The Megyn Kelly Show - How Medical Establishment Keeps Americans Sick, and Evils of Censorship, with Dr. Marty Makary and Naval Ravikant

00:00:00.500 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:11.900 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:14.960 As Trump and RFKJ's surprising alliance of Make America Healthy Again, or MAHA, has shown us,

00:00:22.140 there is a dire health crisis happening in this country, and more Americans than ever recognize

00:00:26.700 there is a problem that needs to be addressed. The people in charge of looking out for us

00:00:31.500 are not doing that. To the contrary, they're making us sick and getting rich off of it.

00:00:37.560 One person who is tackling the medical groupthink that has led to this crisis is Dr. Marty McCary.

00:00:43.760 He's a Johns Hopkins professor and New York Times bestselling author who has a fascinating new book

00:00:49.020 coming out later this month. It is called Blind Spots, When Medicine Gets It Wrong,

00:00:55.280 and What It Means for Our Health. It's out September 17th. You can pre-order it now.

00:01:01.420 Do yourself a favor. Do exactly that, because it's going to be flying off the shelves,

00:01:05.580 and you won't be able to get it. September 17th. Mark my words. Get it now. Be one of the smart ones

00:01:10.000 who already has it, and you don't have to worry about, oh, we have to reprint. We didn't order

00:01:13.100 enough, because with the really popular sleeper books, like the sleeper hits, that's what happens.

00:01:18.000 And Dr. Marty McCary, he may not be a household name. You probably remember him as one of the

00:01:21.700 truth speakers on COVID, but the publishing houses underestimate the demand, and then you're stuck

00:01:27.580 waiting weeks and weeks. So pre-order it right now. Take my word for it. You didn't vote for this

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00:02:32.580 donewithdebt.com. Dr. McCary, welcome back to the show. Megan, great to see you. Thanks so much for

00:02:37.420 having me. It's wonderful to talk to you. There's so much to go over. You debunk so many things about

00:02:42.380 medicine that I did not know. And I like to think of myself as somebody who's relatively informed on

00:02:47.880 this stuff, but I read this like, oh my gosh, I didn't know any of this. So let's talk about,

00:02:52.900 first of all, why you thought this was necessary. Well, groupthink is a powerful force. And in

00:02:58.160 medicine, we get sort of medical dogma that takes on a life of its own and it permeates. And what we

00:03:04.660 develop are these giant blind spots, these areas of medicine and health that affect every aspect of

00:03:11.060 everything we're doing, of every person's health, but we never talk about them. The microbiome,

00:03:16.920 the poison food supply, the toxins we're exposed to, the bad recommendations that we put out there.

00:03:24.440 The fact that some of our modern day health crises have been caused by the hubris of the medical

00:03:30.420 establishment. We said opioids were not addictive, igniting the opioid epidemic.

00:03:35.740 Yes. We said we gave the wrong advice on peanut allergies, igniting the modern day peanut allergy

00:03:41.440 epidemic. So when we use good science in medicine, we can help a lot of people. But when we use the

00:03:49.100 opinions of a small group of leaders and central planners in medicine, where they issue these broad

00:03:55.280 edicts, we have a lousy track record, food pyramid, the opioid epidemic, the obesity epidemic.

00:04:02.000 So we've got to take a step back and actually ask, why is cancer doubling in many areas of GI cancer?

00:04:09.600 My area of pancreas, I'm a pancreas specialist at Hopkins. We do more pancreatic care and pancreas

00:04:15.120 cancer than any hospital in America. Never at any point in my 20 plus years there, did anyone ever

00:04:22.660 stop and say, why has pancreas cancer doubled in the last 20 years? Now, they're all good people.

00:04:28.880 They're my friends. They're great doctors. But we have done this terrible thing to doctors. We've

00:04:33.180 put them on this war path where all they do is put out fires at the end stage. No one's asking the

00:04:38.420 big questions. No one's asking, why is autism been going up 14% each year for the last 23 years? Why are

00:04:46.560 half our nation's children obese or overweight? Why are nearly a quarter of them dealing with fatty

00:04:53.860 liver and pre-diabetes? I mean, this is a well-being issue for the country. It's a national

00:05:00.320 security issue. It is a issue of the economy. This entire over-medicated population is a massive

00:05:09.980 burden. I mean, a $4.7 trillion economy that's expanding like crazy. And we're sort of told by

00:05:17.260 the politicians, oh, we were able to get Medicare to negotiate drug prices and save $6 billion in the

00:05:24.360 first year. OK, that's great. But that's a drop in the ocean. We've got this much bigger blind spot

00:05:31.220 in modern medicine. So what why is it like this? Is it all because of the power of big pharma to line

00:05:38.340 its own pockets and get people to go along with it? Pharma controls the narrative. They've captured the

00:05:43.040 big health agencies. They've created this culture. First of all, it's very hard to do research unless

00:05:49.480 big pharma is paying for it or the NIH has a designated center. So who at the NIH is interested

00:05:56.980 in the fact that sperm counts have gone down 50% in the last five decades or that the average age of

00:06:03.800 puberty is going down each year or that kids feel sick more and more, that autoimmune diseases are going

00:06:09.220 up, that attention deficit disorder is now epidemic or 40% of our kids will have a mental health

00:06:15.180 diagnosis. Who at the NIH is going to study the microbiome, pesticides, heavy metals, the poison food

00:06:23.860 supply, these food additives that are engineered to be addictive. So when you eat them, you're actually

00:06:30.900 more your appetite increases, even though you kind of feel full. And what's happening is all these

00:06:36.760 foreign molecules, these chemicals that are now rampant, including the derivatives of seed oils,

00:06:43.680 they go down the GI tract, which has a lymphatic system, an immune system in the wall of the intestine.

00:06:50.820 And it's not reacting to these foreign molecules and chemicals with a sudden reaction. It's reacting with

00:07:00.180 a low level immune fighting of this stuff. And it makes you feel blah, makes you feel sick and sad

00:07:08.300 sometimes. And what are we doing? We have told doctors, you only have your medications to do and

00:07:14.960 your operations to do. We haven't given doctors the time or resources or research funding to deal with

00:07:21.440 the root causes. And so they've lived in these blind spots. We never talk about them. We never talk

00:07:27.580 about these issues at the top medical centers. Trust me, I've gone as far as you can go in academic

00:07:32.560 medicine, all the accolades and tenure. And no one is talking about the biggest issues in health

00:07:38.660 because of these blind spots. I think we've got good people working in a bad system where the culture

00:07:43.700 has said, put your head down, do your job, you'll be rewarded. You'll make back all this debt that you

00:07:48.920 got in medical school. By the way, we take these highly creative students out of college. They want to save

00:07:56.560 the world, have big ideas. They're altruistic. Heck, 90% of our applicants are so want to do medical

00:08:04.420 missions, if not full-time, part-time as a side of their practice. And we take these bright, creative

00:08:10.520 young folks and we beat them down with this old guard dinosaur curriculum, memorize and regurgitate,

00:08:17.440 memorize these thousands of drugs and learn to get an eye, a hawk eye for when you can use them.

00:08:23.500 Oh, there's an indication. Here you go. There's an indication. Here you go. We put them on this

00:08:26.820 treadmill where they have 10 minute visits, 15 minute visits, and they're just diagnosing and

00:08:33.440 treating and doling out diagnoses and meds. We've done a terrible thing to these doctors, to these

00:08:39.720 young folks. It's depressing. I went to my eye doctor the other day and the eye doctor is great,

00:08:45.740 but I could see the schedule. I needed a follow-up and I could see they pulled up the schedule. I mean,

00:08:50.520 this person was double booked every day, all day for every 10 minute interval for weeks. I thought,

00:08:58.620 how much care can they be giving each of these patients? It's a crazy hamster wheel. And I was on

00:09:05.660 it and I got off of it. I said, I'm going to focus on my passion, which is public health research. I had

00:09:11.480 a degree in public health in medical school that I got. I got basically walked away from medicine

00:09:17.780 after three years of medical school, disillusioned. This isn't for me. What are we doing? And I

00:09:24.180 enrolled in graduate school for public health. I ended up coming back to medicine. I missed the

00:09:29.000 bedside care and I love being a surgeon. But after being on this treadmill that everybody gets on,

00:09:35.300 I said, no more dangling bonuses at the end of the year. I don't care what my throughput is. The

00:09:40.800 system is designed for throughput and billing and coding. Why do you think we have 35% of doctors

00:09:47.220 burn out? And doctors are one of the highest professions for suicide. We're doing a terrible

00:09:51.740 thing to these people. And a lot of doctors now are rejecting it. They're saying, we're not going

00:09:56.980 to have anything to do with this. Half of my students at Johns Hopkins don't want to have anything to do

00:10:01.240 with this crazy broken system. They don't care about the big pay and the house in the suburb. They want

00:10:06.740 to be a part of something bigger. They want to deal with the root causes. They want to start

00:10:12.000 businesses. They're entrepreneurial. They're getting second degrees. They want to spend time

00:10:16.940 in a Medicare Advantage model where basically they get paid on a lump sum for a population.

00:10:23.420 They can spend an hour and talk about the sleep quality of a person that affects their blood

00:10:29.020 pressure, not just doling out antihypertensives. Maybe we need to talk about school lunch programs

00:10:34.800 instead of putting every kid on Ozempic. Maybe we need to talk about treating diabetes with cooking

00:10:40.000 classes instead of throwing insulin at people. Maybe we need to talk about environmental exposures

00:10:45.120 that cause cancer, not just the chemotherapy to treat it. We're going backwards. We're watching

00:10:51.600 all of these chronic diseases consume our culture, and we've got to get off this myopic focus.

00:10:58.040 So luckily, good stuff is happening. A lot of doctors are speaking up. They're getting off

00:11:03.700 the treadmill. They're spending time with patients. They're coming up with their own models for care,

00:11:08.280 financial models. And a bunch of us docs are going directly to the public to educate them

00:11:14.100 about health. Yes, it's so revolutionary. And it's brave because these are very big,

00:11:19.580 powerful forces that have a financial interest, frankly, in keeping us sick who don't really want

00:11:24.800 to see this. The nutrition aspect of it is huge, and it's almost never discussed at a medical visit.

00:11:32.500 You know, they might say you're obese, you're overweight, you need to lose weight. But actually,

00:11:36.860 you know, the stuff about, you know, we talked before the show about Casey Means and her new book,

00:11:40.540 the stuff about, you know, seed oils that you mentioned, the stuff about preservatives and

00:11:46.160 the toxins in our food, you know, the poisoning of the food supplies, you point out, all this,

00:11:50.280 you know, herbicide or whatever, insecticide all over our fruit and our vegetables that some people

00:11:55.680 don't even know to really seriously wash off. Never mind not buy if you can. Not to mention

00:12:01.040 microplastics in the air and the water and our furniture and then the, you know, fire repellents on

00:12:07.340 our rugs. And I mean, all it's just a toxic world. A lot of people don't even know about it. And

00:12:13.220 frankly, just me listing it, they're like, I can't, I'm out. I got other things to deal with. I can't

00:12:19.000 deal with all that. Like a bunch of us are trying to give a different perspective than the perspective

00:12:24.720 the food industry and big ag and pharma have been putting in front of people for a long time,

00:12:29.700 telling doctors, you don't need to look into arsenic levels in the water. The EPA says you can have up to

00:12:37.240 10 micrograms per liter of arsenic in your water. Where do they come up with that number from?

00:12:42.980 Oh my gosh. I didn't know that. I mean, they're making stuff up. I mean, this is where we get

00:12:47.680 into trouble. This is why distrust goes down in the establishment. So you draw the blood of a baby

00:12:55.140 today through the umbilical cord and there's 287 forever compounds. How about research on those

00:13:02.860 compounds? How about research on the seed oil derivatives? How about research on the pesticides

00:13:09.300 that have hormone effects in children, which may explain the declining fertility and lowering age of

00:13:16.300 puberty instead of research on bat coronaviruses in Wuhan and Japanese quail that they give cocaine to

00:13:26.480 and they watch their sexual activity. These are real studies funded by the government. So we have had

00:13:31.180 terrible leaders in the medical establishment. And so a bunch of us, Peter Atiyah, Casey and Kelly

00:13:36.900 Means, Vinay Prasad, Zubin Damani, we feel like now we're going to go directly to public and educate

00:13:43.820 them about the real story on health because there is a huge body of literature on all these topics you

00:13:50.260 talk about from microplastics to the microbiome. And people need to know about it so they can make

00:13:55.100 better choices every day. It's that's one benefit of COVID is it did expose our medical leaders as

00:14:02.940 agenda driven and in many cases, not trustworthy like Fauci and the NIH. And we learned to try to

00:14:11.780 do an end around to find the doctors who we actually trusted. You were chief among them.

00:14:16.700 Um, I know you worked with Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, who we love, and we were the first, I think,

00:14:21.300 to put him on when he and his colleagues wrote, um, their paper or the great Barrington declaration

00:14:26.660 talking about focused protection. So, and Vinay Prasad has been amazing. I've watched all his

00:14:32.340 stuff on micro, uh, myocarditis for young people. Cause I have three kids. We did not get them the

00:14:36.880 COVID vaccine and I'm thrilled. We didn't, I wish I could say the same for myself, but anyway,

00:14:41.840 I think it was a good lesson for us in question everyone to find end arounds in the same way,

00:14:47.980 media, right? Question everything, find the people you trust as opposed to entire establishments.

00:14:53.560 Yeah. We don't want to create cynicism or hysteria. If you have an emergency, do whatever the doctor

00:14:58.880 says. But when it comes to chronic diseases, when it comes to irritable bowel or why somebody is

00:15:04.740 developing autoimmunity, we don't really ever talk about this stuff in medicine. I, um, you mentioned

00:15:11.600 food and nutrition. I gave the keynote speech. I was invited to give the keynote speech, uh,

00:15:17.180 several years ago at the big nutrition conference. This is the biggest conference on nutrition and

00:15:22.740 doctors, uh, for dietitians, for nutritionists and dietitians. And so, um, I gave my keynote speech.

00:15:29.080 Of course, I like to push the field as you've observed. And, uh, afterwards, uh, a woman who

00:15:35.780 is from the milk lobby comes and gives me her perspective. When I talked about,

00:15:40.960 why are we taking out natural fat and adding sugar? Like, what are we doing? Um,

00:15:46.640 we're doing it backwards. Like there's nothing wrong with natural fat. It doesn't cause heart

00:15:50.040 disease like we thought. Um, and she says they're one of the two big sponsors of the nutrition

00:15:56.300 conference. The other sponsor I find out is Coca-Cola. Oh, come on. So this is a, um, people

00:16:01.960 are not getting the real story on health. Can you talk about that whole milk thing? I mean,

00:16:06.140 is that whole whole milk versus 1% or skim? Yeah. So where did we get, you should drink

00:16:12.560 three glasses of cow's milk a day. That is the, still the current recommendation for adults

00:16:17.440 and kids. Like where is this stuff coming from? And the one thing we do is we take out natural

00:16:22.920 fat. The natural fat causes heart disease, what we call saturated fat causes heart disease

00:16:28.320 was put out by a politician, uh, scientist named Ansel Keys in the 1960s after Eisenhower had his

00:16:36.540 heart attack. And he said, Oh, it was because he ate too much fat. And they put them on this low fat,

00:16:40.520 low cholesterol diet. One of the great ironies of cholesterol, by the way, in the diet

00:16:44.500 is you don't even absorb it. The cholesterol in food goes right through your system. 90% of it

00:16:50.700 because it's esterified, which means it's bound to a bulky side chain. You can't absorb it. 99% of your

00:16:56.620 cholesterol in your body, which is in every cell is made by your body. It's not from dietary

00:17:00.400 sources. So that was the great, that's the great irony of the low cholesterol diet. I mean,

00:17:06.020 misinformation, you might say the government joined in on this low fat bandwagon. So Ansel Keys had

00:17:12.360 convinced a bunch of folks at the American Heart Association, you got to go with the low fat diet.

00:17:17.400 They started licensing out their little healthy heart to every family restaurant in America made

00:17:22.660 millions selling cookbooks and low fat, low cholesterol cookbooks. Turns out it was a house

00:17:28.140 of cards. They did three giant studies in the last 60 years to try and prove that saturated fat causes

00:17:35.740 heart disease. All three failed to show that, including some of the biggest studies ever done

00:17:39.640 in medicine. The colleagues at Ansel Keys, the University of Minnesota, did something called the

00:17:45.000 Minnesota Heart Study. It was a randomized controlled trial of 9,000 people and followed them for a long

00:17:50.160 time. Started in the late 60s, 70s. More heart attacks in the low fat group. Wow. Now, why is that?

00:17:59.440 They're eating more refined carbohydrates, most likely. It's the added sugar and refined carbohydrates,

00:18:05.120 an ultra processed nonsense that's engineered, that is causing inflammation. The body's reacting to it

00:18:13.000 with an inflammatory reaction. It doesn't know what to do with it. It's reacting. And guess what heart

00:18:17.320 disease, it's inflammation of the coronary artery wall that enables the dense and small lipoproteins

00:18:24.520 to deposit. They got it perfectly backwards. Wow. And it's still out there today. I was at a cafe

00:18:30.300 this week and it's low fat, egg white only. What are we doing? In schools, we got low fat, you know,

00:18:36.180 fooling ourselves into thinking. So we have got, what we don't do well in medicine is show humility.

00:18:43.340 I'm not talking about everyday docs. I'm talking about the establishment. When you get something

00:18:48.800 tragically wrong, when you put something out there that's your opinion with such absolutism that

00:18:54.860 everybody must do something and you, the data shows you're totally wrong. How about a reckoning? How

00:19:01.460 about apologizing with the same vigor by which you insisted?

00:19:05.020 That we saw in COVID for sure. Um, and we realized that all the stuff was made up. Fauci admitted that

00:19:10.800 it was made up six feet and you know, all the mandatory masking for children, all of that school

00:19:15.080 closures. I mean, have you heard anyone apologize from that group, that crew? No, a single apology

00:19:20.840 for any single one of the many errors. No, they haven't even acknowledged, nevermind apologized.

00:19:25.900 So it's maddening of course, but you know, eyeopening on the bright side, eyeopening. One of the

00:19:31.660 areas that you touch on in the book is the whole peanut allergy thing. And may I just say a lot

00:19:36.480 of this was raised on this show by RFKJ a couple of years ago, we put him on and people said he's a

00:19:41.820 kook. He's been banned from all social media. He was saying all of this. He was like, why do we have

00:19:47.120 all these ticks in children in today's day? Why do we have such an alarming rate of autism? Why do we

00:19:52.360 have all these? Right. And he was saying it's environmental. There's, there's stuff around us and

00:19:56.800 there's stuff we're putting in our bodies. People said he's a lunatic. We got blowback for putting

00:20:01.100 him on. We didn't care. But here you are Johns Hopkins, actual doctor saying a lot of the same

00:20:06.540 things. So can you talk about the peanut allergy problem? Well, here's a good example of a

00:20:11.720 recommendation that the establishment put out with such absolutism when really they just made it up.

00:20:18.580 And that was in order to prevent peanut allergies, mothers who are pregnant or lactating, any child

00:20:26.500 zero through three years of old should avoid peanuts. A hundred percent peanut butter in particular

00:20:32.120 peanuts have a choking hazard. So we're talking about peanut butter. It had been done for a long

00:20:36.860 time that you would give an infant at five or six months, as soon as they can eat a little bit of

00:20:40.760 peanut butter, maybe a little milk eggs. And that would, um, that was kind of a standard, you know,

00:20:47.340 in Africa, they would add a little peanut to the soup that they would drink. So you start to

00:20:53.120 get them used to it. Yeah. Their immune system learns it and they tolerate it. It's called immune

00:20:58.680 tolerance. But in their hubris, the American Academy of Pediatrics had this committee and they said

00:21:05.000 total peanut abstinence in the first three years of life in order to prevent peanut allergies.

00:21:10.320 They had it perfectly backwards. It ignited the modern day peanut allergy epidemic. A few years

00:21:16.460 in that recommendation, the peanut allergy rates soared and the establishment started freaking out

00:21:21.580 to thinking, Oh, what are what's going on here? You know? And they concluded anti-science mothers are

00:21:27.800 not following our recommendation. We need to double down and increase compliance. And then they skyrocketed

00:21:34.160 and we saw a new type of peanut allergy, which is the ultra severe anaphylactic reaction showing up.

00:21:39.800 You know, a kid can be near a peanut or peanut butter and have trouble breathing. That's a real thing.

00:21:44.960 We shouldn't mock it. This is by and large, an epidemic that was ignited by this hubris. And then

00:21:53.080 everyone played along the bandwagon thinking, the group thinking medicine, the National Institute

00:21:59.720 of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, NIAID. They played along, they sort of firmed up the recommendation,

00:22:08.840 supported. 15 years later, just eight years ago, the study finally got published, a basic simple

00:22:16.660 study randomizing kids to the two approaches, early peanut butter exposure, age five months,

00:22:22.160 six months versus abstinence. And there was a massive difference within a few years, massive,

00:22:28.820 eightfold. Why not do that study initially? Yeah. Instead of just rule by opinion. And this is

00:22:35.500 where we get ourselves in huge trouble. I mean, well, you went, this is what I love about the book

00:22:40.200 because on this, and I think on HRT as well. And on some others, you went back, found the original

00:22:46.720 alleged study on which these massive policy implementations were based and found the doctor

00:22:53.260 who was behind the study. And in multiple instances, they were like, either that's not what I said,

00:22:58.820 or we're so dodgy as to like, you instantly recognize this is not an honest broker. So the book

00:23:05.340 lays these people bare. HRT was another one, hormone replacement therapy for women where everybody's

00:23:11.340 getting it. Women loved it in their fifties and whatever. And then they said, oh, it causes cancer,

00:23:15.560 you know, shouldn't do it. You're going to get breast cancer. And only recently, and we covered

00:23:18.460 this on the show, did they say, that's actually not true. You might be able to take HRT with absolutely

00:23:25.340 no problem. You know, talk to your doctor, see what your breast cancer risks are, but it's a minuscule

00:23:29.440 risk to the increased breast cancer. There's actually zero increased risk of breast cancer

00:23:35.600 mortality in the original study. And no one did the investigative journalism to actually look at

00:23:41.140 closely at the study. And I found the guy who made the announcement 22 years ago, declaring that

00:23:46.220 hormone replacement during menopause causes breast cancer. And he was talking over my head and trying

00:23:52.880 to talk statistics. And, you know, it was a very interesting, long conversation. And he's talking

00:24:02.640 to the wrong dude. I have a degree in epidemiology and biostatistics from Harvard. And so we taught the

00:24:09.120 numbers and he acknowledged to me after we stuck to the actual data that there was no statistically

00:24:16.440 significant increased risk of breast cancer or breast cancer mortality. Women who took estrogen alone

00:24:21.160 had a 25% lower rate of breast cancer. And yet 50 million women have been denied this amazing

00:24:28.720 therapy that helps them to live longer and feel better because of this dogma put out by this one

00:24:34.380 doctor from the NIH who hoodwinked all of his, many of his co-investigators in a meeting just before his

00:24:41.500 press conference where he said, hey, we're going to do this. I'm going to make this announcement.

00:24:44.540 And I find out there's a shouting match that happened in that meeting in 2002. They said,

00:24:51.220 you can't put this out there. It's not statistically significant. And if you scare women with fear of

00:24:57.140 breast cancer with something as sensitive as breast cancer, you will never be able to put that genie

00:25:01.720 back in the bottle. And that was really true. 80% of doctors today still will not prescribe hormone

00:25:07.520 therapy or try to minimize the amount of prescribing because of, they will tell you that it causes breast

00:25:12.800 cancer. And when you ask them why, they will point to the 2002 Women's Health Initiative that was

00:25:18.420 announced by this doctor without releasing this data until later after the media ran with the

00:25:23.800 headlines. And just for context, Megan, arguably with the exception of antibiotics, there is no

00:25:29.220 medication that improves the health of a population more than hormone replacement therapy for menopausal

00:25:36.720 women taking estrogen or estrogen. They live on average three and a half years longer in the group

00:25:42.620 that took it. Their nitric oxide levels are higher because the estradiol oxidizes. So their blood

00:25:49.920 vessels are a little softer, more dilated, more healthy, improves the blood flow. It's also believed

00:25:56.040 to help with nerve conduction. That's why it may be that many researchers have observed 50 to 60%

00:26:03.860 less cognitive decline in women who start hormone therapy. And on top of it, it helps you sleep better

00:26:08.920 and greater sleep is better to prevent Alzheimer's and all those things.

00:26:12.180 Yeah. 35% lower risk of Alzheimer's in one of the big studies. The short-term symptoms of menopause

00:26:18.840 that last, say, five to eight years are either eliminated or alleviated in part from...

00:26:26.440 So there's less suffering, less mood swings, less weight gain, less...

00:26:31.460 Bone breakage later.

00:26:32.480 A 30% lower rate of breaking a bone, 50% in some studies. So if a woman falls later in life,

00:26:40.320 they're far less likely to need surgery or have a broken bone. My mom just broke her hand

00:26:48.880 just about a year ago. She's fine now. But she was never given hormone therapy. The fracture was

00:26:55.500 borderline if it needed surgery. But the colleagues I trust at Hopkins said,

00:26:59.200 you should really have surgery. Had this guy never made this false claim, misrepresented his data,

00:27:06.600 I got to wonder, could my mother have avoided all the immobility and cascade of events?

00:27:13.820 That's amazing.

00:27:14.500 So women feel better, live longer.

00:27:16.660 Not to mention, we had a doctor on the show, not this past summer, but 23, who was saying it can help

00:27:22.080 with sex drive because as your estrogen goes down and if you get it just back to normal for women,

00:27:27.120 I mean, it just... I don't want to say it's a miracle drug, but it's kind of a miracle cocktail.

00:27:30.880 It's pretty amazing. Less dryness is true. And a 50% lower rate of heart attacks in one study

00:27:37.680 because the blood vessels may be healthier.

00:27:39.600 That's incredible.

00:27:40.240 And to this day, this NIH scientist created this dogma that resulted in one of the greatest

00:27:45.540 screw-ups of modern medicine. And it's still going on. That's why I wanted people to know about

00:27:49.340 this. And that's why I write about it in the book.

00:27:51.260 Can you speak about the microbiome? Because there's a woman named Dr. Robin Chutkin who came on my show at NBC

00:27:56.560 a couple of times. She was great. She has whole books about the microbiome with recipes. And I recommend

00:28:01.360 just Google. They're out there. We eat from that book all the time. But here's the problem with the microbiome

00:28:07.700 as I see it. The system around us does not support us cultivating a healthy microbiome. And I know you're big

00:28:16.100 on caution about antibiotics, but they're prescribed for everything. I mean, I'll just give you an example.

00:28:22.880 I just went to the eye doctor. I have dry eye. And she's like, you know, your eyes are a little

00:28:26.260 inflamed right now. And we should be doing 50 milligrams of doxycycline a day because it'll

00:28:31.500 bring the inflammation of the eyelids down. And that's good for me because it's very uncomfortable

00:28:38.040 to have inflamed eyes, especially in this job. But back on antibiotics, 30 days. You know,

00:28:43.740 it happens all the time. They push them on you.

00:28:46.280 They push them. And also, there's a consumerist culture now. Doctors are getting rated with a

00:28:51.700 five-star rating. And some of the parents are coming in demanding antibiotics for their kids.

00:28:56.000 There's many factors going on here. But we have to be disciplined as a medical profession and say,

00:29:01.240 if you're not going to benefit, if it's a viral infection, we have to stop screwing up the microbiome

00:29:07.480 by carpet bombing the microbiome with these antibiotics. Remember, the microbiome is a lining

00:29:13.120 of millions of different bacteria along the GI tract that are involved in absorption and digestion.

00:29:21.520 It trains the immune system that's in close proximity in the wall of the intestine. Some of

00:29:26.960 those bacteria produce serotonin involved in mood and maybe mental illness. And some of those bacteria

00:29:33.960 make GLP-1. That's the ozempic. The ozempic active ingredient. So your microbiome makes your own

00:29:40.980 ozempic. At low levels. Yeah. It's a natural hormone in the body. So we, 60% of antibiotics in

00:29:47.660 many studies are unnecessary that are prescribed. I think it's much higher. I'm forced to give

00:29:54.020 antibiotics or have been much of my career for minor procedures because there's a protocol,

00:29:59.880 even though the data really supports antibiotics for major procedures, not minor, but it's just kind

00:30:04.540 of, ah, what the heck? There's this myth that, oh, they won't hurt you. They're probably altering

00:30:10.420 the microbiome. Good animal studies show that. I go through it on my book with the world expert on

00:30:15.060 the microbiome. And an amazing study just came out of the Mayo Clinic that is in one of the giant

00:30:20.940 blind spots of modern medicine that no one I know in medicine had noticed this study. It was brought

00:30:27.960 to my attention by a friend. The Mayo Clinic looked at 14,000 kids and compared those who had

00:30:35.500 an antibiotic in the first couple of years of life. This is a scary part of the book. Yeah.

00:30:39.600 It's amazing, right? Because the average three-year-old has already taken about an antibiotic

00:30:45.400 course each year. Wow. Right? So think about its effect in altering the microbiome. They compare,

00:30:52.620 and by the way, antibiotics save lives, C-sections save lives, but they're both overused and people need

00:30:57.420 to have good judicious understandings of these. The kids who took an antibiotic in the first couple

00:31:04.320 years of life compared to kids who did not had a 20% higher rate of obesity, 21% higher rate of

00:31:12.200 learning disabilities, all of which are on the rise in the modern era of antibiotics, 32% higher rate

00:31:18.440 of attention deficit disorder, 90% higher rate of asthma, and nearly a 300% higher rate of celiac.

00:31:24.640 All of these things are going up and we scratch our heads in medicine and say,

00:31:27.940 I don't know why it's genetic or you're smoking or you're obese. No, it's the underlying

00:31:33.440 disruption of the microbiome. And it's not just antibiotics. And by the way, in that study,

00:31:39.160 the more courses of antibiotics, the greater the risk of each of those chronic diseases.

00:31:43.920 But what about something like, I know we're not doing specifics, but think about strep. You get

00:31:48.760 strep. And I remember when my kids were little, they'd say, if you don't treat strep, it can cause

00:31:53.660 a heart infection that will saddle your child for life. So it was like, oh my God, get the penicillin stat.

00:32:01.460 Yeah. You truly have a bacterial infection. You want to treat it early, get ahead of it.

00:32:06.620 These infections can cause real problems. We don't want people listening to let a kid suffer

00:32:12.260 with a bacterial infection because that can cause hearing loss, affect their learning and their

00:32:16.420 long-term hearing. But most antibiotics are given for these nothing viral, minor-

00:32:23.060 Or just prophylactically.

00:32:23.660 Prophylactically. People demanding them. So we've got to stop doing that because the guy who

00:32:30.200 had discovered penicillin in 1922, after he got the Nobel Prize in the 1940s, warned the country and

00:32:36.920 the medical establishment about the massive overuse. How it was going to create superbugs,

00:32:42.320 introducing a new pandemic, and how they would have unintended consequences.

00:32:46.480 It's just like when Peter Benchley wrote Jaws. Did not mean to turn us all off from sharks

00:32:51.800 forevermore. The unintended consequences.

00:32:53.980 I'm still scared of sharks.

00:32:55.240 Of course.

00:32:55.860 Right.

00:32:56.300 Who isn't? But he regretted how much he scared us. So on the microbiome, isn't it true that we can

00:33:02.340 counteract a lot of that with probiotics, with cider vinegar, with kimchi, anything that's been

00:33:10.360 fermented? There's a lot we can do to save the microbiome. It's just we're not being told about it.

00:33:15.400 Yeah. So you want to eat whole foods. You want healthy meats that are not meats pumped with

00:33:21.960 hormones and all sorts of chemicals. It's kind of interesting. The medical establishment every now

00:33:27.700 and then will come up with a study that whole foods are better and clean meats. And it's like,

00:33:31.940 yeah, these are biblical ancient principles. Meditation has health benefits and fasting.

00:33:39.920 It's like all of a sudden this crazy, yeah, this is all stuff from the Bible, right?

00:33:42.880 Yeah. So you want to eat well, avoid these toxins, avoid the exposures. And probiotics are

00:33:49.260 very popular, but nobody really knows which ones are working well. Now there's one study.

00:33:55.740 Good. I say try it, try it all. But you want to just avoid the ultra processed foods and the things

00:34:00.900 with pesticides. Eat organic because those pesticides, if they're killing the pests,

00:34:05.800 what are they doing to that balance of microbiome?

00:34:08.160 So all fruits and vegetables, everything that you buy that could spoil in three days.

00:34:13.420 Particularly where you're eating the surface of that fruit or vegetable.

00:34:16.800 Like an apple or a pear.

00:34:18.380 A strawberry has been sprayed over 12 times and has 7.8 different pesticides on average.

00:34:24.340 So is a strawberry healthy?

00:34:25.680 No.

00:34:26.140 Only if it's organic.

00:34:27.320 So you should be buying all organic fruits and vegetables, really?

00:34:30.560 Yeah. Now if I'll have a mango and I'm taking the peel off, I don't insist.

00:34:36.280 A coconut.

00:34:38.000 Sure. But I'll take it right off the tree in Florida. But yeah. And we want to move markets.

00:34:43.260 We want people to ask because in restaurants, when people start asking for healthy products,

00:34:48.060 it moves markets and suppliers.

00:34:50.120 That's so true because you might eat only grass fed beef in your house. But think of how often you go

00:34:55.700 out to dinner and you order a steak and you haven't asked that. And I've talked to a lot of guys about

00:34:59.960 seed oils. And they're saying too, like, will you please prepare it in butter? Like, I don't want

00:35:05.360 you to use the certain, like whatever, canola oil or vegetable oil. Or even, you know, your kid is

00:35:10.740 making like a cake. It's like, you don't want to use that stuff. They're very misleading because

00:35:15.460 they sound healthy. You know, vegetable oil. Hey, vegetables are good. I was just told, right?

00:35:21.060 But there's such a misnomer around them. They are heated up, denatured, chemically modified.

00:35:28.140 And it's not just cold pressed olive oil. Like when you typically buy healthy olive oil,

00:35:33.600 these are chemicals. And so the seed oils right now are really in focus. And a lot of people are-

00:35:40.660 And good luck. Like one of the things they tell us to eat are nuts, eat nuts. But then you go to

00:35:44.980 the grocery store and all of the nuts are like canola oil, canola oil, canola oil. They roasted

00:35:50.360 them all in canola. It's very hard to just find one that reads like macadamia nuts and salt.

00:35:55.460 Yeah. Great. Right? Yeah. You really have to work at it. You got to work at it. And peanut

00:35:59.600 butter is the same. Look, I wish it wasn't just us and a small group of individuals trying to get

00:36:04.160 this word out. Where's our medical establishment? Where's the leadership of our $4.5 trillion economy

00:36:10.440 on this stuff? As long as we're just talking about medicating and operating, we're going to continue to

00:36:16.100 have the most medicated generation in the history of the world. Well, I know you're sounding the alarm on

00:36:21.380 Zempic. Not necessarily saying it's bad, but how is this the solution we're going to for

00:36:25.800 under 10-year-olds who are obese? Yeah.

00:36:29.120 But is it bad, by the way? Because America wants to know.

00:36:32.280 Well, it's got side effects and you're on it for life. It's expensive. And we don't know about a

00:36:38.240 major downside to GLP-1 drugs. And that is just like they reduce excess body fat, they also will

00:36:47.380 reduce your muscle. So unless you're eating a high-protein diet and exercising like crazy,

00:36:52.420 we may be accelerating muscle loss, which, by the way, muscle mass is the number one predictor

00:37:00.180 of longevity. So you'll die younger, but you'll be thin. There's no long-term studies. So we just

00:37:05.540 told by the pharma, hey, it's safe, it's good. Opioids were... Oxycontin was approved on a 14-day

00:37:11.900 follow-up study for chronic pain. We cannot trust pharma to tell us what's safe in the big food and

00:37:17.940 big ag. That's terrifying. Oh, wait, let's go back to the childbirth thing. Oh, did you have

00:37:23.100 another point you wanted to make? Maybe that's a segue to childbirth. I was going to say the other

00:37:26.740 thing to sort of make your microbiome healthy is not just avoid unnecessary antibiotics, avoid

00:37:33.520 pesticides, eat whole foods, but also avoid unnecessary C-sections. So that's an important message.

00:37:38.700 Yes. I mean, I hate this part because I had three C-sections, but it was bad, I guess. I didn't know

00:37:43.880 that. What's bad about it? So first of all, C-sections save lives. And the best doctors who I

00:37:51.200 know who are very appropriate about C-section use and do high-risk deliveries have C-section rates in

00:37:56.920 the 12% to 20% range. Now we do data analytics on my team, and we can see doctors who have C-section

00:38:04.700 rates of 60 or 70% in low-risk deliveries. Okay. We don't do it. I had a high risk. That's what

00:38:11.160 happened. Okay. But the second two were by choice. Cause you know, it's like once I'd done the one,

00:38:15.300 I didn't want to blow everything out. Sorry. TMI. Well, so they're the so-called once, once you have

00:38:20.520 a C-section, you always have to have a C-section is medical dogma. And that pendulum has swung back.

00:38:25.680 You can do VBAC, vaginal birth after C-section. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So what's, what's wrong with the C-section?

00:38:30.360 It hurts the mother and the baby? Well, it's more invasive. Again, they save lives are necessary

00:38:34.840 sometimes, but here's how the microbiome forms in a child. Because when a baby's in utero,

00:38:41.040 their, their gut is sterile. There's no bacteria in their gut. And this critical organ is formed

00:38:47.080 immediately after childbirth because the bacteria from the vaginal canal is seeding the microbiome.

00:38:55.100 And those bacteria then are also augmented from bacteria in the colostrum, the breast milk,

00:39:02.020 the skin, grandparents kissing the kids, all that stuff is how the microbiome, millions of

00:39:07.560 different bacteria is formed in this equilibrium that keeps us healthy and trains the immune system

00:39:14.100 and is involved in mood. And so during a C-section, what's happening is you're extracting

00:39:19.840 a sterile baby out of a sterile operative field. And instead of the microbiome being seeded from the

00:39:26.800 birth canal, it may be seeded by bacteria that normally live in the hospital. And so it's a very

00:39:32.520 different microbiome. And we've known for a long time, babies born by C-section have higher rates of

00:39:37.280 asthma, inflammatory bowel disease, because remember a different altered microbiome in different

00:39:44.720 proportions and distributions can cause inflammation. And a study just came out in one of our big medical

00:39:52.340 journals, JAMA Surgery, that the higher rates of colon cancer that we're seeing in young people in their

00:39:59.000 thirties and forties was associated with having been born by C-section.

00:40:03.660 OMG. All right. So how do we, I mean, it was too late.

00:40:06.280 It's too late.

00:40:06.860 So we continue to insult the microbiome. So that's where you want to get back to Whole Foods.

00:40:13.820 Heck, at Mount Sinai Medical Center in New York, I found out that when a baby's born by C-section,

00:40:19.620 now they have a trial taking some vaginal fluid and swabbing the skin of the baby to try it. So

00:40:25.220 we're learning about this incredible organ system, the microbiome, that we have been blowing off,

00:40:32.080 telling women, oh, it doesn't matter. How do you want to deliver C-section?

00:40:35.240 Yeah. Right. It does matter. It does matter.

00:40:37.460 Okay. Well, that's sad, but good to know. And in any event,

00:40:40.580 no, it's fine. I mean, I'd rather know. You went and did an in-depth study on not cutting

00:40:49.860 the umbilical cord. I spoke with a woman who's done in-depth studies, not cutting the umbilical

00:40:55.320 cord too quickly. It's not like leave it on for four days, but even like a minute makes a big

00:41:00.260 difference. Makes a big difference. I remember as a medical student and a lot of fathers have

00:41:05.160 had this experience, they give you the scissors and they say, okay, the second we clamp this thing

00:41:10.000 and I'm sitting there as a nervous medical student and they're telling me your one job,

00:41:14.940 you know, it's second we cut this thing is clamping, you cut it, you know, and there's all

00:41:18.940 this chaos and screaming and then there it is. Cut it. You know, what are we doing? It was pulsate,

00:41:24.200 you know, it pulsates for a minute or two longer. It's pulsating healthy blood, fetal hemoglobin,

00:41:31.780 which has a very high oxygen binding. It's very good hemoglobin, stem cells, antibodies. The fluid

00:41:39.080 is warm through the umbilical cord. We're cutting, we're doing this crazy thing. We cut the umbilical

00:41:43.900 cord and we whisk the baby off to some area. And I remember as a student, what are we, where are we

00:41:48.780 going? What are we, why are we taking the baby away from the mother? Oh, we have to rewarm the baby

00:41:54.240 under some French fry light or something. Okay. There's the mama. There's the mama. That's a

00:42:00.080 healthy incubator. It's a warm incubator. And the kid was getting a transfusion of warm blood.

00:42:05.980 So we now recognize there's incredible health benefits to a delayed clamping of the umbilical

00:42:11.220 cord. One study found 90 seconds was even better than 45 seconds. There's, there was a study done

00:42:17.240 of the myelination of the brain and found different myelination of the brain. There's some myelination

00:42:23.580 the nerve, um, pathways and development of the brain. The myelin is the covering of the nerve.

00:42:31.360 It's the myelin sheath around the nerve. And so, um, having the mom hold the baby immediately after

00:42:37.700 birth for hours, not like here for a second, we have to take the baby. Um, there's something magical

00:42:42.480 about bonding. We don't understand in medicine and the babies who have had this, what we call skin

00:42:48.400 to skin time or kangaroo time. But you're talking about like 12 hours at a time. That's one of the

00:42:53.000 things the book points out. It's not just because at any hospital, you're like, Oh, they need skin

00:42:56.260 to skin. And you have your baby on you for 10 minutes. That's not what you're talking about.

00:42:59.740 Yeah. Look, I'm a guy, so I don't know how long a woman after delivering a baby can hold, but at

00:43:04.200 least a couple hours is what's recommended at a lot of these birthing centers or hospitals that are

00:43:09.520 trying to use these, this protocol, this bundle of best practices of delayed cord clamping,

00:43:14.980 maximizing skin to skin time for hours. First hour breastfeeding that with golden hour of

00:43:20.580 breastfeeding to maximize the odds of latching and breastfeeding affects the baby's microbiome

00:43:26.400 positively. All right, kids, we got that one going for us that we did. Um, on the subject of

00:43:32.060 ovarian cancer, you point out ovarian cancer begins in all cases. I've heard different. I've heard the

00:43:39.280 most pernicious cases. I've heard all cases, um, begins not in the ovaries at all. Yeah,

00:43:47.480 this is a relatively recent discovery. My colleagues at Hopkins, many of them were not

00:43:52.560 even aware of this recent discovery, but our GYN department is all, they're all aware of it.

00:43:58.720 And that is the most common type of ovarian cancer, not all, but the most common is also

00:44:03.400 the most dominant and the most dangerous and lethal. And it comes from the fallopian tube from

00:44:10.340 the end of the fallopian tube, not the ovaries. So we've taken out millions of healthy ovaries

00:44:14.280 in the name of preventing ovarian cancer. It turns out we were targeting the wrong organ.

00:44:20.600 So when a woman comes in now to Johns Hopkins, it says, I'd like my tubes tied. Our doctors are saying,

00:44:26.800 we don't do that anymore. We remove the fallopian tubes, leaving the ovaries in place

00:44:31.120 to reduce your one in 78 chance of ovarian cancer. I recommend it. I had an ovary removed

00:44:38.700 because it had a cyst wrapped around it. And while I was going under, the guy said,

00:44:43.760 do you want me to take the tubes? I'm like, why would I want you to take the tubes? And he told me

00:44:47.900 this. He was a, he was an OBGYN cancer doc. And I was like, is there anything wrong with him? He said,

00:44:52.740 no, but so they did it all laparoscopically. It was like a few 20 minutes. I'm like, I'm all right.

00:44:59.560 So you're taking out a cyst. You're taking an ovary. You're taking out the tubes. I expect to

00:45:03.620 look like Giselle when this is over. I went totally flat. Didn't happen, but I'm thrilled

00:45:08.920 that they're not in me. You know, and I was done having my kids. So it's like, get them out of there.

00:45:12.860 Exactly. So it's nice to have some, some good medical care. Can you speak to fluoride?

00:45:18.040 So about 67% of the U S drinking water has fluoride in it. In Canada, it's about a third. And

00:45:24.980 in Europe, it's 3%. Fluoride is put into the drinking water because we believe it reduces

00:45:30.520 cavities. It's bacterial sidle. That is, it kills some of the bacteria in the mouth. And that's

00:45:35.440 probably why we see lower cavities. But if it's killing the bacteria in the mouth, what's it doing

00:45:39.060 to the microbiome bacteria? We have, we're messing with mother nature here. I don't think we understand

00:45:45.740 what these consequences are. And separately, a study has suggested that the fluoride builds up in one of

00:45:52.920 the learning centers of the brain. And this is a JAMA study. This is not a fringe study

00:45:57.560 finding lower IQs in people with fluoridated water. So the CDC, this is again, group think.

00:46:04.060 We get one thing in our mind and the cognitive dissonance is we have to believe it. And everyone

00:46:07.920 say the same thing. We can't have any dissent. We have to censor doctors who disagree. It turns out

00:46:13.020 the CDC has fluoridation of drinking water on their website, on the list of 10 greatest public

00:46:21.120 health achievements. Wow. So there's a propaganda piece to this whole thing. The purpose of science

00:46:27.100 is to challenge deeply held assumptions. And we need to challenge the assumption on fluoride.

00:46:31.660 Even in your toothpaste, right? I mean, it's not just the water. That's right. It's ubiquitous and a

00:46:36.520 lot of other things. So yes. Yeah. Can I tell you, this is crazy. But I, a few years ago, I interviewed

00:46:41.580 Alex Jones and I went, I sat down with him and he's, as we know, he's definitely done some

00:46:47.200 not great things, especially when it comes to Newtown. However, one of the things he was telling

00:46:52.000 me was about fluoride and about early puberty and about the frogs when exposed that went from male

00:46:58.420 to female. It was, I went back to NBC. We had all these fact checkers. It was all true. We found out

00:47:04.080 all this stuff he was saying was true. And here I am across from you, Harvard educated Johns Hopkins

00:47:08.760 attending physician saying, yeah, fluoride, just like Alex Jones was saying, not good. It's crazy.

00:47:14.560 Yeah. But they'll shove it in your kid's mouth just on a general cleaning. They want to saturate

00:47:18.600 your kid in fluoride, like rinses or gels just for kicks. You know, the current recommendation

00:47:25.000 is kid, young kids should avoid fluoride and they shouldn't drink the water they're rinsing

00:47:30.280 with in adulthood. Maybe it's good to rinse with fluoride and then spit it out and not digest

00:47:36.840 it, but it's in the drinking water. So we need good research on this stuff. Why are we funding

00:47:43.040 research at the NIH on dogs and, you know, putting them in cages and having flies sting them and

00:47:49.680 saying, Hey, we found that they can spread infection. By the way, the book is called Blind

00:47:54.300 Spots by Marty McCary, M-A-K-A-R-Y. Can you speak a little, we have precious little time,

00:48:00.380 but I heard you talk about L-P little a. What is this? So this is one of those dense,

00:48:06.180 small lipoproteins that's normally in your system that deposits in an inflamed coronary artery or an

00:48:12.780 inflamed vessel and causes a plaque in heart disease. So some people have naturally high

00:48:17.120 levels. And so next time you get a blood test, add an L-P little a or lipoprotein A and an ApoB.

00:48:25.040 I also recommend generally adding a fasting glucose and insulin. And L-P little a is probably one of the

00:48:32.220 best predictors of early heart disease. I believe it should be a public health screening tool,

00:48:37.520 but the medical establishment is very slow. The data on it is very strong, but we may not hear

00:48:44.300 about this as a guideline for a long time. So they're pushing instead to get those heart

00:48:50.060 defibrillators everywhere, which is great if you have a heart attack, but it'd be much better if we

00:48:54.660 could prevent one. Yeah. I mean, we get so lost in our priorities. We can't see the forest from the

00:48:59.700 trees. I mean, when I see a patient now, anybody, it'll, the electronic health record will flag

00:49:06.040 in a sort of warning. This person has not had the third COVID booster shot.

00:49:13.540 Meanwhile, the public health community has got this pile on. We're pouring raw sewage into the

00:49:19.940 Potomac River. Is that a public health concern? It's like they can't see the forest from the trees.

00:49:26.080 It's like when the Pima Indians got obesity and diabetes from government food, NIH researchers

00:49:32.580 descended to test their blood to see if they had a gene predisposing them. No, the government food

00:49:38.560 was junk food for 30 years causing obesity. They can't see the forest from the trees.

00:49:43.600 The forest and the trees are distinguished in this book, Blind Spots by Dr. Marty McCary,

00:49:49.180 M-A-K-A-R-Y, Blind Spots, When Medicine Gets It Wrong and What It Means for Our Health.

00:49:54.140 On the front, an essential read by Dr. Peter Atiyah, who's also been great on all this stuff.

00:50:01.140 Good luck with it. Thank you so much for writing this.

00:50:03.240 Thanks. Thanks for having me.

00:50:04.200 God bless you. And thanks for all your great work during COVID too.

00:50:10.360 My next guest has a fascinating life story. He came to the U.S. as a young boy and eventually

00:50:16.340 became a powerful leader in Silicon Valley. They say he has the Midas touch. Over a decade ago,

00:50:22.740 he founded AngelList, which was dubbed the match.com for investors and startups, matching them up

00:50:30.420 together. He later invested in companies like Twitter and Uber early on. He's known for influencing

00:50:36.280 and helping a whole generation of entrepreneurs, but not just with tips on how to become wealthy,

00:50:41.040 but on how to live a healthy, happy, and meaningful life. One of his pursuits has been philosophy.

00:50:48.040 And recently he's been speaking out more politically, worried about the direction this country is in,

00:50:53.880 going in, and the threat of censorship. Recently posting on X, they want to punish you for your

00:50:59.860 words because they can't punish you for your thoughts. Joining me now, Naval Ravikant. Naval,

00:51:06.200 thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me, Megan.

00:51:08.800 So I love your backstory. I think it's really interesting. And I think as somebody who was in

00:51:13.060 New York for 17 years, um, a tip of the hat to Stuyvesant is welcome. And I'd love to hear about

00:51:19.300 it because this is a great school that the left has been trying to change for quite some time now

00:51:25.040 because they don't, they don't much like it. You went there at David Axelrod, I think went there.

00:51:29.120 A lot of great, uh, Americans went there and it was, it made all the difference.

00:51:34.640 Yeah. Stuyvesant was an incredible school. That's where I got my real education. Uh,

00:51:38.560 it's a math and science magnet school in New York city. It's open by pure merit-based admissions

00:51:43.980 testing. You basically take an exam. If your score is high enough, you get in. If it's not,

00:51:48.360 you don't, at least that's how it used to be until they tried to change it. I think that effort was

00:51:52.160 somewhat, at least somewhat unsuccessful, but it was attacked on the basis of being merit-based.

00:51:57.440 And Brian Kaplan, the libertarian economist has this funny definition of left versus right,

00:52:02.280 which I think is actually quite accurate where he says leftists are people who hate market

00:52:06.600 outcomes. And by markets, he means, uh, both free markets and evolution slash nature.

00:52:12.380 So they don't like inequality and, you know, blame it on all kinds of things that you're familiar

00:52:17.000 with, but the leftists hate market outcomes and rightists are people who hate leftists.

00:52:22.120 They're sort of a bunch of people who just want to be left alone. That's why they're sort of a

00:52:25.420 ragtag disorganized bunch. And you get free market conservatives combined with pro-lifers combined

00:52:30.780 with gun owners, et cetera. It's sort of a coalition of all the people who are like,

00:52:34.640 stop trying to fix everything. It's fine. So, uh, essentially, uh, because Stuyvesant is a merit-based

00:52:40.980 system, it flies in the face of a classic, you know, call it Marxist or leftist philosophy,

00:52:46.580 which wants equal outcomes for everybody. Uh, and so they kind of tried to break the system,

00:52:50.980 but I think Stuyvesant was a better education than almost any college. I can imagine it was a great

00:52:56.340 melting pot, a great way to integrate all the immigrant kids coming into New York, um, to steep them

00:53:01.560 in science and math, which I think is frankly, the foundation for how we move human civilization

00:53:06.360 forward through building technology and scientific discoveries. Um, and it's a, it's a wonderful place

00:53:11.540 and it needs to be promoted. Uh, Thomas soul went there, Phil Donahue went there. And it's one of

00:53:18.300 those things, as you point out, yes, purely merit-based you get in based on this one test or

00:53:21.680 you don't get in, but the left has been trying to say, no, there's not enough diversity there.

00:53:25.080 We need to change the standards. Um, that hasn't worked out so well at the college level. And we

00:53:30.800 had the affirmative action ruling just last year, which is now really changed the way college

00:53:36.900 admissions are supposed to be done. I don't know whether it's in fact changing all of the college

00:53:40.500 admissions, but it appears that at least at MIT, they did take the ruling to heart as they must

00:53:46.220 because it's now the Supreme law and, um, national review posting a very interesting

00:53:51.300 look at what happened at MIT in this first class. That's post the affirmative action

00:53:57.740 admissions, uh, ruling for the incoming class of 2028, the percentage of Asian American students

00:54:03.520 increased markedly from 40 to 47%. The percentage of black students dropped from 15% to 5%. Hispanic

00:54:10.700 students dropped from 16% to 11%. The percentage of white students stayed roughly the same. The

00:54:17.640 conclusion being by national review and our pal rich Lowry, they absolutely were obviously working

00:54:22.900 to keep out meritorious Asian American applicants. And what's happening now is all of the black

00:54:30.220 students and the Hispanic students who are in will not have to deal with the looks at them by other

00:54:36.860 people wondering whether they got in because they checked a box. They are there because they deserve to

00:54:42.380 be there period. Well, it's a question if some of these universities are going to follow these rules

00:54:47.820 anyway. Like I think I saw something about how Princeton and Yale, basically nothing has changed,

00:54:52.240 uh, because they have the essay, they have essay questions and they kind of have a way to sneak

00:54:56.720 around, not explicitly asking for the race. Um, that said, you know, the problem at the core is, uh,

00:55:03.460 cultural and incentive base. As long as the people in the university system believe in affirmative

00:55:07.680 action, we're going to have affirmative action despite Supreme court rulings, because they'll just

00:55:11.860 violate it on individual basis. And that's the pernicious things about these modern religions

00:55:16.420 like Marxism, where as if the individuals believe so strongly in the religion that they're going to

00:55:22.320 follow it to a T no matter what, um, then top down enforcement doesn't matter because they'll just

00:55:27.260 break the rules on an individual basis. So I think culturally the institutions are going to continue

00:55:31.840 to be this way. And it's, it's fundamental to the nature of institutions themselves. There's a small

00:55:36.960 number of institutions that can stay true to mission, but the vast majority of institutions

00:55:40.920 automatically get corrupted. And the larger the institution, the more corrupt it is. And the

00:55:45.620 reason for that is because a group needs consensus to stay together or a group to stay together.

00:55:50.900 Every one of the group has to be happy and to agree with each other. So groups can't change their

00:55:55.120 mind. And because they're consensus based, uh, they, it's all about making everybody get along.

00:56:00.860 And if that sounds familiar, that's the core tenet of sort of these, uh, you know, equality,

00:56:05.400 Marxism kind of movements where everybody has to agree, everybody has to get along.

00:56:09.000 Whereas nature and free markets, as I mentioned earlier, these are merit-based systems and a

00:56:13.420 merit-based system. You do have a hierarchy. There is a top gorilla, there is a top dog.

00:56:17.620 And so I think generally these highly, uh, you know, mob based institutions where everybody gets an

00:56:23.580 equal say, regardless of merit, they tend to degenerate. And so I think universities are just

00:56:28.200 in that slow degeneration cycle, just like mass media. And so luckily the internet is offering us

00:56:34.400 a decentralized alternative. Um, the internet has this weird property where it consolidates

00:56:39.800 everything into one giant hegemonic winner, and then into a billion little tiny competitors.

00:56:45.420 So as an example, we replaced a whole bunch of, uh, local stores like Target and Walmart with one

00:56:51.440 giant Amazon and a million little sellers in Shopify and eBay. Uh, we replaced, uh, dozens of local cap,

00:56:57.820 uh, you know, local monopoly cab companies with one Uber and maybe a Lyft, uh, and then, you know,

00:57:03.960 maybe people that are self-driving Teslas. So it's sort of the nature of the internet that it offers us

00:57:09.480 alternatives like homeschooling. And I think, and hope by the time my kids are, uh, you know, old

00:57:14.260 enough that college won't even be an important thing. People will realize that it's just a stamp.

00:57:18.220 Now it's a credentialing institution that you get for admission into the elite class. And it doesn't

00:57:23.020 really have a whole lot to do with education. Uh, if anything, it's more, you know, brainwashing,

00:57:27.880 hanging out with your peers, paid daycare, paid vacation, what have you. Um, and in our society,

00:57:33.060 it's a, it's, it's a bridge between, uh, young adulthood and actual adulthood where you can go

00:57:38.740 and sort of park your car for a while and come of age and have a bunch of fun and make a bunch of

00:57:43.200 friends. But yeah, as a learning activity, I'm not sure it's anything like what it used to be.

00:57:47.300 Well, the, the, the means for learning are now abundant. You can go on YouTube and, uh,

00:57:53.000 under the internet and get everything you want in terms of classes and learning, but it's the

00:57:56.600 desire to learn that's scarce. Very few people actually want to learn most things. So college

00:58:00.700 is a checkbox. And the easiest way to see that is if we said, okay, you can go to college, but you

00:58:04.480 wouldn't get a diploma, which is still do it. You wouldn't get a credential. You wouldn't do it.

00:58:09.460 So I think the best move now is just to get admitted to a Stanford or an MIT drop out and put the

00:58:14.400 admission letter on your wall. Uh, exactly. More and more people are doing that. I mean,

00:58:20.140 I don't like, what do you make of it? Cause I know you're big on books. You're an avid,

00:58:23.520 avid reader. And there are a lot of us who are raising kids right now who want them to be avid

00:58:28.260 readers and want them to sort of be self-educating in the way that you did your entire life up until

00:58:32.340 now. But we're up against tech. We're up against these overachieving sports communities where it's

00:58:38.800 like every waking minute you'll be playing X, you know, not X though, the formerly known as Twitter,

00:58:44.100 but you know, some sport. So you'll get into the best college. Like how do you foster

00:58:47.820 in your family, the things that you say are important, like this love of reading?

00:58:53.960 You can't really, I mean, I can't force my kids to read either. Their attention spans are shot

00:58:57.820 because of the age of iPad and social media. Um, that said what matters are not books. The number

00:59:04.040 of books read is a pure vanity metric. What matters are the ideas. Do you understand the core ideas

00:59:08.640 and you understand them when you want to understand them. For example, if you were to travel back in time

00:59:13.680 and you were to tell people some important little tidbits of knowledge, you would start with the

00:59:18.240 atomic structure of nature. You would start with, uh, the germ theory of disease. Um, you would start

00:59:23.920 with maybe equals MC squared or force equals mass time acceleration, depending on where you want to

00:59:28.580 start them in the physics journey. But there's just a small amount of knowledge that you kind of have to

00:59:33.440 understand and learn. Uh, David Deutsch, who's my current favorite, uh, scientific author. Um, he talks about

00:59:39.840 this in the fabric of reality that there's basically four great explanations that can be used to explain

00:59:44.800 at a high level, almost everything going on in the world. And so if you understand epistemology,

00:59:49.140 which is just a theory of knowledge, uh, if you understand evolution by natural selection,

00:59:53.800 if you understand quantum computation, if you understand quantum physics, at least even at high

00:59:57.640 levels, then you've got the framework to understand almost everything else, including philosophy,

01:00:02.520 including politics, including art, including beauty, uh, including mimetics and ideas and so on.

01:00:07.820 Uh, so I think it's more about understanding the really important things. And the good news about the

01:00:12.900 important things is that if you understand them well, then you can actually explain reality. This is

01:00:18.740 why relativism that says, you know, every kind of science is valid or every belief is valid is not

01:00:23.000 correct. Like you can't launch rockets by not understanding physics. I mean, you can't navigate even your

01:00:29.180 own life, learning how to make money or how to be happy if you have bad knowledge, if you have bad

01:00:35.040 explanations. So good explanations do tests do match up to reality much better. And so with my kids, I just

01:00:42.360 always try to teach them the important things, but honestly, you can't teach kids anything. You know, they

01:00:48.160 learn on their own. They learn because they're curious. They learn because they want to. Uh, and so for

01:00:52.560 those are the four subject areas that I need to understand in order to understand life, you have just

01:00:56.200 explained why I'm so confused all the time. I'm going to start reading more. There's definitely more. Like for

01:01:02.040 example, human psychology, right? I'll give you, I'll give you a quick example on different one, human

01:01:05.820 psychology. It's very popular these days to say, okay, you know, why, why is so-and-so depressed?

01:01:11.220 Well, they're depressed because of a chemical imbalance in their brain. So we're going to go

01:01:14.500 ahead and give them a pill. Well, everything is a chemical imbalance in your brain. Even my

01:01:18.600 consciousness is a chemical imbalance in my brain. My, my attitude, my mood, uh, my speaking to you is a

01:01:24.160 chemical imbalance in your brain. So this is one of those explanations that is the wrong level. It explains

01:01:28.460 everything going on my brain. So it actually explains nothing. It's like saying, you know,

01:01:32.240 why are we talking right now on this call? Well, it's because of part of the pollution since the

01:01:36.200 big bang cause and effect. And here we are, well, that explains everything. So it explains nothing.

01:01:40.860 So instead we have to look at an explanation at the right level. And, you know, if, if I'm depressed,

01:01:45.680 it might be because things aren't going my way. It might be a habit that I adopted when I was young.

01:01:50.080 And yes, there definitely, there are genetic predilections and chemical imbalances that

01:01:54.980 predispose me to it. And maybe I take the pill or I take the medicine to make myself a little

01:01:58.860 happier and less depressed so I can function while I solve my underlying problems, but approaching it

01:02:04.060 as purely a chemical imbalance is the wrong level of explanation. So I try to explain this to my kids.

01:02:09.240 So for example, you know, if they get angry or if they get unhappy, um, you know, I, I try not to

01:02:14.520 use words. I can say like, well, why are you angry? Like, why are you unhappy? Or don't be angry.

01:02:18.880 Instead I'll say like, why are you making yourself unhappy? Because ultimately every feeling you have

01:02:23.440 inside of you, you are causing it to yourself at some deep level. And I think being able to

01:02:28.560 take agency for that and realize that is important. And of course I have to live that. The only way I

01:02:33.160 can raise my children is by being an example for them. And everything I say, they're going to ignore

01:02:37.320 it and do the opposite anyway, especially when they go to college, because at that point, they're trying

01:02:41.020 to, uh, get in with their peers. The whole point of young adulthood is to break away from your

01:02:46.240 parents, not make their same mistakes, not do the things that they did and to establish your

01:02:50.020 independence. And the way you do that is by completely ignoring them or do the opposite of

01:02:53.860 what they want you to do. Yeah, that's right. That's why you have to be careful of being too

01:02:57.760 overbearing as a parent with your own individual beliefs, whether they're political or some other

01:03:02.740 lane, because they will get to the rebellious period. And then the things you hold most dear

01:03:08.060 may be in jeopardy. That's why you don't have to put like, don't put too much stock and you're

01:03:12.580 going to be this way. And our family is this way because they could, they could fly the coop pretty

01:03:16.480 quickly as soon as they hit those teenage years. I've, I've never met an adult, you know, and I

01:03:21.760 think this would be even true of prisoners or people who ended up in bad places in their life

01:03:25.380 who say, I wish my parents had controlled me more when I was a kid and told me more what to do.

01:03:29.780 Right. Everybody wants more independent. Everybody wants to figure it out for themselves.

01:03:33.420 It's just human nature. Well, so having read so much and devolved, you know, or sort of gotten to

01:03:39.820 the point where you realize there are categories of, of information that can help you understand the

01:03:44.240 world. Explain what is happening in the United States of America right now, because we're feeling

01:03:48.920 extremely fractured. We're there. I'll tell you my perspective. I hear from our audience all the time

01:03:55.420 about these tightening polls. They don't understand how half the country can be getting ready to vote

01:04:00.440 for Kamala Harris. They don't get that. People don't see the stakes of this election, the open border,

01:04:06.340 the way the country is fundamentally changing what we're doing to our children when it comes to this

01:04:11.420 crazy race, you know, critical race theory and gender ideology. And so like that, a lot of my

01:04:17.560 audience just doesn't get how people can be getting ready to vote for that and are getting worried.

01:04:22.940 I think that with this election coming, we could have unified government controlled by Kamala Harris,

01:04:29.700 who many of us think is a know nothing. And I think if you zoom back, you ask yourself,

01:04:35.500 how did we get here? Like, what is happening to this country? And what do you think the answer is?

01:04:40.620 I mean, this is a very complex topic. And, you know, most causes are overdetermined. There's a

01:04:47.140 lot of things going on. But I'll just throw out a few ideas. First is that I think most voters these

01:04:53.580 days are single issue voters. They're not multiple issue voters. So for example, a large part of

01:04:58.040 Harris's coalition are women who are upset about the Dobbs ruling, which was kind of a big self-own for

01:05:02.860 the Republicans. And so I think they're just going to vote on that single issue. And so every each

01:05:10.080 political party is a coalition of these single issue voters. So I think that's one thing to think

01:05:14.040 about. And there are some dominant single issues that are driving the left, just like there are on

01:05:18.740 the right. But, you know, that may help frame like, why do they not care about the fact that her

01:05:22.600 economic policies are disastrous? Well, because they're focused on abortion, right? Second is that

01:05:28.660 Nassim Taleb has a great framework where he says the most intolerant minority wins. And if you look

01:05:34.200 through human history, all change, all revolution, all success, it does not come from the masses or

01:05:39.040 the majority. It comes from a small organized group. So the largest minority you can build that

01:05:45.300 is heavily organized, that's what wins. And the left has a very clean and clear message, which is we're

01:05:50.740 all equal. You know, it's all based on your identity. That's where your differentiation and

01:05:54.800 diversity comes in, not on ideology or capability. Like if you can do more than somebody else, if

01:05:59.660 you're better at something than anybody else, that's not diversity. The diversity is based on

01:06:03.040 skin color and gender and identity and sexual proclivities. And so that is a very powerful

01:06:08.540 frame because it actually makes you a single issue voter against the one thing you can't get away from,

01:06:14.220 your identity. Now set aside, the more closely you identify with something that's out of your

01:06:18.700 control, the more miserable you're going to be in life in general. But that is a very powerful

01:06:22.500 frame. So I view this as modern religion. Christianity sort of, you know, is dying.

01:06:28.420 And why is Christianity dying? Well, because there were a lot of beliefs that went with Christianity

01:06:31.920 that don't really upgrade well into the modern age. When you see technology and you look out with a

01:06:36.220 telescope and you see the stars and now thanks to technology of things like contraception, like

01:06:41.100 Christianity looks more and more obsolete. But that religious instinct in humans doesn't go away.

01:06:46.520 Ultimately, existence is a miracle. How did I get here? Who am I? How am I conscious? What the

01:06:51.440 heck is going on? Why am I a monkey? Why am I on a Zoom call, right? So the miracle of existence

01:06:56.880 still begs to be explained. So there's a powerful religious instinct within humans. And the world is a

01:07:02.700 dark and lonely place if you feel alone. And so we do have a natural tendency to group together. And the

01:07:10.460 left has identified the modern way to do that is through a new religion. And that's why I keep referring

01:07:15.900 to Marxism or a lot of the more extreme leftism as a new religion, because you can't challenge

01:07:21.180 this dogma. It has blasphemy. There are certain things you can't say. But the key thing they've

01:07:25.460 done in this religion, they've gotten rid of Jesus. Now, the main sinner, the devil, is man. And the

01:07:32.080 heaven is the pristine Gaia-like earth that was here before we got here. And there's no hope of salvation

01:07:38.020 or redemption. We're only evil. So the only way to basically solve this dilemma of how do you prevent

01:07:44.000 men and women from destroying the garden of paradise is you basically have to throw them

01:07:50.000 out of Eden completely. You have to destroy them, which is why there are so many anti-fertility

01:07:54.460 arguments on the left. There's so many deep growth arguments on the left. It's all about we're

01:07:58.100 destroying the world. We're ending the world. There's like a doomerism that goes on, including

01:08:02.600 in AI or in the, you know, we're going to blow ourselves to pieces or we're going to run out

01:08:08.160 of resources. There's all these different fallacies, let alone the fact that, you know, to cave

01:08:12.620 man, nothing is a resource and resources are a byproduct of knowledge. We make things into a

01:08:16.780 resource. But so I think there's sort of this millennialism religion that is succeeding

01:08:22.400 Christianity. So the way I think about it is that since I got to the U.S. in 1983 as a young kid,

01:08:29.420 I've always lived in a highly religious country. This is a very religious country. Remember, it was

01:08:33.820 founded by the people who were too much of religious fanatics to stick around in Europe. So they had to

01:08:38.840 leave, right? And they had to shove off to the United States to practice their religion freely.

01:08:43.540 And so we had Christianity and we still do in some parts of the country, but it is being supplanted by

01:08:48.980 another religion that is actually more viral, more modern, and much more blame casting on humans.

01:08:56.960 And it can do that through the mechanism of abundance. The United States is the richest,

01:09:01.000 most powerful country in the world. It has at least historically been the best managed,

01:09:04.920 had the most natural resources. People are incredibly wealthy, and they can use this

01:09:09.600 abundance to basically set up a giant church and virtue signal to the rest of the world. So

01:09:14.240 I think that's where we are. Last thing I would add is that technology...

01:09:17.940 Yeah, go ahead.

01:09:18.760 The thing I was going to add is that culture is downstream of technology.

01:09:22.000 And so what technology does is that technology changes things that culture follows. So for example,

01:09:26.980 imagine what the world would be like if we didn't have contraception. We'd probably be living in much

01:09:31.680 larger families. There'd be less single people. There'd be less stuff going on in cities.

01:09:36.560 And we care much more about the family unit. So that is a clear case where technology changed

01:09:40.960 outcomes. Another technology is what we're communicating through. That allows us to be

01:09:45.440 more disparate to live where we want. And it culturally changes. Do you want to do remote work

01:09:49.520 or do you want to go to work or not? The gun is a technology, right? And that indicates how much

01:09:53.900 freedom you have. If you have a gun, if you can 3D print a gun and you can't stop somebody from 3D

01:09:57.920 printing a gun, then that gives them more freedom of a certain kind. So technology itself changes

01:10:05.060 politics and culture. And one of the things technology is doing is technology increases

01:10:10.200 leverage. It increases free leverage. So for example, I can talk to millions of people now

01:10:16.120 through this podcast and recording, which I could not have done 20, 30, 50 years ago when I had to go

01:10:22.580 on TV. And 100 years ago, it was basically impossible. So technology increases leverage.

01:10:27.140 Well, leverage increases the gap between the haves and the have-nots. It does lift everybody up.

01:10:34.980 So technology and prosperity and capitalism have made everybody much, much, much richer and lifted

01:10:40.680 people out of poverty. But it increases that inequality gap because the winners win much bigger

01:10:45.600 because they have technological leverage. And wealth is a modern invention. It's only about 5,000

01:10:51.260 years old as you can carry anything on your back that had any value. So as monkeys, we are evolved

01:10:56.660 to be highly status-seeking and status-oriented. And so when we see somebody much higher up than us

01:11:02.300 in wealth due to technology, we become extremely jealous and we want to bring that monkey down.

01:11:07.080 And that is fundamentally a collectivist and leftist impulse.

01:11:11.740 Oh, gosh, this is so interesting. I'm learning a lot. And it sounds exactly right. I mean,

01:11:15.440 we've short-formed that to wokeism as a religion and that it's part of the problem. Part of the problem

01:11:20.060 that led to it is the absence of God in the public square. This was founded as a Judeo-Christian

01:11:24.000 nation. And slowly but surely, it's been losing its tether to those core beliefs and core principles,

01:11:30.080 too, that come from it, though the latter should stick around even though the former is leaving.

01:11:34.700 You know, you mentioned something about how the left, one of the signs of the left's

01:11:38.380 treating wokeism as a religion is there's blasphemy. You're not allowed to say certain

01:11:43.260 things or you'll be kicked out of the cult. And that's absolutely true. And just today,

01:11:47.840 you know, FIRE, which is a great organization, the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression,

01:11:51.860 they keep a finger on the pulse of all college campuses and free speech and how we're doing.

01:11:57.460 And they just released a headline out today from their latest free speech survey. The headline is,

01:12:03.340 two-thirds of college students believe it is acceptable to shout down speakers on campus.

01:12:09.060 Two-thirds think that's something you do need to do sometimes. Depends on the situation. But

01:12:14.200 seven percent said it's always acceptable. Just go for it. Anybody you disagree with,

01:12:18.580 shout them down. 30 percent, sometimes 32, rarely, but it is acceptable. And only 32 percent said it's

01:12:24.400 never acceptable. For what it's worth, they say the best universities for free speech are UVA and

01:12:29.240 Florida State, the worst, Harvard, Columbia, and basically all of the Ivy League. I'm sure you're

01:12:35.900 not surprised. Freedom of speech is a natural right. You can open your mouth and you can talk. It's

01:12:42.040 there, God given to you from the day you're born. And then when the government steps in and tries to

01:12:47.020 take it away, that's sort of the ultimate form of control. It may be helpful to think about it in

01:12:52.360 physical terms. Forget digital where you're being censored in the so-called town square. But it's

01:12:58.040 more, imagine somebody came to your house and every time you tried to say something and they didn't like

01:13:02.120 it, they would put a hand over your mouth. That lets you understand immediately that to restrict

01:13:08.180 freedom of speech, to have censorship, you need violence. It is inherently linked. Censorship is

01:13:14.100 inherently violent. It prevents you from saying what you would say. The physical instantiation

01:13:19.060 would be to put a gag on your mouth like in a prison or in a gulag or in a concentration camp.

01:13:24.640 So I do not think that is something we can let slide easily. Misinformation, hate speech,

01:13:29.940 all of this stuff is complete nonsense because who gets to define misinformation? Who gets to define

01:13:35.260 hate speech? The test of a good system is you establish the rules and then you put your worst enemy

01:13:40.060 in charge and then you see how fair it is. So to the people who want to censor misinformation,

01:13:44.600 great. Put Donald Trump in charge of deciding what is misinformation, what's hate speech,

01:13:49.360 and you will very quickly regret the power that you gave out. So to me, that is a bright line.

01:13:54.260 That is a bright line. The First Amendment, anyone who violates the First Amendment, anyone who basically

01:13:58.920 says that, no, I get to decide or some godlike censor who gets to hear everything and say everything

01:14:04.200 gets to decide what is acceptable and can be said and can't be said. Those people are,

01:14:09.360 you know, I have no quarter with them. Those people are my sworn enemies because

01:14:13.520 they are going to drive the world into ruin. All the progress that comes in science comes from

01:14:19.660 original blasphemies, from things that you were not allowed to say, you were not allowed to talk

01:14:24.020 about, you were not allowed to think about. And if you want to start muzzling people, then I would say

01:14:28.260 because of these inherent and violent tendencies, we should be starting by showing you, you know,

01:14:33.500 what muzzling is and muzzling you first. People talk about the, you know, the fire in a crowded

01:14:40.420 theater ruling a lot. You know, that one comes up a lot. They're like, well, you know, there are

01:14:43.780 limits on freedom of speech. It's actually not true. If you go and you look at the fire in a crowded

01:14:47.780 theater ruling, I believe it was being made against a draft dodger trying to get, you know, put him in

01:14:52.380 jail for not going to war. And subsequent Supreme Court rulings and cases and commentaries have made it

01:14:58.160 pretty clear that that was a wartime ruling that even those members of the Supreme Court regret. And

01:15:03.620 there are basically no limitations on free speech, like a lot of internet commentators like to think

01:15:09.080 there are. And then I think related to that, and this is why I'm a big proponent of the Second

01:15:13.280 Amendment, because any rights, any, any rights that, you know, we always are challenged with by from the

01:15:22.140 government or from statists, they have to be defended. Otherwise, it's just an idea. Look at what's

01:15:26.800 happening in Britain, where freedom of speech is essentially on the run. If you don't have the

01:15:31.960 ability to stand up for yourself, then all of these rights will be taken from you. The logic of violence

01:15:39.220 dictates the structure of society. I hate to say it, but at the end of it, it's still nature. We're

01:15:43.460 still animals and nature is right in tooth and claw. If you do not have the ability to defend your rights

01:15:48.060 and your beliefs, they will be taken from you. If you look at the COVID lockdowns, the lockdown started

01:15:52.580 ending first in the West in the red states. And why in the red states? Because that's where people love

01:15:57.700 freedom in their arms. So the government can't stop them. It's 40 million intransigent Americans with guns

01:16:03.340 that keep basically the world free. If the US were to fall and turn into an authoritarian regime, I don't

01:16:10.080 think Australia, Great Britain, Canada, New Zealand, you know, all these countries, Western Europe would survive for

01:16:15.480 that long on their own. Most of the world is run by authoritarian societies or at least half of it,

01:16:19.740 roughly. So it's not a pretty place. North Korea is a giant gulag. You know, it's price speaking

01:16:24.740 freedom, the Chinese state or the Russian state. So if we don't want to end up that way, we need to

01:16:29.480 have freedom of speech. And if we need freedom of speech, then we need to have the right to bear arms

01:16:33.320 to be able to back up that freedom of speech.

01:16:35.840 There's so much in there. Let's talk about that censorship first, because I saw you calling attention

01:16:39.560 to this on X yesterday. It did not escape our notice either. Kamala Harris is very pro,

01:16:44.600 very pro censorship. Here she was back in 2019, espousing some of this. Listen.

01:16:51.400 And we'll put the Department of Justice of the United States back in the business of justice.

01:16:58.440 We will double the civil rights division and direct law enforcement to counter this extremism.

01:17:05.660 We will hold social media platforms accountable for the hate infiltrating their platforms because

01:17:13.840 they have a responsibility to help fight against this threat to our democracy.

01:17:20.700 And if you profit off of hate, if you act as a megaphone for misinformation or cyber warfare,

01:17:29.760 if you don't police your platforms, we are going to hold you accountable as a community.

01:17:39.960 Wow.

01:17:40.860 Yeah, that's pretty scary. I mean, look, the people who are running around saying that,

01:17:46.900 you know, things are a threat to democracy are usually, in my experience, the threats to democracy.

01:17:50.620 And people like to think that evil comes dressed as evil, right? They think it wears like a little

01:17:57.320 Nazi uniform, marches around and gives salutes. No, of course. I mean, evil always disguises itself

01:18:02.540 as good. You know, this is something I try to teach my kids. And evil comes from the desire to

01:18:08.300 coerce. It comes from the desire to fix other people. Ironically, these people have the most broken

01:18:14.300 lives on their own. They're miserable. You know, they don't necessarily have like, you know,

01:18:19.160 happy home lives. They don't have their, you know, they don't have their stuff worked out.

01:18:24.240 But they want to fix everybody else's problems. And they think they know what's right for everybody

01:18:29.060 else. It's that desire to coerce. It's that road to hell being paid, paid with good intentions.

01:18:34.040 That's the problem. I think Ronald Reagan said it well when he said, you know, I'm here from the

01:18:38.460 government and I'm here to help. That's like the scariest words in the English language.

01:18:42.520 That's right. So on the subject of the Second Amendment, back in the news today,

01:18:48.120 after the school shooting in Georgia, which is a pretty remarkable case. A 14-year-old boy

01:18:53.640 goes in, starts shooting, kills two students and two teachers. But the school itself handled the

01:19:01.120 actual emergency, I mean, about as well as you could ask a school to handle it. They had ID badges,

01:19:06.680 all the teachers, which had buttons on them in case there was an emergency. Three times,

01:19:12.220 if it's just a regular emergency, and press it over and over and over again if it's a serious

01:19:16.040 emergency. Apparently, the teachers were doing that. All of the doors to the classrooms

01:19:20.160 automatically locked. And according to the students, he did try to get into one classroom

01:19:24.460 first and that door was locked. He could knock it in. He then went to a second classroom in which

01:19:28.880 the door was open. And unfortunately, it looks like that's where his victims' lives were taken.

01:19:34.100 There were school resource officers on the scene who almost immediately confronted him and got him

01:19:40.160 to surrender. I haven't seen it covered as to whether or not they were armed. I'm sure they were.

01:19:44.500 They generally don't publicize that kind of thing, the good guys meaning. And this carnage could have

01:19:50.260 been much worse, but it was bad enough to begin with. And now we are having the typical divide that

01:19:55.220 we see after all of these shootings and school shootings in particular about whether this is about

01:20:02.300 bad or crazy people or whether it is about the ubiquitous access to guns in America. And I'd love to

01:20:11.340 know your thoughts on it. I will point out for the record, his father is now under arrest because for

01:20:15.880 some reason, this guy decided after his kid was flagged as a potential school shooter and interviewed by

01:20:21.480 law enforcement a year ago, after that, the dad bought this kid a gun, which is just insane. Yeah. I mean,

01:20:29.060 and now he's facing charges. Guns are a tool, just like computers are a tool. Money is a tool and they

01:20:35.580 get used for terrible and horrible things, but you can't just disarm society because there are

01:20:40.820 school shooters and there are robbers and there are thieves and there are murderers. Those people

01:20:45.600 will always exist. They will always get access to weaponry and a long enough timescale, the way

01:20:50.060 technology is going, they're going to get access to all the weaponry they want. They'll just build a 3D

01:20:54.440 print guns or you'll be able to, you know, create explosives in your backyard. Technology is just

01:20:59.220 getting better and better in that regard. So these are tools. And unfortunately, you know, your choice

01:21:05.060 is either you can live in a gulag where a small number of people have guns and they control everything

01:21:09.120 going in and out, or you can live in a free society that is going to have these issues. And what you do

01:21:13.740 there is you educate people. You know, you, people are armed in self-defense and you try to make the best

01:21:20.240 way you can, but it's trying to violate an iron law of nature to say that, you know, one monkey is

01:21:24.820 going to go around and defang and declaw all the other monkeys. Like that's just, that's the recipe

01:21:29.520 for the gulag archipelago. So yeah, the school shootings are awful, but keep in mind, like if you

01:21:35.000 look at terrorism, if you look at school shootings, what do they go after? They go after, it's usually a

01:21:40.460 deranged individual who will go after a large massed group. I actually think the problem is

01:21:45.880 institutional schooling. So if, if schools were six person schools happening in people's

01:21:50.520 backyard, it'd be a very different story. If one kid started getting unhinged, the other five would

01:21:54.900 know. This is because of the industrialization of society. There's a reason why, you know, terrorists

01:22:00.040 blow up large airliners or try to hit trains or bridges, because these are large things. Humans are

01:22:04.620 not meant to live in trustless societies and massive, massive groups. The Dunbar number, which is how many

01:22:11.040 people you can get to know and keep track of is pretty small. It's about 120 to 150 people.

01:22:15.220 We're meant to live in smaller, higher trust societies. And I think just aggregating people

01:22:20.100 into large, low trust elements like schools or public schools are not the right answer for the

01:22:25.780 future. I'm much more of an advocate of pods, homeschools, small schools, local schools,

01:22:30.960 local government, you know, state government, shrinking everything down to the size where people

01:22:36.760 know each other. But we've now come up with these societies where people move around. We're

01:22:41.260 disconnected from friends and family. We're disconnected from larger families.

01:22:44.780 We're disconnected from our neighbors. And we rely on the government to build trust and to maintain

01:22:50.540 trust in everything. And that's going to end up a very violent and controlled place where someone

01:22:55.220 top down is looking down and saying, oh, you thousand people have nothing in common, but we're going to

01:22:59.540 shove you all in the same small area, force you to go to school because, you know, a lot of kids are

01:23:03.940 just forced to go to school. You're miserable here. And if one of you snaps, too bad. There's lots of

01:23:09.280 being a small enclosed space. One of the interesting things about homeschooling is homeschool kids don't get

01:23:14.300 bullied, even by the usual bullies, because the bullies know that in the homeschooling situation, if

01:23:19.720 you're meeting with other kids, you're meeting by choice. It's like, I can't bully you. You can't bully

01:23:23.960 adults because they'll just leave. The reason why bullying works against kids is because there's this

01:23:28.240 enforced little prison environment where they can't leave. I had a little quip on Twitter that, you know,

01:23:33.940 schools are prisons for the lucky kids and prisons are schools for the unlucky kids. And I don't think

01:23:39.240 there's as much of a difference from them as we would like to make it out to be. Mandatory schooling

01:23:44.400 where kids are shoved off to school every day. I get it. I get why we do it. It's daycare for kids. So

01:23:49.300 the adults can go about their business. But the industrialized education system is basically putting

01:23:55.860 kids in a mini prison until they're 18, 20, 21, trying to brainwash them often unsuccessfully,

01:24:02.880 and then shoving them out in the real world and saying, okay, now you're adults. Now here's a

01:24:06.780 gun. Here's a right to vote. Here's your alcohol. Go make some good decisions.

01:24:12.420 Well, that's a very bleak outlook. And I don't think you're wrong about a lot of the school

01:24:15.540 systems, though. I will say I actually love our schools.

01:24:18.120 Yeah. I don't, I don't want to be bleak. I do think things are getting better. Why are they

01:24:21.760 getting better? Well, when a school choice, the school choice movement makes so much sense.

01:24:25.880 The reason why Stuyvesant was great.

01:24:27.520 I'll say like we had schools that we did not much like that we do. We did feel were indoctrination centers.

01:24:31.880 And now our kids are at schools that are amazing, that are exciting for them. They're fun. They

01:24:36.660 think about days that the kids can sleep in. My, my ninth grader, you know, went back to school this

01:24:42.240 week and two out of the four days he was there, they went to some, um, go-kart facilities. So the

01:24:48.740 boys could just bond with one another and have fun. And one day they did a whole day of charity where

01:24:52.680 they packed lunches for underprivileged kids. That's great stuff. Like you can find great schools

01:24:56.920 that are more than just daycare or, you know, a reason to send your kid off.

01:25:01.140 Yeah. You know, there's a funny little, uh, historical aside, mandatory schooling was,

01:25:06.460 which actually still happens a lot in Europe, uh, was created under the French and oppression

01:25:11.840 empires. Because if you're an empire and you conquer somebody and, uh, you want to brainwash

01:25:17.660 them, the current generation is lost. They hate you. But what happens is you grab their kids,

01:25:21.820 you show them in school and you doctorate them eight hours a day. And then they grow up speaking

01:25:25.580 the imperial language and the imperial culture and they're fully assimilated. I mean, look at me,

01:25:29.440 uh, India was colonized by great Britain. I speak fluent English. You know, if I go to London,

01:25:34.360 it's like being nostalgic for a place that I've never been to before. I'm like, wow, that's pretty

01:25:37.860 cool. Like I kind of know this. So I am, I am brainwashed and programmed by that empire. It works.

01:25:43.160 So mandatory schooling was to some extent done so that these imperial powers could indoctrinate the

01:25:49.020 children of the next generation. Uh, in fact, when originally I read something that Napoleon

01:25:53.780 soldiers used to have to go around and take kids by force from the peasants in the territories they

01:25:59.860 had conquered and send them off to school and the peasants would hide one kid in the basement

01:26:03.420 and say, okay, this one's going to be the free thinker. So, yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm a little more

01:26:07.860 down in industrial education. I think small scale education, homeschooling pods, uh, you know,

01:26:13.520 small schools that are run by well-meaning people who genuinely care about the kids.

01:26:18.440 That's useful. It's these industrial schools where you cram 60, 90, a hundred kids into a class.

01:26:23.940 There's a teacher who's just trying to do crowd control because there's like one or two incredibly

01:26:28.720 violent or unruly or depressed kids who are making problems for everybody, you know, and then they're

01:26:33.380 like, well, how, how do you crowd control a large group? Um, you know, if you get on an airplane,

01:26:38.080 you start making trouble immediately, the fastener seatbelt sign comes on. The stewardess,

01:26:42.280 poor stewardess has to run around threatening everybody. So the same thing happens in school. It's like,

01:26:46.120 sit down, shut up. Don't raise your hand. No, you can't go to the bathroom. Just pay attention.

01:26:50.460 Just recite this after me. You're okay. You have a problem. You need ADHD meds, you know,

01:26:54.920 go to the psychiatrist, get some medics, you know, calm down. So they, they're, the teachers are put in

01:26:59.740 this impossible situation of crowd control, uh, for a bunch of kids who are of very different

01:27:05.100 backgrounds, varieties, predilections, you know, um, some are violent, uh, some have really broken,

01:27:11.120 miserable home lives. And unfortunately, if you want to raise a kid and do it right, they need lots

01:27:15.580 and lots and lots of individual attention from someone who loves them. And there's no substitute

01:27:19.640 for that. Uh, you know, children growing up without people, without the feeling of unconditional love

01:27:24.960 and patience, um, they're going to have a really hard life. Um, you got to hold your kids now,

01:27:29.580 otherwise you're going to end up holding them later.

01:27:32.840 I couldn't agree more, or somebody is going to wind up holding them like a therapist who they're

01:27:36.700 going to have to pay a lot of money too, for bi-weekly sessions. Stand by Naval. I'm going

01:27:40.580 to take a quick break and then we're going to come back with some breaking news on Trump and his

01:27:44.460 sentencing. I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly show on Sirius XM. It's your home for open,

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01:28:49.340 Back with me now, entrepreneur Naval Ravikant. So Naval, this news just broke on the Trump

01:28:55.580 sentencing in the New York case in which he was found guilty of misrepresenting his business records.

01:29:03.940 He was supposed to be sentenced and many believed it would be to jail, uh, on the 18th of this month.

01:29:10.320 And now judge Mershon, who make no mistake about it is 100% a political actor has said,

01:29:15.940 we're not going to do it on September 18th. We are going to postpone it until after the election.

01:29:20.300 The date will be November 26th. And amazingly, this guy has the call to think we're going to believe

01:29:27.400 he's done this to, to, so as not to influence the election. He goes on, I won't read you the

01:29:34.020 whole thing, but basically says, unfortunately, we're now at a place in time that's fraught with

01:29:37.140 complexities, rendering the requirements of a sentencing hearing should one be necessary,

01:29:41.960 difficult to execute. The imposition of sentence will be adjourned to avoid any appearance,

01:29:45.780 however unwarranted that this proceeding has been affected by or seeks to affect the approaching

01:29:50.620 presidential election in which the defendant is a candidate. The court is a fair,

01:29:54.240 impartial and apolitical institution. Oh my God, I can't go on. Let me just point something out to

01:30:00.260 you that those are all lies. He's very political. We know that the prosecution is very political,

01:30:03.920 but let me tell you something. This, this judge had no choice two days before the sentencing hearing

01:30:08.920 we were, we need to have, he had, he's scheduled to make a decision on whether Trump has immunity and

01:30:14.480 whether the evidence that was introduced against Trump violates the Supreme court's ruling that you're not

01:30:21.880 allowed to introduce official acts as evidence against a former president that's been barred

01:30:26.760 thanks to the Supreme court ruling. So as soon as he ruled on that, Trump was going to take it up.

01:30:30.640 It was going to go right up an appeal and it was going to stay the whole thing anyway. So he's a

01:30:35.300 dishonest broker to the end. The left is freaking out about what does he mean? If it's, if it's necessary,

01:30:40.380 we'll hold it. What he means is he allowed in evidence. He shouldn't have allowed in the Supreme

01:30:45.440 court is going to so find. And this trial is probably, the verdict is probably going to get thrown out

01:30:50.820 long before November 26th. If the Supreme court takes it on an expedited basis,

01:30:55.360 the dishonesty by our elected officials, Naval is front and center every day.

01:31:00.180 You know, honestly, it was the law fair that kind of brought me off the sidelines. It's really

01:31:04.060 disgusting behavior because this is how you descend into a complete banana Republic with military coups

01:31:09.400 and military rule. The moment you can start weaponizing the law against your enemies selectively,

01:31:14.280 that's the beginning of the end. Uh, there was a famous dictator who said something like,

01:31:19.100 you know, for my friends, anything for my enemies, the law. Right. And what he meant by that is once

01:31:26.220 you're in charge and you get to dictate who the law applies to, you're in a very slippery slope.

01:31:31.740 Um, and slippery slopes are real by the way, as we know, um, as a, as a clear example, um,

01:31:38.900 if you were to actually look at the charges that were brought against Trump, and I actually read them

01:31:43.500 quite carefully, I mean, these were really trumped up. They were really made up. You, you, you violated

01:31:49.100 the statute of limitations. You tried to drum things up into a felony when there was no evidence of

01:31:53.320 such. It was a miscategorization of business expenses. When you have complex business dealings

01:31:58.220 like I do. And like many people do, you can always find something. So it's this selective

01:32:02.500 prosecution. It's a selective, uh, persecution that allows them to get away with this. Uh, and,

01:32:09.000 you know, uh, a lot of the progressive DA movement that comes out of George Soros and others

01:32:13.660 is based on this understanding that, Hey, actually we can choose whether or not to prosecute certain

01:32:19.440 people. And these are elected offices that are, uh, you know, that either are in territory where the

01:32:25.660 voters are really favorable to us, uh, or they're really cheap to run because there's no organized

01:32:30.920 opposition. So let's just organize and take over prosecution. That's what happened in San Francisco.

01:32:35.540 If you want the case against Kamala Harris, it's the fact that she was DA at San Francisco and San

01:32:40.280 Francisco is a mess. And in fact, afterwards she spotted, she advocated for George Gascon,

01:32:45.160 who's the guy who's destroying LA, um, through basically not prosecuting criminals and going

01:32:50.440 after business owners. So this selective prosecution thing is a disaster. You can take a deep blue or deep

01:32:56.700 red state. You can take a deep blue or deep red jury. You can basically creatively interpret these

01:33:02.300 infinite laws that we have to find anybody guilty of a crime. Like I think there's an other famous

01:33:07.020 saying, like, you know, you find me the man and I'll find you the crime or give me six sentences

01:33:11.800 written by any honest man and I will find the crime. So you can always find a crime that somebody is

01:33:17.180 guilty of violating. So the moment you start, uh, breaking down this wall and you get into weaponizing

01:33:22.580 justice, uh, you know, Hillary Clinton blew up her email server with, wiped it with bleach bit.

01:33:27.500 There was no consequences from that. Turns out the Hunter Biden laptop was real. Who knew,

01:33:32.480 right? Even though we were told it was all misinformation by the intelligence agencies.

01:33:36.320 This is the scary stuff. This is the stuff that ends a republic or turns into a one-party state,

01:33:41.100 better known as a dictatorship. China is a one-party state. North Korea is a one-party state.

01:33:46.220 So I don't use the words one-party state lightly, but I think the weaponization of the justice system,

01:33:51.200 the engagement, willingness to go into lawfare, that is the thing that will lead to violence.

01:33:56.000 That is the thing that will lead to a dissolution and a breakup, uh, and something worse in the

01:34:01.060 United States. So I think when, when these guys start playing with going after their political

01:34:06.680 enemies, when Alvin Bragg runs on the explicit campaign to take down Trump, and then they go

01:34:11.500 hunting through and looking for anything and drumming up any charge and go after him in the

01:34:16.100 most favorable juries and the most favorable, uh, part of the country, and then just control the

01:34:22.060 evidence and control the narrative. That is the beginning of the end. And the people

01:34:25.980 who in Silicon Valley and the donors who are out there supporting this lawfare, they're dead to

01:34:30.680 me. I mean, these people are destroying the ground on which they stand. Do they think they

01:34:35.040 won't be next when you destroy the institutions of fairness and merit? Yeah. Eventually you're the

01:34:40.300 ones who get thrown up against all that. That's what it does. It creates this revenge fantasy,

01:34:44.100 right? Now you want to get back to that. I mean, that's the only way they're going to learn.

01:34:46.300 It's going to be a sad scene of affairs. Um, your quotes reminded me of this guy we know who's,

01:34:52.640 we believe is somewhat of a connected guy. And, uh, he has the saying, which I think could be Kamala

01:34:58.960 Harris's campaign slogan. Um, depending on who she's talking to, I'll do anything for you

01:35:04.640 and anything to you. It's very scary. It's monster behavior, right? It's like, it's like the ends

01:35:12.940 justify the means for these people. It's like, well, you know, this is the thing about religions

01:35:17.060 and Marxism is a religious movement. And so Alvin Bragg, I don't think is coordinated necessarily

01:35:22.360 by the DOJ. There's a little bit of evidence of that, but I think it's much more that just when you

01:35:27.080 take a religion and you spread it and you get these fervent adherents, these true believers. And,

01:35:32.360 you know, like I said, like when I was young, I was growing up under the Christian right and now

01:35:35.540 I'm growing up against the Marxist left, but they have their own religions. Uh, when you have these

01:35:40.300 religious fanatics, you get decentralized enforcement of the religion and each one is

01:35:45.460 trying to outdo the next one to show how much of a true believer they are. So the Alvin Braggs of the

01:35:50.680 world are going to get scalps and they're going to get feathers in their cap and they're going to get,

01:35:54.540 uh, you know, they're going to become famous and they're going to become lots of people cheering them on

01:35:58.360 if they go ahead and they take down these people that everybody hates. So they made Trump

01:36:02.160 into the devil. And it's hilarious because, you know, before he ran for office, he was just a

01:36:06.220 businessman and Democrat who they all, who they all, uh, uh, but in the minute and a half we have

01:36:12.620 left, sounds to me like you're a Trump voter. Is that how you intend to vote? Uh, I don't,

01:36:18.900 I don't advocate for people to vote in a specific way. I'm just not a Kamala Harris voter because

01:36:22.800 I've lived in San Francisco long enough. I tend to be more libertarian, but the libertarians are

01:36:27.700 running some wackos right now. So it's hard to, and what's your forecast? Like if she does,

01:36:31.400 what if she does win, what if she wins and she actually gains control of the house and keeps

01:36:35.960 the Senate and we have unified Democrat government? My biggest fear is unified governments in general,

01:36:42.040 because the government that governs best is the one that governs least. So you want divided

01:36:45.920 government. That's why the founders of this country made it so hard to actually pass laws and

01:36:50.480 change things. So you want divided government. Unified government is very threatening because

01:36:54.420 they, then it's a tyranny of the majority or the so-called majority. Um, what is the issue?

01:36:59.320 The main issue is changing the rules of the game. So examples of changing the rules of the game,

01:37:04.100 uh, mail-in ballots and making ballot harvesting legal and changing voter ID laws, uh, importing voters,

01:37:10.460 um, packing the Supreme court, uh, making, uh, DC a state so it can get two extra votes or making

01:37:17.480 Puerto Rico a state so it can get extra votes. Um, you know, uh, all of these things that they would do

01:37:23.220 in the name of protecting democracy, but change the rules. So censorship, censoring X or trying to

01:37:28.740 seize it from Elon Musk. Um, these are examples of things they can do structurally that will alter

01:37:33.600 the outcome forever and, and catapult us towards a one party state, which is the Californians.

01:37:38.560 California is a one party state and it's never coming back because they've completely changed

01:37:42.640 the rules of the game. Um, and so to me, the scariest thing is don't change the rules of the

01:37:48.560 game. That is where it's beyond the pale. And that's why the calls for censorship and the lawfare,

01:37:53.920 those are beyond the pale because both of those are changing the rules of the game. And when you

01:37:59.080 change the rules of the game, you know, people make this mistake. They think that the right to

01:38:02.640 vote gives you power. No power gives you the right to vote. And if you contradict that, if the people

01:38:07.160 who don't actually have power start using the right to vote, take away power, then it's going to

01:38:12.200 backfire on them.

01:38:12.940 The system's on its head. Naval got to run. Thank you so much. What a pleasure.

01:38:17.200 Thank you.

01:38:17.800 We're back on Monday for debate week. See you then. Have a great weekend.

01:38:23.280 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - September 06, 2024

How Medical Establishment Keeps Americans Sick, and Evils of Censorship, with Dr. Marty Makary and Naval Ravikant ｜ Ep. 881

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