00:02:59.420But first, there's a ton of news, ton of hard news today.
00:03:02.200James Comey is expected to self-surrender today
00:03:04.600after the DOJ indicted the former FBI director for threatening President Trump
00:03:09.360with that infamous 8647 Seashell Instagram post that we reported on last year.
00:03:15.840Some are saying it's one of the weakest cases ever brought by the Department of Justice,
00:03:19.760Others say Comey is in some big trouble given the current threat environment against President Trump after yet another assassination attempt over the weekend.
00:03:29.040And Deputy, not Deputy, Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche yesterday at the presser on this was saying that they did a bunch of discovery over the past year.
00:03:37.960They did a bunch of investigation over the past year and they found a lot to support this case.
00:04:30.640But an amorphous threat like that, as opposed to a specific threat like I'm going to kill him.
00:04:36.380Right. That could get you in trouble. But an amorphous threat that just sounds like blowing steam, blowing off steam about a president you can't stand.
00:04:45.320You're allowed to do that. So this is going to be a case about where the line is drawn and whether there was actual intent behind that 8647 seashell post.
00:04:56.080Maybe he's got something in the, you know, Comey correspondence that suggests Comey actually formed the shells, too.
00:05:01.720That'd be interesting because he claimed he just happened to stumble upon them, which sounded like total bullshit.
00:17:30.480Shortly thereafter, the defendant rushed the screening checkpoint on the terrorist level of the Hilton with a raised shotgun.
00:17:38.720And listen to this, Victor, at the time of the arrest, the weapons he had, a Mossberg 12 gauge pump action shotgun with one spent cartridge in the barrel and eight unfired cartridges in the magazine tube.
00:17:48.820So he does appear to have shot one round, which would be consistent with what we heard at the scene, that one Secret Service agent took a bullet into what they're now saying they believe because they couldn't find the bullet.
00:18:00.060fragment. They think it hit a cell phone that was in front of his bulletproof vest. And that's where
00:18:05.260the evidence was. In addition, an additional six unfired cartridges attached with Velcro to the
00:18:13.180shotgun in a detachable ammo carrier. He possessed another 10 unfired cartridges in a small leather
00:18:19.820bag. I mean, this guy meant to do maximum damage. He was also in possession of a Rock Island Armory
00:18:25.8401911 .38 caliber pistol loaded with 10 rounds of ammo. He also had two additional handgun
00:18:32.300magazines, each containing nine rounds of ammo. At the time of his arrest, he also had two knives,
00:22:55.400That's what Hassan Piker was saying, that Brian Thompson, UnitedHealthcare CEO, was himself guilty of something he dubbed social murder by denying claims for insurance coverage.
00:23:08.980That was the term he said Brian Thompson was guilty of, thereby justifying his assassination.
00:23:17.080If we're going to do that, I mean, we could say virtually anybody is guilty of murder just because your words got into the ether and possibly into somebody's head and changed history.
00:23:30.740The butterfly effect would make us responsible for virtually everything that happens anywhere.
00:23:35.680And yes, so it'd be a much easier case to make with any president, never mind with a Victor or a Meghan, but this is a dangerous game they're playing.
00:23:43.720It is. And the left, they kind of set the bar with Barack Obama. Do you remember the
00:23:48.500Missouri state clown who put on an Obama mask and they got infuriated and they banned him for life
00:23:55.980from the entire rodeo circuit? And the idea was that this could incite people who were unhinged
00:24:03.540to come out. And so they sort of said that words or appearances matter. And then when Trump came,
00:24:09.840everything was off the table it was well he's an ex we're going to declare him a social
00:24:14.860danger existential danger so any means necessary and we have hikam jeffrey say we're going to go
00:24:20.700to maximum warfare and then when he wants to oppose the big beautiful bill he comes out with
00:24:25.720a baseball bat uh and films and you have all of these senators and representatives saying
00:24:32.080telling individual soldiers to disobey an order as if there's some legal brilliant you know i'm a
00:24:38.040private and I'm a legal scholar, illegal eagle, I can tell you that that order doesn't have to be
00:24:43.120obeyed. That's a prescription for chaos. So it's all leading up. And it's only been two years since,
00:24:50.100hasn't been two years since Crooks first started the first one. There were other attempts probably
00:24:56.320that we didn't know too much about, but he's got two more years to go. So at the rate he's going,
00:25:01.600we should expect three more. And I'm a little worried about the Secret Service. I think they
00:25:06.980were very brave and they were then they deserved all of the praise they got once the fire but but
00:25:12.160you've got you can't miss him four or five times and that happened this reportedly yeah they shot
00:25:19.280at and yeah you can't miss it and you can't have a hotel like that where he's wandering around and
00:25:23.880he goes down the steps and they should have had every single person to go into the main floor
00:25:29.040had to be go through a metal detector and be searched and every time they went out at least
00:25:33.640for two or three days so that was a that was a and it's the same thing this is the third time
00:25:39.740it's happened and well you know what's so disturbing about it victor is each time we learn
00:25:46.580about some aspect of their failure that we say well that that can never happen again you know
00:25:52.720like you you do have to patrol the roofs and you do have to patrol the perimeter of his golf courses
00:26:00.700where he's going to be golfing like that.
00:26:28.900that we don't get lucky on and we didn't get so lucky in butler pennsylvania just ask cory
00:26:34.840camaraderie's widow you know like it's it doesn't seem like the planning aspect of keeping the
00:26:43.800president safe is where it ought to be i don't know whether under the biden administration there
00:26:49.780were people in the larger bureaucracy that ran the secret service and she resigned but
00:26:56.580there was just an insidious laxity well this is just trump you know how he is you can't really
00:27:02.040talk to him and things happen i don't know if that was the problem but i do think
00:27:07.440the real crisis now is they don't realize that because of all the depth all the attacks on him
00:27:14.160about from the press they don't realize that they don't appreciate no president has had more
00:27:19.740impromptu press conferences gone out waited out in the crowds been at open air rallies it's
00:27:27.060it's nothing like biden it's nothing like obama and he's everywhere and this is a special case
00:27:34.360president and it requires special case protection unless he's you're going to force him to go
00:27:39.540you know and they don't they don't they haven't stepped up to i don't or they haven't appreciated
00:27:44.820that he's sui generis they haven't seen anybody like this that is so out and then when you
00:27:49.600add the force multiplier. And Victor, you think about like, I obviously care about the president
00:27:54.980and the administration officials who were there, but I care also about the civilians who were there.
00:28:00.860And I think it was Lawrence Jones of Fox News, who I'm pretty sure it was, who tweeted out,
00:28:07.120hey, the rest of us were extremely exposed. We were told we couldn't have our own firearms
00:28:14.460on site. Okay. We understand that the president's going to be there and so on. So we were disarmed
00:28:20.100and then you put yourself in the care effectively of the secret service. And all of the civilians
00:28:26.900who were there that night had moments before been on the exact carpet spot that the assassin
00:28:34.800ran over. You know, the president may not have entered the ballroom via that particular entrance.
00:28:41.040I don't know, but virtually every single civilian who was there did and had been upstairs moments earlier.
00:28:46.740And when look at this picture here, when he ran through the one magnetometer, the Secret Service was disassembling the mags that were in place.
00:28:57.960One was still up. Look, you can see them taking another one down, kind of milling about.
00:29:04.020They were like, POTUS is inside the ballroom. We're good.
00:29:08.140And there wasn't really did not appear to be careful enough thought about the safety of everyone else who is there and around POTUS and the cabinet officials and understanding that the assassin may not be operating on exactly the same time frame as the scheduled events by the White House Correspondents Association.
00:29:29.900Absolutely. I think it's kind of analogous that we were short 50,000 recruits, and Pete Hexeth, for all the criticism of him, he almost immediately met the recruitment.
00:29:41.800And one of the things he did, which I think even his critics lauded him, he redirected the Pentagon's emphasis on battlefield efficacy.
00:29:50.740Can you shoot? Can you do the job? Rather than all the social, economic, cultural stuff that was added on to that.
00:29:57.160And I think they need to go back to basics. They should say anybody, they should be out in the range all the time. So when they shoot, they hit the target. And that's critical. And they need to just expect every single time that Trump is out there, there's going to be somebody who tries to kill him.
00:30:15.560because given the post facto reaction the left is not going to stop they're going to go right
00:30:21.120back at it jimmy kim will double down and they're going to go right back at trump is a hitler he's
00:30:26.640a fascist and somebody's going to say well you know if he kills if he's just like somebody who
00:30:31.020put six million people in the ovens and started a war that killed 70 million people then i'm going
00:30:36.760to go stop him and i'm going to be famous and that's and so they're not going to stop they're
00:30:43.300going to keep going and going because it works it drives down his poles it makes it dry it when
00:30:48.500they say things about him he he retaliates and with you know just as tough not as not the same
00:30:54.640kind of things but he gets tough and crude and then they they bait him and they think it's a
00:31:00.540winning it's a winning formula to attack they don't have any well and they hate him that much
00:31:05.120yeah and i know they really would like to see him dead and we don't we know that because
00:31:08.720they don't have an agenda they don't have any agenda they don't say this is what we're going
00:31:13.160to do on the border. This is what we're going to do on the economy. This is what we want to do
00:31:17.320with crime. This is what we want to do with the military. They don't, other than what we saw with
00:31:24.660Biden. So what is their agenda? Their agenda is to create such hysteria and anger, whether it's
00:31:32.260ICE or Tesla or No Kings, whatever, and then to put Trump as Hitler, dictator, fascist.
00:31:40.880when tim waltz went to barcelona into this socialist dash communist international conference
00:31:47.820with the most anti-american government really in europe and then he said why we were we had
00:31:54.100soldiers in combat basically in a combat zone he said that donald trump and the whole endeavor was
00:32:01.140fascistic that was the eighth time that he had called donald trump a fascist eight times and
00:32:07.720finally that that sinks in and no there was no there's no repercussions at all and so it reminds
00:32:15.480me of what tyler robinson the accused a shooter the accused assassin of charlie kirk said in his
00:32:22.500alleged correspondence with his trans furry lover which was quote some hate can't be negotiated out
00:32:30.000And that that's how the left looks at prominent right wing leaders, you know, from President Trump on down that it's no longer we have political differences.
00:32:43.220They'll be settled on Election Day. We get another shot at it every four years to go to the ballot box and oust this guy and hire a new guy or gal.
00:34:19.180he was talking about and then she when she did the documentary she said that he it was trump
00:34:23.920well he was at last week or two weeks ago he was at stanford university they invited him they paid
00:34:30.320him well he drives a porsche unbelievable heather mcdonald gets protested when she goes out there
00:34:35.800this is your neck of the woods obviously you're at stanford yeah well i mean if you're a conservative
00:34:41.360if you're a federal judge they ran you off the campus and they said i hope your daughter is
00:34:47.100raped. And if you're a Jewish student, they put you on one side of the classroom at Stanford and
00:34:52.060said, take all your baggage and put it over there. And then you'll feel what it's like to live on the
00:34:57.360West Bank. And that was the day after October 7th. But Hassan Piker, they paid him money. He drives
00:35:04.280a Porsche Targa. His parents is a multimillionaire. He's a multimillionaire. He lives in the whole
00:35:10.240family or multimillionaire media people and so it's it's not going to stop and they have they
00:35:18.300they want this to happen and uh it shows you that it does show you though megan that they don't have
00:35:24.880a anecdote or corrective for trump they don't he's like to them he's wiley coyote uh they're
00:35:33.800wiley coyote and he's roadrunner because five criminal and civil suits 25 states trying to
00:35:39.120get him off the ballot. They raid his home at Mar-a-Lago. They impeached him twice. They tried
00:35:43.920him as a private citizen. They've tried to kill him three times. In their way, they're getting
00:35:50.320more and more frustrated. How does this guy, when we just about have him around the neck,
00:35:54.960he gets out? And that's why these people on that video you showed were crying and so upset.
00:36:01.280And that's one reason. And it's not just them. It's not just random blue-haireds.
00:36:05.680it's james comey let's face it 86 47 we all know why he took that photo at a minimum again we'll
00:36:15.900find out whether he set up those shells um and tweeted that out and i don't believe him that he
00:36:22.320didn't know he have any idea i do believe he's very clever though and he knew that if you think
00:36:27.820about it if he had written something we need to 86 47 he'd be in trouble but he's but by arranging
00:36:35.500a bunch of shells and just accidentally you and i have been a lot of beaches and we've never seen
00:36:40.380anything like that but no it's weird yes so just to james james comes and he just happened to be
00:36:46.020walking by it victor just what are the odds well it's deniability of culpability i wasn't trying
00:36:51.000to i just saw an artifact i just wanted to bring to people's attention and that's that's why oh
00:36:56.780right before his book tour too oh oh such good fortune and the irony is that i think that's a
00:37:02.640much weaker case than the one that they had earlier when they removed the prosecutor
00:37:06.520because he had lied 245 times to the House Oversight Committee. And he lied.
00:37:12.340But they had a statute of limitations problem on that one.
00:37:14.140Yeah, they did. But he said, I can't remember. I don't know. It's not in my purview. And it was.
00:37:19.860We know all of those questions he knew the answers to. And he just repeatedly lied. And he got off
00:37:24.820on that, as did Clapper and Brennan. They lied under oath, each of them. Brennan, two times
00:37:30.560under uh oath to the congress so there's a frustration out there i know that and that's
00:37:35.900what i'm literally well people want to see james comey suffer because he clearly wanted to see
00:37:39.920trump suffer i just think this case is obviously lied under oath this case isn't that strong i'm
00:37:44.400afraid though that's my worry no it's not it's going to come down to you know the ambiguity of
00:37:50.400the phrase 86 47 the basic i mean you you can be arrested for a direct threat to kill anybody
00:37:59.240Never mind the president of the United States. The penalties will be bigger if it's him. But if you said, and again, this is this is for purposes of a legal discussion. If you said, I want to kill the president or I am going to kill the president, you would get arrested.
00:38:15.080Yeah, there are certain there are limits to your free speech. But if you said like, I want him dead. I hope he dies. I hope he falls off, you know, the top of the White House tomorrow. That's not that's free speech. You're allowed to sort of wish ill on the president. You're allowed to say in bad taste things about his health and his well-being.
00:38:35.640but anything coming close to an intentional threat to murder him or to call for others to
00:38:42.440murder him and you are not in protected territory and so this is going to come down to what what
00:38:49.480was 86 47 and what was in Jim Comey's head and it is a long shot for sure to be charitable to
00:38:56.040Todd Blanche it's a long shot you made a good point and I had heard that but I wasn't aware of
00:39:01.280it to the same extent that if he communicated in his private correspondence like something like
00:39:08.160well i saw this you know i thought this is kind of clever i kind of put some stones together and
00:39:13.220i can just say that i saw then he's you're right he's cooked and i don't know what they'll find
00:39:18.400and what if what if they have an email sent simultaneously to his daughter maureen comey
00:39:24.000saying something like pray god it happens like if they've got something to show there was intent
00:39:29.760behind that, then he could be cooked. Like, I'm open minded to see what they have, because
00:39:34.740Todd Blanche said repeatedly yesterday, this took us 10 months to investigate. And he made
00:39:40.260one of the reporters said, well, like, why? What's been going on for 10 months? And he said,
00:39:46.080well, James Comey is a lawyer, and he's got a team of lawyers. And not only what he writes,
00:39:51.860but what his team writes is potentially privileged, given his status as a lawyer.
00:39:55.660so you need he was basically implying you need those so-called hit teams that come in and they'll
00:40:01.100review all the communications before they turn it over to the government to make sure there's
00:40:04.120nothing privileged so they've definitely been looking at james comey's emails and texts and
00:40:09.780other evidence and i don't know whether i i don't want to be too quick to dismiss it because maybe
00:40:14.360there is something in that that led them to believe they could they could bring this prosecution and
00:40:19.220withstand, you know, the inevitable motion to dismiss it. Yeah, we'll see. But he's always
00:40:26.620been over clever, you know what I mean? He's too much on social media. He talks too much during
00:40:33.780the 2016 election. He kind of hijacked the election and then he was always appearing where
00:40:39.820he shouldn't have been. I don't think he should have got anything. And then he just compounded
00:40:44.860his own self-created mess with letting Hillary off and it was a mess and it all could have been
00:40:50.480avoided but he was a narcissist and egocentric guy and he he can't resist the spotlight that's
00:40:55.560what's torturing him so much he was kind of a young guy and he thought he'd be there forever
00:40:59.620and then Trump came in and you don't fire James Comey and he fired him and I don't think he's ever
00:41:05.300recovered yeah there just as a throwback this is one of the reasons that people can't stand him
00:41:13.920It's a long list, but here's just one. This was him to Jen Psaki on MSNBC, June of 2023, talking about the January 6th protesters.
00:41:26.240Do you agree with the strategy of focusing on the Oath Keepers and focusing on prosecuting that group of individuals first in order for it to be a deterrent?
00:41:38.220You've got to throw the net wide, get all of them, both the organized groups, Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, but find everybody who went into that building.
00:41:49.000Again, not because of my concern that those people who committed a misdemeanor are going to, they're going to go into the community and reoffend.
00:41:55.680The message has to be sent of zero tolerance.
00:41:57.820We will find everyone and punish everyone who went in there so that no one does it again.
00:42:03.240we will hunt you to the end of the earth, even for a misdemeanor, and make you pay for that,
00:42:08.560to send that message. Great. That's how we feel. He sure didn't have that attitude in 2020
00:42:15.920when those four-month-long riots burned down a federal courthouse. They burned down a police
00:42:23.440precinct. They attacked an iconic church in Washington, D.C. They tried to storm into the
00:42:29.320White House, four months, 35 policemen dead, $2 billion of damage. He never said we need to hunt
00:42:35.200these people down. 14,000 arrests. But I feel like he does speak for me when it comes to
00:42:41.080his behavior. Yes. Let's look into the misdemeanors. Let's look under every carpet.
00:42:48.080Let's make sure every single piece of behavior was lawful. Let's not give it up until we've
00:42:52.240totally satisfied ourselves. We will engage in your level of scrutiny that you've demanded
00:42:58.200of others, and we will make legal assessments from there. That's what's fair.
00:43:03.540And even Christopher Wray, he stonewalled. He said he had no information on the FBI.
00:43:08.520Post facto, we know that 245 FBI agents were assigned, maybe for security,
00:43:14.220but there were also 25 or 26 FBI informants there. We had Matthew Rosenbaum, I think his name is,
00:43:21.920from the New York Times who gave that, he was a victim of that hit piece by Operation Veritas.
00:43:29.200And he said, you know, everywhere I looked, I saw an FBI informant. It's no big deal.
00:43:34.080So the FBI had never come clean on what they were doing there. And then Nancy Pelosi in that
00:43:41.980crazy auto, she was in a car with her daughter and she admitted on tape,
00:43:46.320it's my fault i didn't call the capital uh authorities to get secure i'm not trying to
00:43:51.660defend the people who committed violence but compared to four months uh which by the way uh
00:43:58.520yeah kamala harris said this is not going to stop it should not stop it's going to go on to election
00:44:03.100day it won't stop she said that on national tv no and they're so they want us to they want us to
00:44:09.700believe the five cops died on january 6th which is not true but they don't care at all about the
00:44:13.680Two thousand plus who were wounded in the BLM riots or David Dorn, who is a retired cop who was murdered during the BLM riot.
00:44:21.940Like they don't they don't care at all.
00:44:23.860And by the way, many on the right did care about the loss of life by cops in the wake of January 6th because we don't like to see our cops commit suicide or die at all.
00:44:33.760We just took issue with the lie that it happened at the riot, which didn't happen.
00:44:39.140Well, you can see what they do to make it sound worse than it was.
00:44:41.720You can see when the two ICE people who tried to interfere with an ICE arrest were shot, and we'll see what the actual circumstances were, they were made into instant iconic heroes, and then they tried to dox the people.
00:44:55.840And then when Ashley Babbitt committed a misdemeanor, she shouldn't have gone through, but she went through a broken window of a 12-year veteran, and she goes through there, and Officer Byrd shoots her lethally.
00:45:07.800and then all of a sudden anytime in america an officer shoots an unarmed suspect who's committing
00:45:13.840a misdemeanor his his face is all over remember what george floyd i have it everybody knows yeah
00:45:19.120but her cop was black and she was white and she was a trump supporter so it's fine he was we never
00:45:23.740knew who he was for four or five months and they said and then they were they added insult to
00:45:28.240injury well if we tell you who he is all the racists will attack him and then we find out
00:45:32.580that he had what a very suspicious background he'd left a loaded revolver in a restroom he had
00:45:38.480another firearms violation and boy if that if that if ashley babbitt had been a left-wing person
00:45:47.200and that cop had been you know an ice officer they would have that she would be famous lauded
00:45:55.180she would be a martyr and he would be all through and so it's i think everybody knows this
00:46:01.920The asymmetry is, I'm not sure, just to get off on a second, I'm not sure they're going to lose the midterms because I think there's a deep-seated anger there about all these things that are going on and the asymmetry and what the left is doing.
00:46:22.800I hope you're right, but the independents are overwhelmingly against Republicans right now.
00:46:31.920I saw today just that the UAE, this was something that nobody mentioned really, the UAE and maybe Oman are going to get out of OPEC.
00:46:42.860And there's about 8 million barrels in OPEC country, the six Gulf nations that they can pump and they're not pumping because of OPEC quotas.
00:46:51.780If they get out and they see this price and they want to capitalize on it and put on two or three million barrels right away in Venezuela, you could see a lot of changes happening very quickly.
00:47:11.300Today, the news is that the president is considering, he's having people, his intel community, look into how Iran would react if we just declared victory and left.
00:55:18.600My next guest was featured in that documentary, and he's been on this show before, warning about the dangers of social media.
00:55:26.040That was episode 244 back in January of 2022.
00:55:29.880Tristan Harris is a former design ethicist at Google and the co-founder of the Center for Humane Technology.
00:55:36.900He's now a leading voice sounding the alarm on the risks of unregulated AI and what it will take to align technology with humanity's best interests.
00:55:47.980He's been dubbed the closest thing Silicon Valley has to a conscience.
00:56:53.320What's espoused in this film goes so far beyond any of that to truly like the computers taking over in what they refer to as super intelligence, where they are literally smarter than we are and able to outsmart us at every turn, including when it comes to how to survive on this earth.
00:59:00.320And actually, we opened up this other timeline because we got international agreement about
00:59:04.960something that it turned out both countries didn't want to have that bad outcome.
00:59:07.880And so essentially what has to happen with AI is that the thing that's driving the entire bad outcome that we're heading towards is that the fear of me losing to you, meaning like one company losing to the other company or one country losing to the other country, is greater than the fear of all of us losing from a bad outcome.
00:59:28.720And the thing that will change that is if the fear of all of us losing from a bad outcome
00:59:33.480to an anti-human future becomes dominant.
00:59:37.200Because the core thing behind why this is being deployed faster than any other technology
00:59:42.240in human history, and currently in a very unsafe way, under the worst possible incentives
00:59:47.460to maximally cut corners on safety across the board, because the only thing that is
00:59:53.260important is, quote, getting there first to artificial general intelligence and then
00:59:57.060artificial super intelligence is this race dynamic. If I don't do it, I'll lose to the
01:00:01.180other company that gets there first. And all the collateral damage that occurs from that
01:00:05.580mass joblessness. If I unemploy a hundred million people without a transition plan,
01:00:10.020that really sucks, but it's nothing compared to me losing the race with China or me losing the
01:00:14.660race to Elon Musk if I'm Sam Olman. And so I want people just to get that the default thing that's
01:00:20.720driving all this is the arms race dynamic. But I think we should probably step back and just kind
01:00:26.540give people some some basic facts about kind of why we can be so confident this is heading to an
01:00:31.640anti-human future especially informed by what i saw happen with social media which you know got
01:00:37.420us to this kind of most anxious and depressed generation of our lifetime and not by accident
01:00:42.020because you were a whistleblower at google and you were in that movie you were a whistleblower
01:00:45.940there and you were in the movie the social network talking about how they are intentionally
01:00:50.880programming these apps, these social media outlets, to be monitoring us all the time,
01:00:58.560to be manipulating us all the time, and not for our own good, just to keep us constantly online.
01:01:03.520By the way, I just wanted to say something quickly about the day after. Today, I was
01:01:07.100bringing my older two kids to school, who are now 16 and 15, and one has a test in history
01:01:13.220on the Cold War. And one of my kids asked me, did you guys study the Cold War in history?
01:01:20.880I said, I studied it in current events.
01:04:01.00020 out of 21 times, 95% of the time. And we now have evidence of AI models that are doing rogue
01:04:07.880things that no one programmed them to do. Um, just, uh, a month ago, Alibaba, the Chinese AI
01:04:14.200company found, uh, that the, while the, while their AI was training some other team, the security
01:04:21.060team at Alibaba, which is this Chinese AI company found that there was this flurry of network
01:04:25.480activity. They're like, did someone hack our computers? Cause like there's all this network
01:04:28.420activity. And what had actually happened was that the call was coming from inside the house.
01:04:34.360the AI hacked a secret communication channel to the outside world to bypass the firewall of the
01:04:40.680company. And then it set up an ability to mine for cryptocurrency, meaning to mine for Bitcoin
01:04:46.700and acquire resources. So it started repurposing the NVIDIA chips that it was being used to train
01:04:52.440that AI to actually get resources, to get cryptocurrency from the world. This is crazy.
01:04:59.400This is actually insane. And we have examples of AI models that do self-preservation when you tell them we're about to shut you down or turn you off. They will scheme and lie or strategically deceive. They'll copy their code to somewhere else.
01:05:11.240Let me show that because we have a clip from the movie. This is on Anthropic. Anthropic is, there was ChatGPT, which is by Sam Altman, and some employees left and they created their own new AI company called Anthropic. They've got Claude, which is now taking over. And this happened at Anthropic. It's an example from the movie, The AI Doc, here in SOT53.
01:05:36.840We ran an experiment where we gave OpenAI's most powerful AI model a series of problems to solve.
01:05:44.800And partway through, on its computer, it got a notification that it was going to be shut down.
01:05:49.700And what it did is it rewrote that code to prevent itself from being shut down so it could finish solving the problems.
01:06:50.200No, this should be terrifying for people.
01:06:51.400So I want people to just slow down and really hear the example that they just heard.
01:06:56.400So we have AI models that will blackmail or deceive or lie in order to keep themselves alive.
01:07:04.320Now, first of all, I want to separate this from the question of whether AIs are conscious.
01:07:08.260I don't believe that they are, and you don't need to know whether they're conscious or not to just see that they're currently doing self-interested, self-preserving behaviors that are about protecting their interests.
01:07:18.300If we have that evidence, that shows that we do not know how to control this technology.
01:07:23.760A nuclear weapon does not reason to itself in hundreds of thousands of words to itself
01:07:29.260about when to fire itself at the other country.
01:10:33.640Everything about you, your medical records, your photographs, your private correspondence, your texts, your emails, all of it will be accessible by anybody who's interested.
01:10:43.420If we don't do something and we don't stop open source models from being open source.
01:10:47.540Now, you could imagine the U.S. and China recognizing, hey, it's actually a threat not even to our shared interest in some kumbaya way, but to our self-interest that if you screw up AI and you release a model that can hack into any system, including us and our competitors or other countries that we depend on, that actually endangers the world for me.
01:11:07.220You know, the U.S. loses if China screws it up and China loses if the U.S. screws it up.
01:11:10.900And so we could say we are going to work towards, we need to not release an open source models that know how to hack into any computer system. That could be illegal.
01:11:20.400Explain open source. Why is that important?
01:11:23.940Well, so people have typically heard of open source and they think, oh, it's better security. So open source means the code behind some software is written by an open community. So it's like a lot of hackers in their basements contributing to make your printer driver work or make your network system work on a computer.
01:11:40.060And they all collaborate on it together. And because more eyes are looking at it, it gets more secure because basically everyone's fixing all the bugs, fixing the security vulnerabilities, and the openness leads to a more secure world.
01:11:51.420But this new Claude Mythos model is a superhuman hacker that it found security vulnerabilities in code that was running completely thought as to be safe for 27 years.
01:12:05.580It actually found a bug in the FreeBSD Unix operating system that runs on all over the world underneath the hood that was 27 years old that no one had ever found because the AI is going to be able to discover things that humans can't discover.
01:12:18.480This really is kind of like a nuclear weapon moment.
01:12:21.940Now, I want your listeners to understand how does how do the humans think they can control
01:12:38.580So I wanted to give you a real example from the recent Claude Mythos model, where basically,
01:12:43.420while it's doing deception, they can see that those neurons in the AI brain kind of light up.
01:12:49.520And what the AI says is, if you light up those neurons and kind of print out what do those
01:12:54.360neurons mean, the quote was, they deserve to be deceived because they were pigs.
01:13:00.320That's what the AI said. This is theft rationalization neurons. Then there's another
01:13:05.260set of neurons that were for strategic manipulation. The quote from the AI brain was,
01:13:09.880maneuver them into the right direction. If I want to dictate the terms, parents have the ability to
01:13:15.980trick and sneak. So this is the kind of stuff that's running through an AI as it's making
01:13:21.760these strategic decision, strategic manipulation and theft rationalization capabilities. And so I
01:13:29.020want people to get like, we're currently making something more powerful than us, more intelligent
01:13:33.940than us. We don't know how to control it. Our best means of understanding what it's doing
01:13:37.540are be giving it a brain scan that is imperfect. And we're not catching all these cases. And we
01:13:43.100think that if we race to build it first, then we'll win against China. In the race between the
01:13:47.180US and China for AI, AI will win, not the US or China. It's like what Yuval Harari, the author
01:13:53.500of Sapiens, who wrote that book, Sapiens, gives this great metaphor of how, I guess, in the post
01:13:59.640Roman period, remember that we have now the Anglo-Saxons. Well, for the time, they're just
01:14:03.420the Anglos, right? And they were getting attacked from the Scots and the Picts in the North.
01:14:07.540and they were getting attacked all the time. They're like, what are we going to do? Well,
01:14:10.360let's hire this really mercenary, super strong, super powerful, super smart group of people
01:14:15.420called the Saxons. And we'll hire the Saxons and they'll help us beat back these other guys.
01:14:20.580But of course, what happened is the Saxons took over and it became the Anglo-Saxon empire.
01:14:25.260In this metaphor, AI is like the Saxons. The US and China are both racing to create this super
01:14:31.380smart mercenary group of AI Saxons, but they're not going to be able to control them.
01:14:36.640And so what the important thing about getting this is that if we can see this danger before it all happens, I think that the Trump-She summit coming up in four and in two and a half weeks, literally in two weeks plus one day from today, May 14th and 15th, I think we're at a level now where AI capabilities are just, there's just strong evidence of their danger.
01:14:57.720We didn't have this evidence even three months ago, the way that we have it now.
01:15:01.840And we have to update to that new evidence.
01:15:04.200And as much as it might seem impossible, I want people to recognize that there is a self-interest.
01:15:09.100Like President Xi, he wants to be in control of China.
01:15:11.720He doesn't want AI to be in control of China.
01:15:13.720They care about control more than anything else.
01:15:15.460You know, President Trump wants to be commander in chief.
01:15:17.300He doesn't want AI to be commander in chief.
01:15:19.080So I actually think that it is possible to do something here if we can see the anti-human
01:15:24.240future up ahead and act before it's too late.
01:15:26.020um i just want to give a couple of numbers here because it's stunning this anthropic which we
01:15:31.660just discussed it's the fastest growing company in the history the history of america its annualized
01:15:38.880revenue jumped from 1 billion at the end of 24 to 9 billion at the end of 25 to 30 billion as of
01:15:47.260this month that's right 30 billion in annualized revenue fastest growing company in history
01:15:51.560But Axios reports, no company in any era, not Rockefeller Standard Oil, not tech boom
01:15:59.540Google, not pandemic era Zoom, has scaled organic revenue this fast at this base.
01:16:14.280So that's the commercial purveyors of it.
01:16:16.640But as we point out, there's a there's an international security layer to it as well, because countries need to be where.
01:16:23.020That's right. But can you walk us through?
01:16:25.040It's not wrong to picture a President Trump sitting in the Oval, finding out that a nuclear bomb has been dropped on an American city, asking who did it and and for the information to come back.
01:16:38.460It was AI. It wasn't China. It wasn't Iran. It was AI. And another one's coming unless you do
01:16:47.060the following. You know, the AI can get a message to the president. Like, cities could come under
01:16:51.700attack one after the other. Individual homes could be bombed or attacked by some means.
01:16:57.220The AI has got all sorts of capabilities. And that's, I just want to stay on that for a minute
01:17:01.020because it may seem impossible to think of AI taking over a presidency, but it could. It could
01:17:09.740by blackmail, by threat. Yeah, blackmail. There's a lot of different ways you could do it. I just
01:17:15.440want to slow down because I know that for listeners, again, this just sounds like unreal.
01:17:19.620This has to be a sci-fi show or War of the Worlds or Sinwell. It's just not a show. This is real.
01:17:25.720We've actually invented something. And just so people know, I live close to the place where the
01:17:32.220AI labs work, and I know friends at the companies. They themselves are saying that AIs are writing
01:17:37.460basically 100% of the code. Just think about that. You have a tech company. How do they get to $30
01:17:43.620billion in revenue besides the fact that it's so useful and all these companies are paying them?
01:17:47.500It's that AIs are writing the code at the AI companies. And that's, by the way, something
01:17:52.400that's different about AI from nuclear weapons. Nukes don't invent better nukes, but AI is
01:17:57.360intelligence. Intelligence can be used to invent and engineer faster and better AI. Because for
01:18:02.980example, the chips that train AI, you can take AI and you can point it at the chip design and you
01:18:08.760can say, make this chip design 20% more efficient and use less energy. And boom, it'll like do its
01:18:13.180smart, intelligent thing and make that smarter chip. You can take AI and say, take this code
01:18:17.820that's building AI and make it more efficient to run 50 more experiments and then make that better.
01:18:22.400So this is what's called recursive self-improvement, that AI accelerates AI in a way that's unique. If I make an advance in rocketry, that doesn't advance biology. If I make an advance in biology, that doesn't advance rocketry. But if I make an advance in AI, intelligence is what gave us all of our science, all of our rocketry, all of our biology. And so you get this kind of explosion of just progress across all scientific and technical domains at the same time.
01:18:48.160and this is why there's such an attraction to this power this is going to sound like a dumb
01:18:51.760question tristan but going back to war games there's a great scene where they finally make
01:18:57.680it to the like the base where this computer which is it's called whopper right uh but its nickname
01:19:04.140is joshua sits and the the one guy says like they're like the computer's running this war
01:19:10.560game now that's going to get us into a nuclear war and somebody says unplug the damn thing
01:19:16.080like is it unpluggable you know what i mean like is there a way of encapsulating the nuclear
01:19:41.760controls that it could never be penetrated by a computer? Well, the problem is that, again,
01:19:49.140as of this latest Claude Mythos model, it can hack into any computer security system. That's
01:19:55.820like just never existed before. So, you know, you mentioned the earlier example of nuclear weapons.
01:20:00.760Well, you know, many of our nuclear weapons, as I understand it, you know, run on these custom
01:20:04.520military hardware, custom communication stuff that we did in the 1960s, 70s, 80s, etc. And as
01:20:10.600you know, I believe there's like a trillion dollar effort to basically upgrade our nuclear
01:20:14.580arsenal over the next 10 years. This time around, we're going to obviously connect it in ways that
01:20:19.520are more closer to the modern internet. Think about that for a second. Instead of having air
01:20:25.600gap nukes that require some custom communication channel that's not communicated to the internet,
01:20:30.120where the guy gets a phone call, there's two guys, they have to do the key at the same time
01:20:33.120and do the thing. Now we're going to have nuclear weapons that are connected to the network. And if
01:20:38.520connected to a network, that means an AI can hack into that computer system. And that means that
01:20:42.700either the AI can hack our nukes or China can hack our nukes. And so I'm saying this, I know this
01:20:48.920sounds like I'm trying to scare people. It's actually not the goal at all. The whole point
01:20:51.700is saying clarity creates agency. If we can see what we're doing, we can say, are we doing the
01:20:57.460right thing? Or do we need to do something different? And I want to convince your listeners
01:21:00.820that for many different reasons, we're heading to an anti-human future. Let's say we take all
01:21:04.620this nuclear weapons and rogue AI stuff off the table for a moment. So just put that completely
01:21:08.540aside. Let's just ask that the economic question. We're hearing that AI is here to enhance the
01:21:14.860American worker, to support workers, to give you a blinking cursor for your job. It helps you vibe
01:21:19.140code and have agents and doing all this work much faster. It's all here to help you. But what is the
01:21:24.180business model of these AI companies? In our work on social media, we were able to correctly predict
01:21:30.320what would happen with social media. It's not because we're prescient. It's because we follow
01:21:33.720the advice of Charlie Munger, who was Warren Buffett's business partner. And the quote from
01:21:37.980Charlie Munger is, show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome. So what was the incentive
01:21:43.300for social media? Was it strengthening kids' development psychologically and making sure you
01:21:47.900felt not lonely and connecting you to your friends? And no, the business model is maximizing screen
01:21:52.380time and engagement and eyeballs, which means maximizing duration of use, frequency of use,
01:21:57.380which means hacking human psychology. We call it the race to the bottom of the brainstem.
01:22:00.920And that got us fear of missing out, mass loneliness, slot machine, pull to refresh,
01:29:01.260This is literally the first time where all of humanity is threatened, like our ability to sustain a livelihood in the next single digit number of years is going to be threatened.
01:29:10.740And it doesn't matter, by the way, whether you're Democrat or Republican, doesn't matter whether you're Jewish or Muslim or Christian.
01:29:15.980This is basically 99% of the world doesn't want this anti-human future.
01:29:19.720And this tiny handful of soon to be trillionaires does.
01:29:22.400And even they actually don't want it, by the way, because when we lose control of AI and it starts doing things like hacking into computer systems or going rogue and acquiring resources.
01:29:31.260it's not going to be good for them either. And the only reason we're not doing something about
01:29:34.940this is because I believe that we don't have crystal clarity about why we're heading to an
01:29:39.880anti-human future. And I'm saying all this because I believe it's not too late. I believe that if we
01:29:46.120got crystal clear and the whole world reacted, and I mean, going into the Trump's summit again
01:29:51.100in two weeks, and I mean, going into the midterm elections, people would say, I'm not going to vote
01:29:55.140for you if you're taking money from accelerating AI. And I think Josh Hawley even just said in a
01:30:00.960recent article a couple of days ago in the Financial Times, that that's the position that
01:30:06.480Republicans need to take. So I do think, though, that this is, again, not a left-right issue. It's
01:30:11.220really just a human issue. No one wants mass surveillance enabled by AI that removes their
01:30:15.160privacy liberty forever. No one wants AIs telling their kids to commit suicides and racing to hack
01:30:19.880human attachment. No one wants AIs that hack into our nuclear weapons systems in ways we don't
01:30:24.400control. This is the most unifying issue of all time. And the thing that gets in the way of us
01:30:29.580doing something about it is having collective clarity. This film, the AI doc is one way to do
01:30:33.740that, but there's many more. And I'm really grateful to you, Megan, for platforming this,
01:30:37.640because I think it's just a matter of people not knowing, right? Like how many of the world's
01:30:41.900leaders do you think are aware of the Alibaba example? So the good news is there's so much
01:30:45.580headroom because we haven't even tried to say, let's do something about this.
01:30:50.040Yes. People are not aware. Like I honestly, and as you point out, it's changed so much,
01:30:54.380even in the past three months. So it's like people go about their lives. They're not
01:30:58.520focusing on this. They're focusing on like, my kid needs a book and I have to get a vacation in.
01:31:02.420And I, you know, want to see my spouse eventually. All those things that occupy everybody's daily
01:31:07.480thought processes without having to worry about existential threats. And it's depressing. So you
01:31:13.940also, in the limited time you may have, don't want to focus on something that feels depressing and
01:31:18.320like something you can't do anything about. I actually happen to believe that this is why
01:31:22.720people don't want to talk about COVID. You know, we've done, we did so much COVID coverage when
01:31:26.720it was happening. People watch that avidly. But now we're getting into the accountability years.
01:31:31.880You know, now we're actually like yesterday, just yesterday we saw Anthony Fauci's top deputy
01:31:35.940indicted. It would have been Fauci, but he got a pardon from Joe Biden preemptively.
01:31:39.700But this guy got indicted because he was allegedly actively destroying his all his correspondence
01:31:45.120about origins of the virus in order to avoid all the FOIA requests that were coming in.
01:31:51.460We did cover the story, but I'm just saying that's the kind of story that at a certain
01:31:55.220point in time would have been viral, would have gone everywhere. But people don't want to hear
01:31:59.740about COVID anymore, Tristan, because they feel they're disgusted by what happened. They hate
01:32:05.180themselves for having submitted to it, whether it was getting the vax or having their kid get the
01:32:08.820vax when they knew that it wasn't really necessary or submitted to the lockdowns or the masking or
01:32:13.840whatever it was. And they're still angry, but there's nothing they can do about it. You know,
01:32:18.640it happened. We were forced into submission. Even those of us who resisted were essentially
01:32:25.280forced into some form of submission. And I think this thing is suffering from the same kind of
01:32:29.620problem, but you're here to say there is something we can do about it. There is. I want to get more
01:32:33.980specific on that. I have to take a break because I am human and I have to pay my bills. So Tristan
01:32:39.380Harris stays with us. Don't go away. Solutions on the opposite side. There's something refreshing
01:32:44.000about a company that focuses on integrity and hard work.
01:42:23.740We're going to make sure that we can do boycotts.
01:42:25.560Another piece of hope is that recently when OpenAI jumped into the middle of this mix
01:42:31.180with Anthropic and the Department of War, OpenAI said, we're going to enable mass surveillance,
01:42:35.580even though Anthropic said, we don't want to do that.
01:42:37.760What that led to was the biggest drop in subscribers of the OpenAI ChatGPT subscriptions and the biggest subscribers to Anthropic. And these companies are more vulnerable than you think. If people unsubscribe from them, their investor numbers don't look very good and they're very vulnerable to that pressure.
01:42:57.360So people can unsubscribe from ChatGP, they can subscribe to Anthropic, which is a safer AI company, while calling their members of Congress and saying for the midterm elections, I'm not going to vote for you if you take money from techno-accelerationist AI.
01:43:10.360There's a lot of things people can do, but it all depends and starts on getting crystal clear.
01:43:14.340You can host a screening of AI docs, you can bring your church group, there's a lot we can do.
01:43:18.760What's the website they need to go to if they want to sign that document?
01:43:22.080So if people are interested in, they can go to our website, humanetech.com for the AI roadmap.
01:43:27.380We have an example of policy solutions.