The Megyn Kelly Show - Jason Whitlock on the Importance of Faith, Racial Division, and Sports ｜ Ep. 40

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00:00:30.980 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:33.160 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:42.700 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.800 Today on the program we've got Jason Whitlock.

00:00:49.180 This guy first came to my attention over the past year

00:00:52.240 when he started really getting very vocal on Twitter and elsewhere

00:00:56.240 about some of the crazy stuff we're seeing on these race relations and race wars

00:01:00.980 and all the messaging that's been shoved down our throat by the media.

00:01:04.560 And he's been one of the guys standing, not alone, but it's kind of lonely in his space

00:01:09.780 as a black journalist pushing back against the narratives.

00:01:13.500 He's been sort of taking these positions for a long time, even within organizations like ESPN,

00:01:20.760 which are very woke and leftist.

00:01:23.640 And I admire his willingness to stand up for what he believes in,

00:01:27.960 which we need more of right now in this country.

00:01:30.480 And with Jason Whitlock, one of those things is very much faith and America.

00:01:36.120 Uh, so he's an interesting guy, a provocateur in the best sense.

00:01:41.100 And I think you're going to love him.

00:01:42.320 So we'll get to him in one second.

00:01:43.760 He is a writer for Outkick.

00:01:45.260 That's Clay Travis's organization.

00:01:46.840 We love Clay and has been filling in for Glenn Beck on The Blaze.

00:01:50.360 And, uh, you can catch him pretty much all over conservative and other media

00:01:53.880 because of course, you know, right-leaning media, I should say,

00:01:57.120 because, uh, you know, CNN is not going to put him on for, for all the reasons, you know,

00:02:01.280 anyway, you'll love him.

00:02:02.320 You'll hear him in a moment.

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00:03:18.600 And now, Jason Whitlock.

00:03:22.440 Jason, so great to have you here.

00:03:24.400 Thank you for doing this.

00:03:25.660 Great to be here, Megan.

00:03:27.000 I'm honored.

00:03:27.840 You know, I was reading up about you before today, and something I kept encountering was

00:03:33.400 your references to your faith.

00:03:35.840 And I really appreciate that, especially in today's day and age.

00:03:38.860 You know, we live in a godless town, New York City, and it's been a struggle.

00:03:46.040 My husband and I are raising our boys Catholic and our daughter Catholic, because Doug was

00:03:50.220 Presbyterian, is, and I'm Catholic, and I won.

00:03:54.380 And our little guy is seven, and so he should be starting religious education now, because he's

00:04:01.840 supposed to get his first communion in second grade.

00:04:05.480 But thanks to COVID, it's been tough.

00:04:07.420 You know, normally they have these little classes, but it's been tough.

00:04:10.120 And I've been thinking a lot about, it's too bad that it's tough.

00:04:13.620 We need to prioritize this.

00:04:14.740 He's got to get into religious ed.

00:04:16.100 He's got to get his first communion next year.

00:04:17.880 If we don't prioritize faith in our family, no one's going to do it for us.

00:04:21.400 And I know, you know, you've written a lot about how important faith has been in your

00:04:25.940 life, and you're fearing that what appears to be more and more a push, especially by the

00:04:31.180 left, toward what may be, what may feel like a godless country.

00:04:35.700 Can you talk about that?

00:04:37.420 Yeah, I think, unfortunately, I think we're already there.

00:04:41.760 I think that, particularly among the media, because the media, we're so addicted to social

00:04:50.040 media, and Twitter in particular.

00:04:53.140 And Twitter kind of sets our agenda daily, monthly, yearly.

00:04:57.940 And Twitter is probably the most secular place on earth.

00:05:04.760 You almost, it's virtually impossible to build a following talking about faith over Twitter.

00:05:12.120 And certainly, if you have a position of influence, a large following in anything in the media or the

00:05:21.220 entertainment industry or the athletic world, talking about your faith is not the way to

00:05:27.700 gain a following.

00:05:28.560 And so, a conversation in the media about faith has virtually been eliminated.

00:05:35.940 And, you know, I'm having this debate and conversation with my family all the time, because, so now I'm not really political.

00:05:47.500 I've never voted, but, and so I'm someone that tries to evaluate the world through my religious faith.

00:05:56.960 And, and, again, I'm certainly a sinner, and I'm certainly a flawed person, and I acknowledge all that.

00:06:04.720 But I'm struggling with my family a lot, because I'm asking them all the time, well, how does that jive with what we were taught in church?

00:06:14.360 How does that jive with our religious faith?

00:06:16.460 And the answers are never very good.

00:06:21.780 And, and so, I just look at, you know, so my upbringing in the church and my upbringing as an athlete was all tied to faith.

00:06:31.900 And, you know, there was pre-game prayer, there was post-game prayer, the values taught in sports were somewhat consistent with the values taught in the church.

00:06:42.900 And, you know, we're so used to, I made this point in a column a couple of weeks ago about, when I was growing up as a kid, the number one sign you would consistently see at a sporting event was someone in the stands holding up a John 3.16 verse.

00:07:05.100 You know, God so loved the world, gave his only begotten son, blah, blah, blah.

00:07:08.720 That was the number, it was a religious thing about Jesus Christ and the sacrifice he made and the sacrifice God made.

00:07:17.040 And now, the number one sign you'll see at a sporting event is related to Black Lives Matter.

00:07:25.580 And that's just an incredible pivot.

00:07:31.700 Black Lives Matter is just totally secular.

00:07:33.540 If you have any understanding of it, it's based in Marxist ideology.

00:07:40.320 The people that started Black Lives Matter admit that they were, they're trained Marxists. 0.83

00:07:45.640 And if you understand their disruption of the Western prescribed nuclear family, that's all secular value.

00:07:54.320 That's all Marxist values.

00:07:56.560 And I just looked at what they've done to the sports world, taking something that was very patriotic, very faith-based, and turned it anti-American and anti-faith.

00:08:11.660 It's just incredible.

00:08:13.200 And I just wonder if the whole country hasn't gone that way.

00:08:17.040 And so, you know, I'm constantly talking and writing about it because it's critical and it's important.

00:08:24.660 And I'm trying to show other members of the media, you can actually gain audience if you lean into these values.

00:08:31.880 Because I think a lot of people are thirsting for these values to be prevalent again in American society.

00:08:37.740 I mean, I can say on Fox, when Roger Ailes was running it, it was always a priority to not dump on people of faith or their expression of faith.

00:08:48.880 And to remember that this is still, in large part, a faithful country. 0.79

00:08:55.180 And that's why, you know, Fox gets a lot of crap for covering, quote, the war on Christmas.

00:08:59.860 But what are those stories really about? 0.80

00:09:01.840 It's about pushing faith out of the public square, making it verboten to wish somebody a Merry Christmas.

00:09:07.820 It's not about the words Merry Christmas.

00:09:09.980 It's about the shaming of connection when it comes to faith.

00:09:16.540 And honestly, if there were some phrase that summed up, you know, good religious tidings for every faith, the Fox would have done that and they would have supported it.

00:09:27.200 But I think what these leftists want is no religion.

00:09:31.060 It's not about Catholicism.

00:09:32.740 They want no religion. 0.99

00:09:34.140 And slowly but surely, what we're seeing is, A, it's working.

00:09:38.660 And B, it's getting replaced with this weird new religion of wokeism.

00:09:45.580 Yeah.

00:09:45.880 And for someone who is black, I see a religion based around skin color. 0.98

00:09:54.600 And I just think that's very dangerous. 0.91

00:09:57.360 And it's a poor substitute for God.

00:10:03.160 It's a terrible substitute.

00:10:05.500 And so, you know, I just look at so many black people that have prioritized our race as our defining characteristic.

00:10:18.280 And, you know, I think back, I was born in 1967, a year before Martin Luther King was assassinated.

00:10:27.500 And so I came up in a generation where my parents, my grandparents wanted me to live out Martin Luther King's dream.

00:10:34.500 That was the priority.

00:10:35.400 And he was a faith-based leader and wanted all of us to be judged by the content of our character.

00:10:42.720 And now we're making so many judgments on people based on their sexual orientation, their skin color, things that have virtually nothing to do with the content of our character.

00:10:56.280 And certainly, you know, I think when you prioritize religious values and you try to come together underneath, you know, under our shared faith, that is more powerful and more unifying and more fair and promotes the United States of America, promotes freedom, justice, and fairness.

00:11:25.480 When everybody's being asked to come together under their skin color, division is the only outcome. 0.92

00:11:33.300 And obviously, the wokeism that you're talking about is just Orwellian in terms of the controlling of speech and how if you win control of speech, you basically win the control of ideas and you win control of people and their thoughts and what they're allowed to think and what they're not allowed to think.

00:11:55.480 And it's why we've reached this point where I look around at a lot of Americans and I just ask myself, do they even value freedom?

00:12:07.540 And have they just like, freedom is just unimportant right now in America.

00:12:11.600 And it blows me away.

00:12:14.240 I, you know, the Chris Rock, not Chris Rock, I'm sorry, Dave Chappelle went on Saturday Night Live shortly after a few days after the election.

00:12:25.680 And, you know, he gave his opening monologue 16 minutes.

00:12:31.660 It was very divisive and inconsistent with Dave Chappelle's values.

00:12:36.360 He talked about his great-grandfather who was born into slavery, became emancipated and free, and eventually met with President Woodrow Wilson, led a delegation of black people meeting with President Woodrow Wilson.

00:12:53.600 And Dave defined his great-grandfather three ways, said that he loved Jesus Christ, he loved education, and he loved pursuing freedom for black people.

00:13:07.100 And when I heard that, I was like, how much more American can you be, loving Jesus, loving education, and loving freedom, and promoting that?

00:13:18.740 And I'm like, we've moved away from all of that.

00:13:21.660 And I thought, Dave Chappelle, does he even understand what he's saying by referencing his grandfather and his grandfather's values and how inconsistent they were with the things he said on that Saturday Night Live stage,

00:13:36.120 where, you know, he basically promoted racial division and demonized white people in America.

00:13:47.380 Those things are all inconsistent with the things that his great-grandfather stood for and the things that I don't even think Dave Chappelle stands for.

00:13:55.420 If you look at the way he lives his life, he's married to an Asian woman.

00:13:58.640 He lives in a rural white community.

00:14:00.340 His comedy has been most popular with white people.

00:14:06.660 Dave was doing a performance that he felt like he had to do to please the people that run Hollywood and Saturday Night Live and all the entertainment industry.

00:14:16.520 Anyway, I'm on a tangent here.

00:14:18.560 I'm surprised at that.

00:14:19.960 I didn't see the piece, but I loved his Sticks and Stones Netflix piece where he just ripped woke culture a new one.

00:14:27.820 And I thought it was so cleverly done.

00:14:30.840 And he went down some lines, you know, on abortion where I think he was telegraphing to the left, I'm with you, I'm with you until the end.

00:14:38.020 And it was like, boom, no, I'm not.

00:14:39.940 He wasn't explicit, but he was clever in the way he attacked some of this wokeism.

00:14:43.940 But faith, faith can still sadly be bashed with impunity and not just by the citizenry.

00:14:52.360 I mean, we saw this here in New York State when Governor Cuomo tried to limit religious gatherings purportedly to protect people from the spread of COVID.

00:15:02.460 But the bars and the liquor stores could stay on open.

00:15:04.720 Like you can have as many people as you want in the liquor store and the bar.

00:15:07.320 Um, but the, the, the churches and the synagogues had to be limited to 10 people or 25 people.

00:15:14.620 And to their credit, they sued.

00:15:16.760 They filed a legal challenge saying you're discriminating against us.

00:15:19.240 And the Supreme Court in a five, four opinion that included Amy Coney Barrett, uh, said, no, you, you may not do that.

00:15:26.620 There still is religious freedom and you cannot discriminate against churches and synagogues because they're religious places to gather.

00:15:33.500 And then of course, Governor Cuomo said, well, they're just being political.

00:15:35.940 But I do think unless people of faith start fighting back, um, for their right to express what's important to them, right?

00:15:43.380 Under the first amendment, it's just going to get worse and worse.

00:15:46.300 The country is becoming slightly less religious, even though more than three quarters of Americans still, they still identify with a faith.

00:15:52.540 I mean, more than, more than three quarters of the country still says I'm Catholic or I'm Jewish or I'm Presbyterian or I'm evangelical, whatever it is.

00:15:58.500 But slowly but surely, or maybe quickly and surely, it's, it's getting demonized.

00:16:04.160 It's getting sort of tagged with a not cool, not okay, not progressive, not forward looking label.

00:16:10.400 Whereas it's exactly the opposite of how it used to be.

00:16:12.580 Well, let me ask you this, Megan, because my contention is that, you know, people do still loosely identify with their religious faith, but it's not their priority.

00:16:24.200 And so, and I hate to use Twitter as the example, but I, but I will go look at people's bio and, and then go look at how they list themselves is, is Christian or Catholic or whatever Buddhist.

00:16:40.620 Is that the first thing they list on their bio or is there, oh, I'm progressive, I'm liberal, I hate Trump, uh, I'm conservative.

00:16:50.240 Is their political affiliation, the first thing they want to be identified by.

00:16:56.280 And, and I think that's a mistake.

00:16:58.180 And that's the conversation I keep having with my family about, Hey, you can't let politics be your religion either.

00:17:05.120 You can't, if you're spending most of your day talking about Trump or Obama and, and virtually none of your day talking about God and, and what the Bible says about how we should view the events in the world, you're probably making a mistake.

00:17:24.740 And so that, that, that's what I, I think people still have their faith, but they're afraid to let that be their number one priority and how they identify themselves.

00:17:39.140 I wouldn't describe that as my number one label or the, the primary lens through which I view life, but my faith is part of who I am.

00:17:48.520 And I think the greatest gift it gave me was an ethical imprint through which to behave, you know, to use in any tough decision throughout my life that was given to me by my parents and taking me to church, uh, on Sundays when we were growing up and just by espousing the principles in our home and living by them.

00:18:08.240 And I, like I, as we lose that, and you know, just the, just the general principle of do unto others, right.

00:18:14.360 That, that can encompass most of what BLM and the transgender act, all these people are pushing for, which is a massive sort of campaign against anti-bullying and anti-demonization of anybody based on immutable characteristics.

00:18:28.680 Well, we covered that the Bible covers that, you know, and, and now they're, they're going as they've removed or try to remove those imprints from us.

00:18:37.840 They're trying to make them much more cutting, much more negative, much more divisive.

00:18:42.340 And it's working.

00:18:44.360 It's terrifying to me to see all of these, you know, as you point out, BLM messages on the courts at basketball games and in the stands of NFL football games and so on and so forth, when they don't even know what that organization really stands for.

00:18:57.940 They don't know what they're, what they're promoting.

00:19:00.180 They're not promoting racial harmony to the contrary.

00:19:03.540 It's something very different.

00:19:05.200 You're a thousand percent right, Megan.

00:19:07.160 I want to challenge your listeners here and yourself.

00:19:12.840 I would not be afraid of making your faith your primary identifier. 0.99

00:19:20.360 Because I think the left has done a great job of saying like, oh, if you're not perfect, if we catch you doing anything, we can throw all your faith out and we can say you're a hypocrite. 0.95

00:19:33.540 And I think people live in fear of like, well, if I say I'm a Christian, then that gives the left and people over social media, when they catch me doing something unchristian, they can say I'm a hypocrite. 0.95

00:19:46.760 And I just totally reject that.

00:19:50.100 God does not require perfection.

00:19:52.440 And these people down here and these liberals have set themselves up as God, as if there are judges.

00:20:01.180 The most high, Jesus Christ, he's going to judge me at some point.

00:20:07.960 None of these people here on this planet, I will ever bow to their judgment.

00:20:12.580 And so I'm not and trust me, I am far more imperfect than you and probably anybody, you know, I am a sinner, not a proud one, but I am a sinner.

00:20:23.600 I don't require perfection.

00:20:25.080 I just try to do better every day.

00:20:27.040 And I do.

00:20:28.280 I don't I'm not afraid of interpreting, asking myself all the time about, well, how do I feel about this based on my religious faith and principles?

00:20:41.540 And I think that is the key.

00:20:44.880 If we're ever going to save this country, if we're ever going to unify again, we're going to have to prioritize our religious faith and come together under our religious faith, not as perfect human beings.

00:20:59.500 We are all locked.

00:21:02.060 I'm going to go to Vegas at some point and gamble.

00:21:04.720 I'm probably going to gamble not in Vegas.

00:21:07.640 And all the people here on this earth can judge me for that and other things.

00:21:13.480 I'm still a Christian and I still try to align how I engage with other human beings and what things that I jump behind and support.

00:21:24.260 I try to base it off of my Christian view of the world and what allows me the most freedom.

00:21:31.640 And I see so many people afraid to do that.

00:21:35.520 And it's why it's the primary reason the left is lit.

00:21:39.320 More with Jason in one second.

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00:22:48.880 If we have one upside to the pandemic, it's the old, there are no atheists in foxholes belief, right?

00:23:01.020 That when you're facing down a deadly virus that really has taken hundreds of thousands of lives here in the U.S., maybe it does connect you with your faith.

00:23:10.400 Maybe it's a soothing balm.

00:23:12.620 Maybe it just strengthens your belief in a higher power and your need to connect with that.

00:23:17.000 And I know that there was an article back over the summer that downloads of the Bible and prayer apps had been spiking.

00:23:22.960 And I don't think that's unrelated to, you know, the craziness of what's happened this past year.

00:23:28.660 Certainly the pandemic, maybe politics as well.

00:23:31.720 The unrest over the summer.

00:23:33.200 And I want to ask you about that, too, because there was a really interesting article in City Journal recently talking about how we seem to have gotten really permissive of mob violence in the country.

00:23:47.860 Something we were never really in favor of.

00:23:50.280 But that people are now finding justifications to avert their eyes from violence rather than condemning it.

00:23:55.800 And the author was talking about the MAGA march in Washington recently and how the Trump supporters were being attacked.

00:24:04.440 They were being attacked by counter protesters. 0.96

00:24:06.140 And it was violent and saying, look, this is this is no surprise when you've been calling Trump a racist, a fascist, a bigot for four years.

00:24:13.660 You've got they cited Jamal Bowie, formerly of Slate, now The New York Times, as having written a piece that reads, there is no such thing as a good Trump voter.

00:24:23.740 And these people do not deserve your empathy.

00:24:26.920 So do you think we've gotten to the point now where mob violence riots will be given a pass as long as they're in favor of the right quote, the right cause?

00:24:37.100 Yeah, I think we're certainly there.

00:24:38.980 You know, I've tried to explain to people that if you go look at the history of the KKK and it started up shortly after the Emancipation Proclamation,

00:24:51.960 there was the violent arm of the Democratic Party to impose their will and intimidate people into supporting Democratic Jim Crow segregation.

00:25:01.920 And it was the backlash to the Emancipation Proclamation.

00:25:06.420 And again, I think Black Lives Matter, Antifa, the violence we've seen is the violent arm of the Democratic Party trying to impose their will. 0.80

00:25:17.720 If you do not submit there because look how many cities boarded up thinking that President Trump was going to win re-election and everybody like calculated in, OK, well, Trump's going to win and they're going to burn down buildings and loot and terrorize.

00:25:36.160 And and we've built that into the cake.

00:25:39.360 That's now our expectations.

00:25:40.860 And that's why many of us are like concerned, like, are we really just going to be a banana republic?

00:25:48.040 Are we really just going to be a third world country where our expectations have been so lowered that we factored in, well, the left is going to kill, rob and loot if things don't go their way.

00:26:00.500 But let me ask you, let me ask you a follow up on that.

00:26:03.400 I was recently asked in an interview about the mob violence we saw over the summer.

00:26:08.100 And the question was, can you understand that things may have to get messy before they get better in in improving black lives was essentially the question.

00:26:18.380 What do you think of that?

00:26:19.040 Uh, I think things have been messy and listen, let's let's George Floyd.

00:26:29.700 Let's and I'm not I had a cousin that I helped raise killed by the police by sheriff in Indianapolis in 2012.

00:26:40.060 His resume, not quite as bad as George Floyd's, but similar.

00:26:44.640 And this is a cousin I absolutely love.

00:26:47.080 His picture sits in my living room every day.

00:26:50.120 I look at it and Tom Butler.

00:26:52.500 Uh, he was on parole.

00:26:54.760 Uh, the police, the sheriff's overreactor tased him, electrocuted him in the rain.

00:26:59.560 I know the pain of George Floyd's family.

00:27:03.300 Uh, and so I don't say this callously, but, but listen, George Floyd resisted arrest repeatedly.

00:27:10.540 Did he deserve what Derek Chauvin did to him?

00:27:13.340 No.

00:27:13.600 Uh, but he could have avoided by simply complying.

00:27:17.900 And then to throw on the opinion, because all it is is an opinion, is that Derek Chauvin did this out of racism.

00:27:26.880 That's just an opinion.

00:27:27.940 That's not a fact.

00:27:29.960 Derek Chauvin more than likely did it out of an abuse of power, incompetence, frustration.

00:27:37.000 There's no proof that there was some racial animus there.

00:27:40.780 And so the media, and particularly social media, have set up, uh, this dynamic or this belief, this false narrative, like, oh, things are so horrible for black people here in America. 0.97

00:27:53.560 And, and, and they must go out and riot and loot and anything for things to get better because the police are just out randomly killing, uh, black people. 0.97

00:28:02.840 It's just not true. 0.98

00:28:04.780 The stats, the data, everything backs up.

00:28:08.920 It's just not true.

00:28:10.360 The police aren't doing this. 0.99

00:28:11.800 They're not executing a mass plot to kill black people.

00:28:15.400 Police violence has actually gone down over the last 30 years.

00:28:19.300 You're far less likely to be killed by the police.

00:28:22.400 And we all know, or any of us with any curiosity have seen videos of the police through incompetence, through an abuse of power, killing white people that the media never talks about, killing more white people by raw numbers than black people. 0.90

00:28:41.100 Now, people will say, oh, but a black person's two times more likely, uh, to be killed based on, you know, we're only 12% of the population.

00:28:50.060 But again, we all know you can play with numbers.

00:28:53.220 If, if you live in a high crime, high violent neighborhood, you're going to have more encounters with the police, therefore increasing the likelihood that that encounter could spin out of control and have a violent conclusion.

00:29:07.220 And so I just, I reject the whole notion that America is somehow gotten so bad that this kind of random violence, is America worse right now than it was in the 1950s and 60s?

00:29:28.220 When Dr. King and that greatest generation dealt with unquestioned racism, again, when they put up a sign that says black people can't eat here, can't live here, can't drink water here, can't go to school here, that's clear cut racism.

00:29:46.700 That's not an opinion.

00:29:47.700 When there are laws restricting your rights to vote and things like that, that's racism, that's, it's not an opinion.

00:29:55.520 This stuff we're fighting about now and pretending like, oh my God, how can, how can black people survive under this?

00:30:04.060 It's all opinions.

00:30:06.400 It's, again, I was born in 1967.

00:30:10.200 Obviously my parents were born much, long 30, 40 years before me.

00:30:15.120 They experienced racism without ever resorting to this type of violence and not only not ever resorting, producing results in the way they fought back, that this generation isn't coming close to producing the results.

00:30:34.180 And all of this, and all of this, and I hate to go back to this because it sounds like I'm a broken record, but all of this is related to the removal of God.

00:30:44.780 And again, the more secular you become, the more violent you become.

00:30:49.500 The more, you don't, look at the whole, Martin Luther King and that generation, the theme was we shall overcome.

00:30:58.320 That's a very hopeful thing.

00:31:01.100 That's a very faith-based thing.

00:31:04.180 Al Sharpton comes in with no justice, no peace.

00:31:07.900 That's a very violent, non-faith-based, that's not a hopeful thing. 1.00

00:31:13.620 That's a threat.

00:31:15.540 And we've had 30 years of threats.

00:31:20.560 No justice, no peace.

00:31:21.920 And people out in the street, no justice, no peace.

00:31:24.480 Threats, threats, threats.

00:31:25.600 It's unchristian. 0.55

00:31:27.840 It's not faith-based.

00:31:29.260 It can only lead to the kind of racial division and consistent violence we keep seeing here in America.

00:31:37.740 And so under their no justice, no peace plan, they're right.

00:31:45.600 This type of violence and messiness and racial division has to happen so that we, and so literally the end game with the result of it, so that we can install socialism, communism, and Marxism in America.

00:31:59.340 And they're right to get, to reach their goals, they're right.

00:32:03.240 This has to happen.

00:32:04.240 To reach the goals that I'm interested in and you're probably interested in, this stuff is unacceptable.

00:32:12.100 What about Al Sharpton?

00:32:13.060 I read that you once called him a domestic terrorist.

00:32:16.680 And I wonder, because you see him in the wake of any of these big racial incidents.

00:32:22.020 I just watched Shelby Steele's What Killed Michael Brown.

00:32:25.420 And he's in there, clips of him saying, you know, that blaming the country, blaming the cops, wasn't true.

00:32:33.220 Hands up, don't shoot, was a lie.

00:32:35.120 He never comes out and owns his disinformation.

00:32:38.880 In fact, he doubles down.

00:32:41.620 And yet still, there he is.

00:32:43.940 He gets promoted.

00:32:44.780 He's got his own show on MSNBC.

00:32:46.720 He gets promoted as sort of the messenger for aggrieved black people.

00:32:51.560 So what do you think?

00:32:54.280 And Al Sharpton, by the way, when my cousin died, he called me.

00:32:58.880 And, you know, I've had some engagement interaction with Al, limited.

00:33:05.020 But I will say in the moments, in the 24, 48 hours after my cousin was killed in Indianapolis, it was a good feel.

00:33:13.400 Al Sharpton calling with concern was a good feel.

00:33:17.000 But in reality, Al Sharpton has been, had a negative impact on race relations in America, has had a negative impact on African-Americans in our journey overall.

00:33:31.560 I don't regret calling him a domestic terrorist.

00:33:34.400 This is stirring up racial animosity and grievances is his job.

00:33:41.540 He's good at his job.

00:33:43.920 I think it's, it's, it's been a crime that he's been put out there as the example for black leadership in this country for a long time. 0.61

00:33:53.840 You have to.

00:33:54.840 And I'm not, you can't find any of my work where I'm some harsh critic of President Obama or any president.

00:34:03.800 But I do blame Obama for elevating Al Sharpton, bringing him into the White House, concerning one of his confidants, one of his counselors.

00:34:12.480 He, he, he justified and put a stamp of approval on Al Sharpton's race baiting, undignified, unmanned approach to, to race relations.

00:34:25.940 And I, it's funny, uh, Candace Owens keeps taking all this heat for talking about bring back manly man. 1.00

00:34:33.200 And, and she did it talking about Harry Styles and the way that he dresses, but it actually has a much bigger theme and point than just how people dress.

00:34:45.400 And because I, I, I look at Al Sharpton and a lot of the leadership right now, it's cowardly. 0.95

00:34:54.540 It is cowardly. 0.81

00:34:55.940 And particularly, you gotta remember, we're taking the Reverend out of his title.

00:35:00.320 He calls himself Reverend Al Sharpton.

00:35:02.140 He is supposed to be a man of faith.

00:35:04.360 And, and again, this is where it goes back to, uh, the importance of faith because faith removes fear.

00:35:12.380 Faith is the, the antibiotic for fear and, and people have reason to be fear, fearful, like, oh my God, we got COVID, you know, we got all this racial unrest, but faith is what it should get you beyond your fear and get you to stand up as a man or a woman and stand on your faith.

00:35:33.300 And the principles and, and the principles and, uh, integrity and, and the values that were instilled in you through your faith or through whatever your parents or grandparents or somebody, teacher coach, someone put in you.

00:35:45.720 And we just don't have that anymore.

00:35:48.480 And so everybody thinks they're smarter than God and they got the solution and the ways of the things taught in the Bible and the church, they're all outdated.

00:35:58.240 And we're going to go, no justice, no peace.

00:36:02.620 We're going to go to war and we're all, you know, Breonna Taylor.

00:36:06.800 And, uh, what was the woman that he first got in trouble with in New York a long time ago?

00:36:11.740 Uh, Tawana Brawley.

00:36:13.300 Tawana Brawley.

00:36:14.820 Yeah.

00:36:15.280 Michael Brown.

00:36:16.780 We are now, we're now, uh, the Rosa Parks of our generation are now all, uh, resisting criminals.

00:36:25.980 We're building shrines to George Floyd and Breonna Taylor and Jacob Blake and Rayshard Brooks and Eric Garner.

00:36:35.100 And they're now the greatest human beings, the greatest cultural icons for black America.

00:36:41.620 And we're going to war over them.

00:36:44.500 And I'm not trying to diminish them.

00:36:46.300 Uh, but again, again, Anton Butler, my cousin, who I helped love, who I helped raise and love and love.

00:36:54.760 Again, he's, he made some choices in life that put him in a difficult situation. 0.78

00:37:01.120 And I can't act like an idiot or lie to people and say like, oh my God, it was, he's this innocent victim. 0.99

00:37:10.480 And he was going to be the president of the United States had he not been cut down. 0.99

00:37:14.800 And George Floyd wasn't going to be the president.

00:37:17.380 George Floyd was probably going to remain a stick-up man and a criminal.

00:37:22.860 Uh, had he not had that unfortunate incident with, uh, Derek Chauvin, uh, Jacob Blake rap sheet or, you know, accusations by that woman.

00:37:35.040 And, you know, it's, so I, I, I, Al Sharpton has been a negative influence on black people in America.

00:37:47.800 Um, he's, he's, to me, he represents his goal.

00:37:53.700 He is responsible for the no justice, no peace slogan.

00:37:57.280 And we've been dealing with 30 years of that mentality, if not 40 years of that mentality.

00:38:03.180 And the results aren't good.

00:38:05.520 You know that I don't have to tell you that.

00:38:09.420 A black man speaking like that about Al Sharpton or George Floyd or Jacob Blake, 0.58

00:38:14.680 that you get called an uncle Tom, that, um, you, as you once wrote, the stewards of the zeitgeist do not love me or any other black person who would dare object to their racist manipulation of black consciousness and black culture.

00:38:29.280 And you say these stewards would see George Floyd as 100 times blacker than Ben Carson.

00:38:37.240 What do you mean by that?

00:38:38.060 I mean that the highest level of blackness is victimhood. 1.00

00:38:43.040 But there's no, if you're a victim, and again, this is why people are staging incidents. 0.95

00:38:50.380 Jussie Smollett was like, well, if I'm going to reach the highest stage of blackness, I need to be beat up by white racists and, you know, nearly lynched. 0.93

00:38:59.760 And so he staged an event. 0.93

00:39:01.680 You look at LeBron James with, without ever offering any credible proof.

00:39:06.180 This guy is worth a half billion dollars, but in order to reach the highest level of blackness, he had to pretend like someone spray-painted the N-word on his Brentwood mansion. 0.96

00:39:16.780 That he was, and he was in Ohio at the same time. 0.89

00:39:19.480 And he somehow used it as proof that whether you're LeBron James or just a guy on the street, if you're black, you know, America is just terrible or it's tough.

00:39:31.160 And I mean, this guy has been pampered since the age of 12. 0.92

00:39:35.160 Pampered.

00:39:35.540 Since he, once he showed that remarkable athletic talent, America responded by pampering that guy.

00:39:41.040 And that's why I call him the black Donald Trump. 0.68

00:39:42.720 You know, he wants to talk about Trump's privilege from being born into wealth.

00:39:46.560 There's the same privilege that comes along with that athletic wealth that he was born into.

00:39:52.840 And so, you know, they can all call me names, but they'll never call me a liar.

00:40:00.840 You can call me Uncle Tom.

00:40:02.480 You can call me this or that.

00:40:04.600 They'll never call me a liar.

00:40:06.480 The conversations, the things that I say in my column, the things I'm saying now, conversations I've had with black people my entire life and still have.

00:40:18.640 Where no one, when it's said, and I hear black people say the same things. 0.75

00:40:22.980 They just don't have the courage to say it publicly because, and particularly for entertainers and influences, the people, the liberals controlling the zeitgeist don't allow it. 0.83

00:40:35.640 They, they actually define blackness, not black people. 0.94

00:40:41.820 The liberals controlling Hollywood, the music industry, the social media apps, they define blackness. 0.99

00:40:52.340 Okay, so let me ask you this.

00:40:53.880 Let me ask you, because this is something I have observed over the past couple of years as I've looked at racial incidents that get blown up by the media or otherwise.

00:41:02.280 To me, I think you just hit the nail on the head.

00:41:04.680 To me, what's happening in the country right now is not a black white issue.

00:41:10.180 It is a liberal conservative issue because I have yet to meet a more conservative leaning black person who agrees with my white liberal neighbors on the upper west side about where relations are between races and what black people need to do to get ahead.

00:41:29.000 The black conservatives talk about these issues and even more centrist liberal blacks talk about these issues in a very different way than white progressives do. 0.84

00:41:40.720 And I, I wonder if that's, if we've been sort of, if we've been fooled into believing this is about a difference between race relations as opposed to yet another divisive political issue in which these white liberals cloak themselves in sort of the righteousness of standing up for an oppressed minority.

00:42:00.580 And conservatives retreat to the country and conservatives retreat to the individualist, you know, self-empowerment, personal responsibility.

00:42:07.480 America is a great place, place that they usually go.

00:42:11.480 To me, it feels much more like the latter.

00:42:13.040 What do you think?

00:42:13.520 I think you're right, but I would say, I would go a step further in terms of we've allowed so much foreign influence in America.

00:42:26.280 And this is where, and again, I'm sorry for the fear of people.

00:42:31.260 This is where I agree with President Trump and America first.

00:42:33.860 We've, we've, we've given our country over to foreign influence, China, the money that they spend in Hollywood, the money that they spend in American sports has totally perverted our country. 0.98

00:42:48.860 There is a long history of communist run countries using race as the tool to smear America.

00:43:01.220 This has been going on for a hundred years or more that, oh, okay.

00:43:07.280 You know, the West is fine, but the West is racist.

00:43:10.480 We're not, we're all comrades over here in Russia and blah, blah, blah.

00:43:15.680 And we're in China and blah, blah.

00:43:18.440 And so once you let the NBA be taken over by China and the NBA is number one interest becomes protecting their relationship with China.

00:43:29.580 Nike's number one interest becomes protecting their relationship with China to have access to that market and that much cheaper labor.

00:43:41.140 When you allow China to dictate the movies and the tone and even, again, there's been plenty of stories written about how dark skinned black people can't be in movies because of China.

00:43:52.660 And so I see all of this as trying to influence American culture.

00:44:00.340 They're using race to divide us and destabilize us. 0.96

00:44:04.220 They have us all focused on race, race, race, and how we're all at each other's throats over race.

00:44:12.980 And we're missing the bigger picture, that they're trying to remove our todayo-Christian values as a way to limit our freedom, destabilize our country, and make America fall. 0.99

00:44:26.240 And that's why my message, and I keep coming back to it, is those of us that are believers, regardless of race, we have to come together.

00:44:36.500 Because if you're a believer, you also believe in freedom.

00:44:41.640 Religious freedom, a founding principle in this country, is being eroded.

00:44:46.300 And if those of us that are believers, if we don't come together and stand on our faith, and again, that does not mean that we have to be perfect. 1.00

00:44:56.580 You're going to have to ignore the idiots that point out, oh, well, you had an affair, or your marriage didn't work out, or I caught you at a strip club. 0.98

00:45:11.040 So I have to ignore all of that, and I'm just keeping it real, and stand on your faith, and say, you know what? 1.00

00:45:19.160 All that's true.

00:45:20.560 But I believe in freedom.

00:45:23.820 I believe in the principles that made this country great and allowed us.

00:45:28.860 America has a history of 150 years, of being well ahead of the rest of the globe on freedom for Black people and racial equality.

00:45:42.280 We have been the world leaders.

00:45:44.920 We're being portrayed as if we're in last place, when we actually have been the leaders on these issues.

00:45:51.480 And the founding fathers have been demonized.

00:45:54.500 They were imperfect, and this is, again, but they weren't ashamed that they were Christians.

00:45:59.560 And that's why I think if somebody can claim to be a Christian and own slaves, well, I damn sure can claim to be a Christian and like to gamble and have a cocktail or two. 0.80

00:46:11.920 Absolutely.

00:46:13.440 So I think you might be beating yourself up too much about the strip clubs, too.

00:46:17.920 I personally don't see anything wrong in celebrating a beautiful woman's body if she's showing it to you consensually and making some money off of it.

00:46:25.000 I think that's just too puritanical.

00:46:27.020 And you can't let what your priest thinks influence every aspect of your life.

00:46:31.980 I'm not beating myself up that bad about America.

00:46:36.880 And I state that having not been in a strip club in three or four years.

00:46:41.160 But who knows?

00:46:42.560 Maybe I'll go to...

00:46:43.400 No, no.

00:46:43.700 We had this debate a couple years ago when the Miss America pageant started to get rid of the bathing suit competition.

00:46:51.200 And I just thought, whose weird idea of feminism is that? 1.00

00:46:53.800 If a woman who's smart and talented and articulate also has a banging body and wants to celebrate it, go for it, sister. 1.00

00:47:04.440 Back to Jason in one second.

00:47:05.860 But first, have you ever Googled yourself?

00:47:08.360 You know you have.

00:47:09.420 Your neighbors, how about that?

00:47:10.740 Well, the majority of Americans admit to keeping an eye on their online reputation.

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00:47:37.680 Before you bring someone new into your life and around the people you care so deeply for, consider trying Truthfinder.

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00:47:46.600 This might be the most important web search that you ever do, so do it.

00:47:49.720 Go to truthfinder.com slash Kelly right away to start searching.

00:47:53.660 Again, that's truthfinder.com slash Kelly.

00:47:56.560 Okay, I want to bring you this feature now that we call the Devil May Care All-Stars.

00:48:01.200 You know, my company name is Devil May Care Media, which is sort of a middle finger to the mainstream media.

00:48:07.780 And that's exactly what I intend it to be.

00:48:09.880 In any event, we try to celebrate people who have the same attitude we do when it comes to these incessant rules and restrictions we've been told we must follow,

00:48:18.520 but we never consented to, whether it's in the way we speak or the way we live, what have you.

00:48:24.120 And basically, we just want to shine a light on the people in America who embody the spirit of our company,

00:48:29.240 standing up, speaking truth to power, no matter the consequences.

00:48:32.300 And today, that brings us to Holly Susie from Providence, Rhode Island.

00:48:37.380 Susie's mother, Janet, sadly died this month after contracting COVID-19.

00:48:41.040 And Susie wanted to hold a small private outdoor burial for her mother, but she was told it's against the regulations of her state.

00:48:48.400 We're seeing that in so many places.

00:48:50.140 So instead of just taking it, she wrote a letter to the governor demanding answers, and she was right on.

00:48:56.640 Here's what she wrote.

00:48:57.220 This is a quote.

00:48:57.860 People can shop at Target, get their hair cut at a salon, eat indoors at restaurants,

00:49:01.960 but we cannot have a socially distanced burial outdoors for my mother.

00:49:06.380 Her seven grandchildren cannot attend.

00:49:08.300 Her older great-grandchildren cannot say goodbye.

00:49:12.040 How can this be?

00:49:13.100 She wrote, it disrespects my mother, who has already suffered so much and inflicts yet another pain on her family.

00:49:19.580 Good for her, right?

00:49:22.540 Holly says she's always been a rule follower, and her mom would be proud of her by going public to speak out.

00:49:27.800 She would have wanted to fight this, she said.

00:49:30.240 That's what she told the Providence Journal.

00:49:31.800 And just again, a word on my friend Janice Dean, who's been through the same thing.

00:49:34.860 Her, both of her husband, our friend Sean's parents died.

00:49:38.640 During the COVID-19 crisis, they were in New York nursing homes, where our governor thought it would be wise to send 6,000 COVID-positive patients.

00:49:47.800 And they were forced to bury Mickey and Dee with no funeral.

00:49:51.380 They didn't get to say goodbye to their own family members.

00:49:54.620 They followed the rules and then sat and watched in horror as the same doctors who said that would be unsafe okayed the Black Lives Matter protesters out in the streets by the thousand.

00:50:08.140 She felt the way Susie feels, which is Holly Susie feels, which is, I follow the rules and I want to follow the rules and I want to do what's responsible, but let's be reasonable.

00:50:18.040 Like, this is ridiculous to tell this woman she can't be outside having a socially distanced funeral.

00:50:24.100 She said she was going to have maybe 17 people all six feet apart in the outdoors. 0.51

00:50:27.800 And the answer was no.

00:50:29.640 Anyway, here's to Holly Susie, who fought back against absurd COVID restrictions to honor her mother.

00:50:35.620 They both sound like devil-may-care all-stars to me.

00:50:38.140 And now, back to Jason.

00:50:43.460 I want to talk to you about sports because I don't know a lot about sports, but I love OutKick.

00:50:48.060 I love Clay Travis and you and your columns, and they help me understand the news items in the sports world.

00:50:54.400 I don't really follow the athletics themselves, but I want my kids to participate in sports, and I think it's an important sort of backbone in building character.

00:51:02.640 And, you know, I get your point on China.

00:51:05.180 Of course, I had that interview with Mark Cuban where I pressed him on China and the NBA.

00:51:09.040 Meanwhile, the NBA is Black Lives Matter, Black Lives Matter, but they won't condemn China.

00:51:13.980 But it's not just China because what we've also seen in the NFL and NBA is like Colin Kaepernick, you know, and now he's led this whole movement and been very well rewarded for it financially in the wake of George Floyd with his deal with Nike.

00:51:29.400 You know, he's not, I don't think, controlled by China.

00:51:31.400 Now, this guy's out there being celebrated as a national hero because he takes the knee when the national anthem gets played.

00:51:38.620 And I've had battles with this guy on Twitter and Ava DeVernay, who's constantly defending him and attacking me, because I don't agree with this.

00:51:46.660 And I don't agree with players having to explain now why they won't kneel.

00:51:53.020 It's flipped in the wake of George Floyd.

00:51:54.800 And now you have to explain why you've chosen to stand, which is just nuts.

00:52:00.600 And so you explain that to me because that that doesn't appear to be a manipulation by China.

00:52:04.640 That that seems to be liberals.

00:52:06.660 Because they want to destabilize America.

00:52:12.740 Anything that brings us together is being torn down.

00:52:17.100 And sports have always been the greatest influence in American culture of bringing us together.

00:52:24.940 And you don't have to be very smart to figure that out.

00:52:29.140 But just look at the importance of Jackie Robinson breaking the color, Barry.

00:52:33.580 Go look at the importance of Jesse Owens winning four gold medals at the Berlin Olympics.

00:52:39.200 Go look at the importance of Joe Louis beating Max Schmeling in a boxing match in 1938, I believe.

00:52:48.600 Those big cultural moments, particularly Jesse Owens and Joe Louis early in the 1930s,

00:52:57.200 they brought America together celebrating black men as national heroes.

00:53:05.460 That was part of our racial progress.

00:53:09.400 That was setting up sports as the unifying thing in America.

00:53:16.340 That we all came together and scored in advance.

00:53:18.300 They played the national anthem.

00:53:19.660 We all pushed our politics aside.

00:53:22.360 And we just rooted for our teams and the athletes that represented our country.

00:53:28.240 And as popular as the cable news networks are and the end of a Bill O'Reilly was and Tucker Carlson and Megyn Kelly were,

00:53:39.660 none of it compared to the popularity of American sports on TV.

00:53:44.500 There is no greater cultural force than the NFL.

00:53:48.080 Well, number one TV show on ABC, ESPN, NBC, CBS, the NFL Network, and Fox Sports.

00:54:00.720 That's like six networks.

00:54:03.760 They're the number one show on.

00:54:05.520 Maybe remove ABC.

00:54:07.020 I can't.

00:54:07.460 The games are showed on ESPN.

00:54:09.640 Five television networks.

00:54:11.340 They're the number one show on.

00:54:12.660 It doesn't take live sports, you know, really popular on all the television networks.

00:54:19.660 It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out, oh, if we can promote division within sports, we can destabilize America and get them at each other's throat.

00:54:30.360 And so I look at Colin Kaepernick.

00:54:33.880 You know, his relationship with Nike has been going on for a long time.

00:54:37.680 LeBron James, obviously Nike's biggest ambassador at the moment.

00:54:42.360 That's why he's been so anti-American and so supportive of the Black Lives Matter movement. 0.99

00:54:47.960 It's what keeps them in good standing in China.

00:54:52.420 Nike is dependent on the labor and the market in China.

00:54:56.820 And so I think they're all connected together.

00:55:00.580 The goal for our competitors, and I can't even be mad at China and any of these foreign countries that have a – they're competitive.

00:55:09.820 And we've done the same thing to them.

00:55:12.360 And so they're trying to destabilize our country, and they're doing it through athletes and the sports world.

00:55:18.640 There's no better place to do it.

00:55:20.560 And even before Kaepernick took a knee, I could see it coming, like, wow, sports has an incredible place in American culture.

00:55:30.320 And if you really want to destabilize America, promote racial division and polarization inside of sports.

00:55:38.380 And now you've taken a sanctuary, and it's something that brought us together.

00:55:43.520 The national anthem was, like, non-controversial.

00:55:46.900 We all stood.

00:55:47.780 It's just a little symbolic moment that's important for national unity.

00:55:54.840 Megan, if you just – pride in America has been demonized.

00:55:58.380 I mean, how could you have a country when people make you feel bad about taking pride in the country?

00:56:10.000 You can't have a country if everybody's like, well, everybody's running around taking a knee and begging, oh, forgive me for my privilege or American privilege, white privilege.

00:56:21.940 I'm ashamed to be an American.

00:56:24.840 It's hard to sustain the country.

00:56:28.380 And that's – again, I'm really –

00:56:31.500 Well, I don't have a disagreement with that, but I don't think Colin Kaepernick, when he took the knee a couple years ago, was thinking about China.

00:56:39.420 I think he was thinking about himself as a victim, you know?

00:56:43.000 And even LeBron, as you point out, he somehow has convinced himself that he is a victim of a systemically racist country that made him 100 millionaire multi-times over.

00:56:54.340 You know, it's like, even, you know, even Michelle Obama talking about it.

00:56:59.540 Let me say this, Megan, and this will be probably the most controversial thing I'll say on here, or most misunderstood. 1.00

00:57:06.000 It's, look, the left always promotes black idiots. 1.00

00:57:12.680 The left will have you believe that LeBron James is more accomplished and smarter than Ben Carson. 1.00

00:57:21.800 Any time – any black man who is really intelligent, really accomplished in the educational field, tends to get demonized.

00:57:33.180 And so, Colin Kaepernick – and again, I'm not speculating – this guy was my favorite football player before he took the knee.

00:57:43.020 Been following his career, you know, coaches and players that played with him.

00:57:47.980 Colin Kaepernick just isn't very smart.

00:57:51.460 He's been manipulated by his girlfriend, Ness Nitti, or Ness, or whatever her name is.

00:57:56.600 And she knew what she was doing. 0.92

00:57:59.160 Colin Kaepernick doesn't know a damn thing he's doing. 0.99

00:58:02.620 LeBron James, not very smart. 0.98

00:58:05.320 Pampered, brought through school to make sure he – I don't even blame him.

00:58:09.200 If I had that much athletic ability, I wouldn't be that smart.

00:58:12.100 I'd just try to make it to that NBA finish line and get that money.

00:58:15.480 But he's not very smart.

00:58:16.780 And I know people get all upset. 1.00

00:58:18.920 LeBron James, go read his damn Twitter feed. 0.99

00:58:20.960 The guy can barely – punctuation, grammar, all that childlike. 1.00

00:58:27.600 And so, you know, the left puts up people that aren't very smart and puts them on a pedestal.

00:58:35.840 And that's why, again, actors, actresses, athletes, yeah, those are the spokesmen for black people.

00:58:44.280 That's not Ben Carson.

00:58:45.840 That's not Clarence Thomas.

00:58:46.940 That's not people of great substance who have been in the intellectual Olympics their entire life.

00:58:55.000 Well, I know.

00:58:56.560 But you're oversimplifying, of course.

00:58:58.540 I mean, you've got amazing black intellectuals who are on the other side of this as well.

00:59:01.980 And I, in passing, mentioned Michelle Obama, who's very well-educated, very smart.

00:59:06.720 You may not agree with her, but you can't say she's not smart. 0.50

00:59:09.360 And, I mean, Henry Louis Gates, you could go down the list of smart black people who feel differently about this issue.

00:59:15.820 I don't know LeBron James or how smart he is.

00:59:17.840 Let me give you my knock on those guys, though.

00:59:21.040 The people that want to cut $100 million deals with Netflix, they know what they have to say.

00:59:29.040 The people, because this is the point I didn't get to make about my criticism of Al Sharpe just because I forgot.

00:59:35.240 Listen, the 1960s, when John Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy, and Malcolm X got killed, that really elevated the stakes for leaders.

00:59:48.140 And most people just don't have the courage to be leaders.

00:59:53.480 And that's how you get guys like Al Sharpe.

00:59:57.000 And it becomes about the money.

00:59:59.200 And it becomes people without a great deal of integrity and leadership positions.

01:00:04.620 Because they're never going to.

01:00:05.680 And, again, I look at, you know, I don't want to be hypercritical of Michelle Obama and all these guys.

01:00:12.000 But these guys are all in it for the money.

01:00:13.920 And that's why I haven't really been involved in politics, because Republican, Democrat, whomever, they're all in it for the money.

01:00:22.280 What interested me about President Trump is like, well, he already had the money.

01:00:27.680 And so he's not that interested in it.

01:00:30.260 And so I find it kind of fascinating.

01:00:32.420 But I look at a lot of the people on the left as it's just a paycheck.

01:00:37.100 It's just how they can get richer.

01:00:38.720 I really want to get your take on what's happening in sports in general, apart from the politics of them.

01:00:46.660 One of my big problems as a mother is how sports now is losing its competitive nature, right?

01:00:55.860 The participation trophy approach to athletics.

01:00:59.720 And trust me, I have kids.

01:01:02.120 We don't necessarily play a ton of sports together sometimes.

01:01:04.720 But even just playing games, I think about it.

01:01:07.300 You know, do I want to see my kid cry because he's lost five times in a row at whatever game it is?

01:01:12.340 No, I don't want to crush his spirit.

01:01:14.400 But he also needs to learn how to lose, how to lose well, how to take it, you know, like a, to use a sexist phrase, like a man.

01:01:22.080 And I think that's important. 0.91

01:01:24.780 And when they get participation trophies, I throw them in the garbage.

01:01:27.280 And now they know they know that they don't even bring them home because they're going right in the garbage.

01:01:31.020 Some people would say that's unkind.

01:01:32.500 Some people say I'm teaching them the wrong lessons.

01:01:34.200 It's good to get in there.

01:01:35.200 Get in the arena.

01:01:35.760 Now you should get a trophy for showing up.

01:01:37.400 But we seem to be going the other way.

01:01:39.480 So what happened?

01:01:42.800 Look, the things that made us great are, you know, being undermined.

01:01:50.940 And listen, I think this is all connected to the feud between patriarchy and matriarchy.

01:02:02.940 And is masculinity toxic?

01:02:07.040 And I think that the side that believes masculinity is toxic is winning.

01:02:15.360 And so they're trying to emasculate the sports world.

01:02:19.540 And they're trying to make things less competitive so that no one's feelings ever get hurt.

01:02:27.100 And it's comical.

01:02:28.660 And it's comical.

01:02:31.860 I can remember my first varsity football practice in high school in pads.

01:02:38.500 And one of the assistant coaches called me the P-word.

01:02:45.180 I was a sophomore in high school.

01:02:46.740 I was a talented kid.

01:02:48.240 But the year before, I played bad on the freshman football team.

01:02:52.720 In the biggest game of the year, I had a bad performance.

01:02:55.760 And so the first day I'm practicing with a varsity football team, coach named Tony Burchett.

01:03:01.660 We got pads on.

01:03:02.880 We're about to start hitting.

01:03:04.860 He called me the P-word out in front of the entire team.

01:03:08.500 And I was so livid, you know, I just started destroying people in practice.

01:03:14.840 And I destroyed people for the next three years and got a college scholarship.

01:03:19.060 And Tony Burchett, who was just an assistant coach, he went on to become the principal of our high school,

01:03:25.320 the superintendent of our school district.

01:03:27.320 The guy's one of my best friends in life.

01:03:30.360 Love the guy.

01:03:31.480 He loves me.

01:03:32.340 There's nothing we wouldn't do for each other.

01:03:34.220 But we're trying to eliminate that.

01:03:38.280 In today's society, I'm not sure if he would ever take that chance to call me the P-word out in front of everybody because that would be bad.

01:03:45.760 But I just think sports are being emasculated.

01:03:51.780 I think men are being made to feel bad for expressing any kind of masculine energy.

01:03:58.280 And that is, you know, we just had something in the news cycle recently.

01:04:05.180 The kicker at Vanderbilt, Sarah Fuller, got a big participation trophy. 1.00

01:04:11.140 She was named SEC Special Teams Player of the Week for kicking a ball 25 yards and running to the sideline.

01:04:21.240 And she allegedly broke the gender barrier in major college football. 1.00

01:04:27.660 And I don't get it.

01:04:31.200 It's, you know.

01:04:32.960 So wait, I didn't follow that.

01:04:34.380 So she didn't do an extraordinary kick. 0.94

01:04:36.720 It wasn't that the kick was anything special.

01:04:38.520 It was just that it was done by a woman. 0.99

01:04:40.760 Yeah.

01:04:41.820 Vanderbilt, because of COVID, lost a lot of their players and needed a kicker.

01:04:48.020 Uh, they recruited her off of the women's soccer team.

01:04:54.840 Uh, they don't have, uh, varsity men's soccer at Vanderbilt.

01:04:59.620 Most of the SEC schools don't.

01:05:01.840 They do have club soccer.

01:05:04.020 They do have, anyway, Vanderbilt got steamrolled by Missouri 41 to nothing.

01:05:09.740 She kicked the ball off to start the second half.

01:05:12.940 Kicked it, a squib kick about 25 yards directional.

01:05:17.940 And she ran straight to the sidelines. 0.99

01:05:19.880 And the mainstream sports media, it led SportsCenter and ESPN.

01:05:24.360 It was compared to Jackie Robinson breaking the color.

01:05:27.580 Oh, stop it.

01:05:29.240 Yes, I'm telling you.

01:05:30.620 Yes, it was.

01:05:31.860 And it goes to your point.

01:05:35.420 And keep in mind, this woman, this young woman, is an accomplished, high-level soccer player.

01:05:43.680 And what drove me crazy about this is she doesn't need her athleticism validated by participating in a man's sport.

01:05:53.380 She's a great athlete. 0.87

01:05:55.400 She should be celebrated in the sport she's actually good at. 0.90

01:05:59.500 And honestly, her crossover to football should be a fun little feature.

01:06:04.360 Like, oh, this is something we don't see every day.

01:06:05.780 Look at her.

01:06:06.320 Boom.

01:06:06.680 You move on.

01:06:07.880 No, there's no comparison to Jackie Robinson.

01:06:10.460 And it's insulting to her, too, right?

01:06:13.280 Like you're saying, to try to make it into more than it was.

01:06:16.880 To me, it's insulting to women athletes that it says that the highest level they can achieve is competing against men.

01:06:27.700 And I completely reject that.

01:06:31.300 This woman competing in a sport that isn't her strong suit to where literally someone could argue she's the worst player that's ever played in the SEC. 1.00

01:06:43.260 But now that's a moment of achievement.

01:06:48.860 It was crazy.

01:06:51.820 I think it diminishes women. 1.00

01:06:53.460 I think that, you know, there's a lot.

01:06:56.200 Look, I'm not a dad.

01:06:57.540 So I heard from a lot of dads.

01:06:59.760 I wrote a piece about it.

01:07:00.740 I heard from a lot of dads.

01:07:01.900 I sat and watched that with my daughter.

01:07:04.220 And it was a moving moment and blah, blah, blah.

01:07:07.480 And I was like, hey, I'm not sure if you should be messaging to your daughter that, you know, her highest level as an athlete is playing men's football.

01:07:18.580 Or even if she got there and she did something extraordinary.

01:07:24.800 If she, you know, kicked a field goal under difficult circumstances, maybe.

01:07:28.440 I just don't think it's sending the wrong message to her and little girls, too, which is this is what you have to do to be celebrated.

01:07:35.320 You're right.

01:07:35.740 You can be celebrated in your female sport, in your female competition. 0.85

01:07:39.700 And if you want to cross over to the men's world, you should only be celebrated if you compete at that level, if you do something that would be extraordinary for a man.

01:07:47.020 Otherwise, there is some sexism built in.

01:07:49.100 I feel the same way about this, Jason, as I do about when, you know, we're told like the Smithsonian telling us that terms like personal responsibility are are white supremacist terms that if you believe in that, you're a white supremacist because that doesn't apply to black people.

01:08:05.300 Well, that's racist and it's sexist to say that somehow it's toxically masculine to be pro achievement, pro risk, pro competitiveness, pro the wanting to avoid appearing weak.

01:08:21.560 Well, I feel all of those things and it doesn't make me masculine.

01:08:26.500 Those can be feminine attributes, too. 1.00

01:08:29.140 And the people who are now trying to reverse all this, whether they're talking about toxic masculinity or white supremacy, are themselves engaging in sexism or racism by trying to co-opt these terms for one group and not the other.

01:08:42.140 There's no question that they're trying to fix racism with racism.

01:08:47.040 And I'm not even sure if they're trying to fix racism.

01:08:50.240 I just think they're trying to install racism.

01:08:52.480 And I've been saying this for the last month that the ideological descendants of slave owners are the people on the left. 0.54

01:09:06.880 This whole notion that black is a special category in America that requires a capital B because you can lump all black people together and they're a special group and they're different than everybody else. 0.96

01:09:22.480 Well, that's the same thing they were saying three or four hundred years ago when they determined, hey, you're black. 0.98

01:09:29.520 Therefore, you're a slave here in the South. 0.96

01:09:32.140 Your skin color makes you different than everybody else. 1.00

01:09:35.360 Therefore, we limit your freedom.

01:09:37.580 And so here we are 400 years later and the left, you know, has celebrated the Associated Press. 0.54

01:09:43.540 We're going to give black people a capital B. 1.00

01:09:45.720 No one else gets it. 0.99

01:09:47.060 They're different.

01:09:48.040 They're special.

01:09:48.700 Their freedom of thought and everything else is limited.

01:09:53.120 They're all liberal.

01:09:54.020 They all think the same.

01:09:55.480 Joe Biden even said it.

01:09:56.860 They all think the same.

01:09:58.180 Blah, blah, blah.

01:10:00.080 They're installing, reinstalling.

01:10:02.700 We went through several hundred years of struggle to remove laws from America that limited the freedom of black people.

01:10:12.900 We went through a civil war.

01:10:14.860 We went through a painful civil rights struggle where people lost their lives, sacrificed their lives to remove those laws.

01:10:21.680 And I keep telling people, Megan, America promises freedom.

01:10:27.700 That is it.

01:10:29.180 All these people that are clamoring for America to love them.

01:10:33.800 That, again, I'm going to go circle back to my favorite topic.

01:10:37.820 God promises love.

01:10:40.100 America promises freedom.

01:10:42.440 You need to, you're looking for love in all the wrong places.

01:10:46.320 Enjoy this American freedom.

01:10:48.820 Fight for this American freedom.

01:10:50.360 And this may make me seem sexist, and certainly it'll make me seem out of date.

01:10:56.700 I feel as a man, it is my responsibility, if necessary, to violently protect the freedoms that we have here in America.

01:11:08.580 If it comes down, oh, there's going to be some violence to protect this freedom, I feel like as a man, it's my responsibility to do that.

01:11:15.080 That may make me sexist.

01:11:16.260 I'm sure there's some women out there. 1.00

01:11:17.460 I hope there's some women out there like, you know what, I'm going to pick up a musket too. 1.00

01:11:21.020 I'll fight with you for the freedom.

01:11:23.020 But that's all I want America to provide me is freedom.

01:11:26.820 I'll do the rest.

01:11:28.200 If I'm looking for love, I'm going to ask a woman, or mostly I should appropriately ask God, love myself.

01:11:36.340 And if some woman actually loves me, that's just gravy. 1.00

01:11:39.440 That's icing on the cake.

01:11:41.760 Well, I did read in one of the profiles of you that your nickname is Big Sexy.

01:11:46.780 So I'm thinking you don't have much problem in that department.

01:11:52.020 The Big Sexy is Big Mouth Sexy Opinions.

01:11:56.740 Oh, that's less exciting.

01:12:00.020 Less exciting.

01:12:01.560 But I do all right, okay?

01:12:04.320 When I put my mind to it, I do all right.

01:12:06.060 So here's to it, because I've really admired you.

01:12:09.380 I've really enjoyed listening to you on the pods, watching you on Twitter, watching you on Tucker's show and elsewhere.

01:12:16.160 So more of that, please.

01:12:18.000 And good luck.

01:12:19.620 It's been a pleasure, Jason.

01:12:20.800 Thank you so much.

01:12:21.620 I appreciate it.

01:12:22.360 Today's episode is brought to you in part by ScoreMaster.

01:12:27.560 See how many points ScoreMaster can add to your credit score today.

01:12:31.480 Visit scoremaster.com slash MK now.

01:12:34.620 Thank you for listening, but I've got to tell you while I have your attention.

01:12:37.180 Our next show on Wednesday, maybe the most powerful piece of interviewing I've ever done in my life.

01:12:41.820 And not for the reasons you think.

01:12:43.940 This is the show I told you about a month ago where I was like, oh my God, my team just told me, like in an email, like, oh, we've got the following guests lined up.

01:12:51.760 And they just threw these two in here like it was nothing.

01:12:53.920 And I said, I'm going to keep it a secret, but I'll tell you soon who it is.

01:12:57.280 And it happens to be the two star actors of the only movie I've ever deeply cared about.

01:13:03.820 I don't have star envy or sort of that, you know, thing with celebrities for anyone.

01:13:09.880 A little bit Judge Judy, but other than her, I just, I don't know.

01:13:14.620 I don't feel it.

01:13:15.180 When I look at celebrities, I don't feel that like, oh, except for these two.

01:13:18.700 And you might not even know their names when I say them.

01:13:21.760 Do you know the names Peter Ostrom and Julie Dawn Cole?

01:13:26.260 These people happen to be better known as Charlie Bucket and Veruca Salt.

01:13:31.860 And they were the stars of Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.

01:13:35.120 I know I'm not the only one who loves this movie.

01:13:37.380 Millions and millions of people around the world love it.

01:13:39.360 It's become a cult thing.

01:13:41.420 And even if it's not, if you're not in the cults, I'm sure you've seen the movie and

01:13:44.660 you understand why some people really love it.

01:13:47.080 It's got special significance to me for reasons we'll get into.

01:13:50.380 But I have to tell you, I don't remember when I haven't enjoyed an interview more.

01:13:55.820 And it was really some really powerful moments in it.

01:13:58.820 The only interview I've ever done in my life.

01:14:00.680 And now I'm 50 where I burst out into tears as soon as it started.

01:14:04.880 I was not expecting that.

01:14:06.560 I don't think my team was expecting that either.

01:14:07.980 So if you'd like to hear that, don't miss Wednesday's show.

01:14:10.920 You can make sure you get it by going and subscribing to our program right now, our podcast,

01:14:15.160 and making sure you download, rate, and review.

01:14:18.000 Definitely review after you hear that episode because I'd love to hear what you think.

01:14:21.560 And whether, even if you're not a fan of the movie, whether the interview makes you want

01:14:24.700 to see it or look at it in a new light.

01:14:28.000 Love to hear that.

01:14:29.040 And we'll talk on Wednesday.

01:14:30.280 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

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The Megyn Kelly Show - December 21, 2020

Jason Whitlock on the Importance of Faith, Racial Division, and Sports ｜ Ep. 40

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