The Megyn Kelly Show - Harry and Meghan's Complaining, and Putting Faith and Family First, with Kirk Cameron and Maureen Callahan

00:00:00.000 Beat, beat, beatboxing actually has hidden health benefits.

00:00:04.340 It can help strengthen and protect your voice from injury.

00:00:08.900 See healthy living differently with Manulife.

00:00:11.160 Visit manulife.ca slash health.

00:00:14.400 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:17.500 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:26.760 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:28.380 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:30.420 Ahead in this program, we are going in-depth with former teen star Kirk Cameron.

00:00:36.600 He was still acting as a grown-up, but we fell in love with him when he was a teen,

00:00:40.180 and when I was a teen, and I have a confession to make when he comes on.

00:00:44.080 He's had a fascinating career, and we will discuss his path toward faith and patriotism

00:00:50.020 and how he's trying to spread that message to this day.

00:00:53.460 But we begin with the Duchess of Duplicity.

00:00:56.440 She's at it again.

00:00:57.600 The final three episodes of Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's Netflix, quote, documentary,

00:01:03.540 again, that's a misnomer.

00:01:04.760 That's not what this is, are now out.

00:01:07.320 In them, Prince Harry claims the royal family was just jealous of Meghan.

00:01:11.220 They don't want me to have it.

00:01:12.540 They're jealous of me.

00:01:13.600 Veruca Meghan Markle's assault, because she did the job better than they did it.

00:01:21.040 She was just better at it.

00:01:22.040 She can't help it.

00:01:22.880 She was the star of the show.

00:01:24.080 And he claims Prince William once left him terrified after screaming at him in front of the queen

00:01:31.100 during talks over the couple's proposal that they be allowed to be half in, half out of the royal family.

00:01:36.240 What's not in the six hour documentary?

00:01:39.260 The couple taking one moment of responsibility for their role in any of this.

00:01:48.240 They also don't reveal the name or any additional details of the supposed racist royal who questioned what skin color the couple's future children might have.

00:01:58.420 Joining me now to discuss what we've seen so far, Maureen Callahan, columnist for The Daily Mail.

00:02:04.340 Maureen, thank you so much for being back with us.

00:02:07.260 So now this is the whole thing.

00:02:08.980 I don't know about you, but I did manage to watch it.

00:02:10.840 I will say the second three hours I thought were more interesting than the first three hours, which bored me to tears.

00:02:16.800 Now, finally, we got down to some juice, some dirt that they wanted to spew.

00:02:22.000 But I remain convinced that their number one complaint, and they don't like the mean media, the mean media.

00:02:28.420 Maureen and me, they weren't going to say nice things about Megan.

00:02:31.980 This, I, like you, I watched all three episodes today.

00:02:36.260 I'm really, you know, earning our paychecks this week, Megan, I think.

00:02:41.420 What, to me, my biggest takeaway is that these two are, their greatest offense is that they are boring.

00:02:53.240 They are, yes, seething with rage, with jealousy, with resentment.

00:02:59.480 They move about the world with a remarkable lack of self-awareness.

00:03:06.060 They cannot take a note of criticism, and you are 100% right about the lack of accountability.

00:03:13.800 You know, these two such enlightened souls, these global humanitarians who talk so much about the importance of love and treating each other with kindness and giving back.

00:03:28.740 And, you know, my favorite phrase is standing in your truth and taking up space.

00:03:33.400 All of this gobbledygook.

00:03:34.700 And there is, you know, for two narcissists, the lack of introspection, I mean, maybe it's not that surprising.

00:03:44.960 They are narcissists, right?

00:03:46.220 So they're never in the wrong.

00:03:48.520 They're never going to put a foot wrong.

00:03:50.060 And to your point, I also was sort of, my jaw was hanging open when Harry complained that his brother yelled at him during the Sandringham summit with the queen.

00:04:00.080 Right.

00:04:00.800 Like, grow up.

00:04:01.880 Okay.

00:04:02.220 First of all, whether it's true or not, if it's true, grow a pair.

00:04:05.480 You're a prince, too.

00:04:06.680 Stand up for yourself.

00:04:07.560 You're a grown man.

00:04:08.500 You're not 12 anymore.

00:04:10.500 The whole thing, he's sort of weirdly effeminate and soft and incapable of actually sounding and acting like a man.

00:04:18.380 But all of his rhetoric is very manly.

00:04:21.260 I had to protect my family.

00:04:22.500 I had to protect my wife.

00:04:23.680 I had to protect my.

00:04:24.520 It's like, but what you're actually doing is crying in your soup over mean media articles, which they make it sound, Maureen, you are in media.

00:04:32.620 I'm in media.

00:04:34.120 We live in this toxic world.

00:04:36.260 We know better than anyone how this works.

00:04:38.920 And having been the subject of a gazillion nasty articles, I have no sympathy for them.

00:04:44.500 I got to tell you, it's like I, too, have been the target of a lot.

00:04:47.380 I don't care.

00:04:48.540 Life goes on.

00:04:49.580 You understand it's part of the deal and you don't spend your grown up life whining about it.

00:04:54.780 I could not agree with you more.

00:04:57.120 I could not agree with you more.

00:04:59.320 And, you know, this sort of avalanche of negative press that they keep carping on about, you know, is really quite a fiction.

00:05:07.600 In the beginning of this second volume of this reality series, we see an abundance of positive press.

00:05:19.020 They open with the wedding itself.

00:05:21.640 They open with, you know, Meghan marveling that there were 115,000 people lining the streets and cheering.

00:05:29.780 We learn that not only did Charles enthusiastically walk Meghan halfway up the aisle, but that the queen, when presented with this idea of having a gospel choir at the ceremony, which had never been done at a royal wedding before,

00:05:45.560 she not only immediately greenlit the idea, but suggested that what they do was to take the best vocalists from every gospel choir in England and commingle them into one giant super group.

00:05:59.220 So, you know, again, these complaints, it's like they're rooting around for things to be aggrieved by.

00:06:06.180 And it's it's utterly perplexing on the list.

00:06:10.500 This is one of the greatest.

00:06:12.180 They they're unhappy with the cottage they lived in while at Kensington Palace.

00:06:18.280 Their facilities were too small, worry.

00:06:22.000 Oh, I know.

00:06:23.920 And she was horrified.

00:06:26.080 Even Oprah, the other queen, was horrified by their living conditions.

00:06:30.300 Oh, I loved how they just casually dropped in.

00:06:33.140 Remember, Oprah came over for tea.

00:06:35.340 You know, I loved also when Megan casually dropped in.

00:06:38.840 Oh, Beyonce just texted me.

00:06:40.560 She said I was an agent for generational change and killing trauma like this.

00:06:47.800 That happened.

00:06:48.760 But it's like what's great about it is the very next message in all these scenes is poor me, poor us.

00:06:55.360 We had so hard.

00:06:56.920 I want to show people a little bit of what you just said.

00:06:58.680 We've got that Beyonce moment on tape.

00:07:00.940 This is hot eight.

00:07:03.940 Beyonce just texted.

00:07:05.340 Really not.

00:07:08.120 Shut up.

00:07:08.840 Just checking in.

00:07:10.560 Just checking in.

00:07:11.720 Just casual.

00:07:12.860 I still can't believe she knows right now.

00:07:17.800 Don't call her.

00:07:19.160 No, it's okay.

00:07:19.880 She said she wants me to feel safe and protected.

00:07:23.060 She admires and respects my bravery and vulnerability and thinks I was selected to break generational curses that need to be healed.

00:07:30.520 It's awesome.

00:07:33.020 It's awesome.

00:07:33.660 This is after the Oprah interview.

00:07:36.660 It just so happens that she decided to read that and get that text when the cameras were rolling for their documentary.

00:07:41.880 Right, exactly.

00:07:43.880 Exactly.

00:07:44.280 And then my other favorite sort of quote unquote private moment they share is after the Oprah interview airs and they're in their kitchen and Harry or H, as Megan infuriatingly calls him, holds up his cell phone, his iPhone.

00:07:59.300 And she says, what?

00:08:00.860 And he says, it's a text from my brother.

00:08:03.100 And she gets up and she rolls her eyes and she says, I'm not going to say anything about your brother, but, you know, it's your brother.

00:08:12.020 Yeah.

00:08:12.720 It is, you know, like he's such a jerk.

00:08:15.880 He's such a it's it's that kind of passive aggressive shadow boxing that she does.

00:08:22.420 That is just it just makes her so profoundly unlikable.

00:08:27.940 Meanwhile, the brother is going to wind up king and these two are going to wind up a couple of podcasters in Montecito.

00:08:33.220 So it's like, OK, I have a podcast, but, you know, I wasn't a royal, so it's not a fault to get a podcast at this point.

00:08:40.720 I don't think Spotify is renewing Megan's archetypes for season two.

00:08:45.580 Oh, how could they?

00:08:47.740 How could they?

00:08:48.660 It was unlistenable.

00:08:50.160 Yes, it was.

00:08:51.740 And she's so here's the other thing that jumped out at me after they got out of the hideous palace.

00:08:57.180 They're like, you know, they say it's a palace.

00:08:59.040 But if you if you could just see our facilities, you know, that's so tiny.

00:09:01.840 Even Oprah was upset.

00:09:03.680 So then they get out.

00:09:04.960 Tyler Perry plays a major role in part two, or he rescues them from the hell that is being a royal.

00:09:11.040 And he flies them out to Montecito and he puts them up or wherever they were in California, puts them up at his mansion.

00:09:16.320 There's a scene of Harry going, oh, it's so beautiful.

00:09:18.780 You know, it's so beautiful.

00:09:19.860 And she's like, you know, it's not ours.

00:09:21.360 And he's like, but it could be.

00:09:23.460 Just let me just cut this hundred million dollar deal with Netflix and this could be ours.

00:09:27.180 And then Maureen.

00:09:28.200 The second part is it is they wind up at their Montecito mansion, which is 14 million bucks.

00:09:34.180 It's got nine bedrooms.

00:09:35.260 Reportedly.

00:09:36.240 It has stables.

00:09:37.760 It has mountain views.

00:09:39.360 It has the most beautiful grounds and vistas.

00:09:42.140 I've ever seen a massive gardens where the baby is picking the tomatoes with mama.

00:09:46.360 It's spectacular.

00:09:48.000 And in the midst of all this, there's a soundbite of Harry saying, all I ever wanted was this normal life.

00:09:53.940 OK, they're so they have no self-awareness.

00:09:58.600 This is not this is not normal.

00:10:00.500 This is not anybody.

00:10:01.360 This is why we all hate you.

00:10:03.740 This is why the world crawling out of, you know, post lockdown trauma, dealing with runaway inflation hates you.

00:10:14.160 And I also love so these two who never tire telling us how enthusiastically they are in pursuit of the most authentic life possible.

00:10:25.840 Right.

00:10:27.240 They we see Harry and Meghan leaving Vancouver in their words, essentially fleeing with nothing but the clothes on their backs.

00:10:36.220 They had no plan in place, which, again, that's squarely on them.

00:10:41.780 Um, Harry says that they are en route to meet a friend they've never met yet, which I mean, square that circle and that person being Tyler Perry, who, having never met them, simply offers up his mansion for, you know, an indefinite period of time.

00:11:03.560 That happens to all of us.

00:11:04.340 And then later turns around and asks him to be godfather to their second child, a new Hollywood friend.

00:11:11.900 They barely know shades of I'm going to take my beloved niece to the curb.

00:11:17.820 She can't come to my wedding.

00:11:19.140 But these celebrities I've never met, such as George Clooney and Oprah Winfrey and the Beckhams, they're invited.

00:11:26.180 You know, she's so she asks Tyler Perry to be godfather and he has the temerity to say to her, well, if it's over in England with your crew, you know, the royals, I won't be doing that.

00:11:43.080 Right.

00:11:43.860 Like the royals are so disgusting.

00:11:45.260 Who would spend time?

00:11:46.040 Meanwhile, they have everything, everything in their lives they owe to the royals.

00:11:49.820 Everything.

00:11:50.180 The only reason anyone cares what these two have to say, the only reason Netflix is getting a single viewer is because of the association with the royal family.

00:12:00.060 No one gave two dams about her when she was on Suits.

00:12:02.860 And Harry's been interesting because he's a prince within this royal family.

00:12:06.240 Once they stop talking about the royals, no one's what that's why the Spotify podcast was so insufferable and bad and poorly rated, because we don't actually care what she thinks about the world.

00:12:15.760 It's just their royal affiliation.

00:12:17.340 So how dare they portray it through Tyler's soundbite?

00:12:20.180 As if it's this disgusting thing with which they wouldn't, you know, they wouldn't go near it with a 10-foot pole now.

00:12:25.800 Right.

00:12:26.200 And you know why the Netflix series is as boring and difficult to watch as the podcast was to listen to?

00:12:33.700 It's because neither one of them actually have a discernible personality.

00:12:38.960 Neither one of them have anything original or interesting to say or to share.

00:12:44.220 That, you know, Harry doesn't have a personality and you can kind of understand it given, you know, the world into which he was born, the life into which he was born, his wealth and his privilege, his status.

00:12:55.600 Like that all sort of meant he never even really had to develop a personality.

00:12:59.580 You know, he was always going to be surrounded by people.

00:13:01.800 He was always going to be invited to the party.

00:13:04.500 Meghan, not so much.

00:13:06.100 You know, she climbed her way up that ladder.

00:13:11.120 But, you know, the other infuriating thing about her is she continues to pretend she had no idea who Prince Harry was until she met him.

00:13:20.500 She continues to insist that she had never heard of this entity called the British royal family.

00:13:26.560 The theme in the in last week's drop, when she mocked that curtsy to the queen, there's a reason that went viral.

00:13:35.700 It was so low and it was so emblematic to me of her gaping insecurity, which is her need to sort of bring down all things royal in order to elevate herself.

00:13:48.600 And it's like, well, you didn't seem to me making such a joke out of it when you were throwing a fit.

00:13:54.700 You didn't get the tiara you wanted for your wedding.

00:13:57.660 You thought those symbols were important.

00:14:00.200 But I guess the curtsy to the queen was a bridge too far, which I don't even believe.

00:14:03.540 I believe she curtsied to the queen just like a normal person would.

00:14:06.360 And now she's just trying to revise the story so she can sound like, ha ha ha, I'm in on it.

00:14:11.500 I'm an American.

00:14:12.340 Screw the royal family.

00:14:13.120 I knew it from the start.

00:14:14.280 Now, here's the thing I wanted to ask you about there.

00:14:16.560 There's a scene in this part two where she's talking about how she realizes what's happening, how she's been fed to the wolves.

00:14:24.320 And her friends are calling her up saying, Meg, they're not protecting you.

00:14:30.880 They're not protecting you.

00:14:32.380 Now, Maureen, as a person who's been in the press quite a bit in my career, often negative, sometimes positive, I have had people in my life who do this, who are like the, I'm so sorry.

00:14:42.520 Are you OK?

00:14:43.200 Are you OK?

00:14:43.700 And I learned pretty quickly in my career as a public figure, just right back to my friends.

00:14:47.660 Don't do that.

00:14:48.560 I don't need that.

00:14:49.300 I don't read press about myself for this very reason.

00:14:51.840 Like the press is going to do what we're going to do.

00:14:53.340 I'm part of it.

00:14:53.900 I have a foot in both camps, so I get it.

00:14:55.560 But I don't want your condolence texts.

00:14:57.820 That doesn't help.

00:14:59.600 She doesn't have the maturity to understand that.

00:15:01.560 What, in fact, to this moment, she's repeating it on air with Netflix in an effort to make us feel sorry for her.

00:15:06.700 And this was supposed to be her aha moment of how, like, she needed to fight back against this evil palace.

00:15:13.700 This is how the game works.

00:15:16.080 Any seasoned journalist is like, you know what?

00:15:18.520 Maybe the palace did dish dirt on them to deflect off of William and Kate.

00:15:22.600 I actually I think a lot of British journalists are going to say that's not true.

00:15:25.880 I kind of believe it.

00:15:27.100 And I don't care.

00:15:28.160 I don't care.

00:15:29.300 This is how the game works.

00:15:30.320 Exactly.

00:15:32.380 It's the cost of doing business.

00:15:34.220 So what is Megan?

00:15:35.700 You can't be such a savvy, sophisticated, independent, rule breaking maverick figure.

00:15:44.060 While also being a total victim who doesn't understand how the game works.

00:15:49.620 And needs her friends in Hollywood to tell her that she is being taken advantage of by a media that she depicts as as monolithic, as as moving in lockstep, which you and I both know is just completely it's it's.

00:16:08.940 To even feign that level of naivete is ridiculous and a gross miscalculation.

00:16:14.520 You know, my other favorite thing about these two and their their media tour over the past couple of weeks.

00:16:22.620 And you're so right, too, about having, you know, a foot in both camps.

00:16:26.460 These two have a foot in both camps.

00:16:29.260 You can't you can't castigate the media for being so barbaric to you and then go and cash checks from the biggest media entities on the planet.

00:16:38.940 Right.

00:16:39.460 Checks that are meant to pay for your family secrets and your personal torments and everything you're supposed to hold sacred.

00:16:46.720 But last week, when they were at the RFK gala getting honored for standing up to, quote unquote, institutional racism.

00:16:55.940 One of the star columnists at the Daily Mail went right up to Gayle King and said, do you believe that the royal family is racist?

00:17:02.240 And she said, no, of course not.

00:17:04.240 Alec Baldwin on the red carpet was asked, do you believe the royal family is racist?

00:17:08.560 He said, no, of course not.

00:17:10.940 So what are we all doing here?

00:17:13.200 Right.

00:17:13.920 They're still on it.

00:17:15.160 Here's OK.

00:17:16.980 There is an author.

00:17:19.060 I don't forgive me.

00:17:20.140 I don't I'm not familiar, but his name is Kendi Andrews.

00:17:23.240 And he's talking about that yet again in the second part.

00:17:27.480 Racism, racism, racism.

00:17:28.660 And she talks about how she was just shocked, shocked, shocked after the Oprah interview when she told us all she was suicidal.

00:17:33.780 At one point, that was supposed to be the lead, Maureen, that we were supposed to understand that was our lead.

00:17:38.480 That instead, the biggest takeaway was she accused the royal family of being racist.

00:17:42.900 Well, hello.

00:17:44.200 She knew very well that that was going to be the headline.

00:17:46.760 She's not an idiot.

00:17:48.060 Can't say I'm sure about Harry, but she's not an idiot.

00:17:51.220 She knew with racism that that was going to be the takeaway.

00:17:53.740 Anyway, here's this author talking about once again, this is all about race.

00:17:56.960 The backlash against her sought five.

00:18:00.000 So the UK is perfect at doing this, right?

00:18:02.300 Nobody wants to be openly racist.

00:18:04.540 That wouldn't be civilized.

00:18:05.460 That would be British.

00:18:06.500 But it's perfectly fine to kind of dog whistle, give a nod to.

00:18:10.560 He's a diva.

00:18:11.880 He's making people cry.

00:18:13.320 It's kind of angry black woman trope.

00:18:15.120 He just really came that came to the fore really quite suddenly.

00:18:19.080 OK, I'm sorry.

00:18:20.160 And I just say for the record, I've been called all that stuff to all of it.

00:18:22.840 I'm not black.

00:18:23.880 It's like it's not even because I'm a woman either.

00:18:26.080 I'm in the public eye.

00:18:28.180 She's in the public eye times 10,000.

00:18:31.380 Like, why do they have to make it about color at every stage?

00:18:35.620 And it's such a terrible condemnation and such an unfair condemnation of Britain itself,

00:18:44.820 of, you know, one of the most diverse countries in Western Europe.

00:18:49.640 It's an unfair and untrue condemnation of the royal family, which by Meghan's own admission

00:18:58.020 did nothing but fast track her in, welcome her in, try to get her to learn the ropes as

00:19:04.740 quickly as possible.

00:19:06.080 As we saw in the beginning of that series, the media was just lavishing praise on her as

00:19:13.300 a as a breath of fresh air and the power that she and Harry would have had the kind of soft

00:19:20.380 power, but real world power they could have had had they stayed.

00:19:24.720 But their real issue, their real rage is that they would forever be second best.

00:19:30.380 They would forever be relegated to number two.

00:19:33.520 And they they can't have that.

00:19:36.280 They can't.

00:19:36.680 They constitutionally cannot stand it.

00:19:39.040 Neither one of them.

00:19:39.940 But they are running out of steam.

00:19:42.080 Tough it out.

00:19:42.740 Like nobody.

00:19:43.460 Does anybody even remember that Prince Charles has like yet another brother?

00:19:48.460 You got Andrew and then you got the youngest one.

00:19:50.820 I can't remember his name sitting here right now.

00:19:52.680 The brother of the air leaves the news cycle eventually.

00:19:57.100 I'm sure there was a lot of press about him.

00:19:59.640 Like eventually they forget about you unless you start hanging out with pedophiles like Andrew

00:20:03.400 did.

00:20:03.740 And then you're back in the news.

00:20:05.220 And this was going to happen to Harry, too.

00:20:06.460 And according to Valentine Roy, this British author, Harry was dreading it.

00:20:10.360 He wanted to stay in the spotlight.

00:20:11.820 Well, guess what?

00:20:12.840 The bad comes with that.

00:20:14.480 Good.

00:20:15.100 Let's spend a minute on the friend.

00:20:17.660 OK, I can't remember what her name is, but she's got the long hair.

00:20:20.140 She kind of has hair like Megan's hair.

00:20:22.280 And Abigail is she's the one who's like crying.

00:20:25.820 She's like crying.

00:20:26.980 She's like, yeah, she was hurting.

00:20:29.920 And like, I couldn't do anything to protect her.

00:20:32.780 Abigail.

00:20:33.240 OK, and then these two.

00:20:37.000 Actually try to blame Megan's miscarriage on her emotions.

00:20:42.840 Which is bullshit, because now they're telling women worldwide, if you're stressed out, you're

00:20:49.800 going to kill your baby.

00:20:50.580 Right.

00:20:50.980 If you're getting bad press, it could kill your baby.

00:20:52.660 Like there have been doctor statements on this, you know, like miscarriage in the very

00:20:57.280 early part of pregnancy.

00:20:58.200 I'm not a doctor, but you don't bring that on by being too stressed out.

00:21:02.440 And so she wants they Terry actually blames it on the royal family and the bad press.

00:21:08.980 Yeah.

00:21:09.580 You know, one of the there I will say there is one sort of fascinating aspect to watching

00:21:14.480 this whole thing play out.

00:21:15.880 And it's this really, I think, sick dynamic that these two have with each other.

00:21:22.980 They really stoke the worst in each other and bring out the worst in each other.

00:21:27.640 So it feels as though Harry is sort of attempting to replay this trauma he endured in losing his

00:21:36.700 mother in such a sudden, unexpected, tragic way.

00:21:42.220 And his default is to blame the media, you know, not her drunk driver, not that his mother

00:21:48.560 wasn't wearing a seatbelt, none of that.

00:21:51.280 And Meghan seems to also feed into this need he has to save the most important woman in

00:21:57.200 his life, who now is Meghan.

00:21:59.220 So there's this really weird scene in last week's part where they're in the backseat

00:22:06.760 of this SUV and they're in New York City and they're being chauffeured from as Meghan says

00:22:12.780 from garage to garage and they spy or so they say one lone paparazzo on a bike, right?

00:22:20.060 Like one guy who's like on a scooter and Meghan leans into Harry and she goes, safety first.

00:22:27.060 Oh my God.

00:22:28.620 It's so sick.

00:22:30.360 It's so sick.

00:22:31.680 But like that's they're in this weird little bubble they've created where like they're saving

00:22:37.900 each other.

00:22:38.920 And then when they're through saving each other, they're going to somehow save the world.

00:22:43.340 And in doing so, they must need to somehow abolish the monarchy.

00:22:48.780 I mean, it's it's it's it's outer limits.

00:22:52.240 It's our self-talk.

00:22:54.540 There's self-talk in the midst of all of this is not.

00:22:57.060 It's not empowering.

00:22:58.100 It's not.

00:22:59.160 I always find it very empowering to say, what can I do better?

00:23:01.980 How can I fix my life?

00:23:03.200 What can I what could I have done differently?

00:23:05.080 You know, that that's empowering, actually.

00:23:07.320 And no, no, no, this is this is what they do.

00:23:10.940 They have a guided meditation, which, of course, Maureen, they just happen to have on camera

00:23:14.820 for us all.

00:23:16.420 She's an actress.

00:23:17.540 She brings the tears.

00:23:18.960 Let's not forget.

00:23:19.600 This is what she gets paid to do before she got married.

00:23:22.180 SOT 7 brings us to what their messaging is about themselves.

00:23:25.380 When you try to prove that you're good and that you're not the person they say you are.

00:23:33.020 You're taking the bait.

00:23:34.540 You're feeding the beast.

00:23:36.300 It is an illusion.

00:23:39.260 Your work is not to prove your goodness.

00:23:42.640 You know who you are, both of you.

00:23:44.700 And you just are good.

00:23:48.460 She that's basically their message throughout is we are the good ones.

00:23:53.180 And every piece of bad press about us was a lie.

00:23:56.740 I know.

00:23:58.800 And that scene, too, is like it's the the money shot of the trailer originally was Megan wiping

00:24:05.740 those tears off both cheeks as Harry threw his head back in like helpless exasperation.

00:24:12.780 And, you know, it sort of led you to believe they were having they were in the middle of

00:24:17.140 some real serious conflict with real stakes.

00:24:20.140 And no, it's the aftermath of some personalized guided meditation, reinforcing all of their

00:24:26.460 worst impulses.

00:24:28.400 And Megan, to that point about their self-talk being so negative, you're so right about that

00:24:33.960 because one of the other scenes that really stuck out for me in this morning's edition

00:24:38.620 was Harry talking about the aftermath of their wedding and their first royal tour to Australia

00:24:48.060 and then to South Africa and how they were kind of on this victory lap.

00:24:51.620 And he's he he's a little puffed up and you can tell he's like feeling himself a little

00:24:55.680 and he says, I'm amazed at what we were able to accomplish in such a short period of time.

00:25:00.660 And Megan looks at him in utter somber seriousness and says, well, even more so because, you know,

00:25:09.520 I was pregnant.

00:25:10.580 That was hard.

00:25:11.940 And you see Harry's face just fall.

00:25:14.540 It's like nothing can be a win.

00:25:16.480 Nothing can give them any joy.

00:25:18.800 They must be suffering at all hours of the day.

00:25:22.660 Also, like the insanity of her thinking, do you know what every working mother out there

00:25:28.780 in America and the UK and beyond does when they're pregnant?

00:25:31.980 Shut up.

00:25:32.800 No one cares that you were pampered day and night and then you had to go out and be loved

00:25:37.940 and adored by a bunch of people while you're shut the F up.

00:25:41.340 We all go to work every day.

00:25:43.000 It's very fucking hard.

00:25:44.460 I don't feel sorry for you.

00:25:46.140 You know, like I didn't have people bringing me my meals and put it rubbing my feet at the

00:25:50.120 end of the day, as I guarantee you, these two did.

00:25:52.400 No one cares.

00:25:53.640 Our sympathies aren't with you.

00:25:55.220 They are with the women who work two or three jobs just to put food on the table, who have

00:25:59.720 husbands who aren't present, who are already supporting kids, who are in shitty jobs and

00:26:04.120 they're not going to get a vacation.

00:26:05.200 I don't care.

00:26:06.420 You know what I mean?

00:26:07.000 She can't get over it.

00:26:08.580 And yet here's Harry.

00:26:09.620 Here's a little bit of this recalling like one of those tours and why the family, not

00:26:14.760 the media, why the family turned on them because they were just that good.

00:26:20.100 It's Sato.

00:26:20.500 The issue is when someone who's marrying in who should be a supporting, a supporting

00:26:26.840 act is then stealing the limelight or is doing the job better than the person who was born

00:26:32.220 to do this, that upsets people.

00:26:34.780 It shifts the balance because you've been led to believe that the only way that your

00:26:41.380 charities can succeed and the only way that your reputation can be grown or improved is

00:26:47.180 if you're on the front page, front pages of those newspapers, but the media are the ones

00:26:53.000 who choose who to put on the front page.

00:26:55.560 My God, they show for the listening audience, they're showing now King Charles, then Prince

00:27:01.780 Charles, Kate Middleton and the Queen.

00:27:05.680 Those are the three.

00:27:06.960 This documentary is saying we're overshadowed by Megan because the next scene is all Megan's

00:27:12.560 covers about her.

00:27:14.420 So she overshadowed the Queen, the now King and Kate Middleton.

00:27:18.260 And those were the nasty, petty, jealous ones, apparently.

00:27:22.480 Right.

00:27:23.160 And Megan, she overshadowed them to such a degree.

00:27:26.220 Don't forget, she refrained from wearing bright colors for nearly her entire 72 day tenure as

00:27:34.680 a working royal.

00:27:36.020 She made the supreme sacrifice to wear oatmeal, cream, beige, brown, just to blend in.

00:27:46.600 Yep.

00:27:47.540 She doesn't get enough credit for that.

00:27:49.400 Thoughts and prayers, really.

00:27:51.360 Poor girl.

00:27:52.920 Poor girl.

00:27:54.900 There's so much goodness in here.

00:27:56.820 One of the biggest things, though, is the mismatch, like the juxtaposition of the sob story

00:28:03.200 against the perfect, curated life.

00:28:07.560 Every scene is curated.

00:28:09.060 Every friend is curated.

00:28:10.960 The soundtrack, which is borrowed right out of Downton Abbey.

00:28:14.900 You know, it's all supposed to be building this magnificent love story like nobody has

00:28:20.640 ever been loved more.

00:28:22.080 Maureen, these two, they're the number one lovers against like this sad, everyone was

00:28:29.080 mean.

00:28:29.580 And it ends with her absurd reading of her weird little wedding speech to him.

00:28:35.120 She read it out loud.

00:28:37.220 Wasn't it?

00:28:37.940 You know, that is also the thing I've been thinking about since watching both of these

00:28:43.040 drops, this six hour wine fest, is that really when you get down to it, they're both really

00:28:50.680 weird.

00:28:51.920 Yeah, they're odd.

00:28:52.480 They don't fit in the world like they can't really think they can't move in the world the

00:28:58.380 way other people can or do, nor do I think they want to.

00:29:02.040 I think that that in their sick sort of psyches would mean that they're actually one of us

00:29:09.080 in some ways.

00:29:10.580 I think they really need to believe they're so much better and that they exist on this

00:29:15.020 higher plane.

00:29:16.120 Um, so and maybe in that way, it's, it's great that they've found each other.

00:29:21.660 I it's a positive note.

00:29:23.540 Her, her self-talk and his like self-help talk.

00:29:27.160 I was turtling.

00:29:28.480 I was cocooning.

00:29:30.120 I recognize my unconscious bias.

00:29:32.860 This is what happens when you speak truth to power.

00:29:35.040 I'm like, oh my God, this is like spending the day with Ibram X.

00:29:38.220 Kendi.

00:29:38.500 Oh my God.

00:29:39.980 I could do like a whole self-talk.

00:29:41.700 I wish I had picked up on that.

00:29:42.720 I could do like a whole column on that.

00:29:44.520 One of the words she used that I thought I found really creepy.

00:29:48.440 She was talking about, okay.

00:29:49.940 So she was talking about the people magazine cover that I mean, only in Meghan Markle's

00:29:54.700 world, her friends without her knowledge engineered as a pick me up, right.

00:30:01.080 For all the bad press she was getting in, in, in the UK.

00:30:04.280 And then she turns around and says, that cover story was a mistake.

00:30:09.480 Who's responsible for this.

00:30:11.520 And she uses this really weird word.

00:30:14.160 She says, I was afraid that something in the papers, it was, she said, I thought it was

00:30:21.160 planted there as a way to form like an imprint.

00:30:24.540 She used the word imprint as a noun.

00:30:28.120 Like does that.

00:30:29.060 That's her thing.

00:30:29.740 And she uses nouns as verbs.

00:30:31.340 It's so, it's so, um, precious and annoying and just, again, for someone who's supposed

00:30:40.020 to be so highly educated, it, it, it, it's all, it's all this like soft sanded.

00:30:45.240 It's like what I call like the language of like morning shows, you know, that are hosted

00:30:50.940 by these women who wear like necklaces with their children's initials and diamonds.

00:30:55.540 And they talk a lot of nonsense about like finding your power and standing in it or standing

00:31:04.120 in your truth or taking up space.

00:31:06.080 There's a lot of verbs going with like vague nouns.

00:31:09.040 It's just, and, and it's, it's nonsense.

00:31:11.240 It means nothing.

00:31:12.380 It doesn't mean anything.

00:31:13.120 And that's where we're at with the discourse that, you know, we're being afforded with the

00:31:18.360 Megan and Harry show.

00:31:19.400 Yeah, no, it is completely vapid.

00:31:21.560 It is empty.

00:31:22.180 It's, as my husband would say, an air sandwich.

00:31:24.660 Here's the question now, where are we now?

00:31:27.040 Okay.

00:31:27.260 So they, they finally, she said her hope a couple of years ago was for truth.

00:31:31.740 She wanted truth to prevail and then truth didn't bring her any peace.

00:31:35.420 You see, Maureen.

00:31:35.960 So that's what this is about.

00:31:37.060 This is telling your story, taking control of your story.

00:31:40.180 That's going to bring her peace.

00:31:42.160 And you and I both know as member of the media, um, this is not going to bring them peace.

00:31:46.900 They did not stand down the daily mail, the New York post, you, me, the sun, the tabloids,

00:31:53.380 people magazine, anybody.

00:31:54.840 They didn't the telegraph.

00:31:55.820 I could go.

00:31:56.360 The media do not get deterred by you suing them, attacking them, playing the victim and

00:32:02.440 continuing to do ridiculous, absurd, self-aggrandizing, pathetic things.

00:32:08.860 Right.

00:32:09.540 You don't get to put yourself in the crosshairs and then complain that there's something pointed

00:32:13.880 in your direction.

00:32:15.080 Right?

00:32:15.400 Right.

00:32:15.920 Yeah.

00:32:16.180 So next we're going to have the book, Harry's memoir, which, you know, I'm sure promises

00:32:23.440 more quote unquote truth bombs in their parlance.

00:32:27.140 Um, but I do think these two are running on empty.

00:32:29.900 I don't think they have any more content to give, uh, nor do I think they've got like a

00:32:35.200 smoking gun.

00:32:35.940 I think we would have heard this by now.

00:32:37.540 Hmm.

00:32:38.560 Yes.

00:32:38.920 I'll bet you they're saving the, the angry William text for his book spare, which comes

00:32:44.680 out just a few weeks after Christmas.

00:32:46.960 It's like a belated Christmas present, uh, from them to the family.

00:32:50.160 So, so lovely.

00:32:51.180 Yeah.

00:32:52.060 I love the King.

00:32:54.900 Yeah, that's right.

00:32:55.500 She's probably next up.

00:32:56.600 She probably also was horrified by the size of their little cottage.

00:32:59.760 Maureen.

00:33:00.040 I love reading you.

00:33:01.080 Everybody's got to read Maureen Callahan.

00:33:02.260 And every word is delicious to feast on.

00:33:05.960 So check out all of her columns.

00:33:07.920 Uh, you can check it out at daily mail.

00:33:09.520 Great to see you.

00:33:10.800 Great to see you, Megan.

00:33:12.140 All right.

00:33:12.380 We're going to have much more on all this when Dan Wooden joins us with the full reaction

00:33:16.260 on tomorrow's show.

00:33:18.060 And we will be right back with Kirk Cameron.

00:33:20.620 Looking forward to this.

00:33:21.620 Stand by.

00:33:25.920 Beat, beat, beatboxing actually has hidden health benefits.

00:33:29.280 It can help strengthen, strengthen, strengthen,

00:33:32.260 and protect, protect, protect, protect, your voice from injury.

00:33:37.100 Discover more ways to see healthy living differently with Manulife at manulife.za slash help.

00:33:42.340 Now let's get that beat.

00:33:52.340 As long as we got each other, we got the world spinning right in our hands, baby.

00:34:01.160 You and me, we gotta be the luckiest dreamers who never quit dreaming.

00:34:09.240 Doesn't that just take you back?

00:34:12.040 First of all, welcome back to the Megan Kelly show.

00:34:13.800 I, that instantly takes me back.

00:34:15.920 And today we are super excited to have one of the stars.

00:34:18.780 I mean, the biggest star, let's be honest, of Growing Pains with us.

00:34:22.760 In the years since that huge hit show, he has become well-known for his outspoken beliefs

00:34:29.320 and faith.

00:34:30.320 He is a devoted family man and somehow has managed to make his marriage of 30 years work

00:34:37.900 in Hollywood.

00:34:39.820 Along with his wife, Chelsea, Kirk Cameron has raised six, count them, six children.

00:34:45.360 He's author of the new children's book, As You Grow, and he's host of the American Campfire

00:34:51.540 Revival with Kirk Cameron podcast, which is really great.

00:34:56.360 If you are somebody, a person of faith who wants to sort of get back to, what is it about

00:35:00.000 our country that's so special?

00:35:01.420 You'll love the American Campfire Revival.

00:35:03.700 Kirk, welcome to the show.

00:35:05.240 Thank you, Megan.

00:35:06.220 It's great to meet you.

00:35:07.500 Really an honor to be talking with you.

00:35:09.780 Thank you.

00:35:10.240 Likewise.

00:35:10.540 So that theme song really did bring me back.

00:35:13.540 And I want to take you, I'm sure you've heard this a million times, but you and I are almost

00:35:16.040 exactly the same age.

00:35:17.080 You were born October of 1970.

00:35:19.100 I was born one month later, November of 1970.

00:35:21.800 So we're both 52.

00:35:23.880 I was one of those starry-eyed young women.

00:35:27.660 I think I was like a tween when you were the big star on Growing Pains.

00:35:32.040 And can I tell you something?

00:35:33.720 You are the only fan letter I've ever written.

00:35:37.500 It was to you.

00:35:38.300 I sat, I hand wrote it out.

00:35:41.020 I was, all I remember was that I was trying to convince you to love me.

00:35:44.820 I was like listing my credentials, like what I had done in school.

00:35:51.180 I don't remember if I sent it, but I never got a response.

00:35:55.580 Megan, you did.

00:35:56.780 You sent it.

00:35:58.200 And that's why I'm here on your show right now is to finally reply after 35 years to say,

00:36:05.640 thank you, Megan, for your letter.

00:36:07.180 It was so sweet.

00:36:08.980 And I'm going to send you the last remaining dreamy Mike Seaver pillowcase.

00:36:15.380 It should be arriving in the mail in about two days.

00:36:18.360 I can die now.

00:36:19.520 I'm good.

00:36:20.160 It's all, I forgive everybody.

00:36:22.640 If I, if I, you know, it's funny is if I had known that Megan Kelly was watching on the other

00:36:28.640 side of that camera lens, it's just, it's crazy to me to think about that now, noticing you

00:36:35.460 and all that you're doing and things.

00:36:37.340 Megan Kelly was watching.

00:36:38.360 I probably would have been, you know, more concerned about, you know, how I looked, what

00:36:44.020 I said, all these sorts of things.

00:36:45.280 That actually is meaningful to me.

00:36:47.220 I'm not going to lie.

00:36:48.140 You, you wound up marrying a different girl and I approved of your choice because she came

00:36:52.820 on the show and she's, your wife is like this preternaturally beautiful woman.

00:36:59.860 I mean, she's like kind of glowy, you know, she's just this person.

00:37:03.560 And you're like, what, how did this person get to be like this and emanate these kinds

00:37:07.960 of vibes in the world?

00:37:08.680 I wasn't surprised at all that you got married.

00:37:11.400 Well, you know, my, my kids are surprised that she married me.

00:37:15.460 My, my son says, dad, you really scored.

00:37:17.440 I mean, how did you, how did you pull that one off?

00:37:19.260 I mean, mom is amazing.

00:37:20.860 I'm like, I know, I, I, I, you know, it was a gift.

00:37:25.400 I fully admit it.

00:37:26.660 I'm going to find out one day she's, you know, she has wings.

00:37:29.140 She's secretly an angel.

00:37:30.740 Um, uh, everyone who knows her thinks so.

00:37:33.040 And, but, but everybody at the time was like, it'll never last is you were 20 years old

00:37:37.740 when you got married.

00:37:38.600 She's a few years older than you.

00:37:40.280 And everybody's like, there's no way it's going to last.

00:37:42.000 These are like Hollywood stars.

00:37:43.400 This is stupid.

00:37:44.700 You prove them all wrong.

00:37:46.160 So how did you do that?

00:37:49.380 I was, we were 19.

00:37:50.960 I was 19 when, when we met.

00:37:53.000 And, uh, I, I thought to myself, man, there's no way.

00:37:56.540 I mean, she's, she's out of my league and, and, and every way.

00:37:59.640 And then when I realized that we shared so many of the same values and the same faith,

00:38:03.640 we were both new to, to, uh, our faith in God.

00:38:06.640 I thought, wow, this is, this is amazing.

00:38:08.300 And I asked her out and she went out with me and, and pretty soon, like everything just

00:38:11.600 fell into place.

00:38:12.180 And she said, yes, we got married.

00:38:15.860 I think, I think at the end of the day, I, I understand that I married up and out of my

00:38:21.200 league.

00:38:21.520 And that when I look around and I, I see the diet, the downward spiral that so many people

00:38:29.100 are in, but families and marriages in generally speaking and culture, I recognize that I've

00:38:34.740 got a great deal here.

00:38:36.500 And my wife is an amazing priceless catch.

00:38:40.740 I tell my kids all the time, guys, don't worry about us ever splitting up.

00:38:43.540 If mom ever leaves me, I'm going with her, uh, because I'm never going to do better than

00:38:48.100 this.

00:38:48.840 And, uh, truly, I mean, it truly, I'm, I'm grateful.

00:38:52.340 I, I, I recognize treasure when I see it.

00:38:55.180 The faith is huge.

00:38:56.540 That plays a big role.

00:38:57.840 If you connect over God in the midst of faith and nurture it in each other, in your lives,

00:39:03.220 in your children's lives, I'm not going to say none of those marriages fall apart, but

00:39:07.080 it does make it tougher for them to fall apart.

00:39:10.160 I think you're right.

00:39:11.220 I think it is, it is the glue that holds us together because we're both committed to something

00:39:15.060 that's much bigger than our marriage or our happiness.

00:39:18.000 Um, if, if, if marriage was simply a contract, um, that says, Hey, you know, let's just keep

00:39:24.160 this party going, uh, while I'm still happy with you, then, um, you know, we probably would

00:39:29.200 have been over a long time ago, but we look back and we say, wow, uh, I think that there

00:39:36.620 is, has been a story that has been written over the last 31 years that is pretty great.

00:39:42.500 And we couldn't have written this ourselves.

00:39:44.100 We just trusted in the author who was writing the story and it involved six beautiful kids.

00:39:49.000 Four of our kids are adopted.

00:39:51.180 Um, I've learned so much from my wife by, uh, honoring her, listening to her, understanding

00:39:57.300 that, uh, I need her and, uh, it's not good for, for me to be, uh, all alone.

00:40:03.820 And I think that she recognizes similar things and we're better together.

00:40:08.200 So trusting in the author of marriage and life and doing things according to the manual,

00:40:16.140 which for us is the Bible has really served us well.

00:40:19.660 And, uh, I can honestly say, I can't wait for the next 31 years.

00:40:23.500 Grandbabies are on the way.

00:40:24.480 Oh, I know your kids are getting older now that they're what I had this on my sheet.

00:40:28.860 I know they're like between 19 and 27.

00:40:32.540 Is that right?

00:40:33.660 That's right.

00:40:34.340 Yeah, that's right.

00:40:35.000 Yep.

00:40:35.160 Our baby's 19.

00:40:36.520 And, uh, I mean, my, my, my youngest child has a beard.

00:40:39.500 It's, it's, it's amazing to me how fast this all goes by and they've all moved out of the

00:40:43.860 house.

00:40:44.060 So it's, it's emptiness syndrome.

00:40:46.080 Although we're really excited that we're, the house is going to be filled back up with them

00:40:49.300 at Christmas.

00:40:49.720 So as you can see, we've got the Christmas decorations up here at the fireplace and, uh,

00:40:55.060 very excited for everybody to come home.

00:40:56.940 Ah, now the thing about the, about adopting children, um, good friends of mine adopted

00:41:01.960 both of their kids and they, they wrestled for so long with infertility and they were

00:41:07.460 devastated.

00:41:08.000 And I don't think that was your situation, but they were devastated that they weren't

00:41:11.520 going to be able to have their own biological children.

00:41:13.260 And then they wound up adopting two little girls.

00:41:15.500 And I remember them saying, if only we knew when we went through all the emotional turmoil

00:41:20.580 of not being able to have our own, how you just totally forget.

00:41:24.860 It's a nothing.

00:41:26.140 Once you have this child, it is a nothing that you're not genetically connected to this

00:41:29.680 person.

00:41:30.040 And I've read you say you, you forget which of your kids was adopted in which, cause you

00:41:35.180 wound up having two biological children after you adopted four as well.

00:41:38.260 So speak to that a little.

00:41:40.780 Yeah.

00:41:41.900 Well, adoption is a very special part of our family.

00:41:44.580 And, and, uh, my wife is an adopted child herself.

00:41:48.080 So it was her brother.

00:41:49.000 So when we started the conversations about having our own kids, uh, we started with how about

00:41:54.780 adoption?

00:41:55.220 And we knew that there were thousands and thousands of babies out there who are needing

00:42:00.780 parents.

00:42:02.160 And Chelsea was, uh, uh, you know, on the receiving end of two loving, uh, people who adopted and

00:42:08.880 gave her a great family.

00:42:10.120 So we thought, why don't we start our family through adoption?

00:42:12.520 And so we actually chose, uh, voluntarily to adopt our first four children.

00:42:19.080 And we were going down that road and it was great.

00:42:21.300 I mean, we adopted Jack, uh, and Bella and Anna and Luke, and they were all the same.

00:42:25.220 All infants.

00:42:25.760 When we adopted them all here domestically, none of them are biologically related.

00:42:29.640 And it was wonderful, uh, one year apart.

00:42:33.000 So when Chelsea told me one day that she was pregnant, I was like, wow, we, we weren't, we

00:42:39.480 weren't really expecting that or planning on that, but we were thrilled.

00:42:43.760 Chelsea had Olivia.

00:42:44.740 And then, um, about a year later, uh, she was pregnant with James.

00:42:48.280 So we had six children, seven years old and under.

00:42:53.440 So if you can imagine, uh, you know, getting up and going to school or going to the grocery

00:42:58.400 store with, uh, six car seats or five car seats in the 15 passenger van while Chelsea's

00:43:05.660 pregnant.

00:43:06.000 And I'm off traveling on the road somewhere.

00:43:08.160 So again, this, this is just increasing the angel factor of my wife.

00:43:12.760 She, she, she is a rock star and, uh, and those were great days.

00:43:17.820 And then when they all become teenagers, that those were even crazier days.

00:43:21.340 So, uh, you know, I mean, think of having a 20 year old, 19, 18, 17, 16, and 15 year

00:43:26.400 old.

00:43:27.140 No, no, I'd rather not.

00:43:28.220 Now, you know, now, you know, now, you know why we pray.

00:43:29.980 But it's the only way forward.

00:43:33.120 It's the only way forward.

00:43:34.500 All right.

00:43:34.700 I have to ask you because we just mentioned Ibram Kendi in our first segment, and it made

00:43:38.760 me think of you because some of your children, if I'm not mistaken, are mixed race or, or

00:43:42.820 of they're not white.

00:43:44.500 And, um, you know, there's this growing message by some on the left, including him, that there's

00:43:50.460 something suspicious or problematic about white couples who adopt black babies or mixed

00:43:58.160 race babies.

00:43:58.940 Now, he claims he didn't mean to impugn Amy Coney Barrett, who did the same, um, when he

00:44:04.280 tweeted out during her confirmation hearing, some white colonizers adopted black children.

00:44:09.040 They civilized these savage children in the superior ways of white people while using them

00:44:13.300 as props in their lifelong pictures of denial while cutting the biological parents of these

00:44:17.100 children out of the picture of humanity.

00:44:19.080 Uh, and then he goes on to say, whether that's Barrett or not is not the point.

00:44:22.340 It's a belief too many white people have if they adopt or have a child of color, then they

00:44:26.080 can't be racist.

00:44:26.900 I wonder if you've ever had any weird pushback like that on your beautiful decision to adopt

00:44:32.020 a child irrespective of his or her race in your life.

00:44:34.660 Well, you'd think that the human race has evolved past that kind of, of ludicrous thinking.

00:44:41.780 Uh, and, and, and surely at this point that we have, I, I think there are those who still

00:44:46.460 profit off of the old ways of thinking and, and, and perpetuating a victim mentality.

00:44:52.000 Um, I can just tell you that in our family, we, we've got this beautiful array of colors

00:44:57.680 of skin and, and the idea that some of, some of our kids have more melanin content, melanin

00:45:02.380 content in their skin than I do.

00:45:04.420 Um, uh, just, just makes it interesting.

00:45:09.820 And all of the other factors that come through adoption.

00:45:12.940 I mean, some of our kids are incredibly musically talented.

00:45:15.680 I'm not, uh, some of our kids are very academic.

00:45:18.200 Some of them are very people or sports oriented.

00:45:20.520 And, and all of this comes from all of this, this, this genetic, uh, hodgepodge that's all

00:45:26.700 come together in this beautifully, this beautiful tapestry called the Cameron family.

00:45:30.320 And, um, adoption has been wonderful for us and it was never an issue growing up.

00:45:36.140 Um, you, you, you literally just, I see my kids, I don't see the color of their skin.

00:45:40.020 Some of them have a better tan than I do.

00:45:41.540 Uh, and, and, and other, other characteristics, but, um, it's when they get out into the world

00:45:47.360 and people start to say things to you like, um, oh, um, you know, which ones are yours

00:45:54.300 or which, which, which ones of these are your kids.

00:45:57.440 And they say that sort of like mindlessly in front of the kids who know exactly what

00:46:01.860 they're saying.

00:46:02.720 And so you just sort of want to go, hello, um, are you, are you aware of what you're saying?

00:46:08.580 Yeah.

00:46:08.880 There's all, uh, we said, of course, all of them are our kids.

00:46:11.900 Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes.

00:46:13.420 So, you know, I love, I love how our families come together.

00:46:20.340 I love adoption.

00:46:21.360 I think, I think adoption is at the heart of God.

00:46:23.980 It's Christmas time and I, it's not lost on me that, that even the baby Jesus was the

00:46:29.120 result of an unplanned pregnancy from Mary's human point of view and Joseph full of love

00:46:35.900 for Mary and faith in God adopted and raised that baby boy as his own son.

00:46:43.920 And as a result, here we are 2000 years later, celebrating salvation, redemption, and new beginnings

00:46:50.580 for humanity.

00:46:54.340 So, uh, I, I'm just all in on adoption.

00:46:54.920 I love it.

00:46:55.340 Highly recommend it.

00:46:56.160 In fact, I just made a movie about it called life mark, uh, based on a true story that came

00:47:00.680 out this summer.

00:47:01.340 And, um, um, it's now, now available to everybody else everywhere else.

00:47:05.840 So super, I love the way you did it because if you, if you, if you adopt first and then,

00:47:11.900 you know, as you say that there's the last two babies may have been a surprise, but if

00:47:15.320 you adopt first, your adopted children never have to worry whether you really wanted to

00:47:20.020 adopt, you know, whether they were sort of an afterthought, whether they were like, forgive

00:47:23.180 the term, but like a charity case, that wasn't it at all.

00:47:25.540 Right.

00:47:25.900 When you bring them in first, the messaging is very clear.

00:47:28.100 Yeah, that, that's exactly right.

00:47:31.400 And, um, and, and, and that wasn't even on our minds, but you're right.

00:47:36.040 It's, it's like, Hey, we actually chose you.

00:47:38.100 We actually wanted you, uh, and we couldn't be more thrilled and we were praying for you.

00:47:45.380 And, um, I remember the time that my wife had this incredible conversation with my son

00:47:50.900 and, uh, other three kids in the car.

00:47:53.460 She was pregnant with Olivia and, uh, she was in the 15 passenger van and there's a four

00:47:58.060 year old in the back seat, a three year old, a two year old, and a one year old Chelsea's

00:48:02.060 pregnant.

00:48:02.660 And our four year old was getting excited about the fact that a new baby was coming and growing

00:48:07.620 in mommy's tummy.

00:48:08.600 And he said to my wife, so mom, whose tummy was I in?

00:48:13.800 And that's when she took a deep breath and she looked in the rear view mirror and she said,

00:48:17.500 well, uh, here it is.

00:48:19.940 Here's the big conversation.

00:48:20.880 And she, she explained to him, Jack, I don't know her name, but I feel like I know her because

00:48:27.300 she's a part of you and I love her and I'm so thankful to her because she loved you and

00:48:34.140 she carried you for nine months in her tummy, even though she knew that one day, uh, you

00:48:39.760 were meant to come to me and to dad.

00:48:43.380 And we were praying for a little boy, just like you.

00:48:45.960 And God sent an angel who knew that lady whose tummy you were in and she knew us and she connected

00:48:51.860 us together so that when you were born, you were delivered right into our arms where you

00:48:56.560 were supposed to be.

00:48:57.640 And we hope to meet her one day, but just know that she's a very special woman.

00:49:03.020 And Jack just looked up, backed up at her and he goes, Oh, and he looks back down and starts

00:49:08.340 coloring in his coloring book.

00:49:09.400 That was it.

00:49:10.140 There was no weirdness.

00:49:11.180 There was no like, you know, crisis of identity.

00:49:13.660 It was done.

00:49:14.800 And we moved on.

00:49:15.740 And, and they take their cues from you.

00:49:17.320 Of course they take their cues from you.

00:49:19.260 That's right.

00:49:19.660 Whether this is something that's right.

00:49:20.940 They pick up on your vibes.

00:49:22.320 All right.

00:49:22.640 Stand by.

00:49:23.100 Cause it's much, much more to get to.

00:49:24.020 I want to talk about kind of leaving Hollywood and what that's done for you and your family

00:49:27.260 right after this quick break with Kirk Cameron stays with us.

00:49:35.060 So Kirk, let's talk about leaving Hollywood, at least figuratively.

00:49:39.100 Um, I think at some point, relatively young, you realized this may not be the, uh, the town

00:49:45.600 center of a moral and well-led life.

00:49:48.400 And you must've had to wrestle with that given your coming to faith.

00:49:53.300 So talk about that a bit.

00:49:55.040 As I look back on those days, uh, it was, it was so exciting because not only was I on

00:50:00.540 this hit TV show called growing pains, but I had just met the love of my life.

00:50:05.020 We talked about Chelsea a little bit earlier and to tell you the truth, I couldn't wait.

00:50:09.100 I couldn't wait to get married.

00:50:10.780 I couldn't wait to go on a honeymoon.

00:50:13.000 I couldn't wait to honestly start the new chapter because I had recently come to faith

00:50:20.040 in God, which was an exciting thing for me.

00:50:22.220 In fact, I thought everybody would be excited about it.

00:50:24.020 You know, so many, so, so often you see teenage actors, uh, wind up, uh, uh, living a life

00:50:31.760 that ends up being a train wreck.

00:50:34.380 And we feel so bad for these kids who don't have any moral guidance.

00:50:38.560 They grow up and you know, they wind up with a gun in their hand or you, you see their

00:50:42.380 mugshot on some tabloid magazine, uh, in jail.

00:50:45.560 And here I'm like, no, I want to, I want to love God.

00:50:48.580 I used to be an atheist.

00:50:50.120 Now I'm believing that we're actually here on purpose for a purpose and that there's a

00:50:55.620 loving creator.

00:50:56.440 And that my job in life is to love other people.

00:50:59.760 Well, you'd think, at least I thought everybody'd be excited about that.

00:51:04.000 And then there were times where people were like, no, you're going to try to like pull

00:51:08.140 this celebrity muscle combined with some new religious, um, uh, you're, you know, passion

00:51:14.120 that you're going to try to force on other people and change the show.

00:51:16.840 And I'm like, no, really, I'm not, I just have, I, I just want to do my job, go home

00:51:22.580 and be with my girlfriend and, uh, you know, just plan my life.

00:51:26.820 But that ruffled so many feathers that, that it was uncomfortable working on growing pains

00:51:32.020 in the last couple of years.

00:51:33.140 And so I was really looking forward to moving on.

00:51:36.380 And when I got married to Chelsea, um, it wasn't like I wanted to leave Hollywood, but

00:51:42.320 growing pains was over.

00:51:43.560 And so we started another show.

00:51:45.420 Uh, it was a spinoff called Kirk that lasted about a year and a half on a network called

00:51:49.920 the WB network.

00:51:51.480 And as I continue to make choices that lined up with the stuff I was passionate about,

00:51:57.360 um, family valued things, things that would reflect, um, sort of the, the, the priorities

00:52:05.020 of truth, goodness, and beauty in the projects that I chose, uh, I, I found that new doors

00:52:12.120 were opening, other doors were closing.

00:52:14.280 And so, so maybe I didn't take Leonardo DiCaprio's career path or, uh, Brad Pitt's career path,

00:52:22.640 both of whom, by the way, were on growing pains in early episodes, but I took a path that

00:52:26.440 now has me married for 32 years, six children, parts of projects that I'm passionate about.

00:52:33.100 And I feel like I'm pushing back the darkness.

00:52:35.320 I'm making inroads for light and I'm talking to Megan Kelly on her podcast.

00:52:40.620 So this has not been a bad deal for me.

00:52:43.500 Right, right.

00:52:44.400 Not at all.

00:52:44.960 It's just a question of where you place your priorities and your energy and what you get

00:52:49.060 back.

00:52:49.900 I mean, I will say, uh, you don't have to say, but I will say, you know, Leonardo DiCaprio

00:52:53.240 is in the news every week for the fact that he won't date anybody over the age of 24.

00:52:56.440 He stretched it most recently with, I think one of the Hadid sisters, who's now 27.

00:53:00.220 That's as old as he'll go.

00:53:01.720 He's like our age.

00:53:02.780 He's slightly younger than we are.

00:53:04.180 It's weird.

00:53:05.000 And I would submit it's really not the life that God would want him to lead.

00:53:08.940 That's my judgment.

00:53:09.920 I'm in the news business.

00:53:11.000 So I pass judgment.

00:53:12.180 Um, look what you've done, you know, with your children and your beautiful wife and all

00:53:15.460 this.

00:53:15.700 And I heard you say, actually, my producers pulled this soundbite.

00:53:18.320 I'll play it because I thought this was a great point, um, that Hollywood is not, it's

00:53:23.240 not exactly secular.

00:53:24.560 It's not as secular as you might think.

00:53:26.180 And here's Kirk spin on that.

00:53:27.520 It's soundbite 18.

00:53:28.420 The truth is Hollywood is not secular.

00:53:32.220 It's as religious as anywhere else.

00:53:33.920 They just worship different gods.

00:53:35.860 So, uh, please do tell like Hollywood, you know, the, the most common deity is your is

00:53:41.620 self, right?

00:53:43.040 That I put myself up on a throne in Hollywood.

00:53:46.480 That is so true.

00:53:48.520 It's not that they don't worship.

00:53:49.840 It's just somebody else's on the throne.

00:53:52.180 That's it.

00:53:53.060 Yeah.

00:53:53.420 I think, I think that's still true.

00:53:55.240 I think it's always true.

00:53:56.180 I think it's a, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's inescapable, uh, in the human experience.

00:54:00.920 We're, we're gonna, we're, we're gonna put somebody on the throne.

00:54:04.580 Um, it's, it's either going to be, um, in a posture of, of humility and reverence saying

00:54:09.500 thank you for life and breath and friends and family and health and everything else.

00:54:13.420 Or, uh, it's going to be the state, it's going to be the government, and we're going

00:54:16.540 to have a supreme leader like you might have in North Korea or.

00:54:21.260 Um, you know, Germany or whatever, what pick, pick, pick your scary, uh, supreme dictator,

00:54:28.080 or, uh, it might be a group of people, or it may be yourself.

00:54:32.060 And the me monster is often the most dangerous because you knew exalt yourself.

00:54:38.160 Um, you know, everything else becomes second in the world sort of exists to serve you and

00:54:43.840 your happiness.

00:54:44.540 And I've found, uh, and my wife says this to our kids all the time, kids, um, your focus

00:54:50.860 determines your, your, the outcome, me, misery, others, joy.

00:54:59.380 Hmm.

00:55:00.500 Wow.

00:55:00.940 Well said.

00:55:01.660 It's so true as well.

00:55:02.840 As long as, if you're feeling blue and you're writing your gratitude journal, you write down

00:55:05.840 three things you're grateful for, you go out and you volunteer and you help somebody else.

00:55:08.480 That's an instant pick me up in more than a drug, more than a therapy session, more than

00:55:13.640 anything.

00:55:15.180 Yeah, but you're right.

00:55:17.700 And the, the older that I get, um, I learned things that I was wrong about things before.

00:55:24.380 And, um, I learned that that is absolutely true.

00:55:28.320 So you serve other people rather than looking for everyone to serve you and, uh, start your

00:55:34.360 day out, uh, with a great big bowl of gratitude for breakfast and you're on the right road.

00:55:42.960 And regardless of your circumstances, you can have peace of mind.

00:55:47.100 You can have a joyful heart.

00:55:49.960 And these are the kinds of things that I want to live by and I want to teach my kids.

00:55:53.760 So, uh, I got to live by example and put the stuff into practice, not just, not just talk

00:55:58.260 the talk, but I've got to, I've got to walk the walk too.

00:56:00.560 You got to walk the walk.

00:56:01.340 So let me ask you about Leonardo DiCaprio and, um, Brad Pitt being on Growing Pains.

00:56:05.960 Was there any, like, was there a hint of greatness there?

00:56:08.580 Did you see, you know, were you like, oh yeah, really?

00:56:11.660 Oh, totally.

00:56:12.520 Oh yeah.

00:56:12.940 You could see it.

00:56:13.520 We knew.

00:56:14.500 And you know, Hollywood is, it's kind of this small world.

00:56:17.560 Uh, there's a, there's a million actors.

00:56:18.780 I think there's, it's, it's hard to work in Hollywood, uh, just because there's so many.

00:56:22.800 And I think that, I think the statistic is something like 90% of all, uh, SAG actors

00:56:28.300 on any given day are unemployed, uh, looking for, looking for work.

00:56:32.620 And so, uh, I don't know all the reasons for that, but certainly the ones who are working,

00:56:37.620 um, you know, you, the, the good ones stand out.

00:56:41.060 And so Leonardo DiCaprio was, uh, was, was a bright shining star on our set at 14 years

00:56:47.600 old.

00:56:47.820 He was the cute little kid who we brought in to sort of, um, bring new life to the storyline.

00:56:52.800 Uh, all the little kids on growing pains, Mike, Ben and Carol were now grown up.

00:56:57.080 I was what, I don't know, maybe 19 years old, 20 years old.

00:57:00.760 And, and so I couldn't be sneaking out of the house anymore as the rascally teenager.

00:57:05.760 And so they brought in a new one and it was Leonardo DiCaprio who lived in the janitor's

00:57:10.400 room at Dewey high school.

00:57:12.620 And he was just awesome.

00:57:14.840 I mean, he, he just had a maturity about him.

00:57:16.700 He had an intrigue about him and he had a natural, authentic quality about his acting

00:57:21.420 that was just different and unique.

00:57:24.620 And we all knew that he was going to go places.

00:57:26.440 And then he did, um, who's, uh, basketball diaries and yeah, Gilbert Grape.

00:57:33.120 And when he did those and he's working with De Niro and these, these other amazing actors,

00:57:36.560 we thought, wow, Leo is, is going places.

00:57:39.520 This is really cool to watch.

00:57:40.860 So we were cheering him on way back on the set of growing page.

00:57:44.240 Now, much closer to home, you are, you have a star in your family, your family of origin.

00:57:49.200 Candace Cameron Burr is your sister and she's also a huge star.

00:57:53.940 She, my, my crack producer, Kelly tells me that she actually starred in like the most

00:57:58.100 successful, uh, movie on Hallmark Christmas movie ever Christmas under wraps under Hallmark's

00:58:04.900 most successful Christmas game.

00:58:05.940 So that's impressive.

00:58:06.600 And now she's jumped ship and she's gone over, um, to a new competitive, uh, sort of,

00:58:12.400 you know, sort of the non woke answer to the Hallmark channel.

00:58:16.940 Um, and I think this is actually an interesting experiment that they're doing over there because

00:58:20.980 it's, um, the guy, Bill Abbott, who used to run Hallmark is now running great American

00:58:24.520 family network, which is run by a friend of mine, Tom Hicks.

00:58:27.440 Uh, well, in part, he's got an ownership interest and their answer.

00:58:30.260 Cause Hallmark started getting like a kind of look, you could say woke, you could just say

00:58:34.080 more progressive, but they were not sticking to sort of the more, more traditional messages.

00:58:38.500 And Bill Abbott got in trouble over speaking out over it.

00:58:41.080 He's now running this other network and Candace, Candace is the chief content officer for the

00:58:45.300 other one.

00:58:45.640 And she got in trouble recently.

00:58:47.340 She gave an interview to the wall street journal.

00:58:49.640 And of course they asked her if she expects her new channel to feature same sex couples as

00:58:54.340 leads and holiday movies.

00:58:56.180 She said, no quote.

00:58:57.300 I think the great American family will keep traditional marriage at the core.

00:59:00.760 Well, you're not allowed to say that as she found out.

00:59:05.940 And there was all this blowback on her with people like one tree Hill actress, Hillary Burton

00:59:10.740 Morgan calling her a bigot.

00:59:12.420 I mean, it was just, it was ugly.

00:59:13.860 So what do you make of the blowback that Candace got on that?

00:59:16.820 Do you think it was fair?

00:59:17.600 Well, I've known Candace my whole life and, um, there's, it, it, it was sort of amazing

00:59:26.560 to me because like, there's, there's nothing to talk about here.

00:59:29.120 Candace is, is a person who's built an entire career on being the kindest, the sweetest, the

00:59:34.620 most compassionate, the most, uh, loving toward all people, uh, regardless of their, their color,

00:59:40.440 their creed, their religion, their beliefs, and, and all of that.

00:59:43.080 And people know that.

00:59:44.180 So the fact that she wants to, uh, be working with a group of people that highlights things

00:59:48.680 that she loves and celebrates and believes in, um, I mean, doesn't everybody do that?

00:59:54.200 I mean, I mean, aren't there other people with other worldviews and beliefs that are really

00:59:58.540 into their thing that they want to highlight and make their projects around those values?

01:00:05.000 Yes, absolutely.

01:00:06.360 And Candace's values, um, uh, reflect the values of millions and millions of people, uh, across

01:00:12.180 the country and around the world.

01:00:13.600 That's why they love her so much.

01:00:14.720 I mean, I, I go places and, uh, she's referred to as just as the Hallmark movie queen.

01:00:19.680 Uh, people love her movie just because they make her, they make them feel good.

01:00:23.260 You know, they get on their, their Hallmark sweater to sit down and watch their Hallmark

01:00:27.000 movie.

01:00:27.920 Um, that's starring my sister Candace and, uh, that people would make some sort of a controversy

01:00:34.660 over her wanting to celebrate and highlight movies and storylines that she really believes

01:00:40.220 in is, um, yeah, that's, that's, that's crazy to me.

01:00:47.100 I don't think they're mad at the comment.

01:00:48.240 They're mad at the belief.

01:00:49.340 And this is something that always mystifies me.

01:00:50.980 You know, I have a lot of friends who are in gay and lesbian marriages that I support,

01:00:55.860 but I also understand the objection by people who are deeply Christian, deep, deep, deeply

01:01:01.500 faithful to anything other than traditional marriage.

01:01:04.280 And, and honestly, like most of the thing about like Dave Rubin, he's a friend of mine.

01:01:08.420 And he's in a gay marriage, he, he wouldn't object to, he would understand Candace.

01:01:12.020 He would under, I I'm, I'm going out on a limb and taking a risk for how he feels, but

01:01:15.840 he'd say, that's fine.

01:01:17.120 You know, my marriage to my husband can be featured on Hallmark or someplace else.

01:01:20.740 Not every channel needs to celebrate my choice.

01:01:23.240 And I understand there's room in this country for people who have their own beliefs, but

01:01:26.680 now, you know, what months among some sex it's, you're no longer allowed to have your

01:01:31.280 belief because your belief offends me.

01:01:32.960 Yeah, that's right.

01:01:36.940 That's one of the things I love about our country, right?

01:01:38.700 I mean, when we really go back to the very, to the very root of all of this, we have enough

01:01:43.340 room within our country, as you just said, Megan, for different communities to have a

01:01:49.520 different set of beliefs and different states.

01:01:51.640 And we, we, we, we have so much diversity that, that exists within this country that we,

01:01:58.640 we have room for all of this.

01:02:01.060 And so if you go to a place that is 100% dogmatic in their religious view or in their, you know,

01:02:11.680 a dictatorship or something like that, where you don't have freedom of speech, you don't

01:02:14.700 have freedom of religion, freedom of expression, financial freedom, political freedom, religious

01:02:20.020 freedom.

01:02:21.100 You don't even have these conversations because it's, you know, stuff's just not allowed at

01:02:25.500 all, but here in America, uh, the fact that you can even have, have a press that makes

01:02:31.000 comments like this and create stories, uh, that don't make sense coming from, uh, someone

01:02:39.140 like my sister, Candace, uh, just shows that we live in a very special place with lots and

01:02:44.040 lots of freedom and people need to, I think, have a lot more respect for that and understand

01:02:48.820 the, the, the precious and rare gift we have here to be able to live in different ways

01:02:53.940 and speak our mind.

01:02:55.360 Right.

01:02:55.460 It'd be one thing if great American family channel was the only channel on earth.

01:02:59.600 And so if it's not represented on that channel, no one's ever going to see what a gay marriage

01:03:02.980 looks like or what, you know, whether you can see a happy union like that, there's plenty

01:03:06.420 of options out there.

01:03:07.240 It's all over.

01:03:07.980 Like it's not, we are not living in 1950 anymore.

01:03:10.500 It's 2022 and gay marriage is very well represented and celebrated on most channels now.

01:03:16.580 So in any event, um, it reminded me of something that with you, because one of the secrets

01:03:20.940 to your marriage is not only do you absolutely love and revere it one another, but you are

01:03:25.580 not one of those actors who's running around doing the hot, steamy sex scenes with actresses

01:03:32.000 who aren't named Chelsea.

01:03:33.860 Like you, you got to sing where you, you will only kiss your wife even on the air.

01:03:40.600 Like you're not making out with other actresses.

01:03:42.520 If a, if a scene calls for it, is that, is that true?

01:03:44.720 Uh, yeah, that is true.

01:03:48.000 Um, I, unfortunately, well, you know, I, I, I, I do too.

01:03:53.520 And I think my wife appreciates it too.

01:03:56.400 Here's an example.

01:03:57.520 Um, here's, here's an example.

01:03:59.800 You know, I, I, um, worked on a movie called fireproof and fireproof is a movie all about

01:04:04.740 marriage.

01:04:05.500 And it's about the story of a firefighter who's doing great at his job.

01:04:09.680 And the guy's a guy's a rock star.

01:04:11.180 He can put out burning buildings, but his marriage is, uh, going up in flames at home

01:04:16.980 and, and he can't fix it.

01:04:19.080 And, uh, his dad gives him this book called the love dare.

01:04:22.440 And it's a 40 day challenge, uh, to see if he's man enough to love his wife unconditionally,

01:04:27.280 regardless of her response for 40 days.

01:04:30.680 And it gives him a thing to do every day and it, it wrecks him.

01:04:34.140 He can't do it.

01:04:34.780 And he finally recognizes that the problem isn't his wife.

01:04:37.000 It's him.

01:04:37.400 It's, it's his own selfishness.

01:04:38.760 And then he, he gets right with his wife and, uh, he reconciles with her in the fire

01:04:45.180 station.

01:04:45.580 It's a beautiful romantic scene where, where they run toward each other in slow motion.

01:04:49.000 And, and she says, I want to grow old with you.

01:04:51.300 Is it too late?

01:04:51.920 And they have this, this beautiful kiss.

01:04:54.500 Well, I, I, I said, you know what, this is something that I've stood at an altar and

01:05:01.220 said that I would only do with my wife and, uh, call it make believe or not.

01:05:05.720 Um, I know how this would make me feel if I saw my wife doing this.

01:05:09.880 And so we, we, we, we did things, flew my wife out.

01:05:13.360 We, she'd put on a wig that matched the actress's hair in the, in the movie.

01:05:17.360 And she wore that dress.

01:05:19.340 We shot the scene in a silhouette.

01:05:20.480 So you couldn't tell, but when I'm kissing my wife in the movie, I'm actually kissing

01:05:24.000 my wife, Chelsea on screen, not the actress who played my wife.

01:05:27.460 And some people actually thought that was, um, such an inconvenience to the production

01:05:32.660 and an offense to them personally, that, uh, that sort of, I wasn't professional enough

01:05:38.780 to just go with the flow and the status quo.

01:05:42.400 Uh, and they really gave me a hard time.

01:05:44.300 And I thought, you know, I've got to choose my priorities here.

01:05:49.060 I'm not nearly as concerned about what the industry thinks or what these individuals think.

01:05:53.860 Uh, I'm much more concerned about what my wife thinks because I want my marriage to last

01:06:00.120 and be solid.

01:06:01.340 And I've got six kids.

01:06:03.120 We've got a lot of skin in the game and I don't want to do anything that's going to

01:06:06.160 potentially injure my marriage.

01:06:07.940 In fact, uh, I want to honor it.

01:06:10.200 So that's just been a conviction of mine and nobody else has to copy that, but it's one that,

01:06:15.920 um, is important to me.

01:06:17.580 I, I love the whole thing and I, I want to talk about it more.

01:06:20.440 Let me play the clip.

01:06:21.540 We actually have it, um, from this movie.

01:06:23.860 Where you'll, they'll see the kiss, the people on who watch it on YouTube.

01:06:27.200 Your producers are amazing.

01:06:28.540 Oh my gosh.

01:06:29.140 Good old Kelly.

01:06:30.020 I've got Canadian Debbie, Canadian Kelly.

01:06:32.300 Uh, and Kelly's your big fan.

01:06:33.600 And she, she queued this up.

01:06:34.860 It's SOT 19.

01:06:35.400 And I want what happened to you to happen to me.

01:06:45.880 It can.

01:06:49.260 Is it too late to ask you to grow old with me?

01:06:54.020 So come back to the, there it is.

01:07:03.320 There's the kiss right there.

01:07:05.120 You can't tell.

01:07:06.040 You can't tell it's not the actress.

01:07:09.000 It's well done.

01:07:09.960 Oh, that's sweet.

01:07:14.180 My other producer, Canadian Debbie just said in my ear, I bet Jennifer Aniston wishes Brad

01:07:18.540 Pitt had the same rule for when they were married.

01:07:21.040 Yeah.

01:07:23.160 Yeah.

01:07:23.700 You know, it's right.

01:07:24.880 I mean, I mean, it's, it's, it's amazing, um, that there are things that we really ought

01:07:32.600 to consider sacred in the world, I think.

01:07:35.940 And, and so many things is like, we just don't treat them that way.

01:07:40.840 And I, I think we regret it later.

01:07:43.040 Um, and, and I, don't you think I can look back on my life and say, yeah, that's true.

01:07:47.260 In the same way, like I've, I've interviewed felons, you know, people who serve time for

01:07:51.180 serious crimes.

01:07:52.200 And I've had this conversation a few times where if you crossing the first ethical line

01:07:57.220 is actually the biggest deal.

01:07:58.900 It's, it's a bigger deal than the bigger ethical lines you cross down the line, right?

01:08:04.340 Because there's sort of a before and after moment.

01:08:05.940 Like I, I will do this or I won't do this.

01:08:08.220 And I understand kissing for a movie role is acting, but let's be honest.

01:08:13.140 I'm sure in a lot of those circumstances, there is a spark.

01:08:16.420 You're, you're only human.

01:08:17.680 I realize there's people on the set and the whole bit, but come on.

01:08:20.060 And I'm referencing Brad Pitt things because that he, you know, supposedly fell in love

01:08:23.780 with Angelina while they were making that movie, Mr. and Mrs. Smith together, which

01:08:26.880 is very hot and heavy.

01:08:27.900 So I, I too would not want to see my husband kissing another woman, even if it were for show.

01:08:33.660 And I too would feel like it was crossing a line that I'm sure he would not want me to

01:08:38.360 cross and would probably try if I were an actress to avoid roles that required that of

01:08:42.060 me.

01:08:43.240 Yeah.

01:08:43.900 And I, I, it's important to me also to point out that, um, I, I love what you're saying

01:08:49.460 and I, I, I, um, I, I respect you for feeling that way.

01:08:54.580 Um, and at the same time, I want people to know that like, you know, listen carefully,

01:08:59.020 uh, neither me or Megan are saying that like, this is a moral standard that we're trying

01:09:03.280 to impose on you and everybody else.

01:09:04.820 And, um, no, this is something that I, that I want to do.

01:09:08.860 That's important to me and to my wife.

01:09:10.240 And that has served us well.

01:09:11.980 And, um, I want to keep making decisions like that.

01:09:15.940 You know what it reminds me of, um, Mike Pence and all the blowback he got when he said he

01:09:19.460 wouldn't have a meeting alone with a woman, you know, not his wife.

01:09:22.400 Yeah.

01:09:22.840 And I understood, trust me as a, as a woman of the 21st century, I get what people were

01:09:27.380 like, Oh my God, what's he saying?

01:09:29.000 He can't control himself or women are gonna be throwing themselves at him.

01:09:31.400 Like grow up.

01:09:32.020 This is, you know, women are everywhere in modern day, uh, America in the business world,

01:09:36.840 but he's not totally wrong.

01:09:40.320 Having grown up in the legal industry and then the news industry, they can be incestuous

01:09:45.660 businesses and you add alcohol to the mix.

01:09:48.460 And before you know it, you're down the road.

01:09:50.440 You wish you weren't down.

01:09:51.380 It's like, instead of just completely beating the guy up, why didn't more people pause and

01:09:55.020 say, maybe there's like a pearl of wisdom there to be gleaned for people.

01:09:59.200 Yeah.

01:10:00.040 Yeah.

01:10:00.440 You know, somebody put it to me this, this way, uh, one time that it, you know, it's,

01:10:04.020 it's like, um, one of the places I love to go is Yosemite and there's a place called

01:10:08.500 Tuolumne Meadows and there's a very windy, dangerous road that leads you there here in

01:10:13.260 the Sierra Nevada is out here on the West coast.

01:10:15.320 And, uh, there's maybe a 2000 foot cliff that you go over.

01:10:18.360 If you, if you get too close to the edge of that road, I'm not going 50 miles an hour

01:10:22.600 up against the guardrails, uh, creating sparks on that thing, just cause I think it's fun.

01:10:27.100 I'm going to hug the other side of the road because the reward at the top is much, much

01:10:31.940 greater than the thrill of riding the guardrails.

01:10:35.100 And I don't want to take that kind of a risk.

01:10:37.240 And I feel that way in my marriage.

01:10:38.500 I feel that way, uh, also in, in, in my faith and with my children, there's way too much at

01:10:43.760 stake here.

01:10:44.180 And the reward is too great, uh, when I finish well, and I don't want to lose that.

01:10:49.880 I think, uh, to, to one of your other points, Megan, this was, um, um, cool that, that, that

01:10:55.860 you brought this up.

01:10:57.000 Uh, I think my faith in God also plays a great role in the ability to make decisions like that,

01:11:03.880 that might cost me a bit in my career.

01:11:07.380 Like for instance, um, one of the concerns was, wow, man, Kirk, if, if you don't, if you

01:11:12.620 don't cross some of these moral, uh, lines that you've drawn for yourself, uh, these ethical

01:11:18.120 boundaries that, uh, you know, they're not universal.

01:11:20.400 You're, you're sort of making this up.

01:11:22.580 Uh, you may lose a job, you may burn a bridge, and this may affect your career and your income.

01:11:30.460 Uh, at the end of the day, that's true.

01:11:34.840 I'm sure that there's roles that I've lost because, oh, Kirk has content issues or Kirk's

01:11:38.940 got some moral boundaries and that's ridiculous.

01:11:41.320 Um, but my faith is not in Hollywood's ability to make me happy and successful because of their

01:11:50.380 approval of me.

01:11:51.920 Therefore, I got to do what they say.

01:11:53.380 My faith is in a God who put me here for a reason that is much bigger than Hollywood

01:12:00.720 and that he will take care of my family and my reputation is what's important to me.

01:12:08.980 I want to, I'm, I'm, I'm here on the stage of the world for a short period of time.

01:12:12.400 My job is to play my role well.

01:12:14.840 And then I trust the one who's watching over me.

01:12:19.800 I hear you.

01:12:20.820 I, it definitely hurt you in your book deal because I, I saw the story on Fox.

01:12:25.520 I love this story.

01:12:26.460 Forgive me.

01:12:26.880 I love as a news person, I love it because the, you have a book out, uh, it's a children's

01:12:31.260 book and it's called as you grow and it celebrates faith, family, and biblical wisdom.

01:12:35.420 Well, Fox news has the report out that over 50 public libraries, this is spectacular, have

01:12:41.540 either outright rejected you or not responded to requests on your behalf for you, Kirk Cameron,

01:12:46.380 a big star to show up and do a story hour on your book about faith, family, and biblical

01:12:51.840 wisdom.

01:12:52.300 Uh, the same libraries that are actively offering drag queen story hours or similar programs

01:12:58.700 for children and young people.

01:13:00.480 Some of these library programs, according to Fox, uh, promote gender fluidity, inclusion,

01:13:04.500 and diversity.

01:13:04.980 Others offer name change clinics for older teens and adults who want to alter their paperwork

01:13:11.380 for gender identity reasons.

01:13:13.000 They went down and called a bunch of these libraries.

01:13:14.700 Fox news digital did Providence, Rhode Island.

01:13:16.820 No, we're passing.

01:13:17.760 We're very queer friendly library.

01:13:19.560 We don't want him.

01:13:20.400 Another one, Roche and Bo public library.

01:13:22.240 They promote a regular offering for young people called queer umbrella.

01:13:26.080 They didn't want you city Heights, uh, Weingart branch library in San Diego.

01:13:29.820 No, we host LGBTQ 40 letters events.

01:13:34.560 We don't want Kirk Cameron and on down the list.

01:13:36.520 And then I, we go deeper into your book.

01:13:38.480 The books are part of a series.

01:13:40.420 It teaches on things like love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness,

01:13:48.360 and self-control.

01:13:49.320 I can see why they didn't want this.

01:13:51.100 What, what were you thinking?

01:13:52.280 Writing books like that.

01:13:53.620 Crazy.

01:13:53.900 I mean, it's, it's not like children, uh, in public schools today are struggling with

01:13:59.980 mental illness, drug overdoses, cyber bullying, and school shootings, and could use a book

01:14:05.260 on kindness, goodness, gentleness, and self-control.

01:14:08.500 What was I thinking?

01:14:09.840 Right, right.

01:14:10.960 They're not going to want that.

01:14:12.000 Why would they want to hear a story hour about that?

01:14:13.780 We need to see somebody guy, some guy gyrating in front of our four-year-olds.

01:14:16.580 You know, what, what's, what's, uh, what's interesting about this is that it's highlighting

01:14:22.580 the, the, the moral war that's going on here and, and how, who could be opposed to

01:14:28.540 values like this?

01:14:29.660 I don't think it is, uh, a misalignment of, um, of messaging per se, but I think that the

01:14:37.940 messaging is misleading from some of these libraries and groups where, where tolerance

01:14:43.000 is actually a cloak for totalitarianism.

01:14:46.460 If we don't like your idea, you're out.

01:14:49.200 We don't have room for you.

01:14:51.160 Your messaging is not welcome here.

01:14:54.000 Um, and coexisting, uh, feels to me to be more like, um, a cloak for conquest of ideologies

01:15:06.000 and worldviews.

01:15:07.000 And all I'm asking for is to be able to use the same space that other people have used

01:15:12.840 in the same way to teach children wisdom through their seasons of their life.

01:15:18.020 As they go through difficult times, uh, happy times, sad times, challenging times, and learn

01:15:23.020 to develop patience and kindness and perseverance so that they can flourish as truly radical.

01:15:30.240 Well, as I said, that's just radical stuff, but here's the good news.

01:15:34.220 The good news, Megan, is that parents and grandparents and librarians are rising up, speaking

01:15:39.980 up, they're calling, they want the book because they want to host their own story hour in their

01:15:44.340 own public libraries.

01:15:46.400 And, uh, we've taken it to the next step.

01:15:48.740 Actually, I've written letters to some of these libraries that you mentioned, uh, telling

01:15:53.940 them that I hope that this is a misunderstanding.

01:15:55.500 I sent them a free copy of the book to review, to give to their patrons, uh, whatever, and

01:16:00.340 that I'd like to come in and actually read the book and we'll pay the fees and go through

01:16:05.140 the, the, the, the regulations.

01:16:07.140 And that if they don't change their mind and want to continue to exclude certain viewpoints

01:16:12.260 that I'm prepared to assert my constitutional rights in court.

01:16:16.000 And, uh, we're looking forward to being able to go to those libraries soon.

01:16:20.360 Oh, wow.

01:16:20.740 That'll be a fun, a fun showdown for the librarians too.

01:16:23.740 So I'll, I will be covering that as it unfolds.

01:16:26.500 Now you mentioned something a couple of times, uh, totalitarianism, the absence of faith leading

01:16:31.140 to the worship of other false gods.

01:16:33.640 And this brings me to COVID and what's happened to our country, because I have to tell you

01:16:38.620 deeply admired this.

01:16:40.100 I was very hardcore and remain hardcore anti-mask mandate.

01:16:44.780 I'm also anti-mask for myself and people I love.

01:16:47.580 Um, but I'm really anti-mask mandates.

01:16:50.240 I really think it's such an intrusive thing.

01:16:52.060 I'm anti-vaccine mandates too.

01:16:53.740 So you took a stand early on in the pandemic.

01:16:56.540 It was, I think, December of 2020 and did something radical.

01:16:59.300 You hosted a gathering.

01:17:00.620 Oh, no masks.

01:17:02.840 Oh, you are radical.

01:17:04.740 And we have a clip of the crazy helicopter news coverage of your event.

01:17:12.320 It's just a good reminder too of how insane people were over this issue and really kind

01:17:16.740 of remain, especially in California.

01:17:17.880 But here's a walk down memory lane for you.

01:17:19.760 It looks like actor Kirk Cameron may be hosting another large Christmas gathering.

01:17:25.960 Let's go to Air 7 HD and Chris Christie for the details.

01:17:28.500 Chris?

01:17:29.380 Yeah, Colleen, that's what we're hearing.

01:17:31.300 He has announced that he is, uh, well, he's told people to plan on this event.

01:17:36.360 It's a caroling event outside of the Oaks Mall.

01:17:38.980 We're looking at about 75 to 100 carolers, not one of them wearing a mask, by the way.

01:17:45.740 There are children, there are senior citizens and everything in between here.

01:17:49.600 We are, again, outside the mall, but directly next to a COVID testing site.

01:17:54.700 So clearly a crusade of a COVID denialist outside the whole thing, by the way, outside, you know,

01:18:02.920 Megan, this, this was, this was one of the most joyful things that people had done in

01:18:07.700 months in our community, because, you know, here in the communist state of California,

01:18:13.040 under our governor, uh, Gavin Newsom, we were essentially under house arrest for so long.

01:18:18.500 We were stuck, not just for the initial 14, 15 days, but then the governor says, we're

01:18:23.020 in lockdown.

01:18:23.540 You can't go to school.

01:18:25.060 You can't go to your business.

01:18:26.300 You can't go to the store.

01:18:27.800 You can't go to church.

01:18:29.620 And people were just going crazy.

01:18:31.780 The mental health issues, the anxiety, the depression, the suicide.

01:18:35.460 And all people wanted to do was to find somebody who said, look, the fear virus is worse than

01:18:42.020 the COVID virus.

01:18:43.180 How about you join me outside and let's sing Hark the Herald Angels Sing at Christmas time?

01:18:48.500 And by the way, you don't have to come if you don't want to.

01:18:51.160 Nobody's forcing you.

01:18:52.020 It's voluntary.

01:18:53.000 And we're outside in the fresh air.

01:18:55.220 Come get some fresh air if you want to.

01:18:56.820 If you're not afraid, join me and let's sing a little town of Bethlehem and joy to the world.

01:19:01.420 And you'd have thought that we were burning down the mall.

01:19:07.300 Yes.

01:19:07.980 And helicopter coverage.

01:19:10.280 Actually, actually, remember that was during the times of some of the season of riots.

01:19:15.200 And maybe if we had actually thrown chairs through windows and like lit things on fire,

01:19:18.820 they wouldn't have they wouldn't have covered it so much.

01:19:21.160 Well, in the medical community, you couldn't get COVID.

01:19:23.440 If you were riding, you couldn't get COVID.

01:19:25.060 So, yeah, if you'd gotten just a little bit more violent, you would have been fine.

01:19:29.100 Yeah.

01:19:29.340 So, gosh, I just I just think that critical thinking is in short supply these days.

01:19:36.480 Common sense is not so common.

01:19:38.700 And with all of the censorship that has gone on, particularly through all of the pandemic

01:19:43.740 and all of that, and now we're seeing all this stuff with the election and Elon Musk

01:19:47.800 and Twitter and all these things, all of us start to go like, you know, people are finally

01:19:51.380 waking up going, really, really?

01:19:52.840 I didn't think I mean, you know, how could this be bad?

01:19:55.360 The governor is telling me to do this.

01:19:56.780 It must be good for us.

01:19:58.440 Well, all we have to do is read history a little bit.

01:20:01.120 And we understand that government is it's got its lane.

01:20:05.620 But once it gets out of its lane, it becomes very dangerous.

01:20:08.200 And the government is not here to be in charge of your health care or mine or the education

01:20:13.620 of our children and most other things.

01:20:17.020 And that's why it's important to read the Constitution, to understand the difference

01:20:21.420 between sphere sovereignties.

01:20:24.880 You have family.

01:20:25.700 You have church.

01:20:27.040 You have government.

01:20:28.780 And there are walls of separation that are very important between them so that you don't

01:20:33.040 have a government like the pilgrims had in England, where your king becomes the head

01:20:38.280 of your church.

01:20:39.200 And he determines everything you do from cradle to the grave.

01:20:43.860 That's what the uniqueness of America is.

01:20:47.100 We turn the world upside down and put the power and authority into the hands of the people

01:20:51.720 to govern themselves rather than to be beaten into submission by a dictator, a king or a

01:20:58.100 czar.

01:20:58.360 And we lose those liberties all too quickly if we don't stand up and fight for them.

01:21:03.700 The series for the book, again, is called As You Grow.

01:21:07.200 You can get it despite the objections of your possible local librarian.

01:21:10.880 And the podcast is American Campfire Revival.

01:21:13.440 It's a great name.

01:21:14.080 Every episode's come out Tuesday and Thursday.

01:21:16.320 Talks about faith, history, the Bible.

01:21:18.320 Answers questions like, what made America so special?

01:21:21.080 And listening to Kirk Cameron, you can hear not only does he understand what the proper

01:21:24.900 answers are, but he's part of it.

01:21:27.040 You are part of what has made my America so special, Kirk Cameron.

01:21:30.020 It's really, it's thrilling to meet you.

01:21:31.460 Thank you so much for being here.

01:21:33.480 Hey, Megan.

01:21:33.920 Thank you.

01:21:34.520 Great to be talking with you.

01:21:35.620 Thanks for all the great work that you do.

01:21:37.320 And Merry Christmas.

01:21:39.300 Yeah.

01:21:39.600 Merry Christmas to you and yours as well.

01:21:41.260 All the best.

01:21:42.940 Okay, that was fun.

01:21:44.200 I'm happy that Dr. Jay Bhattacharya is going to be back on.

01:21:46.640 He's going to talk about the news this week about the lunatics at Twitter suppressing

The Megyn Kelly Show - December 15, 2022

Harry and Meghan's Complaining, and Putting Faith and Family First, with Kirk Cameron and Maureen Callahan ｜ Ep. 454

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript