The Megyn Kelly Show - Gov. Ron DeSantis on DOJ Corruption, His Disney Fight, and Pardoning Trump, Plus, Victor Davis Hanson on Hunter's Sweetheart Near Deal

00:00:00.540 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.960 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and my sit down with Governor Ron DeSantis.

00:00:18.780 I'm so grateful that we did it. It went great. I think it went great for him.

00:00:22.540 I think you're going to really enjoy it and you may learn a lot about him and his policy positions.

00:00:27.520 And it was substantive. We appreciate all the time he gave us because if they give you five minutes, you can't really get substantive.

00:00:33.500 We had 45 and we did. Later, we're going to take a look at the new charges leveled against former President Donald Trump.

00:00:39.540 They've added three new ones now, but not yet charged him on the January 6th thing, which could have happened yesterday, but didn't.

00:00:47.880 And we'll talk about the timing of it all coming just days after Hunter Biden's plea deal fell apart in stunning fashion.

00:00:55.020 A lot of thoughts on that. Plus, something extraordinary out of Oakland, California.

00:01:00.320 The residents there fighting back about the rampant crime in their city.

00:01:06.220 The NAACP appears to be openly complaining about the defund the police movement, about the soft on crime DA.

00:01:15.380 We'll talk about all of it when Victor Davis Hanson joins us with the reaction to our DeSantis interview

00:01:20.440 and thoughts on all of those news stories.

00:01:23.180 But we begin with Florida governor and 2024 Republican candidate Ron DeSantis.

00:01:29.820 I just got back from Tallahassee where I spent time with the governor.

00:01:33.360 We conducted the interview yesterday morning, one of the most extensive of the campaign cycle.

00:01:38.220 And no topic was off limits.

00:01:40.740 We talked about his efforts to restart his campaign.

00:01:43.300 That's a term his campaign is using, restart, reset.

00:01:46.120 We talked about abortion, Hunter Biden, whether his legal war against Disney is really what conservatives want.

00:01:53.040 We also discussed his recent comments on Robert Kennedy Jr. that blew up in the media.

00:01:58.720 So there's plenty to get to.

00:02:00.140 But first, a look back at the rise of Ron DeSantis.

00:02:05.440 He was a World Series baseball player as a kid, a graduate of Yale and Harvard Law,

00:02:10.720 then served three terms in Congress as the hometown guy made good.

00:02:14.260 But it was as governor of Florida pushing back on COVID orthodoxy that Ron DeSantis became a star.

00:02:20.620 Excuse me, excuse me.

00:02:21.740 If I could finish my question.

00:02:22.560 You just said, what has gone wrong?

00:02:23.840 So I'm answering the question.

00:02:24.900 So are you going to give a speech or are you going to ask a question?

00:02:27.560 Because you got a lot of people in your profession who waxed poetically for weeks and weeks

00:02:32.520 about how Florida was going to be just like New York.

00:02:35.440 Well, hell, we're eight weeks away from that and it hasn't happened.

00:02:38.680 At a time when few others questioned the likes of Anthony Fauci and the media who loved him

00:02:43.520 on lockdowns, masks,

00:02:46.340 and school closures, Ron DeSantis stood out.

00:02:53.600 While he did lock down Florida for a time in April 2020, unlike most other governors,

00:02:58.380 he was quick to reopen.

00:02:59.880 He stopped businesses from firing employees who rejected the vaccine.

00:03:03.780 And he permanently banned mask mandates, recognizing early on what Fauci and others

00:03:09.480 initially denied, but eventually were also forced to admit.

00:03:13.680 You do not have to wear those masks.

00:03:15.200 I mean, please take it off.

00:03:16.460 Honestly, it's not doing anything and we got to stop with this COVID theater.

00:03:20.540 His bold stances led to mockery from the mainstream press and the nickname Death Santis.

00:03:26.760 Governor Death Santis in Florida.

00:03:28.620 Now as Governor Death Santis continues to push to infect the Sunshine State's children,

00:03:33.780 with his dangerous and stupefying mask mandate ban.

00:03:37.140 And he should be criminally liable for that.

00:03:40.140 You are actually committing negligent homicide when people die on your watch.

00:03:44.980 A Miami Herald editorial board concluded

00:03:47.080 any public distrust of this administration has been well earned.

00:03:51.640 But DeSantis never backed down.

00:03:53.700 That's a fake narrative.

00:03:54.920 It's a fake narrative.

00:03:55.920 I just disabused you of the narrative and you don't care about the facts.

00:04:00.320 He took on the culture wars as fearlessly as the COVID battles,

00:04:03.100 banning school lesson plans that shamed children for their race,

00:04:06.860 signing a law restricting teachers from including sexual orientation

00:04:10.220 and gender identity in the curriculum of young students.

00:04:14.000 That law later expanded to high school students,

00:04:16.720 also barred teachers from punishing students who declined to use another's preferred pronouns.

00:04:21.960 We never did this through all of human history until like, what, two weeks ago?

00:04:27.460 Now this is something.

00:04:28.500 They're having third graders declare pronouns.

00:04:31.340 We're not doing the pronoun Olympics in Florida.

00:04:33.980 It was moves like those that propelled DeSantis to a nearly 20-point victory in his Florida

00:04:39.160 re-election bid, turning once reliably blue counties red.

00:04:43.940 Florida is where woke goes to die.

00:04:47.320 A striking change from his first gubernatorial win.

00:04:51.280 Just four years earlier, DeSantis eked out a victory over Democrat Andrew Gillum

00:04:55.660 by less than half a percentage point.

00:04:58.200 On the trail with him, then-President Donald Trump.

00:05:01.580 Ron is a veteran and he's a patriot.

00:05:04.820 Ron will keep your taxes going way down, jobs going way up,

00:05:09.040 and he will always support our veterans, our military, and our law enforcement.

00:05:15.400 Is Southwest Florida Trump country or what?

00:05:20.140 Trump backed DeSantis, which helped catapult DeSantis to victory.

00:05:24.240 Neither man appearing to realize their political ambitions would one day collide.

00:05:29.120 I'd like to thank our president for standing by me.

00:05:32.540 I think we'll have a great partnership.

00:05:34.000 Despite Trump's 2024 presidential bid, 44-year-old DeSantis is now running for president.

00:05:40.620 I got him elected.

00:05:41.640 This guy was dead politically, and I thought he was very disloyal when he said,

00:05:45.360 yes, I'd run.

00:05:46.140 Disloyal to who?

00:05:47.240 I did a lot for him in 2016 and 2020.

00:05:49.860 I'm loyal to my family, to our Constitution, and to the good Lord.

00:05:54.180 DeSantis was born in Jacksonville, Florida.

00:05:56.640 His mother, Karen, a nurse.

00:05:58.400 His father, Ronald, installed audience tracking devices for the TV ratings company Nielsen.

00:06:02.980 Despite humble beginnings, DeSantis would later excel in the Ivy League.

00:06:07.960 After a short time teaching high school history, he headed to law school.

00:06:12.100 Later, he was commissioned as a U.S. Navy JAG officer.

00:06:15.700 A friend once told The New Yorker DeSantis was inspired to join the armed forces

00:06:19.480 after watching the film A Few Good Men.

00:06:22.400 I want the truth!

00:06:23.760 You can't handle the truth!

00:06:25.840 The truth for a young officer DeSantis was love was in the air.

00:06:30.120 He met his wife, Casey, at a golf driving range.

00:06:33.400 So I kept looking over my shoulder because I wanted, you know,

00:06:35.800 the bucket of balls that somebody had left because my swing was so terrible.

00:06:38.820 He thinks I'm looking at him.

00:06:40.200 Long story short, we start to talking, and that's how we met.

00:06:43.280 The couple married in 2009, out of all places, Disney World.

00:06:48.000 A choice of venue even he now sees as kind of ironic.

00:06:51.700 They had three children and an unexpected challenge.

00:06:54.400 In 2021, Casey was diagnosed with breast cancer.

00:06:58.860 Thanks to chemotherapy, radiation, surgeries, and a lot of prayer,

00:07:04.040 she's now cancer-free, a battle she fought with the governor by her side.

00:07:08.180 When I was diagnosed with cancer, and I was facing the battle for my life,

00:07:13.740 he was the dad who took care of my children when I couldn't.

00:07:17.860 He was there to pick me off of the ground when I literally could not stand.

00:07:21.900 He was there to fight for me when I didn't have the strength to fight for myself.

00:07:28.660 That is who Ron DeSantis is.

00:07:32.460 After his decisive re-election victory,

00:07:34.880 many expected an imminent presidential announcement.

00:07:37.600 By February, DeSantis was polling about 10 points behind President Trump,

00:07:41.820 who was blamed by some for the GOP's disappointing midterm results.

00:07:45.920 That is a searing indictment of the Republican Party.

00:07:48.800 And it's a huge loss for Trump.

00:07:51.380 Definitely not a Republican wave, that's for darn sure.

00:07:54.520 But DeSantis would wait months to declare his candidacy.

00:07:58.160 In May of 2023, he took the unusual step of foregoing a rally,

00:08:02.260 surrounded by his camera-ready family,

00:08:05.160 instead opting for the audio-only Twitter spaces.

00:08:09.220 The launch did not go as planned.

00:08:11.720 Well, it's certainly an incredible honor to have Governor DeSantis

00:08:15.380 make this stark announcement.

00:08:17.360 Months earlier, 40% of the GOP electorate backed DeSantis for president.

00:08:25.260 Today, his average is in the low 20s,

00:08:27.520 with Trump polling 25 to 40 points ahead.

00:08:31.040 His campaign is now launching a major reset.

00:08:34.200 The question remains, can he do it?

00:08:36.340 The governor definitely thinks he can.

00:08:42.380 Here's part one of my interview with Governor Ron DeSantis.

00:08:47.000 Thank you for doing this, Governor.

00:08:48.240 We appreciate it.

00:08:48.920 Sure.

00:08:49.360 So let's start with the news of the day.

00:08:51.040 This week, we saw the plea agreement between Hunter Biden and the DOJ fall apart.

00:08:56.040 In court, the judge noted that the agreement as written could give him sweeping immunity

00:09:00.280 for all sorts of charges, including his foreign business deals.

00:09:05.260 This comes on the heels of two IRS whistleblowers coming forward to say that the DOJ repeatedly

00:09:10.040 intervened in their investigation and undermined it.

00:09:13.160 What does all of this tell you about the state of our Department of Justice?

00:09:17.020 Well, I'll tell you, just give the judge credit.

00:09:18.820 I mean, I thought the fix was in on this thing.

00:09:20.660 I mean, I thought that this would end up going, sweetheart deal.

00:09:23.260 And then they just kind of move on and say, oh, no, we did deal with Hunter.

00:09:26.820 You know, we're not we're not targeting or we're not we don't have two separate standards.

00:09:30.480 So she's really forced this issue.

00:09:32.500 So I think that that's a good thing.

00:09:34.300 But this Department of Justice, they have a lack of curiosity.

00:09:38.260 Anytime there's incriminating information about somebody that's connected to the D.C.

00:09:42.660 ruling class, and we see that over and over again.

00:09:45.900 And and so in that sense, I think it's they're likely going to try to figure out a way to

00:09:50.900 to not hold him fully accountable on this.

00:09:53.680 And that's sad.

00:09:54.860 But but I do not expect Merrick Garland to want to press hard against Hunter.

00:09:58.860 I know you've got thoughts on the Department of Justice and how to get to the root of the

00:10:02.380 problem there.

00:10:03.280 This really concerns a lot of Republicans.

00:10:05.600 I mean, how do you even begin?

00:10:07.040 It's it's got to be so much more complicated than getting rid of the guy at the top.

00:10:10.600 True.

00:10:11.080 But you got to understand, OK, how did we get here?

00:10:12.820 You know, we have a weaponized FBI and Justice Department.

00:10:15.900 That obviously is not supposed to happen.

00:10:17.760 But I think part of the reason it's happened is because for decades, presidents of both

00:10:21.940 parties have bought into the canard that the DOJ and FBI are, quote, independent.

00:10:26.620 Well, if you're independent, that means you're not accountable.

00:10:28.800 So they would say, oh, the president can't get involved in those agencies.

00:10:31.400 They're independent.

00:10:32.020 They're separate.

00:10:32.820 So they've been able to basically do what they wanted to for many, many decades.

00:10:36.620 And so our founding fathers would have said, if you have sources of power and power accumulates

00:10:42.140 and there's not constitutional accountability, human nature being what it is, they will abuse

00:10:47.680 the power.

00:10:48.320 So like the founders would not have been surprised to see what ends up happening.

00:10:52.300 So the first thing you got to do is president say you are not independent agencies.

00:10:55.760 You answer to the elected president of the United States.

00:10:59.120 If the FBI is investigating moms going to school board meetings, those FBI agents should be fired.

00:11:06.000 If they're colluding with big tech to censor speech, they're fired.

00:11:09.320 If the Department of Justice won't go after BLM rioters, then you hold them accountable.

00:11:15.040 So you have to lean in and be part of that.

00:11:17.080 That is totally appropriate.

00:11:18.800 There's nothing wrong.

00:11:19.540 The D.C. people will freak out about that because they want that to be their little playpen.

00:11:23.880 They don't want a president to come in and hold them accountable.

00:11:26.940 So just understanding how that works, I think, takes us a long way.

00:11:30.180 You do need a new FBI director.

00:11:32.160 You do need an attorney general has backbone that knows if you're cleaning house, you're going

00:11:36.840 to face blowback from the Washington Post and CNN.

00:11:40.540 They are not going to like you.

00:11:41.960 So when you go in a position like that, if you want to be liked by official Washington,

00:11:45.960 you're not going to be able to get the job done.

00:11:48.200 So you just got to understand.

00:11:49.460 I also think we need to break up parts of these agencies and parcel them out in other parts

00:11:53.860 of the country.

00:11:54.800 I mean, take the Civil Rights Division, put it in Oklahoma.

00:11:57.540 Take some of these others, put it in there.

00:11:59.040 I think you would end up not having a situation where 99 percent of the people donate to Democrats.

00:12:05.280 I think it would be much more representative, and I think it would get out of just the toxic

00:12:09.460 D.C. climate.

00:12:11.020 But we need a major, major house cleaning.

00:12:13.940 The only way you can do that is if you're disciplined, focused as president, and you

00:12:18.080 are setting the agenda for these agencies to follow.

00:12:20.780 Now, speaking of government agencies, you told Clay Travis this week that you would consider

00:12:25.500 making RFK Jr. the head of the CDC or the FDA.

00:12:28.360 Was that real?

00:12:29.320 I think that headline misquoted what I said.

00:12:32.040 He asked me about RFK Jr. for VP because there's chatter on our side about doing that.

00:12:37.140 And I said no, because ultimately he's a liberal.

00:12:39.660 We agree on Fauci.

00:12:41.480 We agree on the medical swamp and how pharma has taken FDA captive.

00:12:46.620 So we are going to clean house on that.

00:12:48.620 I've said that from the beginning.

00:12:49.860 I mean, we're going to drain the medical swamp in D.C.

00:12:52.540 So it wouldn't be he would be the head of CDC.

00:12:54.700 That would be a doctor or a Ph.D.

00:12:56.700 But I'm going to have probably a task force to go in there, hold people accountable for

00:13:01.940 COVID, hold people accountable for what things are happening.

00:13:05.040 So it would be more in that role that I'd want to get a bipartisan group of people together

00:13:09.360 who understand the problem, understand the federal government's COVID response was a

00:13:14.780 disaster that hurt people, that hurt this country.

00:13:17.720 We're still feeling the effects of it now with the kids who were locked out of school.

00:13:21.600 The high prices, we would not have had the inflation that we had had they not done the

00:13:26.320 Fauci lockdowns and the CARES Act and all this other stuff.

00:13:29.560 So it was more in that context.

00:13:31.220 So for the CDC and FDA, we will have doctor, Ph.D. type.

00:13:35.560 But there are going to be people like a Jay Bhattacharya from Stanford who was right on

00:13:39.980 COVID, not going to be some of these people that are just part of this revolving door.

00:13:44.220 OK, so not the head, part of a bipartisan task force, possibly.

00:13:47.840 Yeah, yeah.

00:13:48.360 I think the word I use is like, you know, let's sick him on these agencies, you know,

00:13:52.760 to hold them accountable.

00:13:54.000 And that would be part of being kind of outside the agency and getting answers and bringing

00:13:58.720 accountability to bear.

00:13:59.980 We will absolutely do that.

00:14:01.380 That needs to be done.

00:14:02.700 I think I'm really the only candidate that's even talking about that on the Republican side.

00:14:06.760 But I just don't think we can just sweep under the rug what happened during COVID.

00:14:11.360 And it's so personal for me because Florida, we fought back against that.

00:14:14.180 And, you know, we took the arrows for that, which is fine.

00:14:16.280 But I think that if we don't hold them accountable, they are going to do it again.

00:14:21.440 They think that they did.

00:14:22.680 They don't think they did anything wrong.

00:14:24.740 And I don't think we can do that.

00:14:26.540 So accountability means this will never happen again.

00:14:29.840 Unfortunately, this week, Mitch McConnell suffered a medical incident in front of the

00:14:33.880 microphones, made a lot of news.

00:14:35.480 Now we've learned that he collapsed at least one other time in recent history.

00:14:57.220 He's 81 years old.

00:14:58.680 We've seen some problems with other politicians around that age, including our current president.

00:15:03.380 What does this tell you, if anything, about the dangers or the risks in electing people

00:15:08.440 in their 80s to serve?

00:15:10.380 Yeah, look, it used to not be that way.

00:15:12.320 I mean, used to, you know, you kind of serve in your prime and then pass the baton to the

00:15:16.760 next generation.

00:15:17.740 And I think this generation has not really been as willing to do that.

00:15:22.200 Look, I think that we need, you know, one of the reasons I'm running compared to Biden,

00:15:26.040 I mean, my gosh, we need energy in the executive.

00:15:28.440 You know, we need some vigor, some vitality.

00:15:31.000 And when I go in on day one, like we will spit nails starting January 20th, 2025.

00:15:35.900 I mean, it'll be day after day after day.

00:15:37.740 We're gonna have all the executive orders written before we take office.

00:15:41.200 All the legislation we want will be done.

00:15:43.520 We'll have thousands of appointees to send to the Senate for confirmation.

00:15:47.280 We're not gonna miss a beat.

00:15:48.600 And we're gonna take advantage of every opportunity.

00:15:50.980 But you've gotta be, you've gotta be vigorous.

00:15:53.280 You've gotta have energy to be able to do that.

00:15:55.620 So I think the American people, I do think they're ready to kind of say, okay, you know,

00:16:00.100 let's try the next generation.

00:16:01.780 You think about, you know, Joe Biden, you're basically half his age.

00:16:05.740 I mean, you're-

00:16:06.000 He got elected as a senator before I was even born.

00:16:08.880 I mean, think about how long, you know, he's been around.

00:16:11.400 And clearly, you know, you just watch him.

00:16:13.900 And it's not good for our country to have a president that's floundering around like that.

00:16:18.700 It doesn't project strength to our adversaries.

00:16:21.460 It doesn't inspire confidence in our allies.

00:16:23.640 And I think Americans look and, you know, they want to see a president that they can

00:16:27.760 have confidence in.

00:16:29.180 And Biden is just not that with how he's been behaving.

00:16:32.840 Let's talk about 2024.

00:16:34.900 Right now, according to the Real Clear Politics average of most polls, you're any place from

00:16:39.480 30 to 40 points behind Donald Trump.

00:16:42.040 The other candidates catching up to you in Iowa and South Carolina.

00:16:45.760 Your campaign losing a lot of money, according to the reports.

00:16:48.580 And you just fired one third of your staff.

00:16:51.300 So what happened?

00:16:52.160 Well, no, look, I think that, you know, it's not a national primary.

00:16:56.260 You know, if you go into these early states, you know, we are doing very, very well in

00:17:00.100 places like Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina.

00:17:02.660 And that's really what it's all about.

00:17:04.620 In terms of the campaign, you know, we raise more money than both Joe Biden and Donald Trump.

00:17:09.840 Are you spent more?

00:17:10.600 I mean, you're done.

00:17:11.180 No, we spent less than Trump.

00:17:12.100 But still, as a leader, you know, I have a commander's intent, focus on early states.

00:17:18.320 It's not a national primary.

00:17:20.120 If my organization was not following commander's intent, then I've got to make the change to

00:17:24.240 make sure we're doing, you know, what we're doing.

00:17:26.480 So we've done that.

00:17:27.660 And, you know, you're going to see more and more in the early states because I think that

00:17:30.360 that's ultimately what it is.

00:17:31.500 I also understand we've tried to use this early period to put the building blocks in

00:17:36.520 place to be able to turn out people on caucus night, to be able to turn out people for the

00:17:41.000 New Hampshire primary.

00:17:42.200 Right now, over the summer, voters are not making decisions about who they're going to

00:17:46.940 support finally.

00:17:48.660 I mean, this is kind of like name ID and all this other stuff, who's in the news.

00:17:51.860 So we're doing the things on the ground that I think you need to do to be able to win.

00:17:55.520 I can tell you when we're on the ground in these places, you know, we've gotten an incredible

00:17:59.380 response.

00:18:00.100 We've had more legislators in Iowa, New Hampshire endorse us than any other candidate and probably

00:18:05.640 all the other candidates combined, because I think they see that we would be able to be

00:18:09.880 a strong candidate against Joe Biden.

00:18:12.020 They want to see someone at the top of the ticket that's going to lift up the legislative

00:18:15.420 candidates.

00:18:16.280 And a lot of them have viewed me as that guy.

00:18:18.840 Well, what do you make?

00:18:19.440 I mean, the campaign itself has said it needed a reset and that it's doing a reset right now.

00:18:23.920 Are you saying there haven't been a problem?

00:18:25.580 But that's a process part.

00:18:27.640 That's not about message and that's not about getting out there with voters.

00:18:32.280 You know, that's about how you're applying resources to the campaign headquarters versus

00:18:36.260 the early states.

00:18:37.300 So that's been taken care of.

00:18:39.260 But ultimately, that is not what's going to be determinative in the race.

00:18:43.600 What's going to be determinative in the race is, you know, we need someone that can beat

00:18:46.940 Joe Biden.

00:18:47.720 We need somebody that's going to be a strong leader that has a record of success.

00:18:51.060 We need someone that's actually going to get this stuff done.

00:18:54.060 We talk about things like the border.

00:18:55.860 We talk about things like, you know, the economy.

00:18:58.200 We talk about things like dealing with, say, the medical bureaucracy.

00:19:02.240 But we actually have to bring this to fruition.

00:19:04.500 And what I bring is someone in Florida.

00:19:06.200 Everything I said I would do, we delivered on.

00:19:09.160 And in fact, most people over promise and under deliver.

00:19:12.620 We made bold promises and we over delivered on our promises.

00:19:16.320 And so that's the type of leader they'll get with me.

00:19:18.180 What do you make of the polls that show, including Monmouth yesterday,

00:19:21.780 showing that 69 percent of Republican voters think that Trump is the most

00:19:25.860 electable candidate running right now in the GOP, that he's the most likely to beat Joe Biden?

00:19:30.260 That was always one of your best arguments, that you were more electable than Trump.

00:19:33.680 Well, I mean, I think if you look at these, look, I take the polls with a grain of salt.

00:19:37.700 But if you look at polls for general election in the key states like Georgia, Arizona,

00:19:42.900 I beat Biden, Trump loses to Biden.

00:19:45.960 I mean, that's been very consistent in those.

00:19:47.640 And if you can't win Georgia, you can't win the presidential election.

00:19:51.460 I'd also point out, he ran in Florida in 2020, won by three.

00:19:55.900 I won Florida by 20 in 2022.

00:19:58.960 And so we were able to make inroads, winning 60 plus percent of Hispanic voters.

00:20:03.960 We won a majority of female voters.

00:20:06.140 We won independence by 18 percent.

00:20:08.320 At the end of the day, you can't do this with just Republicans.

00:20:11.120 And we did very well with Republicans.

00:20:12.720 I mean, I think we won 97 percent of Republicans, but you've got to be able to get independence.

00:20:17.780 And I think we have an opportunity to do like we did in Florida, get some of these Democrats who realize their party has gone off the rocker on things like education and parents' rights and crime.

00:20:28.060 And so we have a chance to do that.

00:20:30.520 I just think there's too many voters out there.

00:20:32.940 They just will never vote for Trump under any circumstance.

00:20:35.920 On the subject of independence, a recent CNN poll showed that right-leaning independents favor Trump over you by 27 points.

00:20:42.540 Independent primary voters surveyed by YouGov a month ago said they plan to vote for Trump over you by a 29-point margin.

00:20:48.480 So what's the evidence that you have that independents favor you?

00:20:52.400 I'm not known nationally as much as Trump is.

00:20:55.540 I mean, so that's why you run a campaign.

00:20:57.360 That's why you go out and do that.

00:20:58.840 That's why we have things like debates.

00:21:00.620 That's why you're in the early states, because you've got to introduce yourself to voters.

00:21:04.980 You've got to let them know what your accomplishments are.

00:21:07.480 And you've got to let them know what you plan to do for the country.

00:21:10.300 And if that just happened the day you announced, then there would be no need to have to run any of these campaigns.

00:21:16.100 And so, you know, we're still six months away from Iowa, and we're going to put a lot of work in between now and then.

00:21:21.800 So let's talk about that.

00:21:22.620 You do have to let them know.

00:21:23.520 You have to get out there.

00:21:24.820 And you haven't been going out there that much.

00:21:26.960 You've been going mostly to conservative safe spaces.

00:21:29.840 But now you seem to be shifting a little bit more.

00:21:32.000 I saw you on CNN recently.

00:21:33.480 Now you're sitting with me.

00:21:34.600 I'm a right-leaning independent.

00:21:36.260 So is this a change in your media strategy?

00:21:38.280 And are we going to be seeing more of you out there?

00:21:40.300 Well, what I've typically done is, you know, I do media availabilities all the time.

00:21:44.560 I've probably done more press conferences as governor than any governor in history.

00:21:48.100 And all these people can come and ask me questions.

00:21:50.400 And so we're going to continue to do that on the campaign trail.

00:21:53.800 You know, we may sit down for some more interviews as we continue to go.

00:21:57.700 I think it's good.

00:21:58.540 I mean, I think people like to hear directly.

00:22:01.340 But the idea that I was not engaging with hostile media, you know, that's just not been true.

00:22:06.160 In fact, that's kind of how I got known in Florida.

00:22:07.680 As governor, you did.

00:22:08.720 As governor, you were fighting the COVID wars and all of that.

00:22:11.580 Yes.

00:22:11.860 But since you've actually declared, it seems like you've been in a conservative bunker.

00:22:15.180 Well, we've done, you know, we have a traveling press.

00:22:18.020 You know, we do the media availabilities.

00:22:20.220 We're going to continue to do that and probably do more as time goes by.

00:22:24.080 Don't you think that would help you?

00:22:25.180 Don't you think having a viral moment with, you know, somebody in the far left who hates you is going to be helpful to you?

00:22:30.500 It could.

00:22:30.860 I mean, it definitely has helped me in the past.

00:22:33.120 And I think a lot of times they are in their own cocoon.

00:22:36.220 And so they're trying to propagate narratives.

00:22:38.520 But these narratives are easy to deconstruct.

00:22:41.160 And so if you just know your stuff, you know, you can you can handle that very easily.

00:22:44.920 All right.

00:22:45.360 Now, one of the criticisms I hear about you from people who watch and listen to my show is he's too establishment.

00:22:51.160 Right.

00:22:51.340 You've heard you've heard Trump say globalists, the rhino, all the bodies to establishment.

00:22:55.560 They think that you're too close to the Paul Ryan, Karl Rove wing of the party and that if they elect you, you'll be too beholden to the big money donors inside the Republican Party.

00:23:06.420 The numbers for that is what?

00:23:08.280 Well, I mean, this is what my listeners feel.

00:23:10.400 But I'll give you one.

00:23:11.900 Only 17 percent of your donations second quarter came from small dollar donors.

00:23:16.280 Eighty two percent of Trump's did.

00:23:17.880 So you can see why they're worried that you're going to be beholden to these GOP elites and not worried about the grassroots concerns.

00:23:24.440 So, first of all, I have not spoken to Paul Ryan since I've been governor.

00:23:28.100 So that's many, many years.

00:23:29.440 I've met Karl Rove once.

00:23:31.080 That's all just totally fabricated out of whole cloth.

00:23:34.580 I also have a record as governor of Florida.

00:23:37.620 I beat Disney on the parents' rights.

00:23:41.080 They're a pretty powerful financial institution in the state of Florida.

00:23:45.280 We stood up to the global elites, not just national establishment, international establishment, against the COVID lockdowns.

00:23:54.040 We stood up.

00:23:55.000 I mean, I've restored the Everglades in Florida.

00:23:57.420 I had to stand up against the big sugar companies who had dominated Florida for a long time.

00:24:02.440 We've stood up to big pharma, not just by trying to get cheaper prescription drugs.

00:24:06.800 I actually have a grand jury impaneled to investigate misrepresentations that they made about the COVID-19 vaccine.

00:24:15.520 So I've stood up to these people more than anybody else has done.

00:24:20.140 How many establishment Republicans would have sent illegal aliens to Martha's Vineyard?

00:24:25.620 They just wouldn't have done it.

00:24:27.040 So I think a lot of that is fabricated.

00:24:30.800 And look, I have the second best small dollar operation in Republican politics.

00:24:37.100 I mean, Trump was president.

00:24:38.360 So I mean, of course, he's gonna have a better operation.

00:24:40.800 But ours is growing and growing.

00:24:42.600 And if you look at the new donors, these smaller ones, 30% of ours never donated to Republican politics before they came to me.

00:24:51.460 So we're bringing more people in and we're going to continue to do well with that.

00:24:55.220 The other question about Trump, and then I'll move on to some more substantive issues.

00:24:59.900 He says this is a disloyal act.

00:25:01.840 And I know you've spoken to that before.

00:25:03.380 But he says specifically that you got elected governor because of him, that you were dead in the race,

00:25:08.760 and that you, quote, came over and begged him for an endorsement with tears coming down from your eyes.

00:25:14.240 And do you believe that?

00:25:15.380 Is it true?

00:25:16.100 Do you believe that?

00:25:16.900 You tell me.

00:25:17.600 I mean, come on.

00:25:18.300 This was public.

00:25:20.140 I think we were on Air Force One.

00:25:21.640 I said, hey, I'm thinking about running.

00:25:22.780 Will you support me?

00:25:23.880 Will you tweet for me?

00:25:24.640 He's like, yeah, I'll tweet for you.

00:25:25.720 And that was it.

00:25:26.340 And that was all that.

00:25:27.100 But here's the thing.

00:25:29.700 Politicians have to earn support.

00:25:32.040 Nobody's entitled to support.

00:25:34.040 I'm loyal to my family.

00:25:35.760 I'm loyal to our Constitution.

00:25:37.320 And I'm loyal to God.

00:25:38.820 That is where my loyalty goes.

00:25:40.640 I'll work with politicians to try to advance what I believe is in the best interests of Florida and the country.

00:25:46.920 But at the end of the day, it's about who can get the job done.

00:25:50.860 And that's how I view it.

00:25:51.780 And it's interesting.

00:25:52.900 He doesn't say that about his own vice president running against him.

00:25:56.600 He doesn't say that about his ambassador to the U.N. running against him.

00:26:00.320 He doesn't say that about other people he endorsed in the past who are now running against him.

00:26:04.820 He only says it about me because I think he construes me as the only threat to his winning the nomination.

00:26:10.420 What about to the people who say it's not your turn?

00:26:12.620 It's still his turn.

00:26:13.520 He got screwed out of his first term by Russiagate and the impeachment.

00:26:17.060 He got an unfair shot at it second time around because of all the election shenanigans.

00:26:22.060 And that he deserves to have this next vote.

00:26:25.160 We're a republic.

00:26:25.860 We're not a monarchy.

00:26:26.820 It's nobody's turn.

00:26:27.780 You have every right to put yourself forward.

00:26:30.320 I believe at this point in history, 2024 is make or break for this country.

00:26:34.500 I'm not running to be president.

00:26:36.280 I'm running to do something as president for the country.

00:26:40.140 I think I'm the guy that can win the primary, win the general election, and then deliver on all of these things and do it for two terms, which I think is really important.

00:26:49.260 Because if you look, Trump's first term, he did a lot of good things.

00:26:52.520 Biden reversed almost everything on day one.

00:26:55.280 I think you do need two terms for this stuff to really, really stick.

00:26:58.500 And so I think that I'm the only guy that fits that bill.

00:27:01.280 So I have a responsibility to step up and offer myself for service.

00:27:04.740 Let's talk about Florida for one minute.

00:27:06.760 The Department of Education is in the news this week.

00:27:09.400 They issued new guidelines when it comes to teaching things like slavery.

00:27:13.600 They are teaching its innumerable horrors.

00:27:16.420 That's clear.

00:27:17.460 But they are also requiring teachers to instruct that, quote, slaves develop skills, which in some instances could be used for personal benefit.

00:27:25.280 As you know, the vice president made an emergency trip down here to Florida to say you were whitewashing history, that these are lies.

00:27:31.500 Even GOP presidential candidate Will Hurd, who was black, weighed in saying slavery was not a jobs program.

00:27:37.500 What's your response to all this?

00:27:38.720 Well, those standards were developed by African-American history scholars.

00:27:42.660 Many of them themselves were black.

00:27:44.880 And the point about developing skills was those skills were developed in spite of slavery, not because of slavery.

00:27:51.620 And that's what they're doing.

00:27:52.680 And then they're saying they had skills postbellum.

00:27:55.120 Then they would use those skills as freedmen.

00:27:57.540 And that's exactly what happened.

00:27:58.880 And there's actually been other courses.

00:28:00.900 So the AP African-American history.

00:28:03.240 So we had a kerfuffle on that earlier this year because there was a lot of the course was good.

00:28:08.680 But then they had part of it that was like Marxist studies.

00:28:11.060 And we said, no, we don't want the indoctrination.

00:28:13.380 So we got attacked because we stood up against that.

00:28:15.780 You won that.

00:28:16.460 We won it.

00:28:17.080 But in that course, they had the same basic teaching point about the skills that were developed.

00:28:24.860 And this is not something that was just made up out of whole cloth by our working group.

00:28:28.900 This is something that people have been talking about.

00:28:31.760 And this was all done in public.

00:28:33.160 It wasn't political.

00:28:34.340 Like, we didn't tell them what to do.

00:28:35.660 We said, you know, we're not doing critical race.

00:28:37.900 We're not doing a political agenda.

00:28:39.380 Just do the facts.

00:28:40.460 And they did a very thorough job.

00:28:42.340 I mean, if you look at all the things they're talking about.

00:28:44.560 But what do you think of Kamala Harris coming down here and trying to tell everybody that

00:28:47.540 you're lying, that you've decided to lie to the American public about slavery?

00:28:51.220 Well, the White House has been obsessed with us in Florida from the time they took office.

00:28:55.920 Clearly, they view us as a threat.

00:28:57.960 And so anything that they can do to try to ding us.

00:29:00.760 But I think in this case, people looked at it and they could tell she was lying and she

00:29:05.200 was demigodied.

00:29:06.120 I mean, this stuff was vetted.

00:29:08.000 This was all public.

00:29:09.340 People could do comments.

00:29:10.640 Everyone was praising what a thorough job they did.

00:29:13.780 Then all of a sudden, they cherry pick something, take it out of context, and then try to demagogue

00:29:18.840 it.

00:29:19.320 Because if you look at the entire standards, there is no way you can view those standards

00:29:24.320 and not come to any other conclusion that they are very, very honest about the injustice

00:29:29.760 of slavery.

00:29:30.900 And that's time and time again, you see through that.

00:29:33.640 So I think the thing that's instructive, though, is, okay, you have Harris doing this and Biden's

00:29:38.600 White House.

00:29:39.180 Because corporate media, if they're really truth tellers, if they're about holding the

00:29:44.060 powerful accountable, they would have pushed back on this.

00:29:47.260 They would have said, wait a minute.

00:29:48.600 That's not true.

00:29:49.240 They would have had Dr. Allen on to shoot it down.

00:29:52.460 And instead, they try to concoct the narrative even further and push it.

00:29:57.440 So I think people like Harris do it because they know they can get away with it with a lot

00:30:01.200 of our corporate press.

00:30:02.380 We had Dr. Allen on, and he said the teachers union was sitting there, lying there like snakes

00:30:07.380 in the grass at these meetings, not saying anything, not objecting to any of this until

00:30:11.280 after it became a controversy.

00:30:13.840 All right, let's shift and talk about Disney.

00:30:15.540 You mentioned them just a bit.

00:30:17.040 You, in my view, are pretty quick to use the power of the state against certain corporations

00:30:21.960 who you don't like these woke corporations.

00:30:23.600 Disney, after an attack to your Parental Rights and Education Act, Anheuser-Busch recently for

00:30:29.060 hurting the pension investments you said of Floridians with the whole Bud Light debacle.

00:30:34.080 Much as the base is angry at these woke corporations, and I get it, and I know you get it, aren't

00:30:38.740 you doing the very thing to these companies that conservatives are mad at left-wing leaders

00:30:44.200 for doing, using government to punish citizens for political wrong think?

00:30:48.480 No, not at all.

00:30:49.360 So taking Anheuser-Busch, I mean, we're not punishing them.

00:30:52.600 They departed from business practices by indulging in social activism.

00:30:57.780 That has caused a huge problem for their company, and their stock price has gone down.

00:31:02.940 Well, our pension fund in Florida holds Anheuser-Busch InBev stock.

00:31:08.480 So it's actually hurt teachers, it's hurt cops, it hurts firefighters who depend on that pension

00:31:14.520 fund.

00:31:15.420 Didn't you support the boycott against them?

00:31:17.080 No, I did, but that's just as a personal thing.

00:31:20.340 But I mean, we didn't have the state government necessarily putting power about it.

00:31:24.720 But as an American, I said, I'm not doing Anheuser, I'm not doing Bud Light.

00:31:28.560 But for this, we're defending the people that are beneficiaries of the pension.

00:31:33.600 When you go, look, the wokeness, yes, it's annoying.

00:31:37.020 Yes, when they're trying to throw an agenda down your throat, you don't like it.

00:31:40.080 But it does have an impact on the economy.

00:31:42.860 It has an impact on people who hold stock, and that's not just rich people, that's those

00:31:48.020 people.

00:31:48.740 So with InBev, they departed from their fiduciary duty, and so we're investigating the state.

00:31:53.980 How can you say they departed?

00:31:54.540 I'm not in favor of the Bud Light thing at all.

00:31:56.460 But how can you say they departed from their fiduciary duty?

00:31:58.740 They sent a beer can to this very controversial person, which upset the consumers, and the consumers

00:32:03.360 had their say.

00:32:04.340 But how is that a departure from their, and how does the state get involved in that?

00:32:07.580 How is that something that is helping their shareholders or helping their companies value?

00:32:13.960 But how is that for you to weigh in on?

00:32:15.780 Because I have people in Florida that were injured by the company's decline as a result

00:32:21.200 of that.

00:32:21.980 These are people that rely on the pension.

00:32:25.260 Disney is a different issue than this.

00:32:29.160 But we have to say companies should do their job.

00:32:32.800 If they depart from that and they harm people, then you have an opportunity to potentially

00:32:37.940 have recourse.

00:32:38.740 Now, Disney was an issue where they came after the state of Florida when we were doing fortifying

00:32:45.960 parental rights, saying at that time it was K through three, no gender ideology or any of

00:32:51.400 that in the schools.

00:32:52.620 And to me, that was not a huge leap.

00:32:55.540 I mean, that's common sense.

00:32:56.600 Why would you want to tell a second grader that they may have been born in the wrong

00:33:00.180 body?

00:33:00.460 That is happening around this country.

00:33:02.100 And we said in Florida, we're not.

00:33:03.400 So they came in against us.

00:33:05.360 And they're very powerful in Florida.

00:33:07.100 They usually get whatever they want.

00:33:08.600 So we stood up and we said, no, we're going to do what's best for students and parents.

00:33:13.260 We're not going to tout out at Disney.

00:33:15.140 Then after I signed the bill, they put out a statement saying they were going to make it

00:33:19.200 a mission to see that the bill was repealed or overturned in court.

00:33:23.360 So they said they were taking their corporate resources to basically attack parents' rights

00:33:28.340 in Florida and overturned, of course, state policy.

00:33:30.740 So we had to then make a decision.

00:33:32.780 And the legislature started saying, well, wait a minute.

00:33:35.680 Disney is getting these benefits that they've had for a long time.

00:33:38.600 Maybe we should reevaluate it.

00:33:40.080 And then when you looked at what they got, unbelievable arrangement that they had that

00:33:44.740 no other individual or no other company in the entire state enjoyed.

00:33:49.160 So Florida, for many decades ago, was joined at the hip with this one company.

00:33:54.360 They started going down the road of sexualizing children.

00:33:57.420 We just could not be joined at the hip with a company that was doing that.

00:34:01.760 That's antithetical to our values in Florida.

00:34:04.780 So what we said is, you don't get to control your own government.

00:34:08.120 You don't get to be exempt from laws and taxes.

00:34:10.720 You're going to live under the same laws as everybody else.

00:34:12.900 You're going to be treated like SeaWorld.

00:34:14.200 You're going to be treated like Universal.

00:34:15.380 So that's actually good policy that's taking away corporate welfare and putting everybody

00:34:20.580 on a level playing field.

00:34:22.140 But we could not be, I mean, I couldn't look in the mirror as a parent of a 6, 5, and 3-year-old

00:34:27.860 knowing that this company was getting benefits from, and these are not benefits I gave them.

00:34:33.540 This is many, many decades ago that they were doing that given the direction that they're

00:34:37.980 going with kids.

00:34:38.800 I draw the line at protecting kids.

00:34:40.940 We are going to protect our kids, and we will take on big corporations to do so.

00:34:45.200 So are you suggesting you would have done this irrespective of them criticizing and fighting

00:34:48.780 your Parents and Education Act?

00:34:50.520 I mean, that this had nothing to do with their stance on your law?

00:34:53.460 Well, obviously, they're supporting sexualizing kids in Florida schools.

00:34:57.640 I mean, they were putting their corporate weight behind ensuring that that could happen.

00:35:01.560 So of course that was a factor.

00:35:03.020 But another factor-

00:35:04.080 That's an admission that they were punished by you in part by the state for their political

00:35:08.300 viewpoint.

00:35:08.640 It's not a punishment.

00:35:10.060 So that was part of it.

00:35:11.360 Then they had the Zoom videos that were put out where these Disney executives were acknowledging

00:35:16.260 that they wanted to inject the sexualization into their programming.

00:35:20.380 Yes, I understand.

00:35:21.100 That's different, and that's less controversial.

00:35:23.380 Well, but I mean, but that was part of the decision where the legislature, the support to

00:35:28.320 maintain this arrangement just collapsed.

00:35:30.400 And we were in a situation where he said, okay, this is a company that's pursuing this direction

00:35:36.320 with respect to children.

00:35:38.020 That is fundamentally hostile to the state of Florida's policies.

00:35:42.100 Okay, but how is it not viewpoint discrimination?

00:35:44.780 We talked about 303 Creative, you and I privately, about the U.S. Supreme Court case that just came

00:35:49.900 down.

00:35:50.140 They held in that case, they reminded us that citizens in this country are free to speak

00:35:54.200 as they wish and not as the government demands.

00:35:56.420 So why can't Disney oppose your law and why can't they promote this agenda in their viewpoint

00:36:02.500 without being punished by the state?

00:36:04.700 They're not being punished.

00:36:06.180 We're just simply removing special benefits that they have had that really weren't justifiable.

00:36:11.160 They were worse off when it was done than they were before they spoke out.

00:36:14.700 Well, no.

00:36:15.200 I mean, it was, first of all, we didn't actually do anything to Disney.

00:36:18.240 There was a government that had been in place that they had effectively corrupted,

00:36:21.980 which was not the way it was supposed to be, by the way, if you look at how this started

00:36:26.180 in 68.

00:36:27.440 So we changed the governing structure, which really didn't even impact them directly.

00:36:32.740 They're just indirectly, they don't like it because, you know, they don't get to call

00:36:35.580 the shots anymore.

00:36:36.600 But we, they are not entitled to corporate welfare.

00:36:39.380 You do not have a constitutional right to corporate welfare.

00:36:42.020 I know that, but it's not about an entitlement.

00:36:43.760 It's not about entitlement.

00:36:44.380 If I go to my boss and I say, I, uh, you sexually harassed me, and then suddenly he reduces

00:36:50.100 my salary from 200,000 to 100,000, that's retaliation.

00:36:53.700 I am worse off.

00:36:54.640 And it's not a defense to say, well, everybody else at the company was getting 100,000.

00:36:58.680 You've reduced my circumstances.

00:36:59.940 You've punished me.

00:37:01.400 No, but that's, that's a, that's an employer employee relationship.

00:37:03.940 I think that that's much different.

00:37:05.300 But this is the state taking away a benefit.

00:37:07.140 But, but your, but your position is basically that Florida should be forced to subsidize

00:37:12.580 Disney regardless of how it's going to use those subsidies so that they can weaponize

00:37:17.260 the subsidies they get from the state and turn it against state policy.

00:37:21.780 Why would we want to subsidize that behavior?

00:37:23.740 Why should Florida taxpayers have to underwrite that?

00:37:26.640 But I don't want a president Gavin Newsom doing this to conservative companies or companies

00:37:30.760 who have a more conservative viewpoint.

00:37:32.780 Well, here's what I would say.

00:37:33.800 I don't think there's any arrangement in America that mirrored the arrangement Disney

00:37:38.520 had in Florida for many, many decades.

00:37:41.500 I mean, I think it was a unique situation where we just could not justify how could you

00:37:46.820 be exempt from laws that every other company in business has to follow an individual?

00:37:51.740 How could you be exempt from taxes?

00:37:53.480 How could you rack up municipal debt on your own when they didn't have it?

00:37:58.200 So, and they, you know, they had powers to build their own nuclear power plant.

00:38:01.900 They had extraterritorial eminent domain.

00:38:04.480 I get it, I get it.

00:38:04.740 They had a lot of that.

00:38:05.940 If you lived in a subdivision outside of Disney, they actually had the right to seize your property

00:38:12.260 if they wanted to expand beyond the district.

00:38:14.820 So this was something that was just totally, totally unjustifiable.

00:38:18.640 But it lived on in Florida for many, many decades because they were just so powerful.

00:38:23.140 But take apart all of the stuff with the sexualization of children, all that.

00:38:28.020 Just on the merits, was this an arrangement that was justifiable?

00:38:32.080 And the answer is no.

00:38:33.700 But no one really questioned it in the legislature because they enjoyed a lot of political sway.

00:38:38.760 Let's move on.

00:38:40.440 What's your plan to protect women and girls from men who claim they are trans trying to

00:38:45.980 get into our spaces and our sports?

00:38:47.580 Well, in Florida, we've done all of that.

00:38:50.680 So girls' sports, women's sports is protected.

00:38:53.880 Men can't be injecting themselves into those competitions.

00:38:57.520 It takes away opportunities for girls and for women athletes.

00:39:00.680 And we did that years ago here as governor.

00:39:03.500 We've also protected the locker rooms and the bathrooms so that men are not going into women's

00:39:08.980 very sensitive places.

00:39:11.920 And I think that that should be the rule, period.

00:39:14.820 We will look within the constitutional authority of the federal government.

00:39:18.900 We'll look to do the same for women's sports and those issues nationally.

00:39:23.140 Title IX?

00:39:23.800 Yeah, I think so.

00:39:25.520 There was an ad recently released that was controversial online that portrayed you as

00:39:31.120 a warrior against certain these LGBTQ issues, and Trump is soft on them.

00:39:35.980 The New York Times reports that you were actually behind that ad, your campaign.

00:39:39.080 You definitely promoted it and defended it.

00:39:40.620 But do you think that Trump is soft on this issue, the issue of trans rights versus women's

00:39:46.740 rights?

00:39:47.480 Well, I think that what was pointed out there was he had been a pioneer in injecting men

00:39:53.420 into women's competitions because he was doing that with beauty pageants way, way back in

00:39:57.800 the day, 10 years ago or whatnot.

00:40:00.440 And then he's also opposed things like protecting locker rooms and bathrooms when he was running.

00:40:05.680 He said North Carolina shouldn't have done that when they did it.

00:40:08.500 So that, I think, is not where our voters are on that.

00:40:11.660 I think our voters believe that standing up for women and girls means protecting their

00:40:17.300 right to compete with integrity and protecting things like bathrooms and locker rooms.

00:40:21.700 And so he just had been very clear on that issue.

00:40:24.600 And I don't think that's where our voters are.

00:40:26.480 Do you think he may have changed?

00:40:27.880 I mean, 15 versus now is a lifetime on the issue of the trans rights thing.

00:40:31.880 You know, I don't know.

00:40:33.480 I mean, I think that, you know, it wasn't just that, you know, he had kind of a flippant

00:40:38.380 opinion on it.

00:40:39.080 I mean, you know, he was really one of the leaders in making this a big issue culturally

00:40:44.140 and nationally.

00:40:45.540 Speaking of that campaign ad, one of the complaints I've heard about the DeSantis team is they're

00:40:50.620 too online.

00:40:52.020 There was the Twitter spaces launch.

00:40:53.540 Yes, but it was it's more about the petty Twitter squabbles that we see some connected

00:40:59.760 with your campaign having that will take up three days of the news cycle that don't really

00:41:03.620 amount to anything substantive for the voters in Iowa and elsewhere.

00:41:07.120 Is that a fair point?

00:41:08.380 So we have people that are doing this rapid response.

00:41:11.760 I'm not putting my time into it at all.

00:41:13.760 I mean, you know, they're going and going back and forth.

00:41:16.260 You know, there's kind of a battle that does online.

00:41:18.340 I am not somebody who's who's following that very closely.

00:41:21.580 It's just not my cup of tea.

00:41:23.340 And so I'm following more about, you know, what's happening.

00:41:25.720 But you're the commander.

00:41:26.200 No, I get it.

00:41:27.000 But I mean, but you know, we have people shooting at us too online every single day.

00:41:31.300 I mean, the fact that you asked about people like Paul Ryan, you know, that was that's

00:41:35.320 all a manufactured online controversy instead of attacks that have no basis in reality.

00:41:42.640 And so there is need to kind of push back on some of this stuff.

00:41:46.240 So I wouldn't say it's too online.

00:41:48.100 I think that there's a place for that.

00:41:49.760 But ultimately, you know, the people in Iowa and New Hampshire, you know, they're not following

00:41:54.060 the latest Twitter war.

00:41:55.180 They're following what's going on in their lives.

00:41:57.060 And I'm very cognizant of that.

00:41:59.080 You recently signed a six week abortion ban in Florida that is popular with Republican

00:42:04.800 voters.

00:42:05.740 The majority support that.

00:42:07.220 But you haven't yet said whether you would support doing that at the federal level.

00:42:11.640 Will you say so now?

00:42:13.180 So our bill in Florida protects unborn when there's a detectable heartbeat.

00:42:17.900 You know, the heartbeat bill is something that is rooted in science and medicine.

00:42:22.560 And this is the most significant pro-life protections that we've ever done in the state

00:42:27.160 of Florida in the modern history.

00:42:28.940 So I've been a pro-life governor.

00:42:30.760 I'll be a pro-life president.

00:42:32.520 And I will come down on the side of life.

00:42:35.000 We are running on doing things that I know I can accomplish.

00:42:38.320 So we're gonna end the abortion tourism that is in the military.

00:42:42.840 It's an egregious waste of taxpayer dollars, no funding for abortion.

00:42:47.960 We're gonna ensure that the Supreme Court remains so that Dobbs is not overturned.

00:42:52.600 And I'm gonna be a leader with the bully pulpit, you know, to help local communities and states

00:42:58.100 advance the cause of life.

00:42:59.720 But I really believe right now in our society, it's really a bottom-up movement.

00:43:03.880 And that's where we've had most success, Iowa, South Carolina, Florida.

00:43:07.540 And I think you're gonna continue to see a lot of good battles there.

00:43:10.480 So you're not in support of a federal law?

00:43:12.900 I'll always come down on the side of life.

00:43:15.840 And, you know, I'm proud to be pro-life and I'll be a pro-life president.

00:43:19.100 But if you do that, I mean, if you sign a federal law, you know, making a six-week standard,

00:43:24.600 the law across the country, aren't we just then gonna get a Democrat administration

00:43:28.720 with Democrat Congress that reverses or that codifies Roe and back and forth?

00:43:32.580 Why isn't it just a states' rights issue?

00:43:34.160 Well, clearly, the states have, I mean, I think the states have the primary jurisdiction

00:43:39.240 of it.

00:43:39.700 I do think-

00:43:39.980 They do, but if there's a federal law, that's gonna change.

00:43:41.780 Well, I think there is.

00:43:42.320 I think there is a federal interest.

00:43:43.780 But I think the reality is that, you know, the country's divided on it.

00:43:47.680 You know, you're not gonna see Wisconsin mimic what Texas has.

00:43:51.600 Which is an argument against a federal law.

00:43:53.100 You're not gonna see Pennsylvania mimic what Georgia has.

00:43:56.040 Well, but I mean, we're divided.

00:43:58.120 I mean, who's, are these things like on the potential thing?

00:44:02.500 I haven't seen Congress move that.

00:44:04.240 I don't have much confidence that Congress is gonna do anything meaningful in this regard.

00:44:08.980 And so in a federalist system, you know, you have different opinions and that stuff gets

00:44:13.380 filtered out.

00:44:14.160 But clearly, right now, you are gonna see different states go in different directions.

00:44:18.800 And I understand that.

00:44:19.660 That'll happen until and unless we have a federal law on it.

00:44:22.880 On immigration, the southern border is a mess.

00:44:25.160 It's a mess.

00:44:26.300 In 2022, we had 2.4 million encounters with migrants trying to cross the border illegally.

00:44:34.040 Under Trump in 2020, it was 2 million fewer.

00:44:37.140 It was 450,000.

00:44:39.100 So you've been somewhat critical of Trump on the border, saying he did not complete that wall,

00:44:43.720 he promised.

00:44:44.380 But what specifically would you do differently than Biden and Trump to secure that border?

00:44:49.400 Day one, we'll declare it a national emergency.

00:44:51.600 I'll mobilize all resources, including the military, to go.

00:44:55.380 We're gonna stop the invasion.

00:44:56.880 We're not gonna entertain the bogus asylum claims.

00:44:59.520 We are gonna actually build the wall, because I do think that's important.

00:45:02.960 But we're gonna have both Border Patrol and military authorized to use deadly force against

00:45:08.480 the Mexican drug cartels who were infiltrating our country.

00:45:11.700 I was actually down in Arizona.

00:45:12.820 There actually was a piece of the wall there.

00:45:14.920 And I go, and it's like big steel beams.

00:45:18.540 And these guys are working on it.

00:45:19.820 I'm like, what are you doing?

00:45:20.420 They're like, well, the cartels cut through the wall.

00:45:23.000 And then they bring in drugs.

00:45:24.760 And basically, Biden just lets it happen.

00:45:27.400 So for us, what I've said, if you're doing that, you got a backpack full of fentanyl on

00:45:31.900 and you're trying to scurry in, it's gonna be the last thing you do.

00:45:34.760 You are going to end up stone cold dead, because I'm gonna let our folks do their job.

00:45:39.340 And if you just do that a few times, you are gonna see a major, major change.

00:45:44.160 But here's the thing, tens of thousands of people are dying in our country because of

00:45:50.300 fentanyl overdose.

00:45:51.340 You can't go to a community in this country-

00:45:53.780 Number one cause of death for young people.

00:45:55.060 Without running into a mother who's lost a child.

00:45:58.080 And we're just supposed to just shrug our shoulders and let that happen.

00:46:01.680 So we're gonna lean in against the cartels in ways that other presidents have not been able

00:46:06.220 to do, that is going to make an impact.

00:46:09.000 But we cannot allow this poison to just keep coming into our country and killing our young

00:46:15.380 people.

00:46:16.160 On the economy, it's the number one issue.

00:46:18.220 Number one still for American voters.

00:46:20.240 Inflation still remains high.

00:46:21.740 People are really suffering.

00:46:23.220 You're not a rich man.

00:46:24.120 You could be with your education and your background, but you've been a public servant.

00:46:28.420 Milk right now, $4 a gallon.

00:46:31.060 Organic milk, $9 a gallon.

00:46:33.640 It's unbelievable.

00:46:34.740 So what are you gonna do about it?

00:46:35.820 Well, first of all, what's the root of the high prices?

00:46:38.720 The root is government.

00:46:40.460 This is a government-induced inflation crisis.

00:46:44.540 Starting in March of 2020 with the $2 trillion CARES Act, the Fed printing money.

00:46:50.300 December 20, you had $2.2 trillion out the door for Biden when he came in.

00:46:55.080 Biden did.

00:46:56.120 American Rescue Plan, another $2 trillion.

00:46:58.740 So when you borrow, print, and spend trillions and trillions of dollars like that, you are going

00:47:05.040 to get inflation.

00:47:06.720 That's a Milton Friedman kind of, he said, 18 months after this happens, you're gonna get

00:47:11.600 it.

00:47:11.880 So that's what we've had.

00:47:12.760 And then you had the Federal Reserve.

00:47:14.520 Not only did they print all this money, they said, oh, it's transitory.

00:47:17.540 Don't worry about the inflation.

00:47:18.940 It started going.

00:47:19.860 So now they've been jacking up interest rates because they got behind the ball.

00:47:23.920 So now the average person to buy a home that you can't afford a new home, if you make the

00:47:29.600 median income compared to the median home price with the interest rates where they are, it

00:47:34.420 does not work financially.

00:47:36.140 It's harder to afford a car.

00:47:37.680 And of course, daily expenses like groceries.

00:47:39.800 So you have to rein in Congress's spending, which has caused this.

00:47:44.400 You have to increase and expand our domestic energy production.

00:47:48.800 Biden got rid of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, basically.

00:47:52.200 That kind of kept things.

00:47:53.260 It would have been worse had he not done that, put us in a vulnerable position with fuel.

00:47:57.600 But if we open this up and realize we cannot do a Green New Deal, that is gonna help impact

00:48:04.080 inflation.

00:48:05.100 We also need to grow more.

00:48:06.760 So right now, we're settling into persistently high prices with a very sluggish economy.

00:48:13.480 And our growth rate over the past decade has been anemic.

00:48:16.720 So we got to get growing again.

00:48:18.360 And I think that means getting the bureaucracy and government off the backs of small businesses.

00:48:24.880 More with Governor Ron DeSantis right after this.

00:48:28.020 We'll be right back.

00:48:31.980 Here's part two of my interview with Governor Ron DeSantis.

00:48:36.540 Trump could be indicted again today over the January 6th behavior.

00:48:42.000 How worried should he be?

00:48:44.160 Well, here's what I would say about this Department of Justice.

00:48:48.040 I'm pledged to end the weaponization of government.

00:48:51.160 I think that they have weaponized these agencies in ways that really hurts the cause of freedom.

00:48:58.640 And it's not just about one person.

00:49:00.100 It's about do we have a rule of law?

00:49:02.100 Or is it just about wielding power against people you don't like?

00:49:05.360 And so everything that happens in this case and others, for me, is seen through that prism of a DOJ and FBI that have totally lost their way and have been weaponized against the public.

00:49:15.760 Look, I think in D.C. there's a big problem that we have in terms of being able to get fair trials.

00:49:21.500 If you are part of the swamp, when Durham went after that guy, he got acquitted.

00:49:27.380 He had them dead to rights, but he got acquitted in front of a D.C. jury.

00:49:30.600 If you're not part of the swamp, man, they will nail you to the wall for jaywalking.

00:49:36.720 One of the things I want to do and work with Congress is to give Americans the right to remove a case if they're charged in D.C. federally.

00:49:43.320 Remove it to their home judicial district, because I think you'd get a fairer jury pool.

00:49:48.400 I mean, that's a 95 percent very liberal jury pool.

00:49:51.520 And in a politically charged case, I don't think it's going to be I don't think it's going to be fair.

00:49:56.140 And that's an imbalance that we have where the swamp protects its own.

00:50:00.120 So people are effectively immune because they can get acquitted in front of that jury.

00:50:04.200 But then if you're challenging the swamp, man, they will nail you to the wall.

00:50:08.320 Given your views on the weaponization of government, would you commit to pardoning him on any federal charges against him?

00:50:13.680 Well, what I've said is very simple.

00:50:15.360 I'm going to do what's right for the country.

00:50:16.900 I don't think it would be good for the country to have an almost 80-year-old former president go to prison.

00:50:22.940 So that's a yes.

00:50:23.820 It doesn't seem like it would be a good thing.

00:50:25.820 And I look at Ford, pardon Nixon, took some heat for it.

00:50:31.000 But at the end of the day, it's like, do we want to move forward as a country?

00:50:34.540 Or do we want to be mired in these past controversies?

00:50:37.600 And I think the public wants a fresh start.

00:50:39.920 I think they want somebody that's going to focus on their issues.

00:50:42.720 We've had a lot that's happened over the last five or six years.

00:50:46.020 I get that.

00:50:47.320 But going forward, we've got all these issues that we've got to deal with.

00:50:51.640 But I've also said this on ending weaponization.

00:50:54.720 We will wield the pardon power if normal Americans have been targeted unfairly.

00:51:00.800 And what I'm going to look to see, okay, was there a separate standard of justice applied?

00:51:04.240 As soon as the election's over, we want people to apply who may have been treated dissimilarly.

00:51:09.800 And then you can go and do that appropriately.

00:51:11.880 And then the flip side of that is people that are connected to the swamp are going to be held accountable.

00:51:16.760 They are not going to get a lower standard of justice.

00:51:18.760 You said Trump should have done more on January 6th.

00:51:21.900 Like what?

00:51:23.680 Well, look, I think it's been well documented, kind of his conduct when it first started, how he sat there.

00:51:29.800 You know, could have obviously leaned in harder.

00:51:31.900 I think, I mean, even his own kids were texting saying, you know, he needs to do more.

00:51:35.360 He needs to do more.

00:51:36.020 Is that criminal, though?

00:51:38.340 I mean, that's the thing when you talk about a grand jury and a potential criminal indictment.

00:51:42.280 I mean, you can identify flawed conduct.

00:51:46.100 You can criticize his conduct.

00:51:48.480 But you have to find a statute that was violated.

00:51:52.240 And I think one of the dangers of what Garland's doing in this is they may be taking statutes from, like,

00:51:57.900 Reconstruction era that was about making sure that freed slaves had civil rights.

00:52:03.320 And they may apply that to Trump on that.

00:52:06.880 And that's the thing.

00:52:07.580 When you have a situation where there's this political difference, nobody's above the law.

00:52:12.440 I mean, you could be a Republican administration.

00:52:14.340 It doesn't mean you can't prosecute a Democrat and vice versa.

00:52:16.520 But the issue is, if someone robs a bank, we know that's a crime.

00:52:19.980 You rob the bank.

00:52:20.900 If they prove it up, then you're held accountable.

00:52:23.300 To take a statute like Conspiracy Against Rights and try to shoehorn in his conduct on January 6th,

00:52:30.320 that is what's going to cause people to say, well, wait a minute.

00:52:33.600 You know, you're doing it.

00:52:34.620 Yeah.

00:52:36.300 Some of the observations of Ron DeSantis on the campaign trail have been, well,

00:52:41.540 he doesn't seem like a natural retail politician.

00:52:44.380 He's not glad-handing with the crowds the way Bill Clinton did.

00:52:49.400 That's actually not true.

00:52:50.380 So that's what they said before we started.

00:52:52.700 They're like, oh, he doesn't do retail.

00:52:54.260 I don't know where they got that from.

00:52:55.740 I'm, as governor, I was the first governor to visit all 67 counties.

00:53:00.280 Does this bother you?

00:53:01.300 Well, because it's a narrative.

00:53:02.660 It's just not true.

00:53:03.580 I mean, I'm actually on the ground.

00:53:05.640 People, all they had to do was watch what I've done as governor, watch what we've done in

00:53:09.440 these campaigns.

00:53:10.560 But, and I think they say, well, Florida's a media state, all this other thing.

00:53:13.700 Therefore, you must not do that.

00:53:15.480 We do do that.

00:53:16.420 I mean, we go in all those.

00:53:17.600 So we've come and go.

00:53:18.820 And so we did the New Hampshire GOP dinner.

00:53:21.960 And the party chairman goes to the media, they're like, you guys were saying he doesn't

00:53:27.300 do retail, he doesn't do all this.

00:53:29.220 And what we saw was the complete opposite.

00:53:31.500 He came in, did a great speech.

00:53:33.160 He took pictures, shook hands with every single person that wanted to do it.

00:53:36.580 He was there for an extra hour and all this stuff.

00:53:39.060 So I think what the media does, they can't criticize me in a Republican primary on my record

00:53:45.880 very effectively because we've done so much.

00:53:48.340 Politically, we've been a huge success.

00:53:49.920 So they know that.

00:53:50.840 So they've got to try to figure out whatever.

00:53:52.520 So they throw this out there thinking that.

00:53:54.800 I'll tell you what, it's helped me, though, because I think what they do is they just lower

00:53:58.100 the bar.

00:53:58.800 So when you go there and do this, people are like, oh, man, this is normal.

00:54:01.680 He's a great guy.

00:54:02.540 Oh, wow.

00:54:02.740 He can put sentences together and shake hands.

00:54:05.200 Exactly.

00:54:06.000 This may sound like a weird question, but there's a reason I'm asking it.

00:54:08.940 The woman who is playing the lead in your favorite movie company, Disney's remake of Snow

00:54:14.000 White, is on camera, just got recirculated, though.

00:54:17.120 She said it in 2022.

00:54:18.140 Saying in this remake, we can expect that Snow White will not be focused on true love,

00:54:24.560 but instead is going to be all about leadership.

00:54:27.560 You said you were bringing a modern edge to it on stage.

00:54:30.860 What do you mean by that?

00:54:31.720 I just mean that it's no longer 1937.

00:54:34.520 And we absolutely wrote a Snow White that is not going to be saved by the prince.

00:54:39.000 She's not going to be saved by the prince.

00:54:40.280 And she's not going to be dreaming about true love.

00:54:42.640 She's dreaming about becoming the leader she knows she can be.

00:54:46.360 As somebody who is a sitting governor and seems to have found true love in your life,

00:54:49.560 what do you make of that message?

00:54:50.880 Yeah, I mean, well, I think it's partially Disney.

00:54:53.480 They're departing from kind of what made them a great company with their messaging.

00:54:57.880 And they're trying to focus on more social messaging.

00:55:01.560 And I don't think it's been effective for them.

00:55:03.600 I mean, clearly, their stock prices had a lot of trouble in the past year or two.

00:55:06.840 And the receipts at the box office have not been good.

00:55:10.640 It's interesting.

00:55:11.580 Speaking of true love, my wife and I, we got married at Disney World.

00:55:14.960 I can't believe that.

00:55:15.740 And it was like, it was not my idea.

00:55:17.920 And she came to me one day and she said, what about this?

00:55:20.640 Because her parents, her family loved Disney, right?

00:55:22.660 Growing up, what about Disney?

00:55:24.020 And I'm like, look, if that's what you want, it's your day.

00:55:26.960 I'm along for the ride.

00:55:28.100 But no Donald Duck at the wedding.

00:55:30.200 That's where I'm drawing the line.

00:55:31.300 And we didn't have, and they actually have a wedding chapel.

00:55:33.180 It was very nice and everything.

00:55:35.000 But it's like, you know, that was not anything.

00:55:37.080 I mean, Disney at that time was viewed as still the all-American company.

00:55:40.580 But how do you see?

00:55:41.700 How do you see?

00:55:42.660 I mean, to me, it stuck out at me that the notion that you have to choose, right?

00:55:47.200 Like, you can't be both a leader and true love.

00:55:49.660 It's one or the other.

00:55:50.920 And I look at somebody like you, and it puts the lie to the notion.

00:55:55.000 You've talked openly about your love with your wife.

00:55:57.940 It's nice to hear, frankly, a strong man and a strong leader talk about his wife a lot

00:56:01.460 and how much, you know, you feel for her.

00:56:03.180 But put it in perspective for us.

00:56:05.040 Well, look, I mean, I'm a better leader because of my relationship with my wife.

00:56:09.980 I mean, I'm a better leader because I have somebody that's my best friend and the love

00:56:15.040 of my life.

00:56:15.700 So it works hand in hand for me.

00:56:18.180 The idea that you have to choose is totally ridiculous.

00:56:21.700 And, you know, she's been somebody who has gone through trials and tribulations with

00:56:26.500 having breast cancer and things like that.

00:56:28.080 And, you know, my job as a husband is, you know, you're there, good times and bad and

00:56:33.780 sickness and in health.

00:56:34.860 And so, yeah, I was governor and I had to do the job for the state.

00:56:37.960 But, you know, I'd be here on the weekends.

00:56:40.580 You know, I'm here as soon as I get back during the weekdays.

00:56:43.540 I'm here helping her through that because, you know, it's not an easy thing to go through.

00:56:47.740 And she handled it very well.

00:56:49.440 And she was not it was not not facing a good situation.

00:56:52.860 So she handled it very well.

00:56:54.240 But but, you know, that's just my role.

00:56:56.460 That's my job.

00:56:57.260 I need to be there.

00:56:58.380 The fact that she was dealing with this two years ago, I mean, just two years ago and

00:57:02.360 in his back on her feet and as able and vivacious as she is, is amazing.

00:57:07.700 Last question.

00:57:08.760 She is unfortunately the brunt of a lot of these media attacks and they're vicious.

00:57:12.600 They're they're cruel.

00:57:13.680 They're unfounded.

00:57:14.620 Um, it's harder sometimes to watch your loved one go through it than to go through it

00:57:19.860 yourself.

00:57:20.240 Right.

00:57:20.680 The media washing machine.

00:57:23.320 Um, how does it affect you and does it ever give you pause?

00:57:26.160 Like, is this worth it?

00:57:27.300 You've got the young kids.

00:57:28.440 You've got the great wife.

00:57:29.840 Is this worth it?

00:57:31.420 So, I mean, I don't mind the criticism to me.

00:57:35.200 It's like I don't even read it.

00:57:36.420 I mean, I just you know, it's not things that I'm interested in doing.

00:57:39.280 And so, you know, I've got very thick skin.

00:57:41.300 And and that helps you as a leader, because I don't have to contort myself to try to worry

00:57:46.100 about what people are going to say.

00:57:47.620 Like, I know people that don't want me to succeed are not going to say good things.

00:57:51.320 That's just the reality.

00:57:52.200 That's just how it's part for the course.

00:57:53.860 It's not as easy seeing it with your wife just because they clearly this is a good person,

00:58:00.080 you know, who's a good mother.

00:58:01.500 It's been a great first lady.

00:58:02.620 And they just don't like the fact that she's effective.

00:58:06.340 They don't like the fact that she's speaking to issues that really do resonate.

00:58:10.300 And they view her as a threat to their political ambitions.

00:58:13.620 And so what do they do?

00:58:15.080 They try to smear her.

00:58:16.300 They try to attack her for for all these different things.

00:58:18.760 But she and I, though, have come to the realization if she was not doing a good job,

00:58:25.300 if she was not a force to be reckoned with, they would not waste time on her.

00:58:28.740 They're going after her because she launched the Mamas movement nationally,

00:58:32.460 which she did in Florida for a reelection.

00:58:34.980 And people are drawn to it.

00:58:36.620 And it's not just Republicans because independents and Democrat parents on the whole parents rights

00:58:41.940 thing, a lot of the Democrat parents sided with us because they knew that that was just

00:58:46.560 the right thing to do for kids.

00:58:48.000 So in some respects, it's confirmation that she's over the target.

00:58:51.760 And when you're over the target, you're taking flack.

00:58:53.880 And that's just the nature of it.

00:58:55.160 So I don't like to see it.

00:58:56.300 But I also understand that they're seeing what so many people in Florida have seen.

00:59:01.980 She's a very dynamic, very strong, very inspirational woman.

00:59:06.920 And there's a lot of moms out there that are that she's going to resonate with.

00:59:10.900 Governor DeSantis, thank you.

00:59:12.780 Thanks so much.

00:59:13.500 So nice to see you.

00:59:14.240 Thank you.

00:59:14.840 All the best to you.

00:59:17.000 What did you think?

00:59:19.020 I think it was one of the more, if not the most robust exchange he's had since he declared

00:59:25.680 his candidacy.

00:59:26.700 And I thought he acquitted himself very well.

00:59:29.020 But I'm more interested in what you think.

00:59:31.340 So you can email me, Megan at MeganKelley.com with your thoughts.

00:59:36.320 I want to tell you some behind the scenes color on the DeSantis.

00:59:40.300 We had dinner with them the night before.

00:59:44.540 And so we got to meet Casey as well.

00:59:46.940 And let me tell you, that relationship is legit.

00:59:50.180 They really are in love.

00:59:51.640 You could see it just in the way they look at each other.

00:59:53.820 You could see the way she has his back, the way she would sort of tee up the right conversations

00:59:57.860 that would reflect well on him.

00:59:59.660 And she has her own distinct opinions, of course.

01:00:02.640 But I'm a very loyal partner, very clearly.

01:00:04.780 And he's defensive of her too.

01:00:06.240 And it was nice.

01:00:07.300 I mean, it's just nice.

01:00:08.080 It's nice to have the thought of a couple in the White House that actually is madly in

01:00:12.700 love and has each other's backs and is young and vibrant with the young, beautiful kids

01:00:16.560 who we also had the pleasure of meeting.

01:00:18.380 They're adorable.

01:00:19.380 They're really little.

01:00:20.460 They've been in politics and in a political house basically their whole life because they're

01:00:24.160 babes, six, five, and three, as he said.

01:00:27.080 But my impression of the family was it's a very happy one, which was nice to see.

01:00:30.780 It was just nice to see.

01:00:32.420 I will say that the discussion that we had the night before is off the record.

01:00:36.200 So we're not going to get into the substance here.

01:00:37.640 But I will tell you that he's extremely knowledgeable about every single issue that I teed up to

01:00:44.580 him.

01:00:44.860 I mean, there was no issue on which he couldn't go 10 deep.

01:00:47.520 And it was interesting to hear him talk like that.

01:00:50.200 We got to some of it in the interview.

01:00:52.020 You know, we went deep on Disney.

01:00:53.500 And I know that the audience is on his side on that.

01:00:56.040 But still, you know, I've got my issues that, you know, I keep raising.

01:00:58.980 But it was interesting to listen to him fight that fight and explain himself, not just once,

01:01:03.900 but go the next layer, go the next layer.

01:01:05.460 And he can do that on everything.

01:01:07.460 His thoughts on the Supreme Court, on the justices that are up there, on Trump's picks versus some

01:01:12.880 of the picks we've had earlier.

01:01:13.800 All very interesting stuff.

01:01:14.960 Didn't have time for it in this sit down, but we'll hopefully get to it in another one.

01:01:18.500 And I will tell you this too, he's funny.

01:01:22.220 He was doing impressions that had us in hysterics.

01:01:26.200 Like, I had never seen that side of him, you know?

01:01:29.720 And I think part of, though he didn't really want to sort of adopt the term reset, and he

01:01:35.480 certainly said that didn't mean any change in messaging.

01:01:38.300 I do think if he puts himself out there more and allows himself the opportunity for more

01:01:43.780 relaxed interviews or, you know, long enough that he can show another side, because you

01:01:47.680 have five minutes, you just got to beat him up.

01:01:49.140 If you have 45, it's much better.

01:01:51.200 He'll do better.

01:01:52.520 I do think that's a smart next move for him.

01:01:55.560 All right.

01:01:56.060 Another fun behind-the-scenes piece of color.

01:01:59.080 So I was on the fence about whether I was going to wear that pink dress that you saw or

01:02:04.200 this red dress, which I brought with me.

01:02:06.260 But the red dress was a little too buttoned up.

01:02:08.420 It's 100 degrees.

01:02:09.480 I just was like, I'm not sure if I want that red dress.

01:02:11.560 So I'm going to wear the pink one.

01:02:12.700 I felt the inspo.

01:02:14.080 And so I wore the pink dress, which I thought looked great.

01:02:16.400 However, and we were very early in the morning doing this interview.

01:02:20.820 As soon as I sit down, I realize on the right side, which you can see I am hiding here behind

01:02:26.100 the governor, there's a rip.

01:02:28.500 There's a tear.

01:02:29.680 Look at me strategically placing my arm over the rip.

01:02:32.480 Now here it goes back.

01:02:33.220 What?

01:02:33.440 My arm.

01:02:33.800 No.

01:02:34.360 Do not let the camera see the rip.

01:02:35.800 There was a rip on my dress, my fancy dress for the interview of the sitting governor,

01:02:40.400 presidential candidate Ron DeSantis, that you, I am not taking that arm away from the side.

01:02:45.200 Because God knows what could have happened.

01:02:47.240 What if the whole thing had torn open?

01:02:50.400 Ladies, have you been there?

01:02:52.040 You know, it's like everything's all set.

01:02:54.140 And then, damn it, your dress tears.

01:02:57.520 There was too much steak at dinner the night before.

01:03:01.460 Anyway, love to hear from all of you.

01:03:04.560 So let me know what you thought on the issues, right?

01:03:06.500 Did you learn anything?

01:03:07.260 And on whether your views have changed, remain the same, or how you're feeling about all of it.

01:03:13.200 Megan, M-E-G-Y-N, at megankelly.com.

01:03:16.100 Up next, Victor Davis Hanson weighs in.

01:03:19.100 He's watched the whole thing.

01:03:20.420 And we'll talk about the debacle of the Hunter Biden plea agreement and the latest new charges

01:03:26.120 they've just dropped on President Donald Trump.

01:03:28.980 Joining me now for his analysis on the state of the DeSantis campaign and whether DeSantis

01:03:37.480 can turn it around, not to mention Hunter Biden and Trump news, Victor Davis Hanson.

01:03:41.980 He's a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and author of the must-read The Dying Citizen.

01:03:48.280 So, VDH, what'd you think?

01:03:49.540 I thought he did very well, and I thought you pressed him pretty vigorously at times.

01:03:56.580 And the only bewilderment I had is he did so well that I don't know why he's not doing

01:04:02.060 that three or four times a day, seven days a week, and why cede the exposure to other

01:04:09.100 candidates that don't do as well.

01:04:10.560 That's what I'm confused about.

01:04:11.880 And so I think he's an underappreciated candidate, and he's got this bad rap that he's the Scott

01:04:20.180 Walker, that he's this perfect governor who did all these wonderful things.

01:04:24.180 But when you see him in person, he's either not charismatic or he's not informed or he

01:04:30.700 won't debate well.

01:04:31.720 But I don't think that applies to him.

01:04:33.640 He does very well.

01:04:35.080 And the race is still wide open.

01:04:37.220 It's really crazy what people are saying about this campaign.

01:04:40.640 If you look back in 2008, everybody at this time, and at July of the year before, were

01:04:46.980 saying it's going to be a race between Rudy Giuliani and Hillary Clinton, neither of whom

01:04:51.720 made it to the nomination.

01:04:54.400 And so John McCain was considered inert in 2008, in 2007.

01:04:59.960 And we could go on and on with examples where we, at this point in a presidential campaign,

01:05:06.080 the putative winners were not the eventual nominees.

01:05:09.680 But I don't know why in this particular case, we just assume it's all over.

01:05:15.040 It's crazy.

01:05:16.020 Well, I think that the DeSantis campaign made a critical strategic mistake, which was they

01:05:22.980 assumed, because the mainstream media hates him, and they do, that it would not be a good

01:05:28.960 thing for him to go on those channels and help them with their viewership and sort of,

01:05:33.640 you know, pay them, pay them back by getting ratings for these people, because that's not

01:05:39.020 what conservatives wanted to see.

01:05:40.380 And I think the opposite is true.

01:05:43.140 Going into the lion's den, especially for a guy like this, is a good idea.

01:05:47.840 He is a fighter, as our package setting up the interview showed and reminded the audience.

01:05:52.840 He enjoys it.

01:05:53.780 He understands.

01:05:54.580 He's, as I said, he goes deep on policy.

01:05:56.400 There's nobody at The View who's going to be able to embarrass Ron DeSantis on policy.

01:06:02.560 So I think they're now realizing that, that all that earned media, these viral moments,

01:06:06.760 any, you know, exchange that he has with the media will inure to his benefit.

01:06:11.360 And so I really hope he does go out there more and, you know, mix it up.

01:06:15.020 He should go on The View.

01:06:16.160 I mean, I don't like those ladies getting ratings because they don't normally, but I would

01:06:20.580 love to see him against them.

01:06:22.200 Wouldn't you like to see him emerge more robustly from that conservative bunker?

01:06:26.400 Absolutely.

01:06:27.180 And, you know, he's been a viable candidate.

01:06:29.900 He has all these position papers.

01:06:31.420 He's got this great record.

01:06:33.220 But the only time we see him with the media is kind of a Florida press conference where

01:06:37.320 it's back and forth and he kind of crushes them, but he doesn't really develop his full

01:06:42.440 media skills.

01:06:43.560 And if he were to go out like he did with you three or four times a day, I think he would

01:06:48.220 get enormous boost in the polls.

01:06:51.740 And then more importantly, Megan, there's all these things that are going on that we don't

01:06:55.240 even talk about.

01:06:55.960 We've never had a campaign like this where two former presidents, one president and a

01:07:00.720 former president are going to run.

01:07:02.720 But one president is former president is looking at four, I think, politically biased, but

01:07:08.880 nevertheless serious indictments that could tie him up with gag orders, delays, etc.

01:07:14.180 And then we have another president that I think is pretty clearly corrupt.

01:07:19.520 And that's going to come out and build in a way that could be even more serious than I

01:07:23.740 think the bogus Trump indictments.

01:07:26.460 And we haven't even started the debate yet.

01:07:30.040 Donald Trump says he's not going to debate.

01:07:31.480 I don't believe that because he's a good debater.

01:07:34.160 And I don't think he can see that that stage and others have the attention.

01:07:37.880 So there's all these known unknowns that are in play and we've got to relax and let them

01:07:42.880 play out before we make these snap judgments on what's happening.

01:07:46.880 I thought his point when I pressed him about, you know, electability and the most recent

01:07:53.160 poll that showed the majority of the party, 69 percent, thinks Donald Trump is a better

01:07:56.500 candidate against against Joe Biden.

01:07:59.080 His one of his points was look at Georgia and Arizona, like start looking at the actual

01:08:03.620 states and whether they'll vote for Donald Trump, the states that are going to, you know,

01:08:07.360 as we like to pretend in states like, you know, yours, California or mine, Connecticut,

01:08:11.340 that we have really a meaningful role in deciding the presidential contest.

01:08:16.040 But we don't.

01:08:16.800 We vote while everyone knows how our states are going to turn out.

01:08:19.720 However, there's that collection of states, six to 10, that really do make all the difference.

01:08:23.840 And Georgia and Arizona are definitely two of them.

01:08:26.800 And he's pointing out, if you look at those state by states where I actually do need to

01:08:30.920 be more popular than Joe Biden versus Trump's chances against Joe Biden, I do better than

01:08:35.120 Trump.

01:08:35.420 And that is that's a solid point.

01:08:37.060 We actually went back and checked.

01:08:38.080 And he's right about that.

01:08:39.920 So, I mean, it is a point in his favor that Republican voters will and should consider.

01:08:45.360 Yeah, I think so.

01:08:46.660 The big I think the biggest unknown is Donald Trump.

01:08:49.700 He's been so demonized and treated unjustly by Bragg and James and Willis and Smith that

01:08:58.620 he's got an actual empathy.

01:09:00.300 And I think the Democrats encourage that, at least in the nomination cycle.

01:09:05.100 But we don't know the reaction of the voters because it's just starting this cycle.

01:09:09.260 Are they going to get even angrier and get more empathetic the more that these people politicize

01:09:14.820 these?

01:09:15.480 Or are they kind of getting into a proverbial fetal position and say, you know what, I can't

01:09:20.740 take it anymore.

01:09:21.380 It's just constant news, news, news indictment and transfer that wrath to another candidate

01:09:26.780 that won't be experiencing that.

01:09:29.480 And so it's hard to adjudicate what's going to go on because we've never been here before.

01:09:35.180 We've never been with the two front-running candidates that are looking at Syria.

01:09:40.440 And Joe Biden is looking, I think, at far more serious legal counsels than Donald Trump.

01:09:45.400 Well, I mean, that's why DeSantis' comments about not wanting, that he basically said he's going

01:09:51.400 to pardon Trump.

01:09:52.100 I mean, he didn't say it explicitly, but he came as close as you're going to get.

01:09:55.600 It's not, I'll do what's best for the country.

01:09:57.240 And what's best for the country is not to have an 80-year-old indicted former president.

01:10:01.700 That would apply to Joe Biden, too, presumably.

01:10:03.540 I mean, Joe Biden, Trump might not be the only one under indictment by the time we have a

01:10:08.400 new president in office.

01:10:10.440 Absolutely.

01:10:11.120 And I think you don't have to have four separate prosecutors searching for all sorts of extenuating

01:10:17.400 circumstances and massaging the law to find indictments with Joe Biden because it's in

01:10:22.340 the Constitution.

01:10:23.620 It says bribery and treason.

01:10:25.080 And if you're taking money from foreign entities that are connected with a government, that's

01:10:30.280 bribery.

01:10:31.060 And then you could argue that you're not putting your own nation's security and national

01:10:35.300 interests first.

01:10:36.080 So that's a very serious charge.

01:10:38.480 And I think we're not even talking about that.

01:10:42.240 And the funny thing is, we got this DOJ that in this week, we had three really amazing stories.

01:10:50.780 More indictments of Donald Trump, a judge disgusted with this DOJ deal with Hunter Biden.

01:10:59.140 And in addition to that, Sam Bankman-Fried, who was one of the largest Democratic donors,

01:11:05.720 gets all of these campaign financing violations dismissed, I guess out of deference to Jamaica.

01:11:13.480 So the DOJ in one week on three different occasions in three different areas really showed

01:11:18.360 that it's weaponized, it's politicized.

01:11:21.440 Yeah, Bahamas.

01:11:22.480 Yeah, I know.

01:11:23.040 The big, scary Bahamas.

01:11:24.380 Okay, sure.

01:11:25.680 I mean, it's funny how things always tend to work out for the Democrats.

01:11:29.300 One other point on DeSantis.

01:11:32.040 Tim Scott came out too and hit him on the Florida slavery agenda.

01:11:36.380 I'm not surprised because it's presidential politics.

01:11:38.820 That's why Will Hurd did it, undoubtedly, too.

01:11:41.980 I mean, most people don't even know that Will Hurd is running for president.

01:11:44.460 But in any event, I have to say I'm surprised that Tim Scott did this.

01:11:49.300 Because it takes about 30 seconds to figure out that the Democrats were pushing this same

01:11:55.280 lesson plan that they're now objecting to in Ron DeSantis' lesson plan in Florida when

01:12:01.260 they were pushing that AP African-American history course.

01:12:03.980 They wanted the resiliency of the slaves taught as well.

01:12:08.220 Only they don't like it when Ron DeSantis' Department of Education does it.

01:12:12.320 In any event, here's Tim Scott weighing in on it.

01:12:14.600 There's no silver lining in freedom, in slavery.

01:12:18.100 The truth is that anything you can learn, that any benefits that people suggest you had during

01:12:22.140 slavery, you would have had as a free person.

01:12:24.820 What slavery was was really about separating families, about mutilating humans, and even

01:12:31.160 raping their wives.

01:12:32.500 It was just devastating.

01:12:33.840 So I would hope that every person in our country, and certainly running for president, would

01:12:39.880 appreciate that.

01:12:40.880 And listen, people have bad days.

01:12:42.900 Sometimes they regret what they say.

01:12:44.320 And we should ask them again to clarify their position.

01:12:49.480 What is he saying?

01:12:50.900 Who is he appealing to?

01:12:52.260 Ask them to clarify?

01:12:52.960 It's not a Ron DeSantis statement.

01:12:54.280 It was a diverse group of 13 philosophers, teachers, professors down in Florida, including

01:13:01.060 six black people who came up with these standards, which teach all of the horrors of slavery and

01:13:06.080 have this one line.

01:13:07.180 Who is he appealing to, Victor?

01:13:10.180 I don't know.

01:13:11.160 I mean, going way back to Booker Washington when he wrote Up From Slavery, that was his theme,

01:13:17.180 that slavery did not break black people.

01:13:19.780 It tried its best to break black people, but it could not.

01:13:23.000 And black people emerged out of slavery from that ordeal.

01:13:27.380 And that's what they were trying to emphasize with a defiance and almost a confidence that

01:13:32.320 they could go through anything, no matter how horrific.

01:13:35.340 And that's what they were trying to stress.

01:13:36.680 They took a line out of context.

01:13:38.420 I think Tim Scott's problem, and this is too bad because it channels into it, is that when

01:13:43.580 he speaks, he has a very eloquent personal story about Up From Poverty and disadvantage

01:13:50.340 and odds against him to where he is now spiced with Scott Phillips about the wonderful American

01:13:58.760 free enterprise system.

01:14:00.060 But he's not going out and talking about, this is what I'm going to do specifically on

01:14:04.520 the border.

01:14:05.200 I have a new idea about how to deal with crime.

01:14:08.380 I want to get everybody on my energy program.

01:14:12.320 It's too much of this personal story.

01:14:14.240 And when he comments on this, it's the same racial theme story, which is fine in that it's

01:14:20.960 a good introduction to his candidacy.

01:14:23.080 But he's got to move beyond that or it's just going to be a broken record.

01:14:27.980 Yeah.

01:14:28.280 I don't like he's going to win over, I guess, the ladies of the view with that comment.

01:14:33.160 But I don't think the Republican base is going to appreciate him adopting the line, the dishonest

01:14:38.340 line from Kamala Harris about what's actually being taught in Florida.

01:14:42.500 OK, that's that.

01:14:44.480 Let's discuss the new, you know, one of my good friends, she listens to the show every

01:14:49.060 day and she always texts me with her thoughts on it, which I love.

01:14:51.240 And she said she has Trump indictment fatigue.

01:14:53.360 And I have it too, right?

01:14:54.500 It's like, think of the way it was when Alvin Bragg first brought the indictment.

01:14:58.280 It was like a before and after moment.

01:14:59.600 Like, my God, what's happened?

01:15:00.780 We've crossed the Rubicon.

01:15:01.620 Now it's like, OK, they added more charges to the Mar-a-Lago indictment and they're probably

01:15:06.820 going to indict him on Jan 6th.

01:15:08.120 And then we're going to get the Atlanta indictment.

01:15:09.820 I can't like I do care.

01:15:11.680 I still think it's wrong.

01:15:12.960 But I just wonder where the Democrats are really just undermining their whole plan with

01:15:17.400 this.

01:15:17.900 OK, now they want us to be super outraged that they've now added a new defendant to the

01:15:23.420 Trump indictment on Mar-a-Lago, Carlos de Oliveira, Oliveira.

01:15:28.160 Um, he is alleged to have tried to get a security guard, like a surveillance video overseer to

01:15:37.940 delete certain surveillance video at Mar-a-Lago.

01:15:41.900 Allegedly, he looked into it with Trump's right hand man, Walt Nachua.

01:15:47.060 And they don't actually allege that the guy did it.

01:15:52.300 No one's alleging that they deleted the stuff.

01:15:54.580 And there's no allegation that they even attempted to destroy the tapes, just that they seem to

01:16:00.260 kind of want to and that Trump may or may not have told them to.

01:16:04.020 But it doesn't seem to me, Victor, they actually have a witness who's going to take the witness

01:16:07.020 stand and say that about Trump, which means unless they get one of these guys to flip on

01:16:11.440 Trump, which so far they haven't, none of this is going to come into evidence.

01:16:14.660 So where are we?

01:16:16.960 It's really, I think this, these types of things really get American people mad.

01:16:21.140 These are two people who are of the middle class.

01:16:24.340 Mr. Nauta is an immigrant.

01:16:25.820 He's a 12-year military veteran.

01:16:28.280 And so what is he doing?

01:16:29.720 He said he didn't know.

01:16:30.960 And maybe he did know or he didn't know, but they're going to be prosecuting for not

01:16:34.800 being forthcoming about what Trump said to them.

01:16:37.880 And that's in a context where we have the former CIA director, John Brennan, just flat

01:16:42.820 out lying under oath, twice, with no consequences.

01:16:47.720 We had James Clapper, who not only lied, but said he gave the least untruthful answer about

01:16:53.180 NSA spying.

01:16:54.580 We have James Comey, 245 times under oath, doing what Mr. Nauta did.

01:16:59.260 I don't know.

01:17:00.020 I can't remember.

01:17:01.160 And then we have Hunter Biden.

01:17:02.460 And so the idea that the government of the United States is going after two mid-level

01:17:09.840 working class people and trying to get them in perjury traps over these classified documents,

01:17:18.220 given all of these grandees in the government at the very highest levels who have lied repeatedly

01:17:24.960 on their own, it's just not sustainable.

01:17:27.700 And people are going to say, and this is what I think DeSantis is trying to say, you have two

01:17:31.620 sets of laws.

01:17:33.060 And finally, what can't go on, won't go on.

01:17:35.660 And that's one of the big, I think, one of the great themes that people should be developing

01:17:41.660 on the Republican side, that there's going to be one set of laws, and they should go back

01:17:46.640 and go really start to enforce perjury.

01:17:48.880 And people not speaking honestly, rather than doing it selectively to people who are about

01:17:54.040 or money or influence to try to turn them.

01:17:56.820 And what they did with Hunter, if you read that, and I know you did, you read that plea

01:18:03.560 deal, and then you juxtapose it to Nauta's fate, it's just disgusting that this guy has

01:18:09.020 done all of these things.

01:18:10.180 He was a foreign agent.

01:18:11.780 He didn't report income tax, hundreds of thousands of dollars of income tax.

01:18:16.740 He lied on an affidavit about a gun that turned up in a dumpster.

01:18:21.080 He had felonious behavior on his own laptop, and they are basically giving him a pass,

01:18:26.760 they were trying to, and a pass for future transgressions that haven't even been uncovered.

01:18:31.480 And then they go after Mr. Nauta and all of it.

01:18:34.060 It's just, it's just mind bogging.

01:18:37.720 It's, I don't, I want to mention too, the other charge being added against Trump relates

01:18:42.800 to that now infamous document.

01:18:44.740 He allegedly waved around at that book meeting for Mark Meadows, where he was saying, look

01:18:50.020 what Mark Milley gave me, the military gave this to me.

01:18:52.760 They wanted to attack Iran, you know, here's the plan.

01:18:55.700 And Trump has later suggested that he didn't actually have the document, that it was puffery.

01:19:01.600 And now the new charge, this yet another new charge, is related to a classified document,

01:19:07.300 quote, a battle plan related to attacking Iran.

01:19:10.760 The analysis of this is that the way they've worded it suggests the prosecutors do have the

01:19:17.320 document in question.

01:19:18.300 If so, that would be new information to me.

01:19:21.200 We were not aware of that prior to this.

01:19:23.380 We'll see.

01:19:23.800 Who knows?

01:19:24.580 Just to make sure the audience understands, that's what Trump is now facing.

01:19:28.520 The number one thing I see in this document is they need Carlos to flip.

01:19:32.000 If Carlos does not flip, this story really doesn't amount to a hill of beans because

01:19:36.120 it's not going to come in.

01:19:37.100 It's going to be hearsay evidence.

01:19:38.860 Okay, so that's Trump.

01:19:40.420 The Hunter stuff is so juicy.

01:19:42.060 I'm sorry, but like what unfolded while I was down in Tallahassee and traveling down

01:19:47.300 there was unbelievable to me.

01:19:49.480 I have to recommend to everybody that you go and you download Andrew McCarthy, Andy McCarthy's

01:19:54.600 podcast because he sits with Rich Lowry once a week, usually comes out on Fridays, but they

01:19:59.380 released a new one early.

01:20:01.060 And it's so worth your while.

01:20:02.220 He explains it in such clear terms.

01:20:04.340 I love Andy McCarthy.

01:20:05.380 He's one of the honest men left in legal analysis.

01:20:08.520 And he was a former federal prosecutor who brought these cases.

01:20:10.960 One of the points he makes, Victor, is that in these plea deals, normally, it's a form

01:20:15.220 agreement.

01:20:15.980 And the reason it's a form agreement is because the government has its form to make sure everybody

01:20:19.660 is subjected to equal justice.

01:20:21.520 This is what you're pleading guilty to, and this is the immunity you're going to get in

01:20:24.960 exchange.

01:20:25.680 It's like you just fill it in as the prosecutor, then you give it to the judge, and he or she

01:20:29.700 approves it or does not.

01:20:31.280 And none of that happened here.

01:20:33.560 The immunity that Hunter was being given was taken out of the main plea deal on the taxes.

01:20:38.380 It was put in a second deal that dealt with the gun charge, and it was sweeping.

01:20:42.840 It gave him immunity, not only on the tax charges and the gun thing, it gave him immunity for

01:20:47.620 everything related to everything he did in 14, 15, and up to present day.

01:20:52.820 Everything.

01:20:53.540 The foreign deals, any corruption, any money laundering, all of it.

01:20:57.200 And they tried to hide it from the judge.

01:20:59.520 And she, I mean, she is a hero.

01:21:01.580 He called her a hero, and I agree, Judge Nereika.

01:21:04.820 She said, what are you doing?

01:21:06.120 What is this?

01:21:06.820 I see which, why is, is he getting immunity for stuff beyond the taxes?

01:21:09.980 And the government was forced to admit it, even though they very clearly did not want her

01:21:16.420 to know.

01:21:17.480 They had tried to give this to him.

01:21:19.680 That's what the Hunter team expected.

01:21:22.060 And they thought they could pull a fast one over on the judge.

01:21:25.580 And she saw it.

01:21:26.840 And she said, are you giving, and they knew as a political matter, they had no choice but

01:21:30.840 to say, you know, we're, we're, we're, no, we're, we're not going to allow him to get

01:21:36.320 immunity on the charges we're investigating.

01:21:38.020 No, heck no, judge.

01:21:39.240 And that's when the Hunter lawyer stood up and said, well, that's bullshit.

01:21:42.420 Then this is off.

01:21:43.800 Well, then forget it then.

01:21:45.220 So that's where it stood.

01:21:46.280 And it had it not been for the honesty and the commitment to her job that Judge Nureka

01:21:50.340 did, Hunter would have just gotten, just gotten away with everything, which he still

01:21:54.600 might.

01:21:55.200 But for today, the battle's still on.

01:21:57.600 Yeah.

01:21:57.920 I think the strangest thing about it, Andy McCarthy pointed out in some parts is that our system,

01:22:03.580 whether we like it or not, is adversarial system.

01:22:06.640 So the DA is at war with the defense lawyers.

01:22:09.000 And one of the tactics or strategies of, and we see this with the Trump indictments, they

01:22:14.060 think of every type of writ they could.

01:22:17.100 I can remember the Conrad Black case where Patrick Fitzgerald, he just threw the whole

01:22:22.100 book at him.

01:22:22.720 And then he had to drop, drop, drop, drop, drop in exchange for focusing on one or two.

01:22:28.920 And I thought that they might do that, what they were doing to Trump.

01:22:31.540 In other words, the prosecutor would come in and charge, you know, throw the phone book

01:22:36.420 at Hunter, and then they would plea bargain and get those down.

01:22:40.560 But in exchange for dropping all those charges, they would be really tough on two or three

01:22:45.680 or four that were ironclad and ask for prison time and huge fines.

01:22:50.520 And they didn't.

01:22:51.460 It was like they were on the same team.

01:22:53.800 And I think the judge spotted that.

01:22:56.220 And, you know, everybody's had this experience when the IRS makes a mistake and writes you

01:23:01.940 and says, we're going to charge you a point and a half interest per month because you underreported

01:23:07.160 your taxes, then you call that 800 number and you go through it and through it and through

01:23:11.920 it.

01:23:12.620 And it's a matter of $5,000 or $10,000.

01:23:14.900 And then they admit their mistake after you paid your accountant $500.

01:23:18.400 That's what the average American goes through.

01:23:20.380 But the idea you don't report millions of dollars, knowingly so, and they don't even want to

01:23:27.460 have any consequences for that felony.

01:23:29.960 I don't understand that.

01:23:30.900 And when you look at the Biden lifestyle, how did he buy all of these houses, the DuPont

01:23:35.660 mansion at one point?

01:23:37.260 It seems to me a very easy thing that the IRS and the DOJ working together would just

01:23:42.380 say, these are the expenditures on the left ledger.

01:23:45.540 And this was the income that was reported, that was reported on the right.

01:23:49.300 And they don't jive.

01:23:50.920 And then they're not doing that, apparently.

01:23:53.720 How dare they try to tell us, the prosecutors, that they have an open, ongoing investigation into

01:23:59.920 Hunter, while they quietly give him immunity for everything.

01:24:05.100 That, I mean, you don't need to know anything more about this case than that.

01:24:08.800 They wanted to be able to say, ongoing investigation.

01:24:12.140 We're doing, you know, we're just warriors for justice.

01:24:15.900 We're going to take us wherever the facts lead us, while they secretly give him immunity

01:24:20.440 for all of it.

01:24:22.140 The only thing he would have been liable for under this agreement is a criminal act he commits

01:24:26.900 from this day forward, from the day, all the days after he signs the plea deal.

01:24:31.400 Nothing from the past, which includes Burisma, you know, Ukraine, China, all of it.

01:24:37.640 And this, you know, it all roots back to the fact that they would not appoint a special

01:24:43.000 counsel on this, Victor.

01:24:44.160 There's no special counsel investigating Hunter Biden.

01:24:47.120 It's being handled by daddy.

01:24:48.860 That's what's happening.

01:24:49.600 Joe Biden and Merrick Garland are holding hands on this and making sure that Junior doesn't

01:24:55.980 suffer any penalties.

01:24:57.580 Yeah, I have a theory why that is.

01:25:00.420 And it may be completely crazy.

01:25:02.280 But if you look at Hunter, why would you let somebody, just to take an example, who has

01:25:08.140 a long history of crack cocaine addiction into the White House?

01:25:12.580 It would make no sense.

01:25:14.040 Or why would you get even close to this case?

01:25:17.840 Why would you have a DOJ that is so politicized and so biased that they're treating Hunter Biden

01:25:23.840 with soft gloves?

01:25:25.520 And I think the answer, and why is Joe Biden being accompanied by Hunter?

01:25:29.940 Why, when he's under subpoena to disclose his financial status on this paternity suit, is

01:25:36.640 he hiding in the White House?

01:25:37.900 You know, when you have a Don Nixon, Richard Nixon, or a Malik Obama, or Roger Clinton, or

01:25:44.400 Billy Carter, presidents knew how to distance themselves from their family.

01:25:48.240 But once you start to read Hunter's laptop very carefully, and he references the big guy

01:25:54.660 of Joe, it's always in very angry terms.

01:25:57.680 They don't appreciate what I'm doing.

01:25:59.940 I gave him this money.

01:26:01.340 I'm carrying this family, especially when he's talking to his niece or his sister.

01:26:06.900 I am the guy that has to do all the dirty work.

01:26:09.620 And you get the impression that somebody who left a crack pipe in a car, or a gun was found

01:26:16.540 in a dumpster, or a laptop with felonious behavior is on it, and he's lost one or maybe two of

01:26:22.400 them, that they are afraid of him.

01:26:24.600 They feel that he's capable of doing anything at any time.

01:26:27.800 He's angry.

01:26:28.920 And they don't want him flipping, or they don't want him away talking to people.

01:26:33.580 And they're willing to risk their reputation and the integrity of the DOJ, and even embarrassing

01:26:40.740 situations like bringing him into the White House.

01:26:43.040 And we still don't know anything about the cocaine, probably not Hunter's, but it still

01:26:47.700 cannot be explained by simple statement.

01:26:51.000 It is not a Biden that left the cocaine.

01:26:53.520 We can assure you that.

01:26:54.500 They can't even say that.

01:26:55.520 So I think they, in a weird way, and you saw that with the painting, Megan, why, with

01:27:01.260 all of this scrutiny on his corruption and the soft gloves treatment given, would he create

01:27:06.780 a whole new industry of painting these paint-by-numbers, atrocious paintings, supposedly with an anonymous

01:27:15.000 buyer?

01:27:15.640 And now we learn that one of the buyers is given an aggregate $800,000 and getting perks.

01:27:20.560 So it's almost as if Joe Biden and Joe Biden are terrified of this guy.

01:27:24.900 He's a loose cannon.

01:27:26.000 They want him around, and they do not want him talking because he has a propensity of

01:27:31.180 getting really angry at his...

01:27:33.020 He's frozen.

01:27:34.700 Well, I think I can finish that sentence.

01:27:37.040 Has a propensity of getting really angry at his father, at his family.

01:27:40.520 We'll try to get BDH back.

01:27:41.640 There he is.

01:27:42.200 Yeah.

01:27:42.660 Okay.

01:27:43.000 I got your point on that, on the Hunter thing.

01:27:45.860 Yeah.

01:27:46.000 So they're keeping him under wraps.

01:27:47.000 Meanwhile, Hunter's business partner and friend, Devin Archer, is supposed to testify.

01:27:53.060 I don't think we're going to see it or hear it.

01:27:55.160 He's going to be...

01:27:55.840 But there's going to be a transcript of it on Monday before Congress, the House Oversight

01:27:59.780 Committee.

01:28:00.740 And this is going to be really interesting.

01:28:02.980 Tune into the show on Tuesday because we expect this guy to actually finally tell lawmakers

01:28:07.940 about the number of phone calls that Joe Biden made on Hunter's behalf, the number of

01:28:12.940 times, Hunter called in the big guy to finalize deals with all these companies that were paying.

01:28:19.400 I mean, Nancy Mace, Representative Nancy Mace was on Maria Bartiromo today, or yesterday,

01:28:23.560 today, and said she puts the number at over 50 million that these guys got as a result

01:28:29.640 of all this Hunter dealing.

01:28:31.620 And all we know from the laptop is Joe Biden, the big guy, was supposed to get 10% on at least

01:28:37.420 some of the deals.

01:28:38.380 So how much of that, if any, did he get?

01:28:41.160 And Devin Archer may have those numbers.

01:28:43.440 And Devin Archer seems to be able to tie it all together and say, you know, when Hunter

01:28:46.960 needed to sort of satisfy the Ukrainians or the Romanians or the Chinese, that they were

01:28:51.840 buying access to Joe, that it wasn't just the loser crack cocaine kid.

01:28:56.280 He'd get Joe on the phone.

01:28:57.820 And Joe didn't need to say, hey, I'm in on it.

01:28:59.880 Hey, I'll do what you want me to do.

01:29:01.500 Joe just needed to say, how you doing?

01:29:03.620 Yes, I'm so glad to meet you through Hunter.

01:29:06.160 Thanks so much for working with him.

01:29:08.060 That's it.

01:29:09.000 And the fix was in.

01:29:09.880 That's where this investigation looks like it's going.

01:29:12.560 Yeah, I agree.

01:29:13.160 I mean, these are verifiable allegations.

01:29:15.680 So when you have Mr. Archer claiming of knowledge of these phone calls or a Ukrainian oligarch

01:29:22.820 suggesting out of 17 phone calls with the Bidens, two were with Joe Biden.

01:29:27.440 If he can supply the dates or was it on Joe Biden's own phone?

01:29:31.080 There's ways that you can verify that.

01:29:32.780 And this is all in the context of Mr. Bobulinski, who over two years ago laid it out.

01:29:38.040 And then there's the evidence on the laptop.

01:29:39.900 And then there's the IRS whistleblowers.

01:29:42.120 So the left always uses this term, the walls are closing in.

01:29:45.060 But when you have the IRS coming in from one direction with whistleblowers who are not

01:29:49.560 partisan and are going from the tax consequences, then you have people from Ukraine who are kind

01:29:56.400 of angry at the Bidens for shaking them down and claim that they have both Hunter and Joe on record.

01:30:02.040 And then you have the two business associates, Bobulinski and Archer, coming from a different

01:30:06.640 direction.

01:30:07.580 It's very hard to see how anybody in the DOJ is going to square that circle.

01:30:12.400 And yet, though, they will try.

01:30:14.200 All right.

01:30:14.560 Yeah, they will try.

01:30:15.360 Let me shift it in the last couple of minutes because I've got to get to Oakland.

01:30:17.960 Something extraordinary happened in Oakland.

01:30:19.700 I mean, I woke up this morning.

01:30:20.740 I'm like, this can't be real.

01:30:21.740 Can't be real.

01:30:22.180 Now, NAACP, the NAACP writing an open letter now saying that Oakland residents are Oakland,

01:30:31.080 California, sick and tired of our intolerable public safety crisis that overwhelmingly impacts

01:30:36.220 minority communities, calling for a state of emergency in Oakland, blaming failed leadership,

01:30:40.720 including the movement to defund the police.

01:30:43.340 I'm quoting here.

01:30:44.280 Our district attorney's unwillingness to charge and prosecute people who murder and the proliferation

01:30:49.040 of anti-police rhetoric that's created a heyday for Oakland criminals, saying these

01:30:54.900 needs to be addressed or crime will continue to soar, lamenting the shortage of police officers.

01:31:00.200 Quote, unfortunately, progressive policies and failed leadership have chased away or delayed

01:31:05.380 significant blue-collar job development in the city, the port of Oakland and the former

01:31:10.360 army base.

01:31:11.420 That must change.

01:31:12.860 We demand African-Americans to speak out and demand improved public safety.

01:31:16.580 We also encourage Oakland's white, Asian, and Latino communities to speak out against crime

01:31:20.960 and stop allowing themselves to be shamed into silence.

01:31:23.800 It is not racist or unkind to want to be safe from crime.

01:31:28.820 No one should live in fear in our city.

01:31:30.620 I couldn't believe that the president of the NAACP sent this, but she did.

01:31:36.600 It certainly appears that she did.

01:31:38.520 And she was out talking about it on CBS because Oakland is in a serious crisis right now.

01:31:44.040 Here's just a snippet from the CBS local news as they were lined up around the block.

01:31:50.760 Speaking of Disney with DeSantis, it was like the line to get on Space Mountain to go in

01:31:54.900 there and yell at the local DA about how she won't prosecute crime.

01:31:59.280 Look at this.

01:32:00.160 A lot of the anger tonight was directed at crime sprees where kids are the suspects.

01:32:05.580 District Attorney Pamela Price said in a recent case, there wasn't enough evidence to take a

01:32:10.360 group of kids to court.

01:32:11.900 What happened after they were let go?

01:32:15.720 They probably attacked someone else.

01:32:18.160 Yeah, I mean, there's a vicious little mom there.

01:32:21.440 I just want to say that there must be consequences.

01:32:26.580 It's unreal that there are no consequences for these children.

01:32:31.580 One of my goals is that I will give young people hope that because I was on doing some things

01:32:39.480 that I shouldn't have been doing, but because some people believed in me, that they helped

01:32:47.240 me find another way.

01:32:50.060 She doesn't want to hold juveniles to the consequences of their behavior or even just young people.

01:32:55.440 And that clip that they showed had white people objecting, but there were plenty of black people

01:33:00.780 there, very angry, and the NAACP, as I mentioned.

01:33:03.900 So what do you make of all this?

01:33:05.960 Well, I've been to Oakland a lot, and people forget when you say Oakland, you think it's

01:33:10.780 a poor community, but it has some of the richest enclaves on the West Coast and Piedmont

01:33:15.260 and other places around there, Mills College.

01:33:17.880 And these areas always thought they were going to be exempt from the consequences of their own

01:33:23.120 ideology and politics, because they voted, they vote along with blacks and Asians overwhelmingly

01:33:28.340 to defund the police.

01:33:30.220 And suddenly, they're not exempt anymore.

01:33:32.640 Their money, their influence, their power, it doesn't matter anymore.

01:33:37.100 Oakland is such a crime-ridden city that it's creeping up to the hills and the higher elevations,

01:33:43.120 and the grandees are starting to really, and I feel something for them, because their property

01:33:48.020 values are shot.

01:33:49.360 They can't go downtown.

01:33:50.560 And even in San Francisco, which we all talk about, the layer London Breed just the other

01:33:55.640 day said, I wish we could get rid of all the taxes on business, because they're all, if

01:34:01.120 I could do it, I would bring them back, even if they made money, they're just being driven

01:34:04.600 out.

01:34:05.340 So I guess what I'm saying is that the white, bi-coastal elite liberal who created all of

01:34:11.340 this, or empowered it, it's finally now in the third or fourth year of coming back and

01:34:17.700 affecting them personally, and they're outraged, and you're seeing a very weird dynamic where

01:34:23.280 they're turning on black elites that they helped elect, along with an alliance of the

01:34:28.260 black middle class.

01:34:29.660 It's very interesting, and if there were creative, conservative politicians, they could step in

01:34:34.580 and really try to find these constituencies and help them and enlist them as part of a rejection of this

01:34:42.020 neo-socialist Jacobin Democratic Party.

01:34:45.720 This is unbelievable.

01:34:46.800 I mean, like, of course we knew these consequences would come, but to hear it directly from the

01:34:50.780 NAACP, from the people who are living it, and we'll talk about it more this week, but I mean, some of the crime

01:34:56.560 videos that are coming out of Oakland are just alarming.

01:34:59.020 You can see exactly the consequences of these progressive policies.

01:35:03.720 VDH, a pleasure.

01:35:04.820 As always, thanks for being here.

01:35:06.560 Thank you for having me.

01:35:08.360 And thanks to all of you for joining me today and all week.

01:35:11.280 Would love your feedback on the show, on the interview.

01:35:14.160 Megan, M-E-G-Y-N, at megankelly.com.

01:35:16.740 There at megankelly.com, we're going to post some behind-the-scenes fun facts, including a crazy video you've got to see

01:35:22.560 from my trip to Dallahassee.

01:35:24.540 Have a great weekend.

01:35:29.020 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

01:35:31.100 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:35:33.660 Thank you.

The Megyn Kelly Show - July 28, 2023

Gov. Ron DeSantis on DOJ Corruption, His Disney Fight, and Pardoning Trump, Plus, Victor Davis Hanson on Hunter's Sweetheart Near Deal ｜ Ep. 597

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