The Megyn Kelly Show - Gad Saad on Victimhood, Fighting Back Against the Tyranny of the Minority, and the Differences Between Men and Women

00:00:00.000 When I found out my friend got a great deal

00:00:02.160 on a wool coat from Winners,

00:00:03.760 I started wondering,

00:00:05.440 is every fabulous item I see from Winners?

00:00:08.560 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans.

00:00:11.260 Are those from Winners?

00:00:12.780 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings?

00:00:15.260 Did she pay full price?

00:00:16.600 Or that leather tote?

00:00:17.620 Or that cashmere sweater?

00:00:18.840 Or those knee-high boots?

00:00:20.280 That dress?

00:00:21.060 That jacket?

00:00:21.740 Those shoes?

00:00:22.760 Is anyone paying full price for anything?

00:00:25.720 Stop wondering.

00:00:26.980 Start winning.

00:00:27.920 Winners.

00:00:28.500 Find fabulous for less.

00:00:30.720 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:32.540 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:42.060 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:43.640 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.320 Today, gad sad.

00:00:47.940 Oh, you're gonna love this hour and a half.

00:00:50.920 I don't know how long it was.

00:00:51.800 It was wonderful.

00:00:52.580 Time flew.

00:00:53.620 It could have been two minutes.

00:00:55.140 My team and I were just laughing

00:00:56.240 because it was like a comedy routine.

00:00:57.580 It was like improv,

00:00:58.520 but it was deep and it was profound

00:01:00.240 and he was so insightful on so many issues.

00:01:02.400 And if you don't already love gad,

00:01:04.240 you're about to.

00:01:05.440 So prepare to add another hero to your roster

00:01:07.680 because he is among the best and brightest

00:01:10.540 of the people I've ever spoken to.

00:01:12.380 Gosh, listen to his story

00:01:13.640 and listen to the lessons he's learned

00:01:15.440 and where he stands now.

00:01:16.800 A guy sitting in the middle of academia.

00:01:19.160 He's a university professor of all things.

00:01:22.120 He's actually a professor of marketing

00:01:24.920 at Concordia University up in Canada

00:01:27.220 with Canadian Debbie.

00:01:28.580 And he is what's called

00:01:29.860 an evolutionary behavioral scientist.

00:01:32.440 He's gonna explain what that means

00:01:33.620 and it's actually really cool.

00:01:34.820 And it's gonna involve at some point

00:01:36.240 your middle finger and your ring finger

00:01:38.260 and you just have to stand by

00:01:39.320 to see what I mean by that.

00:01:40.780 Most importantly to me,

00:01:42.800 he is the author of the amazing

00:01:44.480 and very well worth your time book,

00:01:46.500 The Parasitic Mind,

00:01:48.520 How Infectious Ideas Are Killing Common Sense.

00:01:52.300 And he hosts a very popular YouTube show

00:01:54.200 called The Sad Truth,

00:01:55.540 sad spelled S-A-A-D, like his last name.

00:01:58.160 So however you can get gad,

00:01:59.680 you should take him.

00:02:00.640 And you should certainly take him

00:02:01.740 in the interview that we're about to bring to you.

00:02:03.620 And all I can say is you're welcome.

00:02:06.400 Enjoy, one minute away.

00:02:13.580 Gad, how are you?

00:02:14.900 Oh, so good to be with you, Megan.

00:02:17.500 I am thrilled to be talking to you.

00:02:19.580 What a fan I am of yours.

00:02:21.240 This is exciting.

00:02:22.600 Likewise.

00:02:23.280 You know, I tell you,

00:02:23.980 I speak to a lot of interesting people,

00:02:25.620 but none have triggered as much excitement

00:02:27.540 as waiting to speak to you.

00:02:28.860 So there you go.

00:02:29.680 Oh, thank you for that so much.

00:02:32.340 Well, it's funny because I had read your words

00:02:34.680 long before I started to actually hear you saying them.

00:02:37.900 And I didn't realize how funny you are.

00:02:41.040 You are hysterical.

00:02:42.800 Have you always been funny?

00:02:44.320 I mean, has this been something you grew up with?

00:02:46.580 I did, actually.

00:02:47.680 I remember my mother always saying,

00:02:51.880 not only that I was funny,

00:02:53.240 but that I have,

00:02:53.900 there's an expression in Arabic

00:02:55.100 where you have this kind of very sharp irony

00:02:58.520 and satire to you.

00:03:00.200 So, you know,

00:03:00.920 I remember being 11 and 12 years old,

00:03:03.260 you know,

00:03:03.540 saying things that would make everybody shake their heads,

00:03:05.760 if not crack up.

00:03:06.540 So it's been with me for a while.

00:03:07.820 Yes.

00:03:08.420 One of the things that's so funny about it is

00:03:10.280 you really are a deep thinking intellectual

00:03:13.180 and have all the academic credentials

00:03:15.740 and lifetime experience to back it up.

00:03:17.900 But you are not afraid

00:03:19.740 to just be the silly guy to make a point.

00:03:22.480 You know,

00:03:22.680 we were laughing before the show

00:03:24.220 because we were looking at one of your videos of,

00:03:26.020 you were,

00:03:26.840 you shot it while underneath a desk

00:03:29.140 talking about people who are so terrified

00:03:31.800 of the orange man.

00:03:33.100 You know,

00:03:33.260 I've been down here,

00:03:34.280 orange Hitler or something,

00:03:35.700 but I can't remember how you put it.

00:03:37.240 You know,

00:03:37.480 I thought it'd be okay to come out

00:03:38.580 now that Joe Biden won.

00:03:40.400 And you just have this clever way

00:03:42.420 of sort of putting the lie

00:03:43.720 to some of these claims we hear

00:03:45.100 from these lunatics

00:03:46.400 on the far left woke side of things

00:03:49.400 that makes me laugh

00:03:51.080 in a world in which we want to cry.

00:03:53.460 Thank you for saying that.

00:03:54.600 You know,

00:03:54.960 I often get from,

00:03:56.600 you know,

00:03:57.040 highfalutin ivory tower dwelling colleagues

00:03:59.720 saying to me,

00:04:01.460 but, you know,

00:04:02.200 don't you think it damages your brand

00:04:05.260 by, you know,

00:04:05.820 not always being professorial?

00:04:07.560 And that is exactly what someone

00:04:09.360 who doesn't have a strong sense

00:04:10.940 of personhood would say, right?

00:04:12.820 I don't need to always be,

00:04:14.640 you know,

00:04:14.980 smoking a pipe while,

00:04:16.420 you know,

00:04:17.000 pontificating in the air

00:04:18.300 to know that I am a professor,

00:04:20.180 right?

00:04:20.460 I am multifaceted.

00:04:21.960 I'm the jokester.

00:04:23.200 I'm the dad.

00:04:24.440 I'm the serious guy in the classroom.

00:04:26.800 So we're all multifaceted creatures,

00:04:29.140 but it's only those who are insecure

00:04:30.440 about their personhood

00:04:31.440 that always try to display to the world

00:04:34.060 one aspect of their personhood.

00:04:35.800 And I'm not,

00:04:36.340 I'm simply not like that.

00:04:37.120 I am authentic to a fault.

00:04:39.460 I love that.

00:04:40.840 I,

00:04:41.120 I,

00:04:41.480 I think I can relate.

00:04:42.900 I,

00:04:43.160 I've always used humor,

00:04:44.800 sometimes weird humor.

00:04:46.180 It's just who I am.

00:04:47.380 And,

00:04:47.900 um,

00:04:48.360 I was told by a very famous,

00:04:49.880 well-known female anchor one time,

00:04:51.860 don't do that.

00:04:52.680 Humor is very dangerous.

00:04:53.640 I wouldn't do that.

00:04:54.640 And I was also told by O'Reilly of all people,

00:04:57.380 never share anything about yourself personally,

00:05:00.000 anything.

00:05:00.660 And I,

00:05:01.420 I blew off both of those pieces of advice.

00:05:04.160 And I think wisely,

00:05:05.920 right?

00:05:06.280 Because it's like,

00:05:06.900 if you don't give the audience anything to connect to,

00:05:08.940 um,

00:05:10.040 whether you're in your business or mine,

00:05:12.140 what's the point?

00:05:13.520 So true.

00:05:14.420 Listen,

00:05:14.700 I get,

00:05:15.160 I mean,

00:05:15.380 I'm,

00:05:15.720 I'm,

00:05:15.900 I'm sure you get probably approached more than I do,

00:05:18.640 but I get approached all the time on the street and I'm always amazed how much people know about me.

00:05:25.300 Right.

00:05:25.480 So,

00:05:25.660 I mean,

00:05:25.780 if,

00:05:26.320 if my beloved Belgian shepherd has,

00:05:28.920 has passed away and I was mourning now,

00:05:30.980 of course I shared this information on,

00:05:32.900 on my social media,

00:05:33.720 but someone will come up and commiserate with me.

00:05:37.100 Oh,

00:05:37.220 you know,

00:05:37.400 I'm really sorry to hear about your dog.

00:05:38.780 And so by you creating a,

00:05:41.140 a,

00:05:41.500 a,

00:05:41.780 you know,

00:05:42.020 a,

00:05:42.280 a personal touch with the people who follow you,

00:05:45.100 it only adds to the intimacy of your words.

00:05:47.840 And so I think,

00:05:48.680 uh,

00:05:48.960 contrary to those who told you otherwise,

00:05:50.580 I think you've done well by ignoring their advice.

00:05:54.700 Well,

00:05:55.180 the,

00:05:55.400 the woman turned out not to be my friend at all.

00:05:57.820 And actually he's kind of out of the business now.

00:05:59.580 So there I had the last laugh on that one.

00:06:01.760 Cause I don't think she's doing,

00:06:03.560 she's doing any sort of reporting or journalism in any way now.

00:06:05.920 Okay.

00:06:06.440 Um,

00:06:06.900 so let me,

00:06:07.440 let me start with this.

00:06:08.320 Cause I think news wise,

00:06:09.780 this is the thing that's,

00:06:10.580 that jumped out at me when I was reading up on,

00:06:12.260 you what's up with Instagram permanently banned.

00:06:15.820 Gad sad.

00:06:16.580 Is that true?

00:06:17.660 And you believe that?

00:06:18.880 I mean,

00:06:19.020 you would only think photos of me would increase their power,

00:06:22.920 but then here they go again.

00:06:24.520 No,

00:06:24.660 but in all seriousness,

00:06:25.520 I was actually a company that I've just signed with to license my show,

00:06:31.660 pop TV.

00:06:32.760 They were the ones who said,

00:06:34.000 Hey,

00:06:34.380 you know,

00:06:34.740 you have a large social media following,

00:06:36.720 but why aren't you on Instagram?

00:06:38.100 And so my answer was,

00:06:39.160 well,

00:06:39.240 I didn't think really it was for me,

00:06:41.580 but they insisted that I get on.

00:06:43.660 So this past Sunday,

00:06:44.740 I wake up in the morning and I say,

00:06:46.620 you know what?

00:06:46.980 Let me start dabbling with Instagram.

00:06:48.700 So I create an Instagram account within two hours.

00:06:52.420 It's gone.

00:06:53.860 I have no idea why I try to reach them.

00:06:56.140 I try to pull all my connections to find out why it happened.

00:06:59.580 No idea why it happened.

00:07:00.760 So I waited two days,

00:07:02.380 started a new account.

00:07:03.880 And luckily after 48 hours,

00:07:05.680 I'm proud to tell you that it's still up.

00:07:08.580 Well,

00:07:08.720 did they ever explain why?

00:07:10.920 Nothing.

00:07:11.600 Zero.

00:07:12.240 Never heard from them.

00:07:14.220 Hmm.

00:07:15.720 That's suspicious.

00:07:17.380 You know,

00:07:17.660 it's like,

00:07:18.000 I do think that there are organized campaigns against people who have taken,

00:07:22.220 you know,

00:07:22.740 strong views against wool culture to get your microphone taken away,

00:07:26.880 whether it's via Instagram or otherwise,

00:07:28.400 they just,

00:07:28.960 they want to silence your voice and they've become pretty sneaky and pretty

00:07:31.640 effective at it.

00:07:33.140 Oh yeah.

00:07:33.520 I mean,

00:07:33.740 listen,

00:07:34.060 I've had also,

00:07:35.420 I mean,

00:07:35.640 my,

00:07:35.980 my YouTube clips are often demonetized until I then have to file an

00:07:40.860 appeal where they do a manual review.

00:07:42.600 And to their credit,

00:07:43.740 they more often than not reverse the demonetization.

00:07:46.460 I've had linked in posts censored.

00:07:50.180 So for example,

00:07:50.840 when I once said,

00:07:52.900 you know,

00:07:53.580 Joe Biden,

00:07:54.700 this was before he became president.

00:07:56.360 You know,

00:07:56.940 Joe Biden hasn't done anything for 47 years,

00:07:59.560 but you know,

00:08:00.300 once he becomes president,

00:08:01.220 that's when you're going to really see his productivity.

00:08:03.500 That was construed as harassment and bullying.

00:08:07.320 So a professor in the 21st century cannot make a very tepid

00:08:12.520 pronouncement about an incoming president because that's harassment.

00:08:16.460 Harassment to whom?

00:08:17.600 To him.

00:08:18.600 So,

00:08:18.840 you know,

00:08:19.420 this whole social media stuff is insane.

00:08:21.060 I mean,

00:08:21.220 you're the lawyer.

00:08:22.180 There has to be some legal way by which we,

00:08:24.440 we remedy this nonsense.

00:08:26.340 There,

00:08:26.880 there is,

00:08:27.560 there are a couple of avenues available to us.

00:08:29.460 And I do think within five years and certainly 10,

00:08:32.260 we're going to be looking back saying,

00:08:33.360 remember that weird time when we just turned over American speech to Mark

00:08:37.720 Zuckerberg and didn't complain about it.

00:08:40.220 You know,

00:08:40.380 I think we're just now at the awakening on many levels about what these tech

00:08:44.520 giants have done to our lives and the pushback.

00:08:47.220 I don't think it's in full swing yet,

00:08:48.700 but it's starting.

00:08:50.020 Amen.

00:08:51.300 Yeah.

00:08:51.520 Let's hope.

00:08:52.640 So I,

00:08:53.740 here's one of the things I love about you,

00:08:55.300 because I can really relate that you're a free spirit,

00:08:57.840 you're a free thinker and anything that tries to sort of tamp down on the way

00:09:01.940 you think or speak about things drives you nuts.

00:09:05.700 It makes you feel like neck under the boot.

00:09:09.120 And that's when you get fiery because you're affable and you're funny,

00:09:12.680 but you're also fiery.

00:09:14.300 And if you get pushed too far,

00:09:15.300 you'll fight.

00:09:16.000 I,

00:09:16.320 I relate to all of that so fully gad,

00:09:19.640 but I will tell you,

00:09:21.260 you've done something I don't think I could ever do,

00:09:23.040 which is how does a man like that make a career in academia?

00:09:29.000 Well,

00:09:29.620 well,

00:09:30.220 first,

00:09:30.700 thank you so much for,

00:09:32.280 I feel as though we've known each other for 20 years because I've got

00:09:35.560 close friends that don't recognize the difference between being affable as a

00:09:39.780 default value and being a honey badger when pushed in a corner,

00:09:43.000 right?

00:09:43.180 They're very different things,

00:09:44.260 right?

00:09:45.060 You know,

00:09:45.460 I could be the most loving guy when I'm tucking my children to bed,

00:09:48.700 but I could be violent.

00:09:49.620 If you attack to mug me and rape my wife in an alley,

00:09:52.260 my disposition didn't change.

00:09:53.860 It's the situation that demands that I behave differently.

00:09:56.500 So thank you for recognizing that.

00:09:58.280 Look,

00:09:58.740 the ecosystem of academia is the absolute,

00:10:01.520 worst place to be outspoken because that's where all of the imbecilic ideas originate from,

00:10:08.040 right?

00:10:08.300 So how have I been able to do it?

00:10:10.940 I guess I have thick skin.

00:10:12.660 I also think that there's,

00:10:15.180 you know,

00:10:15.420 a unique cocktail of factors that makes it a bit more difficult,

00:10:19.120 knock on wood,

00:10:19.640 to cancel me,

00:10:20.540 perhaps because of my personal history.

00:10:23.180 You know,

00:10:23.380 I win in victimology poker or in the oppression Olympics.

00:10:26.360 So it was very hard for somebody to come at me and,

00:10:29.080 and,

00:10:29.320 you know,

00:10:29.440 give me their sob story because I'm always going to outrank you.

00:10:31.980 Um,

00:10:33.400 I'm also,

00:10:34.580 you know,

00:10:34.800 I do have a,

00:10:36.000 I think a,

00:10:36.860 as you said,

00:10:37.400 a,

00:10:37.540 a warm personality that,

00:10:39.260 you know,

00:10:39.640 uh,

00:10:40.340 makes people,

00:10:41.680 you know,

00:10:42.040 it's a bit more difficult to,

00:10:43.700 to dislike me.

00:10:44.480 I've,

00:10:44.680 I had a guy,

00:10:45.380 I won't mention who it is.

00:10:46.680 He,

00:10:47.180 he invited me on his show once.

00:10:49.380 And then at the end of the show,

00:10:50.640 he said,

00:10:50.940 you know what?

00:10:51.360 I'm pissed off at you.

00:10:52.320 I said,

00:10:52.580 why is that?

00:10:53.500 He goes,

00:10:53.860 because I had every desire to support the fact that I should hate you,

00:10:58.240 but there's just no goddamn way to hate you.

00:11:00.480 You're just such a cool guy.

00:11:02.280 So I,

00:11:03.380 so I think maybe,

00:11:04.500 you know,

00:11:04.880 the fact that I can be joking,

00:11:07.320 I can be warm.

00:11:08.840 Uh,

00:11:09.040 I don't take myself too seriously.

00:11:10.600 It makes it a bit more difficult to come after me.

00:11:13.680 I'm also tenured.

00:11:14.820 So that at least offers me some,

00:11:16.620 you know,

00:11:16.980 institutional protection belt.

00:11:19.900 If there's ever a,

00:11:21.340 a,

00:11:22.020 a justification for having tenure,

00:11:24.540 I'm the embodiment of that.

00:11:26.340 So for all sorts of reasons,

00:11:27.820 I think I've been able to survive in academia,

00:11:29.980 but I can tell you that it's,

00:11:31.540 it's very,

00:11:32.180 very difficult.

00:11:32.600 It's not good for the blood pressure because,

00:11:35.080 you know,

00:11:35.280 I have to really rise to the challenges of being an academic and

00:11:39.660 outspoken every single of every day.

00:11:41.240 I'll tell you a very quick story.

00:11:42.640 That's that hasn't yet fully materialized.

00:11:45.180 I just received yesterday an email from my university,

00:11:48.240 whereby we're going to have to take a mandatory seminar in systems of

00:11:55.100 oppression and intersectionality.

00:11:57.500 Can you imagine how that's going to go when you try to peddle that

00:12:01.220 nonsense at me?

00:12:02.100 So it's tough,

00:12:03.560 but someone's got to do it.

00:12:04.980 So here I am here.

00:12:05.860 I stand as Martin Luther said.

00:12:08.800 I can do no other.

00:12:10.280 So are you,

00:12:11.780 are you somebody like when you say you're winning the oppression Olympics,

00:12:14.260 I know you're from Lebanon originally from Beirut.

00:12:18.280 You're Jewish,

00:12:19.200 but I don't,

00:12:19.680 that doesn't count anymore.

00:12:20.720 So it can't be that.

00:12:23.340 How,

00:12:23.880 what,

00:12:24.040 what tell,

00:12:24.900 tell us a little bit about your background and what got you to this gold

00:12:27.680 medal in the oppression Olympics.

00:12:29.420 Sure.

00:12:29.760 Uh,

00:12:30.200 so I was born in,

00:12:31.920 uh,

00:12:32.100 as you said,

00:12:32.600 Beirut,

00:12:32.960 Lebanon in the sixties.

00:12:34.780 Uh,

00:12:35.200 my family were part of the last,

00:12:38.060 you know,

00:12:38.720 remaining Jews that had steadfastly refused to leave Lebanon.

00:12:43.240 I mean,

00:12:43.640 in all other middle Eastern countries,

00:12:45.320 there had been a,

00:12:46.220 uh,

00:12:47.060 you know,

00:12:47.360 an erasure of all Jews,

00:12:49.260 Iraqi Jews and Syrian Jews and,

00:12:51.460 uh,

00:12:51.800 Egyptian Jews and,

00:12:52.920 uh,

00:12:53.200 Algerian Jews and so on.

00:12:54.660 But Lebanon still had a very,

00:12:56.400 very small pocket of Jews that remained.

00:12:58.520 Most of whom had left by the time the civil war broke out in 1975.

00:13:03.860 And so we were part of that last group,

00:13:06.080 but I don't remember the exact numbers,

00:13:08.360 but you know,

00:13:09.100 well under probably a thousand Jews left in Lebanon.

00:13:12.240 And,

00:13:12.840 but when the civil war broke out,

00:13:14.260 Megan,

00:13:14.680 uh,

00:13:15.600 it was impossible at that point to be Jewish because there were an,

00:13:19.700 an endless cocktail of ways by which you were going to imminently die.

00:13:24.300 Uh,

00:13:24.740 one of which for example,

00:13:25.820 would be that if you went out into the street and were stopped,

00:13:28.520 by a militia roadblock,

00:13:31.160 the first thing that the militias would do is ask you for your internal ID

00:13:35.100 card.

00:13:35.520 In Lebanon,

00:13:35.900 you have this internal ID,

00:13:37.100 like a passport,

00:13:38.040 but for internal purposes,

00:13:39.680 domestic purposes,

00:13:40.380 and prominently displayed on that card is your religion.

00:13:45.020 And if you were stopped at a,

00:13:47.000 uh,

00:13:47.760 roadblock that was,

00:13:48.940 that had,

00:13:49.560 you know,

00:13:50.260 animus towards whichever religion you were,

00:13:53.160 then you weren't going to make it out of that roadblock and being Jewish,

00:13:56.680 there weren't too many roadblocks that you were going to make it out.

00:13:59.320 So,

00:13:59.620 so it really became impossible to be Jewish.

00:14:02.300 We were there for the first year of the civil war,

00:14:04.620 saw things and experienced things that,

00:14:06.620 uh,

00:14:06.860 no human should experience in 20 lifetimes.

00:14:09.280 But luckily we were able to move to,

00:14:12.700 to Canada and the rest is history,

00:14:14.640 as they say.

00:14:15.720 But that like,

00:14:16.780 like everything for all of us in our lives winds up shaping you in an important

00:14:21.240 way,

00:14:21.700 right?

00:14:21.980 It was like some events more,

00:14:23.300 more impactful than others.

00:14:24.720 And I think it's what eventually would give us the gift of Gadsad's mind and your take

00:14:30.720 on things and your absolute opposition to identity politics.

00:14:36.140 I mean,

00:14:36.240 there's a reason it's not just that you feel emboldened to speak out about all this

00:14:40.600 identitarianism.

00:14:42.940 It's that you must,

00:14:44.440 you clearly,

00:14:45.520 you must do it.

00:14:46.780 I can see that because there's nothing you won't touch.

00:14:50.200 There's nothing you won't say.

00:14:51.640 It doesn't matter how much pushback you get.

00:14:53.540 You don't believe in third rails of conversation.

00:14:56.300 And as I listened,

00:14:57.060 you talk about your history,

00:14:57.980 it seems very clear why that is.

00:15:00.940 I mean,

00:15:01.580 you,

00:15:01.760 you couldn't have said it better than the way you did.

00:15:05.280 Uh,

00:15:06.180 Lebanon is a,

00:15:07.760 is the perfect instantiation of what happens to a society that is organized along identity

00:15:14.080 politics,

00:15:15.020 uh,

00:15:15.580 you know,

00:15:15.780 with an ethos of identity politics,

00:15:17.100 because as I just mentioned a minute or two ago,

00:15:20.140 every,

00:15:20.960 everything is viewed through the prison.

00:15:22.700 And in the case of Lebanon,

00:15:23.820 it's not your race,

00:15:25.000 but it's what,

00:15:25.940 you know,

00:15:26.140 your religious belongingness,

00:15:27.900 right?

00:15:28.120 Which tribe do you belong to?

00:15:29.480 Are you Maronite?

00:15:30.340 Are you Shia?

00:15:31.100 Are you Sunni?

00:15:32.360 Are you Jewish in our case?

00:15:34.600 Uh,

00:15:34.960 you know,

00:15:35.220 are you Armenian?

00:15:35.980 Are you this?

00:15:36.440 Are you that?

00:15:37.200 Uh,

00:15:37.640 so even the Lebanese constitution incorporates what,

00:15:42.440 you know,

00:15:42.660 within the way,

00:15:44.180 uh,

00:15:45.080 seats are allocated in parliament based on religious belongingness.

00:15:50.020 So the president has to be of this religion.

00:15:52.460 The prime minister has to be of that religion.

00:15:54.200 There can't be more than this number of ministers or parliamentarians,

00:15:59.320 uh,

00:15:59.920 if you are of this religion.

00:16:01.020 And so everything is viewed through the prism of identity politics.

00:16:04.840 Now,

00:16:05.160 if,

00:16:05.480 again,

00:16:05.600 if you were Jewish,

00:16:06.620 you had a completely,

00:16:08.280 you know,

00:16:08.960 extra layer of challenges because,

00:16:11.240 you know,

00:16:12.180 your,

00:16:12.640 your,

00:16:13.080 uh,

00:16:13.580 viewers may not know this,

00:16:15.020 but everything in the middle East is,

00:16:18.100 uh,

00:16:19.180 viewed through the lens of the diabolical Jews.

00:16:22.560 So you,

00:16:23.920 uh,

00:16:24.420 you now have diabetes.

00:16:26.040 It's the damn Jews.

00:16:27.300 Your wife cheated on you.

00:16:28.580 Well,

00:16:29.000 who put that thought in her head?

00:16:30.240 It must've been the Jews.

00:16:31.380 It's sunny outside.

00:16:32.520 It's the Jews.

00:16:33.260 It's raining outside.

00:16:34.140 It's the Jews.

00:16:35.280 And it's everywhere.

00:16:36.320 It's when you take a taxi and the taxi driver speaks to you,

00:16:39.900 not knowing that you're Jewish.

00:16:40.940 It's in school when the teacher or your fellow students are speaking,

00:16:45.240 it's the politicians.

00:16:46.040 It's the,

00:16:46.820 it's the soap operas.

00:16:48.360 It's everywhere.

00:16:49.220 It's normalized.

00:16:50.300 And so to me,

00:16:51.580 it's so disheartening to now see that a lot of that,

00:16:55.340 that reflex where it's okay to be bigoted towards certain groups,

00:16:59.780 as it is now seems to be okay to,

00:17:01.900 to,

00:17:02.120 to hate on Jews openly.

00:17:03.740 As we saw a couple of weeks ago,

00:17:05.240 this is something that was my Tuesday in Lebanon.

00:17:09.020 And so it's really bad.

00:17:10.340 And,

00:17:10.720 uh,

00:17:11.000 the Jews are truly the canaries in the coal mine.

00:17:13.940 If we normalize this,

00:17:15.880 you're next.

00:17:17.360 Hmm.

00:17:18.180 It's,

00:17:18.560 it's kind of the real,

00:17:19.900 the big lie that,

00:17:21.840 that actually is the big lie.

00:17:23.480 What,

00:17:23.860 what,

00:17:24.100 what they say about Jews.

00:17:26.160 Yeah.

00:17:26.900 Uh,

00:17:27.420 I mean,

00:17:27.840 in,

00:17:28.120 in,

00:17:28.260 in the context of Lebanon,

00:17:29.700 you know,

00:17:30.080 the,

00:17:30.320 the,

00:17:30.540 the hatred towards the Jew might,

00:17:32.420 you know,

00:17:32.540 might present itself in a slightly different way than it does in a Western context.

00:17:37.200 Uh,

00:17:37.640 in the,

00:17:38.160 in the case of the middle East,

00:17:39.520 it,

00:17:39.740 it,

00:17:40.040 it comes from,

00:17:40.940 of course,

00:17:41.320 the noble faith that otherwise loves everyone.

00:17:45.020 Right.

00:17:45.740 Uh,

00:17:46.300 you know,

00:17:46.580 another reason,

00:17:47.620 by the way,

00:17:47.900 that I'm kind of a nightmare for a lot of the,

00:17:49.960 the blue haired people is because,

00:17:51.420 uh,

00:17:52.480 it's hard to delegitimize me.

00:17:54.540 Right.

00:17:54.720 So for example,

00:17:55.220 if I,

00:17:55.920 uh,

00:17:56.860 criticize Islam,

00:17:58.840 well,

00:18:00.020 if,

00:18:00.280 if you,

00:18:00.740 if you were to say the exact same thing,

00:18:02.560 Megan,

00:18:02.940 then they'd say,

00:18:03.720 well,

00:18:04.140 you know,

00:18:04.400 you're just a Westerner.

00:18:05.420 You know,

00:18:05.660 nothing.

00:18:06.380 Uh,

00:18:06.780 if you were,

00:18:07.480 if the,

00:18:07.880 or they could attack you by what,

00:18:09.280 you know,

00:18:09.440 you're not an Arabic speaker.

00:18:10.760 Well,

00:18:10.980 you're not from the middle East.

00:18:11.900 So,

00:18:12.500 you know,

00:18:12.780 you have to go pretty far down the lock,

00:18:15.120 the list of diligent,

00:18:16.720 delegitimization attempts before you're able to find something against me.

00:18:20.520 I've lived in the middle East.

00:18:21.600 I grew up in the middle East.

00:18:22.640 I'm an Arabic Jew.

00:18:23.580 Mother's my,

00:18:24.500 my,

00:18:24.800 uh,

00:18:25.180 Arabic is my mother tongue and on it.

00:18:27.460 I know Islam very well.

00:18:29.020 And so it becomes very,

00:18:30.640 very difficult to try to cancel me.

00:18:32.400 Even when I take on the,

00:18:33.880 the most cherished of sacred cows,

00:18:36.540 precisely because I come armed with all of the knowledge and the identity that makes it difficult to cancel me.

00:18:43.300 You know,

00:18:44.280 as you were talking,

00:18:45.100 it made me think about this weird coalition that seems to be forming on the side of reason.

00:18:50.460 And it's,

00:18:51.500 it's very diverse and it's,

00:18:53.920 it tends to include maybe an odd collection of people,

00:18:57.640 uh,

00:18:58.560 who you wouldn't see a line necessarily on things,

00:19:00.700 but you look at the people who are fighting these woke warriors or as,

00:19:03.560 as John McWhorter calls them,

00:19:04.900 the elect,

00:19:06.000 um,

00:19:06.980 a lot of Jewish people,

00:19:08.760 a lot of Asian people,

00:19:10.820 a lot of gay people,

00:19:12.540 a lot of center left leaning people.

00:19:16.360 And I think a lot of people within those coalitions who have fought for whatever cause at one point or another,

00:19:22.300 and have overcome obstacles only to now be told that none of those struggles matter because their struggle isn't the right one.

00:19:29.800 Their struggle isn't about their gender.

00:19:31.600 Their struggle isn't about their color.

00:19:33.780 Um,

00:19:34.320 or in the case of Asians,

00:19:35.640 not the right color,

00:19:36.800 right?

00:19:37.300 Close,

00:19:37.960 not quite.

00:19:39.060 And I think people have just had it,

00:19:41.100 right?

00:19:41.300 They've,

00:19:41.560 they've all had,

00:19:42.220 obstacles thrown at them that they've overcome and they don't believe that life is about skin color or lady parts or what have you.

00:19:48.880 And that's,

00:19:49.900 that's,

00:19:50.540 that's a dogma.

00:19:51.620 You,

00:19:51.900 you're not allowed to reject in today's elect society.

00:19:56.240 Yeah,

00:19:56.660 you're absolutely right.

00:19:57.460 I mean,

00:19:57.640 what I would add to what you said is that some of the staunchest defenders of the,

00:20:02.380 you know,

00:20:02.600 the foundational values that define the beauty of the West are usually immigrants such as myself.

00:20:08.700 So,

00:20:08.980 I mean,

00:20:09.200 if I were to plug another person,

00:20:10.580 I'm not sure if you've spoken to her or not yet,

00:20:12.880 but,

00:20:13.160 uh,

00:20:13.660 you know,

00:20:13.920 Ayaan Hirsi Ali,

00:20:14.940 right?

00:20:15.520 It usually,

00:20:16.940 yeah,

00:20:17.200 she's lovely.

00:20:17.840 She's fantastic.

00:20:18.800 Uh,

00:20:19.120 you know,

00:20:19.640 it,

00:20:19.940 it usually takes someone who's,

00:20:22.080 who's sampled at the buffet of all possible societies to then warn the West that you really have it really,

00:20:29.440 really good where,

00:20:30.740 where you live.

00:20:31.300 Right.

00:20:31.540 It's a,

00:20:32.140 it,

00:20:32.460 the West is an anomaly in the,

00:20:34.480 you know,

00:20:34.780 in the history of,

00:20:35.840 of,

00:20:36.420 uh,

00:20:36.680 of humanity,

00:20:37.920 right?

00:20:38.840 Uh,

00:20:39.320 all of this,

00:20:40.220 these incredible,

00:20:41.000 uh,

00:20:41.720 values that define the liberating framework of the West is not something that we see very often in,

00:20:48.160 in,

00:20:48.300 in throughout history.

00:20:49.160 And so it takes someone like me or someone like Ayaan and a few others to say,

00:20:53.880 you know,

00:20:54.260 we come from those other societies and let me tell you,

00:20:57.620 you don't want to recreate that from which we've escaped.

00:21:00.660 So I do think there's this extra component.

00:21:04.200 If I can use a term that I despise lived experience,

00:21:07.460 our lived experience allows us to,

00:21:09.700 to,

00:21:09.900 you know,

00:21:10.000 to shout from top of the mountain,

00:21:11.580 beware you're heading down,

00:21:13.460 uh,

00:21:14.160 what I escaped in Beirut.

00:21:15.740 Right.

00:21:16.280 But that's,

00:21:16.760 what's also so infuriating even to me as a non-immigrant,

00:21:20.180 somebody who's born and raised here.

00:21:22.060 I'm sure it's even more infuriating to you actually having experienced what happens on the other side of this,

00:21:27.540 that we're,

00:21:28.480 we're wasting it.

00:21:29.340 We're killing,

00:21:29.980 we're not just wait,

00:21:30.660 we're,

00:21:30.820 we're killing it.

00:21:31.720 We're actively killing these values that have made the West so special.

00:21:36.140 Exactly.

00:21:36.660 I mean,

00:21:36.860 you know what?

00:21:37.880 My wife often tells me,

00:21:39.660 you already lived a very,

00:21:40.980 you live a very stressful life as a professor.

00:21:43.140 You,

00:21:43.300 you're publishing tons of scientific papers and you have a grants to write and,

00:21:47.280 you know,

00:21:47.680 graduate students to supervise and you teach and blah,

00:21:50.160 blah,

00:21:50.280 blah.

00:21:50.820 Why do you have to take on all this?

00:21:53.000 Because as you mentioned earlier,

00:21:54.660 you're so kindly when you're referring to my personality,

00:21:57.240 I simply can't walk away from seeing the murder of truth.

00:22:03.540 You know,

00:22:03.880 so,

00:22:04.280 so if I were to analogize,

00:22:05.980 there are two types of people that,

00:22:07.700 you know,

00:22:07.860 when they're walking by an alley and they hear someone being mugged,

00:22:11.420 they could kind of furtively keep walking,

00:22:15.520 pretending that they never heard the screams of cry,

00:22:18.380 you know,

00:22:18.580 of help or the one who says,

00:22:20.060 what the hell is going on?

00:22:20.960 I want to go into the alley and intervene.

00:22:23.120 Well,

00:22:23.420 for better or worse,

00:22:24.500 I'm that guy.

00:22:25.380 When it comes to seeing what's happening to the West,

00:22:27.400 it drives me absolutely insane.

00:22:29.000 And I can,

00:22:29.580 I'm being literal now.

00:22:30.780 It truly doesn't help my blood pressure.

00:22:32.780 My blood pressure has gone up over the past few years because I,

00:22:36.440 I probably am always in,

00:22:38.960 you know,

00:22:39.420 you know,

00:22:39.940 fight mode,

00:22:40.820 right?

00:22:41.360 Again,

00:22:41.800 not because I'm cantankerous,

00:22:43.720 because as you said,

00:22:44.440 I'm affable by,

00:22:45.400 by,

00:22:45.840 by disposition,

00:22:46.720 but because I just can't stomach all this nonsense.

00:22:49.900 So when I go after someone,

00:22:52.240 say on Twitters,

00:22:53.400 you know,

00:22:53.600 Seth Rogen or,

00:22:54.720 you know,

00:22:55.500 Keith Olbermann,

00:22:56.820 it's genuinely because they piss me off,

00:22:59.740 right?

00:23:00.000 So people think,

00:23:01.000 oh,

00:23:01.120 you're trying to ride their wave of fame,

00:23:03.580 you know,

00:23:03.900 as if I need Seth Rogen so I could be recognized more on the street.

00:23:07.620 No,

00:23:07.800 it's because he pisses me off,

00:23:09.320 right?

00:23:09.480 He sits in Malibu,

00:23:10.920 you know,

00:23:11.480 with all of the vestiges of the capitalist world that he lives in,

00:23:16.160 but yet he's Che Guevara.

00:23:17.900 So,

00:23:18.160 you know,

00:23:18.340 he pisses me off.

00:23:19.140 So I call him out.

00:23:20.220 So I don't know if there's a way for me to extricate myself out of all these fights,

00:23:23.940 but my physician would certainly like me to reduce my blood.

00:23:27.360 No,

00:23:27.480 but you belong in them.

00:23:28.620 I can relate to this.

00:23:29.660 I,

00:23:29.900 you know,

00:23:30.100 after I left NBC and people would call me a racist and like the black lives matter thing

00:23:35.720 that exploded and George Floyd and you know,

00:23:38.000 more than one person said to me,

00:23:39.080 like,

00:23:39.220 don't,

00:23:39.500 don't touch race.

00:23:40.560 Don't touch BLM.

00:23:41.840 Don't go there.

00:23:42.780 You know,

00:23:43.260 like just sort of stay away from those issues.

00:23:46.400 Right.

00:23:46.840 And I'm like,

00:23:47.600 I'm sorry,

00:23:49.200 but I,

00:23:49.780 I must,

00:23:50.500 I gotta be me.

00:23:51.580 These things,

00:23:52.100 this is insanity.

00:23:53.340 And I don't care what they say about me.

00:23:56.400 Like,

00:23:56.560 that's the thing.

00:23:57.140 When people come at you from that angle,

00:23:58.400 it's like,

00:23:59.100 Oh,

00:23:59.220 you're still on the other side of caring about that.

00:24:01.540 I,

00:24:01.820 I've left that side and it's wonderful.

00:24:04.060 It's liberating over here.

00:24:05.200 It can be stressful,

00:24:06.060 but it's also really liberating.

00:24:08.540 And I would say that the reason,

00:24:10.940 if you forgive me for sort of doing a psychoanalysis and you'll tell me if I'm wrong.

00:24:15.620 The reason you can do it is because you too have a very strong sense of self,

00:24:20.220 meaning that you're not going to capitulate because,

00:24:24.560 you know,

00:24:24.740 the blue haired folks are going to come after you.

00:24:26.520 Right.

00:24:27.380 You are a honey badger as I,

00:24:29.100 you know,

00:24:29.260 I mean,

00:24:29.760 chapter eight of my book is probably wasted on you because I implore people to activate their,

00:24:34.500 any honey badgers.

00:24:35.440 Well,

00:24:35.680 you you're a badger by disposition.

00:24:38.020 And I think that's what I try to implore people to do.

00:24:40.860 Not,

00:24:41.100 not everybody's going to be Megan Kelly.

00:24:43.040 Not everybody's going to be,

00:24:44.580 her name escapes me.

00:24:45.460 The one who was the press secretary for Donald Trump.

00:24:48.620 What's her name again?

00:24:49.540 Bailey McEnany.

00:24:50.540 Yeah.

00:24:51.020 I mean,

00:24:51.240 that's another honey badger.

00:24:52.980 You know,

00:24:53.700 not everyone's going to be Ayaan Hirsi Ali,

00:24:55.720 but from within your small sphere of influence,

00:24:58.440 whomever you are,

00:24:59.380 whether you are interacting with a person on Facebook or challenging your professor politely,

00:25:04.800 get engaged,

00:25:06.240 you know,

00:25:06.460 don't diffuse responsibility onto others.

00:25:08.500 And if everybody were to do their small part,

00:25:10.940 I think we would reverse this nonsense,

00:25:13.940 you know,

00:25:14.140 very quickly.

00:25:16.220 Up next,

00:25:16.900 we're going to talk about the tyranny of the minority.

00:25:19.820 And we're going to talk about a guy named Jack Phillips,

00:25:21.820 who's been in the news lately.

00:25:23.280 He's the baker,

00:25:24.280 the cake baker out in Colorado state,

00:25:26.340 who first he wouldn't bake,

00:25:27.960 bake the gay wedding cake for the,

00:25:29.660 you know,

00:25:29.820 for the gay wedding.

00:25:30.440 And he won at the Supreme court.

00:25:31.500 And now an activist is back after him and we'll see where this case goes,

00:25:35.740 but he lost the first round and they just continue coming for Jack Phillips.

00:25:40.960 And he's not alone.

00:25:42.540 That's next.

00:25:45.680 The activists are everywhere.

00:25:48.100 I mean,

00:25:48.320 they're,

00:25:48.640 it's,

00:25:49.060 they're ubiquitous now.

00:25:50.300 And the case I'm thinking of at the moment was one that made the news just this week,

00:25:54.040 where there's a woman named,

00:25:56.020 she's a trans woman named autumn Scardina Scardina and autumn is a personal injury,

00:26:04.160 injury attorney in the state of Colorado and decided to pick on Jack Phillips,

00:26:08.260 the guy who makes the cakes,

00:26:09.700 Jack Phillips owns and runs masterpiece cake shop,

00:26:13.600 right?

00:26:13.960 You know,

00:26:14.180 this case,

00:26:14.920 and he wouldn't bake the cake,

00:26:16.920 uh,

00:26:17.120 Colorado.

00:26:17.800 He wouldn't bake the cake for a gay wedding several years ago.

00:26:22.000 And the,

00:26:23.280 the gay men filed a lawsuit against him claiming he was in violation of Colorado's anti-discrimination

00:26:28.840 laws.

00:26:29.620 And it went all the way up to the U S Supreme court and Jack Phillips won the cake.

00:26:34.900 Baker won that case.

00:26:36.600 And he actually came on my show at NBC.

00:26:39.940 He's getting targeted again by this autumn,

00:26:42.300 but when he came on my show on NBC,

00:26:44.260 he was wonderful.

00:26:45.320 So first of all,

00:26:45.740 I had the gay couple on.

00:26:47.000 Okay.

00:26:47.240 I talked to them and they made their heartfelt case about why it was hurtful not to get

00:26:52.000 the cake.

00:26:52.380 And there's lots of places they could have gotten the cake from in,

00:26:55.140 in Colorado.

00:26:55.640 Didn't have to go through Jack Phillips who doesn't,

00:26:57.740 his Christian beliefs don't support gay marriage,

00:26:59.740 but they did anyway.

00:27:01.840 They,

00:27:02.080 they made their case and he came on and he made his case too.

00:27:05.060 And what you realize in talking to Jack Phillips is he's a real human being and he

00:27:08.620 paid a real price for all the media coverage about him as this,

00:27:11.820 you know,

00:27:12.000 they,

00:27:12.220 of course they called him the rampant bigot and so on,

00:27:14.040 but he stuck to his religious principle.

00:27:16.880 And I have that teed up cause he's back in the news.

00:27:19.240 Listen to Jack Phillips.

00:27:20.200 This is,

00:27:20.640 I think two,

00:27:21.340 three years ago on NBC with me.

00:27:22.680 When you see those two young men talking about how it brought tears to their

00:27:25.960 eyes and how they felt like second-class citizens.

00:27:28.680 How did that make you feel?

00:27:29.900 Yeah.

00:27:30.580 I apologize to the young man.

00:27:32.180 I told him I sell them anything else in my shop,

00:27:34.800 even offer to make other creative cakes,

00:27:36.500 but it's been emotional for us as well.

00:27:38.980 There were days where my wife was afraid.

00:27:44.040 I was actually afraid to come to the shock.

00:27:48.080 We've had death threats,

00:27:49.380 harassing phone calls,

00:27:50.920 been forced by the government to give up 40% of my business,

00:27:54.680 half of my employees.

00:27:57.320 It's been emotional on our side as well.

00:28:00.940 So he did what he should do,

00:28:03.220 which is he let it play out in the courts.

00:28:04.620 He fought,

00:28:05.060 he defended himself and the Supreme court sided with him.

00:28:08.300 So what is this autumn do?

00:28:10.980 She,

00:28:11.480 she immediately goes in there and tries to get him to bake her a cake,

00:28:16.800 celebrating her gender transition from male to female.

00:28:20.460 And he says,

00:28:22.060 Jack Phillips says,

00:28:22.800 if you want to buy like a previously made cake in this shop,

00:28:26.340 that's half pink and half blue,

00:28:27.360 which is what she wanted.

00:28:28.540 You may,

00:28:29.780 but I can't use my artistic skills to engage in what's effectively speech to

00:28:35.700 support your transition because I don't believe in it.

00:28:38.940 You know,

00:28:39.060 my religious beliefs do not are not,

00:28:41.140 they won't allow me to support this.

00:28:42.920 This woman just basically tried to tweak the guy.

00:28:46.100 She got a court ruling out there in Colorado,

00:28:47.600 which a hundred percent is going to get reversed saying that he violated their

00:28:51.220 public accommodation laws,

00:28:52.560 which don't allow discrimination again.

00:28:54.280 Right.

00:28:54.520 And it's like,

00:28:55.500 first of all,

00:28:55.880 let me just say public accommodation laws.

00:28:58.280 They they're not for the case of Jack Phillips.

00:29:00.540 They're for the case when you're traveling a hundred miles and there's only one hotel

00:29:03.900 back in the day.

00:29:04.780 Right.

00:29:05.180 And they,

00:29:05.420 they didn't want to make it so that you could kick out people of color,

00:29:08.940 for example.

00:29:09.780 And when,

00:29:10.340 when somebody sued over that,

00:29:11.400 that,

00:29:11.660 that made a lot of sense.

00:29:12.380 Cause you're,

00:29:13.160 there were a lot of businesses like that.

00:29:14.520 So you,

00:29:14.780 you sue one,

00:29:15.480 you're really suing them all.

00:29:16.720 This is not that case that this is she,

00:29:19.800 she manufactured this case against this guy,

00:29:22.040 notwithstanding the fact that he already fought and won this battle,

00:29:24.520 but this all by way of saying the activists on the other side of this stuff

00:29:28.860 are everywhere.

00:29:30.440 They're clever and they're bullies.

00:29:33.980 So if those of us on the side of reason don't speak up in whatever way we feel

00:29:37.900 comfortable,

00:29:38.240 but I think it's time for it to be more vocal and more strong.

00:29:42.440 We're going to lose and we're going to deserve to lose.

00:29:45.460 Or if we don't lose.

00:29:47.260 And if we win at some point in the future,

00:29:49.680 it will be much more costly to win.

00:29:51.900 Right.

00:29:52.040 So I always tell people we can either win the battle of ideas today.

00:29:57.060 We can win it in 10 years where it will be more costly,

00:30:00.560 or we could win it in a hundred years where we'll win it by doing house to

00:30:04.620 house fighting.

00:30:05.160 Like we like happened in Beirut.

00:30:07.120 Right.

00:30:07.300 So the choice is yours.

00:30:08.340 So even if I were to be optimistic and say,

00:30:12.060 we will win the battle,

00:30:13.340 it will come at a different schedule of costs.

00:30:16.760 Right.

00:30:17.020 When you win the battle will determine how costly it will be to win it.

00:30:22.800 And so this is why I always act with such urgency when I'm trying to get

00:30:26.980 people,

00:30:27.540 you know,

00:30:27.800 implore them to get engaged.

00:30:29.840 By the way,

00:30:30.300 your example of the trans person in question speaks to something that I

00:30:35.780 talked about in my Canadian Senate testimony in 2017,

00:30:40.140 I had appeared along with Jordan Peterson to speak about the then bill that

00:30:45.340 had not passed called bill C-16,

00:30:47.200 which was a bill seeking to incorporate gender expression and gender identity

00:30:52.160 under the rubric of,

00:30:53.360 you know,

00:30:53.740 hate crimes.

00:30:54.660 And of course my position was I fully support the right of all individuals to

00:30:59.340 live free of bigotry,

00:31:00.700 but that there were some slippery slope issues.

00:31:03.940 One of which is that while I believe that transgender people should not face any,

00:31:10.020 you know,

00:31:10.420 institutional discrimination,

00:31:12.360 you don't,

00:31:13.100 you can't force me to celebrate your unique personhood,

00:31:17.360 right?

00:31:17.520 Like I don't have to go on that ride with you,

00:31:19.560 right?

00:31:19.960 I could fully fight for your right to be free of bigotry,

00:31:23.560 but you can't compel me to,

00:31:25.920 you know,

00:31:26.280 be celebrating your personal.

00:31:28.040 So example,

00:31:29.540 Canada,

00:31:30.060 we're trying to create gender neutral societies where,

00:31:32.780 where our biological marker is,

00:31:34.740 let's say removed from our passports because,

00:31:37.280 you know,

00:31:38.040 there is some small percentage 0.01% of people who are non-binary.

00:31:42.380 So 99.99% of people have to lose a fundamental defining feature of their

00:31:47.880 personhood,

00:31:48.520 which is their biological marker,

00:31:50.360 because we need to cater to the possible hurt feelings of 0.01% of the

00:31:55.240 people.

00:31:55.780 This is what I refer to as the tyranny of the minority.

00:31:58.340 Now my testimony was very,

00:32:00.620 very sober,

00:32:01.280 very serious,

00:32:01.920 very scientific.

00:32:02.960 Well,

00:32:03.260 one liberal Senator,

00:32:05.340 when it came,

00:32:06.000 his turn to challenge me said,

00:32:08.700 you are supporting pro genocide to which I answered him.

00:32:13.460 And it's,

00:32:14.280 you can go watch the testimony.

00:32:15.940 It's available publicly.

00:32:17.400 I said,

00:32:18.000 you know,

00:32:18.200 you,

00:32:18.400 one might,

00:32:19.160 might,

00:32:19.420 one might want to be careful to tell someone who escaped execution in the

00:32:22.640 Middle East that they are pro genocide and that kind of put him in his

00:32:25.260 place.

00:32:25.460 But that's the level of how lunatic the discourse is.

00:32:30.240 It's funny.

00:32:30.820 Cause I was reading a piece by Charlie cook who I love on national review about

00:32:34.120 the,

00:32:34.440 the case of the Baker,

00:32:36.840 Jack Phillips.

00:32:37.240 And he was saying to your point,

00:32:38.880 it's,

00:32:39.160 this is a quote.

00:32:40.520 It's one thing for a person to demand that he be treated equally by his

00:32:45.920 government or by a monopoly or by anyone with whom he's forced by custom to

00:32:49.840 interact.

00:32:50.180 But it is quite another to demand that every last person in this nation of

00:32:54.600 330 million people approve of him,

00:32:57.580 endorse him or consent to,

00:33:00.820 I can't read my own writing consent to be treated on his terms,

00:33:05.020 whatever that that's different thing.

00:33:06.940 Like we,

00:33:08.400 not everybody has to accept you,

00:33:10.300 love you.

00:33:11.220 Those of us who are on the other side of these arguments understand that very

00:33:14.140 well.

00:33:14.780 This seems to have crossed over into another place where it's no,

00:33:18.700 you must actually approve of me and I will police your actual thinking and

00:33:24.340 absolutely your language to your point about what's happening in Canada.

00:33:28.260 Yeah,

00:33:28.460 exactly.

00:33:29.300 Look,

00:33:29.660 I,

00:33:30.020 one of the things that I talk about in the parasitic mind is that this idea of

00:33:34.760 anti-fragility.

00:33:35.620 Are you familiar with the concept?

00:33:37.340 Do you know what that is?

00:33:38.460 What do you mean?

00:33:38.780 Robin DiAngelo's or the white fragility?

00:33:40.680 No,

00:33:41.020 not anti-fragility.

00:33:42.560 Yes,

00:33:42.740 yes,

00:33:42.900 yes.

00:33:43.140 Where are you talking about how what we're breeding now is just the

00:33:46.580 opposite on college campuses.

00:33:47.700 How everybody we're leaning into our fragility.

00:33:50.380 Right.

00:33:50.880 So,

00:33:51.060 so anti-fragility.

00:33:52.480 So if you take,

00:33:53.000 for example,

00:33:53.860 let me give a background explanation.

00:33:55.940 So if you,

00:33:56.680 there's something in evolutionary medicine called the hygiene hypothesis,

00:33:59.300 which basically says that if you want to have children grow up without any

00:34:05.580 autoimmune diseases,

00:34:07.400 say for example,

00:34:08.100 like asthma or respiratory ailment,

00:34:10.060 then you want to have their immune systems exposed to allergens.

00:34:15.160 So kids who grow up with pets,

00:34:17.300 kids who grow up with dust,

00:34:18.500 kids who grow up on farms are much less likely to suffer from asthma because

00:34:23.540 their immune system expects to be,

00:34:26.340 wait for it,

00:34:27.980 triggered in order to optimally work.

00:34:30.940 And so I take this principle and I argue,

00:34:33.060 well,

00:34:33.480 that that's a manifestation of anti-fragility,

00:34:35.760 right?

00:34:35.960 That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger as the old saying goes.

00:34:38.960 So our brains,

00:34:41.320 our prefrontal cortex are akin to our respiratory system.

00:34:45.560 It,

00:34:45.660 it expects to be exposed to allergens.

00:34:49.680 In this case,

00:34:50.160 the allergens are contrary positions,

00:34:52.160 right?

00:34:52.680 You may love and want to celebrate transgender people.

00:34:55.940 And the next person doesn't right in a free society.

00:34:58.800 There are all sorts of opposing ideas that are floating around.

00:35:03.260 And so to create an environment that is completely sterile,

00:35:06.620 just like the sterile environment will result in asthma.

00:35:10.060 The sterile environment of the universities will result,

00:35:12.580 will result in lobotomized imbeciles who run countries.

00:35:15.680 And so anti-fragility is an incredibly powerful framework to try to

00:35:20.160 understand some of the,

00:35:21.360 the nonsense that we're facing today.

00:35:25.220 It's so upsetting though,

00:35:26.620 because of course,

00:35:28.280 as you well know,

00:35:29.220 we're,

00:35:29.400 we're just a hundred percent going the opposite way when it comes to college

00:35:32.220 campuses and beyond the safe spaces and the microaggressions and the,

00:35:36.260 anti the triggering and the trigger warnings in books,

00:35:39.420 nevermind at the beginning of conversations,

00:35:41.280 it's like,

00:35:41.920 Oh my God,

00:35:42.520 we're treating everyone like they're these delicate little flowers.

00:35:45.640 And what did they learn from that?

00:35:47.200 That they're delicate little flowers that,

00:35:49.580 you know,

00:35:49.760 the,

00:35:50.080 the,

00:35:50.300 the fake hypothesis becomes the reality.

00:35:53.020 And then the rest of us who still are living in the actual world have to

00:35:56.500 deal with these little tissue papered people.

00:35:59.500 Well,

00:36:00.020 exactly.

00:36:00.600 I'll tell you a couple of incredible examples of this kind of,

00:36:04.740 you know,

00:36:05.400 fragile folk fainting.

00:36:07.560 I've had several people file complaints against me with my university now,

00:36:13.900 but,

00:36:14.380 but wait,

00:36:14.840 wait till you hear this,

00:36:16.020 not from my duties as a professor,

00:36:19.240 right?

00:36:19.400 I mean,

00:36:19.600 it'd be,

00:36:20.100 it'd be quite upsetting and worrisome if let's say students,

00:36:24.220 my students were filing such complaints because I would potentially be

00:36:27.660 violating something that I shouldn't be doing.

00:36:30.480 Uh,

00:36:30.960 right.

00:36:31.820 It's usually someone on Twitter with whom I have gotten into an exchange who

00:36:39.240 somehow loses the battle as often happens when you come after me.

00:36:44.480 And then I decided to roll up my,

00:36:46.060 my sleeves and come after you.

00:36:48.580 And so because they're now hurt that they have been publicly shamed,

00:36:53.000 and usually I have a bigger form than they do.

00:36:55.600 They will file a complaint with my university and then my university will

00:37:00.560 contact me.

00:37:01.400 Usually they're very polite about it,

00:37:02.940 but I'm usually quite indignant because I simply can't believe that they would

00:37:06.920 even,

00:37:07.340 uh,

00:37:08.280 pay any attention to such complaints.

00:37:10.420 Right.

00:37:10.640 But by which logic,

00:37:12.280 by which framework does someone who live in Australia file a complaint to my

00:37:17.960 university because they felt unsafe from the 8,000 miles that they were away

00:37:23.760 from me via Twitter.

00:37:25.740 But yeah,

00:37:26.020 they do.

00:37:27.040 Exactly.

00:37:27.740 So,

00:37:28.200 well,

00:37:28.320 I know you call it ideological Stalinism and that,

00:37:30.700 that,

00:37:31.120 that that's the daily reality now on,

00:37:32.840 on North American college campuses and,

00:37:35.440 and really truly beyond,

00:37:37.400 but that's,

00:37:38.200 this is all part of it,

00:37:39.180 right?

00:37:39.340 That you,

00:37:39.900 you can't say anything.

00:37:42.500 You can't say anything that might offend somebody that,

00:37:45.760 especially God forbid that they're in a protected class of any kind.

00:37:49.240 I mean,

00:37:49.340 you can definitely offend white men and to a lesser extent,

00:37:52.140 white women,

00:37:52.820 but my God,

00:37:54.120 like if you pick a handicapped person over 40,

00:37:56.980 who happens to be a person of color and maybe as an immigrant,

00:38:00.480 I could,

00:38:00.760 I could go on,

00:38:01.480 boy,

00:38:01.720 you just keep your mouth shut.

00:38:02.800 You're just not allowed to say anything.

00:38:04.560 I mean,

00:38:05.420 absolutely.

00:38:06.140 And I'll,

00:38:06.560 I'll tell you even something more worrisome these days.

00:38:09.340 Uh,

00:38:09.860 every single email that I receive seems to be some accolade of what I call stories of

00:38:16.700 first congratulations to person X.

00:38:20.160 They are the first indigenous person to get a B plus in this course.

00:38:25.760 Congratulations to transgender disabled person of color.

00:38:30.000 I mean,

00:38:30.400 what,

00:38:30.640 so,

00:38:31.080 so what if I win a Nobel prize and I'm a heterosexual white male?

00:38:34.920 Well,

00:38:35.120 will I get some kudos guys or,

00:38:37.200 or I need to,

00:38:37.960 you know,

00:38:38.500 be disabled or,

00:38:39.860 uh,

00:38:40.420 you know,

00:38:40.640 transracial or transgender.

00:38:42.240 So,

00:38:42.720 I mean,

00:38:42.880 again,

00:38:43.180 it goes back to,

00:38:44.200 you know,

00:38:44.740 one of the points we talked about earlier with identity politics.

00:38:47.260 What the beauty of the scientific method is that it liberates us from the shackles of

00:38:53.820 our personal identities,

00:38:55.040 right?

00:38:55.340 I mean,

00:38:55.580 that's what makes it the epistemological marvel that it is,

00:38:59.720 right?

00:38:59.960 Because we found a way in unbiased way.

00:39:03.100 Now,

00:39:03.220 this doesn't mean that some scientists are not biased.

00:39:05.160 They're human.

00:39:05.720 So they have frailties,

00:39:06.760 but epistemologically speaking,

00:39:09.000 the scientific method is a way for us to adjudicate,

00:39:12.120 you know,

00:39:12.540 across competing ideas.

00:39:14.460 And so it doesn't matter whether I'm a Lebanese Jew or a,

00:39:18.360 uh,

00:39:18.820 transgender Muslim or whatever,

00:39:21.200 uh,

00:39:21.860 the distribution of prime numbers are the distribution of prime numbers,

00:39:24.860 but even something as non-identity based as mathematics,

00:39:29.980 Megan has now become parasitized by this nonsense.

00:39:33.440 So,

00:39:33.760 and let me just give you the background to what I just said.

00:39:36.760 I have a background in pure mathematics and computer science and so on.

00:39:40.360 And so a few years ago,

00:39:41.880 uh,

00:39:42.620 true to my prophetic satire,

00:39:44.200 I released a clip where I satirically stated,

00:39:47.880 although the way I presented it is as though I wasn't being satirical,

00:39:51.320 that I had founded a new discipline called social justice mathematics.

00:39:55.280 And so I went through all sorts of,

00:39:57.640 uh,

00:39:58.240 mathematical properties,

00:39:59.520 you know,

00:39:59.780 irrational numbers.

00:40:00.860 And then I said,

00:40:01.380 we need to change that word because to use the word irrational,

00:40:04.200 marginalizes mental illness.

00:40:05.860 And so I went through a whole panoply of mathematical operators and so on,

00:40:10.500 you know,

00:40:10.780 using my whole woke BS language.

00:40:13.540 Well,

00:40:13.640 guess what?

00:40:14.300 Three,

00:40:14.580 four years later,

00:40:15.420 reality caught up to my prophetic satire.

00:40:17.900 And we now have social justice mathematics.

00:40:20.940 Yep.

00:40:21.940 We do.

00:40:22.940 And everything.

00:40:23.820 I mean,

00:40:24.140 yes,

00:40:24.600 there's,

00:40:24.940 it's no longer a simple calculation,

00:40:26.860 which,

00:40:27.260 you know,

00:40:27.380 for some of us was never simple.

00:40:28.540 We finally learned the math.

00:40:30.340 And then they told us the math was,

00:40:31.760 could just be disregarded based on skin color.

00:40:34.340 The math didn't add up for certain groups,

00:40:36.220 then it wasn't good.

00:40:37.600 Um,

00:40:38.600 but now,

00:40:39.420 you know,

00:40:39.740 there was a story just in the,

00:40:40.880 in the news last week about,

00:40:42.420 uh,

00:40:43.020 Xavier Becerra,

00:40:43.960 the head of HHS,

00:40:44.880 changing the language in the budget,

00:40:46.640 uh,

00:40:47.340 to provide for maternal healthcare,

00:40:48.700 except there's no,

00:40:49.860 you can't say mom anymore.

00:40:50.800 There's no more maternal healthcare.

00:40:52.100 Now it's,

00:40:53.040 it's healthcare for quote,

00:40:54.200 birthing people,

00:40:55.640 birthing people.

00:40:57.140 And,

00:40:57.640 and when pressed on it,

00:40:59.060 uh,

00:40:59.520 I think it was Senator Lankford who pushed them on it saying,

00:41:01.860 come on,

00:41:02.520 you can't say mother.

00:41:03.800 Oh,

00:41:04.240 you know,

00:41:04.840 well,

00:41:05.060 we'll,

00:41:05.240 we'll look into it.

00:41:05.980 But then there was another administration official.

00:41:07.700 I think it was,

00:41:08.300 uh,

00:41:08.680 Becerra's deputy who said a hundred percent,

00:41:11.120 we stand by it.

00:41:11.900 We're trying to be as inclusive as possible.

00:41:13.780 So for those,

00:41:14.820 I don't know,

00:41:15.260 four people who are biologically female,

00:41:18.080 who cross over and are trans men who decide to still use their female organs and give birth to a baby.

00:41:24.680 We have to get rid of the word mom because they consider themselves dads who gave birth.

00:41:31.020 Well,

00:41:31.260 you know what?

00:41:31.900 The only reason you are still able to perform that miracle is because you,

00:41:37.700 you are a biological woman.

00:41:39.260 And if you identify more as a man,

00:41:40.980 I will support you.

00:41:41.900 I will use your pronouns.

00:41:43.040 I will be kind,

00:41:43.880 but I am not going to deny that it is your uterus and your birth canal and probably your ovaries that allowed you to deliver this miracle.

00:41:52.480 And that is something that is uniquely and awesomely female.

00:41:55.860 And we're not giving it up to be inclusive,

00:41:59.540 quote unquote,

00:42:00.400 for 17 activists who don't even speak on behalf of the entire trans community.

00:42:05.460 Well,

00:42:05.900 so I'm going to take you back to 2002 because a personal anecdote was very prescient as to what was going to eventually be the story that you just mentioned,

00:42:19.680 the,

00:42:19.760 you know,

00:42:19.900 the birthing people,

00:42:20.600 by the way,

00:42:21.280 I refer to people as a multicellular carbon-based non-arboreal agents.

00:42:28.600 And so not for real.

00:42:30.440 Yeah,

00:42:30.620 that's a much better way to say it.

00:42:32.000 That's very inclusive,

00:42:33.460 Gad.

00:42:33.680 Good.

00:42:34.100 Well done.

00:42:35.020 Thank you.

00:42:36.300 So in 2002,

00:42:37.980 I,

00:42:38.600 one of my doctoral students had defended his doctoral dissertation.

00:42:42.280 And so we were planning on going out for a dinner,

00:42:46.440 a celebratory dinner.

00:42:47.400 It was myself.

00:42:48.200 We didn't have any children yet at that point,

00:42:50.300 my wife and I.

00:42:50.940 So it was my wife,

00:42:51.880 myself,

00:42:52.600 my doctoral student,

00:42:54.060 and his date for the evening.

00:42:56.060 And so my doctoral student called me earlier that day,

00:42:59.440 you know,

00:42:59.780 before the night that we were going out.

00:43:01.720 And he just said,

00:43:02.880 you know,

00:43:03.020 I just want to give you a heads up.

00:43:04.800 The person that I'm bringing to our evening is a graduate student in postmodernism,

00:43:11.740 women's studies,

00:43:13.480 and cultural anthropology.

00:43:14.960 I said,

00:43:15.440 ah,

00:43:15.740 okay.

00:43:15.940 So the Holy Trinity of bullshit.

00:43:18.760 Am I allowed to say,

00:43:19.900 or should I have said BS?

00:43:20.980 Sorry.

00:43:21.400 Go for it.

00:43:22.300 No,

00:43:22.480 no,

00:43:22.560 you're good.

00:43:23.440 Okay.

00:43:23.680 And so I said,

00:43:25.440 oh,

00:43:25.600 okay.

00:43:25.740 I understand.

00:43:26.220 You want me to be on my best behavior?

00:43:27.560 No problem.

00:43:28.380 Mom's the word.

00:43:28.980 I'm going to be good,

00:43:29.740 which of course wasn't going to be true.

00:43:32.120 So about halfway through the evening,

00:43:33.900 I turned to the lady in question.

00:43:35.660 I said,

00:43:35.980 oh,

00:43:36.160 I hear you're a postmodernist studying postmodernism.

00:43:38.780 Yes.

00:43:39.060 Yes.

00:43:39.960 Okay.

00:43:40.340 Well,

00:43:40.520 I'm an evolutionary psychologist,

00:43:41.920 so I do study,

00:43:42.980 you know,

00:43:43.760 things that are supposedly human universals.

00:43:47.100 Therefore they are objectively true.

00:43:48.820 As far as we know,

00:43:49.820 do you mind if I propose what I consider to be some universal truths?

00:43:53.240 And then you could tell me how they are not universally true because postmodernism purports

00:43:58.100 that there are no objective truths.

00:44:00.720 We are fully shackled by our personal biases,

00:44:03.420 by subjectivity,

00:44:04.400 by relativism and so on.

00:44:05.660 So it's,

00:44:06.060 it's a perfectly anti-scientific framework.

00:44:09.680 That was a very helpful definition.

00:44:11.020 That was the most user-friendly definition of postmodernism I've heard.

00:44:14.660 Oh,

00:44:14.960 well,

00:44:15.100 thank you.

00:44:15.440 I appreciate that.

00:44:16.060 So I said,

00:44:17.280 okay,

00:44:17.460 let's,

00:44:17.760 let's start with a,

00:44:18.640 with an easy one first.

00:44:20.420 And so that's going to speak to your example,

00:44:23.060 Megan.

00:44:24.900 Is it not true that within Homo sapiens,

00:44:27.840 within humans,

00:44:28.920 women bear children?

00:44:30.340 Is that not a universal fact?

00:44:32.040 Do we need to go back to medical school and alter that understanding of how these things work?

00:44:37.780 So she looks at me with complete disdain,

00:44:39.840 rolls her eyes,

00:44:40.940 scoffs at my,

00:44:41.920 you know,

00:44:42.660 misogynistic idiocy and says,

00:44:45.040 absolutely not.

00:44:46.040 I said,

00:44:46.660 it is not true that only women bear children.

00:44:49.140 How is that?

00:44:49.740 Explain this to me.

00:44:50.800 She goes,

00:44:51.140 well,

00:44:51.260 there is some tribe,

00:44:52.660 Japanese tribe off some Japanese Island,

00:44:55.900 whereby within the,

00:44:57.180 their mythological realm,

00:44:59.180 within their folklore,

00:45:00.980 it is the men who bear children.

00:45:02.660 So by you restricting the conversation to,

00:45:05.120 you know,

00:45:05.620 the biological realm,

00:45:06.540 that's how you keep us,

00:45:07.600 you know,

00:45:08.460 barefoot and pregnant.

00:45:09.420 And so when I recovered from my mini stroke,

00:45:12.060 I then said to her,

00:45:13.480 okay,

00:45:14.320 let me pick a less contentious,

00:45:16.900 a less corrosive,

00:45:18.180 a less poisonous example.

00:45:20.520 Is it not true that from any vantage point on earth,

00:45:24.160 since time immemorial,

00:45:26.300 sailors have relied on the following cosmological reality,

00:45:30.180 that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.

00:45:33.400 And here she used a trick called deconstructionism.

00:45:36.540 As espoused by a French postmodernist called Jacques Derrida.

00:45:40.680 And so postmodern,

00:45:42.480 deconstructionism basically says that language creates reality.

00:45:45.360 So she said,

00:45:46.000 well,

00:45:46.120 what do you mean by east and west?

00:45:47.860 And what do you mean by the sun?

00:45:49.500 That which you call the sun,

00:45:51.300 I might refer to as dancing hyena.

00:45:53.980 I said,

00:45:54.300 well,

00:45:54.440 fine.

00:45:54.760 The dancing hyena rises in the east and sets in the west.

00:45:57.560 And then she said very indignantly,

00:45:59.360 well,

00:45:59.520 I don't play those label games.

00:46:00.840 So that student Megan in 2002 wasn't willing to concede.

00:46:06.440 She didn't have a shared sense,

00:46:08.200 you know,

00:46:08.460 sensemaking with me that we could agree.

00:46:10.680 What is women?

00:46:11.360 What is man?

00:46:11.980 What does it mean to bear children?

00:46:14.000 What does it mean to say east or west or the sun?

00:46:16.740 She wasn't an escapee from a psychiatric institution.

00:46:19.060 She was an escapee from a graduate department in postmodernism.

00:46:24.220 So that's what we are teaching our students.

00:46:26.520 So not only are we poisoning them with parasitic garbage,

00:46:29.320 but we're wasting their parents' hard-earned monies.

00:46:32.960 Up next,

00:46:33.740 we're going to get into language control,

00:46:36.580 right?

00:46:36.900 Language control.

00:46:37.780 And this came up recently,

00:46:39.520 and I mentioned this with Gad on our trans activists interviews.

00:46:43.380 You know,

00:46:43.540 the two cis girls filed a lawsuit against the school saying they shouldn't be

00:46:47.540 forced to race against trans girls.

00:46:49.880 And we had a great trans woman on the show who kind of corrected my language

00:46:54.240 on this.

00:46:54.660 And I gave it to her pretty quickly.

00:46:56.200 I don't need to have those battles on the show just in trying to get a

00:46:59.100 discussion started,

00:46:59.940 but kind of a thoughtful exchange between Gad and yours truly on whether I

00:47:03.220 should have done that.

00:47:04.380 How much does the language matter in these debates?

00:47:07.080 We'll get into that next,

00:47:08.140 but first we're going to bring you a feature here on the show called asked

00:47:12.000 and answered where we answer some of our listener mail and Steve

00:47:15.420 crack our executive producer has got today's question.

00:47:18.540 Hey,

00:47:18.640 Steve.

00:47:19.140 Hey,

00:47:19.280 Megan.

00:47:19.680 This one comes to us from questions at devilmaycaremedia.com where anyone can

00:47:24.640 send in their questions and we can answer some of them on our show.

00:47:27.460 This is coming from Becky Takashima.

00:47:30.080 And she says she's a huge fan,

00:47:31.400 always listens,

00:47:32.300 loves your book.

00:47:32.980 So because of those compliments,

00:47:34.640 I'm asking a pretty personal question that she asked,

00:47:36.720 but that is,

00:47:37.560 she's curious how you feel about women taking the husband's last name.

00:47:40.760 And if you legally change your name,

00:47:42.220 when you married Doug,

00:47:43.260 she said she's engaged to be married to her second husband,

00:47:45.820 not simultaneously.

00:47:47.020 She parenthetically says she's not convinced she's going to change her name,

00:47:50.380 but ask you to persuade her.

00:47:52.680 Well,

00:47:52.840 I wouldn't,

00:47:53.440 I would never dare.

00:47:54.560 I mean,

00:47:54.880 that's such a personal choice,

00:47:56.140 right?

00:47:56.380 I did not.

00:47:57.300 I actually have done it both ways.

00:47:59.160 My maiden name is Kelly.

00:48:00.260 I was raised Megan Kelly.

00:48:01.600 And when I married my first husband,

00:48:03.180 Dan,

00:48:03.500 I did change it to Megan Kendall and I shouldn't have done it.

00:48:08.240 Yeah.

00:48:08.360 I loved Kelly and I didn't really want to give it up,

00:48:10.400 but I was sort of raised in a more traditional family and kind of like,

00:48:13.560 okay,

00:48:13.780 I'll do it.

00:48:14.560 And I liked Kendall.

00:48:15.380 It was a nice last name,

00:48:16.580 but just,

00:48:17.240 you know,

00:48:17.380 it didn't sound right.

00:48:18.180 That's not the name.

00:48:18.880 It wasn't my name.

00:48:19.700 And then here's the story for you.

00:48:21.720 When I got a divorce,

00:48:22.860 I'm like,

00:48:23.100 I'm totally changing it back to Kelly.

00:48:24.980 And Brit Hume actually came over to me.

00:48:27.220 He was like,

00:48:27.700 don't do it.

00:48:28.700 And was trying to persuade me that Kendall was better than Kelly and that he,

00:48:33.000 you know,

00:48:33.100 the sound of it was nice.

00:48:34.300 And I don't know what his objection was specifically to Megan Kelly,

00:48:37.680 but he really preferred the other name.

00:48:39.840 And all I could say was Brit,

00:48:41.320 I'm doing it.

00:48:42.080 So you're wasting your breath.

00:48:43.520 And I did change it.

00:48:44.940 And it's actually a fun thing.

00:48:46.780 Cause it's,

00:48:47.440 I think it was in getting my updated license or social security.

00:48:50.700 I talked about this with Janice Dean when she came in the show.

00:48:52.740 That's when I first got to be friends with Janice.

00:48:55.300 She had just married Sean and she was changing her name and I was changing

00:48:58.200 mine back.

00:48:58.920 And we met at one of those offices and became such close and dear friends.

00:49:03.360 I didn't change it with Doug.

00:49:05.820 Brunt.

00:49:06.320 It's tough.

00:49:07.220 It's definitely not better than Kelly.

00:49:10.120 As I remind Doug daily,

00:49:12.220 you know,

00:49:13.600 like if we were one of those couples,

00:49:14.960 those super modern couples where you just choose the best last name,

00:49:17.520 we a hundred percent would have gone with Kelly.

00:49:19.140 Hello.

00:49:20.500 But it's fine.

00:49:21.320 It's strong.

00:49:22.060 I like that.

00:49:23.340 And it's my kid's name.

00:49:24.400 So I'm,

00:49:24.840 I really shouldn't rip on it publicly.

00:49:27.220 It really just,

00:49:28.140 the reason I didn't take it is just,

00:49:29.860 it's not my name.

00:49:30.980 You know,

00:49:31.200 I just,

00:49:31.460 I just didn't,

00:49:32.100 didn't feel connected to the name.

00:49:33.560 And I understand some people take it.

00:49:34.920 Like I want to have the same last name as your,

00:49:36.360 your kids.

00:49:37.160 I'll let the little neighborhood kids call me Mrs.

00:49:39.340 Brunt because they know me as my kid's mom.

00:49:42.260 That's fine.

00:49:43.240 I don't know.

00:49:43.900 For me,

00:49:44.240 I didn't feel connected to it.

00:49:45.420 I felt like Megan Kelly.

00:49:46.900 I felt like a fraud when I had somebody else's name and I was never going to go

00:49:50.220 back and do that again.

00:49:51.120 And I feel like,

00:49:52.000 I don't know,

00:49:52.700 Becky Takashima.

00:49:53.980 That's a good name.

00:49:55.720 It's like Becky.

00:49:56.700 It's got like the,

00:49:57.760 it's got the,

00:49:58.520 the consonants that you hit kind of strong.

00:50:00.900 It's nice.

00:50:01.220 But then Takashima,

00:50:02.540 it's got like some,

00:50:03.800 there's something elegant about it.

00:50:05.000 I don't know.

00:50:05.520 It makes me feel like,

00:50:06.260 yeah,

00:50:06.480 cool.

00:50:07.480 She's somebody you want to have a Manhattan with her,

00:50:09.760 a Cosmo.

00:50:12.660 So I don't know.

00:50:13.440 It's,

00:50:13.600 it's very personal.

00:50:14.640 No judgment whatsoever for taking it or not taking.

00:50:17.460 I think it's very personal choice.

00:50:18.560 And I totally,

00:50:19.040 I like tradition.

00:50:20.400 I'm not against it is for me personally.

00:50:22.560 It wasn't resonating.

00:50:23.580 So I had to reject that one.

00:50:25.900 Anyway,

00:50:26.560 those are my two cents for whatever they're worth.

00:50:29.000 And it may not be anything,

00:50:29.920 but either way,

00:50:30.660 Becky,

00:50:31.400 we appreciate you listening and you let us know if you update it so we can keep your email and stay in touch.

00:50:35.840 And Steve,

00:50:37.420 if there are other would-be commentators or questioners,

00:50:41.220 the address is?

00:50:42.500 Yeah,

00:50:42.820 Becky or anyone else can email us again at questions at devilmaycaremedia.com.

00:50:47.920 By the way,

00:50:48.380 she should.

00:50:48.840 Becky,

00:50:49.060 you do need to email us and let us know what the competing name is.

00:50:51.620 Like maybe it's somehow even cooler than Takashima.

00:50:54.480 I don't know.

00:50:55.320 Takashima is probably at the top though,

00:50:56.760 right?

00:50:57.020 How are you going to,

00:50:57.820 how are you going to upgrade from that?

00:50:58.640 It's a strong name.

00:50:59.360 Anyway.

00:50:59.580 I like it.

00:51:00.220 Right?

00:51:00.720 Yeah.

00:51:01.220 She'll let us know.

00:51:02.400 And now back to GAD after this.

00:51:05.840 It's interesting.

00:51:11.180 You know,

00:51:11.320 a couple of weeks ago I had on a,

00:51:12.760 we had a debate on trans athletes,

00:51:15.760 trans.

00:51:16.080 It's always trans female athletes that wind up in the news because they're supposed to just,

00:51:20.520 the biological girls,

00:51:21.940 this girl is supposed to just shut up and take it.

00:51:23.980 But sometimes they don't and they wind up in the courts and then they wind up in the news.

00:51:27.520 That's how they wind up on this show.

00:51:28.580 And we had a trans woman who was herself an athlete defending to some extent the right of

00:51:35.620 these trans athletes to compete against the biological girls,

00:51:38.660 the cis girls.

00:51:39.980 And she kicked it off.

00:51:40.980 And I liked this woman.

00:51:41.740 She was great.

00:51:42.280 She was,

00:51:42.580 she was an honest broker.

00:51:44.040 You know,

00:51:44.180 she,

00:51:44.420 she gave on some point,

00:51:46.040 she said,

00:51:46.340 you know,

00:51:46.580 these,

00:51:47.120 these biological,

00:51:48.580 whatever,

00:51:48.960 the boys,

00:51:50.020 the kids who are identified boy at birth,

00:51:52.660 they should be forced to undergo gender,

00:51:55.360 you know,

00:51:56.740 hormone therapy and so on.

00:51:57.740 They shouldn't be able to just run as boys in this,

00:51:59.760 in the spring and then as girls in the fall without doing anything.

00:52:02.260 And that's by the way,

00:52:03.060 what,

00:52:03.280 what happened in this case in Connecticut.

00:52:05.520 Her name was Joanna Harper.

00:52:07.300 And,

00:52:07.540 but we,

00:52:09.620 she kicked off the debate by challenging my language on calling the kids at issue.

00:52:14.520 The athletes at issue,

00:52:16.220 biological boys.

00:52:17.640 They're,

00:52:18.120 they're trans girls.

00:52:19.420 Okay.

00:52:19.680 They were,

00:52:20.480 they ran as boys in the spring as girls in the fall.

00:52:22.580 So they're trans girls.

00:52:23.960 She didn't like me calling them biological boys.

00:52:26.120 And I understand that the trans community doesn't really like that.

00:52:28.840 They want to say that they're biological.

00:52:30.560 They were biological girls in this case all along.

00:52:33.240 They had just been labeled the wrong thing and treated as the wrong thing.

00:52:37.280 And,

00:52:37.460 you know,

00:52:38.160 we're given the wrong,

00:52:39.100 like sexual organs that didn't really correspond to who they were.

00:52:43.060 I get it.

00:52:44.360 I'm not like that into having that debate.

00:52:47.220 Like if somebody wants me to say that they're a biological girl,

00:52:49.960 even though they were,

00:52:51.700 they have X,

00:52:52.300 Y chromosomes,

00:52:53.260 I don't feel that strongly about it,

00:52:55.260 but just listening to you talk.

00:52:57.260 And some of my other guests have made this point too.

00:52:58.660 Like the language battle might matter.

00:53:00.760 Like maybe,

00:53:02.000 maybe I shouldn't have.

00:53:04.020 I,

00:53:04.220 I,

00:53:04.360 what I said to her at the time was,

00:53:05.460 look,

00:53:06.140 we're having a debate about trans runners.

00:53:07.680 And I really just need to like short form it.

00:53:09.540 The biological girls versus the trans girls,

00:53:11.560 you know,

00:53:11.680 like I can't be using 50,000 words to couch every statement in a debate like this,

00:53:16.160 but maybe,

00:53:17.500 maybe it matters.

00:53:19.560 Well,

00:53:19.880 yes.

00:53:20.260 I mean,

00:53:20.640 while it is wrong to,

00:53:22.660 from an epistemological perspective to say that reality doesn't exist outside of language,

00:53:27.680 that is obviously an incorrect statement,

00:53:29.720 but it is also true to your point that language matters,

00:53:34.940 right?

00:53:35.280 Because that's the means by which you and I are able to have a conversation right now.

00:53:39.820 So that there,

00:53:40.560 you know,

00:53:40.740 within the Venn diagrams,

00:53:42.020 there has to be a place where you and I agree as to what words mean.

00:53:45.900 And otherwise we can't have a conversation.

00:53:47.960 Then it would be just pure chaos.

00:53:49.480 And so,

00:53:50.520 so I'm certainly not suggesting that we shouldn't be fighting linguistic battles.

00:53:55.000 I think what I was pointing to in that personal anecdote,

00:53:58.000 but I was suggesting it.

00:53:59.380 That's my,

00:53:59.780 I'm saying I had sort of surrendered pretty quickly on it.

00:54:04.260 Like whatever I'll,

00:54:05.200 you know,

00:54:05.560 I,

00:54:05.900 I understood her point.

00:54:07.080 I didn't want to offend her.

00:54:08.100 I kind of moved on,

00:54:09.080 but maybe I should have stopped and said,

00:54:10.980 what is inaccurate about calling these runners,

00:54:15.600 biological males?

00:54:18.040 Yeah,

00:54:18.180 no,

00:54:18.320 I agree with you.

00:54:19.120 So,

00:54:19.480 so I agree with you that maybe you shouldn't have,

00:54:21.280 uh,

00:54:21.920 ceded that territory.

00:54:22.960 So I'm with you there.

00:54:24.100 Yeah,

00:54:24.240 absolutely.

00:54:24.900 I'm going to think about that more,

00:54:26.200 you know,

00:54:26.560 cause I,

00:54:27.280 I have no wish to offend,

00:54:28.920 you know,

00:54:29.220 that's not,

00:54:29.600 that's never my goal.

00:54:30.380 Like if I can give you something without too much hassle to myself,

00:54:33.740 you know,

00:54:34.580 and it makes you feel better,

00:54:35.560 I'll usually give it to you,

00:54:36.640 but I don't know,

00:54:38.060 maybe this is a front in this battle that needs more thought because they,

00:54:41.700 they definitely do use language as a weapon.

00:54:46.080 These wokesters,

00:54:47.100 they,

00:54:47.340 they really try to make you talk about things in exactly the way they want you to talk about them.

00:54:52.280 And it's infuriating.

00:54:54.040 Well,

00:54:54.540 and here's an example,

00:54:55.500 by the way,

00:54:55.900 of exactly what we're talking about now.

00:54:57.880 Uh,

00:54:58.220 I predicted as did certainly Jordan Peterson,

00:55:01.140 because we're talking about trans issues here that,

00:55:04.180 you know,

00:55:04.580 it wouldn't stop at,

00:55:05.920 you know,

00:55:06.320 people asking you,

00:55:07.560 uh,

00:55:08.020 address me by this pronoun.

00:55:09.180 And I agree with you,

00:55:09.960 by the way,

00:55:10.640 if,

00:55:11.120 if I can address you in a way that you feel comfortable with,

00:55:13.740 it's no skin off my back.

00:55:14.880 I'm going to be by default polite and we'll do so,

00:55:17.740 but don't make the government compel me to do it or my university,

00:55:20.680 or don't tell me that every day you might change your,

00:55:23.820 uh,

00:55:24.440 gender identity.

00:55:25.140 So I have to sit there spending 18 hours a day,

00:55:27.600 memorizing each person's preferred gender pronoun for that day.

00:55:30.760 Right.

00:55:31.280 So,

00:55:31.820 so there's a difference between being kind and nice and acquiescing as a default

00:55:36.300 value or having someone,

00:55:38.160 you know,

00:55:38.680 compel you to do so.

00:55:39.700 Now we warned that this wouldn't stop there.

00:55:42.520 So for example,

00:55:43.260 it then went to,

00:55:45.340 you know,

00:55:45.600 please put your pronouns,

00:55:47.480 but it's not mandatory.

00:55:48.800 Please put your pronouns in your official signature,

00:55:52.340 right?

00:55:53.000 Uh,

00:55:53.500 uh,

00:55:53.760 Dr.

00:55:54.160 Gadsad,

00:55:54.800 he,

00:55:55.300 him.

00:55:55.700 Well,

00:55:55.920 I,

00:55:56.080 I,

00:55:56.220 I,

00:55:56.280 I,

00:55:56.340 I,

00:55:56.540 of course I don't do it,

00:55:57.640 but you know,

00:55:58.720 if I,

00:55:59.020 if I were,

00:55:59.600 uh,

00:56:00.460 a castrato,

00:56:01.300 I would.

00:56:01.820 Right.

00:56:02.120 But then it goes from,

00:56:03.540 we're suggesting that you put it to,

00:56:05.840 you know,

00:56:06.040 you better do it because otherwise you're being,

00:56:08.420 you know,

00:56:09.100 transphobic in your inaction.

00:56:11.080 And so this kind of,

00:56:12.940 uh,

00:56:13.340 ideological fervor doesn't stop with the first inch that you see it.

00:56:17.900 It continues until there's a big blowback.

00:56:21.220 What did you say?

00:56:22.440 Castrato.

00:56:23.020 If I were a castrato.

00:56:24.940 Castrato.

00:56:25.420 Yes.

00:56:25.700 Without,

00:56:26.080 without testicles.

00:56:29.940 Well,

00:56:30.300 I am without testicles and I too will not do it.

00:56:32.940 No,

00:56:33.260 no.

00:56:33.520 Sorry.

00:56:34.060 You may not have official testicles,

00:56:35.940 but you have metaphorical big ones.

00:56:38.320 I do.

00:56:39.360 Thank you for noticing.

00:56:41.140 Indeed.

00:56:41.720 Indeed.

00:56:42.220 I appreciate that.

00:56:43.940 Well,

00:56:44.180 I wanted to talk to you about another thing that,

00:56:45.620 um,

00:56:45.920 is from your book and I,

00:56:47.100 and I love the way you put it.

00:56:48.740 And I know you've talked about this in other forms,

00:56:50.280 but collective Munchausen.

00:56:52.500 And that,

00:56:54.000 that our society is suffering from collective Munchausen.

00:56:57.480 Can you explain that?

00:56:59.160 Sure.

00:56:59.420 So let me give you the background to how I,

00:57:01.980 uh,

00:57:02.560 coined that term.

00:57:03.480 So in 2010,

00:57:04.640 I had written a scientific paper in a medical journal where I was

00:57:09.580 trying to,

00:57:10.480 uh,

00:57:11.360 use an evolutionary lens.

00:57:14.220 Uh,

00:57:14.660 and maybe if you want,

00:57:15.400 we can at some point talk about what I do in my scientific work.

00:57:17.560 I basically apply evolutionary psychology and the behavioral sciences.

00:57:20.920 And so you were studying gender before it was cool.

00:57:24.300 Exactly.

00:57:25.160 Right.

00:57:25.600 Indeed.

00:57:26.240 Uh,

00:57:26.680 and so,

00:57:27.400 so I,

00:57:28.180 I was writing a paper in a medical journal where I was trying to argue that,

00:57:32.220 uh,

00:57:32.900 Munchausen syndrome,

00:57:34.260 Munchausen syndrome is when,

00:57:35.720 uh,

00:57:36.680 someone fake feigns an illness so that they can garner empathy and sympathy.

00:57:42.160 Munchausen syndrome by proxy is even more diabolical.

00:57:45.660 This is when you take someone who's under your care,

00:57:48.840 your pet,

00:57:49.420 your elderly parent,

00:57:51.560 typically your biological child and you harm them so that you can garner the

00:57:56.460 empathy and sympathy by proxy.

00:57:58.480 Oh,

00:57:58.640 look at me.

00:57:59.220 I'm a poor parent who has a diabetic child,

00:58:01.620 but in reality,

00:58:02.340 they're not diabetic.

00:58:03.380 You're,

00:58:03.680 you're screwing them up by,

00:58:05.080 by,

00:58:05.860 you know,

00:58:06.140 imposing an injury on them or a medical condition.

00:58:09.060 Uh,

00:58:09.500 so it's,

00:58:09.900 it's really quite a dark psychiatric condition.

00:58:12.280 It's usually women who suffer from it and it's usually their biological,

00:58:16.860 uh,

00:58:17.780 children who are,

00:58:18.920 uh,

00:58:19.420 you know,

00:58:19.720 in harm's way.

00:58:21.200 And so I,

00:58:21.620 I had written a,

00:58:22.780 a,

00:58:23.140 an academic paper on the topic.

00:58:24.580 So that's how I was familiar with this concept of Munchausen.

00:58:27.660 And so now fast forward seven,

00:58:29.780 eight,

00:58:30.040 10 years later,

00:58:30.820 where I'm seeing this orgiastic competitive,

00:58:34.880 uh,

00:58:35.680 you know,

00:58:35.940 Olympics where everybody is trying to establish that they are the biggest victim of all.

00:58:42.260 Right.

00:58:42.400 So Jussie Smollett,

00:58:43.460 it wasn't good enough for him to be,

00:58:45.540 you know,

00:58:45.760 a highly paid actor.

00:58:47.020 I mean,

00:58:47.320 fine.

00:58:47.560 He's not,

00:58:48.000 uh,

00:58:48.620 Al Pacino,

00:58:49.140 but he certainly was a well remunerated actor,

00:58:52.200 but that wasn't enough.

00:58:53.420 If I really,

00:58:54.020 I'm going to get my ego strokes,

00:58:55.740 I have to have a victimology narrative.

00:58:57.560 And if I don't have a victimology narrative,

00:58:59.740 well,

00:59:00.140 then I'll manufacture one.

00:59:01.620 Then we've got a Senator Elizabeth Warren,

00:59:04.220 who engages in collective Munchausen by proxy,

00:59:06.760 by usurping the real historical tragedy of a people by,

00:59:10.820 you know,

00:59:11.360 surfing on their history,

00:59:12.740 by pretending that she is,

00:59:13.900 you know,

00:59:14.120 native,

00:59:14.460 uh,

00:59:15.160 American.

00:59:15.900 And so that's how I had the epiphany of aha.

00:59:19.080 I shall call this collective Munchausen and collective Munchausen,

00:59:22.860 uh,

00:59:23.540 by proxy to explain this orgiastic.

00:59:26.400 Why do people do it?

00:59:27.420 Why?

00:59:27.840 Because I mean,

00:59:28.420 I understand it's like winning now to be victim-y,

00:59:31.040 but what is it satisfying some psychological need?

00:59:35.700 Well,

00:59:35.900 well,

00:59:36.260 I mean,

00:59:37.120 what,

00:59:37.360 what usually happens when,

00:59:38.800 when you are,

00:59:39.760 someone is a victim,

00:59:40.620 you go to them,

00:59:41.540 you're,

00:59:41.860 Oh,

00:59:41.980 I'm so sorry.

00:59:42.840 You pay attention to them.

00:59:44.200 You,

00:59:44.540 you,

00:59:44.980 you,

00:59:45.260 you,

00:59:45.520 you commiserate with them,

00:59:47.120 you,

00:59:47.400 right.

00:59:47.820 That there's a,

00:59:48.460 there's a whole slew of psychological needs that are uniquely met in,

00:59:53.000 in,

00:59:53.600 uh,

00:59:53.960 in me being a victim.

00:59:55.280 And of course,

00:59:56.100 there's also the idea that,

00:59:57.460 Hey,

00:59:57.580 maybe I'm going to overcome my victimhood.

01:00:00.040 Right.

01:00:00.260 I mean,

01:00:00.480 in my case,

01:00:01.620 there is true,

01:00:02.960 actual,

01:00:03.940 brutal victimhood.

01:00:04.780 By the way,

01:00:05.060 I didn't mention this,

01:00:05.800 but after we escaped Lebanon,

01:00:07.840 after all the horrors that we went through,

01:00:09.740 my parents returned to Lebanon because they had,

01:00:13.460 uh,

01:00:14.160 they still had business interests in Lebanon.

01:00:16.380 And on one of their return trips,

01:00:18.200 several years after we had emigrated to Canada,

01:00:20.980 they were kidnapped by Fatah,

01:00:23.560 one of the Palestinian groups and some horrifying things were done to them.

01:00:28.420 Uh,

01:00:28.900 and so on.

01:00:29.580 So,

01:00:30.300 uh,

01:00:30.580 so there is real power if,

01:00:33.220 if nothing other than to have people pay attention to you and having a victimhood story.

01:00:38.040 Now you might imagine to people who have truly been victimized,

01:00:41.620 you don't feel good about those other folks who fake their victimhood.

01:00:45.400 Right.

01:00:45.440 I mean,

01:00:45.880 my victimhood doesn't define me.

01:00:48.240 I,

01:00:48.600 I share my stories of victimhood because it is an indelible part of my personal history.

01:00:54.020 But actually what I'm most proud of is that I've overcome my victimhood.

01:00:58.940 Right.

01:00:59.260 I'm not defined by my victimhood.

01:01:01.260 It's part of me,

01:01:02.140 but I'm much larger than whatever happened to me in my childhood.

01:01:05.760 By the way,

01:01:06.100 I mentioned this in the book,

01:01:07.780 uh,

01:01:08.140 Megan,

01:01:08.540 uh,

01:01:09.140 for about 20,

01:01:10.200 25 years after I escaped Lebanon,

01:01:14.020 I would have recurring unbelievable nightmares.

01:01:17.480 And it was always of one of two types.

01:01:19.860 Uh,

01:01:20.440 I wake up,

01:01:21.500 you know,

01:01:22.040 in a complete terror state because,

01:01:24.320 uh,

01:01:25.120 the gun that I was using to protect myself,

01:01:28.360 this isn't the dream.

01:01:29.580 It didn't actually happen.

01:01:31.380 The gun that I'm using to protect myself against the bad guys that are coming to get me in the house

01:01:36.280 jams or in a second version of the dream,

01:01:38.860 I run out of ammunition.

01:01:40.600 And I actually did a sad truth clip on my YouTube channel where I discussed this.

01:01:45.480 And I also discussed it in the book.

01:01:46.700 And then all sorts of military folks wrote to me and said,

01:01:51.340 Oh,

01:01:51.440 Dr.

01:01:51.780 Sad,

01:01:52.340 that's actually called the warrior dream.

01:01:55.360 And many of us have had it.

01:01:56.720 Who've been in combat.

01:01:58.260 And so,

01:01:58.720 yes,

01:01:59.320 I have faced victimhood,

01:02:00.740 but I'm bigger than my victim.

01:02:02.520 I've overcome it.

01:02:04.000 But to most of these four victims,

01:02:05.920 they want to wallow in their victimhood because that's what brings,

01:02:08.800 that's what garners them empathy and sympathy.

01:02:10.580 It's grotesque.

01:02:11.240 It's diabolical.

01:02:12.020 I hate it.

01:02:13.160 I know that you've,

01:02:14.540 you've made this connection.

01:02:15.720 I have as well,

01:02:16.740 but hello,

01:02:18.080 you're totally describing Megan Markle and Prince Harry.

01:02:21.840 That's what they've been doing for the past year.

01:02:26.800 Fake victimhood.

01:02:28.440 It's like somehow they reached the top of the castle.

01:02:31.280 I mean,

01:02:31.700 literally in their case,

01:02:32.660 they made it to the castle.

01:02:34.440 And it wasn't enough.

01:02:36.760 And so they decided to craft this narrative where we were all supposed to

01:02:40.260 feel sorry for them.

01:02:41.840 Yeah.

01:02:42.020 So here I've got another explanation,

01:02:44.640 if you'd like,

01:02:45.200 by the way,

01:02:45.720 I,

01:02:46.040 I,

01:02:46.500 I released a few months ago when they,

01:02:48.960 when the Oprah thing had taken place,

01:02:51.360 where I said that my three heroines were Megan Markle,

01:02:58.020 Oprah and princess Harry.

01:03:00.360 So just to be clear,

01:03:02.280 these are my three favorite ladies in the world,

01:03:04.640 but in any case,

01:03:05.380 I've,

01:03:06.760 I've argued that.

01:03:08.020 So let me,

01:03:08.580 let me step back.

01:03:09.160 So if you take,

01:03:09.940 for example,

01:03:10.940 Hollywood celebrities,

01:03:12.160 why is it that they so often exhibit such weak epistemic humility,

01:03:17.220 meaning they don't know what they know and the things that they don't know.

01:03:20.340 Right.

01:03:20.580 I mean,

01:03:21.260 uh,

01:03:21.980 uh,

01:03:22.760 Madonna is going to solve a radioactive lake waste by throwing a Kabbalah juice on

01:03:30.380 it because,

01:03:30.880 you know,

01:03:30.960 she's better than physicists.

01:03:32.000 Right.

01:03:32.420 So how is it that they overshoot their knowledge?

01:03:35.540 Why is it that they have such poor calibration of their,

01:03:38.500 you know,

01:03:39.080 epistemic status?

01:03:41.260 And,

01:03:41.780 and I had written an article a few years ago where I basically argued,

01:03:45.040 and it's going to speak to the point again of victimhood in a second.

01:03:47.400 I'm going to link it all back,

01:03:48.640 you know,

01:03:48.940 in the deep recesses of my mind,

01:03:50.780 when I am an actor who makes $20 million and there's,

01:03:54.400 you know,

01:03:54.500 a hundred people outside my hotel waiting to meet me because I'm some sort of

01:03:57.980 God,

01:03:58.300 because I pretended to play Superman.

01:04:00.140 I know that in the deep recesses of my mind,

01:04:02.760 I'm a fraud that I'm not worthy of all that adulation because six months

01:04:06.440 earlier I was a barista at Starbucks until someone whisked me and made me

01:04:11.720 the new Avenger or Superman or whatever the show is.

01:04:14.400 Okay.

01:04:14.740 So I know that I'm a fraud,

01:04:16.420 but now one of the ways that I can,

01:04:18.160 uh,

01:04:18.960 you know,

01:04:19.280 fix that,

01:04:20.140 that existential angst or that existential guilt is by showing to the world

01:04:26.200 that I'm actually a lot deeper than that.

01:04:28.700 I can cure cancer.

01:04:29.720 I could cure aging as Gwyneth Paltrow explains to us.

01:04:33.460 I can cure radioactive lakes as a Kabbalah juice,

01:04:37.300 Madonna has told us.

01:04:38.600 Therefore I am worthy of all the adulation.

01:04:41.100 And so something similar I think happens with all the victimology stuff,

01:04:44.340 right?

01:04:44.500 Meghan Markle and the princess Harry and Oprah,

01:04:48.220 they know that they're not worthy of having this kind of accolades.

01:04:51.900 I'm not suggesting that,

01:04:52.840 you know,

01:04:53.140 Oprah doesn't deserve her accolades,

01:04:55.640 but maybe not $10 billion.

01:04:57.400 And therefore maybe I could be more deserving of it.

01:05:01.860 If I can show that I was a victim and I've overcome that shows that I'm truly special.

01:05:08.740 Now,

01:05:08.860 if I'm not a victim,

01:05:09.820 then I will manufacture one.

01:05:11.200 So I really think it all boils down to a sense of existential guilt,

01:05:15.640 which I then redress by manufacturing a BS story.

01:05:19.900 Hmm.

01:05:21.140 You know,

01:05:21.680 I also think in her case,

01:05:23.260 Markle's case,

01:05:24.380 she was getting beaten up by the press after all of her,

01:05:28.020 you know,

01:05:28.620 behind the scenes stuff in the palace.

01:05:30.340 And she tried to wokeify Harry and she went to some women's shelter and wrote messages like,

01:05:35.740 be strong on bananas and thought it was going to be life-changing.

01:05:38.520 And lo and behold,

01:05:38.880 it wasn't and people didn't find that particularly empowering from her.

01:05:42.280 A woman who'd gave up her country,

01:05:43.780 gave up her religion,

01:05:44.660 gave up her entire family,

01:05:45.840 gave up her job to move across the pond so she could marry a prince.

01:05:48.820 So they really didn't,

01:05:49.740 they didn't really want her feminine empowering messages on bananas.

01:05:54.280 Um,

01:05:54.760 but it happened.

01:05:55.560 Anyway,

01:05:55.740 the press started to turn on her as it,

01:05:57.460 as it often does.

01:05:59.220 I mean,

01:05:59.360 they just love to build you up and tear you down no matter who you are.

01:06:01.700 And in her case,

01:06:02.240 she gave them enough fodder that they had it.

01:06:03.920 And I think for her,

01:06:05.020 it was a bit of a Hail Mary too.

01:06:06.680 Like it was a,

01:06:08.220 you know,

01:06:08.480 you can't write any more bad things about me because I am someone to be

01:06:13.220 pitied.

01:06:13.820 I am someone who has mental health challenges.

01:06:16.280 I am someone who's been the victim of bullies in the press and inside the

01:06:20.720 palace.

01:06:21.580 And I'm warning you all,

01:06:23.220 I,

01:06:23.620 I'm not going to take any more of this because I'm playing the ultimate card.

01:06:27.500 Like the suicide card is the ultimate card,

01:06:30.180 um,

01:06:31.240 to shut you down because I don't,

01:06:32.880 I don't like what you're saying about me.

01:06:35.420 Exactly.

01:06:35.940 It's diabolical,

01:06:36.780 isn't it?

01:06:37.200 But by the way,

01:06:38.260 this kind of,

01:06:38.980 uh,

01:06:39.660 victimhood,

01:06:40.320 uh,

01:06:40.940 ethos,

01:06:41.440 I see it even in the context of,

01:06:43.540 you know,

01:06:43.780 day-to-day life in academia.

01:06:44.980 And here I don't mean to belittle the real possibility that people do suffer

01:06:50.640 from real mental health,

01:06:52.200 uh,

01:06:52.700 disability issues.

01:06:53.820 So,

01:06:54.320 so I'm certainly not trying to do that,

01:06:55.600 but if I can,

01:06:56.640 I've been a professor long enough,

01:06:58.300 almost 30 years.

01:06:59.420 I'm in my 27th year that if I were to do a,

01:07:02.960 a longitudinal study of the number of emails that I received from the office of,

01:07:08.260 I don't remember the official name,

01:07:09.620 but the office of disabilities at my university,

01:07:12.280 say in 1994,

01:07:13.360 when I had finished my PhD and became a professor to now,

01:07:17.000 there seems to have been a,

01:07:18.100 a huge increase in the number of disabled students.

01:07:22.280 Now,

01:07:22.580 some might fully be true that they truly do suffer from very serious situations.

01:07:27.500 And of course we should fully accommodate them.

01:07:29.960 But for example,

01:07:30.840 when you suffer from,

01:07:32.660 you know,

01:07:33.600 uh,

01:07:34.160 exam induced anxiety,

01:07:36.780 yeah,

01:07:37.420 that's called life,

01:07:38.920 right?

01:07:39.240 So I mean,

01:07:39.840 most people,

01:07:41.440 when before they go to an exam,

01:07:43.660 their heart races,

01:07:45.140 right?

01:07:45.520 It's called the natural state of things,

01:07:47.420 but now we pathologize that.

01:07:49.760 So therefore I get all sorts of students that require extra accommodation.

01:07:53.780 Now I never find out what the,

01:07:55.480 what their stories are.

01:07:56.260 And I don't want to find out.

01:07:57.200 I just simply,

01:07:57.820 you know,

01:07:58.260 acquiesce to whatever the office wants me to do because I'm just mandated to do so.

01:08:02.420 But I,

01:08:02.860 if I just look at the longitudinal data,

01:08:04.720 there seems to have been a huge spike in students who suffer from these sort of amorphous

01:08:09.860 disabilities.

01:08:10.380 So again,

01:08:10.980 that speaks to the fact that we are rewarding,

01:08:13.720 you know,

01:08:15.160 this fragile mindset.

01:08:17.340 And if I may want,

01:08:19.400 I want to share a personal story with you.

01:08:21.480 That is exactly the opposite of the ethos of victimology.

01:08:24.540 And I,

01:08:24.900 and I discussed the story in the person.

01:08:26.780 So after I finished my MBA,

01:08:30.080 I had always planned on going on,

01:08:32.000 you know,

01:08:32.200 to do my PhD.

01:08:33.140 I always wanted to be a,

01:08:34.360 an academic,

01:08:35.320 but after I finished my MBA,

01:08:37.800 I was visiting several doctoral programs that had invited me.

01:08:41.600 One of which was at the university of California,

01:08:43.740 Irvine.

01:08:44.360 And at the time,

01:08:45.340 my breath,

01:08:45.720 one of my brothers lived in Southern California and he was very keen on having me work with him.

01:08:49.840 He was in the software business.

01:08:51.740 This is in 1990.

01:08:53.740 And so he said,

01:08:55.940 you know what,

01:08:56.320 why don't you consider,

01:08:58.200 you know,

01:08:58.780 putting on the proverbial suit after your MBA,

01:09:01.180 working with me for a few years,

01:09:02.580 and then you can go back and,

01:09:04.320 you know,

01:09:04.800 obtain your PhD.

01:09:06.360 Now,

01:09:06.620 I wasn't really interested in doing that,

01:09:07.900 but,

01:09:08.100 you know,

01:09:08.200 he's my older brother.

01:09:09.060 So I was,

01:09:09.560 you know,

01:09:09.860 agreeing to,

01:09:10.700 you know,

01:09:10.820 I was humoring him by,

01:09:13.140 by,

01:09:13.500 by agreeing to his suggestions.

01:09:15.840 Now,

01:09:16.300 when I returned to Montreal and my mother had caught wind of the fact that my brother was trying to convince me to take a break after my MBA,

01:09:22.900 she took me to a side room and she said,

01:09:25.220 God,

01:09:25.420 I heard about this story.

01:09:26.960 Are you really thinking about it?

01:09:28.640 I said,

01:09:28.960 well,

01:09:29.120 what do you ask?

01:09:29.660 She goes,

01:09:30.220 well,

01:09:30.400 do you want people to know you as somebody who dropped out of school?

01:09:35.300 So let's step back here and think about this.

01:09:37.800 I had a bachelor's degree in mathematics and computer science from,

01:09:40.860 you know,

01:09:41.220 a leading university.

01:09:42.140 I had an MBA from a leading university,

01:09:44.700 but to my mother,

01:09:45.960 if I walked away temporarily from my education,

01:09:50.400 I would bring shame to the family as a school dropout.

01:09:56.480 So,

01:09:57.380 you know,

01:09:57.800 part of who we are is our genes,

01:09:59.540 but part of who we are is the cultural ethos that we are inculcated with.

01:10:03.980 So I come from an ethos of winning right now.

01:10:07.660 I'm not saying I did my PhD because of my parents,

01:10:09.720 of course not,

01:10:10.440 but that's the kind of level of excellence.

01:10:13.120 That's the threshold of excellence that is set for me.

01:10:16.760 And,

01:10:16.800 and that's by the way,

01:10:18.260 one of the reasons why people say the Jews are so successful,

01:10:20.560 because,

01:10:21.140 you know,

01:10:21.600 you can,

01:10:22.180 you can hear similar stories to the one that I just enunciate,

01:10:26.000 enunciated across many,

01:10:27.520 many Jews.

01:10:28.320 Is that not what we want to be bottling?

01:10:31.160 Or should we be saying,

01:10:32.600 please,

01:10:33.020 you know,

01:10:33.320 roll over,

01:10:33.940 suck your thumbs in a fetal position and cry that you're a victim.

01:10:36.940 It,

01:10:37.040 it annoys the hell out of me.

01:10:38.520 Where's personal agency?

01:10:40.140 Where's dignity?

01:10:41.200 Where's the strive for excellence?

01:10:42.720 We're not breeding students who will do this.

01:10:45.620 And then we call that empowering.

01:10:48.280 We call,

01:10:49.120 we call that leaning into one's victimhood,

01:10:51.920 one's weaknesses,

01:10:53.460 one's traits that are not so attractive.

01:10:56.880 Empowering.

01:10:57.460 You're just supposed to embrace them.

01:10:59.600 And that's owning it.

01:11:01.920 It's like the whole,

01:11:02.640 I said this recently,

01:11:04.040 the whole Naomi Osaka thing.

01:11:06.060 She doesn't like to talk to the press.

01:11:07.360 She has some social anxiety when speaking in public.

01:11:09.960 Allegedly,

01:11:10.320 it didn't stop her from,

01:11:11.420 from going out there with her BLM masks and making points when it came to her social activism.

01:11:16.360 But when someone wants to ask her why she's not so good on clay,

01:11:19.100 suddenly her mental deficiency or challenge,

01:11:22.020 whatever it is,

01:11:23.100 makes it impossible for her to go out there.

01:11:25.580 Okay.

01:11:25.680 Back in my day,

01:11:26.700 you know,

01:11:27.420 my mom would have said that boo F and who get out there and do your job.

01:11:32.020 This is part of the job.

01:11:32.920 All the other players are doing it.

01:11:34.480 You're not going to be the weak one.

01:11:35.620 Who's going to be crying in her soup back in her hotel room.

01:11:38.200 This is how life works.

01:11:39.580 And honestly,

01:11:40.320 God,

01:11:40.540 if I had avoided the microphones,

01:11:42.440 every time the press said something nasty about me or went to the place that hurts,

01:11:46.400 I wouldn't have anywhere near the success I have right now.

01:11:49.400 Right.

01:11:49.540 It's like,

01:11:49.880 it's part of it.

01:11:51.920 Overcoming challenges and difficult situations.

01:11:53.920 It is,

01:11:54.540 as you say,

01:11:55.460 life.

01:11:56.500 And instead,

01:11:57.300 now we've got 50,000 articles on how she is a leader and is setting the example on female

01:12:02.820 empowerment.

01:12:03.440 And they taught her in my daughter's school last week as an example of that.

01:12:06.500 And I said,

01:12:07.300 no,

01:12:07.980 no,

01:12:08.340 Yardley,

01:12:08.640 she's not.

01:12:09.620 Let me give you another way of looking at it.

01:12:11.940 Yeah,

01:12:12.260 you're,

01:12:12.620 you're exactly right.

01:12:14.040 I would add this.

01:12:15.260 I mean,

01:12:15.420 I think we both have young,

01:12:16.880 pretty young children.

01:12:18.640 I don't know how you feel about this,

01:12:20.080 but let's,

01:12:20.760 let's explore it.

01:12:22.400 For example,

01:12:22.880 I find it ridiculous that we have to spend 600,

01:12:25.980 different events to celebrate someone graduating from kindergarten or grade six.

01:12:30.080 My doctorate at Cornell garnered less attention than my daughter's grade six graduation.

01:12:35.640 Now I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't be celebrating her graduation,

01:12:39.140 but I'm not sure that we need to book summer of 2021 with 7,000 events because you graduated

01:12:46.140 from grade six.

01:12:47.340 Now this is not an attack on my daughter,

01:12:49.780 right?

01:12:50.080 But it's,

01:12:50.420 it's,

01:12:50.740 it's a manifestation of that celebratory ethos,

01:12:54.020 right?

01:12:54.380 It's the,

01:12:54.860 you know,

01:12:55.020 the,

01:12:55.140 the trophy,

01:12:55.980 right?

01:12:56.660 I mean,

01:12:56.900 I used to be a very competitive soccer player,

01:12:58.860 right?

01:12:59.300 When we played soccer,

01:13:00.960 I always joke that if,

01:13:02.520 if I were,

01:13:03.380 if I had a recording of the trash talking that went on amongst competitive soccer players

01:13:10.080 on the field,

01:13:10.840 that every single one of us would have been sent to St.

01:13:13.740 Quentin for linguistic capital crimes,

01:13:16.560 right?

01:13:17.200 But guess what?

01:13:18.480 I learned to love again,

01:13:19.820 right?

01:13:20.280 You trash talk me.

01:13:21.500 I trash,

01:13:22.040 you talk.

01:13:22.540 I trash talk back to you.

01:13:24.140 I scored a goal on you.

01:13:25.440 You called my mother.

01:13:26.360 This I go now,

01:13:27.300 again,

01:13:27.580 but I'm not suggesting that we be crass and uncouth and impolite,

01:13:31.900 but anti-fragility breeds strong personhood.

01:13:36.260 So,

01:13:36.700 you know,

01:13:36.820 stop being whips.

01:13:38.380 And the irony of it all is that these are the nastiest people on the internet.

01:13:43.160 The ones who want to lecture the rest of us on their mental health and how to protect

01:13:46.860 it and how we need to not bully and use the proper inclusive language are the meanest,

01:13:51.800 nastiest bullies out there.

01:13:54.220 No kidding.

01:13:54.980 Absolutely true.

01:13:55.840 Well,

01:13:55.880 that,

01:13:56.060 I mean,

01:13:56.440 Freud was wrong on many things,

01:13:58.360 but he certainly wasn't wrong about the process of projection,

01:14:01.240 was it?

01:14:02.260 Hmm.

01:14:02.960 So let's talk about your background on,

01:14:05.100 on psychology and,

01:14:07.220 and your understanding of the differences between men and women.

01:14:09.600 And this is one of the reasons why you take editorial risks,

01:14:12.580 I think,

01:14:13.040 in your selection of topics that you,

01:14:15.700 that you'll focus on.

01:14:16.420 So this is good.

01:14:17.540 Um,

01:14:18.280 you were actually talking about the differences between men and women and the differences

01:14:21.740 in what hormones will do to your testosterone levels and so on.

01:14:25.040 And like a woman may buy more beauty products when a certain part of her cycle,

01:14:30.100 right?

01:14:30.280 Do I basically,

01:14:31.400 that's probably too short.

01:14:33.360 Thank you for having done your homework.

01:14:35.000 Yeah.

01:14:35.460 So what I basically do in my scientific work is I apply the evolutionary lens.

01:14:42.140 So in the same way that we could use evolution to explain how a species has evolved,

01:14:47.040 the way that we explain how biodiversity exists,

01:14:49.820 right?

01:14:50.140 Why does the salamander make the way that it does?

01:14:53.040 Why does a particular flower have its morphological features?

01:14:56.040 So evolution can be used to explain the,

01:14:58.840 well,

01:14:59.020 the evolution of biodiversity,

01:15:00.360 but it can be also used to explain a particular trait in a particular animal.

01:15:05.600 So,

01:15:05.840 you know,

01:15:06.020 why do we have the pancreas the way that we do?

01:15:08.780 Why is our eye shaped the way that it is?

01:15:11.280 Now,

01:15:11.600 evolutionary psychology is simply taking this exact framework and applying it to the most

01:15:17.320 important organ that defines our personhood.

01:15:20.080 That organ is called our brain,

01:15:22.120 our mind,

01:15:22.620 right?

01:15:23.560 Now to all sorts of imbeciles,

01:15:25.640 this is a contentious idea because they're perfectly happy to use evolutionary theory to

01:15:31.960 explain everything.

01:15:33.080 As long as the everything stops at the neck,

01:15:35.800 everything above the neck must be due to some mysterious other force.

01:15:39.800 It must be due to culture.

01:15:40.960 It must be due to socialization.

01:15:42.520 It must be due to God,

01:15:43.800 but don't you dare,

01:15:45.040 Dr.

01:15:45.340 Saad use the same evolutionary principle to explain the behavior of the mosquito,

01:15:49.700 the dog and humans.

01:15:50.880 Humans somehow exist on a supra plane above their biology.

01:15:54.960 Now,

01:15:55.440 in some small way,

01:15:57.320 of course,

01:15:57.720 it is true that humans are both a cultural and a biological animal.

01:16:01.960 But to negate the fact that we are biological beings is basically to reject realities that are as obvious as the existence of the sun.

01:16:10.340 And so what I do in my scientific work is I take evolutionary psychology and I apply it to understand human behavior in general,

01:16:19.320 and consumer behavior in particular.

01:16:21.340 So the example that you said about the beautification products.

01:16:24.960 So with one of my graduate students,

01:16:26.640 I had done a very,

01:16:28.440 very large study where we looked at the patterns of consumer choices and preferences that women engage in as a function of where they are in their menstrual cycle.

01:16:38.080 The idea being that,

01:16:39.520 of course,

01:16:40.400 these kinds of physiological and behavioral changes didn't come mysteriously from God or from the cloud.

01:16:46.820 They came because of certain evolutionary principles.

01:16:49.500 So,

01:16:49.700 for example,

01:16:50.300 when it comes to beautification,

01:16:52.740 it turns out that across many,

01:16:54.400 many animals,

01:16:55.360 females of the species are much more likely to engage in sexual signaling when they are in the maximally fertile phase of their cycle.

01:17:03.260 So,

01:17:03.480 for example,

01:17:04.600 female chimps will have engorged and reddened genitalia.

01:17:11.080 Well,

01:17:11.500 fortunately,

01:17:11.900 in the human context,

01:17:12.960 it's not quite as conspicuous,

01:17:14.900 but women will engage in behavioral patterns that speak to the exact same phenomenon.

01:17:21.540 So,

01:17:21.800 for example,

01:17:22.960 women are much more likely to dress in a scantily clad manner,

01:17:26.900 to wear stiletto heels,

01:17:28.800 to beautify their faces with cosmetics,

01:17:31.300 when they are in the maximally fertile phase of their menstrual cycle.

01:17:35.860 Wait,

01:17:36.120 now here's a question for you.

01:17:36.960 Is that true of a lesbian in a lesbian relationship too?

01:17:40.800 Oh,

01:17:41.060 wow.

01:17:41.240 What a great question.

01:17:42.260 So,

01:17:42.640 I was going to answer exactly that question with one of my graduate students who has since gone on to pursue other interests,

01:17:51.720 where we were trying to take all of these evolutionary principles that I've been studying for nearly three decades,

01:17:57.640 and precisely applying in the same-sex market.

01:18:02.220 So,

01:18:02.500 regrettably,

01:18:03.060 I don't have that answer for you,

01:18:04.620 but I was hoping to have that answer for you.

01:18:06.580 Yeah,

01:18:06.720 so you've got to go get it.

01:18:07.860 Because,

01:18:08.120 you know,

01:18:08.380 obviously the question is,

01:18:09.340 right,

01:18:09.460 when there's no chance of biological reproduction with this mate,

01:18:12.600 do I engage in the same,

01:18:14.160 you know,

01:18:15.640 strategies?

01:18:16.120 It would be interesting to know,

01:18:18.420 or even just,

01:18:19.660 I don't know,

01:18:20.300 like,

01:18:21.500 a couple in which I would assume,

01:18:23.640 like,

01:18:23.880 the guy had a vasectomy.

01:18:27.780 All the same instincts are probably still there,

01:18:29.900 even though they know reproduction's not possible.

01:18:32.240 Exactly.

01:18:32.560 So,

01:18:32.820 one of the ways that we were planning on to getting at what you're so beautifully getting at

01:18:39.020 is through the sex roles of the same-sex couple.

01:18:43.560 So,

01:18:44.440 our working hypothesis,

01:18:45.720 and again,

01:18:46.200 I'm sorry,

01:18:46.680 I'm going to leave the listeners,

01:18:48.440 you know,

01:18:49.460 without closure,

01:18:51.080 because we haven't read those.

01:18:51.920 Wanting more.

01:18:52.740 Wanting more.

01:18:53.400 For the next time.

01:18:54.220 Thank you.

01:18:55.460 What we were hoping to study is,

01:18:57.320 for example,

01:18:57.720 when it comes to same-sex male couples,

01:19:01.960 of course,

01:19:02.580 there are,

01:19:03.400 as you know,

01:19:04.500 there are what are called versatiles.

01:19:06.820 There are what's called exclusive bottoms,

01:19:09.380 and exclusive tops.

01:19:10.800 Are you familiar with these terms?

01:19:12.380 No.

01:19:12.820 Was it?

01:19:13.560 No.

01:19:13.960 So,

01:19:14.300 an exclusive top would be someone who is the giver in the sexual act.

01:19:19.500 Oh,

01:19:19.640 in a male sex relationship.

01:19:21.820 Okay.

01:19:22.160 Yes,

01:19:22.380 I've got it figured out now.

01:19:23.400 Took me a second.

01:19:24.520 Yeah.

01:19:24.740 Okay.

01:19:25.040 And of course,

01:19:25.600 so you get the bottom,

01:19:26.720 and you get versatile.

01:19:27.560 And so what we were hoping to study is whether that sexual differentiation,

01:19:34.120 since in lieu of the fact that you don't have male and female in this case,

01:19:37.340 you have same-sex,

01:19:38.880 but with different sexual proclivities,

01:19:42.040 might we be able to see the same sex differences in the heterosexual context replicated in this way,

01:19:49.440 with same sex.

01:19:50.460 So I was really,

01:19:51.840 really excited about that project.

01:19:54.000 And I actually had discussed it on air once with Dave Rubin,

01:19:59.700 but it never materialized.

01:20:01.580 So maybe if some students-

01:20:02.760 That's funny,

01:20:02.920 because I have also discussed male sex positions with Dave Rubin.

01:20:06.500 Actually,

01:20:06.980 that happened.

01:20:08.380 That literally did happen on my program.

01:20:11.140 Wait,

01:20:11.260 I have one question about something that you wrote.

01:20:14.040 Sure.

01:20:14.300 Because it raised sort of a joke that I've made before for me,

01:20:17.540 and I'm like,

01:20:17.960 oh my God,

01:20:18.320 I was actually right.

01:20:20.840 This is from your paper in 2009,

01:20:22.940 the effect of conspicuous consumption on men's testosterone levels.

01:20:27.740 And you write in here about how testosterone levels increase after driving an expensive sports car

01:20:32.720 for some guys,

01:20:34.220 and decrease after driving an old family sedan.

01:20:37.400 And then there was a line about how testosterone also increased

01:20:40.640 when men's social status was threatened by wealth displays of a fellow male in the presence of a woman.

01:20:49.860 And get it.

01:20:50.240 Let me tell you what this reminds me of.

01:20:52.220 Some girlfriends and I were joking about,

01:20:56.000 forgive the term,

01:20:57.120 but all these dick pics that guys decide to send to women.

01:21:00.060 It's like,

01:21:00.560 no woman wants that.

01:21:01.700 That is,

01:21:02.300 and I've said,

01:21:03.380 like jokingly,

01:21:04.320 you'd be better off sending her a picture of your pay stub.

01:21:07.700 I think I'm right.

01:21:08.760 I think you have proved me right in this.

01:21:10.900 You are 100% right.

01:21:12.380 So many things to unpack here.

01:21:14.360 Okay.

01:21:14.480 Number one,

01:21:15.740 I have to tell you,

01:21:16.600 and I'm not trying to blow smoke up your proverbial,

01:21:19.540 you know what,

01:21:20.300 but I've never been on a show where someone is as well prepared.

01:21:24.520 That's why you are the honey badger,

01:21:26.700 Megyn Kelly.

01:21:27.380 So thank you for having actually read those papers.

01:21:30.000 It's been my pleasure.

01:21:31.500 Yeah.

01:21:31.780 Thank you.

01:21:32.820 Regarding the,

01:21:33.740 to use your term,

01:21:35.700 dick pics,

01:21:36.320 I recently held a chat with Eva Lovia,

01:21:39.180 who is a,

01:21:40.060 that's her professional adult film star,

01:21:43.400 you know,

01:21:44.300 name.

01:21:46.080 I've been on her show and she's been on mine.

01:21:48.180 And we've talked about dick pics.

01:21:50.400 And there,

01:21:50.880 what I tried to explain exactly in line with what you said,

01:21:53.960 men are exhibiting a lack of theory of mind.

01:21:56.720 In this case,

01:21:57.280 theory of mind is the mechanism by which,

01:21:59.360 you know,

01:22:00.140 in order to have human sociality,

01:22:01.900 you have to have theory of mind,

01:22:03.240 meaning that I have to know what is in Megan's mind to be able to predict

01:22:07.980 what to say to her.

01:22:08.860 So for example,

01:22:09.340 autistic children,

01:22:10.280 one of the ways that we diagnose them as being autistic is they fail very

01:22:15.160 early developmentally on these theory of mind tests.

01:22:17.980 Well,

01:22:18.260 men in sending pictures of dick pics are failing in theory of mind,

01:22:22.740 because what are they doing?

01:22:23.660 They're saying,

01:22:24.660 I,

01:22:25.260 as a man,

01:22:25.860 I am sexually aroused by visual stimuli.

01:22:29.920 Therefore,

01:22:30.500 it must be the case that women are under the same physiological response

01:22:35.780 patterns.

01:22:36.600 Therefore,

01:22:36.780 if I send her a picture of my genitalia,

01:22:39.460 she's going to find me,

01:22:40.360 you know,

01:22:41.200 desirable beyond belief.

01:22:42.580 And so they are fit.

01:22:43.480 That's why they should be taking Dr.

01:22:44.940 Saad's evolutionary psychology one-on-one course,

01:22:47.060 because as you said,

01:22:48.240 women are not interested in dick pics,

01:22:49.960 but now to come to the conspicuous consumption testosterone.

01:22:52.860 Do you want me to comment about that study?

01:22:54.720 Yeah.

01:22:55.100 Yeah.

01:22:55.480 Yeah.

01:22:55.700 I mean,

01:22:56.100 I think I understand the reason why the testosterone is it increases when

01:23:01.200 you're,

01:23:01.800 when you see another wealth display by a fellow male in the presence of a

01:23:05.620 woman over there,

01:23:06.420 it's like,

01:23:06.860 Oh,

01:23:07.100 he's,

01:23:07.520 he's doing better than I am in the society that values wealth.

01:23:11.720 Exactly.

01:23:12.560 So,

01:23:13.280 but I'm going to give you the background to both the study that you just

01:23:17.260 mentioned and the previous one where you,

01:23:18.920 where you talked about the menstrual cycle.

01:23:20.240 I decided to run both those sets of studies.

01:23:24.580 One was published.

01:23:25.840 The menstrual cycle one was published in 2012.

01:23:28.660 The,

01:23:28.840 the conspicuous consumption testosterone was published in 2009.

01:23:32.960 I had chosen two graduate students to work with on these projects precisely

01:23:37.560 because I wanted to find physiological based phenomena that I could

01:23:43.140 demonstrate so that it would make it a lot harder for social

01:23:47.060 constructivists to argue,

01:23:48.660 Oh,

01:23:49.040 but professors that that's just due to social construction,

01:23:51.520 right?

01:23:51.860 When you're showing data that is hormonal based,

01:23:55.440 it's a lot more difficult to argue that it's due to random patriarchy and

01:23:59.640 socialization.

01:24:00.300 So that's kind of the background for why I,

01:24:02.200 I honed in on these studies.

01:24:04.120 Yeah.

01:24:04.720 The,

01:24:04.940 the probably of all the studies that I've ever published and I've received,

01:24:09.540 you know,

01:24:09.760 tons of media attention to the one that you honed in on is the one that

01:24:14.000 garnered the not surprisingly the most attention,

01:24:16.960 but let me give you some sort of cool background stories to that study.

01:24:21.340 So this was a study that I had done with a former graduate student of mine

01:24:25.800 named John Vungas,

01:24:26.780 who's now a professor himself at Ithaca college.

01:24:29.800 As we were running the studies.

01:24:32.540 Well,

01:24:32.660 first of all,

01:24:33.200 I always joke,

01:24:34.140 although it's true that imagine trying to obtain scientific grant money,

01:24:40.780 where you are saying,

01:24:42.340 we'd like to rent a Porsche for weekends for scientific purposes and actually

01:24:49.220 convince a scientific granting agency to give you that money.

01:24:52.540 Well,

01:24:52.680 guess what?

01:24:53.060 We were able to do it.

01:24:54.180 You did.

01:24:54.520 But now,

01:24:55.380 yeah,

01:24:55.580 exactly.

01:24:56.240 But what was incredible is one day I received,

01:24:58.840 it was maybe,

01:24:59.400 you know,

01:24:59.660 nine 30 at night.

01:25:01.160 I receive a frantic call from my coauthor who was then my graduate student.

01:25:05.920 And usually,

01:25:06.740 you know,

01:25:06.880 they don't call me that late at night and he's frantic because one of the

01:25:10.820 participants had jammed the gear of the Porsche and now it was going to cost

01:25:17.520 us a lot of money to fix it.

01:25:19.580 And we didn't.

01:25:20.980 So,

01:25:21.300 so that's sort of some of the background to,

01:25:24.100 you know,

01:25:24.220 you only get to see the final version of the study.

01:25:27.280 You get this erudite final product.

01:25:29.100 Meanwhile,

01:25:29.360 behind the scenes,

01:25:29.960 it's like,

01:25:30.340 Holy shit,

01:25:30.740 it's stuck in fourth gear.

01:25:32.720 Exactly.

01:25:33.260 Yeah.

01:25:33.460 So,

01:25:33.660 but that's,

01:25:34.100 what's beautiful about science is that it's,

01:25:35.720 it's such a beautiful,

01:25:37.400 fun journey.

01:25:38.120 I mean,

01:25:38.300 that's why I always tell people that if you're really going to make a go of it

01:25:42.140 as an academic,

01:25:42.900 you have to view research as,

01:25:45.680 as play.

01:25:46.500 I mean,

01:25:46.700 it's serious.

01:25:47.340 You have to do it seriously and in an austere manner,

01:25:50.740 but it's,

01:25:52.200 I,

01:25:52.440 I can't believe that I'm being paid to look for interesting problems and go

01:25:57.160 out there and see if the data supports my hypothesis.

01:26:00.000 It's like,

01:26:00.360 I'm a kid in a candy store.

01:26:01.360 It's wonderful.

01:26:02.620 Don't leave me now.

01:26:03.580 We got more coming up in 60 seconds.

01:26:05.240 Let me ask you a personal question on this same sort of subject.

01:26:12.800 My audience has heard me say before,

01:26:14.300 I've,

01:26:14.480 I've always sort of thought that I was a woman who had a little bit more than,

01:26:17.840 than my,

01:26:18.640 than the normal share of testosterone.

01:26:20.080 And I,

01:26:20.720 I've said that just in terms of the way I approach life.

01:26:23.800 I,

01:26:24.020 a lot of times I feel more like a guy in my thinking today.

01:26:27.020 They'd be telling me I secretly am a guy and I need to transition to man.

01:26:30.340 You know,

01:26:30.680 I'm all woman.

01:26:31.320 But this is one of my problems with this whole,

01:26:34.480 these transgender activists,

01:26:35.900 stop trying to recruit people from our gender.

01:26:37.980 We're fine.

01:26:38.720 Women being a woman is a big tent.

01:26:40.280 Being a man is a big tent.

01:26:41.180 You don't have to cross over to cause you're not,

01:26:43.000 you're not conforming in every way.

01:26:44.840 Sorry.

01:26:45.700 That's an aside.

01:26:46.760 But I actually did.

01:26:48.060 And you know,

01:26:48.500 all the many batteries of tests that you get annually,

01:26:51.260 whatever.

01:26:51.540 At one point they tested testosterone.

01:26:54.000 Maybe I was pregnant.

01:26:54.600 I can't remember why trying to get pregnant and it was totally normal.

01:26:58.060 So I don't actually have higher levels of testosterone.

01:27:00.420 So what do you think explains,

01:27:03.740 you know,

01:27:04.540 a woman who thinks more like a man and that has like a higher risk tolerance,

01:27:10.100 like a lot of men do and so on.

01:27:12.200 And a man who may have more sort of traits of a female,

01:27:15.800 but,

01:27:16.060 but isn't,

01:27:17.400 you know,

01:27:17.780 they're not gay and they're not trans and that,

01:27:19.460 you know,

01:27:19.580 like if the,

01:27:20.800 if the actual hormones don't reflect that,

01:27:22.980 how does that happen?

01:27:24.280 That's just all socialization.

01:27:25.460 Would you say?

01:27:26.020 I mean,

01:27:27.020 look on any,

01:27:29.260 you know,

01:27:29.480 most traits are normally distributed,

01:27:31.880 right?

01:27:32.120 Meaning that,

01:27:32.860 you know,

01:27:33.340 most people are at some,

01:27:34.640 some mean.

01:27:35.640 So take for example,

01:27:36.560 height,

01:27:36.880 very few people are six foot eight and very few people are,

01:27:39.560 you know,

01:27:39.920 four foot nine.

01:27:40.940 And there's kind of a normal distribution.

01:27:43.120 So even within,

01:27:45.400 you know,

01:27:46.140 clearly sexually dimorphic traits,

01:27:48.300 meaning for example,

01:27:49.620 you know,

01:27:50.060 men on average are taller than women,

01:27:52.140 men on average way more than women.

01:27:53.620 And the,

01:27:54.300 the,

01:27:54.620 the statistical distributions overlap,

01:27:56.960 right?

01:27:57.400 You know,

01:27:57.820 every single WNBA player,

01:28:00.460 female player in the,

01:28:01.480 in the women's league of NBA is taller than most men walking today.

01:28:06.340 Right.

01:28:06.780 That,

01:28:07.220 that doesn't mean that it falsifies the idea that men are taller than women.

01:28:10.120 Right.

01:28:10.420 A single datum doesn't disprove something that is true at the population level.

01:28:14.520 So,

01:28:15.300 so whether it be testosterone or whether it be social dominance orientation,

01:28:20.440 right?

01:28:20.600 So for example,

01:28:21.000 some women are a lot more socially dominant than even most men.

01:28:25.060 So you can take a test to see if how you score on social dominance.

01:28:28.140 I suspect that if you,

01:28:29.220 if you took it,

01:28:30.380 Megan,

01:28:30.660 you'd probably score high on that.

01:28:32.360 I think it's a combination of genes and,

01:28:34.780 and the socialization for most traits,

01:28:37.700 we are an inextricable mix of both.

01:28:40.340 And if,

01:28:40.880 if I can give a vivid way of remembering this,

01:28:45.300 because it's one that I use in my lecture.

01:28:47.220 So take for example,

01:28:48.400 a cake,

01:28:49.200 when you first begin to,

01:28:50.880 to bake the cake before you actually do anything,

01:28:53.740 each of the ingredients is clearly shown.

01:28:55.880 Here are the eggs.

01:28:56.680 Here's the butter.

01:28:57.640 Here's the baking soda.

01:28:58.860 Here's the whatever.

01:29:00.260 But then I bake the cake.

01:29:01.900 Now it becomes an inextricable melange.

01:29:04.200 If I told you,

01:29:04.840 please point to the eggs,

01:29:06.120 you wouldn't be able to please point to the sugar.

01:29:08.000 You wouldn't be able to.

01:29:09.480 Well,

01:29:10.160 nature versus nurture is exactly that.

01:29:12.740 For most traits,

01:29:13.640 we are an inextricable mix of both.

01:29:15.580 The only question is,

01:29:17.160 depending on the trait,

01:29:18.520 will determine how much is nature or nurture.

01:29:21.860 So to answer your question in a round,

01:29:24.220 in a long winded way,

01:29:25.840 it is both due to your genes and to your environment and your socialization.

01:29:31.560 Now I could tell you this,

01:29:32.380 by the way,

01:29:32.740 you might want to test this.

01:29:34.340 There is something called,

01:29:35.600 now some people disagree about this morphological trait,

01:29:38.080 but there is quite a bit of evidence in support of it.

01:29:40.700 There's something called the 2D-4D digit ratio,

01:29:44.340 which I'm sure you'll run quickly after our meeting to measure yours.

01:29:48.140 The 2D-4D is basically your index finger to your ring finger.

01:29:54.900 And this is a sexually dimorphic trait in that.

01:29:57.980 Wait, I'm doing it now.

01:29:58.980 You put your index finger next to your ring finger?

01:30:02.300 That's right.

01:30:02.920 So in women,

01:30:04.800 the lengths of those two fingers tend to be the same length.

01:30:10.780 In men,

01:30:12.020 the ring finger is quite a bit longer than the index finger.

01:30:17.820 Now you might say,

01:30:18.380 well,

01:30:18.540 you might say,

01:30:20.600 well,

01:30:20.720 why?

01:30:21.120 So who cares?

01:30:21.740 What is that?

01:30:22.160 Well,

01:30:22.720 it turns out that that morphological trait is a putative marker of how much you've been exposed

01:30:30.040 to androgens,

01:30:31.020 testosterone in utero.

01:30:33.000 So on average,

01:30:34.440 men will have,

01:30:35.780 you know,

01:30:36.340 longer,

01:30:37.060 you know,

01:30:38.120 ring fingers than index fingers.

01:30:40.180 Women will have more equal,

01:30:41.840 but within men and within women,

01:30:43.900 there will be differences so that some men will have more feminized digit ratios.

01:30:47.500 And so I'm wondering,

01:30:49.420 I'd be very curious whether you want to share it now or at some future point,

01:30:53.560 if what you're saying is true about you,

01:30:56.260 quote,

01:30:56.580 having higher testosterone,

01:30:57.840 even though you ended up not having,

01:30:59.460 I wonder how your 2D,

01:31:01.800 4D ratio would look like compared to-

01:31:03.460 All right,

01:31:03.620 I'm looking at it right now.

01:31:04.860 So when I tried to take the right index finger and shove it over there next to the left ring finger,

01:31:09.700 I couldn't do it.

01:31:10.780 It wasn't,

01:31:11.380 but now just putting my left hand up in the air and looking at them,

01:31:14.460 you know,

01:31:14.660 because the middle finger gives you a sort of a standard by which to judge where they land.

01:31:21.280 My ring finger is slightly longer,

01:31:23.620 but they're close.

01:31:24.440 It's not dramatic.

01:31:25.880 But it's slightly longer.

01:31:27.000 They're not equal.

01:31:28.380 No,

01:31:28.640 they're not.

01:31:28.840 You're a man.

01:31:29.840 You should be transitioning.

01:31:32.820 You and your husband are in a same sex union.

01:31:36.700 Oh my God.

01:31:37.320 That's great.

01:31:37.900 I qualify now as one of the protected classes.

01:31:40.140 One more.

01:31:40.800 That's great.

01:31:41.320 You're no longer a white woman with zero oppression Olympic points.

01:31:45.980 That's right.

01:31:46.600 My God,

01:31:47.000 I'm giving you a run for your money,

01:31:48.740 Lebanese Jewish man.

01:31:53.200 Well,

01:31:53.640 we've got all of my audience members now doing the same thing and questioning what happened to them in utero.

01:31:58.540 I,

01:31:59.060 my biggest problem in utero is 100%.

01:32:01.440 My mother slept on whatever side smushed my right face.

01:32:04.640 I'm telling you,

01:32:05.040 I'm so much more attractive on my left than I'm on my right.

01:32:08.500 And I,

01:32:09.100 I don't,

01:32:09.420 not to get too detailed,

01:32:10.220 but I'm telling you like all the way down,

01:32:12.300 let's just say I'm better on my left than my right.

01:32:14.380 And I know something happened.

01:32:15.620 She was like having a martini and smoking a cigarette and sleeping on the side that smushed my right side.

01:32:21.780 Okay.

01:32:22.440 Hey,

01:32:22.680 you want to hear something that's brilliant about evolutionary psychology?

01:32:26.200 And we can probably talk about this for another 10 hours.

01:32:28.620 Uh,

01:32:29.660 breast symmetry changes as a function of where you are in your menstrual cycle.

01:32:37.200 What?

01:32:38.500 Yes.

01:32:39.520 Yeah.

01:32:39.780 So it gets better or worse when you,

01:32:41.840 when is it ideal?

01:32:42.980 If I remember correctly,

01:32:44.320 when,

01:32:44.840 when you are in the maximally fertile phase of the menstrual cycle,

01:32:49.320 that's when all physiological markers are at their best.

01:32:52.700 So your skin use better and so on.

01:32:55.380 So I'll give you a background to the story.

01:32:58.620 So several years ago,

01:32:59.520 when I was working with that graduate student on the menstrual cycle stuff,

01:33:03.400 one of the studies that we wanted to do,

01:33:05.160 because we are based in Montreal and Montreal is sort of a hotbed of exotic dancer clubs.

01:33:11.420 Uh,

01:33:11.440 you know,

01:33:11.580 it's not quite as spiritual canonical as some places in the U S I did not know that.

01:33:15.560 Yeah.

01:33:15.760 Yeah.

01:33:15.880 Yeah.

01:33:16.100 Uh,

01:33:16.740 so,

01:33:17.260 so we wanted to run a study to see whether,

01:33:20.780 uh,

01:33:22.140 you know,

01:33:22.320 the behaviors that exotic dancers,

01:33:24.960 female exotic dancers would engage in as a function of where they are in their menstrual cycle.

01:33:29.600 So for example,

01:33:30.200 how much tips they receive as a function of their menstrual cycle.

01:33:33.020 So I was at a conference,

01:33:34.780 um,

01:33:35.740 in an evolution conference,

01:33:37.380 uh,

01:33:37.840 scientific conference.

01:33:38.760 And one of my good friends comes up to me and says,

01:33:42.000 Hey God,

01:33:42.420 I want to,

01:33:43.040 I want to tell you about a study I'm doing with some of my coauthors.

01:33:45.860 And he tells me that exact same study,

01:33:48.120 which basically shows you how,

01:33:49.900 you know,

01:33:50.340 in,

01:33:50.620 in science,

01:33:52.040 just like in anything else,

01:33:53.000 you better,

01:33:53.400 you better get to it quickly because someone else will beat you to the punch.

01:33:56.040 So it turns out that they ran the study rather than us.

01:33:59.260 And what I can,

01:34:00.100 uh,

01:34:00.600 you know,

01:34:00.860 if I can share their data with you,

01:34:02.420 it turns out that when female exotic dancers receive larger tips when they are in the maximally fertile phase of their menstrual cycles.

01:34:13.480 Now this could be due to two.

01:34:15.500 That was tips audience members.

01:34:17.640 What?

01:34:18.320 Yeah.

01:34:18.580 Tips.

01:34:19.120 T I P S.

01:34:20.000 Yes,

01:34:20.220 indeed.

01:34:21.040 Uh,

01:34:21.560 right.

01:34:22.340 Right.

01:34:22.760 And so,

01:34:23.400 and now there are two separate,

01:34:24.900 uh,

01:34:25.500 mechanisms that could explain that effect.

01:34:28.500 One,

01:34:29.700 it could be that the women are,

01:34:32.300 you know,

01:34:33.120 for example,

01:34:33.520 dancing in a more lascivious manner.

01:34:35.740 Yeah.

01:34:35.920 They're bringing their a game.

01:34:37.020 They're bringing their a game because they're feeling more sexy and so on.

01:34:40.720 Two,

01:34:41.620 it could be that the men are detecting subtle cues.

01:34:46.200 So to go back to our earlier point where you asked me,

01:34:48.120 so when is it that they are,

01:34:49.340 they're at their best.

01:34:50.160 So it could be that men are depict,

01:34:53.180 are,

01:34:53.340 are,

01:34:53.620 uh,

01:34:54.120 detecting subtle cues of fertility that your,

01:34:57.680 your,

01:34:58.080 you looks better.

01:34:59.120 Your breasts look more enticing.

01:35:01.620 And so either,

01:35:02.760 or I don't think in their study,

01:35:04.020 they were able to tease apart which of these two mechanisms were operative.

01:35:07.400 I suspect that's a bit of both,

01:35:08.660 but that shows you how there could be all kinds of cool stuff that you can

01:35:12.580 study at the intersection of evolutionary biology,

01:35:14.820 evolutionary psychology,

01:35:15.640 and consumer behavior.

01:35:17.120 Well,

01:35:17.520 I think it does go to show you too,

01:35:18.640 that like,

01:35:19.160 maybe if you have a big job interview,

01:35:20.620 you schedule it for the,

01:35:21.720 for your,

01:35:22.520 the day you ovulate,

01:35:23.680 or maybe if you're trying to catch a man,

01:35:26.060 you know,

01:35:26.620 who you're really interested in schedule it for a certain day.

01:35:29.100 Cause we women can,

01:35:29.920 can pretty well predict when that time is coming.

01:35:33.620 Anybody who's tried to get pregnant knows exactly how to check her ovulation schedule.

01:35:37.020 Who knows,

01:35:38.000 you know,

01:35:38.220 in this day and age.

01:35:38.840 And it also of course puts the lie to this story that we have nowadays,

01:35:43.400 that there is no thing as,

01:35:44.900 as biological sex,

01:35:46.980 even.

01:35:47.180 I mean,

01:35:47.480 that's really an argument that to our point earlier that,

01:35:49.980 you know,

01:35:50.120 that we're just all the same and everything else has been socialized and,

01:35:52.860 you know,

01:35:53.620 that there's no inherent difference between us,

01:35:55.520 notwithstanding the thousands of years of evolution we have,

01:35:57.940 we can look back and see,

01:35:59.120 and just with our own heart and eyes and ears and,

01:36:02.820 you know,

01:36:03.200 senses,

01:36:03.740 we know,

01:36:04.560 we know it isn't true,

01:36:05.460 but we too many of us go along,

01:36:07.720 right?

01:36:08.280 So as not to offend,

01:36:09.360 which leads me to my last point with you,

01:36:10.720 get one of the things I love.

01:36:13.400 I loved this about you.

01:36:14.880 This is so funny.

01:36:15.720 I love the way you put this.

01:36:17.020 This is why they call you the gadfather.

01:36:18.540 You touched on it earlier,

01:36:19.580 like how to help,

01:36:20.500 how to fight.

01:36:21.380 And you were talking about,

01:36:22.620 you wrote about academia and how it selects for cowards.

01:36:27.300 The present company,

01:36:28.100 obviously accepted.

01:36:30.020 And you were saying an academic who's too insecure to step into the public arena

01:36:34.320 and who hides from difficult conversations is not worthy of being labeled an intellectual.

01:36:39.120 Then you write moving forward.

01:36:40.620 This is the part I love.

01:36:41.860 It is imperative that we attract people into academia who not only possess the necessary

01:36:46.780 cognitive abilities to succeed,

01:36:48.620 but also the obligatory temperaments to be Navy seals of ideas.

01:36:56.880 Yes.

01:36:57.880 Yes.

01:36:58.260 It's not just academia.

01:37:00.280 It's everyone.

01:37:01.360 It's all of the people listening to this.

01:37:03.080 Anybody who's on the side of reason and sanity and wellness and rejecting all this nonsense,

01:37:09.000 we all must be Navy seals of ideas.

01:37:12.020 How?

01:37:12.720 How does that appear for my imaginary listener,

01:37:16.680 Madge,

01:37:17.120 who's in Iowa?

01:37:18.600 She's not going to be an activist.

01:37:20.320 She's not going to start a podcast,

01:37:21.460 but she's with us and she wants to help.

01:37:23.900 So how should she be compelled?

01:37:26.140 How could she be a Navy seal of ideas?

01:37:27.620 Yeah.

01:37:27.940 Yeah.

01:37:28.120 Well,

01:37:28.520 so first I should,

01:37:29.680 before I answer that question,

01:37:30.940 let me just say that of all the people who write to me and,

01:37:35.000 you know,

01:37:35.260 I get quite a sizable number of communiques from people from around the world.

01:37:39.320 The ones that bring me the greatest pleasure perhaps are the corrections officers,

01:37:44.960 the police officers,

01:37:46.740 the special forces folks,

01:37:49.080 precisely because I admire such people,

01:37:53.700 right?

01:37:53.980 I despise cowardice.

01:37:56.300 I despise tepidness.

01:37:58.420 History is not shaped by,

01:38:00.260 you know,

01:38:01.020 apathetic fence sitters.

01:38:02.420 And therefore when I get a,

01:38:04.120 a guy like the one who killed bin Laden,

01:38:06.580 who came on my show,

01:38:07.940 I think he's been on your show recently too,

01:38:09.880 right?

01:38:10.140 Yes.

01:38:10.400 It's great.

01:38:11.640 Yeah.

01:38:11.840 And these are the guys who write to me and say,

01:38:13.880 Oh my God,

01:38:14.400 I love you,

01:38:15.060 Professor Saad.

01:38:15.680 Guess what?

01:38:16.220 I really love their compliments.

01:38:18.460 How can we get,

01:38:19.620 what'd you call her?

01:38:20.540 Marge?

01:38:21.440 Marge.

01:38:22.880 Marge with a D.

01:38:24.280 Yeah.

01:38:24.740 How do we get her to,

01:38:26.460 we,

01:38:27.100 we tell her that,

01:38:28.240 listen,

01:38:28.760 we will lose this battle.

01:38:30.920 We will lose this great experiment called the West.

01:38:33.960 If every person who has the ability to weigh in doesn't.

01:38:39.020 And so I recognize that not everybody could have the courage of that gentleman who went

01:38:44.100 and killed bin Laden,

01:38:45.660 but at least if we're at war,

01:38:48.000 everyone should contribute in some way.

01:38:49.760 Some people will be nurses.

01:38:51.860 Other people will be making the food for the troops,

01:38:55.140 but we are all saying,

01:38:56.840 I'm going to stand up and be counted for in this battle.

01:39:00.020 So,

01:39:00.560 so again,

01:39:01.680 I don't,

01:39:02.480 me saying that I want people to be Navy SEALs also recognizes that not everybody has the capacity

01:39:08.340 to be in it.

01:39:08.960 A lot of people who want to be in the Marines go through hell week and then fail the physical

01:39:13.140 component,

01:39:13.820 right?

01:39:14.120 But they could still then find some other way to channel their contribution.

01:39:18.140 So I don't want people to feel as though they,

01:39:20.960 they can't participate unless they are a supreme,

01:39:24.140 you know,

01:39:24.360 intellectual Navy SEAL.

01:39:25.460 So just please don't diffuse the responsibility onto others,

01:39:29.700 activate your inner honey badger.

01:39:31.840 And again,

01:39:32.420 for those of you who don't know why I use the honey badger,

01:39:34.340 the reason why I use that imagery is because a honey badger is the size of a small dog.

01:39:38.220 And yet it is so fierce that it could withstand the attack of,

01:39:41.420 you know,

01:39:41.900 six adult lions.

01:39:43.020 They will run away feeling intimidated because of its ferocity.

01:39:46.260 So if you have a set of ideas that you think are well articulated,

01:39:50.400 that are,

01:39:50.840 that are well,

01:39:51.480 you know,

01:39:51.680 you're well informed that you could defend,

01:39:53.900 then be a honey badger.

01:39:55.380 And by doing so,

01:39:56.740 then you will be a Navy SEAL of ideas and Godspeed.

01:40:01.960 That's all I can say.

01:40:03.280 Yes.

01:40:03.740 This is why everybody needs to buy the parasitic mind.

01:40:07.120 Your chapter eight is call to action.

01:40:08.740 This is just a couple.

01:40:09.920 You've got to read it for yourself,

01:40:11.240 peeps,

01:40:11.500 but trust me,

01:40:12.440 it's worth your time.

01:40:13.260 Do not be a bystander as truth,

01:40:16.460 reason,

01:40:16.680 and logic call out for your help.

01:40:18.040 Do not fear the loss of friendship.

01:40:20.400 Anyone who is willing to end a friendship because of a reason,

01:40:23.000 difference of opinion is not worthy of your friendship in the battle of ideas.

01:40:26.820 Every voice counts.

01:40:28.440 Even if your circle of influence is limited to your family,

01:40:30.920 friends,

01:40:31.180 and neighborhoods and neighbors.

01:40:33.040 And then you say,

01:40:34.100 my best advice is if you're going to fight,

01:40:36.460 go all in,

01:40:37.640 make your engagement count.

01:40:39.380 When dealing with miscreants,

01:40:40.860 appeasement is seldom a winning strategy.

01:40:43.880 Be a honey badger,

01:40:45.020 never back down when attacked by ideological bullies.

01:40:49.100 And you say,

01:40:49.760 I implore you to get engaged.

01:40:51.180 The cure is before you.

01:40:53.780 It is the pursuit and the defense of truth.

01:40:57.560 It is the recommitment to the virtues of the Western scientific revolution

01:41:00.660 and the age of enlightenment.

01:41:02.720 March on soldiers of reason.

01:41:05.260 Together we can win the battle of ideas.

01:41:08.140 Oh,

01:41:08.820 preach,

01:41:09.240 preach,

01:41:10.260 get ahead.

01:41:11.160 Professor,

01:41:12.300 love you.

01:41:13.220 Love the way you think.

01:41:14.600 And I'm so honored to get to speak to you.

01:41:17.100 Likewise.

01:41:17.540 It was such a pleasure.

01:41:18.560 Thank you so much,

01:41:19.260 Megan.

01:41:19.520 And I look forward to staying in touch with you.

01:41:25.380 All right.

01:41:25.860 And don't miss Friday show.

01:41:27.400 This is actually going to be fun.

01:41:28.720 I've gotten to know Kevin McCarthy a little bit over the past few years.

01:41:31.560 You know,

01:41:31.740 the house minority leader,

01:41:33.080 he's a great guy.

01:41:34.380 And she's constantly in the news.

01:41:36.260 You know,

01:41:36.540 of course they've painted a caricature of him in the media that doesn't,

01:41:40.120 doesn't bear up to reality.

01:41:41.700 So I think you're going to get to know him firsthand and you're,

01:41:44.280 you're going to be entertained.

01:41:45.100 You're going to like,

01:41:45.500 and be smart,

01:41:46.200 strategic thinker along with Joni Ernst,

01:41:48.840 who is a Senator out of Iowa.

01:41:51.500 Remember Joni when she ran and she did the thing about castrating pigs and

01:41:55.720 people were like in New York,

01:41:56.880 they were like,

01:41:57.440 huh?

01:41:58.880 But across real America,

01:42:00.720 they were like,

01:42:01.180 cool.

01:42:03.020 She's cool.

01:42:03.820 And we're going to talk to them about the state of play in Washington and

01:42:06.640 what's going to happen now that we're already looking forward to these

01:42:09.480 midterm elections.

01:42:10.240 Are the Republicans likely to regain one or both houses?

01:42:14.480 And are we likely to see if the filibuster go away in this contentious

01:42:17.680 body that Senator Ernst is in?

01:42:19.560 I mean,

01:42:19.740 that would really change America as we know it.

01:42:21.360 So anyway,

01:42:21.780 a lot on the table looking forward to this discussion.

01:42:23.920 We'll get into America and its legislative state,

01:42:28.060 something that we don't talk about enough on this program,

01:42:30.060 but there's plenty to discuss.

01:42:31.680 So don't miss it and go ahead and subscribe while I have you.

01:42:34.020 See you next time.

01:42:36.140 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show.

01:42:38.660 No BS,

01:42:39.800 no agenda,

01:42:40.960 and no fear.

01:42:41.920 The Megan Kelly show is a devil may care media production in

01:42:45.980 collaboration with red seat ventures.

The Megyn Kelly Show - June 23, 2021

Gad Saad on Victimhood, Fighting Back Against the Tyranny of the Minority, and the Differences Between Men and Women ｜ Ep. 119

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Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript