The Megyn Kelly Show - Hysteria Over Abortion Next Steps, and Personal Liberty, with Gov. Kristi Noem and Jim Geraghty

00:00:00.500 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.540 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.200 The left in America is in full meltdown following the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade,

00:00:21.760 giving power back to the states to make their own decisions on it, just like they did for 185 years prior to Roe.

00:00:29.100 So, one of the states at the heart of the story is South Dakota.

00:00:32.760 When that decision came down, reversing Roe and Casey, almost all abortions became illegal in South Dakota,

00:00:38.960 as they did in about a total of 13 states, and the number will climb because there are trigger provisions saying in many, many other states

00:00:46.920 that abortion will be outlawed there as well within 30 days or so.

00:00:52.880 The governor of South Dakota, Kristi Noem, is unapologetically pro-life.

00:00:57.080 She has repeatedly defended that position, and she is also widely considered a potential presidential candidate for 2024.

00:01:05.780 And she is our guest today.

00:01:11.740 Governor Noem, great to have you here.

00:01:14.100 Congrats on your new book out today, Not My First Rodeo, Lessons from the Heartland.

00:01:19.920 Excited for you, and it's nice to meet you.

00:01:21.820 Nice to meet you too, Megyn.

00:01:22.860 Thank you so much for inviting me to be on with you today.

00:01:25.120 I appreciate it.

00:01:26.480 My pleasure.

00:01:27.220 I think people who know you and like you are going to love the book, and I think people who are just wanting to know you better really will,

00:01:33.940 because you're very open to the book about your hardships, your challenges, who you were as a person and a young woman before you ever thought about running for office.

00:01:43.100 I have to tell you, my first takeaway when I read it was, I mean, I'm sure you've heard this, but it reminds me a little bit of like Yellowstone.

00:01:49.540 The show Yellowstone is kind of how you grew up.

00:01:51.680 Yeah, people have said that before.

00:01:54.100 They've said, is that governor in Yellowstone modeled after you?

00:01:56.500 And I'm like, no, I'm pretty sure it's not.

00:01:58.180 But it does.

00:01:59.160 It was amazing to me, the first few times I watched that show, how much of it felt like life in South Dakota.

00:02:04.500 I mean, it really is.

00:02:05.380 Good people work hard.

00:02:07.180 Some of the same challenges, but not quite as much killing and probably not quite that much sex that they were having the first season.

00:02:15.060 So I was going to say it was a it's a good we enjoy it.

00:02:19.360 I assume your family wasn't running around killing everybody.

00:02:21.980 And yeah, this was a lot.

00:02:24.160 Yeah, it was a lot.

00:02:24.860 Definitely.

00:02:26.600 All right.

00:02:27.120 Well, we'll get in all that in a minute.

00:02:28.280 But let's start with the news of the day before we go to your backstory and your book and so on.

00:02:32.340 And that's, of course, what's happening in reaction to Roe versus Wade.

00:02:35.840 Now, the left has taken this to so many catastrophic places.

00:02:40.220 I mean, that you would really think that it's been outlawed in all 50 states under all circumstances.

00:02:45.880 That's not the case.

00:02:47.200 But as I said in the intro, you are unapologetically, unapologetically pro-life and have had a provision in South Dakota saying as soon as they overturn Roe and Casey in your state,

00:02:57.640 abortion will be banned in all cases except when necessary to save the life of the mother.

00:03:02.340 So what say you to those who are now criticizing that as too narrow?

00:03:07.980 What about rape and incest and too cold to the plight of, let's say, a young girl who finds herself the victim of incest and sadly pregnant thereafter?

00:03:20.400 Well, the trigger law in South Dakota was passed back in 2005, so it was quite a number of years ago.

00:03:25.440 And what it said was that if Roe was ever overturned at the federal level, that in the state of South Dakota, all abortions would be illegal except to save the life of the mother.

00:03:35.340 And so when that decision came down, that was immediately the law of the land in our state.

00:03:40.340 And, you know, I think that what is important about that law is that it definitely does not prosecute mothers or women or punish them.

00:03:48.700 It goes after doctors who knowingly break the law.

00:03:51.820 So I'm sure there will be continued debate over this.

00:03:55.260 You know, rape and incest is something that a lot of people are talking about.

00:03:58.200 And I can't even imagine, you know, the tragic situation so many women go through in those situations.

00:04:04.860 It's just horrific.

00:04:06.140 For me personally, I've just, I know that science of what happens at conception and technology has shown us so much more the last 10 or 15 years of what happens to babies in the womb and these tragedies.

00:04:19.540 I just believe the best option is to follow it up with another tragedy.

00:04:23.320 And so, you know, I launched a website that talked about life.

00:04:28.880 It was life.sd.gov that shows women and families that are in a crisis or in an unplanned pregnancy, all the resources that are available to come alongside them in that situation.

00:04:39.780 Financially, medical help, even connecting them with adoptive families should they choose that route with their babies.

00:04:46.060 But knowing that they're not alone is incredibly powerful when they get into a very, very difficult situation like that.

00:04:51.500 And I think a lot of mental health counseling and those individuals who walk alongside them and support them in those situations is incredibly important as well.

00:05:01.300 But realistically, how many women in South Carolina will be affected by this?

00:05:05.680 Because my my impression is amongst South Dakota, my impression is that in most of the states where we're going to see these bans kick in, there was like one abortion clinic anyway.

00:05:17.460 Abortion wasn't very popular and it wasn't all that readily available and there was already a political will to eliminate it, which is why the numbers were so low.

00:05:27.160 So, I mean, I just I'm not sure I'm buying the left's narrative that just, you know, millions of women now won't be able to get abortions with it where they could have before this decision.

00:05:35.620 What's it like in your state?

00:05:36.600 Yeah, so we had one Planned Parenthood facility in the state of South Dakota that was performing abortions and it was very few.

00:05:44.100 I mean, I think it was less than 12 or a year.

00:05:47.860 I mean, very and they even brought a doctor in from out of state to perform those abortions.

00:05:52.140 You know, one is too many in my book, but they actually stopped doing abortions about six weeks ago, I think, in the state of South Dakota.

00:05:59.540 And in anticipation of this decision, which we celebrated, we're glad that our state stands for life.

00:06:06.740 I think it's going to be incredibly important, though, even in states like South Dakota, where policymakers and legislators and the governor are pro-life, that we continue to talk to the people.

00:06:16.320 Because we've had ballot initiatives before in our state to ban abortion and they have not passed.

00:06:21.780 And I think a lot of times the fear tactics and the scare tactics that the left uses, they're effective.

00:06:27.900 I mean, we've watched the last several years.

00:06:30.180 The left and the media use fear to control people.

00:06:33.460 And much of what I'm hearing these extremists on the pro-abortion side just isn't the truth.

00:06:39.300 It isn't the truth that women lost health care.

00:06:42.320 What it did is the Supreme Court decision put this power back to the states where it should be.

00:06:46.760 It fixed a wrong that happened almost 50 years ago.

00:06:49.340 And now those decisions will be made closer to the people.

00:06:52.700 That's the debate that we want to continue to have in South Dakota.

00:06:55.220 And I think every state should start evaluating.

00:06:57.680 Well, what's upsetting about the whole debate is that they won't let pro-life advocates, true pro-life advocates like we had Lila Rose on the program yesterday who runs live action.

00:07:06.600 You know, one of the best and biggest pro-life groups there is.

00:07:10.700 She can't get on CNN.

00:07:12.020 They don't want to put her on.

00:07:13.780 They only want pro-choice advocates on and therefore young women really are led to believe that if they have an unplanned pregnancy, there's really only one realistic option.

00:07:23.160 And that if they choose to have the baby and keep the baby or have the baby and want to give the baby up, it's going to be incredibly taxing and ruinous to their lives.

00:07:32.960 Yeah, that's exactly it.

00:07:34.980 And I did several national interviews on other networks the last couple of days.

00:07:39.060 And it was interesting, the questions that I got asked.

00:07:41.240 It was all about denying women health care.

00:07:43.820 If I no longer supported IVF, if I no longer supported contraception, all of those types of questions that are extremist views.

00:07:50.820 Of course, no mention of the fact that many on the left and in the Democrat Party want abortion on demand and that some parts of this country have embraced even killing babies after birth.

00:08:00.800 And what is the difference here in how doctors look at these babies in the womb?

00:08:05.480 If you talk to a doctor and they're doing surgery or medical procedures on babies in the womb, they are calling those babies patients.

00:08:12.100 They have patients' rights throughout those procedures.

00:08:15.400 So how do you give that individual, that baby in a womb, patients' rights and treat them as a patient and then not call them a human being?

00:08:23.040 You know, that's the hypocrisy that we're running into in this country and the conversation that needs to open the eyes of many of the people that are out there in the public.

00:08:30.720 Right. Of course, that's exactly right.

00:08:32.440 And then when those same anchors get a pro-choice governor on their shows, they don't ask them equally tough questions from the other side.

00:08:41.140 Right. The media is very openly pro-choice and feels no obligation to even pretend otherwise.

00:08:46.680 Yeah, I did a couple of Sunday morning shows and it was interesting.

00:08:50.260 I got Martha interrupted me over and over again.

00:08:52.700 I actually had to say, listen, I am answering your questions.

00:08:55.980 And then I chatted with Margaret after that, too.

00:08:58.140 But what was interesting, they're both very confrontational, already had their minds made up.

00:09:02.980 And then the next individuals that came on to be interviewed after me is completely different conversation.

00:09:08.060 They were normal human beings to them.

00:09:09.760 So the antagonistic, unfair way that the media approaches this issue is is designed to divide people and create more confusion.

00:09:19.560 And I think that's incredibly unfortunate because that's not their job.

00:09:22.780 Their job is to ask questions. I'll answer them.

00:09:26.100 To me, it's actually kind of interesting because you would think that if you're going to be if you're going to work yourself up into a real lather, like an anger over this issue, it would be on the pro-life side.

00:09:35.240 It would be on behalf of the babies.

00:09:38.740 You know, like I understand that a woman who does not want to carry a baby to term is in a very difficult position and is going to undergo considerable hardship.

00:09:47.040 I get that. Never mind if she then keeps the baby.

00:09:50.700 Right. But on the other side, we have real interests, too.

00:09:55.620 And the later you get in the pregnancy, the more undeniable they become.

00:09:59.500 And I just I don't even hear it being discussed.

00:10:01.740 It's like the left is so sure that they're on the side of morality on this without paying one minute's notice to the fact that it no matter where you stand on this, abortion does stop at best for the other side of a potential life at best.

00:10:18.420 Right. And the reality is it stops like life in process.

00:10:22.340 Well, and it's interesting because this is the party and the extremists that embrace and preach equality, you know, all access to everything and treat everybody the same.

00:10:32.160 And then they obviously don't. And it's only when it's convenient.

00:10:36.240 And that's what I think is a little bit scary about our society today is it's an instant gratification society.

00:10:42.660 It's a it's a person that doesn't it's a willing to even be inconvenienced by something.

00:10:48.820 And this is much bigger issue than that. But that's what I'm concerned about is the lack of value for a life.

00:10:54.080 It's evident when you see the violence on our streets, it's evident when you see it, you know, out there every day and day to day life.

00:11:01.660 But when you wrap your arms around killing a baby and embrace it, and then like the governor of New York did here by declaring that her state was going to be known as the place to come to get an abortion.

00:11:14.320 Boy, that's a legacy that I I never want South Dakota to ever have.

00:11:18.220 Right. Well, it's the same group that wasn't much for personal or bodily autonomy during covid and now.

00:11:26.040 Right. And then they cared so much about the value of one life during that.

00:11:31.120 But now the shoes on the other foot. What about the one life in the womb?

00:11:34.100 And what about right like they're not now they're the message has flipped entirely.

00:11:39.160 Yeah. And it was totally OK then for the government to mandate that you get a vaccine.

00:11:42.740 And it wasn't your body when it was dealing with getting the vaccine.

00:11:45.840 But now it is your body when it comes to even, you know, having another life live with inside you and and be born.

00:11:52.360 So that's that's the part that I hope people's eyes are open.

00:11:55.640 And I do think people are paying attention now more so than they did two or three years ago.

00:12:00.060 You know, covid did that for our country.

00:12:01.620 A lot of folks never engaged in government or politics suddenly lost their business or they lost their children's education because of some leader in some position that took away their freedom.

00:12:12.320 So there are people paying attention that I hope have a new intelligent conversation about some of these policies and recognize the hypocrisy that the left is embracing.

00:12:21.960 Well, and the truth is that abortions have gone way down in the country.

00:12:25.040 They're still high. They're still high.

00:12:26.680 But they've gone way down in this country versus where they were in the late 70s and the early 80s, in large part because of more information coming out and things like, you know, sonograms and ultrasounds where you can actually see what's inside of you and the access to birth control, which is just, you know, ubiquitous now.

00:12:44.400 It's not hard to get birth control. And so there are things women and men can do to prevent themselves from getting in this kind of a situation.

00:12:51.740 And it's readily available. And it's actually at the point now where you can, you know, you can get something in your arm.

00:12:57.100 You don't even have to think about it for months on end.

00:13:00.780 That's right. And I think that it's very important that we who are pro-life truly be pro-life and stand and walk alongside that mother and answer their questions.

00:13:10.680 So there's less fear in what will happen to me the next nine, 10 months as I carry this baby and what will happen if I decide to keep my baby, that we're there to answer those questions and make sure that they're not going to be alone.

00:13:23.360 Well, I mean, it's hard, right? As the state, there's only so much you can do.

00:13:27.000 It's like, I think it's great that you have the website and I saw it and you're directing people to a lot of private services that will step in.

00:13:34.160 And this is how it always was, right? Your church will help you. Your community group will help you.

00:13:38.360 Is it, there's not that because people are like, well, what, what are you going to do? I've seen in some of your earlier, what are you, you know, the state?

00:13:44.340 Well, I mean, there's not that much the state itself can do, but what are your thoughts on it?

00:13:51.280 Well, I talk to people, you know, quite often, be careful what you ask the government to do for you.

00:13:56.320 And every problem, the government's not the answer. There may be, there's a role here.

00:14:01.200 And I found that the last several years as governor, that I have an opportunity to connect people in a way that I maybe didn't before, make people aware of resources, talk to an issue.

00:14:11.160 And there's so many nonprofits, there's so many churches that want to be there.

00:14:15.380 It's just getting them connected that we need to.

00:14:17.700 There's already several programs out there that come through family services or child protective services,

00:14:22.920 or even within the criminal justice system where we can make those connections.

00:14:27.340 It's not necessarily starting a new program, but it's making sure that those connections are made.

00:14:32.480 So people have the answers when they need them.

00:14:34.380 Oh, well, this reminds me of something I wanted to ask you, because that now the new buzz is what about establishing abortion clinics on federal land, like federal forests or even.

00:14:46.360 And I know you've got, I think, nine tribes, you say in your book in South Dakota or Native American land.

00:14:52.160 And later in the program, we're going to be joined by Jim Garrity of National Review, who points out they forgot to ask the Native American tribes whether that would be OK with them to have abortion clinics on Native American land with non-Native Americans filing and filing out.

00:15:08.520 And I mean, land is something that's been big, a big, big part of your life, of your family business.

00:15:12.340 So what do you make of this push now by the far left to have Joe Biden declare certain federal forests and so on are now going to be open ground for federal abortion clinics in states that have bans on abortion?

00:15:26.780 Well, when it comes to federal lands, a lot of that is going to be funding for those types of facilities on federal lands.

00:15:32.700 And that's going to be up to Congress to make sure that they stop something like that.

00:15:36.020 Although I have some enforcement jurisdiction and things like that on BLM land, which is, you know, Bureau of Land Management or Forest Service land, our tribes are a very different story.

00:15:46.780 Our tribes are sovereign nations.

00:15:48.880 I have no jurisdiction on tribal lands, on reservations.

00:15:52.700 So when it comes to law and order, when it comes to programs, when it comes to my interaction as a governor with a tribe, it's a government to government relationship.

00:16:01.580 And I honor their sovereignty, which means they could set up these abortion clinics.

00:16:07.200 There's not a whole lot that I could do as governor about that.

00:16:10.560 Hmm. I mean, I wonder whether there's any appetite for that in the even this U.S. Congress.

00:16:16.640 Right. Because we've got the Hyde Amendment.

00:16:18.000 They're not allowed to use taxpayer dollars to fund abortion.

00:16:20.800 So how are they going to fund these clinics?

00:16:22.860 I guess, you know, they're just going to have liberal activists who pay all the money to have these things pop up.

00:16:28.080 And if we're doing it in federal forests, who's going to be responsible for getting the people in and getting the people out?

00:16:33.560 Like the desperation here is palpable.

00:16:37.200 But I also think there's a political manipulation here because people want to look like they're doing something.

00:16:43.540 Yeah, they definitely do.

00:16:44.800 It's an activism that's out there.

00:16:46.300 But what I would say is, you know, hopefully in a few months we have a new Congress that starts having a more informed debate on what this issue is and really about what real health care for women is.

00:16:59.420 Hmm. So you were I should remind the audience because you were in the state legislature in South Dakota.

00:17:05.440 Then you went on to be a U.S. congressperson representing your state at the national level and then ran for governor and won.

00:17:13.100 And that's the post you're in now. So you do know how Washington works.

00:17:16.200 And you spent probably in your estimation too long inside the beltway.

00:17:21.400 I think it was six years. Was it six years?

00:17:23.900 Eight. I know.

00:17:25.120 Eight. OK. Eight years.

00:17:26.380 Yeah. So you understand how it worked and understanding that.

00:17:32.280 How are you seeing these hysterical reactions now to this decision?

00:17:37.080 Because to me, it smacks of politics and not necessarily a genuinely held belief.

00:17:42.320 I'm sure AOC really is pro choice.

00:17:46.360 But does she there is zero chance of anybody impeaching any Supreme Court justice over this.

00:17:53.220 But that's what she keeps saying over and over again.

00:17:56.380 Yeah, it's interesting. That's one of the things I hated the most about Washington, D.C.

00:18:00.060 It was a lot of talk and very little action.

00:18:01.960 In fact, people ask me all the time why D.C. is so broken.

00:18:05.600 And I would say it's because there's no rules.

00:18:07.960 There's literally in the House of Representatives a rules committee where they go and make up a new rule for how they want to vote on the House floor that day.

00:18:16.340 And I could have a bill in Washington and it may never get a hearing for 20 years.

00:18:21.160 I could file the same bill, but it will never get a hearing unless a chairman decides they want to talk about that subject.

00:18:26.620 And then if a bill passes a hearing, it may never even go to the House floor for a vote.

00:18:30.940 The only way something gets voted on is if the speaker and the majority leader decide that that's what they want to do.

00:18:36.560 The Senate can ignore the House.

00:18:38.980 And that breakdown of basic rules to follow a legislative process does not facilitate open debate.

00:18:46.620 It allows people like AOC to make up crap and never be held accountable for what she says.

00:18:52.880 And it creates an emotion in the American public and in her constituents that, again, get her reelected.

00:18:58.520 It's completely irresponsible.

00:19:00.520 It's not any way to run a government or a country.

00:19:03.440 And that's why I was so happy to get back to South Dakota and really looked at what I was doing in Washington.

00:19:10.220 I had the chance to work on tax reform, had the chance to work on National Defense Authorization Act, did a lot of good work.

00:19:16.620 But was excited to come home and get the chance to be a CEO, to have an agenda, to get up every single day and make decisions that impacted our state, and then to continue to fight for and to defend our way of life.

00:19:29.480 I hope that's Tulsi Gabbard's future, too.

00:19:31.680 She was on the program last year and just talked about hating her time in D.C. and how she was this darling of the Democrats until they realized she's an independent thinker and then kind of got ousted by Nancy Pelosi from the in crowd.

00:19:47.140 And really, she's not bitter, but she got it.

00:19:49.620 She saw the message and feels, I think, similarly to the way you do now.

00:19:54.040 Yeah, Tulsi is a good friend of mine.

00:19:55.400 In fact, when we were in Congress, we worked out in the mornings together.

00:20:00.920 And she's a wonderful person.

00:20:02.020 I was just texting with her a day or two ago about potentially getting together and maybe doing some messaging together, just common sense.

00:20:09.940 You know, here are people with very different backgrounds, but we're both women that care about this country and recognize that the extremes are not getting us anywhere.

00:20:18.200 We need to go to really securing our future and what can we do to cooperate on some of these policies and really weigh in so that people sit up and pay attention and listen and become much more educated.

00:20:29.500 If there's anything I've learned in public policy is that I couldn't just make decisions, that you have to go and explain why you made the decision that you made.

00:20:38.480 During COVID, I gave whole press conferences on just the authority I had as governor and the authority I did not have.

00:20:44.880 I gave a whole press conference on just the Constitution and what it meant and what it says governors should be doing, what the federal government should be doing.

00:20:52.600 So the people of South Dakota really understood what I was doing and why I was doing it.

00:20:58.020 I just don't think we do enough of that to really have a population in this country that that understands really what the role of government should be in their life.

00:21:05.600 I mean, the thought of you and Tulsi Gabbard on the same ticket together someday is too much to bear.

00:21:13.000 That would be so amazing.

00:21:15.060 It would be a the best looking ticket ever.

00:21:17.240 And then and just the brainpower there, because obviously you're considerably farther to the right than Tulsi is.

00:21:22.400 But she's just a reasonable person and she hasn't abandoned all of her democratic principles, but she's willing to compromise and willing to criticize her own side.

00:21:31.020 Right. And it would be exciting to see that happen in any shape.

00:21:35.080 Well, and I think both of us have some have some scar tissue.

00:21:39.300 You know, I've I have I've been beat up by the left for many years, but I've also been beat up by the right.

00:21:45.140 And they can be just as vicious as anybody else.

00:21:47.820 And they can use whatever talking point they want to to attack someone to try to take out their competition.

00:21:53.840 I get it. It's politics, but it also makes you stronger.

00:21:58.480 And I think Tulsi and I both know that very well.

00:22:01.020 OK, I'm not going to get into that, but I do know what you're talking about.

00:22:05.100 And just for the audience, I think this is the reference without naming names.

00:22:08.300 There was this absurd rumor about you allegedly having an affair with the Trump staffer years ago.

00:22:13.360 A couple came out within the past year or two.

00:22:15.840 And it was just out of nowhere. But that was from the right.

00:22:18.400 And it was incredible because you're sitting governor.

00:22:21.460 You've had a long marriage. You married Brian in like right after.

00:22:24.900 Oh, yeah. 30 years ago. And you're I think you're a year younger than I am.

00:22:28.300 I'm 51. You're 50.

00:22:30.020 So you've been together with the same guy all this time.

00:22:32.120 You have three wonderful children like out of the blue.

00:22:35.380 And this is, of course, they do do this.

00:22:37.340 I'm sorry to get on my female soapbox, but they whenever there's a powerful woman, you can take it to the bank.

00:22:42.660 There's going to be an attack on her. And they say you're either it's either nuts or sluts.

00:22:46.620 You're crazy or you're a slut.

00:22:49.140 And they weren't able to say you were crazy.

00:22:50.680 So they decided to go the other route.

00:22:53.100 Yeah, absolutely.

00:22:54.320 And I think they they say the crazy, too.

00:22:57.000 You know, they had the entire fight over girls sports that they came after me on as well.

00:23:01.740 Yeah. Right.

00:23:02.780 And now they've just been a constant attack of FOIA requests in our state, creating scandals out of nothing that don't even exist.

00:23:09.780 So, listen, this is war and they will they've gone after my children.

00:23:14.140 They attacked my the first year and a half that I was a governor.

00:23:16.780 They went after my daughter.

00:23:18.660 And then when they couldn't destroy her, they went after my older daughter and caused her to lose her entire business over something that was completely false accusations.

00:23:27.340 But it started enough controversy that it affected her business and she had to completely change careers.

00:23:34.020 So, of course, they would try to destroy me, then my children.

00:23:37.160 And now they've gone after my husband and myself.

00:23:39.580 And it's it's it's difficult.

00:23:41.660 I'd say it's probably hardest on the family when someone's serving in this job.

00:23:44.620 But I think it also makes you stronger.

00:23:46.500 It's something that, you know, we we try to get through it and not I we honestly don't even read the press that much anymore.

00:23:55.100 I have my staff tell me what I need to know, but stay off the social media comments and a lot of those articles because just so much of it, I don't even recognize this reality.

00:24:05.100 Well, you're grounded.

00:24:06.080 I mean, that's what comes from growing up in South Dakota and on a ranch, a farm, having the parents that you had.

00:24:11.880 Not everybody's that way.

00:24:13.160 And one of the interesting things in your book is how you talk about how you could see the sort of the the light corrupting people in Congress, like the need to be interesting to reporters or like the confusion that the press is interested in you.

00:24:31.500 Is about you. Right. As opposed to, like, what's important here is my relationship with my constituents, not my relationship with the reporter from The Washington Post.

00:24:41.440 And just how it reminded me of forgive me for quoting Michael Avenatti.

00:24:46.900 But when he was like he was either being sentenced or something, he was like, I got too close to the sun.

00:24:53.940 And I know it made me laugh, but it's kind of what you're talking about.

00:24:57.320 Yeah, I've heard that a couple of times about a few members of Congress, too.

00:25:00.960 Well, he flew too close to the sun.

00:25:02.960 But no, it's true. And I think I was very grateful.

00:25:05.380 You know, my husband and I did something when I got elected to Congress because it was, you know, when I ran for Congress, it was because people kept asking me to.

00:25:13.300 And it wasn't something we really desired to do for two years.

00:25:16.560 People kept trying to recruit us.

00:25:18.100 And finally, I said to my husband, maybe we just run.

00:25:20.540 And if we lose, they'll leave us alone.

00:25:22.440 And and got into this race that was one of the top five races in the nation in 2010.

00:25:28.080 It was very difficult.

00:25:29.660 And it was against a blue dog Democrat that had a 70 percent approval rating.

00:25:34.220 I mean, it was rough.

00:25:35.140 But, you know, when we got there and ended up, I I got one and ended up in D.C.

00:25:40.000 We said, you know, let's come up with some rules, you know, because we had little kids and I was going to be gone a lot.

00:25:44.940 And it was that when I was home, we were all going to be together.

00:25:48.720 The kids were not going to be going to sleepovers.

00:25:51.700 They weren't going to be going off and doing different things on weekends.

00:25:54.380 Our family had to be together.

00:25:56.500 And the one, you know, exchange that we had with the kids was that you could bring as many friends with us as you wanted to.

00:26:03.360 So often I was showing up at Chamber of Commerce dinners or meetings with seven, eight kids with me.

00:26:10.360 And I was a little bit of a circus, but, you know, doing that and having some of those groundings and family, I think, really helped build a stronger family for us so that these firestorms we've seen since COVID that have landed on our family, you know, makes us get through those a little bit better and understand really what this political world is about.

00:26:29.820 Was that the race against the blue dog Democrat, the woman who went to Georgetown Law?

00:26:34.660 Yep, absolutely.

00:26:35.620 Yeah, it was.

00:26:36.700 I love that piece of your story because you read about how, like, I can't remember where you went to college.

00:26:41.300 Forgive me, but it wasn't exactly like Ivy League.

00:26:43.580 I can say that because I went to Syracuse.

00:26:45.020 Same.

00:26:45.480 Yeah, it all wound up fine in the end.

00:26:47.600 But you, you know, you had that bit of insecurity, like, oh, God, you know, she's got this great pedigree and mine maybe doesn't look the same.

00:26:54.480 But you had a different pedigree that mattered more that worked better.

00:26:58.380 Yeah, I felt very outmatched in that race.

00:27:00.420 You know, this was a lawyer who was like a national debate champion, went to Georgetown Law, was very accomplished, very well-spoken and polished.

00:27:08.900 I was a farmer.

00:27:09.820 I was a farmer who had had to drop out of college when my dad was killed, took over our businesses.

00:27:14.660 In fact, while during that campaign, I was already taking classes to get my degree again, 15 years later, I finished my degree from South Dakota State University the first year I was in Congress.

00:27:27.660 So, you know, it was a very delayed process.

00:27:31.560 But and I felt like I was did not have the same pedigree, but continued to talk about what mattered to the people of South Dakota.

00:27:39.560 And they gave me a chance.

00:27:41.740 It worked.

00:27:42.760 I mean, I find that inspirational and I want people to remember that because in today's day and age, even with our university system as messed up as it is and corruptive on, you know, politics as it is, you can succeed very well in life.

00:27:57.780 You can do better than the people who are graduating from Harvard and Yale if you stay in touch with the right values, the right people and you work hard.

00:28:06.240 And I feel like you're an example of that.

00:28:07.680 I say this almost every day to somebody.

00:28:10.120 I say, listen, the world will tell you that your education is the most important thing in the world, that you're, you're, you know, but for me, your education is important.

00:28:19.580 Your experience is important.

00:28:20.660 But what moves the world is relationships.

00:28:24.080 It is, it is relationships.

00:28:25.940 The person that you might meet at that meeting you go to might end up being your next business partner.

00:28:31.300 The person that may be your professor at that university could be your mentor that ends up changing your life forever, being your recommendation, you know, for that next big job that you want.

00:28:44.320 So I tell everybody, especially those that are in high school, college and young starting their careers, that, that the most important thing is relationships.

00:28:52.580 So slow down, take the time to talk to people that you walk by every day or that you're sitting next to in a meeting or, or some committee that you're serving on.

00:29:00.060 Because those could be the people that really help you make the connections that develop your career or give you a better quality of life.

00:29:06.860 That, I love hearing that because having spent much of my adult life in Manhattan, it's like you spend the time speaking to the person who's next to you on the subway or in the restaurant.

00:29:15.900 And you're, you're going to get a very different look than you probably get in South Dakota.

00:29:19.680 That's true.

00:29:20.400 That's very true.

00:29:21.280 Point well taken though.

00:29:22.300 Very different.

00:29:23.260 All right.

00:29:23.560 There's so much more to go over.

00:29:24.620 Governor Noem has been a big spokesperson for freedoms when it comes to guns, when it comes to religious liberty and the Supreme Court just issued two big decisions on both of those things.

00:29:34.580 So we'll talk to her about that.

00:29:36.220 So much more to go over with her.

00:29:37.560 Stay with us.

00:29:43.360 Governor Noem has a new book out today called Not My First Rodeo, Lessons from the Heartland.

00:29:49.540 I love the title.

00:29:50.860 This is a personal story, but my assistant, Abby, who's been with me for over 12 years now, one time she had to deal with this photographer.

00:29:59.540 I don't remember if it was like, it's one of those big women's magazines.

00:30:02.740 And they, they wanted me to get my picture taken by this guy, this French photographer.

00:30:07.120 So we did.

00:30:08.460 And Abby had to deal with him on the pictures.

00:30:11.140 And, oh, I know what it was.

00:30:12.460 We wanted to use one of the pictures like on Twitter.

00:30:15.700 And so she said, she said, she's younger.

00:30:18.740 She's a lot younger.

00:30:19.640 She's only 35 now.

00:30:21.260 Anyway, she sent him a note saying something like, could we use the picture on Twitter?

00:30:26.540 You know, what can we do to make that happen?

00:30:28.600 And he wrote her back, this French guy.

00:30:30.540 And he wrote, dear, my first rodeo.

00:30:35.540 No, you may not use the picture.

00:30:38.300 Oh, my goodness.

00:30:41.920 We've been laughing about it ever since, but I get the reference and I love it.

00:30:46.060 Oh, awesome.

00:30:47.100 I love it.

00:30:47.860 Well, you know, it's interesting when you write a book, you know, it's so long ago that you start the process.

00:30:52.660 And for a long time, the book didn't have a title and you kind of struggle with that.

00:30:56.640 But this, this title fit not my first rodeo, because I think a lot of people first heard my name during COVID.

00:31:02.360 You know, that's when Rachel Maddow and Elizabeth Warren and were attacking me night after night on the national news for the decisions that I was making in South Dakota, calling me reckless, irresponsible, dangerous.

00:31:16.160 So, but, you know, most people think, well, that's she's, you know, she's new.

00:31:20.340 We've never heard of her before.

00:31:21.480 Who is this governor?

00:31:22.540 She, she's not very tough.

00:31:23.840 She's not strong.

00:31:25.600 But, you know, this isn't my first rodeo.

00:31:28.000 I think that when people learn a little bit about my backstory, the things that I've done, the challenges we've faced and how we've gotten through them, I think they'll realize that, that my background's very unique.

00:31:38.320 It's different.

00:31:39.280 But I also think it prepared me pretty well to go through something like we've seen in the challenges since I've been governor.

00:31:46.300 You were doing things very differently during COVID.

00:31:49.160 And I mean, I was loving it as somebody who is much more of a hard libertarian on the COVID policies.

00:31:55.280 And I mean, as soon as April, you know, the whole thing went down in March, you had opened South Dakota back up and really weren't requiring any mandates on South Dakotans.

00:32:06.340 And you write in the book that this was a, this was a matter of what you call first principles.

00:32:11.840 This wasn't sort of coming to a crisis and shooting from the hip.

00:32:15.100 You kind of went back to just your overall philosophy of what it means to govern.

00:32:19.560 Explain that.

00:32:20.260 Well, it came down to the fact that, you know, I wanted to do my job, but not more than what my job was.

00:32:28.560 So, you know, I think I did what every other governor did.

00:32:31.600 We all studied the virus.

00:32:32.700 We listened to what was happening when it was developing overseas, when it came to the states and started to hit other states.

00:32:38.720 We all looked at the data and the numbers, talked to our health officials.

00:32:42.000 I just think I took it a step further.

00:32:43.540 I spent a lot of time with my general counsel and I spent a lot of time, you know, with constitutional attorneys trying to figure out what really was my job as governor, what authority I had, but then also what authority I didn't have.

00:32:55.760 I just believe that when you have a leader overstep that authority in a time of crisis, that's when you break the country.

00:33:02.100 And so South Dakota was the only state that never once closed a single business.

00:33:08.200 I didn't even define what an essential business was because I don't believe the government has the authority to tell you your business isn't essential.

00:33:15.800 We didn't mandate anything.

00:33:17.640 I just believed that if I stood up in front of my people and told them I was going to trust them and give them all the information that I had, I would let them use personal responsibility to make the best decisions for their families and their businesses.

00:33:29.940 And overwhelmingly, people got it and they did it and they appreciated it.

00:33:34.720 We did incredible things in South Dakota that, you know, that still any other state, you know, just didn't seem or trust their people enough to do.

00:33:43.820 So even in states that today you hear Republicans and conservatives bragging about in Florida and Texas and how free they are, well, they closed beaches.

00:33:53.300 They closed businesses.

00:33:54.160 South Dakota never did any of that because we truly believed we just the government doesn't have that kind of authority in your life.

00:34:01.980 So do you was somebody like Ron DeSantis more of a covid hawk than you?

00:34:07.540 I wouldn't say a covid hawk.

00:34:09.280 I would just say we made different decisions, very different decisions.

00:34:12.160 And and I think that, you know, what we did in South Dakota, you know, I had one governor from a different state and I came to help him in his reelection this year and he did a fundraiser with a couple of hundred people in his home state.

00:34:26.080 And he stood up in front of that whole crowd and he said, the reason I asked Christy to come here is because when she was the only one who refused to close her state down, he said it gave all of us as Republican governors cover.

00:34:38.440 It gave us cover because she was the crazy one and we all could let up on our mandates that we could all say, oh, well, Christy is doing it.

00:34:46.520 Somebody else is doing it so we can do this now, too.

00:34:50.280 And that was the most open and honest I'd ever heard another governor say because it's a very lonely job.

00:34:56.860 Every governor went through challenges.

00:34:58.520 You know, I had fantastic health officials.

00:35:01.120 We talked all the time.

00:35:02.140 I spent a lot of time managing other leaders in my state and talking to them.

00:35:05.600 I mean, it took a lot.

00:35:07.000 So every governor had a different situation.

00:35:08.800 But I appreciated the fact that he was so honest that he just said, when you did that, when you stood there and refused, it gave us cover to start making the same decisions.

00:35:18.140 And he said that made all the difference in the world.

00:35:20.840 Well, you didn't get drunk on power either.

00:35:22.960 Didn't you quickly give up your emergency powers?

00:35:25.660 I mean, you weren't reveling in your newfound king or queendom like some of these other governors.

00:35:31.760 Yeah, we did.

00:35:33.860 And when President Trump talked about the virus and having two weeks, you know, everybody does an emergency declaration because that's what you have to do in order to have federal resources come into your state and help if necessary.

00:35:47.380 But and if you remember, in every state, they were telling people that they were going to lose hundreds of thousands of people were going to be dead.

00:35:53.720 But but it was within, I think, six weeks that we ended ours and just knew that people had to go back to normal and that and we called it our back to business plan.

00:36:05.480 And we were we never did shut anything down.

00:36:08.640 We never mandated anything.

00:36:09.800 We gave suggestions to people and helped facilitate different things.

00:36:13.320 But even large events like the Sturgis Motorcycle Bike Rally or the celebration we had at Mount Rushmore.

00:36:19.420 We just believed that people still needed to make their own decisions on where the bike rally.

00:36:24.020 The MSNBC lost its mind over that and, you know, waiting for the massive covid outbreak, which didn't come just like it didn't come after the NFL opened up.

00:36:32.480 The huge stadiums and 40,000 people were next to each other, you know, outside and still the left told us this was going to be the next super spreader.

00:36:40.380 All of them. Can I ask you something?

00:36:42.760 So I I've never been to South Dakota, but we do go to Montana all the time.

00:36:47.840 And so I feel like it's probably similar.

00:36:50.680 And one of the things I love about going up to that region of the country is it's so very different from where I've lived my life, New York State and the past 20 plus years, New York City.

00:36:59.820 And I wonder whether I don't want to insult my my home state, but I wonder whether like the New York City residents, they were terrified.

00:37:11.320 They there are so many of them in particular on the left, I have to be honest, but not all a lot of a lot of lefties kind of crossed over to independence as a result of the hysteria who were like, if they had a governor like you, they would have cried in their soup every night.

00:37:24.940 They needed direction. You know, they they didn't feel qualified to handle this without a governor or a government bureaucrat telling them how to do it.

00:37:33.820 You got to Montana. It's like I always tell us examples.

00:37:36.460 Let's just give it one small thing like New York guns. Oh, my God, no guns.

00:37:40.500 And you go to Montana. They're like, would you like to put a bullet on your cowboy hat that you can wear on this horse for a really rough ride that you don't even have to have a real helmet for?

00:37:48.920 And no, you don't need to sign a waiver. It's just a different life.

00:37:53.480 Yeah, it is. But I would also say that there was a lot of scared people in South Dakota, too.

00:37:58.200 And and that's when I talk about, you know, managing other leaders.

00:38:02.040 We had I had a lot of mayors that wanted to shut their cities down, a lot of county commissioners that felt and they all wanted me to make that decision.

00:38:09.940 So they didn't have to. So, you know, as soon as I would get off a conference call with other governors, I would, you know, get on a call with mayors or then I would have a call with, you know, legislators or.

00:38:23.340 And then if I had one mayor that was unsteady, I would say, listen, I hear you want to close your city down.

00:38:30.300 Tell me what your cases are. Let's talk through the numbers. OK, what do you anticipate that they'll be in two weeks?

00:38:35.100 OK, so it's going to get worse. I get it. So do you how long do you think people can stay locked in their homes?

00:38:41.060 And if you let these people, if you lock them in their homes today and it gets worse and there's more cases and you decide to let them out because people don't have the capacity to stay there, I will blow you up.

00:38:52.500 I will have a press conference and I will tell the world how irresponsible you were.

00:38:57.000 So just know that you and I are going to have a very public fight over what you did.

00:39:01.880 And and I said, so let's do this. Let's turn off the TV. I will call you in the morning.

00:39:07.480 We'll talk again. And let's just for right now, decide that we're going to wait 12 hours and we'll talk in the morning.

00:39:13.480 And that's that's what we did the whole time with different leaders and different people that were feeling incredible pressure they'd never felt before.

00:39:21.100 And I think that is the stuff that people just don't know. They don't know that all that was going on or that we as governors were calling each other all the time and talking over, you know, what we were doing, resources, how we get enough masks or different medical supplies that we needed.

00:39:37.920 So people, if you give them some, you can still give them instruction and give them direction without mandating it.

00:39:44.800 You know, that's that's what I think.

00:39:46.380 New York Governor Kathy Hochul wasn't on your list after she took over for Cuomo.

00:39:50.320 Her little vaccinated necklace. She went a different way.

00:39:55.280 And a lot of New Yorkers are still paying the price.

00:39:58.100 All right, let me shift gears because I have so many things I want to hit with you.

00:40:01.300 Guns, as I mentioned, New York State, not so pro-gun in its politics, but just got dealt a blow by the U.S. Supreme Court in a decision that I think was rightly decided, where two guys from my hometowns, upstate New York people, went in there and said, if this is a right, if I have a Second Amendment right to carry a gun, why do I have to jump through 40,000 hoops and convince some town bureaucrat that I deserve to carry one when I want to go out?

00:40:30.540 And, you know, you've created more of a privilege around this, what I believe is a constitutional right.

00:40:36.400 And the Supreme Court said, you're 100 percent right.

00:40:38.580 And in a six to three decision ruled that you can't in New York cannot do this.

00:40:43.340 And about eight other states now are going to have to relax their permitting requirements and not require you to show a special need in order to exercise your right.

00:40:53.600 So your thoughts on where we stand now in the wake of Uvalde and the Buffalo shooting and now we have this bipartisan legislation, which, you know, I got to tell you, as somebody who I'm not, I'm not pro Second Amendment, I'm not anti Second Amendment, you know, whatever.

00:41:11.160 I'm not really into it the way a lot of people are.

00:41:13.360 So it sounds kind of reasonable to me, like, OK, greater background checks for the 18 year olds, that makes sense, more money for mental health, that makes sense.

00:41:21.360 So what's wrong with that law?

00:41:23.200 Well, I would just say it comes down to your constitutional right.

00:41:28.740 And that is I think it's been a great week for the Constitution.

00:41:32.020 I think the Supreme Court has made several decisions here that back up, you know, what our founders gave us and what kind of liberty they intended for us to live with.

00:41:42.000 So in South Dakota, you know, we constitutional carry was the very first bill I signed into law.

00:41:47.240 The previous governor had vetoed it a couple of times.

00:41:49.560 And I was very firm in the belief that I did believe it was a constitutional right and that people are offered due process before that right can be taken away.

00:42:00.580 That's one of the issues with this bill.

00:42:02.540 I also these red flag laws don't offer due process.

00:42:06.520 And that is something that that we at the beginning of this country guaranteed every single citizen that lives here.

00:42:12.760 So, you know, every time we start talking about guns, we're just not having an honest conversation about what's going on in a lot of these tragedies.

00:42:20.680 The honest conversation is what's the one consistent theme in these tragedies that happen?

00:42:25.600 And it is children or young individuals that did not have a parent or a family member that was a big part of their lives that was taking care of them.

00:42:35.680 There was not help given to them when they were in an addiction issue or a mental health issue.

00:42:41.060 They were ignored.

00:42:42.320 They were overlooked.

00:42:43.280 And society has chosen instead to allow them to be pushed to the wayside until a tragedy happened, until they took that anger out or that sickness, that addiction really was perpetuated in a way like we've seen in so many of these tragic situations.

00:42:59.600 So we just got to start being really honest about it is is is there an effect that our society is having on our young people is is drugs and addiction changing their brain chemistry chemistry and causing instability is the lack of a family and support system affecting our children.

00:43:16.040 What does Hollywood and movies do to with the violence that's perpetuated on screen that they surround themselves due to their perception of reality and what's acceptable and what's not these video games?

00:43:26.760 You know, how if you if you if you take God completely out of someone's life and replace it with these kinds of graphic images, does that change how they look at other people around them?

00:43:36.940 And that's the reality of what I think is changing in our culture.

00:43:41.700 It's a lack of value for human life and the inability to go and walk alongside people that are really struggling with with trauma or with a mental issue.

00:43:51.420 And we're just not willing to extend ourselves enough to really get to the root of the issue.

00:43:56.300 So we can keep talking about guns and passing more gun laws.

00:44:01.660 The fact of the matter is, is that the states that have the most gun restrictions in them are often those that have the highest crime rates as well.

00:44:09.520 So like New York, how do we how do we think that's going to fix everything?

00:44:12.940 I just don't think New York, New York State has a ton of gun laws on the books.

00:44:15.860 And that's where the Buffalo shooting happened.

00:44:18.160 And I will say the one thing about the new gun law that I liked was the ability, the potential ability to look at a like an 18 year old applying for a permit to look into whatever mental health crisis was on his record.

00:44:30.380 Right now, that's been inaccessible unless it crossed over into the criminal arena.

00:44:34.600 And if I understand what they're doing, what they're proposing with this, it would allow more access into that before the permits granted that that could potentially help.

00:44:45.800 I don't know.

00:44:46.840 But I feel like that's we do that.

00:44:48.480 There's there's a profile of the shooters.

00:44:50.460 It doesn't always line up, but there's a profile.

00:44:52.900 Well, there's a profile, but I would just say we have to go a little bit deeper than than what the surface is and that we need to ensure that a fair and just equitable criminal justice system is still in place in the United States and that we are giving due process to every single person before we take away their constitutional rights.

00:45:10.300 Yeah, I mean, the mental health problem.

00:45:13.220 And of course, this new bill has money for mental health, but we're not going to solve much until we get really honest about, I think, the need to take away certain people's civil liberties like when it comes to commitment.

00:45:25.360 I mean, I think you red flag in a class who's an obvious future school shooter who's making open threats about a mass shooting.

00:45:33.320 In my view, that person needs to be mandatorily committed for two weeks until we get a full evaluation.

00:45:39.520 And I know that people say on the left in particular, no, no, you know, you can't mandatorily.

00:45:43.720 Yes, yes, we can.

00:45:45.200 That's that's for my civil liberties and your civil liberties and our children's civil liberties.

00:45:49.560 Like people who are an open threat should have to lose their freedoms for short stints until we can figure out whether they are trustworthy as well.

00:45:59.120 That's the law in many places of this country is, you know, you're not allowed to just start making threats against people like that.

00:46:05.000 So many times, though, we've heard people have made threats many times before and been on the radar of law enforcement and nobody's done anything about it.

00:46:12.900 They've ignored it.

00:46:14.700 Exactly.

00:46:15.440 Or then, you know, you get a situation down in Uvalde where they do something about it and then law enforcement does absolutely nothing.

00:46:21.580 And that whole thing is just too stomach turning.

00:46:23.900 Oh, gosh, that's just I mean, that makes you sick.

00:46:27.500 Right.

00:46:27.600 I mean, when I when I was in Italy and I found out that that door was open the whole time, I just got back from vacation.

00:46:32.800 The door was open the whole time.

00:46:34.800 All I had to do was turn the knob to get in there and start saving lives.

00:46:38.200 It's just all right.

00:46:39.380 Let me pause it there.

00:46:40.360 I'll squeeze in a quick break.

00:46:41.660 We'll come back.

00:46:42.400 I want to talk about faith, the effect it's had on your life.

00:46:45.540 The Supreme Court decision, renewing a commitment to religious liberty in this country, a great opinion by Justice Gorsuch and the background, the fascinating background of Governor Christine Hill.

00:46:57.600 One of the things that you learned growing up in South Dakota was the importance of faith.

00:47:05.640 And you write that if the church doors were open, your family was there.

00:47:10.180 And so you grew up an observant Christian.

00:47:13.160 And I understand, you know, continue to have that faith in your life.

00:47:17.340 So I'm going to guess that the two religious freedom cases just decided by the U.S. Supreme Court were were welcome.

00:47:23.880 In your view, there was one saying that.

00:47:28.020 Public funds given to students in Maine who needed to find schooling could be used on schools that provided religious education.

00:47:36.360 And then the big one came out on Monday involving Coach Kennedy, who we actually had on this program not long ago, who just wanted to pray at the 50 yard line after the games and didn't say anybody else had to come join him.

00:47:47.120 But a lot of the students were faithful as well and went and did it.

00:47:49.840 And the school fired him.

00:47:51.880 They fired him.

00:47:53.540 And the Supreme Court in a six to three decision said, no, you violated his free speech rights and you violated his religious freedom rights.

00:48:00.980 Saying in part in a decision written by Justice Gorsuch, a Trump appointee, learning how to tolerate speech or prayer of all kinds is part of learning how to live in a pluralistic society.

00:48:12.020 A trade of character essential to a tolerant citizenry and went on to say respect for religious expressions is indispensable to life in a free and diverse republic.

00:48:24.780 How about that?

00:48:26.780 It's a powerful statement.

00:48:29.420 I love that opinion that he brought forward just because it's so it's the clarity that we need in this country right now of what was guaranteed by us in the United States of America.

00:48:40.440 So I those decisions were very, very important.

00:48:43.280 And we have a lot of people that get confused about the role of faith and government and government and faith and schools and how that interaction happens.

00:48:52.040 And in fact, even in South Dakota this year, I brought a bill that would have put a moment of silence into a school day.

00:48:59.700 It would have been a moment every day where a student had an opportunity to have either a prayer if they wanted to pray to whoever they would like to or a moment of silence or just a quiet time.

00:49:10.440 But it was to clearly draw a line in the sand that praying is allowed in our schools, that it is facilitated, that every teacher, every administrator, every person in the state would know that that is something that you have a right to do.

00:49:23.000 And it was killed by Republicans.

00:49:24.280 That bill was killed by Republicans because they did not feel it would be something that the school should have to worry about.

00:49:32.820 They didn't want the controversy of it.

00:49:35.060 And so this type of decision brings clarity to so many people about the fact that that faith is to be protected from the government.

00:49:44.120 It's not to protect our government from our faith and our religion, that this is one thing that people could use some direction from.

00:49:52.840 And I'm so thankful for the Supreme Court making a decision that truly sends that message to the country.

00:49:57.460 Yes. And I appreciate your effort to do that, because we are in a situation now as mothers, as people who have kids in the school system where our kids have you're not even allowed to mention God or religion unless it's in a way that's disparaging.

00:50:12.560 That'll pass. And yet we're supposed we're called bigots if we object to, you know, the LGBTQ pride parade with kink being shoved down in our faces left and right.

00:50:23.780 So we don't want our kids to see that. But if we try to mention anything about God, especially in the school setting, even if it's neutral, you know, like like you're doing a moment of silence where you can think about God or just meditative about your life and its meaning.

00:50:36.740 That's not allowed. Yeah. Well, it was interesting because many of these Republicans said, well, this isn't a problem in South Dakota yet.

00:50:43.260 And I thought, why do we have to constantly it has been an issue now since legislative session got out in a couple of school districts.

00:50:49.600 And what's interesting to me is is is as leaders, you should lead, be clear and bring clarity when you can, especially in our school districts, which right now are kind of a war zone for people that have other agendas and other opinions and trying to indoctrinate certain beliefs on our children.

00:51:06.880 So it's it's interesting to me that the people that get confused on religion in schools and government, I'm hopeful that we can bring more clarity with decisions like this so that in our schools, our kids feel the freedom that if they want to stop for a minute by their locker and have a quick prayer with a friend, they can do that.

00:51:24.960 That's that's what this country is all about.

00:51:26.820 Mm hmm. What do you when I hear you talking about taking on your own party and so on?

00:51:32.360 I mean, of course, I've got to ask you what everybody wants to know, which is.

00:51:36.540 Well, does that mean there could be higher aspirations for you politically?

00:51:39.760 Could you potentially do that on the national level, either as a Republican presidential candidate in 2024 or potentially as a running mate to a man we all know very well?

00:51:52.020 Mm hmm. He was running a real estate business and he was president from 2016 to 2020.

00:51:59.420 You know, I honestly don't know that's you know, people ask it a lot.

00:52:03.560 So obviously, I've had to think about it a bit, but it's just not something that's in my plans.

00:52:07.520 We I'm running for reelection this year in South Dakota.

00:52:10.500 I'm hoping that people will trust me to lead for another four years as governor.

00:52:13.860 Beyond that, I think anybody who's making plans just maybe doesn't understand the volatility of this political environment that we're in.

00:52:21.940 And I'm always a little leery, Megan, of people who dream of being president of the United States.

00:52:26.580 I think these people that grow up and plan it for years and years probably should never be president of the United States.

00:52:32.760 They more than likely want to do it for the wrong reasons.

00:52:35.340 I I think it's probably time in this country we have a reluctant president again, because those are the ones that truly take the job seriously, recognize the challenges of it.

00:52:45.520 And the reality is we start looking at the Republican primary.

00:52:49.300 There's probably going to be 48 different people running in that primary.

00:52:53.720 You know, there's a lot of people who are saying they want to be president of the United States.

00:52:57.380 I'm just not convinced that it has to be me.

00:53:00.200 Well, especially if Trump doesn't run.

00:53:01.900 If Trump runs, a lot of people will decide not to do it.

00:53:05.140 But if he doesn't run, yeah, it's going to be a wide open field.

00:53:08.820 And if he does run, it seems pretty clear he's not running with Mike Pence.

00:53:12.560 And then there will be a new right.

00:53:14.160 Then there will be a new spot open for somebody else.

00:53:17.600 Somebody who I know they've heard they called you the female Trump.

00:53:22.060 So it could be you.

00:53:24.900 He you know, I I I dearly love the guy.

00:53:28.560 He let me do my job as governor and he helped me.

00:53:32.500 You know, when I was in Congress with tax reform, he was passionate and truly did some big things in this country.

00:53:39.260 So I appreciate his policies and what he did.

00:53:41.800 I'd love to have him back, especially compared to who we have in the White House today.

00:53:46.020 You know, the fact is right now, I don't think anybody can beat him in a primary.

00:53:48.840 So if he does run, you know, he's going to have to figure out how he wins a general election.

00:53:53.280 And I think the way to do that, because right now it would be difficult to be a challenge.

00:53:58.260 I think he has got to put together a team that gives people confidence in the fact that he's got the right people together that are going to fix the country, put it right the ship.

00:54:08.100 You know, he's got to announce who his attorney general would be.

00:54:10.720 During that campaign, he'd have to say who his secretary of state would be, who his vice president would be.

00:54:15.100 That would be something that would reassure and unite a lot of Republicans.

00:54:18.620 I think Republicans really got to get it together and grow up a little bit, too, because they're all just trying to pretend that he's not going to run or hope for it and make no plans.

00:54:29.820 We've got to figure out how do we put a strategy together to really win because our country is counting on it more than ever.

00:54:36.500 Yeah. And it's it's dicey with Trump, right?

00:54:38.840 It's like he's obviously got a huge swath of support in the Republican Party, but he's also such a divisive figure that cuts both ways.

00:54:46.640 And I don't you know, for me as a journalist, it's easy because I get to watch and report on it and eat the popcorn while you guys do get out.

00:54:52.780 But I know it's for people who are diehard Republicans.

00:54:55.680 They worry. And the Democrats and they know we're worried about our country, too.

00:54:59.340 I mean, four more years of Biden. I like I'm not sure if it keeps going in this direction.

00:55:03.780 What's going to be left? All right.

00:55:05.800 Let me shift gears because enough about politics. I want to talk about you and the Snow Queen.

00:55:09.120 How did that happen? This is the year was 1990.

00:55:11.640 1990. Is that the year I want to talk about? Oh, my goodness.

00:55:16.480 Yes, I do. I'm I'm I'm a shallow person.

00:55:21.280 I love the big hair.

00:55:24.440 Pretty successful. People don't know that much. Oh, yeah, there we are.

00:55:28.900 From your book. What year was this?

00:55:31.380 So that was 1990 in South Dakota, especially back then.

00:55:36.840 And when you were a senior in high school, most of the girls competed in the Snow Queen contest, which really was a local area contest where you gave interviews and speeches.

00:55:48.880 And they chose one to go on to the state competition and through that, you got scholarships.

00:55:56.860 At that time, they gave a car, other items.

00:56:00.300 And then you traveled throughout the Midwest or the country being an ambassador for your state to different festivals and different gatherings or whatever.

00:56:08.320 So I did that with all my friends when I was a senior in high school, won the local contest and then went to the state contest with 52 other young women.

00:56:17.680 And, yeah, very interesting experience, because I, you know, if you remember, I was a ranch girl, a farm.

00:56:23.960 In fact, when I won the state competition, the headline in all the newspapers was farm girl wins snow queen.

00:56:31.000 It was like everybody that thought, wow, this is different.

00:56:35.980 So but it was very good for me.

00:56:38.220 You know, it's interesting.

00:56:39.040 You go back that far and to know that much about my state travel and get to be an ambassador for it.

00:56:45.560 You know, it really was a great opportunity for me to.

00:56:47.960 Well, a new car doesn't suck either.

00:56:50.460 Oh, no.

00:56:51.620 You know, you would have you would have loved it.

00:56:53.680 It was a black Trans Am with the sunroof.

00:56:56.220 But on the side of it, it had huge gold letters that said 1990 South Dakota Snow Queen on it.

00:57:03.100 No, that's the car.

00:57:05.160 College.

00:57:05.960 Imagine me pulling onto campus with this car that had big gold lettering on it.

00:57:12.260 It was.

00:57:12.940 Yeah, it was fantastic.

00:57:14.380 And I was in the dorm with the entire football team.

00:57:17.280 So, you know, I didn't get any teasing whatsoever.

00:57:20.480 Oh, please.

00:57:21.120 They would have done anything for there not to be a Brian Noem already in your life.

00:57:26.280 Oh, that's true.

00:57:28.080 You know, it's interesting.

00:57:29.300 I totaled out that car, too.

00:57:30.880 So that was the last year they gave a car to the Snow Queen.

00:57:34.500 So sad.

00:57:35.840 Well, I laughed in your book.

00:57:37.380 You were talking about when you first ran for office.

00:57:38.840 And the biggest controversy you faced was you had some speeding tickets.

00:57:42.220 Oh, I know.

00:57:42.660 And now it all makes sense.

00:57:43.720 Now, I mean, they're going to give you a black Trans Am at, you know, age 19.

00:57:46.900 You're going to drive it fast.

00:57:48.160 That's what's the point of having it if you're not going to do that?

00:57:50.460 Well, I yeah, I had a dad that was like, you get to where you're going fast and get back here with those parts for that tractor or hurry up and go get this.

00:57:57.840 And don't make me wait.

00:57:59.300 You know, that was how we were raised.

00:58:00.720 So and if we got speeding tickets, we paid them and kept going.

00:58:05.680 But yeah, that was that was I don't let's not revisit.

00:58:08.220 That's a stupid controversy.

00:58:09.200 But whatever.

00:58:10.080 I just thought when I seen the Trans Am that that brings it all together.

00:58:13.600 But I do want to talk about talk to you about your dad, because that was one of the saddest and sweetest parts of your book.

00:58:18.900 And I have to say, I can relate.

00:58:20.960 I can relate.

00:58:21.900 I lost my own dad when he was 45.

00:58:23.800 Your dad died in an accident in an accident on your farm when he was 49.

00:58:30.400 And you go through it in great detail for the YouTube audience who are putting pictures up of the governor's dad and mom.

00:58:37.520 And it was horrifying what happened to him in this corn auger.

00:58:43.020 It was like the auger couldn't be turned on to save him after having gotten sucked in because it would have ensured his death.

00:58:50.520 And you write in the book something to the effect of I was sitting there in the hospital waiting to hear, you know, if they could have revived him in the same hospital you were supposed to be late that same night for birthing classes for your child with whom you were eight months pregnant.

00:59:05.800 And instead, they came in and told you there was there was nothing they could do and that he was gone.

00:59:10.640 And you were in you would you were in sort of a fight with him over something silly.

00:59:16.300 And Christy, I said the exact same thing happened with me.

00:59:19.920 You know, I was only 15, but I lost my dad that night in a sudden heart attack in our case and was in a fight with him over something stupid.

00:59:28.540 And it's just one of those things where, you know, they would never want you or me to be walking around feeling guilt or anything other than their love for us thereafter.

00:59:37.100 But you're only human.

00:59:39.960 Yeah. Yeah.

00:59:41.180 It that's the one thing I wish I could tell people is that you're not ever guaranteed another day.

00:59:46.700 You're not guaranteed you're going to see these people again.

00:59:49.320 We have enough tragedies in our family and in our country that that that's the reality.

00:59:55.200 And and sometimes you watch people just throw people away in their lives that that, you know, is unnecessary.

01:00:02.180 So I I talk a little bit in the book about having him be gone and just the fact that I wish I hadn't complained so much when he asked me to do stuff.

01:00:12.220 I wish I would have sat down and visited more when I had the chance to.

01:00:16.180 He he always hurt his back hurt so bad.

01:00:18.780 He was always in pain because he worked so hard and he used to ask us to rub his feet at night.

01:00:23.220 And I just remember thinking, I wish that I just, you know, would have not once, you know, tried to sneak upstairs without him seeing me so I didn't have to rub his feet for him so he would feel better.

01:00:33.640 You know, that's the kind of stuff that you just don't realize you're missing out on until they're already gone.

01:00:39.460 It was very difficult because he was such a larger than life person.

01:00:43.120 And I'm sure your dad was like this to you, too.

01:00:45.360 You know, your whole life as a young girl revolves kind of around your dad.

01:00:48.280 And and when all of a sudden they're gone, you can't even imagine what the next 24 hours is going to look like, much less the rest of your life.

01:00:57.160 And you found these tapes where, in addition to talking a lot about corn, he talked about you.

01:01:04.040 He talked about you and your siblings and talked about how tough you were, how he could see that you were such a tough kid.

01:01:11.860 And I must have been so comforting in a way.

01:01:14.180 It's just sort of a way of shoring you up from beyond, I think.

01:01:19.940 Well, you know, my dad wasn't a talker.

01:01:22.140 He was a doer.

01:01:23.580 And so it was it took me probably five or six months before I could clean out his pickup.

01:01:29.020 You know, farmers and ranchers live in their pickup.

01:01:31.000 Everything they have, their notes, their pens, their tools.

01:01:34.560 You know, even I talk about the fact that he always had a case of warm seven up and old candy bars or whatever in his backseat of his truck.

01:01:42.700 And, you know, you just you everything he that was important was in his pickup.

01:01:46.560 And it took me a long time to go clean out his pickup after he passed away.

01:01:49.640 But when I did, I opened up the council and there was dozens of these little, you know, dictation tapes in there and a little tape recorder that, you know, doctors talked into back then.

01:02:00.340 And it was his voice and it was just him talking.

01:02:04.260 I had been running the farm then, a very large operation, a lot of people working for me, a lot of men working for me that were middle aged that didn't want to be working for a 22 year old pregnant lady or lady with a brand new baby.

01:02:17.200 And getting challenged on every decision I was making and here on these tapes was every answer I could have ever wanted.

01:02:24.720 What soil type was the best for what crop, what to do with cattle, what to do if we ever got into financial trouble.

01:02:31.280 And then some of these tapes were years and years old.

01:02:34.220 In fact, he'd moved them from pickup to pickup.

01:02:36.840 And when he'd gotten a new pickup, he just moved them.

01:02:39.760 And there was a tape in there almost 10 years old where he talked about us kids, what he thought our strengths were, what our weaknesses were.

01:02:47.620 And it was just amazing because this is not something my dad rarely said, you know, I love you, much less talked about us.

01:02:54.400 And it was that was when I knew everything was going to be OK.

01:02:57.360 I thought if God loves me this much, that he literally gave me all the answers that I needed in his own voice, then we're going to be fine.

01:03:06.220 And I think that was the first night that I finally could sleep because I felt the peace that I knew we were going to be OK.

01:03:14.260 I can't imagine that find and that feeling.

01:03:18.700 I mean, I can remember in my own case.

01:03:21.180 This is 1985 when my dad died and just re-listening over and over to his voice on the answering machine tape.

01:03:28.340 I remember doing that, just playing the answering machine.

01:03:31.720 You know, you've reached the Kellys.

01:03:32.660 That sort of a treasure trove, that there is some divine intervention there.

01:03:37.800 And I couldn't help, of course, but think, my God, if he could see you now, he would be so proud of you.

01:03:44.080 I mean, it makes me root for you.

01:03:46.440 It makes me so glad you wrote the book and so glad that you decided to lead, you know, notwithstanding the many challenges thrown your way.

01:03:53.900 Well, I mean, I appreciate sometimes I think he might become kind of crazy, but I think that, yeah, he was pretty incredible.

01:04:02.100 And my mom is probably the only woman in the world that could have been married to him because all he did was work all the time.

01:04:09.720 I remember her, you know, as we were going out the door to work all the time, her shoving food in our pockets.

01:04:14.460 And here, just eat this on the way to the field and, you know, facilitating everything and taking care of everybody.

01:04:20.160 It was really unique.

01:04:21.260 But you know what?

01:04:21.840 We were together.

01:04:22.920 And that's what I think so many families don't make a priority today is that it just wasn't an option not to be with our family.

01:04:29.080 And I think that's one of the reasons why we turned out and we ended up with a value system that really does give us this quality of life we get to enjoy.

01:04:37.160 So he was pretty special, hard work, faith, family, values, a commitment to the land and to the understanding that, as Ronald Reagan said, government is not the solution to our problems.

01:04:52.320 It tends more often to be the source of them.

01:04:55.660 It's you read the book and you get to understand a lot about how you handled covid and who you are as a woman, as a wife, as a mother, as a leader.

01:05:03.100 And I think this book is going to become very relevant over the next year in the lead up to 2024.

01:05:09.180 Good luck with it.

01:05:10.200 Thank you so much for coming on.

01:05:12.380 Loved visiting with you, Megan.

01:05:13.780 I just think the world of use.

01:05:15.240 So, yeah, anytime.

01:05:16.420 Let's stay in touch.

01:05:17.640 OK, absolutely.

01:05:18.580 And don't forget, the new book is called Not My First Rodeo.

01:05:22.380 You will enjoy it cover to cover.

01:05:23.920 This is I did.

01:05:28.280 The madness over the Roe versus Wade decision continues.

01:05:31.860 AOC and other liberal politicians have suggested, as I mentioned in our interview with Governor Noem, using federal land to build new abortion clinics in red states.

01:05:43.780 Hmm.

01:05:44.840 Is that a rational solution?

01:05:46.300 Joining me now to discuss is senior political correspondent at National Review and co-host of the Three Martini Lunch podcast, which sounds like a great idea.

01:05:55.180 Jim Garrity.

01:05:56.300 Welcome back to the show, Jim.

01:05:57.200 Good to have you.

01:05:58.480 Megan, it's good to be back.

01:05:59.320 And thanks very much for having me.

01:06:00.700 My pleasure.

01:06:01.160 I'm glad we got this in right under under the wire on that three martini lunch.

01:06:05.560 So AOC, I think we've got this on tape.

01:06:08.400 Do we have this on tape team?

01:06:09.880 She talks about crisis of legitimacy.

01:06:12.080 And then, yes, at nine.

01:06:13.820 This is her proposal.

01:06:15.480 One of the things that we know, too, is that there are also actions at President Biden's disposal that he can mobilize.

01:06:21.960 All right.

01:06:22.360 All right, there.

01:06:26.860 I'll start with the babiest of the babiest of the baby steps.

01:06:31.200 Open abortion clinics on federal lands and let's take right now.

01:06:36.760 Right now.

01:06:38.140 OK, she's a congressional Kardashian.

01:06:41.420 That's what AOC is, right?

01:06:43.360 I've heard you guys talk about it.

01:06:44.740 I've heard my friends over in commentary talk about it.

01:06:46.960 She's using this as a platform to advance her own personal brand like an influencer.

01:06:51.400 And so nobody should be listening to AOC, but they do.

01:06:54.860 They stood.

01:06:55.480 They cheered.

01:06:56.740 And more and more people think this is a good idea, Jim, that we should just start building abortion clinics in our forests, in our Native American tribe, tribal land and so on.

01:07:06.760 What say you?

01:07:07.240 I was going to say, Megan, I try to avoid excessive name calling.

01:07:12.260 I don't think you can easily dismiss people as being stupid.

01:07:15.720 Oftentimes they have knowledge you just don't know about or just don't see.

01:07:19.400 But my colleague, Kevin Williamson, is fond of saying every answer looks simple when you don't know the first thing about the subject.

01:07:26.640 And if you think that, oh, we'll just open up abortion clinics on federal land in red states.

01:07:31.720 And you characterize that, as she said, as the babiest of the babiest of the baby steps.

01:07:36.300 By the way, I'm just going to pause for the irony that in a discussion about terminating pregnancies, her preferred metaphor is baby steps.

01:07:44.860 There's a whole bunch of legal, financial and logistical challenges to what she envisions here.

01:07:51.120 And she didn't go into a lot of specifics.

01:07:52.860 Her colleague over in the Senate, Elizabeth Warren, did openly say, why not at national parks?

01:07:58.660 So next time you're taking the camper into Yosemite or Grand Tetons or one of these other great national parks in the West,

01:08:05.700 wouldn't you love to see an abortion clinic right there by the entrance?

01:08:09.580 Somehow I think there are even going to be a bunch of pro-choice folks who are like, no, that's not where I want them.

01:08:15.280 That's not a good idea.

01:08:16.620 But let's begin with first and foremost, could you legally do this?

01:08:19.900 The Hyde Amendment is still in effect in the most current spending bills that have been passed by Congress.

01:08:25.260 Democrats always say they're going to repeal it or not put it into legislation.

01:08:29.220 Republicans always say, oh, yes, you will.

01:08:31.620 Otherwise, you won't get our votes for passage.

01:08:33.540 And it has been in every spending bill going back for many, many, many years.

01:08:37.820 Could Democrats someday pass a spending bill that did not include it?

01:08:41.440 I suppose, theoretically, that could happen.

01:08:44.280 I think it's pretty likely that we're going to see some changes coming to Congress coming in November.

01:08:48.140 So they probably would have if they're going to do this, they'd have to do this before January, presumably.

01:08:52.240 But let's say, OK, they decide to do this.

01:08:54.620 Then there's the question of where do you get the money to build all these abortion clinics?

01:08:57.400 Now, obviously, Congress could then do this.

01:09:00.520 I'm sure you'd see a filibuster.

01:09:02.040 Of course, you would see a massive effort against this from Republicans in Congress and even those few remaining pro-life Democrats.

01:09:08.780 There aren't a lot of them.

01:09:09.480 There's just a handful.

01:09:10.240 But they would probably have some problems with this.

01:09:13.000 But let's see.

01:09:13.440 Because the idea, this wouldn't just be permitting abortion.

01:09:15.880 This would be using taxpayer dollars to build abortion clinics in these states that have already chosen to ban or effectively ban abortion.

01:09:24.360 But let's say they can get the votes for both of those.

01:09:27.960 Let's assume that they manage to overcome this.

01:09:30.700 Let's say they suspend the filibuster.

01:09:32.800 Because indeed, there are Democrats who are saying, this is when we need to suspend the filibuster and only require 50 votes to pass legislation.

01:09:40.520 Now, you may have noticed the Senate is 50-50.

01:09:42.960 Joe Manchin is resolutely opposed to this.

01:09:44.760 Let's say they manage to change his mind.

01:09:47.580 They get a mind control ray.

01:09:49.120 Whatever they do to overcome that particular division, it is a decent chance Republicans will take control of the Senate after November.

01:09:57.020 So Senate Democrats will have eliminated the filibuster right before they lose control of the Senate.

01:10:02.180 Now, most people could see the potential long-term drawbacks.

01:10:05.860 Oh, by the way, everything you can pass through legislation could presumably be then undone by a Republican Congress.

01:10:12.240 Yes, Biden would veto it.

01:10:13.500 We'd have to see how the votes shook out and stuff like that.

01:10:15.980 But that would be another challenge.

01:10:16.760 Let's say, OK, you got the funding, you've got all that stuff.

01:10:19.560 Many people have probably noticed that national parks or stretches of land that are controlled by the U.S. Federal Government's Bureau of Land Management, they're kind of out in the middle of nowhere.

01:10:28.380 They are big, open, empty stretches.

01:10:30.940 Oh, by the way, I've heard one of the proposals of military bases.

01:10:33.460 And if you think the Pentagon is in a bad mood now, imagine the day you tell them, hey, you know all those secure facilities you have out there?

01:10:39.760 Now you've got to open up the gates so we can put abortion clinics right by there.

01:10:43.040 I guess getting into Area 51 was pretty challenging beforehand.

01:10:47.360 This would be probably even tougher.

01:10:48.500 But hey, let's decide to go with this.

01:10:51.180 The irony is, is that if you do this in these large chunks of federal lands that are out in the middle of nowhere, it's really not a convenient location for all the people who are going to be wanting to go and have abortions.

01:11:01.240 They're generally a long drive out in the middle of nowhere.

01:11:03.700 So none of this really makes that much, you know, like, again, much sense.

01:11:07.620 You cannot characterize this as the babyest of the babyest of the baby steps.

01:11:12.040 If I were, I'm, I think of myself as a pretty darn pro-life guy, but if I were doing this, I'd be like, okay, abortion pills will be much tougher to regulate and much tougher to restrict in states like this.

01:11:21.780 There's been talk about opening abortion clinics on the state, right by the state lines, within pro-choice states.

01:11:27.700 That all seems like a much more plausible scenario than any of this idea of, oh, we're just going to open up abortion clinics on federal lands.

01:11:34.980 The notion of like, oh, Yosemite, oh, and abortions too.

01:11:39.140 Oh, we'll just, we'll put it all on travel bingo.

01:11:41.940 So, yeah, I just kind of, you know, you could just kind of picture somebody, this is one of those proposals that is not going to get out of that first meeting.

01:11:50.100 You're just going to, the first time they unveil blueprints and, you know, you have that lovely vista and the welcome to Yosemite sign and abortion, second turn on the left.

01:12:01.780 Not happening.

01:12:02.620 Now, speaking of moronic ideas that are not going anywhere there, and we're still on AOC, but she's not the only one suggesting that these justices need to be impeached.

01:12:12.780 Okay.

01:12:12.980 In particular, the ones she claims lied in the course of their confirmation hearings or private meetings with senators.

01:12:20.140 In particular, there's an allegation that Kavanaugh may have represented something to Susan Collins along the lines of, I will never ever reverse Roe.

01:12:27.800 I don't, I call bullshit.

01:12:28.780 There's no way he said that.

01:12:29.900 Um, and Gorsuch too, they, they gave assurances that they recognize Roe as a precedent and Casey as a precedent enforcing precedent.

01:12:38.540 That's not a promise, but in any event, this is sort of a fun exercise because you impeach a Supreme Court justice by getting a majority vote in the house.

01:12:47.920 And then you have to get two thirds of the Senate to actually convict.

01:12:52.320 It's the same with the president.

01:12:53.860 So the Democrats control the house.

01:12:55.700 So let's see him do it.

01:12:57.060 Let's, I hope they do it.

01:12:58.480 Let's see how that works out for them.

01:13:00.020 Let's see if AOC can get her colleagues in the Democrat controlled house to impeach these sitting Supreme Court justices and see how that affects their midterm chances.

01:13:11.020 What do you think of it?

01:13:11.520 One of the great ironies, by the way, is that I, you know, I think the proposals to expand the size of the Supreme Court, uh, are a terrible idea.

01:13:19.340 Um, I guess they're not directly unconstitutional, but certainly they're against the American, uh, political legal tradition.

01:13:25.000 Certainly the reaction to FDR indicates that even, uh, lots of folks who are generally aligned with, you know, democratic presidents think this is a bad, I think this is a bad idea, but that would theoretically change the dynamic on the court in the future.

01:13:38.020 Um, at this point, you're kind of like, it's kind of like, you know, shutting the barn door after the horse have left.

01:13:42.480 If you decide, well, they've made these decisions.

01:13:44.720 So now we're going to get rid of them.

01:13:45.980 That's how that's that the most that'll show Clarence Thomas, you know, uh, but then the second thing about, you know, could you get the votes again?

01:13:51.800 This is not a vote that a lot of Democrats who are in swing districts or swing States are going, going to want to take right before the November elections.

01:13:59.400 Uh, as I noted, the, you know, the majority, there are only 50 Democrats in the Senate right now.

01:14:04.620 Um, you would not come anywhere near 67.

01:14:06.680 And I think that was kind of one of the arguments going around about the past impeachments of President Trump is if you know, it's not going to succeed and you know, you're not going to come collect.

01:14:13.840 Like if you had 62, 63, 64, maybe you think that during the trial, you'll be able to change somebody's mind.

01:14:20.560 But when you know that not a single Republican center, not, I'd be very surprised to see Collins vote to, uh, to, to impeach Clarence Thomas.

01:14:29.640 I'd be surprised to see Murkowski.

01:14:31.300 There's no way Mitt Romney is going to do it.

01:14:33.520 This is doomed from the start.

01:14:35.040 So maybe you could see Democrats saying, oh, we'll do this right before November.

01:14:38.520 This will rally our base or something like that.

01:14:41.060 But I, uh, you know, the odds of that succeeding are exceptionally likely because, you know, you probably filled in, filled up your tank recently.

01:14:47.500 You've shopped for groceries lately.

01:14:48.940 None of these issues have gone away in the aftermath of this Supreme court decision.

01:14:53.300 And while I think, you know, there probably will be some progressive grassroots who are galvanized by all this.

01:14:58.120 I think all in all, this is still going to be a midterm election cycle that is heavily dominated by economic issues.

01:15:04.460 I think you're right.

01:15:05.040 We're dealing with just the immediate aftermath of the decision.

01:15:08.400 I will say the media is going to be very anti this decision and they're going to highlight all the heartstring stories and continue pushing like how these heartless Republicans and state after state.

01:15:18.380 But I just don't think that this is an issue that affects that many voters, that it's going to change what we both think is the likely scenario in these midterms, which is the Democrats losing a lot of seats and the Republicans taking back control, certainly in the House and maybe also the Senate.

01:15:33.200 But speaking of the Senate, we hear this more and more.

01:15:36.620 We heard it from Elizabeth Warren.

01:15:37.740 We've heard it from several now on the left talking about this is no longer a legitimate court.

01:15:42.280 OK, they've lost all their legitimacy because they've issued a decision she doesn't like.

01:15:47.920 Here it is.

01:15:48.620 We have the sound.

01:15:49.500 This court has lost legitimacy.

01:15:54.900 They have burned whatever legitimacy they may still have had after their gun decision, after their voting decision, after their union decision.

01:16:04.200 They just took the last of it and set a torch to it with the Roe versus Wade opinion.

01:16:10.420 And I'm taking my ball and I'm going home.

01:16:14.640 So what do you make of this crisis of legitimacy that we're hearing?

01:16:17.820 You know, it was funny.

01:16:19.740 I would say it was a friend's thread on Twitter pointed out just how long it's been since Republicans had a victory that Democrats accepted as legitimate.

01:16:30.460 When you look, think, you know, I'm old enough.

01:16:32.760 I will reveal.

01:16:33.640 You can probably tell from that gray hair there.

01:16:35.520 Old enough to remember 1988.

01:16:36.960 I was not old enough to vote.

01:16:38.160 But George H.W. Bush winning that election over Mike Dukakis was really the last time you saw Democrats arguing that Republicans had legitimately won the election, that they had not cheated, that the Democrat hadn't really been won, that there was some sort of nefarious tricks or skullduggery that had taken away a legitimate Democratic victory.

01:16:58.020 1992, Bill Clinton won, 96, Bill Clinton won.

01:17:01.360 And then in 2000, look, I will grant you the 2000 election coming down to Florida and coming down to a 537 vote margin in a state with, I think, like 6 million votes cast.

01:17:11.460 That's a really unusual set of circumstances.

01:17:13.840 However, you could not do a recount of four Gore-heavy counties and not do the same kind of hand recount in other counties.

01:17:21.500 Supreme Court made the decision based on the law that it was.

01:17:23.960 And, you know, but then you had four years of selected, not elected.

01:17:27.500 George W. Bush gets reelected in 2004.

01:17:30.280 And a bunch of us thought, OK, well, at least this one they won't.

01:17:32.520 No, no, no.

01:17:33.260 At that point, they had all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories of the Diebold election machines and how people had cast ballots for John Kerry, but the machines had changed them to George Bush.

01:17:44.840 Now, this seemed nonsensical at the time.

01:17:47.280 Some people then started adopting this.

01:17:49.360 This turned into this bizarrely common theory that I voted for this guy.

01:17:52.760 But trust me, I saw the machine change my vote for the other.

01:17:55.900 It couldn't possibly be that your finger was in the wrong spot on the touchscreen.

01:17:59.060 No, no, no.

01:17:59.520 It couldn't be something as simple as that.

01:18:01.100 It's got to be some sort of nefarious hacking of the machines, et cetera, et cetera.

01:18:05.820 Obama wins 2008.

01:18:07.220 Obama wins 2012.

01:18:08.700 I don't remember many Republicans saying, you know, that massive margin over John McCain, that was all Venezuelan voters.

01:18:16.360 That was all Chinese bamboo in the Arizona ballot.

01:18:19.460 You know, no, like most Obama kicked McCain's butt.

01:18:21.820 It wasn't what Republicans wanted to see, but that was legitimate how it shook out.

01:18:25.700 Similarly, against, you know, Mitt Romney, because Mitt Romney kept running around saying these crazy things like Russia being our preeminent geopolitical foe and, you know, that all the spending would get us in trouble someday.

01:18:35.240 All kinds of crazy stuff that, you know, the Americans just didn't want to have anything to do with.

01:18:38.820 And then you get to, look, 2016, Donald Trump wins.

01:18:43.760 It shocked a lot of people.

01:18:45.980 He did not win the popular vote, but, you know, that and $2.90 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

01:18:51.720 There is nothing in the Constitution that says you get some sort of consolation prize for winning the popular vote or anything like that.

01:18:57.560 Trump wins, but then you saw, you know, the violence at his inauguration and just this general sense that Trump had somehow not been legitimately elected.

01:19:05.540 And even if people did vote for him, they only did so because they were brainwashed by Russian ads on Facebook.

01:19:11.720 You know, there was, there was, there was, oh, by the way, those Facebook ads were run against deliberately targeted demographics that were very conservative.

01:19:19.220 Megan, do you know how many people who describe themselves as very conservative, who were eager to vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016?

01:19:25.800 I would guess they're pretty few and far between.

01:19:27.560 So my friend just kind of observed that like every Republican victory of the past 20 some years, maybe going up on 30 years, has been deemed illegitimate by a lot of Democrats on the left.

01:19:40.640 And so one, it makes it kind of, you know, if you are right of center, one of the, I was, I was observing someone, I don't say you can't enjoy it, but every victory you achieve comes with these arguments of it's not real.

01:19:53.580 It's not, it's not legitimate. It's not, it's only because of this, you know, nefarious Diebold machines or Russian hackers or stuff like this.

01:20:02.820 Well, 2020, look, you know, for anybody who's listening, Biden won. Biden won by, you know, fair and square by a large enough margin.

01:20:09.980 I did not like Pennsylvania choosing to count ballots that did not have a date on them with their absentee ballots sent in through the mail.

01:20:16.700 But the number of ballots that were of that were not a large enough margin to explain Biden's margin in the state of Pennsylvania.

01:20:22.560 Oh, by the way, he wouldn't, it wasn't just one, it wasn't like Florida where it came down to one state.

01:20:27.280 You'd have to point to like four or five states to flip them back to Trump to say that Trump legitimately won.

01:20:32.660 But, you know, for the first time, Republicans adopted this same strategy of you didn't really win.

01:20:37.380 Your win's not legitimate. Your win is, you know, you cheated. It's not real.

01:20:41.600 My guy really won and he's not taking the oath of office because you guys were so nefarious.

01:20:46.040 And I do think that is destructive to our republic.

01:20:49.860 I do think that is destructive to our sense of being one nation and agreeing to operate under the principles and laws laid out under the Constitution.

01:20:58.520 Alas, so when people say, you know, the, you know, when the Elizabeth Warrens of the world run around saying the Supreme Court is not legitimate,

01:21:07.960 it's building upon arguing Donald Trump wasn't legitimate and George W. Bush wasn't legitimate and every other argument is not legitimate.

01:21:17.240 Legitimate does not mean popular.

01:21:20.160 The IRS has a legitimate authority to audit you and to check to make sure you're paying enough of your taxes.

01:21:26.220 I don't like the IRS. Please don't audit the IRS if you're watching this.

01:21:29.360 But nonetheless, they have every bit of legal authority.

01:21:33.320 Legitimacy means was it done under the procedures and rules that were set out ahead of time?

01:21:38.480 The Supreme Court, every one of those guys got more than 50 votes to get elected, to be confirmed to the court.

01:21:44.480 Every one of them was nominated by a duly elected Republican president.

01:21:49.460 And one of the things that's really bizarre is you see people arguing, well,

01:21:53.400 George W. Bush doesn't count because he didn't win the popular vote.

01:21:56.540 Right. And in 2000, he did in 2004 and he nominated Roberts and Alito in 2005 and in 2006.

01:22:03.880 So even by this crazy standard that certain, but I should point out, you don't really see

01:22:08.080 liberal law professors or Democratic lawmakers putting forth this argument.

01:22:13.220 It's usually the idiotic progressive yokels on Twitter, the ones who really haven't done much thinking about this.

01:22:19.200 But then the next argument is that, you know, well, if you know, if you're your Supreme Court picks really shouldn't count

01:22:24.940 if you didn't win a majority of the popular vote, I would urge people to go back and check the election results of 1992 and 1996

01:22:31.700 because Bill Clinton only won about 43 percent off the top of my head in 41 percent, maybe in 92.

01:22:39.300 And he won 49 percent in 1996.

01:22:43.300 So Breyer and Ruth Bader Ginsburg, by that standard, shouldn't be considered legitimate Supreme Court.

01:22:48.240 We can play these dumb games, too, if you want to get if you want to play them.

01:22:51.760 They're dumb games. If you get nominated, if you get confirmed by more than 50 votes in the Senate, you're a Supreme Court justice, whether you like it or not.

01:22:58.500 And that's, you know, legitimacy has turned into a new synonym for I don't like this.

01:23:04.220 They're in a panic because they've never seen a court like this.

01:23:07.720 I've never seen a court like this.

01:23:09.120 I was listening to Andy McCarthy's podcast with Rich the other day, and he's he was saying, I've never seen a court like this.

01:23:14.640 And for those of us who are more conservative in terms of our judicial philosophies, I certainly am on that list.

01:23:22.040 This is wonderful. It's wonderful to finally see, you know, more originalists or you can call it textualists,

01:23:28.380 but more right leaning ideological in their judicial philosophy, justices dominating the Supreme Court.

01:23:35.160 And the left isn't used. They don't like it.

01:23:37.600 They're used to being in control and being able to force through policies that they couldn't get at the at the legislative level

01:23:43.440 through the majorities that they've had at the Supreme Court level.

01:23:47.080 And they're in a panic, a full blown panic now that they realize for now, at least those days are over.

01:23:53.540 Yeah, you know, conceivably, could we see justices retire?

01:23:58.220 God forbid. Could we see justices pass away?

01:24:00.400 Yeah, that's a possibility. And maybe you'll see a different dynamic on the court in some years to come.

01:24:04.480 But at least for now, there are at least five.

01:24:07.700 And on, you know, what I would consider good days, six votes for a general, you know, there are different terms for it.

01:24:13.260 Originalist, strict constructionist, good.

01:24:16.820 It's kind of the way conservatives are kind of judges, the way most conservatives put it.

01:24:20.560 But one of the things that and you're right, I think, you know, folks on the left have gotten used to having every institution from academia to Hollywood to media, big corporations.

01:24:36.420 Sooner or later, they can exert enough pressure and push those institutions to the left.

01:24:40.700 I think one of my distinguished colleagues, Jay Nordlinger, said every institution that is not explicitly conservative gradually drifts to the left over the course of its existence.

01:24:49.660 A whole bunch of nonprofit institutions have ended up becoming more explicitly political and to the left.

01:24:55.160 And, you know, even before kind of the woke movement of recent years and decades, I think the very existence of the Supreme Court, the very existence of a role of an institution.

01:25:06.500 They can look at what the legislative branch has done or the legislative branch of states and can look at what the executive branch or the executive branch of states have done and say, you know what, I know this was popular.

01:25:18.300 I know you guys liked doing this.

01:25:20.000 Maybe lots of people liked it.

01:25:21.940 But we've looked at this law and we've looked at the Constitution and we have determined this law does not adhere and, in fact, violates the Constitution.

01:25:30.520 And then you don't get to have this law.

01:25:32.660 This law is officially repealed.

01:25:34.480 No ifs, ands, or buts.

01:25:35.840 And one of the more bizarre moments of last week was seeing New York Governor Kathy Hockel basically sounding like she intended to appeal the Supreme Court decision.

01:25:45.980 There's nothing higher.

01:25:47.000 There's no other place to go.

01:25:48.140 There is no, do not pass go, collect $200.

01:25:51.400 You know, it's over there.

01:25:52.860 And then you saw the likes of Keith Olbermann, who I hope, desperately hope gets the help he needs.

01:25:56.740 And some friend will say to him, Keith, you really need to put down the phone and stuff, who is basically, you and one army, you will never, you know, I'm sure he declared the Supreme Court justice is the worst people in the world.

01:26:09.300 But just, you know, Maxine Waters, too.

01:26:11.980 We're not going to follow.

01:26:13.200 And by the way, if you think you intimidate black women, you what?

01:26:16.340 Wait, how did race get what?

01:26:17.820 OK, you are going to follow.

01:26:20.320 Sorry, but you're following this bizarre sense of, well, we're really mad about this Supreme Court decision.

01:26:25.440 Ergo, we don't have to follow it.

01:26:27.520 No, that is the path to anarchy.

01:26:29.160 Because the moment you start saying, OK, well, adherence to Supreme Court decisions is optional, you basically destroy the rule of law in this country.

01:26:37.460 This turns into, well, we turn into a you can't make me country.

01:26:41.580 And I think that is a road that leads down the line to secession and ultimately the end of the United States of America.

01:26:47.560 You know, the role of the Supreme Court, you don't have to like every decision, but you have to accept it.

01:26:51.800 You have to respect it.

01:26:53.300 You have to say, all right, I'm going to rewrite my law.

01:26:56.060 I'm going to try to make I'm going to look at this decision.

01:26:59.280 I'm going to try to get the same kind of effect, but still have it in in consistent with the Constitution.

01:27:07.200 No, by the way, you know, if anybody thinks that abortion should be a constitutional right, we have an amendment process.

01:27:13.140 You could put that in there for everybody.

01:27:14.580 The Second Amendment is no longer worthy in this era, that it's become a threat in this era.

01:27:20.660 You can try to repeal the Second Amendment.

01:27:23.300 And you could hear my laughing because, yeah, it's not going to fly.

01:27:26.380 It's not going to you're not going to you're not going to win that argument.

01:27:28.500 You're not going to get a lot of states to do that.

01:27:30.260 But you go ahead and you try that.

01:27:31.680 And the thing is, if you're if the policy you want violates the Constitution, you can't have it.

01:27:38.860 I've had this argument with foreigners sometimes that they kind of feel like, well, yes, they don't they're not British.

01:27:43.500 But it's always something that, well, well, why why not?

01:27:45.980 Because the Constitution gets the final say.

01:27:48.060 Now, you have the ability to alter the Constitution.

01:27:49.960 It's not easy.

01:27:51.280 The founders did not want us changing the Constitution willy nilly.

01:27:54.040 And what a whole bunch of folks on the left became accustomed to was this process of not having to change the Constitution, but to actually say, well, the Constitution says we can't ban guns.

01:28:04.700 But we in the District of Columbia, I think people shouldn't have them.

01:28:07.220 So we're going to do that until the Heller decision comes along.

01:28:10.080 The Supreme Court says, well, actually, no.

01:28:12.140 Or that's them trying to take away the rights that are in there.

01:28:16.580 But on the other side, it's OK, so we can't get a constitutional amendment saying that you have a right to abortion, but it's already in there.

01:28:23.340 It's in there.

01:28:24.280 It's living.

01:28:25.280 It's breathing.

01:28:26.100 It's expansive.

01:28:27.400 I could see it.

01:28:28.080 Can't you see it?

01:28:28.760 Sure.

01:28:29.040 There it is.

01:28:30.560 Emanating from a penumbra, as it was famously written.

01:28:33.260 The moment I heard that now, I'm not a lawyer.

01:28:35.520 I didn't go to law school.

01:28:36.420 I'm not going to pretend to be the most sophisticated guy in the world.

01:28:39.800 But the moment you look at Supreme Court justice is saying, like, look, OK, it's not in there, but it emanates.

01:28:45.800 It's like a mist from a penumbra.

01:28:48.960 Penumbra is like a membrane.

01:28:50.400 And so you're looking at it and you're like, are you on LSD?

01:28:53.320 Are you having some sort of spirit-walking vision in the process in which you're coming up with this?

01:28:59.500 If it's in the Constitution, it's in the Constitution.

01:29:01.780 If it's not in the Constitution, it's not in the Constitution.

01:29:04.460 And I think probably the strongest argument for the pro-choice crowd is to say the Constitution is quiet on this,

01:29:11.840 that there is nothing that says much about states one way or the other.

01:29:15.260 I think the definition, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, if you have that right to life, the question is, OK, if murder is a crime, when do you define personhood?

01:29:25.140 When do you find human?

01:29:25.960 That's the heart of this thing.

01:29:27.260 I mean, the right to life is in there, at least the right to not be deprived of it without due process, which is not afforded to anybody who is unborn.

01:29:35.060 That's the policy that they've pursued so far.

01:29:37.240 But let me ask you this, because this is turning into a political thing where there's a push by some of the left to make a national law ensuring a right, a federal right to abortion.

01:29:48.180 We've seen many on the left say that's what they need to do at the congressional level.

01:29:53.400 And then you've got Republicans like Mike Pence out there saying we need a law the other way, outlawing abortion in all 50 states.

01:30:01.020 Now, I would say to you as a lawyer, I don't think they have the right to legislate this.

01:30:04.260 I don't I think they're done.

01:30:05.140 Congress cannot legislate this.

01:30:06.700 And but I but as a political analyst, let me ask you, should they?

01:30:10.900 Because to your point about how control of Congress switches parties, it doesn't stay in the one like why would the Democrats who I get it?

01:30:20.160 They only have half a loaf right now.

01:30:21.940 You know, they had the full loaf before.

01:30:23.500 Now they have half a loaf.

01:30:25.140 Why would they risk that half a loaf?

01:30:26.620 Why would they put a, you know, accept that Congress can legislate this when they know that the Republicans will take control of Congress and the White House again at the same time?

01:30:37.500 And there could be the will to impose the Mike Pence rule as opposed to the Elizabeth Warren AOC rule.

01:30:44.320 Well, the first thing, Megan, is that let's face it, if long term thinking was one of their strengths, they probably wouldn't be in this mess to begin with.

01:30:50.420 So seeing around the corner or the ramifications of their actions really has never been their strong suit.

01:30:57.000 And so I'm sure some of them are thinking, why start now?

01:31:00.240 But as your general sense of is this a good idea?

01:31:02.460 Actually, no, I think I think the Supreme Court in this decision knew what they were doing.

01:31:06.720 And in fact, the part of it, you know, going back to Roe v. Wade in 1973, there are always parts of the country that were going to say, OK, we do not have a lot of, you know, we are not culturally conservative.

01:31:16.480 We are there, you know, this there are not religious institutions preaching that this is an act that is morally equivalent to murder.

01:31:25.020 We're fine with this. And there are always parts of the country which, no, no, no, this is this is basically your state has legalized a form of murder.

01:31:31.920 I am perfectly comfortable living in a country where different states have different rules for this.

01:31:35.920 We have different rules and states have different rules on all kinds of things.

01:31:39.260 And my attitude is that this is this is federalism.

01:31:42.000 The states are supposed to be the laboratories of democracy.

01:31:44.640 And oh, by the way, I think it's entirely possible that some states will enact a sweeping ban of abortion and live with it for two years, four years, six years, some period of time and decide, oh, we don't like this.

01:31:56.440 This is leading to some negative outcomes. We are seeing back alley abortions or something like that.

01:32:01.620 Or the existence of abortion clinics on state lines have made this moot or something.

01:32:06.080 I don't know what's going to happen.

01:32:07.280 But I think part of the thing is that you are allowed to live with the changes of the laws you enact and then you see what happens and then you're allowed to go back and adjust your laws later on.

01:32:16.560 It's possible that certain states that are currently very permissive of abortion, have very little restrictions, may look at the experiences of other states that are enacting these bans, not seeing a disaster and saying, oh, wait, OK, maybe we do want to enact a ban on partial birth abortion.

01:32:30.620 Maybe we do want to enact parental notification for minors or some other things like that.

01:32:35.580 This is what states are supposed to be allowed to do.

01:32:38.140 And oh, by the way, if you think on the idea of, oh, we need federal legislation, having one uniform abortion policy across all 50 states.

01:32:44.960 Look, if you think the country is divided now, if you think our political tensions, our social tensions, our ideological and cultural tensions are really bad now.

01:32:53.180 Try having a Republican Congress enact an abortion ban in California and New York or try having a Democratic Congress and president enact a requirement of taxpayer funding of abortion throughout the South and Midwest.

01:33:05.860 This is basically pouring gasoline on a fire.

01:33:08.100 Now, we've been through we've already been through one civil war, civil war in this country.

01:33:12.080 Part of being in a constitutional republic made up to 50 states is you have to allow other people in other states enact the laws they want.

01:33:21.040 And maybe you think they're terrible laws.

01:33:22.460 Maybe you think they're absolutely terrible.

01:33:23.540 But you know what?

01:33:23.980 You only live in one place in this country at one time.

01:33:26.020 You try to pass the laws in your state that you think are right and see how things work out that way.

01:33:30.720 That's right.

01:33:31.240 That's my sales pitch for federalism.

01:33:32.700 Nobody seems to want to move there.

01:33:34.200 I accept your sales pitch.

01:33:35.340 You've won.

01:33:35.900 OK, congratulations.

01:33:37.980 Jim Garrity, it's always fun talking to you.

01:33:39.800 So my only lamentation about today is I did not get to talk about what happened down in Texas.

01:33:43.380 We'll save that for tomorrow.

01:33:45.200 It's an important story with these migrants coming across thanks to our open borders.

01:33:48.820 And there are real consequences to these decisions.

01:33:50.820 Another subject that Jim's always great on.

01:33:52.820 But we'll put a pin in that till the next time.

01:33:54.640 Thank you for being here.

01:33:56.120 Thank you, Megan.

01:33:57.340 Tomorrow.

01:33:57.960 Very happy that Andrew Klavan of The Daily Wire is back with us.

01:34:01.480 He was so good the last day he was on.

01:34:03.340 And Stephen Miller, the one red steez from Twitter, not the guy who worked for Trump, who we also like.

01:34:08.740 And you're going to love him.

01:34:10.420 Very clever.

01:34:11.040 Very interesting.

01:34:11.620 See you then.

01:34:13.520 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:34:15.640 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - June 28, 2022

Hysteria Over Abortion Next Steps, and Personal Liberty, with Gov. Kristi Noem and Jim Geraghty ｜ Ep. 346

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