The Megyn Kelly Show - Graham Linehan on His Arrest Over ＂Dangerous＂ Posts, and Media Refusing to Cover Brutal Charlotte Murder, with Rich Lowry and Charles C.W. Cooke

00:00:00.600 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

00:00:12.280 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Monday.

00:00:16.020 We have a great, great show for you today, but before we get started, I wanted to tell you

00:00:20.160 our big news. This fall on The Megyn Kelly Show, for the first time ever, we are going on the road.

00:00:28.840 I'm so excited about this. Megyn Kelly Live kicks off in October. We're going to be making 10 stops

00:00:34.940 across the country for live shows featuring your favorite all-star guests, including Tucker Carlson,

00:00:42.240 Charlie Kirk, Ben Shapiro, the guys from The Daily Wire, Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump, Piers Morgan,

00:00:47.480 James Woods, Glenn Greenwald, our National Review favorites, and many, many more. We've got some

00:00:53.800 big surprises in the midst for you too, so you'll have to wait to find out who those are. We'll also

00:00:59.620 have your MK Media Podcast Network hosts with us on the road, Maureen, Emily Jashinsky, Mark Halperin,

00:01:05.340 Link Lauren. It's going to be so fun. I can't wait. The only hard part about this was limiting it to 10

00:01:12.420 because I'm tired. I have only the limited number of hours in the day and so many children, so we

00:01:21.240 limited it to 10 for this go-round, and if this goes well, then maybe we'll do more. But for this

00:01:26.880 first outing, we're going to be going to Texas, Florida, New York, Georgia, California, and Arizona.

00:01:33.100 We actually looked, we cast a wide net and looked at where our biggest audiences are because that

00:01:38.740 would make sense, you know, and these are some of the places. I'm like, California, which I had been

00:01:45.340 told, but man, we've got a lot of cities in California, believe it or not, where the MK show

00:01:49.640 is a big hit. California really is 40% red. They just have less than 20% voting rights. It's absolutely

00:01:57.160 outrageous, but my California friends, I don't have to tell you that. Anyway, please come, find out more

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00:02:16.580 you don't have to worry about any of that nonsense. It's so annoying when people do that. I do not sell

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00:02:49.380 also get, you know, other fun. Like once a week, I send an email. So anyway, it's a great deal, and I hope to

00:02:54.400 see all of you in person soon. I'm actually really looking forward to getting on the road. I've done this

00:02:59.580 for others. I did it for Tucker last year, and the energy on the road was so great. It was intense, and it was

00:03:08.960 uplifting, and, you know, meeting all of you firsthand, the listeners and the viewers who make the show

00:03:15.200 what it is, because, of course, some of them were at the Tucker event, too. It was just amazing. It's not the same

00:03:22.060 as when you see somebody on the street or at an event. Everyone's there. Like, it's like a party of your

00:03:27.100 great friends, and, you know, let's face it. We all, not identical, but we all have a lot of very

00:03:31.940 similar interests and similar opinions on things, and so it's fun. A lot of these folks, I mentioned

00:03:37.380 California, are used to living in a town or a state or whatever where they're in a minority, and it still

00:03:43.020 feels, like, very daring to say how you actually feel about these controversial issues, so it's fun to

00:03:47.400 get together and be able to say it loud and proud together and laugh about how wrong everybody else is.

00:03:52.560 Um, anyway, please check it out, megankelly.com. Okay, and speaking of all that, I mean, really,

00:03:59.880 this is the perfect guest to begin with on that front, because we start with an incredible story

00:04:03.660 out of the UK and a Megyn Kelly show exclusive. Last week, Irish comedy writer Graham Linehan was

00:04:10.440 arrested at Heathrow Airport by five armed officers over three tweets. Yes, three posts on X.

00:04:21.220 Three, regarding the transgender issue, got him arrested by five armed officers before he even

00:04:30.680 got into London. He was still at Heathrow. He hadn't really stepped a foot out of the airport,

00:04:36.380 and they treated this man like he was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed touching down in the UK. Now,

00:04:44.440 Graham's best known for his creation of the hit comedy series Father Ted. Many Americans may not be

00:04:50.820 familiar with it. Here's a clip.

00:04:52.780 Attention, lady shoppers. Gifts for husbands, like pipes and slippers are now available on the first

00:04:58.720 floor.

00:05:00.780 Who's got the most boring voice?

00:05:02.240 What?

00:05:02.700 Of the lot of us, who's got the most boring voice?

00:05:04.700 That'll be me, Ted.

00:05:06.560 Listen, this is what we're going to do.

00:05:09.640 What's going on?

00:05:10.800 I think Ted has a plan.

00:05:12.700 No, I mean in general.

00:05:14.280 Oh, I can't find a way out of the laundry section.

00:05:17.220 Ladies and gentlemen, could you please bring your purchases to the checkout as the store

00:05:25.720 is about to close? Hurry up. Come on. Hurry up, will you?

00:05:30.940 Not that way for fix-sick.

00:05:32.560 The other way.

00:05:34.180 Go!

00:05:34.680 Go!

00:05:42.760 Go!

00:05:44.060 Go!

00:05:44.500 All right, it's been a listening audience. It's classic, irreverent British humor.

00:05:59.860 This thing was, to say it was a hit is to understate, you know, that's like saying,

00:06:04.420 well, you know, Friends was a hit. Yeah, this was a huge hit. And he did very well and he's

00:06:09.060 very well known. And instead of most public figures who are too cowardly to, once they've

00:06:18.500 made their money and made their name, ever speak out on an issue as controversial as the trans

00:06:23.700 issue, Graham did. In fact, he was an early advocate for sanity on this issue. And it has

00:06:32.420 happened, it has come at great cost to him, this, this courage of his. It's ridiculous how much he's

00:06:39.220 lost just because of his willingness to speak truth on this issue. He's been fighting back

00:06:46.060 against the trans madness for years, notwithstanding the suffering it's caused in his, not just

00:06:53.040 professional, but his personal life as well. All the way up to now, his freedom being endangered

00:06:59.240 and still says he will not be silenced. He joins me now for his first on-camera interview

00:07:04.540 since his arrest days ago. All right. Do you want to know about something positive and upbeat?

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00:07:59.220 gone. You'll thank me. Graham, welcome. Hi, Megan. Thank you very much. It's an honor to have you here.

00:08:07.480 Let's just start before we get to the absurdity of what happened at Heathrow with what made you speak

00:08:14.400 out about this issue early on because you really were pretty early in the battle. And, you know,

00:08:20.880 like I said, it was not without risk when you were, it was with more risk when you first started

00:08:25.160 speaking about it. Oh, yeah. It was instant. I was canceled instantly. I shared an article that was,

00:08:34.220 you know, very compassionate and about both sides of the debate written by a brilliant woman over here

00:08:42.360 called Heather Brunskill Evans. And I actually shared it when I was in my hospital bed. And I

00:08:49.500 think possibly because I was coming out of a operation and I was a bit giddy on morphine.

00:08:56.020 And I remember thinking to myself, why am I so scared to get into this debate? You know,

00:09:00.940 it's clearly correct. And I sent off of that article. And within moments, the first response,

00:09:09.720 one of the first responses that came back was, I wish the cancer had won, you know. So that

00:09:16.480 continued. First of all, it was basically, you know, the shock troops of the internet piling in,

00:09:23.360 doing edited screenshots of my tweets that made it look like I was saying different things,

00:09:28.960 sometimes making up things entirely. There was a Photoshop of a fake apology that I sent to the

00:09:35.220 Women of Mumsnet, which is a popular website over here, a feminist website or woman's website.

00:09:41.400 And they did a fake Photoshop of me apologizing for sending people dick pics. So this was like

00:09:48.560 constant. And it just kept happening. And but the thing is, I thought the message was so important

00:09:54.940 that, you know, women need single sex bases. I thought that was very obvious. Women need fair

00:10:00.380 sports. I thought that was very obvious. Men shouldn't be in women's prisons. I thought that

00:10:04.500 was very obvious. And children shouldn't be mutilated and sterilized in gender clinics.

00:10:09.540 And I genuinely thought that all my friends would come rallying to my side, all the people,

00:10:14.360 all the friendships I've made over my whole career. And not a single person stood up for me.

00:10:20.340 So I started to be targeted by actually a very small group of trans identified men,

00:10:26.740 one of whom is a convicted sex offender who sexually assaulted a boy when he was 14 years old.

00:10:33.460 And these men have the police wrapped around their fingers, not just me who's been arrested.

00:10:39.420 There has been, you know, several dozens of women arrested in the UK over the last eight years.

00:10:46.340 And again, these women are suffering in silence because no one with any authority will stand up

00:10:52.900 to them. You know, Keir Starmer came into power saying that he would end the culture wars,

00:10:57.480 but he hasn't. He's just hidden from, hid from them. So as a result, women are being called into court,

00:11:05.740 put into cells. And, and, you know, the, the police over here are basically working for trans activists

00:11:13.760 and trans, I want to make it very clear. I'm not talking about trans identified people. There's a lot

00:11:20.040 of people who are trans identified who are very good, very decent. Uh, some of them are confused.

00:11:25.600 Uh, some of them are just gender nonconforming. Um, but, uh, trans activists without wanting to put

00:11:33.440 too much of a gloss on it are the scum of the earth. They really are. They are the absolute worst.

00:11:38.980 Yeah. They are 100% bullies and nine times out of 10 it's men. I mean, 99% of them are men,

00:11:47.720 uh, masquerading as women who want to bully. And usually it's women. They want to bully women

00:11:53.320 right out of their spaces and their rights. And to, to infrequently have we had really active men

00:12:01.160 standing up for us too. So it's, it's amazing. You know, I mean, billboard Chris is one of them.

00:12:06.420 Matt Walsh is one of them. You're one of them, you know, the ones who do it and do it loud.

00:12:11.800 We recognize, we see, and it's wonderful. It's great. And I think most women who are involved

00:12:17.280 in this fight really appreciate it. Not that we wouldn't do it without men, but there've been

00:12:21.420 some men who have been truly heroic and not lying down for this shit. And you're one of them.

00:12:26.820 And honestly, in the UK, it's even more rare because you don't have the free speech protections

00:12:31.240 that we have here. And in general, the UK is closer to Canada. You know, it just has,

00:12:36.860 like, it just seems to me as a country, they're much more willing to go along with this woke

00:12:42.660 bullshit than they should be. And, uh, you know, we've seen it time and time again, but you're not

00:12:48.360 like that. Obviously we have to mention she's not a man, but JK Rowling has been totally fearless

00:12:53.840 from the very beginning on all of this. And she's been defending you in the wake of this absurd arrest.

00:12:58.320 So you, you not only did not have your colleagues stand by you, you lost your marriage. Um, your

00:13:07.200 health went downhill. I mean, I don't want to skip right over that because when you invite this kind

00:13:13.800 of stress and harassment, and I do use that word harassment as a legal matter, you've been legally

00:13:19.460 harassed by these trans activists. Um, it comes at a physical and personal cost that people too

00:13:27.360 frequently glossed by. Can you speak to it a bit? Well, yeah, I mean, uh, the, the person I mentioned

00:13:34.480 earlier, the sex offender, he, he released my home address online when I was, when I was still at the

00:13:39.920 family home, which absolutely, you know, terrified my wife. And even recently, oh, actually that's,

00:13:46.260 sorry, that's to do with my current trial. I can't, I can't talk about my current trial,

00:13:49.600 but, um, they released our family address, uh, um, at home because I used, you know, as the writer of

00:13:56.860 Father Ted, I was fairly well liked. So neither of us thought we had to be careful, uh, with our

00:14:02.360 online footprint. But of course, when it flipped and I became public enemy number one, all the things

00:14:09.120 that we put online, uh, were kind of, uh, uh, rifled through by trans activists for anything they could

00:14:15.600 use against me. And the first thing was my address. Uh, then they started calling the police on me and

00:14:20.380 the police came to our home one morning, one Sunday morning, which really upset my wife. Um,

00:14:25.780 and, um, it was, uh, since then it's been, you know, never ending. It's, uh, I've been visited by

00:14:33.460 the police, I think three times now, not including the arrest. Um, yeah. Oh yeah. They came to my home.

00:14:40.600 Uh, uh, uh, no, is it three times? Yeah. Once at my home, once at a flat and, uh, uh, once in London

00:14:48.460 and, you know, I moved from Norwich to London when, when, when I got separated and, um, uh, and yeah,

00:14:56.040 and I've never been out of litigation in this whole fight. I'm constantly being sued. I'm being sued

00:15:01.600 at the moment by, by a particularly rabid trans activist named David Paisley, who's a C-list actor

00:15:07.980 who, uh, who, you know, has, has been involved in some appalling harassment of women. And it's just

00:15:15.340 constant. I'm never not on edge in, in my, in the, in the country I moved to. I I'm Irish, but I moved

00:15:23.020 to the UK, uh, in the early mid nineties. And, um, I'm just always on edge now here because I never know

00:15:30.540 if I'm going to be arrested or, uh, or attacked in the street or whatever it happens to be. Because

00:15:36.180 as you know, trans activists, apart from anything else, are very violent and very volatile. So, um,

00:15:41.200 it's, it's, it's just not a fun place for me anymore. So that's why I eventually moved to Arizona.

00:15:47.000 But, you know, you, you said something at one point that really resonated with me, which was you

00:15:52.360 have a daughter and we kind of throw that out sometimes. Like I'm speaking for my daughter

00:15:56.720 because she can't speak up for herself, you know, when our, when our daughters are young in particular,

00:16:00.200 but this, this really is that you said, um, the quote was, um, let's see.

00:16:09.620 Okay. I don't want my daughter to go into college and have a male bodied person whose story she

00:16:15.080 doesn't know in the toilet with her. She cannot object to it. So I had to take the fight on for

00:16:20.680 her. Now that the, the sentence she cannot object to it is true in a number of ways, right? Sometimes

00:16:26.120 they're too little to actually be able to object. And sometimes they're old enough to actually form

00:16:30.200 the words, but the social cost to a minor girl whose life is in front of her, who still hasn't

00:16:38.780 gotten her first job or into college is enormous. I mean, it's next to impossible for these girls to

00:16:47.560 actually speak out about it, which is why we see so many of them fewer and fewer these days are more

00:16:53.140 are saying something, but still the vast majority don't standing there like hostages on their sports

00:16:59.600 teams. When the enormous male joins the basketball team and they, they look like, sure, I'm fine with

00:17:05.860 it. Trans rights are human rights. And that is so right. If, if those of us who are fully grown

00:17:13.400 employed and have established ourselves in one way, shape or form, don't take the risk for them.

00:17:19.180 No one will. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. And when you, and when you look at all these, uh, all these

00:17:25.920 young girls in sports teams in America, they've learned the lesson that most adults do not care

00:17:32.300 about women or girls. And in fact, they will put the, the, the, uh, desires of men over the safety of

00:17:39.600 women. I, I find that I think this, the trans movement is the greatest insult, uh, that women have

00:17:45.960 ever faced. And as to what you, to what you were saying earlier, the other thing about the trans

00:17:50.720 movement, excuse me, the other thing about the trans movement is women all, all through it, get a

00:17:56.500 terrible deal from it. You know, if a man transitions, he just has to put a dress on and, and say, I'm

00:18:02.440 trans. And suddenly everyone thinks he's trans. But when, when women do it, they get double mastectomies,

00:18:08.380 they get, uh, they get, uh, sterilized, you know, they get, they come out of it with their health

00:18:13.540 absolutely destroyed. Yeah. You know, I don't know whether you ever saw, but there was a

00:18:17.620 heartbreaking, um, you know, uh, front, front seat video done by a woman. And, you know, he,

00:18:25.140 she looks like a balding 40 year old man, you know, because the testosterone has just wreaked havoc,

00:18:31.380 uh, with, with her system. And she thought she was going to turn into a young man. But in fact,

00:18:37.880 what people don't realize about testosterone and women is that every single woman who is on

00:18:43.220 testosterone will go into early menopause, you know, and that brings with it. That's right.

00:18:48.940 Yeah. That brings with it threat of dementia, uh, increased threat of a heart attack is another

00:18:54.200 thing that these women have to face. And I don't know if you notice, have you ever seen Ellen or Ellen

00:18:59.320 stroke Elliot page speak? Um, you'll notice she has that little kind of kazoo voice. That's because

00:19:06.920 her vocal cords have been swollen by the testosterone and her slender female neck is not

00:19:13.060 able for it. So that's why you'll see a lot of these trans men have the same voice.

00:19:17.280 I did not know that, but no trans person ever lands the voice. The voice is a dead giveaway. Even

00:19:24.140 the ones who can arguably pass as soon as they start speaking, it's so obvious and it's

00:19:29.300 so uncomfortable. It's, it's genuinely jarring because even if they've managed to fool you,

00:19:35.640 suddenly you're like, okay, I know what this is and it's a fraud. And I don't know actually

00:19:40.800 whether I'm dealing with a dangerous person or not, because there is a high rate of violence with

00:19:45.600 some of these people. And on top of that, there's also a very high number of these male to female,

00:19:51.840 in other words, men pretending to be women, trans people who are autogynophiles who are in the

00:19:56.200 middle of not gender confusion, but a sexual fetish who want to get off on putting by putting

00:20:02.360 on a dress next to your daughter or mine or me. And we have a society, both yours and mine still

00:20:09.320 that say, shut up and take it like a good girl, be nice about it. Or there's something wrong with

00:20:15.760 you or you Graham trying to stand up for your daughter. You're something wrong with you. You're

00:20:19.800 a bully deviant who, who hates trans people and hates people who are different as opposed to

00:20:25.180 someone who cares about safety and appropriate boundaries. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, people

00:20:30.520 call me a monomaniacal on this, you know, but I would, I would, uh, first of all, I challenge anyone

00:20:36.380 not to be monomaniacal, uh, about an issue when it's been used to destroy your life and career. Um,

00:20:44.140 but the other thing is how can people not be monomaniacal about a, uh, a thing which damages

00:20:50.500 children, you know, which puts women in danger. Yes. The Scottish, the Scottish, I mean, we still

00:20:56.640 have men in women's prisons, both here and in the U S and it's an absolutely disgraceful ongoing

00:21:03.300 situation. And I, and I just find it extraordinary that something as clearly wrong as that. I heard one

00:21:09.820 statistic, which might be of interest to your viewers, apparently like, I can't remember it's

00:21:14.560 every time I say the number, it doesn't sound right because it's so high, but it is really high.

00:21:19.900 Let's say it's over 80%, but I am minimizing it. Um, 80% of women or over 80% of women in prisons,

00:21:27.600 uh, have blunt force trauma to the head caused by a partner at some point. So these, these,

00:21:34.780 and also these women are not in for serious crimes. They're in for petty theft. They're in for all,

00:21:39.380 you know, those kinds of, and all, also there's, there's often a man behind these crimes. So these

00:21:44.880 women are, are, are far more vulnerable than the male prison population. And they are being housed

00:21:51.780 with not just men, but some of the worst men in the world, you know, Lisa, Lisa Nandy over here.

00:21:58.300 Predators. Yeah. And the test of whether they're real trans or not is whether you get raped.

00:22:04.080 That's the trans test. You know, if you, if you get raped, they're not a real trans person,

00:22:08.800 but if you don't get raped, Oh, they are a real trans person. That's the transit. That's the

00:22:12.700 transactivist argument, you know? So women are the actual, uh, actual Guinea pigs in this, uh,

00:22:18.940 social experiment, you know, and it's, it's going to go. I don't know if, if, if I don't know how

00:22:24.760 long it's going to go on if people don't start speaking up.

00:22:27.180 No, the, the, the whole thing about like people, why aren't you outraged? It reminds me very much

00:22:33.460 of the bumper sticker that was all over the U S when George W. Bush was president and we had invaded

00:22:39.060 Iraq and we had two wars going. Um, obviously the Afghanistan one was brought upon us by Osama bin

00:22:45.140 Laden, but Iraq was very controversial. And the liberals used to ride around with bumper stickers

00:22:49.420 that read, if you're not outraged, you're not paying attention. And that's how I feel about this

00:22:55.800 issue. If you are not outraged, you're not paying attention. You point out about what the girls have

00:23:00.600 to go through. I mean, the entire forearm is missing on these young girls missing. It's been

00:23:05.120 gutted down to the bone as these derelict, disgusting, malpracticing everyday surgeons in

00:23:12.620 quote, mutilate their arms to try to create a fake phallus for these girls. Nine out of 10 of whom

00:23:18.840 are just upset. Mom and dad got divorced or have acne and normal, you know, puberty reluctance.

00:23:25.800 Or just the, just the uncomfortableness that comes from going through the change of your body

00:23:31.580 into a woman. It's insane. What we're doing. It's truly insane. So you, you find the courage

00:23:37.800 to speak up eventually your wife and you break up over all this stress. And as you, I think

00:23:43.200 sagely said, it's, it's not, you didn't have any problems in your marriage, but when you add

00:23:48.400 all these other layers of stress to an already stressed marriage, it's going to fracture.

00:23:53.640 It just is. So you lose your wife. You, you then lose your career. You guys were in the midst of

00:24:03.840 trying to take father Ted to the stage as a musical. And it was going swimmingly. You actually had some

00:24:11.040 big names signing on. You were doing like rehearsals. You had songs, you had a great ending. And the one

00:24:16.720 thing you thought was that your colleagues would stand by you. And yet.

00:24:22.860 Yeah. They just, they just, uh, one day I came down to, um, London for what I thought was a meeting

00:24:29.580 about the show. And, uh, the, uh, the guy who runs hat trick who produced father Ted, uh, he told me that, uh,

00:24:39.580 they wouldn't do it if I was involved and they offered me 200,000 pounds to walk away. Um, and, um, uh,

00:24:48.780 I remember I argued with him. I said, I said, you know, this is too important for me to stop talking

00:24:54.700 about. I said, young girls are being, are being, uh, uh, mutilated and sterilized in gender clinics.

00:25:00.660 And he shouted at me, I don't care, you know? So, um, that's what I was up against. And,

00:25:07.600 you know, I expected at least my co-writers, uh, Neil Hannan, who I've been friends with for most of my

00:25:14.460 life, Arthur Matthews, who I've been friends with for most of my life to stand up for me and, um,

00:25:19.840 and say, no, Graham's not a big, not a bigot. Of course, women need single sex spaces. Of course,

00:25:24.380 they need fair sports. And I begged them to, I begged them to, but they never did. They never,

00:25:29.360 they just refused to refuse point blank. So, um, you know, I, I, and, and that was kind of the story

00:25:36.660 with all my friends, you know, not a single one stood, stood by me. I went out to dinner with them

00:25:40.880 and I just asked them to please say something, anything that just, that just makes it sound

00:25:46.100 like I'm not insane. Cause one of the problems with this, Megan is, is just, um, people don't

00:25:50.860 believe you. People don't believe it's happening because they can't, they can't take on the fact

00:25:55.840 that the entire of society is lying to them over here in the UK. The BBC has been lying by omission

00:26:03.280 about this subject for the last eight years. Yes. You know, and the woman, I don't know,

00:26:07.960 I sent you a video of my, I went on to, I was ambushed on news night by Sarah Smith, um, uh,

00:26:15.260 who, who basically just made it all about my, uh, uh, the way I, I, I conducted myself online

00:26:20.980 again. Uh, you know, of course I was angry, you know, I was, I was furious all the time

00:26:26.580 because you're missing the issue. They're missing the issue. And, and Sarah Smith is now the head

00:26:31.860 of, uh, BBC, uh, North America. And I always worry when I see, when I see Americans taking

00:26:38.040 on these very, very left wing attitudes on Palestine and on the trans issue, I, I do wonder

00:26:45.720 how much of it is because a lot of liberals over there are sort of Anglophiles, you know,

00:26:50.240 which is very, which is very, very nice of them, but, but they, they take papers like the

00:26:55.240 Guardian too seriously, uh, channels like the BBC too seriously. And all these institutions

00:27:00.500 have been completely captured. It's like a war has been fought without a battle, without

00:27:05.860 a bullet fired. And all these, all these lunatics now have their feet under the table and are

00:27:11.760 doing everything they can to, to continue to confuse the British public about what's going

00:27:16.560 on.

00:27:16.840 With that, what you said is exactly true. We're talking about rhetorical bullets. And by that

00:27:21.220 we mean truth. The, the, the, our side let these trans activists take over. They changed

00:27:29.620 laws in the UK and here in the United States. All like all these blue States in America have

00:27:37.080 a legal mandate to let boys who say their girls use the girls bathroom. And in many cases be

00:27:46.140 on the girls sports team. And in many cases mandate the use of whatever preferred pronoun

00:27:52.460 that kid has. And in New York city, for example, where we used to live mandates teachers to keep

00:27:59.060 it a secret from the parents. If the child says, don't tell my parents. So now you're encouraging

00:28:04.280 grooming behavior, secrets between minors and adults who are supposed to be supervising them

00:28:10.500 during the day, excluding the pair. I mean, it's true insanity. And our side laid down, took a nap

00:28:16.620 and said, don't pay any attention to this or you're a bigot. And that's, we fired no rhetorical

00:28:21.020 bullets. We, we kept our mouths shut. If anything, we said, Oh, good for you. Okay. Good for you.

00:28:27.620 Right. Because in the beginning, some people were lying. Like Malcolm Gladwell recently came out and

00:28:32.980 said he knew it was bullshit and he lied. Um, I think most of us are on the field where I was

00:28:39.020 in the initial days of these things, which was, I don't want to be a bully. And I saw trans people

00:28:46.100 as an extension of LGB. And it was like, okay, you know, this is something they're grappling with a

00:28:52.480 legit issue. We shouldn't bully them. And it just turned out to be something very, very different

00:28:58.640 than that. And I think now we're seeing what's real. And if you don't have the courage now, I have

00:29:03.040 no time for you. I mean, if you don't speak up now, there's something wrong with you. Okay. Which

00:29:08.560 leads me back to your story, Graham. So you, you don't let up. You've lost your wife. You've lost your

00:29:14.060 colleagues. You lost this play, this musical, which didn't happen, even though you could have really

00:29:18.620 used the money and you're still going. You're, you're not shutting up. You're like a dog with a

00:29:24.520 bone and you send out three totally benign tweets, posts on X. I mean, I read them to the audience

00:29:34.400 when you got arrested, but I'm going to reread them for today's audience. They were all in April,

00:29:39.000 April 19th. One was, it showed a picture of a trans rights rally with the caption,

00:29:43.200 a photo you can smell. One was same day in reply to that picture and follow-up. You wrote,

00:29:49.900 I hate them. Misogynists and homophobes. Fuck them. And then April 20th, the next day you posted,

00:29:58.300 if a trans identified male is in a female only space, he is committing a violent, abusive act.

00:30:05.300 Make a scene, call the cops. And if all else fails, punch him in the balls. And these are the tweets

00:30:12.700 that led to what happened to you last week. So you were in Arizona, you've been living in Arizona,

00:30:20.060 but you had to go back to the UK because you're in this legal dispute with this trans activist as a

00:30:25.800 male pretending to be a female who you may not be able to say anything about it, but I can.

00:30:30.600 So this guy got in your face with this video camera at one of these events and seemed to be

00:30:37.880 following you around and seemed to be invading your privacy and your space. And you flicked the

00:30:43.260 phone out of the way and said something to him. And now he's suing you claiming, oh, he damaged my

00:30:48.900 phone and damaged me and whatever. These trans activists, in my opinion, are absolute fucking

00:30:54.580 lunatics. And the closer they come to you, the more you should run. I don't blame you for not wanting

00:30:59.800 to be within the same arm space as this person, but that'll play out in the UK courts, however it plays

00:31:04.380 out. It's not, it's really not why you're here. You went over there because you had to in connection

00:31:09.280 with that case. You, you landed Heathrow. Were you expecting any sort of problem?

00:31:16.540 Well, uh, when you said I hardly got out of the airport, I didn't get out of the plane,

00:31:21.600 you know, the plane land. Yeah. Yeah. The plane landed. Well, I got out of the plane. I took a step

00:31:26.600 out of the plane, but the plane landed. And, um, uh, you know, people were told to stay in their seats.

00:31:33.280 And I thought something was, was up, you know, uh, uh, in terms of, you know, just some normal

00:31:39.580 airport problem. And then, um, they called my name out, you know, and as soon as they called my

00:31:45.760 name, I, I sort of started to realize, I started, I sort of knew what was happening because, you know,

00:31:50.980 it's, it's kind of what I was, it's something I expect to be honest. I expect to be arrested by the

00:31:56.020 police because they follow every single complaint. But here's the thing. I was on my way back for a

00:32:01.020 trial. Now they must've known that. So they, I think did it deliberately. And the way it works

00:32:06.680 over here, when you're arrested for, you know, free speech tweeting crimes is they just put you

00:32:12.520 in a cell for as long as they can. So I was in a cell for something like 12 hours. Um, and it's,

00:32:18.220 that's the punishment. We, we have a phrase over here among, you know, GC, gender critical and

00:32:23.560 feminist, uh, in feminist circles. Um, the process is the punishment. And, uh, for eight

00:32:30.480 years, you know, women have been put through this process. Some of them have suffered far

00:32:35.120 more than me. And, uh, it's, you know, the, the British police are just willing participants.

00:32:40.920 I did think it was funny that, um, that the first thing all these Arizonian people saw when

00:32:47.160 the plane landed was a comedy writer being arrested for tweets. It was the most perfect and appropriate

00:32:53.160 welcome to the UK they could have got really, you know, but, uh, but yeah, so they, they brought me

00:32:58.880 out and I, I, uh, they said, we want to speak to you. And I've been met by the police before at

00:33:05.940 airports. I was met by the police in New Zealand and they were very kind, sweet to me. And they just

00:33:10.260 wanted to know my movement so, so that, uh, they could provide, uh, uh, an unmarked car just to keep

00:33:16.940 an eye on things, um, in case trans activists, uh, uh, uh, uh, were a problem. But so I, I didn't

00:33:24.060 immediately, uh, think they were going to arrest me, but they did ask me, they said, can we go

00:33:30.480 somewhere private to speak? So we went down this kind of tunnel and through a doorway and they stood

00:33:36.660 around me and he said, your passport is on a wanted list or something, or it was flagged up or

00:33:43.240 something. And, uh, you're being arrested for, uh, uh, you know, a tweet. He only thought it was

00:33:49.780 one, I think it was the one about, um, punch him in the balls. And, and I went a bit nuts because

00:33:56.040 I just couldn't believe it. Uh, you know, they tried to, they were even going to handcuff me

00:34:00.460 because I was so out of control. And I said, you're not, you're not going to put fucking cuffs

00:34:04.620 on me for defending women's rights. And finally, they, they very kindly, I think, because I don't

00:34:10.720 think, I don't blame the police for this. You know, the police don't believe any of this. The

00:34:14.240 police, unfortunately are, are just, I mean, you know, the old phrase, they're just following orders.

00:34:20.320 Um, and they have no idea what's going on. They don't understand this issue. And so they're just

00:34:25.420 doing what they're told. So like, I calmed down. I started to get on quite well with the, with the

00:34:31.000 officers, but then I, and then I was taken into a van, uh, because, because I asked them, please don't

00:34:37.200 march me through the airport, you know? So they brought a van around on the, uh, tarmac or

00:34:42.500 whatever you call it. Uh, and, uh, and I went to it and, and I thought, oh, at least I'm, at least

00:34:47.620 this is a bit, you know, civilized. And then I saw that I was going to be put in a, like a little

00:34:52.560 white kind of corner of the van where you have to sit like this and you can't stretch out your legs.

00:34:58.240 And, and I just thought, holy shit, they're really going to do this, you know? Um, and then that just

00:35:04.220 began a night of being processed, uh, going into my cell. Luckily I was exhausted from the flight

00:35:11.740 because I could never sleep on planes. So I slept in the cell and that killed a few hours. But I

00:35:17.340 genuinely think the reason I was, I was kept was, was, you know, processes to punishment. They just

00:35:23.360 wanted to make me frightened of tweeting, of speaking my mind, you know? And that's what they've been doing.

00:35:31.280 Who ordered it? Do we know? I think it was a mid-level person. I don't think it was anyone

00:35:36.700 big. Uh, I, I don't know really. Um, but when you say the police aren't to blame,

00:35:42.460 who is to blame? Oh yeah. Well, you know, whoever ordered it is to blame. I'm talking about the,

00:35:48.020 the, the, you know, rank and file, uh, the, the, whoever ordered it is just an idiot. You know,

00:35:54.360 I mean, this is, this is blown back in their face so much better than I could ever have hoped.

00:35:59.600 And it's been good. It's been, yeah, it's been fantastic over here. I'm getting thumbs up from

00:36:04.580 cabbies and I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm getting lots of little secret smiles from people. Um, it's been

00:36:10.840 wonderful, you know, and they just, as that's the thing about trans activists, they always,

00:36:16.240 always overreach, you know? Uh, yes. And when, when they overreach, that's when, uh, you know,

00:36:22.540 people start to sit up and take notice. Yeah. In my opinion, it's because they're crazy.

00:36:26.940 They're crazy. They're not able to accurately gauge the situation and weigh risks and rewards.

00:36:34.440 They are delusional. And so they think they're going to get a different outcome than they are.

00:36:39.200 And it's because in part of the discussion we had where we rolled over and went to sleep for all

00:36:44.060 those years. And they're used to Americans and English, uh, citizens doing that and people

00:36:48.740 throughout the UK, and we're not doing that anymore. So it's very frustrating to them and it's

00:36:53.520 leading to their own bad behavior and terrible results. So in a way, you know, you're a

00:36:58.180 sacrificial lamb, Graham, but thank you because we need that. I mean, easy for me to say, but we do

00:37:04.300 need that. So what, by the way, you're lucky because here in the United States, there's a very high

00:37:09.060 likelihood you would have been subjected to a strip search. So let's be glad it doesn't sound like

00:37:12.600 you had to go through that, but were they armed? I think that would have been, yeah, no, I think they

00:37:19.000 would have been, that would have been more punishment for them, uh, if I'd been strip searched. Uh, yeah,

00:37:23.960 they were armed, but, but, but, but, but, but I, but, but I must, I actually must make it clear. It was

00:37:28.680 very disturbing to see armed police officers, but it is normal for Heathrow officers to be armed. Okay.

00:37:34.920 Simply. But they had like a one cop per limb and then an extra for like your head to keep your mouth

00:37:40.460 shut, I guess, like five on one. Uh, like, ah, truly like you were some sort of terrorist is how it

00:37:46.800 sounds to me. So they take you to the jail and then you wound up having heart problems, like your

00:37:51.320 blood pressure soared. You were under a lot of stress. You wound up having to get referred for

00:37:55.840 medical help. So this is just further evidence of the level of stress. This is, this does not come

00:38:01.680 without stress for you. You know, like it doesn't come without stress for anybody. Honestly, like I,

00:38:08.760 I know a lot of people in media who are very outspoken on a lot of issues and people who my audience

00:38:15.620 would think don't stress out. Like they, whatever, they keep coveting controversy. And I am here to

00:38:21.260 tell you, they do stress out. They get stressed. They just refuse to back down. Like there's just

00:38:27.080 a certain kind of person that just says, I don't care. Like I will take it. And that's what you're

00:38:31.780 going through from the sound of it. We do have some video of the arrest. Um, it was posted via the

00:38:36.340 sun. Let's watch a little bit of it here in Sot 4. It's all.

00:38:40.220 It's alleged that on the 19th of April 2025. It's alleged that on April 19th, you published a post

00:38:45.860 action. On the grounds of sexual orientation. I can't tell you what the post was, he says.

00:38:58.660 You fucking idiot. Graham says.

00:39:07.120 I'm going to sue you under the ground.

00:39:19.800 Wow. How do you feel when you hear that?

00:39:43.320 Well, I recorded it, you know, uh, I luckily had the, had the, uh, uh, you know, gumption to,

00:39:52.040 uh, press record on my favorite transcription app. Um, and, uh, yeah, you know, I, I only wish

00:39:58.620 the sound had been better and people had heard more of it, you know, but, uh, again, uh, you know,

00:40:03.560 when I said, I'll sue you all, it would have been very strange for me to sue the five cops who

00:40:08.560 picked me up, but I was, I was sort of, you know, I was so angry. I, I couldn't think straight,

00:40:14.120 you know? Um, but, uh, but I am suing them now. I'm suing the police. Um, and, uh, for wrongful

00:40:21.040 arrest. And, uh, I think something imprisonment, wrongful imprisonment or something like that.

00:40:26.360 False imprisonment.

00:40:27.620 False imprisonment. Excuse me. Yes. And, uh, uh, yeah, this is just going to, they, the brilliant

00:40:34.920 thing is they were trying to silence me, but I think what might've happened is that I'm going

00:40:39.640 to make them very nervous about arresting people for this type of thing in the future.

00:40:43.320 They picked on the wrong mofo.

00:40:46.940 Yeah, hopefully, hopefully.

00:40:48.620 Well, because you showed up to your court hearing in one of, like I mentioned billboard Chris,

00:40:54.020 who's a hero, and he's constantly wearing these billboards. It's like, like the sandwich boards,

00:40:58.020 the one in the front and the one in the back speaking up for women. And that's how you showed

00:41:02.160 up to your court hearing. There's right. Is it your court hearing?

00:41:05.580 No, no.

00:41:06.060 The front of it reads, there's no such thing as a transgender child on the front. Where,

00:41:10.300 where was this Graham?

00:41:11.980 Uh, that was outside the magistrate's court. That was a friend of mine. Who's I think his

00:41:15.800 name is Chris, who, who actually has those boards and Oh no, it's not Chris. It couldn't

00:41:20.260 be Chris. It's someone else. Steve, I think. Uh, and he, um, does the same, he's been influenced

00:41:25.860 by billboard Chris to do the same thing. And just like billboard Chris, he gets punched

00:41:30.140 and water thrown over him and, uh, all sorts of things by people who think they're good

00:41:35.120 people. You know, it's, uh, he's very, he's very brave, very brave. But I, but I just grabbed

00:41:41.520 this thing and put it up. No, but that's good. What do you mean? You don't want to even take

00:41:45.760 credit for doing that. That's a brave thing to do when you are being arrested and punished

00:41:49.500 for speech. You double down on the exact same speech. So here's the thing that's really

00:41:55.000 to keep, it's very important to keep reminding people of the issues. They keep trying to focus

00:42:00.040 on, you know, my, my conduct, my behavior, which has been influenced by everything I've

00:42:05.520 been through. So I, so I always trying to break through that and say, no, this is about

00:42:10.500 kids being sterilized and mutilated. This is about men in women's prisons and sports. You

00:42:15.080 know, this is an incredibly important issue and everyone should be paying attention to

00:42:19.340 it. My speech about the problem is not the problem. The problem is the problem. Address

00:42:26.060 that deal with that. So here, the ultimate irony of this whole thing is that in the UK,

00:42:32.020 they are letting child rapists go free. They're letting them out without bail. They're letting

00:42:40.460 them out without prison time. They are letting JK Rowling, who I mentioned a moment ago, get harassed

00:42:49.020 with daily death and rape threats. Kick them in the balls is the most controversial thing you

00:42:56.460 said. And you're a comedy writer that JK Rowling. Here's just a sampling. I mean, we, we pulled just

00:43:02.700 a few just cause we were kind of curious. I'm just going to read for some of the audience. What

00:43:06.540 just a quick search brought up for JK Rowling, bitch, I'll kill you. Kill JK Rowling. I'll kill JK

00:43:13.660 Rowling myself. I'm going to kill you. He's somebody says the JK stands for just kill you. I'm going to

00:43:18.940 euthanize your old ass. I wish you two very nice pipe bombs in your mailbox. I like the idea of

00:43:25.720 bombs when only I don't mail them to people I despise. Take note. A pipe bomb would be too kind.

00:43:30.880 Okay. Forgive me JK for reading those out loud, but the point is nothing, nothing. Where are those

00:43:36.000 people not arrested? She's subjected to this daily. And those five cops don't show up to arrest those

00:43:42.700 people. But you've got one benign tweet about if somebody goes into your daughter's space,

00:43:47.200 who's a male and won't get out, kick them in the balls and five cops are on you, Graham. So what's

00:43:52.440 going on?

00:43:54.440 Well, I, you know, I mean, those, most of those accounts are anonymous, you know,

00:43:59.060 there may even be far fewer of these, of these people than we think. And they're just using

00:44:04.620 multiple accounts. There's also a lot of kids who think it's their, their civil rights cause of this

00:44:11.180 generation. And kids speak in very intemperate ways and say disgusting things without realizing

00:44:17.140 what the person at the other end of it is facing. But it's always had that kind of imbalance. You

00:44:24.400 know, the people who are standing up against it tend to be tend to put their faces behind their

00:44:28.400 opinions. The people who are against it don't put their faces to their opinions. And also they never

00:44:33.280 even share their opinions. We're constantly asking questions like, what does trans mean? You know,

00:44:38.440 it used to mean transsexual, but now it seems to mean transsexual, transvestite and everything in

00:44:43.300 between. You know, they cannot answer these questions. They cannot engage in debate. And

00:44:48.380 because they can't engage in debate, their only tools are smears, violence, you know, legal threats.

00:44:57.340 They have nothing. They have nothing. This whole movement is based on nothing. It's a complete

00:45:04.480 mass delusion. It's a lie. So social, social contagion. What's going to happen to you now?

00:45:09.440 Right. What, what's going to happen to you? Are, are you on paper? Are you facing prison time for

00:45:14.360 this? If, if you get convicted, are you facing a trial? No, it's, it's, I, well, you know, whatever,

00:45:20.740 you know, if we get a bad result, we're going to appeal. Um, uh, and it's, we'll just go through it

00:45:26.520 all again. And again, the process is the punishment, you know, but do you have to go through a criminal

00:45:30.420 trial now? No, uh, no. Uh, the last thing, we're still actually in the current trial. I'm very

00:45:36.980 nervous about saying too much about it, but we, but we've got one day left on it. With the trans

00:45:40.880 activist who's coming after you for the phone. Yes. And I have to come back at the end of October

00:45:46.100 for that, you know, which really annoys me because I don't, I don't, at the moment, I don't really like

00:45:50.240 being in this country. You know, I feel like I'm a target and, um, you know, but I have to do it.

00:45:56.080 So I'm going to do it. And I'm, and I'm, I'm, I'm completely, uh, you know, I have no doubts

00:46:03.140 about anything I've done in this fight. You know, I have, uh, you know, any, any, like those three

00:46:08.860 tweets they picked, two of them were, two of them weren't my best, you know, uh, just, just angry.

00:46:15.200 Exactly. Angry. But, you know, that's what you're mad about. You weren't your most clever self.

00:46:19.900 Exactly. Exactly. And they, that's another thing they do is they cherry pick things that make you look

00:46:24.360 bad, you know, but the, the tweet about, uh, punching a man in the balls. If he comes into

00:46:30.220 your, uh, into a female only space, it is a violent and abusive act for a man to go into a woman's space

00:46:35.900 and any man, no matter how they identify who wants to do that is highly suspect, you know? So, um, uh,

00:46:44.280 I, I stand by everything I've said. I stand by everything I've done. It's always been as a result

00:46:49.560 of, if I've ever done anything, uh, uh, less than optimal, it's because I've been harassed to the

00:46:55.900 point of insanity sometimes, you know? Well, if you, if you can't, if you're not going to have a

00:46:59.940 trial, what does that mean? Are these just misdemeanor charges that you can plead to or, well, how does

00:47:05.300 this wrap up if not through a trial? It's, it's magistrate's court. So there's one more, there's one

00:47:10.960 more, uh, day of where, where we'll be bringing in more witnesses and then the... No, no, not, not the act,

00:47:16.560 not, not the trans activist case. The, the charges against you. Oh, you mean, oh, the latest one.

00:47:20.700 Oh, I don't think, I, I, I mean, they would be insane to pursue it. I'd say they're going to

00:47:26.640 drop the charges pretty quick. You know, they may, you know, I, I can't imagine they, they won't drop

00:47:32.460 the charges. Um, but if they do, it'll just be another chance for me to have a platform to try and

00:47:40.200 tell people what's going on, to try and stop gender. Like, you know, Wes Streeting over here is

00:47:46.000 talking about doing a kind of experiment or I don't know how you, uh, test on, on, on whether

00:47:51.900 puberty blockers are safe. We know they're not safe. We, all the data is in and WPATH, the

00:47:57.740 organization that sets all these protocols is a bunch of lunatics. I don't, I know you follow

00:48:03.840 Redux, Megan, but they, they discovered that WPATH on their website were linking to a site called

00:48:11.860 the eunuch archives and the eunuch archives is like a repository of short, short pornographic

00:48:18.600 stories about, sorry, short pornographic stories about castration. Okay. Something like 4,000 stories

00:48:29.080 or 40%, I can't remember what it was, were tagged minor. That is so disturbing. So that means that the

00:48:37.840 people who, who are setting up these protocols and they're, these protocols are all over the world

00:48:42.960 are also linking to a site that, that, uh, is for men who are aroused by the idea of children

00:48:49.460 cutting their, uh, penises off. It's, it's, that's WPATH.

00:48:53.840 Like you say, it's, it's hard to actually understand unless you live it, unless you're really

00:48:59.520 neck deep in it and you see how sick this is. I only have a minute left, Graham. What, what's

00:49:05.280 going to happen? Is the UK coming to its senses? I thought with the closing of Tavistock, with the

00:49:09.580 Cass report, it was coming to its senses. I now have greater doubts.

00:49:15.020 Yeah. Well, I don't know. I mean, this, we always knew, I think it's, it's coming to an end. The

00:49:20.520 trans movement is coming to an end. And we always knew that the last trashings would be the hardest

00:49:25.920 on people that they would be, they would become, um, you know, more vicious. Uh, they would

00:49:31.600 overreach more. Uh, and so it's come to pass, you know, they're, they're just trying everything

00:49:36.460 they can. Um, I'm just going to keep on tweeting and keep on doing my, my, my, I, I, I'm sort

00:49:43.540 of now a journalist and I, I have a sub stack that I, I keep up and I'm just going to keep

00:49:48.180 doing that until I'm sure it's not just dead, but buried. And the earth has been salted, you

00:49:53.560 know, this is because they tried to shut you up when they arrested you too, saying

00:49:57.040 you couldn't tweet about the case. That's now off and you're allowed to talk about it.

00:50:00.460 That's why you're here. Oh, but I got a very funny thing. I can tell you, Megan, that's

00:50:04.260 very short. Sorry. They told me, they told me not to contact the victims. That's a, that's

00:50:10.520 a condition of my bail. The victims. There's no victims. There's no victims. There's no one

00:50:17.400 mentioned in the tweets. Yes, exactly. Ridiculous, Graham. Listen, we're going to continue

00:50:21.980 watching it. And all of us here in American media are very interested in this, in particular

00:50:26.600 in the digital world. And the digital world is very powerful and we're watching. And you

00:50:31.680 know, I, I go on TV in the UK all the time and I'm certainly not going to shut up about

00:50:36.340 this. They need to lay off of you. This is outrageous. We'll continue following it. Graham,

00:50:40.440 thank you for your courage. Everybody support Graham by buying his book. It's called Tough

00:50:44.920 Crowd, How I Made and Lost a Career in Comedy. Unbelievable. Rich and Charlie of National

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00:51:59.700 Joining me now, Rich Lowry and Charles C.W. Cook of National Review. Find all of their work by

00:52:11.600 becoming an NR Plus subscriber today. Highly recommend becoming an NR Plus subscriber.

00:52:17.640 Love National Review. Guys, welcome back. I'm going to get to the biggest news story of the day,

00:52:22.960 which is the murder of this poor Ukrainian refugee in Charlotte, North Carolina in one second. But I

00:52:28.520 just got to ask you, I'll start with you, Charlie, because I know you posted a piece on NR for this

00:52:32.440 about the Graham Linehan story. And actually, before I do, I want to tell the audience that

00:52:37.420 he told us during the break that he's lost how many thousands of subscribers? A couple hundred

00:52:45.620 thousand subscribers, or not subscribers, but followers on his X account since he was arrested.

00:52:51.580 These are woke leftist, I think, UK residents who are abandoning Graham because they didn't realize

00:52:57.360 that he was pro-women's rights. And so go follow him. It's at G. Linner, L-I-N-N-E-R,

00:53:06.420 at G. Linner, L-I-N-N-E-R, so that we can make up the difference because he should not suffer

00:53:11.340 in any way, shape, or form as a result of doing this. Charlie, can you believe this nonsense?

00:53:19.000 Yes and no. Can I just say something very quickly, Megan, about Graham Linehan? Obviously,

00:53:23.000 we're talking here about the ordeal he just went through and the views that he's expressed and so

00:53:28.140 on. But this sometimes gets lost. He is a genius. When I was a kid, he wrote this comedy series

00:53:35.020 called Big Train. There's two seasons of it. It's one of the funniest things I've ever seen. He wrote

00:53:39.400 The IT Crowd. He wrote Black Books. Obviously, he wrote Father Ted. This is a guy, it wasn't just that

00:53:44.200 he threw away a career. He threw away the career to stand up for this. I mean, this is a man who is one

00:53:51.340 of the funniest men in the history of British comedy. And I think maybe sometimes Americans,

00:53:55.580 they wouldn't know that because the shows were often only on in England. But he is unbelievably

00:54:01.920 talented. Someone who I grew up, you know, his name was on every great show that was on TV.

00:54:08.340 Anyhow, well, yes and no. Yes, I can believe it because Britain has bad free speech laws and no

00:54:17.120 First Amendment. And there have been an increasing number of examples of this sort of illiberalism

00:54:22.700 over the years. I've written a lot about them since I moved to the United States. No, in that this one

00:54:28.680 felt a little bit different to me. It was not the product of a cop making a mistake in the heat of the

00:54:35.320 moment or misinterpreting the law or overreacting. Some of the worst excesses we've seen have been that

00:54:41.880 this was premeditated. This is deliberate. You can't arrest someone at an airport by mistake. Five people

00:54:47.820 showed up. They knew he was going to be there. They orchestrated this with IATA and the airline and the

00:54:52.780 Heathrow Authority. You can't do this without a lot of planning. And in that respect, it felt to me Soviet.

00:55:00.620 That was what you would expect out of the Soviet Union if somebody flies in and then they're arrested for

00:55:05.920 comments that they've made at a prior point. You know, historically, there are stupid arrests in

00:55:13.300 Britain. When I was at Oxford, there was a guy who was arrested for telling a police officer his horse

00:55:17.620 was gay. There's a guy who was arrested for singing kung fu fighting when an Asian person was in the

00:55:25.360 audience. There have been examples of people on the street who have been arrested for preaching the

00:55:31.700 Old Testament and Muslims who've been arrested for preaching from the Koran. And these generally

00:55:38.460 involve a police officer who has an agenda or who makes a mistake. But that's not what happened to

00:55:43.340 it. This had to come up from relatively high up in the Metropolitan Police Authority and has to have

00:55:51.540 been discussed and debated and then executed. And that's where it felt to me unbelievable.

00:55:56.900 Mm hmm. It is these most. I mean, I realize we're on here all the time, the three of us

00:56:01.660 and you guys at NR on your own talking about the erosion of free speech in America too often

00:56:06.900 at too many turns. And yet, thank God, Rich, we have the First Amendment because truly like this could

00:56:14.160 not happen here with impunity. This would be this would be such a national firestorm if they if the

00:56:19.180 cops actually arrested one of the three of us, let's say, for tweets like he posted totally anodyne,

00:56:25.300 benign tweets. Yeah, totally. I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank God for George

00:56:30.740 Mason and the Bill of Rights. And those founders who thought the structure of the Constitution was

00:56:34.840 enough to protect our liberties were wrong. You need to write it in there in black and white.

00:56:39.300 And that's why we've seen backsliding, certainly in the culture of free speech. We can't we can't go

00:56:43.160 there. Not as long as we have a First Amendment, a Supreme Court that's committed to it. I don't know

00:56:48.820 this guy's work because I'm I'm an American, but I was just struck what a self-effacing, charming,

00:56:53.600 thoughtful guy. And it's so dystopian, right? If George Orwell had written this in a novel, you know,

00:57:00.840 40 or 50 years ago, no, that's not going to happen. That can never happen here in England in the cradle

00:57:06.460 of liberty. You know, all our liberties actually have their roots in English thought and practices.

00:57:12.520 They're going to they're going to do this. They're going to arrest this guy like he's an arms dealer

00:57:16.640 coming off the plane because of some tweets they don't like. And sure, as he said, you know,

00:57:21.400 punch him in the balls isn't maybe it's not most charming or clever tweet, but he's positing a

00:57:27.300 situation where where this biological male is harassing people or ogling women in the dressing

00:57:31.800 room. And it's not incitement. It's not anywhere close to incitement. Not anywhere close. Yes.

00:57:36.260 This is really disturbing. Yeah. I mean, such grace. I know notwithstanding the enormous personal

00:57:42.960 toll. I mean, everyone abandoned him, his cowardly colleagues. Nobody, nobody has stood by him,

00:57:50.040 which is why I'm very glad he's moved to the United States like Charlie. And I hope he eventually

00:57:54.960 becomes an American citizen and enjoys the full fruit and flower of the First Amendment or what's

00:58:00.600 left of it after those of us who have been defending it continue our battles. OK, let's let's keep going

00:58:06.840 because there is a huge story out of North Carolina today. I want to bring the audience up to speed on

00:58:11.260 the facts around it. So something terrible happened in Charlotte, North Carolina. Undoubtedly,

00:58:16.440 most of the audience has heard about it now, because if you're listening to this show, you're

00:58:20.880 you have the right news sources. It's it's something that happened a couple of weeks ago,

00:58:26.640 but it just hit the press. You wouldn't know anything about it if you solely read or watch

00:58:30.920 legacy media outlets. OK, nothing. The young woman's name is Irina Zorutska. And this young woman

00:58:38.300 was 23 years old. She was born in Kiev, Ukraine, and she came to the United States in 2022 with her

00:58:44.920 family trying to seek a better life. They were they were fleeing the war that Vladimir Putin

00:58:50.320 unleashed on the Ukraine. And she was murdered here in Charlotte, North Carolina on August 22nd

00:58:57.280 on her way home from a job she had obtained at a local pizzeria. Now, this woman is absolutely

00:59:02.000 stunning. She is she looks like Marilyn Monroe to me. She could have been modeling. She could have

00:59:07.100 been doing anything to make money. But she took a job at a local pizzeria and was showing up doing

00:59:12.280 shift work just trying to pay her bills and make her way in the United States quietly and without

00:59:17.860 much fanfare. And then this past Friday, surveillance video was released showing her being stabbed to

00:59:25.000 death by a man with a long criminal rap sheet and multiple encounters with the criminal justice system.

00:59:34.720 That video was released to local news outlets. We're going to walk you through it and the timeline

00:59:39.580 of how things unfolded. The suspect's name is DeCarlos Brown Jr. He's 34. Listening audience,

00:59:45.920 we're showing the video here. He's in a red hoodie sweatshirt. He's a black man with long black dreads.

00:59:51.040 He was on the train first sitting with no one in front of him, next to him or behind him. He is not

00:59:57.340 seen on the video having any interaction with any other riders just sitting alone, but looking a little

01:00:02.480 agitated at times. At the next stop, Zoritska boards the train. She is a white woman with blonde hair and

01:00:09.020 she's in her pizzeria uniform wearing a baseball cap. She sits in the row right in front of Brown.

01:00:14.440 She has her phone with her and headphones in her ears. Just a side note, honestly, like in today's

01:00:20.140 day and age, it's dangerous to have the headphones in and not know what's going on behind you. I'm

01:00:24.400 sorry to say that I'm not blaming her in any way, of course, but just as a safety measure, just don't

01:00:28.880 do that. You just don't know. You know, I'm sorry, but there's too much crime in America right now

01:00:33.480 to do that. Keep your ears open so you know what's happening about you. Unfortunately,

01:00:37.660 that's our reality. She's minding her own business. There's no interaction between the

01:00:42.020 two of them whatsoever. They ride along for another four minutes with nothing happening.

01:00:46.760 Then at 9.50 PM, Brown is seen reaching into his hoodie, pulling out a pocket knife, a small

01:00:53.360 pocket knife. This is zoomed in video courtesy of the local CBS outlet. You're seeing him unfold

01:00:58.680 it. And you see him unfolding the knife, but no one notices a thing out of nowhere. Truly,

01:01:05.700 it seems like it's out of nowhere. Brown then stands up. He pulls his arm back as far as it

01:01:10.600 can go to gain force. And from behind with the young woman, completely unaware of what was

01:01:16.800 about to happen to her. He begins stabbing her, including three times, at least once directly

01:01:24.140 into the neck. She did not stand a chance. She had no opportunity to defend herself. She clearly

01:01:29.660 had no idea she was in danger at all. According to a local reporter who saw the full footage,

01:01:35.700 Zarutska immediately grabs her neck and looks as at the suspect as he walks away. The local news

01:01:43.200 outlets, which received the video from the transit authority did not release to the public the moment

01:01:47.720 of the attack or what happens in this section immediately after, which honestly, I don't

01:01:55.660 understand. It's not their job to protect us from the facts. If you want to say, you know,

01:02:01.580 we on the CBS evening news, aren't going to show you the exact moment of violence. That's an editorial

01:02:06.140 call. But for all of the news outlets to not release it at all is strange to me. It's an incident

01:02:13.060 that happened and the specifics of it may matter. And we actually had our, had a hard time at getting

01:02:19.600 our hands on the full video. Now it's unclear if riders around the victim even noticed or saw the

01:02:25.860 knifing. Again, everyone's on their phones. No one's paying attention. And most of these people

01:02:29.940 appear to have headphones on. I get it. You want to zone out. You don't want people talking to you.

01:02:35.120 You kind of want to like do your own thing, but it's truly a safety measure to have your headphones

01:02:39.140 off and be able to listen and hear what's going on around you and these public transit vehicles.

01:02:45.820 The local CBS affiliate reports one passenger did react. Others followed, but we don't see exactly

01:02:50.780 how it unfolded. The reaction. We are shown Brown's actions after the attack. Now the whole thing goes

01:02:57.420 down in 30 seconds. So this has got to be not long after he walks up to a train door. You see blood

01:03:02.560 dripping onto the floor, apparently from the knife, which is still on him. Some riders noticed the blood,

01:03:08.260 but it appears they really have no idea that an attack just happened. Brown then takes off the

01:03:13.100 red hoodie. He appears to wrap the bloody knife up inside the hoodie. And Brown is then shown leaving

01:03:18.460 the train. Per local CBS, he left the train again about 30 seconds after the knife attack. That's how

01:03:24.820 quickly this whole thing went down. And seconds after Brown leaves the train, you do hear someone far

01:03:29.780 off in the background scream, oh my God, and scream the F word. Here's that moment.

01:03:38.260 I mean, it certainly sounds like somebody's found the victim. Someone did call law enforcement

01:03:54.760 Spectrum News in Charlotte reporting transit security guards were on the train at the time of the attack,

01:04:01.260 but in the car just ahead of Zeritska's when she was attacked. Brown was arrested a short time later.

01:04:09.860 You're not going to be surprised to hear the guys got 14 previous court cases in Mecklenburg County,

01:04:15.380 which includes Charlotte. He was sent to prison in 2015 for robbery with a dangerous weapon,

01:04:20.040 but was released a year early in 2020. This past January, he was arrested for misuse of the 911 system.

01:04:28.700 And here's where things get interesting. During that incident, Brown told police he had

01:04:33.200 man-made material inside his body that was controlling him. Per the ABC local outlet in

01:04:39.940 Charlotte, a magistrate judge allowed Brown to be released from jail without paying anything

01:04:46.420 on the written promise that he would show up to his next court appearance. Then in July,

01:04:51.900 another judge ordered a mental health evaluation. But again,

01:04:55.140 he was allowed to be out on the streets. He clearly was not right in the head. And you had

01:05:01.620 not one but two judges recently, a month before the murder. Send him back out there. Go ahead,

01:05:08.740 right back out there. There are so many angles to this story. It's an absolute disgrace

01:05:13.900 that the national media remains silent about this. Political news outlet Axios even has the gall to

01:05:21.440 blame MAGA Republicans for covering it. They're upset about the numerous surveillance cameras in

01:05:28.660 America now that happened to catch these incidents so that the MAGA Republicans can turn them into an

01:05:34.040 issue. That's what they see this story about. I mean, guys, Rich and Charlie remain with me.

01:05:39.840 There's just no question in my mind, the story for the media is about many uncomfortable narratives that

01:05:45.880 they'd rather not touch. Chief among them, a black man hacked to death, a young, beautiful,

01:05:53.380 white, blonde woman right on camera. And they don't want to touch it because that plays into a

01:06:00.920 narrative with which they're very uncomfortable, Rich. Yeah, absolutely. So the media has had two

01:06:05.900 modes here so far. First, ignore the story. Second, blame conservatives for paying attention

01:06:10.720 to the story. And we just shouldn't look through these at these crime stories through a racialized

01:06:15.540 lens and only pay attention if it's a white perpetrator, alleged perpetrator and a black

01:06:20.760 victim and ignore them if it's reverse. That's perverse. It's wrong. It's un-American. And by the

01:06:26.820 way, where was the Daniel Penny in this train, right? The New York City spent all these resources

01:06:33.060 trying to nail that guy to the wall for doing the right thing and stopping potentially something like

01:06:38.160 this happening. And the Charlotte mayor has been a disgrace in what she said. She's emphasized,

01:06:44.300 she said, we can't arrest our way out of this and we need more mental health services. So this guy

01:06:48.940 was clearly a schizophrenic and was allowed to walk the street and be homeless and menace people and

01:06:57.220 then commit this act of homicide. The mental health service should have been arresting him, putting in

01:07:02.740 jail, ascertaining he had mental health problems, then sending him to an institution where he's not

01:07:08.840 released until he's either taking his meds and or it's ascertained he's okay and can be in the

01:07:14.180 community again. You cannot let seriously mentally ill people just wander the streets. It's terrible for

01:07:19.020 them. It's terrible for public order. And in these rare cases like this, it is a dire threat to other

01:07:24.620 individuals. And I'll just add, the mother seems to have done the right thing. As many families like

01:07:29.220 this with untreated schizophrenics, they don't know what to do. You know, their son or daughter is

01:07:34.200 moldering away in the basement. They go to sleep at night hoping their son or daughter won't stab

01:07:38.920 them in their beds. It's happened to create deeds, by the way, a politician in Virginia several years

01:07:43.460 ago, untreated son with mental illness. So they have a choice. You know, do they just go along with it?

01:07:50.460 Do they kick the person out of the house? That's what the mother did here. Do they make up a story to

01:07:54.280 try to get the police come and arrest them and hope they'll get no help? And it's because for the last

01:07:58.840 50 or 60 years, we decided to empty the institutions and we don't have the right to say when someone's

01:08:04.360 crazy, we don't have the right to tell them you have to take your meds. And we don't have the right

01:08:08.160 to tell them, no, you're not sleeping on the streets. You're not wandering subway cars. We lost

01:08:13.780 that social self-confidence. And I despair. Megan, this is the same set of circumstance. Every single

01:08:20.980 subway shover in New York City, it happens again and again and again. And I just despair of when we'll

01:08:27.500 actually get it and do something about it. Yeah, no, I've said many times in the wake of

01:08:32.720 these school shootings, and I'll say it again here, we need more facilities to which loving parents

01:08:39.920 would willingly send their children to have them committed, even an adult child like this guy was.

01:08:45.660 We need some of the money we're shipping to God knows where or spending on God knows what here.

01:08:50.920 Some of the savings maybe from Doge could be redirected to build such a facility to which a loving

01:08:56.980 parent would willingly send their child. Because even if we loosen the spigot on

01:09:02.360 institutionalization, it's not going to help if it's basically a hardcore jail that a loving parent

01:09:10.100 would say, well, I don't want him to go there. I know he's going to wind up dead there. But if we

01:09:14.320 can build a facility that is large part jail, but also mental health institution that's not completely

01:09:19.740 awful, we'll have more parents calling it and shipping it there. And I do think taxpayers would

01:09:25.360 pay for this. I really do. Did that mother want him homeless on the streets? No, it's because

01:09:30.800 there's no alternative. So she kicked him out of the house. And apparently he had also assaulted

01:09:34.700 his sister. So this is just a terrible situation. We know the solution. You know, we just need the

01:09:40.160 will to do it. It always follows that pattern. Charlie, Rich mentions the mayor, the Charlotte

01:09:46.980 mayor. And very interestingly, this woman's name is, it's basically Vile. Her name is Vile.

01:09:53.300 Vile. It's Vi Lyles. That's her name, Vi Lyles. So I'm just going to call her Vile,

01:09:59.140 because that's what she is based on this response she's given. She's a Democrat. She's been mayor

01:10:03.140 since 2017. She last won re-election with 68% of the vote. And this is the statement she released

01:10:08.900 right after the attack. She did not use the victim's name, even though it was out there. It wasn't like

01:10:13.820 a matter of privacy. The parents knew, everybody knew she'd been killed. It happened on August 22nd.

01:10:18.160 First and foremost, my thoughts and prayers go out to the young woman's family and friends.

01:10:23.140 While I do not know the specifics of the man's medical record, what I have come to understand

01:10:26.800 is that he long struggled, he has long struggled with mental health and appears to have suffered

01:10:31.040 a crisis. This was the unfortunate and tragic outcome. Tragic incidents like these should force

01:10:39.020 us to look at what we are doing across our community to address root causes. She sounds like Joe Biden

01:10:46.700 trying to solve, quote unquote, the immigration problem by addressing root causes, which is just

01:10:52.900 a dodge for doing absolutely nothing at all. We will never arrest our way out. Issues such as

01:11:00.360 homelessness and mental health. We will never arrest our way out of issues such as homelessness and

01:11:06.560 mental health. I want to be clear that I'm not villainizing those who struggle with their mental

01:11:11.280 health. What's the matter with this woman? Vile, vile. That's not the issue. Or those who are

01:11:18.000 unhoused. Mental health disease is just that, a disease like any other that needs to be treated with

01:11:24.060 the same compassion, diligence, and commitment as cancer or heart disease. Our community must work

01:11:30.240 to address the underlying issue of access to mental health care. Charlie, please help me. Please help

01:11:36.960 vile. All right. Well, where to start? So I agree with everything that you both said on mental health,

01:11:44.940 but I would note that the cases that people bring up in opposition to the position that you both

01:11:52.540 outlined usually involve somebody who's quite clearly crazy but hasn't really done anything.

01:11:59.100 This person had. We don't need to get even to the mental health question because this person had been

01:12:05.980 arrested for breaking and entering, for robbery with a firearm, for possession of a firearm as a felon,

01:12:14.040 for assault, for material threats. So that side question of who is crazy and who gets to decide

01:12:22.640 doesn't need to be reached here. The person should have been charged and convicted of other violent crimes.

01:12:31.840 The idea, as a result, that we can't arrest our way out of this is preposterous. That's precisely what

01:12:39.820 we literally should have done in this case. That's what should have happened in North Carolina. We should

01:12:45.680 have arrested our way out of this murder. That person should not have been free. Now, the mayor,

01:12:54.620 vile, as you put it, reminds me, you know that scene in the Truman Show where Truman's wife starts

01:13:05.720 doing a commercial, essentially, and he says, who are you talking to? What are you talking about?

01:13:11.720 It's so incongruous to the moment. I don't know why she's saying those things in response to this case.

01:13:19.500 It's utterly incongruous. It almost feels like she's a hostage. Like she, as a result of political

01:13:27.360 affiliations or sort of ideological brainwashing, is mandated to spew this garbage about not villainizing

01:13:37.360 this person or understanding we need to look at root causes or wanting to spend more money on

01:13:43.140 mental health or the unhoused. That is not what is important here. And if she or progressives or

01:13:51.420 Democrats in general think that this view is held only by so-called MAGA Republicans, they're out of

01:13:58.180 their minds. There are two groups here. There are groups who are obsessed with this strange language,

01:14:05.040 the language that you just echoed. And then there is everyone else. This is not left, right,

01:14:13.140 this is not conservative, progressive. This is not Democrat, Republican, Northern, Southern,

01:14:18.320 whatever. This is every single person. And then the weirdos. This is a pre-political question.

01:14:26.280 There is just not a person I know in the real world. And I know a lot of people who would respond

01:14:33.420 to this in the way that this mayor did. It is just utterly bizarre. So yes, we can arrest our way out of

01:14:40.620 this happening. Yes, we can judge and villainize the person who did this. Yes, she ought to reflect,

01:14:48.960 as she acknowledged, on what there is to learn here. But no, it is not that we need to look at

01:14:55.180 the root causes here. That is meaningless nonsense. We need to take very seriously people who cause chaos

01:15:02.880 crime in our cities. And look, as you know, I haven't been on your show a few times, I am procedurally

01:15:08.860 a small l liberal on criminal justice questions. I think it is very important that at the investigation

01:15:15.460 and arrest and trial stages, that we follow the Constitution and the law to the letter. I love

01:15:22.020 presumption of innocence and the whole suite of American, they're not innovations, but they were

01:15:29.280 written down, which was an innovation. What I do not like is that bleeding over into doing nothing

01:15:35.420 about crime. They're not inconsistent, you can have a perfectly constitutional response to serious,

01:15:42.400 especially violent crime, and proper sentencing, and deal with these people and lock them away

01:15:48.180 from the public. And what I worry about, Megan, aside from the obvious, which is that these things

01:15:53.040 will keep happening, is that the public won't put up with this. So if you don't do your job as a

01:15:58.680 government, which is what's happened here, and if you don't respond to this in the way that you

01:16:02.720 should, which is what's happened here, Americans will start to lose interest in those constitutional

01:16:07.520 niceties. They won't care about it, because they're going to really take an interest in their family and

01:16:12.860 their friends being safe on buses and in the streets or anywhere. So if we want to preserve all

01:16:18.020 the stuff that I like, and I really think we should, we also have to get serious about sentencing.

01:16:23.260 We also have to get serious about not releasing people once we've arrested them for violent crime

01:16:27.960 without a charge, because otherwise people will take it into their own hands. And frankly,

01:16:32.960 that's the logical response. So I'm totally outraged by this.

01:16:39.360 To hear this mayor's reaction suggests she just doesn't get it, Rich. I mean, and she is a loon.

01:16:45.560 The New York Post this morning had a piece up writing about how there have been a bunch of

01:16:50.500 GoFundMes for the defendant here, which GoFundMe, thankfully, is taking down. But here's

01:16:57.060 some of the justification by those who started the GoFundMes on why they're doing it. Quote,

01:17:03.580 while what happened on the blue line was a tragedy, what we mustn't lose sight of is the fact that

01:17:08.460 DeClarus Brown Jr. was failed categorically by the judicial system and the mental health services of

01:17:16.040 North Carolina. And as such is not entirely to blame for what happened, one page claimed.

01:17:22.000 The caption underneath his picture reads, raise funds to stop the injustice against DeClarus

01:17:28.940 Brown Jr., the injustice against him. So that now they're having to knock these down like a

01:17:35.700 whack-a-mole. And I'll give you one more. OK, it's it's not just absolute loons. It's some people who

01:17:42.640 are respected on the left, like Nicole Hannah-Jones, who tweets out the following or post the following

01:17:48.380 on Blue Sky, which, by the way, is is really struggling. The train stabbing in Charlotte was

01:17:55.280 awful. It's no more awful than schoolchildren being shot down in a church. Journalists should

01:18:02.600 not allow ourselves to become tools of propaganda. If Charlotte is a product of policies, then so was

01:18:10.740 Minneapolis. Outrage should not drive our coverage. She went on how we cover crime at a time when

01:18:18.200 crime is being used as a pretext to occupy American cities with the U.S. military is critical.

01:18:25.840 Do we report the news or drive it? So she doesn't want to focus on what happened in Charlotte because

01:18:32.820 she thinks mega Republicans are going to use it as an excuse for Trump to drop the National Guard

01:18:38.940 in Charlotte. And I have to say, if I'm I'm a white woman with blonde hair like the woman who was killed,

01:18:45.320 if I were walking around Charlotte right now, I think I'd say that's fine with me. I wish my

01:18:50.280 governor would ask for the help so that we could have additional safety and security forces here.

01:18:55.320 Yeah, absolutely. That's clearly the politics of it. And look, she contradicts herself right at the

01:19:00.900 beginning. If these things are equally awful and terrible, then we should we should focus on both.

01:19:05.760 Right. But she doesn't want to because she fears focusing on one, this this crime and this light

01:19:11.580 light rail car will lead to results she doesn't like, namely federal forces who might deal with

01:19:16.760 the problem. Right. So, you know, I think that the governor would need to call on on Trump to send

01:19:22.100 the National Guard there. But what you said, Megan, really struck me. I didn't say that. Don't wear your

01:19:27.980 headphones, you know, your earbuds on a train. It's if that's the mindset. And a lot of people are going

01:19:34.300 to have that mindset. This this just goes to it doesn't matter whether I don't know, crime is is

01:19:40.180 declining on this commuter trains down 10 percent or whatever numbers they come up with. If you have

01:19:44.420 to think about it, this is a this is a serious public issue. No one should have to go through that

01:19:49.580 thought process. I have to be hyper aware of everything that's happening on this train. And I

01:19:56.160 can't even listen to something else because I might be stabbed in the neck. That's awful. It should

01:20:00.560 be denounced by everyone. Everyone should want to do their utmost to stop it. And just just final

01:20:05.260 point. Most of the people who are responsible for most of the crime are known to authorities as a

01:20:10.840 matter of public will, whether you're going to deal with them or not. Gangbangers, none of them

01:20:15.440 all of a sudden one day just become a gangbanger. Right. They're guilty of all sorts of fences and

01:20:20.480 assaults and violent crimes before they start murdering people, arrest them and lock them up and

01:20:25.740 you keep them in jail. And you know what? They can't harm anyone in the general population. Same here.

01:20:30.560 Same case here with people who are deranged and have these criminal tendencies. It's a long,

01:20:35.980 long, long rap sheet. And just everyone passed them along and said, oh, he's going to get treatment

01:20:40.100 or, you know, agree to do this or that. No one actually took the effort to say, no, we need we

01:20:46.220 know all we need to know. We have the rap sheet. You're either staying in jail or you're going to

01:20:50.600 some other form of confinement. Again, it's just a matter of public will. The media had something.

01:20:56.920 Well, let me just make this point and then, yes, but the media has been absolutely disgusting in

01:21:01.000 the way they've ignored the story. As of Sunday, there was zero coverage on the AP, PBS, New York

01:21:06.980 Times, NPR, CNN, Washington Post, MSNBC. Zero. Zero. I mean, I hardly need to remind you of the

01:21:14.140 coverage we had after George Floyd was was killed by Derek Chauvin. And let's face it. This is a

01:21:20.820 pattern. You know, look what happened down in Texas with Carmelo Anthony, the black defendant who who

01:21:27.680 killed a young white boy who is in high school. Same attempted blackout. They did not want to

01:21:33.820 discuss it because race is first and foremost. And yet, if you switched it, if this guy it's the

01:21:39.780 South. So if this guy, this killer were a white guy who was wearing a MAGA hat, killing a black

01:21:46.600 woman who had fled oppression from some other country, can you imagine this would be George

01:21:53.900 Floyd all over again? It would be it would be everywhere. They won't cover it because it's

01:22:00.040 black on white crime. In particular, a beautiful, young, blonde, white woman. That's the last person

01:22:06.180 the left wants to feel sorry for. Literally the last last, even though she's from Ukraine, which

01:22:10.980 normally would engender some sympathy from them. I mean, the irony, of course, the iron is the young

01:22:15.500 woman fleeing her possible death in Ukraine. She was worried about getting murdered by Russians.

01:22:19.880 So she got murdered by an American loon on a train car who was killed as a result of American policy.

01:22:26.620 Let's face it directly as a result of American policy. So it's the race thing. But then on top

01:22:32.260 of it, they do not want to talk about a homeless, mentally deranged man committing crime, Charles,

01:22:40.020 because they have no solution, no real solution for that. So instead, we get the Axios article for Mark

01:22:44.520 Caputo talking about MAGA influencers drawing repeated attention to violent attacks after the

01:22:50.980 rising number of surveillance cameras has made them more accessible, quote, has become a big accelerant

01:22:58.400 in these cases. The cameras are creating the crime, are they, rather than capturing it?

01:23:06.840 Nicole Hannah-Jones, you quoted her. That makes me crazy. And it ties in to the Axios piece as well,

01:23:14.260 because what she's trying to do there is intimate that there is a double standard in the way that

01:23:21.980 so-called MAGA Republicans or conservatives in general look at these two cases, when actually

01:23:27.000 the only double standard is on the left and in the mainstream press. So you have this guy in

01:23:34.020 Charlotte who murders this lady. If conservatives had responded to it by saying, now it's time to

01:23:40.540 ban knives, then Nicole Hannah-Jones would have a point. But they didn't. No one said that. No one

01:23:46.580 said it was the knife that did it, which is the same as the shooting in Minnesota, where conservatives

01:23:51.000 said, no, no, the problem was not the gun. What did conservatives think the problem was in Minnesota,

01:23:56.580 and in fact, in Charlotte? People who were mentally ill, not being treated. Now, I don't think in

01:24:03.020 Minnesota, the perpetrator was on the police's radar in quite the way that the guy was in Charlotte.

01:24:10.240 But had he been, there would have been no double standard in the reaction. The argument would have

01:24:14.300 been exactly the same. Can we do something about this, please? Not can we take away people's weapons,

01:24:20.620 not can we take away people's constitutional rights. But the problem is the person who did it,

01:24:26.320 and the authorities' unwillingness or refusal or inability to deal with that. So actually,

01:24:31.880 the only double standard left is that in one case, we got wall-to-wall coverage. Well, until

01:24:38.020 the perpetrator in Minnesota turned out to be someone the press wished it had not been.

01:24:42.680 Exactly.

01:24:43.120 And in the other case, it was covered up completely. It's not conservatives who have done anything here

01:24:48.980 other than said, could we please talk about this crime? Could we please talk about the victim

01:24:55.440 as if she matters and not the guy who did it? So that is so cheap. It is actually, it's just so

01:25:02.580 offensive to have it pinned on the people who noticed that this happened. And again, blaming cameras,

01:25:10.080 I mean, it's good that we have cameras that are catching crimes. If the implication is that prior

01:25:15.000 to the cameras, lots more crimes happened on public transport around the country, but we didn't know

01:25:19.580 about it, then God bless the cameras. We finally at least have a way of working out how much crime

01:25:26.720 is happening.

01:25:28.000 It's weird, Rich. I don't remember them lamenting like police body cams after George Floyd was dead.

01:25:33.820 I don't remember them saying, oh, the problem is we caught it on camera. Not, you know,

01:25:37.520 trust us, crime is way down in Minneapolis. You're just being misled by those damn cameras that the

01:25:43.020 cops happen to be wearing. But this Mark Caputo, he didn't write that article then.

01:25:46.240 Now he writes about how the video is easily shared or leaked and can instantly pollinate across social

01:25:52.160 media. Again, had no problem when that happened after George Floyd and going on as follows just

01:25:57.640 because he wanted to make it into a MAGA issue as opposed to what it is, all the issues we've been

01:26:02.520 discussing. Yeah, I think it's a public service that this video is out, right? I mean, video is

01:26:07.420 incredibly powerful. We knew about the story. The story had been reported that it happened, but it

01:26:11.560 doesn't hit anyone the same way as actually seeing what occurred in real time on the video.

01:26:18.140 I mean, it's like a horror movie, right? It's unfathomable. So I don't know why we'd want to

01:26:23.740 suppress the video. Maybe you don't show the most gruesome parts, but I think all of it should be

01:26:29.120 available for news outlets to make that decision. And just one last thing on social services and root

01:26:34.140 causes on this, Megan, people who say that must have never known anyone who has a serious mental

01:26:40.320 illness. Because this guy in Charlotte, you could have given him a free $10,000 a month luxury

01:26:46.920 apartment in downtown Charlotte with a high rise on the 19th floor, and he wouldn't have lived there,

01:26:52.820 right? He would have thought it was a plot and he was being controlled by radio waves, and he would

01:26:56.380 have wandered the streets and gone on the trains and harassed people and committed crime. Because he's

01:27:02.100 out of his mind. He needs to be told what to do until he gets help. So it's so weird that progressives

01:27:08.940 have such a tendency to mandate things and be coercive, except for in two areas, right? Locking up

01:27:16.220 criminals and making sure that mentally ill people aren't unhoused. And that's the other thing. They

01:27:21.820 let them walk the streets and then they become part of this privileged group. The unhoused are supposedly

01:27:26.500 victims that you can't do anything about. It's just insane. Well, here's the capper, okay? Because

01:27:32.780 he made that bizarre 911 call over the summer, and it was obvious that this was a lunatic, right? I mean,

01:27:39.840 I've got man-made material inside my body that's controlling me as I eat, walk, and talk, according

01:27:44.920 to an affidavit that was filed in support of charges. And so in July of 2025, after that charge was

01:27:52.120 brought against him, his lawyer raised the question of his mental capacity to stand trial.

01:27:58.180 And there was a court-ordered forensic evaluation pending at the time of the incident. His mother

01:28:02.220 said he's got schizophrenia and that she tried to get him help. The local ABC affiliate reports that

01:28:07.660 the judge, Roy Wiggins, ordered a mental health evaluation, but allowed Brown to be out on the

01:28:14.980 streets while it was conducted, in the pendency of that evaluation and the trial. Notwithstanding his

01:28:21.200 long criminal history, the 14 arrests, the bizarre phone call, he sent him back out to go murder that

01:28:26.600 girl. I'm sorry. That's what he did. And now, and now, that's the same judge who has this case,

01:28:33.880 the first-degree murder case, that's just been brought against DeCarlos Brown. And guess what?

01:28:39.640 He denied bond. He denied bond after the victim's family pleaded for him to remain in jail. But that

01:28:45.980 is unbelievable. And right now, Brown's lawyer is saying he's going to file a motion for a mental

01:28:49.580 health evaluation of his competency to see if he can stand trial because of his long history of

01:28:53.940 mental health issues. They're considering an insanity defense. I mean, that is just chef's

01:28:57.760 kiss. Chef's kiss. He's in front of this same judge for mental health issues. The judge says,

01:29:04.000 oh, we'll evaluate. But go out and do whatever you want to do while we evaluate. What if we find

01:29:09.960 you're an insane lunatic who's not safe to be out there? Oh, well, I guess that's Irina's problem.

01:29:14.000 And now that he's committed first-degree murder, snuffing out this 22-year-old life with everything

01:29:18.580 in front of her, now we're going to hold you without bond because, you know, geez, you seem

01:29:23.480 like a danger. And of course, the final cherry on top, the defense will be insanity. He's not

01:29:29.760 competent to stand trial. It's like, no wonder people are getting murdered. One final point before we take

01:29:35.280 a quick break. So as you guys may know, I had some serious security problems when I was relatively new

01:29:41.360 into television. And I mean, we always have to worry about it, but like there was some active

01:29:45.500 issues early on. And the guards who were with me did tell me, number one, never have those headphones

01:29:53.160 on. You know, back then it was not yet AirPods, but never have those headphones out when you're on

01:29:58.800 public transportation or walking down the sidewalk. You need your ears. Like you'll hear the danger

01:30:04.360 before you'll see the danger in a lot of cases. And secondly, they said, don't walk looking at your

01:30:10.120 phone. Do not walk down the sidewalk or to your car in a parking garage looking at your phone

01:30:16.700 because you just never know. These are modern day distractions that could potentially prove unsafe.

01:30:22.800 And I agree with you, Rich. It's unfortunate that we have to think like that, but young women in

01:30:26.180 particular are very used to being the subjects of men's anger and violence. They just are, you know,

01:30:32.680 like we walked down the street at night in DC in a way that you guys, you know, not in all

01:30:37.860 circumstances would walk down. And so we're used to having to take these precautions.

01:30:42.580 I, part of me feels like this poor girl was from Ukraine. I don't know. Maybe she trusted too much

01:30:47.220 in the United States of America. I don't think we deserved her trust. I'm very sorry for her family.

01:30:53.060 Working at a pizza place, right? Kind of first rung up in, you know, making a career in America,

01:30:59.160 doing all the right, right things. And yeah, it's not, not from what we know, like leeching off the

01:31:05.160 system, you know, coming here, getting a job, humbling herself. I mean, look at her beautiful

01:31:09.840 face. Truly. She could have been on the cover of a thousand magazines. She's spectacular looking,

01:31:14.940 but there she is in a pizza parlor working hard. The, the, the pizza parlor put out a beautiful

01:31:21.320 statement on her behalf saying she was the nicest person. She was so kind to everybody. They have a

01:31:24.860 candle burning there in her memory. And instead this cretin who murdered her is the one whose name

01:31:30.040 we're going to remember. Guys, stand by a quick break back with Rich and Charlie after this.

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01:33:54.000 I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM. It's your home for open, honest,

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01:35:02.260 You remember when I went to space with my fellow astronauts, Sarah and Maureen Callahan,

01:35:08.160 and we had mugs made. I'm drinking out of one right now. It reads, I'm inspirational. That's a quote

01:35:15.140 of Gayle King, who was busy telling us how inspirational she was after her space flight

01:35:21.280 that lasted a few seconds. And I don't know, can you still get these on the MK website? You might

01:35:26.120 be able to still get these. Go check them out. I give them out as party favors. I have hats. They're

01:35:30.320 super fun. You'll laugh. You know, I find them very good at like the mugs and the hats. You don't

01:35:35.960 want to bring a hostess gift. You don't want to bring like a damn bottle of wine that nobody really

01:35:40.320 wants. Let's bring that. That's fun. Conversation piece. Okay. Back with me now, Rich Lowry and

01:35:45.140 Charles Cook of National Review, who are going to be joining me in Atlanta in November on the

01:35:51.280 Megyn Kelly live tour. We're taking the show on the road. Go find out more now at MegynKelley.com

01:35:56.180 and learn how you can get tickets. If you want to see these two guys in Atlanta, and you should go

01:36:01.660 get tickets now because I have a feeling those will sell out fast. Guys, thanks for, first of all,

01:36:05.580 for doing that. I know it's always a hassle. You got an airplane, you got to travel, but I really

01:36:10.440 appreciate it. Yeah, we're huge in Atlanta, so we're doing you a big favor, Megan.

01:36:16.340 Well, that's like kind of in Charlie's backyard, but that's a, that's a hike for you, Rich.

01:36:20.100 I appreciate both of you. I can't move in Atlanta, Megan, either. The second I show up there,

01:36:23.880 people say to me, you're Charles Cook. And I say, oh, you're on the Megyn Kelly show.

01:36:28.720 We've got a lot of fans down there. Trust me. I see the numbers. We have to end it. We've had like a

01:36:34.460 serious show, but we have to end it on baseball because this happens to be, I think, one of the

01:36:39.580 greatest loves of our friend, Rich Lowry here, Charlie. I hear him talk about it all the time.

01:36:44.300 He does like preseason openers. He watches like the practices. He watches the games before anybody's

01:36:49.660 there. Like the man loves baseball. Baseball controversy in the news. I'm becoming a regular

01:36:55.540 sports commentator between the US Open and the NFL and now this. And everybody must have seen this

01:37:01.040 online over the weekend. It was at a Philadelphia Eagles game against the Marlins. Sorry. Eagles were

01:37:09.280 the other day. They also played in my defense. This is the Phillies. That's the baseball team.

01:37:14.620 And, um, the Phillies hit a home run and the ball went into the stands and the ball landed kind of in

01:37:22.900 front of this group of people, but there was a scrum to grab it. And the guy in the red shirt,

01:37:27.820 this dad ran over, he got it. He goes back and gives it to his kid. An angry Karen lady comes over,

01:37:35.680 starts yelling at him. And you can hear her yelling here. Let's, let's play this out.

01:37:39.820 And he gave it back. He took it out of his son's mitt and gave it to the, to you took it from me

01:38:05.120 lady. So your verdict on who's right and who's wrong here. Rich is what? Oh, she's clearly in the

01:38:11.480 wrong. So the basic rule is foul ball home run adults involved. It's a scrum, right? And, and it's,

01:38:19.480 it's just a fight to the finish until someone secures the ball and holds it up. Then it's,

01:38:23.220 then it's their, their ball. But the other rules are, if there's a kid involved in the scrum

01:38:27.260 and you're aware of it as adult, you back off because you want the kid to get it. And if you catch a

01:38:32.660 ball and it's not like, you know, Aaron judges, 500th career home run or something, you know,

01:38:36.620 sell for $500,000. You take the photo with it. You're happy. Then you toss it to the nearest kid

01:38:41.760 walking, thinking because a seat, a ball landed in your vicinity, it's yours. And then going and

01:38:47.240 confronting a father who got it for his kid is so outlandish. It's this, this, uh, this just isn't

01:38:54.260 done. I haven't ever seen anything like this, uh, before now, look, I don't think her life should be

01:39:00.000 ruined over it. I don't like the sleuthing to try to identify her and get her fired for a job or

01:39:05.000 whatever. No one's found her yet. She's probably walking around Philadelphia and Mets paraphernalia

01:39:09.220 right now to, to, to maintain her deep cover. But her, her conduct was terrible and inexcusable.

01:39:15.140 All right. What do we think Charlie of this incident? And what do we think some, some are

01:39:20.180 giving the dad a hard time for giving the ball back for taking the ball from the sun and giving it

01:39:26.280 to the angry Karen? Yeah. It's just so unusual, isn't it? To find an intemperate sports fan from

01:39:32.360 Philadelphia for the first time this has ever happened. Exactly. I don't know. I'm in two

01:39:38.500 minds. I've read both sides of this. On the one hand, I do agree that it's a good opportunity to

01:39:44.480 teach a lesson about how people can be unreasonable. And he realized she was going to make the rest of

01:39:51.040 his and his son's evening a nightmare. And he did get rewarded for it. Ultimately, I think he went and

01:39:56.400 he got a signed bat because the team felt bad for him. On the other hand, knowing myself, I think I

01:40:04.840 may have very calmly explained that there was no way in hell she was getting that baseball back from my

01:40:09.060 son because my son would have been so happy to have it. And once it had been handed over to him,

01:40:14.160 I think I would probably have refused. So I don't like the condemnations of this guy in either

01:40:21.020 direction. It's difficult to know what you do in that scenario. But me personally, knowing how

01:40:25.880 obstinate I am, I think I would have told her very politely to take a hike. Yeah. Maybe we would

01:40:30.960 have heard like bollocks or something like that. Charlie in the stands. I think no condemnation for

01:40:37.020 the dad. You're right. That's an awkward situation. But I do think it's like a moment to ask yourself,

01:40:41.960 what should I do in that situation? And I don't think you give the ball back. I think you say,

01:40:44.840 lady, take a hike. It was a scrum, every man or woman for themselves. And now my kids got it. Go

01:40:51.400 deal. Now, Rich, another interesting angle is some people online were saying, back when I was a kid,

01:40:59.060 if you didn't get the ball because someone acted like a Karen, that was the end of it. And you learned

01:41:05.220 that life has disappointments and shitty people and move on. Now we often see this like they're going to

01:41:11.040 have a parade in the child's honor. He's going to get a bat. He's going to go. He's going to have

01:41:15.040 a Philly spend the summer with him teaching in baseball. You know, like what do you make of the

01:41:18.920 team making good kind of in an over the top way? Yeah, I don't mind that so much. I think it's

01:41:25.360 great that Harrison Bader hit the home run, signed the bat for him. All that's appropriate. I don't

01:41:29.620 know about further things in the kids' favor, but this really, it shouldn't be a national story. I mean,

01:41:35.700 it's just interesting and fun, but this is the kind of thing before the era of cell phones. It would

01:41:39.000 have happened and people in that section would have known about it. Or maybe, you know, maybe

01:41:42.340 the TV broadcast picks up on it, but it's, it's a bad thing to happen. Unfortunate. Everyone moves

01:41:47.400 on. But now, you know, it's a national obsession. And again, she needs to, she needs to hide her

01:41:51.360 identity because, because she really could get fired or personally destroyed over this. She may be a

01:41:56.140 terrible person for all I know, or it may just have been a bad moment, but I think it's, it's better

01:42:00.640 if everyone just kind of moves on and says, go Yankees. I like, I like, it says, go Yankees. I like the rules.

01:42:06.740 Like when there's a kid involved, you lose, you cede to the kid, period. That should be ingrained

01:42:11.040 in everybody's head naturally, but some Karens need to be reminded. Guys. Great to see you. What

01:42:16.080 a great hour. Thanks for being here. Thank you. Thank you. Talk soon. Go subscribe to NR plus before

01:42:20.940 they leave your head and you can read all their commentary, uh, for a very reasonable price

01:42:24.900 tomorrow. Andrew Klavan. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:42:36.740 Thank you.

The Megyn Kelly Show - September 08, 2025

Graham Linehan on His Arrest Over ＂Dangerous＂ Posts, and Media Refusing to Cover Brutal Charlotte Murder, with Rich Lowry and Charles C.W. Cooke ｜ Ep 1143

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