The Megyn Kelly Show - Jocko Willink on Responding to Adversity, Personal Responsibility, and Parenting

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00:00:30.740 When I found out my friend got a great deal on a wool coat from Winners,

00:00:34.500 I started wondering, is every fabulous item I see from Winners?

00:00:39.060 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans.

00:00:41.980 Are those from Winners?

00:00:43.520 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings?

00:00:45.980 Did she pay full price?

00:00:47.320 Or that leather tote? Or that cashmere sweater?

00:00:49.560 Or those knee-high boots?

00:00:51.000 That dress? That jacket? Those shoes?

00:00:53.120 Is anyone paying full price for anything?

00:00:56.580 Stop wondering. Start winning.

00:00:58.640 Winners. Find fabulous for less.

00:01:01.340 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:03.240 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:01:12.620 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:01:14.360 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:15.940 We are off for a week this summer,

00:01:17.760 but we are resurfacing some of our best shows

00:01:20.300 from the archives for you to enjoy.

00:01:22.320 Today, I'm bringing you my conversation

00:01:24.320 with the one and only Jocko Willink.

00:01:27.280 What a badass.

00:01:28.860 Jocko is a retired U.S. Navy SEAL,

00:01:31.120 best-selling author, and host of The Jocko Podcast.

00:01:35.280 And our discussion for March of 2021

00:01:37.000 was one that stuck with me and how.

00:01:40.140 We talked about adversity and grief,

00:01:42.500 dealing with breakups and the deaths of loved ones,

00:01:45.100 personal responsibility, and victimhood,

00:01:47.720 and amazingly inspiring stories of Navy SEAL.

00:01:52.120 He is the ultimate in taking responsibility,

00:01:55.580 being strong, being a man,

00:01:58.160 and showing others the way.

00:02:00.140 We also had a fascinating conversation about parenting

00:02:02.720 that I still think about and am using to this day.

00:02:06.580 I think you're going to love this one.

00:02:07.900 And we will be back live with you next week.

00:02:12.620 After reading through so much of your stuff,

00:02:14.740 and I've listened to so many of your podcasts now,

00:02:16.580 and your interviews with other people,

00:02:18.140 because I really wanted to prepare for this.

00:02:19.680 I just deeply respect you.

00:02:21.380 I thought to myself,

00:02:22.640 one of the benefits of my own life

00:02:24.120 has been being exposed to a lot of men in particular

00:02:27.160 in the military,

00:02:28.160 but men and women in the military,

00:02:29.560 because that's what you sound like.

00:02:31.640 Military men and women are no bullshit.

00:02:34.300 They don't see themselves as victims.

00:02:36.520 They're strong.

00:02:37.480 They lean into strength.

00:02:38.900 They're humble.

00:02:40.520 They want to know more about other people.

00:02:42.840 Like, when I heard all these attributes about you

00:02:45.220 and what you say it takes to make a leader,

00:02:46.580 I thought,

00:02:47.120 this is what being in the military does to you.

00:02:49.780 So before we get to that,

00:02:51.020 let's start,

00:02:51.440 let's talk about little Jocko,

00:02:52.980 because I was curious,

00:02:54.740 like a guy as strong as you are,

00:02:56.420 not even just your physical strength,

00:02:57.840 I'm talking about your emotional strength.

00:02:59.400 Are you born like that?

00:03:00.520 Did you come into this world?

00:03:01.720 Were you sort of born to be the Jocko you are now?

00:03:04.500 Or were you kind of like the little weakling

00:03:06.440 who got pushed around by other kids

00:03:08.520 and then resolved to be different?

00:03:10.560 Well, that's kind of a cool thing

00:03:11.520 about when you're little,

00:03:12.620 is when you're a little kid,

00:03:14.280 there's always going to be kids

00:03:15.280 that are bigger than you.

00:03:16.100 If they're two years older than you,

00:03:17.420 they're bigger than you

00:03:18.080 and they're stronger than you.

00:03:19.360 And so if you're a kid,

00:03:20.940 you're always going to get,

00:03:22.520 you're always going to be picked on by people,

00:03:24.080 no matter who you are.

00:03:25.260 So I think that's going to come to everybody.

00:03:27.660 And certainly, you know,

00:03:28.760 that was me too.

00:03:29.740 I would get, I would talk too much

00:03:32.580 or say something that I should have said

00:03:33.680 to something, somebody that was older than me

00:03:35.700 or bigger than me.

00:03:36.620 And I'd have to pay the price

00:03:38.000 just like anybody else does at that young age.

00:03:40.600 And, but, but ever since I was a little kid,

00:03:42.400 the only thing I actually ever remember

00:03:45.300 wanting to do as far as a profession

00:03:48.240 was, was to be some kind of a commando.

00:03:50.940 And so that's what I ended up doing.

00:03:53.300 You know, I ran around in the woods

00:03:54.880 and played army all the time when I was a kid.

00:03:56.640 And then I just never grew up, but yeah,

00:03:58.580 so it's all I ever wanted to do.

00:04:00.540 So you're from Litchfield County, Connecticut.

00:04:02.580 Is that right?

00:04:03.580 Yeah.

00:04:04.180 Okay.

00:04:04.500 So this is, so for the listeners who don't know this,

00:04:06.680 this is like one of the most beautiful places on earth.

00:04:08.540 It's bucolic.

00:04:09.560 It's a little sleepy.

00:04:11.160 It's much more country than it is city.

00:04:13.640 And it's where all of New York would love to go

00:04:16.280 and spend their weekends, but it's too expensive.

00:04:17.840 But, but it's amazing.

00:04:19.960 And I wondered, like, I can picture you

00:04:22.380 running around the woods up there,

00:04:23.400 but like politically it's about,

00:04:25.420 it's a little bit more Republican leaning these days

00:04:27.300 than it, than I think it used to be.

00:04:28.560 But were, were you part of a political family growing up?

00:04:33.320 You know, both my parents were school teachers.

00:04:35.200 And so, you know, they were just kind of working all the time.

00:04:40.080 And, you know, my dad would have some other jobs

00:04:42.200 to help bring in money.

00:04:43.780 And so they were just working all the time.

00:04:46.020 I wouldn't say we were the most political family

00:04:48.280 in the world.

00:04:50.000 You know, my dad's pretty conservative.

00:04:51.960 My mom's a little, a little more liberal.

00:04:55.040 And I really didn't care very much

00:04:58.000 and just wanted to go in the military.

00:05:00.320 Did you have other, other people in the military

00:05:02.440 in your family?

00:05:03.540 My grandfather was in the army for 20 years.

00:05:06.540 And so he retired out of the army,

00:05:08.800 but my dad, my dad got kicked out of ROTC.

00:05:12.460 So my dad always says that the military gene

00:05:15.260 skips a generation.

00:05:16.600 So that was my, but in Connecticut,

00:05:20.340 in, in that small part of Connecticut,

00:05:22.580 there's not a lot of people that go in the military.

00:05:25.060 So I was a little bit, I mean, I was definitely naive,

00:05:27.820 not, not very, very well informed

00:05:29.680 about what I was getting into,

00:05:31.340 but I just knew I wanted to do,

00:05:33.180 hopefully carry a machine gun one day.

00:05:35.100 So that's what I did.

00:05:36.580 Were you a tough guy in high school?

00:05:38.340 Like, you know, was the,

00:05:39.800 was the Jacko of today predictable at all

00:05:42.180 based on if I saw the sophomore year of high school, you?

00:05:45.720 Yep.

00:05:46.740 You, you, the, the, the track is pretty clear.

00:05:49.820 How so?

00:05:50.660 I mean, you just see, I, you know,

00:05:52.360 I was just, I was just kind of into that,

00:05:55.000 into that mentality.

00:05:56.340 You know, I've, I got in trouble

00:05:57.800 on my soccer team for singing military cadences

00:06:02.360 while we were, you know, running and stuff like that.

00:06:05.460 So that's what I wanted to do.

00:06:07.800 Yeah.

00:06:08.440 Pretty ridiculous.

00:06:09.400 I know.

00:06:09.840 It's amazing.

00:06:10.300 It was like in you and you knew it.

00:06:11.880 I mean, is it true that your dad had doubts?

00:06:14.460 Uh, yeah, my, so I was also,

00:06:16.540 I was also a very rebellious kid.

00:06:18.420 So I liked kind of hardcore and heavy metal music.

00:06:22.840 And I had, I've always have,

00:06:24.900 and still have a rebellious streak in me

00:06:28.160 that runs pretty strong.

00:06:29.640 And so my dad, when I,

00:06:32.020 I didn't even tell my dad,

00:06:33.380 I was joining the Navy.

00:06:34.040 I just came home one day and said,

00:06:35.020 I joined the Navy.

00:06:36.040 And he said, what are you going to do in the Navy?

00:06:37.280 And I said, I'm going to go on the seal teams.

00:06:39.140 And he said, you're going to hate it.

00:06:40.780 And I said, well, why do you think I'm going to hate it?

00:06:42.620 And he said, cause you don't like authority

00:06:43.920 and you don't like anybody telling you what to do.

00:06:46.060 And I said, yeah, but dad, I'm going in the seal teams.

00:06:48.460 It's a team.

00:06:49.180 There's no bosses in the seal teams.

00:06:50.700 And of course that's completely naive to think that.

00:06:54.360 But once I got in there,

00:06:55.680 I was very happy because it's a blank slate.

00:06:58.840 No one cared where you came from.

00:07:00.340 No one cared what you did or didn't do.

00:07:02.040 They didn't care if your parents had money

00:07:03.580 or didn't have money.

00:07:04.240 It's just a, it's just a blank slate.

00:07:06.200 And if you work hard, you move up

00:07:09.100 and you get recognized and you get more responsibility.

00:07:12.160 And with more responsibility, you can do more.

00:07:14.640 So it was a great environment for me.

00:07:16.140 I loved it.

00:07:17.480 Total meritocracy.

00:07:18.700 A hundred percent.

00:07:19.840 So now I read that your father told you,

00:07:22.520 and this would become relevant

00:07:23.340 to your seal training, of course,

00:07:24.700 you were not allowed to quit anything.

00:07:26.680 You couldn't quit anything.

00:07:27.760 And I thought nothing.

00:07:29.280 Like what if,

00:07:29.820 what if you selected the wrong arts and crafts course?

00:07:31.900 Like how seriously did you guys take that?

00:07:34.160 Yeah.

00:07:34.320 My dad was not a real big fan of quitting things.

00:07:37.280 So I think that definitely got ingrained in me

00:07:39.460 as, as a young kid.

00:07:41.680 And, you know, I, it's, it's,

00:07:44.240 I think it's a pretty good trait to have.

00:07:46.240 And, you know, as I grew up

00:07:47.500 and I actually recognize that it,

00:07:49.000 it's taken to an extreme,

00:07:50.320 just like anything else,

00:07:51.120 it can actually become a negative thing.

00:07:53.060 And I'd get these young seal officers

00:07:54.740 when I, much later in my career,

00:07:56.180 when I was in charge of training

00:07:57.260 that would try and execute

00:07:59.920 some kind of a training mission.

00:08:01.520 And they would be failing

00:08:02.980 and getting the guys shot with paintball

00:08:04.940 and failing the mission

00:08:06.420 and having guys put down.

00:08:08.320 And they would keep going

00:08:09.760 and keep going and keep going.

00:08:11.140 And I would pull them aside and say,

00:08:12.700 Hey, look, there's a time to retreat.

00:08:14.500 You know, it's not necessarily quitting,

00:08:15.800 but there's a time you got to back off,

00:08:17.440 retreat, reassess the situation,

00:08:18.840 and then go back at it.

00:08:20.240 But yeah, I'm not really big into quitting.

00:08:23.460 And I would say

00:08:24.200 that definitely came from my dad.

00:08:25.700 Now, is it to the point where

00:08:27.120 if you start a book and it's bad,

00:08:30.380 will you keep going?

00:08:31.640 Like just because you need to finish the book

00:08:33.320 or will you abandon it?

00:08:34.940 No, if books aren't good,

00:08:36.640 I'm not wasting my time with them.

00:08:38.880 So I read a ton of books for my podcast

00:08:41.180 and usually I can make it,

00:08:43.220 I can tell within 10 pages

00:08:45.440 if this book is a winner or a loser.

00:08:47.400 And if it's a loser,

00:08:48.380 I shut that book

00:08:48.960 and I move on to the next one.

00:08:50.460 Yes.

00:08:50.800 Okay.

00:08:51.040 I like that because I know

00:08:51.900 you also are a big believer

00:08:52.980 in not wasting time.

00:08:54.000 It's our most precious commodity.

00:08:55.200 So I'm with you 100%.

00:08:56.560 My husband, Doug,

00:08:57.720 he can't do it.

00:08:58.900 He's an author

00:08:59.380 and he just can't,

00:09:00.780 like no matter whether

00:09:01.720 he likes the book or not,

00:09:02.460 he will finish it.

00:09:03.600 I point the audience

00:09:04.680 to the book Hirohito,

00:09:05.960 which was like 2000 pages

00:09:07.900 and poor Doug was not enjoying it,

00:09:09.460 but man, he labored through.

00:09:11.140 And I just thought,

00:09:12.120 why?

00:09:12.540 But why?

00:09:13.540 You don't have to live.

00:09:14.540 It's like when somebody

00:09:15.200 serves you a bad drink,

00:09:16.180 you don't have to finish that.

00:09:17.340 A bad meal,

00:09:17.920 you don't have to eat that.

00:09:19.180 We only get to live once.

00:09:20.400 Okay.

00:09:20.620 So you're in the perfect spot

00:09:22.280 when you find yourself

00:09:23.000 in the Navy at 18.

00:09:24.460 Did you do it like

00:09:25.080 as soon as you could?

00:09:26.200 Yep.

00:09:27.000 Yep, I did.

00:09:27.640 18 years old.

00:09:28.240 Okay.

00:09:28.460 And you knew it was going

00:09:29.120 to be SEAL team.

00:09:29.900 And forgive me

00:09:30.660 because this I don't know.

00:09:31.900 Do you sign up

00:09:32.940 for SEAL training right away

00:09:34.700 or do you have to spend

00:09:35.520 some time in the Navy

00:09:36.700 before you can try

00:09:37.560 to be a specialist?

00:09:38.160 I signed right up

00:09:39.480 for SEAL training

00:09:40.680 and you've got to pass

00:09:41.840 a bunch of screening tests

00:09:42.780 when you get to boot camp

00:09:43.840 and as you graduate

00:09:44.920 from boot camp

00:09:45.600 and then,

00:09:46.500 but my contract was

00:09:47.920 I got a chance

00:09:49.160 to take those tests

00:09:50.440 and if I pass those tests,

00:09:51.880 I got to go to SEAL training

00:09:53.680 and that's exactly what I did.

00:09:55.900 Mm-hmm.

00:09:56.480 And you saw it then

00:09:58.060 and you see it now,

00:09:58.780 I imagine,

00:09:59.300 as an opportunity,

00:10:00.340 a great opportunity

00:10:01.000 for young people.

00:10:02.680 Yeah.

00:10:02.940 I mean,

00:10:03.540 it's awesome.

00:10:05.620 It's so fun

00:10:06.560 getting paid

00:10:07.660 to work out a bunch

00:10:09.260 and they feed you

00:10:10.180 a ton of food

00:10:10.840 and you get to

00:10:12.160 go to sleep sometimes

00:10:13.540 in a bed.

00:10:14.820 Yeah,

00:10:15.300 I loved it.

00:10:15.880 It was awesome.

00:10:17.300 Well,

00:10:17.760 I thought,

00:10:18.200 I mean,

00:10:18.320 like when I've heard

00:10:18.800 you talk about it before,

00:10:19.780 you just sound

00:10:20.220 so enthusiastic about it

00:10:21.620 and it made me think

00:10:23.940 of the John Kerry comment.

00:10:25.460 Remember when he once

00:10:26.420 told those college students,

00:10:27.980 if you make an effort

00:10:28.660 to be smart,

00:10:29.500 you can do well.

00:10:30.400 If you don't,

00:10:31.560 you get stuck in a rack.

00:10:33.520 And there was such shock

00:10:35.240 from the military community

00:10:36.400 when he said that

00:10:37.220 because when you're

00:10:38.220 in the military

00:10:38.840 or related to it

00:10:39.960 in any way,

00:10:40.860 you do see it.

00:10:41.760 You see it as an honor.

00:10:42.820 And a lot of guys

00:10:43.480 serving,

00:10:43.880 they see it as downright fun

00:10:45.300 and just a great way

00:10:46.700 to spend your life.

00:10:47.860 And I don't know,

00:10:49.160 do you remember that comment?

00:10:50.280 Do you remember

00:10:50.540 having a reaction to that?

00:10:51.420 Because that was right

00:10:51.860 around the time

00:10:52.280 you were serving.

00:10:53.660 Yeah.

00:10:54.180 I mean,

00:10:54.800 look,

00:10:56.020 I would love to have him

00:10:58.280 come and talk to

00:10:59.020 one of my SEAL platoons,

00:10:59.960 a bunch of the smartest guys.

00:11:01.660 Look,

00:11:01.840 do you got some knuckleheads

00:11:02.680 in there?

00:11:03.160 Absolutely.

00:11:04.060 You got some of the smartest guys

00:11:05.260 that you could imagine as well.

00:11:06.760 I mean,

00:11:07.140 one of the guys

00:11:07.940 that was in Iraq

00:11:08.920 with me on my last appointment

00:11:10.060 was Johnny Kim

00:11:11.680 who right now,

00:11:12.820 after he was a medic

00:11:14.100 for us

00:11:14.760 in my task unit,

00:11:16.260 he went on

00:11:16.920 to go to college,

00:11:18.100 become an officer,

00:11:18.880 go to medical school

00:11:20.040 at Harvard.

00:11:20.800 And then from Harvard

00:11:21.620 he got picked up

00:11:22.320 for the astronaut program

00:11:23.480 and he's an astronaut

00:11:25.020 right now.

00:11:25.580 So maybe he's not quite

00:11:27.700 what John Kerry

00:11:28.360 had in mind

00:11:28.960 when he was thinking

00:11:29.580 that the people

00:11:30.460 in the military

00:11:30.940 and in Iraq

00:11:31.480 were not very smart.

00:11:34.620 So you get to the Navy

00:11:35.920 and to the surprise

00:11:37.680 of your dad,

00:11:38.160 I guess,

00:11:38.600 you followed the rules

00:11:39.300 just fine.

00:11:40.300 Actually,

00:11:40.900 it appealed to you,

00:11:42.180 right?

00:11:42.440 I mean,

00:11:42.680 it seems like

00:11:43.420 in reading

00:11:44.320 like your book,

00:11:45.560 Leadership Strategies,

00:11:46.800 you loved that

00:11:48.420 it was very clear

00:11:49.400 what you needed to do

00:11:50.200 to get ahead.

00:11:51.220 And if you could

00:11:52.320 follow the rules,

00:11:53.200 do what you were told to do,

00:11:54.660 you could be a leader

00:11:55.560 in the Navy.

00:11:56.380 And for you,

00:11:58.080 I imagine that just,

00:11:59.200 you felt like

00:11:59.600 that was home.

00:12:00.900 Yeah,

00:12:01.300 it was awesome.

00:12:02.460 And,

00:12:02.840 you know,

00:12:03.040 I had a lot of,

00:12:04.000 let's say,

00:12:05.200 energy as a young,

00:12:06.880 as a young kid.

00:12:08.720 And all of a sudden,

00:12:09.920 you know,

00:12:10.120 when you're in high school

00:12:12.140 or grade school,

00:12:13.060 you have all this energy,

00:12:14.120 you don't know

00:12:14.440 what to do with it.

00:12:14.980 And usually,

00:12:15.740 it got me

00:12:16.740 into some kind of trouble,

00:12:18.040 whether it was,

00:12:18.840 you know,

00:12:19.020 causing problems

00:12:19.920 or fighting

00:12:20.580 or just doing things

00:12:22.120 that I shouldn't have been doing.

00:12:22.840 All of a sudden,

00:12:23.380 once I was in the Navy,

00:12:25.060 it's,

00:12:25.440 you could apply that energy

00:12:26.800 to a positive,

00:12:28.280 to,

00:12:28.540 in a positive direction.

00:12:29.840 And I just wanted to do that.

00:12:32.360 And then the other thing was,

00:12:34.020 I really,

00:12:35.560 what I wanted to do

00:12:36.860 is I wanted to be a good SEAL.

00:12:38.500 I wanted to be a good SEAL.

00:12:39.720 And so,

00:12:40.740 as I,

00:12:41.800 as I kind of

00:12:42.800 brought that

00:12:43.800 into my decision-making process

00:12:45.280 and I look,

00:12:46.320 would look at some decision

00:12:47.120 I had to make,

00:12:47.920 would that make me

00:12:48.720 a better SEAL or not?

00:12:49.940 And if it wasn't

00:12:50.740 going to make me

00:12:51.080 a better SEAL,

00:12:51.760 I wouldn't do it.

00:12:52.560 And if it was going

00:12:52.940 to make me a better SEAL,

00:12:53.980 then I would do it.

00:12:55.420 And it was,

00:12:56.200 you know,

00:12:56.340 it's not easy.

00:12:57.160 I'm not,

00:12:58.300 you're working

00:12:59.320 with some people

00:13:00.040 in the SEAL teams

00:13:00.740 that are incredibly

00:13:02.280 gifted

00:13:03.420 in all aspects.

00:13:05.620 Incredible athletes,

00:13:07.480 you know,

00:13:07.960 incredibly smart,

00:13:09.540 just,

00:13:09.920 just a bunch

00:13:10.620 of incredible people

00:13:11.500 at the top end

00:13:12.640 of the bell curve

00:13:13.180 in the SEAL team.

00:13:13.860 So,

00:13:14.220 for me,

00:13:15.000 I had to,

00:13:15.560 I had to go hard

00:13:16.620 and work hard

00:13:17.360 to sort of,

00:13:18.360 to sort of break out

00:13:19.580 and do a good job

00:13:20.360 and that's what I just,

00:13:21.500 that's what I focused on.

00:13:23.600 And you've said this

00:13:24.500 about yourself repeatedly.

00:13:25.460 I,

00:13:25.640 I've now come to conclude,

00:13:27.600 at first I thought

00:13:28.000 you were just being humble

00:13:28.800 because you are humble

00:13:29.900 and I know you prize humility,

00:13:31.120 but I believe you now

00:13:32.680 that you weren't the best

00:13:33.760 at all these things

00:13:34.560 because you've touted it

00:13:36.360 repeatedly as something

00:13:37.800 for people to consider.

00:13:38.980 Like,

00:13:39.460 life doesn't come easy,

00:13:40.600 success doesn't come easy,

00:13:41.780 and you may not start off

00:13:43.980 perfectly suited

00:13:44.820 for the thing

00:13:45.400 that you really want to do,

00:13:47.260 but it doesn't mean

00:13:48.160 you can't do it

00:13:49.160 and it doesn't mean

00:13:49.980 you can't be great at it,

00:13:51.880 but man,

00:13:52.600 it does mean

00:13:53.060 you're going to have to try hard.

00:13:54.240 You're going to have to put in

00:13:55.160 more than the 10,000 hours,

00:13:57.160 right?

00:13:57.720 I mean,

00:13:57.940 it's about hard work.

00:13:59.300 Yeah,

00:13:59.940 no doubt.

00:14:00.520 And I,

00:14:01.220 I can promise you

00:14:02.280 I was a average

00:14:04.120 at best

00:14:04.920 high school athlete

00:14:06.620 in soccer

00:14:07.840 and basketball.

00:14:08.940 I can promise you

00:14:10.200 that,

00:14:10.640 you know,

00:14:11.220 I,

00:14:11.440 I'm not extremely

00:14:12.820 strong

00:14:14.160 or fast

00:14:15.280 or anything like that

00:14:16.200 and I just

00:14:17.280 had to work hard.

00:14:18.640 So,

00:14:19.080 that's what I did.

00:14:20.460 Mm-hmm.

00:14:21.360 You said something

00:14:22.060 to the effect of

00:14:22.760 you loved your job

00:14:23.880 and if you,

00:14:24.900 if you're in the military,

00:14:25.780 your job is awesome.

00:14:26.640 This is quoting you.

00:14:27.320 You shoot machine guns,

00:14:28.220 you blow things up,

00:14:28.980 you jump out of airplanes.

00:14:30.280 You do have to kill people,

00:14:31.680 so you have to overcome

00:14:32.580 the sort of human ideal

00:14:33.900 of thou shalt not kill

00:14:35.080 and you also have to understand

00:14:36.520 that people are going

00:14:37.040 to try to kill you

00:14:37.820 and they may succeed.

00:14:39.660 So,

00:14:40.580 talk to me about fear

00:14:42.400 because I would think

00:14:43.880 that at the beginning

00:14:44.760 and I know it took you

00:14:45.580 13 years before you actually,

00:14:46.940 you know,

00:14:47.560 had to fire your gun

00:14:48.820 and you were deployed

00:14:50.360 over in Iraq

00:14:50.960 but it's hard to believe

00:14:52.980 that there isn't,

00:14:53.900 that that's all

00:14:54.640 an adrenaline rush

00:14:55.600 and there's no fear.

00:14:56.800 Um, well, I guess

00:15:01.720 if you, if that's

00:15:02.620 what you really like doing,

00:15:03.900 then it's not,

00:15:06.040 then there's not really

00:15:07.100 a lot of fear involved.

00:15:09.500 It's more, a lot of fun

00:15:11.460 and for me, you know,

00:15:13.120 going into combat,

00:15:13.960 the thing that I was afraid of

00:15:16.060 wasn't anything of me

00:15:17.680 being afraid of getting hurt myself.

00:15:19.340 It was always just being afraid

00:15:20.960 that one of my guys

00:15:22.200 was going to get wounded

00:15:22.840 or killed and that's the,

00:15:24.060 that's the feeling

00:15:25.120 that would put the knots

00:15:26.100 in my stomach

00:15:27.260 more than anything else.

00:15:28.880 But, you know,

00:15:30.300 when you're, when you're young,

00:15:32.080 when you're a young kid

00:15:33.440 and they give you the opportunity

00:15:35.560 to jump out of airplanes,

00:15:36.480 it's awesome.

00:15:38.040 I mean, it's fun.

00:15:39.360 That's what you want to do.

00:15:40.600 So, uh, yeah, I, I think,

00:15:43.060 I think fear and, and, you know,

00:15:44.800 any fear that I ever had of,

00:15:46.400 of getting killed

00:15:47.940 or something like that,

00:15:48.880 I, I just kind of accepted it

00:15:50.900 and moved on.

00:15:52.420 Didn't think too much about it.

00:15:53.440 Do you remember a time

00:15:55.300 where you felt fearful?

00:15:57.840 Like I said,

00:15:58.820 the times that I've been fearful

00:16:00.120 normally would be

00:16:02.180 going on an operation

00:16:03.900 and being afraid

00:16:05.020 that one of my guys

00:16:05.800 was going to get hurt or killed.

00:16:06.900 That, that to me is a fear that,

00:16:09.060 I mean, it's a, it's a,

00:16:10.860 it's a gut-wrenching feeling

00:16:12.920 thinking about that.

00:16:14.820 And it's, and it doesn't go away.

00:16:16.540 It's there all the time

00:16:17.780 when, when guys are in the field.

00:16:20.000 Um, as far as being afraid myself,

00:16:23.860 normally in situations where,

00:16:25.680 you know, oh, we're getting shot at

00:16:28.080 or, oh, we're getting mortared

00:16:29.820 or, oh, there's a,

00:16:32.000 we're in an ambush right now.

00:16:33.580 You're just kind of reacting

00:16:34.780 the way that you train to do.

00:16:36.520 And you're going to execute your,

00:16:38.180 you don't have time to think about,

00:16:39.380 I'm afraid right now

00:16:40.500 because you're just doing,

00:16:42.360 you're just doing the job.

00:16:44.080 And, and the other thing is,

00:16:45.520 and I've talked to on my podcast

00:16:46.700 with a, with some, some,

00:16:48.460 with a lot of veterans

00:16:49.460 and, and guys from World War II

00:16:51.900 that went into Iwo Jima

00:16:53.780 and went into Tarawa.

00:16:55.020 A lot of those guys

00:16:55.980 weren't afraid either

00:16:56.620 because you get this feeling

00:16:57.760 that it's just gonna,

00:16:58.780 it's nothing's going to happen to me.

00:16:59.660 It's going to happen to somebody else.

00:17:01.060 So you got that going for you as well.

00:17:02.960 And I, I always had a little bit

00:17:04.440 of that too of,

00:17:06.020 hey, I'm going to be okay.

00:17:07.380 And they can't, they can't get me.

00:17:09.700 So let's go.

00:17:11.280 That explains a lot.

00:17:12.480 I mean, you do,

00:17:13.200 you see these videos

00:17:13.940 of guys storming the beach

00:17:15.060 at Normandy and you think,

00:17:16.200 oh my God,

00:17:17.100 like they, they don't look terrified.

00:17:19.000 Yeah.

00:17:19.280 And it'd be perfectly fine

00:17:21.180 if you're sitting there

00:17:22.100 thinking to yourself,

00:17:23.300 well, Jocko is not very smart

00:17:25.260 if he thinks he could do

00:17:26.200 all this stuff and,

00:17:27.100 and get away with it.

00:17:28.600 And yes, I'll say,

00:17:30.480 I'll, I'll agree with you.

00:17:32.680 We, a lot of us in the military

00:17:34.960 think, you know,

00:17:36.160 I think, I think Megan,

00:17:37.820 that if I, if I'm on an aircraft,

00:17:39.740 like on a, on a passenger jet

00:17:41.640 flying over the ocean

00:17:42.660 and that thing blows up in the sky,

00:17:44.220 I think I'm going to live.

00:17:45.480 I'm going to figure it out.

00:17:46.560 So when you have that mentality,

00:17:48.600 well, it's,

00:17:49.580 you're not spending too much time

00:17:50.980 being afraid.

00:17:52.460 Right.

00:17:52.580 And who knows,

00:17:53.300 maybe you're manifesting

00:17:54.340 wellness and survival.

00:17:55.560 You know, who,

00:17:56.100 who knows how much

00:17:57.080 we're able to control

00:17:57.940 just with that kind of thinking

00:17:59.120 in terms of our instincts

00:18:00.420 and going left instead of right.

00:18:02.080 And, you know,

00:18:03.260 I'm sure there've been studies

00:18:04.480 on, on this,

00:18:05.300 but I believe in that power

00:18:06.320 to manifest

00:18:07.040 and whether it works

00:18:08.700 in the military or not,

00:18:09.620 you'd know better than I,

00:18:10.540 but why it's better

00:18:12.060 than the alternative of

00:18:13.080 I'm definitely the first victim.

00:18:15.260 Yeah.

00:18:15.640 You know,

00:18:16.040 I would say this,

00:18:17.000 it's interesting.

00:18:17.600 I don't really know,

00:18:18.840 you know,

00:18:19.580 it sounds a little bit,

00:18:20.600 oh, if I manifest

00:18:21.400 that I'm going to survive,

00:18:22.380 I'm going to survive.

00:18:23.020 But so I'm not sure

00:18:24.740 I would agree with that.

00:18:25.840 But what you said

00:18:27.680 that I would agree with

00:18:28.980 is if I'm going to,

00:18:30.760 I know,

00:18:31.240 I know that nine times

00:18:33.180 out of 10,

00:18:33.760 me taking action

00:18:34.860 is going to be better

00:18:36.180 than me not taking action.

00:18:38.160 So if I have that in my mind

00:18:40.500 and I think that way,

00:18:41.660 it's, I guess it does sort of

00:18:43.220 turn into a manifestation.

00:18:44.140 So I guess I do take it back

00:18:45.520 and, and I do agree with you.

00:18:46.900 If I know that taking action

00:18:48.400 is the right thing to do

00:18:49.280 and it's probably going to make me,

00:18:51.120 make my survivability higher,

00:18:53.300 then when I get confronted

00:18:54.760 with something,

00:18:55.240 I'm going to do something immediately.

00:18:56.560 I'm not going to freeze.

00:18:57.380 I'm not going to lock up.

00:18:58.180 I'm going to take action.

00:18:59.440 So maybe that does in a way

00:19:01.080 that mentality of I'm going to,

00:19:03.380 I'm going to go

00:19:04.120 as opposed to I'm going to sit back.

00:19:05.640 It seems like a better decision

00:19:07.600 as far as I'm concerned.

00:19:09.420 It seems like the military

00:19:10.700 helps you believe

00:19:11.900 not even if you're not a commander,

00:19:13.800 which I know you were,

00:19:14.780 but that you are in charge

00:19:17.400 of your destiny that,

00:19:18.820 you know,

00:19:19.640 no one actually is coming

00:19:21.000 to save you necessarily.

00:19:21.940 You have, you have teammates,

00:19:24.080 but you have to do something.

00:19:26.800 You have to act to help yourself.

00:19:29.120 It's, it's not up to somebody

00:19:30.960 else.

00:19:31.520 And that it's one of the things

00:19:32.720 I think is so good

00:19:33.680 about serving, right?

00:19:34.940 And that, which I didn't,

00:19:35.740 but I know enough guys

00:19:36.480 who did that.

00:19:37.240 I see it where our mentality

00:19:40.100 right now in this country

00:19:41.160 is, you know,

00:19:42.720 it's somebody else

00:19:43.620 has to fix it.

00:19:44.480 You know, I'm a victim.

00:19:45.740 Somebody else has to fix it.

00:19:46.940 And I've just been crippled

00:19:47.940 by society's unfairness to me.

00:19:51.240 Well, I mean,

00:19:51.960 I guess we could look around

00:19:53.040 and say that.

00:19:53.720 And I always feel like

00:19:55.320 if I'm sitting around

00:19:56.040 saying that society's all weak,

00:19:57.800 well, what am I going to do

00:19:58.500 about it?

00:19:58.980 Like that's almost a complaint.

00:20:01.160 It's complaining about complainers.

00:20:02.540 I don't even waste my time

00:20:03.820 complaining about complainers

00:20:05.020 because as you said,

00:20:06.640 that's the,

00:20:07.160 that's the way you have

00:20:08.240 to operate in the military

00:20:09.160 is if I don't make

00:20:11.620 something happen right now,

00:20:12.540 it's not going to happen.

00:20:13.580 And if I sit back

00:20:15.380 and allow the world

00:20:16.540 to happen to me,

00:20:17.620 it's going to happen to me

00:20:18.900 and the world is a lot bigger

00:20:19.840 and stronger than I am.

00:20:20.840 So I need to go on the offense

00:20:22.260 and make things happen,

00:20:23.620 like you said.

00:20:24.180 And I would say

00:20:25.960 that definitely gets instilled

00:20:27.140 in you inside the military

00:20:29.420 or at least it should.

00:20:30.740 And the other,

00:20:31.400 the other misconception

00:20:32.040 about the military

00:20:32.820 is that someone's going to tell you

00:20:35.000 exactly what to do.

00:20:36.020 And the American military

00:20:37.360 doesn't work like that.

00:20:38.260 It's,

00:20:38.560 it's decentralized command

00:20:39.920 where you know

00:20:40.980 what the objective is

00:20:41.800 and you,

00:20:42.360 you do whatever it takes

00:20:43.420 and maneuver however

00:20:44.480 you need to maneuver

00:20:45.160 to get to that objective.

00:20:46.600 That's the way

00:20:47.420 good military units operate.

00:20:49.420 There's not someone at the top

00:20:50.460 with a,

00:20:51.480 with a big plan

00:20:53.020 that they're going to dictate to you.

00:20:54.380 That doesn't happen

00:20:55.360 and it shouldn't happen

00:20:56.060 because that's centralized command

00:20:57.800 and centralized command

00:20:58.960 doesn't,

00:20:59.360 doesn't,

00:21:00.520 doesn't react quickly enough

00:21:01.860 to,

00:21:02.620 to outdo a military

00:21:04.600 that's based on decentralized command.

00:21:06.140 So you're right.

00:21:07.880 It's,

00:21:08.420 it's the mentality of,

00:21:10.740 I know what it is

00:21:11.880 that we're trying to achieve

00:21:12.900 and I need to go make this happen.

00:21:16.020 Not someone else.

00:21:17.380 Me.

00:21:18.200 I have to do it.

00:21:19.460 I,

00:21:19.820 I just wonder,

00:21:20.980 so if you're,

00:21:21.740 if you're not going to waste time

00:21:22.780 complaining about the complainers,

00:21:24.160 I get that.

00:21:25.020 But what do you,

00:21:26.640 how do we get people

00:21:28.720 in our society

00:21:29.700 who have become

00:21:30.800 lovers of victimhood,

00:21:33.220 right?

00:21:33.560 Lovers of things like

00:21:34.720 silence is violence

00:21:35.820 and words are violence

00:21:36.860 from somebody

00:21:37.400 who's seen real violence

00:21:38.380 and lost a bunch of friends

00:21:39.780 to actual violence

00:21:41.160 and war?

00:21:41.780 How do we get people

00:21:42.940 out of that mentality

00:21:44.220 and back to mental toughness?

00:21:46.300 I think you set a good example.

00:21:47.900 You build things,

00:21:48.700 you create things,

00:21:49.520 you put the word out.

00:21:50.620 You,

00:21:51.020 you know,

00:21:51.440 I,

00:21:51.660 I,

00:21:52.240 on my podcast,

00:21:53.860 I have people

00:21:54.500 that can talk about

00:21:55.400 what it really means

00:21:56.500 to be a victim.

00:21:57.120 You know,

00:21:57.520 I,

00:21:57.820 I,

00:21:58.160 I had a woman on there

00:21:59.960 named Rose Schindler

00:22:00.800 who was in,

00:22:01.640 who was in Auschwitz

00:22:02.620 and you listen to her story

00:22:04.420 and what she did to survive

00:22:05.680 and how,

00:22:06.700 how she had to go through that

00:22:09.080 and then move through

00:22:10.620 the rest of her life

00:22:11.500 and work for everything she had.

00:22:13.540 You,

00:22:14.000 you can't with a,

00:22:15.420 you can't with a good conscience

00:22:16.840 look at her

00:22:17.900 and say that you're a victim.

00:22:20.720 I mean,

00:22:21.460 I mean,

00:22:22.020 it's almost impossible.

00:22:23.020 There's people that are out there,

00:22:24.240 but there's,

00:22:26.180 there's people that go through

00:22:27.140 such horrible things in life

00:22:28.960 that,

00:22:30.220 you know,

00:22:30.840 and they still come out the other side.

00:22:32.680 They take ownership of what's going on

00:22:33.800 in their world

00:22:34.260 and they move forward.

00:22:35.640 So I think the best thing,

00:22:37.100 well,

00:22:37.280 what I try and do

00:22:37.980 is just,

00:22:38.520 just share stories of people

00:22:39.740 that really have been

00:22:41.680 in horrible situations

00:22:42.880 and the,

00:22:44.000 and the indomitable human spirit

00:22:46.020 can still step up,

00:22:47.560 drive forward,

00:22:48.800 move on

00:22:49.440 and make things happen.

00:22:50.620 And I think that,

00:22:51.860 that's what I try and do is,

00:22:53.460 is not just set the example myself,

00:22:55.520 but more importantly

00:22:56.860 is to share examples of other people

00:22:59.740 that have been in,

00:23:02.120 you know,

00:23:02.340 had a guy,

00:23:02.820 I had a guy on,

00:23:04.200 named Captain Charlie Plum

00:23:05.580 who was in the Hanoi Hilton

00:23:06.740 for,

00:23:07.560 for six years,

00:23:08.840 for six years

00:23:09.760 in the Hanoi Hilton,

00:23:11.000 you know,

00:23:11.480 eating next to nothing,

00:23:12.700 being tortured,

00:23:13.500 being abused.

00:23:14.960 I have,

00:23:15.720 I've had those types of people on

00:23:17.800 that

00:23:18.280 it's really hard

00:23:20.600 to hear their stories

00:23:22.100 and consider yourself a victim.

00:23:24.520 And if you do,

00:23:26.140 if you do at the end of their stories,

00:23:27.340 you realize that you're still a victim

00:23:28.620 or you,

00:23:29.260 you have been a victim,

00:23:30.040 then you look at what they did

00:23:32.060 and how they handled being a victim.

00:23:34.220 What they did was

00:23:34.860 they took ownership

00:23:35.560 of whatever they could

00:23:36.700 in their world

00:23:37.240 and move forward.

00:23:39.360 Well,

00:23:39.420 that's something that you say often

00:23:41.420 that I completely agree with,

00:23:43.100 which is

00:23:43.600 you,

00:23:45.300 when,

00:23:45.820 when life throws challenges at you

00:23:47.740 and,

00:23:47.940 and it's,

00:23:48.640 sometimes one is victimized.

00:23:50.480 Someone,

00:23:50.900 you know,

00:23:51.080 I think of,

00:23:51.560 think of somebody who gets raped.

00:23:53.240 Sometimes one is victimized,

00:23:55.280 but a large part of the battle

00:23:58.160 of handling trauma

00:24:00.380 or hurt

00:24:01.960 or massive pain

00:24:02.940 or setbacks

00:24:03.720 is attitude.

00:24:05.260 I'm not saying the attitude

00:24:06.280 can solve it all,

00:24:07.160 but it can solve a lot.

00:24:08.900 And you,

00:24:09.840 I always say

00:24:10.660 that when life throws

00:24:12.300 a massive opportunity

00:24:13.420 my way,

00:24:14.080 right,

00:24:14.260 some massive crisis

00:24:15.340 or attack

00:24:16.200 or something awful,

00:24:17.260 my first reaction

00:24:18.260 is to say thank you

00:24:19.320 because that's the only way

00:24:20.980 you build your superhero muscles.

00:24:22.860 You don't get stronger

00:24:24.600 by sitting at home

00:24:26.040 having nothing happen to you

00:24:27.200 or only great things happen to you.

00:24:28.900 You need tumult.

00:24:30.060 You need challenge

00:24:30.840 to get stronger,

00:24:32.360 bigger,

00:24:32.760 better,

00:24:33.120 the best version of yourself.

00:24:34.340 And when I read that

00:24:35.400 in your books,

00:24:36.000 I was like,

00:24:36.500 yes,

00:24:36.800 this is my brother

00:24:37.480 from another mother

00:24:38.320 because you say that exact thing

00:24:40.340 that when something bad happens,

00:24:42.540 you say,

00:24:43.640 good,

00:24:44.440 when you do it,

00:24:45.000 your low voice,

00:24:45.900 good,

00:24:46.840 right?

00:24:47.120 I mean,

00:24:47.620 talk about how important that is.

00:24:49.680 Well,

00:24:49.840 I can talk about,

00:24:50.520 you just talked about it,

00:24:51.280 which is you nailed it.

00:24:53.120 You know,

00:24:53.600 you use the word thank you

00:24:54.920 when you've got some,

00:24:55.900 some thing unfolding in your life

00:24:59.340 that you can't control

00:25:00.580 that's miserable

00:25:01.940 and you look at it and say,

00:25:03.520 okay,

00:25:03.700 well,

00:25:03.920 thank you.

00:25:04.420 This is going to make me stronger.

00:25:05.460 It's going to let me see

00:25:06.040 another perspective.

00:25:06.720 It's going to allow me,

00:25:07.620 it's going to force me

00:25:08.300 to learn more about myself

00:25:09.500 or more about the world

00:25:10.960 and I'm going to take those lessons

00:25:12.680 and I'm going to become

00:25:13.320 a better person.

00:25:14.300 So it's the exact same attitude

00:25:16.620 whether you're saying thank you

00:25:17.780 or whether you're saying good.

00:25:18.900 What you don't want to do

00:25:20.640 is something bad happens,

00:25:22.580 say,

00:25:23.340 oh no,

00:25:24.100 this is horrible.

00:25:25.440 Woe is me.

00:25:26.460 I can't do anything.

00:25:27.420 It's totally out of my control.

00:25:29.040 Well,

00:25:29.360 what,

00:25:29.560 what can you control?

00:25:30.760 What,

00:25:31.060 what can you control?

00:25:31.960 Where can you,

00:25:32.880 where can you go on offense?

00:25:34.740 Where can you maneuver

00:25:36.040 so you're in a better position

00:25:37.220 in the future?

00:25:38.020 And I mean,

00:25:40.020 the choices are that,

00:25:41.820 that stark.

00:25:42.540 Am I going to sit back

00:25:43.580 and allow this to happen

00:25:44.560 and,

00:25:45.240 and be a victim

00:25:46.160 in this situation

00:25:46.840 or am I going to go on offense?

00:25:48.580 Am I going to take the fight

00:25:49.480 to the enemy?

00:25:50.320 And am I,

00:25:50.640 am I going to move forward?

00:25:52.020 So if people can hear

00:25:53.960 that message from me,

00:25:55.000 great.

00:25:55.800 But it's one of those messages

00:25:57.420 that's been around

00:25:58.120 for a long time.

00:25:58.760 I certainly didn't invent it.

00:25:59.920 You and I come from

00:26:00.600 totally different backgrounds

00:26:01.480 and you figured out

00:26:02.860 the best thing to do

00:26:03.700 when something goes wrong

00:26:04.520 is say thank you

00:26:05.560 and,

00:26:06.280 and,

00:26:06.620 and move into it.

00:26:07.680 So universal lessons,

00:26:09.260 I,

00:26:09.580 I certainly try and spread

00:26:11.940 and try and hope

00:26:13.140 that people learn.

00:26:16.160 In a minute,

00:26:16.740 we'll have more

00:26:17.180 with Jocko Willink.

00:26:18.580 But first,

00:26:19.800 listen to this.

00:26:25.780 You've had your best friends

00:26:27.080 killed in front of your very eyes.

00:26:28.580 I mean,

00:26:28.820 I've had terrible things

00:26:29.680 happen to me.

00:26:30.140 I just had Eric Bolling

00:26:31.080 on the show the other day

00:26:32.040 whose 19 year old son

00:26:33.380 died from an accidental

00:26:34.820 drug overdose

00:26:35.460 after taking one,

00:26:36.940 what he thought was a Xanax,

00:26:38.080 but really it was laced

00:26:38.900 with fentanyl.

00:26:39.760 It's not,

00:26:40.340 it's not that you

00:26:41.420 in any way

00:26:42.080 celebrate the awfulness.

00:26:43.620 It's that

00:26:44.060 after the awfulness happens,

00:26:45.940 there's a way

00:26:46.620 of handling

00:26:47.280 the recovery process

00:26:48.700 that can speed it along

00:26:50.400 and make it,

00:26:51.860 make yourself better,

00:26:53.460 make you more okay.

00:26:54.820 And like Eric was saying,

00:26:55.960 he organized 15 town halls

00:26:57.740 and he put them on TV

00:26:58.640 talking with other parents

00:26:59.740 about the opioid crisis

00:27:01.120 and what's happening

00:27:01.800 right now in our country.

00:27:02.600 And he's reminding kids

00:27:03.600 in high schools

00:27:04.460 and middle schools

00:27:05.240 and colleges

00:27:05.740 all over the country

00:27:06.360 that one pill can kill.

00:27:07.960 That to me

00:27:08.700 is what we're talking about.

00:27:09.740 Like,

00:27:10.300 you can find an opportunity

00:27:11.560 to make something good

00:27:13.340 from,

00:27:13.820 from tragedy,

00:27:14.940 from horror,

00:27:15.900 from horror.

00:27:16.880 And even in your own mind,

00:27:18.520 if you can find a way

00:27:19.400 to make yourself stronger,

00:27:22.000 more enlightened,

00:27:23.360 it's better for you.

00:27:25.840 You know,

00:27:26.440 I think some people

00:27:27.800 might look at us

00:27:28.460 and say,

00:27:29.020 it's not that easy.

00:27:31.120 Right?

00:27:31.460 It's not that easy.

00:27:32.520 I remember this woman

00:27:33.600 I met at NBC

00:27:34.580 telling me about this.

00:27:35.720 What she said was,

00:27:36.620 not everyone

00:27:37.200 is as strong as you are.

00:27:39.040 I don't know.

00:27:39.880 I understood

00:27:40.780 what she's trying to say,

00:27:41.760 but I just,

00:27:42.160 my feeling is

00:27:42.720 anyone can do it.

00:27:43.860 you said

00:27:44.980 that people

00:27:45.460 might look at you

00:27:46.780 and say,

00:27:47.660 it's not that easy.

00:27:48.820 And my answer would be,

00:27:50.120 you're right.

00:27:51.720 It's not that easy.

00:27:53.060 No one's saying

00:27:53.720 it's going to be easy.

00:27:54.700 But I just think

00:27:56.000 that the choice

00:27:57.900 between going on offense

00:28:00.000 or sitting back

00:28:00.600 on defense,

00:28:01.440 I'm going to tell you,

00:28:03.720 I'm going to tell you

00:28:05.840 from my experience,

00:28:07.480 being on offense

00:28:08.320 is better.

00:28:09.100 Trying to move forward

00:28:10.100 is better.

00:28:10.480 Trying to go

00:28:11.440 on the attack

00:28:11.980 is better

00:28:12.440 than sitting back

00:28:14.020 and staying put

00:28:16.840 and allowing

00:28:17.740 these horrible things

00:28:19.520 to continue

00:28:20.000 to attack you.

00:28:21.140 Attack them.

00:28:22.620 Attack them.

00:28:23.940 Mm-hmm.

00:28:24.700 I was talking

00:28:25.140 to the audience

00:28:25.620 not long ago

00:28:26.280 about,

00:28:27.060 I had two years off

00:28:28.420 basically,

00:28:29.200 after I left NBC

00:28:30.360 and started this job.

00:28:31.940 And for a lot

00:28:32.380 of that time,

00:28:32.940 I refer to myself

00:28:33.760 as like on the couch.

00:28:35.500 You know,

00:28:35.800 I was upset

00:28:36.440 for a while there.

00:28:37.280 I was kind of depressed.

00:28:38.140 I didn't know

00:28:39.080 what the hell

00:28:39.400 had just happened

00:28:39.900 in my life.

00:28:41.320 And my therapist

00:28:42.740 who I love

00:28:43.320 just sort of

00:28:44.180 kind of was saying,

00:28:45.600 get off the couch.

00:28:46.600 Just get off the couch,

00:28:47.600 right?

00:28:47.920 And ultimately,

00:28:49.080 I found the motivation

00:28:49.740 to do it.

00:28:50.380 But just getting

00:28:51.960 off the couch

00:28:52.620 is big.

00:28:53.300 Just standing up

00:28:54.480 and get off the couch.

00:28:56.240 Go into forward movement.

00:28:58.420 Change the routine.

00:29:00.520 Wallowing

00:29:00.920 is the wrong choice

00:29:03.660 to wellness.

00:29:05.260 Yep.

00:29:05.940 Absolutely.

00:29:06.380 And there's,

00:29:08.320 you know,

00:29:08.480 I've written about this

00:29:09.720 and I've talked about this

00:29:10.720 when you go through,

00:29:13.060 like I've gone through

00:29:14.360 losing very close friends

00:29:15.720 of mine.

00:29:16.720 And when you go through that,

00:29:19.260 it's very scary

00:29:20.940 because the initial thing

00:29:24.100 that I realized

00:29:25.040 is you're,

00:29:27.020 it's like being in a storm.

00:29:28.720 It's like getting hit

00:29:29.760 with these waves

00:29:30.360 of emotions.

00:29:31.760 And for me anyways,

00:29:34.560 I pretty good control

00:29:35.760 over my emotions

00:29:36.640 and all of a sudden

00:29:37.800 I'm in this storm

00:29:38.760 where I can't control

00:29:39.660 these waves of emotion.

00:29:40.480 They're,

00:29:40.840 they're bigger,

00:29:41.640 they're stronger than me

00:29:42.640 and they're hitting me

00:29:43.840 and I can't stop them.

00:29:46.040 And what I explain to people

00:29:47.720 is those,

00:29:48.480 that storm is going to settle.

00:29:49.920 And so,

00:29:50.880 when you initially get hit

00:29:52.100 with these waves of emotion,

00:29:53.040 it's going to be horrible.

00:29:54.040 You're going to feel like

00:29:54.700 there's no control.

00:29:55.440 You're going to feel like

00:29:55.900 you don't have control

00:29:56.560 and you don't,

00:29:57.580 by the way.

00:29:58.020 But over time,

00:30:00.340 the storm,

00:30:01.600 the waves,

00:30:02.100 they start to subside

00:30:02.880 a little bit.

00:30:03.980 And now you can,

00:30:04.920 now they're not quite as strong

00:30:05.900 when they hit you.

00:30:06.900 They're,

00:30:07.260 they're a little bit

00:30:08.100 further apart.

00:30:09.060 And eventually,

00:30:10.440 you,

00:30:10.800 you get through these waves

00:30:12.500 of emotion

00:30:13.080 and you can start to control them.

00:30:14.180 And then people start to think,

00:30:15.280 am I a bad person

00:30:16.560 because I'm no longer emotional

00:30:17.860 about this loss?

00:30:19.100 And the answer is no.

00:30:20.420 It's just that your,

00:30:21.400 your mind is processing

00:30:22.740 what you've gone through

00:30:23.660 and now you can start to,

00:30:25.480 you can start to have control over it

00:30:26.860 and you can start to actually look back

00:30:28.140 and,

00:30:29.020 and take the good things away

00:30:31.160 from,

00:30:32.480 from the loss that you've had.

00:30:33.760 And,

00:30:33.940 and I know that's,

00:30:34.820 again,

00:30:35.300 back to what you said

00:30:36.560 about how do you look

00:30:38.320 at something so horrible

00:30:39.180 and how can you say

00:30:39.880 that it's good?

00:30:40.680 Well,

00:30:41.360 if I lose one of my friends

00:30:42.540 or when I've lost my friends,

00:30:44.060 once I get through

00:30:45.360 those initial waves of emotions,

00:30:46.980 I get to look back and say,

00:30:49.220 hey,

00:30:49.520 this is an individual

00:30:50.380 that I got to know.

00:30:51.260 This is an individual

00:30:52.000 that I got to share

00:30:52.580 all this time with.

00:30:53.160 And,

00:30:53.600 and laugh with

00:30:54.380 and have good times with

00:30:55.760 and go through trials

00:30:56.620 and tribulations with them.

00:30:57.640 And I have those forever.

00:30:59.320 And,

00:30:59.880 and those are,

00:31:00.860 those were a gift to me.

00:31:01.680 And even in their loss,

00:31:03.880 even in them dying,

00:31:04.900 I get to take away from that.

00:31:07.580 I get to learn more lessons.

00:31:09.000 I get to,

00:31:10.300 I get to experience pain and sorrow

00:31:12.200 so that I can remember

00:31:13.020 how good the rest of the things

00:31:15.040 in life can be.

00:31:16.460 So I think that attitude

00:31:18.400 of,

00:31:19.740 of taking a step back,

00:31:21.540 but when you go through

00:31:23.000 these horrible situations,

00:31:24.240 you're going to,

00:31:24.820 you're going to,

00:31:24.960 there's going to be emotions.

00:31:26.000 You're going to feel like

00:31:26.720 it's out of control.

00:31:27.480 And when you feel like

00:31:28.240 it's out of control,

00:31:29.020 it's okay.

00:31:30.380 The storm will subside.

00:31:32.140 And when the storm starts to subside,

00:31:34.360 that's okay too.

00:31:35.600 And that's when I think

00:31:36.820 you have that opportunity

00:31:37.640 to look around and say,

00:31:38.500 okay,

00:31:38.840 what good can I take away from this?

00:31:40.940 And,

00:31:41.320 and you can find it

00:31:42.100 and you,

00:31:42.700 you don't have to make it up.

00:31:43.860 You don't have to lie to yourself.

00:31:44.980 You can find it.

00:31:45.840 You can find it there.

00:31:47.760 So I've,

00:31:48.420 I've heard you talk about this

00:31:49.520 in the context of breakups

00:31:50.920 and also to some extent

00:31:52.280 dealing with death

00:31:53.440 and the message.

00:31:55.000 It's not your only message,

00:31:55.940 but it's one of the messages

00:31:56.960 that stuck out in me,

00:31:57.880 which is basically

00:31:58.980 when it comes to a breakup,

00:32:00.360 one must detach.

00:32:02.060 One must move on.

00:32:03.520 One,

00:32:03.780 one mustn't spend hours

00:32:05.540 and hours and hours

00:32:06.140 just thinking about it.

00:32:07.680 You have to find a way

00:32:08.700 to emotionally detach.

00:32:10.320 And ultimately,

00:32:10.740 when you're dealing

00:32:11.580 with the loss of somebody,

00:32:14.160 a death,

00:32:15.280 it is the same,

00:32:17.160 you know,

00:32:17.480 one must move forward.

00:32:18.900 And as they say,

00:32:19.960 perhaps more tritely,

00:32:21.600 life is for the living.

00:32:22.700 And you've got to find a way

00:32:24.480 to keep moving forward.

00:32:26.100 Forward motion is the key.

00:32:28.360 But you know,

00:32:29.120 there'll be a lot of people

00:32:29.760 listening to this saying,

00:32:31.560 how,

00:32:33.060 how,

00:32:34.040 how do I emotionally detach

00:32:36.600 from someone who I loved

00:32:37.920 who left me,

00:32:39.120 you know,

00:32:39.380 or,

00:32:39.840 or,

00:32:40.440 or who died,

00:32:41.420 like how on earth

00:32:42.340 can I stop my brain

00:32:43.520 from,

00:32:44.560 from obsessing over this 24 seven?

00:32:47.120 So I think what you have to do

00:32:48.440 is you have to accept

00:32:49.140 what's happening.

00:32:50.600 And you know,

00:32:51.500 this is something I,

00:32:52.500 you,

00:32:52.600 you taught,

00:32:53.040 you asked me about fear earlier.

00:32:54.660 And one of the things

00:32:55.720 I would talk to guys about

00:32:56.800 is when you get that,

00:32:59.100 that,

00:32:59.720 that twisting gut,

00:33:01.980 you starting to feel afraid

00:33:03.140 about something

00:33:03.900 is to think to yourself,

00:33:05.420 oh,

00:33:05.780 I know what that is.

00:33:07.380 What that is,

00:33:08.160 is fear.

00:33:08.700 That's my body

00:33:09.740 going,

00:33:10.620 getting ready

00:33:11.320 for a combat situation.

00:33:12.660 That's my body

00:33:13.500 getting tuned,

00:33:14.640 getting the adrenaline flowing.

00:33:16.280 It's,

00:33:16.780 it's all those things.

00:33:17.660 And it's actually,

00:33:18.320 if you know what it is,

00:33:19.620 if someone says,

00:33:20.580 if you tell a new guy

00:33:21.820 that's never been in combat before,

00:33:23.180 Hey,

00:33:23.500 listen,

00:33:24.020 before you go out,

00:33:24.780 your,

00:33:24.980 your,

00:33:25.240 your stomach's going to be a knots.

00:33:26.440 You're going to be,

00:33:27.200 you're going to be,

00:33:27.680 you might be actually shivering

00:33:29.020 because you're scared

00:33:30.360 of what's about to happen.

00:33:31.800 That's normal.

00:33:32.560 It's okay.

00:33:33.080 It's your body preparing you

00:33:34.520 to go into combat.

00:33:35.660 So,

00:33:36.140 so it's okay.

00:33:37.860 And once people realize that,

00:33:39.420 you say,

00:33:39.740 oh,

00:33:39.940 okay,

00:33:40.340 what I'm feeling is normal.

00:33:41.840 What I'm feeling is normal.

00:33:43.700 So when you go through a breakup

00:33:45.760 where you go through

00:33:46.660 the loss of someone,

00:33:47.740 that's what I,

00:33:48.860 what I'm trying to say

00:33:49.660 is those emotions that you have,

00:33:50.900 they're normal.

00:33:51.660 It's going to happen.

00:33:52.920 But once they start

00:33:54.640 to subside a little bit,

00:33:55.560 you say,

00:33:55.960 okay,

00:33:56.280 now I've got to get control

00:33:57.380 of these emotions

00:33:57.960 because I've got to move forward

00:33:59.080 because to get,

00:34:00.440 you know,

00:34:00.700 I say this about death as well.

00:34:02.860 Remember,

00:34:03.460 but don't dwell.

00:34:04.560 So,

00:34:05.060 so you remember,

00:34:06.100 you got to remember

00:34:06.980 this person that you lost.

00:34:08.900 You got to remember them always,

00:34:10.300 but you don't want to dwell

00:34:11.680 in the past

00:34:12.580 because that's not healthy.

00:34:14.560 And yeah,

00:34:15.520 I mean,

00:34:15.760 I've,

00:34:16.080 I've got some things

00:34:17.440 about breaking up

00:34:18.400 and look,

00:34:19.060 I've been married for,

00:34:20.140 I've been married

00:34:20.820 for a really long time.

00:34:21.720 I guess coming up on,

00:34:23.780 I don't know,

00:34:24.240 but a really long time,

00:34:25.260 you know,

00:34:25.860 since I was 25,

00:34:26.980 I'm 49.

00:34:27.680 So what's that?

00:34:28.360 24 years,

00:34:29.140 24 years I've been married.

00:34:30.760 And,

00:34:31.240 and,

00:34:31.360 and a lot of the,

00:34:32.260 a lot of the,

00:34:33.520 the information that I put out

00:34:35.580 about relationships

00:34:36.620 and when relations goes wrong

00:34:38.120 and things like that

00:34:38.840 is what I learned.

00:34:40.140 Well,

00:34:40.480 obviously from when I was

00:34:41.400 a young single guy,

00:34:42.220 but then also

00:34:43.140 when I was a leader

00:34:44.320 in the SEAL teams

00:34:44.980 and I'd have these guys

00:34:46.260 between the ages of 18 and 40

00:34:48.820 going through whatever

00:34:50.400 trials and tribulations

00:34:51.620 they're going through

00:34:52.280 in their relationships

00:34:52.980 and saying,

00:34:54.060 Hey,

00:34:54.160 here's what you need to do.

00:34:55.000 Here's the best way

00:34:55.640 to move forward.

00:34:56.420 Because when you're

00:34:57.160 in a leadership position,

00:34:58.100 you're responsible

00:34:59.040 for all aspects

00:34:59.980 or you're responsible

00:35:01.160 for trying to take care

00:35:02.040 of your troops

00:35:02.620 in all aspects

00:35:03.480 of your lives

00:35:04.020 and they're going to come

00:35:04.660 to you with these problems.

00:35:05.360 So a lot of the experience

00:35:06.700 that I have

00:35:07.320 about challenging,

00:35:09.800 let's call them

00:35:10.300 challenging relationships

00:35:11.280 comes from,

00:35:12.420 you know,

00:35:12.820 just talking to

00:35:13.720 a 23 year old SEAL

00:35:15.780 who's broken up

00:35:16.980 with his girlfriend

00:35:17.540 and he's in,

00:35:18.300 she left

00:35:18.940 and whatever happened

00:35:19.880 and he's in the dumps

00:35:21.060 because of it.

00:35:21.980 How do we move

00:35:22.520 that guy forward?

00:35:23.100 And so that's where

00:35:24.480 a lot of the kind of,

00:35:26.540 I guess,

00:35:27.080 relationship counselor

00:35:28.260 information comes

00:35:30.280 from real world experience

00:35:31.760 dealing with guys

00:35:32.720 that are going

00:35:33.660 through these breakups.

00:35:35.580 This is why they call you

00:35:36.240 the wise warrior.

00:35:37.860 Now,

00:35:38.560 how does one do it though?

00:35:40.400 Because I'm a big believer

00:35:41.960 in cognitive behavioral therapy

00:35:43.920 where it's like,

00:35:44.960 okay,

00:35:45.140 my mind keeps obsessing

00:35:46.200 over this thing

00:35:46.840 and the answer is

00:35:48.580 to focus on this other thing.

00:35:50.420 And I know this is bizarre,

00:35:51.460 but it's always worked for me.

00:35:52.860 I had a dog for 14 years,

00:35:54.800 little cute dog.

00:35:56.060 Her name was Basha

00:35:56.900 and she had the sweetest

00:35:58.320 little face

00:35:58.880 and I used to

00:36:00.920 and now continue

00:36:01.980 to think of Basha's face.

00:36:04.220 And it's basically

00:36:05.140 just like,

00:36:05.680 it's a click,

00:36:06.440 you know,

00:36:06.660 it's like a reset.

00:36:07.760 It's just something to go to

00:36:09.300 when I'm like,

00:36:10.240 oh my God,

00:36:10.700 my mind's starting

00:36:11.500 to obsess over the thing.

00:36:12.640 Here's the thing

00:36:13.260 over and over and over

00:36:14.180 in my head.

00:36:14.600 Basha's face,

00:36:15.220 Basha's face.

00:36:15.840 It's just like a break

00:36:17.060 to get you away

00:36:17.860 from the obsession.

00:36:18.960 And before you know it,

00:36:19.840 you're like,

00:36:20.080 what am I going to have

00:36:20.460 for lunch today?

00:36:21.000 What am I going to cook

00:36:21.540 for dinner?

00:36:21.960 Oh, wait a minute.

00:36:22.460 I'm going to go for a walk.

00:36:23.600 Oh, I've got to pick up

00:36:24.220 that prescription.

00:36:25.120 Oh, I'm not thinking

00:36:25.960 about the thing.

00:36:26.920 So I like that

00:36:27.780 as a way of breaking

00:36:30.340 cycles of negative thinking

00:36:32.720 or obsessive thinking,

00:36:33.940 whether it's about a breakup

00:36:34.880 or a death

00:36:35.440 or something awful.

00:36:36.660 What do you recommend?

00:36:39.000 It's an interesting thing

00:36:40.140 that you say that

00:36:40.840 because when I lost

00:36:43.560 my first guy in combat,

00:36:45.280 Mark Lee,

00:36:45.820 who was the first SEAL

00:36:46.560 killed in Iraq

00:36:47.200 and he was just

00:36:47.820 just the most epic human

00:36:52.920 and seemed to be

00:36:55.380 totally indestructible

00:36:57.740 in the way he behaved,

00:36:59.020 in the way he acted,

00:36:59.740 just an incredible guy.

00:37:01.780 And when he died,

00:37:03.180 obviously,

00:37:03.840 it crushed me

00:37:06.520 and it crushed

00:37:07.580 his platoon mates

00:37:09.160 and the rest of the guys

00:37:10.220 in the task unit.

00:37:10.860 And I was in

00:37:13.880 the leadership position.

00:37:15.060 I had never been trained

00:37:16.200 on what to do

00:37:17.340 when you lose someone

00:37:17.960 in combat.

00:37:18.460 There was no one

00:37:18.900 in my chain of command

00:37:19.700 that had ever lost

00:37:21.260 anyone in combat

00:37:21.880 because we had grown up,

00:37:23.840 the guys in the chain of command

00:37:24.820 like me had grown up

00:37:25.680 in the 90s.

00:37:27.600 And so there was no wars

00:37:28.560 going on in the 90s

00:37:29.620 and very little combat

00:37:31.300 going on in the 90s.

00:37:32.760 So there was no instructions

00:37:34.820 that I got about

00:37:35.980 what to do,

00:37:36.720 how to handle it,

00:37:37.320 what's the emotional,

00:37:38.080 what's the emotional toll

00:37:39.240 going to be on the troops.

00:37:40.060 And what I actually told

00:37:41.860 the guys was,

00:37:43.020 look, we're going to take

00:37:44.300 a couple of days off.

00:37:45.280 We're going to mourn

00:37:46.460 Mark's loss.

00:37:47.920 We're going to celebrate

00:37:48.560 his life.

00:37:50.240 And then we're going

00:37:50.960 to go back to work.

00:37:51.840 We're going to lock

00:37:52.440 and load our weapons.

00:37:53.200 We're going to put our gear on

00:37:54.100 and we're going to go out

00:37:54.600 and do our job.

00:37:56.620 And much to what

00:37:58.400 you're talking about,

00:37:59.500 I thought to myself,

00:38:00.940 this is what we need to do

00:38:02.720 to get our minds

00:38:03.320 off of thinking about Mark

00:38:06.360 and dwelling about Mark's loss,

00:38:07.900 which is a hard thing to do

00:38:09.780 in combat.

00:38:10.480 And certainly,

00:38:11.340 I think it's the right thing

00:38:12.220 to do.

00:38:13.180 And then it's probably

00:38:14.140 going to come back at you

00:38:15.140 when you get home

00:38:15.980 three months or six months

00:38:17.280 or nine months later,

00:38:17.960 you get home

00:38:18.480 and all of a sudden

00:38:19.300 you got some time

00:38:20.100 to dwell and dive into that.

00:38:22.440 But I think that you're right

00:38:24.060 that to distract your mind

00:38:27.980 a little bit

00:38:28.540 when you lose somebody

00:38:29.960 is a good thing.

00:38:32.140 The other thing,

00:38:32.940 I mean,

00:38:33.160 as far as like a breakup,

00:38:34.380 what I would tell

00:38:34.920 these young guys

00:38:35.700 when they were breaking up

00:38:36.500 with girls

00:38:37.020 and I actually have

00:38:38.720 three daughters now,

00:38:39.600 so I've run this routine

00:38:40.740 a little bit

00:38:41.340 on the other side as well.

00:38:44.680 And what you've got to realize

00:38:46.820 is that the person

00:38:47.620 that you,

00:38:48.900 the person that you just lost,

00:38:51.160 this person that you built

00:38:52.100 up in your head,

00:38:52.560 they don't really exist.

00:38:53.820 They don't really exist.

00:38:54.680 They're the dream

00:38:55.620 that you have,

00:38:56.240 this ideal that you built,

00:38:57.460 that's not the person.

00:38:59.040 And so you're obsessing

00:38:59.940 over an ideal.

00:39:00.700 You're obsessing over something

00:39:01.540 that's not real.

00:39:02.900 So once you realize,

00:39:04.380 oh,

00:39:04.720 this person was actually

00:39:05.800 treating me bad,

00:39:06.500 this person was actually,

00:39:07.640 actually said things

00:39:09.060 that they shouldn't have said to me,

00:39:10.200 this person wasn't this ideal

00:39:12.020 that I built up.

00:39:13.200 So I,

00:39:14.140 I didn't lose

00:39:15.080 what I think I lost.

00:39:16.500 I lost something much,

00:39:17.860 with much less value

00:39:19.320 than I thought.

00:39:20.260 So I'll go out

00:39:20.760 and look for something

00:39:21.220 with more value.

00:39:23.300 That's exactly right.

00:39:24.440 I don't know if that would work

00:39:24.960 for,

00:39:25.360 or is it Basha?

00:39:25.940 No,

00:39:27.040 Basha,

00:39:27.700 from Basha's face.

00:39:28.900 No,

00:39:29.120 but I love what you just said

00:39:30.080 because I think about this

00:39:31.080 all the time.

00:39:31.600 I've had sadly

00:39:32.660 many friends

00:39:33.960 who have had

00:39:34.540 their husbands cheat

00:39:35.480 or their boyfriends cheat

00:39:36.920 in like massive ways

00:39:38.540 that are,

00:39:38.940 that are really shocking.

00:39:41.400 And,

00:39:41.880 you know,

00:39:42.680 they'll,

00:39:43.040 they'll cry a lot of tears

00:39:44.400 saying,

00:39:44.960 you know,

00:39:45.260 I love him so much.

00:39:46.560 And,

00:39:46.940 you know,

00:39:47.000 we had this perfect marriage

00:39:48.080 and my response is always,

00:39:49.860 but you didn't,

00:39:50.720 but he wasn't this great guy.

00:39:52.300 You're,

00:39:52.460 you're just now finding out,

00:39:53.920 but you didn't have the thing

00:39:54.960 you thought you had.

00:39:55.680 You didn't have for many,

00:39:57.140 many years.

00:39:57.720 It was gone a long time ago.

00:39:58.840 You're just coming to terms

00:39:59.620 with it now.

00:40:00.000 You're just realizing

00:40:00.700 the veil has come down

00:40:02.040 and yes,

00:40:02.880 there's sadness at,

00:40:04.020 at what you thought you had

00:40:05.220 at not having that thing,

00:40:06.580 but you haven't had it

00:40:08.160 for a long,

00:40:08.800 long time.

00:40:09.400 And,

00:40:09.880 and that's somehow soothing.

00:40:11.560 I think,

00:40:12.220 cause it's like,

00:40:12.760 whatever I thought I had,

00:40:14.300 I lost years ago,

00:40:15.080 or maybe I never had it

00:40:15.940 to begin with,

00:40:16.420 but my,

00:40:16.840 my loss is not fresh.

00:40:18.040 It's just the information

00:40:19.000 that is.

00:40:20.000 Yep.

00:40:20.720 I think that's a good attitude

00:40:22.260 to have.

00:40:23.080 Can I ask you,

00:40:23.820 is it freaking terrifying

00:40:25.060 for your daughters

00:40:25.740 to bring boyfriends

00:40:26.580 home to you?

00:40:27.660 Well,

00:40:28.120 when they were going

00:40:28.740 through that phase

00:40:29.400 and I've got one

00:40:30.220 that's 21,

00:40:31.320 one that's just about 20

00:40:32.600 and I've got an 18 year old son

00:40:34.460 and then an 11 year old daughter.

00:40:37.040 I would say that's probably

00:40:38.060 uncomfortable for a young man

00:40:39.380 to come to my house

00:40:40.100 wanting to go out

00:40:40.620 with my daughter.

00:40:41.040 Yeah,

00:40:41.200 I'd agree with that.

00:40:44.220 Do you ever like pull him aside

00:40:46.100 for a talk?

00:40:47.960 Yeah.

00:40:48.920 Yeah.

00:40:49.420 Like a scary talk?

00:40:50.420 Certainly.

00:40:51.380 I mean,

00:40:52.260 you can probably,

00:40:53.220 whatever you think

00:40:54.000 I would say to someone

00:40:54.880 that wants to go out

00:40:55.680 with my daughter

00:40:56.240 is probably pretty close

00:40:57.600 to what I would say.

00:41:01.500 Just walk them by

00:41:02.700 your wall of medals,

00:41:04.480 you know,

00:41:04.840 you with your teammates,

00:41:08.040 your comrades.

00:41:09.940 Just let me give you

00:41:10.820 a tour of the house.

00:41:11.580 I thought you'd like

00:41:12.380 to see where we live.

00:41:14.980 Yeah.

00:41:15.900 Say if you,

00:41:16.820 you know,

00:41:17.280 this is my daughter

00:41:17.940 and don't hurt her.

00:41:21.440 Has anyone ever had

00:41:22.820 the nerve to do that?

00:41:24.080 No,

00:41:24.660 no.

00:41:25.400 Very,

00:41:25.920 very,

00:41:26.200 very nice young men.

00:41:27.700 Very respectful.

00:41:29.280 Oh,

00:41:29.740 I can see why.

00:41:32.260 All right.

00:41:32.800 So let's jump back.

00:41:33.760 Let's jump back

00:41:34.340 to the young you.

00:41:35.500 You go through,

00:41:36.600 it's called BUDS training,

00:41:38.280 basic underwater

00:41:38.920 demolition seal training,

00:41:40.620 which is hideous

00:41:42.140 from what I hear.

00:41:42.740 I mean,

00:41:42.940 maybe not for you,

00:41:43.820 but everyone quits

00:41:45.220 basically,

00:41:45.780 right?

00:41:45.940 Like almost nobody makes it.

00:41:47.620 It's like 80% of people quit

00:41:49.040 and yeah,

00:41:50.060 it was,

00:41:50.500 it was definitely fun.

00:41:51.380 If your mindset

00:41:52.040 is that it's going to be fun,

00:41:53.180 it's fun.

00:41:54.060 Believe it or not,

00:41:54.780 you're laughing a bunch.

00:41:55.880 There's all kinds

00:41:56.520 of crazy things happen.

00:41:57.780 It's,

00:41:58.120 it's a good time.

00:41:58.840 I had a good time

00:41:59.460 and I'm not saying

00:42:00.540 it was easy.

00:42:01.660 Some,

00:42:02.120 sometimes I've had

00:42:02.800 my seal buddies say like,

00:42:04.240 oh,

00:42:04.320 you made it sound

00:42:04.800 like it was easy.

00:42:05.540 It's not easy.

00:42:06.340 No,

00:42:06.640 it's,

00:42:06.980 it's definitely going to suck.

00:42:08.480 It's hard

00:42:09.220 and you're going

00:42:10.200 to get pushed

00:42:10.820 and you're going

00:42:11.980 to,

00:42:12.360 no matter who you are,

00:42:14.060 there's your,

00:42:14.760 there's going to be,

00:42:15.680 there's going to be weakness revealed.

00:42:17.240 There's no one that goes through there

00:42:18.560 that doesn't have any weakness revealed.

00:42:20.400 Some people can't handle the water.

00:42:22.320 Some people can't handle the cold.

00:42:23.720 Some people can't handle the being tired.

00:42:26.000 Some people can't handle the physical abuse.

00:42:28.120 And by that,

00:42:28.560 I just mean

00:42:29.080 that your body is getting beat down

00:42:31.640 every single day.

00:42:32.300 So in some,

00:42:33.900 maybe some people can't hold their breath

00:42:35.580 very well.

00:42:36.680 So there's going to be weakness.

00:42:37.960 Everyone's going to have a weakness.

00:42:38.880 It's going to get found out.

00:42:39.840 It's going to get exploited

00:42:40.780 and it's going to get picked apart

00:42:42.880 and you're either going to quit

00:42:45.500 or you're going to suck it up

00:42:46.640 and make it through.

00:42:47.740 So I'm not saying it's easy,

00:42:49.260 but it's also to me,

00:42:51.120 it's not,

00:42:52.020 some people make it out

00:42:52.880 like it's this big transformational thing

00:42:54.780 in their life.

00:42:55.820 And I think a lot of people show up there.

00:42:59.680 They,

00:43:00.280 they were going to have to kill me

00:43:01.880 to make me quit.

00:43:03.140 I never thought about quitting in any way.

00:43:04.880 And if they would have said,

00:43:05.780 Hey,

00:43:05.860 you got to die now.

00:43:06.440 I would have been said,

00:43:07.220 cool,

00:43:07.460 let's,

00:43:07.720 let's rock and roll.

00:43:08.700 So I never thought about quitting.

00:43:11.080 And I don't think it's,

00:43:13.820 some people make it out

00:43:14.960 to be a bigger deal than it is.

00:43:16.140 I'm not saying it's easy.

00:43:17.300 It's definitely hard.

00:43:19.000 It wasn't easy for me.

00:43:20.980 I'm like,

00:43:21.640 I already told you,

00:43:22.580 I'm not the fastest runner.

00:43:23.520 I'm not the fastest swimmer.

00:43:24.600 I had to,

00:43:25.480 let me,

00:43:25.980 let me give you an example

00:43:26.680 for every timed run

00:43:28.400 that we did,

00:43:29.600 which I think you do

00:43:30.480 at least one timed run a week,

00:43:33.540 like a four mile timed run

00:43:34.820 in soft sand with boots on

00:43:36.460 every one of those.

00:43:38.140 I had to run

00:43:38.660 as fast as I possibly could

00:43:41.300 to pass.

00:43:42.700 So then the swims

00:43:44.000 were the same way.

00:43:44.760 Every one I did,

00:43:45.520 I had to swim

00:43:46.060 as hard as I possibly could.

00:43:47.540 Like my life depended on it

00:43:48.660 to pass obstacle course.

00:43:50.480 Same thing.

00:43:51.000 Just about everything there

00:43:51.960 was,

00:43:52.760 was a challenge for me.

00:43:54.360 So I'm not saying it's easy,

00:43:55.280 but you suck it up.

00:43:57.720 You're,

00:43:58.100 you're cold,

00:43:58.680 you're wet,

00:43:59.100 you're miserable

00:43:59.540 and you have to work hard.

00:44:00.900 It's not,

00:44:01.480 it's not that crazy of a thing.

00:44:03.620 Well,

00:44:03.660 that's where you drew

00:44:04.420 your inside straight

00:44:05.300 and just not being a quitter,

00:44:06.820 being raised to just,

00:44:07.680 you just don't quit.

00:44:08.480 That's just,

00:44:09.240 you just don't period.

00:44:10.460 So it's like not even there

00:44:12.200 for an option

00:44:13.260 for somebody like you,

00:44:14.740 but for the rest of us mere mortals,

00:44:16.500 it's there and it's lovely

00:44:17.580 when you really need it.

00:44:19.500 But wait,

00:44:19.980 can you just talk

00:44:20.960 a little bit more

00:44:21.600 about the physical?

00:44:23.120 I think,

00:44:23.920 you know,

00:44:24.180 maybe people don't know

00:44:26.240 what,

00:44:26.760 what I don't,

00:44:27.780 I don't understand

00:44:28.360 what the physical challenges are.

00:44:29.400 Like,

00:44:29.500 what do they do to you

00:44:30.080 that during hell week?

00:44:31.460 Hell week,

00:44:32.700 you don't get to sleep.

00:44:33.900 You probably sleep an hour,

00:44:35.660 maybe two hours during the week

00:44:36.940 and you do a bunch

00:44:38.580 of physical exercises

00:44:39.400 the whole time,

00:44:39.980 carrying logs around,

00:44:40.800 carrying boats around,

00:44:42.120 being,

00:44:42.460 they put you in the water,

00:44:44.080 which Southern California water,

00:44:45.780 I know from Baywatch,

00:44:46.880 everyone thinks the water

00:44:47.700 is probably 75 degrees

00:44:49.580 or 80 degrees

00:44:50.360 like a tropical island.

00:44:51.340 It's not,

00:44:51.920 it's 55 to 60 degrees

00:44:53.900 most of the time.

00:44:54.960 It's cold.

00:44:56.020 And so they make you cold,

00:44:57.540 wet,

00:44:57.740 miserable and tired

00:44:58.580 and make you do

00:44:59.600 a bunch of physical evolutions

00:45:00.560 and they get a bunch

00:45:01.600 of people to quit.

00:45:03.060 And as far as

00:45:03.940 what the actual exercises are,

00:45:05.660 it's whatever dumb exercises

00:45:07.160 a person can do.

00:45:08.560 You do push-ups

00:45:09.180 until you can't do

00:45:09.940 any push-ups anymore

00:45:10.660 and then you do squats

00:45:11.620 until you can't do squats anymore

00:45:12.700 and then you carry a log

00:45:13.500 until you can't carry

00:45:14.080 the log anymore

00:45:14.640 and then they go back

00:45:15.600 to push-ups

00:45:16.040 and they just do that

00:45:16.740 over and over and over again

00:45:17.740 until they get,

00:45:19.200 until they test people's,

00:45:20.980 test how people,

00:45:21.940 how badly people

00:45:22.740 want to be there.

00:45:23.260 So when you say quit though,

00:45:25.080 does it mean

00:45:25.540 I quit the Navy SEALs training,

00:45:27.120 I'm out of BUDS training

00:45:27.960 or is it like,

00:45:29.080 I mean,

00:45:29.260 because you have physical limits,

00:45:31.580 right?

00:45:31.780 Like at some point

00:45:32.960 your arms stop doing the push-ups.

00:45:35.240 Like so failing

00:45:36.660 or your body stopping at the task,

00:45:39.420 is that considered quitting?

00:45:41.640 Well,

00:45:42.400 like let's say with push-ups,

00:45:43.700 it's a good example

00:45:44.320 and push-ups are probably

00:45:45.140 the one thing that you,

00:45:47.740 hey,

00:45:47.900 if you can't do any more push-ups,

00:45:49.080 cool,

00:45:49.240 lay on the ground,

00:45:50.000 face down

00:45:50.500 while you're getting

00:45:51.500 somebody spraying you

00:45:52.400 in the head with a hose

00:45:53.320 from two feet away

00:45:54.820 and in another 30 seconds

00:45:56.600 you can do one more push-up

00:45:57.540 so you can go

00:45:58.280 a little bit further.

00:45:59.220 Carrying that boat,

00:46:00.120 you may fall down

00:46:01.300 and you lay there for a minute

00:46:02.900 and you get back up

00:46:03.900 and you keep going.

00:46:04.980 So I guess

00:46:06.180 you're right.

00:46:08.020 Obviously there's,

00:46:09.100 you do a certain number

00:46:10.100 of physical things.

00:46:11.000 How many pull-ups can you do?

00:46:12.220 At a point you can't,

00:46:13.340 you're no human,

00:46:15.540 there's a certain point

00:46:16.340 where no human can do

00:46:17.120 any more pull-ups

00:46:17.960 and what do you do then?

00:46:19.540 You drop off the bar,

00:46:20.420 you shake it out

00:46:21.200 and then you try again

00:46:22.460 and you keep trying.

00:46:23.740 So that's the deal.

00:46:25.500 Don't quit.

00:46:26.100 Keep trying.

00:46:27.500 What if you don't run

00:46:28.440 the four-minute run

00:46:29.940 in the sand

00:46:30.680 with the boots on

00:46:31.700 fast enough?

00:46:32.680 Like I'm sure there's a time

00:46:34.000 by which they want you to do it.

00:46:35.420 What if you don't?

00:46:36.840 So when I went through

00:46:38.120 and it always changes a little bit,

00:46:40.600 it doesn't change a lot

00:46:41.300 but when I went through,

00:46:42.620 if you failed one run,

00:46:44.760 you got written up.

00:46:45.940 If you failed two runs,

00:46:47.340 you were gone.

00:46:47.900 If you failed one swim,

00:46:49.780 you were written up.

00:46:50.500 If you failed two swims,

00:46:51.340 you were gone.

00:46:51.920 If you failed one obstacle course,

00:46:53.720 you were written up.

00:46:54.300 If you failed two,

00:46:54.820 you were gone.

00:46:55.320 I failed one run

00:46:57.080 and one swim

00:46:58.000 and I never failed

00:47:00.280 another one luckily.

00:47:01.300 And the one that actually,

00:47:02.160 this is where I learned this,

00:47:03.040 the one that I was,

00:47:03.800 the one that I failed,

00:47:04.880 the run that I failed,

00:47:06.560 I decided,

00:47:08.700 I was like,

00:47:09.200 oh, you know what?

00:47:09.760 I'm going to pace myself today.

00:47:11.520 So I went out,

00:47:12.540 didn't run as hard

00:47:13.140 as I possibly could

00:47:13.920 and I failed.

00:47:15.300 And from that day on,

00:47:16.220 I said to myself,

00:47:17.120 okay, well,

00:47:17.920 if you got to run,

00:47:18.660 run as hard as you possibly can.

00:47:20.080 That's the only way

00:47:20.640 you're going to pass

00:47:21.100 and that's what I did.

00:47:21.980 Pass the rest of them.

00:47:23.720 Oh my God,

00:47:24.040 it's just like

00:47:24.520 Officer and a Gentleman.

00:47:27.100 I saw the hose

00:47:28.180 go into Richard Gere's face.

00:47:29.480 I thought it was

00:47:29.900 a made up Hollywood thing.

00:47:31.060 I guess it's real,

00:47:31.960 although that wasn't Navy SEAL

00:47:33.120 and you didn't wind up

00:47:34.980 with Deborah Winger at the end.

00:47:37.060 I'm sure you did better than that.

00:47:38.480 I did much better

00:47:41.220 than Deborah Winger.

00:47:42.440 How long is the whole thing?

00:47:43.660 The training

00:47:44.120 and then I assume

00:47:45.020 Hell Week is just seven days.

00:47:47.000 Yeah,

00:47:47.560 I think it's actually

00:47:48.380 only five days.

00:47:49.180 It starts Sunday night

00:47:50.480 and then it ends on Friday.

00:47:52.300 And how long is BUDS training?

00:47:54.140 BUDS is six months.

00:47:56.140 Okay.

00:47:56.860 All right,

00:47:57.080 let me ask you

00:47:57.460 a personal question.

00:47:58.560 Did you ever break down in tears?

00:48:00.640 No.

00:48:01.440 Were you ever close?

00:48:03.280 No.

00:48:04.480 No.

00:48:05.720 You're just not built that way.

00:48:07.220 You have a mental toughness gene

00:48:09.680 that you came into the world with,

00:48:11.040 it sounds like.

00:48:12.040 I don't actually remember

00:48:13.100 too many.

00:48:14.800 Guys would occasionally

00:48:15.680 break down

00:48:16.300 for whatever reason,

00:48:17.920 but most guys,

00:48:18.780 there's not a bunch of guys

00:48:19.720 showing up there

00:48:20.240 that are getting ready to cry

00:48:21.260 when something goes wrong.

00:48:24.360 That's not the SEAL

00:48:25.780 that we're looking for.

00:48:27.340 Wait,

00:48:27.560 I'm sure I should know

00:48:28.300 the answer to this,

00:48:29.020 but didn't I just see

00:48:29.860 that women are now

00:48:30.920 able to be Navy SEALs?

00:48:32.560 They weren't,

00:48:33.120 but are they now?

00:48:34.300 The pipeline

00:48:35.160 is open

00:48:36.020 at this time.

00:48:37.240 So they,

00:48:37.720 so for,

00:48:39.680 well,

00:48:40.200 it used to be

00:48:40.760 that women

00:48:41.700 were not allowed

00:48:42.860 in combat roles

00:48:44.280 and then they changed that

00:48:46.280 so that women

00:48:46.760 are allowed

00:48:47.260 in combat roles,

00:48:48.260 which means

00:48:48.880 they can go

00:48:50.560 in an infantry battalion,

00:48:52.040 they can,

00:48:52.480 or an infantry,

00:48:53.560 any of the combat arms

00:48:55.000 in the Army

00:48:55.700 or the Marine Corps

00:48:56.180 and in the Navy,

00:48:58.480 that would be,

00:48:59.360 that would be

00:49:00.360 the trying

00:49:01.600 for the SEAL teams.

00:49:02.180 I mean,

00:49:03.800 so I've got,

00:49:04.980 I've got pretty

00:49:05.800 defined feelings on this.

00:49:07.020 I'm all for women

00:49:08.060 giving it a go.

00:49:09.560 I think it's awesome

00:49:10.240 if they want to try it,

00:49:11.220 support them 100%,

00:49:12.220 but I'm definitely not

00:49:13.040 for lowering of standards,

00:49:14.240 whether it's the,

00:49:14.820 the firefighters,

00:49:16.280 the cops,

00:49:17.640 the military.

00:49:18.780 I think,

00:49:19.460 you know,

00:49:19.540 the standards are

00:49:20.120 what they are,

00:49:20.960 but I think in some instances

00:49:22.620 that would probably

00:49:23.220 be unrealistic

00:49:24.000 if you're talking about

00:49:24.740 bench pressing

00:49:25.540 a certain number.

00:49:26.780 I mean,

00:49:26.900 you know,

00:49:27.100 women are not physically

00:49:28.060 as strong as men

00:49:29.400 as a general rule.

00:49:30.360 So what do you think

00:49:31.960 the odds are

00:49:32.740 that a woman

00:49:33.260 could make it through

00:49:34.240 Bud's training?

00:49:35.560 I don't think

00:49:36.100 the odds are very good

00:49:37.040 that a,

00:49:37.580 that a female

00:49:38.100 could make it through.

00:49:39.160 What do you think

00:49:39.880 would do her in?

00:49:40.480 I don't know

00:49:41.000 what the number,

00:49:41.600 I don't,

00:49:42.160 well,

00:49:42.940 what it wouldn't be,

00:49:44.760 you know,

00:49:45.400 let's say you had

00:49:45.960 a triathlete

00:49:46.940 that could do really well

00:49:48.100 on the runs

00:49:48.560 and the swims,

00:49:49.260 but then probably

00:49:51.600 not ready to do

00:49:52.600 deadlifts

00:49:53.160 and buddy carries

00:49:53.840 and log PTs

00:49:55.180 carrying the logs around.

00:49:57.220 And so I think,

00:49:58.380 I think what,

00:49:59.100 I think the problem

00:49:59.900 will be

00:50:00.560 having the range

00:50:02.560 of physical capability

00:50:05.120 and look,

00:50:07.880 there's,

00:50:08.180 there's females

00:50:08.660 obviously that are

00:50:09.740 incredible athletes

00:50:11.240 and incredibly strong

00:50:12.240 and,

00:50:12.580 and everybody knows that.

00:50:14.300 But I think just finding

00:50:15.160 that range

00:50:15.700 will be the biggest challenge.

00:50:16.980 Finding someone that's,

00:50:18.200 there's,

00:50:18.460 there's females

00:50:18.940 that are very strong,

00:50:20.260 you know,

00:50:20.500 an Olympic lifter

00:50:21.400 or a power lifter,

00:50:22.840 incredibly strong.

00:50:23.800 And there's females

00:50:25.120 that are incredibly fast.

00:50:26.300 I think what will be challenging

00:50:28.060 because it's challenging

00:50:29.060 for guys too,

00:50:30.320 or it's challenging

00:50:31.220 for,

00:50:31.720 for men as well

00:50:32.860 is,

00:50:33.660 you know,

00:50:33.780 if you've got someone

00:50:34.300 that's a power lifter

00:50:35.600 that's super strong,

00:50:37.000 they have a hard time

00:50:38.000 running fast.

00:50:39.480 And,

00:50:40.040 and if you have someone

00:50:40.720 that's super fast,

00:50:41.560 they have a hard time

00:50:42.480 carrying that boat

00:50:43.160 on their head

00:50:43.680 or lifting that log.

00:50:45.160 So it's just the range

00:50:47.360 that I think

00:50:47.780 is going to be

00:50:48.240 the biggest challenge.

00:50:50.300 I just don't think,

00:50:51.440 I think people get confused.

00:50:52.760 Equality doesn't mean

00:50:53.860 we have to be able

00:50:54.600 to do the exact same jobs.

00:50:56.300 Otherwise,

00:50:56.740 we don't have equality.

00:50:58.040 We have to be realistic

00:50:58.780 about what our

00:50:59.580 physical limitations are,

00:51:01.000 what,

00:51:01.340 what women are better at

00:51:02.520 than men

00:51:02.940 and what we're not.

00:51:04.640 I like to joke

00:51:05.520 that I'm secretly a Marine

00:51:06.760 because at my last job,

00:51:09.380 they sent me down

00:51:09.960 at Camp Lejeune

00:51:10.680 and I spent a few days

00:51:12.220 with the Marines down there

00:51:13.200 pretending that I was

00:51:13.920 training with them

00:51:14.540 and I had to actually do

00:51:15.500 a lot of what they were doing.

00:51:16.660 I was such a pathetic mess.

00:51:18.040 You would have been horrified

00:51:19.060 by me, Jocko.

00:51:19.660 You would have been horrified.

00:51:20.740 I could not get over

00:51:21.600 any of the walls.

00:51:22.460 I couldn't climb on the ropes.

00:51:24.000 I was like,

00:51:24.740 I enjoyed the mess hall.

00:51:27.500 But it was fun

00:51:28.240 sleeping in the barracks

00:51:29.080 and sort of,

00:51:29.560 you know,

00:51:30.020 trying to pretend

00:51:30.980 that in some other

00:51:32.120 really,

00:51:32.940 really tough version of myself

00:51:33.920 I could have done this.

00:51:34.840 But one thing

00:51:35.740 the guys did tell me

00:51:36.600 is women there,

00:51:38.900 at least,

00:51:39.280 have proven to be

00:51:40.020 better shots than men.

00:51:42.780 Their aim

00:51:43.560 and their ability

00:51:44.360 to sort of control

00:51:44.920 their breathing

00:51:45.380 and their sort of focus

00:51:46.880 in shooting

00:51:47.460 had proven to be

00:51:48.820 very exceptional.

00:51:50.180 So that's great, right?

00:51:51.100 So that's something

00:51:51.820 we could take advantage of

00:51:53.160 and we could,

00:51:53.580 we could not force

00:51:55.240 but filter women

00:51:56.420 into that kind of a role.

00:51:58.540 But we don't need

00:51:58.960 to pretend

00:51:59.260 that they can do

00:51:59.760 the deadlift

00:52:00.360 and carry a 240-pound man

00:52:02.040 in order for them

00:52:02.640 to be valuable

00:52:03.320 to the military.

00:52:04.760 Yeah,

00:52:05.040 and I just,

00:52:06.240 you know,

00:52:06.500 there's men

00:52:07.280 that are good shots,

00:52:08.020 there's women

00:52:08.340 that are good shots.

00:52:09.240 I just look at them

00:52:10.000 as people

00:52:10.500 and if you can

00:52:11.800 do the job,

00:52:12.340 cool.

00:52:13.020 What about,

00:52:14.220 can you imagine

00:52:14.700 being deployed

00:52:15.620 side-by-side

00:52:17.140 with women

00:52:17.880 and how do you think,

00:52:19.500 how is that?

00:52:20.440 You know,

00:52:21.280 I guess,

00:52:22.280 you know,

00:52:22.520 you weren't,

00:52:22.900 you were with Navy SEALs,

00:52:23.860 but I'm sure you had

00:52:24.580 other branches

00:52:25.520 of the military

00:52:26.080 that you were with

00:52:26.680 when you saw women

00:52:27.240 in combat.

00:52:28.180 Or did you?

00:52:29.160 Yeah,

00:52:29.380 there's definitely

00:52:30.120 females around.

00:52:30.880 I didn't have

00:52:31.260 any females

00:52:31.860 attached to

00:52:32.860 any of the units

00:52:34.080 that I was

00:52:35.820 in charge of.

00:52:37.960 But,

00:52:38.900 you know,

00:52:39.220 it's relationship stuff

00:52:40.680 that'll have to get

00:52:41.800 worked out.

00:52:42.580 Obviously,

00:52:42.820 there's a whole

00:52:43.800 nother,

00:52:44.840 a whole nother

00:52:46.000 aspect

00:52:46.520 that comes into play

00:52:48.040 when you put

00:52:49.340 men and women together.

00:52:50.640 I don't think

00:52:51.020 there's any question

00:52:51.820 about that.

00:52:53.280 So,

00:52:53.720 you know,

00:52:54.040 they do it on,

00:52:55.120 do it in some

00:52:55.840 countries.

00:52:57.580 They've done it

00:52:58.120 and they do it.

00:52:59.080 I mean,

00:52:59.380 the Navy,

00:53:00.100 on Navy ships,

00:53:01.000 there's male

00:53:01.660 and females

00:53:02.180 co-located.

00:53:02.980 And there's,

00:53:04.940 you know,

00:53:05.420 so we know

00:53:06.200 kind of what

00:53:06.720 that looks like.

00:53:08.620 I know it's fraught

00:53:09.260 because,

00:53:09.680 you know,

00:53:10.180 the politically

00:53:10.940 correct line is,

00:53:12.260 yes,

00:53:12.460 women can do it all.

00:53:13.260 Women in combat

00:53:13.780 is great

00:53:14.300 and women,

00:53:15.100 you know,

00:53:15.360 in the military

00:53:15.840 is great.

00:53:17.180 I think we can

00:53:18.520 accept that there's

00:53:19.840 amazing opportunities

00:53:20.700 for women

00:53:21.200 and that we're

00:53:21.660 equality,

00:53:22.340 that we have

00:53:22.980 equality without

00:53:23.800 diminishing

00:53:25.060 some of the

00:53:26.040 weird dynamics

00:53:27.060 that come from

00:53:28.000 this change

00:53:29.280 and the way

00:53:29.620 we used to do it.

00:53:30.300 And I think

00:53:30.600 it's healthy

00:53:31.560 and I think

00:53:32.160 that's the way

00:53:32.940 we get past

00:53:33.480 them by being

00:53:34.320 honest about

00:53:35.060 what the oddities

00:53:36.180 are and

00:53:36.720 what the solutions

00:53:38.080 are.

00:53:38.560 You know,

00:53:38.720 the guys I talked

00:53:39.460 to and the gals

00:53:40.120 down at Camp Lejeune

00:53:40.900 were like,

00:53:41.460 once you're out

00:53:42.180 there and you're

00:53:42.600 training,

00:53:43.240 you know,

00:53:43.420 you don't see

00:53:43.740 gender,

00:53:44.280 right?

00:53:44.480 You just see

00:53:44.840 like,

00:53:45.080 who's on your

00:53:45.460 team and

00:53:46.340 that's what

00:53:46.600 matters.

00:53:47.120 But I've

00:53:48.300 never actually

00:53:48.680 been in battle

00:53:49.300 and the young

00:53:49.980 ones I'd spoken

00:53:51.300 to down there

00:53:51.780 hadn't either.

00:53:52.620 It's a training

00:53:53.100 camp.

00:53:53.580 So as somebody

00:53:54.820 who's actually

00:53:55.120 been there,

00:53:55.520 but I guess

00:53:56.060 you haven't

00:53:56.260 been next to

00:53:56.820 women or working

00:53:58.060 with women there.

00:53:58.620 I wondered

00:53:58.920 what your

00:53:59.240 thoughts were.

00:54:00.460 No,

00:54:00.980 I misspoke a

00:54:02.680 little bit or

00:54:03.200 I didn't make

00:54:03.760 myself clear.

00:54:04.320 So in my

00:54:05.860 particular units,

00:54:06.740 in my SEAL

00:54:07.340 platoon,

00:54:08.020 I didn't have

00:54:08.560 any women.

00:54:09.060 There was no

00:54:09.420 women allowed

00:54:09.900 when I was a

00:54:10.800 SEAL platoon

00:54:11.100 commander.

00:54:11.720 In my task

00:54:12.260 unit,

00:54:12.500 there was no

00:54:12.840 women attached

00:54:13.360 to us.

00:54:14.720 So I never,

00:54:15.340 but there was

00:54:15.800 female army

00:54:17.640 around,

00:54:19.040 there was female

00:54:19.720 Marines around

00:54:20.420 and I never

00:54:22.660 had any issues

00:54:23.260 with them.

00:54:24.220 In fact,

00:54:24.740 there's some

00:54:25.620 incredible warriors

00:54:26.760 throughout history,

00:54:27.920 females that

00:54:29.300 served incredibly

00:54:31.480 and performed

00:54:33.040 heroically in

00:54:34.200 combat.

00:54:34.740 So it is

00:54:35.540 possible.

00:54:36.180 It is,

00:54:36.400 it is,

00:54:36.880 I mean,

00:54:37.160 it's,

00:54:37.500 it has happened.

00:54:39.640 So,

00:54:40.040 you know,

00:54:41.080 whether it's good

00:54:41.660 or bad,

00:54:41.920 I mean,

00:54:42.080 I think it all

00:54:42.660 boils down to

00:54:43.100 what you already

00:54:43.500 said and I

00:54:43.920 think this is

00:54:44.240 kind of,

00:54:44.840 this has kind

00:54:45.460 of become

00:54:45.940 the answer

00:54:48.480 is don't

00:54:50.280 lower standards

00:54:51.040 and see what

00:54:52.460 happens.

00:54:53.780 And unfortunately,

00:54:54.680 I think there

00:54:56.000 is political

00:54:56.620 pressure to try

00:54:57.700 and force

00:54:58.360 things to

00:54:59.120 happen a certain

00:55:00.040 way.

00:55:00.920 And if you do

00:55:01.880 that,

00:55:02.260 it's not going

00:55:02.700 to be good.

00:55:03.880 No,

00:55:04.340 I mean,

00:55:04.560 you're talking

00:55:04.840 about life

00:55:05.200 and death

00:55:05.500 stuff now.

00:55:06.260 I mean,

00:55:06.500 like there's

00:55:07.280 a limit to

00:55:08.360 where wokeness

00:55:09.100 can take over

00:55:09.740 our lives.

00:55:10.480 And when you're

00:55:10.800 talking about

00:55:11.160 the survival

00:55:12.580 of men and

00:55:14.980 women who have

00:55:15.420 volunteered to go

00:55:16.240 save our country,

00:55:17.460 protect our country

00:55:18.100 on the foreign

00:55:18.960 battlefields,

00:55:19.700 that's it.

00:55:20.320 Like,

00:55:20.960 either you can do

00:55:21.440 it or you can't.

00:55:22.180 And women

00:55:22.600 are strong enough

00:55:24.100 to be able to say

00:55:24.940 that I can't

00:55:25.960 do.

00:55:26.360 This I can.

00:55:27.160 I can kick

00:55:27.580 ass over here.

00:55:28.300 Can't quite do

00:55:28.820 that thing.

00:55:29.740 And let's

00:55:30.540 work with that.

00:55:31.720 You know,

00:55:31.900 once again,

00:55:32.360 people,

00:55:32.780 I feel like

00:55:33.320 these like,

00:55:34.140 I don't know,

00:55:34.860 PC jerks just

00:55:36.100 treat us like

00:55:36.600 we're little

00:55:36.900 cupcakes and we

00:55:38.060 can't understand

00:55:38.700 that this job

00:55:39.740 you can't do

00:55:40.220 because you're

00:55:40.480 not strong

00:55:40.880 enough.

00:55:41.740 We get it.

00:55:42.840 And that doesn't

00:55:43.940 mean we don't

00:55:44.220 have other great

00:55:44.960 qualities.

00:55:45.680 It's just

00:55:45.860 bullshit.

00:55:46.440 Anyway,

00:55:46.820 okay,

00:55:47.040 now I'm going

00:55:47.640 to rant.

00:55:48.520 All right,

00:55:48.920 so let's go

00:55:49.340 back to your

00:55:49.980 Navy career.

00:55:51.440 You worked

00:55:52.600 in the Navy.

00:55:53.220 You were

00:55:53.440 SEAL for 13

00:55:54.140 years before

00:55:54.920 you actually

00:55:56.340 got deployed.

00:55:57.220 Is that

00:55:57.520 right?

00:55:58.500 To serve

00:55:59.620 in an

00:55:59.860 actual

00:56:00.800 battlefield.

00:56:02.940 Yeah,

00:56:03.120 so I was

00:56:03.860 in from

00:56:04.220 1990 until

00:56:04.980 2010.

00:56:06.540 And between

00:56:08.120 1990 and

00:56:10.180 2003,

00:56:12.180 there was,

00:56:12.840 I didn't go

00:56:13.280 on any

00:56:13.580 combat

00:56:14.060 deployments.

00:56:15.180 And quite

00:56:15.920 frankly,

00:56:16.340 neither did

00:56:16.660 too many

00:56:16.940 other people

00:56:17.420 because there

00:56:17.760 was no

00:56:17.940 wars going

00:56:18.320 on.

00:56:18.740 And then

00:56:18.900 in 2003,

00:56:19.640 deployed to

00:56:20.000 Iraq.

00:56:20.320 And that's

00:56:21.320 where I

00:56:22.660 did my

00:56:23.200 first combat

00:56:23.720 operations.

00:56:25.920 So you

00:56:26.340 wind up in

00:56:27.700 Ramadi.

00:56:28.900 And I was

00:56:30.100 at Fox at

00:56:30.920 the time

00:56:31.220 covering the

00:56:32.440 war.

00:56:33.000 And those

00:56:33.860 were just

00:56:34.200 the darkest

00:56:34.640 days.

00:56:35.680 And Ramadi

00:56:36.400 was awful.

00:56:38.920 And you

00:56:39.680 were right

00:56:39.980 there in

00:56:40.260 the middle

00:56:41.000 of it.

00:56:41.680 And over

00:56:42.280 here,

00:56:43.200 it seemed

00:56:44.460 like hell.

00:56:47.080 And I

00:56:47.340 read that

00:56:47.900 you,

00:56:48.280 well,

00:56:48.480 no,

00:56:48.640 you told

00:56:49.160 Tim Ferriss

00:56:49.900 Ramadi

00:56:50.600 was the

00:56:51.000 highlight

00:56:51.320 of my

00:56:51.740 life.

00:56:52.780 So walk

00:56:53.700 me through

00:56:54.080 that.

00:56:54.820 How can

00:56:55.300 that be?

00:56:56.640 As I was

00:56:57.280 talking to

00:56:57.640 you earlier

00:56:58.000 and I

00:56:58.200 said that

00:56:58.500 the only

00:56:59.020 thing I

00:56:59.340 ever wanted

00:56:59.780 to do

00:57:00.160 was be

00:57:00.560 some

00:57:00.780 kind of

00:57:01.120 commando.

00:57:02.540 And

00:57:03.000 then that's

00:57:04.760 what I

00:57:05.060 did.

00:57:05.860 And when

00:57:06.240 you're a

00:57:06.540 commando,

00:57:07.040 you have

00:57:07.400 one purpose.

00:57:08.940 You have

00:57:09.140 one job,

00:57:09.820 and that is

00:57:10.160 to go to

00:57:10.560 war.

00:57:11.480 And you

00:57:12.640 want to

00:57:13.020 do that.

00:57:15.220 I mean,

00:57:15.660 it's like

00:57:16.300 if you're on

00:57:17.040 a football

00:57:17.380 team and

00:57:17.920 you practice

00:57:18.680 all the

00:57:18.960 time and

00:57:19.740 you never

00:57:20.080 played a

00:57:20.640 game,

00:57:21.380 you'd really

00:57:21.880 want to

00:57:22.120 play that

00:57:22.400 game.

00:57:22.860 Well,

00:57:22.980 now imagine

00:57:23.440 that you

00:57:23.900 spent your

00:57:24.740 whole life

00:57:25.380 sort of

00:57:26.300 preparing for

00:57:27.540 this game

00:57:29.080 and now the

00:57:30.160 game shows

00:57:30.840 up and it's

00:57:31.840 a hard game.

00:57:32.600 It's a

00:57:32.820 challenging

00:57:33.140 game.

00:57:33.940 The opponent

00:57:34.720 is tough

00:57:35.340 and you

00:57:36.620 go to

00:57:37.480 war.

00:57:38.220 So that's

00:57:39.180 why.

00:57:39.520 It was

00:57:39.680 definitely

00:57:39.940 the highlight

00:57:40.320 of my

00:57:40.560 life.

00:57:42.340 You finally

00:57:43.160 got to do

00:57:43.780 the very

00:57:44.540 thing you

00:57:44.940 were trained

00:57:45.280 to do

00:57:45.720 and were

00:57:46.580 amazing

00:57:46.980 at.

00:57:50.440 Coming up

00:57:51.080 in one

00:57:51.340 second,

00:57:51.600 I'm going

00:57:51.780 to ask

00:57:52.060 Jaco about

00:57:52.760 some of

00:57:53.340 the most

00:57:53.860 heroic,

00:57:55.780 decorated,

00:57:57.080 inspirational

00:57:58.220 Navy SEALs

00:57:59.380 that have

00:58:00.260 ever lived

00:58:00.980 that he

00:58:01.900 knows and

00:58:03.200 knew and

00:58:03.840 worked

00:58:04.100 directly

00:58:04.500 with.

00:58:05.140 You're

00:58:05.580 going to

00:58:05.740 want to

00:58:05.960 hear this.

00:58:06.440 I promise

00:58:06.860 you that.

00:58:07.500 But before

00:58:07.800 we get to

00:58:08.140 that,

00:58:09.080 I want to

00:58:09.260 bring you

00:58:09.460 a feature

00:58:09.740 we call

00:58:10.120 You Can't

00:58:10.680 Say That

00:58:11.260 or Think

00:58:14.940 That

00:58:15.260 or Do

00:58:15.800 That.

00:58:16.180 Oh wait,

00:58:16.760 this is

00:58:17.080 America.

00:58:18.460 Well, we

00:58:18.740 all know

00:58:19.020 that you

00:58:19.200 can get

00:58:19.440 canceled

00:58:19.760 for writing

00:58:20.240 certain

00:58:20.580 books,

00:58:21.300 but did

00:58:21.940 you know

00:58:22.300 that you

00:58:22.580 can be

00:58:22.840 canceled

00:58:23.180 for liking

00:58:24.440 certain

00:58:25.120 books?

00:58:25.900 You can,

00:58:27.040 especially

00:58:27.440 if it's

00:58:27.840 a dangerous

00:58:28.620 book.

00:58:29.540 Who decides

00:58:30.020 what dangerous

00:58:30.860 is?

00:58:31.600 People with

00:58:32.060 whom you

00:58:32.380 do not

00:58:32.640 agree.

00:58:33.900 I can

00:58:34.120 guarantee

00:58:34.380 you that.

00:58:35.360 So do

00:58:35.540 you like

00:58:35.720 the band

00:58:36.100 Mumford

00:58:36.680 and Sons?

00:58:37.180 We talked

00:58:37.460 about this

00:58:37.740 the other

00:58:37.960 day.

00:58:38.760 Well, one

00:58:39.040 of the

00:58:39.220 members of

00:58:39.540 the group,

00:58:40.200 Winston

00:58:40.560 Marshall,

00:58:41.260 had the

00:58:42.200 nerve to

00:58:42.960 tweet some

00:58:43.640 praise for

00:58:44.480 Andy Ngo's

00:58:45.540 book,

00:58:46.460 Unmasked.

00:58:47.020 You remember

00:58:47.280 Andy, we

00:58:47.700 had him on

00:58:47.980 the program

00:58:48.360 to talk

00:58:48.700 about his

00:58:48.980 book on

00:58:49.320 Antifa.

00:58:50.440 You remember

00:58:50.800 he was

00:58:51.340 talking about

00:58:51.800 their riots

00:58:52.900 and how

00:58:53.200 nobody was

00:58:53.560 cracking down

00:58:54.020 on them

00:58:54.260 and their

00:58:54.560 disgusting

00:58:55.440 methods of

00:58:56.020 attacking

00:58:56.320 people?

00:58:57.260 Well,

00:58:57.960 apparently

00:58:58.320 Marshall really

00:58:58.920 liked the

00:58:59.220 book and

00:58:59.860 he tweeted

00:59:00.260 out,

00:59:00.660 quote,

00:59:00.860 finally had

00:59:01.360 the time

00:59:01.840 to read

00:59:02.600 your important

00:59:03.140 book.

00:59:03.680 You're a

00:59:03.960 brave man

00:59:04.560 to Andy,

00:59:05.220 who of

00:59:05.640 course got

00:59:05.940 attacked

00:59:06.440 by Antifa

00:59:07.340 and had a

00:59:07.820 brain bleed as

00:59:08.620 a result of

00:59:09.120 it and kept

00:59:10.060 on reporting.

00:59:11.340 But Marshall's

00:59:12.160 praise for

00:59:12.820 Andy Ngo?

00:59:14.100 Unacceptable.

00:59:15.660 After

00:59:15.920 backlash,

00:59:17.160 Marshall had

00:59:17.520 to delete

00:59:18.040 the tweet

00:59:18.420 and apologize.

00:59:19.800 Quote,

00:59:20.780 over the past

00:59:21.400 few days,

00:59:22.300 I have come

00:59:22.880 to better

00:59:23.320 understand the

00:59:24.160 pain caused

00:59:25.400 by the book

00:59:26.400 I endorsed,

00:59:27.540 he tweeted.

00:59:28.720 He'll now,

00:59:29.220 quote,

00:59:29.340 take time away

00:59:30.120 from the band

00:59:30.820 to examine

00:59:31.680 my blind

00:59:32.360 spots.

00:59:33.120 Ugh.

00:59:33.380 Does

00:59:34.200 everyone feel

00:59:34.680 better now?

00:59:35.560 Because if

00:59:36.020 you liked

00:59:36.480 a well-researched

00:59:37.960 fact-based

00:59:38.900 book about

00:59:39.940 Antifa,

00:59:40.500 which is at

00:59:40.860 the top of

00:59:41.200 the charts

00:59:41.520 right now,

00:59:41.960 notwithstanding

00:59:42.460 some stores

00:59:43.480 attempt to

00:59:44.160 suppress it,

00:59:44.900 well,

00:59:45.260 you can't

00:59:45.720 say that.

00:59:46.720 Oh,

00:59:46.940 wait,

00:59:47.540 this is

00:59:48.100 America.

00:59:49.180 And now

00:59:49.640 back to

00:59:50.020 Jocko

00:59:50.400 right after

00:59:50.880 this.

00:59:57.700 You ran

00:59:58.500 what is

00:59:59.060 called,

00:59:59.440 I guess,

00:59:59.720 Task Unit

01:00:00.340 Bruiser,

01:00:01.080 the most

01:00:01.680 highly decorated

01:00:02.340 special ops

01:00:02.980 unit of

01:00:03.420 the Iraq

01:00:03.800 War.

01:00:04.480 And when

01:00:04.920 it says

01:00:05.240 that you

01:00:05.520 were the

01:00:05.780 commander

01:00:06.240 of that,

01:00:07.160 does that

01:00:07.560 mean you

01:00:07.860 were the

01:00:08.080 ultimate

01:00:08.300 authority,

01:00:09.120 the ultimate

01:00:09.580 person in

01:00:10.100 charge?

01:00:10.940 I was the

01:00:11.460 senior guy,

01:00:12.340 yes.

01:00:13.140 It sounds

01:00:13.800 really strong

01:00:14.440 to say I

01:00:14.880 was the

01:00:15.140 ultimate

01:00:15.440 authority,

01:00:16.620 because there's

01:00:18.940 people above

01:00:19.460 me in the

01:00:19.780 chain of

01:00:20.020 command,

01:00:20.320 obviously.

01:00:21.160 But yeah,

01:00:21.400 I was the

01:00:21.780 senior guy,

01:00:22.380 so I was

01:00:22.660 the senior

01:00:23.340 ranking guy

01:00:24.200 in Task

01:00:25.500 Unit Bruiser,

01:00:26.300 which ultimately

01:00:26.960 means if

01:00:27.380 something went

01:00:27.740 wrong,

01:00:28.540 it was on

01:00:28.960 me.

01:00:29.840 And yeah,

01:00:30.200 so we had

01:00:30.920 usually because

01:00:31.920 around 35,

01:00:35.960 sometimes a

01:00:36.400 little bit

01:00:36.600 more,

01:00:36.840 sometimes a

01:00:37.320 little bit

01:00:37.540 less,

01:00:38.000 35 or so

01:00:39.080 SEALs,

01:00:39.720 depending,

01:00:40.060 we got

01:00:40.260 augments,

01:00:40.820 some guys

01:00:41.120 would come

01:00:41.340 to help

01:00:41.600 for a little

01:00:41.840 while,

01:00:42.100 then they

01:00:42.340 leave,

01:00:42.940 some guys

01:00:43.220 get wounded,

01:00:43.780 go home,

01:00:44.680 obviously guys

01:00:45.340 got killed as

01:00:46.000 well.

01:00:47.780 So around 35

01:00:49.560 SEALs and

01:00:50.340 then another

01:00:51.240 60 or 70

01:00:52.900 people that

01:00:53.880 were in

01:00:54.600 support of

01:00:55.420 the task

01:00:55.820 unit,

01:00:56.460 and these

01:00:56.740 are all the

01:00:57.340 unsung heroes,

01:00:58.920 the people that

01:00:59.440 are keeping our

01:01:00.720 Humvees running

01:01:01.340 and keeping our

01:01:01.840 generators working

01:01:02.580 and keeping our

01:01:03.420 logistical supply

01:01:04.600 chain going so

01:01:05.580 guys have bullets

01:01:06.580 and food and

01:01:07.560 all that stuff,

01:01:08.700 and the people that

01:01:09.220 gather the

01:01:09.620 intelligence and

01:01:10.380 put together target

01:01:11.300 packages for us.

01:01:12.460 So there's a bunch

01:01:12.900 of other guys that

01:01:13.540 supported the SEALs,

01:01:16.260 but,

01:01:17.000 and that's what we

01:01:18.200 had.

01:01:18.760 The unit that you

01:01:19.660 oversaw,

01:01:20.200 the one,

01:01:20.500 this task unit

01:01:21.200 Bruiser,

01:01:22.440 seems to have had

01:01:23.440 some of the most

01:01:25.200 talented,

01:01:26.040 impressive SEALs

01:01:27.760 who fought for our

01:01:28.880 country in the

01:01:29.400 Iraq war.

01:01:30.400 You mentioned

01:01:31.020 Mark Lee.

01:01:33.300 Michael Monser

01:01:33.940 was another one.

01:01:34.680 You mentioned

01:01:34.960 Johnny Kim.

01:01:36.260 And the name that

01:01:36.840 stood out to me,

01:01:37.880 there were two of

01:01:38.580 them.

01:01:39.080 Chris Kyle,

01:01:39.820 who we now know

01:01:40.420 as the American

01:01:40.920 sniper,

01:01:41.460 he wrote his

01:01:41.860 book and said

01:01:42.840 to be the most

01:01:43.300 lethal sniper in

01:01:44.060 American history.

01:01:45.000 His wife,

01:01:45.940 Taya,

01:01:46.300 actually wound up

01:01:46.980 taking a job as

01:01:47.900 a contributor at

01:01:48.540 Fox for a short

01:01:49.580 time while I was

01:01:50.180 there.

01:01:50.740 There's another guy

01:01:51.580 I want to talk

01:01:52.080 to you about who

01:01:52.840 I know you knew

01:01:53.700 very well,

01:01:55.640 Ryan Jobe.

01:01:57.120 Before we get to

01:01:57.860 Ryan, can we

01:01:58.240 talk about

01:01:58.600 Chris?

01:01:59.060 Because I think

01:01:59.500 our audience may

01:02:00.340 know that name

01:02:01.180 from the movie

01:02:01.860 American Sniper.

01:02:02.960 And he worked

01:02:04.460 under your command.

01:02:05.640 Yeah, Chris was

01:02:06.700 the lead sniper

01:02:08.300 and the point man

01:02:09.280 for Charlie

01:02:10.120 Platoon.

01:02:10.520 So inside of

01:02:11.900 Tasking a Bruiser,

01:02:13.240 there's two

01:02:13.780 platoons,

01:02:14.900 Charlie Platoon

01:02:15.320 and Delta

01:02:15.680 Platoon.

01:02:16.380 And Charlie

01:02:16.780 Platoon, the

01:02:17.940 platoon commander

01:02:18.600 was Leif Babin,

01:02:19.840 your friend

01:02:20.620 Jenna's husband.

01:02:21.920 And then the

01:02:23.020 lead sniper and

01:02:23.860 the point man

01:02:24.500 in that platoon

01:02:25.560 was Chris Kyle.

01:02:27.400 Did you know

01:02:29.040 that this was

01:02:30.200 a special

01:02:31.260 serviceman?

01:02:32.940 Like when you

01:02:33.360 were working

01:02:33.760 with him, did

01:02:34.200 you know how

01:02:34.780 good he was?

01:02:36.280 Yeah, I mean,

01:02:37.560 there, you know,

01:02:39.020 when you said

01:02:39.360 that there's all

01:02:39.780 these incredible

01:02:40.500 guys in the,

01:02:41.660 in the, in the

01:02:42.760 task unit,

01:02:43.660 you're right.

01:02:44.800 And I will tell

01:02:46.100 you that all day

01:02:46.640 long.

01:02:47.140 The guys were

01:02:47.860 incredible.

01:02:48.660 Chris, absolutely.

01:02:49.580 And a lot of

01:02:51.460 times, if you

01:02:51.940 asked a bunch

01:02:52.720 of different

01:02:53.040 people who

01:02:54.760 in their,

01:02:55.600 whatever task

01:02:56.200 unit, whatever

01:02:56.700 platoon, whatever

01:02:57.420 troop they were

01:02:57.940 in, they're going

01:02:58.500 to tell you that

01:02:58.880 they had a bunch

01:02:59.440 of awesome guys

01:03:00.080 too.

01:03:00.840 The SEAL teams

01:03:01.360 has a bunch of

01:03:02.100 really incredible

01:03:03.280 humans in there.

01:03:04.780 Chris absolutely

01:03:05.800 was a, was a,

01:03:07.200 was an absolute

01:03:07.940 professional.

01:03:09.380 He was a front

01:03:09.880 runner and he

01:03:11.240 had a lot of

01:03:11.720 experience even

01:03:12.820 coming into

01:03:13.360 Ramadi.

01:03:13.960 He had done

01:03:14.900 the pushup.

01:03:15.720 He had fought

01:03:16.220 in Fallujah.

01:03:16.800 And so as a

01:03:18.440 sniper, he was

01:03:19.120 highly experienced

01:03:20.220 and he was

01:03:21.580 just, he was

01:03:22.720 just really

01:03:23.200 dedicated to his

01:03:24.040 job and it

01:03:25.780 made him, and

01:03:26.940 then the

01:03:27.780 environment that

01:03:29.200 we were in, the

01:03:30.580 operations that we

01:03:31.760 had the opportunity

01:03:32.440 to do were, they

01:03:35.040 were absolutely

01:03:36.260 almost custom

01:03:37.600 made to fit

01:03:38.940 Chris's skill

01:03:39.840 set.

01:03:40.540 And so it was

01:03:41.820 just, it was

01:03:42.720 just a perfect

01:03:43.320 fit, perfect fit

01:03:44.480 for him.

01:03:44.800 Ryan Jobe, I

01:03:47.720 met years

01:03:49.440 ago, I was

01:03:50.380 at a Navy

01:03:51.900 SEAL benefit.

01:03:53.900 It was

01:03:54.340 probably, I

01:03:55.180 want to say

01:03:55.520 2007.

01:03:57.600 And at this

01:03:58.580 benefit was when

01:03:59.600 my friend and

01:04:00.480 colleague Jenna

01:04:01.400 Lee met

01:04:02.200 Leif Babin.

01:04:03.160 They met that

01:04:03.860 night and now

01:04:04.780 they're happily

01:04:05.100 married with

01:04:05.480 three kids.

01:04:06.960 And one of

01:04:08.000 the other guys

01:04:08.600 I met that

01:04:09.220 night was

01:04:10.240 Ryan Jobe.

01:04:11.960 And I never

01:04:13.280 forgot him.

01:04:14.080 He's somebody

01:04:15.020 I've talked

01:04:15.620 about many,

01:04:16.840 many times

01:04:17.500 because by

01:04:18.520 this point

01:04:18.840 he'd been

01:04:19.220 injured.

01:04:20.460 He, his

01:04:21.660 weapon was

01:04:23.040 hit by

01:04:23.940 artillery from

01:04:24.760 the enemy

01:04:25.340 and it

01:04:25.820 blinded him.

01:04:26.640 It shot, as

01:04:27.620 I understand it,

01:04:28.140 one eye out

01:04:28.900 and permanently

01:04:29.760 damaged the

01:04:30.260 optic nerve

01:04:30.780 and the

01:04:30.980 other eye.

01:04:31.780 So he was

01:04:32.480 blind.

01:04:32.900 and he had

01:04:36.300 the most

01:04:36.880 positive,

01:04:37.960 infectious,

01:04:39.720 lovable,

01:04:41.080 laughing,

01:04:42.060 joyful

01:04:42.500 personality

01:04:43.600 that night.

01:04:45.280 I gravitated

01:04:47.200 toward him.

01:04:47.820 So did

01:04:48.120 everyone in

01:04:48.580 the room.

01:04:49.740 He was

01:04:50.000 totally

01:04:50.440 generous with

01:04:51.520 his personality,

01:04:52.540 with his

01:04:52.780 story, with

01:04:53.520 his storytelling,

01:04:54.620 with his time.

01:04:56.180 And he

01:04:57.360 was the one

01:04:57.680 who told me

01:04:58.260 that seals

01:04:59.840 have a thing

01:05:01.400 they say,

01:05:02.680 which is,

01:05:03.760 say I can't.

01:05:05.180 And of course,

01:05:05.860 it means as soon

01:05:06.700 as you tell

01:05:07.020 them they can't,

01:05:08.120 they will.

01:05:09.220 And he was

01:05:09.900 living it,

01:05:10.860 right?

01:05:11.040 At that point,

01:05:11.480 I mean, he was

01:05:11.920 just living it

01:05:12.760 because after his

01:05:13.880 injuries, he went

01:05:14.600 on to accomplish

01:05:15.460 incredible things.

01:05:16.880 He climbed

01:05:17.880 Mount Rainier,

01:05:18.620 like in

01:05:19.340 Washington State,

01:05:20.100 as a blind

01:05:21.360 man.

01:05:23.200 And so all

01:05:24.320 these years I've

01:05:24.840 been talking

01:05:25.220 about this guy

01:05:25.880 because he

01:05:26.140 made such an

01:05:26.660 impression on

01:05:27.200 me, and

01:05:28.040 Jocko, I

01:05:29.120 was so sad

01:05:31.020 and shocked

01:05:31.780 to find out

01:05:33.220 he died.

01:05:35.020 I didn't

01:05:35.940 know that.

01:05:36.680 That, I

01:05:37.420 missed that

01:05:38.180 news, and it

01:05:39.020 happened only a

01:05:39.760 couple of years

01:05:40.560 after I met

01:05:41.860 him, and it

01:05:43.840 happened in a

01:05:44.460 hospital as they

01:05:45.740 were performing

01:05:46.740 I think his

01:05:47.240 22nd surgery.

01:05:49.520 Anyway, when I

01:05:50.160 saw it, I

01:05:51.040 texted Jenna

01:05:52.560 immediately, like,

01:05:53.440 oh my God, I

01:05:54.180 didn't know, and

01:05:55.200 we were talking

01:05:56.380 about it, and I

01:05:56.980 found out that

01:05:57.780 they named their

01:05:58.360 third child after

01:05:59.380 him, after

01:06:01.160 Ryan, and I

01:06:03.040 just wanted to

01:06:03.560 ask you about

01:06:04.100 this guy because

01:06:05.100 to me, he was

01:06:07.300 just the

01:06:08.140 embodiment of

01:06:09.360 grit, and

01:06:11.880 he's what I

01:06:13.800 think of when I

01:06:14.440 feel American

01:06:15.040 patriotism.

01:06:15.720 that guy, just

01:06:17.860 devastated to

01:06:18.820 learn we lost

01:06:19.480 him so long

01:06:20.880 ago, and I'm

01:06:21.580 sure it must

01:06:23.240 have been so

01:06:24.100 hard for you.

01:06:25.580 Yeah, well, the

01:06:26.100 impact that

01:06:26.860 Ryan made on

01:06:29.080 you, the impact

01:06:29.860 that Chris made

01:06:30.420 on the world, the

01:06:31.200 impact that

01:06:31.880 Mikey

01:06:32.800 Monsoor, that

01:06:34.240 impression that

01:06:36.300 Ryan left you,

01:06:38.480 you know, that

01:06:38.900 you were with

01:06:39.360 him for, I

01:06:40.080 don't know, a

01:06:40.560 few hours at

01:06:41.340 an event, and

01:06:42.360 and you saw

01:06:43.680 the, just

01:06:45.200 what an

01:06:45.900 incredible person

01:06:46.700 he was, and

01:06:48.480 yeah, he was

01:06:49.240 actually shot in

01:06:50.220 the face, it

01:06:51.180 was some, some

01:06:53.000 maybe an enemy

01:06:54.320 sniper shot

01:06:55.940 his, and it

01:06:56.600 luckily hit his

01:06:57.740 weapon, and

01:06:59.100 before it entered

01:06:59.880 his face, so that

01:07:00.660 slowed down, he

01:07:01.600 kind of got hit

01:07:02.160 from pieces of

01:07:03.120 fragmentation from

01:07:04.400 his weapon and

01:07:05.340 chunks of bullet and

01:07:06.600 whatever else, and

01:07:07.540 it was a really

01:07:08.960 grievous wound, and

01:07:12.020 yeah, it was, is

01:07:14.320 his attitude, if,

01:07:17.200 you know, his

01:07:17.580 attitude was when

01:07:19.500 he was in a

01:07:20.140 medically induced

01:07:21.280 coma for a while,

01:07:22.420 and that was the

01:07:24.760 same day that, that

01:07:25.580 Mark Lee was

01:07:26.120 killed, and I

01:07:27.780 probably, I don't

01:07:30.300 know how long it

01:07:31.060 was after he got

01:07:32.120 out of his

01:07:32.880 medically induced

01:07:33.600 coma, and we

01:07:34.680 could finally talk

01:07:35.500 to him, he's back

01:07:36.160 in America, and

01:07:37.540 what he was

01:07:39.240 telling me, what

01:07:40.980 he was asking me

01:07:42.060 was, he was

01:07:43.960 saying, he was

01:07:44.780 saying, sir, can I

01:07:45.560 please come back?

01:07:47.100 Can I please come

01:07:47.840 back?

01:07:48.440 He wanted to come

01:07:49.240 back and be with

01:07:50.380 the task unit, he

01:07:51.120 wanted to come back

01:07:51.740 and be with his

01:07:52.280 brothers, despite

01:07:53.500 the fact that he

01:07:54.400 had been so

01:07:55.180 horribly wounded,

01:07:56.920 despite the fact

01:07:58.260 that he couldn't

01:07:58.800 see, he actually, as

01:08:00.260 you know, he was a

01:08:00.880 very funny guy, too,

01:08:02.260 he said, if you

01:08:02.920 give me my weapon,

01:08:03.800 sir, don't worry, I

01:08:04.880 can smell the bad

01:08:05.980 guys, I can smell

01:08:06.800 them, I'll know

01:08:07.280 where they are, and

01:08:08.680 that was his

01:08:09.500 attitude, he

01:08:10.180 wasn't going to

01:08:10.620 stop, and he

01:08:11.780 wasn't going to

01:08:12.200 quit, and he

01:08:12.920 wanted to be with

01:08:13.940 his brothers, and

01:08:15.260 so, yeah, when he

01:08:17.520 died, it was just a

01:08:20.660 crushing blow, because

01:08:22.660 we had been home for

01:08:24.020 a few years, and we

01:08:27.920 had lost Mikey, we

01:08:29.640 had lost Mark, and

01:08:30.620 that was horrible, but

01:08:33.660 we thought we were

01:08:34.240 home, you know, we

01:08:35.280 thought we were

01:08:35.640 home, and then we

01:08:37.500 lose, and then we

01:08:38.820 lose Ryan, and then

01:08:40.760 as you mentioned,

01:08:42.160 after that, again,

01:08:44.860 now we think, well,

01:08:45.740 nothing worse than

01:08:47.460 this can happen, and

01:08:49.160 then Chris was

01:08:51.380 murdered, and just

01:08:53.140 another horrible,

01:08:55.020 just another horrible,

01:08:57.140 shocking, and life-altering

01:09:02.020 event, you know, to

01:09:04.340 have Chris killed

01:09:06.900 like that, and, you

01:09:09.260 know, his wife is

01:09:10.460 just so strong, and

01:09:12.700 what she's been

01:09:14.340 through, and the way

01:09:15.520 she carries herself is

01:09:16.660 just heroic, so a

01:09:20.840 good example for all

01:09:22.200 of us, and, you know,

01:09:24.420 and then there's

01:09:25.940 there's actually, in

01:09:28.200 2017, you know, again,

01:09:30.100 thinking that we were

01:09:30.880 through it, the Delta

01:09:33.280 platoon commander, who

01:09:35.360 was a very dear friends

01:09:37.240 of mine, and Leif, and

01:09:38.900 the rest of the guys in

01:09:39.620 the task unit, he was

01:09:40.920 killed in a parachute

01:09:41.860 accident, and that's

01:09:44.060 the last guy that we've

01:09:45.760 lost from tasking a

01:09:46.800 bruiser, even though it's

01:09:48.200 many, well, it was 11

01:09:49.840 years after we came home,

01:09:51.120 and still never, never

01:09:55.500 going to be, never

01:09:56.820 going to forget those

01:09:57.500 guys, they were just

01:09:59.440 all incredible, incredible

01:10:01.240 people, and it was an

01:10:03.140 honor to be able to

01:10:04.020 serve with them, an

01:10:04.740 honor to be able to

01:10:05.380 know them, an honor to

01:10:06.580 say that I was friends

01:10:07.660 with them, and I won't

01:10:09.360 forget them all, ever.

01:10:12.340 God bless them, and all

01:10:14.700 of you guys, we forget

01:10:17.240 too often we go on with

01:10:18.580 our lives over here, and

01:10:19.540 we forget about the

01:10:20.320 sacrifice that's been

01:10:21.240 made so that we can

01:10:22.600 live them the way we

01:10:23.760 do.

01:10:24.660 It's important to be

01:10:25.980 reminded of these

01:10:26.700 stories so we understand

01:10:28.880 the sacrifices that have

01:10:29.860 been made.

01:10:31.320 That, I've listened to

01:10:33.100 Leif, I saw, I saw the

01:10:36.240 two of you guys talking

01:10:37.160 about this, and he was

01:10:40.100 saying that after Ryan

01:10:42.160 got hit in the face with

01:10:44.380 this enemy sniper round,

01:10:47.260 Leif was saying he looked

01:10:48.040 horrific, and he went over

01:10:49.400 to grab Ryan, and Ryan

01:10:50.820 sat up and said he was

01:10:52.840 okay.

01:10:53.420 He sat up, even though he

01:10:54.460 had just been shot in the

01:10:55.380 face, sat up so that he

01:10:56.560 wouldn't choke, said he was

01:10:58.720 just incredibly tough.

01:11:00.820 And, you know, as you

01:11:02.720 point out, shortly after he

01:11:04.300 began to be able to speak

01:11:06.180 again, he was cracking

01:11:07.840 jokes.

01:11:08.640 Leif was saying he was

01:11:09.360 going to get a parrot for

01:11:10.920 his shoulder, and then he's

01:11:13.240 asking, he's telling you I

01:11:14.140 can smell the enemy, I'll

01:11:15.080 find a way, you know, I'll

01:11:16.180 find a way.

01:11:16.820 Can I come back?

01:11:18.760 And I just think, it's such

01:11:20.860 a bullshit price to pay,

01:11:22.380 you know, it's like, what I

01:11:23.440 read was that, because the

01:11:25.220 hospital paid his widow, I

01:11:26.660 think what I read was four

01:11:27.600 million dollars.

01:11:28.280 They admitted that they had

01:11:29.500 been negligent.

01:11:30.280 It was, what I read was it

01:11:31.980 was an accidental overdose

01:11:34.180 that they gave him of

01:11:35.280 painkillers.

01:11:37.400 But it just seems so damn

01:11:38.840 senseless, you know, and

01:11:40.020 it's like, when you talk

01:11:41.240 about how you get past

01:11:42.160 loss, you know what you

01:11:44.240 speak.

01:11:45.420 Yeah, it was just, like

01:11:47.940 you said, it's completely

01:11:49.620 tragic.

01:11:51.000 And, you know, it's, it

01:11:53.860 makes us, reminds us how

01:11:56.120 precious life is.

01:11:57.440 And you need to, you need

01:11:59.540 to absolutely live a life

01:12:02.760 that, that these guys that

01:12:04.520 are looking down on us are

01:12:06.240 nodding their head and

01:12:07.040 saying, that's, that's

01:12:07.820 right, keep going.

01:12:09.380 Yeah, they don't want

01:12:10.240 anybody wallowing.

01:12:11.620 You know, one of the other

01:12:12.480 guys I met that night, and

01:12:14.240 I don't know if you know

01:12:15.540 him.

01:12:15.780 I don't, I don't think he

01:12:16.800 was in your, in task unit

01:12:18.440 bruiser.

01:12:19.360 Jason Redman.

01:12:20.700 Do you know that name?

01:12:22.280 Yeah, I do.

01:12:23.500 You know Jason.

01:12:24.400 Okay.

01:12:25.120 I know he was actually

01:12:26.420 inspired to go climb Mount

01:12:28.320 Rainier because of what

01:12:29.880 Ryan, because Ryan did it.

01:12:31.420 But he too had a

01:12:33.740 catastrophic injury to his

01:12:35.080 face.

01:12:36.140 And he's the other guy I

01:12:37.360 remember from that night.

01:12:38.260 And, but trust me, my

01:12:39.200 audience knows my, my

01:12:40.300 memory's not that good, but

01:12:41.680 I remember these guys

01:12:42.520 well, because he told me

01:12:44.800 about his recovery and

01:12:47.060 how he posted a sign on

01:12:48.740 his door that basically

01:12:50.520 said, don't come in here

01:12:51.940 and feel sorry for me.

01:12:53.120 I would go and do it all

01:12:54.500 over again.

01:12:56.020 And I remembered that

01:12:58.260 story.

01:12:58.720 And actually I just did, I

01:12:59.800 Googled it right before

01:13:00.840 you came on and I found

01:13:02.900 out like the sign became a

01:13:05.000 thing.

01:13:05.340 Like it's in, it's in a

01:13:06.980 military museum as

01:13:09.000 something that's like

01:13:09.640 celebrated as sort of an

01:13:11.360 example of, of the

01:13:12.840 mentality.

01:13:13.300 And I just, I just want

01:13:14.220 to read the note.

01:13:14.940 So people understand

01:13:16.120 this guy, it reads as

01:13:17.820 follows attention to all

01:13:19.680 who enter here.

01:13:21.500 If you are coming into

01:13:22.220 this room with sorrow or

01:13:23.900 to feel sorry for my

01:13:25.020 wounds, go elsewhere.

01:13:26.940 The wounds I received, I

01:13:28.980 got in a job.

01:13:29.880 I love doing it for

01:13:31.540 people.

01:13:31.840 I love supporting the

01:13:33.480 freedom of a country.

01:13:34.540 I deeply love.

01:13:36.280 I am incredibly tough and

01:13:37.840 will make a full

01:13:38.400 recovery.

01:13:39.560 What is full?

01:13:40.460 That is the absolute

01:13:41.740 utmost physically.

01:13:43.200 My body has the ability

01:13:44.360 to recover.

01:13:45.560 Then I will push that

01:13:46.860 about 20% further through

01:13:49.000 sheer mental tenacity.

01:13:50.920 This room you are about

01:13:52.160 to enter is a room of

01:13:53.660 fun, optimism, and

01:13:55.780 intense, rapid

01:13:56.780 regrowth.

01:13:57.700 If you are not prepared

01:13:59.060 for that, go elsewhere

01:14:01.760 from the management.

01:14:05.040 I love that, Jocko.

01:14:07.360 I love that.

01:14:09.200 That's the attitude,

01:14:10.460 right?

01:14:10.680 That's the thing that

01:14:12.580 makes you fall in love

01:14:13.420 with these guys.

01:14:14.520 100%.

01:14:15.080 That's just a, it's

01:14:17.040 such an awesome

01:14:18.460 statement by Jason

01:14:19.920 Redman.

01:14:21.320 This is a guy that

01:14:22.540 had massive, massive

01:14:24.740 damage to his face and

01:14:26.240 his arm.

01:14:27.340 He was going through

01:14:27.980 surgery after surgery

01:14:29.240 after surgery.

01:14:32.200 Well, you heard it.

01:14:33.700 He didn't feel sorry for

01:14:35.260 himself.

01:14:35.860 He didn't want anyone

01:14:36.540 else to feel sorry for

01:14:37.500 him.

01:14:37.980 He was going to do

01:14:38.740 everything he could

01:14:40.120 with what he had left

01:14:41.680 and that's what he's

01:14:43.560 doing today.

01:14:44.800 Wow.

01:14:45.580 This is to your earlier

01:14:46.820 point.

01:14:48.000 These are the stories

01:14:48.840 people need to hear.

01:14:50.120 People who think

01:14:50.980 words are violence.

01:14:53.160 People who think

01:14:53.880 they've been victimized

01:14:56.000 by some TV commercial.

01:14:57.600 There are real heroes

01:15:00.780 in this world who

01:15:01.520 have really gotten

01:15:02.440 hurt and sacrificed

01:15:03.260 and found a way to

01:15:04.320 stay optimism about

01:15:05.360 our country, about

01:15:06.440 themselves, about

01:15:08.260 their fellow Americans.

01:15:10.360 There's a way of

01:15:11.320 doing it.

01:15:11.920 It's not to diminish

01:15:12.840 hurt or pain, but

01:15:15.680 there's a way of

01:15:16.420 doing it.

01:15:17.000 And we have real

01:15:17.860 life examples

01:15:18.680 everywhere, right?

01:15:20.640 If you're just open

01:15:21.220 minded to them.

01:15:21.800 And that's in a way

01:15:22.720 one of the gifts you've

01:15:23.540 been given, Jaco, is

01:15:24.800 like having a life

01:15:26.100 immersed in this

01:15:28.920 kind of person.

01:15:30.700 Yeah.

01:15:30.940 And it's great.

01:15:32.400 We can look at the

01:15:32.980 military and find all

01:15:34.120 kinds of heroes for

01:15:35.080 sure.

01:15:35.780 For the entire

01:15:38.060 history of this

01:15:39.120 country, there's hero

01:15:40.120 after hero that has

01:15:41.380 stepped up and made

01:15:42.060 incredible sacrifices.

01:15:43.300 And then you look at

01:15:44.620 everyday people, whether

01:15:46.140 it's a single mom

01:15:47.020 that's out there

01:15:47.580 working two or three

01:15:48.360 different jobs to

01:15:49.340 feed her kids and

01:15:50.660 coming home with the

01:15:51.720 screaming kids and all

01:15:52.820 that stuff, or

01:15:53.660 whether it's, you

01:15:54.820 know, the, the

01:15:55.400 frontline police

01:15:56.760 officers that are

01:15:57.380 out there taking

01:15:58.540 risk every single

01:15:59.240 day, firefighters,

01:16:00.540 EMTs, the, the, the

01:16:02.580 heroes of the, of

01:16:03.640 the medical community,

01:16:04.960 the first responders.

01:16:06.020 There's so many

01:16:06.800 people that do so

01:16:08.000 much and face such

01:16:09.540 tough, challenging

01:16:11.100 events every single

01:16:14.040 day.

01:16:14.400 I was talking to a

01:16:15.540 friend of mine who's,

01:16:16.920 who's, um, uh, EMT

01:16:19.100 firefighter, and he's,

01:16:21.640 he had done two, two

01:16:23.120 cases that day and

01:16:24.460 he had done CPR on

01:16:26.420 two people, saved

01:16:27.560 one, lost one.

01:16:29.620 And you just think

01:16:30.880 that's, that's daily

01:16:31.640 occurrence, daily

01:16:32.640 occurrence.

01:16:33.760 So all kinds of

01:16:35.660 heroes out there, all

01:16:36.700 kinds of people that

01:16:37.340 face some really tough

01:16:38.260 things on a daily

01:16:39.680 basis.

01:16:40.920 And it definitely

01:16:43.520 keeps me humble and,

01:16:45.460 and makes, makes me

01:16:47.100 make sure that I'm not

01:16:48.580 complaining about

01:16:49.200 anything.

01:16:50.920 Since you've gotten

01:16:51.800 back stateside, you've,

01:16:53.660 you've sort of made a

01:16:55.120 career out of

01:16:55.800 leadership.

01:16:56.600 You and Leif, uh,

01:16:57.720 co-founded a group

01:16:58.480 called the Echelon

01:16:59.220 Front, which is a

01:17:00.180 leadership consulting

01:17:00.920 company, Premier.

01:17:02.580 And it teaches some of

01:17:03.620 these leadership

01:17:04.040 principles to others.

01:17:05.520 And we need that,

01:17:06.740 right?

01:17:06.920 It's like some people

01:17:07.640 are born leaders.

01:17:08.520 I think so.

01:17:08.920 They come by these

01:17:09.700 traits naturally and

01:17:11.460 most people have to

01:17:12.740 learn it or at least

01:17:13.480 need to learn something

01:17:14.180 to get better at it.

01:17:15.180 In looking at sort of

01:17:16.880 the, the things you

01:17:18.880 say that make a good

01:17:20.040 leader, uh, one of the

01:17:22.540 things is extreme

01:17:24.100 ownership.

01:17:24.680 You gave a great Ted

01:17:25.360 talk, TEDx, extreme

01:17:27.340 ownership, uh, on this

01:17:29.220 mindset of not making

01:17:30.280 excuses, not, not

01:17:31.860 blaming others when

01:17:33.020 problems occur.

01:17:33.860 I, my own life, it's

01:17:35.240 manifested as winners

01:17:36.480 take responsibility,

01:17:37.800 losers blame others.

01:17:39.660 And can you just talk a

01:17:41.540 bit about that?

01:17:43.380 But the episode, I

01:17:44.520 think it was in

01:17:45.060 Ramadi that really

01:17:46.280 brought that home for

01:17:47.280 you where you had to

01:17:47.960 live it and it wasn't

01:17:49.400 necessarily the easiest

01:17:50.440 experience, but you did

01:17:51.680 live it.

01:17:52.700 Yeah.

01:17:52.920 That's, uh, we, one of

01:17:54.640 the earliest operations

01:17:55.600 that we did in the

01:17:57.300 battle of Ramadi, we

01:17:58.440 had, uh, a blue on

01:18:00.200 blue or what's commonly

01:18:01.360 referred to in the

01:18:02.160 civilian world as a

01:18:02.920 friendly fire incident.

01:18:04.020 And it was actually a

01:18:05.960 firefight between some

01:18:07.880 of my seals and an

01:18:10.100 Iraqi, a friendly Iraqi

01:18:11.880 army unit.

01:18:12.640 So there's friendly

01:18:13.700 Iraqis that are on our

01:18:14.800 side and some of my

01:18:16.760 guys, there was

01:18:17.260 confusion out on the

01:18:18.020 battlefield.

01:18:18.360 There was mayhem.

01:18:19.320 There was the fog of

01:18:20.680 war, all those things.

01:18:22.280 And some of my guys

01:18:24.040 ended up in a

01:18:24.860 firefight with friendly

01:18:26.000 Iraqi soldiers who had

01:18:27.180 a U S Marine with

01:18:28.240 them and is a nightmare.

01:18:31.100 One of the Iraqi

01:18:31.940 soldiers got killed.

01:18:33.340 A couple other ones

01:18:34.480 got wounded.

01:18:35.200 One of my guys got

01:18:36.140 wounded and it was

01:18:37.300 only by the grace of

01:18:38.040 God that, that none of

01:18:40.120 my guys were killed.

01:18:40.980 It was just an absolute

01:18:41.800 nightmare.

01:18:42.280 And look, being in

01:18:44.240 combat and taking

01:18:45.140 casualties from the

01:18:46.080 enemy is horrible.

01:18:47.440 You can only imagine

01:18:48.800 how much horrible it is

01:18:50.360 when it's friendly fire.

01:18:52.800 It's your own people

01:18:53.900 that you're getting

01:18:54.980 wounded by or that

01:18:55.900 you're wounding or that

01:18:56.980 you're getting killed by

01:18:57.880 or that you're killing.

01:18:58.740 It's a, it's an

01:18:59.460 absolute nightmare.

01:19:00.040 And after this happened,

01:19:02.060 there was, you know, there

01:19:05.300 was a big uproar because

01:19:07.180 this shouldn't happen.

01:19:08.400 You shouldn't have these

01:19:09.200 things that they do take

01:19:10.260 place, but it's, it's, it's,

01:19:11.780 it should not happen.

01:19:13.080 And it happened.

01:19:14.060 So my commanding officer

01:19:15.840 basically shut down, shut

01:19:18.800 down to asking a bruiser

01:19:19.960 and said, I'm going to come

01:19:21.040 out.

01:19:21.300 I want to debrief.

01:19:21.960 I want to find out what

01:19:22.660 happened.

01:19:24.040 And really in that it's,

01:19:26.600 it's who's going to get

01:19:27.560 fired because this is a

01:19:30.340 terrible situation.

01:19:31.160 Someone needs to, someone

01:19:32.520 needs to be held

01:19:33.360 accountable.

01:19:34.760 And so he said, told me to

01:19:36.520 prepare a briefing to him.

01:19:38.840 So I started preparing this

01:19:40.060 briefing.

01:19:41.180 And as I'm preparing this

01:19:42.220 briefing, I'm trying to figure

01:19:43.000 out who I should blame for

01:19:44.540 this happening.

01:19:45.220 Should I blame the radio

01:19:46.900 man?

01:19:47.220 Should I blame one of the

01:19:48.220 assistant toon commanders

01:19:49.040 that out there?

01:19:49.780 Should I blame one of the

01:19:51.000 NCOs?

01:19:52.040 One of my, one of my

01:19:52.900 non-commissioned officers,

01:19:54.140 who should I blame for

01:19:55.840 this happening?

01:19:57.540 And it was probably 10

01:20:00.240 minutes.

01:20:00.660 He had flown out.

01:20:01.840 So it took him a day to get

01:20:02.560 out there.

01:20:03.600 And it's probably 10

01:20:05.000 minutes before I walked

01:20:07.420 in to debrief him.

01:20:08.540 And I, I just couldn't, I,

01:20:11.160 I couldn't put my finger.

01:20:13.160 I couldn't feel comfortable

01:20:14.180 picking the person to blame.

01:20:17.380 And I just was trying to

01:20:18.520 figure, is it this guy?

01:20:19.280 Should I blame this guy?

01:20:19.940 Should I blame this other

01:20:20.460 guy?

01:20:20.860 And as I'm sitting there, I

01:20:22.980 realized like a bolt of

01:20:24.080 lightning hit me that the

01:20:26.160 reason I couldn't figure out

01:20:28.460 who to blame was because

01:20:30.020 there was only one person to

01:20:31.040 blame.

01:20:31.940 And that person was me.

01:20:33.260 I'm, I'm the overall guy in

01:20:34.680 charge.

01:20:35.080 I'm responsible for what

01:20:36.200 happens.

01:20:36.680 Whatever happens is on me.

01:20:40.260 And so I went in there and,

01:20:41.640 and, and took ownership of

01:20:43.540 the entire incident.

01:20:45.300 And, and, you know, this is

01:20:47.820 not the first time that I

01:20:49.060 ever had this idea.

01:20:50.060 This is how I was brought up

01:20:51.460 in the SEAL teams.

01:20:52.100 And, and really, this is how

01:20:53.360 I was brought up as a, as a

01:20:54.440 human.

01:20:54.920 When something goes wrong,

01:20:56.160 you don't blame other

01:20:56.960 people.

01:20:57.280 You take ownership.

01:20:58.020 The reason that it, the

01:20:59.520 reason that we, when Latham

01:21:00.760 and I wrote this book, we

01:21:01.620 made this the first chapters

01:21:02.800 because this is the most

01:21:03.680 extreme situation I'd ever

01:21:05.680 been in.

01:21:06.360 Someone was dead, guys were

01:21:07.880 wounded, and I had to take

01:21:11.080 ownership of it.

01:21:11.880 And, and the part that you

01:21:13.000 said about it being hard to

01:21:13.960 take ownership.

01:21:14.600 Yeah.

01:21:15.000 It's very hard.

01:21:15.920 It's things.

01:21:16.660 It hurts.

01:21:17.540 It hurts your ego.

01:21:18.600 It makes you feel like you are

01:21:20.880 to blame for everything.

01:21:21.840 And guess what?

01:21:22.520 You are.

01:21:23.480 That's the point.

01:21:24.600 And it's hard, but that's what

01:21:26.640 I did.

01:21:27.040 I stepped up, I took

01:21:27.940 ownership.

01:21:28.460 And, you know, when I did

01:21:29.880 that, first of all, the guys

01:21:32.800 in the platoon, and this is,

01:21:33.940 you know, Leif and Seth and

01:21:35.800 the rest of the guys debriefing

01:21:36.800 me.

01:21:36.960 When I said, Hey, this is my

01:21:37.820 fault.

01:21:38.400 They're, they, their level of

01:21:40.660 respect for me went up because

01:21:41.580 I wasn't pointing my finger at

01:21:42.620 anyone and saying it was their

01:21:43.760 fault.

01:21:44.080 And even my commanding officer,

01:21:45.640 he realized that if I was going

01:21:48.320 to take ownership of the

01:21:49.020 problems, I would get the

01:21:49.660 problems fixed and they

01:21:50.360 wouldn't happen again.

01:21:51.660 And so this attitude is just a

01:21:54.380 very powerful thing.

01:21:55.460 And sometimes people think it's

01:21:56.480 going to be a big burden.

01:21:57.240 And like I said, it is a

01:21:58.540 burden on your ego, but also

01:22:01.400 it's liberating because if you

01:22:03.780 take ownership of the

01:22:04.520 problems that you have the

01:22:06.180 capability to solve those

01:22:07.800 problems.

01:22:08.680 So it applies not just to the

01:22:10.240 battlefield.

01:22:10.760 It applies not just to

01:22:11.520 business.

01:22:11.820 It applies to life.

01:22:13.080 And if there's something

01:22:13.780 that's not going the way you

01:22:14.780 want it to go and all you do

01:22:16.460 is point your finger at your

01:22:17.300 boss or your spouse or your

01:22:18.620 kids or someone you work

01:22:19.980 with, well, then you don't

01:22:21.220 change anything because it's

01:22:22.320 out of your power.

01:22:23.220 But if you say, you know

01:22:24.080 what, I'm going to take

01:22:24.700 ownership of this and I'm

01:22:25.420 going to get it solved.

01:22:26.120 Now you have control and now

01:22:27.680 you can now you can actually

01:22:28.720 get problem solved.

01:22:31.700 I think some people don't

01:22:33.100 don't take ownership because

01:22:34.320 they're afraid it might not be

01:22:35.900 their only mistake, you know,

01:22:38.000 and they if you take

01:22:39.680 ownership of this one, what

01:22:41.180 happens when the next big

01:22:42.140 mistake comes along?

01:22:42.980 You take ownership of that

01:22:43.760 one and then the third and

01:22:45.380 then before you know it, you're

01:22:46.660 fired.

01:22:47.460 Yeah.

01:22:47.720 Well, you very well might get

01:22:48.780 fired.

01:22:49.020 And when people present me

01:22:51.360 with that, with that situation,

01:22:53.800 you know, I always say, well,

01:22:55.840 let's say, let's say, let's say

01:22:58.420 Megan and I are working for

01:22:59.320 the boss and we both fail at

01:23:02.000 whatever project was due.

01:23:03.720 And I come in and the boss is

01:23:06.260 what happened, Jocko?

01:23:06.940 And I said, well, you know, we

01:23:08.160 failed the project because we

01:23:10.120 didn't get the supplies in time.

01:23:11.280 We had bad weather and the

01:23:13.440 contractors didn't do what they

01:23:14.540 were supposed to do.

01:23:15.640 And so that's why we failed.

01:23:17.180 And he says, OK, get out of

01:23:18.560 here.

01:23:18.900 And then Megan comes in and

01:23:21.080 and the boss says, OK, Megan,

01:23:22.480 why'd you fail that project?

01:23:23.920 And Megan says, well, we failed

01:23:25.160 the project because I didn't

01:23:27.500 order the supplies early

01:23:28.820 enough.

01:23:29.040 So the supplies didn't show up

01:23:30.280 on time.

01:23:31.460 I actually didn't track what the

01:23:33.020 contractors were doing closely

01:23:34.260 enough.

01:23:34.560 And so they were off schedule

01:23:35.980 and that that set us back.

01:23:37.640 And finally, I didn't account

01:23:39.660 for the possibility that there

01:23:40.760 might be bad weather.

01:23:41.980 When I do this next time, I'm

01:23:42.900 going to make sure I get some

01:23:44.000 time scheduled in there.

01:23:45.120 In case we get some bad

01:23:45.980 weather days, I'll be able to

01:23:46.920 make up that time.

01:23:47.920 So those are the problems.

01:23:49.360 That's why we failed.

01:23:50.500 It's my fault.

01:23:51.360 And I'll get it fixed next

01:23:52.300 time.

01:23:52.960 So so who who do you want to

01:23:54.420 give the next project?

01:23:55.480 Who's the boss going to give

01:23:56.420 the next project to?

01:23:57.640 Is the boss going to give it

01:23:58.580 to me who made a bunch of

01:23:59.600 excuses and pointed my finger

01:24:00.760 to a bunch of other people?

01:24:01.960 Or they or is the boss going

01:24:02.920 to give the project the next

01:24:04.300 project to Megan, who

01:24:05.540 actually took ownership and

01:24:07.160 is actually going to get

01:24:07.760 those problems solved?

01:24:09.120 So when you look at it from

01:24:10.480 that perspective, even though

01:24:11.340 you might be scared to walk

01:24:12.380 into that office ready to

01:24:13.300 take the blame, when you

01:24:14.840 actually do it and you

01:24:16.080 actually think about how

01:24:17.320 it's perceived, by the way,

01:24:19.200 up and down the chain of

01:24:20.180 command, up and down the

01:24:21.680 chain of command, because

01:24:22.120 the contractors that I

01:24:23.000 blamed, they don't want to

01:24:24.280 work with me anymore.

01:24:25.280 They're not going to put

01:24:25.920 extra effort to to to

01:24:28.240 cover for me.

01:24:29.820 But the contractors that

01:24:31.060 work for you that you said,

01:24:32.520 hey, look, we're late.

01:24:33.380 It's my fault.

01:24:34.020 I should have I should have

01:24:34.840 given you guys a tighter

01:24:35.560 timeline.

01:24:35.980 I should have I should have

01:24:36.980 made sure you were tracking.

01:24:37.860 They actually want to do a

01:24:38.700 good job for you.

01:24:39.400 So up and down the chain of

01:24:41.360 command, taking ownership is

01:24:42.880 the way to go.

01:24:44.320 Yeah.

01:24:45.000 Yeah.

01:24:45.320 This is this reminds me of an

01:24:47.380 experience I had at Fox News

01:24:48.520 very early in my career.

01:24:49.860 I was a first year reporter

01:24:51.540 there.

01:24:52.040 Very green.

01:24:53.400 And I had a package airing on

01:24:55.920 Brit Hume show special report

01:24:57.300 that night.

01:24:58.040 It's one of my first packages

01:24:59.240 where it's like a pre-taped

01:25:00.320 piece.

01:25:01.300 You know, you spend the whole

01:25:02.060 day working on it, getting

01:25:03.120 interviews.

01:25:03.540 Then you write a script and you

01:25:05.140 track the script.

01:25:05.840 Then you go into the edit bay

01:25:07.520 and work with the editor to get

01:25:08.700 it just right.

01:25:09.300 And then it airs.

01:25:10.160 And there's always time

01:25:10.900 pressure.

01:25:11.860 And it aired that night.

01:25:13.800 And there was a mistake in the

01:25:14.880 piece.

01:25:15.240 There was it was a soundbite

01:25:16.380 that shouldn't have been in

01:25:17.020 there.

01:25:17.340 And it was obvious when it

01:25:18.640 aired and I should have

01:25:19.700 caught it.

01:25:20.380 And so Kim Hume, who is

01:25:21.560 Brit's wife and our managing

01:25:23.080 editor, she was our bureau

01:25:24.500 chief, came over to me after

01:25:25.980 the fact and said, how could

01:25:28.360 it have been prevented?

01:25:29.460 And I said, I told the

01:25:31.480 editor to take it out and he

01:25:32.980 should have taken it out.

01:25:33.960 And she said, not him, you.

01:25:37.740 What could you have done to

01:25:39.780 prevent it?

01:25:40.740 And honestly, it's just like a

01:25:42.220 sea change for me in that

01:25:43.120 moment.

01:25:43.600 I ever since then, that's my

01:25:45.520 first question.

01:25:46.400 Not him, you.

01:25:47.860 What could you have done to

01:25:48.840 prevent it?

01:25:49.240 And she was 100 percent right.

01:25:50.520 I could have budgeted my time

01:25:52.100 better.

01:25:52.400 I could have make sure I sat in

01:25:53.860 that edit bay for the entire

01:25:54.780 process.

01:25:55.280 I could have made time to

01:25:57.180 review the piece prior to it

01:25:58.840 hitting air so I could be

01:26:00.560 assured that all the sound

01:26:02.180 bites would be appropriate in

01:26:03.600 one wouldn't be in there that

01:26:04.700 shouldn't be.

01:26:05.780 And, you know, I'm not saying

01:26:06.740 I have a perfect record from

01:26:07.700 that point thereafter, but I

01:26:09.520 certainly did a hell of a lot

01:26:10.420 better than I would have if

01:26:12.000 somebody hadn't remembered to

01:26:13.700 say to me, not him, you.

01:26:16.980 100 percent.

01:26:17.720 That's it.

01:26:18.340 And it changes your attitude

01:26:19.480 and the people that work with

01:26:22.200 you, above you, below you.

01:26:23.980 They will all have better

01:26:25.640 respect.

01:26:26.120 You'll have a better

01:26:26.540 relationship.

01:26:27.440 And that's just the best way for

01:26:29.560 a team to operate.

01:26:30.740 Everyone taking ownership.

01:26:31.840 Mm hmm.

01:26:33.800 What do you think?

01:26:34.940 Because I know you I love your

01:26:36.560 your latest book is called The

01:26:37.920 Code, the evaluation, the

01:26:39.540 protocols.

01:26:40.060 And this is good.

01:26:40.560 It's a code for how to tackle

01:26:41.420 life.

01:26:42.080 Just here's a few just for our

01:26:43.500 audience.

01:26:43.960 I will take care of my physical

01:26:45.320 health.

01:26:45.660 I'm short forming.

01:26:46.960 I will develop myself mentally

01:26:48.520 by doing creative things,

01:26:50.440 reading things that develop me

01:26:51.780 mentally.

01:26:52.300 I will not waste time.

01:26:53.520 I will not waste money.

01:26:54.480 I will set goals.

01:26:56.320 That's an important one.

01:26:57.460 I will excel in my job.

01:26:58.980 I will be humble.

01:26:59.780 I will control my emotions.

01:27:01.300 I will put others before

01:27:02.500 myself.

01:27:03.340 I will take care of and protect

01:27:04.580 my friends and family.

01:27:06.140 And I was looking at that and

01:27:07.440 thinking about the goal setting

01:27:09.780 because I do think that's an

01:27:11.780 important part of succeeding in

01:27:13.060 life of, yes, being a leader,

01:27:14.360 but also just succeeding in life.

01:27:16.520 Sometimes we meander.

01:27:18.100 Sometimes we don't sit down and

01:27:19.480 say, what next for me?

01:27:21.120 What do I want?

01:27:22.160 Like oftentimes we sit back and

01:27:24.140 say, I'm not happy.

01:27:25.160 I don't feel good.

01:27:26.500 But we don't say, what would

01:27:28.580 make me happy?

01:27:29.300 And how can I, how can I get

01:27:30.920 there?

01:27:31.920 So when you talk about setting

01:27:33.060 goals, like what does that look

01:27:34.380 like?

01:27:34.680 Somebody listening to this right

01:27:35.600 now, like write it down, say it

01:27:37.400 out loud, put it on like a vision

01:27:39.680 board.

01:27:40.260 What is it?

01:27:40.700 What does it look like?

01:27:41.780 I say you write it down.

01:27:43.660 And, and for me, look, I have

01:27:45.480 things that I'm doing all the

01:27:46.840 time that I, one of my, I guess

01:27:50.660 it's a trick or a methodology that

01:27:53.700 I use is I sign up for things

01:27:56.080 that I know are going to be very

01:27:58.740 hard to achieve, but I, but I,

01:28:00.320 but I sign up for them.

01:28:01.360 So whether that's publishing a

01:28:03.440 book.

01:28:03.820 So by the time I have a book

01:28:05.500 coming out, I already have

01:28:07.340 signed to write another book.

01:28:08.980 And I know that I'm not saying,

01:28:10.660 oh, I'm going to take a break.

01:28:11.840 Nick could use a little

01:28:12.580 downtime would be nice.

01:28:13.400 No, I know.

01:28:14.660 I know I have another book in

01:28:16.260 me.

01:28:16.600 I know, already know what it is.

01:28:18.020 So I go talk to the publisher

01:28:19.900 and say, yep, here's what I'm

01:28:20.940 doing next.

01:28:21.400 And they say, okay, here's the

01:28:22.380 date.

01:28:22.640 Can you get it in by then?

01:28:23.780 And I say, yes, I can.

01:28:26.820 So, you, you know, I like to,

01:28:28.680 I like to take on things that

01:28:29.800 are going to be hard for my

01:28:30.640 podcast.

01:28:31.600 My podcast takes a lot of time

01:28:32.760 to put together and I, I

01:28:35.260 release one every single week.

01:28:37.440 And sometimes it's, sometimes

01:28:40.120 that means Saturday.

01:28:41.380 So in fact, most times it means

01:28:43.240 Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I'm

01:28:45.220 working, I'm reading, I'm

01:28:46.280 preparing for the podcast

01:28:47.160 because during the week I'm

01:28:48.580 working with clients, et cetera.

01:28:51.360 And so, but I sign up for it

01:28:53.440 and I get it done.

01:28:54.380 So that's what I do.

01:28:55.820 I like to sign up for things

01:28:57.240 and, and things that are a

01:28:59.680 little bit uncomfortable.

01:29:00.220 I like to, I like to bite off

01:29:01.760 a little bit more than I can

01:29:02.620 chew and, and hope that I don't

01:29:04.380 choke on it.

01:29:05.100 And I usually don't because I

01:29:07.280 will grind until I get that,

01:29:09.240 that project or projects done.

01:29:12.200 Do you ever cancel last minute?

01:29:14.380 No, no.

01:29:16.280 And you know, I've, I've written

01:29:18.740 a bunch of books and I've, I've

01:29:21.420 turned them in on deadline

01:29:22.700 every single time.

01:29:23.600 I remember one time my, my, I

01:29:25.760 was, I said, Hey, I'm going to

01:29:26.980 be tight on this book, but I'll

01:29:28.700 have it to you by midnight.

01:29:30.340 And my, my publisher, I think

01:29:31.840 it was like my third book.

01:29:32.900 And he said, Hey, you can get

01:29:35.460 it to me tomorrow.

01:29:36.700 Most people are two or three

01:29:38.060 months late.

01:29:38.860 And I said, really?

01:29:39.780 And he said, yeah.

01:29:40.440 And I said, well, I'm not going

01:29:41.200 to, I'm going to get it to you

01:29:41.780 by midnight.

01:29:42.220 So it's, uh, I, I, I think

01:29:45.520 those schedules, I try and

01:29:46.500 deliver.

01:29:47.300 Well, it's a self-discipline

01:29:48.800 that I think most of us lack.

01:29:50.600 I mean, you're extremely

01:29:51.500 self-disciplined.

01:29:52.380 That's very clear and listening

01:29:53.580 to you and looking at your

01:29:54.600 life story.

01:29:55.060 And I'm sure that's what led

01:29:56.340 to your success as a SEAL.

01:29:57.860 But I, I don't know, is it

01:29:59.900 hard to maintain that in the

01:30:01.560 civilian world or that's just

01:30:02.860 part of you?

01:30:03.520 Cause I know you get up every

01:30:04.600 morning, you work out, you're

01:30:06.220 big on, you know, physical

01:30:07.360 well, well-being.

01:30:08.340 You're like, I don't know.

01:30:09.780 Are you ever the guy who's

01:30:11.020 like, I don't want to go to

01:30:12.340 that dinner.

01:30:13.040 Tell him we're doing

01:30:13.580 something else.

01:30:14.180 Like he just phones it in at

01:30:15.380 the end.

01:30:15.680 Cause he just over committed

01:30:16.840 or, you know what I'm saying?

01:30:18.380 Like, are you ever that guy?

01:30:19.800 I really don't make a lot of

01:30:21.260 social commitments.

01:30:22.480 I don't go to dinner at

01:30:24.840 people's houses.

01:30:26.020 Cause I don't, I mean, generally

01:30:27.440 I might do that once a quarter

01:30:29.400 I'll go to dinner at someone's

01:30:31.620 house because quite frankly,

01:30:32.880 I'd rather, you know, hang out

01:30:34.880 with my wife, grab some dinner

01:30:35.920 with her, hang out with my

01:30:37.200 kids and do stuff like that.

01:30:39.020 So I don't, I don't have a lot

01:30:40.140 of social commitments out there

01:30:42.000 in the world.

01:30:42.400 I guess, uh,

01:30:43.480 doesn't she, doesn't she make

01:30:46.000 you have them?

01:30:46.720 Usually it's the wife saying

01:30:47.860 we're having dinner with our

01:30:49.000 friends.

01:30:49.840 Um, my wife is pretty awesome

01:30:51.820 and she knows that that's not

01:30:53.200 one of my favorite things to

01:30:54.200 do.

01:30:54.760 So she doesn't overcommit on

01:30:57.880 and again, I think she just

01:30:59.360 uses it as a, as an excuse.

01:31:01.120 And I think people, my friends

01:31:02.800 actually know me well enough

01:31:03.840 that they don't usually invite

01:31:05.400 me over.

01:31:05.940 So are you anti-social?

01:31:08.900 Uh, I don't know what I'm

01:31:10.440 necessarily anti-social, but

01:31:12.440 I'm usually just pretty busy.

01:31:13.980 And so for me, for instance,

01:31:17.660 going to someone's house for

01:31:18.660 dinner, that's a, that's a

01:31:20.480 four hour evolution.

01:31:21.960 And meanwhile, dinner for me

01:31:24.000 is, is, you know, 13 minutes

01:31:27.520 and I'm actually reading while

01:31:29.260 I'm eating or I'm at least

01:31:30.240 hanging out with my kids.

01:31:31.520 So, uh, I'd say, uh, yeah,

01:31:34.640 four hours versus 15 minutes.

01:31:36.400 I'll, I'd rather get it done

01:31:37.400 in 15 minutes and yeah, I

01:31:40.040 don't know if I'm anti-social.

01:31:41.920 Um, but maybe I'm a little bit

01:31:44.120 anti-social.

01:31:44.780 I think, you know, I, I spend

01:31:46.260 a lot of time talking to

01:31:47.460 people.

01:31:48.160 I mean, whether it's doing

01:31:50.000 the podcast, whether it's

01:31:51.100 working with clients, whether

01:31:52.500 it's going to events.

01:31:53.580 And so I'm interacting with

01:31:55.040 people all the time.

01:31:56.120 And so sometimes when I don't

01:31:57.740 have to interact with people,

01:31:58.780 it's kind of nice.

01:32:01.000 So how, how long after

01:32:02.280 meeting your wife, did you

01:32:03.120 propose to her?

01:32:04.080 I don't know.

01:32:05.200 I don't know the answer to

01:32:06.100 that question, but I do know

01:32:07.140 that I told one of my friends

01:32:08.520 maybe two days later that, uh,

01:32:11.800 if, if, if I can't, I'm

01:32:13.100 going to marry this girl.

01:32:13.720 So it's pretty quick.

01:32:15.600 Wow.

01:32:16.000 And I probably could have

01:32:16.600 told you that 15 seconds.

01:32:18.380 Is she British?

01:32:19.620 She is.

01:32:20.240 Yep.

01:32:20.460 She's a Brit.

01:32:21.280 Okay.

01:32:21.720 And so what was it, what

01:32:23.080 was it about her?

01:32:23.820 What kind of a woman does

01:32:24.900 Jocko like?

01:32:25.900 It just like, is she tough?

01:32:28.120 Does she have sharp edges

01:32:29.280 or is she soft and sort of

01:32:30.720 the yin to your yang?

01:32:32.080 Uh, I would, she, I would

01:32:35.000 go yang, yin to the yang

01:32:36.700 over here.

01:32:37.640 Cause she's like super nice.

01:32:39.980 And, uh, that's, you know,

01:32:41.740 I realized within 30 seconds

01:32:43.440 of talking about she was a

01:32:44.360 really nice, good hearted

01:32:46.080 human being.

01:32:47.100 And, and also she was

01:32:49.560 incredibly beautiful.

01:32:50.480 So between those two things,

01:32:51.780 I thought this, this might

01:32:52.960 be a keeper.

01:32:54.900 So you have four children

01:32:56.440 together, right?

01:32:57.240 Four, three girls and a boy.

01:32:59.040 Yep.

01:32:59.580 Okay.

01:32:59.840 And did you have similar,

01:33:01.840 cause I know three of them

01:33:02.640 are now college age and one

01:33:04.100 is like 11 or 12.

01:33:05.360 Did you have similar, do you

01:33:07.000 have similar parenting styles?

01:33:08.740 I would say that there's a

01:33:10.880 balance there as well, but

01:33:12.200 we're pretty, we're, we're

01:33:13.160 in the same ballpark.

01:33:14.280 We're in the same ballpark.

01:33:15.160 Are you like, are you like a

01:33:16.300 Navy seal in the morning?

01:33:17.340 Like up, get up 5.

01:33:19.240 AM run, work out, you know,

01:33:22.200 lift the boat.

01:33:23.700 What, what do you do to them?

01:33:25.500 I'm, I'm more just like any

01:33:28.080 other leadership positions I've

01:33:29.160 ever been in.

01:33:29.900 I believe in decentralized

01:33:31.420 command.

01:33:32.720 And so with, with my kids,

01:33:36.020 people, this is something I

01:33:37.940 said to a client maybe a month

01:33:39.840 ago, my kids never had

01:33:42.140 curfews.

01:33:42.760 So my older kids, if they went

01:33:44.740 out until whenever they went

01:33:46.560 out, I didn't, it was fine.

01:33:48.780 They could go out with their

01:33:49.840 friends.

01:33:50.140 They could stay over

01:33:50.780 someone's house.

01:33:52.320 I didn't really put

01:33:53.660 restrictions on them other

01:33:55.060 than, Hey, what's your, you

01:33:57.040 know, are you doing well in

01:33:57.880 school?

01:33:58.140 Are your, are your athletics

01:33:59.300 going well?

01:34:00.720 Are you doing your job as a

01:34:03.500 kid?

01:34:03.720 And if you're doing your job

01:34:04.720 as a kid, I trust you and to

01:34:07.300 make good decisions.

01:34:08.600 And so that my kids, it's a

01:34:11.780 lot of decentralized command.

01:34:13.000 They can wake up whenever

01:34:14.040 they want.

01:34:14.580 I can tell you right now, my

01:34:15.600 kids wake up early and they

01:34:17.620 can work out whenever they

01:34:18.460 want.

01:34:18.720 And I'll tell you what my

01:34:19.340 kids work out every day.

01:34:20.620 And it's not because I yell

01:34:21.940 at them or because I tell

01:34:22.860 them to, it's because they

01:34:24.260 understand the importance of

01:34:25.860 being physically fit and

01:34:28.260 getting stuff done.

01:34:29.960 So I've always been sort of

01:34:32.040 a decentralized command

01:34:33.240 tighter.

01:34:34.080 And that, that absolutely

01:34:35.820 applies with my kids as

01:34:36.960 well.

01:34:37.600 I don't, I don't want my

01:34:38.560 kids to be robots.

01:34:40.320 Right.

01:34:40.820 But like, what happens if

01:34:42.000 they, you know, they came

01:34:43.100 home and they did something

01:34:44.020 really stupid?

01:34:45.020 Yeah.

01:34:45.360 Then there's going to be

01:34:45.980 consequences.

01:34:47.100 And, you know, I had a

01:34:48.800 variety of punishments that

01:34:50.860 I would use with my kids at

01:34:51.940 various stages of their

01:34:52.840 lives.

01:34:54.500 One of them was, one of them

01:34:56.980 was smashing toys.

01:34:58.260 So I, my, my, I had to use

01:34:59.700 it with my son, I had to

01:35:00.720 use it with my son once.

01:35:02.360 And then once I did it,

01:35:04.440 there was no more issues,

01:35:05.460 but I, I very calmly said,

01:35:07.680 Hey, you know what, the,

01:35:09.000 what you did, you're not

01:35:09.960 allowed to do that.

01:35:11.100 So I'm going to have to

01:35:12.580 smash one of your toys.

01:35:13.920 And I, this is probably

01:35:15.000 when he was, I don't know,

01:35:17.020 seven or eight.

01:35:17.960 No, no, actually he was

01:35:19.800 probably five or six took

01:35:21.580 one of his toys.

01:35:22.300 I had a hammer and I said,

01:35:24.460 yep, this is what's going

01:35:25.280 to happen.

01:35:25.680 So I took the toy and I

01:35:27.420 said, I'm sorry that I have

01:35:28.460 to do this, but lessons have

01:35:29.680 to get learned.

01:35:30.140 I smashed his toy.

01:35:31.240 And then I went into his

01:35:32.640 room.

01:35:32.940 I took one of his other

01:35:33.960 favorite toys and I put it

01:35:35.600 in, I put it on the table

01:35:37.400 and I said, this one is on

01:35:39.040 deck.

01:35:40.460 So if you don't want to

01:35:42.540 behave, then this one's

01:35:44.280 next and never had an issue

01:35:45.880 again.

01:35:46.840 Um, I, my kids are always

01:35:48.680 scared when I tell them to

01:35:49.720 put their work clothes on.

01:35:50.980 So if I tell you, if I, if

01:35:52.660 I, if something happens

01:35:53.480 and I tell you to put your

01:35:54.120 work clothes on, you're

01:35:55.120 going to be doing some

01:35:55.620 serious manual labor and

01:35:57.460 whether that's pulling weeds

01:35:59.240 or cleaning up garbage or,

01:36:01.460 you know, sweeping sand

01:36:02.960 from one side of the

01:36:03.920 driveway to the other side

01:36:05.180 and back again, I can come

01:36:06.660 up with some pretty good

01:36:07.520 physical, physical labor

01:36:09.300 that comes into play.

01:36:10.560 But quite honestly, the

01:36:12.880 amount of punishments that

01:36:14.340 I had to dole out with my

01:36:15.540 kids is very small because

01:36:17.760 they, they, I think it's

01:36:19.920 more important to just

01:36:21.200 like, just like with a,

01:36:22.740 with a frontline seal, look

01:36:25.220 that frontline seal is going

01:36:26.560 to be in a situation where

01:36:27.320 they have to make decisions

01:36:27.960 on their own.

01:36:28.440 And if they don't

01:36:29.080 understand the strategy, if

01:36:31.080 they don't understand how,

01:36:32.540 what they're doing will

01:36:33.320 impact everything else that's

01:36:34.480 going on.

01:36:34.900 If they don't understand

01:36:35.680 that, you can't count on

01:36:36.560 them to make good decisions.

01:36:37.960 So you have to make sure

01:36:39.000 they understand not just

01:36:40.700 what to do and what not to

01:36:41.900 do, but why they need to

01:36:43.040 do it or why they need not

01:36:44.400 do it.

01:36:45.100 So if they understand that,

01:36:46.660 okay, now they can make

01:36:48.120 good decisions without

01:36:49.260 direct oversight.

01:36:50.780 So my kids are very, they

01:36:53.040 have, they, they have the

01:36:54.260 luxury of decentralized

01:36:55.020 command because I trust

01:36:56.360 them.

01:36:56.760 It's the opposite of

01:36:57.800 helicopter parenting.

01:36:59.220 It's the opposite of

01:37:00.280 helicopter parenting.

01:37:01.180 Yes.

01:37:01.720 They know what they should

01:37:03.300 and should not do.

01:37:04.180 They know the consequences,

01:37:05.640 not consequences from me,

01:37:06.820 but consequences from

01:37:07.660 life.

01:37:07.980 Look, consequences from

01:37:09.100 life are much more

01:37:09.960 stringent than the

01:37:10.600 consequences of a

01:37:11.300 parent.

01:37:12.120 So they, if they

01:37:13.520 understand that, if they

01:37:14.540 understand what, you

01:37:15.940 know, what's

01:37:16.660 getting a DUI or

01:37:18.580 going down the

01:37:19.520 path of drugs or

01:37:20.920 whatever type of

01:37:22.140 behavior, reckless

01:37:22.980 behavior, they

01:37:24.000 understand that those

01:37:25.080 consequences are way

01:37:26.780 worse than anything I

01:37:27.960 could, I could deliver

01:37:29.400 unto them.

01:37:30.780 So they know that

01:37:31.920 and they can make their

01:37:33.380 own decisions based on

01:37:34.340 that knowledge.

01:37:34.800 And those decisions

01:37:35.500 are, are good.

01:37:37.380 What'd you tell your

01:37:38.300 kids about dealing

01:37:39.480 with bullies?

01:37:41.360 Well, for one thing,

01:37:42.420 my kids all train

01:37:43.160 jujitsu a lot.

01:37:44.000 And so bullying

01:37:45.900 becomes a lot less

01:37:47.580 of a problem when

01:37:49.040 kids actually know

01:37:50.080 how to fight.

01:37:51.060 And, and that goes

01:37:52.100 in both directions,

01:37:52.980 both in being a

01:37:54.140 bully and, and

01:37:55.260 getting bullied.

01:37:56.660 So when you know

01:37:58.600 jujitsu, someone's

01:38:00.720 going to bully you

01:38:01.520 and look, if they,

01:38:03.020 if they're going to,

01:38:03.500 you know, talk to

01:38:04.240 you, uh, whatever

01:38:05.700 talk back, no big

01:38:06.840 deal.

01:38:07.460 Don't you can, you

01:38:08.680 can ignore them.

01:38:09.420 Don't worry about

01:38:09.920 what someone's going

01:38:10.340 to say.

01:38:10.700 Let's add all those

01:38:11.300 to them.

01:38:11.580 Oh, they're just

01:38:12.280 jealous.

01:38:13.100 They, they're just

01:38:14.120 jealous of what you

01:38:14.900 are, who you are.

01:38:15.780 And that's okay.

01:38:17.080 Think about their

01:38:18.040 position.

01:38:18.420 You don't know them.

01:38:18.980 And look, I've

01:38:19.380 written, I've written

01:38:20.100 four kids books and

01:38:21.200 I, I focus heavily

01:38:22.620 on bullying in, in

01:38:24.300 those books.

01:38:25.320 And so, but when

01:38:26.860 you know jujitsu, all

01:38:27.700 of a sudden, not

01:38:28.620 only do you, do you

01:38:29.800 know how to fight,

01:38:30.940 but people know you

01:38:32.260 have, people know, you

01:38:33.620 know how to fight in

01:38:34.200 the way you carry

01:38:34.700 yourself is stronger.

01:38:36.140 And so you have a

01:38:37.040 lot less chance of

01:38:38.060 being bullied because

01:38:39.020 you're not going to

01:38:39.880 allow that to happen

01:38:40.640 to you.

01:38:41.380 So a beautiful

01:38:42.900 solution for bullying

01:38:44.080 is learn jujitsu, learn

01:38:45.980 how to fight.

01:38:46.600 And, and I know that

01:38:47.740 might sound like I'm a

01:38:48.640 Neanderthal and I'm, I'm

01:38:50.300 a knuckle dragger, which

01:38:51.260 I can't deny either one

01:38:52.600 of those two, but when

01:38:54.860 people know jujitsu, they

01:38:56.300 are, they are less

01:38:57.120 likely to fight and

01:38:58.640 they're, they're less

01:38:59.300 likely to get bullied

01:39:00.260 and they are less

01:39:00.940 likely to bully.

01:39:02.640 Okay.

01:39:03.120 But wait, let me ask

01:39:04.100 you about this because

01:39:04.800 you got, you got three

01:39:06.440 girls.

01:39:06.840 And as you know, girls,

01:39:09.320 they don't often fight

01:39:10.220 with their fists.

01:39:10.820 They use something far

01:39:11.980 more powerful, which is

01:39:13.340 emotions, social access.

01:39:16.560 I mean, they, they put

01:39:17.680 those guys, you know, in,

01:39:19.500 in Ramadi to shame.

01:39:21.320 I mean, the 13 year old

01:39:23.100 girl has got powers

01:39:24.060 unseen in certain

01:39:25.860 theaters of war.

01:39:26.640 And so how do you tell

01:39:28.760 your kid to, to deal

01:39:30.120 with that, right?

01:39:30.800 The emotional torture

01:39:32.000 that these young girls

01:39:33.440 can unleash on one

01:39:34.200 another.

01:39:34.900 Yeah, the, certainly the

01:39:35.820 psychological warfare among

01:39:37.480 the young females is, uh,

01:39:39.300 is, is a thing to be

01:39:40.540 reckoned with for sure.

01:39:41.860 But once again, if you

01:39:43.480 have that, if you have

01:39:44.500 that level of confidence,

01:39:45.680 then it, it, it doesn't

01:39:47.920 only pertain to your, to

01:39:50.000 your physical state.

01:39:51.120 It applies to your mental

01:39:52.340 state as well.

01:39:52.960 It applies to the way

01:39:53.620 you carry yourself.

01:39:54.300 So having that confidence

01:39:56.920 is important.

01:39:58.240 Well, where do you get

01:39:58.940 confidence?

01:39:59.400 You get confidence from

01:40:00.160 knowing how to handle

01:40:00.720 yourself.

01:40:01.160 How do you learn how to

01:40:01.940 handle yourself?

01:40:02.640 Again, it's not just

01:40:03.740 jujitsu, but it's being

01:40:05.460 in good physical condition.

01:40:06.920 It's studying so that you

01:40:08.480 can, can articulate what

01:40:10.340 you're talking about.

01:40:11.720 And, and like, we started

01:40:13.380 this whole conversation

01:40:14.220 off when I was a little

01:40:16.160 kid, everyone's going to

01:40:17.120 get bullied.

01:40:17.940 You're everyone's going

01:40:18.840 to get bullied.

01:40:19.240 There's always going to

01:40:19.640 be someone stronger,

01:40:20.460 someone meaner.

01:40:21.740 And so again, talking your

01:40:24.060 kids through what, if

01:40:25.460 someone is bullying you,

01:40:27.120 let's say tormenting you

01:40:29.040 verbally, why are they

01:40:31.020 doing that?

01:40:31.820 What situation are they

01:40:32.920 in?

01:40:33.600 What, what, what kind

01:40:34.820 of home life do they

01:40:35.840 have?

01:40:36.480 What, what trauma have

01:40:38.000 they been through that

01:40:39.300 they feel so bad about

01:40:41.660 their own life that they

01:40:42.580 want to take it out on

01:40:43.540 you?

01:40:44.260 So if you can kind of

01:40:46.660 explain that to a kid,

01:40:48.060 it's very helpful because

01:40:49.840 they realize that they,

01:40:52.840 they don't need to stoop

01:40:53.900 down to that level.

01:40:55.100 They can, they can rise

01:40:56.200 above it and nod their

01:40:57.780 head and smile and say,

01:40:58.860 I hope you feel better

01:40:59.540 tomorrow.

01:41:01.880 It's good.

01:41:02.800 You know, it's funny

01:41:03.420 because I actually didn't

01:41:04.080 know that you had written

01:41:04.680 children's books.

01:41:05.340 And one of the things I

01:41:06.500 did in preparing for this

01:41:07.420 interview was I haven't

01:41:08.480 read them yet, but I

01:41:09.060 said to my assistant,

01:41:09.700 get me every single one

01:41:10.460 he's written.

01:41:11.120 And so they're all

01:41:11.880 sitting there.

01:41:12.260 I'm actually really

01:41:12.900 excited to get started

01:41:13.880 on those with my kids

01:41:15.140 because, you know, too

01:41:16.340 much of the children's

01:41:17.300 books are total nonsense.

01:41:19.060 And now they've gone

01:41:19.920 like totally woke, which I

01:41:21.600 don't want either.

01:41:22.600 I want like good

01:41:23.380 practical advice for

01:41:24.680 life's situations.

01:41:25.800 And it sounds like these

01:41:26.660 might be right up my

01:41:28.280 alley.

01:41:28.720 And it, and by the way,

01:41:29.460 it reminds me of, um,

01:41:30.740 you wrote, you wrote

01:41:31.460 something not long ago

01:41:32.580 about toxic masculinity

01:41:34.460 and what bullshit this

01:41:35.520 whole thing was about

01:41:36.320 like the American

01:41:36.840 Psychological Association's

01:41:38.460 guidelines on how,

01:41:39.400 you know, you shouldn't

01:41:40.720 control your emotions

01:41:41.680 and you shouldn't be

01:41:42.500 competitive and you

01:41:43.440 shouldn't be dominant

01:41:44.300 and you completely just

01:41:46.180 killed it.

01:41:46.660 It was actually a great,

01:41:47.560 great piece.

01:41:48.340 But I love that you,

01:41:50.000 this is one of the lines

01:41:50.820 that you had.

01:41:51.920 A leader must strive

01:41:52.900 for balance and a man

01:41:54.000 must do the same.

01:41:55.040 Be courageous, but not

01:41:56.320 foolhardy.

01:41:57.380 Decisive, but not

01:41:58.500 dictatorial.

01:41:59.940 Open-minded, but

01:42:00.760 principled.

01:42:01.780 Disciplined, but not

01:42:03.160 rigid.

01:42:04.080 It certainly sounds like

01:42:05.000 you've, you've lived

01:42:06.200 that, Jocko.

01:42:07.160 And listen, if you don't,

01:42:08.540 if you'll indulge me

01:42:09.160 one more second, I

01:42:10.620 really wanted to ask

01:42:11.640 you as somebody who has

01:42:12.640 spent your life the way

01:42:13.600 you have before I let

01:42:14.600 you go, can you just

01:42:16.380 try to sum up what you

01:42:18.620 love about America?

01:42:19.540 It's pretty simple and

01:42:20.960 straightforward.

01:42:22.180 America is a wide open

01:42:25.780 opportunity for people.

01:42:28.700 And it's based on the fact

01:42:29.920 that we have freedom as

01:42:31.560 individuals.

01:42:32.800 And I'm living proof of

01:42:35.220 that.

01:42:35.500 You know, I own multiple

01:42:36.640 businesses right now.

01:42:38.180 We've got a, I've got a

01:42:39.100 factory up in Maine where

01:42:40.520 we're making clothing and

01:42:42.760 boots and jeans in America,

01:42:44.820 a hundred percent from the

01:42:47.060 cotton that's grown in the

01:42:48.420 fields and in the South to

01:42:50.000 the, the, the, the dye

01:42:51.340 houses down there to us

01:42:52.920 bringing that material up

01:42:54.060 and, and weaving it up in

01:42:55.880 Maine.

01:42:56.940 This, this is just a place

01:42:59.120 of incredible opportunity.

01:43:00.820 And I think that that's

01:43:02.860 what, that's what, that's

01:43:05.100 what the strength of

01:43:05.600 America is.

01:43:06.180 The strength of America is,

01:43:06.940 you know, I talked about

01:43:07.440 decentralized command a

01:43:08.300 couple of times today.

01:43:09.660 What, what makes America so

01:43:11.380 incredible is we, we have

01:43:13.080 decentralized command, you

01:43:14.680 know, you can pick what

01:43:15.920 your goals are and you can

01:43:17.520 go out.

01:43:18.100 And if you want to work

01:43:19.220 hard and you want to

01:43:20.940 dedicate yourself, you can

01:43:22.420 absolutely make, you can

01:43:24.160 actually absolutely achieve

01:43:25.080 those goals, not based on

01:43:26.340 what someone else does for

01:43:28.080 you, but we're based on

01:43:29.020 what you do for yourself.

01:43:31.100 So to me, the individual

01:43:32.980 freedom that we have in this

01:43:34.460 country is the strongest

01:43:36.160 asset.

01:43:36.900 It's just look decentralized

01:43:38.440 command on the battlefield is

01:43:39.440 the strongest asset you can

01:43:40.340 have.

01:43:40.880 Knowing that people are going

01:43:42.200 to make decisions and make

01:43:43.060 things happen based on

01:43:44.480 understanding the goal that

01:43:46.100 they're trying to strive

01:43:47.120 towards.

01:43:47.700 That's the best kind of team.

01:43:49.280 It's the best kind of team in

01:43:50.280 the business world where

01:43:51.400 everybody on the team knows

01:43:52.920 what the goal is and they go

01:43:54.140 out there and they maneuver

01:43:55.340 and work and move the team

01:43:57.900 towards that goal as an

01:43:59.360 individual.

01:44:00.080 And it's the same thing with

01:44:00.780 this country.

01:44:01.320 We have individual freedom.

01:44:03.180 You have the freedom to go

01:44:04.280 out and make things happen.

01:44:05.680 And that is what makes

01:44:07.060 America so strong in my mind.

01:44:09.820 And then obviously on top of

01:44:10.920 that we have incredibly brave

01:44:13.680 people in this country that

01:44:15.600 serve and sacrifice.

01:44:17.240 And the fact that every single

01:44:18.260 day there's a new recruit

01:44:19.900 walking into boot camp in the

01:44:21.780 Army, in the Navy, in the Air

01:44:23.600 Force, in the Marine Corps, and

01:44:25.660 no matter what race, gender,

01:44:28.360 male, female, they are stepping

01:44:30.480 into that role.

01:44:31.440 They're ready to make that

01:44:32.520 sacrifice.

01:44:33.540 And that's why we will always

01:44:35.080 maintain this freedom that we

01:44:37.140 have in this country.

01:44:40.920 Thanks for listening to The

01:44:42.600 Megyn Kelly Show.

01:44:43.680 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:44:46.180 Your business doesn't move in a

01:45:00.560 straight line.

01:45:01.540 Some days bring growth, others

01:45:03.280 bring challenges.

01:45:04.680 But what if you or a partner

01:45:06.020 needs to step away?

01:45:07.580 When the unexpected happens,

01:45:09.300 count on Canada Life's flexible

01:45:11.220 life and health insurance to help

01:45:13.000 your business keep working, even

01:45:14.580 when you can't.

01:45:15.420 Don't let life's challenges stand

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01:45:19.200 Protect what you've built today.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - July 28, 2022

Jocko Willink on Responding to Adversity, Personal Responsibility, and Parenting ｜ Summer Re-Release

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