The Megyn Kelly Show - Idaho Murders Latest, and 1⧸6 Intel Failures, with Matt Taibbi, Candice DeLong, Brian Entin, and Jonna Spilbor

00:00:00.000 Now streaming on Paramount Plus.

00:00:02.860 Someone is trying to frame us.

00:00:05.160 Until our names are cleared.

00:00:07.700 We're fugitives from interval.

00:00:09.480 Like Bonnie and Clyde with better snacks.

00:00:12.840 Espionage?

00:00:13.560 You still as good a shot as you used to be?

00:00:16.540 Better.

00:00:17.380 Is there love language?

00:00:18.860 We like to walk that fine line between techno-thriller

00:00:21.360 and romantic comedy.

00:00:24.180 We make up our own rules.

00:00:25.940 NCIS Tony and Ziva.

00:00:27.400 Now streaming on Paramount Plus.

00:00:30.760 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:32.540 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:42.260 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:43.860 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Friday.

00:00:46.920 Yay, it's so easy to wake up the kids on Friday, isn't it?

00:00:49.360 It's like, it's Friday.

00:00:51.240 You know, it just gives you an extra pep in your step.

00:00:54.140 You know, you're going to have some good time with your family,

00:00:56.840 your friends, to yourself.

00:00:57.980 You can do TV, marathon, whatever it is that floats your boat.

00:01:01.320 But first, let's get updated on the news.

00:01:03.840 The good, the bad, the ugly, the fun.

00:01:05.900 We got you covered today.

00:01:07.020 We're going to have an in-depth look in a moment

00:01:08.720 at the developments in the Idaho College murders.

00:01:12.460 They have now finally revealed the supporting evidence

00:01:15.420 that led to this guy's arrest.

00:01:17.940 We're going to break down the major revelations.

00:01:19.780 It's from the newly unsealed 19-page affidavit.

00:01:23.440 Very detailed.

00:01:24.920 And we'll speak with a former FBI criminal profiler

00:01:27.300 who helped track down the Unabomber,

00:01:29.500 actually sat with the Unabomber,

00:01:31.200 had personal interactions with the Unabomber

00:01:33.200 after he was arrested, thanks in part to her,

00:01:35.420 about how a suspect like this, this Brian Koberger,

00:01:38.900 could turn out to be a cold-blooded killer.

00:01:40.440 Here's one of the things I want to ask her.

00:01:41.880 How does a guy,

00:01:43.420 credibly accused of going into this apartment

00:01:45.720 in the middle of the night

00:01:46.540 and killing four young, beautiful college students,

00:01:49.400 innocent college students in cold blood,

00:01:52.140 then turn around to his parents at his first hearing

00:01:55.000 when he was there,

00:01:56.060 he was waiving his extradition hearing

00:01:57.780 to go from Pennsylvania back to Idaho.

00:02:01.180 How does he turn to them and say,

00:02:02.500 I love you?

00:02:03.700 Is that possible?

00:02:05.320 Truly, like can a man who murders

00:02:07.700 four innocents like that for no reason

00:02:10.580 actually love anybody?

00:02:12.660 Is that possible?

00:02:14.340 There's so many things I want to get into.

00:02:15.680 The warrant, the supporting affidavit is so detailed.

00:02:19.140 My gosh, we know exactly how they found this guy.

00:02:22.240 Was he a, was he this genius killer

00:02:25.160 or was he a moron?

00:02:27.080 So many things that I want to ask.

00:02:29.040 We're going to talk to this reporter

00:02:30.080 who's been all over it.

00:02:31.140 John's billboard's got the legal angle

00:02:32.560 and then again, the psychological angle.

00:02:37.040 Okay, first though,

00:02:38.720 Kevin McCarthy's 12th bid

00:02:43.840 to become Speaker of the House

00:02:45.880 is about to begin 12th.

00:02:47.020 But 12th time could be a charm.

00:02:49.000 Could be.

00:02:49.800 At this hour, McCarthy believes

00:02:51.120 he is in a better position

00:02:52.440 than he was yesterday at this time

00:02:54.540 and it may be true.

00:02:56.720 Joining me now to discuss the drama

00:02:58.320 on Capitol Hill

00:02:59.480 and his own drama

00:03:00.480 of covering and breaking the Twitter files,

00:03:03.720 Matt Taibbi.

00:03:04.780 Matt runs the substack titled TK News.

00:03:07.680 Matt, welcome back.

00:03:08.380 How you doing?

00:03:09.760 I'm good, Megan.

00:03:11.020 Thank you.

00:03:11.520 Thanks for having me.

00:03:11.920 All right, good.

00:03:12.620 That's good to see you.

00:03:13.500 My gosh, you must like,

00:03:14.660 have you aged like 10 years

00:03:16.980 in the past month

00:03:18.060 or are you rejuvenated

00:03:19.620 and feeling more spry than ever?

00:03:21.880 It's been nice this week.

00:03:23.200 This has been the first week

00:03:24.300 that I've kind of come up

00:03:26.400 for air a little bit.

00:03:28.120 But yeah, it was quite an intense month.

00:03:30.760 Let's put it that way.

00:03:32.160 Gosh, yes.

00:03:32.880 It's not done yet.

00:03:33.980 Not that we know of anyway.

00:03:35.800 OK, well, I hope soon

00:03:38.200 you get the leak of the Facebook files

00:03:40.260 and the Google files.

00:03:42.640 That would be the next best

00:03:44.300 interesting step, right?

00:03:45.480 Because, you know,

00:03:46.820 it's not just Twitter.

00:03:49.040 Yeah, we actually concretely know

00:03:51.140 it's not just Twitter

00:03:52.200 because we've seen,

00:03:54.360 you know, the emails back and forth

00:03:56.320 about how what they called

00:03:57.540 industry meetings

00:03:58.480 with other companies

00:04:00.300 and the FBI and the DHS.

00:04:02.960 And we know what

00:04:04.480 what those companies were.

00:04:06.360 One of them is Facebook

00:04:07.660 that was attending

00:04:08.940 those meetings

00:04:11.140 and getting direction

00:04:11.960 about what kinds of content

00:04:13.980 they should be on the lookout for

00:04:15.560 and things they might want to moderate

00:04:17.500 and that sort of thing.

00:04:19.120 So, yeah,

00:04:20.060 it doesn't stop with Twitter.

00:04:22.320 Let's put it that way.

00:04:23.240 Yeah.

00:04:23.520 And it's it's everything.

00:04:24.740 I'm sure it's not just, quote,

00:04:26.460 disinformation,

00:04:27.400 like the Hunter Biden laptop thing,

00:04:30.140 which we know the FBI

00:04:31.220 was sounding the alarm on falsely.

00:04:33.920 But it's covid suppression.

00:04:36.180 I mean, that's one of the main areas

00:04:38.640 of suppression

00:04:39.340 by these social media giants

00:04:40.700 stifling our conversation

00:04:42.500 in robust terms.

00:04:43.800 Forget what you had to say,

00:04:44.940 what I had to say,

00:04:45.860 what Dr. Martin Kaldorf had to say.

00:04:48.120 One of the things you guys broke

00:04:49.300 of Harvard.

00:04:50.600 This is this is his business,

00:04:52.480 vaccines and infectious diseases.

00:04:54.280 And they stifled him.

00:04:56.080 So if he could be stifled,

00:04:57.400 any of us could be stifled,

00:04:58.640 guaranteed happening everywhere.

00:05:00.720 All right.

00:05:00.960 Updates to follow.

00:05:01.600 We're going to get to the Twitter

00:05:02.260 files in a second.

00:05:03.320 But let's just start on Capitol Hill.

00:05:05.140 I mean, it's really kind of like,

00:05:06.300 I don't know.

00:05:07.520 I'm not I'm not really

00:05:08.680 a political person at heart.

00:05:09.860 I know some people think I am

00:05:11.040 because I covered politics

00:05:11.980 and I tell these debates

00:05:12.820 and that's fine.

00:05:13.680 I think it's good to have

00:05:14.520 some arm's length

00:05:15.200 between you and this thing.

00:05:16.280 You know, I think it's better

00:05:17.540 not to be personally invested.

00:05:18.780 I think you can kind of

00:05:19.440 do a better job.

00:05:20.960 So I'm not like personally moved

00:05:22.580 by anything happening

00:05:23.320 on Capitol Hill.

00:05:24.560 But I do think it's interesting

00:05:25.760 how angry people

00:05:28.280 within the Republican Party are.

00:05:29.800 My God, they're so ticked off

00:05:31.880 at these 12 to 20 lawmakers

00:05:34.340 who won't vote for McCarthy.

00:05:36.460 And then you have people

00:05:37.640 who are like Eric Bolling

00:05:38.680 was on the show yesterday saying,

00:05:39.980 so what?

00:05:40.920 They're raising good objections.

00:05:42.460 Why?

00:05:42.680 Why shouldn't they give him

00:05:43.360 a hard time?

00:05:43.940 Why should they just roll out

00:05:44.700 the red carpet for Kevin McCarthy?

00:05:45.920 He's been a flip flopper.

00:05:46.980 Right.

00:05:47.680 And now it looks like, Matt,

00:05:48.920 they may may have a deal.

00:05:51.420 Um, there is a guy

00:05:54.120 we talked about him

00:05:54.840 the other day.

00:05:55.800 Uh, hold on a second.

00:05:58.100 Uh, okay.

00:05:59.600 Jake Sherman.

00:06:01.080 And, um, he is tweeting out

00:06:03.800 that there is a deal.

00:06:06.120 He claims Kevin McCarthy

00:06:08.340 announces on a GOP call

00:06:10.400 that he and Chip Roy,

00:06:12.220 one of the, one of his detractors

00:06:13.420 on the other side

00:06:13.960 for the House Freedom Caucus,

00:06:15.280 have a deal.

00:06:17.140 Triple siren, he puts on this news.

00:06:19.100 And then there was pushback

00:06:21.220 where McCarthy was saying,

00:06:23.180 get off this call

00:06:24.820 to reporters who are on it.

00:06:26.900 The reports that we have a deal

00:06:27.940 are not true.

00:06:29.040 And then basically Jake

00:06:30.500 is standing by his reporting

00:06:31.460 saying they do have a deal.

00:06:32.800 So if that's true,

00:06:33.740 Kevin McCarthy may be on his way

00:06:35.100 to the speakership.

00:06:36.020 What do you make of all this?

00:06:38.440 I mean, I'm kind of with you

00:06:40.820 that these, these sorts of stories

00:06:43.040 don't really turn me on

00:06:44.880 all that much,

00:06:45.380 but the, the, the furor

00:06:47.100 over this, I find ridiculous.

00:06:50.500 I contrast this with the episode

00:06:53.200 that we've probably all forgotten

00:06:55.480 by now, but it was last fall.

00:06:57.540 There was a group of,

00:06:59.080 a very small group of progressives

00:07:01.780 in the House

00:07:02.580 who sent a, what they called

00:07:05.100 the peace letter

00:07:05.860 to the, to the leaders

00:07:08.520 of their party,

00:07:09.740 which basically suggested

00:07:11.720 that maybe we should keep

00:07:12.900 a line open

00:07:13.720 for negotiations

00:07:15.680 to end the war in Ukraine.

00:07:17.500 And the instant

00:07:18.600 that was leaked,

00:07:19.780 every single member

00:07:20.800 of that coalition

00:07:21.700 caved and self-denounced

00:07:23.760 and apologized for it.

00:07:25.860 And I, you contrast that

00:07:28.040 with this small group

00:07:29.240 of Republicans

00:07:31.220 who are charging

00:07:32.820 the absolute maximum

00:07:34.420 politically

00:07:35.040 to get their votes.

00:07:37.640 And that's exactly

00:07:38.440 what you should do

00:07:39.140 in politics.

00:07:39.700 That's what politics is for.

00:07:41.040 You shouldn't roll over

00:07:42.260 and, and, uh, you know,

00:07:44.440 just give people

00:07:45.540 your support for nothing.

00:07:46.900 You should, you should charge

00:07:48.560 as much as you can for it.

00:07:50.140 Um, that's how this works.

00:07:51.540 And, and to see everybody

00:07:52.720 freaking out about it

00:07:53.800 is, is humorous to me.

00:07:55.860 I mean, it's, it's,

00:07:57.160 it's not a clear, okay,

00:07:58.500 this is the Trump contingent

00:07:59.860 versus the more

00:08:00.740 establishment Republicans.

00:08:01.880 It's, it's not exactly

00:08:02.980 one of those.

00:08:03.480 There are plenty of

00:08:04.120 Trump loyalists,

00:08:05.280 Marjorie Taylor Greene,

00:08:06.800 Elise Stefanik,

00:08:07.600 who are on the side

00:08:08.700 of McCarthy.

00:08:09.220 Um, and then there are

00:08:10.920 some who are in

00:08:11.620 the objecting crew

00:08:12.560 who are kind of

00:08:13.600 ridiculing Trump a bit

00:08:14.660 like Matt Gaetz right now

00:08:15.740 is, he's ripping on Trump,

00:08:17.700 but he's still a Trump

00:08:18.600 kind of bootlicker

00:08:19.800 to be honest.

00:08:20.920 Um, so in any event,

00:08:22.260 it doesn't clearly

00:08:23.320 break down along those lines,

00:08:24.880 but it does have

00:08:27.240 the flavor of establishment

00:08:30.560 chamber of commerce

00:08:31.920 Republicans with the libs

00:08:34.220 being like,

00:08:35.740 this is the proper way forward.

00:08:37.280 And then the insurgent

00:08:39.100 more Trumpy type candidates

00:08:41.000 with the middle finger

00:08:42.080 saying, you know,

00:08:43.620 we're going to do it our way.

00:08:44.980 Now, of course,

00:08:45.320 the ultimate irony is Trump

00:08:46.660 too is backing Kevin McCarthy,

00:08:48.020 but those 12 to 20 are saying

00:08:50.380 we don't really care.

00:08:51.400 You don't, you're,

00:08:51.840 you're not a leader.

00:08:52.560 We're going to do what we want.

00:08:54.740 Uh, this,

00:08:55.760 this is a phenomenon

00:08:56.560 that I've been fascinated by.

00:08:58.380 You know, I covered a lot

00:08:59.740 of presidential campaigns

00:09:00.920 and there's a mindset

00:09:03.080 that I think that infects

00:09:04.560 politicians when they've

00:09:05.640 been in Washington too long

00:09:06.980 where they think that,

00:09:08.800 um, you know,

00:09:10.000 because they're next in line

00:09:11.600 that, you know,

00:09:13.280 when a spot opens up,

00:09:14.560 either it's a committee chair,

00:09:16.000 uh, spot or whether

00:09:18.300 it's time to run for president

00:09:20.100 or time to be the house person

00:09:23.180 who goes and runs

00:09:24.360 for senator in your state.

00:09:25.800 They think that when,

00:09:27.240 you know, because you've,

00:09:29.420 you've served your time in line

00:09:30.820 that, you know,

00:09:31.680 you get the, the job.

00:09:33.440 Well, it doesn't work that way.

00:09:34.360 You actually have to be popular

00:09:35.620 in politics.

00:09:36.220 You have to have backing

00:09:37.380 and they always bypass

00:09:39.540 that part of it.

00:09:40.600 They think that, um,

00:09:42.300 they somehow don't have

00:09:43.340 to be answerable to,

00:09:44.740 to voters.

00:09:45.840 And we've seen this repeatedly

00:09:47.360 since, especially since 2016,

00:09:48.960 where the, I think a lot

00:09:51.160 of the disgust towards both

00:09:52.980 Trump and Bernie Sanders

00:09:54.920 was revulsion by the

00:09:57.380 political establishment

00:09:58.200 that these people hadn't

00:09:59.720 paid their dues yet,

00:10:00.840 that they were getting votes

00:10:01.920 without having gone up

00:10:03.140 through the system.

00:10:04.260 And that's not how it works.

00:10:05.460 You know, voters choose

00:10:06.280 who they choose and,

00:10:07.480 you know, you got to deal

00:10:08.140 with it.

00:10:09.000 Mm hmm.

00:10:10.280 Um, the mainstream media

00:10:12.700 wants to make it all

00:10:13.280 about Trump.

00:10:14.180 Trump came out and said,

00:10:15.740 vote for McCarthy, right?

00:10:17.380 McCarthy went down there

00:10:18.540 and kind of put his arm

00:10:19.720 around Trump.

00:10:20.440 Not long after January 6th.

00:10:21.740 First, he condemned Trump

00:10:22.540 for January 6th.

00:10:23.200 Then he went down to Mar-a-Lago,

00:10:25.080 put his arm around him,

00:10:26.440 you know, sort of helped

00:10:27.740 say he's OK to associate

00:10:30.040 with, notwithstanding Jan 6th.

00:10:32.140 And Trump came out and said,

00:10:33.660 vote for McCarthy, right?

00:10:34.840 Which now he didn't like

00:10:36.200 go full Trump, right?

00:10:38.260 He he's got other tools

00:10:39.820 in his arsenal if he really

00:10:41.120 wants to shame you

00:10:42.040 into voting for Kevin.

00:10:44.300 And he did not unleash those.

00:10:46.100 But still, to pick up any paper

00:10:47.960 or watch any cable news show

00:10:49.240 right now would make you think

00:10:51.160 Trump is a failure.

00:10:53.900 Trump has no more power.

00:10:55.680 Trump is weak.

00:10:56.820 Trump can't do anything.

00:10:57.840 And again, it's like you can

00:11:00.160 see the saliva coming

00:11:02.240 out of their mouths.

00:11:03.820 You know, I think savvy

00:11:05.100 political watchers by this point

00:11:06.540 would be like, all right,

00:11:07.340 you know what?

00:11:08.020 Calm down.

00:11:08.720 Calm down.

00:11:09.240 As Hemmer used to say to me,

00:11:11.140 he used to annoy me.

00:11:12.580 Sim the mer.

00:11:13.940 Sim the mer.

00:11:15.400 The narrative about Trump

00:11:17.480 being dead started.

00:11:20.580 They've done it a million times,

00:11:22.100 but, you know, the most recent

00:11:23.540 incarnation of it began

00:11:25.400 even before the ending

00:11:27.540 of, you know,

00:11:29.740 within an hour of the results

00:11:32.100 starting to become clear

00:11:33.180 on election night last year,

00:11:35.000 you know, that this was a massive

00:11:37.760 final repudiation of Donald Trump.

00:11:40.060 Trump is dead.

00:11:41.220 I had somebody ask me on some show,

00:11:43.640 is Trump dead?

00:11:44.640 I'm like, of course he's not dead.

00:11:46.440 I mean, if you lived

00:11:48.340 through the whole Trump era,

00:11:50.200 I remember pronouncing him

00:11:51.720 making the mistake

00:11:52.660 of writing in print

00:11:53.720 that Trump was dead

00:11:55.180 after the Access Hollywood episode.

00:11:57.960 And, you know,

00:11:59.320 I'm never going to make

00:12:00.140 that mistake again.

00:12:02.380 This guy has a thousand lives

00:12:04.380 politically and, you know,

00:12:07.120 it's wish, you know,

00:12:08.480 this is the whole

00:12:09.220 a dream is a wish

00:12:10.500 that your heart makes thing.

00:12:12.220 People want him to be dead

00:12:13.700 and that's not the same

00:12:15.120 as him being dead.

00:12:16.520 Right.

00:12:16.820 And it's mostly Republicans

00:12:18.100 at this point, right?

00:12:18.960 Because the truth is

00:12:19.960 the left wing would love

00:12:21.300 to see Trump live on,

00:12:22.740 get the nomination

00:12:23.480 and in their estimation,

00:12:25.220 likely lose to candidate Biden,

00:12:27.320 you know, for a reelection.

00:12:29.100 And but it's the Republicans.

00:12:30.900 I've talked to so many Republicans

00:12:32.440 over the Christmas break.

00:12:33.440 I talked to so many

00:12:34.060 well-known Republicans,

00:12:35.580 big money donors

00:12:36.460 who are all basically saying

00:12:38.900 if this is how it has to play out,

00:12:41.420 then this is how it has to play out.

00:12:43.540 Like if Trump,

00:12:44.600 the guy we elevated,

00:12:45.540 the guy we elected,

00:12:46.340 the guy we made president

00:12:47.260 insists on being a spoiler,

00:12:49.800 a third party candidate

00:12:50.980 running again,

00:12:52.720 taking down DeSantis

00:12:53.640 with tweets and whatever,

00:12:55.620 then, you know,

00:12:56.460 this is our bed.

00:12:57.540 We're going to have to lie in it.

00:13:00.520 Yeah, absolutely.

00:13:02.640 But and conversely,

00:13:05.320 the Democrats

00:13:06.080 who might be salivating

00:13:07.720 to take on Trump,

00:13:08.780 I would

00:13:10.200 I would really question

00:13:12.380 that kind of thinking

00:13:13.280 as well, right?

00:13:14.260 Like they

00:13:14.680 people have constantly

00:13:17.140 misjudged

00:13:17.780 this political phenomenon

00:13:18.900 and they've done it

00:13:20.440 over and over and over again.

00:13:22.080 They're either overconfident

00:13:23.540 about their chances

00:13:24.360 against them.

00:13:25.980 But, you know,

00:13:26.900 the proper attitude

00:13:29.440 is just to recognize

00:13:30.560 that this is a

00:13:31.380 this is a lasting

00:13:32.260 political phenomenon

00:13:33.340 that has to be dealt

00:13:35.220 with on its own terms.

00:13:36.280 You know,

00:13:37.300 there's a desire

00:13:38.320 to kind of make it go away

00:13:39.620 on the part of a lot of people.

00:13:41.460 And that's not going to happen,

00:13:43.220 I don't think.

00:13:44.260 But really,

00:13:44.880 if Trump came back

00:13:46.300 after January 6th

00:13:47.660 and he did

00:13:48.580 because the majority

00:13:49.620 of the Republican Party

00:13:50.460 continued to support him

00:13:51.520 after January 6th

00:13:52.620 and continue

00:13:53.280 and actually bought the story

00:13:54.780 that the election was stolen,

00:13:56.260 bought it

00:13:56.820 and continues to buy the majority,

00:13:58.920 then he's not

00:14:00.580 politically killable.

00:14:03.140 You know,

00:14:03.560 like if Jan 6th

00:14:05.340 didn't do it,

00:14:06.280 it's not going to get done.

00:14:07.920 And now we're actually

00:14:09.040 just getting.

00:14:09.520 So, first of all,

00:14:09.940 the January 6th committee

00:14:11.140 has now gone away,

00:14:12.600 right,

00:14:12.840 because the Democrats

00:14:13.300 lost the House

00:14:14.020 and we're getting more

00:14:15.820 and more sort of evidence

00:14:17.060 on the other side.

00:14:18.060 For example,

00:14:19.400 the former Capitol Police chief

00:14:21.720 now has a book,

00:14:24.320 a new book out

00:14:24.920 called Courage Under Fire.

00:14:26.640 He was the chief

00:14:27.500 during the riot

00:14:28.440 and it's got a lengthy

00:14:30.640 minute by minute

00:14:31.340 recounting of the chaos

00:14:32.200 on Jan 6th

00:14:32.880 and he spreads the blame

00:14:33.940 around for this attack.

00:14:34.920 But really,

00:14:35.960 he takes aim

00:14:36.620 at federal intelligence

00:14:38.080 officials

00:14:38.760 who failed to raise

00:14:40.060 alarms before the riot

00:14:41.420 and a military bureaucracy,

00:14:43.000 he said,

00:14:43.560 waited too long

00:14:44.300 to respond.

00:14:45.460 So he says

00:14:46.080 the FBI,

00:14:47.240 Homeland Security,

00:14:48.340 Department of Defense

00:14:49.040 all had intel

00:14:50.000 that should have had

00:14:51.620 them seeing red,

00:14:52.580 but they instead

00:14:53.580 failed to warn us

00:14:54.920 at the Capitol Police,

00:14:55.920 he says.

00:14:56.640 There were people

00:14:57.360 clearly calling

00:14:58.240 for storming the Capitol,

00:14:59.760 but DHS

00:15:00.540 didn't put out a bulletin.

00:15:02.340 DHS didn't even

00:15:03.080 put out a warning.

00:15:04.400 Says the Pentagon

00:15:05.000 was more concerned

00:15:05.660 about optics

00:15:06.560 than quickly deploying

00:15:07.820 the National Guard

00:15:08.480 during the attack

00:15:09.260 and really says

00:15:11.900 like they hamstrung

00:15:13.420 the Capitol Police

00:15:14.280 from keeping

00:15:14.900 the building safe

00:15:15.940 and yet accurately,

00:15:17.920 Matt points out

00:15:18.740 that portion,

00:15:20.200 there was a group

00:15:21.420 on the January 6th

00:15:22.580 committee devoted

00:15:24.060 to looking into

00:15:25.100 the law enforcement

00:15:26.040 response,

00:15:26.560 the intel response,

00:15:27.640 and oh,

00:15:28.980 it got shelved

00:15:29.740 by the end.

00:15:30.640 By the end

00:15:31.580 of the whole process,

00:15:32.960 the leaders

00:15:33.760 didn't have much

00:15:34.320 interest in that.

00:15:35.000 They really just

00:15:35.400 wanted to focus

00:15:35.960 on Trump

00:15:36.520 and even Jan 6th

00:15:38.420 committee people

00:15:38.960 who were on those

00:15:39.440 committees got pissed

00:15:40.200 and went to the papers

00:15:41.460 and started leaking

00:15:42.700 how mad they were

00:15:43.540 that this had been tabled.

00:15:44.620 But the law enforcement

00:15:45.580 piece of this

00:15:46.180 has been totally silenced.

00:15:47.820 And you know what?

00:15:48.240 To this guy's credit,

00:15:49.740 he's speaking out.

00:15:51.020 His name is Stephen Sund

00:15:51.920 about what the truth

00:15:53.840 was there.

00:15:54.320 Yeah,

00:15:56.620 and that's a classic

00:15:58.060 example of why

00:16:00.280 the Trump phenomenon

00:16:01.180 continues because

00:16:02.540 people,

00:16:04.340 as much as

00:16:05.520 Trump's detractors

00:16:07.020 want the focus

00:16:09.420 of the story

00:16:10.020 to be on Trump,

00:16:10.940 the personality,

00:16:12.540 Trump,

00:16:13.120 the supposedly

00:16:13.920 limitless,

00:16:14.960 you know,

00:16:15.400 the person of

00:16:16.060 limitless corruption

00:16:16.980 who does all these

00:16:18.260 terrible things

00:16:19.060 and says all these,

00:16:20.300 you know,

00:16:20.860 unforgivable things.

00:16:22.480 As you know,

00:16:23.860 personally,

00:16:24.940 but the real root

00:16:29.460 of his popularity

00:16:30.880 is the kind of

00:16:33.020 snowballing mistrust

00:16:34.640 that the public has

00:16:35.880 in sort of

00:16:37.900 once popular

00:16:38.680 institutions

00:16:39.420 like the media,

00:16:40.940 like law enforcement,

00:16:42.300 like Congress,

00:16:43.540 like the presidency even.

00:16:45.600 And what Trump does

00:16:47.160 very cannily

00:16:48.500 and, you know,

00:16:50.840 very instinctually

00:16:51.820 is he channels

00:16:54.600 public mistrust

00:16:56.140 about all sorts

00:16:57.260 of institutions

00:16:57.980 into support

00:17:00.780 for him.

00:17:01.300 He says,

00:17:01.620 look,

00:17:01.880 they're lying to you

00:17:02.940 about all these things.

00:17:04.300 They're also lying

00:17:05.060 about me.

00:17:06.280 I'm on your side.

00:17:07.460 They're not on your side.

00:17:09.460 And look,

00:17:10.400 until these institutions

00:17:11.920 address their own

00:17:12.960 mistrust problem,

00:17:14.200 they're not going to

00:17:15.240 solve the Trump problem

00:17:16.400 because those two things

00:17:17.400 are connected

00:17:18.100 and people in Washington

00:17:19.960 have not put

00:17:20.680 those two things together.

00:17:22.420 That's very interesting.

00:17:23.780 And there's no desire.

00:17:25.200 I mean,

00:17:25.420 I, of course,

00:17:26.240 people like DeSantis,

00:17:27.220 I think,

00:17:27.560 would like to see

00:17:28.040 the FBI taken down

00:17:29.000 to the studs.

00:17:30.220 However,

00:17:31.520 he's got a long way

00:17:32.600 to go before he's

00:17:33.280 in a position

00:17:33.680 to make that happen.

00:17:34.580 And on the other side,

00:17:36.660 you've just been through,

00:17:37.880 you know,

00:17:38.300 weeks of this.

00:17:39.360 There's just denialism.

00:17:40.900 There's just,

00:17:41.640 there's denialism

00:17:42.660 that there's a problem.

00:17:43.840 And in fact,

00:17:44.580 to the extent

00:17:45.060 there is an issue,

00:17:46.680 they think it's a plus.

00:17:48.100 They like to see

00:17:49.200 the FBI and DHS

00:17:50.720 and the Pentagon

00:17:51.420 and the CIA

00:17:52.700 acting in concert

00:17:54.600 with the Democratic Party's goals,

00:17:57.460 their definitions

00:17:58.160 of misinformation,

00:17:59.440 disinformation,

00:18:00.220 who should be

00:18:00.940 a criminal target

00:18:02.640 like James O'Keefe

00:18:04.560 for trying to look into

00:18:06.840 whether he should publish

00:18:07.880 Ashley Biden's diary,

00:18:10.080 right?

00:18:10.320 Like growing after

00:18:11.600 raiding a journalist's home

00:18:13.740 because he considered

00:18:15.120 publishing

00:18:15.740 the president's daughter's diary

00:18:17.420 that somebody took

00:18:18.180 from her

00:18:18.460 that she left behind

00:18:19.260 in some drug rehab place.

00:18:21.160 I mean,

00:18:21.420 they like it.

00:18:22.660 They're pro all of it,

00:18:24.060 Matt.

00:18:24.720 So you're right.

00:18:26.040 I mean,

00:18:26.400 I guess having come through this,

00:18:28.340 how bad is that problem?

00:18:29.300 How is there any,

00:18:30.800 is there any daylight

00:18:32.200 between the Democrats

00:18:34.820 and these policies?

00:18:36.120 Could,

00:18:36.300 could they be persuaded

00:18:37.200 to step away

00:18:38.360 in the name of restoring faith

00:18:39.620 in the agencies?

00:18:40.220 You know,

00:18:42.940 I don't think so.

00:18:44.000 I remember,

00:18:45.260 and I've told this story before,

00:18:46.340 but I remember the first times

00:18:48.060 that I covered Trump

00:18:49.620 and being on the riser

00:18:53.020 in the press section.

00:18:54.980 And Trump,

00:18:55.500 this was early in his campaign,

00:18:57.600 he would,

00:18:58.380 he would do things like,

00:18:59.540 oh,

00:18:59.640 look at those bloodsuckers.

00:19:01.100 You know,

00:19:01.260 they hate you.

00:19:02.020 They're lying to you.

00:19:03.220 Like,

00:19:03.700 you know,

00:19:04.220 they pretend they're not

00:19:05.860 interested in my campaign,

00:19:07.340 but look at how far

00:19:08.180 they've come

00:19:08.720 for this event.

00:19:10.620 And people would look at us

00:19:12.040 and boo and hiss.

00:19:13.000 And then,

00:19:13.820 you know,

00:19:14.200 within a couple of weeks

00:19:14.960 they were throwing stuff at us.

00:19:16.220 And then it got more intense

00:19:17.180 after that.

00:19:18.020 And I,

00:19:18.540 I realized right away

00:19:19.840 what the deal was.

00:19:20.660 Like,

00:19:20.940 Trump was identifying

00:19:22.600 the news media

00:19:23.980 as elitist,

00:19:27.900 out of touch,

00:19:29.420 urban liberals

00:19:32.720 for the most part.

00:19:33.700 But more,

00:19:34.280 I think the elitist tag

00:19:36.240 was more important

00:19:36.820 than the liberal tag.

00:19:38.420 And he was succeeding

00:19:39.820 in doing it

00:19:40.700 primarily because

00:19:42.260 it's true.

00:19:43.920 I mean,

00:19:44.440 you know,

00:19:44.940 the people who are

00:19:46.760 in the national news media,

00:19:48.240 I really want to differentiate

00:19:49.200 between that,

00:19:49.880 the national

00:19:50.320 and the local reporters

00:19:52.300 who actually have beats

00:19:53.360 and go to courthouses

00:19:54.300 and do stuff like that.

00:19:55.740 The national news media

00:19:56.820 is just out of touch

00:19:57.740 with how ordinary people live.

00:19:59.520 And they're in denial

00:20:00.560 about that.

00:20:01.200 They don't,

00:20:01.540 they don't under,

00:20:02.360 they don't see it as a problem.

00:20:04.200 And until they recognize

00:20:06.820 that there's going

00:20:08.440 to be that gap

00:20:09.320 you talk about,

00:20:10.140 they're just not going

00:20:10.980 to be able to see

00:20:11.980 the phenomena

00:20:13.080 coming in their way.

00:20:16.000 And I think,

00:20:17.700 I'm beginning to think

00:20:18.420 it's an unbridgeable problem.

00:20:19.800 I mean,

00:20:22.240 certainly with the Democrats

00:20:23.060 in power,

00:20:23.700 it's not going to change.

00:20:25.040 That's,

00:20:25.520 that's just the truth.

00:20:26.640 And we know we've had

00:20:27.620 so many former FBI,

00:20:29.460 CIA officials come out

00:20:30.940 and lament

00:20:31.540 what those agencies

00:20:32.900 have become

00:20:33.780 and how important

00:20:34.740 those agencies are.

00:20:35.920 You know,

00:20:36.180 I mean,

00:20:36.680 later we're going to talk

00:20:37.660 about this Idaho

00:20:38.460 quadruple murder

00:20:39.520 and how the FBI

00:20:41.280 played this critical role

00:20:42.460 in arresting this suspect.

00:20:44.020 We need the FBI.

00:20:44.920 The FBI does a lot

00:20:46.040 of really good

00:20:46.540 and important things.

00:20:47.520 They,

00:20:48.360 they were never meant

00:20:49.880 to be like this

00:20:51.500 domestic intel agency

00:20:53.260 as opposed to,

00:20:54.440 you know,

00:20:55.180 an assistant

00:20:55.700 in fighting crime

00:20:56.820 domestically,

00:20:57.500 like another avenue

00:20:58.780 and branch

00:20:59.300 of fighting crime

00:21:00.160 domestically.

00:21:01.960 Yeah.

00:21:02.640 And I've written

00:21:03.180 a number of stories

00:21:03.980 about this,

00:21:04.600 about how after

00:21:05.780 the church committing

00:21:06.700 here,

00:21:07.300 I'm sorry,

00:21:08.120 the church committee

00:21:08.740 hearings in the 70s,

00:21:09.980 there was sort of

00:21:11.720 dramatic reform

00:21:12.700 of the FBI

00:21:14.120 and CIA

00:21:14.720 and there was

00:21:16.940 a new guidance

00:21:18.440 that you had

00:21:18.980 to have some kind

00:21:19.780 of criminal,

00:21:20.760 hint of criminal activity

00:21:22.240 for the FBI

00:21:23.640 to begin an investigation

00:21:24.760 of a person.

00:21:25.720 Well,

00:21:25.900 after 9-11,

00:21:27.000 they began to roll

00:21:28.420 those guidances back

00:21:30.380 and the FBI

00:21:31.420 reignited

00:21:32.520 sort of the tradition

00:21:34.880 that had begun

00:21:35.540 under Hoover

00:21:36.240 where they were

00:21:37.660 on the one hand

00:21:38.820 a crime fighting agency

00:21:39.940 but that became

00:21:41.080 subordinate

00:21:41.760 to their role

00:21:43.560 as a domestic

00:21:44.560 intelligence agency.

00:21:46.240 that just gathers

00:21:47.700 a lot of information

00:21:48.720 often with no

00:21:50.860 prosecution in sight.

00:21:52.220 They're not necessarily

00:21:53.200 gathering information

00:21:54.960 for a future case.

00:21:57.100 They're just

00:21:57.880 gathering information.

00:21:59.260 I don't think

00:21:59.600 that's a legitimate

00:22:00.520 purpose for them

00:22:01.540 and I don't think

00:22:03.100 the public likes it either.

00:22:04.380 I think they would

00:22:04.920 prefer to see

00:22:05.840 the FBI

00:22:06.740 doing things like

00:22:08.020 arresting

00:22:09.160 that Idaho suspect

00:22:10.020 or chasing

00:22:10.800 child pornographers

00:22:12.800 and doing all these

00:22:13.700 other important things

00:22:14.520 that they need

00:22:15.180 to be doing.

00:22:16.240 Yeah,

00:22:16.440 not investigating

00:22:17.560 parents at school

00:22:18.800 board meetings

00:22:19.620 and not,

00:22:20.800 you know,

00:22:21.480 putting infiltrators

00:22:23.540 in January 6th groups

00:22:24.940 and, you know,

00:22:25.660 trying to incite

00:22:26.940 alleged kidnappings

00:22:28.580 of, you know,

00:22:29.480 Michigan governors

00:22:30.300 and so on, right?

00:22:30.980 Like they've really

00:22:31.800 talked about mission creep.

00:22:33.420 My God.

00:22:34.320 We had a former FBI guy

00:22:35.560 come on and tell us

00:22:36.340 it was, you know,

00:22:36.900 George Tenet

00:22:37.400 under George W. Bush

00:22:38.500 after 9-11

00:22:39.220 and the edict

00:22:40.860 went out.

00:22:41.200 It's very clear

00:22:41.800 intel is the way.

00:22:43.240 That's what W. Bush

00:22:44.620 wanted.

00:22:45.280 That's what the FBI

00:22:46.060 decided they were doing

00:22:46.980 and they've never

00:22:47.840 gotten off of that.

00:22:48.680 You know,

00:22:48.880 we're 21 years

00:22:49.780 post 9-11

00:22:50.620 and they never

00:22:51.660 got off of it

00:22:52.320 and really

00:22:52.720 it's had severe effects

00:22:54.100 and it's been politicized

00:22:55.260 which is, you know,

00:22:56.000 its ultimate sin.

00:22:57.280 All right,

00:22:57.460 so that,

00:22:57.960 let's turn the page

00:22:58.840 and talk about

00:22:59.400 what you've been learning

00:23:00.860 because it does involve

00:23:01.920 the FBI

00:23:02.360 and it involves

00:23:03.600 social media

00:23:04.180 and look,

00:23:04.740 if you're an American,

00:23:06.080 social media affects

00:23:06.780 your life.

00:23:07.500 Even if you're not

00:23:08.180 like all over Twitter,

00:23:09.980 virtually everybody's

00:23:10.920 on Facebook

00:23:12.060 or on TikTok

00:23:13.020 or, you know,

00:23:13.920 on one of these apps

00:23:15.200 for a reason

00:23:16.480 and you may not

00:23:17.720 have any idea

00:23:18.840 how you're being manipulated

00:23:20.480 or how your messaging

00:23:21.660 is being suppressed.

00:23:22.620 You may have,

00:23:23.300 in fact,

00:23:23.600 the odds are

00:23:24.060 you have no idea.

00:23:25.280 So you are truly

00:23:27.000 the first reporter

00:23:27.800 who got a close look

00:23:29.540 at exactly how

00:23:30.860 it has been done

00:23:31.840 over the past couple years

00:23:33.240 at one of the biggest

00:23:34.080 social media giants,

00:23:35.220 Twitter,

00:23:35.480 because Elon Musk

00:23:37.140 chose you

00:23:38.020 to break news on this.

00:23:40.420 He bought Twitter

00:23:40.940 and saw some horrific things

00:23:42.560 and said,

00:23:43.260 my God,

00:23:43.740 who do I trust

00:23:44.440 with this information?

00:23:46.120 So let's just back up

00:23:47.360 to the moment

00:23:47.840 of like you finding out

00:23:49.500 that he had chosen you.

00:23:51.060 Like what,

00:23:51.440 what happened?

00:23:52.380 Did you open a candy bar

00:23:53.380 and see a golden ticket?

00:23:54.440 Like what,

00:23:55.000 how did,

00:23:55.440 how did you find out?

00:23:57.300 It's so funny

00:23:58.020 that my wife

00:23:59.780 made the golden ticket

00:24:00.820 analogy a little while ago too.

00:24:03.320 All good women

00:24:04.580 of the 70s

00:24:05.500 have that in our hearts.

00:24:07.080 Yeah,

00:24:07.700 it's a,

00:24:08.940 it's a good analogy.

00:24:10.180 Look,

00:24:10.860 I,

00:24:12.020 yeah,

00:24:14.900 obviously I was excited.

00:24:16.480 It's been,

00:24:17.840 I've been just like

00:24:18.920 any other American,

00:24:20.020 I think,

00:24:20.520 in the last seven years

00:24:21.700 who's had this

00:24:22.580 creeping suspicion

00:24:24.280 that my perception

00:24:25.360 of reality

00:24:26.160 wasn't quite matching

00:24:27.920 what I was reading

00:24:28.720 in the news.

00:24:29.380 and I work

00:24:29.960 in the news,

00:24:30.640 right?

00:24:30.920 So that this was

00:24:31.860 very upsetting to me

00:24:32.840 that I had this feeling

00:24:34.720 dating back to 2016.

00:24:37.220 I think really

00:24:37.860 the first indication

00:24:39.040 for me

00:24:39.440 was the Russia story

00:24:41.160 where I felt like

00:24:42.740 what I'm seeing

00:24:44.360 is not lining up

00:24:45.300 with what everybody else

00:24:46.420 in the business

00:24:46.980 is reporting.

00:24:48.360 And I started

00:24:49.160 to have this belief

00:24:50.080 that,

00:24:50.620 you know,

00:24:52.380 some,

00:24:52.760 that reality itself

00:24:54.960 was being manipulated

00:24:56.020 in some way.

00:24:57.640 And,

00:24:58.240 you know,

00:24:58.800 the Twitter files

00:25:00.540 have been a revelation

00:25:01.640 and in a way

00:25:02.880 kind of a psychological balm

00:25:04.460 for all of us

00:25:05.240 who've worked on it

00:25:06.740 because it's ratified

00:25:08.700 a lot of what

00:25:09.500 we've suspected

00:25:10.740 over the years.

00:25:12.140 There's two major things

00:25:13.420 that we've learned

00:25:14.180 from the Twitter files

00:25:15.280 so far

00:25:15.740 that we can say

00:25:16.580 with absolute certainty.

00:25:18.460 One is that

00:25:19.440 shadow banning exists.

00:25:21.380 You know,

00:25:21.620 the thing that people denied

00:25:23.340 for years and years

00:25:24.740 and years

00:25:25.240 well,

00:25:27.300 that's absolutely true.

00:25:28.700 You know,

00:25:28.880 in Twitter,

00:25:29.320 they call it

00:25:29.740 visibility filtering

00:25:30.720 and they have

00:25:31.800 almost total control

00:25:34.200 over how much

00:25:35.300 one account

00:25:36.320 can be seen

00:25:37.060 versus another.

00:25:38.120 They can dial a person

00:25:39.080 all the way down

00:25:39.880 to unsearchable

00:25:41.160 and they can amplify

00:25:42.600 the account

00:25:43.240 to being the most

00:25:44.220 watched thing

00:25:45.180 on Twitter

00:25:45.780 and they have

00:25:47.080 a hundred gradations

00:25:48.400 in between.

00:25:49.660 The other big thing

00:25:50.700 is they have

00:25:51.660 an extraordinarily

00:25:53.060 sophisticated

00:25:54.040 system

00:25:55.760 in place

00:25:57.140 with both

00:25:58.340 state and federal

00:25:59.260 government agencies

00:26:00.820 in which

00:26:02.000 they receive

00:26:03.040 mountains

00:26:03.820 of requests

00:26:04.860 for moderation

00:26:05.940 on a daily basis.

00:26:07.840 And they're coming from-

00:26:08.480 Wait, let me pause you there.

00:26:09.100 Let me pause you there

00:26:09.680 because I definitely

00:26:10.320 want to get to all that.

00:26:11.400 On the shadow banning,

00:26:12.700 you guys found a couple

00:26:13.700 of specific examples.

00:26:15.160 I'm trying to think

00:26:15.680 like maybe Charlie Kirk

00:26:16.680 was one.

00:26:17.700 Dan Bongino

00:26:18.300 was definitely one.

00:26:20.000 Was it just those two?

00:26:22.020 Like,

00:26:22.440 or,

00:26:23.340 like,

00:26:24.320 who else has been

00:26:24.860 shadow banned

00:26:25.460 and are we to believe

00:26:26.360 it goes beyond them?

00:26:28.380 Oh, it goes beyond them

00:26:29.360 for sure.

00:26:30.000 I mean,

00:26:30.220 I think they had

00:26:31.000 Jay Bhattacharya,

00:26:32.000 the Stanford doctor,

00:26:32.960 in there.

00:26:33.480 They had

00:26:34.060 Libs of TikTok.

00:26:35.780 Now,

00:26:36.360 one of the

00:26:37.060 problems was

00:26:38.700 we were looking at

00:26:39.740 a very

00:26:42.840 select

00:26:43.800 group of

00:26:44.580 cases

00:26:45.080 that,

00:26:45.880 like,

00:26:45.980 Twitter has this

00:26:47.020 thing

00:26:48.120 they call

00:26:49.080 S-I-P-Dash

00:26:50.340 P-E-S

00:26:51.260 and this is like

00:26:52.440 their Supreme Court

00:26:53.540 of censorship.

00:26:54.960 When they have

00:26:55.680 very difficult cases,

00:26:56.980 these get escalated.

00:26:58.020 So we were looking

00:26:58.560 at those

00:26:59.160 to begin with.

00:27:00.360 But everybody

00:27:01.360 has what

00:27:02.240 they call

00:27:03.540 a P-V-2 page,

00:27:04.840 which is this viewer.

00:27:06.460 And

00:27:06.760 on everybody's page,

00:27:09.200 you might find

00:27:10.040 a little notation

00:27:11.360 that says something

00:27:12.140 like Trends Blacklist

00:27:13.360 on it

00:27:14.800 or do not

00:27:16.380 amplify.

00:27:18.700 And that's

00:27:20.060 unmistakably true.

00:27:22.200 We found

00:27:22.680 that in

00:27:23.640 countless cases.

00:27:25.200 Do you have any

00:27:25.780 idea of the scope

00:27:26.420 of that

00:27:26.820 in terms of the number?

00:27:27.640 Could it have been

00:27:28.300 hundreds of thousands

00:27:29.720 of people who had that?

00:27:30.660 Thousands?

00:27:31.540 Dozens?

00:27:32.260 What's the scope?

00:27:35.260 We haven't done

00:27:36.220 a quantitative analysis

00:27:37.700 yet

00:27:38.140 of it

00:27:38.920 because we don't

00:27:39.940 we don't have

00:27:40.540 the full set

00:27:41.480 of everything

00:27:42.000 in front of us.

00:27:43.500 But anecdotally,

00:27:45.120 I would say

00:27:46.080 that it's

00:27:46.540 an enormous number.

00:27:47.700 I think

00:27:48.920 hundreds of thousands

00:27:50.560 would probably

00:27:51.200 be a very

00:27:51.880 conservative number

00:27:52.860 because

00:27:53.220 what they're doing

00:27:55.180 in many cases

00:27:56.040 is they're

00:27:56.840 a lot of these

00:27:58.420 accounts

00:27:58.840 are being

00:28:00.860 classified

00:28:01.380 in a certain way

00:28:02.280 thanks to

00:28:02.840 automated procedures.

00:28:04.220 So if you happen

00:28:05.480 to fall into

00:28:06.080 a bucket

00:28:06.500 that's been classified

00:28:07.860 do not trend

00:28:08.780 you know

00:28:10.260 you might be

00:28:10.720 one of a thousand

00:28:11.480 people that

00:28:12.160 that gets

00:28:12.720 that designation.

00:28:15.440 I've seen

00:28:16.160 personally

00:28:16.720 that

00:28:17.200 the government

00:28:19.000 will send

00:28:19.460 in requests

00:28:20.180 you know

00:28:21.720 with a list

00:28:22.400 of accounts

00:28:22.840 that are suspect

00:28:23.940 for one reason

00:28:25.260 or another

00:28:25.680 and I'll look

00:28:26.260 them up

00:28:26.620 and they're

00:28:26.880 all suspended.

00:28:28.180 So

00:28:28.360 you know

00:28:30.200 I think

00:28:31.040 the number

00:28:31.400 is enormous

00:28:31.940 and again

00:28:33.300 I can't stress

00:28:34.360 enough

00:28:34.660 the tools

00:28:35.760 they had

00:28:36.340 are

00:28:37.120 highly

00:28:38.200 idiosyncratic

00:28:39.440 like you can

00:28:40.260 be visible

00:28:40.860 to only

00:28:41.420 your followers

00:28:42.080 you can be

00:28:42.560 searched

00:28:42.880 by only

00:28:43.220 your followers

00:28:43.720 you can be

00:28:44.200 retweeted

00:28:44.740 only by

00:28:45.140 certain kinds

00:28:45.620 of people

00:28:46.020 I mean

00:28:46.280 like

00:28:46.480 it's

00:28:47.560 it's

00:28:48.200 not just

00:28:48.660 a couple

00:28:49.000 of things

00:28:49.420 it's

00:28:49.820 it's

00:28:50.300 you know

00:28:50.740 it's

00:28:51.620 it's

00:28:51.760 a huge

00:28:52.300 number

00:28:52.700 of tools

00:28:53.280 that they

00:28:53.560 had.

00:28:54.440 I'm like

00:28:54.940 I've said

00:28:55.240 this before

00:28:55.560 but I have

00:28:55.980 to tell you

00:28:56.240 like

00:28:56.360 I always

00:28:56.940 wondered

00:28:57.240 whether I

00:28:57.660 was on

00:28:57.900 some sort

00:28:58.220 of a list

00:28:58.540 because

00:28:58.900 I had

00:28:59.960 like

00:29:00.120 2.5

00:29:00.660 million

00:29:00.880 Twitter

00:29:01.160 followers

00:29:01.640 and then

00:29:02.320 there was

00:29:02.760 a good

00:29:03.220 I don't

00:29:03.580 know

00:29:03.680 year and

00:29:04.060 a half

00:29:04.520 where I

00:29:05.300 literally

00:29:05.580 like

00:29:05.840 added

00:29:06.180 not one

00:29:06.900 and

00:29:07.880 it made

00:29:08.720 no sense

00:29:09.140 to me

00:29:09.480 because

00:29:09.860 okay fine

00:29:10.820 for part of

00:29:11.240 that I was

00:29:11.520 off the air

00:29:12.140 I was more

00:29:12.600 silent

00:29:13.080 maybe that's

00:29:14.300 but still

00:29:14.800 you'd be

00:29:15.240 adding a

00:29:16.000 few here

00:29:16.620 and there

00:29:17.100 and

00:29:18.220 and

00:29:19.140 then I

00:29:19.980 launched

00:29:20.280 my show

00:29:20.920 and that

00:29:21.260 would definitely

00:29:21.640 be an event

00:29:22.120 where you'd

00:29:22.640 amass more

00:29:23.400 nope

00:29:23.920 but you know

00:29:25.000 you never

00:29:25.280 know

00:29:25.480 you're like

00:29:25.800 okay maybe

00:29:26.180 I've just

00:29:26.500 reached my

00:29:27.060 saturation

00:29:27.500 point on

00:29:28.020 Twitter

00:29:28.200 that's fine

00:29:28.700 too

00:29:28.860 who cares

00:29:29.380 whatever

00:29:29.660 but I've

00:29:30.780 always wondered

00:29:31.500 because as

00:29:32.720 soon as

00:29:33.060 Elon took

00:29:33.540 over

00:29:33.840 boom

00:29:34.620 and I've

00:29:35.260 added almost

00:29:35.860 another

00:29:36.180 100,000

00:29:36.780 right since

00:29:37.220 he just

00:29:37.920 in the past

00:29:38.360 few months

00:29:38.740 so that's

00:29:40.200 anecdotal

00:29:40.740 could mean

00:29:41.140 absolutely

00:29:41.480 nothing

00:29:41.900 right

00:29:42.320 but I'm

00:29:43.180 sure I've

00:29:43.840 read I've

00:29:44.340 seen on

00:29:44.660 Twitter

00:29:44.820 there are a

00:29:45.120 lot of

00:29:45.300 people just

00:29:45.740 like me

00:29:46.060 they're all

00:29:46.720 on the

00:29:47.380 right or

00:29:47.940 perceived

00:29:48.500 as on

00:29:48.880 the right

00:29:49.240 who have

00:29:50.800 had the

00:29:51.220 same quote

00:29:51.660 problem

00:29:52.120 yeah I

00:29:53.980 mean there's

00:29:54.840 some people on

00:29:55.300 the other

00:29:55.520 side too

00:29:55.980 for sure

00:29:56.500 I mean

00:29:57.060 there's

00:29:57.560 Julian Assange

00:29:58.380 there's

00:29:59.340 you know

00:30:00.040 the world

00:30:00.920 socialist

00:30:01.360 website

00:30:01.820 believe it

00:30:02.220 or not

00:30:02.540 had some

00:30:03.220 issues

00:30:03.560 but yeah

00:30:06.240 absolutely

00:30:07.100 there are

00:30:08.360 a lot of

00:30:08.740 people who

00:30:09.260 had that

00:30:09.900 problem

00:30:10.280 there are

00:30:11.040 a lot of

00:30:11.360 people who've

00:30:11.720 had the

00:30:12.340 same experience

00:30:12.960 that you

00:30:13.220 had I

00:30:13.520 had that

00:30:13.860 experience

00:30:14.360 where my

00:30:15.640 follower count

00:30:16.340 was basically

00:30:16.880 frozen on

00:30:17.980 a number

00:30:18.380 for a year

00:30:19.460 and a half

00:30:19.980 right

00:30:20.860 I couldn't

00:30:21.280 why like

00:30:22.600 yeah I

00:30:22.860 mean maybe

00:30:24.380 I'm unpopular

00:30:24.940 that's fine

00:30:25.580 if that's

00:30:26.600 the case

00:30:27.000 but it's

00:30:27.540 it seemed

00:30:28.200 unnatural

00:30:28.600 for sure

00:30:29.180 yes

00:30:29.600 most of us

00:30:30.180 are too

00:30:30.460 humble

00:30:31.260 most of us

00:30:32.540 are too

00:30:32.760 humble to

00:30:33.300 blame anyone

00:30:33.820 other than

00:30:34.200 ourselves

00:30:34.600 right it's

00:30:35.040 like oh I

00:30:35.400 guess people

00:30:35.720 aren't interested

00:30:36.160 fine okay

00:30:36.800 but now

00:30:38.400 like with it

00:30:39.020 shifting so

00:30:40.080 rapidly once

00:30:40.960 Elon took

00:30:41.520 over you're

00:30:42.000 like okay

00:30:42.740 this is as

00:30:44.040 my daughter

00:30:44.400 would say

00:30:44.800 sussy

00:30:45.400 baka

00:30:46.000 okay so

00:30:46.600 that brings

00:30:47.080 us to

00:30:47.840 point two

00:30:48.560 which is the

00:30:49.320 coordination

00:30:49.680 with the law

00:30:50.220 enforcement

00:30:50.540 with the intel

00:30:51.460 agencies which is

00:30:52.440 far more

00:30:53.000 problematic I mean

00:30:53.900 frankly it's like

00:30:54.480 okay your ego

00:30:55.160 gets dinged up

00:30:56.280 when they shadow

00:30:56.800 ban you and they

00:30:57.300 don't disclose it

00:30:58.000 and they say they

00:30:58.480 don't do it so

00:30:59.040 those are problems

00:31:00.100 but coordination

00:31:01.220 with the government

00:31:02.060 on suppressing

00:31:02.820 first amendment

00:31:03.460 speech is something

00:31:04.400 very very different

00:31:05.400 and Matt knows

00:31:06.880 all about that

00:31:08.280 he's neck deep in it

00:31:09.260 we're going to talk

00:31:10.100 to him about that

00:31:10.620 after this very quick

00:31:11.540 break stand by

00:31:12.140 Matt Taibbi

00:31:12.680 we continue with him

00:31:13.820 in just a couple

00:31:14.420 of minutes

00:31:14.780 so Matt you

00:31:19.320 were getting to

00:31:19.760 point number two

00:31:20.740 before I stopped

00:31:21.580 you just to pause

00:31:22.340 on shadow

00:31:22.960 banning in terms

00:31:24.600 of the main

00:31:25.020 things you learned

00:31:25.840 in your twitter

00:31:26.460 file reporting

00:31:27.280 so go ahead

00:31:27.780 on point number

00:31:28.280 two

00:31:28.520 yeah so

00:31:29.300 very early

00:31:30.220 in the process

00:31:30.900 when we were

00:31:31.680 looking at

00:31:32.860 the period

00:31:35.160 before the

00:31:35.740 election in

00:31:36.300 2020 we

00:31:36.940 started to

00:31:37.400 see slack

00:31:38.120 communications

00:31:39.740 between twitter

00:31:41.780 employees

00:31:42.300 and they would

00:31:43.560 say things like

00:31:44.320 DHS flags this

00:31:45.700 or the FBI

00:31:46.420 flags that

00:31:47.260 and then there

00:31:48.620 would be a list

00:31:49.220 of accounts

00:31:49.820 and you know

00:31:52.500 we raised eyebrows

00:31:53.580 we're like

00:31:53.920 you know

00:31:54.600 obviously we'd

00:31:55.480 heard rumors

00:31:56.960 that that might

00:31:58.280 be the case

00:31:58.860 but we didn't

00:31:59.800 know for sure

00:32:00.440 what that meant

00:32:01.220 and then we

00:32:03.120 started digging

00:32:03.740 and before long

00:32:05.540 we ended up

00:32:06.220 finding that

00:32:07.580 there's an

00:32:09.200 incredibly elaborate

00:32:10.700 formalized

00:32:11.380 system

00:32:12.780 by which

00:32:15.100 not just

00:32:16.840 Facebook

00:32:17.260 but not just

00:32:18.280 Twitter

00:32:18.480 but a whole

00:32:19.320 series of

00:32:19.940 tech companies

00:32:20.580 is in contact

00:32:22.720 with the

00:32:23.560 federal government

00:32:24.420 actually both

00:32:25.960 the FBI

00:32:26.860 and DHS

00:32:27.720 and they're

00:32:29.440 receiving

00:32:30.060 requests for

00:32:31.120 moderation

00:32:31.660 in bulk

00:32:32.640 from those

00:32:34.060 agencies

00:32:34.820 in Twitter's

00:32:37.240 case

00:32:37.540 the setup

00:32:38.180 basically

00:32:39.220 is that

00:32:40.100 requests

00:32:40.960 requests that

00:32:41.180 come up

00:32:41.540 through the

00:32:41.900 states

00:32:42.220 go through

00:32:42.660 DHS

00:32:43.440 through a

00:32:44.900 system

00:32:45.200 called

00:32:45.460 HISN

00:32:46.360 and

00:32:47.240 the FBI

00:32:49.400 will pass

00:32:50.200 on requests

00:32:51.000 that come

00:32:51.460 from the

00:32:51.820 federal government

00:32:52.500 and that

00:32:52.880 could be

00:32:53.160 anything

00:32:53.540 from HHS

00:32:54.480 to Treasury

00:32:55.280 to what

00:32:57.040 they call

00:32:57.420 other government

00:32:58.020 agencies

00:32:58.620 which I think

00:32:59.480 is the CIA

00:33:00.260 is definitely

00:33:02.100 listening in

00:33:03.040 to meetings

00:33:04.240 with these

00:33:04.780 companies

00:33:05.160 we've seen

00:33:05.600 evidence of

00:33:06.120 that

00:33:06.360 so

00:33:07.340 it's

00:33:08.500 incredible

00:33:09.260 like

00:33:09.720 I was

00:33:11.060 really blown

00:33:12.660 away by

00:33:13.300 the breadth

00:33:14.040 of this

00:33:14.660 program

00:33:15.120 I thought

00:33:16.100 it might be

00:33:16.540 much more

00:33:17.380 informal

00:33:17.820 than it is

00:33:18.440 it's not

00:33:18.960 it's quite

00:33:19.760 formal

00:33:20.200 alright

00:33:20.720 so what's

00:33:21.120 the response

00:33:21.620 to

00:33:21.960 you know

00:33:22.380 there's no

00:33:23.080 question

00:33:23.360 that

00:33:23.600 for example

00:33:24.220 Russia

00:33:24.700 did interfere

00:33:26.300 with the

00:33:26.620 2016

00:33:27.040 election

00:33:27.860 not in the

00:33:28.400 way the

00:33:28.640 Democrats

00:33:29.000 allege

00:33:29.420 but

00:33:29.780 they

00:33:30.800 definitely

00:33:31.100 had

00:33:31.360 bots

00:33:31.880 purveying

00:33:32.620 disinformation

00:33:33.720 misinformation

00:33:34.140 online

00:33:34.880 they'd come

00:33:35.380 up with

00:33:35.620 fake news

00:33:36.060 stories

00:33:36.480 which then

00:33:36.900 the bots

00:33:37.240 would circulate

00:33:37.840 so it would

00:33:38.140 get in front

00:33:38.560 of certain

00:33:38.900 viewers

00:33:39.320 and all

00:33:40.800 they really

00:33:41.080 wanted to

00:33:41.340 do was

00:33:41.560 sow discord

00:33:42.100 they put

00:33:42.740 out pro

00:33:43.180 BLM

00:33:43.620 stuff

00:33:43.960 and anti

00:33:44.460 BLM

00:33:44.900 stuff

00:33:45.280 and then

00:33:45.720 watch us

00:33:46.040 fight

00:33:46.280 I mean

00:33:46.640 that was

00:33:47.220 their

00:33:47.440 MO

00:33:47.800 and so

00:33:48.880 the FBI

00:33:49.440 had

00:33:50.260 I think

00:33:52.400 we might

00:33:52.880 need to

00:33:53.580 recalibrate

00:33:54.160 how much

00:33:54.620 of that

00:33:55.040 turned out

00:33:55.620 to be

00:33:55.880 true

00:33:56.180 it might

00:33:57.180 be a

00:33:57.440 much smaller

00:33:57.980 program

00:33:58.380 than we've

00:33:58.980 been told

00:33:59.380 but anyway

00:33:59.760 okay

00:34:00.100 so but

00:34:01.080 they did

00:34:01.380 it

00:34:01.560 and the

00:34:01.860 FBI

00:34:02.160 was tasked

00:34:02.800 with

00:34:03.100 looking at

00:34:04.540 that and

00:34:04.940 figuring out

00:34:05.440 how are they

00:34:05.840 doing that

00:34:06.420 what's real

00:34:06.980 what's not

00:34:07.360 real

00:34:07.600 what do we

00:34:07.920 correct

00:34:08.160 so this

00:34:09.240 is all

00:34:09.620 along the

00:34:10.080 lines of

00:34:10.480 their defense

00:34:11.320 you know

00:34:12.000 we we have

00:34:12.880 a real role

00:34:13.700 in preventing

00:34:14.760 the actual

00:34:15.560 bad guys

00:34:16.320 from messing

00:34:17.400 with our

00:34:17.940 internal dialogue

00:34:18.880 as Americans

00:34:19.520 and we're

00:34:21.300 living up to

00:34:21.800 that role

00:34:22.180 right

00:34:22.540 that's their

00:34:22.980 defense

00:34:23.160 like what

00:34:23.520 why wouldn't

00:34:24.420 we meet

00:34:24.740 with Facebook

00:34:25.240 and Twitter

00:34:25.580 so we could

00:34:25.940 prevent

00:34:26.380 what happened

00:34:27.160 in 16

00:34:27.640 from ever

00:34:28.680 happening

00:34:29.020 again

00:34:29.340 well the

00:34:31.680 I give a

00:34:32.960 couple of

00:34:33.340 answers to

00:34:33.780 that but

00:34:34.080 the first

00:34:34.980 one is

00:34:35.500 that internally

00:34:36.240 we have

00:34:38.760 enormous

00:34:40.260 quantity of

00:34:41.020 evidence

00:34:41.480 of communications

00:34:42.600 between Twitter

00:34:43.500 personnel

00:34:44.860 who've been

00:34:46.160 passed along

00:34:46.940 lists

00:34:47.420 where the

00:34:48.740 government

00:34:49.040 asserts that

00:34:49.780 this or that

00:34:50.340 account is

00:34:51.380 a Russia

00:34:52.820 linked account

00:34:53.500 or an Iran

00:34:54.620 linked account

00:34:55.320 or a Chinese

00:34:56.500 linked account

00:34:57.220 and they're

00:34:58.320 saying we're

00:34:58.960 just not

00:34:59.300 seeing it

00:34:59.960 you know

00:35:00.280 like over

00:35:00.720 and over

00:35:01.060 again

00:35:01.520 there's a

00:35:03.280 very significant

00:35:04.220 email that

00:35:05.020 I found

00:35:05.800 where the

00:35:07.340 State Department

00:35:08.080 had passed

00:35:08.660 on a series

00:35:09.600 of accounts

00:35:10.060 that it

00:35:10.460 asserted

00:35:11.900 were controlled

00:35:12.900 by the

00:35:13.280 GRU

00:35:13.980 and there's

00:35:15.180 a Twitter

00:35:15.560 executive

00:35:16.080 who incidentally

00:35:17.360 is a former

00:35:18.060 CIA person

00:35:19.620 himself

00:35:20.240 and he's

00:35:22.660 writing an

00:35:23.060 email

00:35:23.360 and saying

00:35:24.020 look

00:35:24.480 I know

00:35:25.180 this account

00:35:25.920 my

00:35:26.640 attitude

00:35:28.000 in the past

00:35:29.480 has always

00:35:29.900 been to

00:35:30.920 wait for

00:35:31.280 more evidence

00:35:31.980 on that

00:35:32.640 but he says

00:35:33.740 our window

00:35:34.200 on that

00:35:34.640 is closing

00:35:35.320 our government

00:35:36.300 partners

00:35:36.940 he uses

00:35:37.340 that term

00:35:37.840 our government

00:35:38.400 partners

00:35:38.980 have become

00:35:40.140 more aggressive

00:35:40.900 and so

00:35:42.000 essentially

00:35:42.440 what he's

00:35:43.100 saying is

00:35:43.860 if they say

00:35:44.920 it's

00:35:45.740 Russia linked

00:35:47.000 we have to

00:35:47.740 agree

00:35:48.140 that it's

00:35:48.700 Russia linked

00:35:49.200 even if

00:35:49.680 we're not

00:35:50.100 seeing the

00:35:50.600 evidence

00:35:51.040 and just

00:35:52.580 quickly

00:35:52.920 Twitter

00:35:53.900 had a

00:35:54.300 formal

00:35:54.780 internal

00:35:55.460 guidance

00:35:56.180 where they

00:35:57.140 said

00:35:57.520 publicly

00:35:58.100 we are

00:35:58.920 going to

00:35:59.360 assert

00:35:59.780 that we

00:36:00.120 only

00:36:00.400 remove

00:36:00.860 content

00:36:01.380 at our

00:36:02.420 sole

00:36:02.740 discretion

00:36:03.280 privately

00:36:04.460 we will

00:36:05.120 remove

00:36:05.400 any

00:36:06.760 content

00:36:07.280 that the

00:36:07.800 United States

00:36:08.400 intelligence

00:36:08.860 agency

00:36:09.500 identifies

00:36:10.180 as a

00:36:11.000 foreign

00:36:11.240 state

00:36:11.600 actor

00:36:12.000 committing

00:36:12.520 cyber

00:36:13.300 operations

00:36:14.160 so

00:36:15.000 that is

00:36:15.520 in writing

00:36:16.000 and

00:36:17.280 so we

00:36:18.160 now know

00:36:18.680 that

00:36:18.860 for a

00:36:19.580 fact

00:36:19.840 that they

00:36:20.140 do

00:36:20.320 that

00:36:20.620 and

00:36:21.440 I

00:36:22.060 think

00:36:22.380 I

00:36:22.660 think

00:36:23.040 some

00:36:23.680 of

00:36:23.840 those

00:36:24.120 stories

00:36:25.080 about

00:36:25.360 foreign

00:36:25.680 influence

00:36:26.220 from what

00:36:27.520 we've

00:36:27.820 seen

00:36:28.180 have been

00:36:29.000 significantly

00:36:29.580 overblown

00:36:30.260 wow

00:36:31.320 wow

00:36:32.220 I mean

00:36:32.560 it's

00:36:32.780 crazy

00:36:33.140 to have

00:36:33.740 you know

00:36:34.380 the dress

00:36:34.880 was lifted

00:36:35.340 and you

00:36:35.580 got to

00:36:35.820 see all

00:36:36.140 the things

00:36:36.620 and the

00:36:37.700 things

00:36:37.940 were not

00:36:38.300 pretty

00:36:38.640 they're

00:36:38.940 not

00:36:39.160 pretty

00:36:39.540 so

00:36:40.340 where

00:36:40.620 after having

00:36:41.300 looked at

00:36:41.740 all this

00:36:42.300 and you're

00:36:42.580 in the

00:36:42.780 midst of

00:36:43.100 it as

00:36:43.320 you point

00:36:43.640 out

00:36:43.760 it's

00:36:43.900 not

00:36:44.040 done

00:36:44.420 like

00:36:45.900 where

00:36:46.120 do

00:36:46.220 you

00:36:46.340 stand

00:36:46.620 on

00:36:46.820 it

00:36:46.920 how

00:36:47.080 has

00:36:47.180 it

00:36:47.280 changed

00:36:47.620 you

00:36:47.760 were

00:36:48.240 already

00:36:48.720 suspicious

00:36:49.700 of

00:36:50.400 an

00:36:51.140 overbearing

00:36:51.540 government

00:36:51.920 getting too

00:36:52.380 involved

00:36:52.720 in private

00:36:53.120 affairs

00:36:53.520 and silencing

00:36:54.220 speech

00:36:54.640 and working

00:36:55.080 behind the

00:36:55.800 scenes

00:36:55.980 to do

00:36:56.260 things

00:36:56.500 we

00:36:56.620 didn't

00:36:56.780 want

00:36:56.960 them

00:36:57.080 to

00:36:57.240 do

00:36:57.500 so

00:36:58.320 where

00:36:58.500 do

00:36:58.600 you

00:36:58.700 stand

00:36:58.920 now

00:36:59.160 how

00:36:59.320 does

00:36:59.440 Matt

00:36:59.660 Taibbi

00:36:59.960 look

00:37:00.200 at

00:37:00.300 the

00:37:00.400 government

00:37:00.660 the

00:37:00.860 world

00:37:01.100 in

00:37:01.240 America

00:37:01.880 after

00:37:02.260 seeing

00:37:02.580 all

00:37:02.720 this

00:37:02.840 stuff

00:37:03.100 well

00:37:05.480 I

00:37:05.660 think

00:37:06.200 the

00:37:06.800 Twitter

00:37:07.840 heading

00:37:09.160 into

00:37:09.620 2016

00:37:10.680 and

00:37:11.160 let's

00:37:11.380 not forget

00:37:11.940 Donald

00:37:13.420 Trump's

00:37:14.240 ability

00:37:15.060 and his

00:37:15.760 mastery

00:37:16.340 of

00:37:16.620 Twitter

00:37:16.900 was a

00:37:17.440 crucial

00:37:17.860 element

00:37:18.580 in winning

00:37:19.760 the election

00:37:20.340 that year

00:37:21.060 my sense

00:37:23.820 of the

00:37:24.940 meta story

00:37:25.640 behind the

00:37:26.240 Twitter files

00:37:26.960 is that

00:37:28.300 not just

00:37:30.300 the United

00:37:30.660 States

00:37:30.980 but governments

00:37:31.780 like the

00:37:32.380 EU

00:37:32.800 and some

00:37:33.660 others

00:37:34.120 realized

00:37:35.180 that

00:37:35.760 social media

00:37:37.200 was a problem

00:37:38.460 that they had

00:37:39.040 to get under

00:37:39.500 control

00:37:40.040 and what

00:37:41.220 we're seeing

00:37:41.820 in these

00:37:42.220 files

00:37:42.640 is a

00:37:43.440 rather

00:37:43.860 extensive

00:37:44.460 effort

00:37:45.100 and an

00:37:46.560 insistent

00:37:47.220 effort

00:37:47.660 to

00:37:48.740 basically

00:37:51.420 take

00:37:51.960 over

00:37:52.500 and

00:37:54.060 appropriate

00:37:54.760 the

00:37:55.620 moderation

00:37:56.220 and content

00:37:57.480 review

00:37:57.900 procedures

00:37:58.540 of all

00:37:59.580 of these

00:37:59.820 private

00:38:00.180 companies

00:38:00.820 because

00:38:02.160 instead of

00:38:03.320 being

00:38:03.820 a social

00:38:05.040 media

00:38:05.340 platform

00:38:05.920 that is

00:38:06.460 anarchic

00:38:07.120 in nature

00:38:07.700 and allows

00:38:08.720 political

00:38:09.900 movements

00:38:10.380 to coalesce

00:38:11.120 quickly

00:38:11.540 and

00:38:13.040 outside

00:38:13.940 of government

00:38:14.420 control

00:38:15.020 they're

00:38:16.040 attempting

00:38:16.440 to turn

00:38:16.860 it into

00:38:17.340 an instrument

00:38:18.080 of government

00:38:18.660 control

00:38:19.180 and I think

00:38:19.980 that's quite

00:38:20.480 scary

00:38:20.960 and people

00:38:21.820 need to

00:38:22.460 this issue

00:38:24.080 needs to be

00:38:24.620 raised

00:38:25.020 at a high

00:38:26.180 level

00:38:26.560 I mean

00:38:28.400 I don't know

00:38:29.060 how it's going

00:38:29.360 to work out

00:38:29.760 for Elon

00:38:30.140 financially

00:38:30.940 but

00:38:31.980 just these

00:38:33.020 revelations

00:38:33.680 alone

00:38:34.320 to me

00:38:35.600 easy for me

00:38:36.280 to say

00:38:36.680 we're worth

00:38:37.560 the price

00:38:38.100 he paid

00:38:38.620 he did

00:38:39.300 America

00:38:40.200 a massive

00:38:41.240 service

00:38:41.880 and thank

00:38:43.200 you for

00:38:43.600 being part

00:38:44.240 of exposing

00:38:44.980 the details

00:38:45.920 on it

00:38:46.260 Matt Taibbi

00:38:46.740 always a pleasure

00:38:47.400 sir

00:38:47.740 we'll look

00:38:48.040 forward to

00:38:48.300 the next

00:38:48.560 edition

00:38:49.000 thank you

00:38:50.140 Megan

00:38:50.360 thanks for

00:38:50.820 having me

00:38:51.100 on

00:38:51.320 all right

00:38:52.400 and don't

00:38:53.700 forget

00:38:53.900 you can

00:38:54.520 follow Matt

00:38:55.000 at TK

00:38:56.120 News

00:38:56.400 on Substack

00:38:57.000 coming up

00:38:57.880 I'm going

00:38:58.140 to answer

00:38:58.440 some of

00:38:58.820 your questions

00:38:59.840 in the

00:39:00.340 MK

00:39:00.800 mailbag

00:39:01.700 you can

00:39:02.660 mail me

00:39:03.760 now

00:39:04.320 at

00:39:04.700 Megan

00:39:05.400 at

00:39:07.180 Megan

00:39:07.840 Kelly

00:39:08.100 dot com

00:39:08.740 that's

00:39:09.360 where you

00:39:09.540 can also

00:39:09.860 sign up

00:39:10.280 for our

00:39:10.620 American

00:39:11.340 News

00:39:12.020 Minute

00:39:12.320 it's

00:39:12.940 going to

00:39:13.080 go out

00:39:13.280 in about

00:39:13.480 two hours

00:39:14.300 and it's

00:39:15.580 basically

00:39:16.000 highlights

00:39:16.460 of the

00:39:16.740 entire

00:39:17.080 week

00:39:17.700 in 60

00:39:18.620 seconds

00:39:19.060 or less

00:39:20.060 and then

00:39:20.780 if you

00:39:20.960 want to

00:39:21.200 keep

00:39:21.440 reading

00:39:21.740 after that

00:39:22.180 you'll

00:39:22.340 see some

00:39:22.640 fun

00:39:22.900 highlights

00:39:23.220 from the

00:39:23.560 show

00:39:23.920 over the

00:39:24.340 course

00:39:24.500 of the

00:39:24.720 week

00:39:25.040 some

00:39:26.000 more

00:39:26.180 in-depth

00:39:26.560 pieces

00:39:27.000 if you're

00:39:27.340 interested

00:39:27.600 in that

00:39:28.100 and of

00:39:28.740 course

00:39:28.860 we've

00:39:29.060 always

00:39:29.220 got our

00:39:29.520 update

00:39:29.860 on

00:39:30.100 Strudwick

00:39:30.700 wait

00:39:31.440 until

00:39:31.680 you

00:39:31.920 hear

00:39:32.240 what

00:39:32.440 he

00:39:32.600 did

00:39:32.920 when

00:39:33.120 we

00:39:33.280 tried

00:39:33.620 to

00:39:33.820 innocently

00:39:34.320 sit

00:39:34.600 down

00:39:35.000 for

00:39:35.500 chicken

00:39:36.000 tikka

00:39:36.460 masala

00:39:37.080 two

00:39:37.880 nights

00:39:38.500 ago

00:39:38.980 go to

00:39:39.600 megankelly.com

00:39:40.420 to check

00:39:40.740 it out

00:39:41.040 and don't

00:39:41.500 forget folks

00:39:41.940 you can

00:39:42.220 follow us

00:39:42.640 live on

00:39:43.180 Sirius XM

00:39:43.840 Triumph

00:39:44.360 Channel 111

00:39:45.000 every weekday

00:39:45.640 at noon

00:39:45.900 east

00:39:46.660 go ahead

00:39:47.700 and check

00:39:47.940 us out

00:39:48.160 on

00:39:48.280 youtube.com

00:39:48.980 slash

00:39:49.220 megankelly

00:39:49.700 we just

00:39:50.080 topped

00:39:50.460 the 700,000

00:39:51.740 follower

00:39:52.320 mark

00:39:52.740 thank you

00:39:53.140 guys

00:39:53.360 for that

00:39:53.820 that's

00:39:54.500 thanks to

00:39:54.780 all of

00:39:55.040 you

00:39:55.260 and I'm

00:39:55.700 grateful

00:39:56.040 audio

00:39:56.860 podcast

00:39:57.340 of course

00:39:57.700 wherever

00:39:57.960 you get

00:39:58.220 your

00:39:58.360 podcasts

00:39:58.820 for free

00:39:59.720 and check

00:40:00.520 out our

00:40:00.800 archives

00:40:01.220 while you're

00:40:01.620 nosing around

00:40:02.200 over there

00:40:02.500 now more

00:40:02.840 than

00:40:03.000 465

00:40:04.180 shows

00:40:05.040 it's time

00:40:09.360 for the

00:40:09.640 first

00:40:09.940 mk

00:40:10.520 mailbag

00:40:11.160 of

00:40:11.320 2023

00:40:11.840 where

00:40:12.340 I

00:40:12.660 answer

00:40:13.280 your

00:40:13.820 questions

00:40:14.420 or just

00:40:14.780 read

00:40:15.180 your

00:40:15.380 emails

00:40:15.780 that

00:40:15.980 you

00:40:16.140 have

00:40:16.300 sent

00:40:16.580 to

00:40:16.720 me

00:40:16.960 at

00:40:17.640 megan

00:40:18.460 megyn

00:40:19.980 at

00:40:20.560 megankelly.com

00:40:22.420 love this

00:40:22.960 and I

00:40:23.260 love

00:40:23.720 love

00:40:24.000 love

00:40:24.260 getting

00:40:24.560 your

00:40:25.120 mail

00:40:25.440 so

00:40:26.320 please

00:40:26.560 continue

00:40:27.040 sending

00:40:27.400 it

00:40:27.560 because

00:40:27.700 it's

00:40:27.900 become

00:40:28.160 the

00:40:28.320 main

00:40:28.540 place

00:40:28.820 where

00:40:28.940 I

00:40:29.040 get

00:40:29.200 your

00:40:29.360 feedback

00:40:29.640 on

00:40:29.860 the

00:40:29.980 show

00:40:30.240 good

00:40:30.520 bad

00:40:30.760 or

00:40:30.880 ugly

00:40:31.140 always

00:40:31.780 appreciate

00:40:32.220 hearing

00:40:32.580 from

00:40:32.820 you

00:40:32.980 guys

00:40:33.300 so

00:40:33.860 here's

00:40:34.120 a

00:40:34.220 couple

00:40:35.040 other

00:40:35.280 day

00:40:35.480 about

00:40:35.760 what

00:40:36.420 happened

00:40:36.700 to

00:40:36.840 poor

00:40:37.000 Damar

00:40:37.340 Hamlin

00:40:37.800 and

00:40:38.120 the

00:40:38.260 updates

00:40:38.560 have

00:40:38.780 gotten

00:40:39.020 better

00:40:39.280 on

00:40:39.480 him

00:40:39.640 thank

00:40:40.000 god

00:40:40.520 thank

00:40:40.800 god

00:40:40.980 they

00:40:41.120 got

00:40:41.260 they

00:40:41.420 got

00:40:41.560 but

00:40:42.560 we

00:40:42.720 debated

00:40:43.180 the

00:40:44.000 skip

00:40:44.240 Bayless

00:40:44.680 tweet

00:40:45.020 when

00:40:45.220 Eric

00:40:45.460 Bowling

00:40:45.740 was

00:40:45.920 on

00:40:46.220 about

00:40:47.160 it

00:40:47.780 was

00:40:47.920 while

00:40:48.380 Damar

00:40:49.000 Hamlin

00:40:49.300 was

00:40:49.840 down

00:40:50.180 and

00:40:50.940 he

00:40:51.080 tweeted

00:40:51.380 about

00:40:51.800 how

00:40:52.680 the

00:40:53.120 NFL

00:40:53.380 was

00:40:53.580 going

00:40:53.700 to

00:40:53.760 have

00:40:53.880 to

00:40:54.000 decide

00:40:54.300 whether

00:40:54.500 to

00:40:54.660 continue

00:40:54.940 this

00:40:55.160 game

00:40:55.580 but

00:40:56.040 how

00:40:56.160 could

00:40:56.280 they

00:40:56.380 possibly

00:40:56.800 not

00:40:57.380 given

00:40:57.660 how

00:40:57.840 close

00:41:05.040 at

00:41:05.820 skip

00:41:06.020 Bayless

00:41:06.400 I

00:41:07.160 defended

00:41:07.540 skip

00:41:07.960 but

00:41:08.980 Eric's

00:41:09.280 point

00:41:09.440 was

00:41:09.720 maybe

00:41:09.960 the

00:41:10.120 tweet

00:41:10.280 would

00:41:10.420 have

00:41:10.500 been

00:41:10.600 okay

00:41:10.860 but

00:41:11.020 not

00:41:11.220 while

00:41:11.360 the

00:41:11.460 guy

00:41:11.580 is

00:41:11.680 down

00:41:11.920 in

00:41:12.040 the

00:41:12.120 field

00:41:12.440 and

00:41:12.860 his

00:41:13.080 heart

00:41:13.280 isn't

00:41:13.500 beating

00:41:13.740 like

00:41:14.080 have

00:41:14.300 some

00:41:14.620 heart

00:41:15.480 and

00:41:16.280 then

00:41:16.480 I

00:41:16.820 revealed

00:41:17.300 to

00:41:17.460 the

00:41:17.580 audience

00:41:17.880 that

00:41:18.060 Canadian

00:41:18.360 Debbie

00:41:18.680 my

00:41:19.360 longtime

00:41:19.760 producer

00:41:20.420 we've

00:41:20.720 been

00:41:20.840 together

00:41:21.040 America's

00:41:21.480 newsroom

00:41:21.820 America

00:41:22.140 live

00:41:22.500 the

00:41:22.660 Kelly

00:41:22.900 file

00:41:23.260 NBC

00:41:23.780 we've

00:41:24.180 been

00:41:24.260 together

00:41:24.440 forever

00:41:24.760 she's

00:41:26.420 my

00:41:26.620 producer

00:41:27.100 alter

00:41:27.400 ego

00:41:27.660 she

00:41:28.840 was

00:41:29.380 very

00:41:29.780 hardcore

00:41:30.260 on

00:41:30.640 Skip

00:41:30.860 Bayless

00:41:31.160 did

00:41:31.340 nothing

00:41:31.560 wrong

00:41:31.840 that

00:41:32.600 excuse

00:41:33.620 me

00:41:33.800 that

00:41:34.000 he

00:41:34.820 had

00:41:35.180 a

00:41:35.260 right

00:41:35.380 to

00:41:35.500 do

00:41:35.620 it

00:41:35.720 he

00:41:35.800 was

00:41:35.900 a

00:41:36.040 journalist

00:41:36.300 it

00:41:36.520 is

00:41:36.560 his

00:41:36.700 job

00:41:37.100 to

00:41:37.300 think

00:41:37.500 about

00:41:37.680 things

00:41:37.900 like

00:41:38.060 this

00:41:38.260 and

00:41:38.480 the

00:41:38.680 audience

00:41:39.440 I

00:41:40.040 mean

00:41:40.160 everybody

00:41:40.780 who

00:41:41.160 emailed

00:41:41.500 agrees

00:41:42.500 with

00:41:42.980 Debbie

00:41:43.500 here's

00:41:44.340 one

00:41:44.440 from

00:41:44.600 Erica

00:41:44.980 we're

00:41:46.160 curious

00:41:46.520 often

00:41:46.820 nosy

00:41:47.120 people

00:41:47.460 feels

00:41:47.780 the

00:41:47.920 same

00:41:48.080 to

00:41:48.180 me

00:41:48.280 as

00:41:48.380 when

00:41:48.500 there's

00:41:48.660 a

00:41:48.760 tragic

00:41:49.020 airline

00:41:49.320 crash

00:41:49.760 a

00:41:50.040 natural

00:41:50.340 disaster

00:41:50.760 or

00:41:50.980 even

00:41:51.180 a

00:41:51.300 horrific

00:41:51.660 car

00:41:52.340 accident

00:41:52.640 we

00:41:52.800 drive

00:41:53.020 by

00:41:53.200 we

00:41:53.380 send

00:41:53.600 prayers

00:41:53.880 and

00:41:54.040 love

00:41:54.300 but

00:41:54.840 we

00:41:54.960 always

00:41:55.200 ask

00:41:55.460 what

00:41:55.660 happened

00:41:56.040 it's

00:41:56.260 a

00:41:56.380 natural

00:41:56.720 human

00:41:57.440 response

00:41:58.420 Darla

00:41:59.760 in

00:41:59.940 Iowa

00:42:00.220 says

00:42:00.620 Skip's

00:42:01.100 tweet

00:42:01.300 was

00:42:01.480 true

00:42:01.840 and

00:42:02.060 presented

00:42:02.360 the

00:42:02.560 tension

00:42:02.840 that

00:42:03.040 the

00:42:03.180 NFL

00:42:03.640 will

00:42:04.000 be

00:42:04.160 navigating

00:42:04.600 while

00:42:04.800 trying

00:42:05.020 to

00:42:05.140 put

00:42:05.300 it

00:42:05.380 in

00:42:05.480 the

00:42:05.580 proper

00:42:05.800 perspective

00:42:06.360 in

00:42:06.680 the

00:42:06.820 moment

00:42:07.080 which

00:42:07.800 I

00:42:07.960 agree

00:42:08.220 with

00:42:08.420 Canadian

00:42:08.760 Debbie

00:42:09.040 is

00:42:09.340 his

00:42:09.520 job

00:42:09.940 could

00:42:10.640 you

00:42:10.720 find

00:42:10.900 reasons

00:42:11.200 to

00:42:11.340 be

00:42:11.440 offended

00:42:11.660 by

00:42:11.800 the

00:42:11.920 tweet

00:42:12.080 if

00:42:12.200 that

00:42:12.320 was

00:42:21.660 that

00:42:21.800 the

00:42:21.940 tweet

00:42:22.100 occurred

00:42:22.380 while

00:42:22.580 Demar

00:42:22.840 laid

00:42:23.040 on

00:42:23.180 the

00:42:23.320 field

00:42:23.660 however

00:42:24.460 I

00:42:24.820 agree

00:42:25.040 with

00:42:25.200 Canadian

00:42:25.520 Debbie

00:42:25.780 I

00:42:26.380 don't

00:42:26.540 have

00:42:26.740 an

00:42:26.860 issue

00:42:27.220 with

00:42:27.780 his

00:42:27.960 tweet

00:42:28.300 never

00:42:28.600 did

00:42:29.020 I

00:42:29.560 felt

00:42:29.760 his

00:42:29.920 tweet

00:42:30.100 was

00:42:30.260 one

00:42:30.380 of

00:42:30.440 the

00:42:30.500 more

00:42:30.640 genuine

00:42:31.020 and

00:42:31.300 rational

00:42:31.780 of

00:42:32.220 those

00:42:32.580 that

00:42:33.200 were

00:42:33.720 questioned

00:42:34.240 so

00:42:35.060 that's

00:42:35.680 just a

00:42:36.100 sampling

00:42:36.340 but

00:42:36.560 everybody

00:42:37.320 agreed

00:42:37.640 with

00:42:37.780 Canadian

00:42:38.060 Debbie

00:42:38.360 did

00:42:38.600 not

00:42:38.780 think

00:42:38.960 Skip

00:42:39.240 did

00:42:39.940 anything

00:42:40.180 wrong

00:42:40.480 Canadian

00:42:42.180 Debbie

00:42:42.400 says

00:42:42.660 she

00:42:42.800 loves

00:42:43.000 our

00:42:43.140 listeners

00:42:43.840 Debbie

00:42:46.020 do

00:42:46.340 we

00:42:47.160 call her

00:42:47.520 Canadian

00:42:47.800 Debbie

00:42:48.040 because

00:42:48.240 she

00:42:48.320 used

00:42:48.440 to

00:42:48.480 be

00:42:48.580 American

00:42:48.920 Debbie

00:42:49.180 she

00:42:49.340 grew

00:42:49.460 up

00:42:49.560 in

00:42:49.640 Ohio

00:42:50.080 but

00:42:50.340 then

00:42:50.480 she

00:42:50.660 married

00:42:51.400 a

00:42:51.620 damn

00:42:51.840 Canadian

00:42:52.220 and

00:42:52.440 moved

00:42:52.660 to

00:42:52.800 damn

00:42:53.060 Canada

00:42:53.420 had

00:42:53.860 a

00:42:53.960 bunch

00:42:54.120 of

00:42:54.260 damn

00:42:54.520 Canadian

00:42:54.880 children

00:42:55.220 I

00:42:55.700 love

00:42:55.940 them

00:42:56.060 all

00:42:56.480 but

00:42:56.840 I'm

00:42:56.920 just

00:42:57.060 mad

00:42:57.300 that

00:42:57.440 Canadian

00:42:57.720 Debbie

00:42:57.920 moved

00:42:58.200 away

00:42:58.380 from

00:42:58.540 me

00:42:58.840 I'm

00:42:59.860 getting

00:43:00.020 over

00:43:00.280 it

00:43:00.420 it's

00:43:00.500 been

00:43:00.580 like

00:43:00.740 10

00:43:01.060 12

00:43:01.640 how

00:43:01.940 many

00:43:02.080 years

00:43:02.280 it's

00:43:03.000 been

00:43:03.120 a

00:43:03.240 decade

00:43:03.480 okay

00:43:03.760 Barbara

00:43:05.080 Walters

00:43:05.660 of course

00:43:06.180 the

00:43:06.560 legendary

00:43:06.960 newscaster

00:43:07.660 trailblazer

00:43:17.800 she

00:43:18.120 broke

00:43:18.420 but

00:43:18.600 also

00:43:19.160 some

00:43:20.340 other

00:43:20.620 lessons

00:43:21.000 I

00:43:21.180 learned

00:43:21.400 from

00:43:21.580 Barbara

00:43:21.840 Walters

00:43:22.200 including

00:43:22.620 what not

00:43:24.340 to do

00:43:24.620 in the

00:43:24.840 parenting

00:43:25.140 field

00:43:25.500 and

00:43:26.640 I

00:43:26.920 learned

00:43:27.220 all

00:43:27.380 those

00:43:27.540 lessons

00:43:27.800 from

00:43:28.120 her

00:43:28.540 book

00:43:29.280 her

00:43:30.220 memoir

00:43:30.660 called

00:43:31.380 Audition

00:43:31.960 which

00:43:32.160 came out

00:43:32.440 in 2008

00:43:33.080 was

00:43:33.300 very

00:43:33.960 eye

00:43:34.500 opening

00:43:34.880 for

00:43:35.140 me

00:43:35.360 as

00:43:36.400 a

00:43:36.540 young

00:43:36.720 mother

00:43:37.040 I

00:43:37.400 was

00:43:37.520 about

00:43:38.040 to

00:43:38.260 become

00:43:38.460 a

00:43:38.620 mother

00:43:38.820 a

00:43:39.220 young

00:43:39.400 bride

00:43:39.820 at

00:43:39.980 that

00:43:40.120 point

00:43:40.360 and

00:43:41.520 I

00:43:41.620 hadn't

00:43:41.820 yet

00:43:42.020 had

00:43:42.260 my

00:43:42.420 first

00:43:42.660 child

00:43:42.920 he

00:43:43.060 would

00:43:43.180 come

00:43:43.320 in

00:43:43.420 2009

00:43:44.040 and

00:43:44.460 her

00:43:47.340 mistakes

00:43:47.980 in

00:43:48.140 the

00:43:48.260 parenting

00:43:48.560 lane

00:43:48.820 were

00:43:48.960 horrifying

00:43:49.420 George

00:43:50.160 writes

00:43:50.420 in

00:43:50.580 your

00:43:50.720 scorching

00:43:51.180 indictment

00:43:51.600 of

00:43:51.700 Barbara

00:43:51.900 Walter's

00:43:52.280 mothering

00:43:52.640 took

00:43:52.880 guts

00:43:53.280 and

00:43:53.800 I

00:43:53.920 deeply

00:43:54.120 admire

00:43:54.460 your

00:43:55.080 continuing

00:43:55.720 commitment

00:43:56.240 to

00:43:56.500 follow

00:43:56.680 the

00:43:56.880 truth

00:43:57.080 wherever

00:43:57.300 it

00:43:57.460 leads

00:43:57.640 you

00:43:57.760 chose

00:43:57.960 to

00:43:58.100 highlight

00:43:58.280 what

00:43:58.480 what

00:43:59.160 is

00:43:59.260 one

00:43:59.420 of

00:43:59.500 the

00:43:59.600 worst

00:43:59.860 phenomena

00:44:00.280 in

00:44:00.980 our

00:44:01.120 of

00:44:01.280 our

00:44:01.400 century

00:44:01.700 the

00:44:01.900 degradation

00:44:02.340 of

00:44:02.880 motherhood

00:44:03.280 thank

00:44:03.520 you

00:44:03.620 for

00:44:03.740 that

00:44:03.940 George

00:44:04.240 some

00:44:04.460 people

00:44:04.640 thought

00:44:04.780 I

00:44:04.840 was

00:44:04.940 too

00:44:05.060 hard

00:44:05.280 on

00:44:05.400 her

00:44:05.600 I

00:44:06.320 get

00:44:06.680 that

00:44:06.900 to

00:44:07.180 somebody

00:44:08.880 calls

00:44:09.580 themselves

00:44:09.920 D

00:44:10.320 says

00:44:11.180 you

00:44:11.320 do

00:44:11.500 such

00:44:11.780 a good

00:44:12.020 job

00:44:12.200 talking

00:44:12.400 about

00:44:12.540 being

00:44:12.740 friends

00:44:12.960 with

00:44:13.060 people

00:44:13.240 you

00:44:13.400 disagree

00:44:13.840 with

00:44:14.380 one

00:44:14.820 of

00:44:14.900 my

00:44:15.000 best

00:44:15.240 and

00:44:15.400 longest

00:44:15.620 friends

00:44:15.940 cut

00:44:16.220 me

00:44:16.360 out

00:44:16.540 of

00:44:16.620 her

00:44:16.740 life

00:44:16.940 earlier

00:44:17.200 when

00:44:17.360 I

00:44:17.460 said

00:44:17.620 I

00:44:17.720 disagreed

00:44:18.120 on

00:44:18.200 the

00:44:18.300 COVID

00:44:18.500 vaccine

00:44:19.000 stand

00:44:19.660 by

00:44:19.800 my

00:44:19.980 view

00:44:20.180 but

00:44:20.360 it

00:44:20.460 still

00:44:20.660 hurts

00:44:20.860 I'd

00:44:21.020 like

00:44:21.120 to

00:44:21.220 repair

00:44:21.560 that

00:44:21.760 relationship

00:44:22.200 eventually

00:44:22.620 any

00:44:22.880 advice

00:44:23.280 D

00:44:24.000 don't

00:44:24.400 do

00:44:24.600 it

00:44:25.100 D

00:44:25.300 your

00:44:25.460 friend

00:44:25.700 sounds

00:44:25.980 like

00:44:26.140 a

00:44:26.260 loser

00:44:26.560 D

00:44:36.900 and

00:44:37.080 better

00:44:37.320 friends

00:44:37.700 send

00:44:38.340 me

00:44:38.460 an

00:44:38.540 email

00:44:38.740 at

00:44:39.040 Megan

00:44:39.720 and

00:44:40.540 subscribe

00:44:42.540 while

00:44:43.060 you're

00:44:43.200 there

00:44:43.380 to

00:44:43.540 our

00:44:43.680 American

00:44:44.140 News

00:44:44.600 Minute

00:44:44.880 back

00:44:45.360 with

00:44:45.480 a

00:44:45.560 deep

00:44:45.700 dive

00:44:45.960 on

00:44:46.320 Idaho

00:44:46.940 don't

00:44:47.400 go

00:44:47.520 away

00:44:47.700 for

00:44:51.120 the

00:44:51.260 first

00:44:51.500 time

00:44:51.900 we

00:44:52.220 have

00:44:52.340 gotten

00:44:52.500 a

00:44:52.600 look

00:44:52.700 at

00:44:52.800 the

00:44:52.900 evidence

00:44:53.280 used

00:44:53.680 to

00:44:54.020 arrest

00:44:54.340 the

00:44:54.500 man

00:44:54.660 suspected

00:44:55.040 of

00:44:55.240 killing

00:44:55.440 those

00:44:55.720 four

00:44:56.180 Idaho

00:44:56.620 college

00:44:57.280 students

00:44:57.680 in

00:44:57.940 November

00:44:58.280 the

00:44:59.100 19

00:44:59.440 page

00:44:59.720 affidavit

00:45:00.220 is

00:45:00.440 extremely

00:45:01.000 detailed

00:45:01.560 alleging

00:45:02.560 the

00:45:02.920 suspect

00:45:03.280 left

00:45:03.980 behind

00:45:04.220 a

00:45:04.360 crucial

00:45:04.580 piece

00:45:04.860 of

00:45:06.900 discussing

00:45:07.500 how

00:45:07.700 authorities

00:45:08.100 say

00:45:08.420 his

00:45:08.720 car

00:45:09.100 and

00:45:09.740 DNA

00:45:10.200 links

00:45:11.180 him

00:45:11.420 to

00:45:11.660 the

00:45:11.780 crime

00:45:12.080 and

00:45:12.680 revealing

00:45:13.040 that

00:45:13.380 he

00:45:13.600 may

00:45:13.780 have

00:45:13.880 been

00:45:14.040 stalking

00:45:14.700 his

00:45:14.900 victims

00:45:15.340 for

00:45:16.040 months

00:45:16.420 may

00:45:16.600 have

00:45:16.720 gone

00:45:16.880 by

00:45:17.060 their

00:45:17.220 house

00:45:17.520 and

00:45:18.060 sat

00:45:18.440 outside

00:45:18.880 potentially

00:45:19.340 as

00:45:19.600 many

00:45:19.800 as

00:45:20.020 12

00:45:20.520 times

00:45:20.960 from

00:45:21.720 the

00:45:21.920 period

00:45:22.160 of

00:45:22.340 August

00:45:22.840 through

00:45:23.760 the

00:45:24.080 early

00:45:24.340 morning

00:45:24.760 hours

00:45:25.120 of

00:45:25.260 November

00:45:25.520 13th

00:45:26.500 when

00:45:26.660 the

00:45:26.800 four

00:45:27.080 young

00:45:27.820 promising

00:45:28.640 college

00:45:29.120 students

00:45:29.500 were

00:45:30.060 murdered

00:45:30.580 in

00:45:30.920 cold

00:45:31.120 blood

00:45:31.400 three

00:45:31.780 young

00:45:32.000 women

00:45:32.240 and

00:45:32.820 a

00:45:32.920 young

00:45:33.080 man

00:45:33.300 the

00:45:33.460 boyfriend

00:45:33.720 of

00:45:33.880 one

00:45:34.020 of

00:45:34.140 the

00:45:34.280 women

00:45:34.780 murdered

00:45:35.240 shockingly

00:45:36.280 we

00:45:36.440 also

00:45:36.740 have

00:45:36.960 learned

00:45:37.220 that

00:45:37.420 one

00:45:37.700 of

00:45:37.840 the

00:45:38.020 surviving

00:45:38.560 roommates

00:45:39.260 apparently

00:45:40.420 saw

00:45:40.900 the

00:45:41.100 killer

00:45:41.380 while

00:45:42.280 he

00:45:42.420 was

00:45:42.580 in

00:45:42.920 her

00:45:43.160 house

00:45:43.560 on

00:45:43.760 the

00:45:43.840 night

00:45:43.980 of

00:45:44.080 the

00:45:44.160 attack

00:45:44.460 of

00:45:44.800 the

00:45:44.900 attack

00:45:45.100 don't

00:45:45.240 forget

00:45:45.420 there

00:45:45.600 were

00:45:45.720 two

00:45:45.980 people

00:45:46.420 who

00:45:47.040 shared

00:45:47.440 this

00:45:47.800 house

00:45:48.520 who

00:45:49.080 were

00:45:49.200 not

00:45:49.440 murdered

00:45:49.760 who

00:45:49.960 were

00:45:50.080 said

00:45:50.240 to

00:45:50.320 be

00:45:50.460 in

00:45:50.760 the

00:45:51.000 home

00:45:51.340 on

00:45:51.680 the

00:45:51.760 night

00:45:51.880 in

00:45:52.000 question

00:45:52.360 one

00:45:53.040 of

00:45:53.180 whom

00:45:53.400 laid

00:45:53.940 eyes

00:45:54.260 on

00:45:54.380 the

00:45:54.480 killer

00:45:54.720 raising

00:45:55.720 questions

00:45:56.120 about

00:45:56.340 why

00:45:56.820 she

00:45:57.420 and

00:45:58.060 the

00:45:58.200 others

00:45:58.400 did

00:45:58.580 not

00:45:58.740 call

00:45:59.180 911

00:46:00.840 until

00:46:01.300 almost

00:46:01.820 eight

00:46:02.760 hours

00:46:03.280 after

00:46:03.900 the

00:46:04.080 victims

00:46:04.440 were

00:46:05.100 stabbed

00:46:05.440 to

00:46:05.620 death

00:46:05.900 joining

00:46:06.700 me

00:46:06.800 now

00:46:06.940 with

00:46:07.040 all

00:46:07.160 the

00:46:07.280 latest

00:46:07.560 is

00:46:07.900 Brian

00:46:08.180 Enten

00:46:08.500 he's

00:46:08.820 senior

00:46:09.040 national

00:46:09.620 correspondent

00:46:10.040 for

00:46:10.260 News

00:46:10.440 Nation

00:46:10.760 he

00:46:11.440 was

00:46:11.600 in

00:46:11.740 the

00:46:11.860 Idaho

00:46:12.120 courtroom

00:46:12.580 yesterday

00:46:13.220 as

00:46:13.900 the

00:46:14.040 accused

00:46:14.360 killer

00:46:14.680 faced

00:46:15.220 the

00:46:15.420 judge

00:46:15.780 and

00:46:16.540 some

00:46:16.760 of

00:46:16.840 the

00:46:16.940 victims

00:46:17.260 relatives

00:46:18.020 who

00:46:18.660 showed

00:46:18.980 up

00:46:19.280 and

00:46:19.920 with

00:46:20.060 a

00:46:20.180 shortly

00:46:20.500 John

00:46:21.180 bill

00:46:21.460 board

00:46:21.620 will

00:46:21.780 join

00:46:21.980 as

00:46:22.100 criminal

00:46:22.340 defense

00:46:22.640 attorney

00:46:22.900 founding

00:46:23.200 attorney

00:46:23.680 of

00:46:23.820 John

00:46:23.980 Spilbo

00:46:24.260 or

00:46:24.340 law

00:46:24.600 leader

00:46:24.840 will

00:46:25.040 go

00:46:25.280 into

00:46:25.600 the

00:46:25.800 mind

00:46:26.060 of

00:46:26.220 this

00:46:26.380 killer

00:46:26.580 with

00:46:26.760 the

00:46:26.900 specialist

00:46:27.240 okay

00:46:28.400 so

00:46:28.740 thank you

00:46:29.140 so much

00:46:29.360 for being

00:46:29.640 here

00:46:29.800 first of

00:46:30.160 all

00:46:30.300 Brian

00:46:30.600 and

00:46:31.060 let's

00:46:32.340 talk

00:46:32.500 about

00:46:32.640 the

00:46:32.760 affidavit

00:46:33.100 because

00:46:33.280 that's

00:46:33.500 where

00:46:33.620 all

00:46:34.080 of

00:46:34.400 the

00:46:34.500 relevant

00:46:34.780 information

00:46:35.360 is

00:46:36.120 it

00:46:37.500 lays

00:46:37.820 out

00:46:37.980 in

00:46:38.100 great

00:46:38.260 detail

00:46:38.520 the

00:46:38.700 timeline

00:46:39.020 of

00:46:39.200 the

00:46:39.300 attack

00:46:39.620 which

00:46:39.820 we

00:46:39.960 didn't

00:46:40.180 have

00:46:40.420 before

00:46:40.800 the

00:46:41.140 police

00:46:41.500 concluded

00:46:42.060 that

00:46:42.760 it

00:46:42.860 occurred

00:46:43.120 between

00:46:43.420 4am

00:46:44.020 and

00:46:44.180 425

00:46:45.140 am

00:46:45.920 on

00:46:46.980 the

00:46:47.180 early

00:46:47.480 morning

00:46:47.780 hours

00:46:48.160 of

00:46:48.360 november

00:46:48.860 13th

00:46:50.420 and

00:46:51.060 it's

00:46:51.400 one

00:46:51.760 of

00:46:51.860 the

00:46:51.960 things

00:46:52.120 that's

00:46:52.300 crazy

00:46:52.520 to

00:46:52.700 me

00:46:52.860 is

00:46:53.060 these

00:46:53.440 students

00:46:53.860 only

00:46:54.260 got

00:46:54.500 home

00:46:54.960 moments

00:46:55.880 before

00:46:56.280 that

00:46:56.600 i mean

00:46:56.860 they

00:46:57.360 this

00:46:58.100 guy

00:46:58.320 definitely

00:46:58.700 was

00:46:58.900 watching

00:46:59.240 them

00:46:59.520 and

00:47:00.040 waiting

00:47:00.340 until

00:47:00.600 they

00:47:00.720 got

00:47:00.880 in

00:47:01.040 he

00:47:01.180 must

00:47:01.420 have

00:47:01.580 waited

00:47:01.840 until

00:47:02.120 they

00:47:02.260 were

00:47:02.380 somewhat

00:47:02.680 settled

00:47:03.120 too

00:47:03.380 because

00:47:03.820 we

00:47:04.420 know

00:47:04.580 from

00:47:04.720 the

00:47:04.840 affidavit

00:47:05.300 one

00:47:05.540 of

00:47:05.680 them

00:47:05.940 at

00:47:07.400 least

00:47:07.580 one

00:47:07.740 of

00:47:07.820 them

00:47:07.960 ordered

00:47:08.300 a

00:47:09.140 delivery

00:47:14.020 was

00:47:14.340 watching

00:47:14.800 and

00:47:15.000 waiting

00:47:15.340 and

00:47:16.300 it

00:47:16.640 must

00:47:16.860 have

00:47:16.960 been

00:47:17.040 a

00:47:17.180 very

00:47:17.360 tight

00:47:17.620 timeline

00:47:17.980 from

00:47:18.240 when

00:47:18.380 they

00:47:18.500 fell

00:47:18.700 asleep

00:47:18.960 or

00:47:19.120 got

00:47:19.260 in

00:47:19.400 bed

00:47:19.580 to

00:47:19.720 when

00:47:19.900 he

00:47:20.040 walked

00:47:20.300 in

00:47:20.560 yeah

00:47:21.420 thank you

00:47:21.940 for

00:47:22.040 having

00:47:22.260 me

00:47:22.600 according

00:47:22.880 to

00:47:23.020 the

00:47:23.140 affidavit

00:47:23.880 the

00:47:24.460 suspect

00:47:25.900 was

00:47:26.440 in the

00:47:26.940 area

00:47:27.180 of the

00:47:27.420 house

00:47:27.620 at least

00:47:27.980 12

00:47:28.500 times

00:47:29.660 in

00:47:30.520 the

00:47:30.700 days

00:47:31.020 and

00:47:31.200 weeks

00:47:31.700 leading

00:47:32.060 up

00:47:32.320 to

00:47:32.440 the

00:47:32.580 murders

00:47:32.960 they

00:47:33.820 think

00:47:34.040 perhaps

00:47:34.400 stalking

00:47:34.840 the

00:47:34.980 house

00:47:35.300 the

00:47:36.040 cell

00:47:36.300 phone

00:47:36.660 data

00:47:36.940 picks

00:47:37.340 him

00:47:37.560 up

00:47:37.840 right

00:47:38.700 before

00:47:39.060 the

00:47:39.260 murders

00:47:39.660 near

00:47:40.260 the

00:47:40.420 house

00:47:40.660 and

00:47:40.880 then

00:47:41.000 it

00:47:41.120 picks

00:47:41.320 him

00:47:41.520 up

00:47:41.780 after

00:47:42.380 the

00:47:42.580 murders

00:47:42.940 but

00:47:43.380 according

00:47:44.240 to

00:47:44.480 the

00:47:44.680 affidavit

00:47:45.120 and what

00:47:45.340 the

00:47:45.460 detectives

00:47:45.960 say

00:47:46.280 they

00:47:46.860 believe

00:47:47.140 he

00:47:47.280 may

00:47:47.400 have

00:47:47.540 turned

00:47:47.780 off

00:47:48.020 his

00:47:48.200 cell

00:47:48.420 phone

00:47:48.700 or

00:47:48.920 put

00:47:49.140 it

00:47:49.220 on

00:47:49.340 airplane

00:47:49.780 mode

00:47:50.320 during

00:47:51.200 the

00:47:51.420 time

00:47:51.800 that

00:47:52.040 the

00:47:52.200 actual

00:47:52.560 murders

00:47:52.940 were

00:47:53.120 committed

00:47:53.400 between

00:47:54.380 3am

00:47:54.920 and

00:47:55.060 5am

00:47:55.760 they

00:47:56.800 do

00:47:57.160 not

00:47:57.360 detect

00:47:57.720 his

00:47:57.960 cell

00:47:58.200 phone

00:47:58.400 pinging

00:47:58.860 off

00:47:59.220 of

00:47:59.340 any

00:47:59.520 towers

00:47:59.920 which

00:48:00.160 suggests

00:48:00.520 it

00:48:00.620 was

00:48:00.740 either

00:48:00.960 in

00:48:01.180 airplane

00:48:01.720 mode

00:48:02.220 or

00:48:02.840 off

00:48:03.400 or

00:48:03.560 he

00:48:03.700 didn't

00:48:03.960 bring

00:48:04.200 it

00:48:04.340 with

00:48:04.600 him

00:48:04.920 which

00:48:05.480 almost

00:48:05.840 is

00:48:06.020 more

00:48:06.240 incriminating

00:48:06.880 now

00:48:07.100 because

00:48:07.280 they

00:48:07.440 have

00:48:07.680 him

00:48:07.820 there

00:48:08.060 they

00:48:08.700 have

00:48:09.040 him

00:48:09.200 in

00:48:09.320 the

00:48:09.460 area

00:48:09.920 before

00:48:10.760 and

00:48:11.080 they

00:48:11.180 have

00:48:11.360 him

00:48:11.460 in

00:48:11.540 the

00:48:11.660 area

00:48:12.020 after

00:48:12.700 with

00:48:14.180 the

00:48:14.300 pinging

00:48:14.560 and

00:48:14.840 with

00:48:15.040 the

00:48:15.200 video

00:48:15.620 camera

00:48:16.280 of

00:48:16.520 his

00:48:16.660 car

00:48:17.000 but

00:48:17.760 clearly

00:48:18.060 he

00:48:18.200 turned

00:48:18.360 off

00:48:18.480 his

00:48:18.600 phone

00:48:18.860 for

00:48:19.400 the

00:48:19.540 actual

00:48:19.820 murders

00:48:20.220 so

00:48:20.480 this

00:48:20.740 is

00:48:20.880 one

00:48:21.020 of

00:48:21.120 the

00:48:21.220 things

00:48:21.420 that

00:48:21.600 has

00:48:21.760 people

00:48:21.980 thinking

00:48:22.300 maybe

00:48:22.620 he's

00:48:22.760 not

00:48:22.900 that

00:48:23.060 smart

00:48:23.360 like

00:48:23.620 who

00:48:24.280 takes

00:48:24.520 their

00:48:24.680 cell

00:48:24.900 phone

00:48:25.040 to

00:48:25.160 commit

00:48:25.480 a

00:48:25.620 murder

00:48:25.800 everybody

00:48:26.160 knows

00:48:26.620 they

00:48:27.140 can

00:48:27.280 track

00:48:27.540 you

00:48:27.660 with

00:48:27.820 this

00:48:28.000 thing

00:48:28.300 the

00:48:30.060 stalking

00:48:30.740 is

00:48:31.020 interesting

00:48:31.400 we

00:48:31.840 still

00:48:32.100 don't

00:48:32.380 know

00:48:32.640 how

00:48:33.160 if

00:48:33.440 at

00:48:33.560 all

00:48:33.860 he

00:48:34.360 met

00:48:34.660 any

00:48:35.080 of

00:48:35.220 the

00:48:35.320 victims

00:48:35.620 if

00:48:35.960 he

00:48:36.080 had

00:48:36.220 met

00:48:36.380 any

00:48:36.660 of

00:48:36.780 the

00:48:36.860 victims

00:48:37.240 one

00:48:37.940 of

00:48:38.060 the

00:48:38.160 victims

00:48:38.420 parents

00:48:38.780 has

00:48:39.000 said

00:48:39.200 they

00:48:39.360 believe

00:48:39.780 that

00:48:39.980 there

00:48:40.140 was

00:48:40.320 some

00:48:40.600 connections

00:48:41.100 between

00:48:41.600 this

00:48:42.440 man

00:48:42.880 Brian

00:48:43.480 Kohlberger

00:48:43.920 and

00:48:44.780 his

00:48:45.280 daughter

00:48:45.660 one

00:48:45.980 of

00:48:46.080 the

00:48:46.180 victims

00:48:46.500 but

00:48:46.940 we

00:48:47.040 really

00:48:47.240 don't

00:48:47.420 know

00:48:47.640 motive

00:48:48.040 at

00:48:48.340 all

00:48:48.540 yeah

00:48:49.080 so

00:48:49.360 Kaylee

00:48:49.680 Gonzalez

00:48:50.120 his

00:48:50.360 family

00:48:50.560 there

00:48:50.720 was

00:48:50.860 some

00:48:51.040 reporting

00:48:51.480 that

00:48:51.760 they

00:48:52.020 said

00:48:52.240 they

00:48:52.420 thought

00:48:52.640 there

00:48:52.780 was

00:48:52.880 a

00:48:52.980 connection

00:48:53.320 I've

00:48:53.760 talked

00:48:53.980 to

00:48:54.120 them

00:48:54.400 a ton

00:48:54.940 as

00:48:55.820 recently

00:48:56.100 as

00:48:56.300 yesterday

00:48:56.680 and

00:48:57.420 they

00:48:57.620 say

00:48:57.900 that

00:48:58.200 they

00:48:58.500 didn't

00:48:58.860 really

00:48:59.200 say

00:48:59.540 that

00:48:59.840 they

00:49:00.060 don't

00:49:00.340 know

00:49:00.720 right

00:49:01.060 now

00:49:01.440 of

00:49:01.720 a

00:49:01.860 specific

00:49:02.260 connection

00:49:02.760 between

00:49:03.200 Kohlberger

00:49:03.780 and

00:49:04.500 Kohlberger

00:49:04.880 they say

00:49:05.300 they're

00:49:05.500 looking

00:49:05.780 for

00:49:06.020 connections

00:49:06.520 but

00:49:07.480 they

00:49:07.660 haven't

00:49:07.940 come up

00:49:08.260 with

00:49:08.400 anything

00:49:08.740 yet

00:49:09.020 at

00:49:09.240 this

00:49:09.460 point

00:49:09.780 besides

00:49:10.320 just

00:49:10.620 I mean

00:49:10.860 obviously

00:49:11.080 the

00:49:11.260 geography

00:49:11.720 I mean

00:49:12.060 Kohlberger

00:49:12.500 was

00:49:12.920 getting

00:49:13.180 his

00:49:13.380 PhD

00:49:13.820 in

00:49:14.500 criminology

00:49:15.140 just

00:49:15.780 about

00:49:16.020 10

00:49:16.300 minutes

00:49:16.600 away

00:49:17.040 from

00:49:17.380 the

00:49:17.880 house

00:49:18.040 where

00:49:18.200 the

00:49:18.280 murders

00:49:18.520 happened

00:49:18.880 in

00:49:19.580 Pullman

00:49:19.860 Washington

00:49:20.360 so

00:49:20.800 he

00:49:21.240 was

00:49:21.460 in

00:49:21.560 the

00:49:21.700 area

00:49:22.160 of

00:49:22.980 course

00:49:23.280 but

00:49:23.540 we

00:49:23.880 don't

00:49:24.040 know

00:49:24.220 of

00:49:24.340 anything

00:49:24.600 that

00:49:24.840 specifically

00:49:25.380 ties

00:49:25.800 him

00:49:25.980 to

00:49:26.120 any

00:49:26.380 of

00:49:26.600 the

00:49:26.700 victims

00:49:26.980 at

00:49:27.140 this

00:49:27.280 point

00:49:27.480 and

00:49:27.860 there

00:49:27.980 was

00:49:28.100 nothing

00:49:28.260 about

00:49:28.520 motive

00:49:28.900 or

00:49:29.080 anything

00:49:29.340 that

00:49:29.560 connected

00:49:29.880 him

00:49:30.100 it's

00:49:32.420 incredible

00:49:32.780 that

00:49:33.020 they

00:49:33.180 actually

00:49:33.520 found

00:49:33.840 not

00:49:34.020 the

00:49:34.180 murder

00:49:34.400 weapon

00:49:34.720 but

00:49:35.020 the

00:49:35.260 sheath

00:49:35.740 that

00:49:36.140 the

00:49:36.320 knife

00:49:36.960 had

00:49:37.600 been

00:49:37.840 housed

00:49:38.600 in

00:49:39.060 at

00:49:39.900 the

00:49:40.140 murder

00:49:40.400 scene

00:49:40.920 next

00:49:41.500 to

00:49:41.740 one

00:49:41.960 of

00:49:42.080 the

00:49:42.200 victims

00:49:42.660 incredibly

00:49:43.640 sloppy

00:49:44.200 on his

00:49:44.740 part

00:49:45.080 for

00:49:45.280 this

00:49:45.520 supposedly

00:49:46.360 brilliant

00:49:47.000 PhD

00:49:47.720 student

00:49:48.260 in

00:49:48.540 criminology

00:49:49.320 one

00:49:51.320 wonders

00:49:51.760 what would

00:49:52.180 have

00:49:52.320 left

00:49:52.640 would

00:49:52.960 have

00:49:53.060 what

00:49:53.240 would

00:49:53.360 have

00:49:53.500 caused

00:49:53.940 him

00:49:54.280 to

00:49:54.820 leave

00:49:55.060 such

00:49:55.240 a

00:49:55.400 crucial

00:49:55.780 piece

00:49:56.080 of

00:49:56.200 evidence

00:49:56.460 behind

00:49:56.980 and

00:49:57.660 it

00:49:57.780 does

00:49:58.020 reveal

00:49:58.300 that

00:49:58.460 they

00:49:58.600 found

00:49:59.120 DNA

00:49:59.880 on

00:50:01.020 part

00:50:01.340 of

00:50:01.460 that

00:50:01.640 knife

00:50:02.140 sheath

00:50:02.780 so

00:50:02.940 talk

00:50:03.180 about

00:50:03.400 that

00:50:03.580 that

00:50:03.900 evidence

00:50:04.320 yeah

00:50:05.360 that

00:50:05.620 really

00:50:05.940 surprised

00:50:06.560 me

00:50:06.700 again

00:50:06.920 because

00:50:07.220 it's

00:50:07.440 like

00:50:07.560 everybody's

00:50:08.080 been

00:50:08.220 sort of

00:50:08.480 talking

00:50:08.780 this

00:50:09.000 guy

00:50:09.180 up

00:50:09.380 in

00:50:09.500 terms

00:50:09.720 of

00:50:09.820 you know

00:50:10.000 he's

00:50:10.180 brilliant

00:50:10.580 he's

00:50:10.840 getting

00:50:11.000 his

00:50:11.220 PhD

00:50:11.560 in

00:50:11.760 criminology

00:50:12.420 but

00:50:13.240 the

00:50:13.460 knife

00:50:13.780 sheath

00:50:14.160 was

00:50:14.380 found

00:50:14.840 on

00:50:15.180 the

00:50:15.360 bed

00:50:15.860 next

00:50:16.440 to

00:50:16.600 one

00:50:16.740 of

00:50:16.880 the

00:50:17.000 victims

00:50:17.340 right

00:50:17.620 there

00:50:17.920 by

00:50:18.260 her

00:50:18.500 side

00:50:18.940 and

00:50:20.020 on

00:50:20.320 the

00:50:20.500 knife

00:50:20.840 sheath

00:50:21.300 there's

00:50:21.860 like

00:50:22.000 a

00:50:22.120 little

00:50:22.260 button

00:50:22.660 where

00:50:22.880 clips

00:50:23.340 closed

00:50:23.980 and

00:50:24.440 they

00:50:24.620 found

00:50:25.140 DNA

00:50:25.540 on

00:50:26.140 the

00:50:26.500 button

00:50:26.880 of

00:50:27.540 the

00:50:27.700 knife

00:50:27.940 sheath

00:50:28.340 when

00:50:29.140 they

00:50:29.280 eventually

00:50:29.700 tracked

00:50:30.260 cover

00:50:30.960 back

00:50:31.480 to

00:50:31.680 Pennsylvania

00:50:32.200 where

00:50:32.720 he

00:50:32.920 was

00:50:33.100 staying

00:50:33.380 with

00:50:33.600 his

00:50:33.820 parents

00:50:34.460 during

00:50:35.460 the

00:50:35.680 holidays

00:50:36.240 FBI

00:50:37.400 went

00:50:37.900 to

00:50:38.240 a

00:50:38.460 trash

00:50:38.840 can

00:50:39.200 got

00:50:39.940 trash

00:50:40.500 out

00:50:40.700 of

00:50:40.800 the

00:50:40.920 trash

00:50:41.220 can

00:50:41.480 and

00:50:41.640 it

00:50:41.720 was

00:50:41.860 DNA

00:50:42.240 from

00:50:42.920 the

00:50:43.080 trash

00:50:43.420 can

00:50:43.740 that

00:50:43.920 ended

00:50:44.160 up

00:50:44.460 matching

00:50:44.840 up

00:50:45.220 with

00:50:45.600 what

00:50:45.780 they

00:50:45.940 found

00:50:46.340 on

00:50:46.700 the

00:50:46.880 button

00:50:47.260 of

00:50:48.140 the

00:50:48.280 knife

00:50:48.560 wait

00:50:49.200 it

00:50:49.480 matched

00:50:49.880 Brian

00:50:51.680 what I

00:50:52.460 read

00:50:52.700 was

00:50:53.140 they

00:50:53.840 found

00:50:54.180 the

00:50:54.380 dad's

00:50:54.940 DNA

00:50:55.300 in

00:50:55.540 the

00:50:55.660 garbage

00:50:55.960 and

00:50:56.420 they

00:50:56.560 were

00:50:56.700 not

00:50:56.960 able

00:50:57.200 to

00:50:57.420 rule

00:50:57.700 out

00:50:58.140 that

00:50:58.820 the

00:50:59.000 dad

00:50:59.400 basically

00:51:00.020 what

00:51:01.020 the

00:51:01.180 DNA

00:51:01.380 showed

00:51:01.700 them

00:51:01.900 was

00:51:02.220 this

00:51:02.580 guy

00:51:02.900 who

00:51:03.180 lives

00:51:03.420 here

00:51:03.580 is

00:51:03.800 the

00:51:03.920 father

00:51:04.160 of

00:51:04.340 the

00:51:04.440 killer

00:51:04.660 correct

00:51:05.560 that's

00:51:06.040 correct

00:51:06.360 and

00:51:06.640 what

00:51:06.860 happened

00:51:07.340 is

00:51:07.480 when

00:51:07.640 they

00:51:07.800 went

00:51:08.120 and

00:51:08.700 finally

00:51:09.780 arrested

00:51:10.280 Brian

00:51:10.720 they

00:51:11.460 did

00:51:11.780 a

00:51:12.100 search

00:51:12.360 warrant

00:51:12.680 of

00:51:12.920 the

00:51:13.200 house

00:51:13.500 where

00:51:13.660 they

00:51:13.760 arrested

00:51:14.040 him

00:51:14.240 but

00:51:14.540 they

00:51:14.680 also

00:51:14.880 did

00:51:15.040 a

00:51:15.160 search

00:51:15.340 warrant

00:51:21.680 connected

00:51:21.960 up

00:51:22.220 and

00:51:22.540 they

00:51:22.760 can

00:51:22.880 do

00:51:23.000 that

00:51:23.140 within

00:51:23.460 one

00:51:23.760 day

00:51:23.980 here

00:51:24.180 at

00:51:24.280 the

00:51:24.380 Idaho

00:51:24.620 State

00:51:24.880 Crime

00:51:25.140 Lab

00:51:25.460 but

00:51:25.880 you're

00:51:26.040 right

00:51:26.220 in

00:51:26.340 the

00:51:26.420 affidavit

00:51:27.220 it

00:51:27.660 connected

00:51:28.100 back

00:51:28.380 to

00:51:28.520 his

00:51:28.680 father

00:51:29.100 I

00:51:29.680 guess

00:51:29.880 that

00:51:30.040 piece

00:51:30.200 of

00:51:30.320 trash

00:51:30.640 had

00:51:30.860 something

00:51:31.280 with

00:51:31.860 his

00:51:32.020 father's

00:51:32.420 DNA

00:51:32.660 on

00:51:32.900 also

00:51:33.480 interesting

00:51:34.000 was

00:51:34.520 they

00:51:34.940 they'd

00:51:35.560 been

00:51:35.760 following

00:51:36.620 him

00:51:37.060 the

00:51:37.260 FBI

00:51:37.580 for

00:51:37.880 at

00:51:38.020 least

00:51:38.160 four

00:51:38.440 days

00:51:38.820 I

00:51:39.560 don't

00:51:39.740 know

00:51:39.920 if

00:51:40.060 I

00:51:40.160 believe

00:51:40.380 the

00:51:40.540 timeline

00:51:40.900 it

00:51:41.320 seems

00:51:41.960 like

00:51:42.120 the

00:51:42.220 FBI

00:51:42.500 was

00:51:43.160 certainly

00:51:43.420 on

00:51:43.760 to

00:51:43.860 him

00:51:44.040 for

00:51:44.200 more

00:51:44.340 than

00:51:44.460 four

00:51:44.660 days

00:51:45.020 but

00:51:45.460 they

00:51:45.580 admit

00:51:45.820 the

00:51:45.960 affidavit

00:51:46.400 to

00:51:46.580 a

00:51:46.820 four

00:51:47.000 day

00:51:47.180 follow

00:51:47.520 or

00:51:47.840 you

00:51:47.980 know

00:51:48.080 sort

00:51:48.240 of

00:51:48.400 surveillance

00:51:48.960 on

00:51:49.640 him

00:51:49.780 prior

00:51:50.000 to

00:51:50.120 the

00:51:50.200 arrest

00:51:50.560 which

00:51:51.120 I

00:51:51.200 think

00:51:51.300 was

00:51:51.420 December

00:51:51.720 29

00:51:52.100 and

00:51:53.200 they

00:51:54.800 saw

00:51:55.800 him

00:51:56.300 once

00:51:56.600 he

00:51:56.680 got

00:51:56.780 back

00:51:56.980 to

00:51:57.080 his

00:51:57.200 parents

00:51:57.480 house

00:51:57.700 he

00:51:57.840 drove

00:51:58.200 cross

00:51:58.480 country

00:51:58.680 with

00:51:58.920 his

00:51:59.060 dad

00:51:59.300 started

00:51:59.580 the

00:51:59.740 murder

00:51:59.980 was

00:52:00.160 November

00:52:00.480 13th

00:52:01.240 November

00:52:01.500 15th

00:52:02.260 his

00:52:02.380 dad

00:52:02.560 had

00:52:02.700 flown

00:52:03.080 one

00:52:03.440 way

00:52:03.760 from

00:52:04.440 the

00:52:04.620 Poconos

00:52:05.060 Pennsylvania

00:52:05.640 to

00:52:06.660 Washington

00:52:07.620 State

00:52:07.980 where

00:52:08.220 Brian

00:52:09.460 was

00:52:10.320 at

00:52:11.140 school

00:52:11.500 and

00:52:12.160 so

00:52:12.280 December

00:52:12.720 15th

00:52:13.360 they

00:52:13.480 start

00:52:13.820 their

00:52:14.260 cross

00:52:14.540 country

00:52:14.840 journey

00:52:15.180 together

00:52:15.620 and

00:52:16.540 they

00:52:17.080 so

00:52:18.820 by the

00:52:19.080 time

00:52:19.240 he

00:52:19.320 gets

00:52:19.440 back

00:52:19.600 to

00:52:19.680 the

00:52:19.800 Poconos

00:52:20.100 they

00:52:20.500 they

00:52:21.060 were

00:52:21.180 watching

00:52:21.540 him

00:52:21.840 and

00:52:22.680 they

00:52:23.220 saw

00:52:23.600 him

00:52:24.080 reportedly

00:52:25.280 take

00:52:26.140 his

00:52:26.880 garbage

00:52:27.520 Brian

00:52:28.120 Kohlberger

00:52:28.500 the

00:52:28.700 suspect

00:52:28.940 take

00:52:29.300 his

00:52:29.500 garbage

00:52:29.780 out

00:52:29.940 of

00:52:30.020 his

00:52:30.120 parents

00:52:30.380 house

00:52:30.680 and

00:52:31.300 try

00:52:31.480 to

00:52:31.680 dump

00:52:31.960 it

00:52:32.120 in

00:52:32.320 the

00:52:32.500 neighbor's

00:52:33.180 trash

00:52:34.180 bin

00:52:34.580 have

00:52:35.020 you

00:52:35.120 seen

00:52:35.260 this

00:52:35.420 report

00:52:35.820 I've

00:52:36.620 seen

00:52:36.780 that

00:52:36.980 report

00:52:37.440 which

00:52:37.800 which

00:52:38.180 is

00:52:38.320 really

00:52:38.560 interesting

00:52:39.000 and

00:52:39.340 you

00:52:39.520 mentioned

00:52:39.740 they

00:52:39.920 were

00:52:40.080 we

00:52:40.560 know

00:52:40.900 they

00:52:41.040 were

00:52:41.160 following

00:52:41.600 him

00:52:41.900 for

00:52:42.060 at

00:52:42.160 least

00:52:42.280 four

00:52:42.480 days

00:52:42.700 but

00:52:42.900 it

00:52:43.440 goes

00:52:43.680 back

00:52:43.980 like

00:52:44.180 a

00:52:44.320 month

00:52:44.520 I

00:52:44.660 mean

00:52:44.720 they

00:52:44.840 first

00:52:45.120 became

00:52:45.460 aware

00:52:45.740 of

00:52:45.920 Kohlberger

00:52:46.320 almost

00:52:47.360 a little

00:52:48.080 more

00:52:48.340 than

00:52:48.500 a month

00:52:48.800 ago

00:52:49.220 it

00:52:50.140 all

00:52:50.500 started

00:52:50.820 with

00:52:51.040 the

00:52:51.180 car

00:52:51.500 with

00:52:51.820 the

00:52:51.960 Hyundai

00:52:52.200 Elantra

00:52:52.740 they

00:52:53.740 put

00:52:53.960 out

00:52:54.140 a

00:52:54.360 be

00:52:54.700 on

00:52:54.820 the

00:52:54.940 look

00:52:55.080 out

00:52:55.220 with

00:52:55.360 local

00:52:55.640 law

00:52:55.880 enforcement

00:52:56.300 it

00:52:56.780 was

00:52:56.920 an

00:52:57.060 officer

00:52:57.480 in

00:52:57.840 Washington

00:52:58.280 state

00:52:58.900 in

00:52:59.480 Pullman

00:52:59.820 where

00:53:00.000 he

00:53:00.100 was

00:53:00.180 going

00:53:00.340 to

00:53:00.480 school

00:53:00.840 who

00:53:01.360 spotted

00:53:01.880 a

00:53:02.340 car

00:53:02.700 an

00:53:03.580 Elantra

00:53:04.060 and

00:53:04.780 then

00:53:04.900 they

00:53:05.040 traced

00:53:05.340 that

00:53:05.580 back

00:53:05.860 to

00:53:06.040 Brian

00:53:06.340 and

00:53:06.500 that's

00:53:06.760 sort

00:53:06.880 of

00:53:06.980 what

00:53:07.100 started

00:53:07.420 the

00:53:07.580 whole

00:53:07.780 process

00:53:08.420 that's

00:53:09.080 when

00:53:09.340 they

00:53:09.780 started

00:53:10.800 trying to

00:53:11.600 ping

00:53:11.740 the

00:53:11.920 cell

00:53:12.140 phone

00:53:12.420 and

00:53:12.580 figure

00:53:12.800 out

00:53:12.960 what

00:53:13.100 was

00:53:13.240 going

00:53:13.460 on

00:53:13.660 but

00:53:13.820 he's

00:53:14.340 been

00:53:14.460 on

00:53:14.660 their

00:53:14.840 radar

00:53:15.160 for

00:53:15.740 a

00:53:16.160 month

00:53:16.440 which

00:53:16.760 having

00:53:17.200 been

00:53:17.460 here

00:53:17.780 all

00:53:18.080 of

00:53:18.220 this

00:53:18.380 time

00:53:18.780 like

00:53:19.280 they

00:53:19.480 have

00:53:19.720 been

00:53:19.900 so

00:53:20.320 quiet

00:53:20.880 and

00:53:21.120 it

00:53:21.280 seemed

00:53:21.500 many

00:53:21.940 days

00:53:22.260 like

00:53:22.460 they

00:53:22.640 absolutely

00:53:23.200 had

00:53:23.560 nothing

00:53:24.020 and

00:53:24.820 what's

00:53:25.040 so

00:53:25.180 interesting

00:53:25.480 to me

00:53:25.760 about

00:53:25.940 this

00:53:26.180 affidated

00:53:26.540 is

00:53:26.760 like

00:53:26.940 they

00:53:27.120 have

00:53:27.260 had

00:53:27.400 a

00:53:27.580 ton

00:53:27.980 of

00:53:28.220 information

00:53:28.700 for

00:53:28.980 a

00:53:29.140 long

00:53:29.480 time

00:53:29.980 they've

00:53:30.540 just

00:53:30.720 been

00:53:30.940 super

00:53:31.360 super

00:53:31.720 tight

00:53:32.060 lipped

00:53:32.280 about

00:53:32.580 it

00:53:32.760 with

00:53:33.140 the

00:53:33.260 media

00:53:33.480 and

00:53:33.640 also

00:53:33.860 with

00:53:34.040 the

00:53:34.160 families

00:53:34.640 or

00:53:35.440 have

00:53:35.660 been

00:53:35.860 smartly

00:53:36.380 misleading

00:53:36.900 because

00:53:37.320 they

00:53:37.540 said

00:53:37.800 among

00:53:38.160 other

00:53:38.380 things

00:53:38.680 that

00:53:38.980 the

00:53:39.480 two

00:53:39.780 other

00:53:40.140 roommates

00:53:40.620 didn't

00:53:41.260 see

00:53:41.420 anything

00:53:41.740 and

00:53:42.360 that

00:53:42.560 was

00:53:42.680 clearly

00:53:42.940 done

00:53:43.140 for

00:53:43.300 the

00:53:43.380 protection

00:53:43.740 of

00:53:44.260 the

00:53:44.380 other

00:53:44.560 roommates

00:53:44.880 because

00:53:45.160 the

00:53:45.360 one

00:53:45.540 roommate

00:53:45.840 absolutely

00:53:46.620 saw

00:53:47.080 something

00:53:47.420 that

00:53:47.680 would

00:53:47.980 prove

00:53:48.220 to be

00:53:48.460 extremely

00:53:49.060 important

00:53:49.980 tell us

00:53:50.460 about

00:53:50.620 it

00:53:50.860 yeah

00:53:51.300 that

00:53:51.540 was

00:53:51.740 like

00:53:51.900 another

00:53:52.160 jaw

00:53:52.520 dropping

00:53:53.020 thing

00:53:54.480 I mean

00:53:54.840 because

00:53:55.280 we were

00:53:55.580 told

00:53:55.800 all along

00:53:56.180 that

00:53:56.300 the

00:53:56.420 other

00:53:56.600 two

00:53:56.800 surviving

00:53:57.200 roommates

00:53:57.460 were

00:53:57.660 sleeping

00:53:58.160 and

00:53:59.240 then

00:53:59.480 the

00:53:59.700 affidavit

00:54:00.020 comes

00:54:00.260 out

00:54:00.460 and

00:54:00.700 it

00:54:00.940 says

00:54:01.400 that

00:54:01.600 one

00:54:01.860 of

00:54:02.020 them

00:54:02.220 was

00:54:02.520 awake

00:54:03.200 and

00:54:03.960 heard

00:54:09.780 man's

00:54:10.120 voice

00:54:10.500 and

00:54:11.340 then

00:54:11.580 at

00:54:11.740 one

00:54:11.980 point

00:54:12.500 looks

00:54:12.840 out

00:54:13.000 the

00:54:13.140 door

00:54:13.460 and

00:54:13.740 also

00:54:14.000 by

00:54:14.200 the

00:54:14.320 way

00:54:14.500 we

00:54:14.700 thought

00:54:15.020 that

00:54:15.580 the

00:54:15.760 surviving

00:54:16.060 roommates

00:54:16.400 were

00:54:16.560 on the

00:54:16.900 ground

00:54:17.620 floor

00:54:18.020 it's a

00:54:18.220 three

00:54:18.380 story

00:54:18.580 house

00:54:18.900 one

00:54:19.360 of

00:54:19.500 them

00:54:19.660 who

00:54:19.840 actually

00:54:20.160 heard

00:54:20.420 these

00:54:20.620 things

00:54:20.840 was

00:54:21.000 on

00:54:21.160 the

00:54:21.320 second

00:54:21.660 floor

00:54:22.100 where

00:54:22.440 the

00:54:22.840 killer

00:54:23.080 allegedly

00:54:23.520 came

00:54:23.880 in

00:54:24.120 so

00:54:24.680 not

00:54:24.920 only

00:54:25.100 did

00:54:25.300 she

00:54:25.440 hear

00:54:25.640 things

00:54:26.000 but

00:54:26.300 she

00:54:26.540 looked

00:54:26.920 out

00:54:27.420 the

00:54:28.000 door

00:54:28.320 of

00:54:28.540 the

00:54:28.900 bedroom

00:54:29.180 she

00:54:29.360 was

00:54:29.540 in

00:54:29.780 and

00:54:30.260 she

00:54:30.520 saw

00:54:31.040 the

00:54:31.480 killer

00:54:31.780 she

00:54:32.340 saw

00:54:33.060 him

00:54:33.280 walk

00:54:33.620 by

00:54:33.960 that

00:54:34.180 he

00:54:34.340 had

00:54:34.520 a

00:54:34.680 mask

00:54:35.260 on

00:54:35.820 and

00:54:36.400 that

00:54:36.580 he

00:54:36.800 had

00:54:37.040 bushy

00:54:37.480 eyebrows

00:54:38.160 and

00:54:38.560 she

00:54:38.780 saw

00:54:39.080 him

00:54:39.260 go

00:54:39.460 in

00:54:39.580 the

00:54:39.700 direction

00:54:40.160 of

00:54:40.800 the

00:54:40.980 back

00:54:41.300 sliding

00:54:41.780 glass

00:54:42.180 door

00:54:42.500 all

00:54:43.160 of

00:54:43.340 that

00:54:43.600 nobody

00:54:44.280 knew

00:54:44.600 that

00:54:44.960 on

00:54:45.540 the

00:54:45.680 outside

00:54:46.100 until

00:54:46.520 yesterday

00:54:47.040 and

00:54:47.500 the

00:54:47.640 bushy

00:54:47.920 eyebrows

00:54:48.400 thing

00:54:48.620 is

00:54:48.760 interesting

00:54:49.100 because

00:54:49.300 I

00:54:49.400 mentioned

00:54:49.740 how

00:54:50.120 it

00:54:50.840 was

00:54:51.160 that

00:54:51.400 officer

00:54:51.920 initially

00:54:52.600 in

00:54:52.940 Washington

00:54:53.460 who

00:54:54.040 saw

00:54:54.400 an

00:54:54.620 Elantra

00:54:55.120 and

00:54:55.420 notified

00:54:56.160 the

00:54:56.500 police

00:54:56.800 here

00:54:56.980 in

00:54:57.120 Moscow

00:54:57.500 they

00:54:58.880 actually

00:54:59.880 made

00:55:00.220 the

00:55:00.420 bushy

00:55:00.740 eyebrow

00:55:01.380 connection

00:55:01.920 early

00:55:02.280 on

00:55:02.620 which

00:55:02.880 is

00:55:03.060 what

00:55:03.640 started

00:55:03.940 to

00:55:04.080 get

00:55:04.180 the

00:55:04.320 ball

00:55:04.500 rolling

00:55:04.840 where

00:55:05.000 they

00:55:05.100 started

00:55:05.360 looking

00:55:05.640 into

00:55:06.020 Kober

00:55:06.480 because

00:55:07.320 when

00:55:07.600 the

00:55:07.760 local

00:55:08.020 authorities

00:55:08.620 put

00:55:08.980 out

00:55:09.180 the

00:55:09.460 Bolo

00:55:10.180 the

00:55:10.380 be

00:55:10.500 on

00:55:10.620 the

00:55:10.740 lookout

00:55:10.960 for

00:55:11.220 a

00:55:11.360 white

00:55:12.600 Hyundai

00:55:12.880 Elantra

00:55:13.400 and

00:55:13.840 it's

00:55:13.960 amazing

00:55:14.200 because

00:55:14.360 the

00:55:14.480 FBI

00:55:14.720 came

00:55:15.000 in

00:55:15.120 and

00:55:15.200 there's

00:55:15.360 some

00:55:15.620 guy

00:55:15.740 at

00:55:15.840 the

00:55:15.900 FBI

00:55:16.140 whose

00:55:16.340 job

00:55:16.680 it

00:55:16.820 is

00:55:17.120 to

00:55:17.700 look

00:55:18.100 at

00:55:18.240 cars

00:55:18.660 in

00:55:18.940 surveillance

00:55:19.320 videos

00:55:19.780 you

00:55:20.320 know

00:55:20.420 because

00:55:20.580 everything

00:55:20.880 is

00:55:21.000 on

00:55:21.120 surveillance

00:55:21.460 now

00:55:21.720 we've

00:55:22.000 got

00:55:22.120 cameras

00:55:22.740 everywhere

00:55:23.060 whether

00:55:23.360 it's

00:55:23.580 somebody's

00:55:23.980 Nest

00:55:24.340 camera

00:55:25.200 on their

00:55:25.720 home

00:55:26.720 or

00:55:27.320 it's

00:55:27.560 the

00:55:27.800 you know

00:55:28.200 at

00:55:28.460 the

00:55:28.700 Shell

00:55:29.060 gasoline

00:55:29.640 there's

00:55:30.580 just

00:55:30.780 you

00:55:31.020 can't

00:55:31.480 get

00:55:31.600 away

00:55:31.860 and

00:55:32.340 they

00:55:32.500 said

00:55:32.740 that

00:55:32.840 there

00:55:32.960 are

00:55:33.080 very

00:55:33.340 few

00:55:33.760 cars

00:55:34.140 that

00:55:34.360 went

00:55:34.540 by

00:55:34.880 this

00:55:35.280 residential

00:55:35.740 area

00:55:37.180 at

00:55:37.920 this

00:55:38.220 hour

00:55:38.700 of

00:55:39.060 the

00:55:39.220 night

00:55:39.520 so

00:55:40.080 they

00:55:40.280 had

00:55:40.520 it

00:55:40.640 down

00:55:40.800 to

00:55:40.920 a

00:55:41.020 couple

00:55:41.200 of

00:55:41.340 cars

00:55:41.580 including

00:55:41.880 this

00:55:42.160 one

00:55:42.380 and

00:55:42.560 they

00:55:42.720 figured

00:55:43.180 out

00:55:43.380 pretty

00:55:43.540 quickly

00:55:43.820 this

00:55:44.560 was

00:55:44.680 their

00:55:44.860 favorite

00:55:45.260 car

00:55:45.600 the

00:55:46.320 white

00:55:46.500 Hyundai

00:55:46.700 Elantra

00:55:47.000 so

00:55:47.260 the

00:55:47.380 FBI

00:55:47.860 is

00:55:48.040 the

00:55:48.120 one

00:55:48.220 who

00:55:48.320 says

00:55:48.500 that's

00:55:48.800 a

00:55:48.880 white

00:55:49.020 Hyundai

00:55:49.240 Elantra

00:55:49.660 it's

00:55:50.180 maybe

00:55:50.480 between

00:55:50.860 2011

00:55:51.380 and

00:55:51.600 2013

00:55:51.980 then

00:55:52.320 he

00:55:52.440 changed

00:55:52.780 it

00:55:52.960 to

00:55:53.060 maybe

00:55:53.200 could

00:55:53.380 be

00:55:53.500 later

00:55:53.760 model

00:55:54.140 as

00:55:54.480 it

00:55:54.580 turned out

00:55:54.820 to be

00:55:55.020 it was

00:55:55.180 2015

00:55:55.540 and

00:55:55.800 the

00:55:55.880 guy

00:55:55.980 changed

00:55:56.340 it

00:55:56.480 to

00:55:56.640 could

00:55:57.100 be

00:55:57.220 up

00:55:57.320 to

00:55:57.400 2016

00:55:57.940 so

00:55:58.380 he

00:55:58.500 was

00:55:58.600 right

00:55:58.860 and

00:55:59.420 they

00:55:59.520 put

00:55:59.620 on

00:55:59.740 the

00:55:59.880 Bolo

00:56:00.140 on

00:56:00.440 it

00:56:00.560 and

00:56:01.260 then

00:56:01.360 the

00:56:01.480 Washington

00:56:01.800 state

00:56:02.220 employee

00:56:02.760 says

00:56:03.060 I'm

00:56:03.400 going to

00:56:03.500 take

00:56:03.600 look

00:56:16.700 on

00:56:17.160 him

00:56:17.400 then

00:56:18.180 unbeknownst

00:56:18.700 to

00:56:18.800 us

00:56:19.040 they're

00:56:19.360 talking

00:56:19.700 to

00:56:19.920 one

00:56:20.080 of

00:56:20.160 the

00:56:20.260 surviving

00:56:20.620 roommates

00:56:20.980 who

00:56:21.180 says

00:56:21.440 he

00:56:21.920 had

00:56:22.060 a

00:56:22.140 mask

00:56:22.400 on

00:56:22.540 like

00:56:22.720 not

00:56:22.980 a

00:56:23.160 ski

00:56:23.340 mask

00:56:23.620 but

00:56:23.760 like

00:56:23.920 a

00:56:24.100 covid

00:56:24.600 mask

00:56:24.980 and

00:56:25.860 what

00:56:26.560 I

00:56:26.680 remember

00:56:26.960 was

00:56:27.160 his

00:56:27.300 bushy

00:56:27.560 eyebrows

00:56:27.960 which

00:56:28.200 you

00:56:28.320 can

00:56:28.440 plainly

00:56:28.820 see

00:56:29.140 apparently

00:56:29.920 in

00:56:30.360 his

00:56:30.580 ID

00:56:30.880 photo

00:56:31.340 it

00:56:31.580 is

00:56:31.740 an

00:56:31.840 identifying

00:56:32.320 so

00:56:32.920 now

00:56:33.140 they're

00:56:33.320 starting

00:56:33.560 to

00:56:33.740 put

00:56:33.840 it

00:56:33.940 together

00:56:34.300 exactly

00:56:35.040 that's

00:56:35.500 exactly

00:56:35.840 right

00:56:36.120 and

00:56:36.280 they

00:56:36.400 had

00:56:36.640 surveillance

00:56:37.240 video

00:56:37.660 from

00:56:37.860 a

00:56:38.000 house

00:56:38.220 next

00:56:38.520 door

00:56:38.860 also

00:56:39.600 that

00:56:40.480 caught

00:56:40.720 the

00:56:40.860 car

00:56:41.040 but

00:56:41.160 also

00:56:41.480 caught

00:56:41.900 what

00:56:42.120 sounded

00:56:42.400 like

00:56:42.640 the

00:56:42.780 dog

00:56:43.060 barking

00:56:43.420 and

00:56:43.660 some

00:56:43.820 other

00:56:44.040 noises

00:56:44.400 coming

00:56:44.720 from

00:56:44.920 the

00:56:45.040 house

00:56:45.240 again

00:56:45.780 all

00:56:46.180 of

00:56:46.340 this

00:56:46.500 was

00:56:46.680 a

00:56:46.820 surprise

00:56:47.240 because

00:56:47.540 they

00:56:47.720 must

00:56:47.900 have

00:56:48.020 taken

00:56:48.240 that

00:56:48.460 camera

00:56:48.760 down

00:56:49.060 early

00:56:49.320 on

00:56:49.580 I

00:56:49.920 could

00:56:52.000 never

00:56:52.240 find

00:56:52.600 the

00:56:53.080 camera

00:56:53.440 it

00:56:54.060 just

00:56:54.280 amazes

00:56:54.800 me

00:56:55.160 that

00:56:55.800 this

00:56:56.260 small

00:56:57.120 police

00:56:57.500 department

00:56:57.860 got

00:56:58.180 so

00:56:58.520 much

00:56:58.820 heat

00:56:59.280 for

00:56:59.720 so

00:57:00.020 long

00:57:00.580 from

00:57:01.440 the

00:57:01.860 media

00:57:02.200 and

00:57:02.500 from

00:57:02.760 some

00:57:02.940 of

00:57:03.060 the

00:57:03.200 families

00:57:03.640 and

00:57:04.600 from

00:57:04.760 people

00:57:04.980 in

00:57:05.100 the

00:57:05.200 community

00:57:05.620 and

00:57:05.900 that

00:57:06.060 they

00:57:06.960 kept

00:57:07.640 a

00:57:07.820 poker

00:57:08.020 face

00:57:08.360 on

00:57:08.660 but

00:57:09.040 behind

00:57:09.460 the

00:57:09.680 scenes

00:57:10.040 they

00:57:10.360 were

00:57:11.100 on it

00:57:16.040 they

00:57:16.280 knew

00:57:16.660 that

00:57:16.920 car

00:57:17.260 didn't

00:57:17.860 have

00:57:18.000 a

00:57:18.120 front

00:57:18.300 license

00:57:18.720 plate

00:57:19.080 they

00:57:19.340 figured

00:57:19.680 out

00:57:19.920 that

00:57:20.080 it

00:57:20.200 had

00:57:20.340 been

00:57:20.520 registered

00:57:21.020 in

00:57:21.780 that

00:57:22.180 Brian

00:57:22.620 had

00:57:23.240 been

00:57:23.460 in

00:57:23.620 Pennsylvania

00:57:24.200 the

00:57:24.520 year

00:57:24.700 before

00:57:25.180 we're

00:57:26.020 going

00:57:26.100 to

00:57:26.140 bring

00:57:26.300 you

00:57:26.460 in

00:57:26.720 criminal

00:57:27.800 defense

00:57:28.120 attorney

00:57:28.460 and

00:57:28.940 civil

00:57:29.160 law

00:57:29.360 attorney

00:57:29.640 as

00:57:29.800 well

00:57:30.020 they

00:57:30.780 knew

00:57:31.040 that

00:57:31.200 it

00:57:31.360 was

00:57:31.500 registered

00:57:32.000 that

00:57:32.460 it

00:57:33.200 license

00:57:33.560 plate

00:57:33.740 well

00:57:33.900 in

00:57:34.020 Washington

00:57:34.360 state

00:57:34.660 you

00:57:34.780 have

00:57:34.960 to

00:57:35.060 have

00:57:35.220 one

00:57:35.380 in

00:57:35.460 the

00:57:35.560 front

00:57:35.740 and

00:57:35.940 the

00:57:36.060 back

00:57:36.260 but

00:57:36.420 in

00:57:36.560 Pennsylvania

00:57:36.920 you

00:57:37.300 don't

00:57:37.820 and

00:57:38.720 they

00:57:39.060 started

00:57:39.340 to

00:57:39.560 put

00:57:39.740 it

00:57:39.860 together

00:57:40.180 one

00:57:40.520 bit

00:57:41.100 by

00:57:41.380 bit

00:57:41.800 that

00:57:42.440 this

00:57:42.680 could

00:57:43.000 potentially

00:57:43.480 be

00:57:43.720 their

00:57:43.920 guy

00:57:44.240 but

00:57:44.500 now

00:57:44.660 that

00:57:44.860 leads

00:57:45.140 me

00:57:45.380 to

00:57:45.780 what

00:57:46.860 happened

00:57:47.480 okay

00:57:48.000 because

00:57:48.380 it

00:57:48.640 was

00:57:48.920 hold

00:57:49.100 on

00:57:49.240 I

00:57:49.380 actually

00:57:49.920 wrote

00:57:50.400 this

00:57:50.620 down

00:57:50.900 okay

00:57:51.960 it

00:57:54.100 was

00:57:54.320 11

00:57:54.920 again

00:57:55.420 1113

00:57:56.020 is

00:57:56.220 when

00:57:56.340 the

00:57:56.440 murders

00:57:56.640 happened

00:57:56.980 1125

00:57:57.820 Moscow

00:57:58.380 cops

00:58:03.200 1129

00:58:03.720 Washington

00:58:04.820 State

00:58:05.160 University

00:58:05.560 cops

00:58:06.020 identify

00:58:06.760 this

00:58:07.240 guy

00:58:07.620 the

00:58:07.900 suspect

00:58:08.300 Brian

00:58:08.660 Kohlberger

00:58:09.040 as

00:58:09.760 having

00:58:10.080 a

00:58:10.540 white

00:58:10.720 Hyundai

00:58:11.000 Elantra

00:58:11.520 by

00:58:12.120 this

00:58:12.360 point

00:58:12.600 certainly

00:58:12.920 the

00:58:13.120 cops

00:58:13.360 know

00:58:13.660 the

00:58:14.200 bushy

00:58:14.500 eyebrow

00:58:14.820 description

00:58:15.340 and so

00:58:16.200 on

00:58:16.440 from

00:58:16.740 the

00:58:17.320 surviving

00:58:17.660 roommate

00:58:18.060 so

00:58:19.120 by

00:58:19.280 1129

00:58:19.840 they

00:58:20.220 have

00:58:20.620 this

00:58:21.160 guy's

00:58:21.460 name

00:58:21.780 from

00:58:22.240 Washington

00:58:22.600 State

00:58:22.880 University

00:58:23.320 as

00:58:23.580 a

00:58:23.680 driver

00:58:23.920 of

00:58:24.080 a

00:58:24.180 white

00:58:24.320 Hyundai

00:58:24.540 Elantra

00:58:24.960 Elantra

00:58:25.600 10

00:58:25.860 miles

00:58:26.120 away

00:58:26.400 they

00:58:27.060 got

00:58:27.180 the

00:58:27.280 description

00:58:27.580 of

00:58:27.700 the

00:58:27.800 bushy

00:58:28.020 eyebrows

00:58:28.380 they

00:58:28.640 got

00:58:28.780 this

00:58:28.960 guy's

00:58:29.220 picture

00:58:29.540 that's

00:58:29.780 1129

00:58:30.380 so

00:58:31.620 you

00:58:31.840 tell

00:58:32.100 me

00:58:32.300 whether

00:58:32.500 you

00:58:32.700 believe

00:58:33.260 the

00:58:34.060 denials

00:58:34.580 that

00:58:34.800 by

00:58:35.000 1215

00:58:36.000 when

00:58:36.460 he

00:58:36.620 took

00:58:36.980 the

00:58:37.200 cross

00:58:38.060 country

00:58:38.500 car

00:58:38.840 trip

00:58:39.060 with

00:58:39.260 his

00:58:39.400 dad

00:58:39.640 back

00:58:39.880 to

00:58:40.020 the

00:58:40.140 Poconos

00:58:40.540 the

00:58:41.540 law

00:58:41.740 enforcement

00:58:42.160 officials

00:58:42.880 now

00:58:43.100 are

00:58:43.320 denying

00:58:43.920 that

00:58:44.740 the

00:58:44.880 two

00:58:45.080 traffic

00:58:45.480 stops

00:58:45.840 he

00:58:46.000 was

00:58:46.140 subjected

00:58:46.500 to

00:58:46.740 in

00:58:46.880 Indiana

00:58:47.320 were

00:58:48.240 pushed

00:58:48.940 by

00:58:49.120 the

00:58:49.280 FBI

00:58:49.620 everybody

00:58:50.400 believes

00:58:50.860 the

00:58:50.980 FBI

00:58:51.260 made

00:58:51.500 those

00:58:51.680 things

00:58:51.840 happen

00:58:52.180 get

00:58:52.640 him

00:58:52.740 on

00:58:52.900 camera

00:58:53.320 get

00:58:53.880 it

00:58:54.040 check

00:58:54.640 out

00:58:54.780 his

00:58:54.900 demeanor

00:58:55.420 see

00:58:55.920 what

00:58:56.080 we

00:58:56.200 can

00:58:56.340 find

00:58:56.740 they

00:58:56.940 happened

00:58:57.240 very

00:58:57.480 close

00:58:57.760 together

00:58:58.160 for

00:58:58.620 some

00:58:58.760 reason

00:58:58.960 in

00:58:59.160 Indiana

00:58:59.580 but

00:59:00.480 officially

00:59:01.100 law

00:59:01.480 enforcement

00:59:01.760 authorities

00:59:02.100 are

00:59:02.260 saying

00:59:02.520 the

00:59:03.060 FBI

00:59:03.340 did

00:59:03.540 not

00:59:03.740 order

00:59:03.960 those

00:59:04.300 Indiana

00:59:04.680 state

00:59:04.960 police

00:59:05.240 are

00:59:05.400 saying

00:59:05.660 they

00:59:06.100 did

00:59:06.260 not

00:59:06.440 order

00:59:06.700 these

00:59:07.200 they

00:59:07.940 were

00:59:08.140 organic

00:59:08.640 but

00:59:09.240 there

00:59:09.380 are

00:59:09.560 reports

00:59:09.900 from

00:59:10.060 one

00:59:10.340 source

00:59:11.020 quoting

00:59:11.820 law

00:59:12.020 enforcement

00:59:12.280 officials

00:59:12.660 one

00:59:12.840 from

00:59:12.980 CNN

00:59:13.920 saying

00:59:14.880 the

00:59:15.040 FBI

00:59:15.260 was

00:59:15.460 behind

00:59:15.680 both

00:59:15.940 of

00:59:16.060 them

00:59:16.320 what

00:59:16.480 do

00:59:16.560 you

00:59:16.600 make

00:59:16.740 of

00:59:16.840 it

00:59:17.360 yeah

00:59:17.880 you

00:59:18.200 know

00:59:18.400 I'm

00:59:18.720 kind

00:59:18.960 of

00:59:19.040 with

00:59:19.220 you

00:59:19.320 I

00:59:19.460 find

00:59:19.700 it

00:59:19.820 hard

00:59:20.000 to

00:59:20.160 believe

00:59:20.400 that

00:59:20.580 they

00:59:20.720 were

00:59:20.900 two

00:59:21.240 organic

00:59:22.020 stops

00:59:22.720 especially

00:59:23.160 knowing

00:59:23.660 what

00:59:23.920 we

00:59:24.120 know

00:59:24.460 now

00:59:25.160 like

00:59:25.400 originally

00:59:26.100 when I

00:59:26.500 heard

00:59:26.700 that

00:59:26.880 I

00:59:27.120 thought

00:59:27.400 maybe

00:59:27.820 the

00:59:28.380 cops

00:59:28.700 were

00:59:28.860 going

00:59:28.960 to

00:59:29.080 try

00:59:29.360 to

00:59:29.560 get

00:59:29.780 DNA

00:59:30.320 from

00:59:30.760 him

00:59:31.000 at

00:59:31.360 that

00:59:31.640 stop

00:59:32.240 somehow

00:59:33.100 some

00:59:33.660 way

00:59:33.960 but

00:59:34.220 it

00:59:34.440 didn't

00:59:34.680 happen

00:59:34.940 that's

00:59:35.200 why

00:59:35.300 they

00:59:35.460 had

00:59:35.600 to

00:59:35.760 dig

00:59:36.560 through

00:59:36.960 the

00:59:37.440 father's

00:59:38.000 garbage

00:59:38.380 cans

00:59:38.740 which

00:59:38.980 as

00:59:39.280 we

00:59:39.460 garbage

00:59:40.000 is

00:59:40.240 fair

00:59:40.420 game

00:59:40.740 there's

00:59:41.000 no

00:59:41.120 expectation

00:59:41.680 of

00:59:41.860 privacy

00:59:42.200 and

00:59:42.400 garbage

00:59:42.700 it's

00:59:43.360 also

00:59:43.580 sometimes

00:59:44.020 not

00:59:44.220 the

00:59:44.380 best

00:59:44.620 source

00:59:45.040 of

00:59:45.320 DNA

00:59:45.740 but

00:59:46.600 then

00:59:46.960 that

00:59:47.280 didn't

00:59:47.560 happen

00:59:47.840 they

00:59:48.020 really

00:59:48.280 just

00:59:48.520 got

00:59:48.680 to

00:59:48.860 eyeball

00:59:49.340 him

00:59:49.700 eyeball

00:59:50.180 the

00:59:50.400 dad

00:59:50.760 and

00:59:51.340 then

00:59:51.580 that

00:59:52.000 was

00:59:52.200 it

00:59:52.400 but

00:59:52.620 to

00:59:53.260 think

00:59:53.580 that

00:59:53.760 they

00:59:53.960 were

00:59:54.840 regular

00:59:56.040 old

00:59:56.360 traffic

00:59:56.700 stops

00:59:57.000 having

00:59:57.280 nothing

00:59:57.660 to do

00:59:58.020 with

00:59:58.180 anything

00:59:58.580 I

00:59:58.840 also

00:59:59.120 find

00:59:59.440 that

00:59:59.600 hard

00:59:59.820 to

00:59:59.960 believe

01:00:00.260 I

01:00:00.540 know

01:00:00.820 I

01:00:01.040 have

01:00:01.220 to

01:00:01.300 say

01:00:01.460 I'm

01:00:01.620 calling

01:00:01.920 BS

01:00:02.320 on

01:00:02.580 it

01:00:02.820 doesn't

01:00:04.000 ring

01:00:04.340 true

01:00:04.620 to

01:00:04.780 me

01:00:05.020 there

01:00:05.700 was

01:00:06.040 videotape

01:00:06.740 of

01:00:07.020 each

01:00:07.280 stop

01:00:07.660 one

01:00:08.080 is

01:00:08.660 very

01:00:08.960 poor

01:00:09.340 one

01:00:09.580 just

01:00:09.760 basically

01:00:10.080 shows

01:00:10.400 the

01:00:10.560 ground

01:00:10.960 which

01:00:11.620 some

01:00:11.860 are

01:00:12.000 arguing

01:00:12.320 supports

01:00:12.820 the

01:00:13.000 cops

01:00:13.240 assertion

01:00:13.740 that

01:00:13.900 it

01:00:14.020 wasn't

01:00:14.260 an

01:00:14.380 FBI

01:00:14.700 directive

01:00:15.860 because

01:00:16.180 they

01:00:16.300 would

01:00:16.420 have

01:00:16.500 been

01:00:16.640 better

01:00:16.940 cameramen

01:00:17.500 with

01:00:17.780 their

01:00:17.900 body

01:00:18.160 cams

01:00:18.680 if

01:00:19.520 this

01:00:19.760 were

01:00:19.900 the

01:00:20.020 goal

01:00:20.380 but

01:00:22.240 anyway

01:00:22.540 we'll

01:00:22.900 show

01:00:23.120 it

01:00:23.240 to

01:00:23.360 you

01:00:23.620 it's

01:00:23.940 hard

01:00:24.100 to

01:00:24.200 hear

01:00:24.340 as

01:00:24.500 well

01:00:24.660 it's

01:00:24.840 still

01:00:25.000 interesting

01:00:25.400 though

01:00:25.660 okay

01:00:25.900 here's

01:00:26.220 stop

01:00:26.700 number

01:00:27.020 one

01:00:27.540 the

01:00:28.140 first

01:00:28.440 stop

01:00:28.800 was

01:00:29.160 by

01:00:29.400 the

01:00:29.600 state

01:00:29.880 troopers

01:00:30.540 in

01:00:30.980 Indiana

01:00:31.540 sorry

01:00:31.940 forget

01:00:32.280 forgive

01:00:32.640 me

01:00:32.880 Indiana

01:00:33.540 sheriff's

01:00:34.000 deputy

01:00:34.260 first

01:00:34.700 Indiana

01:00:35.200 state

01:00:35.520 trooper

01:00:35.860 second

01:00:36.240 is

01:00:36.420 my

01:00:36.560 understanding

01:00:37.060 here's

01:00:37.960 the

01:00:38.080 first

01:00:38.300 stop

01:00:38.560 both

01:00:38.800 stops

01:00:39.080 were

01:00:39.240 allegedly

01:00:39.540 for

01:00:39.800 tailgating

01:00:40.500 I mean

01:00:41.280 you gotta

01:00:41.620 think

01:00:42.020 what an

01:00:42.580 oh shit

01:00:43.200 moment

01:00:43.640 for this

01:00:44.100 defendant

01:00:44.500 if he

01:00:45.280 really

01:00:45.600 murdered

01:00:46.000 these

01:00:46.240 four

01:00:46.460 people

01:00:46.820 and he's

01:00:47.460 driving

01:00:47.780 cross

01:00:48.120 country

01:00:48.500 you know

01:00:49.000 what

01:00:49.380 a month

01:00:49.900 later

01:00:50.260 with his

01:00:50.760 dad

01:00:51.060 and he

01:00:51.740 gets pulled

01:00:52.240 over

01:00:52.440 you see

01:00:52.740 the red

01:00:53.080 siren

01:00:53.420 you know

01:00:53.920 behind

01:00:54.280 you

01:00:54.580 here's

01:00:55.560 the first

01:00:55.940 stop

01:00:56.200 on camera

01:00:56.620 this is

01:00:56.920 a 36

01:00:57.460 second

01:00:58.160 soundbite

01:00:58.800 number

01:00:59.120 two

01:00:59.620 hello

01:01:00.680 how y'all

01:01:02.160 doing today

01:01:02.700 good

01:01:04.320 good

01:01:04.740 take a look

01:01:05.480 at your

01:01:05.600 driver's

01:01:06.000 license

01:01:06.220 real quick

01:01:06.680 if I could

01:01:07.160 he's right

01:01:09.580 up on that

01:01:10.140 van man

01:01:10.940 he's right

01:01:12.820 up on the

01:01:13.340 back end

01:01:13.760 of that

01:01:14.000 van

01:01:14.420 pulled you

01:01:15.060 over

01:01:15.220 for

01:01:15.420 tailgating

01:01:15.980 this your

01:01:17.980 car

01:01:18.320 okay

01:01:19.320 cool

01:01:20.280 where are

01:01:21.280 you headed

01:01:21.560 well

01:01:25.780 we're coming

01:01:26.680 from

01:01:26.960 WSU

01:01:27.800 what's

01:01:32.960 WSU

01:01:33.640 all right

01:01:37.300 so he's

01:01:37.660 kind of

01:01:37.960 chatty

01:01:38.420 I don't

01:01:38.780 know

01:01:38.960 John

01:01:39.220 is that

01:01:39.600 suspicious

01:01:40.040 because usually

01:01:40.660 you get

01:01:40.960 pulled over

01:01:41.360 and the

01:01:41.540 cops like

01:01:42.000 license and

01:01:42.640 registration

01:01:43.120 ma'am

01:01:43.960 and then

01:01:44.240 you're like

01:01:44.560 oh you're

01:01:45.640 the one

01:01:45.840 trying to

01:01:46.120 make

01:01:46.240 conversation

01:01:46.780 he's

01:01:47.080 like

01:01:47.260 shut

01:01:47.640 up

01:01:47.800 here's

01:01:48.060 your

01:01:48.140 ticket

01:01:48.380 yeah

01:01:49.740 right

01:01:49.980 or you're

01:01:50.520 crying

01:01:50.900 I mean

01:01:51.280 that's

01:01:51.560 the other

01:01:51.820 thing

01:01:52.080 the other

01:01:52.780 suspicious

01:01:53.420 thing is

01:01:54.340 I don't

01:01:54.880 think he

01:01:55.180 got a

01:01:55.540 ticket

01:01:55.840 either

01:01:56.560 time

01:01:57.080 and

01:01:57.340 now

01:01:57.800 when I

01:01:58.220 get pulled

01:01:58.540 over

01:01:58.760 I typically

01:01:59.220 walk away

01:01:59.800 with a

01:02:00.340 ticket

01:02:00.620 so I

01:02:01.300 really think

01:02:01.740 they're

01:02:01.900 efficient

01:02:02.180 for something

01:02:02.640 imagine

01:02:03.100 if he

01:02:03.540 had

01:02:03.740 I don't

01:02:04.440 know

01:02:04.640 if he

01:02:05.060 had an

01:02:05.340 open

01:02:05.640 container

01:02:06.220 in the

01:02:06.560 car

01:02:06.800 and the

01:02:07.100 police

01:02:07.340 could get

01:02:07.580 their hands

01:02:07.960 on that

01:02:08.280 and get

01:02:08.560 their DNA

01:02:09.000 but it

01:02:09.360 didn't

01:02:09.600 work out

01:02:10.020 that way

01:02:10.700 nice

01:02:11.300 try

01:02:11.760 okay

01:02:12.240 so I

01:02:13.300 agree

01:02:13.900 and I

01:02:14.380 suppose

01:02:14.720 it doesn't

01:02:15.340 really

01:02:15.740 matter

01:02:16.900 in the

01:02:17.540 grand

01:02:17.820 scheme

01:02:18.300 it's not

01:02:18.760 going to

01:02:19.360 affect

01:02:19.600 whether or

01:02:19.940 not he

01:02:20.140 gets

01:02:20.380 convicted

01:02:21.220 if the

01:02:22.160 FBI

01:02:22.560 were behind

01:02:23.180 that

01:02:23.540 those two

01:02:24.560 stops

01:02:25.300 right

01:02:25.780 not that he

01:02:26.300 didn't get a

01:02:26.880 ticket for that

01:02:27.460 but it is

01:02:28.740 very interesting

01:02:29.380 because we

01:02:30.060 like we

01:02:31.220 all mentioned

01:02:31.820 we had no

01:02:32.600 idea that the

01:02:33.260 police were

01:02:33.680 really onto

01:02:34.400 this I

01:02:34.700 mean it

01:02:34.940 seems to

01:02:35.340 me

01:02:35.620 the spark

01:02:36.920 that

01:02:37.480 that lit

01:02:38.820 the flame

01:02:39.400 was really

01:02:40.660 the car

01:02:41.880 and how

01:02:42.640 that's so

01:02:43.320 needle in a

01:02:44.120 haystack

01:02:44.720 but then that

01:02:45.400 led to another

01:02:46.060 piece and that

01:02:46.840 led to another

01:02:47.480 piece and before

01:02:48.380 you know it

01:02:48.800 they had enough

01:02:49.320 probable cause

01:02:50.580 and that's

01:02:51.300 really all

01:02:51.780 where we are

01:02:52.600 right now

01:02:53.140 to get him

01:02:54.400 arrested

01:02:55.000 but before

01:02:56.640 that before

01:02:57.420 that they had

01:02:58.040 enough probable

01:02:58.620 cause Brian to

01:02:59.320 get a search

01:02:59.900 warrant on the

01:03:00.660 phones you

01:03:01.660 can't they

01:03:02.040 can't just go

01:03:02.560 to AT&T and

01:03:03.420 say give me

01:03:03.880 all of Megan

01:03:04.300 Kelly's records

01:03:04.980 or this guy

01:03:05.940 Brian's records

01:03:06.660 they need

01:03:07.440 probable cause to

01:03:08.320 get AT&T to

01:03:09.120 fork over

01:03:09.620 your cell

01:03:10.620 phone history

01:03:11.220 and the

01:03:11.680 search warrant

01:03:12.220 the affidavit

01:03:13.900 in support

01:03:14.440 of the

01:03:14.760 arrest warrant

01:03:15.440 they got

01:03:15.980 says they

01:03:17.320 did get a

01:03:17.900 search warrant

01:03:18.380 to go

01:03:18.920 to AT&T

01:03:19.860 and get

01:03:20.300 this guy's

01:03:21.200 cell phone

01:03:21.900 records

01:03:22.400 which were

01:03:23.300 a treasure

01:03:23.960 trove

01:03:24.480 yeah let me

01:03:25.960 let me tell

01:03:26.520 you why

01:03:27.040 I think it

01:03:28.940 is interesting

01:03:29.840 that they

01:03:30.220 pulled them

01:03:30.580 over twice

01:03:31.220 but I think

01:03:32.120 that it

01:03:32.440 might not

01:03:32.940 be the

01:03:34.480 FBI behind

01:03:35.340 it

01:03:35.540 this has

01:03:35.900 been an

01:03:36.180 airtight

01:03:36.620 case with

01:03:37.180 no leaks

01:03:37.660 we've been

01:03:38.040 digging

01:03:38.200 every day

01:03:38.680 for stuff

01:03:39.120 and we

01:03:39.440 haven't

01:03:39.760 come up

01:03:40.060 with anything

01:03:40.460 until the

01:03:41.000 probable cause

01:03:41.560 came up

01:03:41.880 do you

01:03:42.360 really think

01:03:42.800 the FBI

01:03:43.240 is going

01:03:43.560 to involve

01:03:43.980 this local

01:03:44.600 sheriff's

01:03:45.080 office

01:03:45.320 and then

01:03:46.020 the Indiana

01:03:47.100 state police

01:03:48.260 separately

01:03:48.860 and open

01:03:50.220 that up

01:03:50.700 to like

01:03:51.040 all these

01:03:51.560 agencies

01:03:51.980 now being

01:03:52.580 involved

01:03:53.120 I mean

01:03:53.640 it just

01:03:54.220 seems like

01:03:54.820 they would

01:03:55.040 want to

01:03:55.340 keep it

01:03:55.980 controlled

01:03:57.420 and then

01:03:58.180 the other

01:03:58.540 reason I

01:03:58.920 think it

01:03:59.400 might not

01:03:59.940 be the

01:04:00.180 FBI

01:04:00.460 behind it

01:04:00.980 is because

01:04:01.460 both the

01:04:02.540 sheriff's

01:04:03.000 office

01:04:03.240 and the

01:04:04.220 Indiana

01:04:04.900 state police

01:04:05.740 both put

01:04:06.480 out separate

01:04:07.160 statements to

01:04:07.960 the media

01:04:08.480 explaining the

01:04:09.740 traffic stops

01:04:10.500 and saying that

01:04:11.160 they were

01:04:11.440 normal traffic

01:04:12.120 stops so that

01:04:13.000 would mean that

01:04:13.420 right now not

01:04:13.900 only is the

01:04:14.260 FBI lying but

01:04:15.460 that both of

01:04:16.100 those police

01:04:17.180 agencies are

01:04:17.840 also well they

01:04:18.800 do lie they

01:04:19.760 also said the

01:04:20.380 other roommate

01:04:20.900 didn't see

01:04:21.720 anything that was

01:04:22.480 clearly a lie now

01:04:23.400 we know that was

01:04:23.840 a lie they

01:04:24.300 that's a good

01:04:25.020 point for good

01:04:26.160 reasons I mean I

01:04:27.060 get it but you

01:04:27.820 know it's just

01:04:28.340 very coincidental

01:04:29.120 that within like

01:04:29.860 10 minutes I

01:04:30.400 don't know it's

01:04:30.620 like very close

01:04:31.400 together the guy

01:04:32.600 gets stopped

01:04:33.100 not for

01:04:33.400 speeding but

01:04:33.920 for tailgating

01:04:34.820 have you ever

01:04:35.300 gotten stopped

01:04:35.780 for tailgating

01:04:36.560 here's the

01:04:37.580 here's the audio

01:04:38.420 and for the

01:04:39.240 YouTube videos

01:04:39.940 watchers the

01:04:40.920 video of the

01:04:42.020 second stop in

01:04:42.720 Indiana is

01:04:43.440 short

01:04:43.660 it's so weird

01:04:59.540 I mean truly

01:05:00.040 you're both guys

01:05:01.260 stopped him for

01:05:01.940 tailgating okay

01:05:02.940 it's bizarre but

01:05:03.900 explain to me

01:05:04.620 Brian how we

01:05:05.280 have 1129

01:05:07.140 Washington State

01:05:08.120 University cops

01:05:08.940 identifying this

01:05:10.560 guy as as the

01:05:13.560 one who's driving

01:05:14.580 the white Hyundai

01:05:15.620 Elantra right

01:05:17.460 that's like and

01:05:18.280 then they look him

01:05:18.940 up and they see

01:05:19.560 the bushy eyebrows

01:05:20.360 and they have the

01:05:21.020 roommates description

01:05:21.880 at this point so

01:05:23.660 by 1129 they've

01:05:24.940 got that and by

01:05:26.320 1215 we're

01:05:27.900 supposed to believe

01:05:28.420 they're not tracking

01:05:29.060 him and they say

01:05:29.900 they didn't begin

01:05:30.560 tracking him until

01:05:31.440 four days before

01:05:32.920 the 1229 arrest

01:05:34.200 that does not

01:05:35.400 make sense to me

01:05:36.460 yeah I think they

01:05:37.640 clearly had an eye

01:05:38.400 on him they also

01:05:39.100 by the way when

01:05:39.760 they found out the

01:05:40.440 name immediately

01:05:41.160 started looking into

01:05:42.100 his past found out

01:05:43.120 about that he was

01:05:43.760 getting his PhD in

01:05:44.920 criminology they

01:05:45.820 found that Reddit

01:05:46.780 study have you seen

01:05:48.300 that Reddit study

01:05:49.080 Megan where where

01:05:50.580 he put out these

01:05:51.560 this questionnaire

01:05:52.880 trying to find out

01:05:54.020 how criminals feel

01:05:55.340 in the moment and

01:05:56.160 what what causes

01:05:57.320 criminals to act the

01:05:58.340 way they do they

01:05:58.960 found that very

01:05:59.860 early on I mean so

01:06:01.360 clearly they were

01:06:02.100 keeping an eye on him

01:06:03.100 at that point you've

01:06:03.760 got to imagine they

01:06:04.540 had a sense that they

01:06:05.360 had their guy at that

01:06:06.320 point well the other

01:06:07.200 thing is John so

01:06:08.020 certainly they did

01:06:08.880 start surveillance by

01:06:09.760 their own admission

01:06:10.400 when he got back to

01:06:11.260 the Poconos with his

01:06:12.060 dad they say that

01:06:12.800 that was a pre-purchase

01:06:13.660 plane ticket by the

01:06:14.700 dad that it had been

01:06:16.400 planned the kid the guy

01:06:17.800 Brian had been is it

01:06:20.040 Cole burger is that how

01:06:20.900 we're pronouncing his

01:06:21.540 last name Brian Cole

01:06:22.440 burger it's Cole burger

01:06:24.320 so no Al co-burger

01:06:25.500 co-burger okay so

01:06:27.200 Brian co-burger had

01:06:28.800 been raised by his

01:06:29.460 parents in Pennsylvania

01:06:30.180 and he had gone

01:06:31.380 undergrad and for his

01:06:32.520 master's degree at

01:06:34.100 DeSales University in

01:06:35.780 Pennsylvania so he was

01:06:37.220 new to the Washington

01:06:38.320 state region as of I

01:06:40.580 think that summer that

01:06:42.160 summer of 2022 very

01:06:44.380 shortly before he

01:06:45.180 allegedly committed

01:06:45.960 these murders and his

01:06:47.400 dad had according to

01:06:48.520 the authorities pre

01:06:49.520 planned a trip out

01:06:50.240 there to drive cross

01:06:51.020 country home with him

01:06:51.840 in his car the dad a

01:06:54.120 custodian the mom a

01:06:56.140 substitute teacher it's

01:06:57.540 so sad they have no

01:06:59.400 money they reportedly

01:07:00.500 had to declare chapter

01:07:01.560 seven bankruptcy twice

01:07:02.900 this poor family they

01:07:04.280 can't afford to really

01:07:05.300 help this guy legally

01:07:06.240 right now he's a public

01:07:07.200 defender but anyway so

01:07:08.740 when he gets back to

01:07:09.660 them Jonna he's staying

01:07:11.240 at the dad's house the

01:07:12.160 mom and dad's house and

01:07:13.580 there are reports now

01:07:14.720 that I'm pretty sure I

01:07:16.180 got this from the

01:07:16.600 affidavit that he they

01:07:18.620 observed the suspect

01:07:19.860 take the trash bags out

01:07:22.620 of the parents house

01:07:23.500 one night and instead

01:07:25.440 of putting them in

01:07:26.280 their trash bins put

01:07:28.300 them in the neighbor's

01:07:29.720 trash bins it is from

01:07:31.760 the affidavit and the

01:07:32.580 cops said they went and

01:07:35.080 retrieved what what

01:07:37.340 Kelly Kelly McGuire my

01:07:39.020 all right it's from

01:07:40.380 reporting they the cops

01:07:43.280 went and retrieved the

01:07:43.960 bags so the interesting

01:07:45.660 thing Jonna is that now

01:07:46.800 the cops have those bags

01:07:47.760 if something was in

01:07:48.620 them that was important

01:07:49.480 enough for the suspect to

01:07:50.460 try to get them out of

01:07:51.320 his own dad's trash bins

01:07:53.040 and now the cops have

01:07:54.580 them and not only that

01:07:55.820 but I'm sure they have a

01:07:56.640 search affidavit that

01:07:57.660 they've executed on

01:07:58.640 Brian Koberger's apartment

01:08:00.500 back at WSU inside his

01:08:03.320 parents house like there

01:08:05.140 could be a treasure trove

01:08:06.440 of evidence in all all

01:08:08.140 three of those things

01:08:09.020 there very well could be

01:08:10.960 and and hopefully we will

01:08:12.660 find that out in the

01:08:13.680 coming weeks and months

01:08:14.940 but really the only thing

01:08:16.700 we know for certain now is

01:08:18.060 what's containing the

01:08:18.820 probable cause affidavit

01:08:19.820 because that's all they

01:08:21.260 needed they they had

01:08:22.480 just enough and maybe a

01:08:23.520 little bit more than

01:08:24.180 enough to get the job

01:08:25.580 done and get this man

01:08:27.620 arrested so he can have

01:08:29.500 his preliminary hearing

01:08:30.380 and we can we can figure

01:08:31.500 out what else there is in

01:08:33.500 there because the other

01:08:34.260 thing I mean I am

01:08:35.680 fascinated by this case

01:08:36.820 first of all my heart

01:08:37.620 goes out to the families

01:08:38.480 this is a horrific case

01:08:39.880 but from a purely legal

01:08:41.620 perspective I'm fascinated

01:08:43.600 by many things already not

01:08:46.380 the least of which if if

01:08:47.580 part of the theory is this

01:08:48.780 guy thought he was the

01:08:49.540 smartest guy in the room

01:08:50.360 and he wanted to commit

01:08:51.040 the perfect murder and

01:08:51.780 that's just supposition at

01:08:53.320 this point I mean you take

01:08:55.900 the garbage and you put it

01:08:56.980 in the neighbor's can like

01:08:58.480 I can find better ways to

01:08:59.960 get rid of evidence other

01:09:01.140 than just going to the

01:09:02.500 next driveway and putting

01:09:03.880 trash in somebody else's

01:09:05.180 bin especially if I don't

01:09:07.280 know if he thought did he

01:09:08.940 think he was being

01:09:10.040 surveilled at this point did

01:09:11.900 he know he was being

01:09:12.960 watched was he doing some

01:09:14.000 of this on purpose I and

01:09:15.680 again these are all just

01:09:16.840 mysterious parts of of of

01:09:18.660 the case at the moment but

01:09:20.380 yeah he certainly isn't the

01:09:21.920 smartest guy in the room and

01:09:23.980 also I'm finding interesting

01:09:25.420 that some of the probable

01:09:27.620 cause contained in the

01:09:28.700 affidavit I am certain his

01:09:30.980 attorneys right now are

01:09:32.020 finding alternate

01:09:33.020 explanations for innocent

01:09:34.680 explanations for which is

01:09:36.140 going to be another battle

01:09:37.820 that I foresee coming in this

01:09:39.300 case I want to talk about

01:09:40.620 that so first of all there's

01:09:41.840 no question that the police

01:09:42.860 are tearing through that car

01:09:44.040 bit by bit by bit and

01:09:45.660 they're going to remove the

01:09:46.340 dashboard they're going to

01:09:47.200 remove the gear control

01:09:48.980 they're going to remove

01:09:49.560 everything looking for is

01:09:51.060 again this is according to

01:09:52.240 them the alleged car the

01:09:53.620 killer got into after he

01:09:55.280 committed these four

01:09:55.920 murders so there might be

01:09:57.660 blood there might be trace

01:09:58.480 evidence there could be

01:09:59.200 great evidence that ties him

01:10:00.620 to these murders same thing

01:10:02.020 with his apartment or did

01:10:03.400 he leave any clothes behind

01:10:04.520 is there any trace DNA in

01:10:06.580 the washer dryer all that

01:10:08.800 stuff's going to be poured

01:10:09.620 over the affidavit is only

01:10:11.800 what they the bare minimum

01:10:13.580 they needed to get the

01:10:14.320 arrest it's not their whole

01:10:15.840 case so as you point out

01:10:17.840 Brian if they've actually

01:10:19.460 tied his DNA to the murder

01:10:23.140 victims bodies to anything

01:10:25.300 having you know in connect

01:10:26.760 with the scene the case gets

01:10:27.880 exponentially stronger but

01:10:29.640 Jonna if you just go off of

01:10:30.840 the affidavit I gotta say

01:10:33.520 from the defense lawyer I'm

01:10:36.360 like I got one thing I need to

01:10:38.700 explain and that's why the

01:10:40.720 dad's you know there's some

01:10:42.280 sort of a match on the

01:10:43.720 button of that knife sheath

01:10:45.680 but that's not the worst

01:10:47.480 thing to have to explain

01:10:48.600 like I can explain the car

01:10:50.180 there's a neighbor he lives

01:10:51.600 next to who says he's a he

01:10:53.160 stays up all night all night

01:10:54.420 he can't sleep it's annoying

01:10:55.500 he's up at like one in the

01:10:56.700 morning vacuuming always has

01:10:58.120 been okay so I'm the

01:10:59.640 defense I'm like he likes to

01:11:00.580 drive his car he this is 10

01:11:02.300 miles away it's kind of in

01:11:03.040 the neighborhood of course

01:11:03.900 with the fact that you see

01:11:05.260 his car in the neighborhood

01:11:07.000 tells us nothing you know

01:11:09.340 where's the bushy eyebrows

01:11:10.960 that's not gonna do it one

01:11:12.840 white Hyundai Elantra's how

01:11:14.200 many of those and by the way

01:11:15.180 you don't even know if it

01:11:15.780 was a white hat right so

01:11:16.660 it's that one button they

01:11:19.840 need more they need more for

01:11:21.140 conviction oh they absolutely

01:11:23.620 do and that one but you

01:11:25.180 honed in exactly on the piece

01:11:26.720 that I honed in on like how

01:11:28.120 does his DNA get there and

01:11:30.080 one of the things that his

01:11:30.880 attorneys will also explore

01:11:32.460 well wait a minute this

01:11:34.380 testing wasn't as if they

01:11:36.960 took tissue from a victim's

01:11:39.100 you know under their nails

01:11:39.940 and then mass directed to

01:11:41.100 the tissue of Brian this was

01:11:42.600 genealogy this was DNA once

01:11:44.920 removed maybe it's not as

01:11:46.480 reliable as other DNA testing

01:11:49.080 and and if there's one speck

01:11:51.560 there I mean you're you know

01:11:53.660 how when they were describing

01:11:54.740 the cell phone pigs and it

01:11:56.460 was almost more incriminating

01:11:58.360 when there weren't any because

01:12:00.400 there should have been and that

01:12:02.180 was incriminating if this is

01:12:03.940 the type of case where we

01:12:05.580 are expecting a whole lot of

01:12:08.320 DNA so if it comes to pass that

01:12:11.080 the only DNA connection is a

01:12:13.580 dot on a sheath of a knife and

01:12:16.220 I'm not even certain it's the

01:12:17.960 sheath that was on the knife

01:12:19.400 that was the murder weapon

01:12:20.480 Megan I haven't read that yet I

01:12:22.200 know there was a sheath maybe it

01:12:24.000 was a different knife if that's

01:12:26.460 the only DNA connection the

01:12:28.340 prosecution will have problems

01:12:29.700 now again we are in the baby

01:12:31.200 stages of this what if they

01:12:33.320 um swab the car go through the

01:12:35.900 car with fine-toothed comb as

01:12:37.140 they should I don't care how

01:12:38.580 bad you try to bleach I don't

01:12:39.900 care how bad you try to clean

01:12:41.280 that type of murder scene is

01:12:43.560 going to leave clues everywhere

01:12:45.700 and you're not going to be able

01:12:46.720 to clean it up enough so I'm

01:12:48.160 again another point that we're

01:12:49.580 going to be hanging our hats on

01:12:51.360 in the future legally in Iowa

01:12:54.540 there's they don't really

01:12:55.880 recognize the insanity plea sorry

01:12:58.180 Idaho they don't really

01:12:59.320 recognize the insanity plea they

01:13:02.240 only want to determine if you can

01:13:03.720 understand the charges against

01:13:04.960 you he admitted he does at his

01:13:07.680 extradition hearing um they seem

01:13:10.560 to want to go for straight

01:13:11.460 acquittal on this that's what his

01:13:12.760 publicly appointed defense counsel

01:13:16.060 said that he believes he's going

01:13:17.440 to be exonerated Brian can we just

01:13:20.080 spend a minute on the roommate who

01:13:22.340 came forward and the sort of she's

01:13:24.980 taking I mean it's crazy to rip on

01:13:26.680 this poor girl like what what this

01:13:28.140 girl's been through too but people

01:13:29.840 are wondering why it took her so

01:13:31.500 many hours this is from the

01:13:32.960 affidavit um short okay so she says

01:13:36.440 she went to sleep on the second

01:13:37.360 floor she was awoken at 4 a.m what

01:13:39.440 sounded like her roommate Kaylee

01:13:40.720 playing with her dog in one of the

01:13:42.460 upstairs bedrooms on the third

01:13:43.660 floor she was on the second again

01:13:44.900 the murders happened both on the

01:13:46.120 second and third a short time later

01:13:48.160 this this gal they refer to her as

01:13:50.600 DM we know her name is Dylan a

01:13:52.440 short time later she heard who she

01:13:54.620 thought was Kaylee say something to

01:13:56.840 the effect of there's someone here

01:13:58.760 a review of records obtained from a

01:14:01.240 forensic download download of one of

01:14:04.780 the victims phones showed this could

01:14:06.440 also have been Zaina Kurnoodle as her

01:14:10.200 cellular phone indicated she was

01:14:12.260 likely awakened using the TikTok app at

01:14:14.320 4 12 a.m it's crazy again they think

01:14:17.000 the murders happened between 4 and 4

01:14:18.360 25 and they're showing one of the

01:14:20.540 victims on her TikTok app at 4 12 in

01:14:22.720 the morning Dylan said she she looked

01:14:25.380 out the bedroom out of her bedroom but

01:14:28.260 didn't see anything when she heard the

01:14:30.180 comment about someone being in the

01:14:31.260 house there's someone here Dylan said

01:14:34.140 she said she opened the door a second

01:14:36.480 time when she heard she thought what

01:14:38.660 she thought was crying coming out of

01:14:40.860 Zaina Kurnoodle's room Dylan then said

01:14:43.400 she heard a male voice say something to

01:14:46.080 the effect of it's okay I'm going to

01:14:48.700 help you oh so creepy knowing what we

01:14:50.800 know approximately 4 17 a.m a security

01:14:53.760 camera located next door which they say

01:14:56.380 was only 50 feet away picked up

01:15:00.120 distorted audio of what sounded like

01:15:01.800 voices or a whimper followed by a loud

01:15:05.380 thud a dog can also be heard barking

01:15:08.160 numerous times starting at 4 17 a.m again

01:15:11.560 when the security camera kicked on they

01:15:14.520 say Dylan stated she opened the door for

01:15:16.240 the third time after she heard the

01:15:19.040 crying and saw a figure clad in black

01:15:21.720 clothing and a mask that covered the

01:15:24.480 person's mouth and nose walking toward

01:15:25.960 her she described the figure as 5 foot

01:15:28.320 10 or taller male not very muscular

01:15:30.400 athletically built with bushy eyebrows

01:15:32.840 the male walked past her as she stood in

01:15:35.640 a quote frozen shock phase the male

01:15:38.560 walked toward the back sliding glass door

01:15:40.440 she locked herself in the room after

01:15:42.440 seeing the male she did not state that

01:15:44.700 she recognized him this leads investigators

01:15:46.600 to believe the murderer left the scene and

01:15:49.880 it was not until almost noon 11 58 a.m the

01:15:54.320 following morning that she or one or the

01:15:57.220 other girl finally called 9-1-1 what do we

01:16:01.620 make of that right yeah I mean super super

01:16:05.140 this is the big question I mean if you look

01:16:06.980 online and what everybody's talking about

01:16:09.140 this is the thing that's got everybody hung

01:16:11.700 up is how could she have seen the killer

01:16:15.580 and heard those things gone back into her

01:16:17.980 bedroom lock the door and then not called

01:16:20.020 9-1-1 until 11 58 a.m she says that she

01:16:23.600 was frozen in here I mean you know I've

01:16:26.820 never obviously been in a situation like

01:16:28.320 that I mean it sounds like that's certainly

01:16:29.700 possible you could be so scared there's

01:16:31.680 also something interesting in the in the

01:16:33.400 affidavit that kind of relates to this

01:16:34.620 the it says the co-burger went back and

01:16:37.700 drove by the house again according to the

01:16:40.200 cell phone pings around 9 15 a.m so maybe

01:16:45.280 she had some kind of sense that he was

01:16:47.440 going to come back or something and she

01:16:49.100 was just like hunkering down and scared

01:16:51.120 which he did drive by again I don't know

01:16:53.500 but but it's certain we don't understand

01:16:55.460 we don't have an 911 call that'll maybe

01:16:57.020 help explain it because there's apparently

01:16:59.340 a long 911 call comes in at 11 58 a.m

01:17:03.080 that we don't have our hands on but she

01:17:05.320 certainly waited a long time to call 911

01:17:07.240 it's I mean it was poor girl who could

01:17:09.940 who could know you know we're using our

01:17:11.400 own 2020 hindsight knowing what we know

01:17:13.420 yeah he also according to the cops sat

01:17:16.240 outside of these young women's house for

01:17:18.600 an hour in August in August and then then

01:17:22.560 you point out Brian he'd been there at

01:17:23.840 least 12 times or at least in the

01:17:26.200 vicinity Jonna that's his lawyer is going

01:17:27.860 to be like there in at the house is

01:17:30.260 different than in the vicinity um but if

01:17:34.280 this was true then and and one of the

01:17:36.900 victims claimed that she had been stalked

01:17:38.600 by somebody it's all you know potentially

01:17:41.180 coming together that he'd been watching

01:17:42.980 them for quite some time and had this

01:17:44.540 planned for quite some time panel thank

01:17:46.400 you both so much uh appreciate it we'll

01:17:48.180 do it again up next we're going to speak

01:17:49.780 with retired fbi criminal profiler

01:17:52.500 now we take a deep dive into the mind of

01:18:00.700 the suspect arrested in the Idaho college

01:18:02.440 murders with retired fbi agent and

01:18:04.540 criminal profiler famed criminal

01:18:06.320 profiler Candace DeLong

01:18:08.140 Candace was on the front lines of some of

01:18:10.340 the fbi's most gripping cases including

01:18:11.960 the Tylenol murders and was one of three

01:18:14.040 agents to carry out the manhunt for the

01:18:16.180 Unabomber she is the host of

01:18:17.940 investigation discoveries deadly women

01:18:20.260 and facing evil she also is the host of

01:18:23.320 the podcast killer psyche with Candace

01:18:26.100 DeLong Candace great to speak with you

01:18:27.740 again thank you so much for coming on

01:18:29.200 thanks for having me Megan nice to see

01:18:31.320 you yeah all right so let's start broad

01:18:34.240 and and let me ask you what you've

01:18:36.540 gleaned so far that's interesting to you

01:18:38.960 about this accused killer well from what

01:18:42.660 we know so far and of course what

01:18:45.960 interests me is the motivation of the

01:18:48.960 killer as well as other things one of the

01:18:52.840 things I find interesting and possibly

01:18:56.900 telling a lot of female friends from

01:19:01.100 high school college and even recently in

01:19:03.580 his grad program talk about him various

01:19:07.740 things to say no former girlfriend or

01:19:12.360 former intimate person has come forward

01:19:16.120 possibly because you know it could be oh my

01:19:18.640 gosh you know I was I wrong to be involved

01:19:22.100 with this guy but I wonder if he simply

01:19:25.360 hasn't had an intimate relationship a

01:19:31.020 romantic relationship and the reason I think

01:19:34.820 that is I without question these this was a

01:19:40.980 targeted murder and one of the one of the

01:19:45.460 victims the two blondes was brutalized

01:19:51.120 stabbed many more times than the other one I

01:19:54.400 think she was probably the target one of the

01:19:58.760 things that I think of regarding motivation is

01:20:04.100 was this motive there was no sexual assault but there

01:20:09.580 was certainly a display of anger and rage and

01:20:14.160 possibly revenge there are many murders and it's

01:20:20.420 happening more lately by men murdering women in this

01:20:25.560 way anger multiple stab wounds it's not it's rarely a gunshot

01:20:31.260 um it's a stabbing someone of course is in their face

01:20:35.420 personal I hate you I hate you that kind of thing

01:20:38.620 and that's what we see here so I am wondering if um he well

01:20:45.320 there's actually a term for it uh Megan and it's uh in cell which

01:20:50.000 stands for involuntarily celibate and there is a dark web uh on the dark

01:20:57.800 web there are message wars where these these guys talk about how much they hate

01:21:02.700 women and it's the what they blame the woman

01:21:05.780 or women in general for them not having for them not having

01:21:11.600 a girlfriend somebody that wants to be intimate with them

01:21:15.860 and we're seeing more and more of this the reason my mind is going there

01:21:21.420 is nobody has come forward and said

01:21:24.300 oh my gosh I dated this guy for for a couple of months I can't believe he did

01:21:28.600 that no nobody is and the female friends that

01:21:32.340 are talking about him friends nobody none of them has said yeah he you know

01:21:37.520 he's got a girlfriend he's always got a girlfriend

01:21:39.520 women love him and there are uh I have read reports of classmates

01:21:45.280 recently uh in his doctoral program that said various things about him that he

01:21:52.800 seemed to uh with his female colleagues or female uh students that he was

01:21:58.500 teaching uh angry uh short tempered that

01:22:03.940 kind of thing so um I think it's a real good

01:22:08.760 possibility that the motivation if he is the guy the motivation for this

01:22:15.080 was some kind of anger retaliatory um thing we know it was planned this murder

01:22:24.660 was planned uh it wasn't a spur of the moment

01:22:27.620 uh thing or maybe um one of the girls flipped him off and he got angry and

01:22:34.360 decided to go make her pay for doing that that isn't what happened here this um and we

01:22:40.880 know that his car was there before uh weeks before i think that he's

01:22:50.140 interesting thing about the forensic uh his knowledge of forensics he sure

01:22:55.920 didn't if he's a guy he sure didn't display them

01:22:58.780 uh in in carrying out this murder leaving behind something with his dna

01:23:04.080 um the pinging uh of of cell phones certainly why didn't he leave his cell

01:23:11.800 phone at home um things like that so i don't think and

01:23:16.940 some people have asked me do i think he was trying to see if he could

01:23:20.320 commit the perfect murder i do not think that i and the reason i don't think that

01:23:25.520 is there is a display of anger in at least the first person that was killed

01:23:32.800 the the young woman that received more stab wounds than anyone so why i know this

01:23:39.800 is all speculation of course but why if you were profiling these this guy for

01:23:44.140 the fbi would you think he'd go on to kill three more people in the house

01:23:49.240 including one of the young women's boyfriends good question the two young

01:23:55.660 women the blondes i've read that they were sleeping in the same bed

01:24:02.040 yeah they were best friends they were best friends so if he's after one the one

01:24:08.540 that he stabbed the most and there's another her friends right there of course

01:24:15.100 in his mind you have to kill her now the couple uh the boyfriend girlfriend

01:24:21.800 that's kind of a head scratcher if it is true if the information is accurate that they

01:24:30.740 were asleep when they were attacked then that would be the first question i'd ask

01:24:36.120 whoever the killer is well if they were asleep they were no threat to you why did

01:24:40.360 you do that and then um we have this uh information that the young woman that

01:24:48.440 actually saw him he walked by her um why didn't he kill her don't know we don't know

01:24:57.900 i do believe however your previous guests were talking what in the world was the deal

01:25:03.540 with the uh eight hours before she called i think she was in traumatic shock as a nurse i've seen it

01:25:10.980 and sometimes somebody can be in traumatic shock and not be able to speak or not be able to act or speak

01:25:20.520 for days and i think that's what happened here that's terrifying the what are and i know this is

01:25:28.960 right up your alley but do you believe if he did this that this was the first time he killed somebody

01:25:37.320 is i mean yes for people like it just seems forgive the word but more sophisticated than a first-time

01:25:45.620 killer would go for more more advanced more i don't know what the word is aggressive but what do you

01:25:50.280 think i do think it was probably the first time um he made a lot of mistakes i would be i mean people

01:25:59.240 get in their car after a murder pardon me and they are covered with blood and the blood transfers to

01:26:05.840 uh the seats leather fabric seats and they try to clean it up but it doesn't work you can't clean up

01:26:16.880 blood well enough that it can't be detected if there is a sophisticated forensic team looking for it

01:26:26.060 now you're right it's unusual for killers to start out with a mass this was a massacre it was a mass

01:26:40.520 murder um i don't know what that was his intention but i believe that he knew exactly who was in that

01:26:46.780 house when he went in and usually what we see with serial killers is they start acting out their

01:26:57.300 fantasies earlier than 28 and when they're teenagers they act out their fantasies on animals or uh other

01:27:07.780 other kids but it wouldn't necessarily be a murder for example uh and i this guy does not fall in the

01:27:14.980 category of serial killer okay but here's an example of what i'm talking about jeffrey dahmer um uh

01:27:22.540 started his his um killing in his 20s robert wrestler retired fbi profiler he's passed away now

01:27:33.120 one of the founders of the profiling program um advised the detectives once dahmer was in custody

01:27:40.620 go back and where he wherever he lived and look uh talk with the police see if they have any unsolved

01:27:50.040 murders of boys men or um animals where he's lived and they did and they found someone that was uh when

01:28:04.880 jeffrey was an adolescent i think 13 14 years old he was riding his bicycle in a residential area

01:28:11.840 and he was going one way and he sees a kid a younger kid on a bike coming toward him and you know when

01:28:20.340 you're a kid and you're riding a bike you're you know just you want to get home or wherever you're

01:28:25.520 going and jeffrey had a knife with him and as the boy passed him he reached over and

01:28:33.600 and then drove on and went on he was never caught for that and when wrestler interviewed him i believe

01:28:43.780 he admitted that but i'm not sure that but what i'm saying is killers that become serial killers

01:28:51.900 killers start acting their stuff out much sooner than this so you believe there will be something

01:29:00.260 in his background a prelude to this kind of violence there'll be something but i don't think

01:29:06.480 we're going to find a dead woman or a dead teenage girl i it's possible but i don't think so

01:29:12.020 i mean again he's from the poconos it's a very uh you know there's a lot of trees it's wooded

01:29:18.820 like there who knows and he was recently in this area so that probably wouldn't be the place to look

01:29:25.080 especially if he was casing this house almost as soon as he got there so he seems to have been

01:29:30.140 focused on one of these girls or more right from the get-go upon getting there as you point out there

01:29:35.980 could be misogyny there there could be you know given a terrible history with women the friends are

01:29:40.660 reporting he he did very poorly with women he used to be very overweight he lost the weight and then

01:29:47.780 became very aggressive became a bully um several friends started distancing themselves from him

01:29:53.420 um but he was high functioning candace he was getting his phd you know it's not like this guy

01:30:00.180 was unemployed as a homeless like he was high functioning so what what does that tell us

01:30:05.080 well um i don't think he he woke up one morning and said i think i'm gonna go kill some people

01:30:13.380 women i think i'm gonna do that i don't think that happened um as you mentioned he's uh according

01:30:20.100 to reports of people that knew him grow up grew up with him people that are in class with him uh

01:30:26.440 recently this past fall they all say the same thing and as i mentioned before no romantic partner

01:30:32.700 has come forward i don't think there is a romantic partner in his past um he probably what we do know

01:30:41.460 uh we meaning fbi uh profilers that interview people that do these kind of things they start

01:30:47.440 thinking about it much sooner than they did it revenge fantasies are um usually just fantasies

01:30:55.100 but sometimes uh in people that are disturbed they become more than a fantasy and they act it out

01:31:01.800 now wait let me jump in let me pause you right there because we're up against the end of our serious

01:31:07.120 show and um i want to continue this this is too good so to all my serious listeners uh just download

01:31:12.400 the podcast later and you can fast forward to this point and listen to the rest of this conversation

01:31:16.620 there's so much to go over with candace including whether this guy called in to a podcast we're

01:31:22.120 going to play you the clip and discuss whether it's him so stand by candace uh more with her on the pod

01:31:28.600 okay candace thank you first of all for sticking around so we were talking about sure how could you

01:31:36.820 be so high functioning and commit this crime like how it's in our minds of course we know there are

01:31:45.200 examples like ted bundy right good looking guy who seemed to be high functioning but i think most of us

01:31:50.780 think more of like a lunatic like charles manson when we think of somebody capable of committing this

01:31:55.880 kind of a murder right i worked a case unabomber case and ted kaczynski very uh a genius iq at one

01:32:08.160 point uh before he became a hermit in montana he was a professor at uc berkeley and one of when i was

01:32:15.720 working the case and uh running all over montana uh building the uh trying to get evidence building me

01:32:23.060 the affidavit for the search warrant one of the things i learned was that kaczynski checked out

01:32:31.160 um various books at libraries around montana where he lived and many of them were how does the mind

01:32:42.080 work what is mental illness he was very concerned about his own personality his brain his behavior

01:32:52.960 um not so much that he was stopped killing sending bombs through the mail but he was so here's this

01:33:00.680 person uh that one he certainly wasn't as high functioning as the guy we're talking about

01:33:07.120 kober brian koberger yeah koberger might have been having these fantasies and this these rageful feelings

01:33:16.320 toward females having fantasies of killing them and perhaps he was drawn to the field of forensics

01:33:24.480 forensic psychology his particular thesis what is a criminal thinking at the moment they're committing

01:33:33.220 a crime i find that very telling why he wants to know because he was having thoughts because he was

01:33:43.680 possibly probably obsessing like i said he didn't wake up one day and say i think i'll go do this

01:33:50.220 horrible thing i've been thinking about it for a long time um and i can imagine if he was thinking about

01:33:58.780 killing he might say to himself i wonder what it would i know what my fantasies are i wonder what it

01:34:05.980 would really be like to do it and for me that thesis is i don't even know how you would find out

01:34:14.620 that because i've interviewed a lot of people that committed murder and very few of them have ever

01:34:21.880 been able to explain what they were feeling and why they did what they did in fact most of them

01:34:28.740 say i don't remember a few people i've interviewed had said yes i was in a jealous rage i remember

01:34:35.180 every second of it and some one person even said to me and i do it again he was serving life in prison

01:34:42.300 but that's how emotional the thing was for him and kohlberger wanted to know what that was like

01:34:51.460 in and so it's his doctoral thesis and then he goes out and does it over and over and over that's what's so

01:34:59.400 chilling about it it's like me not not that you would excuse any murders but just that to have

01:35:05.180 killed four innocents one after the other in the course of a short 25 minute span according to

01:35:12.360 what we read in the affidavit it's like it's just hard to get your arms around and one of the things

01:35:17.500 that i was wondering it just seems incongruous forgive me for being a simpleton but how does that

01:35:24.040 same man if he did what the what the fbi and the cops say stand up in court seeing his crying family

01:35:31.220 he's got two older sisters a mom and a dad who seem to be lovely people by all accounts and mouth

01:35:36.860 i love you in the extradition hearing how does he love them is it capable is is it possible for a man

01:35:44.900 to both love his family love any human being and commit this kind of crime yes uh in fact um

01:35:53.300 you mentioned ted bundy um ted bundy lived with a woman that he very much loved um well while he was

01:36:04.280 killing and he actually turned him into the police based on a composite sketch and the police said

01:36:10.120 no this is what the police said there were two women taken um abducted from lake samamish

01:36:17.960 on a on a warm summer day in the seattle area and uh in the process of investigating these missing

01:36:25.520 women they hadn't found their bodies yet in investigating what happened to these women they

01:36:31.060 talked to a lot of people and some of them said yeah this guy came up to me and said can you help me

01:36:36.920 get my boat off my car and well what did he look like uh and so they were able to develop a composite

01:36:43.740 sketch of the person they were looking for it was in the newspapers the woman ted bundy was living with

01:36:51.020 saw it and oh my oh oh and people said ted uh he they heard him tell women he was trying to get to his

01:37:01.920 car hi i'm ted can you help me with blah blah blah she is living with ted she looks at this composite

01:37:10.040 sketch oh and he wasn't there he wasn't with her on that sunday and when he came home from wherever he

01:37:16.920 told her he was he was exhausted she'd never seen him like that and he just lay down on the floor and

01:37:22.920 so i'm so tired of him he killed two women um and she went to the police and said what i basically just

01:37:32.700 told you my boyfriend my boyfriend blah blah the reason they didn't believe her megan is

01:37:38.140 nobody who's living with a woman and this woman had a child a daughter

01:37:45.020 in a warm loving sharing caring romantic relationship would kidnap and kill other women

01:37:56.060 and that circles back to your point how can he stand up in court and mal i love you to his family is he

01:38:06.940 capable of love yes um some psychologists call it compartmentalization they can put their uh evil or

01:38:16.100 or dastardly or gruesome um fantasies in a in a particular place and then everything else is normal

01:38:26.060 so you can be a psychopath someone who enjoys murder and still be capable of actual love for

01:38:32.540 other human beings it does sound strange but yes it is possible um gosh it's chilling the mark of a

01:38:40.760 psychopath is not that they can't love it is uh the two most important things about them is that

01:38:48.520 they feel no remorse for hurting someone someone that they and they uh feel no guilt they feel no guilt

01:38:58.320 no remorse um lack of empathy and but they can have relationships that are um warm happy you know

01:39:10.240 they're not brutal uh uh dennis raider also known as btk fine torture kill married two kids um they were

01:39:18.840 absolutely uh stunned when they found out that he their dad her husband was going into women's homes and

01:39:29.620 raping and killing them for years i've interviewed his daughter i've interviewed his daughter and his

01:39:35.560 daughter's actually speaking out the btk killer's daughter now and she's labeling this as obviously

01:39:41.600 speculative but she's wondering whether there was any connection actual connection or just inspiration

01:39:48.260 between brian kohlberger and her dad btk killer dennis raider um because the woman who's apparently

01:39:55.820 studied the btk killer more than anybody and wrote a whole book about him was the professor i think

01:40:02.120 undergrad of brian kohlberger and getting his criminology i think masters and the daughter

01:40:09.600 of the btk killer who again is like oh my god my my father's a serial killer like she did not know but

01:40:14.400 she's admitted it and she's given interviews about it sees similarities between the two and definitely

01:40:21.160 thinks her father who's still alive and in jail would 100 be happy to mentor another killer into you know

01:40:30.820 how he did it and so i mean like it's speculative but it's kind of chilling when you see there actually

01:40:35.180 is a little bit of a connection there yes um you're talking about dr katherine ramsland

01:40:43.000 um uh famed forensic psychologist uh that was his professor regarding um there there is a difference

01:40:53.360 between dennis raider and uh how what he did to his victims and what kohlberger did there is no evidence

01:41:04.840 important of sexual assault that does not mean he was not sexually aroused in some way um while he was

01:41:16.760 committing these crimes committing these crimes may not but people i know so well well there was no

01:41:23.380 rape there was no sexual assault doesn't mean the killer wasn't sexually aroused and enjoying uh the

01:41:30.520 killing dennis raider raped brutalized women uh and before he killed them um we don't

01:41:40.040 have information the information regarding this is saying no that did not happen to any of these victims

01:41:46.760 yeah that's right so and i should say again there uh there was a bartender who said he had to

01:41:53.120 speak with brian kohlberger about his inappropriate comments to waitresses a bartender female and customers

01:42:00.840 at the bar he was just inappropriate he was saying negative things like calling them names if they didn't

01:42:06.320 respond to him he doesn't seem to have ever had much of a love life his downstairs neighbor who said

01:42:11.440 or neighbor who said he was up at all hours said she saw him one time drive a woman home but the woman

01:42:17.660 got right out and left and she she wasn't like coming in with him but didn't seem to you know recall a

01:42:23.640 bunch of love interests in his life um there is this interesting thing i that i again please understand

01:42:31.180 speculative but it's getting some traction because a woman who went to school with brian kohlberger is

01:42:36.340 saying she believes this is his voice and here's what happened someone on uh was it let me see 12

01:42:44.800 20 is it 12 it got posted on i can't my on 12 20 on the 30th okay i wrote over my own um text here

01:42:54.040 on 12 30 so right after the arrest a podcast host called t rev tweeted out a conversation he was having

01:43:05.340 um saying i am the guy who originally had this caller on the phone on my podcast which is called

01:43:10.740 allegedly with t rev t dash rev now everyone is saying this is the killer but i do not know this

01:43:18.540 to be a fact yet so please let everyone know um there is an exchange between the caller who labeled

01:43:26.900 himself dave and t rev that was about the idaho murders and by the way one of the victims the male

01:43:36.780 victim was in sigma chi the fraternity and he and his girlfriend who was also killed had been at a

01:43:42.500 sigma chi party that night so again this could just be completely random and have nothing to do with

01:43:47.620 brian kohlberger but somebody who went to school with him is saying she believes this is his voice

01:43:51.500 others have come forward to say they also believe this is his voice and it it did happen prior to 12 30

01:43:57.580 so it happened prior to his arrest it was just posted um by t rev calling attention to it on t 30 here's

01:44:04.060 they the exchange i live in a college town and i've worked with uh probably at least 10 sigma chi

01:44:14.780 members and you know the one thing that every single one of them i i i feel like has asked me is

01:44:24.500 if you were going to kill somebody how would you get away with it and i just wonder if maybe

01:44:34.340 if maybe this is nothing more than some kid in a fraternity trying to prove himself and that was it

01:44:46.360 so you said some you worked with five or six sigma chi kids and they asked you how if you can kill

01:44:53.920 somebody they can get away with it yeah did i hear that right yeah it's always been these these dudes

01:45:01.220 that were in in the fraternity hmm and and so it makes me wonder if it's a thing that that's in

01:45:08.140 their in their like culture that they ask to see how smart you are and whatever and what kind of

01:45:17.460 answer you come up with and someone took it too far again we do not know if that is the voice of brian

01:45:23.220 kohlberger but if it is what do you make of that candace well uh the first thing that came to mind

01:45:32.740 is perhaps look he's a doctoral student and his thesis is what's going on in the criminal's mind when

01:45:43.700 they're committing the crime if i met someone i find them in a sorority fraternity party and i met

01:45:51.500 someone oh this is so and so oh what are you doing i'm working on my doctorate in forensics

01:45:55.940 psychology oh that's very interesting i mean everybody loves this right um people might have

01:46:02.120 said i've been asked well i bet i have people have said to me i bet you know how to get away with murder

01:46:07.500 um i can see where he might have been at a function and oh my you know oh you're you're you're

01:46:14.540 you're this you're that i bet how do you get away with murder might have been not as serious as

01:46:22.160 the person calling took it seriously it sounds like these these people uh five or six of them were

01:46:32.160 asking me how to get away with murder um maybe one of them took it too far though somebody took it

01:46:40.500 too far that's for sure um but i think he was if that's you is this offering insights if this is

01:46:49.020 him is this offering insights on his own state of mind or is it really do you think a deflection of

01:46:54.280 look into the sigma chi guys like trying to push push blame on somebody else or is he trying to say

01:46:59.260 you know like i'm going over the transcript here um where he puts the motivation nothing more than

01:47:05.340 some kid in a fraternity trying to prove himself trying to prove himself if you you know if you can

01:47:12.340 kill somebody and get away with it like would this be secretly his motivation potentially or really just

01:47:18.800 an attempt to point the finger at somebody else could be both i think he was uh when he when he's uh

01:47:26.200 he was projecting if this is if the guy on the phone is the killer um then could be both

01:47:36.500 deflecting you know planting a seed like hey maybe it's one of these frat guys um and it also could be

01:47:47.080 that he was saying you know he's been wondering how to get away with murder right it's a bit on tell

01:47:55.700 project yeah and i will say back to your theory on the insult incels um again these are people who

01:48:02.460 are i guess voluntarily or involuntarily celibate we did some yes and blame others they divide humanity

01:48:12.600 into categories betas that's an incel somebody he would like to have sex but he can't stacy's

01:48:19.100 stacy is the generic name for attractive women who shun betas chads chad is the name for sexually

01:48:26.860 successful men who attract women despite being seen by the incels as dumb by the betas as dumb

01:48:33.360 and then there are normies normies are the masses in between with average looks and intelligence

01:48:38.700 so like the stacy's and the chads of the world are the enemies and there it is possible that somebody

01:48:47.140 like a brian coleberger if he was an incel saw the the couple that was killed that night as a stacy

01:48:54.400 and a chad and the fraternity members as chads and himself as like the innocent beta being judged

01:49:00.420 negatively by these socially successful beautiful people again speculative but this is the job of

01:49:06.220 somebody like you who's got to try to put together a profile of the killer and what motivates him

01:49:11.820 and to me that's that's i mean it's starting to sort of a picture starting to play out because

01:49:16.700 you're right it's been very weird there's been no girlfriend to come forward not he's 28 years old

01:49:20.980 candace right right certainly um uh you know you know megan i'm we've all met people that

01:49:33.820 are judged to be not attractive that have a fabulous social and sex life because of their personality

01:49:45.400 they're they warm and charming and funny and all that stuff and coleberger if it's he's the guy he's

01:49:54.320 not unattractive but um the reports from people are he he had a difficult uh childhood teased a lot

01:50:07.020 overweight um did not have a close circle of friends and so he emerges into adulthood uh basically now he's

01:50:17.180 28 and they're like i said nobody's come forward not like i could understand a woman had if a woman

01:50:27.360 had been with him she might be embarrassed and afraid to come forward but her friends would know

01:50:32.920 i mean if he if he had a girlfriend other people would know he had a girlfriend and one of the things

01:50:40.800 that struck me when i very when this happened the very first day and we saw photographs of the four

01:50:48.660 victims was the my opinion extreme beauty of the two blunts they were killed first and one of them

01:50:59.820 uh suffered more than the other more stabbings i could just imagine maybe

01:51:07.080 one of them dissed him or didn't diss him but we know he was socially awkward with women maybe he said

01:51:18.720 something to one of them and what are you doing they i saw they worked at a restaurant they worked at a

01:51:24.380 restaurant i think i there have been some reports that it was a vegan restaurant he was a vegan but then

01:51:28.740 my team tells me it was actually a greek restaurant but in any event who knows whether you know that august

01:51:34.180 when he apparently began stalking he met one or both of them in the rest like it could be that's

01:51:39.640 a thing is it's it's not you can't think of it like a rational person you know but you would say i think

01:51:44.780 based on your experience it could be a moment could be a second a very short interaction that turned his

01:51:50.880 focus to one or both of these girls right and um for the vast majority of humans um if if somebody if

01:52:03.520 we get slighted or don't get what we want from someone so what okay move on no big deal don't get

01:52:12.180 upset about it but there are people that cannot get over being in their opinion disrespected or

01:52:21.440 not appreciated or or i said hi to you with why didn't you say hi to me well maybe the person they

01:52:28.660 said hi to was distracted and you know but they take it personally and the crime scene as described

01:52:36.900 i have not seen it the crime scene the first people killed were those two beautiful blonde girls

01:52:43.200 and it was brutal it was like um when i see something like this with every stab i hate you i hate you i hate

01:52:53.160 you wow and i think that's probably what happened do i think he will ever uh the killer uh will admit

01:53:02.060 uh what he did in court or no no what if they what if they take the death penalty off the table and i

01:53:08.740 realize right now the victim's families at least one of them is saying we don't want that we want

01:53:12.260 the death penalty um but yeah you know sometimes they'll cut a deal where they take that off the

01:53:16.820 table it's available in idaho um in exchange for a life sentence without the possibility of parole if

01:53:22.200 you'll just tell us everything we need to know um i can't well i can't see him doing it you know who

01:53:29.520 he might talk to katherine ramsland dr katherine ramsland his professor she's she's written 69 books

01:53:38.640 she's she she has a a blog on psychology today she is the go-to person for forensic psychology

01:53:47.440 yes and she taught him i don't think you know what a lot of what happens a lot of times megan um

01:53:55.240 uh people will go to their deathbed uh and never admit what they did but sometimes in prison they'll

01:54:05.860 talk to other inmates because they're surrounded by like-minded people who might be uh interested and

01:54:12.540 sympathetic and yeah talk to me tell me you know i'm in here for killing my wife i'm in here killing

01:54:17.860 my girlfriend what are you doing i can see him maybe in that circumstance telling someone i would

01:54:25.620 um it would be great if whoever is charged with this pleads guilty and and says what happened

01:54:32.700 but i can't see him doing that not at this point i mean one thing we may we may see is a journal

01:54:42.040 or some sort of you know notes i don't know a manifesto since they've raided his house now they

01:54:48.680 they they raided can't remember what the word was when they arrested him at his parents house but they

01:54:53.820 broke down the door they broke windows they went full bore in there with the element of surprise to

01:54:59.180 get him so maybe he had something there maybe he had some he had left something back at in washington

01:55:04.300 state you know they did get him when he wasn't expecting it so that's one plus in our desire to

01:55:11.100 figure it out um what let me spend a minute on the family because the parents can like the dad

01:55:17.680 just kind of it's kind of sweet that the dad flew out there to drive home with his son i mean you do

01:55:22.880 wonder if your child were at a university that was 10 miles away from where there was this mass murder

01:55:28.940 of four college-age students and you'd be paying attention you i mean a lot of people didn't pay

01:55:33.760 attention to these murders you know you see it in the headlines you're like oh it's terrible but then

01:55:36.920 you kind of move on if your kid were 10 miles away from them you'd definitely be clicking on the

01:55:41.880 articles and by the way a criminology phd student you know like right there you know probably you'd

01:55:48.560 be saying we're going to discuss this over thanksgiving they did put out that that bolo

01:55:53.420 the be on the lookout for the the white hyundai elantra in mid-november and it is remarkable you think

01:56:02.180 like i guess you're maybe your head doesn't go there but this dad is driving home with his kid

01:56:07.700 in a white hyundai elantra from just a few miles away from this murder scene and you know he doesn't

01:56:15.400 think of his son as a murderer but he knows his kid's weird there's zero question he knows his kid's off

01:56:20.460 yep and i think uh it may be simply people explained by people see what they want to see

01:56:33.740 and hear what they want to hear and so he sees a white elantra his son has a white elantra he lives 10

01:56:42.780 but he couldn't have done this it's it's not within the realm of possibilities that this man

01:56:52.260 who was a baby in my arms 28 years ago and i raised he didn't do it it's not it so it's it's um

01:57:03.720 you can't you can't get through it right it's it's by the way that's called dynamic entry they did

01:57:08.100 dynamic well let's spend a minute on the sisters okay because he's got two older sisters one of whom

01:57:13.160 is a psychotherapist one of whom candace starred in a slasher movie she was yes she was an aspiring

01:57:24.200 actress at one point and she starred in a movie uh called two days back you know some b to be

01:57:32.440 charitable b list b grade movie i'm gonna show you two clips here's the trailer so you can get a

01:57:38.520 flavor for what this was about and then i'll she's not in the trailer but then i'll show you a clip

01:57:43.500 of the sister here's the trailer when i was a little girl i got lost in the woods

01:57:50.300 it took them two days to find me since then i've avoided the woods until now

01:57:57.720 oh my goodness okay here's the clip with his his sister one of his older sisters

01:58:27.720 we were going to talk about recycling today but something's come up a chance to make a real

01:58:34.300 difference we've learned that a group of forestry students are planning to go up the mountain and

01:58:39.260 cut trees and protected woodlands what do you want to do stage a protest

01:58:45.240 yeah a protest would be great i can't stage a protest

01:58:51.040 why not because if we do it before they go there's no real proof

01:58:56.180 that was her in the red shirt so just a bit a bit of color on that

01:59:01.440 um okay gory low budget slasher movie where the characters are brutally stabbed slashed and hacked

01:59:09.080 to death with knives and hatchets amanda kohlberger appeared in that red shirt there as laurie in the

01:59:14.240 2011 flick two days back about a group of young students who go hiking in the remote woods and meet

01:59:19.780 their grisly end at the hands of a maniacal killer who had won their trust my goodness candace what do

01:59:27.280 we make of this if anything g do you think um brian watched that oh this is what the sister has to

01:59:36.720 wrestle with now yeah yeah it's what when was this movie a few months ago no no 2011 so it was 10 plus

01:59:47.920 10 years ago so he would have been 18

01:59:52.180 an influential time in a young man's life who knows wow speaking of his birthday his birthday

02:00:04.840 was on november 21st eight days after these murders would you be looking at that if you were profiling

02:00:14.300 this guy in this case no um not no that doesn't i can't i don't know okay because i i heard another

02:00:26.320 profiler saying you know could have been a like a deadline could have been a present to himself could

02:00:35.160 have been like btk by the way i guess started his killings when he was 28 i don't know he was about

02:00:40.260 turned 28 it's just it's a little weird all of it is weird um there is one report i think it's bogus

02:00:50.140 i think it's absolutely bogus i'll say that out front but there's somebody who claimed she had been

02:00:54.400 in the prison with him and that he was doing really inappropriate things and he was making

02:00:59.260 inappropriate sexual remarks and my first thought when i heard it was oh he's going for an insanity

02:01:04.540 defense but you really you can't raise one of those in idaho um the odds of him i i now think

02:01:11.220 having looked a little bit more at this woman how is the woman getting the man's like they normally

02:01:16.180 don't house you in the same place male and female right but anyway i now think she's a she was a wannabe

02:01:20.780 she wants attention and that this is bs but would it be consistent with a man like this to be like

02:01:25.900 suddenly acting crazy acting out in jail would you expect that kind of behavior from a guy with this

02:01:32.460 profile well i'd kind of like to know exactly what he supposedly did um that's inappropriate crazy

02:01:43.840 what that is but here's the thing um

02:01:47.680 his when those handcuffs went on him essentially if he's the guy his life is over life as he knew it

02:02:01.460 is gone and that's a lot of stress that can induce all that kind of stress and and uh the trauma and

02:02:12.700 uh traumatic all kinds of things can come from that so most people arrested for murder or a serious crime

02:02:22.420 like this are automatically put on suicide watch which means 24 7 there is someone watching them

02:02:30.740 either on camera or by their cell at least in a perfect prison world that's what's supposed to

02:02:36.520 happen so we know jeffrey epstein um hmm but so it doesn't surprise me that um if he was doing

02:02:45.580 weird stuff there's no indication he's mentally ill none at all right to the contrary by the way okay

02:02:53.580 so here here this is a report from the daily mail um and again keep in mind some i don't know whether

02:02:59.160 this happened here but some of these tabloids will pay you for a story so this woman oh absolutely

02:03:03.280 huge asterisk i don't believe her i'm gonna say it outright but she um gave an interview to them and

02:03:09.480 said she had been in the jail for the for six hours during the time he had been in the jail she's 50

02:03:15.360 years old she said that she witnessed him allegedly tried to expose himself singing violent rap songs

02:03:21.320 and threatening guards she claimed she heard him say you come in here and i'll cut you i'm going to pee

02:03:27.420 on your face do what you want with me i don't give a shit um and that he yelled that at one guard

02:03:32.720 and that she heard a female guard tell the inmate to put his pants back on but was unable to see his

02:03:37.700 bottom half i don't i'm calling bs on this one candace me too me too yeah it's gotta stick with what

02:03:45.280 the law enforcement is telling us and even that you have to have a grain of salt on because we know

02:03:49.260 that they lie to us for good reasons but they do they do mislead right right uh i don't believe

02:03:56.520 that story at all okay i have i have one parting question for you because we did a long show that

02:04:02.600 has stayed with me on the unabomber and i did not know i've interviewed you many times many cases i did

02:04:11.780 not know that you sat with ted kaczynski the unabomber in the montana cabin after he was arrested

02:04:20.240 and had an extraordinary few moments i don't know how long you were there with him that resulted in

02:04:28.460 something of your of your sons being on the unabomber in one of the most famous pieces of

02:04:35.020 video we have of him so could you just tell that story right excuse me um when i was told um to go

02:04:44.740 to montana by the bosses um um i had just moved to san francisco hadn't unpacked a lot of stuff and

02:04:51.940 the taxis outside um to take me to the airport and i my gosh is 23 below or in in montana right now i

02:05:01.580 ran in and to get my park i couldn't find it so i grabbed my son's park and six weeks after

02:05:10.620 i arrived in montana was the day of the arrest april 3rd and he was lured out of his cabin by a few of

02:05:23.320 my colleagues and then brought down to a different cabin called hunter's cabin um where i was waiting

02:05:30.680 um uh for what would hopefully be an interrogation with um my supervisor uh and so he was

02:05:40.620 handcuffed behind his uh you know behind his back and sat at a this little pine table this cabin

02:05:51.120 um basically hunters use them to sleep and eat but there's no there's a stove there's no electricity

02:05:58.180 there's the only heat would come from a stove uh and he was at this little pine table and um

02:06:06.480 he wanted to see the affidavit for the search warrant was a hundred pages and i stood over him behind him

02:06:16.500 turning the pages one by one and um i remember thinking this guy's 54 and he doesn't need glasses

02:06:23.760 i was kind of jealous about that and so he looked at my boss and he said well they say if you're ever

02:06:30.200 in trouble you shouldn't talk you shouldn't say anything so i'm not going to say anything i want

02:06:38.060 to lawyer so that was that couldn't talk to him once somebody invokes that um constitutional right

02:06:44.680 as you know no more talking no more questioning about the case about any evidence anything related to

02:06:52.620 that and so people were in and out of the cabin my boss uh some other agents that had worked on the

02:06:59.540 case and there was time because they had to have somebody with them all the time there was a time

02:07:04.720 when i was in there and i sat across the table from him i could have reached across and wait i did reach

02:07:12.180 across and touch touch him uh i was wearing my son's parka and um kaczynski was shivering

02:07:21.220 and so i took my parka off and put it over his shoulders that was the only thing i could do of

02:07:28.920 course his hands are he's cuffed behind that and uh we had a chat he he gave me cooking lessons

02:07:36.640 how to cook turnips on an open stove and um i asked him what it was like to live off the land

02:07:45.800 it was a very awkward conversation um had it been a date a blind date i never would have seen him

02:07:53.280 again it was right not not a good conversationalist and then eventually um the uh agents in his cabin

02:08:02.380 were able to identify a chemical that they found in a jar as identical to a chemical found to detonate

02:08:11.480 a bomb that resulted in someone someone's murder and so at that point now we could arrest him

02:08:18.200 and so my bosses came in and said you're you know you're under arrest uh now it was about five hours

02:08:26.340 after we got him out and they put him in shackles and and took him out and that picture that you're

02:08:33.260 referring to uh was taken by a university of montana um art major majoring in photography

02:08:40.180 he was listening on a police radio or something i guess and he was at helena montana jail which is

02:08:47.320 probably has two cells you've seen it in every cowboy movie you've ever seen and that he took that

02:08:52.800 picture and when i got when i got my jacket back a few days later uh megan it had a official

02:08:58.760 unibomber unibomber dirt on the collar goodness stripes to me it's so extraordinary it's just an

02:09:07.680 example of how close you've been and how important you've been to some of the biggest criminal investigations

02:09:15.060 of our time we had terry churchy on who you know you know and it was critical in that whole thing

02:09:20.080 uh it was episode 227 if people want to go back and listen to it i it was actually one of my

02:09:24.660 favorite episodes i just found that whole case fascinating as another guy brilliant he killed

02:09:31.080 people through mail bombs and hurt a lot of people through mail bombs um but we needed somebody like

02:09:36.840 candace to help create the profile of who would do this because that was a mystery for years for years

02:09:43.480 who could be doing this and ultimately you got your man candace thank you so much i hope we can talk

02:09:48.960 again soon absolutely thank you megan you bet and listen everybody you can listen to killer psyche

02:09:55.040 everywhere you get your podcasts and you should with new episodes dropping on tuesdays and killer

02:10:00.080 psyche daily exclusively on amazon music every day unlike so many of the people out there candace is

02:10:07.420 somebody who actually knows what she's talking about she's got the history and service to our

02:10:11.140 country to prove it thanks for joining us today and for all week and have a great weekend we'll talk on monday

02:10:17.000 thanks for listening to the megan kelly show no bs no agenda and no fear

02:10:24.240 you

The Megyn Kelly Show - January 06, 2023

Idaho Murders Latest, and 1⧸6 Intel Failures, with Matt Taibbi, Candice DeLong, Brian Entin, and Jonna Spilbor ｜ Ep. 466

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