The Megyn Kelly Show - August 06, 2026


Horrifying Perez Hilton Video, and Disturbing Ariana Grande Appearance, with Glenn Greenwald, Plus Surrogate Fights to Protect Baby | Ep. 1375


Episode Stats


Length

2 hours and 1 minute

Words per minute

174.59

Word count

21,258

Sentence count

1,144

Harmful content

Misogyny

50

sentences flagged

Toxicity

45

sentences flagged

Hate speech

44

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.660 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.
00:00:12.360 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.
00:00:15.320 Oh, we've got a lot to get to today. This is going to be a good show.
00:00:17.920 But before we get to the news, I want to tell you about the latest episode
00:00:20.820 that we are releasing right now on our MK Members Only section,
00:00:25.040 which you can join on our YouTube channel.
00:00:28.240 YouTube.com slash Megan Kelly.
00:00:30.260 If you're on your computer,
00:00:31.740 I contacted Steve Krakauer this morning.
00:00:33.980 He's our executive producer.
00:00:35.340 And I was like, Steve,
00:00:36.240 I can't figure out how to join this.
00:00:38.040 How are our viewers going to figure out how to join this?
00:00:40.280 So the problem is I was on my phone.
00:00:43.440 If you're on your phone,
00:00:45.620 you got to go through the YouTube app
00:00:47.680 and type in Megan Kelly.
00:00:50.200 That'll take you to our channel.
00:00:51.500 And then you look for that join button,
00:00:53.800 which is right next to the subscribe button.
00:00:56.200 If you're on your computer,
00:00:57.900 you can just type in youtube.com slash Megan Kelly and you'll see the join button when you
00:01:02.500 get there. Okay. So it's a little bit different instructions depending on whether you're on your
00:01:05.640 phone or whether you're on your computer, but you got to join because we have great,
00:01:09.420 great content going out there and only, only for the members. So giving you something a little
00:01:16.160 extra and we're going to be doing a lot of extra over there, uh, for our most loyal audience
00:01:21.160 members. We have now episode two of our documentary about our show, our audience,
00:01:29.080 and our tour. And this documentary episode is called Fight for Female. In it, we bring you
00:01:35.800 the full story of the gender madness in America, including our journey, our journey on the topic,
00:01:43.520 I think yours and mine, because we've been through this together for six years now.
00:01:50.140 In this particular video, we start back in my time at Fox and how, to be honest, I just had it dead wrong, including with Dr. Keith Abloh.
00:02:00.340 Here's a trailer.
00:02:02.240 Dr. Abloh, I've read your piece.
00:02:04.500 Do you really believe that children are going to turn transgender? 0.99
00:02:09.120 Dr. Abloh said it would not be a good idea for Chaz Bono to be on this show.
00:02:13.180 It could trigger some elements of a social contagion, and I mocked him.
00:02:18.640 We really don't know how these behaviors influence people when they are mainstreamed and celebrated.
00:02:25.700 I wish I had listened to him. I wish we all had listened to him.
00:02:29.620 It just blew up.
00:02:31.720 Dysphoria diagnoses increased by 1,500%.
00:02:35.800 Hi.
00:02:36.820 It turned around, and it was everywhere. 1.00
00:02:38.860 Tuck-friendly swimsuits that allows trans people to conceal their private parts. 1.00
00:02:43.680 You've referred to people with a capacity for pregnancy. 1.00
00:02:47.240 Would that be women?
00:02:48.460 Your line of questioning is transphobic.
00:02:51.480 Oh my God, this is not what I thought it was.
00:02:54.500 And then we just opened the floodgates to learning more, more, more, more, more. 0.95
00:02:59.720 Men will always swim 8 to 12 percent faster than women.
00:03:02.940 People are being harmed, and a lot of people can't speak about it.
00:03:06.300 How old were you when you got your double mastectomy?
00:03:09.880 I was 15.
00:03:10.800 It happened just after my sophomore year ended.
00:03:13.080 I still get emotional.
00:03:14.760 I see the harm.
00:03:16.040 I see so much of the harm.
00:03:17.540 The harm is ubiquitous.
00:03:19.180 Is there any chance of you to defend that ball?
00:03:21.060 No, I seriously had no time. 1.00
00:03:23.260 The girls competing, they are not okay with this. 1.00
00:03:26.120 That stuff does real damage.
00:03:27.820 You had to change in a locker room with him.
00:03:29.360 The first time that we became aware,
00:03:32.020 we would be undressing next to this 6'4", 22-year-old man,
00:03:36.060 fully intact was when we were inches away fully exposing themselves. Oh my gosh. Their inclusion
00:03:41.800 means men get to punch women in the face for entertainment. We can see it's a man. Stop 0.99
00:03:48.540 gaslighting us. It is beyond time to stand up to the trans lobby. That means to deprive women 0.97
00:03:54.220 of their spaces and rights. This is not an issue that we can be silent on. Our children are
00:03:59.220 literally being sterilized. It's not about empathy or being nice or any of that anymore. It's war.
00:04:05.320 It's on. Those people who are hurting our kids are the enemy and we have to defeat them.
00:04:13.080 So you can see in that trailer that there are brand new interviews with me, with some of our
00:04:18.660 teammates, our producers and so on behind the scenes. It's the first two episodes are posted
00:04:23.420 there right now. You can join to watch the full episode and all of our behind the scenes content.
00:04:29.140 YouTube.com slash Megan Kelly. If you're on your laptop or your computer, but if you're on your
00:04:34.680 phone, you got to go through the app, the YouTube app, and then you'll see the join button. Okay,
00:04:38.520 let's turn to the news. We have got updates today on Perez Helton. Did you see what happened with
00:04:43.060 him the other night? I was sitting in my house and could not believe my eyes, could not believe
00:04:50.360 the videos that were circulating from TikTok of Perez in what was obviously a mental health
00:04:56.880 breakdown. It was shocking. TikTok is apologizing for not having listened. I guess it's automated
00:05:04.520 like sensor saw that this was something deeply disturbing that should not go out. And I,
00:05:11.080 it looks like a human may have overruled the automation and allowed it, uh, for far too long
00:05:17.680 worth Perez Hilton, who's the celebrity blogger. He's, you know, he, he kind of reminds me of a
00:05:23.800 Joan Rivers type, like very brutal in his takedowns of these celebrities, unsparing,
00:05:30.480 but entertaining you know i mean we've always had these types in our society and they're i don't
00:05:36.520 want to say harmless because they're not i know a lot of people do get hurt by this kind of
00:05:39.940 commentary but to me they're relatively harmless i just kind of think there's there there's a role
00:05:46.480 for this person in our society and if you're a celebrity you have to learn how to just shrug it 0.92
00:05:52.180 off and say he's like a shit stirrer that's a thing we have um whatever that's a judgment for 0.99
00:05:59.700 individuals to make but he he had looked like a suicide attempt on on camera and um we'll get 0.98
00:06:10.720 into the details of i've got a lot of thoughts on this actually even though i don't have a lot
00:06:14.560 of thoughts on perez hilton himself i mean i've of course i know who he is i've followed him for
00:06:18.900 many years just loosely being in the same general business which is on on camera work for media
00:06:25.620 um very different neighborhoods of that of that world but i'm so deeply disturbed by it so in any
00:06:35.420 event we'll talk about it in just a bit there's also uh some growing concern today about pop star
00:06:39.880 and actress ariana grande and her well-being with her inner circle reportedly exploring treatment
00:06:46.180 options now that broke today for the 33 year old we'll explain and jason our day we've been telling
00:06:53.100 you about him for two weeks now. The youngest black professor in the history of the University
00:06:57.960 of Cambridge has now resigned. He has resigned amid his, it's not just a plagiarism scandal now,
00:07:06.720 it is a scandal involving every single aspect of his biography and whether one word of it
00:07:13.740 is true. And this scandal is, it's well beyond this guy at this point. It is about all of the
00:07:21.580 people, the elite academics at Cambridge and elsewhere, not to mention the woke Upper West
00:07:28.240 Side types, all white women online who just dug in and defended him at every turn, notwithstanding
00:07:37.460 the glaring red flags all over his resume. What is wrong with a system that A, hires a guy like
00:07:47.620 this. And then B, when serious, serious smoke starts arising off of his resume, no one will
00:07:57.140 see the fire. No one will even look to see if there's a fire. In fact, what we're now learning
00:08:02.580 is that this guy, Jason Arde, was attacking the people who said, hey, I see smoke. There could
00:08:10.100 be danger. A lot of smoke by calling the police on them. It's like somebody says, hey, your house
00:08:15.620 may be on fire. I see smoke and you call the police on them. You're harassing me. You're
00:08:19.700 being mean to me. And the police would say you're a lunatic if you did that in real life. But what 0.98
00:08:26.100 happened in the UK was the police started going after journalists who were trying to report on
00:08:32.740 the fact that this guy seemed like he was a massive fraud and was in the midst of defrauding
00:08:39.820 students at Cambridge, Cambridge administrators, though I have no empathy for them as victims
00:08:45.100 because they were complicit, but it's crazy how the system worked together to protect him.
00:08:52.420 Let me ask you, if you are not black and autistic, do you think they would have done the same for you? 0.65
00:09:00.960 Now there are questions about whether he even is autistic. I think he is black. I think that 0.99
00:09:07.240 is a piece of his bio that is held up and it is the explanation for virtually every question I
00:09:13.600 just asked. Joining me now today, the first guest in the history of the Megyn Kelly show,
00:09:19.880 Glenn Greenwald, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and host of System Update on Substack.
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00:10:24.600 supersure insurance agency, LLC, a licensed insurance agency. Glenn, great to see you,
00:10:31.100 my friend. This is a great story. I always feel like I'm at home here. Yeah. Yeah. It is amazing.
00:10:36.000 Yes. Go ahead. Right. Jason Arday. Yes. You're our godfather, official podfather, godfather.
00:10:43.140 And the thing about so there's a lot about this Jason Arday that just came out overnight.
00:10:47.340 So Cambridge dug into the very last second. Late yesterday, it came out and said, OK, we've begun an investigation.
00:10:54.680 We've had a few things come up that even we now have begun an investigation in particular.
00:11:00.560 OK, it started off at at 1.40 p.m. Eastern. They said we have opened an investigation following new information about his academic qualifications and honorary appointments.
00:11:12.060 They were aware of a number of ongoing complaints about academic misconduct, which are being handled.
00:11:18.480 We're also aware that Jesus College in Cambridge will be taking their own steps in relation to some of these matters.
00:11:25.600 I think that's where he worked. That was like the division in which he worked.
00:11:28.460 And then within less than two hours later, he resigned.
00:11:34.080 And I've got to read you some of the resignation post because it's so galling, Glenn.
00:11:40.060 It is so galling.
00:11:41.800 Okay.
00:11:43.040 Dear colleagues, it's with profound sadness.
00:11:45.820 I write to resign with immediate effect from my position at the University of Cambridge
00:11:49.500 and Jesus College.
00:11:51.240 That sounds weird.
00:11:52.360 Jesus College?
00:11:53.140 Is it Jesus?
00:11:53.880 Is it whatever?
00:11:54.860 Okay.
00:11:55.180 I don't know Cambridge.
00:11:56.020 To become the youngest black professor in the university's history was something I could scarcely have imagined as a child growing up with a diagnosis of autism. 0.95
00:12:04.100 Uh-huh, we get it.
00:12:05.680 Unable to speak until I was 11 years old.
00:12:09.460 The thousands celebrated not simply my appointment, but what it represented.
00:12:14.740 That talent, perseverance, and hope can triumph over even the greatest adversity.
00:12:21.220 Well, don't be so modest, Professor Arde.
00:12:24.520 Sadly, the years since my appointment have also been marked by an unrelenting level of public scrutiny and personal attack.
00:12:33.120 While criticism is an inevitable part of academic life, what I've experienced has gone far beyond scholarly disagreement.
00:12:41.200 The relentless, again, there's that word, accusations, speculation, and public commentary have taken a profound toll on me and those I love.
00:12:48.720 I have tried to continue because I believe deeply in the values of higher ed and rigorous scholarship.
00:12:54.520 yada, yada, yada. But there comes a point when the personal cost becomes too great. I have a
00:13:00.880 family. I want to be present for them. I want to reclaim some peace, some privacy, some semblance
00:13:06.040 of an ordinary life. I no longer wish to feel as though I am living under a constant spotlight where
00:13:12.400 every aspect of my life is subject to public examination and judgment. Okay. First of all,
00:13:18.720 this is not how this goes, sir. You don't make yourself a star by going on all these podcasts
00:13:22.640 and doing all these interviews and writing books and doing lectures
00:13:25.300 and then say, oh, the scrutiny of the media glare.
00:13:28.220 It's too bright.
00:13:29.500 Wait, he goes on, finishing up here.
00:13:34.060 Okay, how we should not see his resignation.
00:13:36.640 It should not be mistaken for an acceptance of the narratives that have surrounded me.
00:13:43.320 It is simply the decision of someone who has reached the limits
00:13:46.380 of what any person should reasonably be expected to endure.
00:13:50.800 This is not the end of my work.
00:13:52.120 it is simply the end of this chapter. I need time to heal. I need time to simply be myself again.
00:14:00.200 And when that time comes, I will return stronger, wiser, and with the same determination that has
00:14:05.500 always defined my journey. There is so much more work to do, and I look forward to doing it alongside
00:14:10.320 so many of you in the years ahead. For now, however, I ask only for understanding, for compassion,
00:14:16.540 and for the space to begin again.
00:14:22.640 Glenn, we will be here for the next hour
00:14:25.740 discussing the many frauds that this man has perpetrated on us.
00:14:29.140 It is not one lie.
00:14:30.720 It's not two.
00:14:31.740 It's not small lies.
00:14:32.980 It's massive lies on every piece of his origin story and biography,
00:14:38.720 his books, his publications, his interviews,
00:14:42.500 his scholarly work across the gamut.
00:14:45.840 And what we get here is self-pity, no responsibility taken, no apology, just playing the victim.
00:14:54.900 Your thoughts on the rise and fall of, quote, Professor Jason Arde.
00:15:00.940 Yeah, you know, it's when you when I had when I learned that I was in that we were going to be talking about this story, I had a couple of points that I thought were kind of interesting about the dynamics that led to them.
00:15:10.740 But then when you read the letter, I feel like I have to start with that.
00:15:13.520 it is so mind-boggling that somebody who is facing as you said it's not just like one charge
00:15:20.160 of plagiarism that he denies there's a long litany of very serious non-trivial questions
00:15:26.660 about whether anything he has ever said about his life story that became such an integral part of
00:15:31.360 his academic status about his scientific work about his written work it seems like huge parts
00:15:38.340 of it are just false and fabricated, including things like I ran eight marathons in 10 days.
00:15:44.600 And yet he's so incapable. And I think this is a very broad pathology, probably one of the worst
00:15:50.580 ones plaguing, you know, 30 marathons in 35 days, 30 marathons in 35 days. And by the way,
00:15:58.840 I was actually looking into it. He alleged that on the 21st day he fell and broke his leg,
00:16:05.860 but managed to complete the next nine marathons on a broken line.
00:16:12.640 Yeah, I mean, so that's the thing is it's like if you're faced with the litany of accusations,
00:16:18.060 it's highly likely that some of them are going to be at least somewhat true.
00:16:23.280 You've made mistakes.
00:16:24.340 There isn't a peep, an iota of responsibility taken for things that he admits that he did.
00:16:31.300 Maybe he could say they weren't as serious to justify his dismissal.
00:16:34.240 There's zero.
00:16:34.820 It's just pure victimhood. People are persecuting me. People are after me. I can no longer take after everything I've been through this kind of scrutiny that means that I want to go to my family. And I think this is a broader pathology that large institutions, you see it with COVID and Fauci and all these people who won't accept even an isolated case of error.
00:16:55.540 So that is the thing that jumps out. And I think also in this context, so much of what happened, obviously, is that he's part of multiple victim groups. In fact, he kind of hit the jackpot. And those people in particular are never required to accept responsibility or blame because they're given victimhood status.
00:17:13.600 That means whatever they did is excusable, which is actually a very condescending and
00:17:17.860 patriotizing way of treating people for marginalized groups.
00:17:21.460 But the thing is, Megan, this is what you were you kind of alluded to.
00:17:25.380 It's not like this is just some, you know, mid-level or low-level community college.
00:17:30.360 This is Oxford.
00:17:31.960 And apparently all of this just slipped by as he, oh, Cambridge, right.
00:17:36.660 As he, you know, ascended up the ladder.
00:17:39.740 And why?
00:17:41.700 Why did that happen?
00:17:42.580 And I think obviously a reason is, is that they really were enamored of this story, which a lot of people like at first of, you know, a story of somebody who comes from very difficult circumstances and and succeeds.
00:17:53.860 But in this case, it has to do with his race. It has to do with his background. It has to do with his immigrant status.
00:17:59.000 And it just becomes hands off like, oh, we're not going to challenge him.
00:18:02.840 We don't want to seem like we're racist or we're against people with this biography succeeding in our universities.
00:18:08.340 So much of what's wrong with our institutions and our culture is evident in the story.
00:18:13.220 Oh my gosh. It's, it's really, it's so telling when you go through it all. And I'm, and we're
00:18:18.320 going to get to that in a second. I want to talk about just a couple, just a couple of the lies.
00:18:23.380 The Free Beacon, which has also been doing great. A lot of people have been doing great work on
00:18:26.600 this, including the Free Beacon. And they, he's got a memoir coming out or a book. He's got a
00:18:31.780 book coming out. And they report that an initial version of his book published by Simon and
00:18:38.280 Schuster and his speaker bio with Simon and Schuster, because he, I guess he, he speaks for
00:18:44.080 them to stated that he has been a prolific fundraiser. I told the audience about this
00:18:49.140 yesterday, raised over 5.5 million pounds for 80 national charities over a 20 year period.
00:18:55.140 And he says, including the, this is how he did it among other ways, including by running 30
00:19:01.020 marathons in 35 days, nine of which were allegedly with a broken leg, 300 miles in three days,
00:19:09.120 and 600 miles in six days. Simon and Schuster quietly edited our day's bio at some point
00:19:15.340 between May 19th and July 24th, 2025, 2025, Glenn, to remove the exact amount of money
00:19:22.780 raised by our day and to omit any mention of the running feet. So this is very interesting because
00:19:30.120 somebody went to him and said, you raised over 5.5 million pounds for 80 charities over 20 years.
00:19:36.180 Like that's, that's actually quite a lot. How did you do that? And then the story started to change
00:19:41.820 to, well, there were a lot of people involved and, um, I can't give you their names because
00:19:46.880 everyone signed an NDA because, because people are so protective of not letting anyone know
00:19:52.880 about their charitable work. Okay. Like that's not a thing where somebody's like,
00:19:57.660 we're all going to run for children's cancer and we're going to raise a million dollars.
00:20:02.600 Everyone sign NDAs, not disclosing our names. So that, okay. So that got removed. And then I did
00:20:08.960 look this up about the running because I don't know anything about running. I don't run. Um,
00:20:14.240 but it sounds completely not credible. All right. So here's what I found. If he were able to do 600
00:20:20.840 miles in six days. This would put him among the world's top athletes. He would be a household
00:20:29.560 name in the running community. These are considered elite ultra distance runners.
00:20:35.680 And the community, as you will see if you look online, is extremely skeptical. No one has ever
00:20:42.540 heard of this man. And it's a rather small circle of people who can do this and have done this. In
00:20:48.300 In fact, the world record world record is six hundred and fifty miles in six days.
00:20:56.360 It was done on a flat circuit with a large support team and medical help on 24 seven
00:21:03.360 standby.
00:21:05.140 One of the people in this circle quoted online said it would be a miracle if this guy our
00:21:11.100 day managed to do this in just street races.
00:21:14.400 He says he ran from one London city to another.
00:21:16.820 And that's how he said it would be a miracle. And the addendum that at least one of these
00:21:23.540 publications made was to change the six days to 12. Okay, he did 600 miles in 12. That also
00:21:30.500 sounds like complete bullshit. And he always seems to be folding in some injury. It's not 1.00
00:21:37.340 enough for him to complete the feat like allegedly 30 marathons in 30 days. He's got to do it or
00:21:46.680 35 days. He's got to do it on a broken leg. Then yesterday we talked about how he said
00:21:50.820 he got his PhD in under two and a half years. And when he went to defend his dissertation,
00:21:56.440 he had just gotten over or just gotten treated for a brain tumor and also some sort of
00:22:04.520 embolism in his lung or lung infarction. He had multiple physical problems and yet he sat there,
00:22:13.180 Glenn. And he defended that dissertation and did so well that they gave him his degree. And not
00:22:19.520 only that. OK, listen to this. Listen to this. Benjamin Ryan has been doing a good job reporting
00:22:25.120 on this, says in the scene in Jason Arde's memoir in which he defends his thesis, which I think
00:22:31.200 would have been the master's thesis one level down. The reviewers absolutely tear it to shreds,
00:22:36.780 sending our day into a panic attack so in the hallway our day's mentor smacks him to get him
00:22:43.220 to calm down he returns finishes his defense and gets his phd okay so he doesn't mean a thesis i
00:22:48.920 guess he means dissertation the panel requests some changes but otherwise passes him does anyone 0.93
00:22:53.620 believe that some mentor stood outside of the phd defense and smacked this black autistic professor 0.98
00:23:01.180 in the face. The lies are everywhere. Yeah, I mean, and so brazenly so, right? There's obviously 0.99
00:23:08.260 something pathological with him. He built his entire biography, his entire life story based on
00:23:14.320 a series of endless lies. And I think people who do that get a kind of addiction. Like every story
00:23:19.120 has to be shocking and remarkable. But this goes back to that letter that you read that you asked
00:23:24.200 me about first, which I didn't talk about this part. He made it seem as though all he is is this
00:23:30.000 kind of austere scholar who just wants to delve into intellectual endeavors and research and study
00:23:37.420 and do scholarship. And all these people, because of who he is, are attacking him and scrutinizing
00:23:43.080 him. And he never bargained for that. He just wants to now escape it. The reality is they
00:23:48.700 turned him into a major media star. They promoted him endlessly. The reason he got this book deal
00:23:55.700 is because he has become an extremely talked about figure in the media.
00:23:59.980 If you're not somebody who wants media scrutiny,
00:24:01.500 you don't go and write a book and then go on a major book tour
00:24:05.300 about what it is that you're doing and saying.
00:24:08.080 They marketed him aggressively and clearly because of who he is,
00:24:13.300 because of his demographics,
00:24:14.880 and this is something that happens in universities all the time.
00:24:17.300 I mean, it's just such a violation of meritocracy.
00:24:20.920 They'll just pass people along because they're afraid in left liberal culture
00:24:25.080 of investigating or scrutinizing people who are in one of those protective classes or in his case
00:24:31.140 kind of the the most protective class because there's no story more kind of heart-tugging
00:24:37.160 or tragic than his even though it's all a lie and that's the issue it's like he okay he's obviously
00:24:43.440 someone met with with pathological lying and mental issues how did these universities again
00:24:48.500 the leading academic universities in the world miss all this promote these fake stories when
00:24:53.860 obviously all the evidence was not that hard to find because some of it is just on its face
00:24:59.180 preposterous like those races here's to your point how a professor at cambridge defended him
00:25:07.180 professor baskar vera who serves as the pro vice chancellor of education at the university of 0.93
00:25:13.720 cambridge describes our day as an exceptional scholar well i mean exceptional for all the wrong
00:25:21.400 reasons, but that's not how he meant it. Quote, he will contribute significantly to Cambridge's
00:25:26.840 research in this area and addressing, he's talking about all of his writings about DEI and so on,
00:25:36.520 addressing the underrepresentation of people from socioeconomically disadvantaged backgrounds,
00:25:42.960 especially those from black, Asian and other minority ethnic communities. This is what he's
00:25:46.940 touting as what this guy will bring to Cambridge, that he will address the underrepresentation of
00:25:53.080 people from socioeconomically disadvantaged backgrounds, especially those from black,
00:25:57.320 Asian and other minority ethnic communities. He's saying it with a bunch of dressed up words.
00:26:01.560 He's black and we don't have enough blacks here. That is what he's saying right there. 0.99
00:26:06.680 Then he goes on, quote, his experiences highlight the barriers faced by many underrepresented groups
00:26:13.800 across higher education and especially at leading universities. Cambridge has a responsibility to do
00:26:20.200 everything it can to address this by creating academic spaces where everyone feels they belong.
00:26:25.800 His experience highlights the barriers faced by many underrepresented groups. That's all. They
00:26:30.300 said it. They hired him because of his skin color. They didn't care about whether he was a legitimate
00:26:39.360 scholar or academic. And then when the questions were raised, he and they played the race card
00:26:47.240 at every turn, trying to make all of his critics look and feel and sound like bigots for questioning
00:26:56.100 the lies they were being told. It's shocking to me. There's one guy in particular whose name is
00:27:03.320 Nathan Kofnes. He's a free speech advocate. He was fired by Cambridge College. And this guy
00:27:10.660 wrote this Substack post that got this started saying, I think this guy plagiarized over 100
00:27:17.560 different times in his academic works. And the university turned around and said, you're racist
00:27:23.260 and you've been a racist for a long time. And therefore, we dismiss everything. Now we find
00:27:29.160 out that Arday himself got not one, but two different police investigations started against
00:27:37.700 his critics. There were at least two different people who raised questions about him that he
00:27:44.520 turned around and got investigated by the cops. One is I have so many, so many articles in front
00:27:53.500 of me. Hold on. I will get you the names. But they they've now spoken out. And one one was
00:28:01.080 investigated by the police. He only found out when the police admitted it, that his last name is
00:28:05.960 Grove, when the police admitted that they had been conducting an investigation against him for four
00:28:11.520 months for the nerve of looking into Professor Arday. Listen here to one with this. This is the
00:28:17.200 police commissioner, Sergeant Mark Rowley apologizing. Got to challenge you on this one.
00:28:22.180 The Metropolitan Police is accused of press censorship
00:28:24.720 for investigating a journalist who tried to expose a Cambridge professor
00:28:28.000 who's alleged to have committed plagiarism.
00:28:29.880 Jack Grove, a reporter for the Times Higher Education,
00:28:33.220 a four-month investigation.
00:28:34.560 Why was that necessary, Commissioner?
00:28:35.940 We dropped the ball on that one, Nick.
00:28:37.400 Let's not sort of beat about the bush.
00:28:40.040 A report came in, I think it was of harassment or some crime like that.
00:28:45.140 It should have been screened out earlier on as not requiring investigation.
00:28:47.900 When you say screened out, it should have been one phone call, no further action.
00:28:51.160 Nothing requiring police action.
00:28:53.120 It's sat on an officer's workload and he made a couple of phone calls,
00:28:55.460 which in hindsight, we shouldn't have done that.
00:28:56.900 So a big organisation will make the odd mistake.
00:28:59.240 Apology to the reporter involved?
00:29:00.720 Yeah, we shouldn't have made that call to him and said that.
00:29:04.480 No, you shouldn't.
00:29:05.680 That was Jack Grove that you investigated.
00:29:08.260 Scotland Yard investigated him trying to expose,
00:29:11.200 as he was trying to expose a plagiarism scandal,
00:29:14.080 told him to stop asking a Cambridge professor questions,
00:29:17.040 meaning our day.
00:29:18.580 He works for the Times Higher Education,
00:29:21.160 T.H.E. He was accused of harassment after he emailed a series of questions to the professor.
00:29:27.460 Glenn, that was his sin. Mr. Grove said officers told him to stop contacting the professor
00:29:32.080 because the professor's mental health had been affected by the questions.
00:29:37.800 Then Arde also hired the law firm Carter Ruck, which suggested in a letter to T.H.E.
00:29:43.400 that its apparent attack on Arde may be racially motivated. And that wasn't even the only time.
00:29:50.040 He also reported a different academic critic to the police.
00:29:54.000 That guy's name was Dr. David Harris, professor emeritus at Plymouth Marjohn University, and one of the first scholars to raise concerns about this guy already is a villain.
00:30:05.440 He's a villain, Glenn.
00:30:07.640 You know, Megan, one of the one of the funniest things I've ever read in my life, and I still laugh about it to this day when I remember it, is that when Elizabeth Warren went to was hired by Harvard Law School, there started to be these articles protesting the lack of women of color or people of color on the faculties of our best law schools.
00:30:25.720 And there was this survey and this law review article that said things are sort of starting to get better.
00:30:32.460 And there was a footnote saying Harvard Law, for example, recently hired Elizabeth Warren, the first ever faculty member of Native American origin.
00:30:42.620 And she got counted as a woman of color at Harvard that showed that the numbers were getting better. 0.85
00:30:48.060 There was a time in like 2020 when everybody understood the absolute insanity of wokeness. 0.99
00:30:53.880 And mostly, we've kind of moved beyond the most extreme versions.
00:30:58.660 But in these academic institutions, where they came from, basically, where they were created and disseminated, they thrive almost as strongly.
00:31:06.400 And what this basically is, it's so obvious, is that in part, these people who made him into an academic star are now the people who are supposed to investigate it.
00:31:15.100 And they don't want to admit that they were part of these gross errors because it's not just him.
00:31:20.480 They have to explain themselves.
00:31:21.640 but the much bigger part is so obvious. It's like the media and Fauci, by the way. It's like the
00:31:27.160 media and Fauci right now. Exactly. Exactly. And so many other instances as well. But the bigger
00:31:32.960 part of it, which again, I don't necessarily find there anything wrong or it's not like
00:31:38.960 ill intention. If somebody kind of finds it refreshing or nice or interesting that somebody
00:31:44.940 from a very disadvantaged background overcomes all that and gets to Cambridge, because usually
00:31:51.480 they're from rich families and they have a certain path and if someone can do that but it has to be 0.69
00:31:56.260 true right in order to be celebrated and because it was somebody who was black because it was
00:32:02.400 somebody from his background instantly they started ascribing to the people who were
00:32:09.140 investigating it racist motives even though the racist motives were the people who were defending
00:32:14.180 him for no reason other than his race and that's always the projection you know it's like those
00:32:20.820 are the people who are thinking this is a black person. Other people were thinking this is a
00:32:24.860 celebrated scholar who's getting more famous, but seems to have a whole history of lies.
00:32:30.880 And he would not. Race is a factor here, but it's a factor that helped him at every turn.
00:32:35.180 It's a no one was coming down on him because he was black. Exactly. He was promoted because he
00:32:39.740 was black and then defended knee jerk defense. That guy, Nathan Kofnes, again, he's a former 0.92
00:32:44.880 Cambridge professor who was one of the first people to detect a fraud here. He came out on
00:32:49.360 X and said game over now that our day resigned. Now I'd like to hear from the Cambridge University
00:32:55.100 administrators who said this was a, quote, vile campaign against a world class scholar and said
00:33:04.120 that our day had been cleared by the investigations of any wrongdoing. They said a victim of a vile
00:33:10.160 campaign to undermine his credibility, which must stop. That's what Cambridge said. They have lost
00:33:16.780 all credibility. They have humiliated themselves. I got to get to Eli Steele, who we love. He's the
00:33:24.620 son of Shelby Steele and is a filmmaker in his own right. One of the early guests, not quite as early
00:33:31.040 as Glenn Greenwald, our podfather. I laid the foundation for him. Totally. He said, Glenn
00:33:36.760 Greenwald goes on this show. Why wouldn't I? I mean, I'm in. So Eli and his dad, Shelby, are very
00:33:43.540 outspoken on the issue of Ray Shelby Steele has been an academic scholar in the in the vein of
00:33:50.000 Thomas Sowell very well respected and was respected by the academy as well until he started as a black
00:33:57.780 man to write truths about the issues we're discussing here and then he was kicked out of 0.98
00:34:03.220 that polite society because he wasn't saying the right things anymore Glenn Lowry has a similar
00:34:07.580 story about what's happened to him. Carol Swain, she's got an identical story to that. Glenn wasn't
00:34:14.520 kicked out of academia, but has received blowback. Okay, here's what Eli posted. He said, personally,
00:34:20.440 I couldn't care less about Jason Arde. If anything, he's a kind of victim here, though,
00:34:24.340 one that bears tremendous responsibility for his actions. I say victim because his stories and the
00:34:28.260 work he did without rigorous examination that one would expect of a top school like Cambridge,
00:34:32.860 because his stories and the work that he did
00:34:36.080 went without rigorous examination
00:34:37.560 that one would expect there. 1.00
00:34:38.800 They did this because Arde's black 0.97
00:34:40.240 and to check their diversity poster boy's story
00:34:42.620 would run the risk of them being charged with racism.
00:34:45.680 The whites wanted their innocence,
00:34:47.660 however false it was. 0.96
00:34:48.900 And it is these whites who claim to care 0.95
00:34:51.680 about black excellence. 0.99
00:34:54.040 And that is the cruelty here. 0.97
00:34:55.420 Now listen to this part.
00:34:56.500 When Cambridge shielded Arde
00:34:58.340 from the kind of scrutiny
00:34:59.440 that nearly all professors face,
00:35:01.100 they did not defend the remaining integrity of academia. Instead, they only confirmed the ugly
00:35:07.340 stereotypes that are whispered about black scholars that they cannot do the work and that 0.97
00:35:12.280 the bar must be lowered. This is the price that blacks who choose the path of merit must pay for 0.98
00:35:18.820 the cowardice of the weak who play the black power white guilt coin. So good. So true. Yeah. And this 1.00
00:35:28.800 is you know this is something i think you and i have talked about this before this is something
00:35:32.120 embedded in left-wing culture that masquerades is defending marginalized groups but in reality has a
00:35:38.620 very kind of paternalistic view of them i remember 10 years ago when i was at the intercept we were
00:35:45.240 talking about having journalists participate in the comment section because it builds community
00:35:49.320 and people came along and said that's easy for you to say but we have people of color who are
00:35:54.820 journalists and females who are journalists and the comment sections can be really vitriolic and
00:35:59.580 they shouldn't be expected to confront that as though women people of color can't handle 0.99
00:36:06.000 critical or harsh comments on the on the internet only white people can and they didn't realize how
00:36:13.480 actually racist that is and there's so many examples like that where they'll try and you
00:36:19.140 provide this kind of theory that women are not really strong enough to withstand the normal 1.00
00:36:25.520 rigors of political discourse and political argument. And here, this is exactly what this 1.00
00:36:30.240 is all based on, the idea that if you have a black academic star and somebody starts scrutinizing
00:36:40.660 their record, it can't be because they're doing it for the same reason academic records get
00:36:46.100 scrutinized all the time because they might be have errors in them they might have misled
00:36:49.960 there might be plagiarism no it has to be racism and this is as you say this is what demeans
00:36:56.300 the accomplishments of actual black scholars they are saying basically improving all the time
00:37:01.220 we have black scholars climb the ladder not because they're great scholars but because they're
00:37:05.460 black and that's what we want and then you have you know black scholars and you'll hear this from 1.00
00:37:10.080 black people all the time who say the fact that they're doing that demeans my own accomplishments
00:37:14.540 because people assume that I too climbed the ladder of success, not because I had the merits 0.66
00:37:19.900 or accomplishments to do it, but because I was black and it was kind of grease for me and nobody
00:37:24.380 really stood in my way. It's, it's actually, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's racism masquerading as
00:37:30.380 liberal enlightenment and it's made me sick for so long. Yes. Yes. Go back. I mean, I guarantee
00:37:35.860 you go back and take a look at Thomas Sowell's early academic writings. You're not going to find
00:37:39.800 a bunch of plagiarism and fraud in his bio. You're just not. You're not going to find that
00:37:44.660 with Glenn Lowry either. It's take any Supreme Court justice and see how they did in law school
00:37:49.960 or what papers they wrote or their law review articles that they wrote for their journal.
00:37:53.300 They're not going to be full of plagiarism and like white, black, female or male. This is not
00:37:58.400 a thing for true academics. True academics, as they're rising up the ladder, understand the
00:38:03.320 rules perfectly and follow them. That's generally how people who are very, very successful in these
00:38:08.660 fields anyway, maybe not in tech, uh, get successful. That's how they do it. They play
00:38:14.000 by the rules. They work harder. They have a need for approval that actually they turn around in
00:38:19.300 this world and make really work for them. And they choose industries where that that's perfect.
00:38:23.580 You know, you, you can get promoted based on pleasing others with excellent work. You know,
00:38:29.260 like there are a lot of industries where that's still a thing. And that's a great thing. Uh,
00:38:33.000 this guy was a fraud and managed to sort of come in sideways to this industry because 1.00
00:38:37.840 he had certain qualifications that that women like his boss at Cambridge, who looks like a fool, 1.00
00:38:45.100 really enjoyed. Do we have this lady? She's. Yeah, we got her. You'd play the soundbite. 0.99
00:38:51.420 Here she is talking to him. Professor Jason Alday was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder at the
00:38:57.980 age of three. He couldn't speak until he was 11 and read or write until he was 18. Therapists
00:39:04.560 predicted he would need full-time assistance throughout his life how wrong they were and now
00:39:10.560 jason is days away from achieving another ambition here's his new boss at cambridge part of his
00:39:19.520 research will look at new ways to make higher education more accessible for everyone what can
00:39:26.200 we do to ensure that this isn't a market appointment in five years time how can this become the norm
00:39:31.440 we've listened to the voices of our black scholars and our black students and some of it has not been
00:39:39.040 easy to hear to be honest but we're able to face up to some of the structural issues that people
00:39:47.740 that people face there will be those i think this is a tokenistic appointment what are your thoughts
00:39:52.420 on this the board of electors it is interview day were absolutely unanimous we are so lucky to have
00:40:00.740 you uh you are the best in the world in terms of the research that you do oh my god glenn her name
00:40:09.180 is professor hillary cremin c-r-e-m-i-n you can it's just it it's oozing off of her this 0.53
00:40:17.020 condescension you know this boot licking which she would do for no she would do for no other 0.83
00:40:22.540 new professor there he gets to cross-examine her on how this is not going to be seen as tokenism
00:40:27.640 it is tokenism so that's how it will be seen and and you've got professors at cambridge running
00:40:33.220 around on the record saying that's exactly why you were hired as for the it was unanimous what
00:40:38.940 an amazing exceptional scholar you are here's just a couple of new evidence posts this is from the
00:40:44.300 uk times last night all right it's important to offer the actual example so people understand 0.85
00:40:49.020 this is not just made up shit that he that he was a fraud that his stuff is made up but our 0.70
00:40:54.600 criticisms aren't. This is, again, the UK Times, they find their analysis of his writings find 0.99
00:41:00.520 his assertions literally impossible in instance after instance. So this is, okay, one of his
00:41:08.340 papers. In one of his papers, he quotes a Latin American academic as saying, quote,
00:41:14.520 my understanding of English is improving daily. Sometimes I struggle to articulate clearly and
00:41:20.600 accurately what I would like to say to the health care professionals provided at university. Nice.
00:41:26.640 OK, kind of anodyne, whatever. There was just one issue, reports the paper. Three years prior,
00:41:31.500 he had attributed this exact same quote to an Asian female undergraduate, not a Latin American
00:41:38.940 academic. The exact quote, Glenn. We talked about this one yesterday, about how he gave a webinar
00:41:46.360 in July, 2020, talking about a paper that he was about to publish. And he referred to a participant
00:41:51.260 who took their own life, reading out this person's quote, detailing the violence of these racialized 0.72
00:41:56.760 cultures in the academic world. Then he did publish the paper. He used near identical quotes.
00:42:01.700 And weirdly, there was no reference to this person committing suicide. That seems like kind of an
00:42:06.580 important detail where you're talking about the violence of racialized cultures in the academic
00:42:10.900 world. Why would you not then talk about the fact in your written paper, the man wound up taking his
00:42:15.900 own life seems relevant, no? And then in one paper titled Attempting to Break the Chain,
00:42:21.720 Reimagining Inclusive Pedagogy and Decolonizing the Curriculum Within the Academy, he says he
00:42:27.880 interviewed a sample of 17 participants, but a breakdown of their races, genders, and jobs adds
00:42:32.460 up to 18. Well, okay, anybody can make a mistake like that, right? Maybe he was just off by one.
00:42:36.940 Further oddities appear, they write. He quotes four distinct academics, but says he only
00:42:41.300 only interviewed three. He quotes five mixed heritage participants, but interviewed only
00:42:46.600 four. He attributes a quote to participant number 21 in a study that only interviewed 17 or 18.
00:42:52.520 Similar issues appear in five studies. Pick a paper, any paper, and you will find it littered
00:43:01.980 with these so-called innocent errors, Glenn. Yeah. And there's what I mean, Megan, you know,
00:43:06.800 they weren't just saying like, oh, look at how amazing it is that he made it to the faculty.
00:43:11.300 They were trying to promote him as some kind of like generationally brilliant scholar doing the kind of scholarly work that very few academics ever are able to actually achieve.
00:43:23.120 So in order to you would think that if you actually were an academic and you were heaping praise on somebody's scholarly work that way, you would have a very in-depth understanding of it.
00:43:34.200 Clearly, they just looked at him.
00:43:36.000 They thought it was a nice story.
00:43:37.800 It probably word of mouth about how brilliant he is.
00:43:40.040 And then they just went with it. And I think, again, if you go back to any faculty or any any campus these days, and again, I think we have passed some of the worst, you know, woke insanities.
00:43:54.660 Nothing there has changed, if anything, it's regressed. And so this idea that there's some woman using that kind of condescending tone saying, no, you are one of the most brilliant appointees.
00:44:04.040 This is obviously such a fraud. And I actually think that academic institutions are important. I think having great universities is a really important thing for society. It is so tragic what has been done to our universities, the way in which the cheapest, just kind of most corrupted politics have been have contaminated every component of hiring and rules for discourse and how classrooms are are conducted.
00:44:31.080 And again, I mean, if Cambridge can shoot this guy up the ladder, despite zillions of red flags that basically they chose not to see because they thought it was racist to investigate him.
00:44:43.180 It's such a sad indictment on on our major Western institutions of universities.
00:44:48.180 Completely. I want to I want to tell you that.
00:44:51.700 So now some of the people are actually questioning now this origin story, whether he really did have autism, whether it was Asperger's, as he later claimed it was.
00:45:01.080 whether he really was nonverbal entirely until he was 11, whether he couldn't read or write
00:45:08.940 one word until age 17 or 18. Of course, there's reason to doubt all of this because he's told
00:45:15.380 way too many lies to count. He's obviously a serial fabulist, a pathological liar. That 1.00
00:45:21.820 seems clear. Now, as we speak, Benjamin Ryan, who I just mentioned, independent journalist,
00:45:27.720 he posts the following online does jason arday actually have epilepsy yet another disability
00:45:35.140 he claims he's been laboring under in his memoir jason arday claims to have developed epilepsy
00:45:40.220 after being savagely beaten at a bus stop at age 18 he claims he wears a medical alert bracelet
00:45:45.840 that tracks his whereabouts but i can find no evidence in any photo that he wears such a
00:45:51.480 bracelet so it does make you wonder whether that too is a lie yesterday we touched on this briefly
00:45:57.640 Glenn, but he also has been since this story broke. And what tracks with his resignation letter,
00:46:04.560 you know, poor me, I need to find some peace. It's too high a price. This has been relentless.
00:46:10.180 Spend time with my family. Yes. He also seems to have been making up stories of a harassment
00:46:17.380 that he claims have broken since this story broke, which that seems right on on brand for him,
00:46:25.080 Right. Like now, allegedly, the evil racists who are everywhere are getting even racistery all over him.
00:46:32.240 He claims to have been threatened and assaulted multiple times.
00:46:35.280 A panic button was installed in his office after he claimed this after the alleged first encounter with a masked assailant that weirdly was not reflected on any of the CCTV covering the university.
00:46:48.540 And he claims to have pushed the button, but no one came.
00:46:52.720 So Cambridge was now ignoring the panic button calls of its favored black professor who had already said he was attacked.
00:47:01.620 But he pressed the panic button and they were like, eh, eh.
00:47:06.300 Similar to how the palace told Meghan Markle when she said, I'm about to kill myself, that they couldn't help her and she'd have to walk away and deal with it on her own.
00:47:13.500 Yeah, go find some help.
00:47:15.520 But don't you think the same day of the second attack?
00:47:17.520 Oh, sorry, go ahead.
00:47:18.380 Yeah, uh-huh.
00:47:19.360 Yeah, so I'm almost done.
00:47:20.220 Same day of the second attack in quotes. He continued with his working day and conducted a
00:47:25.540 Ph.D. Viva for a student less than two hours later. Not to mention the intruder was not picked
00:47:31.020 up on any campus cameras. So these are two alleged incidents. And then he claimed that a severed pig's
00:47:35.340 head was sent to his home that he immediately threw it away. He had no evidence of it, Glenn,
00:47:40.480 but trust him. Someone sent a severed pig's head to him and only told the police about it months
00:47:46.040 later, but then claimed that they did conduct an investigation. The Guardian, because all of this
00:47:52.500 is being dismissed as a right wing press operation. The Guardian. OK, that's basically as left as the
00:47:57.800 intercept. The Guardian went to all the butchers in town. No one knew anything about a severed
00:48:03.020 pig's head. Didn't sell one. Didn't none of that. And went to the police who said, absolutely not.
00:48:08.260 We have never investigated such a thing. This guy watched too many episodes of The Godfather.
00:48:12.360 he believed the thing with the horse's head in the bed he changed into a pig's head outside of
00:48:16.840 his front door but now this is a defense mechanism and he's suggesting like suicidal thoughts you've
00:48:23.760 the university others have come out saying they're worried he's going to commit suicide stop
00:48:28.860 back off they're playing that card glenn as though we're the villains for looking into this
00:48:34.540 it's really the worst expression of left-wing culture the thing that has alienated so many
00:48:39.380 I mean, if you go – I was just listening to all of the different examples you cited of where he either lied or seems to have made claims about something that happened to him that have no evidence.
00:48:49.480 Each one of them, what they have in common is it's a form of victimhood, right?
00:48:53.720 Like even the autism, even all these diseases he claims he has, these attacks on him because victimhood, this kind of victimhood is the currency of how you get social capital in academic circles,
00:49:07.060 as an academic institution and left-wing circles.
00:49:09.740 You know, I don't know how often you interact
00:49:11.400 with people in Gen Z.
00:49:12.420 My kids are basically like kind of on the border of Gen Z.
00:49:16.260 So many of their friends who are in Gen Z
00:49:17.800 constantly have all these ailments, you know,
00:49:20.020 that people have never really heard of before.
00:49:23.340 It's kind of like, it's partly a way of excusing your failures
00:49:28.440 or excusing anything that's happened
00:49:30.120 or generating sympathy.
00:49:31.820 But part of it is just like victimhood is the thing
00:49:34.660 that everybody craves and is taught to crave
00:49:36.880 because that's the thing that generates the most benefits.
00:49:39.760 And it seems like he's just in a very extreme case
00:49:42.520 of where he built his entire biography
00:49:44.700 on the most extreme victimhood possible
00:49:46.800 and the universities ate it up.
00:49:49.220 And so did the media that was turning him into a star.
00:49:51.300 I think that's what is a big part of what's happening here.
00:49:55.180 I think he's only 37 years old now.
00:49:58.160 And in that time, he wants us to believe
00:50:00.200 that he had autism, Asperger's, epilepsy,
00:50:04.760 nonverbal to 11 couldn't read or write until 18 was also dyslexic that he suffered a brain tumor
00:50:11.720 some sort of lung infarction that he had a broken leg as he was running 30 miles and 30 30 marathons
00:50:19.360 in 30 days that he was beaten up so badly at a bus stop that he got epilepsy that he was attacked
00:50:24.580 on the university of cambridge um and threatened multiple times but cccv never caught it and um 0.66
00:50:30.520 that now they're dumping severed pig's heads in his yard. I mean, it's, it's beyond. Okay. We
00:50:39.300 got to go. We're coming right back though. There's much more for Glenn. Don't go away. We'll get to
00:50:43.900 Ariana Grande and Perez Hilton. A lot of thoughts on that. Stay tuned. You might already own a
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00:52:23.620 Glenn Greenwald is back with me now. He is the host of System Update, which you can find
00:52:27.720 on his sub stack. Okay, Glenn, let's talk about, I guess we'll do Ariana Grande next.
00:52:36.140 Ariana Grande's people are saying, well, there's a report that concern is growing behind the scenes
00:52:44.280 about her with multiple insiders telling Naughty But Nice, that's our friend Rob Shooter,
00:52:49.960 that they are quietly exploring treatment options for her and wellness facilities once she completes
00:52:56.700 her tour later this year rob is like formally of the in on the inside of hollywood he represented
00:53:03.900 a lot of very like household names um people who you know just by their first names for many many
00:53:09.860 years as their pr uh person and now he's uh doing this sub stack which is actually very popular
00:53:15.040 naughty but nice and he's been on the show a few times and goes on maureen callahan's the nerve
00:53:18.520 in any event so this is rob reporting that concern behind the scenes is growing for her multiple
00:53:23.540 insider is telling naughty but nice that her inner circle is quietly exploring treatment options
00:53:27.280 when she completes her tour grande has never said that she has an eating disorder but you take one
00:53:36.440 look at her glenn and you'd be crazy not to suspect she does look at this picture here we
00:53:44.240 are showing where it she is skin and bones um i mean the clavicle the just all of the bones 1.00
00:53:52.820 on the torso are protruding above her v-neck dress. Her arms look skeletal. Her face has 0.99
00:54:02.940 looked skeletal for quite some time. This is from her most recent musical music video. And I want
00:54:09.360 to show you something. We actually, we started looking into this, this problem and this report
00:54:14.460 came across her latest music video um it's incredible not only does she look incredibly 0.99
00:54:22.860 skinny but in this music video she murders a panel of judgmental talent scouts and entertainment
00:54:30.920 executives with a chainsaw are we is it just vo deb it's not a sot let's yeah let's play it watch 0.98
00:54:44.460 Oh, my God.
00:54:57.180 OMG. 1.00
00:54:58.700 She is covered in blood. 1.00
00:55:01.600 You can see her with a chainsaw hacking off the heads and the bodies of these executives. 0.91
00:55:08.340 And their blood is spewing everywhere. 0.64
00:55:12.200 She's got she's got problems, Glenn. 1.00
00:55:14.460 Obviously, this woman's got problems. And what's really crazy about this report is that they they reportedly her people reportedly are they're not going to rush her off to rehab or whatever she's going in for right now.
00:55:32.620 they want to wait. They think that she should be allowed to complete her tour and, you know,
00:55:41.020 sort of finish her public appearances. And then then they're going to encourage her to go into
00:55:46.360 some sort of wellness program or treatment program, because let's face it, everyone needs 1.00
00:55:52.720 to get paid off of the juggernaut that is Ariana Grande. You know, what's amazing to me is that
00:55:59.960 it'd be one thing if she just showed up at some talk show or a word show and her extremely
00:56:06.760 emaciated condition were noticeable this happened in a music video that was produced obviously with
00:56:16.120 all kinds of money and very well accomplished people they could have edited it they could have
00:56:21.600 you know i don't know covered it up did not did no one notice that she was it was like it wasn't
00:56:28.120 just like oh she looks a little thin it was shocking to watch i don't she almost looked
00:56:33.140 like an auschwitz victim you know when you've seen them come out and every bone that shouldn't be
00:56:37.600 visible is visible yeah that scene is it with that dress and also they dressed her in a way
00:56:44.780 that made it visible too so why would they do that now obviously i don't know for sure what
00:56:50.460 the eating disorder is obviously people speculate it's anorexia it could be a different kind of
00:56:54.740 health problem that causes that kind of severe weight loss, but there's really something going
00:56:58.800 very wrong. And how many times have we seen that celebrities of this stature who are just
00:57:04.720 constantly working in the public eye, you know, put it, as you said, so many people depend on them
00:57:09.980 for all kinds of money and profit, want to keep them, you know, running like a workhorse like
00:57:13.920 they did with Michael Jackson. How many of them end up in these kinds of debilitated conditions?
00:57:19.660 It's really kind of a sad indictment of our celebrity industry and everything else. But
00:57:23.240 But at the end of the day, she's an adult, and it's just very hard to understand how somebody surrounded by all these management teams and studios and directors could have allowed it to get to this point where not just she saw and that it's her condition, but the whole public saw.
00:57:38.220 Yeah. You know, she's 33 years old now. She was, of course, a former child star. We talked about her last year when the whole Nickelodeon scandal became household news with that one executive having sexualized every young girl, Jamie Lynn Spears, Ariana Grande, many others who came on Nickelodeon, these young, sweet girls who he tried to turn into soft porn stars.
00:58:06.900 and of course they were so young they didn't realize half the time what he was having them do
00:58:11.840 maybe they did realize i don't know but either way it was completely exploitative and then of
00:58:16.620 course there were actual pedophiles running around nickelodeon as well actual pedophiles 0.66
00:58:20.900 as well and she came up at nickelodeon and she was one of the girls they asked to do very
00:58:27.260 inappropriate scenes we have the one cut i mean it's all it almost requires a viewer warning
00:58:32.040 Not really, but it's from Nickelodeon. And here's a very young Ariana Grande being completely 0.95
00:58:37.100 exploited in Sot 13. Sometimes I wonder if you can get juice from a potato. 1.00
00:58:50.040 Did that air on Nickelodeon? Come on, give up the juice. Yikes. I'm thirsty.
00:58:59.160 In another video, Ariana's pouring water on herself in what seems like a very sexual manner.
00:59:04.220 And people started saying, this feels inappropriate for children.
00:59:09.000 Oh, my God. Alexa Nichols was another one. She came on the show and told us everything.
00:59:14.080 We'll get the episode number if you guys want to go back and watch it.
00:59:16.680 But that was a documentary called Quiet on Set.
00:59:18.500 But there's a reason 99% of parents say no to putting their child in front of the camera at a very young age.
00:59:29.160 or in front of a microphone, as was done to Justin Bieber, et cetera.
00:59:33.080 You could not pay me enough money to put my kids in, like, especially in the Hollywood machine,
00:59:38.480 given everything we know about the just utter immorality and the exploitation that takes place
00:59:44.400 on every last level there and has for decades. And all you have to do is look at the people who
00:59:48.880 became child stars in some way or another. It's almost inevitable that they end up,
00:59:54.800 in a kind of tragic adulthood.
00:59:58.280 I remember one of the times that was on your show,
01:00:00.180 you talked about you had just seen the Michael Jackson movie
01:00:02.120 and really liked it.
01:00:03.420 I happened to watch it on a plane.
01:00:04.500 I was in the U.S. this week, came back,
01:00:06.160 and I watched it as well.
01:00:08.120 And that was the thing that, again, struck me is
01:00:10.200 you take these people and put them to work
01:00:12.840 at the age of 10 and 11.
01:00:14.580 Their whole family depends on their income.
01:00:16.220 Major corporations need them to perform well.
01:00:20.760 That kind of pressure a child is not ill-equipped for
01:00:23.440 to say nothing of the fame that goes along with it.
01:00:25.920 How many child stars have actually ended up
01:00:28.800 doing quite well?
01:00:30.400 There are some, but most of them
01:00:31.700 end up getting out of Hollywood.
01:00:33.780 And I'm sure that's part of it as well.
01:00:35.160 It's like Jodie Foster, and that's it.
01:00:37.640 She's the exception that proves the rule, exactly.
01:00:39.700 She turned out extremely well.
01:00:41.200 But even she took time off.
01:00:42.520 Like, she went to Yale.
01:00:43.260 She got out of the business for like 15 years.
01:00:45.680 So yeah, it's kind of tragic to watch that.
01:00:50.220 Here is a different take.
01:00:51.720 link lauren who's part of our mk media podcast network and has a great show um he has a different
01:00:57.580 take and i always love checking in with link to see he's got his finger on the pulse when it comes
01:01:01.740 to cultural phenoms like ariana here's what he has to say in sot 15 i got a message this morning
01:01:08.500 from a mom whose daughter went to ariana grande's concert and came home and said she was so sad
01:01:13.280 she was concerned she felt like ariana's energy wasn't there when millions of her fans are saying
01:01:18.100 we're concerned. We love you. Are you okay? Tell us you're okay. She says nothing. But she has her
01:01:23.800 publicist go out there and tell the public, how dare you? How dare you question her? All of this 1.00
01:01:29.060 endless scrutiny. You can't play smart and dumb at the same time. She wants to put out a music 0.99
01:01:34.560 video on a Friday showing off how thin and skinny she is. And then two days later, her team is going 0.99
01:01:40.700 to put out a statement saying, how dare you talk about her weight? We're the bad guys. We're the
01:01:45.480 bad guys. Don't play me for a fool. Ariana Grande is a grown ass woman. I would bet my bottom dollar 1.00
01:01:52.860 that is not how she talks when she's in her business meetings. She's very shrewd. She's
01:01:57.720 very strong, but she wants to play this little petal, this little petal flower character where
01:02:03.000 she's pulled from piece to piece and she's barely hanging on by a thread. I think it's all propaganda.
01:02:08.920 I think it's all part of a marketing campaign. I'm just not buying any of it.
01:02:12.380 the name of that song is pedal, but you know, he, he may be onto something there, Glenn.
01:02:18.800 I definitely, I definitely think so. And it reminds me of the story we talked about first
01:02:23.180 with that, that Cambridge academic, she had been saying for several years now,
01:02:28.220 stop talking about my body. Stop talking about the body of female celebrities.
01:02:32.320 It's very degrading, whether you think it's good or bad, it's just not healthy. We shouldn't be 1.00
01:02:36.780 doing it i mean come on hollywood is an industry where your physical appearance plays an absolutely
01:02:43.740 crucial role in pretty much everything if you don't want people commenting on your physical
01:02:47.180 appearance don't don't go into hollywood but even if you you know are kind of sympathetic to that
01:02:52.540 we shouldn't be like micromanaging women's bodies or whatever sorry but if you stick a very well
01:02:57.920 known figure who has millions of fans in front of a in a music video that everybody sees and
01:03:04.680 It's actually quite shocking and horrifying to see a human being that thin who's not suffering from some kind of terminal disease.
01:03:13.820 People are going to talk about it.
01:03:15.560 But you're right.
01:03:16.340 Then they come out, as Link said, and he's like, how dare you?
01:03:19.320 This is not a matter for public discussion.
01:03:22.340 Actually, it really is because women like her and the way she looks influences huge numbers of young girls, especially all over the world. 1.00
01:03:30.880 And that is an extremely sickly and unhealthy look.
01:03:33.580 of course we should be talking about that and look i i'm sorry i was just saying to the team
01:03:38.560 in the break like if you want if you want to not have anybody comment on your looks there are so
01:03:45.480 many jobs in which that will absolutely be easy you know i worked as a telemarketer before i went
01:03:52.640 to law school i loved it it was actually i made a decent amount of money and i was not bad and um
01:03:57.940 nobody commented on my looks nobody had a thought on my looks no one could even see me it was on
01:04:02.640 the telephone. I could have kept doing something like that. But if you're going to put yourself
01:04:06.840 on camera for a living, you have to expect that some people are going to make comments
01:04:11.220 about your looks. I think the general bargain most people are thinking is they either won't
01:04:17.280 comment or to the extent they do comment, the majority of comments will be nice or neutral.
01:04:23.980 Concerned or concerned, not like malicious, but yes, I'm worried about her.
01:04:28.560 not like percentage won't be of course welcome to the internet right that's life it's not really a
01:04:35.800 you thing it's a it's a life thing and you really especially if you're going to be as big a star as
01:04:41.180 ariana grande like you're going to have to expect it thin fat they'd be saying the same things if
01:04:46.120 she were fat like it could whatever but her appearance is striking now it's striking when
01:04:52.460 you see somebody's bones protruding like what's happening with demi more you have to comment i
01:04:57.360 mean it's like what's i see it and if you don't call it out it does feel a little like normal
01:05:02.420 helping her normalize it which we do definitely do not want with a bunch of young impressionable
01:05:07.880 women who are her biggest fans that's what her fan base is all these young girls um okay so this 1.00
01:05:14.880 is actually a good lead-in into the perez hilton discussion so perez hilton two nights ago went on
01:05:24.260 tiktok and filmed himself it was a live stream and he was sort of writhing semi-dancing on camera
01:05:35.800 covered in blood he looked like ariana grande looked exactly exactly exactly right in terms
01:05:45.080 of the blood coverage at cover and he had everywhere he had one of those knives that we
01:05:51.600 all use to cut like an uncut loaf of bread, like a long, you know, 10 inch blade. I did not see a
01:05:59.760 serrated edge, but there may, there may have been before we show you the video. I'm just going to
01:06:04.040 tell you that it's disturbing. We're not showing you the raw video. We blurred it, but you can see
01:06:08.840 enough that it's, you get what happened. And, um, here it is. We took the sound out cause it's,
01:06:15.380 it's just extra disturbing he's taking this knife and he's rubbing it across his stomach his neck
01:06:22.840 the back of him and he's making sounds that sound almost sexual uh while he does it it doesn't it's
01:06:32.300 not exactly like cries of pain to me it sounded almost sexual and i think that's by design he's
01:06:38.960 trying to make it sound sort of titillating and the soundtrack on what was aired is as follows
01:06:45.280 goes, I'm surprised TikTok lets this stay. Fuck, he yells. You fucking ugh. Stay, he means online. 1.00
01:06:55.200 And he says, ah, ah, as he's cutting himself. Yeah, it hurts, but it feels so good too.
01:07:02.120 Then this is the part we have to discuss. I'm a fucking parasite loser, he says. 1.00
01:07:08.540 This is what you all wanted. Then he goes on to say, you know, it would be interesting to see 1.00
01:07:14.560 what happens after you die. Then he has three people join him on his live stream. Maybe this
01:07:19.520 is a show he does because three other people come on and seem absolutely shocked. They know him.
01:07:24.300 They clearly work with him to see what he's doing. They say, Perez, what the F are you doing?
01:07:29.960 And he says, committing suicide. And they say, no, no, no, that's not what we're doing here.
01:07:34.240 And he says, yes, it is. And then they called the authorities. The authorities came were in,
01:07:42.700 I don't know if we should use the word standoff, but they were in a situation outside the house
01:07:46.280 for quite some time where they thought it would only escalate the situation if they went in.
01:07:51.040 So they must have heard or known something to lead them to that conclusion and eventually did
01:07:55.180 go in after quite some time, got him, he was alive and brought him to the hospital where he
01:07:59.620 remains. His family says that they are relieved he's talking. They said he's able to communicate,
01:08:06.240 which has given them hope. They say information about his condition remains limited. He continues
01:08:11.920 to recover. Now, to me, Glenn, this is like, it's very sad. And I absolutely wish Perez well.
01:08:23.080 And I feel very sad about how he got here and what he did and that he felt that he had no other
01:08:29.760 option. But this is obviously the meltdown of a human being. But I also can't help but notice
01:08:36.540 that it is, in a way, the perfect period at the end of, not the end of a life, but at the end of
01:08:44.460 a chapter, a long chapter of what I hope will be a long life. And that chapter is life on the
01:08:50.900 internet, life almost solely on the internet, where rather than touching grass and walking
01:08:59.800 through woods and swimming in lakes, you are online all the time doing the lowest thing
01:09:10.480 possible for your spirit, which is viciously, viciously mocking random celebrities, right?
01:09:20.300 It's fine. I mean, they put themselves out there. Again, as I'm saying, it's their fair game,
01:09:24.940 But Perez Hilton really has made a business of going to the lowest places, outing various LGBT people, posting naked photos of like Jennifer Lawrence that she did not bless or sanction.
01:09:40.460 He's gone after so many huge celebs so pointedly that it's really impacted them.
01:09:45.740 Like Jennifer Aniston called him out and she's been the subject of nonstop tabloid coverage.
01:09:50.020 but he is the one who got to her and he's he's apologized for it many times only to then start
01:09:56.860 doing it again he's i'm not trying to demonize Perez in any way i'm saying this is his journey
01:10:02.000 and he himself seems to have you know he said he found god not long ago he had a bad case of
01:10:06.820 sepsis and said i found god and it's real and he found me but then he kind of goes back and i just
01:10:13.480 think there's a consequence to one's mental health in spending your life day after day after day in
01:10:19.700 a toxic industry online where the clicks the likes and all that are never going to be enough
01:10:25.580 for you and the vitriol will always feel like it outweighs the kindness yeah i could not agree more
01:10:34.260 he was one of the kind of ogs of the like who became an internet celebrity through this kind
01:10:40.220 of blog you know it was like a blog about uh celebrities about the entertainment industry
01:10:45.080 very gossipy lots of speculative blind items and stuff not exactly rewarding or fulfilling work
01:10:50.520 and as a result he became very polarizing so he's not only been on the internet for a long time he's
01:10:56.640 been doing a kind of work that as you say it's just kind of like the bottom of the barrel it
01:11:02.100 can't be very uh rewarding but then also it produces a lot of hate from people in hollywood
01:11:08.140 from people who think what you're doing is kind of scummy he's been at the middle of a lot of
01:11:11.320 internet controversies and when you have a life that is almost entirely emerged from the internet
01:11:18.600 first and then social media and it doesn't seem like you have much else going on while i think
01:11:24.420 the internet has been a net plus social media and people who are just always online especially in
01:11:31.320 the middle of things that they may not handle very well right like in in our profession you get
01:11:37.160 attacks and negative uh criticism and insults all the time that can be pretty vicious but you
01:11:42.680 develop a thin skin and it's not really the only thing you're doing thick skin yeah sorry a thick
01:11:48.180 skin uh and you learn how to to deal with it and not take it really personally he just seems to be
01:11:53.280 the kind of person who was such a child of the internet like almost inextricably linked with
01:11:57.580 the worst parts of it obviously i don't know what else is going on in his life i unfortunately saw
01:12:03.140 that video before it was blurred when it first came. I can't remember the last time I've seen
01:12:09.280 something so viscerally horrifying. I mean, that was a state of human existence that is very rare
01:12:15.800 and very difficult to get to. And I can't help also, as you suggested, think that there's a
01:12:21.640 strong component of it that is this social media, like just the dregs of the internet in which he's
01:12:29.340 resided for so long. Yes, yes. One must rescue oneself from that place. As he's spoken out over
01:12:36.980 the years about his depression, which he has admitted has been extreme, severe at times.
01:12:43.960 That was the time for people around him. And I understand his mother is still in the picture and
01:12:48.080 helps him raise his three kids who he had. They're his biological children who he had via surrogate.
01:12:52.140 um he's a gay man um his mother's still around like somebody needed to go to him and say Perez 0.62
01:13:00.640 you got to find a different way to make a living the internet is not for you you know it's it was 0.53
01:13:08.120 um Scarlett Johansson pretty sure Scarlett Johansson who when asked why why don't you
01:13:17.120 have a big like instagram or online presence said i i'm not strong enough for that like i'm too
01:13:24.620 tender hearted i thought i love that answer i totally get that that it's not for everyone
01:13:30.040 this business that we do certainly where you're in politics basically which is not not beanbag
01:13:35.300 his business you know celebrity commentary can get very ugly too these pr people are just as
01:13:43.900 vicious as they're the commentators are and they will cut they will cut you um it's not for everyone
01:13:50.500 and i think somebody needed to go to perez earlier and say perez there are other ways to make a
01:13:55.460 living you know he just moved from las vegas to miami where i guess he grew up and it's not his
01:14:00.600 real name but um i hope that's the message he walks away with and i hope he genuinely just
01:14:05.400 unplugs and says you know what the internet is a toxic stew that we are not forced to consume
01:14:10.820 you know without invading his privacy and whatever he wants to keep secret he has the right to i i
01:14:15.620 do think it's worthwhile to try and understand why that happened because it's not just that he
01:14:20.360 did something he was depressed or even ended up killing himself the state of human existence that
01:14:26.540 he was in that you watched if you watched that video that is something i mean genuinely terrifying
01:14:33.580 it's like you have to be pushed very very far mentally to do what he was doing and i do think
01:14:40.040 it's trying it's worth trying to figure out whether there's something about social media
01:14:43.340 and the internet and the entertainment industry that and and that the the the kind of internet
01:14:48.600 factory precincts in which he resided for so long that caused that because that was not just a
01:14:54.060 breakdown that was something i i don't know i haven't seen many things like that before
01:14:58.400 no it was it was a next level meltdown and cry for help yeah uh my team sent me the scarlett
01:15:04.960 johansson quote uh i honestly am too fragile a person to have social media i can't my ego is
01:15:12.400 too fragile my brain is too fragile i'm like a delicate flower i actually really appreciate that
01:15:18.840 good for her realizing that you know like yeah for accepting that and not needing the constant
01:15:24.860 attention of social media i i respect that me too totally um i'm sure it's he is not a delicate
01:15:33.440 flower, but it's one of the reasons I think Tucker no longer goes on social media because
01:15:39.160 though he's not a delicate flower, he doesn't enjoy consuming all the nonsense and the hatred.
01:15:45.940 And I think he wants to protect his brain too. He doesn't want to be like misguided or misled.
01:15:50.780 And he wants to curate his sources of information more. I don't think our brains are constructed or
01:15:56.760 designed or our mental health is to have this endless, you know, continuous, intense receipt
01:16:04.560 of extremely hateful and critical attacks on your character, on the things you said.
01:16:10.100 I do think protecting yourself from that is important because I just don't think our brains
01:16:14.080 are designed to handle that well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get asked that question all the time.
01:16:19.520 Like, how do you take it? How do you take it? And I say the truth, which is I don't enjoy it. And
01:16:24.140 it's, I am not immune to it. Like I, I'd love to be able to tell you like, oh, it doesn't affect
01:16:28.760 me at all. Whatever. No, it does affect me. I don't like it at all. It bothers me, but that's
01:16:33.920 kind of not the test in our industry. The test is, do you keep going or not? And you do have to keep
01:16:38.420 going. You must keep going. You cannot let people who are attacking you silence you. That's a
01:16:43.100 different story. Um, okay. So speaking of people in our industry, Whoopi Goldberg would like you
01:16:49.260 to know. She gets a huge paycheck, huge over at The View, but she's still just a common person
01:16:56.600 who works for a living. I'm not sure where she's going with this, but let's listen together.
01:16:59.920 SOT 23. What made you even want to get on that show? I needed a job. You know what I mean?
01:17:05.620 I needed a job. Barbara offered me a job. She said, we just lost one of the people on the show.
01:17:12.360 would you uh consider coming over and i had been doing a radio show yeah and i said absolutely
01:17:19.740 yeah and so she brought me over and it's like i've been crazy glued to that chair oh my gosh
01:17:26.500 what do you love about it because i mean first of all the show is called i love the check i can
01:17:33.280 only imagine what that check is no no you can't no trust me you can't you would be shot listen
01:17:42.580 you would be welcome to the view i can play her guys no yeah but as soon as they showed you that
01:17:49.080 check you'd be like what the that's incredible yeah i love it you know it is what it is
01:17:56.060 okay i can't totally tell there if she's suggesting it's incredibly large or incredibly
01:18:02.600 small. But Yashar Ali, independent journalist, is reporting that he did reporting on Whoopi not
01:18:09.920 long ago and she was getting paid six million dollars a year. So if she's lamenting it's too
01:18:17.320 strong, she's a fool. It's too it's too low. She's a fool. And if she's lamenting or bragging that 0.99
01:18:25.720 it's too big, she's unlikable. I mean, either way, this is not a great comment, but she actually
01:18:31.300 goes on to just suggest she understands the plight of working people out there right now, Glenn,
01:18:37.360 because she's just a working girl and she needs to work. This is the point that she was making
01:18:43.540 in this podcast. I work for a living and therefore I understand people who are having a hard time.
01:18:51.940 I appreciate that people are having a hard time. Me too. I work for a living. If I had all the
01:18:56.500 money in the world, I would not be here, okay? So I'm a working person, you know? My kid has to
01:19:01.320 feed her family. My great-granddaughter has to be fed by her family. I know it's hard out there. 0.96
01:19:06.720 I don't think she does. I don't think she does a thing. Glenn, your thoughts?
01:19:11.680 You know, I saw the Yashar Ali post too, and it was based on this Hollywood Reporter
01:19:15.880 article that summarized that interview you just showed, and it was very definitive that she was
01:19:20.740 saying, my salary is so incredibly abundant and gigantic at the view that you would be shocked
01:19:27.680 if you actually saw it. Like that was just the interpretation they assumed she meant. And
01:19:31.880 who goes around saying that? Like, you won't believe how much money I'm making. It would
01:19:37.420 shock you. I'm so rich. There was like, yeah, I'm so rich. I have infinite money. But the reason why
01:19:44.520 I wasn't sure that it was that was because about a year ago or a year and a half ago, and I noticed
01:19:49.020 this i don't know why i noticed things that are uh gross about the view she was talking at that
01:19:54.500 table and she was saying i understand the plight of the working of working people and the you know
01:20:01.240 groceries and the inflation that they're facing and someone's like how do you understand that you
01:20:06.560 haven't had that in 50 years and she's like you're absolutely wrong i i don't have to make enough
01:20:10.620 money here to to retire i have to work i have people to to support so she was there claiming
01:20:17.320 for my stature as an Oscar-winning woman,
01:20:20.240 a woman who used to be on the A-list in Hollywood,
01:20:22.540 I make very little here to the point where I can't even quit, 1.00
01:20:26.200 which also is quite disgusting 1.00
01:20:27.800 because she makes between $6 and $7 million. 1.00
01:20:30.800 And I'm not saying that that is the A-list a year 0.86
01:20:34.440 for just sitting at that table doing an hour show.
01:20:36.660 I'm not saying that is an A-list kind of salary 1.00
01:20:39.940 like Jennifer Anderson making $30 million, whatever.
01:20:42.660 But if you're going to go on the air and say,
01:20:44.960 I make $6 and $7 million,
01:20:45.940 dollars which makes me part of the working class to the point where I understand their plight 0.98
01:20:50.520 when you've been a so I don't know which is worse Megan was she boasting about how much money she
01:20:55.320 makes or lamenting that she didn't make more even though it's like so much more than anybody ever 0.99
01:21:00.380 makes yeah no I I just watching the whole context it sounds like she was bitching that it was too
01:21:06.620 small and Yashara is a good reporter if he's got it a couple years ago at six million dollars a
01:21:11.680 year that's probably about where it is right she's been doing it for 20 years so I think she's not
01:21:15.580 you know, in the, in the poor house, I think she's doing just fine, but I guess thinks she's
01:21:21.080 entitled to more. I would, I would beg to differ. I mean, it's just the ratings of that show do not
01:21:26.000 support paying her anymore. She can't, no one there can solo. It's an ensemble cast. No one's
01:21:31.440 running to offer whoopie her own talk show. Nevermind a Sonny Hauston who's never been able
01:21:36.280 to single in her life. Um, so you know, you're making, if you're making $6 million a year,
01:21:41.220 audience yeah yeah exactly i just i i just just go back and watch that one if you haven't seen
01:21:46.640 it from 18 months ago where she was like i i am part of the working class i understand the
01:21:50.900 struggles of working people because i also have to come into work every day to make a paycheck i
01:21:55.280 also can't afford to retire and it's the most out of touch thing you've ever heard anybody say
01:22:01.120 it's so ridiculous except perhaps for megan markle's comments about how small her castle is
01:22:08.240 and we should feel sorry for her. And that's what I want to do next. So this isn't a Meghan 0.95
01:22:13.420 Markle soundbite, but it is a latest development and a story that we've been following here on the
01:22:20.140 show about Meghan Markle trying to make herself into the new Martha Stewart. As you know, Maureen
01:22:26.780 Callahan and I did a whole parody of her attempts to do this and her ridiculous Netflix show with 0.98
01:22:32.080 love Megan. And in it, we made one pot pasta that she promoted in that series. And we had no trouble 0.93
01:22:41.240 finding the recipe because we just went to Martha Stewart's website and it was right there. It's one
01:22:45.560 of her most famous recipes, which Megan Markle very clearly stole and like maybe added one 0.99
01:22:51.480 ingredient to call her own. We put the two recipes side by side. They were identical. I mean, it was
01:22:56.180 the same thing. So Martha Stewart might not like that. You know, she's like she's a tough old bee. 1.00
01:23:03.100 And I say that respectfully. And she got asked about Meghan Markle by People magazine and revealed
01:23:13.560 that the two of them had just been at a dinner together, not like one on one, but they were both
01:23:17.840 invited to the same function where there was dinner. And listen to this. I had dinner with
01:23:23.500 Meghan Markle the other night well she was at the same table uh so I can't say I she wasn't my
01:23:28.860 guest I was a guest we were both guests at a dinner party in in California and she had just
01:23:33.860 gotten back from the palace and I think I didn't I didn't talk to her really more than to say a
01:23:39.180 couple words but but I know she was talking about it if you're an actress it's hard to then
01:23:43.860 transition to a princess and then from a princess into a homemaking guru on a television show it
01:23:51.300 doesn't sort of follow so go from there uh shots fired glenn totally you know my perception of
01:24:01.300 megan markle and my knowledge of her comes almost exclusively from maureen sullivan's show because
01:24:06.700 there is nobody for whom callahan maureen sullivan was a great actress back in the day yeah yeah
01:24:12.660 she won academy award i think i don't know what's going on in the brain today but yeah maureen
01:24:16.600 maureen callahan because there's nobody for whom maureen has more contempt than megan markle
01:24:21.280 And it's just like, I just sit there. It's so cathartic. It just like seeps into my veins.
01:24:27.240 So it's so I think everybody has come to that point where just Meghan Markle for whatever
01:24:31.880 reason subscribe to the nerve immediately. By the way, as we go into the weekend,
01:24:35.000 it's especially a great time in the summer to listen to Maureen. Listen to the nerve. Keep
01:24:38.140 going. Yeah. And it's actually it. The reason it's good to watch is because it combines reporting
01:24:43.980 with with just the most acerbic, insightful, well-expressed and hilarious cultural criticism.
01:24:51.280 of hatred directed at all the people who most deserve it. There's never been someone she's
01:24:55.300 attacked where I was like, I don't think she should be attacking that person. That person
01:24:57.880 seems okay. No, me neither. And the other thing that's so great about Maureen is she's very
01:25:02.600 intelligent. She has a great vocabulary. Like she comes at it from like this elevated level,
01:25:06.960 but with no gloves on whatsoever. So there is something, it's like shoot it in my veins.
01:25:11.520 This is what I think being addicted to heroin would feel like, only very much healthier.
01:25:16.560 Yeah. And she's a real reporter, as you said. So it's not like she's just ranting and raving
01:25:19.980 with speculation it's always so well researched too so it's actually reliable celebrity cultural
01:25:25.620 criticism yeah the best show and it definitely has turned me into a megan markle there's before
01:25:31.100 i just couldn't resist you know it's just so persuasive but don't you think i think it's
01:25:36.580 actually kind of cool that martha stewart who's now in her 80s she just doesn't give an f glenn 1.00
01:25:42.500 she's like i'm gonna cut this bitch and i don't care if you if you don't like it she clearly 1.00
01:25:46.360 mocking her she got back from the palace and she was talking about it oh back from the palace 0.99
01:25:51.960 and how difficult it is to try to jump from these different roles right into making yourself a
01:25:58.900 homemaking guru and was telegraphing to us all it ain't as lazy as it looks and she's failing
01:26:05.980 like that's really what she was saying i that's my martha stewart decoder for you yeah i've seen
01:26:12.740 comments from her similar not maybe as harsh about megan markle because i don't think she respects
01:26:18.280 the fact that megan markle is a worthy competitor of everything martha stewart has done and i love 0.93
01:26:23.880 martha stewart because she is just so direct as you said she's a very i mean she went to prison
01:26:29.980 and she came out and built this whole second career seemed to do very well in it obviously 0.99
01:26:34.620 built a gigantic business too yeah she is not somebody to play around with and and that passive 1.00
01:26:39.460 aggressive criticism. Megan Markle, that was so enjoyable and so deserved. I wonder if she might
01:26:47.620 be a listener to this show or to the nerve and or to the nerve. We've got to find it out. We need to
01:26:52.120 know more. Glenn, so great to see you. Always a pleasure, my friend. Always good to be with you,
01:26:56.740 Megan. Talk to you soon. Okay. When we come back, a powerful legal story that you're going to want
01:27:03.820 to hear about. This woman, my next guest, is a surrogate pregnant with another couple's 0.95
01:27:11.700 biological baby, and they wanted to abort that baby, and she has refused. That's next. 0.97
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01:28:04.060 friendly local team and they will do everything they can to help you. And maybe you will be
01:28:08.600 sharing your story with them soon too. relieffactor.com. This next story is extraordinary.
01:28:19.820 McKenna West agreed to become a surrogate for a couple that needed her help. But at 20
01:28:26.020 weeks, the baby she was carrying was diagnosed with HLHS, which stands for hypoplastic left heart
01:28:33.860 syndrome, a serious condition in which the left side of the heart does not develop properly.
01:28:39.620 The intended parents of this little baby wanted McKenna to have an abortion, but she refused.
01:28:47.780 And now she is in a shocking legal fight with this baby's biological parents. McKenna joins us now,
01:28:55.180 along with her attorney, Lincoln Wilson, and Lila Rose of Live Action, a group devoted as Lila is
01:29:01.440 to the cause of life. Welcome to you all. So great to have you here. Lila, great to see you again.
01:29:09.400 So McKenna, I have not heard a story like this, I have to say. Did you know this couple when you
01:29:16.920 agreed to become a surrogate for them? No, we met through an agency, a surrogacy agency.
01:29:23.600 okay and as i understand it you did sign a document saying that if the parents wanted
01:29:33.300 at some point to abort the pregnancy they could is that is that right um yeah going into this we
01:29:41.460 had talked about it when we first met um and i asked them kind of their views on termination
01:29:47.640 and it was a reassuring conversation that really they wanted a baby. They weren't exactly sure
01:29:56.920 what decision they would make if something came up, but they ultimately just wanted to be parents.
01:30:02.440 And so I felt confident moving forward with them that termination would not be their first choice.
01:30:10.120 Okay. So the contract said they had the right to do it, but you, based on your conversations,
01:30:14.760 didn't foresee them actually doing it. And then the baby, was it a 20-week amniocentesis? Is that
01:30:21.760 what happened? There was no amniocentesis. It was an ultrasound that the cardiac defect was
01:30:28.100 identified a couple of days after 20 weeks. So then they said they wanted to abort their child,
01:30:36.600 but you are pro-life. And so what did that bring up for you?
01:30:41.640 It brought up a lot of fear. And I just didn't know what to do. I felt very trapped
01:30:55.560 due to this contract and felt like I had no voice. But I knew in my soul and my heart that
01:31:03.600 I wanted to protect this little boy um and thankfully my brother was um it was put on his
01:31:14.500 heart to to call me and just speak hope and courage into me um and he and his wife even
01:31:23.540 offered to adopt this baby if it meant me not having to go through this late-term abortion
01:31:30.140 wow right because at this point the baby's almost five months in utero and this is you know you
01:31:38.780 start to feel the baby moving it's like this is a very special time for a mother and i can't imagine
01:31:45.900 what it would be like to be told that you must abort the baby like that you must yeah so you
01:31:51.720 didn't um which is extraordinary and it must have taken a lot of a lot of prayers and courage on your
01:31:58.260 part. And now it's devolved into a legal battle. So let me bring in Lincoln at this point,
01:32:05.180 your lawyer. So Lincoln, was the legal battle, did the parents try to force the abortion? Has
01:32:12.560 a court ruled on that? Because McKenna did not abort the baby. She is pregnant right now.
01:32:18.180 No, they didn't try to force an abortion in court. What really happened was that after McKenna had 1.00
01:32:23.320 resisted and they'd put on essentially a pressure campaign to force her to abort,
01:32:27.320 They even enlisted her own prior counsel to serve her with a demand of $250,000 with a process server in the middle of the night.
01:32:37.620 And when they were unsuccessful in doing that, what they did was they pivoted to California, and they filed a lawsuit in California.
01:32:44.020 Even though the contract requires any litigation in Alaska where McKenna lives, they said, we're filing suit in California, and we want an expedited judgment of parentage.
01:32:54.360 And our basic understanding is that what they want to do is if they're declared the parents, and unfortunately the California court did declare them to be the parents, then they can make the decision about medical care, and they can decide when this baby's born that they won't give him any care, and he'll be dead in a matter of days without it.
01:33:12.300 McKenna is unequivocally willing to fight for his life, though.
01:33:14.800 Oh, my God. Lila, we see this all the time in these cases where there's some sort of medical deformity, quote, defect. I'm using air quotes around those words with an unborn child where, you know, parents choose to abort their child.
01:33:33.580 but this, this is a much trickier situation. And McKenna held the line. What do you make of it?
01:33:40.340 I mean, what do you say to the people out there who aren't that tuned into choice life, all that
01:33:44.040 issue who say, well, the poor child wasn't going to have any life anyway. So the parents are doing
01:33:49.780 something humane here. Well, first of all, Megan, thank you for covering this. McKenna is a hero.
01:33:55.620 Huge shout out to Lincoln for ADF support of this incredibly important case on this baby. I mean,
01:34:00.800 this is a life at stake. And the reality is, I mean, the hospital that does deal with cases like
01:34:06.520 this little boy's heart condition can get up to an 80% success rate with a life-saving surgery
01:34:11.720 that can give this boy decades of life, of a wonderful life ahead of him. Medical technology
01:34:16.620 is amazing. We have ways to care for life, to help life, and medicine should never be used to
01:34:21.940 destroy life. But because we have abortion on demand in America through all nine months,
01:34:26.600 We have this search and destroy mission, these search and destroy missions that happen, Megan, in health care where they look for a defect. 0.78
01:34:33.320 They look for any problem with the baby, a genetic condition like, you know, trisomy 18, Down syndrome. 0.70
01:34:39.280 And then they say, well, we should terminate so we can we throw away life that is seen as inconvenient or not perfect, which is eugenics, by the way.
01:34:47.820 Eugenics is trying to create the perfect race, the perfect genetic code.
01:34:52.020 And this is what's happening here. 0.81
01:34:53.780 it's not, he's not perfect. So we should let him die or otherwise destroy him. So I'm really proud 0.99
01:34:59.600 of McKenna. I think this case is so important. And I think that the fact that surrogacy contracts
01:35:05.100 are basically slavery contracts today. Like I, I own your body now I can do with it as I please.
01:35:10.700 And the baby you're pregnant with is basically my property too. And I can kill that baby at will. 1.00
01:35:15.740 It's completely unethical and we shouldn't be allowing this any longer. 0.99
01:35:18.880 Oh, I mean, as for this particular condition, our understanding is there have been cases of
01:35:27.000 children who have lived with this condition. You have to have at least three operations
01:35:30.300 when you're very young on your heart. But we found the case of Ben, who was treated at CHOP,
01:35:37.160 Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. This is from February of 2015. He's about four in this video.
01:35:42.080 let's watch. We went for the routine ultrasound and they checked everything. They said we see a
01:35:50.640 heart defect. They said his condition was hypoplastic left heart syndrome and it was
01:35:57.080 really a very bleak picture that they painted for us. A part of me gave up hope that I would have
01:36:02.960 a baby to bring home. Benjamin's diagnosis is hypoplastic left heart syndrome. It's essentially
01:36:09.160 a condition where the heart that normally has two pumping chambers, one to send blood to the lungs
01:36:14.760 and one to send blood to the rest of the body, only has one chamber, which is the right side of
01:36:20.400 the heart. Our main goal is to convert that pumping chamber so it really serves to pump
01:36:25.780 blood to the entire body. So we're talking about a very complex surgery. You have one chance to do
01:36:32.280 it right. And after that, hopefully you have two more operations to get this child to a healthy
01:36:39.100 and productive childhood. I'd like to think that although I don't have my own children, I have
01:36:43.840 hundreds of them. And Benjamin is one of them. It's amazing to see him as just a normal kid.
01:36:51.340 You would never guess he has heart disease. People will tell us, you know, if we didn't know that he
01:36:57.380 had a heart condition, we would never believe it. He's very active, very normal, and he's very
01:37:07.900 bright, has a great sense of humor, and is just an amazing kid. McKenna, have you talked about
01:37:16.980 cases like that with the birth parents or someone representing the birth parents or not that,
01:37:21.400 biological parents. Yes. After the diagnosis was made, I spent that weekend watching videos like
01:37:29.460 that on YouTube. I personally know somebody. She'll be 16 in a couple of months with the
01:37:36.420 same diagnosis. And it's not this hopeless diagnosis whatsoever. And that's part of why
01:37:44.080 I want to fight so hard for this little guy is, yes, the beginning isn't going to be easy.
01:37:50.240 there's surgeries, there's, you know, it's complicated, but he absolutely can go on to
01:37:57.700 live a full life and he deserves that opportunity. And have you spoken with them? Like, did they
01:38:03.860 respond to you directly or did you hear their justification? Everything, once the diagnosis
01:38:09.280 was made, started going through the agency liaison. So I have not spoken to them directly since
01:38:16.260 um, April 17th, um, or that weekend. Um, but you just got word. Yeah. Did you get word from
01:38:25.540 the surrogacy agency that they wanted you to abort? Yes. They're the liaison is who called,
01:38:31.460 um, to tell me and their fears are that he's going to have a horrible quality of life and
01:38:40.760 just be born into pain and suffering which i do not agree with at all and now now we're in a fight
01:38:50.180 lincoln about because she's having the baby now that decision has been made yeah um now we're in
01:38:57.240 a fight over where will the baby be born because this may have direct effects on whether he gets
01:39:02.000 care and who will have the decision-making power once he is born and then there's the question of
01:39:07.580 who will raise this baby if he does live after birth as a result of medical interventions or
01:39:15.240 otherwise. We're going to pick it up there after we take a quick break. More with McKenna Lincoln
01:39:20.580 and Lila Rose right after this. What a story. We will be right back. And before we go to break,
01:39:25.960 just want to remind you, it's youtube.com slash Megan Kelly. You can hit join. You can get
01:39:31.380 exclusive content there. And today we will be dropping our second installment, our behind the
01:39:38.820 scenes tour documentary. Be right back. Every season change seems to come with the same
01:39:45.240 realization, a closet full of clothes and absolutely nothing to wear, right? Haven't you
01:39:50.380 been there? Between work, travel, family commitments, and everything else, you might not have the time
01:39:54.940 or frankly, the desire to spend hours and hours shopping. That is why I'm so excited to tell you
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01:40:45.380 so they know we sent you. Hey everyone, it's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news.
01:40:53.760 I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM.
01:40:57.220 It's called the Megyn Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth, unfiltered, with no agenda, and no apologies.
01:41:03.360 Along with the Megyn Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jashinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more.
01:41:12.720 It's bold, no BS news, only on the Megyn Kelly Channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.
01:41:19.320 on may 22nd 2002 more than a year after chandra levy disappeared a man named philip palmer walks
01:41:30.220 his dog in rock creek park palmer is a furniture maker who has collected antlers and animal bones
01:41:37.100 since he was a boy so he thinks nothing of leaving the trail and working his way down a slope
01:41:43.280 That morning, he sees a scrap of red fabric,
01:41:47.320 then something pale and rounded in the leaves,
01:41:50.200 about the size of a silver dollar.
01:41:52.660 He brushes the leaves away.
01:41:54.900 What he finds is a human skull.
01:41:58.200 He ties his dog's blue leash to a branch to mark the spot,
01:42:02.100 climbs back to a nearby road,
01:42:04.320 borrows a phone from a construction worker,
01:42:06.660 and calls 911.
01:42:09.040 Here's a bit of that phone call.
01:42:10.540 I was walking my dog in wood this morning, and I came across a human skull.
01:42:17.060 That was a clip from our MK Confidential series airing this week on Chandra Levy of the moment
01:42:23.820 her remains were finally found, and that was an important moment in that investigation.
01:42:28.320 A lot of people don't remember that aspect. As the story disappeared on 9-11-2001,
01:42:35.080 she went missing May 1st, 2001. We dive into what happened next in the investigation tonight and
01:42:42.220 tomorrow, an arrest and a conviction, but that was not the end of the story. This is part of a new
01:42:49.580 series that we have launched called MK Confidential, where we take on one case per week. We started
01:42:55.620 with JonBenet Ramsey, we did Klaus von Bülow, and now we are in the middle of Chandra Levy. You can
01:43:00.460 join us for this coverage, uh, already this week at the, each episode is only about 30 minutes long.
01:43:06.080 So it's easy to catch up if you're not there yet. And, uh, we will see out Chandra Levy
01:43:10.260 over the next few nights and then start another case on Monday. You can check it, uh, on our
01:43:16.120 Megan Kelly show podcast feeds and on our YouTube channel every weeknight this summer. Uh, okay.
01:43:22.000 Back with me now, McKenna West, her attorney, Lincoln Wilson, who is with the great Alliance
01:43:26.840 Defending Freedom, and Lila Rose of Live Action. So before we went to break, Lincoln, we were
01:43:32.700 wondering what the legal posture of this case is now, because obviously McKenna's having the baby.
01:43:38.940 So now they're fighting over where she delivers the baby, and then what? Who controls the care 0.96
01:43:46.040 that he gets when he's born, or where the care will be provided? So there have been fights over
01:43:52.700 where the care will be provided, but now it seems that it's likely that it's going to be happening
01:43:57.140 in Texas, where McKenna is now, at a hospital that has a 100% success rate in providing the surgery.
01:44:03.280 The big fight now is who's going to control that care, and the other side obtained a judgment in
01:44:08.120 California that says they are the parents and that they get to make those decisions, and that
01:44:13.020 judgment will become effective on the child's birth. We are fighting to overturn that judgment
01:44:18.780 And then also to say that while the court is working out those questions, really, the surgery needs to happen and McKenna needs to be making these decisions, because if the baby dies and then she wins on an appeal, you know, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.
01:44:35.380 You can't unring the bell at that point.
01:44:37.700 It's really like the biggest case of irreparable harm that you could ever see.
01:44:41.200 yeah but now does that mean undoing that california judgment or what how are you going
01:44:48.340 to get a ruling that allows mckenna to make those decisions in the way you just outlined
01:44:51.860 that's part of it um part of it is undoing the judgment and we have appeals that are working
01:44:57.260 our way through the california courts and up to the u.s supreme court that raise some important
01:45:01.960 questions about due process for one the attempt to bring mckenna into california court on two
01:45:07.540 day's notice and finding that she actually consented to jurisdiction. And also the fact
01:45:12.340 that the California courts are deciding what they admit are life and death questions for this child
01:45:17.380 and this child has no representation in the proceedings. We think that's a due process
01:45:22.240 problem. That's what I was going to ask you next. Does he have any rights? Does this baby boy have
01:45:28.420 any rights at all? I should hope so. And California law actually says that a child, an unborn child
01:45:35.440 is a person under California law if that child is going to be born. We think the answer is the same 0.98
01:45:40.340 under the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution, and we're going to be taking that
01:45:44.320 issue up to the U.S. Supreme Court if we have to, but right now we're in the California courts.
01:45:48.960 And in the meantime, we're hoping that we can get relief that ensures that he gets the care that he
01:45:53.580 needs when he's born so that he stays alive and that there's not an opportunity to leave him to
01:45:58.160 die just minutes after he comes into the world. Has anyone indicated to your side, you, McKenna,
01:46:06.760 or anybody else on your side, Lincoln or anybody else, that what they intend to do
01:46:12.700 with the baby's health care once he's born? They've been very coy about it. They've actually
01:46:18.380 told us that we're not entitled to know what their decision making is, but there's enough clues. For
01:46:23.580 one, they immediately sought an abortion. They aggressively sought an abortion. For another,
01:46:29.560 they have kept asking questions about palliative care, which is basically no care, just let the
01:46:34.980 child die, even though there's 100% success rate in giving this surgery. And last, they're still
01:46:40.500 suing McKenna in Alaska, demanding that she be held liable for hundreds of thousands of dollars
01:46:46.420 in damages because she refused to get an abortion. They're saying because she breached their
01:46:51.020 contractual requirement to get an abortion, she should have to pay them. We don't think that this
01:46:55.060 shows a commitment to actually letting this child live. And that now they're going to be saddled
01:46:59.620 with this defective child. Is that basically the argument? Yeah, I think there's a tendency in this
01:47:07.060 situation to treat children as a product. You paid to get something. It was defective. It wasn't what
01:47:12.840 you wanted. So send it back. Give me a new one. We think that's repugnant. We think it's offensive
01:47:18.320 to um california law we think it's offensive to to federal law and we don't want to see it stand
01:47:23.380 is there an issue about health care insurance like if they're if the baby's born in texas with
01:47:30.040 mckenna lincoln and the parents say well we don't have we don't have the insurance to cover all
01:47:34.940 these surgeries is that is that an argument or no because would the state provide those surgeries
01:47:39.620 i i don't think there's any question that there are the resources out there to get this child
01:47:44.460 the care that he needs. I can speak from my own personal experience. Our child was born
01:47:49.480 with a cardiac condition and ended up in the NICU for three months and we had to get surgery.
01:47:54.420 And we got unbelievable care and unbelievable resources to support that. And it was absolutely
01:47:58.780 worth it. And that's why it's very personal for me to be engaged in this fight, going after the
01:48:03.640 same thing here. And I know there's abundant resources that Lila and her team have provided
01:48:08.660 and would provide to save this child's life. Well, that's the thing, Lila, there's literally
01:48:14.280 not someone in the country who fights more for life than you. So you must know people or have
01:48:20.740 donors who would help McKenna with these surgeries or help her get this baby through those first
01:48:25.740 challenging. Well, it looks like it could be a couple of years, but as we saw with Ben's story,
01:48:30.660 it really is survivable. Yes. Yes. And there are thousands of pro-life advocates who want to help
01:48:37.000 McKenna. There are thousands more who want to even adopt. I mean, the waiting lists right now
01:48:42.560 to adopt are long, including families that are willing to adopt children, newborns that have
01:48:47.220 special needs or special care is needed for them. And as McKenna even said, her brother has stepped
01:48:53.060 up heroically to say, I want to even adopt and help this baby. So the problem is not that people
01:48:58.360 don't want to help. There are tons of people in line to help right now. The problem is that there
01:49:04.000 is a couple who believe that this baby is their property and that they can kill this baby or
01:49:08.780 ordered this baby to be left to die without care because this baby in their eyes is defected and 0.94
01:49:14.400 unwanted to them. And they don't want another family to care for this baby and help this baby
01:49:20.400 live. That's the issue. And that violates this baby's fundamental human rights, which is why
01:49:25.060 I'm so grateful for the hard work of Lincoln and the team at ADF, because this case deserves to go
01:49:29.120 to the Supreme Court and to be won decisively in favor of this baby's right to life and McKenna.
01:49:34.420 so so what would be the ideal ruling then lincoln like what your what's your plan what court are
01:49:41.340 you going to go into and what are you going to ask for specifically because the the baby's due
01:49:45.480 soon right yeah we're fighting in three different courts right now um there's the california
01:49:51.300 proceeding that the other side filed there's an alaska case that mckenna filed and we just
01:49:56.140 learned that the other side has now filed a case in texas again in violation of the contract um
01:50:01.600 seeking to get a decision for them. We don't. Lincoln froze, but your due date is September
01:50:08.200 2nd McKenna, right? So that's, I mean, that's coming up and what's your ideal. I'll ask you
01:50:14.140 to phrase it not legally, but what is your ideal ruling that you would get? Um, I just want this
01:50:19.740 little boy to be able to get surgery. Um, cause that's what he needs. So you want him to get the
01:50:26.620 care that he needs. And if you, if you had your way, would you then have your brother adopt this
01:50:33.240 baby? Really just any loving household, loving parents, whether that were me, my brother and
01:50:41.980 my sister-in-law or another family that, you know, I'm not aware of right now. I just want
01:50:46.980 him to have parents fighting in his corner. Have you found out, like, are the parents at all
01:50:54.900 um, entertaining that idea that somebody, you know, clearly they didn't want this baby when
01:51:01.380 they found out about the heart defect. So this is a solution that's, it's not what the one they
01:51:06.180 wanted, but they, they don't have to have anything to do with this baby, but they're not interested
01:51:10.060 in that. Not from what I understand at all, which is really unfortunate. This is so, this is just so
01:51:17.900 fraught. I'm sure this is keeping you awake day and night. Are you, how are you feeling McKenna?
01:51:22.200 this must have been very stressful for you. Yeah. Physically, I feel pretty good, but it is
01:51:29.620 stressful, especially as I am in my final month now of pregnancy and there's still
01:51:36.560 so much happening and developing. But I genuinely believe that God has orchestrated this and
01:51:46.920 this little guy is going to get what he needs and what he deserves, which is a chance at life.
01:51:52.680 We've done too much. We've come too far for another outcome. So I just, that's really what
01:51:59.380 I'm praying for. Lila, I was just online before we got started today and I was on Instagram and
01:52:08.700 I saw my old friend and colleague from Fox News, Brett Baer, with the following post. Let's watch
01:52:16.320 Hey, everybody. Thanks for the birthday wishes. I appreciate it. Big five, six today. And I am off. I am taking my son to Ireland to play in a father-son golf tournament. It's kind of the last hurrah before he heads to college in a few weeks.
01:52:37.100 happy birthday to brett bear by the way but the reason i play that as you might know
01:52:42.740 is paul bear who was born in june of 2007 and i was very close to brett at the time
01:52:51.860 had multiple heart defects he has a condition um that's that's the the short form is um hold
01:53:01.260 on a second let me give you the actual name of it it's called d transposition of the great
01:53:06.620 arteries or DTGA in which the heart's two main arteries are reversed, which causes oxygen poor
01:53:13.280 blood to circulate through the body instead of being sent to the lungs for oxygen. Paul was also
01:53:17.600 born. So, so he had that, that was his primary defect, but he had a total of five complex
01:53:22.980 congenital heart defects. He was also born with two holes in his heart and interrupted aortic arch
01:53:30.320 and an abdominal coronal artery.
01:53:34.340 So Paul had multiple serious, very serious, complex heart defects.
01:53:41.080 And this heart problem is usually fatal in the first few days, weeks, or months of life
01:53:49.000 because of that oxygen-poor blood that circulates throughout the body.
01:53:53.560 Babies do require emergency medical treatment soon after birth.
01:53:57.020 And I remember when Paul was born, uh, Brett sent on an email and that the subject was
01:54:02.780 not what we expected.
01:54:04.700 And we were all stunned and scared.
01:54:07.360 And we all thought that Brett and Amy might lose their baby and they didn't lose their
01:54:13.940 baby.
01:54:14.460 That, that baby is the son that Paul, any emotional is that that baby is the son that
01:54:22.060 Brett and Amy are delivering off to college, um, before next month.
01:54:26.640 And he hasn't had it easy. He's had at least 12 surgeries, I think more than 12 surgeries. He had an emergency surgery not long ago that was very scary. That family, not for one second, would regret Paul being born into this world and all the moments they've had with Paul through thick and thin, through the difficult surgeries and the scary times and the great times on the golf course and otherwise.
01:54:53.980 I just think, Lila, too many people feel overwhelmed by these scary diagnoses.
01:55:00.420 And we also have a media that refuses to highlight stories like that of little Ben and Paul Bear.
01:55:07.940 You're so right, Megan.
01:55:09.240 I mean, life is worth fighting for.
01:55:12.000 And a child's life is worth fighting for the most.
01:55:15.580 This is an innocent, defenseless little one that's entrusted to adults.
01:55:20.780 And what's the responsibility of adults?
01:55:22.540 You know, how can we build a civilization that's strong and healthy?
01:55:25.620 You've got to care about kids and you've got to put their needs first.
01:55:29.080 And sometimes that requires sacrifice, but there's often a way.
01:55:32.740 And that's the power of medical technology and coming alongside families.
01:55:35.680 And it's amazing what we've been able to accomplish with new medical technologies.
01:55:39.560 But regardless of the ability of medical technologies, a life's always worth fighting for, you know, one way or another.
01:55:46.080 You never leave someone to just die, especially a baby.
01:55:48.540 You never go and kill a child in utero.
01:55:51.080 And I will say, Megan, the only reason we're in this predicament that McKenna is in this extremely unjust and abusive situation. 0.99
01:55:58.200 I mean, it's legal abuse that they're threatening her with. 1.00
01:56:00.340 I think it's physical abuse to try to demand her to have a late term abortion.
01:56:04.060 The reason this is happening is because abortion on demand is legal still in our country.
01:56:10.460 I mean, there's some states that protect life, but we have the majority of states now that permit abortion.
01:56:15.280 And what is abortion? It's the direct and intentional killing of an innocent human life.
01:56:18.920 and under no circumstance is it acceptable to kill an innocent human life but that's what many
01:56:25.000 laws in our states permit and that is the crux of the problem here and that's why mckenna is in
01:56:30.640 this predicament that's why this little boy's life is at risk so we need to change our legal system
01:56:34.680 we need to shift our culture here and i'm really proud of mckenna and the work of adf and the work
01:56:39.460 of live action because that's what we're working here to do together i mean there's no there's no
01:56:45.720 question that abortion is the killing of a life and if like you can debate i always say this you
01:56:50.880 know you can say that you are pro-choice and you're in favor of the mother making that decision
01:56:56.820 and all that stuff you we cannot have the debate unless you admit that like you have to admit that
01:57:01.940 that's obviously a life then you then you can make your argument about i i should be allowed
01:57:06.440 to end it i'm the mother i i created we can have that debate we've been having that debate for a
01:57:11.180 long long time but there's just no debate that that's a life there's just there isn't that is
01:57:15.620 a life that you are ending if you have an abortion. So McKenna, what happens now? What if you don't
01:57:22.480 get the legal relief that you're looking for? What if you get a judgment saying you have to
01:57:28.560 have this baby in California? Is that a possibility that you might not be able to have the baby at
01:57:35.480 the Texas facility with all the life-saving measures that are available there? Not at this
01:57:40.660 point. Um, traveling after 36 weeks is really never recommended by OBGYNs. Um, okay. And so
01:57:49.820 good. So you're staying in Texas, Texas. Yeah. And what if the, a ruling comes down that what
01:57:57.820 happens to this boy when he's born is up entirely to these parents and he is born and he is not
01:58:06.960 on your chest. He's not bonding with you. He's not having the skin to skin. Instead,
01:58:13.540 he's being given palliative care as he dies. I pray that if they are the ones who make the
01:58:22.640 decision once he's born, that simply seeing him and realizing just how real this baby boy is.
01:58:29.440 I've been feeling him for months now. He's very, very real to me.
01:58:33.500 um i just pray that their hearts would soften they're the ones making that decision when they
01:58:40.900 see this little guy and um that they want to fight as hard as as i am and other people would
01:58:47.940 absolutely be willing to fight for him yes i i'm i'm praying for those parents right right right
01:58:55.540 right now tonight i think we should all pray for those parents to see to see it this way to see
01:59:01.640 him born, to feel the connection and to understand that getting him the help he needs is the right
01:59:06.380 thing to do. And that there'll be a ton of people who I'm sure Lila Rose, you would help them
01:59:11.340 too. If they said that they, that they, that they want to be the ones to shepherd him through these
01:59:16.280 surgeries and so on. And this can still have a happy ending. I'm praying God that it happens.
01:59:21.280 McKenna, please keep us updated. Please stay well and take care of yourself. Lila, thanks for
01:59:25.700 the story and for all the great work you do. Thank you so much, Megan. Thank you, Megan.
01:59:31.640 wow wow that's like that's heavy that is a heavy story these you know the the parents it's like you
01:59:42.340 clearly they've they desperately wanted a child you don't go to a surrogate unless you desperately
01:59:46.640 want a child and i understand there are a lot of families i don't know what their financial
01:59:51.840 situation is but there are a lot of families who don't have the financial means to take on a massive
01:59:56.200 health care battle that's a whole other problem in this country that deserves discussion but in
02:00:01.120 this particular case, it sounds like they will be helped and will be provided with the resources to
02:00:06.440 get this little boy through. So maybe that will soften them on this. I don't know. They're
02:00:12.420 anonymous. I don't know their names. I don't know really more than I've told you about their end of
02:00:16.940 the story. They have a contract that's on their side and they wish to enforce it. I'm sure they're
02:00:22.060 angry that it won't be enforced, but they brought another person into this decision.
02:00:27.360 and there's a written contract and then there's your contract with God and there are the rights
02:00:35.360 of this child whether a court is willing to recognize them or not this is a viable baby
02:00:40.900 at this point should tell you we got a statement from the lawyer for the parents whose name is
02:00:47.640 Victoria Ferrara and she writes as follows the team at worldwide surrogacy specialists LLC
02:00:53.840 is saddened by the turn to litigation in this matter.
02:00:57.340 The team supports and has always supported
02:00:58.980 the gestational carrier's right
02:01:00.800 to make medical decisions for herself
02:01:02.420 and for her bodily autonomy.
02:01:04.300 The team also supports the right of the intended parents
02:01:07.000 to legal parentage of the child after his birth.
02:01:10.800 The owner of worldwide surrogacy,
02:01:12.740 attorney Ferrara,
02:01:13.740 submits that this matter
02:01:15.700 should have been referred to mediation
02:01:17.680 where all parties would have been urged
02:01:19.640 to consider the best interests of the child
02:01:21.300 who will face severe hardship upon his birth.
02:01:23.840 and to reach a settlement so that upon his birth,
02:01:26.200 the child would be surrounded by love,
02:01:27.640 not lawyers and litigation.
02:01:30.200 That's where it stands for now.
02:01:31.760 So I'd love to know your thoughts on it.
02:01:33.340 Please email me.
02:01:34.860 It's megan at megankelly.com.
02:01:37.140 Thank you all so much for listening and for watching,
02:01:39.300 and we will see you next episode.
02:01:41.080 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.86
02:01:42.800 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.