The Megyn Kelly Show - Georgia Goes Blue, with Hugh Hewitt and Dave Briggs ｜ Ep. 47

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00:00:30.600 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show,

00:00:32.560 your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:36.840 Today on the show, Georgia goes blue.

00:00:39.500 What?

00:00:40.080 What does this mean for America?

00:00:42.020 And what happens today when Congress

00:00:44.020 meets to certify the 2020 presidential election?

00:00:47.400 We'll have Dave Briggs, my old pal from Fox,

00:00:49.560 and Hugh Hewitt on the program.

00:00:56.420 Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:57.860 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:59.280 Today, disaster for the Republicans in Georgia.

00:01:03.000 It certainly looks like they have lost not one, but both of the Senate seat runoffs that

00:01:08.460 we were watching in that state.

00:01:10.200 And who have they elected to the United States Senate?

00:01:13.080 Well, in one case, absolutely a radical on the left.

00:01:15.720 And in another, you know, pretty open socialist.

00:01:19.540 So what does that mean for the U.S. Senate and where we're going as a country?

00:01:23.240 We're going to get into all of it in just one minute.

00:01:25.440 And what does it mean for Joe Biden's agenda on immigration, on the environment, on taxes,

00:01:30.700 on health care?

00:01:32.500 Republicans aren't going to like what they're going to get.

00:01:34.320 Not at all.

00:01:34.980 But was that the point where the Trump base members trying to send a message to the GOP

00:01:40.860 that you don't listen to us, the whole ship goes down and, you know, then the cleanup

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00:01:47.100 So we'll talk about it in one second.

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00:03:11.500 Joining me now to keep things off today is my old pal Dave Briggs.

00:03:19.080 We worked together for years at Fox News.

00:03:21.080 He was also at NBC Sports and CNN, but Fox News was his best stint.

00:03:26.960 And he's going to help us understand what happened in Georgia last night.

00:03:31.680 Dave, it's so good to have you here.

00:03:33.460 Great to be here.

00:03:34.240 It was indeed my best stint.

00:03:36.000 I'd agree with you there, Megan.

00:03:37.180 Great to have you.

00:03:37.800 Of course.

00:03:37.960 You're doing a great job with the podcast.

00:03:39.900 We don't want to work at NBC and we don't want to work at CNN.

00:03:42.760 So, uh, now it's nice to be on our own too, but, uh, the Fox News years were good ones.

00:03:47.360 Okay.

00:03:48.120 Um, Georgia.

00:03:50.080 It, I have to tell you, so I was frustrated last night cause our cable wasn't working.

00:03:54.420 And, uh, so I'm trying to get everything online and my team sending me information and I'm,

00:03:58.420 I'm seeing the results coming.

00:03:59.900 I wasn't totally stunned about Kelly Loeffler, but I am stunned that Ossoff appears to have

00:04:05.880 pulled this out, uh, given, given how handily he was beaten back in November.

00:04:11.580 Um, I don't know.

00:04:12.820 You tell me where do things stand today?

00:04:15.020 Are both seats officially gone?

00:04:16.420 Well, frankly, I wasn't stunned either about Kelly Loeffler, uh, having not been born in

00:04:22.020 Georgia perception that she bought the seat also running against a very popular, uh, Baptist,

00:04:29.640 you know, pastor of the church where MLK, uh, Martin Luther King was once the pastor, Ebenezer

00:04:36.380 Baptist.

00:04:36.740 So a lot of factors going against Kelly Loeffler.

00:04:40.020 I certainly thought David Perdue would hang on the cousin of a former Georgia governor, a

00:04:45.960 very popular U S Senator, but for one, Raphael Warnock, we know that is over.

00:04:52.040 Kelly Loeffler has conceded there.

00:04:54.200 Warnock is the winner by looks like 53,000 votes.

00:04:59.180 So a pretty convincing margin there.

00:05:01.980 John Ossoff also looks likely to cruise to victory.

00:05:05.800 Um, 16,000 votes is the margin this morning.

00:05:09.700 The, the largely outstanding votes look like they lean democratic.

00:05:14.260 So it would be a last second miracle to see John Ossoff lose, to see David Perdue still

00:05:21.760 win.

00:05:22.160 It looks like that thing is over.

00:05:24.100 And Ossoff, by the way, has claimed victory.

00:05:26.820 So it looks like you'll have your first black Georgia Senator and your first Jewish Georgia

00:05:33.320 Senator as well.

00:05:34.480 But most importantly, 50, 50 in the U S Senate with Kamala Harris, the vice president, uh,

00:05:42.080 providing that tie-breaking vote.

00:05:44.260 So this is a stunner, uh, that both seats go blue, but look, a lot of people in Georgia,

00:05:51.820 Georgia, right?

00:05:53.320 I mean, we thought maybe it was going purple.

00:05:55.040 It looks blue today.

00:05:56.860 Yeah, you know, and, and talking with some friends down in Georgia this morning, as well

00:06:01.700 as some Republicans across the country, a lot of blame being cast at the feet of president

00:06:06.600 Trump.

00:06:07.520 Voter suppression has long been a story there in the state of Georgia.

00:06:11.240 Uh, and you heard about it with the governor's race with governor Kemp, but this time it's,

00:06:16.160 it's president Trump who looks to have suppressed the Republican vote.

00:06:21.500 Eric Erickson, who, you know, a good friend of ours hosts a radio show in Georgia.

00:06:26.400 I talked to him earlier this morning.

00:06:28.660 He says, don't give too much credit to Stacey Abrams this morning.

00:06:33.140 First, you need to blame president Trump.

00:06:35.240 He spent the last five weeks talking about voting irregularities, voter fraud.

00:06:40.880 He called the Georgia elections illegitimate and illegal.

00:06:45.800 They wasted five weeks of potential messaging.

00:06:49.780 The president could have claimed his own victory for driving out 74 million votes, a record for

00:06:56.600 the Republican party said that he grew the tent and focused on divided government in blocking

00:07:03.720 that Schumer Pelosi agenda.

00:07:05.860 He didn't do it.

00:07:07.960 I don't know though.

00:07:08.520 Let me, let me challenge you on that.

00:07:09.760 First of all, number one, I don't think Kelly Loeffler has conceded yet.

00:07:12.640 She's still not conceding though.

00:07:14.220 It appears her goose is cooked.

00:07:15.620 But second of all, so Trump was divided from the lawyers like Lin Wood, who, you know,

00:07:23.120 at that one rally was like, don't vote, screw this party, screw everything.

00:07:27.120 George is effed up.

00:07:28.660 Don't go out there.

00:07:29.740 And the White House was pretty quick to say he doesn't speak for us.

00:07:34.040 And by the way, he's a lifeline, a lifetime Democratic voter.

00:07:38.000 The White House came out and said that the campaign and and then Trump went down there

00:07:41.700 and campaigned repeatedly for the two Republicans.

00:07:44.400 So I realize Trump's been challenging the electoral results.

00:07:48.160 But to say, you know, he was out there suppressing voter turnout, I think I think he would he would

00:07:53.120 disagree.

00:07:53.700 Well, an Atlanta Journal-Constitution poll just over a week ago showed that 55 percent of

00:08:01.560 those who label themselves very conservative were considering not voting in this runoff election

00:08:08.720 because they believe the elections to be illegitimate and fraudulent.

00:08:14.400 Where did they get that accusation?

00:08:16.460 From the Twitter feed and from the mouth of the president.

00:08:20.460 I don't know how you can challenge the fact that the president, the first thing he said

00:08:25.600 at that rally Monday night in Georgia was talking about the fraudulent elections.

00:08:31.120 It was well, that's that's that's true.

00:08:33.380 I mean, so so that's the thing is that, first of all, he introduced Kelly Loeffler, he called

00:08:37.640 her Karen, which that's that's not good. 0.93

00:08:40.720 But he there's no question he should have spent more time talking, maybe not about Loeffler

00:08:46.340 and Perdue, who weren't exactly inspirational candidates, but talking about their opponents,

00:08:52.520 talking about their opponents, how far left they are, the controversial things that Warnock

00:08:57.460 has said about America, about the military, about cops, about about whites, how this is

00:09:04.880 a white supremacist country like a no time spent on that.

00:09:08.820 It was all spent on grievance, which is sort of Trump's trademark, you know, and he absolutely

00:09:13.560 could have been more helpful to these Republicans if he'd been focused a bit more on the flaws

00:09:18.620 in their Democratic challengers in a state like Georgia.

00:09:23.780 But wait, let me ask you this, Dave, I read the GOP turnout was actually strong.

00:09:29.600 It was strong in Georgia.

00:09:30.840 It just happened to not be quite as strong as the Democrats.

00:09:35.940 Right.

00:09:36.240 The turnout was outstanding.

00:09:37.780 And in fact, Cherokee County, the largely Republican county there at last check, it looked

00:09:44.760 like they might outperform the November election, which is staggering.

00:09:50.560 But as we saw in the presidential election, right, Joe Biden got 81 million votes, 74 million

00:09:57.760 for Trump was a record, but he's even bigger than he is a Republican turnout artist.

00:10:03.700 He turns out Democratic votes like nothing we have ever seen before, in particular, the

00:10:10.860 African-American turnout.

00:10:12.320 Raphael Warnock outperformed the black turnout that Joe Biden saw in November.

00:10:18.640 And look, a lot of this credit does go to Stacey Abrams.

00:10:22.100 She has built a machine there, voter registration and voter turnout.

00:10:26.780 But in the end, I think Republicans will sit there and have to scratch their heads and wonder

00:10:31.780 what would have happened if President Trump would have taken this five weeks to simply focus

00:10:37.860 on, yes, to your point, about the radical beliefs and policies of these two candidates,

00:10:44.000 but also just providing a check on Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and the radical agenda that

00:10:50.640 they want to get through.

00:10:52.020 He did not do that.

00:10:53.860 It was not about policy.

00:10:55.440 It was not about party for the president.

00:10:57.200 It was about grievances.

00:10:58.680 It was about loyalty.

00:11:00.320 And that's what it always has been about.

00:11:02.740 Not about party for Trump, but about Trumpism.

00:11:06.100 Yeah, I know.

00:11:08.140 And sometimes it's worked for him and sometimes it hasn't.

00:11:11.500 And sometimes it's worked for America and sometimes it hasn't.

00:11:14.560 And I mean, I'm a big fan of divided government just in general.

00:11:19.280 And I don't like one party rule.

00:11:22.940 I don't.

00:11:23.140 And I think most Americans don't like one party rule.

00:11:25.340 And I think we'll have one party rule until two years from now.

00:11:30.060 And it's going to flip back.

00:11:31.040 And by the way, this Warnock seat is only a two year seat.

00:11:34.100 The only person who won a six year seat, as it appears now, at least, is Ossoff, right?

00:11:39.060 Because it was it was sort of a temporarily held seat.

00:11:42.160 So in two years, this one seat could flip back.

00:11:45.660 And while we don't have divided government the way you and I would like to see it, and

00:11:49.980 I know a lot of your listeners, what we do have is truly a divided Senate, because even

00:11:54.520 if this seat goes to Ossoff, which it looks like it will, we're still looking at 50-50 with

00:11:59.080 Kamala Harris providing that tiebreaking vote.

00:12:02.000 But they can't cram through massive legislation unless they get rid of the filibuster, which 0.63

00:12:09.260 I, for one, will go on record as saying, I do not think that will happen.

00:12:13.220 They need every vote on the Democratic side.

00:12:16.200 And I just don't think Joe Manchin, maybe two or three others would go along with that

00:12:21.940 ploy.

00:12:22.400 So what are they going to get through?

00:12:23.660 They're going to get through their judges.

00:12:25.000 They're going to get through their cabinet.

00:12:26.720 They're going to get through maybe some tweaks to strengthen Obamacare.

00:12:30.040 Certainly those $2,000 stimulus checks for COVID relief, which, again, oddly, the president

00:12:36.920 introduced that debate and forced Loeffler and Perdue to support those $2,000 checks.

00:12:42.900 He forced that as an issue.

00:12:44.900 But a lot of people panicked about taxes going up and massive pieces of legislation on the

00:12:51.640 environment.

00:12:52.380 That doesn't look likely, again, unless they get rid of the filibuster.

00:12:56.820 And I don't know about you, Megan.

00:12:57.680 I don't see that happening.

00:12:59.760 I think they are going to roll back the Trump tax cuts.

00:13:02.260 And I think we're looking at amnesty for 11 million undocumented immigrants in this

00:13:07.280 country.

00:13:07.640 I do.

00:13:08.000 I don't think those are unrealistic things to expect under a united Democratic government

00:13:13.820 with Joe Biden at the head.

00:13:15.180 And I think the squad just got a lot more powerful last night.

00:13:19.160 You listen to these two senators in Georgia.

00:13:21.580 They sound like the squad.

00:13:22.480 They don't sound like Joe Biden Democrats.

00:13:24.960 And, you know, now now there's nothing to stop him.

00:13:27.820 There's no reason for Joe Biden has no one to blame for for moderating anything.

00:13:32.100 You know, he can just say he can't say, look, I've got to work with the Republican Senate.

00:13:35.960 Now now it's Dems in control or so.

00:13:39.140 I got to ask you another question because there's another big story happening today, and that

00:13:42.860 is Congress is going to meet to confirm Joe Biden as president elect.

00:13:48.180 So walk us through that process and what's expected to happen this afternoon.

00:13:53.360 This is a sad day in American history that we're about to see on the Senate floor.

00:14:00.560 It's supposed to be a mere formality.

00:14:03.900 Mike Pence's role is supposed to be largely ceremonial, but the president has forced him

00:14:09.620 into a very uncomfortable position where you have Republicans in both the House and the

00:14:16.740 Senate objecting to the Electoral College and attempting to overturn the November results.

00:14:22.480 Again, this is a mere formality in U.S. history where we simply count the votes and read

00:14:29.080 them aloud.

00:14:29.760 But President Trump tweeting this morning, a short time ago, states want to correct their

00:14:35.400 votes, which they now know were based on irregularities and fraud, plus corrupt process never received

00:14:42.220 legislative approval.

00:14:43.800 And here's the kicker.

00:14:44.920 All Mike Pence has to do is send them back to the states and we win.

00:14:50.680 Do it, Mike.

00:14:52.080 This is a time for extreme courage.

00:14:55.320 It is not, of course.

00:14:56.920 The vice president, Mike Pence, knows his duty is to the Constitution.

00:15:01.840 And as I said before, his duty is largely ceremonial in this capacity.

00:15:07.000 He does not have the role to overturn this election.

00:15:12.000 That is not his.

00:15:13.140 What will happen, you will have again.

00:15:15.880 Dozens, perhaps more than 100, object in the House.

00:15:19.200 And the key is 13 U.S. senators.

00:15:23.400 Senators objecting to the Electoral College.

00:15:26.740 I think this is the real Apprentice reboot, not on NBC, but on the GOP, attempting to cater

00:15:34.200 to the president's dangerous delusions that he won this election in a landslide.

00:15:40.220 He did not.

00:15:41.980 Ultimately, this not only is an attack on the Constitution, but it's a waste of all of our

00:15:48.020 time.

00:15:48.520 They'll force a vote.

00:15:49.880 They'll force a debate.

00:15:51.940 But they cannot and will not change anything as related to the November election.

00:15:59.080 And the backdrop, that's true, that's true.

00:16:01.340 Anybody who tells you that we're going to get a different result other than Joe Biden

00:16:05.080 becomes, you know, his victory is certified, is lying to you.

00:16:08.660 It's not going to happen.

00:16:09.800 This is largely performative today.

00:16:12.660 But I will say, you know, to me, like, I don't like what's happening.

00:16:18.000 It doesn't get us anywhere and it just prolongs this division and so on.

00:16:22.560 But, you know, the Democrats have objected.

00:16:25.640 Like, Maxine Waters got up there after Bush won in 2000 and she did the same thing.

00:16:32.180 And by the way, she didn't even have a senator, you know, to back her up. 0.93

00:16:34.960 She's from D.C.

00:16:36.100 She didn't have one.

00:16:37.060 She's like, I don't care.

00:16:37.860 And I'll never forget because Gore, Vice President Gore, who was the one who lost that

00:16:43.600 presidential election to Bush after the Supreme Court's ruling, got up there and said, you

00:16:47.580 may not care, but the rules care, madam. 0.97

00:16:49.760 And he stood up for the rule of law.

00:16:51.740 Anyway, what's going to happen today?

00:16:54.000 You're right.

00:16:54.660 Vice President Pence is supposed to just be a reader.

00:16:58.320 He's supposed to be a reader of each state's vote.

00:17:02.480 He's not really supposed to interfere.

00:17:04.320 And, you know, what's going to be interesting to me is he the New York Times reported that

00:17:10.240 he is not going to interfere.

00:17:11.740 And then Trump sent out a tweet yesterday saying that the New York Times reporting was wrong.

00:17:16.200 But Trump but Pence hasn't said anything.

00:17:18.860 So we're going to find out today who's telling the truth.

00:17:21.800 Loyalty is a one way street for the president.

00:17:24.380 And that cost of that loyalty will be on display for the country for Mike Pence, who has been

00:17:29.220 blindly loyal to the president for four years in every way, shape or form.

00:17:35.060 And for the president to turn on him for doing his job, for upholding his oath to the

00:17:40.020 Constitution is a sad one.

00:17:41.440 But what could get worse is 30,000 Trump supporters marching in D.C. today.

00:17:46.020 And there is a lot of traffic online about potential violence.

00:17:50.620 And Trump will address those supporters marching in D.C. today.

00:17:56.280 So it could be a very dark day in this nation's history.

00:17:59.380 But Liz Cheney tweeting this morning, just a reminder, Congress has no authority to overturn 1.00

00:18:04.740 elections by objecting to electors.

00:18:07.760 Doing so steals power from the states and violates the Constitution.

00:18:12.360 The conservative movement is about states' rights, not to mention fiscal discipline, which

00:18:17.400 both seem out the door right now.

00:18:20.080 Oh, yeah, there's there's no question if this if the shoe are on the other foot and a

00:18:22.880 Democrat were trying this, the Republicans would be losing their minds, losing their

00:18:27.420 minds.

00:18:28.160 And if you're Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley, you don't want to be cast in the same boat as

00:18:32.480 Maxine Waters that you just you don't want to be compared to her.

00:18:36.380 You are potential candidates in 24 and constitutional attorneys.

00:18:41.800 All right.

00:18:42.320 Can I ask you one other question?

00:18:43.520 Because you mentioned Kamala Harris, who will become, you know, basically the deciding vote

00:18:48.000 in the Senate as vice president.

00:18:49.360 And there was news about her yesterday that I just I mean, I want to say I couldn't believe

00:18:54.360 it, but I could believe it.

00:18:55.860 And it's just to me, it somehow felt like the hilarious, hilarious Baldwin story where

00:19:00.580 somebody is pretending some nonsense about their past because they think it makes them

00:19:04.840 sound good.

00:19:05.500 And for Kamala Harris, it was this ridiculous story about her in the stroller at civil rights 0.96

00:19:15.220 marches.

00:19:16.720 Let me just let the sound play.

00:19:18.920 I'll let her tell the story and then we'll talk about what happened.

00:19:21.280 Well, I was in a stroller and I was in a stroller and so I was out there.

00:19:27.740 And in fact, my mother used to have a very funny story about I was fussing and and she

00:19:33.240 said, Kamala, what do you want?

00:19:34.600 And I said, and this is how she would say it.

00:19:37.040 And she said, Kamala, what do you want?

00:19:39.180 And I said, tweet him.

00:19:43.560 Oh, come on. 0.87

00:19:45.600 It was a much cuter story when she would tell it.

00:19:48.540 But that's the story she told.

00:19:52.540 OMG.

00:19:53.740 OK, so I'm sorry, but the maniacal laughter is weird.

00:19:58.260 I mean, it's just it's it's just it's odd.

00:20:01.280 I don't know where it comes from, but that story was made up.

00:20:05.820 It was either made up by Kamala or, you know, if you want to be really charitable to her,

00:20:10.920 it was made up by her mother.

00:20:12.460 And she has just chosen to believe it because it was cribbed.

00:20:15.640 It was cribbed from Martin Luther King, who told that story years ago.

00:20:21.080 And she's decided to adopt it as her own.

00:20:24.260 And it isn't true.

00:20:25.340 And the media is like, yawn, we don't care.

00:20:28.060 You know, and she's taking a page out of Joe Biden's book. 0.99

00:20:31.660 I mean, that's that's how his political career began with plagiarism accusations all over the

00:20:37.340 all over the map.

00:20:38.200 But, yeah, that's from a 1965 interview with Playboy magazine, similar to what MLK told

00:20:45.300 Playboy magazine in 1965.

00:20:46.960 And I think it strikes, too.

00:20:48.900 We forget that Kamala Harris was a quick out in the primary, largely because what you see

00:20:55.720 there, she's inauthentic.

00:20:58.080 She's canned.

00:20:59.820 She never responded well in the moment, never debated well.

00:21:03.860 And that's why I don't think ultimately she's much of a threat in 2024.

00:21:08.640 I don't think she'll get the nomination.

00:21:10.560 I don't think Joe Biden runs for another term.

00:21:12.560 But that inauthenticity, I think, cost her in the primary and will cost her again.

00:21:17.740 She never knows who she wants to be, similar to what we saw with Hillary Clinton. 1.00

00:21:22.100 So if she is the nominee, I think Republicans can feel good about their chances of taking

00:21:27.220 back the White House in 24.

00:21:28.500 So a guy on Twitter who I follow tweeted out yesterday since she cribbed this from MLK.

00:21:36.320 And who can forget Kamala's famous I have a Dweem speech?

00:21:41.440 Hashtag freedom.

00:21:42.520 Sometimes Twitter is a force for good.

00:21:49.000 Well, the trending hashtag this morning, unfortunately, for Republicans, you mentioned Twitter is hashtag

00:21:55.180 by Mitch.

00:21:56.740 That is the top trending story on Twitter, because it looks like Mitch McConnell is the Senate minority

00:22:04.260 leader, Chuck Schumer, majority leader moving forward.

00:22:08.680 Wow.

00:22:09.660 Dave Briggs.

00:22:10.800 Thank you for the overview, my friend.

00:22:13.200 Great to speak with you.

00:22:14.580 Great to be here.

00:22:15.280 Thanks, Megan.

00:22:17.020 Oh, wow.

00:22:18.260 Think about that.

00:22:19.260 Chuck Schumer in charge in the Senate.

00:22:22.780 Nancy Pelosi in charge in the House.

00:22:25.040 And Joe Biden at the top with the squad nipping on his ears.

00:22:31.920 Brace yourselves, America.

00:22:33.420 We're going we're going on a journey.

00:22:35.680 And you know what?

00:22:36.460 Can I just say just for a minute?

00:22:37.600 Um, if you're a Republican or you're more of a centrist like I am, I, you know, I said

00:22:43.020 I'm center right.

00:22:43.980 I don't see this as all bad because.

00:22:47.320 People are going to be fired up.

00:22:49.220 They're going to be motivated now.

00:22:50.920 You know, if it were divided government and Joe Biden was moderating his behavior, um, I

00:22:57.020 don't know, I think maybe there would be less controversy or there's going to be controversy

00:23:00.300 coming up and people are going to get fired up.

00:23:03.060 I mean, don't forget what happened with the Tea Party in 2010.

00:23:05.300 And, uh, you know, electing, um, switching the balance of power in 2010 and people marching

00:23:12.340 in the streets and those town halls that we all witnessed.

00:23:15.400 America was angry about the far left agenda being shoved down our throats without majority

00:23:20.380 support in Obamacare.

00:23:22.280 And, um, I, I predict you're going to see something like that if, if this government

00:23:26.860 tries to swing us too far left.

00:23:28.660 I really do.

00:23:29.400 And, uh, you know, as I, as I point out at best, one of those Georgia Senate seats,

00:23:33.960 the one held by Warnock last for two years, and then there's another election there.

00:23:38.220 So, okay.

00:23:39.020 We're going to get to Hugh Hewitt to talk about all this in one second, but first I want

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00:25:31.300 Joining me now, Hugh Hewitt, host of the Hugh Hewitt show.

00:25:34.480 Hugh, it's great to have you.

00:25:35.800 And, uh, you know, let's just start with, it looks like the Republicans lost both seats.

00:25:41.060 What's your reaction?

00:25:42.440 Let's get to why in one second, but your reaction to that reality.

00:25:46.240 Uh, it is difficult to process.

00:25:48.120 I went to bed last night cause I had to get up at four 30 to prepare for my show, which

00:25:52.080 is done now.

00:25:53.100 And I thought maybe there was a chance that David Perdue could hold on and that I might

00:25:58.040 wake up to good news, but I didn't.

00:25:59.800 I woke up to what is in effect, uh, a certain Ossoff win.

00:26:03.880 I don't believe the military ballots or the outstanding ballots can close a 14,000 vote gap,

00:26:08.760 which is somewhere where it is and recounts, et cetera.

00:26:12.780 It might need to recount, but it's a, it's a democratic Senate, a democratic house and

00:26:16.820 a Joe Biden presidency.

00:26:18.280 And so we've been here before 2009.

00:26:21.100 We've been here before in January of, of, uh, 1993.

00:26:25.400 And we've been here before in January of 1997.

00:26:28.280 I mean, 19, yeah, 1977.

00:26:31.300 It's not the end of the world.

00:26:32.880 It's also not particularly pleasant.

00:26:35.240 I mean, I think forward to what we're looking at in terms of agenda, you know, foreign policy,

00:26:42.140 immigration, uh, environmental, uh, regulations, taxes, healthcare.

00:26:48.400 And I, I worry, I worry it's going to go far left.

00:26:53.700 It's not going to be center left.

00:26:54.900 It's going to go far left.

00:26:56.160 Do you think that's realistic?

00:26:57.660 Uh, it's going to go left.

00:26:59.300 I think Joe Manchin and Angus King and Jack Reed, uh, provide us some security blankets in

00:27:07.840 the Senate.

00:27:08.260 And I believe that the narrowness of the democratic majority in the house, whether it ends up being

00:27:13.080 six to 10 votes, it's still kind of depends upon what happens in New York 22 and the Iowa

00:27:19.360 race, but they are sufficiently narrow in the house that people will be looking over

00:27:24.260 their shoulder at crazy stuff and saying, no, thank you, Nancy.

00:27:28.420 And in the Senate, I actually believe Angus King is a great patriot.

00:27:31.980 He's an independent.

00:27:33.180 He's a Mainer. 0.55

00:27:33.820 And, uh, he was co-chair with Mike Gallagher on the cyber solarium, uh, a key defense issue.

00:27:40.640 He's on, uh, armed services, Jack Reed, he's a veteran, knows armed services.

00:27:46.200 And I, I think, uh, Chris, uh, uh, Coons is also kind of a sane person. 0.99

00:27:51.940 So I do expect taxes to skyrocket.

00:27:55.060 Uh, I think the corporate tax rate will go back to 28, maybe even 32%.

00:27:58.940 I expect the tax breaks that president Trump's reform extended to small businesses will be

00:28:04.560 erased.

00:28:05.200 I expect immigration to be rather quickly attached to a reconciliation.

00:28:09.800 And Green New Deal, perhaps a carbon tax, uh, there will be some definite shifts, but

00:28:15.920 it's not the disaster that was expected in November.

00:28:19.000 Had this result occurred, Megan, on November the 2nd, we still, we being Republicans, I

00:28:26.280 don't want to put you in my camp.

00:28:27.440 I'm outwardly and always have been a Republican.

00:28:30.460 We Republicans would be still relatively happy with the result of November because it wasn't

00:28:36.760 a blue wave and it's still not a blue wave.

00:28:38.720 It's a 50, 50 country with the reins and the democratic hands on a few issues that will

00:28:44.340 decide 2022.

00:28:47.260 How on earth did the Republicans lose this?

00:28:50.500 Well, great question.

00:28:51.360 I think two things, uh, Governor Kemp, one of the rules I have in life is don't make, uh,

00:28:57.920 easy decisions hard.

00:28:59.040 And he had an easy decision when, uh, Johnny Isakson had to retire.

00:29:03.860 He could have named Doug Collins and it would have been an easy walk to victory in the general.

00:29:09.740 Instead, he listened only to himself and the consultants who surrounded him and Kelly Loeffler

00:29:14.980 who were intent on running a so-called woman for the suburbs. 0.95

00:29:19.940 Well, she's a billionaire and she's never run for anything.

00:29:22.940 And she was a disaster as a candidate. 1.00

00:29:24.640 No, she's not relatable to anyone.

00:29:26.920 So that's on Kemp.

00:29:28.340 The last two months are on the president because, um, you cannot have a battle between the president

00:29:34.300 and the governor and not turn off at least five to 10%.

00:29:38.600 Democrats turned out, Republicans didn't turn out in the numbers that they needed.

00:29:43.640 It's on both of their doorsteps.

00:29:45.960 What do you make of Lin Wood, you know, in that rally that we saw and, uh, you know,

00:29:51.520 one of the stop the steal rallies where he got up there and said, don't vote.

00:29:55.480 And, you know, the white house was quick to distance itself from him, but it was very well 0.95

00:29:59.420 publicized, of course, because the media loved that message.

00:30:03.580 Um, and there are a lot of ticked off Republicans in Georgia who are Trump voters who may have

00:30:10.400 seen it as a middle finger to the party, to the system, to just stay at home.

00:30:17.460 Uh, I don't think Lin Wood helped.

00:30:19.240 I also don't think he was particularly significant or Powell, the whole crack and nonsense.

00:30:24.360 Uh, the longer it went on, the, the less attached to the reality of the political situation it

00:30:31.280 became, and it became something of a joke.

00:30:33.680 And I think Lin Wood is now a joke.

00:30:36.080 And therefore I didn't count it so much, but the Raffensperger presidential conversation

00:30:42.900 of two days ago that Raffensperger leaked it is incendiary in a party structure.

00:30:49.620 Uh, and I, you know, this is a question of 1%, 1% of the party staying away and, you know,

00:30:55.060 being at 85% instead of 87%.

00:30:57.900 If the 1% that was coming decided to stay home, you're not at 87, you're at 85.

00:31:03.520 And it, it's a, it is a, or, or you energize 1% on the other side by virtue of that.

00:31:10.400 So it's a game of inches like football when the runoff like this is so close and everybody

00:31:15.800 owns a part of the loss.

00:31:17.960 I do.

00:31:18.380 I'm glad you mentioned the media played up every story that benefited Democrats and they

00:31:24.360 suffocated every story that hurt them.

00:31:26.520 There are major character concerns about Pastor Warnick, major character concerns.

00:31:32.640 They received almost no attention from the national news media.

00:31:36.800 They wanted the Democrats to win.

00:31:39.380 And I don't, I will not accept anyone believing that they were other than a hundred percent in

00:31:45.300 on Raphael Warnick and John Ossoff.

00:31:47.360 John Ossoff has nothing to recommend him over David Perdue, except that he had, uh, Raphael

00:31:54.140 Warnick on that ticket.

00:31:55.020 Mm-hmm.

00:31:56.440 This is a guy, Warnock, who is, has, uh, defended Fidel Castro, who said you can't serve the military

00:32:03.140 and God at the same time.

00:32:04.900 And the Democrats, Hugh, who not too long ago were lecturing us and Brett Kavanaugh about

00:32:09.700 how we must believe all women didn't seem to give a damn about what Raphael Warnock's 0.91

00:32:15.960 ex-wife was saying is his character. 0.97

00:32:19.580 Here's, she, she claimed that he ran over her foot with his car.

00:32:23.520 Uh, he denied that, but the problem seemed much bigger than that with respect to his

00:32:28.400 character as defined by her.

00:32:30.480 We have a little bit of a back and forth between the two of them, but you tell me how the media

00:32:34.720 would have treated this story if Raphael Warnock were a Republican.

00:32:37.980 Listen in.

00:32:39.980 So I'm like, move, and she won't move, and she's keeping the door open.

00:32:42.980 Mm-hmm.

00:32:43.780 So I'm like, Chloe, just stay in the car.

00:32:46.140 And I move, and I close my car door, get in the car, and I start to move slightly, thinking

00:32:53.180 she's here.

00:32:55.620 Clear.

00:32:56.260 Yeah, I'm thinking she's clear.

00:32:58.020 And I barely moved.

00:32:59.420 Mm-hmm.

00:32:59.640 And all of a sudden she's screaming that I ran over her foot.

00:33:03.120 I don't believe it.

00:33:04.380 This man's running for the United States Senate, and all he cares about right now is his reputation.

00:33:08.720 I work at the mayor's office, and this is a big problem.

00:33:11.420 Okay.

00:33:11.580 I've been trying to be very quiet about the way that he is for the sake of my kids and

00:33:16.100 his reputation.

00:33:17.220 I've tried to keep the way that he acts under wraps for a long time, and today he crossed

00:33:21.760 the line.

00:33:23.400 So that is what is going on here, and he's a great actor.

00:33:27.240 He is phenomenal at putting on a really good show.

00:33:31.100 You didn't hear that on every cable news show, on the front of the New York Times, and the

00:33:37.400 New Yorker, in-depth profiles on her, Ronan Farrow, you know, the full treatment didn't

00:33:42.560 happen.

00:33:43.340 Did not happen, and you know, he's up for re-election again in two years, and will this

00:33:48.820 metastasize?

00:33:50.000 Will it cripple him?

00:33:50.860 Will it haunt him?

00:33:52.260 It would haunt a Republican.

00:33:53.920 I do have to add, though, Megan, you've watched enough people in politics for so long.

00:33:59.760 You know a good candidate from a bad one immediately.

00:34:02.340 Kelly Loeffler is a terrible candidate. 1.00

00:34:03.900 Do you realize, I invited her on for 60 consecutive days.

00:34:08.040 Open invitation, Senator Loeffler, come on the Hugh Hewitt Show, 14 affiliates in Georgia,

00:34:12.940 drive time, highest rated show in Atlanta for a talk show in the morning.

00:34:17.980 She declined for 60 straight days.

00:34:20.740 Now, Senator Perdue came on, Sonny Perdue came on, Republicans galore came on, surrogates

00:34:26.620 came on, Kelly Loeffler hid.

00:34:29.680 What's that tell you about her?

00:34:31.160 You know people, what's that tell her, tell you?

00:34:33.900 Yeah, she couldn't do it.

00:34:36.060 She knew she didn't have the goods. 0.73

00:34:37.560 She's a poser. 0.99

00:34:40.120 She's a billionaire poser who thought it would make her look good and seem smart to have this 1.00

00:34:46.760 seat, but she didn't want to actually answer to her constituents. 0.94

00:34:50.200 And she thought she could buy the seat.

00:34:52.500 And in fact, you can't buy anything in American politics.

00:34:55.540 You can buy your way into a meeting.

00:34:57.480 You can buy a meeting with a senator.

00:34:59.280 You can buy a lot of lobbyists, but you can't buy votes.

00:35:03.740 And no matter how hard you try, if there's no there there, if you're just a nice person,

00:35:10.160 I think she's a nice person.

00:35:11.700 I do.

00:35:12.840 But I think she married her money.

00:35:15.020 And I believe that she has got a record of accomplishment that is extraordinarily thin

00:35:20.180 and that Brian Kemp lost this election and the Senate when he appointed her instead of

00:35:26.120 Doug Collins to that seat.

00:35:28.900 You know, her again, her opponent is pretty radical, right? 0.62

00:35:33.960 So Warnock's going in because he beat her. 0.92

00:35:36.300 And I know that, you know, you and I, as people who are farther to the right on the

00:35:41.320 ideological scale than James Carville, think that these comments are controversial, the

00:35:45.260 things he said.

00:35:45.940 But Carville came out and said, look, she thinks she's attacking a preacher's words by using 0.99

00:35:50.660 some of these comments like God, the military, but she's really attacking the black church. 1.00

00:35:55.480 And that, he said, has spectacularly backfired.

00:35:59.480 So he thinks these attacks on on Warnock and what he said from the pulpit, because he's

00:36:05.080 a preacher, worked against him because the black vote turned out in record numbers to

00:36:11.920 support the Democrats in Georgia last night.

00:36:14.300 It did.

00:36:15.160 I do not believe, however, that that Jim is James is right about that.

00:36:19.300 I am not a stranger to the black church.

00:36:21.240 I don't I don't belong to one, but I've attended enough of them.

00:36:23.840 And I have a number of friends who are pastors of AME churches and they've never said anything

00:36:29.300 like that.

00:36:29.920 They've never said you cannot serve God in the military.

00:36:32.320 I played that probably 100 times in the last two months because I wanted Georgia is a military 0.98

00:36:37.460 state and I wanted the military to understand Pastor Warnock's view of their service.

00:36:43.540 He is a radical theologian.

00:36:45.180 I don't believe that the black church generally is that radical.

00:36:48.520 And so I didn't see the ads.

00:36:51.460 The one thing that I have not lived in is the Georgia envelope where the the raining down

00:36:58.000 on Warnock and Ossoff of negative ads was relentless.

00:37:01.660 It was a five hundred and fifty million dollar campaign, which is so staggering.

00:37:07.680 That's three California campaigns.

00:37:10.080 And so it's every ad opportunity on every medium plus Internet ads by the score.

00:37:17.000 And it may have indeed turned into a solidarity issue.

00:37:22.540 Damn the facts.

00:37:23.340 Damn the torpedoes.

00:37:24.280 I am voting for the pastor because he's being assailed to this extent.

00:37:29.600 That may have happened, but I don't think it was their choice of excerpt.

00:37:33.700 It may have been identity politics, though.

00:37:36.280 Yeah.

00:37:36.860 Well, it's amazing because Trump did better with the black boat nationally. 1.00

00:37:39.960 I mean, he basically increased his share of it by 50 percent, even though the numbers

00:37:43.340 overall remained low during the November election.

00:37:47.080 But the black boat did in the Republicans in Georgia last night. 0.63

00:37:51.780 What what do you think?

00:37:53.180 You know, I know on your show you've been reminding listeners about Senator Schumer's pledge.

00:37:56.740 Now we take Georgia, then we change America.

00:37:59.920 So what?

00:38:01.260 I don't know.

00:38:02.260 I mean, as as Glenn Beck likes to say, you know, when people tell you what they're going

00:38:06.060 to do, you should believe them and sort of take off on the Maya Angelou quote.

00:38:10.460 And I kind of believe Chuck Schumer is going to change America, that he wants to change

00:38:15.680 America and that and he's probably a stronger leader than Joe Biden is.

00:38:19.580 You may not like him, but he's probably stronger.

00:38:21.700 So what does that mean?

00:38:23.500 I certainly think Trump's legacy on judges will start to get undone.

00:38:27.600 They're definitely not.

00:38:28.640 Those judges are not going to look like Trump's judges.

00:38:30.680 That's not a huge surprise.

00:38:32.140 But what are the areas that you are concerned about?

00:38:34.620 Well, you just hit the number one.

00:38:37.300 If Mitch McConnell controlled the Senate, the president, President Biden, would get many

00:38:42.780 of his judges, but not all of them.

00:38:44.640 Now he will get all of them and they will move the Overton window for Biden judges just

00:38:49.960 moved left so that the California Supreme Court justices that I'm worried about will end

00:38:55.780 up on the Ninth Circuit.

00:38:56.920 That will go down.

00:38:58.240 So the moderating influence of a Republican majority has vanished.

00:39:03.040 First, I do not expect Senators Manchin and Senators King to interfere with judges the way that

00:39:09.460 they might on the filibuster, as I expect they will on the filibuster, on D.C. statehood,

00:39:15.060 on expanding the Supreme Court.

00:39:16.260 That will not fly.

00:39:17.880 The filibuster won't change.

00:39:19.180 And so that won't happen.

00:39:20.200 But nominations are a 50-50 deal.

00:39:23.680 And I expect most of them will come.

00:39:25.320 So Mitch McConnell has to adopt Chuck Schumer slow walking.

00:39:29.040 They've got a slow walk, in a disciplined way, everything.

00:39:33.480 And he cannot seal it up.

00:39:35.160 And so they're going, luckily, there isn't one vacancy on the circuit courts right now.

00:39:40.240 There will suddenly appear many vacancies.

00:39:42.580 I think Justice Breyer will call it quits at the end of this term.

00:39:47.740 Because I want to remind a lot of your listeners, Megan, you'll remember it.

00:39:50.720 In 2001, it was a 50-50 Senate when the smoke cleared in January of 2001.

00:39:56.780 And by June, it was 51-49 Democrats.

00:40:00.820 Because one Democrat switched.

00:40:03.620 Well, life happens.

00:40:05.260 People die.

00:40:06.560 People quit.

00:40:07.520 People change their minds.

00:40:08.720 And people jump parties.

00:40:10.440 And so I expect the Democrats to do the one thing Republicans have never done, which is run.

00:40:15.740 I mean, they're going to try and run the clock.

00:40:17.980 They're going to stay in session.

00:40:19.160 They're going to run, run, run.

00:40:21.640 And Senator McConnell knows that body very, very well, as does Senator Thune.

00:40:26.220 They're going to be maxed out in trying to delay the Democrats as much as the Democrats delayed President Trump.

00:40:33.180 It'll be fascinating from a scholarly point of view to see who's better at obstruction.

00:40:39.080 But Chuck Schumer set the bar pretty high.

00:40:42.420 Well, what do you think the big agenda items will be for Biden?

00:40:45.360 Because you looked at when Barack Obama came into power and we had one-sixth of the U.S. economy altered by Obamacare.

00:40:53.020 Now, he had a much bigger mandate than Joe Biden does, who got dragged across the finish line by Democratic operatives who weekend at Bernie'd him right over into November to the White House.

00:41:05.780 And now he's got a very, very slim margin.

00:41:08.620 I mean, it's basically an evenly divided Senate with Kamala Harris set to cast the deciding vote. 1.00

00:41:13.420 They lost seats in the House.

00:41:14.920 So assuming, like most of us do, that the American public is likely to divide the government in two years, what does he do in these first two years?

00:41:25.100 What do you think are his most—because he promised amnesty, Hugh.

00:41:27.480 He openly promised amnesty at the presidential debate and beyond.

00:41:32.860 That would be huge.

00:41:34.060 But what do you think he's going to use that collateral for?

00:41:37.800 You see, the president gets two bites at the apple.

00:41:41.020 He gets the reconciliation process in the next year, and then he gets the reconciliation process in 2022.

00:41:49.780 So he gets a 2021 reconciliation package and a 2022 reconciliation.

00:41:53.600 That only requires 51 votes in the Senate.

00:41:55.800 And a reconciliation package is, by law, and the parliamentarian will rule out of order anything that does not affect the budget.

00:42:04.220 So I believe the first thing he will do will be to raise taxes comprehensively.

00:42:09.520 And the Green New Deal taxes will be a part of that.

00:42:11.660 So that carbon tax is, I think, the very first thing.

00:42:15.360 Up the tax on corporations.

00:42:17.740 Up the tax on small businesses.

00:42:20.020 Return the state and local income tax deduction and perhaps the mortgage interest deduction,

00:42:24.780 which has been crushing blue states' revenues.

00:42:27.360 I think that all goes into the first reconciliation bill.

00:42:31.840 The second one is immigration because you can maybe squeeze it in by taxing new citizens or new residents.

00:42:41.100 So if you said everybody who's in the country can become a citizen by virtue of paying a tax of a few hundred dollars,

00:42:50.800 then it becomes a tax and spending issue and is qualified, I think, for reconciliation.

00:42:56.040 I think those are the two big issues that he can accomplish with a 50 Democrat Senate.

00:43:02.580 There's also the Congressional Review Act, Megan.

00:43:05.220 And people forget that, that the Congressional Review Act provides that by simple majority,

00:43:10.400 any regulation passed in the last year can be repealed.

00:43:14.260 And there was a lot of work done by the Trump administration in the last year,

00:43:19.180 particularly out of the Environmental Protection Agency.

00:43:21.500 I always note my son works there so that no one claims a conflict of interest.

00:43:25.800 Not for long.

00:43:26.680 He doesn't work there, but he works there now.

00:43:28.420 And they did a lot of work this year.

00:43:30.520 And that's all going to be repealed.

00:43:32.900 Oh, yeah.

00:43:33.320 I mean, all those Trump executive orders, those are all going away.

00:43:36.660 But we knew that as soon as Joe Biden won.

00:43:39.300 Now it's a bigger question of what can be done with the cooperation of, you know,

00:43:43.200 the co-equal branches of government, one of which he's going to stack with more left-leaning judges

00:43:47.240 and one of which he now controls as the Democrats appear to take power in both branches of the House and the Senate.

00:43:52.920 And don't forget, Obamacare was shoved through through that same reconciliation.

00:43:56.220 It was an economic budget move, which is why they only required 51 votes instead of 60 at the time.

00:44:02.780 And that was why the Scott Brown election was so important in Massachusetts and so on and so forth.

00:44:07.540 Anyway, I don't know.

00:44:10.220 I think things could get more radical and I think it could happen soon.

00:44:13.480 It's funny because you're right.

00:44:15.100 You've got guys like Manchin of West Virginia who are not not far left people at all.

00:44:19.780 You know, that guy's at best center left.

00:44:21.940 But then you got people like Mitt Romney, who I'm amazed at what's happened to Mitt Romney.

00:44:26.700 Did you have you been seeing the videos that have been circulating of people harassing him like in the in the airport and so on?

00:44:31.100 But Mitt Romney sounds an awful lot more like a Democrat to me than any other guy I ever saw get the Republican nomination for president.

00:44:39.500 Well, I'm a big fan of Governor Romney.

00:44:41.340 I helped him write his book, Megan, when he ran for president.

00:44:44.340 I wrote a book about him myself.

00:44:45.720 So I am a very, very big fan of Governor and now Senator Romney.

00:44:49.160 He voted instantly for Amy Coney Barrett, came out on the first day and said, I'm voting for Barrett.

00:44:53.160 But I believe he is a traditional New England Republican who happened to be transplanted to California and then to Utah and that like traditional New England Republicans, he is center right and more on the center than the right.

00:45:09.740 But I don't believe he'll vote for tax.

00:45:11.500 He's a business guy.

00:45:12.440 He's not going to vote for business destroying taxes.

00:45:15.300 He won't vote for crazy left wing judges.

00:45:17.460 He won't approve.

00:45:18.540 He is like Rob Portman, old school Republican, country club Republicans, they used to be called.

00:45:24.760 And they still matter.

00:45:25.800 And they're suburban.

00:45:27.300 And I don't think the harassment you've seen is the underlying breach in the Republican Party.

00:45:33.640 The fault line in the GOP is between Trumpists and old guard.

00:45:38.540 And I try and keep everybody happy and I try and listen to everybody because I want everyone to get along.

00:45:44.460 I don't know.

00:45:45.260 That is the that is the question.

00:45:47.480 Can there be a reconciliation?

00:45:49.620 The errors to Trump, in my mind, are Ron DeSantis, Tom Cotton and Mike Pompeo.

00:45:56.080 I don't think Ted Cruz is in that category.

00:45:58.340 I don't think anyone who ran against him actually in 2016 can pick up the mantle without MAGA America being upset.

00:46:06.960 But I think those three people can and maybe Nikki Haley as a fourth and maybe Dan Crenshaw as a fifth.

00:46:13.560 But that's going to be the debate in 2023, 2024 is what does the president do and to whom does he do it?

00:46:21.900 I don't know.

00:46:22.280 I've always respected Mitt Romney, but he he's been so sharp in his criticism of the president and the president's supporters that I understand their anger at him.

00:46:35.140 He he I mean, the people of Utah are ticked off.

00:46:38.240 They wanted a Republican to go in there and support a Republican agenda.

00:46:41.920 And Mitt Romney, he's been so all over the board in hating President Trump, supporting President Trump, going back to President Trump on bended knee, then attacking President Trump.

00:46:50.360 I understand why people have developed this feeling about him.

00:46:53.560 I don't like to see anybody get harassed just as a human matter.

00:46:56.620 But I don't know.

00:46:58.700 He seems to go and he's at the Black Lives Matter protests.

00:47:01.180 It's like, do you know what you're protesting for?

00:47:02.480 Do you actually know what that group stands for?

00:47:04.400 Like he he to me looks awfully, awfully Democratic these days.

00:47:08.820 And I I do wonder when push comes to shove, what constituency he's serving.

00:47:13.600 And look, I like the guy moderated one of his conferences.

00:47:15.800 It's not like I have any problem with Mitt Romney, the man.

00:47:18.460 As a politician, he seems an awful lot more to the left than most of those GOPers.

00:47:24.220 So listen, I want to do two things.

00:47:25.760 I want to quickly get an ad in.

00:47:27.080 But I also want to talk about Jacob Blake quickly, who, you know, was the was the was the man who was shot in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

00:47:34.920 He was not killed, but he was shot repeatedly by a police officer.

00:47:37.700 There's been news in that case.

00:47:38.840 But before we get to it, I want to talk to the audience about Truthfinder.

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00:47:42.880 Pretty much everybody has.

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00:47:46.880 Well, the majority of Americans admit to keeping an eye on their online reputation.

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00:48:28.200 Go to truthfinder.com slash Kelly right away to start your search.

00:48:32.580 Again, that's truthfinder.com slash Kelly.

00:48:36.320 OK, Hugh, so I want to get back to politics and what's happening with the presidential race in a second.

00:48:40.460 But quickly on Jacob Blake, this is one of the cases that we saw over the summer that led to massive protests.

00:48:46.860 It led to that shooting we saw in Wisconsin later with Kyle Rittenhouse at that one protest for which he's facing charges.

00:48:55.000 And it all came down to an incident in which Jacob Blake, who was accused of violating a protective order that his ex had gotten against him, showed up at her house in a threatening way.

00:49:05.580 She called the police, she called the police, they showed up, he resisted arrest, he got the cop in a headlock.

00:49:11.680 Some of the scuffle was caught on camera, but not all of it.

00:49:14.600 And he wound up getting shot by a police officer seven times.

00:49:19.180 Unleash, you know, hell, because the protests happened.

00:49:22.820 Kamala Harris went to visit him in the hospital, said she was proud of him.

00:49:26.360 Um, and and many people taking a look at the at these facts thought, why are you proud of him?

00:49:32.740 He was accused of digitally raping the woman that called the police on him.

00:49:37.560 And at best, he assaulted a police officer who was trying to place him under arrest for violating a protective order.

00:49:42.760 It's not to say he deserved to get shot seven times, but you don't go tell somebody like that they're proud of him, that you're proud of him.

00:49:48.500 And and what the facts appeared to suggest at the time was that Jacob Blake was armed, that the reason he got shot is because, A, he resisted arrest.

00:49:57.500 B, he had a knife on him and refused to drop it, despite the police's calls that he do so.

00:50:04.460 And then he turned with the knife on police.

00:50:06.400 And that is when they opened fire.

00:50:07.880 OK, people refused to accept this, even though the evidence was there.

00:50:10.920 Third parties, the police union came out early on and the D.A.

00:50:14.300 And I'll tell you what they're saying now.

00:50:16.220 Yesterday, the Kenosha D.A. said, we're not charging this cop.

00:50:21.240 It is incontrovertible, incontrovertible that Jacob Blake was armed.

00:50:28.760 And we've got some of that.

00:50:31.080 Let's take a listen to what he said.

00:50:32.100 Very important.

00:50:34.260 Jacob Blake, while actively resisting, arms himself with a knife.

00:50:38.700 I continue to hear.

00:50:40.960 I think I heard the rally last night, the vigil where someone again said he was unarmed.

00:50:47.640 It is absolutely incontrovertible that Jacob Blake was armed with a knife during this encounter.

00:50:55.300 OK, so that was obvious to anyone paying attention to this case from the beginning.

00:51:02.140 And you could see what appeared to be a knife on the on the in the car that he approached.

00:51:09.520 And the police from the beginning had been saying that he had it on him and then turned against them with it.

00:51:14.560 Here's the thing.

00:51:15.340 Here's here.

00:51:15.860 Here's the rub.

00:51:16.660 Hugh, the media takes these cases, blows them up without context, without an open mind, without even deigning to report what the police officer side is and tries to make it a race issue, a police abuse issue.

00:51:31.480 You and I both know as lawyers, the law makes no distinction between bullet number one and bullet number seven.

00:51:36.640 If the cop has has a reasonable fear of bodily safety or death, he may shoot to kill.

00:51:41.960 That's the law.

00:51:43.380 I realize it doesn't look good or feel good to see an officer shoot a man seven times.

00:51:47.800 But people don't understand what it's like to be a cop and have to worry every night that he's not going to go home to his family and understand that every day in this country, a cop gets gets shot by somebody he's trying to arrest.

00:51:58.200 So I here's here's my issue with it.

00:52:01.480 Number one, the media and number two, activists who will refuse to acknowledge this, as the Kenosha D.A. says, they will refuse to acknowledge that Jacob Blake was armed and had assaulted a police officer.

00:52:12.920 And they did have a reasonable fear of fear for their bodily safety or lives.

00:52:16.340 And that's why no one's going to be charged.

00:52:18.900 And I'll just say one other thing in it.

00:52:21.080 I tweeted out an article that that reflected the police officer side and the D.A.'s suggestion that this guy was armed, that he had a knife at the time.

00:52:29.200 Well, the Internet lost its mind, attacked me.

00:52:31.560 Racist, racist, racist.

00:52:33.120 One awful person in particular, Soledad O'Brien, who I really can't stand.

00:52:36.520 She's the nastiest person on Twitter, attacked me with a racist insult for saying that. 1.00

00:52:43.360 Somebody tweeted out yesterday, where's where's your apology to Megyn Kelly?

00:52:46.100 I don't need an apology.

00:52:46.920 It's not about me.

00:52:47.700 But here's the problem.

00:52:48.760 The media does this.

00:52:50.980 Anybody who pushes back on these narratives gets called an awful name.

00:52:54.200 The media has no interest in reporting the truth.

00:52:56.120 They try to shut you down by calling you terrible terms.

00:52:58.300 This is what's real.

00:53:00.800 And the reason I have never gotten one of these cases wrong, not once, I've always been able to tell you whether the cop is going to get charged or not, is because I just pay attention to where the facts take me.

00:53:10.400 I don't have an ideological agenda on this stuff.

00:53:12.620 I'm not some activist.

00:53:14.220 And I think we're in a lot of trouble in this country when it comes to race relations and other issues right now because we have a dishonest media that's more focused on identity politics and virtue signaling than they are on facts, Hugh.

00:53:25.700 I agree.

00:53:26.700 They have to distinguish between unjustified uses of force and justified uses of force.

00:53:32.580 This came home to me when Michael Eric Dyson was my guest on my show recently.

00:53:37.560 He has a new book out, Long Time Coming, which I would recommend to everyone, which revisits most of the high profile cases of the last decade, including Michael Brown.

00:53:47.640 And Michael Eric Dyson, Dr. Dyson, I disagreed about Michael Brown because I'm very intimately familiar with the Michael Brown shooting.

00:53:54.640 And Dr. Dyson believes it was unjust.

00:53:57.200 And I believe, look, it was an Eric Holder Department of Justice that exonerated the officer.

00:54:01.340 In the Kenosha case, there's one factor also you did not mention, Megan.

00:54:05.860 There were children in the car.

00:54:07.340 And if he had been allowed to drive away, he would have had three children in imminent danger of their lives in an excited state and with a weapon and with police pursuit.

00:54:19.640 So I've always thought that this was a case that that ought to have cautioned the media to slow down.

00:54:26.220 But like you, I bring a lawyer's perspective to everything.

00:54:29.440 I've never taught criminal law, but I've taught a lot of constitutional cases involving the criminal law.

00:54:35.660 And it always does come down to the moment in which the incident occurs and not to people on the sidelines.

00:54:42.040 My own newspaper, The Washington Post, I believe, had to issue a correction yesterday because they they said Mr. Blake was unarmed and they had to rush out.

00:54:50.200 Well, in fact, he was armed.

00:54:51.420 And so like Michael Brown, this is not an Eric Garner case.

00:54:55.800 This is not a George Floyd case.

00:54:58.060 This is a different case.

00:55:00.000 And however, I do understand.

00:55:02.600 And it's the reason I encourage people to read Michael Eric Dyson.

00:55:05.040 I understand the point of view of activists who say don't confuse the facts with the trend.

00:55:11.000 And the trend is that the police approach blacks differently than they approach every other American group.

00:55:17.620 There's an argument there.

00:55:18.900 That argument, however, does not make policemen go to jail or punish them when they are in fear of bodily harm

00:55:26.400 or when they have to go to the aid of three children in the back of a vehicle being about to be operated by an individual who's just been in a fight with the police and is armed.

00:55:36.240 So to me, the best thing to do is to take a race out of the case, examine it and then add race back in.

00:55:44.120 And usually if you do that, you'll get to the right answer.

00:55:46.920 If you talk to Glenn Lowry, he'll be quick to tell you, Hugh, that there is that the reason the police approach people of color differently than everybody else is because the crime rates in the major cities, it's not popular to say, but 60 percent of the murders in major cities are committed by black defendants.

00:56:03.640 And so there is there is empirical data that may make the police approach in certain cities in particular, people of color differently than than white people or other other groups of potential suspects.

00:56:17.540 It's not popular, but these are facts and they have to be taken into account when assessing police behavior.

00:56:23.940 I have to tell you a quick story, Megan, in the first presidential debate I did after your famous debate, I got the second debate at the Reagan Library and I had to drive very quickly from Palo Alto to the Reagan Library.

00:56:38.900 And I was driving at night and I may have been exceeding the speed limit.

00:56:41.700 I will not confess to that, but I may have been going fast and my gas cap may have been open.

00:56:46.180 But it was because I was in a hurry.

00:56:48.400 I had to make rehearsal and you know how that goes.

00:56:49.820 So I got pulled over by a chippy in California who approached the car and I decided I would do the dishonorable thing. 1.00

00:56:56.500 I played the debate card.

00:56:57.820 I said, well, I have to get down to the Reagan Library.

00:57:00.500 I'm in the debate.

00:57:01.520 And he looked at me and he walked back to his car and he honestly going to check to see if Hugh Hewitt was on the debate panel.

00:57:07.160 And he came back to the guy, I'm going to let you go.

00:57:08.780 Would you get out of the car for a moment?

00:57:09.860 I said, sure.

00:57:10.720 Got out of the car and he said, I'm going to let you go.

00:57:12.460 But on the condition that you ask those candidates, when are they going to stand up for the police who are being fronted?

00:57:17.360 As I was last night on this stretch by every motorist who believes it's in their interest now to confront police.

00:57:23.000 Fronting mean to stand close to a police officer and argue with them.

00:57:26.960 I didn't ask the question.

00:57:28.280 Jake did.

00:57:29.220 But it was it was a revelation to me.

00:57:32.560 He wasn't asking for any particular point of view just to let the public know that the life of the police officer has grown increasingly difficult.

00:57:40.680 With attention to every controversial case, increasingly impossible to do.

00:57:46.820 Yeah, I know.

00:57:48.500 I mean, listen, I don't want to discount that there's any bias in law enforcement or that black men in particular get treated differently by the cops and not always for good reasons.

00:57:58.160 But we do have to keep in mind the overall statistics and factoring in what happens in these interactions and getting to the root cause of why that happens.

00:58:08.220 Everyone just knee jerk, bias, bias, bias, race, race, race, racists isn't helpful.

00:58:13.480 There's so much more to it.

00:58:15.020 And if we would just be honest about what causes the crime rates and how we can help people in the inner city do better and have better lives and be less likely to resort to crime without just saying everyone's racist.

00:58:24.860 It's white supremacy. I think we get a lot farther to just to put the point on what you said.

00:58:29.460 The Washington Post did tweet out yesterday.

00:58:31.220 Unbelievable.

00:58:32.660 Here's the quote.

00:58:33.600 Police officers won't be charged in shooting of Jacob Blake, an unarmed black man who was shot seven times in the back in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

00:58:42.680 How disgustingly wrong.

00:58:44.900 I won't make you criticize your publication, but I'll do it.

00:58:48.140 Disgustingly wrong.

00:58:49.320 And they're not the only ones.

00:58:50.840 I mean, that narrative has been pushed by a lot of people.

00:58:52.660 So, OK, moving on.

00:58:55.140 Can we stop for a second, man?

00:58:56.600 Yeah, go for it.

00:58:57.240 I want people to note what Megan just did there.

00:58:59.500 And it's a professional courtesy not to ask someone to critique their own platform.

00:59:05.300 But in this case, it is an inexcusable error and one that the Post immediately corrected because it is an inexcusable error on a controversy of extraordinary public importance that could lead to violence and public demonstrations to get the basic facts wrong.

00:59:22.660 Inexcusable, inexcusable error.

00:59:25.140 Yeah.

00:59:25.700 Well, it's good they corrected it.

00:59:26.900 I will say that.

00:59:28.400 OK, so let's let's talk about the presidency, which is still being debated today, Hugh.

00:59:35.100 Today, as you know, we're supposed to have Mike Pence preside over the finalization of these electoral votes.

00:59:45.400 He's being pressured by the president to not do it.

00:59:48.280 It's the certification of the vote of the Electoral College.

00:59:51.520 Senator Hawley, Senator Cruz are promising to object, to make waves.

00:59:56.140 And in order to have real debate on any of this, you have to have a member of the House and a member of the Senate.

01:00:00.080 And you've got them both on several states object.

01:00:02.780 And then they have debates in their own individual chambers.

01:00:04.740 And then they come back and they see if there's any of the bottom line is nothing.

01:00:07.660 This is all for show.

01:00:08.940 Nothing's going to change.

01:00:10.000 Biden's going to get, you know, certified.

01:00:12.940 But what do you make of what's happening today?

01:00:15.680 A couple of things.

01:00:16.500 One, it happened in 2004 and 2016.

01:00:20.780 Democrats making the objections, the debates being triggered.

01:00:23.540 And so I don't think it's a constitutional crisis.

01:00:26.620 I don't think it's the end of the republic.

01:00:28.620 I think it has become now part of the pattern in practice that will now follow presidential elections forever.

01:00:34.480 That some members of the public will ask their representatives, key word there, to represent them with their dismay at some aspect.

01:00:45.400 It was Ohio in 2004 and 2016.

01:00:48.460 I'm not sure what animated the objectors.

01:00:50.800 But it is not a constitutional crisis.

01:00:52.700 It's the exercise of representation and responsibility.

01:00:56.280 I do not, I would not myself object and I would not myself participate in any debate that trafficked in falseness.

01:01:06.640 I have to deal every day with callers who want to talk about Dominion.

01:01:11.340 There's nothing wrong with the Dominion machines.

01:01:13.560 I have to talk every day, had to talk about today, about dead people voting.

01:01:17.500 There is no evidence of dead people voting.

01:01:19.520 This is, again, the lawyer in both of us coming out.

01:01:22.300 Sixty different legal challenges were filed and in not one of them was an evidentiary bar met that would allow it to proceed to the accumulation of evidence by deposition or exhibit such that judgments would be made following rulings.

01:01:36.940 And so there just isn't a case anywhere in the United States, not one state, not two states, not the minimum of three states necessary.

01:01:45.260 So this is performance art and performance art and politics is just fine.

01:01:49.860 And what I don't like, and we're back to double standards, is that which was uncontroversial and covered sympathetically in 2004 and 2016 is being treated as a rending of the republic in 2020 because it's Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley and Jim Lankford bringing it forward.

01:02:07.380 I would not myself object, but I also I do object to the idea that this is some kind of crisis.

01:02:14.440 I agree with you on that.

01:02:15.460 I agree with you.

01:02:15.980 If there is a if there is a provision for it happening in the Constitution, it's not it's not by definition a constitutional abuse to then do it.

01:02:25.280 You know, it's like it's a constitutional crisis.

01:02:27.740 Like, well, how can it be a crisis if the Constitution allows for this very thing?

01:02:31.280 You just don't it's making you uncomfortable.

01:02:33.140 You don't like it.

01:02:34.380 That doesn't make it a constitutional crisis.

01:02:36.360 If I could just repeat that again.

01:02:38.040 And if the president doesn't go to the inauguration, that's not a constitutional crisis.

01:02:42.680 If he doesn't have Joe Biden over to the White House, it's not a constitutional crisis.

01:02:46.720 A constitutional crisis is when the Constitution is ignored or broken.

01:02:50.340 It's not when it's actually the pattern of law or practice is is established and is being followed by a different party.

01:02:59.680 So let me ask you about the next two weeks.

01:03:02.100 Right. So Joe Biden's going to get certified today.

01:03:05.280 And what does Trump do over the next two weeks before the inauguration?

01:03:09.740 Or do we expect more pardons?

01:03:11.160 And if so, which ones?

01:03:13.620 I don't know.

01:03:15.060 I'm waiting to see.

01:03:16.140 I mean, he's still going to be saying what he's saying about the electoral process.

01:03:18.520 And there's a big rally in D.C. today.

01:03:20.440 But what do you think we could expect?

01:03:22.480 I think we will see more pardons.

01:03:24.000 Full disclosure, I put my name to a pardon effort for a.

01:03:28.300 Why would you do?

01:03:29.040 No, I just sent a note to a member of the staff saying, I think this fellow deserves it.

01:03:33.400 A longtime rehabilitated prisoner who's active in evangelical circles.

01:03:37.760 And I don't think that's bad.

01:03:39.100 That's routine at the end of the administration.

01:03:41.480 It was routine when I was in the White House.

01:03:43.060 People get pardon applications and people ask all the time.

01:03:45.720 And sometimes it works.

01:03:47.120 Not it wouldn't be high profile.

01:03:48.280 It wouldn't be controversial.

01:03:49.220 It's nothing like that.

01:03:50.420 But I do believe there will be more pardons because it's the last thing a president can do.

01:03:54.380 I hope there are no corrupt pardons.

01:03:56.180 I do also think that he will be expansive in his grants of Medal of Freedoms.

01:04:03.100 I'm not sure that I would have given one to Devin Nunes and Jim Jordan.

01:04:05.940 I like them both, but it's not Medal of Freedom stuff.

01:04:08.220 But that's the president.

01:04:08.960 Again, it's up to him.

01:04:11.680 It's performance art.

01:04:13.300 Again, and the Democrats do it when they're in power and the president's going to do it when he's in power.

01:04:16.800 I would just, I would just say to everybody, it will be fine.

01:04:21.200 Everything's going to be fine.

01:04:22.940 And the president's going to decide for himself when he's not president anymore how to conduct himself.

01:04:27.840 And that will be fine.

01:04:29.140 And Joe Biden will be president and that will be fine.

01:04:31.180 We live in the best time ever to be alive in the best country ever to be alive in.

01:04:35.860 And I think sometimes we get caught up in the, I mean, we're talking on a podcast and a new way of communicating.

01:04:41.000 So the ups and downs, if we can keep our eyes on the Chinese Communist Party, which is crushing Hong Kong this week, that would be a good thing as opposed to our foibles. 0.93

01:04:49.320 And these are just foibles in the larger scheme of things.

01:04:52.020 No, no.

01:04:52.300 We would rather navel gaze about pigmentation and lady parts. 1.00

01:04:55.260 That's what we're focused on these days, too.

01:04:58.340 So what do you think, just quickly, the future of the GOP party?

01:05:02.700 Because I do wonder, after last night in Georgia, people are saying, oh, Trump, you know, he's a drag.

01:05:07.240 He's a drag. 1.00

01:05:07.840 I'm like, no.

01:05:09.960 He's not a drag.

01:05:10.860 He's half the party.

01:05:12.200 So what happens now?

01:05:13.740 Because he's going to exit the White House, though, not the national stage.

01:05:17.380 Exactly.

01:05:17.880 And he's never going to give up the Twitter account, and nor should he.

01:05:20.460 I think he's going to start Trump 2024 immediately.

01:05:22.840 Whether or not he runs, that will remain open, but he'll raise a lot of money.

01:05:26.020 His endorsements will matter significantly.

01:05:28.440 I hope he has good advisors around him on the candidate selection process, because we do not need fringe candidates.

01:05:36.360 They will lose, as they did in the first Tea Party years.

01:05:39.060 Easy seats like Delaware.

01:05:40.600 Chris Coons was there because we ran a very marginal person who beat Mike Castle in a primary.

01:05:46.380 Mike Castle would have been a Republican senator like Mitt Romney, center-right, who would still be there to this day.

01:05:51.400 I don't think he died.

01:05:52.120 And instead, it's been Chris Coons.

01:05:54.580 So we need to be wise, but not much will be discernible until after the redistricting is done.

01:06:01.080 The key thing for the Republican Party is to recruit.

01:06:03.900 It's sort of like media has got to go younger, younger, younger, and it's got to get rid of the, frankly, people like my age.

01:06:12.900 They've got to pass from the scene and let new people expressing new points of view rise up and take control of the party.

01:06:21.360 And that transition is never easy.

01:06:23.960 But if the Republicans do one thing right, which is to candidate recruit the way that Tom Emmer did this time for the House cycle, if Mitch McConnell does that, they do have to persuade Pat Toomey to run again in Pennsylvania.

01:06:35.900 But they can have a pretty good cycle if they come up with a woman veteran in Colorado who was in combat. 1.00

01:06:41.480 They can beat Michael Bennett in 2022.

01:06:43.620 If they come up with a woman veteran in Georgia, she can beat Raphael Warnick in 2022. 1.00

01:06:48.060 There's a lot of opportunity because we actually, we being Republicans, again, I don't want to make you a member of my party, Megan.

01:06:53.520 I know you're an independent.

01:06:55.360 My party can very much win everything back in two and four years like we did in 2010 and 2016.

01:07:05.900 And just to reiterate, you were sort of calling out who you thought was the future in terms of presidential politics of 2024.

01:07:12.780 You mentioned DeSantis of Florida, Crenshaw, possibly.

01:07:15.220 Who else did you say?

01:07:16.220 Tom Cotton, Mike Pompeo and Nikki Haley, I would guess, are the frontrunners, because I do think anyone who ran against President Trump in 2016 has a burden in the eyes of MAGA America, whereas those who are generally supportive of him do not.

01:07:29.520 Not even Ted Cruz?

01:07:30.340 I mean, I know you said earlier, no, but like he's gone full Trump.

01:07:33.360 You know, he's one of his biggest supporters.

01:07:34.940 It still remains difficult, in my view, to see someone stepping up who has crossed swords with the president.

01:07:42.420 He's got the longest memory ever, and it just will come into play in that cycle.

01:07:49.400 What about Tim Scott?

01:07:50.880 Very, very, very viable candidate.

01:07:53.100 And I think, boy, it would be great if he did.

01:07:56.600 He likes being a senator, though, Megan.

01:07:59.260 I've talked to him on a few occasions about policy.

01:08:01.680 He really likes being a senator.

01:08:03.580 And there are some people, like Mitch McConnell, who are called to the Senate for their entire lives.

01:08:08.260 And I think maybe Tom Cotton may end up being one of those, but he also has ambitions for the highest office.

01:08:14.520 And what's interesting, we've learned in the last two cycles, when the moment is upon you, you cannot hesitate.

01:08:21.140 You have to run.

01:08:21.920 And so I think it's going to be 24 people, and you and I are going to be moderating debates throughout the Republican primary season, double the number that we did in 2016.

01:08:31.260 I'm going to put another name on your list, and I realize he's only an AG, a state AG, but Daniel Cameron.

01:08:39.120 I got eyes on Daniel Cameron.

01:08:41.020 He is a rising star in the Republican Party.

01:08:43.820 I think he's sort of the Barack Obama of the right.

01:08:47.540 And he'll be a governor by that time, because he will win the governorship of Kentucky in the next cycle.

01:08:52.160 He's 100% going to be a governor, and he's brilliant.

01:08:55.900 He's brave.

01:08:57.120 He doesn't care what you're going to say about him.

01:08:59.860 All the names he's been called after he refused to get the indictment in the Breonna Taylor case.

01:09:05.000 We had him on the show not long ago.

01:09:06.960 Really, really impressive guy.

01:09:08.860 As are you, Hugh Hewitt.

01:09:10.460 As are you.

01:09:11.520 Megan, always a pleasure.

01:09:13.100 Thank you.

01:09:13.580 Continued good luck with this.

01:09:14.860 It's going so well, and increased success to you in 2021.

01:09:19.500 Aw, thank you.

01:09:20.460 Much love.

01:09:20.940 We appreciate it.

01:09:22.540 Thanks to Hugh Hewitt.

01:09:23.560 That was super fun, as well as Dave Briggs.

01:09:25.980 And I want to tell you, before we go, our episode today was brought to you in part by Norton 360 with LifeLock.

01:09:30.760 Protect yourself from cybercrime.

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01:09:38.580 Now's the perfect time.

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01:09:44.100 Don't forget to tune into the program on Friday, because we're going to have Glenn Beck on a tear

01:09:49.940 about his call for secession and where this country's going over the next four years.

01:09:55.900 Love, Glenn.

01:09:56.380 We were always tight at Fox, and he's got some interesting thoughts on where we are at this moment in time.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - January 06, 2021

Georgia Goes Blue, with Hugh Hewitt and Dave Briggs ｜ Ep. 47

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