The Megyn Kelly Show - Garland Grilled on Hunter Investigation, and Russell Brand's Defenders, with Jim Geraghty and Maddy Kearns

00:00:00.440 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:12.460 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.860 Attorney General Merrick Garland is on Capitol Hill right now getting grilled by the House GOP on the Hunter Biden investigation and more.

00:00:24.460 He is on his heels trying to dance and spin his way out of some tough questions.

00:00:29.140 It's been really interesting to watch. We're going to go over the highlights in detail.

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00:01:13.440 Joining me today, Jim Garrity, a senior political correspondent at National Review and co-host of the Three Martini Lunch podcast,

00:01:23.220 along with Madeline Kearns, who's a staff writer at National Review and senior fellow at the Independent Women's Forum.

00:01:28.360 You can find their work at National Review in full by becoming an NR Plus subscriber.

00:01:34.820 Today is National Review Day here at The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:39.160 Welcome to the show, Jim and Maddie. Great to have you.

00:01:40.900 Great to be here. Thanks for having us.

00:01:44.620 All right. So have you been watching this this morning?

00:01:47.880 Yeah.

00:01:49.440 In between all the other things we're doing. Yes.

00:01:52.380 You know, look, we were hanging on the edge of our seat because we knew Merrick Garland was always going to be honest,

00:01:57.940 straightforward, clear and honest accounting of all of his decision making that every senator up there could trust 100 percent.

00:02:04.620 You know, who wouldn't want to listen to Merrick Garland for a whole morning?

00:02:07.360 He's truly been spinning like with that guy at the circus with the plates, just trying to keep him going and going and going and going.

00:02:13.260 This appears to me like the most dishonest public official we have, which is really saying something like it's like George Santos and Merrick Garland.

00:02:22.340 And every time a Democrat takes to the mic, all we hear is thank you for being such an honorable man and for your truthful testimony and public service.

00:02:30.840 It's like they don't think anybody's paying attention.

00:02:34.000 And I realize the Democrats are perfectly happy to give this guy a pass.

00:02:36.700 But those of us who have been watching him are not.

00:02:39.860 All right. So I want to sort of get to the crux of what seems to be happening here.

00:02:45.060 They're trying to push him. And this is for the audience at home.

00:02:48.360 They're trying to push him on why he took this guy, David Weiss, who is the U.S. attorney for the District of Delaware,

00:02:56.880 and made him special counsel to go after Hunter Biden, you know, two minutes ago.

00:03:02.960 This guy, David Weiss, was investigating Hunter Biden now for years and could have brought charges many times

00:03:08.420 and let them slide and let these statute of limitations expire on the most egregious charges,

00:03:13.120 like the tax charges that would have brought up the Burisma connection.

00:03:16.340 So he's been really running to protect Hunter Biden.

00:03:19.900 If you look at the way he's conducted that investigation and if you look at the IRS whistleblower's testimony,

00:03:24.420 it's very clear David Weiss is on Hunter's team.

00:03:27.300 Then he tried to sneak through this settlement agreement that would have given Hunter immunity for everything,

00:03:32.560 everything, Burisma, foreign agent, all this stuff,

00:03:35.680 with just a slap on the wrist for the remaining lame tax charges and the gun charges.

00:03:43.100 So all along, people have been wanting to know, how is it that this whole thing got allowed?

00:03:49.260 Why didn't he seem empowered to bring charges like the IRS whistleblowers claim he admitted he wasn't?

00:03:56.560 They're claiming that he came to them when they said, where are the tax charges for the love of God?

00:04:01.000 And that he said, I can't bring them.

00:04:02.740 They're the most serious tax charges are in California and D.C.

00:04:07.420 And I was not granted authority to bring charges in those jurisdictions.

00:04:11.300 I can't do it.

00:04:12.880 Well, your own Andy McCarthy at National Review has been doing yeoman's work on this, as you guys know.

00:04:19.220 And he's pointed out as a former U.S. attorney himself that what happens all the time, that a U.S. attorney, let's say in Delaware,

00:04:26.900 is investigating a case and the target of his investigation turns out to have committed a bunch of crimes in California

00:04:32.700 where that U.S. attorney has no jurisdiction to go in and, you know, commence a grand jury, etc.

00:04:39.020 So what does he do?

00:04:40.600 He goes to the district attorney or the U.S. attorney in California and says, hey, will you partner with me?

00:04:46.260 I want to bring this case.

00:04:47.520 And sometimes that U.S. attorney will say, sure, Delaware man, let's do it.

00:04:51.960 And sometimes they will say, no, not interested, too busy.

00:04:55.600 It can be your thing.

00:04:56.500 And when that happens to said Delaware U.S. attorney, he has to go to the attorney general, who is the boss of them all, to say,

00:05:04.340 can you give me basically a permission slip to go out there and bring this case myself?

00:05:07.680 And they almost always say yes.

00:05:09.520 There'd have to be, you know, an extraordinary reason for the AG to say, no, you can't do it.

00:05:14.240 So that's what's called special attorney status, not to be confused with special counsel,

00:05:22.440 in which case you don't have to go to the AG at all.

00:05:25.320 As soon as you're special counsel, you're independent, you don't deal with the AG, you can do what the hell you want.

00:05:31.300 And all along, people have been saying David Weiss should have been a special counsel, not him.

00:05:35.540 I mean, before we knew his bias, people were OK with him.

00:05:38.200 But somebody with independence and outside the government, not currently answering to AG Merrick Garland as a U.S. attorney,

00:05:46.480 should be named special counsel and have independent authority, given the fact that Hunter is Joe Biden's son.

00:05:52.360 He didn't do it.

00:05:53.340 Didn't do it.

00:05:53.820 Didn't do it.

00:05:54.280 Right.

00:05:55.320 So now people are zeroing in on what Merrick Garland has said now that the shit has hit the fan and what David Weiss has said via letters, via testimony.

00:06:03.780 Weiss has yet to testify.

00:06:05.160 Garland has testified before Congress a couple of times.

00:06:07.140 And the line they've come up with and the line they've come up with is that Weiss never asked for special counsel authority, but always could, always could, but didn't up until recently when Merrick Garland gave it to him.

00:06:19.600 But earlier, Weiss says he was assured by the Justice Department, he was assured by the Justice Department that if he needed special attorney status, again, that's the temporary permission slip to go into somebody's jurisdiction without being special counsel, that it would be granted if appropriate.

00:06:41.580 It would be granted if necessary.

00:06:43.580 It would be granted if necessary.

00:06:44.580 That's what if necessary.

00:06:45.580 Now, the big question today, Jim Garrity is.

00:06:50.240 What the hell happened after that assurance was given to David Weiss?

00:06:54.600 Why did David Weiss go and say, can I get the pet, the special pink slip that would let me go into California?

00:07:00.860 Why did he do that?

00:07:01.620 Because we know he was denied by the U.S. attorney in California and the one in D.C.

00:07:06.460 We know that from the IRS whistleblowers and The New York Times has confirmed it, that he did try to see, hey, would you guys bring these charges?

00:07:12.420 And it was it was a no.

00:07:14.200 So at that point, a willing prosecutor should have gone to Merrick Garland.

00:07:19.080 Already, it's fraught.

00:07:20.040 Now, that's why he should have been a special counsel, because Garland is basically working for Joe Biden.

00:07:25.680 So it's fraught because you're basically saying, can you give me the special permission slip to go prosecute the president's son?

00:07:30.580 But in any event, he should have done that.

00:07:32.220 And he seems to be claiming he did something like that because he went to Merrick Garland and said he was told he'd get the special attorney status if it was necessary.

00:07:40.200 Well, what what happened next?

00:07:43.220 Did you then bring a case?

00:07:45.520 Oh, wait, you didn't.

00:07:46.520 You let the statute of limitations expire in California and you let it expire in D.C.

00:07:51.200 You you appear to have done nothing.

00:07:53.720 So what did if necessary mean?

00:07:57.600 Did Merrick Garland want more assurance?

00:08:01.140 Because what he's saying today is I didn't interfere.

00:08:05.340 I was so hands off.

00:08:07.240 I treated it like plutonium.

00:08:09.020 I didn't come anywhere near it.

00:08:10.660 Well, then what did if necessary mean?

00:08:13.480 How what did David Weiss have to prove to get to the it's necessary?

00:08:18.600 Go ahead and bring the case.

00:08:20.180 Is it on Merrick Garland who wouldn't say, yes, we're at the necessary point?

00:08:24.520 Or is it on David Weiss who got the if necessary, we'll give it to you and then just put his hands over his ears, closed his eyes and said, I'm just going to sit here until the statute of limitations expires.

00:08:36.560 Either way, my main takeaway from listening to Merrick Garland wiggle and worm on the Hill today, Jim, is he's a snake and a liar and is doing everything in his power to obfuscate real answers on how this all went down.

00:08:53.300 And why the most serious charges against the president's son are no longer possible because the statute of limitations has run.

00:09:01.800 I mean, look, I think I can try to decide whether it's worse if Merrick Garland and Weiss actually did agree on what if necessary meant and that they both had this idea that the threshold would be so high.

00:09:15.380 We have incontrovertible evidence that Hunter Biden committed the Texas Chainsaw Massacre and therefore we simply have to prosecute on these charges, you know, or whether, you know, Weiss had one idea of what if necessary meant and Merrick Garland meant.

00:09:28.700 No, no, no. I only want you to do it if it was two Chainsaw Massacres down in Texas.

00:09:33.040 That that's the threshold, my idea of how bad it's got to be before we prosecute Hunter Biden.

00:09:38.220 Look, I don't begrudge any prosecutor for having a certain, you know, reluctance or churning in their stomach and needing acid when the case involves the son of a president.

00:09:51.360 You know that anything you do is going to be interpreted by political.

00:09:54.760 It's going to be interpreted as either being targeting the president's son or it's going to be interpreted as sparing the president's son.

00:10:01.760 But this comes with the job. You don't really are given you're not really given the option to opt out of cases involving the president, you know, the president's family.

00:10:09.640 When Merrick Garland took that job. First of all, I mean, Democrats treated him as if he'd been resurrected from the dead after he had had his Supreme Court nomination derailed by the GOP Senate a couple of years earlier.

00:10:21.300 And he had, you know, a thousand times sworn that he was going to be the nonpartisan down the middle balls and strikes.

00:10:28.920 You wouldn't even think of him as a Democrat. You would just see him as the nation's chief law enforcement officer.

00:10:34.840 And he was never going to allow Biden to influence him. And Biden was never even tried to influence him and all that stuff.

00:10:40.960 Well, that's not what we've gotten. What we've, you know, both from IRS whistleblowers and also these very odd decisions that keep being made by Merrick Garland,

00:10:50.380 including spending, I mean, really months insisting that David Weiss had all the authority he needed and that there was no need to have a special counsel in this case.

00:10:59.100 And anybody who was claiming otherwise was, you know, cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

00:11:03.600 And then like that, we have turned him into a special counsel. Therefore, he totally now he really has all the authority he needs.

00:11:11.980 Trust us. There was nothing wrong with the previous arrangement, but we totally felt the need to change it anyway.

00:11:16.400 There's a contradiction there. They've never really even tried to explain what that was or something.

00:11:22.280 Weiss comes across as somebody who is torn between the mountain.

00:11:26.840 Look, you know, try to think of a kind of a scandal that Hunter Biden has not gotten himself into in the past couple of years.

00:11:34.280 You know, the drug use, the impregnating the stripper, the fight over child support.

00:11:38.680 Like that's none of that stuff's even criminal, but that's there.

00:11:41.720 Then there's the shady business practices. Then there's the huge gifts from foreign businessmen.

00:11:46.040 Then there's the question of whether they should have registered for the lobbyist.

00:11:48.700 Then there's the question of the gun and unlicensed.

00:11:50.620 Like like there's just a long stack of potential lawbreaking and scandals and unsavory behavior.

00:11:56.840 And you get the feeling that Weiss just wanted to pick and choose stuff that would be bad, but not too bad.

00:12:02.660 And that would result in a fine, result in a plea bargain, something where you could say, see, we went after him.

00:12:09.440 Get off my back. And that, you know, it would never really cause any significant headaches for that.

00:12:13.760 And Hunter Biden had one of the world's most generous plea deals on the table.

00:12:17.820 And somehow he managed to screw it up because his lawyers believed, oh, this also means we can't be prosecuted for anything else we've ever done in the past.

00:12:26.260 Or in the future. This is literally a get out of jail free card from Monopoly that they wanted.

00:12:32.220 Anyway, I've ranted long enough. I'm going to let Maddie take a few whacks of this pinata.

00:12:36.060 But it just seems like an unbelievably ridiculous situation.

00:12:39.020 And the situation Merrick Garland assured us that he was never going to find himself in.

00:12:43.620 And by the way, I just want to clarify to David Weiss in his letter to Congress in July said, I was granted, you know, full authority on the ultimate authority and told I'd be given special attorney status.

00:12:58.880 This I'm calling it a pink slip to go visit somebody else's jurisdiction.

00:13:02.500 And it's not as big as special counsel, but it's sufficient to go in and prosecute if necessary.

00:13:08.360 Right. That's what he said, if necessary.

00:13:09.720 And he's also said that he was told that before the meeting he had with the IRS whistleblowers and the FBI agents in which the IRS whistleblowers have said on the record that they were told by David Weiss.

00:13:26.340 He did not have full authority, that he was not the decider.

00:13:29.760 He was not the ultimate decider.

00:13:31.160 So something more would have to happen that he'd been turned down in those jurisdictions to bring a case and that he hadn't been granted special counsel status.

00:13:41.060 And therefore, he was not the decider.

00:13:44.140 OK, so he's claiming he had that.

00:13:46.500 You are the decider.

00:13:47.420 You can go in there if necessary prior to that meeting.

00:13:50.620 So what happened?

00:13:51.900 Did he go back to Merrick Garland and say, I'm telling you, it's now necessary.

00:13:55.820 It's necessary.

00:13:56.940 I got the middle finger from both jurisdictions.

00:13:59.440 The statute's going to expire.

00:14:01.260 Let me let me put me in, coach.

00:14:03.300 Let me go do my thing.

00:14:04.360 Or did David Weiss cover his eyes and ears sit tight in Delaware, surrounded by absolutely no Delaware and Joe Biden connections and wait?

00:14:14.420 Just watch his the clock.

00:14:16.720 Right.

00:14:17.000 Just tick tock until the most serious charges were gone.

00:14:21.220 And then the shitstorm came down when he tried to, you know, push through a sweetheart plea deal.

00:14:25.960 And only when he got caught did he bring these lame gun gun charges and say, OK, I'll be special counsel on on what's at whatever is remaining in the tax lane.

00:14:35.960 Maddie, I want to play a little sound before I get you to weigh in.

00:14:39.420 He was asked.

00:14:41.680 Did you talk to Weiss?

00:14:42.960 Tell us about your discussions with Weiss.

00:14:44.460 Hello.

00:14:44.800 That's the question.

00:14:45.620 Thank you.

00:14:46.240 Thank you for asking that.

00:14:47.420 What have the two of them discussed?

00:14:49.200 They work for us.

00:14:50.600 They work for us.

00:14:52.900 Listen to this answer in Sot 17.

00:14:56.120 OK, can you tell us about any briefings or discussions that you personally have had with Mr.

00:15:01.640 Weiss regarding any and all federal investigations of Hunter Biden?

00:15:05.340 I'm going to say again, I promised the Senate that I would not interfere with Mr.

00:15:09.860 Weiss.

00:15:10.140 So you have not.

00:15:10.960 I'm just under oath today.

00:15:12.320 Your testimony is you have not had any discussions with Mr.

00:15:15.400 Weiss about this matter.

00:15:16.240 Under oath, my testimony today is that I promised that the Senate I would not intrude in his investigation.

00:15:24.220 I do not intend to discuss the internal Justice Department deliberations, whether or not I had them.

00:15:32.480 So it's a middle finger, Maddie Kearns.

00:15:35.080 He won't tell us.

00:15:36.560 Yeah, I mean, it reminds me of how Biden's handled these accusations and that he said he's not had any discussions with his son, Hunter.

00:15:47.760 It's very difficult to believe.

00:15:49.980 But I think what Merrick Garland has going for him here at the risk of sounding credulous is that he is very mild mannered.

00:15:57.580 He can appeal to this reputation he has as being a moderate, being a straight shooter.

00:16:02.160 It's not actually all that dissimilar to Joe Biden during the 2020 campaign.

00:16:07.200 It was old, nice Uncle Joe.

00:16:09.440 He's a nice guy.

00:16:10.720 Never mind that he lies through his teeth.

00:16:13.060 I think that's what's going on here as well.

00:16:15.380 I mean, anyone who's had any dealings with a big grinding government bureaucracy will have run into the answer to a question.

00:16:23.360 Oh, that's not my department.

00:16:24.800 I don't deal with that.

00:16:25.800 I don't know about that.

00:16:27.040 And the question that obviously comes to mind straight away is don't you people talk to each other?

00:16:31.020 Obviously, in that case, the explanation is incompetence.

00:16:35.600 I don't think Merrick Garland is seriously trying to say that he is incompetent.

00:16:40.680 But I think what he's doing here is he's suggesting that there's an element of professional distance that he's had between himself and David Weiss.

00:16:49.360 It was the appropriate thing for him to do, he's saying, in this situation, to take a step back for all the reasons that we've brought up about the closeness and proximity of the Biden DOJ investigating the Biden family.

00:17:03.060 And so he's saying, you know, I left it to David Weiss.

00:17:05.400 I left it to this Trump appointee.

00:17:07.520 And I really didn't have much to do with it.

00:17:09.400 And as soon as you start to press down in that, he's, yeah, as you say, a middle finger.

00:17:14.180 None of your business.

00:17:16.360 You know, I don't have to comment on that.

00:17:18.280 It's contemptuous, frankly.

00:17:21.000 Mm hmm.

00:17:21.440 And here he is getting questioned by Representative Bishop on the fact that the statute of limitations is now passed.

00:17:27.860 Right.

00:17:28.020 Like, I mean, truly, the statute of limitations is is expired on the chart, the tax charges that would bring up Burisma.

00:17:35.920 And I mean, it does seem very clear why that was allowed to happen.

00:17:39.840 That's the best way of protecting the so-called big guy, which we know from the IRS whistleblowers.

00:17:44.480 The team investigating Hunter Biden was told, don't go there.

00:17:48.540 We're not doing anything that asks about Joe Biden, period.

00:17:52.800 So here he, Merrick Garland, got asked a bit about the statute of limitations expiring in SOT-19.

00:17:58.960 Are you aware the statutes of limitations have been allowed to expire while the matter was under investigation?

00:18:05.680 The investigators were fully familiar with all the relevant law.

00:18:10.320 I'm not asking for the excuses.

00:18:11.540 I'm asking whether you're aware of that fact, sir.

00:18:14.600 I'm going to say again.

00:18:16.240 I'm going to say again and again if necessary.

00:18:18.760 I did not interfere with, did not investigate, did not determine.

00:18:22.800 Those are statements in response to other questions.

00:18:24.920 Everybody in the country now knows who's paying attention to this, that the Justice Department permitted statutes of limitations to expire.

00:18:31.600 Every lawyer who's ever practiced understands the implications of allowing statutes of limitations to expire.

00:18:37.480 Do you not even know as you sit here whether that occurred or not?

00:18:40.940 Prosecutors make appropriate determinations on their own.

00:18:44.180 In this case, I left it to Mr. Weiss, whether to bring charges or not.

00:18:48.040 That would include whether to let statute of limitations expire or not.

00:18:52.800 It's it's the, you know, what was it?

00:18:57.840 Sergeant Schultz, Colonel Schultz.

00:18:59.580 I can't remember his rank.

00:19:00.720 I know nothing.

00:19:02.040 Nothing.

00:19:02.640 Remember F Troop, right?

00:19:04.360 It wasn't it?

00:19:04.980 It was an F Troop.

00:19:05.680 Jim Garrity, you're my.

00:19:06.700 Hogan's Heroes.

00:19:07.080 Maddie's like, what the hell are you talking about?

00:19:08.960 Hogan's Heroes.

00:19:09.760 Thank you.

00:19:10.240 Thank you.

00:19:12.220 Yeah.

00:19:12.840 You know, in that last comment, Maddie made something very important, saying that it was contemptuous.

00:19:17.720 Indeed, contempt of Congress does seem like an appropriate term to be throwing around here.

00:19:22.660 And also, I think there's like the point earlier about the reputation that Merrick Garland has, that he's not seen as this diehard partisan bomb thrower.

00:19:32.340 There are a lot of figures in Washington, particularly on the Democratic side of the aisle, who have a reputation as a moderate.

00:19:37.980 And what they mean is that they are moderate in their tone, maybe moderate in their personality, moderate in the way that they speak and make their arguments and all that kind of stuff.

00:19:47.020 They're pleasant people.

00:19:48.320 You could invite them over for dinner and you would not have any thrown objects or knocked over drinks or anything like that.

00:19:55.720 That doesn't necessarily mean that they are moderate in their policy or ideology or in their actions.

00:20:00.620 And a lot of Democrats, you know, benefit from that blurring of the distinction of what is moderate.

00:20:08.120 And I think, you know, Biden is a good example of this, but also I think Merrick Garland is one, is that, you know, he seems very calm in that, in his, you know, those clips that you've played.

00:20:16.300 But in one of them, he's saying like, look, I know I just took an oath to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

00:20:21.260 But I've just decided that my conversations with other people at DOJ, they just got to remain private and I'm not going to share them with you.

00:20:28.680 Like, in a way, it's sort of like an assertion of executive privilege, but there's never been an executive privilege applied to the attorney general.

00:20:34.420 Like, he doesn't have his own ability to say, yes, you know, sorry, legislative branch, you're not allowed to hear about that.

00:20:38.880 That's just too secret for you.

00:20:40.220 Right, they're the oversight committee.

00:20:41.900 Yeah, you know, unless it was like classified information or something like that.

00:20:44.520 And even that you can do at a closed hearing.

00:20:47.140 And then his next statement was kind of this total non sequitur when the question is like, look, you know, at minimum, like, did everybody know what the statute of limitation expiration date was?

00:20:57.380 Were people aware of the fact that they were on a ticking clock?

00:20:59.880 How did you miss something like this?

00:21:01.520 And his attitude is like, look, I was not going to contact them about anything, including when they were no longer going to be able to bring charges.

00:21:08.620 By the way, I think everybody knew darn well, you know, like the argument is that this was deliberate, that this was like, ah, you know, we we found all this evidence.

00:21:16.420 We could have made a case against Hunter Biden, but ah, forgot to check the calendar.

00:21:21.180 What are you going to do?

00:21:22.020 We shouldn't have taken that long weekend.

00:21:23.340 You know, they had him dead to rights.

00:21:25.720 The IRS whistleblowers made that very clear.

00:21:28.180 It was an extremely strong case.

00:21:31.560 Here's Jim Jordan speaking to the expiration of the statute in SOT 21.

00:21:36.740 What I'm wondering is why you guys let the statute of limitations lapse for those tax years that dealt with Burisma income.

00:21:44.980 There's one more fact that's important, and that is that this investigation was being conducted by Mr. Weiss, an appointee of President Trump.

00:21:54.200 You will, at the appropriate time, have the opportunity to ask Mr. Weiss that question, and he will no doubt address it in the public report that will be transmitted to the Congress.

00:22:04.760 I don't know the answer.

00:22:06.320 I don't know the answer.

00:22:07.080 So you're great saying that we're going to get a chance to hear from Mr. Weiss directly, Maddie, which is exactly what we need.

00:22:14.780 But you know exactly what's going to happen when David Weiss gets in front of Congress.

00:22:18.980 I'm I'm not at liberty to discuss that.

00:22:21.460 That's a private matter within the Justice Department.

00:22:24.720 That would reveal attorney work product.

00:22:27.520 He's not going to I don't there's zero chance David Weiss is going to illuminate anything willingly.

00:22:32.920 Yeah, I think these are questions that Garland just obviously hoped and fully expected before the plea deal fell apart in July that he was never going to have to answer.

00:22:44.720 That's the reason he doesn't have an answer to them is because he's sitting here thinking, oh, this is, you know, I don't want to be here.

00:22:52.600 I don't want to be dealing with this.

00:22:54.400 I thought I had had this under wraps.

00:22:57.180 And here I am today and it comes through.

00:23:00.440 And I think like like I was saying, with these grinding bureaucracies, you can get on the phone and the person says, oh, I'm sorry, like that's not my department.

00:23:07.860 Let me just dial you through to somebody else.

00:23:10.600 And then great.

00:23:11.060 They can go home and not worry about it.

00:23:13.120 He's not in that position.

00:23:14.620 This the buck stops with him.

00:23:16.360 He is the attorney general.

00:23:17.820 He has to answer for what was going on under his watch.

00:23:21.060 And these answers are just completely devoid of any substance.

00:23:24.800 And, you know, you mentioned David Weiss.

00:23:26.840 It will be very interesting to to see him in the same situation.

00:23:30.480 But ultimately, it's going to become rather tedious and repetitious because we're not really getting anywhere.

00:23:35.500 And nor did we expect to.

00:23:38.000 Here's here's just a little bit more.

00:23:39.420 Jim Jordan expanding on why he thinks they let the statute of limitations expire.

00:23:44.540 SOT 21.

00:23:45.980 Everyone knows why they did it.

00:23:48.400 May not say it, but everyone knows why they did it.

00:23:50.920 They did those tax years.

00:23:53.320 That's that that dealt with the that involved the president.

00:23:56.660 It's one thing to have a gun charge in Delaware.

00:23:58.460 That doesn't involve the president of the United States.

00:24:00.380 But Burisma.

00:24:01.500 Oh, my.

00:24:02.320 That goes right to the White House.

00:24:03.640 We can't have that.

00:24:05.380 And we can slow walk this thing along.

00:24:07.320 We can even extend the statute of limitations and then we can intentionally let it lapse.

00:24:10.840 And we know this investigation was slow.

00:24:12.400 Here's what everyone said.

00:24:13.620 Shapley said DOJ slow walk the investigation.

00:24:16.120 Ziegler slow walking in the approvals of everything.

00:24:18.720 This happened at the Delaware's attorney's office and DOJ tax level.

00:24:22.380 Mr. Sobosinski, the FBI agent, said, I would have liked to see things move faster.

00:24:26.940 Miss Holly said the same.

00:24:28.100 Every witness we've talked to said this thing was slow walk.

00:24:30.320 And we know why.

00:24:32.500 They've slow walked it long enough to let the statute of limitations run so they wouldn't have to get into Burisma.

00:24:37.200 I'm sorry, Jim, but this is why this is part of the reason why people look at the prosecutions of Donald Trump and say, I don't give a damn.

00:24:49.900 I don't care.

00:24:50.840 I'm not listening to you.

00:24:52.500 I don't trust this DOJ.

00:24:54.240 They're clearly in the tank.

00:24:55.780 It's a partisan outfit.

00:24:57.240 It is election interference.

00:24:59.760 And they really don't give a damn what documents Donald Trump had back at his house in Mar-a-Lago or what he did with them in dealing with these dishonest brokers.

00:25:08.700 One of the, you know, like infuriating ironies of all this is that you can actually find members of the Obama administration who were deeply uncomfortable with Hunter Biden being on the Burisma board.

00:25:20.440 You can find State Department officials who said Hunter Biden serving on that board made our job more complicated.

00:25:26.200 That, you know, because remember, keep in mind, it's not just that Biden is like the Obama administration's point man on Ukraine while this is going on.

00:25:32.460 It's that he's going around Ukraine and Romania and places like that and giving speeches about the importance of fighting corruption and fighting bribery and fighting all this while the Biden family is getting paid millions of dollars by Burisma and by Romanian businessmen and things like this.

00:25:50.220 Even if you wanted to argue that Hunter Biden was, as Devin Archer put it, he was peddling the illusion of influence or access.

00:25:58.360 No, when you get the vice president of the United States on the phone, that's access.

00:26:02.640 That's not the illusion of access. It's not a magic trick.

00:26:05.260 There's no rabbit out of a hat or smoke and mirrors. That's access.

00:26:09.500 And if you don't believe me, call the White House switchboard and see how quickly you can get Joe Biden on the phone.

00:26:14.300 My guess is it's going to be a while.

00:26:16.300 But all Hunter Biden's business partners could get Joe Biden on the phone like that as long as Hunter was there making the call.

00:26:22.640 And so here's the thing. Let's assume that Hunter, let's be nice.

00:26:25.800 So let's be assumed that Joe Biden never changed a single policy at any level for any one of Hunter Biden's clients.

00:26:31.400 I think it's a very generous assumption. Let's assume it does.

00:26:33.680 It's still really bad for the country if the son of the vice president is going around to every shady business on Earth and saying, hey, you got problems with the U.S. government?

00:26:42.400 I could fix you with that. I could put you on the phone with my dad just as soon as you send the fee.

00:26:47.660 And like that's that, you know, particularly with a vice president is running around Europe saying we have to fight corruption and we have to fight bribery.

00:26:53.920 Like you could not have a greater, more glaring contradiction for this.

00:26:58.860 And one of the things I've kind of believed was always at work in the entire discussion of Hunter Biden.

00:27:04.340 Before the 2020 election, I did this whole long timeline of basically everything that was publicly known about Hunter Biden's work going back pretty much to his graduation from law school.

00:27:13.400 He worked for MBNA, big bank in Delaware. They clearly wanted to have a good friend at Joe Biden.

00:27:17.840 He was a lobbyist. He says he never lobbied his father. Fine.

00:27:21.020 I put out that like, hey, Chris Dodd, this is your buddy Joe's son, Hunter.

00:27:25.620 Hey, I want to get an earmark I want you to put in. Like, I don't think that was nearly as it.

00:27:29.820 But, you know, he's always been cashing in on the family name.

00:27:32.740 He's always had a job that in one form or another was around deal making that had people who had interest in front of what his dad could influence in federal policy.

00:27:41.060 And, you know, going back years, it's, you know, I think some study looked at members of Congress and found that like 80 of them and about evenly split had a family member or spouse on their office staff, campaign staff, super PAC staff or something.

00:27:57.200 Everybody's got an idiot nephew. Everybody's got an idiot son who needs some job.

00:28:02.160 Most people are like, OK, it's not good. It's not great. But that's relatively harmless.

00:28:06.700 That's what kind of happened with Hunter Biden year by year, decade by decade, in which what he was doing got more and more entangled with what his dad was doing.

00:28:14.340 And the only thing he had to offer Burisma or, you know, Kazakhstan real estate developers or Chinese financial, you know, he didn't have any skills or knowledge or anything like this.

00:28:25.040 The only thing he had was his access to his father. That was his benefit. That was his value, that and the family name.

00:28:31.360 And what had happened is it got worse and it got worse and it got worse and there was never any limiting principle.

00:28:35.500 There was never any red line where it's like, no, you can't do this anymore, son.

00:28:38.440 And so you have a situation in which Vice President Biden and then later, you know, in between years and then is on the phone with Hunter Biden's clients, allegedly just talking about the weather.

00:28:49.540 Right. Sure, sure. And now you tell me, because I feel like that all all of what we've been talking about is led directly to what's happening in the polls where Trump four times indicted and talking about it.

00:29:04.240 You know, this time last week I was interviewing Trump and he's going into depth on the documents case.

00:29:09.660 And, you know, he's saying unorthodox things for the Republican Party, to me, to NBC.

00:29:14.960 He is up four points now over Joe Biden in the general election.

00:29:19.100 He's up four in a general election. He's pivoting away from these GOP rivals to the general.

00:29:25.020 And it's working because in the Harvard Harris X poll that just came out, Trump in a head to head matchup with Biden now.

00:29:31.880 And we've seen Trump up maybe one, maybe tied some Biden up one.

00:29:37.300 Trump's up four over Joe Biden.

00:29:40.020 Haley's up four over Joe Biden.

00:29:42.160 Tim Scott's up two over Joe Biden.

00:29:44.720 And while it's not in front of me, I believe this poll showed Ron DeSantis losing to Joe Biden by four.

00:29:52.420 Yeah. Ron DeSantis losing to Joe Biden by four.

00:29:55.320 So, Maddie, the viewers are not getting this story about Hunter and Joe and so on shoved down their throat the way they would if this involved Republicans.

00:30:03.980 But it's I think it's reaching critical mass to where the mainstream has had no choice, especially with the impeachment, but to cover it.

00:30:13.260 And even before the impeachment, people are starting to get it with the indictments, with the with the fallen apart plea deal.

00:30:19.320 Like it's seeping into the narrative now and people understand he's too old and he appears to be corrupt.

00:30:26.280 All the polls show that's how the American public feels.

00:30:29.220 Those wide majorities of Americans feel that on both of those fronts, too old and corrupt.

00:30:35.560 Yeah. And I think with this particular case, what you're seeing is the blatant, flagrant hypocrisy as well.

00:30:42.860 You know, I mean, the Republicans really are trying.

00:30:46.800 I think all the other Republican candidates, but Trump really just are like, please, no more impeachments, like no more indictments.

00:30:53.580 This is this is just not helping us, because what it does is it creates a narrative where Trump is the is the grand victim of this partisan conspiracy, the establishment, the deep state.

00:31:06.180 They're out to get him. And as you say, this just this just helps him.

00:31:09.920 It gives him free publicity.

00:31:11.140 It it gets him back talking to people, doing interviews, explaining why they're all out to get him.

00:31:19.280 People can also see the sort of disproportionate sentencing.

00:31:23.300 You know, there was the proud boy leader who got 22 years.

00:31:27.400 And now, you know, we're seeing others who are getting prosecuted.

00:31:32.140 And I think that people people have cottoned on to that and they they react badly and it serves Trump very well.

00:31:40.580 It's really disheartening.

00:31:42.420 And I am excited to see some tough questions going by these GOPers to Merrick Garland.

00:31:48.360 So often it's uncoordinated and it's totally ineffective.

00:31:52.380 And now, you know, one of the questions they're asking is, well, why did you ultimately make him special counsel after all was said and done?

00:32:00.280 You know, if special attorney was good enough and he was had the ability to prosecute anywhere at any time, why was special counsel necessary?

00:32:10.320 And he just keeps saying he asked for it.

00:32:13.020 Yeah, he finally asked for it.

00:32:14.360 I mean, I think we have that side.

00:32:15.260 Do we have that side, Deb?

00:32:16.380 On July 10th, 2023, David Weiss wrote the Senator Graham and said, I have not requested special counsel designation.

00:32:23.900 August 11th, you announced that he's now the special counsel.

00:32:26.820 What happened in that 31 days?

00:32:28.040 As I said publicly, several days before my announcement, I think three days, Mr. Weiss had asked to become special counsel.

00:32:38.780 He explained that there were I had reached the stage of his investigation where he thought that appropriate.

00:32:43.900 What stage is that?

00:32:45.040 I had promised to give him the resources he needed.

00:32:47.740 What stage is that?

00:32:48.760 He'd reached the stage after five years.

00:32:50.320 What stage are we in?

00:32:51.060 We in the beginning stage, the middle stage, the end stage, the keep hiding the ball stage.

00:32:55.100 What stage are we in?

00:32:55.740 I think this one, I would go back to the videotape where I said I'm not permitted to discuss ongoing investigation.

00:33:02.100 Isn't that convenient?

00:33:03.460 Something changed in 31 to 32 days from July 10th to August 11th.

00:33:08.480 I think it's two brave whistleblowers came forward and a judge called BS on the plea deal.

00:33:12.460 You guys tried to get past him.

00:33:13.580 That's what I think happened.

00:33:16.000 Thank God for Jim Jordan.

00:33:17.340 Honestly, like he's very effective.

00:33:18.640 He's but he knows how to question.

00:33:20.300 He zeroes right in on it.

00:33:21.460 And I agree with every word he just said, because what else what else changed?

00:33:25.160 Nothing else changed.

00:33:26.280 Nothing.

00:33:27.000 I mean, and to now get special counsel status status once the charges in California and D.C.

00:33:33.000 are expired.

00:33:34.040 Oh, that's really helpful.

00:33:35.800 What?

00:33:36.040 Why the hell does he need it?

00:33:37.480 And by the way, why did he need it?

00:33:39.620 Like it wasn't for independence.

00:33:40.840 Right.

00:33:41.240 Because Merrick Garland's been saying all along, we're not talking about it.

00:33:43.580 We're not talking about it.

00:33:44.300 He's fully empowered.

00:33:45.040 So why the hell did he need it?

00:33:46.840 Why?

00:33:47.800 None of this is making sense unless you listen to what Jim Jordan said.

00:33:52.480 What Jim Jordan said makes perfect sense.

00:33:54.720 It explains everything.

00:33:56.440 What Merrick Garland and David Weiss are trying to do is dance on the head of a pin and they're

00:34:01.360 falling off.

00:34:02.280 It's very obvious to anybody paying a modicum of attention.

00:34:05.460 Stand by.

00:34:05.960 Jim and Maddie stay with us.

00:34:07.420 We'll be right back after this.

00:34:08.840 So John Fetterman remains in the news, a senator now from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and

00:34:19.180 for all the wrong reasons, as it kind of usually is with him.

00:34:22.420 The Senate, you guys know, has now lowered its standards to allow people to show up dressed

00:34:28.620 like the three of us are.

00:34:29.680 But you know what?

00:34:30.440 We're doing a podcast.

00:34:31.420 We're not showing up as U.S. senators on the floor of the U.S. Senate to do the people's

00:34:35.040 business.

00:34:35.380 Um, John Fetterman all along now, I mean, he's, he shows up like he's at a college fat

00:34:41.520 party in his weird little shorts and sweatshirt, his hoodie.

00:34:45.100 Uh, it's disrespectful.

00:34:46.820 And instead of saying, put on a damn suit, would it be so hard to wear a tie and a blazer,

00:34:53.740 sir?

00:34:54.360 They've now lowered the standards, Chuck Schumer, to meet where Fetterman is.

00:34:59.180 So now they can all show up like that.

00:35:01.500 Uh, Marjorie Taylor Greene tweeted out, she's in the other chamber.

00:35:04.360 However, the Senate no longer enforcing a dress code for senators to appease Fetterman

00:35:08.440 is disgraceful.

00:35:09.940 Dress code is one of society's standards that set etiquette and respect for our institutions.

00:35:14.800 Stop lowering the bar.

00:35:16.740 Now, what's interesting about that is, of course, we're not surprised to hear Marjorie

00:35:21.860 Taylor Greene took a shot at Fetterman, is, uh, he decided to respond.

00:35:26.260 He went on with Chris Hayes on MSNBC in what was just a train wreck of an interview.

00:35:30.900 We're going to go through a few of the soundbites, but here's the first one in which he responds

00:35:34.820 to her.

00:35:35.780 Her platform, you know, really, she runs on more and more ding-a-ling, you know, picks,

00:35:40.560 you know, on, uh, in the, uh, the meetings, uh, over in, in, uh, Congress.

00:35:45.820 So, again, uh, I, I'm not really sure why she cares how I dress, uh, but, you know, she

00:35:51.600 really takes it a different way.

00:35:54.600 Okay.

00:35:55.120 I managed to at least comprehend what he was trying to say there, Maddie Kearns.

00:35:59.180 I mean, I got followed a bit, but the bottom line is he's thrilled.

00:36:03.880 He's thrilled that now we're going to have a bunch of schleps walking to vote for us on

00:36:07.240 the Senate floor looked looking just like him.

00:36:10.460 And is this part of some loss of civility, formality, pomp and circumstance that mattered?

00:36:22.660 Yeah, I think definitely.

00:36:23.700 I think on one level, there's a certain vanity to it.

00:36:26.800 I mean, he wants to be remembered for the guy who changed the dress code, who made it

00:36:32.340 okay to wear your, your sweatshirt and your slacks.

00:36:35.600 Um, and, and, and also, as you say, there's a kind of symbolism to it.

00:36:39.360 This is one of many examples that we can point to, uh, recent, recently, maybe we'll get onto

00:36:44.980 some of them of just a general disintegration of standards, both in, in how you, you present

00:36:50.860 yourself and how you conduct yourself, uh, when you're, when you're in private, um, you

00:36:56.300 know, we obviously saw with Lauren Bobar and her, um, incident, but this is just, I think

00:37:01.240 a kind of depressing move.

00:37:02.760 I mean, the fact that he's trying to present himself as, uh, edgy and eccentric, um, is

00:37:08.920 one thing, but the fact that Chuck Schumer responded by quietly changing the dress code is just

00:37:14.720 really, you know, very depressing.

00:37:17.500 Um, I mean, to, to share kind of a personal anecdote, uh, as to why I think it's really

00:37:21.800 important that people with serious jobs who make serious consequences, um, on other people's

00:37:28.260 lives should be dressed in a way that reflects that seriousness.

00:37:30.920 I remember once going for a visa and, uh, the lawyer had, had got everything sorted out

00:37:36.240 and I was in the embassy and, um, some guy who worked for the embassy who had just, he

00:37:42.980 was mistaken because the lawyer had sorted everything out.

00:37:45.360 Anyway, he denied my visa while wearing a Christmas sweatshirt.

00:37:48.660 And I was just so mad about this because I was like, you're, you're making a decision

00:37:54.780 that like really upends my life and you're wearing a Christmas sweatshirt.

00:37:59.320 Like this is just what is going on.

00:38:01.120 This is really just not, I feel like you're not taking me seriously.

00:38:04.080 I feel insulted.

00:38:05.760 Yes, I can relate to this.

00:38:07.220 I, I think I've told the story once before, but we were, when we lived in Manhattan, uh,

00:38:11.620 right across the street from us was this church.

00:38:13.440 Now it was Methodist.

00:38:14.700 I'm Catholic, Doug's Presbyterian, but we're raising our kids Catholic.

00:38:17.760 And, uh, it was, our kids were really little.

00:38:20.800 It was Christmas.

00:38:22.280 Like there was no, we're not going to wake up our kids and go out in any event.

00:38:25.140 Long story short, um, we had a babysitter.

00:38:28.540 She watched the kids and we just popped right over there for a quick service.

00:38:32.260 And then I found out that at least this particular Methodist church, which is in the most liberal

00:38:36.040 area of New York was more like a variety show than it was a service.

00:38:40.400 And, um, I mean, it was bizarre.

00:38:41.860 I've never seen anything like it.

00:38:42.820 Um, and the, this woman's coming down the aisle with like the spiky,

00:38:47.760 like colored hair and, uh, she's wearing a Santa hat and, you know, it's like the most

00:38:54.600 holy holiday in, in, well, one of them, uh, in Catholicism.

00:38:58.720 And, um, I'm like, Oh, that's not really an appropriate outfit for Christmas Eve mass,

00:39:02.620 but okay.

00:39:03.600 And, uh, she was our minister.

00:39:05.820 She went behind the lectern.

00:39:11.520 I'm like, what's happening.

00:39:13.120 I missed the formality of the Catholic church, but this is kind of, it's a pattern.

00:39:18.860 Jim Garrity where, you know, again, I feel kind of hypocritical because I wear Lululemon

00:39:26.000 every day, but I'm doing a podcast.

00:39:28.460 If I were doing U S Senate work, I would be in a proper suit.

00:39:35.120 You know what, Megan, actually, I, I thought I was feeling kind of hypocritical too.

00:39:38.860 So I actually, I'm going to change it to a suit, uh, for the remainder of this segment.

00:39:42.700 I just, I don't feel right.

00:39:45.020 Usually I wear, you know, look, I work from home, uh, which means I'm wearing business casual

00:39:49.480 most days, uh, black tie and tuxes later on.

00:39:52.900 I apologize to everyone who's got the video version.

00:39:55.500 Don't worry.

00:39:56.800 If you want to play the, if you want to play the Mr. Rogers theme, it's much more, it's

00:40:02.580 a beautiful day in the neighborhood, a beautiful day.

00:40:06.320 I went more R rated.

00:40:07.980 You went Mr. Rogers.

00:40:09.040 I'm like, I'm giving you the striptease.

00:40:10.700 He's taking off clothing people.

00:40:12.240 Because I know that me taking my shirt off is exactly what's going to bring in the viewers

00:40:15.440 to the Mick and Kelly show.

00:40:16.360 Um, but anyway, like I, I, I'm being joking about this and, and Fetterman said, ah, you

00:40:21.840 know, people shouldn't judge me by what I wear.

00:40:23.880 Okay.

00:40:24.780 Uh, let's base judge him based on his record there in the Senate.

00:40:27.740 He's missed more than 33% of the votes so far in this session.

00:40:31.240 Now, a lot of that was because of his, uh, treatment for depression at Walter Reed.

00:40:35.300 We're all glad that he, that treatment appears to be working.

00:40:37.780 His mood is better.

00:40:38.940 Uh, he's not fighting very serious depression and his description of that in a cover profile

00:40:44.040 in time magazine.

00:40:45.540 It sounds devastating.

00:40:46.560 So I'm really glad to see Fetterman is feeling better.

00:40:49.520 I also noticed though, he did this interview with, uh, uh, the New York times in late July,

00:40:56.060 where they asked him, you know, how's life in the Senate?

00:40:58.000 And he really sounded miserable.

00:40:59.680 He sounded like he, they felt like the place was, uh, FYI listening audience.

00:41:03.940 He's now putting on his tie.

00:41:04.880 He's now removed his shirt.

00:41:06.160 He's put on a nice collared shirt and he's now putting on a red tie.

00:41:09.980 Keep going.

00:41:10.420 Won't you?

00:41:12.860 Um, no.

00:41:13.860 So he sounded like he feels like the chamber spends a lot of time doing dumb S word.

00:41:18.280 He also likes to use bad words.

00:41:19.440 He likes to use four letter words.

00:41:21.060 I'm not going to judge you for doing that, Megan.

00:41:23.180 I think, as you said, the standards for a podcast and standards for the U S Senate are

00:41:27.140 a little bit different, but I do think he thinks that adds to that authenticity there that,

00:41:31.340 you know, uh, you know, this is who I am.

00:41:33.160 Um, I mean, at least you can understand him at least when he's swearing.

00:41:36.040 I understand the words coming out of his mouth.

00:41:38.740 Um, and he also, this is something again, I feel very sympathetic to.

00:41:42.580 He talks about when you join the U S Senate, it's a guarantee you're going to spend 50%

00:41:46.680 less time with the people you love the most, uh, his family.

00:41:50.100 And I, I heard that and I was like, wow, you know, like, so you had this guy, he's had

00:41:53.280 this life threatening stroke that, that really left him in rough shape.

00:41:56.800 There was this kind of ridiculous letter from his doctor that was put out in October of

00:42:00.340 last year saying that he was fit for duty and had no major, uh, uh, you know, physical

00:42:04.980 challenges.

00:42:05.580 And then we all saw in the debate that he was still in really rough shape, having a

00:42:08.460 very hard time, uh, communicating.

00:42:10.960 And so he goes through that, but he gets to the Senate.

00:42:13.380 He has depression that is so serious that he says he was not suicidal.

00:42:17.020 But he doesn't really, yeah, I'm talking about the most serious topic imaginable and

00:42:22.400 being like, you know, doing this ridiculous psych gag that I started five minutes ago and

00:42:25.940 seemed like a good idea at the time.

00:42:27.620 And now quite doesn't seem like such a good idea at the time.

00:42:30.000 But anyway, your, your head, your headphone cable is actually buttoned into your shirt.

00:42:33.700 Guys, it's a part of me, Maddie.

00:42:35.600 I am now man and machine, complete cyborg.

00:42:38.220 This is the worst script tease ever.

00:42:40.720 No, because I'm putting more on.

00:42:42.300 It's kind of, that's, that's an indication of like how the money is going.

00:42:45.820 They're paying to put more clothes on.

00:42:47.440 The heavy coat goes on next.

00:42:49.080 Um, but semi-seriously, like he seems like a guy who's had like really serious problems.

00:42:53.620 He's away from his family and it sounds like he hates the job of being Senator.

00:42:57.320 And he literally is just made very clear.

00:42:58.620 He does not believe the job is worth putting on a suit for.

00:43:02.380 So I'm kind of left asking, why is he there?

00:43:05.680 Why, like, why was it so important for him to be a Senator?

00:43:09.100 The state of Pennsylvania has like 12 million people.

00:43:12.260 Uh, quite a few of them are over age 30, which is per, and residents of the state, which are

00:43:16.060 the only real requirements to be a U S Senator.

00:43:18.640 Could we find another?

00:43:20.060 It would, would it be better for everybody?

00:43:21.480 Even some of the Democrat, I don't expect a Democratic Senator to be somebody I agree with

00:43:26.440 very much, but nonetheless, he, he just seems miserable and he doesn't want to be there.

00:43:30.760 And it's like, I mean, somebody who could actually make the points that the Democrats

00:43:35.800 in Pennsylvania want made in a way that is comprehensible.

00:43:40.120 I, I bring you this.

00:43:41.900 It's been making the rounds.

00:43:43.340 Uh, it's sought 10.

00:43:45.160 He's trying to address the auto workers strike.

00:43:47.920 I think my message to the CEOs, the CEOs is, you know, it's $74 million, you know, collectively

00:43:57.240 earning that, you know, how many yachts can they need to, you know, to, to, to water, uh,

00:44:04.440 ski behind it.

00:44:05.980 You know, I mean, it's just crazy.

00:44:08.580 What, what I, I say again, I, all my references are to seventies TV, Maddie, but in the words

00:44:14.860 of Archie Bunker, what, I don't understand what he's saying.

00:44:19.980 No, meaning I don't think anyone understands what he's saying.

00:44:22.500 I'm not sure even he does.

00:44:24.080 I think this is the issue when somebody who's had a stroke who, you know, you, you, you worry

00:44:29.940 understandably that they're not going to be able to do the job then does the job anyway.

00:44:34.800 And watching that clip, my first response is just, you know, as a human being, it's hard

00:44:39.440 to watch.

00:44:40.020 It's hard to watch somebody try to express himself publicly and fail so desperately.

00:44:44.860 Um, well, obviously Biden, Biden already does that on a sort of daily basis, but at least

00:44:49.880 he kind of can finish a sentence, but this is really, really hard to watch.

00:44:53.280 And you just wonder, as you were saying earlier, why is he putting himself through this?

00:44:57.500 Why are the people around him allowing him to put himself through this?

00:45:02.020 Yeah.

00:45:02.320 And here's a little bit more from his interview with Chris Hayes.

00:45:04.600 That last soundbite was from Michigan.

00:45:06.200 Here he is back on Chris Hayes talking about the GOP and spending SOT 8.

00:45:10.960 I was, I was very proud of my colleagues, you know, because they're really about governance.

00:45:16.980 That's what it is.

00:45:17.860 And on the other, the, the house, the, the, whatever they call themselves team America or

00:45:22.700 whatever they call themselves, I just like, Hey, I just like bring your vote, you know,

00:45:26.820 otherwise, you know, they need to go hump a different leg.

00:45:29.220 I don't, I'm trying, I'm, I'm genuinely trying, like, it's kind of funny because it's Chris

00:45:40.420 Hayes, but actually he's like one of a very small number, a hundred to be exact, of really

00:45:46.660 important lawmakers that the ones in the house come and go, the ones in the Senate were stuck

00:45:50.540 with for at least six years.

00:45:52.260 And that's what we've got.

00:45:53.540 I'll just give you one more in the time we have from Chris Hayes, SOT 9.

00:45:56.800 Well, of course, he's only going there and he's cynical and he's, he thinks he can appeal

00:46:03.280 to, to the voters in Michigan, but he also doesn't have a lot of competition either.

00:46:08.280 You know, DeSantis, you know, you know, you know, he doesn't, you know, he, you know, I

00:46:14.440 dress the way he campaigns, you know, so he's able to just, you know, skip, you know, debates

00:46:21.480 because the others, they just don't have competition.

00:46:23.800 But, you know, I really don't believe there's no chance that Trump to win in, in Michigan.

00:46:29.260 He sure isn't going to win in Pennsylvania, but it's just a, it's a cheesy, cynical play.

00:46:35.340 Oh my goodness.

00:46:36.380 Jim, honestly, it makes me feel like, you know, when you're talking to like an elderly person

00:46:39.400 and they're kind of rambly and you don't know if they're going to land it and you're just

00:46:42.880 like, God, you're just relieved when it's over.

00:46:45.460 Yeah.

00:46:46.020 Let's point out that like, you know, the expression of concerns about whether John Fetterman can

00:46:50.560 still handle the job of the Senator refutes the argument that Republicans are ageist in

00:46:54.760 their criticisms of Biden and Feinstein because Fetterman is young and we still have very similar

00:46:59.020 issues.

00:46:59.880 Look, we told us in October he had no significant issues and here we are, it's September and

00:47:04.260 he's still having great difficulty communicating.

00:47:06.460 Your heart goes out to the guy, but it really seems fair to ask, is this really the guy who

00:47:10.080 should be representing Pennsylvania in the Senate right now?

00:47:12.000 Hmm.

00:47:13.500 I mean, I got to feel for the Democrats on some level because look at, I mean, half

00:47:16.280 their representatives, it's like Dianne Feinstein and John Fetterman and Joe Biden at the top.

00:47:20.500 I realized they put them there and they don't seem too concerned about it all, but like they

00:47:25.240 can't make the points.

00:47:26.140 They can't even make the arguments.

00:47:27.340 And yet they control virtually every important institution in America from government to culture.

00:47:33.460 Stand by Jim and Maddie.

00:47:34.820 Stay with us.

00:47:35.780 Don't forget.

00:47:36.280 You can find the Megan Kelly show live on Sirius XM triumph channel one 11 every weekday at

00:47:41.680 noon East and the full video show and clips by subscribing to our YouTube channel, youtube.com

00:47:46.600 slash Megan Kelly.

00:47:47.340 If you go there now, you can find my interview with Doug Brunt, author of the mysterious case

00:47:53.700 of Rudolph diesel, which is rocketing up the sales charts.

00:47:58.260 Thanks to all of you.

00:47:59.820 Thank you so much for supporting Doug and the book.

00:48:02.800 You can find that full interview via podcast, wherever you get your podcast for free to the

00:48:06.780 Wall Street Journal.

00:48:07.460 Just did a great review yesterday, calling it terrific, well-written, well-researched.

00:48:12.980 All the reviews that have come in have been absolutely stellar.

00:48:16.360 I know you're going to love it.

00:48:17.440 It's a mystery about a man whose name is a household name, but people don't know why.

00:48:24.420 And most don't even know it's an actual man.

00:48:26.820 And what the hell happened to him in the 20th century?

00:48:35.180 All right, guys.

00:48:36.160 So while we're on the subject of politics and struggling to get sentences to go in the

00:48:41.700 right order and to come out as you want them to, we would be remiss if we skipped right

00:48:46.940 over the president of the United States who spoke at the UN on Tuesday and seemed yet

00:48:53.420 again to freeze up in the middle of his speech sought to simply put the 21st century, 21st

00:49:04.380 century results are badly needed or needed to move us along.

00:49:12.140 That starts with the United Nations.

00:49:16.900 It's just it's getting hard to watch.

00:49:20.220 And yet what they're asking us to do is watch it not only for two more years at the end

00:49:25.300 as his term ends, but another four.

00:49:27.860 I mean, it just seems an obvious impossibility, Jim.

00:49:33.020 Yeah, I think, look, it's not just the fact that Biden turns 81 in November.

00:49:38.020 It's that he's, you know, in worse shape now than he was a year ago, which is worse shape

00:49:42.400 than it was the year before, which was significantly worse shape than when he was, you know, his final

00:49:46.640 year of the vice presidency.

00:49:47.560 And so we can extrapolate from that.

00:49:50.080 Chances are he's probably not going to be in a better shape a year from now and run, you

00:49:54.300 know, late October, November of 2024 rolls around.

00:49:58.340 He's probably going to be in really rough shape.

00:50:00.080 And so this, you know, the idea that was fascinating is there's a CBS News poll that came out just

00:50:06.820 this weekend.

00:50:08.340 You add it up, 66% of Americans are not sure he's going to finish his next term.

00:50:13.040 Something like 40% think he won't.

00:50:14.300 They think he will either, I imagine, pass away in office or need to step down because

00:50:20.000 of health and other issues.

00:50:23.000 And, you know, the rest, another good chunk are like, oh, we don't know what's going to

00:50:26.440 happen.

00:50:26.960 And this doesn't feel crazy, dark speculation.

00:50:30.760 This is just the actuarial tables and seeing what's in front of us.

00:50:34.220 Yesterday, I kind of went through this thought exercise.

00:50:36.060 Imagine some, you know, generic governor Democratic figure who, you know, Biden chooses not to

00:50:42.120 run, Harris chooses not to run, and they just run any old Democratic governor.

00:50:47.060 Well, any old Democratic governor would not be in their 80s.

00:50:51.040 Any old Democratic governor could probably give a speech without being utterly reliant on

00:50:54.900 a teleprompter, as we saw in that clip.

00:50:57.380 Any old Democratic governor would probably not just randomly say, you're a lion, dog-faced,

00:51:02.840 pony, pony-faced, shoulder, or some, you know, or some weird comment like that.

00:51:07.200 Any old generic Democrat would probably not make up stories about getting arrested to

00:51:11.640 visit Nelson Mandela or used to drive a tractor trailer or any one of these other stories that

00:51:17.060 Biden makes up that there's no historical record of that looks bad.

00:51:21.080 And just kind of to bring us full circle on what we talked about earlier today, any other

00:51:24.600 Democratic official does not, is not running on gun control while having a son arguing that

00:51:29.920 U.S. gun laws are illegitimate, unconstitutional, and in court for, you know, three charges related

00:51:35.760 to guns, isn't running around the country boasting that they've strengthened the IRS while

00:51:40.520 their son argues that the IRS is partisan, biased, and illegal, and violates all the laws

00:51:47.260 and all that kind of stuff.

00:51:49.400 You know, anybody else you nominate probably knows how many grandchildren they have, right?

00:51:53.540 I mean, like, really, Biden has the advantages of incumbency, but he really brings some unique

00:51:57.820 weaknesses to the table in a 2024 campaign.

00:52:00.980 You know, that poll I mentioned, Maddie, earlier showing Trump up four over Biden asked

00:52:07.300 about age.

00:52:08.300 Do you think Joe Biden is showing he is too old to be president, or do you think he is

00:52:12.600 showing he is fit to be president?

00:52:14.780 Ninety three percent of Republicans say too old.

00:52:18.220 Forty two percent of Democrats say too old.

00:52:20.760 Seventy five percent of independents.

00:52:23.600 Those numbers do not spell a second term.

00:52:26.480 They just they don't.

00:52:28.200 And they are factored in with the corruption as to why, you know, he's now starting to

00:52:32.780 lose on the generic battle ballot to not just Trump, but Haley and Tim Scott.

00:52:37.960 I forgot Tim Scott was running.

00:52:39.560 I don't like Ron DeSantis.

00:52:41.460 No, because he's carved out an area that's more conservative, probably.

00:52:46.120 Right.

00:52:46.300 These others are more moderate on some of these issues beloved by the Democrats.

00:52:50.120 But in any event, it's factored in.

00:52:52.660 But I wanted to get to this Maureen Dowd column.

00:52:54.980 You know, Maureen Dowd wrote she writes for The New York Times and she's an opinion columnist.

00:52:59.000 And it was after the Maureen Dowd column saying my sister, who's been like a fan, now thinks

00:53:06.200 he's absolutely disgusting because he won't acknowledge his seventh grandchild that he

00:53:10.360 did it.

00:53:10.980 So she's got some power.

00:53:12.200 He's clearly reading Dowd and affected by her.

00:53:14.600 So here's what she writes.

00:53:15.600 I got to put on my readers.

00:53:16.620 My eyes have been bothering me.

00:53:17.680 So I'm going to read this with my readers, which I kind of like.

00:53:20.080 That makes me feel smart.

00:53:21.900 OK, this is her conclusion about what's wrong here.

00:53:25.320 Staff need to let Biden out of the virtual basement.

00:53:28.820 My God, really?

00:53:30.260 She talks about he gave a speech on Bidenomics at a community college in Washington suburb

00:53:34.000 on Thursday.

00:53:35.600 He remarked that he wished he could he could do something, but I'll get I'll get in real

00:53:39.640 trouble if I do that.

00:53:41.500 Dude, you're the leader of the free world, she writes.

00:53:44.160 Since he became president, Biden is sharply curved.

00:53:46.060 How much he talks to the press, rarely giving interviews.

00:53:49.160 Then she she says, when I watch him cut himself short or get cut short by the staff, I get

00:53:54.320 an image of a yellow lab gamboling smack into an electric fence.

00:53:59.540 Gamboling, she writes.

00:54:00.740 When the president stops himself and says, am I giving too long an answer or maybe I'll

00:54:04.240 stop there or I'm going to get in real trouble.

00:54:06.620 He seems nervous that his handlers might yank his choke collar if he rattles on.

00:54:11.340 She goes on and says, the politician who has always relished talking to people, helping

00:54:17.500 or being around people seems sort of lonely, seems sort of lonely, even without the mask.

00:54:24.440 It's as though he's still hidden away.

00:54:27.840 He seems more timid, more cloistered.

00:54:30.880 And when he's more isolated, he seems sadder.

00:54:34.140 Uh, she writes that his overprotective staff has gotten into his head.

00:54:40.180 I know he gets frozen on Hunter questions, but he can't hide from them forever either.

00:54:44.140 The president's feelings were no doubt hurt the other day by the Washington Post column

00:54:48.380 by David Ignatius, in which he said he shouldn't run and neither should Kamala Harris.

00:54:52.320 I don't disagree, but I doubt it will make a difference.

00:54:55.520 So, by the way, that's her throwing her support behind.

00:54:57.840 He shouldn't run.

00:54:58.500 Um, his staff reinforces the impression that a fragile chief executive by overmanaging him

00:55:04.700 of a, of a fragile chief executive of overmanaging him and white knuckling all his appearances.

00:55:10.620 It's not the staff's fault.

00:55:12.360 And then there's this.

00:55:14.060 I've covered Biden for 35 years.

00:55:16.400 He has always been a babble merchant prone to exaggeration and telling stories too good

00:55:20.100 to be true, saying inexplicably wacky things.

00:55:23.200 So when he acts like this now, it shouldn't be attributed just to aging.

00:55:26.180 Certainly he has slowed down, but his staff has exacerbated the problem by trying too hard

00:55:31.440 to keep him in check.

00:55:32.840 Americans know who Uncle Joe is, quirks and all, slower and all.

00:55:38.720 Let them decide.

00:55:40.160 Biden needs to start looking like he's in command.

00:55:42.800 His staff is going to have to roll with him and take some risks and stop jerking the reins.

00:55:47.900 Let Joe out of the virtual basement.

00:55:50.860 What do you make of that assessment of this problem and the proposed solution?

00:55:57.800 Well, I think that if anyone has an idea of the full extent of Biden's limitations, it will be his staff.

00:56:07.400 This is, these are the people he's dealing with on a daily basis.

00:56:09.620 These are the people who have to brief him, prepare him for his speeches, his visits.

00:56:14.540 And I think the warning sign isn't he just has really, he just has a bunch of control freaks in the White House.

00:56:22.360 I think the concern is, and we've seen it, and I do think there's a difference between the way Biden's always been kind of gaffe prone

00:56:28.440 and that way of speaking that betrays some serious cognitive impairment or even physical impairment.

00:56:37.380 You know, we've seen him fall a number of times and, you know, we, all of us have experience of elderly relatives

00:56:43.240 and we know what decline looks like and this is what it looks like.

00:56:46.380 I think it's, it's a bit rich really to, to blame it on the staff.

00:56:49.820 I mean, maybe we should give her her wish and the staff should just like all the reins.

00:56:53.560 And maybe she would then be writing a very different column.

00:56:57.080 I mean, I sort of feel sorry for Biden's speechwriters because every time he delivers a speech,

00:57:02.680 the focus from commentators becomes on the delivery and not on the substance.

00:57:07.440 And there was actually probably quite a lot to remark on in his UN address.

00:57:11.820 I mean, not, it was, I wasn't particularly impressed, but, you know, there's,

00:57:15.180 there's serious considerations to be had about his foreign policy, what he's doing or not doing about China

00:57:20.860 and how he's responding to the Ukraine war, what, what his next steps are.

00:57:27.080 And we don't get to discuss any of that because the conversation continually comes back to his health.

00:57:32.540 And I, I don't think that's his staff's fault.

00:57:36.260 In the meantime, he does have a challenger.

00:57:39.420 I mean, technically he has two challengers, Jim Garrity.

00:57:42.240 He's got Marianne Williamson.

00:57:44.000 It's all about the love.

00:57:45.580 Go back and listen to my interview of her to find out if the love extends when we're on the subject of Donald Trump.

00:57:50.860 And then there's our evil forces.

00:57:54.160 They're gathering.

00:57:55.460 I have Donald Trump is from the black lodge.

00:57:58.080 He has come through from the red, you know, sorry.

00:58:00.720 What happened to the love Marianne?

00:58:02.640 Then there's RFKJ who is still running and generating a fair amount of buzz for somebody who has been dubbed a conspiracy theorist

00:58:10.460 and a nut and the man to be ignored by virtually everybody in the mainstream.

00:58:14.780 Um, he has asked for secret service protection, which, you know, normally I'd be like, why does he need it?

00:58:22.980 Nobody else has it.

00:58:23.920 Nobody on the GOP side has it.

00:58:25.480 Like, why do we have to pay for him?

00:58:27.080 But RFKJ is short for Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

00:58:31.160 And there's sadly a long history in his family of assassinations at the presidential or aspiring presidential level.

00:58:40.880 And you could kind of understand the guy being worried.

00:58:43.460 And he says he has received threats.

00:58:46.380 And there was a guy just the other day.

00:58:49.040 We have a video of the man, not the actual attempt, like the attack.

00:58:53.020 I don't know if he actually like tried to do the attack, but Friday in Los Angeles, here's the guy.

00:58:59.260 Now, I will say this RFKJ has got Gavin DeBecker's firm protecting him and you could do no worse.

00:59:04.380 I mean, no better.

00:59:05.000 You could do no better.

00:59:05.840 I love Gavin DeBecker.

00:59:07.460 But what do you make of his pitch that he deserves secret service protection, which this White House has denied?

00:59:15.000 Yeah, well, first of all, regarding Friday's incident, the man in question who was arrested showed up, had two guns, a fake ID as a U.S. marshal, claimed to be part of Kennedy's security detail and told the staff he needed to see Kennedy immediately.

00:59:31.440 I don't think it's wild or crazy to extrapolate that this person intended to harm.

00:59:36.960 And then he was still security detained.

00:59:38.720 The actual security detained him.

00:59:40.420 Police arrived, arrested him.

00:59:41.500 Look, by the way, in case your listeners are wondering, the standard issuance of secret service protection for candidates is usually right around when they accept the nomination of the major party candidates.

00:59:53.420 The Department of Homeland Security determines who's a major party candidate, but they can adjust that after meeting with congressional leaders.

01:00:00.520 And it's happened in the past.

01:00:01.860 Barack Obama got it very early in the campaign in 2007.

01:00:05.700 You know, major African-American candidate.

01:00:07.200 But unfortunately, there are a lot of racist yahoos in this country who might be tempted to take a shot at him.

01:00:11.160 Very similar story for Herman Cain in the 2012 cycle.

01:00:14.280 Ben Carson, too.

01:00:15.720 Yeah, they can make exceptions.

01:00:18.160 And this seems like an entirely reasonable exception.

01:00:20.860 A, because as you alluded to, this country has a really bad habit of trying to assassinate people named Kennedy.

01:00:25.300 And then the second problem is, even if you thought, oh, this is exaggerated or everybody gets hate mailed, I think the incident on Friday makes it very clear.

01:00:35.740 We should just I just want to ask the country, how many armed men do we want to come near someone named Robert F. Kennedy at a campaign event in Los Angeles?

01:00:45.080 Because we're up to two.

01:00:46.320 And I think that's plenty.

01:00:48.180 I think it's entirely reasonable to say, you know, look, the Robert F.

01:00:52.800 Look, is there an expense involved?

01:00:54.880 Yes.

01:00:55.820 But if Robert F.

01:00:57.020 Kennedy Jr., God forbid, something ever happens to him.

01:00:59.980 Can you imagine the backlash of knowing that the Biden administration and leaders in Congress chose not to provide Secret Service protection?

01:01:06.880 Can you imagine how many conspiracy theories that would set off?

01:01:08.840 Can you imagine, like, in the end, one person in the Democratic Party has authority over whether another person in the Democratic Party primary gets Secret Service protection after an incident like this.

01:01:19.960 It looks really bad.

01:01:21.520 And just kind of alluding to what Maddie said earlier and just a few moments ago, you know, Joe Biden, like, keeps, like, there's no upside to this.

01:01:29.340 If he could say, yeah, give RFK Jr. protection, I think he'd get some praise for it.

01:01:34.140 I think everybody would say, yes, this is a good idea.

01:01:36.000 But Biden keeps finding himself in these bad situations that are entirely of his own making.

01:01:42.780 And regarding his whole aging and energy level in the Maureen Dowd column, look, Biden doesn't do morning events before 10 a.m.

01:01:49.080 People have noticed this.

01:01:50.280 People have written about this.

01:01:51.580 If you want to dispel that, you would start doing events before 10 a.m.

01:01:55.120 He hasn't.

01:01:55.860 The most reasonable conclusion from that is that he can't.

01:01:59.320 And it's very similar with late night events.

01:02:00.740 And it's very similar with events on weekends, that he needs lots of downtime to recharge and he cannot maintain anything resembling the normal presidential schedule or the normal schedule of a presidential candidate.

01:02:10.520 I know.

01:02:11.160 Who is she kidding?

01:02:11.940 Like, you know, just let him be Uncle Joe.

01:02:14.440 Just let Biden be Biden.

01:02:16.200 No, that's that's what got him in all the trouble.

01:02:19.780 Like the staff only started to try to manage him once he started to wander off.

01:02:24.760 And it was clear he needed the Easter Bunny to show him where to go.

01:02:27.780 That was four or five days ago, man.

01:02:30.620 When Stephanopoulos is pointing out about the, you know, guys falling from the plane in Afghanistan.

01:02:35.040 That was four or five days ago.

01:02:36.960 You know, this guy who's been telling us how empathetic he is, how, you know, how much he understands the pain of others.

01:02:42.020 He comes across as a real, to use Charlie Cook's, you know, favorite word, a-hole, you know, and he just, you know, like, okay, so I'm actually reading Franklin Foer's, you know, The Last Politician, with the ideas that Biden is the last of the old-fashioned dealmakers.

01:02:58.520 And he really knows how to backslap and get the deal done and get along with people.

01:03:02.720 And he keeps giving anecdote after anecdote where the opposite is true, where Biden is pissing people off or he's rubbing people the wrong way or offending them or it's just one after another.

01:03:14.740 It's fascinating.

01:03:15.380 There's this entire mythology around him that does not match the reality of the man.

01:03:20.020 Well, you should put that down and pick up The Mysterious Case of Rudolf Diesel by Doug Brunt because that one's climbing up the charts like a rocket ship right now.

01:03:28.000 And it's a great read.

01:03:29.120 Sorry, shameless plug.

01:03:31.280 Maddie Kearns, Ted Cruz is suggesting, well, first of all, we had Rick Grinnell on the show, and he 100% believes that at the Democratic National Convention next summer, Biden's going to pass the baton to Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan, governor of Michigan.

01:03:50.000 Ted Cruz made news this week by coming out and saying, same plan, different baton receiver, thinks it'll be Michelle Obama.

01:03:57.140 And raise the point that that would remove the objection that we heard from, like, Sonny Hostin on the view of you better not sub out the black woman, right?

01:04:09.260 Like, oh, no, a black woman is getting elevated to the top of the ticket.

01:04:13.180 Who cares who her VP is in this scenario?

01:04:16.240 It would be embraced by every Democrat.

01:04:18.800 It would be uncriticizable by every Democrat.

01:04:22.180 We know she hates politics.

01:04:25.180 Is there any chance of this in your view?

01:04:28.540 Well, I'm surprised that he didn't suggest Meghan Markle, who's clearly just would be delighted to accept this.

01:04:37.120 She can finally put that revolutionary war matter behind us.

01:04:40.800 We can unite the British royal family and the American presidency.

01:04:44.500 That would just go beautifully, I'm sure, for everyone.

01:04:46.480 Please, please let that happen.

01:04:49.900 Yeah, Michelle Obama, obviously she has this celebrity factor.

01:04:53.720 And, you know, if Trump's the nominee, which unfortunately looks like he's going to be, then there would be, you know, they would be evenly matched in terms of that.

01:05:04.040 She also obviously ticks that box.

01:05:06.080 I just don't know how much, you know, you mentioned she hates politics.

01:05:08.500 I just also don't know, is she really qualified as being in close proximity to somebody?

01:05:14.480 You know, it's just, yeah, it's it doesn't seem like a very sensible.

01:05:19.200 It doesn't seem like a very sensible option.

01:05:21.080 But politics is so crazy now.

01:05:23.240 You know, it was kind of crazy.

01:05:24.360 We had Trump in the first place.

01:05:26.200 Never mind potentially again.

01:05:28.200 So nothing's off the table.

01:05:31.240 Oh, my God.

01:05:31.960 I mean, Jim.

01:05:33.920 Is this just a Democratic, you know, dream that Ted Cruz is having fun fanning the flames of?

01:05:40.260 Is there any scenario in which that actually happens?

01:05:43.360 The short answer.

01:05:44.240 So the first answer is, yes, this is indeed a Democratic dream that Ted Cruz is fanning the flames of.

01:05:48.580 And I think he's enjoying every minute of it.

01:05:51.100 Look, Michelle Obama has always been a very popular figure in Democratic circles.

01:05:55.960 And I actually think that if she were president, look, being there day after day, night after night, watching a presidency, I think gives you a very clear view of the hard realities of the job.

01:06:08.660 I think that she may have a very good thing is that I'm a little bit more of a fan of Michelle Obama than the average conservative.

01:06:14.320 Because if you ever read Jody Cantor's book, this portrait of their marriage during the first term of the presidency, if you've ever felt that Barack Obama was overhyped, that there was a ludicrous amount of excitement for a very mundane guy, that there was, you know, all sizzle, no steak.

01:06:32.540 Sometimes Michelle Obama feels the same way, as I suspect many wives feel about their husbands.

01:06:37.180 She sees the actual man and she's not as impressed as everybody else is.

01:06:41.400 So I actually think Michelle Obama, if she were ever convinced to do that, would instantly, you know, unify almost all the party and all that stuff.

01:06:49.200 But I don't think she wants anything to do with it.

01:06:50.240 She's got a terrific life.

01:06:51.600 She has seen the presidency.

01:06:53.480 Jeb Bush at one point had said, I've seen what the presidency did to my dad.

01:06:57.400 I've seen what the presidency did to my brother.

01:06:58.980 I don't need to be president.

01:07:01.400 And I think that's a real truth about the hard realities of the job.

01:07:05.300 I think every single person who runs for president should be asked, do you want to stay up all night writing letters of condolence to families of servicemen who died because of your orders?

01:07:15.100 Because that's the job.

01:07:17.020 It's not just happy rallies.

01:07:18.660 It's not just being popular.

01:07:19.960 It's not just, you know, traveling around in Air Force One to crowds that are chanting your name.

01:07:24.760 Presidency sucks sometimes.

01:07:25.900 It is a really hard job.

01:07:27.640 And you're going to make decisions.

01:07:28.680 It's only good.

01:07:29.320 Like, there's no good answer.

01:07:30.460 There's no right answer.

01:07:31.660 It's only a question of what is the least bad answer.

01:07:33.860 And this is a very unpopular perspective in American politics, the idea that this is a real serious job full of actual burdens and it's not, you know, being a reality show host and being entertaining or something like that.

01:07:46.460 So I don't think they'll do it.

01:07:47.660 I do think the possibility between now and the Democratic National Convention of the Democrats saying, holy smokes, Biden's gotten really bad.

01:07:55.920 And I don't think we're going to make it to the general election day.

01:07:59.980 You know, God forbid he has another fall.

01:08:01.900 He sounds even more incoherent than usual.

01:08:06.320 You could see Democrats realizing this point where, like, you know, having said that, Kamala Harris would have a reasonable reason to say, wait a minute, if I'm okay to be a heartbeat away from the job now, why would I not be okay to be a heartbeat away from the job or in the job starting in January of next year?

01:08:22.140 Look, honest to goodness, the way the Democrats came together behind Biden in March 2020, ironically, as COVID was starting to bear down on the country, really short-circuited an ongoing debate within the party.

01:08:38.040 And they never really finished that debate and they never really resolved that debate.

01:08:41.860 And Biden cannot be this Obama-esque unifier for all these disparate factions within the party.

01:08:47.800 That's why he keeps, you know, getting torn between the Greens and the unions and all these other factions, the blue dogs and what's left of them and the progressives, the AOC types.

01:08:56.020 Biden just wants everybody to be happy.

01:08:58.120 Well, you really can't do that with the job.

01:08:59.540 At some point, you have to pick one side or the other and pick a direction and let the chips fall where they may.

01:09:04.620 So anyway, I don't think it's likely to happen, but, you know, you never know when Biden's health might force the decision on the Democrats.

01:09:10.640 Hmm. While we're on the subject of presidential tickets and the possibility of a woman at some place on it, second position or first position, let's spend a minute on Kristi Noem because she is the governor of South Dakota, very, very popular and telegenic, has sort of a natural down-home appeal, was anti the COVID lockdowns in the way that Ron DeSantis was.

01:09:38.680 And we talked about her earlier this week because the Daily Mail did an in-depth piece on its reporting, claiming that she's having an affair and has been for a long time with Corey Lewandowski.

01:09:51.340 Just threw up a little in my mouth.

01:09:53.940 And it said that she that neither of them denied the story when the Daily Mail reached out to them.

01:10:03.980 And I talked on the show about how, you know, she's been rumored to be potential for Trump's VP.

01:10:09.520 And Trump told NBC News on Sunday he he's open minded to the idea of a woman joining him on the ticket.

01:10:16.540 And he, I think, gets along with Noem.

01:10:18.300 So, you know, she's potentially being considered, though this I think this would be a real problem for her.

01:10:24.540 I think in Republican politics, if it's proven that she's a woman, it's a sexist double standard.

01:10:29.220 I'm not going to deny it.

01:10:30.520 I realize Trump's history, but I think Republicans would have a hard time with a woman who was a sitting governor who was actively cheating on her husband with young kids in the house.

01:10:39.120 I really do.

01:10:40.300 And he's allegedly cheating, too.

01:10:42.180 Corey Lewandowski is married to a 9-11 widow.

01:10:43.900 So we reported what the Daily Mail reported after we reported that they reached out and offered us a denial.

01:10:53.680 So first they said it's not true that we didn't deny it to the Daily Mail, that we gave them a long statement denying it.

01:11:02.240 But we did deny it that we hold on.

01:11:06.500 I want to get the actual what they actually said, that they denied that the spokesperson for Noem, Fury, says he denied the story on the governor's behalf and that he called it false twice.

01:11:17.280 He called it false twice.

01:11:20.600 Then he slammed the reporter for the Daily Mail and reiterated his full statement, which said it's so predictable that you would attack Governor Noem less than a week after she endorsed Donald Trump.

01:11:33.500 It's also not surprising that you haven't been able to get any other entities to publish this false, misguided, and inflammatory story, even though you've been shopping it for months.

01:11:42.320 Your reporting is based on a false narrative from a disgraced DeSantis supporter who's been outed as an anti-Semite.

01:11:47.940 The lot in there.

01:11:49.000 The lot in there.

01:11:50.360 Now, it is not true that any other entities refused to publish it.

01:11:54.660 The New York Post took a deep dive into it as well with their own sources, with new details, citing multiple Republican sources who claim they've seen the two of them, canoodling in public, very amorous with one another, rubbing each other in a provocative way, and so on.

01:12:12.280 So we wrote back.

01:12:13.720 I mean, look, this isn't my story, but I report the news.

01:12:17.640 We wrote back.

01:12:18.800 OK.

01:12:20.060 Questions.

01:12:20.500 Has the governor had, at any time, an extramarital affair with Corey Lewandowski?

01:12:25.880 Does she deny without qualification the allegation that she and Mr. Lewandowski have had a sexual relationship?

01:12:31.820 We are happy to update our reporting with your response.

01:12:34.860 The response was, Governor Noem categorically denies the false allegation.

01:12:42.360 It was false when American Greatness reported it.

01:12:44.940 It was false when she spoke with Megan about it.

01:12:47.540 It is false today.

01:12:48.520 Now, I'm just going to tell you, as a lawyer and as a woman, that's not exactly a no.

01:12:54.340 If that were me, I would say, has the governor, at any time, any extramarital affair with Corey?

01:12:59.380 No.

01:13:00.540 It's very simple.

01:13:01.880 No is very simple.

01:13:02.560 It's only two letters.

01:13:03.240 It's easy.

01:13:03.660 No.

01:13:04.300 Does she deny without qualification the allegation that she and Mr. Lewandowski have had a sexual relationship?

01:13:08.640 The answer is no.

01:13:10.000 Yes, that she does.

01:13:11.080 Yes, I deny it.

01:13:11.980 I deny it.

01:13:13.000 And that's not what she said.

01:13:14.260 Just denies the false allegation.

01:13:16.140 Denies what false?

01:13:17.020 What's false, right?

01:13:19.120 Like, because if you just deny a story, it could be anything in the story.

01:13:22.600 It could be the overall tenor of the story.

01:13:24.500 It could be there were 20 allegations, which there are in the Daily Mail piece.

01:13:28.600 And overall, it catches the wrong tenor of what's going on.

01:13:31.680 Like, I don't know what's going on here, but I don't like the feedback I'm getting here and the way it's being very carefully worded.

01:13:37.100 And I wonder what you think, Maddie, as to my first proposition, which is if more comes out on this and it proves to be true, because now there are some reports, I don't know whether they are true, that her husband has moved out of the governor's mansion and has been out for two years.

01:13:51.000 Do not know whether that's true or not, whether she could realistically still be Trump's running mate.

01:13:57.080 So I think there's two issues.

01:14:00.060 The first I think you touched on, which is there is a bit of a double standard because she's female.

01:14:06.180 I agree with that.

01:14:07.180 But I think it's actually probably more to do with the fact that she has presented herself as being somebody who upholds and promotes and strives for family values and traditional marriage and all that that means and all that that comes with.

01:14:20.460 And so there's a hypocrisy scandal, as well as the sex scandal, as well as the potentially there being an adultery scandal.

01:14:29.800 And obviously with Trump, he's a bit more upfront about these things, or at least he's, you know, nobody's very surprised when there's yet another sex scandal with Trump.

01:14:40.240 Whereas I think this is really has the potential to do a lot of damage because it ruins her authenticity.

01:14:46.280 Um, it, it makes her seem like a liar.

01:14:50.360 Uh, she did, you know, in her denial to American greatness in 2021, she said, you know, I'm a proud God fearing woman.

01:14:57.480 So like, it's, it's really quite hard to come back for that if it ends up being true.

01:15:02.700 Um, so yeah, I, I think it, I think it could damage her.

01:15:06.160 I don't think it's going to like deter Trump in any way.

01:15:08.720 I don't think he could care less, frankly.

01:15:10.160 Um, but like, no, I actually, can I just say it might, I know why you said that my first instinct was to agree, but I did hear a story about, um, I can't get into it.

01:15:22.840 It's off the record, but I, but I heard a story about him having an objection to a female politician who he knew, who he knew people would say was sleeping around on her husband.

01:15:32.640 And he didn't, he recognized that would be bad politics.

01:15:36.040 Hmm.

01:15:37.340 Well, back to your first point then about the, the double standard.

01:15:41.080 Um, but I, I, I certainly, I certainly think it's, it's bad for her.

01:15:45.440 And I agree with you.

01:15:46.660 It's very, it's a very strange way to reply if you're innocent.

01:15:50.760 Um, it's, it's, it's kind of easy if you're innocent, you just say, I absolutely deny all of this.

01:15:56.420 And, uh, like, who are these people putting my family through this?

01:16:01.200 You know, that's.

01:16:03.140 Kind of, that's what I would do, but.

01:16:06.200 I was saying the other day, Jim, it'd be very clear.

01:16:08.280 Like if somebody said, you know, are you having an affair with Corey Lewandowski?

01:16:14.100 Uh, it's a no.

01:16:16.980 Yeah.

01:16:17.640 A lot of women.

01:16:18.540 Yes.

01:16:19.080 Not now.

01:16:19.540 Not now.

01:16:20.140 Not ever.

01:16:20.960 Yeah.

01:16:21.980 I know, Megan, my first thought is that Corey Lewandowski, man, he is.

01:16:26.420 It's just the Pete Davidson of the Republican party.

01:16:29.300 He is.

01:16:30.100 Really?

01:16:30.600 He is.

01:16:31.400 He's with her, her.

01:16:33.340 Jim, thank you for putting words to my feeling.

01:16:36.700 He was, reportedly he had an affair.

01:16:38.800 I think it was Hope.

01:16:39.420 I don't, I don't want to disparage Hope Hicks, but there was a report that maybe they'd been

01:16:42.880 together.

01:16:43.160 Who's like, well, the most beautiful person I've ever seen in real life.

01:16:46.280 Anyway, I don't know whether that's true, but yes, I, your point is well taken.

01:16:49.820 We've probably heard the same things.

01:16:51.100 There are a lot of rumors going around for years that almost any woman in Republican politics who

01:16:55.640 is considered attractive.

01:16:57.080 There's a rumor that that person's having an affair with Corey Lewandowski.

01:17:00.560 I believe the source of most of these rumors is Corey Lewandowski.

01:17:05.380 You know, the, the inclination of, you know, that's a, I've come out for a while with Nikki

01:17:09.820 Haley, every sleazy guy in South Carolina was like, you know, that exceptionally attractive

01:17:14.260 governor.

01:17:15.000 Yep.

01:17:15.240 We were having an affair and it was totally wrong.

01:17:18.180 I was awesome.

01:17:18.900 But yes, you know, so look, I, whether, look, I think that certainly this does not help.

01:17:26.900 I think you are, you're, you're, you're, you're finally tuned BS detector is at work in these

01:17:31.900 finally carefully worded denials.

01:17:34.120 Um, I also think just for, for Christine, look, if you are the governor of, of let's face

01:17:39.420 it, either Dakota, you're going to have a tough time ending up on a presidential ticket.

01:17:43.540 If you are a governor of a swing state, you have a very good chance of getting consideration

01:17:47.360 for being on a, uh, presidential ticket because the perception is you will help carry your state.

01:17:53.840 South Dakota is not a terribly competitive, uh, state for Republican politics.

01:17:58.160 So there will be other people who I suspect would bring more advantages to Donald Trump

01:18:03.440 if this, and who would not have this rumor over their head, whether or not it's fair.

01:18:08.680 And I think, as I said, going back to that example of Nikki Haley, this is an unfortunate

01:18:13.020 consequence of being not just a woman in politics and a woman in Republican politics, but let's

01:18:18.640 face it, an attractive woman in Republican politics.

01:18:21.400 There are a lot of guys who will like to falsely claim that they're banging you just to enhance

01:18:25.420 their own reputations.

01:18:26.480 Nevermind what it does to yours.

01:18:28.940 It's, it's upsetting to me because I actually think that Kristi Noem is a beautiful person

01:18:34.220 in more ways than one.

01:18:36.000 And I really hope it's not true.

01:18:37.960 I hope, I hope she didn't have an extramarital affair while the sitting governor with young

01:18:42.400 kids.

01:18:43.020 But even if she did, I really hope it's not with Corey Lewandowski for just, he's just

01:18:48.020 beneath her in so many ways.

01:18:50.260 I can't even begin to count them.

01:18:51.600 Um, and I also hope that if it's true, she finds a way to exit her marriage or save her

01:18:58.780 marriage, but just come, come to Jesus about it.

01:19:01.480 Right?

01:19:01.700 Like that, that's not a situation that can continue to go on and her have a political

01:19:06.360 future.

01:19:06.780 So don't know.

01:19:08.060 Again, for the record, she's denying it.

01:19:09.480 She's denying it to us.

01:19:10.520 And, um, you know, we'll see.

01:19:12.720 I mean, these are two right wing, right leaning publications, the Daily Mail and the New York

01:19:16.020 Post.

01:19:16.420 That is not like, uh, you know, salon doing some in-depth that they're, they'd have every

01:19:21.600 reason not to do a story like that on Kristi Noem and Corey Lewandowski.

01:19:25.500 And they would also happen to have a lot of Republican sourcing.

01:19:28.440 So we'll see.

01:19:29.340 Uh, they're challenging it.

01:19:30.400 Wanted to get that on the record and discuss what it means for our politics.

01:19:33.800 Jim and Maddie stick around.

01:19:35.480 We will be right back after this quick message.

01:19:40.520 While we're on the subject of, you know, alleged bad behavior, let's touch on Russell Brand

01:19:46.020 because that's been the story dominating the news waves for the past four days.

01:19:50.000 Now, uh, these three news organizations in the UK did a years long investigation into

01:19:55.420 him coming up with multiple women who say that he sexually assaulted them.

01:19:59.920 In one case, he allegedly raped a woman.

01:20:01.540 She went to a race rape crisis center.

01:20:03.360 She then received counseling for five months.

01:20:05.520 According to the reports at that rape crisis center, uh, thereafter from the trauma.

01:20:10.520 The alleged trauma she gave over her underwear and so on to be frozen as evidence.

01:20:14.340 She declined to press charges because she did not want a public battle with Russell Brand.

01:20:18.320 All of this happened allegedly 10 years ago.

01:20:20.860 Another, uh, one of the accusers says, and she now she's an adult, but she says she was

01:20:27.220 16 years old when he began, uh, grooming her that they had a sexual affair.

01:20:32.560 I don't think that's the right word, but they were having sex with on another for three

01:20:37.000 months and, um, that he did ultimately finally force himself on her to the point where she

01:20:42.780 cried.

01:20:43.240 She had to shove him off of her, punch him in the stomach to get him off of her.

01:20:46.380 And that he said something to the effect of, I only wanted to see your mascara run anyway.

01:20:50.680 Um, and there are others, there are others.

01:20:53.540 Maddie, this is such an interesting case to me for many reasons.

01:20:57.380 By the way, the headline today is that he's been demonetized on YouTube, which I actually

01:21:01.520 have some problem with.

01:21:02.880 I mean, I, I tend to believe there's plenty of evidence against Russell Brand, unlike some

01:21:07.660 of these me too situations, but I don't think his relationship with his audience and his ability

01:21:13.540 to make money should be cut off on cases that are 10 years old that he hasn't yet thoroughly

01:21:17.760 had the chance to digest or respond to.

01:21:20.400 I know they gave him eight days to look at the story, but that that's not enough.

01:21:24.420 These are very big and they could get him in trouble criminally and civilly, and he should

01:21:27.520 be given a, an, a realistic chance to, to address these charges one by one.

01:21:34.300 Um, but there's been a division, a real division now in response on this.

01:21:40.120 And so many of my friends, people I like and really respect and admire have gone to the,

01:21:47.700 we defend Russell Brand place.

01:21:49.360 Just that's what we're doing.

01:21:51.240 We're sick of me too.

01:21:52.520 We're sick of this bullshit.

01:21:53.800 We're sick and sick of seeing men's careers completely demolished based on an

01:21:57.500 anonymous allegations.

01:21:58.320 And these are anonymous, at least to us, though.

01:22:00.260 I'm sure Russell Brand knows if he slept with a 16 year old or not for three months.

01:22:05.420 And I've been saying, keep an open mind.

01:22:08.280 I, I think there's a lot of evidence in this case, unlike so many others, and we should

01:22:12.960 not change, believe all women, which was absurd into believe no women, which is equally absurd.

01:22:19.800 And I have had women texting me and contacting me privately now for the past three days in

01:22:26.440 tears, women who are more conservative leaning or who are at least moderate liberals who felt

01:22:34.120 a new alignment with a lot of these guys on the right who are commenting on this, especially

01:22:38.900 in the digital lane and feel very upset and angry that there are so few voices, at least

01:22:46.740 saying, let's keep an open mind.

01:22:49.720 They're not even saying that the reaction has been it's bullshit.

01:22:53.800 And some people online are actually saying she was 16.

01:22:58.300 Where's her responsibility in this?

01:23:00.180 My God, what are you saying?

01:23:02.120 What the conservative movement for the past two years has been losing its mind rightfully

01:23:07.180 over the fact that they're trying to trans 16 year olds.

01:23:10.660 They're letting 16 year olds make decisions about cutting off their breasts or going on

01:23:14.560 puberty blockers and cross sex hormones.

01:23:16.060 And now we want to pretend that they're fully capable of making decisions about having sexual

01:23:21.020 relations with mega stars who stopped them on the street, allegedly take them home and

01:23:26.000 try to woo them into the bedroom.

01:23:27.380 Oh, that she completely can consent to.

01:23:29.480 But no, we can't make let her make a decision on a on a hormone bullshit.

01:23:33.820 Be consistent.

01:23:34.820 Right.

01:23:35.140 I don't the whole thing is upsetting me because of the players who are involved.

01:23:40.020 But what do you make of it?

01:23:42.380 So I agree with you that the allegations appear when you look through the Times report, it

01:23:49.720 appear credible by whether they're true or not.

01:23:53.280 That's, you know, something that will hopefully come to light.

01:23:56.460 I mean, I don't know whether the Met Police are going to prosecute these individual cases

01:24:00.740 that have been reported on.

01:24:01.560 I think that depends on whether the victims go to the police.

01:24:04.140 They have received at least one report of sexual assault from Brand.

01:24:08.280 And so there will be a criminal trial.

01:24:10.540 But they certainly appear credible.

01:24:12.020 As you say, there's a lot of evidence there.

01:24:14.680 It's also not hugely surprising.

01:24:17.380 I mean, this is a guy whose launch to fame was off the back of being so promiscuous.

01:24:23.920 I mean, he was celebrated as being this wildly promiscuous person who claims he's he slept

01:24:30.260 with like over a thousand women.

01:24:32.900 How he can say with confidence what all of those sexual encounters were like, I don't know.

01:24:37.800 I don't know how he can possibly remember that.

01:24:40.480 You know, I don't remember.

01:24:41.460 I know it's a different thing.

01:24:42.340 I don't remember everybody's hand I've ever shaken and, you know, the details of it.

01:24:46.820 I don't know how if you have that many human encounters, you can you can claim to remember

01:24:51.160 it, especially when drugs and alcohol are involved.

01:24:54.400 And he's obviously spoken a lot in the past about his his addictions.

01:24:58.420 So it seems at first glance to be to be credible.

01:25:01.240 So with with regard to the people who are jumping to his defense prematurely, I think there's

01:25:07.600 an element of correctly identifying that a lot of people who were complicit in the rise

01:25:15.220 of Brand, maybe even covered for him when he was, you know, working for for the TV channel

01:25:20.660 and so on.

01:25:21.440 There's there's an element that those people are now delighting in this new information,

01:25:26.140 but they were complicit in in his position of power to begin with.

01:25:30.120 There's, you know, there's a double standard.

01:25:32.600 There's also, you know, the element of the the media that cried rape, you know, the boy

01:25:36.980 who cried wolf, the media who cried rape.

01:25:38.240 They just we've been through this so many times with me, too, that, you know, oh, here

01:25:41.220 comes another.

01:25:42.000 That's that's the kind of instinct.

01:25:44.320 And then and then there's also just the the logic of my enemy's enemy is my friend.

01:25:49.820 And Brand, of course, in the last few years has has established himself as an alternative

01:25:54.780 media broadcaster, skeptical of mainstream media, skeptical of a lot of people that

01:25:59.560 maybe Ben Shapiro and others like also dislike.

01:26:03.620 And so there's a kind of loyalty, a kind of brutal loyalty there.

01:26:06.980 But to me, one of the the interesting and disturbing factors of this case is that we seem

01:26:13.620 to have reached a point where the only behavior anybody cares about or is willing to call

01:26:19.100 unacceptable is criminal behavior.

01:26:21.740 We used to have this whole other category.

01:26:25.200 It wasn't necessarily rape, but it was taking advantage.

01:26:28.700 And that was when a guy used either, you know, his celebrity, his influence, maybe, you

01:26:35.860 know, maybe preyed upon somebody younger or somebody who was just in love with him and

01:26:39.600 he was just interested in using her for sex or or somebody who had had too much to drink.

01:26:43.820 They weren't necessarily unconscious and capable of verbally contending it at the time.

01:26:47.720 But like they they weren't in a really in a great position to make a good judgment.

01:26:51.600 And he knew that and he took advantage.

01:26:53.140 Right.

01:26:53.780 And that person we used to call a cad.

01:26:56.740 We used to say that that person has behaved shamefully.

01:27:00.940 Certainly conservatives, I would have thought, especially social conservatives would say that

01:27:06.400 person should be deeply ashamed of themselves.

01:27:08.820 And one of the heartbreaking things I read the Times report and the description of the mother

01:27:13.820 of this 16 year old girl who was who was aware of what was aware that there was a relationship

01:27:20.160 between her daughter and Brand, who I think at one point I could be misremembered this,

01:27:24.480 but I think one point was actually driving her.

01:27:27.000 Dropped her off there and he kissed her on the mouth and she still left her 16 year old

01:27:30.820 behind.

01:27:31.100 Right.

01:27:31.440 And she left her 16 year old there and she said to the Times, you know, what could I do?

01:27:35.680 It was legal.

01:27:36.880 And you're like, this is what this is what happens when there's an emphasis on a consent

01:27:42.120 only.

01:27:43.720 Like moral, like framework for for sexual ethics is the only thing that matters if it's legal.

01:27:49.940 OK, and in the UK, a 16 year old can consent to sex and therefore it's legal and therefore

01:27:55.360 it's fine.

01:27:56.040 No, I'm sorry.

01:27:56.840 There's even if even if the one incident in that report where he's alleged to have sexually

01:28:03.340 assaulted that 16 year old, even if that particular incident didn't happen, the rest of it is

01:28:09.580 still appalling.

01:28:10.820 The rest of it is still completely immoral and awful.

01:28:15.620 And and the fact that this was celebrated at the time, I understand why people are getting

01:28:19.800 annoyed that these people who were like, oh, yeah, well, like, look at Brandt.

01:28:22.720 He's so funny.

01:28:23.560 He gets so many girls like he I think was awarded like shagger of the year or something.

01:28:27.740 You know, the same people who are fine with that are now like, oh, you know, rapists like

01:28:31.380 just we're so delighted that this right winger is a rapist.

01:28:34.580 I get I get being annoyed at them.

01:28:36.120 But but to me, the bigger issue is like, I'm sorry, Russell Brandt, even if he's not guilty

01:28:41.060 of rape, he's still not the victim here.

01:28:44.800 He's I don't even think he is a right winger.

01:28:46.760 I don't consume his particular brand of commentary, Jim, but I think he's more conspiratorial than

01:28:52.520 anything.

01:28:52.820 I heard I was very happy to hear Piers Morgan, Douglas Murray, Ian Hayworth, who's been on

01:28:59.100 the show with a much more measured position, you know, on on him.

01:29:03.340 I just think as.

01:29:04.360 You know, you tell me, but as a conservative man and as somebody who's more right leaning

01:29:09.160 myself, woman, we don't need him.

01:29:12.240 Why?

01:29:12.480 Why would anybody expend capital defending this guy?

01:29:16.700 We have absolutely lovely, brilliant, honorable thinking, polite, respectful men everywhere

01:29:25.000 on this side of the aisle.

01:29:26.580 And frankly, there's a lot on the other side of the aisle, too.

01:29:28.360 But I'm just saying the need there's no need to own Russell Brandt or make sure he doesn't

01:29:34.120 get diminished in the face of these incredibly weighty charges.

01:29:38.940 Yeah, if there's anything we've learned since, oh, say the summer of 2015, and I am not picking

01:29:44.740 that time period at random, that if you are a celebrity who is the least bit not even conservative

01:29:51.840 anti-establishment, shall we say, anti-authority, skeptical of the center-left authority that

01:29:58.880 you get in government, in media, and places like that, man, there are conservatives who

01:30:03.960 will line up to defend you like it's World War I.

01:30:06.880 They will go into that trench warfare, they will suit up, and they will go over the top

01:30:11.360 to defend the good name of Russell Brandt, who's been on their side for, I believe, a whole

01:30:16.140 20 minutes or so.

01:30:17.820 Right.

01:30:18.720 I, you know, and so, look, one of the other things I want to emphasize is that, look, these

01:30:24.000 charges are serious, and whenever you hear an accusation that has a lot of specifics,

01:30:29.920 a lot of details, it makes it seem more credible.

01:30:33.960 It's not a guarantee, but when there's not a lot of details, then you start wondering,

01:30:38.040 okay, is this person trying to hide something like this?

01:30:40.820 None of us, or very few of us, I should say, actually know what happened between Russell

01:30:45.460 Brandt and these women.

01:30:46.420 We may think we know.

01:30:47.700 We may have very strong beliefs about what likely happened, and again, there are reasons

01:30:51.320 we can look at the account of an accuser.

01:30:55.000 Is it a specific time, specific place?

01:30:57.660 Can we verify that they were in that time and place?

01:30:59.780 Can we verify that the accused was in that time and place?

01:31:03.460 Are there circumstantial evidence?

01:31:05.080 Are there witnesses?

01:31:05.800 All kinds of other things that come together.

01:31:07.300 Think back to the Brett Kavanaugh hearings and the lack of corroboration of the account of

01:31:12.040 his accuser.

01:31:12.580 I think that was a very big deal, right?

01:31:13.720 Look, there are a lot of people in this world who are absolutely convinced, hmm, I can spot

01:31:18.120 a liar when I see one.

01:31:19.660 Actually, you can't.

01:31:20.800 And to verify it, I'd like to say, I want to check your attic to see if you have any

01:31:24.460 Milli Vanilli records.

01:31:25.760 I'm pretty sure, you know, a whole bunch of people who are really convinced.

01:31:28.660 Ah, I could spot a liar from a mile away.

01:31:31.300 Yeah, yeah, you're singing Blame It on the Rain, just like everybody else, right?

01:31:34.420 Like, we all like to believe we're really good at that.

01:31:37.020 But in fact, we aren't.

01:31:37.920 The world has good liars.

01:31:39.660 These accusers could be lying.

01:31:41.300 I'm not saying that they are.

01:31:42.520 Russell Brand could be lying.

01:31:43.780 I'm not saying that he is.

01:31:44.640 At this moment, I also keep in mind, we operate in a media environment and in particular social

01:31:51.160 media environment that rewards not just like hot takes, but like the instantly judgmental

01:31:56.960 takes.

01:31:57.420 Yes, these accusers are correct.

01:31:59.360 Or no, Russell Brand is a good guy.

01:32:01.440 I also totally understand the frustration that Russell Brand having been, I think, this

01:32:08.060 if not left, then like hedonist, you know, figure who was not on the right begins to make

01:32:16.080 this transformation to a more skeptical of left of center authority figure.

01:32:21.180 And now it comes out now.

01:32:22.740 And not only that, the sheer number of people who say, oh, I knew all along.

01:32:26.700 Well, why the hell did you do something, you idiot?

01:32:29.060 You know, like my favorite example of this was Ron Perlman, talented actor, Beauty and

01:32:34.220 the Beast, Hellboy, et cetera.

01:32:36.080 When the Harvey Weinstein stuff came out, everybody in Hollywood was saying, oh, I've been hearing

01:32:39.960 those stories for years.

01:32:41.020 Yeah, I knew about it and stuff.

01:32:42.440 Perlman allegedly said he knew about it.

01:32:44.300 He was appalled by Harvey's behavior.

01:32:48.020 And he apparently said he had gone to the bathroom at some event, urinated on his hands, and then

01:32:53.180 he went and he shook Harvey's hand.

01:32:56.280 Now, I'm sitting there thinking, well, you got him.

01:32:59.640 Way to go.

01:33:01.240 Did you have any backup plan that did not involve peeing on your hands?

01:33:05.100 Was there anything else you could have done?

01:33:06.700 Could you call the cops?

01:33:07.800 Could you call somebody else?

01:33:08.720 Was there any other figure who could have intervened?

01:33:11.280 Anonymous tip.

01:33:12.700 Other than saying, well, I'll bet he recognizes that was a wet handshake.

01:33:17.100 Like, got you, Harvey, in your face.

01:33:19.600 Well, probably not in his face.

01:33:20.780 That would have been the worst.

01:33:23.760 He also had to pee on his own hand, which is just like, who's really the loser in this

01:33:29.100 one, Ron?

01:33:29.700 Yeah, exactly.

01:33:31.160 I just feel like I want to say to my conservative colleagues out there, I understand that people

01:33:40.820 are reeling still from the overreach of the Me Too movement.

01:33:44.380 I have two sons.

01:33:45.820 I'm married to a good man.

01:33:47.000 I don't want to see anything like that happen to them.

01:33:49.500 But this case is different.

01:33:52.020 The amount of evidence that has come forward just in the initial reporting, and reportedly

01:33:57.580 there's more coming in each day to these reporters, I'm sure we'll see it, is truly flabbergasting.

01:34:04.100 Most women do not go to the rape crisis center.

01:34:06.160 Most women cannot produce contemporaneous medical records, therapy notes, put the doctors in

01:34:11.180 touch, in touch with the reporters.

01:34:12.440 And what we've gone to now on this reactive side is none of that's sufficient.

01:34:20.760 And I believe that if Russell Brand were charged, they'd still say it was bullshit.

01:34:26.000 And if the woman got a conviction, I think a lot of these people would still say he was

01:34:30.480 railroaded because of his politics.

01:34:32.120 And it's just there has to be some level at which your decency just kicks in and says,

01:34:36.640 it's actually not about the legality at some point.

01:34:39.660 It's just about your gut and whether you believe it and whether you think this is an ethical

01:34:44.220 good man whose lot you would like to throw in with.

01:34:47.500 So everyone's going to have to do some soul searching on that.

01:34:49.920 I hope they remember their daughters, their daughters, and the world we're creating for

01:34:55.060 them as they do.

01:34:56.740 Jim Garrity, it's a pleasure.

01:34:58.300 Thank you for putting your clothes back on.

01:35:00.140 Maddie Kearns, thanks to you as well.

01:35:02.520 That audio clip is going to go viral.

01:35:04.120 I just want you to know that.

01:35:07.160 You guys are the best.

01:35:09.080 Thanks for being here.

01:35:10.540 Thanks for having me.

01:35:10.920 OK, thanks.

01:35:11.760 I want to tell you that on Friday, Dan Bongino is coming back on the show.

01:35:15.100 That is going to be super fun.

01:35:16.560 That was one of our most viewed and downloaded episodes the first time he was on.

01:35:21.020 He's got a new book out.

01:35:21.920 By the way, he's coming on just as this big piece on Fox News dropped, courtesy of Michael

01:35:27.580 Wolfe, the author.

01:35:29.000 So Dan and I have a lot to dig into.

01:35:32.080 Looking forward to it.

01:35:33.040 Hope you'll join us.

01:35:34.580 Don't forget to subscribe to the show.

01:35:35.880 In the meantime, go ahead and subscribe.

01:35:37.840 People forget.

01:35:38.760 Hit subscribe on that little button on the podcast so that you never miss an episode

01:35:43.720 and on YouTube as well.

01:35:45.300 We'll see you tomorrow.

The Megyn Kelly Show - September 20, 2023

Garland Grilled on Hunter Investigation, and Russell Brand's Defenders, with Jim Geraghty and Maddy Kearns ｜ Ep. 631

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