very happy to be spending book launch day with you.

00:03:32.220 I'm so psyched for you. Congrats on the launch. And look at me like, I'm just looking at the back of the book and the people listen to the people who have blurbed this book. Jordan Peterson. Hello, Dennis Prager, Larry Elder. I know all those three are mentors to you. Yours truly a friend. Ben Shapiro, Glenn Beck, Ayaan Hirsi Ali. I mean, this is like a who's who cast of people I admire, too. So I love this. And a lot of these people are helping you launch the book and interviewing you in various cities.

00:03:59.340 And we'll be going up to not far from where my my nan used to live in West Nyack, New York. She lived in Tappan Z, Tappan, until she died at 101. So I love that area of the country. And I love the people's accents. They remind me of Nana. And we'll have a ton of fun.

00:04:15.080 But there's much to go over. And the book is very, very timely. One thing I wanted to ask you about before we kick it off is in the acknowledgments, you thanked your publishing company and suggest suggested like the not that it was a hard sell, but that it was a risk, you know, to publish this.

00:04:31.020 Is that just because it's because it's anti-woke or was there like a specific push on this? Because obviously you'd have to backdate the pitch by at least a year.

00:04:41.400 Yeah, there were a couple of things going on. You know, my first book, Don't Burn This Book, came out in April of 2020. So it was literally two years ago this week.

00:04:48.480 And obviously that was right at the beginning of COVID, lockdowns, et cetera, et cetera. We had canceled. I had a worldwide tour. I was going to go all over Europe and Canada, Australia and a whole bunch of stuff.

00:04:59.060 We canceled all that. You know, the book, I couldn't do any signings. I couldn't do any events here. You know, the book was supposed to be at Costco and Barnes and Nobles and everywhere else.

00:05:09.100 Everything was closed. The airports were closed. And then the book still managed to do pretty well, which I'm very proud of because it was a really, really weird time.

00:05:16.820 So when I wrote that in the acknowledgments, it was sort of twofold. It was one. Well, you know, this is the woke thing first. Let's do that one first.

00:05:25.300 That to write anything that's non-woke these days, there's a risk because we know what happens at the publishing houses that often the inmates are running the asylum and these junior editors or relatively low level employees, they seem to get veto power over what books can be published and what ideas could be talked about.

00:05:42.180 Now, since I'm writing a very anti-woke book, to say the least, I knew there was a risk there.

00:05:47.660 But I also knew there was a risk in that when I signed on for this book, which was basically right after the first book, because it did do well, we didn't know what the world was going to look like.

00:05:57.700 Like, who knew what the political situation was going to look like? Who knew what sales were going to look like?

00:06:02.340 Who knew if we were ever going to get out of the pandemic or a whole bunch of other stuff?

00:06:06.040 So I'm very appreciative of Penguin for sticking with me throughout this and because it was a risk.

00:06:11.780 It was a risk in that, hey, all right, the first book did OK, but it was a weird time.

00:06:15.820 But who knows? Because as you just said, the publishing process is really slow.

00:06:20.500 You write a book, it doesn't hit the shelves till about a year later.

00:06:24.340 Who knows what the world's going to be like? So, yeah, I'm glad it's out.

00:06:28.120 Look, just publishing a white male author in today's day and age takes guts.

00:06:35.000 Just having a white male author on the roster of those one publishers, good for them. It takes courage.

00:06:42.000 Megan, I did not know you were a biologist, but it is true I am a male.

00:06:47.320 You know what? I'm actually, I know of what I speak because, well, not just the male thing,

00:06:51.020 but literally today in the headlines, Durham University, as part of its decolonization efforts,

00:06:59.360 they are calling on math professors to ask themselves, math, I say, if they are citing work

00:07:05.080 from mostly white or male mathematicians. And if so, to rethink that, because math now can only be

00:07:14.400 taught if it somehow originated. You got to go back and figure out, like, what color was Pythagoras?

00:07:20.660 I mean, I don't know. I think he was Greek. I know at least that much. Okay. He was definitely

00:07:26.920 Greek. Well, look, all of this, it's so profoundly stupid. And it's actually exactly why I wrote this

00:07:36.580 book, because we must stop playing with these bad ideas. Look, you have to give the devil his due.

00:07:42.100 These people, the woke people that inject all of these ridiculous ideas that we should care about,

00:07:46.220 the skin color of mathematicians, or whether they think two plus two is five or seven, or that non-racism

00:07:52.340 is racism and boys are girls, all the stuff that you always talk about so well on your show.

00:07:56.640 You have to give them their credit. They have not stopped. They have marched through our institutions.

00:08:01.400 They have destroyed our ways of communication. They own big tech. Like, they have done incredible,

00:08:06.560 incredible damage. And we have to sit there and really acknowledge that. It doesn't mean you have

00:08:10.400 to like what they've done, but you have to acknowledge that they've done it. But if you,

00:08:14.720 at the end of the day, want to be in math, or you want to be an engineer, or someone involving one of

00:08:20.620 the STEM subjects, you know, a lot of people say, six years ago, when a lot of us were talking about

00:08:25.600 this for the first time, I saw a lot of my friends, bright people, say, oh, you know, this is just going

00:08:30.420 to rampage through the humanities and the liberal arts and that sort of thing. But it'll never infect

00:08:34.740 science. It won't infect math. And I think we've seen even those departments completely collapse

00:08:41.440 under this. And I think, in essence, we need to build new systems of literally everything,

00:08:47.400 literally everything, whether it's new entertainment avenues, get away from Disney and find new places

00:08:52.500 of entertainment, to new educational institutions. I mean, why would you send your kid to a college

00:08:57.940 to learn math where the professor would be talking about race? If you do that, you are a crazy person.

00:09:03.980 Yeah, exactly. And where, you know, I mean, especially you're about to have two children,

00:09:09.040 we'll get to that in a little bit. But I presume they're going to be white children. And I have

00:09:14.520 three white children. And I don't want my two white sons walking into a classroom where it's a problem

00:09:19.260 if they're learning from books that were authored by white men. I mean, if they're being taught,

00:09:25.040 essentially, that that's a problem. Because here's the problem at Durham University and other places.

00:09:29.300 It's not just that there are white men on the syllabus, right? It's like it's that it's not

00:09:35.900 that they dominate the syllabus. It's that they're on there at all. More and more, they want the

00:09:40.260 complete elimination of white men because just the existence of the white male author or the white male

00:09:46.700 teacher or the white male historian on any of these texts or or syllabi. That's a problem. That's like

00:09:53.060 they deem it like some sort of an overcorrection. It's racist. It's sexist. And it's what is it

00:09:59.260 teaching the white men sitting in that class? Well, it's teaching them exactly what they want

00:10:04.860 to teach them, which is actually they should feel guilty for things that had absolutely nothing to do

00:10:10.120 with them. And, you know, even if you were four generations or six generations off the descendants

00:10:15.400 of slave owners, you still are not guilty for their sins. You're guilty for your own actions.

00:10:20.880 That's it. You are not guilty for your parents' sins or anyone else's. The idea that the non-racists

00:10:27.040 are constantly the ones talking about racism, there there really is no one. I mean, people say

00:10:32.560 this to me all the time. Dave, you seem more conservative now or you hang out with these

00:10:36.700 scary Republicans or something like that. And it's like, aren't they racist? People always still ask

00:10:41.860 me this, but aren't they racist? Don't they hate gays? Something like that. And the answer is no,

00:10:47.740 I cannot find the ones that do. That is not to say there are not some racists. That is not to say

00:10:52.720 there are not some homophobes. But please show me someone broadly on the right that is really trying

00:10:59.080 to inject racist ideas into curriculum. Actually, it's now the people on the right that are trying

00:11:05.140 to remove those ideas. And by the way, Megan, you are a living, breathing example of how you fight

00:11:10.200 this thing because you guys had that woke nonsense at your kid's school in New York City. You voiced your

00:11:15.980 opinion about it. And then at some point you said enough is enough. And you took your kids out of

00:11:21.380 that school. And I know it was not easy for you to uproot your family. And it's not easy for anyone

00:11:25.680 to do that, whether you have means or don't. But that's the only way we will beat this thing. We

00:11:30.260 have to start removing ourselves from the systems because they're not stopping. They've given I mean,

00:11:35.020 do you have any evidence anywhere across the board that they're stopping on any of this stuff?

00:11:39.040 No, the only thing we've won on is defund the police. That's it. You know that once the because

00:11:44.420 I was talking to my executive producer about this and my and like we were all having discussion about

00:11:49.280 does it ever reverse? Does it ever go like left, left, left, woke, woke, woke, and then reverse?

00:11:56.300 And we were kind of struggling to find an incident where it has outside of defund the police where

00:12:02.220 people are dying. I mean, that one kind of it's like in the black community in particular stood up and

00:12:08.500 said, our people are dying in our communities. Don't in the words of Jason Riley, please stop

00:12:14.080 helping us. Right. Like, give us back our cops so we can live safely and we can send our kids to

00:12:19.160 school and sit them in the back of cars on the way to McDonald's without having to worry about them

00:12:23.140 getting shot in the head. So these politicians always motivated by their own backsides and saving

00:12:28.800 them saw the light on that. But I don't know. I don't see us, you know, coming back from the brink on

00:12:36.760 the crazy transgender stuff and like like all the weird sexuality that everybody's now touting as

00:12:43.660 a thing. You know, we were talking about this, the pansexual. Oh, that means you have sex with

00:12:47.660 like anybody. Well, that means you're by you already have a letter. And I don't know.

00:12:52.720 I don't know. We're not coming back on the policing part. You know, even though you're right that some

00:12:58.920 of these places, Minnesota, New York City, some of these places that really went bananas with this

00:13:03.400 stuff and then saw their cities burn as a result. And we cover the crime numbers on my show all the

00:13:07.500 time. Murder, every level of crime, petty larceny all the way up. Everything is up in all of these

00:13:12.680 cities, even the ones that have slightly reversed course on that, like New York City reverse course

00:13:16.920 a little bit. Crime is still way higher than it used to be. And there still will be cascading

00:13:22.200 problems with that, because when you demonize the police for years and years, the way that Bill

00:13:27.660 de Blasio did in New York City, a place that you and I both lived and loved for much of our life.

00:13:32.020 We actually lived a couple of blocks away from each other in the best part of New York City,

00:13:35.700 in my humble opinion, the Upper West Side. When you do that for so long, what happens is it's not

00:13:41.020 just that you can reverse it overnight, but now all the new recruits you're getting in,

00:13:46.260 you're going to get a lesser quality of a recruit because they are going to feel they are going to

00:13:50.320 be treated worse by the administration. So I have a bunch of friends that are in the NYPD. I have a

00:13:54.880 bunch of good contacts over there. Even now, although it's slightly better with Eric Adams,

00:13:59.780 although I think he has been a major disappointment and he's still got kids in masks

00:14:03.160 and he's doing all sorts of ridiculous stuff, there's a feeling that it still will get worse

00:14:08.460 because it's not just, oh, we change policy and it's like you pull a lever and then magically

00:14:12.860 everything gets better. So I think the cities, the Democrat-run cities, even if they can slightly

00:14:18.340 reverse some of this, and by the way, I think you're also right, that the gender stuff is so

00:14:22.620 it now ingrained and cult-like. I don't see how they can possibly reverse on that,

00:14:27.180 that the degradation of the system will still continue even if you can slightly take your foot

00:14:33.160 off the gas.

00:14:35.000 By the way, since we're talking about New York City crime, horrific crime took place here this

00:14:39.540 morning. They're still investigating a subway attack. Subway attacks have been a trend, sadly,

00:14:44.500 nothing like this, but there's a manhunt underway in New York right now. Between 13 and 16 so far

00:14:50.720 reported hurt, including five to seven shot in an attack around 8.30 this morning on the

00:14:55.940 Manhattan-bound N train coming in from Brooklyn. They believe that the suspects set off a smoke

00:15:01.160 bomb or bombs, then started shooting inside the subway. The reports say that the gunman was wearing

00:15:07.360 construction garb similar to an MTA worker. This is soundbite, watch this, of people running out of

00:15:12.740 the car. Can we listen to it as well? What you can see for the folks at home is people running,

00:15:17.820 running out of a subway train with smoke billowing around them. Listen.

00:15:28.260 People limping. Now you can start to see some of the shooting victims come off.

00:15:33.240 Lots of postings on Twitter this morning with blood everywhere. We don't know the number of

00:15:40.220 dead, if any. And what we do know is that the suspect remains at large. And they haven't been

00:15:47.680 able to catch this guy. Dave, we're looking at already 30 percent spikes in homicide nationwide

00:15:53.300 right now. Nationwide, 30 percent. Overall crime in New York has gone up almost 60 percent, 59 percent.

00:16:01.520 This is as of 2021. It's gone up even more this year.

00:16:04.440 Yeah. OK. And then March 2022, felony assault up 22 percent. Robbery up 56 percent. Grand larceny up

00:16:11.960 79 percent. Auto theft more than double transit crime. That's this would qualify up 73 percent.

00:16:19.740 And on and on it goes. People are afraid already of the subway. And now we get this. And there's

00:16:25.100 just a general feeling of lawlessness in the air. Megan, do you think it's possible if you tell an

00:16:31.360 entire generation of people that the system is racist, that the entire way of life that they've

00:16:38.700 come to know is fixed against them, that nothing is just in this world, that the police are against

00:16:45.740 them, that the education that they've received is not true education, all of these things. Do you

00:16:50.680 think eventually? Oh, and then you lock them in their houses, say, for two years. You don't let them

00:16:54.700 go to jobs. You keep them on computers, on social media where algorithms are doing unimaginable

00:17:01.480 things to them that we actually I mean, literally unimaginable. We just don't know what the

00:17:05.200 algorithms are actually doing to us if you only communicate that way. Do you think if you take

00:17:09.460 all of that toxic stew pandemic and all of that, that people might start behaving in bad ways on top

00:17:16.080 of the fact that we know we have an overly medicated society already, the amount of people that are on

00:17:20.440 prescription pills. And if you turn on any cable news channel, virtually all of the commercials are

00:17:25.440 about depression. There's always a guy walking down the street with a cloud of depression following

00:17:30.000 him. And then they tell you all the side effects and the side effects are actually far worse than I

00:17:34.000 can imagine the depression to be because it's like a list of 87 other things. We've we've sort of all

00:17:39.960 led ourselves here. And that's when I sort of referenced this earlier, this idea that we're we're in this

00:17:44.940 sort of slow descent to hell. Every day we wake up, there's more bad news. You know, I saw this clip

00:17:50.420 actually just a few minutes before we started the clip that you just showed there of the subway.

00:17:54.840 And again, this is a city that that both of us used to live in that I love New York City or I

00:17:59.200 loved New York City. I can't say I love it anymore. Most of my family at one time in my family's history

00:18:04.860 in the early 1930s to the 50s, we had probably had 100 family members living in New York City. I think I

00:18:11.260 have one distant cousin that still lives there. Everyone has fled. My sister and her husband and three kids

00:18:16.740 were the last ones to flee during covid. There's a reason people do this. If you depress people,

00:18:22.440 if you tell them that the law is not the law, that you're allowed to jump turnstiles, we're not going

00:18:27.380 to arrest people for petty larceny, et cetera, et cetera. Well, it never stops there. It keeps moving

00:18:32.560 and keeps moving. And you may remember when Rudy Giuliani took over in the early 90s. What was the first

00:18:38.120 thing that he did? He started going after the petty crimes, right? When you would get in. I lived in Long

00:18:42.980 Island. So we would take the Midtown Tunnel in when we would go visit my grandparents who lived in

00:18:47.400 Manhattan. And right when you'd get outside the Midtown Tunnel, there were all these homeless guys

00:18:51.380 and they'd have newspapers with wet soap or water, whatever it was. And they try to wash your windows.

00:18:56.560 One of the first things that he did was get rid of those guys. And he did that because it was a sign

00:19:02.040 to the city. It was a sign to the city. Hey, we are going to clean this place up. And then look what he

00:19:06.840 did to Times Square. Now Times Square is sort of had a bit of a reversal. So everything that's going on has

00:19:12.540 led us to a moment like this, where then you see what just happened on the subway. And obviously we

00:19:16.480 need more info. But when I saw it, I was just like, this doesn't surprise me. And that's a very

00:19:22.400 depressing state to be in, actually. I just look at my note from my team. Just recently, a child was

00:19:30.020 punched in the head in Times Square. A child punched in the head in Times Square. We saw a man get shot in

00:19:35.160 Times Square, just a tourist, within the past six or seven months. A woman in Queens was assaulted with a

00:19:40.120 hammer, like personal. We saw a man get chopped up with a with an axe, like a hatchet inside of

00:19:46.860 ATM vestibule. Right. Like these up close and personal, awful crimes, often with homeless people,

00:19:54.300 often not. Right. I don't know anything about today's suspect or his, you know, the details about

00:19:59.920 him. ABC News is reporting that it was a black man. I haven't seen anybody suggest that this is a

00:20:04.700 homeless person. He was dressed again like an MTA worker. So query whether some homeless guy is going

00:20:10.900 to have smoke bombs and a gun and shoot that many people and have that much methodical organization

00:20:16.680 in terms of his skills. We'll find out more. And I'm sure they'll catch this guy. But it is

00:20:22.860 disturbing. And I'll tell you, when we did decide to leave New York City, you know, the crazy woke

00:20:27.920 school things was the reason. But as we were weighing the options, they defunded the police by a billion

00:20:33.360 dollars. And Doug and I said, we're out. That's it. We're out. And as you know, the Upper West Side

00:20:38.440 is known for being a beautiful residential neighborhood under Mayor Bloomberg and Mayor

00:20:44.100 Giuliani. It really transformed into a place that it was all families. I mean, you could push your

00:20:50.480 stroller on the sidewalk, has nice, big, fat sidewalks, which are great. And you'd see just other

00:20:55.620 families everywhere, you know, all all backgrounds, all sorts of diversity and so on, but almost no

00:21:01.020 crime. You just didn't see crime anywhere. And now it's a very different, sad picture, just a

00:21:07.400 microcosm of what's happening elsewhere in the city and elsewhere in the in the country. You know,

00:21:12.500 it's one of the points you're making. And BLM, you know, for all of its it's notable, its laudable

00:21:18.200 name, something you talk about in the book, its actual purpose in case after case has wound up being

00:21:23.880 nefarious. I mean, just today in the news, we talked about this last week, about the six million

00:21:27.800 dollar house they purchased. And in the place you move next, right out in Los Angeles or California,

00:21:33.320 when you got smart, you got out of there. Yeah. So you bought their six point three million dollar

00:21:37.380 house, Patrice colors, who is one of the three founders. And she'd already spent three point one

00:21:43.320 million dollars in three homes for herself. So this woman's rolling in cash. How is that?

00:21:48.000 Maybe somebody would like to know. Maybe maybe it's your donation. Maybe your donation didn't

00:21:52.000 help inner city black people who are concerned about the police. Maybe it just helped Patrice,

00:21:57.000 who not only helped buy the six point three million dollar house out there, but Patrice,

00:22:03.020 I guess, has a lot of people in her life because I read she's got a baby and she's got a she's got

00:22:09.660 there's a father to that baby. But she's also got a wife who lives in Toronto to whom she funneled

00:22:15.460 another six million dollars for that person's nonprofit, for the wife's quote, nonprofit.

00:22:20.900 And that quote, wife bought a ten thousand square foot home in Toronto dedicated as a quote,

00:22:30.680 trans feminist queer affirming space. Politically aligned with suppressing black. No, with supporting

00:22:40.240 black liberation. OK, so anyway, finally, Black Lives Matter weighs in on this big scandal that New

00:22:45.760 York magazine broke about the house six point three million than this other six million house in

00:22:49.400 Toronto. And this is what they say. I I love I love whoever writes these press releases is a

00:22:55.920 radically amusing person. These articles are inflammatory. Well, yes, that doesn't mean they're

00:23:01.700 untrue and they're speculative. Well, right. Exactly. Like you wouldn't give him the straight

00:23:07.240 reason why you bought that house. First, you try to say it was a safe house. Then you realize you'd shown

00:23:11.740 it off on all your YouTube videos. So that wouldn't fly. And you decided it was more of a creative

00:23:15.560 space. And now you're calling it a creator's house acquired, quote, to provide a space for black

00:23:22.580 folks to share their gifts with the world, Dave, and to hone their craft as they see fit under

00:23:27.680 conditions that work best for them. Word salad, word salad, hone crafts under conditions that work

00:23:32.300 best for them and outside systems of oppression in creative industries. So basically what they're

00:23:36.960 saying is you can go there and do your arts and crafts if there's some place you don't feel safe to do

00:23:42.180 your arts and crafts as a black person in 2022 America. And for that, they wasted six point three

00:23:47.760 million bucks of donors dough. I want some kind of nonprofit to buy me a six million dollar house

00:23:54.680 so I can do arts and crafts. You know, I'm pretty good. I just was at my niece's six year old birthday

00:23:59.940 party and they're all making the slime now. You know about the slime. They make it with shaving cream

00:24:04.400 and you can make it all different colors. It's pretty awesome. And I would love a six million

00:24:08.520 dollar house, maybe on the water, something really nice on the water. Well, we could call it

00:24:12.900 we could call it a trans feminist queer affirming space. You know, it's funny when you said that it

00:24:19.080 reminded me of did you ever see Lethal Weapon 2? Remember Lethal Weapon with Mel Gibson and Danny

00:24:23.640 Glover and Danny Glover in the second one, the whole running joke throughout the movie is he's kind

00:24:28.860 of too old to be a cop at this point. And he repeatedly keeps saying, I'm getting too old for this

00:24:33.960 at S8. You got the rest of the word. And that's what I'm starting to feel. When you said that, I was

00:24:39.360 like, my gut feeling was I'm getting too old for this. Like we've been through this nonsense. These people

00:24:45.460 are never going to stop. They're going to keep adding words. They're going to keep adding pronouns.

00:24:50.100 And that's what I mean about sort of disconnecting, making choices in your own life to say, hey, I can't

00:24:56.080 live in a city where my kids are going to be indoctrinated, where I won't feel safe outside and doing the

00:25:01.600 things because they're not going to stop the powers that be the Disney corporation, all of the things

00:25:08.580 that we see every day are feeding them, are giving them money, giving them power, giving them influence.

00:25:14.700 I don't know that we can stop that. Although you could, you know, cancel your Disney plus subscription

00:25:19.500 as I did, but you can at least start building some new things for yourself because no one, no one will

00:25:25.480 pay for this. Right. So $6 million, of course it was her house or her wife's house or her husband's

00:25:31.240 house or he, she's house, whatever. But now it's a creative space, you know, because you can't get

00:25:36.140 a creative space for say 250 grand. You need a $6 million. That's right. You know, I, I kind of

00:25:43.220 like the story. I have to say, I'll be honest, because it's like all these people who are taken

00:25:46.500 in, there are some meaningful, well-intended people who donate and I'm sure to Black Lives Matter,

00:25:51.260 but to those who are just virtue signaling, right. You just want to make themselves look good.

00:25:55.280 I thought they were paying insurance. It's like, ah, you have no insurance against anything.

00:26:00.060 This group's endorsement of you, whoever you are as a non-racist is totally meaningless.

00:26:05.380 And now you see that all you're doing is funding Patrice colors, arts and crafts projects. That's

00:26:10.600 it. Okay. Enjoy that. And this is the same way I feel about all these people who are like,

00:26:14.600 it's fine for Leah Thomas to swim against the biological women, you know, be more queer affirming,

00:26:20.680 right. Stop with your objections. I'm like, great, let's do this thing. Let's get a white

00:26:27.900 male tennis player who couldn't make it on the pro circuit, who then says he's trans and enters

00:26:36.480 professional women's tennis. And let's put him up against Naomi Osaka and Serena Williams and say,

00:26:44.240 he's a woman and crush them and put these people, these sort of queer affirming, shaming everybody

00:26:51.200 else. People in the toughest position of their lives. We know he's secretly a white man and yet

00:26:58.460 he's beating all of our best women of color. What the hell should we do?

00:27:03.920 Megan, I like where your head's at. Cause I actually think you're right. I know you're being

00:27:07.960 slightly tongue in cheek, but in a way it's like, we should just accelerate their nonsense because

00:27:12.300 that's where it all ends. Right. That is where it ends. I kid you not. I am 45 years old. I have a

00:27:18.340 torn ACL in my left knee. I'm pretty sure that if I said I was a woman, I could make the WNBA.

00:27:24.740 They're not that great. That's just how it is. I still got some skills left. Okay. And it's like,

00:27:30.200 at some point there is going to be a washed up NBA player who's 39 years old with banged up knees,

00:27:37.360 who had a bad back, who can't get a contract anymore. And he's going to say, my name is not

00:27:43.100 Charles anymore. It's Shaniqua or whatever. And he's going to be in the WNBA. And all of the

00:27:48.940 feminists are going to have to go, Oh my God, look at that beautiful woman dunking over all the other

00:27:55.000 chicks. So yeah, let's just accelerate the nonsense. If this is the world you want to live in,

00:28:00.660 congratulations. It'd be so fun to see like truly what does, what does professional tennis do?

00:28:05.080 If these women who they've lauded, who they've made professional stars out of like worldwide

00:28:10.820 superstars stars out of, um, and in part based on their backstory, based on their race, based on

00:28:16.180 whatever, um, certainly gender, if they start losing to somebody who's biologically male,

00:28:22.100 who just declares I'm no longer I'm trans, I'm bringing my penis and my white skin over into women's

00:28:30.840 tennis. I, I hope it happens. I really hope it happens. I hope somebody decides to do it

00:28:36.620 and then we'll see. Then that, then the rubber meets the road. All right, Dave, I'm bringing my

00:28:42.280 penis. That's they're not even going to use a racket. I'm bringing my penis and this is how we're

00:28:46.380 going to do it. I'm going to think about that during the commercial break. I might have to work

00:28:55.000 on the slogan a little. Okay. I confess. I stand by, we're going to do a commercial. We're going to do

00:28:59.600 more with Dave coming up. Dave Rubin is here today. His new book, don't burn this country

00:29:10.620 surviving and thriving in our woke dystopia is out today. It's a great read. It's a fast read.

00:29:17.680 Dave makes very salient points. He gets in and out. He doesn't bore you on a subject and he doesn't

00:29:22.220 use word salad. Uh, so you'll appreciate this and you'll laugh too. In fact, here's I, here's one part

00:29:28.520 I highlighted that I laughed out loud on. Uh, we don't want to be numbed and silenced and kept in

00:29:33.020 the dark. This is speaking to the fact that so many people in America, the majority, two thirds,

00:29:37.920 uh, are afraid to say the things they believe because they're, they fear that others might

00:29:41.620 find them offensive. I mean, two thirds of the country is censoring itself because they're worried

00:29:46.040 about offense. Just, just offend, just defend, just do it. It's fine. People survive. Anyway,

00:29:50.380 you go on to say, we don't want to be controlled by a small fraction of hysterical people

00:29:54.760 amplified by algorithms and media. We don't want to live like hamsters in a cage being fed

00:29:59.180 once a week and occasionally being put in a plastic ball that will undoubtedly fall down

00:30:03.020 the stairs. Sorry, Chippy. Wait, what? What happened to Chippy?

00:30:08.980 It's, uh, it's a sad story. Chippy. Chippy was my, my gerbil in first grade and Chippy went the same

00:30:18.020 way. Many gerbils go many gerbils, your hamsters, your other small rodents that are, you know, the

00:30:23.620 children's, uh, first pet. Chippy was in the ball. We thought everything was going to be fine. And,

00:30:28.600 uh, Chippy got a little close to the stairs and, uh, yada, yada, yada. Chippy was in a shoe box later

00:30:35.820 in the day in the backyard, but he lived a good life. He had a, he had a good run. That was 1981.

00:30:41.240 I believe he had a good run. By the way, Megan, can I just say, not only were you lovely enough to,

00:30:48.340 uh, give me a nice blurb on the back of the book and you're going to join me in West Nyack,

00:30:51.840 which I'm super psyched for. Uh, but you even worded, you even got tequila in the blurb.

00:30:56.940 You even wrote about drinking some tequila with me. And I thought that is as good as it gets. If

00:31:01.380 you would've told me 10 years ago when I was nobody, I was nothing that one day Megan Kelly

00:31:06.600 would be blurb in my book and talking about drinking tequila with me. Like how much better

00:31:11.080 does it get than that? Come on. See how I love, I see. I, I, I understand. I love, and we did have

00:31:16.060 good times drinking tequila. You, David, to whom the book is dedicated. The other David, you say,

00:31:19.920 not yourself. That's your, your husband. He's your Dave. He's David. Um, and I, you told me

00:31:25.880 a very sweet story about you guys in the 2016 election. It was, what was that? It was the

00:31:30.500 2016 election. And you were both asked that. I'm trying to remember the exact question. I'll let

00:31:36.460 you take it. Oh, well, are you talking about the Trump question you're asking? I don't know.

00:31:41.100 It's about like, no, wasn't it like, who would you, who would you sleep with if you went on the

00:31:44.680 crossover tour? Oh, no, that was at our wedding. No, no, no, at our wedding. Wow. We're really

00:31:50.220 going to do this one publicly, huh? So at our wedding, um, which we got married in August of

00:31:55.360 2015, our moms, uh, we had a very small wedding, just our immediate families. And we each had one

00:32:00.760 friend and we did a week in Sonoma. It was really fantastic at a house because our, our families

00:32:04.880 had been living all over the world and we wanted everybody to really make sure they could get to

00:32:08.800 know each other for a week. And then we got married on the last day and there was a lot of wine and

00:32:12.360 really great. So on, on the last day, uh, before the wedding, our moms did a little newlywed game

00:32:18.500 where they took each of us separately and asked us a whole bunch of different questions. And we

00:32:24.580 didn't know what the, they asked us the same questions, but we didn't know what the questions

00:32:28.020 were obviously. And I didn't know that he was being asked questions or anything like that.

00:32:30.960 The question that we both got asked was if you could sleep with one other person, a celebrity,

00:32:37.240 who would it be now in that we're both marrying dudes? Uh, you might've thought we would have

00:32:43.200 both answered men. Uh, but no, we both by total coincidence. And this was announced at the dinner

00:32:50.200 after we got married and they were going through the game. We both said, Megan Kelly.

00:32:54.600 It was meant to be, it was meant to be, it's an intellectual love affair. That's what it is.

00:33:00.720 It's intellectual. You know, this is, this could get very awkward at our next dinner, but, uh,

00:33:06.300 you know, you know what? Well, here in Connecticut, we did actually find out that there's a healthy

00:33:11.260 swinging population. No one's offered to me and to Doug to swing yet, nor will that go well if they

00:33:17.760 do. But apparently this is a growing thing, Dave, where like there's swingers everywhere. And I said to

00:33:24.360 Doug, I, my own belief is only unattractive people are swingers. Like if you're, if you're very good

00:33:29.720 looking and you marry another very good looking person, I like, why would you want to swing?

00:33:33.240 Is he like, I already got the steak. I'm not going to go swing with the burger.

00:33:37.160 You got to watch out up there because the Clintons live somewhere near there. Right. So,

00:33:41.240 you know, Bill is definitely maxing out those things right now. Nobody wants a part of that.

00:33:45.840 I mean, he is not looking very good these days. If Bill and Hillary ask us to swing,

00:33:49.620 we're doing it. We're not going to, we're not going to see it through to the end, but we're

00:33:52.580 definitely going to see how far they're going to take it. Like at what point is this going to get

00:33:56.380 shut down? Come on. Wouldn't you like to see, like, does Hillary have a sexual side? There's

00:34:01.780 no way Hillary is a sexual being in any way. Is there? No. There's like eight things that I could

00:34:08.000 say right now that would probably get us all banned from Sirius and YouTube and everything else. So

00:34:14.800 suffice to say, I don't want to do it with Hillary Clinton. Wait, here's another question for you. My

00:34:20.140 friends and I were discussing this today. Very important text chain. You know, when you see the

00:34:24.840 couples where the one half wears the mask and the other half doesn't, and they're both young and

00:34:29.820 they're, they seem perfectly healthy. It's not like somebody's elderly. Do you think, so the one

00:34:34.680 friend was asking, do you think that the woman, if it's the woman, does she wear the mask during

00:34:39.160 intimate relations? Does she, does she ever take the mask off? She's only with him. Like they're in

00:34:43.380 the car. Does she wear it when they're intimate? And the other, my other friend was like, they're not

00:34:47.960 intimate. Those, those couples are not having sex. And I was like, that's the correct answer. How, why would

00:34:52.280 you share bodily fluids with somebody whose breath you won't intake? Right. At this point,

00:34:57.220 two years later, if you're still wearing a mask, and of course there are not talking about elderly

00:35:01.560 people or immunocompromised people. Okay. But if you're just relatively young, healthy couple,

00:35:05.560 and one of you or both of you is still wearing a mask, that is the signal. You should just wear a hat

00:35:11.200 that says, I have not been laid since the pandemic started that it should just be on you or a,

00:35:17.760 you know, scarlet letter, something like that. Cause come on already with this.

00:35:22.700 My God, I'm thinking about Dr. Fauci and Rochelle Walensky now in a whole new light. No wonder

00:35:26.440 they're so miserable.

00:35:28.380 Well, no, they're not wearing masks. They just want us to be masked, but you know,

00:35:33.080 that they're the highest level hypocrites that you can possibly imagine. You know, Fauci telling,

00:35:38.640 I still can't get over the one where at the height of COVID, you know, you probably saw the email

00:35:42.840 where he told a friend of his emailed him and said, we're all going on vacation with the kids. I think

00:35:47.120 they were going to Mexico. Should we wear masks? And he basically says no. And he also says the

00:35:51.420 kids will probably touch their face more. And then meanwhile, about two weeks later,

00:35:54.860 he's telling us all to double mask. I mean, the guy, of course. But did you see the latest news

00:35:59.840 now? Now they're remasking in Philly. Indoor mask mandates are back because of this rise in this

00:36:04.860 latest variant, which of course is no, no more deadly, no more deadly than even Omicron was,

00:36:10.340 but okay. And we had just have to look at case numbers again. I thought we weren't doing that

00:36:13.540 Philly indoor mask mandate and now transportation. I can't stand Pete Buttigieg having control over

00:36:19.180 my face when I'm on an airplane, a bus, a train. I resent it. I'd rather he just spent more time

00:36:25.240 with his babies. Like, go focus on them. Your instincts were exactly right. Don't focus on us

00:36:30.300 because you're making all the wrong decisions. And now they're saying that they may, they may extend

00:36:35.060 the mask mandate that was supposed to come off next week beyond that. Because again, the variant,

00:36:41.440 but, but you've got 10 airlines saying this is absurd. All the people who get on our airplanes

00:36:46.920 can congregate in churches, in malls, at baseball games, in indoor arenas on top of one another.

00:36:54.940 But they, when in an airplane with controlled airflow, have to wear a mask. What sense does this make?

00:37:01.940 Megan, the truth is, and we all know this now, none of this has made any sense from the beginning,

00:37:05.980 but they will not stop until we just refuse to participate. So I live in free Florida now.

00:37:12.780 And guess what? While 99% of the people that I see, whether I'm at Whole Foods or at Target

00:37:17.380 or at the park or anywhere else are not wearing masks, sometimes you see people wear masks,

00:37:22.280 even riding a bike. And you know what? So be it. If that's how you choose to live and you have your

00:37:26.600 reasons, that's just fine. That's the way a mature society would operate. If you would like to wear a

00:37:31.520 mask on a plane for whatever reason you so choose, then do it. But the endless hypocrisy,

00:37:37.500 I mean, if you're a parent right now in Philadelphia and they're going to put masks on your kids again,

00:37:42.700 which they're still doing to toddlers, I think in New York city right now, there's literally no

00:37:46.740 science to back that. They are not going to stop until you say to them, either I'm leaving and all of

00:37:53.580 the productive, functional people will leave these cities and then they will be left to become the

00:37:57.980 dystopian nightmares that in many cases they are. You either have to leave or you have to bring in

00:38:02.600 new people. But the way the machine or whatever you want to call it operates, it just pushes us

00:38:09.320 and pushes us. And if you look, if you just step away for a moment and you think about what happened

00:38:14.180 these last two years, if you think about it as just a test, it was just a test. What will Americans do

00:38:20.020 when everything that they've come to know and love is challenged? Well, pretty much everybody fails,

00:38:25.580 everybody. And we could all look in the mirror to say we all did to some degree. I think I'm proud

00:38:30.900 to say that pretty quickly after the two weeks, I pretty much woke up, I would say by week three or

00:38:36.380 by week four. And I would give everybody a very long leash at the beginning of this. But at this

00:38:41.600 point, how come we never saw any videos of any hospitals anywhere that were really overrun of

00:38:48.260 homeless encampments that were run of places where they don't have proper water sanitation and

00:38:53.040 everything else in Africa, perhaps that there was mass death. We didn't see it anywhere throughout

00:38:58.080 the world. That is not to say COVID didn't exist. I got COVID in December. I had Omicron. I'm not

00:39:03.440 vaccinated. I had leg pains for three days. David got it at the same time. He's also not vaccinated.

00:39:08.980 He actually was sick for a couple of weeks, but we made the choices for ourselves. By the way,

00:39:13.020 we also got it. We had just moved to Florida where we were able to get monoclonal treatment and

00:39:18.720 ivermectin immediately, where in California, you could not get it. And the federal government,

00:39:23.820 in fact, stopped Florida from allowing the monoclonal treatment, although now they're

00:39:28.100 saying that they're going to stock up on it again. So everything from top down here has been done

00:39:33.040 backwards. The only resolution to any of this is that if they're going to start bringing this stuff

00:39:38.980 back, you must fight it or you must leave or live like a slave, live like someone that is just fed

00:39:44.920 crumbs now and again, like a fish in a bowl or a hamster in a, in a little ball and just know that

00:39:50.040 somebody, somebody above you is controlling you and accept it and move on. And it's, it's everywhere.

00:39:55.200 You know, these officials who shouldn't be controlling us in our cities, uh, school officials

00:40:00.440 who are imposing. I mean, I was saying yesterday, my, my sixth grader is home all week because he was

00:40:05.560 exposed to a COVID positive kid on Saturday night for a short time. And now it's not, I mean, it's in part

00:40:11.420 the school's fault, but it's really the CDC that's still recommending kids like my kid who doesn't

00:40:15.920 have COVID. He's a hundred percent fine. He's tested negative repeatedly and he doesn't have

00:40:19.540 symptoms. He has to sit at home for five days. Why? Why? Because he had a brief exposure to this.

00:40:24.780 Like, this is absurd. It's they shouldn't have these powers over us, you know, and it spreads to

00:40:32.160 big tech. But they don't unless they don't. But, but Megan, the point is, and this really is the

00:40:37.560 point of the book is that I'm sorry to interrupt you, but this is the point. They only have the

00:40:41.740 power over you until you say you do not have power over me anymore. So I would, I would ask you

00:40:47.340 actually, so your, your kids, I mean, have you seen a marked change in their behavior or attitude

00:40:51.420 in these last two years? Cause I know a lot of parents with kids around your kid's age that are

00:40:55.480 seeing a huge difference. Like what, what are you seeing within your kids? So no, because I've been

00:40:59.860 lucky. I mean, we moved to Connecticut, which has acres and acres of land and the ability to do school

00:41:07.340 outside and to distance the children. Now they did have to have the damn masks on and they were

00:41:11.860 driving all three of my kids crazy, but that's, I don't even count that given what's happened to

00:41:16.120 other children in this whole pandemic as, you know, ranking in response to your question,

00:41:21.520 because the masks are off now and there are kids who have committed suicide, tried to commit suicide,

00:41:25.920 been incredibly depressed, you know, not eaten, been subjected to severe abuse inside the home.

00:41:31.980 None of which counts to Dr. Fauci. None of it, none of that registers, doesn't qualify even as public

00:41:35.880 health. So anyway, my kids were on the lucky side because they went to schools that were open.

00:41:40.660 They were allowed to go. They had to do all the nonsense with the plexiglass and the mass and all

00:41:43.980 that. And our school has a mandatory vaccine, which we haven't complied with. But yeah, it's,

00:41:49.720 it's tough. And parents are placed in a tough position because Dave, like if things go south for

00:41:54.500 us here, what are we going to do? Move again and then move again. It's like, at some point you'll find

00:41:59.880 out soon. You have to offer some stability in your child's life. Right. So, so of course,

00:42:05.260 for me without kids yet, I can't speak fully to that. And I fully empathize with that. And my,

00:42:10.700 as I said to you earlier, my sister moved with her kids from New York city to Florida in the midst of

00:42:14.640 this. And I get, especially your kids are a little, my kid, her kids were, you know, three and five.

00:42:19.300 It's a little bit easier to move than once they hit 12 and, you know, they have all the friends and

00:42:22.820 all that sports and all that stuff. So I completely get that. And I can't fully speak to that from a

00:42:27.760 personal experience. But I would say actually the answer is yes, you do have to move. You have to

00:42:33.860 move. And then what you have to do, I think is the next version of this is that you then have to secure

00:42:39.060 the new place that you're in. So certainly where you are now is obviously better for a million reasons

00:42:44.920 than being in sort of the belly of the beast of New York city. For me leaving Los Angeles, I could

00:42:50.160 have gone virtually anywhere except say Portland, Seattle, San Francisco, or New York city. And it

00:42:55.840 basically would have been better. However, I chose Florida and I chose it for a reason. Not only

00:43:00.340 I live in the Miami suburbs, Miami is now a tech hub because all of the people fleeing all of these

00:43:05.780 places, all of the same people from the tech world of San Francisco, they've all moved here. I'm friends

00:43:11.240 with a lot of them. And I go to a lot of events with these people. They're never voting Democrat

00:43:14.420 again. Now that doesn't mean that the Republicans are right, but I always say you don't have to be a

00:43:19.820 Republican, but you cannot be a Democrat at this point. We have to secure the states that can be

00:43:25.240 secured. We have to secure the cities that can be secured. So it may just be that because of the

00:43:31.640 proximity to New York city and the lunacy that is focused there, that the tri-state area. And again,

00:43:38.020 I grew up there. This is an area I know really well and love for much of my life. It may just be that

00:43:43.740 that area cannot function in a decent way anymore, unless you really want to disconnect and live off

00:43:49.580 the grid, which is sort of impossible if you have young kids, but there will be places that will thrive.

00:43:54.760 I think Florida is the prime example of it. Obviously, I think Texas is going to be fine.

00:43:58.920 Actually, there's been some worry about it flipping, but I think Texas will be fine.

00:44:02.640 I think Tennessee will be fine. There are other red states that'll be fine. I think Arizona is going

00:44:06.500 to shift back red. And again, I don't mean to make this partisan, like Republican versus Democrat,

00:44:12.260 but it, but it is. And that's the weird thing. That's the weird position that someone like me,

00:44:16.840 who in 2016 was a Bernie supporter would, would be saying right now.

00:44:20.820 Right. Well, and I should say it wasn't easy for you to leave Los Angeles anyway. I mean,

00:44:26.640 I visited you guys, you had this beautiful home you had just moved into, you decorated it. It was

00:44:32.040 like an oasis for you. You had your studio built there. It wasn't all that easy for you to say,

00:44:37.360 we're out of here. You know, it's not like you had no logistical obstacles preventing that,

00:44:41.820 but you had enough. And I was with you guys as you were sort of getting to that point. It was like,

00:44:45.800 oh my God, it's gone crazy. You know, the, the, the city's crazy, the state's crazy,

00:44:50.880 but we can make it work. And then slowly, but surely the downward spiral into there's no winning

00:44:56.020 this fight here. Look, as you know, I campaigned with Larry Elder for the recall and the recall

00:45:02.400 went incredibly poorly for a series of reasons that we don't have to get into now. I will tell

00:45:07.440 you that one, one of the reasons I think it did go poorly was that they pushed everything to mail in

00:45:12.620 ballots, which where you don't have to show ID, even when you're in person. So I voted in person,

00:45:17.720 you don't have to show ID. I actually tried to show my ID and the guy kind of flinched at me

00:45:21.920 like, no, no, no, no, no. We don't do that here. As if I had pulled out a weapon, something like that.

00:45:26.260 But no matter which way you folded the ballot, because they give you a normal size envelope.

00:45:30.540 So you can only fold, you know, you can fold it three ways, only so many different directions.

00:45:34.700 You could either look through the, I kid you not, you could either look through the envelope and on one

00:45:39.720 side, see the vote for Larry Elder, or on the other side, you could see the vote for yes on

00:45:45.200 recall. So no matter which way you folded it, I swear to you, you didn't even need an iPhone

00:45:49.340 camera, you know, flashlight to look at it. You just could hold it up to the sunlight and see.

00:45:53.660 Now, do you think that maybe there's some fraudulent activity there? I'm actually not even saying there

00:45:58.460 is, but the point is my trust in the system, in the place that I live had been completely decimated.

00:46:05.080 And when you don't have trust in the system at that point, on top of the fact that, you

00:46:09.500 know, the crime was going up in the homeless and all that stuff, then at some point you

00:46:13.040 have to say, okay, this is my life. And do I want to fund my own demise with my tax money

00:46:19.600 and my skills? And one of the things that was tricky for me is, you know, I have a production

00:46:23.280 company, so I have a bunch of guys that work for me, a bunch of guys and girls. And I had

00:46:26.380 to say to everybody, hey, I want to go. Will you join me? And I was worried. Every single

00:46:30.760 person within 10 seconds said, yes, I'm coming. All right. Stand by. More with Dave coming

00:46:37.620 up. There's plenty to get to, including his children that he's now expected, two of them

00:46:42.380 to be exact.

00:46:45.920 Now, when I look at your book tour, it begins on April 19th. It has 14 stops, including yours

00:46:53.180 truly on April 26th and West Nyack. People would like to come see the two of us, April 26th

00:46:57.920 and West Nyack. Here's some other dates. Glenn Beck, April 24th in Dallas. Andrew Clavin.

00:47:03.200 Love him. Just was on April 21st in Raleigh, North Carolina. Dennis Prager, May 11th in Brea,

00:47:08.840 California. Larry Elder, May 12th in Oxnard, California. Douglas Murray. Oh my God, I love

00:47:13.720 these people. May 15th in San Jose, California. And the first stop on April 19th is with Donald

00:47:18.980 Trump Jr. in Florida. So that'll be fun. And I thought to myself, my God, how does he have

00:47:24.620 time to go all over these places? It's amazing. The number of stops he's he's going to. And

00:47:29.460 I'm predicting now your third book when that comes out a year from now and you have two

00:47:33.260 babies sitting there in your house, your book tour is going to look like this. Miami. I

00:47:40.200 might do a live hit from Miami, my home. Yeah. From the local pizza joint. Right. Enjoy it

00:47:47.500 while you can, because your freedom is about to change, but your happiness is too. All right. So

00:47:53.400 explain to the world that doesn't understand, because I understand how a gay man can have a

00:47:57.840 baby, but I didn't understand how you could have two different babies coming within like a few months

00:48:03.140 of one another. Like I twins, I get these are not exactly twins. Explain what's happening.

00:48:09.060 Yeah. So let me preface this all by saying this is a little confusing. And even as one of the

00:48:15.220 guys involved in this situation, it is a little confusing. And I've had to have a lot of talks

00:48:19.140 with fertility people and with doctors and with all sorts of people to make some sense of this.

00:48:24.900 But I should also say, Megan, I'm not a biologist. So you're going to have to work with me here when

00:48:29.000 I'm giving you some basics on how babies are born. But generally speaking, women have eggs and men have

00:48:34.840 sperm. When these two things meet each other, you then get an embryo, which eventually, of course,

00:48:40.440 becomes a baby. There's my husband, David and I. And yes, we also have the same name, which people think

00:48:44.780 is hilarious. But in essence, what we did do is we got one egg donor. And when you get an egg donor,

00:48:52.960 you get a certain amount of eggs. Sometimes you get a lot of eggs. Sometimes you get just one egg.

00:48:57.480 Sometimes you get no eggs. And actually, you would probably find it very interesting that in the

00:49:01.640 course of COVID, there was a huge problem. There were two problems actually related to surrogacy.

00:49:08.180 They were finding, at least our doctor, who's one of the best in the world, was finding that the

00:49:12.200 quality of eggs was not as good as usual, which they couldn't really find any scientific evidence

00:49:17.800 for. They need a lot of time, obviously, to research that. He could really only chalk up to

00:49:22.340 general stress that was going on with the women's bodies. And then they had another problem related

00:49:27.920 to surrogacy, which is that the pool of women who generally are surrogates, they tend to lean a little

00:49:35.160 more conservative. And actually, a lot of them, even those who are willing to be surrogates for same-sex

00:49:39.580 couples, they tend to be a little more religious. And that pool of women, many of them did not want

00:49:46.040 to get vaccinated. But the governing body of whoever handles the surrogacy situation, they wanted the

00:49:53.600 surrogates to be vaccinated. So you had a low quality of eggs. And then you had women who were

00:49:59.340 generally the surrogates, a high percentage of them who did not want to get vaccinated. So there was a

00:50:04.520 huge problem in the last two years related to surrogacy. But to directly answer your question,

00:50:10.720 the two boys that we'll be having, and they are boys, it is not that is a biological reality that

00:50:16.980 they are male. It is not something that we can choose or they can choose. They come from the same

00:50:22.540 eggs, so the same biological mother. And then one of them is from my sperm and one of them is from

00:50:28.900 David's sperm. And then we have two surrogates. So one will be born. So how did that happen?

00:50:34.260 How does what happen?

00:50:35.260 Yeah, because normally you find one surrogate and you're like, great, here are the, you know,

00:50:40.440 whatever. I know it's not her eggs, but you basically are like, here are the embryos. Could

00:50:45.500 you please carry one or two to term? And she's like, sure. Right. That's how generally surrogacy works.

00:50:51.100 So how did you guys decide you were going to have two different babies and two different surrogates at

00:50:56.040 once? So what happened was, well, a few things happened. Well, first off, they really don't do

00:51:01.220 twins or multiple pregnancies as much as they used to. It's considered a higher risk pregnancy. And

00:51:06.000 although usually twins is not a real risk to the kids, to the babies or to the mother, it is considered

00:51:11.780 a higher risk pregnancy. There is some degree there. So there are less surrogates that are willing to do

00:51:16.720 twins, which we sort of knew that we wanted to have two anyway. So that was one issue. But then what

00:51:22.320 happened was over the course of the couple of years that we've been trying this, there were a

00:51:26.220 couple of miscarriages involved. And we realized that, you know, the clock is ticking. I'm 45 years

00:51:31.520 old. I want to be able to play catch with these kids. I want them to see when I'm in the WNBA, as I

00:51:36.280 said earlier. So with your penis. So basically what happened, yeah, basically what happened was when the

00:51:42.420 first one was a confirmed pregnancy and we were, you know, as enough weeks in to feel comfortable with

00:51:47.580 that, we said, let's just, let's just keep going because we didn't know is the second one going to

00:51:52.400 take three more years. And then by chance, the second, the second one took and, uh, and here we

00:51:57.860 are. So yeah, I've got till August, but I've had a pretty good run, Megan 45, you know, I've done what

00:52:02.140 I wanted basically when I wanted to do it. And, uh, it's time for that next phase.

00:52:07.080 Well, I mean, your, your life will of course change dramatically and especially having two at once

00:52:11.500 your, your, your free time is going to go away like that. You'll be shocked at how tired you are all the

00:52:16.980 time. I mean, I can speak to this, having become a mother at 38 and then I had a second at 40 and

00:52:20.860 then I had my third at 42. And all I could think was there's a reason God cuts you off. There's a

00:52:25.420 re he knows you can't, I don't have it in me. And when they're little, they're so needy. You know,

00:52:31.220 it's like every second they need you to have eyes on them and so on. And you know, if you want to be a

00:52:35.620 present parent, you want it to, even though not every moment is ideal. Um, okay. So two boys and what do

00:52:42.180 you, like, I know this is sort of a weird question, but like, why did you want to have kids? Why was

00:52:47.760 it important to you? What do you, what do you hope will happen to you, to your life?

00:52:53.900 Yeah. Well, first of all, I'm, I'm completely happy to talk to you about this personally or

00:52:58.620 professionally. We happen to do a lot of the same stuff that we do privately. We do on camera,

00:53:02.700 which can be a little weird sometime, but there's really nobody I'd rather discuss this with. And

00:53:05.920 there's a lot of issues around it that I'm happy to get into as well. You know, there were a couple

00:53:10.180 things that were happening first off, you know, I'm 45, as I said. So when I grew up, especially

00:53:14.580 first, I struggled. I was with my sexuality. I was in the closet for a long time. I never envisioned

00:53:19.920 a future for myself. That really is the truth. I never thought of a future. I didn't think of a

00:53:24.360 family either married to a woman or a man or anything. I just lived. That's just what it was.

00:53:29.460 It's hard to really fully understand in retrospect, but I just kind of lived at each day would come and

00:53:35.980 go. And that was it. Uh, when I met David, things started to change a little bit and he is a little

00:53:39.980 bit younger than me. So when he was growing up, um, you know, it was sort of becoming obvious that

00:53:44.880 gay people would be allowed to be married. It was a little more normal to be gay. You know,

00:53:49.240 when I was a kid or younger, at least in the eighties and the nineties, there were no role

00:53:53.320 models to look at. You know, you had Paul Lind from the seventies on Hollywood squares, or like,

00:53:59.640 there was only sort of these over the top clowns or Harvey Fierstein or whatever. And I'm not even

00:54:04.760 judging these people, but there were things, it just had nothing to do with who I was or who,

00:54:08.520 how I behaved. Um, and yet there was this other part of me that somehow connected with,

00:54:13.660 with that. Um, David grew up in a world that was really changing where it became sort of

00:54:17.980 mainstream to be gay. I would say we've now jumped the shark of gay in mainstream. And now

00:54:22.320 we've gone to something much different. You know, we've gone from equality to something really

00:54:27.220 bizarre related to all of the gender identity stuff, but he really wanted kids. And I, and I thought,

00:54:32.860 well, okay, I'm, I'm married to somebody who really wants something to live the best life for

00:54:37.040 themselves. Like, am I going to be the person to deny him that that was one thing. And then the

00:54:40.920 other thing that I wrote about in, in my first book was that I was on tour with Jordan Peterson.

00:54:45.500 And one of the things that Jordan talked about almost every single night was the need for most

00:54:51.540 people, not everybody, but for most people to live the fully complete life. Uh, part of that is

00:54:59.080 being a parent. And then ultimately part of that is being a grandparent that it is not to say

00:55:03.280 everybody. There are some people who through their own artistic pursuits or whatever it might be,

00:55:08.420 can live a full good life without that. But almost everybody needs that experience. And I think that's

00:55:15.060 what we inherently know. It's what you're saying to me, sort of when you're saying, oh, you know,

00:55:19.500 the free time will disappear, but something else is going to happen. There is something that you,

00:55:23.960 Megan, know as a parent about the world that I don't know yet. And I think it's probably something

00:55:28.980 worth knowing that really is the truth. It's funny. Cause in a way I, I see, you know,

00:55:34.240 parenthood is a shield against so much of the nonsense that's out there, you know, cause if

00:55:39.920 your home life is shorn up, if you're happy there, if you've set it up the way you want it to be set

00:55:44.220 up, very little can really hurt you. It's like, all right, everything on the outside can boil down

00:55:49.500 to dollars and cents. And that can be stressful. I understand. I had a part of my life where that,

00:55:53.460 that was me too. Um, but you look around, you're going to see those two boys on the couch. Let's

00:56:01.040 say when they're, you know, three or five and they're sitting next to David and you're watching

00:56:05.900 some stupid TV or you're showing them some show that you guys both loved at some point

00:56:10.180 and they're sweet. And ideally they're a little tired, like your children best, just like my dog

00:56:18.620 Strutwick's tired. He's amazing anyway. And you think I am good. I'm good. There's very little,

00:56:25.660 you know, some blogger, some nasty. I know actually I was, my team was pointing out one

00:56:30.760 of your tweets that where you were saying, I have a, this is the quote. I have a couple

00:56:34.460 hilariously bad hit pieces incoming one by a quote. Journalist who lied to me about the intentions of

00:56:38.580 the piece has repeatedly lied to over a dozen people about the story so he could get them on the record

00:56:42.960 all sending me his requests. So that can cause some kind of stress. It's like you have your book.

00:56:47.620 You don't want some jerk writing a hit piece on you and where he lured your friends into commenting.

00:56:52.720 It's meaningless. I am here to tell you. It's so meaningless, Dave, that that hit piece will not

00:56:58.600 affect a single person who is going to buy your book in one way or who is open-minded to you in

00:57:03.180 one way, shape or form. I know it just from having lived it so many years, but I also know that like

00:57:07.860 when the babes are there, like the back to the image of the kids on the couch with David,

00:57:12.220 you're going to be like, write whatever you want. I'm good. You can't hurt me. You, you know,

00:57:17.620 I always think of the line from Jerry Maguire from the crazy Kelly Preston character. And

00:57:21.800 she's like, you can't hurt me, Jerry. I'm too strong for you. That that's you and the world

00:57:27.620 when you have kids and you've quote centered them to borrow the woke left's term. But like

00:57:33.440 you really have, you centered your life around family, around meaning, around what really will

00:57:38.000 sustain you in the dark hours, not all the BS. And it's not to say there's no meaning without

00:57:43.080 the children. It's just next level when they're there. You know, it's funny. I could say, I think

00:57:48.860 you're right, but I know you're right. Right. Like that. And I think that was Jordan's point when he

00:57:52.880 was saying this about people having that need to end up living a life that is truly full to get to

00:57:58.700 that. It's like, I can listen to you say that. And intellectually I can say, well, that sounds

00:58:03.440 right, but it's not really what I'm thinking right now. It's, I know you are right. I know that that

00:58:08.320 is what the complete life is. It is something so innately human that we all sort of know that.

00:58:15.100 And that isn't to say that there isn't a part of me that right now, as our first child will be

00:58:19.300 born in August. I'm kind of like, oh man, we got to have all the fun we can and have all the crazy

00:58:24.500 nights. We, not that we do anything crazy. I usually fall asleep watching Seinfeld at 1030,

00:58:28.120 but like, like, I just got to get out there and do everything I can when I want so that I'm not always

00:58:33.020 having to take a nap because everyone keeps telling me how tired I'm going to be.

00:58:36.220 I love when people say that. Like, like you've got to store up your sleep.

00:58:39.540 I know that you're right.

00:58:40.520 You know, so you got to store up your sleep or store up your fun. Like that's how life works.

00:58:43.460 You know, people always say when you're pregnant with a baby, like make sure you sleep, sleep now.

00:58:46.960 It's like, is that how sleep works? Can I bank it? I can like, I think you can bank it. I think you

00:58:52.000 can bank it. I don't think so. All right. So I get it and I support it and I'm very excited for you

00:58:56.920 guys. And I, I'm going to have to think about like what, what I should put in. Like when Julie Banderas had her baby

00:59:02.980 at Fox, I had just had mine. So I put her together like the best new mother basket. Cause I had just

00:59:09.360 been through it. And it was like the F factor diet, which I love. Tanya, poor Tanya Zuckerberg took a

00:59:15.520 beating from some woman who wrote me mean stuff about her in the press too. But I love that diet.

00:59:18.840 It works. Um, like some exercise videos that I liked with DVDs, it was so on and so forth. I knew

00:59:25.420 exactly the liquor she liked anyway. So now I'm going to think about you guys. Cause you don't have to

00:59:29.840 lose the weight. Oh, I gave her like these nipple covers. You don't have to worry about that.

00:59:33.800 Um, so in some ways you're going to get, you know, the liquor I like and I'll take the nipple

00:59:37.560 covers. I don't know what I'm going to do with them, but they probably, they can probably double

00:59:40.500 up as something else. It rains a lot in Florida. I don't know. You can clog a leak or something. I

00:59:44.460 have no idea. That's a good point to, to, to pivot for a moment to the unpleasant reaction by some,

00:59:52.120 I think overwhelmingly it's been nice and supportive and loving, but I have noticed that like,

00:59:58.340 there's kind people like Allie Beth Stuckey, who's Christian. I know you're friends with her.

01:00:03.720 And she said, I talked to Dave before I did this piece online to tell you that I don't support this

01:00:09.180 because she's, but she believes in biblical marriage and she doesn't believe, you know,

01:00:12.980 two, two guys should be having a baby together, that kind of thing. Um, I thought she came from

01:00:17.200 a place of kindness and love and just offered a thoughtful comment on it. Cause her audience kind

01:00:22.160 of expected her to, and she had things she wanted to say. Then there's mean people who write

01:00:26.700 something like quote, this is evil, this is evil, plain and simple. They paid for the creation of

01:00:32.540 roughly 18 unique individual human beings, just so that two of them could be successfully implanted

01:00:37.560 in rented wombs and delivered to their purchasers to make it sound so trans. It's like, this is so

01:00:45.100 my friend, Melissa Francis, she talked about it on my show. She, she got a surrogate. She had a blood

01:00:50.680 issue that almost killed. She would say two of her, her first two children when she delivered them.

01:00:58.020 So on baby number three, she got a surrogate. The surrogates can play an important role.

01:01:02.120 Why should gays and lesbians not have the joys of passing on that love? The biggest losers in our

01:01:08.240 country can have babies like the biggest do nothing awful losers who are hateful, murderous,

01:01:15.360 criminal creeps can get together and have a baby. And nobody says, boo, but if it's two guys or if

01:01:21.040 it's two women, we have to say it's, that's bull. So anyway, your thoughts.

01:01:25.460 No. Well, first off, I totally appreciate you bringing this up. Look, 99% of what we got

01:01:29.940 those couple of days after we posted that picture was, was love, believe it or not. You know,

01:01:35.080 the funny thing about the internet, it has really dysregulated us in a crazy way. So basically

01:01:39.760 everyone that I'm publicly associated with or that I've had on my show that has any meaning to me or

01:01:45.640 certainly anyone that I'm friends with privately, we got endless amounts of love. There were some

01:01:50.900 people like Allie Beth who expressed her own personal religious opinion, which by the way,

01:01:54.840 I completely am okay with someone. I respect religious liberty. She's entitled to her own belief

01:02:00.760 and I'm not asking her to marry a woman and have kids with that woman. So, so that's just fine.

01:02:05.500 What I don't want is someone's personal religious beliefs infringing on my own personal liberty.

01:02:12.240 And we can talk further about the tensions between those two things. Cause I think that there are some

01:02:16.500 tensions there, but the funny thing is the way the internet works is Megan, if we put this video up

01:02:21.400 and it gets a million views, 990,000 people watch it and they don't do anything. They don't comment.

01:02:28.020 They just watch it. And maybe they watch the entire thing, or maybe they watch 10 seconds or whatever.

01:02:32.440 And maybe they agreed with us. Maybe they didn't, but we don't know because all we know is

01:02:35.480 that they watch. What happens because of the comments is the 10,000 people who comment generally

01:02:41.620 comment something more angry or, or, uh, not resentful. It's some, it's some sort of conflict

01:02:49.020 that they want to comment on. Right. And then they know that the way the album algorithms work

01:02:53.680 and to get clicks, the crazier you write, the more upvotes you're going to get in the rest of it.

01:02:57.300 And then the average person goes to that video a week later and sees the video and they go, boy,

01:03:02.340 look at this video. It got a million views and all the comments are negative. Boy, there's really

01:03:05.880 something brewing here. That wasn't the reality that we faced at all. That's not to say there

01:03:11.080 weren't negative comments. There were. And again, I believe people can have their own personal

01:03:15.760 religious liberty and come from things from a different perspective than I do. But I would also

01:03:20.640 say that, uh, you make a really good point that, you know, virtually anyone, any heterosexual couple

01:03:26.620 can have kids literally off a one night stand. And we don't have to go into the litany of horrible

01:03:32.240 things that children can be born into, whether it's a crack addicted kid or an abusive father or

01:03:38.060 a negligent mother, or just all of the, on the imaginable. And I would say unimaginable things

01:03:44.260 that can happen. Um, that isn't to say that I don't think, and David doesn't think that, that the

01:03:49.500 role of the mother is vitally important, vitally important. And families can still look a little

01:03:56.120 bit different and, and be perfectly good and functioning. Uh, we're going to have David's

01:04:00.640 mom move down with us for a couple of months. His sister is going to move down here. Who was,

01:04:05.480 has been a nanny for young toddlers, young children before my sister, who I was talking about before

01:04:10.920 just moved to Miami. She's actually pregnant with her third right now, uh, do the day before

01:04:15.900 our first is born. So we are going to have, my mom's going to be down as much as possible.

01:04:20.060 So we're going to have strong women and strong female influences to teach us some of this stuff.

01:04:24.440 And then some of this is also related to gender roles, which are real. You know, there are men,

01:04:29.820 generally men like things and women like people, but there are men who are very nurturing and there

01:04:35.300 are women who are not very nurturing. David happens to be very nurturing. I don't know that I'm going

01:04:39.980 to be the most nurturing, but we're going to try to fill in all of those pieces and create the,

01:04:44.800 the happiest, most loving, uh, safest. Cause I think that's what you want to create, not a safe space,

01:04:50.260 but a safe place for your child to thrive and grow up to be the best as possible. But I'm not saying

01:04:55.500 it's not a little different and a little weird. And by the way, I don't have a lot of models for

01:04:59.360 this. I, you know, I've really only really one or two sets of friends that are gay, that have kids.

01:05:04.480 Um, and we're going to try to learn a little bit from them, but I don't need to learn from gay

01:05:08.520 parents. I can learn from straight parents and we're going to do the best that we can.

01:05:12.120 Mm-hmm. I think that's great. I think, I do think, you know, having a role model is important,

01:05:16.960 right? Like that's one of the things I like about being in my marriage with Doug, male, female,

01:05:21.620 obviously is, um, you know, they, they get different things from him than they get from me,

01:05:25.840 but we're not totally like traditional on our gender roles either. You know what I mean? Like,

01:05:30.780 obviously I've got this more public facing career where I, I don't think I've said before,

01:05:35.880 I know Doug doesn't mind me saying I'm the primary wage earner in the relationship.

01:05:39.240 I wasn't always when I met him, I borrowed money off of him. I couldn't move into my New York

01:05:45.100 city department. They needed first month and last month in security department. I didn't have it.

01:05:48.660 Ah, they get you, they get you in New York.

01:05:50.920 They get you. It was a lot anyway. So back then I was borrowing money from him, but

01:05:54.300 whatever. My point is like non-traditional, uh, now currently in that way. Um, it works. It's fine.

01:06:00.720 I do. I like the idea of bringing in strong women just so that these young boys then have,

01:06:04.800 they have the model. They can see there it is. And you get different things from a nurturing mom

01:06:09.220 than you get from a nurturing dad. So I think that's a good, that's a good workaround.

01:06:13.540 But the notion that you just shouldn't do it, uh, because you're in a gay relationship is absurd to

01:06:19.940 me. And the notion of like, I get the problem of creating embryos that, that then are there.

01:06:25.580 And I have to tell you, and I've told you this before I did IVF on all three of my pregnancies

01:06:31.320 and I really wrestled with that. You know, like I'm Catholic, but I wouldn't describe myself as

01:06:37.820 like religious, but there's no question to me, you're creating a life there. And now what,

01:06:43.500 you know, it's like, my God, at some point I'm going to be forced to make a decision about those.

01:06:48.020 I lucked out in that. I wound up using all of my embryos that were usable. I mean,

01:06:52.820 some in this sort of process don't, don't make it through. Um, and that's a blessing because

01:06:58.100 they're not all genetically well, and they're not all genetically meant to go forward, but

01:07:02.020 I tried. So what about that piece of it? It's a Megan, it's a totally great question.

01:07:07.520 And by the way, the, it doesn't need, we don't have to mention the person that the tweet that

01:07:11.080 you just read about the 18 embryos, but first off, you just acknowledge part of it. Not all

01:07:15.880 of them survive. That's just part of the process. So it's not like we're sitting on all of these

01:07:20.400 embryos at the moment. That's just one little piece. And I don't want to get into every specific

01:07:24.600 little piece of this, but this does bring up all sorts of deeply religious, personal,

01:07:30.240 philosophical issues. So yes, if you have, if you do, if you believe as a, as a human being,

01:07:36.580 if you believe that the moment that the sperm meets the egg and you now have, you know,

01:07:41.760 you have a blastocyst, but eventually you have an embryo, you know, those first few days and

01:07:45.700 really for the first week, you just have cells multiplying. Now I don't deny that that is the

01:07:50.720 genesis of life. If we are to believe that life begins at some point, and it obviously does,

01:07:55.000 then that's really the only marker for that. Um, to me personally, and this is where

01:07:59.700 politics and belief and religion all come in collision with, with each other. And you have

01:08:04.160 to do what is right for you. Ultimately, to me, there is a huge difference between taking a

01:08:11.480 blastocyst at two days, the cells that are multiplying that has no form, obviously no

01:08:17.160 heartbeat, no organs, no consciousness, nothing like that. Um, and whether that was to continue

01:08:23.760 to become a baby or not, that is extremely different than say a 20 week abortion. I would

01:08:29.260 say it's actually quite different than even a 12 week abortion. Uh, so even though I am,

01:08:33.860 I am pro choice to some degree, um, I I'm, I'm, I'm very strict with that. I really am. And I'm,

01:08:41.560 I am okay with some of these laws that the Republican States have been pushing through because

01:08:45.340 unfortunately the Democrats have gone so crazy with this and are okay with eight month abortions and

01:08:51.260 post birth abortions. I mean, some really weird stuff. All that being said, that's a legitimate

01:08:56.580 conversation to have. If everyone can do it in a somewhat calm manner that we're doing it in right

01:09:01.860 now. If you have three embryos through IVF, if three embryos have survived and you only want one

01:09:08.060 child, and these are in essence, you know, day or two day old embryos that are, that are cells

01:09:13.040 that are now frozen. What, what is it that you do with those? Now there's all sorts of things you can

01:09:18.100 do with those. And again, this is where I don't want to get into every personal decision that we're

01:09:21.640 making. You can give those embryos to other couples that can't get, uh, have kids naturally.

01:09:26.440 There are, there are heterosexual couples that for whatever reason, either through the woman's eggs

01:09:31.660 or the male sperm or both cannot get pregnant, but the woman could carry a kid. You could donate

01:09:36.500 that embryo. There's all sorts of things you can do. It's not just immediately that you have to,

01:09:41.420 uh, discard those embryos. So these are important discussions to have in a way, although it's been a

01:09:47.020 little bit of a headache to, to talk about this because it does feel personal, but I am a public

01:09:51.900 person to whatever extent I am. Um, if I've helped open up some of the door on some of this

01:09:56.620 so that, you know, some of your listeners can really think about these issues, that's totally

01:10:01.380 fine. Yeah. Well, it's like, there's, you know, you could, you could have a debate about the IUD,

01:10:06.960 right? Like that baby, the IUD gets, it gets rid of a fertilized embryo. I mean, a fertilized egg

01:10:13.560 inside the woman's uterus, there are a lot of pro-life people who are against the IUD. They

01:10:17.500 understand that perfectly well, but there are some people who would call themselves pro-life who

01:10:21.740 are like, Hmm, that's different the day after pill, right? Like where that's basically you've

01:10:26.960 gotten pregnant and you want to get rid of that embryo before it turns into, you know, something

01:10:31.880 more. Um, well, that's why I'm saying that that's why I'm saying the distinction, right? So this is

01:10:38.580 where, so I actually don't fully know. I think I know your position on this mostly. I don't fully,

01:10:42.920 and obviously you don't have to say anything you don't want to say, but if you had had,

01:10:45.880 when you guys were going through this and I know how difficult it is and how long it takes and all

01:10:49.540 of that stuff, but if you had had one embryo leftover, that was a viable embryo. Did you guys fully

01:10:54.760 have that conversation as to what you were going to do? And did you and Doug agree on what you were

01:10:58.640 going to do? Cause a lot of couples don't agree on that. And then that only had one left. We would

01:11:02.340 have, we would have put it in. Like we, we would have kept going. Um, I mean, I was getting to like

01:11:06.060 as old as Methuselah. So at some point somebody was going to say, we can't put another one in you,

01:11:11.840 ma'am, madam, if you could take your, your reading glasses off and put your gray haired wig to the

01:11:16.720 side, you could hear me better. The answer is no, but we would have done it for sure. But like the,

01:11:21.660 the, the fear was that, you know, when you're going into the process that you're going to wind up with

01:11:25.500 five, you know, sitting there five. Right. And it's like, well, there are limits to what I'm

01:11:29.780 willing to do and capable of doing physically. Um, and thank God I I'm, I'm very glad I didn't

01:11:37.380 have to make that decision, but I have to say, if that had been the outcome, I wouldn't have

01:11:41.480 regretted doing what I did. I wouldn't have said this was a bad decision. It just would have been

01:11:46.200 a painful decision at the end. I don't think I could see my and Doug's child grow up with someone

01:11:53.560 else. I don't think I could ever donate my embryo. Um, I don't think I could donate it to science.

01:12:00.260 I think probably I would have wound up like letting it defrost, you know, that's sort of an

01:12:05.720 option that you have, but I, I don't know. Cause it's my God. It's like, you think about it in the

01:12:11.420 abstract, like life, when does it begin? Whose is it? And then you think about it, like, that's my

01:12:16.000 child. That's another Yates or Yardley or Thatcher. Like all you want is to make it happen. Like put

01:12:23.960 it in there. And with all mine, you know, I put in as like as many as were safe just so that I could

01:12:28.620 sort of make sure I got pregnant and not have this problem, but it not for everybody's is lucky when

01:12:34.100 you play the numbers game, you can just wind up with a lot. So I appreciate the situation. I, it is

01:12:38.840 not my judgment that I'm asking you about in any way, shape. It's just, you know, I've read it on

01:12:43.100 the internet, but anyway, back to the overall point, which is 99% positive and also typical of

01:12:49.220 you being so open about it, giving us a chance to question our beliefs on it, learn a little bit

01:12:54.240 about ourselves, wrestle with stuff we hadn't wrestled with before. You love that. You're not a

01:12:58.780 judger. You don't, you're not judging your haters. And, and even though the ones who are judging you in

01:13:04.140 a cruel way, you're still allowing for the conversation and not passing your judgment back. One of the many

01:13:09.580 things I love about Dave Rubin stand by Megan, you can, you can also, you can also block your

01:13:14.480 haters, which is pretty good. You can, now you tell me where I'll send you, I'll send you,

01:13:21.100 I'll text you the instructions on how to do that. I love mute where they don't know you love. I don't

01:13:27.000 need, I don't, I think it was, um, Ray Kelly, uh, right. Police commissioner under Rudy Giuliani

01:13:33.780 for a part who said, why would you give your enemies the benefit of telling them how you feel

01:13:40.540 about them? Why would you show your actual feelings to your enemies? I'm like, Oh, that right. They

01:13:46.220 don't get to know that I blocked them. They don't get to know that they irritated me. They get to know

01:13:50.440 nothing. They don't get to know that I saw their mean tweet. They just get muted. So they can't see

01:13:55.100 anymore. Ha ha. I love it. That's very ancient Chinese proverb.

01:13:59.460 Okay. Stand by much, much more with the one and only Dave Rubin coming up.

01:14:09.540 So Dave, one of the chapters you tackle in here, it's got a lot of great life advice,

01:14:13.180 just, you know, on how people can manage this crazy world we're living in right now,

01:14:17.180 the, whether it's the woke ism or the fast pace or big tech or misinformation, actual misinformation,

01:14:21.880 not Hunter Biden's laptop, um, that's being shoved on you by the mainstream media that has an agenda

01:14:26.720 or college campuses that have an agenda and so on. And chapter three is entitled protect your brain

01:14:31.280 at all costs. And you write in here about how every August you take your digital break and it's

01:14:36.860 hardcore digital break. I mean, it's not like I just stay off email. So explain to us again,

01:14:43.160 what that looks like and what, like, what do you mean to, when you say to people protect your brain

01:14:49.140 at all costs? Yeah. You know, this is something I've done for the last five years where in August,

01:14:55.240 I quite literally lock my phone in a safe with my computer and my iPad and whatever other devices

01:15:01.480 that I have my game boy, all of it, it's gone. And I do not read the news. I do not watch the news. I

01:15:07.820 don't watch television. I don't do anything with any electronic device whatsoever. We usually go on

01:15:13.000 vacation for a little bit. So try to go somewhere in the Caribbean or something just to kind of stare out

01:15:17.020 at the ocean and exercise and eat right. And, and just detox from the endless onslaught of

01:15:24.340 information that we're all inundated with constantly. You know, we got on social media 20 years ago

01:15:29.900 thinking it would make us more social. And it was originally very cool. And you could connect with old

01:15:35.260 high school friends and all of that stuff. And 20 years later, we now know, I mean, there's plenty

01:15:40.200 of studies that prove this. It's made us more anxiety ridden. We're angrier. We're more polarized.

01:15:45.360 We doom scroll. Everyone's done this. This is when you get on Facebook or Twitter or wherever

01:15:50.240 and you just ignore all the good things, just waiting for a bad thing to happen. And then you

01:15:55.840 stop and you read the bad thing and then you move to another bad thing or just the way all of these

01:16:00.400 feeds are curated. If I'm not even on Facebook anymore, but when you're, when you're on, you know,

01:16:05.080 when I'm sitting on a plane, sometimes I'll be sitting next to someone with an iPad and you watch,

01:16:08.520 you know, you just can't stop looking at what somebody's doing. And it, none of it makes sense.

01:16:12.520 It's like baby picture terrorist attack, Donald Trump sports game, Joe Biden. And it's just this

01:16:19.500 constant attack on our ability to think clearly and, and have normal human reactions related to

01:16:26.400 things. So I did it five years ago. It was sort of a joke. Actually, the first time I was kind of

01:16:30.220 like, can I do this? Is this something that humans can possibly do? The idea of taking one day off is

01:16:36.000 very scary for people. The idea of walking outside your house for five hours without a phone

01:16:39.920 is scary for people, but I've done it for five years. I think actually totally honestly,

01:16:44.660 Megan, I think it's one of the things that has kept me sane throughout all of this, because you

01:16:50.740 and I both know a lot of people that are in the same world that we're in and it can make you kind

01:16:55.160 of crazy, you know, having to talk about politics all the time and not go crazy yourself and try to

01:17:00.700 take what can often be very depressing news and do it in a way that doesn't make people crazier and

01:17:06.920 everything else. It can make you crazy. And I think one of the ways I've been able to keep my

01:17:10.560 head on straight is by doing that disconnect so that when I come back in September and I have

01:17:15.860 somebody, maybe I'll have you do it with me if you're available in September this year.

01:17:19.820 I have somebody join me to tell me everything that I missed for the month. So Glenn Beck's done

01:17:23.920 it a couple of times and Michael Knowles and a few others, Ben Shapiro. And you know what you

01:17:27.940 realize is, although this past summer I missed Afghanistan and of course it was horrific and

01:17:33.260 the repercussions will be for years to come in terms of American foreign policy. My life went on

01:17:39.200 and I don't mean to make it everything about me, but the point is the world will continue. One day we

01:17:45.020 will all be gone. And the story that existed before us, it is going to exist after us. And I think we're

01:17:51.740 all so caught up in the minutia of the day that when I talk about protecting your brain, it's like,

01:17:56.660 give yourself a little ability, you know, in the morning, how many of your viewers right now,

01:18:01.440 we all do this. I don't do it anymore. But you know, you have your phone on your nightstand and

01:18:05.880 before you even get out of bed to have your coffee or go to the bathroom, you immediately look at the

01:18:11.060 news and maybe you lay in bed for 10 minutes with that. That's not the right way to start the day.

01:18:15.480 I try to start the day every day the same way. I usually go to the bathroom, I have a cup of coffee

01:18:20.300 and I walk my dog without my phone. And, and that is to me a great way to just reset at the beginning

01:18:26.940 of the day. And if you can figure out a few things that work for you, then I think you can actually

01:18:31.820 protect your brain. And it seems like we need that more than ever. Social media has done something

01:18:35.480 very weird to us and we all know it. By the way, if you are the one sitting next to Dave Rubin on the

01:18:40.640 flight and he's looking at your iPad, consider IP vanish.com slash MK. You definitely should. Isn't

01:18:48.340 that one of those funny things? You can't not look, you know, it could be the most boring person

01:18:53.440 and reading the most mundane nothingness. But for whatever reason, your eye is just going, man,

01:18:58.320 they doing something over there. There's something happening. My last flight, I got sucked into Curb

01:19:03.180 Your Enthusiasm's 11th season. And I am not even a little sorry. It has had me laughing out loud

01:19:11.040 hysterically. And that's a guy who I know we don't share the same politics. And I'm mad that he yelled

01:19:16.920 at poor Alan Dershowitz in Martha's Vineyard, but he's hysterical. And the show is the whole season

01:19:22.380 of very anti-woke. So I just I love it. And I had such hearty laughs on it. And the reason I put it

01:19:30.180 on was because somebody else is watching it. They were laughing. I'm like, I'm gonna give it a try.

01:19:33.460 And I'm so, so glad I did. All right. So I like that. I can I just ask you about like the beginning

01:19:38.440 in the beginning of August. Do you get like the DTs? You know, is it like, oh, yeah, like phantom phone

01:19:43.440 limb situation? Yes, literally that phantom phone thing that we all know about. I mean, think about that.

01:19:49.720 That is something that we all know that experience when you don't have your phone on you and you

01:19:53.880 oddly feel a vibration in your pocket. Isn't that a little weird? Shouldn't we be thinking

01:19:57.940 about what has happened to us that we all know about that experience? What have these devices

01:20:02.820 done to us? So it is interesting. Each year, the same thing has happened where there's a

01:20:07.360 moment, you know, when I officially literally close the safe or sometimes David closed the safe

01:20:11.740 when I know that I'm off, there's initially this first few hours of like pure joy, like here

01:20:16.400 we go. It's going to be great. And then suddenly about four hours later, or maybe a little bit

01:20:20.460 after dinner, I'm like a little, ah, what did I miss? Something must have happened. How many people

01:20:24.420 retweeted me saying goodbye for a month? You know, all this real nonsense, myopic nonsense.

01:20:30.440 Right. Exactly. And then what happens, I'll tell you one cool thing that has happened every single

01:20:34.920 time. And David, although he doesn't do a full off the grid, because in case there's an emergency

01:20:39.360 or something, he keeps a phone on him that he look, he doesn't really care about the news as much,

01:20:43.260 which is one reason we've managed to say, stay sane together, but he keeps a phone so that someone

01:20:48.140 can get in touch with us if we're away, or if there was a family emergency, something like that.

01:20:52.740 But one thing that's very cool that has happened to both of us over the time that we've done this

01:20:57.680 is about a weekend. I'll say to him, it'll, we'll just be taking a walk and I'll be like, you know,

01:21:02.640 I can remember every single word to that song that I have not heard in 10 years. Suddenly your brain

01:21:09.800 just starts organizing itself in a different way. We're constantly cluttering our brain with

01:21:14.640 nonsense. And, and even the, even things that are important. A lot of this is important, obviously.

01:21:20.060 But we're constantly inputting stuff and our brains, you know, if you think of your brain as sort of a

01:21:24.740 computer, a computer only has a certain amount of RAM, meaning the immediate storage that it has.

01:21:29.380 And then it has the long-term, the ROM storage, the long-term storage. We're constantly overloading

01:21:35.060 ourselves with all of this information. And then suddenly I'll be thinking about songs. I'll think

01:21:40.220 about a friend. Like it'll literally pop, boy, remember that kid in third grade that my friend

01:21:44.560 Stefan, I wonder whatever happened to him. That will just pop into my brain out of nowhere, where

01:21:48.440 if I wasn't disconnected, I wouldn't have time to think about that sort of thing. So there's

01:21:53.820 something going on. And I think if anyone watching this, I get, it's hard to do a month,

01:21:59.460 forget a month, try a, try a Saturday, try a Saturday. As Ben Shapiro said to me once,

01:22:04.220 when I said I was doing this, he said, you know, Dave, Orthodox Jews have been doing this for about

01:22:09.820 5,000 years. It's called Shabbat. And, and, you know, and many Christians do a version of it on

01:22:14.720 Sundays and, and, or maybe for Lent or whatever it might be. But if you can just try it once a week

01:22:20.220 for a day, you might find the results actually are pretty good. I want to do the August, end of

01:22:25.640 August thing with you, but I want to do it in like in quiz form, real or fake. Did this really happen

01:22:30.460 or am I messing with you and see how you do? No, that would be incredible because there's

01:22:35.760 almost nothing you could be make up that would be more bizarre. So that's it. We're doing it

01:22:39.720 together in September. It'd be better if Trump were still president. That would be, that would

01:22:43.400 be a better quiz with Biden. Although Biden does give us a lot of fodder. I mean, more than you

01:22:47.180 would have expected. I kind of thought that the good fodder was going to be gone with Trump,

01:22:51.000 but to the contrary, there's plenty of fodder to discuss with him. Can I ask you something as you

01:22:56.880 were talking? Cause you were alive when there were no cell phones for a, you know, a significant

01:23:00.940 portion of your youth. I was about, I've told this story before, but I was 25. I was living in

01:23:06.480 Chicago. So it was 1995, 1996. And, um, somebody was walking down the street, talking on the,

01:23:13.060 on the cell phone, like on a sidewalk. And I was like, Oh my God, what an idiot. I'm like, who,

01:23:16.960 who can't wait to get to point B, you know, from a to, to have a conversation on the phone. So I was

01:23:22.120 like, what is she doing? Like what, what's happening? And of course, now look at us now.

01:23:26.080 So we all ask ourselves, would we go back? Would you go back to a time when we didn't have the

01:23:32.820 iPhone, when the Android, whatever hadn't been invented? And we, when we were talking about

01:23:36.740 getting away, I remember as a young practicing law lawyer, we didn't have email. We did not have

01:23:42.540 email. They could, the bosses could not email us. There were, there were beepers at my first firm.

01:23:47.700 You had to wear a beeper as a young lawyer, because of course you're always have to be accessible,

01:23:51.140 but we all used to take cruises for our vacations because you couldn't, they couldn't get you on

01:23:56.240 the cruise. Like the beeper wouldn't, nothing would work. So you just go away. Like there was

01:24:00.380 a place to go where you were unreachable and it was awesome. But I know you've got, you know,

01:24:05.760 big chapter in the book talking about how the work week has changed. It's changed for the better.

01:24:11.300 And, and it wouldn't have changed if we didn't have the invention of the phone, the, you know,

01:24:15.100 the iPhone, the Android, whatever. So what do you think? Were we better off before?

01:24:19.880 Man, it's really hard to say, you know, all of these devices that we have in the access to

01:24:24.320 technology and all of these things, they're, they're tools in a certain respect. You know,

01:24:28.180 if you think about it, you could think about it sort of like fire. The phone in some ways is like

01:24:32.200 fire. Fire is quite extraordinary in that it can heat your home and you can cook food on it.

01:24:36.860 It could also burn your home down and kill you if it's out of control. And that's sort of what these

01:24:41.800 things are. You have to manage your relationship with your phone, with your computer, your iPad,

01:24:46.040 and the entire thing. So I don't know that I would turn back time so that none of these things were

01:24:51.340 existed. I mean, you know, I, I live a pretty full life that is obviously very connected to all of

01:24:57.520 these devices. So I, I wouldn't turn that away. I think perhaps we should have thought about it a

01:25:05.180 little bit more. We should have been a little more thoughtful in the way we integrated all of this

01:25:10.020 technology to our life and maybe had a little bit more of an understanding of what these tech

01:25:14.760 companies were going to do and listening to us and sorting through our information, the algorithms.

01:25:19.020 But in retrospect, there's no way we could have ever known what was going to happen here. And we all

01:25:23.080 kind of do things and we go with the tide and all that stuff. It's funny. You mentioned 1995 and,

01:25:28.440 and beepers and phones and all that. I remember in 1995, I was a sophomore in college

01:25:34.180 and a kid down the hall in the dorm was yelling because he was on, I think he was saying he was

01:25:40.880 on the internet. Maybe he was saying the worldwide web, something. And he's yelling about it. Now,

01:25:45.040 before that we had a man, I sound old right now, but we had text email and I don't even remember

01:25:50.020 that I ever used it. I remember I got to college. They gave us an email address. I didn't even know

01:25:53.000 what that meant really. But now I'm a sophomore. This kid is yelling down the hallway. I'm on the

01:25:57.620 internet. I'm on the internet. We all run into his room. He's sitting there on the computer

01:26:02.020 and I'll never forget it. It says Yankees three Royals one. And there's a picture of the Yankees

01:26:07.460 logo and a picture of the Royals logo. And just like you, when you saw that guy with the phone,

01:26:11.940 I remember thinking, this is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Meaning like if I cared about this

01:26:17.580 and I was a baseball fan at the time, you could watch sports center that night and you'd find out

01:26:21.560 what the score was. But now think about that, Megan. We're not that old, right? We're pretty hip.

01:26:26.920 We get what's going on here. You're having two babies. But look what has happened to the world in,

01:26:30.520 in basically 25 years. It's, it's unrecognizable. Yes. I I'm thinking now,

01:26:36.400 like same with the internet for sure. Back then it was like, what is this crazy thing? I remember

01:26:41.360 when I was first thinking about getting into journalism, my friend Meredith was giving me a

01:26:45.640 tour at her news station. She worked for WMAQ, which is the NBC O and O in Chicago. And she walked

01:26:51.080 me around and we saw, I met some of the reporters. Very exciting. I was still practicing law, but I was

01:26:55.200 thinking about getting out. And, um, she went out on a date with somebody and, uh, she was like,

01:27:00.520 I Googled him and I found something. And I'm like, what does that mean? What do you mean? You,

01:27:06.020 what does that mean? You Googled him? You Googled him. You usually do that after the date.

01:27:10.240 You know, she explained, I had never heard that term before, like that you could do that. And this is,

01:27:14.620 you know, I guess that would have been closer to, that was more like 2001 by that. So 2001,

01:27:20.060 one where I was still asking that question when I joined Fox in 2004, yeah, it was fall of 2004.

01:27:28.060 We were covering the 60 minutes debacle on the George W. Bush, uh, national guard service.

01:27:36.400 Remember the thing that brought down Dan rather fake news. And, um, I was doing the hits all day

01:27:44.060 on Saturday and Sunday cause I was new as I had the crappy shifts and I, I didn't screw something

01:27:49.580 up, but I, I missed something that was available to, and, and Brit Hume wanted it to have been in

01:27:54.460 my report and I had missed it. And he was like, you got to come to understand the internet.

01:28:00.800 There's so much great information on here. Like this is going to be the future. This is,

01:28:04.720 we're going to be getting so much information off of this, off of the internet. And so this is any

01:28:08.640 kind of, this is Brit Hume, who's actually very tech savvy. He's always, always,

01:28:11.900 he loves technology. So he's kind of one of those older guys who's always ahead and he's kind of

01:28:16.020 showing me how to go on the internet and figure out to get information. This is like 2004. Again,

01:28:21.140 it was a little behind my time, but that it wasn't that long ago, Dave. And I don't, somehow he managed

01:28:26.580 to make it work. Somehow the clocks still hit 12 twice a day. And I still made all my, you know,

01:28:32.500 necessary appointments. And I have to say, I think I was like, I think my serenity

01:28:38.560 was happier net net. I think I was a happier person without the devices than I, than I've been

01:28:46.740 since they were introduced. I think that's very possible. I think everyone struggles with this

01:28:51.640 to some degree. And I think everyone at some level is like, man, I wish I could just get off all of

01:28:56.160 these things altogether. Look at the way misinformation has spread and lies have spread.

01:28:59.940 And even the fact that, you know, people like us, we can now debunk the nonsense that the mainstream

01:29:05.240 is constantly pushing. It's like, unless we have solutions for that, all that will lead

01:29:09.860 is for people to be depressed, which actually sort of is why I wrote this book. It's like,

01:29:14.360 we can, we can debunk all this stuff all day long and you can show people, no, they lied about Russia

01:29:18.780 collusion and Brett Kavanaugh wasn't a serial rape. And you can do all of these things. But then at the

01:29:23.660 end, if the conclusion for people is, oh boy, the machine is lying to me all the time, but I can't do

01:29:28.380 anything about it. Well, then what did technology actually do it? It, it, it exposed something that left us

01:29:33.660 with no answers. That's why I'm trying to figure out, and I don't have all of them, obviously,

01:29:37.280 but I'm trying to figure out what some of the answers are. But I suspect that the answer that

01:29:41.920 you're looking for, that I'm looking for is that you have to incorporate it in your life in a way

01:29:46.760 that makes sense. And some parents, you know, hand the iPad to the kid at dinner and don't talk to

01:29:51.520 them at all. And then they scroll TikTok all day. And now we know that TikTok is causing all problems,

01:29:55.960 you know, all sorts of problems with attention spans and God knows what else TikTok's doing

01:29:59.920 related to the gender stuff that they don't allow in China, but in our American TikTok is here

01:30:04.380 and very prominently featured. But, but everyone has to make a choice for themselves. What will your

01:30:10.080 relationship, that's really what the chapter is about. What will your relationship with these

01:30:13.980 things be? It can be very unhealthy. You can watch porn 10 hours a day. If you want, you can,

01:30:18.540 and some people do, or you can do research all day long or learn, learn all sorts of incredible

01:30:24.220 things. I mean, go watch lectures from the, from the greatest thinkers of all time that are on YouTube.

01:30:27.840 That's wonderful. But, but even that, do you want to do that 15 hours a day? Or do you want to go

01:30:32.380 out and do something? I mean, we have to just think about how we want to live our lives to the best of

01:30:36.960 our ability. But often the, the noise and speed of this thing actually stops us from doing that.

01:30:42.720 Be mindful, be mindful. One other thing before we go, you've got a chapter called shake hands with

01:30:48.920 your neighbors and you talk about the American dream. That was a term coined, you write by author,

01:30:54.100 James Trislow Adams, 1931 book, the Epic of America. And I, I love this, this quote, the dream

01:31:01.300 has not been a dream of material plenty, though that has doubtlessly counted heavily. It has been

01:31:06.200 a dream of being able to grow to fullest development as a man and woman unhampered by the barriers,

01:31:12.320 which had slowly been erected in the older civilizations, unrepressed by social orders,

01:31:17.180 which had developed for the benefit of classes, rather than for the simple human being of any and

01:31:22.520 every class. And it's just a good reminder, right? Like grow to the fullest development as a man and

01:31:29.120 a woman unhampered by the barriers, which has slowly been erected. It's not about money. It's

01:31:34.280 not about followers. It's not about likes. It's about growth. And as you also make the point elsewhere in

01:31:40.360 the book, um, certitude being poisonous. When you're certain of everything, you can never learn

01:31:46.140 anything. Take in ideas, stay curious, think critically. It's up to you to figure out what you

01:31:51.560 believe. Get information, strive valiantly, not for money, but for fulfillment, right? For richness

01:31:59.120 in one's life and one's choices like family. All right. I stole the last word, Dave Rubin.

01:32:04.440 Uh, you've got to get the book. It's called Don't Burn This Country. We want to support Dave,

01:32:09.540 who's been very brave in offering his views, personal, professional, not just today, but every

01:32:14.120 day, surviving and thriving in our woke dystopia. Thank you for being here, my friend.

01:32:18.220 Thank you, my friend. See you soon. I'll see you in West Nyack on April 26th.

01:32:23.920 I'll be there. Don't miss the show tomorrow. James O'Keefe is here with new info on the way

01:32:28.900 the feds allegedly spied on him. See you then. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:32:35.040 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - April 12, 2022

Free Speech Suppression, Woke Cultural Drift, and Becoming a Parent, with Dave Rubin ｜ Ep. 298

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