The Megyn Kelly Show - Hunter Biden's Shock Capitol Hill Trip, and if President Biden Can Get Primaried, with Dean Phillips, Dave Aronberg, and Mike Davis ｜ Ep. 699

00:00:00.600 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:11.940 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.360 Oh my goodness, do we have a lot of information to get to you today.

00:00:19.360 This is an important one to listen to.

00:00:21.320 The man who was challenging Joe Biden in the Democratic primary, Representative Dean Phillips, is here.

00:00:26.460 I'm looking forward to talking to him about why he's doing this and what he thinks is wrong with President Joe Biden.

00:00:34.620 Why is he going after him? Why doesn't he think Joe Biden should be the nominee and the next president?

00:00:40.860 First, though, it's a mind-blowing legal news day involving former President Donald Trump and current President Joe Biden.

00:00:48.220 When we originally booked our first segment, the plan was to focus on Trump's immunity hearing at the D.C. Court of Appeals yesterday.

00:00:54.920 But then all hell broke loose in Georgia on that story that we brought to you.

00:01:00.340 No one was covering this yesterday. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution broke it.

00:01:03.360 We picked it up. Now it's everywhere. You're welcome.

00:01:06.240 And there's a lot more to talk about on that case.

00:01:08.720 A lot more on whether Fannie Willis, the D.A. in Georgia going after Trump and 18 others,

00:01:15.480 and her alleged improper affair with the special prosecutor she brought in,

00:01:20.960 who then took her on several alleged romantic vacations in which she benefited by enjoying the sights and sounds of Napa,

00:01:32.100 among other beautiful places, on his dime potentially, could sink the entire Trump election interference case.

00:01:39.440 There are legal experts now predicting the whole case will go away.

00:01:43.700 I'm skeptical of that, but I think Fannie Willis is going away.

00:01:47.380 We'll get to all of it.

00:01:48.360 On top of it all, as we're preparing all that for you, a short time ago, Hunter Biden shows up unannounced on Capitol Hill,

00:01:56.100 crashing a House committee hearing about holding him in contempt of Congress.

00:02:01.380 This is a massive middle finger to everybody involved in this.

00:02:05.920 The first son and his attorneys sauntering in, sitting down.

00:02:10.880 Hey, we deserve to be here.

00:02:13.180 They waived their opportunity to appear at the subpoenaed deposition they wanted to take of him.

00:02:20.900 And now when they decide whether he should be held in contempt, he saunters in like the prince.

00:02:26.840 I'll sit here and I'll listen and let's see what you'll do about it.

00:02:29.920 South Carolina Republican Nancy Mace called him out and probably got called out herself.

00:02:34.820 Watch.

00:02:35.520 First of all, my first question is who bribed Hunter Biden to be here today?

00:02:39.960 That's my first question.

00:02:41.760 Second question, you are the epitome of white privilege coming into the oversight committee, 0.96

00:02:47.320 spitting in our face, ignoring a congressional subpoena to be deposed. 0.90

00:02:51.780 What are you afraid of? 1.00

00:02:53.080 You have no balls to come up here. 0.99

00:02:55.860 Mr. Chairman, point of inquiry. 0.99

00:02:57.540 Mr. Chairman.

00:02:58.220 If the gentle lady wants to hear from Hunter Biden, we can hear from him right now, Mr. Chairman.

00:03:05.100 Let's take a vote and hear from Hunter Biden.

00:03:07.120 What are you afraid of?

00:03:08.080 Are women allowed to speak in here? 1.00

00:03:09.060 Hold on, hold on, hold on.

00:03:09.900 Order, order, order.

00:03:11.520 Are women allowed to speak in here or no? 1.00

00:03:13.700 Are women allowed to speak in here or no? 1.00

00:03:15.180 Did you keep interrupting me?

00:03:16.660 I'll interrupt the chairman.

00:03:17.620 You keep interrupting.

00:03:18.160 I don't know that he's a lady. 0.97

00:03:19.520 Whoa. 0.97

00:03:20.660 Never heard anybody yell balls at a congressional hearing doctor. 0.89

00:03:24.820 I think it's the first.

00:03:25.700 So the fact checkers will check it out.

00:03:28.740 And just when you thought it could not get any more wild, Georgia Republican Marjorie

00:03:34.360 Taylor Greene started talking and Hunter got up and just walked on out.

00:03:39.940 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:03:41.520 Excuse me, Hunter.

00:03:43.100 Apparently you're afraid of my words.

00:03:45.080 Whoa.

00:03:45.580 Oh, I like to reclaim my time, Mr. Chairman.

00:03:54.560 Wow, that's too bad.

00:04:01.440 You see, when you're a Biden, you get to decide when you're going to show up in front of Congress

00:04:06.180 and when you're not.

00:04:06.720 It's up to you, even if you have a subpoena.

00:04:08.760 Even though Trump is being prosecuted right now by Jack Smith for defying a subpoena.

00:04:14.840 But when you're Hunter Biden, it's fine.

00:04:16.540 And even when they hold the impeachment or the hearing figuring out whether you should

00:04:21.680 be prosecuted for blowing off your subpoena, you can just wander in and wander out at leisure.

00:04:28.100 It's great to be a Biden.

00:04:29.700 By the way, we believe, though, are not entirely certain that the person who said, oh, too bad

00:04:33.400 is Republican Congresswoman Lisa McClain.

00:04:35.160 Um, OK, after all that, CBS News then posts this video, a reporter asking why Hunter was

00:04:43.460 leaving.

00:04:45.240 Why are you choosing to leave now, Mr. Biden?

00:04:47.460 Why not stay a while?

00:04:48.400 I have a statement to make in the press.

00:04:51.400 Okay, that was Abby Lowell, Hunter's attorney, saying that he would make a statement.

00:04:58.940 But as Abby Lowell tried to speak, they were interrupted by questions like this.

00:05:06.160 Quiet and let me make a statement, OK?

00:05:08.200 How kind of crack do you normally smoke, Mr. Biden?

00:05:10.360 Oh, boy.

00:05:11.460 What kind of crack do you normally smoke, Mr. Biden?

00:05:14.200 Oh, no.

00:05:15.000 Things took a turn.

00:05:16.660 Oh, at least one reporter did try to do her job and ask Hunter while she had him.

00:05:23.680 Hello.

00:05:24.000 This was the right thing to do.

00:05:24.900 I think this was a Fox News reporter about his father's involvement, Hillary Vaughn,

00:05:29.960 in his overseas business dealings.

00:05:32.300 And Hunter actually responded.

00:05:34.300 Hello, news media.

00:05:35.400 This is the way to do it. 1.00

00:05:36.300 Don't waste time with stupid ass questions about what kind of crack did you smoke? 1.00

00:05:39.800 Ask a probative, substantive question. 1.00

00:05:41.860 You might get a real answer like we saw here.

00:05:45.000 Watch and listen.

00:05:46.780 Mr. Biden, why did you put your dad on speakerphone with your business partners if he had no involvement

00:05:51.860 in your business?

00:05:54.020 Do you have a dad?

00:05:55.220 Did he call you?

00:05:56.740 Yes.

00:05:57.080 Did he answer the phone?

00:05:58.080 Yes.

00:05:58.920 OK.

00:05:59.380 But why did you need to talk to him during business meetings if he had nothing to do

00:06:02.940 with your business?

00:06:04.780 Right.

00:06:06.940 Good job.

00:06:08.200 That's the question.

00:06:09.480 She's absolutely right.

00:06:10.700 It's not that he's generally taking phone calls from his dad.

00:06:14.880 It's why did it need to happen during your business meetings over and over?

00:06:19.140 Smart question.

00:06:20.180 Good job to Hillary Vaughn. 1.00

00:06:22.380 OK, joining me now to discuss so, so much our legal all stars, Mike Davis, founder and

00:06:27.620 president of the Article Three Project, and Dave Ehrenberg, state attorney for Palm Beach

00:06:32.460 County, Florida, where Mar-a-Lago is located.

00:06:36.380 Mike and Dave, welcome back to the show.

00:06:38.280 Wow, we're drinking from a fire hose of news today.

00:06:40.940 We were just going to do the Trump immunity hearing yesterday and look at all the things

00:06:44.600 we have to go over.

00:06:46.340 I'm most interested in this Fannie Willis case, and we'll get to her second.

00:06:49.600 But let's just spend a minute on Hunter Biden.

00:06:52.820 Hunter Biden saunters in there, Mike, like truly the crown prince.

00:06:57.160 Like, I will just decide what I show up to on Capitol Hill.

00:07:01.700 And it won't be the one that I'm subpoenaed for.

00:07:04.640 It will just be this aftermath where you're deciding whether I should be held in contempt.

00:07:08.800 And then I will take no questions.

00:07:10.560 I will walk with swagger in and out. 0.94

00:07:13.020 And honestly, like Nancy Mace is kind of onto something with the privilege situation.

00:07:18.060 It's just I've got to imagine there's some cringing going on over the White House on what 0.98

00:07:22.900 forgive me, but arrogant prick he looks like in doing this. 0.95

00:07:25.940 Yeah, I mean, I ran like 70 congressional hearings and markups when I was on the Senate Judiciary 0.96

00:07:33.920 Committee as the chief counsel for nominations, then Chairman Chuck Grassley.

00:07:37.440 I've never seen anything like this.

00:07:39.380 This is clearly obstruction of a congressional proceeding, which is a felony.

00:07:46.060 This is clearly conspiracy to obstruct a congressional proceeding, which is a felony.

00:07:51.980 And this is also contempt of Congress.

00:07:54.140 Remember that Trump advisers Steve Bannon and Peter Navarro have been tried by the Biden

00:08:01.180 Justice Department and convicted and are awaiting going to prison for defying a congressional

00:08:08.560 subpoena being held in contempt.

00:08:11.220 I don't know how you describe what Hunter did as anything other than contempt and obstruction

00:08:18.820 and conspiracy.

00:08:19.720 What do you make of it, Dave?

00:08:22.020 You're laughing because those charges that Mike just referenced are, of course, the ones

00:08:25.660 that Trump has been charged with at the federal level.

00:08:29.740 But let's speak to that, speak to whether he did violating laws and all this, but also

00:08:34.280 just the I mean, come on, this is not a good look.

00:08:38.440 Well, it's good to be with you, Megan and my friend Mike.

00:08:41.080 Now, the reason I was laughing is because I can understand the argument for contempt.

00:08:45.520 But when you say obstruction, all that other stuff, we have a right to attend a hearing.

00:08:49.740 And if they wanted to hear from him, he would have testified.

00:08:52.680 But to get to the contempt point, I as a prosecutor, when you receive a subpoena, you don't get

00:08:58.140 to choose the terms of your appearance.

00:09:00.280 So as a prosecutor, yes, he could be held in contempt, but he's not going to be because

00:09:05.840 it's up to DOJ and DOJ did not press charges against Mark Meadows for refusing to comply

00:09:12.140 with the subpoena, Dan Scavino and Jim Jordan.

00:09:14.880 So they're not going to do it here, especially when the guy is ready to testify.

00:09:18.360 But he wants to testify in his own terms in public.

00:09:21.120 So I get why people are upset about it, but don't expect a prosecution.

00:09:24.660 But wait, let me just jump in on that, because Trump also wanted to comply with the subpoena

00:09:28.340 for documents at Mar-a-Lago, but wanted to do it on his terms.

00:09:31.400 It's a no.

00:09:32.760 It's a no.

00:09:33.960 You know, and I said that to the man's face when I sat with him in September.

00:09:37.200 And I would say the same to Hunter Biden if he were sitting across from me now.

00:09:40.140 It's a no.

00:09:41.160 You don't get to determine the terms on which you comply with the subpoena.

00:09:44.980 You get one and you show up.

00:09:46.880 Most normal people are afraid when they get a subpoena, because there is a lot of power

00:09:51.520 behind one of those things.

00:09:52.520 So it's, you know, on your first point, Dave, there's no question he violated the law

00:09:58.180 in not complying.

00:09:59.120 He doesn't get to say, no, it has to be in front of the public, as opposed to behind

00:10:02.500 closed doors, where they get a real opportunity to cross-examine him as in a real deposition

00:10:06.280 versus the theater we watch when it's in front of Congress with the five-minute Dem, five-minute

00:10:11.540 Republican thing.

00:10:13.360 Yeah.

00:10:13.620 No.

00:10:13.900 Look, Megan, if you want to do a strict application of the law, then Hunter Biden violated the

00:10:19.140 subpoena and could be prosecuted for it, just like Dan Scamino, Mark Meadows, and Jim

00:10:23.400 Jordan and other members of Congress.

00:10:24.740 But since DOJ hasn't prosecuted those, they can't just go ahead and prosecute Hunter Biden

00:10:29.860 for the same thing these other guys just did.

00:10:31.900 All right.

00:10:31.980 So before I give it back to Mike, then, before I give it back to Mike, Dave, so what's the

00:10:35.080 difference between Dan Scamino and Mark Meadows versus Peter Navarro and Steve Bannon on the

00:10:40.020 other side, who have been prosecuted for contempt of Congress for not complying?

00:10:43.800 Well, I think the difference is, is that whether you're Jim Jordan with speech, speech or debate

00:10:49.160 clause, congressional immunity, or you're a presidential advisor with executive privilege,

00:10:54.320 it's not the same as a private citizen like Hunter Biden, right?

00:10:58.280 And so they raise constantly-

00:10:59.920 No, no, no, no.

00:11:00.040 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

00:11:01.020 I just don't want to confuse things.

00:11:02.200 I'll give everybody a chance to say what they want to say.

00:11:03.880 But let me just stick with Dave for one second, because Dave, you're saying DOJ didn't go

00:11:10.460 after this other trio, Meadows, Scavino, whoever the third was, I can't remember.

00:11:16.160 And yet, okay, and yet they did go after Bannon and Navarro, as Mike accurately points out,

00:11:23.360 for defying their subpoenas.

00:11:25.360 So before I give it back to Mike, this one's for you, Dave, what's the distinction between

00:11:29.760 those?

00:11:30.080 You know, they do it all based on the individual's facts and circumstances.

00:11:35.080 So I don't know why they didn't prosecute Scavino, Meadows.

00:11:39.300 I guess Jordan wasn't prosecuted for the reasons why Mike said, because he's a member of Congress.

00:11:43.640 But I think what DOJ will do here is to say, hey, Hunter Biden did show up.

00:11:48.440 He was ready to testify.

00:11:49.980 And because of that, even though-

00:11:51.720 That doesn't, he was good.

00:11:52.840 He said only in front, I won't do a closed door deposition.

00:11:56.380 It's not up to him.

00:11:57.640 But because prosecutors at DOJ have proven that they will only prosecute these cases

00:12:03.020 on slam dunk cases like they had against Bannon and Navarro and not against Scavino and Meadows,

00:12:09.500 they're not going to prosecute this one, even though I admit, as a prosecutor, you don't

00:12:13.140 get to decide the terms of your appearance.

00:12:16.120 I agree with you on that.

00:12:17.120 But don't expect DOJ to prosecute this.

00:12:18.960 I don't, okay, as I recall, the Meadows thing, I don't remember the Bannon circumstance,

00:12:24.260 but I know for a fact, Meadows was trying to cooperate with Congress.

00:12:27.840 He didn't give them everything they wanted, but he was cooperating, just not to the extent

00:12:32.760 they wanted.

00:12:33.420 That, to me, seems like a distinguishable case from Hunter Biden, Mike, who just gave me

00:12:40.900 an Italian gesture and said, if you don't do it my way, I don't show up.

00:12:46.820 Yeah, I mean, remember that Mark Meadows was the White House chief of staff, the top aide

00:12:53.600 to the president of the United States, and you had Congress seeking testimony about his

00:13:00.460 conversations with the president of the United States, which is at the heart of executive

00:13:05.700 privilege, right?

00:13:06.620 So you have clear constitutional issues with the separation of powers.

00:13:11.260 We've had executive privilege going back 250 years to George Washington, where presidents

00:13:16.800 can get candid advice from their advisors without being hauled in before Congress to testify

00:13:22.620 about what they said to the president, because that has a chilling effect, and the president

00:13:26.580 won't be able to get that candid advice.

00:13:29.000 What did Hunter Biden do?

00:13:30.320 Was he talking to his father about his art sales? 0.99

00:13:33.740 Was he talking to his father about his hookers and blow? 0.99

00:13:37.120 Was he talking to his father about his corrupt Chinese and Russian and Ukrainian foreign dealings? 0.93

00:13:42.860 What was Hunter's advice he was giving to his father why he can't testify before Congress?

00:13:50.120 Megan?

00:13:50.720 I mean, he doesn't even—go ahead, Dave.

00:13:52.820 Yeah, I think you made my point when you said that Meadows did cooperate in the way he wanted

00:13:58.760 to.

00:13:59.040 Like, he gave Congress some things, but didn't give Congress exactly what it wanted.

00:14:03.640 Well, Hunter Biden is showing up and saying, I will comply, I will testify, but it has to be

00:14:08.140 in the open because I don't trust you guys to report what happens behind closed doors.

00:14:12.380 For a prosecutor, not ideal.

00:14:14.740 But that is why I don't think DOJ is going to prosecute him, because it's similar to the

00:14:18.820 Mark Meadows situation.

00:14:20.680 I think it has more to do with the fact that his last name is Biden.

00:14:23.840 I think that's obvious.

00:14:24.900 I think this DOJ has been extremely reluctant to go after Hunter for several years now because

00:14:29.640 his last name is Biden, as alleged and then later confirmed by those whistleblowers and

00:14:33.540 their testimony.

00:14:34.560 This guy gets away with murder.

00:14:36.140 He gets away with murder. 0.99

00:14:37.180 That's why he had, to use Nancy Mace's term, the balls, to walk in there and middle finger 1.00

00:14:44.740 it to the entire Congress. 0.98

00:14:47.540 I won't sit.

00:14:48.880 I won't give you testimony unless you do it the way I want you to do it, where we all

00:14:53.100 know it's utterly meaningless. 1.00

00:14:54.640 How many of those stupid congressional hearings have we heard where they get nothing done because 1.00

00:14:58.740 it's limited to five-minute increments? 1.00

00:15:00.300 You guys are both lawyers.

00:15:01.400 You know nobody can ever get anything done that way unless they actually try to coordinate, 0.99

00:15:04.980 which everybody's too dumb to do in Congress. 0.94

00:15:07.840 So it's just the whole thing is just a middle finger and he knew he could get away with it. 0.99

00:15:11.260 And so far he's getting away with it.

00:15:12.420 But here's the last question on Hunter.

00:15:14.100 So if they do vote to hold him in contempt, Mike, then what?

00:15:18.100 Because isn't it?

00:15:19.280 I mean, like, does the Congress get to say you're in contempt and then refer it to the

00:15:22.780 DOJ?

00:15:23.400 And then it's up to our pal Merrick Garland to determine?

00:15:26.500 Yeah, that's exactly right.

00:15:29.000 If there's a contempt, you refer to the Justice Department and then the Justice Department

00:15:34.700 decides whether they're going to prosecute.

00:15:36.600 It's a very good question for Biden Attorney General Merrick Garland.

00:15:40.300 How do you prosecute top presidential advisors, Peter Navarro, the former trade rep, to the

00:15:48.880 trade director, to President Trump, and then Steve Bannon, one of his top outside advisors,

00:15:54.000 who clearly enjoy executive privilege with their conversations with the president of the

00:15:59.880 United States, but you don't prosecute the president's son who refuses to testify about

00:16:06.580 the Biden's foreign corruption and their bribery and foreign corruption schemes.

00:16:11.800 This is not about Hunter Biden.

00:16:13.980 This is about Joe Biden.

00:16:15.300 This is about whether the president of the United States is currently compromised by tens of

00:16:22.160 millions of dollars in foreign bribes and other corruption from China, from Russia, from

00:16:26.900 Ukraine, from Kazakhstan.

00:16:28.100 It seems like every trouble spot around the world, Biden and his sleazebag family were on

00:16:35.500 the take.

00:16:36.000 And that's what Congress is trying to get to the bottom of, because it's not about hunters,

00:16:41.420 hookers and blow. 1.00

00:16:42.500 It's about whether the president is compromised. 0.96

00:16:44.600 It sounds like a, like a song from the Wizard of Oz.

00:16:49.160 Hunter, what is it?

00:16:52.440 What was it?

00:16:53.340 What was the trio?

00:16:54.540 Hookers and blow, oh my. 1.00

00:16:56.920 All right, let's, let's move on from those dirty antics to the dirty antics down in Atlanta, 0.99

00:17:04.200 Georgia.

00:17:04.580 This is unbelievable.

00:17:06.920 So just for the listeners and the viewers who did not watch the show yesterday and the

00:17:12.520 segment we did on this is totally blown up online.

00:17:14.760 So you can go check it out on youtube.com right now slash Megan Kelly if you want to

00:17:17.980 see it for all the basic facts.

00:17:19.380 But I'll just give you the quick overview so people know.

00:17:22.920 Fannie Willis is the DA going after Trump in Georgia.

00:17:26.000 This is a case he does need to worry about because she doesn't like him.

00:17:29.080 The jury pool in Atlanta is not going to like him.

00:17:31.020 And it's a state case that Trump cannot undo even if he or another Republican wins the

00:17:35.660 presidency. He can't pull the DOJ off the case because that's federal and she's local. 1.00

00:17:40.280 She's from a state and he can't pardon himself or get a Republican to pardon him for a state

00:17:46.280 conviction. So he does need to worry about Fannie Willis a lot, much more so than the other 0.80

00:17:51.180 state case, which is Alvin Bragg in Manhattan. 0.91

00:17:53.720 That's kind of a bullshit case that even if he gets convicted on it, he's probably not going to 0.96

00:17:57.300 jail. So Fannie's a problem for Trump. 0.99

00:18:00.680 Enter the latest defense motion on behalf of one of the other 18 or 19 defendants down there.

00:18:05.660 Not Trump's lawyer, but it's all to his benefit anyway.

00:18:08.840 She represent another guy, represents another guy down there, this, this lawyer.

00:18:13.020 And she finds out, this is my suspicion.

00:18:16.000 I have no proof of this.

00:18:17.320 She finds out somehow that Fannie's allegedly having an affair with a special prosecutor she

00:18:22.240 brought in. This is the lawyer who, who found out.

00:18:25.520 And, um, I'm going to guess that the special prosecutor's wife possibly tipped her off because

00:18:33.740 hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. 1.00

00:18:36.800 And these two appear to have been getting along, Fannie and her special prosecutor, um, before

00:18:42.160 the official, uh, a selection was made and possibly before his divorce was underway.

00:18:47.060 Okay. So however she found out, she found out one of the defense lawyers for one of the defendants

00:18:52.420 finds out that Fannie may be having an affair with the special prosecutor she brought in and whom

00:18:56.940 she's paid $650,000 of the taxpayers money to, which is double what any prosecutor down there is 0.97

00:19:02.560 making. These DAs don't make a lot of dough. The justices on the Supreme Court in Delaware make less

00:19:08.520 than $200,000 a year. This guy, her alleged affair partner has pulled in $650,000 in a year.

00:19:15.500 And Fannie seems to be having a good time with him. According to the motion that was just filed

00:19:23.260 on behalf of one of the other defendants, these two went to Napa together. They went to Florida,

00:19:28.320 Dave, they were down by you. They, um, or Jamaica. I don't, they're like the list is long. He's been

00:19:33.920 whining and dining her. And this is while he's cashing all these checks that she has made possible.

00:19:41.280 Now the defense lawyer is moving to have her recused from the case, to have him recused from

00:19:46.020 the case, to have the entire DA's office recused from the case because Fannie seems to be enjoying,

00:19:51.720 or at least is creating the appearance of impropriety, uh, that she's enjoying the financial

00:19:56.520 fruits of an appointment she made and bringing this guy in. He's getting all this money and she's

00:20:01.260 taking trips with it is the allegation. She hasn't spoken to it yet. They're refusing to comment.

00:20:06.000 Um, she, they say they'll respond only through briefs because there's a legal brief now asking

00:20:09.560 that everybody get booted. And the woman filing the motion says she's seen the now under seal

00:20:17.280 divorce proceeding files between the special prosecutor and his soon to be ex-wife. And as

00:20:22.240 soon as she saw them, they put them under seal. So this woman hasn't been able to attach them as an

00:20:26.560 exhibit yet, but she's seen them. The lawyer has, and is telling us, trust me, they've been having an

00:20:30.620 affair and we're all going to see these documents very soon. So that brings us to the news today,

00:20:35.960 Mike. And by the way, credit to the Atlanta journal constitution for reporting all of this. That's

00:20:40.140 where we learned about it. The news today, uh, still from AJC is Fannie Willis is going to get deposed

00:20:47.120 in, um, this divorce proceeding. The special prosecutor Wade, um, there's been a subpoena in

00:20:56.520 his divorce case to, uh, Fannie. And it was served on Monday hours before that filing in the Georgia

00:21:06.780 Rico case. And now this lawyer, Ashley Merchant, who represents one of the Trump defendants

00:21:13.600 is pointing out that not only is this guy Wade allegedly having an affair with Fannie,

00:21:18.620 but he's totally unqualified to be bringing this prosecution in the first place, which just puts

00:21:25.720 the, puts the final stink on the whole thing, Mike, right? If he doesn't have the qualifications

00:21:32.220 to be trying the case to begin with, then she brings him in her alleged affair partner,

00:21:38.240 showers him with all this dough. The two are off to Napa. My God, I need a clothes pin. It stinks so bad.

00:21:45.340 My nostrils need to be closed. I mean, this is right out of a beep episode. What Fannie Willis is

00:21:55.200 doing down there in Georgia. She brought in allegedly, uh, her boyfriend who has zero experience

00:22:02.780 with felony cases. She brought her boyfriend in to run a very complex, unprecedented, highly political,

00:22:11.880 highly partisan Rico case against a former president of the United States that who happens to be the

00:22:19.060 leading presidential candidate, including, and then also with 18 co-defendants, uh, including

00:22:25.020 president Trump's top aides, lawyers, supporters, supporters, this co-defendant, Michael Roman submitted,

00:22:31.740 submitted this 127 page motion to dismiss the, uh, the indictment based upon this. Uh, there's also

00:22:39.040 other problems besides Fannie Willis getting kickbacks from her boyfriend, allegedly in the form of these 1.00

00:22:45.140 lavish trips. You also have this prosecutor. If you read his bills, it's, he bills like eight hours at a

00:22:52.060 time every day with very vague descriptions. But one day he built a full 24 hours. He built every second

00:23:00.260 of a day and he put the vague description prepared cases for pretrial, right? So you worked 24 hours

00:23:07.860 in a row, uh, very early on in this case. Uh, another prosecutor, Nathan Wade. Yeah. Nathan Wade.

00:23:14.800 Another thing that's very problematic. Here's the bill, by the way, for the, for the, for the viewing

00:23:18.840 audience on YouTube, you can see he, he does have a 24 hour invoice. Go ahead, Mike. Yeah. And he also,

00:23:25.580 this is how stupid this guy is. This guy also billed for two meetings he had with the white house staff, 1.00

00:23:33.280 one with the white house council for, uh, for, for like eight hours. And then another eight hour

00:23:38.540 meeting at the white house before Fannie Willis brought this indictment against president Trump.

00:23:44.760 So that makes it very clear that the Biden president Biden and his white house are lying when they said

00:23:51.880 that they didn't have any communications with any of these Democrat prosecutors like Alvin Bragg and

00:23:57.680 Fannie Willis before they brought these unprecedented charges against president Trump, this election

00:24:03.280 interference, because Nathan Wade billed for those meetings. And the fact that he billed for those

00:24:09.040 meetings, his meetings, his two meetings prior to Fannie Willis's indictment with the white house staff

00:24:14.800 proves that they talked about Trump's indictment. Cause why else would Nathan Wade have billed for those

00:24:22.180 meetings if they didn't talk about what he was working on? That's a very good question, Dave. Those

00:24:27.200 two dates and we've seen now his bill, um, may 23rd, 2022, November 18, 2022 before Trump was indicted by

00:24:38.180 Fannie Willis. And it says travel to Athens conference with white house council eight hours

00:24:44.800 on the may one, November interview with DC slash white house eight hours. Mike raises a good question.

00:24:53.620 Why, why would he be talking to the white house and conferring with white house council immediately

00:24:59.980 prior to Trump's indictment? If there wasn't coordination with the white house on Trump's

00:25:04.360 indictment? Well, Megan, let's look at the dates. The investigation in Fulton County started on January

00:25:10.820 2nd, uh, 2021. That's excuse me. That's when the call occurred. That's what prompted the investigation.

00:25:16.000 The investigation actually started on February 11th, 2021. And, uh, so this was taking place,

00:25:22.300 this investigation a year plus prior to this, this meeting. If, uh, there was a meeting, who knows

00:25:28.760 this was Nathan Wade's, uh, way to bill for it. He says meeting with white house council, but this

00:25:34.920 investigation was going on for many months. And then the grand jury was meeting as of, um,

00:25:40.940 January of 2022. So you're talking about many months that the investigation was happening and

00:25:48.660 the grand jury was meeting. So what, when you say that by an administration was pulling the strings,

00:25:54.760 this thing was already happening in the grand jury. And why did they even need to care about

00:25:59.220 funny Willis at that point? When the first meeting took place, Jack Smith had already been appointed.

00:26:05.180 And so this investigation at the federal level was already occurring. And let me tell you something

00:26:09.060 as a state prosecutor, we state prosecutors don't want to get in the way of feds and the feds hate

00:26:14.600 when we duplicate their efforts. The feds do not want us to do what they do because it gets in the

00:26:19.980 way of immunity and other issues. So to think that the Biden administration is saying, yeah, go ahead

00:26:24.740 and prosecute when they're already investigating, there's already a grand jury in place and they've

00:26:28.660 already got their own federal case ready to be teed up. I think strains credulity. I don't think

00:26:34.060 this meeting means anything. Go ahead, Mike. Well, the Department of Justice has very strict

00:26:40.760 guidelines on who within the Justice Department can meet with whom in the White House when you're

00:26:48.240 dealing with criminal investigations, right? So if a White House staffer can't meet with the Justice

00:26:54.840 Department about a criminal investigation, how the hell can that White House staffer meet with a state

00:27:01.160 attorney general about a criminal investigation? Oh, that criminal investigation just happens to be

00:27:07.960 about their boss's chief political enemy. This is a scandal that this Nathan Wade, on behalf of Fannie

00:27:16.960 Willis, billed for time when he met with the White House twice before Fannie Willis indicted President

00:27:24.220 Trump. This shows that there was clear collusion between the Biden White House, not just the Biden

00:27:30.680 Justice Department, the Biden White House, and this Democrat prosecutor. That's how his own bill

00:27:38.600 says, conferring with White House counsel, interview with DC slash White House. It doesn't seem very

00:27:45.720 ambiguous and we deserve some answers on it, but I want to go back to you, Dave, on what Fannie Willis is

00:27:53.580 accused of here. In what world would it be appropriate for a DA to be having an affair with somebody to bring

00:28:02.740 that person in as special prosecutor to pay him $650,000 and then to go travel the globe with him

00:28:12.700 post-paying him all that money?

00:28:17.100 Megan, I'm not going to defend the optics of this. Look, it looks bad, clearly. But keep in mind that

00:28:24.060 Fannie Willis—oh, and by the way, I used to call her Fannie Willis, too, and then I got an email from

00:28:27.500 one of her friends saying, it's Fannie, not Fannie. So, for what it's worth.

00:28:30.780 I don't care.

00:28:31.140 All right. Well, so she—sorry, Nathan Wade has been a mentor of hers for years. They were both

00:28:39.720 judges, and he was a mentor of hers when they were—when he was a judge. So, this has been going

00:28:45.540 on for a while, not necessarily any affair. We don't know for sure if there's an affair, but even

00:28:48.840 assume there is, then— What's she doing in his divorce proceeding files if they're not having an 0.98

00:28:53.960 affair? I'm going to even assume that there's—even though there was no proof, if there is an affair,

00:28:59.460 let's discuss it that way. So, if they are having an affair, what's the prejudice? What's the

00:29:03.700 problem to the defendant? How are the defendant's constitutional rights being deprived? That's why—

00:29:09.340 I'll tell you. I'll tell you. I'll tell you. And first of all, we don't have to prove actual

00:29:13.500 harm to the defendant. We can just prove appearance of impropriety, and she's misstepped. As you all

00:29:18.140 know, we've all taken the bar exam and passed it. So, appearance of impropriety is enough. But actual

00:29:24.020 impropriety, actual prejudice could potentially be argued here because she has a financial incentive to keep 1.00

00:29:28.800 the case going. The more her lover, alleged, gets, the more he has to spend on their next trip to Napa.

00:29:40.300 She's also being paid for this same thing. She gets paid to be— 1.00

00:29:45.200 She gets paid a salary no matter what. He doesn't. He doesn't get $650,000 if this case goes away.

00:29:51.440 Well, the thing is, is the evidence there or not? I mean, whether he is prosecuting the case or someone

00:29:56.340 else, the evidence is the evidence. And that's why the judge isn't going to dismiss the case.

00:29:59.300 I got you on your heels. I never get Dave on his heels. He's too smart for me usually,

00:30:03.320 but I got you this time. You're on your heels because you know this is deeply wrong.

00:30:08.000 Mike, there's no way she's getting out of this. If what this lawyer alleges is true, she's toast.

00:30:15.460 Yeah. I mean, I would say, number one, if I'm ever in hot water, I'm hiring Dave because he's a very

00:30:20.200 good defense attorney, as we just saw there. He's good. I mean, he's very good. I mean,

00:30:25.120 he gets up there and says it with a straight face, which is hilarious. And number two,

00:30:29.140 I would say that if these allegations are true, not only will Fannie Willis get disqualified 0.81

00:30:34.840 from this case, she faces disbarment and criminal prosecution, both in Georgia and by the Department

00:30:44.180 of Justice, presumably not by the Biden Justice Department. But when Trump's back in office,

00:30:49.300 she faces serious criminal liability for what she's done here, including violation of public oath,

00:30:56.100 bribery, improper influence of government official, criminal conspiracy, conspiracy to defraud

00:31:01.600 government, maybe even racketeering. She likes that racketeering charge, false statements and 1.00

00:31:07.100 concealment. There are so many potential Georgia charges alone for which you could go after Fannie

00:31:14.820 Willis on this. And I would say that the Georgia governor, Brian Kemp, and the Georgia attorney

00:31:21.240 general, Chris Carr, they need to do their statutory duty here and open an investigation on old Fannie

00:31:28.940 Willis here and her boyfriend. 0.88

00:31:30.140 Here's the thing. She's she's paying him double what others in that office are making. And as far

00:31:39.340 as we can tell, the guy's never even prosecuted a felony case before. It stinks. 0.74

00:31:46.700 But again, how does it prejudice an defendant when she went to a grand jury and a grand jury

00:31:53.060 of citizens from the community voted to indict? And now the case is being prosecuted. You have a judge

00:31:59.260 who is a Federalist Society member, Judge McAfee, who has refused to dismiss any of these charges and

00:32:05.360 has refused to bounce the special prosecutor off the case because he didn't follow the right forms

00:32:10.640 or he didn't take the right oath. That was a much there. That was an earlier technical objection

00:32:15.360 that people Trump's team was raising to the way in which he got appointed with the special

00:32:20.520 prosecutor. I don't know whether that's legit or not. I don't care. This is this is something in a

00:32:25.400 league of its own. That is why, Dave, you've got this is from AJC, noting the number of legal

00:32:31.160 experts who have deep concerns about this state bar of Georgia's code of ethics.

00:32:37.340 If saying, OK, let's say it would be a clear violation of the state bar of Georgia's code

00:32:42.880 of ethics, according to Andrew Fleischman, criminal defense attorney in Atlanta.

00:32:46.400 Quote, if you're giving money to somebody who appears to be unqualified and they are giving

00:32:49.780 you some of that money back in the form of summer vacations, then you are financially

00:32:54.200 benefiting from your prosecution. The Fulton County Code of Ethics says officials should

00:32:59.540 aspire to avoid, quote, even the appearance of a conflict of interest. It's literally on the bar

00:33:06.460 exam. All of us. Stephen Gillers, who here has read Stephen Gillers book? Raise your hand. We all had

00:33:12.940 to do it. Gillers is the he's the legal ethics guru. We all had to read before we took the bar.

00:33:18.160 You guys are around my age. You had to do it, too. He's he's an AJC yesterday saying this is

00:33:23.940 deeply concerning. It very much looks like if this is true, she's crossed some serious ethical lines.

00:33:29.080 It's done, Dave. It's done. But my point is the case continues when you say that this

00:33:36.320 somehow jeopardizes the case. OK, that's a different question. That's it. OK, wait,

00:33:41.720 I want to get to that. I want to get that. So but there is no point if what this criminal

00:33:46.520 defense attorney is alleging who's who's defending. She's defending Mike Roman. Her name is Ashley

00:33:51.580 Merchant. She's the defense lawyer. If what she's alleging is true, Fannie Willis. Goodbye. You're

00:33:56.480 you're done and your office is done. That's my prediction. Mike agrees with me. Dave disagrees

00:34:01.660 with me. And the special prosecutor, Nathan Wade, goes away, too. They're all going away. They can

00:34:06.480 spend as much time as they want in Napa if they can afford it without the state's money and the six

00:34:11.120 hundred and fifty thousand dollars times two because the case is going to be ongoing. Somebody

00:34:14.800 else is getting the case at a minimum. So now that brings us to the question of who and do they

00:34:21.700 think this is as good a case as Fannie Willis thinks it is? Or is there a possibility that the

00:34:29.960 case just goes away altogether? Because that's also being suggested by a few legal experts that it's not

00:34:35.780 going to get reassigned under these circumstances. It's going to be thrown out. So, Mike, do you I know

00:34:41.080 you would like to see it get thrown out, Mike, but do you think there's any realistic chance it does

00:34:45.000 get thrown out? Yeah, I mean, as a result of this. Yes, because there's so much prosecutorial

00:34:50.800 misconduct here and you can get cases dismissed with prejudice based upon prosecutorial

00:34:56.460 misconduct. But let's say even they dismiss this case without prejudice for a new prosecutor to bring

00:35:02.380 the charges here. What I keep saying this for months and months and months now, what exactly did

00:35:09.260 Trump do? That was illegal on January 6th. It is not illegal to object to a presidential election.

00:35:16.480 It is not illegal. That's that's allowed by the Electoral Count Act of 1887. It is not illegal to

00:35:22.280 twist arms politically. That's allowed by the First Amendment. It's not illegal to be a jerk in politics.

00:35:27.980 Otherwise, every politician in D.C., besides my former boss, Chuck Grassley, would be in prison. It is not 0.98

00:35:34.520 illegal to have contingent electors in place if you win your challenge on January 6th. They say fake

00:35:41.740 electors like Rudy Giuliani had the real electors tied up in Trump's trunk and then they sent in fake

00:35:48.460 electors and duped everyone. It's not illegal what happened on January 6th. You have this bozo district 1.00

00:35:55.280 attorney, Fannie Willis, and her supposed alleged boyfriend bringing this bogus racketeering theory 0.83

00:36:03.460 to take out their political enemies. Right. And this the fact that this came out, that Fannie Willis

00:36:10.320 is taking kickbacks from her boyfriend, allegedly, just shows what a clown both of them are. 0.99

00:36:15.740 All right. So, Dave, you you don't think I mean, if do you agree that if the judge thinks Fannie 0.93

00:36:22.060 Willis has crossed an ethical line, she goes, Nathan Wade goes and her whole office goes.

00:36:28.080 I think it is a possibility that the case, depending on what comes out, could get assigned. I think

00:36:34.780 there's zero chance the case goes away. I'm sorry. You're saying it would get reassigned to a different

00:36:41.400 DA. Like outside of Fannie Willis office. OK, it's a possibility. I think I still don't believe that

00:36:47.940 based on what we know now that it will get removed from her because you as a prosecutor, you can bring

00:36:53.680 on who you want. And in this case, if they had a relationship, if they took trips together, look, it

00:36:59.560 looks bad, but I don't believe across the line where she would be removed from the case. And if we find out more

00:37:04.980 and she is eventually removed from the case, it still doesn't affect the evidence of the case, which will go

00:37:10.380 forward. And the trial on a case like this, Dave, where they cannot afford to have anything smell,

00:37:18.640 they can't have anything close to a conflict of interest or the appearance of impropriety.

00:37:23.120 They're already under a microscope. What judge would allow her and him to stay on this case? This

00:37:30.220 guy, Fleischman, this Georgia attorney also said the following. And this is a good point. He said a

00:37:35.240 couple of things. Number one, in this exact case, Bolton County moved to present the false electors.

00:37:40.380 The people who are who have been accused from sharing a lawyer saying it would be a conflict of interest

00:37:44.980 to have a shared lawyer. OK, then he said the Supreme Court of Georgia reversed a conviction

00:37:50.380 against one guy in a different case, finding the D.A. had a conflict of interest in the case. Conflict of

00:37:56.720 interest can get the D.A. booted. Her conflict of interest is she's supposed to be fighting for justice, 1.00

00:38:01.640 not for a conviction. And instead, she's got a financial incentive to keep it rolling so she can go back to

00:38:06.620 Napa. The wine's delicious. Then secondly, he pointed, third, he pointed out, we're so worried

00:38:11.980 about a D.A.'s, about her being above any any sort of question about her ethics that we make only

00:38:20.340 taking rightful compensation part of her oath. The D.A., when sworn in, takes the following oath.

00:38:26.560 Swear that I will faithfully and partially and without fear, favor or affection, discharge my

00:38:30.440 duties as D.A. and will only take law, my lawful compensation. So help me, God. That's going to be

00:38:37.360 the argument that this was, in essence, a second form of compensation that she brought in a guy who

00:38:43.900 was not qualified to be her co-counsel and that the two of them have been seeing the world together

00:38:50.840 based on the taxpayer dime, which appears, frankly, to have been inflated by this guy and his 24-hour

00:38:58.640 billing cycle. Well, remember, Megan, he didn't just come on the case after the indictment. He was

00:39:05.280 the one who went before the grand jury. And the grand jurors afterwards thought he did a good job,

00:39:10.000 like he got high marks for what he did. He is someone who is- Okay. Have they tried felonies

00:39:14.600 before? I don't think they know what the standard is. Whether they do or they don't, it's still the

00:39:20.060 grand jury process. And that insulates it from a lot of the accusations that are here. This is not

00:39:24.400 a political witch hunt when you have a grand jury that indicted Trump and all the others.

00:39:29.180 Oh, my God. I know you don't believe that. I am hiring Dave if I can get in trouble. I am.

00:39:34.000 That's it. Mike, you're fired. I don't blame you. He's much better than I am. He's doing his best.

00:39:39.880 I can't say it with a straight face. No, he's doing his best. God love you. It's done.

00:39:45.000 Benny Willis, goodbye. I'm not going to learn how to pronounce your name because you're not going to be on

00:39:49.260 the case much longer. Go ahead. Yes. Say one more thing. One more thing. In the AJC article that you

00:39:53.880 quote, they have a split of opinions. So there are some Georgia lawyers who think she should be 1.00

00:39:58.880 balanced and others who say, no, this is not any violation. So there is a mix of opinions.

00:40:03.680 They found one guy who said, I'd be surprised if the allegations would sink the case. I mean,

00:40:12.160 go back and look at Stephen Gillers. Stephen Gillers is no conservative right-wing hack.

00:40:17.120 This guy, he calls him like he sees him. He literally wrote the book and he was all over

00:40:23.160 this in the first article that broke this case yesterday. All right. We haven't gotten to Trump's

00:40:27.940 immunity argument, which is the purpose of Mike and Dave getting a book today originally.

00:40:31.620 And that too is very interesting because that's an effort to get rid of the January 6th federal

00:40:36.200 prosecution against Trump entirely. I said yesterday it didn't go well for Trump's lawyer. And I stand by

00:40:42.140 that. However, one of the arguments does provide him with a serious glimmer of hope. And we'll pick

00:40:49.440 that up right after a quick break. So Trump and Jack Smith, his prosecutor went before the DC Circuit

00:41:00.240 Court of Appeals yesterday via their lawyers trying to argue on Trump's side, this whole January 6th

00:41:05.840 federal prosecution should be thrown out against Trump, claiming he has immunity for the acts in

00:41:12.420 question because he was a sitting president when he took them. My opinion, and having listened to most

00:41:19.760 of it, it did not go well for Trump. These three judges, two are Biden. Are they Biden appointees? Yeah,

00:41:26.080 they're both two are Biden appointees. And one's a George H.W. Bush appointee. None of them seemed

00:41:32.020 inclined to rule for Trump. But the glimmer of hope I was referencing before the break for Trump,

00:41:39.400 and tell me if you guys agree, is they did seem stuck on whether the standard for how to decide

00:41:46.240 this case needs further clarification, like what acts are at issue? And were they within his official

00:41:52.580 duties or were they more discretionary? And maybe we need to kick it back down to the trial court to have

00:41:59.100 a whole hearing that would illuminate us. And long and short of it is, Mike, that would delay the

00:42:05.200 case beyond the election. And that's really what Trump would like. He thinks he's going to win if

00:42:10.660 he wins. He, we're using you as his attorney general, can end this whole thing. So that's,

00:42:17.800 in essence, a kind of win for him if that's what they do. And they did seem kind of tempted to do

00:42:21.820 that. What did you think? Well, I think that what the DC Circuit should do, and I don't know if

00:42:26.920 they're going to do this, but I think at a bare minimum that they need, they need to hold that

00:42:31.080 presidents of the United States, just like members of Congress under the speech or debate clause

00:42:35.720 of the Constitution, just like federal judges under judicial immunity, are immune from both civil

00:42:41.760 and criminal prosecution for their official acts, right? And so judges can't be prosecuted

00:42:48.140 criminally for their official acts. Members of Congress can't be prosecuted criminally for their

00:42:53.420 official acts. That has not been decided for the president of the United States because a president

00:42:57.700 has never been charged until President Biden's special counsel, Jack Smith, brought this indictment

00:43:04.100 of a former president, two indictments of a former president, and then two Democrat DAs,

00:43:09.660 Fannie Willis, who we just talked about, and Alvin Bragg in New York, also indicted President Trump.

00:43:14.920 So now we have four indictments against a former president. The court is going to have to establish

00:43:20.740 that a president of the United States is criminally immune from prosecution because it just would not

00:43:26.220 make sense that you could be civilly immune, but you're not criminally immune. Do you think a

00:43:30.780 president of the United States should have to worry that his successor is going to prosecute him

00:43:36.480 for something he did within his official acts? Like, can the Trump 47 Justice Department

00:43:41.940 prosecute President Obama for the drone strike that killed two American citizens, including

00:43:47.580 a 16-year-old? Can the Trump 47 Justice Department charge Obama with capital murder? I mean, that would

00:43:54.100 be crazy, but that's the path we're heading down if the courts do not establish at a bare minimum

00:44:00.320 that presidents of the United States are immune from criminal prosecution, just like judges.

00:44:05.520 Let me get Dave to just weigh in on that much. Do you agree with that much, Dave?

00:44:08.880 I don't, because what Trump did was beyond his official acts as president.

00:44:16.200 No, that's okay. That's okay, but that's different. Do you agree that for the official acts? I mean,

00:44:20.720 like, he's right. Trump's already threatening to go after Joe Biden if Trump wins for the Afghanistan

00:44:25.940 withdrawal. And, like, Mike's raising a decent point that, like, we can't have presidents worrying

00:44:30.900 about doing things like drone strikes and getting prosecuted. Well, they do have immunity for civil

00:44:38.620 cases. Now, as far as criminal, I think there should be some level of immunity if you make a decision,

00:44:44.860 for example, like a drone strike on a foreign country. Right. But it has to be clear that it's

00:44:48.660 in your official capacity, like your official. I realize in this case, it's not as clear, but if it is

00:44:54.440 clear, shouldn't they be immune from this nonsense? If it's clear, right. The question is, is that

00:44:59.720 Trump's people are saying, you get the outer limits? And I would say, you don't get the outer

00:45:03.740 limits, because the outer limits is ill-defined, and you can just create a huge exception to the

00:45:08.940 rule there. So I'd only agree up to a very limited point. Okay. All right. So that was one of the

00:45:15.720 things they were trying to figure out. And Trump says, I did it all in my official capacity. There

00:45:21.300 need to be fair elections in the United States. And, you know, I had already lost the election. I wasn't

00:45:26.480 still campaigning. So everything I did was in my official capacity. Dave, I'll give that one to

00:45:31.680 you first. Right. Well, the constitution is clear. The states handled the elections. The president has

00:45:36.920 no role in that. And it is telling that even though he says, I wanted to ensure that there was no fraud,

00:45:42.940 he didn't call North Carolina. He won North Carolina by 75,000 votes. He lost Michigan by 155,000

00:45:50.220 votes. He called Michigan. He only called the states where he lost to try to overturn the election.

00:45:54.380 So what he was doing was as a candidate, not as a president who really cared about election fraud.

00:45:59.960 What do you make of it, Mike? Well, I mean, here's the deal. Dave agrees with us. Once you

00:46:05.960 establish that presidents are immune criminally, any president, not just Trump, any president is

00:46:11.540 immune from their official acts, then this case should get remanded back to this D.C. Obama judge,

00:46:18.640 Tanya Shudkin, where she holds a mini trial with Biden special counsel, Jack Smith.

00:46:23.940 And the Trump lawyers, and they have a mini trial on these immunity issues, and they figure out

00:46:28.200 what they think are official acts that are immune and what they think are private acts that are not

00:46:33.820 immune under presidential immunity. And under the case law, under civil immunity, it's the official

00:46:39.220 acts in the outer perimeter of his official acts, because they want to make very clear that presidents

00:46:44.160 are protected and they want to err on the side of protecting the president, right?

00:46:48.260 Okay. So how about that, Dave? Should it be remanded for a hearing on what's official and what's not?

00:46:57.060 No, I think based on the hearing yesterday, the argument from Trump's lawyers that you could

00:47:01.920 call out SEAL Team 6 and assassinate your political opponent was so overbored that, no,

00:47:08.480 I think this is an easy one. In this case, there is not absolute presidential immunity for the outer

00:47:12.540 acts. That is clear. I think that's a limited question that they had. They should reject it.

00:47:17.100 I think the Supreme Court's going to defer to them and let the trial commence in Washington, D.C.

00:47:22.060 Do you think so, Mike? I mean, do you agree with me that these three judges are not going to rule

00:47:25.540 in Trump's favor? The best he can hope for now is delay by kicking it back for a hearing, etc.

00:47:31.620 I actually hope that they don't rule in Trump's favor, because that means this case is going to

00:47:35.740 get delayed beyond the election, because the Supreme Court will have to take this case if the D.C.

00:47:40.760 Circuit does not hold at a bare minimum that a president of the United States is immune from

00:47:46.780 criminal prosecution for his official acts. If they do not hold that, the Supreme Court is going

00:47:51.980 to have to take this case. They're not going to rush to take this case. They're going to put it

00:47:56.320 on a pretty regular briefing and oral argument schedule, because there's no rush. They wait at

00:48:01.840 Jack Smith. The Biden Justice Department waited 30 months to bring these charges.

00:48:05.760 20 seconds left, Dave. Will the Supreme Court take the case if D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals rules

00:48:13.620 against Trump? I think probably not. I think they're going to defer, deny cert, deny review,

00:48:19.360 and kick it back to the D.C. Circuit. That's my prediction. That would be nice and clean for the

00:48:24.240 Supreme Court. Trump will not be happy, be the worst outcome for him. My God, great debate,

00:48:28.920 you guys. You're the best. Thanks for being here. Up next, Dean Phillips, who's challenging Biden.

00:48:35.760 Well, my next guest is U.S. Congressman Dean Phillips of Minnesota. You may know him better

00:48:41.700 as the man who is challenging President Biden for the Democratic Party's nomination for president.

00:48:47.940 He believes the president is, quote, in decline and too weak of a candidate to be running again.

00:48:54.200 He faces an uphill battle as the DNC and Democratic heavyweights are all working against him. They don't

00:49:00.540 want any challengers to President Biden. But anyone willing to challenge the status quo is someone

00:49:05.660 we would like to talk to. So Congressman Phillips, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here.

00:49:11.300 It's great to be with you, Megan. Thank you.

00:49:13.780 So your story, your backstory is pretty interesting. As I understand it, you were raised in a successful

00:49:19.140 family and then you kind of took over the family business for a while and parlayed that. It was

00:49:25.080 like, I think, the liquor business or some sort of beverage business. And then you're the guy behind

00:49:30.840 the gelato, Talanti. How do you pronounce it? I never know when I buy it in the store.

00:49:35.300 Talanti, talent, talent with an I. It's very easy to remember. Talent with an I.

00:49:40.200 That's your company. That's sort of what you were doing before you ran for Congress.

00:49:44.200 Yeah, with two partners. But I'll tell you, but Megan, my story actually starts really

00:49:47.660 differently than what you refer to, which is I lost my dad in Vietnam. He was a U.S. soldier,

00:49:51.580 a captain in the Army, and used an ROTC scholarship to pursue education, was sent to Vietnam in 1968,

00:49:58.440 right before I was born, and was killed in July of 69 in a helicopter crash, literally just three

00:50:03.560 days after the U.S. landed on the moon. And I lost my dad. I was six months old. My mom was 24 and

00:50:10.700 widowed, and we had nowhere to go. So we stayed with my great-grandparents for my first three years.

00:50:16.460 And then I got really lucky, Megan. I was adopted by a father who married my mom,

00:50:20.980 brought me into an amazing family of businesses and philanthropy, a lot of advice. Dear Abby and

00:50:27.020 Ann Landers were my grandmother and my aunt. And I got lucky. And in a way, what I'm doing now

00:50:33.460 is to pay it back. It shouldn't just take a stroke of good luck or the zip code in which you're born

00:50:39.800 to determine your outcome. And I think it's a responsibility of people like me who've been

00:50:44.360 successful because of good fortune and hard work to pay it forward.

00:50:48.360 All right. So I was going to back into the loss of your dad, because that's sad. I didn't want to

00:50:52.940 start with that. But I understand that you went back to the site where his helicopter went down

00:50:59.060 on a congressional delegation trip. Can you tell us about that?

00:51:03.600 Yeah. I first did it. I did a trip with a bunch of buddies, actually. It wasn't,

00:51:06.720 this was not a congressional trip. It was on my own with some friends. I did a bicycle trip in Vietnam

00:51:11.680 and then took that occasion, my first time in Vietnam, to actually go visit the site where my

00:51:17.220 dad was killed, where he took his last breath. It was a helicopter crash into a mountain called

00:51:21.760 Dragon Mountain in Pleiku, Vietnam. The helicopter was really a cross-section of America. It was two

00:51:27.060 Jewish guys, two black guys, an Italian guy, and then a Mexican national, David Valdez, who aspired to

00:51:34.740 be an American. And he joined the United States Army, went to Vietnam, and became a naturalized U.S.

00:51:40.020 citizen just weeks before he was killed in that crash. And my dear friend, the actor Woody Harrelson,

00:51:45.680 joined me to go to the crash site. And making it was one of the most powerful, meaningful,

00:51:51.660 heart-touching moments of my entire life to be literally at the very site where he took his

00:51:57.240 last breath. And in some ways, I took my first. It was a very inspiring experience.

00:52:01.920 And I'll tell you, the best part of the story, I haven't even told the best part of the story.

00:52:05.280 When I got back to the United States, the Today Show did a really nice spot about my visit.

00:52:10.020 And it opened the door to what I wanted my whole life, which was to meet the only survivor of the

00:52:16.080 crash, the co-pilot, a man named Tom Devereaux, who had never been able to track down in 30 years.

00:52:21.820 I sent one email. I thought it would be the final time I'd give it a shot. And sure enough, when I got

00:52:27.240 back home, his wife answered and invited me to his 80th birthday party in Colorado Springs, which I

00:52:32.860 attended this summer. And I got to hug the very man who survived that crash. I think it was a beautiful

00:52:38.680 experience for him and a really meaningful one for me. And just another story of reconciliation that

00:52:43.160 I wish our country would work on a lot more right now.

00:52:47.300 Well, God bless you. And God bless your dad and your family for their sacrifice. I'm sure you

00:52:53.140 understand the plight of military families in a very unique and personal way as a result. And

00:52:58.300 that piece of your story is a good thing. I mean, it's a good thing to have guys like you serving who

00:53:02.760 get the sacrifice of not just those who serve, but the families around them.

00:53:07.720 Exactly. Because they serve too. I don't think we appreciate that, Megan, how difficult it is for

00:53:12.620 families when their moms or dads go overseas for deployments for months. You know what that's like

00:53:17.340 when you're a kid and your mom or dad's away for months at a time? Or you can, by the way,

00:53:21.240 the number of military families that are on SNAP or food stamps and need rental support, it's really

00:53:27.020 appalling that we can always find the money to send young men and women to war. And then they come 0.97

00:53:31.780 home and we fail to provide the services and support that they deserve, that they've earned.

00:53:36.500 And it doesn't matter if you're a Democrat or Republican, we should really enhance our esteem

00:53:41.460 for not just veterans, but their families. Amen to that. Okay, let's move on to some substantive

00:53:47.760 issues because I want to ask you about some news of the day and then we'll get into your candidacy

00:53:51.800 and what you're doing, right? Like why you're doing this. We just left off after an hour talking

00:53:57.400 about Fannie Willis down in Georgia and the case that she's been bringing and these new

00:54:03.020 allegations against her, which have many, I say, objective lawyers, lawyers who I tend to see

00:54:09.500 bashing Trump. Even they are saying if this is true, that she's had an affair with a special

00:54:14.300 prosecutor, that they've been taking trips together after he's been getting rich on the

00:54:18.600 taxpayer's dime. She's got a serious appearance of impropriety that could result in her disqualification 1.00

00:54:24.660 and should. What do you make of it? So you make, and this is just another symptom of a really

00:54:30.340 contagious and dangerous disease, perhaps even more dangerous than COVID, which is diseases of

00:54:36.120 corruption, of unethical behavior, and frankly, a disregard for the very public offices that we

00:54:42.380 take an oath to the constitution in which to serve. And I don't care if you're a Democrat or Republican,

00:54:47.780 there are wrongdoers on both sides of the aisle. And I'm just really disgusted as I know you are too,

00:54:53.800 that it appears to most Americans who've lost total faith in government. Why? And for reasons

00:54:59.200 why, I understand. But when you see members of a party only defending their own, never, ever,

00:55:05.800 never calling out the truth, saying the quiet part out loud about those who might be affiliated in the

00:55:10.500 same party, that is a dereliction of duty. And I guess I've gotten myself in trouble for being honest,

00:55:17.000 for calling it like I see it. You know, I condemned Donald Trump after January 6th. I was trapped in

00:55:22.480 the House chamber that day. I was subject to that insurrection like this whole country.

00:55:27.640 You know, that's, but why would I then not call BS when I see it on my side of the aisle?

00:55:33.500 And I think that disease of silence, of staying in line, of fear, is a contagious disease on both

00:55:39.940 sides. And I'm telling you, whether it's Senator Menendez in the Senate, whether it's this allegation

00:55:45.280 in Georgia, whether it's Hunter Biden, you know, gross activity, unethical behavior, and corruption

00:55:51.980 is what it is. And it doesn't matter your political stripes. We should call it out. We should be

00:55:57.100 consistent. And we should demand that people in the highest positions of power in the United States

00:56:02.060 of America are honest about the truth. And the erosion of that, Megan, is dangerous. And that's why I'm

00:56:08.360 trying my darndest right now to call attention to what I consider to be the obvious. And that is,

00:56:13.580 we have a culture of corruption that has to be addressed.

00:56:16.840 It's so refreshing to hear you say it. You know, we used to live in a society where

00:56:20.440 there were Dems like you, and there were Republicans too, who felt this way and could

00:56:24.780 meet across the aisle and talk about, agree on just the most egregious behavior. And it's,

00:56:29.320 it's just been lost. It's been lost.

00:56:32.100 Well, not totally. I hate to interrupt you, but let me tell you, I will make this claim.

00:56:36.860 Angertainment, which I consider to be the evening cable news, would love to have us believe,

00:56:41.320 you know, they would love to have us believe that we are more divided than we really are.

00:56:45.200 Of course, because it generates billions of dollars in revenue and attracts eyeballs.

00:56:49.500 But I can tell you from personal experience, Megan, that I love my Republican brothers and

00:56:54.140 sisters. The principled handful with whom I've worked out for the last five years,

00:56:59.200 with whom I've been in the trenches, with whom I've created human relationships and trustful ones,

00:57:03.920 they're really good people. They're also beholden to this disgusting system that forces a change in

00:57:09.320 behavior, even among the most principled people on earth. And I'm telling you, I've gotten more

00:57:14.640 beautiful texts from my Republican colleagues over the last number of weeks, including one yesterday

00:57:19.280 from someone who would shock you because they're kind and they're generous. And it's not about Biden.

00:57:24.780 It's not about politics. It's just saying, hope you're hanging in there, man. I appreciate your

00:57:27.960 courage. You know, I hope you're doing well. And by the way, after October 7th, I got more notes from

00:57:33.800 my Republican colleagues just saying, Hey, you're on my mind. You know, I'm sure this is tough for you and

00:57:38.520 your community. And I tell you, those go a long way. So I don't want your viewers to think

00:57:43.260 that all is lost. In fact, that's why I'm running for president, Megan, is to demonstrate to the

00:57:48.120 country that not only can we work together, we damn well have to. And I celebrate that. And that's

00:57:54.640 why I would have a bipartisan cabinet and the best and brightest, a team of rivals, because I really love

00:58:00.040 learning from my conservative colleagues, of whom there are many of great capacity intellectually.

00:58:05.600 A couple of questions on that. Does anyone stand out? Any nice names to offer up?

00:58:11.020 Oh, sure. I can tell you, Dusty Johnson, an extraordinarily principled conservative with whom

00:58:15.300 I have a great relationship and have worked very diligently on the Problem Solvers Caucus.

00:58:20.080 Brian Stile, I think a wonderful young conservative with great intellect and great capacity to lead.

00:58:26.520 One of my best friends in Congress was Anthony Gonzalez, of course, who was the

00:58:30.040 young Republican from Ohio, who has now since left Congress. You know, William Timmons, who led the

00:58:35.460 Modernization Committee on which I served. I see great potential in. I can keep going on down the list

00:58:40.560 of really good people that I've worked with directly. By the way, I just wish more people

00:58:45.680 would make their decisions about other human beings after they've worked with them, gotten to know them

00:58:50.420 a little bit. If we did that, we might change our opinion on a lot of people. And I sure have

00:58:55.160 myself. And by the way, Chip Roy, Chip and I worked on the first bill that I had signed into law was

00:59:01.200 during COVID, the Paycheck Protection Program Flexibility Act. Chip and I, you would never

00:59:05.940 imagine the number two bipartisan member of Congress, which is me. Chip is probably 430 or so, but we're

00:59:12.260 buddies. Right. It's pretty conservative. Yeah. But that's not that's why we like each other. And we've

00:59:19.240 worked together on that bill. Donald Trump signed it into law. And the only reason we saved probably

00:59:24.440 thousands of businesses and hundreds of thousands of jobs is because he and I took the time to build

00:59:30.280 a relationship. And by the way, Tim Burchett, I think the most funny, human, wonderful person in

00:59:36.660 Congress could be none other than Tim Burchett of Tennessee. He brings levity when we need it.

00:59:43.420 He is my brother and a man I have great affection for. And again, we don't see it the same way. We vote

00:59:48.340 quite differently, but we sure respect each other. And I'm just on a mission to let people in America

00:59:53.140 know, because you'd never hear it on television, that there are a lot of us that actually have

00:59:57.200 really good relationships. And our generation is trying to rise right now so that we can end

01:00:01.820 this nonsense, period. See, this this conversation is reminding me of the one I had with another

01:00:07.240 Democrat who ultimately left Congress. And that's Tulsi Gabbard, who went also, you know, very pro

01:00:13.660 military. She's a member of it and went to Congress with a well-meaning intent. And she was more of a

01:00:18.700 centrist like you are and just was so disillusioned by what the party did to her, too. Right. She was

01:00:25.380 not on board the Hillary train and really felt like they turned on her and you are not exactly

01:00:30.380 on board. You're supportive of Joe Biden. You just don't think he should be reelected for we'll get to

01:00:34.440 the reasons. And she's just so disillusioned now. You know, they kind of ran it right out of Congress.

01:00:40.980 She's like, why would I want to be here? And it just seems to me like that body will either just

01:00:46.160 pound the soul right out of you to where you submit. You become hard, hardly partisan and go

01:00:51.580 along and do what they want or you leave. Yeah, you got it. It's it's I've never seen in my entire

01:00:58.440 life. I've been affiliated with a lot of companies, institutions, organizations. I got to tell you,

01:01:03.320 Megan, if you tried to design the most dysfunctional, ridiculous institution from scratch, 0.99

01:01:09.920 imaginable, you would design the current U.S. Congress. Our founders would be so disgusted because, 0.98

01:01:15.780 by the way, they didn't they didn't set the rules. They anticipated future generations of Americans

01:01:21.040 who would put their country first and set aside political nonsense. And the truth is Democrats

01:01:26.600 and Republicans for generations have set rules in Congress designed to do two things, eliminate

01:01:32.800 competition and protect the power structure. And by the way, who do we typically elevate to positions

01:01:38.180 of power in Congress? The people who raise the most money. How do you raise the most money? Oh,

01:01:43.560 by the way, anybody in politics can become famous quickly. You just got to be a jerk. 1.00

01:01:47.440 And those of us who actually try to do our jobs with dignity and respect and decency and competency 1.00

01:01:52.700 are watching our colleagues play by this new system of rules, which rewards idiots. They become very 1.00

01:02:00.400 successful politically. They raise a ton of money. And we all watch that. And yes, it is soul sucking.

01:02:06.540 And I still have every intention to do what I can to make that culture work because I know it can.

01:02:11.580 It just takes leadership. And that's why I'm running for president, Megan, because from the

01:02:15.020 White House, you sound like the grandson of Dear Abby and Ann Landers. I mean, it sounds like you

01:02:20.240 have a good head on your shoulders. But I have to ask you, out of all the advice, my gosh, we all

01:02:26.060 look to our nanas for advice. Was there anything that stood out? Is there like a couple gems that you

01:02:30.740 want to share? I'll tell you, this is actually a story I don't tell regularly, but it was actually my

01:02:36.260 grandmother, Dear Abby, who anointed me a Democrat. And I'll tell you a quick story.

01:02:40.140 My first political experience ever, I show up to school, I think I was seventh grade, 1980.

01:02:46.000 And who speaks at our assembly that day? But John Anderson, Congressman John Anderson,

01:02:50.520 the Republican from Illinois, who decided to run. And I never imagined I would draw this arc,

01:02:55.260 but it's very connected. He ran for president as an independent. And he came to our school

01:03:00.240 and he told us that day, and I remember it vividly. He talked about the need for independence

01:03:04.780 and politics, which I didn't understand at the time. And he talked about money and politics,

01:03:09.160 which I didn't understand at the time either. But I was really excited. I got to dinner that

01:03:13.220 night with my family, including my grandma, who sat next to me. She asked about my day. And I said,

01:03:17.680 it was amazing. The next president of the United States came to our school. And she laughed. I

01:03:22.560 remember and said, look, if he's speaking to a bunch of seventh graders in the summer before an

01:03:26.280 election, he's probably not going to win. So that was a note to self. And then she said,

01:03:31.240 but hey, before you continue, are you a Democrat or Republican? And I said, grandma, I'm 11 years

01:03:36.120 old. I don't even know what those are. And she said, you're a Democrat. She anointed me a Democrat

01:03:40.640 in 1980 at Murray's Steakhouse in downtown Minneapolis. I'll never forget it.

01:03:46.760 I had to tell you, I had a similar experience. My Nana said to me, I said, are we Republicans or

01:03:52.060 Democrats? And she said, Republicans are for rich people. We're Democrats. That was her impression,

01:03:58.920 right? She was born in 1915. And all the Republicans she knew had money. She thought 0.88

01:04:03.040 tax cuts were bad, right? She wanted more taxes because she thought she might benefit from them 0.99

01:04:07.020 and so on. Of course, the world has been turned on its head now. But I can understand the imprint

01:04:12.080 of the Nana on one's future. I'll tell you one other story that's really important about her. And

01:04:16.860 this was how she operated. By the way, she only became Dear Abby and my aunt and Landers because of 1.00

01:04:21.620 Senator Joe McCarthy in Wisconsin, 1950. My grandma, my aunt were housewives in Eau Claire, Wisconsin.

01:04:28.120 And his antics during the Red Scare literally got them out of the house into activism. It brought

01:04:35.080 one of them to Chicago, Ann Landers, who became Ann Landers in Chicago. My grandma ended up going to 0.86

01:04:40.060 San Francisco. But had it not been for Senator McCarthy's communist scare, the world never would

01:04:46.040 have known Dear Abby and Ann Landers. And my grandma said one thing all the time. If you don't know the

01:04:50.500 answer, find someone who does. And I'll tell you, when she passed away and I was the recipient of her

01:04:57.020 old Rolodex, and I'm talking about like the old Rolodex, Megan, I'm telling you, thousands of names

01:05:02.740 by category. And when I tell you the most extraordinary, prestigious, well-educated names

01:05:09.000 in everything you could possibly imagine, when someone wrote her a letter with a problem,

01:05:13.680 she didn't know the answer, but she knew somebody that did. And that was her lesson to me.

01:05:17.980 Don't pretend you know, find someone that does. And that's exactly what good leadership entails.

01:05:22.460 Well, it's very cool. And, you know, I feel for you having jumped from what seems like a lovely

01:05:27.540 business, the ice cream, into something that's incredibly toxic. I always say I work in such a

01:05:32.820 toxic stew and I'm only on the outskirts. You know, I'm a reporter covering politics. I'm not

01:05:38.980 actually in politics, and I'm sure it's been very eye-opening. Let me get to a couple of these

01:05:43.520 issues. You mentioned Hunter Biden. What did you make of him coming onto the House floor today after

01:05:49.360 having flouted the subpoena? Just like, hey, here I am, the prince. I can do what I want.

01:05:54.580 Megan, I'm just, you know, frankly, I recall the days where, you know, presidents were presidents.

01:06:01.280 The first lady typically, you know, made appearances on occasion. But the family was 0.96

01:06:05.280 usually secondary or off-limits if they were children. But they didn't really engage

01:06:09.760 in the leadership platform, if you will. And look, I'm appalled. You know, I wasn't thrilled with

01:06:16.520 how the Trump family was engaged. I'm not thrilled with how the president's brother and son, clearly,

01:06:22.480 who are both unethical people, are engaged. I've seen no evidence, by the way. I just want to make

01:06:27.060 it clear. And if I had, I would let you know right away. I've not seen any evidence that Hunter's

01:06:31.640 indiscretions lead to the president himself. But the man is clearly unethical. He clearly was an

01:06:38.300 addict and is recovering, and I do give him credit for that. But this is just sickening. You know, 0.98

01:06:42.700 Americans right now, by the way, Megan, they don't give a hoot about Hunter Biden, ultimately. They

01:06:47.160 don't give a crap about all the BS going on in the Congress right now. They are suffering so badly 0.99

01:06:52.920 the cost of health care, housing, education, food, and fuel. And they look at what happens in our

01:06:58.820 United States Congress, and they must think to themselves every day, like, what in the world

01:07:03.380 is going on? Nobody's listening to me. No one cares. Nobody hears me. But you know what? Donald Trump

01:07:10.640 heard him. And that's exactly why Joe Biden is losing, and he will lose in the next election,

01:07:15.160 because all the coverage is about Hunter Biden or this or that. And the idea at the end of the day

01:07:20.260 is that people are not being heard. We have a crisis at the southern border. We have wars around the

01:07:24.220 world. People can't afford their lives. And this is what people consider important. Hunter Biden should

01:07:30.540 go away, should go away. And I think what he's doing today is foolish. There is some evidence against 1.00

01:07:37.740 Joe Biden. I don't want to make this all about the corruption case. We've done a lot of deep dives

01:07:40.940 on it. But let's let's table the evidence that he was involved. 10% for the big guy emails to that

01:07:47.600 effect. Is it appropriate for a sitting vice president to allow his son to sit on the board

01:07:53.100 of a Ukrainian energy company when he, the vice president, is in charge of Ukrainian policy?

01:07:57.860 No, no. In fact, I'm still shocked. Now, look at anybody who's a parent. We all know the more you

01:08:05.080 tell your kids you can't do something. You know, they're more likely to do it. It doesn't matter

01:08:08.880 their age. That's when they're eight. I know. I'm just saying generally, Megan. And no, I just

01:08:13.000 answered that. Have you ever had anyone answer the question so directly? The answer is no. He

01:08:17.140 shouldn't have. I cannot believe that the sitting vice president would have condoned it or even

01:08:25.100 allowed it. It is so egregious. It is so wrong. And it is such an example of why Americans have no 0.99

01:08:30.580 faith in their government. They can't seem to find a politician who actually cares and is actually

01:08:36.500 ethical and is actually transparent. And that's why I understand.

01:08:39.900 And who won't sell out. Who won't sell out. Right. It's just like. And of course,

01:08:45.240 all these politicians were supposed to sort of get into office and then get out. Right. Not be

01:08:49.280 lifetime politicians. That's what Joe Biden is. So many. It's not he's it's on both sides. And now

01:08:54.680 we've got these 80 year old lawmakers and now we have to, you know, octogenarians are near running

01:09:00.480 for president. So that brings me to you. How old are you? I'm 54. OK, I should. I don't want to

01:09:09.480 mislead people. I'm going to be 55 on January 20th. So there you go. OK, very, very young for the

01:09:15.300 record. I like it. So you're running for president and you I know you've said you've been asked about

01:09:19.760 the fact that you say you totally agree with Joe Biden's policies. You're 100 percent behind

01:09:23.260 his policies, but not his candidacy. So why is there a need for Dean Phillips?

01:09:31.900 Oh, let me start with policy. You know, I have voted for his policies. Does that mean I'm 100 percent

01:09:36.940 behind his entire platform? Not at all. In fact, I think I'm one of the only Democrats

01:09:41.080 pointing out the other truth, which is we have a crisis at the southern border that is embarrassing,

01:09:47.040 undescribable and frankly, unforgivable. And that is a responsibility of a number of administrations

01:09:54.380 from the past, Democrats and Republicans. But it's true. And I'm a Democrat telling you that 0.50

01:09:58.660 we have got to secure our border and also our northern border. Megan, we are not far away from

01:10:04.380 where we have migration waves of millions of people who are fleeing war or famine or lack of water.

01:10:11.000 And, you know, the fact that we don't put a high, the highest priority of the American president

01:10:16.560 should be secure borders. And it's a big problem. I favor the legalization of cannabis. That's a big

01:10:22.040 difference. I'm an investor in peace and I do that through strength. But I do believe that it is the

01:10:28.200 failures of Joe Biden in the past that we have the crisis in the Middle East and also Ukraine.

01:10:32.500 And these are truths. I voted for the agenda, which, by the way, were investments in America.

01:10:38.680 My proposition, Megan, is to invest in Americans. And that means housing, health care, education,

01:10:44.920 and to ensure the prices for food and fuel are something that every middle class family in America

01:10:50.280 can afford. So that's the policy difference. As for the pragmatism, Joe Biden is going to lose to

01:10:57.120 Donald Trump. Now, I have affection and appreciation for principled conservatives. In fact,

01:11:02.500 I want those ideas embedded in my own policy perspectives. I do have animus towards Donald

01:11:09.020 Trump, not Trumpers, but Donald Trump. And Joe Biden is going to lose to him. And if it's Nikki

01:11:13.760 Haley, if you're a Democrat, Nikki Haley is ahead by 17 points over Joe Biden in the last Wall Street

01:11:20.120 Journal poll. So there is a Democratic delusion and frankly, frankly, a hypocrisy of democracy based on

01:11:27.020 what the DNC is doing in Florida and North Carolina, here in New Hampshire, where I am right now.

01:11:31.160 And I'm on a mission to say the quiet part out loud, speak truth to power, and give Americans the

01:11:39.060 chance to completely turn the page to a totally different chapter if we want to. And that's my

01:11:45.760 proposition. It is not some bold claim that we could never achieve. It's not demeaning everybody

01:11:52.200 who comes in my path. It's trying to return to a time where competency, integrity, decency, and

01:11:58.700 experience all play together. And we work together and fight for each other instead of against each

01:12:05.040 other. And that is my proposition. That's how I wake up every day. You make a point of distinguishing

01:12:09.880 between Trump, who you don't like, and Trumpers, people who support him, MAGA. That's very different

01:12:15.480 from our sitting president, who, you know, the dark Brandon speech, ultra MAGA. He's been trying

01:12:20.980 to demonize Trump supporters pretty much at every turn. And what we hear is that that's his plan for

01:12:26.600 the next year. Like just demonize Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, and his supporters. We don't

01:12:31.280 want to empower these people. Why do you disagree with that? Well, first of all, and by the way,

01:12:36.480 this is a symptom of the disease you just mentioned, which is people who've been serving in Washington

01:12:41.280 for decades. Joe Biden has never had a job outside of the public sector. He's been in Washington,

01:12:48.340 I think, since 1972, since I was three years old. How would he even ever know how to create a compelling

01:12:55.480 strategy that I've done my whole life in the private sector? I've never built a business, Megan,

01:13:00.220 by demeaning my customers or telling them they suck or they're dumb or they don't matter. It's just 1.00

01:13:06.240 the opposite. The whole reason I won my first race in Congress in 2018 and flipped a district

01:13:11.260 that had been Republican since 1958 is I used invitation, not confrontation. I have great

01:13:17.700 affection for all Americans. And I'm equally angry. I'm angry at Washington. I'm angry about the two-party

01:13:24.280 system. I'm angry we don't have term limits. And I'm really angry that amazing, hardworking Americans

01:13:30.320 who bust their tails to make ends meet for their family and invest in their country are totally

01:13:36.060 ignored in huge swaths of this country. They matter. I hear you. I invite you. And I want

01:13:42.500 to work together to make life better for the people who really have been forgotten about and why Democrats

01:13:48.480 ignore that. Not only ignore, but condemn, condemn these people. I'm appalled. And that's why I think

01:13:55.140 we need competition. And that's why I'm providing it. And I'm just hopeful that people who are frustrated

01:14:00.080 like I am. We do need competition. We'll see whether the Democrats allow it. They're very good

01:14:03.820 at stifling. Very good at stifling. Just ask Bernie Sanders. They're working hard right now. Believe me

01:14:07.520 on me. They're working really hard. Oh, I realize. I mean, I've been watching. They, I mean, they're very

01:14:12.840 good at what they do. I have to give them some credit on that. They're better at that than winning

01:14:16.660 elections. I'll tell you that. Yeah. Well, we'll see. The border. You've spoken about your feelings

01:14:23.240 shared by, I think by most of our audience today, there's news you've probably seen out of Brooklyn

01:14:28.740 at this James Madison high school where now, uh, they are moving. They moved 2000 immigrants, 0.94

01:14:35.520 illegal immigrants into a high school. They're kicked the students out from school said, okay, 0.96

01:14:41.300 here they are arriving. You can do remote learning instead. And now we found out today,

01:14:46.340 it's not even remote learning. It's just remote homework assignments. The children have to request

01:14:51.700 a zoom with a teacher. If they would like to have actual instruction in their taxpayer funded

01:14:57.620 school, because the people who came to the country illegally are now in their homerooms and their 1.00

01:15:04.420 classrooms. What do you make of this? It's a massive failure, a massive failure in leadership

01:15:10.900 period. And let me say this to Megan. I know you probably feel the same way. Those poor kids

01:15:16.100 whose parents bring them across the border, you know, for the same reasons that my four mothers and

01:15:20.680 forefathers and probably yours came to America, which is to flee persecution and find a better

01:15:26.120 life. I mean, I'm sure that's what most of these poor kids and their families want, but I'll tell

01:15:31.720 you, um, the leadership failure is just extraordinary. And that's why when I'm president, Megan, I can fix

01:15:37.440 this. We can have border security. We can have a buffer zone on both sides of the border barriers,

01:15:42.680 better technologies, completely redesigned ports of entry for both commerce and people. But if we

01:15:48.720 really want to fix the problem, Megan, it's way too late once they come to the border. It's our asylum

01:15:54.040 system. It's our policy that is actually responsible for the problem itself. And I'm sure you know this.

01:16:00.460 We force people who wish to declare asylum to cross our border and they have to wait. They have to spend 1.00

01:16:06.840 $10,000 roughly per person. They give it to a Mexican cartel, which by the way, then uses it to

01:16:12.620 hurt our country. And then they come across the border. They're processed by border patrol.

01:16:17.820 They're dumped in the streets of El Paso or somewhere else with not a penny in their pocket,

01:16:22.120 the inability to work and nowhere to go other than told to show up at a court case, maybe three or four

01:16:27.520 years from now. So what can we do? It is so simple. We've changed the law to force the declaration of

01:16:34.060 asylum cases in your country of origin. So if you're coming from, say, El Salvador and you feel

01:16:39.080 unsafe, you go to the consulate or the embassy, you make an application for asylum. We can build

01:16:44.440 inexpensive dormitories next to our consulates or something to keep people safe temporarily.

01:16:49.560 We adjudicate their cases there. They hold on to their $10,000. And if they qualify, we bring them

01:16:56.440 to America. They can work and they have $10,000 to start their lives here instead of having to rely on

01:17:03.200 the public sector. So why wouldn't we do that? Why wouldn't we make a simple change? And the

01:17:08.500 reason is simple. Well, you tell me. We talk about it all the time. Why? What is it about the open

01:17:14.180 border that is appeasing or pleasing to Democrats, including Joe Biden? There has to be an answer

01:17:19.860 because otherwise we wouldn't have such a sieve. Because politicians are focused on winning the next

01:17:26.080 election. Executives and those that come from the private sector like me, we want to solve problems

01:17:31.420 and then and then turn it over to somebody else. And every single person I've encountered in

01:17:36.760 Washington, D.C., Megan, they want to stick around as long as possible. I've torpedoed my career in

01:17:42.780 Congress by design, by design. I knew I was going to root for Biden, right? Yeah, by challenging the

01:17:49.220 president. I knew my party would completely disenfranchise me. I knew that would be hard to

01:17:53.400 come back. And my goodness, everything I expected has happened. I wish we had more people in Washington

01:17:58.620 that would knowingly torpedo their career to get something done. That's what I want my legacy.

01:18:04.100 Can you expand on that? Like what what blowback have you received?

01:18:07.620 Oh, well, you know, well, I will tell you that the tactics are mostly behind the scenes.

01:18:13.540 The the inability to attract any media interest is actually a function of the strategy,

01:18:20.220 telling donors, telling media hosts, telling networks that they better be careful if they

01:18:25.560 platform me or support me because they're watching. And of course, you know, better than

01:18:29.600 anybody, you know, the lifeblood of Fox or MSNBC is access to the administration, information and

01:18:35.560 people. And if you do something to risk that flow, you are literally risking billions of dollars of

01:18:41.100 revenue. So, you know, that the other is the White House has given a warning to the CNNs and

01:18:45.520 MSNBCs of the world, like and maybe the mainstream, you know, the broadcast channels,

01:18:49.640 like don't put them on. Otherwise, no access. I have. I let me just say this until I see hard

01:18:55.860 evidence of anything. I will not say with absolute certainty. But do I have anecdotal evidence? Lots

01:19:00.580 of it. Yes. But that's who I am, by the way. Unless I see or hear firsthand. I'm not going to

01:19:05.460 tell you I know. I don't know. But does it do I think? Absolutely. And do I have some pretty good

01:19:09.920 evidence? Yes. That's how the game works. State parties. Let me tell you another way. The Democratic

01:19:14.900 National Committee clearly communicated with the Florida Democratic Party to remove all

01:19:20.380 candidates from the ballot other than Joe Biden, announcing essentially that the four million

01:19:24.580 Democrats in Florida do not need to have a primary because Joe Biden already won. Same thing in North

01:19:31.100 Carolina. Only one name submitted by the Democratic Party to be on the ballot, Joe Biden. And by the way,

01:19:36.060 I'm not a fly by night candidate. You know, I'm a third term sitting member of Congress. I was a member

01:19:40.760 of House Democratic leadership elected by my peers. I'm the I'm the ranking member of the Middle East

01:19:45.900 Subcommittee on Foreign Affairs. You know, I'm not a fly by night candidate. And they are intentionally

01:19:51.480 suppressing voters, intentionally suppressing candidates and intentionally suppressing debate.

01:19:58.180 So the hypocrisy of democracy is alive and well, and I'm going to call attention to it. And that's why

01:20:02.960 they're very, very upset with me. And I know how a lot of my friends on the other side of the aisle who

01:20:08.600 had the audacity to speak their principles, how they felt when the MAGA machine turned against

01:20:14.640 them. It is discomforting. And that's really my call to action, Megan, is to the exhausted majority

01:20:19.920 of thoughtful center right and center left Americans. If you really want to do something

01:20:25.500 about this, support someone like Nikki Haley or me. You know, why not? Why not turn the page?

01:20:32.300 Like Trump said, what have you got to lose? All right, stand by. Hold that thought. Much more to

01:20:36.180 discuss. We'll get into a couple of the platform reasons. And I'll give this is a tease. Congressman

01:20:41.020 Phillips, we'll get into why not. Right. I've got a lot of center writers and some center lefters

01:20:45.800 listening to this show. So we'll talk about a couple of the issues and see how that goes. Stand by.

01:20:51.720 I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly show on Sirius XM. It's your home for open, honest and

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01:21:49.640 Okay, so quick question on Mr. Biden. Too old or mentally infirm?

01:22:00.860 Well, Americans are making it very clear. They feel he's too old. By the way, Donald Trump's only a few

01:22:05.520 years younger, I think four years younger. So there's clearly some disconnect. But Americans

01:22:10.320 have opined. I think 75 percent of the country has said that they believe he's too old. It's more about

01:22:15.980 stage of life than anything. I think people see the decline in his ability to communicate and his

01:22:21.140 physical infirmity on occasion. I do not see any evidence of any cognitive issue to be forthright.

01:22:27.500 I want to make that really clear. But once Americans have made up their mind about who they want

01:22:32.220 representing our country in the future, you've got to listen to the numbers. Now, politicians lie all the

01:22:37.160 time, but the numbers don't. And the numbers are very clear. They do believe he's too old. And both,

01:22:43.260 by the way, I think most Americans want to turn the page from both Donald Trump and Joe Biden.

01:22:48.040 That's really the case. Seven and seven percent believe he's too old. And I think it's over 65%

01:22:52.980 of Democrats share that same opinion. How about Kamala Harris? If President Biden were to step down, 0.76

01:23:00.520 would she need to go too? Because I know you pointed this out and then got chastised for it. But

01:23:05.420 you know as well as I do that the American populace, including the Democrats,

01:23:08.820 are not huge fans of Kamala Harris. I see the numbers and that's what I was referring to.

01:23:14.540 And here's my very basic point for Democrats. Look at what the GOP is doing right now. There is a

01:23:20.500 very spirited competition, despite having Donald Trump, the former president, in the race.

01:23:26.840 Democrats should be behaving exactly the same way. If it's Vice President Harris, if it's Gavin Newsom,

01:23:32.460 Gretchen Whitmer, me, whoever wants to, the whole point is to practice democracy. 0.59

01:23:37.480 So I'm not going to opine on whether it's Newsom or Harris or me or somebody else. That's the whole

01:23:42.020 point of democracy, is let each of us make our case. If your numbers are low because people don't

01:23:46.780 know you, well, then you get a chance to make them go up. And the best part about not being well-known

01:23:51.320 like me is that two-thirds of the country doesn't hate me. And that's actually a real benefit.

01:23:56.540 You know what it's like in this day and age. It's hard.

01:23:59.460 No, it's very hard to be not hated. Do you think she'd be a good president, Kamala Harris?

01:24:04.020 I don't. My experience with the vice president has always been reasonable, decent, and she seems

01:24:11.300 effective to me. But that's not, that's my perspective. And at the end of the day, I would

01:24:16.160 like to see anybody compete in a Democratic primary that wishes to. And of course, I support one person

01:24:24.840 right now to replace Joe Biden, and that is me. I'm prepared. My experience is, I think, perfect for

01:24:30.680 this job. And at the time to meet the moment, my style of leadership is exactly what the country

01:24:35.820 needs. So I'm not going to opine on who it is. And I know, look, I know that's what attracts eyeballs

01:24:40.180 and you want me to say something about her or Gavin Newsom.

01:24:42.340 No, I'm just curious. I think I know the answer. I just don't, I don't think you want to say it.

01:24:45.820 I know very, the time I've spent with her has been quite pleasant. And I think she's a good person.

01:24:50.660 But that's irrelevant to whether she'd be a good president. That's irrelevant. You know, I mean.

01:24:53.500 But let me make this point. I think it's really important. We're all making decisions about people

01:24:58.540 based on Twitter, conversations from a friend, something you see on TV, and nobody is showing up

01:25:04.340 to actually look someone in the eye, hear them make their case, ask questions of them. And all I

01:25:10.760 would say, Megan, and I would just invite everybody listening, the next time you're going to condemn a

01:25:16.300 politician, do it after you've had a chance to maybe just go to one event, get a sense of who they

01:25:21.280 really are? Because the media right now is really misportraying your case. We've had her and Biden

01:25:28.760 and Trump to know who they are and whether we like them or not. But yeah, in your case, I know you had

01:25:34.100 New Hampshire is your big place where Biden's not on the ballot because he thumbed the middle finger

01:25:39.220 at them because he didn't want them to be first in the nation. He wanted South Carolina to be.

01:25:43.240 So you, your big play is to do well in North Carolina, where Biden has to be a write-in vote if

01:25:49.280 people want to vote. New Hampshire. And, you know, you say people aren't showing up. I saw the thing.

01:25:56.380 It was sad. People didn't come to your, nobody came to your event the other day. I think they should

01:25:59.960 go to your event. They should hear you. They should listen to you. But how does that bode for your

01:26:03.700 chances when you're having events there and nobody shows? Well, so first of all, let me, it's actually

01:26:08.580 kind of funny because that moment, yeah, there's the picture right there. So. And you made a joke to your

01:26:13.640 credit. You tweeted it, like you made a joke about it, which I thought was very classy of you.

01:26:18.100 Look, I mean, if people could see, first of all, I would love for every American to come along with

01:26:22.640 me on the campaign trail for one day. This, I love America. This is so fun. It is wonderful to meet

01:26:28.640 people, the daily experiences you have here. Some are heartbreaking. Some would make perfect episodes

01:26:34.040 of Veep. And the truth is sometimes you have events where you're shocked by how many people come.

01:26:38.320 And then sometimes you have moments like yesterday. We pulled my government repair truck outside the

01:26:43.000 hotel we're at. I thought I'd serve coffee to these young people going to this college convention.

01:26:48.040 And little did I know that they were all parking in the garage and coming up a different way. So

01:26:51.780 yeah, it looked pathetic and sad and weak. But at the end of the day, what's really interesting, 0.98

01:26:56.360 Megan, is Jake Rosen, the reporter that put up that tweet. I think his post showing me lonely in the

01:27:02.280 back of my truck, staring off into the wilderness. I think that's generated like, I don't know,

01:27:06.580 3 million views or something. One hour later, he did another tweet of me playing bingo with this

01:27:12.520 extraordinary and hysterical group of old ladies here in Manchester. He did another tweet literally

01:27:17.600 one hour later, and I think it has like 4,000 views. So it's either 4 million if you make someone

01:27:22.720 look pathetic or sad or like snarky. Yeah. Only 4,000. If it's actually, it was a really beautiful 0.98

01:27:28.560 experience playing bingo with a whole room full of seniors. So my point is this. No one wants to see

01:27:32.720 that. I take your point. Okay, let's go through a few issues in the time we have left. And I don't

01:27:37.520 have a lot of time. So tick through these with me quickly, if you could. Here's the one. I mean,

01:27:41.580 I have voted Democrat in the past, unlike most of my, you know, colleagues who are more on the right

01:27:46.420 now. I have voted for Dems and Republicans. And so you're kind of luring me in with your attitude

01:27:52.680 and your bipartisanship and your just optimism and so on. However, I'm almost a single issue voter

01:27:58.960 now on the trans thing and children. And I don't know if you saw, I asked the candidates about this

01:28:03.980 at the last presidential debate on the GOP side, but it's a hard no for me on somebody who would

01:28:08.360 allow these surgical procedures to be done on children who are under 18 in terms of chopping

01:28:13.960 off body parts from kids who can't even smoke a cigarette. And I also am very much against puberty

01:28:19.900 blockers straight into cross sex hormones, because even the trans community admits this is causing 1.00

01:28:25.440 in sterility. This is causing sterility, infertility for minors. They can't possibly

01:28:31.780 consent to their own sterilization. And I think you're on the opposite side of me on this. So

01:28:36.100 persuade me why I should still consider you. Well, here's how I feel. And look, I know that most of

01:28:41.820 your listeners, if not all, and you as well, you know, care. We have hearts. We care about human

01:28:46.660 beings. We don't want to destroy lives and we want to be empathetic. I'm the father of two wonderful

01:28:51.800 daughters. My youngest daughter, Pia, is a gay woman. And I have particular empathy for people

01:28:56.760 who have been oppressed or shuttered or kept out or closeted. And I've never walked in the shoes

01:29:02.740 of a queer person, of a trans person, of someone who's facing bipolar disorder, whatever it might be.

01:29:10.300 And they've never walked in my shoes. So generally, I lead with love. And unless it affects another human

01:29:15.900 being, I tend to say I think it's something the government should stay out of. The government should

01:29:20.120 stay out of women's bodies. The government should stay out of my house and out of my bedroom, out 1.00

01:29:24.580 of my bathroom. That's how I see it. But as it relates to your question specifically, I will answer

01:29:28.740 it. You know, I don't believe that children under the age of 18 who cannot buy firearms, who cannot

01:29:36.340 buy beer, who cannot do a lot of things in the United States of America should be able to make such

01:29:42.560 consequential life-changing decisions until a certain age. And I do think maybe that is the common

01:29:49.160 ground, that you can have empathy, you can have love, you can have understanding, and you can have

01:29:54.300 support. But when it comes to making decisions that will really have significant repercussions,

01:29:59.820 I do think a certain age is totally reasonable. What's the age? What's the age? Majority? 18? 0.98

01:30:06.100 Well, I think this is, by the way, I'm glad you asked that question, because at the end of the day,

01:30:09.120 we're using these arbitrary ages that in my, I would argue, are both hypocritical in many cases and

01:30:14.740 incongruent. But we're one of the only countries in the world, by the way, that allows you to drive

01:30:19.120 before you're allowed to drink, right? Wouldn't it be a little bit more reasonable for kids in this

01:30:24.200 country to grow up not thinking alcohol is something you go get bombed on when you turn 21, whereas you

01:30:29.160 actually appreciate its effects, you understand it, you might enjoy a glass of wine with family when

01:30:33.660 you're a teenager, and then you learn how to drive afterwards, like most reasonable countries do?

01:30:38.120 I don't know if the age is 18. Let me just say this. Lower than 18? 18. Look, 18 is usually in 21

01:30:46.520 are the two ages we consider to be threshold ages in this country. You know, I'm not a doctor. I'm not

01:30:51.660 an attorney. I'm not the parent of a trans child. So I don't believe that, frankly, I should be telling

01:30:56.980 you what that age should be. What I'm telling you is that, as president, on issues of great consequence

01:31:02.200 and of great challenge, this is an example of how I would lead, bring together a table of parents,

01:31:07.840 of trans children, of trans adults, of doctors, and hear perspectives on both sides about what

01:31:14.000 makes sense and whether or not the government should get involved. Those are the fundamental

01:31:18.240 questions. All right. Before you appoint that table of people, please, let's talk. Because what's

01:31:24.360 happening right now in the medical community is they've been completely captured by activists,

01:31:29.240 including the American Psychiatric Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, even the

01:31:34.640 endocrinology association has been captured. And you're seeing more and more detransitioners come 1.00

01:31:39.380 out and sue these groups, sue the doctors. They've been so wronged. All right, let me table that one

01:31:43.840 for now. Abortion. You know, there are a lot of Democrats out there who believe in abortion on

01:31:50.280 demand, and they won't set any limits. They won't set a limit for the third trimester even. I think most

01:31:56.580 people can agree if the life of the mother is in jeopardy, that the life that's already here has to 0.86

01:32:01.340 take precedence. But should there be limitations on abortion for any trimester? Let me start with

01:32:08.340 my values. My values are that I believe in freedom and liberty, and I believe that should extend to

01:32:13.380 women's bodies. I don't think government should play a role in telling a woman how she can treat 1.00

01:32:18.640 her body, what she can do with it. And I certainly don't think men should be doing that. Those are my

01:32:22.280 values. So I believe in a woman's right to make that choice with her health care provider

01:32:26.580 and herself. I also know there's a lot of conversation about late-term abortions, and I

01:32:31.420 think you know, Megan, the data is very clear. There are very, very few of them, and if there are,

01:32:35.960 they tend to be very tragic circumstances for either the fetus or for the mother. So to your

01:32:40.640 question, I'll tell you, in New Hampshire about a month ago, I had the most extraordinary conversation

01:32:45.160 in my entire life on this subject because I had a young conservative approach me on the issue of

01:32:50.240 abortion. He said, I'm fiercely pro-life. And I said, I respect you, and I'm fiercely pro-choice,

01:32:55.340 so let's have a conversation. And I said to him, where might we find common ground? And he said,

01:33:00.820 well, what if we were to reduce the incidence of unwanted pregnancies? I said, whoa, what a great

01:33:06.420 way for Democrats and Republicans to start. And then he continued, and he said, I'm going to actually

01:33:11.200 make the conservative case for progressive principles. And he proceeded to say, imagine if

01:33:16.440 American women who are facing this decision knew that their baby would be brought up with shelter,

01:33:22.580 with food, with great education, with healthcare, and security in the neighborhood, an opportunity

01:33:28.520 to make a living and be self-sufficient for his or her life. Don't you think more women might make 1.00

01:33:34.200 the choice to have their babies? And I literally was so dumbfounded because it was the most beautiful

01:33:39.920 case to make where Democrats and Republicans should be focusing our efforts. This notion of being pro-life

01:33:45.480 But just to be clear, just to be clear, just so that people understand. So you would not,

01:33:49.120 because you're not in favor of any government bans, so you would say, in all cases, it's up to the

01:33:54.120 woman. There should not be any bans on it, third trimester included.

01:33:58.300 What I'm saying is this, and I know it's incongruent with some people's perspectives and perhaps yours.

01:34:03.420 I'm saying this very clearly. I'm very concerned about the growing role of government in people's

01:34:08.640 lives, including this one. And by the way, and I want to say, I have respect for people who see

01:34:18.620 this differently. And I would ask that you have respect for me. It is very simple to me. I just

01:34:23.920 don't think, I think on this specific subject, I don't believe that government should be playing

01:34:29.480 a role. I think physicians should be playing a role. All right, wait, I only have two minutes left.

01:34:33.400 So I want to squeeze this last one in. DEI, under a lot of fire right now, especially in the wake of

01:34:38.680 the anti-Semitism we're seeing on campuses. We think it's directly linked to these programs.

01:34:43.320 What do you think? I think it's really simple. DEI is a symptom of a disease that has never been

01:34:50.420 treated. And that disease, for everybody watching and listening right now, is slavery. Our country

01:34:55.960 never, ever repaired the relationship between the United States government and those who are enslaved

01:35:02.680 and their descendants. We have never made a distinct effort to ensure that the long tail of slavery is

01:35:10.180 rectified in the United States. And the best way to do that, and I will propose we do so, is to raise

01:35:15.600 the foundation. I want to do a lot of things, Megan, starting with a notion of what I call the American

01:35:20.600 dream account, which is a thousand dollars vested in every baby's account in the beginning of their

01:35:25.480 life. Wait a minute, but you're endorsing, you're endorsing DEI because of slavery. So you,

01:35:31.000 you're in favor. What I'm endorsing. No, no. What I'm saying is DEI is a symptom of a disease that

01:35:36.220 we've never addressed. I want to address the disease, which is to make amends and to fix the

01:35:41.480 injustices of the past by raising the foundation for the black community and for all Americans.

01:35:47.660 And I'll tell you, let me tell you what I propose. I want to start something called American dream

01:35:52.000 accounts for three and a half billion dollars a year. Every American baby would be afforded a thousand 0.73

01:35:57.200 dollar account that would be invested in the stock market in American companies. Five hundred dollars

01:36:01.720 a year can be added to it over the course of your teenage years. It will become yours if you graduate

01:36:07.200 high school or get your GED. And at six percent interest, five hundred dollars a year. That's

01:36:13.200 every baby, irrespective of race, everybody, everybody. And then secondly, if you want to afford

01:36:18.320 one year of your life to serve our country, AmeriCorps, Peace Corps, U.S. military, we'll put another

01:36:23.880 ten thousand dollars in your account. So you have thirty thousand dollars to start a life, own a

01:36:28.360 home, begin a business, use for your expenses. I got 40 seconds until the computer is going to cut

01:36:33.160 us off. But I just. Well, there you have it. That's the beginning of a problem. Are you in favor of these

01:36:36.640 DEI programs in K through 12 and college campuses? I think I think training and preparing young kids

01:36:43.620 for the world in front of them, which is a very diverse one, is really important. Do I think that

01:36:48.160 the systems that are being employed right now in the programs and some of the people are effective

01:36:52.180 in the right ones? No. And that's absolute. So I think, again, two things. You know what? Let's wrap

01:36:56.540 this up with my last perspective. Two things can be true at once. We need to prepare kids better for

01:37:01.960 their futures. And that means diversity understanding. But are the way is the way we're doing it right

01:37:06.400 now, effective and correct? No, I think it's actually really bad. I want to fix it. I want to fix it.

01:37:11.320 Thank you for being here. We got to run. I appreciate it. Dean Phillips, to be continued. All the best to you.

01:37:16.260 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - January 10, 2024

Hunter Biden's Shock Capitol Hill Trip, and if President Biden Can Get Primaried, with Dean Phillips, Dave Aronberg, and Mike Davis ｜ Ep. 699

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