The Megyn Kelly Show - George Floyd Riots Damage Persists, DEI Jobs Disappearing, and Where are Epstein Files, with Heather Mac Donald and Alan Dershowitz

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00:00:30.920 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:42.160 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.740 It may be hard to believe, but it has now been five years since the Black Lives Matter riots of 2020.

00:00:52.660 The protests caused weeks of unrest and destruction in cities across the country in the wake of the death of George Floyd.

00:01:02.100 A report by the Major City's Chiefs Association documenting 2,385 looting incidents, 625 acts of arson, including 97 police cars burned, 2,037 police officers injured from May 25th to July 31st of 2020.

00:01:24.740 David Dorn, a 77-year-old former police captain, was shot and killed during a burglary of his pawn shop in St. Louis during the riots, which were, of course, infamously described by CNN as mostly peaceful.

00:01:39.780 According to the New York Post, insurance companies made between $1 and $2 billion worth of payouts to cover the damages around the country from the week of May 26th to June 1st, 2020.

00:01:51.740 It started with the Memorial Day death of George Floyd, who died during an arrest by Minneapolis police officers, where video showed Officer Derek Chauvin with what appeared to be his knee on Floyd's neck as he shouted for help.

00:02:08.980 Officer Chauvin is now in prison after being convicted of second-degree murder, later pleading guilty to violating Floyd's civil rights.

00:02:16.480 Protests over Floyd's death quickly erupted in Minneapolis and soon after spiraled out of control, with the city overwhelmed with incidents of looting and destruction and a governor who did next to nothing.

00:02:29.580 His name was Tim Walls.

00:02:31.200 A report by the city finding the riots caused 133 structure fires, $500 million in damage, again, just from May 25th to June 3rd of 2020.

00:02:42.140 Here's some of it.

00:02:42.800 Hands up, don't shoot!

00:02:45.240 Hands up!

00:02:46.480 9901, 9901 emergency.

00:02:51.400 We got individuals breaching the gate at the 3rd precinct.

00:02:55.060 We also got people trying to breach the front doors.

00:02:59.440 We're supposed to breach the back gate.

00:03:01.520 We're taking heavy rocks.

00:03:03.320 Heavy rocks.

00:03:10.920 Airing information citywide, the 3rd precinct has been compromised.

00:03:15.240 Third precinct is up in flames.

00:03:19.220 We're going to move back.

00:03:21.740 They're starting to throw volatile cocktails.

00:03:24.820 We're going.

00:03:28.740 In perhaps the most dramatic moment, rioters took over Minneapolis' 3rd precinct, you heard it referenced there, burning it to the ground.

00:03:36.700 That happened on May 28th, exactly five years ago today.

00:03:41.300 Here's what officers said about that event from an Alpha News documentary.

00:03:45.400 So I get a command over the radio that we need to evacuate the 3rd precinct.

00:03:49.740 Evacuate now.

00:03:50.740 Evacuate now.

00:03:51.740 Evacuate now.

00:03:52.740 Evacuate now.

00:03:53.740 I said, like, right now?

00:03:54.740 We have to evacuate right now.

00:03:56.740 And they said, yes, immediately.

00:03:59.740 We run.

00:04:00.740 We run with our belts on and 50-some people and three SWAT teams, and we get to the fence.

00:04:10.740 We can't get out.

00:04:11.740 We've got to go.

00:04:12.740 We are sitting tough here.

00:04:13.740 There was only one way in and one way out, and the way out was locked.

00:04:16.740 12A3 has reached the northwest corner of the front.

00:04:20.740 Northwest corner of the front has been reached.

00:04:22.740 They're coming in.

00:04:23.740 They're coming in the back.

00:04:24.740 We need to move.

00:04:25.740 We need to move.

00:04:26.740 One of the squads rams through the fence to get it open.

00:04:31.740 I remember looking through the rearview mirror as we left.

00:04:36.740 It looked like a zombie movie.

00:04:40.740 They all just rushed to the fence and started climbing the fence, and they caused the fences to collapse.

00:04:47.740 And then they just all rushed the precinct.

00:04:49.740 But as I got maybe a quarter block away, I realized that not everyone was in vehicles.

00:04:55.740 They were running, basically, for their lives at that point.

00:05:00.740 This is allowed.

00:05:02.740 That Alpha News documentary is amazing.

00:05:04.740 It was put together by Alpha News, including Liz Collins.

00:05:06.740 She's been on the program multiple times.

00:05:08.740 But our in-depth look at the documentary with Liz is episode 670, if you want to go back and listen to it.

00:05:13.740 It's well worth your time.

00:05:16.740 They allowed the third precinct to burn.

00:05:19.740 There was a complicit mayor and, as I mentioned, the governor.

00:05:22.740 And no one was looking out for regular law-abiding citizens in Minneapolis.

00:05:28.740 And as you well know, it went far beyond Minneapolis.

00:05:33.740 The BLM bullies went coast to coast in their so-called activism, trying to target not just cops, but regular people to repeat and support their message, including this incident in Pittsburgh.

00:05:51.740 The BLM bullies went coast to coast, galloping in fishy in Pittsburgh.

00:05:58.740 Why weren't we going to fight the wrong

00:06:08.820 People being harassed as they tried to eat out

00:06:38.780 doors, which we were all forced to do because of the covid mania by these BLM rioters, protesters,

00:06:46.220 activists.

00:06:47.020 You can call them whatever you want.

00:06:48.060 They were bullies harassing private citizens into repeating their message or raising the

00:06:53.620 fist like what happened here in Washington, D.C.

00:07:01.800 For the listening audience, one woman is surrounded by dozens of mostly white people with their

00:07:08.760 fists up, trying to get her to do the same.

00:07:13.300 They're yelling, put your fist up.

00:07:16.860 White silence is violence.

00:07:30.760 Unbelievable.

00:07:31.780 Unbelievable.

00:07:32.840 We lived through this.

00:07:34.380 It was only five years ago.

00:07:36.860 The city of Minneapolis still has not recovered, despite all of the money that's poured into

00:07:42.780 that city to rebuild so-called George Floyd Square.

00:07:46.480 Many buildings showing the scars from the unrest.

00:07:50.120 The New York Post earlier this month, talking to a black man who owns an auto detailing shop

00:07:55.140 near the George Floyd Memorial, who said, quote, Black Lives Matter was never here.

00:07:59.960 I never saw them.

00:08:00.820 Even one time, everyone was just capitalizing off of a dead man.

00:08:04.640 That's what happened here.

00:08:06.000 And that's what no one will tell you.

00:08:08.060 But let's not forget what Democrats were saying at the time.

00:08:10.720 Here's what Kamala Harris told Stephen Colbert in June of 2020.

00:08:14.540 I know that there are protests still happening in major cities across the United States.

00:08:19.840 I'm just not seeing the reporting on it that I had for the first few weeks.

00:08:23.880 That's right.

00:08:24.420 But they're not going to stop.

00:08:25.500 They're not going to stop.

00:08:26.560 And this is a movement, I'm telling you.

00:08:29.720 They're not going to stop.

00:08:31.400 And everyone beware, because they're not going to stop.

00:08:34.940 They're not going to stop before Election Day in November, and they're not going to stop

00:08:38.480 after Election Day.

00:08:39.580 And that should be, everyone should take note of that on both levels, that this isn't, they're

00:08:44.620 not going to let up, and they should not, and we should not.

00:08:48.800 Cities were burning.

00:08:50.940 Cops were being regularly hurt.

00:08:53.160 She didn't care.

00:08:54.200 It's not going to stop, and we shouldn't stop.

00:08:57.020 She's now a lawyer looking for work.

00:09:00.820 Joining me now for Reaction is Manhattan Institute fellow and author of When Race Trumps Merit,

00:09:06.340 Heather McDonald.

00:09:07.020 This July, there is a global summit of BRICS nations in Rio de Janeiro, the bloc of emerging

00:09:14.740 superpowers, you know, including China, Russia, India, and Iran.

00:09:18.300 They're meeting with the goal of displacing the U.S. dollar as the global currency.

00:09:23.260 They're calling this the Rio Reset.

00:09:25.960 As BRICS nations push forward with their plans, global demand for U.S. dollars will decrease,

00:09:31.000 bringing down the value of the dollars in your savings, potentially.

00:09:33.880 While this transition won't happen overnight, the Rio Reset in July marks a pivotal moment

00:09:39.520 when BRICS objectives move decisively from theoretical possibility toward inevitable reality,

00:09:46.480 according to many experts.

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00:09:56.820 metals.

00:09:57.100 It really brings up strong emotions when you see it now five years later, the insanity, Heather,

00:10:25.360 that we were subjected to in the wake of George Floyd's death.

00:10:30.000 What's your take on the insanity we went through, whether it was temporary, whether the fever's

00:10:36.700 now broken, and where we are five years later?

00:10:40.420 Well, Megan, I think we're living through a cold riot.

00:10:43.400 We're living through a slow-motion George Floyd anarchy.

00:10:47.960 When you have Luigi Mangione assassinating a health care executive and getting widespread support,

00:10:56.640 when you have Tesla dealerships, Tesla cars being assaulted, you have assassinations of

00:11:05.720 people coming out of an Israeli museum.

00:11:09.300 This is because there was virtually no consequences for this absolutely civilization-ending mayhem.

00:11:19.240 You have judges being attacked.

00:11:21.500 I'll believe that we're good and over the George Floyd mass psychosis when I can buy toothpaste

00:11:28.860 without having to wait five minutes for a clerk maybe to come and unlock it.

00:11:34.660 When we're locking up the criminals who steal things and not locking up the things that they steal.

00:11:40.460 And I just want to emphasize, Megan, that this period of overt hatred for law and order

00:11:49.900 and for people that abide by the rules was based on a complete lie.

00:11:54.880 It is not the case that the police are systemically racism, that the criminal justice system is racist.

00:12:04.760 Here's the reality in Minneapolis itself, where Jacob Fry, who you quoted earlier, the mayor of Minneapolis,

00:12:12.720 just said on the five-year anniversary that George Floyd Square should be a sacred space

00:12:17.740 for the racial injustice that Blacks continue to suffer from.

00:12:21.080 Here's what the police chief of Minneapolis himself said.

00:12:26.340 A Black person in Minneapolis is 480 times more likely to be killed by a cop.

00:12:34.720 I'm sorry, to be killed by a Black person than he is to be killed by a cop.

00:12:40.640 Nationally, police officers are 400 times more likely to be killed by a Black male

00:12:48.160 than an unarmed Black male is to be killed by a cop.

00:12:52.660 The fact of the matter is, is that any disparities in the criminal justice system,

00:12:58.140 whether it's with regards to arrests or stops or incarceration rates,

00:13:03.480 those disparities are not based on police racism.

00:13:07.560 They're based on real differences in criminal offending.

00:13:12.080 Blacks commit the majority, the disproportionate majority of violent crime.

00:13:16.300 That's why they have more encounters with police officers.

00:13:20.500 Nevertheless, this view that George Floyd was a sacrificial lamb to systemic racism

00:13:30.160 became the jumping off point for a level of anarchy that we have not seen

00:13:38.340 and that is still a watchword for the left.

00:13:42.840 We have to be vigilant and continuously beat this thing down.

00:13:51.000 And again, the anarchy is still going on.

00:13:53.100 I'm out here in Irvine, California this Saturday in Los Angeles.

00:13:57.800 There was a crowd that rampaged through streets, tagging everything in sight.

00:14:04.700 They tagged police cars with the police still in them,

00:14:09.060 destroying subway cars, completely unchecked.

00:14:12.260 Why?

00:14:13.180 Because there were no consequences.

00:14:15.140 Because we sent the message that if you're if you're vandalizing, if you're looting in the name of of social justice,

00:14:23.800 you can get away with it.

00:14:24.860 We have an organization called BLM, you know, in addition to the overall movement of which some untold numbers say that they're a part.

00:14:34.880 But the organization of BLM has basically imploded.

00:14:38.360 Several of its founders have found themselves in trouble for allegations of fraud and related misdoings when it comes to the donations and federal investigations.

00:14:49.200 This is under the Biden administration into where the money went and whether their declarations about themselves as tax exempt entities ought to be honored.

00:14:57.940 And, you know, it's just the story after story after of the multiple homes owned by someone like Patrice colors.

00:15:04.320 So that's the organization now in tatters because of all of these things.

00:15:08.480 But so are many of our police departments, thanks to the lies that were spread about them by the BLM crowd and all of their media enablers.

00:15:20.740 Heather, you know, this week in the news is that book, Original Sin.

00:15:24.660 We had Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson on last week, and I believe I'm literally the only one to have given them a hard time about whether Jake Tapper in particular is the right messenger for this.

00:15:35.920 You've gotten a complete pass on every other program.

00:15:38.520 But, you know, he's acting dumbfounded about the fact that Joe Biden was mentally infirm while CNN was covering him and running cover for him daily.

00:15:45.820 It's the same thing.

00:15:46.860 The media was equally, if not more complicit in covering for BLM and the lies that they were telling about law enforcement.

00:15:55.960 And regular folks are still dealing with the fallout of those lies.

00:16:00.000 Well, they still are complicit because they still are.

00:16:03.420 The New York Times is gamely putting forth the the message that say if Trump gets rid of disparate impact liability,

00:16:11.960 it's going to plunge blacks back into Jim Crow and possibly even slavery, that there's so much systemic racism in this country,

00:16:21.740 that the only way that blacks can be protected is with these completely unnecessary rights to sue unwitting, non-discriminatory employers.

00:16:34.060 And it's the same thing with the police.

00:16:38.200 You know, we have made progress.

00:16:40.400 There's no question.

00:16:41.900 But you're right.

00:16:42.700 The police are demoralized.

00:16:44.280 They're still way down in many departments.

00:16:46.500 Los Angeles is way down.

00:16:48.700 And you still have the police handcuffed.

00:16:51.280 This this phony idea that that the blacks are are subject to systemic racism.

00:16:57.480 The effort to find examples of that gets pretty desperate.

00:17:02.220 So you have things like the mayor of Brandon John mayor of Chicago, Brandon Johnson,

00:17:08.020 canceling the so-called shot spotter technology.

00:17:12.080 These are audio sensors that are put up in neighborhoods to be able to hear shootings,

00:17:17.480 even when somebody in the community doesn't call them in,

00:17:20.900 which is the vast majority of shootings in in minority neighborhoods are not called in

00:17:26.580 because people sort of don't give a damn anymore.

00:17:29.420 But the technology allows the police to be able to get to shooting scenes very quickly and give aid to the victims.

00:17:37.260 Well, Brandon Johnson declared that this was a racist technology because it showed that most shootings go on in black neighborhoods.

00:17:45.400 So we're supposed to believe that non insensate, blind audio sensors are somehow discriminating against blacks.

00:17:57.620 This is this has gone on everywhere.

00:17:59.620 We're also getting rid of red light cameras because they show that the driving in inner city neighborhoods is very poor.

00:18:06.320 That's why blacks die of traffic accidents at much higher rates, because the driving in inner city neighborhoods is insane.

00:18:14.040 But we'd rather shoot the messenger and believe that red light cameras are somehow discriminating against blacks.

00:18:20.580 So those types of of completely preposterous hysterical reactions to a reality,

00:18:29.000 which is great disparities in criminal victimization and criminal offending continue to drive our criminal justice system.

00:18:37.500 Mayor Brandon Johnson was just in the news this week because he's notwithstanding the law is doubling down on his racial quotas and preferences and hiring, which is illegal.

00:18:53.860 It is illegal to consider skin color in your hiring or firing of people.

00:18:59.920 That's been the law for a long time.

00:19:01.220 But again, post George Floyd, we didn't honor it.

00:19:04.240 We just decided decided to pretend that wasn't the law.

00:19:07.020 And you could say we're only hiring blacks.

00:19:09.960 We don't hire whites here, which when you flip it, we don't hire blacks.

00:19:15.160 We only want whites.

00:19:16.700 Everybody would see its racism and illegality immediately.

00:19:19.480 But somehow we went nuts post George Floyd and we're still doing it.

00:19:23.200 And he went on camera and was like, I'm still doing it.

00:19:27.960 And then there was announcement that there was a DOJ investigation into him because this is illegal.

00:19:32.700 And in response, he decided to go off on Trump.

00:19:35.620 I think we have the soundbite.

00:19:36.600 Yes, let's watch it.

00:19:39.060 You know, as far as, you know, the president's animus towards women, people of color, working people,

00:19:48.800 we have always known who he has been.

00:19:52.260 This is not a surprise.

00:19:53.440 This is not a surprise.

00:19:55.220 He's a monster.

00:19:58.160 Period.

00:19:59.860 We have the most diverse administration in the history of Chicago.

00:20:05.180 And he is threatened by that.

00:20:08.200 You can tell when someone is fearful is because they act out.

00:20:12.260 We have a president that is screaming and having tantrums right now because we have an administration

00:20:19.660 that reflects the city of Chicago, but he would much rather have administrations that reflect

00:20:24.500 the country club.

00:20:27.160 So that man says that he's got a 6% approval rating, just FYI, 6% lower than Blagojevich did

00:20:34.440 when he was going to jail.

00:20:36.100 Go ahead, Heather.

00:20:37.200 Well, I hope he gets voted out.

00:20:38.760 You know, I'm enough of a pessimist, Megan, that I'm never going to really celebrate until

00:20:42.720 I actually see the results.

00:20:44.280 But that's just hilarious.

00:20:45.760 I hadn't heard that clip.

00:20:46.780 You know, Johnson was the one that, again, the long arm of the George Floyd insanity.

00:20:52.900 Chicago still has these marauding youth mobs that come to the Magnificent Mile and break

00:20:58.240 everything and steal everything in sight.

00:21:00.480 And every time they come, Brandon Johnson says, oh, these poor youth, we shouldn't arrest

00:21:06.360 them because they're just victims of lack of opportunity and we need to understand our

00:21:10.860 youth.

00:21:11.140 This idea that poverty, first of all, let me put poverty in like six layers of scare quotes

00:21:19.100 because it is a preposterous concept in the United States, especially with these kids.

00:21:25.920 You show me a single marauding, looting kid who does not have a smartphone and I'll eat it.

00:21:32.860 Yeah, police media is the best friend of the police.

00:21:38.220 Why?

00:21:38.520 Because these kids that are committing the lootings, that are committing the shootings, they all

00:21:43.040 have smartphones and they're throwing their gang signs on, on, you know, WhatsApp and Instagram

00:21:50.460 and showing off their guns in their cash.

00:21:53.960 Any kid that has a smartphone is not a poor child.

00:21:57.480 And by definition, anybody living in America is not poor.

00:22:00.740 You have clean water, electricity, as Heritage Foundation, Robert Rector periodically shows

00:22:06.980 up, shows the, you know, 100% practically of so-called poor people that the government

00:22:13.100 categorizes as such have cable TV, they have air conditioning.

00:22:15.620 So it's all fraud.

00:22:16.680 But Johnson says, oh, it's because they're poor.

00:22:20.100 That's absurd.

00:22:21.460 It has nothing to do with that.

00:22:22.860 But that type of excuse making and refusal to hold people to a single standard, but instead

00:22:29.660 to have racial standards of behavior is what has gotten us into this mess.

00:22:35.720 The same ideas that drive the George Floyd long arm of the cold riot has also destroyed

00:22:44.920 school discipline.

00:22:45.860 When you had the Biden and Obama administrations suing schools if they had disparate rates of

00:22:52.560 school discipline for blacks and whites on the assumption, these lawsuits were that teachers

00:22:58.100 are somehow racist, teachers, which is the most left-wing profession in the country, teacher

00:23:02.840 ed schools is two years of long marination in critical race theory and white privilege theory,

00:23:08.280 that somehow these teachers were blindly and arbitrarily disciplining black kids.

00:23:13.080 No, it's because if you, given the degree of illegitimacy and social breakdown in black

00:23:20.180 communities, yes, black kids are acting up more.

00:23:24.240 But instead, we had to have double standards of discipline and or get rid of discipline entirely.

00:23:29.960 Now, I'm generally a pessimist, Megan.

00:23:32.940 The optimists and the Trump supporters in your audience are going to be saying, wait a minute,

00:23:38.140 you're talking about ancient history.

00:23:39.640 A new age has dawned.

00:23:42.800 Trump is waging war on the phony racial victimology, on the lies about American racism, about white

00:23:52.660 people.

00:23:53.440 That is absolutely true.

00:23:55.300 And I had a very telling experience a week after the inauguration.

00:24:00.000 I was in a CBS store in Manhattan.

00:24:02.540 We all witnessed another theft, a kid with a black garbage bag who ran out the door, having

00:24:15.200 looted the store.

00:24:16.880 And the clerk, who looked like a Puerto Rican radical with dreadlocks and a long beard, shook

00:24:24.000 his head and said, maybe in another week this will be over.

00:24:27.560 In other words, Trump is going to save us.

00:24:31.680 And I was amazed because this guy looked like somebody who would be voting for maybe Bernie

00:24:36.500 Sanders, although he may be too conservative for this guy.

00:24:40.740 And he said people, and he didn't even need to mention Trump.

00:24:44.160 He just assumed that I knew what he was talking about.

00:24:46.860 And so Trump comes in with a lot of expectation from the working people, those who have lived

00:24:53.720 the brunt of this unchecked looting, this unchecked anarchy, and have seen that it's heartbreaking

00:25:02.740 to be there helpless as your store is plundered.

00:25:07.680 He has the expectations behind him.

00:25:10.560 And he is making some progress, but it is going to be a hard fight.

00:25:14.660 The Brandon Johnsons of the world are not going to go quietly.

00:25:18.540 There is too much invested in it.

00:25:21.300 There's still prosecutors who are handing out different deals explicitly based on race.

00:25:27.800 They'll plea bargain more leniently with black criminals than white criminals.

00:25:33.400 The universities are not going to go quietly into the night.

00:25:37.200 Nevertheless, it matters that we have somebody standing up there who in essence is saying,

00:25:42.480 the grift is over, I don't care, call me a racist, you can't scare me, we're going back

00:25:52.140 to civilized norms.

00:25:54.840 It's so heartening just to hear him say it and stand by it.

00:25:58.860 It's just whether he can do it is a different question.

00:26:01.440 But there's a lot, I don't know, it's just validation and hearing somebody in that position

00:26:07.620 of power speak what is actual truth.

00:26:10.200 Just say what we know is real, which is this is racist.

00:26:13.680 This whole DEI grift is racist.

00:26:17.540 A couple of things I want to get to.

00:26:19.340 First, you and I have talked about this before.

00:26:21.840 And by the way, you were on that episode with Alpha News and number 670 where we looked at

00:26:25.660 the documentary into George Floyd.

00:26:27.540 But we've spoken many times about these bogus consent decrees that first the Obama administration

00:26:35.900 and then the Biden administration, especially as it was closing out, the Biden administration

00:26:40.480 opened up with their investigations by the DOJ into various police departments.

00:26:46.120 And then they get the police departments who have zero bargaining power in this situation

00:26:49.880 to agree to these, quote, quote, consent decrees, which are ill named.

00:26:54.300 And it allows the DOJ to have authority over law enforcement and how they do policing.

00:27:00.840 So Harmeet Dillon, who is now a deputy at the DOJ, went on Tucker recently and and talked

00:27:08.820 about how this has become one of her main initiatives to dismantle these consent decrees

00:27:14.120 that make no sense, including she started with the one in Kentucky where Breonna Taylor

00:27:21.040 was killed and then one in Minneapolis where George Floyd was killed.

00:27:24.860 Here she is in SOT.

00:27:26.000 Well, let's start with SOT 18.

00:27:27.580 It was a priority of this administration to review all pending consent decrees and look

00:27:34.040 at the data and see, are these really justified?

00:27:37.100 And Tucker, I looked at these findings and I and the lawyers who report to me in the DOJ

00:27:42.580 said we cannot stand behind these conclusions.

00:27:46.280 I can't stand in front of a judge with a straight face and say that Memphis's problems are racist

00:27:52.800 cops.

00:27:53.400 I mean, they're they're not racist.

00:27:55.020 They simply are dealing with a population that happens to have a particular racial makeup.

00:27:59.620 The conclusions are not correcting for that.

00:28:01.800 The conclusions are not correcting for what neighborhoods have crime.

00:28:05.460 There's cherry picking of statistics.

00:28:08.240 She's trying to crack down on it and specifically raise the example of Memphis, Tennessee, where they

00:28:14.360 allege that there was a disproportionate amount of arrests of homeless black people.

00:28:19.720 So there must be some sort of racial animus going on with the police department.

00:28:23.760 And she said the fact is the majority of the city is black.

00:28:26.740 The majority of the police officers are black and the majority of homeless people are black,

00:28:31.520 too.

00:28:31.660 That doesn't make it racist that the majority of people who are getting arrested as and they're

00:28:38.420 homeless happen to be black.

00:28:39.880 But finally, we have an administration that looks at actual facts and data making these

00:28:45.500 calls and reversing some of the nonsense.

00:28:47.280 Well, first, I want to give a shout out to Jeff Sessions, who was Trump's first attorney

00:28:51.160 general in his first administration.

00:28:53.280 He, too, put basically an end to the consent decrees.

00:28:56.960 He time limited them.

00:28:58.100 He said, you've got to have much, much stronger evidence before you put these on.

00:29:02.800 The second administration of Trump is doing things much more publicly.

00:29:05.960 That's probably a good thing.

00:29:07.460 But anyway, he was there first.

00:29:10.780 And let's remember, you know, that Harmeet Dillons oversees the Civil Rights Division in

00:29:16.160 the in the Justice Department.

00:29:17.840 These are the lawyers who went out crying and weeping and and and moaning that they were

00:29:23.200 now in a racist administration and were being let go.

00:29:26.960 Yes, the Civil Rights Division of Justice has been infamous for years among people who know

00:29:31.860 the truth about the police.

00:29:33.080 They they have no connection to policing and they go around deciding, well, what what city

00:29:38.900 should we investigate next?

00:29:40.180 Well, I want to visit my girlfriend in Seattle.

00:29:42.420 So let's find some incident in Seattle to investigate.

00:29:46.360 They write these completely preposterous reports that are based on the phony idea of disparate

00:29:53.100 impact.

00:29:53.620 I cannot emphasize enough, Megan, to your to your listeners that this is the key thing.

00:29:59.360 Disparate impact holds that if you apply a neutral, colorblind constitutional standard

00:30:04.420 and it has a disparate impact on blacks, it's per se racist.

00:30:09.440 You're not allowed to look at behavior.

00:30:11.720 And so if you if you look at a city and find that, yes, most arrests are of are disproportionately

00:30:17.680 of blacks.

00:30:18.680 You can only conclude that's racism.

00:30:20.700 You're not allowed to look at crime.

00:30:22.420 And so these all of these reports that said Minneapolis police are racist because the

00:30:28.540 majority of their arrests are black people.

00:30:31.600 But that's because that's who's committing the crime.

00:30:34.740 So all of these consent decrees were based on a lie.

00:30:38.240 They were based on wrong information.

00:30:41.160 The only thing I would correct a little bit in what you say is that the police departments

00:30:45.220 were sort of helpless in accepting these.

00:30:47.560 Oftentimes, to my amazement and frank disgust, the police chief would go along with it, which

00:30:54.440 was such a seemingly completely voluntarily, which was such a admission of complete powerlessness

00:31:02.500 and and inefficacy.

00:31:04.200 Like you're so incompetent as a police chief that you can't enact if you say these reforms

00:31:10.840 are necessary on your own.

00:31:12.320 You need a federal monitor.

00:31:14.160 The the sort of more real politic explanation is that it allowed departments to go to the

00:31:21.860 state and say, well, we need another hundred million dollars of funding to to comply with

00:31:28.000 this federal monitor requirement and the consent decree.

00:31:33.000 So they saw it as kind of a way to leverage money.

00:31:35.060 But a lot of that money just went into the care and feeding of these ridiculous monitors who

00:31:40.460 were making millions of dollars a year.

00:31:43.540 So this is going to be a big change in morale for the police to know that they can do their

00:31:49.920 jobs, go where crime is, go where people are being victimized.

00:31:55.080 Don't worry about who you're arresting and what the color is of the criminal, because the

00:32:01.100 criminal doesn't give a damn about the color of his victim, more or less.

00:32:05.660 Although let's also be honest here, if we're going to be our honesty hour, that that the

00:32:11.600 vast majority of interracial crime is disproportionately black on white, not white on black.

00:32:18.620 About 85 percent of all interracial violent crime is is black on white rather than white

00:32:26.800 on black.

00:32:27.200 But nevertheless, the law enforcement system should be and is colorblind in going where

00:32:34.460 people are being victimized, not based on the skin color of the perpetrators.

00:32:40.460 Yeah.

00:32:40.680 And the you know, the people who are struggling economically, who in the inner city, many of

00:32:47.940 whom are black, are the ones who want more cops more than anyone.

00:32:51.260 You've done a great job of documenting that in your journalism.

00:32:54.940 The other thing that came from George Floyd Palooza was the explosion of these DEI so-called

00:33:04.360 experts.

00:33:05.520 It became this very popular degree that you could get at all these elite universities.

00:33:12.820 I mean, by the thousands, they they churned out these DEI graduates who were ready to go into

00:33:18.040 all of corporate America and DEI, if I, their companies and make sure that everybody was

00:33:25.220 learning about implicit bias and equity and all of this nonsense.

00:33:31.300 It's documented in part in Matt Walsh's brilliant documentary, Am I Racist?

00:33:36.940 But there was an interesting report on NPR on Monday, Heather, Tuesday, that was lamenting.

00:33:44.780 But to me, it was a very interesting fact, the collapse of this industry and how now under

00:33:51.600 Trump, they're all getting fired.

00:33:53.320 All these DEI heads at all these companies, they're getting fired and they're crying in

00:33:57.700 their soup because they can't get hired someplace else.

00:34:00.720 Here's a little bit of that report.

00:34:02.180 The numbers are pretty bleak.

00:34:04.160 More than twenty six hundred jobs in diversity or DEI have been eliminated in the last couple

00:34:10.340 of years.

00:34:10.840 That's more than 10 percent of the jobs that existed at the start of 2023.

00:34:16.160 This was a dramatic change from five years ago.

00:34:19.360 After George Floyd was murdered, there was this huge rush for companies to hire chief diversity

00:34:24.340 officers and other people with experience in this kind of specialized field.

00:34:29.660 But now these people are being reassigned or having their jobs renamed or in some cases

00:34:35.320 being laid off.

00:34:36.400 So this is a really steep loss of a lot of jobs, and it's affecting thousands of people

00:34:41.740 who are trained and experienced in this area.

00:34:45.320 So I know I think we're both happy about this news, but you tell me, I know you say you're

00:34:50.760 a pessimist.

00:34:51.640 Is it really possible to root out DEI from corporate America and, dare I ask, from universities?

00:35:00.220 Different question.

00:35:01.160 First of all, there were very few programs that actually had majors in DEI, but all it

00:35:08.780 took was to major in women's studies or black studies or gender studies to find yourself

00:35:14.600 qualified to be a diversity bureaucrat in a corporation.

00:35:20.060 And the idea that these are highly specialized fields is absurd.

00:35:25.220 Third, there's no means whatsoever.

00:35:28.460 It is a total grip.

00:35:30.940 Why?

00:35:31.420 In part, because there's no problem.

00:35:33.880 You know, I hate this phrase that says, well, studies have shown that DEI training doesn't

00:35:39.200 work.

00:35:39.900 I reject the entire premise of that because that presumes that there's a problem that

00:35:45.160 DEI bureaucrats are supposed to solve.

00:35:47.100 There is no problem.

00:35:48.960 There is not systemic bias in corporations against females or minorities.

00:35:53.960 The opposite is the case.

00:35:55.900 Females and minorities are being privileged at every possible opportunity.

00:36:00.400 It's straight white males who are being disadvantaged by their race and sex and sexual preferences.

00:36:06.580 So let's get that straight.

00:36:07.860 There is nothing necessary here.

00:36:10.220 Interestingly, though, you notice she slipped in that even in the corporate world, well, they're

00:36:15.220 just being renamed.

00:36:16.260 And so they're not.

00:36:18.420 OK, and that's what's going on in universities where a lot of.

00:36:22.160 Wait, wait, before we get to university before, because I know I compounded the question, but

00:36:25.420 I do want to ask you something quickly as an aside.

00:36:28.100 What you just said is so true about the young, white, straight males.

00:36:31.440 And I would posit, but I love your take on it.

00:36:35.260 You know, the Democrats are unleashing the news in The Times over the weekend was 20 million

00:36:39.720 dollars and try to figure out how to talk to white men.

00:36:42.580 They can't get, in particular, young white men to vote Democrat, and they don't understand

00:36:46.920 why.

00:36:47.840 And they're they're studying the syntax used in talking to them so that they can find a

00:36:54.240 way back in, Heather.

00:36:55.780 And I mean, what they need to do is listen to what you just said, like until they start

00:37:02.840 hiring them again and treating them as full, equal citizens who are not demonized because

00:37:10.000 of their immutable characteristics, they will continue losing them in election after election

00:37:16.040 after election.

00:37:17.580 It's people live this.

00:37:20.780 I get approached by so many people when I speak publicly saying my son had perfect MCATs

00:37:27.860 and he didn't get into any of his medical schools that he applied to.

00:37:31.860 Same with law schools.

00:37:33.280 It is systemically biased against white males.

00:37:37.120 They can also stop talking about the patriarchy.

00:37:40.240 Females to the despair of anybody who cares about civilization are taking over institutions.

00:37:46.680 That's why the universities are so in such bad shape right now, because poll after poll

00:37:51.980 shows that it's females who do not believe in the pursuit of truth, who do not believe in

00:37:56.680 academic freedom, who believe in safetyism, of shutting down ideas that some psychotic people

00:38:05.260 claim they're injured by.

00:38:08.120 So, you know, females are being privileged all the time and it's white males who live this

00:38:13.740 all the time.

00:38:14.680 So, yes, the Democratic Party should say we no longer believe that we have toxic masculinity.

00:38:21.260 We are grateful to the contribution of creating Western civilization, of creating civilization

00:38:27.340 across the world that males have given us.

00:38:31.160 And yes, it's not a question of rebranding or or getting Tim Walz out there in a in a

00:38:36.640 you know, it's nobody's fooled by that.

00:38:41.700 Studying the syntax of Joe Rogan.

00:38:44.340 Like, I don't I'm not even sure what the idea is there.

00:38:47.720 OK, now let's do universities, because Trump is in a massive fight with Harvard and Columbia

00:38:55.160 over the anti-Semitism that has exploded on college campuses.

00:38:58.600 Let's face it, in large part due to the same DEI principles about the oppressor and the

00:39:03.780 oppressed and the hierarchy of skin color, where now because whites were at the top for

00:39:08.400 a long time, they must be subjugated.

00:39:10.780 And, you know, the Ibram X.

00:39:12.040 Kendi theory, the answer to racism is more racism.

00:39:14.800 Um, Trump's trying and he's has two massive fights going with those two universities.

00:39:20.480 But you tell me whether it really can ever be routed out of the so-called academy.

00:39:27.300 Well, I'm I believe everything that Trump says about the universities is absolutely correct.

00:39:34.180 And it's actually worse than he says.

00:39:36.940 Harvard, you know, let's not forget that Larry Summers, the economist who is the president,

00:39:42.600 was run out of the presidency in large part because he dared in a academic conference to

00:39:49.640 put forward a hypothesis.

00:39:51.920 He did it very gently and and and tentatively that is actually true, which is that the disparity

00:39:58.720 in the higher end STEM fields between men and women may be based on the fact that men are

00:40:05.200 more interested in pure ideas in coding in abstract things and women are more interested in relationships

00:40:12.160 and at the high end and low end of math skills, men way outweigh females in the high end of

00:40:20.140 math and the low end of math.

00:40:21.480 That that that was unacceptable to to Harvard's community.

00:40:26.140 There's, you know, one one string after another of of free speech violations of Harvard.

00:40:32.960 There was a placemat controversy.

00:40:35.840 So these schools, it cannot be overemphasized enough.

00:40:39.000 They are are pervaded through and through with the left wing ideology.

00:40:42.800 It's in the curriculum.

00:40:44.080 It's baked into their system.

00:40:45.500 That having been said, I'm going to take issue somewhat with Trump's methods.

00:40:51.140 I think he's going too fast.

00:40:54.300 He's not.

00:40:55.160 I think he should be scrupulous about obeying the law, whatever anything he does.

00:41:01.400 I ask myself, what would we think if the left were doing this?

00:41:06.220 Is he applying playing by the rules?

00:41:08.640 We have to be concerned about the federal government seizing power that it doesn't necessarily

00:41:14.440 have illegitimately because these precedents are going to be used against us.

00:41:18.220 And I would also say this, Megan, and this is the most controversial.

00:41:23.360 I think he is using the anti-Semitism charge pretextually.

00:41:27.200 I don't think that that's the main problem with these universities, but he uses it because

00:41:32.900 people can grasp it.

00:41:34.200 There's buy-in to the fact that we should go after anti-Semitism, but I think that's

00:41:41.700 a facile diagnosis.

00:41:43.360 Yes, there's students who in their pathetic studentdom and their desire to go around in

00:41:51.740 packs and be conformist and to feel like they're the first people to ever spot injustice have

00:41:58.680 become just shameful apologists for anti-Jewish, anti-Israel terrorism.

00:42:08.260 That is true.

00:42:09.280 But I do not think that these institutions are anti-Semitic.

00:42:13.860 They are anti-West.

00:42:16.180 And that is the point that I'm sure to get to.

00:42:19.220 So and I don't know, you know, how do you prove that you're not anti-Semitic any longer?

00:42:26.380 He hasn't set out clear markers.

00:42:29.000 If you're going to be stripping funding right and left because of anti-Semitism, you have

00:42:35.180 to be clear about what it will take to get that funding back.

00:42:39.220 And because I think the diagnosis is wrong, it's not really clear what the remedy is going

00:42:43.960 to be that having been said, I'm not sure I have a solution myself because these universities,

00:42:52.240 I say the real problem is that their entire worldview is to approach every creation of

00:43:00.280 Western civilization with skepticism and with contempt.

00:43:05.700 Every humanities course, every social sciences course starts out from the premise that they're

00:43:13.480 going to read the art of Michelangelo or the music of Mozart or the novels of George

00:43:19.880 Eliot or or the philosophy of Kant and Hegel as a smokescreen for illegitimate power.

00:43:28.440 And they are going to unmask it.

00:43:30.300 That is the stance par excellence of the academic world today.

00:43:34.560 And that teaches students to hate their inheritance when instead the only obligation of universities

00:43:41.700 is to teach students to be down on their knees in gratitude for what they have been given

00:43:48.200 through no accomplishment or virtue of their own and to appreciate how fragile is the legacy

00:43:56.360 of civilized order that the West has given them.

00:44:00.100 These universities are betraying that.

00:44:01.660 So Trump is calling attention at long last.

00:44:05.180 I mean, people, not just me, but lots of people for four decades have been talking about this

00:44:11.960 and it seemed to fall on deaf ears.

00:44:13.860 So I certainly applaud Trump for making this a central aspect of his administration.

00:44:20.560 But I share your hint of doubt, Megan, whether this can be done quickly.

00:44:28.980 And I'm also a little bit worried that Trump is actually kind of looking like a maniac now.

00:44:35.440 I mean, I get the argument that it's a lot easier if you single out like Harvard, which

00:44:42.140 everybody hates because it's so damn wealthy and it sits on its fat hedge fund, a $53 billion

00:44:48.720 endowment as it goes around with its cup saying to the federal government, if you pull our funding,

00:44:55.140 we're going to just die and what will the American be without Harvard?

00:44:59.180 So I get that.

00:45:00.700 But at some point, it looks a bit deranged where he's just coming in with one day after

00:45:07.080 another with another sort of funding removal.

00:45:13.700 And now this may be that I'm way too much like with my ear trying to hear the left, but

00:45:20.460 But I would almost say that he's making Harvard look like a virtuous David standing up against

00:45:28.640 the big mean, the line of government because he is the a lot of these executive orders have

00:45:36.520 ignored.

00:45:39.180 Written, you know, legal procedures for how you go about stripping funding, and he's just

00:45:44.440 done it.

00:45:45.420 And I think that's.

00:45:46.200 The president of Harvard was also on NPR.

00:45:51.400 I listen to NPR's morning show every day so that you don't have to.

00:45:55.080 And occasionally they do have something interesting on there, like that DEI report, though it was

00:45:58.740 interesting to me for very different reasons than it was interesting to them.

00:46:01.560 Anyway, they did they did this week have the current president of Harvard on in an interview.

00:46:07.640 It was in connection with this fight they're having with Trump over defunding.

00:46:13.600 And the president, Alan Garber, did say something that caught my attention.

00:46:18.700 I don't know whether I believe one word of this, Heather, but tell me how you feel sought

00:46:23.480 17.

00:46:24.960 And it's particularly concerning when people who have views that they think are unpopular

00:46:30.180 and the administration and others have said conservatives are too few on campus and their

00:46:37.700 views are not welcome.

00:46:38.620 And so far as that's true, that's a problem we really need to address.

00:46:42.940 Is it true?

00:46:44.040 I think that we have heard from some people that they do feel that way.

00:46:48.100 So we certainly need to address that.

00:46:52.660 It's amazing.

00:46:53.480 That second part, he won't admit that it's true.

00:46:55.520 Just some people feel that that conservatives are too few on Harvard's campus.

00:46:59.700 I'm sorry, like this is I really I should just be on our team completely and not have any

00:47:06.580 well on the other hand, because it is sickening to hear these universities garber when as soon

00:47:12.280 as Trump started in this, he sent around all these emails to the Harvard community about

00:47:16.680 how Trump is threatening us.

00:47:18.820 We free beacons of free speech and free inquiry.

00:47:22.000 And we're the source of enlightenment and openness in society.

00:47:26.580 It makes me throw up.

00:47:27.980 This is ridiculous.

00:47:29.140 These are sources of censorship.

00:47:31.960 It is not just a hypothesis.

00:47:34.220 It is true.

00:47:35.460 They go to Harvard.

00:47:36.840 It wasn't a university wide mandate, but many divisions, many departments required any

00:47:42.260 applying faculty member or faculty members that wanted to get promoted to sign loyalty

00:47:48.400 owes to diversity, equity and inclusion, which basically means I agree that systemic racism

00:47:53.340 is the problem.

00:47:54.200 If we don't have enough blacks at Harvard, it's because we're discriminating against them in

00:47:57.960 our admissions office, which is absurd.

00:48:00.240 It's just the opposite.

00:48:01.620 You're discriminating in favor of blacks.

00:48:06.240 Students do not feel like they can express in classrooms or in social settings, dissenting views

00:48:14.140 on race, on gender, on family structure, you name it, the disparities in political affiliation.

00:48:25.520 Now, I think that's less of a metric that we should look at, but it is useful, I guess,

00:48:30.920 to see, because I can imagine a school that is 100% Democrat, where those professors are

00:48:37.840 so committed to open discourse and so committed to not just institutional neutrality, but faculty

00:48:44.840 neutrality, that they assiduously keep their point of view out of the classroom.

00:48:49.100 In that case, it wouldn't matter.

00:48:51.360 But nevertheless, these schools are not in any shape or form supportive of free speech.

00:48:59.820 And yes, they are complete ideological monocultures.

00:49:02.740 But the difficulty is, again, I keep having to look at the other side.

00:49:08.560 It is not a good precedent for the Trump administration to say to Harvard, you are going to engineer

00:49:18.680 viewpoint diversity or you lose your funding.

00:49:21.500 Because what if the Kamala Harris administration said to a university, you are going to engineer

00:49:28.120 understanding of systemic racism or you'll use your lose your funding?

00:49:33.940 All of it will be used by the other side.

00:49:38.760 Now, the response to that is they're already doing it.

00:49:41.940 You know, they're already using power illegitimately.

00:49:46.160 So it's our turn now.

00:49:47.900 And I get that argument, too.

00:49:49.540 It's a very difficult question.

00:49:51.100 Um, so, you know, maybe I just don't have the stomach for the fight, but I to me, I just I think

00:49:58.400 it's funny because to me, he sounds like one of those characters in a Jane Austen novel.

00:50:03.480 Like, I would never say it about myself.

00:50:05.480 I only know that some people say I'm amazing.

00:50:07.420 It's like I have no idea that whether there's actually a viewpoint problem in not having diversity

00:50:13.140 here on that front.

00:50:14.380 I only know that some people claim it.

00:50:16.260 Yes, many people do claim it because it's obviously fact.

00:50:20.460 And the fact that you can't just acknowledge it is hashtag part of the problem.

00:50:25.200 Heather, always a pleasure.

00:50:26.640 I love talking to you.

00:50:27.740 Thank you so much for being here.

00:50:29.500 Thank you, Megan.

00:50:30.100 I appreciate it.

00:50:31.440 All right.

00:50:31.740 Well, back next with speaking of Harvard, Harvard professor of 60 years, Alan Dershowitz.

00:50:37.960 Next.

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00:52:09.220 We just talked Harvard with Heather McDonald, and we've got to get into that and more with

00:52:14.080 Professor Emeritus at Harvard Law School, Alan Dershowitz.

00:52:18.600 I mean, when you think Harvard, you think Alan Dershowitz.

00:52:21.360 I do, he's like their most famous professor for the longest time, and he's got thoughts

00:52:25.860 on what's happening between Trump, who's a former client of Alan's.

00:52:28.620 He defended him in the first impeachment trial, and Harvard, too.

00:52:33.720 Alan has also just released a new book called The Preventive State, The Challenge of Preventing

00:52:40.980 Serious Harms While Preserving Essential Liberties.

00:52:45.400 It's available right now.

00:52:46.700 Alan's calling this his magnus opus, that this is it.

00:52:51.280 This is the book that you've got to read if you like Alan's viewpoints on various subjects.

00:52:55.720 We'll get to that one second.

00:52:56.680 Alan, great to see you.

00:52:58.100 So let's pick up where we left off with Heather, who said she's really not sure about Trump's

00:53:04.100 methods in cracking down on Harvard, though she's not opposed to the general thoughts.

00:53:09.580 But she also thinks it's about much more than anti-Semitism.

00:53:13.740 She thinks, really, Harvard's problem is it's anti-West.

00:53:17.060 Your thoughts?

00:53:18.400 Well, I think it's a both.

00:53:20.040 Obviously, it's anti-Western, anti-Christian, but it's primarily anti-Semitic in terms of

00:53:26.840 the demonstrations that have occurred.

00:53:29.100 To an example, a bunch of thugs, one from the law school, one from the divinity school,

00:53:35.480 and a few other people, surrounded an Israeli student, put an Arab garb on his head, wouldn't

00:53:42.980 allow him to move, wouldn't allow him to say or do anything.

00:53:48.140 And the school said they would punish these students for their harassing behavior.

00:53:53.440 Instead, the divinity school made one of them the class marshal, which was the highest honor

00:53:58.180 at graduation.

00:53:59.360 And the other one was given a $65,000 scholarship from the Harvard Law School in order to...

00:54:05.480 continue his anti-Israel work at an anti-Israel organization.

00:54:09.500 So, you know, in one respect, it understates the problem of anti-Semitism.

00:54:14.160 Harvard not only tolerates it, it teaches it in the divinity school, which is a cesspool.

00:54:20.320 In the name of Christianity, in the false name of Christianity, the divinity school, this

00:54:24.860 is according to the Harvard report, not me, according to the Harvard report, is a centerpiece

00:54:29.580 of anti-Semitism at Harvard.

00:54:31.380 The public health school, similarly, the Carr Center for Human Rights, has become a sewer

00:54:38.380 for anti-Semitism.

00:54:40.040 So there is a lot of anti-Semitism.

00:54:42.720 A lot of it is a manifestation of anti-Western, anti-Christian values.

00:54:47.320 But the core group that is being attacked, because they are a distinct minority, are Jews,

00:54:53.720 Israelis, Zionists, Christian Zionists.

00:54:56.520 You know, in my book, The Preventive State, I predicted what happened tragically last week

00:55:03.000 in Washington, D.C.

00:55:04.000 I predicted that there'd be shootings.

00:55:06.220 How did I know there'd be shootings?

00:55:07.940 Because you'll recall this, Megan.

00:55:09.340 I defended many protesters in the 60s and 70s, anti-war protesters.

00:55:14.760 And I saw some of my own clients become murderers.

00:55:17.960 Kathy Boudin became a murderer.

00:55:21.400 The line between violent protests, making bombs, shooting somebody, is a very thin line.

00:55:29.420 And so I think we have to take preventive action, including, for example, one of the

00:55:34.780 most important preventive actions you can ever take is denying people the right to come

00:55:39.080 into the country and deporting them if they engage in illegal conduct.

00:55:42.880 That goes back to the Bible.

00:55:44.600 It's called exile.

00:55:45.640 We call it deportation.

00:55:46.820 They called it exile.

00:55:48.460 People were exiled when they threatened the legitimacy of the country.

00:55:52.740 So we can take a lot of preventive measures to assure that these shootings like last week

00:55:59.120 didn't occur.

00:55:59.740 You know, I got an honorary degree the day after the shootings.

00:56:02.800 The school that gave me the degree had to redouble their security.

00:56:07.120 They had to give me a security plan telling me how to escape, to make sure that there were

00:56:12.280 policemen there with shields to protect my life.

00:56:15.920 Because I'm an outspoken, prominent Jew who supports Israel.

00:56:21.720 And everybody has a target on their back.

00:56:25.280 You know, they come for the Jews first, but it's not long before they come for other perceived

00:56:30.860 enemies of the radical, correct approach to life.

00:56:35.140 These folks from DEI and from intersectionality know no principles, no morality, and they will

00:56:41.940 come after you after they come after us.

00:56:43.840 Did you happen to see last week, Alan, the segment with the CNN anchor Sarah Sidner, or Sidner is her

00:56:52.880 name, where an eyewitness to that double murder of those two young people leaving the Israeli event,

00:57:02.200 an eyewitness went on CNN and was still very jarred.

00:57:07.440 It had just happened the night before, and he made a correlation to what we're seeing on college

00:57:12.500 campuses.

00:57:13.400 And the anchor absolutely revolted in response.

00:57:17.860 Like, I'm sure you don't mean to conflate this double murder with anything we've seen

00:57:23.540 on college campuses.

00:57:24.600 And this young man was like, well, you know, actually, I'm okay with some conflation here.

00:57:29.840 It's the exact same messages that we're hearing in both places.

00:57:32.220 She did her level best to try to knock him off of that viewpoint.

00:57:36.240 I thought it was a valid place to go.

00:57:38.760 He wasn't saying one directly caused the other, but he was saying exact same rhetoric.

00:57:42.860 And it actually happens to be, I know this is a problem for us free speech lovers, and

00:57:46.840 you are definitely one, somewhat dangerous rhetoric.

00:57:50.120 Your thoughts on it?

00:57:51.360 Well, there's no question that globalize the Intifada means kill Jews all around the world.

00:57:56.020 And we know that people understand it that way.

00:57:58.420 I think it's intended that way, but even if it weren't intended that way, that's the

00:58:03.580 way it's understood.

00:58:04.760 And we saw this guy who killed these two people was essentially mimicking those statements.

00:58:12.100 Now, the vast majority of people who participate in these demonstrations would never, ever kill.

00:58:17.360 But the majority of people who do kill or do plant bombs, do shoot, are influenced by these

00:58:24.080 college demonstrations, which have become legitimated.

00:58:26.780 Look, both Vice President Kamala Harris and her vice presidential nominee both legitimated

00:58:35.360 the protests on campus.

00:58:36.900 And these protests included from the river to the sea, there'll be no Jews, you know,

00:58:40.900 Judenrein, from the river to the sea, and globalize the Intifada.

00:58:44.960 Those are incitements to violence.

00:58:48.760 Now, those incitements are protected free speech because they're not directed at a particular

00:58:53.800 person.

00:58:54.280 That doesn't mean Harvard has to tolerate them.

00:58:57.220 You know, the one thing, the one reason why I think it is anti-Semitism, and the definition

00:59:04.540 of anti-Semitism is very simple, applying a double standard to things Jewish, including

00:59:08.260 the Jewish state.

00:59:09.460 And it is a double standard.

00:59:11.080 What has been tolerated against Jews would never be tolerated against blacks or gays.

00:59:17.640 Can you imagine somebody who had a reputation for harassing blacks or gays on campus, getting

00:59:23.400 elected class marshal, or being given a $65,000 scholarship?

00:59:27.440 It would never happen.

00:59:29.360 It's the double standard.

00:59:31.200 It's what is permissible to be said against Zionists, Christians, Jews.

00:59:35.760 The West can't be said against people who are favored and privileged.

00:59:41.120 And let me use that word very clearly.

00:59:42.580 There's no group on campus that's more privileged today than African Americans.

00:59:48.240 Gays are privileged on campus.

00:59:50.200 They may not be privileged off campus, but we're talking about on campus.

00:59:54.340 These are the most privileged groups.

00:59:56.440 These are the groups that get all the advantages.

00:59:59.140 And yet we have DEI, and we have intersectionality, and we have all these fake academic programs that

01:00:05.820 are being taught at schools at Harvard, schools at Harvard.

01:00:09.480 And I can tell you, having been there 60 years, today there is no room, no room on the campus

01:00:16.340 for pro-Israel, pro-American, pro-Western statements.

01:00:20.220 I have been retired from Harvard now almost 12 years.

01:00:22.660 I have never been invited back to speak about Israel.

01:00:25.640 The one time a student group invited me, they had to take my speech off campus for fear

01:00:31.460 that I would be physically harmed if I made the case for a two-state solution for Israel.

01:00:37.280 And let's remember one more thing.

01:00:39.020 Not a single one of these demonstrations, not a single one has ever called for a two-state

01:00:44.040 solution.

01:00:45.020 They do not want Israel to exist.

01:00:47.960 In fact, they prefer a no-state solution to a two-state solution.

01:00:52.000 Obviously, their preference is for a one-state solution.

01:00:55.160 So none of these demonstrations are pro-Palestinian.

01:00:58.880 They are anti-Israel, anti-Semitic, anti-Zionist, anti-Western, anti-Christian, and they are embedded

01:01:05.960 within the school.

01:01:07.020 And thank God that Donald Trump is doing something about it.

01:01:10.220 I agree with your prior guest.

01:01:11.880 I think that sometimes he goes too far.

01:01:14.300 For example, he shouldn't be defunding cancer research.

01:01:17.660 He shouldn't be keeping students out by denying them visas if they're good students and if they

01:01:25.000 support values that we support.

01:01:27.420 But remember, when it comes to coming into the United States, no one has a constitutional

01:01:31.960 right to come into the United States and then preach against the values that make our country

01:01:37.960 But let me just say this.

01:01:39.060 Let me just interject because he's now ordered a review.

01:01:41.720 He wants all of our embassies taking a much harder look at those seeking student visas to

01:01:46.300 check social media and other things to make like, who are we letting in?

01:01:49.220 We don't seem to have a very good vetting process.

01:01:51.200 But with respect to Harvard in particular, he said if Harvard doesn't turn over all the

01:01:56.220 data he's demanded on who the foreign students are and other facts around them, then all of

01:02:04.360 the foreign students who are there now, some 7,000 of them, are done.

01:02:08.520 They'll be kicked out.

01:02:09.740 Harvard will lose its rights to have foreign students starting in the fall of 2025.

01:02:15.600 So that's one piece of where the latest fight is as he tries to get more documentation from

01:02:19.920 them.

01:02:20.220 And two other pieces I'd love to get your take on are he's announced now he intends to

01:02:24.880 cancel the federal government's remaining federal contracts with Harvard worth an estimated

01:02:29.400 100 million.

01:02:30.680 This is kind of what he was doing to those individual law firms that he was targeting,

01:02:34.280 saying, I don't think the federal government wants to do business with your law firm.

01:02:37.300 So or necessarily the clients who use you so that he's doing that with Harvard.

01:02:42.360 And he's also threatening to withhold three billion dollars from Harvard and give the money

01:02:46.520 to trade schools instead.

01:02:49.700 I'm not exactly sure where the three billion is coming from, but he's saying he's going

01:02:54.420 to pull from them potentially the three billion and definitely the 100 million in federal contracts.

01:02:58.200 What do you make of those two things?

01:03:00.060 Well, again, I think it's a good idea to reallocate some of the funds to trade schools.

01:03:04.300 Those are very important institutions in America, and they need the money perhaps more than Harvard

01:03:10.460 with a fifty three billion dollar endowment.

01:03:13.340 But again, I think it could be overgeneralized when you focus on all the visas.

01:03:19.540 Look, Harvard has too many foreign students.

01:03:21.360 When I started teaching at Harvard, what, three percent, five percent.

01:03:24.980 Now it was up to almost 30 percent.

01:03:27.900 Yeah, almost every foreign student who gets a place at Harvard means an American student doesn't

01:03:32.620 get a place.

01:03:33.180 I think Harvard has cynically raised the number of foreign students for financial reasons,

01:03:39.760 but it has produced ideological results because I think a very high percentage of the anti-Americanism,

01:03:46.040 anti-Semitism is focused on some, not all, obviously, of these foreign students.

01:03:51.100 So I think vetting foreign students is a good idea.

01:03:53.580 By the way, before you can become a citizen of the United States, you have to take all kinds

01:03:57.640 of oaths to support things that the First Amendment would never require you to support.

01:04:02.760 So there's a big difference between your rights once you're here and once you're a citizen

01:04:07.260 or a permanent resident and what you can say and then expect to get into the United States.

01:04:12.580 I think Oliver and Holmes put it well a long time ago in an opinion involving, I think it

01:04:16.600 was a racist policeman saying he may have a right to be a racist, but he has no right to

01:04:20.560 be a policeman if he is a racist.

01:04:22.060 I think that's true at Harvard, too.

01:04:24.720 I don't think you have a right to get awards, get prizes, or generally get federal funding

01:04:29.980 if you're engaged in bigotry, anti-Semitism, violations of Title VI.

01:04:34.780 Let's just take this back to the 1950s when I was a college student.

01:04:40.140 In the South, after Brown v. Board, some Southern schools were still allowing Klansmen to come on

01:04:46.520 campus and harass black students.

01:04:48.980 They were teaching white supremacy.

01:04:50.940 If in those days the federal government had cut off some funding to those universities,

01:04:55.640 every liberal in the world would be applauding it.

01:04:58.120 Or even go back 20 years early in the 1930s.

01:05:01.380 Harvard, under President Conant, was supporting Nazism.

01:05:05.660 It was sending professors to celebrate Nazi universities that had excluded Jews.

01:05:10.780 It was bringing in Nazi professors and Nazi students.

01:05:15.040 If the federal government had said at that point, no visas for Nazis,

01:05:18.760 even though Nazis had the right to congregate in Madison Square Garden, as they did

01:05:22.760 in the late 1930s and early 1940s, we'd all be applauding that.

01:05:27.900 So you can't have a separate standard for Jews and for Zion.

01:05:32.580 No, it's just like what you were saying earlier, like these chants about globalize the Intifada.

01:05:36.000 We can understand if they were all over college campuses saying,

01:05:38.420 kill all the Christians, kill all the Christians, it would be very clear they had to go,

01:05:43.680 that this is completely inappropriate and that no Christian student would feel comfortable on

01:05:48.440 campus.

01:05:49.120 Well, that's what globalize the Intifada means.

01:05:50.940 That's what they're talking about.

01:05:52.080 From the river to the sea, same thing.

01:05:54.360 So, I mean, it doesn't lose its pernicious import just because the targeted group is quite a minority,

01:06:01.120 is a very small minority in the United States and in the world.

01:06:04.720 Okay, I want to keep going.

01:06:06.500 Yeah, keep going.

01:06:06.920 A smaller minority now, when I started, when I was teaching at Harvard, about 23% of the

01:06:13.360 student body was Jewish.

01:06:14.880 Now it's below 10%, which was the anti-Jewish quota that was imposed by President Lowell.

01:06:21.560 The number of Jewish students now are lower than that.

01:06:24.660 It's true of the number of white students in general.

01:06:28.020 And we've seen a dramatic change in the demographics of the university.

01:06:33.240 And that's part of the end of meritocracy.

01:06:36.060 You know, we'll never get back to having universities first grade again unless we get back to meritocracy.

01:06:41.900 Broadly defined, I'm not talking about grades or SAT scores.

01:06:44.900 I'm talking about what the merits are.

01:06:46.820 When you pick your surgeon, you want the best surgeon in the world.

01:06:50.260 You don't care how far he's developed or what he's come from.

01:06:53.260 Now, when you have a pilot on an airplane-

01:06:55.180 When you pick your pilot, yeah, same.

01:06:57.180 We should have the best students at Harvard meritocratically selected.

01:07:01.280 And I think meritocracy always produces some diversity.

01:07:04.940 Maybe not enough, but it produces diversity.

01:07:07.340 We have to get back to meritocracy.

01:07:10.140 Harvard undid its Harvard reputation.

01:07:13.380 Harvard did that.

01:07:14.360 Harvard used to be in a class of really just one, like Harvard.

01:07:17.380 That was the goal.

01:07:18.140 You could be at Harvard or teach at Harvard.

01:07:19.980 It was the gold standard.

01:07:21.300 It was like the unattainable height of heights.

01:07:24.180 And they've beclowned themselves.

01:07:25.940 Now it's like a hotbed of anti-Semitism.

01:07:27.900 I would never send my kids there to go make them into little anti-Semites.

01:07:30.900 No thanks.

01:07:32.100 Forget about anti-Semitism for a minute.

01:07:34.100 The Harvard Corporation picked as its president, Claudine Gay, a clear DEI choice, a clear affirmative action choice, utterly unqualified, probably unqualified to be a professor.

01:07:44.720 Ultimately charged with a plagiarism.

01:07:48.680 Why would anybody pick Claudine Gay, who was against the First Amendment, against free speech, fired a professor because he represented somebody that she didn't like?

01:07:58.600 And this is the corporation headed by Penny Pritzker, who's still the chairman of the corporation.

01:08:05.220 You'd think you fire the person who hired Claudine Gay to be the president.

01:08:09.680 But no, she's still in the corporation.

01:08:12.360 And so the problem goes deeper than anti-Semitism.

01:08:16.120 It goes deeper than any kind of bigotry.

01:08:19.180 It goes to changing Harvard's motto from veritas, truth, to mediocritas.

01:08:25.960 We'll accept mediocrity now as long as it satisfies social justice principles.

01:08:31.320 Yeah.

01:08:31.780 Well, you say, who would put Claudine Gay at the head of the Harvard University?

01:08:36.020 Who would put Kamala Harris at the head of the United States?

01:08:38.180 I mean, the same principle.

01:08:39.960 I mean, Kamala Harris, let's face it, was a DEI hire as vice president and would have been a DEI hire had we voted her in as president.

01:08:46.080 She was just in Australia as an aside this week because some real estate conference hired her to speak.

01:08:52.660 She's represented by CAA here in America, one of the biggest agencies out there.

01:08:56.540 And they're apparently having trouble finding jobs for her domestically because they had to ship her halfway around the world in order to get a paid gig.

01:09:03.160 And I just want the audience to know this is how she sounds.

01:09:05.940 This is what they paid I don't know how much for.

01:09:08.260 She sounds just like Kamala Harris.

01:09:10.080 Here's thought 10.

01:09:10.780 You have the ability to understand the context in which you live, the context in which others live.

01:09:18.160 You're more likely to then connect with them and understand what's important to them.

01:09:23.660 I mean, this is the thing that I've also known about life and I'm sure going here understands.

01:09:28.480 The vast majority of human beings are very intelligent, regardless of their education level, regardless of where they're from,

01:09:41.180 and intelligent enough to know whether when you are looking at them, you are looking at them with a level of respect.

01:09:48.580 Oh, my Lord.

01:09:49.100 They will know that you are someone who is actually interested in their life and their reality and their fears and their dreams or not.

01:10:03.220 It requires you to be self-aware enough to understand that you may not understand their life.

01:10:09.060 Oh, my God.

01:10:10.080 And then do some work to figure out how you can understand it better.

01:10:15.000 My head hurts, Alan.

01:10:17.360 Yeah.

01:10:17.640 That's $1,000 a cliche and she's getting paid.

01:10:22.280 At least.

01:10:23.620 I mean, you've been around actual smart people enough in your life.

01:10:26.960 I'm sorry, but we were being sold a bill of goods.

01:10:31.440 Like, there's no there there.

01:10:32.980 This is what DEI gets you.

01:10:34.640 It gets you an empty suit who they prop up as, in her case, the next Obama, when we all knew she was not the next Obama,

01:10:42.820 or Claudine Gay as, you know, some intellect who could not be touched.

01:10:47.680 She could not be questioned.

01:10:48.980 Remember who Claudine Gay replaced two later was Larry Summers, who was the most brilliant president of Harvard, former secretary of treasury.

01:10:58.000 He got fired, not because of what he said about women.

01:11:01.160 That was the excuse.

01:11:02.520 He got fired because he was perceived by the left as being pro-Israel.

01:11:06.140 And, in fact, there was a cartoon in one of the local newspapers, and it had Larry Summers on his hands and knees begging the corporation, saying,

01:11:14.920 No, no, no, I didn't say women aren't good at math.

01:11:17.780 I said Israel is an apartheid state.

01:11:19.640 Now can I have my job back?

01:11:21.520 So, evangelism started with the firing of Larry Summers.

01:11:27.360 And, you know, when I started teaching at Harvard, I was the first, quote, Jewish Jew at Harvard,

01:11:35.200 the first Jew who wore his Jewishness on his sleeve and stood up and defended the rights of Jewish students.

01:11:41.280 Harvard had had a sordid reputation in relation to Jews for many years, and tragically, he's coming back.

01:11:48.320 Look, Alan Garber is a very decent guy.

01:11:50.460 He's trying his best, but he has a hard-left faculty that won't let him sit down and negotiate.

01:11:55.780 He should be negotiating with the president, President Trump, and giving in on about 80 percent of what the Trump administration wants.

01:12:04.020 Well, that's the problem.

01:12:04.420 He says he is negotiating, and he says, Oh, well, we offered data on foreign students that was responsive to his requests,

01:12:11.640 but we only had a couple of students that fell within his categories.

01:12:15.500 And Trump accurately deduced, I'm sure, a lie, that they cast a wide net,

01:12:21.560 and they got back only a couple of students whose data was responsive.

01:12:25.300 Trump doesn't believe them.

01:12:26.680 Pam Bondi doesn't believe them.

01:12:28.100 So they're upping the ante.

01:12:29.300 Well, I understand that.

01:12:31.700 And look, the key now is to prevent more of what happened in the District of Columbia last week,

01:12:38.580 because I think it's going to increase.

01:12:40.680 I think we're going to see more and more people crossing that line,

01:12:44.080 because we're going to see T-shirts with the killer.

01:12:46.680 We've already seen people praising the killer.

01:12:50.520 I'm not even going to mention his name.

01:12:51.760 But, and the same way we saw Mangione, T-shirts and people praising him.

01:12:57.980 Once we begin to praise terrorists and killers, we become Hamas-like.

01:13:03.280 And, you know, we're very far away from that.

01:13:05.540 But we can get there.

01:13:07.360 Again, just to mention my book, The Preventive State,

01:13:10.740 I go through all the mechanisms that we have used historically to prevent the spread of illnesses,

01:13:16.680 to prevent terrorism.

01:13:18.860 And it's dangerous, because the more we do to prevent,

01:13:22.160 the more we can restrict freedom of speech and other freedoms.

01:13:26.380 So we have to strike the appropriate balance.

01:13:28.660 We're in a very critical stage now, because the threats are cataclysmic, nuclear war, pandemics.

01:13:36.260 But our ability through AI and other mechanisms to prevent and predict these threats are greater than they've ever been.

01:13:42.720 And so it's important to create a jurisprudential framework for allowing us to take preventive action.

01:13:49.620 And deportation is one of the keys to it.

01:13:52.380 Deciding who lives in this country is the single most important preventive measure we can take.

01:13:58.960 And if we can keep our country free of terrorists, of people who come from across the border illegally,

01:14:05.420 we will have a much, much better country.

01:14:08.060 But we have to do it within the rule of law.

01:14:10.440 And I think the Supreme Court ultimately will uphold the presidential decision who comes into the country,

01:14:17.320 but will make him do it by crossing every constitutional T and dotting every constitutional I.

01:14:23.180 But that in a way is stopping it altogether.

01:14:26.280 You know, if you gave each one of these people here.

01:14:28.140 I got to take a break.

01:14:29.120 I got to take a break and then we'll pick it up on the back and stand by more with Alan.

01:14:32.400 After this, on his new book, The Preventive State, you heard him describe it there.

01:14:37.280 This is his magnum opus.

01:14:39.520 He really wants you to read this one.

01:14:40.940 And as you can hear, it's a very timely read.

01:14:44.260 Stand by.

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01:17:47.920 Alan, a couple of things I want to ask you about in the legal world.

01:17:55.440 One, Trump's war against certain law firms.

01:17:58.600 And two, his attempt to rein in California, among other states, in their refusal to comply with his executive order preventing boys from playing in girls' sports.

01:18:08.640 So the war on certain law firms has been very interesting.

01:18:13.520 Trump's got a grudge against some who hired his nemesis.

01:18:18.280 And it says, you know what, like Paul Weiss, you're no good because you hired this guy who hated me and tried to get me criminally prosecuted.

01:18:24.500 And therefore, I don't think the federal government wants to do business with you anymore, which is a major threat to these law firms because their clients are calling them up saying, hey, if you can't do business with the federal government, I can't have you as my lawyer.

01:18:36.100 Like, I'm in an industry that does business with them.

01:18:38.320 I can't lose all my contracts, et cetera.

01:18:39.600 So it's not just Paul Weiss.

01:18:41.260 It's been a law firm.

01:18:42.360 Wilmer Hale just got a victory because it's one of the handful.

01:18:46.180 Many of the law firms have just submitted to Trump and said, we'll do what you want.

01:18:49.740 And it's included creating like pro bono law work for clients of Trump's preference and so on.

01:18:58.140 Some have fought back, like Wilmer Hale saying, this is totally illegal.

01:19:01.600 You can't interfere with a private law firm saying you can have these clients and you can't have those lawyers and so on.

01:19:07.720 And on Tuesday, a judge struck down his executive order against Wilmer Hale and was not happy about it.

01:19:15.260 His name is Judge Richard J. Leon of the Federal District Court for the District of D.C.

01:19:20.080 said it was unconstitutional, must be struck down in its entirety, adding that Mr.

01:19:24.220 Trump appeared, quoting here from The Times, intent on driving the firm to the bargaining table by imposing a kitchen sink of severe sanctions.

01:19:31.040 He said in the ruling, the cornerstone of the American justice of American system of justice is an independent judiciary and an independent bar willing to tackle unpopular cases.

01:19:41.260 However, daunting, the founding fathers knew this with an exclamation point, wrote Judge Leon in a 70 page, 73 page opinion, laced with more than two dozen exclamation points.

01:19:52.340 Accordingly, they took pains to enshrine in the Constitution certain rights that would serve as the foundation for that independence.

01:19:57.820 Little wonder that in the nearly 250 years since the Constitution was adopted, no executive order has been issued challenging these fundamental rights.

01:20:04.580 And then he ripped into Trump for doing that here.

01:20:07.140 That's how he sees it.

01:20:08.480 My pals over at National Review, like Andy McCarthy, agreed when he first started issuing these things, calling them bills of attainder, which you explain what that is.

01:20:18.040 But that, in my mind, tends to be like singling somebody out for criminal prosecution, like one individual here out to get.

01:20:25.300 This isn't exactly that.

01:20:26.700 But what do you make of the law, the war on law firms?

01:20:30.160 Well, do you know where this idea all came from?

01:20:32.620 It all came from radical Democratic lawyers who started a project called the Project 65.

01:20:39.060 It started during the Biden administration.

01:20:41.880 And its express goal was to punish law firms and lawyers who had defended Donald Trump.

01:20:47.660 So I wrote an op-ed piece saying, if you go after anybody because they defended Donald Trump, I will defend them pro bono.

01:20:55.680 So what do you think they did?

01:20:56.620 They filed a bar charge against me.

01:20:58.520 It cost me over $100,000 to defend myself against frivolous bar charges in Arizona and Massachusetts.

01:21:06.720 I won all my cases, of course.

01:21:08.180 But a bunch of lawyers who were asked to defend Donald Trump said, no, we don't want to be, quote, Dershowitz.

01:21:15.040 We don't want to have happened to us what happened to Dershowitz.

01:21:17.920 So it all started with Project 65, a group of left-wing lawyers.

01:21:22.380 And there was no objection from the bar.

01:21:24.780 Indeed, there was cooperation by the bar.

01:21:27.320 And so we're seeing a lot of hypocrisy.

01:21:29.620 I don't like what Trump was doing to law firms.

01:21:32.360 But it all started with liberal Democrats.

01:21:35.160 And nobody cared about it then.

01:21:37.200 So this is, again, the application of a double standard.

01:21:40.240 Don't stand up against Donald Trump if you were prepared to stand up, if you were prepared not to stand up, against the 65 Project.

01:21:50.960 The 65 Project, look it up.

01:21:52.920 It started all this.

01:21:54.380 And it expressly said it was going after lawyers who defended Donald Trump.

01:21:58.720 So let's understand where this started from.

01:22:02.100 And it's wrong no matter who does it.

01:22:04.080 We should not be weaponizing our legal system.

01:22:07.100 We should not be having warfare on either side.

01:22:10.080 But it's understandable when the left uses lawfare.

01:22:13.680 Going after Donald Trump in the New York case was the worst criminal case I've seen in 60 years of being involved in defending criminals.

01:22:22.200 I've never seen a case as bad as the New York case.

01:22:24.280 So lawfare started, started with the Democrats.

01:22:28.260 And now we're seeing tit-for-tat reprisals by the Republicans.

01:22:31.480 Both are wrong.

01:22:32.660 Yep, right on.

01:22:33.660 Okay, so on the boys and girls sports issue, Trump issued an executive order saying that needs to stop.

01:22:39.680 And clarifying that Title IX means what it says it means, which is it's a protection of girls in sports.

01:22:46.240 And they should have their own sports in which to compete.

01:22:49.340 And that does not include boys who say they, quote, identify as girls.

01:22:53.520 California has made an open vow to not follow that executive order.

01:22:58.120 They say they have a state's human rights law that requires that they recognize anybody's claim of gender identity when it comes to sport.

01:23:07.980 And this is coming to a head right now because there is a male runner named A.B. Hernandez who is running in the girls' track meets.

01:23:16.960 In particular, he's doing the long jump and the triple jump.

01:23:20.860 And he's crushing the other girls.

01:23:23.040 I mean, we reported on our morning show today, there was one meet in February in which his jump, his long jump, was eight feet longer than the next best competitor who was female.

01:23:34.340 He's definitely got male advantage.

01:23:35.980 And Trump issued Truth Social two days ago saying, you will comply or I will withdraw federal funds from you, the state of California.

01:23:47.660 And he added, I'm directing local authorities to not let this happen on this upcoming weekend where it's the state championships.

01:23:58.360 Now, generally, police power is with this with the state that the federal government wouldn't be directing local cops on what to do, what not to do.

01:24:05.760 But are either pieces of that threat enforceable in your view?

01:24:10.460 Well, let's just go back to Governor Wallace, who made the same kinds of statements back in 1954, 1955, and 1966.

01:24:19.000 He said, we have laws in the state of Mississippi, the state of Alabama, that prohibit black students from going to school with white students.

01:24:28.440 And we're going to enforce our laws.

01:24:30.380 And the federal government said, no, no, no, we have a constitutional, and in this case, Article 9, Article, you know, all these various titles coming in that are federal law.

01:24:44.460 And under the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution, the civil rights laws, federal civil rights laws, Trump state laws.

01:24:52.240 And so there is a legal basis for enforcing federal law over the states.

01:24:58.700 And as I say, it goes back to the 50s when the shoe was on the other foot.

01:25:03.520 Again, if the state of California, they would never do it.

01:25:06.040 But if the state were to say we're not going to permit black athletes from participating in basketball because they're too good and they, you know, or dominate the sport, we would never tolerate that for one second.

01:25:20.760 We would never tolerate, we need more diversity in the NBA.

01:25:24.780 No, that's meritocracy.

01:25:27.780 And, you know, when the Indiana Pacers beat the Knicks in a close game, that's because they were a better team.

01:25:36.000 And that's the rule.

01:25:41.280 That did not go over well in my household, and I think my sons would debate that with you.

01:25:44.920 But, yes, I see your point.

01:25:45.960 So you think he can get away with the threat, but can he withdraw federal funds?

01:25:52.360 Is that okay?

01:25:53.040 And what about, is this just empty words to the attempt to direct local authorities not to allow it this weekend at the state championships?

01:25:59.600 I think, ultimately, the Supreme Court is going to have to uphold the withholding of federal funds from states and other institutions that violate federal law.

01:26:10.580 It has nothing to do with a particular case.

01:26:12.880 It has to do with the dominance of the Supremacy Clause.

01:26:15.720 Without the Supremity Clause, you couldn't have the United States of America.

01:26:19.920 There would be the Confederate states.

01:26:21.900 The difference between the—

01:26:22.540 That where the federal law and the state laws conflict, the federal law will reign supreme.

01:26:26.160 Keep going.

01:26:27.200 Reign supreme.

01:26:27.680 Otherwise, we're back to the Articles of Confederacy.

01:26:30.600 And that didn't work.

01:26:32.560 And so some of us may not like the way it's being used.

01:26:36.880 And in my family, too, we fight like children about transgender athletes.

01:26:43.000 There are many points of view on that.

01:26:46.200 And it seems to me that President Trump ran on that theory.

01:26:51.040 And the majority of Americans support it.

01:26:53.660 And the law seems to support it.

01:26:55.320 So whatever you think of the policies, I think we're going to see ultimately the Supreme Court upholding most of these Trump initiatives, but demanding that they be done with due process, that they not have shortcuts around the constitutional requirements of due process of law.

01:27:15.560 I mean, to me, it's like, okay, we're dealing with a federal law here, Title IX.

01:27:19.180 But it's no different than that case that went up to the Supreme Court two years ago, 303 Creative, in which a woman in Colorado said, I don't want to create a website for an LGBTQ couple.

01:27:31.100 And the state of Colorado said, well, we have state human rights laws that require you to do it, that say you may not discriminate against anybody in the providing of a business service just because they're LGBTQ.

01:27:43.160 And the Supreme Court sided with her.

01:27:45.920 And there it was because of the Constitution, not a federal law, but each would be treated as trumping a conflicting state law.

01:27:51.640 And they said the First Amendment allows her to object to doing this, notwithstanding what the state human rights law seeks to compel her to do.

01:27:59.380 To me, this is the same thing.

01:28:00.580 You can't use your state human rights laws to violate Title IX, which is clear and has always been clear.

01:28:08.680 It's only Joe Biden who tried to make it unclear, but it was thrown out, his interpretation, by a federal district court in one of those nationwide injunctions that the left now loves, right?

01:28:17.780 And President Trump, once obtaining the presidency, has clarified its meaning back to the original as well.

01:28:22.580 So, all right, so do you have any thoughts on whether Trump can actually prevent it?

01:28:26.020 Because he's saying to local authorities, don't let this happen.

01:28:28.220 State championship is this weekend.

01:28:29.620 You've got a lot of girls who are about to not feel the glorious joy of winning because they're going to lose to this boy.

01:28:36.140 I mean, can he pull a George Wallace?

01:28:38.240 I mean, not a George Wallace, but can he pull, you know, a federal, like, troops in there or National Guard in there?

01:28:44.520 Or he has no command over local authorities to actually stop it, is my point.

01:28:48.480 He can't stop it, but he can punish it.

01:28:50.760 And that's what he's threatening to do.

01:28:52.960 I suspect that we're going to see, because of the politics of California, they're going to go through with it.

01:28:58.080 That gives the governor of California and others a domestic political victory.

01:29:03.320 And then we'll see Trump impose some punishment.

01:29:05.920 That gives him a national victory.

01:29:08.860 And we're going to see that.

01:29:10.240 And I think there's going to be a conflict throughout the country between various titles of the Civil Rights Act and what people think is the right thing.

01:29:21.260 I helped to draft the title of the Civil Rights Act that applied anti-discrimination provisions on college campuses to Jews.

01:29:30.100 And that was unpopular with some people.

01:29:33.700 But it's now the law.

01:29:35.580 You're incredible.

01:29:36.540 You've done everything.

01:29:37.640 You were involved in Title VI?

01:29:40.040 Yeah, very much so.

01:29:42.020 I always forget how old you are, Alan.

01:29:44.020 No offense.

01:29:44.620 I mean, I just mean, like, you've been around.

01:29:46.160 You've done so much.

01:29:46.980 I think you're 86 years old now and you're hashtag goals.

01:29:49.700 But that's incredible that you were part of that.

01:29:52.040 Yeah, yeah.

01:29:52.720 I was at the White House when it was announced, et cetera.

01:29:56.080 So, you know, I've been involved in a lot of these things right from the beginning.

01:29:59.920 But, you know, I am a meritocratic egalitarian.

01:30:03.160 I care deeply about that.

01:30:05.300 I am, you know, a constitutional libertarian.

01:30:09.280 I am a constructive contrarian.

01:30:11.320 Those are my three philosophical bases.

01:30:14.320 I haven't changed one bit in the 70 years since I entered college.

01:30:19.240 But the world around me has changed dramatically.

01:30:22.720 And it's interesting, you know, my book, The Preventive State, I started writing this 60

01:30:27.240 years ago.

01:30:27.780 I wrote my first article on prevention in the 1960s.

01:30:32.820 And now all of these things are coming out.

01:30:35.500 The COVID vaccines, the attempts to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear weapon.

01:30:42.340 All of these are preventive measures that we now have to create a jurisprudence around

01:30:47.080 because we live in such a cataclysmic world.

01:30:49.380 There are so many dangers that we face every single day, and we can prevent them because

01:30:54.840 we've developed AI methods of predicting and preventing.

01:30:58.740 But we can't do it without diminishing freedom a little bit.

01:31:03.420 And it was Benjamin Franklin who said those who would deny basic freedoms in order to achieve

01:31:08.560 a little bit of security deserve neither.

01:31:10.780 But in my book, The Preventive State, I try to argue that we can sometimes diminish a little

01:31:16.140 bit of inessential freedoms in order to get a great deal of prevention.

01:31:20.040 If we could have prevented 9-11, if Israel could have prevented October 7th by falsely

01:31:25.140 arresting a half a dozen people, that would be a trade-off that would be worth it.

01:31:29.860 And we have to figure out how to prevent these cataclysmic situations from occurring.

01:31:36.940 And we're seeing the hard left and the radicals and the terrorists and the people who call

01:31:41.880 for global intifada trying to introduce massive, massive violence into our society.

01:31:48.660 And we have to figure out ways of preventing it legally, lawfully.

01:31:51.660 Ways of fighting back.

01:31:52.920 That's really what you're saying.

01:31:53.840 Ways of fighting back.

01:31:54.880 All right.

01:31:55.080 I got to ask you two other quick questions before you have to go.

01:31:57.760 Um, this was in the news like a month ago, but we've talked to you many times before about

01:32:03.520 what I have said I fully believe were fake allegations against you by Jeffrey Epstein,

01:32:09.440 sex trafficking victim, Virginia Dufresne.

01:32:12.180 She looped your name into it.

01:32:13.980 And we, for the listening audience, we've gone through this many times with Alan about how this

01:32:16.960 was, your name was suggested to her by somebody else.

01:32:19.240 She, you weren't mentioned by her in her initial round of accusations.

01:32:22.220 And ultimately you sued her for defamation.

01:32:25.040 And that case went away with her saying, I may have made a mistake.

01:32:29.640 So Virginia Dufresne died at only 41 years old.

01:32:33.900 She's the mother of three kids.

01:32:35.620 She, she died by suicide, uh, according to the local authorities, though her father has

01:32:41.740 doubts about whether that's true.

01:32:43.740 He expressed them on Piers Morgan.

01:32:45.940 I think we have that.

01:32:47.220 Let's take a listen, uh, to her dad, whose name is Sky Roberts.

01:32:51.640 Sat-25.

01:32:54.680 Tell me about your reaction when you heard that she'd taken her life.

01:32:59.760 Well, first of all, I couldn't even believe it.

01:33:02.860 I, I, um, I mean, I started crying right away.

01:33:07.760 I'm still crying.

01:33:09.800 I can't believe that this is happening.

01:33:14.500 It just, it's impossible.

01:33:16.040 And then for them to say that she committed suicide, there's no way that she did.

01:33:20.780 Somebody got to her.

01:33:23.520 Somebody got to her.

01:33:24.700 Your thoughts on it, Alan?

01:33:26.380 Well, I feel terrible for her, for her family.

01:33:29.100 Uh, this is not, uh, the way anything like it should have ended.

01:33:32.880 She did falsely accuse me.

01:33:35.280 She admitted she may have, um, misidentified me for somebody else.

01:33:38.820 Um, I was hoping to get on with my life and let her get on with her life.

01:33:43.160 By the way, we still haven't seen all the Epstein files.

01:33:46.240 I want every single file out.

01:33:47.900 I want every video.

01:33:48.980 Yeah.

01:33:49.580 I want everything.

01:33:50.780 That is.

01:33:52.080 Well, because there are still people in there.

01:33:53.860 I know a couple of people who are named, and, um, I think there are people who don't want

01:33:59.000 their names to, uh, come out.

01:34:00.940 I want everything, uh, to come out because they would prove I never met the woman, never

01:34:04.860 heard of her, never had any improper contact with anybody, um, uh, since I met Jeffrey Epstein.

01:34:10.440 Uh, and, and so I want everything to come out and I don't know why they aren't bringing

01:34:15.300 it all, everything, every piece of paper, some of them being, uh, being withheld by judges.

01:34:20.260 Um, and by the way, some of them would show that some of the accusations are false, that

01:34:25.040 they would, uh, be negative toward the accusers.

01:34:27.880 Some would be negative toward the accused, but let the chip.

01:34:31.280 So you're just to be, just to be clear, you're saying, you know, of certain men who would

01:34:36.280 be caught up in the scandal and you believe what, because of influence or power that they

01:34:42.380 have power over even this DOJ in not releasing these files?

01:34:46.120 I don't know what the reasons are, but I know the names of people whose names have never

01:34:50.840 been released and, uh, there's no reason for them not to be, uh, released.

01:34:55.460 They may be innocent.

01:34:56.280 Uh, and I know information about the accusers that haven't been released, devastating information

01:35:01.920 about the accusers, the accusers themselves having been involved in, uh, in, in, in bringing

01:35:08.100 people to Jeffrey Epstein, uh, for improper purposes.

01:35:11.520 So I think all of this has to come out.

01:35:14.300 The truth has to prevail.

01:35:16.080 And, um, I've been pushing for this since the day I was falsely accused.

01:35:20.180 I wrote a piece.

01:35:20.740 No, I can vouch for that.

01:35:22.440 Today, saying I want the FBI to investigate me and let everything hang out there.

01:35:27.520 You came on my show in 2020 and said exactly that long before it was resolved.

01:35:31.280 And we had a full airing of everything.

01:35:34.040 I encourage people to go back and listen to that.

01:35:35.780 There's no question.

01:35:36.340 My mind Allen did absolutely nothing.

01:35:38.020 Um, okay.

01:35:39.220 I got to ask you about P Diddy all over the news.

01:35:41.760 This trial has been riveting to so many Americans.

01:35:45.060 And, um, I don't know.

01:35:46.420 I know you've been following a little on your show, but yesterday we had testimony from

01:35:50.080 his assistant from 2004 to 2012 Capricorn, uh, is her name.

01:35:55.380 And she talked about how Diddy shoved her 25 yards at one point with his hands and shoulders

01:36:00.640 leaning into it, that he kidnapped her.

01:36:02.800 He brought her over to Kid Cuddy's house.

01:36:04.720 He broke into Kid Cuddy's house.

01:36:06.400 He messed with Kid Cuddy's house.

01:36:08.340 He, uh, said he was going to kill Kid Cuddy, though Kid Cuddy wasn't home.

01:36:11.680 Kid Cuddy drove by.

01:36:12.720 They then chased Kid Cuddy.

01:36:14.320 But it came out at the end of the day that notwithstanding the fact that she also claims

01:36:17.940 he's subjected to her a five-day lie detector test because he suspected her was stealing

01:36:21.480 from him.

01:36:22.520 She had multiple emails to him after the fact saying, I'd sure love to come back and work

01:36:26.840 for you.

01:36:27.660 I, I did ever tell you I had a massive crush on you, you know?

01:36:31.680 And so the defense was obviously trying to show, geez, for all these horrific things

01:36:35.180 he allegedly did to you and around you, you still really wanted to work for him quite badly.

01:36:39.880 How do you think it's going for the prosecution?

01:36:42.200 Well, it's going very well at the trial, but it will be reversed on appeal for the same

01:36:46.720 reason the Harvey Weinstein case was reversed.

01:36:49.400 Uh, the jury shouldn't be seeing all this material because he's not charged with any

01:36:53.980 of it.

01:36:54.640 If this were a state case in which he was charged with domestic abuse, with kicking his

01:36:59.660 wife or girl-

01:37:00.220 That's part of the Rico Foundation, right?

01:37:01.640 It's like these underlying predicate criminal acts.

01:37:04.360 Trafficking and all of these things undercut that.

01:37:06.580 It makes it sound like he had terrible relationships with the people close to him rather than trafficking

01:37:12.080 or doing anything involving Rico.

01:37:13.860 So I think, uh, from a legal point of view, the state is undercutting its own case, but

01:37:18.860 from a jury point of view, my God, what could be better than showing them a videotape of

01:37:23.060 him being a terrible, terrible person, but he's not on trial for being a terrible person.

01:37:27.660 He's on trial for specific violations of specific federal laws, and they will be reversed on appeal.

01:37:34.140 Alan Dush was, in addition to his many other talents, uh, appeals are his specialty.

01:37:39.380 And I don't, I don't know if you've ever even lost one.

01:37:41.360 I mean, what, what percentage have you won?

01:37:42.660 What percentage have you lost Alan Dershowitz on appeal?

01:37:44.440 I can't get into percentages, but I've won a very, very large percentage.

01:37:47.940 Remember appeals, usually you win only 5%.

01:37:50.280 So my record has been very good, which I've been very successful.

01:37:54.480 Thank, thank God for that.

01:37:56.380 And, uh, I'm going to continue at 86 to argue, uh, the right appeals for the right people.

01:38:02.060 I do most of them pro bono and, uh, uh, I don't know how you do it.

01:38:06.880 How do we, how do we wind up like Alan Dershowitz at 86 as mentally sharp as ever?

01:38:12.120 How do we do it?

01:38:13.460 Marry the right woman.

01:38:15.080 That's the key.

01:38:16.060 Marry the right person.

01:38:17.520 That's my wife keeps me going.

01:38:19.440 I couldn't have done the show today without the help of my wife.

01:38:22.400 So, uh, Oh God bless her success.

01:38:26.760 Okay.

01:38:27.200 I like it.

01:38:27.780 I check in my case, check.

01:38:29.500 I've got that spouse.

01:38:30.520 So I'm, I'm happy to hear this.

01:38:31.640 I hope you're right.

01:38:32.420 Thank you.

01:38:33.060 And all the best with the book.

01:38:34.600 It's called the preventive state, the challenge of preventing serious harms while preserving

01:38:40.280 essential liberties.

01:38:41.260 And as with so many of Alan's books, boy, he really knows when to drop them.

01:38:44.560 I mean, that's, that's really one of the main things we're debating right now in our

01:38:48.740 society under Trump and really under Biden as well.

01:38:52.040 So check it out.

01:38:53.220 If you want to be informed tomorrow, Glenn Greenwald is here right here in studio.

01:38:57.560 We've never had him in studio.

01:38:59.000 That'll be fun.

01:39:00.080 See you then.

01:39:04.100 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show.

01:39:06.400 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:39:14.560 Since president Trump's election, the eyes of the nation have been on Mar-a-Lago and the

01:39:26.740 free state of Florida.

01:39:28.400 It's a thriving, booming place.

01:39:30.300 South Florida is a special place too, because of its amazing water.

01:39:33.840 It's so blue and clean and gorgeous.

01:39:37.460 They boat, they swim, they fish, they drink today.

01:39:40.820 That clean water.

01:39:41.740 Well, sadly it's endangered by toxic algae.

01:39:45.200 Did you know that you may have heard of red tide or blue green algae?

01:39:50.460 Well, it can be dangerous and it can be gross.

01:39:53.320 In his first term, president Trump signed a law to solve this problem with a new reservoir

01:39:58.100 south of Lake Okeechobee to keep clean, fresh water flowing constantly to South Florida.

01:40:04.380 President Trump said after years of rebuilding other nations, we're finally rebuilding our own.

01:40:08.540 Washington can finish the job in next year's budget and keep President Trump's promise.

01:40:14.500 The Everglades Foundation, our advertiser, says that would be very good for Florida and good for

01:40:20.760 the Everglades.

01:40:21.700 Learn more about President Trump's Everglades support project at evergladesfoundation.org.

01:40:27.160 Thank you, sir.

01:40:32.200 I'm going to send you some details.

01:40:40.880 Bye.

01:40:41.500 Bye.

01:40:45.840 Bye.

01:40:46.340 Bye.

01:40:48.020 Bye.

01:40:49.100 Bye.

01:40:51.440 Bye.

01:40:52.620 Bye.

01:40:54.960 Bye.

The Megyn Kelly Show - May 28, 2025

George Floyd Riots Damage Persists, DEI Jobs Disappearing, and Where are Epstein Files, with Heather Mac Donald and Alan Dershowitz ｜ Ep. 1082

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