The Megyn Kelly Show - Iran Timing, Epstein Guard Questions, and ＂WiFi Jammer＂ Evidence in Nancy Guthrie Case, with Fitzgerald, Geddes, and Hamilton ｜ Ep. 1269

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00:00:30.000 Getting ready for a game means being ready for anything.

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00:00:58.120 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:59.740 Live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:09.820 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:01:11.540 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:13.100 The United States has a growing internal threat that must be dealt with,

00:01:17.520 and his name is Senator Lindsey Graham. 0.95

00:01:19.960 This guy is a homicidal maniac, as I said yesterday, in my opinion, 0.96

00:01:23.940 that President Trump apparently loves and listens to, which is a grave threat to us all. 0.95

00:01:30.580 And while President Trump is all over the map on potential timing to end the war in Iran,

00:01:34.520 or the, quote, little excursion, as he's now calling it,

00:01:37.860 there is reporting that some of his advisors are now pushing to find an off-ramp,

00:01:43.040 understanding that with rising oil prices and gas prices and sentiment in the United States,

00:01:50.640 the majority is against this war.

00:01:52.620 Republicans are for it, but independents are overwhelmingly against it.

00:01:55.960 And, of course, Democrats are too, but independents matter for the midterms.

00:01:59.840 Many think this is not worth it.

00:02:01.640 We got some gains.

00:02:03.260 Now let's get out.

00:02:04.140 The Wall Street Journal reporting some of Mr. Trump's advisors are privately urging him now,

00:02:09.020 please look for an exit plan amid these oil prices and concerns that political backlash is heading Republicans' way. 0.98

00:02:16.220 Now the White House calls the reporting, quote, full of crap from anonymous sources. 0.89

00:02:21.500 Okay, but there's no question that's spiking oil prices. 0.98

00:02:26.080 Yesterday it went to, at one point, I think $120 a barrel.

00:02:29.060 And then Trump, right before the markets closed, said, oh, we may be ending the conflict,

00:02:35.760 setting the price going back down.

00:02:37.420 Now he's being accused of market manipulation.

00:02:39.340 But all of this will be a concern.

00:02:41.220 There's no question consumers are already struggling with inflation and affordability, so-called,

00:02:46.360 has been their number one issue for a long time.

00:02:48.540 And we do not want people's gas prices and oil prices affect all prices to be going up prior to the midterms.

00:02:55.180 There are reports that top Republicans in difficult races in November have been calling the White House saying,

00:03:02.040 please, please find a way out.

00:03:04.160 This is not going to be helpful.

00:03:06.180 But if any part of any of this is true, and again, the White House is denying, 0.91

00:03:10.620 they call this Wall Street Journal report full of crap that some advisors are pushing for an off-ramp.

00:03:14.980 But if any part of it is true, it's not going to matter if Senator Lindsey Graham has his way. 0.97

00:03:18.780 And his cohort over at Fox News, I mean, Sean Hannity is Lindsey Graham by a different name.

00:03:25.080 It's amazing to me to watch them cheerlead this.

00:03:28.280 I mean, we've got seven U.S. personnel dead.

00:03:30.640 We've got a girls' school, 175 young girls dead in Iran.

00:03:36.280 And there's serious dispute.

00:03:37.580 We'll get into who's behind that.

00:03:39.000 But there's only serious dispute because the president is now saying that it wasn't us,

00:03:43.800 but his own defense secretary over his shoulder is saying, hmm, it's under investigation.

00:03:47.960 And senators like Kennedy are saying, yeah, it looks like it was us.

00:03:51.960 And the Wall Street Journal and others are reporting it was us.

00:03:55.600 None of this is good, okay?

00:03:57.120 And you would think at a minimum somebody like Senator Graham would, like, pause and not look so bloodthirsty.

00:04:05.340 How does that make the Trump administration look good when we know that he's working hand-in-hand with the president,

00:04:09.740 that he's been one of his chief advisors, to make him look so cavalier about the death unfolding in the Middle East right now

00:04:16.400 and the likely of more to come?

00:04:19.520 Last night on Hannity's program, he sounded, Lindsey Graham did, like he was our secretary of state or even our president.

00:04:25.220 It was obscene.

00:04:26.960 Who does he think he is?

00:04:29.720 No one elected him as president.

00:04:31.340 No one ever would.

00:04:33.480 As if the American public would elect Lindsey Graham to lead this war. 0.99

00:04:38.320 He thinks he's the commander-in-chief.

00:04:41.360 He's starting to sound truly deluded, like someone needs a psychiatric intervention.

00:04:47.160 Make agreements with other countries.

00:04:49.700 Defend them if they go to war.

00:04:51.900 This is what he's saying.

00:04:53.080 He's threatening our allies.

00:04:54.920 He's saying, I'll allow this.

00:04:56.600 I'll push for that.

00:04:57.740 Now I'll punish you in the following way.

00:04:59.480 Who died and elected him president or secretary of state?

00:05:02.920 And he may be a duly elected senator from South Carolina to represent the interests of South Carolina, but he's not the president.

00:05:09.640 And by the way, he's not even representing the interests of South Carolina.

00:05:12.260 He made clear last night that if you are a so-called isolationist or if you've expressed doubts about the wisdom of this war, he's not on your side.

00:05:22.200 And he said, and I quote, I'm with Israel.

00:05:24.860 I don't care about you.

00:05:26.780 I'm with Israel.

00:05:27.960 You are an American senator representing the interests of South Carolinians who put you in office, sir.

00:05:35.740 Not Israel. 0.99

00:05:37.180 You don't work for them, Lindsey.

00:05:39.680 See, this is getting insane, you guys.

00:05:43.280 Someone needs to reel him in, and he needs to be absolutely nowhere near the president's orbit, as I said yesterday.

00:05:50.220 But Fox News, I tweeted this out, is parading him around on all of its shows like he's a Hefner bunny in stockings and a bushy tail.

00:05:58.840 They know exactly what President Trump wants to see and the messaging he wants to hear, and it is as bellicose and war-hungry as you could possibly imagine.

00:06:07.600 It is an isolationist or non-interventionalist worst nightmare.

00:06:12.700 It is exactly the opposite of what President Trump ran on, exactly the opposite.

00:06:18.360 And yet Fox News is salivating over the prospect of more war, an extended conflict, and Lindsey Graham is its spokesperson.

00:06:29.040 And President Trump seems to be enjoying that because if he weren't, we wouldn't be seeing that anymore.

00:06:33.480 However, these soundbites that we're going to play for you are all from one interview, one interview that Graham did last night with Sean Hannity.

00:06:41.060 And I just have to say up front, Hannity offered zero pushback to any of this, zero to anything you were about to hear.

00:06:47.140 Like, why not do your viewers the service of just saying at least, hey, you know, here's what your critics are saying.

00:06:54.500 Here's what the president's critics are saying.

00:06:56.280 Fox prized itself on having allegedly more independents watching its programming than any other cable news channel.

00:07:01.840 Well, that's not saying much, but why not service them and offer both sides?

00:07:07.540 Like, at least you're not going to have somebody who actually disagrees with Lindsey Graham, but you as the anchor – I used to do this. 0.62

00:07:12.980 I know a thing or two about how to anchor a show that would wind up becoming the number one show on cable for a Fox News audience in a way that's meaningful.

00:07:21.200 Offer pushback if you don't have the other side.

00:07:23.260 You, Sean, have to be the other side.

00:07:25.440 I mean, that's what Roger Ailes praised all the time when I was at Fox.

00:07:30.180 He loved it when you did that because he thought it was a service to the audience.

00:07:33.320 Those days are gone. 0.99

00:07:34.840 Now it's you cheerlead the war, support the military-industrial complex, or you're a loser. 0.86

00:07:40.480 It's just – it's infuriating because we're talking about life and death. 0.62

00:07:44.060 We're talking about American life or death, and this is a dereliction of duty.

00:07:50.840 At one point, he let Senator Lindsey Graham speak uninterrupted for six minutes, six minutes, and this appears to be the president's main way of achieving an information briefing.

00:08:04.300 You know, he said – he was talking about how, you know, he got into this war, he listened to Jared Kushner, he listened to Steve Witkoff, he listened to Lindsey Graham.

00:08:16.220 That's very clear.

00:08:17.560 He's been praising Lindsey Graham's appearances, which is why Fox News puts him on more, and why Lindsey Graham feels totally at ease, sounding like he's got the president's job.

00:08:27.740 We elected President Trump.

00:08:29.020 That's who we want in that office. 1.00

00:08:30.160 We do not want some crazed, childless maniac from South Carolina calling the shots in the Middle East. 1.00

00:08:38.100 First up here, Senator Graham telling Saudi Arabia that the United States is willing to go to war for the Saudis, depending on Lindsey's following conditions. 0.76

00:08:51.980 Listen here.

00:08:52.960 Finally, to my friends in Saudi Arabia, I've been your biggest champion.

00:08:56.380 I think the crown prince has taken Saudi Arabia in a completely different direction in a good way.

00:09:02.420 But here's what I want to say to Saudi Arabia tonight.

00:09:05.280 I'm willing to do a mutual defense agreement with your country to give you protection in perpetuity.

00:09:11.100 Under the agreement I've been pushing, and I hope we can continue to talk about, if you're attacked by Iran, we would go to war for you. 1.00

00:09:18.080 I, I'm willing to give you, who the fuck are you? 0.99

00:09:23.880 What do you mean, I? 1.00

00:09:25.820 Let me tell you, I voted for Donald Trump.

00:09:28.500 I campaigned for Donald Trump.

00:09:30.080 I endorsed Donald Trump.

00:09:31.260 And I voted for him willingly and happily.

00:09:34.180 I did not vote for Senator Lindsey Graham, nor would I ever.

00:09:38.560 And I think a lot of South Carolinians are going to have second thoughts about having put him in the U.S. Senate.

00:09:44.360 I will agree what we never elected you as commander in chief.

00:09:49.320 This is outrageous.

00:09:51.200 Next up, as I said, Senator Graham sent a message to any isolationist in the United States and any in South Carolina that put him in office, who doesn't fully support this war, that he's not with you.

00:10:04.640 He's with Israel, not even with another American. 0.72

00:10:09.060 He's with Israel.

00:10:09.940 No questions asked.

00:10:10.820 Watch.

00:10:11.000 I believe with all my heart and soul, if the regime in Iran still stands when this is over, we've made a mistake.

00:10:18.700 If they had a nuclear weapon, they would use it.

00:10:21.020 They've been lying about what they're doing with their nuclear program. 0.97

00:10:23.860 They want a bomb because they're Nazis. 1.00

00:10:25.960 They're crazy. 1.00

00:10:26.800 They want to kill all the Jews. 1.00

00:10:28.320 And the Jews have been down that road before. 0.99

00:10:30.640 To our friends in Israel, God bless you.

00:10:32.460 I'm with you in every way.

00:10:34.060 To all the anti-Semites, to all the isolationists.

00:10:37.380 I don't believe.

00:10:39.100 Forget it.

00:10:39.740 I'm not with you.

00:10:40.700 I'm with Israel.

00:10:41.440 I will be with Israel to our dying day.

00:10:44.600 Okay.

00:10:45.360 I don't know what an anti-Semite is.

00:10:47.760 But the isolationists?

00:10:50.340 Forget it.

00:10:51.100 I'm not with you.

00:10:52.020 I'm with Israel.

00:10:53.640 Okay.

00:10:54.120 Right now, the majority of the country are feeling isolationist.

00:10:58.720 They don't want this war.

00:11:00.340 They don't want the foreign entanglement. 1.00

00:11:01.600 They don't think that we have to do Israel's bidding in the Middle East.

00:11:04.740 They think that Israel can handle itself, which it can. 0.99

00:11:07.880 That it doesn't need American troops sacrificing their blood and treasure on the fields of Iran.

00:11:14.080 So how dare you?

00:11:17.040 How dare you say I'm not with you?

00:11:18.840 You represent the isolationists and the neocons alike, sir, in the state of South Carolina, in the U.S. Senate.

00:11:24.680 But this is like some sort of a—I mean, he's given Nero vibes, this guy.

00:11:31.180 He has been in the U.S. Senate for 23 years.

00:11:34.060 You have to wonder, serving the wishes of Israel or of America certainly sounds like Israel is his top priority. 0.84

00:11:40.440 Who voted for that? 0.57

00:11:43.260 This is like—you say this.

00:11:45.400 You say that we're doing this war for Israel or that he was pushed into this war by people who are Israel first. 0.80

00:11:51.800 And you get called an anti-Semite.

00:11:52.940 It's fine.

00:11:53.360 As you guys know, I've been called worse.

00:11:55.680 I've been called all the names. 0.99

00:11:57.320 Racist, bigot, homophobe, transphobe, you name it. 0.99

00:12:02.220 I've been called it. 0.98

00:12:03.720 It's funny at this point in my career.

00:12:05.340 By the time I hit my age and my level in journalism, you kind of laugh at it.

00:12:09.940 Because you're like, you're either I'm a demon, I'm an absolutely evil demon, or people just like to call me names when I step on their favorite issue.

00:12:17.800 I'm just going to go ahead and say it's the latter.

00:12:20.600 But this guy, he is Israel first. 0.85

00:12:23.520 He is truly Israel first. 0.92

00:12:26.140 Like, I don't think Senator Graham is Jewish.

00:12:30.840 So you can't even argue that it's an anti-Semitic comment, but it wouldn't be even if he were.

00:12:35.840 He is Israel first. 0.95

00:12:37.380 He says it openly.

00:12:39.940 This has to be stopped.

00:12:42.200 They have co-opted our foreign policy through our own U.S. senator, who for some bizarre reason now has the ear of the president like he's, you know, Tom, what's his name?

00:12:55.680 Tom in The Godfather.

00:12:57.800 Is it Higgins?

00:12:58.460 No, it's not Higgins.

00:12:59.160 I can't remember his last name.

00:13:01.160 You know.

00:13:04.600 Robert Duvall.

00:13:05.900 Tom Hagen.

00:13:06.700 Tom Hagen.

00:13:07.320 Thank you.

00:13:08.780 It's crazy.

00:13:09.940 Someone has to step in.

00:13:12.620 Someone who loves the president.

00:13:14.320 J.D., Marco, Ivanka, someone who he respects.

00:13:21.840 As I told you yesterday, there was a report in the journal that Mark Thiessen and Jack Keene, General Jack Keene, two friends of mine at Fox News.

00:13:30.520 I mean, I think Mark Thiessen would tell you the reason he's a Fox News contributor and you know his name is because of yours truly.

00:13:35.860 I, too, used to be very neo-Conny while on Fox.

00:13:38.920 It's one of the reasons I'm so anti-war right now.

00:13:42.060 I participated in this.

00:13:43.620 I helped cheerlead it.

00:13:45.060 I blindly supported the administration and its lies about the war when George W. Bush was president.

00:13:50.560 And I didn't know they were lies at the time.

00:13:52.680 I just unquestioningly, unquestioningly followed them, swallowed them, and then delivered them to an audience which kept approval numbers at a decent rate, at least within the Republican Party, so I know how the game works.

00:14:04.680 And the game is dishonest, and I refuse, refuse to be a part of that again.

00:14:09.120 No.

00:14:10.320 We'll report – I am rooting for victory, unlike these weirdos who are, like, cheering on the Iranians right now. 1.00

00:14:16.460 I want the United States to win this now that we're in it.

00:14:19.480 I want a solid defeat if it can be achieved.

00:14:23.180 But I'm also going to be honest, and it's not going universally well over there.

00:14:26.760 We're getting propaganda from the administration, and then we're getting just the naysayers who report nothing but bad news for the United States,

00:14:34.080 which isn't true either.

00:14:35.100 I mean, it's quite a feat to have sunk their entire navy, which we appear to have done.

00:14:40.260 It's – you know, don't underestimate the power of the U.S. military, but the bloodlust by the administration's spokespeople and this guy chief among them is very disconcerting.

00:14:50.100 It's very off-putting.

00:14:52.300 He then, okay, went on to issue a warning to Spain.

00:14:59.440 Okay, what are we now doing to Spain?

00:15:01.920 Not to mention the entire Arab world. 0.99

00:15:04.700 To our friends in Spain, man, you have lost your way. 0.59

00:15:07.280 I don't want to do business with you anymore.

00:15:09.500 I want our Arab bases out of Spain into a country that will let us use them. 1.00

00:15:14.980 To our Arab friends, I've tried to help you construct a new Mideast.

00:15:18.920 You need to up your game here.

00:15:20.360 I can't go to South Carolina and say we're fighting and you won't publicly fight.

00:15:24.560 What you're doing behind the scenes, that has to stop.

00:15:27.540 The double-dealing of the Arab world when it comes to this stuff needs to end. 1.00

00:15:30.740 I, no one elected you as our commander-in-chief. 1.00

00:15:37.280 Shut the fuck up. 1.00

00:15:39.140 Get off the national scene. 1.00

00:15:40.360 You've disgraced yourself and endangered our troops long enough.

00:15:42.820 The business about the Arab world is a point that should be discussed because it did emerge that it was not only Israel reportedly urging President Trump to get into this war.

00:15:59.200 Not reportedly.

00:16:00.220 Israel urged President Trump to get into this war.

00:16:03.260 Period.

00:16:04.220 Lindsey Graham was flying over to Israel and briefing a foreign country's leader on how to manipulate the sitting U.S. president.

00:16:12.500 That's been confirmed.

00:16:15.700 Okay, that's the Wall Street Journal reporting.

00:16:18.700 The Wall Street Journal that's been very supportive of this war, that's very neo-Cony, whose owners are the Murdochs, with whom the president remains close.

00:16:26.360 It's on again, off again.

00:16:27.140 Just yesterday, there were pictures of Jared and Ivanka at Rupert Murdoch's 95th birthday party all over the Internet.

00:16:32.880 That's the paper reporting that Lindsey Graham, who's proud of it, it was an interview with Lindsey Graham.

00:16:38.140 It wasn't like anonymous sources say.

00:16:40.020 Lindsey Graham gave the Wall Street Journal an interview and reported firsthand that he's been flying over to Israel to deal with a foreign country's leader on how to manipulate the sitting president into war. 0.99

00:16:49.880 Everyone telling those of us who said Israel got us into this that we're anti-Semites, you are fucking wrong. 0.97

00:16:57.160 Read the paper. 0.97

00:16:58.620 Listen to the guy who is the chief advisor now to the sitting president.

00:17:02.880 You may not like it, but it's true.

00:17:06.180 It's crazy that this has been allowed.

00:17:09.780 We did go through the confirmation process for an actual secretary of state to advise the president, for an actual director of national intelligence to advise the president, for an actual vice president to advise the president.

00:17:23.480 Those are the people that we also confirmed and elected in some cases, in J.D.'s case.

00:17:28.580 Not Lindsey Graham as any foreign policy advisor, as any commander-in-chief, as any secretary of state.

00:17:36.340 And where are those people, by the way?

00:17:38.140 I saw Tulsi and dressed in full uniform at the dignified transfer as the remains of our first fallen return to Dover.

00:17:44.720 Good for her.

00:17:45.820 She looked dignified.

00:17:46.600 I guarantee you she's against this.

00:17:48.020 She's been the most outspoken of the administration on war with Iran.

00:17:51.620 I don't expect her at all to be speaking out against the president.

00:17:55.500 I actually don't think she should.

00:17:56.720 Same for J.D.

00:17:57.620 That's a behind-closed-doors kind of conversation.

00:18:00.560 And I do wonder.

00:18:01.540 I don't know what the answer is.

00:18:02.760 You know, the president had a comment about J.D. yesterday saying he wasn't too enthusiastic, and then he was enthusiastic.

00:18:09.780 But he's been enthusiastic, but he wasn't enthusiastic.

00:18:11.640 You know how President Trump is.

00:18:13.520 So there's no question J.D. didn't favor this.

00:18:15.680 But who would expect them to publicly criticize the president?

00:18:19.920 I said the same about Kamala Harris, by the way, when Joe Biden opened the border.

00:18:24.500 It's not about what they say publicly.

00:18:26.560 Publicly, they're expected to back their boss.

00:18:28.160 But behind the scenes, they're expected to do something and represent the interests that got them the job.

00:18:35.140 Anyway, back to Hannity and Graham.

00:18:36.680 That interview ended with Graham saying, we should move all of our, quote, stuff, apparently our military assets, to Israel.

00:18:46.600 We should move all of our stuff to Israel instead of to other countries that aren't as cooperative.

00:18:53.380 Spain, Macron, and Great Britain, they either wake up, this is their tipping point moment, too.

00:19:02.320 Just like the Middle East. 0.97

00:19:03.360 Saudi Arabia, you decide now.

00:19:05.460 UAE, decide now.

00:19:07.280 Qatar, Qatar, decide now.

00:19:09.440 Because I'm a little sick and tired of, you know, the constant threading of needles.

00:19:14.240 They wanted the Iranians to stop as much as the Israelis did, truth be told. 0.98

00:19:19.020 God bless Israel.

00:19:19.800 We should move all our stuff to Israel. 0.95

00:19:21.860 Thank you.

00:19:22.400 Senator Graham, thank you.

00:19:24.860 Okay.

00:19:25.540 So we should move all of our stuff to Israel.

00:19:27.440 We should pull all of our, there's a reason we have our military bases across the Middle East and Europe. 0.97

00:19:32.460 And it's that Israel can't really do it.

00:19:35.940 They can't house all of our military bases in a way that would protect the region.

00:19:39.540 And look, but the point, the larger point about how the Saudis pushed us to get into this war and now that it's underway, don't want to actually join it, is a fair point.

00:19:51.780 That's true.

00:19:52.740 But that was something we should have foreseen when they were pushing us.

00:19:57.300 That was up to us to calculate how they behaved in the past and how they're past and how they're likely to behave now.

00:20:03.620 You know, I mean, I can't get over the animal house line. 1.00

00:20:05.740 You fucked up. 1.00

00:20:06.300 You trusted us. 1.00

00:20:07.300 It's probably what they're saying.

00:20:08.980 We, we, we urged you to start a war that we would not help you with.

00:20:13.380 And now it's your problem, not ours.

00:20:15.880 They know the Middle East.

00:20:17.240 They're like, we don't want this quagmire on our hands.

00:20:19.640 Let it be your problem, United States.

00:20:21.080 That's what Israel's thinking too.

00:20:23.300 Do you think Israel cares if our relationship frays with the Saudis and with Qatar and with UAE?

00:20:28.480 They don't care at all.

00:20:29.380 In fact, that's good for them.

00:20:31.120 They want to grow in power in the Middle East. 0.98

00:20:33.380 And if the United States and its allies have a fractured relationship in the Arab world, that's better for Israel. 0.99

00:20:38.400 They don't give a shit. 0.99

00:20:39.220 That's great. 0.99

00:20:39.700 What they want is more power, yes, to feel safe too.

00:20:43.200 I understand that.

00:20:44.400 And they can do that on their own.

00:20:46.000 The United States did not have to intervene to make this our fight.

00:20:49.040 And now the relationships are fraying with our Middle East Arab allies because they're pissed that they're under attack.

00:20:57.260 Not just the United States military bases in their countries, but their countries have taken hits from Iran. 0.92

00:21:03.140 And what happened was Iran on Monday said, okay, we're sorry we did that.

00:21:08.640 Not about the military bases, but we're sorry we hit the actual countries, and we're going to stop doing that.

00:21:13.000 And instead of taking the olive branch, President Trump said, aha, full surrender.

00:21:17.180 You know, too bad. 1.00

00:21:18.680 Suck it. 1.00

00:21:19.180 We're going to have more conflict. 0.98

00:21:20.380 And then by the afternoon, under pressure from their own constituencies within Iran, because they didn't like the apologetic statement to the other Middle East countries, they said, oh, never mind.

00:21:31.040 You know, we are going to continue hitting everybody, everybody who has a U.S. military base.

00:21:35.280 And we got back to, you know, openly targeting of the allies by Iran by the day's end.

00:21:42.420 So we were sort of headed for a de-escalation, and now it's unclear.

00:21:47.340 All of this is, like, just so deeply problematic, you guys.

00:21:49.940 It's just—it's deeply problematic.

00:21:51.360 And, you know, a word on what we're seeing on Fox.

00:21:55.960 In the days following the initial strike, Mike Pompeo has been second only to Lindsey Graham, who is, I mean, again, as Israel first as they come. 0.88

00:22:04.540 He was on a Saturday special edition of America's Newsroom.

00:22:09.360 That's the day of the strikes.

00:22:10.840 Sunday morning, Fox & Friends.

00:22:12.100 Sunday night, Trey Gowdy's show.

00:22:13.280 Monday afternoon, Harris Faulkner.

00:22:14.360 Monday night, Sean Hannity.

00:22:15.240 He wrote an op-ed for FoxNews.com, Mike Pompeo, Operation Epic Fury is righteous and regime change must follow.

00:22:23.700 And we could keep going.

00:22:25.660 But this is why the president thinks that there's public support for this and it's going so well and that he should stay there.

00:22:33.000 It's because all he listens to is Mike Pompeo and Lindsey Graham.

00:22:36.520 J.D. needs to get loud, so does Tulsi, so does anybody else who can see the risks to America, much less the Republican Party.

00:22:43.320 And this thing going on much longer.

00:22:46.640 The president's messaging on how long this is going to last, your guess is as good as mine.

00:22:52.500 I have no idea.

00:22:53.840 Like, listen to what he has said.

00:22:55.360 This is just at yesterday's presser.

00:22:59.160 Okay, this isn't like over the past week.

00:23:00.860 This is at yesterday's presser on the timing of this thing.

00:23:05.000 Sat Nae.

00:23:06.240 We're ahead of our initial timeline by a lot.

00:23:09.380 On Iran, you called it an excursion.

00:23:11.560 You said it would be over soon.

00:23:13.180 Are you thinking this week it will be over?

00:23:15.200 No, but soon.

00:23:15.800 You're talking about days?

00:23:16.420 I think so.

00:23:17.100 Mr. President, you've said the war is, quote, very complete.

00:23:19.840 But your defense secretary says this is just the beginning.

00:23:22.680 So which is it?

00:23:23.680 And how long should Americans be prepared for this war to last four?

00:23:25.060 Well, I think you could say both.

00:23:26.600 The beginning.

00:23:27.560 It's the beginning of building a new country.

00:23:29.560 And we could call it a tremendous success right now as we leave here, I could call it.

00:23:35.080 Or we could go further, and we're going to go further.

00:23:39.700 Like, your guess is as good as mine.

00:23:41.880 Here's Hegseth this morning.

00:23:44.440 On day 10 of Operation Epic Fury, we are winning with an overwhelming and unrelenting focus on

00:23:51.860 our objectives, which are the same as the day I gave my first briefing here on Operation Epic Fury.

00:23:59.060 They're straightforward, and we are executing them with ruthless precision.

00:24:05.840 One, destroy their missile stockpiles, their missile launchers, and their defense industrial base.

00:24:12.840 Missiles and their ability to make them.

00:24:16.240 Two, destroy their navy.

00:24:19.580 And three, permanently deny Iran nuclear weapons forever.

00:24:25.740 It's a laser-focused maximum authority mission.

00:24:28.360 It's a laser.

00:24:29.060 Delivered with overwhelming and unrelenting precision.

00:24:33.460 We will not relent until the enemy is totally and decisively defeated.

00:24:38.460 But we do so.

00:24:40.180 We do so on our timeline and at our choosing.

00:24:44.800 Okay.

00:24:45.540 So he says we will not relent until the enemy is totally and decisively defeated.

00:24:51.020 And then you have Trump all over the place.

00:24:54.180 I'm like, it's short.

00:24:56.020 It's almost done.

00:24:57.260 It's not almost done.

00:24:58.160 But it's going to end soon.

00:25:01.580 And then there was this in the downplaying of what it is to begin with.

00:25:07.840 By the way, just before we play SOT 8, I want to tell you that out of the Pete Hegseth presser this morning, the first guest on Fox News was Mike Pompeo.

00:25:15.840 Here's Trump in SOT 8 yesterday.

00:25:19.100 So with your help and hard work, we're making America great again.

00:25:24.440 And we're doing it much faster than we're doing it much faster than we thought.

00:25:27.080 And it's better, stronger.

00:25:29.580 And our country is doing really well.

00:25:32.480 I mean, at a level that nobody thought.

00:25:34.540 We took a little excursion because we felt we had to do that to get rid of some evil.

00:25:38.700 And I think you'll see it's going to be a short-term excursion.

00:25:43.120 How good is our military, right?

00:25:47.160 Amazing.

00:25:49.760 How good?

00:25:51.620 Short-term.

00:25:54.620 Short-term.

00:25:55.400 A little excursion.

00:26:00.580 I mean, you know, there's already been a fair amount of pushback on that term because we have seven dead American service personnel, not to mention the number who have died in Iran and Israel and the surrounding countries.

00:26:12.760 A little excursion.

00:26:13.740 And he said it over and over so it was not accidental.

00:26:17.700 Meanwhile, the president says war all the time.

00:26:20.140 Like some of his advisors are like, it's not a war.

00:26:22.380 And then Trump gets out there and he's like, Sean Davis of the Federalist was making a joke about this on X.

00:26:27.340 Like the reason that messaging is not sticking is because every time Trump gets before the cameras, he's like, we're winning the war because it's not a war.

00:26:34.900 And the Iranians don't understand war. 0.99

00:26:36.760 And they're very bad at war.

00:26:37.760 But we're good at war. 0.96

00:26:38.760 But it's not a war.

00:26:39.720 It's a little excursion.

00:26:42.420 Okay.

00:26:43.000 So that's not working.

00:26:45.540 It's obviously a war.

00:26:46.880 We're blowing them to smithereens.

00:26:48.720 We've sunk their entire Navy.

00:26:50.660 It's obviously a war.

00:26:53.620 If somebody did this to us, do you think we'd be calling it a little excursion?

00:26:58.180 I think we'd recognize that it was war.

00:27:00.020 I don't like that.

00:27:01.060 The word games are pointless.

00:27:04.100 We have eyes.

00:27:05.380 We know what it is.

00:27:06.080 Let's just admit it and let's get it over with.

00:27:08.240 And I hope the president's telling the truth when he says it's short term, short term.

00:27:13.160 Great.

00:27:13.860 Somebody asked him, do you mean days?

00:27:15.620 And he said no.

00:27:17.100 So we know it's longer than days.

00:27:18.380 The last time Pete Hexeth put a number on it, he said maybe eight weeks.

00:27:22.660 I understand why he doesn't want to pin us down.

00:27:24.520 We don't know what's going to happen.

00:27:25.820 But short term needs to mean short term.

00:27:29.040 We've already done immense damage.

00:27:30.620 And yes, how about our military?

00:27:31.740 Yes, they're incredible.

00:27:32.980 They're stunning.

00:27:34.360 They're the best and bravest in the entire world.

00:27:36.500 That's always been the case.

00:27:38.440 We're incredibly proud of them and their capacity and their courage.

00:27:41.300 You know, what they're doing is courageous.

00:27:44.400 But that doesn't make it smart.

00:27:47.720 And it doesn't make it necessary, as Stu Bergeer was pointing out yesterday.

00:27:51.300 There's justified, the question of whether it's justified, and there's the question of whether

00:27:54.560 it's necessary.

00:27:56.180 And I thought that was a very helpful distinction.

00:27:58.940 You know, there's no question Iran has attacked us many, many times. 1.00

00:28:01.080 They killed a lot of U.S. troops in Iraq, almost 700.

00:28:04.660 Over the years, the Houthis have been attacking our people in the waterways.

00:28:10.320 Obviously, they've been killing people, Israelis and Americans, via Hezbollah. 1.00

00:28:17.300 And if you go back, you know, 50 years, we get a lot more examples of Iran's bad behavior 1.00

00:28:21.280 over the past five decades.

00:28:22.780 So there's no one's arguing they're good.

00:28:24.780 It's a murderous regime.

00:28:26.380 Yes, it is.

00:28:28.140 Unfortunately, the new guy they just elected as the Ayatollah, who's the Ayatollah's son,

00:28:31.440 seems worse than the old guy.

00:28:32.520 They say he's more of a radical.

00:28:33.580 He's more hardline.

00:28:34.820 He's more pro-nuke.

00:28:36.240 So, you know, be careful what you wish for.

00:28:39.820 But the question is quagmire.

00:28:41.920 The question is lasting consequences.

00:28:44.040 The question is, was this our war to begin with?

00:28:46.860 I understand why Israel wanted to go into Iran.

00:28:49.120 Israel's got a great military, probably second only into ours.

00:28:51.800 Good luck.

00:28:53.540 Godspeed.

00:28:54.640 You're the guys with all the great intelligence.

00:28:56.820 Go for it.

00:28:57.440 This is your neighborhood, not ours. 0.93

00:28:59.460 Not ours.

00:29:00.920 We're worried about our hemisphere.

00:29:03.960 That's why we're talking about Greenland.

00:29:05.900 That's why we went into Venezuela.

00:29:08.000 Right?

00:29:08.260 That's why now we're threatening Mexico on the drug cartels.

00:29:10.460 That's why we threaten Canada on the fentanyl coming across the border.

00:29:13.120 That's our hemisphere.

00:29:14.820 We are not policemen of the world.

00:29:16.360 We do not have to police the Middle East.

00:29:18.680 Oh, my God.

00:29:20.460 That's never gone well for anyone.

00:29:24.420 I want to keep going.

00:29:25.440 There was an extraordinary Wall Street Journal article that dropped late in the day yesterday 0.99

00:29:28.700 about the one that Caroline Levitt called crap. 0.95

00:29:33.540 It's got three reporters on it, and the headline is, Trump's advisors urge him to find Iran 0.93

00:29:38.260 exit ramp, as I mentioned.

00:29:40.820 Now, the president, they point out, said we're way ahead of schedule, that he thinks it'll

00:29:45.640 be very soon.

00:29:46.620 You heard him say short timeline there in terms of when we're getting out.

00:29:50.840 Sounded ready for a quick conclusion, writes the Wall Street Journal in their discussion

00:29:54.200 with him, and yet, you know, you hear Pete Hegseth not willing to give a timeline saying

00:29:59.720 we won't relent until the enemy is totally and decisively defeated, and today was talking

00:30:03.920 about how this is going to be the most insane day yet in terms of our firepower.

00:30:10.820 Here's that in SOT 6.

00:30:12.860 For example, today will be, yet again, our most intense day of strikes inside Iran.

00:30:20.140 The most fighters, the most bombers, the most strikes, intelligence more refined and better

00:30:27.380 than ever.

00:30:29.000 So that's on one hand.

00:30:29.940 On the other hand, the last 24 hours have seen Iran fire the lowest number of missiles

00:30:35.640 they've been capable of firing yet.

00:30:40.060 Just the bifurcation, just the trend lines that we talked about on our first briefing.

00:30:45.780 You see, this is not 2003.

00:30:47.420 This is not endless nation building under those types of quagmires we saw under Bush or Obama.

00:30:56.460 It's not even close.

00:30:58.160 We're winning decisively with brutal efficiency, total air dominance, and an unbreakable will

00:31:04.120 to accomplish the president's objectives on our timeline.

00:31:09.220 Okay, so you can see there's a bit of a difference there, you know, in what he says and the president

00:31:14.380 with the short timeline, and we're way ahead of schedule, and it's going to be over very

00:31:17.740 soon.

00:31:18.460 And then the president himself contradicting himself, it would seem, talking about how

00:31:23.540 we're going to go further, we could go further, and that he would back the killing of the

00:31:29.740 younger Khomeini, the new guy, if he proves unwilling to cede to U.S. demands. 0.78

00:31:34.820 I mean, are we just going to keep killing the Iranian leaders who don't cede to all of our 1.00

00:31:37.980 demands?

00:31:38.260 Trump has said he wants unconditional surrender, which is basically one has to generally drop

00:31:43.400 a nuclear bomb on somebody to get unconditional surrender.

00:31:46.640 There are always some conditions to the surrender.

00:31:49.860 We're going to have to go a lot further if we want unconditional surrender, especially

00:31:53.060 by the Iranians.

00:31:53.920 The reports are that Trump has been surprised by how much they've dug in and how unwilling

00:31:58.280 they are to surrender.

00:32:00.500 It's a cultural thing.

00:32:02.960 It's like the Iranians. 1.00

00:32:04.180 You know, it's the IRGC.

00:32:06.800 There are tens of thousands of them.

00:32:08.260 They are very dug in.

00:32:10.220 And there's a question about whether we're really just going to have to declare victory

00:32:13.240 with less than that, or whether we are just going to keep killing people named Khomeini

00:32:18.440 who get elected as the new Ayatollah.

00:32:21.920 There are questions, too, about just how much support we have from the Iranian people for

00:32:27.060 the bombing campaign that we're unleashing right now.

00:32:29.340 Now, 80% of Iranians wanted Khomeini gone, according to polls, but now we're raining oil

00:32:35.520 down upon them and their children.

00:32:37.940 And what we saw when the new Khomeini, the 56-year-old son of the 86-year-old cleric, his

00:32:44.880 name is Mojtaba Khomeini, when he was named the supreme leader, there was a massive gathering

00:32:50.360 in Tehran, and this is what it looked like.

00:32:53.980 We're rolling video of what looks like tens of thousands.

00:32:57.520 I don't know.

00:32:59.720 I'm not good at estimating crowds, but that to me looks like tens of thousands out in

00:33:03.980 the public square cheering him on.

00:33:06.200 And many point out that, you know, Iran has got 92 million people.

00:33:09.440 So that's not, you know, with respect to the overall population, it's really not that

00:33:14.300 many.

00:33:15.300 But I mean, it's a decent amount, considering that we're dropping bombs on them every hour.

00:33:20.900 And so we don't know.

00:33:22.380 And there are a lot of Iranian Americans now who are saying, if this goes on, the longer

00:33:25.280 this goes on, with the more accidental targets, like the girls' school or the desalinization

00:33:31.660 plant, we don't know whether that actually happened or who did it or whether it was intentional.

00:33:35.740 There are reports that it was the Israelis.

00:33:37.200 But the Israelis did hit their oil depots.

00:33:41.440 And that was the thing that even made Lindsey Graham yesterday say, oh, hold on.

00:33:45.620 You know, we're going to need this country to operate once we pull out.

00:33:48.420 Don't go too far, my Israeli friends, masters.

00:33:50.780 Um, whether public sentiment over there is now dropping for this thing.

00:33:56.040 And, and, you know, they're not in love with the United States and Iran to begin with.

00:34:00.400 So, you know, query whether Trump's goal of working together with the Iranians to find

00:34:05.740 the next leader is a realistic one.

00:34:09.160 The oil prices are surging.

00:34:11.520 We talked about that and then fell.

00:34:13.400 Uh, they were over a hundred dollars a barrel yesterday and they, the Wall Street Journal

00:34:18.300 reporting that that's when some of Trump, Trump's advisors were sent off in alarm, fielding

00:34:23.980 calls to about midterm elections from vulnerable lawmakers.

00:34:27.800 His team concluded in recent days, they report that they needed a more aggressive communications

00:34:31.680 plan to sell the public on this war.

00:34:34.120 Um, Trump said Monday that he would remove oil related sanctions on some countries to produce

00:34:39.300 oil prices, but he did not name what nations he's talking about.

00:34:42.600 He said the U.S. would provide risk insurance to tankers operating in the region, adding

00:34:47.280 that the Navy, our Navy and its partners would escort tankers through the Strait of Hormuz

00:34:51.300 if that's needed.

00:34:52.860 Many won't go right now because they can't get insurance since the Iranians are determined 1.00

00:34:56.900 to bomb vessels that go through.

00:35:00.100 Um, that's fraught as well.

00:35:03.220 And one of the reasons white oil is going up.

00:35:05.660 So we'll see what happens there.

00:35:08.040 That's obviously a major, major variable in this conflict, the price of oil.

00:35:14.600 You know, if it goes too high, there's just no way Trump won't pull.

00:35:17.340 He just, there's just no way.

00:35:18.860 He of all people understands the volatility of that and the effect it can have on U.S.

00:35:25.220 consumer prices.

00:35:26.720 You know, months before the midterms when people already say by far that affordability is their

00:35:31.560 number one issue.

00:35:32.140 We talked about this before the Iran war was launched.

00:35:34.080 We talked about this on the show about how so-called affordability or cost of living

00:35:38.400 was by far the number one issue.

00:35:40.420 Nothing was even close.

00:35:41.860 It was like almost 50% said that that was their number one issue.

00:35:44.660 And the next closest was down at like 11%.

00:35:46.820 And foreign policy didn't even rank.

00:35:49.620 It was like a one percenter.

00:35:51.860 And now we're going to jack up prices based on foreign policy.

00:35:55.640 How is that going to play?

00:35:56.800 You ask yourselves.

00:35:58.660 The issue of the bombing of the girls' school is heartbreaking.

00:36:03.120 There is zero chance the United States of America intentionally targeted a school.

00:36:08.980 Zero.

00:36:10.340 We don't do that.

00:36:12.160 That's true.

00:36:14.100 But that doesn't mean we're incapable of mistakes in this war.

00:36:18.580 And on the first day of it, an Iranian girl school that was right near one of its missile 1.00

00:36:23.220 bases was bombed.

00:36:25.900 And 175 people died, the vast majority of whom were young, very young, single-digit age

00:36:31.940 children, girls in particular.

00:36:34.940 We are told that it was bombed by a Tomahawk missile, which is an American missile.

00:36:39.720 It was developed during the Cold War, right before the Gulf War.

00:36:45.120 It was the first time we used them.

00:36:46.220 The first Gulf War in 91.

00:36:47.240 That's an American thing.

00:36:50.140 And we have sold them only to a couple of countries.

00:36:55.080 I think it's Australia and Great Britain, neither of whom were bombing in this Iranian

00:37:02.740 campaign.

00:37:03.600 So that is why so many, the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, taking a close look at

00:37:11.300 it, have concluded this was an American missile.

00:37:14.540 Pete Hegseth said, we're investigating.

00:37:17.380 And President Trump came out yesterday and said, it wasn't us.

00:37:23.260 I'm convinced it was an Iranian missile. 0.65

00:37:24.940 The Iranians don't have Tomahawks, which is why the press has been incredibly and understandably

00:37:30.080 skeptical when he says that.

00:37:31.760 And finally, a reporter, Sean McCreish, actually followed up, asking the president how he can

00:37:38.060 say that.

00:37:39.300 And in exchange, it saw the president immediately shift his messaging.

00:37:42.040 It was pretty extraordinary.

00:37:43.140 Sot 10.

00:37:44.240 There's a footage that shows that an American missile strike and a Tomahawk missile likely

00:37:49.900 destroyed that Iranian girl's school.

00:37:52.820 So will the Americans, will the U.S. accept any responsibility for that strike?

00:37:56.160 Well, I haven't seen it.

00:37:57.180 And I will say that the Tomahawk, which is one of the most powerful weapons around, is

00:38:02.380 used by, you know, is sold and used by other countries.

00:38:05.840 You know that.

00:38:07.180 And whether it's Iran, who also has some Tomahawks, I wish they had more. 1.00

00:38:12.440 But whether it's Iran or somebody else, the fact that a Tomahawk, a Tomahawk is very generic.

00:38:17.480 It's sold to other countries.

00:38:19.260 But that's being investigated right now.

00:38:21.660 Hi, Mr. President.

00:38:23.400 You just suggested that Iran somehow got its hands on a Tomahawk and bombed its own elementary

00:38:27.880 school on the first day of the war.

00:38:29.660 But you're the only person in your government saying this.

00:38:31.700 Even your defense secretary wouldn't say that when he was asked, standing over your shoulder

00:38:35.360 on your plane on Saturday.

00:38:37.040 Why are you the only person saying this?

00:38:38.500 Because I just don't know enough about it.

00:38:40.320 I think it's something that I was told is under investigation.

00:38:44.880 But Tomahawks are used by others, as you know.

00:38:49.120 Numerous other nations have Tomahawks.

00:38:51.120 They buy them from us.

00:38:52.760 But I will certainly, whatever the report shows, I'm willing to live with that report.

00:38:58.820 Okay.

00:38:59.420 So that was Sean McCreish of the New York Times pushing him on that.

00:39:02.820 Here's just a fact check.

00:39:04.500 Okay.

00:39:04.840 So we developed these missiles.

00:39:07.300 We have not sold these missiles to Iran, Tomahawks. 1.00

00:39:11.880 Only two U.S. allies are known, this is via the New York Times, to have Tomahawk missiles.

00:39:16.680 And as I mentioned, that's Australia and Britain.

00:39:19.180 Two additional countries have agreed to purchase them, Japan in 2024 and the Netherlands in 2025,

00:39:25.360 neither of whom has a presence in this war.

00:39:28.660 Iran has its own cruise missiles, but those are distinct from Tomahawks.

00:39:33.520 And they can be easily identified in part by their propulsion system.

00:39:37.300 While the Tomahawks motor is fully contained inside of the missiles fuselage.

00:39:40.720 So they're readily distinguishable.

00:39:43.020 Here is Senator Kennedy speaking about the school bombing.

00:39:47.600 Do we have this soundbite?

00:39:49.900 Oh, no.

00:39:50.320 Sorry.

00:39:50.740 Sorry.

00:39:51.160 It's just to be a paper statement.

00:39:53.740 Sorry, a report.

00:39:54.760 But I'll read you what he said.

00:39:55.820 He was asked, a Republican senator from Louisiana, about the bombing and said, quote,

00:39:59.940 oh, it was terrible.

00:40:01.100 We made a mistake.

00:40:03.040 Other countries do that sort of thing intentionally, like Russia.

00:40:05.820 We would never do that intentionally.

00:40:07.380 By the way, I agree with him.

00:40:08.140 As I said, he goes on, I think the department is investigating it now.

00:40:12.380 And I'm sorry, he says.

00:40:14.280 I'm just so sorry it happened.

00:40:15.580 It was a mistake.

00:40:16.400 That's very good messaging.

00:40:17.420 That maintains our dignity and our honesty and our integrity.

00:40:22.420 We're not infallible.

00:40:24.360 War is hell, and it's confusing.

00:40:27.120 And when you build a child's school right next to a missile depot, you, Iran, are risking 1.00

00:40:34.140 the lives of those girls.

00:40:35.480 That's the truth.

00:40:37.020 But our precision strikes are incredibly impressive.

00:40:40.800 I mean, the strike over that military depot was reportedly dead center, like actually

00:40:47.120 quite impressive.

00:40:48.720 And it appears that we made a mistake in thinking the neighboring property was also part of it.

00:40:55.380 So, you know, we'll get, I hope, an honest assessment.

00:40:59.640 I mean, here was Pete Hegseth in a pretty extraordinary moment.

00:41:01.820 He understands that Trump's his boss, and he certainly understands the messaging Trump

00:41:04.620 wanted because Trump said it right next to him on Air Force One.

00:41:07.940 And look at the difference.

00:41:08.720 So you heard it referenced by Sean McCreech of the New York Times there.

00:41:11.460 Like, your own secretary of defense seemed to be giving a different answer than you did.

00:41:16.300 And here's what happened on Air Force One the day before.

00:41:19.460 Did the United States bomb a gross elementary school in southern Iran on the first day of

00:41:24.180 the war kill 100 seconds?

00:41:25.260 No, in my opinion, based on what I've seen, that was done by Iran. 0.76

00:41:30.820 Is that true, Mr. Nixon?

00:41:32.340 It was Iran who did that? 0.99

00:41:33.460 We're certainly investigating.

00:41:35.120 Still investigating?

00:41:35.840 But the only side that targets civilians is Iran.

00:41:41.380 We think it was done by Iran.

00:41:44.520 Because they're very inaccurate, as you know, with their munitions.

00:41:48.400 They have no accuracy whatsoever.

00:41:50.400 It was done by Iran. 0.98

00:41:51.220 Okay, so he walked that back when he was pressed by the New York Times.

00:41:56.340 I just think it was.

00:41:57.700 I just think.

00:41:59.040 But there's no evidence, and they don't have tomahawks.

00:42:02.360 And, you know, you've got senators, you've got the Journal, you've got the Times who are

00:42:06.180 doing in-depth reporting on this and getting leaked to, saying it was whatever.

00:42:10.580 I take no joy in spending any more time on this.

00:42:13.780 This is a terrible outcome, and I'm sure the United States, if we did it, is extremely

00:42:17.820 sorry, and that it was unintentional, unlike the barbarians that we fight against.

00:42:22.600 Okay?

00:42:22.840 So that's just real.

00:42:24.040 But let's get real.

00:42:25.760 Let's stop.

00:42:26.340 Like, I can't with the misinformation.

00:42:28.640 Like, when it comes to war, it's one thing to do puffery on your poll numbers, on even the

00:42:33.240 economic numbers, to put the best spin on them.

00:42:35.360 We need total honesty when it comes to actual war data.

00:42:39.500 You know, the United States has been lying to its people for 100 years on war outcomes.

00:42:44.700 That's why we had the Pentagon Papers released.

00:42:47.120 Let's just be honest, okay?

00:42:49.480 Not to mention the lies about Afghanistan.

00:42:51.500 That broke long after we had started that war and been misinformed about it for many, many

00:42:56.080 years.

00:42:56.780 Our government lies to us when it comes to war, on how well it's going, because they want

00:43:00.880 it to keep going, or they want to justify what they've done already.

00:43:03.400 And it's not the media's job to cheerlead it along, Fox, Hannity.

00:43:07.760 It's our job to be skeptical and make sure we're getting real information so that the

00:43:11.320 American public can make up their minds legitimately about whether it's worth the costs.

00:43:16.780 We cannot just say, I think, because I think it was them.

00:43:20.280 His own defense secretary, secretary of war, is saying, we're investigating.

00:43:24.400 These are Republicans.

00:43:26.120 Kennedy, the Wall Street Journal, that's not a left-wing paper, especially when it comes to

00:43:31.040 war.

00:43:31.240 That's their favorite thing.

00:43:32.160 Saying that it was us.

00:43:34.600 Okay, so whatever.

00:43:35.260 We'll continue pushing Laura Ingram, to her credit from Fox, tweeting out, we need to

00:43:40.220 acknowledge whether this was us or not, and if it was, to apologize immediately, seconded

00:43:44.640 by yours truly.

00:43:46.740 Things clearly have gone wrong in the war, not beyond that girl's school just yesterday.

00:43:53.080 Today, the Israelis killed a Catholic priest in Lebanon.

00:43:58.240 And this, not just any Catholic priest, but this totally beloved priest named Father Pierre

00:44:03.960 El-Rahi, also known as Pierre El-Rahi.

00:44:07.020 He was killed in southern Lebanon when an Israeli artillery tank fired on a house that he was

00:44:14.300 outside of.

00:44:14.940 This is per Catholic officials and the media, reports that have since been confirmed by

00:44:20.700 the news outlets there.

00:44:22.160 He had earlier refused, along with other priests, to obey an order by the Israeli military to

00:44:26.640 evacuate the Christian village of Olaya. 0.97

00:44:31.180 He had refused to evacuate because his Catholic residents were not leaving, some 8,000 of them.

00:44:47.080 They did not want to leave.

00:44:48.520 They didn't know where to go.

00:44:50.220 And it's been difficult for the hundreds of thousands who are displaced out of Lebanon,

00:44:54.420 thanks to Israel fighting now with them, to find a safe place to go, in particular in Beirut.

00:45:01.420 They can't find shelter.

00:45:02.640 So they don't want to leave their homes.

00:45:04.520 They don't want Israel coming in with its tank saying, get out.

00:45:07.980 They don't know where to go.

00:45:08.900 They have children, just like you and I do.

00:45:11.300 And so he decided to stay with his flock. 0.59

00:45:14.440 And the Israelis killed him.

00:45:16.780 Lebanese news reports stated that an Israeli Merkava tank hit this house twice.

00:45:22.020 The first strike wounded the owner and his wife.

00:45:25.020 El-Rahi and other neighbors rushed to the scene to help when the tank fired a second time.

00:45:30.300 That's when El-Rahi was wounded from that strike and later died from his injuries.

00:45:34.300 Several other Lebanese civilians were also injured in the attack.

00:45:40.620 El-Rahi told France 25 television on the steps of his church a day before his death.

00:45:47.580 This is a March 8th interview.

00:45:49.300 He's killed on March 9th.

00:45:50.540 The following, we voiced it over in English after reading the translation in the French press.

00:45:58.600 Listen here. 0.53

00:45:59.080 So now you have the Israelis killing Catholic priests and attacking Catholic towns.

00:46:28.660 They say there were legitimate Hezbollah-related targets there.

00:46:33.920 Is there any discrimination?

00:46:36.500 Do we get to say, okay, maybe you don't get to get every single member of Hezbollah if they are right next to Catholic priests and 8,000 Christians?

00:46:44.120 Like, it's not a great PR move at a bare minimum.

00:46:50.460 And it's going to continue.

00:46:52.880 It's going to continue.

00:46:54.380 That report in the Wall Street Journal from late yesterday said that we might want to get out,

00:47:02.260 but that it was going to be up to the Israelis to decide whether it was time.

00:47:09.080 It said that basically that the Israelis have a veto right on whether we actually are going to get out or not.

00:47:16.420 Here's how it reads.

00:47:17.160 Some Trump administration officials said as long as Tehran continued to attack regional countries

00:47:23.280 and Israel still wanted to strike Iranian targets,

00:47:28.940 it was unlikely the U.S. could easily withdraw from the war.

00:47:32.660 So our ability to withdraw will depend on whether Israel still wants to strike Iranian targets.

00:47:41.780 We're the senior partner.

00:47:43.900 Why doesn't our willingness to withdraw depend on entirely what is good for the American people?

00:47:49.500 Could it be perhaps because Lindsey Graham is Israel first, 0.97

00:47:52.780 as are all the people advising President Trump,

00:47:56.440 that now they have the same veto right that was offered to them in getting into this war?

00:48:00.360 They were going to go do it, according to Marco Rubio,

00:48:02.920 and therefore we had no choice but to do it.

00:48:06.180 How about we just get out?

00:48:09.300 And if Israel wants to continue this, 0.90

00:48:11.580 I think the Iranians would take the American departure willingly and gladly.

00:48:16.100 All right, there's a lot of other news to get to.

00:48:17.880 We have not even touched the Epstein revelations,

00:48:21.080 and I'm going to do that next.

00:48:22.220 Don't go away.

00:48:23.500 Think about this.

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00:49:14.280 Martha listens to her favorite band all the time.

00:49:18.960 In the car, gym, even sleeping.

00:49:24.080 So when they finally went on tour,

00:49:26.040 Martha bundled her flight and hotel on Expedia to see them live.

00:49:29.220 She saved so much, she got her seat close enough to actually see and hear them.

00:49:34.140 Sort of.

00:49:35.400 You were made to scream from the front row.

00:49:37.660 We were made to quietly save you more.

00:49:40.100 Expedia. Made to travel.

00:49:41.660 Savings vary and subject to availability.

00:49:50.180 Getting ready for a game means being ready for anything.

00:49:53.280 Like packing a spare stick.

00:49:55.060 I like to be prepared.

00:49:56.660 That's why I remember 988, Canada's Suicide Crisis Helpline.

00:50:00.540 It's good to know, just in case.

00:50:02.720 Anyone can call or text for free confidential support from a trained responder.

00:50:06.960 Anytime.

00:50:08.180 988 Suicide Crisis Helpline is funded by the government of Canada.

00:50:11.660 Okay, so now we've got to talk about the bombshell that dropped on the Jeffrey Epstein investigation this week,

00:50:22.140 which is, I know that word gets overused, but this is truly a bombshell.

00:50:25.360 Now, the prison guard, one of the two prison guards that was on duty the night he allegedly killed himself,

00:50:34.600 has been caught lying about what went on that night,

00:50:39.880 and it turns out she was receiving mysterious deposits into her bank account for months prior to his death to the tune of thousands and thousands of dollars.

00:50:54.480 All right, I'm going to get specific on the numbers, but it's a total of, I think, $11,880.

00:50:59.660 Seven cash deposits to the point where the bank flagged the deposits as, quote, suspicious activity to the FBI in November of 2019.

00:51:12.680 Epstein died August 10th, 2019.

00:51:15.120 This is a crazy, crazy story, you guys.

00:51:18.660 All right, so the FBI just released documents pertaining to the investigation,

00:51:25.560 and they show that one of Epstein's, reading here from a New York Post exclusive,

00:51:29.120 one of Epstein's guards Googled, this is the other piece of it, Epstein, minutes before he was found dead

00:51:36.440 and also made a mysterious $5,000 cash deposit 10 days before his alleged suicide per new DOJ documents.

00:51:46.860 All right, so she was getting some almost $12,000, but just 10 days before he died, she made a $5,000 cash deposit.

00:51:55.400 This is a prison guard.

00:51:59.100 They're not rolling in dough.

00:52:00.300 $5,000 is a lot of cash for her to mysteriously deposit 10 days before his death.

00:52:06.660 Her name is Toya Noel.

00:52:08.980 She was one of the two Metropolitan Correctional Center workers accused of falsifying records

00:52:15.300 to say that she and the other guy checked on Epstein throughout the night before his August 10th, 2019 suicide.

00:52:22.620 What'd you say, Steve?

00:52:23.320 Tova, Tova, sorry, Tova Noel.

00:52:29.440 The guards were both fired because they said they checked on him, and they didn't, and he was dead.

00:52:34.740 But the criminal charges against them were later dropped.

00:52:36.920 However, the investigation against them showed a lot,

00:52:39.860 and there's a real question about whether those criminal charges should have been dropped

00:52:43.500 and whether they were the correct charges in any event.

00:52:46.240 It's not about falsifying records exactly.

00:52:48.080 It might be about did you willingly look the other way, allow someone in, or facilitate his death in any way.

00:52:56.160 Okay, the guards, this one guard, Noel, Tova Noel, Googled right before he died,

00:53:07.000 latest on Epstein in jail.

00:53:08.940 That was at 542 a.m.

00:53:10.540 And then again at 552 a.m.

00:53:13.360 So within 10 minutes of one another, she had that search, latest on Epstein in jail.

00:53:18.160 Why does she need to Google that? 1.00

00:53:19.740 Why don't you get your fat ass up, walk down the hallway, and take a damn look? 1.00

00:53:24.940 Was she looking to see whether something had broken, whether somebody else had broken news? 1.00

00:53:31.540 This was less than 40 minutes before her colleague, correctional officer Michael Thomas,

00:53:38.140 found Epstein dead in his cell by hanging at 6.30 a.m.

00:53:42.320 Was she expecting something to happen 40 minutes later or sometime around when she was Googling latest?

00:53:51.720 Why does the guard responsible for keeping an eye on him have to Google what the latest is on him, quote, in jail?

00:53:58.220 This is highly suspicious.

00:54:02.240 This is per an FBI record of her internet search history.

00:54:08.520 This is crazy stuff.

00:54:10.840 Earlier in that shift, this Tova Noel, Tova Noel, who's 37, shopped for furniture online and snoozed on the job 0.68

00:54:18.600 instead of making the mandated checks on Epstein every 30 minutes,

00:54:22.700 while Thomas perused motorcycles, according to prosecutors.

00:54:26.740 The FBI highlighted the internet search in its 66-page forensic examination of the Bureau of Prisons desktop computers of Noel and Thomas.

00:54:36.720 It was the only search highlighted.

00:54:38.160 When questioned during her sworn statement to the DOJ in 2021, Noel denied Googling Epstein.

00:54:45.940 So she lied, which is a federal crime.

00:54:49.140 It is a crime to lie to federal investigators, which she clearly did.

00:54:53.060 And when she denied Googling Epstein, notwithstanding the fact that she had Googled, quote, latest on Epstein in jail at 5.42 a.m.

00:54:59.740 and then again at 5.52 a.m., her answer was, quote, I don't remember doing that.

00:55:03.980 Now, meantime, on the cash deposits, Chase Bank, and pay attention here on the timeline,

00:55:16.300 flagged cash deposits in her bank account in a suspicious activity report to the FBI in November 2019, another file from the DOJ revealed.

00:55:26.060 Again, he died August 10th, 2019, so this would have been a couple months later, Chase Bank flagging cash deposits into her account.

00:55:36.580 It turned out a total of 12 deposits had been made, culminating in the largest one for $5,000 11 days before he died, July 30th, 2019, for $5,000.

00:55:51.620 So $10,000, so $10,000 or $11,000, depending on how you count it, days before Epstein died.

00:55:56.980 But here's the weird thing.

00:55:59.920 And then they show seven cash deposits.

00:56:02.960 A total of 12 were made, culminating in the largest for $5,000.

00:56:07.320 Seven cash, totaling $11,880.

00:56:12.720 So in total, she got almost $12,000, $5,000 of which came 10 days before he died.

00:56:19.620 And here's what's really weird.

00:56:21.620 She didn't start working in the special housing unit, where Epstein was held, until July 7th, 2019, which is weeks before his death.

00:56:30.080 But the deposits began in April 2019.

00:56:37.720 Sorry, April 2018.

00:56:40.860 So she started getting this money in April of 2018.

00:56:43.900 It wasn't until November 2018 that the Miami Herald even dropped its massive report on Epstein.

00:56:53.120 So she starts getting the deposits in April.

00:56:55.860 Then in November, Julie Kay Brown drops the big piece in the Miami Herald that would lead to all the trouble for Epstein.

00:57:01.400 Then Epstein was arrested a few months after that.

00:57:07.660 And then in July, you get a $5,000 deposit into her account.

00:57:17.340 And in August, she's working at the special housing unit, and he dies.

00:57:21.920 And she gets moved to the special housing unit July 7th, 2019. 1.00

00:57:28.340 And July 30th, 2019, she deposits $5,000 cash.

00:57:33.500 Maybe some of the deposits are unrelated.

00:57:36.880 If she was paid off.

00:57:38.020 How could the person giving her money in April of 2018, before the Miami Herald piece, have known that he was going to be arrested by New York prosecutors,

00:57:45.800 well, I mean federal prosecutors in New York, and that he was going to be arrested, and that he's going to be in her housing unit,

00:57:50.180 and that she hadn't even been moved to yet, that seems far-fetched.

00:57:53.080 But it is suspicious that she gets moved to the special housing unit July 7th, and within, what, 21 days, 22 days or so, 23,

00:58:06.460 she gets $5,000 in cash that she deposits.

00:58:10.380 She drove a $62,000 2019 Land Rover Range Rover.

00:58:16.160 That's a lot for a prison guard.

00:58:18.460 How was that paid for?

00:58:19.300 And when the DOJ interviewed her, she was not asked about the cash.

00:58:25.620 Why not?

00:58:27.840 Why not?

00:58:29.940 Might we need to reopen that investigation?

00:58:33.120 Here's another thing I don't understand.

00:58:35.460 Why, knowing all this, was the FBI so quick, you know, when Cash and Dan came out on Fox & Friends to say he killed himself?

00:58:43.020 You know, that's what we believe.

00:58:44.020 We've seen the videotape.

00:58:45.040 Why did they come out and say that, presumably having seen this report?

00:58:51.400 I mean, this is pretty extraordinary.

00:58:54.900 And this is questioning during her sworn statement to the DOJ in 2021 when she denied Googling him.

00:59:01.940 Apparently, we knew that.

00:59:03.040 We knew it wasn't true.

00:59:03.820 So, what led to her, like, why hasn't this been completely ruled out as a nothing burger?

00:59:10.900 I'd love to know more.

00:59:11.980 The New York Post does not explain it and presumably does not know.

00:59:14.280 They write an internal FBI briefing, also released in the DOJ files, reveals the agency thought Noel was also likely the mysterious orange shape spotted in a blurry surveillance video near Epstein's cell around 10.40 p.m. that night.

00:59:27.540 Now, we have video of the mysterious orange shape.

00:59:30.980 Let's watch it.

00:59:33.220 It's orange blob movement.

00:59:36.340 We're Googling in.

00:59:37.440 You can see it for the listening audience on the very right side of the screen.

00:59:40.980 Something, some sort of orange blob is definitely moving around.

00:59:44.240 It appears to be a person right near Epstein's cell.

00:59:47.300 This is, again, around 10.40 p.m. the night before he would kill himself.

00:59:50.640 This is within hours.

00:59:52.100 And there's been a question about who that is.

00:59:53.760 Well, the Post reports at approximately 10.40 p.m., a correctional officer, believed to be Tova Noel, carried linen or intimate clothing up to the L tier.

01:00:04.120 Last time any correctional officer approached the only entrance to the SHU tier.

01:00:09.680 That's the special housing unit, wrote the FBI.

01:00:12.560 Epstein apparently hanged himself with strips of orange cloth.

01:00:15.340 In the sworn statement she gave, Tova Noel, who was working a double shift that day, told investigators she last saw Epstein alive somewhere around 10 p.m.

01:00:24.680 and that she never gave out linen ever or clothing to inmates because that's done the shift before. 1.00

01:00:30.600 The identity of the pixelated orange blob in the video has been a source of debate and conspiracies, writes the Post, since the FBI released the footage last summer.

01:00:39.100 So this is new information that the FBI, per its internal briefing, which the New York Post has seen now, said that they think it was Tova Noel, that it was the woman who had the mysterious cash deposits.

01:00:53.220 We've always wondered how Epstein got the extra linens in his cell, with which he killed himself, if he killed himself, right?

01:01:00.640 If he was murdered, he was murdered.

01:01:01.700 If he killed himself, someone made it very easy for him by providing the extra linen.

01:01:07.020 Or somebody made it very easy for the murderer to cover up the murder by having all this extra linen that made it look like he used it.

01:01:15.660 Tova testified she did not know why Epstein had extra linen in his cell.

01:01:19.300 She doesn't?

01:01:20.560 The other guard on duty was sleeping between 10 p.m. and midnight, she said.

01:01:24.240 A prison employee entering the area of Epstein's cell alone would be a policy violation, workers have said.

01:01:30.280 The inspector general report released in 2023 said it was unidentified correctional officers who had been in that orange blob.

01:01:40.660 So now the information that it was the same woman, Tova, who lied to investigators under oath, that seems clear about her Epstein searches,

01:01:49.020 who was searching Epstein in jail, latest, 20, 40 minutes before he died, and then didn't tell the truth about that,

01:01:58.160 and who had mysterious bank deposits, including right before he died, 10 or 11 days before he died, that she was the one.

01:02:04.180 I mean, this is crazy.

01:02:06.100 This is truly crazy.

01:02:07.340 All the Epstein so-called conspiracy theorists, right, have been like shamed and blamed as nutcases for years now.

01:02:14.760 You tell me, even if you sincerely believe that he killed himself, what's an innocent explanation for all this?

01:02:21.140 Hell if I know.

01:02:23.240 I have more questions than answers and more questions than ever right now about Epstein, and somebody should answer these.

01:02:32.800 Dr. Bodden, Dr. Jeffrey Bodden was brought in, Michael Bodden, was brought in by Mark Epstein, Epstein's brother, to examine the corpse.

01:02:41.960 And, you know, it's also just come out that the official coroner who refused, who said sort of undetermined on Epstein's death,

01:02:51.380 was persuaded in part by Dr. Bodden's strong conclusion that this was a homicide based on the neck bones in Epstein's body.

01:02:59.920 Do we have that, Deb?

01:03:00.980 Because Bodden, I think, talked to Tucker shortly after this on his then Fox News show, and here's what he said.

01:03:07.640 I was present at the autopsy, and there were three fractures in the windpipe that are much more typical of crush injury from homicidal strangulation than from hanging.

01:03:21.580 Hemorrhages in the eyes, again, more typical of homicide.

01:03:27.660 And the ligature imprint on the neck didn't match the ligature that was present in the cell.

01:03:36.440 So I thought that made it more likely that this was a homicide, but we never got to find out how the body was found.

01:03:46.040 Was he found hanging or not, for example, because the two guards were sleeping.

01:03:51.700 The body was just cut down and brought out to a hospital where he was pronounced dead.

01:03:55.740 Now, the Business Insider today reporting that the medical examiner, a doctor, a New York City medical examiner, Kristen Roman,

01:04:06.800 was less sure about homicide initially, but on the death certificate, she did not check the boxes for homicide or suicide,

01:04:16.260 and instead checked the box for pending studies.

01:04:18.700 Five days later, Barbara Sampson, the chief medical examiner of New York City and Roman's boss, ruled that it was a suicide after what she said was a careful review of all investigative information.

01:04:30.580 She did not attend the autopsy and did not elaborate on the findings, so she didn't have additional information.

01:04:35.740 She just declared that it was a suicide.

01:04:37.900 Roman, the one who was the medical examiner, her initially ambiguous classification of his death, combined with Baden's media interviews,

01:04:47.920 helped fuel, writes Business Insider, conspiracy theories that Epstein was murdered.

01:04:53.000 The world did not learn that Roman agreed with her office's findings that it was a suicide until nearly four years later

01:05:01.040 when the DOJ, Inspector General's office, released its report.

01:05:04.920 Even then, the reasoning behind her ruling and the delay was not made clear until now.

01:05:09.480 They are reporting that a transcript of her interview for the DOJ reflected that she was, quote,

01:05:14.900 just being thorough by waiting to formally determine that it was a suicide, and they write the following, quoting her.

01:05:20.680 If he had been a less high-profile person who there weren't people wanting to kill,

01:05:26.200 I would have probably called it a hanging on the day of the autopsy, she said in the interview conducted under oath May 2022.

01:05:33.780 She was certain that Epstein hanged himself.

01:05:36.520 It was pretty clear-cut, she said.

01:05:39.240 The medical examiner was not permitted to see Epstein sell or interview correctional officers,

01:05:44.100 which would be a relevant piece to the conclusion, but she was shown photographs of the room.

01:05:49.620 She said those limitations did not affect her conclusion that he killed himself.

01:05:53.240 She says she felt the injuries were consistent with a hanging.

01:05:58.120 She pointed to the same fractures in his neck that Baden said were inconsistent with a hanging.

01:06:03.300 She said the hyoid bone was fractured on the tip where it would have pressed up against his spine

01:06:09.040 rather than near the joints where one would expect fractures if someone squeezes your neck in homicidal fashion with unsustained pressure.

01:06:16.920 According to Roman, the thyroid cartilage was fractured in the places where the hyoid bone pressed against it,

01:06:21.760 which was also consistent with hanging.

01:06:23.640 She said manual strangulation would have fractured it unevenly.

01:06:28.200 So there's a discrepancy between what Baden concluded and what the medical examiner Roman concluded there,

01:06:36.040 which we've kind of known about.

01:06:38.000 We knew that the chief medical examiner had concluded something different than Baden did.

01:06:43.160 And now we know that Roman, the woman who actually did the exam, had her doubts, as initially expressed,

01:06:49.440 but that she was definitely leaning suicide. 1.00

01:06:52.320 I wonder how she'd react if shown the latest on the guard's testimonial per that FBI investigation.

01:06:59.660 This is a crazy story.

01:07:01.400 Will we ever know?

01:07:03.740 I mean, will we ever?

01:07:04.780 No, no.

01:07:05.640 I just don't think we're going to know.

01:07:07.240 I think if somebody had this guy murdered, then they have every incentive in the world to continue covering it up,

01:07:13.180 and clearly they're very well-placed in terms of power and connections.

01:07:18.360 And if somebody just made it simpler for him to kill himself, getting the additional linens in there,

01:07:23.960 getting the guards to look away, same.

01:07:27.520 To me, it seems the least likely outcome right now is he just killed himself on his own

01:07:32.040 and no one had anything to do with it.

01:07:33.620 This guard testimonial, this guard money, the guard apparent lies under oath.

01:07:41.000 There's no coincidences.

01:07:42.200 I just don't believe in coincidences.

01:07:43.100 That's too many coincidences.

01:07:45.020 This is quite damning info.

01:07:46.740 We'll continue to stay on it, and we will continue to stay on another big case

01:07:50.400 that we've been covering here on the MK Show, and that is the Nancy Guthrie disappearance.

01:07:55.900 We're going to have our team on next to talk about the very latest in that case.

01:08:01.080 Don't go away.

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01:08:48.740 I am drinking my coffee, staving off my dementia.

01:08:56.420 Remember, we talked about that the last time I was on location doing a show.

01:09:00.240 There's a study that says two to three cups a day of coffee or tea has to be caffeinated,

01:09:04.600 though.

01:09:05.260 It's not a guarantee.

01:09:06.240 None of this stuff is a guarantee, but why wouldn't we try?

01:09:08.700 It's delicious, and it's like one of the few things that we enjoy that's not bad for us.

01:09:14.460 So, bottoms up. 0.98

01:09:16.200 Okay, so we haven't talked about the Nancy Guthrie case in a while, and yet our audience,

01:09:20.320 I know, is very, very interested in this.

01:09:22.080 We have officially entered the fifth week now in the search for her.

01:09:25.680 It's hard to believe, isn't it?

01:09:27.260 The FBI and the sheriff's office reportedly are asking neighbors about potential internet

01:09:31.880 outages the night of Nancy's disappearance.

01:09:34.980 That's very interesting, as one neighbor reported that their ring camera closest to Nancy's home

01:09:41.500 was mysteriously not working that night, like that night only.

01:09:47.860 Plus, there's new reporting from Brian Enten of News Nation on a bizarre, bizarre experience

01:09:52.880 that one of Nancy's neighbors had with law enforcement in the early days of the investigation,

01:09:59.540 which would appear to point to some level of disarray, which doesn't come as a

01:10:04.940 shock to anybody who's been following this.

01:10:06.820 But still, when you hear the specifics, you know, I think you will be somewhat slack-jawed.

01:10:12.280 Joining me now to discuss it all, James Fitzgerald, better known as Fitz, former FBI supervisory

01:10:17.840 special agent and a host of the Cold Red podcast.

01:10:21.660 Will Geddes, elite bodyguard, security expert, and founder of the International Corporate Protection.

01:10:27.420 And also, James Hamilton, former FBI supervisory special agent and founder of Hamilton Security

01:10:33.000 Group. Guys, welcome back to you all. Let's start with the Brian Enten report on this neighbor

01:10:40.260 who he tracked down, Brian of both News Nation and he's got his own independent feed on YouTube,

01:10:45.880 which is great and well worth following, talking to one of Nancy's neighbors about something that

01:10:51.360 happened to her with the FBI, question mark, in the early days of the investigation.

01:10:59.420 I think it is, it's 50 or 51.

01:11:04.120 They went to my sister's house on the second Friday night after Nancy went missing at like 7.30 at night.

01:11:12.400 It was raining with hoodies on, black hoodies, and were tapping on her windows and frantically

01:11:18.620 ringing her doorbell. And she answered it. They went in. I think the male did not take his hoodie

01:11:24.580 off. The female did. They wanted to know if she had a pacemaker and they wanted to look into her 1.00

01:11:30.720 garage. And so she was like, okay. I mean, she was alone and was like, sure, of course, you're the FBI.

01:11:37.580 They were in her house for like 20 minutes. She was asking questions and they were kind of vague and

01:11:42.500 the guy didn't really speak. And he kind of creeped her out. My niece called and said,

01:11:47.240 are you sure they were the FBI? So she called the 1-800-FBI number and it was busy. She called 9-1-1

01:11:53.240 and within 15 minutes, 10 minutes, there were seven police cars, four FBI agents, said it wasn't the

01:12:00.960 FBI. She was terrified. They swabbed her, fingerprinted the entire house, were there till the

01:12:08.100 middle of the night. The next day at about three o'clock in the afternoon, she got a call

01:12:12.640 from the large group of FBI agents that were there and said, oh yeah, by the way,

01:12:18.000 that woman was an FBI agent. We don't really know who the guy was, but she was. So you're fine.

01:12:23.440 And she was like, no, I'm not fine. I think the FBI and the sheriff's department were not

01:12:28.300 communicating. So eventually she figured out it was an FBI agent, but the sheriff's department

01:12:34.140 didn't think it was in the beginning. OMG. So just to be clear, that was a neighbor of Nancy's

01:12:42.020 talking about her sister, who is another neighbor of Nancy's and the sister's experience with, again,

01:12:48.380 the FBI, question mark. Unclear fits, but what does it say to you? It says to me, not just left hand,

01:12:57.540 right hand, left foot, right foot with multiple people at the same time,

01:13:02.020 not necessarily knowing what they're doing or with whom they're doing it. This is clearly a

01:13:08.180 violation of investigative protocols that people don't know where each other are. And of course,

01:13:13.120 they're wearing hoodies. I'm assuming they pulled out some kind of identification, FBI

01:13:18.020 identification is pretty distinctive, a small gold badge, and of course, picture and ID next to it.

01:13:24.360 So, and I'm not even sure the exact line of questioning that took place there. But

01:13:30.740 again, they're flying some people in from around the country. Some people just showed up to that day

01:13:37.200 and decided to take on some leads of their own and just said, well, let's go out and knock on some of

01:13:42.200 these doors and talk to these people. We're not going to worry about getting all dressed up. We'll just

01:13:46.180 wear the gear we did when we traveled here. I don't know. I can't explain this. But this sounds like

01:13:50.820 it was someone went out sort of on their own on left field. And then it took, you know, a bunch of

01:13:55.160 talk afterwards and meetings to decide, oh, yeah, it was Jane and this other guy who we don't know to

01:14:01.500 this day. It's weird. It's odd. I'm not sure what it contributes to the investigation. If anything,

01:14:07.140 it detracts from the investigation in terms of how this part of it was handled.

01:14:12.600 The neighbor, this woman's sister, reported that the only identification they were wearing

01:14:19.200 was the woman had on a black hoodie with a tiny FBI emblem on it. Oh, my God.

01:14:24.920 Which you can buy in D.C. on the street corner.

01:14:27.500 That's horrifying. Like, literally, I think my 12-year-old has a sweatshirt just like that.

01:14:32.320 He should not be allowed in anyone's house to ask questions. And scary, Will. I mean,

01:14:36.800 it actually makes me wonder if law enforcement ever shows up at your house. And in this woman's 0.97

01:14:41.880 defense, it happened in the middle of a massive investigation that was all over the television.

01:14:45.960 She knew FBI was everywhere. What should you do to make sure this is a legit person I should talk

01:14:51.820 to? Well, I mean, I kind of agree with Fitz's assessment, but maybe I'm a wee bit more suspicious,

01:14:58.860 Megan. Certainly, I think any evidence of a warrant card asking to see some ID would be absolutely

01:15:05.600 essential in the first instance to verify. But whether you have the wherewithal at that time

01:15:12.180 to actually think of asking for it rather than it just being proffered voluntarily, I think the fact

01:15:18.360 that she called the FBI sort of hotline, albeit it was engaged and she couldn't get through, which

01:15:24.120 isn't very good. Again, it just gives strands of keystone cops of the Sheriff's Department

01:15:30.160 behavior and certainly one hand not speaking to the other. I might be a little bit more cynical and

01:15:37.560 suspicious than fit that if this was an individual claiming to be FBI, maybe they weren't FBI. Maybe

01:15:44.100 the FBI are now using this as a new possible lead, but don't want to be shown out. I don't know. I

01:15:49.300 mean, again, I'll leave it for the bureau guys to maybe make their assessment on that.

01:15:53.400 Yeah, I agree with you, because James, the fact that they sent over as soon as she called this full

01:15:59.460 team and they cheek swabbed her shows they were taking this very seriously. And then just sort of the

01:16:05.300 afterthought, oh, by the way, the next day, that person who came over was FBI. So just don't worry

01:16:09.500 about it. And, you know, as you heard the sister say, no, she, she did think there was a problem

01:16:13.700 here. Like she'd given an interview. Then the whole SWAT team basically came in, took her DNA,

01:16:18.960 cheek swabbed the whole bit, and then just sort of the casual, oh, nevermind. That was a nothing.

01:16:22.580 Like, what does it tell you? Well, you see it a lot. And Fitz was right. Will, of course, is,

01:16:27.720 you know, correct with regards to the right hand, not knowing what the left hand is doing. But,

01:16:31.520 you know, again, and I might be a dinosaur here, but this dress in the hoodie, it's not surprising

01:16:38.540 to me because the bureau, at least the pictures I'm seeing now and what I see on the media,

01:16:43.520 they don't dress like FBI agents when I was there. And, you know, it's certainly a citizen

01:16:48.680 should ask for an ID, call 911, ask to speak to a supervisor, you know, and verify they are who they

01:16:54.620 say they are because a hoodie with a little FBI emblem, like you said, Megan, your daughter's got it.

01:16:59.060 It's not hard to impersonate. And, you know, frankly, you should dress like as a professional.

01:17:03.860 And if you're going to wear a hoodie and look like that, then fully expect to be vetted.

01:17:09.420 Yes. I mean, I'm like, I'm looking at this thinking, what's next? She showed up with a

01:17:13.660 Starbucks cup that said FBI on it. Like, we definitely need better credentials than a sweatshirt.

01:17:19.940 A badge would be one thing, Fitz. Go ahead.

01:17:23.200 I was just going to say, and we've talked about this over the last few weeks,

01:17:27.120 and James has probably been a part of a number of task forces like I have.

01:17:31.900 And you're just sometimes being flown into a location. I mean, I can give you multiple

01:17:37.180 locations in my career. I'm sure James can too. And you just land on the ground and you're not

01:17:42.040 even sure who your supervisor is first. You report to a command post. There's police officers. There's

01:17:46.980 other federal agencies there. You may report to a supervisor. I was a supervisor. People would be

01:17:51.980 reporting to me, but I wouldn't be sending them out on these types of leads

01:17:55.180 without having some sort of direction or coordination with others who have done this.

01:17:59.760 So I'm not saying it's a mess there or out of control, but I have no question, especially in

01:18:07.380 the early few weeks or the first few weeks, people flying in and out and not even under the direction

01:18:12.120 of the Phoenix special agent in charge, but some other supervisor who just flew in. Hey, why don't

01:18:17.180 you guys go out and cover these leads right here? So I want to emphasize that this was seemingly

01:18:22.700 unprofessional and it didn't follow protocols. It doesn't mean illegal and it doesn't mean that

01:18:28.160 bad things are being attempted here, but it certainly raises more questions than it does

01:18:33.480 answers. And this kind of investigation doesn't need that kind of incident to happen. And there

01:18:37.680 may be other ones we don't even know about.

01:18:39.660 I'm with Will in that. My question is whether that first, that couple was FBI at all and whether

01:18:45.580 the FBI was being honest when it said to her the next day, oh, don't worry, they were FBI.

01:18:49.320 Like, I got questions, same as Will. Here's a little bit more from the neighbor describing

01:18:55.520 a weird man in the neighborhood around January 11th. Again, this is from Brian Enten on Monday.

01:19:02.820 About two weeks before, I have a picture window in my bathroom and I see all the people walking

01:19:10.480 by in the mornings. And I noticed this strange guy with his hat down really low. He was kind

01:19:16.480 of hunched over, not in, you know, walking or hiking gear.

01:19:20.540 And it stood out to you?

01:19:21.780 Oh, yeah.

01:19:22.340 And how often has something like that happened where it stood out to you enough to say something?

01:19:26.520 Um, not often at all. I see the same people. I think once, maybe 12 years ago, I saw a strange

01:19:31.860 guy.

01:19:32.240 Did you tell, um, the police?

01:19:34.360 I did. I told the FBI the day after they came here.

01:19:37.640 So you've got the pretty good view.

01:19:39.160 Oh, yeah. So Nancy's is up that way.

01:19:40.900 Yeah.

01:19:41.080 Okay.

01:19:42.340 And so you've got a pretty good view. And he was walking down the road and he was in

01:19:47.420 kind of street clothes, not shoes that you'd walk in. And he had a baseball hat really low

01:19:53.440 and he was kind of hunched over and he was kind of looking around and he just didn't fit. And he

01:19:58.860 wasn't going terribly quickly like a normal person that's getting exercise. It was kind of going slowly.

01:20:04.420 And when he walked by this street, he, um, he really took a long look at it. I noticed that.

01:20:12.360 I see that James. And I think never underestimate the power of a curious female neighbor, because 0.99

01:20:19.920 I do think like we've got our neighborhoods wired. So I actually am paying a lot of attention to what

01:20:25.620 that woman said and not for nothing, but it does connect to an NBC report that on January 11th,

01:20:30.920 okay. This is like the same. She says, this is when she saw, um, this man who didn't fit.

01:20:35.860 They report that two, two homeowners said when the investigators came to their home, um, that just

01:20:42.400 this past Thursday, they, that they additionally asked about any video footage from January 11th.

01:20:47.440 So it sounds like investigators are taking that date that she referenced seeing this guy who didn't

01:20:52.120 fit very seriously.

01:20:53.680 Yeah. And unfortunately you see this, you know, she's talking herself into it. Her intuition's pinging.

01:20:58.960 She's clearly, you know, curiosity and suspicion or messengers of intuition. And, and she's trying

01:21:04.340 to talk herself into having these feelings. She doesn't need to do that. And unfortunately,

01:21:08.680 at least from the reporting I just heard, she only said something to law enforcement. Once the FBI has

01:21:13.800 come after the Guthrie missing, why didn't she call 9-1-1 that day, you know, in January? That's when

01:21:20.580 she, people need to, if they see it, they need to call. That's this whole see something,

01:21:25.140 say something thing from DHS. Well, that's what they're talking about. And you need to get on the

01:21:29.440 phone and you can tell in the interview, she's trying to talk herself into it. She doesn't need

01:21:34.000 to. That was more than enough suspicion to call into the police. But unfortunately, you know, it was

01:21:40.540 a, after the fact, when she finally told somebody.

01:21:43.840 This reminds me of the baby Lisa investigation, baby Lisa Irwin, who was stolen from her crib in the

01:21:48.120 middle of the night, and the, in Kansas City, Missouri. And the, the night that she went missing,

01:21:55.660 the neighbors to her home, her, you know, where she was stolen from, saw a man with a baby who was

01:22:02.520 totally underdressed for the cold evening at midnight, almost midnight. And they didn't call

01:22:09.000 the cops, both the, both the wife and the husband saw a man with a baby and they didn't call the police.

01:22:14.280 I think too many of us say, oh, it's, it's not anything. I don't want to bother, right? I gotta,

01:22:18.720 I don't want to bother law enforcement, as opposed to just giving it over to the people who

01:22:22.600 are paid to decide whether this is a threat or it isn't, James.

01:22:27.920 Yeah. And as a police officer, you know, I cannot tell you a thousand times I've responded to some

01:22:32.500 nonsense 911 call. I mean, like literal nonsense. You know, this is not nonsense. Someone being

01:22:38.460 suspicious in a neighborhood, possibly casing houses, that's what we're being paid to do.

01:22:43.280 You know, if people had any idea how much nonsense is called in the 911 and police are

01:22:48.200 actually dispatched to, you know, they would not feel bad about calling for something like that,

01:22:52.680 which is something that the police need to be, you know, investigating.

01:22:57.340 I want to shift now to something that happened a few days ago. You guys were not on,

01:23:03.320 but it definitely grabbed our attention. And this is Sheriff Nanos making a quite,

01:23:07.740 quite a statement to NBC on March 2nd. Here it is, Sot49.

01:23:11.880 It's been 30 days since Nancy Guthrie went missing. Are investigators any closer to finding

01:23:16.680 the suspect or suspects? I think the investigators are definitely closer. We got a lot of intel,

01:23:22.420 a lot of leads, but now it's time to just go to work.

01:23:26.280 We also asked about that new ring camera video obtained by Fox News Digital showing a car two and

01:23:31.520 a half miles away. Is this really something we should be looking at? Look, what I would tell you

01:23:36.080 is this. We're aware of it and we're looking into it, just like any other piece of evidence.

01:23:41.720 Have you been able to identify the car that drove past at 2.36 a.m.? No. No. But you are looking to

01:23:47.440 identify it. We're looking at that vehicle as well as hundreds of thousands of other vehicles that

01:23:52.180 were out driving that time of day. We've now learned that maybe it wasn't purchased out of

01:23:56.820 Walmart. That backpack as new as exclusive to Walmart. But who's to say I didn't buy it and

01:24:01.860 put it on eBay? That's what we're looking at. We have information on this case that we think

01:24:07.180 is going to hopefully lead us to solving this case. But it takes time.

01:24:13.280 And you'll get there?

01:24:14.520 Absolutely. Absolutely.

01:24:16.320 Okay. So the sheriff's saying they are closer to finding a suspect. Does that strike you as just

01:24:22.600 puffery fits, just like a generic reassurance to the public? Or would he not do that?

01:24:29.500 Well, I suppose the opposite of that, Megan, would be they're farther away from identifying

01:24:33.620 the suspect. And he's certainly not going to say that. So yes, are there a lot of early leads they've

01:24:38.960 covered already and they can rule those out? And so that brings them somehow closer to whoever the

01:24:45.200 suspect is, yes. Look, and again, the other folks on this panel today have worked cases one way or

01:24:53.160 another. Unabomb and DC Sniper, I was right in the middle of those, and the Atlanta bombings for Eric

01:25:01.020 Rudolph. And the point is, you think you're getting so much closer, then you get frustrated, you get

01:25:05.200 closer, then that some of these other agents come up with ideas. Some of them are sort of out in left

01:25:10.520 field, but they still want to follow through on them, which maybe could have been one that people

01:25:14.180 were knocking on the house with hoodies, you know, when they were in some sort of a vain attempt to

01:25:19.900 get something done. So bottom line is, there's no doubt, looking at it on a linear scale, they are

01:25:26.000 getting closer, but only because they've ruled out so many other suspects at this point. Now the

01:25:31.080 question is collating everything they have, ping towers, cell phone records, and license plate readers,

01:25:38.420 facial recognition, all those things, and trying to get that one break that they've been looking for

01:25:42.980 all this time. So in that regard, they are closer, but we may not, we may be a long time yet from

01:25:48.160 actually having a name. It's still a shorter time frame than it took to arrest Brian Kohlberger

01:25:55.080 in the Idaho 4 case. And that's something to keep in mind, you know, the police were very much onto

01:26:00.820 some good leads in that case that we didn't know anything about. So that's somewhat reassuring,

01:26:05.880 although I don't know, now the task force out there has been reduced to reportedly four people.

01:26:12.580 It's, you know, a fraction of 400. And one does wonder, you know, whether they've run out or they're

01:26:19.580 just replowing old leads and they've run out of new ones. I do want to talk about the possible

01:26:25.220 information on the doorbell cam though, because I think all of us agree that's the best lead they

01:26:30.000 have. And you heard the sheriff there saying the, the backpack video has gone nowhere. Now they're

01:26:36.460 wondering whether the guy got it secondhand. So that's why they can't find it on any sort of

01:26:40.620 Walmart video of their suspect purchasing the backpack could have been an eBay purchase, et cetera.

01:26:46.080 The question about what actually happened in that video, where we see, they said at 147,

01:26:51.080 the wifi was disconnected. And at 212, notwithstanding the disconnection,

01:26:54.940 the system reflected that a body had been identified, an image had been identified.

01:27:01.720 And there was a very interesting discussion with a couple of people, a couple of discussions I want

01:27:07.540 to get to on this about how this could have happened, like what might've happened. Here's,

01:27:13.040 here is Jake Green. He's a digital forensics expert. And he spoke with our pal, Ashley Banfield,

01:27:20.120 about what could have happened. All right. And here's SOT 53, him speculating on what could

01:27:26.600 have happened at 147 versus 212 here. Really? The only thing is they wanted to make sure their,

01:27:31.040 their wifi deauthentication device was ready to go. So they rode by, checked it from the street,

01:27:37.480 was able to hit that wifi unit and make sure that it was actually receiving that signal. Uh,

01:27:42.540 and then came back a little bit later and hoped it was still working.

01:27:45.320 And it wasn't right. That's, that's exactly right. Is when they walked up,

01:27:50.500 it was definitely not working in plain English. That means that they may have tested the jammer

01:27:55.440 at 147 and it's disabled because it's jammed. They drove away for whatever reason,

01:28:01.960 and then came back at two 12 and it had reignited again and was back up and running and now captured

01:28:07.300 this image. That's right. And perhaps when he, perhaps when he walked up, it wasn't running in

01:28:11.520 his pocket. Okay. So the theory being that the perp had a wifi jammer, he tested it at 147 and it

01:28:18.400 worked. It successfully turned off Nancy Guthrie's wifi. But by the time he went back at two 12,

01:28:23.120 it had turned back on, which is why he got caught on camera. And those images were recoverable by the

01:28:28.700 FBI. This does dovetail somewhat with the neighbor's home near Nancy, who's now saying that

01:28:37.360 their wifi stopped working for a time on the night Nancy went missing. Here is, um, well,

01:28:43.960 this is video 50 where Brian Anton shows us this. Let's take a look. Okay. So he's just showing us

01:28:51.140 that that's Nancy's house and he's at the neighbor's house where the wifi went, where the cameras are and

01:28:58.280 where their, their wifi stopped working the night that Nancy went missing. I don't know. This is

01:29:07.540 like, this is awfully coincidental. Well, that you've got the neighbor's wifi that night that

01:29:13.320 stops working. It's right. The camera, the camera stopped working. I mean, we can presume, I guess

01:29:18.180 it's possibly wifi related. Um, and there's been a lot of speculation as you know, about whether that

01:29:23.000 guy was, whether what was in his pocket, uh, the, the patio suspect was a wifi jammer. Yeah. So the

01:29:30.660 first thing I'd want to check, Megan, is the timestamp of the neighbor's outage of their wifi to see

01:29:35.900 whether there is any indication of this corresponding at the same time as Nancy's being taken out or being

01:29:42.580 utilized. I mean, using wifi jammers is not that difficult. Um, you can get men a reasonably small 1.00

01:29:48.840 size, but you can also check them. I have used them myself, uh, on operations and projects. And

01:29:54.880 what you can find is it will knock out not just the wifi, but 3g, 4g, 5g as well. And you can test it

01:30:01.200 remotely. You don't have to necessarily go up to the target location and test it there. You would

01:30:06.400 generally have it on you. You check it, make sure it's running. And again, depending on where it might

01:30:11.580 be inserted, if it was put into the rockery at the front of the property as in what we call a green

01:30:17.160 option. So it's disguised or camouflaged, and then it knocks out the wifi. That's always a possibility,

01:30:22.660 but they're relatively easy to get your hands on Megan. Um, and if you do have any kind of wifi

01:30:28.260 connected cameras, yep, they will knock them out. Hmm. I mean, our producer, Jake Whitman,

01:30:34.260 who helped us do that wifi demonstration, remember that we did with the, um, the nest camera. Um,

01:30:40.020 he tells us that when you approach the nest doorbell camera and it's on the doorbell button lights up

01:30:46.400 very bright. He, he says it happens about six feet away. As you approach, it's impossible to miss.

01:30:51.660 And it tells you that the camera is capturing you, which I suppose is not a great indicator for an

01:30:58.560 intruder that his wifi jamming is no longer in effect from one 47 and that by two 12, it's gone off,

01:31:05.900 which, you know, again, this, this may not be a Mensa member that we saw in Nancy's patio fits.

01:31:10.400 And he may have found out the hard way when he returned in this video, we're watching here

01:31:14.920 that if he had tried to jam it at one 47, and now it's two 12, that has a limited lifespan.

01:31:21.780 Yeah. And Megan, I remember watching this video with you minutes after it was released and, uh,

01:31:26.100 we were, we were going through it, you know, frame by frame. We were trying to anyway. Well, um, I mean,

01:31:31.200 uh, this, this adds to the pre-offense behavior, which I've talked about a few times in the past

01:31:38.360 and the, and the attempt, at least a sophisticated, um, you know, a method of getting in this house

01:31:45.040 and breaking down, you know, uh, you know, any kind of electrical device or communication device,

01:31:50.020 obviously in the bombings of Iran, you know, that's being done by the U S or shutting down

01:31:54.100 internet and, and, and, and disabling all kinds of communication devices. Here's something of course,

01:31:59.060 it's very much different, very isolated to one home. And, uh, and this guy went out of his way

01:32:04.040 to buy this. Now, what does that tell you? What did he know about this house? Uh, and the system

01:32:09.260 contained therein before even going there to me, that's even more supportive of the fact that he's

01:32:14.720 been to this house before January 11th or, or sometime before that, a worker involved with security

01:32:20.340 systems, who knows what a vendor of some sort. Uh, and it's not just chance that you happen to have,

01:32:25.840 uh, you know, a, uh, uh, a disabling device such as this for the wifi. I never knew you could buy

01:32:31.720 these type things. I'll be honest with you. I'm not sure. And Intel agencies had them probably the

01:32:36.480 bureau, et cetera. Uh, but, uh, I'll go with what Will said. If you can buy these, uh, commercially

01:32:41.300 and just use them yourself. I'm not sure there's a legitimate purpose for shutting down someone's

01:32:46.600 wifi other than what this guy's doing, but, uh, good for him for at least attempting that, even though

01:32:52.660 it didn't exactly work out. So yeah, not on men's list. That's for sure. Megan, I mean, I'll say

01:32:57.420 this, but I will say this, the way you can avoid this at home is hardwire your cameras, hardwire.

01:33:03.920 You don't rely on the wifi. Go ahead, Will. Yeah. Well, wifi is always going to be fallible. It's,

01:33:10.120 it's, it's, it's a massive risk and it's always going to be vulnerable, but to cover off a couple

01:33:13.940 of the points that you and Fitz covered, uh, the first would be the actual camera light coming on

01:33:19.040 to detect obviously someone coming to the front door. Now that will have probably very little to

01:33:23.180 do with the wifi and we'll work on what we call a passive infrared. So it's, uh, an intrusion

01:33:27.720 detection. So if any object comes close to it, then the light will switch on. The second thing is

01:33:33.240 with these blockers, uh, as I mentioned, it will also take out all cell phone signals. So if someone's

01:33:39.580 coming in to do say a snatch or to break into a property and they want to disable the communications

01:33:45.240 by anybody inside of the house, other than of course the landline, um, then a blocker is perfect

01:33:51.700 for that because it will knock out obviously any cell phone signal and the ability to be able to

01:33:56.380 utilize it. Hmm. Well, how does that affect if at all the data that Nancy's pacemaker appears to have

01:34:04.860 been coordinating, communicating with her phone up until 2 28 that night, Will? So like if, if he was using

01:34:13.360 a wifi jammer, wouldn't it have presumably knocked out the communication between her cell phone and 0.97

01:34:18.940 the pacemaker? I mean, it would have, you're saying it would shut down the communications of the cell

01:34:22.320 phone. Absolutely. So, so that raises a very, very interesting question as to the viability of

01:34:28.460 actually using a blocker because it would have, I mean, without knowing the mic and model of the,

01:34:33.500 the actual pacemaker, whether it worked on a, um, a cased information that as soon as the connection

01:34:39.620 was regained and that would be the blockers either switched off or it's gone out of the area,

01:34:43.860 uh, then that information pulses through, uh, or how often it's received actually at the base

01:34:49.420 station or at the monitoring center. Uh, again, if it's permanent and it's constant, which I would

01:34:54.500 imagine it should be with a pacemaker, then yes, any interruption to that signal should activate some

01:35:00.400 sort of alarm or certainly some communication to, uh, the user or a monitoring station to say.

01:35:06.420 And just to clarify, just to clarify, are you saying that in your experience, then a wifi jammer

01:35:12.440 would knock out not because, you know, we've all had the situation where our wifi isn't working on

01:35:17.620 our phone, but the cell service will kick in and keep you able to communicate. But are you saying in

01:35:24.080 your experience, a wifi jammer would, would shut down both your wifi and your cell service?

01:35:29.920 Yes, it would knock out your data. So any kind of internet connection will be knocked out as well.

01:35:34.940 So if you, if you have a combined unit, so there are, there are lots of different types of units

01:35:39.420 out there. You can get your hands on Megan. Um, there are ones which will literally take out 1.00

01:35:43.480 cell phone signals. There were ones which will take out wifi and there are ones which are combined

01:35:47.560 that will do them both. Wow. Again, this doesn't sound great, James.

01:35:53.560 Well, no. And we were talking, I think, you know, early on about, you know, as, as much as we might

01:36:00.340 want to say, these people aren't that smart. Like I said, a long time ago, well, we haven't caught

01:36:04.960 them. So they're not that dumb. Um, and, and I do want to just highlight, there's a lot of talk 0.99

01:36:10.500 within, you know, my circles of FBI folks that, you know, South American threat, you know, South 0.91

01:36:15.720 American groups that go around and do these real high end burglaries that you see with all, uh, NFL 0.92

01:36:21.880 stars, you know, that this is their MO that they do pre-operational surveillance. They dress like this.

01:36:28.400 They use jammers. They use burner phones, cell phones. It, you know, this to me would speak to

01:36:35.340 a lot of what we're seeing here. You know, they, the inability to have any type of evidence without,

01:36:41.080 you know, for instance, the DNA or any type of, you know, people knowing who these individuals are,

01:36:46.140 well, if they're coming from out of the country, you're not going to know who they are. Uh, the, 0.98

01:36:49.520 you know, not getting any type of cell phone evidence so far that we haven't seen any updates on

01:36:54.020 that, which we're kind of surprised by. And the last show, we talked a lot about the Bureau's

01:36:58.180 capability. Well, if you're running burner phones, it's really hard to really do anything with that.

01:37:02.580 And then, you know, so that's a, for me, I think a really good lead that hopefully someone at the

01:37:07.340 Bureau, if Sheriff Nano will let them do it is working on, but I did want to double back that

01:37:11.760 interview. And I think I heard this correctly that he, he told that interviewer that, you know,

01:37:16.320 there's a hundred thousand cars they're looking at that night at 2 AM. Well, certainly that must've

01:37:22.020 been a miss, uh, an ability to misspeak. There can be a hundred thousand cars at 2 AM it within a two

01:37:29.960 mile proximity of her home. Right. That's like every member of Tucson, every resident. Right.

01:37:36.200 At 2 AM. So I, I just, I don't like to second or, uh, put down the importance of that look like

01:37:42.960 a Kia to me, that little white car. Um, but there couldn't have been that many cars out that late at

01:37:48.460 night. That's a good lead. And, and I, I just maybe didn't like that comment. Well, I didn't

01:37:53.220 like any of the comments, Megan. Wait, I want to hear, I want to hear both of those comments. I

01:37:57.700 want to hear what you're going to say, Will, and then I also want to hear. No, I was just going to

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01:40:09.820 Hey, everyone. It's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel

01:40:18.060 on Sirius XM. It's called the Megan Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered

01:40:23.220 with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people like

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01:40:46.320 We're back now with our panel. Okay, Will, you wanted to say something about the Sheriff

01:40:49.540 Nonos interview.

01:40:50.160 Yeah, the whole thing, Megan, it just grated and made me cringe. I have to say, I've been

01:40:57.900 involved in a number of missing persons cases. Some have turned into just disappearances. Some

01:41:02.900 of them have turned into kidnappings. But, you know, the first thing was the optimism that he

01:41:08.340 pushed forward. And that's something you've got to catch so carefully. The family are watching,

01:41:12.960 loved ones, friends, all sorts of people are watching. You can't get people's hopes up unnecessarily.

01:41:18.160 And the second thing is I'm no law enforcement expert. And you've got to the Bureau's finest

01:41:23.120 with me here on the panel, and I'm sure they'll have their opinions on it. But he was talking about

01:41:27.840 evidence. And there is a distinct difference between intelligence and evidence. And when he's

01:41:33.100 talking about the 100,000 or so cars that were driving past, he referred to his evidence.

01:41:38.140 And in my book, that is purely intelligence until you can prove it to be evidence.

01:41:42.540 Hmm. We did look it up. There's 500,000 residents of Tucson. And in that clip, he said,

01:41:48.080 we're looking at that vehicle as well as hundreds of thousands of other vehicles that were out driving

01:41:52.820 that time of day. Yeah, to your point, James, not too plausible, not at 2.30 in the morning.

01:41:59.360 But can I just follow up with you on your comment about, you know, potential south of the border

01:42:03.920 intrusion into Nancy's house? The biggest thing in my mind undermining that theory has always been

01:42:11.200 why? Like, where's the ransom demand, right? Like, wouldn't wouldn't that have been a ransom

01:42:16.660 type operation? And we believe one never came unless you believe, you know, that crypto demand

01:42:23.360 that happened early on. No. So yeah, my bad. The South American, you know, theft groups are not a

01:42:30.400 cartel. They're not a Mexican cartel type of situation. They are predominantly from Colombia,

01:42:36.180 Chile, Chile, Nicaragua, Venezuela. And they do high-end burglaries. They go into homes,

01:42:43.320 usually at night, that they've done pre-operational surveillance of, and then they steal. And then,

01:42:48.660 you know, they're very famously linked to NFL players, Travis Kelsey, Joe Burrow,

01:42:55.360 the Cincinnati Bengals quarterback, and... What do you mean linked to them?

01:43:00.020 Travis Kelsey is operating a South American burglary ring?

01:43:03.740 You know, they hit their houses and stole their stuff while they were playing in games. And, you

01:43:09.320 know, it made... Yeah, and the Bureau has been looking at it for several years. It's a very

01:43:15.180 organized group. They're very good at what they do. And what they really specialize in are these,

01:43:20.180 you know, high-end residential burglaries. And they really like homes like Nancy Guthrie's house,

01:43:25.800 which is, you know, desolate, backed up to either woods, golf course, trails, something like that.

01:43:31.160 And they show some type of pre-operational surveillance. All those things are hitting

01:43:34.860 with regards to this case. And if you look, I mean, anyone can do a quick Google search of

01:43:39.680 previous South American theft group, you know, CCTV footage, and it's the same MO. You'll see them.

01:43:47.180 They're operating with their backpacks, hoods on, black gloves. It's, you know, again, it's a lead that

01:43:54.680 I think certainly Nano or somebody needs to be working on. But the question would be then,

01:44:00.320 Fitz, why take Nancy? Because if we go by the Wi-Fi jammer discussion, and, you know, that's got

01:44:06.820 some asterisks on it per the discussion with Will. Like if they had a Wi-Fi jammer that would have

01:44:12.820 shut down the cell phone, why aren't they telling us that the cell phone stopped communicating with

01:44:19.380 the pacemaker earlier than 212? It should have stopped communicating around 147 when they did

01:44:24.900 the alleged jamming. But why would they take, why would South Americans take Nancy? And anyway,

01:44:34.120 what I was going to go for on the timing was if the intruder video on the porch was from 212,

01:44:41.360 right, jammed at 147, the guy showed up at 212. And we are told that that, we believe the reporting

01:44:46.600 is that that was at 212 that we saw the video of the guy trying to get in. It shortens the time

01:44:51.180 that the guy was inside the house from 212 to 228 potentially, which is only 16 minutes by my math.

01:44:58.020 And I guess you could get in and start robbing a place, but like to get in, rob the place and grab

01:45:03.300 an old lady and get back out to the car in 16 minutes, it still leaves me so many questions.

01:45:07.860 Why would a South American, you know, burglary ring want an 84-year-old lady? 0.94

01:45:11.880 All right. Go ahead, Fisk, but let me jump on that after Fisk.

01:45:17.440 Yeah, just real quick. And I appreciate what James was saying. Back in the 90s, it was the Yaks, 1.00

01:45:21.720 Yugos, Albanians, Croates, and Slavs who were doing these kind of high-end burgers. They were

01:45:26.280 very difficult to catch. They would wear uniforms like this and whatever. And real quick, when the

01:45:32.400 jammer, if that, you know, I'm not sure what kind of reverse engineering can take place to determine

01:45:37.500 if that did in fact happen at the Guthrie residence, as well as the neighbors, that would be very good

01:45:42.740 to know. And there's also one more product. I'm not sure how many people are out there buying

01:45:46.900 Wi-Fi jammers on wherever site you can buy them, but that's something I'm not giving anything away

01:45:51.700 here. Obviously, the investigators are looking into, if in fact that's valid, let's find out who's been

01:45:57.140 buying, you know, these type of jammers over the next, over the last year. But yeah, back to Mrs.

01:46:02.260 Guthrie, there's no doubt through her daughter, she's worth some money, multiple millions of 0.89

01:46:08.380 dollars. The reward itself is for one. But did they really think, I can see NFL players and other

01:46:15.040 celebrities getting the bling ring out in LA, those kinds of people getting burglarized. But Mrs.

01:46:21.640 Guthrie, especially if we think someone may have been in the house, I don't think there's any

01:46:25.640 information she had, you know, expensive artwork or jewelry. Any of the pictures we see doesn't have

01:46:30.620 that with her. So I'm not sure this would be a classic place to burglarize. Maybe some teenagers

01:46:37.480 looking for booze or something, but that's not what we have here. And then the burglary goes bad

01:46:41.740 and they wind up kidnapping, which just ups the stakes so exponentially in so many different ways

01:46:47.060 in terms of the risk value. So I would be very surprised if this was, in fact, a burglary like that.

01:46:52.880 James is right in who he describes doing these things, the yaks, as we used to call them back in the 0.99

01:46:57.380 90s. But I'm not sure this would be the ideal house they would go after because they wouldn't

01:47:02.160 have the quick merchandise to get rid of within a day or so. Go ahead, James. Yeah, I was just going

01:47:07.300 to say that, you know, we do have information very early on that there was forced entry that, of

01:47:11.980 course, we haven't heard directly from the sheriff, but we did hear from other law enforcement

01:47:16.260 sources there was forced entry to the back of the house. So there was two people, which a lot of people

01:47:20.160 have always thought there was more than just a guy on the front porch. So your timeline might be a

01:47:25.440 little off and we've got people going in the back, they're already inside. And if they expected for

01:47:30.640 her to not be there for it to be an empty home, like they usually do, and then God forbid, there

01:47:35.140 she is, and there's a struggle or something happens, you know, and she dies, God forbid,

01:47:40.760 none of us have ever really said this was a kidnapping. I think Will and I from the very

01:47:44.660 beginning have always felt like this was an abduction, not necessarily a kidnapping because there

01:47:49.160 was no ransom. So God forbid they do a robbery, she dies either through a heart attack or they hit

01:47:55.280 her or something causing the blood. What do you do with the body? They decide to take it. Well,

01:47:59.940 maybe they think they can take it down South. I, again, I think it's a, it's strange, but that's

01:48:04.620 the thing about this case. It's never made any sense to me. Why take the body? Why do that? It's

01:48:08.980 never made any sense to me. Um, cause it's, by the way, it's hard to do. It's hard to carry

01:48:13.540 if she's a hundred pounds. It's hard to carry a hundred pound body out. You know, you need a 1.00

01:48:18.520 hundred and fifty reportedly. Well, then it's even harder. You know, it just is never made any sense

01:48:23.760 to me. But the more I look at these photos of these, all these other South American gangs that

01:48:29.280 have been caught in the last three years, it's the same MO. It's the backpack. It's the hood. It's the

01:48:34.880 face covering. It's the wifi jammer working in pairs, black gloves. It's just on and on and on. The more I

01:48:41.540 look at it, I think, you know, I'm not saying that that's it 100%, but I certainly would be going

01:48:45.960 down that lead bucket and that's exactly what they're working on now are, you know, buckets of

01:48:50.100 leads, um, that somebody certainly, I hope from the Bureau is working that angle. Well, that would

01:48:55.680 explain some of the sophistication that we do see. And like that we, we kind of been making fun of

01:48:59.600 this guy because of the vegetation to cover the doorbell camera, but you know, the whole mouth light

01:49:04.560 and a wifi jammer potentially, and the face covering. I'm like, this is not, it didn't look like

01:49:09.660 necessarily the guy's first rodeo and that, I mean, that would be consistent. Go ahead, Will.

01:49:15.360 Yeah. I mean, there's, there's two aspects that the OCGs, the organized crime groups that do these

01:49:20.720 high-end robberies and home invasions. We have a lot of them over here in Europe, for example. And

01:49:26.100 again, they target professional sportsmen when they're off playing a game somewhere around the

01:49:30.840 world or certainly in Europe, or if they're on vacation, they publicize it on their social media,

01:49:36.000 letting everybody know in the band it's included that their home is vacant and it can be broken

01:49:40.860 into. But these guys aren't shy about turning up, uh, robbing the house, zip tying the family if

01:49:47.240 need be, and then obviously getting them to open safes and that sort of thing and hand over various

01:49:51.700 jewelry. Um, sorry, James, I'm going to have to disagree with you. I'm still going with a kidnapping

01:49:56.800 on this one. Um, my feeling, Megan, fundamentally is on all these robberies of high ends or even low

01:50:04.600 ends or whatever, uh, the, the, the, the likelihood of removing the occupant is going to be very, very

01:50:09.800 low. They'll zip tie them. They'll suppress them. I don't think Nancy probably could have put up much 1.00

01:50:14.540 of a fight against a couple of intruders or certainly the, the lump that turned up at her front

01:50:19.160 door. Uh, and my feeling is that it's because it's Savannah's mom and because it got so much traction

01:50:27.060 so quickly in the media, I think I'll ultimately whoever took her and whatever intention they had

01:50:34.440 in issuing a ransom demand against the return of Nancy, I think they panicked. And I think very

01:50:40.820 sadly, I think they've probably disposed of, of Ms. Guthrie. Hmm. I still have my money on the whole

01:50:48.360 thing was a murder made to look like an abduction. That's if I had to put money, like, you know,

01:50:54.920 people stop me on the street and I'm sure they stop you guys all the time to say, what do you think

01:50:58.360 happened? If I had to place a bet, I'd say somebody had a reason to get rid of her and they went in 0.99

01:51:05.000 there, they grabbed her, they got rid of her. And this was never a kidnapping or anything else. It

01:51:11.140 was a, it was a murder and a coverup, you know, to get rid of the body fits your thoughts. Yeah.

01:51:17.020 And it goes back to, uh, one of the first words I use with you four weeks ago, uh, victimology,

01:51:21.540 uh, of, of not just Mrs. Guthrie, Nancy herself, but certainly Savannah and her family members,

01:51:27.180 who did they upset over the years, not just months, but years we've learned, you know, maybe decades.

01:51:32.760 Is there some other reason there that, uh, and I'm not saying one of the family members undertook

01:51:37.380 this and I'm repeating myself here, but there's a, there's a reason for it. You know, I'm following

01:51:42.180 and I like to be a little, bring a little bit of historical basis here when I can. And I'm following

01:51:46.600 a podcast now about the case of, uh, the missing candy heiress, Helen Brock from 1977. She just

01:51:52.880 disappeared, uh, out of nowhere, never to be found. She was a very wealthy woman. So different in that

01:51:58.120 regard. Uh, there's no forced entry that we know of her blood, but she just disappeared after 0.82

01:52:02.680 her trick to the Mayo Clinic out of suburban Chicago. It's a very interesting story. Never

01:52:06.960 solved, no idea where she is. And that's been over almost 50 years. I'm just hoping this isn't

01:52:12.280 the type, same type of case that never goes anywhere. There was no video of people coming

01:52:16.700 in the door, of course, back in the late seventies, but in this case we have that. But, uh, I think

01:52:22.200 it somewhere in the emails or people that have visited one or more of, uh, the family members,

01:52:27.900 that will be the culprit here, if not the person himself and associate of his. And that's how this

01:52:33.500 thing will get eventually resolved. And we hope it does. And we hope by chance, Mrs. Guthrie makes

01:52:38.560 that alive. Fitz, I know you got to go. Thank you for your input and expertise as always. I'm going

01:52:44.940 to continue on with Will and James. The thing that undermines the South American theory is, um,

01:52:52.180 yeah, potentially that they didn't demand a ransom. And I like, I don't know. I, I think to me,

01:53:00.500 why would they target like Nancy's home? Wasn't even the nicest home there. Like we, there's been

01:53:06.460 reporting that the, the neighborhood has got a lot nicer homes than Nancy. So if you're going to go in

01:53:10.160 there and target somebody, why would you go to her house? And I'm sure they would have like done

01:53:15.040 some surveillance of the house. It's not like Nancy was a world traveler and they could see, oh,

01:53:19.300 that house is never occupied. You know, let's hit that one up. I think she, she was an 84 year old

01:53:24.060 lady who was there most of the days and most of the hours of most of the days. So I don't know if

01:53:31.140 that makes much sense to me. Um, it does make sense to me though, if you think about where's the evidence

01:53:37.120 that they left behind, where's the DNA, where are the fingerprints, where are the mistakes, right?

01:53:43.740 Like that, but then I'll argue against myself because it doesn't look like the sheriff is the

01:53:49.480 most sophisticated investigator. If I, if I've got James Fitz and will on this case from the

01:53:54.880 beginning, then I have confidence, but I feel like, you know, with all due respect to the sheriff,

01:53:59.820 I don't have any confidence in him. So is it that the guy left no clues or is it that the sheriff

01:54:05.360 found none will? Right. Um, I don't think, I think the problem is they've had probably so many

01:54:13.020 inquiries. They've had so many tips. They've had so many pieces of information and that, and we've

01:54:18.480 got this undercurrent of disdain that the sheriff holds the bureau in, that he is not collaborating.

01:54:25.140 There's no teamwork. I mean, I think as you, as you isolated just now, Megan, you know, if it was

01:54:30.000 Fitz, James and myself, you know, we'd all play well together and we'd all throw in together. And

01:54:35.200 and brainstorm what avenues we should pursue and look at. What we've got here is two separate

01:54:40.600 camps trying to achieve the same, you know, the same goal and, and ultimately not working

01:54:45.600 well together. And I think the problem, uh, just in that statement that you played a little earlier,

01:54:50.780 Megan, of what he was saying and the, the, the, the, the lack of understanding the difference

01:54:55.140 between intelligence and evidence just speaks volumes to me about someone who doesn't really

01:55:00.120 understand probably anything more than just very low level criminality.

01:55:03.300 Well, and also, also James, the thing about the sheriff's statement, and I'm glad you raised

01:55:07.740 this well, because it speaks to a lack of carefulness. He's not careful. The sheriff is

01:55:15.380 like we've seen him misstate facts repeatedly and then have to go back and say, Oh, I misstated

01:55:20.400 that, you know, the, just the one that comes to mind, but there, there've been many is he

01:55:24.200 said she was taken from her bed. And then he came out and said, Oh, I misstated that, that

01:55:28.380 I didn't mean to say that. And then of course, Savannah came out and her statement and said,

01:55:31.780 my, our mother was taken from her bed. So who knows what the truth is, but he's not careful.

01:55:36.920 And I think if this were my mother, I would want somebody running this investigation who is

01:55:41.200 extremely careful. And, and you're not, when you're not careful with your language,

01:55:45.600 you're not careful behind the scenes either.

01:55:47.700 Yeah. Well, that's what Will was saying with regards to false hope, you know, and saying,

01:55:53.920 we're going to find her. Well, you can't do that. I mean, you can say, we'll do everything in our

01:55:57.520 power to find her. We've got everybody and their brother working on this thing. We won't stop,

01:56:01.660 you know, until we have answers, but to tell the family, you know, that we're going to find her

01:56:05.960 alive. I don't think you can do that. Um, not careful to your point, Megan, not careful at all.

01:56:11.960 Uh, and I would just, you know, back to your question about why her house, you know, there's,

01:56:16.940 there's kind of always been two theories on this deal. It's, it's, they knew who she was,

01:56:20.820 you know, kind of your theory, Megan, it was a murder because they knew who she was. They went

01:56:24.660 in to get her by name. And then there's the random, right? It wrong play. They hit this house.

01:56:29.860 They didn't know who it was. And now, like Will said, this big crap storm comes down on them. Like, 0.99

01:56:34.080 oh my God. Um, so, you know, that could definitely be in play with regards to this criminal,

01:56:38.680 you know, burglary group. But the reason that the house could have been targeted is just based on

01:56:44.340 layout, just based on, yeah, it may not be the quote unquote nicest house in the neighborhood,

01:56:49.260 but it most, it might've been the most accessible, meaning it, it offered the best ingress,

01:56:54.820 egress, an ability to conceal yourself coming and going. And that might have overruled maybe,

01:57:01.320 oh, that, you know, house on the streets looks nicer, but they might've said, but this looks,

01:57:05.720 you know, from a operational standpoint, easier to get in and out of and keep ourselves, you know,

01:57:11.880 you know, hidden. Um, so you, you gotta think about those things.

01:57:15.160 What do you think, James, if that were the case, like South Americans and, and I,

01:57:18.240 I'm very interested in what you're saying about how this is their MO. If you look at the,

01:57:21.380 how that guy looked and approached the front door, but like, wouldn't we be seeing a pattern

01:57:26.840 in Tucson? You know, what are the odds that the first time they tried to do this in Tucson,

01:57:31.200 they hit on Savannah Guthrie's mom's house? Well, no, there's a lot of evidence about,

01:57:36.460 you know, operating in the Tucson area, Scottsdale, all, I mean, there's, it's all over the country.

01:57:42.040 It's not germane just to one particular area. And so, you know, there are cases of these groups

01:57:47.640 in Arizona. That's just a fact. So, you know, again, did it just happen to be this first one

01:57:53.440 in Tucson? I don't think so. Um, but we don't know because, you know, they haven't been caught.

01:57:58.180 Hmm. Okay. Here's more. Um, our pal, Ashley had an interesting episode the other day where she

01:58:03.880 had on a bunch of investigators and just asked them their theory. Like, what do you think happened?

01:58:08.200 And, uh, one, a cold case investigator named Paul Holes, he had a couple of thoughts that I wanted

01:58:13.100 to run by you guys here. Here's, let's listen to top 55 first. You know, everybody right now is

01:58:18.580 thinking that this crime occurred in a linear fashion. You know, you have Nancy coming home from

01:58:24.480 dinner, garage door is closing, and then offender shows up on her, on her front porch. And then

01:58:31.100 he gets into the house, assaults Nancy, abducts Nancy, drives off. Based on other cases that

01:58:40.100 I've worked, I would not dismiss the possibility that the offender was inside the house when Nancy

01:58:48.300 came home. Hmm. And now he is attacking Nancy, getting control of her or worse. And then going

01:58:59.300 out in front with that costume on and posing in front of the, the, the camera at a certain time

01:59:05.360 of night saying, here I am the bad guy that came and abducted Nancy. Hmm. This guy, he was actually on

01:59:12.640 our show in June of 2022 on, uh, the Golden State Killer case, episode 344. Um, so that's kind of

01:59:21.100 interesting. I don't totally understand why he'd be going out front in his little getup if he already

01:59:25.960 had control of Nancy, other than to just make it look like something other than what it was. And I'm

01:59:31.320 just going to give you a little bit more from his theory before I toss it to you guys. Here's top 56.

01:59:35.040 I think the video of him on that front porch with that costume on is so compelling based on my

01:59:43.580 experience that he is wanting to be seen. He wants to be seen in that costume because he he's going,

01:59:50.300 this is an abduction for ransom. And I believe thoroughly, this is misdirection. He was there

01:59:56.660 to harm Nancy and he pre-planned this crime to set it up to look like it's this, this abduction

02:00:05.020 for ransom. When the offender does that, that's what we call staging. And that's because the

02:00:11.100 offender in his mind thinks that he is likely going to be a suspect. And this could be somebody

02:00:17.520 very close to Nancy, or it could be somebody who delivered something to her house a year prior.

02:00:24.320 But in his mind, he's going, I have a connection to her, the victim. I have a connection to that

02:00:28.980 address. And so I have to make it look like something. It's not.

02:00:32.480 This is very funny because I listened, I listened to that episode by Ashley,

02:00:36.940 but I was tired when I was listening to it and I kind of drifted off for part of it. And I missed

02:00:42.280 Paul Holtz's theory entirely. I guess I slept through his part. And my executive producer,

02:00:47.720 Steve Krakauer, who's as into this case as we are, he was like, did you hear the Paul Holtz? I'm like,

02:00:52.600 no. And anyway, it's, it's, that is very interesting. You guys that this, I mean,

02:00:57.760 if that's what this is, that this purpose is brilliant, that, that, that he was inside the

02:01:04.160 whole time. He, this was all meant to get rid of Nancy, but then as a misdirection, he goes outside

02:01:12.000 in the getup with the, the mouth light and the whole, like, we can't rule it out. Paul Holtz is

02:01:18.320 legit. Um, I saw you shaking your head. No, though, Will, you don't like it.

02:01:23.400 I, I'm not liking it at all. I don't know what James is going to say on it. Um, I've always run

02:01:29.840 on a very linear basis with many of these things in 30 odd years of dealing with kidnapping ransom

02:01:34.840 and missing people. It's usually pretty straightforward. Um, you know, you never

02:01:39.840 kidnap the person who's going to pay the ransom. You're going to make sure that the person that you

02:01:44.560 do kidnap is connected to someone who has sufficient money to be able to pay a ransom. Um, it is as

02:01:50.520 simple as that. I think staging this sort of masquerade outside of, uh, standing out there

02:01:56.680 with the gun in the wrong holster, um, with the baggy clothes, with, uh, the ski mask on,

02:02:02.860 I think it's too highfalutin for, for, for, for, for, and it doesn't sit well with my gut.

02:02:07.940 We're on vacay right now, James. And, um, the other night we watched the movie, The Others.

02:02:13.080 It was, you know, it's 20 years old with Nicole Kidman and I'm going to do a spoiler here. So if you

02:02:17.860 haven't seen The Others, you might want to turn down the sound, but, um, it's about Nicole Kidman

02:02:22.820 raising her kids in this creepy house that's haunted and they're having to deal with ghosts

02:02:26.420 all the time. They don't, they don't know what this is. And the kids say, oh, I see a little boy.

02:02:30.180 And she's like, there's no little boy. You're weird. What, what's happening? And at the end of

02:02:33.280 the movie, you find out that here's the spoiler. She and the children are the ghosts and the alleged

02:02:39.940 ghosts they're seeing are the real people who have moved into the house. This is that level twist.

02:02:44.400 If that's like, this guy is a setup and not at all like the, there to abduct Nancy, but

02:02:52.260 really just there to throw us off and make us think that there may be like a South, South

02:02:56.020 American or some other kind of connection. And really this whole thing was a, was a murder 0.88

02:03:00.420 that's happened inside the house from a guy lying in wait. Who's very clever and has maybe

02:03:05.660 been watching a lot of true crime. Yeah. I'm with Will. I don't, I don't buy any of that.

02:03:11.060 I think it's interesting. Um, but why would you put the get up on it? I think the investigator's

02:03:17.360 theory was that he wanted to be caught. Well, if he wants to be caught, then take the mask

02:03:21.740 off and expose yourself. Um, the actions on the porch, the more you look at the cup of

02:03:27.440 the hand and will explaining the light, you know, to me, it just looks like the guys trying

02:03:31.980 to see is the jammer not working, you know, and I want to see, yeah, right there is my, he's

02:03:36.900 cupping that thing to see the light in the camera to see if the thing is on or not. That's

02:03:42.040 what it looks to me like. That's what he's doing with the, this, you know, the, the flowers,

02:03:47.340 it's, you know, trying to see, am I getting any type of light from the motion detector?

02:03:52.140 You know, to me, that makes complete sense if they don't think their jammer is actually

02:03:56.360 working. Um, but I, as far as him waiting inside while, you know, for her to get home,

02:04:02.540 you'd have to know a lot, you'd have to know a lot about where she was, what time she's

02:04:07.520 expected back. Um, but why take the body? Also what happened to her then James? Like

02:04:13.480 what happened if she, if when she got home, you know, around nine o'clock that night,

02:04:18.740 what happened between nine and two 30 AM? They just sat there having tea? Like the pacemaker

02:04:24.700 continued communicating, like what was going on? It doesn't make sense. The evidence doesn't

02:04:29.320 speak to that. And then why take the body? If you're going to just beat her up and kill 0.99

02:04:33.780 her, why take the body? I mean, I've worked a lot of homicides and they just don't take 0.99

02:04:37.980 the body. Like it, it, that's never made sense to me. If it was a purely, you know, I know

02:04:43.340 who she is. I'm going to kill her. Then why take the body? Right. That doesn't make sense, 1.00

02:04:47.020 but not getting, and again, we haven't got a lot of information out of anyone on this case,

02:04:52.320 but not having any DNA, not having a fingerprint, not having any IMEI cell phone information,

02:04:58.980 again, speaks to people that know what they're doing, or there's no record of these people,

02:05:04.200 right? You got to remember if, if it is a group coming from another country, we're not going to 1.00

02:05:08.440 have DNA fingerprints. That stuff doesn't, it doesn't work that way. So if you come in here

02:05:13.240 on a tourist visa from Peru or Chile, they don't swab you and take your DNA or your fingerprints when

02:05:20.160 you're coming here as a tourist. So we're not going to have that information that to me again,

02:05:24.800 speaks to lack of matching of any type of evidence that they've found in the case.

02:05:30.220 It's just, it's so confusing. I mean, Matt Murphy, you know, former prosecutor in Orange County,

02:05:35.080 California wrote the book of murder. Um, he's all along been reminding us there is a possibility of

02:05:41.200 a sexual assault here, even though, you know, it's terrible to think about this old lady, 0.99

02:05:44.880 but we've all seen cases in which that's happened. I mean, if that were the case, there would be a

02:05:50.160 reason to take the body because there would definitely be potentially identifying DNA and

02:05:55.700 even without a sexual assault, there, there may have been the risk of DNA. There was a struggle.

02:06:00.560 Clearly there was a struggle and maybe they were worried that their DNA got on her and she was

02:06:05.400 deceased and they were not going to leave behind. You know, this was obviously somebody who was

02:06:08.940 somewhat careful. Um, and it's possible this person said, I'm not leaving that behind. I'm taking

02:06:14.400 the evidence of my presence here with me, but that doesn't answer the, the why of why they were

02:06:21.040 there to begin with something where we're just all still scratching our heads about. So at this

02:06:24.940 point, you guys, do you think, so we're, she was taken on the first of, um, February and now we are

02:06:32.300 on March 10th. Uh, so do you think, do you think we'll like, where would you put that likelihood

02:06:38.460 that an arrest in this case will be made some 20? Wow. I don't want to do the math. What day are we

02:06:45.380 on? 35? I, I, I think, I think there's, there's all to, I think if, if the investigation is led

02:06:51.100 correctly and I think if all the leads that are pursued, there's every good chance. And there's

02:06:56.040 a very good probability that the contributing intelligence to become evidence will be generated

02:07:02.560 from, uh, a neighbor will come from the technology that James has just been referring to, that if

02:07:08.480 that is interrogated correctly, if it's provenanced, then there's every good chance that they may

02:07:14.260 find someone. I, I personally think that, uh, you know, there was evidently a struggle, you know,

02:07:19.960 they, they picked up obviously on the, the, and confirmed the blood on the porch area outside the

02:07:25.420 front door was Nancy's. So there evidently was a struggle in removing her from that property, 0.99

02:07:30.740 whether she was assaulted sexually or otherwise, uh, we, we don't know, obviously at this stage.

02:07:36.560 Um, ultimately I think it is going to be the recovery of Nancy. Um, unfortunately I don't

02:07:42.280 believe in any great condition. Uh, I'm sad to say certainly at this time and period where I've had,

02:07:48.660 uh, a drop in any kind of communications, whether because of the panic of say, if it was a kidnapping,

02:07:54.540 the kidnappers fearing that their apprehension is going to be so much more heightened.

02:07:58.800 Now it's got so much publicity that, you know, more often than not, and I think I've referred

02:08:03.600 to as a similar case when I was in South Africa where a young girl was taken, um, and it was

02:08:10.260 publicized in the local newspaper, garnished a lot with the local TV, the kidnappers killed

02:08:15.880 the hostage, uh, and they were never found. They found the dead body of the hostage and that was it.

02:08:21.260 Um, day 38 to correct myself. Go ahead, James, your, your thoughts on whether we

02:08:26.600 will actually get a resolution in this case.

02:08:29.880 I feel like you will get a resolution. Um, I, the inability to, to, you know, find an 84,

02:08:36.400 four year old woman and her never to be found. It's just incredibly rare. It's so rare. I know

02:08:42.100 Fitch was talking about some case that he's looking at, but that's why he's looking at it because they

02:08:46.700 are so incredibly rare. They just don't happen where the body just, you know, goes away. The

02:08:52.160 person just vanishes off the face of the earth, especially an 84 year old woman. So I feel, I feel 1.00

02:08:57.760 like we're going to get a, you know, some type of resolution in this case eventually. Um, but you

02:09:04.240 know, whether she's still with us, I, as the days go on, I'm less and less hopeful for that. Um,

02:09:10.900 just based on, you know, my, my past and it's unfortunate to say, but, um, I think we will

02:09:17.960 finally get some resolution, but it's going to be a while every day I wake up thinking we're going

02:09:21.960 to have a break. Um, but nothing. And you never know. I mean, they may be a lot closer than we

02:09:28.860 know. It took 47 days between the Idaho four murders and the day we found out that they had

02:09:33.780 arrested Brian Kohlberger. So 47 and now we're on day 38 again. It's not, doesn't mean we're, we have

02:09:40.240 another nine or 10 days. It's just, just as a benchmark, it's kind of interesting. Cause there

02:09:44.580 too, we thought that we were dealing with buffoonery and cops who didn't know what they

02:09:49.440 were doing. And sure enough, they, they did indeed. And they got that. They got their man

02:09:53.140 who's now behind bars for the rest of his life. Guys, thank you both so much. Love talking to you.

02:09:58.180 You're welcome. Great seeing you. Um, now the last thing I wanted to say to the audience before,

02:10:03.860 to all of you, before we go is there was video released, uh, recently of Savannah back on the

02:10:13.220 today show set. She's back in New York. Um, and this past Thursday, this was released of Savannah

02:10:21.460 in studio one. A TMZ has the video back saying thank you to all of her colleagues. You can see

02:10:28.640 it's the cast of the today show and the crew of the today show. And I have to say, this struck me as

02:10:37.320 an extremely cynical thing for NBC to do. Um, I'm intimately familiar with studio one a and the

02:10:44.800 facilities all around it. And there was plenty, plenty of space for them to do this reunion without

02:10:52.400 putting it on camera for all of us to see. Obviously they wanted to show us Savannah in

02:10:58.880 there, hugging everybody and everybody hugging her. And in my view, NBC turned this moment into

02:11:04.720 a PR opportunity because throughout this thing, they have been pushing the lie that it's just one

02:11:09.720 big, happy family at the today show. Meanwhile, just read the daily mail because at least once a

02:11:14.480 week, there is some backstabbing article about what's really happening behind the scenes there

02:11:18.460 and how they're, they're eye rolling that she's back. And now she's like their boss and

02:11:23.220 they're going to have to behave differently now that she's back and about how Hoda is desperate

02:11:27.260 to get back on this set and get her seat back. And NBC did not need to do this. First of all,

02:11:34.100 the, there are covers for those windows. So if they really just wanted to make it easy and not move

02:11:37.860 the crew immediately outside the actual studio that's on air, they could have lowered the window

02:11:42.380 covers. Second of all, there's plenty of space right outside of the studio, but they put this

02:11:47.620 on display, which is just voyeuristic in my view. Like this is so weird. And look at,

02:11:53.900 they have Savannah basically facing out the windows and all the crew sitting there, like her, 0.98

02:11:58.960 her court, you know, the queen is back and this is her court. This is very, very vile to me.

02:12:05.100 Like if she wants to make a statement on camera, the way she has, everybody's going to listen to that.

02:12:10.540 But what they're trying to do is image building for NBC and the today show here. And I find it

02:12:16.160 abhorrent. I think Savannah should have said no to it. And I think the executives there should have

02:12:21.200 known better than to take an intimate moment like that and make sure that they had cameras catch it

02:12:26.800 outside of studio one, a just to pump up their image. Cause in the end, it's all about ratings.

02:12:32.320 Um, and put it out to the public, just so, so cynical and reinforces, you know, what we've been

02:12:38.260 reading behind the scenes in the press. And frankly, as I pointed out to you before my own experience,

02:12:43.020 it's not the one big happy family. It's just not, it's a bunch of backstabbing, you know,

02:12:49.380 what's over there who are worried about themselves. And I'm sure there is a lot of now what she wants

02:12:55.860 to come back. What does that mean for Hoda? Who's gotten awfully warm in the seat and for the others

02:13:01.900 who are enjoying being their own queen bees when Savannah has been out. And I include Craig Melvin in

02:13:07.860 that too. I'm sure he's been enjoying being the elder statesman, which he's not, um, while she's

02:13:14.340 been off the set. Um, and then, you know, they, they're sure to release the statement of Hoda without

02:13:18.820 her makeup on doing the hard hug of Savannah. You know, everyone knows Hoda regretted leaving that

02:13:27.680 seat as soon as she did. They wouldn't pay her reported the amount, the amount she wanted because 0.89

02:13:32.540 the today show does not make the kind of money it used to. They're no longer the dominant

02:13:37.320 independent media source, not independent, but media source at all. The way the today show used

02:13:42.820 to be. I mean, they used to be getting like huge, huge five, 6 million every day, more than that.

02:13:48.240 And now they don't, now they don't. And, uh, so they couldn't pay this exorbitant salary demand

02:13:53.220 and she left. She reportedly left in a huff. And you know what happens when you leave a place in a huff,

02:13:58.100 you wind up regretting it, especially when you're somebody who needs to see themselves on TV,

02:14:02.220 Hoda began that little independent, um, I don't know, conversations in cars, which is bombing,

02:14:08.040 bombing. So I'm sure she's loving her time back in the spotlight, but you know, she's got to be

02:14:13.000 seen as the one who's really like the soft place to fall. She's the hugger. She's the one everybody

02:14:18.180 loves. Okay. Let's just say there are questions about whether that's real. And I just thought that

02:14:24.740 was horrible. I think, I really think that I forgive Savannah for it because if she's in a compromised

02:14:30.140 state, I'm sure she didn't, she just kind of went along with whatever they said, but I think that

02:14:34.920 the classy move would have been for NBC to say, let's allow her the privacy she deserves. And we 1.00

02:14:41.400 will have a thanking of the cast and crew behind closed doors, like an actual family would have

02:14:47.740 done. Uh, okay. That'll do it for us today. We are back tomorrow with an update from a remote

02:14:53.940 location, uh, where we are. And thank you to all of you for listening and making this show possible,

02:14:59.140 which is independent, um, today and every day. And tomorrow we will be back with our pals from

02:15:03.960 Turning Point, Andrew Colvatt and Blake Neff. We'll see you then. Thanks for listening to the

02:15:09.300 Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda and no fear.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - March 10, 2026

Iran Timing, Epstein Guard Questions, and ＂WiFi Jammer＂ Evidence in Nancy Guthrie Case, with Fitzgerald, Geddes, and Hamilton ｜ Ep. 1269

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