The Megyn Kelly Show - Janice Dean on Cuomo, Ailes and Friendship

00:00:00.000 Your business doesn't move in a straight line.

00:00:02.800 Some days bring growth, others bring challenges.

00:00:05.940 But what if you or a partner needs to step away?

00:00:08.820 When the unexpected happens, count on Canada Life's flexible life and health insurance

00:00:13.680 to help your business keep working, even when you can't.

00:00:17.020 Don't let life's challenges stand in the way of your success.

00:00:20.460 Protect what you've built today.

00:00:22.500 Visit canadalife.com slash business protection to learn more.

00:00:26.280 Canada Life. Insurance. Investments. Advice.

00:00:31.000 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:41.620 Hey everybody, it's Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.320 Today, Janice Dean, meteorologist at Fox News and one of my best and closest friends in the world.

00:00:53.760 She's an amazing person, and though she be, but the meteorologist, she is fierce.

00:00:59.440 She is taking on New York State Governor Andrew Cuomo in a big way, and she's really the only one

00:01:06.820 trying to hold this guy to account for his disastrous order that nursing homes in this state

00:01:12.240 take on COVID-positive patients.

00:01:15.520 After that, over 6,000 people died in the New York State nursing homes, and sadly, Janice's in-laws were two of them.

00:01:23.020 We have a long history, she and I.

00:01:25.440 We're going to talk about COVID, Cuomo, the media, our time together at Fox.

00:01:31.120 And for the first time, she and I will get the chance to talk publicly about the fall of Roger Ailes,

00:01:37.200 which it's a discussion I've been long waiting to have with her in this kind of forum.

00:01:45.200 So I hope you'll listen and appreciate the moment you were about to have, the, I don't know,

00:01:55.620 the profound experience I just had with her.

00:01:58.180 I hope you enjoy it.

00:01:59.900 But first, before we get to that, let's get you fired up for what's about to come.

00:02:05.840 Do you have your Black Rifle Coffee ready?

00:02:07.580 I hope you do, because it makes everything more enjoyable.

00:02:10.860 That's what Evan Hafer says.

00:02:11.880 He started it.

00:02:12.600 He's the CEO, and he started it after over 20 years in the U.S. Army as an infantryman,

00:02:17.500 special forces soldier, and a CIA contractor.

00:02:20.240 Evan founded Black Rifle Coffee Company in 2014, along with his bud, Army Ranger Matt Best,

00:02:25.500 as the combination of two passions, developing premium, fresh roasted coffee

00:02:30.620 and honoring and supporting those who serve on the front lines.

00:02:35.100 Black Rifle Coffee Company has donated over 45,000 pounds of coffee,

00:02:39.120 or over 1 million cups of coffee, to soldiers deployed overseas

00:02:42.160 and others doing good, like law enforcement cops and wildland firefighters on the West Coast

00:02:48.180 and medical workers during the COVID-19 response, just in 2020 alone.

00:02:53.540 For every coffee purchase you make throughout November, Black Rifle Coffee will send a bag

00:02:58.160 of its limited edition holiday rose to a service member currently deployed overseas

00:03:02.140 to be delivered by Christmas morning.

00:03:04.580 Isn't that nice?

00:03:05.120 You can give a Christmas present to the troops.

00:03:08.060 Being founded and operated by veterans, the team at Black Rifle Coffee knows what a quality

00:03:12.040 cup of coffee means to active duty troops spending the holidays away from home

00:03:15.440 and to the rest of us serving just ourselves in the kitchen in the mornings.

00:03:19.500 Do you want to support the cause?

00:03:20.480 Just go to BlackRifleCoffee.com slash MK today and check out the freshest coffee in America.

00:03:25.980 The team has spent thousands of hours tasting, sourcing, and perfecting coffee from all over

00:03:30.460 the world.

00:03:31.760 BlackRifleCoffee.com slash MK gets you 20% off coffee, apparel, and gear,

00:03:37.360 as well as 20% off your first month of the coffee club.

00:03:41.320 And now, Janice Dean.

00:03:43.140 Joining me now, one of my closest friends on earth, Janice Dean.

00:03:50.460 J.D., so happy you're here.

00:03:52.760 Oh my gosh, Megan, I am so excited for you.

00:03:56.020 This is amazing.

00:03:57.620 Oh, thank you.

00:03:58.520 You've been so supportive of the whole adventure and of everything in my life.

00:04:01.980 So it's funny because I'm having you on.

00:04:05.080 Yes, we have an amazing friendship and we've been through a lot together, much of which has

00:04:09.860 made news, but you're back in the news and you've become this warrior, which we're going

00:04:15.460 to get to in a minute when it comes to COVID and Cuomo.

00:04:17.760 But I just want the audience to understand how we know each other.

00:04:20.180 So we both worked at Fox News.

00:04:22.640 You're still there.

00:04:23.600 You're the meteorologist.

00:04:25.580 And I was thinking, when did she and I become friends?

00:04:29.100 And you tell me what you remember.

00:04:30.660 I remember seeing you at the Social Security office when we were both changing our names

00:04:36.940 after we had both gotten married in like 2008.

00:04:41.400 Correct.

00:04:42.160 I actually, I think it was the DMV because I was getting, it was the DMV in Manhattan because

00:04:48.740 I was getting my name changed to Newman.

00:04:51.560 Uh, and I remember you saying to me, cause you're so quick and funny.

00:04:56.540 You said, okay, Janice Dean, the weather machine.

00:04:59.620 So you're going to be Janice Newman, the weather woman.

00:05:05.760 Remember that?

00:05:07.080 Do you remember that?

00:05:08.040 That's right.

00:05:08.640 You're so smart.

00:05:09.660 It like, and I was like, oh my gosh, this woman has to be my best friend.

00:05:14.320 And then we made it happen.

00:05:15.860 You, I always laugh when people underestimate you because they don't, they don't know you.

00:05:21.040 Remember when you first started to take on the Cuomo thing and really started to, you're

00:05:26.620 like the only one, you're only, the only reason anybody's talking about what Governor

00:05:30.000 Cuomo did with COVID and Soledad O'Brien, who might be the nastiest person on Twitter.

00:05:36.020 I mean, she's definitely top three.

00:05:38.100 Um, she's gotten very, very bitter in her post CNN time was like, oh, the meteorologist

00:05:44.520 weighs in like, oh, like stupid meteorologist.

00:05:48.580 Why are we listening to the stupid?

00:05:50.140 And I, I was like, yeah, you know what?

00:05:53.860 The meteorologist, she's so sweet.

00:05:56.460 She wrote the book, mostly sunny and she's so positive and she's going to kill if you

00:06:02.700 hurt her or hurt her relatives or issue an order that happened to lead to the deaths of

00:06:07.620 6,000 people, including her relatives.

00:06:10.260 So you know what?

00:06:11.620 Ms. O'Brien, she gets an opinion.

00:06:13.380 And that's what I love about you is like, you pick your battles, you don't know, you're

00:06:17.120 not, not out there fighting every day, but you're just strong on Twitter, which I love.

00:06:21.280 Um, you pick your battles and I've, I've yet to see you lose one of them.

00:06:26.680 Well, I don't love it.

00:06:28.480 I don't love being that.

00:06:30.480 You've mentioned mostly sunny and I I've tried to maintain that kind of attitude for most

00:06:35.660 of my career.

00:06:36.340 And I actually enjoy being the meteorologist because I don't have to weigh in, uh, on

00:06:42.560 politics.

00:06:43.260 I've done news before I did it early on in my career and, um, weather's wonderful.

00:06:48.680 I always say the only red and blue that I see on a map or areas of high pressure and

00:06:53.560 low pressure.

00:06:54.160 Uh, and I, I love keeping it that way.

00:06:56.600 I love being out with the crowds pre COVID hugging people, having them be on television

00:07:02.600 with me and delivering a forecast for Fox and friends.

00:07:04.860 It really, truly is the greatest job I've ever had.

00:07:07.860 So to find myself in this weird situation of going after the governor of New York, um,

00:07:15.380 I, I don't love it.

00:07:16.600 And I, and I do hope that at some point we get some answers and accountability so I can

00:07:22.040 be that Janice, mostly sunny Dean that you see on television.

00:07:26.260 Again, I find it quite hard.

00:07:28.100 I don't know if I have the thickest of skin, but I will tell you, and I've said this to you

00:07:33.680 before, all of the things that have led up to this moment of taking on the governor of

00:07:38.440 New York, um, I believe have helped me with this.

00:07:42.480 I know we're going to talk about Roger Ailes.

00:07:44.660 I know we're going to talk about I miss, um, throughout my broadcasting careers, career,

00:07:49.100 I've had very powerful men, um, that have told me, no, you can't do something.

00:07:56.760 You just sit there, little meteorologist girl.

00:08:00.380 Um, and because I've gone through situations where I have taken on powerful people for

00:08:07.200 the right reasons, I believe that has given me, given me the building blocks to where I

00:08:13.080 am today, where I am going after this governor, uh, and I'm just going to continue to, you

00:08:20.600 know, cry from the mountaintop as long, as long as it takes for people to realize what this

00:08:27.140 man did because I want accountability and I want answers.

00:08:32.760 This, uh, it, it's thanks to you that anybody's even focusing on this, uh, Stu Bergeer of the

00:08:39.420 blaze said, and this is a quote, it's quite possible Cuomo would be getting away with this

00:08:44.120 if not for the efforts of people like Janice Dean.

00:08:47.500 So let's, let's fill the audience in on what we're talking about.

00:08:50.120 Uh, and governor Cuomo here in New York may become even more relevant to your life soon

00:08:56.400 because, uh, if Joe Biden takes the oath of office on January 20th, he's talked about,

00:09:02.220 they've talked about, they floated his name as, as possible attorney general or possible,

00:09:07.560 uh, possibly another position in the cabinet.

00:09:10.140 And, um, many believe he has higher aspirations in another term or two to ascend to the presidency.

00:09:16.760 Something his father, Mario Cuomo, who was beloved here in New York for many years was never quite

00:09:21.940 able to do.

00:09:23.200 Um, so you need to know about him.

00:09:25.340 And honestly, it's just about a politician who has been universally loved.

00:09:30.820 I mean, the way the media fawn over him is stomach turning to me.

00:09:36.000 And this guy, if, if he were a Republican, he would have been run out of office.

00:09:41.940 You know how many, how many examinations and investigations we'd be having into his conduct.

00:09:46.100 So we're going to walk through it, uh, a bit now.

00:09:48.760 All right.

00:09:48.980 So let's start with Janice is married to Sean, a firefighter and counterterrorism fight, uh,

00:09:55.460 expert.

00:09:56.040 And they have two little boys, uh, Matthew and Theodore and Sean's parents, Mickey and

00:10:03.060 D Mickey was also a firefighter married 59 years.

00:10:06.600 They lived up until the spring in a fourth floor walk up in Brooklyn for nearly 60 years.

00:10:14.060 And then they got sick.

00:10:15.640 And you take it from there.

00:10:18.420 Right.

00:10:19.260 And this is something that I am very compassionate about people who middle-aged people who are

00:10:25.940 wondering what to do with their ailing parents.

00:10:29.540 Sean struggled for months on what to do with his parents.

00:10:33.760 They, as you mentioned, they lived in a four-story walk up in Brooklyn for almost 60 years.

00:10:38.620 It was rent controlled.

00:10:40.000 We could not get them out.

00:10:42.620 Um, and they were very adamant about that.

00:10:45.860 They didn't want to move anywhere, uh, for many years.

00:10:48.800 No one wants to leave a rent controlled apartment.

00:10:50.580 No one.

00:10:51.180 Of course not.

00:10:52.000 But when they start getting older and they're having problems walking and getting down the

00:10:56.560 steps, you know, then it's time to try to figure out what we're going to do.

00:11:00.560 And they were really adamant.

00:11:02.400 They didn't want to move out of their apartment, even if we helped, you know, find an apartment

00:11:06.260 that was on the ground level close to where we were.

00:11:09.000 It just, it just got to the point where Sean couldn't ask them anymore.

00:11:11.860 They weren't going to do it, but then they got started.

00:11:14.420 They started getting sicker.

00:11:15.380 His dad had dementia.

00:11:17.640 Um, he, there were regular trips to the ER.

00:11:21.080 Sean was running from our place on Long Island to Brooklyn to take him to the hospital.

00:11:25.500 His sister was doing the same thing.

00:11:27.280 His mom was also could not walk, had back problems, had, uh, problems, you know, walking

00:11:33.400 and, and even getting out of a chair.

00:11:35.820 It was difficult.

00:11:36.760 They needed care.

00:11:38.140 They needed 24 hour care.

00:11:40.460 And so Sean spent a lot of time looking for a place.

00:11:44.600 The plan was we were going to have them in a really nice assisted living residence.

00:11:48.640 That was very close to where we are on Long Island.

00:11:51.700 We had a double room waiting for them.

00:11:53.740 We love the staff.

00:11:54.820 It was bright.

00:11:55.480 It was sunny.

00:11:56.540 D loved the people around her.

00:11:58.140 It was the most social she's ever been in her entire life because she was in this four

00:12:03.260 story walk up in Brooklyn for so many years and his father needed rehab.

00:12:08.380 So he was in a nursing home temporarily to get better because he had a lot of urinary tract

00:12:13.540 infections.

00:12:14.040 It was just, you know, he, we needed him better to get him into the assisted living residence.

00:12:19.020 And then COVID happened and his dad died quickly.

00:12:24.240 Uh, he died at the end of March and Sean got a call on a Saturday morning and we had no idea

00:12:31.060 we were in quarantine, right?

00:12:32.440 We weren't able to see them.

00:12:33.980 The eyes and ears were the people at their elder care facilities.

00:12:37.760 We couldn't, you know, physically be there to see them.

00:12:40.740 We didn't know his dad was sick at all.

00:12:42.920 We got a call on a Saturday morning that said his dad wasn't feeling well.

00:12:46.260 He was running a fever.

00:12:47.360 And three hours later, we get a call saying he's dead.

00:12:51.780 And we did not know he died of COVID until the death certificate.

00:12:57.200 And we were told he ever told you.

00:12:58.820 Nope.

00:12:59.620 No one ever told us to this day.

00:13:01.100 I don't know how he was tested, uh, how, you know, at what stage he was tested after

00:13:08.480 he died.

00:13:09.120 We're not, we're not clear on that, but I do remember Megan getting a call before he died

00:13:14.420 and Sean being on the phone from the people who worked at the nursing home saying, we're

00:13:19.440 going to move your father to a different floor because we're bringing new patients in.

00:13:23.380 And at the time I didn't think anything of it.

00:13:26.600 Yeah.

00:13:27.120 But then when I started seeing the few news reports that were out there about Cuomo's

00:13:32.700 mandate to put COVID positive patients into nursing homes, that's when my back went up

00:13:37.480 and I went, Hmm, okay.

00:13:39.580 I'm going to, I'm going to remember that.

00:13:41.100 His mom died two weeks later, uh, in the assist, she got COVID in her assisted living

00:13:47.240 residence.

00:13:48.060 We brought her to the hospital.

00:13:49.660 We were afraid to bring her to the hospital.

00:13:51.640 We thought she was going to get COVID in the hospital because we just thought she wasn't

00:13:54.920 feeling well, gets to the hospital.

00:13:57.340 They diagnosed, they diagnose her with COVID.

00:14:00.480 She dies maybe two days later.

00:14:02.900 Um, and because she died in the hospital, her number does not count as an elder care facility

00:14:11.300 death of COVID because she died in the hospital.

00:14:14.700 And that's another reason why I have a problem with this governor is he will not release the

00:14:18.980 total number of seniors that got COVID in their elder care facilities, but died in the hospital.

00:14:24.880 And those numbers are probably double what he's reporting his, his health department.

00:14:32.300 And no one's making him release those.

00:14:34.360 No.

00:14:34.560 So we know it was over 6,000 seniors who died in the nursing homes.

00:14:38.920 And I mean, the, the, the, the, the number that's very similar is over 6,000 COVID positive

00:14:45.980 patients who were moved into nursing homes.

00:14:48.620 Um, and yet we don't know that third number, which is how many died in hospitals having,

00:14:55.680 you know, contracted COVID and being shifted out to the hospital because they were that ill.

00:15:00.440 And how can he get away with not telling us?

00:15:02.980 I mean, all these numbers should be public.

00:15:04.660 Like, how does he keep it secret?

00:15:07.020 That's a very good question.

00:15:08.660 And one of the reasons why I'm so vocal, uh, he's actually being sued or his health department

00:15:13.740 is being sued by empire center, which is, um, you know, a watchdog of sorts, uh, Bill Hammond.

00:15:20.600 I've gotten to know him.

00:15:21.460 I've gotten to know a lot of New York lawmakers through all of this.

00:15:24.600 And some of the journalists out there, he's suing them for the information.

00:15:28.260 And we were supposed to know the total number of the health commissioner, Howard Zucker said

00:15:33.400 he was going to have it after the election, huh?

00:15:36.880 Have those numbers after the election, but wait, oh no, we don't have those numbers.

00:15:41.400 You're going to have to wait till sometime in January.

00:15:45.340 So yeah, they're getting away with it.

00:15:46.840 He's getting away with murder right now.

00:15:48.540 Well, maybe that he's going to keep it under wraps until he gets a tap on the shoulder

00:15:51.780 to possibly join the cabinet.

00:15:53.040 And then there's going to be another reason to delay because if you're right, if the numbers

00:15:56.440 are double, uh, and you know, now you're talking as many as 20,000 people dead potentially because

00:16:02.760 he thought it was a good idea to sign an order saying that nursing homes had to accept COVID

00:16:11.760 positive patients.

00:16:12.700 They could not turn them away and, and new patients coming in could not be tested for COVID,

00:16:20.440 right?

00:16:20.620 JD, that second piece of it is equally egregious.

00:16:23.120 It's very important.

00:16:25.060 That second piece that you could not test them.

00:16:28.420 You could not, um, what's the word?

00:16:32.140 Uh, um, you know, you, you, you had to take these patients regardless, uh, of whether or

00:16:40.140 not they had COVID.

00:16:40.940 So that's, so that was in place for 46 days, 46 days.

00:16:45.720 And Sean did not want me to go out there and talk about this at all.

00:16:50.800 You know, you know, him, he's very quiet.

00:16:53.480 I'm surprised he married me, right?

00:16:57.920 He's a very quiet, like doesn't want anybody broadcasting anything, but he doesn't like

00:17:04.180 the spotlight.

00:17:04.900 He does not.

00:17:06.020 Uh, he supports my career of course, but we had many discussions about this because when

00:17:10.060 I was reading about the March 25th order, the executive order by Cuomo that was in place

00:17:15.880 for 46 days to put COVID positive patients into nursing homes, when we saw him on TV,

00:17:22.040 never being asked about the mandate, instead joking with his brother on CNN with a giant

00:17:29.440 cotton swab, you know, about the governor getting his COVID test.

00:17:33.980 It made me furious.

00:17:36.000 And I was in touch with Tucker Carlson throughout the whole, you know, Tucker very well.

00:17:40.320 And we both talked to him off air.

00:17:43.960 We're good friends.

00:17:45.400 And I was telling him this and Tucker said, Janice, whenever you want to come on my show,

00:17:49.300 I will give you a platform because I was saying to him, why aren't people asking him about

00:17:53.960 this crazy order?

00:17:55.440 Why are they letting him get away with this and not asking him these important questions?

00:18:01.740 Thousands of families, thousands of families deserve answers.

00:18:05.840 And this is not a political thing.

00:18:07.920 This is not Republican or Democrat.

00:18:09.460 He's tried to dismiss your criticism as political, spoken like a true politician who knows absolutely

00:18:15.400 nothing about you.

00:18:16.900 I don't think in all the time we've been together, you've ever taken a political position.

00:18:20.440 You're you're Canadian.

00:18:21.840 You know, it's like he doesn't know you're not a political person.

00:18:27.140 You're an upset, grieving family member.

00:18:29.780 Like everyone is.

00:18:30.700 I have met hundreds of grieving families.

00:18:33.860 None of us ask each other who they voted for.

00:18:35.920 And Mickey and Dee, by the way, were registered Democrats.

00:18:39.340 How about that?

00:18:40.880 You know, shouldn't we investigate this situation?

00:18:45.460 What if it was six, 6,000 children, Megan?

00:18:48.900 What if it was double that that had died because of an order?

00:18:53.640 What if the governor had put COVID patients into into schools?

00:18:56.760 This would be the lead story in every newspaper, on every television station.

00:19:02.260 If he had a Republican, if he was a registered Republican and not a Democrat, he would definitely.

00:19:10.220 He was also out there touting his love for seniors, you know, Matilda's law on March 20th of this past year.

00:19:18.480 And we're going to protect seniors in nursing homes, he said.

00:19:21.580 We're going to protect the seniors in nursing homes.

00:19:23.960 The news was calling him America's governor.

00:19:26.880 And then he signed this order, which I know it's it's like a death trap.

00:19:32.820 I mean, it's.

00:19:34.480 How were they supposed to survive the most vulnerable among us with COVID positive patients being put into their facilities as they were being warned?

00:19:44.820 Most of these homes don't have private rooms.

00:19:49.080 These COVID positive patients are going to be too close to the other already vulnerable seniors.

00:19:56.060 That's the thing about it, J.D. that drives me the most insane is he knew the risk.

00:20:01.960 The nursing homes told him there was a there was a statement by the Society for Post-Acute and Long-Term Care Medicine saying care is a quote.

00:20:11.600 Caring for COVID-19 positive residents is unsafe and jeopardizes all patients in the nursing home.

00:20:19.760 They said forcing these admissions may have dire and fatal consequences.

00:20:24.840 And he didn't listen.

00:20:27.300 And now he's out there celebrating himself and his leadership during the crisis.

00:20:34.880 I couldn't believe when I heard he was writing a book in the middle of a pandemic.

00:20:39.460 What governor in the middle of a pandemic could write a book about this?

00:20:44.160 And then he goes on the TV shows and said, well, it's halftime.

00:20:47.820 No, it's not halftime.

00:20:50.200 There are 30,000 dead New Yorkers get to work.

00:20:55.080 You should be writing condolence cards instead of writing a book.

00:20:58.700 And now the numbers are going up here in New York and he continues to go on his victory lap.

00:21:03.760 It is it's insane to me.

00:21:07.640 And you know what?

00:21:08.700 He's when he does finally get asked, ask the question, Megan, when someone finally says, what about that nursing home order?

00:21:16.400 You know, March 25th, COVID positive patients into nursing homes.

00:21:20.720 You know, what about that?

00:21:23.380 He'll blame everyone.

00:21:24.700 Like you said, politics.

00:21:26.160 It's the New York Post.

00:21:27.540 It's Fox News.

00:21:28.920 He's blamed God.

00:21:29.940 He's blamed Mother Nature.

00:21:31.240 He's blamed the nursing home workers that he's blamed the visitors.

00:21:35.940 P.S.

00:21:36.340 We never got to visit our loved ones.

00:21:38.280 We never got to visit them.

00:21:39.520 We didn't have funerals.

00:21:40.380 We didn't have last rites.

00:21:41.740 We weren't able to have wakes.

00:21:43.560 We buried them.

00:21:44.900 So we weren't able to go visit them.

00:21:47.980 And finally, there was one time where he said, oh, old people, they're going to die.

00:21:52.240 I mean, it's insane, Megan.

00:21:54.500 And you could, I mean, I want a super cut of all these excuses, except the man that signed

00:21:59.160 the mandate for 46 days to put COVID patients into nursing homes.

00:22:04.020 That man is Andrew Cuomo.

00:22:05.860 And by the way, if you go to the New York health care website, it's not there.

00:22:11.160 It's been scrubbed.

00:22:12.700 That order has been scrubbed.

00:22:13.960 What do you mean?

00:22:13.980 The mandate?

00:22:14.600 Yes, it's gone.

00:22:16.440 You can't find it on the Internet.

00:22:18.480 Nope.

00:22:18.740 He's given a total pass on this by the press.

00:22:24.720 And I know, you know, he went on The View to promote his new book.

00:22:27.620 By the way, his book, I mean, I kid you not, it is called American Crisis, Leadership Lessons

00:22:34.260 from the COVID-19.

00:22:36.700 I mean, that's he's actually calling himself a leader and touting his leadership on this

00:22:42.480 problem.

00:22:42.960 Meanwhile, New York State is number one for deaths in the nation.

00:22:47.500 And it depends on who you ask.

00:22:49.100 The New York Health Department says it's almost twenty six thousand dead in New York.

00:22:52.300 Johns Hopkins says it's more like thirty three thousand.

00:22:54.560 But they're being a little unclear with the numbers.

00:22:57.340 So we don't know.

00:22:57.880 But we know we're number one in deaths.

00:22:59.320 And this guy's got the nerve to go out there and write a book about how to lead during COVID.

00:23:04.660 Honestly, I think it's because when he gave those weekly and daily briefings, he had a

00:23:09.440 calm manner and his manner of speaking was sort of soothing.

00:23:13.740 I don't know.

00:23:14.020 He sort of projected like, oh, I'm getting the whole truth.

00:23:16.420 And it's sort of a good warning for people just because someone has a good manner or

00:23:21.040 maybe in Trump's case, a bad manner doesn't mean you can tell anything about the truth

00:23:26.780 or falsity of the of what's going to come next, of what they're actually saying, because

00:23:30.820 he's been lying about this order and whether he signed it and whether he understood it.

00:23:36.720 He's just he he's first he said it never happened.

00:23:39.580 He said it never happened, Janice.

00:23:40.820 I mean, it's like, yeah, how's he get away with that?

00:23:42.600 Yes, he did an interview.

00:23:44.960 I just again, it's it's excruciating to listen to him.

00:23:49.320 And, you know, you can tell he doesn't somebody has not advised him well, because when he starts,

00:23:54.740 you know, being asked the question, he gets all huffy, like, how dare you ask me about

00:23:59.740 this order?

00:24:00.720 Like, that's a tell that's a tell of he actually said he said to a guy, a reporter in the Finger

00:24:06.300 Lakes, he said, how cruel of you to ask me of that?

00:24:10.380 I mean, like, seriously, he said that seriously.

00:24:12.980 He did.

00:24:14.080 And I here it is.

00:24:15.240 I think that you tell yourself a lie so many times he starts to believe it.

00:24:19.740 And he has been revered in New York for so long, or he hasn't been asked tough questions,

00:24:26.320 because you can tell no one has said, hey, here's your answer.

00:24:30.180 Stick to it.

00:24:31.620 Instead, that's right.

00:24:32.600 He has a different answer every single time.

00:24:35.460 And the problem is, you're right.

00:24:37.600 No mainstream media will ask him or follow up on the question and say, OK, really?

00:24:45.240 Well, here's here's the order and it does have your name on it and follow up with the

00:24:51.040 warnings that that he was given.

00:24:52.440 Like, not only.

00:24:53.460 Yes, you absolutely did sign the order.

00:24:55.280 I have it right here.

00:24:56.500 And B, you knew the risks.

00:24:58.940 Cite some of those things I just cited, you know, Society for Post-Acute and Long-Term Care

00:25:02.300 Medicine.

00:25:02.720 Like, you were told that this was going to have dire and fatal consequences and you did

00:25:07.500 it anyway.

00:25:08.240 Why did you do that?

00:25:09.720 No, we have one clip from The View.

00:25:12.140 This is Sonny Hostin, who I mean, this is weak sauce, but she she was like, how about

00:25:17.940 that covid thing and that nursing home order?

00:25:19.860 And here's what he said.

00:25:20.900 The conspiracy they're trying to to spread just has no factual basis.

00:25:27.340 But yes, people in nursing homes died and they're playing politics with the issue, which

00:25:32.680 I think is especially cruel.

00:25:34.440 There he goes again.

00:25:35.920 Conspiracy.

00:25:36.660 It's a conspiracy.

00:25:37.840 And also his percentages are wrong because we don't have the total number of seniors

00:25:42.760 that got covid and died in the hospital.

00:25:44.860 So he is giving false information all over the place.

00:25:48.560 And Sonny with her, you know, didn't even follow up.

00:25:52.380 They just gave him a pass.

00:25:53.640 And by the way, before she asked him the nursing home question, it was like, I love this book

00:25:58.200 so much.

00:25:58.880 It's so awesome.

00:26:00.520 So how on earth am I supposed to take these people seriously?

00:26:03.480 Honestly, Megan, I just I you know what, Governor Cuomo, come on, Megan Kelly show.

00:26:09.980 I dare you, Mr.

00:26:11.100 Tough Guy, instead of going on with Howard Stern and, you know, and and just love life

00:26:17.360 and nonsense and my leadership book.

00:26:20.820 Take some hard questions.

00:26:23.180 Show me you're a leader.

00:26:24.960 Show me you are the governor of the you know, your greatest state that has lost over

00:26:29.740 30,000 people to covid.

00:26:32.460 That's right.

00:26:32.900 Show me how tough you are.

00:26:34.300 You're always telling us how tough you are.

00:26:36.600 You know, there's a saying, the seven foot center doesn't tell you how tall he is.

00:26:40.560 The tough guy doesn't tell you how tough he is.

00:26:42.720 He doesn't have to, you know.

00:26:44.440 And the fact that he keeps running around saying how tough he is, is a real tell on what

00:26:49.600 a weakling he is.

00:26:51.460 Janice and I were joking, like, it'd be great if he would come here and I would sit across

00:26:54.740 from him at the table and ask him my tough question.

00:26:57.520 And then and then she would just jump out of the closet like, aha.

00:26:59.820 Ah, and another thing.

00:27:02.960 OK, but Governor Cuomo, I promise we won't actually do that to you.

00:27:06.020 But since you're so tough, I'm sure you can handle it.

00:27:08.060 But I would love to ask him those tough questions.

00:27:10.060 If you're really tough and you're really smart and you really have nothing to hide.

00:27:12.700 The truth is, is your ally.

00:27:14.700 You you want to be asked the tough questions.

00:27:17.160 Bring it on.

00:27:17.940 Yeah.

00:27:18.180 Let's talk about it.

00:27:18.900 Because I I didn't do what you're saying I did.

00:27:21.520 Oh, and yesterday, of course, he was talking about how he would have liked to punch out

00:27:24.580 Donald Trump, you know, like, really, really?

00:27:28.620 That's what that's what you're focused on.

00:27:30.920 Yeah, because he called because he calls Chris Cuomo the brother of the governor.

00:27:35.220 You know, the the CNN anchor is Chris Cuomo and the New York state governor is Andrew Cuomo.

00:27:40.100 And Andrew Cuomo is telling Howard Stern he would have liked to punch out Donald Trump

00:27:43.400 because he insulted my family because they call every everyone calls Chris Cuomo Fredo.

00:27:48.900 Because he is definitely the Fredo of the Cuomo family.

00:27:51.440 I mean, sorry, the truth hurts.

00:27:53.320 But apparently that's racist if you call him that.

00:27:55.820 Well, I'm half Italian, so I'm going to say it.

00:27:58.220 Isn't that how this works?

00:28:00.820 Oh, my goodness.

00:28:01.980 It's also why I can say the term paddy wagon.

00:28:03.920 I'm half half Irish on the other half, which I found out the hard way on Fox News is also

00:28:07.780 considered a slur because it's not P-A-D-D-Y.

00:28:11.360 It's P-A-T-T-Y from like rounding up all the drunken paddies and taking them away.

00:28:16.340 But I can speak on behalf of Irish people.

00:28:17.960 We don't give a shit how much you offend us.

00:28:21.000 We are unoffendable.

00:28:22.860 It's one of the great things about being Irish.

00:28:25.420 You know, I was thinking, you remember that show, You Might Be a Redneck?

00:28:29.460 Remember that?

00:28:30.260 I mean, obviously, you can't do that on television anymore.

00:28:32.820 Like it was what was his name?

00:28:34.480 Jeff Foxworthy.

00:28:36.260 You Might Be a Redneck.

00:28:37.140 It's a whole routine.

00:28:38.560 So now it's just like you might be a racist if you say this.

00:28:42.380 You know, it's like everything.

00:28:43.980 Have some orange juice.

00:28:45.140 Racist.

00:28:45.580 Oh, no, we were just talking about this with Matt Taibbi again yesterday, who's we were

00:28:51.620 talking about White Fragility, this ridiculous book by Robin DiAngelo.

00:28:54.880 And it was and her premise is if you're friends with if you're a white person who's friends

00:28:58.720 with a black person and you're and you're just having a good time and you're just loving

00:29:01.820 them and, you know, enjoying their friendship and you are not thinking about skin color.

00:29:05.880 You're a racist.

00:29:06.740 More with Janice Dean in one minute.

00:29:09.360 But first, I shared a hot story a couple of weeks ago and it nearly crashed the Scoremaster

00:29:14.300 website.

00:29:15.320 The story is there is help coming your way if you have bad credit or mediocre credit or

00:29:21.140 even if you have OK credit, but you really want it to go up.

00:29:23.860 And that is where Scoremaster comes in.

00:29:26.420 The story I told is that average Americans have 97 points that they can add quickly to

00:29:31.640 their credit score.

00:29:32.220 That's a lot, but most have no idea how to get it.

00:29:35.680 Scoremaster credit scientists discovered an algorithm that super boosts credit scores,

00:29:41.040 not just a few points, 97 points fast.

00:29:44.740 Imagine 97 points on top of your credit score.

00:29:47.100 That is super important if you're refinancing your home or buying a car or applying for credit.

00:29:52.140 Case in point, say you have OK credit and you're buying a car.

00:29:55.020 If you go to Scoremaster first and boost your credit score, just the average of 61 points,

00:30:00.180 that's the average you can get, you could save $9,000 on that car loan.

00:30:03.960 If you go to Scoremaster and boost your credit just the average number before applying for

00:30:07.040 a home loan, you could save almost $100,000 over the life of that loan.

00:30:11.220 Scoremaster puts you in control of your finances.

00:30:14.340 Enroll in just minutes and see how many plus points Scoremaster can add to your credit score.

00:30:19.640 Visit scoremaster.com slash MK, scoremaster.com slash MK.

00:30:30.180 Can I just go through, because I was looking at this guy, Stu Bergeer at The Blaze.

00:30:34.500 He did a great timeline of Governor Cuomo and like all the crap that President Trump got

00:30:40.360 for allegedly mishandling COVID, which really kind of led to his problems in this election.

00:30:46.380 You know, if you look at the number one issue for the majority of voters, it was COVID.

00:30:49.900 And the people for whom that was an issue voted against him.

00:30:52.580 Um, he did like a little timeline on Cuomo.

00:30:57.660 And I just, I did a couple of bullets.

00:30:59.000 I'm just going to read for the audience.

00:31:00.100 So you understand this is what happened from the guy who's just published a book being touted

00:31:05.080 by the media on leadership lessons in handling COVID.

00:31:10.580 Okay.

00:31:11.500 Uh, three, two March 2nd.

00:31:13.460 He says, New Yorkers are worrying too much about this.

00:31:16.180 Three, four March 4th.

00:31:17.220 The pandemic is being caused by fear.

00:31:19.000 Three, six.

00:31:19.720 More people are dying from the flu than from COVID.

00:31:22.460 Remember how that was awful to say?

00:31:23.940 Well, he said it March 8th.

00:31:25.900 Go on the subway.

00:31:26.860 March 9th.

00:31:27.540 This fear is unwarranted.

00:31:29.220 March 11th.

00:31:30.200 Uh, his brother, Chris, Chris Cuomo, after a six year ban and interviewing his brother

00:31:34.240 is now allowed to interview him.

00:31:35.980 And it's a joke.

00:31:37.060 No hard questions.

00:31:38.360 March 12th.

00:31:39.480 Uh, there's not going to be any quarantine.

00:31:41.260 March 18th.

00:31:41.880 There's not going to be a quarantine.

00:31:43.260 There is not going to be a shelter in place order for New York.

00:31:46.060 March 19th.

00:31:47.060 No shutdown is coming.

00:31:48.620 March 20th.

00:31:49.720 New York is shutting down literally the day after he said no shutdown is coming.

00:31:54.400 It happened.

00:31:55.280 And it came three days after he slammed New York City mayor, uh, Bill de Blasio for even

00:32:00.640 suggesting that there would be a shutdown.

00:32:02.800 And as Stu points out, it's very hard to be on the wrong end of an argument with Mayor

00:32:06.820 de Blasio.

00:32:07.420 But Governor Cuomo found a way to do it.

00:32:09.940 Um, okay.

00:32:11.020 Then March 24th, once again, with Chris Cuomo yucking it up about how funny and funny and,

00:32:17.200 you know, so much levity.

00:32:19.020 It's such a good time.

00:32:19.760 The very next day he issues that order that, that you could easily make the case directly

00:32:25.080 led to over 6,000 deaths of seniors.

00:32:27.980 Um, March 29th.

00:32:30.780 That's when the, the people were jumping up and down saying, this is dangerous.

00:32:33.860 This is dangerous.

00:32:34.480 He didn't listen.

00:32:35.120 And now he's out there celebrating himself as the media enables his being anointed as

00:32:42.520 this politician, America's governor, perhaps a cabinet member, perhaps even a president.

00:32:48.760 It's gross.

00:32:50.560 It's gross.

00:32:51.680 I'm going to continue to try to do what I can from my little beautiful Twitter feed.

00:32:56.760 And, you know, I'm grateful for your support and I'm grateful for Stu's support and I'm grateful

00:33:01.700 for Fox news and I'm grateful for Tucker.

00:33:03.620 And it was finally when Sean realized that this governor was getting away with murder that

00:33:09.720 he said, I think you need to say something.

00:33:12.600 And that's when I went on Tucker's show, uh, mid May, I believe, and started talking about

00:33:18.060 it.

00:33:18.420 And so I'm grateful for the media outlets that have the interest and, and are reporting

00:33:23.700 the story.

00:33:25.140 Um, but there's not, there's not enough.

00:33:28.360 Well, and yet CNN has the nerve to call Fox news state TV.

00:33:32.340 Where's your coverage of this?

00:33:34.660 You should be bending over backwards to be on these stories, given your obvious conflict

00:33:38.760 of interest and the total impropriety of letting Chris Cuomo interview his brother so many times

00:33:44.720 now over a very important and scary, deadly issue.

00:33:48.860 They should be humiliated.

00:33:50.360 I mean, if anything, they should be beating up on him more, not less.

00:33:53.620 They don't touch it.

00:33:54.500 They don't touch it.

00:33:55.840 They don't.

00:33:56.720 And I've actually gone after some of the anchors on CNN and MSNBC when they've had the governor

00:34:01.980 on afterwards via Twitter and said, Oh, how about that nursing home question?

00:34:06.760 Hmm.

00:34:07.120 You must've run out of time.

00:34:08.780 And they've gotten angry.

00:34:10.540 Well, we asked him this, this, and this bullet points.

00:34:14.020 And I, you know, I just said, you know what?

00:34:16.100 Great.

00:34:16.500 Good on you.

00:34:17.480 But the most important thing right now for New Yorkers or many of us is the fact that he

00:34:23.500 has lost more people than any other state.

00:34:25.780 And he continues to dodge the nursing home question because of the media.

00:34:30.860 And I have received so many people with those blue checks that have either verbally told

00:34:36.860 me or direct messaged me or texted me saying, keep going, JD.

00:34:43.340 Good job.

00:34:44.660 But yet.

00:34:45.580 Well, there's something else though.

00:34:47.440 I won't, I won't say the name.

00:34:48.840 I know this story because of our friendship, but somebody in a position of power reached out

00:34:54.180 to you to give you a warning.

00:34:56.520 It wasn't on behalf of governor Cuomo.

00:34:58.360 It was a friend who's in a position to understand governor Cuomo's character.

00:35:02.780 And do you want to, do you want to share what the warning was?

00:35:05.940 Yeah.

00:35:06.300 The warning was, and this, this person does know the family very well.

00:35:11.100 They said, good job.

00:35:14.120 You are, you know, you're, you're fighting for a good cause.

00:35:18.960 Watch your back.

00:35:21.080 Watch your back.

00:35:21.800 So he, you know, listen, he's, he's got, I've said this many times.

00:35:27.800 I'll go, I go out to rallies as well with all of these families who have situations like

00:35:32.980 ours that have lost loved ones.

00:35:34.920 And I feel like I don't know these people, but they're part of my family.

00:35:38.140 We're like COVID orphans.

00:35:39.540 Right.

00:35:40.600 And we, he's got the power.

00:35:43.540 He's got the name, the Cuomo name.

00:35:45.360 He's got the Democrats on his side, but you know what?

00:35:48.560 We've got the angels on our side.

00:35:50.360 And I just want people to know, we're talking about Sean's parents, Sean Newman.

00:35:56.120 He's an American hero.

00:35:58.040 This is a guy who was a firefighter on nine 11.

00:36:02.040 JD can cite the facts better than I can, but he, he was off that day.

00:36:07.540 Right.

00:36:07.920 Right.

00:36:08.120 He was getting his, his license renewed if memory serves and, and basically managed to

00:36:14.320 get down to the towers.

00:36:17.080 It was too late and spent the next several months digging out through the rubble, the

00:36:23.500 remains of his friends, his buddies, and others who had been working in the, in those

00:36:28.240 buildings at great risk to himself.

00:36:30.440 So that's, that's, that's Sean Newman.

00:36:32.960 Okay.

00:36:33.260 And then devoted the rest of his life to counter-terrorism work, to running into more burning

00:36:36.960 buildings to save people.

00:36:38.120 So screw you, Andrew Cuomo for not having the decency to answer his questions about his

00:36:46.380 dead parents.

00:36:47.640 Yep.

00:36:48.640 Absolutely.

00:36:49.520 Absolutely.

00:36:50.160 He's, he's the frontline worker right there.

00:36:52.440 You know, there were some articles recently about, you know, all of these anchors that are

00:36:57.920 working extra hours, you know, because of the election and they got like three hours of sleep.

00:37:03.400 And oh my goodness, they're doing such amazing work.

00:37:06.640 And I'm like, yeah, I'm married to a firefighter who basically, you know, that is his whole 23

00:37:12.680 year career is not getting enough sleep.

00:37:15.060 Cause you know, he's actually going in to try to save people.

00:37:18.060 So save me your nonsense about the pretty anchors on television.

00:37:22.880 I'm one of those anchors.

00:37:24.280 I get it.

00:37:25.240 I do hurricane coverage, but I'm not on there going, I haven't slept in three days because

00:37:30.940 of hurricane.

00:37:31.640 So-and-so, you know, well, this reminds me, this reminds me of the, the, a great comment

00:37:36.900 you made when, uh, the designer Stella McCartney was singing, uh, what's his name?

00:37:42.740 Joaquin Phoenix's praises after the Oscars.

00:37:46.380 And he had gotten up there and made a speech about how, like, I don't know, we're not supposed

00:37:49.780 to be drinking cow milk anymore.

00:37:51.180 And I don't, there's all sorts of things he's in favor of and fine.

00:37:55.080 I have no problem with him supporting those causes, but she wanted us to, to stand up and

00:38:01.440 clap for Joaquin Phoenix for wearing the same suit to the Oscars and the Emmys, like his

00:38:08.360 personal effort to save the world.

00:38:10.040 And I was like, this is ridiculous.

00:38:12.660 It's like, well, you mean he acted like a normal human and wore something twice.

00:38:16.140 And you were like, oh, and here's a picture of my husband in his suit that he wears every

00:38:22.780 day too.

00:38:23.320 It was like Sean in his fireman's outfit, like rip, right.

00:38:28.920 With soot on it for like 10 years of going into fires.

00:38:32.160 These people are so out of touch, Janice.

00:38:33.980 They're so out of touch.

00:38:34.860 They don't like, there's, they're drunk on their own wine, celebrating themselves with

00:38:38.480 like the, the news anchors and the Hollywood people.

00:38:41.420 Can we talk about Fox?

00:38:43.520 Yes.

00:38:43.960 People always ask me what it's like, what it was like to work there, right?

00:38:46.400 Cause I was there for 13 and a half years and I, I was like stressful, fun, high wire,

00:38:55.060 bizarre, unpredictable.

00:38:58.080 Um, it was definitely much more of a family than I felt any place else I worked.

00:39:03.620 That's for sure.

00:39:04.500 I'm much more of a close family, but also like a really dysfunctional family, you know,

00:39:09.220 not perfectly healthy.

00:39:10.760 There could, there's, there could be some therapy.

00:39:12.920 It was, I would say it was better for me when I was not at the top, you know, is on

00:39:17.840 the way up was easier.

00:39:19.740 And, um, I just wonder, what do you think?

00:39:22.380 Do I have it right?

00:39:23.340 You do.

00:39:24.120 I, you know, listen, when Roger Ailes hired me 17 years ago, he didn't ask me who I voted

00:39:30.300 for.

00:39:31.320 He saw somebody that would, that was a go-getter that wanted to get into television and get

00:39:36.940 away from a bad job that I was currently in.

00:39:39.260 Um, and from, you know, from then on I had mostly great experiences there, you know, barring

00:39:48.500 the stuff I know we're going to talk about.

00:39:50.500 Um, I met, I work with wonderful people.

00:39:53.860 I still work there.

00:39:55.160 I love what I do.

00:39:56.900 I love the people I work with.

00:39:58.500 We have been through a bumpy, uh, bumpy, you know, road, uh, with Fox, but I wouldn't want

00:40:06.680 to be anywhere else.

00:40:08.200 Um, and you know, I'm just grateful.

00:40:11.180 I'm grateful that at 50 years old, I'm still doing what I love to do.

00:40:17.280 Uh, you know, I, I love the viewers.

00:40:20.420 Um, and like I said, I can't wait to get back to the time where I'm in the studio or outside

00:40:26.660 with the fans doing the forecast.

00:40:28.740 Um, but certainly it, it has been quite a trip up until this point.

00:40:35.120 Well, I mean, I just think part of it is cable news in general.

00:40:37.580 It's just a, it's a bizarre world.

00:40:39.740 I mean, it's, I would say Fox may be less than some of the other places, but it attracts

00:40:43.840 a lot of strange, small people.

00:40:47.220 I didn't think Fox was really full of strange, small people, but I've met enough in the cable

00:40:51.140 news industry to say that.

00:40:52.480 Um, I think Fox is sort of an Island unto itself and 90% of my experiences there were

00:40:58.720 very positive and 10% were extremely negative.

00:41:02.160 Um, but that's, you know, not a terrible ratio for any job.

00:41:05.900 I feel that the people that were hired at Fox were not your quintessential anchors either.

00:41:10.980 You know, you look like a, you look at a Sean Hannity who was, you know, a construction worker.

00:41:15.320 Um, uh, you know, Roger never asked me, uh, for my resume, basically.

00:41:20.140 It was like, you met with him.

00:41:21.960 He either liked you or not.

00:41:23.220 I think I told him that I quit college after four, four months because I wasn't doing what

00:41:28.260 I love to do.

00:41:28.960 And he was like, Oh, I like that about you.

00:41:31.420 That's the best thing you could have done.

00:41:32.700 Quit college.

00:41:33.620 You know, I think we were all sort of like misfit toys a little bit, uh, and right.

00:41:38.800 And, and a lot of us still are.

00:41:41.280 And that was sort of the beauty of Fox is that we weren't kind of hired in the traditional

00:41:45.500 way.

00:41:45.980 It was sort of like, I like her, she's spunky, or I like this guy because he, you know, he

00:41:51.620 came from nothing.

00:41:53.040 Um, and, and, and that's what kind of that built that foundation of Fox.

00:41:57.260 It wasn't the traditional of you give a resume, you have an agent, you go meet them.

00:42:01.460 They look at your tape.

00:42:03.280 Um, no one ever, I remember when, when Roger offered me the primetime role and he offered

00:42:09.920 me a big raise.

00:42:10.580 And I remember saying, this is unbelievable.

00:42:12.340 I would do this for free.

00:42:13.280 I can't believe he was giving me a big raise.

00:42:14.740 Like I love my job so much.

00:42:17.720 And then like three months into my role in primetime, I was like, I, Oh, I said, Santa

00:42:23.460 Claus is white and everybody lost their mind.

00:42:25.760 I was actually only repeating something a black woman had said, but I agreed with her

00:42:28.660 that the commercial depiction of Santa Claus was white and people lost their minds.

00:42:32.380 And there was so many negative articles written.

00:42:34.380 And I was like, what the hell is going on?

00:42:36.500 Oh wait, now I know why they give you all the money.

00:42:38.280 I figured out why they give you all the money.

00:42:40.520 No sane person would do this for a living without getting their pocket lined.

00:42:46.320 At least, you know, it was just, it's just a daily barrage of negativity and fighting.

00:42:52.100 And you're like, why am I doing this again?

00:42:55.060 Remember how nice the afternoon show was?

00:42:57.660 I know.

00:42:58.280 Look at Tucker, man.

00:42:59.180 I see him every day and he's doing great work.

00:43:01.400 Uh, and, and I, I feel for him because, you know, he's got to have security and he worries

00:43:06.140 about his family.

00:43:06.940 You know, people like to think, Oh, that, Oh, the big anchor man making so much money

00:43:12.420 and like fame and fortune, you know, he, he worries about his family and the safety of

00:43:17.780 his family, you know?

00:43:19.180 Oh yeah.

00:43:19.620 I mean, he and I had a long talk when I was leaving Fox and he was moving into, uh, the

00:43:26.540 prime time and I almost felt, I told him, you know, about my reservations of the, about

00:43:32.120 the job and the lifestyle.

00:43:33.400 And I, I almost felt bad, you know, like he was happy and excited.

00:43:38.200 And I almost felt like I'm going to pass you this baton, but this baton may be covered

00:43:43.340 in asbestos and just like bus exhaust and, uh, you know, other things that you really don't

00:43:49.100 want to touch and you don't, don't want around you and you don't want to breathe in.

00:43:51.740 And so like, be careful, put on the gas mask, put on the rubber gloves, go, go do it in

00:43:57.340 a hazmat suit, but do it.

00:43:58.820 Cause you'll be good at it.

00:43:59.860 And he, and he is, but I do feel for him now.

00:44:02.820 Cause I, I see them, you know, of course all the left wing will tell you that Tucker is

00:44:07.240 a white supremacist.

00:44:08.440 And it's like, this is what they do.

00:44:09.820 If, if you, if you take any rhetorical risks at all, especially on dicey subjects like race,

00:44:15.900 where you don't go along perfectly with what the left wants you to say, they'll demonize

00:44:19.600 you and Tucker is extremely effective at what he does.

00:44:22.500 He's not always ginger about the way he approaches tough issues.

00:44:26.220 Um, but cable news is just a brutal landscape.

00:44:30.160 And, and, you know, the funny thing is JD, when I left, I took all the furniture to my

00:44:34.440 office, you know, as I was required to, I took all my stuff and, um, I left one thing

00:44:41.680 and it was a sign hanging on my wall that read, you don't have to be crazy to work here.

00:44:47.740 We have on the job training.

00:44:53.520 Well, this is why I love what you're doing now.

00:44:55.860 It's because I feel like we are at a great need for this kind of media, this kind of discussion,

00:45:01.600 because you only have, when I'm on Tucker's show, I get three and a half minutes to sort

00:45:05.480 of like, Oh, the governor, then here's what he did.

00:45:08.000 Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, break, you know?

00:45:10.120 Yeah.

00:45:10.380 You're out.

00:45:11.100 But it's so great that you have time to talk.

00:45:13.700 You're able to like have thoughtful conversations back and forth.

00:45:17.280 And this, I think, you know, the podcast, especially in the time of COVID, I will tell

00:45:22.320 you that your podcast has actually helped me lose weight.

00:45:26.760 Really?

00:45:27.980 Yes.

00:45:28.620 Because I realized, because I did gain the COVID at least 10, not quite 19, but close.

00:45:37.760 And then I thought, you know what?

00:45:38.660 For my family's sake, I've got to take care of myself.

00:45:40.880 I'm going to start to walk.

00:45:41.760 And I needed things to listen to.

00:45:44.720 And I was so grateful when your podcast came along, because I would just keep walking.

00:45:50.060 I mean, Steve Crowder, your interview with him was three hours.

00:45:53.640 So I'm like, Oh, I'm just going to keep on walking for three hours.

00:45:57.220 So, but my point is, I love that, you know, you're immersed in this conversation.

00:46:01.420 That's very thoughtful.

00:46:02.840 And it's not like, boom, you're out or rap.

00:46:06.220 We got a commercial break.

00:46:07.000 Yes.

00:46:07.520 I love it.

00:46:08.100 I'll tell you.

00:46:09.100 And I do love the fact that you can inject humor in, you know, in a way that you really,

00:46:13.460 it's hard to do on cable news.

00:46:14.720 I tried.

00:46:15.420 I mean, I remember one night the New York Times was there covering my show and it was a tough

00:46:20.820 news night.

00:46:21.380 I mean, it was brutal.

00:46:22.460 The news that day.

00:46:23.360 And the reporter asked, like, what did you, how would you describe, you know, that hour?

00:46:27.540 And I said, well, we, you know, we talked about terrorism.

00:46:30.480 We talked about ISIS and we had a lot of laughs.

00:46:34.380 And if you can find a way to do that when you only have 42 minutes, you know, not, that's

00:46:38.720 the show without the commercials, then good on you.

00:46:41.080 But it's just so much easier to have a natural flow of conversation that sometimes is happy,

00:46:45.120 sometimes is sad, sometimes is infuriating.

00:46:47.100 You cover all the emotions in this forum and it's not just outrage as cable news is.

00:46:56.200 More with JD in one second.

00:46:57.740 But first, this holiday season, more people will be mailing stuff than ever before.

00:47:03.240 You know that you can't even see your relatives in so many places, so you got to mail them

00:47:06.120 their presents.

00:47:07.060 That means the post office is going to be very busy.

00:47:10.040 You don't have time for that.

00:47:11.320 I don't have time for that either.

00:47:12.360 Stamps.com brings the post office and now UPS shipping to you.

00:47:18.420 Mail and ship anything from the convenience of your home or office computer.

00:47:23.480 With Stamps.com, anything you can do at the post office, you can do with just a few clicks.

00:47:28.220 Plus, Stamps.com saves you money with deep, deep discounts that you can't even get at

00:47:33.380 the post office.

00:47:34.760 Stamps.com will bring the services of the U.S.

00:47:37.120 Postal Service and UPS right to your computer.

00:47:39.520 Stamps.com is a must-have for any business.

00:47:42.360 Whether you're a small office sending out invoices, an online seller fulfilling orders

00:47:46.760 during this record-setting holiday season, or even a giant warehouse sending thousands

00:47:51.400 of packages a day, Stamps.com can handle it all with ease.

00:47:56.280 You simply use your computer to print official U.S. postage 24-7 for any letter, any package,

00:48:02.700 any class of mail, anywhere you want to send it.

00:48:05.860 Once your mail is ready, you just schedule a pickup or you can drop it off too.

00:48:09.420 It's that simple.

00:48:10.640 And with Stamps.com, you'll get 5 cents off every first-class stamp, and up to 40% off

00:48:15.440 priority mail, and up to 62% off the UPS shipping rate.

00:48:19.100 Don't spend a minute of your holiday season at the post office this year.

00:48:21.880 You never want to be at the post office, you know that.

00:48:23.700 They're fine, but it's not pleasant.

00:48:25.860 Sign up for Stamps.com instead.

00:48:27.580 There's no risk.

00:48:28.440 With my promo code, MK, you'll get a special offer that includes a four-week trial, plus

00:48:32.480 free postage, and a digital scale.

00:48:34.640 No long-term commitments or contracts.

00:48:36.160 Just go to Stamps.com, click on the microphone at the top of the homepage, and type in MK.

00:48:41.520 Do it now.

00:48:42.120 That's Stamps.com.

00:48:43.180 Enter MK.

00:48:44.300 Stamps.com.

00:48:45.500 Never go to the post office again.

00:48:47.660 Back to JD in one second.

00:48:48.800 But first, I want to bring you this feature that we call, You Can't Say That.

00:48:52.860 The full name in my head is, You Can't Say That, or Do That, or Think That.

00:48:56.240 Oh, wait.

00:48:56.640 This is America.

00:48:57.260 The latest edition for you today is about words I'm going to say that may get me in

00:49:03.100 trouble.

00:49:03.460 You ready?

00:49:04.900 Insane.

00:49:05.960 Crazy.

00:49:07.100 Nuts.

00:49:08.400 That's right.

00:49:08.920 The word police, better known as the Associated Press style book, has just deemed those words

00:49:13.880 derogatory.

00:49:15.700 Yes, you're a bad person now if you say crazy.

00:49:18.920 The Associated Press makes the grammar rules that basically press people are supposed to

00:49:23.040 follow if we want to be good people in writing our articles or for news anchors to say on

00:49:29.000 the air.

00:49:29.620 And in a tweet yesterday, the AP let us all know that, you know, what you could say on

00:49:33.760 Monday and be a good person, you can no longer say on Tuesday if you want to be a good person

00:49:37.300 because those terms are, quote, derogatory.

00:49:40.240 They said such as insane, crazy, crazed, nuts, or deranged, telling writers not to use these

00:49:45.380 words unless they are part of a quotation that is essential to the story.

00:49:48.960 Mm-hmm.

00:49:50.940 So that's insane.

00:49:52.040 And I have heard your offer, AP, and I refuse.

00:49:56.200 I reject it.

00:49:57.040 I think it's crazy.

00:49:57.920 I think it's nuts.

00:49:58.900 I think it's moronic.

00:50:00.340 And I'm going to let that be my last word on the matter.

00:50:04.000 Okay.

00:50:05.020 That officially was our segment.

00:50:06.640 You can't say that.

00:50:07.620 Back to Janice.

00:50:08.280 And I just want to tell you, this is what I would refer to as the Me Too section of our

00:50:12.000 interview.

00:50:12.960 And it's very, very personal.

00:50:15.080 And it gets kind of emotional.

00:50:17.220 So I just kind of want to give you a little listener warning on that.

00:50:19.980 It's tough.

00:50:20.520 These subjects are tough.

00:50:22.040 Janice has been through it, and I've been through it.

00:50:23.980 And the two of us kind of held hands and went through it together when it happened at Fox.

00:50:28.400 And this is the very first time she and I will ever have spoken about this publicly.

00:50:34.360 We've had a lot of private talks about it.

00:50:35.840 But when I wrote my book, which talked about my story at Fox, she had not yet outed herself

00:50:42.720 as a participant in that whole thing.

00:50:44.640 And when she wrote her book, I was not yet on the air.

00:50:47.900 I was not on the air.

00:50:48.740 I was in between jobs.

00:50:50.060 So I didn't get to talk to her about it.

00:50:51.880 I remember watching her on all these shows thinking, they're not asking her the right

00:50:54.240 stuff.

00:50:54.740 They're not getting her to talk about the right things.

00:50:56.740 She and the women of Fox News, not me, not Gretchen.

00:51:00.480 She and the women of Fox News, who had everything to lose, are the real heroes of that story.

00:51:06.720 They're the ones who risked everything.

00:51:07.900 I think you're going to hear some details about the story that you've never heard before.

00:51:12.340 And that may prove helpful to some people out there who are still struggling with this

00:51:17.460 right now.

00:51:17.980 So without further ado, back to JD.

00:51:24.360 I want to talk about television.

00:51:26.480 Before I get to that, though, let's talk about radio, because you mentioned your background

00:51:29.440 is in radio.

00:51:30.280 Janice is from Canada, and she was always incredibly beautiful.

00:51:34.100 Your throwback Thursday pictures, I always look forward to them.

00:51:36.600 And I'm like, she was always gorgeous?

00:51:38.740 Like, what the hell?

00:51:39.640 You didn't even have a damn awkward face.

00:51:42.000 You always had that million dollar smile.

00:51:43.980 You always had perfect hair.

00:51:45.020 You're always nice and tall.

00:51:46.880 And then I learned from your book that you used to be a dog catcher for some of those

00:51:50.740 years.

00:51:52.420 Not for very long.

00:51:54.560 But yeah, I was one of those kids.

00:51:56.960 And I think you were probably too.

00:51:58.860 I always wanted to work.

00:52:00.320 Like right when I was like 10 years old, I would go to my dad and say, when can I work?

00:52:03.420 When can I make money?

00:52:04.140 You know, I really want to get out there.

00:52:06.600 And I had lots of odd jobs.

00:52:09.680 And there was one particular summer when I was in high school that I applied for a job

00:52:15.920 at City Hall, at Ottawa City Hall, which is where I grew up.

00:52:19.860 I was born in Toronto.

00:52:20.540 And they were looking for kind of like help, secretary help, you know, filing and taking

00:52:28.460 phone calls and that kind of thing for the bylaw department.

00:52:32.120 And the bylaw department is basically all the jobs that the police officers don't want

00:52:36.440 to do.

00:52:36.680 So you go, you know, you log calls from people saying, my next door neighbor's grass is too

00:52:41.640 long or his dog is barking.

00:52:44.140 So you take those calls all day long and you write them up.

00:52:47.060 And, you know, the bylaw enforcement officer will go out.

00:52:49.620 And if he hears that dog barking, he's going to issue a ticket there.

00:52:54.700 You know, there were building codes like you had to go out.

00:52:57.140 She's got pictures of herself, by the way, in the in sort of the security uniform, checking

00:53:03.560 out the situation with the barking dog.

00:53:05.640 I did that job for several summers, but I wasn't in the outfit.

00:53:10.280 I was like just taking the phone calls and logging the calls.

00:53:13.780 And then when I decided that I was going to quit university, that I was going to, you

00:53:17.120 know, I was journalism.

00:53:18.040 I was taking journalism.

00:53:19.200 It was five years.

00:53:20.040 And, you know, three months in, I was like, when do I get to be on camera?

00:53:23.420 And they're like fifth year.

00:53:24.260 I'm like, I'm out of here.

00:53:25.900 So I quit and I went back and I, I didn't, you know, my parents were very upset with me,

00:53:32.020 but I was like, I'm going to work.

00:53:33.700 I'm going to, you know, I had a job at a clothing store at a men's clothing store for

00:53:36.720 a while.

00:53:37.020 And I went back to city hall and I said, listen, I, I, I quit school.

00:53:40.780 Can you guys like, can I, is there any opportunities with the, with the bylaw department?

00:53:44.980 They're like, suit up.

00:53:47.740 So I was the one that called out the, did the calls to the bylaw officer, like bylaw base to

00:53:53.780 a car 16, we have a 10 46 on the loose.

00:53:57.180 So I was doing that.

00:53:58.520 And actually the people I worked with said, that's how your job in radio began is being

00:54:03.180 the bylaw enforcement dispatcher.

00:54:05.640 Bylaw base.

00:54:07.640 Absolutely.

00:54:08.320 I loved it.

00:54:09.300 Oh, we would always joke.

00:54:10.460 Like we would make like, you know, kind of like, you know, you couldn't say stuff on

00:54:14.040 the radio, but we would kind of like sneak things in that were kind of like suggestive

00:54:18.140 and stuff.

00:54:18.560 It was a crazy world back then.

00:54:20.180 I think this is how my TV career began for me on the aerobics stage.

00:54:25.020 Cause I used to be a diehard aerobics teacher.

00:54:27.220 Like, you know, there's something about it, right?

00:54:28.980 You enjoy the performance.

00:54:30.420 You enjoy in that case, barking at people.

00:54:32.560 People might say, I still do that, but right.

00:54:34.860 And then, and there you were parallel up in Canada working on the similar track and all

00:54:40.440 of that wound you up eventually sitting next to Don Imus, who at the time, uh, with either

00:54:48.720 the exception of Howard Stern or not, depending on how you see those two and their radio careers

00:54:53.260 when they were up against each other was the biggest radio star in the country.

00:54:57.600 Um, again, Howard is like, what?

00:54:59.920 And, uh, you, you did not have a very favorable experience with him.

00:55:05.620 Um, that's an understatement and, um, it took me a long time to be able to talk about it.

00:55:12.180 And I wrote about it in the book that came out last year, two years ago, mostly sunny.

00:55:16.780 I was working at a radio station for several years in Ottawa, a classic rock station and,

00:55:22.300 uh, fell in love with a, with a boy and followed him to Houston, uh, lived in Houston for a couple

00:55:28.380 of years.

00:55:28.780 I was, I always did radio and television on the side.

00:55:31.200 So radio was my primary love and my primary, you know, job and the television stuff was

00:55:37.320 always like, you know, uh, did weather and I did traffic on some of the local channels.

00:55:41.280 Anyway, something happened in Houston, uh, a situation where I was, um, um, someone broke

00:55:49.680 into my apartment at night in Houston and, uh, robbed me and assaulted me.

00:55:55.140 And, uh, he, you know, got out of the apartment.

00:56:00.000 Um, but obviously that was a huge moment in my life, um, that made me think I got to do

00:56:06.060 something different.

00:56:06.680 I don't want to live in Houston anymore.

00:56:08.100 I don't feel safe.

00:56:09.060 I went back to Ottawa for, uh, for less than a year and I was working at the local radio station

00:56:14.800 and I have dual citizenship.

00:56:16.000 So my father was American and, uh, and I was able to get my dual citizenship and I'm, I'm

00:56:22.300 very blessed to have that.

00:56:23.440 And one of my coworkers came over and said, JD, you'd be really good at this job.

00:56:28.540 And I looked at it and it said, you know, entertainment reporter for Don Imus in New York.

00:56:34.200 There's like, what, why do you think I'd be good at this?

00:56:38.020 He's like, well, look at, look at it.

00:56:39.500 You know, you've done all those jobs.

00:56:40.880 You were, you know, you were a jock on the radio.

00:56:43.260 You've done television.

00:56:44.340 You've done news.

00:56:45.580 I mean, this is right up your alley.

00:56:46.940 You have dual citizenship.

00:56:48.560 I thought, you know what?

00:56:50.540 Okay.

00:56:51.220 I'll send him my tape and my resume.

00:56:52.840 Never in a million years thinking that I would get a call back and I got a call back and

00:56:58.080 it was the program director of WFAN.

00:57:00.460 And he said, I liked your resume.

00:57:02.540 Uh, when can you get here?

00:57:03.880 You know, interview you.

00:57:04.880 He didn't say we're going to fly you there or, you know, here's your transportation.

00:57:08.260 I had to, I had to drive myself to New York, Astoria, Astoria, Queens.

00:57:13.220 And, uh, and I interviewed and Imus wasn't there the first day.

00:57:18.180 He was at his ranch in New Mexico, which is what he did in the summertime.

00:57:22.780 Um, but I sat there with the gal that was leaving Christy Muzumechi.

00:57:26.140 And she kind of like said, why do you want this job?

00:57:30.660 Like, uh, you know, she's like, well, you're like, it's my dream.

00:57:35.300 What do you mean?

00:57:36.140 It's New York city.

00:57:37.420 Oh my goodness.

00:57:38.240 You know, meanwhile, we're in the basement of like, you know, Kaufman, Astoria studios.

00:57:41.860 Um, it wasn't long after that, when I, you know, when Imus was in the studio that I realized

00:57:47.780 that this was probably the worst job of my career.

00:57:51.140 And yeah.

00:57:52.460 So just tell us why, like how, what did he do to you?

00:57:56.340 He was extraordinarily mean.

00:57:59.620 He, well, here's the thing.

00:58:01.480 He was very good at manipulation.

00:58:03.200 So he, at certain times he'd be like, oh, doing a good job.

00:58:07.660 Like he would, he would like throw that in once in a while, just when you were like

00:58:11.080 off the edge of like wanting to like, you know, like run away and hide or move back

00:58:16.500 to Canada.

00:58:17.900 And I knew from the other guys that I was, you know, that I was working with, that I

00:58:22.180 was doing a good job when I would go in and I would deliver and, and, you know, try to

00:58:25.700 make him laugh or, um, but he, he was very cruel, you know, right away it was sort of told

00:58:31.220 like, don't look at him when he walks in.

00:58:33.120 He had always had a gun.

00:58:34.340 So he had a gun, a loaded gun with him.

00:58:36.480 He was able to bring a gun into work every single day.

00:58:40.040 He said it was for protection, but he would like, he would come out sometimes and, you

00:58:45.380 know, the traffic reporter would be, um, sitting, you know, their back would be to the studio

00:58:50.840 and he would come out with the gun and point it like at the traffic reporter's head.

00:58:54.700 And like, think that was funny.

00:58:56.840 There were times where he would sit there and take the bullets out of his gun and name

00:59:01.080 the bullets after us.

00:59:02.160 This one's for Bernie, this one's for Sid, Janice.

00:59:05.700 Um, he, he would call me dumb, stupid, fat.

00:59:10.020 There was one time where he, the most terrible time I remember was he brought me in one time

00:59:16.160 and do you know, remember Denise Austin?

00:59:18.040 Remember the exercise lady?

00:59:19.580 So she used to come on the show.

00:59:21.420 I told you I was an aerobics instructor.

00:59:23.000 I knew you should.

00:59:24.000 She's right up your ass.

00:59:25.760 This is your lane.

00:59:27.280 So ironically, Jane Fonda was another inspiration, but that didn't end well.

00:59:32.840 Fine by me.

00:59:33.780 Totally fine by me.

00:59:34.760 I'm so glad she won't be appearing on your show anytime soon.

00:59:37.440 She will not.

00:59:38.240 No, no.

00:59:38.920 It is a, okay.

00:59:40.860 Okay.

00:59:41.240 Keep going.

00:59:42.400 So, um, oh yeah.

00:59:43.840 Oh yeah.

00:59:44.060 She said she would come on.

00:59:45.100 Maybe I, what do you guys think?

00:59:46.200 Let me know if you think I should interview her.

00:59:47.440 I think it's going to be a little awkward.

00:59:49.040 Absolutely.

00:59:49.760 Absolutely.

00:59:50.360 I think I would love to hear an interview with Jane.

00:59:52.660 You should.

00:59:53.520 I mean, why not?

00:59:54.760 I would love to finish the conversation and say, Jane, let's talk.

00:59:58.420 I think your plastic surgery looks amazing.

01:00:00.720 You look great.

01:00:02.080 I just wanted to know why, you know, like you're talking about starting a movie about old people

01:00:06.520 and you're talking about being real.

01:00:07.920 And like, you've talked about it 50,000 times with everybody else.

01:00:11.000 So I want to ask a question.

01:00:12.540 Anyway, memory lane.

01:00:14.480 Yeah.

01:00:14.880 Yeah.

01:00:15.180 I mean, listen, I would listen to that interview.

01:00:17.560 There's a lot of people I think you, you should interview.

01:00:20.260 Um, I'm not going to interview Debra Messing and I don't care what you say.

01:00:23.300 Oh, I agree with you.

01:00:24.500 She's a, she's a nice person.

01:00:26.400 She's too hateful.

01:00:27.540 She hates everybody on the right.

01:00:29.760 I feel bad for her.

01:00:30.920 I actually feel bad for her and Soledad O'Brien.

01:00:34.140 I feel like anybody that's that vicious on social media must have like a terrible life.

01:00:38.560 Like why?

01:00:39.180 That's true.

01:00:39.400 Why are you like this?

01:00:40.660 Oh, oh, she's angry again.

01:00:42.220 Oh, what a shock.

01:00:46.200 Okay.

01:00:46.560 Sorry.

01:00:46.800 Keep going.

01:00:47.200 Denise Austin.

01:00:48.240 Oh, Denise Austin.

01:00:49.220 So this is the time where I'm thinking to myself, oh, I got to get out of this job.

01:00:52.540 This is a terrible job.

01:00:53.500 Cause he really, he, every day he would just call you a new name, but there was one day

01:00:57.660 where he's, he, he summoned me into the studio and she was in the studio and he was like,

01:01:03.460 they, they, they were on, I mean, they were simulcast on FAN and, uh, MSNBC.

01:01:10.540 So this was on television.

01:01:11.620 Right.

01:01:12.500 And that's right.

01:01:13.300 Cause he, he brought his show over to Fox business, but he was on MSNBC before that.

01:01:18.100 That was before he made that comment about the female basketball players that ended his

01:01:22.380 time there.

01:01:22.820 Okay.

01:01:23.620 So, uh, he made me stand up and said, and said, Denise, she's got to get a boyfriend.

01:01:32.300 Like she needs to lose a lot of weight.

01:01:34.120 So like, look at her thighs and look at her backside and what can we do for her?

01:01:38.000 She's got a little bit, you know, she needs more.

01:01:39.820 It was, it was devastating.

01:01:42.960 I was like, you know, I'm somebody that struggled with my weight, my whole entire life.

01:01:48.020 And I, you know, I have a, you know, better outlook now.

01:01:51.380 Um, but you know, at the time, you know, it was, it was certainly bringing up all of these

01:01:56.700 old wounds where he is like tearing me down for my appearance and, you know, having to

01:02:02.060 try to lose weight.

01:02:03.120 Yes.

01:02:03.380 And on television.

01:02:04.780 And she was like, Oh, I was like, but I'm well within the guidelines of weight watchers.

01:02:10.080 I remember saying that I was just like devastated.

01:02:13.380 And, uh, yeah.

01:02:15.480 So I knew that that was sort of the beginning.

01:02:18.000 Did she say, I miss you're being so inappropriate.

01:02:21.000 No, no, no, she didn't.

01:02:23.680 She just sort of, I mean, she tried to sort of like make it funny.

01:02:27.540 I think we were all like everybody's jaw dropped, but I will tell you, um, you know, he,

01:02:32.800 he recently died and, and I've had a lot of time to sort of reflect on the relationship

01:02:38.160 with him.

01:02:38.640 And when I came to Fox, by the way, that was one thing I was very adamant about is when

01:02:43.580 he came over and everyone knew, cause I told everyone, I'm like, Oh, he was terrible to

01:02:47.100 me.

01:02:47.440 I'm like, Oh, um, I, I told Bill shine, um, that under no circumstances would I ever do

01:02:54.940 weather on, I miss his show.

01:02:57.200 I don't care if there's a category five coming down on New York city.

01:03:01.000 There is no way I will ever.

01:03:02.760 And they were good with that.

01:03:03.740 They were good.

01:03:04.240 There was a time where I remember one producer, there was a hurricane and they were like,

01:03:08.140 Janice Dean, can you do a weather report on it?

01:03:10.400 I was, I'm like, uh, no.

01:03:13.080 See clause number four on my contract.

01:03:16.660 Yeah.

01:03:16.820 That's right.

01:03:17.660 That's where Rick Reichmuth comes in and save the day.

01:03:20.460 That's right.

01:03:21.040 That was, that was, but I always envisioned myself.

01:03:24.080 I always thought to myself, if one day, if he called me and said, Janice, when you come

01:03:30.600 talk to me in my office, I just, I just want to talk to you.

01:03:34.100 I always sort of envisioned him like apologizing and I would have accepted the apology.

01:03:39.340 I would have, I would have accepted it, um, but he, he didn't obviously.

01:03:46.060 And he died last year.

01:03:47.560 And I remember being very conflicted, obviously, because, you know, I was seeing all of these

01:03:51.880 things on social media, broadcasting hall of fame, like the amazing blah, blah, blah.

01:03:57.160 And I went on, I was like, you know, all of these things can be true that he can be like

01:04:01.460 a, an award winning broadcaster.

01:04:03.340 Broadcaster helped a lot of kids with cancer, helped a lot of kids with candor cancer, but

01:04:08.080 he can also be somebody who was very abusive and very cruel.

01:04:12.580 And all of these things can be the same person.

01:04:15.820 And it wasn't long after that, that I got an email, um, from a relative of his very close

01:04:22.840 relative of his.

01:04:24.540 And she emailed me and said, I got this, your email from so-and-so.

01:04:29.520 And I just want to tell you, I believe you.

01:04:31.820 I believe all of the things that he did to you because he was that person.

01:04:38.500 He was very cool.

01:04:40.340 And I experienced it and it, it made up for the, for never getting that apology from him

01:04:48.080 to hear from somebody very close to him that gave me the acknowledgement that, that he treated

01:04:56.000 me terribly.

01:04:57.200 So I was grateful.

01:04:58.520 I was grateful for that.

01:04:59.520 The fact that this can still bring you to tears 20 years after it happened is why Sean

01:05:07.160 says, or he used to say, God help Don Imus if I ever see him in the street, you know,

01:05:13.320 like he hurt you in a particularly vicious way.

01:05:17.520 And it's bullying.

01:05:18.880 I mean, that's what he bullied you and, and bullying, you know, it does have a real effect

01:05:24.960 and it's, it, it can make you stronger for sure, but it doesn't mean it is incredibly painful

01:05:30.080 to go through.

01:05:32.120 Absolutely.

01:05:32.960 Even, you know, even in my mid thirties.

01:05:36.160 Um, but I will say also on the mostly sunny side, if it wasn't for the Imus job, I would

01:05:43.200 have never met Sean.

01:05:44.240 I would have never had my beautiful children.

01:05:46.880 Um, so I am grateful for that opportunity and I am grateful that I got that job, um, because

01:05:54.520 it did lead me to more beautiful destinations, you know?

01:05:58.140 So, well, well, and that, but of course, is it ironic?

01:06:02.500 I'm not sure if that's the right word.

01:06:04.180 You, you were rescued from your Imus job by Roger Ailes who, you know, can I just set this

01:06:11.000 up because I think by this point in, in our society, most people know that Roger Ailes

01:06:16.800 was the CEO and founder of Fox news and that he was, he was, his career ended at Fox after

01:06:23.300 an incredibly, incredibly successful run by a group of women there who, who spoke up about

01:06:28.880 his sexual harassment of them.

01:06:31.080 And I think most people understand that Gretchen Carlson was the person to file a lawsuit that

01:06:35.720 got that rolling that I stood up and supported the notion basically by telling my own story.

01:06:43.220 Um, but I think less people know what an important role in that you played and even just saying

01:06:49.440 important role, I paused a little because it brings up so many feelings for people.

01:06:54.380 I know like the Me Too movement, which I don't, this was before the Me Too movement.

01:06:58.720 Um, it's gone to such a strange place where people, it's just, it's turned into, it turned

01:07:04.140 a little witch hunty that I don't really want to even associate this experience with where

01:07:10.320 that movement wound up.

01:07:11.860 I thought it did a lot of good for a while and now it's just different.

01:07:15.560 Um, but what you did, what you did was incredibly brave when Roger was under fire.

01:07:25.980 I always tell people like for a long time, I wasn't allowed to talk about your role in it

01:07:29.820 because you didn't want it public and I understood that and I didn't want my role public either.

01:07:35.040 Uh, it was right to drudge and I still don't know by whom I, to this moment, I have three

01:07:39.920 suspects, but I don't know who, who did it.

01:07:42.520 Um, but you've managed to dodge that bullet and I wasn't going to out you obviously, but

01:07:47.160 I always kind of wanted to because people are like, Oh, you know, women, mostly women would

01:07:53.060 say to me, Oh, you're very brave, you know, very brave.

01:07:54.680 And I'm like, it's not about me.

01:07:57.100 It's about people like my friend who didn't have power, who did not have money in the bank,

01:08:02.980 who might've been married to a firefighter, who risked everything.

01:08:08.660 I just want the audience to know Janice Dean, she's, she's the weather woman.

01:08:12.240 She, we haven't even gotten into the fact that not long before the Roger Ailes thing happened

01:08:16.620 a couple of years earlier, uh, she'd been diagnosed with MS.

01:08:19.700 And we're talking about lesions on your brain a couple of years prior to this and your health

01:08:25.220 insurance and your babes.

01:08:26.940 And you already have worries about Sean having spent so much time at ground zero and what

01:08:31.320 health effects this may have.

01:08:32.820 You're dealing with all of that.

01:08:35.160 Roger, you got, you know, he's your boss.

01:08:38.300 He's going to keep you employed.

01:08:39.340 That's one thing about Fox.

01:08:40.140 They very rarely fire you.

01:08:42.100 Um, you have health insurance, like you have a steady situation there.

01:08:45.900 And as we talked about earlier, it is very family, like in large part, you know, there's

01:08:50.440 a lot of great people there who we both loved.

01:08:53.080 And the question gets asked because of Gretchen's lawsuit.

01:08:57.920 Could he be this thing?

01:09:00.020 Could, could this be a man who is abusing his power and abusing his staff and hurting people?

01:09:08.600 And the vast majority of people said, I'm not touching this, right?

01:09:13.180 Like, I mean, I still think we know people that it did happen to, we ultimately would

01:09:17.060 find out later who did not come forward because it was scary.

01:09:20.420 It was damn scary.

01:09:21.840 But you know who did?

01:09:23.640 Janice Dean, the meteorologist who damn well needed that job and that insurance.

01:09:30.120 And I will never forget Janice the night before you went in to talk to Paul Weiss, how scared

01:09:36.760 you were.

01:09:37.420 You, you had a panic attack.

01:09:38.720 You broke out in hives.

01:09:39.640 It was, you, but you went, you did it.

01:09:43.900 You went in there the next day.

01:09:46.420 And I think, I do believe as difficult as that situation was and as complicated as it

01:09:52.340 was and the, and the, the love we also felt for Roger.

01:09:55.260 I mean, at the same time as it was so hard, I still think that day and that experience

01:10:01.180 and what you did changed the world.

01:10:04.340 I really believe that.

01:10:07.760 I think it saved a lot of women.

01:10:12.500 We were in it together.

01:10:14.380 I mean, that's how I thought of it is, but yes, there, before I went into Paul Weiss,

01:10:20.320 I remember it well.

01:10:21.460 It was, we make a funny situation out of it because I was riding the Long Island Railroad

01:10:27.000 home and I, you know, thought again about it.

01:10:31.780 I, I was like, I can't do this.

01:10:33.340 I'm too worried.

01:10:34.200 I'm worried about my family.

01:10:35.320 I'm worried about my kids.

01:10:36.200 I actually thought we, I was going to be fired.

01:10:38.440 Like I thought Roger's never going to go.

01:10:40.820 It's never going to happen.

01:10:42.320 Gretchen's never going to go.

01:10:43.280 None of us believed he was going to get fired.

01:10:44.380 No way.

01:10:44.640 None of us believed it.

01:10:46.100 And I remember being on the Long Island Railroad and saying, nope, I just can't do it.

01:10:50.220 I can't risk it.

01:10:50.940 I can't risk my, my kids and, and all of the things that you said.

01:10:54.660 Um, and I got home and I said to Sean, I was like, I, I, I can't go in there.

01:11:00.920 I can't tell them.

01:11:01.880 I I'm, I'm too afraid, Sean.

01:11:03.580 I'm too afraid.

01:11:04.160 He's going to find out.

01:11:05.020 I'm going to be fired.

01:11:06.240 And it was Sean, you know, Sean, who is so steadfast.

01:11:11.140 He just looked at me and he said, you have to do it.

01:11:14.740 Well, we'll deal with whatever happens.

01:11:17.480 You have to go in and do it.

01:11:19.480 And that was the first night I've ever had a panic attack.

01:11:22.400 And, uh, I, I mean, I did, I broke out and I've got pictures cause I've, I've never had

01:11:27.600 anything like that happen before.

01:11:29.660 Um, and I remember calling you and at like 12 o'clock midnight and, and just hearing your

01:11:34.780 voice and just saying, you know what, we're on the side of the angels.

01:11:39.600 If he's not guilty as you know, then, you know, he has nothing to fear, but you have to go in

01:11:46.200 and tell your story.

01:11:47.580 You have to, and don't ever ride the long Island railroad again, because it just makes you

01:11:52.220 depressed.

01:11:53.260 The long Island railroad is depressing.

01:11:57.260 Well, you said, I'll pay for your car.

01:12:00.680 Do you need a car service?

01:12:02.740 You're not riding the train in to go talk to Paul Weiss.

01:12:06.320 No car service need to go in style.

01:12:09.520 So we, we got to sort of the middle of the story before we gave you the beginning of the

01:12:13.540 story, which is back after she left IMAS.

01:12:16.200 And so Janice winds up getting an opportunity to interview with Fox news.

01:12:20.780 And as you understand from the story, she told a welcome opportunity, you know, not only,

01:12:25.680 not only is it obviously a bigger job, but she wanted to get out and, um, Fox news, you

01:12:31.240 know, was number one and it was a great chance.

01:12:34.340 And she met Roger and ultimately he did hire her and she's had a great career there, but

01:12:39.360 it was a bit of a bumpy beginning.

01:12:43.000 And, and this, we didn't, I didn't know this story about her until I'd known her for years.

01:12:47.080 So like one day we wound up sharing stories, but just tell them what happened between you

01:12:50.860 and Roger.

01:12:52.540 So the first meeting was in his office.

01:12:55.880 And again, it was one of those situations where, you know, he was like, Oh, I hear you

01:13:00.280 on IMAS.

01:13:00.820 You sound kind of like a naughty girl.

01:13:02.220 Cause I mean, I did, I did the scum report and it was, you know, it had to be pretty

01:13:06.600 sometimes provocative.

01:13:08.760 And, you know, so he used that as sort of like the intro of art, you know, are you a

01:13:13.120 naughty girl?

01:13:13.680 You certainly sound like it.

01:13:14.940 And I was like, yeah, no, I'm actually a good actress.

01:13:18.320 Uh, but I would tell, I told him, I was like, listen, he's really cruel and I'm going

01:13:24.760 to be flat out honest.

01:13:25.660 I need to find another job because otherwise I have to, I have to move.

01:13:29.160 I can't, I will not do this job anymore.

01:13:32.460 Um, and so it was, it was fine.

01:13:34.860 It was a fine meeting.

01:13:35.640 He again, asked me about school.

01:13:37.260 I don't think, you know, he never asked me what my politics were.

01:13:40.080 He did ask me, you know, have you heard about me?

01:13:42.900 Like, what have you learned about Fox news?

01:13:44.320 And I remember reading an article, a long article, um, about Roger that, that had been

01:13:51.320 out at the time.

01:13:52.240 So I had, you know, I educated myself on him and this empire that he had built.

01:13:56.760 So I was able to ask that, you know, answer those questions and amazing.

01:14:00.420 What an amazing job, you know, from a ditch digger in Ohio to, you know, the most powerful

01:14:04.560 name in cable news.

01:14:06.280 And so it was fine.

01:14:07.680 That's what the magazines had.

01:14:08.780 They had him on the cover with the caption, the most powerful man in news.

01:14:13.560 Yes.

01:14:13.820 So you got to, you got to picture Janice and then soon, I don't know if it was before or

01:14:18.360 after, but me in there as young cub reporters across from not just the CEO and chairman and

01:14:24.280 founder of Fox, which is number one, but literally the most powerful man in all of news that IE

01:14:32.580 not someone who you want to cross or get on the wrong side of.

01:14:36.320 Go ahead.

01:14:36.800 Absolutely.

01:14:37.820 And listen, he was very charming and bawdy and funny.

01:14:41.100 And, um, you know, there is, there was something about him that was, you know, that, uh, very,

01:14:47.120 you know, and, and father-like as well, all of those things.

01:14:50.200 And as we said, neither one of us is somebody who's, I mean, I'm bawdy too.

01:14:53.800 I don't, that doesn't bother me at all.

01:14:55.000 I actually find it funny most of the time.

01:14:56.900 Like I, I'm not in no way are you or it's hard to say neither you nor I am uptight in

01:15:04.920 any way.

01:15:06.160 Right.

01:15:06.400 And you have to understand that too, being in this business, I mean, I was coming from

01:15:11.220 the Imus job, but I had, I had dealt with sexual harassment my whole career.

01:15:15.700 I mean, truly like in, in varying degrees, you're walking this weird line of like laughing

01:15:21.540 at these crazy jokes and is he like hitting on me and he's, he's my boss.

01:15:27.140 And how do I, you know, so I already had like some, you know, I, I, I'd experienced something

01:15:33.080 like this before.

01:15:34.060 And I always had, it's like, it's another old guy trying to hit on me.

01:15:37.240 Absolutely.

01:15:38.440 Absolutely.

01:15:39.220 So, but at the time I also had Sean, so I had a boyfriend, you know, I, I was, I was

01:15:43.700 able to pull the boyfriend card.

01:15:46.540 And, um, so that there was that interview.

01:15:49.720 Then the second time was, I got a call from his secretary saying, Mr. Ailes would like

01:15:55.840 to meet you in the restaurant bar area of the Renaissance hotel in Times Square.

01:16:03.000 I was like, okay, that's a little bizarre.

01:16:06.800 I talked to the, my agent at the time who was a female and she's like, oh, he just wants

01:16:10.380 to meet you off campus.

01:16:11.580 No biggie.

01:16:14.420 So I, uh, you know, and at the time, I don't know, I think you and I've talked about

01:16:19.640 this, but at the time I wore like business suits all the time.

01:16:22.800 Like, like, you know, the, the boxy Hillary Clinton.

01:16:25.980 We were at our frumpiest.

01:16:27.500 Wouldn't you say?

01:16:28.120 We hadn't been foxified yet.

01:16:29.820 We were at our frumpiest.

01:16:30.700 We didn't know how to dress.

01:16:31.460 We didn't know how to do our makeup.

01:16:32.880 It was like.

01:16:33.740 I had like, you know, my hair was, uh, anyway, it, I was not the most, you know, I, I think

01:16:39.980 you could tell that I had like, you know, some, some potential.

01:16:43.020 I went to the meeting and he was, he, he got there and we sat at a table and he told

01:16:47.800 me, order wine, you know, do you want to drink?

01:16:50.020 And I was like, okay, I, I guess, I guess I'll have a glass of wine.

01:16:54.380 And he ordered the same.

01:16:56.100 And he, and I remember him asking me how I was doing.

01:16:58.320 And if I had, was thinking about him, did, you know, not about a job, but was I thinking

01:17:03.100 about Roger?

01:17:04.500 Um, and I was like, uh, well, I was thinking that you might be a good boss someday, you know,

01:17:10.240 like I was just, I remember you told me this later when he was like, I need to know how

01:17:15.000 you see me.

01:17:16.120 How do you see me?

01:17:16.960 And you were like, like a teacher, like, like a mentor, like, like a father figure.

01:17:24.340 That's exactly what was happening.

01:17:25.780 Meanwhile, I'm like, you know, nervously sipping wine.

01:17:29.600 Uh, and, but here's a note.

01:17:31.140 Here's like a pro tip for the men out there.

01:17:33.220 If you're trying to hit on somebody and you ask her that question and she says something

01:17:35.740 about father or bail, it's not right.

01:17:39.500 Right.

01:17:40.360 Didn't knock on another door.

01:17:41.720 No.

01:17:42.220 And, and at that point I was like, there's no way I'm getting this job, you know, like

01:17:45.740 whatever.

01:17:46.800 Right.

01:17:46.920 This is a, come on, this is not an interview, but he did it in a way that it was like a

01:17:51.500 testing thing.

01:17:52.360 Like he was testing me, like how, you know, how, how far can I take this?

01:17:56.660 It, you know, without her, like, you know, saying something that's going to like shoot

01:18:00.620 me down type of thing.

01:18:02.020 Um, but then all of a sudden he got, he would get business like again and say, well, you know,

01:18:05.740 I've been thinking about you and I think you'd be great on television.

01:18:09.440 Um, you know, I'll get back to you.

01:18:11.380 I gotta, I gotta get out of here.

01:18:12.560 And I remember him saying something like, we don't want anybody seeing us together.

01:18:16.340 And I was like, okay.

01:18:17.540 So he left and, uh, and I, I thought to myself, I'm going to have to move back to Canada.

01:18:23.660 Like I can't work with I'm this, I'm not going to get this job.

01:18:27.320 And I got a call maybe three or four days later, again, secretary calls me, it's Mr.

01:18:32.780 Ailes on the phone.

01:18:33.660 He would like to speak with you.

01:18:34.580 And I, I was, I, and I remember where I was, Megan, I was right in the living, you

01:18:38.160 know, in the living room, my little tiny apartment in Queens.

01:18:41.360 And he gets on the phone and he was like, Janice Dean.

01:18:45.440 And I was like, hello, Mr.

01:18:47.160 Ailes.

01:18:47.600 And he was like, so what's going on?

01:18:51.340 You know?

01:18:51.620 And I just, Oh, how's I miss?

01:18:53.260 And I said, Oh, you know, I'm, I'm one step away of like losing my mind and, and I have

01:18:58.020 to get out of that job.

01:18:58.940 And then, you know, it was sort of this quiet period.

01:19:01.120 And he was like, so I've been wondering like how you are at phone sex.

01:19:06.660 And I was like, I'm terrible.

01:19:10.760 I'm terrible at phone sex.

01:19:14.300 This is my favorite part of the whole story.

01:19:16.720 I mean, listen, we are making, I know we're making a joke out of this.

01:19:20.900 And at the time, at the time I went, I remember at the time going, Oh my gosh, I wish I was

01:19:24.960 recording this.

01:19:25.660 This is crazy.

01:19:26.620 What is this person asking me?

01:19:29.320 And, and, and I said that I was like, I was terrible.

01:19:31.680 He's like, I don't believe that.

01:19:33.060 I don't believe that for a second.

01:19:34.300 So pretend, you know, I'm your boyfriend.

01:19:36.020 Like, how would you talk to your boyfriend?

01:19:37.740 You have a boyfriend, right?

01:19:38.680 Like, how would you talk to him if, you know, like you were like wearing blah, blah, blah.

01:19:41.920 And I was just like, um, you know what, Mr. Ailes, this is not a one 900 number.

01:19:46.400 Uh, uh, but you know, but thank, thanks for calling type of thing.

01:19:49.980 And then, you know, then he kind of snapped out of it and he was like, so have you ever

01:19:54.180 done the weather before?

01:19:55.580 Because I'm looking for a weather person and talk to your, talk to your agent.

01:19:59.680 So, you know, that was sort of like, that was the way it was, you know?

01:20:04.840 And I, and I, I took the job and people like, why did you take that job?

01:20:08.460 And I'm like, well, I had another boss who was basically like naming bullets after me.

01:20:13.840 So yes, you should have refused it.

01:20:15.360 And you should have gone over to CVS and interviewed with less moon Vez.

01:20:19.100 Oh, exactly.

01:20:19.960 Or Charlie Rose should have gone.

01:20:21.460 No, you should have gone to NBC and spoken with the executives there who are definitely not

01:20:26.140 rape apologists.

01:20:27.340 What?

01:20:28.160 You could have been from Matt Lauer, Janice.

01:20:30.360 Oh, wait.

01:20:31.980 I know that.

01:20:33.320 I mean, yes, yes.

01:20:35.760 So where are you supposed to go?

01:20:37.060 There was no better place when it came to that.

01:20:38.900 There really wasn't.

01:20:39.660 And I really, I never felt threatened.

01:20:42.740 I certainly was like grossed out and like, but I always felt like I was able to sort of

01:20:46.900 like swat, swat him.

01:20:48.260 I mean, I hate to use that word, but I was able to sort of like, you know, use my sense

01:20:53.100 of humor to get him like back onto the, the, the discussion that I wanted.

01:20:57.400 And, and he did hire me and I, I worked for, you know, I'm still there 17 years later, but

01:21:02.440 there were times when I was first hired, he would see me on TV and then he would call

01:21:05.680 me up to his office.

01:21:07.320 Um, and then I would kind of sit there and he would talk about the shop and then he would

01:21:11.020 get weird.

01:21:11.680 But again, he would always ask me about the boyfriend, like you still dating that boyfriend

01:21:15.760 and I'm yep.

01:21:16.700 Yep.

01:21:17.340 Sean's still around, you know?

01:21:18.680 So yeah.

01:21:19.380 The funny thing that people don't know is you didn't even really want to marry Sean.

01:21:22.160 You just did it as a block.

01:21:25.080 That's right.

01:21:26.960 Um, so, you know, but that, that's kind of my story where they're inappropriate comments.

01:21:33.160 Yes.

01:21:33.420 Of course.

01:21:33.860 When I went up to the office, did he ask me to spin?

01:21:36.720 Yes.

01:21:37.360 Unfortunately, it was sort of like, let me, he didn't, he never said spin.

01:21:40.760 He would just say, let me see you.

01:21:42.440 Like, let me see you, you know?

01:21:44.340 And I remember the first time I was on air Megan and I wore like a business suit and the

01:21:51.520 phone call came like 30 seconds later.

01:21:53.680 Yeah.

01:21:54.680 Burn that business suit.

01:21:56.740 That reminds me of, um, when I tried to dye my hair brown, I, I had gotten a divorce with

01:22:01.840 my first husband and I was going through one of those like sort of skin shedding moments

01:22:05.440 where it's like, okay, I'm the new me.

01:22:06.920 And I, I cut my hair short and I dyed it brown and I'll never forget Brit Hume coming into

01:22:11.580 the office.

01:22:11.960 And he said, I have a message from Mr. Ailes.

01:22:14.340 He hired a blonde and he wants a blonde.

01:22:17.300 Okay.

01:22:18.240 Back to blonde.

01:22:19.020 I went and I actually checked my contract because of course I'm a lawyer and it did say that

01:22:23.160 he had the right to tell me, um, no, if I wanted to make any major changes to my look.

01:22:28.960 And so he actually had the legal right to tell me that.

01:22:31.600 And then I wound up doing all this research on like how much control they could have over

01:22:35.680 me in terms of what I wore.

01:22:36.980 Although I will say everybody thinks that Fox has this, uh, no pants.

01:22:41.220 Well, that doesn't sound right.

01:22:43.220 Mandate.

01:22:43.660 No pants, no pants allowed.

01:22:46.140 It's no pants day.

01:22:49.060 That didn't come out right.

01:22:50.900 But you know that you're not allowed to wear pants as a woman.

01:22:53.140 You have to wear a skirt or a short or shorts.

01:22:55.340 Never.

01:22:55.820 In my experience, I don't know.

01:22:57.400 I don't know somebody to whom that has happened, but, um, I'm not saying it's impossible, but

01:23:01.200 never.

01:23:02.020 And I mean, I feel like I would have been one of the women who they would have said that

01:23:05.280 to, uh, I wasn't always powerful.

01:23:07.360 I started off very not powerful and, um, never.

01:23:10.960 I wore pants all the time.

01:23:12.240 Nobody ever called me or said anything about it.

01:23:14.400 Now they, they didn't want you to wear too many dark colors, but that was just because

01:23:17.840 they wanted your clothes to sort of pop on the air.

01:23:20.460 Right.

01:23:20.980 But, um, yeah, it's, there are a lot of rumors about Fox that aren't true.

01:23:25.160 So this was 2006, right?

01:23:28.260 That, that you did, what was the year?

01:23:29.840 2003.

01:23:31.020 So this was 2003, actually.

01:23:32.880 I interviewed, it was, it was this time, you know, 18 years ago, three, 17 years ago.

01:23:39.720 Yep.

01:23:40.300 Oh, wow.

01:23:41.580 So I didn't know that.

01:23:43.640 So I got hired by Fox in 2004, that it was August of 2004.

01:23:48.060 And, um, yeah, I didn't have anything like that happened to me on my like interview with

01:23:55.340 him.

01:23:55.600 I remember he did make one inappropriate comment about, he asked me what I had done

01:23:59.520 that weekend.

01:24:00.200 And I told him I went to the bar hogs and heifers in New York with some friends.

01:24:04.400 And that's the bar that they based that movie coyote ugly on where all the girls dance on

01:24:09.180 the, on the bar.

01:24:09.800 And he, he said, um, did you take off your top and throw your bra against the wall, against

01:24:17.700 the wall?

01:24:18.080 Something like that.

01:24:18.640 I can't remember how he phrased it.

01:24:20.060 And I just got out of bounds and I was like, no, but I did have a Pabst blue ribbon in a

01:24:24.080 can.

01:24:24.980 So it was kind of like that, right?

01:24:26.380 We're like, yeah, you, you feel it, right?

01:24:27.860 Like he throws you something that's definitely got an R rating on it and you respond with a

01:24:33.240 PG, right?

01:24:34.080 Like that's kind of how it'd go RPG RPG.

01:24:37.380 And, um, and I think like you said, he was testing, like, is she, is she cool?

01:24:43.740 That's kind of how I saw it initially.

01:24:45.040 Like, is she cool?

01:24:45.840 Is she uptight?

01:24:46.460 Is she going to be somebody, you know, they say that his philosophy was, I want to hire,

01:24:50.600 uh, men who I want to have a beer with and women who I want to sleep with that, like,

01:24:55.840 like it or not, that's what they said Roger was looking for in people he put on the air.

01:24:59.820 And I do think that's just sort of a crass way of boiling down to, he wanted to track

01:25:04.060 women who he thought people would like, and he wanted decent guys who didn't take themselves

01:25:09.900 too seriously.

01:25:10.460 Like that is just a short form way of Roger's approach to the news.

01:25:15.300 And guess what?

01:25:15.880 It worked.

01:25:17.080 Um, so I had a similar thing, you know, but then after I got there, I was down in the DC

01:25:22.240 bureau for my first two years.

01:25:23.540 And so I didn't really have to see him much, but he just kept calling me up there.

01:25:26.100 It wasn't until the like 2005 is when things really got bad and it just ramped up to a level

01:25:33.400 that was unignorable and incredibly uncomfortable.

01:25:37.640 And, um, you know, so all of which I detailed in my journals, which I wound up giving to giving

01:25:42.440 to Paul Weiss.

01:25:43.160 I mean, I had it all written down.

01:25:44.540 I was a lawyer after all, I understood very well what was happening and that I should be

01:25:48.500 documenting it just in case there was a problem.

01:25:51.120 You know, I did not see him at the time as a serial harasser.

01:25:54.440 I saw him as somebody who wanted to have an affair with me.

01:25:57.040 And, but I was worried because I knew I was not going to have an affair with him.

01:26:02.000 And as you know, you don't, the last thing you want to do is reject a man, any man who

01:26:09.200 has power over you.

01:26:10.980 It's not a good situation for a woman to be in.

01:26:13.100 Every man who gets rejected by a woman feels some resentment toward her usually.

01:26:16.480 And you really don't want that with your boss.

01:26:19.980 And, uh, you know, I, I was doing well at Fox and I didn't want him to change the stakes

01:26:24.420 of my doing well.

01:26:25.380 I just wanted to be judged by the reporting.

01:26:27.880 Uh, and it was very clear to me.

01:26:29.380 He was really trying to get me into this other lane with really inappropriate comments, really

01:26:32.820 on the nose to really on the nose.

01:26:35.120 I mean, I remember he told me, I won't name the anchor, but she was very famous at the

01:26:38.660 time.

01:26:38.940 And she said, he said, um, she got to the top by sleeping with her boss.

01:26:42.940 You should be more like her.

01:26:44.120 Oh, it's like, okay, that's a little on the nose.

01:26:48.220 And it just went, went on and on.

01:26:49.800 And then, you know, as has now been documented, I wrote about it in my book.

01:26:52.280 He ultimately tried to make out with me, um, three times in his office.

01:26:57.200 I got away.

01:26:57.820 He grabbed me again.

01:26:59.660 Um, it wasn't like grab like assault, you know, it was just like trying to have me.

01:27:04.600 I got away and I got over to the front door and I got away a third time.

01:27:08.680 He tried a third time.

01:27:09.520 And then he looked at me and said, when is your contract up?

01:27:12.460 Um, and I was like, holy shit.

01:27:17.220 And I got out of there and I called my lawyer and said, this is what just happened to me.

01:27:24.260 And he opened up a case file just so that it would be in the, the conflict log at Jones

01:27:30.080 Day, which was the law firm I had worked for.

01:27:31.660 And, um, I was on pins and needles for so many months thereafter, you know, I went, I

01:27:36.620 discussed it with a, with a, with a supervisor whom I've never named.

01:27:41.880 Um, and I was told just ignore him.

01:27:44.780 You know, he's a, he's an unhappily married guy and he's going through a thing and just

01:27:49.520 stay, if you stay away from him, it'll go away.

01:27:52.000 And I was like, great, that's all I want.

01:27:55.380 I didn't want to make a federal case out of it.

01:27:57.160 I just wanted to go back to where I'd been before the nonsense, you know, being judged

01:28:01.520 on my professional stuff.

01:28:03.620 And it worked, you know, I dodged his calls.

01:28:06.620 I was sitting next to major Garrett in my office.

01:28:08.420 We shared an office and, and I'm like a first or second year reporter.

01:28:12.860 And my phone keeps lighting up and you can see the name of the person calling you on

01:28:16.080 the display.

01:28:16.820 And it keeps saying, Roger Ailes, Roger Ailes.

01:28:19.140 And major's looking at me like, what the hell?

01:28:21.720 I'm like, oh, so I told major all about it.

01:28:24.020 He was actually very supportive and, um, helped me navigate it.

01:28:28.100 And I also told him about, you know, the big sort of culmination when he tried to then

01:28:33.380 kiss and make out.

01:28:34.700 And, and he gave me some good advice and he was not the supervisor who I refer to, but

01:28:39.700 he wasn't my supervisor.

01:28:40.620 He was my friend and my office mate.

01:28:42.180 But anyway, it wasn't until, he was horrified, but J.D., he had seen a lot of that stuff

01:28:50.020 with me.

01:28:50.360 Roger was not the only one to behave like that.

01:28:54.280 You know, I, I wrote my book about Arlen Specter, again, God rest his soul, who was like

01:28:58.960 really inappropriate with me.

01:29:00.980 And, uh, he, he said things like, Megan, after I survived cancer, you're the one who gave me

01:29:08.740 my libido back.

01:29:10.480 Oh, gross.

01:29:12.180 And more, more than that.

01:29:13.880 He asked me out for drinks many, many times asked to show me his little apartment that

01:29:18.120 he, I'm like, no, thank you, Senator.

01:29:20.020 And, but this guy was chairman of the judiciary committee and I was covering the Supreme Court.

01:29:24.080 So I needed a relationship with him.

01:29:25.700 I couldn't, it was one another thing.

01:29:26.900 Like, you don't want to reject him, but I am not going to his little apartment.

01:29:29.960 He was telling me about how it was like a bomb shelter.

01:29:32.540 He had like enough Campbell's soup in there to last him two years.

01:29:35.060 And he wanted to show me a soup.

01:29:36.040 Oh, that's sexy.

01:29:37.160 That's sexy.

01:29:39.060 J.D., these guys got to work on their act.

01:29:42.400 Oh my God.

01:29:42.920 Let me show you my soup.

01:29:44.640 Now that I've gotten my post-cancer libido back.

01:29:47.520 Oh, well, at a time of COVID, I mean, that might be attractive now.

01:29:52.740 No, but here's the funny thing about Major.

01:29:54.240 So he goes, I did go see Arlen Specter in the Capitol building.

01:29:59.380 He invited me to have lunch in the Senate private dining room.

01:30:02.880 And I was like, well, that sounds fancy.

01:30:04.420 It's like something I should do.

01:30:06.040 So I look at Major and I'm like, this seems like a thing, right?

01:30:08.840 Like, this seems kind of like a good invitation.

01:30:11.240 And he looked at me with this, like, like one of those, like, are you kidding me faces?

01:30:15.980 And he goes, 17 years I've been covering Capitol Hill.

01:30:20.820 Not once have I been invited to the Senate private dining room.

01:30:24.440 Oh, Major.

01:30:26.180 Oh, well.

01:30:26.960 So I went.

01:30:28.320 I got over there.

01:30:28.960 Next thing I know, Specter's got me in something called his hideaway office, which they give to

01:30:33.100 the most important senators there, you know, like if you're head of the chairman of the

01:30:37.620 Judiciary Committee or whatever.

01:30:39.440 And he keeps in.

01:30:41.260 He keeps like it's like three hours later and he hasn't left me.

01:30:44.380 I'm like, oh, my God, I got to get out of here.

01:30:45.980 How do I get out of here?

01:30:47.000 So we had to go vote.

01:30:48.520 And I texted Major like, oh, my God, he's got me in something called his hideaway.

01:30:51.820 What should I do?

01:30:52.360 And Major's like, get out.

01:30:54.440 Get out now.

01:30:56.200 Run.

01:30:56.760 That is just for towel snapping rights.

01:30:58.900 I'm like, I don't know what that is, but it sounds bad.

01:31:01.160 So I got out of there.

01:31:03.380 My point is simply like Major had sort of lived through a bunch of these with me where he's

01:31:07.340 like, Jesus, disgusting old men are everywhere.

01:31:11.100 He was a good guy.

01:31:13.420 So yada, yada, yada.

01:31:14.680 I mean, that's all just the setup for when you and I had talked about like our experiences

01:31:19.480 with Roger, but we we did not know other harassment victims.

01:31:24.580 People now look back and say, like, why don't you come forward?

01:31:27.800 I'm like, OK, so first of all, I told the supervisor.

01:31:30.140 Right.

01:31:30.540 Like, what more would you have me do?

01:31:32.380 It wasn't exactly like something I could go report to human resources like that.

01:31:36.900 They work for him.

01:31:37.900 And it wasn't like something I could bring to the CEO who was him.

01:31:42.260 And so.

01:31:44.960 So then Gretchen filed a lawsuit and you and I, I'll never forget the day we saw that

01:31:50.400 lawsuit come through.

01:31:51.680 I know.

01:31:52.620 I know.

01:31:53.120 Right.

01:31:53.400 It was.

01:31:54.340 Yeah, it was jaw dropping because I had gotten to know Gretchen over the years and we had,

01:31:59.920 you know, I would say we were, you know, friends and I had told her about what had happened

01:32:07.360 with Roger.

01:32:07.960 I remember the dinner that I was at with a makeup artist and Gretchen and we were talking

01:32:12.700 about Roger and and I felt comfortable enough to tell her what had happened.

01:32:17.240 And she was very interested in the story, so much so that she asked me a few times to tell

01:32:23.660 her about it.

01:32:24.360 And then she would ask me if I knew anybody else.

01:32:26.860 And I remember specifically her asking, did it happen to Megyn Kelly?

01:32:30.240 And I would never betray you.

01:32:32.640 I just said, I'm not sure.

01:32:35.540 So and to that end, I also had a good enough relationship with her that she never told me

01:32:43.840 she had issues with Roger.

01:32:45.080 We would all get called to his office if there was a problem.

01:32:47.860 And I remember at the time that, you know, she had gotten the one o'clock show and the

01:32:51.560 ratings weren't good.

01:32:52.320 So I knew that she was going up to his office a lot.

01:32:54.480 And, you know, I'm sure he could be really mean, like really mean.

01:32:58.860 But she had never told me, you know, after I had shared my story, she had never said that

01:33:04.300 she was harassed by him.

01:33:05.980 So that's why I we were both shocked that well, they didn't have a good relationship

01:33:11.900 really from the time he moved her off Fox and Friends because he didn't think she was

01:33:16.840 good in that role.

01:33:17.560 And he had said that to me a few times privately.

01:33:19.820 He didn't he did not like her on that show.

01:33:21.440 He thought she was too stiff.

01:33:24.480 They did not have a good relationship.

01:33:26.080 And she she had she gave an interview to some like Connecticut home magazine one time and

01:33:33.220 got completely sandbagged like the reporter was really just such a jerk.

01:33:37.660 I remember reading it being like, oh, I hate this reporter.

01:33:39.680 They completely it was like a bait and switch.

01:33:42.120 I thought you were talking about like her beautiful home.

01:33:43.980 And it was like, you suck.

01:33:45.160 And everybody at Fox sucks.

01:33:46.340 And tell me more why everyone sucks.

01:33:48.000 And she was pissed.

01:33:49.120 And she blamed it on him.

01:33:51.560 And I just know they had this huge fight where like.

01:33:54.820 I can't remember how the F-bomb was used, but like either she told him to fuck off or he

01:33:59.120 told her to fuck off or something.

01:34:00.480 It just ended with an F-bomb.

01:34:01.940 And I remember being like, oh, that's not good.

01:34:04.620 And she was already mad.

01:34:05.940 She was on the one o'clock or whatever it was, two o'clock instead of the morning show.

01:34:09.740 And I don't know, from the outside, we all just thought it's not going well for her here.

01:34:15.440 And that and it can't go well for you there if you don't get along with Roger.

01:34:18.880 And, you know, now she says it's because she wouldn't sleep with a guy and apparently has

01:34:24.340 tapes of him saying inappropriate things, which, you know, we all could have.

01:34:28.080 He did.

01:34:28.300 He did.

01:34:28.800 So many things.

01:34:30.000 Yeah.

01:34:30.360 Yeah.

01:34:30.600 Well, that's the thing is it's like, I don't know.

01:34:33.120 We just didn't.

01:34:34.040 When she filed that lawsuit, I think most of us were like, not sure, because she got fired.

01:34:40.020 She hadn't been getting along with him.

01:34:41.560 She hadn't been succeeding in terms of the ratings at all in that afternoon show, although

01:34:45.800 she claimed she had been.

01:34:47.080 But the truth is she hadn't.

01:34:48.940 And we were skeptical.

01:34:51.660 Right.

01:34:51.960 It was like and we and we loved Roger.

01:34:55.340 Like you and I had both gotten past those incidents and had been had many others, you

01:35:00.540 know, by then it was like, you know, it wasn't that unusual.

01:35:02.460 So and by the way, he never retaliated against me at all for not going along with it at all.

01:35:08.840 Never.

01:35:09.800 And most of the women I've now and I've now talked to about it have said the same, that

01:35:14.320 he wasn't a retaliator, but it wasn't true in all cases.

01:35:17.100 That's I'm not trying to disparage Gretchen.

01:35:18.860 I'm just trying to tell the audience it was confusing when she first filed a lawsuit because

01:35:22.620 we were much more aligned with him than we were with her.

01:35:25.320 It was jaw dropping.

01:35:26.360 Every instinct was to defend him and not.

01:35:28.800 Yes, absolutely.

01:35:30.540 Um, but then because you and I knew our stories there, of course, we were like, well, you

01:35:37.420 know what?

01:35:37.920 If it's happened to us, I wonder if it's happened to other people.

01:35:42.520 Um, and I had heard stories over the years of, you know, situations.

01:35:46.500 I was an office mate with someone that, you know, would go up to his office and she would

01:35:51.740 be really upset coming, you know, downstairs.

01:35:54.900 And she never told me why, you know, there are all these things that I, over the years,

01:35:59.140 I want to talk to you about that.

01:36:00.660 Can I, can we talk about that?

01:36:01.820 We don't, we don't have to name the person, but this is one of the things that confuses

01:36:04.960 me when I still, when I look back on the Fox era, I remember this person, you called

01:36:10.840 me after she came back to your shared office and she was in tears and you're like, she just

01:36:15.860 came from a meeting with him.

01:36:16.940 And I was like, Janice, you got to find out why she was in tears.

01:36:20.620 Like, is he doing it to other people?

01:36:23.500 Like, is there a thing that we should know about?

01:36:26.120 And you did you, to your credit, you went to her and you were like, did something happen?

01:36:31.260 And she totally denied it and was like, absolutely not.

01:36:36.320 He's like, he's saying something about my career that I'm unhappy with.

01:36:39.400 Like she wanted a show and he wasn't going to give her a show, something like that.

01:36:42.280 And you pressed her and you walked away convinced, you know, okay, it really isn't that.

01:36:47.400 So we were like, okay.

01:36:48.420 And then after Ailes went down and he'd been fired, escorted out of the building, this

01:36:53.940 person called me and I, I didn't really know this person.

01:36:57.100 And I was like, this is it.

01:36:59.460 She's going to tell me that she really was a victim of his.

01:37:03.620 And that when Janice asked her all those years ago, she was lying to Janice.

01:37:08.520 And I remember where I was and I was talking to her and I asked her, I'm like, so did you

01:37:14.280 ever have a thing with it?

01:37:15.460 Was there ever a situation?

01:37:16.440 And she was like, absolutely not.

01:37:18.660 Like, I'm so confused.

01:37:20.400 I don't know what to believe, you know, like by that point I knew what he was.

01:37:24.780 And then, but here's like a post epilogue to the epilogue.

01:37:27.640 I, I recently spoke with somebody else who was like, oh yeah, she was one of his victims.

01:37:31.860 I'm like, what?

01:37:33.420 She was like, yeah, I, I talked to her.

01:37:35.300 So Janice, I mean like the whole, like women were not comfortable talking about this.

01:37:41.960 No, they weren't.

01:37:43.540 They weren't.

01:37:44.220 But like you said, and to this day, had your name not been leaked, I don't think, you know,

01:37:51.060 this is just my personal opinion, has nothing to do with Gretchen.

01:37:53.600 I don't think she would have won because your, your name was leaked.

01:37:58.160 And then that gave other women, uh, the courage to, to share stories.

01:38:04.820 Um, and you know, that's, that's when you and I decided, okay, let's try to, let's try

01:38:10.160 to find out.

01:38:10.820 Let's, you know, let's, let's go undercover and, uh, go door to door, uh, you know, cause

01:38:17.460 I had a good relationship with a lot of these women.

01:38:19.400 I had been there for so long and I would just basically knock on people's doors and say,

01:38:24.300 you know, everybody was freaked out, obviously of what was going on.

01:38:27.880 Um, and the women, of course.

01:38:29.860 And so I would just knock on the door and say, how are you doing?

01:38:33.760 But even before you get to that, I mean, there was an enormous pressure campaign to speak

01:38:38.060 up on his behalf, enormous pressure.

01:38:41.000 And it was direct and it was personal.

01:38:44.240 And in some situations, jobs were threatened.

01:38:47.060 And, you know, I, I look back with forgiveness on the Fox news people who spoke out because

01:38:53.220 they, they, a, didn't believe he was capable of it.

01:38:56.560 Cause you know, there was, there wasn't, if people think it was an open secret at Fox,

01:39:00.820 it wasn't, it wasn't.

01:39:02.620 And B, they love the guy.

01:39:04.300 He had done a lot of good for a lot of us there, helped families with cancer, paid for

01:39:08.500 people's rehabilitation treatments and so on.

01:39:12.040 He gave everybody second chances and then some.

01:39:14.640 And so, and, and see, no one really liked Gretchen.

01:39:17.100 I mean, that's the truth.

01:39:18.200 Um, so I understood why they were defending him, but there was no way, no way I was going

01:39:25.320 to come out and say something that wasn't true.

01:39:27.720 You know, that he's not capable of this or he would never, which is essentially what people

01:39:33.300 were saying.

01:39:34.440 Um, I knew, I knew different.

01:39:36.560 Um, and you know, different and we, that was an incredibly stressful time that I think

01:39:44.340 of all the shit that's gone down in my life over the past few years, Trump and NBC and

01:39:48.740 all this stuff that was the most stressful thing when, when our colleagues were coming

01:39:54.600 out, defending him, Beth Ailes was calling me, trying to get me to come out and defend

01:40:00.680 him.

01:40:01.000 And again, I did feel loyalty, loyalty to him and to Beth.

01:40:04.900 I cared about her.

01:40:05.800 I cared about their family and, and I didn't like Gretchen.

01:40:10.700 So it's like, oh my God.

01:40:13.180 And yet, you know, I couldn't lie.

01:40:18.060 And I, I just, I knew what the right thing was, but doing the right thing is not always

01:40:22.760 easy.

01:40:23.280 That's for sure.

01:40:24.160 It wasn't.

01:40:24.680 It wasn't.

01:40:25.360 Especially like you said, I, I thought I would probably be fired.

01:40:29.020 I really did.

01:40:30.040 I thought he wasn't going to, he wasn't going to go down.

01:40:33.320 Gretchen was not going to get her settlement.

01:40:36.460 And you know, what a, what a leap of faith I'm taking to go in and talk about a suicide

01:40:42.180 mission.

01:40:42.960 Yeah.

01:40:43.420 I mean, and, and, you know, I, I told you about the three times that we're uncomfortable

01:40:47.500 and I've been through some much worse situations.

01:40:51.160 So, you know, to take that risk and, and be like, okay, so this happened like 13 years

01:40:57.460 ago, but it might be a pattern of, um, behavior, you know?

01:41:02.080 So, well, that's where you and I landed, which was, we have no idea how these stories connect

01:41:07.020 or don't connect to other stories that may or may not exist.

01:41:09.660 All we know is we have two pieces that may either be two individual pieces or part of a

01:41:14.140 larger mosaic.

01:41:15.380 We don't know the answer.

01:41:16.700 And that's, that's where you and I were for a while.

01:41:19.880 And we were relieved that they were going to investigate it.

01:41:24.080 Finally, it was like, okay, good.

01:41:25.340 They're bringing in an investigator and they'll get to the bottom of this.

01:41:27.960 And if he's not a serial harasser, then good, this will go away.

01:41:30.600 They'll work it out with Gretchen, whatever happened between the two of them.

01:41:32.920 That's that.

01:41:33.500 But the thing that happened that changed everything, uh, was somebody close to Ailes made the mistake

01:41:40.660 of telling me that they had managed to limit the investigation to only the immediate team

01:41:46.500 that had worked with Gretchen Carlson, which I knew would not include any talent.

01:41:51.880 You would not be called.

01:41:53.200 I would not be called, uh, or anybody else.

01:41:56.600 You know, that was like six people, half of whom were guys and, um, and low level producers

01:42:02.300 who would never have been alone with him.

01:42:03.700 And, you know, you and I talked about this at length, like now what, because it's one

01:42:10.460 thing to be called in by the investigators and tell your story, but it's an, another thing

01:42:16.720 entirely to raise your hand first and, and volunteer to tell the story.

01:42:23.660 I just felt like so much more of a betrayal to be active about it instead of passive.

01:42:28.900 And that, that I just had such a hard time getting over it.

01:42:32.260 And to this day, there are some people there who haven't forgiven me for taking an active

01:42:36.640 role.

01:42:36.920 I mean, I remember somebody very powerful.

01:42:38.980 They were saying to me, I said, I followed my ethical compass.

01:42:42.860 And he said, loyalty is a part of ethics, Megan.

01:42:47.660 And I said, I understand that, but you can be loyal to a child molester.

01:42:53.740 But when you find out he's hurting people, you would betray him.

01:42:58.640 You would betray that loyalty because there's a higher cause.

01:43:01.540 And that's the position I felt I was in.

01:43:04.260 I didn't run and make a federal case out of it when he harassed me.

01:43:07.540 I did not sell him out.

01:43:09.340 I didn't file a lawsuit.

01:43:10.720 I didn't try to, I am woman, hear me roar.

01:43:13.560 That was unheard of, by the way, at the time it was happening to us, unheard of.

01:43:18.680 So I navigated it and I fixed my situation.

01:43:21.500 I went on.

01:43:22.100 Um, but this is different.

01:43:24.620 Now the question is being put directly to me.

01:43:27.680 Are you, are you going to stand up and say what he did or aren't you?

01:43:31.840 Like, are you somebody who's going to have the back of a person you don't particularly

01:43:35.320 love?

01:43:36.580 Um, because she's twisting in the wind right now.

01:43:40.380 And anyway, it was just, you and I talked about it and we talked about, well, what if

01:43:44.500 it's just us too?

01:43:45.460 Like, what if we really aren't part of a mosaic?

01:43:47.520 It sure would be easier if we thought there were others.

01:43:50.080 And like, if he is a serial harasser, there will be.

01:43:53.300 And that's where Janice Dean, you know, that's where like you made all the difference, all

01:43:58.780 the difference.

01:43:59.360 Going back to your earlier comment about how you were in a non-threatening role.

01:44:04.240 You know, you were the meteorologist.

01:44:05.800 That's why everybody would talk to you.

01:44:08.320 You had, prior to this moment, you had great relationships.

01:44:10.960 I had, I had very solid friendships there too, but I think maybe people felt more threatened

01:44:15.380 by me.

01:44:15.780 I was in a sort of more powerful role and most people just kind of don't want to bother

01:44:19.240 you when you're in a role like that.

01:44:20.460 They think, you know, you'll get annoyed or I don't know what it was, but you were, I

01:44:25.060 would say you were, you were just a soft place to fall.

01:44:27.240 You, you were always a soft place to fall in my life and still are.

01:44:29.780 And you project that to the world.

01:44:32.040 They just know that about you.

01:44:33.480 So people started calling you and you started gently reaching out to people and lo and behold,

01:44:38.580 there they were, you know, this underground stiletto army of women who honestly, who said

01:44:50.860 me too.

01:44:52.420 Yep.

01:44:53.440 Yep.

01:44:54.100 Before there was even a me too.

01:44:56.100 Yep.

01:44:57.260 Very brave, very brave, very brave, but we couldn't have done it.

01:45:02.420 We would not have done it without, without you, you know?

01:45:05.220 Um, I still feel so bad when I look back on it though, Janice, I feel like, you know,

01:45:15.060 I still wish that, you know, like, what if I had made a federal case out of it?

01:45:21.460 You know, what if, what if I had thrown caution to the wind and just thought like, you know,

01:45:29.380 I'm just going to make sure right now he's not this other thing, you know, that some of

01:45:34.360 the women who came after might not have had to deal with it.

01:45:37.640 And, and even now I have, I have concerns the other way.

01:45:40.940 I don't regret anything we did, but I do feel like I was disloyal.

01:45:46.760 I still have that in me.

01:45:48.260 You know, there's like a, a cult mentality at Fox about you don't turn against the family

01:45:55.200 and you certainly don't turn against the patriarch of the family.

01:45:57.720 And I still feel like I did betray him and in a way them, and I understand why they don't

01:46:04.920 like me, you know, like some of these guys were still there.

01:46:07.680 I don't, do you ever, do you ever, I don't, do you ever wrestle with that either way?

01:46:13.240 Yeah.

01:46:13.800 I mean, there, there were people that I remember doing interviews saying that, you know, these

01:46:17.960 women are liars, like close to me, people I worked with that I loved that were basically

01:46:24.140 saying they're liars.

01:46:27.680 I think about that.

01:46:29.120 I, you know, I think, I think forgiveness is, is important.

01:46:32.500 It's something I've learned to have more of over the years.

01:46:35.420 I try to, you know, forgive people.

01:46:38.620 And we have to, you know, forgive ourselves too.

01:46:41.300 I, you know, the, to this day, I wonder sometimes like, was he that monster?

01:46:48.720 I don't, I mean, we've heard terrible stories.

01:46:51.320 So yes, he probably was, but he was so good.

01:46:54.880 It's not black and white.

01:46:56.540 It's very gray.

01:46:57.940 He was very kind to me when I was diagnosed with MS.

01:47:01.580 We had a good relationship.

01:47:03.100 He was like a father figure.

01:47:05.080 I mean, we, we really, truly like, I mean, this man's career went, you know, I cried when

01:47:12.040 he died.

01:47:12.560 I cried.

01:47:13.380 I cried.

01:47:14.140 There's video of me crying on Fox and Friends because it is not that simple.

01:47:20.100 It's not, it's never that simple, you know, like women that are married to abusers and

01:47:25.860 they, they keep going back.

01:47:27.280 There's a reason for that.

01:47:28.340 It's not that simple.

01:47:30.300 We did the best we could with the information that we had and you have to forgive yourself.

01:47:34.440 And if those people are still going around saying like, you know, if, if Roger was still

01:47:40.980 here, you know, this, that, or the other thing, well, you know what?

01:47:44.180 He's not.

01:47:45.640 And that's, that's the way it, you know, that's the way it unfolded.

01:47:51.900 That's on him.

01:47:52.740 That, that I do know.

01:47:54.300 You, you always said, all I said, I mean, like truly, what did I wind up doing?

01:47:59.060 I wound up calling Locke the Murdoch.

01:48:00.900 You know what I mean?

01:48:01.580 That was after all the wrestling of like, now what, now what do we do?

01:48:06.000 Because all these women and men at the company are coming out and saying, never, he wouldn't,

01:48:10.960 no way.

01:48:11.760 Then I find out he's gotten the investigation limited to basically no one.

01:48:16.280 And I, you know, I wrote about this in my book, but it's a hundred percent true that

01:48:19.620 I was on my porch swing in New Jersey, looking at pictures on my phone.

01:48:23.400 And there was a picture of Yardley, you know, who was then five.

01:48:28.740 Yeah, she was five.

01:48:31.000 And she had fallen off the monkey bars like a month or two earlier.

01:48:35.460 And I had been working.

01:48:37.300 I was out in San Diego covering the last day of the Democratic primary contest.

01:48:43.060 Hillary Clinton secured the nomination that day.

01:48:46.560 And my daughter fell off the top of the monkey bars and was rushed to the emergency room by

01:48:49.900 a babysitter, someone other than me and needed several stitches.

01:48:55.780 And it was terrible.

01:48:57.900 You know, we, we all had had and have working mother guilt.

01:49:01.020 And those are the moments it really springs into action.

01:49:03.760 I don't have to tell you that.

01:49:04.920 And, uh, that's the, and then, so two weeks later, she got back up on those same monkey

01:49:11.300 bars.

01:49:11.920 She was wearing a white dress with red dots and sneakers and her long hair was hanging.

01:49:17.240 I took a picture of hers at the top of the monkey bars, looking down all smiles in her

01:49:22.120 dress, but her sneakers.

01:49:23.420 So it's like a girl, but like tough and resilient and brave.

01:49:28.700 And I saw that picture and that, that was truly the moment I said, I'm calling him, I'm calling

01:49:35.960 Lachlan Murdoch and I'm telling him this story.

01:49:40.920 And there needs to be a full investigation for other women.

01:49:45.540 This may be happening to for Yardley.

01:49:48.360 We, you know, I know that the Me Too movement has been corrupted by people who used it for

01:49:55.680 political reasons, but what happened at Fox was done out of real concern for our fellow

01:50:03.620 colleagues, our daughters and the people who had come up after us.

01:50:08.460 That's, that's the truth.

01:50:11.280 And you like going door to door at Fox news and trying to get women to trust you at a time

01:50:19.820 when we were not trusting each other to the contrary, uh, was incredibly courageous, JD.

01:50:26.860 And I remember it was part of your stress, right?

01:50:28.800 Like that not only would you have told your story, but you didn't want to be known as a

01:50:32.100 ringleader, which would be held against you, you know, and you, you didn't have the pick

01:50:37.500 the full picture for how this would shake out all these years later, you know, that

01:50:40.740 he would go down and he was, he was hurting people serially and in very dark ways.

01:50:50.920 Yeah.

01:50:51.620 And every day I would come home and I'd say to Sean, like, Oh, you know, I talked to

01:50:55.700 somebody else today and, and he knew it was dangerous and, but I kept doing it.

01:51:00.920 I just kept trying to find others, you know, and, you know, um, I struggled with

01:51:07.500 I, you know, I was able to write about it too.

01:51:10.240 And it was really important.

01:51:11.200 And, and my, I've been in therapy for 20 years and God bless Judy, Judy, God, God bless

01:51:17.060 Judy.

01:51:17.400 And I know you got one too.

01:51:19.080 And I mean, she had to sit with me for many days, you know, where it was very difficult.

01:51:25.180 This was, this was, yeah, this was the heart, one of the hardest things we've ever done.

01:51:29.640 And, you know, and I would say, people have asked me, what do you, what, what's your

01:51:34.060 advice, you know, and my advice is, you know, try to find some girlfriends in your place

01:51:39.540 of work, you know, like there is strength in numbers and look at what's happened.

01:51:43.700 I, you know, listen, there's always going to be naughty people.

01:51:48.960 There's always going to be like those men, unfortunately.

01:51:51.940 Um, but I do believe we're trying to turn a corner where it's, it's safer, I hope.

01:51:59.220 And someone asked me the, you know, just a few months ago, like, do you think you're

01:52:02.980 still at Fox because you're sort of like a den mother and you, you feel like you, you

01:52:07.520 can't leave there because you had to take care of others.

01:52:10.060 And I think that that's, there's something to that too.

01:52:13.280 Mm-hmm.

01:52:14.560 You, that is, that is who you are.

01:52:16.880 I mean, I, that was one of my main complaints about the movie Bombshell, you know, that I

01:52:22.260 didn't have anything to do with was that your role didn't, didn't get its proper due.

01:52:29.760 But, but no one knew it's okay.

01:52:32.700 That's listen, I mean, but who cares?

01:52:37.080 The, the bottom line is, you know what, for better or for worse, the story is it's history.

01:52:42.580 It's a, it's a historic, uh, movement, um, that where women got together and tried to

01:52:51.400 do the right thing.

01:52:52.280 That's the bottom line because they just tried to do the right thing.

01:52:55.340 And they had, you know, their, their husbands, my, my, my, my husband, Sean, like, you know,

01:53:00.980 it was the day that I went home and he told me, it doesn't matter.

01:53:05.400 It doesn't matter what happens.

01:53:07.400 You're going to lose your job.

01:53:08.680 We'll figure it out.

01:53:09.700 You have to go in and tell your story.

01:53:11.780 That's what it's about.

01:53:13.660 Same.

01:53:14.180 Honestly, Doug never, never hesitated.

01:53:16.420 He was like, hon, you always, you always know the right thing to do.

01:53:20.820 And if, if this is what you feel is the right thing, go do it.

01:53:26.720 You and I saw the movie together.

01:53:30.040 We, we were holding hands.

01:53:32.160 I think we cried throughout the entire thing, right?

01:53:34.640 Like that night was so emotional and, you know, it came in the heels of her press tour

01:53:41.600 where she'd been so negative about Fox, about me.

01:53:44.780 It was like, wow, I don't understand.

01:53:46.560 And so I kind of went into it thinking, I don't know what I'm going to get here.

01:53:50.040 I don't know what this movie is going to be about, how it's going to reflect on what happened.

01:53:54.580 Because even though I'm fine taking criticism, I take it all the time, I, I view that chapter

01:54:00.640 of our lives as hallowed ground.

01:54:02.100 And I, I just, I, I really won't tolerate people debasing it because it, it was a really

01:54:10.360 hard, complex, but noble effort.

01:54:16.720 And, um, I just remember holding each other the whole time and like seeing your life portrayed

01:54:22.740 up there on the big screen that you've just lived, right?

01:54:25.680 Like it came out two years after we lived it, you know?

01:54:30.880 I was like, and I've laughed because I've, I've said before that there's a reason I repressed

01:54:35.100 all of this.

01:54:36.020 Like I didn't, I did not wish to be thrown back into that elevator on the, on the ride

01:54:40.400 up to Ailes's office.

01:54:41.380 And, you know, she looked just like me.

01:54:44.020 She did.

01:54:44.760 It was crazy.

01:54:45.780 It was crazy.

01:54:47.000 Though I don't think she sounded just like me, but she looked just like me.

01:54:50.720 No, you have a very distinctive voice.

01:54:52.260 She tried.

01:54:52.920 There were times where she tried to get it right, but it failed.

01:54:57.580 Well, she was sort of, you know,

01:54:58.900 she went down here and I can go down there if I want, but I can also go up here.

01:55:04.180 I can go all over.

01:55:06.700 It was jarring.

01:55:07.960 It was jarring.

01:55:09.160 It was jarring how, how much she looked like you, but I will say that I was disappointed

01:55:15.260 when she would do these press junkets and she would be, you know, people would say, well,

01:55:19.300 how, how, how do you cover her?

01:55:21.700 You know, like, ah, F off, you know, just screw off.

01:55:27.020 You have no idea.

01:55:27.660 You've never even met each other before.

01:55:29.480 And she's, well, well, it was a role and it was, you know, you people have no idea what

01:55:36.300 we went through.

01:55:37.060 Like, really?

01:55:37.760 You're just actors.

01:55:38.800 She's never met me.

01:55:41.080 She's never met.

01:55:41.580 She, she gave some interviews sort of saying when Megan Kelly walks into a room, I'm like,

01:55:44.900 what do you, she would describe what I'm, I'm like, we don't know each other.

01:55:47.960 How do you know what I'm like when I walk into a room?

01:55:49.720 You have, you have no idea.

01:55:50.980 But the, the only thing she really said that, that upset me.

01:55:53.780 And for the most part, I thought, you know, she was classy and she handled herself very

01:55:57.100 well.

01:55:57.840 Um, but the only thing she said that I, that I did have an issue with was, um, somebody

01:56:04.080 at one of those Q and A's after the facts is something like, well, if Megan Kelly, you

01:56:09.140 know, she got harassed.

01:56:10.240 Why didn't she come forward when it happened?

01:56:12.540 And if she really knew the story, she would have responded by saying she did come forward.

01:56:16.800 She did.

01:56:17.380 She went to a supervisor and told the story and they didn't do anything.

01:56:20.340 But instead she said, oh no, Megan Kelly was late to the party.

01:56:25.700 No question.

01:56:26.460 She was late to the party.

01:56:28.280 Oh my gosh.

01:56:29.780 Oh, I didn't know she said something like that.

01:56:32.440 Yeah.

01:56:32.660 And I was like, what party was that?

01:56:35.460 What?

01:56:35.760 Cause there was no party before the women of Fox news stood up for themselves then against

01:56:41.140 their boss.

01:56:41.760 Women were not doing that.

01:56:43.320 There was no me too movement.

01:56:44.840 Like, were you late to the party in Hollywood with Harvey Weinstein when Rose McGowan came

01:56:50.420 out and accused Harvey Weinstein of raping her?

01:56:53.160 Was she late to the party?

01:56:54.120 You know, and it was like, that is the one problem I have with, you know, sort of comments

01:56:59.680 about like that because, and even the movie where they had this young woman blame her

01:57:04.120 harassment, some fictional woman on me in the movie.

01:57:06.980 That's just never the way this movement shook out.

01:57:10.200 No woman who has come forward to say me too has been turned around.

01:57:15.880 Let's say she's victim number 16 and blamed victims one through 15.

01:57:20.180 The blame goes on the guy, the guy doing it and the system that protects him.

01:57:24.880 It doesn't go on the other victims who up until now didn't even see standing up as an option,

01:57:32.700 right?

01:57:33.100 Like late to what party?

01:57:36.100 Seriously?

01:57:36.940 Like what?

01:57:38.520 I mean, when it happened to me, I kept a journal and kept a record.

01:57:42.640 I consulted a lawyer and opened up a case file.

01:57:45.700 I went to my supervisor and told I confided in other colleagues.

01:57:50.960 What more should I have done?

01:57:53.000 Right.

01:57:53.360 I like, I can argue both sides.

01:57:54.420 I can beat myself up and say, I should have set myself on fire to call attention to it.

01:57:58.400 But realistically, the lawyer in me knows that that was an impossibility.

01:58:02.460 He was the most powerful man in news.

01:58:04.300 It was an impossibility.

01:58:05.720 And there was no clear roadmap for doing that and having any sort of meaningful professional

01:58:11.640 life thereafter, you know?

01:58:14.060 Yeah.

01:58:14.700 I mean, absolutely.

01:58:16.060 I agree.

01:58:16.940 You know, you, you just do the best you can with the circumstances that you're under and,

01:58:22.620 you know, the experience that you've had before that.

01:58:25.420 And, uh, like I said, I mean, what I went through with Roger, I could tell many stories

01:58:30.020 of other terrible men that have done way worse.

01:58:33.880 And I always, through my career, just tried to like, either get away from it or just forge

01:58:40.340 through and, um, you know, just, just hope that I had the ability, the wherewithal to,

01:58:47.020 to make the right decisions.

01:58:48.360 So no one, you know, I used to be bothered by that too.

01:58:51.380 Like, Oh, why didn't you quit?

01:58:53.380 Well, you know what?

01:58:54.400 That's a, that's a really complicated answer.

01:58:56.960 Would you really like to spend some time with me and find out why I didn't quit instead

01:59:00.860 of just judging me, you know?

01:59:04.120 So I, I don't know about you.

01:59:06.180 I, I, you know, we, but we both wrote about it.

01:59:09.060 I don't think I could ever, I can't read about, I can't read what I wrote.

01:59:13.780 Are you able to do that?

01:59:15.040 I know I never go back and read it.

01:59:16.340 Nope.

01:59:16.780 I can't do it.

01:59:17.460 I mean, this is, I was actually not nervous, but anxious about our conversation just because,

01:59:22.820 you know, it, we watched that movie and I was in hysterics afterwards, almost, you

01:59:28.540 know, sort of panic attack, uh, Sean was there and I just had to like go get some air.

01:59:33.520 It was, it's very difficult.

01:59:35.920 Um, it's, uh,

01:59:37.020 Well, this is the first time we've talked about it together publicly.

01:59:39.400 I, when you released your book, I wasn't on the air.

01:59:43.060 And when I did my reaction to the bombshell movie, which is on YouTube, um, I couldn't

01:59:48.620 have you because you're at Fox and it was, you know, they didn't, I don't think they,

01:59:52.440 I felt it would be futile to ask them for you about that particular subject.

01:59:56.560 Um, I knew we'd get a day and to Fox's credit, they're, they're letting you be here now.

02:00:01.480 And they, they did let you write about it.

02:00:02.740 They let me write about it.

02:00:04.700 And, you know, I will just say one other thing.

02:00:06.700 I mean, not for nothing, but perhaps appropriately in order to get you here, we had to ask for

02:00:13.160 permission from Irina Briganti, who is the head of PR at Fox.

02:00:17.280 And she's in the movie bombshell.

02:00:20.560 And I, I've publicly said unkind things about her because I didn't think she was supportive

02:00:26.320 of the women at Fox during the whole thing.

02:00:29.040 And she's denied, you know, my charges against her and so on.

02:00:32.440 But I will tell you now I look at her differently and not just because she let you come on the

02:00:37.960 show.

02:00:38.160 Um, I actually see Irina as having been victimized by him too.

02:00:45.340 You know, he controlled her world, her paycheck, everything and her entire career.

02:00:52.500 And that situation was so pressure filled, you know, her, you know, expected to be loyal

02:00:58.260 to him.

02:00:58.760 That's what was expected that prior to that day during that time.

02:01:01.820 And for a while thereafter, and so I'm sure it was an enormous challenge for her to handle

02:01:06.760 too.

02:01:07.080 And she probably had no one to talk to about it.

02:01:09.760 And I'll tell you what really made me reevaluate her was my two years at NBC.

02:01:14.320 If you really want to love the way somebody handles PR, like she's a master at it, you

02:01:18.960 know, like she, I have newfound respect for how she handles incoming attacks on her talent

02:01:24.540 because, you know, she does sort of sit in a room all day with a machine gun trained on

02:01:28.320 the outside world as they come after Fox.

02:01:30.080 Sometimes the machine gun can kind of waver inside a little, um, but nobody, nobody's

02:01:37.700 perfect.

02:01:38.300 And, uh, anyway, just for the record, uh, since I've said unkind things about her, I

02:01:42.360 kind of wanted to get on the record that I think I understand her better.

02:01:45.940 And maybe one of these days we'll, I'll go have a cocktail or something, JD.

02:01:50.500 She's always been good to me.

02:01:51.960 She's always been very kind and I'm grateful for that.

02:01:54.600 You know, like, especially with the Cuomo stuff, you know, this is, this is difficult

02:01:58.080 for Fox too, because, you know, I'm going out there and I'm trying to be an advocate.

02:02:02.200 That's a strange place for Fox to be in or somebody in PR that's trying to, you know,

02:02:08.300 I'm essentially like a, a, a talent that works there, but I'm also somebody that's very vocal

02:02:14.420 about the governor of New York.

02:02:15.620 That's, I mean, for them to be, um, you know, very open and very, um, willing to, you know,

02:02:22.260 let me do that on behalf of my family.

02:02:24.800 I'm grateful.

02:02:26.080 I'm so grateful.

02:02:27.260 And, uh, she's certainly been one of the people that has, uh, you know, spoken on my behalf.

02:02:33.680 Uh, if you get in a dog fight, she's a great person to have on your team.

02:02:36.420 That's for sure to have to be in the bunker with you to mix my metaphors.

02:02:39.420 Um, can we talk just for a minute about being on camera and aging?

02:02:48.040 You turned 50 in May.

02:02:50.540 I'm staring down it right now, right?

02:02:52.980 It's coming next Wednesday, JD, November 5.0.

02:02:58.220 Um, but I'm actually, okay.

02:02:59.700 I, I'm, I consider it my fucking fifties and I'm saying, bring it on, bring it.

02:03:04.640 You'll, you look amazing.

02:03:06.320 Uh, it, listen, I'm, I'm there.

02:03:09.600 I'm glad I'm there.

02:03:10.480 I'm embracing it.

02:03:12.020 Uh, talk to me when I'm 60.

02:03:13.880 We'll see how that goes, but you know, but it's hard, but listen, it's hard.

02:03:18.420 We're in a business where, um, we are looked at on a daily basis.

02:03:22.820 You try to look your best.

02:03:24.720 You know, I've always had a pretty good, I think a pretty good gene pool.

02:03:27.940 I've definitely like struggle with my weight over the years.

02:03:30.700 I've gotten to a point where it's like, I'm not going to be a thin mint, but I'm okay with

02:03:34.060 that.

02:03:34.320 I'm all right.

02:03:34.840 I just want to be, I just want to be healthy for my family.

02:03:39.080 Um, uh, but yes, of course you try to do things that are going to, you know, stop the aging

02:03:45.160 process a little bit.

02:03:46.900 Um, and I know what you're getting to.

02:03:49.380 I mean, listen, well, listen, I mean, we, you and I always talk about like cosmetic options,

02:03:54.600 right?

02:03:54.860 Like we don't want to go under the knife necessarily, although I'm not opposed.

02:03:57.820 I'm not opposed.

02:03:58.380 Um, but look, we, we, I, I have Botox.

02:04:02.320 I don't like filler.

02:04:04.460 Um, but people will ask me a lot and you know what I do like, it's something called skin

02:04:08.460 tight, the skin tight laser.

02:04:10.000 And it's, it doesn't hurt.

02:04:11.780 It just warms up your skin.

02:04:12.920 It's like this thing they put all over your face and it warms up your skin and apparently

02:04:16.060 it stimulates collagen, but these things are damn expensive.

02:04:19.280 So I wouldn't be doing this if I were, you know, the 22 year old me, of course I wouldn't

02:04:23.360 need it cause I'd be young.

02:04:24.260 Um, but anyway, so it's expensive.

02:04:27.480 I'll say that up front, but it does work.

02:04:29.380 Um, and so obviously when you're on camera, there's even more pressure to stay looking

02:04:34.380 good.

02:04:34.680 And you and I talked about one of your insecurities, which was your neck.

02:04:39.940 You had some lines going like from left to right, like a tree across your neck.

02:04:46.480 They were not like, yes, let's be honest.

02:04:49.300 I mean, even when I was a kid, I, I had these like weird, there's a, there's an actual

02:04:54.240 like, uh, real name for what it's called, but I refuse to find out what it's called.

02:04:59.520 It's just like tree trunk lines.

02:05:01.460 And of course, when I get older, it's more prominent because on top of those tree trunk

02:05:07.760 lines, there's like, you know, crepey skin.

02:05:10.900 And, you know, since I met my husband, he always knew, like, it was so funny.

02:05:15.280 Cause when I was talking to him just a few, you know, a few years ago, we're talking about

02:05:18.380 maybe getting a neck lift, you know, not a facelift, just a neck lift because I hate my

02:05:23.660 neck.

02:05:24.480 I'm definitely going to get a facelift when I turn 60.

02:05:26.520 I'm totally getting a face.

02:05:27.520 I'm just putting that out there right now.

02:05:28.680 I'm going to be like Kris Jenner.

02:05:29.860 Like I'm going to walk everybody through.

02:05:31.160 You can see the before and after.

02:05:32.800 I think by that time, they'll probably have perfected it a little bit because, you know,

02:05:36.720 I will look at stars that have gotten stuff done and been like, it, it looks good, but

02:05:42.620 there's something weird about it.

02:05:44.700 They looked like they've been pulled too tightly.

02:05:46.680 Something.

02:05:47.160 But I love Dolly Parton, like from the very beginning, like 20 years ago, she's like, I've

02:05:50.940 been, uh, nipped, tucked and sucked.

02:05:53.860 You know, like I just, she's totally embraced it.

02:05:57.040 Um, so yeah, she says in the character of, of, um, steel magnolias when she's in that movie,

02:06:03.460 it takes some effort to look like this.

02:06:06.200 That's right.

02:06:07.000 And it's true.

02:06:08.140 It's, it's very true.

02:06:09.480 And my husband has always known that I've had this issue with my neck.

02:06:12.200 So I always, so I always would ask the doctor who would do the Botox.

02:06:17.040 I do Botox.

02:06:18.100 Um, and I'm open with that.

02:06:20.340 I've never done the filler before, but I was, I would always say to him, like, have they

02:06:25.140 come out with anything that can do something with this?

02:06:28.080 And I would like, you know, this neck of mine.

02:06:31.180 But one day when I would go in and I'd be like on my 20th time of saying to him, can you

02:06:36.740 do something about this neck?

02:06:38.220 He said, you know, what, what, and he told me about this procedure that was like newly

02:06:46.480 out, you know, um, and it was quote unquote non-invasive.

02:06:51.240 So it, you know, it's not really a facelift.

02:06:53.800 It wouldn't take weeks and weeks of recovery time.

02:06:56.600 It was, uh, you know, you, it was in the office and you would be put under anesthesia.

02:07:01.420 Um, but it was a very simple procedure in and out.

02:07:04.240 And you, you know, you would need a long weekend to kind of recover from it.

02:07:08.220 I'm like, sign me up, doc.

02:07:09.980 Sounds amazing.

02:07:12.200 Um, so, you know, he gave me paperwork to sign.

02:07:15.000 I looked over it and he basically said, you know, this is safe.

02:07:17.680 You know, it's, it looks like it's effective.

02:07:19.720 It's, it's sort of brand new.

02:07:21.640 Um, you'd be sort of like one of my first people, but I'm confident.

02:07:25.380 And, uh, there's like you said, it's going to stimulate your collagen and how long, you

02:07:29.840 know, it'll last for a couple of years and nobody will know.

02:07:32.320 And then, uh, I, I went and did it.

02:07:34.880 And I remember my husband picked me up afterwards and my one part of my face was like, so swollen.

02:07:42.080 It was, it looked, I looked really like, he just was like, are you okay?

02:07:47.540 Like, oh, okay.

02:07:50.080 You know, um, and, uh, I wasn't okay.

02:07:55.160 Um, I was, you know, I, it went wrong.

02:07:59.000 It went wrong.

02:08:00.040 And, um, you know, a few years later, I'm learning that even though I signed on the dotted line

02:08:06.300 to all of these risks undergoing a procedure like this, it was very invasive.

02:08:11.360 Um, the doctor used heat to intentionally destroy tissue.

02:08:16.140 He, he cut my skin.

02:08:18.600 I, I, I have scars on my neck from the place where he went in with a tube.

02:08:23.260 Um, and I'm learning about the device.

02:08:25.620 The device was very controversial and, uh, went through FDA loopholes to be considered

02:08:33.480 quote unquote, quote safe, but it wasn't safe.

02:08:37.320 It was, it's called face tight and fractura.

02:08:41.360 So it was these two combined things and both, uh, procedures use, um, a medical device by

02:08:48.700 this company called Inbasics.

02:08:50.500 So I'm learning about these things because I am involved in a, in a lawsuit with several

02:08:55.880 other women.

02:08:56.880 I remember after this happened to you, you were like, okay, it's like, of course you're,

02:09:01.680 you're following and you're worried when your friend gets a cosmetic procedure and, you

02:09:07.060 know, you just assume it's going to turn out right.

02:09:08.420 But like, I always thought, and I think you thought the biggest risk was like, maybe it's

02:09:12.420 just like, it won't work that well.

02:09:14.020 Or, you know, maybe there's like a little downtime afterward, whatever.

02:09:17.440 Um, not that like, something's going to really go wrong.

02:09:20.840 And I, we met, remember we met at Sarah best and it looked like you had Bell's palsy.

02:09:25.960 And it was like, what's going on?

02:09:27.640 You like the one side of your mouth, the left side would not lift.

02:09:31.020 You would smile and it would only go, it would only go up and the left side wouldn't move

02:09:35.580 it.

02:09:36.420 It's like, it was terrible.

02:09:38.220 So I've only had two, um, uh, anxiety panic attacks in my life.

02:09:43.900 The one was the Roger Ailes thing.

02:09:46.160 And the second one was doing this procedure.

02:09:49.240 Um, I was off work for two months.

02:09:51.300 I remember the day I tried to go back to work and they, you know, they, they, I, you know,

02:09:58.320 it looked okay when I wasn't talking, but you know, when you're on television, you project,

02:10:03.320 right.

02:10:03.500 You're not just in a conversation.

02:10:04.660 You're like, here's the West coast.

02:10:06.740 And there's a storm coming in from the Pacific.

02:10:09.140 Um, you know, you're, you're exaggerated.

02:10:10.920 And I just remember I was slurring my words.

02:10:13.820 It sounded like I was drunk and my, the side of my face was not, was not working properly.

02:10:20.220 And I was mortified.

02:10:22.640 I turned to one side for the whole report because I was just so freaked out that I, you

02:10:29.540 know, that I was deformed on television.

02:10:32.400 Um, when you had to go over to like the West coast of the, of the map, you were like, nope,

02:10:36.720 just, no, you can figure it out.

02:10:38.540 It's way over there by California.

02:10:40.480 Exactly.

02:10:40.880 Um, thankfully, you know, I, I, my, my bosses, uh, Lauren Pettersson and, and, you know,

02:10:47.780 Suzanne Scott had to know as well, and they were so supportive and I just felt so embarrassed.

02:10:52.880 I, I was afraid to tell my mom.

02:10:55.100 I remember, you know, going, I, I was, it was really, I mean, I just thought to myself,

02:11:00.140 all these things going through your mind, like, how could I be that vain to do something

02:11:04.080 like this?

02:11:04.980 And I remember talking to my mom.

02:11:06.080 That's not the right question.

02:11:07.340 That is not the right question.

02:11:08.460 Well, but you do.

02:11:08.940 It's like a visual business.

02:11:10.000 It's a visual business.

02:11:11.100 And, you know, even if you're not on television, if you want to do it to make yourself feel

02:11:14.640 good, there's, you know, yes, you should look into the medical risks, but I don't think women

02:11:18.920 should be shamed for being vain when they do something like that.

02:11:23.060 If it's not over the top and Kardashian, like, I don't think it's controversial.

02:11:27.520 You know, my bottom line here is absolutely do what makes you feel good.

02:11:31.240 I'm not against, you know, plastic surgery or any of those helpers that make us feel good

02:11:36.020 and look good.

02:11:36.660 Um, I guess my bottom line is, you know, read what you're, what you're, you know, you're

02:11:43.260 signing to.

02:11:43.940 And, and, uh, you know, before I was always like, well, I blame myself because I signed

02:11:47.860 away, but I did not know some of the details on the, um, equipment that was used on me, which

02:11:55.480 was not safe.

02:11:57.080 And that's why, you know, uh, many of us are trying to, you know, do something because,

02:12:02.260 um, you know, these doctors can use devices that, that are not really looked at at the

02:12:09.080 FDA.

02:12:09.440 And that's, that's the scary part.

02:12:11.120 That's the scary part.

02:12:12.180 That is scary.

02:12:13.080 It is a, what I remember about that time is you were, you were emailing your doctor, like,

02:12:19.240 when's it going to start moving again?

02:12:21.440 And he kept saying like another couple of days or two weeks, two weeks, two weeks, and, and

02:12:25.800 nothing changed.

02:12:26.760 It wasn't even getting better.

02:12:28.000 So it was like, for, there's a period there where we were like, this could be permanent.

02:12:31.300 This could be the permanent state of your face.

02:12:33.200 Like it's not improving at all.

02:12:35.140 And, um, you finally said, it's not, it's not changing.

02:12:39.220 I don't, forgive me.

02:12:39.880 I don't remember exactly the words, but something like it's not, it's not getting better.

02:12:42.360 And he said something to the effect of, I'm praying for you.

02:12:48.140 Namaste.

02:12:49.340 Which is not what anyone wants to hear from their plastic surgeon or dermatologist, whatever

02:12:54.360 he was.

02:12:54.780 Oh my God.

02:12:56.060 Don't say namaste and don't say praying.

02:12:58.760 No, it was not good.

02:12:59.900 A man of science.

02:13:01.340 Well, and that was Sean's other day where he was like, I better not meet this doctor in

02:13:05.960 the street because, uh, yeah.

02:13:10.080 Um, so listen, uh, we should state for the record.

02:13:14.280 Here's the thing.

02:13:15.100 Amazing.

02:13:15.580 It, but there is still a little bit of damage that that's the thing is that it, there are

02:13:21.360 still scars and there, my smile is not a hundred percent, unfortunately.

02:13:25.740 And my husband will tell me like, there are certain times where I, he'll see me and go,

02:13:29.800 it's unfortunately, you know, yes, 90% is there, but there's a 10% there that, that still

02:13:36.700 isn't a hundred percent.

02:13:37.640 And it's just a cautionary tale to, you know, um, you know, just be careful.

02:13:42.360 And, uh, and, and I, I hope like on behalf of all of these women that were really injured,

02:13:46.900 I mean, my injuries compared to the other ladies are really quite something.

02:13:50.900 So I haven't reached out to them.

02:13:52.920 I'm sure they're going to deny this just for the record.

02:13:54.860 Of course, you're the lawyer, but you were, you were, you were also the one that court.

02:13:59.200 You're the, also the one that gave me very good advice to go get a second opinion.

02:14:03.760 Um, so that, that was a smart move.

02:14:07.020 You know, if, if something happens, then it's always good to go get a second or a third opinion.

02:14:11.900 Um, because you know, um, that will help you down the line if you are doing something

02:14:17.440 that I am, which is, which is trying to hold these people accountable.

02:14:21.240 Yeah.

02:14:22.140 Oh, it's like, it is scary.

02:14:23.400 Cause it's like, you, you really are rolling the dice when you mess with your face and especially

02:14:28.000 if you're on TV, but in any event, everybody wants their face to look good.

02:14:30.880 I remember not long after I got into television, I was looking at my face on camera.

02:14:34.220 I'm like, why is my left eyebrow so much higher than my right eyebrow?

02:14:38.960 And you just start noticing all of the irregularities of your face.

02:14:42.660 And I always knew that my left side was more attractive than my right side.

02:14:46.400 So I would always try to show the left, you know, even like the little picture of my

02:14:50.200 face on the show, the show photo.

02:14:52.040 There's a reason it's my left profile.

02:14:53.620 Cause I'm hideous on the right side.

02:14:54.840 I don't know what happened.

02:14:55.480 No, I am.

02:14:56.440 You're something happened to my mother's womb.

02:14:59.020 And I, I was at a photo shoot one time and the guy's taking my picture and he's like,

02:15:03.560 Oh yeah, I see what you mean.

02:15:04.540 Yeah.

02:15:04.680 Okay.

02:15:04.920 A little bit more profile.

02:15:06.200 A little bit more, a little bit more, more, more.

02:15:08.940 Not true.

02:15:10.200 What am I like?

02:15:10.960 The Phantom of the Opera is here.

02:15:13.420 Oh, you're just ridiculous.

02:15:17.240 Oh, well, we've been through it all.

02:15:19.320 Honestly, I was, she talks about, you know, for the audience, she talks about me being,

02:15:23.320 uh, God mama to Theodore and she's God mama to Thatcher.

02:15:28.000 And we went through our pregnancies together.

02:15:29.880 You know, she was there when Yardley was born Yardley and Theodore are only six weeks apart

02:15:33.660 and he came first and then she came and, uh, she came to my hospital bed and I went to

02:15:37.880 her hospital bed and held our little babes.

02:15:40.020 You know, the, the parents out there know what it's like.

02:15:42.000 Those first few moments and days when you're so vulnerable and you're so happy and you're

02:15:47.540 also so emotional and, you know, like the bond with your friends and the people who come

02:15:51.420 through, it's just like a special moment.

02:15:54.320 I, I have to tell the story.

02:15:55.960 It's, this is a great lead into when I was in the hospital.

02:15:59.620 With Theodore and you were very pregnant and Sean had to go, well, he had to go do

02:16:05.260 something with Matthew because I had, I had a, you know, I had another boy who was two

02:16:10.040 years old at the time.

02:16:11.160 So he had to go somewhere and I was alone in the hospital room and man, I feel for women

02:16:16.180 when it comes to this, like, you know, you don't know how many, no matter how many times

02:16:20.800 you do it, being alone in the hospital with your baby, who's crying and you don't quite

02:16:24.220 know what to do.

02:16:24.720 And you're trying to get the breastfeeding right.

02:16:26.140 And there's so much pressure on you.

02:16:27.860 And I was, I was sitting there as probably almost like in tears myself because Theodore

02:16:32.420 was like crying and crying.

02:16:33.980 And, and it was, it was late.

02:16:35.500 Like you were coming after your show and he was crying and you walked in.

02:16:39.200 And I just remember you just came over and you scooped him up and you just started singing

02:16:43.920 to him and I, I think it was like, on a star.

02:16:50.640 Yes.

02:16:51.200 Very moonbeams home in a jar and be better off than you are.

02:16:57.480 Right.

02:16:58.680 So it's a song Doug's dad used to love.

02:17:01.200 Well, you sang that to him and he stopped crying.

02:17:04.360 And I was just like, Oh, you're the godmother.

02:17:08.980 You're the godmother.

02:17:10.940 It was just a beautiful moment.

02:17:12.420 It was just, I'll always remember that for the rest of my life.

02:17:15.340 It was just, uh, you know, and then you brought snacks.

02:17:17.720 I remember you raided like one of the vending machines and you brought like little cookies.

02:17:21.540 And, and so I, you know, your audience knows you, everyone loves you, obviously that listens

02:17:26.660 to your podcast, but I hope that I'm able to, you know, give these moments of like, you

02:17:33.000 are a very special person, you know, to me in my life and my family.

02:17:39.480 And I just want the, you know, if you get anything from this, realize that, you know, our friendship

02:17:46.280 is real, it's forever and you are a wonderful human being that I am so grateful in that's

02:17:54.180 in my life.

02:17:55.360 JD.

02:17:56.120 Thank you.

02:17:57.020 Thank you so much.

02:17:58.020 You know, I feel the same about you.

02:17:59.620 I'm so grateful to have you in my life and Sean and the boys and like Doug and I love you

02:18:05.120 guys so much.

02:18:05.780 And I just love what you're doing out there.

02:18:08.140 And I think you're right that some of these experiences you went through from the home invasion

02:18:12.080 to the harassment, to the Don Imus thing, to the Roger Ailes thing.

02:18:16.280 And it's all brought you to this moment where you have to take on the most powerful man

02:18:21.620 in the state of New York, who's from a powerful family and, you know, may have an even bigger

02:18:27.280 political future ahead of him.

02:18:29.400 But there's, again, mostly Sonny, who sometimes is a little cloudy.

02:18:35.700 Sometimes there's a thunderstorm a brew.

02:18:38.520 And it made me think of the, just like all the stuff you've done and the Ailes thing, you

02:18:43.540 know, Misty Copeland, the ballerina, she did.

02:18:46.680 She said something like, anything is possible when you have the right people there to support

02:18:50.300 you.

02:18:50.860 And that's, I feel like that's so true of our, of our friendship and our relationship.

02:18:55.900 I'm damn grateful for it.

02:18:57.840 Love you, lady.

02:18:58.340 Me too, lady.

02:18:58.980 I love you too.

02:18:59.840 My thanks again to Janice.

02:19:03.520 I always say about Janice, if you don't get along with Janice Dean, it's you.

02:19:07.260 And now you can see why.

02:19:08.980 Oh, and by the way, Governor Cuomo, it's you.

02:19:11.540 Before we go, today's episode was brought to you in part by Black Rifle Coffee.

02:19:16.140 Roasted by veterans, Black Rifle Coffee is the freshest brew in America.

02:19:20.480 Go to blackriflecoffee.com slash MK to get yours now.

02:19:24.240 Now, don't forget to tune into the show on Monday.

02:19:27.420 Today, very excited to be talking to Professor Glenn Lowry and Coleman Hughes superstars together.

02:19:36.540 I have so much I want to go over with them.

02:19:38.700 They are two of the smartest people.

02:19:40.460 I listened to them all summer long when we were going through all the riots and stuff.

02:19:44.440 I just learned so much and I've been dying to bring them to you.

02:19:48.180 And I'm thrilled I get to talk to them together.

02:19:50.040 So please don't miss that.

02:19:51.560 And you can make sure you don't miss that by subscribing to the show.

02:19:54.580 Do it now.

02:19:55.220 Just subscribe.

02:19:56.060 And you have to download the show, rate the show, five stars if you please.

02:20:00.520 And if you want to add a review in there, I would love to hear from you.

02:20:03.700 I really would love, love, love to hear you.

02:20:05.180 I'd love to hear the reactions to the show or any particular thoughts you have.

02:20:07.820 And I hope in the meantime, you have a great weekend.

02:20:11.720 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

02:20:13.660 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

02:20:18.340 The Megyn Kelly Show is a Devil May Care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures.

The Megyn Kelly Show - November 13, 2020

Janice Dean on Cuomo, Ailes and Friendship ｜ Ep. 24

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript