The Megyn Kelly Show - John Stossel on Big Tech Censorship, COVID Fear, and Capitalism ｜ Ep. 79

00:00:00.480 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.740 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:14.880 Today, Stossel, John Stossel, a good friend, a great reporter,

00:00:23.260 and the man with one of the most famous mustaches in all of the world.

00:00:27.200 I mean, it's got to be at least top three.

00:00:30.000 I mean, it's off the top of my head. I'm thinking Tom Selleck, Geraldo, I guess,

00:00:35.300 but then he shaved it, so his has been on again, off again. I'm not sure.

00:00:38.540 But anyway, you're going to love him. He's going to educate you, and he's coming up right after this.

00:00:50.700 It's great to talk to you. How are you?

00:00:52.760 I'm good. I'm finally out of COVID land, vaccinated, and went to Florida a couple days ago.

00:01:00.000 And it's a whole different world. People don't wear masks all the time, certainly not outdoors.

00:01:07.940 And it's so freeing.

00:01:10.540 It's wonderful when you go to a state like that. A group of friends and I were texting, and we're all over the country,

00:01:17.280 and we were talking about the schools, and one woman just got her middle schooler back into New York City school

00:01:23.580 for the first time in person in a year.

00:01:27.160 And the big new turn is he gets to go one day a week for four hours, right, because she's in New York City.

00:01:35.740 Our friend down in Florida was saying, my kid's been going full-time since August.

00:01:39.380 We don't believe in COVID down here.

00:01:40.840 And the incidence is not different. It's not like that the crazy northerners have the solution. 0.93

00:01:50.360 I mean, I'm in Cape Cod, near where your sister-in-law is, and we take walks in the woods.

00:01:57.300 And every once in a while, we'll see someone wearing a mask in the woods, and she'll see us coming,

00:02:02.400 and she'll run in the other direction, as if we somehow could give her COVID at a distance.

00:02:09.160 Reminds you of your days at ABC, when you came out as a libertarian.

00:02:12.300 Yeah. As usual, I'm in the minority.

00:02:16.240 I wondered how you felt about it, because you are very much the libertarian, do not like government interference in our lives,

00:02:22.820 but you're also 73 years old, you had lung cancer at one point, and, you know, you're high risk.

00:02:29.180 So I thought there was a chance you were mildly pro-government restrictions on our liberties, as we've seen them.

00:02:38.140 But if I had to put money on it, I would have said anti-lockdown.

00:02:41.780 Well, yes and no.

00:02:43.720 Certainly a pandemic is a time when government ought to have the right to tell people, don't spread it.

00:02:51.340 And at the beginning, when we didn't know much, and the rates were shooting up,

00:02:55.120 and there was a risk of hospitals being overwhelmed, then some parts of the lockdown, I think,

00:03:03.000 and I think most libertarians would say, all right, that's a role for government.

00:03:06.660 But then it became fairly irrational.

00:03:09.960 What did you, what, like, when did you start feeling that?

00:03:12.780 I feel like, for me, it wasn't that long into it.

00:03:16.220 I understood March, you know, and I understood the beginning of April.

00:03:20.600 And soon thereafter, it just started to feel like, wait a minute, what are, we're ruining people's lives.

00:03:26.360 We're devastating the entire economy over a virus that, as the weeks went by,

00:03:32.260 seemed to be playing out to be, yes, dangerous to certainly some population,

00:03:37.300 but not as deadly as they first feared.

00:03:39.960 True, though 500,000 deaths is a lot, and about, I think, five times the flu, and more than five times the flu.

00:03:48.740 So this was a real one.

00:03:51.340 And because my wife, who you know, was so, is so ridiculously scared of everything,

00:03:59.820 spending, spending time with her, it was contagious.

00:04:04.500 She started getting me scared.

00:04:06.000 I started being nervous to be around people.

00:04:09.680 What a liberation to be here in Florida.

00:04:12.800 It's changed my whole attitude.

00:04:15.760 Is she there with you?

00:04:16.600 Is she feeling that, too?

00:04:18.000 No, she would never travel.

00:04:20.560 She's hiding in New York City.

00:04:24.000 And I, she's told me I have to quarantine for 10 days before she will spend time with me when I return.

00:04:31.820 Well, it is true that she's not alone.

00:04:36.400 I mean, Ellen is a very rational, extremely brilliant woman and super fun, too. 0.99

00:04:40.480 But it is true that, especially here in New York, I think there's a high population of people who are really scared.

00:04:47.060 And I, and it's in part because of the messaging, right?

00:04:49.600 And we were the epicenter at first.

00:04:51.460 It's really exploded here before anywhere else.

00:04:53.800 But it really is attitudinal.

00:04:55.780 And I agree with you.

00:04:57.040 I was saying earlier, I went down to Georgia for my nephew's wedding and, you know, I was saying to Doug, oh, my God, this is a super spreader event.

00:05:03.760 We were inside.

00:05:04.740 There were 100, 100 people or so.

00:05:06.440 Nobody had a mask on.

00:05:07.720 We didn't socially distance.

00:05:09.280 And no one cared.

00:05:10.440 And guess what?

00:05:11.020 No one got it because we followed up.

00:05:13.100 It's part of this whole social media divide in the country.

00:05:17.380 And it goes, it makes me think of you and your experiences.

00:05:22.860 You were complaining about people being vicious on social media.

00:05:27.600 And I rolled my eyes and said, well, you don't have to read it and ignore it.

00:05:33.080 And then I read some of your social media.

00:05:35.200 And my God, there's a pack of people who just hate you for irrational reasons.

00:05:43.380 Wait, what?

00:05:43.900 The country has, in Cape Cod, where I am, that's the place that where Trump got the least votes.

00:05:53.580 The same is true of New York City.

00:05:55.440 Everybody reads the same stuff and they acquire real hatred of what they perceive to be on the right, even when it isn't.

00:06:02.280 And then it starts to affect their opinions about safety and wearing masks.

00:06:08.580 And the algorithm keeps feeding you more of what you already believe.

00:06:14.220 And we are dividing into two warring camps.

00:06:18.400 Yeah, I see it all the time.

00:06:20.000 Like I go out and I do a little guest appearance at this class in Stanford every year because I like the teacher, the professor who leads the class.

00:06:28.100 And Stanford is not exactly my demo, I'd say, for, you know, my fans.

00:06:34.660 No college university would be a college or university.

00:06:37.420 But so you sort of see the looks on the kids' faces when I first show up, like, oh, my God.

00:06:43.340 By the end, we're thick as thieves, you know, because when people are sort of forced to see your humanity and see you without this weird veneer that the media puts on you, you know, you have a very different impression.

00:06:57.620 And I don't know, I think probably the media down in Florida is different, too.

00:07:01.380 Probably there are a lot more Fox watchers down in Florida than there are MSNBC watchers. 0.97

00:07:05.460 So all the, you know, it's, you know, the old garbage in, garbage out, right? 1.00

00:07:08.420 Like you're taking in nothing other than you're all going to die. 0.99

00:07:12.020 Like that guy, Donald McNeil, Nick Neal, who got pushed out of The New York Times recently for saying the N-word and quoting somebody else who said the N-word.

00:07:20.620 He, I know they all love Donald McNeil.

00:07:23.300 He was their COVID reporter, but the guy was in hysteric.

00:07:25.880 Like, everything he wrote was like a five-alarm fire.

00:07:29.400 No one cared about that at the Times, of course.

00:07:31.680 But I can see how if you read Donald McNeil every day, because I listen to him on the Daily Podcast, I was like, oh, my God, how long do we have?

00:07:39.560 And it's not going to end well unless people start seeking out the other side.

00:07:45.160 And I imagine there'll be new social media that appear and they'll say, we give you all sides instead of just giving you more of what you believe.

00:07:53.420 But I look at my feed and it's all libertarianism or volleyball or mixed martial arts.

00:08:00.180 We're just getting more of what we're interested in.

00:08:03.260 It's true.

00:08:04.060 So now, what about the vaccine?

00:08:06.920 Does that make Ellen feel better?

00:08:08.220 Like, when fully vaccinated?

00:08:10.360 You say you are.

00:08:11.040 I assume she is, too.

00:08:12.060 Yes.

00:08:12.680 We are both.

00:08:13.500 We've got our second vaccines.

00:08:15.100 It makes her feel a little better.

00:08:16.720 But now she reads in The New York Times about, well, there's this new strain.

00:08:21.680 We don't know that the new strain is going to be resistant to the vaccine.

00:08:25.720 And she will, some people will just find things to worry about. 0.99

00:08:30.400 I figure I'm 73.

00:08:32.180 Something's going to get me pretty soon.

00:08:35.780 I want to live the life I have.

00:08:38.180 The video we released is Mike Rowe talking about there's danger everywhere.

00:08:44.980 It ought to be safety third instead of safety first because the stuff of life is taking some risks.

00:08:51.660 Right.

00:08:51.780 We had him on the show, and it was a great point.

00:08:54.240 He was talking about how we all, we have a different risk tolerance as human beings.

00:08:59.580 But he was saying most of us figure it out.

00:09:01.280 Most of us don't need government to hold our hands through every step of our days, which is why he said you can cross the street even when it says don't walk if you can see that no cars are coming in either direction.

00:09:11.020 As long as you're an adult, not if you're like you're four.

00:09:13.640 And we've sort of forgotten that.

00:09:15.020 You know, it's like until they say COVID's completely eliminated, everyone's been perfectly vaccinated, we have 100% herd immunity.

00:09:20.760 They're not going to go outside.

00:09:22.540 But what's scary to me, even as I have a strong libertarian streak in me, I will say, is this talk of making the vaccine mandatory and possibly making it mandatory for kids.

00:09:33.480 And you can't get on an airplane maybe if you haven't had it.

00:09:36.320 I mean, I just I don't think people are ready for that.

00:09:39.240 I realize we've submitted to government control in a way we never have before.

00:09:43.100 But I just don't think people are ready for that this thing to be a mandatory part of our lives.

00:09:47.420 I agree. And I don't think that'll happen.

00:09:50.040 I don't know. You don't think even under a Joe Biden administration, they're not going to make it mandatory.

00:09:54.640 I think there would be so much resistance and they don't really need to to have the vaccine be effective.

00:10:01.780 And they'll get what, 90 percent of the people?

00:10:04.900 They don't need 100 percent.

00:10:06.160 But they're already talking about how some of these school teachers are saying they're not going to come back into the classroom until not just all the teachers, most of whom are in their 30s.

00:10:17.920 I mean, the average age for a teacher is young, 30s or 40s.

00:10:20.560 Not just the teachers are all vaccinated, but all the students are vaccinated.

00:10:24.980 I mean, it's absurd.

00:10:26.160 Yes. Yes. Is it the teachers?

00:10:29.260 It's really the the leaders of the activist groups, the unions where there are unions, the PTAs even when they get entrenched in certain areas.

00:10:39.160 They like getting paid for not working.

00:10:41.380 And once you start looking for perfect safety, it's hard to stop.

00:10:45.460 Coming up next, we're going to talk to Stassel about teachers and unions.

00:10:49.160 He's been a longtime antagonizer of the unions.

00:10:53.960 You'll find out why they protested him outside of ABC News one time in his direct challenge to them and what he thinks about what they're doing now.

00:11:01.920 That's coming up in one minute.

00:11:03.140 But first, this.

00:11:07.800 You have long been a critic of the unions.

00:11:10.600 They they protested you one time outside of ABC, didn't they?

00:11:14.060 Did they show up to protest you? 1.00

00:11:15.300 I did a piece called Stupid in America when I was in 2020. 1.00

00:11:19.980 And those were the days when, thanks to stupid government rules, you only had about three channels. 1.00

00:11:26.920 And so I would get massive audiences. 0.95

00:11:29.960 And that show, I was worried it wouldn't rate well.

00:11:33.260 It would be my last special because it wasn't very visually exciting.

00:11:37.120 It was just kids and classrooms.

00:11:39.040 It was about school choice, introducing the concept.

00:11:41.680 Why not attach the money to the kid?

00:11:44.000 And New York at the time was spending more than 10, more than $20,000 per student and saying, we don't have enough money.

00:11:54.340 That's why we're struggling.

00:11:55.680 But that's $400,000 a classroom.

00:11:58.380 You could hire four great teachers for that.

00:12:01.360 And they were still failing.

00:12:02.540 So I did the show, surprisingly, it rated very well.

00:12:07.120 And the teachers union then staged a protest outside 2020's offices, screaming, teach, John, teach.

00:12:14.020 You don't know what it's like, how difficult it is to teach.

00:12:17.780 So I surprised them by coming out of the building and saying, OK, show me.

00:12:23.160 I'll teach.

00:12:24.720 Did you?

00:12:24.960 And they, no, they backed down.

00:12:27.200 They had 94 meetings about it.

00:12:29.580 And they, they're just bureaucrats.

00:12:34.200 Somebody was like, what that, wait, we're going to put him in front of our kids?

00:12:37.380 Wait, no.

00:12:38.460 What if he says something he believes?

00:12:42.140 Exactly.

00:12:42.580 But you found a way in, you know, I, I know, I didn't know that you had this, uh, this website.

00:12:50.760 It's a nonprofit that has videos for teachers and actually spent some time nosing around on them.

00:12:55.500 And I really liked them.

00:12:56.660 I love Stossel TV, by the way.

00:12:58.300 That's like your main thing where you're putting out your videos and your news reporting.

00:13:01.740 And it's always very well done.

00:13:02.840 It doesn't take up much of your time, but it gives you a very nice summation of various issues of the day.

00:13:07.440 But Stossel TV, who's that for?

00:13:09.240 I mean, not Stossel TV, the, the, the nonprofit for the teachers are the teachers who would click on that.

00:13:14.020 The ones we need to be reaching.

00:13:15.380 Talk to me about that nonprofit.

00:13:17.280 I started it years ago because teachers would say, oh, I wish I had videotaped that.

00:13:21.720 I'd like to show it to my kids.

00:13:23.140 And I did videotape it and it sparked classroom discussion about these issues.

00:13:28.360 And so I started the nonprofit that offered them free to teachers that we have about a couple million kids who watch the stuff in class every year now,

00:13:37.440 because about a hundred thousand teachers use this.

00:13:41.460 But the answer to your question, unfortunately, is no, we're not reaching the right people.

00:13:46.920 It's again, the people who get it, want to watch this stuff.

00:13:53.080 Other people don't.

00:13:54.920 Sadly, I think teachers as a lot are pretty liberal.

00:13:58.240 Their school districts tend to mean more liberal.

00:14:00.540 They're all getting more activist.

00:14:02.760 I don't know.

00:14:03.140 Maybe I'm wrong.

00:14:03.720 Maybe there is still sort of a large contingent of reasonable, more fair and balanced teachers out there who don't like the hard left turn the schools have taken.

00:14:13.420 What do you think?

00:14:14.400 The teachers go to education schools to get their unneeded mandatory degrees and they get they're not the highest level students going in.

00:14:24.240 Your SAT scores are lower than average and they get brainwashed in the education schools.

00:14:29.240 And yes, you're absolutely right.

00:14:30.820 So you've been doing this docile TV and just for the audience that doesn't know you, you know, I mean, I watched you on 2020 and we're friends.

00:14:38.760 And of course, I knew you at Fox.

00:14:40.600 I love your brand of reporting because, yes, it is libertarian for sure.

00:14:44.200 And it's messaging and it's very skeptical of government and pro capitalist.

00:14:48.040 But you have a very nice manner and very simple way of communicating, which I think is why you became such a star.

00:14:55.840 We put together just a small little clip of various segments that you've done lately.

00:15:02.200 Take a listen.

00:15:03.160 This environmental catastrophe bearing down on us.

00:15:06.540 I keep hearing that we're killing the earth.

00:15:08.820 How dare you?

00:15:09.880 You have stolen my dreams and my childhood.

00:15:14.480 But wait, I've been a consumer reporter for years.

00:15:18.200 I've covered so many scares.

00:15:20.680 Plague, famine and perpetual war will kill us.

00:15:24.520 We're going to run out of oil.

00:15:26.600 Nuclear power will give us cancer.

00:15:28.940 Killer bees swarm ever closer.

00:15:31.380 Bird flu, flesh eating bacteria.

00:15:33.480 The list of terrible things that we're going to get us is long.

00:15:38.140 And yet we're living longer than ever.

00:15:41.080 And the poor get poorer.

00:15:42.840 Rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

00:15:45.640 The poor get poorer?

00:15:47.440 People keep talking about the evil of income inequality.

00:15:51.660 This is the living room in a $16 million penthouse apartment.

00:15:55.940 It's true that some rich people have gotten absurdly rich.

00:15:59.440 But the other claim that they got rich while the poor people got poorer is just a myth.

00:16:06.640 Today's continuing anti-racism protests include the claim that fossil fuel use is racist

00:16:12.680 because climate change will hurt minorities most.

00:16:16.480 Climate crisis is a racist crisis.

00:16:19.480 Therefore...

00:16:20.040 The fossil fuel industry will have to pay...

00:16:23.640 But I wonder, have these people ever asked themselves...

00:16:27.240 Can you turn your lights on in the morning?

00:16:28.900 I love it.

00:16:32.140 That last point's so good because it speaks to the hypocrisy, right?

00:16:35.820 It's like, these guys, whatever, Jane Fonda, how many times did you have to take an airplane

00:16:40.020 cross-country so she could be seen at a protest and get arrested on camera so she could look like

00:16:44.380 some sort of a climate martyr, right?

00:16:46.900 And ask someone with a little bragging about their electric car,

00:16:50.720 you know, how did that electricity get made?

00:16:53.380 They don't know.

00:16:54.060 But yes, I'm doing that instead of Fox Business, where we met.

00:16:58.760 And it's because my son, who was young and understanding the new internet, said,

00:17:05.980 Dad, you know, only old people watch Fox.

00:17:08.760 And you want to reach younger people whose brains are still open.

00:17:12.680 You don't need a network anymore.

00:17:14.080 With Facebook and YouTube and Twitter and Instagram, you can just reach people.

00:17:19.220 And because my attention span is only five minutes to learn these things, I thought,

00:17:25.520 all right, I'll do five-minute videos.

00:17:28.000 And so we are.

00:17:28.860 And is he producing them?

00:17:30.000 Is Max producing those for you?

00:17:31.580 No.

00:17:32.040 He has his own life.

00:17:33.200 He's a poet elsewhere.

00:17:34.560 But I have five people, and once we're in a little office in New York, now we're remote.

00:17:42.540 And we get about 2.3 million views per video.

00:17:48.120 And it keeps growing.

00:17:50.600 People donate money to support me.

00:17:53.180 And it's great.

00:17:54.060 That really is amazing.

00:17:54.880 Yeah, so I was going to say, how can you make money off of that?

00:17:57.820 Because YouTube ads don't pay very well.

00:18:00.100 No, they don't.

00:18:02.360 They do if I were like an 18-year-old girl talking about cosmetics.

00:18:07.920 It's true.

00:18:09.240 For politics, they don't pay as well.

00:18:12.560 But viewers like what they see and contribute.

00:18:17.160 Yeah, and it keeps you relevant.

00:18:18.880 It keeps you out there.

00:18:19.780 And you really do have a message you're trying to spread.

00:18:23.020 It's not just about, I want to see my face on the screen.

00:18:26.160 It's like, listen to me.

00:18:28.220 We're going in the wrong direction.

00:18:30.100 And I do think if this past year has been anything, it's been anti-libertarian, right?

00:18:35.340 It's been big government seizing control of our lives and all of us submitting.

00:18:40.800 I mean, I do worry that now that we've sort of allowed the government to do this to us,

00:18:47.820 our autonomy is not coming back, not in the way we used to know it.

00:18:51.340 Am I right?

00:18:52.260 I fear you are.

00:18:53.660 I certainly worry about that, too.

00:18:55.320 Thomas Jefferson said, it's the natural progress of things for government to grow and liberty

00:19:02.980 to yield.

00:19:04.880 And that generally is what's happened.

00:19:08.660 And fortunately, the animal spirits of our economy has grown along with it.

00:19:14.280 So government hasn't totally tied up in knots and crushed us.

00:19:19.680 But no country has gotten rid of government regulations once they had them.

00:19:25.840 The Trump administration, he appointed some good people who stopped the growth for a while.

00:19:31.380 I would argue that's why we had the record low unemployment for much of his term before COVID.

00:19:41.240 But that's not natural.

00:19:43.000 You look at Germany and Japan, how they boomed after World War II.

00:19:48.560 Why?

00:19:49.040 Because we bombed the smithereens out of them and they had to start over.

00:19:53.260 All their old trade guilds were gone and they started from scratch.

00:19:58.120 And that allowed them to prosper.

00:19:59.400 But it's not natural.

00:20:01.220 Natural is for people to say, there ought to be a law.

00:20:04.480 I want government to protect me.

00:20:06.420 Just another rule.

00:20:08.180 And so much of what government does is trying to fix the problems caused by those previous rules.

00:20:15.480 And now it's not just them thinking they can seize control of our lives.

00:20:20.460 You know, the masks and the mask is driving me nuts.

00:20:24.080 Are you loving not having the mask on all the time down in Florida?

00:20:27.160 Oh, yes.

00:20:27.980 I just hated the mask.

00:20:29.800 Also, I talked to a guy who said, what's a better way to culture new kinds of the virus or new mutations than breathing in and out for an hour into a mask?

00:20:43.240 It's a petri dish.

00:20:45.060 It's a good point.

00:20:46.900 You know, it's so annoying.

00:20:48.280 And it's like I was at a restaurant.

00:20:51.660 Where was it?

00:20:52.880 It was.

00:20:54.120 I guess it was.

00:20:55.860 You were at a restaurant?

00:20:57.000 You were on board.

00:20:57.500 No, no.

00:20:58.100 I was taking an airplane.

00:20:59.720 I flew across country to do Bill Maher.

00:21:01.780 This is what it was.

00:21:03.160 And on the airplane, like in California, by the way, they make you put your mask on in between bites.

00:21:12.700 They want you to put your mask on.

00:21:15.000 You put your fork down for one second.

00:21:16.740 Somebody's like, oh, your mask.

00:21:18.000 You're like, well, I'm just like chewing.

00:21:19.740 Can I?

00:21:20.040 I'm just going right back in there.

00:21:23.320 And, you know, they said the science said that touching your mask over and over is not exactly sanitary either.

00:21:29.060 So they don't.

00:21:29.680 I just when they've gotten to the point where they're like, put your mask on in between sips of your water.

00:21:34.780 We've gone too far.

00:21:37.700 I agree.

00:21:39.560 And I hope you found it worth doing Bill Maher for that, because I've never liked this show.

00:21:44.840 But I love your the segment where you talked about the schools and at my kids' former school.

00:21:53.560 It's even crazier.

00:21:54.920 They're they're having endless crazy demands.

00:21:59.540 And I talked to one girl who says and I she's 13.

00:22:03.980 Do after all this attention to diversity, do the races mix?

00:22:08.160 No.

00:22:08.420 Well, the white girls sit with the white girls, the black girls wear black scrunchies and sit with each other. 0.99

00:22:18.220 The Asian girls actually wear yellow scrunchies and sit together. 0.89

00:22:23.060 Stop it.

00:22:23.540 No.

00:22:24.300 Seriously?

00:22:25.280 I asked later, were you kidding me?

00:22:27.680 She said, no, dead serious.

00:22:30.660 Unbelievable.

00:22:31.420 This is Dalton?

00:22:32.880 Yeah.

00:22:34.360 Well, Dalton's gone, I mean, off the deep end.

00:22:37.120 That's the one that's getting press here in New York.

00:22:39.740 I mean, I came out about our schools not to bash them because I actually have a lot of love for those schools, but because I have a real problem with what they're doing.

00:22:48.980 And I didn't want to leave the other parents with whom I had been talking and who I knew shared my concerns in the dust as I moved on.

00:22:56.780 They still don't feel like they could speak out.

00:22:58.780 And I had liberated my children from the schools and thought, I'm going to go.

00:23:03.320 I'm going to help them out.

00:23:04.260 I'm going to say what they're what they would like to say, but are too afraid, you know, because everybody's worried about junior getting into the right college.

00:23:10.260 Um, so I was out and free to say it and I did.

00:23:13.900 And I think we're now having a really good conversation about it.

00:23:16.800 But Dalton, when I read that, that, that they were making kids reenact allegedly racist cop shootings, that that race has infected every class and every program, you know, you're, you're doing math.

00:23:32.320 You have to talk about race.

00:23:33.200 You're, you're doing English.

00:23:35.460 You have to talk about race.

00:23:36.280 Everything is seen through the prism of race.

00:23:39.260 I, how on earth could that not be divisive?

00:23:43.300 Exactly.

00:23:43.880 And how did this become such a big thing at the time where after all these years, racism has to be less of a problem than it ever was?

00:23:55.420 I saw you doing, um, was it Larry Elder?

00:23:58.600 You didn't interview with him and you were saying, but it must be a major problem because people are in the streets protesting and people are mobilizing, you know, and they're saying this is a racist country.

00:24:08.420 And he had a, he had a good response to you, which was basically they're being misled.

00:24:14.020 These are young people who are being misled about the state of things.

00:24:18.280 And smart young people, I'm upset and I hate to admit it publicly, but I will, that my brilliant daughter, who is, you would think would be wise and tough.

00:24:29.360 She's a medical doctor working in a prison.

00:24:32.760 She's totally buys into it and is upset that I don't think that I should be paying reparations.

00:24:39.600 Man, but she is young. 1.00

00:24:41.320 And, and also there's a lot of social pressure, uh, ish, but there's a lot of social pressure, pressure on, on young people to go along with this nonsense.

00:24:50.320 I don't know if you've gone into this, um, what's it called?

00:24:53.060 I, I, I only listened to it on YouTube.

00:24:54.680 What do they call it?

00:24:55.200 It's like house party, Steve Krakauer.

00:24:57.000 What's the thing called that everybody's on clubhouse?

00:24:59.340 That's what it is.

00:25:00.180 That's how irrelevant.

00:25:01.340 That's how, that's how out of it we are, John.

00:25:03.760 But I've, I have been invited to join the things I said on the, on one podcast.

00:25:07.140 I haven't been invited and I'm sad.

00:25:08.400 Now I've gotten a couple of invitations.

00:25:09.760 I don't want to.

00:25:11.320 Um, I don't understand why you would put yourself in these rooms with these young social justice activists who just want to beat up on you.

00:25:21.340 I heard Brett Weinstein, he's such a reasonable, rational guys and academic.

00:25:26.080 He just wants to like work ideas through.

00:25:28.680 And they, he was like, I'm an evolutionary biologist.

00:25:31.500 They were like, you mean a eugenicist, which by the way, in case you don't know what that is, it's somebody who wants to like improve the races with quote breeding.

00:25:40.000 It's basically Hitler. 0.90

00:25:41.320 Um, and he's like, no, not a eugenicist. 0.96

00:25:44.960 And they wouldn't let, I mean, the first thing they said to him when he got in there was like, do you admit you're a white supremacist and a transphobe?

00:25:51.240 Or will you affirm that you're an anti-racist?

00:25:53.500 You know, it's like, they wouldn't let him say two things before he answered there.

00:25:58.220 I'm like, why is he doing this?

00:26:00.400 He could just sit in his living room with those self-flagellation beads and get this over with much faster.

00:26:05.920 I would want to do it too.

00:26:07.620 And I, I find it hard to believe that they have these rooms and they invite in someone like him and don't let him speak.

00:26:14.580 I guess if they don't, I wouldn't want to do it.

00:26:17.020 But my hope is always that with reason we can make people see the light.

00:26:23.380 You're wrong.

00:26:24.940 John McWhorter, uh, professor at Columbia, brilliant man.

00:26:29.240 And he's, he does the Glenn show, the Glenn Lowry show with Glenn Lowry on YouTube.

00:26:33.600 And they're, he's a little bit more to the left.

00:26:35.840 Glenn's a little bit more to the right, but they're brilliant.

00:26:38.000 And they talk about race and very frank terms.

00:26:40.560 And he says, you can't, you can't deal with these people.

00:26:44.800 This, these are not reasonable, rational souls who wish to engage in good faith discussion.

00:26:51.460 And he, he basically says, we're going to have to forge on without them because they're not honest brokers.

00:26:55.900 And, and they don't really want to hear what you have to say.

00:26:57.860 They just want you on the knee saying you're sorry. 0.57

00:27:01.320 They feel comfortable calling a black person, a racist or an uncle Tom, I suppose. 0.79

00:27:06.660 Yeah. 0.86

00:27:07.220 That's very disappointing.

00:27:08.720 I hope he's wrong. 0.99

00:27:10.140 People aren't endlessly stupid. 1.00

00:27:11.920 Are they? 1.00

00:27:17.420 If you go in there, I want to hear it.

00:27:20.400 I would like to hear what happens to you.

00:27:23.580 No, no offense.

00:27:24.960 I hope you have a positive experience, but I was listening to it.

00:27:27.700 Cause I heard it on YouTube.

00:27:28.820 Somebody taped it, but on YouTube and I was like, why do people enjoy this?

00:27:33.100 I don't like, I would certainly like to speak to people who want to behave in good faith,

00:27:37.480 but I don't need to, you know, if I just want to feel bad about myself to your point earlier,

00:27:41.200 I'll go to the comments on Twitter.

00:27:42.580 I don't need to have it happen live. 0.84

00:27:44.600 I would enjoy it because the person who comes at me so sure that I'm an evil, rich white guy,

00:27:52.980 because I think the invisible hand should govern what wages are rather than government that I have

00:28:00.600 this fantasy that just by saying, well, gee, if it's too low, what, why do you only want to raise it

00:28:05.880 to $15 an hour?

00:28:07.480 Why are you so cheap?

00:28:08.800 Why not a hundred dollars an hour?

00:28:10.940 I have this belief that at some point the light bulb will go on and they will start to see

00:28:17.280 that interfering with the invisible hand causes other problems.

00:28:22.480 And maybe I'm wrong.

00:28:24.440 I hope not.

00:28:25.480 They look at somebody like you who is unabashedly capitalist, by the way, so am I.

00:28:31.860 And they say, that's your white privilege, buddy.

00:28:35.420 You don't understand how this system, this system, this capitalist system, and they're

00:28:39.140 pro-Marxist, works against people of color, right? 0.76

00:28:44.200 It's rigged in a way that we can't get ahead.

00:28:47.220 And you, Stossel, you're somebody who's benefited from it and it worked out just fine for you.

00:28:52.020 So you're like, yeah, don't touch it.

00:28:53.320 See how well it works out in the end?

00:28:54.660 And I agree.

00:28:56.020 There is white privilege.

00:28:58.280 And we have the advantage of having had a culture that supported white people more than 0.80

00:29:05.560 black people for many years.

00:29:07.040 And I believe in affirmative action and I've practiced it all my life.

00:29:12.460 But I think it's my moral duty to do it in a personal way.

00:29:18.360 And I've sponsored kids to escape the government schools, paid for minority kids. 1.00

00:29:24.660 To go to Catholic schools where they get a better education and mentored a kid a year

00:29:30.200 for the last 25 years.

00:29:31.760 I think we have a moral duty to do our part to help people who don't have the same advantage

00:29:37.240 as white people have.

00:29:38.240 But this current message is crazy.

00:29:40.860 And when government tries to do it, it makes things worse.

00:29:45.380 So what about that, though?

00:29:46.220 Because we heard in the clip you talking about or taking on the issue of income inequality and

00:29:51.840 like the system, this capitalist system, it just makes the rich richer and the poor poorer.

00:29:57.300 And now the rich are circling the wagons to try to defend the system.

00:30:00.700 Just when they would say people of color who are disproportionately, they would say, affected

00:30:06.060 by the system are trying to rise up to upend it.

00:30:09.240 Well, I disagree.

00:30:10.720 I think the rich are not defending the system.

00:30:13.220 The rich are saying the rich don't think.

00:30:16.560 They just want to make money, most of them.

00:30:18.460 And they haven't really thought about the principles that help them make money.

00:30:22.440 A lot of them, like Jeff Bezos, sadly, is saying, yeah, Amazon is going to pay $15 an hour

00:30:28.680 if you just force everyone to pay $15 an hour.

00:30:32.380 And they're better able to automate.

00:30:33.980 And that'll crush their competitors.

00:30:35.700 So what they should be saying is, yes, we got absurdly rich.

00:30:40.540 And when people are free and there's growth, some of us are going to get ridiculously rich.

00:30:45.500 But two points.

00:30:47.040 It's a lie, what Bernie says, about the poor getting poorer.

00:30:50.260 You can look at the government statistics.

00:30:52.080 As the rich got richer, the poor got richer too.

00:30:55.700 Not as much, but the poor are doing better.

00:30:58.520 And if the rich go up a tenfold and a poor person goes up onefold, isn't that better than

00:31:04.060 the poor person staying poor?

00:31:06.040 And it's that greed, that mechanism that makes people innovate.

00:31:09.680 It made Jeff Bezos come up with Amazon, who makes all our lives better by lowering inflation,

00:31:15.800 lowering the cost of products, delivering them during COVID right to our doorstep.

00:31:21.480 Facebook, which makes my life better because I can find friends and arrange my beach volleyball

00:31:27.260 games and connect to people in a thousand ways.

00:31:31.140 So what if he's absurdly rich?

00:31:33.920 But not hurting me, it's helping me.

00:31:35.760 I want to bring you a feature we have here on The Megyn Kelly Show called From the Archives.

00:31:41.800 This is where we direct your ears to a past episode from The Megyn Kelly Show library that

00:31:45.960 you might want to listen to or just might find amusing in this little feature.

00:31:49.020 This one is from December of last year, 2020, and episode 43 with Jerry Springer.

00:31:56.500 Yup.

00:31:57.560 Did you hear this one?

00:31:58.860 There was an incredible, beautiful, inspirational story he told about coming to America and the

00:32:06.620 Statue of Liberty.

00:32:07.980 Listen.

00:32:08.740 In 1949, when I was five, my parents bought five tickets under Queen Mary and came over

00:32:16.600 to America because they had lived through two world wars now and they thought Europe would

00:32:23.700 never be safe.

00:32:24.880 And so they were lucky enough to get a visa to come to America, which was difficult at the

00:32:30.720 time, too.

00:32:31.360 We romanticize it, but the truth is America had pretty restrictive immigration policies

00:32:39.080 back then in terms of, you know, whether it was Jews or from certain countries, et cetera.

00:32:45.920 It was, you know, there was a real isolationist feeling and it was difficult for immigrants,

00:32:52.580 you know, certainly during the war and even afterwards for some time.

00:32:57.580 But anyway, my parents got, and we lived the American dream.

00:33:02.000 In other words, going by the Statue of Liberty.

00:33:04.540 I often tell the story of, we were on the Queen Mary, which is the one memory I have because,

00:33:13.880 you know, for a little boy to be on the Queen Mary, which at the time was, I think, the largest

00:33:18.900 ship in the world, or at least the second largest ship in the world.

00:33:22.280 And, you know, it was like, oh my God, it was a city.

00:33:25.440 And it was a five day journey from England to New York Harbor.

00:33:31.960 You go by the Statue of Liberty.

00:33:34.160 And I, my parents woke me up because they wanted Evelyn and me to go out on deck and see the

00:33:41.120 passing of this, you know, as we sailed by the Statue of Liberty.

00:33:44.820 And all I remember, this was January 24th, 1949, all I remember basically was that it was

00:33:55.440 freezing cold.

00:33:58.440 And there were 2,000 people packed together, all watching the statue.

00:34:05.480 And what I remember being scared is that nobody talked.

00:34:09.660 There was absolute silence.

00:34:11.800 And it scared me as a little kid.

00:34:13.120 I didn't know what this was.

00:34:14.260 All these people standing on a boat in a ship on freezing weather, staring at, staring at

00:34:20.620 something.

00:34:21.220 And it was, and they were silent.

00:34:22.920 In later years, my mom told me about that journey.

00:34:27.520 And she said, I had asked her, what are we looking at?

00:34:32.020 And, you know, what does that statue mean?

00:34:33.920 And she said in the German, she spoke at the time,

00:34:36.940 Ein Tachalus.

00:34:38.100 One day it'll mean everything.

00:34:39.380 One day, everything.

00:34:43.400 Love that.

00:34:44.400 A good message to keep in mind about America and freedom.

00:34:47.940 Back to our interview next.

00:34:55.180 You know, now though, the focus is on any inequality of outcome as somehow an indictment of the system

00:35:03.460 itself.

00:35:04.000 It does make me uncomfortable.

00:35:07.080 It's true.

00:35:08.260 But the solutions are totalitarianism, dictatorship.

00:35:15.060 I saw a piece you did with, I think it was Carol Roth.

00:35:17.580 And you were saying in your piece that, look, people point to these Scandinavian countries as

00:35:23.340 they have more, more of a, uh, equality in income and less of a disparate lifestyle.

00:35:30.500 Okay.

00:35:31.620 So does Afghanistan. 0.89

00:35:33.080 So it's like, it doesn't always work out when you try to control the numbers in favor of everyone

00:35:39.160 will now have a great living wage.

00:35:41.840 Two points.

00:35:43.020 Scandinavia is not socialist.

00:35:44.640 Like people say it is.

00:35:47.080 They did try it about 40, 50 years ago and people were leaving.

00:35:54.040 All the productive companies were leaving.

00:35:56.400 Taxes were high.

00:35:57.840 Growth stopped.

00:35:58.720 They had gone from being the fifth richest country in the world and fall into the 20th.

00:36:03.160 And they gave up on those socialist ideas.

00:36:06.620 They still have a big welfare state and lots of egalitarianism, but what innovation has come

00:36:14.920 out of Scandinavia?

00:36:16.680 Compare that to Silicon Valley.

00:36:19.620 I don't think it's an accident that Facebook and Google and Amazon, they all came out of the

00:36:26.940 Seattle and Silicon Valley, the two metropolitan areas farthest from Washington, D.C.

00:36:34.280 They didn't have lobbyists.

00:36:35.780 They just created stuff and that benefits everybody.

00:36:41.180 Now they crack down on them.

00:36:42.640 Now they're just sucking up to politicians and spending more on lobbyists and Washington 0.87

00:36:49.020 fixers than other companies.

00:36:51.700 Well, what about the argument that, you know, Amazon has gotten too big and Facebook has gotten

00:36:56.000 too big.

00:36:56.700 We're seeing an antitrust case by, I think, 49 out of the 50 state AGs against Facebook

00:37:02.160 saying that right now.

00:37:04.080 And, you know, Amazon, yes, it helped our lives, but some would argue it ruined all the mom

00:37:09.840 and pop shops.

00:37:10.560 You know what?

00:37:11.640 Walk around New York City.

00:37:12.780 It's it's not exactly urban blight, but the mom and pop shops are far fewer than they

00:37:18.300 used to be even 10 or 15 years ago.

00:37:21.480 It's true because people liked buying things at Walmart.

00:37:24.820 The consumer made a choice and the mom and pops that offers real friendly service or specialty

00:37:32.300 goods are still prospering.

00:37:34.520 New businesses are being started.

00:37:36.980 Is Amazon too big?

00:37:38.000 Is Facebook?

00:37:38.820 Is Google?

00:37:39.740 They once said that about A&P, the supermarket, and they were forbidden to run advertising that

00:37:47.120 offered lower prices because they were hurting the mom and pops.

00:37:50.340 These new growing companies have always been resisted.

00:37:54.900 It was I was once told MySpace was a monopoly.

00:37:58.940 Oh, boy.

00:37:59.460 It's gone and replaced by Facebook.

00:38:02.680 And if they are too big, who's going to break them up?

00:38:06.080 Politicians.

00:38:06.920 How well is that going to work out?

00:38:09.020 Already where the politicians are saying, nice little company you got there.

00:38:13.720 It'd be a shame if something would happen to it.

00:38:16.080 You better contribute to my campaign.

00:38:18.820 That's not going to end well.

00:38:20.760 Well, what about the fact that these Silicon Valley companies like, you know, Facebook,

00:38:25.040 Twitter, and so on, have gotten so large that they now can control all of our communication,

00:38:30.720 virtually all of our communication.

00:38:32.360 I know you've been the victim of some of their censorship.

00:38:36.780 They've become Facebook is now our mommy.

00:38:40.180 It's our mommy.

00:38:41.220 It's going to tell us what we can and cannot say as if it's some sort of a fact God.

00:38:46.580 And it's very hard to get those rulings reversed.

00:38:50.960 And it's it's there's almost there's no sort of avenue of appeal.

00:38:55.040 There's not even a really a meaningful competitor that you can go to for a better avenue.

00:38:59.220 I agree.

00:39:01.100 And that is very upsetting to me.

00:39:05.280 Is that beeping noise in my room or your room?

00:39:08.100 That's you.

00:39:08.560 Tell him you can't talk.

00:39:09.520 You're in the middle of a podcast.

00:39:11.980 Pick it up.

00:39:13.320 Pick it up.

00:39:13.900 Let's hear it.

00:39:14.240 I don't know what that is.

00:39:15.220 It's not my phone.

00:39:16.680 It isn't?

00:39:17.720 No, I don't know where that was coming from.

00:39:21.580 It's probably Mark Zuckerberg.

00:39:25.540 There you go. 0.91

00:39:26.580 Well, Zuckerberg is being an evil mommy. 1.00

00:39:29.220 And you're right.

00:39:30.700 And it's very upsetting.

00:39:32.460 I'll give my one example that I did this piece with a very responsible environmentalist who pointed out that the California wildfires were not caused by climate change.

00:39:44.180 Climate change may have had a little effect.

00:39:46.200 But most of it was caused because the politicians didn't clear the underbrush.

00:39:52.320 We have to protect every tree.

00:39:54.880 And that caused these fires to be bigger than ever.

00:39:59.620 It's not disputable, really.

00:40:03.060 It's kind of true.

00:40:04.240 But the main guy I interviewed, Michael Schellenberger, also had written a book called Apocalypse Never that was critical of some of the more apocalyptic theories of the global warming crowd.

00:40:20.360 And Facebook appoints this group climate facts or something to be their police because the government's coming after them for all the nonsense that's on Facebook.

00:40:31.260 So we want responsible scientists to police us.

00:40:35.820 And they pick these activists.

00:40:39.640 And they labeled my story as we're not going to show this to many people because this doesn't tell the whole story.

00:40:49.180 Some of these facts are disputable.

00:40:52.020 First of all, in a five-minute video, how often do you tell the whole story?

00:40:57.620 Never.

00:40:58.380 But they single this out.

00:41:00.040 So I'm basically blocked from Facebook.

00:41:02.100 So I'm curious.

00:41:02.720 Who are these scientists making the decision?

00:41:04.820 We call them up.

00:41:06.220 We ask to interview them.

00:41:08.240 They agree to my surprise and delight.

00:41:11.160 That's unbelievable.

00:41:11.720 And during the interview, they admit, yeah, they haven't even watched my piece.

00:41:18.180 The people who censored it.

00:41:20.220 And they, right.

00:41:22.020 And then they watched it.

00:41:23.000 And they say, oh, no, nothing wrong with your piece.

00:41:25.980 I guess you showed both sides.

00:41:28.200 And I think, good, they're going to lift this restriction now.

00:41:32.460 But no, after they've been embarrassed, the head of their group said, well, there were still things that you omitted in this argument where we said climate change is not the biggest problem facing the world.

00:41:43.200 And so they still won't unblock it.

00:41:45.820 And there's nothing I can do about it.

00:41:47.780 And it makes me furious.

00:41:48.940 But look, Zuckerberg created this company.

00:41:52.860 What right do I have to say he must carry my videos?

00:41:56.520 Now, I can go to Parler or other places or.

00:42:00.440 Well, you used to.

00:42:01.480 It's just sad because then you're talking to the converted. 1.00

00:42:05.220 Right.

00:42:06.180 The thing, too, about cracking down on you is think about the number of videos that Fox News uploads to Facebook on a day to day basis.

00:42:14.200 Reports put together by Trace Gallagher or whomever.

00:42:17.540 They're using a straight news reporter.

00:42:19.200 Do you think Mark Zuckerberg or whatever group he's outsourcing his, quote, fact checking to would agree with the Fox News reporting on some of the stories we've been seeing over the past couple of years?

00:42:30.560 Russiagate, Trump in the election, all of it.

00:42:33.380 I wonder whether they're censoring the Fox News videos the way they're coming after new media.

00:42:38.300 So if you're not part of these organizations, you know, like a CNN, CNN is promoted on their homepage is like a trustworthy source when you're rather on your own, like you're John Stossel, you're you're unprotected.

00:42:50.720 And you think Fox stuff is not being censored?

00:42:54.640 I would be surprised.

00:42:55.720 But you're right.

00:42:56.280 I haven't.

00:42:56.760 You'd think we'd have heard about it if it were.

00:42:59.700 I wonder because Fox News videos like what I learned from my time at Fox is that the Fox fans are the most active on Facebook versus anybody else.

00:43:09.580 They're more active on Facebook than anybody else.

00:43:12.160 The Fox fans love Fox, or at least they used to.

00:43:14.480 I don't know about now.

00:43:16.000 And they would be very much engaged.

00:43:19.060 So I do think Facebook would be a little bit more reticent to start interfering with the Fox News videos than anyone else's.

00:43:26.740 Now, that doesn't mean conservative media outside of Fox gets such a pass.

00:43:31.260 You know, I virtually every conservative person I know who's got a podcast or YouTube talks about having been censored or, you know, caught up in some sort of weird challenge that didn't bear out.

00:43:41.400 We just saw it happen to Stephen Crowder recently.

00:43:43.060 We had Tim Pool on who was talking about it happening to him.

00:43:46.520 I don't know.

00:43:47.100 I do think it's a problem because it's gotten to the point now where they control virtually all of this environment.

00:43:54.140 There really aren't right now meaningful alternatives.

00:43:57.620 And so it does result in real censorship of ideas, which is dangerous.

00:44:03.340 I totally agree.

00:44:04.460 I just don't know that breaking them up is the answer.

00:44:07.000 But they do own not just Facebook, but Instagram.

00:44:10.900 YouTube is other people, is Google.

00:44:14.200 And Twitter is another company.

00:44:16.860 But they all got together to stop the Hunter Biden stuff before the election.

00:44:23.480 That's creepy and long.

00:44:27.220 I just don't know what we can do about it.

00:44:31.940 But the other problem, here's just one other thought.

00:44:34.980 Why does it happen?

00:44:35.820 Why does it happen?

00:44:37.000 My feeling is because if you're a libertarian, you're a conservative, you want to go experience life, you go build things, you go mind your own business.

00:44:47.440 If you want to sit in a windowless room and critique other people's work, or if you want to write for a living, you tend to lean left.

00:44:58.000 And those are the people who sign up to be the censors at Twitter and Facebook and Google.

00:45:02.960 And they gradually try to suffocate people and they gradually try to suffocate ideas they don't like.

00:45:08.580 What a miserable job.

00:45:09.620 Can you imagine signing up for that as your life?

00:45:12.800 And it is a miserable job they've written about how people burn out.

00:45:17.220 Because there's a lot of genuine ugliness that deserves to be taken off.

00:45:21.680 There is child molestation.

00:45:23.980 There are snuff films that YouTube tries to keep off.

00:45:27.000 There are ISIS videos and how to make a bomb.

00:45:29.400 I mean, yes, there are definitely things that need to come down.

00:45:32.160 And if you're watching that stuff all day, that has to do bad things to your brain.

00:45:36.220 Well, and that's how you get to the point where when somebody calls to say, do you admit it's fair?

00:45:40.360 And they say, yeah, actually, I do see it's fair.

00:45:42.320 And then somebody slaps their wrist.

00:45:44.100 They're so quick to say, OK, never mind.

00:45:45.700 I'll just I'll take it.

00:45:46.740 Well, I take it back.

00:45:48.080 Everything's unfair.

00:45:48.760 That doesn't agree with my worldview.

00:45:49.900 That's that's sort of where we are.

00:45:52.240 So let's talk about it in the larger scape of media, because you really are, you know, you're a golden journalist for 30 years at ABC and had an amazing career there.

00:46:06.680 We're co-host of 2020, which was their flagship show in the primetime with Barbara Walters and doing your doing this kind of stuff for a long time. 0.97

00:46:16.220 You know, you always had a skepticism about government and your reporting and you were that consumer guy who was like, no, that's bullshit, too.

00:46:23.760 So what how do you see the media landscapes changes from the time you are at that anchor desk to right now, where it seems to me it's incredibly hard to find objective reporting. 0.58

00:46:36.060 Virtually everybody is opinion, either openly or disguising it as, quote, objective journalism.

00:46:42.120 And it's you have to work so hard to get truth, to get facts.

00:46:47.460 I think we had to work hard to get facts then.

00:46:50.200 It was less overtly leftist, but it all leaned left.

00:46:55.840 And I was one of them.

00:46:57.600 I came out of Princeton being taught that there are problems and government can fix them.

00:47:03.060 And I believed and I won 19 Emmys as a consumer reporter bashing capitalism and felt very self-righteous calling for government to create departments of consumer affairs, which they did.

00:47:18.360 And we've got to stop these cheaters.

00:47:21.500 And it took me many years of watching those rules fail.

00:47:24.640 One example is we take a TV into a bunch of repair shops or a car, have it repaired with just a loose part.

00:47:32.640 And most would say, oh, just a loose part.

00:47:34.980 No charge.

00:47:35.860 A couple would say, I have to keep it over the weekend and come back.

00:47:39.540 They charge you hundreds of dollars.

00:47:41.520 I would then return and say, would you ever cheat people like this?

00:47:46.620 Oh, no, never.

00:47:47.940 Oh, yeah.

00:47:48.460 Watch this.

00:47:49.340 And I had the hidden camera footage.

00:47:51.120 And it was great dramatic television and the politicians would call up and say, that was great.

00:47:58.920 We're going to pass a law to address this.

00:48:01.260 And young John Stossel was excited.

00:48:03.220 Oh, these politicians are paying attention to me and passing laws.

00:48:07.760 And I loved it for years.

00:48:09.620 But then I would do the story again and get the same result.

00:48:14.120 Most people are honest.

00:48:16.000 Invisible Hand guides that because they want repeat business.

00:48:19.040 And a few cheat.

00:48:21.900 So then what was the Department of Consumer Affairs doing?

00:48:24.480 We went there and they had a dreary office with people filling out forms.

00:48:28.700 They were requiring licenses for car repair shops or TV repair shops.

00:48:35.780 And people like that.

00:48:37.220 We license dogs.

00:48:38.340 We license drivers.

00:48:39.560 We think it makes us safer.

00:48:41.300 But what it really means is that you just have to fill out some forms.

00:48:44.580 If you're an immigrant who doesn't speak English, maybe you go underground, risk your business being taken by the police.

00:48:52.280 Everybody has to pay more money.

00:48:54.480 And it doesn't prove that you're honest, that you take a test to show you know something.

00:49:00.160 It just slows things down.

00:49:03.020 And I saw this happen again and again.

00:49:05.020 And I started reading more.

00:49:06.300 I didn't like the conservative press because they seemed to want to go to war with every country.

00:49:12.660 And they wanted to police my bedroom and tell me who I can have sex with or what recreational drugs I could put in my body.

00:49:20.980 And I didn't like that.

00:49:22.580 And I discovered Reason Magazine.

00:49:24.900 I became a libertarian.

00:49:26.520 And suddenly my friends in the media didn't like me as much anymore.

00:49:31.660 And it was, what's wrong with Sassel?

00:49:35.220 And I stopped winning Emmy Awards.

00:49:38.140 Haven't won one since.

00:49:39.780 Once I started criticizing government, it was like I was a conservative.

00:49:45.100 What, you're against gun regulation?

00:49:48.000 I said, well, not at first.

00:49:50.000 But once I researched it, I showed in most of the country you can carry a gun around.

00:49:56.480 There's not more crime there.

00:49:57.700 And the bad guys are less likely to come into your house if you think you have a gun.

00:50:02.140 And there are two sides for this story.

00:50:04.320 And Peter Jennings, the late Peter Jennings, when he saw me in the hall at that point, would suddenly turn the other way.

00:50:10.740 I was a pariah.

00:50:12.680 Really?

00:50:14.400 Then Fox came and CNN.

00:50:17.980 And suddenly people who wanted serious news didn't want to watch 2020 as much anymore.

00:50:23.580 And so things split into opinionated camps.

00:50:30.420 And what puzzled me is that even at Fox, I don't know if this was true for you, people didn't really want to fight.

00:50:37.920 And the audience doesn't like it.

00:50:39.460 Like, I would go on Hannity or O'Reilly and argue for legal drugs.

00:50:44.040 And they would yell at me.

00:50:45.340 And I would do my best to defend my belief that once you're an adult, you ought to be free to poison yourself if you wish.

00:50:54.620 And like prohibition, the drug law causes more problems than the drugs.

00:50:59.520 But after doing it once, they didn't want to fight.

00:51:02.240 They wanted people coming on the shows who agree with them.

00:51:04.920 But in my videos, I always try to go to the other side and get their arguments.

00:51:10.900 And I don't do cheap shots.

00:51:12.720 We give them their best point, though I cut them down, put out the blather.

00:51:17.840 And I always did that in my consumer reporting.

00:51:20.640 I would go to the business and I would say, why are you a cheater?

00:51:24.220 Here's the video proof.

00:51:25.660 And they would argue.

00:51:27.800 You'd get two sides.

00:51:29.500 But you don't see much of that anymore.

00:51:31.960 I would say my own experience at Fox was on O'Reilly.

00:51:35.660 He did like to fight.

00:51:37.560 I mean, I fought with him more than I agreed with him.

00:51:40.340 And we had great battles over the law, which is one of the reasons I I became well known, you know, because of the appearances I used to do on his show, which started off at one a week and then went to twice a week.

00:51:52.540 And nine times out of ten, you know, we were disagreeing because Bill acted like a lawyer and wasn't and was really just more of a populist, which doesn't work when it comes to the law.

00:52:02.600 Right.

00:52:02.820 Like the law is the law.

00:52:04.020 You don't just get to rule the way that would be popular.

00:52:08.080 And that worked.

00:52:09.000 But I think you're right.

00:52:09.860 Like generally, Fox, like most cable properties, are about reinforcing people's existing worldviews.

00:52:15.780 And it's not educational.

00:52:17.440 It's really not.

00:52:18.100 Maybe may give you sort of armor or ammunition, I guess, to use against the other side if you're going to have an argument at Thanksgiving.

00:52:26.520 But the best arguers know the other side's case forward and backward.

00:52:31.020 You know, so that's why it's like I agree with you.

00:52:32.980 It's so much better.

00:52:33.420 That's one of the things I like about your reporting is and as you say, you take the other side's best point.

00:52:38.180 It's not some straw man.

00:52:39.540 It's not some weakling making, you know, an easy that's an easy argument to dismiss.

00:52:44.440 You've got to really wrestle with it.

00:52:46.240 And if you have the better argument, you can wrestle with it.

00:52:48.540 You can actually persuade people.

00:52:50.800 But, yeah, we're much more in our rabbit holes now.

00:52:53.180 Not not really interested in getting out.

00:52:56.660 They used to have point counterpoint debates.

00:52:59.660 It is difficult on cable because they degenerated into screaming matches. 0.95

00:53:04.940 I have the advantage in that I edit.

00:53:08.020 And if the teacher's union guy wants to go on forever about how unions are always great, I can just let him do it, knowing I can cut out most of it later and you don't get the screaming.

00:53:22.480 But live, you can't do that.

00:53:24.460 You, by the way, I never knew this and just in preparing for this interview, because I was going back through some of your old greatest hits.

00:53:32.660 I did not know.

00:53:33.960 Maybe you told me and I forgot, but I did not know about the WWE guy who assaulted you on camera. 0.99

00:53:41.280 Well, it speaks well for you that you don't pay attention to that garbage. 0.90

00:53:46.100 But, yes, sadly, maybe my most viewed YouTube video is me being beaten up. 0.95

00:53:53.660 I was doing a 2020 video.

00:53:56.420 I was a high school wrestler.

00:53:57.920 I was always annoyed that pro wrestling was fake and that they pretend that it wasn't and that some kids thought it was real.

00:54:06.500 And so we searched for a long time until we could find one of their performers who was willing to talk about it.

00:54:15.440 And we did that.

00:54:16.440 And to set up, again, getting both sides, we went to the WWE and said, you have a spokesperson who wants to argue with me when I say this is fake?

00:54:28.240 And Vince McMahon brought out this guy, David Schultz, 6'8", 280 pounds.

00:54:36.340 I think he was high on speed.

00:54:38.460 His tag team partner later told me he did that to get psyched for his performances.

00:54:44.180 And he said, you think this is fake?

00:54:46.280 Well, you think this is fake?

00:54:47.580 Whack! 1.00

00:54:48.600 Hit me on the side of the head with an open hand, which can burst your eardrums. 0.99

00:54:54.240 Didn't burst mine. 0.99

00:54:55.200 And then I stupidly got up and he knocked me down again. 0.71

00:54:59.100 So then I just crawled off. 0.98

00:55:01.000 It was a brutal assault.

00:55:03.300 I was like, how badly could he have hurt?

00:55:05.500 Like, who would hurt the news anchor from ABC coming over, you know, on camera?

00:55:10.680 But it was bad.

00:55:11.920 He really, he did hurt you.

00:55:14.220 And you wound up suing him and you won.

00:55:19.240 There was a settlement that was pretty decent.

00:55:21.800 And then I read that you regretted doing that.

00:55:24.020 Is it just your libertarian, you know, you probably don't like lawsuits, but like when

00:55:29.280 you get hurt by somebody, they're not always a bad idea.

00:55:33.160 I don't regret doing it.

00:55:34.280 I think they should be taught they can't go having reporters beaten up.

00:55:38.000 And the wrestler claimed that Vince McMahon had told him to do it.

00:55:44.460 I don't know if that's true, but I thought they should be discouraged from beating people

00:55:49.480 up.

00:55:49.740 Uh, I gave the money to charity.

00:55:52.240 Um, the odd part where I, maybe it's been spun that I regret it is an odd thing happened.

00:55:57.880 It's part of a lawsuit.

00:55:59.660 They send you to their doctor.

00:56:01.220 Some guy at Columbia university who's without examining me said, I think this is a gerosomatic 1.00

00:56:07.500 illness.

00:56:08.220 Oh, I'm sorry.

00:56:08.660 I, my symptom was ear pain when there was loud noises.

00:56:11.940 Like my young daughter crying, it really hurt and it made it difficult for me.

00:56:19.020 Um, I said, what, what do you, this is a gerosomatic illness. 0.97

00:56:24.160 What's that?

00:56:25.520 Well, you're holding onto your pain.

00:56:28.320 Well, what does it mean to you?

00:56:29.620 You're a lawyer.

00:56:30.620 You're holding onto your pain because you're involved in a lawsuit.

00:56:34.540 Oh, wow.

00:56:35.260 First of all, I did not do personal injury.

00:56:37.060 That was definitely not my beat, but second of all, Oh, that's so offensive, right?

00:56:42.440 Like it's spoken like somebody who doesn't know you at all, by the way.

00:56:45.820 But he was right.

00:56:47.320 It's amazing.

00:56:48.660 At, because I was angry and I'm fighting this lawsuit and I'm feeling this pain and finally

00:56:56.500 it's all settled.

00:56:57.480 It goes away.

00:56:58.640 And the pain gradually also went away.

00:57:02.140 Now, is that just coincidence or time?

00:57:05.060 Maybe, but watching the personal injury business, I do believe there are all kinds of people

00:57:10.540 with back pain and neck spasms who have gerosomatic illnesses.

00:57:15.860 The pain stays because they're involved in this horrible fight.

00:57:20.260 So it's not that you, I misunderstood that you were, it was like faking it.

00:57:25.580 It's not faking it.

00:57:26.700 It's still there, but you're making it still be there.

00:57:29.580 Or like, like the actual physical pain is still there, but it's more psychosomatic.

00:57:33.200 In other words, like you've convinced yourself it's there because it kind of needs to be

00:57:36.640 there for you to win this case.

00:57:38.060 Something like that.

00:57:39.120 I don't presume to understand it, but yes, I wasn't faking it.

00:57:43.400 I had the pain.

00:57:45.120 Unlike the wrestlers.

00:57:46.400 Right.

00:57:46.740 So a lot of them hurt themselves.

00:57:49.280 It isn't that their performance is dangerous work.

00:57:52.780 Like at the time they were hiding razor blades in their mouths so they could cut themselves

00:57:59.200 on the forehead usually because then, because the head bleeds easily and then it would drip

00:58:05.060 down their face and they would look scary and bloody.

00:58:08.640 This I did not know.

00:58:09.900 So you, things you don't need to know, ABC getting beat, getting beaten up, getting protested

00:58:16.280 by the teachers, co-anchoring with Barbara and then Elizabeth Vargas later.

00:58:20.600 And, you know, at the, at the height of your career.

00:58:23.720 And I have an interesting question, I think for you, just cause I just, just knowing you,

00:58:29.080 were you happy?

00:58:30.660 Was that, was that a happy time for you?

00:58:33.080 No, because nobody liked my libertarian stuff.

00:58:39.640 I was an outcast.

00:58:41.200 But I mean, are you like, you just lean toward not, not pessimistic, but you're not somebody

00:58:47.600 who's skipping into the room laughing with a big smile.

00:58:51.440 So what would you say was your happiest time in life so far?

00:58:56.340 Watching my children prosper, meeting, falling in love with my wife, playing beach volleyball.

00:59:03.080 Um, I'm certainly not work.

00:59:06.540 I'm a stutterer.

00:59:07.580 I went in the television.

00:59:08.860 I would go on TV scared until I mastered my speech every day.

00:59:14.360 But you're still like, do you ever still stutter?

00:59:16.720 You're picking out all my fault, my worst fault.

00:59:18.640 I know you, you assume the risk by coming on with somebody who actually knows you pretty

00:59:22.860 well, I think, but, but loves you.

00:59:25.240 I mean, it's, it's, I love what I, what I see.

00:59:27.560 And I love Ellen, like you do too.

00:59:29.160 I think you guys, one thing that's interesting about the two of you is,

00:59:32.420 you seem very different, you know?

00:59:34.900 Yeah.

00:59:35.040 She's more liberal and you're a libertarian.

00:59:37.720 She's, I think she's a, forgive me, but she's an intellectual.

00:59:42.260 I mean, she's just so freaking smart. 0.96

00:59:43.980 You're smart too, but you're more man of the people smart, I think.

00:59:47.060 And, um, she's more like kind of on you about your behavior and you don't really seem to 0.99

00:59:52.500 give a shit what anybody thinks. 0.97

00:59:53.600 Uh, these are just my armchair observations of the two of you, but I think it's sort of 0.99

00:59:58.840 your mutual sense of humor and spark, like intellectual spark.

01:00:03.720 That's my opinion.

01:00:04.680 Makes it work.

01:00:05.740 Do you think I have it right?

01:00:07.000 Yes.

01:00:07.240 Dr. Kelly, very astute analysis there.

01:00:11.060 The politics doesn't make it easy, but we have other things that keep us going.

01:00:15.940 And I should point out that, well, I'm in Florida.

01:00:18.440 But she's not, but that's just her 10 days.

01:00:22.140 Well, this isn't turning into a, like a Woody Mia thing where you're going to have separate

01:00:25.060 apartments across the park, is it?

01:00:27.680 I hope not.

01:00:29.780 Good.

01:00:30.220 Well, I'm going to go see her now that I know she's alone.

01:00:32.180 Not that I ever minded seeing you.

01:00:35.040 I just, Ellen is the reason I wound up hooking up with my therapist. 0.53

01:00:39.460 I would, I actually, I don't know if I've told this story, but we, Doug and I were over

01:00:43.500 at your apartment and it was right after Yardley was born, our second child.

01:00:47.420 And I was having these nonstop thoughts of death, my own.

01:00:52.700 I was like, for the first time, I was walking around the New York City streets thinking that

01:00:56.360 scaffolding is going to fall on my head and I'm going to die.

01:00:58.320 Or somebody's air conditioning unit is going to fall out of the window and I'm going to

01:01:01.040 go, I'm going to get hit by a bus and I won't be paying attention.

01:01:04.220 And that's unlike-

01:01:04.800 You told me you were afraid of the B elevator at Fox.

01:01:07.920 Well, that thing was unreliable.

01:01:10.440 Even Abby shaking her head.

01:01:11.940 That was not a safe box to get into.

01:01:15.360 Um, so she said, and you know, she's a brilliant psychiatrist said, you should consider seeing

01:01:22.400 somebody.

01:01:22.900 And I was like, you know what?

01:01:23.620 Maybe you're right.

01:01:24.360 Cause I don't really want to walk around like this.

01:01:26.080 Hook me up with my therapist who is totally brilliant and has been such an important part 0.82

01:01:31.140 of my life, especially all the shit that's gone down since then and the 11 years thereafter. 0.82

01:01:35.380 And, and it is great to arm yourself with some psychological tools. 0.98

01:01:39.640 You know, it's like bad stuff happens to you.

01:01:42.500 And I don't think some people get lucky enough to come into the world with just a natural

01:01:46.700 ability to deal with it.

01:01:47.840 But if you're not one of those people, I have found it very helpful to have somebody just

01:01:53.120 to arm me with some tools when certain old habits creep up, you know, like obsessive

01:01:57.520 thinking over things that are not good for you.

01:01:59.720 Um, anyway, so it's kind of thanks to you and Ellen that my life was much better over

01:02:05.720 the past 10 years than it otherwise would have been.

01:02:08.720 Well, I'm so glad it is.

01:02:10.240 And I'm glad you reveal it on your podcast because talk therapy does help people.

01:02:17.160 Well, and, and you've done your own sort of approach to this as well.

01:02:20.500 You have another layer, which is your men's group, right?

01:02:23.460 Can you tell us what that is about?

01:02:25.300 Well, yeah, I did a 2020 story where it was at the time where Peter Jennings was doing

01:02:31.740 stories about how women get screwed in divorces because the men steal the money, as we sometimes

01:02:37.460 do. 0.96

01:02:37.920 Men are often better with the financial tricks.

01:02:40.600 But then he said, but after the divorce, the people who do better are the women. 0.96

01:02:44.800 The men more often get depressed, get fat, kill themselves.

01:02:49.040 Why this is because the women have on average, six friends with whom they share intimate stuff 0.91

01:02:56.060 with.

01:02:56.640 And the men on average has one, and it's usually the ex-wife. 0.82

01:03:01.000 Um, it sank in that I, my male friendships were sports.

01:03:08.100 They were very shallow.

01:03:09.200 We didn't talk about personal feelings.

01:03:11.580 And I had a friend who's a therapist.

01:03:14.380 We started the men's group and meeting once a week to talk about personal stuff.

01:03:20.000 And I never want to go, but I'm always glad when I do.

01:03:24.500 And it makes me connect more than I would otherwise.

01:03:29.260 Why do you never want to go?

01:03:30.600 I don't have anything to say.

01:03:32.520 What am I going to talk about?

01:03:34.840 I'm not that social.

01:03:36.280 I'm perfectly happy to sit in the corner and read a book.

01:03:39.760 I can relate to that.

01:03:41.060 Doug and I are both sort of homebodies and are perfectly happy to, you know, sit by

01:03:45.080 ourselves, but I can relate.

01:03:47.080 And once you get yourself up and get yourself out for the right people, it does pay off.

01:03:51.580 And I, you don't, I'll cut this part if you don't want to tell this story, but can I at

01:03:56.880 least ask you if you on this, on this subject, want to tell the story about your run in with

01:04:02.820 Jane Pauley?

01:04:06.760 Oh God, I forgot about that whole thing.

01:04:09.360 And I remember it.

01:04:10.840 Well, as I recall, it wasn't a run in with Pauley.

01:04:14.140 It was with her husband, Gary Trudeau, who I sat next to at some lunch.

01:04:18.780 And I happen to always read the comics when I'm sitting in the corner alone reading what

01:04:24.400 includes the comic.

01:04:25.620 And really admired Doonesbury, though I didn't agree with his politics.

01:04:31.640 And we had a nice time.

01:04:33.620 And I've sent him an email inviting him to dinner at our house along with Hugh and Doug.

01:04:41.000 And as I recall, he sent an email to Jane saying, I may have been too friendly with this guy

01:04:52.120 that he thinks he can invite us to dinner and by mistake sent it to me.

01:04:57.680 And I replied saying, well, look, these people are coming.

01:05:00.800 You're still welcome.

01:05:01.540 And he said, no, never mind.

01:05:04.700 So is that how you would have told the story?

01:05:06.960 You would have done a better job.

01:05:08.760 No, that's what I remember.

01:05:09.800 I may have been too friendly with him.

01:05:12.640 But the viewer should know that Jane Pauley, and she's come out with this, has got, she's

01:05:20.720 got some issues like social, she's, I don't know if she's agoraphobic, but she's very socially

01:05:26.140 reclusive.

01:05:27.640 And so it wasn't, it wasn't like he hated you.

01:05:30.960 He had recognized that they're not particularly social.

01:05:34.340 And he'd been too social in a way where you extended this invitation that now put him in

01:05:38.800 an awkward position.

01:05:39.480 And then it got 10 times more awkward and he realized he sent it to you.

01:05:43.600 No, got to be careful with emails.

01:05:47.140 Now you got to be careful with Zoom.

01:05:49.800 Oh my God.

01:05:50.960 Tell it to Jeffrey Toobin.

01:05:53.500 Right.

01:05:55.320 I honestly, I'm still not over it.

01:05:57.640 And he's still, he's still not back on CNN, right?

01:05:59.800 Do you think he's ever going to come back?

01:06:01.900 No, I think you can come back from a lot.

01:06:05.380 I don't think you can come back from that.

01:06:09.820 I'm sorry, still not.

01:06:11.220 I'm still not over it.

01:06:12.120 And to me, it speaks to just such a difference.

01:06:14.040 I realize 99% of men would not do this.

01:06:16.660 It's not necessarily a male, female thing.

01:06:18.900 But there is not a woman on earth who would have done that.

01:06:21.580 There's not a woman on earth who would have taken the risk that he took.

01:06:24.920 And the explanation makes my point.

01:06:28.220 His point was, I thought I had muted it.

01:06:31.060 He didn't even think he had disconnected.

01:06:33.360 He knew he was still a live wire and he still did what he did.

01:06:38.680 Well, men and women are different. 0.98

01:06:40.140 And so I think men are more eager to masturbate and would be more likely to do this. 0.86

01:06:46.160 But like, while you're still connected to not just to your work colleagues, but like a bunch of randos who were on the Zoom call to help assist the election night coverage that they were planning. 0.98

01:06:56.080 I mean, like, talk about reckless.

01:06:59.820 Totally.

01:07:00.600 And who knows?

01:07:01.700 Why would that get you off at the time?

01:07:04.340 But look.

01:07:04.920 Because there's something wrong with Jeffrey.

01:07:06.120 We men are weird.

01:07:07.820 This we know. 0.98

01:07:08.840 Women are weird in different ways. 1.00

01:07:11.380 Well, that's true, too.

01:07:12.740 I mean, I think you're right, though, on the subject of women and their friends, because I just look around and like my women friends prioritize getting together.

01:07:22.740 I'm, as I said, a little bit more like you.

01:07:25.640 You know, I'm a little, I don't know, socially reticent.

01:07:29.200 And but my women friends are all very good about being like, we're going out to dinner. 1.00

01:07:33.760 Let's go like another dinner.

01:07:35.560 And then another group is like, and now we are going out to dinner.

01:07:38.440 And I've learned that saying yes leads to good things.

01:07:41.900 Saying no doesn't.

01:07:44.080 Saying no leads to more of the same.

01:07:45.620 And saying yes, taking risks.

01:07:47.820 Almost every single time you wind up being glad you did it.

01:07:51.440 I agree.

01:07:52.320 Feel the same way.

01:07:53.180 And I rarely want to go.

01:07:54.860 And the other difference is when you go there, the women will say, how is your mom? 0.97

01:07:59.260 Or how is this person in your family who was sick?

01:08:02.020 And the guys will say, what's up?

01:08:05.560 How about the Mets?

01:08:07.600 It's a different nature of a conversation.

01:08:09.980 Yeah.

01:08:10.120 I have a new men's group group.

01:08:11.960 New men's group now.

01:08:13.520 And we do it by Zoom because of COVID.

01:08:15.760 People are around the country.

01:08:17.560 And they constantly want to talk about politics or sports.

01:08:21.820 And I keep having to say, no, the purpose of this group is to keep it personal.

01:08:27.980 Say, you want to talk about how you feel about the politics or the sports?

01:08:32.060 Fine.

01:08:32.580 But don't tell me.

01:08:34.580 Let's not speculate on the electoral college.

01:08:37.620 Who cares?

01:08:39.060 Oh, I like that.

01:08:40.240 So you have to talk about your marriage or your kids or yourself or your health or your

01:08:44.600 insecurities, what have you.

01:08:46.660 Yes.

01:08:47.320 See, this is one of the reasons I like YPO, right?

01:08:50.240 We talked about this once before.

01:08:51.580 Yes.

01:08:51.740 Yes, exactly.

01:08:52.520 Doug used to be in that.

01:08:53.880 And it stands for Young Presidents Organization.

01:08:56.060 Doug was in it when he was running his company.

01:08:58.140 And it's like a support group for young CEOs who are trying to figure out how to run their

01:09:03.840 businesses.

01:09:04.700 And they have this thing called Forum where you meet with like four or five men.

01:09:09.500 And it could be women, but it tends to be mostly men.

01:09:11.720 And they talk about, yes, their businesses.

01:09:15.020 But each forum, at least in Doug's, they go around the table.

01:09:18.780 And the one guy who was, quote, on that week would do it like a presentation of something

01:09:25.000 that was going on.

01:09:25.840 And it could be he'd show his balance sheet and have it blown up and everybody would comment

01:09:30.920 on how he's doing or what he can do to fix these problems.

01:09:33.560 Really smart minds.

01:09:35.020 But it could be like, I remember one guy did a whole presentation on his marriage and like

01:09:40.980 the problems they were having, the risks he was taking, like all that stuff.

01:09:46.140 And they helped him.

01:09:47.620 I'm like, this is amazing, especially for men who are told in this forum, you must do

01:09:52.900 this.

01:09:53.580 You're on and you must discuss the biggest problem you're facing right now.

01:09:58.620 It's good.

01:09:59.080 I'm surprised Forum hasn't spread further.

01:10:02.860 Well, I think it's in the nature of what we're talking about, right?

01:10:04.920 Which is like a lot of men won't even consider this unless they have to.

01:10:09.600 So you join Young Presidents Organization.

01:10:12.160 You think you're going to get business assistance from other CEOs.

01:10:14.540 That sounds like a smart CEO thing to do.

01:10:17.920 And then suddenly they're like, what's going on with your marriage?

01:10:20.240 Who was that woman I saw you with? 1.00

01:10:21.600 And you're like, whoa.

01:10:22.800 But then, you know, you grow to trust these guys.

01:10:25.080 They take trips together.

01:10:26.420 And before you know it, you're talking like the women do. 0.99

01:10:29.600 And it's wonderful.

01:10:30.880 It's wonderful.

01:10:31.580 And I think I was introduced to it.

01:10:34.220 I was making a paid speak somewhere.

01:10:36.400 And I was in the gym.

01:10:38.060 And there were some other guys.

01:10:39.660 And they were talking about personal stuff.

01:10:43.500 And I asked them about it.

01:10:45.480 And they were all forum members.

01:10:47.760 And it had lifted their lives.

01:10:50.300 Now, I will say, however, that if Stossel invites you over and you have a meaningful conversation started by Ellen, in which he will offer meaningful thoughts as well, as you heard, don't stay too long.

01:11:04.360 And by that, I mean, like past 10.

01:11:06.380 Would you would you care to tell the audience what you do when you are ready for the evening to be over and you have perfectly nice guests sitting at your dining room table?

01:11:13.320 Well, I don't understand what's wrong with this and why you introduced this as this warning.

01:11:18.260 But yes, I do get restless.

01:11:21.520 I get butt rot, as Fred put it.

01:11:25.020 And I say, look, you want to keep talking here?

01:11:27.400 Great.

01:11:27.800 I'm going to bed.

01:11:30.980 And I do.

01:11:32.420 It's the hard rap.

01:11:34.100 He will get up and just leave.

01:11:38.680 What does Ellen think of this? 1.00

01:11:40.740 Mixed feelings.

01:11:43.320 She doesn't like it, but she'd rather have me gone than have me looking tired and miserable.

01:11:52.060 I guess it depends on the quality of the guests, too.

01:11:55.180 But I resent this on her behalf because Doug has his own version of this.

01:11:59.700 I think he becomes the you that she's trying to avoid when we are out to dinner or at an event where he doesn't like the other people.

01:12:08.480 I'm dead.

01:12:09.300 I'm dead like I am dead because Doug has no ability to hide his feelings, none.

01:12:15.020 And so he will just completely shut down.

01:12:17.400 He will stop talking.

01:12:19.300 Sometimes he will just turn his chair like he's not trying to be rude.

01:12:22.360 He just understands he shouldn't say anything because it's going to betray his true feelings about these people.

01:12:27.620 And I always joke.

01:12:29.300 I think he's the perfect amount of aloof.

01:12:31.160 I think that's kind of what's hot about him, you know, like you never know that 13 years of marriage, I'm still guessing.

01:12:36.080 But I say to people who I know are sometimes wondering whether Doug likes them or not.

01:12:41.840 If you're wondering, it's good.

01:12:44.320 You're it's a pot.

01:12:44.980 It's a plus not to worry it because if he didn't like you, you'd know.

01:12:49.300 A hard rap is probably better. 0.99

01:12:53.880 You're a hypocrite because you said you don't like it. 0.98

01:12:56.540 And yet, wouldn't you rather have him leave than insult the friends by just turning his chair? 1.00

01:13:03.760 And you once told me that you liked it.

01:13:06.280 And you even said to guests, we're calling it a stossel time now or something.

01:13:11.020 I like what you do.

01:13:12.800 No, I like what you do because I would like to do it.

01:13:15.800 I feel envious. 0.99

01:13:16.800 I don't have the balls to do it. 0.98

01:13:18.100 I just I couldn't do it. 0.97

01:13:19.540 I have I would love to say to somebody, get out.

01:13:22.960 It's over.

01:13:23.760 I enjoyed you for those three hours, but it's done.

01:13:26.880 I can do it better.

01:13:28.180 Like I will tell you this.

01:13:30.100 I've taken this from you, like a little bit of the radical honesty of like, no, sometimes people will say, oh, you know, we're going to have this great thing.

01:13:37.180 We're going to get together and we're going to do like a, you know, whiskey tasting.

01:13:40.360 And I'll say, oh, I would totally do it, but I don't want to.

01:13:44.460 That is a stossel child.

01:13:48.760 That sort of came from you.

01:13:50.820 So I don't mind your approach.

01:13:52.740 I just I'm envious because I don't have the guts to pull it off myself.

01:13:56.240 I love that.

01:13:57.740 I usually say I would love to, but I'd rather stick needles in my eye.

01:14:03.600 Yeah.

01:14:03.780 Did it take years of practice?

01:14:05.060 Were you always this way?

01:14:06.240 I used to just suffer until I thought, what, why suffer?

01:14:11.120 This is supposed to be pleasurable.

01:14:12.960 I'm not enjoying it.

01:14:14.260 And my sleepiness is not making the party better.

01:14:18.160 And I'm in my own house.

01:14:19.500 I would love to be horizontally better.

01:14:22.460 You have to suffer because politeness.

01:14:26.320 That's why the rest of us do it.

01:14:28.460 Well, I'm 73 years old now.

01:14:30.180 I have 100 months left to live, odds are, and carpe diem.

01:14:35.600 I don't want to suffer for those months.

01:14:40.820 Just for the record, you were doing this 10 years ago, so I don't think it's about your

01:14:45.220 100 months.

01:14:46.620 That's how you're built.

01:14:47.440 It was 200 months.

01:14:50.680 Well, Stossel, it's over between us.

01:14:53.720 Thank you for coming on.

01:14:54.940 Get out.

01:14:56.500 Okay.

01:14:57.220 Good to talk to you.

01:14:58.180 Bye.

01:15:00.180 Don't forget to tune in for our next episode because we're going to be joined by Thomas

01:15:07.700 Chatterton Williams.

01:15:09.700 Now, tell me who else in America has a bio like this.

01:15:12.740 He's a columnist for Harper's Magazine.

01:15:15.160 He's a contributing writer for New York Times Magazine.

01:15:18.720 And he's a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.

01:15:22.080 Those are two, I would say, significantly left-leaning media organizations.

01:15:27.040 And then AEI, which is where Mark Thiessen is, right?

01:15:29.840 This is definitely a conservative think tank.

01:15:31.720 But that's what's great about Thomas Chatterton Williams is he's not a hard partisan.

01:15:35.740 He's a thinker.

01:15:36.920 That's what he is.

01:15:37.580 He's a cultural critic and he's a big thinker.

01:15:39.920 And he had a big fight with Kirsten Powers, which is just one of the many reasons why I

01:15:44.040 love him.

01:15:44.780 And you will too.

01:15:46.020 Next time.

01:15:46.500 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

01:15:50.320 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:15:55.240 The Megyn Kelly Show is a Devil May Care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures.

01:15:59.940 I'll see you next time.

01:16:00.420 Let's see you next time.

01:16:01.120 Let's get to it.

01:16:02.780 Let's get to it.

01:16:03.820 We'll be right back.

The Megyn Kelly Show - March 22, 2021

John Stossel on Big Tech Censorship, COVID Fear, and Capitalism ｜ Ep. 79

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